I have had the Gotham in my system for about 7 months now #11 and before that I had lots of black boxes $2K and above as many as 3 at a time. I have even listened to 2 of the Fathoms in the same room and in my opinion I made the right choice, even if I would have bought 3-4 of them I would be happier with my Gotham. I did not pay $11K but I paid allot. I will be purchasing another one to balance out the room esthetically this summer and hope it will not crack my Sheetrock or blow out the seals in my doors. These are really beautiful pieces of art and that is the second reason I love mine.

As far as better performance from something else? I don't think so if you are talking about all around performance and accuracy. That is just MY opinion but mine is what counts in this house right?:D

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/roomfront.JPG

One, and soon to be two, Gotham's! :eek: Do you have any plans for the rest of the system?

BTW, I have to ask... how are you integrating the 125 watt powered "subwoofers" in the Def Tech speakers? Are they set to "Large"? :D

Craig

One, and soon to be two, Gotham's! :eek: Do you have any plans for the rest of the system?

BTW, I have to ask... how are you integrating the 125 watt powered "subwoofers" in the Def Tech speakers? Are they set to "Large"? :D

Craig

blasphemy.

two gothams. 125 watt powered speakers/subwoofers. large. should never be in the same paragraph/quote :D

Craig,

I do have plans but I really like the sound of my Def Techs. I have 5 of the Usher 718's on order with stands. I will be auditioning them for a month or so before commiting though. The amps also are a sweet spot for me, I may try the Nuforce offerings with the 718's at the same time in a mono block configuration.

Currently I have the speakers set to small... I don't think the "subs" in the towers are very good and add more mud than anything. Set to small they can be dialed back to stay tight and then hand off to the Gotham. At lower volumes though they sound fine in a 2 channel setup set to large.

Mark,

Might find that the mid bass in the Def Techs are something usable.

I have had the Gotham in my system for about 7 months now #11 and before that I had lots of black boxes $2K and above as many as 3 at a time. I have even listened to 2 of the Fathoms in the same room and in my opinion I made the right choice, even if I would have bought 3-4 of them I would be happier with my Gotham. I did not pay $11K but I paid allot. I will be purchasing another one to balance out the room esthetically this summer and hope it will not crack my Sheetrock or blow out the seals in my doors. These are really beautiful pieces of art and that is the second reason I love mine.

As far as better performance from something else? I don't think so if you are talking about all around performance and accuracy. That is just MY opinion but mine is what counts in this house right?:D

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/roomfront.JPG

:eek::eek: nice!!!!

I have had the Gotham in my system for about 7 months now #11 and before that I had lots of black boxes $2K and above as many as 3 at a time. I have even listened to 2 of the Fathoms in the same room and in my opinion I made the right choice, even if I would have bought 3-4 of them I would be happier with my Gotham. I did not pay $11K but I paid allot. I will be purchasing another one to balance out the room esthetically this summer and hope it will not crack my Sheetrock or blow out the seals in my doors. These are really beautiful pieces of art and that is the second reason I love mine.

As far as better performance from something else? I don't think so if you are talking about all around performance and accuracy. That is just MY opinion but mine is what counts in this house right?:D

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/roomfront.JPG


Gorgeous room! Gives me something to dream about... :)

Mark,

Might find that the mid bass in the Def Techs are something usable.

I do have them turned up enough for some mid bass I just can't use them turned up too much or it gets chesty sounding. I have them pulled way out and have tried others but cannot seem to loose it. I still get good bass even with the speakers set to small and the vocals are much more natural that way also.

Thanks for all the nice comments guys!

Craig,

I do have plans but I really like the sound of my Def Techs. I have 5 of the Usher 718's on order with stands. I will be auditioning them for a month or so before commiting though. The amps also are a sweet spot for me, I may try the Nuforce offerings with the 718's at the same time in a mono block configuration.
Usher has 2 speakers with the label 718; the X-series and the "Dancer" series. The Dancer series has the beryllium tweeter. Is that the one your getting?

Currently I have the speakers set to small... I don't think the "subs" in the towers are very good and add more mud than anything. Set to small they can be dialed back to stay tight and then hand off to the Gotham. At lower volumes though they sound fine in a 2 channel setup set to large.
I was just joking, as I assumed you had them set to "Small". Where do you cross them over?

All in all, you have a very nice system and a beautiful room. Congrats on some great choices.

Craig

Usher has 2 speakers with the label 718; the X-series and the "Dancer" series. The Dancer series has the beryllium tweeter. Is that the one your getting?


I was just joking, as I assumed you had them set to "Small". Where do you cross them over?

All in all, you have a very nice system and a beautiful room. Congrats on some great choices.

Craig

They are crossed over at 80hz and that seems to work well.

Yes the Dancers are what I am getting they are a wonderful sounding monitor but it will be a huge change for me living with a non Bipolar setup. I have always loved the depth of them but we'll see. My room will look more spacious also with small speakers and stands I hope.

Thanks Craig

Yes the Dancers are what I am getting they are a wonderful sounding monitor but it will be a huge change for me living with a non Bipolar setup. I have always loved the depth of them but we'll see. My room will look more spacious also with small speakers and stands I hope.

Thanks Craig

Mark,

If you do not mind, please share your thoughts on the Usher Be-718 aka "The Tiny Dancer" speakers when you implement them. I like and own monitors myself so your feedback would be appreciated.

Charles

Gotham day will arrive fast, they can have one within a week I am told ! GREAT

I will make the space,it will positioned in the best spot in the room. What else for this showpiece if subsonic goodness.

Gotham day will arrive fast, they can have one within a week I am told ! GREAT

I will make the space,it will positioned in the best spot in the room. What else for this showpiece if subsonic goodness.


Arthur, at what point (please be specific) did you stop taking your medication?:confused::p:eek::cool:

I will make the space,it will positioned in the best spot in the room. What else for this showpiece if subsonic goodness.

sounds like your dual F113s are going to get pushed to measily surround or computer duty! what a horrible fate! Better just to sell them to me for cheap... :p

Arthur, at what point (please be specific) did you stop taking your medication?:confused::p:eek::cool:

and he's got no excuse with the socialized medicine in Canada :D

msmith_JL,

Any reason why JL chose foam surrounds on the fathoms over rubber?

My medication ...I never took any,too many color pills to take. Now I am taking pain killers, as I have a right hand that looks like one taken from a bad movie(work accident !) . :o

Still this will not stop me. I am pushing the quest(yeah quest,more like dementia)for absolute saturation.

The Gotham will serve as center channel support(the center speaker will be on tall rubber feet) and flanked by Fathoms. That is the secret plan. Flanked by mains...and by a load of DIY and competent commercial subs.

msmith_JL,

Any reason why JL chose foam surrounds on the fathoms over rubber?

Good question. Rubber is more durable than compressed foam. Not like the compressed "foam" used by JL is a weak link. I have the first Sunfire (used compressed foam sourrounds)...a few years of use and still in like new condition. I treated its sourrounds...slows the drying up process a good deal.

My medication ...I never took any,too many color pills to take. Now I am taking pain killers, as I have a right hand that looks like one taken from a bad movie(work accident !) . :o

Still this will not stop me. I am pushing the quest(yeah quest,more like dementia)for absolute saturation.

The Gotham will serve as center channel support(the center speaker will be on tall rubber feet) and flanked by Fathoms. That is the secret plan. Flanked by mains...and by a load of DIY and competent commercial subs.

You may want to start taking the red ones again:p.

Sorry about the hand ... Please tell me you're NOT going to put your CC on top of the Gotham???

RMK!,

Yes I will !!! Like I have said the rubber feet will be placed on the front "elevated" parts of the sub and I will be able to use the controls(Gotham) no less.

This is my secret plan. I will post plenty of pics when it is said and...done. Now I have to use caution as I can lift nearly nothing for the next two to...three weeks.

I'm thinking of buying a pair of Fathoms. Can anyone PM me a ballpark figure (Street Price) of what I can expect to pay for them. I'm trying to figure if my secret stash will cover them or if I'll need to consult my banker (Wife) :).
Thanks for any help.

msmith_JL,

Any reason why JL chose foam surrounds on the fathoms over rubber?

A few reasons, actually.

Foam is significantly lighter than rubber (affects moving mass)
Foam has better lateral stability when the roll is very large
Foam is less likely to pucker at high excursions.

We do use rubber and synthetic rubbers on other designs, but when the excursions get really long, foam is a better choice in our opinion.

My medication ...I never took any,too many color pills to take. Now I am taking pain killers, as I have a right hand that looks like one taken from a bad movie(work accident !) . :o

Still this will not stop me. I am pushing the quest(yeah quest,more like dementia)for absolute saturation.

The Gotham will serve as center channel support(the center speaker will be on tall rubber feet) and flanked by Fathoms. That is the secret plan. Flanked by mains...and by a load of DIY and competent commercial subs.

Anychance of a picture or two? Or a link to pictures :o Pritty Please id love to see all those subs

This is where the thread gets interesting. :)

Trying to corner me and my subs into...a corner. Corner adds output. ;)

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/324/dscf0680hu1.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0680hu1.jpg)

Click on see images posted by user...there are a few pics. You want to see all my subs and gear. Not there,I will refresh pics and post new ones.

Hey Manville,

Any suggestions on how to care for the foam surround? I live in the desert with extremely low humidity.

Hey Manville,

Any suggestions on how to care for the foam surround? I live in the desert with extremely low humidity.

That is a great question.

One man who goes by the name of Bob Carver (not a JL employee...;) ) mentions in the user manuals of his subs (not JL) that Mink Oil is great to treat compressed foam sourrounds.

I have applied this to many subs I have that use compressed foam sourrounds and it works,the drying/deterioration is greatly reduced (compared a treated unit with one untreated of teh same model.



Lets see what Manville has to say.

Thanks for your response Arthur.

To be honest, I didn't even know this was a problem so you may have prolonged my F113. Thanks. I really love this sub.

This question has already been answered by Manville.




Gentlemen,

Foam surrounds have come a long way in the last ten years and we use them extensively in much tougher automotive environments. The newer foam materials have much longer lifespans than older materials that tended to dry-rot after a few years. While I cannot give you a specific prediction of how long it will last in your specific environment, we feel confident the materials used in our subwoofers will last longer than a decade.

Mink oil is not recommended... only the pure distilled essence of hummingbird wings should be used.... I'm kidding, of course: THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED TO TREAT THE SURROUNDS WITH OIL or any other substance. This could do more harm than good.

As for the service parts support for our products:
We strive to provide service parts for our products for as long as possible, but we commit to providing parts for at least seven years from the date of discontinuation of a product. Being that Fathoms will probably be built for a few more years as they are presently constituted, this will add up to a decade or more. There have been some isolated cases where parts became impossible to source due to suppliers that went under, but we have contingency plans in place now that should prevent these scenarios from occurring.

Hope that answers your questions.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Thanks Mojomike.

The best thing to do for our foam surrounds is to leave them alone. They are made from a very robust polyester compound and are far more durable than old foam compounds that used to dry-rot.

No minks need to be harmed to assure their longevity. I can't see how an organic oil like Mink Oil would help a synthetic polymer, either.

That is a great question.

One man who goes by the name of Bob Carver (not a JL employee...;) ) mentions in the user manuals of his subs (not JL) that Mink Oil is great to treat compressed foam sourrounds.

I have applied this to many subs I have that use compressed foam sourrounds and it works,the drying/deterioration is greatly reduced (compared a treated unit with one untreated of teh same model.



Lets see what Manville has to say.

Trying to corner me and my subs into...a corner. Corner adds output. ;)

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/324/dscf0680hu1.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0680hu1.jpg)

Click on see images posted by user...there are a few pics. You want to see all my subs and gear. Not there,I will refresh pics and post new ones.

WOW you really are crazy :eek:

Ultracubes :D nothing ultra when compaired with that red 18 LLT i bet

Dont know why but my fav is the opposing 15s box, love it and it has given me ideas for my next build, a little off topic but how does it (twin 15s) compair with the 18 LLT and the 113, rate them forom 1 to 3 please

Thanks a lot for posting those pictures

Great pictures Ear, you truly are a subwoofer madman!

Great pictures Ear, you truly are a subwoofer madman!

Wait a few days...I will have some great drivers that will end up in a few DIY subs posted. :eek::D Mad I tell you...mad.

Wait a few days...I will have some great drivers that will end up in a few DIY subs posted. :eek::D Mad I tell you...mad.

What is the easiest way to do that great window bracing you have on the red sub? Is there a thread? I looked but did not come accross one.

Subs are the funnest part of this hobby, you should be the happiest person here:D

Thanks in advance!

What is the easiest way to do that great window bracing you have on the red sub? Is there a thread? I looked but did not come accross one.

Subs are the funnest part of this hobby, you should be the happiest person here:D

Thanks in advance!

I do not want to bring other subs or DIY,here being the JL Audio Fathom thread. Take a look in the DIY speaker section of this forum. My Two EBS subs comming is there.

I do not want to bring other subs or DIY,here being the JL Audio Fathom thread. Take a look in the DIY speaker section of this forum. My Two EBS subs comming is there.

Good point, I will keep an eye out.

hi Manville, I asked this in another thread but I guess this is the place to get an answer. I'm sure its been brought up before but I probably missed it. In any case I was wondering why the engineers of the fathom and the gotham decided to go with a sealed design over a smaller ported design. I realize the most obvious reason was to reduce the size, WAF etc... I'm wondering if it was also a concious decision for sound quality as well, and if so there seems to be people on the side of the fence that say sealed vs ported sound just as good, and those that think sealed sounds better than ported design. I realize you might have to get back to me on this one but I'm curious as to what the opinions are of your engineers on this (as I know you make ported and sealed boxes for car audio).

edit: I should clarify I'm not trying to start a flame war/argument here, just curious for myself so perhaps a pm reply might be best

swerveddy,

Generally speaking <<< NOTE the word "Generally" >>> ....

A sealed design is better suited for achieving good LF extension in a small package.
A sealed design is more predictable and linear
A sealed design avoids any issues with port turbulence, etc.

We are certainly not against ported designs, which can make a whole lot of sense when small size is not such a big consideration. Each box type has pros and cons and each can be made to work very well (or very badly) depending on the skill of the system designer.

THanks ML..


Some great news for us canucks in the Vancouver area... HI FI Centre downtown vancouver is getting a fathom demo in early next week supposedly... after a long wait... finally a chance to hear this devil. I really look forward to giving it a workout. Ironic that soon after the fathom was released.... I brought it up with a salesman at this shop, mentioned it was no budget sub...a real performer and asked if they could order one in or would eventually deal them... they said no obviously.No one had heard of the company or the sub apparently...in fact they were quick to point me in the direction of REL and dismissed it right away... LOL looks like they changed thier mind. :rolleyes:

- Ed

hi Manville, I asked this in another thread but I guess this is the place to get an answer. I'm sure its been brought up before but I probably missed it. In any case I was wondering why the engineers of the fathom and the gotham decided to go with a sealed design over a smaller ported design. I realize the most obvious reason was to reduce the size, WAF etc... I'm wondering if it was also a concious decision for sound quality as well, and if so there seems to be people on the side of the fence that say sealed vs ported sound just as good, and those that think sealed sounds better than ported design. I realize you might have to get back to me on this one but I'm curious as to what the opinions are of your engineers on this (as I know you make ported and sealed boxes for car audio).

edit: I should clarify I'm not trying to start a flame war/argument here, just curious for myself so perhaps a pm reply might be best

I think JL went with a small sealed design with their home subwoofers because they know that they won't be able to compete with ID companies' prices if they went with large ported subwoofers. But since they have already designed the fantastic W7 woofers, they can compete in ultimate small size and sound quality, where no other company can compete in, therefore making them really successful.

Well I pulled the trigger on a F112 last night, doesn't look like there is a thread for that sub... Small room 1800^3 or so... should be more then plenty... Couldn't justify the added $$ for the F113 in this puny room...

I have been playing around back and forth with my PB12-Plus and my sons SB12+ to see what I liked better, and the sealed box was really starting to grow on me, all the nuances and detail in music and movies, that I'm sure the F112 will even do far better with my Paradigm Sig setup...

Can't wait...

I know it won't have the output as low as the PB12-Plus tuned low, but I'm sure, that the gained accuracy will truly be worth it for me... And with far more power and build design then the SB12+, this should be cool...

I think JL went with a small sealed design with their home subwoofers because they know that they won't be able to compete with ID companies' prices if they went with large ported subwoofers. But since they have already designed the fantastic W7 woofers, they can compete in ultimate small size and sound quality, where no other company can compete in, therefore making them really successful.

That is interesting chengbin, but I'm gonna have to disagree there. I'm positive if JL wanted to make a killer ported sub they could do it. Sure the ID companies may offer a better "value" but that is decided by the person making the purchase in the end - It would be interesting to see if they ever realease a budget line of home subs with perhaps less robust woofers and amps. then the ID market would really get interesting! :p

I think JL has developed a nice little niche for themselves. They put out what is arguably the best subs in their particular class: the very high performance compact sealed sub. What's great about concentrating on this class is that there are not a whole lot of strong competitors. On the other hand, who isn't doing budget lines with less robust woofers and amps. There are already plenty of choices there.

I think JL has developed a nice little niche for themselves. They put out what is arguably the best subs in their particular class: the very high performance compact sealed sub. What's great about concentrating on this class is that there are not a whole lot of strong competitors. On the other hand, who isn't doing budget lines with less robust woofers and amps. There are already plenty of choices there.

Good points mojomike. Sure I could've spent less than what the F113s cost but there's no cheaper sub that has the combo of output, sound quality, killer build quality and looks/size. I like the way the amp is integrated into the "body" of the sub. I like the fact that JL makes their own drivers and amps and does their own design and construction. You end up paying a premium for all this, but there is a market for it for sure.

Well I pulled the trigger on a F112 last night, doesn't look like there is a thread for that sub... Small room 1800^3 or so... should be more then plenty... Couldn't justify the added $$ for the F113 in this puny room...

I have been playing around back and forth with my PB12-Plus and my sons SB12+ to see what I liked better, and the sealed box was really starting to grow on me, all the nuances and detail in music and movies, that I'm sure the F112 will even do far better with my Paradigm Sig setup...

Can't wait...

I know it won't have the output as low as the PB12-Plus tuned low, but I'm sure, that the gained accuracy will truly be worth it for me... And with far more power and build design then the SB12+, this should be cool...

Warp,

We have similar space constraints and I'll tell ya, the JL is one of the best pieces of audio equipment created by man. When I write that, I don't mean it's the best sub available, but it's a small package that fits into our small room lifestyles with power, class, eye candy and clean output. Honestly I went through 3 different subs large in size that were all very good, but my sub searching days are over for a long time. This is of course, unless I can afford the Gotham!! :)

Congratulations on your new toy.... :)

Warp,

We have similar space constraints and I'll tell ya, the JL is one of the best pieces of audio equipment created by man. When I write that, I don't mean it's the best sub available, but it's a small package that fits into our small room lifestyles with power, class, eye candy and clean output. Honestly I went through 3 different subs large in size that were all very good, but my sub searching days are over for a long time. This is of course, unless I can afford the Gotham!! :)

Congratulations on your new toy.... :)

Thanks Mozvz, this is for my bedroom, and the only room that I actually have size issues, my great room is 8200^3 wide open to other areas and I have Dual Plus/2's in there, but a build is in process with Dual Large ported cabinets each with 15" TC-2000 drivers.

It will be nice to have the ability to see how the performance of the F112 sways my idea of sealed vs ported.

Warp,

I have had my JL F112 for about 3 months now and paired with Revel F32s....

All I can honestly say is that in my 15.5'x15' room (approx. 2250 cubic) they are the best sounding and most visceral subwoofage (sp?) I have ever heard. The Revels in particular seem to blend well through music with the upper-end of the JL picking up easily where the lower-end rolls off on the mains. The full bass spectrum is easily represented here, both incredibly loud and with blistering speed and clarity.

Bar none the best compact subwoofer available for music and HT content (with an amazing emphases on music). I know that most people here claim that the F113 is the proud king for HT material especially among the JL line...but in such a small space the output can produce almost identical results plus you get superior "flatter" response at the upper end starting at around 100 hz.

I really can't imagine a better purchase if you are willing to spend the extra cash. For one, easy placement and finish options unlike the coffee table/couch-sized subs from eD and Epik with spray-on finish:eek:. Recently My best friend was able to install an SVS pb13 and has gotten great music and low-end impact out of his sub which is surprising...thought it is absolutely massive in size and limiting in room placement. But other than a few of these exceptions, the only companies that can offer similar performance at this size are all going to be just as expensive and probably not quite there in terms of low-end. REl and Velodyne are the other two that I would trust to handle as well but REL is poorly represented here on the forums and Velodyne is just as expensive if not more. It's your decision but I am absolutely in love with mine and could only be happier with adding a second one:p

Good commentary Digi. I share those sentiments as well. Interestingly one of the guys who was at our two sub mini-shootouts last year opted to buy a pair of JL112s for the reasons you cited. :cool:

Thanks Jake...Really have appreciated putting this whole home theater thing together but the JLs were found to be far more musical than I originally anticipated and have shifted my interest away from just max SPL and into developing a dedicated listening environment. Next up, I'm eager to possibly get into some acoustic treatments and more HT equip. I agree though that the combination of two of these subs would yield incredible dynamics and also the headroom to really dig deep when need be. Haven't really had the chance to test that theory yet as I still need to purchase a dedicated dvd player and the format war and lack of budget (thank you genesis audio;)) hasn't helped much.

Thanks guys... I can't say that I'm displeased with my deep digging PB12-Plus, in this small room, but I have been starting to lean more in the direction to music with the Sigs for me, they are just cleaner and more dynamic then my Studio setup. Playing around with the Sealed box next to the ported is starting to clarify things for me, and I wanted to take this to the next step in clarity... It has gotten to be quite the addictive hobby for me, and I love it... Thank god I have the ability to afford such pleasures. My woman just rolls her eyes at me, I won't waste my time telling her I bought the F112 yet.

My D-Sonic 2000-5 amp shows up tomorrow, and when the F112 comes, I will definitely have a sub that will keep up with the rest of the system.. :)

My JL's match to perfection with my Dynaudio speakers,cannot ask for a better integrated set of subs.

To date a good sealed system beats a good vented,in my systems. Probably due in part to room interaction.

could I get some help from a fellow canadian who's purchased the f112 or f113.. If you would be able to pm me with the street price or what I can expect to pay (lowest most dealer will probably go)

Thank you :)

what is this "fathom" you all speaketh of? :p

Yes and what is wrong with the FatOhm ?

FatOhm ?

Hehehehee, funny typing mistake..?

i'm waiting for the Gotham 413 with 4 drivers

i'm waiting for the Gotham 413 with 4 drivers

I can't imagine the price for a Gotham 413

could I get some help from a fellow canadian who's purchased the f112 or f113.. If you would be able to pm me with the street price or what I can expect to pay (lowest most dealer will probably go)

Thank you :)

I tried to PM you back but I got a message saying you couldn't receive it.

I can't imagine the price for a Gotham 413

how about the weight and dedicated electrical circuit you would need :eek:

how about the weight and dedicated electrical circuit you would need :eek:

Come on, thats just structural integrity and running wire, and maybe a change of service... bringing 3 phase into your house isn't that big a deal is it...?

... Interestingly one of the guys who was at our two sub mini-shootouts last year opted to buy a pair of JL112s for the reasons you cited.

That guy would be me. Have 1 f112 now and love it (capably fills my 2700 cu. ft. room). Bought it at Xmas (used, from a-gon) and will be on the lookout for a 2nd later this year. I really don't "need" the 2nd one (sure no one can relate to that :D) but want it mainly for the more balanced room response than the extra dbs.

I'm a person who has always been willing to pay extra for quality and the JLs ooze quality. The small size was also a huge factor in my decision (vs. SVS PB13), especially once I decided on duals.

Sorry for going a bit OT (I know this is the f113 thread) ... but the f112 deserves a little love too! :)

I'm a person who has always been willing to pay extra for quality and the JLs ooze quality. The small size was also a huge factor in my decision (vs. SVS PB13), especially once I decided on duals.

Sorry for going a bit OT (I know this is the f113 thread) ... but the f112 deserves a little love too! :)



I agree with you huff... I have 4 SVS subs in my house now, 2 - +/2's in my great room main theater, 1 - PB12+ in my bedroom and the SB12+ is my sons 2 channel unit...

The Big huge Plus in my bedroom is great, but just too big, and I wanted something really small that had better output and better SQ then the little SVS, so I felt that the F112 was the only product out there with the quality that would fit my needs.. I am not the kind of guy that will make a backwards move, and strive forth for the best of the best.
I can't wait until I get it to see what all the fuss was about...

The F112 doesn't have its own home on AVS, so we are forced to Infiltrate the F113 thread.. !!!!

The F112 doesn't have its own home on AVS, so we are forced to Infiltrate the F113 thread.. !!!!
Actually, there was one for a while, but it's been dormant lately. Maybe now that there are enough of us, we can revive it:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=767848

Craig

Manville,

Is the f110 out yet?

Thank you

Manville,

Is the f110 out yet?

Thank you
I'm not Manville, but no it isn't out yet.

What kind of sound/music-material would you guys recommend to break in a Fathom?

What kind of sound/music-material would you guys recommend to break in a Fathom?

I'm not sure break in is really necessary, just start running it through material.

Mine sounded amazing right out of the box.... I tried it both with ARO and without, and in my room, I lost alot of output with the ARO engaged, so I have defeated it for now. I have no way to measure it right now, but I don't need to get into that right now, as it sounds spectacular, and I'm not sure I would really need to change a dam thing... perfect.

It just puts out deep, clean, and hard.

I'm not sure break in is really necessary, just start running it through material.

Mine sounded amazing right out of the box.... I tried it both with ARO and without, and in my room, I lost alot of output with the ARO engaged, so I have defeated it for now. I have no way to measure it right now, but I don't need to get into that right now, as it sounds spectacular, and I'm not sure I would really need to change a dam thing... perfect.

It just puts out deep, clean, and hard.
Glad to hear it's sounding good. Did you re-calibrate after you ran ARO. The ARO is a cut-only EQ. So, if you ran it and it reduced a peak, the overall SPL will be low relative to a calibration. You should re-cal with an SPL meter after running ARO.

Craig

Thanks craig.... I really intend on dragging my SMS-1 from my other system into the room to see the response path in bypass mode without EQ'ing and the ARO to get a grasp on things, but I just haven't had that opportunity yet... I'm just having such a great time with how it sounds right now...


BTW, love your Lombardi quote... I met him a few times as a young boy, my father was pretty close friends with Ray Nitschke, and we used to hang out with him, and Bart Starr on numurous occasions.
That just makes for some long lasting memories....

Look what I found

Two stereo Gothams. :eek: I've heard of audiophile "all out assault" type systems but that one takes it to a new level. Rockport Technologies Altair floorstanders play down to 20hz so I wonder why you would want any sub with those excellent speakers. The writer mentions he wanted to preserve soundstage but I think the real purpose is to show how seamlessly the Gotham, like all the Fathoms for that matter, blend with some of the finest speakers made.

All in all a good writeup though I'm still wondering if the same effect could have been had with dual 113s or dual 112s.

no pics of that setup?

Look what I found....
http://www.ultraaudio.com/twbas.shtml


:eek::eek: ohhhhhhhh ohhhhhhhh

Rockport speakers and JL Audio subs...ohhhh

I believe everything that the article stated. My room is not "perfect" but very good and the equipment he uses to set this up is not my thing but I have enjoyed the same response from my meager system with the Gotham everyday!

I can't wait to get a second one someday! Then I will upgrade some other stuff. These make what you have that much better though IMHO.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/roomfront.JPG

What other gear are you currently using, Mark?

I believe everything that the article stated. My room is not "perfect" but very good and the equipment he uses to set this up is not my thing but I have enjoyed the same response from my meager system with the Gotham everyday!

I can't wait to get a second one someday! Then I will upgrade some other stuff. These make what you have that much better though IMHO.

[IM]http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/roomfront.JPG[/IMG]

congrats Jorgen...that is one fine room you have. Very Classy and simple! well done! :)

What other gear are you currently using, Mark?

I have Def Tech 2002's (originals) across the front and BP8's in the rear. They are driven by a Sunfire Cinema Grand, run through a Denon 3805. Sources are a Denon DVD2900 (DVD audio), DVD2903 (DVD for the 65" Mitsu in wall), and a Sony 9000 (DVD to my In focus projector). I run two separate Monster surge/conditioner? units 1 for video and 1 for audio all connected to 6 dedicated 20 amp circuits.

your sub now outclasses your system and you have no other choice but to catch it up.... time to start upgrading..... :)

your sub now outclasses your system and you have no other choice but to catch it up.... time to start upgrading..... :)

All true BUT the addition of the Gotham improved the overall sound tremendously and if you could hear it and think what you could actually hear in the difference if you spent $70K more on the system I bet you gain per dollar would be tough to swallow.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_34_2.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZZzer000)





http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb095&pp=ZZzer000 (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb095_ZZzer000&utm_id=7923)

oh, i think you could upgrade those def tech speakers with something newer that is still close to the price point of your existing speakers and probably consider it an upgrade. A good pair of bookshelf's, like the Usher's mentioned earlier in this thread, would be a great choice. You know that you have state-of-the-art bass, you can approach SOTA midrange and treble without spending anywhere near 70K. I wasn't trying to be rude.

oh, i think you could upgrade those def tech speakers with something newer that is still close to the price point of your existing speakers and probably consider it an upgrade. A good pair of bookshelf's, like the Usher's mentioned earlier in this thread, would be a great choice. You know that you have state-of-the-art bass, you can approach SOTA midrange and treble without spending anywhere near 70K. I wasn't trying to be rude.

I did not take it as being rude, I knew what you were saying. I do have a bead on the new BE 718's and and their custom stands, should be getting them this summer sometime for all 5 channels. I agree this will be a big improvement I'm just worried I will loose the enveloping sound I am used to with my Def Techs.

You need some Rockport Technologies speakers to replace the def Tech. ;)

The Sunfire amp is not a weak link,very solid amp, the Denon gear is ok,I have some denon gear too and it performs well.

Simply the Gotham is such an exquisite piece if audio gear,it almost forces upgrades. :)

I have a pair of Rockport Tech Mira's and two f112's, so I would definitely recommend the setup TheEAR mentioned above.

Nice NHTFred. Never heard any Rockport speakers but they have been on my must-audition list for a while.

I'll be moving the fathoms into "the room" in the next week or so, I'll post some pictures then.

Rockport Technologies use drivers from two companies(Dyne and Audiotechnology) I hold in the highest regard.From the cabinet to the crossover they spare no expense to make the most neutral speakers.

Merak II is discontinued..DOH, well they have a new "lesser" stand mounted and the Wilson Duette. I will have to decide after a good listening comparo session.

I have Def Tech 2002's (originals) across the front and BP8's in the rear. They are driven by a Sunfire Cinema Grand, run through a Denon 3805. Sources are a Denon DVD2900 (DVD audio), DVD2903 (DVD for the 65" Mitsu in wall), and a Sony 9000 (DVD to my In focus projector). I run two separate Monster surge/conditioner? units 1 for video and 1 for audio all connected to 6 dedicated 20 amp circuits.

Mark,

Very nice setup. Very classy looking setup. Is your front wall black? I need to change mine from the gray I have now. I like what you have done with your room.

outlikealight,

Yes, the front wall is a flat "space black" and so is the ceiling. The other walls are a 4 step copper/gold/opaque metal flake if you can believe that! At night they look like they are on fire with the halogen's midway, it is very relaxing when listening to music.

I have actually been lucky enough to listen to the Gotham/Altair setup at the reviews home, nothing short of amazing.

Wow...lucky you! It's the Altairs I'm interested in.

Should I leave the LF knob on the F112 to 80Hz or all the way up? Is the defeat button supposed to be "off" when using the Audyssey EQ on receivers?

Most of the time I would advise you to use the crossover inside the receiver. Turn the setting on the sub to "off". You will still need to adjust the phase and possibly the elf trim to fine tune the sub to your main speakers.

Well after much time and money I'm almost ready to actually listen to my F113s that I've had for over a year! Here are some pics. I haven't brought the 2nd pair into the room yet.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk97/The_Bogg/basement272.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk97/The_Bogg/basement273.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk97/The_Bogg/basement274.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk97/The_Bogg/basement275.jpg

Wow! What kind of speakers are those?

All ATC active. Mains are Anniversary 100, centre channel is C6 (another older one is in the rear as 6th channel), rears are 50s.

Should I leave the LF knob on the F112 to 80Hz or all the way up? Is the defeat button supposed to be "off" when using the Audyssey EQ on receivers?
There is no "LF" knob. There is an "LP Filter" with 3 settings: "Off", "12 dB" and "24 dB". If you use the Bass Management in your receiver, this should be set to "Off". If you set it to "Off", the "LP freq. (Hz.)" is inactivated and it doesn't matter where you set it.

I asked Chris K. (Audyssey's Chief Technical Officer), about using ARO in conjunction with Audyssey. His recommendation was that, if you have a single large peak that covers multiple seats, use ARO to reduce it before you run Audyssey. This will free up some processing power in Audyssey to tackle other problem frequencies. If you have multiple narrow peaks and/or peaks that only cover one seat, leave it off and let Audyssey do the EQ. Audyssey will do a better job in this circumstance and cascading the filters (ARO + Audyssey) may do more harm than good. If you don't know, or can't measure the pre-Audyssey bass response, leave it off. (IOW, leave the sub in the "defeat" mode.)

Craig

The Bogg,

Very nice room! Is the curved wooden structure behind the speakers a "diffusion panel"? Are there other acoustic treatments in the room?

Those ATC speakers look amazing! :eek:

Where do you plan to place the other 2 F113's? Are you running them as Master/Slave(s) or are they each sent an independent signal? How are you implementing ARO? Also, how are you implementing Bass Management?

Most importantly, how does it all sound? :)

Craig

PS. Sorry for all the questions, but that just looks like an amazing system and I wanted to know how you're optimizing it. Thanks.

The Bogg,

OUTSTANDING ! The ATC's are world class speakers,and that center...:eek:

The four f113's will displace just enough ait to keep any audiophile happy even when things get very loud. :)

Simple and classy.

Very nice looking setup, Asher! When will it be ready for an audition. :):cool:

Thanks for the interest guys. Craig John that's a diffusion panel in the front. The room was designed by Chris Huston of Rives Audio. It is one of their Level 3 designs. There are "sawtooth" diffusors on the side, "extensive" bass trapping etc... I'll be starting the construction thread soon. The look of the room is nice and simple but behind the scenes there's a lot of stuff going on. For example, one of the soffits is for the hvac ducts and the other one is a huge bass trap. Here's a look from the front:

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk97/The_Bogg/basement266.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk97/The_Bogg/basement267.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk97/The_Bogg/basement218.jpg

I haven't listened to it yet...hopefully tonight after work. Craig John, I'm considering stacking but have a few different ways to try first.

Thanks for posting pics of this terrific looking room. Having the acoustic treatments integrated into the design makes for a really finished and elegant look. I know this project ran long and over budget but now it's done and the fun part begins. Looking forward to your impressions re the A/V.
Enjoy!:cool:

Got to listen to the f113 finally for several hours... What a great sub. This was in a large less then ideal room at the dealer here in vancouver... Not only that but the calibration was non existant, and I think the 802D mains were running fullrange. There was apparently no mic as the JL person who delivered apparently had no box or mic dropped off - so no ARO. I ran a sweep with one of the cd's I had on me and there were several peaks and nulls. :(

Overall I was impressed though I really think that one fathom alone in a room that size was not enough. Above 30hz the fathom was indeed impressive. For track 7 off of Telarcs Organ blaster cd... the last minute was reproduced quite well, again I think it would have been a terrific demo if it was properly calibrated and setup in a slightly smaller room. With all these things hindering it I was still quite impressed.

Well after much time and money I'm almost ready to actually listen to my F113s that I've had for over a year! Here are some pics. I haven't brought the 2nd pair into the room yet.

That is some SERIOUS business, right there!!! :eek::eek::eek:

WOWZA! and, congratulations!

Well after much time and money I'm almost ready to actually listen to my F113s that I've had for over a year! Here are some pics. I haven't brought the 2nd pair into the room yet.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk97/The_Bogg/basement272.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk97/The_Bogg/basement275.jpg


hey this is probably a stupid question but... does the screen block some of the sound from the center? is it perforated(sp)? I just got a projector /screen myself an hung it on the wall but in the future I'd consider hanging it from the ceiling a bit farther out from the wall.

hey this is probably a stupid question but... does the screen block some of the sound from the center? is it perforated(sp)? I just got a projector /screen myself an hung it on the wall but in the future I'd consider hanging it from the ceiling a bit farther out from the wall.

it's an acoustically transparent perforated projection screen like they use at real movie theaters

it's an acoustically transparent perforated projection screen like they use at real movie theaters

Actually, I think it's a Screen Research screen. (It's hard to tell, but I think that's SR's logo in the lower left corner of the screen.) If that's the case, it's a woven screen, not a perforated screen. Woven screens have better acoustical transparency than perf'd screens.

http://www.screenresearch.com/

swerveddy, if your screen is not acoustically transparent, don't put your CC behind it. :)

Craig

That is some SERIOUS business, right there!!! :eek::eek::eek:

WOWZA! and, congratulations!

Thanks Manville:)

Actually, I think it's a Screen Research screen.
Craig

That's exactly what it is. It has the optional black backing too.

Very nice!

That's exactly what it is. It has the optional black backing too.
:)

Soooooo..... have you sat down and *listened* to it yet? (Personally, I'd be callin' in sick to work! :D I'd be tellin' the boss I had an "earache"! :D )

Craig

Just mounted the projector today and with the help of 3 other guys we hoisted the rear centre channel (very similar to the front one) up on the rear rack. It's killing me but it'll be a day or 2 before I can fire it up. Mom-in-law and I almost broke our backs moving the Equitech 7.5Q onto the rack. Thankfully the heavy stuff has pretty well been moved. Just that second pair of F113s when I figure out where to put them. It's a fair sized room and it's getting a little crowded so I might consider stacking them in the front.

The Bogg,

Placed up front the result should be great,so far I have nothing but good results with subs sitting in front(and not much choice ;) ).

The Bogg, that is quite the setup there! I hate to say it but I think your system seriously outclasses those puny fathoms! You need four gothams MINIMUM!

Lol

The Bogg,

Placed up front the result should be great,so far I have nothing but good results with subs sitting in front(and not much choice ;) ).

Good to hear. :)

There is no "LF" knob. There is an "LP Filter" with 3 settings: "Off", "12 dB" and "24 dB". If you use the Bass Management in your receiver, this should be set to "Off". If you set it to "Off", the "LP freq. (Hz.)" is inactivated and it doesn't matter where you set it.

I asked Chris K. (Audyssey's Chief Technical Officer), about using ARO in conjunction with Audyssey. His recommendation was that, if you have a single large peak that covers multiple seats, use ARO to reduce it before you run Audyssey. This will free up some processing power in Audyssey to tackle other problem frequencies. If you have multiple narrow peaks and/or peaks that only cover one seat, leave it off and let Audyssey do the EQ. Audyssey will do a better job in this circumstance and cascading the filters (ARO + Audyssey) may do more harm than good. If you don't know, or can't measure the pre-Audyssey bass response, leave it off. (IOW, leave the sub in the "defeat" mode.)

Craig

Thanks. That was very helpful.

My local JL Audio Dealer made a little delivery to my house last night. A stack of Fathom F113's. A big thanks to Blayne for being so great to work with. Here's a few photo's. Let's get ready to rumble!!

http://i25.tinypic.com/2ekne39.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/el2loz.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/2i9gmma.jpg

Nice!

Do those Fathoms have felt-bottomed feet so that you can stack directly on the piano finish? Or did you put something else between them?

My local JL Audio Dealer made a little delivery to my house last night. A stack of Fathom F113's. A big thanks to Blayne for being so great to work with. Here's a few photo's. Let's get ready to rumble!!


http://i30.tinypic.com/2i9gmma.jpg

awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!


:cool:

http://i31.tinypic.com/el2loz.jpg



Nice setup. Where did you get the AV shelf. If I get one of those, I could bring my PJ screen down a bit.

Nice!

Do those Fathoms have felt-bottomed feet so that you can stack directly on the piano finish? Or did you put something else between them?

They have good size rubber nubs on the bottom. Perfect for stacking. I could not believe how heavy they were for their size. I may put something else between them but I'm not sure yet. Maybe Manville can chime in on this.

Nice setup. Where did you get the AV shelf. If I get one of those, I could bring my PJ screen down a bit.

Thanks Alex,

It is actually three seperate racks. You can view them here

http://www.audioc.com/accessories1/sanus/sanracks.htm

I have the double wide one for the middle and a single, three shelf one on each side. They are very solid and each shelf is rated to 80 or 90 pounds. Very nice looking/simple. I have recieved many compliments on how nice they look. Very, very easy to assemble.The cool thing about these is that they are expandable. You can get the number of shelves you want now but can add or subtract later very simply. So you don't have to buy a new rack. Very cool and very handy. Also not very expensive. I bought them from somewhere with free shipping. The website I linked is just a quick example but I'm pretty sure they can be found cheaper if you look. Although I noticed they are having a 20% off sale right now.

I have changed my setup several times and just reconfigured the shelves each time.

Super. Thanks for the link outlikealight.

They have good size rubber nubs on the bottom. Perfect for stacking. I could not believe how heavy they were for their size. I may put something else between them but I'm not sure yet. Maybe Manville can chime in on this.

Consider the svelte shelves by Symposium Acoustics. I have no experience with them but read about them on 6moons in the PMC IB2 review. I might try them if I decide to stack like you did.

Stacked f112/f113's look great and you have the extra output to boot. For anyone with four Fathom subs ,two little towers will do a great job in even large rooms.

Four f113's equal two Gotham subs in output,that is very serious.

The Bogg and outlikealight,

Major thanks for posting photos and adding credibility to this thread.

I was starting to think that nobody actually owned multiple F113s, since you never would see creditable photos posted.

Thanks again.

i gotta get out of this thread ... :) too much temptation!

great pics btw! i cant wait for Bogg's quad F113's!

Hey Bogg ... guess you're hosting the next one for sure!! Very nice, let me know when I can drop to salivate ... errr ... I mean listen! I will try to not get too much saliva on the ATC's.

The Bogg and outlikealight,

Major thanks for posting photos and adding credibility to this thread.

I was starting to think that nobody actually owned multiple F113s, since you never would see creditable photos posted.

Thanks again.




My contribution to the thread. I have since moved them out and away from the walls, This was the first day I had them setup!


http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3978/theaterwithfathomsaq8.jpg





http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4061/jlaudiofathom113leftsidmn3.jpg

Great room, what kind of accustic panels are you using? They (to) look great!

My contribution to the thread. I have since moved them out and away from the walls, This was the first day I had them setup!


http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2218/1dmk1273si4.jpg




http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4061/jlaudiofathom113leftsidmn3.jpg

Great room, what kind of accustic panels are you using? They (to) look great!

I think he is using Auralex acoustic panels but I could be wrong.

--Regards,

I think he is using Auralex acoustic panels but I could be wrong.

--Regards,


Pretty close, they are Sonex panels. The room sounds a lot more linear and smoother with the first and second reflective points taken care of. Sounds are located with pinpoint accuracy.

Rear of room
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2777/lookingatsophiasoi5.jpg

This thread voted most likely to spark a proletarian uprising! :D

Damn that's some nice stuff, Mssrs. Bogg et Sharp.

Between the baby and the F$%@#^in job I haven't had a chance to listen yet. At least the touchups to the wood trim are done. I can now start putting the speakers in the best spots. It's a fair sized room at 17.5W x 24D x only 7'10"H but it's getting crowded in there. I was going to use my B&W ASW4000 sub to fill in the bass from my rear speakers but I may rethink that. I shudder to think how the dual stacked F113s are going to look in the room but my wife will get over it...eventually.
Me: Hey, I didn't start the room project so it could be seen in a magazine, it's just for pure performance.
Wife: I didn't go through 5 months construction, inches of drywall dust, and endless spending for Stonehenge...SLAP!

Hey Bogg ... guess you're hosting the next one for sure!! Very nice, let me know when I can drop to salivate ... errr ... I mean listen! I will try to not get too much saliva on the ATC's.

Soon as it's functional I'll have you guys over. :)

Pretty close, they are Sonex panels. The room sounds a lot more linear and smoother with the first and second reflective points taken care of. Sounds are located with pinpoint accuracy.

Rear of room
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2777/lookingatsophiasoi5.jpg

That's a sharp room Sharp1080! :)

Between the baby and the F$%@#^in job I haven't had a chance to listen yet. At least the touchups to the wood trim are done. I can now start putting the speakers in the best spots. It's a fair sized room at 17.5W x 24D x only 7'10"H but it's getting crowded in there. I was going to use my B&W ASW4000 sub to fill in the bass from my rear speakers but I may rethink that. I shudder to think how the dual stacked F113s are going to look in the room but my wife will get over it...eventually.
Me: Hey, I didn't start the room project so it could be seen in a magazine, it's just for pure performance.
Wife: I didn't go through 5 months construction, inches of drywall dust, and endless spending for Stonehenge...SLAP!

Asher, the solution is simple. Just add several more fathoms until each of the two form "pillars" to the ceiling, then just say you were going for a "greek" look to the room. :D

lol

Heja,Hopstretch,and Bogg,

Thank you for the compliment. We are all very fortunate to share the same hobby. ;)

I shudder to think how the dual stacked F113s are going to look in the room but my wife will get over it...eventually.
Me: Hey, I didn't start the room project so it could be seen in a magazine, it's just for pure performance.
Wife: I didn't go through 5 months construction, inches of drywall dust, and endless spending for Stonehenge...SLAP!

To gain the extra db's the subs just have to be co-located. Unless I am mistaken you get the same effect by having the subs side by side instead of stacking. It would basically be like lying a Gotham on it's side instead of standing upright.

Might avoid that SLAP this way:D

That was my original idea mjaudio, but there doesn't appear to be as much space as I had thought. I'm going to try it that way first though.

That was my original idea mjaudio, but there doesn't appear to be as much space as I had thought. I'm going to try it that way first though.
If I may be so presumptuous as to make a suggestion, I don't think co-locating will be necessary. Co-locating, (stacking them or side-by-side placement), will yield more output. With 4 F113's, output won't be a problem. You'll never come close to using all that output and live to tell about it. :D Therefore, I would suggest you place them for best frequency response. Welti found that mid-wall placement of 4 subs yielded the best overall response:
http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf

It's hard to tell from your pictures if 4 mid-wall placements will work, but *theoretically* those would be the best spots.

Craig

Craig John, you are correct. I have read that paper. My room isn't perfectly rectangular - extensive bass trapping in all corners. My room designer has mapped out the "best" spots in my room and they work out to be at the quarter-wave cancellation points which are 1/4 of the way along the wall from the front and also from the back. I prewired my room for this, but it looks like it might be a little crowded in the back for this. I'll still try it though!

Craig John, you are correct. I have read that paper. My room isn't perfectly rectangular - extensive bass trapping in all corners. My room designer has mapped out the "best" spots in my room and they work out to be at the quarter-wave cancellation points which are 1/4 of the way along the wall from the front and also from the back. I prewired my room for this, but it looks like it might be a little crowded in the back for this. I'll still try it though!

Our theater is about the same size as yours and our best results with two subwoofer locations are pretty similar to where you have yours placed in the photos. If you're going to stack them, that will probably be a good spot.

With four spread out, we have actually gotten the best results spreading them all out along the front wall behind the screen. We have also achieved good results with two where you have them in the photo and two towards the back of the room (with some phase adjustment to get them in sync.)

Hope that helps,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Good to know. If I do stack them should I place something between the 2 subs? Will the rubber feet leave a mark on the sub on the bottom?
thanks,

I'm afraid anything you put between the rubber feet and the bottom cabinet will only make things worse. A piece of felt would probably protect the finish, but would increase the risk for a catastrophic toppling of the top sub if somebody bumps into it.

I would just make sure that the feet are free of grit and place them very carefully. I can't guarantee that a mark won't develop over time, though.

I suspected as much. I'll try the other positions first and if they aren't optimal I'll stack'em.

Why not get a couple sets of spike feet and the disk isolators? They would look nice and protect the finish along with isolating the two.

If you use the "pad" under the disc isolator then the "tipping" risk is still there. I used slider pads on my rear C6 centre channel (weighs 200lbs with stand) and my installer was worried there might be some movement. I'll check regularly after playing loud music! Nothing worse than sitting in the back row and having a big speaker land on your head!

That's a sharp room Sharp1080! :)

I second that Sharp! Very nice room. Next on my list is room treatments to tame the reflections a little.

I'm afraid anything you put between the rubber feet and the bottom cabinet will only make things worse. A piece of felt would probably protect the finish, but would increase the risk for a catastrophic toppling of the top sub if somebody bumps into it.

I would just make sure that the feet are free of grit and place them very carefully. I can't guarantee that a mark won't develop over time, though.

I stacked mine right out of the boxes. I'm not too worried about marks. I will be in this house for 4-5 more years and I am really limited in my placement of multiple subs. Stacking was pretty much the only option. I will check every month or so to see if any marks are developing and let everyone know. The cool thing is that the Fathoms are not even working hard and are rocking my room. I put in a bunch of my favorite demo's yesterday and my Home Theater seats were shaking! I thought I left my Buttkickers on so I got up to turn them off. I had a big silly grin on my face when I found the Buttkickers off and realized that it was the Fathoms shaking everything :D.

who are these handsome two fellas?! :D

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/rmk_01/IMG_1900.jpg

I was thinking of adding a ML Grotto to my existing JL F112. Is this a bad idea?

Are those speakers Revels?

who are these handsome two fellas?! :D

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/rmk_01/IMG_1900.jpg

I give up, who are they?
They have a nice collection of wooferage though!

I give up, who are they?
They have a nice collection of wooferage though!

kweezr and ransac at RMK's house

the two F113's are RMK's and the two PB13's are kweezr's.

Are those speakers Revels?

Yes, Performa F52's and the C52. Note the towels under the Fathoms to protect Keiths PB13's from the Fathoms spiked heels.:p

Man those F113's look so much sexier than the SVS's!

Yes, Performa F52's and the C52. Note the towels under the Fathoms to protect Keiths PB13's from the Fathoms spiked heels.:p

There needs to be a caption from the SVS that says, "Get off me you heavy bitch!" :D

Surprising how much bigger the SVS is. Just another reason I'm so glad I went with the fathoms. 4 of those SVSs would've looked terrible in my room.

Man those F113's look so much sexier than the SVS's!



There needs to be a caption from the SVS that says, "Get off me you heavy bitch!" :D

Those are 6 words you don't ever want to say to the wife.:p

Those are 6 words you don't ever want to say to the wife.:p

I can just imagine Bill Clinton muttering that to himself.

lol

I can just imagine Bill Clinton muttering that to himself.

LMAO :D

ps- by the way Rob, i'm still way behind your league, but here is a sneak peak at the new jewel of my system:
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f38/ssabripo/MyHTsetup%2001-08/setup_0408014.jpg

Pass Labs, a thing of beauty. Nice amp.

LMAO :D

ps- by the way Rob, i'm still way behind your league, but here is a sneak peak at the new jewel of my system:
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f38/ssabripo/MyHTsetup%2001-08/setup_0408014.jpg

Nice amp Sherv! ...
I would imagine that your two channel setup is about as good as it gets.:cool:

It looks like they will ship in the 4th quarter. :(

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.
Manville,

Is there an update on when the F110 will be released?

Thanks,
John

Awesome amp Sherv. A system I like very much. Loved the 802D when I auditioned them.

So that thing costs $6k. What kind of speakers do you have?

Nice amp Sherv! ...
I would imagine that your two channel setup is about as good as it gets.:cool:

yeah...i'm pretty much were I want to be at the moment. Maybe in a few years I'll upgrade the speakers, but for now, the combination of the Proceed AVP2, the Pass amp, and the Nautilus 802's, are giving me an excellent 2-channel setup.

someday I hope to move to a better house and have a dedicated room like yours....this housing market is not helping at the moment!:o

So that thing costs $6k. What kind of speakers do you have?

There is always a refurb or used in near new condition at audiogon for $2-2.5K. I wonder though, why they are discounted so heavily.

So that thing costs $6k. What kind of speakers do you have?
Ahhhh??? Just look at his signature...

Craig

There is always a refurb or used in near new condition at audiogon for $2-2.5K. I wonder though, why they are discounted so heavily.

correct....you can find the X250 in audiogon for 2.5-3K. They are discounted because the new model is out (X250.5). Same with many other pieces, including speakers like the B&W 802 with the 802D's

Didnt check the links. Damn that's pretty high end. Especially envious of the subs.
And no wonder ssabripo was praising plasma over the projectors ...
I like the projectors myself.

correct....you can find the X250 in audiogon for 2.5-3K. They are discounted because the new model is out (X250.5). Same with many other pieces, including speakers like the B&W 802 with the 802D's

Well, I am in the market for B&W speaker and I have looked hard at a'gon but no luck. Maybe you have a source you would like to share? Please PM. Thanks. I am not quite happy with my Revel setup.

yeah...i'm pretty much were I want to be at the moment. Maybe in a few years I'll upgrade the speakers, but for now, the combination of the Proceed AVP2, the Pass amp, and the Nautilus 802's, are giving me an excellent 2-channel setup.

someday I hope to move to a better house and have a dedicated room like yours....this housing market is not helping at the moment!:o

Just curious, what short list of speaker models would you upgrade to from the 802s?

Just curious, what short list of speaker models would you upgrade to from the 802s?

The 800D is a step-up from the 802D. Not just on paper, I've extensively auditioned both. They're both fantastic though!

Just curious, what short list of speaker models would you upgrade to from the 802s?

these two are in the short list of somewhat "attainable" budgets in the future:

* Avalon Eidolon
* Von Schweikert VR7SE

of course, there is a couple of DIY offerings I'm eyeing as well, but who knows....for now (and next couple of years at least), I'm well set.:)

Question for people that have their JL 113 and how they have it powered.
1- Leave them powered on all the time. Does that use a lot of electricity ?
2- Use auto power. I find this anoying as the sub power off when I listen at low volume.
3- Use a remote switch to power on everything. But I which JL Audio had put a 12v trigger on their subs.

Hey tranle, I find that with my F112, on auto it takes a bit to kick in, but you can off set that by raising the subwoofer level on the receiver end, and drop down the gain on the sub itself. That gets it kicking in alot faster... :)

Ssabripo,

Why did you have to show that X250? Now I have amp envy...again! Going to my ...dealer in the next month(when I get a day off)...they have the X350 oh oh. WHo knows what I many come out with... :) PassLabs produces some of the best aging solid state amps ...even the oldie "cubes" are still objects of desire.

Nelson Pass is a true power amp master,and so far all the amps he designed are references in transparency.

Question for people that have their JL 113 and how they have it powered.
1- Leave them powered on all the time. Does that use a lot of electricity ?
2- Use auto power. I find this anoying as the sub power off when I listen at low volume.
3- Use a remote switch to power on everything. But I which JL Audio had put a 12v trigger on their subs.

A sub that cost a bundle and they can't get the auto on right. To be fair many new subs have this problem. I have to leave my sub (not a JL sub) on all the time too. Had a cheap Polk sub with an auto on feature that worked perfectly -- it's on whenever there is a signal however faint.

I think that having a 12v trigger option on all these subs would be awesome.
Of coarse it would mean running another wire, but hey... that would be a great solution or at least another alternative.

these two are in the short list of somewhat "attainable" budgets in the future:

* Avalon Eidolon
* Von Schweikert VR7SE

of course, there is a couple of DIY offerings I'm eyeing as well, but who knows....for now (and next couple of years at least), I'm well set.:)

I went to the von schweikert website and it said the VR7s are $40,000, now is that a pair or each?

I went to the von schweikert website and it said the VR7s are $40,000, now is that a pair or each?
pair....but, audiogon is your friend! :p

Have you guys seen Carl Kennedy's blog? It's loaded with great information... everything from how to optimize 2 subs, to how to eliminate hum, to de-mystifying interconnect and speaker cables. I spent some time reading it today. It re-enforced a lot of things I already "knew" and opened my eyes to some others:
http://www.theprofessionalanswer.com/WordPress/index.php

IMO, Carl tells it like it is and pulls no punches. The fact that he is JL Audio's Director of Home Products lends great credence to their products.

Craig

^ Very interesting reading. Thanks for the tip.

Woohoo f212 is comming...Woohoo!!! :D

I know what I am adding...do I? Gotham or f212...hmmm

Woohoo f212 is coming...

Care to share your reference?

glennQ

Woohoo f212 is comming...Woohoo!!! :D

I know what I am adding...do I? Gotham or f212...hmmm

Am I the only one who doesn't understand 3/4 of what The Ear say's :D?

outlikealight,

Its not you. lol

Care to share your reference?

glennQ

He was referencing Carl Kennedy's blog. However, "the sneak peak" has suddenly disappeared. Basically 2 12w7 in one enclosure for $6000. Available in June 2008.

Edit: Apparently the cat's been put back in the bag.
http://theprofessionalanswer.com/WordPress/?p=114

i was off by an inch :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11437492&postcount=2824

i was off by an inch :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11437492&postcount=2824

Give that man a coconut! :D

He was referencing Carl Kennedy's blog. However, "the sneak peak" has suddenly disappeared. Basically 2 12w7 in one enclosure for $6000. Available in June 2008.

Edit: Apparently the cat's been put back in the bag.
http://theprofessionalanswer.com/WordPress/?p=114

IIRC, the Gotham was actually selling for $6,000. If I was going to drop $6,000 on subwoofers, I would get 4 Epik Conquests. Still, for those interested in a stacked pair of F112's or stacked pair of F113's, the actual Gotham at $6,000 would be the way that I would go.

Apparently there has not been a lot of interest in the Gotham. If you do a search, you may be able to find out which store was selling the Gotham for $6,000.

Well I finally pulled the trigger on an f113 to replace a good ole venerable Mirage BPS 400. I had an itch that neede some scratcing. Can't wait to start playing with it. I did go for the satin finish...i have had my fill of piano black.

Congrats Rosano, you're gonna love it!

Interesting that they're coming out with an F212. Of course it would happen after I get a pair of pairs! That's okay, looks like I'm going to end up with four separately placed subs rather than the stack.

Manville, you mentioned that JL's room is similar in size to mine. If you have any tips on setting up 4 that would be helpful please post them or PM me. Anything that can reduce the backbreaking moving and measuring process would be helpful!

He was referencing Carl Kennedy's blog. However, "the sneak peak" has suddenly disappeared. Basically 2 12w7 in one enclosure for $6000. Available in June 2008.

Edit: Apparently the cat's been put back in the bag.
http://theprofessionalanswer.com/WordPress/?p=114

N000!!! :eek:

F212.. Need more info.. :eek:

Seriously... I would love more info given that I am about to make a sub purchase.. ;)

N000!!! :eek:

F212.. Need more info.. :eek:

Seriously... I would love more info given that I am about to make a sub purchase.. ;)

if you email JL, they will be happy to give you more info on the 212

they are just not putting anything on the site about it yet

i got a lot of cool info on it yesterday from carl @ JLAudio.com

Interesting that they're coming out with an F212. Of course it would happen after I get a pair of pairs! That's okay, looks like I'm going to end up with four separately placed subs rather than the stack.

Manville, you mentioned that JL's room is similar in size to mine. If you have any tips on setting up 4 that would be helpful please post them or PM me. Anything that can reduce the backbreaking moving and measuring process would be helpful!

There are two approaches that seem to work well in our room with four subs.

A) Four across the front wall spread out laterally (not necessarily evenly).

B) Two on each long wall about 1/4 - 1/3 of the room's length from the nearest short wall (like the manual suggests and illustrates).

Of the two approaches, A is the more visceral and well integrated in our room. Your mileage may vary.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Yeah , I just checked my mail box and Carl replied, boy he is fast.. I sent them an email prior to posting here..

Post the info here! ;)

Not from the email but from the Net. ;)

"Some of you are interested in what we are up to at JL Audio. One thing that we have been up to in recent months is the latest piece of genius from Lucio Proni called the f212. This is the new flagship of the Fathom series and it features 2 new-generation 12W7 drivers that employ the latest audiophile enhancements to the world’s preeminent King of sub-bass. Even lower THD, more precise excursion and lightning quick transient performance from this package. This is anything but a pair of f112s stacked in one enclosure. More accurately, this is the epitome of “secret sauce” and it will be shipping beginning June 2008. Authorized JL AUDIO Dealers are taking pre-orders now. Retail $6k and as always, shame on anyone using fewer than a pair."

http://theprofessionalanswer.com/WordPress/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/f212-color.jpg

Wonder how it will compare to two f112's or one f113.. :confused:

according to the email i got from JL, the new f212 is a "step up" from dual stacked f112's and a "step-up" from the f113

the 212 will not be using the same drivers that are in the 112

from JL:

"these W7 drivers feature Lucio Proni's latest advancements for a significant
improvement in performance over f112 drivers"

"and they utilize a special amplifier as well"

according to the email i got from JL, the new f212 is a "step up" from dual stacked f112's and a "step-up" from the f113

the 212 will not be using the same drivers that are in the 112

from JL:

"these W7 drivers feature Lucio Proni's latest advancements for a significant
improvement in performance over f112 drivers"

"and they utilize a special amplifier as well"

Subjective sound quality aside, will the performance be on par more with a the gotham or the f113...

If more in line with the f113, seeing as how you can pretty much by two f113's for the price of one f212, would the f113 still be the better choice with the f212 aimed at a more specific group of buyers?

Subjective sound quality aside, will the performance be on par more with a the gotham or the f113...

If more in line with the f113, seeing as how you can pretty much by two f113's for the price of one f212, would the f113 still be the better choice with the f212 aimed at a more specific group of buyers?

here's the first email i got:

Sure, thanks for the email.

The f212 is a step up from the f113 or from a pair of stacked f112s. We have developed this in part as a response to the many consumers who want something more than 1- f113 or even 2-f112 per side. Many consumers have a Gotham budget but not a dual Gotham budget and I urge people to use subs in pairs so a pair of f212s will fill that requirement beautifully. At $6k, the f212 will fill a performance and price gap between the f113 at $3,500.- and the Gotham at $11,000.- .

A significant element in the f212 is the special 12W7 we are using. Our Chief Design Engineer and CEO Lucio Proni created the original W7 driver and all that have followed. He has designed these drivers to reflect the latest advancements he has developed on that platform and the performance is stunning (I have a pair of f212s playing in my office. The important thing I can tell you is that this is not a pair of f112 stacked in one enclosure, it steps it up another notch in fidelity.

-Is this an alternative to a Gotham? No.

-Are 2-f212s an alternative to a single Gotham (from a performance perspective)? Yes. If you have $12k to spend and were considering a single Gotham, you would get better sound from a pair of f212s. Aesthetically however, you will never see a Fathom rival the appearance of a Gotham. The Gotham remains the ultimate subwoofer.

As for an f213, I do not believe that this will ever be a product as it really is best conveyed as a Gotham.

A pair of f212s is a step-up from a pair of f113s and even a step up from four f112s. The f212 is not something that represents a replacement for those other f112s or f113s, their performance or price-point which I believe is also important to note. It is the evolution of the line just as the f110 will be as we move smaller too. The f110 will ship in mid June also.

I hope that this helps.

About the "Sneak Peek" posting; I was trying to give some of the devout JL Audio fans out there a glimpse at what's coming up and the response has been a bit overwhelming. I had to pull it down before the word became too widespread, all in due time. The f212 is pretty amazing and you should see it in June. I hope this helps.

You can try me back if you have more questions.

Many consumers have a Gotham budget but not a dual Gotham budget...
Oh, the humanity! :D

So, if I read that right, I'd be better off buying two (2) F113's instead of one (1) F212. Seeing how if I had $12k to blow on subs, it would be the single Gotham. ;)

To break it down further....(performance only...not looks!)

2 F212's > 1 Gotham
1 Gotham > 2 F113's
2 F113's > 1 F212
Any of the above combo > 2 F112's

Did I get that right?

Please forgive if I am asking a question that have been discussed before.
I am REL owner, and I am considering to dive into a JL f113 system. But I am concerned that with the JL I would miss a great REL's feauture that permits to connect the sub hi and low level in the same time, meaning that I don't have to change a thing when I swicth between music and HT. How do you do that with a JL? Do you switch mode all the times you go from music to HT?
I would appreciate your inputs. Thank you

Please forgive if I am asking a question that have been discussed before.
I am REL owner, and I am considering to dive into a JL f113 system. But I am concerned that with the JL I would miss a great REL's feauture that permits to connect the sub hi and low level in the same time, meaning that I don't have to change a thing when I swicth between music and HT. How do you do that with a JL? Do you switch mode all the times you go from music to HT?
I would appreciate your inputs. Thank you


IIRC you can use both sets of inputs on the F113. I've just switched over from REL to JL audio!

you can also buy a new processor that has two settings, one for HT and the other for music, then just set each input for either function.

if you do this, you get to buy subs and new electronics. may cost more money, but in the end, its a whole lot more fun.

So, if I read that right, I'd be better off buying two (2) F113's instead of one (1) F212. Seeing how if I had $12k to blow on subs, it would be the single Gotham. ;)

To break it down further....(performance only...not looks!)

2 F212's > 1 Gotham
1 Gotham > 2 F113's
2 F113's > 1 F212
Any of the above combo > 2 F112's

Did I get that right?

Actually, due to the fact that the Gotham isn't much more than twice the size of the F113, (may be about the same size internal) amplifier becomes the unmovable law that represents output, seeing how 2x F113's have more power than a G213, this makes sense. I have even heard it said that JL confirms that 2x Fathoms is better way to go than a Gotham, the Gotham is really more of a statement product.

I have heard that it takes 3 fathoms stacked on top of one another to equal the one Gotham.

I have also heard that two fathoms spread out across the room will be better than just one lone Gotham.

i sent another email to JL asking if a pair of stacked f113's would be a step-up from the f212, this is what i got back:

"F113s would give more SPL but the f212 is promising lower distortion and even greater fidelity. Either would be a very formidable system."

First-hand experience that dual Fathoms DO NOT equal a single Gotham. I would think that (3) F113's should equal or better the G-man, but haven't put that one to the test.

I just found out that a rep is stopping by our shop next week to demo a pair of F113s. I'm psyched to finally get a chance to experience these subs!

My back hurts........................

Now to sneak it in the basement....LOL......shhhhhhhhhhh quiet !!!!!!

By myself.......

Pray for me.....lol

My back hurts........................

Now to sneak it in the basement....LOL......shhhhhhhhhhh quiet !!!!!!

By myself.......

Pray for me.....lol

Hopefully we don't find a picture of you with the green feet up in the air and you under the box. :eek:

Hopefully we don't find a picture of you with the green feet up in the air and you under the box. :eek:

I hear ya, I will be lugging a F112 pair up a long flight a stairs tomorrow and will be quadraphonic tomorrow afternoon:D. Speaking of quads, where are some pics of your 4 13"s?

I hear ya, I will be lugging a F112 pair up a long flight a stairs tomorrow and will be quadraphonic tomorrow afternoon:D. Speaking of quads, where are some pics of your 4 13"s?Rob, how are you planning to deploy the semi-quads? 12's up front, 13" where they are? 4 corners? 12's as stereo, 13's for LFE? 12's where the 13's are now and the 13's in my house?

Rob, how are you planning to deploy the semi-quads? 12's up front, 13" where they are? 4 corners? 12's as stereo, 13's for LFE? 12's where the 13's are now and the 13's in my house?

I moved the F113's to the back and the F112's will flank the AV cabinet just inside and behind the mains with all four Fathoms run mono off of the SMS-1. There is a Harmon Study (http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf) on multi sub placement that I am using as a guide.

I'll have sound by tonight (if I'm not too drunk after the "meeting" I'm going to!). Just put the Anthem D2 into the mix and have been playing around with the picture, so the sound is next.

Can someone either tell me or PM me where the Gotham is going for $6,000- I would like to get another one- thanks,gary
- I will test these against my Danley DTS-20-:)

......

New owner of a 113...will post some feedback after calibrating and listening, but quick impression: I don't know if I need to use my Buttkickers anymore!

So far, so good...but the "auto" setting is not turning off the Fathom, even after my Onkyo 905 has been off for three hours.

The SUB out from the 905 is split to the Fathom, a Buttkicker amp, and two power Mythos ST towers, all with auto shutoff. The Buttkicker and two Mythos ST's have long since gone into standby since the 905 is off, but the greenlight remains on on the Fathom.

I turned the Fathom off completely, and it did turn off. Turning it back to AUTO caused it to turn on again though the 905 was still not operational.

Connection is via single unbalanced cable.

Any ideas?

So far, so good...but the "auto" setting is not turning off the Fathom, even after my Onkyo 905 has been off for three hours.

The SUB out from the 905 is split to the Fathom, a Buttkicker amp, and two power Mythos ST towers, all with auto shutoff. The Buttkicker and two Mythos ST's have long since gone into standby since the 905 is off, but the greenlight remains on on the Fathom.

I turned the Fathom off completely, and it did turn off. Turning it back to AUTO caused it to turn on again though the 905 was still not operational.

Connection is via single unbalanced cable.

Any ideas?

Before going to bed, I disconnected the RCA cable to see if there was anything feeding back from the other devices on the SUB split that might cause the auto power circuitry on the Fathom to always be triggered on - this morning however, the Fathom is still on....nothing but a power cabled connected to it and the switch set to AUTO. I'm concerned I have a bum unit....Anyone experience this? It's especially odd, since this thread mentions, if anything, the opposite problem on occasion - the inability of the Fathom to tun on unless the SUB level trim is adequately high.

Thanks
Greg

Hopefully some of you F113 owners can help me out here. I'm having a strange issue with mine. On occasion and only in very deep bass, I hear a rattle coming from the sub. Sounds like coffee perculating or a low mechanical rattle. Only for a couple of seconds. Some people thought it might be the limiter kicking in but I have the master volume set at 10 o'clock ad the elf trim is at 12 o'clock and and sometimes I'll drop it by 1.5 - 2db. Any thoughts on this? When I described the issue to JL Audio, they wanted me to send it in for evaluation. I want to avoid if I can. Any help is appreciated.

Tony

adidino,
what overall volume are you listening at when you hear the noises? The output you get from the sub is not just related to the volume control position on the sub, it is also related to the "volume" of the signal coming in. For example, you could have the sub master volume at "8 o'clock" and feed it a loud signal and still hit peak output.

Hopefully some of you F113 owners can help me out here. I'm having a strange issue with mine. On occasion and only in very deep bass, I hear a rattle coming from the sub. Sounds like coffee perculating or a low mechanical rattle. Only for a couple of seconds. Some people thought it might be the limiter kicking in but I have the master volume set at 10 o'clock ad the elf trim is at 12 o'clock and and sometimes I'll drop it by 1.5 - 2db. Any thoughts on this? When I described the issue to JL Audio, they wanted me to send it in for evaluation. I want to avoid if I can. Any help is appreciated.

Tony

What the Bogg said plus, the steel pins that hold the grilles on are also the bolts that hold the font panel of the sub. I noticed that several of these were a little loose on my F113's and f112's. If you can wiggle them you may want to try (carefully) tightening them. You will need a 7mm open end wrench. Brett Hanes (Sr Engineer at JL) suggested I check this when I reported a similar problem a few months back.

I understand.. It's not at an unreasonable level. It's level matched well with the rest of the speakers. However, I will add it does not happen when I drop the volume on the processor. I find it hard to believe I'm pushing this sub though. I've had other subs in the past much louder and it doesn't happen. I will check out the bolts that hold the dust cover but I've gotten the same results with the cover off. I guess no one else has experienced this?

I understand.. It's not at an unreasonable level. It's level matched well with the rest of the speakers. However, I will add it does not happen when I drop the volume on the processor. I find it hard to believe I'm pushing this sub though. I've had other subs in the past much louder and it doesn't happen. I will check out the bolts that hold the dust cover but I've gotten the same results with the cover off. I guess no one else has experienced this?

The rattle doesn't come from wall/floor/room/ceiling furniture or else ?

Before going to bed, I disconnected the RCA cable to see if there was anything feeding back from the other devices on the SUB split that might cause the auto power circuitry on the Fathom to always be triggered on - this morning however, the Fathom is still on....nothing but a power cabled connected to it and the switch set to AUTO. I'm concerned I have a bum unit....Anyone experience this? It's especially odd, since this thread mentions, if anything, the opposite problem on occasion - the inability of the Fathom to tun on unless the SUB level trim is adequately high.

Thanks
Greg



Are you using an adapter on your power cord

DJoel

nope.. original power cord. No adapter...

Are you using an adapter on your power cord

DJoel
No - (you mean a ground cheater, corrrect?) No, original power cable direct to the wall - tried a few different outlets.

No - (you mean a ground cheater, corrrect?) No, original power cable direct to the wall - tried a few different outlets.


Yes, I was told that this sometimes affects the sub sensor..Mine does the same thing, I've had it a little over a year now. I just manually turn it off.


Djoel

Yes, I was told that this sometimes affects the sub sensor..Mine does the same thing, I've had it a little over a year now. I just manually turn it off.


Djoel

Thanks - it would seem odd that it could be powerline related - my understanding is that the sensors are monitoring the balanced and unbalanced signals only - all the other power sensing equipment in my room has no issue (two BPVX/P powered surrounds, two Mythos ST's, and a Buttkicker amp.....

The rattle doesn't come from wall/floor/room/ceiling furniture or else ?


At first I thought it might be. But then I played it back a few times while standing next to the sub. It's coming from the sub no question about it.

Thanks - it would seem odd that it could be powerline related - my understanding is that the sensors are monitoring the balanced and unbalanced signals only - all the other power sensing equipment in my room has no issue (two BPVX/P powered surrounds, two Mythos ST's, and a Buttkicker amp.....


Mine continues to do the same behavior as yours, but I hear what you saying I also have Mythos St's that tends to work without any issues..

I just remembered I did own some powered Infinity speakers and rear speakers years ago that would turn off every five minutes. So during silent moment during a film I would get all the 'CLICK' CLICK' CLICK" CLICK', very annoying I tell you.

Djoel

So this weekend I got a chance to let my F113 spread it's wings on the new movie, Cloverfield.

Right at the opening scene there is really low bass, about eight lonnng bass notes, with not much sound information coming from any other speakers, but the sub. On the third bass hit, I noticed a distracting high clipping-like sound from my F113 that sounded out of place, like the sub was over extending. I had the volume set at -5db from reference so i don't think i was pushing it hard and I was surprised i got distortion!!! My bro, who is not an audiophile, even said "you know your sub is distorting". :(

I don't think this should be close to the limits of this sub. I only have it +1 db HOT and it REALLY disappoints me that it was distorting!

Can anyone test out their F113 in the opening scene of Cloverfield and report if your sub sounds clean throughout tthe opening scene in Cloverfield???? I hope i don't have a dud.

Does the sound go away when you back down the volume? What do you have the ELF trim set to? Are you using any kind of EQ?

Dude.. I have the same problem. Opening scene in Cloverfield. Sounds like coffee perculating or something.. I still haven't found an answer. I get the same thing on one short scene in I am legend as well..

So this weekend I got a chance to let my F113 spread it's wings on the new movie, Cloverfield.

Right at the opening scene there is really low bass, about eight lonnng bass notes, with not much sound information coming from any other speakers, but the sub. On the third bass hit, I noticed a distracting high clipping-like sound from my F113 that sounded out of place, like the sub was over extending. I had the volume set at -5db from reference so i don't think i was pushing it hard and I was surprised i got distortion!!! My bro, who is not an audiophile, even said "you know your sub is distorting". :(

I don't think this should be close to the limits of this sub. I only have it +1 db HOT and it REALLY disappoints me that it was distorting!

Can anyone test out their F113 in the opening scene of Cloverfield and report if your sub sounds clean throughout tthe opening scene in Cloverfield???? I hope i don't have a dud.

So this weekend I got a chance to let my F113 spread it's wings on the new movie, Cloverfield.

Right at the opening scene there is really low bass, about eight lonnng bass notes, with not much sound information coming from any other speakers, but the sub. On the third bass hit, I noticed a distracting high clipping-like sound from my F113 that sounded out of place, like the sub was over extending. I had the volume set at -5db from reference so i don't think i was pushing it hard and I was surprised i got distortion!!! My bro, who is not an audiophile, even said "you know your sub is distorting". :(

I don't think this should be close to the limits of this sub. I only have it +1 db HOT and it REALLY disappoints me that it was distorting!

Can anyone test out their F113 in the opening scene of Cloverfield and report if your sub sounds clean throughout tthe opening scene in Cloverfield???? I hope i don't have a dud.






Sorry to hear about that, but I've heard some passages in Cloverfield goes down to 5hz:eek:

djoel

Does the sound go away when you back down the volume? What do you have the ELF trim set to? Are you using any kind of EQ?

Yup, when i run it at -8 db from reference I can just about make it sound smooth with no clipping.

ELF is set a 0db, and no EQ'ing just level calibrated to +1 above main speakers.

:(

The opening scene doesn't seem too demanding. I think i am just noticing this now as other movies the mains would be going off which blankets any distortion from the sub. Since this sub passage is only with the sub, I think i am just noticing it now.

I hope it's a design limitation of the sub. Just need more F113 owners to concur with my experience.

Dude.. I have the same problem. Opening scene in Cloverfield. Sounds like coffee perculating or something.. I still haven't found an answer. I get the same thing on one short scene in I am legend as well..

Glad i'm not alone on this one and someone is also experiencing this distortion. What level were you starting to get this clipping noise?

I honestly expected that the F113 would handle almost anything thrown at it, I guess not! No wonder people in this forum are getting multiple subs, for headroom!!

So anyone else test out the opening scene of Cloverfield????

I'm at about 9 oclock on the sub maybe a bit higher (10 oclock max) 0 LFE Trim. Proc set to 0 on calibration -1 compared to the speakers. There should be no reason this sub can't handle that though.. doesn't make sense. I called JL Audio about it and they couldn't explain it. Wanted me to send the sub in. I want to hold off on that until I find some explaination for it.

I'm at about 9 oclock on the sub maybe a bit higher (10 oclock max) 0 LFE Trim. Proc set to 0 on calibration -1 compared to the speakers. There should be no reason this sub can't handle that though.. doesn't make sense. I called JL Audio about it and they couldn't explain it. Wanted me to send the sub in. I want to hold off on that until I find some explaination for it.

So are you getting this when at Reference level. Does it start for you earlier, like at -5db on your proc?

I could start to hear mine distorting at about 76db (85db is reference on my processor) and the distortion progressively gets louder as i approach reference.

It sounds like taking a mug and tapping it really fast over wood. The distortion is higher pitch than the sub bass. Nevertheless it sounds like it's distorting. :mad:

Just a suggestion here. Perhaps the guys at JL could test an in-house Fathom with the movie to see if they can reproduce the problem. That would be much less hassle than shipping out a Fathom.

So this weekend I got a chance to let my F113 spread it's wings on the new movie, Cloverfield.

Right at the opening scene there is really low bass, about eight lonnng bass notes, with not much sound information coming from any other speakers, but the sub. On the third bass hit, I noticed a distracting high clipping-like sound from my F113 that sounded out of place, like the sub was over extending. I had the volume set at -5db from reference so i don't think i was pushing it hard and I was surprised i got distortion!!! My bro, who is not an audiophile, even said "you know your sub is distorting". :(

I don't think this should be close to the limits of this sub. I only have it +1 db HOT and it REALLY disappoints me that it was distorting!

Can anyone test out their F113 in the opening scene of Cloverfield and report if your sub sounds clean throughout tthe opening scene in Cloverfield???? I hope i don't have a dud.

i got the same exact thing with my svs pb-12NSD on the beggining scene of cloverfield...it turned out my LFE level on the receiver was at +2...

I haven't really noted when I can stop it but now that I'm not alone I'm going to take some notes on this. I know I can stop it if I drop the master volume a bit.. I may start with the LFE trim and work my way from there. I suppose it's possible we have bad subs. I would assume others would have complained about this..

Just a suggestion here. Perhaps the guys at JL could test an in-house Fathom with the movie to see if they can reproduce the problem. That would be much less hassle than shipping out a Fathom.

I like that idea!

Mr Manville Smith, care to test out an F113 on the opening scene of Cloverfield and report at -5db below reference and at reference???

I am hoping that it's not a limitation of the sub and mine is defective.