or swing by your home depot and pick one of these up to save your back.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?keyword=hand+truck&onlineStore=true&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&marketID=401&locStoreNum=8125

Hand trucks are definitely the way to go if you are going to attempt to move a 100 lb+ sub yourself.

Hand truck...that is how they are called! LOL Well I sure did need a hand locomotive to move my latest sub....over 300lbs!

JL Fathoms.... portable boulders.

.... portable boulders.

This still has me laughing.

Got my F113 earlier this week to replace an MK V125. After placement and auto-calibration of the sub and receiver, it definitely digs deeper and with more authority than the old sub. But music sounds the same... I would like more punchy bass in music but am not getting it yet. The AVR set all speakers to large (except center) with x-over at 80Hz, but I changed them to small. The speakers actually sounded more punchy than the sub (Paradigm 60's), but didn't go as deep.

I've got no room treatments yet, but I'm working on that. I believe that will give me more of the punchy-ness. But until then, what can I do?

It's placed in the front-right corner about a foot from each wall. Should I place it right against the walls? Should I angle it to face the listening position, Should I slide it away from one of the walls (I can go about 3 feet in either direction)?

I played with the phase, but notice no audible difference at 0 vs 180. Doesn't the AVR set this by adjusting the distance to the listening position? Should I adjust the distance to actual measurements? I left the phase at 0.

I know this sub can do it because the authority it showed in the LFE.

does the Gotham really weigh 405 lbs. or is that a typo at the site?

http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?prod_id=370

srckkmack,

Music probably sounds about the same because you are not using content that goes below where the V125 left off. By the way, the V125 was one nice sub.

Furthermore, the midbass on the V125 may have a different voice than the F113. Try to make a comparison listening specifically for tonality between the two subs.

As for room treatments, I'm getting ready to do the same. What I'm doing is getting a computer together to do REW (room equalizer wizard) in order to find out what exactly my frequency response and decay time is doing. Can't fix something when you don't know what's broken. I would recommend that for you too. It'll also help you to figure out your phase issues. It really should sound different between 0 and 180 degrees.

Played around a little more tonight. WOW, I LOVE THIS SUB :D !!!

I tried different locations for the sub and ended up repositioning it away from the corner a little and skewed so the speaker faces the listening position (huff, puff, this thing's heavy). Then I recalibrated and ran it a little hot (~5db).

Oh man, this system is sounding better than ever. Played some Cream and never heard the bass guitar or kick-drum sound like this before. I didn't even have the system that loud (-16dB). The old sub could never be run this hot and sound so tight. I also played some Pink Floyd and heard some low tones I never knew existed... Cool!

This sub is amazing. Small and yet sounds great. I'm totally happy :cool: . Thank you JL for such an awesome sub!

i have purchased a pair of JL Audio f113 Fathoms after considerable research; including reading the last 20 pages of this thread. i should have them this coming week.

i will be using these 2 subs in a large dedicated 2-channel listening room (no video) in which i have added multi-channel hirez (SACD only for now). i was planning on only using the f113's for the LFE channel when doing multi-channel; since my front 2-channel speakers are rated -3db at 10hz (they have 2-15" powered subs per speaker).

my question is regarding the way the power switch works; according to the PDF of the f113 manual, when in 'Auto' mode the amp in the f113 will power down after 30 minutes of no signal. the problem is that when a driver is unpowered in a room it acts as resonator; sucking out energy at particular frequencies. in essence it becomes an additional bass trap. OTOH if some current is put to the driver it will hold stationary and not cause a loss of musical energy.

my specific question is; in 'AUTO' mode will there be any energy to the driver; or will i need to put it in 'on' position all the time if i want to have some power to the drivers?

i do plan on trying my best to integrate the two f113's into my 2-channel system; which would eliminate this concern. the subwoofer/woofers on my front two speakers have considerable adjustability and my preamp has lots of outputs. currently i have an extremely seamless sound and won't sacrifice any of that for a few additional SPL's of bass.

When is the F110 going to be released?

The amplifier will not turn on unless it receives signal in auto-mode, so it will have no damping effect on the drivers in this condition. I would recommend putting them in manual "On" mode if this is a concern (although I really don't think it will be an audible issue due to the high mass and tight box spring of the Fathoms, but it's up to you.)

I run a pair of f112's in my two-channel system and they are always on. I have them dialed in to the point that I would never listen to my mains without them. I hope you have a similar experience.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

i have purchased a pair of JL Audio f113 Fathoms after considerable research; including reading the last 20 pages of this thread. i should have them this coming week.

i will be using these 2 subs in a large dedicated 2-channel listening room (no video) in which i have added multi-channel hirez (SACD only for now). i was planning on only using the f113's for the LFE channel when doing multi-channel; since my front 2-channel speakers are rated -3db at 10hz (they have 2-15" powered subs per speaker).

my question is regarding the way the power switch works; according to the PDF of the f113 manual, when in 'Auto' mode the amp in the f113 will power down after 30 minutes of no signal. the problem is that when a driver is unpowered in a room it acts as resonator; sucking out energy at particular frequencies. in essence it becomes an additional bass trap. OTOH if some current is put to the driver it will hold stationary and not cause a loss of musical energy.

my specific question is; in 'AUTO' mode will there be any energy to the driver; or will i need to put it in 'on' position all the time if i want to have some power to the drivers?

i do plan on trying my best to integrate the two f113's into my 2-channel system; which would eliminate this concern. the subwoofer/woofers on my front two speakers have considerable adjustability and my preamp has lots of outputs. currently i have an extremely seamless sound and won't sacrifice any of that for a few additional SPL's of bass.

When is the F110 going to be released?

It looks like they will ship in the 4th quarter. :(

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

The amplifier will not turn on unless it receives signal in auto-mode, so it will have no damping effect on the drivers in this condition. I would recommend putting them in manual "On" mode if this is a concern (although I really don't think it will be an audible issue due to the high mass and tight box spring of the Fathoms, but it's up to you.)

I run a pair of f112's in my two-channel system and they are always on. I have them dialed in to the point that I would never listen to my mains without them. I hope you have a similar experience.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

thanks Manville.

your answer makes sense. i suppose i will just need to listen for myself both ways. i already keep my rear channel speaker amps powered when listening to 2 channel.....but they are ported and the mid/bass driver is ultralight ceramic....... just a bit diifferent from the W7 driver in the sealed box.

i do hope that i can fully integrate the Fathoms into the 2-channel. my room is designed fundamentally to support 'big bass' and it would be great to fully realize that.

it's great that you are here on this forum to support the product; i expect i may have more questions later.

best regards,

Mike Lavigne

Played around a little more tonight. WOW, I LOVE THIS SUB :D !!!

I also played some Pink Floyd and heard some low tones I never knew existed... Cool!
This sub is amazing. Small and yet sounds great. I'm totally happy :cool: . Thank you JL for such an awesome sub!

Were you by any chance listening to the "Echoes" cd by Pink Floyd? I was listening to Comfortably Numb at a comfortably numb volume the other day and all of a sudden I saw the woofers on my ATC signature 100s almost jump out of the cabinet. Didn't hear or feel anything but that's because the transients were at or below 20hz (I checked the cd using an RTA program that confirms this). I think that it was a mistake made during mastering but I imagine it's audible/palpable through a sub like the JLs. My F113 twins are still in the other room waiting for the basement to be redone so I haven't tried it with them in the loop.

i have purchased a pair of JL Audio f113 Fathoms after considerable research; including reading the last 20 pages of this thread. i should have them this coming week.

i will be using these 2 subs in a large dedicated 2-channel listening room (no video) in which i have added multi-channel hirez (SACD only for now). i was planning on only using the f113's for the LFE channel when doing multi-channel; since my front 2-channel speakers are rated -3db at 10hz (they have 2-15" powered subs per speaker).

.

Mike, congrats on the twins! (F113s that is ;) )

After seeing pictures of those ginormous speakers you have with their dual 15 active subs I can't imagine needing more bass - but you never know! I know you mentioned using the F113s as LFE, I expect you'll be pleasantly surprised. I have a pair of them too. I actually spoke with you on the phone about your Rives Level 3 room (Asher from Canada - in the process of getting my Rives Level 3 done).

I'll be interested in hearing how the bass from the F113s compares to the bass from your MM3s. :)

Asher

Mike, congrats on the twins! (F113s that is ;) )

After seeing pictures of those ginormous speakers you have with their dual 15 active subs I can't imagine needing more bass - but you never know! I know you mentioned using the F113s as LFE, I expect you'll be pleasantly surprised. I have a pair of them too. I actually spoke with you on the phone about your Rives Level 3 room (Asher from Canada - in the process of getting my Rives Level 3 done).

I'll be interested in hearing how the bass from the F113s compares to the bass from your MM3s. :)

Asher

Asher, thanks.....the more i read this thread (i'm up to about post #600 so far as well as the last 20 pages) the more excited i am about my 'twins'.....they are suppose to be delivered on Tuesday.

i do appreciate all those that have shared their perspectives; particularly those that have done the measurements and comparisons.

i do remember speaking to you on the phone; i would love to see some pics of your project.

i am trying to keep my expectations realistic; but if the Fathoms can add additional seamless bass performance to what i already have with the MM3's it will truely be something. as the room has so much bass trapping i would expect it to be ideal for whatever potential the Fathoms can dish out.

the MM3's have excellent bass adjustment tools. i have an RTA and plan to really see how far i can take it. if the Fathoms do work it would give me (4) 15" powered subwoofers plus the (2) f113's. currently what i value most with the bass performance in my room is the 'one-piece' coherence from below 20hz on up and the great bass texture and articulation. where i think the f113's can contribute is in the area of slam and added ease.

i had ordered the Von Schweikert VR-11SE's and then when they were delayed i fell in love with the MM3's. the VR11's are the most dynamic speaker i have ever heard; amazing grip and control. i do prefer the MM3's in every area BUT bass slam and grip.

if the f113's can add that to the MM3's.......i will be in heaven.

i am trying to stay calm. i have written three different 'first sentences' to this post that are all quite over the top.

upon further reflection; i'll give myself some wiggle room.

the subs arrived late tonite. 2 JL Audio f113 Fathom subwoofers arrived at 8pm via fedex ground. the driver, who delivers here enough that we know each other, asked me what those 'beasts' are? subwoofers; actually quite small but very heavy (130 pounds each). he kindly wheeled them inside the door to my barn and placed them on my 2 waiting piano dollys.

i went back inside the house to watch the Mariners beat the Cubs in 13 innings.

new subs, the Mariners win their 5th in a row on the road, every one in their last at bat. so far a very good nite.

i went back out to the barn; wheeled the subs into the room; about 45 minutes later both subs were unpacked and in place; behind my speakers on each side of the room. i only have connected one sub so far; as i am waiting for some additional long balanced cables so i can hook up both in both LFE and in 2-channel mode.

i quickly read thru the manual.....and do the simplist of set-ups.....for multi-channel only for tonite.

XLR input connected, polarity set to 0 degrees, phase at 0, E.L.F. at '0', LP Freq at 75, LP filter at 'off', master volume at mid-point, level mode 'variable', A.R.O. in 'defeat' mode.

i plug it in. no sound checks or level checks.

i put on the SACD of the Who's 'Tommy' in multi-channel mode. go to track 10......the 'Underture'.

a moment prior to the music starting, the room expands to maybe 200 feet wide. then everything is bigger, bolder, and with this level of authority that i only recall being approached by the VR11's. this is with zero setup of any kind and only a single sub.

after 'Underture' i play 'Pinball Wizard' and 'See Me, Feel Me'. i am really stunned. no bloat, no loosness, nuanced, delicate, and with effortless impact and sense of space and air. everthing is alive.

i think to myself that my room really likes these subs.....but can i get them to work and be coherent in the 2-channel?

next i grab the Newman, 'Music for Organ, Brass and Timpani' SACD, multi-channel. track 1 is a Strauss piece, track 2 is some Handel.

Holy ****!

then track 12, Mussorgsky's 'the Great Gate' from 'Pictures'.

OK, now i really lose it. and i simply cannot put this musical experience into words. the whole room is alive with this big church with 2 organs going 'warp 9' at each end.....i'm there. there are numerous musical events happening all around the room fully realized.

i've heard big organs in churches; that is what they sound like...the whole deal. spooky.

now i'm listening to the MTT of Mahler 3rd. the effects are overall more subtle......but the magic is there in spades. and i'm in San Francisco.

the only bad thing is that i have a Sales Meeting in the morning at 7:30am......it's 12:35am and i guess it's time to get some sleep.

Now you got me excited, I have a pair of twins, 113's that is, on the way this Thursday or Friday. I can't wait!

Mike,

Thanks for the mini review. I look forward to hearing more when you come back to earth. ;-)

I listened to a F113 last night. For movies, this sub is a no-brianer. For music, I am not convinced yet. I don't know if it is fast enough. When I listened last night, the F113 seemed to integrate seemlessly with some tracks, but not with others. It seemed to linger just a tad on fast passages.

Admitedly, I took only a few minutes to adjust the sub by ear, so I look forward to your comments about music when you have your system setup.

Regards,
Darrell


i put on the SACD of the Who's 'Tommy' in multi-channel mode. go to track 10......the 'Underture'.

after 'Underture' i play 'Pinball Wizard' and 'See Me, Feel Me'. i am really stunned. no bloat, no loosness, nuanced, delicate, and with effortless impact and sense of space and air. everthing is alive.

Once you really get it dialed in in terms of level, polarity, phase and e.l.f. trim it will integrate very seamlessly. This can take some time to accomplish, but ultimately will net you a very impressive result. I spent a few hours getting my twin f112's dialed in and it really made a difference compared to the rough setup.

the subs arrived late tonite. 2 JL Audio f113 Fathom subwoofers arrived at 8pm via fedex ground.

From whom did you buy them?

glennQ

Yes.... Where are everyone getting their Fathoms from ? I have one dealer in my area and their price is just about the worst I have heard mentioned. :eek:

Wohoo my JL 1000.1 amp finally arrived and what a beast it is(pic (http://ded.zenblue.net/13W7/JL%20Audio%201000.1%20Monoblock.jpg)) cant wait to hear how it sounds pushing my 13W7 sub ;)

Yes.... Where are everyone getting their Fathoms from ? I have one dealer in my area and their price is just about the worst I have heard mentioned. :eek:

I am in the Dallas area and best I could get was 10% when I purchased 2. I had been a Tweeter customer for many years and now I have no buyer history with anyone local to cut me a deal. :(

The level of quality for the price is simply second to none with the JL Audio home subs.

I have my dual f113's working with my TC Sounds monster and all I can say is...woha people WOHA. Bass so limitless and uncolored...amazing.

The giant smile I have since the day my first f113 arrived home is still intact...and cannot be erased,plus JL Audio service...five star all the way.

:)

The level of quality for the price is simply second to none with the JL Audio home subs.

I have my dual f113's working with my TC Sounds monster and all I can say is...woha people WOHA. Bass so limitless and uncolored...amazing.

The giant smile I have since the day my first f113 arrived home is still intact...and cannot be erased,plus JL Audio service...five star all the way.

:)

I would have to agree. I am very slow to upgrade my system. When I was single that was different, but now I have no choice. When my M&K MX5000THX MKII lost it's ability to play with more that a "little bit" of sound, I knew that watching movies was not the same. I really didn't even want to sit in my home theater anymore. Recently, I checked to see what the hottest sub was. I called around for an audition of the JLs. After I had hear just one, I did not think twice. Now that they are set up, all I can say is...

I HAD NO IDEA HOMETHEATER SUBS COULD SOUND THIS GOOD!

No really. Having spent almost $3K for the M&K, I thought I knew what High End was. I was wrong. I am truly amazed. I also have an old Clark Synthesis Transducer (got it back when they were clear plastic). It has lost much of it's punch over the years. I confirmed this with a Clark Rep. As the plastic ages, the power decreases. I do remember when I 1st installed the Tactical Tansducer and the JL's do what it used to. It can shake my couch with true authority.

Also worth mentioning:

Spend a lot of time during your set up. The reward will be unbelievable.

OMG, just reading though the forums tonight and I found the M&K Fix. I honestly had though of the same thing a while back but did not turn the dials back and forth 50 times. All I can say is Soundoctor (Barry), I LOVE YOU!! This fixed WORKED. I was able to do something that I never though would ever happen. I got to A/B test the MX5000 to the 2 JL 113 subs. (well, only for about 30 mins so far, wife wants to sleep). With the little testing I did, I would like to change a comment. The MX5000THX was not bad at all. It actually sounds better than I remember. Yes the JLs have much deeper bass, but I have should not have said that the M&K did not come close to high end. I am so happy. Thank god for AVSForum and folks like Barry.

Were you by any chance listening to the "Echoes" cd by Pink Floyd? I was listening to Comfortably Numb at a comfortably numb volume the other day and all of a sudden I saw the woofers on my ATC signature 100s almost jump out of the cabinet. Didn't hear or feel anything but that's because the transients were at or below 20hz (I checked the cd using an RTA program that confirms this). I think that it was a mistake made during mastering but I imagine it's audible/palpable through a sub like the JLs. My F113 twins are still in the other room waiting for the basement to be redone so I haven't tried it with them in the loop.
Sorry about the delayed response, but yes, I believe this was what I was listening to. I don't have the CD; I was listening to a digital music channel on cable. I believe it was at the end of the song that I heard it clearly and constant. I had my previous sub for 10 years and never heard it before.

This sub is amazing. It's like I have a new system. It has improved my system that much. I thought my speakers may have been too bright, or the receiver not warm enough, or the large room needed treatments, but the F113 was the ticket. It brings balance to my system. I'll probably still treat the room, but no hurry now. The system now sounds so sweet :D !

How can someone use the f113 in 230v? I saw the question asked before during a search but did not find an answer... with a power converter would I be just be asking for trouble if it is a 120v unit and then you take to Europe??

EDIT: can you use it in both 120v and 230v or you have to buy the right model?



If anyone has a slightly used / demo or otherwise great deal on the f113 please let me know as I have a very limited budget but would definately like to join the club....

Thanks,
Nikos

the f113 is available in 230v

OMG, just reading though the forums tonight and I found the M&K Fix. I honestly had though of the same thing a while back but did not turn the dials back and forth 50 times. All I can say is Soundoctor (Barry), I LOVE YOU!! This fixed WORKED. I was able to do something that I never though would ever happen. I got to A/B test the MX5000 to the 2 JL 113 subs. (well, only for about 30 mins so far, wife wants to sleep). With the little testing I did, I would like to change a comment. The MX5000THX was not bad at all. It actually sounds better than I remember. Yes the JLs have much deeper bass, but I have should not have said that the M&K did not come close to high end. I am so happy. Thank god for AVSForum and folks like Barry.

thxman,
You're welcome!
I'm always here to help everyone.
Barry

From whom did you buy them?

glennQ

you have a PM.

Mike

This may be a question for msmith_JL but I wanted to make sure I didn't misread some previous posts. I called one of my local dealers in Houston and asked about getting an in home demo and he said they didn't offer that. Although they would be happy to bring one out at $125 an hour. What's up with that? Is there maybe a local rep that could help me out? I have heard the sub in store but in home is always a different story. Thanks for any input.

I recommend finding a dealer who will let you buy it with a 30 day no questions return policy. Over the years I've paid a bit more for stuff, just to have such privileges.

Manville,

I am mostly concerned with music. Would you consider the F112 or F113 more musical. I am looking to match up with 802D main speakers. I will probably use my SMS-1 to EQ the setup.

Regards,
Darrell


Once you really get it dialed in in terms of level, polarity, phase and e.l.f. trim it will integrate very seamlessly. This can take some time to accomplish, but ultimately will net you a very impressive result. I spent a few hours getting my twin f112's dialed in and it really made a difference compared to the rough setup.

This may be a question for msmith_JL but I wanted to make sure I didn't misread some previous posts. I called one of my local dealers in Houston and asked about getting an in home demo and he said they didn't offer that. Although they would be happy to bring one out at $125 an hour. What's up with that? Is there maybe a local rep that could help me out? I have heard the sub in store but in home is always a different story. Thanks for any input.

Each dealer is free to have his own policies in this regard. Some dealers are totally willing to loan a product for an in-home demo... others aren't. Drop me an e-mail on Monday and I will get you the phone number for our Texas rep to see if we can arrange something. Email me at msmith "at" jlaudio.com

Manville,

I am mostly concerned with music. Would you consider the F112 or F113 more musical. I am looking to match up with 802D main speakers. I will probably use my SMS-1 to EQ the setup.

Regards,
Darrell

They are both outstanding, Darrell. I chose the f112's for my system because my mains are true satellites not intended to play below 80 Hz and I really like the f112's better high-frequency extension for this situation. You're not giving up any real bottom end with the f112's, just maximum output capability. In fact, in my room I dialed the e.l.f. trim back to -3dB because the extreme low end was a bit much. Besides, I'm pretty sure that with twin f112's you will have enough output capability to exceed your main speakers' dynamic envelope so the extra oomph of the f113's would only come into play if you chose to deliberately run the subs "hot" on occasion.

With the 802D's, you really could go either way... but I would choose the f112's.

This will also save enough money to get a really good active crossover, which is a must for a two-channel setup.

I know I saw this question here before, but I cant seem to locate it; How do you reset the sub, so that the ARO settings are no longer in memory? When I first got the subs, i used the aro on the master just to see how well it worked, and now I cant get it to turn off permanently. I use the defeat button, but it too resets to active if I blow a fuse. I am going to get a dedicated circuit to the subs soon, but I wanted to get the aro settings out of memory reguardless.

[The f112 and f113] are both outstanding, Darrell. I chose the f112's for my system because my mains are true satellites not intended to play below 80 Hz and I really like the f112's better high-frequency extension for this situation. You're not giving up any real bottom end with the f112's, just maximum output capability.


Good to know. Thanks Manville.


glennQ

...my mains are true satellites...

Hey Manville... By chance, are you using some of those JL Audio satellites you teased us with at CEDIA last year?
...if those things pack the performance value the subs deliver... :drool:

glennQ

Thanks Manville,

I wasn't aware of the F112's better high frequency extension. This is good to know.

I chose the f112's for my system because my mains are true satellites not intended to play below 80 Hz and I really like the f112's better high-frequency extension for this situation. You're not giving up any real bottom end with the f112's, just maximum output capability.

With the 802D's, you really could go either way... but I would choose the f112's.

Hey Manville... By chance, are you using some of those JL Audio satellites you teased us with at CEDIA last year?
...if those things pack the performance value the subs deliver... :drool:

glennQ

No, but I wish they were. :D

They're just some Frankenspeakers I built a few years ago.

Do people with carpet need spikes, or is this sub so heavy that spikes are irrelevant? I see other large sub makers who include spikes, so I am guessing there is no clear answer.

Any thoughts though?

No carpet spikes needed. I actually think if they had them, they'd pierce the floor and I'd never get that thing back up.

Do people with carpet need spikes, or is this sub so heavy that spikes are irrelevant? I see other large sub makers who include spikes, so I am guessing there is no clear answer.

Any thoughts though?

Spikes are still useful because it saves your carpet from being flattened by the heavy sub.

Warp,

The sub does have good sized rubber feet which keeps the body of the sub off the carpet. I am just curious if it would sound better with spikes. I'm not worried about the carpet. :p

Spikes are not needed. The feet are designed for hard floors or carpet.

MY F113 arrived today and I just got back from the chiropractor(lol)...............damm that thing is heavy. Thanks mjaudio for helping me drag it in. It's not dialed in yet but during the Velodyne SMS self eq. test the DVD's on the wall starting falling off left and right. DAMM.

the DVD's on the wall starting falling off left and right. DAMM.

i hate when that happens :D

I have the dual f112s and 802ds and love them great for music and movies.

MY F113 arrived today and I just got back from the chiropractor(lol)...............damm that thing is heavy. Thanks mjaudio for helping me drag it in. It's not dialed in yet but during the Velodyne SMS self eq. test the DVD's on the wall starting falling off left and right. DAMM.

My arms are still sore and I think I perforated an eardrum from the SMS-1 self eq...... :eek:

That was too funny when the DVD's started falling off the shelf......... the crazy thing is I know you loved it :rolleyes:

Theres no need for bass shakers now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

Enjoy you lucky bastard

BadBenz,

I don't know if this is true for you, but I hated the way the sms-1 auto eq set up my pair of 113's. When I told my brother this, who has a a smallish room with two ACI Maestos and a SMS, he declared that the sms does not auto calibrate well with powerful subs, so I manually dialed it in and they sound great now. As a side, i did feel the aro did a really good job of smoothing out the sub on its own, I just like the increased flexibility the sms adds.

Thanks dynomike I just didn't have the patience or energy anymore to set it up. I would agree with you and when I have more time I will manually dial the subs in.

Mr. Mjaudio now that you heard the F113 when do you pick yours up? I know you ordered it on the way home, didn't you!!!!!!!

Mr. Mjaudio now that you heard the F113 when do you pick yours up? I know you ordered it on the way home, didn't you!!!!!!!

Aren't you going on vacation soon :rolleyes: I will be right over with a crane to pick it up :D

I have to admit that I will get one soon........ you know me too well and when I get curious I tend to spend money.

I just have to start securing all the loose items around the house prior to it's arrival.

Maybe this week it will be here........hehehehe

I guess that means Wednesday MJ

They are both outstanding, Darrell. I chose the f112's for my system because my mains are true satellites not intended to play below 80 Hz and I really like the f112's better high-frequency extension for this situation. You're not giving up any real bottom end with the f112's, just maximum output capability. In fact, in my room I dialed the e.l.f. trim back to -3dB because the extreme low end was a bit much. Besides, I'm pretty sure that with twin f112's you will have enough output capability to exceed your main speakers' dynamic envelope so the extra oomph of the f113's would only come into play if you chose to deliberately run the subs "hot" on occasion.

With the 802D's, you really could go either way... but I would choose the f112's.

This will also save enough money to get a really good active crossover, which is a must for a two-channel setup.


Manville, I like to run my subs a little hot but will not blast much, but I want deep low end. I definitely want a pair of subs. By saying that the F112's have a "better high frequency extension" does that mean up high near 80hz they will be a little more articulate than the F113 ? Do you feel the F112 is a bit more well rounded because of that extra extension ?

The f112's high-freq. extension advantage only comes into play when using smaller mains or true satellites that begin rolling off in the 60-80 Hz range. The flatter output above 100 Hz that the f112 has allows for a smoother transition to these kinds of speakers, which does translate to better articulation and integration.

With larger mains that extend deeper, the f113 can be integrated just as well (and it will also integrate well with smaller mains, just not quite as easily as the f112).

This is all splitting hairs and great results can be achieved with either sub, so don't get too freaked out about it.

Mixdoctor, I can tell you I have my f113 integrated seamlessly with my DefTech SM450's which are bookshelf speakers and it's awesome. If I did it over, I'd have a tough time deciding between twin f112's or a single f113. Of course, I'd like twin f113's, but my wife might start to question my sanity. :)

Does anyone know the distortion measurement of the F112 (THD)? I don't see it on the spec sheet.

Here's a great review of the F112 including some distortion measurements:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/jl-audio-fathom-f112-subwoofer-review/fathom-f112-measurements.html

I have an F112 myself. It is a fantastic subwoofer.

Xcjago,

Thanks for the link. I see the sub was measured at 5.2% to 9.9% distortion. Another sub I am considreing list 0.24% THD for its distortion. Surely I am not comparing apples to apples. Does the F112 have a THD for an apples to apples comparision?

Thanks,
Darrell

Darrell,

0.24% at what output level?

I don't know if this is true for you, but I hated the way the sms-1 auto eq set up my pair of 113's. When I told my brother this, who has a a smallish room with two ACI Maestos and a SMS, he declared that the sms does not auto calibrate well with powerful subs, so I manually dialed it in and they sound great now. As a side, i did feel the aro did a really good job of smoothing out the sub on its own, I just like the increased flexibility the sms adds.The SMS-1 does an inferior job with Auto-EQ with any sub compared to a manual EQ. One glaring reason is that the Auto-EQ uses the fixed frequency settings of the default which are extremely unlikely to be optimum for any sub+room. The manual EQ lets you set the frequency and Q to more appropriate values for the specific setup.

I am really thinking of getting a Fathom.....man you guys are a bad influence.

I am just hoping it can fill my 4000+ cubic sq ft room. It is replacing a SVS PB12/2.

MY F113 arrived today and I just got back from the chiropractor(lol)...............damm that thing is heavy. Thanks mjaudio for helping me drag it in. It's not dialed in yet but during the Velodyne SMS self eq. test the DVD's on the wall starting falling off left and right. DAMM.

Hey Badbenzz;
You know I will never forgive you for buying this woofer since I will have to do the same now; but I will ROTHLMAO when you tell us you just HAD to buy a 2nd one to replace those old and slow 15"'s of yours!
Now you really won't be able to tell if your house is shaking from the JL's or The Big One... :D
BP

BP I hope you don't make me eat my words but I now have more bass than I ever need. Frankly, it is rather scary how much bass the F113 puts out. Was watching U571 and practically wet myself. So yes, it's time you get rid of those old and worn 5150's and step into the light. I'll send you a box of depends when you get the F113, and case if you get 2 of them.

BP I hope you don't make me eat my words but I now have more bass than I ever need. Frankly, it is rather scary how much bass the F113 puts out. Was watching U571 and practically wet myself. So yes, it's time you get rid of those old and worn 5150's and step into the light. I'll send you a box of depends when you get the F113, and case if you get 2 of them.

ENOUGH BASS!!!!!!!! Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I am really thinking of getting a Fathom.....man you guys are a bad influence.

I am just hoping it can fill my 4000+ cubic sq ft room. It is replacing a SVS PB12/2.
No problem. My room is 4000+ and the F113 has no problem. From what I hear, the SVS PB12/2 is no slouch either.

Xcjago,

Thanks for the link. I see the sub was measured at 5.2% to 9.9% distortion. Another sub I am considreing list 0.24% THD for its distortion. Surely I am not comparing apples to apples. Does the F112 have a THD for an apples to apples comparision?

Thanks,
Darrell


Yep, without output levels like msmith_JL said and frequency, that number is meaningless. It could refer to the thd of the amp and not the entire sub. Even then, it doesn't tell us much.

mjaudio just because your a bass head doesn't mean everyone is............humm where do I put a 2nd F113?

mjaudio just because your a bass head doesn't mean everyone is............humm where do I put a 2nd F113?

BASS HEAD.............. HAAAAAAAAA! oh wait, your right :D More bass please!!

PS: My new F113 is breaking in as we speak....... got it last night....... hehehehehe

Here is a picture of my neighbors when I turned it up: :eek:

There's allot more new F113 owners than ever, how about some pics guys!

Make things interesting..Let the F113 lovefest begin :)

Thanks

Djoel

I just joined the F113 owners group...

I'll probably not see the sub for a week or so...but its purchased :)

Nikos

Welcome :D

Another sub I am considreing [claims] 0.24% THD...

0.24% at what output level?

At idle probably. Lol :p
Either that is a typo and should read 24%... or maybe that is the THD spec for the internal amp? :confused:
Most people would call 10% a low amount of distortion when referring to the bottom octave and a half...


glennQ

No discernable difference but Blue Jeans has a nice Belden/Neutrik XLR at a reasonable price (I have used both). Spending that much for subs, why cheap out on the cables.


Now that the sub is on the way... I got to worry about cable(s)...

My Rotel 1057 doesnt have XLR...

What kind of wiring do you use to find the sweet spot for the sub?

I would like to keep the wire I order as short as possible for obvious reasons...

What do you guys use?? Suggestions please...

Thanks again!

Nikos

I ran 35 feet single ended BlueJeans/Belden. f113 Anthem AVM-20; no problem.

I myself have about 5 different sub cables from audioquest, monster, harmonic tech and a few others and have never really noticed a difference.

I am actually using a xlr cable I got from a ebay seller who uses Canare with Neutrik ends. It was only about $41 for a 40 foot run and he does RCA as well. The cables are well made and he can make fancier ones as well if you like but of course they cost more.

His ebay ID is: heels-6

His name is John, he is a really nice guy and honest too. If you want his e-mail address just PM me as I don't want to post someones else's e-mail in a forum or you can contact him through ebay.

For the length that most people need for subs it can get expensive fast. I can tell a difference with the IC's from my pre-amp to amp but have never noticed much from pre-amp to sub. It could be that I use the Velodyne SMS-1 to eq my sub so any differences in IC's could be corrected using the SMS?

I would like to keep the wire I order as short as possible for obvious reasons...
What do you guys use?? Suggestions please...
Nikos

My new 113 continues to rest unopened in a garage while I apply extra elbow grease trying to finish the room the rig is going in. Somewhere in the chaos of my utility room is an old el cheapo 20' Radio Shack cable. When the time comes, I'll use that to figure out my sub placement, rather than order anything better in advance and limit myself placement-wise by a run that's too short (or too long). When I figure out where the new home for the 113 is going to be, I'll probably just order Blue Jean cable to fit the run.

Well I have moved my JL 113 all around the room, and just can't get it to work good. I have taken advice from many of you, and nothing seems to work. I think it is an issue of the room and the sub.

So I am going to sell it and go on to something else, I am still waiting for my dealer to come over and tweak it, and see if he can get it to perform. I miss the room shaking bass from my old SVS.

A very sad day, as I had high hopes for this beast. Any last ideas?

A very sad day, as I had high hopes for this beast. Any last ideas?
Yeah...bring it over to my house so I can check it out for you! :)

Well I have moved my JL 113 all around the room, and just can't get it to work good. I have taken advice from many of you, and nothing seems to work. I think it is an issue of the room and the sub.

So I am going to sell it and go on to something else, I am still waiting for my dealer to come over and tweak it, and see if he can get it to perform. I miss the room shaking bass from my old SVS.

A very sad day, as I had high hopes for this beast. Any last ideas?

What problems are you having with it? I can't find your post describing the problem.

Here's some good guidelines if you haven't tried some of these:

As you might suppose, a subwoofer and your particular room work together. It's not just the location of the subwoofer that matters: where you place the sofa and chairs is just as important. Here are some basics to consiser:

The most difficult room shape is square, so if you have the flexibility to choose which room you'll use for home theater or you are building a new home and designating a space for home theater, avoid rooms with equal dimensions.

As you move the subwoofer closer to a wall, the bass output will become stronger.
Bass output will be maximized as you push the subwoofer into a corner.
The closer you sit to a wall, the more pressure your ear will pick up and the greater the bass intensity will be, but it may become uneven-- alternately boomy or anemic as you move in either direction.
Adjusting the distance of the couch or chairs relative to the walls and/or the subwoofer relative to the corner will almost always be beneficial in helping smooth out the deep bass heard at several listening locations in the room.
Adding a second subwoofer won't cure the problem of standing waves or uneven bass, but it will result in a greater number of listeners hearing smoother overall bass in more locations. Try placing the second subwoofer in a location near the wall opposite the first subwoofer.

Avoid rooms with concrete floors and walls. Walls where the wallboard flexes are more absorptive and produce fewer problems with "bass boom." If you can' t avoid concrete walls, add studs and one layer of wallboard to the walls of the room to further aid absorption.

Move your subwoofer as close as you can to where you sit. If it's a chair, move the chair aside and place the sub in the spot where the chair was. If it's a couch, slide the couch temporarily out of the way and put the sub about where you usually sit.

Play a DVD with lots of low-frequency effects or a CD with plenty of deep bass, the kind that really kicks your sub into serious bass output. Get out the kneepads and crawl about the room in the general area where you were thinking of locating the sub.

Go several yards in each direction--near the wall, out from the wall, towards a corner, away from the corner, and so on--while you listen for smooth and extended deep bass response, free of exaggeration and "one-note" boom. Mark the spot, then move the subwoofer into that position. Now put the furniture back. If you are using two subwoofers, mark two locations and place the subs in those two positions.

Or sell your house and keep the Fathom.

Here's some good guidelines if you haven't tried some of these:

As you might suppose, a subwoofer and your particular room work together. It's not just the location of the subwoofer that matters: where you place the sofa and chairs is just as important. Here are some basics to consiser:

The most difficult room shape is square, so if you have the flexibility to choose which room you'll use for home theater or you are building a new home and designating a space for home theater, avoid rooms with equal dimensions.

As you move the subwoofer closer to a wall, the bass output will become stronger.
Bass output will be maximized as you push the subwoofer into a corner.
The closer you sit to a wall, the more pressure your ear will pick up and the greater the bass intensity will be, but it may become uneven-- alternately boomy or anemic as you move in either direction.
Adjusting the distance of the couch or chairs relative to the walls and/or the subwoofer relative to the corner will almost always be beneficial in helping smooth out the deep bass heard at several listening locations in the room.
Adding a second subwoofer won't cure the problem of standing waves or uneven bass, but it will result in a greater number of listeners hearing smoother overall bass in more locations. Try placing the second subwoofer in a location near the wall opposite the first subwoofer.

Avoid rooms with concrete floors and walls. Walls where the wallboard flexes are more absorptive and produce fewer problems with "bass boom." If you can' t avoid concrete walls, add studs and one layer of wallboard to the walls of the room to further aid absorption.

Move your subwoofer as close as you can to where you sit. If it's a chair, move the chair aside and place the sub in the spot where the chair was. If it's a couch, slide the couch temporarily out of the way and put the sub about where you usually sit.

Play a DVD with lots of low-frequency effects or a CD with plenty of deep bass, the kind that really kicks your sub into serious bass output. Get out the kneepads and crawl about the room in the general area where you were thinking of locating the sub.

Go several yards in each direction--near the wall, out from the wall, towards a corner, away from the corner, and so on--while you listen for smooth and extended deep bass response, free of exaggeration and "one-note" boom. Mark the spot, then move the subwoofer into that position. Now put the furniture back. If you are using two subwoofers, mark two locations and place the subs in those two positions.

Or sell your house and keep the Fathom.

I am getting very little bass out of this, and when it gets loud the sub starts to distort.

AudioArchitect is going to come over and take a look at it for me, I hope he can work some magic, or tell me I have a bum unit.

Michael

Michael,

Have you connected another subwoofer to your current configuration?

I am sorry you are having this problem. Perhaps it's a defective Fathom or if I recall you were having an issue with the D2 about a month ago? I don't know if the SVS was connected to your current setup or not. I know you've made a lot of changes in the past 3-4 months.

Matt will figure it out. He's a ace!!!

Charles

I am getting very little bass out of this, and when it gets loud the sub starts to distort.

AudioArchitect is going to come over and take a look at it for me, I hope he can work some magic, or tell me I have a bum unit.

Michael

One rather easy test you could do to discern if it's actually the sub or something (anything ) else upstream is to plug a CD player (or the LR analog outs of a DVD player of course...) right into the sub's RCA inputs.

MAKE SURE you start with the level mode switch on variable and the volume all the way down. You could start with the filters in the same position you are going to use them with your Anthem, then try the filter at 24 and the freq control all he way up, and finally the filter control off.

If the driver isn't blasting and your walls aren't shaking (don't annoy the san andreas fault) then there is certainly a possibility that it's the sub.

Make sure you are not just listening to everything (your whole system) in the room without making any adjustments, because there certainly exists the possibility that you have the bass from the sub out of phase with the bass fom your satellites, and that a fair amount of cancellation MIGHT be taking place.

Barry

I am getting very little bass out of this, and when it gets loud the sub starts to distort.

AudioArchitect is going to come over and take a look at it for me, I hope he can work some magic, or tell me I have a bum unit.

Michael

Is there no position in your room that sounds better? Did you try toeing the sub into the room? I had some serious cancellations in my square room. Room treatments helped as well.

Michael,

Have you connected another subwoofer to your current configuration?

I am sorry you are having this problem. Perhaps it's a defective Fathom or if I recall you were having an issue with the D2 about a month ago? I don't know if the SVS was connected to your current setup or not. I know you've made a lot of changes in the past 3-4 months.

Matt will figure it out. He's a ace!!!

Charles


Thanks for all the advice. I am leaving town, so will not have time to play with it.

AudioArchitect is going to make it to my house on Sunday to play with it, or I will go down a kidnap him, and hold him hostage tell he gets it set up. Watch him walk in and flip a switch and make it rock my house.

Michael

Thanks for all the advice. I am leaving town, so will not have time to play with it.

AudioArchitect is going to make it to my house on Sunday to play with it, or I will go down a kidnap him, and hold him hostage tell he gets it set up. Watch him walk in and flip a switch and make it rock my house.
Michael

Yes, that would be the ON switch. :p

After placing my order about a month ago, the sub got delivered Monday. Unfortunately I have what appears to be a ground loop as there is a noticeable hum coming from the sub. It's on a different circuit from the rest of my home theater gear. Without knowing what the AC current draw is at the subs various states (idle, full output), I can't determine if I have capacity to put it on a dedicated line with some of my source gear. My local dealer has a call in to JL to get the info, and apparently the nat'l sales manager was surprised that info wasn't published and was going to look into it.

My other option is to use a cheater plug to lift the ground, which is what I'll do. My dealer asked if that would be OK and was told yes, which is funny in a way considering the power cord has a warning on it saying that the ground must remain intact. I suspect it has something to do with the ETL approval.

So if anybody else suspects a ground loop, try a cheater to see if that fixes it.

Have you tried the “Grounded / Isolated” switch on the back?

Originally Posted by AnthemAVM
Thanks for all the advice. I am leaving town, so will not have time to play with it.

AudioArchitect is going to make it to my house on Sunday to play with it, or I will go down a kidnap him, and hold him hostage tell he gets it set up. Watch him walk in and flip a switch and make it rock my house.
Michael
Is the Master/Slave switch set to Master?

Have you tried the “Grounded / Isolated” switch on the back?
If memory serves me that switch only affects the sub if you're using single ended cables, and I'm running a balanced one from my processor to the sub. The cheater plug did work though, so it's nice and quite now.

Originally Posted by Minardi2
If memory serves me that switch only affects the sub if you're using single ended cables...
Agreed; still wouldn't hurt to give it a try.

Check the polarity of the outlet, or compare the polarity of the two circuits. It may be wired backwards, or you can reverse one. Check the polarity of other outlets on the same circuits. Any light dimmers, florescent lamps on the circuits?

The cheater should be temporary until you find the problem. Don't lose the ground for your sub.

They are both outstanding, Darrell. I chose the f112's for my system because my mains are true satellites not intended to play below 80 Hz and I really like the f112's better high-frequency extension for this situation. You're not giving up any real bottom end with the f112's, just maximum output capability. In fact, in my room I dialed the e.l.f. trim back to -3dB because the extreme low end was a bit much. Besides, I'm pretty sure that with twin f112's you will have enough output capability to exceed your main speakers' dynamic envelope so the extra oomph of the f113's would only come into play if you chose to deliberately run the subs "hot" on occasion.

With the 802D's, you really could go either way... but I would choose the f112's.

This will also save enough money to get a really good active crossover, which is a must for a two-channel setup.
This is a very interesting post.
I am in the process of ordering a 240v F112 to be shipped here in old England, to be used 98% for music in the following rig:
Resolution Audio Opus 21>Minimax tube preamp>Nuforce Ref9 SE v2 monoblocs>Gallo Ref3 II
My speakers start to roll off at 40hz. My room is about 19x15x8 and I am in the process of doing an intensive room treatment. I might later on go for a dual F112 configuration.
My aim is to perfectly integrate the sub for stereo listening (and the odd movie as well). I own a Behringer DEQ 2496 for RTA and eventually PEQ
Could you please develop you findings about use of active cross over; also would you recommend a specific model; finally which frequency of cross over would you recommend me?

Viclondon,

I happen to use a JBL Professional M552 active crossover, because I had it already. It is a very clean piece of equipment and uses 24dB/octave Linkwitz Riley filters. My system is crossed over at 90 Hz. Even though the front panel is marked 180-2kHz, there is a "divide by 10" switch on the back of the unit to convert that range to 18-200 Hz which is perfect for subwoofer use. In your application, another nice benefit is that the JBL offers a summing function for a single subwoofer, which will save you a cable run.
http://www.jblpro.com/pages/electronics/mseries.htm#M552

I can't recommend a crossover frequency without listening to your setup, but I can tell you that the f112 allows you to cross over higher than most other subwoofers without losing integration. The higher you cross over, the better your system's dynamics will be so it is a balancing act between integration and dynamic capability. I would start at 80 Hz.

I have also had good experiences working with Rane crossovers like the AC22B, although it will only go down to 70 Hz, so this may be an issue in some systems.

AudioControl also makes an interesting piece called "The Richter Scale" which is a combination crossover/eq/analyzer for subwoofer systems.
http://www.hometheateraudiocontrol.com/product.asp?Product_Id=171119&d_Id=16463&l1=16158&l2=16463

I am not a big fan of Alesis equipment and I don't have much experience with Behringer's offerings.

I fully realize that breaching your tube system with pro gear might seem blasphemous, but if you want something that preserves the tube qualities your system already produces you probably want a super clean piece of solid state gear as your crossover.

Hope that helps,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Manville,
thanks for your reply.
Actually my question was extremely basic because I don't know what would be the benefit of an external cross-over with a F122. Is it to replace the cross-over built into the subwoof or to give a more precise frequency cut, or what other reason?

Are you guys running these with the front grills on or off?

Do the grills change the sound?

Manville,
thanks for your reply.
Actually my question was extremely basic because I don't know what would be the benefit of an external cross-over with a F122. Is it to replace the cross-over built into the subwoof or to give a more precise frequency cut, or what other reason?

Sorry, Vic... the purpose of the active crossover is to provide high-pass filtering to the amplifier channels driving the main speakers. The f112 only has a low-pass filter for its own amplifier. If you are using a home theater receiver or processor this function is generally handled at that level, but in a good ol' 2-channel setup you need the external active crossover.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Are you guys running these with the front grills on or off?

Do the grills change the sound?

I run mine with grilles on 99.99% of the time. Removing grilles is only necessary when you run the Fathoms at anti-social levels as they have a tendency to work themselves loose after repeated Darla scenes from Finding Nemo at "+11". :D

I run mine with grilles on 99.99% of the time. Removing grilles is only necessary when you run the Fathoms at anti-social levels as they have a tendency to work themselves loose after repeated Darla scenes from Finding Nemo at "+11". :D


Hey, Manville, let's start a rumor about Spinal Tap using banks of F113's on their reunion tour...

Barry

Are you guys running these with the front grills on or off?

IMO the Fathom looks better without the grill in place... Besides, aren't grills are only to please the wife, and keep the kids from touching? ;) I have neither.


glennQ

Hey, Manville, let's start a rumor about Spinal Tap using banks of F113's on their reunion tour...

Barry
Barry, that was the corniest and most outdated post referencing Spinal Tap I have read in along time. Perhaps get a life? Hm?

Barry, that was the corniest and most outdated post referencing Spinal Tap I have read in along time. Perhaps get a life? Hm?

Nice first post. Barry was going for harmless humour. He also seems to have a life. You might want to follow your own advice. :rolleyes:

There is never a "Kick em in the nads" icon when you really need it...

Barry, that was the corniest and most outdated post referencing Spinal Tap I have read in along time. Perhaps get a life? Hm?

There is never a "Kick em in the nads" icon when you really need it...
Geez fellas, relax...that was a line in This Is Spinal Tap. Chill pill perhaps?

Here, take a look.
http://liveearth.msn.com/le/video
click on the spinal tap link and you'll see Rob reiners NEW short about it...

So from this feedback, I gather it is ok to use the grills, but why bother if you are a single guy without a wife to appease. :D

I run mine with grilles on 99.99% of the time. Removing grilles is only necessary when you run the Fathoms at anti-social levels as they have a tendency to work themselves loose after repeated Darla scenes from Finding Nemo at "+11". :D

IMO the Fathom looks better without the grill in place... Besides, aren't grills are only to please the wife, and keep the kids from touching? I have neither.

glennQ

I'll opt for the Ignore Button. No pills required. CLICK!

Geez fellas, relax...that was a line in This Is Spinal Tap. Chill pill perhaps?

Sorry, Vic... the purpose of the active crossover is to provide high-pass filtering to the amplifier channels driving the main speakers. The f112 only has a low-pass filter for its own amplifier. If you are using a home theater receiver or processor this function is generally handled at that level, but in a good ol' 2-channel setup you need the external active crossover.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Thanks Manville,
I understand now. How ignorant am I in subwoofers: I was wondering how the bass would integrate in the overlapping area between my amp and the F112, let's say if I rolled the F112 at 60hz, since my Gallos go down to 40hz, I thought I would get bass from both in the 40-60 hz area. If I insert an external xover, I can cut my two channel amp at 60hz and let the F112 do the job on its own. Sounds great.

Thanks Manville,
I understand now. How ignorant am I in subwoofers: I was wondering how the bass would integrate in the overlapping area between my amp and the F112, let's say if I rolled the F112 at 60hz, since my Gallos go down to 40hz, I thought I would get bass from both in the 40-60 hz area. If I insert an external xover, I can cut my two channel amp at 60hz and let the F112 do the job on its own. Sounds great.

You should try it first without the external crossover. You might find that running the Gallos full-range and adding the sub to fill in the lowest bass will be seamless with some experimenting with crossover frequency, phase, etc... The advantage of an external xover would be that it would allow your main speakers to put out a little more output because they no longer have to produce the deepest bass, and it's possible your distortion levels will be lower overall BUT there's a good chance you'll lose some "transparency" by adding another component into your system. IMHO I would try to match the sub without an external xover first and if you are unable to do it then try one. See if you can borrow one first to see if it adversely affects the sound from your system. Something on the level of the Bryston 10B would probably be good but there are other options.

You should try it first without the external crossover. You might find that running the Gallos full-range and adding the sub to fill in the lowest bass will be seamless with some experimenting with crossover frequency, phase, etc... The advantage of an external xover would be that it would allow your main speakers to put out a little more output because they no longer have to produce the deepest bass, and it's possible your distortion levels will be lower overall BUT there's a good chance you'll lose some "transparency" by adding another component into your system. IMHO I would try to match the sub without an external xover first and if you are unable to do it then try one. See if you can borrow one first to see if it adversely affects the sound from your system. Something on the level of the Bryston 10B would probably be good but there are other options.

Thanks Bogg, good advice.
I will definetly try first what happens by setting the crossover of the F112 around 40hz , where the Gallos roll off, and see what happens. Since I have a real time analyser I can better monitor the situation.
Actually the idea of inserting an extra item in the chain worries me a bit (it also means extra cables and shelf room and I use quite expensive cables), but I will eventually try to set a higer frequency with an external crossover

Thanks Bogg, good advice.
I will definetly try first what happens by setting the crossover of the F112 around 40hz , where the Gallos roll off, and see what happens. Since I have a real time analyser I can better monitor the situation.
Actually the idea of inserting an extra item in the chain worries me a bit (it also means extra cables and shelf room and I use quite expensive cables), but I will eventually try to set a higer frequency with an external crossover

Since I have no bass management (stereo), I have found that it does take some effort to get a subwoofer dialed in just tucked beneath full range speakers. But, once its all set, it does sound very sweet. I've always favored this setup (with low crossover) as it sounds the best to me. If you feel that your mains have too much distortion in the bass department, you could always experiment with passive RCA first-order interconnect high-pass filters to ease the ultra low bass out of the mains.

Thanks Bogg, good advice.
I will definetly try first what happens by setting the crossover of the F112 around 40hz , where the Gallos roll off, and see what happens. Since I have a real time analyser I can better monitor the situation.
Actually the idea of inserting an extra item in the chain worries me a bit (it also means extra cables and shelf room and I use quite expensive cables), but I will eventually try to set a higer frequency with an external crossover

You can try it with no High-pass filter on the mains, but to really get the most benefit out of a subwoofer you should use an active crossover that also provides a high-pass filter to the mains. In my experience, its benefits far outweigh any effects of adding another component into the signal chain. The system will be more dynamic, exhibit less distortion and just sound cleaner.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Hey AnthemAVM,
Any luck getting your sytem to work yet?

I had AudioArchitect and his girlfriend over, and we discovered what seems to be a Dolby Digital bug in the Anthem D2. With the DTS the JL seems to be better.

We are leaving for Hawaii in the am, so no time to play with it, but the wife doesn't care for the bass out of the JL, and wants to go back to the SVS Plus/2 that we had. So I might be putting it up for sale when we get back in two weeks. My room is 21 x 20, and one JL can't preasure the room like we want.

I had AudioArchitect and his girlfriend over, and we discovered what seems to be a Dolby Digital bug in the Anthem D2. With the DTS the JL seems to be better.

We are leaving for Hawaii in the am, so no time to play with it, but the wife doesn't care for the bass out of the JL, and wants to go back to the SVS Plus/2 that we had. So I might be putting it up for sale when we get back in two weeks. My room is 21 x 20, and one JL can't preasure the room like we want.

Don't you live near Huntington Beach?
If you are, maybe we can arrange something. :)

I had AudioArchitect and his girlfriend over, and we discovered what seems to be a Dolby Digital bug in the Anthem D2. With the DTS the JL seems to be better.

We are leaving for Hawaii in the am, so no time to play with it, but the wife doesn't care for the bass out of the JL, and wants to go back to the SVS Plus/2 that we had. So I might be putting it up for sale when we get back in two weeks. My room is 21 x 20, and one JL can't preasure the room like we want.

Is this a sealed room or does it have openings to other rooms?

Question for msmith_JL: I've read a post of yours saying the F113 has 3dB more output than the F112? Is that for all frequencies or just one? What is the difference at 20hz?

I had AudioArchitect and his girlfriend over, and we discovered what seems to be a Dolby Digital bug in the Anthem D2. With the DTS the JL seems to be better.

We are leaving for Hawaii in the am, so no time to play with it, but the wife doesn't care for the bass out of the JL, and wants to go back to the SVS Plus/2 that we had. So I might be putting it up for sale when we get back in two weeks. My room is 21 x 20, and one JL can't preasure the room like we want.

Hmmmm...21x20 is a "bad" room in the sense that there will be large peaks and nulls in the bass because the dimensions are nearly the same. Did the SVS provide satisfactory bass in the same location that the F113 was placed?
I've heard the plus 2 and it's a good high output sub, but being the owner of a pair of F113s I'm surprised you'd go back to the SVS...keep us posted on what other things you try or if you just give up.

I had AudioArchitect and his girlfriend over, and we discovered what seems to be a Dolby Digital bug in the Anthem D2. With the DTS the JL seems to be better.

We are leaving for Hawaii in the am, so no time to play with it, but the wife doesn't care for the bass out of the JL, and wants to go back to the SVS Plus/2 that we had. So I might be putting it up for sale when we get back in two weeks. My room is 21 x 20, and one JL can't preasure the room like we want.


Wow Im amazed, being I too was an owner of a SVS plus/2 and F113 at the same time, I am stunned your wife likes the SVS better :eek: . Oh well to each his own. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Wow Im amazed, being I too was an owner of a SVS plus/2 and F113 at the same time, I am stunned your wife likes the SVS better :eek: . Oh well to each his own. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
My wife and I both love our SVS Ultra so much more than the F113 we recently auditioned (room size is 14' x 20. Thankfully we were able to return he F113 back to the dealer....it just lacked the pressure and output that we literally felt each and everytime with our SVS sub.

To each their own I guess but to me it's really like the proverbial King with no clothes.

My wife and I both love our SVS Ultra so much more than the F113 we recently auditioned (room size is 14' x 20. Thankfully we were able to return he F113 back to the dealer....it just lacked the pressure and output that we literally felt each and everytime with our SVS sub.

To each their own I guess but to me it's really like the proverbial King with no clothes.

I had dual SVS CS-Ultra's and while they moved everything in sight I do like the JL F113 better. The JL does not have the output of the dual Ultra's but it is more accurate and blends better with my main speakers.

If shear output is what you are after than a SVS Plus2 or SVS Ultra 2 is scary good. If you want a more accurate and articulate sub than IMO the JL F113 is one of the best out there.

If anyone has the opportunity to compare a SVS to the F113 again than listen to the texture and quality of the bass in music rather than just shear output for movies. I have heard details in the bass with the JL that I have never heard with another sub.

One last thing. SVS is a great company that really takes care of there customers and I had an extremely pleasant experience every time I dealt with them. JL definitely can't compete with SVS as far as value is concerned.

I had dual SVS CS-Ultra's and while they moved everything in sight I do like the JL F113 better. The JL does not have the output of the dual Ultra's but it is more accurate and blends better with my main speakers.

If shear output is what you are after than a SVS Plus2 or SVS Ultra 2 is scary good. If you want a more accurate and articulate sub than IMO the JL F113 is one of the best out there.

If anyone has the opportunity to compare a SVS to the F113 again than listen to the texture and quality of the bass in music rather than just shear output for movies. I have heard details in the bass with the JL that I have never heard with another sub.

One last thing. SVS is a great company that really takes care of there customers and I had an extremely pleasant experience every time I dealt with them. JL definitely can't compete with SVS as far as value is concerned.
Well said mjaudio....I too find the customer service at SVS remarkable. I even get my questions answered on a Sunday evening from them. They are very much a hands on company and a real pleasure to do business with.

If anyone has the opportunity to compare a SVS to the F113 again than listen to the texture and quality of the bass in music rather than just shear output for movies. I have heard details in the bass with the JL that I have never heard with another sub.


Have to agree as well, this is why I like this sub so much,...excellent detail in the lower reaches.

This thread is still going strong ! :)

I have to add...

My three JL Audio Fathoms are kicking...great subs.Best commercial subs in my collection. In the compactness to performance ratio JL Audio is the standard.

The Anthem processor has some strange limiting behaviors which are controlled by some setting deep in its menu structure. I heard this second hand from Carl Kennedy who experienced this while setting one up at a dealer. They were trying to figure out why the f113 lacked ooomph in this dealer's room and it ended up being a setting in the Anthem prepro. Once defeated, the sub came to life. I'm sorry that I don't have more specific details but I can certainly try to get them on Monday when I talk to Carl.

Bass Peak Level

The D1 includes a Bass Peak Level Manager that “looks ahead” at the bass signal and reduces the risk of subwoofer/speaker overload by tailoring bass output to match their output/power-handling capabilities.

You may want to read through the Anthem's manual.

Here's a link to a new review:

http://www.soundstageav.com/onhometheater.html

My next upgrade is going to be to a D2. So im really interested to hear what the problem is.

The Anthem processor has some strange limiting behaviors which are controlled by some setting deep in its menu structure. I heard this second hand from Carl Kennedy who experienced this while setting one up at a dealer. They were trying to figure out why the f113 lacked ooomph in this dealer's room and it ended up being a setting in the Anthem prepro. Once defeated, the sub came to life. I'm sorry that I don't have more specific details but I can certainly try to get them on Monday when I talk to Carl.



You may want to read through the Anthem's manual.



Maybe this what's been happening to Michael (aka AnthemAVM) He has the D2...

I also have an Anthem, but the AVM30 model and hopefully upgrading to AVM50..
Hmm.


Djoel

If I recall, (don't take this to the bank) you can defeat that bass peak level at least in the AVM-20 software by setting it to zero and turning bass peak level off.

MIchael (aka AnthemAVM) has the d-2 and I do not know if the software interface is the same. I auditioned the d-2 but did not play with the software.

If I recall, (don't take this to the bank) you can defeat that bass peak level at least in the AVM-20 software by setting it to zero and turning bass peak level off.

MIchael (aka AnthemAVM) has the d-2 and I do not know if the software interface is the same. I auditioned the d-2 but did not play with the software.



Hey Chuck how that Halcro ???a better question how is the bass management on it...Don't know which model you have..

Cheers

Djoel

Msmith, I will be interested what he has to say. I checked with Anthem, and they are not aware of any subwoofer bugs in the d2 system today. I am on vacation, so it will be a few weeks before I can play around with things

Here's a link to a new review:

http://www.soundstageav.com/onhometheater.html

that sucks about the master/slave problem

that was one of the main features that attracted me to this sub

that and all the glowing testimonials here

Msmith, I will be interested what he has to say. I checked with Anthem, and they are not aware of any subwoofer bugs in the d2 system today. I am on vacation, so it will be a few weeks before I can play around with things

From the description here, it sounds like it's an Anthem "feature" (not bug) that doesn't play nice with the JL Audio sub.

that sucks about the master/slave problem

that was one of the main features that attracted me to this sub

that and all the glowing testimonials here

That story had me worried, too, but I think it was really a criticism of the particular person the reviewer spoke with, NOT of the master/slave setup, per se.

That story had me worried, too, but I think it was really a criticism of the particular person the reviewer spoke with, NOT of the master/slave setup, per se.

yeah but i'd still like to know if other people have the same problem with running multiple fathoms

that daisy chaining feature is a great feature. especially for people who like to run an insane amount of subwoofers

:D

Hey Chuck how that Halcro ???a better question how is the bass management on it...Don't know which model you have..

Cheers

Djoel

Chuck?? :eek:

Bass management if fine for my needs. I don't complicate things as I cross everything over at 80 and let the processor and the JL 113 do what it does best. Everything is seamless in integration.

Here is a link to the Halcro Owners Manual if you'd like to study it. (http://www.halcro.com/logic/pdf/SSP_Manual_0306.pdf)

I preferred the Anthem 20 software interface over the Halcro SSP80, but once the processor is calibrated and set, I don't futz with it..

I'm quite sure both the 100 and 80 series Halcro have identical software interfaces. Anthem knew/knows how to make a very good interface for the end user and I would not steer anyone away from purchasing an Anthem product. However, the Halcro for my tastes, fit my needs and ears. I am very happy with the Halcro processor.

Charles

that sucks about the master/slave problem

that was one of the main features that attracted me to this sub

that and all the glowing testimonials here



Maybe a fluke, I don't remember hearing anyone with twins going through this problem...
Over all this was a great review...JL and bad customer service just don't go together, someone was having a bad day which reflect on their product. It happens,I am sure it wouldnt happen in some time now. :)



DJoel

Chuck?? :eek:

Bass management if fine for my needs. I don't complicate things as I cross everything over at 80 and let the processor and the JL 113 do what it does best. Everything is seamless in integration.

Here is a link to the Halcro Owners Manual if you'd like to study it. (http://www.halcro.com/logic/pdf/SSP_Manual_0306.pdf)

I preferred the Anthem 20 software interface over the Halcro SSP80, but once the processor is calibrated and set, I don't futz with it..

I'm quite sure both the 100 and 80 series Halcro have identical software interfaces. Anthem knew/knows how to make a very good interface for the end user and I would not steer anyone away from purchasing an Anthem product. However, the Halcro for my tastes, fit my needs and ears. I am very happy with the Halcro processor.

Charles


Sorry about that Charles.

Glad to hear all is well with the Halcro, and quite the big leap from AVM 20 to the SSP80. At first I was intimidated with my AVM 30 coming with the super simple Sunfire Receiver, and then their Pro/Pre. I have to admit from time to time I am bit curious on what's out there. But good to hear statement like yours, I would be banging my head trying to figure out how things work at this at this stage of my life...

Oh and thanks for the manual,you bet I am going to study it...it's what I do.


Daniel

Sorry about that Charles.

Glad to hear all is well with the Halcro, and quite the big leap from AVM 20 to the SSP80. At first I was intimidated with my AVM 30 coming with the super simple Sunfire Receiver, and then their Pro/Pre. I have to admit from time to time I am bit curious on what's out there. But good to hear statement like yours, I would be banging my head trying to figure out how things work at this at this stage of my life...

Oh and thanks for the manual,you bet I am going to study it...it's what I do.


Daniel

Daniel,

I've been called worse then Chuck so no need to be concerned. :) Heck, someone waved at me the other day in a car and was calling me a name that was not very nice. He even told me I was number one in their life at that moment!! :)

When I first connected the Halcro, i was pretty unhappy coming from the Anthem interface. I knew the AVM very well and the Halcro has a very unusual and manageable interface. However, like most things. time spent for learning and an attitude adjustment on my part gave me a different perspective on the software.

However, this is a JL thread and I am very, very happy with thier product.

Not sure what the reviewers issue with volume and ARO was but I am running dual F113's in the master/slave configuration and have had no problems running ARO. I also have A Velo SMS-1 and prefer to use the ARO defeat mode on the Fathom but still use the master/salve config. If I ever get a free weekend, I'm going to play with the dual master config and see how that compares.

Not sure what the reviewers issue with volume and ARO was but I am running dual F113's in the master/slave configuration and have had no problems running ARO. I also have A Velo SMS-1 and prefer to use the ARO defeat mode on the Fathom but still use the master/salve config. If I ever get a free weekend, I'm going to play with the dual master config and see how that compares.

are your f113's stacked?

I have dual F 113's and I haven't had any problems with mine either in the master/slave mode. Mine are not stacked.

Not stacked ... stealth ;)

Not stacked ... stealth ;)




Sweet :) , I've seen your twins before, and I get a kick every time. What I don't recall is the the Revel F50/F52 surround speaker :eek: What's in the fronts???


DJoel

Well, never thought I'd see it happen, never gave it much thought . . . .

So I'm demo-ing a three channel amp today in my HT with Revenge of the Sith. The opening eight minutes has been a standard for auditioning new gear for me. So imagine my surprise when, during one of the more intense bass parts, I hear what sounds like something tearing coming from the sub. Concerned, I turned the volume down and pulled the grill off the f113, and sitting at the bottom of the grill is the JL logo that was glued to the woofer. I can only suspect that the sub was flapping so much that it threw the logo right off and was bouncing off the woofer and grill until the bass died down.

Anybody else have this happen?

Well, never thought I'd see it happen, never gave it much thought . . . .

So I'm demo-ing a three channel amp today in my HT with Revenge of the Sith. The opening eight minutes has been a standard for auditioning new gear for me. So imagine my surprise when, during one of the more intense bass parts, I hear what sounds like something tearing coming from the sub. Concerned, I turned the volume down and pulled the grill off the f113, and sitting at the bottom of the grill is the JL logo that was glued to the woofer. I can only suspect that the sub was flapping so much that it threw the logo right off and was bouncing off the woofer and grill until the bass died down.

Anybody else have this happen?




Neat :p Not yet well I for one can't wait to see the JL logo come projecting out across my room ;)


Djoel

Sweet :) , I've seen your twins before, and I get a kick every time. What I don't recall is the the Revel F50/F52 surround speaker :eek: What's in the fronts???DJoel

I got the Revels a couple of months ago (replaced Monitor Audio Golds) and have F52's, 32's and a Revel I-30 in-wall being used as CC for the HT setup. I'm pretty happy with the audio side at this point. :D

Well, never thought I'd see it happen, never gave it much thought . . . .

So I'm demo-ing a three channel amp today in my HT with Revenge of the Sith. The opening eight minutes has been a standard for auditioning new gear for me. So imagine my surprise when, during one of the more intense bass parts, I hear what sounds like something tearing coming from the sub. Concerned, I turned the volume down and pulled the grill off the f113, and sitting at the bottom of the grill is the JL logo that was glued to the woofer. I can only suspect that the sub was flapping so much that it threw the logo right off and was bouncing off the woofer and grill until the bass died down.

Anybody else have this happen?

No, but the best reason yet to keep the grilles on :p

Well, never thought I'd see it happen, never gave it much thought . . . .

So I'm demo-ing a three channel amp today in my HT with Revenge of the Sith. The opening eight minutes has been a standard for auditioning new gear for me. So imagine my surprise when, during one of the more intense bass parts, I hear what sounds like something tearing coming from the sub. Concerned, I turned the volume down and pulled the grill off the f113, and sitting at the bottom of the grill is the JL logo that was glued to the woofer. I can only suspect that the sub was flapping so much that it threw the logo right off and was bouncing off the woofer and grill until the bass died down.

Anybody else have this happen?

:eek: That's a new one!

A judicious application of gel super glue (small amount) ought to put er back on. :o

Any word about the Anthem yet Manville. I'm very interested.

WOW you have a unique Fathom the bouncing logo edition ! :p

Any word about the Anthem yet Manville. I'm very interested.






Me too :)



DJoel

The Anthem D1 and D2 are very sophisticated and provide a huge amount of setup flexibility. It would be quite easy to overlook some setting that was made to set up one subwoofer system that may not be right for another. Carl Kennedy's experience was with the Anthem's "bass peak level" feature, which appears to be a limiter circuit with user-definable thresholds.

The relevant info is on page 48 of the Anthem's manual under "Bass Peak Level" which is in the Setup Menu. If that has been set for a different subwoofer system with differing gain characteristics or dynamic envelope it can have very significant negative effects on a different subwoofer. I would just turn that feature off to compare subs.

Other things to check:

Make sure you don't have stacked crossover filters (one in the pre-pro and one on the subwoofer, for example).

Adjust the phase control of the Fathom. (Have someone rotate the knob while you listen at the chair.) This can have a dramatic impact in the impact zone of the bass.

Hope that helps.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

The Anthem also has its own phase and polarity controls as well as an "Room Resonance Filter", a single PEQ, that could be in conflict with the f113.

also, if you are using the THX Ultra 2 sub setting and allowing for boundary gain inside of the Anthem, it will completely throw off your ARO. My advice would be to completely disable all bass management features on the processor, except for the crossover setting. it is how i got the flattest bass response in my system. in the past, before the f113, i used the room resonance filter on the avm 20 and found that it muffled the performance of the sub. i would rather live with a little bass peak than have a flatter but duller low end. but with the fathom, i dont have to compromise anything.

This question actually regards an F112 that I recently purchased (I hope it isn't considered a hijack):

If I use a y-splitter from the coax cable coming from the subwoofer output of the pre/pro to plug into both L and R inputs on the Fathom, will sound/accuracy be compromised in any way?

I have read that you will get increased output levels, but I am only concerned about whether the sound is compromised.

Reason for my question is that I have an in-wall cable for the subwoofer but I would like to extend its reach by about 12" or so to pull the sub slightly further away from the corner of the room. To do this I need to buy a short extenstion cable anyway, and I thought I might just buy one of the y-splitters (that are about 12" long), which may have the added benefit of slightly increasing output levels -- but only if the quality of the output is not compromised in anyway.

Thanks

Straw_man,

Quality will not be affected in any way by using a y-splitter and feeding both the L and R inputs. Gain will increase by 6dB so you may need to readjust the level downward. Maximum output is not affected in any way.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Thank you Manville for the quick answer to my question!

Much appreciated. :)

Question for msmith_JL: I've read a post of yours saying the F113 has 3dB more output than the F112? Is that for all frequencies or just one? What is the difference at 20hz?

xcjago...

Yes, the 3dB edge is pretty much across the entire sub-bass range. The f112 has more extended high-frequency responce, but in terms of low end extension is very similar to the f113.

For the record, here are the FR specs for each model that is currently shipping:

Fathom f112:
Freq. Response (anechoic): 21 Hz – 119 Hz (± 1.5 dB)
–3 dB at 19 Hz / 150 Hz
–10 dB at 17 Hz / 167 Hz

Fathom f113:
Freq. Response (anechoic): 20 Hz – 86 Hz (± 1.5 dB)
–3 dB at 18 Hz / 127 Hz
–10 dB at 16 Hz / 154 Hz

Gotham g213:
Freq. Response (anechoic): 19 Hz – 87 Hz (± 1.5 dB)
–3 dB at 17 Hz / 127 Hz
–10 dB at 15 Hz / 152 Hz

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Fathom f113:
Freq. Response (anechoic): 20 Hz – 86 Hz (± 1.5 dB)
–3 dB at 18 Hz / 127 Hz
–10 dB at 16 Hz / 154 Hz

Gotham g213:
Freq. Response (anechoic): 19 Hz – 87 Hz (± 1.5 dB)
–3 dB at 17 Hz / 127 Hz
–10 dB at 15 Hz / 152 Hz

By the numbers, it seems like the difference in performance between an f113 and a g213 is output capabilities?

glennQ

Yes and no, GlennQ.

The Gotham has an extra dimension of performance that probably can't be easily quantified in a spec, but is definitely noticeable when compared to stacked twin f113's. It sounds more solid and defined... not a huge difference, but definitely noticeable.

I have plenty of ear-time with the f113. It'll be interesting to experience the difference in the g213...

glennQ

Thanks for the help on the Anthem Manville. I found the limiter and things sound even better.

I finally decided to place an order for a F112 to be shipped here in Britain (I understand that the F112 thread has merged with this one).
It is a bit too big for my need, so I was thinking of waiting for the F110, but after all I don't want to wait anymore :p .
I must say that the excellent contributions of Manville to this thread have been one of the decind factors: I am sure I will get some help for the set up if needed

Hey guys, I need some help. I got my F112 calibrated and set and was wondering if I'm missing something. Long story short for now, I am having to push the 112 to it's max to get good performance (Reciever and Sub).. I do have a large space about 5000 cu. ft. but a small listening area. The reason I may think something is not just right is that my MKII does need this much receiver or sub volume before it will be over powered. I have to turn it way down. I thought the 112 would come apart maxed out at 1500w but it has no problem. Sound quality is awesome and really opens up my speakers. It's like the MKII is stepping on or coloring them when compared. Never the less I guess I'm used to that presence. I could step up to the F113 but I don't know how much more powerful it would be than the F112 in my setup. I can not go with dual Fathoms so don't bother. Any ideas would be great. I love the sound but it does not give those reference scenes the impact I want. The MKII does a good job but can only be pushed soo far. I'm sending a zip file of my layout. Thanks!

Hey guys, I need some help. I got my F112 calibrated and set and was wondering if I'm missing something. Long story short for now, I am having to push the 112 to it's max to get good performance (Reciever and Sub).. I do have a large space about 5000 cu. ft. but a small listening area. The reason I may think something is not just right is that my MKII does need this much receiver or sub volume before it will be over powered. I have to turn it way down. I thought the 112 would come apart maxed out at 1500w but it has no problem. Sound quality is awesome and really opens up my speakers. It's like the MKII is stepping on or coloring them when compared. Never the less I guess I'm used to that presence. I could step up to the F113 but I don't know how much more powerful it would be than the F112 in my setup. I can not go with dual Fathoms so don't bother. Any ideas would be great. I love the sound but it does not give those reference scenes the impact I want. The MKII does a good job but can only be pushed soo far. I'm sending a zip file of my layout. Thanks!

How far do you have the volume turned up on the sub? What about in the receiver settings? Did you run the auto calibration tool with the mic? When I ran that on my F112, it was shaking everything in the room. My room is smaller than yours, but it should still be pretty loud.

p.s. When you say MKII is that the HSU VTF-3 MKII?

Hey guys, I need some help. I got my F112 calibrated and set and was wondering if I'm missing something. Long story short for now, I am having to push the 112 to it's max to get good performance (Reciever and Sub).. I do have a large space about 5000 cu. ft. but a small listening area. The reason I may think something is not just right is that my MKII does need this much receiver or sub volume before it will be over powered. I have to turn it way down. I thought the 112 would come apart maxed out at 1500w but it has no problem. Sound quality is awesome and really opens up my speakers. It's like the MKII is stepping on or coloring them when compared. Never the less I guess I'm used to that presence. I could step up to the F113 but I don't know how much more powerful it would be than the F112 in my setup. I can not go with dual Fathoms so don't bother. Any ideas would be great. I love the sound but it does not give those reference scenes the impact I want. The MKII does a good job but can only be pushed soo far. I'm sending a zip file of my layout. Thanks!

what do you mean when you say you're pushing the F112 to it's max? Is it distorting? If you mean just the volume control on it is maxed then that's just related to the voltage coming out of your preamp and doesn't necessarily mean you've hit max output from the woofer.

Yes, the VTF3-MKII. I found one thing which everyone says it should not matter but I was able to gain an average of 8db's by using my J-adapter. Taking the lfe and splitting it to the left and right inputs on the sub. That's how I was running the HSU. So that helped some. Without it I was able to max out the sub volume on the receiver and the sub and it was not over bearing. I have to run the JL much hotter for some reason. I did calibrate with the mic. Maybe I will try to rerun my spl meter and bring the volume down on the speakers so the receiver will have to run hotter.

Don't know if anyone has posted this already, but I just saw JL get another sparkling review on Home Theater Magazine. The reviewer gave the JL a 96 overall, not bad! www.hometheatermag.com

Don't know if anyone has posted this already, but I just saw JL get another sparkling review on Home Theater Magazine. The reviewer gave the JL a 96 overall, not bad! www.hometheatermag.com

here's the direct link...

http://hometheatermag.com/subwoofers/407jlsub/

i am interested in buying one of these subs, please PM or email with info

thanks!

brad

whitmorebrad@hotmail.com

It's a GREAT sub I highly recommend it. While I am definately no expert I have had a quiete a bit of experience with these subs: SVS PB/12 plus 2, Defintive supercube, Paradigm Servo 15, Klipsch RSW 15, Klipsch RW12, DCM 10, and a bose bass module.

It's a GREAT sub I highly recommend it. While I am definately no expert I have had a quiete a bit of experience with these subs: ...and a bose bass module.

A Bose bass module? You are kidding. Right?

A Bose bass module? You are kidding. Right?


The bass module is the best right :rolleyes: :rolleyes: just playing ;) :D .

Guy's I am giving up on this sub, I have my Anthem working correctly, and still not getting the bass preasure I want in my room. This is a great sub, just not for me.

Anyone looking for a F113, drop me a line.

Michael

Guy's I am giving up on this sub, I have my Anthem working correctly, and still not getting the bass preasure I want in my room. This is a great sub, just not for me.

Anyone looking for a F113, drop me a line.

Michael
Are you serious? :confused: After watching the below link I still can't get my jaw off the floor! :cool:
http://home.jlaudio.com/graphics/MultimediaSection/movies/JLA_HT.html

Many people have sent me messages asking to expand on my problems.

I have a 20 X 21 foot room. In my room, unfortunately, no matter where I place the subwoofer, there is little low bass at the listener position, towards the middle of the room, but off center, I must be getting some cancelation of sound waves. The deep bass is in the corners of my room. Any ideas?

Michael

Many people have sent me messages asking to expand on my problems.

I have a 20 X 21 foot room. In my room, unfortunately, no matter where I place the subwoofer, there is little low bass at the listener position, towards the middle of the room, but off center, I must be getting some cancelation of sound waves. The deep bass is in the corners of my room. Any ideas?

Michael
Move the LP. It doesn't need to be in the corner, actually (shouldn't be/can't be), but the center of the room is the worst spot, generally. Try 2/3 or 3/5. Also, bass traps can help.

Craig

You room size is bad too, almost a square. Not much you can do about that though.

Many people have sent me messages asking to expand on my problems.

I have a 20 X 21 foot room. In my room, unfortunately, no matter where I place the subwoofer, there is little low bass at the listener position, towards the middle of the room, but off center, I must be getting some cancelation of sound waves. The deep bass is in the corners of my room. Any ideas?

Michael

Just curious, is the JL in exactly the same place as the old Plus/2?

I was in a square room in my old condo (prior to the dual F113s). My B&W ASW4000 had a measurable (test tones) dip at around 60hz and it seriously affected the impact of bass at the listening position. I had a second sub (an Earthquake 12incher) and experimented with position and phase to "cancel" the "dip". It worked and I had "satisfactory" bass. Due to the square room the bass was never "accurate" and "tight" but it did sound good with movies. Bear in mind that this method will only work for one location (i.e. the main listening chair) and the bass in other parts of the room will suffer.

Short of radical room treatments I'm not sure there is much else to do. If this is a dedicated listening room I would seriously consider changing the dimensions of the room to something like 15 wide x 21 long (not exactly that, just giving an example). Room mode calculators and a wise installer (or the internet!) will help.

If you can't change the room then I suggest you experiment with multiple (cheaper) subs in order to get smooth bass in the room.

Best of luck!

Just curious, is the JL in exactly the same place as the old Plus/2?

Yes

Since the Plus/2 was two drivers, would that help prevent sound wave cancelation in middle of my room?

Michael

I have to say the JL customer service is top notch, I have sent several emails to people over there, and they have responded in hours, with very detailed information.

This is what they said about my situation.

"You are fighting physics (unfortunately). Short of rebuilding your room, you can move your seating back and/or to one side, you can add one or preferably two subs to improve modal behavior of the room and that is about all you have for options. Self-serving as it may sound, multiple subs should be the default for any room. The idea that one sub is appropriate for any sound system is highly flawed and challenges like yours are a perfect example of one such problem. As a rule you will always find the least amount of bass in the center of a room and a pile-up of low bass toward the perimeter. Let me know if I can offer any more help.

Many people have sent me messages asking to expand on my problems.

I have a 20 X 21 foot room. In my room, unfortunately, no matter where I place the subwoofer, there is little low bass at the listener position, towards the middle of the room, but off center, I must be getting some cancelation of sound waves. The deep bass is in the corners of my room. Any ideas?

Michael

The SVS you had before has more output that the JL Audio in that it uses 2 12" drivers in a ported enclosure. I had dual SVS CS-Ultra's before and for output they dominated almost anything I had before or since for that matter. If you were hoping the Fathom would have more output than the SVS than I can see why your disappointed. I like the sound quality of the Fathom over the CS-Ultra especially for music but to equal the output of the SVS you would need at least 2.

SVS makes great subs and you could even get better performance and output from doing a DIY sub with a mighty pro amp (I believe SVS was born from the DIY crowd)

If you really want output than the Earthquake Supernova MKV15 is one of the loudest non-commercial sub on the market at about 117db+ in the 35hz region. For movies most of the output is in the 35hz and up range.

The JL Audio Fathom F113 is a great sub but you have to keep in mind it is in a somewhat small sealed enclosure which does not lend itself to extremely high outputs. Even in the review of the 112 in the Perfect Vision they recommend using 2 for bigger room and the Absolute Sound reviewed a pair of Fathom F113.

It sounds to me like you would be happier with the SVS for the output and heck I don't blame you. SVS is a fine company and they treated me like a million bucks when I was a customer. Eric and Tom were a pleasure to deal with and I wish every company treated there customers like SVS.

You would probably be happy with 2 Fathom 113's or a single Gotham 213 but that would be some $$$$.

Good luck.

Mike

Yes

Since the Plus/2 was two drivers, would that help prevent sound wave cancelation in middle of my room?

Michael

The 2 drivers should not make a difference if they are in the same cabinet. You may want to play with the phase or polarity of the JL as that could cause some cancellation as well. Once again, if you are trying to duplicate the output of the SVS than the JL won't help you there.

so two SVS subs (PB12-Plus/2's) will beat one Fathom F113?...

what about two Earthquake MKV-12's vs. one Fathom?

it seems that "two is always better than one?"

Originally Posted by mjaudio
The SVS you had before has more output that the JL Audio in that it uses 2 12" drivers in a ported enclosure. I had dual SVS CS-Ultra's before and for output they dominated almost anything I had before or since for that matter. If you were hoping the Fathom would have more output than the SVS than I can see why your disappointed. I like the sound quality of the Fathom over the CS-Ultra especially for music but to equal the output of the SVS you would need at least 2.
It's a very long thread but if you go to page number 5, you will see that a single f113 does have more output than an SVS PB12-Plus/2.

thanks bob, for the heads up

it is a long thread, these long ones are hard to wade through... :eek:

what about TWO SVS subs vs. one F113?...i think they can be had for the same price

It's a very long thread but if you go to page number 5, you will see that a single f113 does have more output than an SVS PB12-Plus/2.

so two SVS subs (PB12-Plus/2's) will beat one Fathom F113?...

what about two Earthquake MKV-12's vs. one Fathom?

it seems that "two is always better than one?"
This is a matter of total output vs. deepest extension, and is primarily room limtied. The SVS subs may dig deeper in terms of LF extension. However, the two Earthquake subs may have more total output across their operating range. The JL sub may integrate better with the room (due to it's shallower rolloff) than either of the other two subwoofer systems and may end up with the best overall FR and total output, (as it does in my room).

Craig

Originally Posted by bwhitmore
what about TWO SVS subs vs. one F113?...i think they can be had for the same price
Generalized, two or more of any sub placed strategically in the room can result in smoother or flatter frequency response for the room while not necessarily increasing SPL.

Two placed together can achieve as much as +6 db gain in SPL but would also, generally, behave as a single unit as far as room modes. So yes, two SVS PB12-Plus/2's colocated could/should be louder than one f113. YMMV.

Sound quality is something different and perhaps like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

FWIW, I find the f113 to be more beautiful in every way; but she's not a cheep date.

hey guys, getting ready to sell my f113 to purchase 2 f112's, if anyone is interested, please let me know. if not, i will post them on audiogon.

hey guys, getting ready to sell my f113 to purchase 2 f112's, if anyone is interested, please let me know. if not, i will post them on audiogon.

Why not just add another F113? I would think it would be cheaper than selling your F113 and buying 2 F112's with the loss on the used sale.

so two SVS subs (PB12-Plus/2's) will beat one Fathom F113?...

what about two Earthquake MKV-12's vs. one Fathom?

it seems that "two is always better than one?"

The Earthquake or SVS "beating" the Fathom F113 depends on what your looking for. Output wise the Earthquake MKV15 and SVS PB12-Plus/2 would win but IMO the Fathom would win in the quality of the bass. I have owned both the Earthquake and SVS subs and can tell you that they sound a bit bloated compared to the JL. I still have a Earthquake MKV12 and IMO 2 of these may get louder if stacked on top of each other for a 6db gain but they would not sound as good as the F113.

Two subwoofer (or more :D ) is usually always better than one!

for my particular application, the f112 works best

The Earthquake or SVS "beating" the Fathom F113 depends on what your looking for. Output wise the Earthquake MKV15 and SVS PB12-Plus/2 would win but IMO the Fathom would win in the quality of the bass. I have owned both the Earthquake and SVS subs and can tell you that they sound a bit bloated compared to the JL. I still have a Earthquake MKV12 and IMO 2 of these may get louder if stacked on top of each other for a 6db gain but they would not sound as good as the F113.

Two subwoofer (or more :D ) is usually always better than one!
I have a Earthquake MKV15 in my HT right now, along with an F112. I can easliy switch them out and measure the frequency response differences with the display of an SMS-1. Placing the two subs in exactly the same positions, I can get deeper extension with the F112, as measured on the display of my SMS-1. This is true no matter where I place the subs.

Craig

I have a Earthquake MKV15 in my HT right now, along with an F112. I can easliy switch them out and measure the frequency response differences with the display of an SMS-1. Placing the two subs in exactly the same positions, I can get deeper extension with the F112, as measured on the display of my SMS-1. This is true no matter where I place the subs.

Craig

I am not disputing that the F112 has deeper extension (although I have never checked myself) but what I am saying is that the MKV15 should play louder without distorting in the 35hz range were most movie bass is located.
117db at 35hz is very loud for any sub to hit without distorting (I know there are a lot of DIY subs that can easily achieve that though) and even though I have not measured it my Fathom does not seam to be as violent as the Earthquake with there levels matched. I do hear the Fathom playing lower than the Earthquake though.

I also had a Bag End Infrasub 18 which measures the best of all the subwoofers I have owned on the SMS-1. With the Infra 18 the line on the SMS-1 never dipped all the way to the end. Even though the Bag End had the best extension, bettering even the F113, it was in no way the best sub for movies as it would max out at about 108db at 35hz.

I love the Fathom F113 but you can definately get louder with the Earthquake or SVS. The Fathom is better sounding IMO than the other 2 and it is a sub you could actually call articulate. You can actually make out seperate notes in the bass where most subs are just booming along.

I love the Fathom F113 but you can definately get louder with the Earthquake or SVS. The Fathom is better sounding IMO than the other 2 and it is a sub you could actually call articulate. You can actually make out seperate notes in the bass where most subs are just booming along.

I'm not sure that's true. If I remember correctly from CraigSubs measurements, the F113 has higher output. I'm too lazy to go look it up though. :)

I love the Fathom F113 but you can definately get louder with the Earthquake or SVS.
I can't speak to SVS, but you can definitely get louder at 20 and 25 Hz with the JL. My MKV-15 drops like a stone at about 28 Hz and by 25 Hz, it's at the bottom of the chart. Now if you go up and put your hand on the sub, the whole box is vibrating at those lower frequencies. However, there is no acoustic output. If the box is placed on a resonant floor, it will vibrate the floor and that will be felt; it can even be violent. However, on my concrete basement floor, the vibration is not transmited through the floor. Therefore I get none of the "effect" and none of the acoustic output.

OTOH, the JL's deepest bass can definitely be "felt". I'll trade that for a couple of dB more output in a range (117 dB) that I am virtually never going to use.

Craig

I can't speak to SVS, but you can definitely get louder at 20 and 25 Hz with the JL. My MKV-15 drops like a stone at about 28 Hz and by 25 Hz, it's at the bottom of the chart. Now if you go up and put your hand on the sub, the whole box is vibrating at those lower frequencies. However, there is no acoustic output. If the box is placed on a resonant floor, it will vibrate the floor and that will be felt; it can even be violent. However, on my concrete basement floor, the vibration is not transmited through the floor. Therefore I get none of the "effect" and none of the acoustic output.

OTOH, the JL's deepest bass can definitely be "felt". I'll trade that for a couple of dB more output in a range (117 dB) that I am virtually never going to use.

Craig

Were just kicking a dead horse here as I too prefer the JL.

I do want to clarify again that I mentioned the 35hz output, not the 20 to 25hz output.

I am not trying to bash JL as I own one as well but we started this discusion with AnthemAVM not being happy with the amount of bass as compared to the SVS he also has. I know for a fact that my Fathom F113 does not match the output of the 2 SVS CS-Ultra's I used to own. I actually sold those subs since all the rooms in my old home shook so violently that pictures fell off the wall regularly.

It is just like the old adage, quality or quantity? The JL is more in the quality corner IMO.

Well I can say I have owned a SVS PB 12 plus/2 and JL 113 at the same time and must say, although the SVS was great sub, especially for the money, I definatley preferred the the JL over the SVS. Im one of those guys that has always had two subs in my system, I had a Klipsch RSW 15 paired with a Klisch RW-12 and then sold the Klipsch RW-12 and bought a SVS 12 plus/2, it was paired with my Klipsch RSW 15. I then sold my Klispch RSW-15 and bought a JL F113 to go with my SVS PB 12 plus/2. Needless to say, I was so impressed with the JL I sold my SVS and am now a proud owner of two JL's F 113's. I have absolutely no intention up upgrading or even looking at another sub. I have finally found, what is to me...., bass perfection :D .

Well I can say I have owned a SVS PB 12 plus/2 and JL 113 at the same time and must say, although the SVS was great sub, especially for the money, I definatley preferred the the JL over the SVS. Im one of those guys that has always had two subs in my system, I had a Klipsch RSW 15 paired with a Klisch RW-12 and then sold the Klipsch RW-12 and bought a SVS 12 plus/2, it was paired with my Klipsch RSW 15. I then sold my Klispch RSW-15 and bought a JL F113 to go with my SVS PB 12 plus/2. Needless to say, I was so impressed with the JL I sold my SVS and am now a proud owner of two JL's F 113's. I have absolutely no intention up upgrading or even looking at another sub. I have finally found, what is to me...., bass perfection :D .


I wonder what it is with mine, that both me and my wife found the SVS to be better.

The family is gone this weekend, so I am going to play around, maybe I can figure something out.

I will agree that for music the JL blows the SVS away for tight sweet bass, but when it comes to LFE, I find it lacking!

Well I can say I have owned a SVS PB 12 plus/2 and JL 113 at the same time and must say, although the SVS was great sub, especially for the money, I definatley preferred the the JL over the SVS. Im one of those guys that has always had two subs in my system, I had a Klipsch RSW 15 paired with a Klisch RW-12 and then sold the Klipsch RW-12 and bought a SVS 12 plus/2, it was paired with my Klipsch RSW 15. I then sold my Klispch RSW-15 and bought a JL F113 to go with my SVS PB 12 plus/2. Needless to say, I was so impressed with the JL I sold my SVS and am now a proud owner of two JL's F 113's. I have absolutely no intention up upgrading or even looking at another sub. I have finally found, what is to me...., bass perfection :D .

do you keep your JL's stacked?

I know this is weird AnthemAVM but would you be willing to try it in another room just for testing purposes? Put it in a non square room and try it just for fun.

do you keep your JL's stacked?


No they are on opposite sides of the room.

I wonder what it is with mine, that both me and my wife found the SVS to be better.

The family is gone this weekend, so I am going to play around, maybe I can figure something out.

I will agree that for music the JL blows the SVS away for tight sweet bass, but when it comes to LFE, I find it lacking!


My LFE with the JL's is outstanding. Wouldn't want anymore. I almost wonder Anthem if maybe you just have a bad sub.

I know this is weird AnthemAVM but would you be willing to try it in another room just for testing purposes? Put it in a non square room and try it just for fun.


Have JL F113 and willing to travel this weekend.

My other room with a stereo is a old HTIB, so that wouldn't work. I would be willing to take it to someone else home for a try.

Michael

Would you consider taking it to a home in South Florida? :D

someone compared the F113 with a Revel Performa 15B or the James EMB1500 ??

Have JL F113 and willing to travel this weekend.

My other room with a stereo is a old HTIB, so that wouldn't work. I would be willing to take it to someone else home for a try.

Michael

I live in Huntington, I'm free on Sunday. I would love to hear a JL in my room.
I'm not sure if the room is the shape you are looking for, but heres a artistic paint image. :)
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/8760/roomtf3.jpg

someone compared the F113 with a Revel Performa 15B or the James EMB1500 ??

If you were to use Craigsub's system of subwoofer ranking, and combine it with my experience with the James EMB1200, perhaps this would help you.

The ACI Titan 2LE was better than the James EMB1200 in my opinion.

The ACI Maestro XL is better than the Titan 2LE that I used to have in terms of overall SPL with the same sound quality. If you were to assume you could say that the Maestro XL is better than or at least parity with James EMB1500 (I would say so unless the jump from EMB1200 to EMB 1500 is huge compared to EMB1000 to EMB1200, which I doubt) then the F113 is better since it is better than the Maestro XL.

Hi Michael. I'm in Palm Springs and I already have an F113. Unfortunately I'm not home this weekend. Maybe another weekend if you are free.

Have JL F113 and willing to travel this weekend.

My other room with a stereo is a old HTIB, so that wouldn't work. I would be willing to take it to someone else home for a try.

Michael
Anthem, I think it's safe to say we hope you can make this sub work with your current setup. I have one in a 12.5'x22' room that opens to my kitchen and it sounds fabulous, and provides all the rumble I need (glasses in the cabinets rattling anyone???).

With that said, if you exhaust all of your options, or don't wish to go through them all which might be a hassle, then it's probably time to cut bait and move on.

I wish you luck though, and hope you're pleased with whatever you decide to do.

I really want to make this sub work out, when it comes to music it is perfect. Do you think a SMS-1 would help me dial it into my room?

Michael

Michael, to answer that question, you first need to plot frequency response curves to see where the problems are and how large they are. You can do it manually with SPL meter and a chart or by computer using REW.

Depending where in the room the dub is I have a large null, I think it was from 38 to 47

Depending where in the room the dub is I have a large null, I think it was from 38 to 47

Hmmmm...that's where a lot of the "meat" is for ht purposes. May explain your dissatisfaction with this sub and ht. I assume the svs didn't have the same dip in your room - maybe because it has 2 drivers, which evens out the response, although I'm not sure how true that is when they are in the same box.

Not all subs work in all rooms so it's worth experimenting but at some point you might try either adding another Fathom or getting a different svs.

Good luck! :)

I had a friend over who loves house music, and what they call progressive house, from a DJ Tommy Bones!
Which he down load from is web site, all I just have to say WOW!!! I've had my F113 almost for about 6 month now, and I've never heard it do what it was doing! Deep ,tight, and fast hits of what I would say perfect reproduction of the synths drum beats...Here is the kicker, my living room is about 16 1/2 wide and about 21 or 22 feet long about 8 feet high or so, the space room is sinking living room. There is a opening to foyer which is about 8 by 9 or so. the rest of the apt. The subs dial must have been at 2 O' clock or 3 at times which by any terms shouldn't have been as ear splitting as it was..This sub had us at grinning from ear to ear...Pumping enormous amounts of lowwwwwww clean bass.

My friend quickly notice the fast recovering attributes of the Fathoms,saying that he can hear two distinctive beats at same time.Down the hall that is roughly 4 1/2 feet by 12 feet where the rest of the rooms are seem like a bass torture room every thing was shaking, light fixtures swinging,picture frame a rattling doors a vibing, Girlfriend ah piss off!


This sub is with me for a long time ,wish I could get another one, wishful thinking...

Cheers

Djoel

Depending where in the room the dub is I have a large null, I think it was from 38 to 47


Nulls, especially if they are deep, are much harder to treat with EQ than are peaks. First try to minimize the null with positioning, then use EQ to reduce peaks which, in effect, makes the nulls less deep by comparison. Remaining nulls can thn be helped somewhat with judicious boosts.

Hmmmm...that's where a lot of the "meat" is for ht purposes. May explain your dissatisfaction with this sub and ht. I assume the svs didn't have the same dip in your room - maybe because it has 2 drivers, which evens out the response, although I'm not sure how true that is when they are in the same box.

Not all subs work in all rooms so it's worth experimenting but at some point you might try either adding another Fathom or getting a different svs.

Good luck! :)

I agree that that null is where the HT umph is. I don't think the two SVS drivers should matter: They are so close spatially that it shouldn't matter.

EQing out a null is tough/impossible but room treatments, that absorb the the frequencies causing the null would appear to be an option (best bet) given what is described.

EXCEPT

Why does the SVS sound so much more full? Was the phase setting different? Placement different? Listening seat different? At first I thought it might be that the JL is more accurate -- but if it's a null, the SVS located in the same place with the same phase, etc, should have experienced the same null.

With the available data points, it sounds like you really should exchange the unit for a different one from JL -- since the only thing we haven't ruled out is a defective JL sub. (But that seems like a long shot.)

Agreed good post.

I'm about to start the fine art of calibrating my new Fathom 113 for my family room, too. I suspect I might be crawling within the next two daze. Let me ask a "best practices" type question for my initial starting point in terms of placement. Right now, it's in the front left corner of the room, just to the left and behind the left speaker (on a stand).

First, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that a good start point is ~24" from the sidewall, and ~24" from the rear wall. If that "conventional wisdom" is correct, what exactly is 24" from anything -- the front baffle, the dead-center spot of the sub, the side and the rear of the sub? I placed it in the "dead center" spot, meaning the top center of the 113 was 24" from the side and rear wall. However, that doesn't quite work for me as it leaves the baffle about 6" from the side of a love seat.

And that leads to my next question, somewhat to do with so-called non-directionality of bass... I pushed the Fathom back toward the rear wall so it's not quite so close to the love seat, but it's still firing straight into the seat's side. Does that matter? Should the front baffle have a clear field of fire into my listening room? For "corner placement," would I be better off putting it there at an angle, so the back of the Fathom forms the bottom of a triangle with the left front corner of my room? As it happens, that would actually point it directly at my listening position, though I suppose that shouldn't matter too much?

Again, I'll be trying all of these positions for myself, regardless, but it'd be nice to apply some experience to my initial start point. Unfortunately, like most of us in the real world, I have aesthetic considerations that sort of lock me into that left front corner area, but I ultimately could get away with having it backing to the side wall, backing to the "front" wall, or somewhere along the lines of a true corner placement.

Point me in the right direction.

has anyone compared the F113 with the new Earthquake MKVI-15?...

just wondering if the F113 is worth the premium over the newest Earthquake

thanks!

Kitchener,
Glad to hear you're finally going to be able to use the sub!

I have a similar placement problem. The most convenient location was the right front corner. There was some wiggle room there, so I experimented around a little. I found the best sounding spot to be angled toward the listening position and spaced about 12" from each wall. I didn't do any sound measurements because I didn't have the tools then, but this sounded best to me. I tried snug in the corner, and spaced out without angling, but they didn't sound as good as my current placement.

Have fun.

any fathom owners use a sms-1 or is the built in calibrator enough?

any fathom owners use a sms-1 or is the built in calibrator enough?


I have an SMS-1 working with my dual F113's. The SMS-1 has been helpful in creating a flatter FR in my difficult room. Others feel that JL's ARO does the trick. I like the on-screen graphing of the SMS-1 and the instant feedback it provides when tweaking.

any fathom owners use a sms-1 or is the built in calibrator enough?

I am using a sms-1, but honestly I thought that the ARO calibration of the Fathom did a really good job on its own in my room with twin non co-located 113's in a master slave configuration. The SMS offers more flexibility, remote on the fly volume adjustments as well as on screen measurements over the aro. If you feel that you want any of the additional features, or if the aro just didn't do the trick in your room, you could always add the sms-1 to the signal at a later time.

I have an SMS-1 working with my dual F113's. The SMS-1 has been helpful in creating a flatter FR in my difficult room. Others feel that JL's ARO does the trick. I like the on-screen graphing of the SMS-1 and the instant feedback it provides when tweaking.It really depends on the room and placement. I set the f113 up with the ARO and used the SMS-1 to display what it did. The first pass was not an audible improvement, so I moved the f113 a bit and re-ran ARO. In this case, it sounded good and the SMS-1 display confirmed the improvement. I didn't see any aberrations in the SMS-1's (admittedly smoothed display) to require its EQ functions to be added. Another room, another setup and the 1-band ARO might not be sufficient.

I did the same thing Kal did when I got the Fatham. I already had the SMS-1, so I ran the ARO. It was easy to look at the SMS-1 display to see the effect that ARO had.

The ARO seems to be effective in knocking down 1 peak. In many rooms, this will be sufficient.

The SMS-1 was a HUGE help in finding the best location though. I think it is a great tool to help with placement and setting polarity. It is so much easier thatn using an SPL meter.

You got that right. My poor 113's been sitting in a box since May when I bought it. I knew I'd "arrived" when my wife said, after a demo of Open Range, "that can't be good for the house. LOL. I'll give your placement a whirl as a start position, and go from there. Thanks!


Kitchener,
Glad to hear you're finally going to be able to use the sub!

I have a similar placement problem. The most convenient location was the right front corner. There was some wiggle room there, so I experimented around a little. I found the best sounding spot to be angled toward the listening position and spaced about 12" from each wall. I didn't do any sound measurements because I didn't have the tools then, but this sounded best to me. I tried snug in the corner, and spaced out without angling, but they didn't sound as good as my current placement.

Have fun.

I had my F113 connected to a SMS 1,it really made it sound more tighter from the location than with the ARO,even though the ARO is no slouch...I disconnected the SMS 1,because a pro/pre upgrade and I am using a receiver at the moment. I miss the SMS 1 :( , but will connect it as soon as the pro/pre return to my life :)

A great tool indeed.


DJoel

Well I did a stupid thing last night, someone recommended to point my subwoofer to the corner. I was moving it and my daughter stepped on the RCA cable and the male end broke off in the connection.

So I am sending it off to JL on Friday to get repaired. Glad to hear that they will not charge me for it, just shipping to them. They will also look over the sub and make sure it is in perfect working order.

Michael

Look at the upside: At least you will know if the sub is up to spec.

Look at the upside: At least you will know if the sub is up to spec.

Agreed!! Considering all the effort and money you've put into this purchase Michael, if I was the owner, I'd want to know if it was the hardware versus the room. Sometimes what appears to be a negative, turns into a positive.

Well I did a stupid thing last night, someone recommended to point my subwoofer to the corner. I was moving it and my daughter stepped on the RCA cable and the male end broke off in the connection.

So I am sending it off to JL on Friday to get repaired. Glad to hear that they will not charge me for it, just shipping to them. They will also look over the sub and make sure it is in perfect working order.

Michael






Stupid I think not a blessing in disguise :)


DJOel

Stupid I think not a blessing in disguise :)
DJOel
1. Stupid, I think not a blessing in disguise.
2. Stupid I think not, a blessing in disguise.
3. Stupid I think, not a blessing in disguise.

Pick one.

1. Stupid, I think not a blessing in disguise.
2. Stupid I think not, a blessing in disguise.
3. Stupid I think, not a blessing in disguise.

Pick one.

I'm going with #2.

(good one Kal :D )

I was at work with one eye at the door ;) , looking out for nosey folks.....Give me a break..

What I meant was# 2) :D


Djoel

Michael,

I'm so sorry to hear that happened.

1. Stupid, I think not a blessing in disguise.
2. Stupid I think not, a blessing in disguise.
3. Stupid I think, not a blessing in disguise.

Pick one.
:D lol

You forgot the Shakespearian version;

Stupid I, think not a blessing in disguise.

Actually, none of you can punctuate worth a damn. ;)

The correct punctuation is:

Stupid? I think not. A blessing in disguise.

The word "stupid" is used as a question.

"I think not." is a complete sentence.

The last one is a sentence fragment, but it is punctuated like a sentence in this case.

Actually, none of you can punctuate worth a damn. ;)

The correct punctuation is:

Stupid? I think not. A blessing in disguise.

The word "stupid" is used as a question.

"I think not." is a complete sentence.

The last one is a sentence fragment, but it is punctuated like a sentence in this case.You are too generous.

Actually, none of you can punctuate worth a damn. ;)

The correct punctuation is:

Stupid? I think not. A blessing in disguise.

The word "stupid" is used as a question.

"I think not." is a complete sentence.

The last one is a sentence fragment, but it is punctuated like a sentence in this case.




:D :p :) Lol


Can I blame the NYC public school system?


DJoel

Okay back to the topic at hand... f113's.

Okay back to the topic at hand... f113's.
Okay..
When is JL going to let me demo 8x Fathoms in my 800~ cu ft room?
If it passes the spezzy test, I think it will have an OK for further production. :D :cool:

Okay..
When is JL going to let me demo 8x Fathoms in my 800~ cu ft room?
If it passes the spezzy test, I think it will have an OK for further production. :D :cool:

how about 4x gothams?

:cool: :cool:

headroom :D :D

how about 4x gothams?

:cool: :cool:

headroom :D :D

8x Gothams?

More headroom. :eek: :p :cool:

I've been reading the reviews of the f113 and have been favorably impressed, but am concerned by this quote several pages back from JL Audio:

A very low level hum when you place your ear close to the driver is normal. It shouldn't sound like a rattle though.

My room is used as an audio listening room as well and often times is very, very quiet - to the point where I can tell when I have an issue with a piece of equipment because the transformer in something is humming when it never had before. I actually had one piece serviced under warranty when I found the transformer hum to be a bit too loud.

Now given this, I can put my ear up to the driver of my current sub, a Velodyne F1500R, and I hear nothing. No hum, no hiss, nothing. Same with my normal speakers if the volume is turned down all the way.

If there is a hum emitted from the f113, I will notice it, and likely will find it annoying.

I ask owners, does it really emit sound when not being driven?

If so, I may have to investigate something else. :(