Just thought some of you here would be interested. I'm coming from a Velo CT-150 and had good intentions of comparing it to my new HO. One quick listen to the HO and the CT-150 has now been unplugged and in the washer room ever since :D . Keep it comin' Craig.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2275

Interesting...so the final version of the VTF-3 HO ($799), in 22Hz mode, delivers measured performance that falls between the PBS12-Plus/2 ($1199) and Velodyne DD-18 ($4499).

With the Turbo eyesore installed ($899), the VTF-3 HO performs 2-3dB under the DD-18.

Looking forward to more detailed measurements / tests.

Let's see if we can keep this nice ... :)

Velodyne DD-18 on Lightning scene ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/velowotw1.jpg

DD-18 on Pods Emerge scene ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/velowotw2.jpg

Hsu VTF-3 HO in 22 Hz setting, Lightning Scene ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/hsulgtnotrbo.jpg

Hsu VTF-3 HO in 22 Hz setting, Pods emerge scene ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/hsupodsnotrbo.jpg

SVS PB12-Plus/2 in 20 Hz tuning, Lightning Scene ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/svslgt20hz.jpg

SVS PB12-Plus/2 in 20 Hz tuning, Pods emerge scene ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/svspods20hz.jpg

Hsu VTF-3 HO Turbo Lightning scene...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/hsulgttrbo.jpg

Hsu VTF-3 HO Turbo Pods emerge scene ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/hsupodstrbo.jpg

It would be easier to compare if you overlaid the graphs, craig. :)

Will you be conducting any further tests soon? Would like to see how 16hz tune compared to 22hz tune.

bfdtv - the bottom 2 graphs were done in the 16 Hz tuning with the Turbo installed. I am hoping we get lucky and get some warm, dry days before winter rolls in, so some 2 meter GP tests can be done.

We have had the wettest, coldest October I can recall.

I don't yet no how to overlay the graphs .. JeffD2 has done some for me in the past, and if anyone wants to do some overlays, feel free.

It would be easier to compare if you overlaid the graphs, craig. :)

Will you be conducting any further tests soon? Would also like to see the HO at a different tune.
What other tunes? He has shown 22hz...which is no Turbo both ports open, and 16hz tune with Turbo both ports open. The only configuration left is 16hz/no Turbo/one port open.

There is one config that does not have an amp setting. That would be Turbo with one port. Supposedly this is around a 12hz tune.

Curtis, I had not identified the last graphs as being in the 16 Hz setting, and that was "my bad", as I went under the assumption everyone knew that adding the turbo meant the 16 Hz setting was the ONLY way to use the Turbo.

You know what they say about ASSuming ... :o

Curtis, I had not identified the last graphs as being in the 16 Hz setting, and that was "my bad", as I went under the assumption everyone knew that adding the turbo meant the 16 Hz setting was the ONLY way to use the Turbo.

You know what they say about ASSuming ... :o
Ahhh, "my bad" too....I was ASSuming the same thing. :)

Hi Craig,

For the sake of clarity and understanding what we are seeing, were these all at the same main volume settings or do these correspond to a maximum level before audible distress?

Mark ... These are max output before audible distortion is noticeable. I also had the SPL meter next to the microphone, and checked SPL levels there against what was showing on the TrueRTA screen ... it was always within 2 dB.

I also ran the subs @ about 10 dB "hot" ... to keep my sanity.

Basically, what you are seeing is an in room, Let's torture each subwoofer with a devastating disc and see what they can do, session.

Wow 10 dB hot, Craig when you're not testing and just watching a movie how hot do you normally run your sub(s)?

Also what was your MV on when you made these graphs and do you use AVIA or VE when calibrating?

I normally run 2 dB hot, just for the extra impact. I am not even watching the movie for these scenes. What I have learned about this disc is to set dialogue at appx. 70 dB ... then turn the sub output up by an extra 7-8 dB, and run the scenes while watching the meters. I then usually work a few extra dB in output during these scenes before hitting the max each sub can do.

I know it may sound unusual, but what I am trying to find out is how hard can these subs deliver the bass in these scenes.

It is not even close to how I listen normally.

I do find it interesting and informative as each sub is in the same spot, in the same room, playing the same scenes in a "peak hold" setting for this particular exercise.

Wow, the lightning scene likes the turbo. Looks like you lose ~3dB around 46Hz to gain about 7dB at 12 Hz? Interesting (if that's a valid conclusion from such information).

Jon - The Turbo does add a nice element of that infrasonic, tactile feel to the bass response. Obviously, I have had a lot of subwoofers through our systems here, and most of them have been excellent performers.

The new PB12-Plus/2 is, in its own right, a very good subwoofer. It is deep, powerful, and "tight".

However, in direct A/B comparisons, subjectively, the VTF-3HO is actually even better. It has more of that percussive ability of the DD-18, and also energizes the room with more pressure than does the SVS.

The SVS does move a little more air in the 30 Hz region, but the Hsu is a better balanced overall package.

It is remarkable for a single 12 inch driver design.

Does this mean someone should run out and sell his SVS ? No.

Does this mean everyone will experience what I am here ? No.

Does this mean Hsu is back in the game with an excellent performer that goes toe to toe with any subwoofer under $1500 ? Absolutely.

We have a lot more "work" to be done here - including running dual HO's, and trying the single driver Ultra against the HO.

Hopefully, we can keep this "nice", and get more results.

Running dual HOs?

How about a Running Ho Duel? It's like a women's college track meet gone bad...

Running dual HOs?

How about a Running Ho Duel? It's like a women's college track meet gone bad...
OK Jonny...you have to redeem yourself for that one. :D

Yeah that was pretty bad wasn't it? :)

Yeah that was pretty bad wasn't it? :)
Yeah, you seem to have better lines in the evening and after a beer or two. :D

Craig,
If you can do acomparison of the data for the VTF3 MKII and the VTF3 HO , I would appreciate it. I know you probably just have graphs and not the actual units.

Thanks for spending the time to do these comparisons.

Yeah, you seem to have better lines in the evening and after a beer or two. :D

Lol, that actually does make me feel a little better. :p

Hey Curtis - you are good luck. Fedex just pulled up and I now have a new HO driver. No I didn't keep the cute Fedex employee...sheesh. (I made that terrible on purpose...I swear)

Craig,
If you can do acomparison of the data for the VTF3 MKII and the VTF3 HO , I would appreciate it. I know you probably just have graphs and not the actual units.

Thanks for spending the time to do these comparisons.

Call me crazy but I think I'd also like to see Ilkka get his hands on one - so we'd have the shack graphs to check out as a basis of comparison.

Agreed about Illka and it would be nice if HSU would actually put up some frequency response graphs on their own website for "each" of their subs.
That way you can easily compare their own data amongst each other and if we get some more datapoints outside of their data we can start making educated extrapolations.

Ed Mullen or Ilkka measurements would be pretty nice on this sub.... :)

Ed Mullen or Ilkka measurements would be pretty nice on this sub.... :)

At this point your gonna have to wait until the spring thaw. :p

Lightning scene- DD18 may be +- 1/2 dB

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/JeffD2/lightningoverlay.jpg

Don't have time to do the pod scene right now, son's basketball season in full swing.

I'm lovin' this...

...sounds of crickets! :)

Jeff - you are the man. Thank you. Just for clarity's sake, is that +/- 1/2dB or +/- 1 to 2dB for the Velo?

Great info guys. Keep it coming. What I am enjoying is seeing how close the competition is becoming. All three of these are excellent subwoofers.

-Eli

Hello - would it be safe to say then - that this would be a definate upgrade from my SVS 20-30 PC+ using their latest 12.3 driver? From this thread it appears to be a definate yes.

I have had a pre-order in since February and to be frank I forgot about it completely until HSU called.

I originally was planning to sell the SVS when the HO was ready. Not so sure now.

Thoughts?

Eli ... You nailed it ... all three are just outstanding. In fact, I may try the SVS with the baseplate off - my previous Plus/2 (.2) sounded better as did the Ultra, in this room. For the $$$$, both the Plus/2 12.3 and VTF-3 HO are REALLY impressive.

Mucho, Absolutely, for the few $$$$, the upgrade is well worth it. Should you sell your current sub and grab the HO, or just upgrade the current ? That is a very close call.

Where is the VTF-3 HO on the HSU site?

dlipter

Never mind..........http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=703464&highlight=hsu+vs+rythmik

Keep in mind the VTF-3 HO is heavily backordered, you won't be able to get one until late November or early December if you order now.

Jeff - you are the man. Thank you. Just for clarity's sake, is that +/- 1/2dB or +/- 1 to 2dB for the Velo?

+- one half dB. It was a bit tricky because of the different dB SPL scale used for the DD18. :)

Jon - The Turbo does add a nice element of that infrasonic, tactile feel to the bass response. Obviously, I have had a lot of subwoofers through our systems here, and most of them have been excellent performers.

The new PB12-Plus/2 is, in its own right, a very good subwoofer. It is deep, powerful, and "tight".

However, in direct A/B comparisons, subjectively, the VTF-3HO is actually even better. It has more of that percussive ability of the DD-18, and also energizes the room with more pressure than does the SVS.

The SVS does move a little more air in the 30 Hz region, but the Hsu is a better balanced overall package.

It is remarkable for a single 12 inch driver design.

Does this mean someone should run out and sell his SVS ? No.

Does this mean everyone will experience what I am here ? No.

Does this mean Hsu is back in the game with an excellent performer that goes toe to toe with any subwoofer under $1500 ? Absolutely.

We have a lot more "work" to be done here - including running dual HO's, and trying the single driver Ultra against the HO.

Hopefully, we can keep this "nice", and get more results.
Now I know you know this but the PB-12/2 can be tuned to 16 hz as well, and in my opinion that's were that sub performs best.It would do the same thing, it would add a bit below and at the tuning point while it would loose some above 25hz. Did you test it in 16hz tune?

If someone could fill me in.....

What was "wrong" with the original driver/amp?

What was "wrong" with the original driver/amp?

There was some driver "popping" at higher volumes.

Now I know you know this but the PB-12/2 can be tuned to 16 hz as well, and in my opinion that's were that sub performs best.It would do the same thing, it would add a bit below and at the tuning point while it would loose some above 25hz. Did you test it in 16hz tune?

As long as noone lectures me later that the Plus/2 is under ported in the 16 Hz tune, sure ... :D

Seriously, this process will be something that will evolve throughout the cold weather season, which is MONTHS on the Great Lakes, so absolutely, we will be trying a lot of different configurations.

I may also re-run these graphs using the "slowest but more accurate" 20 Hz speed setting for TrueRTA ... it will give lower SPL results, but it will for ALL the subs, and it is a relative level we are looking for.

I may also re-run these graphs using the "slowest but more accurate" 20 Hz speed setting for TrueRTA ... it will give lower SPL results, but it will for ALL the subs, and it is a relative level we are looking for.

Craig how about graphing them at your movie watching level and see if there is a difference verses just cranking them wide open.

At the price of the HO it looks hard to pass up. Craig would you say these sub sound a like or different since the DD-18 is sealed and the others are ported.
Allen

Now I know you know this but the PB-12/2 can be tuned to 16 hz as well, and in my opinion that's were that sub performs best.It would do the same thing, it would add a bit below and at the tuning point while it would loose some above 25hz. Did you test it in 16hz tune?
The advantage with the HO/Turbo is that in 16hz tune, it does not lose porting area.

>The advantage with the HO/Turbo is that in 16hz tune, it does not lose porting area.

That extension thing puts the "UGH!" in ugly, though.

>The advantage with the HO/Turbo is that in 16hz tune, it does not lose porting area.

That extension thing puts the "UGH!" in ugly, though.
Definitely not for everybody. In person, it really does not look bad. Like some people, it does not photograph well :). I prefer the look of the faux maple that I saw.

No questioning its value for added performance.

Craig how about graphing them at your movie watching level and see if there is a difference verses just cranking them wide open.

At the price of the HO it looks hard to pass up. Craig would you say these sub sound a like or different since the DD-18 is sealed and the others are ported.
Allen

Allen ... You have a couple of good ideas here ... as both your ideas are going to be part of the testing process. :)

I would say the between now and Thanksgiving, we will have catalogued a lot of information on the first group of subwoofers (PB12-Ultra, PB12-Plus/2, VTF-3HO, Maestro, and DD-18).

Craig, again, this is shaping up to be a great line up with tons of fantastic info. I just want to say thanks for all of the work that you put into to these tests.

I have been trolling around the HSU website and haven't seen any picks of this HO/Turbo. I am curious as so many people have commented on its "only a mother could love it" appearance.

Could someone post a link?

I would say the between now and Thanksgiving, we will have catalogued a lot of information on the first group of subwoofers (PB12-Ultra, PB12-Plus/2, VTF-3HO, Maestro, and DD-18).Any chance you could add PB12-ND to the mix? Also, is VTF-3HO (without the turbo) a lot more than VTF-3 MK2? The only reason I'm asking is that both PB12-ND and VTF-3 MK2 have been recommended to me for my application and I'm trying to figure out how to decide which one I should go with. Thanks.

Craig, again, this is shaping up to be a great line up with tons of fantastic info. I just want to say thanks for all of the work that you put into to these tests.

Craig, I would like to second this. I enjoy your write ups very much.
Allen

I have been trolling around the HSU website and haven't seen any picks of this HO/Turbo. I am curious as so many people have commented on its "only a mother could love it" appearance.

Could someone post a link?
Here is a picture I took at the HE Show this past June:

http://changpics.smugmug.com/photos/73261388-M.jpg

And here is a magazine ad/brochure:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18898&postcount=9

Here is a theater with dual HO's /w Turbos:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19333&postcount=38

I have been trolling around the HSU website and haven't seen any picks of this HO/Turbo. I am curious as so many people have commented on its "only a mother could love it" appearance.

Could someone post a link?

Curtis posted some good pics. Don't forget that the Turbo is optional, and as evidenced by Craigs preliminary graphs isn't required for good performance. It's also very easy to install/remove if you'd rather only have it out while doing a movie, etc.

Pods overlay-
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/JeffD2/podsoverlay.jpg

Much appreciated and duly noted on the Turbo.

Any chance you could add PB12-ND to the mix? Also, is VTF-3HO (without the turbo) a lot more than VTF-3 MK2? The only reason I'm asking is that both PB12-ND and VTF-3 MK2 have been recommended to me for my application and I'm trying to figure out how to decide which one I should go with. Thanks.

I've owned a dual VTF-3 MK2 setup and a single VTF-3 MK2 w/HO Turbo setup at different times and I've sold both MK2 subs for the HO. The HO is a lot more than the MK2. The HO moves so much air with the huge 4" ports that even without the turbo the HO clearly out does a MK2. The MK2 is a great sub but it's no match for the HO.

I've owned a dual VTF-3 MK2 setup and a single VTF-3 MK2 w/HO Turbo setup at different times and I've sold both MK2 subs for the HO. The HO is a lot more than the MK2. The HO moves so much air with the huge 4" ports that even without the turbo the HO clearly out does a MK2. The MK2 is a great sub but it's no match for the HO.Wow! One HO is better than two MK2! You also come out ahead money wise.

Wonder why Hsu decided to still call it VTF-3 rather than giving it an unmistakenly new identity like VTF-4.

Wow! One HO is better than two MK2! You also come out ahead money wise.

Wonder why Hsu decided to still call it VTF-3 rather than giving it an unmistakenly new identity like VTF-4.

IMHO the VTF-3 MK2 subs were better in the mid and upper bass than the HO w/turbo, but down low the the dual MK2 subs just can't keep up. I would say the HO w/turbo and the dual MK2 setup were really close SPL wise at 20Hz, but around 18Hz and below the HO pulls ahead and has a tactile feeling that is really sick. The dual MK2 has the tactile feeling but not like the HO. Even though the dual MK2 subs move a lot of air they just don't pressurize the room the way the HO w/turbo does.

When I had the dual MK2 setup I still wanted more deep bass down low even though MK2 setup was incredible. With the HO w/turbo in my 13x24 basement theater I no longer feel like I need more. This sub is way more than I need.

It kind of makes sense since a HO w/turbo moves almost as much air as FOUR VTF-3 MK2 and that's a lot of air and you can really feel the room pressurize. Don't get me wrong the duals REALLY pressurized the room, but not like the HO w/turbo.

Here's some pics.
Dual VTF-3 MK2 (http://pages.cthome.net/lradden/ht/images/P7140476.JPG)
VTF-3 HO w/turbo (http://pages.cthome.net/lradden/ht/images/Pic00006.jpg)

Remember that if you do go for the VTF-3 MK2 you can always add the HO turbo to it and get a boost in performance. Of course the HO turbo is a bit wider than the MK2 and hangs over about an inch on each side.
MK2 with HO turbo (http://pages.cthome.net/lradden/ht/images/Pic00005.jpg)

I think what I want now is an Hsu MBM-12. The MBM-12 is designed to only handle bass from 50 - 80 Hz and allow bass below 50 Hz to go to the HO w/turbo. With this setup I would get the mid bass back without loosing the low end. Talk about the best of both worlds.

Legairre, from your description, I can almost feel the pounding that must go on in your basement every time the HO is fired up. It just amazes me to hear you guys talk about these ultra low frequencies. At one time, I thought humans could not discern frequencies outside of 20Hz - 20kHz.

BTW, your basement looks real nice. The finish is awesome. Must be a nice retreat for you. The only thing I was wondering is how you manage to lug around these heavyweights without breaking your back. :p Maybe you have an elevator? :D

Some in-room photos of my HO (subwoofer type) if anyone is interested:

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/109804667bgmVCV

And photos of the new driver as well (cross post, sorry):

http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2278

>I can almost feel the pounding that must go on in your basement every time the HO is fired up.<

Sounds like a description of someone living with an angry woman...

This is very encouraging. I can now add a used SMS-1 to the HO and still come out under $1500! Hope the weather lets up for you to squeeze in some GP testing soon Craig. Also can't wait to see how dual HO's comapre to the DD-18. Thanks again for your hard work and sharing of info Craig!

I just got my VTF3-MK2 and you guys are already making me want a HO. lol

I see the driver on the right side of the sub. Is it possible to order it with the driver on the opposite side? What about folks that want to run 2 in different corners? What about folks that must have symetry in their theater?

-Eli

I see the driver on the right side of the sub. Is it possible to order it with the driver on the opposite side? What about folks that want to run 2 in different corners? What about folks that must have symetry in their theater?

-Eli

I think Peter Marcks said they were looking into providing that option in the future. Not sure how far off, and it wasn't definite, but people have asked for it. Maybe you should email them as well to demonstrate the interest.

I see the driver on the right side of the sub. Is it possible to order it with the driver on the opposite side? What about folks that want to run 2 in different corners? What about folks that must have symetry in their theater?

-Eli
As long as you have a few inches of clearance, it shouldn't make a difference. In fact, apparently at CES that is how one was setup for the demo.

I wouldn't hold my breath for left sided '3HOs. Hsu has a lot on its plate. MBM, the HB-1 bookshelf speaker, '3HO backorders, VTF-2HO.


I have HOs in opposite corners, with no problems at all.

I have HOs in opposite corners, with no problems at all.

Is this a scene from that HBO show, Big Love?

Man that is some good stuff for a single 12". In for the later news.

Legairre, from your description, I can almost feel the pounding that must go on in your basement every time the HO is fired up. It just amazes me to hear you guys talk about these ultra low frequencies. At one time, I thought humans could not discern frequencies outside of 20Hz - 20kHz.

BTW, your basement looks real nice. The finish is awesome. Must be a nice retreat for you. The only thing I was wondering is how you manage to lug around these heavyweights without breaking your back. :p Maybe you have an elevator? :D

isomdh,
Thanks for the kind words. While we can't hear lower than 20Hz we sure can feel it. Take the scene in Matrix Revolutions when the machine city speaks. That scene has bass around 15Hz and the the HO handles it at reference level in my theater without breaking a sweat. When the machine city speaks I can't hear all the bass but I sure can feel the wave of pressure that fills the room as the sofa is shaking.

Craig isn't kidding when he talks about how impressive the HO is. This thing moves a lot of air with authority. Anyone who doesn't believe me can just ask another HO owner with the new amp and driver. The Dr. has really out done himself again.

A member over on Hsu's forum posted pics of the new driver and listed the differences he found between the old and new one. Check out the first pic and the difference in height between the two.
HO Driver pics (http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2278)

Once again thanks for the nice comments on the theater.

Once again thanks for the nice comments on the theater.As you can tell from my moniker, I am in search of my dream HD Theatre and I think I've found one in your basement. :D BTW, looks like you have some updating to do on your theatre pictures and equipment list.

One thing a thread like this can do is to possibly alter one's desire, and I'm beginning to feel that an extra $100 is well worth the price to move from PB12-NSD/VTF-3Mk2 to a new level of excellence. I probably won't go for the Turbo however, at least not initially.

Yep I have some updating to do on my site. Now if only I could stop buying subs long enough to update the site. Seriously I have no desire for a new sub anymore so I should be able to get to the site. If you're ever in CT and want to hang out in my theater you're welcome anytime. If it was me you know what I'd say, spend the extra $100 as long and you'll be finshed buying subs for a long time. The PB12-NSD/VTF-3Mk2 are great but the HO is in a different league. The olny problem is you might have to wait a few months for the HO until they clear the backlog.

If you're ever in CT and want to hang out in my theater you're welcome anytime.Thanks for the invite. I'll let you know if my travel gets me close enough to CT, like NYC. :p If it was me you know what I'd say, spend the extra $100 as long and you'll be finshed buying subs for a long time. The PB12-NSD/VTF-3Mk2 are great but the HO is in a different league. The olny problem is you might have to wait a few months for the HO until they clear the backlog.No worries there since a few months' time is exactly what I have, waiting for the construction to finish. At this point, I'm just putting together a list that keeps changing. HOpefully, HO just settled the sub question mark.

Why are HO's not on the products page for HSU ?

Can someone post a pic of a HO ?

Regards,
Jose

Page 2 of this thread has a pic and links to pics in owners homes.

Why are HO's not on the products page for HSU ?

Can someone post a pic of a HO ?

Regards,
Jose

Hsu is currently in the middle of a webpage re-vamp, and it should be listed along with a few other new products on the new site either at the end of this month, or early next.

There are a few links to pics earlier in the thread, and cschang posted one directly.

Is the driver always mounted on the right side ?

Or can you get one w/ the driver mounted on the left side ?

Thanks,

Jose

are you being funny? :)

Is the driver always mounted on the right side ?

See posts 58 and 59.

Not funny, just curious .. :)

In my case the sub would have to be about 4-5 ft on the left side of my room. There no other place for it. So the driver would face towards the front of the room away from the sofa's/chairs..

Regards,
Jose

Jose

It won't really make much difference. And, if Hsu ever has enough time to do a left sided version, it won't be for 2-3 years. See post #57 for more details.

Hsu has also said that driver orientation has no adverse effects. You can face the drive any direction you like.

Hsu has also said that driver orientation has no adverse effects. You can face the drive any direction you like.


Yea... but the 2 sides will look different. You would be able to see the driver in the left corner but not the right. That would bother me.

Just me I guess.

-Eli

Yea... but the 2 sides will look different. You would be able to see the driver in the left corner but not the right. That would bother me.

Just me I guess.

-Eli


As a dual turbo owner with one unit placed FR and one FL, I think you are close to making a mountain out of a molehill.

On movies, you are going to be watching the screen in a darkened room. You'll never see them (or be able to locate them at typical operating ranges).

With music, the HO's (as with must good subs) draw virtually no attention to themselves. The ability of your mains to produce a credible soundstage is the critical issue. The sub just adds that important touch of realism. After that, it's all up to the quality of your air guitar technique :D

...also, the turbo look got past my spouse with only a little "quid pro"...besides, see my comment "on movies"

So the new HO with a single 12inch woofer and 600 watt amp I think, can compete SPL wise with the SVS PLUS/2 with dual woofers and 900watt amp? If that's true... mighty impressive.

So the new HO with a single 12inch woofer and 600 watt amp I think, can compete SPL wise with the SVS PLUS/2 with dual woofers and 900watt amp? If that's true... mighty impressive.
It is a 500watt amp in the HO. To some, SPL aside, it also subjectively sounds better too. :)

Looks to me like Hsu has done a masterful job with this new sub and its new driver. They've raised the bar once again. :cool:

I will have my VTF-3 HO in a few days to compare with my VTF-3 MK2. So if anyone wants to know how the two compare, I can take measurements and give listening impressions.

xcjago,

Please do so.

I will have my VTF-3 HO in a few days to compare with my VTF-3 MK2. So if anyone wants to know how the two compare, I can take measurements and give listening impressions.

No please don't.



j/k :p

No please don't.



Hey - I checked out your HT in progress pics - how does the HO work out behind the sofas?

When I had my SVS sub sitting next to the Sofa it was too easy to localize where it was - so I moved it to the front - but now I feel it less.

I never tried it directly behind - not the easiest place to put mine - but how does it work for ya?

Hey - I checked out your HT in progress pics - how does the HO work out behind the sofas?

When I had my SVS sub sitting next to the Sofa it was too easy to localize where it was - so I moved it to the front - but now I feel it less.

I never tried it directly behind - not the easiest place to put mine - but how does it work for ya?

The first version was easier to locate, so I tried it up in the front corner. I didn't prefer that method because I lost much of the mid-bass 'impact' feeling that the nearfield placement gives you.

This new version blends with the mains much better, and often I don't notice it behind me. On music, when dialed in (still tweaking of course) I've found it to be able to hide istelf and blend into the mains extremely well. I think it blends about as well as my old UFW-10 did, but that's just a preliminary assessment.

It does vibrate the couch, but not to a distracting degree, or to a degree that I feel takes you out of the sound's immersion (if that makes sense). The only time I now notice it is once in awhile on the very powerful, deeper bass passages in movies, but those are too fun to care. And I haven't thought of it as intrusive.

That said, I *can* locate it as behind me if I think about it and listen. But, to be clear, I don't find it distracting and I find the placement to be very satisfactory.

Also - I'm about 60% back in the room, so I'm a little close to a room null area at the 1/2 length point (my feet sit in it actually). I think the sub does take a hit in the deeper bass because of this (and Peter Marcks says so), but I haven't graphed my freq response (yet). This, along with the goal of keeping mid-bass impact intact, is a good reason for me to try Hsu's MBM-12.

In conclusion, vis a vis, ergo, ad nauseum, it's a placement worth trying, imho. :)

In conclusion, vis a vis, ergo, ad nauseum, it's a placement worth trying, imho. :)

I see ... thank you ... If I were you - I would hope that we don't meet again. :D

I've been looking for a $1000ish sub to match with my Dynaudio Focus speakers in my new 18' x 13' x 8' HT. The usage pattern will be 80/20 HT to music.

I have just discovered the VTF3-HO today, but I think I am already convinced that I should quit looking and pull the trigger.

Couple quick questions:

1. I read in the Secrets review that the turbo adds distortion as well as extension. Can any owners comment on whether they think the turbo is an unmitigated good thing, or at least describe the nature of the trade-offs?

2. Does anyone think the Hsu is not musical enough to mate with my Dynaudio Focus 220s ($3000 list price for the pair) for 2-channel music? The Dyns are very sweet and very neutral. Most people seem to feel that Hsu is more musical than SVS, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

3. I assume it's dumb to wonder whether this is "too much sub" for my 2000 cubic ft theater space? As long as I control the bass response of the room, I have always felt that more was just plain better. That's right, isn't it?

Thanks all. I'm very excited about the prospect of bringing this bad boy home.

Jeff ... The Secret's review was with th e original driver, and a differently spec'ed amp. With the newer amp and driver, it is a much better performer.

Its "musiciality" is excellent: I have tried it with a pair of ACI Sapphire XL's with excellent results. As long as you calibrate it properly, you should realize excellent performance.

Jeff ... The Secret's review was with th e original driver, and a differently spec'ed amp. With the newer amp and driver, it is a much better performer.

I take it this is a response to my question about the turbo? So that means the turbo is definitely a worthy upgrade and not actually a trade off between better extension and lower distortion?

I take it this is a response to my question about the turbo? So that means the turbo is definitely a worthy upgrade and not actually a trade off between better extension and lower distortion?

Installed properly, the turbo adds no audible distortion ... in fact, on most material, it is not even noticeable. The WOTW lightning scene is one noteable exception, as is a good pipe organ disc. The only downside to it, in listening, is the extra $100 and my wife rolling her eyes at me about its look ... :eek: :D

1. I read in the Secrets review that the turbo adds distortion as well as extension. Can any owners comment on whether they think the turbo is an unmitigated good thing, or at least describe the nature of the trade-offs?The Secrets review was with the original driver and amp that the supplier did not build to Dr. Hsu's specs. Since that review the driver and amp has been replaced with a new driver and amp built to the spec and started shipping about 3 months ago, so the distortion in the review may have been a driver or amp issue with the turbo attached.
I received my HO w/turbo 3 months ago with the new driver and amp and the turbo is definitely a good thing to have. I even had a turbo on my VTF-3 MKII for about 3 months earlier this year and it added 3-4dB output in the really low bass and sounded great.
2. Does anyone think the Hsu is not musical enough to mate with my Dynaudio Focus 220s ($3000 list price for the pair) for 2-channel music? The Dyns are very sweet and very neutral. Most people seem to feel that Hsu is more musical than SVS, but I thought I'd ask anyway. I have the HO mated with Monitor Audio Silver S10s($2000 MSRP) and the HO is a VERY musical sub. It's tight, fast and very smooth. The HO is pretty impressive with music.

3. I assume it's dumb to wonder whether this is "too much sub" for my 2000 cubic ft theater space? As long as I control the bass response of the room, I have always felt that more was just plain better. That's right, isn't it?My room is a sealed 13x24x7'4"(2300 cubic ft)space and the HO is more sub than the dual VTF-3 MKII setup it replaced. The dual MKII setup was more than the room needed so the HO is even more sub. Yes the HO is a lot of sub but when calibrated it's prefect. Besides if you have too much bass just turn it down a notch. I'd rather have plenty of headroom and that's what the HO has.

Great HSU has an improved woofer in the latest HO,good news.I see it competes well with the DD18 in output.Great news.

Now to order two.

Impressive what Dr Hsu can do with a simple "ordinary looking" woofer,taking it as far as it can go.


Now a question for Craig,

How would you compare the HSU VTF-3 HO/Turbo against the JL Audio f113?

Output and sub bass quality.Integration also,since you have the HO and f113.


Thank you

Looking at the HSU forum, it looks like a holiday sale that will impact the price of the HO is imminent. Do you guys have any info on that?

I'm basically ready to buy, but could wait a week or two if there were a hundred dollars or more in it for me.

Great HSU has an improved woofer in the latest HO,good news.I see it competes well with the DD18 in output.Great news.

Now to order two.

Impressive what Dr Hsu can do with a simple "ordinary looking" woofer,taking it as far as it can go.


Now a question for Craig,

How would you compare the HSU VTF-3 HO/Turbo against the JL Audio f113?

Output and sub bass quality.Integration also,since you have the HO and f113.


Thank you

The next 2 weekends are going to be taken up with swim meets for our 10th grade son ... starting after that, we will have 4 straight weekends with nothing going on, other than holiday stuff. In the theater "test" room, we will have one 113, one VTF-3 HO, one PB12-Ultra and one Pb12-Plus/2.

Look for some head to head stuff on the Ultra Vs. Plus/2 ... then the VTF-3 against each f the other three.

By the end of December, hopefully we will get a SUBmersive here, followed by a BMF early 2007.

Now,I have to get my own dual VTF3-HO/Turbo subs. Must have subs.


Craig,

Lookig forward,I can tell pretty much right now the pecking order. ;) Performance and sound quality wise.

f113 followed by the VTF3 HO Turbo followed damn close by the Ultra and a short distance by the Plus series sub. :)

Earman ... you may be right, as usual, it will be some blind listening tests, just to make sure it is fair.

When are you going to list your current 26 Subs? It is cool knowing someone is crazier than I am ... :cool:

Are there any woofer pics of the VTF-3 HO yet? Wondering how it sizes up compared to the TV-12.

Not only are there pics a Hsu forum member made a list of the physical differences he has noticed between the original HO driver(not made to Dr Hsu's specs ) and the new driver(made to specs).
http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2278&highlight=driver

Are there any woofer pics of the VTF-3 HO yet? Wondering how it sizes up compared to the TV-12.
What will the pics tell you?

I just wanted to check out the design and build quality. Looks like a decent driver.

Lightning scene- DD18 may be +- 1/2 dB

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/JeffD2/lightningoverlay.jpg

Don't have time to do the pod scene right now, son's basketball season in full swing.
Sorry, I'm a bit late to the party. Craig has done some great tests, but there's one thing I'm going to have to come clean on here... I hate to ask, because it seems like such an obvious question that surely I'm missing something stupid, but I've never really understood what we're supposed to take away from these graphs. Wouldn't we also have to have a "reference" graph of the actual signal to know how much each sub strays from the input? I've never used TrueRTA, so maybe I'm completely missing the point?

I have HOs in opposite corners, with no problems at all.

It's been a month, and I can't believe no one else has asked. So I have to. Were they bad HOs?

Can someone post a pic of a HO ?

I have to say, these Hsu threads are great after a couple of beers. :)

Darin ... The graph was from appx. 5 minutes of the movie using "peak hold" for the most SPL each subwoofer could deliver in the Lightning Scene. The real purpose of the exercise was to give an idea of the in room performance using program material.

If you look, for example, you can see the Turbo really does allow the Hsu to play "deeper/louder" in the infrasonic ranges.

Thanks Craig. :) So really, it's more of an output test with a frequency component, rather than a response test. And if pushed to their limits, we see where each sub begins to compress relative to the others. Though I suppose to know that, we'd also have to have a graph from each at lower levels(?)

Not only are there pics a Hsu forum member made a list of the physical differences he has noticed between the original HO driver(not made to Dr Hsu's specs ) and the new driver(made to specs).
http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2278&highlight=driver


Hey that's my breakfast nook table!

....and I have no idea what the fuzzy brown thing is on the chair in the background. Odd.

Jonny thanks for the pics:cool:. I don't even want to guess about the brown fuzzy thing :D

Looking at the HSU forum, it looks like a holiday sale that will impact the price of the HO is imminent. Do you guys have any info on that?

I'm basically ready to buy, but could wait a week or two if there were a hundred dollars or more in it for me.

I guess no one knows the answer to this question? I probably should just pull the trigger, but I thought maybe it was worth waiting around for another few weeks.

I would call Hsu and ask, or PM Peter Marks. Maybe he can steer you in the right direction. I know that's not for sure, but if you can wait, and tell him so, I'm guessing he might tell you to do so if it will save you money....

Question, how easy is it to remove the Turbo? I.e., only put it on for HT viewing (when the wife's away!)?

How much are you losing out from an SPL level "sans" turbo?

Tx

Question, how easy is it to remove the Turbo? I.e., only put it on for HT viewing (when the wife's away!)?

How much are you losing out from an SPL level "sans" turbo?

Tx
The Turbo is very easy to install and remove. With it, the sub's ability to move air almost doubles down deep.

craigsub,

what do you think of the fact that the HSU rep stated on their forum that the upcoming VTF Mk III for 649.99 will out perform the HO? is that mind blowing or what?

craigsub,

what do you think of the fact that the HSU rep stated on their forum that the upcoming VTF Mk III for 649.99 will out perform the HO? is that mind blowing or what?


I'd read a little closer...

http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2381

Dear Ron,

VTF-3 Mk3 and VTF-3 HO are very similar in some senses. Both are very strong in the deep bass. The VTF-3 HO is a bit cleaner in the deep bass due to the lower distortion driver, but the VTF-3 Mk3 is punchier in the mid/upper bass. Can't go wrong with either of them, especially with an MBM-12 in the mix.

...snip...

VTF-3 HO + MBM-12 would be a bit better in the deep bass, but maybe not dramatically so.

I wouldn't say that VTF-3 Mk3 trades clean deep bass for higher mid/upper bass. Rather, the VTF-3 Mk3 driver doesn't use the linear BL motor technology found on the VTF-3 HO driver. Even so, the VTF-3 Mk3 is amazingly strong at 20Hz, and even very strong at 16Hz.

He did say this:
Tough question about VTF-3 Mk3/t vs VTF-3 HO non-turbo. Where driver excursion demands are highest in the deep bass, at some point above tuning where port contribution is little, then the HO should have lower harmonic distortion. However, near port tuning, the Mk3/t would have a definite edge.

...but that's apples to oranges, really.

I have had the VTF3-HO for about ten days. I'm still working on my calibration, so this question may be premature, but I'm not sure I'm a fan of the ultra low frequency signals.

When I run my Avia LFE frequency sweep, my ears start hurting around 30hz. It's just a very odd sensation, which may be caused by room peaks ramping up the low level output, but also may be caused by my ears' total lack of familiarity with frequencies that low. Right now, I'm finding my HO a bit fatiguing.

So my question is, is this problem just the result of my imperfect calibration (which admittedly has a ways to go) or do think I'm just not a fan of ultra low bass? The HO is stupendously impressive on things like the brachiosaurus crash down in Jurassic Park, but I did not enjoy the 16hz organ track that came on the HSU research demo disc one bit. The pressure felt like I was submerging my ears in a deep swimming pool.

Thoughts? Advice? Does my experience suggest that I need to rush out and get a Velodyne SMS-1 to smooth my room response?

Thanks all.

Very interesting. I do not recall reading of an issue like this before. Yes...a 16hz organ/tone can pressurize your ears like being submerged.

Have you at least calibrated the SPL levels of the sub and the speakers?

Don't worry, Jeff. You're just a wimp.
(snicker)

I'm so kidding :p I can agree that the feeling is a bit unusual when you feel pressure like that for the first time. Who knows, it might just not be for you.

Right now, I'm finding my HO a bit fatiguing.

:D

Sorry... :o

[ /juvenile ]

When I first ran my HO before calibration it was running about 15-20 dB hot and after watching some very loud DEEP bass scenes to see what the HO could do I definately had a sick feeling in my stomach. This made me happy.

:D:D:D

You could have quite a rise in dB below 30Hz, although it could also be due to the fact you aren't used to low frequencies like that.

Make sure you have the sub level-matched with the mains to balanced or whatever degree "hot" you want.

Later on get an SPL meter (should already have one for calibration) and Avia and check your frequency response - see what kind of dips and peaks you have. Be sure to check out the correction values for your particular meter (newer digital meters are much more accurate in the bass region than older analogs).

One thing that will help, short of a SMS-1, is bass traps. Not everyone can accomodate them, but they will get rid of ringing and boominess so you hear just the bass the sub produces. This is something you don't know is present until you take it away, but this may help. Enough bass traps will also help smooth out the response (although they aren't nearly as effective below 30Hz as they are above that).

Hey Craig,

We're getting impatient to see your test results.... Still nothing new? :rolleyes: Really curious to see how far the turbocharged 3-HO is far from the F113!!

Hey Craig,

We're getting impatient to see your test results.... Still nothing new? :rolleyes: Really curious to see how far the turbocharged 3-HO is far from the F113!!


Check this thread out. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768150&page=1)

Thanks Jhan 1000!

Peter, can you answer a question for me. As previously stated, my room is about 6000 cuft and I am planning to get an HO and MBM-12 combination. I plan to run the HO in the 16Hz tune, how much headroom will I lose by running it this way? I see the sub is rated for rooms of my size, but I am nervous how much thump and/or headroom I will loss by running in the max extension mode.

Thanks

Just a quick note, which will hopefully revive this very dormant thread.

I have a Velodyne SMS-1 and have been working on EQing my HO. Last night, for laughs, I removed the turbo as I was watching the readout of the SMS-1 frequency sweep. Boy, did that ever change the picture.

Taking off the turbo took the readout from flat response to 20 hz and nearly flat to 15hz, down to a SHARP drop off around 25hz and almost no response at or below 20hz. The turbo is definitely doing what it's intended to do.

Did you plug one of the ports when you removed the Turbo?

The Turbo lets you run the sub in Max Extension mode without plugging one of the ports. With no Turbo, both ports open, you have to flip the switch to Max Output. This has a different frequency response curve, of course.

You make a very good point. I did not plug the port, nor flip the switch.

Still, interesting to see what a big impact the turbo has, even if it's possible to get closer to the same results by other means. I should experiment with plugging the port and see what that does.

Make sure you plug the port and flip the switch or you can cause serious damage to the sub.

Right now I have my '3HOs set to Max Extension with one port plugged. Several times the bass was so strong the port plug fell out. I have tried them in both Max Output and Max Extension. For now I will keep them in Max Extension.

Kind Regards