Thank you for posting that photo. Kudo's to Mr. Smith for providing.
It's on my desktop now and will be on the HT screen shortly. Yes, Kudos to Mr. Smith.

If you can talk below 40Hz at 100dB @1M, I would be interested in recording your voice too and may actually start listening to all the babble. But it appears you are 165Hz or over and you get pretty loud here and that annoys people like me. .

Oh, I see. That makes sense.

I am so glad you agree that yours is 165Hz and over (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_frequency).

Which among the following (http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/Animal_Alternatives/bark.html) best matches your issue?

1. separation anxiety
2. territorial aggression (including alarm barking)
3. fear-related aggression (phobias)
4. social facilitation
5. attention-seeking (including boredom)
6. compulsive disorder
7. cognitive dysfunction
8. medical problems

It appears to me that it is all of the above.

2 Fathoms = 260 lbs.
What in the Gotham cabinet is expected to make it 140lbs heavier than 2 Fathoms?

"Not to be outdone by Velodyne's SMS-1, JL Audio announced today that they will be including an actual audio engineer inside every Gotham sub purchased to ensure proper in-room calibration and total customer satisfaction. Company representatives said they felt the extra weight was warranted, although selecting the right people at 140 lbs proved more difficult than first expected. After engineer removal, compartment may be filled with sand or lead shot. The instruction manual warns, however, not to fill engineer with lead shot.

The move drew harsh criticism from competitors in the home audio field, with many claiming a violation of TSA regulations.

The Gotham will be available soon direct from JL via overnight air freight. For best results, JL recommends unpacking the subwoofer the day it is delivered."

So the Gotham will be one heavy sub then..

"Not to be outdone by Velodyne's SMS-1, JL Audio announced today that they will be including an actual audio engineer inside every Gotham sub purchased to ensure proper in-room calibration and total customer satisfaction. Company representatives said they felt the extra weight was warranted, although selecting the right people at 140 lbs proved more difficult than first expected. After engineer removal, compartment may be filled with sand or lead shot. The instruction manual warns, however, not to fill engineer with lead shot.

The move drew harsh criticism from competitors in the home audio field, with many claiming a violation of TSA regulations.

The Gotham will be available soon direct from JL via overnight air freight. For best results, JL recommends unpacking the subwoofer the day it is delivered."

LOL... I guess that rules out a sealed cabinet. :)

The f113 has both rca and xlr inputs as we already know.
If two cables with rca and xlr respectively were used for the inputs, and at any time
if there is a signal only on one of the input cables, then I assume the f113 will simply playback the signal in the active input. Will it? Or does it require for one to be used and the other to be an open circuit and not just inactive?
What would happen if there are active signals in both inputs? Would they be summed internally?

Now why would someone use both inputs? Here is an application I am thinking.
Currently, dual f113s are placed on either side, close to the FL and FR speakers. The .1 LFE is split as dual mono out of the EQ (Rane PE-17) and fed to each of the f113s. When I listen to stereo music, I take the subs entirely out of the equation and the output from the DACs goes into a tube pre-amp (that switches between HT FL and FR inputs from the pre-amp and CD stereo. I built a HT pass thru in it for unity gain) and then to the amps. My mains go down to about 25Hz but absolutely is no match to the f113 in LFE. If I want to augment the f113 to the mains, I can simply do a regular 2.1 like in a receiver, but I don't want to go into the digital domain obviously because I like to keep the signal for CD music as clean as possible and also I prefer the DACs on the CD player as opposed to the Anthem pre. Let's say, I build/buy an external active crossover like a Marchand XM9L (http://www.marchandelec.com/xm9.html), I can have a bypass switch built into it, to bypass the crossover or use the crossover. When the crossover is used, it will split the input FL and FR into High FL and FR and low FL and FR around a symmetric 24dB/Octave point. Now I can seamlessly blend each f113 to each FL and FR main and have stereo bass for music. Now the low pass outputs from the marchand have to go to the f113s second input and hence 2 cables running to the f113. For EQ, I can use ARO single band instead of the Rane PE-17. Of course, I have to recalibrate with ARO for HT in conjunction with the Rane.
This setup would require that I switch to bypass Xover mode while listening to HT because otherwise both inputs in the f113 would be active. The thought came up, if such a thing were to happen, would the f113 handle both active inputs? If it could, then, the FL and FR would also essentially translate to full range assuming that nothing will be lost in internal summing which in this case is a lot less intrusive with only an .1 LFE and either FL or FR to sum rather than .1 LFE and FL and FR (3 signals to sum)
Why all this trouble? Well for CD music, I want to keep everything in the analog domain. Also, rather than getting much more expensive full-range speakers, a decent speaker augmented with an f113 each can deliver astonishing stereo music. Alternatively, I could set FL and FR to large and .1 to None in the pre-amp but this comes with a lot of other compromises, too detailed to elaborate here.
Thoughts?

It actually looks like the production Gotham will exceed 400 lbs. :o

Not sure whether to be proud of that fact, but I can tell you that the cabinet does not have any resonance problems. :cool:

I should have exact figures in a week and we will update the website info.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.


400lbs... :p Not a problem I over a ton and a half of audio gear at home.Under 200kg more...no sweat. Hoping the building holds. ;)

Now this news is good.The Gotham nearing release.... :D I will have to take a day off for the Gotham day.

You guys have only three subs so far in the lineup but all are top contenders and true works of industrial art.

Keep us posted Manville. The Gotham is sold,I just want to drool before buying...like with the Fathoms.

The f113 has both rca and xlr inputs as we already know.
If two cables with rca and xlr respectively were used for the inputs, and at any time
if there is a signal only on one of the input cables, then I assume the f113 will simply playback the signal in the active input. Will it? Or does it require for one to be used and the other to be an open circuit and not just inactive?
What would happen if there are active signals in both inputs? Would they be summed internally?

Now why would someone use both inputs? Here is an application I am thinking.
Currently, dual f113s are placed on either side, close to the FL and FR speakers. The .1 LFE is split as dual mono out of the EQ (Rane PE-17) and fed to each of the f113s. When I listen to stereo music, I take the subs entirely out of the equation and the output from the DACs goes into a tube pre-amp (that switches between HT FL and FR inputs from the pre-amp and CD stereo. I built a HT pass thru in it for unity gain) and then to the amps. My mains go down to about 25Hz but absolutely is no match to the f113 in LFE. If I want to augment the f113 to the mains, I can simply do a regular 2.1 like in a receiver, but I don't want to go into the digital domain obviously because I like to keep the signal for CD music as clean as possible and also I prefer the DACs on the CD player as opposed to the Anthem pre. Let's say, I build/buy an external active crossover like a Marchand XM9L (http://www.marchandelec.com/xm9.html), I can have a bypass switch built into it, to bypass the crossover or use the crossover. When the crossover is used, it will split the input FL and FR into High FL and FR and low FL and FR around a symmetric 24dB/Octave point. Now I can seamlessly blend each f113 to each FL and FR main and have stereo bass for music. Now the low pass outputs from the marchand have to go to the f113s second input and hence 2 cables running to the f113. For EQ, I can use ARO single band instead of the Rane PE-17. Of course, I have to recalibrate with ARO for HT in conjunction with the Rane.
This setup would require that I switch to bypass Xover mode while listening to HT because otherwise both inputs in the f113 would be active. The thought came up, if such a thing were to happen, would the f113 handle both active inputs? If it could, then, the FL and FR would also essentially translate to full range assuming that nothing will be lost in internal summing which in this case is a lot less intrusive with only an .1 LFE and either FL or FR to sum rather than .1 LFE and FL and FR (3 signals to sum)
Why all this trouble? Well for CD music, I want to keep everything in the analog domain. Also, rather than getting much more expensive full-range speakers, a decent speaker augmented with an f113 each can deliver astonishing stereo music. Alternatively, I could set FL and FR to large and .1 to None in the pre-amp but this comes with a lot of other compromises, too detailed to elaborate here.
Thoughts?
Guys,
I will make this very short. If both inputs of the f113 are connected to the front-end (pre-amp/EQ etc) and only one signal is active at a time, will the sub choose the active one and play it back flawlessly?
What if both inputs are active? Will it sum it internally?
I tried to address probable questions that may rise and hence my previous post became a long long story.

Yes. The inputs are isolated from each other and always active. The sub doesn't so much "choose" an input.... it simply plays whatever is present at its inputs.

In theory you could run four different mono sources (two bal. and two unbal.) into the subwoofer or two different stereo sources (bal and unbal.) or one stereo and two mono. If you play more than one source at a time the signals will sum but there will be no damage to the sub or the source units... it will just be a cacophony of low frequency information.

Yes. The inputs are isolated from each other and always active. The sub doesn't so much "choose" an input.... it simply plays whatever is present at its inputs.

In theory you could run four different mono sources (two bal. and two unbal.) into the subwoofer or two different stereo sources (bal and unbal.) or one stereo and two mono. If you play more than one source at a time the signals will sum but there will be no damage to the sub or the source units... it will just be a cacophony of low frequency information.
It says "Right only" next to the red rca in whereas next to the left it says mono.
So I think, the "only" in "right only" is not to be taken literally? In other words, I could send the LFE to the right input and be just fine and it would be the same as plugging it into left RCA?
Thanks.

Yup... we just marked one of them as the mono input so that people wouldn't ask which one to use. In practice, it doesn't matter which one you connect to.

Yup... we just marked one of them as the mono input so that people wouldn't ask which one to use. In practice, it doesn't matter which one you connect to.
Thanks a lot!

Where can one buy a Fathom online? As the so called dealers in my area don't carry one. Does J.L sell direct? If not, any suggestions on a reputable internet dealer. Thanks,

Where can one buy a Fathom online? As the so called dealers in my area don't carry one. Does J.L sell direct? If not, any suggestions on a reputable internet dealer. Thanks,
Send a note to Mr. Smith. He sure will help you out. Don't expect internet dealers though.
He will guide you to the right place, I assure you. No, to my knowledge, JL does not sell direct. I hope they will, someday. Just my hope, does not mean it will ever happen. And simply my wish. A lot of people disagree on this and I am not looking for confrontation here. Just posting my thoughts.

Online sales = dumping and ruined market. Stick a fork in them..

When purchasing direct from SVS,HSU or say TC Sounds that is fine.But online stores competing with one another,they get into discount wars and quickly start dumping.

Online sales = dumping and ruined market. Stick a fork in them..

When purchasing direct from SVS,HSU or say TC Sounds that is fine.But online stores competing with one another,they get into discount wars and quickly start dumping.
With you on everything else Arthur. Not with you on this one :) and respectfully disagree. Sorry. I am for on-line stores.

With you on everything else Arthur. Not with you on this one :) and respectfully disagree. Sorry. I am for on-line stores.

I would not see it this way if the online stores did not dump and ruin sales in real stores where owners have invested money in personel and sourroundings to make sales.
As opposed to an online store(warehouse)with packing boys.

;)

I will also agree that a good few of the classic stores have personel with poor knowledge of the products they sell. I sometimes test these "experts" to the point of ...steam comming out of thier ears.

It would seem that given the price point of their product line, they are positioned at the highest end. Most buyers in that league require extensive auditioning in exacting environments. JL needs to support their high end network and that means no internet businesses.

Someone PM me and suggest a good price point wheather it be online or in the store. I doubt we should pay MSRP, correct?

Thanks

Someone PM me and suggest a good price point wheather it be online or in the store. I doubt we should pay MSRP, correct?

Thanks

Correct

I never pay or will pay full retail. No matter how good the product.

Someone PM me and suggest a good price point wheather it be online or in the store. I doubt we should pay MSRP, correct?

Thanks

Buying online wouldn't offer a warranty?

Have you checked with your local dealer. As we all like a good price, it is also about building a relationship.

Michael

I agree buying online wouldn't be a good idea but I was wondering where the high and low end would be.

Buying online wouldn't offer a warranty?

Have you checked with your local dealer. As we all like a good price, it is also about building a relationship.

Michael

You presume that there is a local dealer.

I did a search using the 100 mile parameter and got zip.

You presume that there is a local dealer.

I did a search using the 100 mile parameter and got zip.

Welcome to the world of considering purchasing a JL sub. You know you might want it, but you don't know what you'll have to pay, or where to buy it. These are obviously outstanding subwoofers, but IMHO, they really need to work out a better system for selling their subs.

I drove 4 miles down the road and picked mine up over lunch.... it is nice have a dealer so close. After using the sub for a few weeks now it is just amazing. I watched Mi III last night and I had not heard such great low sounding bass in my life.

You can't go wrong with this sub.

Matthew

I am slowly stretching the wings of my dual subs. Last evening, I calibrated it hot and played a few scenes in "Eragon" at +5MV and measured a whopping 117dB (uncorrected with a galaxy meter) at LP in a fairly large room (6000 cu ft and leaky, so I would say effective 7K cu ft). At such loud volumes, it felt like the floor was moving. I don't know if I have reached the sub's limits yet. I dared not go louder than that.
Not an SPL race, but what is the loudest some of you have measured and in what scenes?
I didn't expect the f113s to go that loud, but they sure do and continue to surprise me :)

Replayed same scene, pushed harder, and 118dB this time and that was it and the twins said, "we ain't got no more". I think I finally reached the limits of the dual f113s.
Crap, now I need 2 more :). It was apparently approaching structural damage to the building :).

I had my buddy over to hear my single (wo is me) f113 in my 2000cu/ft room. War of the Worlds was awesome, but then I put in my favorite all time demo Irene and pushed it up to reference level (as determined by the Pioneer receiver anyway). WOW! I'd felt the chopper blades a little bit before, but this time it was a whole new experience. Not only did I feel them hit me in the chest, if felt like they were sucking me back toward the sub as they spun away, it was a crazy pulsing of the waves that produced a truly unbelievable effect. Two or more of these babies would be a phenomenon to experience.

Thanks JL! Best upgrade I've ever made to my HT. And I'm positive that I just made you another sale with my bud. :D As folks here have tried to articulate, it's rare that you find an HT product that you can recommend without hesitiation, JUST BUY IT, no questions asked!

I had my buddy over to hear my single (wo is me) f113 in my 2000cu/ft room. War of the Worlds was awesome, but then I put in my favorite all time demo Irene and pushed it up to reference level (as determined by the Pioneer receiver anyway). WOW! I'd felt the chopper blades a little bit before, but this time it was a whole new experience. Not only did I feel them hit me in the chest, if felt like they were sucking me back toward the sub as they spun away, it was a crazy pulsing of the waves that produced a truly unbelievable effect. Two or more of these babies would be a phenomenon to experience.

Thanks JL! Best upgrade I've ever made to my HT. And I'm positive that I just made you another sale with my bud. :D As folks here have tried to articulate, it's rare that you find an HT product that you can recommend without hesitiation, JUST BUY IT, no questions asked!
Yes. To top it, the sound quality/realism is fantastic.

I am slowly stretching the wings of my dual subs. Last evening, I calibrated it hot and played a few scenes in "Eragon" at +5MV and measured a whopping 117dB (uncorrected with a galaxy meter) at LP in a fairly large room (6000 cu ft and leaky, so I would say effective 7K cu ft). At such loud volumes, it felt like the floor was moving. I don't know if I have reached the sub's limits yet. I dared not go louder than that.
Not an SPL race, but what is the loudest some of you have measured and in what scenes?
I didn't expect the f113s to go that loud, but they sure do and continue to surprise me :)
I have been listening primarily to music with the twins. Frankly, for music in my room I think one 113 would suffice.

For movies however, twin 113s are quite a powerful package. My g'f brought over the animated flick 'Happy Feet' last Sunday. The LFE track was stong enough at the onset of the movie to make the dogs get up and beg to go outside...even before the powerful avalanche and lepoard seal attack scenes.

The scene where the ship is breaking through ice sheets made both humans in the room move over a tad as if to get out of the way....awesome effect for a large open room. I did not take SPL measurements.

I don't do movie reviews, but if I did "Happy Feet' would rank on the lower teir of animated flicks that I have viewed. Above average for a sub tester though.

Just had happy feet here also...decent LFE I'd say. 6K cubic foot room, 2 openings and the B4+ wouldn't give in:)

Happy Feet should be renamed Happy Subs. ;) I like my f113's that is for sure,they are true mighty mini giants. Anything music or HT is a pleasure to listen to even at silly SPL.

So all you guys think that because you have jl audio fathoms or even duals you have great powerful bass. Think again, I just talked to my local JL dealer and they said Shaq has 8 gotham's in his listening room. Beat that.

Oh, They also said he has 14 all together.

...but why can't he sink free throws? :confused:

No kidding, maybe his proprioception is off from all that bass.

They told me that he wanted the same kind of bass that he was getting in his car.

They told me that he wanted the same kind of bass that he was getting in his car.

You know that can't be good for you. :D

So all you guys think that because you have jl audio fathoms or even duals you have great powerful bass. Think again, I just talked to my local JL dealer and they said Shaq has 8 gotham's in his listening room. Beat that.

Ummmm... no. He may have some Fathoms, but not Gothams.

So all you guys think that because you have jl audio fathoms or even duals you have great powerful bass. Think again, I just talked to my local JL dealer and they said Shaq has 8 gotham's in his listening room. Beat that.
That's interesting, the Gothams just went into production!

Ummmm... no. He may have some Fathoms, but not Gothams.
Mr. Smith just saw your post, did not intend to report the same information. On another note concerning the f113, I found the ARO very sensitive to items in my room that produce any type of buzz, reguardless of how minor. Once I eleminated the buzz the ARO ran without hitch. Of course, I did not have any buzzing with my previous sub :)

Would you consider it worth while to place the f113 in the "ideal" seating location and and use a mic, spl meter and frequency sweeps to find the best sub location? Or, is the ARO good enough to compensate for normal room modes?

The better the location, the better the performance (ARO or no ARO). If you have the ability to measure different locations and can find one that works practically and acoustically, that's the way to go. This way, ARO has less to do. If you can't find one that works practically and acoustically, ARO can save your butt by making a compromised location work better.

I did question their statement. They told me the subs were huge. I said the fathoms were smaller subwoofers. He said they were very tall. You would know best. I live in a town of over exaggeration. Anyway, 8 fathoms would be alot of bass as well.

somebody was... um... how do I put this politely... "engaging in hyperbole".

I can't wait to get my F113 this weekend, I am thinking maybe I should get two for my room is 21 x 21 x 10 with a big opening to the back. I am having the dealer install it along with my other speakers.

I am coming from a SVS PB12-Plus/2 and that thing could move a lot of air.

Anyone have a thought?

I can't wait to get my F113 this weekend, I am thinking maybe I should get two for my room is 21 x 21 x 10 with a big opening to the back. I am having the dealer install it along with my other speakers.

I am coming from a SVS PB12-Plus/2 and that thing could move a lot of air.

Anyone have a thought?

I do. First of all I predict you will end up with two (more on that later). Having said that; Why not try and see how the one you will be getting does?

My room is 17 x 23 x 14 and also has a big openning. I came from dual 16-46 CS+'s driven by a Carver A-760 (600w/ch into 4 ohms). One F113 does quite well. However your appetite for bass might be more than mine.

The reason why I think you'll end up with two is because, like most of us you cannot get enough of a good thing.

Online sales = dumping and ruined market. Stick a fork in them..

When purchasing direct from SVS,HSU or say TC Sounds that is fine.But online stores competing with one another,they get into discount wars and quickly start dumping.
Discount wars? You mean to satisfy people like you that say, and I quote, "I never pay or will pay full retail. No matter how good the product. "

I think this discount expectation that Americans seem to have really makes it difficult for B&M's to compete especially when it's common for people to expect -20% or more and become offended when they don't get it.


Does anyone know how the Fathoms and Gothams will be distributed in Europe or will these be available direct initially? And yes, I know that 230v versions aren't available yet.

Discount wars? You mean to satisfy people like you that say, and I quote, "I never pay or will pay full retail. No matter how good the product. "

I think this discount expectation that Americans seem to have really makes it difficult for B&M's to compete especially when it's common for people to expect -20% or more and become offended when they don't get it.


Does anyone know how the Fathoms and Gothams will be distributed in Europe or will these be available direct initially? And yes, I know that 230v versions aren't available yet.Haggling and negotiating over price goes back a long time-way way before America was even here (discovered). I am pretty darn sure the American Indian haggled over price (trade value). I don't think it is an "American" thing at all. In fact, MSRP is a much more recent invention and sometimes skates dangerously close to restraint of free trade IMHO. Long live the free market :)

I can't wait to get my F113 this weekend, I am thinking maybe I should get two for my room is 21 x 21 x 10 with a big opening to the back. I am having the dealer install it along with my other speakers.

I am coming from a SVS PB12-Plus/2 and that thing could move a lot of air.

Anyone have a thought?

My thought is that you're going to have some serious bass irregularities if your room is 21x21 because of the identical dimensions. You'll need to do some experimenting with position to avoid huge suckouts in the bass and possibly multiple subs will help if positioned appropriately.

Long live the free market :)

What's more, manufacturers/retailers, in turn, price accordingly.

I am pretty darn sure the American Indian haggled over price (trade value).

Yes, and didn't they do a great job on the Manhattan negotiation. :p

Originally Posted by AdrianMills
Discount wars? You mean to satisfy people like you that say, and I quote, "I never pay or will pay full retail. No matter how good the product. "

I think this discount expectation that Americans seem to have really makes it difficult for B&M's to compete especially when it's common for people to expect -20% or more and become offended when they don't get it.


Does anyone know how the Fathoms and Gothams will be distributed in Europe or will these be available direct initially? And yes, I know that 230v versions aren't available yet.
Just to set the record straight, TheEar is Canadian American and then there are the U.S. Americans and of course Mexican Americans. We all live in "North America" so we're all technically Americans.

And yes we like to pay less than we have to for anything we might buy. On the other hand I've yet to meet a european that doesn't like to pay less either. Mono pricing in europe is a little boring, if you ask me. But it does keep you closer to your home community I guess, if that's a good thing. ;)

I think it's posted back in the thread somewhere; I believe JL will sell through a distribution channel sometime this year in Europe. Mr. Smith will post I'm sure.

Haggling and negotiating over price goes back a long time-way way before America was even here (discovered). I am pretty darn sure the American Indian haggled over price (trade value). I don't think it is an "American" thing at all. In fact, MSRP is a much more recent invention and sometimes skates dangerously close to restraint of free trade IMHO. Long live the free market :)
Hm, haggling yes, but it's not exactly haggling when people have an expectation of getting 20% off the asking price and they immediately get offended and go elsewhere when they don't get it; it's a typical attitude that I've seen stated on these forums and I guess it's partly that attitude that's helped ID companies take off so much in the US.

Anyway, I was mainly directing my comments at the Ear's post as it seemed a little hypocritical of him to be criticizing companies discounting and then refusing to buy anything that hadn’t been discounted.

Maybe you guys should count yourselves lucky that the MSRP you have to pay is actually quite low.

Yes, and didn't they do a great job on the Manhattan negotiation. :p

They actually did great. The island didn't belong to that particular tribe. They got beads for selling some other tribe's land.

Just to set the record straight, TheEar is Canadian American and then there are the U.S. Americans and of course Mexican Americans. We all live in "North America" so we're all technically Americans.
Whoops, yes, thanks for the reminder :o :D But the gist of what I was saying remains valid anyway. ;)


And yes we like to pay less than we have to for anything we might buy. On the other hand I've yet to meet a european that doesn't like to pay less either. Mono pricing in europe is a little boring, if you ask me. But it does keep you closer to your home community I guess, if that's a good thing. ;)
Yes, of course we're always on the look out for a bargain and will haggle too as I did when I bought my latest kit, but out of the 11K US$ I got 2% or less discount; not because I'm a bad haggler but because here it's a dealers market for B&W speakers and Denon gear. We also don't expect 10 or 20% discount although maybe that attitude is starting to shift too with more people going ID. It'll be a shame if it forces B&M closures; currently I have well over a dozen boutiques within an hour and a half of me.


I think it's posted back in the thread somewhere; I believe JL will sell through a distribution channel sometime this year in Europe. Mr. Smith will post I'm sure.
Thanks for that - I gave up reading this thread sequentially after page 24 or so. :D

They actually did great. The island didn't belong to that particular tribe. They got beads for selling some other tribe's land.


Well see, you learn something every day here on the old AVS Forum.

I wonder if Donald Trump is American Indian?

IMO, capitalism is pretty predatory (as it should be). I lament the passing of local shops too, but it is survival of the fittest and I don't think the consumer should be blamed. Expecting a discount is usually because either the item is priced too high based on demand or because of predatory pricing. Predatory pricing is NOT the consumers fault in my opinion. Dealers that blame the consumer know not where their bread is buttered. Anyway, I think most B&M dealers go under because like many small businesses they are undercapitalized.

I also have a story the predates the Internet (at least in a popular sense as it happened around 15-20 years ago). I bought a Mitsubishi TV from Best Buy and got a better deal because I mentioned the fact that the local B&M store at the time was selling them cheaper. How is that for the reverse-B&M makes Best Buy discount? The only point I am making is that discounting electronics is fairly standard fare long before the Internet and this forum. Similiar to cars and that is one of the reasons it is expected. Now back to the regularly scheduled program about JL's great subs (and they are great for sure)!

Is there any danger to my health for having dual F113s in my 640 cu ft room? I'm curious because I am thinking of 2 and I think I have a pretty nasty room, acoustic wise.
I will edit my post with a quick paint picture because I have a small little opening, so my room may be a little bigger.

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/4320/roomau0.th.jpg (http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=roomau0.jpg)

Originally Posted by Spezzy
Is there any danger to my health for having dual F113s in my 640 cu ft room? I'm curious because I am thinking of 2 and I think I have a pretty nasty room, acoustic wise.
I will edit my post with a quick paint picture because I have a small little opening, so my room may be a little bigger.
With all respect your either nuts, you read and take this forum much to seriously, or it's a joke right? Yikes!

That's an 8 X 10 room you've got there, right? One f113 in a room that size will hammer you, but you can turn the volume down. Dry wall nails may pop. The door will rattle for sure. I don't think it will kill you, but it could get uncomfortable.

I have one in a room four times your size with the gain set at 10:00 o'clock with the system calibrated to 75 dB. You feel it hitting your chest at -10 dB on the pre/pro. I don't think two will help you in a room that small. Maybe you should use the money that you would spend for the second one on a room addition.;)

On the other hand, go for it! :)

Spezzy,

A suggestion from someone who has the 113 in a room, TWICE your size. Oh my!! 1375 CF. We have monster sized rooms don't we!! The advantage of this subwoofer is it is very small and takes up minimal floor space. That is one reason why I purchased it and it's perfect for small sized rooms.

Try one. See if it fits your needs (you gotta be kidding me) and then progress from there. Seriously, one will be more then enough. Spend the extra money on acoustic treatments, if you can fit them into the room!! :D

With all respect your either nuts, you read and take this forum much to seriously, or it's a joke right? Yikes!

That's an 8 X 10 room you've got there, right? One f113 in a room that size will hammer you, but you can turn the volume down. Dry wall nails may pop. The door will rattle for sure. I don't think it will kill you, but it could get uncomfortable.
I have one in a room four times your size with the gain set at 10:00 o'clock with the system calibrated to 75 dB. You feel it hitting your chest at -10 dB on the pre/pro. I don't think two will help you in a room that small. Maybe you should use the money that you would spend for the second one on a room addition.;)

On the other hand, go for it! :)

Nice. I'll be sure to get one now :).

Is there any danger to my health for having dual F113s in my 640 cu ft room? I'm curious because I am thinking of 2 and I think I have a pretty nasty room, acoustic wise.
I will edit my post with a quick paint picture because I have a small little opening, so my room may be a little bigger.

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/4320/roomau0.th.jpg (http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=roomau0.jpg)

One F112 would be a better choice.

spezzy, a F113 and a Velodyne SMS-1 will do you better than dual F113's (unless you want to get dual F113's AND the SMS-1)

spezzy, a F113 and a Velodyne SMS-1 will do you better than dual F113's (unless you want to get dual F113's AND the SMS-1)

Good point.. I should have thought about that. Just been all excited you know? An F113.. I remember coming across this one the internet like 3 years ago.. Man I was 12 at the time and I always looked at it in awe.. : :p

Originally Posted JimP
One F112 would be a better choice.
How so?

The f113 is a better value IMHO. The prices are too close. You pick up 2.4 liters more displacement and 1000 more watts for not too much more money. f113 hands down.

Originally Posted by ribbit
spezzy, a F113 and a Velodyne SMS-1 will do you better than dual F113's (unless you want to get dual F113's AND the SMS-1)
Can't disagree with this, but start with one and try the ARO before you invest in the SMS-1. You may be pleasantly surprised and not need the SMS-1. As simple as the ARO may sound, it does a very good job in most cases.

ribbit, I currently own two F113s, AND, I had an SMS-1. I sold the SMS-1 because I didn't feel that I needed it. The ARO did the trick and I felt the SMS-1 was just another circuit to send the sound through. I used the SMS-1 full time when I had twin SVS CS-Ultras. It is a good unit, I just didn't need it with the Fathoms.


Gene

How so?

The f113 is a better value IMHO. The prices are too close. You pick up 2.4 liters more displacement and 1000 more watts for not too much more money. f113 hands down.




8' X 10' room. That's just not that much space to have to fill.

I was under the impression that the F112 was a good deal less than the F113. What is the price difference?

Originally Posted JimP
8' X 10' room. That's just not that much space to have to fill.
I agree. What would be nice is the f110, but it's not out yet.

I believe MSRP f112 $2700; MSRP f113 $3300 in piano black finish. $100 less for matte finish. Then there's street price.

25% more displacement and 40% more power for $600 MSRP difference. Seems like a better deal to me but YMMV.

8' X 10' room. That's just not that much space to have to fill.

I was under the impression that the F112 was a good deal less than the F113. What is the price difference?

a 6.5" "woofer" should be enough for that size a room :D :eek:

just kidding ...

ribbit, I currently own two F113s, AND, I had an SMS-1. I sold the SMS-1 because I didn't feel that I needed it. The ARO did the trick and I felt the SMS-1 was just another circuit to send the sound through. I used the SMS-1 full time when I had twin SVS CS-Ultras. It is a good unit, I just didn't need it with the Fathoms.


Gene

Gene, that's good on the part of the fathoms ... did you use the same locations as the Ultras?

Good point.. I should have thought about that. Just been all excited you know? An F113.. I remember coming across this one the internet like 3 years ago.. Man I was 12 at the time and I always looked at it in awe.. : :p

Your parents must give you a good allowance if you're looking at the Fathom! :)

Your parents must give you a good allowance if you're looking at the Fathom! :)
Believe it or not, Spezzy wanted a Danley DTS-20 in that room and when I found his real age asked to talk to his parents :). Spezzy, I think you did a good thing in not purchasing the Danley for such a small room. I would second others opinions here that a single f112 will be a good match for your room. Just a friendly input, save up for college ;).
Regards.

What cable connection should I use with the F113? I will have it connected to the Elite 84 receiver. THanks

Maybe you should use the money that you would spend for the second one on a room addition.;)

On the other hand, go for it! :)

LMAO :p

Your parents must give you a good allowance if you're looking at the Fathom! :)

I don't get allowance. I'm using my leftover cash from DJ'ing. I recently got a good sum of money from a fashion show that included some name brands.

I'm not sure if an f113 will have enough output for your room, I'd hold out for a Gotham. :D :D :D :D

why is this thread still going.

The fathom was cool.

We've established that it's overpriced

Hey look, I summed the thread up in two lines

why is this thread still going.

The fathom was cool.

We've established that it's overpriced

Hey look, I summed the thread up in two lines

The fathom IS cool

Hey look, we've established that you're a dork :rolleyes:

I'm not sure if an f113 will have enough output for your room, I'd hold out for a Gotham. :D :D :D :D

I was considering that. It looks really cool atleast. When will they be shipping and how much are they? If it's more than 6k, screw that.. 6k is a bit too much for a subwoofer.

it is more than 6K.

....and 300 lbs. How would you like to have to move that?

it is more than 6K.

Forget it.. I could use the extra money for something else.

Isn't it more around 400 lbs?
That would kinda suck to move though.

According to Mr. Smith, the JL rep, the weight is around 400 pounds. Perhaps you should put 2 Gothams in that room? :D

According to Mr. Smith, the JL rep, the weight is around 400 pounds. Perhaps you should put 2 Gothams in that room? :D
Hell why not eight! :p

I have been playing with my New F113 sub for the good part of the day, and I hope I have something set wrong, because I don't get the same bass that I got from my SVS PB12/Plus 2.

It makes nice low bass, but doesn't pound your chest like I would expect.

Any ideas of things I should check?

I have been playing with my New F113 sub for the good part of the day, and I hope I have something set wrong, because I don't get the same bass that I got from my SVS PB12/Plus 2.

It makes nice low bass, but doesn't pound your chest like I would expect.

Any ideas of things I should check?
You probably have something set wrong. Have you measured the frequency response and if so, how does it look? Try setting the gain a little higher. Also, use defeat and also make sure ELF trim is turned off. ONce dialed in, you are in for a treat :D

I've been using an SVS PB2plus for almost 4 years now. I want a sealed sub for my next upgrade. I think the F113 fits the bill nicely..

1. Good choice :cool:

2. Balanced is the prefered cable but not necessary for that short of a run.

3. I would use the bass managment of the D2 and set the Level mode on the F113 to Reference after you run ARO. ARO requires the Level Mode be set to Variable. Use the ELF Trim, Polarity and Phase settings to dial it in. The manual explains this all fairly well.

4, Break in is 30-45 seconds ;)

If you are picking it up, be sure to get the original box and packing material.

RMK, can you tell me more about using the Bass Management of the D2 to set the level on the JL F113

Thanks

Don't mess with the settings on the D2 other than setting the Xover. You should be using the ARO to set the sub up in your room.

RMK, can you tell me more about using the Bass Management of the D2 to set the level on the JL F113

Thanks

I do not have a D2 but I have spent a little time with one. As I'm sure you know the speaker levels (including bass) are set via test tones and your SPL Meter. As I remember, the D2 has a Bass manager than limits the peak level of bass output. You should check this setting to see if that may be limiting your F113's output.

When the Level Mode on the Fathom is set to Variable, the gain is set on the Fathom via the Master Level control. When it is set to Reference, the processor sets the subs level.

I have been playing with my New F113 sub for the good part of the day, and I hope I have something set wrong, because I don't get the same bass that I got from my SVS PB12/Plus 2.

It makes nice low bass, but doesn't pound your chest like I would expect.

Any ideas of things I should check?

Check polarity and phasing. If you've got cancellations happening at the crossover frequency you will still have "low bass" but loose output in the crossover region. I assume the location of the 113 is the same as the PB12?

I do not have a D2 but I have spent a little time with one. As I'm sure you know the speaker levels (including bass) are set via test tones and your SPL Meter. As I remember, the D2 has a Bass manager than limits the peak level of bass output. You should check this setting to see if that may be limiting your F113's output.

When the Level Mode on the Fathom is set to Variable, the gain is set on the Fathom via the Master Level control. When it is set to Reference, the processor sets the subs level.

I started checking this last night, but both kids went to sleep so I wasn't able to play with it.

Michael

Michael,

I had somewhat of a similar issue with an AVM-20 a few years ago. I am sure there are similarities in the software of the D-2 and the AVM-20.

I'm not trying to insult your intelligence with my comment here.

If you play around with the bass peak level settings, be cautious as you can send a very strong signal to the sub. When the AVM-20 was first released, there was a long thread at the HTF forum and I think someone messed their sub up experimenting with this part of the software.

The default is "0" and if I recall that number disengages any + or - output the Anthem product sends to the sub. I think it's a neutral number.

Also, I think if you have the sub set to "Ultra 2" the Bass Peak Level Management (BPLM) is disabled. All of this is from memory.

Charles

why is this thread still going.

The fathom was cool.

We've established that it's overpriced

Hey look, I summed the thread up in two lines

Listen

The Fathom is THE best compact sub on the market.

The Fathom is priced well in light of the competition.

The Fathom line will continue to draw interest like it or NOT. :p


Those who established it is overpriced left this thread...

Thanks for adding

Hey guys, I pick up my new fathom on Friday. (F113) Can't wait to report back.

M1

I think anyone who says it's overpriced probably doesn't own one. I thought it was a bit steep until I got it home. It's worth every penny.

Michael,

I had somewhat of a similar issue with an AVM-20 a few years ago. I am sure there are similarities in the software of the D-2 and the AVM-20.

I'm not trying to insult your intelligence with my comment here.

If you play around with the bass peak level settings, be cautious as you can send a very strong signal to the sub. When the AVM-20 was first released, there was a long thread at the HTF forum and I think someone messed their sub up experimenting with this part of the software.

The default is "0" and if I recall that number disengages any + or - output the Anthem product sends to the sub. I think it's a neutral number.

Also, I think if you have the sub set to "Ultra 2" the Bass Peak Level Management (BPLM) is disabled. All of this is from memory.

Charles

Thanks, will check it out tonight.

The dealer I bought it from, will be at the house in the next few weeks, and I am sure he can get it moving. We weren't able to play with it, as it was late a night. I can't wait to get this thing moving.

I think anyone who says it's overpriced probably doesn't own one. I thought it was a bit steep until I got it home. It's worth every penny.

Right on. For the quality,compactness one gets,and ease of setup...not many compete.

Credit where credit is due.These Fathoms are keepers :)

So I was playing around the JL F113 tonight.

I was playing a Sheffield Lab Drum Track Disk. I unplugged the front speakers, and put the reciever on reffernece level. I could barely get the JL to move.

I then went to Finding Nemo, put on the Darla scene and it was a really sloppy bass. The house was rattling, but no bass that you could feel.

Any ideas on what I should check?

So I was playing around the JL F113 tonight.

I was playing a Sheffield Lab Drum Track Disk. I unplugged the front speakers, and put the reciever on reffernece level. I could barely get the JL to move.

I then went to Finding Nemo, put on the Darla scene and it was a really sloppy bass. The house was rattling, but no bass that you could feel.

Any ideas on what I should check?

Try it with the mains on also. A lot of the "feel" of bass heavy scenes is from acoustic clues present in the higher frequencies. Punchy kick drum recordings loose the punch when the high frequency (>80Hz) portion of the signal is removed.

This sub's got my attention. Just finished reading this thread this weekend... Whew.

Called JL about a dealer in the area because none were listed within 100 miles. Then last week they finally signed up a local dealer. Talked to him last week and he's ordering a demo. Should be in this week. I'm looking forward to hearing it.

jmcomp124,
Are those your F113's on Audiogon? Why are you selling?

How far down will the F113 dig for bass? Will it resolve material lower than my PB2+ ?
I have many ugrades planned in the next year including my display,receiver,DVD and possibly speakers. Either two F113's or a single G213 are at the top of my upgrade list. When does the G213 street?

jmcomp124,
Are those your F113's on Audiogon? Why are you selling?
Yes, those are mine. One already sold. I want to try the new Ultras from SVS and possibly other subs too. I am on a "find the best" mode. The f113s are on top of the list.

Question, if I got a F113 would I still want to use my SMS-1?

Madpoet, after I bought my twin F113s, I sold my SMS-1. I thought the ARO did a good enough job.

Gene

ok, thanks :)

How low can the F113 go cleanly?

Yes, those are mine. One already sold. I want to try the new Ultras from SVS and possibly other subs too. I am on a "find the best" mode. The f113s are on top of the list.
But, But, But......................................................... ..................................

What are you going to do until they (the Ultra 13) are shipped? :D

But, But, But......................................................... ..................................

What are you going to do until they (the Ultra 13) are shipped? :D
Oh John. The pain is going to start this evening and yes I have to live with it.
In fact thinking of dual HSU 3.3s as interim unless they stun me and I buy a couple more.

Question, if I got a F113 would I still want to use my SMS-1?
The ARO is single band, so it will tame only one peak.

But now that I can't buy yours Jai, I'll just have to wait :)

Question, if I got a F113 would I still want to use my SMS-1?

I would think it would depend on your particular room/installation. One installation may only have one peak to correct in which case you may not need the SMS-1. Another may have 3, then you would need the SMS-1.

I think I would hold onto it until I was fully satisfied that I didn't need it.

How low? Real low.

Thanks.

But now that I can't buy yours Jai, I'll just have to wait :)
Sorry. They really sold in record time.

I don't suppose there are any discount vendors for it? :)

I'm not sure if an f113 will have enough output for your room, I'd hold out for a Gotham. :D :D :D :D

Jeff,

I think one GOtham is not enough for his room. I say he needs 2 of them :p .

Gotham not enough...sure if you need to shake the house from its foundation! :p

And heck,why not have fun and supercharge the LF channel?

Dual f113 can fill a ~5000cu ft space with ease and power. Awe inspiring bass from two cute tiny boxes that weigh a total of only 260lbs. :)

I set mine side by side for maximum effect,gain.

Looks like after some research, my D2 has a LFE bug, that can be corrected with a new a upgrade of the software. I found this out as I was leaving for a trip for the week. So I can only dream of what this baby is going to sound like.

I would also like to say, that the dealer I bought it from, said he will make sure it is set up correctly when he delivers the rest of my stuff. The only reason we didn't play it, was the kids were already asleep.

Michael

Looks like after some research, my D2 has a LFE bug, that can be corrected with a new a upgrade of the software. I found this out as I was leaving for a trip for the week. So I can only dream of what this baby is going to sound like.

I would also like to say, that the dealer I bought it from, said he will make sure it is set up correctly when he delivers the rest of my stuff. The only reason we didn't play it, was the kids were already asleep.

Michael

Good news Michael!! Your situation entered my mind a bit during the day attempting to add some troubleshooting thoughts. Glad you figured it out!!! Anthem is A1 with their tech support.

Charles

Just finished packing those babies and man I almost broke my back. Unpacking is fun, but packing is painful, emotionally and physically. Some of you are sure wondering, he must be crazy to sell those :). Well, feels a lot better with the cash back in hand though.
Now the anticipation for my next subs begin. The pleasure and the pain of this hobby.

Just finished packing those babies and man I almost broke my back. Unpacking is fun, but packing is painful, emotionally and physically. Some of you are sure wondering, he must be crazy to sell those :). Well, feels a lot better with the cash back in hand though.
Now the anticipation for my next subs begin. The pleasure and the pain of this hobby.

Jai,

You are getting rid of you're Fathoms 2 :) ?

Jai,

You are getting rid of you're Fathoms 2 :) ?
Yes. And???? Go for it dude say what is in your mind and I will swallow it :D. There are quite a few here who are thinking what the heck is going on and are not saying anything fearing they are going to hurt my feelings :o

Damn Jai! I would have bought one of them off of you. Lowest price I can get from a local dealer PAYING IN CASH is $2600! RIDICULOUS! lol.

Spezzy,
No matter what, I refuse to sell it to you because you are "too young" to make these decisions. I know you are probably not happy with me about the Danley. Seriously guy, get out of here and think of higher education. Once you get your degree you can buy as many fathoms/gothams as you want. Don't be mad at me. Anyone who really cares would say the same thing. You know, I spent many years in higher eduation and I don't regret a bit. This forum thing is a break for me as I am on line working round the clock. When I need a break, I come here but that is only until I settle on a sub. Once I am done, I am back full time on career. Focus on that dude. Career. When I am done with subs, I focus on vacation and enjoying life. BTW, if he offers you $2500 go for it. Don't pay a penny more. Any dealer who asks for more than $2500 needs a whip. You kid, you are a lot smarter than what I was in your age. So I think you deserve an f113.

Thanks for the comments and advice Jai, really appreciate it. I know my last semester wasn't that great.. I don't know if I told you about it (3.87 GPA.. :( ) I still try though. It is a little hard being on the Varsity track team at my school and still having time for small business, heh..
www.materdei.org

Thanks for the comments and advice Jai, really appreciate it. I know my last semester wasn't that great.. I don't know if I told you about it (3.87 GPA.. :( ) I still try though. It is a little hard being on the Varsity track team at my school and still having time for small business, heh..
www.materdei.org
3.87 is a good grade Spezzy. I am proud of you. I am sure you will do better. My humble advise to you is that, no matter what field you are in, get the highest education you can in that field, possibly a PhD.
Enjoy your hobby. A lot more kids out there are into lot of bad stuff. I am glad you are into subwoofers :D. I admire you buddy.

3.87 is a good grade Spezzy. I am proud of you. I am sure you will do better. My humble advise to you is that, no matter what field you are in, get the highest education you can in that field, possibly a PhD.
Enjoy your hobby. A lot more kids out there are into lot of bad stuff. I am glad you are into subwoofers :D. I admire you buddy.

Thanks.. USC seems like a good place. I'll probably be going there. Where did you go Jai?

O.K., I'll ask.

If the F113s are so darn good, why are you REALLY getting rid of them? or do they not sound as good as others are saying and its mostly hype???

....and, have you found something else that sounds better??? If so, what??
Jim,
I don't think they are hyped. I think they are indeed good, but not worth $3300/sub and that's just my humble opinion. The reason why I am selling them is a special case and there are some folks like me, who sell stuff, not because they are not satisfied with them, but simply because they want to try out something else. In my case, I want to try out the new Ultra-13s. Please do not doubt the goodness of the f113 because of my decision. They are one of the best subs I have ever heard and don't be surprised if I come back to them.
Thanks,
-Jai

It would be nice to get back to discussing Fathoms in this thread. There are dedicated threads for other products (even imaginary ones ;) ).

Has anyone with dual Fathoms run them as dual masters vs. the master/slave config. I know that the master/slave is the recommended mode but mine are not co-located and I have a (room generated) 6 db peak @ 60hz that ARO does not touch. I was thinking of trying the dual master approach and running ARO separately. Has anyone tried this?

It would be nice to get back to discussing Fathoms in this thread. There are dedicated threads for other products (even imaginary ones ;) ).

Has anyone with dual Fathoms run them as dual masters vs. the master/slave config. I know that the master/slave is the recommended mode but mine are not co-located and I have a (room generated) 6 db peak @ 60hz that ARO does not touch. I was thinking of trying the dual master approach and running ARO separately. Has anyone tried this?
RMK!, I ran them as dual masters with an external Y-splitter. Always defeated the ARO though since I use an external PEQ. I am not sure if running ARO separately might help. The FR at your LP for each sub can be quite different when only one sub is running. The 60Hz peak you see may not be there when only one sub is active. It maybe worth looking into an external PEQ.
Good luck.

There are dedicated threads for other products (even imaginary ones ;) ).

Not imaginary any more as there are real ones out there not just rendered pixels (or SL imaginations) and the numbers (derived in my head based on a million questions) are deadly :cool: . We will find out in a month or two. Back to f113s now :D

Not imaginary any more as there are real ones out there not just rendered pixels (or SL imaginations) and the numbers (derived in my head based on a million questions) are deadly :cool: . We will find out in a month or two. Back to f113s now :D

Vaporsubs ? :D

Vaporsubs ? :D
I think he was referring to the Ultra-13s when he called them imaginary :).

It would be nice to get back to discussing Fathoms in this thread. There are dedicated threads for other products (even imaginary ones ;) ).

Has anyone with dual Fathoms run them as dual masters vs. the master/slave config. I know that the master/slave is the recommended mode but mine are not co-located and I have a (room generated) 6 db peak @ 60hz that ARO does not touch. I was thinking of trying the dual master approach and running ARO separately. Has anyone tried this?

I haven't tried it yet. I just co-located the twins and am going to run them as master/slave for a while to see how the new positioning works out.

I wish we could rename the terminology...master and slave. In this climate of hate and racism, we need to be more PC.

Hey I just heard that CBS was going to hire Imus to report along side Andy Rooney! It will be the Imus and Andy show....now that's progressive!

I wish we could rename the terminology...master and slave. In this climate of hate and racism, we need to be more PC.

Hey I just heard that CBS was going to hire Imus to report along side Andy Rooney! It will be the Imus and Andy show....now that's progressive!
...nm

I humbly disagree. We're too damm PC as it is....people need to lighten up.

We're discussing the relationship between two pieces of audio gear.

These comments are not directed specifically at you getech, just a general observation and a personal opinion.

carry on

I agree,

With all this PC taken to extremes BS is sugar coated and more explosive individuals will manifest the rage at one point.

Master and Slave ...wow now JL Audio is...evil? Give me a break,a Brembo break. :rolleyes:

Some suffer from paranoia,and this should be treated.There is help...

My fellow 'goners.....I was joking. Geez, talk about lightening up....please follow your own directive...

Cheers!

Anyone with a dealer recommendation near San Jose, CA?

My attempts to contact and speak directly with someone at ANY of the three listed on the JL Audio website have so far been fruitless. One is in San Jose, one is in San Francisco, the last in Oakland. I have no desire to make the drive (particularly the last two) if I can't even connect by phone.

Did you even find a dealer near San Jose? I considered driving to the East Bay but won't be able to get up there during business hours until late next month, at the earliest. EDIT: San Jose dealer did contact me -- alas they don't have a showroom and they have no stock with which to demo one. Bummer. If that's the situation, I'd prefer to mail order direct from JL.

Hello Nathan, I am a dealer here in the East Bay. I have the Fathoms in stock (and always do keep one or two available) and also have them set up for demo. Please give me a call to arrange a visit. Come armed with CDs/DVDs and be prepared to be blown away.

Thanks,
Greg
G.E. Technology, Inc.
510-595-2278

Hello Nathan, I am a dealer here in the East Bay. I have the Fathoms in stock (and always do keep one or two available) and also have them set up for demo. Please give me a call to arrange a visit. Come armed with CDs/DVDs and be prepared to be blown away.

Thanks,
Greg
G.E. Technology, Inc.
510-595-2278


Damn you sound like a cool dealer. The dealers locally to me royally suck :mad: .
Their demo to me was HORRIBLE.

72 pages read over the course of a few days, but I'm caught up now!

I'm in the process of picking out a sub for my HT, and can admit that I didn't spend this much effort picking out my processor, amp, or speakers.

Currently I've got a REL B1 and B&W ASW 855 on loan from a local dealer. Suprisingly I couldn't find a JL dealer in the Chicago area last weekend (you'd think living in the third largest market in the U.S. wouldn't present that problem), but it seems JL just got a few dealers in place this week. So I have access to an f112 pretty much anytime, but will need to hear an f113 to make sure I'm not missing anything. Looking forward to the demo in my 2500+ sq ft room when the time comes. So far I can say that I've been impressed with everyone I've talked to, either at JL or one of their marketing or dealer associates.

I've noticed no one mentioned that they auditioned any Genelec subs when deciding what sub to purchase. Curious if anyone has any feedback on them in relation to the JLs, as I'm trying to get one of them in for a demo too.

My fellow 'goners.....I was joking. Geez, talk about lightening up....please follow your own directive...

Cheers!
edited previous post / just hit me wrong



~Cheers!

kenny

No worries KShep!

Greg

72 pages read over the course of a few days, but I'm caught up now!

I'm in the process of picking out a sub for my HT, and can admit that I didn't spend this much effort picking out my processor, amp, or speakers.

Currently I've got a REL B1 and B&W ASW 855 on loan from a local dealer. Suprisingly I couldn't find a JL dealer in the Chicago area last weekend (you'd think living in the third largest market in the U.S. wouldn't present that problem), but it seems JL just got a few dealers in place this week. So I have access to an f112 pretty much anytime, but will need to hear an f113 to make sure I'm not missing anything. Looking forward to the demo in my 2500+ sq ft room when the time comes. So far I can say that I've been impressed with everyone I've talked to, either at JL or one of their marketing or dealer associates.

I've noticed no one mentioned that they auditioned any Genelec subs when deciding what sub to purchase. Curious if anyone has any feedback on them in relation to the JLs, as I'm trying to get one of them in for a demo too.

Wow, your local dealers let you try subs at home??? :eek:
Love to hear your opinion on the B&W ASW 855 as I was thinking of it to replace my ASW4000. I ended up with a pair of F113s but just curious now on how the 855 sounds.... :)

You guys have to try Smokin Aces dvd. It was released this Tuesday. The bass on Chapt 14, 1:15:20 is quite the insane bass. Check it out.

James

Wow, your local dealers let you try subs at home??? :eek:
Love to hear your opinion on the B&W ASW 855 as I was thinking of it to replace my ASW4000. I ended up with a pair of F113s but just curious now on how the 855 sounds.... :)
I can't imagine not demo-ing a sub first at home as the room is such a variable. But this place is fabulous about letting me take stuff, and I've spent a lot of coin there, and have sent family and friends there as well. Just to detail my relationship with them, I recently bought about $3800 worth of B&W speakers that got delivered to my house before I'd paid for them. And actually I didn't finally pay up until several days later thanks to water heater emergency and the store being closed per normal business hours.

I couldn't get the REL to integrate into my room, so I put the B&W in and have been quite please with it, although I will admit that I've only put about two hours on it. Oh, and the store didn't even have the B&W sub at the store - - they had to order it for me just to let me demo it at home. If anybody's in the Chicago area and wants to know who the store is post a reply here or PM me. I was told by a JL rep this week that they will be visiting this dealer to see if they'd be interested in carrying the Fathoms

Alright guys, need some assitance. I just received my new F113 and am trying to set up the ARO. The green light just keeps blinking. I think I've set it 20 times now. Any suggestions or tips?

thanks,
M1

The green light flashing most likely means you have the master level set either too high or too low. If the light is blinking fast, say 3 flashes per second, your level is set too high. If slower than 3 per second, then set your master level lower. This should take care of your situation and the light should stop after it sets itself.

Hope this helps!
Greg

Thanks greg,

I probably just need to keep playing with it. But I've gone from to high back to low and the green light keeps blinking.

I had the gain set between 2-3 o'clock for mine. You can turn it back down after calibration.

Use the owners manual to walk you through the procedure as a check list.

Make sure you have it switched over to variable from ref. That fixed it for me. I'm calibrating mine as I type. I was wondering if other people felt their F113 needed a break in period. Mine's ok, but it doesn't have the punch of the one I demoed in the showroom. Also my room is much smaller at around 1600 cubic feet.

I can't imagine not demo-ing a sub first at home as the room is such a variable. But this place is fabulous about letting me take stuff, and I've spent a lot of coin there, and have sent family and friends there as well. Just to detail my relationship with them, I recently bought about $3800 worth of B&W speakers that got delivered to my house before I'd paid for them. And actually I didn't finally pay up until several days later thanks to water heater emergency and the store being closed per normal business hours.

I couldn't get the REL to integrate into my room, so I put the B&W in and have been quite please with it, although I will admit that I've only put about two hours on it. Oh, and the store didn't even have the B&W sub at the store - - they had to order it for me just to let me demo it at home. If anybody's in the Chicago area and wants to know who the store is post a reply here or PM me. I was told by a JL rep this week that they will be visiting this dealer to see if they'd be interested in carrying the Fathoms

I totally agree that it would be ideal to demo a sub or a speaker at home and really that's what should be happening to justify a dealer's margin. The reality is I don't see it happening here (in Canada) and you should be happy you have a great dealer - take good care of him!

I stopped buying from "order-takers" and buy from different sources around the world. Just dropped a whack of money on a pair of ATC signature 100s sight unseen. Damn they sound great. Keep this thread alive so I can post pictures of my new setup with the dual F113s once Rives has finished with my room!

Hey TheEAR I just bought another giant ATC centre channel - tried to sell my other one (it doesn't match my other speakers) but Canadian cheapskates aren't offering me anything! I'll just use it as my rear speaker.

After being out of town a few days with my 113 unplugged, I noticed that there is a slight hum in either the auto or on position which is diminished slightly when I disconnect my balanced cable. Is it normal to have a slight hum when there is no signal. I have a Anthem Statement D2 prepro a dedicated 20 amp circuit.

That's odd. Does the switch on the back near the plug help? I think the switch helps with possible ground loops.

That's odd. Does the switch on the back near the plug help? I think the switch helps with possible ground loops.

tried that, didnt seem to make a difference.

The isolated/grounded switch only affects the unbalanced inputs.

It is normal for there to be a very low level of hum with no signal applied, but it should only be audible inches from the sub, certainly not from the listening position. If this is what you are experiencing, I wouldn't worry about it.

If it's audible and annoying at the listening position, I would check to see if a different AC outlet or circuit has similar issues. Sometimes other things connected to a circuit can cause hum issues (fluorescent fixtures and dimmers are common culprits).

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

The isolated/grounded switch only affects the unbalanced inputs.

It is normal for there to be a very low level of hum with no signal applied, but it should only be audible inches from the sub, certainly not from the listening position. If this is what you are experiencing, I wouldn't worry about it.

If it's audible and annoying at the listening position, I would check to see if a different AC outlet or circuit has similar issues. Sometimes other things connected to a circuit can cause hum issues (fluorescent fixtures and dimmers are common culprits).

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

I have 3 dedicated 20 amp circuits that all exhibit the same hum and nothing else is connected these are used for my mono blocks. The hum is barely detectable. When I am in the auto position how long before it should go to sleep? If I have a ground loop problem what can i do to rectify it?

It should shut off after approx. 30 minutes.

Just to clarify, the hum is barely detectable at the listening position or closer to the sub?

It should shut off after approx. 30 minutes.

Just to clarify, the hum is barely detectable at the listening position or closer to the sub?

At the listening position.

Okay, thanks.

If you can e-mail me or PM me your contact information I will have someone give you a call on Monday to see if we can help you find a solution to this.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Okay, thanks.

If you can e-mail me or PM me your contact information I will have someone give you a call on Monday to see if we can help you find a solution to this.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

This may or may not be related:

I have active ATCs and I noticed some "hum" coming from one of the speakers. Not from the driver but from the transformer. Short version of the story: I tightened the bolts holding the transformer together and it stopped. I believe it's called lamination rattle. Any chance this is going on?

Hey Manville. :D I think for the next 5 minutes, I'm the newest owner of an F113. Great product. Thanks.

Congratulations, JamesK8... and thank you.

Okay, thanks.

If you can e-mail me or PM me your contact information I will have someone give you a call on Monday to see if we can help you find a solution to this.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Sent a PM

This may or may not be related:

I have active ATCs and I noticed some "hum" coming from one of the speakers. Not from the driver but from the transformer. Short version of the story: I tightened the bolts holding the transformer together and it stopped. I believe it's called lamination rattle. Any chance this is going on?

Thanks for the input but everything is tight.

It might be my xlr cable as the hum is significantly less when it is not hooked up

Congratulations, JamesK8... and thank you.

msmith,

I bought a new F113 today and am trying to set up the ARO. I cannot for the life of me get this thing to accept the right settings. I have moved the sub to a couple of locations, taken the mic and moved all over the room. The sub works but I cannot get the ARO to work. Any ideas? I thought I had it right in one location but right before it ended I got the blinking lights. Thanks

M1

mfuller,

What have been the steps you have used so far in the set up process?

When does the blinking green light start to appear? More so, after what stage in the set up process does it appear?


Regards,
Mike

mfuller,

What have been the steps you have used so far in the set up process?

When does the blinking green light start to appear? More so, after what stage in the set up process does it appear?


Regards,
Mike

I have followed the directions in the manual. The blinking light starts early in the process.

Thanks,
M1

The ARO IMHO can be done differently. I saw 2 major drawbacks. First, it is single band, second it does not catch the pathological case (we have at least a couple of examples here). I know and understand that JL is trying to make it easy for the average user. Plug in a mic, press a button and voila. But the efficacy here is very inefficient.
JL, why not provide a manual di or tri band EQ rather than the ARO. Anyone spending this much money better be more equipped to measure FR in other ways and manually tame the peaks. Just a thought.

mfuller,

Make sure the "Level Mode" in Variable when attempting to run ARO.

Is the light blinking once per second (slow flash) or three times per second (rapid flash).

The slow flash means you need to turn the master level up. The rapid flash means you need to turn it down.

Also, did you turn off all fans and HVAC systems prior to running the calibrate routine?

Manville,

So how is the Gotham comming along? Will we get new pics and some eye candy,remember later this year I am getting one.

Looks like after some research, my D2 has a LFE bug, that can be corrected with a new a upgrade of the software. I found this out as I was leaving for a trip for the week. So I can only dream of what this baby is going to sound like.

I would also like to say, that the dealer I bought it from, said he will make sure it is set up correctly when he delivers the rest of my stuff. The only reason we didn't play it, was the kids were already asleep.

Michael

I upgrade the D2, and am playing with Happy Feet at this time. I am hearing more bass from the JL 113. I still need to play around with it, as I am not getting what I expected, but the good news it is getting better.

Thanks

Manville,

So how is the Gotham comming along? Will we get new pics and some eye candy,remember later this year I am getting one.
there are some pics already from the tour....more will be posted on the tour thread later today as well.

there are some pics already from the tour....more will be posted on the tour thread later today as well.

I saw a few thanks,

I wish I lived a bit closer,I would be there. Just from the few pics I can tell JL Audio is one serious company.First rate all around.

They are one of the few I will continue buying products from(subs)even with all the DIY madness in the works. :)

With all that is brewing around the corner is there going to be an exodus to DIY ? :)

^^^^^ I am done with subwoofer shopping (love my f113 too much),I wouldn't dream of spending my free time putting a box and electronics components together,just so can save some bucks,and higher spl. I have plenty thank you :D

djoel

^^^^^ I am done with subwoofer shopping (love my f113 too much),I wouldn't dream of spending my free time putting a box and electronics components together,just so can save some bucks,and higher spl. I have plenty thank you :D

djoel
Me neither. I am hiring a cabinet maker who does the job. No fancy electronics inside. Just the driver and that is it. It's not about just saving bucks and higher SPL but getting the best SQ and SPL you possiby can. The research is the fun part. In the past few days, I learned so much and that makes me very happy too. It is not exactly DIY in my case but DMY (Do Most Yourself).
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=836162

Indeed looks like you are having tons of fun, as a teen we would make subs/speaker and such for our cars, djaying, and block party in the Bronx where I grow up.They where quite the earth shakers.I remember many time Ms Lopez screaming her head off SHUT THAT THING DOWN MY KIDS ARE TRYING TO SLEEP! We would just ignore her, Oh the those hot hazy summer days...
Would love to see the end resolute, at that budget I am sure you'll get far more that we ever dream of, lucky for Ms Lopez and her kids...

Hey did you get your SMS1? I just purchased one at a great price brand new.

Good Luck with your project.

Daniel

I upgrade the D2, and am playing with Happy Feet at this time. I am hearing more bass from the JL 113. I still need to play around with it, as I am not getting what I expected, but the good news it is getting better.

Thanks

I have the D2 and 113 I am not aware of any LFE bug. What version of software are you running?

Is the light blinking once per second (slow flash) or three times per second (rapid flash).

The slow flash means you need to turn the master level up. The rapid flash means you need to turn it down.

Also, did you turn off all fans and HVAC systems prior to running the calibrate routine?


I finally got the ARO to work. Wierd, as I had to turn it almost to +15 for it to read. Now that I have this accomplished, I need to switch to ref and leave the gain as is or start to chagne. Any ideas on settings? Thanks,

M1

Originally Posted by m1fuller68
I finally got the ARO to work. Wierd, as I had to turn it almost to +15 for it to read. Now that I have this accomplished, I need to switch to ref and leave the gain as is or start to chagne. Any ideas on settings? Thanks,
+15??? There is no +15 on the f113. Just the gain.

You set the gain on the f113 for ARO calibration. Then you calibrate to your reference level.

I finally got the ARO to work. Wierd, as I had to turn it almost to +15 for it to read. Now that I have this accomplished, I need to switch to ref and leave the gain as is or start to chagne. Any ideas on settings? Thanks,

M1

Are you turning the right knob? I thought the only knob on the F113 with numbers is the phase knob. I may be wrong tho. :)

I finally got the ARO to work. Wierd, as I had to turn it almost to +15 for it to read. Now that I have this accomplished, I need to switch to ref and leave the gain as is or start to chagne. Any ideas on settings? Thanks,

M1

Good deal, glad to hear it... it's not uncommon to have to raise the level pretty high.

Now you can go back to reference and use your pre/pro or receiver to set the level (or use the f113's control if you prefer).

I've got an f112 in the house for a couple day demo and couldn't get the ARO to work either. Got the LED flash indicating the level wasn't high enough, but it was just about maxed out. But knowing that someone else had the same problem, I'll dial it up all the way and try it again.

I must say that at the moment I find the sub rather underwhelming compared to the others I have. But I'll be playing more with them on Sunday.

+15??? There is no +15 on the f113. Just the gain.

You set the gain on the f113 for ARO calibration. Then you calibrate to your reference level.

Their is a +15 on Master level...I have that set to the max. During bass scenes this thing should shake the house, correct? It isn't. Any ideas? Anyone?

I'm not familiar enough with your setup - most importantly your pre/pro or receiver, BUT,yes the f113 can shake your house.

Check all the settings on your processor, and make sure that you are sending an adequate signal to the sub. (SUB=Yes, Crossover setting, gain, etc)
I left my sub setting to variable, made sure I started with enough signal, so I could adjust it down after I was happy.
Check the phase. Try it in several possitions.
Move the sub to another location.

Keep trying -you'll be happy :) (unless your sub is malfunctioning :( )

I'm not familiar enough with your setup - most importantly your pre/pro or receiver, BUT,yes the f113 can shake your house.

Check all the settings on your processor, and make sure that you are sending an adequate signal to the sub. (SUB=Yes, Crossover setting, gain, etc)
I left my sub setting to variable, made sure I started with enough signal, so I could adjust it down after I was happy.
Check the phase. Try it in several possitions.
Move the sub to another location.

Keep trying -you'll be happy :) (unless your sub is malfunctioning :( )

Thanks John,

I will continue to test.

My current setup is as follows:

Pio Elite 84txi
Panny Blu-ray
Toshiba Xa2
Xbox 360
Samsung 1080p DLP 61"
Focal 836 speakers
Focal 800 cc
Focal SR800
JL Audio F113

Hopefully this afternoon I should have some time. IF not I will probably call JL audio.

I have the D2 and 113 I am not aware of any LFE bug. What version of software are you running?


It came with 1.10, upgraded to 1.11e and it seems to have fixed it.

^^^^^ I am done with subwoofer shopping (love my f113 too much),I wouldn't dream of spending my free time putting a box and electronics components together,just so can save some bucks,and higher spl. I have plenty thank you :D

djoel

Not to save a buck I assure you. I will buy the GOTHAM and SVS new Ultra 13.5...

The DIY(or truly do most of it myself) is to build something that cannot be purchased and and so large and heavy most would fart trying to lift one side. ;)
In other words I am looking at a sub flat to 16Hz even at near max output,and capable of over 125dB @ 16Hz @ listening position.

Try finding this...in stores or even online.

Originally Posted by m1fuller68
Their is a +15 on Master level...I have that set to the max. During bass scenes this thing should shake the house, correct? It isn't. Any ideas? Anyone?
I stand corrected. I missed the +15 on the master level.

Look at the LFE or sub channel on your receiver. Adjust it to 0dB for a start. Then increase it as necessary.

Not to save a buck I assure you. I will buy the GOTHAM and SVS new Ultra 13.5...

The DIY(or truly do most of it myself) is to build something that cannot be purchased and and so large and heavy most would fart trying to lift one side. ;)
In other words I am looking at a sub flat to 16Hz even at near max output,and capable of over 125dB @ 16Hz @ listening position.

Try finding this...in stores or even online.

One of the argument I hear about the DIYers is the saving aspect which is not an the most important issue for everyone, at time I seen some projects cost just as much as a commercial sub. Now for Me the biggest issue is size compact cabinet,and finish(and the all famous WAF) Back in the day I would build boxes, and attach car woofers like Pile drivers for Jamming at the parks in the city.
They where not the best Sq but the would move enormous amount of air, that was a long time ago.

Now if I can built something like the Gotham, design, finish,and not spend endless weekends on it I am there. No matter what the Lady of the house says. ;)

I've seen you took the plunge yourself, would love to see your finish project as well.
I am an audio fan,and I am always interested in reading ,and seeing these projects.

Good luck to you and Jai.

Daniel

DIY is definately interesting. I can't find any reason i'd want to get involved in it personally. I need the best i can get swiping my check card. Too much going on in life to build subs. Gimmie an SVS or JL and stick a fork in me.

I am really getting more happy with my JL 113 each time I play around with it. I am really thinking of buying a second one. The low bass is to die for, but I want more.

The question is, anyone buy a second one and regret it?

Thanks

Thanks John,

I will continue to test.

My current setup is as follows:

Pio Elite 84txi
Panny Blu-ray
Toshiba Xa2
Xbox 360
Samsung 1080p DLP 61"
Focal 836 speakers
Focal 800 cc
Focal SR800
JL Audio F113

Hopefully this afternoon I should have some time. IF not I will probably call JL audio.
What kind of setup/control do you have with the Pio 84txi with regard to speakers? (ie, is it small/large, or variable cross-over?)
What range of gain/gut for each channel?
Make sure you "night mode" (if you have one) is set to off.
Internal tone generator?
Do you have an SPL meter?

There are usually alot of different things that have major effect on sound, and sometimes, if just one is off, you could have no chance of good results until you change it.

Keep trying! :) (it'll also teach you more about your system and result in a better sound at the finish - if you ever stop adjusting :D )

I am really getting more happy with my JL 113 each time I play around with it. I am really thinking of buying a second one. The low bass is to die for, but I want more.

The question is, anyone buy a second one and regret it?

Thanks
My feelings exactly, - I think the regret would be in the pocketbook - think I'll wait for now. (Maybe with the the SVS Utlra 13, TC Sounds, Seaton SubMersive, BMF and others coming, f113 will drop in $$$ :D )

I am really getting more happy with my JL 113 each time I play around with it. I am really thinking of buying a second one. The low bass is to die for, but I want more.

The question is, anyone buy a second one and regret it?

Thanks

Think smart.

Run a frequency sweep to find out if you're sitting in a null. If you are, then adding more horsepower won't fix it.

What kind of setup/control do you have with the Pio 84txi with regard to speakers? (ie, is it small/large, or variable cross-over?)
What range of gain/gut for each channel?
Make sure you "night mode" (if you have one) is set to off.
Internal tone generator?
Do you have an SPL meter?

There are usually alot of different things that have major effect on sound, and sometimes, if just one is off, you could have no chance of good results until you change it.

Keep trying! :) (it'll also teach you more about your system and result in a better sound at the finish - if you ever stop adjusting :D )

Again, Thanks,

I have all set to small
sub channel gain is set to 0.0 the auto macc had set it to -6.0
Night is off
??? not sure what this means
Yes

I did some testing this afternoon and found a few things. I played with the xbox 360 with downloaded content from 300, transformers and silver surfer...almost blew the doors off. :o)...Next up the Panny bluray...blackhawk down and Happy feet same results...:)...put back in Smoking Aces and the one scene where the 50 cal goes off it sounded better...In summary, I think the XA2 has a LFE problem. I feel a hundred times better... The F113 sounds great...I still need to do alot of tweaking...Thanks again..

Again, Thanks,

I have all set to small
sub channel gain is set to 0.0 the auto macc had set it to -6.0
Night is off
??? not sure what this means
Yes

I did some testing this afternoon and found a few things. I played with the xbox 360 with downloaded content from 300, transformers and silver surfer...almost blew the doors off. :o)...Next up the Panny bluray...blackhawk down and Happy feet same results...:)...put back in Smoking Aces and the one scene where the 50 cal goes off it sounded better...In summary, I think the XA2 has a LFE problem. I feel a hundred times better... The F113 sounds great...I still need to do alot of tweaking...Thanks again..


The XA2 has a LFE bug, if you are using Analog cables. I understand that Toshiba is working on it.

Is that what cables you are using?

Michael

The XA2 has a LFE bug, if you are using Analog cables. I understand that Toshiba is working on it.

Is that what cables you are using?

Michael

No HDMI, I also went to the thread and found a fix. According to one of the posters you can set the speakers in the reciever to small and in the Xa2 to large. I tried it and it seems a littl better. According to the thread, toshiba should have a fix by may.

M1

No HDMI, I also went to the thread and found a fix. According to one of the posters you can set the speakers in the reciever to small and in the Xa2 to large. I tried it and it seems a littl better. According to the thread, toshiba should have a fix by may.

M1

If that is the case, we are in for a nice treat if there is a problem. I am using HDMI, and find the bass to be great, but if it gets better, HOLLY BATMAN!

Who's Holly? :)

M1,

Glad to see things are improving.

The F113 needs some tweaking to get dialed in and it seems you are on your way!

Now once calibrated (ARO) try using your prepro/AVR to controll output and crossover freq.

In a recent Stereophile the reviewer claims he put his B&W 802Ds (I think that is what he had) in "small" and got the best result. Imagine that...

In a recent Stereophile the reviewer claims he put his B&W 802Ds (I think that is what he had) in "small" and got the best result. Imagine that...Amazing but true. However, one needs to consider the actual in-room responses of the speakers as this is not a panacea.

I am really getting more happy with my JL 113 each time I play around with it. I am really thinking of buying a second one. The low bass is to die for, but I want more.

The question is, anyone buy a second one and regret it?

Thanks
I don't think 'regret' is the word I would pick. The additional sub does make dialing things in a bit trickier. My dealer is scheduled to visit with some test equipment , but for now co-locating is working best for me.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2879/kshepjlfathomfz3.th.jpg (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kshepjlfathomfz3.jpg)

I don't think 'regret' is the word I would pick. The additional sub does make dialing things in a bit trickier. My dealer is scheduled to visit with some test equipment , but for now co-locating is working best for me.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2879/kshepjlfathomfz3.th.jpg (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kshepjlfathomfz3.jpg)
I have to be the first to ask; wtf is that weird thing in the corner? :D

I have to be the first to ask; wtf is that weird thing in the corner? :D

Just noticed! Looks like a basket full of...peanuts! Maybe those are magic peanuts ,you place one on each Fathom to reduce the bad vibes. The basket acts like bass trap! :p

I have to be the first to ask; wtf is that weird thing in the corner? :D
It is a Fluggensnaffler from the Austrian Alps. :)

Actually, TheEAR is very close. It is a woven basket that has a lid with a wroght iron handle. This handle allows the lid to hang from the lip of the basket.

The basket is almost filled with wine corks.

I moved the basket to this corner to act a s a bass trap....it does seem to improve the room acoustics.

Just noticed! Looks like a basket full of...peanuts! Maybe those are magic peanuts ,you place one on each Fathom to reduce the bad vibes. The basket acts like bass trap! :p

No, it's a megaphone so his wife can tell him to "TURN THAT DAMN RACKET DOWN" when he's playing with the subs. :D

No, it's a megaphone so his wife can tell him to "TURN THAT DAMN RACKET DOWN" when he's playing with the subs. :D

LOL...ckeck profile for 'why' LOL

LOL...ckeck profile for 'why' LOL


So, how far do you hit the PW?

So, how far to you hit the PW?
48º PW is good for 120 if no breeze....I don't like playing in the wind but can punch a two groover down low if I have to.

The house is sadly a rental property now. It was for sale but priced far above market value so the owners turned it over to a local realtor...college kids have destroyed the yard by parking their cars in it.

Amazing but true. However, one needs to consider the actual in-room responses of the speakers as this is not a panacea.

KR,

From the man himself.

Now that's devotion to your job, hobby and adiction...

M1,

Glad to see things are improving.

The F113 needs some tweaking to get dialed in and it seems you are on your way!

Now once calibrated (ARO) try using your prepro/AVR to controll output and crossover freq.

In a recent Stereophile the reviewer claims he put his B&W 802Ds (I think that is what he had) in "small" and got the best result. Imagine that...

Thanks, Mike...sounding better every day. :D

After being out of town a few days with my 113 unplugged, I noticed that there is a slight hum in either the auto or on position which is diminished slightly when I disconnect my balanced cable. Is it normal to have a slight hum when there is no signal. I have a Anthem Statement D2 prepro a dedicated 20 amp circuit.


I have been able to significantly reduce the hum by using a 3 to 2 adapter. Not sure if this will cause me other issues or voids the warranty.

I have been able to significantly reduce the hum by using a 3 to 2 adapter. Not sure if this will cause me other issues or voids the warranty.

You have a ground loop. I would look into obtaining a ground loop isolator. I believe they sell them at Radio Shack.

You have a ground loop. I would look into obtaining a ground loop isolator. I believe they sell them at Radio Shack.


I think I will try another brand since the only one from Radio Shack I can fine is for RCA and not XLR

Thought I'd share a funny thought. So I've been breaking in my F113 and letting it play movies while I do tasks around the house. So today I was in the other room I realized things were rattling. It's not like I had things rocking. I was at -23 on my receiver and I certainly couldn't hear the movie. However, I could certainly feel things moving. Lol. So I was thinking what it would be like if I was a non audio neighbor was in their house and things just started rattling for no damn reason. Aliens! Lol!

Yep, it does that, be careful of foundation cracks :)

Thought I'd share a funny thought. So I've been breaking in my F113 and letting it play movies while I do tasks around the house. So today I was in the other room I realized things were rattling. It's not like I had things rocking. I was at -23 on my receiver and I certainly couldn't hear the movie. However, I could certainly feel things moving. Lol. So I was thinking what it would be like if I was a non audio neighbor was in their house and things just started rattling for no damn reason. Aliens! Lol!
-23 and things moving???
This does not sound right. Do you have your sub calibrated way too hot?
With dual f113s when I pushed them to limits (118dB at LP) and this was at MV +5 with sub calibrated hot in some of the most intense bass movie tracks that is when little things started falling off the walls. BTW, that SPL was still not enough for me :D, go figure.
Enjoy your sub.

Lol! My shower doors rattle a few rooms away. I didn't notice till I was not in the theater room. I'm only running it a little hot right now but my theater room is small.

Sounds like you need some more F113's or be like TheEar and buy some Gothams to go with your F113's. Lol!

I'm breaking my new 113 in. I have done a rough calibration for sound level and room placement using AVIA and the RIVES test cd, along with my trusty Rat Shack SPL meter..... and even when using the manual attenuation knob on the front set all the way to the left, my response jumps 10db from about 31hz all the way to the lowest tones on the RIVES cd..... which rattles windows on the other side of the house, but is too low for me to hear.... and must be because of room modes, I guess. I haven't used the the auto calibration yet because there's something dodgy with my mic, which my dealer [thanks Greg!] and JL are working out. I'm guessing that might smooth out that range? In any event, this is definitely an impressive piece of engineering and I'm looking forward to getting it fully dialed in.

nathan,

Are you using the compensations numbers for the spl meter?

The RIVES test cd has two sets of test signal tracks: Accurate tracks for use with an accurate SPL meter, and then a whole separate set of tracks that are adjusted to compensate for the radio shack analog SPL meter's inaccuracies.

So I'm using the test tracks designed for my meter.

BUT, are there additional compensating factors I should take into account?

nathan,

I've seen several different compensation list. It would be hard to say which is more accurate than another.

I'd use the tones that already have the compensation.

Fair enough. I figure (assumptions are dangerous, I know) that Rives knows what they are doing since this is their area of specialization and they're one of the leading practitioners. In fact, that's why I spent $20 on a test CD from them, rather than downloading free tones from the internet.

--

In other news, the Bay Area rep for JL (Brian) brought over a new mic & cable, and it turns out the cable I had received in the box was dodgy. He left his cable with me as an interim solution, and JL is overnighting a new one to me. Top notch customer service in my opinion AND it was great to have another expert set of ears to consult on my room and make some additional recommendations about settings and placement.

That's great service Nathan. Gotta love when people care enough to give good service.

Fair enough. I figure (assumptions are dangerous, I know) that Rives knows what they are doing since this is their area of specialization and they're one of the leading practitioners. In fact, that's why I spent $20 on a test CD from them, rather than downloading free tones from the internet.

--

In other news, the Bay Area rep for JL brought over a new mic & cable, and it turns out the cable I had received in the box was dodgy. He left his cable with me as an interim solution, and JL is overnighting a new one to me. Top notch customer service in my opinion AND it was great to have another expert set of ears to consult on my room and make some additional recommendations about settings and placement.
Nathan,
Color me skeptical. I don't believe/like the ARO. Get yourself an external EQ and some real software to calibrate your awesome sub. It is worth every penny investing in calibration IMHO. THe ARO is single band and it "does not"/"did not" capture pathological cases at least in 2 cases here. I don't believe in it and that's just me. Invest in a an external EQ. I once owned dual f113s so I know what they are ;)

Well I definitely won't blindly assume it works. But I'm going to give it a shot, once I feel I've finally settled on a proper place and suite of settings for the sub.

I repositioned the sub this evening, and went to run the ARO again, and found it didn't work, again. I think perhaps the rep -- though he intended to leave his cable with me -- may have actually left me with my old cable. But I didn't really have time to bust out the SPL meter, run through tones, etc., which I'd also want to do, before rendering any judgment.

Assuming I decide the ARO doesn't cut it in my situation, what software and hardware are you recommending? Something like the Velodyne SMS?

Don't forget to run the sub for a bit. My F113 sounded horrible till I ran the unit for a few hours. The speaker will loosen up and then you shoul rerun the Aro. It works better afterwards. At least, that's how it worked for me. :D

Well I definitely won't blindly assume it works. But I'm going to give it a shot, once I feel I've finally settled on a proper place and suite of settings for the sub.

I repositioned the sub this evening, and went to run the ARO again, and found it didn't work, again. I think perhaps the rep -- though he intended to leave his cable with me -- may have actually left me with my old cable. But I didn't really have time to bust out the SPL meter, run through tones, etc., which I'd also want to do, before rendering any judgment.

Assuming I decide the ARO doesn't cut it in my situation, what software and hardware are you recommending? Something like the Velodyne SMS?

Can you describe how it didn't work... did you get slow flashing light or rapid flashing light after the failed calibration? Did you turn off the HVAC system in the house before calibration?

Well I definitely won't blindly assume it works. But I'm going to give it a shot, once I feel I've finally settled on a proper place and suite of settings for the sub.

I repositioned the sub this evening, and went to run the ARO again, and found it didn't work, again. I think perhaps the rep -- though he intended to leave his cable with me -- may have actually left me with my old cable. But I didn't really have time to bust out the SPL meter, run through tones, etc., which I'd also want to do, before rendering any judgment.

Assuming I decide the ARO doesn't cut it in my situation, what software and hardware are you recommending? Something like the Velodyne SMS?
Yes, an SMS-1 is a good choice. I use a Rane PE-17 which keeps everything in the analog domain (I like that) but gives up on the precision offered by DEQ. However, in my mind, EQ is a one time setup (hopefully) and if done, well, set it and forget it and enjoy.
I have retained the Rane for years now. It allows me to EQ down to 10Hz which the SMS-1 does not. I use ETF acoustic on a PC to measure FR using a Galaxy CM-140 meter/mic that requires minimal/no correction. The RS meters are not consistent and hence the correction files are not that accurate all the time.

I think Mr. Smith, may have a point. Try out everything that he says before you decide on a external EQ and software. If you decide so, the SMS-1 is good enough as there is not much below 16Hz that your sub will deliver.

Can you describe how it didn't work... did you get slow flashing light or rapid flashing light after the failed calibration? Did you turn off the HVAC system in the house before calibration?


Sorry for the vague description ("didn't work"). What I meant is that I get no test tones at all, even with the mic plugged in and all the switches and dials set as instructed.

I'm 99% sure that the very helpful and knowledgable rep (who actually offered to return and help me get it dialed in better, at a later date, if I wanted) who brought over his own mic and cable accidentally left me with my old my mic cable (which we determined was faulty) instead of leaving his with me as an interim measure until my new one shows up (probably today via fedex).

Bottom line: Sure it's not fun to have a problem with a new piece of expensive (to me!) gear. But I think the effort made by all involved (local dealer, and area rep, and, I think, the staff in Florida) has been as good as I could ask for. Even with the best Q/A process, things happen, so the proof is in the response.

That said, maybe there IS some use error going on here -- though in that case both the dealer and the area rep were making the same error, since they both spent time with my gear and had the same issue -- until swapping out the mic cable.

(My only fear is that he DID leave his mic cable AND something about my sub BROKE his mic cable. That seems really unlikely. Guess I'll know more when my new cable arrives. Gotta make sure the lady of the house knows to listen for and sign for a FedEx package today, while I'm away from the house at meetings!)

Hmmm.... that is strange. Let's hope the new mic cable fixes the problem. The ARO will not run at all if the Fathom does not sense a mic plugged in. This is to prevent accidental recalibration attempts. If one of the conductors on the cable or on the plugs or jack is faulty then the Fathom senses no mic and you have the problem you're describing.

Thanks for the clarification.

Don't forget to run the sub for a bit. My F113 sounded horrible till I ran the unit for a few hours. The speaker will loosen up and then you shoul rerun the Aro. It works better afterwards. At least, that's how it worked for me. :D

That's really bizarre. Mine worked just great out of the box (after calibration and crossover tunning) even better after the ARO. What exactly do you mean "sounded horrible"? :confused:

Ok to clarify horrible, it didn't hit low very well out of the box. In fact I was worried that it was broken. After about 4 hours of movies it started sounding better and better. The depth and punch I felt at the dealer showroom started appearing. After a few more hours I reran the ARO and it sounded much better. It's not that it was boomy. It just wasn't making much boom at all.

Ok to clarify horrible, it didn't hit low very well out of the box. In fact I was worried that it was broken. After about 4 hours of movies it started sounding better and better. The depth and punch I felt at the dealer showroom started appearing. After a few more hours I reran the ARO and it sounded much better. It's not that it was boomy. It just wasn't making much boom at all.Did you measure anything before and after? I suspect you simply adapted to it.

The JL subs are cleaner than most,and this leaves an impression on lack of boom.

IMO

Hi Kal. You're right. I should have made some measurements right there, but a panicked call to my friend suggested that I wait a bit. The only way to show the difference would have been what I heard when I hit the defeat button. When I listened and calibrated with the ARO in the beginning the difference with the defeat on wasn't noticeable. After a few hours hitting the defeat button yielded an entired different sounding sub. I ended up recalibrating after that and was happy with the new results and did not have to push the sub. I should have mapped out a sweep. I'll be sure to do that in the future.

TheEar. It is really clean. I worried about that too, but it works great for me now.

Hi Kal. You're right. I should have made some measurements right there, but a panicked call to my friend suggested that I wait a bit. The only way to show the difference would have been what I heard when I hit the defeat button. When I listened and calibrated with the ARO in the beginning the difference with the defeat on wasn't noticeable. After a few hours hitting the defeat button yielded an entired different sounding sub. I ended up recalibrating after that and was happy with the new results and did not have to push the sub. I should have mapped out a sweep. I'll be sure to do that in the future.

TheEar. It is really clean. I worried about that too, but it works great for me now.
The ARO captures a single peak and tames it. It does not always capture the highest peak. So before your sub broke in (implied in your statement), with or without defeat, the sub sounded about the same. This implies that the peak that was captured by ARO and tamed was non existent or very mild. However, after your sub broke in, that peak came into existence, and now with and without defeat you hear a difference. In other words, what you say implies that there was no peak before break in and there is now after break in which the ARO tames. You also said that the depth and punch opened up which means across the board there was an improvement.
While some speakers do require break-in, with the f113, that was not my experience. Brand new, they sounded awesome.
Does not matter what happened but your experience is unique but now that you are happy, that's what matters.
Enjoy your sub.

I don't know that I would say his case in unique. I fell that my JL is getting better the more use it gets.

Michael

Perhaps Mr. Smith can comment on break-in.

Frankly, I am skeptical that break-in is the issue, in this frequency range especially. I think that the effects of room modes, sub positioning, EQ, etc. are overwhelmingly dominant and that the adaptation of the listening the major variable.

Agreed,room modes and proper positioning can make any subwoofer sound anemic in one position and mighty potent in another.

I had a pair of sealed Sunfire subs ...in a nasty spot.It was like they were sitting in a black hole for subsonics.And then I moved them about a foot forward...what a huge gain,I had to reduce the gain several notches and it was golden.

The ARO captures a single peak and tames it. It does not always capture the highest peak. So before your sub broke in ....

What are you saying, Jai?. Wrong!

From page 36, paragraph K of the JL Audio Fathom owner's manual.
"Since the A.R.O.will smooth the largest peak in the bass response at the listening seat, the apparent subwoofer level may appear lower."

Enphasis mine.

If the ARO did not deal with the largest peak, there would be no point!

What are you saying, Jai?. Wrong!

From page 36, paragraph K of the JL Audio Fathom owner's manual.
"Since the A.R.O.will smooth the largest peak in the bass response at the listening seat, the apparent subwoofer level may appear lower."

Enphasis mine.

If the ARO did not deal with the largest peak, there would be no point!
John,
It was designed to deal with the largest peak, but there were at least 2 members here whose experience was different and dealt with the smaller peak. I don't know what went wrong but that is what 2 users observed. I think one was "Vishal" and I don't remember the other gentleman (frockc?).
Well John, I hope we have put behind all our past indifferences :).
I apologize for whatever happened between us earlier. I saw a few of your posts and you are always ready to jump up and help someone and I appreciate that. I think I just tickled your wrong nerve and vice-versa. We both have the same passion.
Take care,
-Jai

Ok. Here it is
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=736243&page=187&pp=10
I stand corrected. It does catch the larger peak. I think what I was trying to say was, it should have caught the more pathological case. The ARO should have had a larger Q so it could have tamed the 25-50Hz plateau. The peak was just 4dB and narrow Q whereas the plateau was a whopping 8 dB. Of course, there are limitations to single band auto-eq.

John,
It was designed to deal with the largest peak, but there were at least 2 members here whose experience was different and dealt with the smaller peak. I don't know what went wrong but that is what 2 users observed. I think one was "Vishal" and I don't remember the other gentleman (frockc?).
Well John, I hope we have put behind all our past indifferences :).
I apologize for whatever happened between us earlier. I saw a few of your posts and you are always ready to jump up and help someone and I appreciate that. I think I just tickled your wrong nerve and vice-versa. We both have the same passion.
Take care,
-Jai

Jai. Why don't you stop this BS and, for once, admit you are wrong!
Are you saying that JL does not know how their stuff works?
Stop missinforming. And stop the BS.

Jai. Why don't you stop this BS and, for once, admit you are wrong!
Are you saying that JL does not know how their stuff works?
Stop missinforming. And stop the BS.
Didn't I just admit I was wrong :).
And for once, take it easy and you will live longer.