Congrats Ear! I was looking at the Conquest too. Just wouldn't fit into the decor but incredible bang for the buck for sure.

Congrats Ear! I was looking at the Conquest too. Just wouldn't fit into the decor but incredible bang for the buck for sure.

Please post pics of your quad Fathom setup when the room is complete.:cool:

Just one will do,I am saving eating Ramen soups ! :o

I have four digicams, but no no pics yet..I forgot how to use them...yeah right. I piss a good deal of people (like I did not know). Mr Smith you will confirm to those people ,as Radio St-Hubert is where I am getting the Gotham and have purchased my first Fathom f113 there....plus twenty some subs. :p

JL time,yes when that beastly Gotham arrives pics will sure be...and of some surprise guests too! I have one more thing quite ...sure Epik Conquest. Side by side with some of my best subs. Better salivate now.

The best part I do not use my sub for movies(where totally overblown effects dominate) I use my subs with music.Ah that extra rich low end,gotta love it.

what kind of price did they give you ? :D

Quad Fathoms are nice,but multiple Fathom subs and...a Gotham. Ah ahhhhh
now you are starting to drool the proper way. ;)

I will say to people the Gotham is a center channel...with some serious bass extension.

Please post pics of your quad Fathom setup when the room is complete.:cool:

Will do, hopefully in 2 to 3 weeks.

Quad Fathoms are nice,but multiple Fathom subs and...a Gotham. Ah ahhhhh
now you are starting to drool the proper way. ;)

I will say to people the Gotham is a center channel...with some serious bass extension.

We'll be eagerly awaiting some pics.

The pleasure will be mine, I will even have unboxing pics. Imagine that ! Incredible

The pleasure will be mine, I will even have unboxing pics. Imagine that ! Incredible

save the box, they will be collectible some day

i wonder if you can set up the gotham as master sub and your other fathoms as slaves

I have loved JL since my first trio of 10w6s in my car 15 years ago. Now, I have a media/billiard room that needs help. I am not sure what JL setup to go with. My room is almost rectangular and is 24' by 30' with 12 foot ceilings. The screen is on the short wall in half of the room and the bar and billiard table is in the other half of the room. I lose low frequencies due to the size of the room. I was thinking of a pair of two f113s but am concerned about their ability to fill the room. Any opinions? I need to fill the 720 sq. feet and 8640 cubic ft. Please help. Rock On!

A room this big four f113's or dual Gotham subs. You may start with dual f113's and find it is plenty to your taste.

I would place all four f113's alongside the front wall spaced a foot apart from one another. out of corners. A bit like the config I use ,save it is two f113's.

A forum member who has four Seaton Submersive subs also has then set up fron lined . I have tried multiples of identical subs up front.,lined along the front wall,or close to the wall. Great resluts acvross the seats and bas sis quite even in the room.

Without going into cheap vs. expensive, all cables sound the same debate, what kind of subwoofer cables are you using? I am using 12' MONSTER CABLE MonsterBass 400 Subwoofer Cable. I am considering upgrading after a very disappointing performance of my Monster interconnect when I compared it to Audioquest IC.

I am using a Tara Labs RSC Sub cable. I tried a couple other, more expensive cables but I couldn't tell any difference between the Tara, Nordost and Transparent so I kept the least expensive Tara.

Someone knows if JL are planning to offer different finishes for their subs like wood?
By the way, need to find a good dealer in Miami area with best price so someone could help? pm me. if answer cant be posted here
thxs

I am using a Tara Labs RSC Sub cable. I tried a couple other, more expensive cables but I couldn't tell any difference between the Tara, Nordost and Transparent so I kept the least expensive Tara.

Thanks. I am reading that cables make no difference when it comes to subwoofer cables. I was in the cable made no difference camp until I upgraded my speaker and amp and tired different interconnect between my pre-amp and amp. I am now a believer. I am now curious if the same is true for subwoofer cable.

I just helped a friend setup his two gothams into his two-channel system. He already has a pair of full-range speakers that play flat down to 20 Hz, so why add something into the mix? that was my question and until today, i now have my answer. the ability of the gothams to reproduce the strike of a kick drum is unmatched. His main speakers are some of the best speakers built, (Rockport Altairs)so please dont get me wrong, but the gothams simply provided a little more authority in the bottom octaves. they also move more air. the real trick is properly intergrating them with his main speakers. if you can do that, then you can not possibly mess anything up by adding a JL sub into the mix. the gotham is truly the best built and the best performing sub. PERIOD

Manville

A friend and I are having a debate concerning the ARO and using it with two subs.

My friend and I have a processor that provides dual mono sub outputs which will allow us to send a signal directly to each sub instead of using the master/slave setup of the JL subs. His argument is that in an asymmetric room, performing the ARO with each sub will help optimize each sub for their particular location and perhaps treat two peaks instead of the one peak that the ARO in the master/slave configuration. I can see the theoretical benefit of that setup; however, if both subs treat the same peak, nothing is gained. There are other issues and I know that JL suggests only using one ARO of both subs in unison while in the master/slave configuration, but is there any benefit in the running the ARO in each sub independently?

Thanks

If it makes you feel better, we have the same debate going on here. :D

One school of thought is that treating the subs as one averaged unit with one unified tranfer function to correct is better.

The other is what you stated in your question... that each sub should be optimized to its location and then let the two combine and do what they will.

I think both are valid arguments, but I run my own dual f112's in stereo, independently ARO-optimized. One is in a corner... the other is about 4.5 feet from the corner of the room. I have tried it in master/slave as well and found very little difference (it's actually very hard to "remember" one vs. the other setup)... it just makes me feel better to run them in stereo, so I did it the other way.

To further confuse matters, it would also be possible to master/slave them for setup (first run #1 as master, #2 as slave... then run #2 as master, #1 as slave... then flip them both to master and connect them with independent signals... this way they are both tuned as a pair, but operated independently... ok, now my head hurts. :p

Manville

A friend and I are having a debate concerning the ARO and using it with two subs.

My friend and I have a processor that provides dual mono sub outputs which will allow us to send a signal directly to each sub instead of using the master/slave setup of the JL subs. His argument is that in an asymmetric room, performing the ARO with each sub will help optimize each sub for their particular location and perhaps treat two peaks instead of the one peak that the ARO in the master/slave configuration. I can see the theoretical benefit of that setup; however, if both subs treat the same peak, nothing is gained. There are other issues and I know that JL suggests only using one ARO of both subs in unison while in the master/slave configuration, but is there any benefit in the running the ARO in each sub independently?

Thanks

I think both are valid arguments, but I run my own dual f112's in stereo, independently ARO-optimized. One is in a corner... the other is about 4.5 feet from the corner of the room. I have tried it in master/slave as well and found very little difference (it's actually very hard to "remember" one vs. the other setup)... it just makes me feel better to run them in stereo, so I did it the other way.

So.. your f112's are run in stereo and are optimized mostly for music? Would you still perform separate ARO's for each sub if you are running the subs in mono for home theater and music? Or is it the same?

If the subs are independently calibrated but still acting in unison, will they create additional frequency response issues?

I guess that this is part of your internal debate.....

So.. your f112's are run in stereo and are optimized mostly for music? Would you still perform separate ARO's for each sub if you are running the subs in mono for home theater and music? Or is it the same?

Well, my system is only 2-channels so, for me, there is no distinction between movie listening or music listening... it's all in stereo... not multi-channel... and it all sounds great!

I have run my subs in mono (my active crossover can sum to mono), and it sounds very similar, although because of my relatively high X/O point (90 Hz) it works a bit better in stereo, at least I perceive it that way. I think the issue of whether to calibrate independently or together is really not related to whether you run the subwoofers in mono or stereo. Either calibration method could be used for either playback setup.

If the subs are independently calibrated but still acting in unison, will they create additional frequency response issues?

I guess that this is part of your internal debate.....

THAT is the million dollar question, isn't it? From what I've seen, it doesn't seem to be the case... you get a pretty neutral response either way in the rooms we've measured.... not exactly the same response, but not any better or worse, either... just slightly different... but we don't have a large enough sample of room measurements to be able to say so authoritatively yet.

I will see if I can get some more technical insight from one of our engineers.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

There was a 30 minute period tonight when I had 6 Fathom F113s in my house!!!! Too bad I didn't get to listen to them...sold my satin pair and now have 4 gloss ones so that I have the option of putting them in colocated pairs if it works out better than the 4 discrete positions. I would've just kept the satin ones but a friend wanted a pair anyway so it worked out for everyone.

There was a 30 minute period tonight when I had 6 Fathom F113s in my house!!!! Too bad I didn't get to listen to them...sold my satin pair and now have 4 gloss ones so that I have the option of putting them in colocated pairs if it works out better than the 4 discrete positions. I would've just kept the satin ones but a friend wanted a pair anyway so it worked out for everyone.

Man, too bad they weren't 6 SVS PB-13 Ultras....what a sub, what a price, and they scored oh so much higher than the Fathoms....not really a choice I suppose.

Man, too bad they weren't 6 SVS PB-13 Ultras....what a sub, what a price, and they scored oh so much higher than the Fathoms....not really a choice I suppose.

hahahaha. getech, I'd like you to meet some people ...

oh, and don't bother to reply.

Man, too bad they weren't 6 SVS PB-13 Ultras....what a sub, what a price, and they scored oh so much higher than the Fathoms....not really a choice I suppose.


Scored much higher!? Who said so ? The absolute reference ,the great designers of the sub world united and agreed ?

You follow too easy. Dip your hands into serious DIY,build several subs of worth, buy a few dozen subs...have a real base to judge yourself and then speak.

There is no sub made that sounds better in a marked way than the Fathom or Gotham subs.

There was a 30 minute period tonight when I had 6 Fathom F113s in my house!!!! Too bad I didn't get to listen to them...sold my satin pair and now have 4 gloss ones so that I have the option of putting them in colocated pairs if it works out better than the 4 discrete positions. I would've just kept the satin ones but a friend wanted a pair anyway so it worked out for everyone.

Congrats ,four f113's ...:D Now you are talking. Too bad you did not listen to the world's defacto subwoofer waterboy GeeTECH. He has all the answers! ;)

I have 1. I can't imagine 4 much less 6. That's going to be crazy.

Getech, you should see the f113 in person. The finish is on a different level. The sound is absolutely incredible and you just won't believe how small it is when you see it.

...and you just won't believe how small it is when you see it.

stop stealing getech's lines. ;)

I'm pretty sure that getech has seen plenty of Fathoms. He just has an ax to grind because he is no longer authorized to sell our products. I won't get into any details beyond that. We've moved on... wish he would as well.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Man, too bad they weren't 6 SVS PB-13 Ultras....what a sub, what a price, and they scored oh so much higher than the Fathoms....not really a choice I suppose.

:rolleyes:

the same can be said about Epik Castles/towers compared to your beloved PB13's.....$500 cheaper and with better "scores", so where does that leave you?;)


gotta love disgruntled people! http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/kekekegay.gif

I'm pretty sure that getech has seen plenty of Fathoms. He just has an ax to grind because he is no longer authorized to sell our products. I won't get into any details beyond that. We've moved on... wish he would as well.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Ah this explains everything now. :D Well I can say JL makes great subs, jealous people or competitors have a good reason to be angry.

I forgive GeeTech

I'm pretty sure that getech has seen plenty of Fathoms. He just has an ax to grind because he is no longer authorized to sell our products. I won't get into any details beyond that. We've moved on... wish he would as well.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.
Thanks for the info. ;)

Guys I have two PB 13 and a F113 sitting in my theater room right now. I did a little bit of testing last tonight. I am BY far not an expect but have a decent setup with M&K 5000 in a 7.1 setup.

I come from a background of M&K subs which I would considered what I enjoy sound wise. Output alone is not what I am after.

At this point I need to hear some more before I make a choice but to be honest after last night I am wondering if I have 300 pounds of hype in my room.

We will see....

You have 420 pounds of subs and 300 pounds of hype...please explain.

So I had to report back here...I finally got my F113 installed. Thanks for all of the advice. Just as a point of reference, I have previously owned an Axiom EP500 and a Paradigm Seismic 12.

When I was debating whether or not to upgrade, I was pretty confident that the F113 would provide me a noticeable difference giving more impact at higher volumes and provide a deeper output, and it does. What I was not prepared for, was how much a difference it makes at lower to normal listening levels. Even watching tv shows puts a smile on my face. I really love what it does for music.

Obviously this is nothing new to you F113 owners, but I just needed to express how happy I am.

Thanks
Greg

So I had to report back here...I finally got my F113 installed. Thanks for all of the advice. Just as a point of reference, I have previously owned an Axiom EP500 and a Paradigm Seismic 12.

When I was debating whether or not to upgrade, I was pretty confident that the F113 would provide me a noticeable difference giving more impact at higher volumes and provide a deeper output, and it does. What I was not prepared for, was how much a difference it makes at lower to normal listening levels. Even watching tv shows puts a smile on my face. I really love what it does for music.

Obviously this is nothing new to you F113 owners, but I just needed to express how happy I am.

Thanks
Greg

I think the job the F113 does on normal volume viewing is amazing and your don't notice it is gone until you switch subs and it shows how it just blends in so well.

You have 420 pounds of subs and 300 pounds of hype...please explain.

if he was comparing 2 ultras to 1 f113 then he had to be referring to the ultras as the "hype", that's what i gathered

according to the websites, ultras are 155 pounds each

f113 is 130

I suspected as much. As an aside, I don't see the u13 as hyped...it delivers phenomenal performance for a very reasonable price.

Ah this explains everything now. :D
You can say that again...

Well I can say JL makes great subs, jealous people or competitors have a good reason to be angry.
and that too...

I forgive GeeTech
I'll get back to you on that...

Obviously this is nothing new to you F113 owners, but I just needed to express how happy I am.

Thanks
Greg

In the inimitable words of Borat, "High-Five!"

that is too funny ML, he shut right up didnt he?

its a shame the way people act when they are hurting inside. wouldnt want my sister to be his ex girlfriend!!!!!!

Happy Birth Day to my F113 it's a year old, well give or take a few weeks.....And still in love with. Wish I could get the little fellow a brother:)


DJoel

Happy Birth Day to my F113 it's a year old, well give or take a few weeks.....And still in love with. Wish I could get the little fellow a brother:)


DJoel

They are much better behaved when you have a pair;)
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/rmk_01/SubwooferCove.jpg

Happy Birth Day to my F113 it's a year old, well give or take a few weeks.....And still in love with. Wish I could get the little fellow a brother:)


DJoel

Just keep trying with the wife and you never know, a little brother may be on the way. ;)

So, Rob, is the bean bag now your primary LP?:)

Don't you worry you will bang the Fathom with the door?:(

This picture reminds me, did we ever close the room at the GTG? I don't remember the doors ever being closed.:confused:

Isn't this the saddest thing you ever seen, he just keep to himself all along in a corner...




http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s57/djoeltaveras/Fathom002.jpg

Djoel

They are much better behaved when you have a pair;)
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/rmk_01/SubwooferCove.jpg


Wow, very sweet...:)

Are those 4" panels? How are those Revels working for you?


DJOel

So, Rob, is the bean bag now your primary LP?:)

Don't you worry you will bang the Fathom with the door?:(

This picture reminds me, did we ever close the room at the GTG? I don't remember the doors ever being closed.:confused:

I'm saving the bean bag seat for you considering your preference for near field bass.:p

I have a door stop to install (I have one on the other side to protect the Revel Studio) but I'm not sure how long they will be there. I'm adding some more speakers for a 7.1 and might move the Fathoms back to the front.

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure if the door was closed the whole time. :confused: We are getting old, aren't we.;)

Wow, very sweet...:)

Are those 4" panels? How are those Revels working for you?


DJOel

Thanks ...

No, they are 2" GIK panels. I have bass traps in the two front corners of the room.

The Revels are just amazing. :D:D:D:cool:

Maybe I can introduce my lonely single F113 to yours sometime Djoel. :p

I suspected as much. As an aside, I don't see the u13 as hyped...it delivers phenomenal performance for a very reasonable price.

You should bring a pair of Fathoms and see how they compare to my IB. I know you have 4 but that's hefty cargo.

I have a door stop to install (I have one on the other side to protect the Revel Studio) but I'm not sure how long they will be there. I'm adding some more speakers for a 7.1 and might move the Fathoms back to the front

I am sure you have probably already thought of this but when you put on your door-stop, install a hinge stop. fully adjustable so you can get the door to open as close to the JL's as possible while not touching them and they are also removable if you dont need them. No drilling holes required. Just thought I would mention it. Great looking room, I'd like to see the whole thing.

Thanks ...

No, they are 2" GIK panels. I have bass traps in the two front corners of the room.

The Revels are just amazing. :D:D:D:cool:

Did you had a chance to compare your Revels to the Performas, especially the F32? I wonder how much of an improvement there is as you move up the Revel line.

I am sure you have probably already thought of this but when you put on your door-stop, install a hinge stop. fully adjustable so you can get the door to open as close to the JL's as possible while not touching them and they are also removable if you dont need them. No drilling holes required. Just thought I would mention it. Great looking room, I'd like to see the whole thing.

Good idea on the hinge stop:cool:

More room pics here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=905600

I'm saving the bean bag seat for you considering your preference for near field bass.:p

I have a door stop to install (I have one on the other side to protect the Revel Studio) but I'm not sure how long they will be there. I'm adding some more speakers for a 7.1 and might move the Fathoms back to the front.

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure if the door was closed the whole time. :confused: We are getting old, aren't we.;)



Hmm I though you had discover some acoustic secret with the bean bag:p

I was going to run out and get me one to see the affects;)

So are you going with The Voice, EmBrace all around?

I love Revel, luckyyy

:Edit I just finish seeing the pictures of your amazing room, I see you have the whole shebang <---Is that how you spell that??:confused::o

Djoel

Just keep trying with the wife and you never know, a little brother may be on the way. ;)



I am in the dog house as I write, I am doing the sofa mambo, and the only loving I am getting lately is from our dog:(

So no real chance at the moment she holds a grunge for some time:rolleyes:

Djoel

:Edit I just finish seeing the pictures of your amazing room, I see you have the whole shebang <---Is that how you spell that??:confused::oDjoel

That's how I'd spell it but in light of your current situation, shedon'tbang might be more appropriate, no?:p

That's how I'd spell it but in light of your current situation, shedon'tbang might be more appropriate, no?:p



AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
LMARO!!!!!:D:D:D

I can't let her hear me laugh, then she'll think I am having a good time in these trying times;):rolleyes:


Ah, that's was a great pick me upper. So funny, but so true:(

DJoel

That's how I'd spell it but in light of your current situation, shedon'tbang might be more appropriate, no?:p

lol, very clever!

You should bring a pair of Fathoms and see how they compare to my IB. I know you have 4 but that's hefty cargo.

fugeddaboutit...I'm not crazy enough to lug those things around! Looking forward to wotw on the IB though. :)

Someone asked me if the high pass on the F112 is for the mains at line
level or speaker level. What should be the answer?

Someone asked me if the high pass on the F112 is for the mains at line
level or speaker level. What should be the answer?

Neither. There is no high-pass output. You need to use the pre-pro/receiver's bass management or apply an outboard active crossover.

msmith

We have now gotten a loaner JL F113 in our cinema, since there have been a slight delay in the shipment but hopefully our twins are already on their way from you to the Norwegian distributor :-)

The single F113 does a great job so far, a marked step up from the single SVS PB 12 plus/2 in our rom. The bass is so much, tauter and cleaner and deaper than before so all things well.

Tested the HD-DVD version of Pulse on the single F113 and yes it make strange noises in Norway to….

I can turn my Denon up to – 15 db (on other soundtracks usually listen quite a bit higher than that, and we have so far not heard any strain on other soundtracks than the one in Pulse)

Have you investigated further into what’s happening? Is it he amp clipping or are the woofer reaching its limits, is it the amp limiter kicking in? The exertion on the woofer is quite large, but from your promo video it looks like it can go further...

Any light on this would be appreciated!

Even if Pulse takes it to the limit, we are still very happy with our decision (don’t like the film…) , and as you know the competitions do not do much better on this track either.

We have done some testing with the Pulse "server room" scene and are pretty sure that the odd noises are related to the limiting circuitry in the Fathoms (and the Gotham). The driver is not in distress, but the specific nature of that particular low frequency pulse creates a sonic artifact. This is the first material that has ever created audible artifacts like that so we are studying it further to see exactly what is happening.

I will share more information once the engineers have absolutely figured out the issue.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

msmith

We have now gotten a loaner JL F113 in our cinema, since there have been a slight delay in the shipment but hopefully our twins are already on their way from you to the Norwegian distributor :-)

The single F113 does a great job so far, a marked step up from the single SVS PB 12 plus/2 in our rom. The bass is so much, tauter and cleaner and deaper than before so all things well.

Tested the HD-DVD version of Pulse on the single F113 and yes it make strange noises in Norway to….

I can turn my Denon up to – 15 db (on other soundtracks usually listen quite a bit higher than that, and we have so far not heard any strain on other soundtracks than the one in Pulse)

Have you investigated further into what’s happening? Is it he amp clipping or are the woofer reaching its limits, is it the amp limiter kicking in? The exertion on the woofer is quite large, but from your promo video it looks like it can go further...

Any light on this would be appreciated!

Even if Pulse takes it to the limit, we are still very happy with our decision (don’t like the film…) , and as you know the competitions do not do much better on this track either.

Have you seen the results from testing that exact scene with a SVS PB13 Ultra?

Yeah, it made worse noises at lower volume.

Have you seen the results from testing that exact scene with a SVS PB13 Ultra?

Ahem < I have nothing at all against SVS,they pushed the sub world forward BIG TIME. And the Ultra13 is a fantastic product.

However you keep showing here, in this JL Audio Fathom thread and for reasons known to your angry self ,try to force people to prefer another product.

Sorry little one, I know my subs better than you will ever know yours and will not part with any JL subs I have...and add ! :p

Now take your medication and chill.

Yeah, it made worse noises at lower volume.

I concur.

We have done some testing with the Pulse "server room" scene and are pretty sure that the odd noises are related to the limiting circuitry in the Fathoms (and the Gotham). The driver is not in distress, but the specific nature of that particular low frequency pulse creates a sonic artifact. This is the first material that has ever created audible artifacts like that so we are studying it further to see exactly what is happening.

I will share more information once the engineers have absolutely figured out the issue.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Thanks! Interested to hear your findings. If you find a solution, It will be nice if the limiter can be field upgraded (at least by the distrubutor) to be "Pulse safe" also for your overseas customers :-)

Have you seen the results from testing that exact scene with a SVS PB13 Ultra?


Not in person, but have seen the youtube clip and the sound artifact is pretty much the same on the JL as the SVS. Fortunally the fuse or amp don't blow on the JL.

Yeah, it made worse noises at lower volume.

http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/bowrofl.gif.........:D

hee hee, awesome smiley character.

Thanks! Interested to hear your findings. If you find a solution, It will be nice if the limiter can be field upgraded (at least by the distrubutor) to be "Pulse safe" also for your overseas customers :-)

How about if we all agree to throw that creepy, stupid movie in the trash and get on with our lives???
:D:D:D

That is also a solution :-)))

How about if we all agree to throw that creepy, stupid movie in the trash and get on with our lives???
:D:D:D

Best advice EVER !

Finally someone speaks the truth. :D

Well, I made the move and added an additional F113 to my main system. I am actually suprised (amazed?) at the difference in the bass. Duals seem to have elevated the entire system to another level. I have heard the Gotham and while they probably aren't its equal, the dual F113's are AWESOME :D (as I am sure most of you know)

Here is the waterfall from our HD-DVD of Pulse... from the part where she enters the computer room until the ghost guy grabs her.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/pulsescene.jpg

Dual Fathom-113's ... Damn, do I miss those. The only good part about selling them was the proceeds went to 2nd Harvest Food Bank. :)

Well, I made the move and added an additional F113 to my main system. I am actually suprised (amazed?) at the difference in the bass. Duals seem to have elevated the entire system to another level. I have heard the Gotham and while they probably aren't its equal, the dual F113's are AWESOME :D (as I am sure most of you know)

Now imagine how good Quad f113's are!!!

Just kidding... congrats and thanks! :D

Dual Fathom-113's ... Damn, do I miss those. The only good part about selling them was the proceeds went to 2nd Harvest Food Bank. :) :D. I feel fortunate that the expense wasnt the hardest part for me, it was moving these mini-monsters around the room!!Craig, did you have enough time with your 113's to experiment with both master/slave and stereo subs? I havent decided yet which will work best for me. I am very tempted to run each next to its Aerial partner since this system is used 80/20 music vs. theater. Any thoughts/opinion?

:D. I feel fortunate that the expense wasnt the hardest part for me, it was moving these mini-monsters around the room!!Craig, did you have enough time with your 113's to experiment with both master/slave and stereo subs? I havent decided yet which will work best for me. I am very tempted to run each next to its Aerial partner since this system is used 80/20 music vs. theater. Any thoughts/opinion?

Yes, we ran them both ways ... and stereo subs with the Aerials ... You would now have SOTA from 16 Hz and up ... nice !! For what you are looking at doing, definitely. :)

Well, I made the move and added an additional F113 to my main system. I am actually suprised (amazed?) at the difference in the bass. Duals seem to have elevated the entire system to another level. I have heard the Gotham and while they probably aren't its equal, the dual F113's are AWESOME :D (as I am sure most of you know)

Ah they are mighty close,mighty close IMO. The Gotham adds stunning looks to the great looking Fathom. And the cabinet...oh the cabinet...

Congrats, you are now free from sub limitations. Duals can sure pump some air.

:D. I feel fortunate that the expense wasnt the hardest part for me, it was moving these mini-monsters around the room!!Craig, did you have enough time with your 113's to experiment with both master/slave and stereo subs? I havent decided yet which will work best for me. I am very tempted to run each next to its Aerial partner since this system is used 80/20 music vs. theater. Any thoughts/opinion?

My setup will also be 80/20 music/theatre. I would suggest trying to put the subs at the same distance from the primary listening position as the main speakers. Then adjust from there. It will work in my room based on the way it was designed (Rives Audio), and hopefully I'll know very soon. (Has anyone ever had a contractor finish by the estimated date and under budget???? Not me!)

My setup will also be 80/20 music/theatre. I would suggest trying to put the subs at the same distance from the primary listening position as the main speakers. Then adjust from there. It will work in my room based on the way it was designed (Rives Audio), and hopefully I'll know very soon. (Has anyone ever had a contractor finish by the estimated date and under budget???? Not me!)

Excellent suggestion. I will give it a try this weekend.

I noticed that my Logitech Z-2300 computer speaker's satellite look a lot like a Gotham! LOL

I noticed that my Logitech Z-2300 computer speaker's satellite look a lot like a Gotham! LOL

:confused::confused::confused:
http://www.logitech.com/repository/329/jpg/2364.1.0.jpg

http://home.jlaudio.com/graphics/ProductsSection/Gotham/g213_Grilles.jpg

Manville ... They DO both have curved backs.

Of course, the Gotham makes me want to order one, while the computer speakers ... not so much. :D

Heh with the full gotham grill cover you might think it's a satellite speaker (with no other size reference), but as soon as those buttons on top are exposed that theory flies right out the window :)

Heh with the full gotham grill cover you might think it's a satellite speaker (with no other size reference), but as soon as those buttons on top are exposed that theory flies right out the window :)
So you haven't heard of the new Gotham satellite speaker? ;)

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/245/gothamsatellitesxa4.jpg

So you haven't heard of the new Gotham satellite speaker? ;)

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/245/gothamsatellitesxa4.jpg

LOL this is great! Now I remember why I kept my subscription to this thread live! Nice work ;p

Wow, if they built a fathom to that scale relative to the gotham it would have one MONSTER woofer...I want one! Kinda like the giant woofer that sends McFly across the room in Back to the Future.

I noticed that my Logitech Z-2300 computer speaker's satellite look a lot like a Gotham! LOL

are you sorry you posted this yet ?

:p

Wow, if they built a fathom to that scale relative to the gotham it would have one MONSTER woofer...I want one! Kinda like the giant woofer that sends McFly across the room in Back to the Future.

Setup would be challenging:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5109/gothamsatellitesladderbk2.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gothamsatellitesladderbk2.jpg)

Setup would be challenging:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5109/gothamsatellitesladderbk2.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gothamsatellitesladderbk2.jpg)

lolololol.

There's one on Audiogon right now should anyone be man enough for it. ;)

Hell, if I think my room could handle it I'd consider it. But my single f113 does just fine. And I think my girlfriend and dog would leave me if I bought a second sub. The dog already leaves the room when things get rockin'.

Setup would be challenging:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5109/gothamsatellitesladderbk2.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gothamsatellitesladderbk2.jpg)

awesome picture! that's hilarious. :)

Build me a subwoofer worthy of...:p That is what he said in LOTR ;)

Setup would be challenging:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5109/gothamsatellitesladderbk2.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gothamsatellitesladderbk2.jpg)

Speaking of setup: :D

I am incorporating a 2 channel pre pro with HT bypass into my 5.1 system and to run the JL113 in both the processor for movies and off the 2 channel Conrad Johnson pre pro for music is a bit confusing to me. I can connect the JL via a Y adapter to both the SSP and the pre pro, but my question is how would I calibrate the sub and set the crossover in the SSP?

I'm thinking to manually set the sub to crossover at i.e. 80 hz, which would take care of the 2 channel side, but what about the SSP? Is what I am trying to accomplish possible using the JL in both pieces?

Thanks in advance.

I'm probably going to do the same thing Mozvz. You can set the volume and crossover frequency, phase etc... using the fathom for 2 channel and then bypass the volume control and crossover whenever you use the sub for ht, while making the necessary adjustments in the ssp.

Bogg,

Perhaps I am having a brain fart with the setup of a dedicated 2 channel pre pro with HT Bypass and an SSP integrated into the same system using the JL113 subwoofer. Please correct me if I am wrong with what I am writing as I am far from a genius with this stuff, but I do try!! :) Or maybe my comprehension skills are deteriorating as we speak on what you wrote.

If I am using the sub connected to the SSP I can use the calibration level, crossover frequency and speaker settings (Lg/Small) at the SSP level. The SSP controls what the Fathom outputs. I would need to set the JL113 level mode switch to "Reference."

Now, if I am using the sub in 2 channel through the pre pro (HT Bypass) with the Fathom connected, (2.1) that would not be advisable because the sub is not able to access the settings from the SSP because its out of the loop? Wouldn't I need to set the level mode switch to "Variable" then set the "LP Filter" to "12db" or "24db" and then the "LP freq" to whatever crossover i.e 80 I desired?

It would seem that if the SSP control settings are out of the loop when the 2 channel pre pro is active, (HT Bypass) then what the heck would control the JL's settings if it's not getting a signal from the SSP? Wouldn't that need to be done manually with what I suggest because in a dedicated 2 channel pre pro, everything is sent to the 2 front speakers as large and the sub would receive the same signal unless you tell it where to cross over the entire signal?

Maybe I am over analyzing this entire process!! :o

Thanks,
Charles

Charles, I think we're saying similar things. Let me clarify: Hook up the fathom to the sub output on the ssp and set levels, phase etc using the ssp while leaving the jl in "reference" and bypassing the crossover. If you have used a balanced cable for the ssp to sub then you can use rca cable from audio preamp to sub and then use the adjustments on the jl for volume, phase etc... It will mean some disconnecting of cables when switching between ht and 2 channel which is a slight pita.
I'm not sure how you could use the ht bypass function in your audio preamp - I had the same thing but it was used for the front channels only.

Mozvz:

1) Connect your 2-channel preamp to the unbalanced inputs and your pre-pro to the Balanced Input(s). Just don't play them at the same time. :)

2) Run ARO

3) Adjust the Fathom for your 2-channel system (Crossover, phase, polarity, ELF and Level).

4) Now, defeat the Fathom's crossover, leaving all the other 2-channel settings in place, and adjust your pre-pro for Multi-channel listening (subwoofer level, bass management, delay, crossover freq., phase, etc.)

5) To operate the system in 2-channel mode, simply switch the Fathom's crossover on... to operate for multi-channel turn the crossover off.

Note: If you use an active outboard crossover for the 2-channel setup (instead of the Fathom's crossover), you can leave the Fathom's LP filter switch "off" and avoid switching altogether and you also gain high-pass filtering for your mains. I would strongly recommend this approach.

Hope that helps,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Bogg and Mr. Smith,

Thank you for your help. I'll follow your instructions!!

Charles

Quick question here.

I'm currently running 2 M&K MX-350 subs in my theater hooked into an SMS-1. I've stumbled across this thread several times and have done some research on the Fathom F113 and like what I see! I've been in a debate to try out the Klipsch THX Ultra2 subs (2 of them with the amp) and see how they perform, or go for a single F113 (with the thought of going to two shortly after).

Would I need the SMS-1 still if I went with the F113 since it has the ARO? I know I would need to keep it for the Klipsch's if I went that route. Has anyone had experience with all three subs before? I want to make sure I'm going to see, uh, well, FEEL the difference from what I have now to something new.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

The ARO is a single band parametric if my memory serves me correctly. A single band of EQ may be all that you need in your specific room. Maybe not. The SMS-1 still has far greater flexibility.

I would say keep the SMS-1.

--Regards,

Quick question here.

I'm currently running 2 M&K MX-350 subs in my theater hooked into an SMS-1. I've stumbled across this thread several times and have done some research on the Fathom F113 and like what I see! I've been in a debate to try out the Klipsch THX Ultra2 subs (2 of them with the amp) and see how they perform, or go for a single F113 (with the thought of going to two shortly after).

Would I need the SMS-1 still if I went with the F113 since it has the ARO? I know I would need to keep it for the Klipsch's if I went that route. Has anyone had experience with all three subs before? I want to make sure I'm going to see, uh, well, FEEL the difference from what I have now to something new.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

The F113 is a wonderful sub but have you looked at Craig's ratings lately? The SVS Ultra 13 is in a class of its own (109 vs. 103) and you can have two for the price of one F113. Albeit the SVS is bigger than the smaller F113 but in sheer WOW power, the Ultra wins hands down.

The F113 is a wonderful sub but have you looked at Craig's ratings lately? The SVS Ultra 13 is in a class of its own (109 vs. 103) and you can have two for the price of one F113. Albeit the SVS is bigger than the smaller F113 but in sheer WOW power, the Ultra wins hands down.

You do realize this is a JL f113 support thread, not a thread comparing the f113 with the Ultra13?

The F113 is a wonderful sub but have you looked at Craig's ratings lately? The SVS Ultra 13 is in a class of its own (109 vs. 103) and you can have two for the price of one F113. Albeit the SVS is bigger than the smaller F113 but in sheer WOW power, the Ultra wins hands down.

Thanks, but no thanks. I can safely say the SVS brand is not for me. I did some visits to folks that had them and was simply not impressed like everyone seems to be around here. Now, I will say the auditions I have done have all been of their cylinders (one even had 4 of them), so I haven't seen/heard/felt the smaller box designs from them. Maybe I should take a look at one before completely dismissing them? :confused:



I'll take the SVS discussions there if I decide to do so. Right now, I'm interested in the F113.

Quick question here.

I'm currently running 2 M&K MX-350 subs in my theater hooked into an SMS-1. I've stumbled across this thread several times and have done some research on the Fathom F113 and like what I see! I've been in a debate to try out the Klipsch THX Ultra2 subs (2 of them with the amp) and see how they perform, or go for a single F113 (with the thought of going to two shortly after).

Would I need the SMS-1 still if I went with the F113 since it has the ARO? I know I would need to keep it for the Klipsch's if I went that route. Has anyone had experience with all three subs before? I want to make sure I'm going to see, uh, well, FEEL the difference from what I have now to something new.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

I have not heard the Ultra2 sub but have dual F113’s and an SMS-1. Depending on placement and your room ARO may be all you need. I find the SMS-1 in combination with ARO was helpful in smoothing the bass response in my HT. The good news is you already have the SMS-1 and regardless of your sub selection, you can try it and see for yourself.

I have not heard the Ultra2 sub but have dual F113’s and an SMS-1. Depending on placement and your room ARO may be all you need. I find the SMS-1 in combination with ARO was helpful in smoothing the bass response in my HT. The good news is you already have the SMS-1 and regardless of your sub selection, you can try it and see for yourself.

So true! The SMS is a nifty little device. I could still go in there and tweak and tweak and tweak.

I watched the video on this and the Gotham and that is very impressive. I love having the controls handy in the front. Right now, mine are a pain to get to. Still doing some research here...

The F113 is a wonderful sub but have you looked at Craig's ratings lately? The SVS Ultra 13 is in a class of its own (109 vs. 103) and you can have two for the price of one F113. Albeit the SVS is bigger than the smaller F113 but in sheer WOW power, the Ultra wins hands down.


You again !!!! :eek:

You are in great need of a major transplant, to replace the cinder block your doctor calls brain.

This is the JL Audio Fathom thread, do you understand ? Hello anybody home ? Hello... no no avail.




In other news...should I really buy that Gotham...should I ? With all the kids running around pointing to some thread as it was some ultimate validation tool ?

Well yes I should because I trust nobody just my subbish selfish ear. And the Fathoms are subnsonic goodness.

The F113 is a wonderful sub but have you looked at Craig's ratings lately? The SVS Ultra 13 is in a class of its own (109 vs. 103) and you can have two for the price of one F113. Albeit the SVS is bigger than the smaller F113 but in sheer WOW power, the Ultra wins hands down.

You don't see me going to the SVS Ultra 13 threads and touting the Fathom 113's tremendous power in a small WAF enclosure?

Different strokes for different folks.

You don't see me going to the SVS Ultra 13 threads and touting the Fathom 113's tremendous power in a small WAF enclosure?

Different strokes for different folks.

Of course you wouldn't tout the F113 on the SVS threads....the smaller and rather diminutive F113 has a lower rating than the SVS.

Cheers and good luck!;)

getech... Hmmm???

Are you the getech that is a disenfranchised JL Audio dealer?

getech... Hmmm???

Are you the getech that is a disenfranchised JL Audio dealer?


Yes, getech is the disenfranchised JL Audio dealer now turned JL Audio troll. :eek:

getech = ignore

In better news I am getting my second f112 in March. This way dual f113's and dual f112's. When its done I will post pics of the sub human family. :D

Hey that's great news.We definitely want to see the pics. I just picked up dual F113's last week.:D

Apparently getech can only read others' opinions, because the two appendages on the sides of his head don't work!
One day he will discover what they are for.

Apparently getech can only read others' opinions, because the two appendages on the sides of his head don't work!
One day he will discover what they are for.

Are you referring to testicles?

Are you referring to testicles?

http://smiliesftw.com/x/smiley-rofl.gif

Gaddamit Rob, you just made me spew my coffee all over my work monitor!!!:mad:....Now I gotta go clean this mess. But that was SPOT ON!http://smiliesftw.com/x/laugh2.gif

I know that this thread is dedicated to the f113, but am curious what you guys think.

I have an f113 in my HT that is appox 13x22x8, with cathedral ceilings that go to probably 10'. This opens up to my kitchen and front hallway, the former probably about the same dimensions as the HT room. I've recently kicked around the idea of selling my f113 and getting a Gotham, but have this fear that it will completely overpower the room. A second f113 is also possible, but the Gotham is a fascinating option, and am looking for some feedback. An in-home demo is out of the question obviously. Thoughts?

if your room can handle dual fathoms, it can handle a gotham. go for it!! :)

shut up 'dual Fathoms are better people', you guys wanna see a gotham or not? ;)

I know that this thread is dedicated to the f113, but am curious what you guys think.

I have an f113 in my HT that is appox 13x22x8, with cathedral ceilings that go to probably 10'. This opens up to my kitchen and front hallway, the former probably about the same dimensions as the HT room. I've recently kicked around the idea of selling my f113 and getting a Gotham, but have this fear that it will completely overpower the room. A second f113 is also possible, but the Gotham is a fascinating option, and am looking for some feedback. An in-home demo is out of the question obviously. Thoughts?

If you are looking for more LFE, then the Gotham will certainly give you that. I don't think it will overpower your open room. In fact, even the mighty Gotham will not pressurize a large open space like that … but it will sound incredible ;).

BTW, I’m one of those dual Fathom owners whom have been instructed not to recommend same.:p

haha. now I feel guilty.

minardi, if you search this thread, you will see Manville (JL rep) say that DUAL fathoms will outgun the Gotham plus you get placement flexibility.

but they will NOT BE AS COOL as the gotham :)

if you get the gotham, you can come back here and tell everyone in this thread (since it's the fathom thread) that you're cooler. :)

This was Mr. Smiths quote and comment on the Gotham and dual Fathoms.

Originally Posted by msmith_JL View Post
Pradeep, the Gotham is similar in performance to what you could expect from a pair of f113's stacked one on top of the other. The Gotham's drivers are a bit different (as is the net box volume per driver) and there is a little bit less power (3800W vs 5000 on the twin f113's), but it all works out about the same in terms of response and SPL.

Feature-wise, the Gotham and the Fathoms are identical. So, in essence Nethomas is correct that the premium for the Gotham is mostly for its cosmetic effect. Given the choice, I would go with multiple Fathoms and distribute them to create a large zone of smooth bass response. We used six f112's at CEDIA this year all along the front wall of the room spread out laterally with a couple displaced vertically and the bass was the best bass we've had yet. For real-world theaters, a pair of smartly placed f113's is a pretty outstanding package.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

It would be nice to have that Gotham no doubt. Brilliant eye candy. A couple of the guys over at the 20K forum as you know have them and I think OB has two in his theater. Yet, having the Gotham definitely makes you an exclusive AVS'er. However, having 4 Fathom's places you in the Elite AVS'er category. Me, I got one and ran out of room for another unless I'd knock a wall out!! :p

actually, having 4 wouldn't be special ... Bogg already has 4 :)

"be a man!" - Russell Peters

get the Gotham :)

actually, having 4 wouldn't be special ... Bogg already has 4 :)

"be a man!" - Russell Peters

get the Gotham :)

I know.. Maybe he needs 4 Fathoms and 2 Gotham's?? :) Now wouldn't that be something else??

yep, who needs speakers when you can have 7 subwoofers and one center channel speaker = 7.1

One Gotham is great...four Fathom subs are simply better performers. Say dual f113's and dual f112's. :D

Yep yep,front row and backed by a few large EBS monsters. Should be plenty O headroom in the room.


Two identical quality subs are always better than one slightly higher output.Unless you have two of these ...Gotham subs.

Four Gothams would pretty much settle this whole argument. :D

yep, who needs speakers when you can have 7 subwoofers and one center channel speaker = 7.1


...or is that 1.7? :D

Four Gothams would pretty much settle this whole argument. :D

MS

Are we talking about $40K? How about a kidney instead? :D

Four Gothams would pretty much settle this whole argument. :D

are you buying me lunch down in Pembroke Mall if that happens? :D

...or is that 1.7? :D

I thought the same thing last evening, but my math skills after 8 PM just seem to go away. :)

MS

Are we talking about $40K? How about a kidney instead? :D

Well, you don't need two kidneys, but you do need at least two subwoofers. :p

Well, you don't need two kidneys, but you do need at least two subwoofers. :p

Sounds like the new JL marketing slogan.:D

Four Gothams would pretty much settle this whole argument. :D

that would take care of the LFE channel

don't forget 7 more for the other channels :cool:

actually, having 4 wouldn't be special ... Bogg already has 4 :)

"be a man!" - Russell Peters

get the Gotham :)

dammit, I am special, my momma says so!

pictures coming soon as we're nearing the end of the media room build.

Thanks for the comments - - a few made me laugh!

Dual f113s while possible, wouldn't be my first choice due to placement of a second and its cabling. Optimally I'd place the second on the opposite wall of the one I have, but there's a six foot patio door there along with the dog's bed. That would leave me with the corners . . . not good.

The Gotham is an interesting idea becase I can put one in the same footprint as my f113. But dropping that kind of coin for one without actually trying it in my room would be a colossal leap of faith. If for some reason it doesn't work out, my buyer's remorse would be epic.

I'd go with another F113. Save the cash and figure out the cabling arrangement.

You need AC (it would be great if it was on the same circuit as F113 #1 if not a circuit on the same phase ie: same side of panel) and a balanced (XLR) cable between the two subs (this can be a good quality mic cable even such as Whirlwind for example or just make one, pins 1-1, 2-2 and 3-3).

Vada bing vada BOOM...

You guys do know what JL stands for right?

Just Laughing ..... all the way to the bank. :D

The Gotham is an interesting idea becase I can put one in the same footprint as my f113. But dropping that kind of coin for one without actually trying it in my room would be a colossal leap of faith. If for some reason it doesn't work out, my buyer's remorse would be epic.

You gotta have faith, man! :D

You know how the f113 performs, now imagine it with about 6dB more headroom, a bit more resolution and looking dead sexy, too.

msmith_jl :

Just a question: If one have a pre/pro with 2 or 3 balanced outputs (XLR) for subwoofer, LFE left and right. What is best way to go.. have two F113 connected to each of outputs on processor or connect two f123 in a chain and one cable to processor ?

Thinking on buying denon avp-a1hd

Anyone know what the power consumption is between the F112 and F113?

I'm leaning towards the F113, but that extra 1000 watts sounds like it consumes a lot more electricity.

Anyone know what the power consumption is between the F112 and F113?

I'm leaning towards the F113, but that extra 1000 watts sounds like it consumes a lot more electricity.

Actually, for a given output level, the f113 consumes less than the f112 (it's more efficient)... it's only when you are entering the region beyond the f112's performance envelope that the f113 will draw more current so it will be for short durations only and well within the capacity of a typical household circuit.

I'd go with another F113. Save the cash and figure out the cabling arrangement.

You need AC (it would be great if it was on the same circuit as F113 #1 if not a circuit on the same phase ie: same side of panel) and a balanced (XLR) cable between the two subs (this can be a good quality mic cable even such as Whirlwind for example or just make one, pins 1-1, 2-2 and 3-3).

Vada bing vada BOOM...


MMiles,

It's rather ironic you should post that. I have just as of this morning now have both Fathom F113's working courtesy of a spare XLR cable to slave the second Fathom. I have them on the same dedicated circuit. I am amazed at the change in the room response with the second sub playing.WOW, dual subs do make a difference. I am doing music during the day to test and movies tonight. First test disc will be Master and Commander.:D

msmith_jl :

Just a question: If one have a pre/pro with 2 or 3 balanced outputs (XLR) for subwoofer, LFE left and right. What is best way to go.. have two F113 connected to each of outputs on processor or connect two f123 in a chain and one cable to processor ?

Thinking on buying denon avp-a1hd

Holy mackerel, that thing is complicated... very cool, too. I took a look through the Denon manual and it looks like the best approach would be to connect the Fathoms individually to the left and right sub outputs via XLR cables. The bass management of the Denon is pretty darned complete so this should allow you to adjust parameters for 2 channels or multi-channel on the fly.

To set up the Fathoms, you would run ARO independently for each subwoofer (one at a time).

Holy mackerel, that thing is complicated... very cool, too. I took a look through the Denon manual and it looks like the best approach would be to connect the Fathoms individually to the left and right sub outputs via XLR cables. The bass management of the Denon is pretty darned complete so this should allow you to adjust parameters for 2 channels or multi-channel on the fly.

To set up the Fathoms, you would run ARO independently for each subwoofer (one at a time).

MSmith_JL,


Gee, that's what Ward told me to do last week! ;) I still can't believe how much more dynamic and powerful the room is with the second Fathom operating. What would you recommend connection wise for the Denon 3808CI? It has no balanced dual sub outputs. Just a single RCA connection. I plan on running a Y splitter out of the Denon into two seperate RCA cables to each Fathom. I already have run ARO on each woofer seperately.

MSmith_JL,


Gee, that's what Ward told me to do last week! ;)

At least we're consistent! ;)

I still can't believe how much more dynamic and powerful the room is with the second Fathom operating.

Everything gets better with a second sub. Output, FR, Dynamics, Resolution, you name it.

What would you recommend connection wise for the Denon 3808CI? It has no balanced dual sub outputs. Just a single RCA connection. I plan on running a Y splitter out of the Denon into two seperate RCA cables to each Fathom. I already have run ARO on each woofer seperately.

That should work fine. If there isn't enough signal level for the Fathom's auto-turn on to work reliably, you may need to split the signal again at each Fathom and feed both the L and R RCA inputs.

proud new F113 owner here...:)

i ran the ARO test and according to the sub my level should be around +14

this seems to be at the tip top of the volume of the sub, is this normal?

the sub level on my Marantz receiver is set to "0"

i don't mind controlling the sub volume on the sub (maybe this is preferred?) but just was surprised that i had to turn (the sub volume) up that much

any help would be great

thanks!

brad

proud new F113 owner here...:)

i ran the ARO test and according to the sub my level should be around +14

this seems to be at the tip top of the volume of the sub, is this normal?

the sub level on my Marantz receiver is set to "0"

i don't mind controlling the sub volume on the sub (maybe this is preferred?) but just was surprised that i had to turn (the sub volume) up that much

any help would be great

thanks!

brad

Hey Brad,

Manville will give the official response here, but I ran into the same thing when setting up my F113.

ARO may require nearly maxxing the volume for its equalization purposes, but you'll switch back from that (between the reference and variable switch) to your AVR or pre-pro calibrated level once ARO is done. Check back through the manual for the exact procedure...

BTW, do you know any Lindemans from Rochester NY?

Enjoy the little black beast--it is amazing...

Phil

Brad,

I had the same problem here on setup. I actually ran ARO again before readjusting the master level and somehow when I ran it the second time the LED lit up solid? Are any of you using the Fathom's LP filter and crossover settings for HT or just using your pre-pro's controls. I'm not sure if I have my levels too high,or just getting used to dual subs putting out some serious SPL's. I believe it's the latter.

During calibration, the pre-pro's sub level is immaterial. The tones are internally generated in the Fathom.

It is quite common to have to raise the Fathom's level to almost max for calibration. Especially, if there is low-freq. noise (HVAC, typically) in the room or if its a large space. The Fathom needs a lot of level above the noise floor to get a clean measurement. Once ARO has done its thing, then you will reduce the Level and calibrate the subwoofer level for your system.

Okay round two. I went thru the required demo discs of both music and movies. If there are sub bass notes in the recording the Fathoms will reproduce them easily. I still need to play with them a little more with positioning further away from the walls to dial it in correctly. I now know that two Fathom 113's are just right for my 20x15ft room.

I've definitely found every loose item nearby. I'm still grinning ear to ear, these subwoofers really have the theater room and house shaking. I stood outside listening to a tone sweep disc and watched the front door and windows vibrate! :eek:

I was watching Ratatoulie last night. My wife came running down to the HT and complained that the lamps in the great room were rattling and the floor shaking. YES!!!
(twin fathom 11s)

I was watching Ratatoulie last night. My wife came running down to the HT and complained that the lamps in the great room were rattling and the floor shaking. YES!!!
(twin fathom 11s)

If you guys want to avoid divorce, you can use the e.l.f. trim to dial back the extreme low end a bit... or you can leave it alone if bottom end is more important. :D

Just got my JL Audio F112 on Friday, and already I think i may have an issue. :(

When i push the "Demo" button and the sub sweeps through various frequencies, there is one moment in the demo where i can hear a faint clicking noise in the woofer. It goes on for about 10 sec on a certain frequency. It is noticeable if your a foot away.

Trying to narrow down the frequency, I downloaded the RealTraps frequency test CD and went through the various tracks. I immediately noticed that on track 2, which is the 20Hz test, I get the same faint clicking noise in the woofer. It makes a sound as if you graze your finger over the woofer, like a higher pich tapping/clicking noise, which is directly coming from inside the woofer. The clicking is audible from about a foot from the sub. Just to make sure i was over the limits of the sub, I took out my SPL meter and I measured the output at about 80db from 2meters away, which is within the limits of this sub., so i don't think its a distortion issue. The clicking progressively increases in volume as i get to 90db. It sounds abnormal.

I tested other frequencies and it happens only from about 15Hz - 23Hz starting at about 80db.

Is my Fathom defective????

Thanks All!!!

To the f113 owners

Can anybody post a excursion video of the driver under full excursion at really low frequencies?

To the f113 owners

Can anybody post a excursion video of the driver under full excursion at really low frequencies?

JL Audio already has one on their site.

glennQ

Just got my JL Audio F112 on Friday, and already I think i may have an issue. :(

When i push the "Demo" button and the sub sweeps through various frequencies, there is one moment in the demo where i can hear a faint clicking noise in the woofer. It goes on for about 10 sec on a certain frequency. It is noticeable if your a foot away.

Trying to narrow down the frequency, I downloaded the RealTraps frequency test CD and went through the various tracks. I immediately noticed that on track 2, which is the 20Hz test, I get the same faint clicking noise in the woofer. It makes a sound as if you graze your finger over the woofer, like a higher pich tapping/clicking noise, which is directly coming from inside the woofer. The clicking is audible from about a foot from the sub. Just to make sure i was over the limits of the sub, I took out my SPL meter and I measured the output at about 80db from 2meters away, which is within the limits of this sub., so i don't think its a distortion issue. The clicking progressively increases in volume as i get to 90db. It sounds abnormal.

I tested other frequencies and it happens only from about 15Hz - 23Hz starting at about 80db.

Is my Fathom defective????

Thanks All!!!

Update:

So i called JL Audio and spoke to a technician and he too confirmed that it was a defect. I did some searching on this long thread and found a similar issue to mine:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=9945721&postcount=1597

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=9947522&postcount=1617

Mine does not sound as bad as this users sub, but it is still apparent. Needless to say the good folks at Gensen here in Canada replaced it for me. Decided to take the opportunity and go all the way for the F113!!!

Will report back...

That's good news. We want to hear your opinion when your up and running.

Two disconcerting issues i noticed with my new F113

1) When listening at moderate levels (65db), the sub never turns on. I have the power switch set on AUTO and to get the sub to turn on i have to raise my volume to fairly loud levels above 80db. When i turn the volume back down to normal listening levels, the sub turns off!!! I would expect there should be enough input voltage to have the sub left on.

2) When nothing is connected to the sub, and it is solely turned on it's own, I hear a faint snow like sound (scratchy noise) coming from the woofer. I hear this about a foot away and in my very quiet listening room it can be noticeable. I played with the Ground/Isolated postions and i keep it at isolated since it removes a lower toned buzz, but even at this setting i still hear this snow-like sound.

Anyone have issues like these on their F113???

So far i can't say i've been pleased with this sub!!! :mad:

Mr- manville Smith???

1) It would appear you need to boost the sub-out volume on your AVR/pre and lower the gain knob on the JL sub to get back to the same calibrated level. Then the sub should have more input voltage for the auto-on to kick in even at lower main levels.

2) Are you using balanced input?

1) It would appear you need to boost the sub-out volume on your AVR/pre and lower the gain knob on the JL sub to get back to the same calibrated level. Then the sub should have more input voltage for the auto-on to kick in even at lower main levels.

2) Are you using balanced input?

Currently i have my sub set at -5 in my receiver, so i'll trying re-calibrating to 0.

I am using RCA interconnects, but even without it connected I still hear this snow-like noise. I even tried the F113 on a different outlet and same thing! My other components don't exhibit ANY noises at all.

To be clear, this is actually the second F113 as the first one i got had the same issue, albeit it was much louder with this snow-like sound. If i were to change this sub out yet again it would be the THIRD time and frankly I am tired of moving this thing around!!! First was the F112 clicking, then the first F113 with the louder snow noise and now this one with the same thing!!!!

My gain is set on Variable and i tried the setting on 0 - MAX and i still hear this noise, no matter the setting.

Is this normal??? Is anyone hearing this in their subs. I don't recall hearing this when i had the F112, so maybe it's just a bad batch that went to Canada???

It is normal to hear noises coming from the woofer when there is no input. But it's not normal that you can hear it a foot away. Normally you can only hear that sound when you're putting your ear on the woofer.

It is normal to hear noises coming from the woofer when there is no input. But it's not normal that you can hear it a foot away. Normally you can only hear that sound when you're putting your ear on the woofer.

I agree, and that would be acceptable to me if it was just a few inches away, but i hear at 1-2ft away and having all my other components dead quiet doesn't help.

I just tried plugging it in my Richard Gray 600s conditioner and same thing!

It's sad i waited for about a year to save up for this awesome sub and i get 3 duds in a row!! :(

I agree, and that would be acceptable to me if it was just a few inches away, but i hear at 1-2ft away and having all my other components dead quiet doesn't help.

I just tried plugging it in my Richard Gray 600s conditioner and same thing!

It's sad i waited for about a year to save up for this awesome sub and i get 3 duds in a row!! :(



Strange issues indeed? I have two in operation and have had zero problems since the first day? It even helped me find and eliminate a ground loop with my Direct DVR box! I believe in the manual there's a section on noise issues with the sub.

Called tech support at JL Audio to hear what they say about this...and they said they will get back to me.

Hopefully i get a timely response on this.

scanido,

Sure sounds like a ground hum. Time to start unplugging things. Start with unplugging the input wire to the sub.

If you guys want to avoid divorce, you can use the e.l.f. trim to dial back the extreme low end a bit... or you can leave it alone if bottom end is more important. :D

Or just pay more attention to your wife's bottom end...

scanido,

Sure sounds like a ground hum. Time to start unplugging things. Start with unplugging the input wire to the sub.

Did you read my earlier posts?

I disconnected the input cables to the sub and disconnected all adjacent components from the same outlet the F113 was plugged to. Same thing. Tried on another outlet and same thing.

If it was a ground loop issue then i would think the gain control would amplify the ground noise when i turn down/up the level, in this case i gain control does nothing. It's still there at MIN level setting.

I could hear it about a foot away from the woofer, quite subtle, but it is there. I don't expect this from this level of gear!

In any case, the tech support rep i spoke to escalated it to the Director so i would think this hasn't happened before.

Hey scanido, I can only hear humming from my JL F112 if I put my ear two inches from the woofer. The volume on the sub is about 25% up and -10dB on my receiver.

The problem with the sub not waking up is pretty common with many subs. That's why I just leave mine set to "on" all the time.

I had to bump up the sub out on my preamp to +6 dB to get my f112 to come on automatically. I had to dial down the gain from 12 to 9 o'clock. Does the Fathom consume more power if it's idling in the ON mode than AUTO?

I had to bump up the sub out on my preamp to +6 dB to get my f112 to come on automatically. I had to dial down the gain from 12 to 9 o'clock. Does the Fathom consume more power if it's idling in the ON mode than AUTO?


I believe it does consume more than auto does.

Hey scanido, I can only hear humming from my JL F112 if I put my ear two inches from the woofer. The volume on the sub is about 25% up and -10dB on my receiver.

The problem with the sub not waking up is pretty common with many subs. That's why I just leave mine set to "on" all the time.

Thanks xcjago! If you disconnect your input cable, can you hear anything coming for your F112 or is it dead silent, and no crackling/snow like noise??

Regarding the turn-on, i too had to up the sub levels in my receiver and subsequently turn down the gain on the F113. So far so good, it can now turn on automatically at a lower volume.

I tried turning the volume on my F112 up to 75% to hear if there was any difference. With the sub cable unplugged, I just hear humming. When I plug it in, I hear the humming plus a little bit of crackling sound. When I turn the gain back down to my usual 25% I can barely hear anything unless I put my ear right next to the woofer.

I tried turning the volume on my F112 up to 75% to hear if there was any difference. With the sub cable unplugged, I just hear humming. When I plug it in, I hear the humming plus a little bit of crackling sound. When I turn the gain back down to my usual 25% I can barely hear anything unless I put my ear right next to the woofer.

It sounds like yours is normal. Thanks for reporting back!

scanido where exactly are you located in Canada, are you local to the GTA? I've had my f113 for over a year and have had absolutely no problems,....great sub. The low level sensitivity should have been fixed in the latest batch of subs, just use a "Y" splitter connected to both low level inputs and that should fix that problem. Some noise is not uncommon but you shouldn't notice it a couple feet away,...that's odd. Have you tried setting it to fixed level and use your pre to adjust level?

UPDATE:

Just got a response from JL Audio Tech Support, from the director.

Apparently it is normal to hear some kind of noise from the F113 within a foot away from the woofer when no input cable is connected to it. Since the amplifier is rated 2500w, this is expected.

Obviously this noise varies then from one F113 to another as my first one taken home had a much louder noise when at idle. I'm happy that the one i have now is much more silent.

Time to move on and enjoy this beast!!!!!

I have the opportunity to buy a used f113 from a guy that works at the stereo store for $2,600. Otherwise I could get a new f112 for $2,350 + tax =$2,490 or a new f113 for $2,890 + tax = $3,060. Unit is in good shape, used about one year, don't know anything else about condition. All satin black. Rest of system will likely be Denon 4308 running Paradigm Studio 100 v4s, CC-690, ADP-590s. Room is 20W x 30D w/ vaulted, listening position 9' from speakers. Thoughts on which one I should buy and why?

I have the opportunity to buy a used f113 from a guy that works at the stereo store for $2,600. Otherwise I could get a new f112 for $2,350 + tax =$2,490 or a new f113 for $2,890 + tax = $3,060. Unit is in good shape, used about one year, don't know anything else about condition. All satin black. Rest of system will likely be Denon 4308 running Paradigm Studio 100 v4s, CC-690, ADP-590s. Room is 20W x 30D w/ vaulted, listening position 9' from speakers. Thoughts on which one I should buy and why?

You have over 6000 cubic feet of volume to fill, which is huge (you did not specifiy whether the room was open to other areas of the house, which would make it "huger")! The listening position does not really matter as a sub "pressurizes" the entire space and is not directional. I would suggest going for the f113 simply because it moves more air, which is likely to be a key consideration in a room that size.

If the sub is in good shape, and warranty is transferable (I think it is) then I'd go with the used one.

definitely 113. More efficient, more power, tad more extension. If you can swing it, no brainer.

If the sub is in good shape, and warranty is transferable (I think it is) then I'd go with the used one.


Unfortunately, the warranty is not transferrable.

"The following is not covered under JL Audio’s warranty program:

2. Product owned by anyone other than the original purchaser from an authorized JL Audio dealer. (The warranty is not transferable and will not apply to products purchased from unauthorized dealers.)"

If the sub is in good shape, and warranty is transferable (I think it is) then I'd go with the used one.

I don't know if the warranty is transferable. Maybe it is if the guy in the stereo store is an Authorized dealer? A demo unit? I know used stuff on Agon is not transferable.

WARRANTY LIMITATIONS
The following is not covered under JL Audio’s warranty program:

2. Product owned by anyone other than the original purchaser from an authorized JL Audio dealer. (The warranty is not transferable and will not apply to products purchased from unauthorized dealers.)

You have over 6000 cubic feet of volume to fill, which is huge (you did not specifiy whether the room was open to other areas of the house, which would make it "huger")!

HT is in a LR that is open to a DR directly behind and Kitchen behind and to right, all with vaulted ceilings (essentially one big room). Listening position is only 9' from front speakers, but total room volume is probably 8k ft3. So I guess the f113 it is.

I was just about to include the warranty info from the web site but then read the posts. So the question is, do I pay the extra $450 to get a new piece with the 3-yr warranty? The assumption that it is in good condition with average 1-yr use.

I was just about to include the warranty info from the web site but then read the posts. So the question is, do I pay the extra $450 to get a new piece with the 3-yr warranty? The assumption that it is in good condition with average 1-yr use.

Subjective opinion for everyone and because you asked..... I love the smell of new, unopened equipment plus if there are any problems, you know your woofer is covered. Get the new one for the price difference IMO.

I also think unless that used sub if not sold with a warranty, that the price is rather high.

I have the opportunity to buy a used f113 from a guy that works at the stereo store for $2,600. Otherwise I could get a new f112 for $2,350 + tax =$2,490 or a new f113 for $2,890 + tax = $3,060. Unit is in good shape, used about one year, don't know anything else about condition. All satin black. Rest of system will likely be Denon 4308 running Paradigm Studio 100 v4s, CC-690, ADP-590s. Room is 20W x 30D w/ vaulted, listening position 9' from speakers. Thoughts on which one I should buy and why?

I suggest that you go with a new F113 because you have a huge room. You're only saving $450 for a 1 year old f113, which isn't worth it, plus you lose the warranty.

Agree, the warranty is really important. All it takes is one failure and you already would absorb the $450 that you saved by not buying New.

If you live in the US that price is not very good for the used one, you should be able to get a new F113 for less than the price you have listed...

As far as the sub filling the room goes, that's a very large space to fill. Have you tried any subs in the actual room and did you find that you could get enough output to meet your needs?

I just got the auto sensing circuit to finally work for me over the weekend reliably!!

I had to set the level of my mains to -4 and the F113 to +5 and correspondingly set the sub's master gain to the 8:00 position. This is a 9db difference from the mains to the sub and a low gain on the control knob! It appears the auto sensing circuit is extremely insensitive on these subs!

Anyone get results like this with the AUTO mode???

I find it hard to believe this doesn't degrade the SQ in anyway having it leveled this way.

I just got the auto sensing circuit to finally work for me over the weekend reliably!!

I had to set the level of my mains to -4 and the F113 to +5 and correspondingly set the sub's master gain to the 8:00 position. This is a 9db difference from the mains to the sub and a low gain on the control knob! It appears the auto sensing circuit is extremely insensitive on these subs!

Anyone get results like this with the AUTO mode???

I find it hard to believe this doesn't degrade the SQ in anyway having it leveled this way.

It won't degrade SQ... if anything, it would actually improve the SQ to have more signal level coming in and less gain in the unit.

Are you feeding both the left and right sub inputs on the f113, or just one? If it's the latter, you can get more sensitive turn-on by using a y-splitter at the sub and feeding both the left and right inputs.

I just got the auto sensing circuit to finally work for me over the weekend reliably!!

I had to set the level of my mains to -4 and the F113 to +5 and correspondingly set the sub's master gain to the 8:00 position. This is a 9db difference from the mains to the sub and a low gain on the control knob! It appears the auto sensing circuit is extremely insensitive on these subs!

Anyone get results like this with the AUTO mode???

I find it hard to believe this doesn't degrade the SQ in anyway having it leveled this way.

That has been my experience with my f112. I had to set sub to +6 dB in my preamp and the master gain at 9 o'clock. I didn't need to adjust my mains though. I don't think it will degrade the sound unless you got a weak preamp. Actually I think it sounds a little more "punchy."

It won't degrade SQ... if anything, it would actually improve the SQ to have more signal level coming in and less gain in the unit.

Are you feeding both the left and right sub inputs on the f113, or just one? If it's the latter, you can get more sensitive turn-on by using a y-splitter at the sub and feeding both the left and right inputs.

Yes, I am also using a Y cable.

@Ron Alcasid
Are you also using a Y cable?

Yes, I am also using a Y cable.

@Ron Alcasid
Are you also using a Y cable?

No. I was going to try a Y cable this weekend but didn't get around to it.

msmith,
My preamp has balanced outputs. Would the auto on work better using the balanced inputs?

In my own system, I use balanced cables and the auto-turnon works fine with just one input being fed. It really depends on the strength of the signal coming from the pre-pro or receiver.

Well after a few weeks of research and an impressive demo at my local dealer, I am now the owner of a brand new JL Fathom F113. I was comparing it with the REL R-505 but decided since I do 95% HT that this was the better option. It was a too late when I finally got it home last night to open it but tonight I am hoping to get it all setup. It was very interesting lifting it off the back of my SUV and walking it to my living room. Almost had a mishap when I finally made it to the living room. Luckily it is packed very durably with the big plastic coasters underneath.

I will be connecting it via and an Audioquest RCA sub cable to my Parasound C2 processor. This is replacing an 8 or 9 year old Velodyne 12" sub that I do not even remember the model of. I am hoping the setup will be straightforward with the microphone setup. Anyone with a Parasound processor have any configuration suggestions on that end. I am guessing I will initially leave the processor settings for the sub alone and just do the initial AOR setup.

Congrat's HJJ! How's the setup going?
I don't have a Parasound processor, but setup should be a snap.

Steve

Well after a few weeks of research and an impressive demo at my local dealer, I am now the owner of a brand new JL Fathom F113. I was comparing it with the REL R-505 but decided since I do 95% HT that this was the better option. It was a too late when I finally got it home last night to open it but tonight I am hoping to get it all setup. It was very interesting lifting it off the back of my SUV and walking it to my living room. Almost had a mishap when I finally made it to the living room. Luckily it is packed very durably with the big plastic coasters underneath.

I will be connecting it via and an Audioquest RCA sub cable to my Parasound C2 processor. This is replacing an 8 or 9 year old Velodyne 12" sub that I do not even remember the model of. I am hoping the setup will be straightforward with the microphone setup. Anyone with a Parasound processor have any configuration suggestions on that end. I am guessing I will initially leave the processor settings for the sub alone and just do the initial AOR setup.

Outstanding! Very interested to hear your results. I have a C1 and have been taking a hard look here at the F113's. You could even go the balanced route if you want! Congrats on your new toy. Lucky dog!

Well after a few weeks of research and an impressive demo at my local dealer, I am now the owner of a brand new JL Fathom F113. I was comparing it with the REL R-505 but decided since I do 95% HT that this was the better option. It was a too late when I finally got it home last night to open it but tonight I am hoping to get it all setup. It was very interesting lifting it off the back of my SUV and walking it to my living room. Almost had a mishap when I finally made it to the living room. Luckily it is packed very durably with the big plastic coasters underneath.

I will be connecting it via and an Audioquest RCA sub cable to my Parasound C2 processor. This is replacing an 8 or 9 year old Velodyne 12" sub that I do not even remember the model of. I am hoping the setup will be straightforward with the microphone setup. Anyone with a Parasound processor have any configuration suggestions on that end. I am guessing I will initially leave the processor settings for the sub alone and just do the initial AOR setup.

So how does it sound? I think you're probably watching an array of movies right now. :D

Well, I spent alot longer than I expected to get the thing calibrated. I guess I was getting conflicting information from salesman versus what the manual was saying. Here is what I did:

1. set sub level on my Parasound C2 processor to 0db.
2. set all speakers to small on the C2 speaker setup.
3. Re-ran the microphone auto-calibration for my speakers & sub at the C2. (Sort of contradicts step one but that is what I was told to do. I am also unsure of the results of the sub calibration as it left me at -4.5db??)
4. Switched F113 sub power switch from auto to "on".
5. Level mode switch was set to "REF" ---(note: not sure where it belongs nomally)
6. set LP Freq to ~80Hz
7. set e.l.f, polarity, phase and Master level to "0"
8. Plugged in the A.R.O. mic and pressed the calibration mode.


Results:
After going through a few tones for maybe 5 seconds I receved the error blinking calibration button. What I was not intially sure about was whether the processor and amp should be off when I ran this calibration. Then, I re-read the instructions and noticed that they did ay to turn it off. So finally with everything else off it seemed to calibrate with the constant green light on rather than the constant blinking I received for the first couple of hours.

I still am not sure it is setup quite right since I have noticed what some others have reported on as far as the sub not turning on in auto mode. Mine did eventually turn on but it waited for a large explosing in the movie to do so. I currently still have my master level set to "0" since I did not know if there was a reason to change it.

I have some reading to do in my C2 processor guide to see what settings need to be adjusted. I am not sure what the filter type should be set to: None, Lowpass or Highpass. The filter freq defaults to 80Hz. Maybe I should not even be using the filter at the processor? There is an option on the C2 setup for enhanced bass which would send bass from the chanels with "large" speakers to the sub as well. (So on the surface this sounds like it might be a good thing) Can any Parsound processor folks chime in??

HJJ, if you are using the bass management in the Parasound set the highpass crossover at 80hz (if that's the appropriate frequency) for the speakers designated small as well as the lowpass to the sub, and then bypass the crossover in the sub itself. Don't use "enhanced" bass (wouldn't matter anyway if all your speakers are set as small).

Setting the bass level can be done initially with an spl meter like the radio shack one but do tune by ear to your taste if you aren't satisfied with the measured settings for the sub output because the meters may not be really accurate.

You can change the levels to the sub to get the auto-on to turn on sooner, see the previous posts on this page.

Enjoy!

HJJ, if you are using the bass management in the Parasound set the highpass crossover at 80hz (if that's the appropriate frequency) for the speakers designated small as well as the lowpass to the sub, and then bypass the crossover in the sub itself. Don't use "enhanced" bass (wouldn't matter anyway if all your speakers are set as small).

Setting the bass level can be done initially with an spl meter like the radio shack one but do tune by ear to your taste if you aren't satisfied with the measured settings for the sub output because the meters may not be really accurate.

You can change the levels to the sub to get the auto-on to turn on sooner, see the previous posts on this page.

Enjoy!

Thanks for the info. My other speakers were only set to small initially to not interfere with the sub calibration. My fronts and centers are set as large and my rears are set to small. I will stay clear of the enhanced bass option but I am interested in having the sub "on" more. I know all sources do not constantly produce an LFE but I obviously want to get the most out of this sub. I did just go back and read the above posts and will do more tweaking tonight. I am sure I will be happy once I get it all setup.

I was confused by the fact that my salesman told me to go with the RCA cable but as I read the manul, JL says to use balanced if you have it on your processor. I do have it, so I wonder if it really would make a difference. I use balanced connectors between my amp and processor. I purchased an Audioquest Sub-1 RCA cable. But I have a feeling this should be fine.

HJJ...

ARO should be run completely independent of the rest of the audio system. Once you place the subwoofer, calibrate the ARO before you even connect the pre-pro. Don't worry about the level knob position on the subwoofer during ARO calibration... whatever it takes to get a calibration (usually a fairly high setting) is fine. The room must be quiet during calibration (especially at low frequencies). Turn off your home's forced-air heating or cooling during calibration.

Once ARO is calibrated, then turn on your heating/cooling and connect your system to the subwoofer to set levels, crossovers etc.

To make the auto turn-on more sensitive, try the following:

A) Raise the pre-pro's subwoofer output level and lower the Fathom's Master Level to get the level back where it needs to be sonically. This will drive the Fathom's inputs with more signal level and be more reliable at triggering a turn-on.
B) If A doesn't work, use a y-adaptor to feed both both the L and R inputs of the Fathom

Hope that helps,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Sad news.

I will be going for the fourth Fathom,but no Gotham for now. Still you JL guys should be happy 4 JL's at home aint that bad.

Sad news.

I will be going for the fourth Fathom,but no Gotham for now. Still you JL guys should be happy 4 JL's at home aint that bad.

Are you trying to cut back?

I was hoping you would hit that 4,000 lbs. of subwoofers mark by the end of the month:eek:

Your neighbors must think they live on the the most active fault line in the world:D

Sad news.

I will be going for the fourth Fathom,but no Gotham for now. Still you JL guys should be happy 4 JL's at home aint that bad.

Ear,

Times are tough my friend!! You have my deepest sympathies only having only 4 of those JL beauties!! You and Bogg have to meet and drown your sorrows with some strong libations to ease your pain. :eek: :D

:(

Yes times are tough, I have so little space each time I add a sub I have a hurting back...dozens of units to move...wheel out...set new subs,relocate...bring back...:p

Hey Ear,

Out of curiosity how many subs have you run at one time while playing a bass pig movie like War of the Worlds? Could you feel it in your bones:cool:

TheEAR, have you tried to calculate how much power you have altogether from all the subs? Maybe you'll beat 100000watts:D.

HJJ...

ARO should be run completely independent of the rest of the audio system. Once you place the subwoofer, calibrate the ARO before you even connect the pre-pro. Don't worry about the level knob position on the subwoofer during ARO calibration... whatever it takes to get a calibration (usually a fairly high setting) is fine. The room must be quiet during calibration (especially at low frequencies). Turn off your home's forced-air heating or cooling during calibration.

Once ARO is calibrated, then turn on your heating/cooling and connect your system to the subwoofer to set levels, crossovers etc.

To make the auto turn-on more sensitive, try the following:

A) Raise the pre-pro's subwoofer output level and lower the Fathom's Master Level to get the level back where it needs to be sonically. This will drive the Fathom's inputs with more signal level and be more reliable at triggering a turn-on.
B) If A doesn't work, use a y-adaptor to feed both both the L and R inputs of the Fathom

Hope that helps,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.


Thanks Manville, this really clarified it for me. I re-ran the ARO calibration last night with the RCA cable unplugged. I did have to turn the level up a bit since the first attemt at "0" did error out. But on this second attempt I heard things rattle in my house that I had never heard before. For a second it seemed like it pressurized my back door since my living room is open to the kitchen area.

Do you by chance have an opinion on balanced versus unbalanced cables. My salesman told me that if I did not have a long run then RCA would be best but the manual seemed to point to the fact that balanced was best if your processor has that capability

I did end up cranking my LFE level on my processor to -10db but I still was not sure it was triggering the sub any faster. Even though my source was only one of the XM music channels on Directv which really is only in PLII. But I guess it ocurred to me that I still would like to hear the bass from that music through my sub. The only way I was able to accomplish that was to utilize the extended bass feature of my processor which essentially sends the bass signal that goes to my front and center "large" speakers also to the sub. I am going to research this with Parasound to see their opinions of this and how it might affect my overal sound clarity.

Now when I did finally change to a true 5.1 source which was through an Xbox 360 demo of Frontlines, I was a bit impressed to say the least. I heard explosions that seemed to be all around me. It almost seemed like the sub was making me hear more bass out of my rear speakers as well. I still think I need to re-run my processor calibrations for my speakers again but I think I am well on the road to being a satisfied customer.

Does anyone have the dimensions of the F113 shipping package?

Does the F112 have some kind of built in limiter on it ? ...Is there fear of damaging the woofer if played to loudly ? or will it just roll off ( what it cant handle ).
Im asking because I have the grill off and I can see the woofer working like crazy and it scares me :)

psujohny...

There is a limiter but it is not as aggressive as the ones found on most subs. Overly aggressive limiting tends to sound bad, so we avoid it.

That being said, the drivers used in the Fathoms are designed to permit very long excursions... it's the main reason why they can be so capable in such a small package. It is possible, under some conditions, with some material, to overdrive the speaker so if you hear any kind of mechanical noise coming from the woofer you should turn it down. This is rare and only happens at ridiculously high playback levels (well beyond normal listening levels in most rooms). So, don't be scared unless you hear something other than bass coming out of them.

Thanks Manville, this really clarified it for me. I re-ran the ARO calibration last night with the RCA cable unplugged. I did have to turn the level up a bit since the first attemt at "0" did error out. But on this second attempt I heard things rattle in my house that I had never heard before. For a second it seemed like it pressurized my back door since my living room is open to the kitchen area.

Do you by chance have an opinion on balanced versus unbalanced cables. My salesman told me that if I did not have a long run then RCA would be best but the manual seemed to point to the fact that balanced was best if your processor has that capability

Balanced is generally more noise-immune... although our RCA inputs are optically isolated, so they're pretty darned noise free as well. Either way will work fine.

I did end up cranking my LFE level on my processor to -10db but I still was not sure it was triggering the sub any faster. Even though my source was only one of the XM music channels on Directv which really is only in PLII. But I guess it ocurred to me that I still would like to hear the bass from that music through my sub. The only way I was able to accomplish that was to utilize the extended bass feature of my processor which essentially sends the bass signal that goes to my front and center "large" speakers also to the sub. I am going to research this with Parasound to see their opinions of this and how it might affect my overal sound clarity.

If your mains are set to "small", then all of the low-frequencies should be steered to the sub output and the subwoofer. You may have different settings for two-channel, PLII and Dolby Digital, so read the Parasound manual to see if you need to set each type up individually.

I would raise the Parasound's sub output to 0 dB and lower the Fathom's Master Level to achieve the right balance.

Now when I did finally change to a true 5.1 source which was through an Xbox 360 demo of Frontlines, I was a bit impressed to say the least. I heard explosions that seemed to be all around me. It almost seemed like the sub was making me hear more bass out of my rear speakers as well. I still think I need to re-run my processor calibrations for my speakers again but I think I am well on the road to being a satisfied customer.

Glad to hear it! It takes a while to get everything dialed in, but the results are well worth the effort!

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Manville Smith, are there any dealers for the JL subs in the greater vancouver area yet? And if not I would assume there would be at least one near the Seattle, WA area that you could recommend? I would make the drive down to listen to one of these subs.

Thanks,

Manville Smith, are there any dealers for the JL subs in the greater vancouver area yet? And if not I would assume there would be at least one near the Seattle, WA area that you could recommend? I would make the drive down to listen to one of these subs.

Thanks,

I sent you a P.M. with our Canadian Distributors contact info. They can give you info on your nearest Canadian dealer.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Does the F112 have some kind of built in limiter on it ? ...Is there fear of damaging the woofer if played to loudly ? or will it just roll off ( what it cant handle ).
Im asking because I have the grill off and I can see the woofer working like crazy and it scares me :)

I love watching the woofer do it's thing.

Does anyone have the dimensions of the F113 shipping package?

Got the shipping dimensions for future reference:

L x W x H
23" x 24" x 27"

Sad news.

I will be going for the fourth Fathom,but no Gotham for now. Still you JL guys should be happy 4 JL's at home aint that bad.

All jealousy aside....

what music do you listen to??

I listen to mostly electronic...and although I hate " drum 'n' bass "

I would love to hear some played with 4 fathoms :) You should seek some out just for giggles.

I'm pretty happy with one...but I know its just time..till I can afford a second.

N

...and how much hearing damage does one have, to need 4 of these subs?

no-one "needs" 4 of these, it's just a case of "want". If you want to really FEEL the bass then multiple woofers can provide the tactile effect in multiple seats and at higher uncompressed volumes.

I listen to classical,acoustic guitar (alot) ...world fusion...drums (in any variation you can think of), electronic muisc. Pretty much all ...I never listen to top 40 garbage played on the radio or the pop crap(I just had to say it).

If we only had talentless manufactured popular trash I would not spend ohn my audio gear so much or invest the time I do on DIY.

Do I need all the subs,NO. WHy,because I have a sub fetish. I have ten,twenty and fourt time s more I will ever need. That is all.

...Do I need all the subs,NO. WHy,because I have a sub fetish. I have ten,twenty and fourt time s more I will ever need. That is all.

Are you sure? Do you have one of those fan subwoofers yet?

Also, if you are watching a movie and there is a big explosion in the sound effects are you still sitting in an intact room after? That's not very realistic...you should be sitting in rubble after the explosion. If not...you need more subs:D

mk

That's not very realistic...you should be sitting in rubble after the explosion. If not...you need more subs:D

mk

lol, that's funny.

Are you sure? Do you have one of those fan subwoofers yet?

Also, if you are watching a movie and there is a big explosion in the sound effects are you still sitting in an intact room after? That's not very realistic...you should be sitting in rubble after the explosion. If not...you need more subs:D

mk

They are called Thigpens and use an infinite baffle, i.e. you need an extra, adjacent room (or attic or basement) to "enclose" the speakers. Hence the term, infinite baffle. The owner of my local shop heard them at Cedia a couple of years ago and said that the Thigpen system reached 5 Hz at 100 db.

Bad news,after seeing the Gotham (posted by someone on AVS)...The urge is getting almost impossible to restrict. :(

I think this week I will tell my JL dealer...GO. :D And infuriate all those who cannot stand utter built quality on AVS. :D:D

I will be told I could reach 180dB with the big black boxes, I prefer a BMW M6 to
a six Ford F350 trucks. :p

Pray for my sanity.

Bad news,after seeing the Gotham (posted by someone on AVS)...The urge is getting almost impossible to restrict. :(

I think this week I will tell my JL dealer...GO. :D And infuriate all those who cannot stand utter built quality on AVS. :D:D

I will be told I could reach 180dB with the big black boxes, I prefer a BMW M6 to
a six Ford F350 trucks. :p

Pray for my sanity.

you only live once

get 2 of them :D

Bad news,after seeing the Gotham (posted by someone on AVS)...The urge is getting almost impossible to restrict. :(

I think this week I will tell my JL dealer...GO. :D And infuriate all those who cannot stand utter built quality on AVS. :D:D

I will be told I could reach 180dB with the big black boxes, I prefer a BMW M6 to
a six Ford F350 trucks. :p

Pray for my sanity.

Its probably too late for that. :)

Have to ask, since you obviously can't run your subs 95dbs hot, what are you trying to achieve?

You can't infuriate poor people like me by buying $11k sub when you already spent 5 times more on subs. But I'm just curious, what do you do with them? Why not spend all the extra money on better speakers, acoustics and everything? Seems like gear addiction to me. At least you could run some tests and write reviews for them. Then there would be a reason.
About the gotham, I'm sure it has awesome build quality and sound quality, but I can't imagine the markup is that modest either. Does it crush every sub-$2k sub in sound quality? If not, then it's the kind of product I despise.

You can't infuriate poor people like me by buying $11k sub when you already spent 5 times more on subs. But I'm just curious, what do you do with them? Why not spend all the extra money on better speakers, acoustics and everything? Seems like gear addiction to me. At least you could run some tests and write reviews for them. Then there would be a reason.
About the gotham, I'm sure it has awesome build quality and sound quality, but I can't imagine the markup is that modest either. Does it crush every sub-$2k sub in sound quality? If not, then it's the kind of product I despise.

In the Ears defense he has already explained he has a subwoofer fetish.
That Gotham has a very sexy curved back end and 2 big woofs up front......aww man now I am getting hot under the collar:D

it's hard to get hot under the collar for 11k though. spitzer's girl for 4k was a bit too much as well :)

all puns intended.

it's hard to get hot under the collar for 11k though. spitzer's girl for 4k was a bit too much as well :)

all puns intended.

Last week, Jay Leno made the comment that given the stock market performance and drop in home prices, at least Spitzer got something for his money. :D

Its probably too late for that. :)

Have to ask, since you obviously can't run your subs 95dbs hot, what are you trying to achieve?


I like to have a solid foundation,my floor should hold...the 4000lbs of subs. An extra 360lbs never killed anyone.

In a few hours I am going to see my JL dealer and say "Guess what ?" and "Go Gotham Go" :D

You can't infuriate poor people like me by buying $11k sub when you already spent 5 times more on subs. But I'm just curious, what do you do with them? Why not spend all the extra money on better speakers, acoustics and everything? Seems like gear addiction to me. At least you could run some tests and write reviews for them. Then there would be a reason.
About the gotham, I'm sure it has awesome build quality and sound quality, but I can't imagine the markup is that modest either. Does it crush every sub-$2k sub in sound quality? If not, then it's the kind of product I despise.


Better speakers,well I have Dynaudio Contour 3.3 , S3.4 and S5.4. Not so low end after all. I will get some Pioneer TAD mains and center later this year.

You cannot crush a well designed $2000 sub in sound quality, it does so in build quality and the maximum output in a very compact volume(internal net volume). Fact you cannot "crush" as you say a well deigned $500 sub in sound quality.

Same for speakers and any type of gear you care to name. Will a Krell FPB600 crush a SimAudio Celeste 4070SE in sound quality...NO.

Will Mark Seaton's SubMersive (~$2000) crush his own design a $499 MFW-15 in sound quality...NOPE. SO dont bring this excuse about crushing. ;)


I am in this hobby for far too long to be in a crushing business,you want crush...go see a monster truck show.

I like to have a solid foundation,my floor should hold...the 4000lbs of subs. An extra 360lbs never killed anyone.

In a few hours I am going to see my JL dealer and say "Guess what ?" and "Go Gotham Go" :D

What does this have to do with my question about "what are you trying to achieve" that is unless it has to do with how much weight your foundation can support?

You can't infuriate poor people like me by buying $11k sub when you already spent 5 times more on subs. But I'm just curious, what do you do with them? Why not spend all the extra money on better speakers, acoustics and everything? Seems like gear addiction to me. At least you could run some tests and write reviews for them. Then there would be a reason.
About the gotham, I'm sure it has awesome build quality and sound quality, but I can't imagine the markup is that modest either. Does it crush every sub-$2k sub in sound quality? If not, then it's the kind of product I despise.

You can despise the Gotham all you want, but it make it no less beautiful or desirable to those who can appreaciate it for what it is. I doubt you would ever be capable of doing that. There may very well be certain giant ugly $2000 black boxes that may sound as good as the Gotham, but they will never enhance the esthetics of a room the way the Gotham will. To many, that alone can justify the price difference. For a machine that is as beautiful and well engineered as the Gotham and is capable of excellent performance, $11k is really small potatoes. Look at what folks pay for things like artwork or jewlery which don't need to perform at all. The Gothom approaches being a work of art and is the jewel of the subwoofer world.

Despise it all you want. It changes nothing.

Last week, Jay Leno made the comment that given the stock market performance and drop in home prices, at least Spitzer got something for his money. :D

i can't argue with that :D

now, back on topic, what's the real price of a gotham? (not the 11k SRP)

What does this have to do with my question about "what are you trying to achieve" that is unless it has to do with how much weight your foundation can support?

That is my kick, doing it for fun.

You can despise the Gotham all you want, but it make it no less beautiful or desirable to those who can appreaciate it for what it is. I doubt you would ever be capable of doing that. There may very well be certain giant ugly $2000 black boxes that may sound as good as the Gotham, but they will never enhance the esthetics of a room the way the Gotham will. To many, that alone can justify the price difference. For a machine that is as beautiful and well engineered as the Gotham and is capable of excellent performance, $11k is really small potatoes. Look at what folks pay for things like artwork or jewlery which don't need to perform at all. The Gothom approaches being a work of art and is the jewel of the subwoofer world.

Despise it all you want. It changes nothing.

Well said.

In a dedicated home theater where speakers are all hidden, I don't see where asthetics matter.

In a dedicated home theater where speakers are all hidden, I don't see where asthetics matter.

Other than the "pride of ownership" factor, you are correct. In this case, paying for esthetics might be seen as a waste.

Despise it all you want. It changes nothing.

You can disagree with me all you want. It changes nothing also. We just have a different taste/priorities. You doubt I would ever be capable of having your taste and priorities? Yeah I doubt it too, but why would I need to.
For as long as you have the right to post how beautiful that thing is, I also have the right to post that I don't see anything special about it.

You can disagree with me all you want. It changes nothing also. We just have a different taste/priorities. You doubt I would ever be capable of having your taste and priorities? Yeah I doubt it too...



See that? We actually do agree. :)

Who said you had to hide the subs? In my room the F113s will be visible, and they will be located optimally in the "best" acoustic spot as chosen by my room designer. I wouldn't put a big ugly box there no matter how good it sounded. That's why I bought the F113s as opposed to the bone-crushing conquest or something like that.

You can disagree with me all you want. It changes nothing also. We just have a different taste/priorities. You doubt I would ever be capable of having your taste and priorities? Yeah I doubt it too, but why would I need to.
For as long as you have the right to post how beautiful that thing is, I also have the right to post that I don't see anything special about it.
OK, you've posted it ad nauseum.

We have received the message.

Now, please find something *else* to post about.

Craig

I have it on good authority that an article focusing on integrating two Gothams into a extremely high-end audio system will be published on UltraAudio.com on April 1st.

thought you guys may be interested

I have had the Gotham in my system for about 7 months now #11 and before that I had lots of black boxes $2K and above as many as 3 at a time. I have even listened to 2 of the Fathoms in the same room and in my opinion I made the right choice, even if I would have bought 3-4 of them I would be happier with my Gotham. I did not pay $11K but I paid allot. I will be purchasing another one to balance out the room esthetically this summer and hope it will not crack my Sheetrock or blow out the seals in my doors. These are really beautiful pieces of art and that is the second reason I love mine.

As far as better performance from something else? I don't think so if you are talking about all around performance and accuracy. That is just MY opinion but mine is what counts in this house right?:D

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/roomfront.JPG

That Gotham is one bad MoFo:p

All this talk about why buy a $11K sub when a 2K sub will do the same thing is nuts. The engineering and craftsmanship that went into that sub is well worth it IMO.

I just wish I lived closer to the EAR and had a forklift:D

And I say it AGAIN...GORGEOUS ! :D

I was at my dealer and told him...GOTHAM...GOTHAM...they looked and said...GOTHAM! ...I responded GOTHAM or nothing. :)

I have had the Gotham in my system for about 7 months now #11 and before that I had lots of black boxes $2K and above as many as 3 at a time. I have even listened to 2 of the Fathoms in the same room and in my opinion I made the right choice, even if I would have bought 3-4 of them I would be happier with my Gotham. I did not pay $11K but I paid allot. I will be purchasing another one to balance out the room esthetically this summer and hope it will not crack my Sheetrock or blow out the seals in my doors. These are really beautiful pieces of art and that is the second reason I love mine.

As far as better performance from something else? I don't think so if you are talking about all around performance and accuracy. That is just MY opinion but mine is what counts in this house right?:D

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/roomfront.JPG

Worth quoting just to see that pic again. Ok ... The writing stuff was pretty good, too ... :D

WHAT a gorgeous subwoofer and room !!!

The Gotham is a big black box. It's just all dressed up :) That equipment rack looks bada$$ also

Thanks guys I love my room also as you might be able to tell. It is a never ending work in progress though and I really need a good 1080p projector now.