Need a litter help or a better way to get some attention. I have sent 3 emails to SVS sales trying to buy plugs for my 20-39+ since December and did not get a reply. Ron emailed back after i registered my sub and he told me to contact sales and a set of plugs would be sent to me free but i would just have to pay for shipping. I'll pay for everything if someone would just return my mailings it can't cost that much. I hear about great service from others but i haven't seen that yet on my end.

Need a litter help or a better way to get some attention. I have sent 3 emails to SVS sales trying to buy plugs for my 20-39+ since December and did not get a reply. Ron emailed back after i registered my sub and he told me to contact sales and a set of plugs would be sent to me free but i would just have to pay for shipping. I'll pay for everything if someone would just return my mailings it can't cost that much. I hear about great service from others but i haven't seen that yet on my end.Call them toll free at (877)-626-5623.

Need a litter help or a better way to get some attention. I have sent 3 emails to SVS sales trying to buy plugs for my 20-39+ since December and did not get a reply. Ron emailed back after i registered my sub and he told me to contact sales and a set of plugs would be sent to me free but i would just have to pay for shipping. I'll pay for everything if someone would just return my mailings it can't cost that much. I hear about great service from others but i haven't seen that yet on my end.

Is your IP filtering out emails from them for some reason? I usually have received a reply to my emails to SVS within way less than 24 hours.

Need a litter help or a better way to get some attention. I have sent 3 emails to SVS sales trying to buy plugs for my 20-39+ since December and did not get a reply. Ron emailed back after i registered my sub and he told me to contact sales and a set of plugs would be sent to me free but i would just have to pay for shipping. I'll pay for everything if someone would just return my mailings it can't cost that much. I hear about great service from others but i haven't seen that yet on my end.

Hi Plex:

If you don't get a reply from sales@svsound.com or techsupport@svsound.com within 24 hours (usually much sooner), your notes are probably getting lost in cyberspace.

We do check our junk/spam filters every day, but there are some cases (verified on both ends via telephone conversation) where a customer's note simply never reaches us, and neither party receives a reject or 'failure to deliver' message.

In cases like that, calling our sales line is indeed the best option. M-F 10AM-6PM EST.

Hi Plex:

If you don't get a reply from sales@svsound.com or techsupport@svsound.com within 24 hours (usually much sooner), your notes are probably getting lost in cyberspace.

We do check our junk/spam filters every day, but there are some cases (verified on both ends via telephone conversation) where a customer's note simply never reaches us, and neither party receives a reject or 'failure to deliver' message.

In cases like that, calling our sales line is indeed the best option. M-F 10AM-6PM EST.

Thanks Ed and everyone else, i'll just call and by pass the email, there may be issues with work and home emails getting through.
I must add this 20-39+ really does turn heads when my friends come over, i've had two friends get the same sub and another go for that boxy type, i'll never get anything but SVS sub, keep up the great work.

Thanks Ed and everyone else, i'll just call and by pass the email, there may be issues with work and home emails getting through.
I must add this 20-39+ really does turn heads when my friends come over, i've had two friends get the same sub and another go for that boxy type, i'll never get anything but SVS sub, keep up the great work.


Thanks, Plex. Yep - the cylinder models never fail as conversation starters. :)

I'm thinking about buying a used PB12+2 textured black version and the seller informed me it has 12.2 drivers instead of 12.3. What is the difference in performance? Price seems reasonable at just under $800.

First choice is a premium wood finish but would be another $500-600 from SVS after shipping and taxes

hi, I have a 3-4 yr old PC Ultra which has been in storage for the last year (moving, etc.). I want to hook it up this weekend but of course the owner's manual is still packed away someplace else. Last time it was used, I had it connected to receiver with a a single interconnect cable to the sub. Which connection do I use on the back of the sub? I know I should remember this but I am drawing a blank. Thanks for any help!

hi, I have a 3-4 yr old PC Ultra which has been in storage for the last year (moving, etc.). I want to hook it up this weekend but of course the owner's manual is still packed away someplace else. Last time it was used, I had it connected to receiver with a a single interconnect cable to the sub. Which connection do I use on the back of the sub? I know I should remember this but I am drawing a blank. Thanks for any help!

Just go to SVS's site and you can download the manual. The model may have changed (?) but enough of the info should still be valid.

Just go to SVS's site and you can download the manual. The model may have changed (?) but enough of the info should still be valid.
Thanks, I tried that and missed the link. With your suggestion I went back and was able to locate it. Thanks!

Just pulled the trigger on a discounted pb12+/2 from svs. Ive wanted this sub for years but something always got in the way. Last year around this time I got a pioneer plasma. The sub I have now was bought as a demo model around 1995. The Def Tech pf 15 has served me well. With 4 kids and the boob tube on 12 hours a day it is no small feat. This will be a long week as i wait. I told wifey it was big but she has no idea lol. As i have sait before
"there in no w.a.f. in my house, if she dont like it ,she can live with her mother"

Just pulled the trigger on a discounted pb12+/2 from svs. Ive wanted this sub for years but something always got in the way. Last year around this time I got a pioneer plasma. The sub I have now was bought as a demo model around 1995. The Def Tech pf 15 has served me well. With 4 kids and the boob tube on 12 hours a day it is no small feat. This will be a long week as i wait. I told wifey it was big but she has no idea lol. As i have sait before
"there in no w.a.f. in my house, if she dont like it ,she can live with her mother"

Enjoy the +/2! I loved mine and everyone who heard it raved.

First post in this thread. I have had a 20-39 PCi for about 3 years now. I recently upgraded to an Onkyo 705 and noticed the driver was bottoming badly when playing the Pink Floyd Pulse DVD during the Learning to Fly track. I called SVS and was told that my driver should be changed. Since I was no longer under warranty, I had to buy the new driver, which is better than the original driver for this sub anyway, I was told.

In any case, things are better now but I can still get the driver to bottom quite easily (with the volume setting on the Onkyo at -5). This is loud but not LOUD.

The volume knob on the sub is at about the 10 O'clock position.

Audyssey set the sub trim to -6dB, which I have not changed.

Any thoughts appreciated.

My thoughts are that the 20-39 PCi can't play close to reference levels unless it's in a tiny room right next to your seat. Even then, that's pretty close. I don't know what -5 means volume wise in your room with your settings, but it sounds like it's probably pretty close to reference level.

I think you need to get either a second sub or a different sub entirely. How big is your room (cubic feet)? If you have an SPL meter, tell us what kind of peak SPL's you're getting at your listening position. If you haven't already, you should calibrate your system with receiver test tones, or more ideally, Avia or DVE to make sure you aren't running the sub really hot. Many people run their subs hot and don't even realize it.

At the moment, my suggestion would be that if you like the 20-39 PCi, try to get another at some point. The headroom and smoother frequency response achieved through dual subs has to be heard to be believed. I went from one SVS PB10-NSD to two, and I couldn't believe the difference. I'd also recommend talking to SVS more in-depth about your situation to see what they recommend.

Had it for five days now. Lovin' it. :D:cool::):o

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/GregK500/IMG_0634.jpg

Boy, you'd think they'd get tired of drinking OJ by now. ;)

Glad you're lovin' it.


Tim

yes they really do seem to be enjoying the oj.

My thoughts are that the 20-39 PCi can't play close to reference levels unless it's in a tiny room right next to your seat.

I think you need to get either a second sub or a different sub entirely. How big is your room (cubic feet)?

At the moment, my suggestion would be that if you like the 20-39 PCi, try to get another at some point. The headroom and smoother frequency response achieved through dual subs has to be heard to be believed. I went from one SVS PB10-NSD to two, and I couldn't believe the difference. I'd also recommend talking to SVS more in-depth about your situation to see what they recommend.


yes, room size is definately the likely culprit. I bottomed out my PC39 plus a few times before I read that I'm trying to fill a 7700cuft. room and that is near impossible for any single sub. It sounded great, but didn't have the chest thumping I desired.

Now with dual subs and several location configuration changes later it sounds incredible. I had to work really hard to find the right location, and I think I finally have it. (mind you one was plenty for the average human...but not a sub-human :D )

edit: Now that I read it again, I see you had it for 3 years, no trouble the first 3 years? Even in my small room, there is one scene in star wars that bottomed out the sub, could just be that track with the combination of volume giving you the problem. The new reciever may be sending a higher powered signal than your previous reciever.

edit: Now that I read it again, I see you had it for 3 years, no trouble the first 3 years? Even in my small room, there is one scene in star wars that bottomed out the sub, could just be that track with the combination of volume giving you the problem. The new reciever may be sending a higher powered signal than your previous reciever.

Yes, no hint of trouble before, although my room is 20x20; therefore I too am thinking that it is the new receiver. Now that I think about it, I wonder if Audyssey may be boosting some frequencies; I should try it with Audyssey off.

BTW, any opinion about the bass content of the track that is causing me trouble (Pulse, Learning to Fly)?

Pulse is probably the toughest movie bass track ever. It was explored in depth, theorized, and plausibly explained a month or two ago on this forum. Try a search for the thread.

Pulse is probably the toughest movie bass track ever. It was explored in depth, theorized, and plausibly explained a month or two ago on this forum. Try a search for the thread.

I think he's talking about a band vs. the movie...

Aha! Pink Floyd. There is some tough bass there too, but not like that friggin' movie.

Yes, no hint of trouble before, although my room is 20x20; therefore I too am thinking that it is the new receiver. Now that I think about it, I wonder if Audyssey may be boosting some frequencies; I should try it with Audyssey off.

BTW, any opinion about the bass content of the track that is causing me trouble (Pulse, Learning to Fly)?

I'm interested in the Audyssey off experiment. I too have the 705, as a holdover BTW, and have not incorporated the Audyssey program...waiting for a Mic mount as suggested to obtain good results. Post your findings ASAP.

I don't think Audyssey actually equalizes the sub, because it looks like the EQ settings are for each speaker but not the sub. It will affect the actual sub level though. You could try using a level meter to attempt to determine the approximate point it is getting set at, by comparing the sub's test tone output with Audyssey applied against different levels set manually.

"Sorrow" is the track with the most sustained LFE on the Pulse concert.

I'm interested in the Audyssey off experiment. I too have the 705, as a holdover BTW, and have not incorporated the Audyssey program...waiting for a Mic mount as suggested to obtain good results. Post your findings ASAP.

Yes, that was it. With Audyssey off, I had to go to the +1 volume setting on the Onkyo before the bottoming started (the receiver levels are calibrated to 75dB, i.e., reference level, at the main listening position, 12 feet away, when showing zero on the volume scale) with no problems. This is really loud for me, and a level I would never have gone to unless I was trying to push it as I did for this experiment.

I don't think Audyssey actually equalizes the sub, because it looks like the EQ settings are for each speaker but not the sub. It will affect the actual sub level though. You could try using a level meter to attempt to determine the approximate point it is getting set at, by comparing the sub's test tone output with Audyssey applied against different levels set manually.

Actually, the flavor of Audyssey the 705 has (MultEQ XT) does equalize the sub using upto 64 filters for the sub alone.
http://www.audyssey.com/technology/multEQ_products.html
This was one of the selling points for me, over MCACC, for example.

"Sorrow" is the track with the most sustained LFE on the Pulse concert.

I just played Sorrow with Audyssey on, at the reference level; ear-ringing volume but no driver bottoming :):). The sustained bass on that track caused no issues. It is only the drum (tympani?) beat eleven seconds into "Learning to Fly" which is doing this to me.

Yes, that was it. With Audyssey off, I had to go to the +1 volume setting on the Onkyo before the bottoming started (the receiver levels are calibrated to 75dB, i.e., reference level, at the main listening position, 12 feet away, when showing zero on the volume scale) with no problems. This is really loud for me, and a level I would never have gone to unless I was trying to push it as I did for this experiment.

Thats great that you got to the bottom of the problem...is there a pun in this somewhere? I take it that you ran the Audy program again.

If I have a 12 ft wide by 20 ft deep basement theather room with 8 foot walls. Is a PC ultra sub overkill? Or should I get something like a PC Plus (16/46, or 20,39)?

You could easily get by with the Plus, but you would not have the same potential output as the Ultra, nor the SQ. For strictly HT, any of the Pluses, or in your room the NSDs, would be a good and enjoyable choice. The Ultra would be that much better.

Here is a huge shock, I haven't been on the forum for several months and the 1st subwofer thread I read I find myself in total agreement with Randy, as usual. A single plus in a 12X20x8 room will do a admirable job and will surely put a grin on your face. However, if you have the means...the ultra is so choice. I have a pb12+2 that I used to have a in a 16X32x9 open room and it was more than impressive--reaching 120db's in my seated position on some hot tracks. The ultra has that much output but will have a tad more depth and much better all around sound. In a room of that size--especially if it is closed off from the rest of the basement--it will be devastatingly wonderful. Again though for much less cash a single plus will have you grinning ear to ear in that room.

i hear talk about a "new" version of the PB12-NSD, does anybody know what the actual differences are between this and the original one? how can you tell if you get the new model or the older one?

I "think" they only changed the amp.

I asked about an amp swap (my PB12 was bought about a year ago).

I was told they won't do that. They will sell me the new amp -- but it cost over $200 (1/3 of the sub cost).

I guess I have to have my amp "break" before the year warranty is up -- to get the new amp?

If I have a 12 ft wide by 20 ft deep basement theather room with 8 foot walls. Is a PC ultra sub overkill? Or should I get something like a PC Plus (16/46, or 20,39)?

I think the PC Plus will work for you, but if you are a bass lover you might want to get the Ultra if you can afford it. My room is a bit smaller than your, but my sub is NOT optimally located and my PC Plus 20-39 has served me well for 4 years, but I am upgrading to an Ultra. With the Plus I do have to be careful on occasions to not let it bottom the sub, but I still can get chest pounding butt feeling lows with my Plus.

Here is a huge shock, I haven't been on the forum for several months and the 1st subwofer thread I read I find myself in total agreement with Randy, as usual. Brian, good to see you back with your usual verbosity.:) Even better that you still totally agree with my sage advise. Let this man's words be a lesson to all who read my posts.;)

I think the PC Plus will work for you, but if you are a bass lover you might want to get the Ultra if you can afford it. My room is a bit smaller than your, but my sub is NOT optimally located and my PC Plus 20-39 has served me well for 4 years, but I am upgrading to an Ultra. With the Plus I do have to be careful on occasions to not let it bottom the sub, but I still can get chest pounding butt feeling lows with my Plus.

I say he just grabs the Ultra. You'll get teh + now, and it'll be enough, but 2-3 yers and you be upgrading to the Ultra cause you wonder about the sound. The Ultra sound quality is so different from the other SVS subs. It's awesome.

I have a 16-46CS sub with the original non-ISD driver and am looking to upgrade. I am currently driving it with one channel of an old Kenwood stereo amp(100w max) so I have two issues to be addressed. One, the driver is two revisions old. I have the option to upgrade the driver to the NSD for $129. As for the amp, I have seen a 500w unit available for $90. With these upgrades, how do you feel it will compare to a PB12-NSD?

Thanks,
Mike

I have a 16-46CS sub with the original non-ISD driver and am looking to upgrade. I am currently driving it with one channel of an old Kenwood stereo amp(100w max) so I have two issues to be addressed. One, the driver is two revisions old. I have the option to upgrade the driver to the NSD for $129. As for the amp, I have seen a 500w unit available for $90. With these upgrades, how do you feel it will compare to a PB12-NSD?

Thanks,
Mike

That should have the potential to outperform the PB12-NSD because of deeper tuning and more power. You will need to be careful about overdriving or bottoming woofer.

OK, I will get the ultra. I might just wait a couple of months, just because.

With it being 90 pounds. is it recommended to have 2 people move it in? I can curl 123 pounds for 6 reps. I do shrugs with 360 pounds. But of course with the sub being bulky it makes it tougher. I guess if I leave it in the box, I could slide it down the stairs.

OK, I will get the ultra. I might just wait a couple of months, just because.

With it being 90 pounds. is it recommended to have 2 people move it in? I can curl 123 pounds for 6 reps. I do shrugs with 360 pounds. But of course with the sub being bulky it makes it tougher. I guess if I leave it in the box, I could slide it down the stairs.

I'm 170; 160 in shape. I moved a PB12-Ultra/2 and a PB13 Ultra into place on my own. I didn't have to negotiate more than a single stair, but if I can do that, sure you can move a PC13-Ultra. Just bend at the knees. :)

-Robb

OK, I will get the ultra. I might just wait a couple of months, just because.

With it being 90 pounds. is it recommended to have 2 people move it in? I can curl 123 pounds for 6 reps. I do shrugs with 360 pounds. But of course with the sub being bulky it makes it tougher. I guess if I leave it in the box, I could slide it down the stairs.Don't be a wuss...I manhandled a 150lb. PB13 by myself, the cylinders roll ;)...(and I'm too old to be doing any heavy lifting).

moved the ultra myself, down steps and although not weak Im not hercules either. I actually think it was easier to move with it out of the box??? but I left it in the box to take it down the stairs because the packaging is padded inside and can handle some bumps.

I just did a search on this thread and can't come up with anything. I own a PB12-NSD and have had great results with it using the typical digital connection.

I just got a Toshiba A35 HD-DVD in my hands for next to nothing. Part of the reason I got it was that I have an older AVR that doesn't have HDMI. A Yamaha RX-V1000 (2nd to top of the line in its day). I am going to use the analog connections so that I can "experience" the TrueHD sound.

I have owned this AVR for 8 yrs and thought I knew all there was to know about it. I hooked everything up to what I thought was the right way and I am getting a VERY, VERY week LF signal. I have tried several different connections to no avail. I ran the test tones with AVIA(which I did over a year ago with my SPL meter when I got my Sub). I ran them in the HD-DVD player (which is now doing the processing, hence the analog connections). And I ran test tones directly through the AVR. ALL with no solution.

I can barely hear the LF through my sub.

Is there something I'm missing. I don't think I could boost the signal through ALL of my devices enough to get even a low volume LF sound. (hypothetically speaking)

I'm Stumped!!!

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Rob

how about the channel level in the player?

how about the channel level in the player?

It's defaulted to 0dB (range is -12 to 0) Tried everything in between.

Are you playing through the stereo channel outs or the 8 discreet channels to the AVR's multi channel inputs ? If yes, have you set the multi channel inputs to 5.1?

Make sure all your speakers are set to Small in the A35. Crossover at 80, 100, or 120Hz depending on the best match for your speakers. Otherwise all you will get out of the subwoofer is the LFE signal.

If you haven't already, check out Ed Mullen's list of common subwoofer setup errors at http://www.robbroy.net/HT/SubwooferErrors.cfm. Go through the list carefully. I can't tell you how many times seen something simple like a subwoofer input being used instead of the output.

-Robb

If you haven't already, check out Ed Mullen's list of common subwoofer setup errors at http://www.robbroy.net/HT/SubwooferErrors.cfm. Go through the list carefully. I can't tell you how many times seen something simple like a subwoofer input being used instead of the output.

-Robb

Good point Robb. BUT, I've read those tips to adnauseum as well as conversed with Ed many, many times by email.

Last night I was beginning to think that my Subwoofer pre/out was maybe just too week to get a signal to the sub but that can't be the case, just as I previously stated, I have ZERO problems with the LFE when using toslink or coax. I just figured I'd take advantage of my A35s analog so that I could get the TrueHD and what not.

So either my older AVR is somehow not capable of delivering a strong enough signal without the help of the LFE information in digital format OR I am STILL missing something in my setup.

Thanks for all of the suggestions and I've re-re-tried all of them to make sure there isn't something that I have missed, but if anyone else has any more insight, please let me know.

I may have to address this over in the AVR forum and talk to Ed as well.

Thanks again.

I don't know about the Tosh, but some universals and my Sony BD player are about 10dbs down on the LFE channel via analog...it's a known bug. Some have put together firmware fixes...personally, I just bump the output signal to compensate for analog. I don't know for a fact that this is the case, but you might want to check it out on the A35 thread (I assume there is one).

Ok, you guys made me do it. Order put in for the ultra pc.

Hey guys, I am the proud owner of an svs 20-39 pci cylinder sub, but have some questions for ya. I have been trying to properly calibrate this thing for a while now and am not sure about my success. When I use the rs spl meter to calibrate, the readings I get vary a lot over just a foot or 2. i realize that it is the reading at the seating position that is important, but if I am seated in a portion of the room that is getting an 86 db reading, but just a foot ahead of me the meter reads 80db or even 75 db....how do I know what reading is accurate for what the sub is actually putting out. In other words if I calibrate for 85 db at my seating position using avia, but then move the meter a foot behind me and the needle reads like 90 or 95 db, which is the more accurate reading for what power the sub is actually putting out? My system WAS set at +1 db for front and sub channels inside the receiver and the sub volume on the sub itself was set at 1/3 of the way up. Today I felt a little frisky and cranked the sub volume on the sub itself to 1 notch before halfway on the sub's volume control. I tested some discs at about -18 db master volume and most sounded VERY BASSY but still within limits. However, war of the worlds was crazy ridiculous bass!!!!! I could feel each crack in the sidewalk when the ship was coming out of the ground. My question is, how do I know what bass level is right if my damn meter's measurements are jumping all over the place depending on where I placeit in the room. Is 1 notch before halfway mark too high for the volume of my sub with the receiver sub volume set to +1? I think the fact that I have a bed in the room doesn't help, but it has to be there. I also don't know what a sub clipping or bottoming out sounds like. Is it very noticeable over the normal bass pounding. Also, once a bub bottoms out, is it damaged or is that just and indication that you need to lower the volume. I want to utilize the power of my sub but don't want to damage it in the process, please help!!! Thank you so much!!

Ok, you guys made me do it. Order put in for the ultra pc.

Wow, you waited 2 whole days!

Hey guys, I am the proud owner of an svs 20-39 pci cylinder sub, but have some questions for ya. I have been trying to properly calibrate this thing for a while now and am not sure about my success. When I use the rs spl meter to calibrate, the readings I get vary a lot over just a foot or 2. i realize that it is the reading at the seating position that is important, but if I am seated in a portion of the room that is getting an 86 db reading, but just a foot ahead of me the meter reads 80db or even 75 db....how do I know what reading is accurate for what the sub is actually putting out. In other words if I calibrate for 85 db at my seating position using avia, but then move the meter a foot behind me and the needle reads like 90 or 95 db, which is the more accurate reading for what power the sub is actually putting out? My system WAS set at +1 db for front and sub channels inside the receiver and the sub volume on the sub itself was set at 1/3 of the way up. Today I felt a little frisky and cranked the sub volume on the sub itself to 1 notch before halfway on the sub's volume control. I tested some discs at about -18 db master volume and most sounded VERY BASSY but still within limits. However, war of the worlds was crazy ridiculous bass!!!!! I could feel each crack in the sidewalk when the ship was coming out of the ground. My question is, how do I know what bass level is right if my damn meter's measurements are jumping all over the place depending on where I placeit in the room. Is 1 notch before halfway mark too high for the volume of my sub with the receiver sub volume set to +1? I think the fact that I have a bed in the room doesn't help, but it has to be there. I also don't know what a sub clipping or bottoming out sounds like. Is it very noticeable over the normal bass pounding. Also, once a bub bottoms out, is it damaged or is that just and indication that you need to lower the volume. I want to utilize the power of my sub but don't want to damage it in the process, please help!!! Thank you so much!!It's common to have different readings around your room. Calibrate to you listening position or to 3 and take an average. You won't get it perfectly right even with EQ or treatments. It will just get better. If you sub is calibrated flat or slightly hot with your mains then you should be fine. However, if you crank up the volume and hear distress from the sub, you either need to turn it down or get another sub :). WOTW moving the floor, furniture or facial hair is a pretty common experience with SVS subs. What you want is that wow factor in balance with your mains.

Wow, you waited 2 whole days!

I have self control, it was hard waiting those days, but I managed to hold on.

It's common to have different readings around your room. Calibrate to you listening position or to 3 and take an average. You won't get it perfectly right even with EQ or treatments. It will just get better. If you sub is calibrated flat or slightly hot with your mains then you should be fine. However, if you crank up the volume and hear distress from the sub, you either need to turn it down or get another sub :). WOTW moving the floor, furniture or facial hair is a pretty common experience with SVS subs. What you want is that wow factor in balance with your mains.


Thanks a lot for the promt response!! I find that after taking 4 readings in the listening position that the highest peak reading is 90 db with the other channels calibrated to 85 db using avia. The other 3 readings are 83 db, 90 db, and 88 db. The 83 db comes from a portion of the room which seems to have a steep decrease in db level compared to the rest of the room. this portion of the room is in the center of the room. I find when I average the numbers together I get an average db of about 87 db. Now the svs booklet says that they recomend a setting for the sub of 2 to 3 db higher than the other channels. So judging by my readings, does it sound like I have hit the mark. This was with my sub volume on the sub itself turned to 1 notch before the halfway mark, and the receiver sub volume at +1, the same as the front channels? Thanks again!!

For the rest of my speakers, I have primus 360 towers(rated low 38 hz) for the fronts, and a PC360 center(rated low 40hz). . My surrounds are infinity 160 bookshelf speakers and are rated to go down to 49 hz. All have 6 1/2" woofers.
With my new PC ultra on order, I was thinking of keeping all speakers set to small, and set the crossover to 60 hz?

Is this a good idea, or is 80hz still the preferred?

Long time lurker, but i've got some upgrade questions:

First, as of now I have a 25-31CS (serial number 50!) with an upgraded ISD woofer. Powering it is 1 channel of a Samson 700s. As far as room dimensions, lets just say it's real large. Listening area is a living room with a 2 story ceiling open to a kitchen, front den, etc. I get decent performance (as much as can be expected) from my current setup but would like a little more 'oomph' overall. I'm looking at selling my current sub and amp and upgrading. So here are my questions:

1. how much should I sell my current sub and amp for?
2. I was looking at the PB12-NSD to replace it, would it even be worth it to upgrade? (budget requirements are pretty much maxed at $600, minus what I get for my old setup)
3. Would it be better to just add another used 25-31CS to the other channel of the Samson? (If I can find one)


Thanks for any replies!!

Dax

For the rest of my speakers, I have primus 360 towers(rated low 38 hz) for the fronts, and a PC360 center(rated low 40hz). . My surrounds are infinity 160 bookshelf speakers and are rated to go down to 49 hz. All have 6 1/2" woofers.
With my new PC ultra on order, I was thinking of keeping all speakers set to small, and set the crossover to 60 hz?

Is this a good idea, or is 80hz still the preferred?

I'd say to try it both ways. If your setup is in a small room and/or you don't think you'll be listening really loud, 60hz might work ok as a crossover. My thought is that a PC13 Ultra has ridiculous output capabilities. If you're planning to listen at levels that give it a workout, there's no way your Primus bookshelf speakers will be able to keep up with the Ultra in the 60-80hz range. That's just my opinion. Again, I'd recommend at least trying it out both ways. The Ultra is just so capable and so linear that IMO, unless you had really good speakers all around that were capable to 35hz or lower, I'd have the Ultra cover up to 80hz, as it will give you a lot more impact in the 60-80hz range than your other speakers.

3. Would it be better to just add another used 25-31CS to the other channel of the Samson? (If I can find one)

Dax

Dax,

Personally, I would go with option 3 since you have the amp, and apparently the room, for a second cylinder, but with a twist: get a new one. The CS line isn't requested nearly as often as the PC line, so the link is at the bottom of the cylinder subs page. I believe you'll find what you're looking for at http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-cspas3.cfm.

-Robb

Dax,

Personally, I would go with option 3 since you have the amp, and apparently the room, for a second cylinder, but with a twist: get a new one. The CS line isn't requested nearly as often as the PC line, so the link is at the bottom of the cylinder subs page. I believe you'll find what you're looking for at http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-cspas3.cfm.

-Robb

Thanks Robb,

I guess I didn't peruse the SVS website enough to find out that they still sell the passive cylinders. I might just go ahead and add another in that case. Thanks for the reply!


Dax

Thanks Robb,

I guess I didn't peruse the SVS website enough to find out that they still sell the passive cylinders. I might just go ahead and add another in that case. Thanks for the reply!


DaxUpgrade your first sub to the NSD driver as well, so they will match.

Good catch Ron. I saw the "upgraded ISD woofer" and assumed he'd upgraded to the NSD.

-Robb

Well I have officially stopped lurking, and I am very happy to announce I am a proud owner of a SVS 2039 PC+ . Delivered today at lunch time. I Have been reading through all the posts here and elsewhere to speed the installation of the sub.

Thank you folks for helping me pick out a superior product.

Ergonomically exceptional. Fits in the same location as my very tiny M&K VX7. Okay it's a lot taller! But since it is squeezed behind my Paradigm Studio ref.60V2s and my not so dainty JVC 61 HDILA RP Visually gone.

Now here's where you guys come in. I ran the AVIA disc through and I am connected properly and phased okay, and all that basic stuff but, as I play the LFE sweeps should my RS SPL meter maintain a reasonable flat reading throughout the sweep? I think it should from what I have been able to assimilate from the previous posts. So far I see the needle peak twice through the sweep. I think I can run the AVIA disc through my laptop to see the frequencies that are bumping the needle. If you have ideas of having me move the sub around the room to find the best location, please save your time. I have a wife.
The sub can either go behind the TV or behind the TV. Seriously, there is either the location it's in or I can swap with her plant and put it in the corner of the room and corner load the sub. Right now it is about 4 inches away from the walls in an obtuse corner bay window. The vert. blinds now dance to the music.

Anyway, I'd like to thank Mason at Sonicboomaudio for expediting my request. Thank you!!! I will pass the word along.

And thank you all for your time and expertize. It's been great reading. Now I will put this knowledge to good use and I promise to keep you all informed as I go. Seems only fair.

Thanks and goodnight!

Tom



I will be working all weekend and part of next so I may not answer this post as soon as I would like, so have patience if you respond.

Now here's where you guys come in. I ran the AVIA disc through and I am connected properly and phased okay, and all that basic stuff but, as I play the LFE sweeps should my RS SPL meter maintain a reasonable flat reading throughout the sweep? I think it should from what I have been able to assimilate from the previous posts. So far I see the needle peak twice through the sweep. I think I can run the AVIA disc through my laptop to see the frequencies that are bumping the needle. If you have ideas of having me move the sub around the room to find the best location, please save your time. I have a wife.

Congrats. I love my SVS as well. One thing I'd recommend is to head over to the Home Theater Shack website/forums and get the REW software. Great way to see exactly what's going on in your room, along with your RS SPL meter. Highly recommended, and free!

J

So after reading the last couple of pages of this thread I realized that my 5 year old 16-46 actually has a new NSD driver available, well it's not really new but it's new to me. Ordered it yesterday, should have it by Wednesday. Hopefully it's money well spent and will tide me over until my dual MFWs/Caliber arrive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/GregK500/IMG_0634.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/GregK500/IMG_0635.jpg

Thanks Jarin, I checked it out and that is exactly what I was looking for, and will download those test tones.

The veneer finish on all these subs and speaker are wonderful. Nice Rosie!

Maybe on the next upgrade cycle, my wallet will step up to the plate.

I will be a few days before I get to the sweeps. Patience!

Tom

I am SVS new user at HK


HELLO Everybody

http://lh6.google.com.hk/martinton/R9yhK40WJXI/AAAAAAAACdw/3Q52ZL-ueYE/s800/S7000001.JPG

http://lh6.google.com.hk/martinton/R94riY0WJcI/AAAAAAAACeY/gcmVON-9Jv4/s800/DSCF1055.jpg

I am SVS new user at HK

HELLO Everybody

Welcome to the AVS Forum, Martin.

From the top picture, looks like you are either an SVS distributer, or you have more subs than anyone in this forum.

I hope the bottom picture (no pun intended) is not your best side.:) You ever see rhinos having sex? Kind of reminds me of that. You must really love your Ultra.

Rosie uncovered (naked) :eek:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/GregK500/IMG_0638.jpg


No one can take their eyes off Rosie, even the TV people! :D


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/GregK500/IMG_0639.jpg

I can caption that last picture:

Woman: "How many broken toes do you think Rosie has inflicted so far?"

Man: "Yeah, she sure is just right out there."

Woman: "And she's got an awfully deep voice for a female."

Man: *gasp* "Are those some.... VCR tapes I see?"

I can caption that last picture:

Woman: "How many broken toes do you think Rosie has inflicted so far?"

Man: "Yeah, she sure is just right out there."

Woman: "And she's got an awfully deep voice for a female."

Man: *gasp* "Are those some.... VCR tapes I see?"

LOL... yes, those ARE VCR tapes:), I was waiting for someone to comment on them ;). They don't really get much use anymore, but the silver box next to the center speaker is actually a combo DVD/VCR player from Sony. It will be replaced hopefully later this year by a Panasonic Blu-Ray when the newer one comes out. :cool:

What are folks thoughts comparing these two?
My room is 16x14x8.
90% HT 10% Music
I lowered it down to these two based on:
Their availability (buy this week)
Their reputation (both seem great for loud, clean, low bass)

craigsub leaned me towards the HSU, but then I read that his review was done based on an older model (different amp I believe???) and figured you folks are the first hand resource, so I'm looking for your input comparing the two....

I'm not sure if I'm splitting hairs at this point, but I can't seem to make up my mind between the two. :confused:

What are folks thoughts comparing these two?
My room is 16x14x8.
90% HT 10% Music
I lowered it down to these two based on:
Their availability (buy this week)
Their reputation (both seem great for loud, clean, low bass)

craigsub leaned me towards the HSU, but then I read that his review was done based on an older model (different amp I believe???) and figured you folks are the first hand resource, so I'm looking for your input comparing the two....

I'm not sure if I'm splitting hairs at this point, but I can't seem to make up my mind between the two. :confused:The older model SVS you are talking about is the PB12-NSD. It has had the amp upgraded since Craig tested and is supposed to be much better now. Should be more on par with the HSU 3.3 and a little lesser than the HO. Just a guess. The +/2 hasn't changed for almost 2 years. This is what I have and I have had mine for almost 2 years now. SVS replaced the drivers to the 12.3 at that time.

I have a very large room that I need to fill (ca 5000 cubic feet, and partly open to another room on one side), and, sadly a very tight budget.

Which is more powerful - the PB12 NSD or the 25-31 PC-Plus? Or are they roughly equivalent?

The "Plus" series is considered to be a step up from the NSD series in quality and output. The woofers are better and the amps are more powerful.

Which is more powerful - the PB12 NSD or the 25-31 PC-Plus? Or are they roughly equivalent?

The 25-31 PC-Plus is tuned higher, uses a superior driver with higher linear travel and more overall amp power. If we are talking about maximum clean output, I think the PB12 (prior to amp revision) would lose.

Just my 0.1 c.

--Regards,

Of the single driver subs, the 25-31+ has the most output (excluding the Ultra).

Rosie uncovered (naked) :eek:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/GregK500/IMG_0638.jpg


No one can take their eyes off Rosie, even the TV people! :D


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/GregK500/IMG_0639.jpg

don't think ive seen such a nice picture of the SB12 before...that is a gorgeous finish.:eek:

I can caption that last picture:

Woman: "How many broken toes do you think Rosie has inflicted so far?"

Man: "Yeah, she sure is just right out there."

Woman: "And she's got an awfully deep voice for a female."

Man: *gasp* "Are those some.... VCR tapes I see?"

LOL!:D I was thinking the same thing... careful walking around at night with the lights off... ouch ouch ouch.

Welcome to the AVS Forum, Martin.

From the top picture, looks like you are either an SVS distributer, or you have more subs than anyone in this forum.

I hope the bottom picture (no pun intended) is not your best side.:) You ever see rhinos having sex? Kind of reminds me of that. You must really love your Ultra.


the 2nd photo guy isn't me

I never having sex with rhinos:eek::eek::eek:

I am ordering my dual SVS subwoofers (CS+, not sure if they will be 20-39 or 16-46) in the next week and I am just wondering how people have made out with positioning their dual subwoofers?
After reading forum after forum and numerous articles, it seems like the two best options for dual subwoofers is flanking the right and left front main speakers or using the side walls and placing the subwoofers half way down those walls.
I have attached a CAD drawing I created that depicts the general layout of the room. The dimensions of the entire room are 25'x14'x8'.

Hows this? I love mine this way. I like your setup, however it seems to me your subs are kind of out in your room a bit much, but thats just my taste.

http://www.almost7.com/front.JPG

I like the way your subs set up so they blend very well into the room decor. I would love to do something similiar, but instead I would have to have the subs on the outside of the front speakers in order to have a enough room to get the projection screen at the optimal height.
Did you have any problems with blending two subwoofers in your room?

I was actually going to go with cylinders, and did not because they would not fit with my setup there kind of like yours. They were several inches too high.

No I didn't have any problems blending them at all. I think because they are placed in the same way on each side at the same distance it probably helped. Literally all I did was plug it in and check levels with a SLP meter. Phase or any adjustment like that was not necessary.

I just love the sound of 2 subs, its so effortless and clean. And its output is downright scary.

My PB12-NSD ships friday :)

How long did it take to get a tracking number? I talked to SVS yesterday and they said it would ship today. I know I may be jumping the gun, but I'm dying to know when it will arrive. I would call but I don't want to seem like I'm bothering them.

I just placed my order for a NSD-12 this afternoon. I sent and e-mail to Ed and asked if I would be included in the shipments that will begin on 3/28 and he said it might not be exactly this Friday but they should have enough supply for me to get mine soon.

Can't wait.

How long did it take to get a tracking number? I talked to SVS yesterday and they said it would ship today. I know I may be jumping the gun, but I'm dying to know when it will arrive. I would call but I don't want to seem like I'm bothering them.

Did you ever get your tracking number? Mine is supposed to ship today. If I dont get anything by tomorrow i'll probably shoot them an email.

Did you ever get your tracking number? Mine is supposed to ship today. If I dont get anything by tomorrow i'll probably shoot them an email.

For me I ordered a PC Ultra around 3 weeks ago or so. Then a couple of days ago I received a tracking email directly from UPS. So make sure you don't have a white filter on your email.

I just purchased a PB10-NSD and am trying to figure some stuff out...

It shuts off when the receiver is still on. I will be watching tv for an hour or so and notice that there is no low end. After investigating I realized the sub had turned off. It is set to Auto-On. Anybody else having that problem?

I am sure I will have more questions as well...

Also the proud owner of a PB12-Plus/2 in my main entertainment room (took delivery of both the same day, first time SVS owner)... It's scary and shocking the sound that comes out of it! Watched LOTR opening scene and scared the hell out of my girlfriend!

Regular TV doesn't always carry low frequencies or may have long periods of no LFE. This will allow the sub to think there is no signal and turn off. You may have to turn the gain on the sub down and the sub channel on the AVR up. You might also try using a Y adapter and connecting to both the left and right inputs. This is how I have my +/2 hooked up and I have never had a problem with the auto on/off.

Regular TV doesn't always carry low frequencies or may have long periods of no LFE. This will allow the sub to think there is no signal and turn off. You may have to turn the gain on the sub down and the sub channel on the AVR up.

Good ideas. I'd definitely try these. One other option is just to leave the sub "on". From what many forum members have said, the difference in power consumption between having the sub set to "auto" versus "on" when not in use is pretty negligible. I have two PB10's and leave them on all of the time. That way I know I won't miss a quick LFE hit after a prolonged bass-less section in my movies :).

You might also try using a Y adapter and connecting to both the left and right inputs. This is how I have my +/2 hooked up and I have never had a problem with the auto on/off.

That won't work with the PB10-NSD. The PB10-NSD only has one input, so a y-cable would be useless. With his +/2, it's a different story, but the PB10 is the one he's having problems with. Sounds like the +/2 is working flawlessly.

I just purchased a pair of used CS-Ultra's for get this, $400. One of them has the updated TV-12 driver and the other has the older DB-12 driver. They will be co-located in a corner about 8 feet from the main listening position. They will be powered with an old Kenwood stereo amp with about 300wpc.The amp has no gain controls. Will the different drivers cause any calibration issues? I imagine I should just calibrate them together, correct? I was also thinking of installing a port plug in each sub, which I believe would give me a 16hz tune. They will be used primarily for HT, so I am willing to trade some mid-range punch for more extension.

Thanks,
Mike

That won't work with the PB10-NSD. The PB10-NSD only has one input, so a y-cable would be useless. I keep forgetting the PB10 doesn't have all the same inputs as the other SVS subs.

Regular TV doesn't always carry low frequencies or may have long periods of no LFE. This will allow the sub to think there is no signal and turn off. You may have to turn the gain on the sub down and the sub channel on the AVR up. You might also try using a Y adapter and connecting to both the left and right inputs. This is how I have my +/2 hooked up and I have never had a problem with the auto on/off.

It can also depend simply on your receiver volume. I have watched my sub over the last few weeks, testing, and I have found if I turn down my volume low enough, my sub will "go back to sleep":D But it does not seem to take much (volume/LFE) to wake her up though it would seem....I do not worry about missing something while watching a movie or anything since my overall volume listening level is raised then and my sub is fully awake and stays awake.

Another possibility which I'm not 100% sure if it works or not is to lower the gain on the sub, and increase the sub channel output from the receiver, so the output volume is still the same. I think/hope that the sub then sees stronger incoming signal and feels an urge to stay on at lower output volumes.

That's how I've tried to set my PB10 up - I have the gain set low enough so the receiver is running about +4 on the sub channel, while all the speakers are -3 to -6.

I haven't confirmed one way or another if this helps, but it might be worth trying to see if it helps?

Another possibility which I'm not 100% sure if it works or not is to lower the gain on the sub, and increase the sub channel output from the receiver, so the output volume is still the same. I think/hope that the sub then sees stronger incoming signal and feels an urge to stay on at lower output volumes.
This is why I said "You may have to turn the gain on the sub down and the sub channel on the AVR up."

I got an extra PB12-Plus in piano black laying around now, if anyone is interested...
8-9 months old..

Guys my sub still hasn't shipped yet :(

Anyone know how long they take to get here once they ship? is it 3 day shipping?

Guys my sub still hasn't shipped yet :(

Anyone know how long they take to get here once they ship? is it 3 day shipping?

you should be getting a tracking number soon. :D

i did!

you should be getting a tracking number soon. :D

i did!

That would be good, I had planned to have a movie weekend starting friday...hopefully I can still do that.

you should email Erik K on the status of your order.

you should email Erik K on the status of your order.
If I dont hear something tomorrow I will. I was told my order shoudl ship today or tomorrow...

Can someone help me here? I found a local SVS 20-39 PC, but it has the older amp, and not the BASH design. Were these good subs?

He states it comes with a 190w RMS amp, is this amp powerful enough to drive the speaker.

Guys my sub still hasn't shipped yet :(

Anyone know how long they take to get here once they ship? is it 3 day shipping?

Glad to see I'm not the only one waiting on a sub from SVS. I placed my order on March 14th. Erik told me that if they get the amps in the morning my sub should ship that night. Im waiting on an SB12+.

Can someone help me here? I found a local SVS 20-39 PC, but it has the older amp, and not the BASH design. Were these good subs?

He states it comes with a 190w RMS amp, is this amp powerful enough to drive the speaker.I would contact SVS. This sounds like a Frankenstein sub.

I bought a new PB12 Plus/2 back in early March-Textured Black....it's a GREAT sub but most of you already know that. I wanted the Piano Gloss Black but these were gone. But as some luck would have it..some good timing and terrific SVS customer service; I was able to get a hold of not 1 but 2 Piano Gloss Black Plus/2's.

They will be arriving 2moro (wed) via Bax Global and they are supposed to pick up the textured black one. I can't seem to figure out how to repackage this Mother of a Beast they call a Sub. I have all the original packing, foam etc....I did go buy a plastic tarp like thing to cover the sub in. The one it came with had to be cut out. This is such a heavy sub to learn as you go in packing it.

Anyone remember how theirs arrived? The four padded foam corners I think go on top of the sub and the rectangular padded foam piece goes on the bottom plate?

I'm sure I'll figure it out but if anyone can help it would be much appreciated.

BTW, the Gloss Black Plus/2's should look might nice with my Polk LS9s/LSiC and soon to be LS7 setup. The LS9/7 pairs are kind of a quasi gloss look...Can't wait.

Dual Plus/2's overkill? Yep. :)

I try and live by the "less is more" mentality until it comes to Home Theater & Popcorn. :D

Thanks for any suggestions!

The old SVS subs had class A/B amps before the BASH designs came out. Most likely there is no frankensteining going on there.

I took some measurements to calibrate the peq. Here is before starting with 20hz in 5 hz increments:
(peak)
65,74,72,66,73,69,78,82,83,62,80,75 (20-80)

After adjusting peq
(35hz) (65hz)
74,73,72,61,74,68,75,74,74,65,77,83,75,71,75 (20-90)

As you can see I smoothed it out a bit but I have a dip at 35hz,65hz, and a little peak at 75hz. What would I adjust to get rid of those dips?

How long does it take this company to ship something that was listed in stock on their website?

Ordered an SB12 Plus Sunday night, it's now Thursday. No shipping email yet. No CC bill either though.

How long does it take this company to ship something that was listed in stock on their website?

Ordered an SB12 Plus Sunday night, it's now Thursday. No shipping email yet. No CC bill either though.

Surprising, I ordered the SB12 on a Saturday evening, and received the sub the following Wednesday. This was back in the end of Feb.

Surprising, I ordered the SB12 on a Saturday evening, and received the sub the following Wednesday. This was back in the end of Feb.

But if you ordered piano black, you may have to wait longer ;). I ordered the Rosenut.....drumroll.........

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/GregK500/IMG_0638.jpg

Can someone verify if 190W RMS amps were put into the 20-39 PC subs from about 6-7 years ago? I found one locally with an updated driver but I have no idea if these were good. I contacted SVS and left a message and no one called back. I know the current PCI models have the 325w BASH amps, was 190w too small for a 12" sub or were they more powerful than the ratings indicate?

How long does it take this company to ship something that was listed in stock on their website?

Ordered an SB12 Plus Sunday night, it's now Thursday. No shipping email yet. No CC bill either though.

I ordered my Piano black SB12 on March 14th. Its shipping tomorrow or Monday. :rolleyes:

When I placed my order on the 14th that was after waiting nearly a month for their website to indicate it was in stock.

I ordered my Piano black SB12 on March 14th. Its shipping tomorrow or Monday. :rolleyes:

When I placed my order on the 14th that was after waiting nearly a month for their website to indicate it was in stock.

That's weak. I also ordered Piano Black.

Just received my PB10 yesterday and hooked it up to my set up. WOW, what a difference. I'm coming from an old Energy 8" sub and cannot believe how much better this sounds. I have not calibrated yet, basically just swapped the old sub out. So far so good. Happy to be a part of the SVS club!

That's weak. I also ordered Piano Black.

Yeah, it is weak. I was told if they get the amps this morning my sub will ship out this evening. If not, Monday.

I got my SVS PB12 NSD yesterday, hooked it up, sounds pretty good. Of course certain areas of the room have substantially more bass than others. But its not bad sitting on the couch and thats with the sub in a NON ideal location.

I was surprised at how accurate it was for music too. It's not the most accurate for music, but its very accurate for something ported. On a music scale I'd rate it an 8.0 out of 10 and on a home theater scale its a 9 or 9.5 out of 10 when figuring in the cost of this sub. I've heard some that are better (actually another SVS) but it also cost substantially more.

I love the shake this thing puts out, its damn impressive and a lot of fun, can't wait to watch band of brothers or saving private ryan.

Ordered an SB12 Plus Sunday night, it's now Thursday. No shipping email yet. No CC bill either though.

I ordered two plain black SB12's Wednesday night, it's now Saturday, and I haven't received shipping notice either. Their web site still says "Ships next business day". Guess not!

I ordered two plain black SB12's Wednesday night, it's now Saturday, and I haven't received shipping notice either. Their web site still says "Ships next business day". Guess not!

If mine does not ship on Monday, I've giving svs hell. They need to get their s#$t together.

Instead of all this suffering all this anxiety, why doesn't someone just pick up a phone and call them. You still know how to use a telephone, don't you?

Instead of all this suffering all this anxiety, why doesn't someone just pick up a phone and call them. You still know how to use a telephone, don't you?


Ah yes, the days before the internet!....how'd we ever get by before it, having to carry on an actual conversation with another human being.

It does sound so complicated now. ;)

I called and talked to Erik at SVS several times about my order.

I called and talked to Erik at SVS several times about my order.

so what's the news on the SB12 hold up?

I'd guess it's either the amps or the cabinets (or both).

Sincere apologies about this. The SB12-Plus amps are on back-order and are due in this week. We expected them much sooner (and this is the reason why we initially did not list them as OOS on the product page), but our vendor just didn't deliver. We should have updated the product page once we knew the amp delay would be longer - no excuses.

Rosenut is on back-order (due 30-Apr-08), but other finishes are in-stock. Please call the Sales line for more details and time frames for the amps: (703) 845-1472 or toll free (877)-626-5623 from 10AM until 6PM Eastern Time, Monday through Friday.

Sincere apologies about this. The SB12-Plus amps are on back-order and are due in this week. We expected them much sooner (and this is the reason why we initially did not list them as OOS on the product page), but our vendor just didn't deliver. We should have updated the product page once we knew the amp delay would be longer - no excuses.

Rosenut is on back-order (due 30-Apr-08), but other finishes are in-stock. Please call the Sales line for more details and time frames for the amps: (703) 845-1472 or toll free (877)-626-5623 from 10AM until 6PM Eastern Time, Monday through Friday.

This week? I was told they were in this past Friday. If this is the case I will be canceling my order...

Who else makes front firing cube 12" subs in Piano black at a similar price point ($799?)

This week? I was told they were in this past Friday. If this is the case I will be canceling my order...

pfff its a whole 5 days more. Not like they pushed it back over a month. And anything else pretty much has a wait. No point in over reacting on something as minor as that.

Kudos to Ed at SVS for being honest.

Bykes, you need to take a deep breath or two my man. Suppliers fall short sometimes. Ed admitted that they dropped the ball by not updating the website as soon as they knew there would be more delay. I've gotta give SVS kudos on admitting they made a mistake, allbeit a small one, in not updating the website sooner.

Most companies would just blame the vendor and leave it at that. It's that kind of honesty that makes my purchase this week of a PB12NSD a no brainer.... even though it's from sonicboomaudio here in canada.

I understand what you guys are saying. However, forgive me If my patience with SVS is running a little short I've been waiting for them to get this sub in for about 2 months now.

I understand what you guys are saying. However, forgive me If my patience with SVS is running a little short I've been waiting for them to get this sub in for about 2 months now.

I personally think you should keep this between you and them (not blathering all over the internet). I'd say your experience is unusual.

On the AVS forum is not "all over the internet."

I haven't been contacted in email or by phone that my order is being delayed. That should be a given. CS can't scan orders for an item and send out an email about a delay? Come on. Sounds like a sorry excuse for not taking care of customers.

On the AVS forum is not "all over the internet."

I haven't been contacted in email or by phone that my order is being delayed. That should be a given. CS can't scan orders for an item and send out an email about a delay? Come on. Sounds like a sorry excuse for not taking care of customers.

What I see here is the potential to bad mouth a very good ID supplier of subwoofers. They were very honest with me and answered all of my questions when I asked. I guess I'm just a little skeptical of the claims being made here.

On the AVS forum is not "all over the internet."




Not just here, but over at club polk too...
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65746

I understand what you guys are saying. However, forgive me If my patience with SVS is running a little short I've been waiting for them to get this sub in for about 2 months now.


Trust me it will be worth the wait. I am sure that the SVS guys will take care of you in the end.

Michael

Not just here, but over at club polk too...
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65746

Yes, thats me as well. I'm not the only one who is a registered member both at avs and at polk. I'm not trying to slander svs. I just want my sub.

What I see here is the potential to bad mouth a very good ID supplier of subwoofers. They were very honest with me and answered all of my questions when I asked. I guess I'm just a little skeptical of the claims being made here.

The ball is in SVS's CS court atm.

A backorder issue happened with Aperion and me a few days ago, they gave me a phone call, told me about the delay, and said I can keep my current Aperion trial speakers as long as it'll take until the new ones came in.

I didn't have to chase anyone down or shoot out an email.

The ball is in SVS's CS court atm.

A backorder issue happened with Aperion and me a few days ago, they gave me a phone call, told me about the delay, and said I can keep my current Aperion trial speakers as long as it'll take until the new ones came in.

I didn't have to chase anyone down or shoot out an email.


Good for you! :)

Good for you man...I am anticipating delivery of my PB12 NSD today and can hardly wait. Mine will be strictly HT and I hope it's as good as yours.



I got my SVS PB12 NSD yesterday, hooked it up, sounds pretty good. Of course certain areas of the room have substantially more bass than others. But its not bad sitting on the couch and thats with the sub in a NON ideal location.

I was surprised at how accurate it was for music too. It's not the most accurate for music, but its very accurate for something ported. On a music scale I'd rate it an 8.0 out of 10 and on a home theater scale its a 9 or 9.5 out of 10 when figuring in the cost of this sub. I've heard some that are better (actually another SVS) but it also cost substantially more.

I love the shake this thing puts out, its damn impressive and a lot of fun, can't wait to watch band of brothers or saving private ryan.

Called SVS about my order. Sorry guys, but I canceled my order. CS was very apologetic, however a pen or t shirt won't make up for my 3 month wait.

Sorry to hear that bykes...it seems no matter where you go for a sub these days you'll have to wait.

I am looking to buy 2 CS+ 16-46s from a friend locally. These are driven by the Sampson S1000 amp.

My issue is that placement will not be "together" and in a room corner. Instead, each unit will be on a side wall (L or R) and positioned likely between the fronts and the side surrounds (closer to the side surrounds). Likely crossover point will be 80hz.

My question:

a) The CS+ with external amplification doesn't offer any phase shift. Am I likely to get bad interference with this setup?
b) Can I go ahead and simply cross-wire one to reverse the phase?

Thanks!

I have about 3000 cubic feet of space.

Usage: Mostly HT, some Wii, some TV/Sports, limited music

The PCPlus 25-31 will look better in our space (there is a trim piece that goes around our room at 34 inches off the floor). However, I keep reading that the 20-37 is better for HT.

My questions:
a) Will a non audiophile hear/feel the difference between these two?
b) Is there any concern tuning the 25-31 down to 20Hz? We are not super high db listeners but don't want to be bottoming out / distorting the clean sound.

Thanks!

I have about 3000 cubic feet of space.

Usage: Mostly HT, some Wii, some TV/Sports, limited music

The PCPlus 25-31 will look better in our space (there is a trim piece that goes around our room at 34 inches off the floor). However, I keep reading that the 20-37 is better for HT.

My questions:
a) Will a non audiophile hear/feel the difference between these two?
b) Is there any concern tuning the 25-31 down to 20Hz? We are not super high db listeners but don't want to be bottoming out / distorting the clean sound.

Thanks!

If the height doesn't absolutely put you off, the 20-39 PC+ is a better choice for HT, IMO. You can tune the 25-31 PC+ lower than its native 25hz tune, but you'll lose output across the board, and it won't be nearly as powerful from 20hz and below as the 20-39 PC+.

You don't need to be an "audiophile" to appreciate the added extension of the 20-39 PC+. Many movies have powerful bass at 20hz and even lower, and this bass can really add to the atmosphere of the movie. It can subtly (or not so subtly) add a sense of "presence", a tactile feeling of "being in the movie". Don't get me wrong, many people have the 25-31 PC+ and love it, but unless the height truly is a big issue, I think the 20-39 PC+ is well worth the few extra bucks.

My question:

a) The CS+ with external amplification doesn't offer any phase shift. Am I likely to get bad interference with this setup?
b) Can I go ahead and simply cross-wire one to reverse the phase?

Thanks!

You won't know whether there is a phase problem until you get them set up in your room. In an anechoic space, the subs would work well together as long as they are equidistant from your listening position. In a real room with walls you can't always assume that. You can reverse the phase on one of the subs by reversing the polarity of the cables going to the sub.

If you need more advanced control than just 0/180 degrees, you will have to get an interface box that allows continuously-adjustable phase. SVS used to sell one from Marchand electronics but they no longer make them. Elemental Designs has one though that also has some other features. http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_123&products_id=657

If there is cancellation between the two subs you will probably only need to buy one of those units. One sub can be run unprocessed with a direct connection from receiver to amplifier, and the other sub will have the signal run through the eQ.2 first then to the amplifier.

If, however, your unprocessed sub and main speakers don't blend well together (at either 0 or 180 degrees), you might need a second unit so that you can fully tweak the phase of both subs. Or you can experiment with the "distance" setting for the subwoofer on your receiver, some people have gotten that to work just as effectively as a phase control.

Of course a pair of eQ.2 would also give you some parametric equalization options and subsonic filter for each sub, which might be worth the price if you don't already have something like a Behringer DSP unit.

Called SVS about my order. Sorry guys, but I canceled my order. CS was very apologetic, however a pen or t shirt won't make up for my 3 month wait.

Wow. I didn't realize you'd been waiting 3 months. Something is definitely amiss. I think too many companies are vying for the same amp supplier (and maybe cabinets). Seems like all the good subs are requiring a substantial waiting period.

Yeah, I'm pretty upset by the whole ordeal.

I am will be running a set up that will be utilizing dual SVS passive cylinder subwoofers in a setup that puts them in the fornt left and right corners much like the previous posting on this thread. I have been tracking numerous postings and threads on the subject and it seems like the dual subs will work with a little bit of tweaking. The resounding response has been to use the Behringer BFD unit to tame both subs. I am going to try out the subs with equalization provided by my receiver's internal Audyssey MultiEq XT and see if that does the trick, if not I will take the leap and get the Behringer BFD unit.
The previous poster should keep us all informed on how he makes outs as I am very interested. I am getting my dual SVS 20-39CS subs in the next couple of weeks and I will keep my journey posted

Wow. I didn't realize you'd been waiting 3 months. Something is definitely amiss. I think too many companies are vying for the same amp supplier (and maybe cabinets). Seems like all the good subs are requiring a substantial waiting period.

It must have just gotten that way then. I ordered a sub around Feb 22 on a Saturday in Rosenut and had the sub in my house the next Wednesday.

Yeah, I'm pretty upset by the whole ordeal.

So what are you going to get then?

So what are you going to get then?

I don't know.

Why do I suspect another month of looking and in the mean time the SVS could have arrived or were you not that far up the list?

Why do I suspect another month of looking and in the mean time the SVS could have arrived or were you not that far up the list?

I was first in line. Or at least so I was told. The thing is everyone on avs and club polk had nothing but positive things to say about SVS. But I found my experience to be quite the opposite. The only way I knew that there was a problem with my order is when my credit card was refunded. Then I had to call and find out what was going on. Then I had to call 2 or 3 times more to find out my order kept being pushed back. I don't doubt their products are great, but their customer relations needs to improve. Just go look at their website. It still states that my subwoofer would ship next business day!

Bykes,

It is clear that you did not have a good experience with SVS getting your sub out when you expected. Clear. Move on sir! The only reason I could see anyone sticking around here to keep complaining is to get some expedited immediate attention from SVS.

There are people that waited a year for there subs from SVS and were happy when they got them. SVS has zero control of when they get parts so I am not sure how costumer service is even an issue here to begin with. Also, as stated farther up the thread, every online sub builder is backed up.

I could agree with you if you were getting medical attention and had to wait as your blood was draining from your body... but lets put this into prospective... its a sub!

Nuf said, move on or be patent.

Bykes,

It is clear that you did not have a good experience with SVS getting your sub out when you expected. Clear. Move on sir! The only reason I could see anyone sticking around hear to keep complaining is to get some expedited immediate attention from SVS.

There are people that waited a year for there subs from SVS and were happy when they got them. SVS has zero control of when they get parts so I am not sure how costumer service is even an issue here to begin with. Also, as stated farther up the thread, every online sub builder is backed up.

I could agree with you if you were getting medical attention and had to wait as your blood was draining from your body... but lets put this into prospective... its a sub!

Nuf said, move on or be patent.


Ok.

I am moving on. But, I do see this as a customer service issue. Clearly it does not state on their website, which is their primary way of doing business, that there is any supply issues. I don't think its fair for people as yourself to think that no one should say anything but positive things about SVS. I believe if there is anything wrong people should be aware.

This is a owner support thread as stated in the title. You have made your point many times over and are now deliberatly steering this thread in a different direction than its original intent. I suggest if you are unhappy with SVS you take it up with them directly. Nobody other than them can help you at this point.

This is a owner support thread as stated in the title. You have made your point many times over and are now deliberatly steering this thread in a different direction than its original intent. I suggest if you are unhappy with SVS you take it up with them directly. Nobody other than them can help you at this point.

While I agree with your point, I think people do have a right to mention issues. That said, every time you, I, or anyone else tries to steer bykes away from mentioning his problem, it will only be discussed more, both by him and by those admonishing him for it. This is the last I'll speak of it. I feel badly for bykes, as it seems he wasn't updated as well as he could have been. I also feel badly for bykes because he's missing out on a great product. Everyone can feel free to move on with their lives now :).

This is a owner support thread as stated in the title.
The title is "Owners/Support", which is not the same thing. If you want prospective customers like me to stay out of your thread you should change the title.

Ok, I will move on and drop it. Thanks for your help guys its appreciated.

The title is "Owners/Support", which is not the same thing. If you want prospective customers like me to stay out of your thread you should change the title.

Agreed. I for one want to know everyones experience, good or bad with SVS. No company is perfect and we need to hear the negatives as well to get a truly accurate idea of the company as a whole IMO. With the title "Owners/Support Thread" in my mind all experiences are welcome to be expressed.

Having said that, besides a few minor annoyances, SVS has been a phenominal experience for me both product, and CS:) I had a few issues with my 12/2 Ultra when I first got it and these guys bent over backwards to make and get things right. Truly first class. I have a PB13 on order that should be going out this week. Fantastic company/product!

SvS can do no wrong.
I just received a new +2 and have nothing but good things to say about svs
but you guys have no right to tell this guy what and what -not he can say.
Who do you think you are? It doesnt seem like he is going on and on about anything. As a matter of fact I wanna know more. What kinda sub you waiting on?
I am a svs fanboy and I have heard nothing but good things about this award winning company but to chastize this guy is wrong and the very company that "you have its back" wouldnt want it either.....punk

Personally, I have had very good support from SVS. If they are starting to deceive customers, for whatever reason, I would like to know and know why. As you all know, one Aw sh&$*t wipes out all your attaboys.

OTOH, this "Globalization" trend appears to be having negative affects on other companies. There are too many things beyond their control when critical components come from other countries. Especially those countries with manipulative or corrupt governments. In my opinion, global economy really means 'don't employ Americans'.

Add to this the economic downturn we are experiencing, I believe more manufacturers are going to take a BTO approach and buy smaller lots of raw material and components to help reduce inventories. Not a bad policy, but it should be disclosed in their web sites where availability is shown. I don't mind a wait as long as they don't tell me the product is in stock.

So, how bout those Mets?

Personally, I have had very good support from SVS. If they are starting to deceive customers, for whatever reason, I would like to know and know why. As you all know, one Aw sh&$*t wipes out all your attaboys.

OTOH, this "Globalization" trend appears to be having negative affects on other companies. There are too many things beyond their control when critical components come from other countries. Especially those countries with manipulative or corrupt governments. In my opinion, global economy really means 'don't employ Americans'.

Add to this the economic downturn we are experiencing, I believe more manufacturers are going to take a BTO approach and buy smaller lots of raw material and components to help reduce inventories. Not a bad policy, but it should be disclosed in their web sites where availability is shown. I don't mind a wait as long as they don't tell me the product is in stock.That could very well be happening with SVS as their channels become more diversified and competition becomes stiffer. Amps and cabinets seem to be the bottleneck with this OEM as well as others. Personally, I think that overall ID market demand has increased, so that the rather small supply chains of all the players are choking the various suppliers. At the same time frugal OEMs are exercising buying limits so they don't get stuck with inventory on the books. When it flows smoothly BTO/JIT can be pretty seamless.

it would seem the SB12's are being held up by the amps. it's bash's fault! :)

haha ... just kidding. hopefully they ship this week or next week. no hurry ... no space.

Ordered a PB12 NSD today, it's scheduled to ship out tomorrow! I'll post when I receive it and get it all hooked up. I was going to get the 20-39 but between that not being available for another week or so plus the height, I decided to go with the regular box instead. I hope to be wow'd and impressed as much as the rest of you fellow SVS owners here :)

So, how bout those Mets?

LOL, Nice job sir!

They are usually on the ball with communication with their customers, I'm surprised to hear that they didn't email people about the supply delays....

I have 4 of their subs, and have never had a lick of trouble from them, or the customer service... Heck they even emailed me back on christmas day... Who Does that...

Ordered a PB12 NSD today, it's scheduled to ship out tomorrow! I'll post when I receive it and get it all hooked up. I was going to get the 20-39 but between that not being available for another week or so plus the height, I decided to go with the regular box instead. I hope to be wow'd and impressed as much as the rest of you fellow SVS owners here :)


Hey Tony...I just received my PB12 NSD and would like to hear your thoughts on it when you get it all set-up. I've done an initial set-up but want/need to do way more listening/tweaking. I'm not sure how I would describe my feelings now...kinda mixed.

This also goes for any other PB12 NSD folks out there.

I really like the PB12-NSD for HT but not so much for music, I find it hard to get it to blend with the mains, just a little too punchy for my tastes. Some of the waveforms I have seen of the PB12, shows it to have a bit of a bump in the 40-60hz range and then levels off. I have found if I set the XO to 40hz, effectively reducing that bumped up range, allows the system to blend nicely. I like this sound much better for music. I then have to reset for HT to get that extra punch it has. If this was the only sub I could afford I would love it and make a few more adjustemnts here and there, but I can afford more so the PB13 Ultra is on order.

Hello,
I am having an SVS get-together at my place on April 26th from 4:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. If you live in AZ, and want to hear the MTS speakers and one or two PB13-Ultras, feel free to come by. Ron Stimpson of SV Sound will be on hand with spiffs for folks. He will also bring a prototype of their new Audyssey box. The electronics will consist of an Emotiva processor and amp, a Samsung BD-UP 5000 duo format player, and a Craig Rounds calibrated Mitsubishi television.

Also, I will be giving away my PB12-Ultra/2 in the original Mercury Red.

If you want to come by and listen to these speakers/subs, and maybe have a beer or two, send me a private message with a phone number to get directions.

-Robb

Wow. I didn't realize you'd been waiting 3 months. Something is definitely amiss. I think too many companies are vying for the same amp supplier (and maybe cabinets). Seems like all the good subs are requiring a substantial waiting period.

@bykes;
If you're still reading this, once again we apologize about the delays and lack of communication. There is no excuse for the lack of communication; the only explanation we can give is that we were hesitant to send out an update when the situation kept changing. We kept having an imminent update on the near term horizon but the updates and hence the delivery date kept being pushed further and further. We don't want to be uncommunicative but at the same time we don't want to say 1 thing on Friday and then something else completely on Monday; so we kept waiting for the next update to get the definitive answer until it had gone longer than was acceptable. As I said that's no excuse for not keeping people in the loop but just a reason why it happened.

Luckily the amps are on a truck as we speak and we hope to get them early enough tomorrow to build and ship the backorders before the weekend. Having said that, with the delays we've seen so far we're not holding our breaths until the boxes are actually ON our dock. With our luck on these amps, customs will decide that very tiny illegal aliens are hiding in the boxes and delay the shipment for a week.

For the record the oldest order we had for the SB12-Plus that was either cancelled or not shipped yet was from 3/14. I'm guessing that bykes is including a little of the time he spent deciding on the sub he wanted in his 2-3 month wait. Plus I know that waiting for something you want always makes time feel like it's dragging on forever. :)

bykes if you do decide to get an SB12-Plus at some point in the future make sure to call in your order to the sales line and ask to speak to me and I'll make sure we take care of you.

bykes if you do decide to get an SB12-Plus at some point in the future make sure to call in your order to the sales line and ask to speak to me and I'll make sure we take care of you.

Erik K is THE man to talk to if you want your orders taken cared of quick. :)

Also, I will be giving away my PB12-Ultra/2 in the original Mercury Red.

what? can i have your sub scraps :p

seriously though, too bad im not in the US, that is ONE GENEROUS giveaway

GOOD DAY

THIS IS MY FIRST POST HERE. MOSTLY READING, BUT NOW TIME TO ASK HELP.
IT SEEMS, THAT HAVE SOME PROBLEM WITH SUB
MY EQUIPMENT: PIONEER VSX VX5Ai RECEIVER, DV-989Ai - DVD PLAYER, 5 SCS-01(STANDARD) SYSTEM AND SB12-PLUS.

ALL CONNECTED ACCORDING MANUAL. THE RECEIVER WAS TO SET TO RESET, AFTERTHAT PUT THE FRONTS, CENTER, SURROUND TO 'SMALL', CUT FREQUENCY 80HZ.
DISABLE ALL EQUALIZATION ON RECEIVER. ALL LEVELS SET TO '0'.

RECEIVER IS CONNECTED TO DVD PLAYER VIA I-LINK.

ON SUBWOOFER INTERNAL CROSSOVER IS DISABLED. CONNECTED TO RECEIVER BY RCA-RCA.SUBWOOFER CABLE QED. GAIN LEVEL IS SET TO 1/4 FROM MAXIMUM. ALL ACCORDING MANUAL.

CONNECTED MICROPHONE TO THE RECEIVER AND START MCACC AUTO CALIBRATION.

ALL SPEAKERS INCLUDING SUB WAS LOCATED CORRECT ( JUST FOR SUB DISTANCE WAS WRONG TO 15 CM, BUT THIS IS NOTHING).

AFTER FINISHING CALIBRATION TRY TO START PLAYING DVD FOR CHECKING.

ALL CHANNELS WORKED PERFECTLY, EXCEPT SUB. THERE IS NO SOUND AT ALL FROM IT.

AGAIN TRY TO RE CALIBRATE AND THE SAME RESULT. NO SOUND FROM SUB.TRY DIFFERENT MODERN DVD WITH GOOD SOUNDTRACK WITH GOOD LOW FREQUENCIES.
NOTHING.

TRY TO CHANGE SUBWOOFER CABLE - NO RESULT.

TRY TO CHECK IS THE SIGNAL GOING FROM RECEIVER TO SUB. IT SEEMS OK.
IN CUSTOM SET UP PUT THE SIGNAL TO SUB AND IT WAS BUZZ.
TRY TO TOUCH FINGER THE PLUG FROM CABLE - THE BUZZ IS PRESENCE.

SO NOW I KNOW, THAT SIGNALS IS PASSING TO SUB, BUT THERE IS NO SOUND
FROM THE SUB DURING PLAYING THE DVD.

OPEN GRILL AND TRY TO CATCH ANY MOVEMENT OF DIFFUSER - NO RESULT. DEAD.

THE GREEN LED IS LIGHTENING. AT FIRST GLANCE LOOK OK, BUT NO SOUND.

AFTERTHAT TRY TO PLAY THE SAME MOMENT FROM DVD WITH SWITCH ON AND
SWITCH OFF SUB FROM MAIN POWER SUPPLY.

NO DIFFERENCE.

WHAT CAN YOU SUGGEST TO CHECK MORE? I AM NOT BELIVE THAT THIS FUSE, BECAUSE THE TEST
TONE I HEAR FROM SUB.

BTW THE MCACC AFTER CALIBRATION SHOW FOLLOWING DATA: FRONTS AND CENTER ABOUT +4.5 DB, THE SUB -8.

PLEASE SUGGEST WHAT TO DO OR TO CHECK MORE.

TRY TO ROTATE GAIN ON SUBWOOFER TO 1/2 , BUT WITHOUT RESULT AS WELL.

THANKS BEFOREHAND AND SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH IF ANY.

Hey Tony...I just received my PB12 NSD and would like to hear your thoughts on it when you get it all set-up. I've done an initial set-up but want/need to do way more listening/tweaking. I'm not sure how I would describe my feelings now...kinda mixed.

This also goes for any other PB12 NSD folks out there.

What's the issue(s) you're having with the sub? What's your setup, room size, etc? I'm just curious to see how you have it set up and what is causing you to have mixed feelings. I should have some impressions by middle of next week.

@bykes;
If you're still reading this, once again we apologize about the delays and lack of communication. There is no excuse for the lack of communication; the only explanation we can give is that we were hesitant to send out an update when the situation kept changing. We kept having an imminent update on the near term horizon but the updates and hence the delivery date kept being pushed further and further. We don't want to be uncommunicative but at the same time we don't want to say 1 thing on Friday and then something else completely on Monday; so we kept waiting for the next update to get the definitive answer until it had gone longer than was acceptable. As I said that's no excuse for not keeping people in the loop but just a reason why it happened.

Luckily the amps are on a truck as we speak and we hope to get them early enough tomorrow to build and ship the backorders before the weekend. Having said that, with the delays we've seen so far we're not holding our breaths until the boxes are actually ON our dock. With our luck on these amps, customs will decide that very tiny illegal aliens are hiding in the boxes and delay the shipment for a week.

For the record the oldest order we had for the SB12-Plus that was either cancelled or not shipped yet was from 3/14. I'm guessing that bykes is including a little of the time he spent deciding on the sub he wanted in his 2-3 month wait. Plus I know that waiting for something you want always makes time feel like it's dragging on forever. :)

bykes if you do decide to get an SB12-Plus at some point in the future make sure to call in your order to the sales line and ask to speak to me and I'll make sure we take care of you.

Thanks Erik. Scary , I didn't realize you guys from SVS actually looked at these forums.

Back in February you guys had the SB 12+ Piano Black as not in stock and shipping in early March according to your web site. Not sure if that was a related issue or not. Thats why I said ive been waiting for 2 months.

Thank you very much for the update Erik!

btw, the order from the 14th was mine. ;) I've have spoken on phone with you a few times.

Just in case anyone missed this....

... Also, I will be giving away my PB12-Ultra/2 in the original Mercury Red.


GIVING AWAY an Ultra/2 ! :eek:

Man, to only live in AZ.


Tim

what? can i have your sub scraps :p



You call this a "scrap"? :^)

http://www.robbroy.net/images/HT/PB2-Ultra/PB2-Ultra08Small.jpg

Man, if I had the space, there's no way I'd part with this thing.

-Robb

You call this a "scrap"? :^)


well, if you're giving away "ultras" i cant imagine what your current sub is :D

well, if you're giving away "ultras" i cant imagine what your current sub is :D

One, and eventually two, of these: http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb13ultra.cfm

One, and eventually two, of these: http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb13ultra.cfm

cool! you getting rosenuts?

cool! you getting rosenuts?

As dirty as that sounds, yes. Here is the photo album of the MTS arrival, and then the Ultra 13 arrival. The second Ultra is not here yet.

http://picasaweb.google.com/robbroy/MTS_Arrival

-Robb

As dirty as that sounds, yes. Here is the photo album of the MTS arrival, and then the Ultra 13 arrival. The second Ultra is not here yet.

http://picasaweb.google.com/robbroy/MTS_Arrival

-Robb

Awesome pics; great slideshow. :)

As dirty as that sounds, yes. Here is the photo album of the MTS arrival, and then the Ultra 13 arrival. The second Ultra is not here yet.

http://picasaweb.google.com/robbroy/MTS_Arrival

-RobbLooking forward to your comments on all the new SVS stuff, as well as those from your GTG attendees. Will you have the second PB13 in time for the GTG?

Thanks Erik. Scary , I didn't realize you guys from SVS actually looked at these forums.

Back in February you guys had the SB 12+ Piano Black as not in stock and shipping in early March according to your web site. Not sure if that was a related issue or not. Thats why I said ive been waiting for 2 months.

Thank you very much for the update Erik!

btw, the order from the 14th was mine. ;) I've have spoken on phone with you a few times.

That delay in February was based on cabinets and unrelated to the current amp shortage. You just happened to get caught up in two back to back delays with your order.

Don't forget all of us at SVS were hobbyists long before we ever started SVS. You'll find us lurking around many forums. Granted I'm normally so busy with work that if I'm on forums at all anymore, I'm here looking at stuff for myself personally and not checking SVS threads (new receivers, PS3 stuff, etc) but every once in a while we remember to look in on SVS related threads. :)

@bykes;
If you're still reading this, once again we apologize about the delays and lack of communication. There is no excuse for the lack of communication; the only explanation we can give is that we were hesitant to send out an update when the situation kept changing. We kept having an imminent update on the near term horizon but the updates and hence the delivery date kept being pushed further and further. We don't want to be uncommunicative but at the same time we don't want to say 1 thing on Friday and then something else completely on Monday; so we kept waiting for the next update to get the definitive answer until it had gone longer than was acceptable. As I said that's no excuse for not keeping people in the loop but just a reason why it happened.

Luckily the amps are on a truck as we speak and we hope to get them early enough tomorrow to build and ship the backorders before the weekend. Having said that, with the delays we've seen so far we're not holding our breaths until the boxes are actually ON our dock. With our luck on these amps, customs will decide that very tiny illegal aliens are hiding in the boxes and delay the shipment for a week.

For the record the oldest order we had for the SB12-Plus that was either cancelled or not shipped yet was from 3/14. I'm guessing that bykes is including a little of the time he spent deciding on the sub he wanted in his 2-3 month wait. Plus I know that waiting for something you want always makes time feel like it's dragging on forever. :)

bykes if you do decide to get an SB12-Plus at some point in the future make sure to call in your order to the sales line and ask to speak to me and I'll make sure we take care of you.

So how long does it take to actually assemble these things once all the parts are in stock? I used to work in an AV repair shop back in the day and assembly and test time was only 5-10 min per unit. Granted, we never had more than 20 speakers to do at a time. I'm sure you guys have dozens. Either way, I'd imagine everyone would feel better if they knew SVS would work overtime to compensate for the backorder ;)

GOOD DAY

THIS IS MY FIRST POST HERE. MOSTLY READING, BUT NOW TIME TO ASK HELP.
IT SEEMS, THAT HAVE SOME PROBLEM WITH SUB
MY EQUIPMENT: PIONEER VSX VX5Ai RECEIVER, DV-989Ai - DVD PLAYER, 5 SCS-01(STANDARD) SYSTEM AND SB12-PLUS.

ALL CONNECTED ACCORDING MANUAL. THE RECEIVER WAS TO SET TO RESET, AFTERTHAT PUT THE FRONTS, CENTER, SURROUND TO 'SMALL', CUT FREQUENCY 80HZ.
DISABLE ALL EQUALIZATION ON RECEIVER. ALL LEVELS SET TO '0'.

RECEIVER IS CONNECTED TO DVD PLAYER VIA I-LINK.

ON SUBWOOFER INTERNAL CROSSOVER IS DISABLED. CONNECTED TO RECEIVER BY RCA-RCA.SUBWOOFER CABLE QED. GAIN LEVEL IS SET TO 1/4 FROM MAXIMUM. ALL ACCORDING MANUAL.

CONNECTED MICROPHONE TO THE RECEIVER AND START MCACC AUTO CALIBRATION.

ALL SPEAKERS INCLUDING SUB WAS LOCATED CORRECT ( JUST FOR SUB DISTANCE WAS WRONG TO 15 CM, BUT THIS IS NOTHING).

AFTER FINISHING CALIBRATION TRY TO START PLAYING DVD FOR CHECKING.

ALL CHANNELS WORKED PERFECTLY, EXCEPT SUB. THERE IS NO SOUND AT ALL FROM IT.

AGAIN TRY TO RE CALIBRATE AND THE SAME RESULT. NO SOUND FROM SUB.TRY DIFFERENT MODERN DVD WITH GOOD SOUNDTRACK WITH GOOD LOW FREQUENCIES.
NOTHING.

TRY TO CHANGE SUBWOOFER CABLE - NO RESULT.

TRY TO CHECK IS THE SIGNAL GOING FROM RECEIVER TO SUB. IT SEEMS OK.
IN CUSTOM SET UP PUT THE SIGNAL TO SUB AND IT WAS BUZZ.
TRY TO TOUCH FINGER THE PLUG FROM CABLE - THE BUZZ IS PRESENCE.

SO NOW I KNOW, THAT SIGNALS IS PASSING TO SUB, BUT THERE IS NO SOUND
FROM THE SUB DURING PLAYING THE DVD.

OPEN GRILL AND TRY TO CATCH ANY MOVEMENT OF DIFFUSER - NO RESULT. DEAD.

THE GREEN LED IS LIGHTENING. AT FIRST GLANCE LOOK OK, BUT NO SOUND.

AFTERTHAT TRY TO PLAY THE SAME MOMENT FROM DVD WITH SWITCH ON AND
SWITCH OFF SUB FROM MAIN POWER SUPPLY.

NO DIFFERENCE.

WHAT CAN YOU SUGGEST TO CHECK MORE? I AM NOT BELIVE THAT THIS FUSE, BECAUSE THE TEST
TONE I HEAR FROM SUB.

BTW THE MCACC AFTER CALIBRATION SHOW FOLLOWING DATA: FRONTS AND CENTER ABOUT +4.5 DB, THE SUB -8.

PLEASE SUGGEST WHAT TO DO OR TO CHECK MORE.

TRY TO ROTATE GAIN ON SUBWOOFER TO 1/2 , BUT WITHOUT RESULT AS WELL.

THANKS BEFOREHAND AND SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH IF ANY.

every time i recalibrate with my pioneer elite vsx 53 tx the sub level resets to -10db. But more importantly the sub limiter volume has to be reset. you know the one you have to turn up until your sub distorts. I beleive svs recomends you set it to max (eventhough mine is set to -22db) with the sub main turned all the way down to before you set it to prevent damage then set sub volume to calibrated specs
tell me if this takes care of your problem.

So how long does it take to actually assemble these things once all the parts are in stock? I used to work in an AV repair shop back in the day and assembly and test time was only 5-10 min per unit. Granted, we never had more than 20 speakers to do at a time. I'm sure you guys have dozens. Either way, I'd imagine everyone would feel better if they knew SVS would work overtime to compensate for the backorder ;)

It doesn't take long to physically build an SB12-Plus, since we've built all the 12.3 woofers already. But we do run all subs through a pretty extensive QA/QC check before packing them up, so it takes a while to do an entire run of SB12+ subs from raw materials to completed/packaged/ship-ready. Once those amps hit our loading docks, the Shop crew will ready to roll.

@bykes;


For the record the oldest order we had for the SB12-Plus that was either cancelled or not shipped yet was from 3/14. I'm guessing that bykes is including a little of the time he spent deciding on the sub he wanted in his 2-3 month wait. Plus I know that waiting for something you want always makes time feel like it's dragging on forever. :)

.

Hi Erik K!

Let just say I am really diggin' my Ultra! I felt the 3 month claim was perhaps an exaggeration.:) Two thumbs up re the customer service I got.

Awesome service and product. This PB13-Ultra is by far the best sub I've ever heard.

As dirty as that sounds, yes. Here is the photo album of the MTS arrival, and then the Ultra 13 arrival. The second Ultra is not here yet.

http://picasaweb.google.com/robbroy/MTS_Arrival

-Robb

nice!!

So how long does it take to actually assemble these things once all the parts are in stock? I used to work in an AV repair shop back in the day and assembly and test time was only 5-10 min per unit. Granted, we never had more than 20 speakers to do at a time. I'm sure you guys have dozens. Either way, I'd imagine everyone would feel better if they knew SVS would work overtime to compensate for the backorder ;)

apparently really fast, just got a shipping notice.

It doesn't take long to physically build an SB12-Plus, since we've built all the 12.3 woofers already. But we do run all subs through a pretty extensive QA/QC check before packing them up, so it takes a while to do an entire run of SB12+ subs from raw materials to completed/packaged/ship-ready. Once those amps hit our loading docks, the Shop crew will ready to roll.

what he said ^

oh bykes ... it's like digging for treasure but stopping a few inches from the treasure chest :)

nice!!

oh bykes ... it's like digging for treasure but stopping a few inches from the treasure chest :)

Yep. That is exactly right.

I know...I lose. :(

I know...I lose. :(

why? if you havent ordered something yet ... order now! :)

you actually haven't lost any days yet. the SB12's are just starting to ship.

why? if you havent ordered something yet ... order now! :)

you actually haven't lost any days yet. the SB12's are just starting to ship.


I did get something from a B&M store, but I'm not married to it. I can just return it. :) Ill think about it.

I did get something from a B&M store, but I'm not married to it. I can just return it. :) Ill think about it.

taken to pm

What's the issue(s) you're having with the sub? What's your setup, room size, etc? I'm just curious to see how you have it set up and what is causing you to have mixed feelings. I should have some impressions by middle of next week.

Tony...I think my initial impression were just that...initial. After a few more movies it's really growing on me. I think part of my mixed feelings was I didn't think it was outputting too much. I started with my gain set at 1/3 and it didn't seem to be too much bass. I have increased my gain to the 1/2 mark and now it's noticable....even at -10db from reference there is bass that can be felt.

I'm using this sub in my bedroom system. It's about 16x15 and I can feel the bass in the bed. I let my processor do the crossover so that is turned off. I left the phase switch just as it was when the sub arrived. The sub is located in the front corner kinda angled toward the bed

The sub (right now) is calibrated about 3-5db hotter than the speakers and in this system I usually watch movies anywhere between -5 to -10db from reference.

So still tweaking and listening and who knows if I'll change something else.

Let me know what you think and how you have yours set.

every time i recalibrate with my pioneer elite vsx 53 tx the sub level resets to -10db. But more importantly the sub limiter volume has to be reset. you know the one you have to turn up until your sub distorts. I beleive svs recomends you set it to max (eventhough mine is set to -22db) with the sub main turned all the way down to before you set it to prevent damage then set sub volume to calibrated specs
tell me if this takes care of your problem.

Thank you! Yesterday I found it by myself and now hear the sub and recalibrate it. But can't understand why MCACC doing this. Understood, that automatic calibration is like "plug & play" option. If so , then it should also produce the bass. Bass limiter in expert option of calibration. Anyaway thanks for your advise.

Tony...I think my initial impression were just that...initial. After a few more movies it's really growing on me. I think part of my mixed feelings was I didn't think it was outputting too much. I started with my gain set at 1/3 and it didn't seem to be too much bass. I have increased my gain to the 1/2 mark and now it's noticable....even at -10db from reference there is bass that can be felt.

I'm using this sub in my bedroom system. It's about 16x15 and I can feel the bass in the bed. I let my processor do the crossover so that is turned off. I left the phase switch just as it was when the sub arrived. The sub is located in the front corner kinda angled toward the bed

The sub (right now) is calibrated about 3-5db hotter than the speakers and in this system I usually watch movies anywhere between -5 to -10db from reference.

So still tweaking and listening and who knows if I'll change something else.

Let me know what you think and how you have yours set.

Nice, sounds like you're getting closer to being satisfied. I'm sure it'll take a little time & tweaking to get it just right from what I've been reading around here. I'm new to calibrating home theater equipment, so I'm curious to see what can be done to tweak the output, sound, etc.
You said you can feel it in your bed, is it slight or quite a bit? I'm curious as to the output this sub is going to deliver, and wondering how long it's going to be before my neighbors come knocking on my door :D

Nice, sounds like you're getting closer to being satisfied. I'm sure it'll take a little time & tweaking to get it just right from what I've been reading around here. I'm new to calibrating home theater equipment, so I'm curious to see what can be done to tweak the output, sound, etc.
You said you can feel it in your bed, is it slight or quite a bit? I'm curious as to the output this sub is going to deliver, and wondering how long it's going to be before my neighbors come knocking on my door :D

Yeah, I think I am getting closer and I think subs do take a little work to dial in. Now I will say that since this is my bedroom system, I'm not going to go all out with acoustics..etc. All the equipment is older stuff from my main theater that is now placed in my bedroom.

In terms of how much shake I can feel in the bed...it's tough to say...it's not slight nor is is aggressive but consider I just recently set the gain to 1/2 and since there have only watched 2 movies...both at -10db from reference so I'm thinking I could generate more shake but not sure it's needed here.

I think I had mixed feelings on this (initially) because in my main theater I have 2 Plus/2's and I tried not to but I did compare the NSD to them and that's not fair. Both Plus/2's have their gain set at 1/3 and it's a tremendous amount of pressure in there so I started the NSD at 1/3 and it wasn't even close but how can I compare 1 12" NSD @ 325 watts to 2 Plus/2's with 4 12" drivers (the new 12.3's in fact) and close to 2k watts...you can't.

So after clearing my head of that and increasing the NSD to 1/2 it's starting to get better and I can definately hear more bass and depending on the movie can feel it through my bed.

I'm still going to continue to tweak and see where I end up. Again, I believe listening habits are key here as well...like I said in this system I'm usually -5 to -10db from reference and probably won't go much higher...so I'll tune keeping that in mind. In my dedicated room I'm almost always right at reference or 1-3db lower.

By the way...did yours come yet?
Where will yours be used?

What's the best kind of cloth to clean Piano Gloss Black svs subs? We bought my parents a Samsung Plasma TV for Christmas and it came with a special rag to clean the frame with. Kind of feels velvet-ish?

I'm thinking a soft damp cloth but just want to know the best thing to avoid scratches. All my speakers are now gloss black and they do show every little thing but are beautiful.

Thanks in advance. :)

Is it Micro-Fiber? If so, should be fine...

What's the best kind of cloth to clean Piano Gloss Black svs subs? We bought my parents a Samsung Plasma TV for Christmas and it came with a special rag to clean the frame with. Kind of feels velvet-ish?

I'm thinking a soft damp cloth but just want to know the best thing to avoid scratches. All my speakers are now gloss black and they do show every little thing but are beautiful.

Thanks in advance. :)

As was already said its a micro fiber cloth most places that sell camera gear
have them use it and distilled water and its safe for any polished or treated
surface including the screen.

As was already said its a micro fiber cloth most places that sell camera gear
have them use it and distilled water and its safe for any polished or treated
surface including the screen.

Is it advisable to wet it with water for the TV screen or doesn't it matter?

thanks guys...I wasn't really needing to clean their screen though. :) I was using it as a reference for the laquer cabinet around the TV.

I'll look for a micro-fiber cloth to wipe the dust away from these gorgeous piano gloss black svs subs. :)

Thanks for the tip!

thanks guys...I wasn't really needing to clean their screen though. :) I was using it as a reference for the laquer cabinet around the TV.

I'll look for a micro-fiber cloth to wipe the dust away from these gorgeous piano gloss black svs subs. :)

Thanks for the tip!


Tim, I have 3 Piano Black subs, and as long as I have had them, I have always use a clean hand towel and got it completely wet with hot water and then wring it out, wipe down the subs external and then use a nice clean dry towel to wipe it off after... I have never had a scratch...

Just make sure you don't have debris in any of your towels..
I don't like to use any chemicals on that finish, so hot damp rag works awesome for me...

I really like the PB12-NSD for HT but not so much for music, I find it hard to get it to blend with the mains, just a little too punchy for my tastes. Some of the waveforms I have seen of the PB12, shows it to have a bit of a bump in the 40-60hz range and then levels off. I have found if I set the XO to 40hz, effectively reducing that bumped up range, allows the system to blend nicely. I like this sound much better for music. I then have to reset for HT to get that extra punch it has. If this was the only sub I could afford I would love it and make a few more adjustemnts here and there, but I can afford more so the PB13 Ultra is on order.

I had to move mine out of the corner with the help of an SPL meter for optimum location for flat response. Then I had to rely on the SPL meter to integrate the sub to a pair of RF-82 mains, (by ear, i was running about 4db too hot for music). I'm still running the sub about 1db hot, but thats more for personal taste than anything else. I have the sub level at the receiver dialed at about -2, and I bring it up to zero when I switch to HT applications, (gain at the sub is about the 10:30 position, (a little over 1/3) in a 2300^3 ft room with the sub about 10 ft from optimum listening position). I really like how the sub and mains integrate. You notice the sub at the very low end of frequencies, (when comparing with the LFR going to the mains), otherwise, it's like the sub is not even there. My philosophy is that for music, the sub should complement the mains... not color them. Even with the crossover set to 90hz, the low frequency image seems to emanate from the mains, not the sub. You do have to exercise a lot of care and patience, and it does take lots of time to get it right.

I just changed the position the sub was pointing and bumped the XO to 60 and now the sub is nearly seamless with the mains. I can't wait for the PB13 to show up so I can compare directly. As they say Location, location, location, it makes a difference.

So after clearing my head of that and increasing the NSD to 1/2 it's starting to get better and I can definately hear more bass and depending on the movie can feel it through my bed.

I'm still going to continue to tweak and see where I end up. Again, I believe listening habits are key here as well...like I said in this system I'm usually -5 to -10db from reference and probably won't go much higher...so I'll tune keeping that in mind. In my dedicated room I'm almost always right at reference or 1-3db lower.

By the way...did yours come yet?
Where will yours be used?

I'm anxiously awaiting its arrival today! :D I'll be using it in my living room as the main theater room. I'm using it with a pair of Klipsch RB-51's and an RC-52 center channel, and my old surrounds from a Klipsch ProMedia set I had to make up the 7.1. I'm really anxious to hear a 7.1 system with some good Blu-Ray movies and of course some Rainbow Six Vegas 2 action ;)

Thanks Warpdrv! :)

Got my PB-12NSD in yesterday! Got it all hooked up along with the new Klipsch RB-51's & an RC-52, and man does it sound good! I had to play with the sub for a little while, but finally got it to start sounding pretty good at half volume (room is approximately 4,000 cubic feet). I want to crank it more but fear I'll be tossed out of my townhouse lol. I'm ordering a long sub cable today so that I can experiment with room placement as it's currently only a few feet from the TV at the moment and not in a corner.
Definitely impressed with it so far! It hits clean and clear, not muddy at all, and can keep up with some pretty quick bass passages. 300 sounded awesome!

I'm hearing of a very favorable comparison between the new PB12-NSD and the old Ultra 12.

Got my PB-12NSD in yesterday! Got it all hooked up along with the new Klipsch RB-51's & an RC-52, and man does it sound good! I had to play with the sub for a little while, but finally got it to start sounding pretty good at half volume (room is approximately 4,000 cubic feet). I want to crank it more but fear I'll be tossed out of my townhouse lol. I'm ordering a long sub cable today so that I can experiment with room placement as it's currently only a few feet from the TV at the moment and not in a corner.
Definitely impressed with it so far! It hits clean and clear, not muddy at all, and can keep up with some pretty quick bass passages. 300 sounded awesome!


Glad to hear that you are happy with your NSD. I am growing more and more happy everyday.

I'm hearing of a very favorable comparison between the new PB12-NSD and the old Ultra 12.Wonder where that comes from ;)

It's from someone's opinion that we usually all trust. ;)

My philosophy is that for music, the sub should complement the mains... not color them. Even with the crossover set to 90hz, the low frequency image seems to emanate from the mains, not the sub. You do have to exercise a lot of care and patience, and it does take lots of time to get it right.

nice philosophy

Hey All,

I just got a new PB12-NSD last week, and I'm having somewhat mixed feelings about it right now.

First off, I've got to say this is a pretty big room.... a living room. It's 7425 cubic feet, and it's unavoidably open to damn-near the rest of the house.

Also, I've got an old Onkyo TX-DS676 receiver... which apparently doesn't have "proper" bass management capabilities. I can set speakers to small or large... but there's no crossover on the sub output, so I've got to use the crossover on the sub.

I spent some time tuning SPL levels using Avia II... and tried to blend the sub with my fronts (Paradigm Monitor 7) and found that the system sounded "just allright" for movies and unimpressive for music. I made a disc full of audio tracks with bass that I enjoy, and it just didn't sound that good. Such as:

The Crystal Method - PHD
The Prodigy - Poison
Outkast - Rosa Parks
Outkast - The Way You Move
etc...

Then I tried to deploy Room Eq Wizard to do some sweeps, and found that when I tuned the sub to be flat with the fronts, I wasn't that impressed at all. For the particular music that I listen to, I found that I had to run maybe 6db higher on the sub in order to say "yeah, there's the feeling I was looking for".

But even then I didn't feel like the bass was as well-defined as my factory car stereo for these tracks. To elaborate, the track PHD is really neat because it's got some very nice low bass notes... not just a boom boom boom, but very specific low-end notes. In my car I find that I can hear each frequency in the low notes, they are specific and detailed... but in my home theater it just doesn't sound the same.

So I feel kind stuck. I don't know if my receiver is holding me back, or if this just isn't the sub for me, or if the room is horrible, or if I just have no idea how those songs should *really* sound.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Bob

Bob, could you post your REW results here? That can tell us a lot.

7400 cubic ft room and a PB12 - NSD? You just didn't buy enough subs or a big enough sub depending on how you look at it. I am not sure 2 PB12s would be enough for that much volume. I think you need that monster eD sub, what was it, the A7-900(?) or a 2 smaller ones possibly dual PB13-ultras would do the trick.

Your room is huge and you can't pressurize it properly with that lone PB12-NSD.

I'd be glad to post the results, thanks mojomike.

jakewash, man, do I really need to buy a ridiculously-large sub to have "good" results? It was never clear to me what I'd be giving up by having the sub in such a big room.

Unfortunately, the design committee (her) isn't likely to approve anything bigger... and the accounting department (me) isn't likely to approve much more budget for this project :)

Also, I've got an old Onkyo TX-DS676 receiver... which apparently doesn't have "proper" bass management capabilities. I can set speakers to small or large... but there's no crossover on the sub output, so I've got to use the crossover on the sub.

It could be that you are experiencing cancellation when using the built-in low pass filter on the NSD. If the Onkyo has a "small" setting then it will high-pass the speakers but you say that there is no variable high-pass filter in the AVR ?

That is strange. If the receiver has a "small/large" function then it must have a built-in crossover but it's possible that they don't specify at what point high-passing occurs.

Otherwise, do you have DRC mode engaged or not ? Sometimes it's known as "midnight" mode but it's better known as dynamic range compression or control, as some people like to call it. If enabled, this will cripple system dynamics substantially and deep bass output will be severely lacking.

Make sure to turn this feature off in your receiver as well as in your dvd player. Have you checked to make sure that the subwoofer is working in-phase ? I'm sure we will find the problem soon.

--Regards,

Hey All,

I just got a new PB12-NSD last week, and I'm having somewhat mixed feelings about it right now.

First off, I've got to say this is a pretty big room.... a living room. It's 7425 cubic feet, and it's unavoidably open to damn-near the rest of the house.

Also, I've got an old Onkyo TX-DS676 receiver... which apparently doesn't have "proper" bass management capabilities. I can set speakers to small or large... but there's no crossover on the sub output, so I've got to use the crossover on the sub.

I spent some time tuning SPL levels using Avia II... and tried to blend the sub with my fronts (Paradigm Monitor 7) and found that the system sounded "just allright" for movies and unimpressive for music. I made a disc full of audio tracks with bass that I enjoy, and it just didn't sound that good. Such as:

The Crystal Method - PHD
The Prodigy - Poison
Outkast - Rosa Parks
Outkast - The Way You Move
etc...

Then I tried to deploy Room Eq Wizard to do some sweeps, and found that when I tuned the sub to be flat with the fronts, I wasn't that impressed at all. For the particular music that I listen to, I found that I had to run maybe 6db higher on the sub in order to say "yeah, there's the feeling I was looking for".

But even then I didn't feel like the bass was as well-defined as my factory car stereo for these tracks. To elaborate, the track PHD is really neat because it's got some very nice low bass notes... not just a boom boom boom, but very specific low-end notes. In my car I find that I can hear each frequency in the low notes, they are specific and detailed... but in my home theater it just doesn't sound the same.

So I feel kind stuck. I don't know if my receiver is holding me back, or if this just isn't the sub for me, or if the room is horrible, or if I just have no idea how those songs should *really* sound.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Bob

Bob

7425^3 ft of space is a huge amount of space for a single PB12 NSD, specially if it opens to adjacent rooms. Unless you are using it near field, it is going to struggle to give you decent bass performance. Your car stereo woofers may be very small, (in fact, extremely small when compared to the 12" driver on the sub), but it is only having to service a very small and limited area of space in your car cab. In terms of power, most any sub comparable to the PB12 NSD's is going to struggle.

Regarding the Onkyo 676 subwoofer "pre-out", here's what Onkyo tech support said:

"I checked with our technicians and the sub pre out doesn't have a crossover available. They recommended using the crossover on your sub."

So then I assume that I'll want to try a new receiver... though I was planning on it anway (Likely an Onkyo 705 or Yamaha 663).

Here's the REW graph I got after day 1 of tuning:

107684

I'm anxiously awaiting its arrival today! :D I'll be using it in my living room as the main theater room. I'm using it with a pair of Klipsch RB-51's and an RC-52 center channel, and my old surrounds from a Klipsch ProMedia set I had to make up the 7.1. I'm really anxious to hear a 7.1 system with some good Blu-Ray movies and of course some Rainbow Six Vegas 2 action ;)

Tony

Keep in mind that the RB Reference series and the satellite speakers from the Promedia are totally difference animals. The RB-51 are bonifide bookshelves which should service a decent size room. The satellites from a Promedia set are only designed to operate near field, (within around 3-5 ft of the listener). I've seen people use them in a medium size room with decent performance, but they were intended primarily for near field multimedia use. And the RB-51 will probably overwhelm them... even is a smallish room.

"I checked with our technicians and the sub pre out doesn't have a crossover available. They recommended using the crossover on your sub."

That doesn't make sense to me. If the receiver had no crossover then what is the point of offering a "small/large" function which is a fundamental requirement of bass management ? So the option to high-pass is there but it isn't really there. :rolleyes:

I wish I could have spoken to these technicians. Maybe Sivie (our bass management scientist) can expound on this.

--Regards,

That doesn't make sense to me. If the receiver had no crossover then what is the point of offering a "small/large" function which is a fundamental requirement of bass management ? So the option to high-pass is there but it isn't really there. :rolleyes:

I wish I could have spoken to these technicians. Maybe Sivie (our bass management scientist) can expound on this.

--Regards,

Well, might it be that the fronts are high-passed but the sub isn't low-passed? I was pretty disappointed to find this out... :/

Bob

7425^3 ft of space is a huge amount of space for a single PB12 NSD, specially if it opens to adjacent rooms. Unless you are using it near field, it is going to struggle to give you decent bass performance. Your car stereo woofers may be very small, (in fact, extremely small when compared to the 12" driver on the sub), but it is only having to service a very small and limited area of space in your car cab. In terms of power, most any sub comparable to the PB12 NSD's is going to struggle.


Awww, man! So if I want to stick to a $800 budget, and not have an ugly sub, and I can't change the room... does that mean that I'm always going to be underwhelmed due to my room size? What a bummer! :(

Well, might it be that the fronts are high-passed but the sub isn't low-passed? I was pretty disappointed to find this out... :/

Not really, no. If the speakers are high-passed then a low-pass is required to effectively cross over. If the receiver sends all the bass information to the black void of the abyss then there is slight design flaw I think. :)

If you set the speakers to small or large, which setting gives you the flattest response according to REW ? Did you check to see if "DRC" is enabled or not ? Have you calibrated the subwoofer yet ?

--Regards,

The Onkyo Owner's Manual is just about useless. I have had Onkyo before and they still write manuals for idiots, or idiots write the manuals. They don't even explain what some of the settings do, they just show you how to set them.

You are correct, there is no reference to a cross over. What would you expect from an audio company that puts this statement in their manual:

Subwoofer
To get the highest bass effect, place a subwoofer.
You can place your subwoofer anywhere in your room because the
placement affects very little the perceived sound.

I ordered two plain black SB12's Wednesday night, it's now Saturday, and I haven't received shipping notice either. Their web site still says "Ships next business day". Guess not!
They arrived today (7 business days to ship). So far I'm really enjoying them.

Tony

Keep in mind that the RB Reference series and the satellite speakers from the Promedia are totally difference animals. The RB-51 are bonifide bookshelves which should service a decent size room. The satellites from a Promedia set are only designed to operate near field, (within around 3-5 ft of the listener). I've seen people use them in a medium size room with decent performance, but they were intended primarily for near field multimedia use. And the RB-51 will probably overwhelm them... even is a smallish room.

Thanks for that info. I kinda had that feeling beforehand, but unfortunately budget restraints are holding me back from getting the matching Reference surrounds for a little while. Luckily for me, I'm only about 6-8 feet away from the Promedia surrounds at the moment, and while I can definitely tell they are weaker I can still enjoy the surround to a decent degree. :)

Well, I joined the SVS ranks today. I ordered a B-stock PB-10 this afternoon. It should be here by the middle of next week. I had researched and researched for months and kept coming back to SVS. While the PB-10 is probably a little small for my large room, it is bound to beat the pants off the Onkyo HTIB sub I will be replacing. I went with the PB-10 primarily because of size. In my current room I just can't fit anything wider than 15-17 inches. The PB-12 would be far better, but it is too wide and won't pass WAF. I'll report back when it arrives.

Congrats Theo-Prof. :)

Keep us in the loop on how you like it...

Hello!

After spending a few weeks grumbling, pondering, fretting and grumbling to myself some more (much to my wife's bemusement), I ordered the PB10 last week and it arrived today afternoon.

I'm currently a grad student renting an apartment away from home and wanted to spend under $1000 to get a decent, realistic and spatially motivating system - so the PB-10 joins:

Polk R150 (front)
JBL Venue Monitors (surround)
Polk CS1 (center)
Yamaha HTR-6030 (receiver)

...in a listening area roughly 12' long by 15' wide, open on one side to a study area (not that there will be much 'studying' going on now :P).

That speaker combo + receiver sounds great for under $1000.

The PB10 is undoubtedly the star of the show - WOW is all I can say... will report further after I play around with it some more. Hell, I haven't even calibrated it yet and it sounds awesome :D

Congrats, bondizi. The PB10 is a great sub at its price and can certainly be considered a "real" subwoofer. It digs deep, has decent output, and is very linear. I'm sure you'll enjoy yours as I enjoy mine. :)

I've been looking into SVS subs now for a week or so. Never really thought I needed one though, still don't actually. I've had the Klipsch Reference Series set-up for a while now and I actually love them. While it may not be the most glamorous set-up, for me, they're great. Good blend of theater and music (my style at least). So within the mains of the Klipsch I've got 4 8" guys firing at me - I've always thought that adding a sub would be over kill. Am I wrong? I'm upgrading my Reciever to the new Onkyo 606 from my Yamaha RXV-1000 for the HDMI inputs. I don't have a huge budget and was looking at either the PB10-NSD or the 25-31PCi - is there a major advantage of one over the other? Also, how much does placement come into play?

I've been looking into SVS subs now for a week or so. Never really thought I needed one though, still don't actually. I've had the Klipsch Reference Series set-up for a while now and I actually love them. While it may not be the most glamorous set-up, for me, they're great. Good blend of theater and music (my style at least). So within the mains of the Klipsch I've got 4 8" guys firing at me - I've always thought that adding a sub would be over kill. Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. For movies in particular, you will have no idea of what you are missing until you add the sub or listen to a system with a good sub that is set up well.

I'm upgrading my Reciever to the new Onkyo 606 from my Yamaha RXV-1000 for the HDMI inputs. I don't have a huge budget and was looking at either the PB10-NSD or the 25-31PCi - is there a major advantage of one over the other? Also, how much does placement come into play?

Either of those subs can do a great job, but they are a little different. The PCi has an advantage in output, but the PB10 will play a little deeper due to it's tuning.

Placement as well as calibration and set up can be very important.

Yes, you are wrong. For movies in particular, you will have no idea of what you are missing until you add the sub or listen to a system with a good sub that is set up well.



Either of those subs can do a great job, but they are a little different. The PCi has an advantage in output, but the PB10 will play a little deeper due to it's tuning.

Placement as well as calibration and set up can be very important.

Thanks so much for the reply.....I appreciate it. Any advice in terms of placement?

That's hard to say without knowing more about your room. The best location is often found by trial-and-error once you get the sub. To really know what the best location is, you would need to take frequency response measurement with the sub hooked up and initially calibrated. Personally, I like my sub or subs up front and close to the mains, but many others are pleased with the results from a variety of different locations including having the sub behind or along side of the listening position. Experimentation is good.

That's hard to say without knowing more about your room. The best location is often found by trial-and-error once you get the sub. To really know what the best location is, you would need to take frequency response measurement with the sub hooked up and initially calibrated. Personally, I like my sub or subs up front and close to the mains, but many others are pleased with the results from a variety of different locations including having the sub behind or along side of the listening position. Experimentation is good.

I was afraid that was going to be the answer.....my room is jacked - probably about 14 feet deep however it's got vaulted ceilings that bleed right into the dining room that opens up to about 25 foot ceilings that has a loft over looking........it's a weird layout....

I've been looking into SVS subs now for a week or so. Never really thought I needed one though, still don't actually. I've had the Klipsch Reference Series set-up for a while now and I actually love them. While it may not be the most glamorous set-up, for me, they're great. Good blend of theater and music (my style at least). So within the mains of the Klipsch I've got 4 8" guys firing at me - I've always thought that adding a sub would be over kill. Am I wrong? I'm upgrading my Reciever to the new Onkyo 606 from my Yamaha RXV-1000 for the HDMI inputs. I don't have a huge budget and was looking at either the PB10-NSD or the 25-31PCi - is there a major advantage of one over the other? Also, how much does placement come into play?

grassfeeder

As a means of feedback and a point of reference, my mains are a pair of Klipsch RF-82, (Reference IV). They are part of a modified RF-82 package, (with a RC-62 and a pair of RB-61 for back speakers), that I have set up in a room of about 2300^3 ft. For music, I love my RF-82. A sweet sound all around in the space in which they are located when they are in strictly a 2.0 setup, (without the benefit of a sub). Now... as good as those 8" woofers are in conveying the lower octaves relevant to music, even for music they are not in the same class as a dedicated low frequency driver with it's own power source that is built for the express purpose of conveying the lower frequencies. For one thing, running a pair of floor standing speakers, even one with the efficiency of the RF82, in full range where you are trying to convey the lower frequencies at the same linear output of the other drivers puts a heavy burden on your average AVR. And this affects the overall sound quality of the speakers as a whole. If you have an AVR with lots of clean power and overhead, you can greatly minimize this issue. If not, you are making compromises in the sound quality of your mains. This is specially true if you like to listen to music at relatively higher volume levels. Another thing is that in 2.0 mode, you are asking those 8" drivers to convey a relatively wide range of frequencies, all at the same time. They are certainly going to do so fairly well, but they are going to be going through some very active and at times intense excursions to do so, and your sound is not going to be clean at certain frequencies. And finally, (IMO and this is to my ear's perception), those 8" drivers simply can not convey the same timbre, dynamics, and impact at those lower frequencies that a dedicated 10" or 12" driver can for music applications. Again, they most certainly are capable of reaching the lower boundaries of the frequency range for which they are designed, and do so very well within their engineered limits... but they do not sound the same at those lower frequencies than a dedicated well built low frequency driver in a well built enclosure with the proper internal volume does. It is far better, IMO, to mate those speakers with a dedicated sub for the lower frequencies in a 2.1 configuration, and let the 8" drivers on your mains take care of the upper mids, mids, and lower mids, free of the constraint of having to deal with the lower frequencies as well. Again, this is just MO.

HT, (movies), is another matter altogether. In these days, a sub is almost a necessity, specially if you want to experience the full "theatrical sound in your home" sound. The sound content engineered in most movies these days pretty much demands it.

WolfsBane - Thank You!! Vrey well said and I cam clearly see what you're saying and agree!! I aprpeciate you taking the time to type that out!!

My new dual SVS PC13-Ultra with old dual M&K MX-350

:):):)

so excited i just placed the order for my new SVS-Pci 20-39. can't wait to get it.

also the rest of mny speakers should be in shortly.
Fronts: Paradigm Titan Monitors
Surrounds: haven't picked em out yet either Mini monitors or the Adp-390's
Center: cc-190 paradigm.

and the svs to top it off

all powered by a denon 2808, with a mitsu 65" DLP.

almost finished, think i am more excited for the sub than anything else

so excited i just placed the order for my new SVS-Pci 20-39. can't wait to get it.

also the rest of mny speakers should be in shortly.
Fronts: Paradigm Titan Monitors
Surrounds: haven't picked em out yet either Mini monitors or the Adp-390's
Center: cc-190 paradigm.

and the svs to top it off

all powered by a denon 2808, with a mitsu 65" DLP.

almost finished, think i am more excited for the sub than anything else

You're going to be a happy movie watcher!

You're going to be a happy movie watcher!

yea i think so, my former HTIB was a 400 dollar sony system i picked up from walmart on clearance 3 years ago for 150 bucks.

it worked great for my bedroom while i was a poor college student, but i just bought a house, and i'm all by myself right now. No WAF yet, so i gotta get this stuff taken care of now :D

i just bought a house, and i'm all by myself right now. No WAF yet, so i gotta get this stuff taken care of now :D

I'm in the same boat and doing the same exact thing!! :D:D:D

My sweetheart and I came to a compromise when it came to the sound system for our home. Yes, WAF was a factor in the decision, (as well as space constraints, sound, and budget). It came down to personal preference, (based on past experience). I tend to prefer forward firing subs that integrate with my speaker systems for music first and HT second, always have. In my mind, if the integration for music is good, the HT part will take care of itself. For me, the PB12 NSD was a logical choice.

Well, I joined the SVS ranks today. I ordered a B-stock PB-10 this afternoon. It should be here by the middle of next week. I had researched and researched for months and kept coming back to SVS. While the PB-10 is probably a little small for my large room, it is bound to beat the pants off the Onkyo HTIB sub I will be replacing. I went with the PB-10 primarily because of size. In my current room I just can't fit anything wider than 15-17 inches. The PB-12 would be far better, but it is too wide and won't pass WAF. I'll report back when it arrives.

Well, here is the update after receiving my PB-10 yesterday afternoon. To cut to the chase, all I can say is WOW!

Set-up was simple. The size of the PB-10 was perfect, even though it looks larger than I expected in the room. Since I do not have an SPL meter, I put on some jazz (Peter Cincotti) to try to balance the sub with the rest of the system. I kept having to turn down the sub output from the receiver to get things to blend well (I went from +1 to -5). This sub is much more powerful, and clean, than what it replaces. I put in some DVDs with good LFE to see how it did for HT. Frodo's heartbeat at Mt. Doom in "Return of the King" was probably the most significant improvement that I noticed. My old sub could pick up the higher frequency sounds, but the ultra-low undercurrent was completely absent. With the PB-10 the whole room vibrated, and there was a distinct sense of the room being pressurized. My room is large, 3500^3 ft+ and it opens directly onto the kitchen. Despite this, I was very impressed with the performance of the PB-10 in this room.

I will need to get an SPL meter to get things perfect, but for now I can definitely say that the PB-10 was a good choice--a decent size front-fire, front-port design that works well in my room.