It's not dead center but pretty close. After a quick measure, dead center is about where the cup holders are on the seats. I was aware that dead center was a null but my ears are not in the center of the room. Unless dead center is not a science?

Don't forget that if your 2nd row is near the back wall, you'll be getting gain off it. Combine that with the near-center null position of the 1st row and you could easily have 10dB swing...

Fuuuu$#$! After waiting 2 months to get my balanced power transformer back I have just encountered what looks like another product failure. One of the F113s is making a "rattling" noise, even at low volume. I think someone else had this problem on this thread a long time ago, I don't remember what the cause was. Even if I disconnect the sub from the source and just run the demo mode it does the same rattling thing. The other 3 don't have this problem. Not impressed.

Sorry to hear that Asher. I had a similar problem with an F113 and I was told to check and tighten as necessary the front baffle bolts. They are the SS pins that also hold the grille covers on the F113.

Fuuuu$#$! After waiting 2 months to get my balanced power transformer back I have just encountered what looks like another product failure. One of the F113s is making a "rattling" noise, even at low volume. I think someone else had this problem on this thread a long time ago, I don't remember what the cause was. Even if I disconnect the sub from the source and just run the demo mode it does the same rattling thing. The other 3 don't have this problem. Not impressed.

That was me.. turned out I was just running the sub a little too hot plus my Anthem at the time was causing the JL to clip.. I don't have that issue at all right now I'm going to retest running the sub hot with my Cary 11A.


Thanks for reminding me :)

What does the rattle sound like? Like coffee perculating in a pot?

Yeah it does sound like coffee percolating. Even with the "demo" button on the sub it rattles so it's not an issue of overload.

Thanks for the tip Rob, I'll try tightening bolts because it does just sound like something's loose.

I think Rob mentioned that tip to me as well but I couldn't find a wrench to grab those pegs tight enough to crank them.

Yeah it does sound like coffee percolating. Even with the "demo" button on the sub it rattles so it's not an issue of overload.

Thanks for the tip Rob, I'll try tightening bolts because it does just sound like something's loose.

Only tighten if they are loose (they move when you try and wiggle them by hand) and be carefull not to over tighten.

I thought I had a good collection of wrenches but the 1/4 is too small and the 5/16 is too big! I have metric but they only go down to 8mm. Looks like I'll be making a trip to the hardware store! I don't think they are loose enough to wiggle but I'll try
gently tightening them to see if that helps. Otherwise it's going to have to be schlepped to the service centre.

The correct wrench is 7 mm. A small adjustable crescent wrench may work, too.

The correct wrench is 7 mm. A small adjustable crescent wrench may work, too.

Have you heard of this issue before?

Have you heard of this issue before?

Yes, one of the forum members had an issue which was resolved with some tightening of the grille stud screws... that's the only one I'm aware of, though.

Yeah it does sound like coffee percolating. Even with the "demo" button on the sub it rattles so it's not an issue of overload.

Thanks for the tip Rob, I'll try tightening bolts because it does just sound like something's loose.


Does this happen when you have the gain on max?

It's independent of the gain. Happens in demo mode on Reference (fixed) level. I haven't played around with the gain level but since it occurs even without an input it's not an input overload condition.
JL is replacing the sub under warranty. Tightening the bolts didn't help. They figure that maybe it is a wiring harness or something that has come loose and is rubbing on the back of the woofer. We'll see if I get an answer after they look at it.

Within 48hrs of developing a problem I have a new sub. I spoke with the distributor on Monday who suggested calling Ward at JL in Florida. After a few questions, Ward called Gemsen and authorized a replacement. I tried calling Gemsen on Tuesday but it was like the guy was dodging me (he says that he was busy which is fair enough but it only takes 2 minutes to call me back and I did spend 14 grand for the subs so I didn't think it was too much to ask for). Got a hold of him today and then my bro and I lugged the sub in for replacement (I was very lucky that the box JUST fit into my wife's RDX with one seat folded down so I didn't have to remove the baby seat, which is a pita to put back in in the cold).

They put the sub on the testbench and for a moment I thought he was going to say it was fine but thankfully the noise was reproducible.

The new sub is at home waiting to be unboxed and then we'll be back up to quad power.

Hopefully that's the end of my problem run - I've had enough of different product issues.

Within 48hrs of developing a problem I have a new sub. I spoke with the distributor on Monday who suggested calling Ward at JL in Florida. After a few questions, Ward called Gemsen and authorized a replacement. I tried calling Gemsen on Tuesday but it was like the guy was dodging me (he says that he was busy which is fair enough but it only takes 2 minutes to call me back and I did spend 14 grand for the subs so I didn't think it was too much to ask for). Got a hold of him today and then my bro and I lugged the sub in for replacement (I was very lucky that the box JUST fit into my wife's RDX with one seat folded down so I didn't have to remove the baby seat, which is a pita to put back in in the cold).

They put the sub on the testbench and for a moment I thought he was going to say it was fine but thankfully the noise was reproducible.

The new sub is at home waiting to be unboxed and then we'll be back up to quad power.

Hopefully that's the end of my problem run - I've had enough of different product issues.

That is a good outcome Asher. I found JL was great when I had an issue with one of my Fathoms.

Just in time for a Christmas a movie. There is some great LFE in It's a Wonderful Life :p;).

Happy Holidays:)

Happy holidays to you too Rob.

I'm pleased to note that the new sub works perfectly.

Now it's time to enjoy the system!

Never had any JL home audio equipment, but I've had experience with a JL 13W7 woofer in ported box paired with a 1000.1 amp and it was ridiculous.

i will have to say at that price i can buld 1 killer sub.

can someone help me I just ordered 2 f113 and I need to set them up from what I am reading they have to be linked with a xlr cable is this correct? A rca won't work I wasn't going to buy xlr's till I was sure of the placement.

Also how do I run the ARO system do I run it sepratly on each then link together or is there a special way to set up both subs so it does it together not sure here just confused and want to be prepaired.

can someone help me I just ordered 2 f113 and I need to set them up from what I am reading they have to be linked with a xlr cable is this correct? A rca won't work I wasn't going to buy xlr's till I was sure of the placement.

Also how do I run the ARO system do I run it sepratly on each then link together or is there a special way to set up both subs so it does it together not sure here just confused and want to be prepaired.

Not sure about ARO and 2 subs, but as for the first question....you don't need XLR cable, RCA will work just fine.

Not sure about ARO and 2 subs, but as for the first question....you don't need XLR cable, RCA will work just fine.
If you connect them with a "Y-cable", you don't need an XLR cable. You just "Y" the RCA cable. However, if you run them Master/Slave, you do need an XLR cable to go from the Master to the Slave, even if you run an RCA cable to the Master. Also, if you want to run ARO on both subs at the same time, you need to run them in Master/Slave mode. The Master sends the ARO signal to both subs and sets the single band of EQ for best effect on the *combined* signal.

Craig

If you connect them with a "Y-cable", you don't need an XLR cable. You just "Y" the RCA cable. However, if you run them Master/Slave, you do need an XLR cable to go from the Master to the Slave, even if you run an RCA cable to the Master. Also, if you want to run ARO on both subs at the same time, you need to run them in Master/Slave mode. The Master sends the ARO signal to both subs and sets the single band of EQ for best effect on the *combined* signal.

Craig

Shows how much I know. Thanks for correcting me Craig. Sorry about the misinformation programmergeek

Jason,

What Craig said...

The XLR cable can be a lesser expensive mic cable (Whirlwind comes to mind) as long as it is a straight through cable, pin 1 to 1, 2 to 2 and 3 to 3.

You might get better results running Y cable in back of your AVR or surround processor. In that case I'd run ARO on each sub separate.

Glad to see you in the JL family...

Ok this concerns me a bit if I run the AOR together on both subs I relise it will set a avrage but wouldn't it be better to tune each sub seprate? After all they are in different spots in the room and I would thing it would make for a more uniform sound.

Can they be tuned seprate seprate then put in master and slave mode or is that just not possible.

What is the best way to run them master and slave or just with a spliter and can I split a xlr or do I have to go rca?

I'm just confused because I think you should alwas tune the speaker indivually to the room but then why even have a master slave mode what is the advantage to it? I would like to minimise cableing.

Ok this concerns me a bit if I run the AOR together on both subs I relise it will set a avrage but wouldn't it be better to tune each sub seprate? After all they are in different spots in the room and I would thing it would make for a more uniform sound.

Can they be tuned seprate seprate then put in master and slave mode or is that just not possible.

What is the best way to run them master and slave or just with a spliter and can I split a xlr or do I have to go rca?

I'm just confused because I think you should alwas tune the speaker indivually to the room but then why even have a master slave mode what is the advantage to it? I would like to minimise cableing.


Yes the ARO can be programmed seperately, this coming straight from JL audio over the phone when I first purchased my two Fathoms. I have tried master into the slave XLR method and then tried both XLR and RCA. The master/slave connection was great. I ended up using a Y with two RCA connections input at the sub connection. Both methods souned fine although I did have more hum in my system with the XLR than with the RCA. I also like you want to minimise the cabling in my room. Good luck keep us posted.

I am a happy owner of two JL 113's
But I see in the spec sheet that they go down to 20hz.

I read people talking about 5hz and up.
Am I missing something, since 90% of my use, is Home Theater, on this system?

Thanks

I am a happy owner of two JL 113's
But I see in the spec sheet that they go down to 20hz.

I read people talking about 5hz and up.
Am I missing something, since 90% of my use, is Home Theater, on this system?

Thanks

I'm sort of in the same boat. I'm on the fence on getting a second F113 or getting a much larger sub for LFE to improve tactical performance. I suppose it depends on what you're looking to accomplish.

Some go with two musical subs like the F113 upfront plus something much larger and capable of deeper bass response like the Def Tech Trinity for ultra low freq and move more air.

Ok this concerns me a bit if I run the AOR together on both subs I relise it will set a avrage but wouldn't it be better to tune each sub seprate? After all they are in different spots in the room and I would thing it would make for a more uniform sound.

Can they be tuned seprate seprate then put in master and slave mode or is that just not possible.

What is the best way to run them master and slave or just with a spliter and can I split a xlr or do I have to go rca?

I'm just confused because I think you should alwas tune the speaker indivually to the room but then why even have a master slave mode what is the advantage to it? I would like to minimise cableing.
You can do it either way and get good results. The advantage of using Maser/Slave is that the Master sets the level and phase for the slave, eliminating that part of the setup process. Also, using Master/Slave applies ARO to the *combined* output, which is what you actually hear. Applying it separately to each sub may or may not improve the *combined* result.

Craig

You can do it either way and get good results. The advantage of using Maser/Slave is that the Master sets the level and phase for the slave, eliminating that part of the setup process. Also, using Master/Slave applies ARO to the *combined* output, which is what you actually hear. Applying it separately to each sub may or may not improve the *combined* result.

Craig

Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding of ARO is that it will cut the largest room mode excited by the sub.

That being the case, if the subs are in two different locations, they could theoretically excite two different room modes.

Therefore, in such a scenario, running ARO separately on each sub (with the microphone in the same exact position) would be beneficial, right?

Mark

You can do it either way and get good results. The advantage of using Maser/Slave is that the Master sets the level and phase for the slave, eliminating that part of the setup process. Also, using Master/Slave applies ARO to the *combined* output, which is what you actually hear. Applying it separately to each sub may or may not improve the *combined* result.

Craig


I just had this conversation with a proud new owner of a pair of f212 subs, and I totally agree.
I'll add, Owners/installers can choose a quick setup; use the master/slave mode, and get great results... But I would experiment with all type of configurations far beyond what the ARO setup is. In other words, the "right" answer is to try both and you'll know.

glennQ

Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding of ARO is that it will cut the largest room mode excited by the sub.

That being the case, if the subs are in two different locations, they could theoretically excite two different room modes.

Therefore, in such a scenario, running ARO separately on each sub (with the microphone in the same exact position) would be beneficial, right?

Mark
It depends. If sub 1 has a peak at say 50 Hz and you use ARO to cut it, but the addition of the second sub also causes a softening of that peak by some destructive interference, then, in the *combined* output of the 2 subs, that peak would be cut too much. That's why I said, "Applying it separately to each sub may or may not improve the *combined* result." As was stated by glennQNYC, it's best to try both ways and see which works best.

Personally, I don't use ARO. I set my F112's in Master/Slave and run Audyssey, (according to *your* guide! :) )

Craig

It depends. If sub 1 has a peak at say 50 Hz and you use ARO to cut it, but the addition of the second sub also causes a softening of that peak by some destructive interference, then, in the *combined* output of the 2 subs, that peak would be cut too much. That's why I said, "Applying it separately to each sub may or may not improve the *combined* result." As was stated by glennQNYC, it's best to try both ways and see which works best.



Craig I see your point but then you would still have a peek at 50 Hz in some areas of the room and in others you will not because as you move around the room you will hear one sub more than another. In theory I would think AORing each on its own then using that as a base line and then (AORing) tweeking them together would give the most uniform result in the whole listening area. Maybe I am just over analyzing this.

Craig I see your point but then you would still have a peek at 50 Hz in some areas of the room and in others you will not because as you move around the room you will hear one sub more than another.
Exactly. That's why I use Audyssey instead of ARO. Audyssey measures and EQ's the combined result of both subs over a listening *area*, not just a single point. It also EQ's in the time domain as well as the frequency domain. It reduces ringing and overhang as well as flattening the FR.

In theory I would think AORing each on its own then using that as a base line and then (AORing) tweeking them together would give the most uniform result in the whole listening area. Maybe I am just over analyzing this.
You can *either* do them individually, or do them separately. You can't do both. You can't "store" the results from each individual ARO session and then do a "combined" ARO in the results. Each time you run ARO, you lose the results of the previous session.

You could run ARO on each sub individually, and then use some other EQ to fix the combined result. I recommend Audyssey. :)

Craig

It depends. If sub 1 has a peak at say 50 Hz and you use ARO to cut it, but the addition of the second sub also causes a softening of that peak by some destructive interference, then, in the *combined* output of the 2 subs, that peak would be cut too much. That's why I said, "Applying it separately to each sub may or may not improve the *combined* result." As was stated by glennQNYC, it's best to try both ways and see which works best.

Personally, I don't use ARO. I set my F112's in Master/Slave and run Audyssey, (according to *your* guide! :) )

Craig

Damn, foiled by the Audyssey Setup Guide again. :eek:

Actually, I saw that Chris had told someone to definitely not use any PEQ for subs, which is counter to what is in the guide. I am going to reply to that post asking for clarification after the holidays.

I too am thinking of only running Audyssey on the subs now.

Mark

Exactly. That's why I use Audyssey instead of ARO. Audyssey measures and EQ's the combined result of both subs over a listening *area*, not just a single point. It also EQ's in the time domain as well as the frequency domain. It reduces ringing and overhang as well as flattening the FR.


You can *either* do them individually, or do them separately. You can't do both. You can't "store" the results from each individual ARO session and then do a "combined" ARO in the results. Each time you run ARO, you lose the results of the previous session.

You could run ARO on each sub individually, and then use some other EQ to fix the combined result. I recommend Audyssey. :)

Craig


I run them together as master and slave ran the ARO and then applied Audyssey and works like a dream.

Hello,
I bought an f113 and i am now reading the manual, which it states that in a rectangular room the seating spot should be avoided in the center of that room. Now, I don't have much choices to make, actually none, I. Regard to where to put the couch and so my question is: what if that room illustrated in the manual is an L shaped room-with open flange on one side? Does that theory still stand?
Thanks

Hello,
I bought an f113 and i am now reading the manual, which it states that in a rectangular room the seating spot should be avoided in the center of that room. Now, I don't have much choices to make, actually none, I. Regard to where to put the couch and so my question is: what if that room illustrated in the manual is an L shaped room-with open flange on one side? Does that theory still stand?
Thanks

Outside of a sealed rectangular room, all bets are off, so that theory does not stand...or sit :rolleyes:

Mark

If someone can pm me the best place to purchase the JL sub, I would appreciate it. Thanks!
I'm also interested in buying an F113 (I don't have a dealer nearby). If anyone knows a reputable seller--could they contact me?

Thank you,
Doug

I have a F113 with 120V outlet (USA Version).
I'll be moving to Europe and obviously want to keep my sub. (and my other electronics that do not have a switch to choose the proper voltage)

Anybody with experience doing this with this sub or other high end electronics?

I'm worried that the power inverter/converter from 230V to 120V would give me a "dirty" feed and add noise, hum, or any other annoying artifact to the sound.

Am I over worried? What should I do?

I also have several APC SmartUPS's that I would like to keep but all have the same 120V outlets as they where made to be used in North America...
I do not use a battery backup on my sub now...just my other electronics.

THanks for the suggestions.

Nikos

I have a F113 with 120V outlet (USA Version).
I'll be moving to Europe and obviously want to keep my sub. (and my other electronics that do not have a switch to choose the proper voltage)

Anybody with experience doing this with this sub or other high end electronics?


Nikos,

We can convert your Fathom to 240V operation (60 Hz or 50 Hz). Please contact your dealer and they can arrange to send it to us for the procedure.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

How low does a F113 go? 20hz?

What am I missing below 20hz in HT mode?

Thanks

Nikos,

We can convert your Fathom to 240V operation (60 Hz or 50 Hz). Please contact your dealer and they can arrange to send it to us for the procedure.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Thanks for the quick response. Definitely the best case scenario.

I was curious however how an inverter would or would not work.
I called tech support and they did not suggest or have experience with an inverter and as they do not have control of what happens in the field the most important factor in an inverter would be its capacity to keep a solid 15Amp current and his thoughts where that they would do a poor job at it ... an educated guess if you will...

Just out of curiosity has anyone done this? I've seen a few 3000W inverters that do not have their Amp spec, but they do come with 30Amp spare fuses :)

Thanks again,
Nikos

I've seen a few 3000W inverters that do not have their Amp spec, but they do come with 30Amp spare fuses

3000w/110v = 27.3a

glennQ

3000w/110v = 27.3a

glennQ


Sorry to make this thread an electricity lesson... but

Does the fact that I'm taking 230v and making it 110v affect your equation?

or it would only be different if I was trying to plug a 230v device in it in the USA where the feed would be 110v?

When would this equation come into play? 3000w/230v = 13a ?

Thanks :)

Nikos

Can anyone confirm if the demo button runs through one cycle and stop or should it loop until you disengage?

It has always run through one cycle and disengaged for me.

Thanks!

Any thoughts on how I can be sure my sub is working 100%? I'm not getting very good bass response from my f113 in my room but I want to rule out the sub first before I look at other possible factors.

Anyone try this scene linked from this thread?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15076285&postcount=1

It is the last scene when the Panda performs the "skadoosh" move.

I am able to get about -8db from reference level before there is noticeable clacking-like distortion from my F113. Maybe dual subs is what is starting to be the minimum now with these latest movies.

How do others compare?

Anyone try this scene linked from this thread?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15076285&postcount=1

It is the last scene when the Panda performs the "skadoosh" move.

I am able to get about -8db from reference level before there is noticeable clacking-like distortion from my F113. Maybe dual subs is what is starting to be the minimum now with these latest movies.

How do others compare?

What did you use to calibrate your sub? Maybe you're running a little hot?

Radioshack meter at 0db relative to mains

70db? 80db? what??

Not sure what I understand what you mean. I use Avia and based on the test tones I calibrate each channel to 85db if that is what you mean. From what i said earlier, I am running the sub 0db relative to the mains.

Anyways, I went through some recent "sub" intense movies like Iron Man, the scene noted above in Kungfu Panda, and Cloverfield (all in HD Audio), and I noticed my single F113 struggling on the more demanding scenes. I think a second F113 is needed!

Not sure what I understand what you mean. I use Avia and based on the test tones I calibrate each channel to 85db if that is what you mean. From what i said earlier, I am running the sub 0db relative to the mains.

Anyways, I went through some recent "sub" intense movies like Iron Man, the scene noted above in Kungfu Panda, and Cloverfield (all in HD Audio), and I noticed my single F113 struggling on the more demanding scenes. I think a second F113 is needed!

From what I understand about the Avia tests, they are accurate at reference. If you have your prepro or receiver set to "0"db and are calibrating your sub to 85db, that's pretty hot. I had a similar issue and recalibrated all speakers and sub to 75db.

From what I understand about the Avia tests, they are accurate at reference. If you have your prepro or receiver set to "0"db and are calibrating your sub to 85db, that's pretty hot. I had a similar issue and recalibrated all speakers and sub to 75db.

From what i read here Avia needs to be calibrated to 85db. My prepro's scale is from 0-100 and I chose to set the "Reference" mark to be 80 on the dial. From my understanding, I could set any point to be reference as long as that point measures 85db for all channels than the sub is not running hot. The "0db" i was refering is the delta relative to the 85db of the mains. If i was running hot i would be setting the sub >85db, which i am not.

From what i read here Avia needs to be calibrated to 85db. My prepro's scale is from 0-100 and I chose to set the "Reference" mark to be 80 on the dial. From my understanding, I could set any point to be reference as long as that point measures 85db for all channels than the sub is not running hot. The "0db" i was refering is the delta relative to the 85db of the mains. If i was running hot i would be setting the sub >85db, which i am not.

I think it just hit me.. didn't we both have the same issue with Cloverfield back several months ago? Did you ever resolve that?

Scandido - I checked with other sources.. Avia sound tests output at the correct 75db reference. I suggest you select a reference level on your receiver and calibrate your speakers and sub to 75db. I think it would be pretty safe to push the sub 2-3db higher relative to the subs if you prefer more bass. Just keep in mind that an RS SPL is about 3db off when measuring sub output. So 75db from the sub is actually around 78db or so.

Let me know..

Scandido - I checked with other sources.. Avia sound tests output at the correct 75db reference. I suggest you select a reference level on your receiver and calibrate your speakers and sub to 75db. I think it would be pretty safe to push the sub 2-3db higher relative to the subs if you prefer more bass. Just keep in mind that an RS SPL is about 3db off when measuring sub output. So 75db from the sub is actually around 78db or so.

Let me know..
Avia uses 85 for setting Reference Level:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/speakers-subwoofers/10729-avia-note-subwoofer-calibration.html
The first post is from Guy Kuo, the author of Avia. It is an excellent explanation of how to use Avia to calibrate a subwoofer. See also post #8 were he specifies 85 dB.

Craig

Avia uses 85 for setting Reference Level:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/speakers-subwoofers/10729-avia-note-subwoofer-calibration.html
The first post is from Guy Kuo, the author of Avia. It is an excellent explanation of how to use Avia to calibrate a subwoofer. See also post #8 were he specifies 85 dB.

Craig

Interesting.. does this apply to Avia II as well? I guess I'm receiving conflicting information. So if my speakers and sub are calibrated to 75db using test tones generated by the prepro/receiver, Avia test tones will output at 85db... Correct?

Interesting.. does this apply to Avia II as well? I guess I'm receiving conflicting information. So if my speakers and sub are calibrated to 75db using test tones generated by the prepro/receiver, Avia test tones will output at 85db... Correct?
Correct, although I can't verify for Avia II as I've never used it.

Craig

How low does a F113 go? 20hz?

What am I missing below 20hz in HT mode?

Thanks I want to know this as well.

My F112 has output down to about 17hz in my room and then drops sharply below that. The F113 is supposed to have 1hz lower extension.

My F112 has output down to about 17hz in my room and then drops sharply below that. The F113 is supposed to have 1hz lower extension.


Actually it's pretty close. I have two F113's and it starts to roll off around 18hz. My room is 20"x15". I still feel a little push of energy at 10hz but way off the tickle my innards scale.:rolleyes:

The Fathom can be operated with unbalanced (RCA) input connections (mono or stereo) OR with balanced (XLR or 1/4-inch TRS) connections (mono or stereo).

If your pre-pro has balanced subwoofer output(s), get one or two XLR cables and run those. If not, then use RCA cables and follow the instructions in the manual for optimal connection.

The female XLR input is like nothing I've seen before.

I ordered Male -> Female XLR cable from Bluejeans... the same type of cable I use between my processor & amps. The 3 pin male side of the cable doesn't fit into the XLR female receptical on the f113. Is there some special/alternate form of XLR termination that I need to use?

edit: looks like it may be a Neutrik combo jack on the f113 which I hadn't seen before. Maybe I just need to push harder, but I don't have clear view of the input and wanted to feel the pins set on the holes before I did.

It is, in fact, a Neutrik combo jack. Your XLR cable will fit just fine.

Anyone here place their F113 in the back of the room? I'm looking to do some experimenting this weekend and I was considering placing my sub in the back corner. Does anyone see any potential negative affects with rear placement? Room is 21x12, crossing over at 80hz all around.

Also - 1 single F212 or dual F113 stacked? Comments? :)

Anyone here place their F113 in the back of the room? I'm looking to do some experimenting this weekend and I was considering placing my sub in the back corner. Does anyone see any potential negative affects with rear placement? Room is 21x12, crossing over at 80hz all around.

Also - 1 single F212 or dual F113 stacked? Comments? :)

I used REW to find the best location for my f113 mid way against the back wall,...the other location just so happened to be mid way along the front wall. It took a bit of phase adjustment on the sub to bend smoothly with the mains and it sounds excellent and does not draw any attention to where it's located :)

I used REW to find the best location for my f113 mid way against the back wall,...the other location just so happened to be mid way along the front wall. It took a bit of phase adjustment on the sub to bend smoothly with the mains and it sounds excellent and does not draw any attention to where it's located :)

So one on each side.. makes sense. Anyone have experience with stacked F113's? vs an F212?

Hello,
I am about to power on my second f113. Before I do that I was hoping to get an important info from you.
In the location where the second sub is placed I have the necessity of using a longer power cord which I already have been using with a different sub. Can that it be used with JL? I know they mention in the manual to use only the provvided cord but is that ok to use third party power cord-I belive it's 15ft 10awg-?
Thanks
Oro

That's to cover themselves when someone uses anything other than what is supplied and a problem occurs.I had to use my aftermarket BMI Whale elite PC's in order to place both subs properly in my room into the dedicated circuits! I was short by 2 feet.:rolleyes:

No problems with either PC since day one.

So one on each side.. makes sense. Anyone have experience with stacked F113's? vs an F212?


I also have F113 Fathoms on each side of my room slightly behind my mains. I am going to try and get my dealer to bring over two more F113's and stack them amd see what happens! I have read of other Fathom owners stacking their singles with good results.

Power Requirnments? I think I need to run some more circuts. How many amps do these draw each. I have 2) f133, my vandersteen 5a's, 3 quicksilver 120w tube amps plus some other stuff on one 20Amp circut. Has not tripped any breakers but I am starting to wonder.

Power Requirnments? I think I need to run some more circuts. How many amps do these draw each. I have 2) f133, my vandersteen 5a's, 3 quicksilver 120w tube amps plus some other stuff on one 20Amp circut. Has not tripped any breakers but I am starting to wonder.

I'm running a Mark Levinson 335 along with a B&K Reference 7250 on the same dedicated 20amp circuit as the two Fathoms and have never had a problem.It's the peak power draw that will cause failures. It's always safer to distribute the load evenly. Not too expensive to add another line usually.

That's to cover themselves when someone uses anything other than what is supplied and a problem occurs.I had to use my aftermarket BMI Whale elite PC's in order to place both subs properly in my room into the dedicated circuits! I was short by 2 feet.:rolleyes:

No problems with either PC since day one.

Did it. It works. Thanks

I have another question: is it possible to zero (reset) the ARO completely without using the defeat button? I don't want to use aro and I dont want to see that red light on all the time.

I have another question: is it possible to zero (reset) the ARO completely without using the defeat button? I don't want to use aro and I dont want to see that red light on all the time.


I really don't think there is. I've tried. If you don't want to see the red light you have to just turn all the lights off. I even tried re-running ARO and then unplugging the power cord just as it started, but it didn't work. The ARO was still engaged.

I really don't think there is. I've tried. If you don't want to see the red light you have to just turn all the lights off. I even tried re-running ARO and then unplugging the power cord just as it started, but it didn't work. The ARO was still engaged.

That's very strange. Before I run Audyssey I deactivated the aro by the "defeat" botton, I am sure I did it, and then, after the calibration I turned off the system. Then On again and the defeat button was not lit any longer meaning the ARO was on... on it's own. Can't believe that we cannot reset the processor.

That's very strange. Before I run Audyssey I deactivated the aro by the "defeat" botton, I am sure I did it, and then, after the calibration I turned off the system. Then On again and the defeat button was not lit any longer meaning the ARO was on... on it's own. Can't believe that we cannot reset the processor.

Hmm, I'm currently running ARO. If I press the defeat button the red light comes on. If I turn the sub off and then back on, the red light is still on. The only way to really know if ARO is activated is to run REW and measure the response with defeat on vs off. If you get exactly the same response, you know ARO is not activated.

Hmm, I'm currently running ARO. If I press the defeat button the red light comes on. If I turn the sub off and then back on, the red light is still on. The only way to really know if ARO is activated is to run REW and measure the response with defeat on vs off. If you get exactly the same response, you know ARO is not activated.

...Well, I dont know what to think. I am pretty sure I pressed the defeat button before audyssey...
Thanks for your help xcjago.

mistery solved. Because one of my subs, the one that was AROed was plugged into a power conditioner, on power-on/off it was re-engaging the aro. I take that as side effect. Now the sub is plugged directly into the wall to avoid that.

By the way, I know now why you guys are carring on the dual Jl f113 cofiguration. While a single is fine in my room (L shaped 4000ft open to other space), dual is so much better in pressurizing the room, I never thought I would have crossed over 80hz my 4 (actually 5) full range speakers. Wonderful subs!

mistery solved. Because one of my subs, the one that was AROed was plugged into a power conditioner, on power-on/off it was re-engaging the aro. I take that as side effect. Now the sub is plugged directly into the wall to avoid that.

By the way, I know now why you guys are carring on the dual Jl f113 cofiguration. While a single is fine in my room (L shaped 4000ft open to other space), dual is so much better in pressurizing the room, I never thought I would have crossed over 80hz my 4 (actually 5) full range speakers. Wonderful subs!

I agree best subs I've heard!

Yea I have 2) 113 and I was listening to them last night they still amaze me so tight and so much boom, yet because they are so fast they don't overload the room and you can hear every detail of the show / music. Next bass treatments my room has a bass hump.

I agree best subs I've heard!

Yea I have 2) 113 and I was listening to them last night they still amaze me so tight and so much boom, yet because they are so fast they don't overload the room and you can hear every detail of the show / music. Next bass treatments my room has a bass hump.

... and so seamless. The transition is invisible to me.

... and so seamless. The transition is invisible to me.

Compared to the focal profile subs (which are the same price) and b&w subs I used to have they don't even come close to the fathoms performance.

My current 2 F113 are up front next to my 120 inch screen and Front speakers.

But when I had them on the side walls facing each other (actually staggered, they sounded the best/ more powerfull)

Unfortunately the room did not work well that way, so I was forced to move them up next to the Mac LS360's.

My current 2 F113 are up front next to my 120 inch screen and Front speakers.

But when I had them on the side walls facing each other (actually staggered, they sounded the best/ more powerfull)

Unfortunately the room did not work well that way, so I was forced to move them up next to the Mac LS360's.

Side wall toward the center or toward the corners? I am asking because of my room configuration I thought doing just that, facing each other.

What are other people finding there Elf trim settings to be, to sound the best for their room.

I have mine back down from 0
20x20 room with 2 F113's

What are other people finding there Elf trim settings to be, to sound the best for their room.

I have mine back down from 0
20x20 room with 2 F113's

I have mine set at zero also after experimenting with the trim level. I'm in a 20x15 room with dual Fathom 113's.

I have mine set at zero also after experimenting with the trim level. I'm in a 20x15 room with dual Fathom 113's.

Sharp1080 - We almost have the same size room. I was wondering what was the biggest improvement for you when adding the second F113?

Sharp1080 - We almost have the same size room. I was wondering what was the biggest improvement for you when adding the second F113?

I have to add a second as well when my funds will allow.

Sharp1080 - We almost have the same size room. I was wondering what was the biggest improvement for you when adding the second F113?

Get it already, Tony. That way, I can my 2nd one too.;)

Jose.

Get it already, Tony. That way, I can my 2nd one too.;)

Jose.

I'm waiting :)

How do you like yours so far?

"Side wall toward the center or toward the corners? I am asking because of my room configuration I thought doing just that, facing each other.[/QUOTE]


Torwards the center, almost facing each other, but staggared ,so they dont, at mid- room.
It sounded the best in my room for HT, but I had to go for a more traditional set up, which sounds great, but not as involving.

Sharp1080 - We almost have the same size room. I was wondering what was the biggest improvement for you when adding the second F113?

Tony,

Biggest improvement was evening out the response in the room, It took what was good already and just took the room to the next level in regards to being able to reproduce bass that I never heard before especially when I owned a REL Stentor III.That was my reference before the JL's! One of the first recordings I played was the organ recording Mussorgsky pictures at an exibition performed by Jean Guillou.That has been one of my tests for bass in music, Non synthesized.

I'm waiting :)

How do you like yours so far?

I'm loving it. Believe me, I'd take it to bed if I could:D.
Best purchase I've made in a long time.

I'm loving it. Believe me, I'd take it to bed if I could:D.
Best purchase I've made in a long time.

Can we quote you in an ad? No photo required. :D

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Can we quote you in an ad? No photo required. :D

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Hey! I showed him the way of JL.. what about me? :) j/k!

Tony,

Biggest improvement was evening out the response in the room, It took what was good already and just took the room to the next level in regards to being able to reproduce bass that I never heard before especially when I owned a REL Stentor III.That was my reference before the JL's! One of the first recordings I played was the organ recording Mussorgsky pictures at an exibition performed by Jean Guillou.That has been one of my tests for bass in music, Non synthesized.

I am wondering if there would be any improvement adding a THIRD f113 in my 4500cft room...

I agree with your statement in regard to Rel (which I still have). While the Rel in my system had a wonderful pitch definition, I never thought that it could have been bettered and I was wrong.

I am wondering if there would be any improvement adding a THIRD f113 in my 4500cft room...

I agree with your statement in regard to Rel (which I still have). While the Rel in my system had a wonderful pitch definition, I never thought that it could have been bettered and I was wrong.

Not as big an improvement as going from one to two, but still an improvement. Up to four units you get pretty discernible improvements... Beyond four, it's just for fun and headroom. :-)

Can we quote you in an ad? No photo required. :D

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Sure, as long as Tony and I aren't in the same bed:D.
I can even send a photo......:p

On a serious note Mr Smith, if I were to add another sub, I would have to put both subs between my main speakers and there would only be about 3ft of space between them. Is that ok?

Jose.

Not as big an improvement as going from one to two, but still an improvement. Up to four units you get pretty discernible improvements... Beyond four, it's just for fun and headroom. :-)

Talking to my dealer this week about possibly adding two more subs which will allow me to stack my F113's. Not a true Gotham but close! ;)

Sure, as long as Tony and I aren't in the same bed:D.
I can even send a photo......:p

On a serious note Mr Smith, if I were to add another sub, I would have to put both subs between my main speakers and there would only be about 3ft of space between them. Is that ok?

Jose.

Sure, that's no problem... we did a setup that pretty much went across the whole front of the room, five across with two more elevated above the bottom row. It was silly, but in a spectacularly good way. :D

And, by all means send pictures!

Best regards, and thank you for choosing JL Audio products.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Not as big an improvement as going from one to two, but still an improvement. Up to four units you get pretty discernible improvements... Beyond four, it's just for fun and headroom. :-)

Most audio room calibrators that I have talked to say that minimum of two subs is needed.

Sure, that's no problem... we did a setup that pretty much went across the whole front of the room, five across with two more elevated above the bottom row. It was silly, but in a spectacularly good way. :D

And, by all means send pictures!

Best regards, and thank you for choosing JL Audio products.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Here are some pics. Excuse the lousy camera.
Just don't tell the guys at the F112 thread that I'm hangin' out here.

Here are some pics. Excuse the lousy camera.
Just don't tell the guys at the F112 thread that I'm hangin' out here.

Not to worry I have two F112's also the F113 thread seems to be more active at times.

If you own a JL product, your one of the family, nothin to worry about... !!!!!

I just have to say the pair of fathoms 112 are one of the best investment i' ve done for my HT room.:) the guys at JL audio hit a winner with these beauties.

Just don't tell the guys at the F112 thread that I'm hangin' out here.

I just have to say the pair of fathoms 112 are one of the best investment i' ve done for my HT room.:) the guys at JL audio hit a winner with these beauties.

HEY! WHY ARE YOU GUYS HANGIN" OUT HERE??? WE HAVE OUR OWN THREAD FOR F112!

:D:D:D:D:D

Just kidding, I hang out here sometimes too.

Craig

HEY! WHY ARE YOU GUYS HANGIN" OUT HERE??? WE HAVE OUR OWN THREAD FOR F112!

:D:D:D:D:D

Just kidding, I hang out here sometimes too.

Craig

Wow, we should form a club for dual f112 owners... that's what I'm running, too. We need a clever name. :cool:

Thanks for the pix, Jose... great setup. I bet it sounds great.

Does anyone have any high-quality pics of the Satin Black and the High-Gloss Black finishes?

Does anyone have any high-quality pics of the Satin Black and the High-Gloss Black finishes?

http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=39

Thanks.

How long is the cable for the calibration mic?

Thanks.

How long is the cable for the calibration mic?

It's 20 ft. long. (6 meters)

Here are some pics. Excuse the lousy camera.
Just don't tell the guys at the F112 thread that I'm hangin' out here.

Nice pics Jose.. What's that stand under the sub?

Does the room calibration on the f113 fix out any room nulls or uneven response from the room? I heard that small rooms are bad for bass response and since I have a small room, I would like to know how the room calibration helps or deals with the room response.

Nice pics Jose.. What's that stand under the sub?

Thanks Tony. They're the SP-003 by Audio Points. Have them on top of a granite slab. Work great. Been using them for years under my speakers too. What can I say, I'm a tweaker..

Here's a link:
http://www.starsoundtechnologies.com/SinglePlatforms.HTML

I'm sure this has been asked but when I did a search I did not find an answer so sorry if it has been answered.

How similar is the 13w7 compared to the fathom?
I guess what I'm comparing is...
-1 jl 13w7
-Rockford Fosgate t1001.bd amplifer wired in series (about 800 watts @ 3 ohms)
-1.5 cu. ft. sealed box. 1.5" MDF front baffle, 3/4" MDF top/bottom/sides, 1" polycarb back

Yes there is still more that would be needed to make even a decent answer but I'm hoping someone has some idea on how similar these are.

Does the room calibration on the f113 fix out any room nulls or uneven response from the room? I heard that small rooms are bad for bass response and since I have a small room, I would like to know how the room calibration helps or deals with the room response.
The ARO in the Fathom line is a single band, single point EQ solution with no time correction. It measures the response at one point in the room and then selects the largest peak in that response measurement and applies a "variable" filter to it. The variable part is that it can vary the amount of the reduction *and* it can vary the bandwidth over which the reduction is applied. IOW, if you have a broad peak over a large frequency band at your primary listening position, and this is your primary peak, it will apply a broad filter inversely correcting that peak. However, it can only do this for *one* peak at one listening position. If you have multiple peaks at multiple frequencies, it will select the "largest" and apply the filter to that one.

Reducing the level of the largest, broadest peak will also reduce the level of "ringing" or "overhang" of that peak. However, ARO has no "time-based" correction built into it, and it does nothing to improve the ringing of other frequencies.

In many rooms, EQ'ing the single biggest peak is a significant improvement in the sound. It will remove much of the boominess and the impression of "one-note" bass, where all the bass notes sound the same. However, it is not as good as EQ'ing multiple peaks, at multiple listening positions, and adding time-based correction at multiple frequencies. For this kind of correction one needs a multi-point EQ with FIR filters, such as Audyssey MultEQ.

The ARO in the Fathom line is a single band, single point EQ solution with no time correction. It measures the response at one point in the room and then selects the largest peak in that response measurement and applies a "variable" filter to it. The variable part is that it can vary the amount of the reduction *and* it can vary the bandwidth over which the reduction is applied. IOW, if you have a broad peak over a large frequency band at your primary listening position, and this is your primary peak, it will apply a broad filter inversely correcting that peak. However, it can only do this for *one* peak at one listening position. If you have multiple peaks at multiple frequencies, it will select the "largest" and apply the filter to that one.

Reducing the level of the largest, broadest peak will also reduce the level of "ringing" or "overhang" of that peak. However, ARO has no "time-based" correction built into it, and it does nothing to improve the ringing of other frequencies.

In many rooms, EQ'ing the single biggest peak is a significant improvement in the sound. It will remove much of the boominess and the impression of "one-note" bass, where all the bass notes sound the same. However, it is not as good as EQ'ing multiple peaks, at multiple listening positions, and adding time-based correction at multiple frequencies. For this kind of correction one needs a multi-point EQ with FIR filters, such as Audyssey MultEQ. Thank you. :)

However, some of your explaination wizzed over my head. What is time-based correction?

By the way, the PB13-Ultra doesn't come with any built-in EQ'ing like the f113, correct?

I'm sure this has been asked but when I did a search I did not find an answer so sorry if it has been answered.

How similar is the 13w7 compared to the fathom?
I guess what I'm comparing is...
-1 jl 13w7
-Rockford Fosgate t1001.bd amplifer wired in series (about 800 watts @ 3 ohms)
-1.5 cu. ft. sealed box. 1.5" MDF front baffle, 3/4" MDF top/bottom/sides, 1" polycarb back

Yes there is still more that would be needed to make even a decent answer but I'm hoping someone has some idea on how similar these are.

The Fathom's 13.5-inch driver has a larger, more powerful motor than the car audio 13W7 driver. It's better optimized for a smaller enclosure than the car version.

The f113 also has 2500W of RMS power, not 800 and then there is the extensive processing package and the house curve and limiting circuitry, and the balanced inputs, the optically isolated unbalanced inputs, the microphone, the grille, the FCC and UL/CSA approval, the cabinet fit and finish, etc. etc. Oh, I almost forgot the gloves. ;)

What is time-based correction?
There are two effects of resonances in a room. The first is frequency imbalance. A resonance that causes a "peak" causes certain frequencies to be louder than others. The reflected sound is added to the original sound and the combined sound is louder than it should be. A resonance that causes a "null" causes some frequencies to be quieter than other frequencies. When the reflected sound is combined out of phase with the original sound, it cancels the wave and decreases the level. A standard EQ like the ARO reduces the level of the errant "peak" frequency, which also reduces the level of the resonance. The final "combined" sound is in the proper balance with the rest of the range. (A "null" cannot be EQ'd because adding more energy to the original sound just adds more cancellation.)

The second effect of a resonance happens in the "time" domain. The resonance can cause the frequency to decay slower than it should. IOW, it stays in the room too long. This is referred to as "ringing". This will cause the bass to sound "slow" and sloppy. Time-based EQ can reduce the ringing by using Finite Impulse Response (FIR) filters, sort of like the same way that noise-canceling headphones work. Audyssey uses FIR filters to correct in the time domain as well as in the frequency domain:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793007

By the way, the PB13-Ultra doesn't come with any built-in EQ'ing like the f113, correct?
The SVS PB13-Ultra has a single band parametric EQ, similar to the ARO EQ. However, it does not have the measurement capability and auto-EQ that ARO has. Therefore, you would need to measure and set the SVS EQ manually. If you have no measurement capability, it's almost useless.

Craig

There are two effects of resonances in a room. The first is frequency imbalance. A resonance that causes a "peak" causes certain frequencies to be louder than others. The reflected sound is added to the original sound and the combined sound is louder than it should be. A resonance that causes a "null" causes some frequencies to be quieter than other frequencies. When the reflected sound is combined out of phase with the original sound, it cancels the wave and decreases the level. A standard EQ like the ARO reduces the level of the errant "peak" frequency, which also reduces the level of the resonance. The final "combined" sound is in the proper balance with the rest of the range. (A "null" cannot be EQ'd because adding more energy to the original sound just adds more cancellation.)

The second effect of a resonance happens in the "time" domain. The resonance can cause the frequency to decay slower than it should. IOW, it stays in the room too long. This is referred to as "ringing". This will cause the bass to sound "slow" and sloppy. Time-based EQ can reduce the ringing by using Finite Impulse Response (FIR) filters, sort of like the same way that noise-canceling headphones work. Audyssey uses FIR filters to correct in the time domain as well as in the frequency domain:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793007


The SVS PB13-Ultra has a single band parametric EQ, similar to the ARO EQ. However, it does not have the measurement capability and auto-EQ that ARO has. Therefore, you would need to measure and set the SVS EQ manually. If you have no measurement capability, it's almost useless.

Craig Thanks again! :)

I think I'm finally starting to get it. :cool:

By the way, how effective is the ARO at ironing out the largest peak? Can you tell a difference in sound quality before and after you perform the ARO?

One more thing! When you say the "largest peak," do you mean the ARO does a frequency wave from say 80Hz down to 20Hz and then decides where the largest peak is?

One more thing! When you say the "largest peak," do you mean the ARO does a frequency wave from say 80Hz down to 20Hz and then decides where the largest peak is?
Yes, exactly. It performs a sweep from 20 to ~120 Hz, (Manville, exactly what frequencies are included in the sweep?) It then examines the SPL at each frequency, finds the largest peak and applies an inverse filter to it. If your room only has one peak, ARO will work quite well to tame it. However, most rooms have multiple peaks and nulls, as weel as some time decay issues. ARO does nothing for those additional problems.

Craig

Why do people state that the PB13-Ultra has *much* more output than the f113 down low and that it rolls off at around 20Hz? According to the following table, the f113 outputs 91.5 dB at 12.5Hz while the PB13-Ultra (in 15Hz mode) outputs 93.1 dB at 12.5Hz. Isn't that fairly close? However, I guess they are right since the PB13-Ultra does have quite a bit more output from 25Hz to 16Hz. But down really low, the difference between the two is not much.

http://personal.inet.fi/private/zipman/shootout5/cea-2010_rms_2m_round_4_and_5_20-80.png

I have a question, for some time I always assumed that the auto turn off sensing mechanism didn't properly work as a few other people on this thread.
It was never a big issue for me, I don't mind getting up and switching it off.

Of lately I've been hearing some clicks when theres no bass, but the green lights remain on.
My old subs lights would completely turn off! Or may I never thought about if the lights where ever actually off!?! When they where at the back, out of site!!!!!

:confused:

Djoel

The Fathom's 13.5-inch driver has a larger, more powerful motor than the car audio 13W7 driver. It's better optimized for a smaller enclosure than the car version.

The f113 also has 2500W of RMS power, not 800 and then there is the extensive processing package and the house curve and limiting circuitry, and the balanced inputs, the optically isolated unbalanced inputs, the microphone, the grille, the FCC and UL/CSA approval, the cabinet fit and finish, etc. etc. Oh, I almost forgot the gloves. ;)

Thanks Manville.... appreciate some of the breakdown of the extras that have gone into the finished product... I have also contemplated building my own JL sub.... like a Dual 12W7 just to play around with.

After purchasing my F112, it is what I measure all other subs with, my own builds or other commercial products.... they need to have the power SQ and upper bass qualities the F112 naturally just puts out.

Oh and by the way - I really bought the F112 for the Gloves, but the sub is really nice as well...

Guys,

I have narrowed down to a few subs that i want to buy to replace the hsu ho w/ turbo :).


I have originally considered the svs ultra 13, but don't want such a large footprint anymore. So now I have 2 subs in mind - F112 & F113 due to their performance and look.

Is there a big difference in sound quality/spl with the F112 & F113? I have listened to the f113 for a short period and was impressed. I have read both threads and still not sure what to conclude.

I have been quoated the price of a F112 from a dealer (not sure what the F113 cost). If somebody don't mind sharing the price of what they paid so I will have a clue when negotiating (pme me). I am in socal if it matters.

Would either of these subs be fine running on a 15 amp circuit (share with lcd, avr, bd player, cable box going thru an APC 15 power surge)?

The setup will be in the living room that is 2500 cubic ft with 50/50 movie and music usage.

Thanks in advance.

tony

tractng,
The cost difference is about 1k between them but go look and see what each can be had for. Sound wise they are pretty close, they say if you are using it for HT get the 113 for music get the 112, when I listened to both they where almost identical to me but I listened in different rooms so it was hard. The f113 has alot more output which is nice especally if you ever move to a bigger HT. For your room size eithor should be fine.

That is a lot of equipment to put on one 15 amp circuit. You should try and put the dual subs on their own (15 amp would be fine) circuit if possible.

I had pairs of the both the F112's and F113's. If I were getting another pair of Fathoms, I would get the F112's. The performance delta isn't sufficient to justify the higher price and larger size ... IMHO.



Guys,

I have narrowed down to a few subs that i want to buy to replace the hsu ho w/ turbo :).


I have originally considered the svs ultra 13, but don't want such a large footprint anymore. So now I have 2 subs in mind - F112 & F113 due to their performance and look.

Is there a big difference in sound quality/spl with the F112 & F113? I have listened to the f113 for a short period and was impressed. I have read both threads and still not sure what to conclude.

I have been quoated the price of a F112 from a dealer (not sure what the F113 cost). If somebody don't mind sharing the price of what they paid so I will have a clue when negotiating (pme me). I am in socal if it matters.

Would either of these subs be fine running on a 15 amp circuit (share with lcd, avr, bd player, cable box going thru an APC 15 power surge)?

The setup will be in the living room that is 2500 cubic ft with 50/50 movie and music usage.

Thanks in advance.

tony

That is a lot of equipment to put on one 15 amp circuit. You should try and put the dual subs on their own (15 amp would be fine) circuit if possible.

I had pairs of the both the F112's and F113's. If I were getting another pair of Fathoms, I would get the F112's. The performance delta isn't sufficient to justify the higher price and larger size ... IMHO.


It will be a single setup (no duals). So the circuit will be okay with all the devices?


tony

It will be a single setup (no duals). So the circuit will be okay with all the devices?


tony

Sorry, I misread your post:o.

Yes, with one sub you should be OK. You'll know for sure if the if the breaker doesn't trip with everything going full tilt;).

Sorry, I misread your post:o.

Yes, with one sub you should be OK. You'll know for sure if the if the breaker doesn't trip with everything going full tilt;).

I'm running dual f112's plus the rest of my audio system and my 52-inch LCD off a single 15A circuit... it has never tripped a breaker or caused any problems. Remember that a 15A circuit breaker (and wiring) are designed to pass up to twice that current for short bursts.

So can someone please tell me if the lights completely goes off when the sub is not receiving a signal?

Thanks

Djoel

So can someone please tell me if the lights completely goes off when the sub is not receiving a signal?

Thanks

Djoel

In Signal Sensing mode, all front panel lights will shut off when the unit goes to sleep... but, this won't happen for 25-30 minutes after the signal drops below the trigger threshold.

When sufficient signal is sensed again, the unit will wake up and lights will come on (if the front panel light switch is not on "off")

I'm running dual f112's plus the rest of my audio system and my 52-inch LCD off a single 15A circuit... it has never tripped a breaker or caused any problems. Remember that a 15A circuit breaker (and wiring) are designed to pass up to twice that current for short bursts.

Power center at the Smith house?:p

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/rmk_01/ManvilesPower.jpg

Power center at the Smith house?:p

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/rmk_01/ManvilesPower.jpg


Call the fire department. LOL.


tony

In Signal Sensing mode, all front panel lights will shut off when the unit goes to sleep... but, this won't happen for 25-30 minutes after the signal drops below the trigger threshold.

When sufficient signal is sensed again, the unit will wake up and lights will come on (if the front panel light switch is not on "off")



Then it's not working properly, I've only notice the click-in", click-in" of lately it the only reason I asked. (new symptom)

I've gotten up in the morning to notice that the light had been on all night forgetting to manually turning the sub off.

djoel

Then it's not working properly, I've only notice the click-in", click-in" of lately it the only reason I asked. (new symptom)

I've gotten up in the morning to notice that the light had been on all night forgetting to manually turning the sub off.

djoel

Is the sub Power set to "Auto"?

Is the sub Power set to "Auto"?


Yup!

I've owned this sub for over two years now. It's alway been non functional, I just notice the clicks which it never did this before.:confused:

Thanks




Djoel

Power center at the Smith house?:p

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/rmk_01/ManvilesPower.jpg

That setup didn't come with "The Clapper"....????

Love it...

Power center at the Smith house?:p

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/rmk_01/ManvilesPower.jpg

Anyone see the Chevy Chase movie Christmas Vacation.

Power center at the Smith house?:p

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/rmk_01/ManvilesPower.jpg

You got a problem with that? :p:p:p

Obviously they're not all on one outlet. I'm not that reckless. One f112 is on one, the other f112 is on another one which also powers my Panamax surge protector which everything else connects to.

You see, my idiot builder (despite my specific request for two 15A circuits on the same wall of my family room) decided to say "screw it" and only put one in for the entire room!

Now, that being said in a lame attempt to save face, I'm sure I could trip a breaker if I decided to get really stupid with the level or the source material (sine waves), but in real world practice I've been able to play it at neighborhood nuisance levels with music or movies without a problem.

Your mileage may vary.

Then it's not working properly, I've only notice the click-in", click-in" of lately it the only reason I asked. (new symptom)

I've gotten up in the morning to notice that the light had been on all night forgetting to manually turning the sub off.

djoel

We will be happy to service it for you. Just arrange it with your dealer.

The f 212 forums are quiet. I have my 2 F212's on a single dedicated 15 A circuit. Will I get better performance from adding a second circuit? The performace is awsome as is!

We will be happy to service it for you. Just arrange it with your dealer.



I'll give them a call, it's not a huge deal...but it would be nice to see it do what it do;)

Djoel

We will be happy to service it for you. Just arrange it with your dealer.


One of mine F113 does the same thing. (Stays on)
Unfortunately, my dealer did not make much $'s, so he has no interest in helping or exchanging it, from day 1.

He told me, people leave them on, all the time, its normal.
I would have liked, to have the option, at least.
Since, it was bought new.

I have been too busy to box and send it to JL directly.
Great company by the way!

Selling dealer lost my/friends business, to a new dealer, but farther away.

One of mine F113 does the same thing. (Stays on)
Unfortunately, my dealer did not make much $'s, so he has no interest in helping or exchanging it, from day 1.

He told me, people leave them on, all the time, its normal.
I would have liked, to have the option, at least.
Since, it was bought new.

I have been too busy to box and send it to JL directly.
Great company by the way!

Selling dealer lost my/friends business, to a new dealer, but farther away.

That's a bit harsh, he still should look after you regardless how much you spent.

Yeah like I'm going to pack this beast up:rolleyes: Too bad there isn't a firmware to fix this issue.


Djoel

The f 212 forums are quiet. I have my 2 F212's on a single dedicated 15 A circuit. Will I get better performance from adding a second circuit? The performace is awsome as is!

Your 15 A circuit should be ok as long as you aren't dimming the lights or blowing a fuse. In regard to better performance, get a couple of SVS PB 13 Ultras for at half the cost of one F113 and be amazed at the output and SQ. Don't take my word for it, read all the forums.

Good luck and happy listening!

Yeah like I'm going to pack this beast up:rolleyes: Too bad there isn't a firmware to fix this issue.


Djoel
I agree:)

Your 15 A circuit should be ok as long as you aren't dimming the lights or blowing a fuse. In regard to better performance, get a couple of SVS PB 13 Ultras for at half the cost of one F113 and be amazed at the output and SQ. Don't take my word for it, read all the forums.

Good luck and happy listening!

What a POSitive comment:rolleyes:

Your 15 A circuit should be ok as long as you aren't dimming the lights or blowing a fuse. In regard to better performance, get a couple of SVS PB 13 Ultras for at half the cost of one F113 and be amazed at the output and SQ. Don't take my word for it, read all the forums.

Good luck and happy listening!

With the fathoms he will have happy listening. Please this a jl audio thread for jl audio owners keep to your own thread.

Your 15 A circuit should be ok as long as you aren't dimming the lights or blowing a fuse. In regard to better performance, get a couple of SVS PB 13 Ultras for at half the cost of one F113 and be amazed at the output and SQ. Don't take my word for it, read all the forums.

Good luck and happy listening!

Looks like you're lost...
Here, let me help.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=889659

Yeah like I'm going to pack this beast up:rolleyes: Too bad there isn't a firmware to fix this issue.


Djoel

We will be happy to take care of it if you can pack it up and send it to us, but I'm afraid it simply isn't a field-serviceable issue.

The wake-up circuit is purely analog, so it can't be addressed with software. :(

If anyone knows a place to get a good deal on the F113, I'd appreciate if they could PM me. AVS does't sell them. Thanks.

We will be happy to take care of it if you can pack it up and send it to us, but I'm afraid it simply isn't a field-serviceable issue.

The wake-up circuit is purely analog, so it can't be addressed with software. :(


Thanks, I wonder if FedeX is able to handle this responsibility?

Hmm it's something I have to really sit down and think about:(

DJoel

If anyone knows a place to get a good deal on the F113, I'd appreciate if they could PM me. AVS does't sell them. Thanks.

Check at Audigon, a lot of folks are dumping their Fathom's. Usually some good prices as well :)

Check at Audigon, a lot of folks are dumping their Fathom's. Usually some good prices as well :)

Yes... two used f113's and no f112's... it's a veritable dumping frenzy. :rolleyes:

Thanks, I wonder if FedeX is able to handle this responsibility?

Hmm it's something I have to really sit down and think about:(

DJoel

Call Amy Turner at JL Audio on Monday... explain your situation and we will make some recommendations as to the best way to ship it. 1-888-JLAUDIO.

Yes... two used f113's and no f112's... it's a veritable dumping frenzy. :rolleyes:

Usually a lot more than the two you so graciously researched for us! My advice is bookmark that site, there are always a few on any given week. ;)

Check at Audigon, a lot of folks are dumping their Fathom's. Usually some good prices as well :)

What's that supposed to mean? "dumping" their Fathoms...

What's that supposed to mean? "dumping" their Fathoms...

It's actually the other way around.

JL dumped him.

I'm rarely in the subwoofer forum, and heck even I know this. :eek:

It's actually the other way around.

JL dumped him.

I'm rarely in the subwoofer forum, and heck even I know this. :eek:

As I suspected.. He's an SVS fanboy... :)

I'd suggest a truck freight company since they are used to handling larger packages vs. say UPS or FedEx.

BAX Global is good but they will only insure for $500 since they claim a "speaker" [ class 100 ] hazardous material becuase it has a magnet.

Another is Yellow Freight.

Call Amy Turner at JL Audio on Monday... explain your situation and we will make some recommendations as to the best way to ship it. 1-888-JLAUDIO.


Thank you M... I will.... It would be very strange living without F113 for some time...

DJoel

Thanks, I wonder if FedeX is able to handle this responsibility?

Hmm it's something I have to really sit down and think about:(

DJoel

When I sent mine, we use UPS and I think they sent it back to me via fed ex overnight. JL customer service was awesome.

I would NOT use UPS or FEDEX. Had mine shipped via Yellow Freight to NYC, and while shipping cost as much as the sub itself ;-), I received it with no issues.

Check at Audigon, a lot of folks are dumping their Fathom's. Usually some good prices as well :)

Hey if you can't afford it don't bag it you really do sound like an idiot. Also if you are an ex employee of jl audio don't blame them for dumping you because your maturity level certainly shows.

Hey if you can't afford it don't bag it you really do sound like an idiot. Also if you are an ex employee of jl audio don't blame them for dumping you because your maturity level certainly shows.

Wow! What a lot of sensitive young lads here....you'ze spend yer money, and you'ze live with your choices I guesss :o

Cheers and enjoy!

Check at Audigon, a lot of folks are dumping their Fathom's. Usually some good prices as well :)



I never understood this mentality:confused: to go to another thread and just bash away?

Pretty pathetic if you ask me, it's Valentine weekend where's the love;)

Djoel

I would NOT use UPS or FEDEX. Had mine shipped via Yellow Freight to NYC, and while shipping cost as much as the sub itself ;-), I received it with no issues.



I received my f113 via yellow, I trust them...I'll see what's the damage to FL.

Thanks

Djoel

When I sent mine, we use UPS and I think they sent it back to me via fed ex overnight. JL customer service was awesome.



Thanks, I have an account with FedEx and I believe they have a freight department too...


Man I just receive a Kanye West's 808 & Heartbreak on vinyl for V day gift and the JL loves those 808 lows:eek:

DJoel

Going to order th F113 soon :).


Tony

Price other than MRSP is a no no on this site...:)

But congrats in advance..

Djoel

Thanks, I wonder if FedeX is able to handle this responsibility?

Hmm it's something I have to really sit down and think about:(

DJoel


I hear you. It is such a large item to ship. Are you paying shipping out of your pocket?


Btw, does anybody know what is the power consumption on standby (auto).

Tony

Thanks, I have an account with FedEx and I believe they have a freight department too...


Man I just receive a Kanye West's 808 & Heartbreak on vinyl for V day gift and the JL loves those 808 lows:eek:

DJoel

You still kept the packaging Djoel?

I hear you. It is such a large item to ship. Are you paying shipping out of your pocket?
Tony

WARRANTY TERMS
(Effective August 12, 2005)
These terms supercede all prior published warranty terms

JL Audio home audio products are warrantied against defects in materials and workmanship for a period of Three (3) Years from the original date of purchase.
All warranty service requires original sales receipt documentation.

Please hold on to your sales receipt!

Note: Products purchased from unauthorized dealers are not covered under warranty. Ask your dealer for details on warranty limitations.

IF YOU NEED SERVICE ON YOUR JL AUDIO PRODUCT:

All warranty returns should be sent to JL AUDIO freight prepaid through an authorized JL AUDIO dealer and must be accompanied by proof of purchase (a copy of the original sales receipt.) Direct returns from consumers or non-authorized dealers will be refused unless specifically authorized by JL AUDIO with a valid return authorization number. Warranty expiration on products returned without proof of purchase will be determined from the manufacturing date code. Coverage may be invalidated as this date is previous to purchase date. Return only defective components. Non-defective items received will be returned freight-collect. Customer is responsible for shipping charges and insurance in sending the product to JL AUDIO. Freight damage on returns is not covered under warranty. Always include proof of purchase (sales receipt).

Wow! What a lot of sensitive young lads here....you'ze spend yer money, and you'ze live with your choices I guesss :o

Cheers and enjoy!

Look didn't Manville state that you lost your ability to sell JL products? You are pathetic! :)

You still kept the packaging Djoel?


But of course! It's in my friends apartment along with all my other gear boxes, he has ton of closet space and he's single.

Djoel

Look didn't Manville state that you lost your ability to sell JL products? You are pathetic! :)

he's been polluting this thread for like 2 years now

i can't believe he's still at it

I hear you. It is such a large item to ship. Are you paying shipping out of your pocket?

It's common practice, when it comes to returning component under warranty I don't really mind, when the company returns the favor.




Djoel

Look didn't Manville state that you lost your ability to sell JL products? You are pathetic! :)

Ah... So he used to sell JL Audio products but Manville gave him the boot? Good on you Manville by the sounds of him he doesn't seem very bright.After reading what you guys wrote I deleted my last post as I did not realise he actually sold JL prducts.

But of course! It's in my friends apartment along with all my other gear boxes, he has ton of closet space and he's single.

Djoel

Thats good. Have to say JL audio have the best packaging I've seen.

I hear you. It is such a large item to ship. Are you paying shipping out of your pocket?


Btw, does anybody know what is the power consumption on standby (auto).

Tony

It's very low (about 7W, if I recall correctly.)

Ah... So he used to sell JL Audio products but Manville gave him the boot? Good on you Manville by the sounds of him he doesn't seem very bright.After reading what you guys wrote I deleted my last post as I did not realise he actually sold JL prducts.

Yeah it kinda reminds me of like in the early days if some chick gave you a good shot of butt and she dumped you later. You keep thinking of how the good ole days were. lmao:D

It's very low (about 7W, if I recall correctly.)



It's in one of the review I read sometime ago, and I also thought it was in the single digit as well..I wanted to say 7w or 9w but I'm sure you are correct.

Djoel

From the manual:

“Auto: The Fathom will power up its internal amplifier when an audio signal is present at any of its inputs and will power down the internal amplifier if no signal has been detected at its inputs for thirty (30) minutes. When dormant, the Fathom will draw a very small amount of current (< 5 watts) to power its signal-sensing circuitry."

It's in one of the review I read sometime ago, and I also thought it was in the single digit as well..I wanted to say 7w or 9w but I'm sure you are correct.

Djoel

Since we are at the power comsumption topic, I have a few more questions :).


I currently run a 16 (about 12 amp rated) gauge extended cord from the sub spot to the power conditioner/surge proector. The cord is nicely tug inside the molding, etc.

Would the extended cord be enough for that f113 (it will be the only source plug into this cord).

Also, for power cord that comes from JL, is it a 3 prone? How long is the cord?


Tony

I'm in the process of doing somes upgrades to my system and it's time for the sub. I really like what I've heard from auditioning the F113 and thinks it's what I want. Should I be concerned with looking at used on Audiogon seeing that the warranty in not transferrable?

Thanks

I'm in the process of doing somes upgrades to my system and it's time for the sub. I really like what I've heard from auditioning the F113 and thinks it's what I want. Should I be concerned with looking at used on Audiogon seeing that the warranty in not transferrable?

Thanks


For a few more bills, get new. You are in florida?

Tony

For a few more bills, get new. You are in florida?

Tony

Yes, Orlando area. It's more then a few bills from what I'm seeing.

Since we are at the power comsumption topic, I have a few more questions :).


I currently run a 16 (about 12 amp rated) gauge extended cord from the sub spot to the power conditioner/surge proector. The cord is nicely tug inside the molding, etc.

Would the extended cord be enough for that f113 (it will be the only source plug into this cord).

Also, for power cord that comes from JL, is it a 3 prone? How long is the cord?


Tony

Our Fathom power cord is a 3-prong, 14 AWG and it's 6 ft. long.

I cannot really recommend that you use less than that... it's part of our UL certification. But, in your house, you're free to try anything and see if it works. ;)

I'm in the process of doing somes upgrades to my system and it's time for the sub. I really like what I've heard from auditioning the F113 and thinks it's what I want. Should I be concerned with looking at used on Audiogon seeing that the warranty in not transferrable?

Thanks

You just have to weigh the savings vs. the risk of a failure requiring service. It's really your call.

Our Fathom power cord is a 3-prong, 14 AWG and it's 6 ft. long.

I cannot really recommend that you use less than that... it's part of our UL certification. But, in your house, you're free to try anything and see if it works. ;)

Thanks for the answer :).

tony

You just have to weigh the savings vs. the risk of a failure requiring service. It's really your call.

Thanks... I think I'll go with a dealer and for go the risk...

I have the gain on my JL at 12 o'clock. After I run Audyssey the trim/level adjustment reads -11, at the very low end of the sub level range on my pre/pro. All speakers and sub are level matched to read 75 db. Should I lower the gain on the sub itself and bring the level control on the pre/pro to the middle of the range, say 0? Any pros and cons going with either setup? Thanks.

I am looking at a few subwoofer's and wondering if anyone has any comments/experience (positive or negative)
1) Russound SUB 105
2) Proficient PFS12 or 88
3) Pinnacle CS88
thanks in advance

I have the gain on my JL at 12 o'clock. After I run Audyssey the trim/level adjustment reads -11, at the very low end of the sub level range on my pre/pro. All speakers and sub are level matched to read 75 db. Should I lower the gain on the sub itself and bring the level control on the pre/pro to the middle of the range, say 0? Any pros and cons going with either setup? Thanks.

Since we are at this topic and from what I read, do we calibrate the sub using its feature first then go to the AVR to run audyssey?

Thanks,
Tony

I have the gain on my JL at 12 o'clock. After I run Audyssey the trim/level adjustment reads -11, at the very low end of the sub level range on my pre/pro. All speakers and sub are level matched to read 75 db. Should I lower the gain on the sub itself and bring the level control on the pre/pro to the middle of the range, say 0? Any pros and cons going with either setup? Thanks.

Yes.
You will get the best performance (with any amplifier) when you run the signal(s) out of the preamp as hot as possible (before overloading of course).

glennQ

I have a slightly off-topic question. Is JL Audio making the rest of the home theater speakers such as the mains, center, and surrounds? Considering how great their home theater subwoofers turned out to be, I would love to see the rest of the line up. :)

Do I calibrate the sub using its feature first then go to the AVR to run audyssey?

I don't have the sub yet. Just planning ahead :).

Thanks,
Tony

Yes.
You will get the best performance (with any amplifier) when you run the signal(s) out of the preamp as hot as possible (before overloading of course).

glennQ

You see this is where I get confused. According to subwoofer setup guide at Av123 and ( at SVSound also, I believe) they recommend they you set the level on the preamp -5 ( -10 to +10 being the range). This they say, would let the sub work with clean unclipped singal from the pre-pro. So who is right?

BTW, if I lower the gain on the sub, does this mean I have to re-run Audyssey again or could I just use SPL meter to adjust the sub level?

Do I calibrate the sub using its feature first then go to the AVR to run audyssey?

I don't have the sub yet. Just planning ahead :).

Thanks,
Tony

Yes, run ARO first.

You see this is where I get confused. According to subwoofer setup guide at Av123 and ( at SVSound also, I believe) they recommend they you set the level on the preamp -5 ( -10 to +10 being the range). This they say, would let the sub work with clean unclipped singal from the pre-pro. So who is right?

BTW, if I lower the gain on the sub, does this mean I have to re-run Audyssey again or could I just use SPL meter to adjust the sub level?

Let me clarify... You want to use the hottest undistorted, full waveform (unclipped) signal you can get into an amplifier without overloading the input(s).

glennQ

Let me clarify... You want to use the hottest undistorted, full waveform (unclipped) signal you can get into an amplifier without overloading the input(s).

glennQ

Can you state that in plain English?

Do I calibrate the sub using its feature first then go to the AVR to run audyssey?

I don't have the sub yet. Just planning ahead :).

Thanks,
Tony

You also might want to read the Audyssey Setup Guide. See the link in my signature below.

Mark

You see this is where I get confused. According to subwoofer setup guide at Av123 and ( at SVSound also, I believe) they recommend they you set the level on the preamp -5 ( -10 to +10 being the range). This they say, would let the sub work with clean unclipped singal from the pre-pro. So who is right?

BTW, if I lower the gain on the sub, does this mean I have to re-run Audyssey again or could I just use SPL meter to adjust the sub level?
If you set the subwoofer level (at the sub) so that receiver/pre/pro outputs a signal between -5 and zero, you'll have accomplished this:
Let me clarify... You want to use the hottest undistorted, full waveform (unclipped) signal you can get into an amplifier without overloading the input(s).

glennQ
Each subwoofer amp will have a different level setting to accomplish the above. I usually start out at 1/3 volume on the sub and work up until the receiver/pre/pro is at -5 to zero. One sub I had needed to be set at ~2/3 of it's full scale. My Earthquake sub was at less than 1/4 of it's volume scale. My current JL subs are at 1/2 of their volume scale.

You want to avoid going above zero with the receiver/pre/pro output because you run the potential of overdriving the sub amp inputs and/or clipping the signal.

Yes, run ARO first.
If you want to run ARO at all, run it first. However, ARO is a single point, single band EQ. Audyssey is a multi-point, multi-band EQ. They may or, (more likely), may not compliment each other. In that case, skip ARO and just run Audyssey.

I have posted about this previously in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=736243&page=154
(Starting with post # 4615.)

Craig

JL as far as I know is only doing a sub and that is where the company shines since they have been doing cars a long time, they know how to move air in small spaces and small boxes. There is no need for a sub to match the speakers and there are many great speakers out there with years of refinement. The sub worls on the othher hand has more room. It is funny how companys that produce speakers have a hard time with subs and companies that make subs don't do speakers. Some do both but not both well.

I have a slightly off-topic question. Is JL Audio making the rest of the home theater speakers such as the mains, center, and surrounds? Considering how great their home theater subwoofers turned out to be, I would love to see the rest of the line up. :)

JL Audio is working on bringing some pretty damn sweet active monitors called "Primacy." JL Audio has details on their web site.

glennQ

If you set the subwoofer level (at the sub) so that receiver/pre/pro outputs a signal between -5 and zero, you'll have accomplished this:

Each subwoofer amp will have a different level setting to accomplish the above. I usually start out at 1/3 volume on the sub and work up until the receiver/pre/pro is at -5 to zero. One sub I had needed to be set at ~2/3 of it's full scale. My Earthquake sub was at less than 1/4 of it's volume scale. My current JL subs are at 1/2 of their volume scale.

You want to avoid going above zero with the receiver/pre/pro output because you run the potential of overdriving the sub amp inputs and/or clipping the signal.


If you want to run ARO at all, run it first. However, ARO is a single point, single band EQ. Audyssey is a multi-point, multi-band EQ. They may or, (more likely), may not compliment each other. In that case, skip ARO and just run Audyssey.

I have posted about this previously in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=736243&page=154
(Starting with post # 4615.)

Craig


Thanks Craig.

Tony

JL Audio is working on bringing some pretty damn sweet active monitors called "Primacy." JL Audio has details on their web site.

glennQ


When I was ordering the f113, the dealer gave me the price of the primacy "x3". I almost fall off my seat.


Tony

When I was ordering the f113, the dealer gave me the price of the primacy "x3". I almost fall off my seat.


Tony

That expensive, uh?

That expensive, uh? Yup, $10,000 for EACH speaker! :eek:

Primacy Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1063481&highlight=jl+audio+speakers

Craig

Yup, $10,000 for EACH speaker! :eek:
But you don't need amps. :)

But you don't need amps. :)

Or fancy speaker wire. :D

Or fancy speaker wire. :D
How about "fancy" interconnects? :D

With this economy @ $10K each, this will have to include delivery, setup and interconnects. They might even mow your lawn for you. :rolleyes:;)

way over priced.

With this economy @ $10K each, this will have to include delivery, setup and interconnects. They might even mow your lawn for you. :rolleyes:;)


And a woman to dance in front of you while you listen to the awesome sound.


Tony

Not that I can afford JL Audio's Primacy X3 monitors... But 5 Primacy X3s, and 2 Gotham G213s would only be around $74,000. That doesn't feel out of line for a full system of top-of-the-line subwoofers, speakers, digital filters, and perfectly-matched amplification!
I understand those using a $2500 AVR may gasp; but I know plenty of people spend >$70,000 on their video alone! Ever see what trim guys charge for crown molding? :eek:

glennQ

5 Primacy X3s, and 2 Gotham G213s would only be around $74,000. That doesn't feel out of line for a full system of top-of-the-line subwoofers, speakers, digital filters, and perfectly-matched amplification!
I understand those using a $2500 AVR may gasp; but I know plenty of people spend >$70,000 on their video alone! Ever see what trim guys charge for crown molding? :eek:

glennQ

Yeah, I know … $75K is chump change to me too but I didn’t want to make all the little people here on AVS jealous.
That said, I do think the lawn mowing should be included.

Yeah, I know … $75K is chump change to me too but I didn’t want to make all the little people here on AVS jealous.
That said, I do think the lawn mowing should be included.

Glenn will be happy to mow your lawn as long as you live in Manhattan. :p

Got an AR# today from lovely Amy she quite sweet, making this transaction all the more easier:(

Here we go...

Djoel

Got an AR# today from lovely Amy she quite sweet, making this transaction all the more easier:(

Here we go...

Djoel

Don't worry, your f113 will come back to you better than ever. :p

Got an AR# today from lovely Amy she quite sweet, making this transaction all the more easier:(

Here we go...

Djoel
In my situation I was lucky they came out to me, mind you mine were fuses no fault to jl as it was a power brownout.

Don't worry, your f113 will come back to you better than ever. :p



Who Me worry:(

On the othe hand feel free to do any updates, if they are any;)


Djoel

In my situation I was lucky they came out to me, mind you mine were fuses no fault to jl as it was a power brownout.



Some time it pay to live down under!:)


Djoel

Who Me worry:(

On the othe hand feel free to do any updates, if they are any;)


Djoel

We will. It's standard operating procedure.

We will. It's standard operating procedure.

What updates??? :rolleyes:

Hell I'll take a new pair of them gloves!:D

Djoel

Does anyone know the exact measurements of the carton for f113?

Thanks

Djoel

Does anyone know the exact measurements of the carton for f113?

Thanks

Djoel

I'll measure when I go home tonight after work unless someone else provides the info..

Charles

I'll measure when I go home tonight after work unless someone else provides the info..

Charles

Thank you Charles

I got the box from my friend's home which I was storing it there, but I got home late..This guy is a mixologist, and he was showing me a new fruit fussion Vodka he had in hand. So the last thing I wanted to do this morning was hunt for a measuring tape, and deal with a flat box! My poor head!

DJoel

D,

The shipping box/container for the JL113 is:

27" H X 25" L X 22" W

D,

The shipping box/container for the JL113 is:

27" H X 25" L X 22" W


Great info. Will fit in my old mpv.

I remember picking up the HSU HO Sub using my wife's new lexus. I had to take the box off at the HSU location and brought the sub through the backdoor-painful.

Can a person lift 140lbs of weight from the van to the house? At least to the ground and sliding to the house. I am getting weaker now :). I used to weight lift in the day.



tony

Thanks Charles you're the best:)

That's perfect..

One more thing, guess I have to put the grill on for a safe travel ?

Djoel

Can a person lift 140lbs of weight from the van to the house? At least to the ground and sliding to the house. I am getting weaker now :). I used to weight lift in the day.tony


You would find me at the gym right around this time a few years ago, so the truth is I can't lift this thing from the living room to the foyer. Our apt. has a sunken livingroom with a couple of steps:o So on that note get a hand truck;)


http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s57/djoeltaveras/CaryCADMB500018.jpg I can't do it!!!

DJoel

It's difficult to put a scale on the box size, but maybe this could help.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Chas_T/VTF3-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Chas_T/F113/2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Chas_T/vtfa.jpg

Thanks Charles you're the best:)

That's perfect..

One more thing, guess I have to put the grill on for a safe travel ?

Djoel

D,

I would put the grill on for sure. I'll just put a few pics here to refresh your memory of how it was packaged from the factory. I can never figure out how the pieces were packed and that's why I always take pics if I ever need to move the pieces in their original container.

If you need more of these, just PM me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Chas_T/F113/6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Chas_T/F113/7.jpg

It's difficult to put a scale on the box size, but maybe this could help.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Chas_T/VTF3-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Chas_T/F113/2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Chas_T/vtfa.jpg


Mozvz,

How would you describe the sound difference betwen the HSU, MBM, Turbo to the F113?

I had the same setup before.



From reading the threads, the correct way to unpack is:

1) cut the tapes from the top
2) flip the box upside down and pull out the box
3) Smile? Unless its damaged then O'Sh$t.


Tony

Hey Charles one thing I do remember is that the sub comes upside down, or am I making things up!

Thanks for the pics:) I have a few pics myself but doubt they'll be as helpful as yours.

Oops I made a mistake with my email, misspelled it! I pm you with correct email.


Cheers

Djoel:)

OOOOhhhh I remember the love and overwhelming joy unpacking a Fathom, thanks for the Memories... I was like a kid in a candy store when I got my F112 home... :)

Sweet....

Mozvz,
How would you describe the sound difference betwen the HSU, MBM, Turbo to the F113?

I had the same setup before.


Tony,

So much time has passed since I've had the Hsu sub with the MBM12, that I am not qualified to comment. What I recall about the Hsu product is that it's a terrific sub and I was very happy with the combination of the two.

The main reason I purchased the JL was due to the buzz on the AVS forum when it made it's initial appearance on here. The size and aesthetics honestly were my main reason for the purchase as my room is very small and the Hsu was overpowering due to it's size. I have never been a big fan of large sized boxes in the subwoofer world of audio, so the JL fit my needs entirely. A somewhat revolutionary product at least IMHO as I looked for a product like this all my audio life.

However, the SQ also was very, very important to me. With that in mind, there are some very sharp and intelligent audio sub junkies on here who I respect that gave the small footprint and output their blessings. Taking into consideration SQ, small footprint, aesthetes and build quality, I was sold on the product and still am. If I had the floor space, I'd add another one, but right now, I am working on some potential changes that I have yet to act upon. If I make the changes, then I'll just add another. I think you will be pleasantly surprised when you integrate the sub into your system.

OOOOhhhh I remember the love and overwhelming joy unpacking a Fathom, thanks for the Memories... I was like a kid in a candy store when I got my F112 home... :)

Sweet....

What the heck. A couple more if to increase the memory factor and more joy to end the day.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Chas_T/F113/5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Chas_T/F113/jl10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Chas_T/F113/1.jpg

That's one great looking sub, I'm really glad I got it glossy even though a dealer here in NY tried to convince me to get the satin finish, he was telling me he was getting complains from prior buyers that they had to dust the sub every so often, and that I could save myself a few hundred bucks by choosing the satin! I was like who cares it's shinny and oh sooo pretty..
To each is own.

BTW Charles my girl and I love the rug, you and your wife have great taste.


Djoel

Does the sub have any feet? I might get sliders for them since I have wood floor.

tony

Yes on the feet, I think they are made out of hard rubber.


Djoel

So after upgrading to a new A/V receiver i decided to upgrade my speakers, so i went with KEF KHT 6000, i know they not the best speakers but they are better then what i had before, and they have a small foot print and they look sleek with my Pioneer 151, maybe i should had gone with Paradigm Millennia.
I've been looking to get also a subwoofer and i decided to go with a JL, they look good they seem to sound good, i've never had the opportunity to listening to one, but so many people say that, they can't be wrong.
The question i have is which one? the F112 or the F113...i had my mind on the F113 but then someone said that maybe the F112 would a better choice, my room is 19x13 with an opening to dinning room and another to a foyer.
I more of a movie fan than music, but if i have a better system maybe i will start to listen to music.
Life was so much simpler before finding AVS...:)

So after upgrading to a new A/V receiver i decided to upgrade my speakers, so i went with KEF KHT 6000, i know they not the best speakers but they are better then what i had before, and they have a small foot print and they look sleek with my Pioneer 151, maybe i should had gone with Paradigm Millennia.
I've been looking to get also a subwoofer and i decided to go with a JL, they look good they seem to sound good, i've never had the opportunity to listening to one, but so many people say that, they can't be wrong.
The question i have is which one? the F112 or the F113...i had my mind on the F113 but then someone said that maybe the F112 would a better choice, my room is 19x13 with an opening to dinning room and another to a foyer.
I more of a movie fan than music, but if i have a better system maybe i will start to listen to music.
Life was so much simpler before finding AVS...:)


I would go with the F113 if it's in your budget. My room is about the same size and I'm currently using a single F113 and considering a second as I want more impact in the room.

I would go with the F113 if it's in your budget. My room is about the same size and I'm currently using a single F113 and considering a second as I want more impact in the room.

Budget is not a problem, what confused me after i zero in the F113 was that i heard that the F112 has a bigger range and almost the same output, i see the specs on paper, but in real use how do they sound? i just don't know.
I'm going from a HTIB subwoofer to a real one, so either JL will sound much better.

Budget is not a problem, what confused me after i zero in the F113 was that i heard that the F112 has a bigger range and almost the same output, i see the specs on paper, but in real use how do they sound? i just don't know.
I'm going from a HTIB subwoofer to a real one, so either JL will sound much better.


My room is 20x15 and I am very happy with the F113. Stop worrying and just get the 113 and be done with it.:D