Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. [Text View] - Page 17

TheFactor

09-04-09, 07:06 PM

i'm now a SVS sub owner, well i will be i just ordered on today.

i ordered the PB10-NSD this morning. looking forward to hearing it, i don't have it yet but i know it's going to be a huge leap over the little 8" yamaha sub i got now.

i'm really looking forward to hearing it while watching movies. i was watching incredible hulk the other day with in DTS-MA and the little 8" yamaha was bottoming out bad.

is there any settings i need to set it when i get it. i will have to re run audyssey on the denon 1610 when i get it and would like to know what settings i should set the rear knobs on before i run audyssey.

welcome to the SVS family "the w was for you jim p :p" Anyway congrats on your new sub Soul that was my first SVS sub and it was a hard hitting little sucker your going to love it . Now as far as settings I would probably set all your speakers to small on your AVR, SUB only setting , gain on your sub around half way or less, freq cut off turned all the way up or off if you can I cant remember if it has a bypass option and set freq at 80 on your AVR. Now these setting I used runing the mac setup with my Pioneer Elite the audyssey on your denon might work differently. It also after running your Audyssey might set all your apeakers back to large so you might have to go back in and manually change them back. I think those settings I mentioned will give you a good starting point and you can dial it in more to your taste after you get use to it . Im sure some others will hopefully chime in that use the audyssey with there SVS pb10nsd just in case I was off a little on my suggestions. Anyway congrats again and you made a great choice going with SVS and the pb10nsd . Svs Also has great customer service pretty much 7 days a week so shoot them a email or give them a call and they'll help you set it up even better, good luck and enjoy !!! :)

soul embrace

09-04-09, 11:23 PM

Now as far as settings I would probably set all your speakers to small on your AVR, SUB only setting , gain on your sub around half way or less, freq cut off turned all the way up or off if you can I cant remember if it has a bypass option and set freq at 80 on your AVR. Now these setting I used runing the mac setup with my Pioneer Elite the audyssey on your denon might work differently. It also after running your Audyssey might set all your apeakers back to large so you might have to go back in and manually change them back.

thanks for the reply!

in the audyssey thread people has said in there to set the freq at 120 instead of 80. so would this be something to do with the audyssey or do some people like it set at 120?

thanks for your help

JimP

09-05-09, 12:18 AM

s e

I would at least try the system the way audyssey sets it up.

The 120hz crossover for the surround speakers probably have to do with most people using much smaller speakers in those positions. There again I'd leave it to where audyssey sets the system.

Here is an index to other setup information that you may find useful.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1004573

TheFactor

09-05-09, 03:56 AM

thanks for the reply!

in the audyssey thread people has said in there to set the freq at 120 instead of 80. so would this be something to do with the audyssey or do some people like it set at 120?

thanks for your help

No problem glad I could help and Jim p Threw up a great link for all the basic bass management setups I think will help you a great deal .

soul embrace

09-05-09, 07:39 AM

The 120hz crossover for the surround speakers probably have to do with most people using much smaller speakers in those positions. There again I'd leave it to where audyssey sets the system.

Here is an index to other setup information that you may find useful.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1004573

Thanks for the link i will have to read through most of the links for there. I have the take classic surround speakers so my speakers are small also, but I will do like you said and leave it where audyssey sets it and see if I like it.

dewd

09-05-09, 11:44 AM

thanks for the reply!

in the audyssey thread people has said in there to set the freq at 120 instead of 80. so would this be something to do with the audyssey or do some people like it set at 120?

thanks for your help

They are referring to the LFE, which is not a crossover. Set this to 120Hz. Everything else that is not full range leave alone (leave as Audyssey set it). Set anything full range to at least 80Hz.

soul embrace

09-05-09, 12:10 PM

They are referring to the LFE, which is not a crossover. Set this to 120Hz. Everything else that is not full range leave alone (leave as Audyssey set it). Set anything full range to at least 80Hz.

oh ok thanks for the clarification

Scottfox

09-05-09, 07:10 PM

ransac

09-05-09, 07:47 PM

What is the difference between the PB2-ISD & the PB12-NSD? They both dual 12" subs or just the older one? I looked on the SVS site, & they have no info or support for older models that I could find. When were the PB2's made? What is a good price for a used one?If you just missed the 1 and it is a PB12-ISD, then the major difference is the driver. The current PB12-NSD is more of a total redesign, box, driver, and amp, over the old PB12-ISD and it is a much better sub.

If you typed it correctly, then the PB2-ISD is a much older design with dual 12" ISD drivers, multiple ports, a more powerful amp and down-firing drivers with rear-firing ports. It will have more output than the PB12-NSD, but it won't sound as good. This was the predecessor of the PB12-ISD/2 and the PB12-NSD/2. So it is at least 5 years old.

Kartoon2005

09-07-09, 10:46 PM

If anyone is interested I have a PB12-NSD for sale in Brooklyn, NY.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h289/sole_kartoon/DSC08297.jpg

Looking to get a Cylinder now.:)

d_m1010

09-08-09, 10:39 AM

The PB 12 Plus are heavy beasts I'll tell you that! They do look rather imposing and they take up a lot of space. Took a lot of effort to get them into place at 127 lbs each. I bought the version with the piano gloss finish to match my NHT mains.

So I hooked them up with Blue Jeans interconnects and Cardas Cross power cables I've got. The Yamaha (rx-v3900 pre/pro w/ 2 Emotiva amps) YPAO always turns the subwoofer gain much more lower than I prefer for HT. After recalibrating the room, I let them rip. I had four subs running before (with all sorts of room mode/phase/firing/standing wave problems) and these things pump out the same spl and 'ooomph' as them, but with a hell of a lot more grace and detail.

The room modes are evenly balanced now and there are no 'bass holes' with two. Also the gain on each is reduced by 6db, but if I want to run them hot I have the horsepower (and I do run them hot for HT lol).

These subs are so linear, flat and free from distortion that the rest of the speaker compliment sound like a great weight of 'boom' has been lifted from their shoulders. The 4 different NHT subs running masked the mains I've now discovered. The SVS subs sound even better now because I just put a Auralex Great Gramma under each.

The best sub purchases I have ever made.

Adamg (Ret-Navy)

09-08-09, 01:43 PM

I don't know if posting praise of a Manufacture is considered proper decorum here, but I have to post my experience with SVS.

I am in the throws of upgrading my AVR and with the new Audyessy DSX "Wide" and "High" channels being offered by Dennon and Onkyo I am in the market for new speakers to accommodate these newly added channels.

I have two SVS subs, they perform wonderfully and do more than advertised. Add to that all the Technical advice and guidance they provided to help me get the most out of their subs. At no extra charge. I become a loyal SVS fan. So, SVS is my first choice for my new speakers. I am not certain what speaker make will best integrate into my existing set up. So, I write an Email to SVS and ask, "What speakers do you have that would best fit my existing setup?".

To my total and complete surprise, Ed of SVS explains that I would be best served by purchasing more of the same speakers that I already have? Now, here is a business telling me to buy someone else's product because in their expert opinion, their competitors equipment will serve me better than their own.

This is indeed a very rare example of Ethical Integrity of the highest order. My hat is off to SVS.

And in this one instance only, I have to agree to disagree with Ed.

dewd

09-08-09, 03:03 PM

Adamg,

You should agree to agree with Ed in this case. It is important to keep your front sound stage timbre matched, meaning all the speakers sound the same. This most often means buying the same brand. Inserting SVS speakers here would not work. Imagine a voice panning from left to right. You want that voice to sound exactly the same as it passes through each speaker....

AKishkovsky

09-08-09, 03:14 PM

Hello forum,

I recently acquired a 20-39 PC-12 plus from my Father in law. He subsiquently upgraded to a pair of PC-13 Ultra's.:eek:

My brother in law and I decided to play with it a little while I wait for my New fronts and receiver ship to me.

We temporarily hooked this thing up to an old HTIB receiver thats been collecting dust for over a year now. We used a pair of old DJ monitors to get some 2.1 action. Surprisingly, the HTIB receiver did provide LFE signal so we lucked out.

In one word GODDAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With out any calibration whatsoever, this beast promptly scared our parakeets and two pittbulls. One of the dogs ran to the back bedroom, the other jammed himself into the corner of the couch, cowering and flinching with every explosion in the opening scene of saving Private Ryan.:D

I have a lot of studying to do when I get the rest of my gear in the mail. Will probably start blowing up this forum on how to best calibrate and tune the monster in the coming weeks. I had a chance to experiance this sub at my Dad in law's house but he was trying to fill a much larger space than my living room. Whatta differnece I must say:). BTW, I heard his twin Ultras and they sounded like the second coming. Ill find it hard to ever go to the theater again.

To the designers at SV, my compliments.

AK

ransac

09-08-09, 07:28 PM

To my total and complete surprise, Ed of SVS explains that I would be best served by purchasing more of the same speakers that I already have? Now, here is a business telling me to buy someone else's product because in their expert opinion, their competitors equipment will serve me better than their own.

This is indeed a very rare example of Ethical Integrity of the highest order. My hat is off to SVS.

And in this one instance only, I have to agree to disagree with Ed.I don't doubt Ed's advice was the best for your environment. What models of speakers do you have now and how are they deployed?

TastyHiHatWork

09-08-09, 07:52 PM

ransac

09-08-09, 08:37 PM

With out any calibration whatsoever, this beast promptly scared our parakeets and two pittbulls. One of the dogs ran to the back bedroom, the other jammed himself into the corner of the couch, cowering and flinching with every explosion in the opening scene of saving Private Ryan.:D
AKTrust me, they will get used to it and stop reacting that way. My dog just sleeps through movies now, unless there is a door bell in the movie. Then she thinks it's someone at the door. That's not the sub's fault.

soul embrace

09-08-09, 09:23 PM

my psb10-nsd will be here thursday......can't wait!!

Adamg (Ret-Navy)

09-08-09, 10:51 PM

Guys, I know Ed is right. I really am not questioning his expertise. I was making a back handed compliment, that obviously did not work very well.

AKishkovsky

09-09-09, 02:37 PM

d_m1010

09-09-09, 02:52 PM

Now that the elation has finally blown over......sort of, I was wondering, What is the highest position I can use on my gain knob SAFELY.???

I am in a room thats on the larger side of medium that extends out to a dining area of equal size. Im in a living room thats 14x22x10. I wanna use a single port plug for the 16hz setting. Definatly dont want to blow up my new toy. I still have a lot of calibrating to do when my receiver ships in.

(PC-12+ 20-39)

AK

Heya AKishkovsky, this is one of the MANY emails I have received from Ed Mullen at SVS who designed the dual PB12 Pluses I just bought:

Air moving through the ports is fine – when it starts to audibly “chuff” (a turbulent huffing/puffing/chuffing sound) that is a sign the subwoofer is being overdriven. When the subwoofer is tuned to 16 Hz, the ports will move the most air in the 14-22 Hz band, and the woofer will handle the rest. So port chuffing will only occur on the very deepest passages, if at all.

If the subwoofers are not compressing dynamics, chuffing air out the ports, farting, or otherwise making strained/stressed/obnoxious noises, you should be OK, but like I said previously, I would do a sanity check with an SPL meter to see where they are set.

AKishkovsky

09-09-09, 02:59 PM

Will do. My Father in Law, the previous owner, Had it set at 20hz out of the box configuration. He left it that way so as to save a little head room. He was driving spl into a much larger room than mine and spent alot of time concerned he was running it too hot. He has since upgraded to two ultras. His room needed the upgrade. In any case Im excited to get everything set up correctly.

Btw, anyone have experiance using these subs with Marantz' MRAC eq system? The receiver I baught doesnt have audessy. I got a sr5002 for dirt cheap. Looked the other way on some of the compromises due to price.

maxht

09-09-09, 09:03 PM

Now that the elation has finally blown over......sort of, I was wondering, What is the highest position I can use on my gain knob SAFELY.???

I am in a room thats on the larger side of medium that extends out to a dining area of equal size. Im in a living room thats 14x22x10. I wanna use a single port plug for the 16hz setting. Definatly dont want to blow up my new toy. I still have a lot of calibrating to do when my receiver ships in.

(PC-12+ 20-39)

AK
Just want to share mine. I set it at slightly lower than 10 o'clock at the gain while at the avr it is -2dB. On SPL meter, the sub is set at +2dB over the spkrs setting at 75dB.

The PC12-Plus is being set at 16Hz (1 port blocked) and I have been :D since the day it resided in my room. Then, the itch sets in. I ordered a PB13-Ultra. The PC12-Plus was sold to a guy who came over to my home to audition it as he is too curious to know about SVS. He begged me to sell to him on the spot :p The last I heard, he sold his existing new sub to make way
for this.

TheFactor

09-09-09, 09:19 PM

soul embrace

09-10-09, 05:10 PM

i got my pb10-nsd in today. can't wait to run audyssey so it will all be set up right. will do that later today.

i did play a little bit of the incredible hulk with it and while the receiver was set up for a small 8" yamaha sub it did bottom out a little during the energy wave scene. so i'm hoping audyssey fixes that. i wasn't playing it any loader than i did with the old 7+ year old yamaha.

Gelinas

09-10-09, 05:13 PM

That scene has a lot of very low frequency material. Your old sub likely has a crossover that was fiktering out the deep stuff.

soul embrace

09-10-09, 05:41 PM

That scene has a lot of very low frequency material. Your old sub likely has a crossover that was fiktering out the deep stuff.

so are you saying once i re run audyssey it should fix that problem?

i just re read what i wrote here :

i did play a little bit of the incredible hulk with it and while the receiver was set up for a small 8" yamaha sub it did bottom out a little during the energy wave scene. so i'm hoping audyssey fixes that. i wasn't playing it any loader than i did with the old 7+ year old yamaha.

and noticed it might have been a little confusing on which sub i was talking about so i'm going to re word it.

i did play a little bit of the incredible hulk with the pb10-nsd (and while the receiver was set up for a small 8" yamaha sub) the psb10-nsd did bottom out a little during the energy wave scene. so i'm hoping audyssey fixes that. i wasn't playing it any loader than i did with the old 7+ year old yamaha

Gelinas

09-11-09, 08:16 AM

soul embrace

09-11-09, 03:49 PM

What I was trying to say is, your yamaha likely had the crossover built in, so when it played the sound cannon scene, instead of actually attempting to play the 10hz stuff it just rumbled. Some people have reported their ultra's making strange noises with this scene.

You may not even want to run audyssey, it often does not provide satisfying results for the subwoofer settings. Personally, I have a Yamaha reciever and was MUCH more satisfied when I manually set my levels with a spl meter.

thanks for the reply.

i'm pretty happy with the way audyssey set stuff up, i may turn the center speaker up a couple of more db and may do the sub also. on the incredible hulk the dialog was a little hard to hear during the cannon scene.

Bob Whitefield

09-12-09, 06:21 PM

I was planning to buy a PC12-NSD from SVS, but have an opportunity to get a used 20-39PCi in excellent condition.

Could anyone give me an idea of the relative quality of these two models? Has there been significant improvement in drivers or amp that would make the entry-level PC12-NSD comparable, or is the 20-39PCi more equivalent to the PC12-Plus?

I'm trying to decide what kind of offer to make on the 20-39PCi, the asking price is a bit high. How much of a bargain should I be looking for here? The 20-39PCi MSRP wasn't much more than the PC12-NSD.

Thanks for any advice.

Snowmanick

09-12-09, 07:55 PM

If I remember correctly the PC12-NSD is the replacement for the PCi series, with dimensions similar to the 25-31 cylinder. Depending on what series amp and driver are in the PCi (NSD or ISD driver) there have been reports that the new NSD is a significant step up.

Bob Whitefield

09-13-09, 08:26 AM

If I remember correctly the PC12-NSD is the replacement for the PCi series, with dimensions similar to the 25-31 cylinder.
Thanks for your reply. It's my understanding the 20-39PCi was the mid-level model at the time, it's 39" tall vs. 35" for the PC12-NSD.

Depending on what series amp and driver are in the PCi (NSD or ISD driver) there have been reports that the new NSD is a significant step up.
So that's what I'm asking: was the earlier mid-level cylinder (20-39PCi) significantly different from their current entry-level PC12-NSD? Are the amp and driver similar?

jason brent

09-13-09, 11:56 AM

PCi was the entry level SVS. It had 3 different tuning versions at 25hz, 20, and 16. They were 25", 39", and 46" tall respectively. IIRC;)

Ron Temple

09-13-09, 01:45 PM

So that's what I'm asking: was the earlier mid-level cylinder (20-39PCi) significantly different from their current entry-level PC12-NSD? Are the amp and driver similar?Unfortunately, unless someone that has both chimes in, I don't think you'll get a definitive answer. The PC12NSD will have an output advantage, the driver has gone through 2 (at least) revisions since the ISD and I know the amp has been optimized. You will probably lose a couple of hz in extention, say 18hz vs 16hz due to the 22hz tuning vs. 20hz. What this translates to in sound quality, we can only guess at. I'd figure more midbass slam and linearity to 80hz and beyond. IIRC the older SVS subs started rolling off fairly early. You can ask SVS CS, but you'll probably be told the same thing I just wrote down. I'm guessing it's worth it to go with the new model.

Bob Whitefield

09-13-09, 06:39 PM

I'm guessing it's worth it to go with the new model.

Thanks Ron, very helpful. My front speakers are large B&W floor-standing, so I really don't need anything above 60Hz, but I'm leaning towards the new model, mostly for peace of mind. I'm not a bass freak, but there's definitely a hole below 40Hz I want to fill.

Kartoon2005

09-13-09, 08:42 PM

eric-t

09-13-09, 08:48 PM

I'm officially subwoofer-less.

I sold my PB12NSD on Friday in order to get a PC12+ since I will be getting a longer couch and would need to go with a Cylinder. However as I wanted to check out I noticed that SVS was charging TAX to NY. That killed the deal for me. :mad:

Anyone selling a PC13 Ultra or a PC12 Plus? I need a sub!

One on e-bay...http://cgi.ebay.com/SVS-16-46-PC-PLUS-SUBWOOFER_W0QQitemZ250495112479QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_S ubwoofers?hash=item3a52ac151f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Kartoon2005

09-13-09, 08:49 PM

Yea I seen it but the base is cracked.

Jack Gilvey

09-14-09, 09:12 AM

You will probably lose a couple of hz in extention, say 18hz vs 16hz due to the 22hz tuning vs. 20hz. The PC12-NSD is actually tuned to ~19Hz (PB10-NSD is ~22Hz). Extension/performance is comparable to the 20-39 PCi, while being a bit smaller and showing more resistance to overload.

As noted, the 20-39 PCi was in the middle in terms of tuning/size comparison to the other PCi subs, but it was entry-level in comparison to the Plus and Ultra lines. Same relative position as the P12-NSD (which replaced all three PCi), in other words.

Ron Temple

09-14-09, 06:55 PM

The PC12-NSD is actually tuned to ~19Hz (PB10-NSD is ~22Hz). Extension/performance is comparable to the 20-39 PCi, while being a bit smaller and showing more resistance to overload.

As noted, the 20-39 PCi was in the middle in terms of tuning/size comparison to the other PCi subs, but it was entry-level in comparison to the Plus and Ultra lines. Same relative position as the P12-NSD (which replaced all three PCi), in other words.Ah, I thought you were using the 22hz tune featured as an option with the old 25-31 cylinder...must have packed in some more portage :). Also, while the PC12NSD occupies the same relative spot in your lineup, you didn't address any improvements, which I've been told, are fairly significant...hmmm ;):D.

Bob Whitefield

09-14-09, 07:38 PM

The PC12-NSD is actually tuned to ~19Hz (PB10-NSD is ~22Hz). Extension/performance is comparable to the 20-39 PCi, while being a bit smaller and showing more resistance to overload.

As noted, the 20-39 PCi was in the middle in terms of tuning/size comparison to the other PCi subs, but it was entry-level in comparison to the Plus and Ultra lines. Same relative position as the P12-NSD (which replaced all three PCi), in other words.
Thanks Jack! Exactly the information I was looking for.

I hadn't considered SVS until I started researching here, and heard nothing but good things about the products and people. Also refreshing is the understated sales pitch; Ron seems to be a more vocal advocate than you... ;)

javry

09-14-09, 07:49 PM

I don't recall seeing SVS at CEDIA this past w'end. Did anyone see them? As an owner of 2 B4s, It would've been nice to have a conversation with them.

Jack Gilvey

09-14-09, 08:07 PM

Ah, I thought you were using the 22hz tune featured as an option with the old 25-31 cylinder...must have packed in some more portage :). Also, while the PC12NSD occupies the same relative spot in your lineup, you didn't address any improvements, which I've been told, are fairly significant...hmmm ;):D.
'Twas inspired by the low-tuned 25-31, for sure. :) It's a bit taller and tuned a bit lower. The amp was tweaked and now the PC12-NSD has a more damped roll-off as well as greater resistance to bottoming. It's just a clean, dynamic, well-balanced, well-behaved sub. :)

Jack Gilvey

09-14-09, 08:08 PM

Thanks Jack! Exactly the information I was looking for.

I hadn't considered SVS until I started researching here, and heard nothing but good things about the products and people. Also refreshing is the understated sales pitch; Ron seems to be a more vocal advocate than you... ;)

Thanks for the props! :)

AKishkovsky

09-21-09, 09:39 PM

Just want to share mine. I set it at slightly lower than 10 o'clock at the gain while at the avr it is -2dB. On SPL meter, the sub is set at +2dB over the spkrs setting at 75dB.

The PC12-Plus is being set at 16Hz (1 port blocked) and I have been :D since the day it resided in my room. Then, the itch sets in. I ordered a PB13-Ultra. The PC12-Plus was sold to a guy who came over to my home to audition it as he is too curious to know about SVS. He begged me to sell to him on the spot :p The last I heard, he sold his existing new sub to make way
for this.

I just completed my spl adjustments. I ended up setting the gain nob right at 10oclock. So far everything is set right at 75db and sounds excellent. I am thirsty for just a tad more punch so I will probably set the db level on my receiver at +2 or +3 over the rest of my speakers. Will post soon after I play with the new settings. So far every movie scene Ive thrown at it has been Badass:cool:, however the way my adjoined dining room and living room are designed, it seems the PC+ needs just a tad more heat to fill it up that way Id like. My father in law (previous owner) had kept the native 20hz tuning so as not to sacrifice overall output. He was in a much larger space though. Im hoping to acheive the same results at the 16hz tune. Anyhoo, Im way :D:D:D with how it sounds now. Im sure it'll only get better with a bit of fidgeting.

Kartoon2005

09-21-09, 11:36 PM

^^ If it is a cylinder you have then sell it to me and get a pc13 ultra. ;)

slosvt

09-22-09, 01:24 PM

I just completed my spl adjustments. I ended up setting the gain nob right at 10oclock. So far everything is set right at 75db and sounds excellent. I am thirsty for just a tad more punch so I will probably set the db level on my receiver at +2 or +3 over the rest of my speakers. Will post soon after I play with the new settings. So far every movie scene Ive thrown at it has been Badass:cool:, however the way my adjoined dining room and living room are designed, it seems the PC+ needs just a tad more heat to fill it up that way Id like. My father in law (previous owner) had kept the native 20hz tuning so as not to sacrifice overall output. He was in a much larger space though. Im hoping to acheive the same results at the 16hz tune. Anyhoo, Im way :D:D:D with how it sounds now. Im sure it'll only get better with a bit of fidgeting.

Did you calibrate with Avia and a Radio Shack SPL?

AKishkovsky

09-22-09, 02:08 PM

Did you calibrate with Avia and a Radio Shack SPL?

Just used the DB meter with the "pink noise" test tones from the marantz receiver. Im looking into Avia but my system is not yet complete.:( Im using a funky old set of Pioneer bookshelf speakers that came form a HTIB until I get some in wall speakers as my permanent surrounds. I have not yet decided on 5.1 or 7.1 as wall space is limited with the shape of my room.:mad: Once the permanent set up is in, I'll be looking into doing a more detailed calibration. I am still new to this hobby so Im not 100 % versed on the advantages the Avia disk will provide.:D

ransac

09-22-09, 02:21 PM

Just used the DB meter with the "pink noise" test tones from the marantz receiver. Im looking into Avia but my system is not yet complete.:( Im using a funky old set of Pioneer bookshelf speakers that came form a HTIB until I get some in wall speakers as my permanent surrounds. I have not yet decided on 5.1 or 7.1 as wall space is limited with the shape of my room.:mad: Once the permanent set up is in, I'll be looking into doing a more detailed calibration. I am still new to this hobby so Im not 100 % versed on the advantages the Avia disk will provide.:DOne of the benefits of the Avia disk is the tutorials. You can rent Avia II from NetFlix and maybe from Blockbuster/Hollywood Video.

AKishkovsky

09-22-09, 02:31 PM

One of the benefits of the Avia disk is the tutorials. You can rent Avia II from NetFlix and maybe from Blockbuster/Hollywood Video.

I'll definitly give Avia a whirl then, once Ive got my rear channels set in stone. I Overlooked the MRAC accoustic thingamajig that the sr5002 touts, any experiance with this, Seems kinda pointless after manually setting the EQ. I know its not audyssey, any advantages there?

ransac

09-22-09, 03:41 PM

I'll definitely give Avia a whirl then, once Ive got my rear channels set in stone. I Overlooked the MRAC acoustic thingamajig that the sr5002 touts, any experience with this, Seems kinda pointless after manually setting the EQ. I know its not audyssey, any advantages there?This is an option. The manual is a little lacking in information about MRAC, but if you start on Page 30 and follow the instructions, it will do a decent job. Read all the instructions as it tells you it will set some speakers to large and you should reset them to small. This is good for setting the distance and may be OK for levels.

Another advantage of the Avia disk is it works through the entire signal path. MRAC only works through the AVR to speaker path.

If you have a NetFlix account, just rent the Avia II disk. Like the THX calibration feature on some DVDs, Avia also helps you set some of your video. If you buy the Avia disk, you should also get filters that are used in some of the video calibrations. I actually found this useful. Not as good as having your TV professionally calibrated, but better than the factory defaults. Like the speaker calibration, the video calibration results takes some getting used to. At first, your system will sound depressed and your video will seem dark. This is because you no longer have big peaks in your sound system that you may be used to hearing and your video won't have too much red push or too high of brightness or contrast. Just give these setting a chance. If you don't like them, you can always restore the defaults.

Mark S.

09-24-09, 04:39 PM

Hello everyone, I have been having issues figuring out what is wrong with my SVS PC-12 PLUS sub and I am hoping someone here has some ideas. Prior to this, I have been speaking to some very helpful folks in the Pioneer SC-05/07 forums, and also going back and forth e-mailing SVS technical support. They have been very helpful and nice to deal with but we still have not arrived at a conclusion. I will try and summarize this as much as I can, sorry if its a bit long but I feel I need to give you guys a lot of information to answer all of the things you will need to know to help me:

My basic problem is that the sub bottoms out (makes a "knocking" noise) extremely easily, at both extremely low volumes, and at high volumes - doesn't matter. If I turn the sub down such that it doesn't bottom out, it's as if I am not even running a sub woofer at all and it doesn't do much of anything (I put my ear right up to it and look at the driver I can hardly see/hear/feel anything happening). Here are some facts:

Equipment I am using a Pioneer Elite SC-05 receiver. I also have an Onkyo 906 receiver and Paradigm Servo 15 sub hooked up in the same room for testing purposes. There are zero issues with the Onkyo/Paradigm setup, and I can get the sub to play uncomfortably loud with no bottoming issues.

LocationThe room is roughly 14 ft from projector screen to couch, and 12 feet wide. There is an open room behind the couch, and a small open room to the left (bar). I've tried out the sub both in a corner, and also near the right hand wall halfway between the front & rear speakers - same results all the time no matter where I put the sub.

Testing Summary I've spent hours and hours testing different things. All sub settings are as follows: Sub gain initially set to 1/2 (12 O'clock), 20Hz mode, no port plugs, crossover disabled. Test material was the "Ironman" blu-ray, the scene where he walks out of the cave near the beginning, and also the "Master & Commander" blu-ray, using the canon fight scenes. Here are my most relevant findings:

1) Onkyo 906 receiver, SVS sub, audyseey settings used for the Servo 15 (i just switched the sub over to SVS so it still thought it was running the Paradigm sub) - regular bottoming at any volume above what I need to actually hear the sub playing.

2) Onkyo 906 receiver, SVS sub, full audyssey calibration using the SVS sub, regular bottoming at any volume above what I need to actually hear the sub playing.

3) Pioneer SC-05 receiver, SVS, full MCACC calibration, regular bottoming at any volume above what I need to actually hear the sub playing.

4) Upstairs in my house, in a room with about 4X the volume, 20' ceilings, etc. I have a small Paradigm Ultracube 10 - this sub puts out significantly more bass in that big room than the SVS does in my smaller HT room if I set the SVS sub such that it won't bottom out. I also have a friend with a Paradigm DSP 10 that in a larger room, puts out considerably more bass than the SVS, and lastly I have a friend with a Paradigm HTIB 10" sub that puts out significantly more bass than the SVS sub. All of those subs have smaller drivers, less power, less physical size, and are in larger rooms.

5) In-receiver sub level set around -7.5dB by Audyssey/MCACC, receiver master volume between about -5.0 and -12.0 depending on if its a Dolby Digital (Ironman) or DTS track (Master & Commander) (DTS is louder).

6) Adding a port plug and using 16Hz mode exhibits the same issues

7) A very similar thing happened to my Paradigm Servo 15 sub many years ago, the dealer agreed it wasn't right, replaced the driver assmebly, and it's worked perfectly ever since.

8) Test sweeps from a test DVD sound nice and loud and don't bottom the sub, but I've been told this can't be compared to DTS/DD HD audio tracks. The DTS test sweep resulted in some serious "port chuffing" noises as it approached 20Hz, the Dolby Digital sweep did not.

9) Speakers (Paradigm Studio 20's all round) set to "small" and crossover at 80hz. Also tested with speakers set to "full range" and no difference in the sub bottoming out.

10) I hooked the sub up directly to a cd player to eliminate the receivers as a possible issue, and it played all of the sound through the sub as expected, but I couldn't turn it up loud enough to hear any bass without the voices getting too loud. It worked though.

11) I do not have an SPL meter but I've ordered one and will be doing tests the second it arrives. If I can't hear/feel any bass at all, I would think the SPL isn't very high.

So, I would really appreciate any input you guys might have. SVS tech support is telling me that it sounds like I am overpowering the sub and making it bottom, but my issue is that there is no middle ground - it either has to be turned down so low that I might as well not have a sub (I can't even hear/feel it) or else it bottoms out at any gain level above that (1/2). I would think there should be a huge range somewhere between not hearing it at all and where it bottoms out that I can play it in, just like every other sub I've ever experienced. Also, with much smaller subs producing significantly more bass in significantly larger rooms I've got to believe the SVS is better than what I'm experiencing. I've read some glowing reviews that convinced me to go over budget and buy one of these but now I'm extremely worried. I've got 15 days left to return it, but unfrotunately I will need to pay hundreds of dollars to ship it back (its massive) and I really can't afford to do that.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, I really just want to get this resolved!

Mark

Adamg (Ret-Navy)

09-24-09, 04:50 PM

Mark S.

09-24-09, 05:00 PM

I am no expert by any means. With that said I have two recommendations. First is to post this in the Audio Area section "Subwoofer, Bass and Transducers" thread. You will get more exposure from the Sub experts that watch that thread.

Second recommendation. You said when you play the test tone sweeps everything sounded fine. It leads me to suspect you may have a Gain set in the LFE setup section of your amp. Or your Blu ray player is boosting the LFE channel. Try looking in the Rcvrs setup menu and make sure you don't have the LFE channel gain boosted. I know int he Onkyo you can trim the LFE channel for the various sound formats such as HD DTS and the like. Perhaps the problem lies there.

I've since learned that these test tones can't be compared to a movie track as the movie tracks are way more dynamic.

The sub level in the receivers is usually set around -7.5dB by either MCACC or Audyssey, and I leave it there. Apparently anywhere around -5.0dB is normal. On the Onkyo there is a "double bass" option and the issues exist with or without this option on.

Thanks!

Mark

Adamg (Ret-Navy)

09-24-09, 05:26 PM

Mark, I think you missed my point. Let me restate it differently.

Go into your amps Setup Menu, Hardware, Analog Multich. Check here to make sure you don't have the sub input sensitivity set too high.

Go into your amps Setup Menu, Audio Adjust, LFE Level. Go in here and set the LFE level to NEGATIVE 10 on the sound format that your are currently using in the blu ray movie. Test again. If still bottoming out sub go back in here and reduce the LFE further. Worth a try.

Mark S.

09-24-09, 05:38 PM

FoxyMulder

09-25-09, 09:00 AM

Bob Whitefield

09-25-09, 09:24 AM

I posted this in the wrong SVS thread so will try again here.

I have an SVS PB-12 Plus 2 and i'm wondering if you can safely place your subwoofer near your receiver and Blu Ray player. I ask that as i wonder about the strong magnetic fields in subwoofers and if they would cause issues with receivers and players. I'm talking about the receiver being within 2 or 3 feet of the subwoofer.

Anyone have their subwoofer close to their receiver and can it cause problems because of the magnetic field ?
Magnetic fields won't affect a receiver or Blu-ray player, and three feet is plenty of distance anyway.

But you don't want the subwoofer vibrating the player, it will make the servo work overtime trying to track the disc.

Adamg (Ret-Navy)

09-25-09, 09:48 AM

Hummmm, I have had my Play-Station 3 sitting on top of one of my NSD12's for months now and no problems. The Sub enclosure itself does not seem to noticeably vibrate. My only option would be to put the AS EQ1 on the sub and move the PS3 to where the EQ1 is right now. Does anyone know if the vibration from the sub would be a problem to the AS EQ1?

dewd

09-25-09, 09:54 AM

I didn't think my Ultra/2 vibrated much either until I put my turntable on top of it. At nearly 200 pounds and solid, it seemed as if it would be OK. However, records would not play at all - they skipped constantly.

So I advise not setting your PS3 on top of the sub.

FoxyMulder

09-25-09, 10:35 AM

Magnetic fields won't affect a receiver or Blu-ray player, and three feet is plenty of distance anyway.

But you don't want the subwoofer vibrating the player, it will make the servo work overtime trying to track the disc.

Thats good then. I have my receiver and player on vibration cushioning platforms with additional material inbetween each so that isn't an issue.

Thanks for your prompt reply.

teknoguy

09-25-09, 01:41 PM

I posted this in the wrong SVS thread so will try again here.

I have an SVS PB-12 Plus 2 and i'm wondering if you can safely place your subwoofer near your receiver and Blu Ray player. I ask that as i wonder about the strong magnetic fields in subwoofers and if they would cause issues with receivers and players. I'm talking about the receiver being within 2 or 3 feet of the subwoofer.

Anyone have their subwoofer close to their receiver and can it cause problems because of the magnetic field ?

My Pci 20-39 is about 2' away from my equipment rack and no problems.
Magnetic field would not be that strong to interfere.

-t

lalakersfan34

09-25-09, 01:48 PM

I posted this in the wrong SVS thread so will try again here.

I have an SVS PB-12 Plus 2 and i'm wondering if you can safely place your subwoofer near your receiver and Blu Ray player. I ask that as i wonder about the strong magnetic fields in subwoofers and if they would cause issues with receivers and players. I'm talking about the receiver being within 2 or 3 feet of the subwoofer.

Anyone have their subwoofer close to their receiver and can it cause problems because of the magnetic field ?

As others have said, you should be fine. My PS3, Xbox 360, and receiver are all within a couple inches of my 15" subwoofer. No issues whatsoever.

nautilus808

09-29-09, 09:04 PM

I recently purchased the pb12 nsd. Should there be a port plug included? I still have the box and searched thru it.

ransac

09-29-09, 09:07 PM

I recently purchased the pb12 nsd. Should there be a port plug included? I still have the box and searched thru it.No. The NSD line does not feature tunable ports. It is what it is. You have to go to the Plus line to get this.

lalakersfan34

09-29-09, 09:07 PM

I recently purchased the pb12 nsd. Should there be a port plug included? I still have the box and searched thru it.

The PB12-NSD is designed as a ported sub with a fixed tune. It doesn't have multiple port tunings like the Plus and Ultra, so there's no need for a port plug.

teligent

09-30-09, 04:45 PM

TheFactor

09-30-09, 04:53 PM

Hey Guys,

I am in the process of completing my HT setup, which is approx. 21x16x7.5 in an open (fully finished & carpeted) basement of roughly 21x46x7.5 (7000 cubic feet). I recently purchased Energy RC70s (front), RCLCR (center), RC50s (side surround), RC10s (back surround). My Receiver is HK AVR-630.

I guess for room that size I would need a pair of 12" or 15" subs. I am considering brands like ED, Hsu, SVS, Outlaw, Epik to name a few. I don't know much of this stuff so I am seeking your inputs. Can anyone make a recommendation given my setup.

My budget is approx. $1000 for the pair. Thanks!

With SVS and your budget i'd go with either 2 pb12nsd subs or 1 ultra pb13 but the 13 will be around 500 dollars over your budget, I'd stretch for the single pb13 myself. As far as the other subs you mentioned im not familar with there prices or performance levels .

AKishkovsky

09-30-09, 08:25 PM

Like the title says, I think Im putting the hurt on my 20-39 pc+ :eek:. There a part when the blockade runner ship is being swallowed by the star destroyer and shortly after the air lock gets torched open by some storm troopers and Vader dude himself.

Theres a poopload of LFE in this sequence and theres a load clang that occurs right before/during when the the door is getting torched off.

Like Ive mentioned, Im running the 16hz tune with my gain knob at 10oclock. Less than half. I did measure with an spl meter. My sub is 15.5' from listening position. My receiver is set at -1db on the sub/receiver settings.

I have played this scene twice with same results at the 00 db/reference level.

The sound is really clean up to that point but right before the door torching part its starts to sound like a metalic rattle like pots and pans clanging for a split second, followed by a sound that resembles a firecraker going of inside a small enclosed space, or a ballping hammer hitting the rear end of a thick frying pan.:confused::confused::eek::confused::(

Does anyone here know what scenen Im talking about in the openeing sequence, Anyone else had this problem. I definatly dont wanna blow up my sub as I do not have nor will have the funds for a very long time to replace it if it turnes into plastic and aluminum shards.:(

Please help.????????????:confused:

Is it my sub? Or is it the sound effects of the movie.???????????

TheFactor

09-30-09, 08:32 PM

jason brent

09-30-09, 08:35 PM

AKishkovsky

09-30-09, 08:40 PM

Sounds like your pushing your driver to hard and over its limits. Why not just turn down your gain a little for that scene :confused: Instead of abusing your sub just my 2 cents .

I guess thats my question, Should I permanently reduce the Gain? And then turn up the receiver setting so that the SPL is at 75db at listening position?

The obvious answer was to turn down my volume however the next question stands, How do I know what movies I can watch at reference level and what movies cant I listen to at reference level. This happened by accident for sure, I dont wanna risk blowing up my sub obviously.:(

Also, I am aware that if I remove the port plug and switch the sub back to 20hz mode I gain some headroom, am I thinking along the right lines?

TheFactor

09-30-09, 08:52 PM

I guess thats my question, Should I permanently reduce the Gain? And then turn up the receiver setting so that the SPL is at 75db at listening position?

The obvious answer was to turn down my volume however the next question stands, How do I know what movies I can watch at reference level and what movies cant I listen to at reference level. This happened by accident for sure, I dont wanna risk blowing up my sub obviously.:(

Yes you dont want to keep over driving your sub or you will damage it but a few times only you should be ok depending how long and far your pushing it past its limits .Unfortunately every movie is going to have different lfe levels and recorded differently I would just turn down your gain a little on your sub. Your probably running your sub 2 decibels hotter anyway depending what disk for test tones you used, even though your showing 75 accross the board. It really sounds like you need a matching sub or upgrade if its not satisfying you anymore but anyway maybe try calibrating all your speakers around 1 or 2 decibels higher than your sub, I hope this helps .

AKishkovsky

09-30-09, 08:57 PM

Yes you dont want to keep over driving your sub or you will damage it but a few times only you should be ok depending how long and far your pushing it past its limits .Unfortunately every movie is going to have different lfe levels and recorded differently I would just turn down your gain a little on your sub. Your probably running your sub 2 decibels hotter anyway depending what disk for test tones you used, even though your showing 75 accross the board. It really sounds like you need a matching sub or upgrade if its not satisfying you anymore but anyway maybe try calibrating all your speakers around 1 or 2 decibels higher than your sub, I hope this helps .

Much thanks for the info, Ill definatly drop the gain a bit.
Another question, Is the db setting in the receiver menu the same as adjusting the gain on the sub or is it just volume control. Are these the same or different???

jason brent

09-30-09, 09:02 PM

Much thanks for the info, Ill definatly drop the gain a bit.
Another question, Is the db setting in the receiver menu the same as adjusting the gain on the sub or is it just volume control. Are these the same or different???

The db setting in the receiver menu (also referred to as lfe trim) is more of a fine adjustment and the gain on the sub is more coarse. I like to 'get close' with the gain knob, then fine tune with the processor/receiver.

AKishkovsky

09-30-09, 09:08 PM

The db setting in the receiver menu (also referred to as lfe trim) is more of a fine adjustment and the gain on the sub is more coarse. I like to 'get close' with the gain knob, then fine tune with the processor/receiver.

Equally thank you, This actually sheds some light on how I should approach this.

The question came up whether or not Im still satisfied with this sub.....Well.....Im more than satisfied, As the sub is now, even in the wrong gain setting, This thing is shaking stuff off the walls in the whole house. I dont think turning down gain will hurt that visceral feeling too much at all. What confused me was that we had measured everything with an spl meter and nothing seemed out of whack. I am however still Ignorant to many things audio. Still learning. Like I mentioned before, I just dont want to break my new toy.:D

TheFactor

09-30-09, 10:25 PM

Much thanks for the info, Ill definatly drop the gain a bit.
Another question, Is the db setting in the receiver menu the same as adjusting the gain on the sub or is it just volume control. Are these the same or different???

YW and to the best of my knowledge its the same and just a matter of convenience but I could stand corrected. You could always just use your avr with your remote instead of the gain adj knob on your sub . The Only time you wouldnt really want to use your avr to adjust your sub gain would be if your above 0 and in the +1 or above on your avr were you never want to be anyway.

TheFactor

09-30-09, 10:35 PM

Equally thank you, This actually sheds some light on how I should approach this.

The question came up whether or not Im still satisfied with this sub.....Well.....Im more than satisfied, As the sub is now, even in the wrong gain setting, This thing is shaking stuff off the walls in the whole house. I dont think turning down gain will hurt that visceral feeling too much at all. What confused me was that we had measured everything with an spl meter and nothing seemed out of whack. I am however still Ignorant to many things audio. Still learning. Like I mentioned before, I just dont want to break my new toy.:D

Glad your satisfied with your new toy :) and sounds like youve done everything wright dialing it in you just need to fine tune it a little more and personalize now to your needs . Your just going threw your learning curve like all of us here have gone threw and like myself am still going threw . Enjoy your new toy and just treat it with respect and it will reward you with many years of house shaking bass :D P.S DID I MENTION SVS rocks !!!!!!!

JimP

10-01-09, 01:02 AM

cuzed2

10-01-09, 09:41 AM

Hey Guys,

I am in the process of completing my HT setup, which is approx. 21x16x7.5 in an open (fully finished & carpeted) basement of roughly 21x46x7.5 (7000 cubic feet). I recently purchased Energy RC70s (front), RCLCR (center), RC50s (side surround), RC10s (back surround). My Receiver is HK AVR-630.

I guess for room that size I would need a pair of 12" or 15" subs. I am considering brands like ED, Hsu, SVS, Outlaw, Epik to name a few. I don't know much of this stuff so I am seeking your inputs. Can anyone make a recommendation given my setup.

My budget is approx. $1000 for the pair. Thanks!

teligent,

FWIW:
I have an open floor-plan basement of similar size (cubic footage). The HT portion is 15.5' x 19.0' x 7.5' tall. I am running a pair of SVS 20-39's with 300 watts going to each one.

I would rate my LFE as very good to slightly impressive - but not awesome

sizzle24

10-01-09, 10:10 AM

Yippeee!

Ordered my PB13 Ultra and it will be here tomorrow. My System:

The room is 24X19 and setup for media.

Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-01
Television: Mitsubishu Diamond 73"
DVD Player: Pioneer BDP 51FD (Blu-Ray)
Center: Def Tech CLR 2002
Fronts: Def Tech BP 7004
Sub: Miller & Kreisel MK 125 II- Replaced with SVS
Rear Surround: Polk Tsi-300
Back Surround: Polk Tsi-300

Thanks guys for all of the feedback on this awesome sub. I can't wait to get her fired up!

TheFactor

10-01-09, 01:49 PM

sizzle24

10-01-09, 01:59 PM

Textured black with curved metal grill. I'm going to start with one, but I am pretty sure I will add a second after a few weeks...

Happy times.... :)

teknoguy

10-01-09, 02:07 PM

TheFactor

10-01-09, 02:31 PM

Textured black with curved metal grill. I'm going to start with one, but I am pretty sure I will add a second after a few weeks...

Happy times.... :)

Good choice thats going to look sharp

AKishkovsky

10-01-09, 05:00 PM

AKiskovsky,

I must have missed it but if not, you really should be using an SPL meter to get your subwoofer into the correct ballpark.

The next step is to check your response curve to be sure you don't have any huge peaks that could cause your sub to sound one note---ish.

If you notice in the current SVS EQ1 thread, many people are finding that moving their subs around to a better "flatter" position does a lot of good. This is something I would have thought that they should have already known. Guess I was wrong....again. lol

I am using an spl meter. Also, I have decided to remove the port plug and adjust the hz setting back to 20 instead of 16hz. It was told to me that although the sub plays lower at 16hz, it gives up a good amount of dynamic headroom. I am curious to know how much real worl difference this will make, Is the amount of headroom lost with the 16hz tune that significant?

I will play with it extensively this weekend, If in fact I just need to turn the master volume down with certain flicks I will probably keep the 16hz tune.

BTW, If I 4got to mention it, My room is 14x22x11. Much smaller than the space it was in at my father in laws house (previous owner). At his home, at the 20hz tune, although run a little hot, never bottomed out or sounded strained. Im a little confused still as to why the sub reached its limits the way that it did in a smaller space.

In any case all your Guys' help has been great.

Stryker412

10-01-09, 09:43 PM

I have a question about my PB10. We had moved in temporarily with my wife's parents while we waited for our new house. I don't remember if I changed the settings on the sub or the AVR but I noticed once we got to our new house that the bass was lacking. We went from a small bedroom to a huge living room with hardwood floors open to the kitchen/dining room.

I'm just curious if someone can give me suggestions for what the gain and phase should be set to?

TheFactor

10-01-09, 09:47 PM

Stryker412

10-02-09, 07:17 AM

Well phase was set at zero when I checked last night, and I moved it to about 1/2 way. I noticed a difference but not the huge bass punch I got at my other house. I remember the scene from "Finding Nemo" when Darla taps the fish tank, it rattled all my windows. I also have a new AVR since then so I'm checking all the settings to be sure. Just not sure what the ideal should be.

dewd

10-02-09, 10:17 AM

Did you recalibrate your speakers for the new house? The settings used in your old room are not transferable. Each room is different.

Plus, as others have said, size matters. The bigger your room the bigger you sub needs to be.

Stryker412

10-02-09, 10:18 AM

I did calibrate the speakers yes, perhaps I'll try again. Like I said phase was turned all the way down and that seemed to help some. Also gain is about 1/2 way as well. I just don't want to turn them both up too high and do damage to the sub.

Mark S.

10-02-09, 12:41 PM

I am using an spl meter. Also, I have decided to remove the port plug and adjust the hz setting back to 20 instead of 16hz. It was told to me that although the sub plays lower at 16hz, it gives up a good amount of dynamic headroom. I am curious to know how much real worl difference this will make, Is the amount of headroom lost with the 16hz tune that significant?

I will play with it extensively this weekend, If in fact I just need to turn the master volume down with certain flicks I will probably keep the 16hz tune.

BTW, If I 4got to mention it, My room is 14x22x11. Much smaller than the space it was in at my father in laws house (previous owner). At his home, at the 20hz tune, although run a little hot, never bottomed out or sounded strained. Im a little confused still as to why the sub reached its limits the way that it did in a smaller space.

In any case all your Guys' help has been great.

I have a SVS PC-12 Plus and to make a long story short it bottoms WAY too easily and its output is very underwhelming. SVS is sending me a new amp to see if that fixes the problem. I'll let you know what happenes if I find a solution, perhaps it could help you too. Personally I think I have a bad driver/voice coil.

Mark

AKishkovsky

10-02-09, 05:00 PM

I have a SVS PC-12 Plus and to make a long story short it bottoms WAY too easily and its output is very underwhelming. SVS is sending me a new amp to see if that fixes the problem. I'll let you know what happenes if I find a solution, perhaps it could help you too. Personally I think I have a bad driver/voice coil.

Mark

I was able to recalibrate without the port plug at the native 20hz tune. I did a test run this morning at reference level with the sub a hair higher than 75db. It churns out the sound now without breathing hard.

I did some research on the port plug's impact on SPL and SV claims it reduces headroom by a total of 3 db with each plug used. I think its quite a bit more than that.

I tried the 16hz tune at -10 below reference and it still strained and rattled a little bit. Im thinking that for a small room 16hz would absolutely kick ass, however due to the open space that goes into the kitchen, it just doesn't quite keep up at that setting. 20hz rocks though.

I am a little bummed about not being able to use the 16hz setting, However To my ear, there isn't much difference in sound and impact at the 20hz setting. honestly, I havent lost anything.

Everything seams good now.

Maybe someday, when the Lotto gods smile on me I can get a trio of Ultras. But like I said b4, Im really happy with the plus now that is dialed in a little better.:)

jchong

10-02-09, 07:29 PM

AKishkovsky

10-02-09, 08:42 PM

As it happens, Ilkka has tested the SVS 20-39PC+ in both 16Hz and 20Hz tune. From his CEA-2010 output table the difference doesn't seem to be that much, the 20Hz tune's max output is only 0.8 dB higher than the 16Hz tune (average from 20-80Hz).

Have a look here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/5748-cea-2010-standard-compilation.html

Its hard to compare charted test results with what Im hearing. It is very possible that the layout of my space affects the difference in output between the two settings, 16hz and 20hz in a more profound way. I would think that a difference of 4hz and -3 db of volume would not be very noticible. However, the Sub does in fact begin to make disconcerting noises when played at a lower master volume with the 16hz tune, as opposed to reference level volume with no port plug @ 20 hz tune. It seams like at the 20 hz tune there is no strain whatsoever. I listened to Star Wars episode IV again this morning with master volume turned down to -10 db vs 0/reference with the 16hz setting. The sub began making a crackling noise like pebbles being tossed around in a pringles container, not as bad as reference level where there was a loud clang at the scene Ive mentioned before. When the port plug was removed and gain/trim were reset to somewhere between 75 and 80 db's on the spl meter, I re ran the same sequence at 0/reference and it played flawlessly (with the exception of terrorizing my dogs).

Should I be contacting SV to see if my unit is in need of servicing???? It is passed down to me by a relative who is supremely meticulous about his audio gear. I guarantee it was never abused prior to me owning it.!

Adamg (Ret-Navy)

10-07-09, 01:30 AM

lalakersfan34

10-07-09, 02:44 AM

Anyone know what the Sensitivity rating is for the PB12 NSD? What is the rated max SPL for this unit?

From the Frequency response curve chart on the SVS web site the line hovers around the 93db point. Is that my answer? 93db

Follow up question. If I have dual PB12's running I get an additional 4 to 6 db's as a result of coupling, right? So my Max SPL with two units will be in the neighborhood of 97 to 99dbs?

SVS doesn't publish any of the T/S parameters for its woofers, so it's not possible to know the exact sensitivity of SVS subs. However, I am certain the frequency response graph you saw on the SVS site is not indicative of maximum output. The graph is simply meant to demonstrate the general shape of the sub's FR. As you can see, it's pretty linear. The PB12-NSD should top out closer to 108-110dB in 2m GP tests at certain frequencies.

You are correct with regard to the effects of adding a second subwoofer. Assuming you set up and calibrate the subs correctly you'll gain a good 4-6dB of output with a second sub.

Adamg (Ret-Navy)

10-07-09, 01:45 PM

SVS doesn't publish any of the T/S parameters for its woofers, so it's not possible to know the exact sensitivity of SVS subs. However, I am certain the frequency response graph you saw on the SVS site is not indicative of maximum output. The graph is simply meant to demonstrate the general shape of the sub's FR. As you can see, it's pretty linear. The PB12-NSD should top out closer to 108-110dB in 2m GP tests at certain frequencies.

You are correct with regard to the effects of adding a second sub woofer. Assuming you set up and calibrate the subs correctly you'll gain a good 4-6dB of output with a second sub.

lalakersfan34,

Thanks for the reply. The reason I am asking this question is I was reading another thread about "reference" level. I am trying to determine if my system is capable of achieving Reference level playback.

I read that the Sub Woofer are normally the weak link in the chain. So without any published spl data on the PB12's or test results there is no way to determine if they can or can not. You mention they should be able to reach 108 to 110dbs. May I ask in a very nice way, how you come to this conclusion? Is there some test data you are drawing upon, or is this more or less what your gut tells you?

I also understand the room has allot to do with the outcome, but under laboratory testing conditions, does this Sub or two of them running under the AS EQ1 Equalizer have the capability to produce Movie Reference Level output?

ransac

10-07-09, 04:47 PM

lalakersfan34,

Thanks for the reply. The reason I am asking this question is I was reading another thread about "reference" level. I am trying to determine if my system is capable of achieving Reference level playback.

I read that the Sub Woofer are normally the weak link in the chain. So without any published spl data on the PB12's or test results there is no way to determine if they can or can not. You mention they should be able to reach 108 to 110dbs. May I ask in a very nice way, how you come to this conclusion? Is there some test data you are drawing upon, or is this more or less what your gut tells you?

I also understand the room has allot to do with the outcome, but under laboratory testing conditions, does this Sub or two of them running under the AS EQ1 Equalizer have the capability to produce Movie Reference Level output?HERE (http://www.avtalk.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20780) is the measurements made by AV Talk in 2008. There has been some redesign since then. It shows it is really peaked at 105DB. At 110, it just falls apart below 50Hz.

Adamg (Ret-Navy)

10-07-09, 05:39 PM

HERE (http://www.avtalk.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20780) is the measurements made by AV Talk in 2008. There has been some redesign since then. It shows it is really peaked at 105DB. At 110, it just falls apart below 50Hz.

ransac,

Thank you kindly for the link.

My take aways from the test results (in the link provided) clearly indicate that this sub operates the flattest around the 90db range, do you concur?

Add to that the coupling energy bonus gained by running duals of maybe 4 to 6 dbs, and I could see a nice flat performance down to say 18hz @ 94 to 96dbs without suffering serious distortion. Of course that is assuming no room environment problems. Does that sound correct to you?

Ron Temple

10-07-09, 05:47 PM

Ilkka's tests with the PB12NSD look considerably better...located at Home Theater Shack. Dolby reference level is 85dbs average, allowing for 20db (105db) peaks in the main channels and 30db (115db) peaks in the LFE channel, at the listening position. There are other factors that add to this, colocation bonuses with the main channels which push the numbers up even higher. The testing above is measured 2 meters, outdoors. You're going to get better performance (usually) inside due to room and boundary gain plus colocation bonus. At some frequencies, as much as 5-10dbs (sometimes higher), room and placement dependent. The PB12NSD, unless in a small room with plenty of gain, is very unlikely to measure peaks higer than 110-112dbs. It's a very nice sub, but without multiples, it's just not going to get there. Reference level is very loud for most of us. I wouldn't recommend even trying it with just an AVR to power the mains unless they are very efficient.

Adamg (Ret-Navy)

10-07-09, 06:04 PM

I Have Klipshc Synergy F3's as my mains, RC62 as the front. Two PB12's equalized via the AS EQ1 and a new Onkyo TX-NR5007. I know the surrounds are not even close. They are Klipsch Synergy S2's and S1's.

This is purely an exercise to understand where my equipment stands. I appreciate all the input and comments. I am very much new to this HT stuff. Since retiring this has become a passion for me.

lalakersfan34

10-07-09, 07:34 PM

Adamg,

I apologize I was in a hurry to get out the door this morning so I couldn't respond earlier. My references for the PB12-NSD's output numbers are information I've gleaned while talking with SVS tech support as well as Ilkka's test results on Home Theater Shack. Ilkka's frequency sweep results for the PB12-NSD can be found HERE (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/8151-svs-pb12-nsd-2-a.html). In addition, Ilkka did some tests using the CEA-2010 methodology - HERE (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/5748-cea-2010-standard-compilation.html) are those results.

Though the results indicate that the PB12-NSD can't hit 108-110dB consistently and at single-digit distortion levels, it can indeed be in the 108-110dB range for a good portion of its frequency response. Obviously it cannot achieve those SPL's in the deepest bass, but it's a good performer overall.

As Ron Temple already explained, a single PB12-NSD will not be able to achieve reference level output in anything but a tiny room. However, a pair should be able to reach reference level in a moderately sized room if they are co-located. Also, as RT said, reference level is quite loud - much louder than most people like to listen at home. While chasing after reference capability is an admirable goal, it may not be relevant unless you really like to crank it up. Hope this helps.

ribbit

10-07-09, 07:54 PM

Add to that the coupling energy bonus gained by running duals of maybe 4 to 6 dbs, and I could see a nice flat performance down to say 18hz @ 94 to 96dbs without suffering serious distortion. Of course that is assuming no room environment problems. Does that sound correct to you?

that and also consider that those tests were done outdoors ... so basically, you will also have room gain :)

ransac

10-07-09, 08:09 PM

that and also consider that those tests were done outdoors ... so basically, you will also have room gain :)And, I believe these are done with sweep tones. That pushes the sub to 105-110db for an extended period. If/when you get 110db, it will most likely be a spike meant to shock (and thrill) you.

Adamg (Ret-Navy)

10-07-09, 09:18 PM

lalakersfan34

10-07-09, 09:29 PM

lalakersfan34,

You answered every question with clarity and precision. The links provided the exact data I wanted. Thanks.

BTW I am not chasing Reference Level performance. I was just curious where the PB12's stand in relation. I do like the volume a bit high, but that is mostly due to loss of hearing from quite a noisy career path.

Glad to help. I think that second link is a great link if you're interested in knowing how the PB12-NSD compares with a lot of other subs in terms of output. A setup with two PB12-NSD's will provide powerful, visceral, shake-your-room bass in all but very large spaces. I previously owned two PB10-NSD's so I know they're great subs. You have a great setup. Enjoy!

Adamg (Ret-Navy)

10-07-09, 09:50 PM

Yeah, it is a good link to give to guys who come in and ask for Sub recommendations. The SVS line up tested well.

mustangjoe

10-08-09, 12:41 PM

After searching and reading hundreds of good, informative posts here I chose the SVS PB12-NSD as my first serious sub purchase. The choices and costs of subwoofers are amazing and I am sure there are many really good products to be had. Just to post how my purchase and delivery went with SVS if anyone is interested:

I ordered my SVS online after talking to a helpful & informative SVS rep. last Wednesday. I got a confirmation email shortly thereafter confirming my order. I received a UPS shipping confirmation the next day when my order left SVS's warehouse. Ohio to Socal-six days shipping time it says. Tuesday I received a automated phone call from UPS saying that my SVS delivery is scheduled for the next day and signature receipt is required. No time frame given, just be there I guess. No problem I can make time for something like this.
Wednesday morning UPS is at my door. Before 11am even. Very cool.

Here's a few photos of how my SVS sub was packed:

154670

154671

154672

154673

154674

Double boxed, bagged and lined with another cardboard top and bottom with thick foam inserts glued to the cardboard corners. One small puncture on the outside box one by two inches in size. No big deal thankfully. That's a twelve inch ruler leaning on the sub just to give you an idea of the size of this thing. Have a helper if you can, it big and kind of heavy. I flipped it on it's side to cut the tape on the bottom and then lifted the boxes off. All in all it looks like SVS does a really good job packing these things. SVS included an owners manual cd with pdf files (needs to be labeled as a cd, at first I thought it could have been a dvd), extra fuses and a quick setup sheet. No extra plugs or tuning devices with this model. A printed owners manual could have been helpful, but the cd worked fine too. Setup went really good once I figured out my Radio Shack spl meter ($45) and the Avia 2 dvd tests (Netflix).

Sound? Yeah, this thing rocks. Can be smooth and silky when adjusted right for music or rock your foundation if you want it to. Btw, for those with subfloors to your house it does make a difference, it really shakes. I have both cement foundation and subfloor (don't ask) and the subfloor area just somehow shakes, rocks and punches more.

Thanks to everybody for all the posts and info on this forum. It made my purchase and education all the better, not to mention my HT.

TheFactor

10-08-09, 01:50 PM

Very nice much congrats !!! Its the beginning of a new love affair :D It brings back memories of my PB12NSD your really going to enjoy it thats a great all arouind sub.

GrooveRite

10-11-09, 04:46 PM

lalakersfan34

10-11-09, 05:48 PM

GrooveRite

10-11-09, 09:44 PM

It all depends on how loud you want to listen. Your room is a little over 2,000 cubic feet which is beginning to get toward the larger side for the PB10-NSD. If you were in a separate home I'd say get the PB12-NSD no question. Given your current situation you may never get to use the extra output of the PB12-NSD, though, so if you don't think you'll ever listen really loud, the PB10-NSD might be just fine.

Thank you for your suggestion. I'm going to most likely get the PB10 as of now.

mintchris

10-11-09, 11:06 PM

Thank you for your suggestion. I'm going to most likely get the PB10 as of now.

I had a PB10 for a few weeks before upgrading to the PB12 and the 10 is a really nice sounding sub. You wont be disappointed at all.

lalakersfan34

10-12-09, 12:38 AM

Thank you for your suggestion. I'm going to most likely get the PB10 as of now.

Great choice. I had two PB10's and can tell you the PB10 is a great sub. Let us know what you think once you get it.

Zanorath

10-12-09, 02:41 AM

Recently got my PB13-Ultra and have a couple questions regarding the volume level of the sub.

1) I currently do not have the sub corner loaded, it is at the end of the couch, this is mainly for aesthetics as my living room itself isn't a very large room so I want my front stage to be as unobtrusive as possible and my AV rack is in the other side of the couch with the corner.

2) It is a great room style setting, so even though the living room is small, the entire room that the sub affects is 24'x11', and also has plenty of open space into the kitchen.

So given that, when I use Yamaha YPAO and the PB13-Ultra is set to 1/3rd gain, YPAO actually puts receiver gain on the sub, I need the gain on the sub to be able halfway for it to be matched up, though I've got the best sound by running YPAO at 1/3rd and raising the gain knob up to the 2/3rd level.

This ends up in a good sounding setup for the room, but it concerns me that such a highly regarded sub in terms of volume has to be turned up that high. My only point of reference is my old 12" Sony sub that was used in a 10x11 sealed room and was corner loaded. The "crappy" 200 watt sub was much much louder than the Ultra was in my current setting though the quality of the sound wasn't as good, though it wasn't as bad as some would guess.

So with my setting should I just give up and cornerload the Ultra, keep the gain at 2/3rd and not worry, or does something sound wrong? Pic attached for reference I would have to put it where the lamp is currently which would also offset my left front speaker closer to the TV which is also not ideal. This is all work in progress though, just got the home last month.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g126/Zanorath/Livingroom.jpg

JimP

10-12-09, 07:31 AM

Zan,

I wouldn't worry about the position of the gain knob relative to the one on the Sony sub. They're just not comparable.

Keeping the sub out of the corner prevents peaks that YPAO would have to correct. If you're not having any directional issues with the sub where it is, I'd leave it there. One other thing is the position of your front speakers. From the photo, they look like they may be too far apart.

NismoZ

10-12-09, 08:38 AM

Zanorath

10-12-09, 03:17 PM

Yeah the quality is definitely there, and there is sound I couldn't hear of feel before with the cheaper sub, the volume was my only concern. Mainly because to hear and feel the sounds that I couldn't before the sub has to be played at louder levels. Also I've seen videos of the excursion of the sub, likely being overdriven, but no matter how loud I go or what I play the sub never looks to have any movement.

As for the front stage, it's an option of either too far or too close. There is a hallway that you can't see in the pic between the right front and the right side of the tv, so if I put the right front speaker on the other side of the hallway it hugs the tv's right side. The speakers are equal distant to the center of the couch though and when in 2 channel the sound feels like it's coming from the tv. The total gap between the fronts is 10 feet.

mustangjoe

10-12-09, 03:30 PM

Congrats on your purchase mustangjoe!

I'm in the market for a sub and I'm leaning towards the PB10. I live in a tri-plex (3 family) house and the size of my living room is 20'x11' with ceiling height being 9 1/2'. For the people who have experience with both....how much of a difference is there between the PB10 and the PB12? Will the PB10 be enough for my room or would the PB12 be a better fit? I would love to get the PB12 but I'm not sure if my neighbors would appreciate me afterwards, lol. Then again, my family owns this building so I can get away with it as long as I don't crank it I suppose, lol.

I was also leaning toward the PB10 when shopping. I've never heard or seen either PB10's or 12's before. Just a lot of reviews and comments online and by phone. I'm sure now, that either the PB10 or the 12 would have been a good starting point. The PB10 not as large as the PB12 which can be helpful, smaller footprint (the 12 looks just plain huge imo), your significant other/family may appreciate that & costs about $120 less too. Looks like it may have the same amp as the PB12 as well. If you do go that route and you still need a little more bass/LFE you can maybe add another PB10 later. In my application I live in a detached house and my HT is about 2500sft and opens into a nearby dining room so I went for the PB12. And it helps to have a supportive wife :rolleyes:

If you do have a downstairs neighbor they will no doubt hear and feel this baby when it's cranked.

That said, I can't wait to add another PB12 though. There should be a warning label with these things: Subwoofers can be addicting. A lot is great, too much is even better!

Have fun with whatever you get.

counsil

10-12-09, 04:20 PM

TheFactor

10-12-09, 06:57 PM

May try switching the Phase and see if that helps first .

shortstack31489

10-14-09, 09:02 AM

so i am in the process of selling my subs but i will be purchasing svs shortly but my dilemma is the fact of whther i should get one 12nsd or two 10nsds? what do you all think? this will be going in a ver small room....will there be a huge difference between the two? thanks

NismoZ

10-14-09, 09:18 AM

shortstack31489

10-14-09, 09:23 AM

right now it is in a 12x12 room but will eventually be in a 16x18 room....both will have one door leading out but wiull be somehwta enclosed

mintchris

10-14-09, 10:12 AM

right now it is in a 12x12 room but will eventually be in a 16x18 room....both will have one door leading out but wiull be somehwta enclosed

2xPC12's!! Wont take up as much room as the boxes and will knock your socks off!

d_m1010

10-14-09, 10:18 AM

right now it is in a 12x12 room but will eventually be in a 16x18 room....both will have one door leading out but wiull be somehwta enclosed

I have the same dimensions with one sealed entrance. The dual PB12 Pluses in there are crazy!

NismoZ

10-14-09, 11:33 AM

right now it is in a 12x12 room but will eventually be in a 16x18 room....both will have one door leading out but wiull be somehwta enclosed

Either 2x10s ~$1000 or 1x12 $570? The pricing logic doesn't make sense for what you are asking. Whats your price limit?

shortstack31489

10-14-09, 11:57 AM

the two tens would definetely be the peak of my wallet....if the 12 will suffice i would of course like to save omney but if two tens would be better then i am willing to spend the extra cash

dewd

10-14-09, 01:56 PM

How about 2 PB12's - one new for $570 and one B-Stock for $470. Or, get the PB12 Plus for $949.

You can never have too much sub :D

Adamg (Ret-Navy)

10-14-09, 08:28 PM

Zanorath

10-14-09, 10:43 PM

Holy crap... no need to call Ed, so I had a chance to investigate more tonight and after moving to different areas of the room I decided that my listening position was the absolute worst spot in the room. So I did what no one wants to do with a 155lb sub, moved it. I moved it to the corner just to see what I would get from it and using the same sample music that I had just uneventfully listened to was BLOWN AWAY!

This wasn't just some small change in volume, the I could feel the bass hitting me, the walls rumbled, the floor shook. Not in any small way, this was the amazement plus more, that I had been expecting. So whether it stays in that corner or not is questionable, but I certainly know that the sub is not defective, and that it can't go back to where it was.

TheFactor

10-14-09, 11:10 PM

Well, I finally decided I need MORE BASS. Imagine that! Six months ago I had a Klipsch 12" Sub that I thought was incredible....Then I come in here and read all about this SVS PB12 NSD and how great it is. I order one. WOW, it is amazing...a few weeks go by and I can only think of how much better two would sound....I order another...WOW x 2...Then I read about this new EQ Hooziewhatszit thing. How it can fix the acoustic problems of your room. AS EQ1 Got it. WOW x4. But, wait, what would an Ultra do???? Don't you just wonder about that? I do. So just ordered two of them. I am now officially a Ultra Owner.

This has got to stop. Like Crack or something? OK so I am a Bass Addict. Is there a support group? I won't even go into the new 63inch Plasma, the new Onkyo TX-NR5007 Receiver and the new SVS speakers to add the High and Wide channels...I think I need professional help.
Welcome to my world and there is no help but its very nice here :D
Holy crap... no need to call Ed, so I had a chance to investigate more tonight and after moving to different areas of the room I decided that my listening position was the absolute worst spot in the room. So I did what no one wants to do with a 155lb sub, moved it. I moved it to the corner just to see what I would get from it and using the same sample music that I had just uneventfully listened to was BLOWN AWAY!

This wasn't just some small change in volume, the I could feel the bass hitting me, the walls rumbled, the floor shook. Not in any small way, this was the amazement plus more, that I had been expecting. So whether it stays in that corner or not is questionable, but I certainly know that the sub is not defective, and that it can't go back to where it was.

Nice !!! Thats how I feel but I got lucky and it hit HARD from the begining in its original placement :)

paulmcj

10-19-09, 06:17 PM

Looking for a quick consultation on a levels/setup issue. I am currently running a PB-12 Plus (last year's 12.3 driver version) along with an MFW15. I get few opportunities to really crank up a movie at home with a 3 year old that needs his sleep from time to time ... so I might run it about -5 to -7 when I get the chance. (other gear is onkyo 705 > emotiva XPA5 > AV123 Rockets/xomni/elt525m)

My main question is that I seem to bottom out or hit the limiter (*clap* sort of sound) on the PB12 Plus during a couple of the most heavy LFE moments in a couple movies. Rocket touching down in Wall-e, skidoosh, field fight in Hulk. It really only seems to be a problem on the very highest decible moment of LFE in each scene (split second), so it's not a common occurance by any means. Outside of that one 'extreme LFE' moment, the PB12+ and MFW15 are really putting out incredible bass.

Just wondering if I need to dial it down a bit or accept the fact that the PB12+ might hit its limits at one point in a movie or two out there.

mojomike

10-19-09, 06:23 PM

paulmcj

10-19-09, 06:37 PM

TheFactor

10-19-09, 06:55 PM

. I know it's not the Ultra, but I would have imagined the + and MFW being pretty comparable. Ah well, no one said doing the right thing would be easy.
Comparable except the plus is a 12.3 and the mfw is a 15 so I would think the smaller woofer would hit its limits first , just my 2 cents. But you probably get tighter more accurate bass with your plus I would imagine and total output going to the 15 .

deepstang

10-20-09, 08:19 AM

I recently talked to a member that upgraded from an eD A7-350 to a MFW-15, and he was blown away at how much "mid bass slam" he was missing out on. He said the eD could dig deep, but fell of sharply after 50hz. I now realize how important it is to me for a sub to perform strong from 20hz to 80hz. I would assume most impact and effects from movies (or drums in music) would be represented from the 30hz-70hz spread...so I should probably pay more attention to performance in that range.

The sub I am leaning towards is the PC-12 PLUS, and I was wondering how the "mid bass slam" would be...and if the sub rolls off early?

dewd

10-20-09, 11:28 AM

Is it possible that Audyssey did something funky since you have (somewhat) dis-similar subs? The PB12+ should outperform the MFW15 and the EQ applied to both may have negative effects on one of them. Have you tried your setup with just the PB12?

Snowmanick

10-20-09, 02:02 PM

Yeah, I've done a fairly decent job of calibrating the system (as a relative newbie). I've run Audessy and used a sound meter and dialed in each sub separately before using them together. I have the sub level dial at a notch below midpoint (10-11 o'clock). I have the level on the Onkyo at about -2 to -3 ... which is 2-3 decibles hot.

I certainly want to keep the PB12+ alive and well ... though it's hard to want to dial it down much when it only seems to bottom out at one small moment in a few select films. Funny, though, that the PB12+ gives in before the MFW15. I know it's not the Ultra, but I would have imagined the + and MFW being pretty comparable. Ah well, no one said doing the right thing would be easy.

Couple of quick things to double check:

1) What tuning are you selecting via the amp and does that match up to the number of ports (if any) that you are plugging?

2) Any phase errors? I know that Audyssey aficionados through a fit if you adjust the phase knob on the subs, but as you are dealing with two subs off of a single connection, they may be fighting each other.

paulmcj

10-20-09, 08:18 PM

Thanks for the additional replies and help, much appreciated. I'm pretty certain the sub is dialed in correctly to the # ports blocked (none for me right now), but always worth double checking. I currently have the phases of both subs matching at 0. I played with the phase of each sub a bit when I first added the MFW to the mix, and was happy with the matching 0 phases. I did run the PB12+ as the only sub in my setup from Aug last year until adding the MFW in January.

I spent a little time last night trying to balance things out a bit more. Dialed down the subs so they weren't running 2-3 dcb hot. Rolled back the level knob on the PB12+ just a bit. Through some testing and using the Hulk scene where the bottom-out occured (where those wave-motion guns mounted on the jeeps start firing on Hulk in the field), I found that I could operate just fine at -10dcb on the receiver instead of the -7 I was listening to - Or I was able to get myself in the clear by not running them 2-3 dcb hot from the receiver.

Still impressive output, no doubt. And just a couple decibles dialed down allows for clank-free bass.

deepstang

10-21-09, 08:26 AM

ishoong

10-22-09, 10:10 AM

Bob Whitefield

10-22-09, 10:58 AM

Noob here, got the PC-12NSD for a few days but didn't realize it was that huge before placing the order. Thinking of return it and get the box instead. How the compact side SB-12 plus compare to PB-12NSD? Perfer a small box but SQ still my biggest concern.

I was going to get an SB12-Plus, mainly for WAF reasons. But I got a good deal on a used 20-39Pci (slightly taller than PC12-NSD), and I'm glad I did.

Now my wife did remark "um, what's that big black thing that looks like a water heater?" But it tucks nicely into a corner, matches the height of my main speakers, uses little floor area, completely disappears (visually) when watching a movie, and makes a great conversation piece.

The SB12-Plus response drops off below 30Hz, while the PC12-NSD will go down to 20Hz. If sound quality is your primary concern, I would stick with the cylinder. If appearance is more important, you might be happier with the SB12, especially if you prefer one of the wood finishes.

ishoong

10-22-09, 12:02 PM

I was going to get an SB12-Plus, mainly for WAF reasons. But I got a good deal on a used 20-39Pci (slightly taller than PC12-NSD), and I'm glad I did.

Now my wife did remark "um, what's that big black thing that looks like a water heater?" But it tucks nicely into a corner, matches the height of my main speakers, uses little floor area, completely disappears (visually) when watching a movie, and makes a great conversation piece.

The SB12-Plus response drops off below 30Hz, while the PC12-NSD will go down to 20Hz. If sound quality is your primary concern, I would stick with the cylinder. If appearance is more important, you might be happier with the SB12, especially if you prefer one of the wood finishes.

Thx, I will keep the PC12-NSD or exhange for the PB12-NSD then. I dun mind the look of PC12 just it is too tall that block my toys display cabainet. LOL, my wife & kids also with the "water tank/garbage tank" comment on the PC12!:p But even my kids able to tell the difference after I switch the sub.:D

deepstang

10-22-09, 12:39 PM

paulmcj

10-22-09, 01:58 PM

Although I have last year's version of the PB12+, I have the MFW as well and will try to check out both individually tonight to give some thoughts on some performance. I would never claim to have a critical ear, so the best I could probably offer was one was a bit better over the other, or they are largely the same. I could pretty safely say right now, though, that the PB12+ hit its limits before the MFW based on running them together. I have a lot of respect for both subs - the MFW is just such a value : performance winner considering the sales (depending, of course, on your stomach for potential QC drama, many folks would understandably prefer to avoid any potential problems going with SVS over possibly getting 2 MFW for the price of the PB12+).

I spent a little time yesterday doing my best to rebalance the system overall (subs separately to set sub output levels, then subs together to balance with the speakers on receiver sub level). I've been using a Hulk fight scene as my reference material to compare against. I think I have a pretty large space compared to some, as I've got an open floor plan on the main level of our house that breaks down to be about 6750 cubic feet with open staircase.

When I was just running the PB12+ in my setup, it was definitely a strong performer and I generally had little to no complaints. Adding the MFW (though I can recognize and appreciate the general consensus of keeping dual subs the same - I just got real decent deals on both subs) is definitely a nice and notable improvement, just don't expect twice the output.

deepstang

10-23-09, 08:40 AM

I know SVS makes a TOP NOTCH product, but does anyone have any complaints with the build quality on their cylindrical SVS subs?? Anytime I see used ones for sale it seems that the sub carpet covering is wrinkling and coming loose. I know most issues are largely based on the owners care of the sub, but PC subs that are supposedly only 1 year old look 5 times older.

I hope that someone follows up and posts their thoughts on the PC12+

Also, has anyone upgraded from a standard NSD to a Plus....or a Plus to an Ultra?? Thoughts?

Bob Whitefield

10-23-09, 09:08 AM

Does anyone have any complaints with the build quality of any of their cylindrical SVS subs?? Anytime I see used ones for sale it seems that the sub carpet covering is wrinkling and comming loose. I know it is largely based on the owner, but PC subs that are supposedly only 1 year old look 5 times older.
I bought a used 20-39PCi a few weeks ago, and while cleaning it noticed the fabric was slightly loose at one spot. But it was nothing I couldn't smooth out with my hand, and after cleaning it looks brand new.

One thing I would like to know is how to remove the top grille? There's some dust under it I'd like to vacuum out. I had no luck pulling or turning it by hand.

Edit: nevermind, I found this post, removing the grille apparently takes some prying, not sure I'll bother:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9550679#post9550679

mustangjoe

10-27-09, 02:10 PM

d_m1010

10-27-09, 02:27 PM

Thinking about adding a second PB12. I really like the one, but I notice if I am sitting 3-4 seat positions away to the side of the sub the impact is just not the same.

Anybody with two (or more) PB12's with any comments?

I have two PB12 Pluses and they are amazing. I like to run them hot so the second really helped. The second PB smoothed the room modes like you're talking about. Not to mention the extra 4-6 dbs, the headroom, and the "effortless" bass they produce.

jlamb1051

11-05-09, 03:25 PM

I wanted to thank people on this forum for all the info on subs, particularly SVS. After a couple of months of reading and research, I went with a pc12-plus. My room is a 2700 cu ft dedicated HT with a three foot opening (doorway) on a sidewall open to the main house. it is approx 12 * 24 with a vaulted ceiling to 11 feet. I don't consider myself an audiophile, but i have decent equipment. I have infinity beta series speakers for speakers (2 x 50's, 1 x c360, 4 x es250). I use a denon 3808ci as my amp. Previously, I used an infinity csw-10 for a sub (the sub was $600 new). I thought my setup sounded geat. I have been reading about room shaking bass and feeling bass and started to think maybe my system lacked the bass i was reading about. I hooked up the pc12 last night at its native setting of 20 hz at 1/3 volume and ran a single pass of audyssey. I then watched the skidoosh scene in KFP and the crash scene on flight of the phoenix (both on BR). WOW. I realized how much powerful bass I was missing with the csw-10. Also, with the csw-10 i had a lot of nulls in the room probably because I was having to drive it so hard. With the plus I have not noticed any obvious nulls although there may be some subtle nulls when I test further. Also, it seems to pressurize the room i have like I have never experienced. I am very impressed with this sub so far, especially in light of the fact that it was only $300 more than what the infinity sub originally cost. All this is with no serious calibration, just basically out of the box on a single pass of Audyssey. Again, thanks for all your recommendations and if you have any suggestions about settings that I might try (like 16hz vs 20hz) or good movie for LFE with this sub, please feel free to comment.

deepstang

11-05-09, 05:26 PM

Jlamb1051, thanks for you feedback!! Funny thing, I have been trying to get more feedback from an AVS member that has the 2009 PC12-PLUS so I could have one final push to order my own. Today I finally broke down and ordered one at noon, and here you are with the exact feedback I was looking for.

Did you use the built-in parametric EQ at all?

jlamb1051

11-05-09, 08:15 PM

deepstang, i have not used the PEQ as I have audyssey multieq xt on my Denon amp. With the audyssey and not using the PEQ of the amp, I seem to have no room nulls, which is amazing to me, given the fact that my prior sub had major nulls and the pc12+ is in the same location. I am glad I went with the plus vs nsd. Given my room size, I think I would have been pushing the NSD pretty hard. The bass on this is awesome. My biggest decision right now is if I should go with the 16 hz (with a port plug in) that this allows or stay at 20 hz. Now that I know what true "deep" bass is, I am tempted to give 16 hz a shot. I think I made a very good decision and the footprint of this is perfect in the setup of my room. I hope you will be as happy as I am.

deepstang

11-13-09, 11:55 AM

Well, I got received my PC12-PLUS a couple of days ago. My initial thoughts are that I don't think I have my SVS optimized for my room properly. I honestly feel that it is maybe a 20% improvement over my older 10" Velodyne DLS-3750. I also feel like I hear a lot more room nulls b/c some scenes do not sound as smooth and full like with my Velo set-up. On the other hand, the PC12 plus can dig low and reproduce low stuff that the Velo could not even dream about.

Here is the link from the PC12-PLUS thread where I have a few updated pics and thoughts:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17519285#post17519285

Here is a thought for you theory guys. I know Bass and subs are supposed to be omni-directional, but I wonder if the Velo was much more efficient to my room because it was forward firing into the opposite wall compared to the PC12+ where the driver is snug to the wall (see pics in above link).

This is just my opinion and is probably due to user error or poor calibration, but I instantly noticed when I ran Audyssey with the PC12, that with the test tones it had this weird hollow sound compared to my boxed Velodyne. I also feel like I heard that TYPE of sound during mild bass scenes when I watched a chic flick with the wife.

FYI, here is an old pic of my Velo set-up. Again, new pics are on the above link.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_X1BRj82fjEo/Sho3EszKyMI/AAAAAAAACVQ/zYzia9gsaBw/s640/Den%20Audio%20Layout%20MAY%202009%20004.jpg

Robert_E

11-13-09, 01:47 PM

You could always screw off the baseplate on the SVS and let the driver fire in the same direction as the velo to test your theory. (Think someone on this forum has done that before)

counsil

11-13-09, 02:28 PM

What price should I expect to pay for a PB12-Ultra/2 in good/excellent condition? They are wanting $1100 which is too high. I just bought 2 PB13 Ultras for $1250 each, and they were only 2 months old (came with basically 3 years of warranty). From what I have read the PB13 pretty much bests a PB12-Ultra/2 in every way.

dewd

11-13-09, 02:44 PM

mustangjoe

11-29-09, 04:02 PM

Kind of quiet around here. What's up-too much turkey?:)

I tried calling SVS sales dept(black Friday) called 2 times even. Couldn't get through said too much phone volume. Business must be good?

aboulfad

12-05-09, 09:36 AM

I was going to get an SB12-Plus, mainly for WAF reasons. But I got a good deal on a used 20-39Pci (slightly taller than PC12-NSD), and I'm glad I did.

Now my wife did remark "um, what's that big black thing that looks like a water heater?" But it tucks nicely into a corner, matches the height of my main speakers, uses little floor area, completely disappears (visually) when watching a movie, and makes a great conversation piece.

The SB12-Plus response drops off below 30Hz, while the PC12-NSD will go down to 20Hz. If sound quality is your primary concern, I would stick with the cylinder. If appearance is more important, you might be happier with the SB12, especially if you prefer one of the wood finishes.

Initially, i was worried about the SB12+ response dropping below 30Hz, but let me tell you after 1/2 year of using it, it amazes me how good it delivers. Yesterday, i watched Terminator Salvation on blu-ray. This little sub kicked major ass. My brother saw with it me and he said the sound effects and the bass was way better than in the theatre !

I dont think people need to worry about this minor shortcoming, this sub is just simply amazing for the size, enclosure and looks ! IMHO.

BTW, sound quality for stereo is even awesome. I have a pair of ProAc Studio 2 (22yrs old) and this sub does an excellent job matching them. Cheers !

rudyr

12-08-09, 11:36 AM

mojomike

12-08-09, 11:52 AM

I'm currently using a PB12-NSD and would like to add a 2nd sub. Would it be ok to add a PB13 Ultra in addition to the PB12-NSD? I know getting a 2nd PB13 Ultra would be ideal, but it currently isn't in the budget.

Yes, it certainly can be made to work out ok. When you set the levels, I'd let the Ultra do more of the work because if they each are set to the same output, the NSD will reach it's limits sooner.

rudyr

12-08-09, 12:05 PM

Thanks. That's what I was hoping to hear.

EndersShadow

12-18-09, 05:26 PM

I currently do not own a SVS sub but am hoping to purchase a PC or PB 12+ in the next few months. My hope is that someone in or around the central Indiana region might be willing perhaps to let me listen to theirs. I am hoping to make a trip to the factory in early may of next year (if things work out), but its a 5 1/2 hr trip and if I can save some time so much the better....

mustangjoe

12-18-09, 08:34 PM

Got my second PB12NSD about two weeks ago. Nice, a better, fuller bass, more even and symmetrical like. Passed the WAF even.

SlobbyBobby

12-20-09, 02:09 AM

d_m1010

12-20-09, 12:48 PM

Anyone have any opinion on the PB12-NSD and or the PC12-NSD subwoofers by SVS? There sonically the same unless someone can offer a reason why they are not? Does anyone know how well these will work with Definitive Technology studio Monitor 450's?

I have an NHT SW1 subwoofer powered by an NHT MA1 85 watt amp I bought back in 1992. Please tell me that anyone of these SVS subwoofers are better than the one I have. lol. My old sub just sounds mushy to me.

I own NHT and SVS. I have an entire HT complement of NHT speakers (ST4 mains, SC2 center, 2 SC1 rears, and 2 SB1 backs) with 2 SVS PB 12 Pluses. I also have an NHT Sub Onei 12" sub that I use for my 2 channel setup with YBA/Emotiva/Focal gear. I replaced 2 NHT SW1 8" subs and a Classic 10" NHT sub that was running with the 12" with the 2 Pluses, and oh my, what a quality bass difference. The NHT subs are good, but they can't play nearly as low as the SVS, and they cannot play as loud either. The SVS subs are also more flat/linear acoss the bandwidth. Also, your NHT driver is very old and will be loose and tired.

I say go with the SVS hands down.

TheFactor

12-20-09, 01:46 PM

phatfreeza

12-20-09, 10:21 PM

NismoZ

12-21-09, 10:31 AM

Hey guys I'm getting a pc13 ultra to go with my pb12+/2 ... not enough money to get a second ultra so this will have to do for now... I don't have any way to eq this setup so I guess my question is will I need one? Can I get away without it? If I do get one, what's the cheapest one I can get? No funds left after this pirchase haha

Thanks all

Can you sell your PB2+/2 and pick up another Ultra?

The cheapest way to EQ would be to get a Baringer 1124. That said, I'd rather get a root canal before I tried to EQ 2 subs with that. The best/easierst way to EQ 2 subs is to get an AS-EQ1, but your gonna pay for it. http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-subeq.cfm

mikes781

12-29-09, 03:13 PM

Finally decided to get a sub for Paradigm reference studio system after going from an old victorian twin to a single family home a few months ago. Couldn't bring myself to take down my neighbors house along with mine. So I've been digging around this forum for the past week looking at some options and after trading emails with the helpful folks at SVS, I decided to go with the PB12+. They had a B stock one with a little scratch on the back that saved me a little $$$. I should have it early next week and just need to prepare my wife for the size of it. ;) I'm real excited to see the difference adding a sub to my system makes. Glad to see this great resource here, in case I run into any issues setting it up.

deepstang

12-29-09, 05:16 PM

Cant do a comparison but I have owned a SVS PB12 NSD and it really is a great little sub and excellent performer .

There is nothing little about it :p

Des Flurane

12-29-09, 07:48 PM

ransac

12-29-09, 08:05 PM

I've a PB12+/2 as well and am thinking about doing the same.
Let us know how you get on with the combo.
Des.I would bet you can tune the +/2 to 20Hz (1 port blocked) and the Ultra to 20Hz (no ports blocked) and you'll be fine. Or you could go with 16Hz (2 ports blocked) on the +/2 and 15Hz (1 port blocked) on the Ultra. You can also use the PEQ on the Ultra to take out the FR below the +/2. If the PEQ goes that low. You're going to need to be able to measure to see if you got it right, or just trust your ears. Personally, I would try the Ultra alone first. Adding it to the +/2 will degrade the overall SQ as I know the +/2 doesn't have as clean a sound as the Ultra does.

phatfreeza

12-30-09, 12:06 AM

I would bet you can tune the +/2 to 20Hz (1 port blocked) and the Ultra to 20Hz (no ports blocked) and you'll be fine. Or you could go with 16Hz (2 ports blocked) on the +/2 and 15Hz (1 port blocked) on the Ultra. You can also use the PEQ on the Ultra to take out the FR below the +/2. If the PEQ goes that low. You're going to need to be able to measure to see if you got it right, or just trust your ears. Personally, I would try the Ultra alone first. Adding it to the +/2 will degrade the overall SQ as I know the +/2 doesn't have as clean a sound as the Ultra does.
oh i totally forgot about the peq on the ultra... will have to learn how to use it when it comes... UPS can't seem to deliver soon enough!

mikes781

01-02-10, 10:38 AM

My PB12+ was delivered late Thursday. I was expecting to be big, but a 19"x22"x25" sub looks a lot bigger in person. When I unboxed it and set it up in our family, I thought to myself that my wife was going to have a few comments on the scale of it. To my surprise she hasn't said a peep about it yet. That should probably have me more worried. ;)

It is put together very nicely and looks very good. I spent some time calibrating it yesterday and it sounds great. Haven't really put it to a good test yet, but hopefully sometime this weekend. I was definitely missing out by not having a sub. I still need to do some tweaking. At times the sound from it is directional. Not real bad, but it does call attention to its location at times. I'm guessing that is more a function of my receiver that has the LFE crossover set at 90.

JimP

01-02-10, 01:04 PM

mike,

Its possible for it to be localizable due to the 90 hz crossover but in some people's cases (specifically me), I can localize a sub when its set lower than that.

Brian27

01-02-10, 04:28 PM

I've a PB12+/2 as well and am thinking about doing the same.
Let us know how you get on with the combo.
Des.

Yea..me too. I recently moved and getting 2 pc ultras would suit my situation better so im thinking of selling my cherry pb12+2.

phatfreeza

01-04-10, 06:26 PM

Yea..me too. I recently moved and getting 2 pc ultras would suit my situation better so im thinking of selling my cherry pb12+2.
got my ultra today and i calibrated with a spl meter. the ultra sits in the front of the room next to the tv about 15 feet away. my pb12+/2 is nearfied about 2-3 feet away. i did some movie watching and the ultra doesn't slam as much as my +/2 ... is this an issue with near and far placement?

anyways, i was hoping for more punch after adding the ultra but i'm not too impressed yet... i have both subs set to 20hz tuning. i will have to do some more comparison tests to get a real feel for this new sub. i also need to figure out how to use REW so i can take advantage of the ultra's peq.

counsil

01-04-10, 06:40 PM

got my ultra today and i calibrated with a spl meter. the ultra sits in the front of the room next to the tv about 15 feet away. my pb12+/2 is nearfied about 2-3 feet away. i did some movie watching and the ultra doesn't slam as much as my +/2 ... is this an issue with near and far placement?

anyways, i was hoping for more punch after adding the ultra but i'm not too impressed yet... i have both subs set to 20hz tuning. i will have to do some more comparison tests to get a real feel for this new sub. i also need to figure out how to use REW so i can take advantage of the ultra's peq.

Your subs could be canceling each other out. Have tried using the phase knob? Maybe one of the subs has reversed polarity? Shoot SVS an email. They should be able to help you get things sorted out. You are right. You really need to get REW up and running so you can "see" what each sub is doing in your room, as well as, how they are reacting to each other.

The Ultra should be adding significant "slam".

Nearfield is almost always going to provide you with more tactical feel. Switch the two subs around... then I bet you will notice the Ultra more!

Venturai

01-04-10, 06:51 PM

got my ultra today and i calibrated with a spl meter. the ultra sits in the front of the room next to the tv about 15 feet away. my pb12+/2 is nearfied about 2-3 feet away. i did some movie watching and the ultra doesn't slam as much as my +/2 ... is this an issue with near and far placement?

When I first get my new sub, and move it into position (where I'm hoping I'll be able to leave it) I will be temporarily disconnecting my older one and running just the new one. The idea will be to get the new one doing well on it's own, then I'll reconnect my existing lesser sub, position it nearer the seating position, and then see how they both fare together.

If I were you, I'd work with just the Ultra to begin with, get it so that it's doing as great a job as it can in whatever spot it ends up being, and from there determine where to add the PB12/2 for best effect.

phatfreeza

01-04-10, 06:54 PM

Your subs could be canceling each other out. Have tried using the phase knob? Maybe one of the subs has reversed polarity? Shoot SVS an email. They should be able to help you get things sorted out. You are right. You really need to get REW up and running so you can "see" what each sub is doing in your room, as well as, how they are reacting to each other.

The Ultra should be adding significant "slam".

Nearfield is almost always going to provide you with more tactical feel. Switch the two subs around... then I bet you will notice the Ultra more!
thanks for the quick reply. how do i use the phase knob? one at a time? are there test tones for setting phase?

phatfreeza

01-04-10, 07:01 PM

some pictures of my pc13U and pb12+/2... pardon the mess haha

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/757550540_5qV9Q-L.jpg
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/757550573_2eB7G-L.jpg
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/757550651_Gb6Pr-L.jpg
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/757550504_JUVE3-L.jpg

cuzed2

01-05-10, 12:42 PM

So at the risk of sharing a new SVS product idea; the following is what I did during my Holiday break.

I made a 250 watt drink shaker, and in doing so > I solved my back row seating dilemna:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/IMG_8261.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/IMG_8262.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/IMG_8267.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/IMG_8272.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/IMG_8282.jpg

At reference LFE volumes - it mixes drinks, also allows seating, and bass effects !! If SVS finds a market for these - remember you saw it here first :D

jimwhit

01-05-10, 01:09 PM

Nice!

But don't you have to velcro the drinks to the top so they don't walk themselves off?:)

Bob Whitefield

01-05-10, 01:09 PM

So at the risk of sharing a new SVS product idea; the following is what I did during my Holiday break.

I made a 250 watt drink shaker, and in doing so > I solved my back row seating dilemna:

At reference LFE volumes - it mixes drinks, also allows seating, and bass effects !! If SVS finds a market for these - remember you saw it here first :D

Now that's thinking outside the cylinder! Very nice.

Just make sure your guests know the bass port isn't a trash can. ;)

cuzed2

01-05-10, 02:27 PM

Good Point Bob - Thanks!

And a "making sure" disclaimer:

First off > I really like my SVS subs !!
This project and post was not intended in any way to diminish the fine reputation and fine product that SVS produces. This was purely a DIY project challenge on my part.

cuzed2

01-05-10, 02:29 PM

jimwhit

Actually - that was a concern.

But after replacing the original wooden base with my 30+lb. steel base plate - the shaking at table top level is minimal.

ransac

01-05-10, 04:00 PM

jimwhit

Actually - that was a concern.

But after replacing the original wooden base with my 30+lb. steel base plate - the shaking at table top level is minimal.It's about time I see someone use a little creativity to make a tube look nicer. I've been telling people for years that wanted a cylinder, but didn't like the black water heater look, that they could dress it up. You could go as far as SVS did with the short-lived SS models. If you know how to sew, you could even replace the sock with some cloth that went better with your decor or even put a veneer wrap on it.

Nice job.

cuzed2

01-05-10, 04:56 PM

Thanks Randy,

It was relatively simple, a fun challenge, and satisfied a need within my HT layout.

aboroth00

01-08-10, 03:40 PM

I currently have a SVS 29-39+ which was shipped in 2003. I believe it has the 12.1 driver from TC sounds. I'm wondering whether to upgrade it to the 12.3 driver, however it will cost me a considerable amount 330 inc shipping. Could i get some other perspectives on this.

peteran

01-09-10, 05:45 AM

Elitegti17

01-10-10, 05:47 PM

TheFactor

01-10-10, 06:19 PM

Hey guys Im just about to pull the trigger on a rosenut sb 12 plus but just wanted to hear some input from any owners or those who have heard the sub. I know the nsd's will get lower but i cant accommodate their size unfortunately. I have looked at subs by rel, hsu and ed but for a very small room I feel this is the best option and reviews have been great. What do you guys think?

Thats a hard choice because I had a pb12nsd and it was pretty impressive. But I havent heard a sb12 plus but they sure are purrty lol . I say save up for a Ultra PB13 and theres no need to look back :D

TheFactor

01-10-10, 06:24 PM

mojomike

01-10-10, 06:27 PM

Hey guys Im just about to pull the trigger on a rosenut sb 12 plus but just wanted to hear some input from any owners or those who have heard the sub. I know the nsd's will get lower but i cant accommodate their size unfortunately. I have looked at subs by rel, hsu and ed but for a very small room I feel this is the best option and reviews have been great. What do you guys think?

The SB12 is a very good small sub. It can't dig as deep as it's larger brothers, but does a great job for it's size. It is excellent for music. I have a pair of them that I operate in stereo.

TheFactor

01-10-10, 06:32 PM

The SB12 is a very good small sub. It can't dig as deep as it's larger brothers, but does a great job for it's size. It is excellent for music. I have a pair of them that I operate in stereo.

I think there sealed to so should be some nice tight accurate bass .

Elitegti17

01-10-10, 09:10 PM

Thanks guys its mainly for movies but based on all the reviews it should do just as good. Now the wait until February begins :D

maxht

01-11-10, 04:54 AM

I was watching District 9 BD on last weekend. The MJ's This Is It movie preview has stupendous LFE that shook my HT room even at -18dB. My PB-Ultra pressurized the whole room when 'Jam' song was played in the preview.

Kimeran

01-11-10, 05:41 AM

Ok, I have been planning on getting a PC12-NSD for a while now and now that I have the funds I am actually thinking about the PC Plus might be a smarter choice because It will be longer before I can think of an upgrade to my system and just worry about other aspects. What do you guys think? is the Plus worth the extra money over the NSD?

EndersShadow

01-11-10, 07:57 AM

robbroy

01-11-10, 12:41 PM

mojomike

01-11-10, 12:52 PM

Good info. Thanks!

spyboy

01-11-10, 01:01 PM

Hello,

I took a few photos from the SV Sound meeting room at CES this year.

You can find photos here: http://picasaweb.google.com/robbroy/CES2010#

Some of the highlights include new sealed subs, in-wall speakers and subwoofers, and new amps.

Enjoy!

-Robb

Am I the only one who noticed that the SB-(13) Plus no longer has real wood veneer on all four sides? This is in keeping with the PB-12 Plus that only has real wood veneer on the sides. I don't like this kind of de-contenting, especially at the price points involved.

robbroy

01-11-10, 01:07 PM

Am I the only one who noticed that the SB-(13) Plus no longer has real wood veneer on all four sides? This is in keeping with the PB-12 Plus that only has real wood veneer on the sides. I don't like this kind of de-contenting, especially at the price points involved.

spyboy,

You are mistaken. The Plus always had a veneer like the one you see. You are thinking of the Ultra, not the Plus.

-Robb

spyboy

01-11-10, 01:38 PM

spyboy,

You are mistaken. The Plus always had a veneer like the one you see. You are thinking of the Ultra, not the Plus.

-Robb

Then why is it that the pictures of the SB-12 Plus on the SVS website
shows real wood veneer on the top and bottom (and not only on the sides) of the cabinet?

ransac

01-11-10, 02:02 PM

Then why is it that the pictures of the SB-12 Plus on the SVS website
shows real wood veneer on the top and bottom (and not only on the sides) of the cabinet?And Rob knows this. Prior to this version of the Plus line, the veneered models were full veneer like the Ultra. It was after the MTS speakers came out and then the Plus went to the 12.4 driver that they changed the skin. They never changed the skin on the SB-12 though. I kind of like the look, but it isn't anywhere near as costly to do as a full veneer. This model allows for larger production runs of the poly box and of the panels. They just have to mate them in final assembly. Since plain poly is no longer an option, I would like to see them go to a satin or gloss black base finish. The poly detracts from the side panels in my opinion.

robbroy

01-11-10, 02:14 PM

TheFactor

01-11-10, 02:37 PM

Great pics thanks for sharing.

spyboy

01-11-10, 04:24 PM

Randy,

Thanks for the clarification. In truth, I'd forgotten about the original sealed "Plus" model.

The SB 12 and the SB 13 are two entirely different animals. So much so, in fact, that to use the term "de-contenting" doesn't fit - bigger driver, bigger amp (with DSP), and bigger cabinet. Where the 12 was good for music and light duty home theater (in a small room) the 13 is outstanding for both (in much larger spaces). It is not an upgraded version; it is an entirely new product.

-Robb

As someone who has done consulting work for SVS in the past, your defense of the de-contenting of the SB-13 comes as no surprise.

While other ID companies are working hard to introduce real wood veneers on their subwoofers, SVS is going backward.

Thanks for telling us that the SB-13 isn't going to have a 13 inch driver in the same box, with the same amp as the SB-12 Plus. That would have been a REAL disappointment :rolleyes:

TheFactor

01-11-10, 06:51 PM

At least SVS has offered veneer finishes long before others that are still trying to . I wouldnt consider it going backwards imo I think its a nice contrast combining the two finishes .

Kimeran

01-11-10, 08:34 PM

As someone told me once, "You can always turn it down, you cant always turn it up more."

I understand that but what about accuracey and how low of a frequency they can reach...

robbroy

01-11-10, 09:16 PM

As someone who has done consulting work for SVS in the past, your defense of the de-contenting of the SB-13 comes as no surprise.

While other ID companies are working hard to introduce real wood veneers on their subwoofers, SVS is going backward.

Thanks for telling us that the SB-13 isn't going to have a 13 inch driver in the same box, with the same amp as the SB-12 Plus. That would have been a REAL disappointment :rolleyes:

Yes, I have done some consulting for them (still do - what do you think I was doing in their meeting room at CES?) and I have never tried to hide that fact. I'm an enthusiast first, though, and my financial future is in no way tied to that of SV Sound's.

In addition to not hiding anything, I also try to treat others with respect, and acknowledge when I'm wrong (as I did in my reply to Randy). I'll let our respective posts in this thread speak for themselves.

-Robb

Something_Soft

01-11-10, 10:22 PM

Hey, what's the news on the LTS line?

Did they display it at CES?

What's going on!? I'm burning through my money, and I'm not sure if I'll have enough left!

craigsub

01-11-10, 10:36 PM

Robb - Thanks for the pictures. It looks like SVS has some very cool products looming on the horizon.

The SB-13 Plus is a great looking subwoofer, and should bring another winner to the sealed subwoofer world.

As for your defending SVS because you have done some consulting, few people have been more reasonable than have you for years.

robbroy

01-11-10, 10:58 PM

linux426

01-11-10, 11:53 PM

ransac

01-12-10, 12:23 AM

Randy,

Thanks for the clarification. In truth, I'd forgotten about the original sealed "Plus" model.

-Robb
I figured it was just a senior moment thing. You should also remember the Plus line used to be fully veneered prior to the current side panel finish.

ransac

01-12-10, 12:35 AM

Hello,

I took a few photos from the SV Sound meeting room at CES this year.

You can find photos here: http://picasaweb.google.com/robbroy/CES2010#

Some of the highlights include new sealed subs, in-wall speakers and subwoofers, and new amps.

Enjoy!

-RobbWhat is the device behind the 7x150 ICE amp. Looks like it is shown assembled in front of the SBS/STS speakers? Is that the AS-EQ1?

I like your new look in the WTF photo.:)

robbroy

01-12-10, 12:51 AM

I figured it was just a senior moment thing. You should also remember the Plus line used to be fully veneered prior to the current side panel finish.

Randy,

You hit on a problem I see with their naming. When you really look at their products, a lot of them haven't been upgrades, but entirely new products. I see the "NSD", "Plus", and "Ultra" labels as "SVS speak" for "good", "better", and "best" within their lineup. I actually own one of the old Plus models, and the only thing it shares with the current offerings is the word "Plus" in the name. Call it a combination of "senior moment" and the fact I'm familiar enough with the products to know they are entirely different from previous products, and not just upgrades. At the very least I'd like to see them use versions in the names, not just the same name. Currently it leads people to believe they're just upgrades (and sometimes they are) while sometimes they are completely different beasts sharing a name and parent company. I know part of the reason for this is SVS doesn't want to be one of those companies that makes an upgrade, and sells it to their customers as a whole new product. As commendable as that is, it makes it difficult for folks to recognize when it is a whole new product.

-Robb

Something_Soft

01-12-10, 12:53 AM

Something_Soft,

I saw no news on the LTS line. I think (emphasis on *think* - I have no insider info here) that there are two reasons for the LTS delay. One is that the MTS, once they nailed some initial production issues, is so good it already is what they may have envisioned the LTS to be when they set out to design the MTS. Two is that they know the LTS is a flagship product and they will want to take the time to make that something special. Three (I was wrong again when I said "two reasons") may be market related. Given the economy, sales projections for such a product might not make the expense and effort worth it at this time when those resources can be used toward products that actually keep the lights on. Everyone wants to see the latest exotic car, but how many people actually buy one? The same kind of thinking may be why we'll see the new sealed 12 before the new sealed 13 before the new sealed 16.

Craig,

Thanks for the props. I spend such little time on the forums these days that it is an honor you even remember me! I'm no unbiased third party reviewer (in fact, a long time ago, I was offered a subwoofer reviewer position at another forum and turned it down because of my consulting work) but I'm also no liar.

-Robb

That's true, but their is a niche for high end sound that people with money still want. I'm hoping they include the new scan-speak illuminator series. $6,500 for a 5.0 is very little for something so substantial that could literally cost $250,000 for 5.0 somewhere else. While I admit there would be a difference between the two, those kind of quality drivers aren't used in anything but ridicules high end speakers. I'm holding out for the 3 way towers and 3 way center channel. The Infinity Primus was a great first system, but I got a feeling this is the best possible upgrade. I'd use them for over 10 years, so waiting a little more isn't going to hurt.

When I upgrade, LTS line with Emotiva XPA-5 with 300 watts rms @ 4 ohms, assuming it will be 4 ohms. I hate waiting. The money is burning a hole in my pocket. I'm on fire! I can wait though. I just keep telling myself that. I can wait.

robbroy

01-12-10, 12:59 AM

What is the device behind the 7x150 ICE amp. Looks like it is shown assembled in front of the SBS/STS speakers? Is that the AS-EQ1?

I like your new look in the WTF photo.:)

I don't remember what that was, and my picture isn't clear enough to be certain. They had several amps there for powering in-wall subs and speakers, too. Perhaps Ed will chime in with what that is, but my best guess is that it is one of their two channel amps.

P.S. I'm bummed I didn't get a good photo of their new surround speaker (the only one I have is so fuzzy it might as well be a muppet).

-Robb

Ron Temple

01-12-10, 03:19 AM

I wasn't going to post this...another homage to SVS customer commitment...but, what the heck, they deserve it.

On 12/29 I upgraded my Oppo BD83 to the SE. For those that don't know, it's an analog sound board upgrade for the stellar universal blu-ray player. They're right down the street, so I go my unit back very quickly. Anyway, I plugged the unit back in the rig, calibrated digitially and w/analog and found I had to apply huge boosts at the player, pre and on the sub to matchup with the mains. Wasn't happy and called Oppo immediately. The LFE boost over analog is an issue and usually requires a 10-15db boost somewhere within the chain to work correctly. I had only needed 10dbs before the upgrade and now needed 19 (and it still wasn't right). They were stumped did some tests and suggested I play with it awhile and get back next week. Fine, I knew they'd take care of me.

Next day, I re-cal'd again, saw some variances for the better from the previous day and started auditioning the player. Each source needed adjustment, but I finally thought I had it nutted. Shut down and went to dinner with my wife. Came back and put in a DVD, no LFE, a BR, no LFE, HDTV (not connected to the player), no LFE. WTF...(it was there, but very, very low)

On New Year's Eve, I sent an email to SVS support...suggesting that my 2.5 year old PB13 amp might be failing...no hurry...get back to me after CES (I did say Happy New Year). On 1/2 I got an email from both Ed and Jack. Ed told me that, yes, he was going to CES...that the Oppo had obviously broken my amp and wasn't covered...obviously user-abuse:eek:...then raised the price on replacement amps :p:eek:;)...then winked and said they'd send me an RMA# on Monday (no, I wasn't charged, still under warranty). Jack took over and completed the transaction that day and I received shipment notice on the 5th. Got the new amp today and after some colorful cursing about the "no slack" wire connection to the amp (had to splice wire...luckily it was supplied, but not discussed in the instructions), I did the swapout in about a half hour. Bonanza, I'm back in business with a quick calibration though I'm going to have to do some detailed dicking with it to sound as good as before.
Looks like the caps on the old amp might have been leaking.

There's been lot's of kudos for SVS over the years, but you just cant beat that. Every excuse and my permission to put me on the back burner until things settle down after the holidays and they still overachieve.

You've made my new year happy SVS.

TheFactor

01-12-10, 08:43 AM

Snowmanick

01-12-10, 10:41 AM

... Since plain poly is no longer an option, I would like to see them go to a satin or gloss black base finish. The poly detracts from the side panels in my opinion.

Gloss black with the wood sides (a la Usher) would be a fantastic finish option, the best of both worlds. I wonder what the cost difference for the end consumer would be though?

Nemo

01-20-10, 11:19 PM

Especially for current PC12-Plus owners:

Sorry if this is trivial but I just ordered two PC12-Plus and I'm still trying to figure out which BASH amp model they will be equipped with.

When I look at this SVS web page for the PC12-Plus (http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pc12_plus.cfm) it is shown equipped with 3 different BASH amps:

1) The first one has no PEQ and no XLR:
http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/pcplus-power-16-46/amp-lg.jpg

2) The middle one has PEQ and no XLR:

http://www.svsound.com/products/amps/new_pb12plus_amp_thumbnail.jpg

3) The bottom one has both PEQ and XLR (like the Ultra):

http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/pcultra13/pcultra_flush%20amp_detail_sm.jpg

Confused? Join the club... So which amp should I expect with my subs?
Thanks!
Nemo

Kimeran

01-21-10, 01:02 AM

Hey guys. Just got my PC12 NSD this week and have been toying with it alot to try and get it setup right. I followed their directions on how to set it up and then did the calibration through my Yamaha 863. It sounds great but it doesnt have that heavy impact that I thought it would. I even had to turn up the volume in my receiver going to the sub to get the proper output I was looking for. Now my room is bigger because it is an open floorplan...

Unfortunately I cannot return it and get a PC12+ as I cannot afford it.

I love the way it sounds it just doesnt have that hit that I thought it would.

Is there any way that I can get more out of it?

TheFactor

01-21-10, 08:56 AM

d_m1010

01-21-10, 09:53 AM

d_m1010

01-21-10, 10:25 AM

Hey guys, this off the SVS topic, but if you really want to add an incredible visceral slam to your system I totally recommend the Buttkicker LFE. I just added to my HT and wow is it incredible! It complements the SVS subs beautifully.:)

Bob Whitefield

01-21-10, 10:38 AM

Adamg (Ret-Navy)

01-21-10, 10:39 AM

Kimeran,

I had one and moving it to a corner (corner loading) made a major difference. Like TheFactor already said, moving it around can really make a world of difference in how the sub performs. Also your seating position may be close to or in a null zone (see Standing Waves thread). Try walking around the room while playing a test tone from the sub and see if you can sense the difference in SPL levels as you move closer and farther away. Try to make sure your Sub versus your seating positions do not place you right in the null zone. In my case all I had to do was move the Sub to a corner and move my Seating up one foot to make a major difference.

Good luck.

Hey guys. Just got my PC12 NSD this week and have been toying with it alot to try and get it setup right. I followed their directions on how to set it up and then did the calibration through my Yamaha 863. It sounds great but it doesnt have that heavy impact that I thought it would. I even had to turn up the volume in my receiver going to the sub to get the proper output I was looking for. Now my room is bigger because it is an open floorplan...

Unfortunately I cannot return it and get a PC12+ as I cannot afford it.

I love the way it sounds it just doesnt have that hit that I thought it would.

Is there any way that I can get more out of it?