I hear what you are saying RMK. The only difference is I changed everything in a two week time frame. I got new Salk speakers, two F113s and a 70in Sony SXRD. My wife has completely changed her attitude about the HT now. She has always been very tolerant of my addiction, but now she makes the same comments that your's does. In fact, Open Range is also one of our favs. The other thing I have noticed, is how she enjoys the higher volume now with the new speakers.

“first you sell off the Monster (her term of endearment for the Velo DD-18) and tell me that what we really need is dual subs to fill the space. And now that we have perfect bass in the room, you’re going to sell one of these??? I just smiled and said no your right, the bass has never been better and I think I’ll keep them both.

This from a woman who has gone from being annoyed by the look of my Bose Cubes when I first met her, to now not minding four large and visible floor standers and two big (everything’s relative) subs stuck under end tables. Even though she has no interest in the specifics, she certainly enjoys the result of all of my spending and tweaking. From my standpoint, her appreciation is very gratifying.

Thanks to this site and all of you here that have helped me do this. It really can be a fun hobby.

Now that's what I call a real woman. Definitely a keeper and no further spousal upgrades necessary. ;)

Now that's what I call a real woman. Definitely a keeper and no further spousal upgrades necessary. ;)
That's hysterical. I think my wife always gets freaked out when I upgrade electronics so much because she thinks I'm going to "upgrade" her to a newer (younger) model! :D

Hey Jacksonian, whenever mine asks whether the large box deliveries will ever stop I ask what she would prefer: 1. fast audio 2. fast cars or 3. fast women. Audio wins every time. ;) :D

That's hysterical. I think my wife always gets freaked out when I upgrade electronics so much because she thinks I'm going to "upgrade" her to a newer (younger) model! :D

You know I hope,a newer model is not always a better choice. As with subs the proven one is a keeper. :p

You know I hope,a newer model is not always a better choice. As with subs the proven one is a keeper. :p
Yep! I'm done upgrading subs and women!

Can't say that about projectors and plasmas yet though.

Yep! I'm done upgrading subs and women!

Can't say that about projectors and plasmas yet though.


Im done too, dual F113's is by FAR the best upgrade I've ever made to my HT system. :D

I can't wait to see how the F113 stacks up against the Submersive and BMF-1.

You guys gotta quit saying "dual f113's" or I'm gonna get an upgrade complex and start thinking I need another one! Shoot, that Fathom manual tells me where to put 4 of them! :D

You guys gotta quit saying "dual f113's" or I'm gonna get an upgrade complex and start thinking I need another one! Shoot, that Fathom manual tells me where to put 4 of them! :D


One F113 is definitely enough :eek: . But........, :rolleyes: If you can swing another one you definitely wont regret it!!!! :D

I can't wait to see how the F113 stacks up against the Submersive and BMF-1.
Ditto! :)

(I'm hoping they're close enough I can save a buck or two :D )

Ditto! :)

(I'm hoping they're close enough I can save a buck or two :D )

Going with a sealed Submersive you should be very close in SQ and save a few pennies. The BMF,I can say more SPL for HT use and lesser SQ(still very good).

Little chance the BMF beats the Submersive on music. Mark Seaton is not firing at his feet. ;) Each will do better than the other for specific applications.

I cannot wait to see serious comparos being posted,by ...Craigsub

Going with a sealed Submersive you should be very close in SQ and save a few pennies. The BMF,I can say more SPL for HT use and lesser SQ(still very good).

Little chance the BMF beats the Submersive on music. Mark Seaton is not firing at his feet. ;) Each will do better than the other for specific applications.

I cannot wait to see serious comparos being posted,by ...Craigsub
Yeah, Kinda what I think too. I'm tentavively planning on the Submersive, but I don't know if I've got the patience.

When is it going to be available?????

MUST RESIST.

The Fathom isn't THAT much more. Right? RIGHT?? :rolleyes:

MUST BE PATIENT! :D

You guys gotta quit saying "dual f113's" or I'm gonna get an upgrade complex and start thinking I need another one! Shoot, that Fathom manual tells me where to put 4 of them! :D

I was seriously about ready to order a second one..... but I gave myself a good reality check and didn't spend the money.

I knew I was always going to want 2 of them (not because they were needed) and that was one of the reasons I sold mine.

I am working on a DIY project now that I CAN have 2 of for less than I sold my Fathom for. I only hope it will have half the SQ the F113 did.

The Fathoms truely are an amazing product.

-Eli

Got any videos? I'd like to see that cone moving all out. One claim is that it can do around four inches total, mechanically.

Got any videos? I'd like to see that cone moving all out. One claim is that it can do around four inches total, mechanically.
http://home.jlaudio.com/multimedia_pages.php?page_id=15

Check them all.

Check them all.

The "Loudspeaker Technology" video at JL's site shows lotsa travel...but it looks like it may be a loose driver. I'm hoping to see that cone going all out in an enclosure in a HT.

The "Loudspeaker Technology" video at JL's site shows lotsa travel...but it looks like it may be a loose driver. I'm hoping to see that cone going all out in an enclosure in a HT.

It does.

-Eli

The "Loudspeaker Technology" video at JL's site shows lotsa travel...but it looks like it may be a loose driver. I'm hoping to see that cone going all out in an enclosure in a HT.

Trust the owners,I have seen the cone move like a mad piston during loud passages with bass under 20hz.It moved like it wanted to knock somebody out.

There is not a single woofer at any price capable of more excusion in any significant way,TC Sounds included(might have a bit more linear). Makes competing subs woofers look like large midrange drivers. ;)

The Submersive uses twin 15inch woofer to arrive at about the same displacement,and here we have a single 13.5! Sick,not practical as the driver is expensive and amp to drive it on the extreme side...but in its size nothing compares,and far less bests it in a sealed config.

Think about all the positive points and...cool factor added. It looks mean just standing there,and when its working it is a serious beast.

Trust the owners,I have seen the cone move like a mad piston during loud passages with bass under 20hz.It moved like it wanted to knock somebody out.

Oh I am not disputing the travel. I'd just like to see it in action...someone play "Irene" or "The Phantom Menace THX Sphere", etc while videoing it more or less. Put it up on YouTube or Google Video? Cuz it would be cool, that's all. Maybe put a lit candle nearby, or blow some cigar smoke at it with proper lighting.

Is it possible to connect the sub b/w the pre-amp and amplifier in a system?

The reason for this is i would like my front speakers and sub to play as one. Basically I want my processor to send a full range signal to the sub via the FR Preout and have the sub process the signal from it's cross-over. Depending on the x-over setting, the sub would use the low pass signals and then send the remaining highpass signals through a set of sub-preouts where i can send to my amplifier for my main L R.

Problem is, I don't seem to see any stereo line level pre-outs on the Fathom. I only see an XLR output and i believe this is only to daisy chain another Fathom. How would i go abouts of setting my system with the Fathom? If it can't be done can anyone recommend another sub that can do this.

Thanks

Is it possible to connect the sub b/w the pre-amp and amplifier in a system?

The reason for this is i would like my front speakers and sub to play as one. Basically I want my processor to send a full range signal to the sub via the FR Preout and have the sub process the signal from it's cross-over. Depending on the x-over setting, the sub would use the low pass signals and then send the remaining highpass signals through a set of sub-preouts where i can send to my amplifier for my main L R.

Problem is, I don't seem to see any stereo line level pre-outs on the Fathom. I only see an XLR output and i believe this is only to daisy chain another Fathom. How would i go abouts of setting my system with the Fathom? If it can't be done can anyone recommend another sub that can do this.

ThanksIf your AVR has good bass management features, why would you want to do this?

If your AVR has good bass management features, why would you want to do this?


From the type of music i listen to (R&B, Hip Hop, Jazz, etc.) I find my floor standers need that extra oomh from a sub. When i listen to 2CH music i set my processor to BYPASS which uses the DAC's on my CD player instead, subsequently bypassing all bass management.

scanido... I understand what you're trying to do and I would recommend that you add a good quality active, stereo 2-way crossover to the system for your 2 channel needs. This will give you the high-pass output to the amplifier for your main speakers. You can also use the active crossover to filter the low-pass output to the Fathoms.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Mr Manville Smith please help ...

Today I power my system,all the subs power on(AUTO ON)and one of my f113s remains OFF! When I switch the sub to ON,still not a sound,I can hear the relay switching the amp.

The subs are connected using RCA inputs(from pre/pro out...ANTHEM D7)...

The sub will play the demo,work fine in the auto calibration but will not play a sound when being fed a line level signal!

I tried the interconect on another sub,signal OK. :(

Now I am afraid I will have to remove a pile of stinking subs out of the way to haul it to the shop.Hope you can help.

Monday I will connect using the BALANCED input. Hoping it will work.

Hello Manville, could you please tell me if/when the Fathom will be available in the UK..?

Mr Smith,

Any idea how I can do a complete reset on this sub,I will leave it disconected for 2-3 hours.

TheEar... that seems weird... is the affected f113 in slave mode or master? There is nothing digital in the signal path, so there is no reset that would affect this.

You may want to contact our tech. support dept. 1-888-JLAUDIO

Simon0... I don't have any clear dates for shipping to the UK... there are a few hurdles that have to be overcome first. We hope by the end of 2007 to be selling in the UK.

[QUOTE=msmith_JL]TheEar... that seems weird... is the affected f113 in slave mode or master? There is nothing digital in the signal path, so there is no reset that would affect this.

You may want to contact our tech. support dept. 1-888-JLAUDIO

QUOTE]

Thank you for the repply,

It is MASTER,and I conneted it alone.On its own dedicated 15AMP line.Will try more tonight.

How long before the sub loses the memory of the auto calibration when disconected?

Simon0... I don't have any clear dates for shipping to the UK... there are a few hurdles that have to be overcome first. We hope by the end of 2007 to be selling in the UK.
Thanks for the reply - disappointing, news :-(

scanido... I understand what you're trying to do and I would recommend that you add a good quality active, stereo 2-way crossover to the system for your 2 channel needs. This will give you the high-pass output to the amplifier for your main speakers. You can also use the active crossover to filter the low-pass output to the Fathoms.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

I really don't want to introduce an additional item into the chain to add more noise.
It's too bad JL Audio hasn't implemented a simple feature like Line level pre-outs on a high-end product.

Please consider Line Level Pre-outs with a built-in x-over for the FATHOM 10".

Simon0... I don't have any clear dates for shipping to the UK... there are a few hurdles that have to be overcome first. We hope by the end of 2007 to be selling in the UK.

What about Hong Kong?

I really don't want to introduce an additional item into the chain to add more noise.
It's too bad JL Audio hasn't implemented a simple feature like Line level pre-outs on a high-end product.

Please consider Line Level Pre-outs with a built-in x-over for the FATHOM 10".

It's not a problem, scanido... we appreciate the suggestion.
Line level preouts are not completely simple if they require crossover filtering, and when implemented there is the complication of having to run another long signal cable from your powered subwoofer back to your mains amplifier.
I actually have the same issue in my 2 channel system and I am using an active crossover in my main equipment rack to solve the issue.

What about Hong Kong?

Probably sooner than the UK... please send us an e-mail at the address listed on our website and we will give you better information.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Mr Smith,

Agent Smith we have all under control,tried the balanced input,works A1. I am not shipping anything,too lazy. I will use all my subs with XLR inputs using balanced interconects.

Purchased a few good cables today. I will call JL tomorrow just to inform them.

Probably sooner than the UK... please send us an e-mail at the address listed on our website and we will give you better information.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Actually, I have. I contacted Carl Kennedy as per your website sometime last year. He gave me some estimates and asked me to contact him again in January to see if he could be more specific, which I did. But I haven't heard from him in 3 weeks. I guess I'll try again. Thanks.

To me, it looks like JL has opened the door to a new chapter in speaker design, or at least first to market. That is, large diameter VC, long throw, linear, big motor, drivers.

Actually if im not mistaken the jl design is old.

Anyways a car audio shop can build a sweet w7 home set up for tons cheaper than the phantom. Of'course without the bells and whistles.

Originally Posted by Zues

Actually if im not mistaken the jl design is old.

Anyways a car audio shop can build a sweet w7 home set up for tons cheaper than the phantom. Of'course without the bells and whistles.
In the context of car audio perhaps your right.

However, the W7 used in the Fathoms is not the same W7 that the car audio shop will build for you "for tons cheaper than the phantom". And "without the bells and whistles" it really would not be a Fathom, would it?

To add to this thread I have to say I am very impressed with the service and response time I got from JL Audio. You guys support your products well.

From product design,to customer service JL Audio sets the standard.

Hey guys!

I would like to use a sub with two different applications in the same room. I have a Classe preamp & poweramp and CD player on one side for 2 channnel audio listening, and an old Lexicon SSP with DVD player, etc. on the other side. I would like the sub to be plugged into and working with both applications.

With the Fathom F113, can this be accomplished and how? Does the sub have two RCA inputs? What are my options and what do you recommend?

I am not even close to being as technical as the rest of you, so please excuse me if I did not explain my question right or left out important info.

Thanks!!
Dave

If anyone found an authorized, trustworthy dealer of the JL Fathom sub that has the best price and will ship out of state, can you please send me a PM with their info??

Thanks so much!!
Dave

To add to this thread I have to say I am very impressed with the service and response time I got from JL Audio. You guys support your products well.

From product design,to customer service JL Audio sets the standard.

Did you fix the inoperative RCA input?

moonlightdrive...

The Fathom has left and right balanced (XLR or 1/4-inch TRS) PLUS left and right unbalanced (RCA) connections. With either input bank you have the choice of stereo or mono input.

You can connect one setup to the balanced inputs and the other to the unbalanced inputs as long as you don't try operating both at once.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

moonlightdrive...

The Fathom has left and right balanced (XLR or 1/4-inch TRS) PLUS left and right unbalanced (RCA) connections. With either input bank you have the choice of stereo or mono input.

You can connect one setup to the balanced inputs and the other to the unbalanced inputs as long as you don't try operating both at once.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Thanks Manville!!

So as long as I don't try to operate both setups at the same time, there will definitley be no cross talk?

If I accidentally had both setups on at the same time, would that be dangerous/damaging in any way? Sorry if this is a dopey question. :)

Thanks!
Dave

Did you fix the inoperative RCA input?

I decided not to break my back,so nope.I use XLR inputs. Bret from JL Audio told me to call them if I decided to have it fixed,I told him right now it will stay on XLR and works fine.

Thanks Manville!!

So as long as I don't try to operate both setups at the same time, there will definitley be no cross talk?

If I accidentally had both setups on at the same time, would that be dangerous/damaging in any way? Sorry if this is a dopey question. :)

Thanks!
Dave

The inputs banks are isolated from each other, so there is no danger of damage... it would just sound silly.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Hello msmith_JL

I was wondering is the light suppose to stay on once there is no signal going to the sub.
It remains green,I never notice since I am one those people who like the look of the F113 with the grill on!

By the way love the sub,I am thinking I would love a F110 once the they release for sale.

Djoel

Djoel,

The light will remain on until the Fathom goes to sleep, which typically takes about 1/2 hour after the signal has stopped.

Glad you're enjoying your f113!

Djoel,

The light will remain on until the Fathom goes to sleep, which typically takes about 1/2 hour after the signal has stopped.

Glad you're enjoying your f113!

I got up this morning and the light was still on,I'll check to see if it's on auto position when I get home tonight.But as far as I remember it was.

Thanks Manville

Djoel

In case any of you other fanboys have missed it, The Perfect Vision just had a little review on the F112 and dual F113s. Not a detailed report but I do value what Robert Harley has to say as he was at Stereophile for years when I used to buy it. He raved about the quality and quantity with the pair of the F113s.

The full Robert Harley review is coming out in the March issue of The Absolute Sound.

In case any of you other fanboys have missed it, The Perfect Vision just had a little review on the F112 and dual F113s. Not a detailed report but I do value what Robert Harley has to say as he was at Stereophile for years when I used to buy it. He raved about the quality and quantity with the pair of the F113s.


Thank you for the tip. As you said, nice little review. I am really looking forward to the Robert Hartley dual F113 review. I have found my dual F113's just keep getting better. Music, movies whatever I throw at them they handle with perfect control and punch. The Fathoms have been my best single investment in Audio to date.

The full Robert Harley review is coming out in the March issue of The Absolute Sound.

Excellent! :cool: (taps fingers together like Mr. Burns from Simpsons)

Thank you for the tip. As you said, nice little review. I am really looking forward to the Robert Hartley dual F113 review. I have found my dual F113's just keep getting better. Music, movies whatever I throw at them they handle with perfect control and punch. The Fathoms have been my best single investment in Audio to date.

Same here!! I love my F113's! :D

I enjoy these subs a great lot5,mostly with music.SO damn natural,the HGS18 has finally met its match and more. :D

Dual f113's and a f112,goodness redefined. Now need to pony up another f112.

Quad JL baby.

:eek ^ ^ ^ :D
You are one sick puppy Ear.....

Hey maybe you can answer this question is there any benefit on putting a slab of marble under a sub woofer? The f113 would looks so cool with some nice piece of stone.

djoel

This is my first post ever but I just wanted to say that I've been reading this thread for quite a while and I have pm'ed a couple of you with questions and your opinions on the Fathoms. I just wanted to say thanks for your input and I'm going to order three f113's tomorrow.

:eek ^ ^ ^ :D
You are one sick puppy Ear.....

Hey maybe you can answer this question is there any benefit on putting a slab of marble under a sub woofer? The f113 would looks so cool with some nice piece of stone.

djoel

A slab of marble under a sub! Unless your floor is ...made of sand i do not see a clear gain. One thing is for sure,any subwoofer should be firmly planted on the ground moving as little as possible.Or energy is lost in the entire cabinet moving during violent deep bass fests.

The Auralex floats the sub,I like to glue my subs into place(smaller high power subs).

I have glued subs in the past to the floor(using security double sided stickers).Helped bass definition ...and was a major pain to remove the subs when moving the sub was a must(had to redo the floor in one room because of this practrice).Sunfire and small Velo subs gain a good deal from this(no more dancing on the floor!).Needless to say the finish was...finished after removing the stickers and cleaning the glue. :o

This is my first post ever but I just wanted to say that I've been reading this thread for quite a while and I have pm'ed a couple of you with questions and your opinions on the Fathoms. I just wanted to say thanks for your input and I'm going to order three f113's tomorrow.


Three :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: and for good measure one more :eek: !! I thought I was outta control having bought two of them.

How LOW can these F113s go?

How LOW can these F113s go?

they go lower and sound better than your or my subs. :D

THEY BETTER for the price tag...

I'm just curious because they are a sealed design...wonder what their extension is...

Originally Posted by bgillyjcu
How LOW can these F113s go?
The answers to your question starts on page 5 of this thread.

wonder what their extension is...
About 4". With a 2500 watt amp. and automatic PEQ. Also in this thread.

Well, I have enjoyed the single 113 for a few months now. As TheEAR stated, mostly with music.

The second 113 is on the way.

Question/ The Master and slave may be separated by as much as 12M. Any unbalanced cable recommendations are welcome.

This is my first post ever but I just wanted to say that I've been reading this thread for quite a while and I have pm'ed a couple of you with questions and your opinions on the Fathoms. I just wanted to say thanks for your input and I'm going to order three f113's tomorrow.
You will love them.

Well, I have enjoyed the single 113 for a few months now. As TheEAR stated, mostly with music.

The second 113 is on the way.

Question/ The Master and slave may be separated by as much as 12M. Any unbalanced cable recommendations are welcome.

Your only option is to use a balanced cable from the master to the slave sub. I purchased this one (Canare L-4E6S). http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/balancedaudio/index.htm

With the quality we have in the JL subs,balanced is the way to go. And besides any upscale pre/pro has a full set of balanced outputs.


Now lets hope JL releases the Gotham by summer,it will look great flanked by Fathoms. :p

The answers to your question starts on page 5 of this thread.


About 4". With a 2500 watt amp. and automatic PEQ. Also in this thread.


Thanks, I really didn't feel like reading through 44 pages just for a couple answers..

Your only option is to use a balanced cable from the master to the slave sub. I purchased this one (Canare L-4E6S). http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/balancedaudio/index.htm
Thanks.

My owners manual is at home...how should these be terminated? Male/male, etc.

Thanks.

My owners manual is at home...how should these be terminated? Male/male, etc.


No problem, standard Male/Female cable. You can even buy a balanced mic cable at a music/pro audio store but I decided to use the Canare. Seemed foolish to cheap out on the cables for this class of sub. :)

No problem, standard Male/Female cable. You can even buy a balanced mic cable at a music/pro audio store but I decided to use the Canare. Seemed foolish to cheap out on the cables for this class of sub. :)
Thanks again. I like the folks at Blue Jeans and you're right...cheaping out is not an option I care to explore with these subs.

Thanks again. I like the folks at Blue Jeans and you're right...cheaping out is not an option.

I use Canare RCA to XLR to go from my receiver to my main amp and Canare 4S11 star quad for my main L&R cables. I have been very pleased with their performance.

-Eli

Guys ... if you look at the graphs below, look at the bass output from 12 to 20 Hz in the Fathom 113 vs. the Plus/2 ...


My goodness.......the 12-20hz performance of the f113 is mindblowing. It blows away the plus/2...

Craig, Blackhawk down had to be a NEW EXPERIENCE with this set up.....could you try Haunting and Pulse with the F112 and F113???

A slab of marble under a sub! Unless your floor is ...made of sand i do not see a clear gain. One thing is for sure,any subwoofer should be firmly planted on the ground moving as little as possible.Or energy is lost in the entire cabinet moving during violent deep bass fests.

The Auralex floats the sub,I like to glue my subs into place(smaller high power subs).

I have glued subs in the past to the floor(using security double sided stickers).Helped bass definition ...and was a major pain to remove the subs when moving the sub was a must(had to redo the floor in one room because of this practrice).Sunfire and small Velo subs gain a good deal from this(no more dancing on the floor!).Needless to say the finish was...finished after removing the stickers and cleaning the glue. :o

Dancing....I know what your saying I had a Sunfire EQ,and that thing would do a jig in certain passages..Glad I am I went with a F113 nice and heavy!Bad for the back but awesome on the ears.

Thanks for the advice....Oh I am going the other direction with the subs size I can't wait for the F110 :cool:

Djoel

Originally Posted by bgillyjcu
Thanks, I really didn't feel like reading through 44 pages just for a couple answers..
Ya, I know what you mean. It's much easer to ask redundant questions making the thread longer as opposed to reading. Kind of makes the topic a perpetual motion machine.

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/7294/screenshotoz2.jpg

Just a heads-up... Keep a lookout for a review of the f113 in the March issue (#170) of The Abso!ute Sound.
Robert Harley gives a glowing eight page review and calls the f113 "an amazing bargain."

glennQ

Simply amazing, that's all i can say. Well, OK that's not all I can say. I listen to mostly jazz and the bass is just unbelievable. So tight. As for the Ht experience, excellent, when the helicopter flies over, you can feel it. ALmost bought a DD-15, glad I didn't.

Thanks for leading me doen the path of fathom 113, best speaker decision I've made in years.

Lou

Thanks for the info! Holy JL woofers now a third glowing review! Simply confirming what all JL owners know,redefining value in the high end sub market. :)

Very photogenic the Fathom. Looks to match its performance. :D

Oh oh I like the Wilson-Benesch bass "generator" very clever and unique. Oh me like,now how much is the Wilson-Benesch? I am interested. (6-7K?)

Everyone says their listening to 2CH music on their JL's and am wondering how you all are hooking these subs up?

Since the Fathoms don't come with any line-level pre-outs whatsoever, what is the ideal way of hooking these subs up?

Everyone says their listening to 2CH music on their JL's and am wondering how you all are hooking these subs up?

Since the Fathoms don't come with any line-level pre-outs whatsoever, what is the ideal way of hooking these subs up?

Any sub woofer should be ideally connected from a preamp or pre/pro with sub outputs. Even my two preamps have outputs for sub,and on one I use the secondary variable out.

I like the Wilson-Benesch bass "generator" very clever and unique. Oh me like,now how much is the Wilson-Benesch? I am interested. (6-7K?)

I don't know. I only have the portion of the magazine with JL Audio review.

glennQ

Originally Posted by scanido

Everyone says their listening to 2CH music on their JL's and am wondering how you all are hooking these subs up?

Since the Fathoms don't come with any line-level pre-outs whatsoever, what is the ideal way of hooking these subs up?

They are line level. No speaker level inputs.

Any sub woofer should be ideally connected from a preamp or pre/pro with sub outputs. Even my two preamps have outputs for sub,and on one I use the secondary variable out.


Ok, thanks Ear.

I guess i'll need to search for some sort of external x-over then because when i listen to 2CH stereo, my processor bypasses all processing and the signal is straight from the CD player, hence no bass management and therefore no sub if it were connected from the sub-preouts.

If anyone is running their Fathoms as i have described, what x-over are you using?

THanks,
Steve

LInk to the review!

http://www.soundoctor.com/pdf/TheAbsoluteSound_JLAudio_F113_3-07.pdf

LInk to the review!

http://www.soundoctor.com/pdf/TheAbsoluteSound_JLAudio_F113_3-07.pdf

After reading that, i just want to go out any buy one of these! Thanks for the link

After reading that, i just want to go out any buy one of these! Thanks for the link


Or two! ;) ... Great review, thanks for the link.

After I bought my pair of F113s, Carl Kennedy actually called me at my home to see how I liked them. Left me his cell phone # in case I had any questions later. Pretty good custumer service!!

LInk to the review!

http://www.soundoctor.com/pdf/TheAbsoluteSound_JLAudio_F113_3-07.pdf

Very nice review.

That's one of the finest subwoofer reviews I have read and its fitting that it was about the JL113. He really describes the subs ability to blend seamlessly with any speaker to a tee. Also the way he descibes how it reproduces kick drum and bass guitar is very well done. I also found the interview with Carl Kennedy very insightful. You got to admire companies with such a passion for excellence. To enter the congested sub market with what is likely the best sounding home audio subwoofer in the world is nothing short of extraordinary. It will be interesting what they have in mind for an encore.

Hello,

I have always respected Robert Harleys opinion and reviews. I really don't need another sub, but I had to order a 113 today. That review was icing on the cake or icing on the checking account I should say.

rmlowz

Four months ago ... one AVS member got things rolling with this ...

I have both subs working now. I am amazed at how deep and full they sound. No boomy, bloated sound at all. Haven't had a chance to really get into a good movie yet since I just got them both connected tonight. So far it looks like I can sell my SMS-1 with my CS-Ultras!! With any luck I will get my Salk speakers next Wed. and I will finally have everything I want for my HT and music.


Looks like he was ahead of the curve ... :)

Four months later and I still can't believe how great my HT sounds. Take a look and listen to "Flags Of Our Fathers". My God maybe one of the top movies I have heard for surround, and the bass is just incredible. The F113s never broke a sweat. Just hit me in the chest like a fist.

Four months later and I still can't believe how great my HT sounds. Take a look and listen to "Flags Of Our Fathers". My God maybe one of the top movies I have heard for surround, and the bass is just incredible. The F113s never broke a sweat. Just hit me in the chest like a fist.

I just watched it last night and completely agree, great movie, great bass.

nethomas, are your F113's co-located? Have you posted any pictures of your HT?

Some of us have a 'significate other' to answer to in some fashion or another - in my case, a black box is not allowed in the listening area (living room). She is perfectly willing to let me spend >$3k for a DD-15, as it is availabe in 'maple'.

Why, oh why, cannot JL offer other finishes? I guess I'll have to avoid any thread with 'F113' in the title...

John F

Some of us have a 'significate other' to answer to in some fashion or another - in my case, a black box is not allowed in the listening area (living room). She is perfectly willing to let me spend >$3k for a DD-15, as it is availabe in 'maple'.

Why, oh why, cannot JL offer other finishes? I guess I'll have to avoid any thread with 'F113' in the title...

John FMaple huh,just go to Homedepot and buy some fake "maple" adhesive covering. Then get the Xacto and wrap the f113. :p

My F113s are next to my mains on each side. I haven,t gotten around to posting any pics yet. $30K+ worth of HT and no digital camera!!

I must have no luck OR JL has bad dealers/reps.


BEGIN RANT

Finally decided to take the plunge, fork over big money, and take everybodys word on this. I've tried on three separate occasions at two separate dealerships to audition this sub, with bad results each time.

Took my huge truck through SoCal traffic after checking to make sure dealer had them in stock. Get there and talk to salesman (same as last time, he remembers me), and ask to listen to the sub. He says no problem and launches into the following:

The problems that I had last time had been refered to west coast rep, who visited store and replicated problem. He was having trouble explaining it to me, so he calls the west coast rep and hands me the phone. I'm talking to "(name witheld at this point)" and he tells me that the 2 tracks that I listened to (Enya's Watermark - the Longships and DTS The Haunting "It's Cold) are POORLY RECORDED, and that the high quality of the Fathom reveals this, whereas a Servo-controlled sub hides this. He tells me that they hooked up a Paradigm Servo 15 in the store, which was able to reproduce the notes, albeit at a lower volume.

I basically tell him that this is a bunch of BS, that these tracks have been used as demos by numerous manufacturers (at shows I've been to) and dealers. I am surprised at this statement he made, as I have never heard even the slightest hint that these are bad recordings. I told him that I have communicated with various people with this sub (this forum), and everybody claims they were able to reproduce the music/effects with no problem.

While talking on the phone, I'm pacing around the store, and pause in front of the Fathom. There is a distinct HUMMMMMMM coming from it.

After hanging up with the Rep, I tell the salesman about the humm, and he says he noticed it. I suggest floating the ground, but he says he thinks the problem is with the RCA jack on the back, and is trying to figure out if he has a preamp with XLR sub outs.

While he was trying to change connections, the salesman was telling me that they've played all sorts of music for demo's without any repeats of what happened to me (I was first in over 6 weeks ago).

I'm getting the distinct impression that this sub has a grounding problem that has been undetected for at least 6 weeks, including an inspection by a "rep". I give up in frustration, and begin to inquire about return policies if I decide to buy 1 (trusting everybody else's opinion) and am told 15% restocking fee.

"Thank you for your time. Goodbye." and quickly leave.

I've decided that there is something wrong someplace, and I will learn patience and wait for Seaton SubMersive/SVS Ultra13/TC Sounds to come out with their newest.

END RANT

PROTECTIVE FLAME SUIT ON

Is this sub for real, or is it just me? :(

All products can sometimes have their hits and misses. It sounds more like the dealer has limited knowledge of the hardware they sell and audio in general. These things acan defintitely be frustrating! Hopefully, there is some other way you can audition one.

The JL Audio and Velodyne subs have quite a bit more electronics as well. Sometimes these things DO break. I am not saying that this is case here.

They are awesome when they work. I have heard some horror stories from Velodyne as well, (knocking on wood).

That is one nice thing about the HSU/SVS offerings, they are very simple designs and simple to troubleshoot and fix...

The JL IS a great product, but no product is perfect either. Although, I certainly would not base my opinion on your experiences thusfar....

John Schneider:
We are very sorry you had such an unpleasant experience and we are very concerned about it. Please e-mail the particulars to Carl Kennedy, our Dir. of Home Products (or call him at 888-JLAUDIO)... Carl's email address is listed on our home web site.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

John Schneider,

I have been where you are so many times, its not funny.

These internet forums with all the whop pla can cause one to make expensive mistakes. In fact, this afternoon I boxed up a sub to be returned to another manufacturer. Althought they don't charge a restocking fee, freight both ways is on my nickle.

You did the right thing walking out. (I've done that before, too) You have no reason to believe that your demo material was poorly mastered. Sounds too much like excuses for something wrong with the sub. I would still look around to see if I could find another demo just in case there really was something broken with the one you listened to and not a true indication of the subs performance.

As an aside, about a year and a half ago, I drove 200 miles to Atlanta to demo some speakers I was interested in. The speakers sound thin and they tried to sell me another brand. I wound up ordering just a center channel from somebody else because I didn't believe the demo. The speaker I bought sound great. The only thing that makes any sense is that the set that I demoed didn't have the bridging plates connecting the twin 8" woofers in each cabinet. That would work out for the center and front mains to six 8" woofers not working. Yes, that makes a difference. I wound up spending $13K with a different dealer for the exact same speakers solely because the first dealer had a bad demo.

John Schneider:
We are very sorry you had such an unpleasant experience and we are very concerned about it. Please e-mail the particulars to Carl Kennedy, our Dir. of Home Products (or call him at 888-JLAUDIO)... Carl's email address is listed on our home web site.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.
I will do so. FYI Carl Kennedy was the name the rep was dropping on the phone, so at least that part was correct.

Give Kennedy a chance to talk with you John. I don't have my nose up anybodies butt, if I didn't like my F113s I would certainly take them back(actually wouldn't have bought them in the first place). There is something wrong with that dealer and that sub. I use Enya's Watermark all the time and it is great.

Sorry to hear,so far JL ranks way up there in service.

And I have thrown the gauntlet at my subs and none of the problems you have described. In fact would
the first f113 have any issues reproducing what I threw at it and belive I would not have wasted a dime on others.Or far less recomend these subs.

Is this sub for real, or is it just me? :(
First of all, sounds like you have had a very frustrating experience with this dealer and the rep. you just talked to. Which really sucks! That said, it's one sub at one dealer. My guess is Carl K. will make sure you get a proper demo of another f113 somehow. As far as this sub "being for real". I have lost count of the satisfied owners. Not one has complained of it having the problem you describe. All of us (yes, I own one) have probably given it at least a few "torture tests" with no ill-effects. One bad sub demo does not make a bad sub, especially with all the evidence of these owners experiences (including GP measurements showing it outperforms both the DD-18 and SVS Plus/2 in raw SPL down low). Throw in the rave professional reviews, especially the latest by Harley, and it's pretty evident that this sub is all it is cracked up to be.
Hopefully you will be able to find out for yourself. Not that it is right, but many of us bought sight unseen and are glad we did. Good Luck!

MF

Keep in mind that the exact same f112 was used by Dan Kumin for the subjective review in S&V. His comments on its performance in no way indicate a distortion problem of any kind or a lack of low frequency extension or a lack of output capability.



Something simply doesn't add up.


Martin,

Where can i buy one of these in Florida? Do you have an extra one in your closet you want sell :).

Thanks to all who have commiserated, I'm very frustrated at the moment.

I'm really to old for this, but I finally made my mind up yesterday to pull the trigger on this. I was so excited, I literally couldn't sleep.

I need to calm down and try a different dealer,

I have come to respect the opinions of many on this website who have assisted me in my purchases over the last several years (I lurk all the time, and only get active when I'm about to purchase, thus my post count).

Maybe I'll try again on Saturday.

John. If the sub is performing correctly then you have made a wise decision. Its a remarkable piece of hardware.

Just about every piece of audio equipment I have ever owned has had some issues so its important to understand the manufacturers service policy and committment when making a purchase. From all reports service appears to be first rate. Most audio salespeople I've known aren't very knowledgable about their products so I wouldn't put much weight on the instore experience.

Thanks to all who have commiserated, I'm very frustrated at the moment.

I'm really to old for this, but I finally made my mind up yesterday to pull the trigger on this. I was so excited, I literally couldn't sleep.

I need to calm down and try a different dealer,

I have come to respect the opinions of many on this website who have assisted me in my purchases over the last several years (I lurk all the time, and only get active when I'm about to purchase, thus my post count).

Maybe I'll try again on Saturday.

John,
I pulled the trigger on a pair of these without having laid an eyeball or ear on them. Like everyone else says, they are worth the price of admission. If you've read my earlier posts, there is a ground loop issue when using the xlr input in my particular setup. I'm not blaming the subs (yet!) because the room is being redone with dedicated circuits etc.. and then I'll be more critical of any humming or buzzing etc...

It's possible that you're hearing ground loop noise from it in the store which can happen with almost any somewhat complex stereo system. Can be frustrating but can also be solved usually. Ground loop noise doesn't sound like distortion per se so if that's the case then there's something wrong somewhere, either in the sub or in the upstream electronics.

I would have walked out as soon as someone criticized the demo material because you brought material that is WELL KNOWN to be well recorded (assuming you didn't bring in the mp3 version :eek: ).

You don't know me or any of these other posters (probably) but many of us have already bought our JL subs and have nothing to gain or lose by continuing to post. The fact that we do keep posting and raving about our subs should tell you something about our experiences with them. I don't recall seeing any posts where someone regretted buying a JL sub.

If you happen to be up around the Toronto area you could hear mine :)

If anyone found an authorized, trustworthy dealer of the JL Fathom sub that has the best price and will ship out of state, can you please send me a PM with their info??

Thanks so much!!
Dave


I would like to also know where to get the "best price" as funds are very limited....

Thanks guys...pls send a PM.

Nikos

where in toronto did you get your JL and how much?

I am must be the cheapest bastard in this post, and I jump into this purchase of the F113 head first...And I have to say this is the best audio buy I've ever made..This sub will be with me for a long,long time.

Never had an issue,for the exception of some more tweaking and that's part of the fun.
I am very happy with this piece of machine it brings me tons of happiness. (Is That gay!) :p

Djoel

Anybody know if a jl audio car dealer has access to the home gear? or is it separate?

I cant find a "home" dealer close to me....

Any good "sources" would be welcome in a PM.

thanks,

Nikos

any dealers in calgary

Four months later and I still can't believe how great my HT sounds. Take a look and listen to "Flags Of Our Fathers". My God maybe one of the top movies I have heard for surround, and the bass is just incredible. The F113s never broke a sweat. Just hit me in the chest like a fist.

Is this movie out on Bluray or HD-DVD?

Anybody know if a jl audio car dealer has access to the home gear? or is it separate?

Seperate.

glennQ

I would like to know what you guys are listening to,I have the Enya's water marks but I need to dig that one out.That was mention earlier on the post.

I was just hearing to The Boards of Canada Music has the right to.... on my Ipod,and that thing has prodigious bass on all levels :eek:
So what else would have chest breaking bass! :D It's Friday,so after work I am grabbing me a six pack kick back and listing to some tones.

djoel

How long can one expect parts to be available for this sub after the sub is discontinued?

10 years or more from now can one expect to get replacement parts, if needed, for the driver or even the amp???

I know with B&W speakers they keep parts for at least 10years after the model is discontinued.

DJoel, on the Watermark album listen to "The long Ships"(may be the tall ships, I forget) It has some very low bass.

Scanido, do you know something the rest of us don't? Darn thing has only been availabe 4 months and now you're worried about replacement parts when it's discontinued?

Scanido, do you know something the rest of us don't? Darn thing has only been availabe 4 months and now you're worried about replacement parts when it's discontinued?

No i dont. If I did this would be place i would share it.

Because of the high price of this item, i see it as a long-long term purchase. I just want to be re-assured that it can be fixed 5 or 10 years after being discontinued. It would be a shame to invest $5000 CAD (yes, that is how much it goes for us canucks) and have it only active for less than 6-10 years and have no way of fixing the thing.

The reason driving this concern is because I bought a JL Audio 10-W6 driver back in '97 and the sub needed to be fixed since 2003. The driver needed a new surround. JL told me i needed to buy one of the new ones since they did not have replacement parts. I ended up trashing the $600 sub. :eek: What a waste! I can't imagine trashing a $5000 sub!

I would like to hear Mr. Manville's comments on this...

DJoel, on the Watermark album listen to "The long Ships"(may be the tall ships, I forget) It has some very low bass.

Thanks nethomas...I have most of my cd's in a box in a closet..So i'll be taking that one out.I have a mp3, but that wouldn't be good.

Cheers


Djoel

No i dont. If I did this would be place i would share it.

Because of the high price of this item, i see it as a long-long term purchase. I just want to be re-assured that it can be fixed 5 or 10 years after being discontinued. It would be a shame to invest $5000 CAD (yes, that is how much it goes for us canucks) and have it only active for less than 6-10 years and have no way of fixing the thing.

The reason driving this concern is because I bought a JL Audio 10-W6 driver back in '97 and the sub needed to be fixed since 2003. The driver needed a new surround. JL told me i needed to buy one of the new ones since they did not have replacement parts. I ended up trashing the $600 sub. :eek: What a waste! I can't imagine trashing a $5000 sub!

I would like to hear Mr. Manville's comments on this...

Good post.

You bring up a very important point here!

Does JL Audio recomend to use a protective substance like Mink Oil(used on leather shoes)? I know some of you will look grimacing but Bob Carver said in his Sunfire manual to coat the COMPRESSED FOAM sourround of the PR and woofer with MINK OIL. And it does help alot.

Mink oil prevents drying up (slows it alot)and the sourround will not fail as fast.

I can clearly see the JL Audio W7 and the Fathom woofers use a similar compressed foam sourround. Will coating it with MINK OIL help(advisable?).

Can Manville Smith comment on this?

with proper care and non-abusive use, the JL's should last an easy 10+ years. looking at the woofers foam surround, it appears as though it has some sort of treatment applied to it anyhow, but I could certainly be mistaken. Unless you have the grill off, in direct sun-light and do not have a good control of the humidity level in your house that woofer looks like its good for quite a long haul. A friend of mine has a Velodyne ULD-15 he bought I think in 1990 and the foam on his woofer looks practically brand new with no external treatment ever given.

with proper care and non-abusive use, the JL's should last an easy 10+ years. looking at the woofers foam surround, it appears as though it has some sort of treatment applied to it anyhow, but I could certainly be mistaken. Unless you have the grill off, in direct sun-light and do not have a good control of the humidity level in your house that woofer looks like its good for quite a long haul. A friend of mine has a Velodyne ULD-15 he bought I think in 1990 and the foam on his woofer looks practically brand new with no external treatment ever given.

That's what i thought as well for my rugged 10-W6. Low and behold after about 4 years of use, the surround gave way. I pushed the sub, that's what its for, and it broke. It was out of warranty at the time, but i was willing to pay for the repair. Unfortunately this was not possible.

Mr Manville Smith,

Do you know the answer to my question above,I am sure a few people at JL know. I would be very interested to know,as I am about to "coat" a few subs sourrounds this weekend.


Thank you

Gentlemen,

Foam surrounds have come a long way in the last ten years and we use them extensively in much tougher automotive environments. The newer foam materials have much longer lifespans than older materials that tended to dry-rot after a few years. While I cannot give you a specific prediction of how long it will last in your specific environment, we feel confident the materials used in our subwoofers will last longer than a decade.

Mink oil is not recommended... only the pure distilled essence of hummingbird wings should be used.... I'm kidding, of course: THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED TO TREAT THE SURROUNDS WITH OIL or any other substance. This could do more harm than good.

As for the service parts support for our products:
We strive to provide service parts for our products for as long as possible, but we commit to providing parts for at least seven years from the date of discontinuation of a product. Being that Fathoms will probably be built for a few more years as they are presently constituted, this will add up to a decade or more. There have been some isolated cases where parts became impossible to source due to suppliers that went under, but we have contingency plans in place now that should prevent these scenarios from occurring.

Hope that answers your questions.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Mr Manville Smith,

Do you know the answer to my question above,I am sure a few people at JL know. I would be very interested to know,as I am about to "coat" a few subs sourrounds this weekend.


Thank you


Have No Fear the Ear is Here :) . I remember reading your posts in the Klipsch forum , Welcome

That's what i thought as well for my rugged 10-W6. Low and behold after about 4 years of use, the surround gave way. I pushed the sub, that's what its for, and it broke. It was out of warranty at the time, but i was willing to pay for the repair. Unfortunately this was not possible.

Scanido,

The original W6 subwoofers were introduced in 1993 and under abusive (over-excursion) conditions the surrounds could be made to fail through repetitive stress. This generally manifests itself as a circumferential fracture in the foam.

Our newer designs offer much wider rolls to reduce the likelihood of these stress-related failures and also benefit from newer, better foam formulations to improve reliability. The W7 platform used in the Fathoms is extremely reliable, even under abusive conditions and should provide many years of trouble-free service in a home audio/theater application.

How recently did you attempt to get your W6 serviced? Feel free to e-mail me so we don't take this thread off-topic (msmith@jlaudio.com)

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Mr Manville Smith,

As always thank you for the repply,considering it is Friday...night and the repply came tells me service is tops,again.

Your answer,I know the new compressed foam/rubber sourrounds will not dry rot like the cheapo materials used in older designs where woofer travel and internal pressure permited low grade sourrounds.

Why I bring this us is Bob Carber(a man most know has vast knowledge about audio)recomends to coat the sourrounds of the Sunfire upscale models.
I can tell you Mr Manville I did this for all my subs with foam sourrounds from many many brands.

The mink oil(in form of paste) simply seals the surface of the compressed foam sourround.It will not destroy the structure or alter it,the very surface may be penetrated by the product.Preventing contact with air is good in this case.Unless I have it wrong(and I doubt very much).

Guess what? The coated sourrounds remain shiny,new aperance.The uncoated ones have dried a bit(the rooms are kept around 18 Celcius with normal humidity).

Also when I sold my original Sunfire its sourrounds were like new,after years of use...and abuse! Other people's subs,the same model...had a visible deterioration of the sourrounds.This is not the imagination at work.

I will call Brett at JL Audio next week.I am interested to see what he has to say.
Also I will contact Sunfire and inquire more. (yes I want to know,I know I am irritating).

As even rubber sourrounds dry with time,hey I want to keep my subs in pristine condition for 15-20 years. As even if they are all sold and replaced,when I do sell them they will be A1.

RE: woofer foam treatments.

I wouldn't do any modifications to JL products because it has a proven track
record in car audio.

But if you want to do it, then you better know what you are doing.

I bought some high end, 'hand made' woofers from a manufacturer who
sold his product to DIY. He coated the woofer cone and surround.

This was his comment regarding this issue when people asked about
his woofer treatments.

I live in Florida...........

We hand apply 4 layers of damper/sealer, this foam will last a *long* time now.
I learned this with the ocean boats here in Fla (serious yachting here), the
speaker shop I worked at applied this stuff completely over the drivers, foam,
cone, and all to protect them against the salt spray. These drivers held up for
quite a long time in perhaps the worst place for them


another post I found.

The foam we use is hand coated here with 2 layers of PVA sealant/damper front
and back. You get the longevity of rubber and the performance of foam this
way. This is also polyethylene foam, not the polypropylene (?) that was used
back in the day that rotted so quickly either.

Scanido,

The original W6 subwoofers were introduced in 1993 and under abusive (over-excursion) conditions the surrounds could be made to fail through repetitive stress. This generally manifests itself as a circumferential fracture in the foam.

Our newer designs offer much wider rolls to reduce the likelihood of these stress-related failures and also benefit from newer, better foam formulations to improve reliability. The W7 platform used in the Fathoms is extremely reliable, even under abusive conditions and should provide many years of trouble-free service in a home audio/theater application.

How recently did you attempt to get your W6 serviced? Feel free to e-mail me so we don't take this thread off-topic (msmith@jlaudio.com)

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Thanks for taking the time to rectify this problem. I tried to service the sub just last year as it was sitting in my closet - nonfunctional since 2003, and like i said i could not get it serviced.

During the time span of the W6 - W7 i would hope the surround material has become more durable. We'll have to wait and see, my sub didn't break down not until 5 years therafter.

Gentlemen,

Foam surrounds have come a long way in the last ten years and we use them extensively in much tougher automotive environments. The newer foam materials have much longer lifespans than older materials that tended to dry-rot after a few years. While I cannot give you a specific prediction of how long it will last in your specific environment, we feel confident the materials used in our subwoofers will last longer than a decade.

Mink oil is not recommended... only the pure distilled essence of hummingbird wings should be used.... I'm kidding, of course: THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED TO TREAT THE SURROUNDS WITH OIL or any other substance. This could do more harm than good.

As for the service parts support for our products:
We strive to provide service parts for our products for as long as possible, but we commit to providing parts for at least seven years from the date of discontinuation of a product. Being that Fathoms will probably be built for a few more years as they are presently constituted, this will add up to a decade or more. There have been some isolated cases where parts became impossible to source due to suppliers that went under, but we have contingency plans in place now that should prevent these scenarios from occurring.

Hope that answers your questions.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

I'll take this response as good measure that the company is dedicated to provide great after sales service!

I have since print-screened and saved your response so that if i go with the Fathom i would be taken cared of after my warranty expires.

Thanks,
Steve

Thanks for the info! Holy JL woofers now a third glowing review! Simply confirming what all JL owners know,redefining value in the high end sub market. :)

Very photogenic the Fathom. Looks to match its performance. :D

Oh oh I like the Wilson-Benesch bass "generator" very clever and unique. Oh me like,now how much is the Wilson-Benesch? I am interested. (6-7K?)



From the Specs & Priceing in the T.A.S article......

$9395 (with amp/crossover), $5400 for the "Torus" alone.....

From the Specs & Priceing in the T.A.S article......

$9395 (with amp/crossover), $5400 for the "Torus" alone.....

Interesting,I would have first to see how the Torus(with amp)matches in output,linearity and extension with the current leaders (Velo,JL). $10 is a damn lot of cash to drop,it better be outstanding.

I wouldnt expect the Torus to be the same type of low bass transducer as the JL's and Velo's and big SVS's are. It seemed (and was even described as) to be more of an outstanding woofer and not a true subwoofer. I bet it is as accurate and musical as hell but wont give you the impact or kick of the "classic" piston type drivers. It all goes back to simple physics and being able to move huge amounts of air

Well, I went ahead and picked one up yesterday. :o :)

I went to a separate dealer and played the Enya track. It was completely different from the first dealer, BUT there were so many vibrations in the room, it was hard to tell how it really sounded. The dealer didn't have any in stock, and I REALLY was out of patience and was better than half way to the original dealer, so I went back and made the purchase. They are convinced that something is wrong with their sub, and will have somebody do a thorough check.

By the time I got it home, schlepped it up 2 flight of stairs, unboxed it, hooked it up, and made very preliminary adjustments, I was running out of time and energy. I did play the DTS Jurassic Park (corrected version) and was mightily impressed. The sub has incredible output (don't understand people with 2-4 of these), with pretty good control.

I have alot of work ahead of me trying to get this integrated into my system and the room issues. I have the Lexicon MC-12 v4 which gives me plenty of options for adjustment. For the first time, I can tell that I will have to go through the setup for each input/configuration option, and get it dialed in. Much work ahead, but it's the fun type.

My thanks goes out to all who answered my many questions and helped me.

I did speak to Carl Kennedy - truly a sincere and knowledgable man. He made me an offer that was very kind, but I did not take him up on it.

I will post some numbers when I get everything adjusted and dialed in. For those familiar with the Lex, I put the f113 as the LFE and the Velo as mono sub. I could only find one place to put the f113 (not where I originally planned), so I may end up having to make several changes. I thought about stacking the Fathom an the Velo, but that just doesn't seem right.

Again, Thanks to all

John Schneider

Anybody have the torus review in TAS?

The sub has incredible output (don't understand people with 2-4 of these), with pretty good control.

He he what can I tell you,some have a sickness others ...like me are seriously ill. :p

Good to see you enjoy your sub. :)

I am picking up my JL fathom 13 today and need to know if I can connect one single ended input on the sub to my LFE output on my processor while also connecting the other single ended inputon the sub to my preamp output to use to supplement my front speakers for stereo and home theater listening.

Is there any problems with running different signals for both inputs?


For stereo listening, I turn my processor off but would like to use the sub to supplement my front speakers.

For home theater listening, I would like to use the sub for LFE and to supplement my front speakers.

During home theater listening, my preamp is turned on but is put on passthru and my processor controls the volume.

thanks,

troy

I am picking up my JL fathom 13 today and need to know if I can connect one single ended input on the sub to my LFE output on my processor while also connecting the other single ended inputon the sub to my preamp output to use to supplement my front speakers for stereo and home theater listening.

Is there any problems with running different signals for both inputs?


For stereo listening, I turn my processor off but would like to use the sub to supplement my front speakers.

For home theater listening, I would like to use the sub for LFE and to supplement my front speakers.

During home theater listening, my preamp is turned on but is put on passthru and my processor controls the volume.

thanks,

troy

If you are trying to connect separate inputs to the L & R channels of the JL I think you may run into problems. The left channel is used for mono, so a mono signal to the right channel may not work properly.

The only reason the Left input is labeled "mono" is to give users a clear direction on where to connect a mono signal, even though the right input could be used just as effectively.

The left and right inputs are buffered and then summed to mono, so as long as only one system is used at a time (obvious, I know, but it has to be said) all is well. It won't hurt the sub to play both systems at once, but it will sound bizarre.

There should be no problem with connecting the Fathoms this way as long as you can control the sub's offset level between the two systems with the HT processor. Use the Fathom Level control to set sub level for the 2 channel system (assuming no separate sub level control at the 2-ch preamp) and then use the HT processor to tune the sub's ouput for the HT system.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Thanks. I just picked up my f113 from my dealer today and it is sitting unopened in my car. Can't wait to get home to hook it up. Now I just have to figure out a way to tell my wife that I bought a new sub.

Maybe I can tell her it is her Valentine's present . . .?

troy :)

Thanks. I just picked up my f113 from my dealer today and it is sitting unopened in my car. Can't wait to get home to hook it up. Now I just have to figure out a way to tell my wife that I bought a new sub.

Maybe I can tell her it is her Valentine's present . . .?

troy :)

Naw....tell her the 2nd F113 is her Valentines Day gift!!

Naw....tell her the 2nd F113 is her Valentines Day gift!!

130lbs gift that produces deep bass,very nice gift for a lady. :p

Now I just have to figure out a way to tell my wife that I bought a new sub.




No, just play dumb. "What new sub? We've always had this ol' thing."

No, just play dumb. "What new sub? We've always had this ol' thing."


LMAO...That's exactly what I tell my girl....I need to do that pretty soon if I am going to get a new processor AVM 30 - AVM 50! What it's the same component...babe... I just had to upgraded...Yeah and they gave me a new box!!! :D

The only reason the Left input is labeled "mono" is to give users a clear direction on where to connect a mono signal, even though the right input could be used just as effectively.

The left and right inputs are buffered and then summed to mono, so as long as only one system is used at a time (obvious, I know, but it has to be said) all is well. It won't hurt the sub to play both systems at once, but it will sound bizarre.

There should be no problem with connecting the Fathoms this way as long as you can control the sub's offset level between the two systems with the HT processor. Use the Fathom Level control to set sub level for the 2 channel system (assuming no separate sub level control at the 2-ch preamp) and then use the HT processor to tune the sub's ouput for the HT system.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Thanks for pointing that out. Seems obvious now that you mentioned it. :o

Just got my Fathom 112 to replace a Velodyne DD12, really like the Velodyne but couldn't resist. Quick question for Fathom owners, I hooked up the mic and went to the auto calibration button, the auto calibration button blinks slowly, the manual says that it means that the output level is too low when it blinks slowly. I went to my receiver and knocked up the DB's to the point that my room shakes and then tried to calibrate it again, same thing, a slow blinking light. You can hear it working and going through the test but the light never turns solid green at the end and I know I have it cranked up through my pre-amp. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Turn the gain up on the f112 to maybe 2-3 O'clock (not the receiver). It's explained in the manual.

LMAO...That's exactly what I tell my girl....I need to do that pretty soon if I am going to get a new processor AVM 30 - AVM 50! What it's the same component...babe... I just had to upgraded...Yeah and they gave me a new box!!! :D

I'm a single guy (just?) so I don't have to make excuses... But I'd say "ya know the last one I had went bad so they sent me the new model. Nice isn't it? I love you honey. How about dinner at Downtown Cipriani (http://www.cipriani.com/cipriani/Locs/down3.htm)?"
;)

glennQ

Just got my Fathom 112 to replace a Velodyne DD12, really like the Velodyne but couldn't resist. Quick question for Fathom owners, I hooked up the mic and went to the auto calibration button, the auto calibration button blinks slowly, the manual says that it means that the output level is too low when it blinks slowly. I went to my receiver and knocked up the DB's to the point that my room shakes and then tried to calibrate it again, same thing, a slow blinking light. You can hear it working and going through the test but the light never turns solid green at the end and I know I have it cranked up through my pre-amp. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

The Fathoms self-generate their ARO calibration tones, so your preamp/receiver's controls will have zero effect on the level of these tones. Use the Fathom's level control to get the tone in the right range (make sure the Level mode switch is on "Variable").

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Hello,

Quote:
Just got my Fathom 112 to replace a Velodyne DD12

I would be curious to hear your comparision to the DD12. Do you still have it? I have a DD18 and I am waiting for my 113 to come in.

Thanks,

rmlowz

Hello,

Quote:
Just got my Fathom 112 to replace a Velodyne DD12

I would be curious to hear your comparision to the DD12. Do you still have it? I have a DD18 and I am waiting for my 113 to come in.

Thanks,

rmlowz

Please let us know how the DD12 stacks up to the Fathom 12? I am looking at the DD15 and the Fathom 12 and am wondering the differences.

Steve

The Fathoms self-generate their ARO calibration tones, so your preamp/receiver's controls will have zero effect on the level of these tones. Use the Fathom's level control to get the tone in the right range (make sure the Level mode switch is on "Variable").

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Thank you for your response and could you please elaborate a little further for me......I was under the impression that it is best to bypass the sub and use the processor for setting levels and crossovers, does defeating the ARO's calibration negate the benefit of the calibration when using a processor? If so, the calibration only works when you use the sub and bypass the processor, correct?

I finally got the ARO to work, I had to crank up the Master Volume almost all the way to get the light not to blink slowly, this seemed a little odd to me.

As far as initial impressions/comparisons to the DD12, the reason I was interested in the Fathom was that the Velodynes' eq system kind of drove me nuts, I was never sure whether I got it right and am not that technical nor did I want to play around with it for hours on end. The fathom appealed to me because of the reviews, size and the fact that the eq system was simple. I will reserve my comparison until I am sure I have it dialed in correctly but so far it appears to have more thump and the build quality is as advertised. I am not sure whether it was the right thing for me to upgrade though, as it turns out, the way I had the DD12 seemed just right for my mix of movies and music in a real world environment (formal living room with the family sleeping while I am watching movies most of the time). I do anticipate however, when I get it set up properly, it will blend as seamlessly as the DD12 did with music, right now it is a tad off. The extra impact to me is kind of like owning a fast car, it is nice to have when you need the power but most of the time you don't use it.

My "problem" is that I am always looking for something better, the DD12 didn't quiet fill up the alloted corner my wife overlooks in the family room for a subwoofer so the DD12 always left me curious as to what it would be like to be able to cram a larger subwoofer in that space, the fathom is the perfect arrangement, I get 45 more pounds and it takes up just a little more room.

I guess that at the moment I feel the reality is that the DD12 did the job nicely and was probably perfect for my needs. The fathom is fun to have if I want to knock a picture off the wall and I am hopeful that there is a break-in period that will further improve things. If I can get it to blend with my mains and it improves the subtle strengths of the DD12 just a little, I will consider it a winner, it is too early for me to advise.

Eli, The Fathom's input is not as sensitive as the SVS. Put your subwoofer at +6 dB in your processor, then manually adjust the sub's volume control until you are calibrated to "0" again.

Craig,

I thought that subwoofer volume (raising the DB's) in the processor is mute if you have it in the ARO mode, please explain. Thanks.

Soldonandy,

ARO seeks to measure the subwoofer's in-room response at the primary seat and to correct the dominant response peak so that the overall response is smooth and balanced. Once this is done, you can choose to control and filter the subwoofer using your processor's controls. Simply set the Fathom's Input Mode switch on Reference level and use your processor to dial in the level, crossover, delay, etc. If you want, you can also engage the Fathom's processing features for fine-tuning the system (Polarity, phase, ELF trim, etc.)

Don't worry about the calibration level for the ARO... this only matters during ARO calibration and will vary from room to room or depending on the mic. position. The ARO system simply needs sufficient acoustic level to get the signal above the room's low frequency noise floor in order to ensure a good measurement. Once the ARO has finished calibrating, it stores the corrective filter in non-volatile memory. After ARO calibration, you should go back to Ref. level and follow the rest of the setup guidelines in the manual. Once everything is dialed in, feel free to compare the pre and post ARO sound by using the "ARO defeat" button. Only then can you really hear what the ARO has done to deal with your room's acoustics.

Once you get everything dialed in (which may take some patience and some time), I'm pretty sure the Fathom will reveal all of its attributes on a wide variety of material.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Craig,

I thought that subwoofer volume (raising the DB's) in the processor is mute if you have it in the ARO mode, please explain. Thanks.

The ARO is an eq and does nothing to calibrate the level of the sub. It is all internal to the fathom and you need to adjust the level on the sub to make it loud enough for the calibration to work. The level switch needs to be set to "variable" and then turn up the sub volume until the ARO will run. After ARO has completed, you will have to level match your sub to the rest of the system. You can do this with the level on the sub, your processor, or both. Having the switch in"reference" mode basically locks the sub volume knob at 0 (12:00).

-Eli

Thank you for your response and could you please elaborate a little further for me......I was under the impression that it is best to bypass the sub and use the processor for setting levels and crossovers, does defeating the ARO's calibration negate the benefit of the calibration when using a processor? If so, the calibration only works when you use the sub and bypass the processor, correct?

I finally got the ARO to work, I had to crank up the Master Volume almost all the way to get the light not to blink slowly, this seemed a little odd to me.

As far as initial impressions/comparisons to the DD12, the reason I was interested in the Fathom was that the Velodynes' eq system kind of drove me nuts, I was never sure whether I got it right and am not that technical nor did I want to play around with it for hours on end. The fathom appealed to me because of the reviews, size and the fact that the eq system was simple. I will reserve my comparison until I am sure I have it dialed in correctly but so far it appears to have more thump and the build quality is as advertised. I am not sure whether it was the right thing for me to upgrade though, as it turns out, the way I had the DD12 seemed just right for my mix of movies and music in a real world environment (formal living room with the family sleeping while I am watching movies most of the time). I do anticipate however, when I get it set up properly, it will blend as seamlessly as the DD12 did with music, right now it is a tad off. The extra impact to me is kind of like owning a fast car, it is nice to have when you need the power but most of the time you don't use it.

My "problem" is that I am always looking for something better, the DD12 didn't quiet fill up the alloted corner my wife overlooks in the family room for a subwoofer so the DD12 always left me curious as to what it would be like to be able to cram a larger subwoofer in that space, the fathom is the perfect arrangement, I get 45 more pounds and it takes up just a little more room.

I guess that at the moment I feel the reality is that the DD12 did the job nicely and was probably perfect for my needs. The fathom is fun to have if I want to knock a picture off the wall and I am hopeful that there is a break-in period that will further improve things. If I can get it to blend with my mains and it improves the subtle strengths of the DD12 just a little, I will consider it a winner, it is too early for me to advise.

Your impressions jive with that of other people including myself comparing the Velo DD and JL subs, both excellent choices. I think the JL112 is closer in performance to the DD-15 than the DD-12 but that may be splitting hairs since sound quality wise they are very close. Though a properly equalized DD sub may have a slight edge in sound quality compared to a JL after the ARO adjustment , tough to say.

While the JLs have better output in the ultra deep bass, the DD subs may have a slight advantage in THD and linearity in the mid/high bass because of the servo based on my review of the Audioholics DD-18 4pi tests and the inhouse groundplane JL113 graphs. However, these differences are so slight as to be almost inaudible.

You should have no problem blending the JLs but for tweakability the DD SMS menus offer more options especially with the visual display feature. They are both winners if you ask me as long as they are properly adjusted. :cool:

Thanks for some of the comments. So what do you guys recommend, should I control the volume and set the crossovers on my processor or should I keep it at variable and control everything through the sub? And just to be clear, if I do decide to keep it at variable, does the level that the DB's are set in the processor matter?

The velo dd18 is a very nice sub. I had the pleasure of hearing it and the Axiom EP600 twins at Jakeman's mansion the other day. I had to ask him if he had couch-shakers in place but of course he didn't, it was just the mondo bass from his subs!

soldondaddy
couple of observations and questions
please excuse them if they are way off base
1) can't you utilize the dd set up for the jl?
2) wouldn't there be an advantage to run both subs, reducing overall distortion and allowing for more headroom. Both are evidently very clean and both have above average if not excellent sound quality. that combo might just be the bomb

good luck

soldondaddy
couple of observations and questions
please excuse them if they are way off base
1) can't you utilize the dd set up for the jl?
2) wouldn't there be an advantage to run both subs, reducing overall distortion and allowing for more headroom. Both are evidently very clean and both have above average if not excellent sound quality. that combo might just be the bomb

good luck

1) I wouldn't know how to do this, I am a mess with the whole set up thing, that is why I opted to go from the Velodyne to the JL, so far I got the Velodyne working more easily.
2) I can only get away with one sub

Thanks.

Personally, I'd only use multiples of the identical model sub.
JL Audio's master/slave feature makes it even easier!

glennQ

I agree with Bone212 that if possible you should try blending the DD12 and JL113 using the display on the DD12. I have had much success mixing subs as long as you take care with phase and placement. That is where having a visual FR display comes in handy. Just connect the two subs with a splitter from the pre, pick your crossover and then make adjustments with polarity, phase and parametric filters in the DD12 menu to blend the two subs. It would be a killer duo with the right placement and save a few dollars. :cool:

Thanks for some of the comments. So what do you guys recommend, should I control the volume and set the crossovers on my processor or should I keep it at variable and control everything through the sub? And just to be clear, if I do decide to keep it at variable, does the level that the DB's are set in the processor matter?

The Fathom's Level Mode switch simply defeats the operation of the Fathom's level control and sets it at "0" (12 O'Clock), regardless of the knob's position. In either level mode (Ref or Variable), the pre/pro's level controls will still vary the signal level going into the Fathom and therefore affect the Fathom's output level. Most people using a modern pre/pro will set the Fathom at Ref and use the pre/pro to adjust the level, but you can do it any way you want. Neither way is right or wrong.

If you are looking for the Fathom to match the level of a different sub also playing in the system, you will probably need to set the Fathom on variable to adjust its level relative to the input sensitivity of the other sub and then adjust the global sub level with the pre/pro.

With some careful setup, you could use ARO to optimize the Fathom plus a second and different subwoofer... simply connect the second subwoofer to the Fathom's "output to slave" and defeat all processing on the second subwoofer. You will need to get the two subs level matched during ARO calibration using their individual level controls. You also need a balanced input on the second subwoofer. I HAVE NEVER TRIED THIS, but I don't see why it wouldn't work as long as the second subwoofer isn't a total weenie.

Of course, as GlennQ said... it's always better to run multiple identical Fathoms in Master/Slave as they would have identical sonic signatures and dynamic presentation.

My head hurts now... you guys are always coming up with things that aren't in "the book". ;)

I HAVE NEVER TRIED THIS, but I don't see why it wouldn't work as long as the second subwoofer isn't a total weenie.

My head hurts now... you guys are always coming up with things that aren't in "the book". ;)

The Velo DD12 is far from a total weenie,90% not a weenie.

Yes we always come with strange questions,like the mink oil coating of the sourrounds on JL subs. :p

Thanks for some of the comments. So what do you guys recommend, should I control the volume and set the crossovers on my processor or should I keep it at variable and control everything through the sub? And just to be clear, if I do decide to keep it at variable, does the level that the DB's are set in the processor matter?

In my installation, I can control the cutoff and slope in either my preamp or my SMS-1 and just the cutoff in my sub. I found after trying it all 3 ways, I got better results from controlling it in my sub and MBM. I'd suggest that you try it all 3 ways to find which works best for you as your other components are likely to vary.

GlenQ where can I get an Absolute Sound magazine in the city? I've been to a bunch of Hudson News,and they keep telling me next week,next week!!! I work in midtown,let me know if you have seen them on a local news stand.... And don't slip on any ice :o

djoel

GlenQ where can I get an Absolute Sound magazine in the city? I've been to a bunch of Hudson News,and they keep telling me next week,next week!!! I work in midtown,let me know if you have seen them on a local news stand.... And don't slip on any ice :o

djoel

Humm.. I'm surprised the Hudson News' don't have 'em. I bought my copy at the Barnes & Noble downtown... Maybe check the midtown B&N? :confused:

glennQ

Took home my F113 on Thursday night and I took the day off to play around with it (and some errands) and wanted to share my initial impressions - It is not fully configured for my system since I am waiting for my Berihnger 8000 to arrive, but its close enough for now.

I don't think I've ever heard a sub that actually sounds like you have a drum kit in the room - Not just the sound of a kick drum, but being able to discern various different amplitudes (how hard it is being kicked) between beats and its attack. It is simply astounding.

One of the lowest recorded notes I've found is on Engima's "Cross of Changes", the last track on the album. I never noticed it before, I not only felt and heard D-0 (18.35 hz), but there is another note yet still lower, (?< D-0, C-0 is 16.35 Hz) but could not figure it out - Never mind the note, it was still audible and the house was shaking off the foundation.

Like so many others, I am completely satisfied with the SQ of this sub and don't mind the extra bucks to get so much output from this small box - I can't even imagine two of these in a room (nethomas, where are you?), and my room is just under 4800 cubic feet with a 15' vaulted ceiling. Without a doubt, this is the new King....Until the Gotham is released.

PS.. no complaints from the neighbors, but a police officer did stop by as he was driving through the subdivision - said he heard it from the top of the street... :rolleyes:


Anthem Signature D2
Odyssey Audio Monoblocks
Gr-Research Speakers LS-6 (soon)
Slim Devices Transporter
Pioneer Elite DV-79avi
JL Audio Fathom F113
Samsung 1080p 6767

I'm interested in upgrading my sub to a Fathom, but when I search for a dealer, there aren't any within the 100 mile radius. What do I do?

I'm interested in upgrading my sub to a Fathom, but when I search for a dealer, there aren't any within the 100 mile radius. What do I do?

Get a Velodyne. :D

Just playing around, here. Although a Velo is an excellant choice.

If I were trying to find a Fathom dealer and the website wasn't of any help, I'd call JL and see if they have someone nearby they could recommend.

Has anyone compared the fathom with any of the Earthquake supernova line of subs?

drsimnal,

Sometimes JL Audio mobile dealers can order them for you, especially if they are not on another JL Audio Home dealer territory. I bought mine from a Home dealer and still got 20 percent off the High gloss finish model. But I would hurry...news on these subs are traveling very quickly and I would expect the dealer discounts to shrink over time.

The Dealer told me he has seen a spike in the number of orders over the last month. He also told me that this is the very beginning of what is coming down the line from JL Audio for the home. In two years, they should have a full line from small to floorstanding speakers as well as some electronics.

Humm.. I'm surprised the Hudson News' don't have 'em. I bought my copy at the Barnes & Noble downtown... Maybe check the midtown B&N? :confused:

glennQ

Got it,at B&N just like you said.....I don't know how I didn't think if it.

Thanks

Djoel

Has anyone compared the fathom with any of the Earthquake supernova line of subs?

Not in same leage at all.

Earthquake`s Supernova 15" woofer/PR sub has plenty of output and slam for HT but sound quality and integration is not even close to the f113 when musical performance is factored.

Plus the Fathom f113 extension and ARO leave the Earthuqake in the proverbial dust. Compare the Earthquake with the HSU VTF3HO/Turbo. Not the f113.

The f113's direct competitor sound quality and output wise is the Velo DD18.

Not in same leage at all.

Earthquake`s Supernova 15" woofer/PR sub has plenty of output and slam for HT but sound quality and integration is not even close to the f113 when musical performance is factored.

Plus the Fathom f113 extension and ARO leave the Earthuqake in the proverbial dust. Compare the Earthquake with the HSU VTF3HO/Turbo. Not the f113.

The f113's direct competitor sound quality and output wise is the Velo DD18.


Man! How many times do you have to repeat yourself? I feel sorry for you.

What would it take people to understand that the F113 is the king of subs by far?? :confused: :confused: :confused: :D :D :D

It is rampant with this member throughout these posts! Some people just like to hear themselves talk (or type in this case)!!

:confused: :confused: uhhhhhhhh, I was agreeing with you as I spoke for myself.

:confused: :confused: uhhhhhhhh, I was agreeing with you as I spoke for myself.

i thought you were talking about me. I apologize.

No worries! :)

Has anyone compared the fathom with any of the Earthquake supernova line of subs?

I had a Supernova 12 before the B&W ASW4000 which was before the pair of Fathom F113s.

The Earthquake was a nice sub with loads of output from a relatively small, but somewhat ugly, box. I had the "crackle" finish on it mind you, and not a fancy veneer. For the price, the "crackle" version was good. If I remember correctly, the veneered version of the 15 inch is getting up there in price. I never tried it with 2-channel, just HT.

For the 1500-2000 price point I think the 12 inch Earthquake was competitive. The competition has changed over the last few years though. After hearing an SVS Pb12/2+ recently I'd have to say that if you have the room, consider it also.

Man! How many times do you have to repeat yourself? I feel sorry for you.

What would it take people to understand that the F113 is the king of subs by far?? :confused: :confused: :confused: :D :D :D

You feel sorry,more like irritated to redness.

King of subs by far?! Better than the Earthquake yes,clearly.Yes

Better than a DD18,minute gain.There are better subs I am sure,they are also much larger.

Listen guys. the last time I checked this thread is about the Fathom 113. TheEar evidently owns several subs and has compared them to each other. I guess if he likes the F113 that much it's his business when he talks about it in this F113 thread. I don't know about theEar, but I do know about MY EARS and they like the twin F113s that I own. I have said so many times in this thread and will do so again if I choose too.

Gene

Had the DD15, listen to mostly Jazz. f113 is great. Stanley Clarke never sounded better. No comparison, 113 is tighter, smoother. ARO is very good. It's all about the price points. Aerial SW12 is great, a lot more $$. Revel B15,B30 great a lot more $$. f113 great, reasonably priced.

You feel sorry,more like irritated to redness.

King of subs by far?! Better than the Earthquake yes,clearly.Yes

Better than a DD18,minute gain.There are better subs I am sure,they are also much larger.

How about: king of subs <$3000?

I haven't seen anyone wondering if the watts sub is better.... :D:D:D

Of course there must be others out there but people looking to spend ultra high $$$ don't visit forums asking for advise as far as I remember.

I'm not a sub expert. I had a Definitive Technology Supercube I and upgraded to the f113. All I can say is that I used to have some decent bass. Now it sounds like real dinosaurs stomping through my HT! It's freakishly low, tight, visceral bass. I've never FELT the low frequency effects of a movie before, only heard them. This has added a whole new dimension to my HT experience. Well worth the upgrade.

Room is 21 x 14 x 9. What would be better. One F113, or two F112's?

Room is 21 x 14 x 9. What would be better. One F113, or two F112's?
Can't say for sure as I'm not an expert, but my room is 17x15x8 and the one f113 is all I could ever want and more. I can't imagine someone wanting more output, but obviously there are several guys here that do! :eek: :D

Man! How many times do you have to repeat yourself? I feel sorry for you.

What would it take people to understand that the F113 is the king of subs by far?? :confused: :confused: :confused: :D :D :D

Try the Ignore feature of the Forum. That is of course unless I am already on your Ignore List. In that case, I guess my point is moot. :D

Room is 21 x 14 x 9. What would be better. One F113, or two F112's?

Is your room enclosed? If so, the single F113 would be a very good choice. Duals are recommended by JL's Carl Kennedy as the preferred configuration for HT. Here are his comments:

I feel strongly that no quality system should have fewer than two subwoofers. Yes, clinically speaking the audio range being reproduced cannot be localized by human hearing however, the upper frequencies that often emanate from sympathetic objects close to the subwoofer’s location (furniture, fixtures, art etc.) can be. Beyond that issue, air pressure from a high-output subwoofer is entirely directional (unless facing the wall) and either our FATHOM or GOTHAM products are capable of producing plenty of air pressure. Lastly, there is rarely a room that truly lends itself to quality deep bass characteristics over a broad listening area. This can be greatly enhanced through the careful positioning and implementation of multiple subwoofers. For all these reasons, I generally advise people that whatever your budget may be (for subwoofers), it is for a pair of them.

Aww heck, now I gotta buy another one? :D

Aww heck, now I gotta buy another one? :D


Carl's a marketing guy. :D

I have to say while listing to my F113 over the long weekend, something I never notice before with my old Sunfire Eq signature. The distinction of two different bass notes at the same time.I was hearing some Diana Krall (The girl in the other room) When listing to this what call phenomena....It brings a tear to my eye!

Just wanted to share.....It's an Amazing sub no doubt!

Djoel

Does having the subs that are built into my def tech 7001sc speakers present a problem with the f113? Should they be turned down to allow the f113 to do most of the work?

Thanks
John

Does having the subs that are built into my def tech 7001sc speakers present a problem with the f113? Should they be turned down to allow the f113 to do most of the work?

Thanks
John

I am in the process of getting some DT Mythos st,as you know they are powered as well,and was thinking of this same situation.I am just going to put the Mythos to small on my pro/pre. and let the F113 do all the heavy lifting!

Oh and have the crossover around 80hz or so!

Djoel

I am in the process of getting some DT Mythos st,as you know they are powered as well,and was thinking of this same situation.I am just going to put the Mythos to small on my pro/pre. and let the F113 do all the heavy lifting!

Oh and have the crossover around 80hz or so!

Djoel

That is the way,with larger definitive speakers you simply cut the mains lower.Setting the crossover point around 60Hz,or even 50. Let the real subwoofer do its thing.

Now that I found that manually correcting the subwoofer distance in ypao from 23ft to 13ft actually screwed with the phase enough to kill the bass I expect just one f113 will be plenty.

In case anyone has this happen try setting the phase to reverse and see if it makes a big difference. It was dumb luck in my part that I found it.

That is the way,with larger definitive speakers you simply cut the mains lower.Setting the crossover point around 60Hz,or even 50. Let the real subwoofer do its thing.

Hey Ear you're wanted over here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9829857&&#post9829857

:D

I noticed there is a jl 113 on *bay

I noticed there is a jl 113 on *bay

He's looking for way too much money considering that there would be no warrantee support.

Hey Ear you're wanted over here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9829857&&#post9829857

:D

Bored,again! Nothing better to do!!

No sorry no Def tech anytime soon,my local close by is dropped Definitive.The store is no longer a Definitive dealer.They sell Canton mostly now. I am not going to go out of my way to order online,have other priorities now(Gotham,TheBeast).

And again your contribution to this thread amazes me! Do you even own a JL Audio sub? Do not try to make this ugly like the last time.I will use the classy IGNORE feature buddy.

Have a nice and productive day.

I was talking about this item number 300082629472 for sale on the auction

Ah ha. There are two f113's on ebay. The one you are referring to is in the UK.

Now that I found that manually correcting the subwoofer distance in ypao from 23ft to 13ft actually screwed with the phase enough to kill the bass I expect just one f113 will be plenty.

In case anyone has this happen try setting the phase to reverse and see if it makes a big difference. It was dumb luck in my part that I found it....with phase, crossover points or speaker size...do these manually by your own ear...

I was listening to music a day after setting the levels with YPAO and i could'nt understand why the bass sounded slower than normal...it was a difference that was noticeable...low and behold, a check of the YPAO settings revealed reverse phase on the subwoofer...no wonder!

I was talking about this item number 300082629472 for sale on the auction

That's a great price, but the seller has a rating of 0. I would be very, very wary of this one. Brand new ID too. Looks like he only has shipping for the UK too.

Haven't had as much time to listen as I had hoped, but I did (re)watch several movies Monday. I have only spent a short time positioning the Fathom and getting the level in the right general area (did have to change some settings on the Lex).

WOW!! :D :D :D

Everything is different now.

Never really noticed any "serious" bass in HPII (Chamber of Secrets), but it's fairly impressive in several scenes, particularly from the cave in to the end of the fight with the Basilisk (sp?). Then watched a movie that I have always liked - my wife actually suggested it - Brotherhood of the Wolf. It's a different experience.

I think I'll have to rewatch everything I have (400+ titles :D ).

If the weather holds for Friday (rain), I'll have a good excuse to set some levels correctly.

Truly a remarkable sub.

that Fathom F113 on Ebay is a FRAUD!! Do not bid. He copied the listing exactly from my friends auction that closed in December. It has been reported to Ebay.

Haven't had as much time to listen as I had hoped, but I did (re)watch several movies Monday. I have only spent a short time positioning the Fathom and getting the level in the right general area (did have to change some settings on the Lex).

WOW!! :D :D :D

Everything is different now.

Never really noticed any "serious" bass in HPII (Chamber of Secrets), but it's fairly impressive in several scenes, particularly from the cave in to the end of the fight with the Basilisk (sp?). Then watched a movie that I have always liked - my wife actually suggested it - Brotherhood of the Wolf. It's a different experience.

I think I'll have to rewatch everything I have (400+ titles :D ).

If the weather holds for Friday (rain), I'll have a good excuse to set some levels correctly.

Truly a remarkable sub.

Hello John I am just curious what was your sub prior to F113. I hear what you saying, it's pretty impressive sub.

Djoel

Hello John I am just curious what was your sub prior to F113. I hear what you saying, it's pretty impressive sub.

Djoel
I was using, and still am, a Velodyne F1500R. I don't remember the exact specs on it, but when I bought it many years ago, thought it was a pretty impressive sub. Filled the room with good bass - fast, musical, yet still able to do the HT thing when it came along (had this long before DVD's came out - heck, laserdisks were the only option back then). I was happy for many years, but knew that subs have to have made some improvements.

I run stereo subs through my Lex MC-12v4, and have flexibility between this and the controls on the Fathom, plus the ARO.

Plan is to rerun the room EQ on the Lex, then the ARO. I'll check FR curves afterwards and see if I'm in the right ball park. Hope to have time Friday afternoon.

I was using, and still am, a Velodyne F1500R. I don't remember the exact specs on it, but when I bought it many years ago, thought it was a pretty impressive sub. Filled the room with good bass - fast, musical, yet still able to do the HT thing when it came along (had this long before DVD's came out - heck, laserdisks were the only option back then). I was happy for many years, but knew that subs have to have made some improvements.

I run stereo subs through my Lex MC-12v4, and have flexibility between this and the controls on the Fathom, plus the ARO.

Plan is to rerun the room EQ on the Lex, then the ARO. I'll check FR curves afterwards and see if I'm in the right ball park. Hope to have time Friday afternoon.


Yes I remember that particular model very well ,I am not sure if I heard it or not but recall reading up on it,or any Velodyne sub review I can get my hands on.

So you use the Lex eq, and the ARO as well!, I've been thinking if it's ideal to the use a SM 1? (I think that's the Velodyne Eq model name) for more control of any anomalies in my room,but like you I need to tweak a bit more ,and like you I need some time,without any interruptions!

Lets pray for rain :rolleyes: !!
Good luck

Djoel

So you use the Lex eq, and the ARO as well!, I've been thinking if it's ideal to the use a SM 1? (I think that's the Velodyne Eq model name) for more control of any anomalies in my room...

Please see my thread related to this very subject:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=809299

Thanks Craig,Keep us posted!

Djoel

Well now there are two Fathoms on audiogon for sale, a F112 and F113.
And I believe they are both from around these parts!

Djoel

Sox,

2 subs are more flexible IMHO regarding placement. I prefer "alternate walls" ie: front and side for effects while watching movies. It also depends on your seating layout as well.

However 1 x F113 should fill the bill strickly for SPL.

Now if your processor can address a 5.2 or 7.2 setup with separate level and LFE crossover freq. then 2 would really be cool.

Finally ran the Lex EQ and checked some levels using the RS analog meter and Alan Parson's sound check CD.

I think I need to reposition the velo back to the corner, then start again. I have a massive dip in the 50-65 Hz region - go figure.

Current locations of Fathom and Velo give me about a 5-8 db boost at 20 and 25 Hz. The 3 levels of auto EQ (after running the EQ program) help at some of the frequencies, but not in the area of the dip. I figure the ARO won't help. Gonna have to move some furniture, move the sub (or subs), and rerun the EQ.

Rats!!! :mad:

May even have to change the crossovers.

Is it a waste of time trying to get big hit you in the chest bass if the room cannot be sealed from the rest of your house ?

I have the def tech 7001 mains and the 3000 center all have subs and was going to just add one f113 in the rear corner.

The room itself is 12 x 20 x 8 but the back wall is completely open to the first level which in total is 5100 cubic ft. To add to that the stairs are open so do I have to try and fill the entire 2nd level 2 which would prob add another 1000 or so even with all the doors closed upstairs.


Would adding one of those fancy foldable 4 pane partitions help keep the bass in the room or does it need to actually be sealed off?

Thanks guys, learning alot.

Is it a waste of time trying to get big hit you in the chest bass if the room cannot be sealed from the rest of your house ?

I have the def tech 7001 mains and the 3000 center all have subs and was going to just add one f113 in the rear corner.

The room itself is 12 x 20 x 8 but the back wall is completely open to the first level which in total is 5100 cubic ft. To add to that the stairs are open so do I have to try and fill the entire 2nd level 2 which would prob add another 1000 or so even with all the doors closed upstairs.


Would adding one of those fancy foldable 4 pane partitions help keep the bass in the room or does it need to actually be sealed off?

Thanks guys, learning alot.

So far my experience with bass in very large rooms(semi open spaces) is as follows...

One is to position the sub close to you,this way even outdoors you would get proper SPL(taking for granted the sub has potential,f113 has plenty of).

Sitting in a room(open)space with no wall behind,say mid point(or close)of this said space you will almost all the time be fighting to get enough bass.Even with very capable subs.Sit 3/4 in the room(space),there bass should be even. My subs I almost always position in front, 1-2ft from the front(to me) wall.Sofa against the wall is a great ticket for uneven and peaky bass,listening more to the room itself.

My two cents

Well now there are two Fathoms on audiogon for sale, a F112 and F113.
And I believe they are both from around these parts!

DjoelYes I am the one that is selling the f113.I'm totally legit.I'm only selling because I only needed one.I will say this sub is incredlble

Is it a waste of time trying to get big hit you in the chest bass if the room cannot be sealed from the rest of your house ?

I have the def tech 7001 mains and the 3000 center all have subs and was going to just add one f113 in the rear corner.

The room itself is 12 x 20 x 8 but the back wall is completely open to the first level which in total is 5100 cubic ft. To add to that the stairs are open so do I have to try and fill the entire 2nd level 2 which would prob add another 1000 or so even with all the doors closed upstairs.


Would adding one of those fancy foldable 4 pane partitions help keep the bass in the room or does it need to actually be sealed off?

Thanks guys, learning alot.

Depnds on your room. My HGS-18 fills the room with bass. Vaulted ceiling to 9' ceing, open at top of vaulted, and rear wall.

...Would adding one of those fancy foldable 4 pane partitions help keep the bass in the room or does it need to actually be sealed off?

Thanks guys, learning alot.

I think those partitions are too flimsy and flexible to do much good. You need something fairly rigid to accomplish what you want.

Is it a waste of time trying to get big hit you in the chest bass if the room cannot be sealed from the rest of your house ?

I have the def tech 7001 mains and the 3000 center all have subs and was going to just add one f113 in the rear corner.

The room itself is 12 x 20 x 8 but the back wall is completely open to the first level which in total is 5100 cubic ft. To add to that the stairs are open so do I have to try and fill the entire 2nd level 2 which would prob add another 1000 or so even with all the doors closed upstairs.


Would adding one of those fancy foldable 4 pane partitions help keep the bass in the room or does it need to actually be sealed off?

Thanks guys, learning alot.

This depends on what you mean by “hit you in the chest” bass. Impact bass is attainable in almost all reasonable spaces. True room pressurization requires an enclosed space and the appropriate SPL to fill it. Most here do not have rooms that have been built for or retrofitted to optimize sound. I have an open floor plan house and my system is located in an impossibly large 8000 ft³ room that is open to even larger spaces. I have tried many sub combinations (including dual Velo DD-18's) and currently have dual JL F113’s placed within 10’ of my primary seats. These subs integrate nicely into the room and give a very satisfying level of bass for music and movies (my use is 50/50). I know that in this room, I will never get the same bass effects that someone who has a sealed 2000 ft³ space can achieve.

Rob is right as usual. ;)

My 3500cf HT used to open to another 8500cf space and pressurizing the room was impossible even with 2 subs. Nearfield listening helped but I didn't like the improper phaseing the subs caused when they were too far from the mains. Once I sealed off a 8ft opening and then damped the room with acoustical treatments and traps, there was a major improvement in SQ not just to the bass.

I've had as many as 5 subs in the HT but currently I'm expereincing substantial amounts of clean, dynamic, visceral, "in your chest and pants" bass with a pair of non-colocated DD-18 and EP600 subs. According to conventional wisdom matching sealed and ported subs should cause other issues, but I haven't detected any audible or measurable problems in my room.

Yes I am the one that is selling the f113.I'm totally legit.I'm only selling because I only needed one.I will say this sub is incredlble

Believe me if I had the cash I would have jump on that F113 :( ....But it's more than want not a need...

Good luck..

djoel

Rob is right as usual. ;)

My 3500cf HT used to open to another 8500cf space and pressurizing the room was impossible even with 2 subs. Nearfield listening helped but I didn't like the improper phaseing the subs caused when they were too far from the mains. Once I sealed off a 8ft opening and then damped the room with acoustical treatments and traps, there was a major improvement in SQ not just to the bass.

I've had as many as 5 subs in the HT but currently I'm expereincing substantial amounts of clean, dynamic, visceral, "in your chest and pants" bass with a pair of non-colocated DD-18 and EP600 subs. According to conventional wisdom matching sealed and ported subs should cause other issues, but I haven't detected any audible or measurable problems in my room.
I am thinking of trying this same thing with my F112 and my Earthquake Supernova MKV-15, (well actually the Earthquake sub uses a PR instead of ports, but it's still a reflex and a sealed sub combo). Actually, I'm thinking of getting a second F112 and selling the Earthquake sub. In the meantime, I may try the combo to see how I like it.

Craig

I am thinking of trying this same thing with my F112 and my Earthquake Supernova MKV-15, (well actually the Earthquake sub uses a PR instead of ports, but it's still a reflex and a sealed sub combo). Actually, I'm thinking of getting a second F112 and selling the Earthquake sub. In the meantime, I may try the combo to see how I like it.

Craig
The twin F113 club is growing! :D

I am thinking of trying this same thing with my F112 and my Earthquake Supernova MKV-15, (well actually the Earthquake sub uses a PR instead of ports, but it's still a reflex and a sealed sub combo). Actually, I'm thinking of getting a second F112 and selling the Earthquake sub. In the meantime, I may try the combo to see how I like it.

Craig

I have similar setup; Just got my f113 3 days ago and also own an Earthquake Supernova MKV-12. I'm also contemplating selling my earthquake and going with twin f113s.. let me know how you like your f112 + MKV-15 combo

Rob is right as usual. ;)

My 3500cf HT used to open to another 8500cf space and pressurizing the room was impossible even with 2 subs. Nearfield listening helped but I didn't like the improper phaseing the subs caused when they were too far from the mains. Once I sealed off a 8ft opening and then damped the room with acoustical treatments and traps, there was a major improvement in SQ not just to the bass.

I've had as many as 5 subs in the HT but currently I'm expereincing substantial amounts of clean, dynamic, visceral, "in your chest and pants" bass with a pair of non-colocated DD-18 and EP600 subs. According to conventional wisdom matching sealed and ported subs should cause other issues, but I haven't detected any audible or measurable problems in my room.

jakeman
Looks like you have found a sub combo that's working. Are you able to pressurize your room with your current setup? How many EP600's are you running with your twin DD-18's?

I am heavily leaning towards the f 113 over the dd 18 but does anyone have a problem with thinking the dd 18 has to be better just due to shear size? I know the f113 has more travel but it just sounds to good to be true :)

The only advantage the DD-18 has over the JL is the onboard SMS the Velo has. Performance wise, the JL is KING!

I have similar setup; Just got my f113 3 days ago and also own an Earthquake Supernova MKV-12. I'm also contemplating selling my earthquake and going with twin f113s.. let me know how you like your f112 + MKV-15 combo
Well, I tried it and I'm back to the single F112. It sounded boomier and sloppier with the two together. It also measured badly with the SMS-1 and I couldn't correct it due to the fact that I was controlling both subs with one SMS-1. I couldn't get the combined response to be flat.

How do you use the ARO with dual F112's? Do you do each one individually, or just use the Master ARO for both? After my experience with the F112/Earthquake, I'm a little concerned that one or even two bands of parametric EQ can do as good a job with two subs.
The only advantage the DD-18 has over the JL is the onboard SMS the Velo has. Performance wise, the JL is KING!
Notwithstanding my concern above, I'm not sure I would agree that the Velo's onboard EQ is all that much better than ARO. In my thread (http://http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=809299) from the other day, I showed how well the ARO flattened my room response -- and it did it quicker than a manual eq with the SMS-1.

Craig

How do you use the ARO with dual F112's? Do you do each one individually, or just use the Master ARO for both? After my experience with the F112/Earthquake, I'm a little concerned that one or even two bands of parametric EQ can do as good a job with two subs.Craig

Hi Craig,

Of course not all rooms give the same results. JL recommends using Master/Slave when using multiple Fathoms. You make all of you settings and run the ARO from the Master sub. If they are co-located then your single sub FR should be very similar with two, but give you another 6db output. I have my dual F113's separated by about 9' along the front wall just inside my mains. I have a room generated peak at 60hz that ARO won't touch that I am hoping to tame with an SMS-1. Want to sell yours? ;)

I am heavily leaning towards the f 113 over the dd 18 but does anyone have a problem with thinking the dd 18 has to be better just due to shear size? I know the f113 has more travel but it just sounds to good to be true :)

Sheer size here means ...next to nothing. Why?

The JL Audio 13.5" driver can move more air,linear or pear to peak than the DD18 18" woofer. More displacement for the f113.

The overall quality of the JL is better also,built quality here. Like it or not Audioholics was very gracious and easy on Velodyne to give a five star rating for built. Five star is perfect or close,did the author ever see what a five star built sub is???? The box looks great from the outside,on the inside nothing special,yeah yeah does the job bur no attention to detail is present.Look in the JL,another class,look in Aerial Acoustics sub...again this is five star built quality. Take apart a JL,Aerial and Velodyne.


JL all the way

The only advantage the DD-18 has over the JL is the onboard SMS the Velo has. Performance wise, the JL is KING!

I didn't come out that way. I took a long hard look at both those subs before buying the DD-18 and price was not an issue. The FL113 has more output at 20hz but that comes with more THD. Setting the servo setting at 8 results in lower distortion than any sub I have every researched including the JL113. If one wants more output then lowering the servo does that and also causes more THD. It is still quite low by any standard. Linearity is very close but here again I believe the DD has slightly better performance across the entire band.

I have to say though that these differences are so slight as not to be audibly different when you compare the two subs. I have to cut response at 20hz with the DD at my sidewall placement so the higher output there is not a factor for me.

My suggestion is that the sonic characteristics of these subs are so close that you should let size or need for more sophisticated equalization determine which way you go.

jakeman
Looks like you have found a sub combo that's working. Are you able to pressurize your room with your current setup? How many EP600's are you running with your twin DD-18's?

At one time I had an Ultra, a pair of EP500s and a pair of EP600s in the HT. Until last week, I had a pair of ep600s and the dd18 but just sold an ep600. The Velo and Axiom work very well together, with the velo mid right sidewall and the axiom on the mid left sidewall. The subs pressurize the room nicely. I had The Bogg (Asher) for a demo a few weeks ago and there was no lack of chest thumping and pants flapping which only comes from a good sealed room and powerful articulate linear subs.

The subs are crossed at 100hz to 7 Totem Model One monitors. The DD-18 comes with SMS on board and I also have an outboard SMS which I use with the EP600. At those placements I actually need minimal equalization owing to the very linear response of both those subs. My main focus was dialling in phase between the subs and with the mains which took some time and listening. Not having the phase right can cause many other problems.

I took a picture of FR which I can post but its in my camera back home and I am currently skiing at Telluride, Colorado. :D FR is quite flat from 10hz to 200hz.

Without telling me every ridiculously low price paid...what is a reasonable best street price for the F113? I want to buy one but want to be educated.

Thanks.

Looking for advice for replacing my B&W ASW 2500 sub. I have an all Thiel system (except sub) in an 18 x 22 theater. I listened to the JL Audio f112 (no f113 available) and will be listening to the Thiel SS2 and REL B2 at a different dealer (with different speakers). Anyone have thoughts regarding f113 vs. REL vs. Thiel for my situation? Unfortunately, I won't be able to do a direct comparison since no one dealer has both the Thiel and JL subs.

Without telling me every ridiculously low price paid...what is a reasonable best street price for the F113? I want to buy one but want to be educated.

Thanks.

I called a local dealer and they wanted $3,300. I drove an hour away and picked mine up for $2,449 + tax, gloss finish. I'm not sure what others have paid.

Looking for advice for replacing my B&W ASW 2500 sub. I have an all Thiel system (except sub) in an 18 x 22 theater. I listened to the JL Audio f112 (no f113 available) and will be listening to the Thiel SS2 and REL B2 at a different dealer (with different speakers). Anyone have thoughts regarding f113 vs. REL vs. Thiel for my situation? Unfortunately, I won't be able to do a direct comparison since no one dealer has both the Thiel and JL subs.

Nothing can touch the F113 in my opinion.

expect, on average, 10-15% off. There are many people claiming they get more money off, or you should expect to get more money off the retail, but put yourself in the dealers shoes. Don't expect them to fall all over themselves just to save you money, its how they keep the lights on. That being said, it never hurts to shop around!

Hello,

I just got my f113 connected and tuned in with my SMS1. I have to agree with Jakeman my DD18 is marginally better in my room. Don't get me wrong I think for the money without spending more on the DD18 the f113 is the way to go. I have my DD18 in the marketplace, I am going to pull it and think this one out before I sell. It is amazing how they get a sub to produce great bass with such a small enclosure. I also have a DTS 20 and the Klipsch Ultra subs the Klipsch subs are a very close second. The DTS 20 it is understandably in a whole different league. My opinion on what I heard in my theater.

rmlowz

Hello,

I just got my f113 connected and tuned in with my SMS1. I have to agree with Jakeman my DD18 is marginally better in my room. Don't get me wrong I think for the money without spending more on the DD18 the f113 is the way to go. I have my DD18 in the marketplace, I am going to pull it and think this one out before I sell. It is amazing how they get a sub to produce great bass with such a small enclosure. I also have a DTS 20 and the Klipsch Ultra subs the Klipsch subs are a very close second. the DTS 20 it is understandably in a whole different league. My opinion on what I heard in my theater.

rmlowz

Did you try the ARO, instead of the SMS-1? I recently posted a thread (http://http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=809299) about my experience with an F112 and ARO with the SMS-1. I was surprised how well the ARO worked, and it was easier than the SMS-1's manual EQ.

Craig

Hello,


I will try the ARO next without the SMS1. I am so used to the SMS1, I just took it out of the box and connected it to the SMS1 and started calibrating.

rmlowz

rmlows. Life's hard when you have both a DD-18 and a JL113 in your room. :D ;) Dual subs always perform better than any one sub and you have one of the killer duals. I am actually thinking through whether to move the ep600 to my TV room and buy either a JL113 or another DD-18. These subs are so close sonically they would probably blend very well.

Can somebody explain to me the reasoning for pairing two dissimilar subs?

I read a white paper, a while back, that went into all the reason NOT to mix subs. I don't recall them all but the one that "stuck" was that because of the differences in frequency response the result was reinforcement on those frequencies both subs reproduced (or reproduced louder) and not on the ones that were more prevalent in one or the other sub.

Apparently a new discovery has been made and I am not aware of it.

Hello,

It is just a hobby for me not a new discovery . My room is 15.5 wide x 18 deep x 8 foot high ceilings. I really only need one sub, but its this forum and my interest in always trying to find something better that makes me get different systems. I change out often. When I buy buying 2 of the same does not make sense to me. I will say though 2 subs of any manufacture sounds much better in my room it is not even marginal it makes a big difference. My two cents.

rmlowz

Hello,

I just got my f113 connected and tuned in with my SMS1. I have to agree with Jakeman my DD18 is marginally better in my room. Don't get me wrong I think for the money without spending more on the DD18 the f113 is the way to go. I have my DD18 in the marketplace, I am going to pull it and think this one out before I sell. It is amazing how they get a sub to produce great bass with such a small enclosure. I also have a DTS 20 and the Klipsch Ultra subs the Klipsch subs are a very close second. The DTS 20 it is understandably in a whole different league. My opinion on what I heard in my theater.

rmlowz

I struggled with that same decision (DD-18 vs F113).
That is quite a collection of subwoofers, do you have any pictures you can post? I would like to see how you have those placed in your room.

Can somebody explain to me the reasoning for pairing two dissimilar subs?

I read a white paper, a while back, that went into all the reason NOT to mix subs. I don't recall them all but the one that "stuck" was that because of the differences in frequency response the result was reinforcement on those frequencies both subs reproduced (or reproduced louder) and not on the ones that were more prevalent in one or the other sub.

Apparently a new discovery has been made and I am not aware of it.

Good question. I am about to buy a F113 to replace my ACI Maestro but now I am wondering if I should ADD the F113 to the mix.

Hopefully someone can elaborate.

Hello,


Quote:
I struggled with that same decision (DD-18 vs F113).
That is quite a collection of subwoofers, do you have any pictures you can post? I would like to see how you have those placed in your room.

I don't have any pictures, but I need to because you would not believe how lucky I got placing the DTS20 under- behind the screen in a cove. It looks custom! The Klipsch are placed on both side of the center channel and the DD18 mid point on one wall and the f113 mid point on the opposite wall. I only have 2 on at a time.

rmlowz

Hello,


Quote:
I struggled with that same decision (DD-18 vs F113).
That is quite a collection of subwoofers, do you have any pictures you can post? I would like to see how you have those placed in your room.

I don't have any pictures, but I need to because you would not believe how lucky I got placing the DTS20 under- behind the screen in a cove. It looks custom! The Klipsch are placed on both side of the center channel and the DD18 mid point on one wall and the f113 mid point on the opposite wall. I only have 2 on at a time.

rmlowz

I would like to see pictures of that setup. You show amazing restraint, I would have had to fire them all up at least one time just to see what would happen:D.