Well, here is the update after receiving my PB-10 yesterday afternoon. To cut to the chase, all I can say is WOW!

Set-up was simple. The size of the PB-10 was perfect, even though it looks larger than I expected in the room. Since I do not have an SPL meter, I put on some jazz (Peter Cincotti) to try to balance the sub with the rest of the system. I kept having to turn down the sub output from the receiver to get things to blend well (I went from +1 to -5). This sub is much more powerful, and clean, than what it replaces. I put in some DVDs with good LFE to see how it did for HT. Frodo's heartbeat at Mt. Doom in "Return of the King" was probably the most significant improvement that I noticed. My old sub could pick up the higher frequency sounds, but the ultra-low undercurrent was comletely absent. With the PB-10 the whole room vibrated, and there was a distinct sense of the room being pressurized. My room is large, 3500^3 ft+ and it opens directly onto the kitchen. Despite this, I was very impressed with the performance of the PB-10 in this room.

I will need to get an SPL meter to get things perfect, but for now I can definitely say that the PB-10 was a good choice--a decent size front-fire, front-port design that works well in my room.

Wow, a single PB10 in a 3500 cubic foot room that opens into another? That little guy has his work cut out for him! It's great to read your impressions, though. I had very similar thoughts when I upgraded to a PB10. Quite a potent "budget" sub, isn't it? :D Enjoy, and post some more impressions when you've had a chance to demo more material.

Wow, a single PB10 in a 3500 cubic foot room that opens into another? That little guy has his work cut out for him! It's great to read your impressions, though. I had very similar thoughts when I upgraded to a PB10. Quite a potent "budget" sub, isn't it? :D Enjoy, and post some more impressions when you've had a chance to demo more material.

My room is big, but there is also a 4.5 ft.-high kitchen "bar-wall" that fills 80% of the width of the opening to the kitchen. I think that this really helps to keep the sound in the family room.

Another listening impression--last night I played a portion of a BBC mystery that has a dramatic pipe organ section (2 channel stereo). I was dissappointed with what I heard from the PB-10. About two months ago I had a Velodyne VX-10 that I found on sale, but only kept it for a few days (it would not go low enough). The Velodyne was very clean on this section and really gave the impression that I was in a cathedral. Last night, what I heard, if I had to describe it, sounded like a lawn mower--rat-tat-tat-tat-tat on the lowest portion. But the rat-tat-tat was not low-pitched, it seemed to be a higher "pitched" sound. I did not have things turned up high enough to bottom the driver (which would be a "clack" and which I have heard is almost impossible with this particular sub anyway), but I wondered if something else is going on. I even wondered if what I was hearing was the actual organ-pipe reed, if I can describe it that way, vibrating. To be honest, It has been a while since I heard a really good pipe organ in person, so I can't remember if this sound would normally be present in pipe organ music. Either way, it was not present (that I could tell) in either of the other two subs I have had in this room. (Is this the amp clipping? I don't think I have ever heard a sub-amp clip before so I would not know.) Maybe someone who is more of an expert on pipe organ music could clear this up for me.

I finished my dedicated theater about 2 months ago. Granted it took me about 8 months to finish it, with having a 6 year old and a two year old, work, new house, grass to cut, wife... you know all that life stuff that gets in the way of me working on my theater. So anyway I looked around for subs just like everyone on this thread and decided on SVS.. Well in a way I'm glad it took me so long to finish, I picked up an SB12-plus/2 piano black when they were blowing them out. All I can say is, my 20ft x 14ft 8 seat 110 inch screen, 2100 cubic foot room is pressurized by this thing... and I just love it. I usually show off the picture and sound with the blu-ray version of Pearl Harbor, the battle scene... it's like 20 min. of pure WOW!!!! The explosion of the Arizona is my favorite, It just slams you in the chest and the whole room is moving.. it is such a cool experience. I also have the SVS SCS-01m's up front and the SBS-01's for surround duty in a 7.1 setup. I can't say enough about how great they sound and feel. I have my sub set for 16hz and was watching Live Free or Die Hard, when the bad guy was shooting at the kid and John in the apartment.. I could feel every time the rifle took a shot.. constant little hits.. it was so cool....:D Not to mention the Fighter jet scene, that was so cool too... here are some pics

My room is big, but there is also a 4.5 ft.-high kitchen "bar-wall" that fills 80% of the width of the opening to the kitchen. I think that this really helps to keep the sound in the family room.

Another listening impression--last night I played a portion of a BBC mystery that has a dramatic pipe organ section (2 channel stereo). I was dissappointed with what I heard from the PB-10. About two months ago I had a Velodyne VX-10 that I found on sale, but only kept it for a few days (it would not go low enough). The Velodyne was very clean on this section and really gave the impression that I was in a cathedral. Last night, what I heard, if I had to describe it, sounded like a lawn mower--rat-tat-tat-tat-tat on the lowest portion. But the rat-tat-tat was not low-pitched, it seemed to be a higher "pitched" sound. I did not have things turned up high enough to bottom the driver (which would be a "clack" and which I have heard is almost impossible with this particular sub anyway), but I wondered if something else is going on. I even wondered if what I was hearing was the actual organ-pipe reed, if I can describe it that way, vibrating. To be honest, It has been a while since I heard a really good pipe organ in person, so I can't remember if this sound would normally be present in pipe organ music. Either way, it was not present (that I could tell) in either of the other two subs I have had in this room. (Is this the amp clipping? I don't think I have ever heard a sub-amp clip before so I would not know.) Maybe someone who is more of an expert on pipe organ music could clear this up for me.

This sound is probably port chuffing. The port will handle the vast majority of output on a 32' pipe note (~16-17 Hz). The woofer cannot be bottomed on a note at this frequency because the port is damping woofer motion.

If the subwoofer is played too loud on a 16-17 Hz passage - especially one without much masking noise in the upper bass registers - the port will audibly chuff because the air velocity moving back/forth in the port is too high and this causes audible turbulence. Turning down the volume should reduce the chuffing, although if there is little masking content, it may require a reduction of several dB to reduce the chuffing to acceptable levels.

Make a note of the master volume setting where the chuffing stops being obviously audible. If that setting is inconsistent with your preferred playback level, adding a 2nd PB10-NSD will allow the pair to play 6 dB louder than a single subwoofer before encountering the same level of audible artifacts.

About two months ago I had a Velodyne VX-10 that I found on sale, but only kept it for a few days (it would not go low enough). The Velodyne was very clean on this section and really gave the impression that I was in a cathedral.

Ed explained the why of the PB10 making chuffing sounds...the VX10 and many other subs, just don't address those deep responses though it's a great sounding little sub.

This sound is probably port chuffing. The port will handle the vast majority of output on a 32' pipe note (~16-17 Hz). The woofer cannot be bottomed on a note at this frequency because the port is damping woofer motion.

If the subwoofer is played too loud on a 16-17 Hz passage - especially one without much masking noise in the upper bass registers - the port will audibly chuff because the air velocity moving back/forth in the port is too high and this causes audible turbulence. Turning down the volume should reduce the chuffing, although if there is little masking content, it may require a reduction of several dB to reduce the chuffing to acceptable levels.

Make a note of the master volume setting where the chuffing stops being obviously audible. If that setting is inconsistent with your preferred playback level, adding a 2nd PB10-NSD will allow the pair to play 6 dB louder than a single subwoofer before encountering the same level of audible artifacts.

Thanks for the answer. I will try reducing the volume. I DID send an e-mail to an organist friend of mise to ask about this as well. I will check back again when I hear from him.

I have a 5,000 cubic foot room, and I'm looking for a sub in the $500-700 range. It will be primarily used for movies/tv and some music (probably 80% movies/tv however). My mains are Polk RTi A7's.

Is the PB12-NSD enough sub for a 5,000 square foot room? How would the PB12 compare to something like a Polk PSW 505 (which has a 16" driver)? If the PB12 isn't enough, any suggestions in that price range or am I going to have to blow my budget?

I have a 5,000 cubic foot room, and I'm looking for a sub in the $500-700 range. It will be primarily used for movies/tv and some music (probably 80% movies/tv however). My mains are Polk RTi A7's.

Is the PB12-NSD enough sub for a 5,000 square foot room? How would the PB12 compare to something like a Polk PSW 505 (which has a 16" driver)? If the PB12 isn't enough, any suggestions in that price range or am I going to have to blow my budget?For $700 I think I'd look at Epik Caliber, AV123 MFW-15, or one of the Elemental Designs subs along with the SVS offerings.

I have a 5,000 cubic foot room, and I'm looking for a sub in the $500-700 range. It will be primarily used for movies/tv and some music (probably 80% movies/tv however). My mains are Polk RTi A7's.

Is the PB12-NSD enough sub for a 5,000 square foot room? How would the PB12 compare to something like a Polk PSW 505 (which has a 16" driver)? If the PB12 isn't enough, any suggestions in that price range or am I going to have to blow my budget?

All depends on how much bass you want and how loud you play your sources. I have a PB12-NSD in a 4,200 cu.ft. (approx) room that opens up to the kitchen & dining room. It sounds great, I have it set to about 2/3 level on the sub. Granted I don't crank my material due to living in a townhouse, but watching Oceans 13 when the "earthquake" began it really rumbled the room :)

5000 square foot room? i'd say nearfield placement of sub(s) is the best bet.

This sound is probably port chuffing. The port will handle the vast majority of output on a 32' pipe note (~16-17 Hz). The woofer cannot be bottomed on a note at this frequency because the port is damping woofer motion.

If the subwoofer is played too loud on a 16-17 Hz passage - especially one without much masking noise in the upper bass registers - the port will audibly chuff because the air velocity moving back/forth in the port is too high and this causes audible turbulence. Turning down the volume should reduce the chuffing, although if there is little masking content, it may require a reduction of several dB to reduce the chuffing to acceptable levels.

Make a note of the master volume setting where the chuffing stops being obviously audible. If that setting is inconsistent with your preferred playback level, adding a 2nd PB10-NSD will allow the pair to play 6 dB louder than a single subwoofer before encountering the same level of audible artifacts.

I tried the pipe organ section again last night, with the gain where it was and then lowered significantly. The sound was there regardless. I would have to say the sound was a lower-pitched B-D-D-D-D-D-D rather than a rat-tat-tat as I described yesterday. I did some experimentation. With the grill removed, I placed a couple of fingers in the port to guage airflow from the port. The driver was barely moving and there was hardly ANY air flowing from the port. I then loosely placed my whole hand over the port, and only then could I really feel any air moving. Later, I played an Edgar Meyer CD with some low, bowed, base notes. I heard a somewhat similar B-D-D-D-D sound, but this was clearly recognizable as the sound of the bow moving across the string. I think the sound that I am hearing from the pipe organ section is something in the actual recording, perhaps pressure waves across the pipe opening or something like that. I guess I have to attribute all this to a much cleaner sounding sub than what I had. My previous sub was pretty muddy in its sound quality and would have masked these sounds.

I'm excited......I just placed an order for a PB12-NSD. I was originally planning on picking up the PB10-NSD however for not much more I thought I'd step it up and get a move flexible subwoofer that I think will fit my current and potential future needs. I would hope that a good sounding, quality sub is something I should only have to buy once.....

I'm looking to match it to the following system.....

Klipsch RF-3 mains --- RC-3 II center channel --- RS-3 II rear surrounds

I've currently got an older RXV-1000 Yamaha that I'll be replacing with the new Onkyo 606 once released as well as adding a PS3 for blu-ray.......I'm currently using, and really enjoy actually, my Samsung 5687 1080p DLP set to view everything on.

I'm really hoping I made the right decision on this sub to match well with the rest of my gear so I can enjoy a nice movie experience, yet have it still suited well or music and TV.....

Any opinions on possible set-up I may want to pay attention to?

I tried the pipe organ section again last night, with the gain where it was and then lowered significantly. The sound was there regardless. I would have to say the sound was a lower-pitched B-D-D-D-D-D-D rather than a rat-tat-tat as I described yesterday. I did some experimentation. With the grill removed, I placed a couple of fingers in the port to guage airflow from the port. The driver was barely moving and there was hardly ANY air flowing from the port. I then loosely placed my whole hand over the port, and only then could I really feel any air moving. Later, I played an Edgar Meyer CD with some low, bowed, base notes. I heard a somewhat similar B-D-D-D-D sound, but this was clearly recognizable as the sound of the bow moving across the string. I think the sound that I am hearing from the pipe organ section is something in the actual recording, perhaps pressure waves across the pipe opening or something like that. I guess I have to attribute all this to a much cleaner sounding sub than what I had. My previous sub was pretty muddy in its sound quality and would have masked these sounds.

I spoke with my friend who is an organist on the faculty of the school where I teach and he said that what I heard was normal. He told me that organ pipes are of two basic varieties, "flue" pipes and "reed" pipes. He said that with a 32' reed stop in the pedal, it is normal to hear the sound of the reed vibrating. So, I guess that my new PB-10 is just that good, that I am now hearing details that I never heard before.

I spoke with my friend who is an organist on the faculty of the school where I teach and he said that what I heard was normal. He told me that organ pipes are of two basic varieties, "flue" pipes and "reed" pipes. He said that with a 32' reed stop in the pedal, it is normal to hear the sound of the reed vibrating. So, I guess that my new PB-10 is just that good, that I am now hearing details that I never heard before.

The only thing cooler than SVS customer service jumping in to help you out (suggesting "chuffing" earlier) is that the problem with the sub is that it is "too good"! :D

I'm excited......I just placed an order for a PB12-NSD. I was originally planning on picking up the PB10-NSD however for not much more I thought I'd step it up and get a move flexible subwoofer that I think will fit my current and potential future needs. I would hope that a good sounding, quality sub is something I should only have to buy once.....

I'm looking to match it to the following system.....

Klipsch RF-3 mains --- RC-3 II center channel --- RS-3 II rear surrounds

I've currently got an older RXV-1000 Yamaha that I'll be replacing with the new Onkyo 606 once released as well as adding a PS3 for blu-ray.......I'm currently using, and really enjoy actually, my Samsung 5687 1080p DLP set to view everything on.

I'm really hoping I made the right decision on this sub to match well with the rest of my gear so I can enjoy a nice movie experience, yet have it still suited well or music and TV.....

Any opinions on possible set-up I may want to pay attention to?

Trying to calibrate your speakers by ear is not a good idea IMO. Therefor, a meter, such as Radio Shack's SPL meter and a DVD that can enable you to calibrate your audio and video levels, (such as AVIA), is crucial. The sub's placement in your listening room is also critical. It will determine how deep or how linear it will go. Corner placement is not always the ideal placement, specially if you are integrating them to your mains for music applications. Room gain tends to create a bump at around the 50Hz mark or so, depending on various factors, (dimensions, openings, room treatment, etc). You will find compensation tables at the top of the subwoofer section in this site to compensate for the meter's decreasing sensibilities at the lower frequencies. If you are going to do a frequency sweep, make sure you apply these values. Finally, trust the meter. On those lower frequencies, our ears are not very sensitive and tend to "hear" an apparent lack of bass to start when the system is calibrated correctly. I recommend that you level your sub to your mains with an SPL meter first, and then make very minute adjustments to the sub sound level for personal taste. As an initial point of reference, and a starting point, in a room of roughly 2300^3 ft, my sub's gain is at just before the 11oclock position, and the sub level on my AVR is at -2. I use to have it at about -5, but I found out that the auto on feature of the sub is not as sensitive at that AVR sound level.

For music, remember... the sub is supposed to complement your mains. Not color them, and not introduce low frequency content unless it is supposed to be there. A good sub, (and the PB12 NSD is a very good sub for the price), should NEVER put in sound material that is not supposed to be there. If your sub runs too hot for music, you will know... the bloat in your music at the lower frequencies will become apparent.

Trying to calibrate your speakers by ear is not a good idea IMO. Therefor, a meter, such as Radio Shack's SPL meter and a DVD that can enable you to calibrate your audio and video levels, (such as AVIA), is crucial. The sub's placement in your listening room is also critical. It will determine how deep or how linear it will go. Corner placement is not always the ideal placement, specially if you are integrating them to your mains for music applications. Room gain tends to create a bump at around the 50Hz mark or so, depending on various factors, (dimensions, openings, room treatment, etc). You will find compensation tables at the top of the subwoofer section in this site to compensate for the meter's decreasing sensibilities at the lower frequencies. If you are going to do a frequency sweep, make sure you apply these values. Finally, trust the meter. On those lower frequencies, our ears are not very sensitive and tend to "hear" an apparent lack of bass to start when the system is calibrated correctly. I recommend that you level your sub to your mains with an SPL meter first, and then make very minute adjustments to the sub sound level for personal taste. As an initial point of reference, and a starting point, in a room of roughly 2300^3 ft, my sub's gain is at just before the 11oclock position, and the sub level on my AVR is at -2. I use to have it at about -5, but I found out that the auto on feature of the sub is not as sensitive at that AVR sound level.

For music, remember... the sub is supposed to complement your mains. Not color them, and not introduce low frequency content unless it is supposed to be there. A good sub, (and the PB12 NSD is a very good sub for the price), should NEVER put in sound material that is not supposed to be there. If your sub runs too hot for music, you will know... the bloat in your music at the lower frequencies will become apparent.

Good read...I've never really owned a quality sub. Thanks for the tips.

Hi,

My experience is with a A7-450 that cost me $1,700 delivered.I paid it since March...
Elemental Designs does not have type of customer service as SVS,HSU,Outlaw, etc. companies I have dealt with.... I can assure you that...
I will put this in every forum I can, so overseas people know what can be expected...
I do understand your point, and you are correct. Will explain mine now so everyone knows:


That sucks, sorry to hear about your experience! You should probably post this at its own thread and not in this one, since it's not really relevant to this conversation regarding SVS subs. Good luck though, hopefully you'll get it resolved soon! Makes me happy I chose SVS over ED.

That sucks, sorry to hear about your experience! You should probably post this at its own thread and not in this one, since it's not really relevant to this conversation regarding SVS subs. Good luck though, hopefully you'll get it resolved soon! Makes me happy I chose SVS over ED.

He did and MANY MANY other threads that weren't relevant. I was feeling bad when I read at first but after the multiple x multiple post in threads that has nothing to do with ED nor his situation I'm doubting his validity.

He did and MANY MANY other threads that weren't relevant. I was feeling bad when I read at first but after the multiple x multiple post in threads that has nothing to do with ED nor his situation I'm doubting his validity.

Gotcha, I didn't check if he posted it as its own. I hear ya, it's ridiculous to post it all over a forum. That's not going to solve anything.

Gotcha, I didn't check if he posted it as its own. I hear ya, it's ridiculous to post it all over a forum. That's not going to solve anything.

Oh well, it's deleted from all the threads now, now we're the only ones looking nutts responding to post that aren't there lol.

Hey All,

I just got a new PB12-NSD last week, and I'm having somewhat mixed feelings about it right now.

First off, I've got to say this is a pretty big room.... a living room. It's 7425 cubic feet, and it's unavoidably open to damn-near the rest of the house.

Also, I've got an old Onkyo TX-DS676 receiver... which apparently doesn't have "proper" bass management capabilities. I can set speakers to small or large... but there's no crossover on the sub output, so I've got to use the crossover on the sub.

I spent some time tuning SPL levels using Avia II... and tried to blend the sub with my fronts (Paradigm Monitor 7) and found that the system sounded "just allright" for movies and unimpressive for music. I made a disc full of audio tracks with bass that I enjoy, and it just didn't sound that good. Such as:

The Crystal Method - PHD
The Prodigy - Poison
Outkast - Rosa Parks
Outkast - The Way You Move
etc...

Then I tried to deploy Room Eq Wizard to do some sweeps, and found that when I tuned the sub to be flat with the fronts, I wasn't that impressed at all. For the particular music that I listen to, I found that I had to run maybe 6db higher on the sub in order to say "yeah, there's the feeling I was looking for".

But even then I didn't feel like the bass was as well-defined as my factory car stereo for these tracks. To elaborate, the track PHD is really neat because it's got some very nice low bass notes... not just a boom boom boom, but very specific low-end notes. In my car I find that I can hear each frequency in the low notes, they are specific and detailed... but in my home theater it just doesn't sound the same.

So I feel kind stuck. I don't know if my receiver is holding me back, or if this just isn't the sub for me, or if the room is horrible, or if I just have no idea how those songs should *really* sound.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Bob


I thought I'd post a follow-up here, for the record.

I've spent some time tuning the sub, moving it around the room, listening to a lot of material, and tuning my expectations.

Perhaps the sub is "breaking in"... or my ears are learning to appreciate what I'm hearing... but I'm starting to become quite pleased with the PB12-NSD.

I ended up moving the sub to fire towards a corner, and turned the gain down a bit... and now I'm getting pretty nice output with movies, with no distortion that I can hear.

Very bass-y music still sounds... different... than I expect sometimes. But I'm beginning to think that my car stereo might be over-doing the bass sometimes... and that my PB12-NSD is doing a better job of playing the music as it was intended to be played.

So... I'm liking the sub more the more I learn about how to tune it. Thank the maker for avsforum and hometheatershack! :)

Torsion, glad you like the PB12-NSD. A 7000+ cubic foot room is absolute huge, and would optimally require at least two PB12's (maybe more) in order to really give bass that will blow you away. Still, it's great to hear that a single PB12 is able to hold its own. The fact that it can even fill such a large room at all is impressive :).

BTW, I totally understand about bass heavy music (or movies) sounding very different once you get a good sub. Instead of bloated, unbalanced, overemphasized bass, you start hearing things the way they were recorded. At first it's disappointing (most people are suckers for bass - just look at how many people use the "bass boost" setting in their cheap consumer audio equipment), but as you've already noticed, over time you really start to get an appreciation for bass accuracy over sheer quantity. Keep on experimenting, and whatever you do, have fun!

Well, I rented WOTW this weekend to see how my new PB-10 sounds. (I don't own this movie becasue I can't stand Tom Cruise, but the bass in it IS amazing) The amount of excursion this driver has is really impressive. At one point I pulled off the grill to watch the driver and a puff of air coming out of the port startled me so much that I almost fell over backwards. Despite the fact that my room is pretty large (@3400^3 ft), the PB-10 really belted out the LFE. At one point I left the room while the machines emerge scene was playing and a spare pair of eyeglasses that I keep in the bedroom was "walking" across the dresser and almost fell on the floor (said bedroom is through the wall facing the back of the subwoofer).

Needless to say I am very pleased with the PB-10. Would a larger sub, such as the PB-12 be better in this room?--yes I think it would. Would it pass WAF?--that would be a stretch, size wise. Besides, it really would not fit the space I have for a subwoofer. So, I will just keep on enjoying the PB-10.

Well, I rented WOTW this weekend to see how my new PB-10 sounds. (I don't own this movie becasue I can't stand Tom Cruise, but the bass in it IS amazing) The amount of excursion this driver has is really impressive. At one point I pulled off the grill to watch the driver and a puff of air coming out of the port startled me so much that I almost fell over backwards. Despite the fact that my room is pretty large (@3400^3 ft), the PB-10 really belted out the LFE. At one point I left the room while the machines emerge scene was playing and a spare pair of eyeglasses that I keep in the bedroom was "walking" across the dresser and almost fell on the floor (said bedroom is through the wall facing the back of the subwoofer).


That awesome that the PB10 is holding its own in that size of a room! My room is a little bigger than yours so I opted for the PB12, but I am curious to see how it will handle WOTW. Like you, I can't stand Tom Cruise and didn't care much for the movie but am anxious to hear the bass! It's amazing how much more enjoyable a really good sub makes your home theater experience :D

yay i just finished setting up my PCi 20-39

holy freakin cow is it big. give me a couple of days to twiddle with it. but it seems to me i may need a second one;)

The sound was there regardless. I would have to say the sound was a lower-pitched B-D-D-D-D-D-D rather than a rat-tat-tat as I described yesterday.

Sounds like you're feeling the infrasonics and maybe hearing some of it too (some people can hear a bit below 20Hz). The PB10-NSD is a very capable little sub.

here are some pics i took this evening.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/pjgamber/SBaBTr63fzI/AAAAAAAABXk/IVoU250RoLI/DSC00343.JPG?imgmax=512
here she is freshly arrived
http://lh5.ggpht.com/pjgamber/SBaBT763f0I/AAAAAAAABXs/sG7amko-G-c/DSC00344.JPG?imgmax=512
what she is replacing
http://lh6.ggpht.com/pjgamber/SBaBUL63f2I/AAAAAAAABX8/RToCdkUpQaA/DSC00346.JPG?imgmax=512
here's my setup

surrounds should be in this week, along with setting the "real" speaker stands instead of my barstools

have some serious cable managment to do :(

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/superribbit/SVS/CIMG1843.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/superribbit/SVS/IMG_7861.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/superribbit/SVS/IMG_7867.jpg

Ok, what's the deal...are you opening a Philippine franchise? :)

Sounds like you're feeling the infrasonics and maybe hearing some of it too (some people can hear a bit below 20Hz). The PB10-NSD is a very capable little sub.

I've thought about this since I posted the first comments about what I heard and I have listened to this organ section over again several times. I had previously read many times that "most" people cannot hear much of anything below 20Hz, so I thought that this B-D-D-D sound must have been a problem with the sub or something wrong with the recording. Since my previous posts, I am almost convinced that I am just hearing the individual cycles of this note, the waves of sound are just far enough apart that I do not hear it as a continuous note.

Ok, what's the deal...are you opening a Philippine franchise? :)Looks like Ribbit is the Filipino version of TheEAR, but with pictures to prove it.:D

Looks like Ribbit is the Filipino version of TheEAR, but with pictures to prove it.:D

Yeah, it's about once a month now that we see a new addition. I think he keeps breaking them :p.

Ok, what's the deal...are you opening a Philippine franchise? :)

i hope so! but no, i haven't even listened to these guys yet. i was impressed with the Ultra's overall build quality and performance that I had to check out the entry levels ... (that's the story i told the wife)

Looks like Ribbit is the Filipino version of TheEAR, but with pictures to prove it.:D

... now the real story ...

i'm choosing between mikesub and theNose ... can't decide yet. ;):p

seriously though, i have reasons for these subs:
PB12NSD, if this is good enough, i can use these for stereo subs and save a lot of cash than using dual ultras for stereo.

25-31 PCi, i was looking at the build quality of the cylinders in case i wanted an ultra cylinder ... honestly i thought this would be louder than the PB12NSD due to its higher tuning. it seems i hit the order button too soon. Ed M said the PB12NSD beats all the PCi subs (or matches them)

PB10NSD, well this IS the entry level SVS sub - oh, this one looks like a paperweight ... wow! a sub i can lift and move around easy!

SB12 (incoming), i've always wanted to buy a small sealed sub - up to a few months ago was about to order an SPL1200R til the local importer increased the price within a week of giving me a quote. (i would still have bought it if the price increase wasn't 90% :eek: wth )

My SVS's have a new home

behind screen (http://picasaweb.google.com/jestadt/08MovingStuffToNewHT/photo#5194382268078652066)

view from in front (http://picasaweb.google.com/jestadt/08MovingStuffToNewHT/photo#5194382156409502210)

Ok, yesterday I bought the Radio Shack analogue SPL meter and played the test tones from my Onkyo AVR. According to the meter, I had my new PB-10 set way too LOW! I had the gain on the sub set at 11 o'clock and the AVR set at -5 dB. This seemed to be the best balance when playing music (jazz, classical, and pipe organ) when I was trying to balance things by ear. Using the meter I had to turn it up to + 3 dB on the AVR to match the output of the other speakers at my normal seating position. My issue is that now music sounds pretty bottom heavy to me ears (but boy does the pipe organ fill the house with sound now).

Another thing--my fronts, center, and surrounds, which I had balanced by ear before I got the SPL meter, were all perfectly in balance when reading the test tones with the meter (within about 1/2 Db). Do I believe the meter and just get used to even more bass than I was enjoying?--(Yippee!) or am I doing something wrong. For instance, would the pink noise coming form the sub be so low in frequency that I am getting into the non-flat response area of the meter such that I need to compensate? Would something like Avia be a better way of balancing my speakers?

By the way, I know that if my readings are right I ought to increase the gain on the sub and reduce it on the AVR, instead of going with +3 on the AVR. But I just wanted to see if I am doing something wrong. Also, as a reminder, this is a roughly 3400^3 ft room that opens on one end to the kitchen, so it may be that the readings are correct given that the PB-10 is a little on the small side for this room.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/comments.

Not to say that your readings are necessarily wrong, but I would calibrate your system using a RS SPL meter AND a source for tones such as AVIA. I have found that the tones that are supplied by my AVR provides a totally different setting than those supplied by AVIA, and I have found the tones on the AVIA disc to be far more accurate to calibrate all your speakers properly, and I don't just mean the sub, but your satellite speakers as well. I think it has something to do with the sound path, and in the case of the sub level, the way that the low frequencies from all your separate speakers are routed to the sub. I would also check for phase and proper location for your sub to avoid dips or bloats are certain frequencies. In my case, I found that when the sub was calibrated using the RS SPL meter and tones from the AVIA disk, that the level of the sub seemed, (initially), to be somewhat flat or lacking compared to the mains.

Having said this, I do believe that both your gain and your level at the AVR are going to be up a bit. You're right... that is a LOT of space for a PB10.

so how is everyones svs handling cloverfield?

i ran into some audible distortion with my pb-12nsd in the beginning scene where there is a bunch of very low notes and not much else from the other channels...it turned out my lfe trim was at +2 but it still was little dissapointing to hear because the master volume was only at -19...

i am now considering adding a second pb12 or one of the cylinder subs....

Not to say that your readings are necessarily wrong, but I would calibrate your system using a RS SPL meter AND a source for tones such as AVIA. I have found that the tones that are supplied by my AVR provides a totally different setting than those supplied by AVIA, and I have found the tones on the AVIA disc to be far more accurate to calibrate all your speakers properly, and I don't just mean the sub, but your satellite speakers as well. I think it has something to do with the sound path, and in the case of the sub level, the way that the low frequencies from all your separate speakers are routed to the sub. I would also check for phase and proper location for your sub to avoid dips or bloats are certain frequencies. In my case, I found that when the sub was calibrated using the RS SPL meter and tones from the AVIA disk, that the level of the sub seemed, (initially), to be somewhat flat or lacking compared to the mains.

Having said this, I do believe that both your gain and your level at the AVR are going to be up a bit. You're right... that is a LOT of space for a PB10.

I re-ran the test tones with the gain on the sub set to 12 o'clock and ended up with the AVR set at -3 dB. This should be better since I will be sending less distortion to the sub amp. I also think that I will borrow the AVIA disk from a neighbor who has it and do the calibration again, checking the whole signal path this time to see what happens. Yes, I am asking a lot from the PB-10 in this room, but it is working like a champ nonetheless.

so how is everyones svs handling cloverfield?

i ran into some audible distortion with my pb-12nsd in the beginning scene where there is a bunch of very low notes and not much else from the other channels...it turned out my lfe trim was at +2 but it still was little dissapointing to hear because the master volume was only at -19...

i am now considering adding a second pb12 or one of the cylinder subs....


Drew - please contact Tech Support for guidance on proper set-up and calibration of the PB12-NSD. The subwoofer channel level and the master volume settings when viewed in isolation don't provide enough information to determine your subwoofer calibration level. Thanks. :)

so how is everyones svs handling cloverfield?

i ran into some audible distortion with my pb-12nsd in the beginning scene where there is a bunch of very low notes and not much else from the other channels...it turned out my lfe trim was at +2 but it still was little disappointing to hear because the master volume was only at -19...

i am now considering adding a second pb12 or one of the cylinder subs....You are in good company. Some that have the JLA F113 are reporting the same issue in the F113 thread. This is Pulse revisited.

Drew - please contact Tech Support for guidance on proper set-up and calibration of the PB12-NSD. The subwoofer channel level and the master volume settings when viewed in isolation don't provide enough information to determine your subwoofer calibration level. Thanks. :)

Hi Ed,

Well I did decide to actually read the manual that came with the sub:p, got the RS SPL meter, and calibrated the system. It seems like I just really need more headroom for my taste. I like a lot of bass.

Which of your cylinder subs would perfectly match up with the PB-12NSD? I don't have room for two 12nsds but i could tuck the cylinder back in the corner by the TV...

thx

this is where the pb-12nsd is:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h91/mpower035/IMG_0773.jpg

and this is the corner where i want to add the svs cylinder sub. the H/K sub currently there is not turned on.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h91/mpower035/IMG_0797.jpg

After 2 years of watching, reading and lurking I took the plunge yesterday. I ordered a B-stock PB12-Plus (Maple). After somewhat compromising on my other speakers (DefTech Mythos one's fronts, Mythos eight cc and bipolar inwall surrounds), I told my wife the subwoofer needs to be BIG ! The Maple finish helped alot. I will probably ask you veterans for some advice once I receive it.

Congratulations Jim! I have a PB12/Plus 2 and absolutely love it! It was the best purchase that I have ever made for my home theater.

Enjoy!

Mitch

Same here. I'm planning to add an ultra 13 to ht system.


Congratulations Jim! I have a PB12/Plus 2 and absolutely love it! It was the best purchase that I have ever made for my home theater.

Enjoy!

Mitch

Hi Ed,

Well I did decide to actually read the manual that came with the sub:p, got the RS SPL meter, and calibrated the system. It seems like I just really need more headroom for my taste. I like a lot of bass.

Which of your cylinder subs would perfectly match up with the PB-12NSD? I don't have room for two 12nsds but i could tuck the cylinder back in the corner by the TV...

thx

this is where the pb-12nsd is:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h91/mpower035/IMG_0773.jpg

and this is the corner where i want to add the svs cylinder sub. the H/K sub currently there is not turned on.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h91/mpower035/IMG_0797.jpg

The 20-39 PCi is the closest cylinder subwoofer to the PB12-NSD. You'll need to use the variable phase on one of the subwoofers to get them in synch because they will be some distance apart. That corner is indeed a good spot for a cylinder subwoofer. I can help you integrate and calibrate both subs - just contact me in Tech Support.

I think the virtues of the PB10-NSD have been proven quite convincingly. But here
is another one that I ran across
http://torontohifi.com/review59.php

MY ultra13 arrived DOA. Has the green power light on, but no bass. My Velodyne sub plays fine from the same exact cable, so i know it is the sub. Any suggestions or is this gonna have to be shipped back? Man, I do not wanna repack this thing. Still waiting to hear from SVS........

Still waiting to hear from SVS........

Maybe you will hear faster since you posted in three different threads. :rolleyes:

MY ultra13 arrived DOA. Has the green power light on, but no bass. My Velodyne sub plays fine from the same exact cable, so i know it is the sub. Any suggestions or is this gonna have to be shipped back? Man, I do not wanna repack this thing. Still waiting to hear from SVS........Make sure you're plugged into the input side, not the output. I did that myself once.

Maybe you will hear faster since you posted in three different threads. :rolleyes:

well maybe if they had someone you could talk to i wouldn't have a huge box and a 150 lb subwoofer in the middle of my living room. but thanks for your concern

no i plugged into the input

I'm sorry your having troubles, that is very unusual... I have yet to get a bad sub from them, and I'm on my 3rd...

Did you email them yet..?

I'll also email and point them here to this thread... Someone will be back with you quickly, they answered my emails within a couple of hours, and that was on Christmas day... Hang in there buddy...

Especially since I steered you to it... I sent out an email toward this thread


*****Edit*****

Guess I didn't see he already got help from SVS in the other thread... :)

well maybe if they had someone you could talk to i wouldn't have a huge box and a 150 lb subwoofer in the middle of my living room. but thanks for your concern

I doubt you'd find a much better company than SVS in regards to Customer Service. They handled my issue on a Sunday evening over email...I'm sure they'll be glad to assist you.

xjaguar23, you're putting it into the input side on the sub, are you putting it on the correct out port on your receiver? I have an Integra receiver, and I plugged the RCA into the input on the receiver, not the output, so I felt mighty stupid after that :P Just trying to cover all the bases here...

xjaguar23, you're putting it into the input side on the sub, are you putting it on the correct out port on your receiver? I have an Integra receiver, and I plugged the RCA into the input on the receiver, not the output, so I felt mighty stupid after that :P Just trying to cover all the bases here...

He said he switched back to his old sub using the same interconnect and the old sub worked fine. He shouldn't have to make any changes at the receiver I wouldn't think other than calibrations. He's probably just got a DOA driver. He could take the driver out and do the battery test to confirm the driver is bad. Could also confirm any loose connection.

He said he switched back to his old sub using the same interconnect and the old sub worked fine. He shouldn't have to make any changes at the receiver I wouldn't think other than calibrations. He's probably just got a DOA driver. He could take the driver out and do the battery test to confirm the driver is bad. Could also confirm any loose connection.

Taking the driver out is the worst advice I have ever read on any forum anywhere. It's a brand new unit.

To the OP:

Check your crossover and gain setings on the back of the sub. It's highly doubtful that your sub is DOA.

Yes, do not take the woofer out even if you are curious about that test. There was a post or two from Ed Mullen about the difficulty of removing the woofer because it weighs so much, and you might damage the finish on the sub attempting to remove it.

first off, like Ron Temple ... i've plugged into the output side of the Ultra amp and wondered why there was no sound.

if that's not the case, the battery test can still be done without taking out the "ultra" (no pun intended) heavy driver. since he's supposed to take out the amp anyway. he can remove the amp, test the battery with the leads from the amp.

they said it is more than likely a dead amp. went through everything with me, and it is obviously something with the sub. sending me a new amp for me to replace. much better than repacking/shipping this monster. SVS handled everything great, was worried when I first called and got their initial email the tech guy, but it was better than I could have ever expected. SVS=A+

got their initial email the tech guy,

that's only because THE tech guy is Ed Mullen

that's only because THE tech guy is Ed Mullen

Yeah good luck finding a better tech guy then Ed Mullen...

Great guy, and brilliant ta boot.... :)

hey warp, got your PR finally the other day :) thanks! safe and sound.

Awesome buddy... I'm glad it came to you safely... Long journey...

It is packaged pretty well... They are nice PR's aren't they...
I would have needed 4 of them to do the build I wanted.


BTW, I love the pics of your boy in the Spiderman outfit... He's freakin awesome...

You guys look like your just havin a ball with him... thats so cool... Mines 17 already...

Life, doesn't it go by in a blink !! :) Treasure every moment !!

Watched Cloverfield on my system a couple of days ago. The bass content on my PB12 NSD put a big smile on my face, starting with the opening credits.

That has to be the biggest freaking baby since Gorgo.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/superribbit/SVS/IMG_8012.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/superribbit/SVS/IMG_8019.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/superribbit/SVS/IMG_8024.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/superribbit/SVS/IMG_8026.jpg
even the wife says its cute!

The day has finally come!

I received my 20-39pci today and I love the way it looks...I think it is way sexier than a box. My first impression with the sub gain at 11 o'clock and the receiver at +3db is that the system needs to be turned up REALLY loud before I can begin to really feel the bass...louder than is comfortable to listen to. Is it safe to turn the gain past say 12 o'clock if I want the bass to be more powerful than my speakers? Not sure if I am asking the question correctly, I guess my question is how hot is too hot with the sub compared to the rest of the system?

I haven't had a PCi, but I did have a 20-39+. Set the gain at 9:00 and the AVR MV at -5 (calibrated to reference at -5) and the sub channel gain at -9. It made a lot of bass at these settings. It was placed in a large open space, but I had it about 6' from the LP.

Yeah see the only calibration I have done is with Audessey. I did some manual stuff today based on what I've read here in the forums. XO at 80hz, speakers to small etc... I really can't listen to anything louder than 15 MV or it's painful. I'm not sure how to change the sub volume other than adding DBs in the manual setup. Receiver is a Denon 2808. I know this sub will put out great bass, it's getting everything set up that's the challenge!

Browse THIS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1030440) thread. This is from someone that had an SVS sub for 4 years and was never happy with the output levels. He finally disabled Audessey and everything started to perform as expected. Don't know what it is, but Audessey doesn't seen to be a good fix. At least not the version built in to AVRs.

In the thread I linked to, you will also see a lot of set up tips.

The day has finally come!

I received my 20-39pci today and I love the way it looks...I think it is way sexier than a box. My first impression with the sub gain at 11 o'clock and the receiver at +3db is that the system needs to be turned up REALLY loud before I can begin to really feel the bass...louder than is comfortable to listen to. Is it safe to turn the gain past say 12 o'clock if I want the bass to be more powerful than my speakers? Not sure if I am asking the question correctly, I guess my question is how hot is too hot with the sub compared to the rest of the system?

I put the gain on mine at 3/4 of the way up (don't know what that is in "o'clock" terms) as the manual said, to get a better signal with less distortion. From there, you adjust the receiver's subwoofer volume. As long as that setting is anywhere from -5 to 0 when level balanced with the other speakers, it should be fine. It sounds like you could turn the sub gain on yours up and the receiver level down.

Interesting. In the post from Ed Mullen he says to turn off or say no to LFE+Mains...I thought I read you are supposed to keep that on. In any event, I got home from work today and I'm watching TV and feeling like the sub is too hot. So I think my original question answered itself...I need to turn it down instead of up!

Just sitting here thinking, what could I ask that I've never seen asked before....


Which port of the 3 ports is the best port to block if your are going to block a port?

the one closest to the amp
the one farthest from amp
the middle distant one

There have been a significant amounts of input regarding calibration using Audessey, and for the most part my impression is that folks are not particularly happy with it. I believe that a SPL meter and AVIA disk is the best way to ensure the system is calibrated correctly. I know I get a wide variance in calibration when I use the tones on my AVR as opposed to using the tones provided in the AVIA disk, and I find the tones on the disk far more accurate.

Interesting. In the post from Ed Mullen he says to turn off or say no to LFE+Mains...I thought I read you are supposed to keep that on. In any event, I got home from work today and I'm watching TV and feeling like the sub is too hot. So I think my original question answered itself...I need to turn it down instead of up!

LFE+Mains does have it's applications, depending on what type of AVR and speakers you have and what are their capabilities. The initial idea was to send the LFR to the mains, and just send the LFE to the sub. But with cross overs being what they are, you still get a significant amount of other frequencies, besides the intended ones, that wander to other channels. It's amazing the amount of low frequency content that goes to your speakers, even with the settings at the AVR set to "SMALL".

If your speakers and sub are capable, the best thing to do is to set your AVR to manage all frequencies by setting all speakers to "SMALL", and your LFE setting to "Subwoofer". You would be amazed how much better your speakers sound when they are free of having to manage those low frequencies linearly, specially at high levels. And rely on an SPL meter and calibration disk to properly calibrate your sub.

Interesting. In the post from Ed Mullen he says to turn off or say no to LFE+Mains...I thought I read you are supposed to keep that on. In any event, I got home from work today and I'm watching TV and feeling like the sub is too hot. So I think my original question answered itself...I need to turn it down instead of up!

I have gone to an LFE+Main setup to compensate for a big null spot I have in my room at 50-60 Hz.

I'm very happy with the sound.

Just sitting here thinking, what could I ask that I've never seen asked before....


Which port of the 3 ports is the best port to block if your are going to block a port?

the one closest to the amp
the one farthest from amp
the middle distant one

Not sure, doubt it matter much. I went with the middle for aesthetic reasons.

Hey guys,
Just wanted to chime in on my shopping experinces so far.

I was pretty much decided on HSU 2.3 for my 2400 cu/ft room when I began a dialog with Alex from SVS. I looked at eD too but can't get over the finish.

So now I am steering toward a PC 20-39 plus, I have to tweak my budget higher but that's ok. At first I wasn't even considering a cylinder, but given the fact that the cylinder will fit better in my corner is key.

I have to wait a bit longer as I have to close the gap on the cost difference, but I think I will be very satisfied with this sub.

I'll keep you all posted.
Thanks.

Watched LOTR trillogy over the long weekend. I'm really enjoying my PB-10. Even in my large room I am constantly impressed with the performance of the PB-10.

Quick question. I just purchased the 20-39 pci for my living room which is 12'Wx15'Lx7.5'H. I'm wondering if I made the right decision or should I have saved some more and gone with the plus? I really want to feel the bass and rumbles in movies but not sure if it's going to be what I'm expecting. I've never owned a sub before and the only ones I've heard are the ones in movie theaters and the HT section at BB and CC. I think the rooms sound good at those places but kind of muddy. But I can't feel it.

Quick question. I just purchased the 20-39 pci for my living room which is 12'Wx15'Lx7.5'H. I'm wondering if I made the right decision or should I have saved some more and gone with the plus? I really want to feel the bass and rumbles in movies but not sure if it's going to be what I'm expecting. I've never owned a sub before and the only ones I've heard are the ones in movie theaters and the HT section at BB and CC. I think the rooms sound good at those places but kind of muddy. But I can't feel it.

Depends how loud you like to listen. For normal to relatively loud listening, a 20-39 PCi should be great for that relatively small room. You will definitely feel the bass, assuming it's set up properly.

That said, if you like it really loud, you might consider adding a second sub. I added a second PB10-NSD in an 11x10x8 room, because the single sub lost dynamics when I listened really loud.

Overall, don't worry about it. I think that sub will be great for you. Unless you really want to crank your movies and music, it should more than suffice. You can always add a second down the road if you feel that you need even more bass (which is what I did). However, as I mentioned before, you should definitely "feel" the bass with a 20-39 PCi. It should be a totally different experience from the Best Buy setups you've heard. It might not actually sound quite as loud, because it won't be so bloated and boomy in the mid/upper bass. The 20-39 PCi knows how to be subtle when it needs to be, but when it's called on to shake your room, it can most certainly do that too :D. Enjoy your sub.

Watched LOTR trillogy over the long weekend. I'm really enjoying my PB-10. Even in my large room I am constantly impressed with the performance of the PB-10.

Just wondering how large your room is?

Just as a reference, I have 2 20-39CS+ in a 12.5X30X8 room tweeked with SMS. If I crank up too much things start falling down & vibrating across their surfaces. Your PCI should do real fine. SVS service is the best on the planet...............

Thanks guys! I like it loud but clean loud. I will just have to wait and hear how it sounds. I'm getting really excited now. hehe

I am just polishing off my dedicated home theater room and will be utilizing (2) 20-39CS+ to fill out the bottom end of the sound spectrum. My room dimensions are within a foot in each direction of yours.
How much benefit did you get from using the SMS?

Besides the infinite adjustments avaible, it complrtely removed all the humps & suckouts in my room. Without it you hear all the fatness in various parts of the music.If you have the inputs & a TV its really worth the investment.

Not sure, doubt it matter much. I went with the middle for aesthetic reasons.

Ha, thanks, it was almost a rhetorical question. At one point I blocked the port closest to the corner of the room (cylinder sub) I forgot about the 3-port box design.

Quick question. I just purchased the 20-39 pci for my living room which is 12'Wx15'Lx7.5'H. I'm wondering if I made the right decision or should I have saved some more and gone with the plus? I really want to feel the bass and rumbles in movies but not sure if it's going to be what I'm expecting. I've never owned a sub before and the only ones I've heard are the ones in movie theaters and the HT section at BB and CC. I think the rooms sound good at those places but kind of muddy. But I can't feel it.

well here's my experience, i purchased a pci 20-39 a month ago, and it's in a similarly sized room that opens into the kitchen/dining room. all i can say is wow, at first i didn't think it was sounding the way it was supposed to i was used to boomy bass from a car stereo but after a month i love this sub.

the other night my neighbor came over and seen my setup for the first time and he said, well that explains the thunderstorm the other night when it wasn't raining.:D

you will love it, and if it isn't quite enough save some more dough and buy a second.(i'll get my second in 6 months or so.)

... on a PC Plus 20-39.

Will keep you updated on my setup of this sub. I hope to get it by next Wed or Thurs. :):)

Just wondering how large your room is?

My room is 18x20 with a 12ft, triangular-shaped cathedral ceiling (I make it roughly 3400 ft^3, yes, a bit much for a single PB-10). This room opens into the kitchen but is separated by a @4-1/2 ft tall cabinet/wall, which helps to contain the bass in the family room. One interresting feature is that with the shape of the two rooms, there is a particular sweet-spot at the kitchen sink that is nearly as good as my regular viewing position. So, I can fix a sandwich or do other things in the kitchen and still get the rumble from the sub.

My room is 18x20 with a 12ft, triangular-shaped cathedral ceiling (I make it roughly 3400 ft^3, yes, a bit much for a single PB-10). This room opens into the kitchen but is separated by a @4-1/2 ft tall cabinet/wall, which helps to contain the bass in the family room. One interresting feature is that with the shape of the two rooms, there is a particular sweet-spot at the kitchen sink that is nearly as good as my regular viewing position. So, I can fix a sandwich or do other things in the kitchen and still get the rumble from the sub.

Fixing a sandwich and you can hear the rumble of the sub? I think that's your stomach rumbling.

Quick question. I just purchased the 20-39 pci for my living room which is 12'Wx15'Lx7.5'H. I'm wondering if I made the right decision or should I have saved some more and gone with the plus? I really want to feel the bass and rumbles in movies but not sure if it's going to be what I'm expecting. I've never owned a sub before and the only ones I've heard are the ones in movie theaters and the HT section at BB and CC. I think the rooms sound good at those places but kind of muddy. But I can't feel it.

I have a 25-31 PCI tunes to 20hz in a 12x12x9 room and it shakes the floor the walls and makes you feel like you are in the movie.

Honestly when I first got it and put in the Pod racer scene from Star Wars Episode 1 I thought it was better than when I saw it in the theater.

I think you should buy a 2nd one just to be sure though =)

Fixing a sandwich and you can hear the rumble of the sub? I think that's your stomach rumbling.

Good one, but my stomach rumbling rarely sounds like an olephant crashing to the ground.

Since I mentioned that the really low stuff sounds good in the kitchen, I played with the phase some last night, thinking that I might be able to "tune-in" some of the lower frequencies at my regular seating position. That did improve output of the really low stuff a good deal, but I think I will have to play with placement. My problem is that I am pretty limited in that respect.

I am just polishing off my dedicated home theater room and will be utilizing (2) 20-39CS+ to fill out the bottom end of the sound spectrum. My room dimensions are within a foot in each direction of yours.
How much benefit did you get from using the SMS?

The SMS is also nice because with the push of a button you can have your sub calibrated to a completely different setting. This can be based on what kind of movie/music your viewing. You can set one for night mode with much less LFE. You can calibrate to optimize different seating positions. There are 6 different memory settings. It's a nice option.

This sub arrived today after some delay at the factory waiting for some parts, but it took the exact amount of time SVS sales quoted me.

A couple of questions and observations:

I am upgrading from the free 10" Polk sub I got 8 years ago. Even though this is considered sort of inadequate sub, I felt that it did a good job for a beginner system.

This SVS sub is huge, it's almost as tall as my Polk RTI10's and of course way wider!
My room is 2400sq ft, the sub is at the front left corner, about 11ft from my seating position. And about 1 foot away from the wall.

I connected it via Monster RCA cable from my Pioneer Elite 92 to one of the rca inputs (left I think). All my speakers are set for small.

I have the gain set at just a notch above 9 o'clock, phase is 0 and it set for 20hz with all ports open, auto on and I didn't touch any parametric settings because apparently it does not apply to this model - so I believe I am set pretty much at the 'default' levels prior to any customizations.

I began tested the sub by playing Fellowship of the Ring, " scene where the skeleton falls down the well. And the Pod Race in Episode I.

I get lots of rumble, lots! that is for sure, but nothing that really pounds me to the core.. am I expecting too much? When I move closer to the sub, I can feel the low pressure sensation,to the point where it is uncomfortable, but as I move away toward my seating position, it goes down to just the rumbling effect.

Is this an accurate description of how it is supposed to be? Do I need to move my sub a few feet away from the corner?

Thanks!

Getting used to deep clean bass shouldn't take too long or too many demos. Yes, you should be hearing more midbass impact, however, it maybe your ears or it maybe a suckout. Get an SPL meter if you don't have one, calibrate, download some test tones, plot a frequency response at your LP. You probably have mountains and valleys, most do. That's when the fun starts. Let us know what you find and we'll start giving you specific advice.

Thanks, I am going to pick up a meter at RS today. Looks like they have 2 a digital and an analog and there is a 5.00 difference between the two.

But I read that SVS pefers the Analog. I already have an Avia disk, is that a good place to start?

Now I have to learn what mountains and valleys really mean :eek:

This sub arrived today after some delay at the factory waiting for some parts, but it took the exact amount of time SVS sales quoted me.

A couple of questions and observations:

I am upgrading from the free 10" Polk sub I got 8 years ago. Even though this is considered sort of inadequate sub, I felt that it did a good job for a beginner system.

This SVS sub is huge, it's almost as tall as my Polk RTI10's and of course way wider!
My room is 2400sq ft, the sub is at the front left corner, about 11ft from my seating position. And about 1 foot away from the wall.

I connected it via Monster RCA cable from my Pioneer Elite 92 to one of the rca inputs (left I think). All my speakers are set for small.

I have the gain set at just a notch above 9 o'clock, phase is 0 and it set for 20hz with all ports open, auto on and I didn't touch any parametric settings because apparently it does not apply to this model - so I believe I am set pretty much at the 'default' levels prior to any customizations.

I began tested the sub by playing Fellowship of the Ring, " scene where the skeleton falls down the well. And the Pod Race in Episode I.

I get lots of rumble, lots! that is for sure, but nothing that really pounds me to the core.. am I expecting too much? When I move closer to the sub, I can feel the low pressure sensation,to the point where it is uncomfortable, but as I move away toward my seating position, it goes down to just the rumbling effect.

Is this an accurate description of how it is supposed to be? Do I need to move my sub a few feet away from the corner?

Thanks!

I'd just like to share this with you:

I have a large room (approximately 6,500cF) with a large opening to my kitchen/dining room areas. I have a first version 20-39PC+ and I was never happy with it's midbass performance (~80Hz). I've always owned bookshelf speakers that aren't all too great in that area either, so it's been somewhat of a weak spot for me (music mainly).

About 6 weeks or so ago, I decided to get a Behringer Feedback Destroyer and Room EQ Wizard. After getting to familiar with everything I ran some measurements and found my problem.

Here is the frequency response of my 20-39PC+ with no EQ:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a90/TJHUB/Home%20Stereo/rew2.jpg

With the bottom end that bloated, it was no wonder why my midbass performance sounded poorly. I'm certain it's my room that bloats the low end like that. Surprising from such a large room, but I'd much rather have this issue than a null I can't get away from. :D

Applying 2 filters on the BFD:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a90/TJHUB/Home%20Stereo/rewflat80hzfinalbest.jpg

I can't begin to tell you the improvement in overall sound quality of the sub. Midbass sounds fantastic. The bass is so clean, balanced, and articulate, it almost makes me want to cry. Music sounds PERFECT. Bass is clear even at low volumes, and the blend with my mains is absolutely seamless. You can stare directly at the sub and you'd swear that the bass is being reproduced by my mains and not the sub.

A little more learning and a lot more experimenting got me to my house curve that I like VERY much. It's a 4db increase from 80Hz to 20Hz and it really livens up movies while allowing music to still sound perfect to me. I don't have a graph of my final curve, but it's similar to this but not so dramatic:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a90/TJHUB/Home%20Stereo/rew5-7-08housecurve1-final.jpg

This house curve was...DESTRUCTIVE! :D Great for movies, horrible for music.

I think you need to find out what the FR of your sub is in your room and figure things out from there. I just wanted you to see what my issue was when I had a similar complaint to yours.

Hey TJ,

Funny, I also settled on a 4dB house curve, though mine is I believe from 65-32hz. Experimenting with different house curves is great though, especially with REW, because you can see a precise graphical depiction of whatever changes you make. I know it's really helped me be able to identify bass frequencies.

BTW, great post. I think that will be very beneficial to arango1.

Hey TJ,

Funny, I also settled on a 4dB house curve, though mine is I believe from 65-32hz. Experimenting with different house curves is great though, especially with REW, because you can see a precise graphical depiction of whatever changes you make. I know it's really helped me be able to identify bass frequencies.

BTW, great post. I think that will be very beneficial to arango1.

Thank you sir. :)

I've tried no less than 20 house curves experimenting with things and I found that I needed more around 80Hz. Any house curve I tried starting at ~63Hz lost some midbass punch for me. I guess my B&W 805S's are just too weak in that area with my large room.

What stinks is that I get to start all over next week when the PB13-Ultra arrives. I'll suffer through it all though... :D

Thanks for the input TJ. I don't yet understand what house curves are and I don't know yet if I am going to invest in a BFD... after spending 900.00 on my sub.

But I hope I can improve thing significantly by following the owner's manual and performing the calibration using the sound meter and my Avia disk.

Hey all... I'm new here, but I just picked up a PB12 Plus/2 and I cannot understate how thrilled I am with its performance! Its in a ~3,800 ft^3 room and it does everything I could have dreamed of... and with class. I never thought such a large sub could be so musical and precise.

Ok... I got that out. :-) I'm sure I'll have some setup questions soon. :)

Thank you sir. :)

I've tried no less than 20 house curves experimenting with things and I found that I needed more around 80Hz. Any house curve I tried starting at ~63Hz lost some midbass punch for me. I guess my B&W 805S's are just too weak in that area with my large room.

What stinks is that I get to start all over next week when the PB13-Ultra arrives. I'll suffer through it all though... :D

Aww, poor TJ. Stuck with a new PB13 Ultra :p. Imagine if you were stuck with two PB10-NSD's like I am. You'd probably throw them in the trash!

I'd just like to share this with you:

I have a large room (approximately 6,500cF) with a large opening to my kitchen/dining room areas. I have a first version 20-39PC+ and I was never happy with it's midbass performance (~80Hz). I've always owned bookshelf speakers that aren't all too great in that area either, so it's been somewhat of a weak spot for me (music mainly).

About 6 weeks or so ago, I decided to get a Behringer Feedback Destroyer and Room EQ Wizard. After getting to familiar with everything I ran some measurements and found my problem.

Here is the frequency response of my 20-39PC+ with no EQ:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a90/TJHUB/Home%20Stereo/rew2.jpg

With the bottom end that bloated, it was no wonder why my midbass performance sounded poorly. I'm certain it's my room that bloats the low end like that. Surprising from such a large room, but I'd much rather have this issue than a null I can't get away from. :D

Applying 2 filters on the BFD:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a90/TJHUB/Home%20Stereo/rewflat80hzfinalbest.jpg

I can't begin to tell you the improvement in overall sound quality of the sub. Midbass sounds fantastic. The bass is so clean, balanced, and articulate, it almost makes me want to cry. Music sounds PERFECT. Bass is clear even at low volumes, and the blend with my mains is absolutely seamless. You can stare directly at the sub and you'd swear that the bass is being reproduced by my mains and not the sub.



Great post. After years of experimenting with various EQ curves, I keep coming back to a flat response for both music and movies.

The room can indeed wreak havoc with the SQ of a subwoofer, and your case study supports the importance of an accurate in-room FR at the listening position.

Give that flat curve some time with movies, and I'm betting you won't want to go back to a house curve after a few weeks. While there are movies out there with an anemic bottom end (which might justify a house curve), most movies are mixed accurately (or already overblown) and sound the best with a flat in-room FR.

Having the subwoofer accurately enhance/support the low-end instead of constantly reminding you of its presence (due to a bloated low-end) is ultimately the best sounding and least fatiguing set-up.

Aww, poor TJ. Stuck with a new PB13 Ultra :p. Imagine if you were stuck with two PB10-NSD's like I am. You'd probably throw them in the trash!

You should feel bad for me. Do you know how many wonderful listening hours I'm going to have to endure to get things "just right"? :p

I doubt I'd throw any SVS sub in the garbage. As a long time fan, any SVS is better than no SVS. ;) From what I understand, PB10's are no slouch in the right room.

I am concerned a little about how much "better" I'll find the PB13U over my PC+. I hope it's a lot, but I keep my expectations low for now to hopefully be pleasantly surprised. Another concern is that I was able to dial my PC+ in with 2 filters perfectly, what challenges *might* the box sub bring to my room? :rolleyes:

Great post. After years of experimenting with various EQ curves, I keep coming back to a flat response for both music and movies.

The room can indeed wreak havoc with the SQ of a subwoofer, and your case study supports the importance of an accurate in-room FR at the listening position.

Give that flat curve some time with movies, and I'm betting you won't want to go back to a house curve after a few weeks. While there are movies out there with an anemic bottom end (which might justify a house curve), most movies are mixed accurately (or already overblown) and sound the best with a flat in-room FR.

Having the subwoofer accurately enhance/support the low-end instead of constantly reminding you of its presence (due to a bloated low-end) is ultimately the best sounding and least fatiguing set-up.

Thanks Ed. :)

I did give the flat curve a lot of time (or at least 30+ listening hours) as that's where I started when I first setup my BFD. I was immediately floored by the sound quality improvement for music. Music is by far more important to me than movies. I listen to about 80% music and 20% movies with any skew going more towards music. If my sub doesn't sound near perfect for music, I couldn't care less how it sounds for movies.

Reading about house curves got me to start experimenting with them. While movies where sounding just fine with my flat curve down to 15Hz, I felt I could stand more low end impact. I also wanted to get more midbass output as I felt it was slightly lacking.

I tried many house curves before settling on my 4db house curve. All of my critical music listening has only revealed a slightly hotter lower end that is subjectively just fine to me. The impact on movies was dramatic though. Movie scenes like Ratatouille's shot gun blasts really punch, Monsters Inc's sock explosion really pops, and Star Wars II ship explosion really shakes the house (can you tell I have kids?). :D The Pod emergence scene in War of the Worlds is just plain destructive! :D Those few db's on the bottom end really livens things up. I don't know if it's my large room that requires this or not, but I like it a lot. ;)

As a critical music listener, the LAST thing I want is a heavy bottom end. For me, the bass needs to be present and clear; it should be delicate, balanced, and tuneful. I honestly don't think my house curve changes this much for music and it really helps movies (IMO anyway).

When my PB13-Ultra shows up next week, I will be starting over with a flat curve for a while to get a feel for it's performance over my PC+. I will later undoubtedly try some house curves because I honestly think they have merit.

And Ed, I've never found my SVS sub to be "fatiguing", but correcting the in-room FR really made it special. :) I can't wait get the Ultra up and running. :D

I apologize for the basic questions.

I downloaded the REW and I read the help files.
I purchased the newer RS analog sound meter.

I am using a Dell D620 laptop which has a mic jack and a headphone jack.

So do I just simply connect my sound meter to the mic jack and then the run an rca stereo cable from the laptop to my Pioneer Elite front panel inputs?

Then, do I run some subwoofer sound tests? Which ones? I am using Avia, is there a certain test that works best?

Sorry guys, I am really trying but this is quite confusing :confused:

Thanks!

I apologize for the basic questions.

I downloaded the REW and I read the help files.
I purchased the newer RS analog sound meter.

I am using a Dell D620 laptop which has a mic jack and a headphone jack.

So do I just simply connect my sound meter to the mic jack and then the run an rca stereo cable from the laptop to my Pioneer Elite front panel inputs?

Then, do I run some subwoofer sound tests? Which ones? I am using Avia, is there a certain test that works best?

Sorry guys, I am really trying but this is quite confusing :confused:

Thanks!

You really need to read the guides on hometheatershack for REW. Just follow the guide step-by-step and you'll be fine. It seems overwhelming at first, but it's really rather simple. REW provides all the test tones and sweeps, so you don't need your AVIA dvd to take measurements.

You CANNOT use the "mic in" on your laptop. You have to connect your RS meter to a "line in" on a sound card. I purchased a Creative Labs external USB sound card for my laptop that provided a "line in". See the REW forum on HTS for more info.

Monoprice has a cable you can get with a mini stereo plug on one end and RCA inputs on the other: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021803&p_id=663&seq=1&format=2

It costs less than a dollar, BUT beware of the shipping cost. Be sure to throw in some other cables you need with it to spead out that cost (it would cost you 6-7$ to ship a 60-cent cable).

In these days when purchasing things over the Internet can be risky, or at least a bad experience customer service wise, I want to report about a very satisfactory experience I had with the European distributor of SVS products.

After placing an order for a PB12 Plus, I had to complain with L-Sound, probably due to a misunderstanding, about delivery time and a refused request to cancel a cable I ordered and have it substituted by a Radio Shack Sound Meter.

I was sure I would get no answers having already paied by credit card.

Instead, they answerd in less then 12 hours, and did all they could to bring back my satisfaction.

They could not at that point swap the cable with the Radio Shack and so, even if they were not completely at fault, they offered me a discount on the Radio Shack, they did not charge the shipment expenses for the second package and they added a hat for free in the Radio Shack package.

In my experience when you pay in advance usually you do not get such a good service neither you are offered any sort of compensation particularly when it is not really clear who is at fault.

These guys have a rare knowledge, they know that customer service comes before the product.

Buy with trust form L-sound and if something goes wrong, let them know. You will be surrounded by attention, kindness and willing to please.

Ciao from Italy.

Enzo

Monoprice has a cable you can get with a mini stereo plug on one end and RCA inputs on the other: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021803&p_id=663&seq=1&format=2

It costs less than a dollar, BUT beware of the shipping cost. Be sure to throw in some other cables you need with it to spead out that cost (it would cost you 6-7$ to ship a 60-cent cable).

You really need to read the guides on hometheatershack for REW. Just follow the guide step-by-step and you'll be fine. It seems overwhelming at first, but it's really rather simple. REW provides all the test tones and sweeps, so you don't need your AVIA dvd to take measurements.

You CANNOT use the "mic in" on your laptop. You have to connect your RS meter to a "line in" on a sound card. I purchased a Creative Labs external USB sound card for my laptop that provided a "line in". See the REW forum on HTS for more info.


THanks for the advice. It is overwhelming - like when I was learning how to do fractions in grade school! but then it clicks!

Maybe, I can save the 50 to 60 bucks and use the sound card on my desktop? Will that work ok?

THanks for the advice. It is overwhelming - like when I was learning how to do fractions in grade school! but then it clicks!

Maybe, I can save the 50 to 60 bucks and use the sound card on my desktop? Will that work ok?

Yes, any sound card with a "line in" will work perfectly. I have two friends that did it that way at first, but then they spent the "50 to 60 bucks" and purchased sound cards for their laptops. ;):p:D

Make sure you post some graphs after you get everything figured out. I think it could help other owners to realize how rooms affect a sub's frequency response.

Is the PB12 Plus $600 better than the PB13 Ultra?

That's my dillemma. I think I want to go with either of these. I'm also gutted about the PB12 NSD, with people saying there's not much of a difference between the NSD and the Plus. I am in Canada and will be buying from Sonic Boom (auth dealer). My room isn't very big, but I will be moving in about a year and want to have the flexibility of a 12" driver.

The NSD is $700, the Plus is $1150, and the PB13 is $1700. With taxes, the PB13 is over $1900 and the Plus is $1300. To be that's a big difference in price. I'm wondering if that difference is worth it.

SonicBoom is in the GTA. Markham to be exact. Arrange for a demo of all three subs and judge for yourself.

Is the PB12 Plus $600 better than the PB13 Ultra?

That's my dillemma. I think I want to go with either of these. I'm also gutted about the PB12 NSD, with people saying there's not much of a difference between the NSD and the Plus. I am in Canada and will be buying from Sonic Boom (auth dealer). My room isn't very big, but I will be moving in about a year and want to have the flexibility of a 12" driver.

The NSD is $700, the Plus is $1150, and the PB13 is $1700. With taxes, the PB13 is over $1900 and the Plus is $1300. To be that's a big difference in price. I'm wondering if that difference is worth it.

can't Mason (of SBA) setup a demo for you between the two? you need to decide if it's worth it for YOU.

IMO it is, based on overall output, you get almost twice the performance of the PB12 Plus for only 600USD

can't Mason (of SBA) setup a demo for you between the two? you need to decide if it's worth it for YOU.

IMO it is, based on overall output, you get almost twice the performance of the PB12 Plus for only 600USD

The only time I have is on Sundays and Sonic Boom is closed on Sundays. I live too far too make it there before they close at 6pm on weekdays.

This is why I was looking for some insight as to what I can expect so that if I do have the time, I can just drop by, take a quick listen and pick up the one I want.

My dillemma:

PB10 - $499. My room is 12x14. Do I even need a 12" even if I move to a let's say 14x18 room?
PB12 - $699. 12" but seem similar to the PB10 with a bit more output.
PB12+ - $1149. This is the one I always wanted but really don't want to pay that much.
PB13 - $1699. Way out of my price range.

Your need is pretty much determined by how loud you like to listen. If you don't require a lot of volume, the PB10 may do the trick for you. Once you start getting up into the PB12+ and the PB13 range, not only do you get progressively more volume, but the quality of the bass also increases.

The Pb12 Nsd would work fine. Pb10 probably enough but you eventually want more= Pb12

I know it might be a pain..But what I did was to pick up the subs I was thinking of ,in my case a pb12-nsd and a sb12 plus from sonic boom .When they didnt work out I packaged everything up returned it and got a 20-39 pc+...which I love and is the one I kept......My point is mason at sonic boom is a great guy very accommodating you may have to make a trip or two but you will no for sure which sub you want to keep after audtioning all of them in your home.

I know it might be a pain..But what I did was to pick up the subs I was thinking of ,in my case a pb12-nsd and a sb12 plus from sonic boom .When they didnt work out I packaged everything up returned it and got a 20-39 pc+...which I love and is the one I kept......My point is mason at sonic boom is a great guy very accommodating you may have to make a trip or two but you will no for sure which sub you want to keep after audtioning all of them in your home.

Can you give me an idea as to how much output incease you'd get from the 20-39+ over the PB12 NSD? What I'd like is a lot of chest slamming output at medium to low volume, and a sub that goes down into the teens.

I found the 20-39pc+ very close to the pb12nsd performance wise ...size was the reason I went with the 20-39. I found it had more output in the midbass(20hz native tune) than the pb12nsd ...the pb12 nsd went a tad lower for movies but still very close cant go wrong with either one ...my room is mid size 12x18x8 opening to hallway...and with the right music (Steely Dan - Two Against Nature - DTS) it realy gives that chest slaming feel... I love it

Can you give me an idea as to how much output incease you'd get from the 20-39+ over the PB12 NSD? What I'd like is a lot of chest slamming output at medium to low volume, and a sub that goes down into the teens.

Frankly, you really shouldn't have much chest slamming going on at lower volume with any sub unless you have the sub calibrated unusually high. Are you a car sub guy?

Hey. I read about the LTS months ago and hoped that midway into 2008 we'd have some information.

Where is the info for all us loyal SVS fans?? It's getting to be too long!!

Hey guys, do you think a PB-10 is a bit overkill for my setup and room? It's a rather smallish living room (about 12'x12' with the kitchen on the right side of it in the open). I'll have SCS-01(M)s as my 3 fronts and 2 sbs-01 as rears in the future. I know SVS subs are great quality and that is why I wonder if even their entry level sub is overkill for my room. I'll mainly be playing 360 games and watching some TV. My neighbor downstairs is also my landlord and he has 2 babies. :)

Thanks for any advice/alternatives.

Hey guys, do you think a PB-10 is a bit overkill for my setup and room? It's a rather smallish living room (about 12'x12' with the kitchen on the right side of it in the open). I'll have SCS-01(M)s as my 3 fronts and 2 sbs-01 as rears in the future. I know SVS subs are great quality and that is why I wonder if even their entry level sub is overkill for my room. I'll mainly be playing 360 games and watching some TV. My neighbor downstairs is also my landlord and he has 2 babies. :)

Thanks for any advice/alternatives.

Nope. I'm running two in an 11x10 enclosed room. The only reason it would be overkill is if you're concerned about the neighbors. Honestly though, with a downstairs neighbor, just about any sub could cause issues - it totally depends on the neighbor. Overall, I think a single PB10 would be great for your room.

Dual PB12-NSD's :D

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/1458/pictureall3120cd0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

That's the problem, with the neighbor just below am I better off skipping on the sub for now? I mean the isolation is good.. I am guessing the investment now in a quality sub is well worth it considering it'll last for a long time, including when I do buy a house.

That's the problem, with the neighbor just below am I better off skipping on the sub for now? I mean the isolation is good.. I am guessing the investment now in a quality sub is well worth it considering it'll last for a long time, including when I do buy a house.

Buy 2 subs, give one to your neighbor, he'll catch the sub bug and he won't complain.

haha :)

I'll be buying the NB-10. I think it will be just fine. If I ever move out and buy a house, I'll stack 4 ultras together. ;p

Upgraded from a Klipsch SUB-10 to an SVS PB10-NSD yesterday :D, and noticed an immediate difference in my small (~2000^3) room. Interestingly, I'd describe it as sounds being fuller and having more depth, not any increased thump or more pronounced bass line (which is what I expected). I'm guessing this means I'm getting more mid-bass impact, right? I like the impact of the upgrade, but I wonder if there is more tuning I should do or if I should be getting more low-freq bang from this change. I've used an SPL meter to set the speaker levels at 75db with the sub at 78-79. Gain is at about 60%, phase at 0, speakers all set to small in AVR (XOver is set to Auto). I have Infinity Beta 40 fronts, Beta C360 center, Beta 10 surrounds, and a Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH driving the whole setup (overkill, I know, but I wanted 4 HDMI inputs). Do I need to get into EQ? Phase control on the AVR? Some other exotic tuning change? Using almost 100% for movies (BLU and HDDVD), usually with volume between -20 and -10. Played the first five minutes of Transformers (HD DVD) for A/B comparo.

Dont' get me wrong - I definitely noticed an improvement over the Klipsch. I was just expecting a more visceral experience - room-shaking, chest-pounding type impact. Will I get this with the PB10? Is it more of a volume thing?

Thanks guys!

P.S. The guys at SVS got this to me ahead of schedule :), double-boxed, well-packed. The finish is every bit as nice as the Klipsch (though it wouldn't matter any way, as it sits in the corner of a dark, dedicated theater room), and I do not find the size extreme at all.

Upgraded from a Klipsch SUB-10 to an SVS PB10-NSD yesterday :D, and noticed an immediate difference in my small (~2000^3) room. Interestingly, I'd describe it as sounds being fuller and having more depth, not any increased thump or more pronounced bass line (which is what I expected). I'm guessing this means I'm getting more mid-bass impact, right? I like the impact of the upgrade, but I wonder if there is more tuning I should do or if I should be getting more low-freq bang from this change. I've used an SPL meter to set the speaker levels at 75db with the sub at 78-79. Gain is at about 60%, phase at 0, speakers all set to small in AVR (XOver is set to Auto). I have Infinity Beta 40 fronts, Beta C360 center, Beta 10 surrounds, and a Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH driving the whole setup (overkill, I know, but I wanted 4 HDMI inputs). Do I need to get into EQ? Phase control on the AVR? Some other exotic tuning change? Using almost 100% for movies (BLU and HDDVD), usually with volume between -20 and -10. Played the first five minutes of Transformers (HD DVD) for A/B comparo.

Dont' get me wrong - I definitely noticed an improvement over the Klipsch. I was just expecting a more visceral experience - room-shaking, chest-pounding type impact. Will I get this with the PB10? Is it more of a volume thing?

Thanks guys!

P.S. The guys at SVS got this to me ahead of schedule :), double-boxed, well-packed. The finish is every bit as nice as the Klipsch (though it wouldn't matter any way, as it sits in the corner of a dark, dedicated theater room), and I do not find the size extreme at all.I've heard both the Sub10 and the PB10. The SVS is tuned to 20hz and the Klipsch box is probably tuned close to 40hz. It's output is centered in the mid bass area above it tuning point. This gives it it's punchy sound. Below 30hz, the one I had would experience distress and tended to distort or bottom. The SVS is much cleaner, digs much deeper and as you can tell sounds different. Depending on your room, you may experience a suckout in the midbass that effects the punch. Download some test tones and measure your frequency response from 16-100hz. It will probably look like a mountain range. If you are experiencing a suckout, placement can help somewhat. At least you'll know where to start once you graph the FR.

In your room, you should get awesome LFE depending on your source...might not be plaster busting with the PB10, but you definitely should get pressurization.

Upgraded from a Klipsch SUB-10 to an SVS PB10-NSD yesterday :D, and noticed an immediate difference in my small (~2000^3) room. Interestingly, I'd describe it as sounds being fuller and having more depth, not any increased thump or more pronounced bass line (which is what I expected). I'm guessing this means I'm getting more mid-bass impact, right? I like the impact of the upgrade, but I wonder if there is more tuning I should do or if I should be getting more low-freq bang from this change. I've used an SPL meter to set the speaker levels at 75db with the sub at 78-79. Gain is at about 60%, phase at 0, speakers all set to small in AVR (XOver is set to Auto). I have Infinity Beta 40 fronts, Beta C360 center, Beta 10 surrounds, and a Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH driving the whole setup (overkill, I know, but I wanted 4 HDMI inputs). Do I need to get into EQ? Phase control on the AVR? Some other exotic tuning change? Using almost 100% for movies (BLU and HDDVD), usually with volume between -20 and -10. Played the first five minutes of Transformers (HD DVD) for A/B comparo.

Dont' get me wrong - I definitely noticed an improvement over the Klipsch. I was just expecting a more visceral experience - room-shaking, chest-pounding type impact. Will I get this with the PB10? Is it more of a volume thing?

Thanks guys!

P.S. The guys at SVS got this to me ahead of schedule :), double-boxed, well-packed. The finish is every bit as nice as the Klipsch (though it wouldn't matter any way, as it sits in the corner of a dark, dedicated theater room), and I do not find the size extreme at all.

The PB10-NSD isn't exactly an SPL monster. At its price point, its output is pretty much on par with competitors' subs. What it can do that most others in its price range cannot is extend deeper (strong to 20hz and below in-room). I'd expect you to feel some impact with it, but to be honest, in a 2000 cubic foot room, I wouldn't expect a gut-wrenching experience. I'm using two PB10-NSD's in a ~900 cubic foot room. I started with one, and it sounded very good but I could sometimes take it to its limits. Since I like to listen pretty loud and wanted to have the headroom for dynamic LFE peaks, I purchased a second and now my bass experience is truly powerful.

To address your current thoughts, I'd have to agree that my experience with one PB10-NSD was similar. It has more depth, but didn't get any louder in the mid bass than my older 12" Infinity. When I first got my PB10, I felt similarly to how you feel. I loved the sound quality and added depth, but was somewhat disappointed in its output. I had expected it to be like my old subwoofer but louder. Instead, it was about the same in output capabilities but with far deeper extension. The PB10 is a very linear subwoofer, meaning it has very even output capabilities across its entire frequency response. Many lower end subs tend to augment the 50-80hz range, demonstrating big peaks in the mid/upper bass while having very little output below 35hz. The PB10 is designed to go lower (20hz and even a little below that) while having very linear output across its entire bandwidth (just look at the frequency response graph at the bottom of the PB10-NSD page on SVS's website - that line is darn flat!).

My guess is that the sound of flat, accurate bass is disappointing to you - or at least not what you were expecting. I felt the same way, as the PB10 had less "thump" or "punch" that my Infinity. However, I think over time you will learn to appreciate its accuracy and depth over the other sub's bloated mid bass. For now, try to give yourself a little while to get used to the sound of the PB10. You have 45 days to try it out in your home and still get a refund if it turns out the PB10 isn't exactly what you were looking for.

That said, if you like to listen loud, chances are the single PB10 won't cut it in that room. Not that a 2000 cubic foot room is a big room, but I found that the single PB10 wasn't quite cutting it in my room that is half the size of yours - at least not at near reference level listening levels. If you like to really "feel" the bass in movies, I'd recommend at least a PB12-NSD or adding a second PB10-NSD in a 2000 cubic foot room. The difference I noticed after adding the second was dramatic.

You also mentioned EQ, and I'd strongly recommend at least measuring the in-room frequency response of your PB10-NSD at your listening position. It could be that you have a large null at a certain frequency, or big peaks that could be overpowering other frequencies, which might be reducing the "punch" you're looking for. In fact, I'm almost sure that peaks and/or nulls are present. Here are in-room measurements of my bass response before and after EQ and bass traps.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg64/lalakersfan34/before.jpg?t=1213809410

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg64/lalakersfan34/4dbhousecurvefr.jpg?t=1213809436

Pretty big difference, huh?


Overall, I think your slight disappointment is due to one or more of the following possibilities:

1. The PB10 isn't an ultra-high output subwoofer. It plays moderately loud across its frequency response, but it won't knock your house down. My recommendation: upgrade to a PB12-NSD or, even better, a second PB10-NSD.
2. The PB10 has a very even frequency response. It doesn't have a bloated mid bass (which I'm guessing your Klipsch does have, due to a far higher tuning point), and mid bass often contributes greatly to that "punch" you seem to be after. Sometimes it takes a while to appreciate the subtle nuances of clean, accurate, proper bass. My recommendation: give it some time - chances are you won't want to go back.
3. Your room likely has big peaks/nulls as mine did, which wreaks havoc on bass performance. Try using Room EQ Wizard (REW), available at hometheatershack.com. It's free and can help you measure your frequency response. You can experiment with subwoofer placement to achieve the most linear frequency response at your listening position. My recommendation: highly recommended, but if you get into doing EQ and/or room treatments, things can get expensive. Using REW to measure frequency response with the sub in different locations is free, though.


Best of luck. The PB10 is a great sub. Keep experimenting, give it some time, and I'm sure you'll come to love it, or else upgrade to a PB12-NSD or two PB10's and be thrilled. Enjoy.

Thanks Ron and LakerFan - I will brave the EQ section :eek: of my Elite manual and try to give it a go. Will check out the REW too.

I'm confident the PB10 is going to be a keeper, but I'm going to tweak and tweak until I get a little more low end power. Watching MIB 2 tonight with my son, then several movies this weekend. Will post more notes as we go.

Thanks again - these forums are the greatest.:D

P.S. With more precise measurements, my room is actually 1764 cf (14x14x9), 12% smaller than my estimate. It is also fully enclosed, carpeted, and has curtains on two walls (to the left of, and behind the LP). 4 Berklines in fabric finish. I'm thinking the room is sonically pretty darn good, though it could use an acoustic treatment over the doors in the wall to the right of the LP. Sub is in the far left corner from the LP, 8" from back wall, 4" from side wall. Will crack open the bass trap questions if EQ doesn't do the trick.

Thanks Ron and LakerFan - I will brave the EQ section :eek: of my Elite manual and try to give it a go. Will check out the REW too.

I'm confident the PB10 is going to be a keeper, but I'm going to tweak and tweak until I get a little more low end power. Watching MIB 2 tonight with my son, then several movies this weekend. Will post more notes as we go.

Thanks again - these forums are the greatest.:D

P.S. With more precise measurements, my room is actually 1764 cf (14x14x9), 12% smaller than my estimate. It is also fully enclosed, carpeted, and has curtains on two walls (to the left of, and behind the LP). 4 Berklines in fabric finish. I'm thinking the room is sonically pretty darn good, though it could use an acoustic treatment over the doors in the wall to the right of the LP. Sub is in the far left corner from the LP, 8" from back wall, 4" from side wall. Will crack open the bass trap questions if EQ doesn't do the trick.

Keep working on it. If you can experiment with placement I think you could end up with better bass.

BTW, now that you've listed your room dimensions, I'm almost positive your room could be a large part of the problem. Perfectly square rooms aren't exactly ideal for producing good bass response. I'm no acoustical expert, but rooms with four identical walls can end up with lots of cancellations and other issues. Don't get me wrong, you can still probably end up with good bass performance, but it might take a bit more work.

One more thing to look into - where in the room is your seating located? If it's exactly in the middle (equidistant from the front and back walls), you're probably sitting in a huge null. I know the exact middle of my room is practically devoid of bass, despite my having two subs in a 900 cubic foot room. Generally, I think seating at 2/3 distance from the front wall can help provide better bass response. So in your room with 14' walls, I'd say sitting around 9' to 11' from the front wall would be ideal. Others with more expertise on the subject can feel free to chime in, but it's just something else to consider along with sub placement and EQ/room treatments. Best of luck!

I am going to be powering two 20-39CSPlus subwoofers via a Crown CE1000 amplifier. I am just wondering if any of you passive subwoofer users are utilizing any sort of subsonic filter for your setup or do you not deem it necessary?

LakersFan-

My seating is centered against one wall (the Berklines with wedges actually take up about 12.5'), so I'd say my primary LP is 12-13 feet from the front wall. Its the only way I could get some distance between the viewers and the screen. I didn't think to move around the room while we were pumping bass, but will do some crawling this weekend to check other possible positions (there aren't many, due to size of sub and contents of room). DL'ed REW from the shack, and will try that too.

Is the doc for REW pretty straightforward? Haven't installed it yet, and have the 'getting out of my depth' jitters... :rolleyes:

Thanks!

Today I swithced on for the first time the Pb12 Plus received yesterday.
I measure it with the Radio Shack meter and set it to 75 db as the others speakers are.

I had a problem in measuring it because the needle of the meter was bouncing between in a range of about 4 db never stopping. This did not happen with the other speakers. I was using the internal tone of the Onkyo 875.
I wonder if this is a normal behavior.

Then I run Audyssey set up and I had to decrease the gain to about 1/4 from zero (between secind and third line) and the audyssey set the sub at -3,5 dB.

Also this makes me wonder. Do I have a subwoofer too big ? Am I using it for it's full capabilty or I could have purchased a smaller box? (it is huge though!!)

The wife almost called the lawyer...:eek:

However it sounds great and I am happy. I think after some breakin it will also be better.

Your answers are really appreciated.

Ciao from Italy.

enzo

LakersFan-

My seating is centered against one wall (the Berklines with wedges actually take up about 12.5'), so I'd say my primary LP is 12-13 feet from the front wall. Its the only way I could get some distance between the viewers and the screen. I didn't think to move around the room while we were pumping bass, but will do some crawling this weekend to check other possible positions (there aren't many, due to size of sub and contents of room). DL'ed REW from the shack, and will try that too.

Is the doc for REW pretty straightforward? Haven't installed it yet, and have the 'getting out of my depth' jitters... :rolleyes:

Thanks!

REW isn't all that bad. The forum where you download it has great threads and people there to help if you get stuck.

It just dawned on me (finally) that you have a dedicated room with multiple seats. EQ will help if you're trying to get response just right in one listening position, but it might not help (and could even be detrimental) with other listening positions. Next time you try out your PB10 with a bass heavy movie scene, move from seat to seat and you'll see what a completely different bass experience it is in each one. Try watching the scene from each chair and you'll notice that it will have quite different bass response. The best solution for you (assuming you can afford to do it) is to get a second PB10 and locate it in a different spot from the first one in your room. That should help even out bass response. You'll get a small increase in headroom, but you'll find that the bass experience from chair to chair will be more even.

Of course, don't feel like you have to do that right now. I'm just saying that in the long run, EQ probably won't help much with your four separate seating positions. A second PB10-NSD would help both in output and in evening out frequency response so all viewers get a good bass experience. Just a thought. Hope I haven't spent too much of your money now :rolleyes:. Best of luck.

Hello all, I'm wondering if you can help me troubleshoot an issue I ma having with my SVS SB12-Plus. Recently I noticed that no matter what level I set the gain to that the bass coming out is very weak. I threw some Eminem in to compare the SVS with the Orb Audio Super 8 sub I have for the bedroom. The super 8 was throwing out a lot more bass, for some reason the SVS sounded muted as though the amp or the connector can be the issue. I still had some bass but not to the level you would expect from this sub. Any thoughts on what I could try before I call SVS.

And I'll bet its going to get even better. I made just one change - setting the X curve to -2.5 db on my Pioneer Elite 94 AVR - and BOOM! :D Sacrificed a tiny bit of mid bass depth, but I'm going to keep tweaking so I can have it both ways. Right now I'm getting impactful, feel-it-in-your-bones lows, good mid, and outstanding separation/surround. (MIB 2 was excellent for hearing all of this - though the movie was only average at best). The bass is powerful and room shaking, but somehow does not boom or overbear the highs like it did with the Klipsch.

Before messing with EQ, I'm going to try setting Full Band Phase Control on the AVR, then try the sub setting on PLUS, then try setting the sub distance in the AVR to 2 feet more than it really is (read somewhere this can help). Will also monkey with phase and position, but I'm already getting 99.5% of what I can even imagine.

Now I see how the sub junkies get addicted - this is a HUGE improvement over the Klipsch Sub 10, and I can see that it would be easy to get hooked on upgrades. ;)

As Calvin once told Hobbes - 'further bulletins as events warrant'.

And I'll bet its going to get even better. I made just one change - setting the X curve to -2.5 db on my Pioneer Elite 94 AVR - and BOOM! :D Sacrificed a tiny bit of mid bass depth, but I'm going to keep tweaking so I can have it both ways. Right now I'm getting impactful, feel-it-in-your-bones lows, good mid, and outstanding separation/surround. (MIB 2 was excellent for hearing all of this - though the movie was only average at best). The bass is powerful and room shaking, but somehow does not boom or overbear the highs like it did with the Klipsch.

Before messing with EQ, I'm going to try setting Full Band Phase Control on the AVR, then try the sub setting on PLUS, then try setting the sub distance in the AVR to 2 feet more than it really is (read somewhere this can help). Will also monkey with phase and position, but I'm already getting 99.5% of what I can even imagine.

Now I see how the sub junkies get addicted - this is a HUGE improvement over the Klipsch Sub 10, and I can see that it would be easy to get hooked on upgrades. ;)

As Calvin once told Hobbes - 'further bulletins as events warrant'.

Wow! Glad you figured out a way to make things better. It's funny how often that great sound we're looking for is just one setting away. I can't tell you how often I've been in a similar predicament. Keep us posted on your PB10 experience, and enjoy :).

Today I swithced on for the first time the Pb12 Plus received yesterday.
I measure it with the Radio Shack meter and set it to 75 db as the others speakers are.

I had a problem in measuring it because the needle of the meter was bouncing between in a range of about 4 db never stopping. This did not happen with the other speakers. I was using the internal tone of the Onkyo 875.
I wonder if this is a normal behavior.

Then I run Audyssey set up and I had to decrease the gain to about 1/4 from zero (between secind and third line) and the audyssey set the sub at -3,5 dB.

Also this makes me wonder. Do I have a subwoofer too big ? Am I using it for it's full capabilty or I could have purchased a smaller box? (it is huge though!!)

The wife almost called the lawyer...:eek:

However it sounds great and I am happy. I think after some breakin it will also be better.

Your answers are really appreciated.

Ciao from Italy.

enzo

That actually sounds like you have it setup perfectly. Your receiver is bringing down the signal just slightly which lets the sub's amp not have to work as hard boosting the signal.

The bouncing needle on subwoofer tests is perfectly normal. The reason it only happens on subwoofer notes and not the other speakers is because the waves are being bounced around in the room with larger wavelengths so it alters bass notes several times a second. The effect is not really noticeable when you're watching regular movies/music though.

So, for your room I think you've got the perfect subwoofer.

So, for your room I think you've got the perfect subwoofer.
Thanks for yuor answer. How do you know about my room?:confused::D

And I'll bet its going to get even better. I made just one change - setting the X curve to -2.5 db on my Pioneer Elite 94 AVR - and BOOM! :D Sacrificed a tiny bit of mid bass depth, but I'm going to keep tweaking so I can have it both ways. Right now I'm getting impactful, feel-it-in-your-bones lows, good mid, and outstanding separation/surround. (MIB 2 was excellent for hearing all of this - though the movie was only average at best). The bass is powerful and room shaking, but somehow does not boom or overbear the highs like it did with the Klipsch.

Before messing with EQ, I'm going to try setting Full Band Phase Control on the AVR, then try the sub setting on PLUS, then try setting the sub distance in the AVR to 2 feet more than it really is (read somewhere this can help). Will also monkey with phase and position, but I'm already getting 99.5% of what I can even imagine.

Now I see how the sub junkies get addicted - this is a HUGE improvement over the Klipsch Sub 10, and I can see that it would be easy to get hooked on upgrades. ;)

As Calvin once told Hobbes - 'further bulletins as events warrant'.

Saskya,
Thanks for posting your experience. I have an Elite VSX-92 also and posted earlier similar experience with my sub, not getting that visceral impact, although I did appreciate the quality of the bass. I have the REW but haven't purchased a sound card yet.
I am going to try to adjust my eq setting on my Elite like you did and see what kind of impact I get.

Thanks.

For anyone who is curious:

http://www.stereomojo.com/Salagar%20Symphony%20S210%20Review/SalagarSymphonyS210SpeakerReview.htm

The Salagar S210. $8,800 speakers using the SVS MTS Scan Speak tweeter. (Salagar is self powered)

Hopefully the LTS will be 3way and improve midrange and bass.

Hello,
So I rented this DVD because it is mentioned as a great reference for the SVS 20-39+ PC.

I used my Oppo configured with most of the defaults in raw mode.

The bass was very underwhelming... hardly any at all, which is really weird because I get base watching regulary movies (although whether I have my sub properly calibrated is debatable) but hardly any bass at all?


Anyway, from what I hear, it should have really rocked... but oh well, I watched Jumper right after on Standard DVD and the bass was kind of cool everytime they jumped... subtle yet very well pronounced and present in the room...

Since this is the SVS support thread, perhaps a link to their recent newsletter would be OK:
http://www.svsound.com/Newsletter/2008/SVS_MidYearNewsletter08.pdf
as it contains info on the MTS speaker crossover upgrade.

Hello,
So I rented this DVD because it is mentioned as a great reference for the SVS 20-39+ PC.

I used my Oppo configured with most of the defaults in raw mode.

The bass was very underwhelming... hardly any at all, which is really weird because I get base watching regulary movies (although whether I have my sub properly calibrated is debatable) but hardly any bass at all?


Anyway, from what I hear, it should have really rocked... but oh well, I watched Jumper right after on Standard DVD and the bass was kind of cool everytime they jumped... subtle yet very well pronounced and present in the room...


That sounds wild, as the blue man group has some major bass. I am wondering if something on the disk put it into a mode that kicked off the LFE channel.

That sounds wild, as the blue man group has some major bass. I am wondering if something on the disk put it into a mode that kicked off the LFE channel.

That's my suspicion. Lots of times, these concert DVD's default to stereo and not the Dolby Digital or DTS track.

arango1: Make sure you're actually listening to the 5.1 track. It's possible you already are, but I know I've been disappointed numerous times before and it was something as simple as having the wrong audio track playing. Hope that fixes it.

Hi Fellas,
Been following this thread for six months now and on Friday once I get my stimulas check i'll be joining the club. However, I'm kinda stuck on one thing and need some help. Sub cable? I noticed on the website SVS promotes Bettercables and I was trying to figure out is it worth the extra money to get that cable with my new sub or would a cheap cable that I already have (belkin pureav) produce the same results? thanks.

Hi Fellas,
Been following this thread for six months now and on Friday once I get my stimulas check i'll be joining the club. However, I'm kinda stuck on one thing and need some help. Sub cable? I noticed on the website SVS promotes Bettercables and I was trying to figure out is it worth the extra money to get that cable with my new sub or would a cheap cable that I already have (belkin pureav) produce the same results? thanks.

it will produce the same results - so long as the cable is properly shielded (which i think belkin is)

I am trying to set the PEQ of my SVS PB12 Plus following the manual, but I do not understand something.
The graph shown in the manual is 5hz stepped, and also the instructions say to measure at 5hz resolution minimum.
But then when looking at the correction table for the RS Spl Meter, I do not see values like 45 55 70 75 and may others 5 hz stepped.

As I do not think the correction values for the missed frequencies are equal to 0 I wonder which values I should use to correct the measure I get by he RS Spl meter.

Thanks for your help.

ciao

That's my suspicion. Lots of times, these concert DVD's default to stereo and not the Dolby Digital or DTS track.

arango1: Make sure you're actually listening to the 5.1 track. It's possible you already are, but I know I've been disappointed numerous times before and it was something as simple as having the wrong audio track playing. Hope that fixes it.

Thanks guys, unfortunately I returned it to netflix. But I am trying more of the references in the SVS website.

Recently received a PB12+ and have enjoyed what I'm hearing thus far - coming from a 15 year-old M&K V3B. Combined factors of having a job, wife and 2 year-old leave limited opportunity to really check it out yet. However, did have 1 question regarding the 'auto-off' switch.

Is the auto-off something most folks use or something most avoid?? I primarily ask because a decent amount of viewing (mostly TV) is done at relatively low volume levels and I've noticed it hasn't triggered the sub to become active/on. Obviously, I understand there wouldn't be a huge amount of output with the combination of marginal volumes and TV viewing ... but I'm wondering if I'm missing out on anything - or just very little???

I have read most people in your situation just leave it in the on position.

Recently received a PB12+ and have enjoyed what I'm hearing thus far - coming from a 15 year-old M&K V3B. Combined factors of having a job, wife and 2 year-old leave limited opportunity to really check it out yet. However, did have 1 question regarding the 'auto-off' switch.

Is the auto-off something most folks use or something most avoid?? I primarily ask because a decent amount of viewing (mostly TV) is done at relatively low volume levels and I've noticed it hasn't triggered the sub to become active/on. Obviously, I understand there wouldn't be a huge amount of output with the combination of marginal volumes and TV viewing ... but I'm wondering if I'm missing out on anything - or just very little???

By my very short experience with the same sub, in the conditions you described, even if it you switch it on you will not notice/hear any difference.

ciao

Arango1,

Did you try both sides of the disk? I currently have this disk from netflix and it has a sideA and a sideB. They sound very different.

Thanks guys, unfortunately I returned it to netflix. But I am trying more of the references in the SVS website.

if you need more references.... check out this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=755493

Arango1,

Did you try both sides of the disk? I currently have this disk from netflix and it has a sideA and a sideB. They sound very different.

Thanks for the link DrPainMD - now I can spend years just sampling specific scenes from movies without watching any of them beginning to end! Yikes!

mike0311 ,
No, I did not, I should have been more patient... oh well.

BTW... does anyone on this forum live in Florida in the Tampa Bay area that has all this sub stuff figured out? It would be great to listen to a well calibrated sub for reference.

Need some help, please. Thinking of buying either or.

Ok, I have enough to buy the PB12 Plus. However, my room is only 12x14 with 9 feet ceiling. About 1500cu/f. Anyways, I was wondering whether it would be worth it to spend the extra on the PB12 Plus or get the PB10 NSD. I don't listen really loud but I always set my sub hot so that I can feel the impact of stuff. Can the PB10 hang with the plus drivers in a room my size? Also, I'd prefer the smaller size as well. Any advice would be appreciated.

For example, in my room, with War of the Worlds, would the Plus driver outclass the NSD driver in SPL and extension if I'm listening at -10 or so on my receiver? The PB12+ is obviously 2x the price of the PB10 but if it's worth it, I'll get it.

Need some help, please. Thinking of buying either or.

Ok, I have enough to buy the PB12 Plus. However, my room is only 12x14 with 9 feet ceiling. About 1500cu/f. Anyways, I was wondering whether it would be worth it to spend the extra on the PB12 Plus or get the PB10 NSD. I don't listen really loud but I always set my sub hot so that I can feel the impact of stuff. Can the PB10 hang with the plus drivers in a room my size? Also, I'd prefer the smaller size as well. Any advice would be appreciated.

For example, in my room, with War of the Worlds, would the Plus driver outclass the NSD driver in SPL and extension if I'm listening at -10 or so on my receiver? The PB12+ is obviously 2x the price of the PB10 but if it's worth it, I'll get it.

Why not just go in between the two, and get the PB12-NSD?

Why not just go in between the two, and get the PB12-NSD?

Is the PB12 a big improvement over the PB10? I ask because there's hardly any reviews or impressions of the PB12.

I'd personally recommend purchasing the best sub(s) you can afford. I have two PB10's in a room smaller than yours and they do a great job. However, I started with one and ended up adding a second later because I found one to be a little lacking in output. Don't get me wrong, a single PB10 was pretty visceral but since I like to watch movies and listen to music pretty loud, I could tell it was running into dynamic compression when I pushed it hard. Adding a second alleviated that issue.

You've mentioned that you don't necessarily want to listen really loud, but -10 from reference on WOTW is quite loud. WOTW is an extremely hot soundtrack with insane LFE. Some of the material on that disc is also unfortunately right at the limit of the extension of my PB10's. In my room they give me very strong output to about 16hz. The lightening strike and pods emerging scenes both have a lot of energy in the 15-20hz range, and while my PB10's do an admirable job, a larger sub like the PB12 Plus would probably do better. However, above 20hz, my dual PB10's actually have more output than a PB12 Plus (according to Ed Mullen). If you must have strong output way down deep (say 15hz or even a bit lower) the PB10 won't cut it. Keep in mind that very few movies and virtually no music contain bass that deep. The PB10 does a great job on 99% of bass out there;

Since you're considering a single PB10 vs. a PB12 Plus, I'd have to assume the Plus would produce a much more visceral, powerful experience, and since the Plus woofers are better than the NSD, you'd likely get slightly better sound quality as well. Assuming you can just have a single sub and you only consider purchasing a PB12 Plus or a PB10 I'd go with the PB12 Plus without thinking twice. However if it's between dual PB10's, a PB12-NSD, or PB12 Plus, the decision becomes much more difficult.

If you're forced to have only one sub, I'd go with either the PB12-NSD or PB12 Plus. These two will give more output than the PB10, as well as digging a little deeper and having more headroom. Cost-no-object the PB12 Plus is obviously the best choice, but if you need to be a little budget conscious, the PB12-NSD is a potent sub that will likely offer much of the PB12 Plus's performance for a lot less money. I'd recommend e-mailing or calling SVS if you haven't already to get their input as well. Best of luck, and keep us posted on your decision :).

I'd personally recommend purchasing the best sub(s) you can afford. I have two PB10's in a room smaller than yours and they do a great job. However, I started with one and ended up adding a second later because I found one to be a little lacking in output. Don't get me wrong, a single PB10 was pretty visceral but since I like to watch movies and listen to music pretty loud, I could tell it was running into dynamic compression when I pushed it hard. Adding a second alleviated that issue.

You've mentioned that you don't necessarily want to listen really loud, but -10 from reference on WOTW is quite loud. WOTW is an extremely hot soundtrack with insane LFE. Some of the material on that disc is also unfortunately right at the limit of the extension of my PB10's. In my room they give me very strong output to about 16hz. The lightening strike and pods emerging scenes both have a lot of energy in the 15-20hz range, and while my PB10's do an admirable job, a larger sub like the PB12 Plus would probably do better. However, above 20hz, my dual PB10's actually have more output than a PB12 Plus (according to Ed Mullen). If you must have strong output way down deep (say 15hz or even a bit lower) the PB10 won't cut it. Keep in mind that very few movies and virtually no music contain bass that deep. The PB10 does a great job on 99% of bass out there;

Since you're considering a single PB10 vs. a PB12 Plus, I'd have to assume the Plus would produce a much more visceral, powerful experience, and since the Plus woofers are better than the NSD, you'd likely get slightly better sound quality as well. Assuming you can just have a single sub and you only consider purchasing a PB12 Plus or a PB10 I'd go with the PB12 Plus without thinking twice. However if it's between dual PB10's, a PB12-NSD, or PB12 Plus, the decision becomes much more difficult.

If you're forced to have only one sub, I'd go with either the PB12-NSD or PB12 Plus. These two will give more output than the PB10, as well as digging a little deeper and having more headroom. Cost-no-object the PB12 Plus is obviously the best choice, but if you need to be a little budget conscious, the PB12-NSD is a potent sub that will likely offer much of the PB12 Plus's performance for a lot less money. I'd recommend e-mailing or calling SVS if you haven't already to get their input as well. Best of luck, and keep us posted on your decision :).

I would the PB10 give at -10dlb on WOTW. I've never had it up and it was too loud. I usually listen in the -17 > -22dbl depending on how hot the track is.

Should I enable or disable the crossover? To me it sounds like I get more thump out of the sub with it disabled. My receiver tells me to set my speaker crossover to 80hz and max out my crossover on the sub. I'm confused and laughing about it...Also, what is the best/safe level for the gain dial on the PB12-nsd. Right now im at 2/3 maxed or just on the middle.

Should I enable or disable the crossover? To me it sounds like I get more thump out of the sub with it disabled. My receiver tells me to est my speaker crossover to 80hz and max out my crossover on the speaker. I'm confused and laughing about it...Also, what is the best/safe level for the gain dial on the PB12-nsd. Right now I'm at 2/3 maxed or just on the middle.Some subs don't have a crossover disable switch, so you have to set it at the highest setting and set your AVR to 80Hz, which should be well below the subs crossover. Since the PB12 has a crossover disable switch, it doesn't matter where you set the dial.

On the gain, I wouldn't go any higher than 1/2 way. I have mine set to about 1/4 way up (9:00 position). Use the AVR to set the correct and balanced level.

So, enable crossover switch to max(granted speakers are all set to small and 80hz) OR disable(speakers are all set to small and 80hz). Which one is a better setting overall?

So, enable crossover switch to max(granted speakers are all set to small and 80hz) OR disable(speakers are all set to small and 80hz). Which one is a better setting overall?Put the enabled/disabled switch on the sub to disabled. Once disabled, it doesn't matter where the crossover dial on the sub is set as it is disabled.
On the sub, set crossover switch to disabled, phase to 0, gain to about the 10:00 position.

On the AVR, set all speaker channels to small, sub to on or yes, crossover to 80 Hz.

Now run through the calibration procedures you can find all over this forum.

When the crossover dial is disabled and my speakers are set to small/crossover set to 80 hz: all frequencies lower than 80 hz will go to my sub. Is this right?

When the crossover dial is diabled and my speakers are set to small/crossover set to 80 hz: all frequencies lower than 80 hz will go to my sub. Is this right?
Correct. It is not a hard crossover. Frequencies below the crossover will roll off sharply to the speakers and will roll up sharply to the sub.

I finally found my sweet spot for my pb12nsd. This is better than having it on the left corner close to the left tower. I put on LOTR-fellowship of the ring and it rocked my basement when Sauron's finger get chopped. Thanks for the help.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9756/htsetup3mm1.th.jpg (http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=htsetup3mm1.jpg)

When the crossover dial is disabled and my speakers are set to small/crossover set to 80 hz: all frequencies lower than 80 hz will go to my sub. Is this right?

The crossover point is in reality only a region where the sound pressure level, (or volume), of those frequencies will start diminishing in accordance with the crossover order or slope. For example, if your crossover is 80 hz, it doesn't mean that there is a stonewall that prevents frequencies below 80 hz from going to your mains. It just means that the sound level of these frequencies is going to be reduced, (most likely by 12dbl), by the time you go down one octave from 80 hz. But you are still going to have a significant amount of frequencies below that 80 hz crossover point going to your mains, probably all the way down to around 45 hz or so. This is the misconception of many owners when purchasing mains. They believe that it is a waste to buy a larger main with low extension because those low frequencies just go to the sub. This is not true. Yes, the low frequencies do start to go to the sub at the crossover point. But the transition is very gradual. You still get a lot of low frequency content going to the mains. By the time you get down to that mark, your subwoofer is doing most of the work... not your mains. This makes integrating your sub to your mains easier.

I got a question for fellow svs owners primarily pb-10 nsd. I bought my pb-10 about three weeks ago and just two days ago I watched a movie called Pulse and at the last scene. It had EXTREMELY heavy bass 15-20hz on a loop. It sounded almost like a clapping sound and when I looked at the woofer it was moving like crazy with full excursion. After that movie I've noticed when watching movies that I watched a couple weeks ago it sounds totally different and I even had to turn the gain down a little because it sounded more boomy than the last time I watched the movie and now i'm noticing a little distortion. I've also noticed the the woofer moves a lot more now. Well my question is, do these subs get broken in after heavy use or did I break my sub by pushing it too hard?

I got a question for fellow svs owners primarily pb-10 nsd. I bought my pb-10 about three weeks ago and just two days ago I watched a movie called Pulse and at the last scene. It had EXTREMELY heavy bass 15-20hz on a loop. It sounded almost like a clapping sound and when I looked at the woofer it was moving like crazy with full excursion. After that movie I've noticed when watching movies that I watched a couple weeks ago it sounds totally different and I even had to turn the gain down a little because it sounded more boomy than the last time I watched the movie and now i'm noticing a little distortion. I've also noticed the the woofer moves a lot more now. Well my question is, do these subs get broken in after heavy use or did I break my sub by pushing it too hard?

They do get broken in some, (not to a degree that I would call noticeable, though), but my concern is that that clapping sound that you heard may have been the sub bottoming out during that scene. I believe that the sub does have a limitator to protect the driver from extreme excursions that could damage it. You may have reached a certain limiting factor in that Pulse passage, so I would get in touch with Ed at SVS if you have any concerns that your sub may not be functioning as it should. There should be no distortion or boominess from your PB10 NSD.

I got a question for fellow svs owners primarily pb-10 nsd. I bought my pb-10 about three weeks ago and just two days ago I watched a movie called Pulse and at the last scene. It had EXTREMELY heavy bass 15-20hz on a loop. It sounded almost like a clapping sound and when I looked at the woofer it was moving like crazy with full excursion. After that movie I've noticed when watching movies that I watched a couple weeks ago it sounds totally different and I even had to turn the gain down a little because it sounded more boomy than the last time I watched the movie and now i'm noticing a little distortion. I've also noticed the the woofer moves a lot more now. Well my question is, do these subs get broken in after heavy use or did I break my sub by pushing it too hard?

It sounds like you have not calibrated your subwoofer. If you do not have a SPL meter, run, don't walk, to your nearest Radio Shack and get one. Pulse has some *extreme* low bass, and if you calibrated by ear, it's very likely your sub was quite hot, and that scene is a bit much for the PB10 if it is played too hot. The odds of damage, however, are very slim.

-Robb

Hey thanks guys. I'm working on getting a spl meter and calibrating my sub. I got a Onkyo 705 I set the lpf of lfe to 120hz and set the gain on the sub at a little over half at about the 1 o'clock position and just ran with that. I've determined that the distortion I thought I was hearing was actually the shelf on the wall where the sub is was vibrating against the wall. I turned down the level calibration on the reciever to -2 and left everything the same and now it sounds perfect. I'm still going to get a meter to calibrate it and my other speakers.

hey guys i have a pair of logitech 2.1 speakers that i have hooked up to my computer. can i disconnect the sub from my logitech speakers and plug in my pb12/plus2 instead? good idea or bad idea?

Normally computer speakers require the subwoofer because the amplifiers for the main channels are also located in the sub cabinet.

Some folks use a 1/8" jack splitter and send one output to the PC speakers and the other output to a powered subwoofer (with a 1/8 -> RCA cable). You have to set the volume controls on the speakers and powered sub to match, then use the master sound card volume to control them in tandem.

Normally computer speakers require the subwoofer because the amplifiers for the main channels are also located in the sub cabinet.

Some folks use a 1/8" jack splitter and send one output to the PC speakers and the other output to a powered subwoofer (with a 1/8 -> RCA cable). You have to set the volume controls on the speakers and powered sub to match, then use the master sound card volume to control them in tandem.
thanks for the quick reply... does that mean i would have to have two settings for my svs sub? one for the computer and one for the HT? if so, then this sounds like more hassle than its worth

Yeah if you want to use your HT sub with the computer then just hook your PC sound card up to your receiver and forget about the Logitech speakers.

Yeah if you want to use your HT sub with the computer then just hook your PC sound card up to your receiver and forget about the Logitech speakers.
the problem is my computer is next to my sub but my sub is far from my receiver/tv so i can't really hookup my computer to my receiver. since the sub was so close to my computer i figured i could give it a try but i'm guessing its not a good idea.

thanks though!

The manual for my 25-31pc-plus states that it is only necessary to use either the L or R low level inputs to connect the receiver's sub output to the sub. In my case it makes a substantial difference if I connect it to both L & R inputs using a Y-cable. Why would this be? (Note: it is connected via a Behringer Eq)

I always wondered why my sub level control had to be set so high (2 o'clock).

Now after connecting with the Y-cable it is backed off to 11 o'clock to achieve the same level.

I have proved this again by connecting each one of the two rca connectors on the Y-cable in turn seperately and, sure enough, the level drops by about 10-12db.

This doesnt make sense to me considering the statements in the manual that only connection to either the left or right input is necessary - could it be something to do with having the Behringer in the loop?

The manual for my 25-31pc-plus states that it is only necessary to use either the L or R low level inputs to connect the receiver's sub output to the sub. In my case it makes a substantial difference if I connect it to both L & R inputs using a Y-cable. Why would this be? (Note: it is connected via a Behringer Eq)

I always wondered why my sub level control had to be set so high (2 o'clock).

Now after connecting with the Y-cable it is backed off to 11 o'clock to achieve the same level.

I have proved this again by connecting each one of the two rca connectors on the Y-cable in turn separately and, sure enough, the level drops by about 10-12db.

This doesn't make sense to me considering the statements in the manual that only connection to either the left or right input is necessary - could it be something to do with having the Behringer in the loop?
When you split the input signal to both the left and right inputs, you have no (or minimal) signal loss to each side. When you feed this split signal to both inputs, the preamp section sums both inputs together. This gives the input a stronger signal as if you increased the output gain on the AVR. This allows you to decrease the gain on the sub's amp.

I'm about order one of the SB12-Plus and PCi 25-31. Normally I wouldn't discuss it and go for the PCi 25-31 but due to the size of the PCi I'm leaning towards the SB12.

Below is my living room layout. As you can see the room is a total of about 3200 cubic feet (2600 liv.room and 600 kitchen). In red are the possible spots of placing the sub (behind the couch is not an option since I'll get some on-wall surrounds and push the couch all the way to the back wall).

Do you think the SB12 will be able to fill this room adequately? I contacted SVS and they suggested that due to the size of the room it will need, at least, the PCi 25-31 or the PSB-12NSD. However, as someone suggested in another forum these suggestions are for achieving reference levels in a room, but I never listen at really loud levels (in other words I can easily carry out a loud conversation during a movie).

So what will I get less if I go for the SB12, especially at moderate levels that I usually listen? Will I notice the difference in terms of response and depth if I get the PCi 25-31? Do you think its a risk to get the SB12? I don't have an option to return it since I'm placing an order overseas.

If I were you I'd get the 25-31PC PLUS. It might be a little more than you were thinking, but trust me the triple ports, bigger and better amp, and the plus woofer make it one amazing value!

If you don't want to spend that much....I'd go the 25-31 route over the sb12 because of your room size.


Just from looking at your room too, I think I'd run the sub in one of the back corners behind your seating area. Running it upfront by the mains I think is a bad idea because of how open that area is. The rear allows corner placements which is best for a sub in my opinion.

I'm about order one of the SB12-Plus and PCi 25-31. Normally I wouldn't discuss it and go for the PCi 25-31 but due to the size of the PCi I'm leaning towards the SB12.

Below is my living room layout. As you can see the room is a total of about 3200 cubic feet (2600 liv.room and 600 kitchen). In red are the possible spots of placing the sub (behind the couch is not an option since I'll get some on-wall surrounds and push the couch all the way to the back wall).

Do you think the SB12 will be able to fill this room adequately? I contacted SVS and they suggested that due to the size of the room it will need, at least, the PCi 25-31 or the PSB-12NSD. However, as someone suggested in another forum these suggestions are for achieving reference levels in a room, but I never listen at really loud levels (in other words I can easily carry out a loud conversation during a movie).

So what will I get less if I go for the SB12, especially at moderate levels that I usually listen? Will I notice the difference in terms of response and depth if I get the PCi 25-31? Do you think its a risk to get the SB12? I don't have an option to return it since I'm placing an order overseas.

You would certainly notice a difference between the SB and the PCi below about 30hz at any volume. The little SB is great for it's size, but can't quite get down like the big boys. This wouldn't be very obvious with music, but with movies, yes. Since you don't listen too loud, overall output shouldn't be a problem in either case.

Mojo...you all know how we get. Once you hear good bass..you turn it up a little more and a little more :)

I think the PC or the PC+ for him is the way to go with a 3000 cuft room, and the layout is pretty open too.

so is TV officially out of SVS? I've heard some unconfirmed confirmations from audio insiders, but hopefully Ed or Ron can shed a little light.

will SVS change its name, or did they come to an agreement for the name?

just curious. :)

SS has a nice ring to it :eek:

SMS also sounds very familiar :D

If they change their name, they should have it as Subsonic. Sounds cool.

Thanks for the help. I chose performance over appearance and ordered the PCi 25-31.

Cheers!

Thanks for the help. I chose performance over appearance and ordered the PCi 25-31.

Cheers!

You won't be sorry.

Picked up a used PB12-NSD the other week. Is there any way to decipher when the unit was made by the serial number on back? I'm just curious about that.

I bought this with the intention that I could get my money back if I didn't like it. Well...........The unit sounds great. I found a spot where I'll only need one band of peq to tame a nasty bump at 40hz and I'll be good to go.

I do about 75% music and 25% movies. I was surprised at how much the sub improved music even with pretty much nothing below 40hz. I guess it let's my mains "breath" a little easier (mains are Carver Platinum MKIV's with 4 12" woofers per speaker by the way).

REQ confirms this puppy is flat to 18hz and plays quite loud for a 12" driver. I am now a believer that even if your system does not "require" a sub, It can still benifit from one if properly implemented.

Picked up a used PB12-NSD the other week. Is there any way to decipher when the unit was made by the serial number on back? I'm just curious about that.

I bought this with the intention that I could get my money back if I didn't like it. Well...........The unit sounds great. I found a spot where I'll only need one band of peq to tame a nasty bump at 40hz and I'll be good to go.

I do about 75% music and 25% movies. I was surprised at how much the sub improved music even with pretty much nothing below 40hz. I guess it let's my mains "breath" a little easier (mains are Carver Platinum MKIV's with 4 12" woofers per speaker by the way).

REQ confirms this puppy is flat to 18hz and plays quite loud for a 12" driver. I am now a believer that even if your system does not "require" a sub, It can still benifit from one if properly implemented.I've heard your Carvers on tube monos, tube pre and DAC, wonderful speakers. It's hard for me to imagine adding a sub for anything but movies. Still, the PB12 will hit harder and calibrated flat can take some of the strain off, as you say and the CAs need a ton of current. Glad it's working for you.

My speaks aren't bass shy either (SDAs), but not in the Plats league. For 2 channel music, no sub, MCH = yes, HT for sure.

Picked up a used PB12-NSD the other week. Is there any way to decipher when the unit was made by the serial number on back? I'm just curious about that.

I bought this with the intention that I could get my money back if I didn't like it. Well...........The unit sounds great. I found a spot where I'll only need one band of peq to tame a nasty bump at 40hz and I'll be good to go.

I do about 75% music and 25% movies. I was surprised at how much the sub improved music even with pretty much nothing below 40hz. I guess it let's my mains "breath" a little easier (mains are Carver Platinum MKIV's with 4 12" woofers per speaker by the way).

REQ confirms this puppy is flat to 18hz and plays quite loud for a 12" driver. I am now a believer that even if your system does not "require" a sub, It can still benifit from one if properly implemented.


My system application is also around 75% music and around 25% movies. A lot of factors can certainly influence a preference between 2.0 and 2.1, but to me the biggest factor aside from having great speakers is the source... your AVR or stereo amp. Most AVRs are simply not equipped to deliver the full spectrum of frequencies consistently at the same level. The power requirements of conveying the lower portion of the frequencies at the same consistent level and dynamic capabilities as the higher portion of frequencies taxes most amps beyond their capabilities, specially at higher levels. It takes much more power to convey the lower frequencies, and as a result, the overall sound quality of even great main speakers suffer if your amp lacks the power or current to drive all drivers effectively and effortlessly. Having a quality sub with it's own power supply releases the amp from having to take on this burden. The amp can dedicate all it's power resources to the range of frequencies that includes the mids and highs, and they will sound far better. And a good quality sub with a dedicated low frequency driver set in a properly engineered cabinet with a good power supply adds so much more to the overall quality of sound of the low frequencies.

I do listen to two channel music every once in awhile, but I am pretty much a 2.1 guy for music applications.

SDA's. I'd like to have a pair of those myself!

I agree an extra amp for <80hz helps things out even with quality and sufficient power. I'm now essentially bi-amping a three way system instead of running a passive two way.

I'm just surprised that it makes such a difference even with music content that doesn't really contian any real low freq's. I was also surprised that some music I listene to does have low freq content (<30hz) that I was missing.

I guess an old dog CAN learn new tricks!

Can't wait to get my Integra 9.8!

SDA's. I'd like to have a pair of those myself!

I agree an extra amp for <80hz helps things out even with quality and sufficient power. I'm now essentially bi-amping a three way system instead of running a passive two way.

I'm just surprised that it makes such a difference even with music content that doesn't really contian any real low freq's. I was also surprised that some music I listene to does have low freq content (<30hz) that I was missing.

I guess an old dog CAN learn new tricks!

Can't wait to get my Integra 9.8!A 9.8 is on my radar too. Yes, there's a bunch of content below 30hz on some of my recordings. I'm using a pb13 to fill in my bottom, but on many recordings it's nice, but too much and masks some of the 60-200hz midbass that my mains do better. A friend just picked up some Plats locally. He might lend them to me. My front end is ok, but not close to how I heard them...still I'd like to give them an audition.
I've got the mid-size SDAs 1Cs/2Bs and had a pair of CRS +s...just fine for my 2000 cube room...the big boys need some space for the scale, but they aren't necessarily superior (room dependent).

Does anyone have the manual for the SVS 20-39PCI? I looked around on SVS's site but couldn't find anything. If you have it could you post it here or PM me. Thanks

Does anyone have the manual for the SVS 20-39PCI? I looked around on SVS's site but couldn't find anything. If you have it could you post it here or PM me. Thanks

I believe this is the most current one:

http://www.svsound.com/manuals/SVS_v2007.1_PCi_manual.pdf

-Robb

just got my SVS pc+ 20-39 yesterday, didnt bother calibrating it as Ive been waiting a week for it to arrive.. first thing i did was watched cloverfield.. OMG BASS!!!

today i took time to calibrate everything with the spl meter, and watched cloverfield , pearl harbor.. Even more OMG BASS!!!

haha loving this sub~

I love my 16-46PCi. The only reason I am selling it is because I am getting ready to move and I need a shorter sub. Likely going with a PB12-NSD though some other sub companies have me looking. Lots of research to do. What I buy next might depend more on how soon I sell the 16-46PCi then other factors.

I need help! Got my first real sub (sb12-plus atop subdude) and using radioshack spl meter with correction values from home theater shack forum. Trying to tame this beast. I am using the test tones from the cd that av123 sells (1/3 octave). Getting peaks around 20, 40, 60 and 80 Hz (receiver crossover set at 100Hz). Only have one peq (on the sub), can't fix them all? Sub is placed behind recliners and against the back wall. Tried it facing forwards (shooting through/between the recliners) and off to the side (parallel to back wall). Not too much difference either way. Obviosly I should lower the gain a bit, but the large variations will still be there. Not sure what to do next. Not much room in any room corners or up front either. Should I just get an sms-1? My budget doesn't want me too :)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/1838/graphiu4.png

Edit: Added calculated room modes: m=1,2,3,... Freq = (m*1130) / (2*D) where D is a given room dimension.

Red: ceiling to floor 9'
Magenta: front wall to back wall 13'
Blue: left wall to kitchen bar 16' 6"
Green: left wall to kitchen wall 27' 3"

mhatter -- You didn't tell us what the size of your room is. It looks like you are battling room resonances. You might want to move the sub off the wall (say placing between the recliners, for a test). I have a similar problem, due to my room dimensions - a natural resonance at about 44Hz & 88Hz (13' x 26' room).

Moving the sub to an entirely different location should help. Putting it in a corner of the room might help too (to boost the low end - below 40Hz). Subs do not have to be aimed at the listening position either, since the low frequencies are not directional (I assume you are aware of that, though).

NOTE: You also might want to get the Rives Audio Test CD2 ($21 - http://www.rivesaudio.com/software/softframes.html). It has one test section that is corrected for the Radio Shack SPL meter, so you don't have to compensate for its response curve. I have the Test CD2 and the RS analog SPL meter and it works great. Rives Audio is in the custom room audio calibration business, BTW.

Added room modes to above graph.

Thanks for the Rives tip. It is weird that the adjusted values they list are different than the ones on the Home Theater Shack Forum. Maybe theirs are for the old meter? I should email them.

Going to try more of a corner placement tommorrow I guess.

I currently have a PB12-NSD and it does all the bass demo scenes really well running it about +6db hot. But with the Irene scene in Blackhawk Down it doesn't really get that loud...I understand it's low frequency...if I turn my system to about -10db volume i start to get what this scene is all about but it is really working my PB12-NSD....is this just because the PB12-NSD is not tuned below 20hz? I just need to play it louder? Can I ruin my sub with this scene? Again other bass scenes are heaps loud and I'm not near -10db volume...thanks :)

I currently have a PB12-NSD and it does all the bass demo scenes really well running it about +6db hot. But with the Irene scene in Blackhawk Down it doesn't really get that loud...I understand it's low frequency...if I turn my system to about -10db volume i start to get what this scene is all about but it is really working my PB12-NSD....is this just because the PB12-NSD is not tuned below 20hz? I just need to play it louder? Can I ruin my sub with this scene? Again other bass scenes are heaps loud and I'm not near -10db volume...thanks :)

I have a pb12 nsd and the Irene scene isnt' super impressive for me either. Nor was it with my prior pb 10 NSD. But it is better with the pb12 nsd.

I think the Irene scene is more really really low frequency -- below the capability of the pb12 nsd. It doesn't have a lot in the higher frequencies which is where you get that real bass oomph. The real low low stuff is more subtle.

Don't sweat it. I'm sure your pb12-nsd is fine. That Irene scene isn't really loud -- its just really low.

I have a pb12 nsd and the Irene scene isnt' super impressive for me either. Nor was it with my prior pb 10 NSD. But it is better with the pb12 nsd.

I think the Irene scene is more really really low frequency -- below the capability of the pb12 nsd. It doesn't have a lot in the higher frequencies which is where you get that real bass oomph. The real low low stuff is more subtle.

Don't sweat it. I'm sure your pb12-nsd is fine. That Irene scene isn't really loud -- its just really low.

You got that right. The heaviest part of the scene has most of it's energy between 5 to 10hz. No conventional subs will really do it justice. A large IB system or a rotary sub is what it takes to really play that scene.

The PB12 NSD is tuned to 18Hz, and it should go down below to around 15Hz - 16Hz or so with room gain, (depending on the room and the location of the sub within the room). That scene is, however, below the tuning frequency of the sub.

What are the chances of a PB10 ULTRA in the future for those of us who don't want monster sized subs?

It seems to me that if you want a higher quality small sub, you have to pay through the nose.

Happy PB10 owner here but in the future if I decide to upgrade, I don't want a bigger sub, only something that sounds better with more depth and detail in a 10".

What are the chances of a PB10 ULTRA in the future for those of us who don't want monster sized subs?

It seems to me that if you want a higher quality small sub, you have to pay through the nose.

Happy PB10 owner here but in the future if I decide to upgrade, I don't want a bigger sub, only something that sounds better with more depth and detail in a 10".Ya never know :) ...and no I don't know anything.

Ya never know :) ...and no I don't know anything.

i was supposed to reply to that one ... but deleted it at the last second.
:)

Does anyone have a link to the manual for the 20-39 PC Plus? It has vanished mysteriously from my media room . . .

I bought my 3rd subwoofer (first was a 8" Velodyne, 2nd was a PS1000 Paradigm) from SVS, it was a 20-39 CS
(ser#166 now w/ISD) along with a Samson S700 amp. When I first got the sub and hooked it up I thought I got ripped off!! But after I learned more about subs and how to set them up I found out the potential I had. I went from boomy bass to clean/tight bass, and I thought I got ripped off. In my original purchase from SVS I had acquired a bad amp which had 1 bad channel, (even though all I needed was 1), SVS cross shipped me a new samson amp!!(Did I mention I am in Canada?) After a while I actually couldn't believe how much bass my SVS was giving off. Later I added a second cylinder sub made by my brother built around a Dayton DVC woof, added to the second channel of the samson amp. Well, holy crap, the bass was just incredible to say the least. I've shown my HT system off to many people over the years and the one thing they all are in awe about is the bass!! I emailed Tom V once when they came out with their line of box subs, whether a PB12-Plus/2 could replace my current setup, and he talked me out of it, saying that it probably wouldn't put out more SPLs! Here is a list of my current equipment:
Pioneer PRO-150FD
Marantz SR-7500
Parasound HCA-1205A
Samson S700
SVS CS20-39
DIY Dayton 12" DVC Sonosub
Paradigm Studio 40 v2
Paradigm Studio CC570
Axiom QS8s & QS4
PS3
HTPC

I am now starting to research for equipment for my dedicated HT room and it's a no brainer, SVS (PB13 Ultra Rosenut) is on the top of my list. My experience with SVS was a great one, and their customer service is second to none. Now we have a Canadian dealer (Sonic Boom Audio) which will make the process even easier.

Thanks for reading.
Steve

I currently have a PB12-NSD and it does all the bass demo scenes really well running it about +6db hot. But with the Irene scene in Blackhawk Down it doesn't really get that loud...I understand it's low frequency...if I turn my system to about -10db volume i start to get what this scene is all about but it is really working my PB12-NSD....is this just because the PB12-NSD is not tuned below 20hz? I just need to play it louder? Can I ruin my sub with this scene? Again other bass scenes are heaps loud and I'm not near -10db volume...thanks :)

I noticed the same thing and I'm running a PB13 Ultra (ported at 15 Hz). I felt a deep rumble, but nothing compared to what I've experienced with other movies (Ice Age and Beowulf come to mind) at the same volume.

The Irene scene in BHD does have content at 5-10 Hz, but the majority of the infrasonic content in Irene within the reach of conventional subwoofers occurs at 18 Hz. There are also major bands at 32/43/55/63 Hz.

The PB12-NSD is tuned to 17-18 Hz and can easily reproduce the 18 Hz band. With that said, 18 Hz is not a frequency which imparts a great deal of slam/impact (such as might occur with other movies with bass spectaculars in the 30-60 Hz band).

Properly reproducing the 18 Hz band in Irene simply adds weight/foundation/realism to the passage, but it will not result in a lot of slam/impact. If you swapped in a typical brick/mortar subwoofer which only extends to 30-35 Hz, the difference between it and the PB12-NSD would be immediately apparent on the Irene scene.

Does anyone have a link to the manual for the 20-39 PC Plus? It has vanished mysteriously from my media room . . .

I believe this is the most recent one:

http://www.svsound.com/manuals/SVS_v2007.1_PCPlus_manual.pdf

-Robb

Hi all. Been awhile since I've posted here. I purchased/imported a SVS B4+ sub about 5 years ago (I live in Australia) and currently have it powered by a Quest 3400 power amp bridged to 2100watts (Aussie made). I recently purchased Cloverfield on Blu-Ray and also bought a Panasonic BD-30 blu-Ray player. This is connected to an Onyko SR-805 receiver (using as pre-pro) via HDMI. Now I've come to accept this movie as one of my main test discs for bass. I used to use my PS3 for BDs but decided to get a player that bitstreamed the new audio. The first thing I noticed was all my speaker levels have increased since connecting the BD-30 including bass output. I've installed the new firmware for the BD-30 and I watched Cloverfield and to my surprise I heard a rattle coming from the sub. I turned everything else off except the sub and played back the same scene. Now for those that are familar with this movie the scene that has alot of bass is when the army takes on the monster for the first time when the group are walking down the street and the foot comes down and rockets fly over head. The one bit that has a really low bass hit is when the army guy fires off his bazzooka and it hits the creature. Just after it hits there's this really deep bass rumble and it's very low and loud. That's when one of the drivers rattles and it sound like metal hitting metal 3-4 times. I recently had my system HAA calibrated so all my levels are set to 75db at the reference point which is 0 volume on the receiver. I had the receiver on -16 when the rattle occured. Play the scene at -17db and it doesn't rattle. Bass is impressive but I'm concerned I've damaged the driver or I've found it's limits. I've contacted SVS and they are assisting me in my problem but I'm just not sure if the driver is damaged or it's simply being pushed too hard. I took the grills off and watched both drivers that are visible on both ends of the sub and they really push out during that scene but I hear this rattle. I've posted my thoughts and asking why my volume levels are now higher since implementing the BD-30 on a local forum and I'm waiting for some replies. Anyone else have issues with their subs not handling Cloverfield? I know there's a thread on the Fathom sub thread on this site that says that the dvd version had a audio issue only at the start with the bad robot logo coming on the screen followed by 4 bass rumbles. The last one was causing peoples subs to clip. My sub doesn't have a problem with that bit on the BD only with that scene I mentioned above. Sorry for the long post but I'm a little concerned at the moment and in 2 minds. Do I replace one of the drivers or simply turn it down a notch. I've never encountered a damaged driver before and dont know what to look for. Thanks in advance.

Located a used PB10 but it is bronze color.

I need black, anyone have any ideas on possibly refinishing it in black?

I'm purchasing an SVS 25-32 CS and was wondering if anyone could recommend a decent but reasonably priced amplifier to drive this. It's listed as 350watt RMS.
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-cspas3.cfm

Thanks!

Hi all. Been awhile since I've posted here. I purchased/imported a SVS B4+ sub about 5 years ago (I live in Australia) and currently have it powered by a Quest 3400 power amp bridged to 2100watts (Aussie made). I recently purchased Cloverfield on Blu-Ray and also bought a Panasonic BD-30 blu-Ray player. This is connected to an Onyko SR-805 receiver (using as pre-pro) via HDMI. Now I've come to accept this movie as one of my main test discs for bass. I used to use my PS3 for BDs but decided to get a player that bitstreamed the new audio. The first thing I noticed was all my speaker levels have increased since connecting the BD-30 including bass output. I've installed the new firmware for the BD-30 and I watched Cloverfield and to my surprise I heard a rattle coming from the sub. I turned everything else off except the sub and played back the same scene. Now for those that are familar with this movie the scene that has alot of bass is when the army takes on the monster for the first time when the group are walking down the street and the foot comes down and rockets fly over head. The one bit that has a really low bass hit is when the army guy fires off his bazzooka and it hits the creature. Just after it hits there's this really deep bass rumble and it's very low and loud. That's when one of the drivers rattles and it sound like metal hitting metal 3-4 times. I recently had my system HAA calibrated so all my levels are set to 75db at the reference point which is 0 volume on the receiver. I had the receiver on -16 when the rattle occured. Play the scene at -17db and it doesn't rattle. Bass is impressive but I'm concerned I've damaged the driver or I've found it's limits. I've contacted SVS and they are assisting me in my problem but I'm just not sure if the driver is damaged or it's simply being pushed too hard. I took the grills off and watched both drivers that are visible on both ends of the sub and they really push out during that scene but I hear this rattle. I've posted my thoughts and asking why my volume levels are now higher since implementing the BD-30 on a local forum and I'm waiting for some replies. Anyone else have issues with their subs not handling Cloverfield? I know there's a thread on the Fathom sub thread on this site that says that the dvd version had a audio issue only at the start with the bad robot logo coming on the screen followed by 4 bass rumbles. The last one was causing peoples subs to clip. My sub doesn't have a problem with that bit on the BD only with that scene I mentioned above. Sorry for the long post but I'm a little concerned at the moment and in 2 minds. Do I replace one of the drivers or simply turn it down a notch. I've never encountered a damaged driver before and dont know what to look for. Thanks in advance.

WHat is the tuning freq for that sub?
Your sub may be unloading if your amp doesn't have a subsonic filter in it...
THat movie has very very strong infrasonics...

What are the chances of a PB10 ULTRA in the future for those of us who don't want monster sized subs?

It seems to me that if you want a higher quality small sub, you have to pay through the nose.

Happy PB10 owner here but in the future if I decide to upgrade, I don't want a bigger sub, only something that sounds better with more depth and detail in a 10".

I would be willing to upgrade my PB-10 NSD to a PB-10 Ultra. They could implement a driver similar to the PB-13's and couple it to a 750 watt BASH amp. How sweet that would be? It would win WAF hands down.

Located a used PB10 but it is bronze color.

I need black, anyone have any ideas on possibly refinishing it in black?I have never seen the PB10 in anything but black, white, and silver (gray). If it is bronze, the owner may have already refinished it. It is a vinyl cover, so with the right kind of paint, you can paint it. Or get some quality vinyl of your choosing and recover it. If you are really handy, you could also put veneer on it to give it wood grain.

I have never seen the PB10 in anything but black, white, and silver (gray). If it is bronze, the owner may have already refinished it.

Bronze was a short-lived color when the PB10 was first introduced.

-Robb

Owner says it definitely is the original color, can probably get it for a good price, just not sure about refinishing

All of my other equipment is black, so bronze is a no go

WHat is the tuning freq for that sub?
Your sub may be unloading if your amp doesn't have a subsonic filter in it...


I have 3 of the ports blocked with the foam plugs. Sorry I dont believe the amp has a subsonic filter as it's just a pro-audio stero amp which I have bridged for high output 2100watts in bridge mode. Sorry the model for the power amp is Quest 3000 not 3400 that's their new model.Here is a link with the specs of the amp:

http://steinskog.no/documents/88_23.html

The crossover I have set on the receiver is 80hz for all speakers including sub. Boundary gain is off but under THX settings for sub THX certified sub I have selected yes.

I have 3 of the ports blocked with the foam plugs. Sorry I dont believe the amp has a subsonic filter as it's just a pro-audio stero amp which I have bridged for high output 2100watts in bridge mode. Sorry the model for the power amp is Quest 3000 not 3400 that's their new model.Here is a link with the specs of the amp:

http://steinskog.no/documents/88_23.html

The crossover I have set on the receiver is 80hz for all speakers including sub. Boundary gain is off but under THX settings for sub THX certified sub I have selected yes.As cachi said, you're probably overdriving your sub. If that driver isn't fried, try raising the tune, take a couple of plugs out and running it no lower than 20hz tune.

So did SVS come out with anything new at CEDIA?

So did SVS come out with anything new at CEDIA?


Not sure about that.... but this is new... Hows that....

https://svsound.com/products-sub-box-plus.cfm
New for 2009 - PB12-Plus

https://svsound.com/products/subs/pb12plus/new_pb12plus/new_pb12plus_front_grill_thumbnail.jpg

I have 3 of the ports blocked with the foam plugs. Sorry I dont believe the amp has a subsonic filter as it's just a pro-audio stero amp which I have bridged for high output 2100watts in bridge mode. Sorry the model for the power amp is Quest 3000 not 3400 that's their new model.Here is a link with the specs of the amp:

http://steinskog.no/documents/88_23.html

The crossover I have set on the receiver is 80hz for all speakers including sub. Boundary gain is off but under THX settings for sub THX certified sub I have selected yes.

Yep do what Ron said, don't use that sub sealed...Leave all ports open please it has too much drivers in it...haha
Your settings seem fine and that is a very very powerful sub but with its ports open...
You can buy an elemental designs EQ.2 that posseses an subsonic filter in it as well as an EQ...($100) Put the subsonic filter a few hz above/at the tuning freq you choose.

Not sure about that.... but this is new... Hows that....

https://svsound.com/products-sub-box-plus.cfm
New for 2009 - PB12-Plus

https://svsound.com/products/subs/pb12plus/new_pb12plus/new_pb12plus_front_grill_thumbnail.jpg


Hey! It's that front-firing PB12+ we've been wondering about! When did that show up?

Yep do what Ron said, don't use that sub sealed...Leave all ports open please it has too much drivers in it...haha
Your settings seem fine and that is a very very powerful sub but with its ports open...
You can buy an elemental designs EQ.2 that posseses an subsonic filter in it as well as an EQ...($100) Put the subsonic filter a few hz above/at the tuning freq you choose.

Ok. I remember when I first got this sub and found with all ports open it was too boomy and lacked deep punch. I prefer to run it with two ports blocked and 2 open but when i encounted the issue I had 3 ports blocked so will only have 2 blocked and see if I get the same issue. Thanks for the responses guys appreciate the help.

Also does SVS still provide replacement foam port blocks? I have a friend who I've convinced to go SVS and there's only one supplier here in Australia his looking at getting the SB-12. Personally I would love to hear the PB Ultra 13 and see how different it sounds compared to my B4+.

I have a question. I own a new PB10. Yesterday while watching the shootout fight scene near the end of Transformers on Blu-ray, I noticed the sub "click" during one of the bass passages. It kept doing its job after that I didn't hear it again. The volume is set from my receiver at -23 and the sub's gain is just past halfway. I hope I didn't damage anything.

Not sure about that.... but this is new... Hows that....

https://svsound.com/products-sub-box-plus.cfm
New for 2009 - PB12-Plus

https://svsound.com/products/subs/pb12plus/new_pb12plus/new_pb12plus_front_grill_thumbnail.jpg

Good catch on that. Interesting that there is no news release on it, and if you click on the preorder it takes you to some sort of SBS-01 and SCS-01 review?

Seems like there will be news about it tomorrow.

I have a question. I own a new PB10. Yesterday while watching the shootout fight scene near the end of Transformers on Blu-ray, I noticed the sub "click" during one of the bass passages. It kept doing its job after that I didn't hear it again. The volume is set from my receiver at -23 and the sub's gain is just past halfway. I hope I didn't damage anything.

The PB10-NSD is very difficult to damage, even when deliberately overdriven. It typically will simply stop getting louder (the limiter will kick-in), but it can be forced into minor signs of distress (woofer noise or port chuffing) when pushed very hard. I'm sure the subwoofer is fine.

The gain setting on the subwoofer is not meaningful when viewed in isolation, as the calibration level is a function of both the pre-out signal strength and the gain setting combined.

Please make sure the subwoofer is properly calibrated using test tones and an SPL meter, or the AVR auto set-up routine. The subwoofer level should be at or slightly below that of the speakers. Typically I recommend 75 dB speakers and 73-74 dB subwoofer (85 speakers /83-84 subwoofer for Avia).

If you need additional set-up advice, please feel free to contact us at techsupport@svsound.com. Thanks!

Also does SVS still provide replacement foam port blocks?

We can get you 4" port blockers for your B4-Plus. If Deep Hz Audio doesn't carry them, we can ship them directly to you from Ohio.

Have you resolved the issues with your B4-Plus to your satisfaction? If not, please continue with Deep Hz Audio and/or Tech Support. Thanks Simon. :)

I posted this in the other thread, but I figured I would post it here as well...

Ed, will SVS be offering the driver upgrade option for the older Plus lines with this new 12.4 driver... I have dual Plus/2's which would love to see some new drivers.

Thanks

I posted this in the other thread, but I figured I would post it here as well...

Ed, will SVS be offering the driver upgrade option for the older Plus lines with this new 12.4 driver... I have dual Plus/2's which would love to see some new drivers.

Thanks

The 12.4 has a larger basket and a different flange hole pattern - no backwards compatibility with the 12.3 woof.

[QUOTE][We can get you 4" port blockers for your B4-Plus. If Deep Hz Audio doesn't carry them, we can ship them directly to you from Ohio.

Have you resolved the issues with your B4-Plus to your satisfaction? If not, please continue with Deep Hz Audio and/or Tech Support./QUOTE]

Thanks for that Ed. Well I didn't bother to go to the lenghts of taking out the driver as I now believe that it was simply being pushed too hard as I had 3 ports blocked while watching Cloverfield. I am yet to test it again since taking out a foam block and running the same scene with 2. I will call DeepHz and find out if they have any 4" blocks. Thanks for the help.

The 12.4 has a larger basket and a different flange hole pattern - no backwards compatibility with the 12.3 woof.

Unfortunate.....

Thanks for the reply partner..... Appreciate it...

How long did it take you guys to get your pb13? I'm thinking of ordering, but would like an idea if it takes 2 weeks or merely a few days.

How long did it take you guys to get your pb13? I'm thinking of ordering, but would like an idea if it takes 2 weeks or merely a few days.

9 times out of 10 they ship out the next day, and depending on how far away from ohio you live will determine how long it takes for you to get your sub Joseph....

I live in Milwaukee, and I got all 4 of my subs within 3-4 days...

Great, thx for the quick reply.

How long did it take you guys to get your pb13? I'm thinking of ordering, but would like an idea if it takes 2 weeks or merely a few days.

they ship the next day. i get mine within 7 days in CA.

I've noticed that the PB10 and PB12 do not have speaker level inputs - only rca inputs (line level).

If my setup is 2-channel only with a preamp and power amp (and the pre outs are used to drive L/R to the amp) - can the PB10 and PB12 be adapted for this somehow?

If I use a "Y" cable from say the preout L to drive both the power amp and the PB10/12 will this cause an imbalance in levels to the power amp because the L signal is now weaker (due to splitting it) compared to the R (with no splitting)?

Thanks,
Erik

What pre-amp are you using there Erik...

Most Pre-Amps have Subwoofer out RCA's and when set properly in the Pre-Amp it will allow you to choose the setting at which crossover that works best in your room, therefore sending only the output for the subwoofer to the sub and anything above that to the speakers.

I've noticed that the PB10 and PB12 do not have speaker level inputs - only rca inputs (line level).

If my setup is 2-channel only with a preamp and power amp (and the pre outs are used to drive L/R to the amp) - can the PB10 and PB12 be adapted for this somehow?

If I use a "Y" cable from say the preout L to drive both the power amp and the PB10/12 will this cause an imbalance in levels to the power amp because the L signal is now weaker (due to splitting it) compared to the R (with no splitting)?

Thanks,
ErikHey Erik, does your player have any BM. Both of mine, Oppo and Sony S300 let me choose large or small for speaker setup. For Pure Direct or 6/8 ch Direct on my pre, Large in my player = no sub for 2 channel, LFE only for MCH, Small = sub for everything below the cut in the pre. I know the PB10 has no crossover or high level inputs, but I thought the PB12 did :confused:.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm#
It does

Hey Erik, does your player have any BM. Both of mine, Oppo and Sony S300 let me choose large or small for speaker setup. For Pure Direct or 6/8 ch Direct on my pre, Large in my player = no sub for 2 channel, LFE only for MCH, Small = sub for everything below the cut in the pre. I know the PB10 has no crossover or high level inputs, but I thought the PB12 did :confused:.

I'm thinking of putting together a 2-channel rig for a listening room and the PB10 sounded like the perfect fit & price.

But the pre-amp is a 'legacy' pre-amp - just standard l/r pre outs no sub/rca, no bm.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm#
It does

Ah, I see on one of the views that it does seem to have speaker level inputs.

I was looking at the PB12 manual:
http://svsound.com/manuals/English_Manual_PB12NSD_2531PCi.pdf

And jumped the gun - as I saw nothing about describing speaker level connections in the manual - just the sub/rca method.

Thanks,
Erik

Keep in mind that the 12" NSD does have speaker level inputs, but the 10" NSD does *not*. You mentioned the PB10-NSD as fitting in your space and budget, but you'll have to squeeze in the PB12-NSD in if you want to keep that same receiver.

-Robb