Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. [Text View] - Page 10

robbroy

11-19-07, 07:58 PM

Hey guys, first post here.
I have a SVS question for everyone. A few weeks ago I purchased a PB-12 ultra Plus up here in Canada. I love the sub but I'm wondering about more bass.
I've talked with sonicboom here in Ontario and can upgrade to the Ultra Plus/2 for a reasonable bit of extra coin.
Now, should I?
My room is 12x15 feet, and I'm wondering what the difference would be in my room?
Would this bigger sub give me any set/up problems?
Just curious if the difference would be night and day or just subtle.
Thanks guys

Jeffmtbr,

Jeff, I'm assuming you mean the Plus series, and not the Ultra series (they are different) because the current generation of Ultra does not have a dual driver model.

The only reasons not to upgrade to a dual driver model are: not enough funds, not enough space, a distaste for even more headroom and less distortion, or your space is small enough that you will never tax your current sub.

I'm going to make no assumptions about the funds, assume you have the space and prefer more headroom and less distortion. How large (in cubic feet) is you space, including other areas of the home with large openings? Also, how loud do you listen to your system?

-Robb

Jeffmtbr

11-19-07, 08:14 PM

The funds aren't a problem. I've got the space and yes we're talking about the Plus series. The room is 12 feet wide 15 feet long, with 8 foot ceilings and a small opening going upstairs around the corner. I'm not sure what cubic feet that would translate into.
I do listen to the system quite loud at times. It's and Energy C-series set/up and has been calibrated with an SPL meter and Avia.
I'm think but I'm not positive that I'm taxing the sub at times. Transformers comes to mind. I guess it was in my head that in my size of a room the single drive Plus should have no problems.
Just to clear it up, the dual driver would sound identical at lower levels?? Just because I love the sound of the single drive Plus that I have.
Thanks

ransac

11-19-07, 08:18 PM

Hi Jeff,
Welcome to the forum. Assuming you bought the PB12+ from Sonic Boom as new, you must be talking about returning the + and exchanging it for a +/2. Another assumption is you got, and are staying with, the Poly Black finish. I would do some serious rethinking about going to the Ultra 13 instead of the +/2. It is only $100 more and I have the impression it is worth every penny. If you are getting one of the premium finishes, it's even better.

My final assumption is that SonicBoom has them at the web price. In the US, SVS has the +/2 in premium finishes on sale.

BTW, I have a +/2 and am working out a way to replace it with a U13.

Jeffmtbr

11-19-07, 08:26 PM

ransac

11-19-07, 08:31 PM

Randy I ask you "when does it stop"? That's what my wife said anyway. I don't think I want to go up to the Ultra 13. Well I do, but I'm getting a pretty sweet deal on this Piano black Plus/2. I haven't check prices yet but I think the 13 is a big jump from what Sonicboom has offered me.
But you have now put it into my head. My wife thanks you.To your first question, NEVER.:rolleyes:

I am basing my recommendation solely on the prices shown on the SB web site. If SB has the +/2 at the same relative price as SVS does in the US, then it is a very good deal.

I want to upgrade to the U13, not for more output, but for better sound quality. The +/2 will give you more volume than you will use for that small space. I had mine in a much larger space and still didn't have to push it too hard. Now it is in a space smaller than yours and I actually had to turn it down. I can't believe I just said that.;)

robbroy

11-19-07, 08:36 PM

Jeffmtbr,

Randy's got some good advice there, but I don't know what kind of deal Sonicboom is offering you.

At lower volumes, the two subs should be virtual sonic twins. That is not a huge space, and a single Plus should be fine, but a dual would be better. :). If you're basing your need for more woofage on Transformers, though, I should let you know I found the movie pretty weak in the bass department. It wasn't bad, but not nearly what I thought it would be for a CGI film of giant machines.

-Robb

lalakersfan34

11-19-07, 08:47 PM

Hi everyone,

I'm a live-at-home college student who has unfortunately gotten way too into this expensive hobby :p. My setup is currently in my 11'x10'x8' bedroom, and for bass I'm running a PB10-NSD and an Infinity PS212. Attached is a scale diagram of my setup. As you can see there isn't too much room for moving things around, but everything is quite balanced right now. However, I think the PS212 needs to go - it just doesn't have enough grunt. In fact, my system as a whole, is a bit lacking in bass when I really want to crank my movies.

Before you all recommend that I sell both subs and get a PB12 Plus (which I have considered), I need to say that, being almost perfectly square, my room has some pretty bad room modes that are GREATLY smoothed out by running two subs. I've tried co-locating them and found that the sound is quite a bit better with them set up as I've shown here. I'm thinking about getting a 25-31 PCi custom tuned to 22hz (down from 25hz). My understanding is that the 25-31 PCi has very good output, and I think that it would add the extra punch I require, while having them tune it down to 22hz would mean it would still have good low extension (small room with room gain I'm guessing pretty strong down to 18hz or so). I would do this to replace the PS212, and I would keep the PB10-NSD in the nearfield position it's currently in. What do you all think? I'm sure having two subs with NSD drivers would improve the quality of the bass (compared to two totally different drivers like I have right now), and the 25-31 would add lots of powerful output. What does everyone think? Obviously there are other options, but with my limited placement choices, it seems like a viable upgrade to me. Thanks.

ransac

11-19-07, 09:14 PM

lalakersfan34

11-19-07, 09:21 PM

From one Lakers fan to another, you have a fair plan. I would look at adding either another PB10 or a 20-39. This way you get two subs that roll off around the same frequency. If you have one rolling off higher than the other, then the low end will get weak rather quickly.

Now, being a Laker fan for longer than you have probably been alive (fan since Jerry West, Gail Goodrich, Happy Hairston, Wilt Chamberlain [damn I miss that team]), I don't have to worry about student loans. For you, I would seriously look at a second PB10.

Thanks for the suggestion. Yeah, I think it's a pretty decent idea. I know the 25-31 rolls off a bit faster but I don't want it to be quite as tall as the 20-39, and having them custom tune it to 22hz will put it within a couple hz of the PB10's roll off frequency. Plus it's a little cheaper. Another PB10 is just a little too big..i have to move the TV farther out and it gets too far into the middle of the room (yes, even a few inches makes a difference when your room is as small as mine). Thanks for the suggestion though. I probably should bite the bullet and get the 20-39, but I'm trying to save as much as I can while still getting great performance. No student loans, though - going to a Cal State so I can afford school without taking out loans :).

About them Lakers, the first game I went to had Magic Johnson in it. I just vaguely remember him. I was no older than probably 7 or 8. Pretty amazing guy! Thanks again for the ideas. I'll probably talk to Ron or Tom and see what they think too. If anyone else has suggestions, I'd love to hear them too.

Prozakk

11-26-07, 03:06 PM

mojomike

11-26-07, 03:31 PM

Did you try picking up the good ol' fashioned telephone?

Prozakk

11-26-07, 03:35 PM

Did you try picking up the good ol' fashioned telephone?

And use cellphone minutes up? No thanks.

I have no landline.

amheck

11-26-07, 03:38 PM

you get rid of your landline and then complain about not having enough cell minutes. too funny.

Prozakk

11-26-07, 03:39 PM

you get rid of your landline and then complain about not having enough cell minutes. too funny.

My complaint is 4 unreplied e-mails.

Kpt_Krunch

11-26-07, 03:40 PM

What happened to SVS' customer service? I am an owner of a textured Black Ultra/2. I have sent them 4 e-mails, just to get no replies. SVS used to be absolutely the greatest in customer service, now no replies. I have sent them alot of potential customers and said many a positive words over the years. Just for this?

I am now contemplating selling mine and looking elsewhere for a new subwoofer.

hmmm, when did you send them?

Also, you must be pretty underwhelmed by the sub if you want to get rid of it because of unanswered emails. Usually, I get rid of things because I don't like them, not because someone won't correspond with me.

But then again, that's just me :)

Prozakk

11-26-07, 03:52 PM

hmmm, when did you send them?

Also, you must be pretty underwhelmed by the sub if you want to get rid of it because of unanswered emails. Usually, I get rid of things because I don't like them, not because someone won't correspond with me.

But then again, that's just me :)

I sent the 1st one almost a month ago.

I was already contemplating a dual 18" Soundsplinter DIY sub. This is kind of sealing the deal....

Ron Temple

11-26-07, 03:56 PM

Check your provider, I got email replies over the holidays within minutes.

ransac

11-26-07, 04:10 PM

What happened to SVS' customer service? I am an owner of a textured Black Ultra/2. I have sent them 4 e-mails, just to get no replies. SVS used to be absolutely the greatest in customer service, now no replies. I have sent them alot of potential customers and said many a positive words over the years. Just for this?

I am now contemplating selling mine and looking elsewhere for a new subwoofer.One missed, OK, two, well maybe, four, no way. Your emails are probably being blocked somewhere in the stream. Did you request a return receipt or a delivery confirmation? Did you try to PM Ed Mullen here and tell him you are not getting responses to your emails? Did you try taking some of your self?:eek:

mojomike

11-26-07, 04:11 PM

Check your provider, I got email replies over the holidays within minutes.

Ditto that. I've even had e-mail communication on a Sunday with bossman Tom V.

And use cellphone minutes up? No thanks.

I have no landline.

You don't seem to put much importance on whatever you wanted to communicate with SVS if you are unwilling to use a few cellphone minutes. What could it cost you, like $0.50? That's the worst reason I've ever heard for switching subs.

If you want to build a a dual 18" Soundsplinter DIY sub, just go for it. Why look for silly excuses like an unreturned e-mail to do it?

Prozakk

11-26-07, 04:25 PM

I have successfully had 37 replied to e-mails in this same amount of time. I sent the e-mails to Tom, Ron, and their main customer support address.

Here's what I sent:
I am trying to buy a used Black textured Ultra/2 (so I'll have 2 then). The cost of 2
Ultra13 is out of my budget, nor would I want to take such a monitary loss as to sell
mine.

What year model of the TV-12 had the quad magnet vs. dual stacked? Is there a
difference in output or sound quality?

Mine is ~2 years old, and I'd like to get another one with the same magnet arrangement
as the one I have now.

mojomike

11-26-07, 04:30 PM

Do you have a spam filter and have you checked it?

robbroy

11-26-07, 04:36 PM

Prozakk,

It is also a possibility that the SVS spam filter is blocking your emails. If "prozakk" is part of the username, I'd be pretty certain a spam filter would pick that up (just as if the username was "valeeum"). I know SVS gets my emails, so I will email them to make certain someone sees your question sooner rather than later.

-Robb

Prozakk

11-26-07, 04:37 PM

Do you have a spam filter and have you checked it?

Yes and yes. I have received e-mails from all 3 of the SVS related addresses in the past.

Prozakk

11-26-07, 04:38 PM

robbroy

11-26-07, 04:48 PM

It's not a part of the e-mail address I'm sending from. See my above post.:(

That still doesn't mean their spam filter hasn't started to block your messages. I sent them an email, so hopefully one of them will be along soon to answer your question.

-Robb

Kpt_Krunch

11-26-07, 05:14 PM

I sent the 1st one almost a month ago.

I was already contemplating a dual 18" Soundsplinter DIY sub. This is kind of sealing the deal....

Yeah prozzak - I have to agree with everyone here. These I.D. companies - all of them (hsu,epik, Av123, Ascend, Axiom, etc. etc.) have the internet as a store front. Did you do a 'request receipt' when you sent your emails? I could understand the first one - but after that, I'd send a 'request receipt' to see if they get it. Of course, they have to accept it at their end, but I can't see why they wouldn't.

There's no way any of these guys would not just respond unless you sent them some kind of silly request (and your's isn't , it's a fair question). I've only had a couple of mine go unanswered over the years - but never with SVS (or sonic boom here in Canada) - and I'm not even an owner of their subs. And trust me - I've sent them (IMO) some silly emails -but they responded immediately (within a couple of hours).

lalakersfan34

11-26-07, 05:16 PM

What happened to SVS' customer service? I am an owner of a textured Black Ultra/2. I have sent them 4 e-mails, just to get no replies. SVS used to be absolutely the greatest in customer service, now no replies. I have sent them alot of potential customers and said many a positive words over the years. Just for this?

I am now contemplating selling mine and looking elsewhere for a new subwoofer.

Something must be wrong in your particular case, because I've been shooting e-mails back and forth with Ed Mullin the last couple weeks and I've never waited even 24 hours for a response. Hope things work out for you, though.

Just a thought...you could always use a different e-mail address and see if they'll reply to that one...

Static Wick

11-26-07, 05:32 PM

My complaint is 4 unreplied e-mails.

hmm? This is very unusual, I have exchanged several emails with SVS late in the wee hours, on weekends and even on holidays and they always respond promply.

Ed Mullen

11-26-07, 06:04 PM

What happened to SVS' customer service? I am an owner of a textured Black Ultra/2. I have sent them 4 e-mails, just to get no replies. SVS used to be absolutely the greatest in customer service, now no replies. I have sent them alot of potential customers and said many a positive words over the years. Just for this?

I am now contemplating selling mine and looking elsewhere for a new subwoofer.

Hi Prozakk:

We reply to all emails within 24 hours. We check out spam filters every day. I'm not sure why your notes are not getting through, but please be sure to only send them to sales@svsound.com, or techsupport@svsound.com. Sending them to personal email boxes is a crapshoot because someone might be on vacation or at a trade show, etc. Thanks!

Prozakk

11-27-07, 12:57 AM

I sent to the techsupport address too.

Ed Mullen

11-27-07, 08:07 AM

I sent to the techsupport address too.

Hi Alex:

In this case four staffers searched multiple personal and SVS Sales and Tech Support inboxes with nary a hit. All junk mail folders and spam filters were double checked - nothing found.

Last night I sent a note from my personal email box (also CCing Ron/Erik) to your last known email addy. It was rejected by Postini, if that helps any.

Despite all attempts to maintain open electronic lines of communication, sometimes a customer simply can't get through, and rarely there are no rejection notices on either end - the note simply vanishes into cyberspace. We had this scenario occur one time in the last year, and the customer switched to an alternate email addy and all was well.

If you have an alternate email addy - send us a note to Sales and Tech Support, with your name in the title block. I'll look for it today - and I'll check the junk mail folders and the spam filters too.

We request that anyone who ever goes more than 24 hours without a response to a note to simply call our toll free number posted on our website. We have Skype chat available too, as back-up.

Sorry contacting us has been a headache, Alex - but we would never ignore four contact attempts from any customer, much less a "super user" like you. :)

Prozakk

11-27-07, 01:54 PM

Hi Alex:

In this case four staffers searched multiple personal and SVS Sales and Tech Support inboxes with nary a hit. All junk mail folders and spam filters were double checked - nothing found.

Last night I sent a note from my personal email box (also CCing Ron/Erik) to your last known email addy. It was rejected by Postini, if that helps any.

Despite all attempts to maintain open electronic lines of communication, sometimes a customer simply can't get through, and rarely there are no rejection notices on either end - the note simply vanishes into cyberspace. We had this scenario occur one time in the last year, and the customer switched to an alternate email addy and all was well.

If you have an alternate email addy - send us a note to Sales and Tech Support, with your name in the title block. I'll look for it today - and I'll check the junk mail folders and the spam filters too.

We request that anyone who ever goes more than 24 hours without a response to a note to simply call our toll free number posted on our website. We have Skype chat available too, as back-up.

Sorry contacting us has been a headache, Alex - but we would never ignore four contact attempts from any customer, much less a "super user" like you. :)

My name is Jerry (Tom knows, we've sent many e-mails back and forth over the years).

I have successfully contacted SVS many times with my e-mail account.

I just though this was mighty odd. I've never experienced this with SVS before.

I'll try again using another address.

Prozakk

11-27-07, 02:02 PM

I found the problem. In my contacts list I still have the contact address as techsupport@svsubwoofers.com

I'm still boggled that Neither Tom nor Ron's addresses got a response though.

And I am a super user. I was the driving force behind the idea of the SVS hat. I also pushed for the basket on the Plus driver to be changed to Aluminum.

So can I get an updated hat (SVSOUND instead of my 4 SVSUBWOOFER) for my woes...lol!

Prozakk

11-27-07, 06:27 PM

Well I got through. Got an answer from my second email account. But when I replied with another question...nothing again.

amheck

11-27-07, 06:34 PM

Well I got through. Got an answer from my second email account. But when I replied with another question...nothing again.

Sounds like you need a new PC and a landline. :D

AnthemAVM

11-27-07, 07:55 PM

Captain Crunch

11-27-07, 09:17 PM

Ed,

I want to add two more subs to my home theater. I am currently using 2 PB13 Ultra, and was wondering what would be better two more boxes, or tubes. The Tubes would be better for placement, but don't want a hassle trying to get them dialed in.

Michael

2 morehttp://img486.imageshack.us/img486/6389/jawdrop7rg.gif.............Greedy B$%$#@$ lol..........save some for the rest of us LOL

elmalloc

11-27-07, 09:28 PM

no **** man i gotta wait till after xmas to get mine? give me yours fo ra discount!

pdadi

11-28-07, 12:03 AM

i have an oppurtunity to pick up a couple of years used pb12-isd for $275.
I currently have Bic H-100 which is good. Will PB12-isd ibe a big step up?

Should I worry about upgrading to new NSD driver? I watch movies at -10 to -15 below reference which I think is moderate.

This will be placed nearfield next to my couch in a corner sorrounded by another
couch. I should get atleast upto 20hz with this placement.

Thanks for any info.

Prozakk

11-28-07, 12:45 AM

Sounds like you need a new PC and a landline. :D

I tried on 2 different PC's.

Landline...just to make 1 call...no way dude!

Ron Temple

11-28-07, 02:59 AM

Ed Mullen

11-28-07, 09:50 AM

Well I got through. Got an answer from my second email account. But when I replied with another question...nothing again.

Hi Jerry:

I replied to your first note immediately. I replied to your 2nd note 13 hours later.

Sometimes replies will be almost immediate, and other times it will be longer depending on the time of day. There are periods when the boxes are not manned, but we always try to reply in less than 24 hours, often much sooner.

Ed Mullen

11-28-07, 09:57 AM

Ed,

I want to add two more subs to my home theater. I am currently using 2 PB13 Ultra, and was wondering what would be better two more boxes, or tubes. The Tubes would be better for placement, but don't want a hassle trying to get them dialed in.

Michael

Hi Michael:

If you want the exact FR, phase response, and overall performance, then get two more PB13U.

It won't be hard to dial in dual PCU with your existing dual PB13U, but since the box is a somewhat better peformer at the very deepest frequencies (due to its deeper tune and larger cabinet volume), you won't quite get the expected 6 dB of additional output in the 18-23 Hz bandwidth like you would if you added two more PB13U.

pdadi

11-28-07, 10:03 AM

There is a big difference between the SVS and the Bic and do move up to the NSD driver. It's another decent upgrade...gets you to Plus 12.2 levels of performance.

Thanks Ron. I will spend some time with ISD version. If I think I am missing something I will go for NSD version.

Cajun_Mike

11-28-07, 12:54 PM

I might be looking to sell my SVS PC-ultra (525 watt version) that's in mint condition. PM me if interested.

Tweakophyte

11-29-07, 08:33 AM

I might be looking to sell my SVS PC-ultra (525 watt version) that's in mint condition. PM me if interested.

You should post an ad like I did for mine (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=81).
;)

Sherardp

11-29-07, 09:11 AM

I need an opinion, Im thinking of adding a 3rd sub to my new dedicated room. The room is sealed, 14x22 with 8.5 ft ceiling. I currently run dual plus/2s controlled by a Velo SMS-1. I couldnt be happier with the bass, my current subs do a very fine job. But Im addicted so Im thinking of a 3rd sub, would I get more output by adding a PB13U or do I just shoot for another Plus/2. Since Im using the SMS-1 I imagine this wouldnt be that hard to get dialed in correct ? Would that be over kill in a room this size? Any advice would help.

Ron Temple

11-29-07, 02:29 PM

jayrader

11-29-07, 05:01 PM

How about this gang. I've already got a PB12-Plus up front on one side. Would it screw anything up if I put a PB12-Plus/2 up front on the other side? Or if I'm going to get another one, should I just get another PB12-Plus, so I have identical subs up there?

Sherardp

11-29-07, 05:03 PM

thrand1

11-30-07, 02:36 PM

Question for anyone from SVS or customers with a similar experience:

I live in Ohio, and I've always been curious about where the factory is, what it's like on the inside, and so on. When I purchase my sub, is it possible for me and one friend (volunteering his muscles for the carrying, of course) to come and pick it up at the factory instead of shipping it? Figure I could save a few bucks on shipping if I could get it that way...

In the same vein as the previous question, does anyone know the dimensions (WxLxD) of a PB12-NSD in the packed box? Need to take some measurements in ye olde jalopy to see if I could even fit it!

ransac

11-30-07, 02:42 PM

Ron Temple

11-30-07, 02:55 PM

The factory is in Girard, OH. I'm not at my maps, but it is on the East side of OH. You can make arrangements to pick up at the plant. Just let them know when you place the order. Look at the PB12 measurements. If you have room for that, you can always unbox it when you pick it up. Just keep the packing if you ever need to ship it.Girard is a suburb of Youngstown and as I'm constantly reminded by the SVS folks...Ytown is the murder capitol of the US. Wear your kevlar vest :p.

Babel_Fish

11-30-07, 03:02 PM

Girard is a suburb of Youngstown and as I'm constantly reminded by the SVS folks...Ytown is the murder capitol of the US. Wear your kevlar vest :p.

that explains the dead body that was in my box next to my sub... I thought it was just clever padding... :)

thrand1

11-30-07, 03:45 PM

Great! Thanks for the help. I live in a suburb just northeast of Columbus, so it'll be about a 2.25hr drive, but oh man it will be worth it!

My poor car though...that 74 pound beast will probably make it look like we ARE carrying a dead body because the car will be riding so low. I expect to get about 6mpg less :D I know it isn't an Ultra-- that would probably cause my car to bottom out-- but I still am counting down the days (and counting up the pennies) until that PB12-NSD will be coming home with me!

The factory is in Girard, OH. I'm not at my maps, but it is on the East side of OH. You can make arrangements to pick up at the plant. Just let them know when you place the order. Look at the PB12 measurements. If you have room for that, you can always unbox it when you pick it up. Just keep the packing if you ever need to ship it.

robbroy

11-30-07, 04:12 PM

cleaver padding

I don't know if that was intentional or not, but it's hysterical!

-Robb

Babel_Fish

11-30-07, 04:19 PM

I don't know if that was intentional or not, but it's hysterical!

-Robb

ahahahahhahahaa that was not intensional.. I wasn't paying attention.. lol I'll change it :)

pdadi

11-30-07, 05:00 PM

Ron Temple

11-30-07, 05:39 PM

I have just upgraded from Bic H100 to an used two year old PB12-ISD which I got it from craigslist.

My room is 2500 cu ft with openings to kitchen,stairwell and another opening to hallway that leads to bedrooms.

sub is corner loaded placed nearfiled 2 1/2 feet from listening position. It fits very well there as an end table.

Receiver sub level at -5 and volume knob on sub between 1/4th and 1/3rd.

Slipped in WOTW and started Tripod emerging scene at -15 below reference.

Oh my god........ . My couch and floor started shaking . This is so different from Bics experience. My wife freaked out and I dropped down to -20 and still it didn't letup.

This is a not a fair comparision with Bic but I have to say the difference is huge.

It is hitting very hard at those moderate listening levels. Bic did served me very well but this one is a big stepup. I got this for 1/3rd of full MSRP price.

No wonder SVS subs are legendry and this is going to serve me for a long time.told you...;) The Bics are nice entry level subs that do a fine job...for those who can't afford a more capable sub or can't find a nice used deal like you. Wotw has a ton of bass below 25hz and now I predict you're going to go back through your DVD collection to find out what else you've been missing. Enjoy it for awhile then get the NSD driver...you'll notice better upper bass linearity, dynamics and articulation. It's really a nice (fairly cheap) upgrade.

OvalNut

11-30-07, 05:44 PM

No wonder SVS subs are legendry and this is going to serve me for a long time.... He'll be back inside of a year looking at going duals or trying to finangle an Ultra past his wife. :p

Congratulations!

Tim

pdadi

11-30-07, 07:04 PM

... He'll be back inside of a year looking at going duals or trying to finangle an Ultra past his wife. :p

Congratulations!

Tim

Tim, I upgraded becoz of damn cheap price I got on this one. I paid $250 for this
PB12-ISD. It fits nicely in the corner as an end table. Don't have any space for bigger subs and for my 2500 cu.ft room this is plenty.

pdadi

11-30-07, 07:14 PM

told you...;) The Bics are nice entry level subs that do a fine job...for those who can't afford a more capable sub or can't find a nice used deal like you. Wotw has a ton of bass below 25hz and now I predict you're going to go back through your DVD collection to find out what else you've been missing. Enjoy it for awhile then get the NSD driver...you'll notice better upper bass linearity, dynamics and articulation. It's really a nice (fairly cheap) upgrade.

Ron, You bet. I am going to go thru all the DVD's. One of my coworker came to my
house to help me move this beast to my second floor condo. When I played WOTW he was just sitting beside the sub. When the LFE effects started he jumped out of the couch and started shaking his head. We came back to work and he started telling my coworkers about the impact he felt and he is still in awe.

I think I will be happy with this one. No more upgrades:-)

Ron Temple

11-30-07, 07:28 PM

Ron, You bet. I am going to go thru all the DVD's. One of my coworker came to my
house to help me move this beast to my second floor condo. When I played WOTW he was just sitting beside the sub. When the LFE effects started he jumped out of the couch and started shaking his head. We came back to work and he started telling my coworkers about the impact he felt and he is still in awe.

I think I will be happy with this one. No more upgrades:-)pdadi...I've been watching you...you're jumping in an contributing on the Polk thread...good stuff...face it your hooked. Tim's right, you're on the slippery slope...that Ultra is calling...might take a month...might take a year, but it's coming :D.

pdadi

11-30-07, 08:07 PM

pdadi...I've been watching you...you're jumping in an contributing on the Polk thread...good stuff...face it your hooked. Tim's right, you're on the slippery slope...that Ultra is calling...might take a month...might take a year, but it's coming :D.

Ron, I am a bargain hunter. I got Polk Rti's pretty cheap from fry's. I enjoyed
Bic H100 for one year before I upgraded to PB12-ISD bcoz of the excellent price.

Another upgrade my wife will kick me out of the house:-). She didn't make much fuss bcoz of my bargain huntings. My friends paid 2k for Bose crap and I have a kick ass audio setup comapred to Bose and she knows that very well.

You are right if you hang in this forums for long upgradititis will rear its ugly head but I watch my wallet very closely.

Regarding contributions in polk thread I want to give it back bcoz this forum saved me time and money and helped me to get good system with in my budget. You are an awesome contributor and thanks for all your help and I learned a lot form you. I have become an audio expert with in my friends circle. You won't believe my entire HT setup including video and audio is $1700.

lalakersfan34

11-30-07, 08:08 PM

I think I will be happy with this one. No more upgrades:-)

Sorry, no way you won't upgrade. I have a PB10-NSD in my 900 cubic foot room and next week I'm ordering a 20-39 PC+ to complement it. I only hope THAT is enough to stave off any upgradeitus. But for the time being, enjoy the heck out of your new SVS. You finally have an idea of what you've been missing :).

pdadi

11-30-07, 08:51 PM

rare-air

11-30-07, 09:05 PM

Sorry, no way you won't upgrade. I have a PB10-NSD in my 900 cubic foot room and next week I'm ordering a 20-39 PC+ to complement it. I only hope THAT is enough to stave off any upgradeitus. But for the time being, enjoy the heck out of your new SVS. You finally have an idea of what you've been missing :).

Don't know much about the PB10 but I would think it would be lost with the PC+. My new 20-39+ will implode my room if I turn the gain up past the 1/3 in my 2300sqft room. This replaced an old 8" sub and it made it seem like it I never had a sub before.
And it might be hard to dial in both subs so they play together nicely.

Sherardp

11-30-07, 10:41 PM

This stuff gets addicting rather fast, Im now considering a 3rd SVS sub, PB13U or a 3rd PB12 plus 2. Not sure which route Im going. But Im thinking........................

lalakersfan34

12-01-07, 12:14 AM

Don't know much about the PB10 but I would think it would be lost with the PC+. My new 20-39+ will implode my room if I turn the gain up past the 1/3 in my 2300sqft room. This replaced an old 8" sub and it made it seem like it I never had a sub before.
And it might be hard to dial in both subs so they play together nicely.

That's a good possibility. However, my room is almost a perfect square (obviously a bad shape for good, even bass response). My HT is set up at an angle with my TV is in a corner. The 20-39+ is going to go behind the TV (around 7 feet from LP), while the PB10-NSD will be nearfield (about 1-2 feet from the LP). I've used a lesser sub and the PB10 in this configuration, and it's helped to even out response. That's all I'm hoping for the PB10 to do here, really - even out response, and maybe give a little bit of tactile punch since I'm practically sitting on top of it :D. I'll have the PB10 calibrated 3 or 4 dB lower than the 20-39+ so it doesn't reach its limits too early. Of course, I'll try running the PC+ without the PB10 as well, and if the results are virtually identical with or without the PB10, I'll just sell the PB10. We'll see. I can't wait, though. A 20-39+ and a PB10 in a 900 cubic foot room should give some serious bass :D

getech

12-01-07, 01:24 AM

:eek: I have never heard so much clean, gut moving bass in my life...literally felt my pant leg move. I've used other subs such as the widely touted JL Fathom :rolleyes: not even close. Kudo's to the SVS guys, a shockingly good sub.

Wonder when the metal grills will be available?

Plex

12-01-07, 01:47 AM

I have a 2 year old 20-39+, is it worth upgrading to the 12.3 woofer? Will I hear the $170 difference? Is there a 12.4 woofer upgrade coming next year, how often do they upgrade woofers for retro fits?:confused:

I have the cash, so that's not my hangup. My wife thinks I have too much sub for the room, she says this since i have off-centered most photos on 2 floors of the house a few times:D:D:D:D

My room is ~2000cubic ft, I have tried to lower the gain and i used the SPL meter to adjust the level but this beast wants to be heard , I'm running ~+5db over the other speakers. I have read that if i plug one of the ports i will reduce my output and still have that punch i so want, is this right? Or will this lower the WAF even more?:(:(

rare-air

12-01-07, 09:42 AM

Personally I like the extra little bit of low extension so I plugged one port on my PC+. I notice more the low extension in some scenes more than I notice the lack of a Db or two. There is enough headroom to turn up the gain a little to get that db or two back anyway.

I have used double back tape on some of my pictures to keep them from rattling or moving.

lalakersfan34

12-01-07, 12:35 PM

I'll try it at 20hz and 16hz tunes, but my guess is I'll use it in the 16hz tune too. In such a small room it'll have more than enough headroom, and I'll like to have the extra extension.

gunbunnysoulja

12-01-07, 10:17 PM

I want an SVS sub, but I'm not sure what model to get. I have a small room (13x11) and I have a Paradigm PDR-8 sub that doesn't satisfy my needs, for music and for movies. I would like to get a sub where I don't need to upgrade again once I get a larger space.

Is it bad to get a sub thats actually to much for a small room? I know large speakers can be bad for small rooms, does this apply to subs? I am open to all of the SVS models as their prices are incredible even for their top models.

My speakers are Paradigm monitor 11's, CC-390, ADP 190's, and Atom's for surround backs.

Sherardp

12-01-07, 10:28 PM

^+ I was in a small room once, I was running the PB12+2, and had no issue at all. You can always turn down the volume. Thats the easy fix.

gunbunnysoulja

12-01-07, 10:39 PM

I was actually leaning towards the PB12-plus/2 as the price is amazing. Maybe I'll just go with the Ultra 13 then as it has a smaller footprint. I just want an excuse to get an amazing sub!

curlyjive

12-03-07, 05:59 PM

ransac

12-03-07, 06:07 PM

I just received my PB10-NSD today and have 2 questions:

1) Is there any downside or risk to the sub if I leave it set to "on" all the time, instead of "auto"? Even after bumping the LFE gain to +2 on my receiver, it still does not always kick on...especially for TV watching. The manual says this is ok....but is there any downside to leaving it on all the time in the long run?

2) Is there any downside if I need to turn the gain on the sub up past the 1/4 to 1/3 starting recommendation? I may need to bump the gain a bit and am trying to decide whether to do it at the AVR or the sub amp. There is a lot of room left on the dial...any harm in using some?
1) No. If your signal doesn't turn on the power reliably, leave it in the always on position. When it hasn't been run for a while, feel the amp. It will be cool to the touch, meaning it is not burning power and generating heat.

2) Use what you need. That is why it is there. Find a good balance between your AVR settings and the gain on the amp. Be careful with the gain turned up if you make adjustments on the AVR settings. You may get a rather rude awakening the first time a high input signal is sent with the gain turned up.

OvalNut

12-03-07, 06:09 PM

1) No, in fact Ed Mullen at SVS has said before that he leaves his subs on all the time. I leave mine on 24/7 with no concerns.

2) No, up to 1/2 way or so should not be problem.

Enjoy!

Tim

curlyjive

12-03-07, 06:15 PM

1) No, in fact Ed Mullen at SVS has said before that he leaves his subs on all the time. I leave mine on 24/7 with no concerns.

2) No, up to 1/2 way or so should not be problem.

Enjoy!

Tim

Thanks much to both of you. I know I have the baby of the SVS lineup, but it is a huge step up from my polk PSW350! I haven't had time to really test it out yet...just ran through level and phase calibration and listened to a few scenes that I know gave my old sub issues. I think I am going to be really happy with this unit. It is well build, just big enough to look intimidating but not make the wife mad, and goes as low as I need. It even came with a SPL meter (though I already had one). I wouldn't call myself a bass nut in comparison to most of you;)(I don't need the house to shake, but I do like accurate bass with enough impact to make you feel it when you are supposed to).

I'll report back when I have some time to listen more.

imromo24

12-03-07, 08:29 PM

I'll have the PB10 calibrated 3 or 4 dB lower than the 20-39+ so it doesn't reach its limits too early. :D

Im running the pb10 and the 20-39+ and they compliment very well. I actually use the 39+ with the XO on and set to around 60hz just so it picks up the lower bass and compliments the pb10 nicely. The pb10 is bullet proof and keeps up great with the 39+ (or rather compliments without problems)

oh, I also have a port block in the 39+ so the pb 10 helps add back the dB's lost due to the port block.

lalakersfan34

12-03-07, 09:40 PM

Im running the pb10 and the 20-39+ and they compliment very well. I actually use the 39+ with the XO on and set to around 60hz just so it picks up the lower bass and compliments the pb10 nicely. The pb10 is bullet proof and keeps up great with the 39+ (or rather compliments without problems)

oh, I also have a port block in the 39+ so the pb 10 helps add back the dB's lost due to the port block.

Thanks for the input imromo24. Good to hear they can complement each other well. I'm more than likely going to run the 20-39 PC+ in 16hz mode as well. I figure in my small 900 cubic foot room the combo should give me a ton of impact and extension. Out of curiosity, how does music sound with the combination? Does the 20-39 PC+ make music sound better than with just the PB10? Does having the PB10 with the 20-39 PC+ make it any less tight than just the 20-39 PC+ by itself? Also, how big is your room, and how are your subs situated? Sorry for all of the questions - I'm just really curious because it's a somewhat odd combo when you think about it, but it's cool to hear from someone else that has it. Incidentally, I'll probably be ordering my 20-39 PC+ on Wednesday.

ransac

12-03-07, 09:49 PM

I was actually leaning towards the PB12-plus/2 as the price is amazing. Maybe I'll just go with the Ultra 13 then as it has a smaller footprint. I just want an excuse to get an amazing sub!
Check the dimensions, the U13 is only an inch shallower and 1.5 inches wider than the +/2. Unless you are talking about the Ultra cylinder.

Did notice the +/2 is either on clearance or sold out as is the NSD/2. Looks like SVS is done making dual driver subs.

ransac

12-03-07, 09:55 PM

:(As I said in the previous post and just have discovered this, SVS is no longer making dual driver subs.:( All +/2 and NSD/2 are at clearance prices. They mention this in the news link.

Z06_Pilot

12-03-07, 11:47 PM

Hi folks,

I am hoping you experienced sub folks can help me out.

I have a HT setup using an Integra 9.8 pre/pro, controlling a 5.1 setup with Magnepan planer speakers, and a Paradigm PS-1200 sub.

I am probably 70% HT and 30% audio which includes SACD and DVD-A 5.1, as well as 2 channel audio(but only on occassion). Most of my audio listening is multi-chanel.

So, I would like to get a powerful, fast sub woofer, and living in Ohio, I want to purchase locally and from everything I can find, SVS is the place.

I am considering the PB13-ultra and have questions.

I read on one of the posts that SVS subs are not really designed for AVR use, but primarily for folks with 2 channel pre-amps who want to put a sub in their chain to the power amp.

So, will I get sonic advantages with the PB13 running through my AVR compared with my Paradigm? It's a $500 sub that I bought about 10 years ago, and is not the best quality by today's standards.

How can I use the SVS in HT and audio modes and get the best of both worlds with a PB-13?

thanks very much for your advice.
Jeff

ransac

12-04-07, 12:11 AM

Don't know where you read that SVS subs are only for 2 channel applications, but that is not true. They are true HT subs and the new Ultra is terrific with music, or so I've heard. I will get to demo one this coming weekend. As with all powered subs of today, it connects to the sub/lfe output from your AVR. The post you read may have been referring to the passive SVS subs. They do need an outboard amp, but that doesn't exclude them from being used in a 5.1 set up.

mojomike

12-04-07, 12:22 AM

Jeff, I'm not sure what you read about SVS subs and AVR use, but disregard it. It makes no sense whatsover. Virtually any powered sub is designed for AVR use, period. What the PB13 amp does offer is the ability to connect it other possible ways as well.

There is certainly nothing wrong with your current Paradigm sub. The PB13, however, will outperform it in every possible way. More output, deeper bass, more accurate frequency response, superior sound quality. Music should sound more realistic and movies that have powerful bass will have more impact and some will shake your room.

Typically you would simply connect the "sub out" on your AVR to one of the low level inputs on the PB13. How you would tune and calibrate your sub would then depend on the acoustic characteristics of your room. As far as getting into details, that should wait until you actually have the sub.

If you do purchase the sub from SVS, pick up the Radio Shack SPL meter as well unless you already have one.

Z06_Pilot

12-04-07, 09:54 AM

ransac, you may be right. the post was in this thread, and although i tried to figure out the reference, you are probably right, it was referring to their passive subs. i did not think about that...

From a connectivity standpoint, the PB13 is one of the few I have found under $2k that provide XLR balanced inputs. For any run over 15' I really prefer them.

Regarding the RS SPL meter, been using their digital unit for about 10 years now. can't have a HT without one!

thanks for the clarification folks. Now I just need to decide on my finish and how long the wait will be.

wow, that Rosenut is incredible, but my speaker trim is natural oak.....great quandry to be in though

Ed Mullen

12-04-07, 09:59 AM

Z06_Pilot

12-04-07, 10:45 AM

so, looking to upgrade from my 10 year old Paradigm PS-1200,

I am 70%HT and 30%audio listening, and the majority of my audio listening is multi-channel(SACD or DVD-A)

I know all too well that sub selection is very subjective based on your ears, equipment, room dynamics, etc.

However, I was hoping to get some opinions here. The +/2 is a full $500 less than the new PB-13 Ultra. That's a lot of scratch considering it's 1/3 off of the price of the PB13.

I am giving up XLR inputs with the +/2 I know-that's not deal breaker for me, but from a sound standpoint: output, clarity, driver speed, accuracy. Would it be worth the extra $500 for the PB-13? And since the +/2's are on clearance right now, I might be able to drive over and just pick one up as oppossed to a wait list for a 13. Are there truly usable features of the PB13 that I would be giving up with the +/2?

As I will be purchasing one of these site unheard, opinions from you expereinced users would be much appreciated.

Ed from SVS, your opinion would be much welcomed also

Jeff
Columbus, OH

mojomike

12-04-07, 10:57 AM

I don't think there is any question that the PB13 is a better sounding sub. It's hard to determine if that difference is worth $500 to you. Obviously, the Plus/2 at that price is an excellent bargain. Those who have made the switch from the Plus/2 to the 13Ultra seem pleased that they did.

ransac

12-04-07, 11:43 AM

so, looking to upgrade from my 10 year old Paradigm PS-1200,

I am 70%HT and 30%audio listening, and the majority of my audio listening is multi-channel(SACD or DVD-A)

I know all too well that sub selection is very subjective based on your ears, equipment, room dynamics, etc.

However, I was hoping to get some opinions here. The +/2 is a full $500 less than the new PB-13 Ultra. That's a lot of scratch considering it's 1/3 off of the price of the PB13.

I am giving up XLR inputs with the +/2 I know-that's not deal breaker for me, but from a sound standpoint: output, clarity, driver speed, accuracy. Would it be worth the extra $500 for the PB-13? And since the +/2's are on clearance right now, I might be able to drive over and just pick one up as opposed to a wait list for a 13. Are there truly usable features of the PB13 that I would be giving up with the +/2?

As I will be purchasing one of these site unheard, opinions from you experienced users would be much appreciated.

Ed from SVS, your opinion would be much welcomed also

Jeff
Columbus, OH
Too bad Girard is 170+ miles from Columbus. You could just arrange for a demo at the factory. If they could have an Ultra in the finish you desire and a +/2 ready, and you could convince yourself you would come home with one or the other, then it wouldn't be such a long trip. Though I don't know if I would drive for 6 hours to save $99.

I have a +/2 and will be demoing a U13 this weekend. I will let you know my thoughts on both.

Z06_Pilot

12-04-07, 01:20 PM

mojomike

12-04-07, 01:24 PM

If it's out of site anyway, the PC13 may work for you.

ransac

12-04-07, 01:57 PM

Oh, I don't mind the drive at all. I would like to check out the place. I did not know they could provide demos of the two.....I have a call into them to discuss the two subs.

I'll mention that. I will be living with this for 10 or more years, so I want to make the right choice, so 170 miles is no big deal.

frankly, from an appearance standpoint, the Plus/2 wins hands-down IMO, but it will be out of sight behind my towering Magnepan 3.5r front left anyway(I swear it's like living with the monoliths from Kubrick's 2001 sometimes), and form must follow function with subs, right?

thanks for the tip..To go with the Maggies, I would want the U13 in box or cylinder form. Again, I will let you know my impressions of the U13 after this weekend.

Like Mike says, the cylinder could disappear behind one of the Maggies, but the premium finished boxes do look nice. Of course, best placement may not be behind one of the mains.

Ron Temple

12-04-07, 02:11 PM

I will be living with this for 10 or more years, so I want to make the right choice, so 170 miles is no big deal.

If this is a 10 year purchase, get the U13, you won't regret it in the least.

rydenfan

12-04-07, 03:26 PM

I'll mention that. I will be living with this for 10 or more years, so I want to make the right choice, so 170 miles is no big deal.

What is $500 amortized over 10 years? Not much. In fact, it is about $4 a month. For that type of long term investment there is no question you should go with the PB-13.

Z06_Pilot

12-04-07, 04:59 PM

What is $500 amortized over 10 years? Not much. In fact, it is about $4 a month. For that type of long term investment there is no question you should go with the PB-13.

yea, well, when you put it like that. pretty silly to be concerned with $500 when I, like many of you, have many thousands of bucks tied up in my HT.

Just got off the phone with Eric at SVS. the wait time for any finish with a new order is 2-5 weeks. They are waiting on amps.....it's always the Canadians:D hey, I really am kidding, I just couldn't resist!

I'm going to read the threads more to find out if there are sonic differences between the cylinder and the box, then place my order and stand in line.

thanks for the advice, folks.....

ransac

12-04-07, 05:05 PM

yea, well, when you put it like that. pretty silly to be concerned with $500 when I, like many of you, have many thousands of bucks tied up in my HT.

Just got off the phone with Eric at SVS. the wait time for any finish with a new order is 2-5 weeks. They are waiting on amps.....it's always the Canadians:D hey, I really am kidding, I just couldn't resist!

I'm going to read the threads more to find out if there are sonic differences between the cylinder and the box, then place my order and stand in line.

thanks for the advice, folks.....You probably won't find anyone that has heard both the box and the tube. Generally, the box will dig a little deeper due to a slightly larger enclosure. The boxes are much heavier and more difficult for one person to move, but they have the nicer finish options. The tube has a much smaller footprint, is easier to move, and would hide behind your Maggies much better. As with most, your wife will hate the tube. My wife liked the cylinder, but most don't.

mojomike

12-04-07, 06:08 PM

The guy who has heard both of them and can paint a very accurate picture of the subtle differences would be Ed Mullen at SVS.

imromo24

12-04-07, 07:11 PM

I'm more than likely going to run the 20-39 PC+ in 16hz mode as well. I figure in my small 900 cubic foot room the combo should give me a ton of impact and extension. Out of curiosity, how does music sound with the combination? Does the 20-39 PC+ make music sound better than with just the PB10? Does having the PB10 with the 20-39 PC+ make it any less tight than just the 20-39 PC+ by itself? Also, how big is your room, and how are your subs situated? Sorry for all of the questions - I'm just really curious because it's a somewhat odd combo when you think about it, but it's cool to hear from someone else that has it. Incidentally, I'll probably be ordering my 20-39 PC+ on Wednesday.

No problem on the questions, I like to talk subwoofers...

I have to believe that the pb10 would actually be tighter with music because of the woofers smaller size being quicker and the fact its in a box with a single port makes it tighter also? Just thinking out loud. However, the 39+ definately hits deeper and louder. I moved my system around many many times. Different locations as well as different orientation and settings. Below are some of mine and my take on the result:

This is in my basement, 7700cuft, theater is open to the rest of the basement on the right side.

Locations...and results:
1) PB10 nearfield behind my couch with the port pointed at the couch back and the 39+ in the back left corner...This probably had the most upper bass range impact for music, I also crossed over the reciever at a higher level (125hz) when it was like this to get the impact...it didn't fill the room the best.
2)PB10 rear left corner and 39+ near field behind the couch...this had the deepest and loudest bass for that area, great for movies...but again didn't provide the most even bass throughout the room.
3) Stacked the 39+ on the pb10 in the rear left corner...this was a nightmare and didn't last long because it was so difficult to get the phasing right (probably because one is downfireing and the other front firing)
4)Pb10 front left corner and 39+ rear left corner....this was quite noticeably louder and easier to get the phasing right, but the pb 10 was drowned out being so far up front and the 39+ in the back...it produced the most even bass and was loudest up to this point.
5)The final resting place is the 39+ in the front left corner and the pb10 in the rear left corner...it gives the tight impact of the pb10 closer and the room filling deep bass from the front out of the 39+, loudest and smoothest (even) bass.

Be sure to buy a Y-spliiter if you need it...and buy 20' subwoofer cables to give yourself the ability to move them around. Take the rubber feet off the pb10 and it slides nicely.

I messed around alot with different crossover settings. 100hz was probably my favorite and I often go back to it for music but I was finding that I could localize the pb10 even with a crossover of 80hz, I get even more bass (no cancellation) when I have my fronts set to Large so I am at 50hz now and change it if I feel the need. The nice thing about the dual subs is you don't have to stress them out to get your volume levels....for instance:

Try different settings on the plus, you can turn the 39+'s crossover on and allow it to emphasize the lowest bass (under 60hz) and that allows a nice transition and a big surprise during movies when both subs play 60 and below.
You have a smaller room so you may find that 2 ports plugged and hitting 12hz is better than constant extreme bass (which you may not use very often except for impressive demos)

Check out the owners manual for the Gotham here http://home.jlaudio.com/pdfs/10427.pdf it gives some great subwoofer location recommendations.

Thats my life story :D

Sherardp

12-04-07, 07:59 PM

If this is a 10 year purchase, get the U13, you won't regret it in the least.

Y not dual plus 2s

Ron Temple

12-04-07, 08:33 PM

Y not dual plus 2sbcuz I'm an elitest bastid that looks down on u lowly Plus/2 owners :p

ransac

12-05-07, 12:03 AM

bcuz I'm an elitest bastid that looks down on u lowly Plus/2 owners :pNow I'm hurt.:mad:

Ron Temple

12-05-07, 02:51 AM

Now I'm hurt.:mad:
You should be...it was a deliciously low blow delivered with precise impact...;)

lalakersfan34

12-05-07, 03:02 AM

No problem on the questions, I like to talk subwoofers...

I have to believe that the pb10 would actually be tighter with music because of the woofers smaller size being quicker and the fact its in a box with a single port makes it tighter also? Just thinking out loud. However, the 39+ definately hits deeper and louder. I moved my system around many many times. Different locations as well as different orientation and settings. Below are some of mine and my take on the result:

This is in my basement, 7700cuft, theater is open to the rest of the basement on the right side.

Locations...and results:
1) PB10 nearfield behind my couch with the port pointed at the couch back and the 39+ in the back left corner...This probably had the most upper bass range impact for music, I also crossed over the reciever at a higher level (125hz) when it was like this to get the impact...it didn't fill the room the best.
2)PB10 rear left corner and 39+ near field behind the couch...this had the deepest and loudest bass for that area, great for movies...but again didn't provide the most even bass throughout the room.
3) Stacked the 39+ on the pb10 in the rear left corner...this was a nightmare and didn't last long because it was so difficult to get the phasing right (probably because one is downfireing and the other front firing)
4)Pb10 front left corner and 39+ rear left corner....this was quite noticeably louder and easier to get the phasing right, but the pb 10 was drowned out being so far up front and the 39+ in the back...it produced the most even bass and was loudest up to this point.
5)The final resting place is the 39+ in the front left corner and the pb10 in the rear left corner...it gives the tight impact of the pb10 closer and the room filling deep bass from the front out of the 39+, loudest and smoothest (even) bass.

Be sure to buy a Y-spliiter if you need it...and buy 20' subwoofer cables to give yourself the ability to move them around. Take the rubber feet off the pb10 and it slides nicely.

I messed around alot with different crossover settings. 100hz was probably my favorite and I often go back to it for music but I was finding that I could localize the pb10 even with a crossover of 80hz, I get even more bass (no cancellation) when I have my fronts set to Large so I am at 50hz now and change it if I feel the need. The nice thing about the dual subs is you don't have to stress them out to get your volume levels....for instance:

Try different settings on the plus, you can turn the 39+'s crossover on and allow it to emphasize the lowest bass (under 60hz) and that allows a nice transition and a big surprise during movies when both subs play 60 and below.
You have a smaller room so you may find that 2 ports plugged and hitting 12hz is better than constant extreme bass (which you may not use very often except for impressive demos)

Check out the owners manual for the Gotham here http://home.jlaudio.com/pdfs/10427.pdf it gives some great subwoofer location recommendations.

Thats my life story :D

Sweet! Thanks for all the info. Yeah, my room is 900 cu feet, so my placement options are a bit more limited :p. I'm actually running duals right now. My room is at an angle, with the TV in a corner. The PB10-NSD is nearfield, about a foot or two behind me near the back right corner, and my other sub (currently an Infinity PS212, soon to be 20-39 PC+) is in the front corner behind the TV. Fortunately, I've found that this placement for both subs actually yields a very flat, tight response. It's just the PS212 isn't really helping much with output, since the PB10 is so close to me. I'm using it mostly to help smooth out response, because in my nearly square room, the PB10 by itself (or the Infinity by itself) has some pretty nasty peaks/nulls. So I'm looking forward to the 20-39 PC+. It should add a lot more deep bass in 16hz mode. And its output capability is significantly better than the PB10, so it should actually add quite a bit of volume, I would think. The PB10 nearfield will keep bass really punchy and visceral. Can't wait to try it out! Thanks again for sharing your experience.

Stephen

Flats

12-05-07, 11:05 AM

I may have to end up with Orb satellites, but I'd rather substitute the PB-10 for the Orb sub. Orb recommends a 120hz crossover for the sats. Does that mean you set the PB-10 at 120, or do you want some overlap? Will the PB-10 sound OK at a crossover that high? I'll be using the Onkyo 605, if that matters.

Obviously, I'm a rookie. Thanks for any help.

OvalNut

12-05-07, 11:09 AM

You can use the PB-10 crossed that high, and it wll perform much better than the Orb sub.

The trick to making a high crossover work for you is to place the sub up front and as close to the main speakers as possible, as long as that position also yields acceptable bass response in general.

Tim

imromo24

12-05-07, 06:44 PM

And its output capability is significantly better than the PB10, so it should actually add quite a bit of volume, I would think. The PB10 nearfield will keep bass really punchy and visceral. Can't wait to try it out! Thanks again for sharing your experience.

Stephen

You will definately be surprised by the 39+'s output in your room. I bought mine off a friend (who upgraded to the ultra) and the first time we hooked it up I couldn't believe the improvement for a measly $400 over the PB10. Well worth the money. It was a shock because I thought the pb10 was a steal at $400. AWESOME! (of course initially I thought $100 for a sub was alot, it all changed my idea of HT subwoofers)

With the PB10 nearfield like you say I think you have it right, but definately play with the XO and phase. Did you check out the link and find the owner manual? I think the 39+ will overpower the pb10, but keeping it close to your seat will add that punch.

lalakersfan34

12-05-07, 07:27 PM

You will definately be surprised by the 39+'s output in your room. I bought mine off a friend (who upgraded to the ultra) and the first time we hooked it up I couldn't believe the improvement for a measly $400 over the PB10. Well worth the money. It was a shock because I thought the pb10 was a steal at $400. AWESOME! (of course initially I thought $100 for a sub was alot, it all changed my idea of HT subwoofers)

With the PB10 nearfield like you say I think you have it right, but definately play with the XO and phase. Did you check out the link and find the owner manual? I think the 39+ will overpower the pb10, but keeping it close to your seat will add that punch.

Yep, that's the plan. I'll mess around with it when I get it. I have some bonus money coming in from work next week, so I'll get it then. I'd considered the 20-39 PCi, but after talking with Ed, I found that the 20-39 PC+ would probably suit my needs better.

GoFlashGo

12-06-07, 08:48 AM

Roger Clark

12-06-07, 09:35 AM

My 2 year old yanked on the RCA output of my sub and the male prong broke off in the sub's input. There is not enough sticking out to pull out with needle nose pliers. Anyone know how to easily fix this? Can the output be safely replaced by me and if so where do I get a new one?

Thanks

First thing I'd do is remove the amp (AFTER UNPLUGGING AND WAITING A BIT FOR ANY RESIDUAL CURRENT TO SUBSIDE) and see if the RCA socket can be accessed from the inside. If so, it should be easy enough to push the broken prong out from the inside (or pull it on through with needle nose). You would need to remove the amp anyway to replace the female RCA jack...

txmatt

12-06-07, 09:40 AM

My 2 year old yanked on the RCA output of my sub and the male prong broke off in the sub's input. There is not enough sticking out to pull out with needle nose pliers. Anyone know how to easily fix this? Thanks

I could think of two ways to attempt...

1. Take some sort of small rod that is the same diamater or smaller than the RCA post (coathanger possibly), put a small drop of some adhesive(Superglue?) on the end, and insert and hold against the broken-off piece of the connector. Hopefully the glue bond will be strong enough to allow you to pull the RCA prong out.

2. Delicate, almost dental-esque surgery. Use a very small drill or dremmel bit and drill a small hole in the end of the RCA prong. Attempt to thread an appropriately small screw in the hole you just drilled. As it begins to bite it should start turning the prong. Keep turning clockwise like you're trying to tighten the screw while pulling out.

Sherardp

12-06-07, 09:41 AM

bcuz I'm an elitest bastid that looks down on u lowly Plus/2 owners :p

Now thats just wrong, as soon as Im setup here, I'll add an Ultra or another plus/2. Imagine that, 3 plus/2s or my current dual plus/2s + Ultra 13. That should be enough bass to kick the snot out of anyone.

goneten

12-06-07, 10:07 AM

I have to believe that the pb10 would actually be tighter with music because of the woofers smaller size being quicker and the fact its in a box with a single port makes it tighter also? Just thinking out loud.

A woofer operating within it's pistonic range is not dependent on size (or mass) for it's speed. There is no such thing (from a mechanical perspective) as a "fast" woofer.

Cheers.

--Regards,

AnthemAVM

12-06-07, 10:27 AM

My 2 year old yanked on the RCA output of my sub and the male prong broke off in the sub's input. There is not enough sticking out to pull out with needle nose pliers. Anyone know how to easily fix this? Can the output be safely replaced by me and if so where do I get a new one?

Thanks

That happended with my JL, I had to send it back to them. I would ask SVS support what they recommend.

Michael

oztech

12-06-07, 10:42 AM

if the center post is somewhat hollow most are you can try threading a small long
screw in the center as you pull on it and it should come out.

imromo24

12-06-07, 05:38 PM

same thing happened to me, the center is plastic and will pull out with some tape or glue like suggested, or I think I used a needle to get the plast out and then put a smaller diameter screw into the metal piece that will be left and get some friction by pulling it out on an angle. It will be ok!

imromo24

12-06-07, 05:41 PM

A woofer operating within it's pistonic range is not dependent on size (or mass) for it's speed. There is no such thing (from a mechanical perspective) as a "fast" woofer.

Cheers.

--Regards,

Thanks for the technical correction...I must be just thinking that it is faster when really it has a different frequency range that it operates best at. Is there a quick explanation why a 10" woofer hits harder than a 12" (or lets say even an 18") at higher frequencies or is that not true also...Thanks.

imromo24

12-06-07, 05:44 PM

I'd considered the 20-39 PCi, but after talking with Ed, I found that the 20-39 PC+ would probably suit my needs better.

What were the needs that were suited better?

goneten

12-08-07, 11:42 AM

Is there a quick explanation why a 10" woofer hits harder than a 12" (or lets say even an 18") at higher frequencies or is that not true also...Thanks.

Enclosure type, alignment and EQ. Sorry that isn't a quick explanation. I don't do quick explanations. :)

All things being equal, the larger the radiating surface (linear excursion kept the same), the more air displacement there will be. An 18" driver can shift more air than a 10" or 12" driver and so will hit harder.

The range of bass frequencies that are associated with the terms "slam" and "punch" are much higher up in the frequency band. One can design a speaker with lots of mid bass punch in the 60 to 100 hz range (a high Q alignment with a quick roll off at low frequencies) and it will, subjectively speaking, give you more "kick".

With a given amount of force, an 18" driver will shift more air in the time required per stroke than a 10" driver and with correspondingly low woofer excursion so distortion will be minimal too.

But the "speed" issue that you alluded to is bunk because the smaller 10" or 12" driver will have to move quicker to move the requisite amount of air (air displacement per stroke will be a squared function). How far the cone is going to move is proportional to the period of time squared. This means that the 10" or 12" driver will have to move further in the same amount of time).

All that this means at the end of the day (from a technical standpoint) is that if the cone is not moving quick enough (displace enough air) then it won't be able to reproduce that frequency.

Cheers !

--Regards,

lalakersfan34

12-08-07, 04:50 PM

What were the needs that were suited better?

Needs that unfortunately are put on hold for quite a while. My TV is having issues and I need to purchase a new one. So the subwoofer will need to wait. To be honest things sound great as they are, and the extra, house shaking headroom probably isn't necessary. At any rate, a new TV is necessary before any additional SVS subs. Thanks for your subwoofer input, though, imromo24. I'll keep it in mind if or when I decide to get another subwoofer.

Major Nelson

12-10-07, 11:47 PM

I'm looking at SVS as a couple of friends rave about them....my room is 13x19 and will be 50/50 music/movies...I'm going with B&W 68 Series speakers would the PB12-NSD be a good match? Or should I go with the SB12-Plus?

pdadi

12-11-07, 12:00 AM

lalakersfan34

12-11-07, 12:09 AM

For that room pB12-NSD.

I agree. The SB12+ might be a little better for music, but it won't even be close to the PB12-NSD for HT.

pdadi

12-11-07, 01:34 AM

I agree. The SB12+ might be a little better for music, but it won't even be close to the PB12-NSD for HT.

I have PB12-ISD in similar sized room placed nearfield. I am in bass heaven:D

pdadi

12-11-07, 02:06 PM

Is it common for sub to vibrate? My PB12-isd vibrates a little bit some times on some low bass heavy scenes. This is at -5 below reference.

Ron Temple

12-11-07, 04:19 PM

Is it common for sub to vibrate? My PB12-isd vibrates a little bit some times on some low bass heavy scenes. This is at -5 below reference.
I've seen them walk across the room...throw some weight on it ;). -5 might be pushing the sub and your AVR a bit...you don't want to clip the amps and fry your speakers, AVR or sub. I never attempted reference level, in my room, until I had separate amps driving my speakers and knew I had headroom.

v1rtu0s1ty

12-11-07, 04:31 PM

If this thread already exists, please disregard. I looked, but couldn't find it.

I recently purchased a PB Plus/2, and have been itching to share my experience so far. Here's my 5.1 set-up:

Denon AVR 5803 (Purchased Used)
Panasonic S97 DVD Player
Samsung 5687 DLP
GR Research A/V3S x 3
GR Research A/V1RS x 2
SVS PB Plus/2
PURE AV Power conditioner

Listening area is 14x17x8 living room with one 8' opening to kitchen/dining area, and one opening to hallway, laminate floor with large area rug, SVS position is RF corner next to ent center (very limited in where I could put it), listening position is center of 14' wall across from TV, Not an ideal HT room, but could be worse.

Settings:

All speakers set to 75 db, with SVS running hot at about 82 db
SVS Gain at 1/4, 20 hz tune (one port plug), used the included 3M rubber feet
LFE pre-out on Denon is -3.0 db

Listening is 90/10 Movies to Music

After more research than I care to get into, I settled on the Velodyne HGS 15x and the SVS PB Plus/2. I actually ordered the Velodyne, but it was discontinued. I had decided on the Velodyne mostly because of the smaller size and the positive experience a relative of mine has had with his. The SVS and the Velodyne seemed to be close in performance based on what I had read, but
the size of the SVS was scaring me off. WAF. She's been very patient with my hobby. After the Velodyne fell through, I decided to order the SVS rather than looking elsewhere for the Velodyne. Got the size past the wife by telling her it was a lot cheaper than the Velo. I'VE NEVER LOOKED BACK!

Support from SVS before, during, and after the sale has been outstanding. It was shipped fast, and arrived on it's own pallet, very well packaged. The manual and set-up were a snap. I have since contacted SVS a couple times with questions and comments, and they always reply quickly and seem very interested in my impression of their product. Not to mention the money I saved by going with the SVS.

It's performance so far has been excellent. I had a Klipsch KSW 15 prior to the SVS, and let me tell you, this thing blows it away, and the Klipsch was no slouch. From the sock explosion in Monsters Inc. to the Tripods in WOTW, I'm lovin my new toy.

Sorry if this was a puff piece, and again, I hope an owners thread doesn't already exist. If so, let me have it, if not, lets hear about your SVS!

Very glad to hear that you are very happy with your new sub. I owned an SVS subwoofer too and it was 20-39 PCi. I'm very happy with the performance especially when it shakes my room. Unfortunately, I let her go last week due to upgraditis. She now lives in RI. :D I will be building a DIY sub next year and in fact, the 2 18" Q18 Fi drivers are arriving Monday. It's going to be an infinite baffle(IB) setup. I'm still very young about it. So hopefully, it will work out for me well.

Anyways, I'm very glad you are very happy with your new SVS sub. May I request, please play the "The Haunting - DTS". You still haven't seen what that SVS can do when you play that movie, forgot which chapter/scene though! :D

jayrader

12-11-07, 04:40 PM

My wife hates my SVS, because she has to wash lots of extra loads of pants.

imromo24

12-12-07, 04:58 PM

Needs that unfortunately are put on hold for quite a while. My TV is having issues and I need to purchase a new one. So the subwoofer will need to wait. To be honest things sound great as they are, and the extra, house shaking headroom probably isn't necessary. At any rate, a new TV is necessary before any additional SVS subs. Thanks for your subwoofer input, though, imromo24. I'll keep it in mind if or when I decide to get another subwoofer.

Who needs a TV anyway...JK..Go over to the Projector forum and look into projectors, youll be able to save some money and get a bigger picture, then you can get back to adding more house shaking bass quicker.

good luck, very sad story indeed :(

NismoZ

12-13-07, 03:58 PM

I can't imagine what the 13 Ultra /2 will look like. Think they can get enough box volume for 2 of those monsters? Prolly wiegh in at 225lbs... Wonder what the price will be too.

AnthemAVM

12-13-07, 04:22 PM

I can't imagine what the 13 Ultra /2 will look like. Think they can get enough box volume for 2 of those monsters? Prolly wiegh in at 225lbs... Wonder what the price will be too.

I thought we heard that SVS was going to stick with single driver subwoofers.

Michael

NismoZ

12-13-07, 04:26 PM

I thought we heard that SVS was going to stick with single driver subwoofers.

Michael

I am trying to find out where I saw this; but you are right. This does make sense. 2 PB13s would give more enclosure space, less port noise, more watts, and more even bass in rooms.

P.S - Selling my PC 20-39 Plus, great for any of you bass heads that want a bigger or 2nd PC+. PM me with an offer.

goneten

12-18-07, 03:26 PM

To all South Africans, SVS has just expanded their dealer network ! Personally, I just want to thank Ron and Tom for allowing us South Africans to enjoy this benefit.

From a loyal SVS supporter. Thank you. :)

--Regards,

thrand1

01-02-08, 04:21 PM

So, I could use another recommendation from all you SVS experts, as things have changed in my plans for an HT setup.

I am going to stick to 2.1 in the interim, then add on later. Split is now going to be about 60% HT/ 40% music. The mains have changed to be Focal bookshelves, and I am now looking for a more "musical" sub, and the PB12-NSD I was previously considering seems to be a little bit on the "slow" side, so here's my conundrum...

- 3000+ sq ft room
- $800 budget (this includes shipping)

The more musical sub offering from SVS seems to be the SB12-Plus. I know that one alone will not offer the oomph I'm looking for down low for things like War of the Worlds and Finding Nemo, so I was wondering if buying one now and another down the road would be best? It may be a while between purchases...or, should I buy two PB10-NSD's now? I know they don't have crossover adjustments on the sub, but I will be hooking these up to an Onkyo TX-SR805.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Really tearing my hair out over this...

mojomike

01-02-08, 04:28 PM

The SB12 is very musical, but don't expect to be blown away when you use it to play War of the Worlds, Nemo, etc. Look toward a larger sub for that.

lalakersfan34

01-03-08, 03:08 AM

Who needs a TV anyway...JK..Go over to the Projector forum and look into projectors, youll be able to save some money and get a bigger picture, then you can get back to adding more house shaking bass quicker.

good luck, very sad story indeed :(

Well, I got my TV...40" Samsung LCD (pretty impressive from a viewing distance of 6' :)). Anyway, with the new TV being LCD, I have more room for sub placement behind it. Tried putting my PB10-NSD back there, and it fit. Anyway, after talking to Ed a little more, we both came to the conclusion that the most cost-effective way for me to really increase bass output was to stack 2 PB10-NSD's behind my TV in the corner. And that's what I'm going to do. I ordered my second PB10-NSD on December 31, so hopefully it'll be here in a few days. I'm thinking stacked PB10's in my ~900 cubic foot room should suffice for quite a while :D. Just thought I've give the update, romo.

imromo24

01-03-08, 11:47 AM

Anyway, after talking to Ed a little more, we both came to the conclusion that the most cost-effective way for me to really increase bass output was to stack 2 PB10-NSD's behind my TV in the corner.

Thanks for the update. What direction are you pointing the woofers?

Out of curiosity was one of the reasons for going with another pb10 due to phasing issues with different size/shape subs?

thrand1

01-03-08, 12:55 PM

The SB12 is very musical, but don't expect to be blown away when you use it to play War of the Worlds, Nemo, etc. Look toward a larger sub for that.

Ok, so I just had a conversation with Ed at SVS, and he recommended one of the following scenarios:

1) dual, co-located PB-10NSD
2) PB12-Plus

Just a quick refresher on my situation:
- 3000+ sq ft room (floorplan attached)
- 60% HT (War of the Worlds, Nemo, etc)/ 40% music

My primary concern is a sub that can "keep up" with the music but still provide good extension and SPL for movie applications. Any suggestions/thoughts on which of the above options you think would fit best?

lalakersfan34

01-03-08, 01:17 PM

Thanks for the update. What direction are you pointing the woofers?

Out of curiosity was one of the reasons for going with another pb10 due to phasing issues with different size/shape subs?

I'm actually really sensitive to directionality when it comes to front-firing subs. With the Infinity in the corner there behind the TV, if I had the woofer pointing toward one side or the other, that side of the soundstage seemed to be "bass-heavy" (crossover at 80hz) - not significantly so, but it was perceivable to me. I don't know if that's normal, or if I have some kind of hypersensitivity to bass directionality, but at any rate, I had to have it facing so it fired straight at the LP (pretty much at the back of my TV stand), and it sounded fine. The PB10 is too deep to fit that way, so it has to go diagonally in the corner, running parallel to my TV and firing perpendicularly to my LP. The solution Ed and I came up with is that the one i currently have will face firing left, while I'll stack the second on top, firing right. Level-matched, they should produce a great soundstage for me.

The move toward dual PB10 wasn't so much a phasing issue, but a cost-effectiveness issue. Ed had recommended dual PB10 before, but the space behind the TV wasn't sufficient for even one PB10, much less a second one stacked on top. My TV was CRT, so magnetic interference of a second PB10 stacked so that it's driver and magnetic structure was probably 8 inches from the TV was a bad idea, even if it would have fit. Now that my TV is LCD, it's freed up a bit of room behind and eliminated the magnetic interference issue. So before, the cylinders were the only subs that could fit there, while now dual PB10-NSD can fit. He also said I should get higher SPL's from stacked PB10's than a PB10 and a 20-39 PCi, in a non co-located arrangement. As an added bonus, the PB10 is about $150 cheaper as well :). Anyway, I'll have more to say when I get the second PB10 all hooked up.

Warpdrv

01-03-08, 10:45 PM

Ok, so I just had a conversation with Ed at SVS, and he recommended one of the following scenarios:

1) dual, co-located PB-10NSD
2) PB12-Plus

Just a quick refresher on my situation:
- 3000+ sq ft room (floorplan attached)
- 60% HT (War of the Worlds, Nemo, etc)/ 40% music

My primary concern is a sub that can "keep up" with the music but still provide good extension and SPL for movie applications. Any suggestions/thoughts on which of the above options you think would fit best?

I would go for at least a PB12-Plus/2 or dual PB12-Plus's

The Plus/2's will be discontinued soon, don't miss your chance, snatch one up... I just got my second Plus/2 in Piano Black off the B-Stock Page for $950.00. Quite the deal... keep your eyes Peeled... :)

imromo24

01-04-08, 12:21 PM

The solution Ed and I came up with is that the one i currently have will face firing left, while I'll stack the second on top, firing right.

sounds like great service and a great solution!

Now that my TV is LCD, it's freed up a bit of room behind...So before, the cylinders were the only subs that could fit there, while now dual PB10-NSD can fit.

hmm did your old TV really break :cool: JK

lalakersfan34

01-04-08, 02:26 PM

sounds like great service and a great solution!

hmm did your old TV really break :cool: JK

Haha, you caught me. It didn't actually break, per se, but there were some annoyances I couldn't get over. First, my center channel needed to be on top of the TV, but when I played certain discs at high volumes, it made weird distorted horizontal flickering lines across the TV (really annoying). I tried all kinds of stuff to get rid of the problem, to no avail. Second, the TV had already had issues and I had the logic board replaced. Unfortunately, when it was fixed, it has a pretty loud buzz/hum sound that can be audible if a scene is very quiet. However, it is now out of warranty and I didn't want to throw more money at it. Plus, I had a few hundred dollars in Best Buy gift cards, so I just decided it was worth replacing it for a bigger screen (40" LCD vs. 26" CRT is a big difference from 6' away).

So no, it didn't break, but the circumstances indicated that the time was ripe for a replacement. And let's not give Ed too much credit...I actually came up with the idea of having them stacked, firing opposite directions...he just said it would work well and probably be a good solution for my situation :p. Nah, seriously though, I really appreciate all of his input. He answered probably close to a dozen e-mails and has provided valuable advice. My second PB10 should be here by next Wednesday at the latest, according to UPS, so I'll make sure to give my impressions once it's here.

imromo24

01-04-08, 05:11 PM

;)

lalakersfan34

01-04-08, 05:35 PM

;):)

stubro

01-05-08, 11:56 AM

Guys need your help I am selling one of my SVSs PB12-Plus and I need to find out the size of the BASH Amp. I cant find it anywhere any ideas? I bought it in Aug/06 and it is a textured black. Thanks

In case you wondering why I am selling I had the PB-12 then the wife complaioned so I got the PC Ultra which she was ok with. I never returned the PB12 so now I am selling. Thanks in advance.

robbroy

01-05-08, 12:09 PM

stubro,

Does this answer your question: http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-plus1.cfm#amp ?

-Robb

stubro

01-05-08, 12:11 PM

Robb,
Not sure it does since mine in 18 months old did they always have 525Watt amps? I cant find a history or a label on mine. I know I should know but I dont :)
Stuart

robbroy

01-05-08, 12:53 PM

Stuart,

I'm 99.9% certain the PB12-Plus always had a 525 watt amp.

-Robb

robbroy

01-05-08, 12:57 PM

Stuart,

I can make it 100% certain yours has a 525 watt amp. I found an old version of that product's page mentioning the 525 watt amp, and also that they were on back order until April 2006 -- four months before you bought yours.

-Robb

stubro

01-05-08, 01:12 PM

Great thanks a lot guys. Appreciate the effort. I just couldnt find it.

gdelvecc

01-05-08, 03:17 PM

Hello,
I'm considering an SVS SB12-Plus. My receiver/amplifier is a Pioneer Elite VSX-84. Can someone tell me if these two items will pair well? What are my options (and what is the 'best' option) for connecting the subwoofer to this amplifier?
Thanks for any information.

mojomike

01-05-08, 03:22 PM

There's nothing magical about pairing a sub with a receiver. Pretty much any powered sub will work with any receiver that has a sub output. Just run a sub cable from the receiver's sub output to either of the low level inputs on the SB12.

jvgillow

01-07-08, 01:09 PM

I need a photo of a db12.1 woofer can anyone point me to one? Bonus points if it's sitting next to a 12.2 or 12.3.

AnthemAVM

01-07-08, 11:02 PM

Any news from SVS at CES?

Warpdrv

01-08-08, 12:33 AM

From the Shack...

Guys,

Just wanted to let you know the speaker pages for the MTS-01 family have FR's listed for each model now.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-...fm#mbs01_specs (http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-mts01.cfm#mbs01_specs)

All are in production and the first ones should go out the door Wednesday. Watch for your shipping notices. We'll hold pre-order prices till morning of the 2nd, in case anyone was on the fence. The freebies go away then too. We'll be showing a full 7.1 MTS-01 system and some Ultra subs, and potentially the working pre-production prototype of the SubEQ we've worked up with Audyssey (not unlike the MTS-01 speakers, a project that's well behind our planned schedule, but has made significant progress finally: http://www.svsound.com/products/acce...k_CESpromo.pdf (http://www.svsound.com/products/accessories/SVS_AudyessyFrontBack_CESpromo.pdf)
).

Should be fun. Watch for your shipping notices. Then I expect a spate of "SVS flu" afterwards. Once you fire these up you won't want stop listening for a while. The MBS-01's I'm running just with a 25-31PCi in a bedroom system is pretty stunning. They sound great with NO sub in fact, though we're bass nuts so we'll tend to recommend SVS subs back these up for an effortless low end.

Drop me a line if you want to slot a time to come by and see us at the Hilton in Vegas and hear what we've brought.

Happy New Year to all from SVS,

Ron Stimpson

BrianKR

01-09-08, 01:21 PM

I am thinking about upgrading my 12.1 to 12.3 and I am looking for info between the 2 drivers.

What are the differences?
More output, better sound quality, higher excursion?

mojomike

01-09-08, 02:00 PM

Brian, you best source for that info would be Ed Mullen from SVS.

BrianKR

01-09-08, 04:54 PM

I just sent svs an email asking them about the 12.3 drivers. I just thought I would post it here incase someone else was interested in the differences or already knew and could tell me.

I'm not sure if I am going to upgrade my drivers or sell my older SVS subs off and purchase a few more PB13's. I am definitely going to order at least one more.

lalakersfan34

01-09-08, 09:31 PM

For those who care, I just received shipment of my second PB10-NSD today. It's set up stacked with my other PB10-NSD in the corner behind my TV in my 11x10x8 (~900CF) room. Haven't done much calibration yet - just set levels and phase with AVIA. So far, it's great. I haven't played much extremely loud material yet (I try to wait for others to be out of the house when i do that), but I did briefly crank the volume for a couple different discs and it sounded great.

I put in Star Wars Episode III and watched the ship flyby at the very beginning at 0 MV on my Pioneer Elite Receiver, and the room was more pressurized than before, with a much more menacing rumble. Previously, if I went louder than about -4, I could tell the sub wasn't able to keep up.

Next, I tried Dream Theater's "Systematic Chaos" DVD (Dolby Digital track, recorded very hot). Track 4, "Dark Eternal Night" has an absolute kick drum barrage, and for most of the song I listened at a modest volume level around -17. Toward the end, the drummer goes berserk with a double kick drum, and for a few seconds I boosted the volume to around -10 and to be honest, it SCARED me. Didn't want to disturb the family much so I turned it back down quickly, but with dual PB10's, that passage at such a high volume was downright frightening. I know I wasn't even approaching the limits of the PB10's either. My single PB10 could do pretty well to around -12 or so before I could tell there was compression. I don't think I'll ever listen loud enough to cause compression with my dual PB10's, which, to be honest, is the main reason I got the second one.

Finally, I put in The Eagles Farewell concert DVD, and the DTS track sounded clean and energetic at -14 on my master volume. The bass was smooth and energizing. This concert recording has a very punchy kick drum. Combined with the staccato, nimble bass lines present in many of the Eagles' songs, it was a good measure of how dual PB10's would be able to keep up and stay tight and accurate at a pretty high volume. It never got boomy, just louder and more punchy, so I could feel it in my chest and through the floor.

So far I'm loving my second PB10. Again, I haven't done any major calibration yet - still need to run individual frequencies and find any peaks in the response. But so far, things are great. The biggest difference I've noticed so far is that dynamics have been much better, probably because the single PB10 might have been compressing some at high volumes, while the dual PB10's have headroom to spare at any sane listening level in my small ~900 cubic foot room. I'll have to do a lot more testing with demo scenes later on. Ok imromo24, that was for you, so I hope you enjoyed it!

Stephen

BTW, many thanks to Ed Mullen for all of his advice - it's much appreciated, and has made an already happy SVS customer thrilled!

ransac

01-10-08, 12:36 AM

lalakersfan34

01-10-08, 12:54 AM

Congrats, LF. I haven't heard one, but I have read that the PB10 exceeds expectations. It must be a case of the results being greater than the sum of its parts. If I recall, Craig once said people at his brother's speaker shop were surprised by the output from this 10" sub.

Yeah, SQ is excellent, though it's obviously not up there with all the big boys here on AVS with their PB13U's. Still, stacked PB10's in a <900 cubic foot room is pretty potent, IMO :D.

Stephen

NismoZ

01-10-08, 08:44 AM

I put in Star Wars Episode III and watched the ship flyby at the very beginning at 0 MV on my Pioneer Elite Receiver

What does the 0 MV mean in this line? I have an idea, just wanted to confirm...

tonybradley

01-10-08, 08:58 AM

Hello everyone. I just purchased a PB12-NSD from SVS' B-Stock yesterday. Ed Mullen told me it has a new Amp, and they are going to send to Craigsub so he can do a new review with the new amp. I had an A5-350 from eD on order, but after waiting FIVE weeks for it, then realizing it would take another 3-5 Weeks, I decided to jump ship. The A5-350 scored quite a bit higher from Craig, but that was with the older Amp.

My room is only 1,700 ft^3. I can't wait to get it and assume it should kick butt in my theater room. I've had a small Infinity BU-120 Sub for years, and it just wasn't cutting it. I think it rolled off somewhere between 35 and 30Hz. I understand teh PB12-NSD is tuned at 18, but rolls off around 16.

ransac

01-10-08, 10:35 AM

What does the 0 MV mean in this line? I have an idea, just wanted to confirm...It is referring to where the Master Volume is set on the receiver. It doesn't mean much without knowing at what MV the system was calibrated.

pdadi

01-10-08, 10:45 AM

tonybradley

01-10-08, 10:50 AM

Congrats on the purchase of your new sub. Based on the early reports new PB12-nsd seems quite good and b-stock is an excellent deal.

Can you point me to any of the revies on the PB12-NSD with the new amp?

jeffrey r

01-10-08, 10:54 AM

Can you point me to any of the revies on the PB12-NSD with the new amp?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12685154&postcount=171

Of course, as an original PB1-ISD owner, this new amp probably doesn't apply to my sub as an upgrade option. And I've already spent some coin upgrading my ISD woofer to the NSD woofer. Sometimes it can be annoying being an early adopter, but I have really enjoyed the PB1 (PB12) over the years. It may be time for a change soon, and I'm looking at different options from different manufacturers. Lots of good stuff out there these days.

pdadi

01-10-08, 01:09 PM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12685154&postcount=171

Of course, as an original PB1-ISD owner, this new amp probably doesn't apply to my sub as an upgrade option. And I've already spent some coin upgrading my ISD woofer to the NSD woofer. Sometimes it can be annoying being an early adopter, but I have really enjoyed the PB1 (PB12) over the years. It may be time for a change soon, and I'm looking at different options from different manufacturers. Lots of good stuff out there these days.

Recently I upgraded from Bic H100 to PB1-ISD(used). I am pretty happy with its performance. It still has old ISD driver and I don't see any need to upgrade it to new NSD driver.

lalakersfan34

01-10-08, 01:12 PM

It is referring to where the Master Volume is set on the receiver. It doesn't mean much without knowing at what MV the system was calibrated.

I agree, didn't have much time to mess around with things yesterday. Sometime in the near future I'll just list straight up peak SPL levels for different scenes (uncorrected with Radio Shack SPL meter, C weighted, fast, at the LP, which is about 7ft from the stacked PB10's). Thanks for the catch. At the time I wanted to get back to listening quickly, and just wanted to convey that it's loud, accurate, and visceral. I'll be back with more later.

And just to make sure, when using AVIA, reference level is achieved when AVIA's test tones are at 85dB, correct? Is this at the LP? I just want to make sure I calibrate to the level you're referring to when I calibrate Reference Level. The reason i ask is because I've calibrated my setup to 85dB with AVIA before, and it was probably around -10 or so on my Pioneer Elite AVR's master volume. I'd highly doubt I can listen at +4dB to +8dB from reference (which is what a few of my test references were at)! My room is very small, and my speakers are all between 5-6ft from my LP, which would explain why reference would be at such a low receiver MV level. Still, it seems a bit odd to me. Anyway, clarification would be appreciated. Thanks.

Stephen

ransac

01-10-08, 03:09 PM

Ron Temple

01-10-08, 03:51 PM

Can you point me to any of the revies on the PB12-NSD with the new amp?Tony, look at Illka's numbers over on the Shack. He's got both the older and new version posted. Also, for a subjective review, rossandwendy, posted some comments when he plugged the new amp in. I think I linked you over there earlier. From what it sounds like, it's a definite improvement. The numbers nearly equal the Plus...so it's quite an acheivement.

lalakersfan34

01-10-08, 04:23 PM

Reference on your MV is where it is set when you calibrate to 85db (Avia) at the LP. I set mine at -5 because I run out of channel volume adjustment if I calibrate at 0. I don't even pay attention to this setting after calibration. I watch some movies at -20 and others at -10 and some in between. I just adjust to my mood and the movie content. I have one button adjustment of the channel levels, so when the sound track doesn't sound right, I will adjust the SW channel up or down to where it sounds better. I just put it back to the calibration level until the next movie. Not all sound tracks are mixed the same.

I agree with you about sound tracks being mixed differently. I've found that the Star Wars and Matrix movies are mixed much softer than say the Lord of the Rings (DTS or DD). I also adjust the volume based on the source material. I just checked with AVIA, and reference level on my receiver in my small room at the LP is MV -6. So that gives some quantification to my posted results. Just for fun, here's a more detailed write up with a few more sources.

Transformers HD DVD - Ironhide flip
This scene was pretty sweet with one PB10. I ran it this time with my MV at -6 on my Pioneer Elite receiver , subs calibrated about 1-2 dB hot, and it was awesome. Every loose object and structural imperfection made itself known. The shockwave had more authority than before, and there was no sign of the subs running out of gas.

Star Wars Episode I DVD - Pod Race
This scene was quite powerful at MV -5. It was a little more visceral than with the Infinity/PB10 combo, but not too much more. This is likely because the PB10 was nearfield before, giving a bit more actual "punch", but the SPL was higher now, and the soundstage was much smoother. Definitely not a disappointment - the canyon drop and a couple of the podracer flyovers were pretty intense.

Star Wars Episode II DVD - Asteroid Chase and Colosseum Rescue
Ran this one at MV -6. Right off the bat, the ships are coming out of light speed with some serious bass presence :). The seismic charges were very impactful, especially the second one - my chest was definitely being pressurized :D. The missile explosion is pretty powerful, too.

This scene was played at MV -5. At the end of the Colosseum scene, when Yoda and the Clones swoop in to save the few surviving Jedi, all hell breaks loose and the bass from all of the explosions was punchy and ridiculously intense. I felt like I was in the middle of an army firing range, with mortar shells falling all around me. I could feel the individual concussive blasts of each explosion. Very cool...and a little bit scary.

Blue Man Group DVD - Big Drum
Ran the brunt of this DTS surround track at MV -13. The "big drum" used in several songs was extremely tight and packed a quick, lethal "punch" to the gut. The drum was far more dynamic than my previous setup, a testament to the headroom I gained with dual PB10's. I wanted to see how far I could go, and things didn't start compressing until about MV -4. That's DARN LOUD in my tiny room with a DTS track! Awesome performance again on this track.

Dream Theater: Systematic Chaos DVD, "Dark Eternal Night"
This track is about the hottest Dolby Digital track I've ever heard. It's pretty darn loud at MV -17 or so (hotter than just about any DTS track I've heard, in fact!), and that's the level I played this track at. The kick drum in the drum kit is juiced with an almost insane amount of LFE in this 5.1 recording, and it literally feels like you're being kicked in the chest at high volumes. Toward the end, the drummer goes nuts with his double kick drum and I briefly increased the volume to MV -10. Even though I knew what to expect, it actually SCARED me, and I turned it right back down (partially because I was startled, and partially because my family was home and I didn't want to get yelled at). I've played this track for brief periods at MV -9 before, and it wasn't nearly this visceral. Obviously compression was taking place before, and now I was experiencing the full dynamic range of those drum strikes. It was mind blowing, and the frightening thing is I think the dual PB10's had more in the tank!

The Eagles "Farewell Tour" Concert DVD
Didn't listen to this at quite as high a volume as the Dream Theater track because my dad was in listening with me, but it's a pretty lively DTS track, and at MV -14 everything sounded great. The Concert DVD is very well produced. The kick drum in this DVD is very punchy, and combined with the Eagles' nimble, staccato bass lines, the disc easily accents any bloat or sloppiness on the subwoofer's part. The dual PB10's sounded very smooth, accurate, tight, and dynamic, and blended seamlessly with my other speakers.

I'm having lots of fun over here right now, as you can see :D. And at some point I'll post some max SPL's in these and other demo scenes.

Stephen

tonybradley

01-11-08, 10:36 AM

This is the fasting shipping I've had on any electronics. I ordered the SVS Wednesday afternoon. Billing was received by UPS on Thursday, and my sub was in route to my house as of this morning. I read that they have to be signed for. My wife better make it home to sign for this thing,or I'll have to wait for tomorrow.

imromo24

01-12-08, 04:15 PM

lalakersfan34

01-12-08, 06:56 PM

Lakersfan, I moved my 39plus upstairs to my 1050cf den last night and got to watch some of transformers and your description of "and to be honest, it SCARED me" was just about true. (My basement with the 39plus and pb10 is 7700cf) I thought about your dual pb10's and almost went downstairs to bring it up but hesitated too long and never did it, but it will happen.

congrats!

Hey romo,

Good to hear from you. Yeah, nothing like some SVS power in a tiny room, huh? :D. Ed Mullen told me that stacked PB10's should outperform a PB12 Plus above 20hz. Needless to say, I'm ecstatic about the bass performance in my tiny 900 cubic foot room :D. If (or when) you get that PB10 in your small den with the 20-39 PC+, make sure to let me know what it's like. I'm sure some tracks will be absolutely unbelievable.

MasterHoss

01-12-08, 11:45 PM

Can you point me to any of the revies on the PB12-NSD with the new amp?

I just ordered the PB12-NSD. How would I go about making sure that my sub will have the newer amp? (Is there any way to tell just by looking at the amp?)

I've read that the PB12-NSD has been shipping with a newer amp for the past several months, but I just want to verify that I get the new amp. :)

Thanks to anyone who can answer.

AnthemAVM

01-13-08, 11:38 AM

I just ordered the PB12-NSD. How would I go about making sure that my sub will have the newer amp? (Is there any way to tell just by looking at the amp?)

I've read that the PB12-NSD has been shipping with a newer amp for the past several months, but I just want to verify that I get the new amp. :)

Thanks to anyone who can answer.

Call or email the guys at SVS, they can tell you.

tonybradley

01-14-08, 10:01 AM

CrazyQuattro

01-14-08, 11:36 AM

Wow SVS has the best customer service i have ever had to deal with. I emailed them to ask a few questions and they gave me an honest answer, not one that would hurt my wallet.

Anyways, i found locally used Dual 20-39 CS with the Samson 1000amp for $800, good deal? SVS says yes...

MasterHoss

01-14-08, 02:28 PM

I asked the guys at SVS and they told me mine had the newer amp.

Thanks. I actually did shoot SVSound an e-mail and they quickly replied. At least for the PB12-NSD, all subs made May 2007 or later contain will ship with the new amp.

tonybradley

01-14-08, 02:39 PM

Thanks. I actually did shoot SVSound an e-mail and they quickly replied. At least for the PB12-NSD, all subs made May 2007 or later contain will ship with the new amp.

Do you have your PB12-NSD yet? If not, when are you expecting to receive it?

MasterHoss

01-14-08, 04:17 PM

Do you have your PB12-NSD yet? If not, when are you expecting to receive it?

I placed the order late Saturday night. Hopefully I'll receive the sub this week. It'll be running along side my existing subwoofer which came from an Onkyo HT-S780 HTiB (the subwoofer = Onkyo SKW-530)

The 7.1 speakers from the HTiB are now connected to a new Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver. I plan on splitting the sub pre-out on the receiver to allow me to run both the Onkyo SKW-530 sub along with the new SVS PB12-NSD.

I e-mailed SVS for any general suggestions on setting up a room with 2 subwoofers (where the subs are completely different in performance). If anyone here has any suggestions, please share. :)

tonybradley

01-14-08, 09:01 PM

lalakersfan34

01-14-08, 09:29 PM

I placed the order late Saturday night. Hopefully I'll receive the sub this week. It'll be running along side my existing subwoofer which came from an Onkyo HT-S780 HTiB (the subwoofer = Onkyo SKW-530)

The 7.1 speakers from the HTiB are now connected to a new Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver. I plan on splitting the sub pre-out on the receiver to allow me to run both the Onkyo SKW-530 sub along with the new SVS PB12-NSD.

I e-mailed SVS for any general suggestions on setting up a room with 2 subwoofers (where the subs are completely different in performance). If anyone here has any suggestions, please share. :)

I don't know that I'd put the Onkyo sub with the PB12. It won't be nearly as linear and might actually detract from the SVS's sound quality. Of course, feel free to try it and see :). I was running an Infinity PS212 with a PB10-NSD and even then, the SQ was definitely different than the dual PB10-NSD setup I have now...and the Infinity PS212 is a lot better than the Onkyo sub. Still, I guess it's worth trying it. It's just that the PB12-NSD has such better extension, output, linearity...everything...that I doubt you'll even get much of anything from the Onkyo. I'm curious to know what SVS tells you, though.

MasterHoss

01-15-08, 09:43 AM

I don't know that I'd put the Onkyo sub with the PB12. It won't be nearly as linear and might actually detract from the SVS's sound quality. Of course, feel free to try it and see :). I was running an Infinity PS212 with a PB10-NSD and even then, the SQ was definitely different than the dual PB10-NSD setup I have now...and the Infinity PS212 is a lot better than the Onkyo sub. Still, I guess it's worth trying it. It's just that the PB12-NSD has such better extension, output, linearity...everything...that I doubt you'll even get much of anything from the Onkyo. I'm curious to know what SVS tells you, though.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Your suggestions mirror what Ed at SV Sound told me. He recommended that I let the Onkyo sub rest in peace.

I also received my tracking number. It looks like my lucky day is Thursday.

thrand1

01-15-08, 10:41 AM

Some new questions for you guys if you'll entertain them...

Currently considering the comparison between PB12-Plus, PB12-Plus/2, and the PB13-Ultra.

Looking to get a sub that can match Focal 807V bookshelves on speed for music while retaining some great low extension for movie watching. At this point, my budget for sub will match the mains ($1200).

I know the PB13-Ultra would stand as the be-all end-all of subs for my setup, but the extra $500 that I would be spending on a subwoofer over my main speakers doesn't sit well with me right now unless there is some information I was missing before. So, my questions...

1) Do you think there is a big difference in the musical nature/response of the woofers in the Plus or Plus/2 versus the Ultra? I ask this due to curiosity about the "age" of the woofers/if there was significant development in the Ultra woofer to aid speed/flexibility with music.
2) What benefit does the Plus/2 provide over the PB12-Plus? I know there would be a gain on SPL at lower frequencies (can anyone provide a dB figure, like how much louder at 16Hz, etc), but what about music? Would a dual woofer setup possibly be "slower" on music than a single woofer like in the basic Plus model? Sure, the extra output at low frequencies would be great, but not at the expense of response and speed for faster music passages.

Basically, does the PB13-Ultra provide SIGNIFICANT advantages over the PB12-Plus and +/2 models when it comes to music response and relative speed of the woofer? I know the gains it provides on low frequency response - having that 10Hz output would just be ungodly!- but I just can't really see spending more on a sub than my main speakers unless there was something that warranted it.

Any thoughts?

ribbit

01-15-08, 10:43 AM

if you go to www.avtalk.co.uk and www.hometheatershack.com , you'll see that the ultra measured spectacularly in terms of linearity and THD ... I don't know about "speed", but it's like a generation forward in terms of SQ improvement compared to the plus models. :D just wanted you to spend some more money.

carry on. :cool:

and you're in Ohio too ... why don't you go to SVS and have a listen. bring cash and a big car and save on shipping.

Ron Temple

01-15-08, 02:09 PM

thrand1, there are lots of comments from those that upgraded out of Plus, dual Pluses, /2s and U12s to the Ultra. I've only seen one comment vs 100s where the U13 isn't considered on another level for musical performance. Arguably, duals and /2s will match or slightly exceed SPL in some frequencies in native tune than a single U13. HT performance is simply stunning with this config, but if you're a music first guy, then save your pennies.

jayrader

01-15-08, 02:24 PM

Thrand, if this helps any. I just went from one PB12 Plus to two. One reason I went with duals instead of a Plus2 is the plus is a bit more efficient and is tuned lower natively (20Hz). Now, if I didn't have a sub at all I probably would have put the money towards a 13, but I already had a PB12 Plus I loved. I must say the effect of 2 PB12 Plusses is AWESOME.

atkinc00

01-15-08, 03:20 PM

The guys at SVS are top notch. Here is my experience:

On 12/24/07 my family and I were watching Polar Express on HD-DVD. I remember the first scene when the train is coming creates ALOT of low end. To my dismay I wasn't hearing it. After messing with my connections I decided I had an issue with my PB12 (my PB12 is a little over a year old). I e-mailed SVS tech support Xmas day letting them know I had an issue. I got a response on 12/26 @ 2AM (about 8 hours later) with instructions on troubleshooting whether or not the issue was amp or woofer. After following the instructions the conclusion was the amp was dead. I received further instructions on how to cross ship the amp (basically buying a new amp which I'd get credited once they received my bad one). I did this so I'd be back in business ASAP (they also offered for me to send the amp then once received they'd send a new one so I wouldn't be out of pocked any money). I guess my only complaint (being a cheap a$$) is that they don't pay for shipping (unless your in the 45 day warranty period)which wasn't bad for the amp [these BASH amps are super light], but my guess is the woofer would have cost me a lot more. Anyhow, I received the new amp and followed the install procedure that they sent (the amp was different not sure if it's the new one or what), done back in business!

All in all the experience was extremely painless. I was really afraid I'd have to box this giant thing up (already had tossed the original box). I'm glad they let the customer replace the components! A big thanks to Ed Mullens at SVS who helped me through the process!

-Chris-

thrand1

01-16-08, 11:26 AM

just wanted you to spend some more money.

carry on. :cool:

and you're in Ohio too ... why don't you go to SVS and have a listen. bring cash and a big car and save on shipping.

Aw crap you guys, why do you do this to me :mad: I don't even know if the largest car I have access to would be able to fit the box that beast is contained in...mercy. That car will be riding about 3 inches lower during the drive back, that's for sure.

Thanks anyway for your feedback!

Ron Temple

01-16-08, 02:13 PM

Aw crap you guys, why do you do this to me :mad: I don't even know if the largest car I have access to would be able to fit the box that beast is contained in...mercy. That car will be riding about 3 inches lower during the drive back, that's for sure.

Thanks anyway for your feedback!The only vehicle the Ultra will fit in packed is a pickup or high cube SUV.

jayrader

01-16-08, 02:31 PM

Ron Temple

01-16-08, 02:40 PM

Guys,

I have dual PB12 Plusses. This setup is awesome and I'm really amazed at the difference adding another sub has made. I was looking through some of the lists in the "DVD's with BASS" thread, and in many of them I notice there is strong bass below 20Hz. I currently have both of these subs tuned to 20, but it makes me wonder what I am missing below there.

I could tune them both to 16 or 12, but I love the headroom I have right now. Would I gain much more than I'd lose? Do many DVDs really hit hard below 20? Or should I wait until I can afford some PB13s in a few years to worry about bass below 20Hz.It's room dependent, but many feel that the 16hz tune will get you a flatter response. You'll get a couple of hz lower extention, probably down to 13-14hz with the expense of a couple of dbs above 30hz. Personally, I preferred the 20hz tune for the added dynamics, but try it and see how it sounds to you. You have the headroom. Unless you have a small space, I'd avoid 12hz, even with duals.

Big Bri

01-16-08, 09:05 PM

robbroy

01-16-08, 09:19 PM

Hey fellow SVS lovers!

Glad to see my thread is still truckin.

Had to share a smiling moment from the other day. I was watching the T-Rex scene from JP and had a picture drop off the wall and break. My wife was pissed, but I got a definate feeling of satisfaction.

Am I sick?

I would say it depends on the picture.

AnthemAVM

01-16-08, 11:07 PM

cschang

01-16-08, 11:20 PM

With my 2 PB13U, with War of the World, took one picture down, one exterior light cover, and 2 light bulbs burnt out.

I was a witness to all of it. It was cool! :)

khewa

01-18-08, 11:37 AM

I posted this on another thread, but it is not getting a response I want.
So I'm posting it here:
A downfiring sub would require a more powerful amp and possibly a more well braced enclosure (compared to a front firing sub), since the enclosure and the amp has to push the same amount of air in the small space between the cone and the floor than it does to just push it out into the room.
In that case, a downfiring sub would be more more complex to manufacture and thus the price would increase as well.
So why should a manufacturer choose to manufacture a complex design instead of a simpler one ? everyone here says there is no audible difference between the down firing sub and a front firing sub.
I feel I'm missing out on something here, I'm sure those manufacturers have a good reason. SVS has both down firing subs and front firing subs. I am wondering what is their rational in offering both designs ?

upgradeitas

01-18-08, 02:06 PM

With my 2 PB13U, with War of the World, took one picture down, one exterior light cover, and 2 light bulbs burnt out.

We are all sick!

I love it when my ultra/2 breaks light bulbs :D!!!!!! I have never knocked the exterior light fixture off.... hmmm maybe it is time to upgrade.
Bradley

tonybradley

01-21-08, 10:46 AM

I recently purchased the PB12-NSD that incorporates the new amp. I was finally able to sit down and really mess with it this weekend and calibrate it. I found a spot that sounds really good (at least to me, in my room). When I have some time, I'm going to read on the REW software so I can analyze my room and determine how bad it is.

I had an older Infinity BU-120 Sub. When I ran the Frequency Sweep on it, you couldn't hear or feel anything below 35Hz. Now, with the PB12, performing the Frequency Sweep, I can hear/feel the sub at 15Hz. Amazing. I put in the scene from Monsters Inc where they detonate the contaminated Sock. WOW. When that exploded, it was the tightest bass I've heard. I could feel the air blowing on me from that explosion. No more boominess that I had with my old sub. Sad thing is, I paid almost as much for that sub as I did the SVS.

pdadi

01-21-08, 11:28 AM

davidcrowe

01-24-08, 07:35 AM

After hooking up a second pb12plus/2, Transformers vibrated a night light off one of the boys nightstands...on the second floor.

getech

01-24-08, 12:00 PM

[QUOTE=davidcrowe;12915494]After hooking up a second pb12plus/2, Transformers vibrated a n

Yes, and?

Htownmalu

01-24-08, 01:35 PM

just purchased the scs-01 speaker package, what speaker stands are you guys using?

ggunnell

01-24-08, 02:52 PM

Not an owner but as far as I know there's no problem using the SVS SBS speaker stands for the SCS as shown on the SVS site.

If you're just browsing this site has lots of stands:
http://www.standsandmounts.com/

davidcrowe

01-24-08, 04:23 PM

and that was the end of my attempt to stealth the second sub into the house, so I now have to agree with everyone else who has previously said that they are just too big to slip into the house unnoticed...

imromo24

01-25-08, 02:59 PM

I would like to thank Ed and SVS for outstanding customer service in the quick response to reviewing my layout and providing the optimum dual sub configuration. I rearanged my setup per his advice and I am very pleased with the result.

ShagMan

01-28-08, 12:05 PM

I picked up a used plus/2 (the 2x12.3" plus model)... WOWSAH, what a sub! Many thanks to SVS for providing such a killer sub at a very reasonable price!

mystikjoe

01-30-08, 05:57 PM

building a theater room from scratch it will consist of the following:
paradigm studio 100's
paradigm cc-690
paradigm adp-470x4
svs pc ultrax2

i'm doing a 7.1 setup and trying to figure out where to place the two subs. after doing some research i was thinking about putting them in the center of the room to the left and right of the theater chairs. i have a 140" screen with a panasonic ae2000 projector. the center will sit on a stand and the rears in the rear and the sides above the subs. how does this sound? it's an empty basement so i can build the room however it needs to be. thanks for your help!

Plex

02-01-08, 04:31 PM

Does anyone know if SVS will be offering a newer verision of thier 12.3 sub any time soon. I bought a used 20-39+ I think I have a 12.1 or 12.2 woofer (unit is 2.5 years old), i would like to get the most updated replacement possible. If I would go for the current 12.3 would i notice a sonic improvement or would the changes be more along the lines of just better bulit woofer?

Ron Temple

02-01-08, 05:56 PM

The 12.3 is a bit of an upgrade from the 12.2...you'll get a slightly better FR and it's 2-3 dbs more efficient. It's noticeable out the gate. Rather than upgrade the sub, just order the driver.

No knowledge about a new driver rev. The 12.3 is about 1.5 years old and I doubt if they will have something new soon...but, you never know.

BellyRat

02-01-08, 10:07 PM

Hey Guys,

I just Pulled the trigger on the 20-29 PC plus! :D

Here's my story...

About 2 months ago I was over a friends house. His oldest child finally moved out so all of a sudden he had an extra room! Wanting a "man cave" he ran out and bought himself a projector. He found some 10 year old thing on craigslist for $200. The guy that sold it to him said "I paid over 7 grand for that puppy 10 years ago" so of course he bragged to me..."this thing is $7000 brand new...I stole it off of craigslist for 200 bucks!" :rolleyes: He ran to Best Buy and bought himself a real nice $200 HTIB. He hung a sheet on the wall, nailed up his $200 speakers, dragged in a couple of old warn out recliners and fired that baby up! He couldn't wait to show off his new "home theater"! Now as sorry as this sounds, I got to tell you, I was hooked! We drank beer and watched movies all night in his state-of-the-art home theater...we had a blast and I thought it was pretty cool! Needless to say, I went home that night with grandiose Ideas.

The next morning, at the breakfast table, I told my wife exactly what I was going to do..."um..hun, what do you think about a home theater?" To my suprise, she thought it was a good idea! Of course her only concern was money. I told her "look...if I'm going to do this thing I'm going to do it right"...best projector, great sound system, fancy room with a stage and raised seating, sconce lighting, sound proof walls....the works! Again, her response...."how much?!" "oh...I don't know hun I'm thinking I can do this think for about 3 to 5 grand";)

Ok, fast forward 2 months...80 hours of reading forums, 3 weekends of construction (see attached photo) and about a quarter of the equipment I need and I am already over 3 grand! :eek: oh well...what are you going to do...its only money!

So here's my plans for sound:

AVR: Onkyo 605 (bought)
Front L & R: Polk RTi10's (bought)
Center: Polk CSi5 (bought)
Rears: 4 Polk RC85i's (7.1) (need to buy)
Sub:SVS 20-39 PC Plus (bought) :D

Any Thoughts? I guess I am wondering if this is going to be enough sub?

BTW, my room is 15 X 21 with a 9 foot dormer style ceiling, one window (covered by the screen) and 1 door. I will be covering the screen wall and the 54" knee walls with Owen Corning 1 1/2 duct liner (bought).

I'm hoping 1 PC plus will be enough (never in a million years thought I would spend 900 bucks on one speaker) but I guess if it ain't I can always buy another down the road.

Thanks

ransac

02-01-08, 10:19 PM

I was going to suggest you look at the PC in your other thread, but you seemed so set on the PBs. I can't really tell the ceiling heights in the speaker corners, but the 20-39 is shorter than your RTi10s. Most likely the PC will go outside the main. Seems to me most people preferred the sound when the sub was inside the main instead of outside. You will have to experiment.

I had a 20-39 in my >8000cf room. It was placed near field, 5-6' from LP, and it was terrific. It just couldn't handle the shear size of the room at the volumes I listen to movies. I upgraded to a +/2. My biggest concern about just one 20-39 is the distance between the sub and your LP (12+'). I think you better count on a second. But you can wait and see.

BellyRat

02-01-08, 10:58 PM

I was going to suggest you look at the PC in your other thread, but you seemed so set on the PBs.

Thanks for the reply Randy, Yeah I kinda misspoke in my other post. I said please don't suggest another "model". What I ment to say was "make". Kinda set on the SVS. Mainly because I was/am worn out on all of the suggestions...Epik, HSU, eD, Outlaw, SVS...etc, etc. I can't listen to any of them! So, I just had to pick one and go with it. I chose SVS because they were in my price range, their reported customer service and the fact that you don't have to wait.

Again, Thanks...I'm sure I will eventually want another 20-39 (but I'm trying to convince myself one will be enough ;)

ransac

02-01-08, 11:03 PM

Thanks for the reply Randy, Yeah I kinda misspoke in my other post. I said please don't suggest another "model". What I ment to say was "make". Kinda set on the SVS. Mainly because I was/am worn out on all of the suggestions...Epik, HSU, eD, Outlaw, SVS...etc, etc. I can't listen to any of them! So, I just had to pick one and go with it. I chose SVS because they were in my price range, their reported customer service and the fact that you don't have to wait.

Again, Thanks...I'm sure I will eventually want another 20-39 (but I'm trying to convince myself one will be enough ;)That's one of the perks of dual subs. You can try with just one and add a second later after you recovered from construction costs.

wuzzzer

02-01-08, 11:54 PM

I currently have a PC-Plus 16-46. What would I experience as far as bass output is concerned if I went with a PB12-Plus/2?

ransac

02-02-08, 12:01 AM

I currently have a PC-Plus 16-46. What would I experience as far as bass output is concerned if I went with a PB12-Plus/2?What tuning and volume do you run your sub?

wuzzzer

02-02-08, 12:56 AM

Bailman

02-02-08, 07:53 AM

ransac

02-02-08, 10:04 PM

I have the upper end crossed over at 80Hz and the lower end knob at 16Hz. The gain is set at the 11 o'clock position, or whatever the notch to the left of the 12 o'clock position is considered.
My speakers are Klipsch Forte II which are 99dB sensitive so the SVS has to be able to keep up with them.So you have all ports open. You would have to plug two of them on the +/2 for 16Hz tuning. If you are using your AVR for bass management, you should disable the crossover on the SVS. If the Crossover on your AVR is set to 80, you have stacked low pass filters which may make a hole in your FR. If your AVR crossover is set higher than 80, you will definitely have a hole.

SirDrexl

02-02-08, 11:40 PM

lalakersfan34

02-03-08, 12:21 AM

Can anyone help me figure out the dimensions of the shipping carton for the PB-10 and PB-12? Maybe upload or link to a picture of the sub in the carton, or just list the measurements. I'm asking because I have to get this up stairs, and I'm trying to decide if the PB-12 would just be too big and heavy.

If I were taking the PB12 upstairs, I'd take it out of the box first. It's around 70-75 pounds I think, which really isn't all that bad. I have two PB10's and had to have them shipped to a UPS store because nobody would be home to sign for them. They're actually much easier to lift and carry once they're out of the boxes. The PB12 is a good deal larger and maybe more awkward, but it isn't a whole lot heavier. If you have someone help you, it shouldn't be much of a problem at all, and I think you'll be ok doing it yourself, too. The boxes are far larger than the subs themselves. The subs are double-boxed with large foam corners. Again, I think they're far easier to manage out of the box...just my opinion.

SirDrexl

02-03-08, 01:00 AM

If I were taking the PB12 upstairs, I'd take it out of the box first. It's around 70-75 pounds I think, which really isn't all that bad. I have two PB10's and had to have them shipped to a UPS store because nobody would be home to sign for them. They're actually much easier to lift and carry once they're out of the boxes. The PB12 is a good deal larger and maybe more awkward, but it isn't a whole lot heavier. If you have someone help you, it shouldn't be much of a problem at all, and I think you'll be ok doing it yourself, too. The boxes are far larger than the subs themselves. The subs are double-boxed with large foam corners. Again, I think they're far easier to manage out of the box...just my opinion.

Thanks, I remember years ago my brother and I had to move a CRT TV upstairs, and it was an ordeal to move when it was in its bigger box. When it was taken out of the box it was easier to deal with.

Is it wrapped in plastic under the foam? I'd like to have something to protect it from getting scratched while moving.

lalakersfan34

02-03-08, 01:34 AM

Thanks, I remember years ago my brother and I had to move a CRT TV upstairs, and it was an ordeal to move when it was in its bigger box. When it was taken out of the box it was easier to deal with.

Is it wrapped in plastic under the foam? I'd like to have something to protect it from getting scratched while moving.

Yes, it's in a plastic bag/sleeve, with foam corners in the box, and double-boxed over that. You could carry it with it still in the sleeve if you want. I wouldn't worry about it too much, though. The PB10-NSD and PB12-NSD have a black finish that's pretty durable. It can scratch, but I don't think it would just by lifting it and taking it upstairs. BTW, the PB12-NSD is supposed to be an awesome sub for the price. I have two PB10's stacked in my 900 cubic foot room, because the footprint of the PB12 was too big, but for the money, the PB12 is quite a performer (it's better "bang for the buck" compared to the PB10)! I think you'll be very happy with it.

briankmonkey

02-03-08, 01:50 AM

Any way to still get the PB12-Plus in the Cherry Finish? If so, how much?

robbroy

02-03-08, 11:20 AM

Any way to still get the PB12-Plus in the Cherry Finish? If so, how much?

Do you mean the rosenut?

http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/pb12plus/front_rose_lg.jpg

-Robb

briankmonkey

02-03-08, 11:32 AM

Do you mean the rosenut?

http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/pb12plus/front_rose_lg.jpg

-Robb

They had Cherry listed a while back. I'm not sure if it is an exact match but my Energy RC-30's and RC-10's are Cherry.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/imgcache/8583.imgcache

robbroy

02-03-08, 11:47 AM

I think you'd have to look on the used market for the cherry.

-Robb

briankmonkey

02-03-08, 12:17 PM

I think you'd have to look on the used market for the cherry.

-Robb

Figured as much but thought I'd try here. Thanks. May just go with Piano black, that is pretty sweet looking as well. Heck even the rosenut would still go well.

Plex

02-04-08, 10:40 AM

Do you mean the rosenut?

http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/pb12plus/front_rose_lg.jpg

-Robb

Dam! that rose-nut looks soooo nice, i wish it was an option for the cylinder subs,the wife might even let me move it out from behind the TV.

jvgillow

02-04-08, 10:44 AM

If SVS brings back the SS model then Rosenut will likely be a finish choice on a cylinder :)

FyreFlux

02-09-08, 10:44 AM

i hear talk about a "new" version of the PB12-NSD, does anybody know what the actual differences are between this and the original one? how can you tell if you get the new model or the older one?

soNburst

02-14-08, 02:02 PM

pdadi

02-14-08, 02:10 PM

i hear talk about a "new" version of the PB12-NSD, does anybody know what the actual differences are between this and the original one? how can you tell if you get the new model or the older one?

SVS has been shipping with new amp for the past few months. Contact SVS if you have any concerns.

bykes

02-14-08, 08:23 PM

Damnit!! I got my tax return today ready to spend it on a new SVS SB12 Plus Piano Black. They are on back order till next month.................!

allredp

02-15-08, 09:50 AM

anyone have an opinion on infinity's vs svs center speakers? i'm trying to put together 5.1 and i have the pb10-nsd and av123 x-sls fronts. trying to match up some surrounds and a center. i really need surrounds where the back of the speakers don't look crappy as 1 will be facing the front door. av123 speakers are just too big. looking at the infinity tss500 surrounds. dunno if should go with infinity for the center as well or not. thanks.

I can't speak for the Infinity (it has been years since I had a critical listen), however, I can tell you that I've been listening hard to the SVS SCS.01 as L/R in my setup for a couple weeks and I'm very, very happy with them. I've been burning them in ;^) for a buddy whose room isn't complete yet.

Can't tell you how many people I've demo'd these for who have been shocked at the price. My own wife, who has been spoiled by a great pair of Dahlquists in our usual outfit was amazed and actually said that she thought they compared favorably!

So, all I can say is that these little SVS are very impressive and I can't imagine you wouldn't love one as a center, unless the timbre, looks, or budget don't fit your needs...

Good luck!

bullet111

02-15-08, 12:02 PM

ManicMiner

02-15-08, 02:00 PM

The SCS is a very good speaker. I've several times had people over to listen to my SVS subs, and even tough many of them have owned speakers costing up to 20x the price of the SCS' many of them have been amazed by the performance of the speakers and almost forgot to listen to the subs ; )

imromo24

02-16-08, 07:57 AM

I've got a PB12/plus2 and the Klipsch RF3II speaker system. The specs for the RF3II's say they go down to 37hz. I've currently got the crossover on my Denon 3803 set at 80 and all speakers set as "small". Should I go lower with the crossover?

Common knowledge around here says no. However, I have a large basement and I have tested different frequencies and settings. At one time when I only had one sub I set the front to large and 50hz, which gave me the impact I needed. Now i have dual subs and it sounds better at 80hz (I still have them large which is unconventional around here, but I think the large setting gives a better sound (IMO). I recommend trying different settings and going with what sounds good to you. I even listened for weeks with the XO at 100hz (sounded good, but ended up "too bassy" too much)

thepmac

02-16-08, 12:41 PM

As mentioned in another forum.
I am now the proud owner of an SVS 20-39 PC-Plus Sub!
Far more than I needed, however, I am future proofed if I ever move.
I unfortunately have some learning to do for setting my HT up properly, because on the graph on my receiver, I seem to have a dip in FR at a certain point. But it is better than it was :)
Thanks for all the reading you have all provided in the past. I think the biggest reason for my choice between SVS, eD and AV123 was the wait factor. It made my choice much easier, and SVS has a Canadian distro, so I was able to pick it up, it is only 30-45 minutes from me. Good guys very patient.
WAF is good too she likes the tube look :)
Regards.
P.S. When I get a camera one day (we recently broke ours of 4 years) I will post a pic of the setup.

wuzzzer

02-16-08, 01:40 PM

As mentioned in another forum.
I am now the proud owner of an SVS 20-39 PC-Plus Sub!

Nice choice! I've owned my 16-46 for a little over a year now. Do yourself a favor and spend a lot of time setting it up and trying the sub in different places in your room. I had mine in pretty much the same place for several months and just the other day I moved it and the bass output seems like it doubled in my listening position!

Plex

02-17-08, 02:23 AM