Keep in mind that the 12" NSD does have speaker level inputs, but the 10" NSD does *not*. You mentioned the PB10-NSD as fitting in your space and budget, but you'll have to squeeze in the PB12-NSD in if you want to keep that same receiver.

-Robb

Roger that... or figure out another way of configuring in the PB10-NSD by using "Y"s from the preamp outs to feed both the power amp and the sub.

Should work, but I'm still mulling things over.

Thanks,
Erik

Got a look at the review today. While the review is very positive about the speakers and the Ultra, I kind of expected more detail and since Nousaine measured both the speakers and sub...more detail especially regarding his comments which were pretty minimal.

what is a good starting point to plug the ports of my (2) ultra 13's, 1,2, or 0 port plugs?


any sugggestions for starting volume level on these 2 beasts?

what is a good starting point to plug the ports of my (2) ultra 13's, 1,2, or 0 port plugs?

any sugggestions for starting volume level on these 2 beasts?

you need an SPL meter to match the speakers and sub.

the gain on the rear of ANY sub is relative to the receiver master volume, subwoofer trim level, etc. (i recommend you start at 0db on the subwoofer channel btw)

re: port plugs
depends on your room and listening tastes actually. but measurements prove that you don't give much up plugging one port for the 15hz tuning.

Hi all and anyone at SVS in particular. I always wanted the PB-13 Ultra but cost was an obstacle for me.

I had my heart set on an MFW-15 but with crazy shipping costs, duty, brokerage fees ( live in Ontario, Canada) etc and also it seems a bit of QC and reliabilty issues which makes me very nervous due to warranty and service/return issues. So I am about to pull the trigger on the Ultra due to a Canadian dealer and a much closer final cost compared to the Mfw.

Here is my room and gear.

Dedicated HT, 23x13x9

Emotiva DMC-1/MPS-1

Rocket 850 mains, Klipsch RC-64 center, Mirage Omni260 surrounds and a Paradigm PW-2200 12" sub.

Sanyo Z5 PJ
PS3 for BR
HD-A35
Oppo971

Here is the question, will this sub (Ultra13) be a huge night and day difference in slam, depth (10hz??) and overall listening quality and fun. I am about 50/50 movies/music.

Would there be a better alternative as in 2x different SVS models? (keeping the cost the same)

Folks who have owned the PW2200 and the Ultra and can offer some insight would be awesome!

Thanks in advance

Chris

p.s. I know they have a 45 day return policy but would rather know what I am in for off the get go and get the correct gear the first time.

Just bought the PB10-NSD to replace B&W 608 sub. I'm hoping it will be as musical as I'd like while still hitting hard for movies.

Ok I have a crazy and probably dumb question. I just got my SVS PCi 20-39 today. I want to place it in the corner of my HT. There is a window right at that corner though. Is there any chance of the sub breaking my window? I'm telling you these cylinder subs are scary looking!

Ok I have a crazy and probably dumb question. I just got my SVS PCi 20-39 today. I want to place it in the corner of my HT. There is a window right at that corner though. Is there any chance of the sub breaking my window? I'm telling you these cylinder subs are scary looking!

Note likely, given that I can't actually break any windows with dual PB13-Ultras, but it will make you nervous during certain scenes.

-Robb

Hi all and anyone at SVS in particular. I always wanted the PB-13 Ultra but cost was an obstacle for me.

I had my heart set on an MFW-15 but with crazy shipping costs, duty, brokerage fees ( live in Ontario, Canada) etc and also it seems a bit of QC and reliabilty issues which makes me very nervous due to warranty and service/return issues. So I am about to pull the trigger on the Ultra due to a Canadian dealer and a much closer final cost compared to the Mfw.

Here is my room and gear.

Dedicated HT, 23x13x9

Emotiva DMC-1/MPS-1

Rocket 850 mains, Klipsch RC-64 center, Mirage Omni260 surrounds and a Paradigm PW-2200 12" sub.

Sanyo Z5 PJ
PS3 for BR
HD-A35
Oppo971

Here is the question, will this sub (Ultra13) be a huge night and day difference in slam, depth (10hz??) and overall listening quality and fun. I am about 50/50 movies/music.

Would there be a better alternative as in 2x different SVS models? (keeping the cost the same)

Folks who have owned the PW2200 and the Ultra and can offer some insight would be awesome!

Thanks in advance

Chris

p.s. I know they have a 45 day return policy but would rather know what I am in for off the get go and get the correct gear the first time.

Yes. It's the last sub you'll ever buy.

Ok I have a crazy and probably dumb question. I just got my SVS PCi 20-39 today. I want to place it in the corner of my HT. There is a window right at that corner though. Is there any chance of the sub breaking my window? I'm telling you these cylinder subs are scary looking!

I have the same sub and I can tell you that once you feel the house shaking, the windows breaking are the least of your worries! :D

-t

Yes. It's the last sub you'll ever buy.

and the last one ... and the last one ... and the last one ... :D

I just ordered my new PB-13 Ultra in gloss black! I can't wait, cause hehe, I am currently without a sub in my small 12 X 17 room. Can I expect that this is going to be absolutely ridiculous?! :D

I just ordered my new PB-13 Ultra in gloss black! I can't wait, cause hehe, I am currently without a sub in my small 12 X 17 room. Can I expect that this is going to be absolutely ridiculous?! :D

Ummm, yeah, I'd say so.

Ummm, yeah, I'd say so.


Good to hear :D

I'm not sure if my new SVS PCi 20-39 is working right. I have to turn the gain above half to hear the sub, if I go below half it's as if it just stops responding. I turned power from Auto to On and it's the same.

I'm pushing it +1.5db all other speakers on my AVR. Have it set to 80Hz (THX).

I watched BlackHawk down last night and I was really unimpressed with this sub. Right before an explosion, I would grab the remote expecting to have to turn it down like I would my old cheap Polk sub. It was anything but impressive though, it was actually depressing after getting so excited about finally getting a "real" sub.

I then put in Speed Racer and had the same results.

My cheap Polk 8" sub at least shook the window right next to it. My new SVS doesn't come close to shaking anything. I have to think something is wrong if a $100 sub sounds better than a $600 one. When it does work, it's all muddy sounding. Not crisp, clean or punchy.

Tell me I have setting wrong somewhere or it's a fualty sub or something.

Tell me I have setting wrong somewhere or it's a fualty sub or something.

Check your AVR setup, set speakers to small, crossover around 60-80hz. Dial in the SVS sub. I only have my subs at 1/4 volume and they get scary. I think your problem maybe in your settings in your AVR, start there. That SVS should be moving some serious air. Polk sub was probably just boomy and youre not used to real accurate bass. Good luck.

I'm not sure if my new SVS PCi 20-39 is working right. I have to turn the gain above half to hear the sub, if I go below half it's as if it just stops responding. I turned power from Auto to On and it's the same.

I'm pushing it +1.5db all other speakers on my AVR. Have it set to 80Hz (THX).

I watched BlackHawk down last night and I was really unimpressed with this sub. Right before an explosion, I would grab the remote expecting to have to turn it down like I would my old cheap Polk sub. It was anything but impressive though, it was actually depressing after getting so excited about finally getting a "real" sub.

I then put in Speed Racer and had the same results.

My cheap Polk 8" sub at least shook the window right next to it. My new SVS doesn't come close to shaking anything. I have to think something is wrong if a $100 sub sounds better than a $600 one. When it does work, it's all muddy sounding. Not crisp, clean or punchy.

Tell me I have setting wrong somewhere or it's a fualty sub or something.

Something is definitely not right. While there is a small chance you got a bad sub, it's much more likely there is something goofy with the setup. Go to http://www.robbroy.net/HT/SubwooferErrors.cfm and double check every item on that list. I can't tell you the number of times someone said they've done everything on the list, get upset, and then days later realize they still missed something on the list. And don't forget to email SVS directly for assistance. There is no way your old sub has more volume than your new one during Black Hawk Down. Simply not possible.

-Robb

Something is definitely not right. While there is a small chance you got a bad sub, it's much more likely there is something goofy with the setup. Go to http://www.robbroy.net/HT/SubwooferErrors.cfm and double check every item on that list. I can't tell you the number of times someone said they've done everything on the list, get upset, and then days later realize they still missed something on the list. And don't forget to email SVS directly for assistance. There is no way your old sub has more volume than your new one during Black Hawk Down. Simply not possible.

-Robb


Thank you very much. Going to check it now. I know it has to be something I've done or a fualty sub...I'm betting on the former.

Maybe some one can answer this question, I know that SVS now has a 12.4 driver for their new sub. I have read that this new driver will not be a replacement for older 12.3 drivers, since the cage will not fit older box designers and holes are not aligned the same. Now I have a 2039+ clyinder sub that has plenty of room (best i can see that is) for this larger cage and the holes I think the hole alignment can be adjusted to fit. So, does anyone know more about the 12.4 spec's or even if it will be sold separately.

Here is the question, will this sub (Ultra13) be a huge night and day difference in slam, depth (10hz??) and overall listening quality and fun.

Compared to the PW2200....yes. The PW can play loud in the higher octaves (30hz and up) but it can't touch the PB13 below that.....not even close. I don't know how the Axiom EP500 would compare to the PW2200 but I had one for a 30day trial and sent it back after 5 days. I have the PB13 now and there's absolutely no comparison between the two in any category.

Like you I'm in Canada and ordered mine from Sonicboomaudio from Mason. Rest assured you'll get top notch service.

Oh.....and if you want black spend the extra and get the gloss over the textured black......well worth the $100 premium as the finish is absolutely gorgeous. And if you want the cloth grill be sure to specify that otherwise you'll get the metal grill by default.

I just ordered my new PB-13 Ultra in gloss black! I can't wait

Prepare to be amazed when you open the box and remove the protective cloth bag....the finish is truly exceptional. And then get set to giggle like a little girl by the sheer size of the PB13. Reading the size specs is one thing but having it sitting in front of you is another story.

Maybe some one can answer this question, I know that SVS now has a 12.4 driver for their new sub. I have read that this new driver will not be a replacement for older 12.3 drivers, since the cage will not fit older box designers and holes are not aligned the same. Now I have a 2039+ clyinder sub that has plenty of room (best i can see that is) for this larger cage and the holes I think the hole alignment can be adjusted to fit. So, does anyone know more about the 12.4 spec's or even if it will be sold separately.

Pretty safe to believe that the only people to know that info would be SVS, email them.

Maybe some one can answer this question, I know that SVS now has a 12.4 driver for their new sub. I have read that this new driver will not be a replacement for older 12.3 drivers, since the cage will not fit older box designers and holes are not aligned the same. Now I have a 2039+ clyinder sub that has plenty of room (best i can see that is) for this larger cage and the holes I think the hole alignment can be adjusted to fit. So, does anyone know more about the 12.4 spec's or even if it will be sold separately.Different amp optimization too. Not saying the 12.4 with the old BASH amp won't sound good, just won't be what SVS is selling.
They aren't offering the upgrade so it's a moot point.

I'm not sure if my new SVS PCi 20-39 is working right. I have to turn the gain above half to hear the sub, if I go below half it's as if it just stops responding. I turned power from Auto to On and it's the same.

I'm pushing it +1.5db all other speakers on my AVR. Have it set to 80Hz (THX).

I watched BlackHawk down last night and I was really unimpressed with this sub. Right before an explosion, I would grab the remote expecting to have to turn it down like I would my old cheap Polk sub. It was anything but impressive though, it was actually depressing after getting so excited about finally getting a "real" sub.

I then put in Speed Racer and had the same results.

My cheap Polk 8" sub at least shook the window right next to it. My new SVS doesn't come close to shaking anything. I have to think something is wrong if a $100 sub sounds better than a $600 one. When it does work, it's all muddy sounding. Not crisp, clean or punchy.

Tell me I have setting wrong somewhere or it's a fualty sub or something.

You're getting great advice here, but I'll echo the recommendation to contact us at techsupport@svsound.com. We'll make sure you're getting the most from your PCi and that your system is set-up properly.

Different amp optimization too. Not saying the 12.4 with the old BASH amp won't sound good, just won't be what SVS is selling.
They aren't offering the upgrade so it's a moot point.

Right - the basket diameter and hole pattern is different, and the amp has been optimized to work with the new woofer. The previous generation 500W platform would not provide optimal results with the new woofer.

Right - the basket diameter and hole pattern is different, and the amp has been optimized to work with the new woofer. The previous generation 500W platform would not provide optimal results with the new woofer.

OK, so can i do a retro fit and upgrade amp also well as driver, or would a new cylinder make more sence?

OK, so can i do a retro fit and upgrade amp also well as driver, or would a new cylinder make more sence?

The cylinder end-cap would need to be replaced, and that's a non-serviceable part (it's basically glued/stapled to the cylinder tubing). We're not offering the 12.4 as a user-upgrade for these reasons. Any interest in dual subs? The 12.3 and 12.4 complement nicely, actually.

The cylinder end-cap would need to be replaced, and that's a non-serviceable part (it's basically glued/stapled to the cylinder tubing). We're not offering the 12.4 as a user-upgrade for these reasons. Any interest in dual subs? The 12.3 and 12.4 complement nicely, actually.

Just bought anothe cylinder 20-39 and they both have the 12.2 driver, so I think i'll just upgrade the 12.2 to the 12.3 driver if you think I'll hear the $170 difference the 12.3 will make:confused:

I would get the 12.3 driver for both. Couple more db of output and better SQ.

Worth the $170 I think!

Something is definitely not right. While there is a small chance you got a bad sub, it's much more likely there is something goofy with the setup. Go to http://www.robbroy.net/HT/SubwooferErrors.cfm and double check every item on that list. I can't tell you the number of times someone said they've done everything on the list, get upset, and then days later realize they still missed something on the list. And don't forget to email SVS directly for assistance. There is no way your old sub has more volume than your new one during Black Hawk Down. Simply not possible.

-Robb

Robb,
I ready your document and I really like it. I have a question though.
I have a Pioneer Elite (VSX-92TXH), and I cannot find some of the references you make to MACC. For example #6 you say:
"LFE Channel (the ".1" in 5.1) is enabled (Pioneer MCACC). This is not the subwoofer channel."
I cannot find in my MACC menu any reference to ".1"

Thanks

Hello SVS owners. I've slowly been building a home theater and so far I've added a 50" Panny plasma, a Yamaha RX-V1800, Mirage Omnisat V2FS's and the next piece I'd like to add (before a center or surrounds) is the sub. I've narrowed down my subwoofer search between the PB10-NSD or the PB12-NSD. My room is roughly 2200 cubic feet. I should note that I do live in an apartment complex and would rather not alienate my neighbors...at least not too much. :) My question is, will the PB10 be sufficient enough for a room this size? I've contacted SVS sales and they said both the PB10 and PB12 would work. Realistically, I could buy the PB12, but if the PB10 would be more than enough for me I'd rather go that route and put the extra money towards a center/surrounds. Thoughts? And THANK YOU for your input!

The PB-12 is worth the upgrade if you have the $. I owned one and for $599 I was shocked what it could do that my old 12inch Cerwin Vega couldn't do. And ps....my Vega cost almost as much as the PB-12 so Imagine my happiness!

Plus think down the road....will you always live in an apartment. You probably won't, so the PB-12 is even a better choice thinking about that. If I could build my system again....I'd start with the subwoofer and get the BEST you can afford.

Next buy Mains, and then a matching Center.

Finally finish up with either 2, 3, or 4 surrounds.

:)

Robb,
I ready your document and I really like it. I have a question though.
I have a Pioneer Elite (VSX-92TXH), and I cannot find some of the references you make to MACC. For example #6 you say:
"LFE Channel (the ".1" in 5.1) is enabled (Pioneer MCACC). This is not the subwoofer channel."
I cannot find in my MACC menu any reference to ".1"

Thanks

arango1,

It's not my document; I just host it. Ed Mullen wrote that document. The tech guys at SVS can help you locate (or not) that particular item in your Pioneer (I use a Denon).

-Robb

Robb,
I ready your document and I really like it. I have a question though.
I have a Pioneer Elite (VSX-92TXH), and I cannot find some of the references you make to MACC. For example #6 you say:
"LFE Channel (the ".1" in 5.1) is enabled (Pioneer MCACC). This is not the subwoofer channel."
I cannot find in my MACC menu any reference to ".1"

Thanks

Hi arango1,

You just want to make sure the "LFE ATT" setting is "0" (no attenuation). If this is set to "OFF", LFE is disabled. And that's no fun.

Hi arango1,

You just want to make sure the "LFE ATT" setting is "0" (no attenuation). If this is set to "OFF", LFE is disabled. And that's no fun.


Jack,
Thanks I got it set at 0. I also realized that I was playing the Pioneer in Pure Direct mode which cancelled out all of the tweaking I made in the MCACC! I can't believe all the movies I've watched already on Pure Direct rather than Direct!!!

Thanks Again.

Robb,
I ready your document and I really like it. I have a question though.
I have a Pioneer Elite (VSX-92TXH), and I cannot find some of the references you make to MACC. For example #6 you say:
"LFE Channel (the ".1" in 5.1) is enabled (Pioneer MCACC). This is not the subwoofer channel."
I cannot find in my MACC menu any reference to ".1"

Thanks

At one time, Pioneer offered both an LFE channel attenuation control and also an LFE channel disable control. I don't consider either feature very useful, but the latter is just inexplicable.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure they recently got religion, as I can't find either control on the newest Elite AVRs I've set-up.

At one time, Pioneer offered both an LFE channel attenuation control and also an LFE channel disable control. I don't consider either feature very useful, but the latter is just inexplicable.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure they recently got religion, as I can't find either control on the newest Elite AVRs I've set-up.


Thanks Ed!

Hey guys,

So I'm going to order a pb13, i have an Onkyo805 receiver. What cable to I need? My looking at the back of the SVS, it doesnt' seem like it uses the same cable my old JBL 12inch sub uses. Any help would be appreciated.

Any subwoofer cable will work with the "Subwoofer Output" RCA cable hookup to any of the SVS subs...
Should look just like this... http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/subwoofer/rcacloseup.jpg

i already have that cable, great! Only thing is, when i look at this picture of the back of a PB13, it doesn't seem like at has that input jack:

http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/pb13ultra/svs_bash_750_amp_straight_large.jpg

i already have that cable, great! Only thing is, when i look at this picture of the back of a PB13, it doesn't seem like at has that input jack:

http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/pb13ultra/svs_bash_750_amp_straight_large.jpg

Look at the top left of the amp. You plug it into either top Left or Right Low Level Input (very top)

Look at the top left of the amp. You plug it into either top Left or Right Low Level Input (very top)

I feel silly now. Thanks..lol

I feel silly now. Thanks..lol

No problem :). There are just so many different options on the Ultra 13 amp that it's hard to sort out what's what! And trust me...I've been far sillier than you when it comes to this stuff :o

well, finally read through all 102 pages of this thread. here is my first post and proud owner of pb12/plus 2.

My PB10-NSD just came in today. This thing is a beast. I'm pairing it with B&W 600 series speakers. I haven't had a chance to really stress it yet, but I can tell right off the bat that it will blow away the little B&W 608.

well, finally read through all 102 pages of this thread. here is my first post and proud owner of pb12/plus 2.


Welcome to AVS.... I have 2 of those things... :)

I need more though...

Welcome to AVS.... I have 2 of those things... :)

I need more though...

Hey Warpdrv I have two of those things too with the 12.3 driver update! In a room that is 14X17X8. Needless to say I'm all set in that area! I remember you being one of the people talking about the laid back mids on the MTS line. Looks like SVS was listening to you and others out there. I for one plan on swapping my crossovers when the offer goes live!

I'm going to be selling 3 SVS 12.1 Plus drivers. What do you guys think they are worth? I swapped them out for the 12.3 drivers, sold one of my 12.1s to a friend and have 3 more that I want to move. Your thoughts?

well, finally read through all 102 pages of this thread. here is my first post and proud owner of pb12/plus 2.

I want one of these things bad as they match my Infinity IL50's with the brushed silver drivers, but they don't have them for sale at the Canadian site. They have them listed, and lot's of salivating pictures, but they are evidently discontinued/0 in stock. I don't even see them listed on the U.S site.

They have the PB12-NSD/2 at a very, very nice clearance price(almost half the plus price) on the U.S. site but don't list it on the Canadian site.

Very frustrating. I would like either model and I'm guessing I'm out of luck.:mad:

I want one of these things bad as they match my Infinity IL50's with the brushed silver drivers, but they don't have them for sale at the Canadian site. They have them listed, and lot's of salivating pictures, but they are evidently discontinued/0 in stock. I don't even see them listed on the U.S site.

They have the PB12-NSD/2 at a very, very nice clearance price(almost half the plus price) on the U.S. site but don't list it on the Canadian site.

Very frustrating. I would like either model and I'm guessing I'm out of luck.:mad:

if it's available in the US, Mason of sonic boom audio might be able to get it for you.

he's a good guy btw. he let me demo my first SVS'es in 2006 and was very willing to help me get my hands on some Ultras.

if it's available in the US, Mason of sonic boom audio might be able to get it for you.

he's a good guy btw. he let me demo my first SVS'es in 2006 and was very willing to help me get my hands on some Ultras.

Well then, I'll have to give him a call and see If my luck can change.

Thanks for the tip!

I want one of these things bad as they match my Infinity IL50's with the brushed silver drivers, but they don't have them for sale at the Canadian site. They have them listed, and lot's of salivating pictures, but they are evidently discontinued/0 in stock. I don't even see them listed on the U.S site.

They have the PB12-NSD/2 at a very, very nice clearance price(almost half the plus price) on the U.S. site but don't list it on the Canadian site.

Very frustrating. I would like either model and I'm guessing I'm out of luck.:mad:Unless Sonic has one in the back room, I think your out of luck. There is a possibility one may come back and be put into B stock. As to the bright aluminum drivers (12.2) on the +/2, those haven't been available for about 2.5 years. The 12.3 driver was black anodize. If left in the factory orientation, you can't see the drivers anyway.

Time to start looking on Audiogon.

Unless Sonic has one in the back room, I think your out of luck. There is a possibility one may come back and be put into B stock. As to the bright aluminum drivers (12.2) on the +/2, those haven't been available for about 2.5 years. The 12.3 driver was black anodize. If left in the factory orientation, you can't see the drivers anyway.

Time to start looking on Audiogon.

Is Audiogon used audio equipment? If so, thanks for the tip but I don't touch used stuff.

Man, what is the point of having dozens of pictures and descriptions of product that hasn't existed in years on your site? Seems all those floor firing subs aren't available anymore then, so why tease me.

Just picked up a sweet deal on a 20-39+, $300+. My question is how do i know which driver it has, it has a sticker on bottom the reads 2-11-05, would this have the 12.1 or 12.2 driver? The driver is dark colored almost black, i have another 2039+ and its driver color is silver which is this (it is also ~3 years old). I want to upgrade the the silver to the 12.3 and maybe the other.

I don't know about the 12.1 driver, but the 12.3 driver is black. This sub may have already been upgraded.

12.1 is dark, 12.2 is silver

Were they still producing the 12.1 in 2005? If so, then the 12.2 was only used for a little over 1 year as the 12.3 came out in March/April 2006.

Were they still producing the 12.1 in 2005? If so, then the 12.2 was only used for a little over 1 year as the 12.3 came out in March/April 2006.


The 12.2 has a silver cone and was shipping with all Plus products o/a June 2003. The 12.3 has a black cone and was shipping o/a April 2006.

If it's an '05 vintage and has a black cone, it could be an upgrade to a 12.3 woofer, or it could be a non-SVS woofer. Hard to tell until it's actually removed and inspected.

The 12.2 has a silver cone and was shipping with all Plus products o/a June 2003. The 12.3 has a black cone and was shipping o/a April 2006.

If it's an '05 vintage and has a black cone, it could be an upgrade to a 12.3 woofer, or it could be a non-SVS woofer. Hard to tell until it's actually removed and inspected.

Would the woofer have the SVS logo printed on it?

Would the woofer have the SVS logo printed on it?Mine have no SVS markings at all. Look at the surround and gasket. They should be one piece. It should be rubber and not foam. Anything else will require you to pull the driver.

Hey guys,
My PB Ultra 13 arrived today. No way I could take that thing out of the box, so I had to cut the box up. I know I'll be screwed if I need to return it, oh well. Calculated risk I guess. I put this beast in teh corner at first, then between my left front tower and my TV. Reason is, my room is not perfectly square, and 6ft in front of the left front corner, the room angles in a bit. My previous sub wasn't in teh corner either and I felt it sounded better. I have yet to calibrate this thing via the EQ, although I did calibrate the decibals via an SPL meter. First impressions are fantastic. Funny thing though, I had to up the level to the sub on my Onkyo substantially. Then again, i have the gain at half way.

As a test subject, I used Cloverfield. The seen where the main character is on the roof adn the first major BOOM occurs made my glassware in the floor above shake. I also want to point out that the Piano black finish is georgous. It matches my Aperion Audio 6T 6Cc and 532LRs perfectly. Eventually I'll order the Avia cd to tune this thing a little better, but for not this will do. I also want to point out I prefer the single plug (15Hz) mode.

Nice what are the speakers?

Nice what are the speakers?
Looks like Aperions:

Hello ladies and gents,

I had the 533T and 533vac center channel speakers and just upgraded to the 6T towers and 6C center channel. I still have my 532LR for surround speakers to go with a pair of smaller Paradigm cinema 60s for Surround backs. I ran the audissey and am not convinced this is the best possible sound I could get. My AVR is an Onkyo 805. After the audyssey ran, i changed some gain and distance settings a bit, but as far as EQ goes, I would like to try a manual setting. Can anyone with 6Ts or 633s for that matter post their EQ settings so I can try them out?

Nice what are the speakers?

Yes Aperion Audio 6Ts and 6C for the center channel. They are absolutely wonderful.

Yeah thats what I get for speed reading. Nice setup

I think I've finally decided on getting a couple of the new PC12-NSD subs when they're released. It looks as though the new PC12 plus has optional tunings from the factory. Any news as to whether the new PC12 will also have these options? I'm looking for 20Hz tuning as opposed to 25.

Kevin

Setup of 2 ultra 13 in 20x24x10 room

i'm using (2) ultra 13's in this dedicated HT room with 2 port plugs.

Just wondering if anyone is rocking 2 ultra with (3) port plugs inserted?

Do some not like any plugs?

My PB12/Plus 2 subs are in there new home:

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq227/gixxer_rydder/Theater%20Room/DSC00501.jpg

I have also placed my center speaker on the Lovan M2 Center Stand.

:DHello SVS owners. I've slowly been building a home theater and so far I've added a 50" Panny plasma, a Yamaha RX-V1800, Mirage Omnisat V2FS's and the next piece I'd like to add (before a center or surrounds) is the sub. I've narrowed down my subwoofer search between the PB10-NSD or the PB12-NSD. My room is roughly 2200 cubic feet. I should note that I do live in an apartment complex and would rather not alienate my neighbors...at least not too much. :) My question is, will the PB10 be sufficient enough for a room this size? I've contacted SVS sales and they said both the PB10 and PB12 would work. Realistically, I could buy the PB12, but if the PB10 would be more than enough for me I'd rather go that route and put the extra money towards a center/surrounds. Thoughts? And THANK YOU for your input!

As somebody that just switched from 1 x Paradigm PW2200 to 2 x PB12-NSD's i have to say that 1 x PB12-NSD can reach levels that are definitely beyond what your neighbors would like. Calibrated at 75 db's, the same as the rest of my setup, It is very loud in bass scenes. If you just wanted something temporary for the apartment the PB10-NSD would probably be more than enough for the levels you could play at. If you wanted to future proof a bit you should go with the PB12-NSD, just make sure you have it calibrated low;)

Then if you get a house, all you have to do is add another 1 or even a bigger one & you're looking at serious bass

A little confused, there are a lot of new subs coming out for SVS. Will the new PC Plus hit harder than the new SB-12?

A little confused, there are a lot of new subs coming out for SVS. Will the new PC Plus hit harder than the new SB-12?

As of now, there is no announcement for a new SB-12 Plus. There is a new PB12-Plus and a new PC-12 Plus (replaces the 20-39 PC-Plus). These two subs should perform very similarly. Usually the box versions of SVS's subs have a *tiny* output advantage over the cylinders, but I've been reassured multiple times that their real-world performance is virtually identical. Both the new PB12-Plus and PC-12 Plus should "hit harder" than the SB-12 Plus, and they should also offer much more deep bass output.

I re-read what I wrote, my fault for not writing the specific models, but what you mentioned is what I was gearing for. Thank you for the call. The reason why I was asking is because I would like to purchase the new PC-12 Plus, seems like a great sub for the money. Don't have deep enough pockets for the Ultra, PC-12 Plus should be a nice upgrade replacing my current Energy XL 8" Sub, LOL.

Cheers!

... PC-12 Plus should be a nice upgrade replacing my current Energy XL 8" Sub, LOL.

Cheers!

I should say so!

I wish someone would sell an PB12 Ultra/2 Textured Black!!! I want another!!!

I run mine in 25hz mode....

I recently purchased a PB12-NSD and I've noticed that the sub will sometimes "cut out" and not receive a signal from my receiver (Yammy RX-V1800). I'll be playing COD4 and be in explosion heaven and then all of a sudden...no more sub. I've checked the woofer when this happens and it's not even moving. So I figure that it's got to be the connection. Well, I've noticed that the subwoofer cable I use is kind of loose fitting around the RCA jack and when I move it around it either receives a signal again or cuts off the signal to the sub. This happens in both L or R RCA In jacks. This is the cable I use: http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Well, I went ahead and purchased a different cable from Monoprice this morning in the hopes that it will solve my problem: http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

My question is, have any of you had a similiar experience with your SVS subs? Should I be more concerned that maybe the RCA jacks are garbage? I'm really hoping that it's just a bad cable because I really don't want to have to ship it back. Any ideas? Thoughts? As always, thank you!

Hey seaners,

Sorry you're having issues with your PB12-NSD. Since it cuts out when you move the connection, it certainly sounds like the classic bad cable. If not, drop us a note in Tech Support and we'll take care of it right away. The subs are modular, so we can send a new amp if needed rather than have you ship a whole sub.

Thanks!

techsupport@svsound.com

It doesn't look as though anyone has any advice for me on this in the sub thread so I thought I'd repost here. My question is on whether or not bass traps are a necessary evil to be used in my bedroom. The room itself is a "live" room (plaster & lath (older house). I listen/watch movies 90% of the time and enjoy the sound from my left front corner placed Svs Pb10-Nsd, but what do I know about how "good" sound is supposed to sound? This is my 1st surround sound system. Maybe I could benefit from these bass traps? The placement more than anything would be tough because I want my bedroom to look like a bedroom not a studio of some sort.

It doesn't look as though anyone has any advice for me on this in the sub thread so I thought I'd repost here. My question is on whether or not bass traps are a necessary evil to be used in my bedroom. The room itself is a "live" room (plaster & lath (older house). I listen/watch movies 90% of the time and enjoy the sound from my left front corner placed Svs Pb10-Nsd, but what do I know about how "good" sound is supposed to sound? This is my 1st surround sound system. Maybe I could benefit from these bass traps? The placement more than anything would be tough because I want my bedroom to look like a bedroom not a studio of some sort.

IMO bass traps are always a good thing if you're seeking to get the best bass performance possible. To me, the only questions are:

Can you afford them?
Can you fit them in your room (sizewise and aesthetically)?

If the answer to both of those questions is yes, bass traps are a no brainer.

It doesn't look as though anyone has any advice for me on this in the sub thread so I thought I'd repost here. My question is on whether or not bass traps are a necessary evil to be used in my bedroom. The room itself is a "live" room (plaster & lath (older house). I listen/watch movies 90% of the time and enjoy the sound from my left front corner placed Svs Pb10-Nsd, but what do I know about how "good" sound is supposed to sound? This is my 1st surround sound system. Maybe I could benefit from these bass traps? The placement more than anything would be tough because I want my bedroom to look like a bedroom not a studio of some sort.

Bass traps are great if you have the space for them. In a bedroom, I'd look at equalization (unless you have a very large bedroom).

-Robb

Hey la,rob, thanks for the feedback in this case it's a good thing, (feedback that is) I appreciate your thoughts. I can say I "have" the money but I guess the question is whether or not it's wise to spent said monies on this particular treatment. I suppose we can all find the resources (if need be) but if not necessary(still wondering) why allocate them to a particular source such as traps with my not having any experience with them? I value your opinions but as you know a dollar is hard to come by these days, without sounding too political. I checked out some sites for them (the bass traps) (won't mention which sites) they're a little expensive for me. Don't even mention EQing my room way too advanced for this newbie.

Hey la,rob, thanks for the feedback in this case it's a good thing, (feedback that is) I appreciate your thoughts. I can say I "have" the money but I guess the question is whether or not it's wise to spent said monies on this particular treatment. I suppose we can all find the resources (if need be) but if not necessary(still wondering) why allocate them to a particular source such as traps with my not having any experience with them? I value your opinions but as you know a dollar is hard to come by these days, without sounding too political. I checked out some sites for them (the bass traps) (won't mention which sites) they're a little expensive for me. Don't even mention EQing my room way too advanced for this newbie.

EQing a subwoofer is actually relatively easy to do. Of course, if you don't want to go through the trouble, that's up to you. However, there are a few great options out there, requiring varying amounts of technical know-how.

The most time-consuming (but most flexible) way of EQ you'll probably hear about for use with subwoofers is to use a program called Room EQ Wizard (REW) and a pro audio EQ (usually the Behringer 1124 or 2496). These require a sound card, microphone (or SPL meter), and a computer. It will probably cost $100-300 to do this, depending on what cables and other equipment you need to purchase. You run frequency sweeps with REW and the microphone picks up the in-room response and graphs it for you in REW on the computer. Afterwards, you can tweak things on the graph, input the settings into the Behringer EQ, and voila! You've EQ'd! If this method doesn't sound as daunting as you thought it might be, there's a ton of information here:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/

Another much simpler method of EQ uses the AntiMode 8033. I think it's in the $300-$400 range. It's supposed to be an automated fire-and-forget device. I don't know much about it, and there might be more to it than that, but I know there's a ton of info on a thread here on AVS. Here it is - you might have to get a few pages in before you get to the good stuff:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1028464&highlight=antimode

A third tried and true (but expensive) way to EQ is by using the Velodyne SMS-1. This can auto EQ and also can hook up to your TV so you can see the graph of your in-room frequency response. You can also make adjustments manually as desired. However, the SMS-1 costs $600.

Anyway, it's possible you truly don't want to even think about EQ. I've found it (along with bass traps) to make a BIG difference in my bedroom, though, so unless you're completely green when it comes to electronics (I don't think you'd be on AVS if you were), it's totally worth the effort IMO. I use REW and a Behringer FBQ2496, but the others are much simpler if you don't want to spend a little bit of time learning the ins and outs of REW. Anyway, good luck :)

EQing a subwoofer is actually relatively easy to do. Of course, if you don't want to go through the trouble, that's up to you. However, there are a few great options out there, requiring varying amounts of technical know-how.

The most time-consuming (but most flexible) way of EQ you'll probably hear about for use with subwoofers is to use a program called Room EQ Wizard (REW) and a pro audio EQ (usually the Behringer 1124 or 2496). These require a sound card, microphone (or SPL meter), and a computer. It will probably cost $100-300 to do this, depending on what cables and other equipment you need to purchase. You run frequency sweeps with REW and the microphone picks up the in-room response and graphs it for you in REW on the computer. Afterwards, you can tweak things on the graph, input the settings into the Behringer EQ, and voila! You've EQ'd! If this method doesn't sound as daunting as you thought it might be, there's a ton of information here:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/

Another much simpler method of EQ uses the AntiMode 8033. I think it's in the $300-$400 range. It's supposed to be an automated fire-and-forget device. I don't know much about it, and there might be more to it than that, but I know there's a ton of info on a thread here on AVS. Here it is - you might have to get a few pages in before you get to the good stuff:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1028464&highlight=antimode

A third tried and true (but expensive) way to EQ is by using the Velodyne SMS-1. This can auto EQ and also can hook up to your TV so you can see the graph of your in-room frequency response. You can also make adjustments manually as desired. However, the SMS-1 costs $600.

Anyway, it's possible you truly don't want to even think about EQ. I've found it (along with bass traps) to make a BIG difference in my bedroom, though, so unless you're completely green when it comes to electronics (I don't think you'd be on AVS if you were), it's totally worth the effort IMO. I use REW and a Behringer FBQ2496, but the others are much simpler if you don't want to spend a little bit of time learning the ins and outs of REW. Anyway, good luck :)
Wow, Thanks for all the information la. At some point this hobby may steer me in the direction of the Eqing and bass traps. But for now I'd probably like to stay blissfully ignorant as to what those treatments could do for me. I don't have my computer (desktop) in my room right now for the Eqing, and I would have to find out how to make the bass traps look presentable. I don't want my room to look more like a studio than a bedroom, if I can see,find, a style of traps that maybe don't look like a standard bass trap I could see considering them. btw is Audyssey with my Integra Dtr7.8 a auto Eq? If it is it probably isn't as good as your specific suggestions but I have run that several times since putting my system together. I wouldn't know if the system sounds better with it because I never operated the system without the Audyssey.

After doing a lot of research, I'm 90% sure I'm buying a SVS Sub. I'm more inclined to go with the cheapest one as any of these will be MUCH better than the non powered sub I have in my HTiB (which is getting completely replaced). The intended use is movies (DVD and HD-DVD until I can afford BR) and games, if its good at music, I'll probably use it for that too but its not a requirement. I was initially looking at cheaper subs (sub $300), but from what I've been reading, I'm way better off spending just that little bit more. I just purchased a Pioneer VSX-1018H-K receiver. The room it will be in is not large at all, but in a year or 2 I will most likely move to a bigger house.

A few questions I have:

1. Will I miss the extra inputs on the back if I go with the PB10 vs the PB12?
2. It appears the PCi 25-31 is discontinued and at a decent price, but looks like its using the older ISD sub instead of the NSD. Comparing the PB10 to that, which is the better buy? It also makes it $100 cheaper than the PB12.


Thanks for your input!

Pb10 is a good sub in a small room especially for gaming and ht. Of course the Pb12 will be alot better :)

A few questions I have:

1. Will I miss the extra inputs on the back if I go with the PB10 vs the PB12?
2. It appears the PCi 25-31 is discontinued and at a decent price, but looks like its using the older ISD sub instead of the NSD. Comparing the PB10 to that, which is the better buy? It also makes it $100 cheaper than the PB12.


Thanks for your input!
1. Only if you want to connect as a stereo sub (with a paired PB10) or your receiver doesn't have a sub out.
2. The PCi does have the NSD driver. Not the ISD driver.
The PB10 has always been an over achiever. Meaning it performs better than it should. That said, the 25-31 would still out perform the PB10. At $499 that's a good deal.

My PB12-NSD will be here tomorrow, if it doesn't get lost in the snow storm...

Is it just me or does it seem that when it gets to the price range of the PB12-NSD more people stray from SVS than at any other price point? Seems like the PB10-NSD is a no brainer and the PB13 Ultra is a no brainer, at their respective price points, but the PB12 was more difficult to commit to. I think I will be happy with my choice, although it was very difficult to not pre-order the new PB12-Plus. It was more difficult to spend the extra money though…

Just checked in, and I'm pleased to see this thread has survived! I just upgraded my system to Blu-ray, and have fallen in love with my PB Plus-2 all over again. The clarity of the Blu-ray format, and the richness of the lossless formats is so well suited for LFE. The first viewing of Ironman was frightening.:eek: I was waiting for something to break somewhere in the house. I had to add some non-skid rubber feet to my cable box to keep it in place. I actually ended up backing down my LFE out level on the Denon cause it was just too much. I've noticed that my overall volume when listening to Blu-ray discs is a bit higher than standard DVDs. I'm not sure if it has something to to with the different inputs or the format itself.

Keep 'em coming SVS owners!:D

Check out the new Hulk, a much better sound track than IM.

I was one of the first people to invest in a SVS (the 25-31CS+) sub all those years ago and mine is still a champ!

It isn't the biggest or baddest (with all the improvements since) but it still gets the job done. Paired with a Velodyne sub, my SVS is a wonder especially now with modern TrueHD and DTS-Master discs.

These things are built to last.

Any of the original owners still enjoying their early subs?

I bought an SVS sub back in 2001, the original 20-39PC. Until very recently, when the driver suddenly decided to blow (after watching Iron Man on Blu-Ray), it had played flawlessly for 7 years and was the oldest component in my home theater. Everything else in my theater has since been upgraded. The sub lasted through the years though.

It's being replaced with the newly pre-ordered PC12-Plus, which I am anxiously awaiting.

Any of the original owners still enjoying their early subs?

Absolutely. Mine is an original 20-39 PCi from April of 2002.

Sounds fine and have had no reason to want to upgrade whatsoever.

It is more sub than I will ever need in my room. I have never heard it strain at all on any material. Sounds great on music and movies.

Of course I have a fairly small room that is well damped and never play anything at "reference".

I see that they have a driver upgrade for the early PCi's on their website for reasonable cost.

What would be the advantage of upgrading assuming I have no need for any more output level?

Thanks,

--Mark--

I have the Ultra 13 and I thought Iron Man was also to hot on the bass...

Quick question:

I have a pc12+ on preorder and want to try and isolate it as much as possible from my downstairs neighbors. Will a 15x15 subdude fully and stabely support the svs cylinders?

Thanks guys.

Quick question:

I have a pc12+ on preorder and want to try and isolate it as much as possible from my downstairs neighbors. Will a 15x15 subdude fully and stabely support the svs cylinders?

Thanks guys.It will overhang by 1/2" on each side. That will be plenty stable.

Thanks ransac

Hi everyone. I have a question. Is it possible to bottom a 20-39PC+ with the following setup. All speakers calibrated even, not running sub hot, receiver set to -16, LFE@00dB, sub gain @11. Watched The Incredible Hulk last night, and the last battle scene where the two combatants are dangling from the helicopter, and fall, I hear a loud knock once. I replayed it and i heard it again. This is in a 1750 cu. foot room. Should this be possible, and can a sub bottom a couple of times without damaging it?

Thanks for your input,
Sven

Hi everyone. I have a question. Is it possible to bottom a 20-39PC+ with the following setup. All speakers calibrated even, not running sub hot, receiver set to -16, LFE@00dB, sub gain @11. Watched The Incredible Hulk last night, and the last battle scene where the two combatants are dangling from the helicopter, and fall, I hear a loud knock once. I replayed it and i heard it again. This is in a 1750 cu. foot room. Should this be possible, and can a sub bottom a couple of times without damaging it?

I have a SVS PB12-plus which is pretty much the same sub. My room is smaller than yours, everything is calibrated, I'm running the sub little hot.
I've bottomed it quite a few times now. Normally it's an amazing sub, but a couple of these new movies in the new sound formats is killing my SVS.
I've since turned it down a tad, I'm sure it hates me by now.
But yeah I've had it a year before I bottomed it, weird sound huh?
First time it happened I thought books had fallen off my shelf, but it was the sub. I haven't noticed anything different sounding since, but that is a good question of damage from bottoming. I wonder if the fuse would blow before damage occurred??
Anyone?

When I had the same sub, it bottomed on King Kong when the ship hits the rocks and on Harry Potter 2 when the dragon flapped his wings. It was a horrible sound. I upgraded to a +/2 and haven't had it bottom once.
How hard it bottoms will determine if damage will occur. Since SVS doesn't use a paper former, it has to bottom hard or often to cause damage, but I wouldn't want to press the issue.

My Living Room consists of a 52" Sony XBR5 and recently purchased Ascend Acoustic Sierra 1's Rt, Lt & Center. I have been reading and researching for a sub. Because of the furniture and limited floor space I had decided on a downward firing cylindrical sub and was close to ordering the yet to be released SVS PC- 12 plus. (Living Room Area 22’ x 14’ x 8’). I would love to be able to fit in a big box sub with a depth of 25" and a width of 20" but that would be impossible. The SVS cylinder has a diameter of 16 " and height of 40" a much smaller footprint. It would be used for HDTV via Comcast cable, Blu ray and music, equally divided.

I have repeatedly heard people speak about the tighter more articulate bass associated with sealed subs and I've seen the graphs that describe it. Can you please tell me, with your SVS sub, when playing music do you feel like something is missing? Do you say to yourself, "Oh this doesn't sound very good I can't discern the bass guitar (pipe organs) or the bass is just not in sync with the other instruments." Or is it something that an average listener playing music from their ipod, CD player or phono, whose input into the AVR is with analog RCA cables wouldn't notice. Do you find when listening to music the bass to be too “boomy?”

I don’t believe this is considered cross posting. The link below concerns my quandary regarding ported vs. non ported, specifically the new Ascend Rythhmic sub vs. SVS PC12-Plus but it contains the attachment to the room I’m discussing.

I would appreciate your thoughts on how your SVS subs, in general, perform when listening to music.

If any of you have specifically matched your SVS with the Ascend Acoustic Sierra 1’s I would love to hear your thoughts.

Thank you for your time, responses and suggestions

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1080351

I recently purchased a PB12-NSD and I've noticed that the sub will sometimes "cut out" and not receive a signal from my receiver (Yammy RX-V1800). I'll be playing COD4 and be in explosion heaven and then all of a sudden...no more sub. I've checked the woofer when this happens and it's not even moving. So I figure that it's got to be the connection. Well, I've noticed that the subwoofer cable I use is kind of loose fitting around the RCA jack and when I move it around it either receives a signal again or cuts off the signal to the sub. This happens in both L or R RCA In jacks. This is the cable I use: http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Well, I went ahead and purchased a different cable from Monoprice this morning in the hopes that it will solve my problem: http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

My question is, have any of you had a similiar experience with your SVS subs? Should I be more concerned that maybe the RCA jacks are garbage? I'm really hoping that it's just a bad cable because I really don't want to have to ship it back. Any ideas? Thoughts? As always, thank you!
Just curious, what did this turn out to be? Cable or amp?

I am thinking about getting the SVS SB12-plus for our living room about 2300 cubic feet. I can not put anything large in that will mess up the aesthetics of the room, WAF. I notice not to many talk about this sub, and wanted to see if anybody has it and can tell me what they think.

It turned out to be a bad cable. I have not had any issues with the sub once I replaced the cable.

I am thinking about getting the SVS SB12-plus for our living room about 2300 cubic feet. I can not put anything large in that will mess up the aesthetics of the room, WAF. I notice not to many talk about this sub, and wanted to see if anybody has it and can tell me what they think.

The SB12 is a sub with excellent sound quality which particularly excels with music. Due to it's size, it's deep bass capabilities are somewhat limited and therefor has the least deep bass output in the SVS line. It's a good choice if you must go small.

My Living Room consists of a 52" Sony XBR5 and recently purchased Ascend Acoustic Sierra 1's Rt, Lt & Center. I have been reading and researching for a sub. Because of the furniture and limited floor space I had decided on a downward firing cylindrical sub and was close to ordering the yet to be released SVS PC- 12 plus. (Living Room Area 22’ x 14’ x 8’). I would love to be able to fit in a big box sub with a depth of 25" and a width of 20" but that would be impossible. The SVS cylinder has a diameter of 16 " and height of 40" a much smaller footprint. It would be used for HDTV via Comcast cable, Blu ray and music, equally divided.

I have repeatedly heard people speak about the tighter more articulate bass associated with sealed subs and I've seen the graphs that describe it. Can you please tell me, with your SVS sub, when playing music do you feel like something is missing? Do you say to yourself, "Oh this doesn't sound very good I can't discern the bass guitar (pipe organs) or the bass is just not in sync with the other instruments." Or is it something that an average listener playing music from their ipod, CD player or phono, whose input into the AVR is with analog RCA cables wouldn't notice. Do you find when listening to music the bass to be too “boomy?”

I don’t believe this is considered cross posting. The link below concerns my quandary regarding ported vs. non ported, specifically the new Ascend Rythhmic sub vs. SVS PC12-Plus but it contains the attachment to the room I’m discussing.

I would appreciate your thoughts on how your SVS subs, in general, perform when listening to music.

If any of you have specifically matched your SVS with the Ascend Acoustic Sierra 1’s I would love to hear your thoughts.

Thank you for your time, responses and suggestions

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1080351The previous rev of SVS subs got a bad rap for musicality. I never had a problem, but there were differences between them and some of the competing subs of that generation. The SVS seemed more bottom weighted. Over the last 2 years, they improved the NSD line, brought out the Ultra13 and now the Plus is getting a facelift. No one's heard it yet, but talking to Stephen Ponte, it's going to feature a more overdamped sound, "sealed like", with great extention and power. What you're likely to notice is the SQ improvement vs output (which is limited by the same physical dimenions, driver size and power). So what you're worried about shouldn't be a problem. There weren't any phase timing problems with the earlier Plus subs. They weren't sloppy or slow. The new sub should be quite a musical improvement as well. Hope this helps.

I've read the reviews and the specs on the SVS SB12-plus and it sounds like a good sub, but I would like to get some first hand knowledge from some owners on what they think. I will not be cranking the volume up to max levels, mostly will be used for Blu-Ray HD sound, Directv HD, and occasional cds, at moderate levels.

I've read the reviews and the specs on the SVS SB12-plus and it sounds like a good sub, but I would like to get some first hand knowledge from some owners on what they think. I will not be cranking the volume up to max levels, mostly will be used for Blu-Ray HD sound, Directv HD, and occasional cds, at moderate levels.

The SB12 is a sub with excellent sound quality which particularly excels with music. Due to it's size, it's deep bass capabilities are somewhat limited and therefor has the least deep bass output in the SVS line. It's a good choice if you must go small.

What more can I tell you? I've had a pair from when they first came out over two years ago. If there are any more details I can help you with, ask away.:)

It turned out to be a bad cable. I have not had any issues with the sub once I replaced the cable.
What do you think of your PB12-NSD overall? I don't see a lot of discussion on the PB12. I got mine last week but I had a couple issues unfortunately. My new amp will be here tomorrow so I am hoping I will be very happy with it. Not so much so far :( but these things happen...

What more can I tell you? I've had a pair from when they first came out over two years ago. If there are any more details I can help you with, ask away.:)

You say you have a pair of SB12-plus, I would like to know how just one works. I do not plan on buying a pair.

You say you have a pair of SB12-plus, I would like to know how just one works. I do not plan on buying a pair.

The reason for the pair is that the room they are in is 6000+ cu.ft. and is open to the rest of the house. In your 2300 cu.ft., a single SB12 will do a good job up a decent volume. What it will not do is shake your foundation with killer deep bass. When played within is range of clean output, it's a great sounding sub. If you wish to play movies at very loud, so-called reference levels, the SB12 will not cut it.

I'd suggest trying corner-loading for a single SB12.

The previous rev of SVS subs got a bad rap for musicality. I never had a problem, but there were differences between them and some of the competing subs of that generation. The SVS seemed more bottom weighted. Over the last 2 years, they improved the NSD line, brought out the Ultra13 and now the Plus is getting a facelift. No one's heard it yet, but talking to Stephen Ponte, it's going to feature a more overdamped sound, "sealed like", with great extention and power. What you're likely to notice is the SQ improvement vs output (which is limited by the same physical dimenions, driver size and power). So what you're worried about shouldn't be a problem. There weren't any phase timing problems with the earlier Plus subs. They weren't sloppy or slow. The new sub should be quite a musical improvement as well. Hope this helps.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my inquiry. You have relieved me of a lot of anxiety I was having about ordering one before it underwent critical review.

I'm looking for a sub(s) for my HT. Open for all suggestions at this point.

Room size is roughly 13x24x9.

Been looking at the 20-39PCI and getting 2 or perhaps getting one of the new PC12-Plus or older 20-39Plus.

Does anyone have a similar size room with either of these for suggestions?

Thanks.


Also, is anyone near Atlanta willing to let me listen to one of their setups? Of any SVS sub.

I tried the 20-39PC+ in a wide open, 8800cf space. It was almost there and gave some good punch, but the room was just too big. Traded it in on the +/2. Now I'm good. I think I would spend the $100 and preorder the new PC+. The motor is beefier and looks to be based on the Ultra design.

Anbody experience problems with their amp on the SVS 20-39 PC+. I had it running fine for about 10 minutes through Iron Man, decided to move it to another corner to see the sound difference. Now it won't power back on. When you turn off the switch, you can hear a very faint whine, but when you turn it on, it is silent and no green light.

SVS told me to unlpug it and turn it off for an hour, possibly a capacitor?

Anybody experience the same issue?

I'm looking for a sub(s) for my HT. Open for all suggestions at this point.

Room size is roughly 13x24x9.

Been looking at the 20-39PCI and getting 2 or perhaps getting one of the new PC12-Plus or older 20-39Plus.

Does anyone have a similar size room with either of these for suggestions?

Thanks.


Also, is anyone near Atlanta willing to let me listen to one of their setups? Of any SVS sub.

In my @2,000^3 room my two Pb10 for me weren't quite enough for HT. Your 2,808^3 room one 20-39 Pci maybe good for your needs but for me I would want two. 2 Pb10 is suppose to have the same output as one old plus. So if I were you I would get the new Pc12 plus . If it weren't enough get another later. But if you have a tighter budget and you want mainly a ht experience vs music the 20-39 Pci two of those probably would be the best deal. Hard to say what you like. One maybe enough for you??

for normal people, i think a PB10 in a sealed 2k room should be sufficient :D

for normal people, i think a PB10 in a sealed 2k room should be sufficient :D

So is this for "Normal People". :eek:

http://i.testfreaks.com/images/products/600x400/73/bose-acoustimass-16-speakers.435017.jpg

You say you have a pair of SB12-plus, I would like to know how just one works. I do not plan on buying a pair.

I have one. I have had it for about 8 months. First of all, I love it, :D, no exaggeration, but bear in mind, this is my first sub. It is my favorite part of my audio equipment, no doubt. The thing that brought my HT experience to a level I never had experienced...I am just glad I didn't wait any longer. I might have never gotten a sub, if it wasn't for my new plasma tv, which had speakers that rattled. So I decided to do the HT thing, including getting a sub for the first time. Just wow. It rumbles, grumbles, slams, plays music I do not regret it that is for sure. I listen to movies around -5 to -8 usually, and that gives me plenty of sound. If you listen at a lower level, it is probably fine too. All that said, do not be concerned if you see other posts by me in other threads about getting an Ultra-13. It is something I have considered just because I am convinced, for me, I will have fun with it, that it should be a step up, deeper extension etc. But if for some reason I cannot get it, afford it, whatever, I would happily enjoy the SB-12plus that I already have. ;) HT is cool for me right now, with what I got, my movie/tv/music experience is better than ever.:D

for normal people, i think a PB10 in a sealed 2k room should be sufficient :D

Don't think I'm normal! :D

Want to have the most bang for the buck....I"m leaning towards getting a PB13 now. Maybe another later.

Still thinking about the PB12-plus too.

Don't think I'm normal! :D

Want to have the most bang for the buck....I"m leaning towards getting a PB13 now. Maybe another later.

Still thinking about the PB12-plus too.

if you are even thinking about the PB13 - i recommend that you save money to get what you really want ... you'll upgrade anyway, might as well spend it right the first time.

if you are even thinking about the PB13 - i recommend that you save money to get what you really want ... you'll upgrade anyway, might as well spend it right the first time.

+1. In the past year and a half I've gone from a Velodyne VX-10 to an Infinity PS212 to a single SVS PB10-NSD, then added a second PB10-NSD, and finally sold those and got an Epik Castle. Take it from me - it's much cheaper to do it right the first time :D. And jagerbombster, I'm not normal either. My Castle is in a 900 cubic foot sealed room.

Hi guys. I posted a little while ago when I experienced what I believed to be a driver bottoming out on my SVS B4+. Link below of review of the sub:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_3/svs-b4-subwoofer-9-2003.html

I'm running a Quest QA-3000 pro-amp (Australian Made) which is bridged to 2100watts. As a poster said above these new Audio tracks are extremely high in the bass department. I have my sub calibrated below 75db (approx 70db) at reference being 0 on the receiver (Onkyo 805 using as pre-pro). I never get anywhere near reference normally around -14 on the volume when listening to True-HD or DTS-HD MA. I hear a metal ding sound during a bass heavy moment ie Ironman breaking the sound barrier for the first time and now in the new Hulk movie where his fighting the Abomination has him on the ground and punches him I hear it again. The peak limiter light on the amp flashes briefy as well. I mean could the amp really be drawing 2100watts to power these scenes? Going by that review of the B4+ it should be capable of handling these bass bits. There are 4 port holes in this sub and at the moment I have 2 blocked. I'm getting a bit frustrated and disappointed that I'm finding the limits of this sub. The reason I went all out and spent the money which was alot was so I had a sub that could handle anything that was thrown at it and I'm not running this hot at all. I read reviews of other subs like the Fathom series handling these scenes no problem as well as the PB13Ultra. I mean this sub of mine has 4 12" drivers but I simply cannot see where the other 2 are in relation to the 2 which are facing outwards (silver cone on both ends of the sub). I have e-mailed SVS but no one has photos or a decent diagram showing the outlay of the B4+. I really need anwsers before I either buy some new 12" drivers from a local seller here in Australia being Deep HZ, or simply turn down the sub more and live with it. I'm hoping someone on this forum has this subwoofer and can enlighten me on some of the questions and problems I'm experiencing. Thanks in advance.

simon, i am totally not familiar with that subwoofer ... but you should get a hold of the SVS big guns like Ed M, Ron S about the B4+

also, maybe a subsonic filter would do you good (it's basically a highpass filter, that lets you UP the volume on the frequencies that matter and stop the low frequencies from bottoming your sub)

there are many ways to get a highpass filter:
-Behringer units like the DCX models
-Velodyne SMS-1
-FMODs

Thanks for the reply Ribbit. I sent SVS a few e-mails explaining my problem and Ron did get involved but even he didn't have a detailed pic or production photos of the Sub. I got a basic sketch from them showing the driver layout but it was hard to see. From the drawing it showed the 2nd lot of drivers directly behind the ones that have the cones showing on both ends of the sub. I really had a close look inside the centre enclosure and cannot see how there could be a driver behind the other ones. When you look at the driver on one of the ends it's end goes into the centre of the sub (centre enclosure) refer to the link that users the term centre enclosure to know what I mean. I was told that there are definatly 4 drivers but I cannot see where the end of the drivers are other than the 2 that are visible from both ends of the sub. God it gets very confusing and it's hard to explain it to people without actually looking at one in the flesh. I need someone at SVS to find a pic or draw a proper diagram to show me the configuration. If indeed I need to replace a driver I need to know how to access it. I mean I'm hoping whoever designed had that in mind in case of a driver failure. Thanks again for your suggestions will have a read about them.

It doesn't look as though anyone has any advice for me on this in the sub thread so I thought I'd repost here. My question is on whether or not bass traps are a necessary evil to be used in my bedroom. The room itself is a "live" room (plaster & lath (older house). I listen/watch movies 90% of the time and enjoy the sound from my left front corner placed Svs Pb10-Nsd, but what do I know about how "good" sound is supposed to sound? This is my 1st surround sound system. Maybe I could benefit from these bass traps? The placement more than anything would be tough because I want my bedroom to look like a bedroom not a studio of some sort.

I just built a bass trap (and will build the second one today) and the results were very impressive, even with my cheap speakers and no subwoofer. The cost was under $200 for both.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1084641

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply Ribbit. I sent SVS a few e-mails explaining my problem and Ron did get involved but even he didn't have a detailed pic or production photos of the Sub. I got a basic sketch from them showing the driver layout but it was hard to see. From the drawing it showed the 2nd lot of drivers directly behind the ones that have the cones showing on both ends of the sub. I really had a close look inside the centre enclosure and cannot see how there could be a driver behind the other ones. When you look at the driver on one of the ends it's end goes into the centre of the sub (centre enclosure) refer to the link that users the term centre enclosure to know what I mean. I was told that there are definatly 4 drivers but I cannot see where the end of the drivers are other than the 2 that are visible from both ends of the sub. God it gets very confusing and it's hard to explain it to people without actually looking at one in the flesh. I need someone at SVS to find a pic or draw a proper diagram to show me the configuration. If indeed I need to replace a driver I need to know how to access it. I mean I'm hoping whoever designed had that in mind in case of a driver failure. Thanks again for your suggestions will have a read about them.

These pics might help, Simon. Please keep working with Jack or myself in Tech Support as needed.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_3/svs-b4-subwoofer-9-2003.html

First post in this thread. I have had a 20-39 PCi for about 3 years now. I recently upgraded to an Onkyo 705 and noticed the driver was bottoming badly when playing the Pink Floyd Pulse DVD during the Learning to Fly track. I called SVS and was told that my driver should be changed. Since I was no longer under warranty, I had to buy the new driver, which is better than the original driver for this sub anyway, I was told.

In any case, things are better now but I can still get the driver to bottom quite easily (with the volume setting on the Onkyo at -5). This is loud but not LOUD.

The volume knob on the sub is at about the 10 O'clock position.

Audyssey set the sub trim to -6dB, which I have not changed.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Yes, that was it. With Audyssey off, I had to go to the +1 volume setting on the Onkyo before the bottoming started (the receiver levels are calibrated to 75dB, i.e., reference level, at the main listening position, 12 feet away, when showing zero on the volume scale) with no problems. This is really loud for me, and a level I would never have gone to unless I was trying to push it as I did for this experiment.



Actually, the flavor of Audyssey the 705 has (MultEQ XT) does equalize the sub using upto 64 filters for the sub alone.
http://www.audyssey.com/technology/multEQ_products.html
This was one of the selling points for me, over MCACC, for example.



I just played Sorrow with Audyssey on, at the reference level; ear-ringing volume but no driver bottoming :):). The sustained bass on that track caused no issues. It is only the drum (tympani?) beat eleven seconds into "Learning to Fly" which is doing this to me.

Apropos of the posts above, based on several posts in the Audyssey thread, it looks like Audyssey may be applyig a 10dB boost at 10Hz, which may be responsible for driver bottoming that several people have now reported with Audyssey on.

Because the overall results of Audyssey equalization are so much superior to not having Audyssey engaged (at least in my case, YMMV), I want to see if a high pass filter set at 15Hz or so can cure the problem.

Clearly, this is an unusual frequency for a high pass filter, and a quick search did not find any. I was wondering whether some thing like this exists.

I just got a 20-39pc+ w/ 12.3 driver. I don't have a spl meter yet so what do I set the phase knob to? thanks!

0 for now, once you get a meter you can try to tune the phase b slowly turning it to give you the highest output, but I haven't seen too many people that benefit from any more from the 0 setting.

i have a 20x24x9ft room with a 4ft opening is the pb13ultra a little to much or go with the pb12ultra,thanks

That's a pretty big room, you could even go dual PB13's in there, but one would still work very nicely.

Which svs would be the best for under $600 shipped. One that is decent for both music and ht.

You have a grand total of two choices:

PB10-NSD ($429 + shipping)
25-31 PCi ($499 + shipping)

And for a few bucks over $600 including shipping:

20-39 PCi ($549 + shipping)

I owned two PB10's and they sounded good for both music and HT. Not sure how big your room is or what your listening habits are, so I can't really say whether either of these subs will have enough output. The 25-31 PCi will be louder, but the PB10-NSD will dig a little deeper. The 20-39 PCi will give almost as much output as the 25-31 PCi while offering comparable extension to the PB10-NSD. All three are good subs. Whether they're "enough" sub for you will be determined by a bunch of factors I don't know about. I'd personally opt for the 20-39 PCi, but the choice is up to you of course. Good luck :).

You have a grand total of two choices:

PB10-NSD ($429 + shipping)
25-31 PCi ($499 + shipping)

And for a few bucks over $600 including shipping:

20-39 PCi ($549 + shipping)

I owned two PB10's and they sounded good for both music and HT. Not sure how big your room is or what your listening habits are, so I can't really say whether either of these subs will have enough output. The 25-31 PCi will be louder, but the PB10-NSD will dig a little deeper. The 20-39 PCi will give almost as much output as the 25-31 PCi while offering comparable extension to the PB10-NSD. All three are good subs. Whether they're "enough" sub for you will be determined by a bunch of factors I don't know about. I'd personally opt for the 20-39 PCi, but the choice is up to you of course. Good luck :).

It's for a smaller room and will be used mainly for music with some HT. I want to be able to feel the punch of the bass but nothing to boomy if that makes sense.

i have a 20x24x9ft room with a 4ft opening is the pb13ultra a little to much or go with the pb12ultra,thanks

My room is 13x24x9 and I'm going to get the PB13Ultra....don't want any doubts.:)

These pics might help, Simon. Please keep working with Jack or myself in Tech Support as needed

Those pics haven't helped me since I ran into this issue :). They dont show the 4 drivers in any shape or form in the push/pull config. When you look at the centre chamber it's looks like the ends are from the drivers that are visible on both ends of the cabinet with the cones showing. But I've been told that there are 2 lots of drivers on both ends with one being behind the other? I dont see how that's possible if the ends of these drivers are so big and long. I've measured the distance from the front driver cone to where I can see the beginnings of the end part (magnet) of the driver. I just fail to see where all 4 drivers are in the cabinet. I appreciate your time on the matter though and the e-mails have helped a bit. Need an x-ray machine :).

Hi everyone. I have a question. Is it possible to bottom a 20-39PC+ with the following setup. All speakers calibrated even, not running sub hot, receiver set to -16, LFE@00dB, sub gain @11. Watched The Incredible Hulk last night, and the last battle scene where the two combatants are dangling from the helicopter, and fall, I hear a loud knock once. I replayed it and i heard it again. This is in a 1750 cu. foot room. Should this be possible, and can a sub bottom a couple of times without damaging it?

Thanks for your input,
Sven

I experienced the same problem last nite watching the new Star Wars: Clone Wars cartoon movie. I was playing in Dolby TrueHD and a couple of times I heard a loud KNOCK too. I will have to turn it down a little, very aggravating!!!

Have you gotten any feedback on this issue with the new soundtracks for blu-rays?
Thanks.

It's for a smaller room and will be used mainly for music with some HT. I want to be able to feel the punch of the bass but nothing to boomy if that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense. Be sure to calibrate whatever sub you get, and if it's an SVS, any boominess will be introduced by the room (you may need to experiment with placement and/or equalization if that's the case).

I put in zip code 61080 and the shipping for the 20-39 PCi is 55.01 at www.svsound.com/calculator.cfm. Given that it's a "smaller" room, I think floor space might be at a premium, so I'd look at a cylinder. I think the 20 Hz tuned cylinders are the sweet spot. If the $4.01 blows your budget, I say we take up a collection. If you find yourself in AZ, I'll throw you a 5 spot and you can keep the change. :)

-Robb

Don't think I'm normal! :D

Want to have the most bang for the buck....I"m leaning towards getting a PB13 now. Maybe another later.

Still thinking about the PB12-plus too.
Hi,
I own a PB12 Plus and I am very happy with it.
It is huge though!!!!
I had serious problems with WAF and I ended up positioning it in a not perfect location were it looks like a tall coffea table.
This position makes my sofa letterally shaking and waving. I can feel waves passing trough the sofa cushions. Fun, but certailnly difficult to handle some deeps in the curve.
The only problem I had was with Audyssey MultEQ which is pumping up the bass too much making my sub bottoming and also blowing the fuse.
This happended when I tuned the sub to 16Hz putting one plug set the knob consequently and run Audyssey setup.
My gain knob is at the second line, and Audyssey set it upto +/-0 dB.

I asked Audyssey and they said they never experienced that problem in their SVS PB12 Plus they have in their demo room, tuned the same way.
SVS told me to NOT tune it and let it work at 20Hz which is not a good answer since the product claims to tunable at 16 or 12 Hz.

I ended up letting one port blocked and turning the lowpass filter back to 20 Hz.
This gave be the best sound I ever got from the sub.
Don't ask me which is the chemistry of this formula, I do not know, but it really works fine for me.

I wonder how it would work tuned at 12 Hz and with the knob at 16 Hz, but I am not keen in creating more bottoming occasions or blown fuses.

Any idea or experience on the matter will be welcome.

ciao from Italy.

enzo

What is your 20-39 PC+ series? 12.1, 12.2, or the newer 12.3? (Experiencing the knock?)

Are you blocking any of the ports? Knob set to 20Hz? Did you Cal it with SPL meter or Avia II?

What is your 20-39 PC+ series? 12.1, 12.2, or the newer 12.3? (Experiencing the knock?)

Are you blocking any of the ports? Knob set to 20Hz? Did you Cal it with SPL meter or Avia II?

I don't know if this is directed to to me or arango1, but anyway, mine is the 12.3 plus woofer. All ports open. Knob set at 20Hz. Measured with Radio Shack SPL meter.

Sven

I experienced the same problem last nite watching the new Star Wars: Clone Wars cartoon movie. I was playing in Dolby TrueHD and a couple of times I heard a loud KNOCK too. I will have to turn it down a little, very aggravating!!!

Have you gotten any feedback on this issue with the new soundtracks for blu-rays?
Thanks.

Arango1, this version was regular DVD. So I can't answer about Blu-Ray.

Sven

Makes perfect sense. Be sure to calibrate whatever sub you get, and if it's an SVS, any boominess will be introduced by the room (you may need to experiment with placement and/or equalization if that's the case).

I put in zip code 61080 and the shipping for the 20-39 PCi is 55.01 at www.svsound.com/calculator.cfm. Given that it's a "smaller" room, I think floor space might be at a premium, so I'd look at a cylinder. I think the 20 Hz tuned cylinders are the sweet spot. If the $4.01 blows your budget, I say we take up a collection. If you find yourself in AZ, I'll throw you a 5 spot and you can keep the change. :)

-Robb

Thanks for the offer. Don't think that will blow my budget by too much. In my room there is really no place to put it in the corner. Does a box or cylinder perform any better than the other in difficult room placement?

Thanks for the offer. Don't think that will blow my budget by too much. In my room there is really no place to put it in the corner. Does a box or cylinder perform any better than the other in difficult room placement?

One should not have any advantage over the other as far as difficult rooms. The cylinder has more options, usually, due to its smaller footprint, but since it sounds like you only have one place to put it, it won't matter.

-Robb

After reading through many threads, I've decided to buy an SVS sub. I was set on the new PC12-NSD, which will be coming soon, until I just thought of something. Would the 25-31 PC-Plus be a better performing sub? I would want the 20hz performance of the 20-39 PCi, but I figure with the tunable ports on the plus series, I could tune for that anyways.

Does anyone know if the performance of a 25-31 Plus tuned to 20 Hz would be as accurate, and as loud (spl wise), as a normal 20-39 PCi? The price difference with the clearance on the Plus series is making me rethink this. Hopefully someone here can help me out. Thanks.

You have a grand total of two choices:

PB10-NSD ($429 + shipping)
25-31 PCi ($499 + shipping)

And for a few bucks over $600 including shipping:

20-39 PCi ($549 + shipping)

I owned two PB10's and they sounded good for both music and HT. Not sure how big your room is or what your listening habits are, so I can't really say whether either of these subs will have enough output. The 25-31 PCi will be louder, but the PB10-NSD will dig a little deeper. The 20-39 PCi will give almost as much output as the 25-31 PCi while offering comparable extension to the PB10-NSD. All three are good subs. Whether they're "enough" sub for you will be determined by a bunch of factors I don't know about. I'd personally opt for the 20-39 PCi, but the choice is up to you of course. Good luck :).

I might be selling a 25-31 tuned to 22hz..

I might be selling a 25-31 tuned to 22hz..

Alright alright...that's another choice...:p

What are you going to replace it with, Pain?

if you are even thinking about the PB13 - i recommend that you save money to get what you really want ... you'll upgrade anyway, might as well spend it right the first time.

That's what people said when the PB12+/2 first came out and then again when the Ultra/2 came out and then the PB13 and .... Ultra13/2?, PB15?, 18?

I agree that people should get the sub they think they want, but it will never be upgrade proof.

That's what people said when the PB12+/2 first came out and then again when the Ultra/2 came out and then the PB13 and .... Ultra13/2?, PB15?, 18?

I agree that people should get the sub they think they want, but it will never be upgrade proof.

yeah, but it'd buy you some time...

i had about 2-3 months in between my 1st sub and 2nd sub
7 months from the 2nd and 3rd
etc etc etc

i received my first ultra feb 2008 ... still going, albeit i did buy more than 1 :D

I have an update. I decided to purchase a new amp to power the B4+ which is this one:


http://www.behringer.com/EP2500/index.cfm?lang=eng

Going by the specs it should meet the needs of the sub. I'm getting it tomorrow (Thursday 20th Nov08) so will hook it up and post my impressions.

The Behringer is an excellent amp. It's very powerful and built like a tank, but it has a noisy fan which can be very annoying. If the fan bothers you, there is a simple modification to swap to a quiet fan.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/3658-quieter-fan-mod-behringer-ep2500.html

Wife approved, ordered the SVS PC 12+, soon to join my SVS 20-39 PC+ which I upgraded the driver to 12.3 and new amp, never had two subs before so it should be fun!

Since I am stationed overseas in Germany, everything else is too heavy to order USPS. So I had to choose the best sub to meet shipping requirements, the PC12+ still seems to be a good sub.

I want to upgrade my 5.1 system. I actually have good reason as I wish to move my current 5.1 system from my media room to the upstairs family room. I currently use the AV123 X-series (4 x-ls, 1 x-cs and 1 x-sub) in my media room. They are good for what they are but I'm now ready to upgrade and move things around.

So would the SBS-01 system coupled with the PB10-NSD be a good fit and a worthy upgrade? The room is not a dedicated theater room and it is rather large. I would estimate 16' x 30' and I might be underestimating a bit. I am currently using a Pioneer VSX-94 receiver.
I'm probably a 60 movie/25 broadcast tv/15 music listener and out of the 60% movie, 59% is Blu-ray. HD pic and sound whenever possible.

I understand this is the sub forum/thread but if anyone could comment on this proposed setup, I would appreciate it. I'm hoping there are some SBS owners in here.
Thanks!

Kreativeimages -

I'll be heading to Germany in Feb 2010 - Ramstein, (have to do a year in Korea first!) but I just wanted to ask how much the shipping is going to be on your SVS sub to Germany?

I'm contemplating ordering now (possibly SVS) and taking it to Korea myself - but may just hold off.

Thanks

Erik hasn't emailed me the price quote yet, I am assuming around $100 do to the size and weight.

I also ordered a new Bash Amp and the 12.3 Driver upgrade, the amp took a dump when it got here.

I will be at Ramstein for at least another 2 years, I own a store at the BX. Hopefully by the time you get here the new KMC Mall will be open.

I wouldn't buy the sub yet, that's a lot of lugging around and might risk damaging the sub during constant moving.

I want to upgrade my 5.1 system. I actually have good reason as I wish to move my current 5.1 system from my media room to the upstairs family room. I currently use the AV123 X-series (4 x-ls, 1 x-cs and 1 x-sub) in my media room. They are good for what they are but I'm now ready to upgrade and move things around.

So would the SBS-01 system coupled with the PB10-NSD be a good fit and a worthy upgrade? The room is not a dedicated theater room and it is rather large. I would estimate 16' x 30' and I might be underestimating a bit. I am currently using a Pioneer VSX-94 receiver.
I'm probably a 60 movie/25 broadcast tv/15 music listener and out of the 60% movie, 59% is Blu-ray. HD pic and sound whenever possible.

I understand this is the sub forum/thread but if anyone could comment on this proposed setup, I would appreciate it. I'm hoping there are some SBS owners in here.
Thanks!I've heard the SVS and xls packages, but don't own either. I liked them both and really couldn't choose which I prefer (it's been awhile)...in other words, it's a lateral move for the speakers, an upgrade with the PB10. That said, with your room, I think you're undersubbed with the PB10. It's all relative to your expections, but you're in Ultra territory if you're in a 4000 cube + room. A real upgrade would be the MTS package w/new Plus or Ultra13.

GO SCS-01s for the FRONT L/R/C and SBS for the surrounds. THAT is a kick ass upgrade my friend!

Much better than SBS-01s all around.

GO SCS-01s for the FRONT L/R/C and SBS for the surrounds. THAT is a kick ass upgrade my friend!

Much better than SBS-01s all around.
And a Pb12 nsd at least if the Ultra is to much $$

I've heard the SVS and xls packages, but don't own either. I liked them both and really couldn't choose which I prefer (it's been awhile)...in other words, it's a lateral move for the speakers, an upgrade with the PB10. That said, with your room, I think you're undersubbed with the PB10. It's all relative to your expections, but you're in Ultra territory if you're in a 4000 cube + room. A real upgrade would be the MTS package w/new Plus or Ultra13.

GO SCS-01s for the FRONT L/R/C and SBS for the surrounds. THAT is a kick ass upgrade my friend!

Much better than SBS-01s all around.

And a Pb12 nsd at least if the Ultra is to much $$

Alright, thanks for the responses.
Yes, the Ultra is going to be too much $ but i can swing the extra $150 for the PB12-nsd if it's justified.
I didn't think about going with SCS's for all 3 fronts and SBS's for the surrounds. That's an idea I can look at too.
I certainly don't want to make a lateral move. I do want an upgrade. I pretty much thought anything in the SVS line would be an upgrade over the x-series.

I just purchased an PBUltra and I'm wondering if I made a mistake.

Should I have purchased 2 NSD's instead or 2Plus? Could save some money on the NSDs.

One PB13 should have plenty of output for a 3000cuft room right?

I just purchased an PBUltra and I'm wondering if I made a mistake.

Should I have purchased 2 NSD's instead or 2Plus? Could save some money on the NSDs.

One PB13 should have plenty of output for a 3000cuft room right?

i have two 12 NSD's right now, and i wouldn't replace a single ultra with the pair o' NSD's :)

ultra benefits:
-variable tuning
-better SQ
-goes lower - louder

Wife approved, ordered the SVS PC 12+, soon to join my SVS 20-39 PC+ which I upgraded the driver to 12.3 and new amp, never had two subs before so it should be fun!

Since I am stationed overseas in Germany, everything else is too heavy to order USPS. So I had to choose the best sub to meet shipping requirements, the PC12+ still seems to be a good sub.


Doesn't the pc12+ have the 12.4 driver! would it match the 12.3? what did Ed M. had to say about it?

The reason why I'm asking is beacause I have a 20-39pc+ from 4 years ago and decided to get a 2nd since they discontinued and ordered a 12.3 driver for my older one.

I'm not sure if the older is 12.1 or 12.2, if anybody interested PM me.

I never asked SVS if my new updated 20-39 PC+ with 12.3 driver would match the new PC+... I sent Spyboy a PM on some questions, but I am hoping they should sound good together. I never had 2 subs together, so I have no clue what to expect on bass or sound?


I am very curious to know what the PC+ will be like since nobody on the forums has gotten theres. No reviews, kinda scary paying almost a grand and not knowing how it will be, I am just going with their reputation and hoping for the best.

I never asked SVS if my new updated 20-39 PC+ with 12.3 driver would match the new PC+... I sent Spyboy a PM on some questions, but I am hoping they should sound good together. I never had 2 subs together, so I have no clue what to expect on bass or sound?


I am very curious to know what the PC+ will be like since nobody on the forums has gotten theres. No reviews, kinda scary paying almost a grand and not knowing how it will be, I am just going with their reputation and hoping for the best.I had a 12.2 DIY box along with a tube 12.3 and it was awesome. I wouldn't worry at all for HT duty. You might prefer to run just the single 12.4 for music...or not :D.

I am very curious to know what the PC+ will be like since nobody on the forums has gotten theres. No reviews, kinda scary paying almost a grand and not knowing how it will be, I am just going with their reputation and hoping for the best.

"Don't be afraid Luke." Got my new PB12-Plus yesterday. Am I dissapointed? Ahhhhhh NO!!! What a work of Art! Piano Black is very, very nice indeed. That front grill would make Iron Man envious! It's very heavy! The magnets are scary powerfull too. It's NOT going to come off. Via the sub pounding away OR any wild kids foot. No need to fear damaging the cone for sure.

Spent some time callibrating this bad boy today. This guy is powerfull and tactile. I play Bass Guitar and I can tell you, this thing makes a bass, sound like a Bass. Very responsive. Iron Man was scary. My room is roughly 15x30 and it has no problem making me smile. I could literally feel the gun shots in Iron Man. And the scene near the end with the "bad" iron man when he walks and then blasts off. Hold crap man! No semi poor man's home theater should sound like this. I mean really.

In case you are curious. So far I have only listened to it tuned at its native 20Hz. Pre-Amp XO @ 80. Speakers all set to small. PEQ not enabled. All turned full left as suggested in the CD manual.

The build quality of this guy AND thier new MTS line is stunning. Ok, this is my first post and NO I am not a secret employee of SVS. I have however owned nearly every one of thier cylinders at one time or another and I can tell you that this my friends is a winner! (This is my 1st. SVS "box" sub). If you were able to get in on the pre-order congrats! If not, thier full price is still a bargan. It's just the right size and has TONS of power. You wife will like it also.

The only negative is my dog sheds like it's going out of style, so dusting off piano side panels is a daily task, but one I would be doing even if I didn't have a dog. :D

Bottom line? They are beautifull, tactile and they will shake your money maker! :p

Edit:
Also listened to quite a bit of music today too and it blends very well with my MTS-01's. Very well indeed.

share some pics Dominion! :D

share some pics Dominion! :D

I wish I could, by my wife is visiting family back home and took the digital camera. :o

Since I did get the piano black, it would'nt photograph very well anyways...

Hopefully someone else will be able to feed the need for pic's! :cool:

Can somebody please help me find thread on calibrating two or more subs and some multiple sub layouts for home theater.


Or anybody calibrating two SVS Cylinders.
Thanks. :)

Can somebody please help me find thread on calibrating two or more subs and some multiple sub layouts for home theater.


Or anybody calibrating two SVS Cylinders.
Thanks. :)

I just did mine and they sound excellent. I'm not sure if you have audyssey but you can follow the general rules under section III-IV

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895#post14456895

Can somebody please help me find thread on calibrating two or more subs and some multiple sub layouts for home theater.


Or anybody calibrating two SVS Cylinders.
Thanks. :)


Here is the calibration routine for dual subwoofers:

1. Set the AVR master volume to 0.0
2. Set the phase to 0 on both subs.
3. Set the SPL meter to C-weighted Slow 70 scale at the listening position, at head level, pointed at the front stage, and angled upward at a 45 degree angle.
4.Play the test tones for all speaker channels and adjust each channel to 75 dB on the meter (that would be +5 on the meter when set to the 70 scale).
5. Set the subwoofer channel level to +1 in the AVR.
6. Turn on subwoofer #1 only. Play the subwoofer test tone and adjust the gain on subwoofer #1 until the SPL meter reads 72-74 dB (it will fluctuate so try for an average of 73 dB).
7. Turn on subwoofer #2 only. Play the subwoofer test tone and adjust the gain on subwoofer #2 until the SPL meter reads 72-74 dB (it will fluctuate so try for an average of 73 dB).
8. Turn on both subwoofers. Play the subwoofer test tone and verify there is a 6 dB increase to 78-80 dB (an average of 79 dB).
9. If there is not a 6 dB increase, adjust the phase on the CLOSER subwoofer until you get the most possible reinforcement. If the subs are separated, you may only get 4 dB max. A helper is useful at this point.
10. Once you have achieved the most possible reinforcement, reduce the subwoofer channel level until the combined SPL with both subwoofers running is 73-75 dB on average.

Enjoy!

Hi Jack. Those yellow fonts are really tough to read. I took the liberty to go and repost your suggestions.



Here is the calibration routine for dual subwoofers:

1.Set the AVR master volume to 0.0
2.Set the phase to 0 on both subs.
3.Set the SPL meter to C-weighted Slow 70 scale at the listening position, at head level, pointed at the front stage, and angled upward at a 45 degree angle.
4.Play the test tones for all speaker channels and adjust each channel to 75 dB on the meter (that would be +5 on the meter when set to the 70 scale).
5.Set the subwoofer channel level to +1 in the AVR.
6.Turn on subwoofer #1 only. Play the subwoofer test tone and adjust the gain on subwoofer #1 until the SPL meter reads 72-74 dB (it will fluctuate so try for an average of 73 dB).

Turn on subwoofer #2 only. Play the subwoofer test tone and adjust the gain on subwoofer #2 until the SPL meter reads 72-74 dB (it will fluctuate so try for an average of 73 dB).
Turn on both subwoofers. Play the subwoofer test tone and verify there is a 6 dB increase to 78-80 dB (an average of 79 dB).
If there is not a 6 dB increase, adjust the phase on the CLOSER subwoofer until you get the most possible reinforcement. If the subs are separated, you may only get 4 dB max. A helper is useful at this point.
Once you have achieved the most possible reinforcement, reduce the subwoofer channel level until the combined SPL with both subwoofers running is 73-75 dB on average.

Hi Jack. those yellow fonts are really tough to read. I took the liberty to go and repost your suggestions.

Thanks...you're quick :) Not sure why it formatted like that, but it's fixed.

Thanks guys, LOL about the yellow fonts. I have Audyssey with the Denon 3808ci. I also bought a SPL meter from Radio Shack and the Avia II disc.

Cheers!

Thanks guys, LOL about the yellow fonts. I have Audyssey with the Denon 3808ci. I also bought a SPL meter from Radio Shack and the Avia II disc.

Cheers!
Once you get the subs dialed in as explained above, let MultEQ XT do its thing and you're good-to-go. :)

Quick question, Am I using the test tones provided with Avia or the Denon receiver? Thank you for taking the time to find the information and making it easy to understand.

The internal test tones will work fine to get the subs playing nicely with each other.

Here is the calibration routine for dual subwoofers:

1. Set the AVR master volume to 0.0
2. Set the phase to 0 on both subs.
3. Set the SPL meter to C-weighted Slow 70 scale at the listening position, at head level, pointed at the front stage, and angled upward at a 45 degree angle.
4.Play the test tones for all speaker channels and adjust each channel to 75 dB on the meter (that would be +5 on the meter when set to the 70 scale).
5. Set the subwoofer channel level to +1 in the AVR.
6. Turn on subwoofer #1 only. Play the subwoofer test tone and adjust the gain on subwoofer #1 until the SPL meter reads 72-74 dB (it will fluctuate so try for an average of 73 dB).
7. Turn on subwoofer #2 only. Play the subwoofer test tone and adjust the gain on subwoofer #2 until the SPL meter reads 72-74 dB (it will fluctuate so try for an average of 73 dB).
8. Turn on both subwoofers. Play the subwoofer test tone and verify there is a 6 dB increase to 78-80 dB (an average of 79 dB).
9. If there is not a 6 dB increase, adjust the phase on the CLOSER subwoofer until you get the most possible reinforcement. If the subs are separated, you may only get 4 dB max. A helper is useful at this point.
10. Once you have achieved the most possible reinforcement, reduce the subwoofer channel level until the combined SPL with both subwoofers running is 73-75 dB on average.

Enjoy!

Awesome! Thanks!

Hi this is my first post and i was glade to see a SVS thread, just wanted to share my system, i will post some pics tomorrow.

My system is

Reciver is a Pioneer VSX94TXH ELITE
Front speakers -SVS MTS-01
Center -SVS MCS-01
Rear -SVS MBS-01
SUB - SVS PB12NSD/2
SACD - Pioneer DV48-AV
Blu-Ray Samsung BD-1400
TV - Sharp Aquos 52in LCD
Remote - Logitech Harmoney 1000

very nice kirk.


I actually just got my PC12-NSD delivered today. I haven't seen anyone even mention it hardly.

Hi, It has been my great good fortune to pick up a pair of used SVS 16-46+ subs along with a Samson S1000 to drive them. I love them.:)

I sorta splurged by purchasing them and was pondering whether I should use an Adcom GFA555II I've owned for some time to drive them. I could then sell the Samson amp. Currently I use the Adcom as an amp hooked up to the main preamp outs of my Denon AVR3805 to drive a pair of, easy to drive, Mirage speakers.

The damping factor specs on the Adcom is greater than the Samson, I live in a relatively small apartment. Hopefully I'd upgrade or equal the fidelity of the Samson driving the subs.

I was wondering if anyone here might have any experience using a GFA555II driving these subs or any thoughts as to the wisdom of trying to do so?

Here's a link to the Adcom owners manual: http://www.adcom.com/data/manuals/gfa555IImanual.pdf

And the Samson manual:
http://www.samsontech.com/products/relatedDocs/s700-s1000_manual.pdf

I assume I'd use the Adcom in stereo rather than bridged mode as there are two subs?

It's been recommended to get a SVS SB12-PLUS to round out my Defitive Tech 2002 (12" powered sub) towers. I'm running a Denon 3808, PS3, on a Panasonic 58PZ800 Plasma. 30% HT, 30% music (CD), 30% SDTV, 20% HDTV. Where would I buy it on the net??

It's been recommended to get a SVS SB12-PLUS to round out my Defitive Tech 2002 (12" powered sub) towers. I'm running a Denon 3808, PS3, on a Panasonic 58PZ800 Plasma. 30% HT, 30% music (CD), 30% SDTV, 20% HDTV. Where would I buy it on the net??

Here's a link:

SB12-Plus
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm

I'm curious why you wouldn't consider something like the PB12-NSD or PB12-Plus instead. They'll offer a lot more output and should still have great sound quality (especially the PB12-Plus). The only real downside is that they're larger.

PB12-NSD
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm

PB12-Plus
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-newpb12plus.cfm

Good luck.

It's been recommended to get a SVS SB12-PLUS to round out my Definitive Tech 2002 (12" powered sub) towers. I'm running a Denon 3808, PS3, on a Panasonic 58PZ800 Plasma. 30% HT, 30% music (CD), 30% SDTV, 20% HDTV. Where would I buy it on the net??You would get it HERE (http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm). You might want to explain what you're attempting to achieve and allow some to help guide you. The SB12 may not be your best choice.

ransac & lalakerfan34,
Thank you for your feed back! I'm upgrading my SD to HD, from TV to AVR to Blu-ray. I was told that my current speaker sysytem was lacking. Defenitive Tech 2002 towers w/ 12" subwoofers and DT centers and rears did not complete the sub range. The speaker first recommended was the Rel T2, price point driven $700. With other forums and talk, the SVS and HSU subs were recommended. I'm a fish out of water when talking tech stuff, but can read reviews. I watch allot of sports, watch DVDs and alittle music to round my free time.

Hi, It has been my great good fortune to pick up a pair of used SVS 16-46+ subs along with a Samson S1000 to drive them. I love them.:)

I sorta splurged by purchasing them and was pondering whether I should use an Adcom GFA555II I've owned for some time to drive them. I could then sell the Samson amp. Currently I use the Adcom as an amp hooked up to the main preamp outs of my Denon AVR3805 to drive a pair of, easy to drive, Mirage speakers.

The damping factor specs on the Adcom is greater than the Samson, I live in a relatively small apartment. Hopefully I'd upgrade or equal the fidelity of the Samson driving the subs.

I was wondering if anyone here might have any experience using a GFA555II driving these subs or any thoughts as to the wisdom of trying to do so?

Here's a link to the Adcom owners manual: http://www.adcom.com/data/manuals/gfa555IImanual.pdf

And the Samson manual:
http://www.samsontech.com/products/relatedDocs/s700-s1000_manual.pdf

I assume I'd use the Adcom in stereo rather than bridged mode as there are two subs?

I just wanted to let y'all know what extraordinary customer service I received from SVS.

I wrote them with my questions last night. They answered affirmatively on the use of the Adcom first thing this morning.

Not only did they answer my questions rapidly but Mr Mullen added this:
You get SVS support for the life of your product, even if you purchased it used, so if you have any more set-up or calibration questions, don’t hesitate to give us a shout at Tech Support. :^)


I really couldn't be more pleased with their product or their service.:D

Ed is the real deal. He's knowledgeable, personable, and strives to satisfy customers. He continually goes above and beyond the expectations of those he helps. I can't think of a person I'd rather deal with for support or even a friendly discussion of this hobby. Ed is an asset to SVS and one of the reasons I won't ever hesitate to recommend their products. Enjoy your subs!

^ +1 ^

Ed is the real deal. He's knowledgeable, personable, and strives to satisfy customers. He continually goes above and beyond the expectations of those he helps. I can't think of a person I'd rather deal with for support or even a friendly discussion of this hobby. Ed is an asset to SVS and one of the reasons I won't ever hesitate to recommend their products. Enjoy your subs!

The only downside to Ed, is he drives a Chevy!

Agred Ed is a huge asset to SVS. He spent an hour talking to buddy at CEDIA, it was him, that made my buddy buy from SVS.

Michael

ransac & lalakerfan34,
Thank you for your feed back! I'm upgrading my SD to HD, from TV to AVR to Blu-ray. I was told that my current speaker sysytem was lacking. Defenitive Tech 2002 towers w/ 12" subwoofers and DT centers and rears did not complete the sub range. The speaker first recommended was the Rel T2, price point driven $700. With other forums and talk, the SVS and HSU subs were recommended. I'm a fish out of water when talking tech stuff, but can read reviews. I watch allot of sports, watch DVDs and alittle music to round my free time.

RETNAV,

I usually recommend the SB12-Plus for music-only systems, or where space is at a premium. You should take a look at the PB12-NSD or the PC12-NSD. If you can swing the extra coin, look at the PB12-Plus or PC12-Plus. The SB12 is an incredible sub (I own one in a music only system of mine) but it won't dig as deep as those others, and that is something you will notice with movies.

-Robb

My SB12-Plus arrived last night. Got it in piano black and it looks great with my Def Tech Mythos and Pioneer Plasma.

This is my first sub other than HTiB. Absolutely love it. I can't believe how great it is with music. I agree with others that the ported models would be better for movies but it is plenty for smaller rooms, even with movies IMO. I had the WAF to deal with so of course the SB12+ was at the top of my short list of choices.

The SB12-Plus is pretty amazing for a little sub. Try corner-loading it for more low-end boundary gain for movies.

The SVS SB12-PLUS tends to be more music that HT?? For now I have my two Def Tech subs and want to add one for both music and HT.

I've got it sitting against the front wall but not in the corner of the room. I do have a large built in cabinet directly left of the sub that acts as another wall though so I'm guess that could be considered corner loading.

I just finished watching a few scenes of Predator BD with the DTS HD Master Audio track with the volume at -10. The scene where Cook fires the mini gun after Blaine gets cut down sounded awesome. SB12+ had my new foundation shaking a little.

The SVS SB12-PLUS tends to be more music that HT?? For now I have my two Def Tech subs and want to add one for both music and HT.The reason people say it is for music instead of HT is due to it's higher low-end roll off. In normal situations, it won't dig as deep as the bigger box ported subs. That doesn't mean it won't be a good HT sub, just not as powerful in the lower frequencies. If you want that <20Hz shake-the-foundation performance, then a PC12-NSD, PB12-NSD, PB12-Plus or PC12-Plus is what you should consider. If you don't care to get real low or you want to gamble that you will have enough room gain, then the SB12-Plus may just fit the bill.

Don't let that roll off fool you, that little 12" Sealed box really packs a punch for movies, and as ransac has mentioned, there are other subs that will dig deeper, like the ported versions, but when I was running the SB-12+ in my small room, it still could shake things up quite well..... My son has it up in his room above me in the house and I am constantly feeling that little monster pound....

I'm sure this has been asked dozens of times before and you all have answered it the same way each and every time, but what are the differences between box and cylinder subs. I'm looking at getting an svs sub in the next month (currnetly looking at the pb12-nsd) and want to make sure I've made the right choice before I spend the cash.

I'm sure this has been asked dozens of times before and you all have answered it the same way each and every time, but what are the differences between box and cylinder subs. I'm looking at getting an svs sub in the next month (currnetly looking at the pb12-nsd) and want to make sure I've made the right choice before I spend the cash.

For all intents and purposes, just think of the differences between a PB and a a PC as the same sub in a different shape and form. Performance differences are not worth mentioning. Chose the form that suits your lifestyle best.

I'm sure this has been asked dozens of times before and you all have answered it the same way each and every time, but what are the differences between box and cylinder subs. I'm looking at getting an svs sub in the next month (currnetly looking at the pb12-nsd) and want to make sure I've made the right choice before I spend the cash.

http://www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm#cylinderorbox

4) What's best for me? Cylinder or Box SVS subwoofer?

Like so many things in life... it depends. Some folks like the cutting-edge, unique and understated elegance of our space-saving cylinder subwoofers, others value the more traditional but likewise slick simplicity of our box designs. In fact, aesthetics ... how you want your sub to look ... is probably the most significant consideration in your decision here. Still, there are some other "pro's and con's" to consider, and even the question of "looks" isn't as straightforward as it might seem at first. How you weigh these issues is clearly a personal call:

In short, cylinders tend to cost less, are noticeably taller, but at the same time lighter and easier to move. They take up far less precious floor space too. Boxes tend to have considerably more "heft" (requiring more "grunt" to place them; most require two people to move very far), have nice flat tops you can put things on, yet cost a bit more than the closest performing cylinder equivalent. Want further discussion on this eternal question??? Read on.

Cylinder Subwoofers:
The original SVS subwoofer designs were all cylinder-based for some very good reasons. First and foremost it's a very efficient audio enclosure from a number of perspectives. The internal pressures of a subwoofer of this class can be intense! Ever wonder why cylinders are used to contain compressed gasses? They can't stretch easily, and tend to resist forms of wall distortion that boxes must combat. In short, a box wall must be many times thicker and heavier to equal the strength of a simple cylinder. This affects several things in turn...

Weight: For a equal level of performance and enclosure space (the key to getting deep and powerfully clean bass) a cylinder will be lighter, and that means easier to move around your room, or from house to house as you go through life. One example. Our PB12-NSD weighs in around 75 pounds. The smallest powered cylinder, the 20-39 PCi is virtually a sonic clone in performance, but weighs nearly 20 pounds less. Now, 20 pounds might not sound like much, until you haul one up to the top floor of a dorm room, or nudge one into a tight spot in a basement. Most our cylinders you can sling on your shoulder, most our box subs are decidedly "two-person lift" entities. Of course we know that for some customers weight is good, it connotes quality and value. If you fall into this camp, then the relative light weight of a PCi isn't an advantage. In practical terms most folks will find 55 pounds quite enough!

Floor space: Because our cylinders go "up, not out" they can contain prodigious amounts of internal volume that would make for a huge box "foot-print". While a round cylinder base-plate can't snug into the very corner of a room like a box can, our cylinder subs still tend to take up less floor space than a box equivalent.

Finish/looks: All our cylinder subs are finished in a tough knit velvet-like black fabric we sourced from a high-end architectural supply company. Its light scattering properties means even our tallest cylinder subs practically disappear in a dark room corner. We've had reports of spouses that didn't even notice a surreptitious SVS upgrade until it was pointed out to them. As a result of the understate design we’ve sold countless thousands of them and most folks love their look. Some don't. They prefer the harder, more conventional edges of a box and fine textured finish or wood veneers. While our entry level box finishes are a similar shade of black, the fact they are not fabric covered enclosures is a plus, and we're not one's to argue. We developed high-performance SVS box subs precisely because folks asked for a more traditional design as an option.

Cost: Because the cylinder design is so efficient and relatively simple to manufacture, an equivalent box subwoofer will tend to cost more. Not much, but for some folks every audio budget dollar counts. A PB12-Plus and similarly performing 20-39PC+ favor the PC+ by $50. Now, you might light Cuban cigars with $50 bills, but if per chance you don't, at least you understand that a box design can cost a bit more up front. Shipping naturally adds costs too, and depending on where you live you can expect a Powered Box to cost roughly $25-50 or so more to ship given their greater weight. Our shipping rates are still amazingly low no matter how price sensitive you are, but if you are especially cost sensitive, the Powered Cylinders have a slight edge that might matter.


Box Subwoofers:

So cylinders have it "all over" boxes, right? Not exactly. Even though we engineer audio solutions for demanding buyers, there is nothing quite perfect (to our way of thinking). Cylinders have their advantages, and so too do their box brethren.

Size: While their designs are similar in nature (using common woofers, amps, ports etc) SVS box subs tend to strike some folks as less visually obtrusive. All while taking up more floor space. Why?? Box subs tend to be able to tuck tightly into a corner (you still need a few inches for the rear firing ports to breathe) and are naturally much shorter to boot. A PB12-NSD is a robust 21" tall (shedding its first generation basepate), while even our shortest cylinder sub is a little over 35" tall. This mid-sized Powered Box is a whopping 25" deep however, while the "Powered Cylinders" a mere 16" in diameter, and thus can fit into the tightest floor-space any theater or media room might present. But our great finishes make a box work like an end table, perfect drink height near a couch. Use a coaster so your Martini is shaken, not stirred.

Performance: If enclosure volume is about the same, there are no significant disadvantages, in terms of raw performance, due to a box shape versus a cylinder. But (there has to be a "but" right??)... boxes do lend themselves to multi-driver configurations that are simply not practical in a cylinder design. The PB12-NSD has single woofer so as you might expect, it's virtually identical to a 20Hz tuned version of our 20-39PCi subwoofer (especially since it shares all the same parts as the PCi subs). If you are with us so far then, you already know that when we released a PB12-Plus/2 a few years back (Powered Box, with two 12" "Plus" woofers and three way porting) you could expect it to perform nearly like two of our top-selling and industry-unique 20-39PC-Plus subs. Boxes can be made bigger and more powerful than a cylinder for those wanting the pinnacle of performance in a single sub.

Cost: Any single woofer box sub from SVS we'll offer will tend to cost about 10% more than its closest performing cylinder equivalent due to more costly enclosure construction, including the offering of premium wood or gloss finishes. Yet, considering even the lowest cost SVS box subs, like the PB10-NSD already outperforms most subs costing from $200 to $1,500 more than ours, we don't think boxes levey much of a premium. In the case of that entry level Powered Box sub, we are actually under the least expensive Powered Cylinder, the amazing 25-31PCi.

Finish: Again, some folks like boxes, others hate them due to their relative commonality in the speaker world. Regardless of how you feel about that, the tough cured-poly finish of the textured black, the beautiful woods or the elegant piano gloss box subs are all stunningly attractive and still durable enough to live in the real world. Textured black is probably the most forgiving of tough rooms, where kids and pets might rule the day. Even the sexy gloss black has been specifically developed to avoid the fragility of lesser versions of this finish. Customers who actually own top brand pianos have commented that their SVS is actually better in the level of depth and quality we offer. The woods are unmatched on our powered boxes. You would have to look long and hard to find any premium quality furniture with workmanship so meticulous or materials this fine.

Practicality: There is not much more practical than a simple box (as long as you have plenty of floor space). You can put it in a corner, put a plant on it, put a lamp on it, put Granny's picture on it (as long as you understand Granny might be moving around a bit during the pod-race scene in Star Wars: The Phantom Menace). A sub like our PB12-NSD will be impervious to your kids' peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, it'll be immune to the most vicious house cat (though to be fair, we've not had one owner report any defeating our tough cylinder subwoofer fabric either). Plants, your best friend's bottle of beer, and that 50 lb. bust of Beethoven are all very bad things to put on top of our cylinder subs by comparison. Their tops must be un-obstructed as their top-firing ports are protected by a relatively light-weight mesh grill. If this matters to you, the box SVS's gain another point in their favor.

For all intents and purposes, just think of the differences between a PB and a a PC as the same sub in a different shape and form. Performance differences are not worth mentioning. Chose the form that suits your lifestyle best.

Wouldn't the fact that one is front firing and the other is top/bottom firing change things at all?
I guess I should have mentioned this before, but I'm living on the bottom level of an apartment, so would it be better/"more neighborly" to get a box sub?

Wouldn't the fact that one is front firing and the other is top/bottom firing change things at all?
I guess I should have mentioned this before, but I'm living on the bottom level of an apartment, so would it be better/"more neighborly" to get a box sub?

Since the bass is pretty much omnidirectional, it doesn't really make much difference. You are likely to piss off the neighbors either way.:D

Since the bass is pretty much omnidirectional, it doesn't really make much difference. You are likely to piss off the neighbors either way.:D

Excellent, exactly what I've always wanted to do :D

http://www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm#cylinderorbox

Alright, well after reading that, I think I'm a little more inclined to go with a cylinder sub. Having a little extra floor space would be nice.

Can someone explain to me how pc12-nsd compares to the 20-39 cs-plus?

I'm guessing, because I'm asking that, I shouldn't even consider the 20-39 (the svs site says it's for advanced users, and that doesn't sound like me ... yet).

If you own one or the other, how do you like it?

The CS series is unpowered meaning you need to provide a separate amplifier. Also, ideally you would have some sort of means of having a low filter below the tuning point. This is why it is suggested only for advanced users.

The CS series is unpowered meaning you need to provide a separate amplifier. Also, ideally you would have some sort of means of having a low filter below the tuning point. This is why it is suggested only for advanced users.

Well that helps rule out the 20-39, and as long as the PC12-nsd and the pb12-nsd are effectively "brothers", i think i'll be going with the PC. Hopefully someone on here has one and is willing to vouch for it.

Ed is the real deal. He's knowledgeable, personable, and strives to satisfy customers. He continually goes above and beyond the expectations of those he helps. I can't think of a person I'd rather deal with for support or even a friendly discussion of this hobby. Ed is an asset to SVS and one of the reasons I won't ever hesitate to recommend their products. Enjoy your subs!

Yup--my experience exactly!

I've even been in his house and enjoyed his fantastic home system.

People like Ed will keep me in SVS for life...

I currently have the KEF 3005 SE system but I want more out of my sub. Will the PB12-plus be too much for my KEF satellites and center speaker? Will I need to upgrade my whole system to match the PB12?

My room is about 33'x24' with a 12' ceiling. Will the PB12 be enough? I sit about 10' away from the TV.

I currently have the KEF 3005 SE system but I want more out of my sub. Will the PB12-plus be too much for my KEF satellites and center speaker? Will I need to upgrade my whole system to match the PB12?

My room is about 33'x24' with a 12' ceiling. Will the PB12 be enough? I sit about 10' away from the TV.

Holy cow that is a big room.

If you can afford the PB12-Plus, invest another 40-50 bucks (if you haven't already) and get a RadioShack SPL meter. You can use this meter to adjust the speaker/subwoofer levels in your receiver so they'll put out approximately the same SPL. This helps ensure the PB12 won't be "too much" for your KEF speakers- it equalizes everything.

You certainly do not have to upgrade your whole system either- using that SPL meter and the test tones in your receiver will equalize and balance everything to your tastes. Well, I guess you could use the sub as an excuse to upgrade everything if you needed an excuse ;)

In that large of a room, I'm not exactly sure how the PB12 would fare. If it's within your budget, I might even consider going for an Ultra if you can. I'd also suggest e-mailing SVS with the dimensions/maybe a drawing of your room, and they'll give you honest advice.

Good luck with your search- I think either way you'll have a very satisfactory experience no matter what you purchase from SVS.

-Tyler

I currently have the KEF 3005 SE system but I want more out of my sub. Will the PB12-plus be too much for my KEF satellites and center speaker? Will I need to upgrade my whole system to match the PB12?

My room is about 33'x24' with a 12' ceiling. Will the PB12 be enough? I sit about 10' away from the TV.

Hey neighbor! I live probably less than 5 minutes from you :). If you ever want to do a HT hangout, let me know.

Anyway, your room is huge, and the more sub the better. As the previous poster said, as long as you calibrate your system correctly, the subwoofer shouldn't be "too much" for your satellite speakers. I don't know what finish you want for your sub, but right now SVS has a B-stock PB13 Ultra for $1399 (only about $250 more than the Plus) in Rosenut with no defects. They also have a B-stock PC13-Ultra for only $1199 with no defects as well, if the cylinder form factor would work out for you. I'd strongly recommend getting as much subwoofer as you can. 33'x24'x12' is right around 9500 cubic feet, and if your room opens up to other rooms, your space is even bigger. Most members here would be looking at probably two Ultras for that space, but to be honest most of us are a little bass-crazy, so one Ultra would likely be great.

As for upgrading your whole system, no, you shouldn't NEED to, but in a room that large you'll get far better dynamics and a more seamless blend between your sub and speakers if you have larger speakers. I'd say upgrade the sub for now and if you feel the need in the future, you can upgrade your speakers later.

Hey neighbor! I live probably less than 5 minutes from you :). If you ever want to do a HT hangout, let me know.

Anyway, your room is huge, and the more sub the better. As the previous poster said, as long as you calibrate your system correctly, the subwoofer shouldn't be "too much" for your satellite speakers. I don't know what finish you want for your sub, but right now SVS has a B-stock PB13 Ultra for $1399 (only about $250 more than the Plus) in Rosenut with no defects. They also have a B-stock PC13-Ultra for only $1199 with no defects as well, if the cylinder form factor would work out for you. I'd strongly recommend getting as much subwoofer as you can. 33'x24'x12' is right around 9500 cubic feet, and if your room opens up to other rooms, your space is even bigger. Most members here would be looking at probably two Ultras for that space, but to be honest most of us are a little bass-crazy, so one Ultra would likely be great.

As for upgrading your whole system, no, you shouldn't NEED to, but in a room that large you'll get far better dynamics and a more seamless blend between your sub and speakers if you have larger speakers. I'd say upgrade the sub for now and if you feel the need in the future, you can upgrade your speakers later.

Hey, go Lakers! Thanks for your input. I looked at the SVS site and I only see the B-stock PB13 left. That is a little more than I wanted to spend, but since I was considering the PB12 Plus, this would only be a couple hundred more. Do you think it's worth the upgrade. I do like bass though! :D

What kind of set up do you have? Maybe I can stop by and check it out. I'm kind of new to this whole AV world. Spending a grand for my KEF 3005 SE was a big step for me...haha. But after visiting the Magnolia showroom at Best Buy, I was totally blown away and not my 3005 speakers seem so weak to me.

But yeah, my room is kinda big. My living room and kitchen are attached with no wall in between them. So anyway, do you think I should pull the trigger right away on the B-stock PB 13?

The PB13 is a truly great sub. Just do it. It will keep you from thinking would'a, could'a, should'a later on.

Hey, go Lakers! Thanks for your input. I looked at the SVS site and I only see the B-stock PB13 left. That is a little more than I wanted to spend, but since I was considering the PB12 Plus, this would only be a couple hundred more. Do you think it's worth the upgrade. I do like bass though! :D

What kind of set up do you have? Maybe I can stop by and check it out. I'm kind of new to this whole AV world. Spending a grand for my KEF 3005 SE was a big step for me...haha. But after visiting the Magnolia showroom at Best Buy, I was totally blown away and not my 3005 speakers seem so weak to me.

But yeah, my room is kinda big. My living room and kitchen are attached with no wall in between them. So anyway, do you think I should pull the trigger right away on the B-stock PB 13?

The SVS B-stocks tend to go fast. If you can swing the extra $200+ I'd strongly recommend it. Of course keep in mind that the PB12 Plus and PB13 Ultra will both blow the socks off of the KEF sub you have now, but I think that huge room of yours will be better served by the Ultra. Sorry I mentioned the PC13 - it was there earlier this morning, but I guess someone snatched it up. Told you those SVS B-stocks go fast!

BTW, I totally agree with Mike. Get the Ultra now and you have no "what if's" later on. No regrets. You already got the best SVS offers. All you can do from there is add a second.

The SVS B-stocks tend to go fast. If you can swing the extra $200+ I'd strongly recommend it. Of course keep in mind that the PB12 Plus and PB13 Ultra will both blow the socks off of the KEF sub you have now, but I think that huge room of yours will be better served by the Ultra. Sorry I mentioned the PC13 - it was there earlier this morning, but I guess someone snatched it up. Told you those SVS B-stocks go fast!

BTW, I totally agree with Mike. Get the Ultra now and you have no "what if's" later on. No regrets. You already got the best SVS offers. All you can do from there is add a second.

Ahhh! I tried ordering it online but my credit card isn't being approved. I think it's because the total amount is so high so my bank has a hold on it or something. So I'll have to order it like at 3pm when school is out. (I'm a teacher) If it's gone, then I'll get the PB 12 Plus.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I have the Onkyo 705, will that be enough to drive the SVS sub?

Ahhh! I tried ordering it online but my credit card isn't being approved. I think it's because the total amount is so high so my bank has a hold on it or something. So I'll have to order it like at 3pm when school is out. (I'm a teacher) If it's gone, then I'll get the PB 12 Plus.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I have the Onkyo 705, will that be enough to drive the SVS sub?

No problem with any AVR, your 705 has sub out and that is all you need.

If you miss the Ultra 13 wait, it is worth it.

What kind of set up do you have? Maybe I can stop by and check it out. I'm kind of new to this whole AV world. Spending a grand for my KEF 3005 SE was a big step for me...haha. But after visiting the Magnolia showroom at Best Buy, I was totally blown away and not my 3005 speakers seem so weak to me.


My setup is nothing grand compared to a lot of the people here. It's also in a really small room (actually a bedroom - I'm a college student still living at home, so my setup is all in my room). But considering the room and my somewhat limited funds, it's pretty sweet IMO. Here's a basic list of components:


TV: Samsung 4042H LCD 720p HDTV
Projector: Mitsubishi HC3000 DLP 720p Projector w/73" 16x9 pull down screen
Receiver: Marantz SR4001
Front Speakers: JBL L830 x2
Center Speaker: JBL S-Center II
Surround Speakers: JBL Tour x4
Subwoofer: Epik Castle
Blu-ray/Gaming: Sony Playstation 3
HD-DVD: Toshiba A3

Pretty modest by most standards, but in an 11'x10'x8' room, it's pretty potent :D. BTW, you're certainly welcome to come over and check it out sometime. If you wouldn't mind I'd like to see your setup as well. Good luck subwoofer shopping!

No problem with any AVR, your 705 has sub out and that is all you need.

If you miss the Ultra 13 wait, it is worth it.

Whoa nellie! I just ordered the Ultra 13. Wow, that was a big purchase considering that it cost more than my whole KEF 3005 SE package. Can't wait for it to come! I'm sure I'll need some help with the setup. Get ready! :eek:

Whoa nellie! I just ordered the Ultra 13. Wow, that was a big purchase considering that it cost more than my whole KEF 3005 SE package. Can't wait for it to come! I'm sure I'll need some help with the setup. Get ready! :eek:

Ready! I'll even come over if you want hands-on help...

Ready! I'll even come over if you want hands-on help...Careful, it will make you want to buy an Ultra.:)

Ready! I'll even come over if you want hands-on help...

Sweet! I'll let you know when it arrives. In the meantime, I guess I'll start saving for replacement speakers for my KEFs. I'd like to get 3 new front speakers. I'm looking at the KEF iQ series:

iQ6c for the center
iQ5/7/9 for the fronts

Any suggestions?

I ordered a PB13-Ultra in Rosenut today. Should look pretty sweet next to my AV123 rosewood Rockets.

Careful, it will make you want to buy an Ultra.:)

I don't know about that. From Craig's tests, the PB13-Ultra and my current sub (Castle) are pretty comparable. Seeing as I have no WAF to deal with, I don't think I could see myself spending that much money for similar performance. Of course, I could run both my Castle AND an Ultra...hmmm....too bad there's not enough room for both in my <1000 cubic foot room :cool:.

I must admit though that while I really do want to help terminal33, I also selfishly want to see and hear the Ultra :D. Hopefully I can do both soon. Congrats terminal33. Going from that small KEF to the Ultra is a humongous upgrade! I'm sure you'll love it.

I ordered a PB13-Ultra in Rosenut today. Should look pretty sweet next to my AV123 rosewood Rockets.
SlushPuppy,
I would love to audition that thing if you are up for it. I am not sure I have the depth for a couple of PB13-Ultras, but they are on my short list.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/JKW/IMAGE_092.jpg

SlushPuppy,
I would love to audition that thing if you are up for it. I am not sure I have the depth for a couple of PB13-Ultras, but they are on my short list.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/JKW/IMAGE_092.jpg

If you can't fit the PB13's, I could sure see how a pair of PC13-Ultra cylinders could fit one in each front corner ;)

Ok so now that I have my PB 13 Ultra ordered, I'm looking into a setup for my fronts. I looked at what SVS has to offer along with KEF. Which one is better to match my sub?

Center: SVS MCS-01 or KEF iQ6c
Fronts: SVS MTS-01 or KEF iQ5, iQ 7, or i Q9

Ok so now that I have my PB 13 Ultra ordered, I'm looking into a setup for my fronts. I looked at what SVS has to offer along with KEF. Which one is better to match my sub?

Center: SVS MCS-01 or KEF iQ6c
Fronts: SVS MTS-01 or KEF iQ5, iQ 7, or i Q9

From the standpoint of sonically matching your sub, it makes no difference at all. Visually, the SVS speakers can be had in the same finish as the PB13.

What exactly are the differences in performance between the cylinders, and conventional woofers?<------IGNORE THIS QUESTION :o

I have a fairly small room 18'x12', and currently have dual SCII's, which are "cute" :p. Although, considering what I paid for them, I can't complain. I wanted to stick with dual subs, but obviously would purchase just one at a time, considering I could buy 4 SC'S with the cost of 1 ultra.

Also, are these things as huge as the specs indicate? I know it may seem like a silly question, but sometimes measurements can be a bit misleading. I am looking to do three towers across the front as my front soundstage. I only have roughly 41" of clearance, and 80-90" across the front. Each tower is about 6-8" in width, so space may become an issue.

Thanks

Edit: Also, how low do these guys actually go?

Some more info I should include. My usage primarily consists of movies. LOTS of 'em! I would like to put both subs right across the front, to the insides of the towers. This will have them "hugging" the center, as it will also be a matching tower. I will only have about 5" of space between the two subs, and the center though. Would this be a problem?

Also, I have a Pro151, that is on a fully articulating wall mount that extends from the wall. Could all of this bass damage my set? :D And should I reinforce my wall mount?

I ordered a PB13-Ultra in Rosenut today. Should look pretty sweet next to my AV123 rosewood Rockets.

I got a Rosewood PB12+2 shortly after getting my Rosewood RS1ks and they are a perfect match.

In fact, the SVS sub is a better match than the ULW10 in Rosewood I recently got. Luckily,its in a different room.

My setup is nothing grand compared to a lot of the people here. It's also in a really small room (actually a bedroom - I'm a college student still living at home, so my setup is all in my room). But considering the room and my somewhat limited funds, it's pretty sweet IMO. Here's a basic list of components:


TV: Samsung 4042H LCD 720p HDTV
Projector: Mitsubishi HC3000 DLP 720p Projector w/73" 16x9 pull down screen
Receiver: Marantz SR4001
Front Speakers: JBL L830 x2
Center Speaker: JBL S-Center II
Surround Speakers: JBL Tour x4
Subwoofer: Epik Castle
Blu-ray/Gaming: Sony Playstation 3
HD-DVD: Toshiba A3

Pretty modest by most standards, but in an 11'x10'x8' room, it's pretty potent :D. BTW, you're certainly welcome to come over and check it out sometime. If you wouldn't mind I'd like to see your setup as well. Good luck subwoofer shopping!

I would say you are far ahead of the game. That is a sweet setup !

I ordered a PB13-Ultra in Rosenut today. Should look pretty sweet next to my AV123 rosewood Rockets.

Here is a little preview of what your combo will look like.....got mine a few weeks ago.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o315/jetjockey1/IMG_1671.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o315/jetjockey1/IMG_1670.jpg

You are in for a real treat...Enjoy!

From the standpoint of sonically matching your sub, it makes no difference at all. Visually, the SVS speakers can be had in the same finish as the PB13.

What about the SCS speakers? Are they about equal to the KEF iQ6c and iQ5?

What about the SCS speakers? Are they about equal to the KEF iQ6c and iQ5?

It's really hard to compare and say this speaker is equal to that speaker, especially if we haven't heard them both. Subwoofers are generally easier to compare; "this one gets louder and deeper with lower distortion than that one" means it's a safe bet that the former sub is the better performer of the two (an oversimplification, but you get the idea). Speakers often have different sonic characteristics that appeal to different people. One example is Klipsch. Many people cannot stand the sound of Klipsch speakers. They find them too forward and the high frequencies too pronounced. These people find Klipsch speakers to be fatiguing if listened to for any length of time, especially at higher volumes. Others love Klipsch speakers, find them very detailed, and enjoy the high sensitivity they have which allows them to get very loud with much lower requirements in terms of amplifier power. OTOH, I've never heard of anyone hearing a "good" subwoofer and not liking it. As far as I know, the PB13-Ultra is pretty much universally acclaimed for its sound quality, output, and extension. It's more of a cut and dry "good bass is good bass" kind of thing.

The best thing you can do with speakers is audition them yourself. Obviously that's not easy to do with the SVS speakers. You'll probably have to purchase them and try them in you home (which is the ideal way to audition anyway). The problem is if you don't like them you'll have to pay to ship them back to SVS. I'd say if you like the sound of your current KEF's, you'll probably like their better speakers. Whether you'll like them more than another brand - well, I can't really help you there.

Lalakersfan is right. No two different speakers are really ever equal. They all have their own strengths and weaknesses. Of all audio components, they are the ones that should ideally be auditioned in order to choose.

What about the SCS speakers? Are they about equal to the KEF iQ6c and iQ5?

I think my SCS's sound amazing. I have then paired with a PB-13.

Remember the law of diminishing returns my friend.

terminal33, one thing I'd look for is relatively high sensitivity. Your space is pretty large, and your Onkyo 705 could use all the help it can get filling that room. If you don't ever listen very loud sensitivity might not be much of a concern, but once you have a sub like the PB13-Ultra, you can't help but be curious as to how things would sound loud ;). The SVS SCS's have a sensitivity of 87dB/W/m. The KEF's are about the same - 88dB sensitivity - so I guess it's somewhat a moot point. Personally, I think speakers with 90dB sensitivity or above would be good for the room you're in if you won't be using separate amplification. I wouldn't buy speakers based solely on sensitivity, but if you're planning to listen loud in that large room, I'd recommend at least considering it when deciding on speakers.

Here is a little preview of what your combo will look like.....got mine a few weeks ago.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o315/jetjockey1/IMG_1671.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o315/jetjockey1/IMG_1670.jpg

You are in for a real treat...Enjoy!

Oh man, that's a perfect match. Simply gorgeous! I just got my tracking number a few minutes ago and feel like a kid the day before Christmas.

I'd like to give a shout-out to Ron at SVS for the fast (and VERY detailed) responses to my email messages. I was half expecting a generic letter with my name at the top, but his (full-page) response was anything but. THAT is customer service.

terminal33, one thing I'd look for is relatively high sensitivity. Your space is pretty large, and your Onkyo 705 could use all the help it can get filling that room. If you don't ever listen very loud sensitivity might not be much of a concern, but once you have a sub like the PB13-Ultra, you can't help but be curious as to how things would sound loud ;). The SVS SCS's have a sensitivity of 87dB/W/m. The KEF's are about the same - 88dB sensitivity - so I guess it's somewhat a moot point. Personally, I think speakers with 90dB sensitivity or above would be good for the room you're in if you won't be using separate amplification. I wouldn't buy speakers based solely on sensitivity, but if you're planning to listen loud in that large room, I'd recommend at least considering it when deciding on speakers.

LaLaker, are you saying you don't think the Onkyo 705 is powerful enough to do the Ultra justice?:confused: That is the receiver I have, and I am also thinking about an Ultra.

LaLaker, are you saying you don't think the Onkyo 705 is powerful enough to do the Ultra justice?:confused: That is the receiver I have, and I am also thinking about an Ultra.

No. The 705's amps have nothing to do with the subwoofer's output. The sub has it's own amp. What I'm saying is that the poster I was addressing has a very big room. Big rooms require a lot more output from the speakers than small rooms. So, if terminal33 wants to be able to really crank the volume in his huge room, he'd be better off with more sensitive speakers so that the 705's amps don't clip. I only mentioned the Ultra because once he has an incredible sub like the Ultra, he'll probably be more likely to WANT to play things loud, at which point the 705 (if paired with inefficient speakers) might run into problems.

No. The 705's amps have nothing to do with the subwoofer's output. The sub has it's own amp. What I'm saying is that the poster I was addressing has a very big room. Big rooms require a lot more output from the speakers than small rooms. So, if terminal33 wants to be able to really crank the volume in his huge room, he'd be better off with more sensitive speakers so that the 705's amps don't clip. I only mentioned the Ultra because once he has an incredible sub like the Ultra, he'll probably be more likely to WANT to play things loud, at which point the 705 (if paired with inefficient speakers) might run into problems.

OK thanks, Laker dude :cool:

I just tried a thread search and didn't find what I'm looking for.

Has anyone made a comparison of the Ultra 13 (box version) to Mark Seaton's submersive? If so, what did you find?

Here is a little preview of what your combo will look like.....got mine a few weeks ago.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o315/jetjockey1/IMG_1671.jpg

You are in for a real treat...Enjoy!

That is a beautiful setup--even the curtains seem to match! (Was that the intention when you started designing the system?)

I just tried a thread search and didn't find what I'm looking for.

Has anyone made a comparison of the Ultra 13 (box version) to Mark Seaton's submersive? If so, what did you find?

I don't think anyone has published that data.

Maybe Craigsub might if he can pry a submersive out of MS' hands.

I just tried a thread search and didn't find what I'm looking for.

Has anyone made a comparison of the Ultra 13 (box version) to Mark Seaton's submersive? If so, what did you find?rossandwendy went through the U13s vs Conquest battle, then finally settled on a Submersive. Other than some problems with the early Ultras, he had nothing negative to say about any of the subs. He prefers the Submersive, not so much for it's output capability vs the others, but for the deep extention coupled with the usual comments on stellar SQ. I had a link, but deleted it out of a PM. It's probably still up on MSs site.

rossandwendy went through the U13s vs Conquest battle, then finally settled on a Submersive. Other than some problems with the early Ultras, he had nothing negative to say about any of the subs. He prefers the Submersive, not so much for it's output capability vs the others, but for the deep extention coupled with the usual comments on stellar SQ. I had a link, but deleted it out of a PM. It's probably still up on MSs site.

Try this;

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/seatonsound/vpost?id=2922335

Try this;

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/seatonsound/vpost?id=2922335There ya go...

Personal Disclaimer: I haven't heard the Conquest or Submersive. I might be 100% behind Ross had I the opportunity, but knowing how many problems Ross had taming his setup, I think this is a case of just being the right piece of gear for his room and inclination. I know that I've been totally satisfied with my PB13 and then moved off that position, then back on. I've come to realize there is no one total solution. Some content works better with different setups and rooms. Get the best option you think likely to satisfy, then optomize it...until the next great thing comes along.

It's really hard to compare and say this speaker is equal to that speaker, especially if we haven't heard them both. Subwoofers are generally easier to compare; "this one gets louder and deeper with lower distortion than that one" means it's a safe bet that the former sub is the better performer of the two (an oversimplification, but you get the idea). Speakers often have different sonic characteristics that appeal to different people. One example is Klipsch. Many people cannot stand the sound of Klipsch speakers. They find them too forward and the high frequencies too pronounced. These people find Klipsch speakers to be fatiguing if listened to for any length of time, especially at higher volumes. Others love Klipsch speakers, find them very detailed, and enjoy the high sensitivity they have which allows them to get very loud with much lower requirements in terms of amplifier power. OTOH, I've never heard of anyone hearing a "good" subwoofer and not liking it. As far as I know, the PB13-Ultra is pretty much universally acclaimed for its sound quality, output, and extension. It's more of a cut and dry "good bass is good bass" kind of thing.

The best thing you can do with speakers is audition them yourself. Obviously that's not easy to do with the SVS speakers. You'll probably have to purchase them and try them in you home (which is the ideal way to audition anyway). The problem is if you don't like them you'll have to pay to ship them back to SVS. I'd say if you like the sound of your current KEF's, you'll probably like their better speakers. Whether you'll like them more than another brand - well, I can't really help you there.

Lalakersfan is right. No two different speakers are really ever equal. They all have their own strengths and weaknesses. Of all audio components, they are the ones that should ideally be auditioned in order to choose.

terminal33, one thing I'd look for is relatively high sensitivity. Your space is pretty large, and your Onkyo 705 could use all the help it can get filling that room. If you don't ever listen very loud sensitivity might not be much of a concern, but once you have a sub like the PB13-Ultra, you can't help but be curious as to how things would sound loud ;). The SVS SCS's have a sensitivity of 87dB/W/m. The KEF's are about the same - 88dB sensitivity - so I guess it's somewhat a moot point. Personally, I think speakers with 90dB sensitivity or above would be good for the room you're in if you won't be using separate amplification. I wouldn't buy speakers based solely on sensitivity, but if you're planning to listen loud in that large room, I'd recommend at least considering it when deciding on speakers.

Thanks for your input. I would love to have the MTS-01 towers....someday. But for now I'm leaning towards the MBS bookshelf speakers as mains and maybe the MCS center to go with it. Then I would use my KEF's as sides.

What do you think about this? I like my movies loud, but nothing that will make my ears pop. (BTW, I do 90% movies and 10% music, if that matters.)

Would the MBS and MCS speakers be a significant upgrade from my KEF's?

Thanks for your input. I would love to have the MTS-01 towers....someday. But for now I'm leaning towards the MBS bookshelf speakers as mains and maybe the MCS center to go with it. Then I would use my KEF's as sides.

What do you think about this? I like my movies loud, but nothing that will make my ears pop. (BTW, I do 90% movies and 10% music, if that matters.)

Would the MBS and MCS speakers be a significant upgrade from my KEF's?

From the small satellites that come with the 3005? I'd sure think so! I've never heard the SVS speakers (or those KEF's, though I did hear the 2005's and liked them quite a bit) but they're supposed to be quite good. Before you go on a crazy spending spree, I might hold off until the Ultra arrives. See how things work out there. Yes, I'm sure you'll want to upgrade your speakers in the future, but it's a good idea to pace yourself. This hobby has a way of inducing upgrades with alarming frequency. Since you just spent more on your sub than you spent on your entire previous setup, I think you should at least try it with your current speakers before running off and buying new speakers - that is, unless there's some crazy deal that requires you to buy them now.

BTW, do you have a tracking number yet? I was totally serious about being willing to go help you move the sub and dial it in. Keep me posted.

From the small satellites that come with the 3005? I'd sure think so! I've never heard the SVS speakers (or those KEF's, though I did hear the 2005's and liked them quite a bit) but they're supposed to be quite good. Before you go on a crazy spending spree, I might hold off until the Ultra arrives. See how things work out there. Yes, I'm sure you'll want to upgrade your speakers in the future, but it's a good idea to pace yourself. This hobby has a way of inducing upgrades with alarming frequency. Since you just spent more on your sub than you spent on your entire previous setup, I think you should at least try it with your current speakers before running off and buying new speakers - that is, unless there's some crazy deal that requires you to buy them now.

BTW, do you have a tracking number yet? I was totally serious about being willing to go help you move the sub and dial it in. Keep me posted.

I think you're right. I should wait and see how it sounds with my KEF's first. I'm glad you're here to help me think straight...:D.

I do have a tracking number. The Ultra will arrive in L.A. today and from there I don't know. It doesn't tell me a delivery date. But I will let you know when it gets here because I'm sure I'll need help setting it up. There are way too many knobs on the back of the sub!

I think you're right. I should wait and see how it sounds with my KEF's first. I'm glad you're here to help me think straight...:D.

I do have a tracking number. The Ultra will arrive in L.A. today and from there I don't know. It doesn't tell me a delivery date. But I will let you know when it gets here because I'm sure I'll need help setting it up. There are way too many knobs on the back of the sub!

Sounds good. I forgot the Ultra ships freight, not UPS. My previous SVS purchases were two PB10-NSD's, and those came via UPS. I've never dealt with Bax Global, so I don't know how that works either.

I think you'll be pretty happy with it when it arrives. You also might have a bit of shock with regard to how large it is :D. Should be a beauty though in the rosenut finish. Hope the wait isn't too unbearable!

Does anyone here own a "PC12-Plus". Trying to get some feedback before I order.

Does anyone here own a "PC12-Plus". Trying to get some feedback before I order.Read THIS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1085845) thread. Start at post 29.

Well...I joined the family yesterday. My PB13-Ultra arrived! The piano black is truely awesome. I sure did find out that I need to get in shape...moving this sub by yourself is a killer.:eek:

Hopefully I'll get it dialed in this coming weekend.

I am looking to find a new location for my sub and have found the best location is right under the screen. Due to the height of the PB12 Plus/2 its too high. Is there an issue with this sub if it is laid on it side?

I'm hoping that some of you guys can throw some stuff out there, that will help me decide between two sub woofers. All opinions are welcome. The Ultra or the Castle. The price and dimensions of each unit are okay, so no need to compare this. My listening room is 15 x 20 x 8 with one of the long sides half open. 70% HT and 30% music, but music is critical. I've studied each for a while and the written specs cancel each other out... it's time for personal opinion. Bias and unbiased welcome.