I'm hoping that some of you guys can throw some stuff out there, that will help me decide between two sub woofers. All opinions are welcome. The Ultra or the Castle. The price and dimensions of each unit are okay, so no need to compare this. My listening room is 15 x 20 x 8 with one of the long sides half open. 70% HT and 30% music, but music is critical. I've studied each for a while and the written specs cancel each other out...

Hi,

I was between the Ultra and the Castle in September and I ended up going with the Castle because of the lower price. Rumor has it that the Ultra might edge out the Castle in sound quality, while the Castle might have a little more output than the Ultra. I still haven't heard the Ultra (hoping to do so soon) but I have been very happy with my Castle. Sound quality is very good IMO and the thing hits hard! The Ultra is better looking and is available in different finishes if that's important. It also allows for deeper tuning than the Castle. The Castle is tuned at right about 19hz. The Ultra is tuned a little higher in its 20hz tune, but can also be tuned to dig substantially deeper with the 15hz, 10hz, or sealed modes. Note that these deeper tunes do affect overall output, though many have found the 15hz tune to be a "sweet spot", offering a good deal more extension with only a 1-2dB loss in output.

Both are great subs, but right now I'd recommend the Ultra because Epik is currently waiting for parts for all of its subs except its flagship, the Conquest. It's been this way for 2-3 weeks now and nobody knows when they'll be available again. However, currently you can't even place an order for the Castle, and when you can it's a good bet you'll be waiting a good 4-6 weeks once the parts come in again (my wait for the Castle was 5 weeks). There's also the issue of customer service. I was able to speak with Chad from Epik and he was a very nice guy and stands behinds his products, but he's clearly understaffed and overwhelmed. I've previously owned SVS and can say that I've never received service as good as theirs from anyone, anywhere. So if customer service is a priority to you, the Ultra probably has the advantage there - though those who have had problems with Epik seem to have had them resolved in a punctual manner as well.

Overall, in terms of sheer output and price/performance, I'd say the Epik probably wins this contest easily. It's $600 cheaper and, at least according to craigsub, basically traded blows with the Ultra in terms of output and sound quality. That said, the timeframe is completely up in the air, and I cannot recommend SVS as a company highly enough. If I were not a poor college student, I would have immediately gone to the Ultra as an upgrade from my prior subs (two PB10-NSD's), but as it was, the $600 price difference caused me to choose Epik. I can recommend either wholeheartedly, and it's my opinion that personal preference should be the deciding factor between these two subs, as they're both extremely good performers. Good luck.

Thx lalakersfan. Does the Ultra truly perform well when using in sealed mode? Could this be considered to be a real advantage to it's features? This question would go towards my desire to have a sub that can perform playing music CDs as well as HT. The Ultra is certainly more beautiful, however the Castle isn't butt ugly either.

I am running my Ultra in 20HZ mode, I am very picky about AQ, especially with music. In my HT (23x13x8), the AQ from the Ultra is simply superb, its mated with Rocket 850's and crossed at 100hz, no choice on the Panny BD55 thru analog out. It blends seamlessly with all the speakers and is easily the best addition to my system for overall improvement in the AQ arena.

No - in fact some do this and remove the bottom/base plate to expose the drivers while it plays.

I am looking to find a new location for my sub and have found the best location is right under the screen. Due to the height of the PB12 Plus/2 its too high. Is there an issue with this sub if it is laid on it side?

Well for anyone who cares I went to terminal33's place yesterday to help him out and got to see the Ultra in person for the first time. My first impression was "wow, that thing is big" (this coming from a Castle owner :p) followed immediately by "what a beautiful finish!" (love that Rosenut!). As for performance, it sounded great and blended very well with his speakers, even with a 100hz crossover and small KEF 3005 satellites. I was very impressed by its performance with HT (especially Transformers Blu-ray). Sure, it didn't hit nearly as hard as my Castle does in my <1,000 cubic foot room, but I was surprised at how visceral it could be in his nearly 10,000 cubic foot room! It still had impact, and there was plenty of tactile energy in the floor and couch. The lightweight drapes were flapping and we were achieving peaks up to about 104-105dB at the listening position in 15hz mode (keep in mind this is in a ~10k cubic foot room!). Overall I'd have to say I'm very impressed. We talked about maybe sometime lugging my Castle over to do a direct comparison between the Castle and the Ultra as well. Anyway, a big thanks to Andy - had great time and experiencing the Ultra was very cool. There's a reason they call it the Ultra ;).

I am running my Ultra in 20HZ mode, I am very picky about AQ, especially with music. In my HT (23x13x8), the AQ from the Ultra is simply superb, its mated with Rocket 850's and crossed at 100hz, no choice on the Panny BD55 thru analog out. It blends seamlessly with all the speakers and is easily the best addition to my system for overall improvement in the AQ arena.

Did you think about mating 2 mfw-15's with your Rockets or were you planning on going with an Ultra all along?
Just trying to get your thoughts about this as I'm struggling whether to go with an mfw-15 or SVS sub.

Did you think about mating 2 mfw-15's with your Rockets or were you planning on going with an Ultra all along?
Just trying to get your thoughts about this as I'm struggling whether to go with an mfw-15 or SVS sub.

I was at first going to go with the MFW or a pair, but there are far too many issues with QC for my liking and the worst part is that they (AV123) seem to be doing nothing to rectify any of the problems. Being in Canada added to the potential problems with customs getting involved etc.

Secondly, I didn't really want to spend as much as I did on Woofage but I kept telling myself, do it right and get the best and most reliable bang for your buck. I am VERY happy I spent the extra few dollars, the bulid quality and sheer brute power that this beast delivers is wicked:D

Good Luck!

Hi, shopping for my first sub and size is an issue. The room set up is 25x26x10 that opens up to the kitchen (no backwall) as well as two door ways on the right wall (front & back). So, I have one available corner (front left).

The SB12Plus is attractive in size, but I'm concerned the room size may neuter the sub.

I'm also looking at:

AV123 MFW-15
ED A3-300
HSU VTF2-MK3
SVS PB12-NSD

Any experience with these boxes you could share is appreciated. Thanks in advanced.

sorry abou that :)

A PB12 NSD should do very well in a room that size. I've got one in a 16x18x8 and it does not leave me wanting more.

Goes plenty low for movies yet still very "musical".

As with any speaker, room and placement are key.

So I pulled the Trigger on the PB13-U this morning. talked to a sales rep Erik K and he said my eta would be this Friday or Monday of next week. So, I won't be sleeping until tuesday.... :eek: :D

this forum has been a real big help in my decision with all of the research and comments. thanks!

Hey guys trying to set up a theater room for the first time and decided for my sub to go with either the new pb12+ or pb13. I can probably afford the ~$500 difference between the two, but I was wondering for my room size (dedicated 14X18.5x9) if it's worth the difference in cost. Would I be able to tell much of a difference between the two in the room at mostly regular listening volume levels?


Thanks for any feedback, opinions.

I'd think the two will sound very similar at medium listening levels. The PB13 will have higher limits and greater output especially down deep.

So I pulled the Trigger on the PB13-U this morning. talked to a sales rep Erik K and he said my eta would be this Friday or Monday of next week. So, I won't be sleeping until tuesday.... :eek: :D

this forum has been a real big help in my decision with all of the research and comments. thanks!

congrats! what was your previous sub again? :D

congrats! what was your previous sub again? :D

klipsch rw-12d

i hope there will be somewhat a difference in the lower end...
since it's frequency response is 24-120Hz, i think i will really hear a difference in the ultra's low end.

Hey guys looking for a little advice on a sub. I bought an eD A2-300, long story short, I was told I am over driving the sub. I was listening to what I thought were decent levels not too loud. In some Dark Knight scenes I get a loud thud, god awful sound. eD thought it might be Audssey, we trouble-shooted some stuff with Audssey off and trim level turned down but we still got the loud thud... In any case I will probably ship the sub back to eD ($50 lesson learned). A couple of co-workers have SVS subs and love them. One has the PB10 and the other has the PB12. They both love the sub. My question is compared to the A2-300 would I possibly have the same problem? Are SVS subs considerably better built, any sort of protection against clipping I think eD said it was clipping, etc? I have a 12x14 room or so, 8ft ceilings but one side is open to a staircase and another smaller loft, its kind of an open area... The receiver is an Onkyo 806. Given this, would the PB12 provide enough output? Thought and comments appreciated.

klipsch rw-12d

i hope there will be somewhat a difference in the lower end...
since it's frequency response is 24-120Hz, i think i will really hear a difference in the ultra's low end.

a little lower ; a little louder ;)

a little lower ; a little louder ;)

so whats the chances of the two mixing in the same room?

and if they can, how would you configure the two apart?

i could set the rw-12d for punch which would push the higher 60-80hz stronger. and set the pb13-u for 15hz config and set the XO for 60hz

i dunno.... just thinking outloud.

so whats the chances of the two mixing in the same room?

and if they can, how would you configure the two apart?

i could set the rw-12d for punch which would push the higher 60-80hz stronger. and set the pb13-u for 15hz config and set the XO for 60hz

i dunno.... just thinking outloud.

zero. :)

the ultra doesn't need more punch ;) or more specifically, you'd be wasting the SQ of the Ultra if you made it play just the low frequencies.

you can use the other sub for another setup :)

I'm ready to pull the trigger on a pb13u,however a chance for a new, old stock B&W asw850 (replaced by the asw855) for a similar price is available.
The b&w is close in size sporting a 15in. driver and a 1000watt class D amp.

Anyone care to comment on this one?

I'm ready to pull the trigger on a pb13u,however a chance for a new, old stock B&W asw850 (replaced by the asw855) for a similar price is available.
The b&w is close in size sporting a 15in. driver and a 1000watt class D amp.

Anyone care to comment on this one?

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=14721&start=0&rid=14&SQ=1126361620

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=24667&start=0&rid=14&SQ=1216241881

the 850 is actually a pretty good sub based on the measurements ...
it's just that the ultra13 is better :) (in terms of low end output, linear FR and less distortion)

Thanks ribbit. Actually I've seen those charts before in my quest for a comparison.It would be nice to actually hear the two in my system that I'm putting together.
The ultimate extension of ported sub vs. a closed design would seem to have an advantage in that area.
I've read a review in a British online audio video publication that rated the asw850 very high back in 2004 with the Velo dd18 garnishing top honors as well. Naturally the pb13u is a current design which seems to rank in the top three of any sub regardless of price as I see it.

Thanks ribbit. Actually I've seen those charts before in my quest for a comparison.It would be nice to actually hear the two in my system that I'm putting together.
The ultimate extension of ported sub vs. a closed design would seem to have an advantage in that area.
I've read a review in a British online audio video publication that rated the asw850 very high back in 2004 with the Velo dd18 garnishing top honors as well. Naturally the pb13u is a current design which seems to rank in the top three of any sub regardless of price as I see it.

i do have the DD18 and the pb13u :) i'd pick a single PB13U anyday over the DD18 - and that's at less than half the cost.

i do have the DD18 and the pb13u :) i'd pick a single PB13U anyday over the Ultra - and that's at less than half the cost.

You mean the DD18?:)

You mean the DD18?:)

yes :D

zero. :)

the ultra doesn't need more punch ;) or more specifically, you'd be wasting the SQ of the Ultra if you made it play just the low frequencies.

you can use the other sub for another setup :)

looks like it will be heading into my little office to get hooked up to my pc... hehe

Like to play some Counter Strike or Rainbow Six :D

"fire in the hole"

Hey guys looking for a little advice on a sub. I bought an eD A2-300, long story short, I was told I am over driving the sub. I was listening to what I thought were decent levels not too loud. In some Dark Knight scenes I get a loud thud, god awful sound. eD thought it might be Audssey, we trouble-shooted some stuff with Audssey off and trim level turned down but we still got the loud thud... In any case I will probably ship the sub back to eD ($50 lesson learned). A couple of co-workers have SVS subs and love them. One has the PB10 and the other has the PB12. They both love the sub. My question is compared to the A2-300 would I possibly have the same problem? Are SVS subs considerably better built, any sort of protection against clipping I think eD said it was clipping, etc? I have a 12x14 room or so, 8ft ceilings but one side is open to a staircase and another smaller loft, its kind of an open area... The receiver is an Onkyo 806. Given this, would the PB12 provide enough output? Thought and comments appreciated.
I have a similar room and the PB12 (driven by an Onkyo 606) and have played the Dark Knight several times in the last week at fairly high levels. The bass was very powerful and undistorted. The hospital scene audio was very particularly impressive.

So, yes, the PB12 has plenty of output for me (and probably you).

How do you calibrate the MBM-12 with my other sub? Do you calibrate the same levels with an SPL meter? I've got my sub X'ed over at 50hz and the MBM at 90hz. What are my (cheap and not difficult) options for integrating a "seemless" effect of both units???

So I pulled the Trigger on the PB13-U this morning. talked to a sales rep Erik K and he said my eta would be this Friday or Monday of next week. So, I won't be sleeping until tuesday.... :eek: :D

this forum has been a real big help in my decision with all of the research and comments. thanks!

got an email from SVS today with tracking info... these guys are on top of it so far.. :)

Hey guys looking for a little advice on a sub. I bought an eD A2-300, long story short, I was told I am over driving the sub. I was listening to what I thought were decent levels not too loud. In some Dark Knight scenes I get a loud thud, god awful sound. eD thought it might be Audssey, we trouble-shooted some stuff with Audssey off and trim level turned down but we still got the loud thud... In any case I will probably ship the sub back to eD ($50 lesson learned). A couple of co-workers have SVS subs and love them. One has the PB10 and the other has the PB12. They both love the sub. My question is compared to the A2-300 would I possibly have the same problem? Are SVS subs considerably better built, any sort of protection against clipping I think eD said it was clipping, etc? I have a 12x14 room or so, 8ft ceilings but one side is open to a staircase and another smaller loft, its kind of an open area... The receiver is an Onkyo 806. Given this, would the PB12 provide enough output? Thought and comments appreciated. I have 2 pb10. If you over drive a single you will hear port noise. But if it's level matched and not running to hot I don't see any problems. Your Ed has it's own amp so I don't understand how it's clipping? Clipping is when it's underpowered. If you are running it too hot it may bottom out and make alot of noise. But I aSSume you tried setting it properly with ED's help and have the same problem? My Pb10's seem unbreakable but they can only do so much. I would get a Pb12 to make sure if you like alot of bass. IMO they are built nice for plane black subs. Svs makes quality stuff and have very good and propmt support. Like alot of ID stores.

I have the new PB12+ on back order hear in Canada which I'm sure will give me enough output for 2800 sq. ft. of air space not including the hallway off to the side leading in to the living rm. 20ft. away. The new pb12+ looks like a pb13u on weight watchers.

Or should I just fork out the extra $400 for the ultra and be done with it?

I have the new PB12+ on back order hear in Canada which I'm sure will give me enough output for 2800 sq. ft. of air space not including the hallway off to the side leading in to the living rm. 20ft. away. The new pb12+ looks like a pb13u on weight watchers.

Or should I just fork out the extra $400 for the ultra and be done with it?

i've never heard the plus - but i've never liked buying non-flagship models. :D

plus, there's no waiting time i bet on the ultra. merry christmas!

Or should I just fork out the extra $400 for the ultra and be done with it?


Yes you should.....:)

I have the new PB12+ on back order hear in Canada which I'm sure will give me enough output for 2800 sq. ft. of air space not including the hallway off to the side leading in to the living rm. 20ft. away. The new pb12+ looks like a pb13u on weight watchers.

Or should I just fork out the extra $400 for the ultra and be done with it?I assume you mean 2800 cubic feet. Better to regret spending more than you wanted to and getting more sub than you need than spending less money and regret not getting enough sub.

If you really mean 2800 cf, the + will be enough sub with headroom.

Thanks for the replies. Yes it is 2800cf. for the family room/kitchen only. A 6 ft. hallway off to the side leading to other parts of the house was not part of the measurements.
This new pb12 plus with a new 12.3in driver and three small ports should be on their webpage.
I just know it, you guys are leading me to the ultra. which is tempting me:rolleyes:

I'm just worried that the Ultra will have my neighbors calling in the bomb squad!:D

Thanks for the feedback, I am not sure clipping is the right term, all I know is it was a loud pop\thud, it was not constant sound, just one loud thud\pop, when looking at the sub it moved 1.5 inches plus, no idea why that scene tried to kill my sub. Keep in mind this occurred after eD tried to help me configure the sub with Audssey off and the trim level down and gain down to a level I did not like. eD concluded I was just looking for more output than the sub offered, oh I remember now, I think the other term he used may have been over driving the sub. I am about software not sound, so the terms are still all new to me.

In any case, SVS recommend the 12-plus since my area is kinda open. 1k is killing the budget and the wife is not on board... I could go with the non plus version but I rather have overkill than under. I am tired of agonizing over it, and even if I order one now, will not get here before x-mas. I am considering waiting till tax time and getting the plus. Where is a damn stilmulus check when u need one :)


I have 2 pb10. If you over drive a single you will hear port noise. But if it's level matched and not running to hot I don't see any problems. Your Ed has it's own amp so I don't understand how it's clipping? Clipping is when it's underpowered. If you are running it too hot it may bottom out and make alot of noise. But I aSSume you tried setting it properly with ED's help and have the same problem? My Pb10's seem unbreakable but they can only do so much. I would get a Pb12 to make sure if you like alot of bass. IMO they are built nice for plane black subs. Svs makes quality stuff and have very good and propmt support. Like alot of ID stores.

Yup cheaper just to save your $$ and have more sub than you need or you will just keep buying buying buying which co$t more.

Thanks for the replies. Yes it is 2800cf. for the family room/kitchen only. A 6 ft. hallway off to the side leading to other parts of the house was not part of the measurements.
This new pb12 plus with a new 12.3in driver and three small ports should be on their webpage.
I just know it, you guys are leading me to the ultra. which is tempting me:rolleyes:

I'm just worried that the Ultra will have my neighbors calling in the bomb squad!:DSonicBoom does show the new PB12+ with the 12.4 driver. For some reason, they still show the old PB12 with the 12.3 driver. either they still have some stock, or they forgot to remove them. The new web site is kind of weird.

If you are in a house, not an apartment, then the Ultra will not bother the neighbors too much. When playing loud, you can hear it outside, but it has to go through another set of walls to get in the next house. So it's not really an issue.

I have the new PB12+ on back order hear in Canada which I'm sure will give me enough output for 2800 sq. ft. of air space not including the hallway off to the side leading in to the living rm. 20ft. away. The new pb12+ looks like a pb13u on weight watchers.

Or should I just fork out the extra $400 for the ultra and be done with it?

Dude, do it right the first time, you will be extatic....PB13 ULTRA!!

Dude, do it right the first time, you will be extatic....PB13 ULTRA!!

Agreed, you'll always be wondering. Take it from me, I upgraded from a PC+ to an PB13 Ultra.

Ok, I'm convinced to go for the pb13u. I've been approved from the wife for a pb12+, but I'll now need a good excuse for the Ultra?:confused:
Any hints are most welcome!:D

Ok, I'm convinced to go for the pb13u. I've been approved from the wife for a pb12+, but I'll now need a good excuse for the Ultra?:confused:
Any hints are most welcome!:D

The best one I know of would be if you got the pb13u it would probably be
the last sub you would need plus after its hooked up and the movie starts it
will generally sell itself.

Ok, I'm convinced to go for the pb13u. I've been approved from the wife for a pb12+, but I'll now need a good excuse for the Ultra?:confused:
Any hints are most welcome!:D

Don't tell her that is the Ultra, pretend it is a plus, and since they look the same from the front, you might get away with it.

Tell her it took her so long to approve the purchase that the change in the exchange rate caused a price increase. But you see, SVS threw in this beautiful full rosenut veneer instead of just panels on the sides, plus a larger speaker and a more powerful amp.

Thanks for the wife approval info guys,I'll have to sleep on this and decide in the morning after I make her some coffee with a shot a rum!

I'll keep you all posted!

Agreed, you'll always be wondering. Take it from me, I upgraded from a PC+ to an PB13 Ultra.

How's the difference, did you do it because of an upgrade itch, or was the PC+ under preforming for your application?

I want the PC+ so I have more than I need but that means going mid-range on my mains... I just do not know if the non-plus version will be enough, I am sending back an under performing sub (A2-300) today, don't want to go that route again. If your going to blow the budget, it should be on your mains correct?

So regarding getting getting Wife approval for a pb13 ultra...

Once you talk them into accepting the size of the thing, how do guys deal with the fact that it so so heavy that I probally won't be able to move it myself.

So regarding getting getting Wife approval for a pb13 ultra...

Once you talk them into accepting the size of the thing, how do guys deal with the fact that it so so heavy that I probally won't be able to move it myself.It slides around fairly easily on hardwood or carpet. Getting it out the box might make you break a sweat, but many of us have done it alone by tipping one end at a time.

It slides around fairly easily on hardwood or carpet. Getting it out the box might make you break a sweat, but many of us have done it alone by tipping one end at a time.

Doesn't it have rubber feet on the bottom that would make it hard to slide on carpet?

It slides around fairly easily on hardwood or carpet. Getting it out the box might make you break a sweat, but many of us have done it alone by tipping one end at a time.

Yeah, Ron is right. Check this out... I was by myself and my HT is in the basement. I unpacked it upstairs, pushed it to the steps, jumped over the sub and got in front of it. Then I just pulled on the sub and braced on the steps and slid it all the way down while I was in front of it.

When I turn up my PB13-Ultra subwoofer to earthshaking levels, my lights dim (to the beat). I don’t remember seeing this as a feature :). I’m guessing this also affects the sound quality. Is there a safe, cheap solution? Can I just change the circuit breaker fuse...would it be safe? Or do I need an UPS? I should note, it’s sharing an outlet with other equipment and I wouldn’t be able to have a dedicated outlet without tearing up walls. Whats best, any thoughts or suggestions?

Doesn't it have rubber feet on the bottom that would make it hard to slide on carpet?

Yes, but it has very "slick" sides!

Just use a piece of cardboard to flip the sub over on its side and slide the sub around on the cardboard. It works very well on carpet!

When I turn up my PB13-Ultra subwoofer to earthshaking levels, my lights dim (to the beat). I don’t remember seeing this as a feature :). I’m guessing this also affects the sound quality. Is there a safe, cheap solution? Can I just change the circuit breaker fuse...would it be safe? Or do I need an UPS? I should note, it’s sharing an outlet with other equipment and I wouldn’t be able to have a dedicated outlet without tearing up walls. Whats best, any thoughts or suggestions?I've been told that when going all out, the Ultra will draw over a kilowatt out of the wall. I believe that's 8 or 9 amps. If you've got other stuff on the circuit you probably should take it off. I've got mine on a single 15 amp circuit shared with a lamp. The rest of my gear is on another.

When I turn up my PB13-Ultra subwoofer to earthshaking levels, my lights dim (to the beat). I don’t remember seeing this as a feature :). I’m guessing this also affects the sound quality. Is there a safe, cheap solution? Can I just change the circuit breaker fuse...would it be safe? Or do I need an UPS? I should note, it’s sharing an outlet with other equipment and I wouldn’t be able to have a dedicated outlet without tearing up walls. Whats best, any thoughts or suggestions?

That should not effect sound quality, it is just taking more current away from the lights. Like the person above me I would suggest that you get the subwoofer its own 15 amp line.

When I turn up my PB13-Ultra subwoofer to earthshaking levels, my lights dim (to the beat). I don’t remember seeing this as a feature :). I’m guessing this also affects the sound quality. Is there a safe, cheap solution? Can I just change the circuit breaker fuse...would it be safe? Or do I need an UPS? I should note, it’s sharing an outlet with other equipment and I wouldn’t be able to have a dedicated outlet without tearing up walls. Whats best, any thoughts or suggestions?

Find a outlet that is on another breaker. You could turn off the breaker that powers your sub now and try other outlets in your house if one works I would try that one. It is possible that there is more than one circuit running to your theater room now.
Simply changing the fuse or breaker for a larger one is dangerous and not recommended due to fire danger.

Doesn't it have rubber feet on the bottom that would make it hard to slide on carpet?

Yes it does and it does not slide on carpet at all, has to be man handled into position.

Pick up a set of furniture sliders. It makes moving the PB13 a breeze. They work everywhere except stairs. I leave them under my PB13 permanently. That way if I have to access the back it's easy to slide out.
https://www.thesimtecstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=3

Find a outlet that is on another breaker. You could turn off the breaker that powers your sub now and try other outlets in your house if one works I would try that one. It is possible that there is more than one circuit running to your theater room now.
Simply changing the fuse or breaker for a larger one is dangerous and not recommended due to fire danger.

Thank you all for your helpful suggestions! The lights that dim are recessed ceiling lights and all the outlets in that room go to the same breaker. Sounds like it’s best to hire an electrician to wire an outlet to its own breaker.

Pick up a set of furniture sliders. It makes moving the PB13 a breeze. They work everywhere except stairs. I leave them under my PB13 permanently. That way if I have to access the back it's easy to slide out.
https://www.thesimtecstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=3

which one of those do you have mike? on each of the 6 feet right? (or just 4)

i tried using one that's about 1.25" diameter with thick felt bottoms and the felts were squashed off + it was a nightmare to put all 6.

I use four. The ones I have have hard plastic bottoms and rubber on the surface that contacts the bottom of the cabinet.

which one of those do you have mike? on each of the 6 feet right? (or just 4)

i tried using one that's about 1.25" diameter with thick felt bottoms and the felts were squashed off + it was a nightmare to put all 6.

I have four HUSKY movers from home depot, one under each foot, and can pusj my dual stacked PB U13 with ease.

I use four. The ones I have have hard plastic bottoms and rubber on the surface that contacts the bottom of the cabinet.

thanks, i see. i did not notice they were for carpet. i have smooth wood floors.

I have four HUSKY movers from home depot, one under each foot, and can pusj my dual stacked PB U13 with ease.

thanks, will look into that one.

Tried to call the dealer here in Canada to upgrade to the ultra today and no answer via the phone. Maybe their having a blizzard in Ontario and could'nt make it to work.
After watching several demoes on utube I'm starting to panic if an ultra will be heard 5 blocks away seeing that my setup is upstairs and not a dedicated room.
Then again, maybe these guys had them cranked!

ordered on tuesday and received it today. excelent service!

the wife's first two comments were its big and ugly... :mad:

I am still tinkering with the freq and adjustments. but so far this thing is a beast. one thing that worried me, within the first 20 minutes of use i looked in the grill and saw a small peice of insulation... must have been loose inside. im guessing a cut off that got left or end of the roll..? everything sounds fine though. let me say this as well.... this is the mose quiet subwoofer i have ever heard. the speaker moves and there is almost no audible sound of mechanical parts moving...

will get some pics and run REW soon.

Done deal! The rosenut pb13u is being shipped on Monday. I sealed the deal with my wife and let her buy some jewellery.

Done deal! The rosenut pb13u is being shipped on Monday. I sealed the deal with my wife and let her buy some jewellery.

It makes me wonder how much SVS does for the jewlery business.:D Maybe they should sell jewelery on the side.

It makes me wonder how much SVS does for the jewlery business.:D Maybe they should sell jewelery on the side.

LOL, that's a great idea! Imagine SVS selling jewelrys

To compensate WAF, we have a selection of beautiful jewels that'll make your loved ones instantly forget about the size of the sub you just bought

I am considering purchasing a PB12-NSD as an upgrade for my current sub in my 7.1 system. The PB12 is vastly superior to my current sub. However, I am still using my old Onkyo SR-602 receiver. Will I notice a difference without upgrading my receiver? Thanks all.

You will certainly notice a difference. The receiver has very little bearing on how the sub will sound.

maybe i should have thought of the jewelry idea....

my wife has found more interest in screaming at the spl meter i ordered with the ultra to see if she can hit 100db... :eek:

any-hoo

i ran the REW and set everything up, so far C weighted and slow meter @ -10.0db on the receiver, and 0.0db on the subwoofer output volume and the amp on the sub @ 1o'clock - i am showing on the meter 112db... is that a bogus reading? test was done using Saving Private Ryan. not a test tone or anything.

Is the spl meter and Avia disc a worthwhile investment rather than letting the advanced mcacc eq setting of my Pioneer sc05 do its thing.

Is the spl meter and Avia disc a worthwhile investment rather than letting the advanced mcacc eq setting of my Pioneer sc05 do its thing.

The SPL meter is always a good idea even if just to verify that the auto-setup did it's job right. You can probably do without the Avia disc and just use the receiver's tone generator.

I am impressed with this SVS support thread and the owners of the PB13-ultra have me ready to pull the trigger on 2 of these. I am hoping that at least one of you can answer my 2 questions to help me decide.

I have a 1st gen HDTV, 73" Mits rptv. The 22" width of the prospective subs would force me to place each one abutting against the tv (replacing 2 M&K subs that are presently spaced ~4" from the tv). The layout of my home theater room is such that the location of 2 subs is not flexible. Neither would be corner loaded.

1) Will my tv be subject to distortion? I know that newer displays do not require magnetic shielding.
2) The 27" depth of the subs would also leave little space to the rear of the subs. Is there a recommended distance from cables and drywall for proper heat dissipation?
Thanks in advance.

I am impressed with this SVS support thread and the owners of the PB13-ultra have me ready to pull the trigger on 2 of these. I am hoping that at least one of you can answer my 2 questions to help me decide.

I have a 1st gen HDTV, 73" Mits rptv. The 22" width of the prospective subs would force me to place each one abutting against the tv (replacing 2 M&K subs that are presently spaced ~4" from the tv). The layout of my home theater room is such that the location of 2 subs is not flexible. Neither would be corner loaded.

1) Will my tv be subject to distortion? I know that newer displays do not require magnetic shielding.
2) The 27" depth of the subs would also leave little space to the rear of the subs. Is there a recommended distance from cables and drywall for proper heat dissipation?
Thanks in advance.

1.: No, very unlikely.
2.: the bash amps run very cool. You'll be fine.

-Robb

+1.

I moved from M&K to SVS and you are in for a total treat!!! :D


Merry Christmas to you--just report back about your experience...

Thanks fellas. Life is too short to live without deep bass. Any personal suggestions for finish? Every color but the oak will go fine. I think my herniated discs are in for a treat getting these up on the second floor.

Thanks fellas. Life is too short to live without deep bass. Any personal suggestions for finish? Every color but the oak will go fine. I think my herniated discs are in for a treat getting these up on the second floor.

Just ordered my in the rosenut finish as I figure it might as well look like furniture. Although the piano black is nice but hard to keep dust free.

The Rosenut finish is gorgeous, enjoy my friend!

Thanks fellas. Life is too short to live without deep bass. Any personal suggestions for finish? Every color but the oak will go fine. I think my herniated discs are in for a treat getting these up on the second floor.


Up until the last minute, I was going to get the rosenut...changed to piano black...it's absolutely amazing looking! Yes, it will show dust but it takes 15 seconds and a microfiber cloth to remedy that...:D

Up until 6 years ago I use to work out. Man, I sure felt it while moving the PB13. It was a tad difficult doing everything by myself...:o

Great minds think alike. Rosenut looks beautiful, piano gloss stunning (but worth an extra $100 per?). It's between these 2. Have you guys seen the PB13 excursion during that infamous Pulse scene here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3kKPBU-v28

Up until the last minute, I was going to get the rosenut...changed to piano black...it's absolutely amazing looking! Yes, it will show dust but it takes 15 seconds and a microfiber cloth to remedy that...:D

Up until 6 years ago I use to work out. Man, I sure felt it while moving the PB13. It was a tad difficult doing everything by myself...:o

same here, i was worried the little rubber feet would get ripped off. so i used a towel and slid it around with it on top of towel.

same here, i was worried the little rubber feet would get ripped off. so i used a towel and slid it around with it on top of towel.

I was fortunate in that I was able to open the box and take out the sub within 6 feet of its location. I just turned the sub on its side and slid it across my thick carpet. Then I had to ease it up onto the great gramma.

Great minds think alike. Rosenut looks beautiful, piano gloss stunning (but worth an extra $100 per?).

Yes, it's worth the extra 100! Just think of it this way...you're saving on the $99 shipping fee...:D:)

Heyyy, planning on purchasing two new 20-39PC Plus's and was wondering if my extra Monster AV600 will be up to the job. Tech support indicated that I should be ok as long as it's rated for 15A (it is), but it just looks wimpy to me. Only the subs will be on this surge protector, nothing else. Thoughts, anyone?

I was fortunate in that I was able to open the box and take out the sub within 6 feet of its location. I just turned the sub on its side and slid it across my thick carpet. Then I had to ease it up onto the great gramma.

Great minds think alike. Rosenut looks beautiful, piano gloss stunning (but worth an extra $100 per?).

Yes, it's worth the extra 100! Just think of it this way...you're saving on the $99 shipping fee...:D:)
Tunacious, I'm tending to agree with you about the piano black finish. However, do you know how easily it scratches (even fine scratches). I still have a dog, a cat, and 2 kids barging into my HT. Perhaps the rosenut would hold up better in this regard similar to furniture? Thanks.

Heyyy, planning on purchasing two new 20-39PC Plus's and was wondering if my extra Monster AV600 will be up to the job. Tech support indicated that I should be ok as long as it's rated for 15A (it is), but it just looks wimpy to me. Only the subs will be on this surge protector, nothing else. Thoughts, anyone?

Hey PGH, where are you getting those sub's, local?

Hey PGH, where are you getting those sub's, local?Wondering the same thing. Think he means PC12-Plus.

The Monster should be OK. I would try to find different circuits for each sub, but it's hard to do.

Tunacious, I'm tending to agree with you about the piano black finish. However, do you know how easily it scratches (even fine scratches). I still have a dog, a cat, and 2 kids barging into my HT. Perhaps the rosenut would hold up better in this regard similar to furniture? Thanks.


That's a tough call re your kids and pets. I've got a cat and she doesn't bother any of my AV stuff. She's always had one of those scratch posts around the house. My daughter, while growing up, was taught (by me:)) how to act around the AV stuff. She always wanted to watch movies and was interested in learning how to insert the tapes/disks...so I taught her. I had her changing out VHS tapes at around 18 months.:eek: She knew she wasn't to touch anything unless I was around...it worked.

Re the finish, I can't say since I've only had it a week. I'm going to apply some quality car wax that will help protect it. Also, nothing will be going on top of it. I'll dust if off with a microfiber cloth. Don't get me wrong...the rosenut looks great and it was my first choice. I had WAF with the rosenut since it didn't match anything in the room. The black was fine with her though...I guess it's more neutral...don't ask me about color coordination.:rolleyes: If you're in doubt, go with the rosenut.

That's a tough call re your kids and pets. I've got a cat and she doesn't bother any of my AV stuff. She's always had one of those scratch posts around the house. My daughter, while growing up, was taught (by me:)) how to act around the AV stuff. She always wanted to watch movies and was interested in learning how to insert the tapes/disks...so I taught her. I had her changing out VHS tapes at around 18 months.:eek: She knew she wasn't to touch anything unless I was around...it worked.

Re the finish, I can't say since I've only had it a week. I'm going to apply some quality car wax that will help protect it. Also, nothing will be going on top of it. I'll dust if off with a microfiber cloth. Don't get me wrong...the rosenut looks great and it was my first choice. I had WAF with the rosenut since it didn't match anything in the room. The black was fine with her though...I guess it's more neutral...don't ask me about color coordination.:rolleyes: If you're in doubt, go with the rosenut.
Good thoughts. You helped me pull the trigger. Ordered 2 piano black units and I'll try to be a better parent and pet owner!

Yep, sorry, I keep forgetting they changed the model name to PC12-Plus.

I have the 20-39pc+ with the older woofer. Is the 12.3 woofer upgrade worth it? I dont push my sub real hard as i live in a townhouse so cant crank it to often. Any feedback is appreciated.

Mike

I had the original 12.2 driver when I bought my 20-39 + from the forums. When I ordered the new 12.3 upgrade, I was like WTF? The new 12.3 driver is a beast compared to the silver 12.2 driver. It's worth the change.

On the flipside, I purchased a new PC12 + to go along with my 20-39 +, they sent me the 12.4 driver separate, comparing the 12.4 to the 12.3 is another huge change, it just keeps getting better and better.

12.2 driver http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e387/thebulmerfamily2003/DSC00848.jpg

12.3 driver http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e387/thebulmerfamily2003/DSC00843.jpg

12.3 driver side view http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e387/thebulmerfamily2003/DSC00841.jpg

12.4 Driver, picture taken from another forum member http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e387/thebulmerfamily2003/IMG_0672.jpg

So im assuming you heard a difference with the new driver?

Mike

Is that a crack in the lower magnet in the 12.3 side view, or just a line.

That does look like a crack, not that I can imagine it would affect the performance anyway though?


Tim

"not that I can imagine it would affect the performance anyway though"

I can't answer that but do know that if a magnet has a crack in it that has to effect the magnetic field it is responsible to generate. Does that then equal "affect performance"? Me not know.

Jim

That does look like a crack, not that I can imagine it would affect the performance anyway though?


TimI don't know how speaker magnets are magnetized. Do they just have two poles, left side to right side, or do they have multiple poles along the circumference? Either way, a crack will create two new poles and there will be some leakage. Is this enough to effect performance, maybe.

Ferrite material is very brittle. It is just compressed powder. There are no long fibers to give it strength. Once you have a crack and subject it to the kind of vibration the speaker produces, it may not be long before it cracks on the other side. If the magnets are not glued into place, that core could fall off.

So, if that is a crack, I would contact SVS about a replacement if still under warranty.

I will have to pull the sub out and look again, never noticed the crack until I saw the pictures on the thread. I just got the sub about two weeks ago, still waiting on the replacement amp for the 20-39 +, good catch. I am going be depressed if it is a crack, I have been waiting to get this sub up and running for almost 3 months now.

Luckily I have the PC12 + running to keep me entertained.

Update. I pulled out the sub and re-checked. It looks like a crack but it is actually just a scratch. I took pictures so that you can see that the line doesn't go through the material.

This is a good thing, I didn't want the hassle of having to send it back. The sub was packaged very well and the box was in great shape.

I am hoping the QA department at SVS felt it was good to go visually and sound before sending it out the door.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e387/thebulmerfamily2003/DSC00939.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e387/thebulmerfamily2003/DSC00941.jpg

Update. I pulled out the sub and re-checked. It looks like a crack but it is actually just a scratch. I took pictures so that you can see that the line doesn't go through the material.

This is a good thing, I didn't want the hassle of having to send it back. The sub was packaged very well and the box was in great shape.

I am hoping the QA department at SVS felt it was good to go visually and sound before sending it out the door.The scratch can still cause a magnetic corona that will attract metallic objects to the sub. Do not sit between your sub and your cutlery.:)

Has anyone done a comparison between a PC12-Plus and a PC13-Ultra? Is the Ultra that much better in a 2300 c/ft room.

Has anyone done a comparison between a PC12-Plus and a PC13-Ultra? Is the Ultra that much better in a 2300 c/ft room.

At only $400 more I wouldn't think twice about it. Get the Ultra. Take it from us who have upgraded their SVS subs...

I have a 7 speaker setup using Aperion speakers 2 towers, center 6Ts and 6C, along with 4 surrounds. I kept the 12"sub from a previous setup a klipsch. I have been looking real hard at the svs 12 ultra, the tube subwoofer. I listen 70 percent HT and 30 music. I know nothing about subs will this do the trick, for music listening and ht? Also been looking at ed, hsu-but leaning toward the sv subs.

I have a 7 speaker setup using Aperion speakers 2 towers, center 6Ts and 6C, along with 4 surrounds. I kept the 12"sub from a previous setup a klipsch. I have been looking real hard at the svs 12 ultra, the tube subwoofer. I listen 70 percent HT and 30 music. I know nothing about subs will this do the trick, for music listening and ht? Also been looking at ed, hsu-but leaning toward the sv subs.Quick answer, yes. It is terrific for music and HT.

browninggold, the Ultra-13 will best the TV-12 Ultra in every way. I would not hesitate on going for the Ultra-13. I went from a PC-Ultra (12") to the PB13-Ultra and it was not a subtle change for me. In retrospect, the TV-12 Driver is muddy and boomy (comparatively speaking, of course). The musical articulation of the Ultra-13 is something to behold.

Yeah I will get the svs ultra 13 cylinder-hearing a lot of good response for this sub. Just wanted to make sure and get extra positive feedback. 1300.00 dollars is a good chunk of cash, but I want to make my music and movie experience better. Which this sub should compared to my current klipsch sub. Thanks again

Any thoughts on buying one PC13 Ultra or buying two PC12/Plus? I'm leaning toward the two as two of the PC13's would be to expensive.

Thanks

I just went with 2 Pluses, so I'd be curious too

browninggold, the Ultra-13 will best the TV-12 Ultra in every way. I would not hesitate on going for the Ultra-13. I went from a PC-Ultra (12") to the PB13-Ultra and it was not a subtle change for me. In retrospect, the TV-12 Driver is muddy and boomy (comparatively speaking, of course). The musical articulation of the Ultra-13 is something to behold.

Ditto, ditto and ditto.


Tim

Ditto, ditto and ditto.


Tim

+1 for me too.

Not a subtle difference between my old pb12+/2 and the 13u! I'm hitting over 110dB+ peaks routinely from 14-15' away at my LP.

I'm extremely happy with this monster...

Hello;
After reading through much of this forum and checking out the SVS website, I've decided to order one gloss black PB13 Ultra. I will be replacing a DT SuperCube 1 with it.

My setup includes a Pioneer Kuro 151 Elite, Denon 3800 Blu Ray player, Denon 3808ci AVR, and DirecTV HR-20 DVR/Receiver. I have a set of 13 year old Def Tech BP2000 towers, CLR2000 center, and BPX surrounds, which I still love.

I calibrate my system with Audyssey via the 3808, which I'm hoping should make setting the Ultra up a bit easier. My room is 22x24x8 with a slight vault to the ceiling, so around 4800 cubic feet.

Any tips or other info I should know regarding setup, etc.?

Any tips or other info I should know regarding setup, etc.?

It sounds like you're on the right track. Setting up the Ultra is really no different from any other sub. You can fine tune with the variable phase and the single band EQ, but since you have the 3808, I'd let Audyssey handle all that.

-Robb

I'm in the market for a 25-31CS+...it can be 12.2 or 12.3...makes no difference to me...anyone looking to part with one?

New Topic - matching a 2 year old PB 12 Plus?

Hello! Recently built a new home with dedicated HT. I have an SVS PB12 Plus to accompany my Klipsh RF3, RC3 and in-wall surrounds. Powered with a Denon 2807 AVR. Every once in a while, during a heavy action sequence the sub will "bottom out" (last time was X-men final stand? when Dr. Grey levitates then drops the house). I sent a note to SVS support who told me that most likely, the solution is to either turn it down (NO WAY!) or buy a second sub. The system is calibrated to 80 decibals and we normally watch movies at about that level. Room is 15' wide by 25' deep.

So - first - are these really the only choices?
Then - I don't think they make my version of the sub anymore. Can it be paired with a current model? No way I can afford to buy 2 new ones (wife will kill me for adding the second one!).

Thanks for your thoughts!

New Topic - matching a 2 year old PB 12 Plus?

Hello! Recently built a new home with dedicated HT. I have an SVS PB12 Plus to accompany my Klipsh RF3, RC3 and in-wall surrounds. Powered with a Denon 2807 AVR. Every once in a while, during a heavy action sequence the sub will "bottom out" (last time was X-men final stand? when Dr. Grey levitates then drops the house). I sent a note to SVS support who told me that most likely, the solution is to either turn it down (NO WAY!) or buy a second sub. The system is calibrated to 60 decibals and we normally watch movies at about that level. Room is 15' wide by 25' deep.

So - first - are these really the only choices?
Then - I don't think they make my version of the sub anymore. Can it be paired with a current model? No way I can afford to buy 2 new ones (wife will kill me for adding the second one!).

Thanks for your thoughts!

In my opinion, though the match will not be perfect, you will be able to successfully pair an older PB12 with a new one. Another option would be to seek out used older PB12 Plus.

OK, got a problem, just moved one 20-39 (FR) from one room and swapped it out for the other 20-39 (LR). Both subs worked well in each original room. Now the LR sub in its new room sound almost dead, the other FR sub sounded great and had to keep gain at O'Clock, but this sub can hardly be heard and i must turn the gain up to 1'Oclock and you can hardly hear it. I've checked all connections and recal'ed system but i still need to crank the gain. The sub is past its warranty so am i screwed or is there something i f'ed up during the swap. another thing i did notice that when I turn up the gain durning play back I can hear something but it seems like there is a mute button on., please help.

Hi Plex,

Please give us a shout at techsupport@svsound.com and we'll try and track down what happened between rooms. :)

So regarding getting getting Wife approval for a pb13 ultra...

Once you talk them into accepting the size of the thing, how do guys deal with the fact that it so so heavy that I probally won't be able to move it myself.

I don't know how any married guy with a wife that is halfway concerned about decor "sells" this sub. I'd love to experience this sub myself, but my God - this thing is huge. I'm currently using SVS's little SB12-Plus, and its actually quite fun since I have it placed directly behind my couch. On the appropriate movie, you can definitely "feel" the couch vibrate in a very pleasant sort of fashion. But I can only but wonder what a PB13 Ultra would feel/sound like.

But what blows my mind is that a PC13 U is more than four times the size (volume) of a SB12-Plus. I doubt its more than 4 times as good.

Those pics at SVS don't really do justice in terms of what the mathematics shows is their size difference. I imagine if they had a pic up to scale comparing the size of all those subs, the PC13U would sell a lot less and the SB12-Plus would sell a lot more. This is to say nothing of the weight differences.

But what blows my mind is that a PC13 U is more than four times the size (volume) of a SB12-Plus. I doubt its more than 4 times as good.

errr. don't be too sure. :D

the difference is more apparent below 25hz - and 4x better isn't actually that far off afaik.

But what blows my mind is that a PC13 U is more than four times the size (volume) of a SB12-Plus. I doubt its more than 4 times as good.



I'm not sure how one would begin to measure "mutiples of goodness" when comparing one sub to another, but I was trying to explain the difference between an SB12 and a 13Ultra to another forum member. At the time, I estimated that it takes about three SB12's to match a 13Ultra as far as overall bass output. Over 50hz, it would take about two SB12's. Below 30hz, It's hard to even estimate how many SB12 you would need to match the Ultra. Depending on how important deep bass is to you, 4x is not that far off.

I don't think that forum member (sourbeef) really believed me until he actually got his PC13. ;)

I dunno what I'm going to do about my WAF. I think the way to "play" the situation with my wife is just to order one of these mammoths and then just deal with the ensuing fight, hoping I don't have to send it back. She would freak out if I got the PC13 Ultra though. I might have to find a compromise between those two extremes, be it with SVS or someone else.

For us married guys, I wish it'd become commonplace for sub companies to report volumes so I could put the calculator away.

Azanon,

Well, if you need a lettle help. :)
First, get rid of the box before she gets home. If the PC is boxed anything like the PB's box, then you've got way more box than actual sub. You can rent the box out as an apartment in some countries.
Second, reherse the phrase "honey, you just can't cheat physics" (thank you Ed M).
Third, buy her jewlery.
Forth, get a second job to pay off number 3.

I also was looking at the PC 13Ultra, decided to get the PB13 Ultra...wife just looked at it and said "oh the sub came today". Just order and put it in your HT, it really isn't all that bad.....it is well worth it once you have it dialed in and watching movies and listening to music. Your wife will be happy if she enjoys the HT.

I dunno what I'm going to do about my WAF. I think the way to "play" the situation with my wife is just to order one of these mammoths and then just deal with the ensuing fight, hoping I don't have to send it back. She would freak out if I got the PC13 Ultra though. I might have to find a compromise between those two extremes, be it with SVS or someone else.

For us married guys, I wish it'd become commonplace for sub companies to report volumes so I could put the calculator away.

While the PB13 is kind of big, it happens to be a perfect size and height for an end table. The wood finishes look great. I had a piece of glass made to fit the top and I keep it next to the couch. It's surprisingly unobtrusive.

Which would be better, a single PB13 Ultra or Dual passive 16-46 CS Cylinder subs?

I have the amplification needed and could use the crossover that's built into my receiver to use the passive subs.

I could put one in each front corner or even put one in each back corner nearfield if I wanted to.

My room is 15x20x8 sealed.

Which would be better, a single PB13 Ultra or Dual passive 16-46 CS Cylinder subs?

I have the amplification needed and could use the crossover that's built into my receiver to use the passive subs.

I could put one in each front corner or even put one in each back corner nearfield if I wanted to.

My room is 15x20x8 sealed.

The PB13 will be better in every way. It will have more output, much better sound quality, and better looks.

Anyone order a PB12-NSD recently? I'm thinking of pulling the trigger and noticed this recent picture (http://images.blu-ray.com/htgallery/4319.jpg) on another forum. Did they change the cone? Looks really good if so! :)

The new cone cone now resembles the cone from the 12.3-Plus driver.

awesome thanks. Looks much better IMO.

Anyone order a PB12-NSD recently? I'm thinking of pulling the trigger and noticed this recent picture (http://images.blu-ray.com/htgallery/4319.jpg) on another forum. Did they change the cone? Looks really good if so! :)
I picked up a PB12-NSD about a month ago and it came with that cone. From looking at the PC12-NSD pics it appears to be the same woofer as that. Maybe SVS can confirm the switch.

Finally...I have joined the ranks as an SVS owner: pc12-nsd. When I went to pick it up yesterday from UPS they had THREE MORE in the back! and from their description is sounds like at least one is an Ultra. Makes me a little curious who else here in the SLC area bought theirs the same time I did..

Anyway, so I do wonder if there is really any true "break in" for speakers. I have read where professionals claim their is not as during the manufacturing process/QC the break in process would occur there if it was going to occur at all.
I do feel that after a few hours last night my sub did sound better/louder...so I wonder if it is actually ME who was breaking in my ears or if the sub actually did increase it's performance after time had past.
It was great not having my sub bottom out during LOST! that alone pretty much eliminated any WAF hesitations once she saw the beast (and it's the little guy!, wait till she gets to see the PB-12+ when we get our dedicated HT done) in it's new home.
Next week we get our new tv (and hopefully receiver--come on Tax Return!) in time for her "girls" movie night at our place.

Seriously....no one has had anything to say in the past week?!

Alright, well I will say that I am very pleased with my sub. We did receive our new 67" DLP and I must say "she" did not feel that the size of the new tv made the new Sub look any smaller.
I still can't wait to get my new AVR- and really kick everything into high gear!

Also, just a mention to anyone from SVS: the CD manual that came with the sub still refers to the old PC-12 NSD model. My main concern while reading everything was the 25hz low where as the website states down to 17hz...but seeing the size dimensions helped me feel more confident that I was reading 'old' specs.
I'm still curious who got the 3 subs here in the SLC area too...is it someone who uses this forum?? Which ones did they get?....

Keep up the great work SVS I will tolerate superior bass over updated spec sheets any day (year?)

I picked up a PB12-NSD about a month ago and it came with that cone. From looking at the PC12-NSD pics it appears to be the same woofer as that. Maybe SVS can confirm the switch.

Verified by SVS via email, the PB12-NSD is shipping with the NSD-AL woofer just like the PC12-NSD.

Verified by SVS via email, the PB12-NSD is shipping with the NSD-AL woofer just like the PC12-NSD.

Good to hear! uh-oh, what if I should have gotten the box then??

Time for Dual SVS Subs
I bought a PC Ultra cylinder sub 4 years ago from SVS and now it's time to buy another. I have read all the great reviews on the PC13 Ultra but it stands 6 inches taller than the PC12+. The PC12+ will be about the same height as the PC Ultra that I already have. I have a big room - 34' x 17'.

Would the PC13 Ultra dominate the subs and would I even notice the old SVS? Or should I get the PC+ to have to equal subs that look similar? It's hard not to go for the Ultra but not sure if it will be best fit. Thanks.

This thread is killing me. I have perfected my video part of the AV portion but have been infected by the Audio bug as well. I'm still very new to all of this but in my learning and searching I had picked out the PB13-U for what I wanted to get. I actually want to get 2 and run dual subs. I had originally planned on doing this next spring but I spend every day on this forum and everytime I come to this thread and read it just makes me salivate when I read all the positive uplifting comments about the performance of these subs.

As for size I have plenty of space and even though size isn't always directly related to performance I actually like the fact that they are big subs. That is probably immature and dumb but honestly no matter how good some little sub was, I want something with some size so when friends come over they go "damn that is a big sub" Then when I crank up the system I can really floor them.

but I'm getting a PB-12NSD so I won't be sad for long :).

I just moved into a new house and the cylinder doesn't fit into the room except in the back where I need to put other stuff. I need a sub that go up front and be under my screen. I almost jumped ship for the Outlaw deal they have going on but in the end I really wanted the SVS and decided paying a little more for what I really wanted was worth it. Gotta go place my SVS order and post an ad for the 16-46PCi!

It appears that the PC12-Plus (http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pc12_plus.cfm) is in back order. It must be one of their more popular products.

Edit: I noticed that there is an "Official SVS Ultra 13" thread. How come there isn't one for the Plus series?

It appears that the PC12-Plus (http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pc12_plus.cfm) is in back order. It must be one of their more popular products.

Edit: I noticed that there is an "Official SVS Ultra 13" thread. How come there isn't one for the Plus series?None of these are 'official' forum threads except the Official Velodyne Support thread. The rest of the threads are started by members with the title of 'official'. If you want a thread dedicated to the PB12+, start one. It's not really needed though. Good luck keeping it on topic.:)

Hi, I'm a noob here and was wondering what people think about the PB12-NSD. I'm upgrading from a 125watt Jensen down firing, (boom box) they call it, lol. I'm a 70% music, and 30% movie, but that will change after I get the sub, 60-40. We got Netflix. And A PS3 for Blu-rays. My AVR is a new pioneer VSX 1017TXV-K set to 6ohm with all my speakers being Cerwin Vega, AT-15s in front, VE-12 sides and CLS series center and surround backs. Any comments on the Sub? Thank's..

Finally...I have joined the ranks as an SVS owner: pc12-nsd. When I went to pick it up yesterday from UPS they had THREE MORE in the back! and from their description is sounds like at least one is an Ultra. Makes me a little curious who else here in the SLC area bought theirs the same time I did..

Anyway, so I do wonder if there is really any true "break in" for speakers. I have read where professionals claim their is not as during the manufacturing process/QC the break in process would occur there if it was going to occur at all.
I do feel that after a few hours last night my sub did sound better/louder...so I wonder if it is actually ME who was breaking in my ears or if the sub actually did increase it's performance after time had past.
It was great not having my sub bottom out during LOST! that alone pretty much eliminated any WAF hesitations once she saw the beast (and it's the little guy!, wait till she gets to see the PB-12+ when we get our dedicated HT done) in it's new home.
Next week we get our new tv (and hopefully receiver--come on Tax Return!) in time for her "girls" movie night at our place.

According to SVS there is no break in time.

OK, got a problem, just moved one 20-39 (FR) from one room and swapped it out for the other 20-39 (LR). Both subs worked well in each original room. Now the LR sub in its new room sound almost dead, the other FR sub sounded great and had to keep gain at O'Clock, but this sub can hardly be heard and i must turn the gain up to 1'Oclock and you can hardly hear it. I've checked all connections and recal'ed system but i still need to crank the gain. The sub is past its warranty so am i screwed or is there something i f'ed up during the swap. another thing i did notice that when I turn up the gain durning play back I can hear something but it seems like there is a mute button on., please help.

Did you rerun Audyssey? I had the same problem when I replaced my super cube 3 with a PB10. Once I reran it, it worked great!

OK, got a problem, just moved one 20-39 (FR) from one room and swapped it out for the other 20-39 (LR). Both subs worked well in each original room. Now the LR sub in its new room sound almost dead, the other FR sub sounded great and had to keep gain at O'Clock, but this sub can hardly be heard and i must turn the gain up to 1'Oclock and you can hardly hear it. I've checked all connections and recal'ed system but i still need to crank the gain. The sub is past its warranty so am i screwed or is there something i f'ed up during the swap. another thing i did notice that when I turn up the gain during play back I can hear something but it seems like there is a mute button on., please help.Check both subs crossovers. Make sure you didn't accidentally turn one all the way down.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3446/3254315798_2d1f6e1ab1_b.jpg
well i received my pb13s today but one of them arrived DOA i get a green light but no sound from it. now i wait for customer help :(
i posted this on the official pb13 thread and figured i would add it to the Support thread.

Alazay, sorry to hear about the problems with one of your new baby's. That is never fun. I see you got a green light, have you verified the lead cable is sending/receiving a signal? Simple I know but I have had cables come loose from the splitter, EQ or processor when moving around new equipment.

SVS should get you straightened out, they are pretty wonderful with their customer support.

that makes total sense to me. but i dont want to touch anything till i hear from svs.
id rather have them send me a new one you know..

If there is a problem with the Sub then they should take care of you as long as you don't put an axe through it or something else ill-conceived....however a very simple test if you are connected via RCA ('sub cable') then just unplug the AVR end and touch it with your finger....get noise the sub works...don't get noise- there's your answer.
All you have to do is just plug in power and one end of an RCA to the sub's in and touch the other end.

I did just verify it on mine, which is set to auto and two taps on the end using my finger scared the dogs.

Didn't know if should start a new thread but I thought I would try here. How much would a used SVS PCi 16-46 be worth? No warranty left. Includes original box and manual.

thanks

NEVERMIND: Sub is gone.

Will be a proud owner of the PB10-NSD on tuesday.I cant wait.By the way is there an official thread for the PB10-NSD?

but did anyone try to hide 16-46 PC Plus? I had this 4 years ago to be placed in my family room setup, but now I moved to a house with a designated HT room, and I find myself very much challenged to hide all the speakers, especially this SVS. Currently in the design stage to build a front stage with some side columns for speakers. The room is roughly one car garage size, 13'x23'

I've been searching anyone has hid this monster, but not able to find any so far. I've been thinking to place this in an enclosure in the side corder of the front stage just big enough, maybe 23"x23" with one corder angled so that I can put 110" 178:1 screen. And, close this space with mostly GOM to allow enough air flow. Not sure this setup may downgrade the sub's performance...

Thanks...

but did anyone try to hide 16-46 PC Plus? I had this 4 years ago to be placed in my family room setup, but now I moved to a house with a designated HT room, and I find myself very much challenged to hide all the speakers, especially this SVS. Currently in the design stage to build a front stage with some side columns for speakers. The room is roughly one car garage size, 13'x23'

I've been searching anyone has hid this monster, but not able to find any so far. I've been thinking to place this in an enclosure in the side corder of the front stage just big enough, maybe 23"x23" with one corder angled so that I can put 110" 178:1 screen. And, close this space with mostly GOM to allow enough air flow. Not sure this setup may downgrade the sub's performance...

Thanks...

The subwoofer can also be layed sideways without performance issues (just make sure to leave room for the power cord, controls, and sub cable). Not sure if that helps in your situation, but thought I'd throw it out there.

I am new so sorry if this isn't the right place to post this. But, where could I look for a used SVS - either 25-31 or 20-39? I've checked the usual locations - ebay, craigslist, audiogon, avs classified - but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot out there.

I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Better yet, if anyone is selling one, pls let me know :-)

Thanks.

I am new so sorry if this isn't the right place to post this. But, where could I look for a used SVS - either 25-31 or 20-39? I've checked the usual locations - ebay, craigslist, audiogon, avs classified - but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot out there.

I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Better yet, if anyone is selling one, pls let me know :-)

Thanks.You didn't say if you were looking for a PCi or a Plus. There is a passive 20-39 CS Plus on eBay for $499 which includes a Crown amp and other stuff. Search SVS subwoofers.

There is a PC12-NSD in B stock at SVS. It's only $40 off at $529.

sorry, should have given a bit more detail.

Either PCi or Plus is fine, but given my (cheap) budget, I'd imagine the Plus would be out of my range. I saw a 20-39 PCi on avs classifieds a bit ago for $250. That would be perfect.

I'll check out the ebay listing, though. Thanks.

I just got my PB-13 Ultra earlier this week. I calibrated it last night using the Avia II disc and the Radio Shack sound meter. This is my first time owning a real sub, so I just want to make sure I did it right. It sounds great, but again, I'm not sure if it's supposed to sound even better. I'd hate to go years before finding out that I've been doing it all wrong. :)

First, here's my audio setup:
Sub - SVS PB-13 Ultra (placed along front wall about 2-3 feet from corner with left wall - right next to my left front speaker)
AVR - Denon 4308ci
Fronts - Paradigm Titan Monitors
Center - Paradigm Monitor CC-390
Surrounds - Paradigm ADP-390
Sources: Mostly Xbox 360 and PS3 for both movies and games

Here were my steps:
1. Set the subwoofer gain to 1/4 of the way up
2. Set crossover on the Denon at 80 Hz
3. Set overall volume on Denon to -20dB
4. Set LFE channel volume on Denon to about -4db (about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom)
5. Set the sound meter to 70 dB
6. Played the test tones and adjusted the relative volumes on the 5 speakers so they were all 70 dB
7. Adjusted the gain on the sub so that the volume was around 72 dB

Is that all there is to it? If so, it seems easier than I was originally expecting it to be. Or am I missing something? I watched some scenes from Live Free or Die Hard on Blu-Ray (b/c it's on that list of top movies with BASS), and everything sounded fantastic. I didn't feel the room shake, however, and wouldn't say that I felt any of the bass in my gut. I think it's great as is, but just want to make sure I didn't leave out some major step.

Thanks!

I just got my PB-13 Ultra earlier this week. I calibrated it last night using the Avia II disc and the Radio Shack sound meter. This is my first time owning a real sub, so I just want to make sure I did it right. It sounds great, but again, I'm not sure if it's supposed to sound even better. I'd hate to go years before finding out that I've been doing it all wrong. :)

First, here's my audio setup:
Sub - SVS PB-13 Ultra (placed along front wall about 2-3 feet from corner with left wall - right next to my left front speaker)
AVR - Denon 4308ci
Fronts - Paradigm Titan Monitors
Center - Paradigm Monitor CC-390
Surrounds - Paradigm ADP-390
Sources: Mostly Xbox 360 and PS3 for both movies and games

Here were my steps:
1. Set the subwoofer gain to 1/4 of the way up
2. Set crossover on the Denon at 80 Hz
3. Set overall volume on Denon to -20dB
4. Set LFE channel volume on Denon to about -4db (about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom)
5. Set the sound meter to 70 dB
6. Played the test tones and adjusted the relative volumes on the 5 speakers so they were all 70 dB
7. Adjusted the gain on the sub so that the volume was around 72 dB

Is that all there is to it? If so, it seems easier than I was originally expecting it to be. Or am I missing something? I watched some scenes from Live Free or Die Hard on Blu-Ray (b/c it's on that list of top movies with BASS), and everything sounded fantastic. I didn't feel the room shake, however, and wouldn't say that I felt any of the bass in my gut. I think it's great as is, but just want to make sure I didn't leave out some major step.

Thanks!

To really tune things in I suggest you run Audyssey on your Denon. It really made a difference in my sound. There's a dedicated Audyssey thread here at AVS that has a includes setup guide.

To really tune things in I suggest you run Audyssey on your Denon. It really made a difference in my sound. There's a dedicated Audyssey thread here at AVS that has a includes setup guide.

Better than calibrating myself? I actually just posted a question to the Audyseey thread asking which was considered better -- calibrating each channel individually or just using Audyseey -- because the settings were significantly different. The Audyseey settings had all of my speakers set to approximately neutral +/- 1-2dB. When I calibrated using the above procedure, I had to crank up my surrounds significantly - about +9 dB. I so far like the new sound, but I'm not sure if it's just because it's louder (studies have shown that people shopping for speakers will think one speaker sounds better than another if it's just a little louder) or if it's because of the addition of the sub. :) Part of the reason I was asking the above question was to confirm that I calibrated it correctly, since my settings were so different from Audyseey's.

Incidentally I just got the following reply from the Audyseey thread:

1. Audyssey does a whole lot more than balancing your speakers levels.

2. Audyssey is more accurate than using the test tones + a radio shack SPL meter

3. the rat shack SPL meter is notoriously poor at setting subwoofer level

again, preference vs. reference. You may like the way it sounds on your setup but you aren't getting a system that is calibrated to a REFERENCE standard. Plus, you get no benefit from Audyssey's EQ filters, time alignment, correcting the phase on the sub, etc.

dla26, besides trying out the Audessey, make sure certain things are set right on the back of the PB13.
Crossover:bypassed
PEQ level:Min (all the way counter-clockwise)
RoomComp: I'd start with bypass, then go to large, med, or small if the deep bass sounds too heavy.
Make sure the tuning with the port plugs matches the Filter knob.

Incidentally I just got the following reply from the Audyseey thread:

batpig is absolutely right. Audyssey is so much more then setting speaker levels. Read the how-to in the thread and try it again.

Will be a proud owner of the PB10-NSD on tuesday.I cant wait.By the way is there an official thread for the PB10-NSD?
Not that I know of, just the SVS one. Congrats on your purchase!

I just got my PB-13 Ultra earlier this week. I calibrated it last night using the Avia II disc and the Radio Shack sound meter. This is my first time owning a real sub, so I just want to make sure I did it right. It sounds great, but again, I'm not sure if it's supposed to sound even better. I'd hate to go years before finding out that I've been doing it all wrong. :)

First, here's my audio setup:
Sub - SVS PB-13 Ultra (placed along front wall about 2-3 feet from corner with left wall - right next to my left front speaker)
AVR - Denon 4308ci
Fronts - Paradigm Titan Monitors
Center - Paradigm Monitor CC-390
Surrounds - Paradigm ADP-390
Sources: Mostly Xbox 360 and PS3 for both movies and games

Here were my steps:
1. Set the subwoofer gain to 1/4 of the way up
2. Set crossover on the Denon at 80 Hz
3. Set overall volume on Denon to -20dB
4. Set LFE channel volume on Denon to about -4db (about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom)
5. Set the sound meter to 70 dB
6. Played the test tones and adjusted the relative volumes on the 5 speakers so they were all 70 dB
7. Adjusted the gain on the sub so that the volume was around 72 dB

Is that all there is to it? If so, it seems easier than I was originally expecting it to be. Or am I missing something? I watched some scenes from Live Free or Die Hard on Blu-Ray (b/c it's on that list of top movies with BASS), and everything sounded fantastic. I didn't feel the room shake, however, and wouldn't say that I felt any of the bass in my gut. I think it's great as is, but just want to make sure I didn't leave out some major step.

Thanks!
it could be my room but when i play Live free or Die Hard on my pb12/plus2 the walls shake :)

I just got my PB-13 Ultra earlier this week. I calibrated it last night using the Avia II disc and the Radio Shack sound meter. This is my first time owning a real sub, so I just want to make sure I did it right. It sounds great, but again, I'm not sure if it's supposed to sound even better. I'd hate to go years before finding out that I've been doing it all wrong. :)

First, here's my audio setup:
Sub - SVS PB-13 Ultra (placed along front wall about 2-3 feet from corner with left wall - right next to my left front speaker)
AVR - Denon 4308ci
Fronts - Paradigm Titan Monitors
Center - Paradigm Monitor CC-390
Surrounds - Paradigm ADP-390
Sources: Mostly Xbox 360 and PS3 for both movies and games

Here were my steps:
1. Set the subwoofer gain to 1/4 of the way up
2. Set crossover on the Denon at 80 Hz
3. Set overall volume on Denon to -20dB
4. Set LFE channel volume on Denon to about -4db (about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom)
5. Set the sound meter to 70 dB
6. Played the test tones and adjusted the relative volumes on the 5 speakers so they were all 70 dB
7. Adjusted the gain on the sub so that the volume was around 72 dB

Is that all there is to it? If so, it seems easier than I was originally expecting it to be. Or am I missing something? I watched some scenes from Live Free or Die Hard on Blu-Ray (b/c it's on that list of top movies with BASS), and everything sounded fantastic. I didn't feel the room shake, however, and wouldn't say that I felt any of the bass in my gut. I think it's great as is, but just want to make sure I didn't leave out some major step.

Thanks!

Play a test tone at your crossover frequency and adjust the subwoofer distance in your AVR till the spl peaks.

Hello,

I posted this as a thread, but since I have narrowed it down to the Sunfire HRS-12 and the SVS SB12-Plus. I thought I would get advice from the owners of SVS products.

My biggest question for you guys is sub placement. My 1st choice (and WAF!) is in the cabinet below TV (see attached pics). Second choice is to the left of the cabinet between
the left front speaker. Can I get good sound out of the sub in the cubby hole (see pics and
description in #2 below.)

Will the Auralex Subdude help with being inside or outside the cabinet based on location? The home is 7 years old, no special sound treatment. Basically sheetrock and carpet/tile. Sub will be either placed on carpet (next to the tile) outside of cabinet or on the wood base of the cabinet (see pics)

Has anyone had the Sunfire and the SVS? I guess the biggest issue with the Sunfire in these threads is failure with amps, but I haven’t read about much failure in the HRS models. Maybe they are just too new?

Also, the warranty is better on SVS correct?

Here are the specifics from my past post:

1. Your budget: $350 - $650 (My basis on this I have access to a new Sunfire HRS -12 for $650 total)

2. Size requirements/limits: 15 3/8 wide x 23 3/4 high x 17 1/2 deep. This sub has a specific place in my wood entertainment center. It has a bottom left spot that has wood on all sides except front and rear. The back of the sub will be about 6 inches from the wall behind the TV. The sub is under the left side of my TV. I assume front firing would be best?

3. Room dimensions: 10' high x 15' deep x 20' wide. 7 year old 80% brick home. I sit 12' back from the TV/sub.

4. Primary uses: 90% Movies and TV, 10% Music. The rest of my gear is or will be:
TV - Samsung 67" DLP
AVR - Denon 1909
Blu-ray - Panasonic
Front 3 - Aperion 5T's and a 5C
Rear - Triad Gold Omni Plus- In wall

5. Listening habits: Not really loud. I would say Movie theater levels at maximum.

6. Appearance requirements: Piano Black is first choice to match the Aperions, this is not a must. Any black will be fine, because every thing except the front and top will be basically hidden in cubby. I would need Piano Black if I put outside of the cabinet byAperions.

7. Time frame: Within a month.


Thanks for any opinions and/or advice.
MC

I have a Definitve Tech 2000 and 4 1000's in a 2800 sq ft room. There is a door on the left and two opening doors in the rear. Do you think these speakers will be overpowered by a SVS PB12-PLUS? Do you guys think it would be worth the $ over the NSD? BTW The Plus gloss black matches the Def Tech perfectly. Anyone have a plus in a similar setting? Hows it sound? (I have a Sony HTIB 100 watt Sub now and have had nothing but)

I have a Definitve Tech 2000 and 4 1000's in a 2800 sq ft room. There is a door on the left and two opening doors in the rear. Do you think these speakers will be overpowered by a SVS PB12-PLUS? Do you guys think it would be worth the $ over the NSD? BTW The Plus gloss black matches the Def Tech perfectly. Anyone have a plus in a similar setting? Hows it sound? (I have a Sony HTIB 100 watt Sub now and have had nothing but)

If you can afford the PB12-Plus, go for it. It matches your speakers, will sound great, and offers plenty of depth and power for your room. As long as you calibrate your subwoofer correctly with the rest of your setup, it won't be overpowering anything. It will just have tons of headroom so you can turn up your overall level and the sub won't run out of steam.

That said, the PB12-NSD will be a huge upgrade over your Sony as well. I'm sure you'll be pretty impressed with it as well, considering the sub you're coming from. The NSD line represents a great value. However, it doesn't look as nice as the Plus line and lacks some of the output and extension capabilities of the PB12-Plus.

Good luck.

I have a question guys.Just want to know if i have to do the Audyssey over.

Disable the Low-Pass Filter (LPF) on the subwoofer, if allowed.

1. Disabling the LPF will result in more accurate subwoofer distance measurements.

2. If the LPF cannot be disabled, set it to the highest frequency allowed.

Does the PB10 have a LPF?When i performed Audyssey i left the Phase on 0(because my sub is on the same side as my TV,Front speakers) and the Gain 1/4 the way up i think(on the first line left of the middle).Was this done correct?Is the Gain the LPF?Sub distance came out at 9.5ft.My sub is to the left of my Fronts(monitor 60s) and was listed at 7.0ft away which is correct.I would really appreciate the help,thanks.

I currently have an SVS pb-10 in a 13x13 open living room. My issues are that I am not experiencing the bass this sub is known for. I just watched transporter 3 on blu ray and this movie is know for being bass heavy, but I really didn't even hear that much bass. I do have everything calibrated correctly and setup in the receiver like its supposed to, but for some reason the bass just isn't there. Funny thing is that my father in law has a 5.1 polk audio system that retails for $199 and the subwoofer that came with the system sounds a lot better than what I have that I am almost jealous of his bass. It sounds as if the bass limiter in the sub is constantly on preventing the sub from playing any louder. What could be the problem here? Could the sub be giving out? I've had the sub for a couple years now.

Does lack of bass happened just recently? I have subs much older than that and they are still functional. Has anything changed on your system?

I currently have an SVS pb-10 in a 13x13 open living room. My issues are that I am not experiencing the bass this sub is known for. I just watched transporter 3 on blu ray and this movie is know for being bass heavy, but I really didn't even hear that much bass. I do have everything calibrated correctly and setup in the receiver like its supposed to, but for some reason the bass just isn't there. Funny thing is that my father in law has a 5.1 polk audio system that retails for $199 and the subwoofer that came with the system sounds a lot better than what I have that I am almost jealous of his bass. It sounds as if the bass limiter in the sub is constantly on preventing the sub from playing any louder. What could be the problem here? Could the sub be giving out? I've had the sub for a couple years now.

Have you tried another movie you're familiar with that has great bass since you watched Transporter 3? That way you can verify whether the sub is indeed underperforming or if it is that particular disc.

yea I've tried numerous discs known for bass and some discs have bass and others don't, but never am I wowed for any bass produced.

yea I've tried numerous discs known for bass and some discs have bass and others don't, but never am I wowed for any bass produced.

But you were "wowed" with the sub's performance until recently, correct?

I have the PB10 and Transporter 3 IS Bass heavy.So there is a problem somewhere.You tried turning up the Sub db on the AVR?

I currently have an SVS pb-10 in a 13x13 open living room. My issues are that I am not experiencing the bass this sub is known for. I just watched transporter 3 on blu ray and this movie is know for being bass heavy, but I really didn't even hear that much bass. I do have everything calibrated correctly and setup in the receiver like its supposed to, but for some reason the bass just isn't there. Funny thing is that my father in law has a 5.1 polk audio system that retails for $199 and the subwoofer that came with the system sounds a lot better than what I have that I am almost jealous of his bass. It sounds as if the bass limiter in the sub is constantly on preventing the sub from playing any louder. What could be the problem here? Could the sub be giving out? I've had the sub for a couple years now.

If you don't have the subwoofer level in your AVR set 3 to 5 dbs hotter per spl meter than the other channels, then you need to do so.

Also, you need to check for phase cancellation between your subwoofer and your mains by playing a 80hz test tone and adjusting the subwoofer distance in the AVR till your spl meter peaks out.

and make sure the 'dynamic range control' on your bluray player is on "off" and not "auto"

But you were "wowed" with the sub's performance until recently, correct?

correct. I used to have the sub located in a dedicated room, but recently moved and relocated the system to the living room. I know its normal to feel the impact in a room as it's easier to pressurize, but didn't think it would be that big of a difference to where it feels as if there is no bass.
Also, you need to check for phase cancellation between your subwoofer and your mains by playing a 80hz test tone and adjusting the subwoofer distance in the AVR till your spl meter peaks out.
I did so on a calibration dvd and i get a higher spl when set to 180 degrees so that would be the correct setting, right?
and make sure the 'dynamic range control' on your bluray player is on "off" and not "auto"
i'm using the ps3 as a blu ray player, but i'll double check the settings to make sure nothing has been changed.

thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Yes, double check your PS3. I was going to suggest that as well. For some reason, certain discs can automatically switch DRC to "auto", even when you've had it set to "off". Not sure what causes this, but I believe some people had problem with the Iron Man Blu-ray and other discs as well.

never knew that, I thought that issue was related to certain receivers DRC being triggered by certain discs, not the player itself, but I'll check on that though, thanks.

If you can afford the PB12-Plus, go for it. It matches your speakers, will sound great, and offers plenty of depth and power for your room. As long as you calibrate your subwoofer correctly with the rest of your setup, it won't be overpowering anything. It will just have tons of headroom so you can turn up your overall level and the sub won't run out of steam.

That said, the PB12-NSD will be a huge upgrade over your Sony as well. I'm sure you'll be pretty impressed with it as well, considering the sub you're coming from. The NSD line represents a great value. However, it doesn't look as nice as the Plus line and lacks some of the output and extension capabilities of the PB12-Plus.

Good luck.

Yeah, I think the plus will do a better job in my room setting. Also it will match perfectly with everything else. I'm looking forward to getting one. But I will be waiting on a B stock. If it takes a couple of months, oh well.

New SVS owner here. I just got my new SB12+ yesterday and set it up last night. By "set it up" I mean I stuck it in the corner, plugged it in and ran the Audyssey setup. Wow! For a guy who's never owned a sub before, and has been living with Bose 301 bookshelves for the past 17 years or so, this sub is.... Wow!

The first thing I listened to (since I had it handy) was Finding Nemo and the fish tank tapping scene - I had read about the deep bass in this one. I was blown away by the sound coming from this small box. That 10 seconds or so of film are completely different to me now. I had never heard anything like that. What an eye-opener. Now I can't wait to find out what else I've been missing. (Sorry, I guess I'm not a subwoofer virgin anymore).

It did shake the room just a bit - a room which is large (about 4250 cuft) and very open to both living room and dining room (adding more than 5000 more cuft) - I even had to turn it down. I may have to play with the placement. It's currently in a pretty tight corner, and I think there may be a bit too much corner-load effect. Maybe that particular frequency is being overemphasized (maybe I need some measuring equipment)? Reading the subwoofer threads, I used to worry that I'd be disappointed by the limitations of SB12+ and its small dimensions. Well, I'm certainly no bass-head - but I can't imagine wanting any more bass than this little thing can put out.

For further info, I also replaced the Bose with a DefTech Mythos setup at the same time. The Mythos sound... I don't know... much more clear and detailed than the Bose, as if the Bose were being muffled somehow.

Welcome to real speaker ownership. Bose are good... at marketing (imho).

The DTs are good speakers - nice chioce. The SB12+ is a great little unit that will impress with its depth. It rolls off below 22Hz, but not as steep as a ported box. Plus it maintains control down low. You may not be able to make your eyeballs shake with that little unit, but with its tiny size, optimal placement will be easily had. Congrats and enjoy!

I just ordered a SVS PB12- Plus in Gloss Black to match my Definitive Tech 1000's and 2000 center. Its replacing my Sony HTIB sub in a 2600 cft room. Does anyone have this? I'm so excited to have a good sub. Thanks Ed & Eric for all of the help. I hope it sounds as good as it looks.

BTW...Does this sub jam?

I just ordered a SVS PB12- Plus in Gloss Black to match my Definitive Tech 1000's and 2000 center. Its replacing my Sony HTIB sub in a 2600 cft room. Does anyone have this? I'm so excited to have a good sub. Thanks Ed & Eric for all of the help. I hope it sounds as good as it looks.

BTW...Does this sub jam?

Congratulations in advance. I think you'll be pleased with its performance compared to the Sony HTIB sub you've been using all this time ;). Make sure to post your impressions once you get it.

New SVS owner here. I just got my new SB12+ yesterday and set it up last night. By "set it up" I mean I stuck it in the corner, plugged it in and ran the Audyssey setup. Wow! For a guy who's never owned a sub before, and has been living with Bose 301 bookshelves for the past 17 years or so, this sub is.... Wow!

The first thing I listened to (since I had it handy) was Finding Nemo and the fish tank tapping scene - I had read about the deep bass in this one. I was blown away by the sound coming from this small box. That 10 seconds or so of film are completely different to me now. I had never heard anything like that. What an eye-opener. Now I can't wait to find out what else I've been missing. (Sorry, I guess I'm not a subwoofer virgin anymore).

It did shake the room just a bit - a room which is large (about 4250 cuft) and very open to both living room and dining room (adding more than 5000 more cuft) - I even had to turn it down. I may have to play with the placement. It's currently in a pretty tight corner, and I think there may be a bit too much corner-load effect. Maybe that particular frequency is being overemphasized (maybe I need some measuring equipment)? Reading the subwoofer threads, I used to worry that I'd be disappointed by the limitations of SB12+ and its small dimensions. Well, I'm certainly no bass-head - but I can't imagine wanting any more bass than this little thing can put out.

For further info, I also replaced the Bose with a DefTech Mythos setup at the same time. The Mythos sound... I don't know... much more clear and detailed than the Bose, as if the Bose were being muffled somehow.

Congrats. I've had a PC 12 Plus for a few months and I love it when someone from upstairs comes down and asks me to turn down the subwoofer because "....it feels like an earthquake up in my room."
Check out this thread for great audio.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=918734

Hey guys quick question. Just got the PC12-NSD tonight (it's massive!!!) and calibrated the system with Audyssey. When the test tone got to the sub, it sounds like a knocking sound. Is this normal? It definitely didn't sound like this with my BIC H100. Played a few movies and everything sounded fine, but wanted to make sure.

Hey guys quick question. Just got the PC12-NSD tonight (it's massive!!!) and calibrated the system with Audyssey. When the test tone got to the sub, it sounds like a knocking sound. Is this normal? It definitely didn't sound like this with my BIC H100. Played a few movies and everything sounded fine, but wanted to make sure.

It does sound different from the other speakers, but I'm not sure I would describe it as 'knocking'. More of a thump. Do you have the filter bypassed on the sub? Also, what level was set after Audyssey completed (the trim)?

I just installed my new PB13 Ultra yesterday and I'm impressed. No tuning yet, just plugged in and set level by ear. I watched The Haunting, The Incredible Hulk, and Hellboy II very loud and both my 12" sonosub and the Ultra handled it without any issues. I had my sons, who are both in their late 20s, watch/listen to the scene in Hulk when he gets blasted with the sound cannons, and they were impressed too. I had the volume up so much that *they* thought it was too loud :D -- but the rumble from the cannons was awesome. Eagerly looking forward to getting my EQ1 delivered.

It does sound different from the other speakers, but I'm not sure I would describe it as 'knocking'. More of a thump. Do you have the filter bypassed on the sub? Also, what level was set after Audyssey completed (the trim)?

Yeah hmmm I'm somewhat concerned. My old H100 definitely gave a thump sound during the calibration.

Yeah hmmm I'm somewhat concerned. My old H100 definitely gave a thump sound during the calibration.

Here's a (bad) pic of the setup:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/h220wnzj00/IMG_0101.jpg

Yeah hmmm I'm somewhat concerned. My old H100 definitely gave a thump sound during the calibration.Turn off Audessey and calibrate manually the first time at -10 from reference with a SPL meter. It should read somewhere in the 75db range. If not adjust the AVR trims to 75dbs. The sound should be a low rumble and the needle will jump a bit. There should be no knocking. Leave Audessey off for awhile and play some demos. If the bass sounds right, then run Audessey. If it starts knocking again, then you'll need to find out what your room is doing. Get REW or run test tones manually to get an idea of what your FR looks like. Audessey maybe correcting things better left to placement or treatment solutions.

Yeah hmmm I'm somewhat concerned. My old H100 definitely gave a thump sound during the calibration.

Are you sure you aren't mistaking an actual knock at the door- maybe a neighbor who was a little disappointed they hadn't gotten earthquake insurance?


I have a pretty similar set up to yours (Polk speaker) and the PC-NSD- although my AVR is a Yamaha. When I did my calibration I definitely didn't get any kind of a knock sound.
I must say that the Audyssey calibrations I have heard (I do HT install) have never had a knock sound- but most the homes I go to they don't get subs this.....nice/powerful/able to dig deep, etc.
The Pioneer calibration does seem to have a test that I can kind of describe as a knock-- but I know when listening it didn't seem out of place as all the speakers were sent the same type of sound that just sounded different because of the frequency.

My new PB12- Plus.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131615

Well, first I should say Thank You. To everyone (almost) on this AVS Forum that has recommended SVS subwoofers over and over again. I just received my 2 new PC12-NSD's and set them up last night. WOW!

I had purchased a new DT SuperCubeI within the last 3 months, and, while it sounded good, it just didn't seem to have the reach and extension I'd experienced before with my previous M&K sub. The fit and finish and craftmanship were first class, and God knows the thing weighs a TON, but it wasn't really cutting the mustard. I started figuring that while my medium-sized room might not be the culprit, the fact that one wall has a huge opening into a room twice as large might be causing some problems as far as pressurizing the main listening room. So I started sniffing around this forum for reviews of the SuperCubeII, figuring I might just go with a pair of subs: the existing SCI and a new SCII, which really ought to get the job done. Or so I thought.

But the more I read, this SVS thing just kept coming back, again and again. No one was all THAT impressed with the DT (a good but not great SW, in general), but the SVS subs were just praised to the heavens.

So I spent a lot of time reading user reviews of the SVS subs, and then a lot of time on their website, before ordering 2 PC12-NSD's. Ordered late Wed. night, shipped Thursday, rec'd Friday (I live in Ohio).

One thing I always knew from my previous days as a retail A/V consultant, and from continuing to sell and install home theater systems - there is no real substitute for size. I mean, you can make one of these unbelievably small (for the rated frequency response) and powerful subs (as from DT, even SVS, and many others), but it's hard to beat a large driver in a large, properly designed enclosure. I mean, even at huge SPL's, these things appear to just *loaf* along, pouring out the bass! And it's tight, well-defined, and there is plenty of it! Putting two of these bad boys in my room enables me to really get down in the basement on sub-bass, due to the high cubic footage (see 2nd paragraph).

Believe it or not, I haven't played a movie on it yet, first trying out my reference bass CD's while I manually tweaked the output level, cutoff frequency, etc. Then it was on to a night of Blu-Ray concert videos, and the bass response was just seamless. Movies are sometime this coming week. But so far, I am just pleased as punch about this purchase. What a great company, and a great forum of users and afficionados!

One question for now: Using the Integra DTC 9.8 sub pre-out, should I disable the LPF on the sub amp? I have the main front bookshelf speakers set to 80Hz in the AVR, and sub set accordingly. Turn off the LPF on the sub or leave it on?

Thanks again, all.

I had the same reaction to the SCs. It was before I had found this forum, so I wasn't prejudiced by other's opinions. Though they looked nice, they just didn't have the extension or output I was looking for.

Use the pre/pro for your bass management and disable the LP on the subs.

Enjoy.

.

Use the pre/pro for your bass management and disable the LP on the subs.



The reason I was wondering is I thought maybe the sub had a better (read:steeper) LPF filter than did the Integra. Although the way it's hooked up now, I guess I'm using both. For example, if the sub had a 24dB/octave slope, and the Integra only had a 6dB/octave slope, wouldn't I be better off using the built-in sub filtering? Trouble is, in a cursory examination of the Integra manual, I don't believe it gives the slope of the sub out circuit.

Thanks

The reason I was wondering is I thought maybe the sub had a better (read:steeper) LPF filter than did the Integra. Although the way it's hooked up now, I guess I'm using both. For example, if the sub had a 24dB/octave slope, and the Integra only had a 6dB/octave slope, wouldn't I be better off using the built-in sub filtering? Trouble is, in a cursory examination of the Integra manual, I don't believe it gives the slope of the sub out circuit.

ThanksI don't know the SVS LP slope, but I believe it is 12dB per octave. The problem with stacking them is it will only be applied to the sub. So the sub will come up faster than the satellites degrade. This could cause a peak around the XO.

Wouldn't you just use the one in which the speakers are plugged in? In other words, if you connect the FL/FR speakers to the pre/pro then you use it's crossover and turn off the sub's (or set it to any frequency higher that the pre/pro), if you connect speakers to the sub then you use the sub's LPF and set the pre/pro to large FL/FR. Does that make sense?

Yep, I've got the Integra pre-pro set for 80Hz cutoff on the front L+R and center speakers, and (right now) it's set for 100Hz for LPF for the sub out. I'm thinking I should turn off the LPF on the sub, and then maybe move the LPF cutoff freq. (in the pre/pro) down to 80-90Hz for the sub, instead of the 100 Hz currently. Thoughts, anyone?

Yep, I've got the Integra pre-pro set for 80Hz cutoff on the front L+R and center speakers, and (right now) it's set for 100Hz for LPF for the sub out. I'm thinking I should turn off the LPF on the sub, and then maybe move the LPF cutoff freq. (in the pre/pro) down to 80-90Hz for the sub, instead of the 100 Hz currently. Thoughts, anyone?


Turn off the LPF on the sub and turn UP the LPF on the Ingetgra. The LPF is not a crossover on the Integra. It is the .1 channel which is specified to allow up to 120 Hz.

I posted this in a "this sub vs. that sub" thread, but realized it was better suited for this thread....

With 4 Ultra 13's in a sealed 2200 cubic foot room,...what would be the best way to setup the subs...... all sealed?

Thanks.

Thanks.

I posted this in a "this sub vs. that sub" thread, but realized it was better suited for this thread....



Thanks.

Thats alot of sub for that space. If I had more then 1 Ultra in that cuft, then I'd tune to 10Hz and see how I liked em. (Plug 2 ports on each). I think if you went sealed, you would miss out on dynamics of movie bass that a ported design can offer.

I just bought a used PB10, that is one year old. It is my understanding, that SVS has transferable warranties. I have the original invoice from the buyer. Is that enough, if I ever have a problem, or do I need to officially transfer the warranty with SVS ahead of time?

Thanks
Greg

I'd give SVS a call and have it registered in their files.

I just bought a used PB10, that is one year old. It is my understanding, that SVS has transferable warranties. I have the original invoice from the buyer. Is that enough, if I ever have a problem, or do I need to officially transfer the warranty with SVS ahead of time?

Thanks
Greg

You're fine. I sold two PB10's a while back and double checked to make sure the buyer wouldn't have any issue getting warranty support. Though I gave the buyer copies of my invoices for the subs just in case, Erik at SVS told me that the invoice wasn't even necessary - the serial number on the back of the sub should be sufficient to look up the date of purchase and whether the sub is still under warranty.

...snip...
Erik at SVS told me that the invoice wasn't even necessary - the serial number on the back of the sub should be sufficient to look up the date of purchase and whether the sub is still under warranty.

....and that my friends is how it should be.

Most manufacturers look for ways to avoid making good on a warranty. Its refreshing to find one that doesn't.

....and that my friends is how it should be.

Most manufacturers look for ways to avoid making good on a warranty. Its refreshing to find one that doesn't.
I have always hated the warranties that are good only for the original purchaser. They are warrantying the product and whose house it is in shouldn't matter.

ransac,

My favorite is when a manufacturer sells product to a non authorized dealer, then refuses to warrant it. I hear that some States won't allow a manufacturer to avoid a claim under those circumstances.

What's wrong with my SB12+, or what am I doing wrong?

It was working fine where I initially placed it. I wanted to see how it sounds in another location. So I unplugged it, and moved the box. But as I was plugging it back in, I first plugged in the power. Then the LFE input from the AVR (which was off - or standby). When I clicked on the power swtich on the sub, it emitted this loud low electronic rumbling buzz. I turned it off and tried different ways of turning it on. I can turn it on if it's not connected to the AVR, or if I turn the gain to Min. But it always rumbles if I continue. If I plug it in all the way except plugging the LFE into the AVR, it even gives a loud thump if I just tap the end of the LFE cable with my finger.

What could be going on?

What's wrong with my SB12+, or what am I doing wrong?

It was working fine where I initially placed it. I wanted to see how it sounds in another location. So I unplugged it, and moved the box. But as I was plugging it back in, I first plugged in the power. Then the LFE input from the AVR (which was off - or standby). When I clicked on the power swtich on the sub, it emitted this loud low electronic rumbling buzz. I turned it off and tried different ways of turning it on. I can turn it on if it's not connected to the AVR, or if I turn the gain to Min. But it always rumbles if I continue. If I plug it in all the way except plugging the LFE into the AVR, it even gives a loud thump if I just tap the end of the LFE cable with my finger.

What could be going on?

If I'm reading your post correctly, it sounds as though you may have a defective LFE cable. Try substituting it with another one and see what happens.

If I'm reading your post correctly, it sounds as though you may have a defective LFE cable. Try substituting it with another one and see what happens.

Well, that worked. Thanks for the suggestion! That should have crossed my mind, but it is a brand new cable.

You're most welcome. Using a process of elimination, that's almost certainly what it had to be. Glad that fixed it.

Would a svs pb10 make a huge difference in a 10'x12'x8' room replacing a velodyne vx-10? I would appreciate any feedback on this at all. Thank you. 85% movies/ 15% music.

Would a svs pb10 make a huge difference in a 10'x12'x8' room replacing a velodyne vx-10? I would appreciate any feedback on this at all. Thank you. 85% movies/ 15% music.

It would be a significant improvement (assuming the VX-10 is similar to the DPS-10 which I have heard). However, I would keep that sub and save up for the PB12NSD. That would make a HUGE difference and you'll likely not feel the need to upgrade for some time, even if you ended up with a larger room. ;)

Could I mix a PB-13 Ultra with and SB-12 in the same system? And if I had 2 PB Ultra's is it advisable to make one ported and the other sealed? I will have audyssey to calibrate.

Would a svs pb10 make a huge difference in a 10'x12'x8' room replacing a velodyne vx-10? I would appreciate any feedback on this at all. Thank you. 85% movies/ 15% music.

It will be a big difference. I've had both a VX-10 and PB10-NSD in a 11'x10'x8' room and the SVS was much better. Its biggest advantage is in extension, though it has a good deal more output as well. Assuming you aren't a bass addict, the PB10-NSD is all you will want in your small room. If you are a bass addict, you might consider waiting a bit longer and saving for the PB12-NSD as was recommended by pbc.

Could I mix a PB-13 Ultra with and SB-12 in the same system? And if I had 2 PB Ultra's is it advisable to make one ported and the other sealed? I will have audyssey to calibrate.

I currently have that setup. But I could easily get by with just the Ultra in my medium (about 1750 feet cubed by SVS rules) HT room. I may be selling my SB-12plus to a friend anyhow. But for the time being, both are hooked up :D. They sound fine to me together, but I cannot say that I get more output by playing them together. The Ultra is enough alone from what I can hear.

Would a svs pb10 make a huge difference in a 10'x12'x8' room replacing a velodyne vx-10? I would appreciate any feedback on this at all. Thank you. 85% movies/ 15% music.

The PB10 would make a pretty big difference. As far as the recommendations to wait, and save up for the PB12; I am not so sure about that. Your room is very small. I have a small room, but still larger than yours (about 1450 cubic feet). I downsized from the PB12+ to the PB10, and I notice no difference at all, and have yet to push the PB10 to its limit. I listen at about 15dB below reference though. Maybe if I listened much louder, I would notice the difference, but the PB10 is very impressive.

The PB10 would make a pretty big difference. As far as the recommendations to wait, and save up for the PB12; I am not so sure about that. Your room is very small. I have a small room, but still larger than yours (about 1450 cubic feet). I downsized from the PB12+ to the PB10, and I notice no difference at all, and have yet to push the PB10 to its limit. I listen at about 15dB below reference though. Maybe if I listened much louder, I would notice the difference, but the PB10 is very impressive.

Thanks for your reply and all the others. I have made up my mind on the PB10 now it's just a matter of figuring out what I want to do with my velo vx-10, do I sell it, double it up with the PB-10, or save it for a possible second set -up? Now that's a problem I can deal with.

You might as well play around with it before selling the velo, an extra week in your hands won't hurt much :D


My PB10 that shipped yesterday is halfway to my house already. Somehow UPS thinks a 4 hour drive from where the package is located now takes 2 more business days to deliver... :o

Hello

Just would like an opinion about upgrading my current sub with my system. I currently have the paradigm pdr-10 v.3. I feel like I'am missing some low end when watching movies. I used to own the pw-2200 v.2, but that was too large of a sub in my new place so I had to downgrade. My options are:
ultracube 10 or 12
minivee 10
sb12-plus

What is your take on my options? Thanks

Hello

Just would like an opinion about upgrading my current sub with my system. I currently have the paradigm pdr-10 v.3. I feel like I'am missing some low end when watching movies. I used to own the pw-2200 v.2, but that was too large of a sub in my new place so I had to downgrade. My options are:
ultracube 10 or 12
minivee 10
sb12-plus

What is your take on my options? Thanks


If you absolutely must go small, the SB12-Plus is a nice sounding little sub, but has no major strength below 30hz. Also take a look at the similar sized Epik Vanquish.

Thanks

Yeah size is a major factor right now. I'd like to get something i know that i can use later on with my 2 channel rig. The pdr-10 won't cut it. I'll look into the Epik Vanquish.

Hey there

just saw the epik website and unfortunately they don't ship outside the U.S.:( The vanquish specs looked impressive though.

Thanks

Yeah size is a major factor right now. I'd like to get something i know that i can use later on with my 2 channel rig. The pdr-10 won't cut it. I'll look into the Epik Vanquish.

The SB12-Plus is great for music. It definitely can work well in a stereo system.

hi guys
I want to buy a 12" SVS sub

Is PB 12+ far more stronger than SB12+??

hi guys
I want to buy a 12" SVS sub

Is PB 12+ far more stronger than SB12+??

Yes, two completely different animals and really not comparable due to the difference in size and the difference in port and sealed characteristics. Unless you have space limitations where a 14" cube is required or will be using it in a small room the PB12+ is the way to go imo. The SB is a great performer for it's size but won't give the output of the PB

thanks a lot Jakeman

When I set up my PB12 NSD it replaced a Velo CHT-12. I mulled over the same question what to do with the Velodyne...I came up with the idea of using it to supplement the bass in my rear surround channels. I have used my receiver's pre out surround channels to send a signal to the Velodyne placed between my 2 rear surround speakers. I used RG6 cable with RCA connectors I attached to send the surround signals to the low level input ion the Velodyne ( it's about a 25' run) and balanced the subs output ( by ear) to the surrounds, setting the Velo's crossover around 8o HZ or so. It's surprising how much low bass content is present in the surround channels on some material. There was a little signal loss using such a long run from the pre out's but the Velo's volume control was able to more than make up for it and a balance was easy to achieve.

Just got back from auditioning the ultracube 10. Definitely better than my pdr-10. Goes lower and has more output. Could trade in my pdr-10 but won't get much for it, so i'd rather keep it for my 2 channel rig. How would the sb12-plus fair against the ultracube 10? Spec wise the sb12-plus has less power but bigger driver and cheaper. I've crossed out the minivee 10 because of price and the epik vanquish because they don't ship up to Canada right now.
I live in a townhouse and my veiwing area is only 10 x 15. So a small sub is the only option.

The SB12-Plus is great for music. It definitely can work well in a stereo system.

Thanks

Yeah size is a major factor right now. I'd like to get something i know that i can use later on with my 2 channel rig. The pdr-10 won't cut it. I'll look into the Epik Vanquish.

IMO,:D (BTW, I'm not getting at you guys)

I hear one thing all the time about the SB12+, it's a better sub for music than HT and you know what, it's fantastic for music. but...It's also great for movies and video games. A lot of people say that it's really not that great for HT, but in fact its a great sealed sub for HT. I love my SB12+!! It's small, powerful, and looks great (piano glass finish). I have a small room (attic) and it works wonders. The impact of tight and smooth bass I get, is incredible coming from that size of a footprint. I haven't even finished calibrating it yet (need an SPL meter) and it still sounds awesome to me. Now this is coming from someone that had a Polk psw10 (talk about booooooomy subs. lol). So for me, it's like having a Volkswagen Buggy from the 70's to a fully equipped M - Seris BMW. The difference was astounding!!

What some don't consider is that there are some people that will be fine with a sb12+ as opposed to something big like the PB12. A lot of us live in apt's and not private houses (if I had a house, than I would get a PB12+). So, we can't pump it up like a lot of you here to get that difference between a small sub and a big sub (sealed or ported). At the moderate volumes I listen to movies at (15db under reference) and play my games at, the subs is awesome. Feeling the impacts from explosion or the sounds of bullets from a gun makes me smile and appreciate it. So if you want something powerful, small, and that has a small footprint, I HIGHLY recommend the SB12+; I would definitely recommend it for small rooms to medium size rooms. I actually plan on buying another one when I move out of here to a bigger place. I'll gain 6db more with the addition.

Some people prefer one good sub over 2, but I really like my SB12+ (will eventually be plural).;)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3590/3425669738_b0742aeefc.jpg?v=0http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3307/3425669748_fb0f05fff3.jpg?v=0http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3562/3425669752_895a88ff32.jpg?v=0

It's not that people say the SB is not good for HT, it's just not its strong suit. Usually, this is a qualified statement when used in a medium to large room. In small rooms it will do well as you get more room gain down low where the SB will usually roll off.

It's not that people say the SB is not good for HT, it's just not its strong suit. Usually, this is a qualified statement when used in a medium to large room. In small rooms it will do well as you get more room gain down low where the SB will usually roll off.

Yeah I know. It's just that I feel a lot of people really down play it because they have a bigger sub or can get a bigger sub that out performs it because it goes lower. Oranges/Apples stuff. ;)

Congrats on your new toy VP...SV Sound doesn't make anything but excellent products and for your application it sounds perfect.

Congrats on your new toy VP...SV Sound doesn't make anything but excellent products and for your application it sounds perfect.

Hey RT! Thanks!

Just got back from auditioning the ultracube 10. Definitely better than my pdr-10. Goes lower and has more output. Could trade in my pdr-10 but won't get much for it, so i'd rather keep it for my 2 channel rig. How would the sb12-plus fair against the ultracube 10? Spec wise the sb12-plus has less power but bigger driver and cheaper. I've crossed out the minivee 10 because of price and the epik vanquish because they don't ship up to Canada right now.
I live in a townhouse and my veiwing area is only 10 x 15. So a small sub is the only option.

The SB12 would kill the Ultracube 10 IMO. I have the SB in my main system and I was looking at the Ultracube10 and Supercube 2 and 3 for my computer room, and I thought both Supercubes were better than the Paradigm. The SB just sounded better than all in my opinion. The SB is much tighter and just hits harder

One question. Is your HT room open to other rooms? If so, keep in mind that even though your viewing area is small, if you cannot close off the room, then the sub has to fill the whole open area, and you will need a much bigger sub if you really want to feel the bass.

My PB13 Ultra has just left SVS in Ohio and is on it way to a nice comfy home in Jersey...............The Wait is on.................

Good evening

I m almost getting my Ultra. I am Still deciding if it will be the best option. I know that the Ultra is a beast in output. i just have 3 doubts before making this next step. my speakers are Paradigm Studio 100, CC-690 and the ADP-590 with a Denon 3808.
I am a bass addict. I have a Paradigm Servo 15 v.2 in a 1300 cu feet. I have great bass but i need more.

1- I ve been reading the ultra thread and a few owners are complainning abou the popping issue.SVS says that people are pushing their subs too hard. i ve put my servo to reference lvls in movies like the incredible Hulk, WOTW e kung Fu panda and never had a popping issue. I just wanna know if it s an ultra problem.

2- How the Ultra distortion and sound quality compares with the Servo 15?

3-Do you guys think i am gonna have a hard time using them together? I m goint to buy the new SVS AS-EQ1 subwoofer EQ even if i don t go with the ultra.

I just don t know if i get an ultra or a Fathom or maybe even wait for the new SVS sealed 16.

Thanks for all your help:)

Rick

There was a GTG thread where they had F113, Ultra, DD18, and a Servo (don't remember if it was a v1 or v2). They quickly dismissed the Servo as it just didn't keep up with the others. The Servo also has protection that won't allow you to over drive it. On the Ultra, you just have to use more manual discretion.

It's not that people say the SB is not good for HT, it's just not its strong suit. Usually, this is a qualified statement when used in a medium to large room. In small rooms it will do well as you get more room gain down low where the SB will usually roll off.

my SB-12 "Rosie" in my 1800 cu. ft. HT room, which has openings to dining room and hallway, was plenty of sub. I had it for 10 months and could have died a happy man. That did not stop me from getting upgraditis ;) though. I bought an Ultra about 3 months ago. But Rosie has plenty of punch all by herself, and slam factor. I do not regret starting out with her whatsoever.

Good evening

I m almost getting my Ultra. I am Still deciding if it will be the best option. I know that the Ultra is a beast in output. i just have 3 doubts before making this next step. my speakers are Paradigm Studio 100, CC-690 and the ADP-590 with a Denon 3808.
I am a bass addict. I have a Paradigm Servo 15 v.2 in a 1300 cu feet. I have great bass but i need more.

1- I ve been reading the ultra thread and a few owners are complainning abou the popping issue.SVS says that people are pushing their subs too hard. i ve put my servo to reference lvls in movies like the incredible Hulk, WOTW e kung Fu panda and never had a popping issue. I just wanna know if it s an ultra problem.

2- How the Ultra distortion and sound quality compares with the Servo 15?

3-Do you guys think i am gonna have a hard time using them together? I m goint to buy the new SVS AS-EQ1 subwoofer EQ even if i don t go with the ultra.

I just don t know if i get an ultra or a Fathom or maybe even wait for the new SVS sealed 16.

Thanks for all your help:)

Rick

I am one of the few owners that has experienced the popping/clacking sound. After researching the issue in the SVS threads, as well as emailing SVS around a dozen times, the conclusion was made that I was overdriving my sub. I was running out of headroom with this sub in my large basement (6400 cu ft). I have since purchased/received a second Ultra. I have not experienced the popping sound again. I can only imagine how this sub would sound in a small/medium room. I almost envy you guys that have small, enclosed HT rooms.

Just to give you some comfort, I can tell you that I measured the output of the sub just before I knew it would pop. The sub output was right on par with how this sub is rated. I was just simply running out of headroom due to the size of my room.

Search the SVS Ultra thread for my ID and read my posts from beginning to end. You will be able to see what all I went through to dial in my sub, including everything I was doing wrong.

The SB12 would kill the Ultracube 10 IMO. I have the SB in my main system and I was looking at the Ultracube10 and Supercube 2 and 3 for my computer room, and I thought both Supercubes were better than the Paradigm. The SB just sounded better than all in my opinion. The SB is much tighter and just hits harder

One question. Is your HT room open to other rooms? If so, keep in mind that even though your viewing area is small, if you cannot close off the room, then the sub has to fill the whole open area, and you will need a much bigger sub if you really want to feel the bass.

No the room has a wall dividing the dining room/kitchen area.

Thanks a lot Randy and Counsil!

Since the Cylinder PC12+ is using the same woofer with PB12+, what is the difference between them? Which one is more powerful? Which one can spread the deep bass more efficiently?
Also I am living in 3/F in a building ,would the downfiring structure of Cylinder PC12+ affect more my 2/F neighbors than PB12+ do?

Since the Cylinder PC12+ is using the same woofer with PB12+, what is the difference between them? Which one is more powerful? Which one can spread the deep bass more efficiently?
Also I am living in 3/F in a building ,would the downfiring structure of Cylinder PC12+ affect more my 2/F neighbors than PB12+ do?

The differences are very slight and are most likely inaudible so go with whichever form factor works best for you.


As for the down firing vs. front firing, they will both fill the room with bass the same and most likely have the same effects on your neighbors. You may want to look at something like a Auralex Gramma to help isolate/decouple the subwoofer from the floor to help reduce sympathetic vibrations that can cause some of the rattling of items on your neighbors wall and bass transmission. Over all though, it will depend on the construction and materials your building utilized. Some are very well isolated from each other, some are not and you can hear everything in the apartment above you, not much you can do about that. Just make sure to introduce yourself to your neighbor and give them your phone number in case they have any issues.

The differences are very slight and are most likely inaudible so go with whichever form factor works best for you.


As for the down firing vs. front firing, they will both fill the room with bass the same and most likely have the same effects on your neighbors. You may want to look at something like a Auralex Gramma to help isolate/decouple the subwoofer from the floor to help reduce sympathetic vibrations that can cause some of the rattling of items on your neighbors wall and bass transmission. Over all though, it will depend on the construction and materials your building utilized. Some are very well isolated from each other, some are not and you can hear everything in the apartment above you, not much you can do about that. Just make sure to introduce yourself to your neighbor and give them your phone number in case they have any issues.
I just know that when I play thru my new pc12 in my upstairs (over-the-garage) HT room, a good portion of the 1st floor of our house is getting a good dose of rumble. There are no isolation products being used— just the pc12 on a hardwood floor... ;)

I just know that when I play thru my new pc12 in my upstairs (over-the-garage) HT room, a good portion of the 1st floor of our house is getting a good dose of rumble. There are no isolation products being used— just the pc12 on a hardwood floor... ;)

What if I put a carpet under PC12?

my SB-12 "Rosie" in my 1800 cu. ft. HT room, which has openings to dining room and hallway, was plenty of sub. I had it for 10 months and could have died a happy man. That did not stop me from getting upgraditis ;) though. I bought an Ultra about 3 months ago. But Rosie has plenty of punch all by herself, and slam factor. I do not regret starting out with her whatsoever.

My thoughts exactly:):):):) in love with this sub!

Hey guys, lookin to join your ranks! I'm thinking of upgrading from my BIC Acoustech h-100 sub which I really like and am wondering if I get a svs pc12-nsd or pb12-nsd how much of an upgrade that would be for me. I'm expecting it to be alot. The h-100 is rated to go down to 24hz and the pb or pc-12 I think it rated at 17hz. Also, can't decide if cylinder or regular box type be best. Thanks. Also, how much does it matter that my h-100 has a 500 watt amp and the pb12-nsd only has a 325 watt amp?

Hey guys, lookin to join your ranks! I'm thinking of upgrading from my BIC Acoustech h-100 sub which I really like and am wondering if I get a svs pc12-nsd or pb12-nsd how much of an upgrade that would be for me. I'm expecting it to be alot. The h-100 is rated to go down to 24hz and the pb or pc-12 I think it rated at 17hz. Also, can't decide if cylinder or regular box type be best. Thanks. Also, how much does it matter that my h-100 has a 500 watt amp and the pb12-nsd only has a 325 watt amp?
I would also like to know exactly what are the pros and cons of the box sub vs the cylindrical sub? Thanks.

Hey guys, lookin to join your ranks! I'm thinking of upgrading from my BIC Acoustech h-100 sub which I really like and am wondering if I get a svs pc12-nsd or pb12-nsd how much of an upgrade that would be for me. I'm expecting it to be alot. The h-100 is rated to go down to 24hz and the pb or pc-12 I think it rated at 17hz. Also, can't decide if cylinder or regular box type be best. Thanks. Also, how much does it matter that my h-100 has a 500 watt amp and the pb12-nsd only has a 325 watt amp?

Actually, that h-100 is only 150 watts RMS, 500 peak, and the SVS is 325 RMS. Based on its smaller size and amp, I'm thinking 24 Hz is generous (at least with regard to usable output). SV Sound is conservative, rather than generous, with their measurements. Given the larger enclosure and larger amp, there should be no comparison between the two.

As to cylinder vs. box, they're virtually sonic twins. The box will have a slight advantage because of its larger enclosure, but it's highly unlikely you'll notice (and if you do, you need a larger sub anyway because you'd be pushing it to its limits). The cylinders have a smaller footprint, so it's more flexible about placement and takes up less floor space.

-Robb

Actually, that h-100 is only 150 watts RMS, 500 peak, and the SVS is 325 RMS. Based on its smaller size and amp, I'm thinking 24 Hz is generous (at least with regard to usable output). SV Sound is conservative, rather than generous, with their measurements. Given the larger enclosure and larger amp, there should be no comparison between the two.

As to cylinder vs. box, they're virtually sonic twins. The box will have a slight advantage because of its larger enclosure, but it's highly unlikely you'll notice (and if you do, you need a larger sub anyway because you'd be pushing it to its limits). The cylinders have a smaller footprint, so it's more flexible about placement and takes up less floor space.

-Robb
Thanks for the reply. I guess it just boils down to shapes. Whether a box or a cylinder is your preference.