How much output is 50% more powerful? 1.5dB?... 5dB?... Double the output (by adding another sub, for instance) is ~6dB, 50% is 3-4dB. Quite noticeable in the deep bass.

Thanks for the info...i had no idea the performance difference between the 2 is so drastic...especially from reading the SPECIFICATIONS on the 2 subs.
Yeah, the specs and FR charts on the site don't tell what they can do wrt performance.

Your yellow writing is like reading secret messages as a kid...written by majic invisible markers....needing another special marker to reveal the spy message.Hah..sorry. As Dave notes, though, it looked fine to me on the black background. :)

Hello all, well I've ordered my PB13 ultra from SonicBoom in mid April, and I still haven't received anything. I've been patiently waiting. I've contacted them and apparently there was a delay due to a shortage of drivers. It's now been over 2 months and I have to say I'm pretty disappointed. Not once was anything communicated to me about the delay. I called them again and they've given me a discount on the AS-EQ1. Not much but it kept me at bay. Now that was two weeks ago.

I'm hoping it's worth the wait, but at this point I have to say the service has not been great. Sorry about that! I know Mason sent out some updates along the way about the delay but yours may have gotten snagged. In any event, the back-order is almost over and you'll have yours next week (I contacted them this morning).

Thanks for the info Jack.

So can anything be done to upgrade to PB-10 ISD? I have heard port chuffing on it several times. What about puting something in it like Acoustuff to help with that?

So upgrading the woofer in the 20-39 PCi would be advisable? What about other woofer that I see for sale once in a while... like I think the 12.2 or something like that, where someone pulled it out of their SVS sub to upgrade to a better woofer. Would it be advisable to put one of those in the 20-39?

Port chuffing occurs when airspeed in the port gets too high. The only thing that can be done is to lower the level or add another PB10. :)
All stuffing a sub does is increase the apparent box volume a bit.

The Plus 12.2 and Plus 12.3 woofers aren't compatible with the NSD subs and there's not enough power available to make it worthwhile anyway.

Port chuffing occurs when airspeed in the port gets too high. The only thing that can be done is to lower the level or add another PB10. :)
All stuffing a sub does is increase the apparent box volume a bit.

The Plus 12.2 and Plus 12.3 woofers aren't compatible with the NSD subs and there's not enough power available to make it worthwhile anyway.

Well, I just recently added the 20-39PCi to the theater where the PB-10 ISD is too. So if the greater power and extension should fix the chuffing, then hopfully I'm good to go now.
I recently heard the chuffing on a Blu-ray movie, and the sound was repeatable too. I wish I could remember what the movie was so I could test it again with the addition of the 20-39.

As for upgrading the 20-39 PCi, it seems you are listing two options...
Leave it as_is, or put in a newer model woofer, the NSD model.
So how much improvement are we talking about between the two woofers?

Thanks Jack.

Well, I just recently added the 20-39PCi to the theater where the PB-10 ISD is too. So if the greater power and extension should fix the chuffing, then hopfully I'm good to go now.
I recently heard the chuffing on a Blu-ray movie, and the sound was repeatable too. I wish I could remember what the movie was so I could test it again with the addition of the 20-39.

As for upgrading the 20-39 PCi, it seems you are listing two options...
Leave it as_is, or put in a newer model woofer, the NSD model.
So how much improvement are we talking about between the two woofers?

Thanks Jack.

A lot of Blu-ray discs have some pretty high-level subsonic content that can easily cause ported subs to chuff. I'm using an Epik Castle, a 15" sub with a 6" port (which has a 4x larger opening for air to pass through than a 3" port), tuned to 19hz, and I still encounter port noise while watching certain movies at spirited levels in my <1,000 cubic foot room. I've noticed it in The Incredible Hulk, Kung Fu Panda, and several other movies when I listen at -10dB from reference or louder (subwoofer calibrated about 1-2dB hot).

I've actually resorted to implementing an external passive high pass filter (20hz filter, 12dB/octave roll off) which has greatly reduced port noise. Of course, this filter also reduces bass output below 20hz, but it's worth it to me to get rid of the port noise. The sub's amp already has a built-in 12dB/octave filter, so I have an effective 24dB/octave filter now, keeping port noise to a minimum.

It seems that in order to experience the newest movie soundtracks anywhere near reference levels, HT enthusiasts are going to need some MAJOR subwoofer capability. What might have been considered serious overkill just a few years ago now seems to be a requirement. My method of keeping bass quality acceptable is pragmatic but not ideal - I'd much rather experience the soundtrack as intended instead of rolling off the deepest bass. I'm already considering building dual 18" sealed subs in the future to put in my 11'x10' room to ensure that I have the headroom and extension I desire without running into compression or artifacts.

At any rate, best of luck and I hope adding the second sub to your HT fixes the chuffing problem :).

At any rate, best of luck and I hope adding the second sub to your HT fixes the chuffing problem :).
Thanks for sharing those thoughts. I agree with your sentiments too. The newer soundtracks with heavily mixed bass and LFE are very demanding on our subs.

Double the output (by adding another sub, for instance) is 6dB, so 50% is 3dB. Quite noticeable in the deep bass.



Yeah, the specs and FR charts on the site don't tell what they can do wrt performance.


Hah..sorry. As Dave notes, though, it looked fine to me on the black background. :)



Sorry about that! I know Mason sent out some updates along the way about the delay but yours may have gotten snagged. In any event, the back-order is almost over and you'll have yours next week (I contacted them this morning).

Thanks Jack, I appreciate the feedback.

just picked up a B stock PB13-Ultra :)

Should be here by monday.

cant' wait.. This should match my rockets perfectly :)

^ was it that b-stock rosenut w/ cloth grill???

Just wanted to come in here and say that my PB10 is amazing and is about to hit 1 year anniversary. I usually get sick of the same equipment. Not this one.

HEY SVS PEOPLE!!! SOME OF US WANT A PB10 ULTRA!!!

I'm still amazed how my PB12-Ultra/2 still sounds! To date I haven't heard another sub I like better. I bought the PB12-Ultra/2 several years ago. Tonight I decide to look at my receipt after seeing this thread recently lurking AVS again. But the receipt did not show a date. So I was curious and emailed SVS with the order and invoice number @ 11:49pm pst. At 12:56am I received an email from Erik at SVS! So I'm going on 3 years and 3 months with an awesome sounding sub.

I'm still amazed how my PB12-Ultra/2 still sounds! To date I haven't heard another sub I like better. I bought the PB12-Ultra/2 several years ago. Tonight I decide to look at my receipt after seeing this thread recently lurking AVS again. But the receipt did not show a date. So I was curious and emailed SVS with the order and invoice number @ 11:49pm pst. At 12:56am I received an email from Erik at SVS! So I'm going on 3 years and 3 months with an awesome sounding sub.

Yeah, the PB12 Ultra/2 is one awesome sub. I can't ever see replacing it (at least until it stops working). It's too heavy to move anyway :)

^ was it that b-stock rosenut w/ cloth grill???

yes.

Has anyone successfully covered up and/or fixed a blemish in a rosenut PB13 Ultra?

Well, I just recently added the 20-39PCi to the theater where the PB-10 ISD is too. So if the greater power and extension should fix the chuffing, then hopfully I'm good to go now.
I recently heard the chuffing on a Blu-ray movie, and the sound was repeatable too. I wish I could remember what the movie was so I could test it again with the addition of the 20-39.

To the extent that adding a second sub allows each to be run at a lower level for a given SPL, it also tends to lead to a reduction in chuffing. I'd co-locate them for maximum coupling.

As for upgrading the 20-39 PCi, it seems you are listing two options...
Leave it as_is, or put in a newer model woofer, the NSD model.
So how much improvement are we talking about between the two woofers?



How old is the PCi? Might be one of those "if it ain't broke..." situations. :)

I am replacing a brokendown Yamaha and installing and new Pioneer SC-05 receiver for surround listening (mainly BD & HD DVD movies).

I have a SB12+ (mains are Klipschorns)

Any suggestions reccomendations as to what settings I should have the sub dailed to before running the SC-05's advanced MCACC before calibration and while doing the calibration?

I have seen some post reccomending Crossover at 80 and Phase 0, but those were not specific to an SVS sub.

Thanks

Gman

Ok got the Dual PB12+'S In the house and calibrated. and they are HUGE and Heavy. and they are as mean as the look and feel....soon as we got them fired up

the wife said "ummm our house is rumbling
wtf"


ME: lol


WIFE: its like a low rumble...but i feel it somehow


ME: :D


mission accomplished

Ok got the Dual PB12+'S In the house and calibrated. and they are HUGE and Heavy. and they are as mean as the look and feel....soon as we got them fired up

the wife said "ummm our house is rumbling
wtf"


ME: lol


WIFE: its like a low rumble...but i feel it somehow


ME: :D


mission accomplished

Nice.. very nice.. My PB13 Ultra gets here Monday :) I hope to report a similar post :)

its like a low rumble...but i feel it somehow

The ULTIMATE compliment to a sub setup.:)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/paranormalg35/DSC_0511.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/paranormalg35/DSC_0515.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/paranormalg35/DSC_0516.jpg

Okay, okay... I'm curious what folks think about my "wild" idea. (Note: this has not been approved by the wife yet, so uhhhh... anyway...).

Currently I have two 20hz Plus cylinders (each with 1 plug, thus tuned to 16 hz) downstairs in my home theater. My home theater is generally rectangular, but due to room limitations the couch is about 1/2 way accross the room, which leads to a predictably big dip around 56 hz. Not much to do about that one, though EQ'ing helps. My L/R speakers are paradigm Sig C3s; my center is a C5.

Upstairs, for music, I have a PB Plus 12/2. It powes a pretty big space, but does a great job.

Here's my idea:

Wire the two cylinders in line with the L and R channels, and use the sub's crossover. They are alreay placed just behind the L/Rs anyway.

Center channel stays at 80hz, or possibly move its crossover to 60hz, in order to reduce some of the issues with localization of the 60 - 100hz bass.

Move the box downstairs. It's now for LFE and picking up center channel slack. I'm not sure where room placement would be. It may be too tall to fit under my proj screen, which means it might not be able to be directly behind the center channel. My wife is likely to be overjoyed when I remove the GINORMOUS matte black box from our living room, and replace it something a little smaller and more aesthetic (probably a paradigm, so that the finish exactly matches the upstairs speakers).

My primary concern is whether this will make tight, linear bass too much of a challenge in my downstairs. (Loud, certainly...). As you add subs, and do some of what I am describing, it could get challenging to eq and do placement.

What do people think? Any other downsides?

Thanks,

Sage

sage,

How are you EQing the downstairs system?

Have you readjusted the subwoofer distance setting in your prepro/receiver to allow for EQ induced delay?

sage,

How are you EQing the downstairs system?

Have you readjusted the subwoofer distance setting in your prepro/receiver to allow for EQ induced delay?

Not quite following the logic behind the question, but:
1) 1x Behringer FBD w/ output split to both subs*
2) Auto EQ on my PE receiver added 1' to the actual distance, which is just about right for delay.

* This died along with some other equipment, due to brownout problems, recently, but I intend on either getting another, or picking up one of the more expensive solutions (such as the the one sold by SVS).

sage,

This gets into subwoofer talk and rather than derail this thread (like that could happen) I'll PM you.

Hello,
I have a PB12-plus and want to play around with the tuning. I can't find my manual this second, but does it matter which ports get plugged for tuning?
Thanks.

Lathamb

it dosnt matter wich one you plug. i chose the center one for looks.

Okay, okay... I'm curious what folks think about my "wild" idea. (Note: this has not been approved by the wife yet, so uhhhh... anyway...).

Currently I have two 20hz Plus cylinders (each with 1 plug, thus tuned to 16 hz) downstairs in my home theater. My home theater is generally rectangular, but due to room limitations the couch is about 1/2 way across the room, which leads to a predictably big dip around 56 hz. Not much to do about that one, though EQ'ing helps. My L/R speakers are paradigm Sig C3s; my center is a C5.

Upstairs, for music, I have a PB Plus 12/2. It powers a pretty big space, but does a great job.

Here's my idea:

Wire the two cylinders in line with the L and R channels, and use the sub's crossover. They are already placed just behind the L/Rs anyway.

Center channel stays at 80hz, or possibly move its crossover to 60hz, in order to reduce some of the issues with localization of the 60 - 100hz bass.

Move the box downstairs. It's now for LFE and picking up center channel slack. I'm not sure where room placement would be. It may be too tall to fit under my proj screen, which means it might not be able to be directly behind the center channel. My wife is likely to be overjoyed when I remove the GINORMOUS matte black box from our living room, and replace it something a little smaller and more aesthetic (probably a paradigm, so that the finish exactly matches the upstairs speakers).

My primary concern is whether this will make tight, linear bass too much of a challenge in my downstairs. (Loud, certainly...). As you add subs, and do some of what I am describing, it could get challenging to eq and do placement.

What do people think? Any other downsides?

Thanks,

SageI can think of a few possible solutions just off the top of my head.
Is there any way to place the +/2 behind the couch or in the rear of the room? You could use it to negate the null.

Place the +/2 up front and move the cylinders to the back corners.

Is the +/2 the same generation as the cylinders?

If it must be up front and is too tall to place in the middle of the wall, remove the base plate, plug to screw holes and lay it on it's side. But this won't help eliminate the null.

If you also play two channel music, then your idea would work for both stereo and 5.1.

You could also just add the +/2 as a third sub by splitting the signal again.

Get the SVS AS-EQ1 and use one channel for the cylinders and one for the +/2 no matter how they are placed.


sage,

This gets into subwoofer talk and rather than derail this thread (like that could happen) I'll PM you.This is a subwoofer talk/SVS support thread. Why would a discussion on Sage's situation be derailing this thread?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/paranormalg35/DSC_0511.jpgNice looking set up. You have a good sense of symmetry. You will have to have another child to put on the right side.:)

How far away is the seating? I notice you have no toe in on the mains. Have you tried moving them forward and turning then in toward the central seating?

the seating is about 11 feet away. and yes the mains will come out as soon as i get a new mount for my new 60" kuro it was hard getting the sony off the mount with the speakers in the way so we left them back for now.. if you look closely its in a box on the side.

I can think of a few possible solutions just off the top of my head.
Is there any way to place the +/2 behind the couch or in the rear of the room? You could use it to negate the null.

Place the +/2 up front and move the cylinders to the back corners.

Is the +/2 the same generation as the cylinders?

If it must be up front and is too tall to place in the middle of the wall, remove the base plate, plug to screw holes and lay it on it's side. But this won't help eliminate the null.

If you also play two channel music, then your idea would work for both stereo and 5.1.

You could also just add the +/2 as a third sub by splitting the signal again.

Get the SVS AS-EQ1 and use one channel for the cylinders and one for the +/2 no matter how they are placed.


Thanks for the response!

The +/2 is a 12.3, the cylinders are a 12.2 -- so same generation, but not the exact same driver.

In terms of placement, I really like your idea of putting it behind the couch. In fact that woud work quite well. There's a coffee table in that spot currently, but it's only there to keep people from walking head first into my projector. A 300 lbs sub would work fine for that too. :)

Now, it will only really help with the null if it's playing the same 'mix' as to the two cylinders, though, yes? I.e. if they're just playing the L / R channel bass, they're not going to be reinforced by the +/2, since it's busy with the LFE? Is that correct?

I have heard a theory that the 'simplest' sub setups are the best, since that makes for the most correctable room modes. Or will the SV Sound EQ box basically resolve anything that's not seriously egregious? And this idea just seems kind of... neat. Are there pros and cons for just doing a 3-way split of the .1 channel + speaker bass mix, vs. a more complicated cross over based system like I am describing?

Sage

Thanks for the response!

The +/2 is a 12.3, the cylinders are a 12.2 -- so same generation, but not the exact same driver.
SageI originally had a 20-39 PC+ with the .2 driver. The driver failed after a short time and SVS replaced it with the .3. The .3 is a better driver, but I couldn't compare them to give a definitive opinion on the difference.

In terms of placement, I really like your idea of putting it behind the couch. In fact that would work quite well. There's a coffee table in that spot currently, but it's only there to keep people from walking head first into my projector. A 300 lbs sub would work fine for that too. :)
SageIt also gives a nice back massage. Placed there, it should eliminate the null caused by what I suspect is the reflection off the back wall.

Now, it will only really help with the null if it's playing the same 'mix' as to the two cylinders, though, yes? I.e. if they're just playing the L / R channel bass, they're not going to be reinforced by the +/2, since it's busy with the LFE? Is that correct?
SageYes. But, if they are all up front, you will more than likely have a null in the same range. If they all get the same FR and are placed in different locations, you should minimize or eliminate the null.

I have heard a theory that the 'simplest' sub setups are the best, since that makes for the most correctable room modes. Or will the SV Sound EQ box basically resolve anything that's not seriously egregious? And this idea just seems kind of... neat. Are there pros and cons for just doing a 3-way split of the .1 channel + speaker bass mix, vs. a more complicated cross over based system like I am describing?
SageThe AS-EQ1 is an elegant solution for multiple subs in multiple locations for multiple seating positions. There are more econmical solutions, like the Antimode, SMS-1, or multiple BFDs, but I doubt there is an easier solution. I don't believe any of the other solutions correct for the time domain.

If you run the cylinders off the L/R mains, it will require more tweaking. If you play stereo music, it can prove beneficial as you will get the deeper, more powerful bass in stereo without having to simulate a bass channel. They will still contribute to HT with the added deeper bass of the +/2 on the LFE channel. You may need to put an outboard HP filter on each main channel to avoid FR overlap when in a 5.1 mode, but the LFE+Mains setting may be just do the trick. This is just something you would have to experiment with. Running them all off the LFE/Bass managed channel is a simpler solution, especially if you only run them for HT.

Lathamb

it dosnt matter wich one you plug. i chose the center one for looks.

Great, thanks. And nice looking setup! I can only imagine the bass you get from two of those.

Hey Guys,

I am really contemplating about purchasing the SB12+ for my small apartment, but I have read on here that it is not that great of a HT sub. My apartment is pretty small (18x11x10) so the SB12+ may be enough. I just dont want to regret spending 700+ when I do move into a bigger place and find that my sub is not full-feeling my needs.

My other choice is the eD A2-300.

Tuan

Hey Guys,

I am really contemplating about purchasing the SB12+ for my small apartment, but I have read on here that it is not that great of a HT sub. My apartment is pretty small (18x11x10) so the SB12+ may be enough. I just dont want to regret spending 700+ when I do move into a bigger place and find that my sub is not full-feeling my needs.

My other choice is the eD A2-300.

TuanPeople are usually comparing the SB12 to bigger ported boxes for HT performance. In an apartment, you can't take full advantage of the beasts. The SB12 will be just fine in a small apartment. If you are moving into a house soon, then just hold off and get what you need. As long as you don't abuse it, the SB12 will still return 70 to 80% of the price you pay if you choose to sell it.

I originally had a 20-39 PC+ with the .2 driver. The driver failed after a short time and SVS replaced it with the .3. The .3 is a better driver, but I couldn't compare them to give a definitive opinion on the difference.

It also gives a nice back massage. Placed there, it should eliminate the null caused by what I suspect is the reflection off the back wall.

Yes. But, if they are all up front, you will more than likely have a null in the same range. If they all get the same FR and are placed in different locations, you should minimize or eliminate the null.

The AS-EQ1 is an elegant solution for multiple subs in multiple locations for multiple seating positions. There are more econmical solutions, like the Antimode, SMS-1, or multiple BFDs, but I doubt there is an easier solution. I don't believe any of the other solutions correct for the time domain.

If you run the cylinders off the L/R mains, it will require more tweaking. If you play stereo music, it can prove beneficial as you will get the deeper, more powerful bass in stereo without having to simulate a bass channel. They will still contribute to HT with the added deeper bass of the +/2 on the LFE channel. You may need to put an outboard HP filter on each main channel to avoid FR overlap when in a 5.1 mode, but the LFE+Mains setting may be just do the trick. This is just something you would have to experiment with. Running them all off the LFE/Bass managed channel is a simpler solution, especially if you only run them for HT.

Hello,

Thank for taking the time to respond. I also had problems with the .2 driver failing, and went through 2; SVS great support of course made this easy as could be.

I think I am going to have to budget for the EQ1.

I actually do not play much stereo music in the home theater. I enjoy doing it, but it's too out of the way.

Regarding the use of a HP filter, shouldn't the HP filter that is built into the subwoofer be sufficient?

Are there any real benefits to seting up the cylinders as L / R bass in my 7.1 system? Or is it best to just let the bass management deal with the mix? This is kind of what I am trying to figure out -- pros and cons of each solution. I suppose really the answer is: try it, measure, and see what I get.

Does the EQ-1 provide any kind of numerical output to allow me to see / graph different outcomes?

Of course, now I need to sell the wife on this solution, since it will entail a significant expediture on our upstairs sub, since it's such a large area.:D

Sage

Hi,
i ordered a SVS PB13 Ultra in the piano gloss finish last week, and I'm very happy for this ;) .
I'm in anxiously waiting.... :p

Only one question:
is it magnetically shielded?

Thanks very much !

The PB13 is not shielded. Very few subs are shielded.

Regarding the use of a HP filter, shouldn't the HP filter that is built into the subwoofer be sufficient?
SageBuilt in to the sub is a Low Pass filter to block high frequencies. If you want to use the subs for different FRs, then this won't work as the subs will play to the lowest they can with the signal they are fed. You would have to add an HP filter to cut off the bottom end where you want the +/2 to to take over from the 20-39s. You will also have to set your crossover in the AVR to the point you want the +/2 to to play.
I fell your best options are to run all the subs off the SW pre out, or run the 20-39s off the mains, set your AVR XO to 80, Mains to large, surrounds/center to small. Disable the XO on the +/2 and set the 20-39s XO to where they blend with the mains. Now set the sub out on the AVR to LFE+Mains (or what ever they call it on your receiver). This will send a full range to your mains in HT or stereo modes and the 20-39s will direct what goes to the mains via their XO. The AVR's XO will manage the bass for the +/2 and the surrounds.


Are there any real benefits to setting up the cylinders as L / R bass in my 7.1 system? Or is it best to just let the bass management deal with the mix? This is kind of what I am trying to figure out -- pros and cons of each solution. I suppose really the answer is: try it, measure, and see what I get.
Sage
If you aren't going to use them for 2 channel stuff, then no. If you play pure stereo, then yes. You will get the full range from your mains and the added extension of the 20-39s. When you switch to HT, then the +/2 and your surrounds get added in.


Does the EQ-1 provide any kind of numerical output to allow me to see / graph different outcomes?
Sage
It provides before and after graphs. Best to ask in the AS-EQ1 thread. In this regard, the SMS-1 is a better tool as it lets you see results immediately. I believe is also lets you set up three separate subs and you can built your own curves. But it treats each sub individually and does not have time domain adjustments or multiple seating adjustments. The AS-EQ1 will adjust for your subs as a system and blend them for multiple seating locations.


Perhaps someone more knowledgeable and/or articulate than I am will chime in to explain or even set me straight. You can also contact SVS and see what they would recommend.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable and/or articulate than I am will chime in to explain or even set me straight. You can also contact SVS and see what they would recommend.

All great ideas -- thank you immensely for your time here. I'm going to play around with this when I get home in July, but since this is pretty much a dedicated home theater I may just end running all the subs directly out of the sub pre-outs.

And of course, this got me thinking... why not just see if I can buy someone's old used 16-46 PC+ cylinder, and put THAT behind the couch? Then, I can leave the lovely, volkswagon sized matte-black +/2 upstairs, where it is slowly tilting my house (but providing great bass in a very large open space).

I will go read the SVS EQ thread before I go ask questions. I'm sure there's information to be had there before I go ask repetitive questions! :)

Sage

The PB13 is not shielded. Very few subs are shielded.
Thanks for the fast reply ;)

I have to find another location to put my new "baby" when it will arrive.

Bye

Hi,
i ordered a SVS PB13 Ultra in the piano gloss finish last week, and I'm very happy for this ;) .
I'm in anxiously waiting.... :p

Only one question:
is it magnetically shielded?

Thanks very much !

Unless you're using a CRT that uses magnetic fields to control the image, not having a shielded sub shouldn't matter.

Now i'm using a 36" crt (Sony KV-36HQ100), so i think the best think would be to put the PB13 far from it... :rolleyes:
When it will arrive home, i'll do some test to find the best location.

Thanks again ;)

Now i'm using a 36" crt (Sony KV-36HQ100), so i think the best think would be to put the PB13 far from it... :rolleyes:
When it will arrive home, i'll do some test to find the best location.

Thanks again ;)

It might not need be "far" but most likely at least a few feet unless you like magenta.

To give you an idea, I currently have my PC13 Ultra a little over 1 foot to the side of my 57" CRT rear projection TV, with no ill effects.


Tim

Just got my PB12 NSD on Thursday. Finally had it set up yesterday.

Here are some pics.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h289/sole_kartoon/IMG_4400.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h289/sole_kartoon/IMG_4401-1.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h289/sole_kartoon/IMG_4409.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h289/sole_kartoon/IMG_4406.jpg

Thanks to Jack from SVS for all the helpful answers and quick replys.

This thing kicks HARD :D Well worth the $$.

I have an opportunity to buy a SVS PB-12 Plus 2. Is it a good deal for 900 shipped to my door? I was initially trying to stay within a budget of 750 shipped...but this seems like a good deal. It still has a couple of years left of warranty, and has all the original packing and box...and yes, is in mint condition.

Is this deal worth me fighting my wife over?

I have an opportunity to buy a SVS PB-12 Plus 2. Is it a good deal for 900 shipped to my door? I was initially trying to stay within a budget of 750 shipped...but this seems like a good deal. It still has a couple of years left of warranty, and has all the original packing and box...and yes, is in mint condition.

Is this deal worth me fighting my wife over?

Its a superb choice for HT use, I've had mine since 2005.

For music, I used REW to dial it in, but its still a little boomy/muddy for music, but I'm fine with it.

I'm am looking to demo some of the SVS Subs before buying and I wondered if anyone in the Lansing/East Lansing Michigan area had one, if they could send me a PM if you would be willing to let me hear them. I can't drive to Ohio (as close as it is) at the moment so I figure this might be the next best thing.

I have an opportunity to buy a SVS PB-12 Plus 2. Is it a good deal for 900 shipped to my door? I was initially trying to stay within a budget of 750 shipped...but this seems like a good deal. It still has a couple of years left of warranty, and has all the original packing and box...and yes, is in mint condition.

Is this deal worth me fighting my wife over?

Sorry to be persistant, but I have to make the call by today. Will this move a lot more air than a PB-12 NSD?? I wonder if it is sometimes better buying 2 entry subs (like 2 x PB-10), as opposed to something large like this.

Again, is it worth me fighting my budget up a couple of hundred dollars to get a used PB-12 Plus 2 for $900 shipped...or should I just be happy with a new PB-12?

Without knowing your room dimensions, gear & listening preferences, no one can help you but yourself.

Sorry to be persistant, but I have to make the call by today. Will this move a lot more air than a PB-12 NSD?? I wonder if it is sometimes better buying 2 entry subs (like 2 x PB-10), as opposed to something large like this.

Again, is it worth me fighting my budget up a couple of hundred dollars to get a used PB-12 Plus 2 for $900 shipped...or should I just be happy with a new PB-12?

That was a well regarded sub back when, but the design has been retired. New subs can be had for close to the same price, like the eD A7S-450 or the A5-350. Tough call, good luck!

Without knowing your room dimensions, gear & listening preferences, no one can help you but yourself.
I appreciate your kind words and willingness to help:rolleyes:.

The sub will be used for 99% HT (I know these ported subs are not known for accuracy, and if I listened to music I would go with an Epik sealed sub). I don't think room dynamics is relevant to my question, as any sub will perform different in different rooms.

That was a well regarded sub back when, but the design has been retired. New subs can be had for close to the same price, like the eD A7S-450 or the A5-350. Tough call, good luck!

I have been contemplating eD for a while, but if they can't warranty their amps for longer than 1 year...that is a poor reflection on their confidence in their product, and thus will cause me to have a poor opinion in the reliability of their product.

My budget was $750 shipped, and the closest competitors to the PB-12 NSD is the HSU VTF3-3, or Outlaw LFM-EX.

Is the PB-Ultra the replacement for the older PB-12/+2?

Is the PB-Ultra the replacement for the older PB-12/+2?

No. There has been an ultra driver for some time now. I think it used to be the TV12 or something...but it was a 12" driver.

IMO, I think that's maybe just a bit high on the price. If I were in your shoes, I'd try to talk him down to $800 and go with that.

I have had a +/2 for 3+ years now and it is a terrific performer for HT. I don't listen to music on my system, so it is not a factor for me. The only regret I have with this purchase is due to the size. It leaves you with few placement options. If I were to do this again, I would either go with dual subs or a more powerful single. Both options seem to be over your budget.

Based on the comments from people getting the new PB12-NSD, I would give it serious consideration. Many appear to be passing on the Plus line and just pony up for the Ultra when they want something of higher SQ and output than the NSD.

If you are going strictly HT, and you need something as powerful as the +/2, and you have a good understanding of the size of this beast, and there is still some warranty left on it, the +/2 is a good option at this price point. Some of the newer 15" and 18" subs will equal or exceed the +/2 in output, but these are big boxes as well.

I think you should do some more research on some of the newer offerings from SVS, HSU, Epik, Rythmik, and even eD. They may cost a little more, but you should get more for your money. Or, I would offer $100 less for the +/2. It's tough out there and better deals are to be had.

Sorry to be persistant, but I have to make the call by today. Will this move a lot more air than a PB-12 NSD?? I wonder if it is sometimes better buying 2 entry subs (like 2 x PB-10), as opposed to something large like this.

Again, is it worth me fighting my budget up a couple of hundred dollars to get a used PB-12 Plus 2 for $900 shipped...or should I just be happy with a new PB-12?

About a year ago I purchased a PB12 Ultra/2 for $800. It was a local purchase, so no shipping charges. I'm not saying this is a good or bad deal for you, I'm just putting it out there what I was able to find....

Thank you very much for all the info!! Our beloved Jack Gilvey has already responed to my early AM email:

"The PB12-Plus/2 is certainly a killer sub and would have more output than a single PB12-NSD or dual PB10-NSD. At 2 yrs. old it should have the latest 12.3 drivers, and if you can get me a serial # I can tell you what's left on the transferable warranty. When you step up to dual PC12-NSD or PB12-NSD you start to overtake the Plus/2 in addition to the advantages of dual subs of course."

I am fighting for a SVS sub largely because of the care and friendship that Jack puts into every person.

The Plus/2 in the 20 Hz tune will have almost 2X more output than a single PB12-NSD down to about 35 Hz. Below that frequency, the difference will start to narrow - 1.5X at 25 Hz, and 1.25X at 20 Hz.

The reason the Plus/2 doesn't hold the 2X advantage across the entire pass band is because the cabinet volume on a per driver basis is actually considerably lower than the PB12-NSD. So dual PB12-NSD would outgun a single Plus/2 in the 20 Hz tune <35 Hz.

Subjectively, a single Plus/2 walks all over a single PB12-NSD, since most of the slam/impact/pressure is derived above 30 Hz, where the Plus/2 has a large advantage.

Thank you very much for all the info!! Our beloved Jack Gilvey has already responed to my early AM email:

"The PB12-Plus/2 is certainly a killer sub and would have more output than a single PB12-NSD or dual PB10-NSD. At 2 yrs. old it should have the latest 12.3 drivers, and if you can get me a serial # I can tell you what's left on the transferable warranty. When you step up to dual PC12-NSD or PB12-NSD you start to overtake the Plus/2 in addition to the advantages of dual subs of course."

I am fighting for a SVS sub largely because of the care and friendship that Jack puts into every person.The current driver in the Plus line is the 12.4, but it was never put into the +/2. So the 12.3 is the most current in the +/2. The combined amp power of 2 NSDs is 650 Watts where the +/2 is 900 Watts. But the new systems may be more efficient and require less power. Two NSDs will be over your budget, but might be worth the extra cost.

I really appreciate all this GREAT info and details. THANKS!!!

I am getting really excited about getting the possibility of getting this used sub. I just requested the serial number from the sub, and discussed about getting the price lowered. I hope I won't be low balling him with requesting $800 shipped to my door. This thing does weigh over 140lbs!!

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-plus2.cfm

I really appreciate all this GREAT info and details. THANKS!!!

I am getting really excited about getting the possibility of getting this used sub. I just requested the serial number from the sub, and discussed about getting the price lowered. I hope I won't be low balling him with requesting $800 shipped to my door. This thing does weigh over 140lbs!!

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-plus2.cfmIf your experience is like mine, you will enjoy. When I cranked it up, it used to scare the hell out of me. In time, I realized it could take it and the apprehension subsided.

Is this with a premium finish or black poly? If it's a veneer, the amp also has a single band PEQ. The poly (base finish) does not.

If your experience is like mine, you will enjoy. When I cranked it up, it used to scare the hell out of me. In time, I realized it could take it and the apprehension subsided.

Is this with a premium finish or black poly? If it's a veneer, the amp also has a single band PEQ. The poly (base finish) does not.

It is the black poly finish. What is the "single band PEQ"??

When I tried to bargain down the price, this was his long resonponse:

"Hi, There are a few things to consider with this sub. The first is of course condition, did they have kids that have climbed all over it are they smokers what shape is the unit really in, this one is immaculate . Also there are earlier versions with the 12-2 drivers and those probably and more than likely have no warranty left. The next is the shipping, I would not want to take a chance with fedex or ups as from my experience they will surely damage or destroy it. This must be shipped on a pallet to insure you get it the same as I send it.

I would do 800 local pickup but that is not practical as you are 700 miles away. The serial is PBx12P229071152.I called SVS and this sub is under warranty til 2/20/2011. Now alot of people do not know how to setup a sub for music, the correct way incorporates it into the music and does not overbear the midrange or the rest of the sound spectrum it just compensates for a range that your mains cannot reach. In my system with a pair of polk lsi15's it was awesome on music just extending the bass a little lower. Now on movies this is a truely awesome sub and really where it shines explosions etc here come the neighbors. Also this finish is as durable as steel and you will never have to worry about it and I think very classy, the piano black is nice but watch out for chips and it can crack and the premium wood is nice alos but the wood finishes I have seen from svs dont seem to match the grains to well they look like the were made from 4 different trees. I guess alot of this is personal opinion and preference but I think is pretty close. Oh well let me know after you talk to the wife and we can go from there. Thanks."


Long story short, I request $850 shipped....and he agreed upon $875.

Pallet shipping is overkill IMO. Shipping it FAST, like with 2-day or 3-day really cuts down the chances of damage. So does using FedEx instead of UPS. UPS is known for more damage. Puting it on a pallet just jacks the price up by $50 more, and is not necessary. However it seems like a done deal, so hope you enjoy it.

Pallet shipping is overkill IMO. Shipping it FAST, like with 2-day or 3-day really cuts down the chances of damage. So does using FedEx instead of UPS. UPS is known for more damage. Puting it on a pallet just jacks the price up by $50 more, and is not necessary. However it seems like a done deal, so hope you enjoy it.Putting the big subs is safer and requires less handling...a good thing. The cost of shipping freight is slightly more expensive, but the couriers won't touch the big boys. It's outside their scope.

Well, I'm part of the SVS family again. I bought a PB-10nsd this morning for use as my “apartment living” sub which is replacing my huge DIY subs. I think the larger port and updated amp will be nice addition especially for the current introductory price.

Yea make sure he does not ship with UPS.

I didn't take a picture of the hole my box when it first arrived. Looked like someone kicked the box and left a nasty hole. Luckily the box was double boxed and the inner box had strong styrofoam around the sub. Me thinking, UPS can't damage it since it is a heavy big box, its not like they are going to throw it around. I thought wrong, it came with a big hole on the side.....

On the other hand congrats Matt34. Enjoy the sub !

Well, I'm part of the SVS family. I bought a PB-10nsd this morning for use as my “apartment living” sub which is replacing my huge DIY subs. I think the larger port and updated amp will be nice addition especially for the current introductory price.

Congrats on the new sub. That new PB-10NSD looks pretty mean. Interested to see what people think of the improvements as this was already a very good sub.

I'm about to take the plunge on a PC13-Ultra tonight. I hope they can somehow get it from Ohio to Nashville, TN by Friday afternoon...

It is the black poly finish. What is the "single band PEQ"??

When I tried to bargain down the price, this was his long resonponse:

"Hi, There are a few things to consider with this sub. The first is of course condition, did they have kids that have climbed all over it are they smokers what shape is the unit really in, this one is immaculate . Also there are earlier versions with the 12-2 drivers and those probably and more than likely have no warranty left. The next is the shipping, I would not want to take a chance with fedex or ups as from my experience they will surely damage or destroy it. This must be shipped on a pallet to insure you get it the same as I send it.

I would do 800 local pickup but that is not practical as you are 700 miles away. The serial is PBx12P229071152.I called SVS and this sub is under warranty til 2/20/2011. Now alot of people do not know how to setup a sub for music, the correct way incorporates it into the music and does not overbear the midrange or the rest of the sound spectrum it just compensates for a range that your mains cannot reach. In my system with a pair of polk lsi15's it was awesome on music just extending the bass a little lower. Now on movies this is a truely awesome sub and really where it shines explosions etc here come the neighbors. Also this finish is as durable as steel and you will never have to worry about it and I think very classy, the piano black is nice but watch out for chips and it can crack and the premium wood is nice alos but the wood finishes I have seen from svs dont seem to match the grains to well they look like the were made from 4 different trees. I guess alot of this is personal opinion and preference but I think is pretty close. Oh well let me know after you talk to the wife and we can go from there. Thanks."


Long story short, I request $850 shipped....and he agreed upon $875. That's a lot to read for a $25 discount.:)
I don't recall what the final price was. Mine was $1400 delivered new, so $875 is 37.5% off. I guess where I would be uncomfortable is you only have this guy's word on the condition. I guess this is the chance you take if you can't find a local bargain. Is this a PayPal deal?

The PEQ (Parametric Equalizer) allows you to reduce a single peak in your room. You can adjust the amount of the cut, the center frequency, and the width (frequency range) of the adjustment. There are many options to the on-board version.

Yea make sure he does not ship with UPS.

I didn't take a picture of the hole my box when it first arrived. Looked like someone kicked the box and left a nasty hole. Luckily the box was double boxed and the inner box had strong styrofoam around the sub. Me thinking, UPS can't damage it since it is a heavy big box, its not like they are going to throw it around. I thought wrong, it came with a big hole on the side.....

On the other hand congrats Matt34. Enjoy the sub !

I am pretty much convinced that any and all packages delivered to me by UPS are droped off the top of a tall loading dock at some point.
Everything of importance seems to be delivered in a distressed manner.
Including my SVS sub I bought from SVS a few years ago... and I live about a 30 minute drive from SVS headquarters.
I should have gone and picked it up in person, but was really busy at the time and decided to just pay to have it shipped to my house.
The box was half demolished with a gaping hole in the side smashed through BOTH boxes. The very back edge of the sub cabinet had a small blemish on it that I decided to just live with. UPS in my area just sucks dong... period.

Well, I'm part of the SVS family again. I bought a PB-10nsd this morning for use as my “apartment living” sub which is replacing my huge DIY subs. I think the larger port and updated amp will be nice addition especially for the current introductory price.You must have lived in a house at some time if you have a sub larger than an SVS in an apartment.:)

I'm about to take the plunge on a PC13-Ultra tonight. I hope they can somehow get it from Ohio to Nashville, TN by Friday afternoon...If you want it by Friday, you better go pick it up at the factory. It's only 550 miles each way.:)

You must have lived in a house at some time if you have a sub larger than an SVS in an apartment.:)

I'm in a house now getting ready to move to an apartment overseas. My DIY subs were 7cu/ft each.

If you want it by Friday, you better go pick it up at the factory. It's only 550 miles each way.:)

Hah, I actually considered it. I know the chances are slim to none that it will be here by the weekend, but I can hope. I want to wow all of my friends on Saturday.

Matt34 -- I hate to rub it in, but those DIY subs are "dinky":p. My old stereo speaker system (long since retired) had 9 cu/ft woofer cabinets, each (2 - 12" woofers/cabinet). The mid-range & tweeter cabinets added another ~4.5 cu/ft per channel.

I sure hope you enjoy your new PB-10NSD, it's a good performer for smaller rooms.

Anyone in the greater Houston area have their box and the included foam insert/standoffs for a 20-39PC+? If so, please PM me!

Can anyone help me out?

I'm looking to upgrade from a Paradigm PDR-10 and I think I have narrowed it down to these two. I'd say I'm 70/30 Music to HT. It's not that I use a lot less HT vs music but I'm just more critical with my music. I understand that the SB12 is probably more musical since it's sealed but I know the PB12 is a great sub and so I'm wondering if the PB12 is relatively close to the SB12 for music and is that much better than the SB12 for HT? Also, I live in a townhouse with neighbors on both sides so I'm not really looking for earth shattering bass.

I'm looking to upgrade from a Paradigm PDR-10 and I think I have narrowed it down to these two. I'd say I'm 70/30 Music to HT. It's not that I use a lot less HT vs music but I'm just more critical with my music. I understand that the SB12 is probably more musical since it's sealed but I know the PB12 is a great sub and so I'm wondering if the PB12 is relatively close to the SB12 for music and is that much better than the SB12 for HT?

I'd say go for the PB12. Having the extra output for movies is huge. And, don't forget that you can put plugs in the 12 and run it sealed (what I do with my PB13)

I'd echo Jason's recommendation for the PB12-NSD. Although I do not think the NSD series is tunable. I think that feature is just for the Plus and Ultra series of ported subs.

Anyone else having trouble getting on the SVS site?

Anyone else having trouble getting on the SVS site?

Yes. Getting a "failed to connect" error.

Wazzup with that?

I was having some trouble connecting to the site earlier, but for a short while the site loaded. It looked like a few images had been changed / tweaked, so maybe they're updating? I'm not sure why they would need to take the whole site down though...

I was having some trouble connecting to the site earlier, but for a short while the site loaded. It looked like a few images had been changed / tweaked, so maybe they're updating? I'm not sure why they would need to take the whole site down though...Taking a site down is not always voluntary.:)

Taking a site down is not always voluntary.:)

Yeah, hopefully whatever problems they are having are not too serious.

I'd echo Jason's recommendation for the PB12-NSD. Although I do not think the NSD series is tunable. I think that feature is just for the Plus and Ultra series of ported subs.

Oops....missed that. Quite right, the NSD is not tuneable, just the plus and ultra.

Still doesn't change my recommendation for you though.

I'm looking to upgrade from a Paradigm PDR-10 and I think I have narrowed it down to these two. I'd say I'm 70/30 Music to HT. It's not that I use a lot less HT vs music but I'm just more critical with my music. I understand that the SB12 is probably more musical since it's sealed but I know the PB12 is a great sub and so I'm wondering if the PB12 is relatively close to the SB12 for music and is that much better than the SB12 for HT? Also, I live in a townhouse with neighbors on both sides so I'm not really looking for earth shattering bass.

Well, considering the info you provided, I say go for the SB12. It should be a little better for music(sealed), and have more than enough impact for moderate volume HT use. One SB12 now, and another later if your living situation changes.;) Just another point of view...

Site is still down, sucks I was going to place an order yesterday.....

Sorry all, site's having some server issues. Will be back up ASAP. :)

Site is still down, sucks I was going to place an order yesterday.....

You can always call them ;).

Grrr....:( As a new SVS owner I went to the site last night to look at something and it redirected me to some unkown site and the computer started going bonkers! (yes bonkers is a very specific technical term btw.) I couldn't navigate away from that page either. Also couldn't close IE. Don't know if I picked up something some where else, or at that strange re-direct. Either way, the computer crashed. Had to do system recovery and lost a large number of pics that I hadn't backed up yet... :(

C'est la vie I guess.

On a positive note, local AV specialty shop coming to wire up the house shortly. Should be up and running with the SVS tongiht....

CG

Grrr....:( As a new SVS owner I went to the site last night to look at something and it redirected me to some unkown site and the computer started going bonkers! (yes bonkers is a very specific technical term btw.) I couldn't navigate away from that page either. Also couldn't close IE. Don't know if I picked up something some where else, or at that strange re-direct. Either way, the computer crashed. Had to do system recovery and lost a large number of pics that I hadn't backed up yet... :(

C'est la vie I guess.

On a positive note, local AV specialty shop coming to wire up the house shortly. Should be up and running with the SVS tongiht....

CG

No, something was definitely screwy. I'm on a mac, using safari and I got the message screen warning me I was visiting an unsafe site and appears to contain malware...

edit:
just checked and am still getting the same message.

No, something was definitely screwy. I'm on a mac, using safari and I got the message screen warning me I was visiting an unsafe site and appears to contain malware...

edit:
just checked and am still getting the same message.

someone got hacked....

edit.. i just got to the site using firefox on my mac...

someone got hacked....

I told Jack to stop watching porn on the work computer, but he doesn't listen. :rolleyes::D

The site has been restored; we apologize for any inconvenience.

hey guys, we apologize about the problems you faced. The website did have an issue that our ISP handled and should be back up and functioning properly now.

SVS,

is it true you guys are coming out with a sealed design? what price range is this aiming at?

SVS,

is it true you guys are coming out with a sealed design? what price range is this aiming at?

Do you mean like THIS (http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm)?

no i thought i read somewhere about a dual sealed design or something big. guess i was wrong

no i thought i read somewhere about a dual sealed design or something big. guess i was wrong

Oh, then you mean THIS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1107585). ;)

yep thats it......


i want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yep thats it......


i want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!The SB12+ is not new. Read THIS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1107585&highlight=svs+sealed+sub) if you want some insight into what SVS may be coming out with in the next year.

The SB12+ is not new. Read THIS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1107585&highlight=svs+sealed+sub) if you want some insight into what SVS may be coming out with in the next year.



dont think you clicked the right link I was reffering to the SB13-Plus and the SB16-Ultra

dont think you clicked the right link I was reffering to the SB13-Plus and the SB16-UltraYeah, I did. Too many THIS' and not enough THAT's.:)

I had a 7 year old 25-31PCi damaged from a lightning strike and sent an email around 8:00 AM Sunday (of a holiday weekend) looking for advice on how to go about getting it repaired. I received an email less than an hour later with testing procedures and ended up corresponding up until almost 8:30 PM. (Did I mention it was a holiday weekend?) Turns out the amp is fried and I ordered a new one this morning.

Amazing customer service.

I don't know of anybody that provides customer service like SVS.

I don't know of anybody that provides customer service like SVS.

SVS, OPPO, EMOTIVA... I'm making a list, though it is short. :)

The new PB10

http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/pb10nsd/new_pb10nsd_back_768.jpg

Interesting back pannel.

The new PB10

http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/pb10nsd/new_pb10nsd_back_768.jpg

Interesting back pannel.

What's interesting about it? :confused:

yeah, is that different than what is on the svs site for the pb10??

What's interesting about it? :confused:

http://www.dvdplaza.fi/galleria/data/743/035.jpg

Here's the PB10 as it was up until just recently.

eightninesuited, can you please post the differences and/or upgrades with "the new PB10". Thanks!

eightninesuited, can you please post the differences and/or upgrades with "the new PB10". Thanks!

Difference include a re-tuned BASH amp that features a variable crossover with bypass and defeatable auto-on with high and low level inputs. A new 10" aluminum cone NSD driver and newly designed High flow 3.5" port. Looks to be basically an upgraded product all the way around.

The previous amp had one LFE input with no internal crossover available. Will be interesting to see any performance difference. If it's anything compared to the 12" NSD after it's last upgrade it..which I'm guessing it will be, it should be a worthy difference.

It looks like they added speaker level inputs, line level inputs and a crossover dial. The old just had an LFE input, gain and phase I believe.

eightninesuited, can you please post the differences and/or upgrades with "the new PB10". Thanks!

3'5 port instead of 3"
New 10" Driver
BASH amp now 325w instead of 300w
Speaker inputs, L/R inputs instead of single input
Crossover (PB10 never had one)

http://www.svsound.com/pix/pb12_nsd_amp_hires.jpg

These changes makes the PB10 slightly more powerful and a serious threat to the PB12 - which had undergone a new 12" driver change already.

Now, with the same features as the PB12, if you have a small to medium sized room, save your money.

I already have one. I'm picking up a second.

Wow, so it seems that the PB-10 has the EXACT same amp as the PB-12. SVS needs to give a package deal on the PB-10s when bought in pairs!! I don't really like the stereo LFE RCA inputs. I have that on my Velodyne, and it forced me to buy a Y-splitter....as with the Velodyne, it gives a 2-3db jump in input when a Y-splitter is used for the LFE input.

You don't need to use a Y splitter with the PB10. As you said it does increase the input signal but that's a non issue when the sub is calibrated to the mains, same results either way.

Using a Y splitter can help in certain instances where the input signal is to low to activate the auto on/off feature. These instances are extremely rare though and I've never heard of any SVS amps having that problem.

They should have discontinued the PB10 and called the new one something else.
I almost feel cheated that the new one is so much better, and suposedly the same model as the PB10 I already own. I'm smart enough to know better, but you can't help thinking it.

You think the PB10 is different from the old one? What about the PB12-Plus compared with the old version of the same name?

such is life my friend.

it happens with everything. esp with electronics.. think about how the SB guys are going to feel when svs releases the new hotness SB13 and SB16

I'll bet the cost of the SB13 and SB16 will be a fair bit higher than the SB12.

They should have discontinued the PB10 and called the new one something else.
I almost feel cheated that the new one is so much better, and supposedly the same model as the PB10 I already own. I'm smart enough to know better, but you can't help thinking it.I have always had the impression the PB10 was an over achiever. It performs better than the sum of it's parts or what the specs would indicate. Even Craig Chase's brother and others in his speaker shop were impressed with the PB10 back in the ISD days. Anecdotal comments would indicate it is one of the best, if not the best, 10" sub available.

I think the PB10 driver always looked like a smaller version of the Plus driver than the ISD/NSD drivers. Now they have finally upgraded with an NSD looking driver. Whether this version will perform better than its predecessors remains to be seen. Adding more inputs/outputs to the amp doesn't add performance, but 25 more watts may. And the new NSD-A driver and larger port may help. It will also have a $50 higher price.

I have always had the impression the PB10 was an over achiever. It performs better than the sum of it's parts or what the specs would indicate. Even Craig Chase's brother and others in his speaker shop were impressed with the PB10 back in the ISD days. Anecdotal comments would indicate it is one of the best, if not the best, 10" sub available.

I think the PB10 driver always looked like a smaller version of the Plus driver than the ISD/NSD drivers. Now they have finally upgraded with an NSD looking driver. Whether this version will perform better than its predecessors remains to be seen. Adding more inputs/outputs to the amp doesn't add performance, but 25 more watts may. And the new NSD-A driver and larger port may help. It will also have a $50 higher price.

Don't get me wrong. I agree about the performance of the PB10-(ISD). I love mine.:)

So I was worried that my 20x16x10 living room which is very open to the kitchen (3200 sq. ft not counting kitchen volume) would be alot of space to be filled by my new SVS PB12+. Well.... all worries are gone. I am completely blown away on how well this sub takes care of business in the space I have.

Granted, this is my first home theater set up I have owned, none the less I am soooo pleased with my choice of sub. Very very pleased with the performance I have for the money spent. The sub performs very well in my application.

My family really enjoys it as well.

Thanks SVS.

So I was worried that my 20x16x10 living room which is very open to the kitchen (3200 sq. ft not counting kitchen volume) would be alot of space to be filled by my new SVS PB12+. Well.... all worries are gone. I am completely blown away on how well this sub takes care of business in the space I have.

Granted, this is my first home theater set up I have owned, none the less I am soooo pleased with my choice of sub. Very very pleased with the performance I have for the money spent. The sub performs very well in my application.

My family really enjoys it as well.

Thanks SVS.2 or 3 more and you'll be set.:)

I got my PC13-Ultra yesterday. I haven't had much time to play with it or dial it in, but I am more than impressed in the small amount of time I've had to mess with it. Hopefully I will get some time tomorrow to really test it out :).

I have the PB10, new owner. i dont want to read through this whole thread, but can someone tell me what settings i should put on the back of the sub? as in gain, crossover, and if i should enable/disable on the 2 switches?

I have the PB10, new owner. i dont want to read through this whole thread, but can someone tell me what settings i should put on the back of the sub? as in gain, crossover, and if i should enable/disable on the 2 switches?

Read the manual.

I have the PB10, new owner. i dont want to read through this whole thread, but can someone tell me what settings i should put on the back of the sub? as in gain, crossover, and if i should enable/disable on the 2 switches?

IF you have a receiver that calibrates your speakers for you (ex. Audyssey), it is best to often bypass(disable) your crossover and set your gain to zero (or disable if possible). At that point run your calibration system on your receiver. The only time you might have to tweek the gain is if the reciever dials in the sub at a MAX amount (ex: -10 or +10). At that point, increase or decrease the gain on the sub....re-run the calibration, and hopefully the gain on the receiver is more in the middle. Also, it is good to test the best placement options for the sub. For more info on this, back out of the SVS forum and do a search on sub calibration. Best wishes and enjoy!

These changes makes the PB10 slightly more powerful and a serious threat to the PB12 - which had undergone a new 12" driver change already.

Now, with the same features as the PB12, if you have a small to medium sized room, save your money.



The new port allows about 2-3 dB (25-40%) more acoustic output at the same distortion level from ~20-30Hz (where the port is most active).

The PB12-NSD is still about 50% more powerful overall (the spread down deep was greater previously) due to its bigger cabinet, larger port, and larger driver/greater displacement.

I have the PB10, new owner. i dont want to read through this whole thread, but can someone tell me what settings i should put on the back of the sub? as in gain, crossover, and if i should enable/disable on the 2 switches?

As noted, it's usually best to let the AVR take care of bass-management. Set Gain 1/3-1/2, disable the crossover, set Phase to 0, then calibrate.

Onilink3089, let me re-phrase my advice....when here on the SVS thread, your best bet is to always listen to Jack G!!

Jack, any info if there will be another update/upgrade on the PB-12? I wish it had a little more juice in the amp department.

Hi fellow SVS owners.

I purchased a 2039 PCI last year and got busy with life before I could get around to asking this question.

I don't know much about subs / audio terms but I have checked out the various guides on this forum.

During certain movies with fast heavy bass, the sub sounds very un-natural. Like it's bottoming out or something. While I don't know much about subs and audio in general, I've had high end car audio setups all my life. So I do know what accurate, tight, clean bass sounds like. Something is definitely not right with my SVS. Like I said it's a very un-natural sound. Kind of like - Whop. Whop, Whop.

Given the high praise for SVS subs I have to think I have something set up wrong.

Can someone please tell me what I should set the dials on the back to as a starting point?

Here is what they currently are:

AVR: Onkyo TX-SR706

Crossover - Disabled
Phase - 4th line from 0 or around the 9:30 (clock face)
Gain - 6th line from min or around 1:30 (clock face)

AVR Settings:

LPF of LFE: 120Hz

Thanks in advance!

Hi fellow SVS owners.

I purchased a 2039 PCI last year and got busy with life before I could get around to asking this question.

I don't know much about subs / audio terms but I have checked out the various guides on this forum.

During certain movies with fast heavy bass, the sub sounds very un-natural. Like it's bottoming out or something. While I don't know much about subs and audio in general, I've had high end car audio setups all my life. So I do know what accurate, tight, clean bass sounds like. Something is definitely not right with my SVS. Like I said it's a very un-natural sound. Kind of like - Whop. Whop, Whop.

Given the high praise for SVS subs I have to think I have something set up wrong.

Can someone please tell me what I should set the dials on the back to as a starting point?

Here is what they currently are:

AVR: Onkyo TX-SR706

Crossover - Disabled
Phase - 4th line from 0 or around the 9:30 (clock face)
Gain - 6th line from min or around 1:30 (clock face)

AVR Settings:

LPF of LFE: 120Hz

Thanks in advance!

I assume you have run the Audyssey setup in the 706?
Maybe you should redo it. There are a couple of detailed guides in the AVR forums here about how to get the very best calibration from your Audyssey system. I would find it and follow the instructions to the "T". There's even a HUGE thread dedicated just to Audyssey. I would start with that.
Set the volume on the back of the sub to no more than 12:00, probably more like 10:00. Keeep the crossover disabled, and turn the phase down to zero. Carefully rerun the Audyssey and then follow-up with a SPL meter.

After all of that, if you are still hearing things you don't like, then start further troubleshooting.

The new port allows about 2-3 dB (25-40%) more acoustic output at the same distortion level from ~20-30Hz (where the port is most active).

The PB12-NSD is still about 50% more powerful overall (the spread down deep was greater previously) due to its bigger cabinet, larger port, and larger driver/greater displacement.

Out of curiosity, has the new PB10-NSD retained the same tune as the older one with the smaller port, or has it shifted slightly higher? I would expect it to have gotten a bit higher with the larger port, all other things equal, but it's always possible you guys found room in the enclosure to lengthen the port for the newer model and keep the tune the same :).

I assume you have run the Audyssey setup in the 706?
Maybe you should redo it. There are a couple of detailed guides in the AVR forums here about how to get the very best calibration from your Audyssey system. I would find it and follow the instructions to the "T". There's even a HUGE thread dedicated just to Audyssey. I would start with that.
Set the volume on the back of the sub to no more than 12:00, probably more like 10:00. Keeep the crossover disabled, and turn the phase down to zero. Carefully rerun the Audyssey and then follow-up with a SPL meter.

After all of that, if you are still hearing things you don't like, then start further troubleshooting.

Could you elaborate more about exactly what to do with a SPL meter after you run Audyessy. I know it's supposed to have someting to do with setting db levels. I'm new to SPL meters, I haven't even bought one yet. I have read up some about setting sound levels but if you could explain how you use it I would appreciated it. Thanks.

Onilink3089, let me re-phrase my advice....when here on the SVS thread, your best bet is to always listen to Jack G!!

Jack, any info if there will be another update/upgrade on the PB-12? I wish it had a little more juice in the amp department.

Aww, you did fine! Save for the "set your gain to 0" part. That makes for a very quiet subwoofer. ;)

It's tempting to wish for more amp power given how many little subs out there advertise such high wattage. Still, amp power is only one part of the equation and needs to be balanced with driver, cabinet, porting, etc. A large, ported sub like the PB12 needs far less power than a smaller one, and using less power to achieve a certain level is always a good thing from a compression standpoint. As it is, the PB12-NSD has superb bandwidth uniformity and appreciably upping amp power would call for a beefier driver and more porting to keep up. We call that the PB12-Plus. :)

Hi fellow SVS owners.

I purchased a 2039 PCI last year and got busy with life before I could get around to asking this question.

I don't know much about subs / audio terms but I have checked out the various guides on this forum.

During certain movies with fast heavy bass, the sub sounds very un-natural. Like it's bottoming out or something. While I don't know much about subs and audio in general, I've had high end car audio setups all my life. So I do know what accurate, tight, clean bass sounds like. Something is definitely not right with my SVS. Like I said it's a very un-natural sound. Kind of like - Whop. Whop, Whop.

Given the high praise for SVS subs I have to think I have something set up wrong.

Can someone please tell me what I should set the dials on the back to as a starting point?

Here is what they currently are:

AVR: Onkyo TX-SR706

Crossover - Disabled
Phase - 4th line from 0 or around the 9:30 (clock face)
Gain - 6th line from min or around 1:30 (clock face)

AVR Settings:

LPF of LFE: 120Hz

Thanks in advance!

Hi!

As usual, Dave's advice is right on. If you still get weird noises, though, feel free to drop me a line at techsupport@svsound.com and we'll figure it out. :)

Ordered an SB-12plus Rosewood to go with a 2 channel system. I like the idea of it being a sealed system and the amount of adjustments should make it a very musical sub.

Can those that own this sub give me some feedback about anything I should know or do to make it sound its best?

Out of curiosity, has the new PB10-NSD retained the same tune as the older one with the smaller port, or has it shifted slightly higher? I would expect it to have gotten a bit higher with the larger port, all other things equal, but it's always possible you guys found room in the enclosure to lengthen the port for the newer model and keep the tune the same :).

It's tuned slightly higher, 21-22Hz. The revised model will still hit 20Hz easily in-room but has more useful output in the 20-30Hz band due to the re-tune and better airflow.

I had more time to test out my PC13 Ultra last night. It's in a room that's a little over 5000 cu ft, so it has its work cut out for it. Overall, I was VERY impressed. I'm coming from a $150 Sony sub so there is quite a bit of difference. I honestly think the accurate nature of the PC13 is going to take some getting used to. I'm accustomed to bass being very boomy / in-your-face and the PC13 is definitely NOT boomy or in-your-face. I'm running it around 3db hotter than my other speakers and it integrates perfectly. Unless there is truly loud/deep bass I don't even notice the sub is there; however, the Darla scene from Finding Nemo awoke so many rattles throughout my bonus room that I doubt I'll ever be able to fix them all.

I really need to get REW setup so I can determine just how badly my room affects the response of the sub. I ran a few sweeps last night and I can definitely detect some peaks and nulls, but I'm not sure just how "bad" they are. I also need to experiment with room placement a bit.

I had more time to test out my PC13 Ultra last night. It's in a room that's a little over 5000 cu ft, so it has its work cut out for it. Overall, I was VERY impressed. I'm coming from a $150 Sony sub so there is quite a bit of difference. I honestly think the accurate nature of the PC13 is going to take some getting used to. I'm accustomed to bass being very boomy / in-your-face and the PC13 is definitely NOT boomy or in-your-face. I'm running it around 3db hotter than my other speakers and it integrates perfectly. Unless there is truly loud/deep bass I don't even notice the sub is there; however, the Darla scene from Finding Nemo awoke so many rattles throughout my bonus room that I doubt I'll ever be able to fix them all.

I really need to get REW setup so I can determine just how badly my room affects the response of the sub. I ran a few sweeps last night and I can definitely detect some peaks and nulls, but I'm not sure just how "bad" they are. I also need to experiment with room placement a bit.

Congrats on the new sub - what an upgrade! You're right that it will take you a little while to get used to the new "accurate" sound. A sub is truly doing its job when you DON'T notice it, so it sounds like the PC13 is integrating very well in your system. Keep the impressions coming, and let us know how calibration and placement go :).

So I was worried that my 20x16x10 living room which is very open to the kitchen (3200 sq. ft not counting kitchen volume) would be alot of space to be filled by my new SVS PB12+. Well.... all worries are gone. I am completely blown away on how well this sub takes care of business in the space I have.

Granted, this is my first home theater set up I have owned, none the less I am soooo pleased with my choice of sub. Very very pleased with the performance I have for the money spent. The sub performs very well in my application.

My family really enjoys it as well.

Thanks SVS.

Ditto !!! i even have a smaller room open to other areas (14x15), and the SB12+ (sealed) was more than enough for my needs !. i have a feeling most ppl on this sub forum are deaf :p

Hey guys decided to go with SVS.

Ordered an SVS PC12-NSD Thursday. UPS says it should be here July 15th! Can't wait.

Hey guys decided to go with SVS.

Ordered an SVS PC12-NSD Thursday. UPS says it should be here July 15th! Can't wait.

that's the one i want. let us know how you like it.

It's tuned slightly higher, 21-22Hz. The revised model will still hit 20Hz easily in-room but has more useful output in the 20-30Hz band due to the re-tune and better airflow.

I am sure you may have mentioned this before, but what is the PB12-NSD tuned at?

After watching a movie last night I realized that the best bang for the buck and best HT SPL results would come from 2 NSD speakers....vs a single PB-12 Plus. Two PB12-NSDs would be over my budget...but i was curious how much of a difference it would be compared to two PB10-NSDs. My room is only 15x15 and has one wall opened to a kitchen that is 10x17.

The PB12-NSD is tuned to ~17Hz. There are current 2m ground-plane FR plots on each sub's web page if you want to see what the difference looks like. The difference in dynamics/output (50% more for the PB12-NSD as noted) would be more noticeable than that of extension, though. Dual PB12-NSD are even more potent than a single PB12-Plus.

The PB12-NSD is tuned to ~17Hz. There are current 2m ground-plane FR plots on each sub's web page if you want to see what the difference looks like. The difference in dynamics/output (50% more for the PB12-NSD as noted) would be more noticeable than that of extension, though. Dual PB12-NSD are even more potent than a single PB12-Plus.

Thanks. Those charts did show a lot. It is interesting that the SPLs on the PB12-Plus looks a little shy compared to the PB12-NSD.

I was bummed that I missed the opportunity on the PB12-plus/2, but then I thought the 2 NSD10s would probably match its output and give a better room response (also due to poor positioning of a single). I now realize that 2 PB12-NSDs should yield MUCH higher SPLs than the PB12-plus....and the
plus/2(albeit 2 12" drivers, but smaller total sub volume compared to 2 NSD-12s)

Hey guys, New to the forum and I had a question regarding subs.
I've decided on an SVS box sub. But not sure which one I should get. I have a 21X13 dedicated HT thats 100% use is for movies.

I'm open to getting two if need be.. Any assistance would be great!

Hey guys, New to the forum and I had a question regarding subs.
I've decided on an SVS box sub. But not sure which one I should get. I have a 21X13 dedicated HT thats 100% use is for movies.

I'm open to getting two if need be.. Any assistance would be great!

Do u have a budget and care about finishes?

Budget is really not an issue, however I'd like to get the most sub for the money and save what I can.

Finish is a non issue as well

If budget is not an issue, then the Ulra or a pair is well worth the investment. If that's too much sticker shock, then a pair of either the NSD or Plus will be plenty for that room.

If budget is not an issue, then the Ulra or a pair is well worth the investment. If that's too much sticker shock, then a pair of either the NSD or Plus will be plenty for that room.

+1 ...agreed

Thanks. Those charts did show a lot. It is interesting that the SPLs on the PB12-Plus looks a little shy compared to the PB12-NSD.



Those charts aren't intended to represent max output, just FR.

I wondering how much does the Pb12-nsd weigh

60 lbs

excuse I meant pb12-nsd

74 lbs

All the specs and info is readily available at svsound.com ;)

Do sub companys post their subs max output?? I know it gets controversial with those type of measurements. I have read threads commenting on the craigs-sub ratings, and how it doesn't accurately measure a subs output.

Do sub companies post their subs max output?? I know it gets controversial with those type of measurements. I have read threads commenting on the craigsub ratings, and how it doesn't accurately measure a subs output.The companies usually have nothing to gain by posting all the performance graphs on their subs. You know they know what they are. Mostly, they show the flattest response they can achieve in a GP test. We still have to rely on AVTALK, Illka, Tom N., and others to run the whole battery of charts. If you've been around after the newest tests are revealed, you would know why OEMs won't publish this information. People pick apart every little nuance in the graphs and proclaim their sub the winner because it is better than others in one category or even a part of one category. This is like asking car makers to publish the torque curve on their production cars. You have to wait for Car & Driver to do this. To me, having pro reviewers is the best means of getting performance published as a good, knowledgeable reviewer will put the numbers into context.

Hey guys, my sub came yesterday (a day early!) Here is some initial impressions I gave over at blu-ray.com last night.

Well I didn't get to watch a movie tonight. There was a bad thunderstorm with some massive lightning. So to be on the safe side I unplugged everything. It's just sitting in there taunting me now. lol I'll give a few impressions from the little I've heard.

Serenity (Blu-ray):

JBL PSW-1000: My old sub would make my chair vibrate a little bit and was "boomy" and made some weird port noise. It was all I knew though so it sounded good to me. I now understand the difference between boomy and clean bass .

SVS PC12-NSD: When the ship's engine kicks in on chapter 3 it is so cool. I've never experienced anything like it. Its like someone kicks you in the chest when the engines kick in. I felt like I was inside the ship with the crew. All the little explosions and gunshots have impact to them now, I can feel them. All of this is done without annoying port noise also. I can't believe I've been watching all these years without this thing. One of my first thoughts was I wonder what it would sound like with two of these, one on each side of the chair. lol It would probably levitate the chair off the floor b/c it shakes the hell out of it now.
I let my friend sit through the same scene and he ended up watching about 30 minutes of the movie lol. He said it sounded better than the theater and with the chair practically moving it was like a Disney ride.

I ran my old sub about 10 db hot, but this one kicks its ass! The SVS is calibrated at 75 db same as my speakers and it puts out tons more impact than my 10-year old JBL at 85 db. I couldn't imagine running this thing hot.

I'll be glad when 5 pm comes tomorrow so I can try out some different placements in the room and finally watch a full movie. I think I'm more excited now that I have it than when I didn't lol.

Thanks to all the posters who touted SVS in this thread, you guys convinced me with all of your good reviews and comments and I was not disappointed. I can say without a doubt this will probably be my best HT purchase ever made. Cheers

Here is some unpacking and setup pics here (http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=brokenthumb&folderid=2101)

Hi guys!

I am about to purchase a surround-setup for my living room and I want it to get the best out of bluray music and movies, do a good job with SACD/Jazzy stuff and be good allrounders.

I am considering this setup:

SVS STS01 + SCS + SBS01 surrounds
2 x PC12 NSD

What receiver would you recommend? What brand is best for music/HT, in that order. I won't be getting a poweramp so I guess I need a bit of power from the receiver.

Hi guys!

I am about to purchase a surround-setup for my living room and I want it to get the best out of bluray music and movies, do a good job with SACD/Jazzy stuff and be good allrounders.

I am considering this setup:

SVS STS01 + SCS + SBS01 surrounds
2 x PC12 NSD

What receiver would you recommend? What brand is best for music/HT, in that order. I won't be getting a poweramp so I guess I need a bit of power from the receiver.

That should be a nice speaker suite. I've had good luck with Denon and Yamaha in the past. You may want to post this question over in the electronics forum though as a lot of gearheads hang out over there. Make sure to give your budget and what features you are looking for (Dolby volume, need x amount of HDMI, etc)

Hi guys!

I am about to purchase a surround-setup for my living room and I want it to get the best out of bluray music and movies, do a good job with SACD/Jazzy stuff and be good allrounders.

I am considering this setup:

SVS STS01 + SCS + SBS01 surrounds
2 x PC12 NSD

What receiver would you recommend? What brand is best for music/HT, in that order. I won't be getting a poweramp so I guess I need a bit of power from the receiver.

Great choice!! I think you will be very satisfied. I think an Onkyo 607 will fit the bill very nicely (7.2);)

hey guys,

I have a Paradigm PW-2100 and am looking to upgrade, do you think the PC12-NSD would be a noticeable upgrade in SQ and output? my current sub has a 500W RMS Class-D amp. all opinions and suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I am replacing a 10 year old "dead" Paradigm PS-1000 with an SVS PB10-NSD. My room is about 1,650 Cu. Ft. The Paradigm, while working was quite boomy. I am looking forward to clean base output and have only heard good things about the SVS models. Almost went with the 12 but think it would have been too large for my room and frankly probably more bass than I need.

I am really excited about this upgrade.

RA

Does the SVS PC-12 Plus deliver a palpable movie-watching experience?

I stopped by a local high-end dealer yesterday and watched the surprise attack scene from Master & Commander. The sub installed in the demo room was a front-firing 10 inch from Phase Technology. When the cannons fired, I could feel it -- in my chest and along the hairs on my arms and the back of my neck. When the crew is running about topside, it sounded and felt like people were literally stomping about overhead.

So a question for all you PC-12 owners: is the sub capable of delivering this type of visceral experience in a moderate size room?

My home theater gear is installed in a 13'x16'x7.5' section of a 26'x16 basement. So there's about 3,100 cubic feet to be reckoned with.

I've attached a pic in lieu of another 1,000 words.

RMcR,

Without knowing all the details about the dealer's demo room(room, treatments, equipment), its not really possible to make any kind of comparison.

RMcR,

Without knowing all the details about the dealer's demo room(room, treatments, equipment), its not really possible to make any kind of comparison.True, but generally for an HT application the 12" sub in a bigger box is going to offer a more visceral experience. Certainly it will extend further.

The PC12-Plus will have significantly more clean output capability than the 10" Phase Technology subwoofer from 40-80 Hz. Below 40 Hz, the PC12-Plus will simply walk away - bigger cabinet, much more porting, larger longer stroke woofer, and more power. At 17-25 Hz, the advantage will be 4-6X the clean output.

3000 cubes is fine for a single Plus at moderately loud to loud volumes and you'll get plenty of pressure/impact in the smaller HT section of the room. If you want Dolby Reference (i.e., at/near 120 dB bass peaks) then plan on duals, but that playback level is not needed for a satisfying HT experience.

Please contact us in Tech Support or Sales if you need further guidance - thanks.

Thanks, Ed and Ron. Would a single PC-13 Ultra be preferable to dual PC-12s? I tend to keep the volume between 60-65 dB. I've only been cranking it to 75-85 dB to stress test my current system as I contemplate the upgrade. I'm looking for bass you can feel, not a YouTube-worthy show of force.

Hi, I am trying to configure a 7.1 system. One of my potential choices is SVS STS-01 or SCS-01(M) as the front three. For the surrounds, I wonder if I can pair SVS fronts with some bi/di speakers. Particularly, I am looking at Monitor Audio's BRFX (http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/products/bronze-br/brfx/specification). Do any of you have tried this? Do you recommend this? Thanks for any help.

Hi, I am trying to configure a 7.1 system. One of my potential choices is SVS STS-01 or SCS-01(M) as the front three. For the surrounds, I wonder if I can pair SVS fronts with some bi/di speakers. Particularly, I am looking at Monitor Audio's BRFX (http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/products/bronze-br/brfx/specification). Do any of you have tried this? Do you recommend this? Thanks for any help.

You may get more help if you post this in the SVS thread in the "Speaker" area, and not in the subwoofer area.

Although this an SVS thread, it is geared towards their subs. Best wishes in seeking your answers:)

Thanks, Ed and Ron. Would a single PC-13 Ultra be preferable to dual PC-12s? I tend to keep the volume between 60-65 dB. I've only been cranking it to 75-85 dB to stress test my current system as I contemplate the upgrade. I'm looking for bass you can feel, not a YouTube-worthy show of force.PC12s or PC12+s ? The Ultra is a different animal and while dual Pluses will have overall more output, in your room, I'd still go with an Ultra. I went from dual Pluses(not 12.4v) to an PB13 in a room slightly larger than yours. It provides reference level bass in my system, but with a definite sound quality upgrade, faster attack, better midbass punch and no overhang. Dual PC12s might have a slight advantage somewhere in the FR to an U13 (maybe), but won't extend as low or be as articulate. If you don't crank it, any of the SVS subs will be fine in your space, but you get what you pay for. The U13 will sound the best at any volume.

Just finished installing my new SVS SB12 Plus. I love it and appreciate some of you encouraging me on this "small footprint" sub. OK, admittedly, I am not interested in re-producing a Sherman tank blast, or its equivalent. My opinion is admittedly subjective, but for those that feel that this sub is way too underpowered or inadequate, I say have at something that might crack your walls. This SB12 Plus gets more than loud and low enough for me and I'll guess about 95% of movie fans.
My point here is this: Do not necessarily dismiss this "little" sub unless you are familiar with already "crushing/real loud" subs. I have yet to completely tweak this sub, but already, it really hits nicely, and cleanly.
One very satisfied customer !;)

Well, I thought I bottomed out my PC12NSD today while I watched Iron Man (Blu-Ray). I actually got up and turned down the volume on the sub because the sound was to distracting to enjoy.....After the movie I went ahead and checked my receiver to make sure there wasn't anything there that might be causing the problem. Turns out my AVR decided to change several of the setting, most importantly in this case that my fronts (LSI15s) had been set to Large. Went through and adjusted all the settings to my most recent preference (and set the memory guard!) then replayed several of the scenes. Unfortunately I don't remember which scene(s) exactly caused the problem but running through several minutes in many of the chapters did NOT recreate the problem.
Overall i am still VERY pleased with this sub and continue to debate if I will get the PB12+ when I actually move into my theater.
My Theater will actually be a bit smaller than the current room I have everything setup in, and it will be closed off to the rest of the house.
I am assuming (hoping) it's the lack of pressure that makes it so I don't really feel the bass in my chest. When the whole house is moving/rumbling it's hard to believe that it's not producing hits with that kind of authority-- or have I just become desensitized to it?

ps. this was the first movie that I had to put my subwoofer back in it's place ;P It only moved about 6-10 inches, but still made us giggle a bit at our listening level.

Well my PB 13 Started to hum pretty loud and its always been whisper quiet. It was so loud you could actualy see and feel the driver moving so I turned it off and waited for it to be off completely and unpluged my sub cable going to the receiver hoping for some reason it went bad even though I thought that was very unlikely. Turned it back on and the hum was still there : ( so was thinking maybe it was the power outlet as I reached back to check the connection I felt the back of the amp and it was warmer than normal and I wasnt even playing a movie and had everything turned down while I was watching shark week on discovery channel lol . Anyway I pushed on the back of the amp and it got quiet :confused: the hum wasnt completely gone but almost and then when I took the pressure off the amp with my finger it went wright back to the loud hum. Any suggestions ? I am going to contact SVS being that i've only had the sub a few months . Also i've noticed when I had the sub in the auto mode whitch I've always have and the red light is on were its just been idle no signal the back of the amp has been a lot warmer than normal. Well thought i'd throw it out there and see if anyone has had this problem : (

It sure sounds as though your amp is crapping out. Call the guys and they will probably have a new amp out to you in a couple of days.

It sure sounds as though your amp is crapping out. Call the guys and they will probably have a new amp out to you in a couple of days.

Ya thats what im thinking to the amp is taking a dump . The only thing that makes me feel half good is I know SVS has customer service thats second to none for sure .

The Factor

Sounds like a board came loose on the amp and is vibrating against its post. SVS should be able to take care of you, sorry to hear about the problems.

This is off the subject but I recently recieved my PB10-NSD and due to my limited space I have placed it right beside (within an inch or two) of another subwoofer which is not being used. Will that produce any vibrations in the un-used sub being so close. Also they are sitting side by side with their back panel towards the wall. I have both subs placed on damping platforms. Appreciate any replys. While I'm posting I was also wondering if anybody has ever used a Antimode 8033 with any of these SVS subs and what were their results. Again thanks.

I asked this in the dedicated PC thread (with no true result), but has anyone actually layed a SVS cylindrical sub on its side and used it. I know SVS said it is ok, but I wanted to hear about it first hand from someone that has tried it.

The Factor

Sounds like a board came loose on the amp and is vibrating against its post. SVS should be able to take care of you, sorry to hear about the problems.

Thanks and cant wait to get her going again but i've got good news :D

I contacted SVS late sunday night and by 5am monday morning "today" after a few questions my new amp is on the way Hows that for customer service !!! SVS you rock and thankyou so much :D

I contacted SVS late sunday night and by 5am monday morning "today" after a few questions my new amp is on the way Hows that for customer service !!! SVS you rock and thankyou so much :D

Please take a lot of pictures when you replace the amp and upload them here if you would.

I have had mine on back order...can't wait to receive it for my duel Ultra's.

YPlease take a lot of pictures when you replace the amp and upload them here if you would.

Want pictures of the new amp and old one along with install pics i'm guessing ?

Y

Want pictures of the. New amp. And old one along with install pics I'm guessing ?

Yes sir...

Yes sir...

Ok but thats a tall order :D

I am in the hunt for a new sub. Could you give me some advice. My room is about 22LX15W with 8.5 foot ceilings. We sit on the width so the plasma is 15 ft in front of us. am looking for sub with some impressive bass for %95 movies and 5% music. Nice low rumbling bass. My budget is 600 :rolleyes: new or used but i might have to save if I am not in the range. Now what is better box or sonotube? THX

I am in the hunt for a new sub. Could you give me some advice. My room is about 22LX15W with 8.5 foot ceilings. We sit on the width so the plasma is 15 ft in front of us. am looking for sub with some impressive bass for %95 movies and 5% music. Nice low rumbling bass. My budget is 600 :rolleyes: new or used but i might have to save if I am not in the range. Now what is better box or sonotube? THX

SVS PB-NSD 12. With shipping it might be a bit over $600.

Now what is better box or sonotube? THX


Typically you can't tell the difference between the box and tube- the specs are basically identical, and SVS generally tells us they are the same... the main reason for the two options is what footprint you want/need.

I have the tube.

I am in the hunt for a new sub. Could you give me some advice. My room is about 22LX15W with 8.5 foot ceilings. We sit on the width so the plasma is 15 ft in front of us. am looking for sub with some impressive bass for %95 movies and 5% music. Nice low rumbling bass. My budget is 600 :rolleyes: new or used but i might have to save if I am not in the range. Now what is better box or sonotube? THX

I've had the SVS PB12nsd and that would be a great sub for you, I really liked mine and the only reason I went with the Ultra was because I was greedy:D Seriously that PB12 hits hard and is great for movies and music. If I had to get another sub and had a 600 dollar budget I'd get another one no dought and no hesitation what so ever !!!

have an SVS-PB-12-Plus/2.

My question is about the subsonic filter. I have my sub set to 16hz tone but there is also the option of bypass. What does bypass do ?



This is my post from another thread - Perhaps SVS owners can help me here.

I am having problems doing this calibration right. It seems when i run the test tones from the SMS-1 that the lower frequencies from around 30hz to 15hz are actually a good 10db higher than the frequencies from around the 50 to 80hz region and i am having issues with getting the sub sound levels right so the crossover is probably a good 3db down. I assume the supplied microphone from SMS-1 is reading things correctly though.

In fact thats strange that the readings are higher at those frequencies as before i upgraded the SMS-1 firmware i'm sure they would read lower.

Anyways just when i thought i had got it all right i found out that just a foot next to me had a different graph with a large peak in it so i tried again and kept finding the same thing. The room is a nightmare to work with.

I have a Sony receiver and it's set to -5 for the subwoofer and the SVS sub is set at the quarter way mark on the volume and i have to keep the SMS-1 at a very low volume of 07 otherwise the sub levels are just ending up way too high compared to the left and right speakers which have a good sensitivity of 91db. It's strange as other people with the SMS-1 say they have it set at well over 20 and sometimes over 40 and yet mine is set to just 7. Must be the room.

I'm thinking i need to get Avia out tomorrow and run tests for volume of the sub and main speakers after i try once again to get the graph even. I did actually manage to get it even for one sitting position after lowering the volume at the 18hz and 25hz mark by 12.5db and 13db respectively. Trouble was if you moved to the seating position next to that one the graph changed and a large peak appeared at the 70 to 80hz mark.

The funny thing was using 16hz subsonic filter was really much harder to calibrate but when i switched the SVS to bypass mode and the manual does not explain what this does but the bass was slightly less ( as if it was using either the 20hz or 25hz subsonic filter ) but the SMS-1 graph was a lot neater and thats before attempting calibration.

I ran a test after the calibration attempt using Star Wars - Attack Of The Clones and with it set to 16hz tone the opening spaceship coming in to land sounded just a bit too distorted but loud and bassy - Not clean bass i would say. The actual explosion sounded good though. I switched to bypass mode on the subsonic filter and it cured most of the distorted bassy sound but the explosion lost some of the impact.

I know from the last time i did this that that spaceship scene can sound clean and very heavy on bass so i guess tomorrow will be a long day at trying to get it to work.

I just feel the SMS-1 graph is actually sometimes hard to read because you don't get to see an actual plotline reading along the frequencies with 1db increments so it's harder to really get right at least i find it hard. I see 80db for example at 20hz but at 80hz it's hard to track if it's showing that or is actually 5db out.

I asked this in the dedicated PC thread (with no true result), but has anyone actually layed a SVS cylindrical sub on its side and used it. I know SVS said it is ok, but I wanted to hear about it first hand from someone that has tried it.

I've had both the old and current PC-U on their sides for years in my HT. No problems at all and the both sound(ed) great. I've got mine placed under the screen in my HT.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01193.jpg

A dork with a big brown box on his floor?

Box containing replacement amp or equalizer.

A dork with a big brown box on his floor?

Ha Ha your half wright :D I think your AVITAR is more than appropriate :cool:

Box containing replacement amp or equalizer.

We have a winner , its A new amp for my PB13 :)

can we have a real pic....:confused::confused::confused::confused:

can we have a real pic....:confused::confused::confused::confused:

No problem pics are downloading now, amps already installed and it sounds better then before , but maybe its just because I missed it so much :D

Install was simple just 8 or so #2 screws and they even included clear instructions extra wire if needed . There was only a inch or of gap with wires when removing and installing amp but had a friend help . Im guessing SVS probably installed the amp first and then the driver but they did include extra wire like I said if needed . Beautiful well made amp :D SVS ROCKS http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01194.jpg http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01195.jpg http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01197.jpg http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01199.jpg http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01202.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01200.jpg http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01201.jpg

Regarding the SVS new sealed subs, I just saw this posted up:

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg240/maxxnmt/SVSSB.jpg

Is this new news or old news?

Hi guys!

I was just wondering if any owners of STS-01s would be able to comment on their audio-performance. I have a pair of SCS(M)s that I want to upgrade to STS-01, but I don´t know "how good the are".

Try a search on the Speaker forum. There are a couple of threads there about the STS-01.

This is off the subject but I recently recieved my PB10-NSD and due to my limited space I have placed it right beside (within an inch or two) of another subwoofer which is not being used. Will that produce any vibrations in the un-used sub being so close.

You will experiance cancellation that is measurable and more than likely audible with an unused sub next to it. I forget how to calculate where/how much it will be, but it will happen.

Google will probably yield you some more technical info if you want it.

I've had the SVS PB12nsd and that would be a great sub for you, I really liked mine and the only reason I went with the Ultra was because I was greedy:D Seriously that PB12 hits hard and is great for movies and music. If I had to get another sub and had a 600 dollar budget I'd get another one no dought and no hesitation what so ever !!!

Out of curiousity, how would you describe your transition from the PB12-NSD to the Ultra?

Regarding the SVS new sealed subs, I just saw this posted up:

Is this new news or old news?

Looks new to me. The first notice I saw for the new sealed line was just after CES in Jan '09 but this is the first with prices, pics and spec's.

Regarding the SVS new sealed subs, I just saw this posted up:

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg240/maxxnmt/SVSSB.jpg

Is this new news or old news?

do you have a link where you saw this posted? :)

Out of curiousity, how would you describe your transition from the PB12-NSD to the Ultra?

From being very happy to very very happy :D I feel the PB13 is excellent in all areas and the pb12nsd is a great sub for the money and I'd buy another if that was my price bracket .

Well, I seem to have picked a bad time to pull the trigger on an SB12-Plus.

First the website is down most of the day. Then when it comes back, I learn charcoal black SB12's are discontinued/out of stock.

Sadly, I have severe WAF, budget, and size constraints (actually all those constraints are WAF-related :rolleyes:). I really need something under 50 lbs and $700 that I can sneak into the HT under cover of darkness.

"What honey? What's that black cube in the corner? Oh that's the framistan, hon. Yeah, we've had it for years. It was um, behind the equipment rack. No, it wasn't expensive. Pay no attention to it."

I was originally looking at the Sunfire HRS-12, but they don't seem to be very popular around AVS, I assume there's a reason for that.

The SB12+ seemed to be well-regarded and solidly constructed, although I do understand it has limitations given its size. Which is fine, I'm not a bass freak, I just want to extend the bottom end of my B&W 604s, which I'm quite happy with otherwise.

So my questions are:

1. Any chance the SB12-Plus might reappear? Does SVS sell B-stock?
2. Any other small subwoofers I should consider besides the Sunfire?
3. Will there be a similarly-small successor to the SB12+, and if so, any idea when?

Thanks for any advice.

Well, I seem to have picked a bad time to pull the trigger on an SB12-Plus.

First the website is down most of the day. Then when it comes back, I learn charcoal black SB12's are discontinued/out of stock.

Sadly, I have severe WAF, budget, and size constraints (actually all those constraints are WAF-related :rolleyes:). I really need something under 50 lbs and $700 that I can sneak into the HT under cover of darkness.

"What honey? What's that black cube in the corner? Oh that's the framistan, hon. Yeah, we've had it for years. It was um, behind the equipment rack. No, it wasn't expensive. Pay no attention to it."

I was originally looking at the Sunfire HRS-12, but they don't seem to be very popular around AVS, I assume there's a reason for that.

The SB12+ seemed to be well-regarded and solidly constructed, although I do understand it has limitations given its size. Which is fine, I'm not a bass freak, I just want to extend the bottom end of my B&W 604s, which I'm quite happy with otherwise.

So my questions are:

1. Any chance the SB12-Plus might reappear? Does SVS sell B-stock?
2. Any other small subwoofers I should consider besides the Sunfire?
3. Will there be a similarly-small successor to the SB12+, and if so, any idea when?

Thanks for any advice.
1. It will come back in some form. SVS is working on a new line of sealed subs, but they're staying pretty tight-lipped about the release dates and models. They do sell B stock, but that page has error right now. I think they were hacked last week and are still recovering. You may have to call them. They may make you a deal on one of the remaining finishes.

2. Epik makes one to look at, but it is also $699 plus shipping.

3. See #1.

Randy, thanks for your response.

And thanks for pointing me to the Epik Vanquish, I'll have to take a look at it.

do you have a link where you saw this posted? :)

That was posted in a Malaysian forum by a local SVS distributor. He scanned it from a brochure handed out by SVS during a meet in Singapore about 3-4 weeks ago.

1. It will come back in some form. SVS is working on a new line of sealed subs, but they're staying pretty tight-lipped about the release dates and models.

Have you seen post #3953? ;)

But I don't know anything about the release dates.

Well, I seem to have picked a bad time to pull the trigger on an SB12-Plus.

First the website is down most of the day. Then when it comes back, I learn charcoal black SB12's are discontinued/out of stock.

Sadly, I have severe WAF, budget, and size constraints (actually all those constraints are WAF-related :rolleyes:). I really need something under 50 lbs and $700 that I can sneak into the HT under cover of darkness.

"What honey? What's that black cube in the corner? Oh that's the framistan, hon. Yeah, we've had it for years. It was um, behind the equipment rack. No, it wasn't expensive. Pay no attention to it."

I was originally looking at the Sunfire HRS-12, but they don't seem to be very popular around AVS, I assume there's a reason for that.

The SB12+ seemed to be well-regarded and solidly constructed, although I do understand it has limitations given its size. Which is fine, I'm not a bass freak, I just want to extend the bottom end of my B&W 604s, which I'm quite happy with otherwise.

So my questions are:

1. Any chance the SB12-Plus might reappear? Does SVS sell B-stock?
2. Any other small subwoofers I should consider besides the Sunfire?
3. Will there be a similarly-small successor to the SB12+, and if so, any idea when?

Thanks for any advice.

Hard to say when the black SB12 will come back in stock. But there are other options for compact sealed subs apart from SVS. Epik was mentioned. I would also suggest you look at the Rythmik F12.

This is just my OP but I think im a lifer with SVS because they have such TOP KNOTCH WELL PRICED SUBS and the best customer service that i've experienced in my life with anything from a to z . Not to say that the others mentioned dont but I couldnt be happier than I am now with SVS and could highly recommend them with confidence for all the reasons mention above just my 2 cents:D

That was posted in a Malaysian forum by a local SVS distributor. He scanned it from a brochure handed out by SVS during a meet in Singapore about 3-4 weeks ago.

thanks :)

Have you seen post #3953? ;)

But I don't know anything about the release dates.That is an older ad. It appears the current SB12 is being discontinued. Just what will replace it is still a mystery. The SB13+ and the SB16-Ultra may be the only choices as it doesn't make much sense to have the SB12+ other than as a lower priced option. Hopefully, they will have an under $700 option. Possibly they will replace the 12.3 driver with the 12.4.

Yeah, that ad is copyright 2008, and I can't imagine they'd say a product was discontinued if it was going to be brought back. Did the SB12+ not sell well?

I'm now looking at the Rythmik F12 and Epik Vanquish, but haven't found in-depth reviews of either. Those suckers are heavy too, 80 and 75 pounds. The SB12 is (was) a svelte 43 lbs. Not sure if weight says anything about the relative quality of the three subs?

Sunfire is still an option too, price is less important to me than small size and being able to move it myself. I don't like owning any electronic device that I can't pick up and throw out the window if necessary.

Yeah, that ad is copyright 2008, and I can't imagine they'd say a product was discontinued if it was going to be brought back. Did the SB12+ not sell well?

I'm now looking at the Rythmik F12 and Epik Vanquish, but haven't found in-depth reviews of either. Those suckers are heavy too, 80 and 75 pounds. The SB12 is (was) a svelte 43 lbs. Not sure if weight says anything about the relative quality of the three subs?

Sunfire is still an option too, price is less important to me than small size and being able to move it myself. I don't like owning any electronic device that I can't pick up and throw out the window if necessary.Not sure at this time if there will be a 12" version. I hope so. The SB12 did sell well, but it was based on the older 12.3 driver. So they may be redesigning it to use the 12.4 driver. I don't know where the 13" plus driver is coming from. Maybe it is the forerunner to another plus line upgrade. Or better yet, it may be the Ultra-13 being brought down to the plus line and a new Ultra is on the way. I love to speculate about items I have no knowledge of.

Just an observation..

SVS seems to have a pretty big price gap they're not covering.

Their boxes go from the $569 NSD.. to the next level (Plus) @ $1139. Similar gap in the cylinder series.

That's A LOT of ground not to have a product.

Hey SVS.. where's the ~$800 sub?

This is where the Plus line USED to reside.

JMHO..

Just an observation..

SVS seems to have a pretty big price gap they're not covering.

Their boxes go from the $569 NSD.. to the next level (Plus) @ $1139. Similar gap in the cylinder series.

That's A LOT of ground not to have a product.

Hey SVS.. where's the ~$800 sub?

This is where the Plus line USED to reside.

JMHO..+1. Seems most are going for the NSD or jumping up to the Ultra. The Plus is too close to the Ultra price to not make that jump and too far from the NSD to make it just a budget stretch.

Just an observation..

SVS seems to have a pretty big price gap they're not covering.

Their boxes go from the $569 NSD.. to the next level (Plus) @ $1139. Similar gap in the cylinder series.

That's A LOT of ground not to have a product.

Hey SVS.. where's the ~$800 sub?

This is where the Plus line USED to reside.

JMHO..

yeah, i noticed that too as i am interested in the pc12 plus. so it occurred to me to calculate how many amps per dollar you get with each offering. i only looked at the cylinders. it came out to .53 amps per dollar for the pc12 nsd; .55 for the plus and .57 for the ultra. these calculations do not include shipping. when you look at it from that perspective, their pricing makes sense as you would expect a little more amp per dollar as the price gets higher.

Just an observation..

SVS seems to have a pretty big price gap they're not covering.

Their boxes go from the $569 NSD.. to the next level (Plus) @ $1139. Similar gap in the cylinder series.

That's A LOT of ground not to have a product.

Hey SVS.. where's the ~$800 sub?

This is where the Plus line USED to reside.

JMHO..

+1. Right now I feel like there is almost a tie between the HSU 3.3, Outlaw LFM-EX and the SVS NSD PB-12. SVS has the edge right now just based on price. There is nothing offered by HSU and Outlaw. Filling that gap may help to better compete with Epik.

Hello, I have a open room that is 40ft (Long) x 11ft (Wide) x 7ft (High) and is connected to two other rooms, not wall or door. Can you help me choose one of the subwoofer from SVS (has a Canadian Distributer.)

Primary uses: 60% Movies, 10% Music, 30% Gaming

Heres the room layout:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/Blackhawk_229/roomlayout.jpg

I have an older PCI SVS sub and I cannot find the power cable. Does anyone know what cable I need to power the sub? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I have an older PCI SVS sub and I cannot find the power cable. Does anyone know what cable I need to power the sub? Any help would be greatly appreciated.You can use a standard power cable from a Personal Computer. If you find a heavier gage, 12 or 14, then use it.

You can use a standard power cable from a Personal Computer. If you find a heavier gage, 12 or 14, then use it.

I found a 14 guage 3 prong on monoprice, but the amp for the sub only has two prongs?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5293&seq=1&format=2

I found a 14 guage 3 prong on monoprice, but the amp for the sub only has two prongs?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5293&seq=1&format=2 That's fine. The original power cord has 3 prongs. The ground prong is not connected on the sub. You can also go to your local electronics/computer store and buy one.

Nice! The sub is up and running. Now its time to get a disc and calibrate the sound and display.

Any suggestions other than a Eye 1 and Radio Shack SPL coupled with the AVS disc?

I have a SVS or SV sound sub from 2002. Its a lovely sub but of the older vintage when they made passive only.
Its a 12" cylinder, downward firing, ported unit in black about 40" tall and 16" in diameter.
model 16-46CS-PLUS. I have some very expensive mono amps that I drive it with and an extra matching amp for second sub that I always planned to buy.
now I am trying to buy a second one from SVS and they of course do not make it any longer. They also cant help me my furnishing me a special unit without the integrated amp. I don't need the amp and they said there is really no way to bypass it. I really want to stay with the same look and same set up and love to find another one but cant find one used SO.
I need to find a cylinder type sub, of comparable size and shape and sound that I can drive with the amp I already have.
Can you guys think of ANY tricky ideas on how I might accomplish this???

^If you are patient, and willing to wait it out a few months, you will find one to match eventually. You have to check places like audiogon, craigslist, and ebay daily.
I've had good luck with craigslist.org. I use the Google advanced search and search "craigslist,org" for whatever you may be looking for and it will find all matches over the entire country... in this case "svs subwoofer".
When you find one you jump on it and ask the seller if they're willing to ship it and negotiate for price from there. I've done this about10-12 times with all but 1 thing being a fantastic deal, and the one thing was still a good deal too.
Especially around Christmas time or shortly before, everyone sells stuff for extra cash to buy holiday gifts. This is my advice fwiw...

hey I appreciate that buddy. mike

Hey guys, I have one of the early PC+ cylinder subs. Been fine for 6-7 years and then all of a sudden, a month or so ago, I noticed some popping coming from the sub. I emailed back and forth with Jack @ SVS a few times and I think we narrowed it down to a driver problem.

Fast forward to this past week, I'm getting almost no output out of the sub. I have to turn it up almost to full gain to get any sound out of it. I'll email SVS again on Monday, but thought in the mean time I'd ask here. Is it possible the driver finally just totally died, or do I possibly have an amp problem, too? How do you know for sure?

Hey guys, I have one of the early PC+ cylinder subs. Been fine for 6-7 years and then all of a sudden, a month or so ago, I noticed some popping coming from the sub. I emailed back and forth with Jack @ SVS a few times and I think we narrowed it down to a driver problem.

Fast forward to this past week, I'm getting almost no output out of the sub. I have to turn it up almost to full gain to get any sound out of it. I'll email SVS again on Monday, but thought in the mean time I'd ask here. Is it possible the driver finally just totally died, or do I possibly have an amp problem, too? How do you know for sure?Since the driver seems to be on its last legs, I would suspect it is now on life support. Ask SVS if you can get a new Plus 12.3 or 12.4 driver to replace the probably DB12.2. You don't have to wait until Monday. They often reply on the weekend.

Since the driver seems to be on its last legs, I would suspect it is now on life support. Ask SVS if you can get a new Plus 12.3 or 12.4 driver to replace the probably DB12.2. You don't have to wait until Monday. They often reply on the weekend.

Yeah, I guess I would think its still the driver, but I didn't know if the sub would eventally almost totally stop working. My biggest fear, I guess, is that I replace 1 item (speaker or amp) and then find out its the other.

But I suppose an email to SVS is te best bet to see what they say.

Hello, I have a open room that is 40ft (Long) x 11ft (Wide) x 7ft (High) and is connected to two other rooms, not wall or door. Can you help me choose one of the subwoofer from SVS (has a Canadian Distributer.)

Primary uses: 60% Movies, 10% Music, 30% Gaming


I'd recommend either two PC-13 Ultras or PB-13 Ultras.

Hey guys, i ve been thinking purchasing the sb12 plus, i want it to be mainly for movies but dont want an tank in my apartment.

I dont use high volumes because mainly watch the movies at night and as i stated earlier in an apartment.

The general consensus is a sealed subwoofer is not as good as a vented one for movies.

At low volumes isn't the two types of subwoofers similar or identical?

Thanks guys

Hey guys, i ve been thinking purchasing the sb12 plus, i want it to be mainly for movies but dont want an tank in my apartment.

I dont use high volumes because mainly watch the movies at night and as i stated earlier in an apartment.

The general consensus is a sealed subwoofer is not as good as a vented one for movies.

At low volumes isn't the two types of subwoofers similar or identical?

Thanks guys

For an apartment, the SB12-Plus is a pretty good choice. It does not dig particularly deep. Being in an apartment, that can help to keep you out of trouble with the neighbors since it is the deeper frequencies that tend to travel the most.

Even at low volumes, there are differences between the larger ported subs and the small sealed ones. The differences may be a bit less noticeable at lower volume, however.

For an apartment, the SB12-Plus is a pretty good choice. It does not dig particularly deep.

:confused::eek::confused:
Hmmm....I have not heard the SB12-Plus, but I was considering it because of its tuning capability...and potential lower frequency extension if tuned accordingly.

As far as a sub for an apartment, I really don't know if one type of sub vs another will have any advantage in sound transmission through walls/rooms. You can either get a sub that is good/great, and when operating properly will do what it is supposed to and produce low frequencies...or you can get a poor quality sub that can't perform well and thus will not disturb your neighbors; however, it may bother you;).

I would get the most sub for what fits in your space.

:confused::eek::confused:
Hmmm....I have not heard the SB12-Plus, but I was considering it because of its tuning capability...and potential lower frequency extension if tuned accordingly.

As far as a sub for an apartment, I really don't know if one type of sub vs another will have any advantage in sound transmission through walls/rooms. You can either get a sub that is good/great, and when operating properly will do what it is supposed to and produce low frequencies...or you can get a poor quality sub that can't perform well and thus will not disturb your neighbors; however, it may bother you;).

I would get the most sub for what fits in your space.

The SB12-Plus is a small sealed sub that can't really be tuned in the sense of the way some ported subs can be tuned. Are you confusing it with the much larger, ported PB12-Plus?

The SB12 is designed to get some useable response (although not all that much) down into the mid 20hz range and that's about it. Below that it's filtered to rolloff even more sharply. Above 30hz or so, it does an excellent job for such a small box. The designers over at SVS made a few compromises to get allround decent performance from a small sealed not-so-expensive sub. The SB12 is anything but a poor quality sub. It's actually a high quality sub, but with limited deep bass capabilities.

The SB12-Plus is a small sealed sub that can't really be tuned in the sense of the way some ported subs can be tuned. Are you confusing it with the much larger, ported PB12-Plus?

The SB12 is designed to get some useable response (although not all that much) down into the mid 20hz range and that's about it. Below that it's filtered to rolloff even more sharply. Above 30hz or so, it does an excellent job for such a small box. The designers over at SVS made a few compromises to get allround decent performance from a small sealed not-so-expensive sub. The SB12 is anything but a poor quality sub. It's actually a high quality sub, but with limited deep bass capabilities.

Brotha Mike...you are right as usual:o. Thanks!! I am so sorry, but I was thinking about the PC12-plus (or PB12-plus).

BTW, I made no association with the SB12 being a poor quality sub; however, it would not quench my thirst for bass in HT applications.

BTW, I made no association with the SB12 being a poor quality sub; however, it would not quench my thirst for bass in HT applications.

It would not quench mine either. :)

I was about to upgrade my 12.2 driver to the 12.3 and I saw a price of $275 up from $169. Good god, what made the price jump that much, if this is a real price I will not upgrade either of my subs:(

I was about to upgrade my 12.2 driver to the 12.3 and I saw a price of $275 up from $169. Good god, what made the price jump that much, if this is a real price I will not upgrade either of my subs:(

I noticed that too a few days ago and I don't think it's worth that price either. It MIGHT be worthwhile to upgrade from the 12.1's to 12.3's, but even still, $275 is quite a stretch. When you take into consideration the fact that superior 12" drivers such as the Exodus Shiva-X (XBL^2, 27mm X-max, etc) sell for well under $200, it makes you wonder why the 12.3's cost so much. For $100 each, I might be tempted to upgrade. I wouldn't even consider it for $275. Just my opinion.

I was about to upgrade my 12.2 driver to the 12.3 and I saw a price of $275 up from $169. Good god, what made the price jump that much, if this is a real price I will not upgrade either of my subs:(Just remember, that price doesn't include shipping, so it's even a better bargain.:)

SVS isn't in the driver business, they're in the sub business. They want you to upgrade your sub, not just the driver.

I had a 12.2 for a short time and then replaced it with a 12.3 as a warranty replacement. I didn't find it to have a noticeable difference. But I couldn't A/B them so it is hard to tell.

Where did you see the price? I only see in the Parts & Accessories that it says prices available on request.

Just remember, that price doesn't include shipping, so it's even a better bargain.:)

SVS isn't in the driver business, they're in the sub business. They want you to upgrade your sub, not just the driver.

I had a 12.2 for a short time and then replaced it with a 12.3 as a warranty replacement. I didn't find it to have a noticeable difference. But I couldn't A/B them so it is hard to tell.

Where did you see the price? I only see in the Parts & Accessories that it says prices available on request.

No, they are in the drivers business, I would not buy their subs based on the box, other the the cylinder most box consturction is very similar. Their drivers and amps are the selling point. The 12.3 earily this year sold for $169+ now its up to $275+, if it was the 12.4 modified to fit the 12.3 base I'd more likely to consider.

http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-plus12_3woofer2.cfm

No, they are in the drivers business, I would not buy their subs based on the box, other the the cylinder most box construction is very similar. Their drivers and amps are the selling point. The 12.3 early this year sold for $169+ now its up to $275+, if it was the 12.4 modified to fit the 12.3 base I'd more likely to consider.

http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-plus12_3woofer2.cfm
The point I tried to make is that they sell sub woofer systems fully assembled. They don't sell their drivers except to sub woofer customers for after warranty or, in some cases, as upgrades. They don't sell their drivers like JL or eD.

They said, when the 12.3 came out, that the price as a 12.2 upgrade was temporary. It lasted for 3 years.

The point I tried to make is that they sell sub woofer systems fully assembled. They don't sell their drivers except to sub woofer customers for after warranty or, in some cases, as upgrades. They don't sell their drivers like JL or eD.

They said, when the 12.3 came out, that the price as a 12.2 upgrade was temporary. It lasted for 3 years.

what ransac said.

SVS doesn't sell raw drivers. basically, even if it was priced at $1 apiece, they won't sell them to people without 'subwoofer systems' that are/can utilize that driver. they're for warranty purposes and/or upgrades for those with 12.2 drivers.

since SVS makes their own drivers, i guess the phasing out of 'subwoofer systems' utilizing the 12.3 woofers drove the price up (no more economies of scale).

do you know how much will power it takes not to touch the ultra driver sitting on a shelf? :D