Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. [Text View] - Page 19

smurraybhm

03-11-10, 11:00 PM

jac86

03-12-10, 05:15 AM

Do you have this sub L/R+LFE enabled? I would make sure this is off. Set it to LFE. Also if you x-over the main speakers to 100hz, as pepar hit on, there should be nothing higher then 100hz going to the sub channel.

And that is one nice looking receiver.:)

I have it set to LFE (only). I am currently switching the crossover of the main speakers between 60 Hz & 80 Hz to see if there's any difference. I think the AVR's LFE crossover may not have a steep enough roll off, so I'm getting a lower-level (lower in volume than the speakers) signal through the sub. I'd estimate that it is still playing frequencies up to about 100-200 Hz. I think increasing the crossover point would further the problem.

I'm going to try the suggestion above and set it temporarily to 40 Hz, even though this is perhaps not ideal for my long term setup. Still troubleshooting. Just with television too, weird.

dewd

03-12-10, 11:23 AM

Khakimon

03-12-10, 02:54 PM

Calibrate by ear = PREFERENCE
Calibrate using MultEQ = REFERENCE

If you want to hear the soundtrack as the sound mixer did when the movie was made, you strive for REFERENCE. If you want to tweak the sound to your liking, then strive for PREFERENCE. There is nothing wrong with having a preference. The problem I have is when you blast a technology just because it does not do what YOU want it to do (preference).

I still have not seen evidence of Audyssey causing a sub to bottom out. Seriously, if this was the case, why would SVS be shipping their Audyssey powered EQ?

BTW - Congrats to the new SVS owners. You are in for a treat. :D

Still kicking the dead horse. I believe that people have had issues with Audyssey. Whether is is the software's fault or their own is a mute point, really. I stated only what I have read right here on this forum. After reading more, and the wonderful and enlightening exchange pepar and myself had, I have decided Audyseey, like all things is PREFERENCE, not REFERENCE. I am sure in the right arena, ie, your home, it might work wonders. Other places it might not be so, as to justify it's use. It is a tool, and not the only or best tool for setting up a successful HT. Period.
The person stated it bottomed out with Audyssey on. So it was suggested not to use it. He then stated it stopped with Audyssey disabled.In this case the version of Audyssey they were using was not for them. Like another person mentioned some older AVRs have had some issues such as that.
My personal experience was the opposite, as I have stated. I feel it takes the sub's level down to far for a proper blending. Again this was my experience.
And one more thing before the horse is eaten by the vultures, I never blasted the tech. I claimed a specific issue with the tech. You too seem very emotionally attached to your purchases. I am happy you like Audyssey so much. It has some nice features. The x-over points seem to be deadon, as are the distances. But then my old 0nkyo 602 could do this as well. No Audyssey there....:p Most hegative things I have read about this tech has to do with speaker trim levels. Otherwise it seems to get great reviews. So when another person "blasts" Audyssey you can good read the raving review to alittle solace.

Just so you know, if you really want reference then you have all the wrong equipment, and will probably have to build a new room from the ground up, to reference specs. Alot about room modes and construction tips can be found on Google.:)

Reference bass stops at 15hz or does it go lower?? Anybody know where the lowest reference hz fall?

pepar

03-12-10, 03:09 PM

Reference bass stops at 15hz or does it go lower?? Anybody know where the lowest reference hz fall?
There is a thread devoted to movies with sub-20Hz content.

Khakimon

03-12-10, 03:17 PM

There is a thread devoted to movies with sub-20Hz content.

I am asking about the lowest frequency "allowed" in reference material.
Is there a standard?
My PB13 seems to get it all, but maybe not....

pepar

03-12-10, 03:22 PM

I am asking about the lowest frequency "allowed" in reference material.
Is there a standard?
My PB13 seems to get it all, but maybe not....
I don't know of any standard, but that doesn't mean that there isn't one. I do know some people who measure content/output to the 8Hz - 12Hz range.

Khakimon

03-13-10, 04:09 PM

Just took delivery of the baby SVS - PB10. This is one fine sub, I wish I could have gone bigger but the space and more importantly the WF limited that. Upstairs area where I am focused raising the quality of music and movies to match the HT downstairs. How many 10" subs weigh over 60 lbs? I look forward to going to work this weekend with my computer, sound meter and getting the LFE and other things tweaked just right. Thanks to all the posters on this thread - tough to pass an SVS up after so many positive comments. The buying experience was top notch and they know who to pack a sub safely for its long journey to its new home. Cheers!

Congradulations! Now you get the real stuff.
They say that little beast will go down to 20hz easy.
It is a steal when compared to any other 10" out there. Good choice!
The folks at SVS are a top notch of bunch people. Class act there. They will be there for you long after the sale. Now go have some fun.:D

danyem04

03-14-10, 02:04 PM

TheFactor

03-14-10, 02:24 PM

danyem04

03-14-10, 02:33 PM

Your answer In two words" buy it" !! How much do want to spend and how big is your HT area ?

I am looking at the PB-12 plus for $1149. My living room is 20' X 24'.

Am I on the right track? Thanks for the input!

d_m1010

03-14-10, 02:35 PM

I am looking at the PB-12 plus for $1149. My living room is 20' X 24'.

Am I on the right track? Thanks for the input!

I own two of them and they are incredible subs.

TheFactor

03-14-10, 03:01 PM

I am looking at the PB-12 plus for $1149. My living room is 20' X 24'.

Am I on the right track? Thanks for the input!

Yes great choice I have a pb13 ultra and a pb12 plus and they both are excellent performers and you should be very happy :) Heres my plus and ultra to give you something to hold you over ;) Ultra on the left and my plus on the right http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01444.jpg

TheFactor

03-14-10, 03:03 PM

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01380.jpg http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01379.jpg http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01353.jpg http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01381.jpg

Khakimon

03-14-10, 03:08 PM

All,

Im new to this forum and the speaker/subwoofer world. Never had much experience or knowledge that so much was out there! I came across an SVS subwoofer at my Friends house, WOW!!! DOnt know the model but it had a sound and feel like nothing Ive ever came across. I want one!!

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but Im looking for info on SVS. Are you guys happy with them?

What is their strength? Weakness? Should I purchase an SVS or look elsewhere? If so, where ales should I look?

Thanks for any input, remember Im a rookie!!

Welcome.
You are on the right track. SVS makes an incredible product. They are not the only choice, but they are the best, for the dollar spent. Period. ( aside from some DIY stuff)

The Plus is a good all around sub. Targeted right at the HT audience.
What will be your main use for the sub? Music, movies, tv?

The box subs all dig alittle deeper, but require more linear floor space. These are best if you have the room. I know alot of people like the PLUS, but dual PB12-NSD are the way I almost went. These bad boys will go down to 10hz. Thus making the 18hz and lower much more substantial. They have an extremely flat response right out of the box. You get over 90db performance from 100hz down to 17hz or so with 10 hz popping in at 58hz or so. These numbers will be better in your room. Dual PB12-NSD will knock the snot out of a single PLUS.:D
I speak from experience. My prior sub was a PB12/PLUS which performed very close to the PLUS of today, but with alittle more kick in the butt. After 20 hz it rolls off fast. Too fast for the serious bass. You lose most of the really low
17hz and under stuff, and never get down even close to 10hz.;)

That is what I love about my PB13-ULTRA. If you can swing it go for the PB13-ULTRA. It is one wicked sub.
It does it all very well music, movies and even the late night infomercials sound great.;)
Any way you go you will be impressed:)

Khakimon

03-14-10, 03:13 PM

Yes great choice I have a pb13 ultra and a pb12 plus and they both are excellent performers and you should be very happy :) Heres my plus and ultra to give you something to hold you over ;) Ultra on the left and my plus on the right http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/TheFactor_photos/DSC01444.jpg

Are those pallets you have your subs on?:D Just kidding.
Are those made for hard flloors as well as carpeted floors?

jac86

03-14-10, 03:35 PM

All,

Im new to this forum and the speaker/subwoofer world. Never had much experience or knowledge that so much was out there! I came across an SVS subwoofer at my firends house, WOW!!! DOnt know the model but it had a sound and feel like nothing Ive ever came across. I want one!!

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but Im looking for info on SVS. Are you guys happy with them?

What is their strength? Weakness? Should I purchase an SVS or look elsehwere? If so, where ales should I look?

Thanks for any input, remember Im a rookie!!

IMO, all of the SVS subwoofers are well-made and have good bass output.

The one thing that caught my eye is your room size. That's fairly large and you would probably be best off with one ultra, or 2 plusses...or 2 ultras;)

I have one PC12-plus in a room that's about 21'x14' and I could use a little more bass. I say this hesitantly because I'm sure the people in the house next door think I've got plenty of bass.

Khakimon

03-14-10, 03:50 PM

I'm sure the people in the house next door think I've got plenty of bass.

Bass is not politically correct. It is over bearing, intrusive and unneccassry....

pepar

03-14-10, 04:04 PM

Bass is not politically correct. It is over bearing, intrusive and unneccassry....
Only the other person's bass. :)

Khakimon

03-14-10, 04:07 PM

Only the other person's bass. :)

Now you get +1...:)

jac86

03-14-10, 05:13 PM

Bass is not politically correct. It is over bearing, intrusive and unneccassry....

Actually it is overbearing, intrusive, and TOTALLY necessary.;)

pepar

03-14-10, 05:15 PM

Actually it is overbearing, intrusive, and TOTALLY necessary.;)
I think I have driven next to you in traffic. :D

jac86

03-14-10, 05:19 PM

danyem04

03-14-10, 05:24 PM

WOW! Thanks everyone for all the great info and very impressive photos. I def need to get into the game!

I'll for sure keep this website and forum in my favorites!!

jac86

03-14-10, 05:24 PM

I think I have driven next to you in traffic. :D

Haha. But isn't anybody with an SVS subwoofer that guy in traffic.

TheFactor

03-14-10, 06:18 PM

@ TheFactor

What brand of stand do you have your receiver, DVD player, etc. on?
I'm looking for a (relatively cheap) solution and your's looks really nice, but not super-expensive. I need it to hold about 130-150 lbs. Does your's do that?

Cant remember but I bought it from Amazon/one of there vendors . I think it should hold that much its pretty sturdy and built well. Im guessing but i've probably have a 100 or so pounds on it and keep in mind on most quality display stands and audio racks they'll under rate what they can hold for liability reasons. Whats cool about this stand to is it had a option for Castor wheels so I got those and its great for having to get behind it just roll it out and also you can add more shelves on it to .As far as price its been a few years but I think it was a little over 200 and thats pretty reasonable considering its built like a tank very solid .

pepar

03-14-10, 06:21 PM

Haha. But isn't anybody with an SVS subwoofer that guy in traffic.
Not if they also have an AS-EQ1. ;)

TheFactor

03-14-10, 06:26 PM

WOW! Thanks everyone for all the great info and very impressive photos. I def need to get into the game!

I'll for sure keep this website and forum in my favorites!!
YW and keep us posted !:)
Are those pallets you have your subs on?:D Just kidding.
Are those made for hard flloors as well as carpeted floors?

Yes I made them out of foam and some cardboard I had laying around along with some crazy glue :eek: :p There callled great gramma pads made by Auralex but im sure you knew that :p :) Yes they say you can prosper on carpet floors or hard floors especialy if your carpet is on wood instead of a concrete slab . They work great, look cool and I love them .

Nickff

03-14-10, 06:31 PM

I do not want to start anything by asking, but...

If I opt to put one of the foam plugs in my PB12-Plus and change the mode on the back, do I need to rerun Audyssey?

mojomike

03-14-10, 06:34 PM

You should rerun Audyssey. Changing the tuning mode will affect both the frequency response and the output level.

TheFactor

03-14-10, 06:45 PM

You should rerun Audyssey. Changing the tuning mode will affect both the frequency response and the output level.

x2

maxht

03-15-10, 04:57 AM

Wow.... you have a nice setup there, TheFactor.

Here's mine :

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9968/img4846v.jpg

Only using a PB13-Ultra as I sold off the PC12-Plus. I am using the AS-EQ1 to do the room correction. Denon AVR-4310 handles the rest with its Audyssey MultEQ XT. Power for the 5 channels is from Emo XPA-5 (Hidden under MCS-01 center channel).

TheFactor

03-15-10, 07:47 AM

Thankyou Maxht :) My setup is very simple but effective . I really love your setup to, that must sweet watching movies with that big of a screen. Some day I would love to get a PJ setup .Also next on my short list will be room acoustics .

Big Worms

03-15-10, 07:59 AM

Wow.... you have a nice setup there, TheFactor.

Here's mine :

Only using a PB13-Ultra as I sold off the PC12-Plus. I am using the AS-EQ1 to do the room correction. Denon AVR-4310 handles the rest with its Audyssey MultEQ XT. Power for the 5 channels is from Emo XPA-5 (Hidden under MCS-01 center channel).

Very nice!

maxht

03-15-10, 10:17 AM

Thanks a lot, TheFactor & Big Worms:)

Next upgrade would be the screen. The Draper screen is forming a 'V' shape. Will get a fixed screen in near future.

Just bought a pair of speaker mount. Thinking of trying out Audyssey Height for my setup.

SharpOne

03-15-10, 12:16 PM

Welcome.
You are on the right track. SVS makes an incredible product. They are not the only choice, but they are the best, for the dollar spent. Period. ( aside from some DIY stuff)

The Plus is a good all around sub. Targeted right at the HT audience.
What will be your main use for the sub? Music, movies, tv?

The box subs all dig alittle deeper, but require more linear floor space. These are best if you have the room. I know alot of people like the PLUS, but dual PB12-NSD are the way I almost went. These bad boys will go down to 10hz. Thus making the 18hz and lower much more substantial. They have an extremely flat response right out of the box. You get over 90db performance from 100hz down to 17hz or so with 10 hz popping in at 58hz or so. These numbers will be better in your room. Dual PB12-NSD will knock the snot out of a single PLUS.:D
I speak from experience. My prior sub was a PB12/PLUS which performed very close to the PLUS of today, but with alittle more kick in the butt. After 20 hz it rolls off fast. Too fast for the serious bass. You lose most of the really low
17hz and under stuff, and never get down even close to 10hz.;)

That is what I love about my PB13-ULTRA. If you can swing it go for the PB13-ULTRA. It is one wicked sub.
It does it all very well music, movies and even the late night infomercials sound great.;)
Any way you go you will be impressed:)

Are you sure your old PB12 Plus performs similarly to the new one? From the FR graphs on SVS, it looks like in the 16 Hz configuration, the sub should still hit about 80db at 15 Hz, and that's without any room gain.

I'm in debate over trying to get dual PB12 pluses by the wife or just go with a single Ultra. I need to make a decision within the next few weeks so I can get it delivered during my planned vacation.

Any comments in general about dual 12 pluses vs. a single Ultra in a 3,000 cubic foot room are welcome. Personal experience with an Ultra in that size room are welcome as well.

SharpOne

03-15-10, 12:20 PM

I own two of them and they are incredible subs.

d_m,

I am considering dual 12 pluses. Can you provide additional information on your setup? What size is your room and how do you have the 2 subs positioned? Of course if you have any in room measurements or pictures could you please post them or provide a link if you have already posted such information.

Thanks in advance!:)

Khakimon

03-15-10, 02:12 PM

Are you sure your old PB12 Plus performs similarly to the new one? From the FR graphs on SVS, it looks like in the 16 Hz configuration, the sub should still hit about 80db at 15 Hz, and that's without any room gain.

I'm in debate over trying to get dual PB12 pluses by the wife or just go with a single Ultra. I need to make a decision within the next few weeks so I can get it delivered during my planned vacation.

Any comments in general about dual 12 pluses vs. a single Ultra in a 3,000 cubic foot room are welcome. Personal experience with an Ultra in that size room are welcome as well.

You will need 4 of anything in a room that size.;)
I personally would go for the ultra, but if you watch alot of movies dual pluses would be nice. The ultra is so nice. You have to hear it to believe it. I was very nervous going from the PB2/PLUS to the Ultra. But the ultra trounces the PB2/PLUS in accuracy and high and low output. Mid is close.

Get 4 PB12-NSDs that would kick.:D Right in you budget.
Or do the right thing and sell your kids and get two ultras...;)

Khakimon

03-15-10, 02:17 PM

Are you sure your old PB12 Plus performs similarly to the new one? From the FR graphs on SVS, it looks like in the 16 Hz configuration, the sub should still hit about 80db at 15 Hz, and that's without any room gain.

I am going by the advise SVS gave me. I was originally going to ugrade the dual 12 drivers in the PB2/PLUS to the newer plus driver models.
Jack at SVS informed me that it would be more incremental, than an actual upgrade. Damn the PB2/PLUS was a beast.:eek: Sheer output was crazy. Not super acurate though.
Then inquired about the new plus and the same was pointed out. Incremental at best. The new plus extends alittle lower due to the single vs dual drivers in a single enclosure. Damn physics.
Then he recommended either DUAL PB12-NSDs or the PB13-ULTRA. The rest is history and an empty wallet.:D

SharpOne

03-15-10, 04:29 PM

You will need 4 of anything in a room that size.;)
I personally would go for the ultra, but if you watch alot of movies dual pluses would be nice. The ultra is so nice. You have to hear it to believe it. I was very nervous going from the PB2/PLUS to the Ultra. But the ultra trounces the PB2/PLUS in accuracy and high and low output. Mid is close.

Get 4 PB12-NSDs that would kick.:D Right in you budget.
Or do the right thing and sell your kids and get two ultras...;)

lol, I'll be lucky to get 2 12 pluses or a single Ultra in the house without my wife flipping over the size, much less 4 PB12 NSDs!:eek:

I am going by the advise SVS gave me. I was originally going to ugrade the dual 12 drivers in the PB2/PLUS to the newer plus driver models.
Jack at SVS informed me that it would be more incremental, than an actual upgrade. Damn the PB2/PLUS was a beast.:eek: Sheer output was crazy. Not super acurate though.
Then inquired about the new plus and the same was pointed out. Incremental at best. The new plus extends alittle lower due to the single vs dual drivers in a single enclosure. Damn physics.
Then he recommended either DUAL PB12-NSDs or the PB13-ULTRA. The rest is history and an empty wallet.:D

I think I misread your previous post, I thought you were saying you had a PB12 Plus, not a PB2 Plus. So far their recommendation favors the dual PB12 Pluses in sheer output over the PB13 Ultra.

It's funny, but I was balking at the cost of the PB13 Ultra a bit, now I'm considering dual PB 12 Pluses which will cost even more. I think something is wrong with me.:p

The truth be told the size difference between the Ultra and the PB 12 Plus seems minimal. I think it's going to boil down to WAF unfortunately. I'll try and make a cubed model of the PB 12 Plus, maybe even two and see how they look.

Any other comments welcome as well.

TheFactor

03-15-10, 06:50 PM

Khakimon

03-17-10, 04:24 PM

Nickff

03-17-10, 06:06 PM

After owning the PB2/PLUS and the PB13-ULTRA, I would go the ultra route. You get better SPL across the board and it really digs deep. This thing is so accurate it is not funny.

TheFactor, you should runa low frequency sweep, one for the ultra and one for the plus. I wonder who is gonna win...:rolleyes: And post your ears and guts findings.
I did this with the PB2/PLUS and the ultra wins hands down. In the mid range it was very close( thought the ultra was cleaner), but other then that there was no comparison. The ultra dominates high and low. Period.:)

Also check out these graphs. They tell it all.:)

http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/charts/pb13_ultra_FR_popup.jpg
http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/newpb12plus/fr_pb12plus_1175.jpg

Just keep the following from SVS's website in mind: "Chart does not depict maximum output of this model and is not directly comparable to other SVS models except for frequency response. "

Khakimon

03-17-10, 07:20 PM

Just keep the following from SVS's website in mind: "Chart does not depict maximum output of this model and is not directly comparable to other SVS models except for frequency response. "

True, but it gives an idea of what to expect. The plus has 3 ports. The ultra has 3 ports. Plus has 3" ports, ultra has 3.5" ports and curve tuning? Any idea what this is? So the port area of the ultra is right at 29 inches where as the plus' port area is right at 21 inches.
In addition the plus runs on a 12.5" driver vs the ultra 13.5" driver. This give the plus driver a 122.5 in surface area vs the ultra 143 in surface area. The plus pushes 525 watts vs the ultra pushing 750 watts. 1277 inches is the ultra volume vs the plus' at 9975 cu inches. More cubic inches and more power mean lower and louder.:)

TheFactor

03-17-10, 07:26 PM

After owning the PB2/PLUS and the PB13-ULTRA, I would go the ultra route. You get better SPL across the board and it really digs deep. This thing is so accurate it is not funny.

TheFactor, you should runa low frequency sweep, one for the ultra and one for the plus. I wonder who is gonna win...:rolleyes: And post your ears and guts findings.
I did this with the PB2/PLUS and the ultra wins hands down. In the mid range it was very close( thought the ultra was cleaner), but other then that there was no comparison. The ultra dominates high and low. Period.:)

Also check out these graphs. They tell it all.:)

http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/charts/pb13_ultra_FR_popup.jpg
http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/newpb12plus/fr_pb12plus_1175.jpg

Piff !! I dont need no stinking graphs :p :D I use my ear graphs and in my setup the Plus sounds amazing and doesn't miss a beat and runs/blends with my Ultra beautifully . I love my Ultra dont get me wrong but this plus hits pretty darn hard and I was really impressed and really didnt expect it after getting spoiled with my Ultra but that plus didnt let me down and Im not sure what it is but when running both together :eek: its like the frosting on cake for movies and music !

Khakimon

03-17-10, 07:39 PM

Yes but sub vs sub is what we want. :)You have them both. So do it. Write a small unofficial ear-graph sponsored review! You owe it to the masses!:D

berty52

03-17-10, 08:11 PM

Khakimon said it, I'm on the fence between adding a PB12.5 plus to my older PC-Ultra (TV12 driver) or sell my PC-Ultra and go for a single PB13 Ultra. What do you think?

TheFactor

03-17-10, 08:13 PM

TheFactor

03-17-10, 08:28 PM

Khakimon said it, I'm on the fence between adding a PB12.5 plus to my older PC-Ultra (TV12 driver) or sell my PC-Ultra and go for a single PB13 Ultra. What do you think?

This is my personal QUICK op owning both , the Ultra really is amazing but with that being said for 600 dollars more I would of been really tempted to get dual pb12 plus's instead although owning one of each is incredible :D . I dont know how the plus would match with your older PC-13 so I cant really say. Duals really are nice if I were in your shoes I think I'd go with the Ultra if I couldnt do duals in the near future. But if you can get one plus and sell your pc-13 and get dual pb12 plus's :D So that could be a option for you buy a plus and if it doesnt blend good with your pc-13 sell the 13 and get another plus and im telling you you'll be very happy. Really all the above options you cant go wrong even with just a pb-13 Ultra. Duals really smooth out your bass threw out the room once you have them speaker matched and setup correctly.Well hope this helped a little but I might of made the choices a little harder for you unintentionally of course :o :) BTW Khakimon is wright though the Ultra is a monster.

SharpOne

03-17-10, 09:11 PM

Yes but sub vs sub is what we want. :)You have them both. So do it. Write a small unofficial ear-graph sponsored review! You owe it to the masses!:D

LOL Ok if I have a time this weekend i'll do it :D

I would be very interested in your thoughts on this as well! Please give the people what they want, lol.:rolleyes:

TheFactor

03-17-10, 09:36 PM

I would be very interested in your thoughts on this as well! Please give the people what they want, lol.:rolleyes:

LOL Ok not alot planned this weekend but who knows. I've listened to both subs seprately obviously before but If I have time i'll compare with WOW for the subsonic bass and maybe The Dark night or T2 for a nice combo of mids and lows.

Big Worms

03-17-10, 10:17 PM

I would be very interested in your thoughts on this as well! Please give the people what they want, lol.:rolleyes:

+1 on this request. :)

TheFactor

03-17-10, 10:34 PM

+1 on this request. :)

OMG the pressure is on now ! :)

ronaldjoe

03-18-10, 12:07 AM

maxht

03-18-10, 10:23 AM

It's Panasonic DMP-BD60 being on top of Denon CD player. I will be getting the wooden rack to replace the 'sore thumb' rack. Then, I shall place it on the left side of my setup on top of the AS-EQ1. Then, I'll take another photo to let you have a look.

SharpOne

03-18-10, 02:17 PM

LOL Ok not alot planned this weekend but who knows. I've listened to both subs seprately obviously before but If I have time i'll compare with WOW for the subsonic bass and maybe The Dark night or T2 for a nice combo of mids and lows.

TheFactor,

Whatever you have the time and inclination to do will be much appreciated.:)

Khakimon

03-18-10, 03:19 PM

TheFactor,

Whatever you have the time and inclination to do will be much appreciated.:)

True, true...and now we all hold our breath....:)

Khakimon

03-18-10, 03:29 PM

Khakimon said it, I'm on the fence between adding a PB12.5 plus to my older PC-Ultra (TV12 driver) or sell my PC-Ultra and go for a single PB13 Ultra. What do you think?

I am just biased becuase of my previous sub. It runs side by side with the new plus. It was a beast but not so accurate. It was like a bronco that needed to be tamed.
There is reason the ultra is at the price of 1700.00
That being said, the Ultra will give you a "fullness" and acuracy that the plus can not match.
This is not to knock the plus. My PB2/PLUS held me over for four years. But times change and the amount of sub-20hz stuff that is out there is increasing. Music alone gives enough reason to go the Ultra route. You can alway double up later.:)
If movies is the main use then the plus will do fine. If you want all you can get and then some, it is the ultra hands down.

I say add the ultra to your mix. I think your existing ultra might be offended rubbing elbows with a plus...;)

One more thing, you will get a pretty penny for that sub. Mine was four years and some, and it sold for 850.00. It I purchased it for 1200 plus 50.00 for shipping. Now that is a good resell value....

berty52

03-18-10, 03:59 PM

Thank you Khakimon and TheFactor for your toughs, I appreciate.

TheFactor

03-18-10, 06:20 PM

TheFactor,

Whatever you have the time and inclination to do will be much appreciated.:) Im starting to feel like a famous celebirty thats going to do a review :eek: hope I dont let guys down :)

True, true...and now we all hold our breath....:)
LOL You guys are killing me :p
Thank you Khakimon and TheFactor for your toughs, I appreciate. Your very welcome and please let us know when your ready to pull the trigger and your desicion .Its always exciting for us to because its like were getting a new sub to ! :D

SharpOne

03-18-10, 10:09 PM

Im starting to feel like a famous celebirty thats going to do a review :eek: hope I dont let guys down :)

LOL You guys are killing me :p
Your very welcome and please let us know when your ready to pull the trigger and your desicion .Its always exciting for us to because its like were getting a new sub to ! :D

Well, I'll let you share in my excitement as well. I sold my Sentinel, now I have to figure out what I want to do. It's either a single or dual Epik Empire(s), dual PB12 Pluses, or a single PB13 Ultra...exciting times!

Except for the not having a sub part right now.

TheFactor

03-18-10, 10:31 PM

Well, I'll let you share in my excitement as well. I sold my Sentinel, now I have to figure out what I want to do. It's either a single or dual Epik Empire(s), dual PB12 Pluses, or a single PB13 Ultra...exciting times!

Except for the not having a sub part right now.

Well you already know what my vote would be hands down ! SVS pb12 plus duals or a single pb13 and honestly I think I would lean towards dual pb12 plus's but thats a tough choice. Yes thats very exciting and cant wait for your desicion !!! :D

d_m1010

03-19-10, 11:35 AM

Well you already know what my vote would be hands down ! SVS pb12 plus duals or a single pb13 and honestly I think I would lean towards dual pb12 plus's but thats a tough choice. Yes thats very exciting and cant wait for your desicion !!! :D

I've said this before in the thread but Ed Mullen himself said it's better to have dual pluses than one Ultra.

pepar

03-19-10, 11:43 AM

There is no replacement for displacement.

d_m1010

03-19-10, 11:45 AM

There is no replacement for displacement.

Exactly, smoothes the room modes.

ozer19

03-19-10, 11:48 AM

Sooooo, I finally set up a system for my father in his condo. Here is what I did for him:

RC Mini Surrounds
RC-10 Fronts
RC Mini Center
SVS PB-12 Plus (from now on Betty)
Denon 1610

I put in Hurt Locker and then Micheal Jackson's "This Is It" and the fellow neighbors were at the door the next morning "complementing" the lovely sound :D

This means, I will have to take the lovely Betty and I will have to find her a new home :rolleyes:

Of course I was not going to throw her into the streets, I decided offer her room at my place. I told her, there are no neighbors and she can sing as loud as she desires.

HOWEVER; there is a problem...she is by herself...she needs the whole orchestra. What kind of friends should she get? Any opinions about the Energy setup? Should I duplicate this so she feels right at home :D

Betty currently resides where she was born and she is "itching" to fulfill her purpose in her life.............and mine :D

SharpOne

03-19-10, 12:25 PM

I've said this before in the thread but Ed Mullen himself said it's better to have dual pluses than one Ultra.

Yes, both Ed Mullen and Jack Gilvey have recommended Dual PB12 Pluses over a single PB 13 Ultra to me as well. However, the other factors to consider are WAF as well as space and price.

The biggest one for me probably being WAF, as I imagine it is for many.:rolleyes:

Snowmanick

03-19-10, 12:34 PM

HOWEVER; there is a problem...she is by herself...she needs the whole orchestra. What kind of friends should she get? Any opinions about the Energy setup? Should I duplicate this so she feels right at home :D

Betty currently resides where she was born and she is "itching" to fulfill her purpose in her life.............and mine :D

There are several good playmates from several good companies, including Betty's parents. I'd recommend you determine a budget (both $ and speaker size that will fit in your room) and start checking out the speaker section. Energy speakers are great, I've owned over a dozen myself, but see if you can get some dealers to do in home demo's to fill Betty's dance card and she can pick that which works best for her, and you.

getech

03-19-10, 12:52 PM

I've said this before in the thread but Ed Mullen himself said it's better to have dual pluses than one Ultra.

I have dual PB13 Ultras in the front of my listening room. What would you suggest I set the phase at? I also have the gain at 1/4, wonder if I should tweak it higher?

d_m1010

03-19-10, 12:57 PM

I have dual PB13 Ultras in the front of my listening room. What would you suggest I set the phase at? I also have the gain at 1/4, wonder if I should tweak it higher?

Ed told me to keep the phase on both set to zero and to start the gain calibration at the 12 o'clock position. Hope this helps.

pepar

03-19-10, 01:04 PM

Exactly, smoothes the room modes.
OK. I was thinking more along the lines of crushing my chest. ;)

d_m1010

03-19-10, 01:07 PM

OK. I was thinking more along the lines of crushing my chest. ;)

lol :D

Khakimon

03-19-10, 02:00 PM

Well, I'll let you share in my excitement as well. I sold my Sentinel, now I have to figure out what I want to do. It's either a single or dual Epik Empire(s), dual PB12 Pluses, or a single PB13 Ultra...exciting times!

Except for the not having a sub part right now.

Nice now the fun starts. It is a hard choice no doubt. It was for me for sure. But I know I will be getting a second sub, so for me it was easy. The ultra now, as it were and by christmas or so, a second ultra. The wait is more then worth it.:)

I would hate to second guess, and say what if? all the time....:rolleyes:

The Epiks were tempting, and I too almost went there. But I owned SVS already and went in the comfort zone.

getech

03-19-10, 02:06 PM

Ed told me to keep the phase on both set to zero and to start the gain calibration at the 12 o'clock position. Hope this helps.

Thanks, that's very helpful!

Khakimon

03-19-10, 02:06 PM

I've said this before in the thread but Ed Mullen himself said it's better to have dual pluses than one Ultra.

If it is for mostly movie watching this is a good choice, no doubt. And it is a grand cheaper then dual ultras. For the average user the plus is the way to go with question. Good all around sub.:)
That being said drop them a line and ask for a comparison across the board.
This is were SVS rules. They are quick and honest in their replies.

Khakimon

03-19-10, 02:07 PM

OK. I was thinking more along the lines of crushing my chest. ;)

vibrating nose and chest crushing are a good sign you have arrived....:)
Does blurred vision count?

pepar

03-19-10, 02:13 PM

vibrating nose and chest crushing are a good sign you have arrived....:)
Does blurred vision count?
lksjdf;lja;L

Khakimon

03-19-10, 02:20 PM

lksjdf;lja;L

???:confused:

SharpOne

03-19-10, 02:24 PM

Nice now the fun starts. It is a hard choice no doubt. It was for me for sure. But I know I will be getting a second sub, so for me it was easy. The ultra now, as it were and by christmas or so, a second ultra. The wait is more then worth it.:)

I would hate to second guess, and say what if? all the time....:rolleyes:

The Epiks were tempting, and I too almost went there. But I owned SVS already and went in the comfort zone.

Well, I've made a crude construction of dual PB12 Pluses and placed them in their locations. I had some large cardboard boxes I cut to Plus dimensions.:eek: I'll leave them in place and let the wife have a look at it. I don't mind it, but I'm thinking she's not going to like it.

I thought about just ordering them anyway and waiting for the forgiveness part, but even these PB12 Pluses are pretty big. It will go smoother and be more enjoyable if she's not upset after I've already bought them and they are in place. So for me a single Ultra may have to do the job. Of course the size of the single Ultra is a bit larger, but there's no way around that.

We shall see...I'll keep my fingers crossed...wish me luck!:)

SharpOne

03-19-10, 02:26 PM

lksjdf;lja;L

I think that's supposed to simulate his typing with blurred vision.

Khakimon

03-19-10, 02:31 PM

I think that's supposed to simulate his typing with blurred vision.

lol:D
I see now, that he, could not see.
Nice pepar, nice...:)

Khakimon

03-19-10, 02:33 PM

Well, I've made a crude construction of dual PB12 Pluses and placed them in their locations. I had some large cardboard boxes I cut to Plus dimensions.:eek: I'll leave them in place and let the wife have a look at it. I don't mind it, but I'm thinking she's not going to like it.

I thought about just ordering them anyway and waiting for the forgiveness part, but even these PB12 Pluses are pretty big. It will go smoother and be more enjoyable if she's not upset after I've already bought them and they are in place. So for me a single Ultra may have to do the job. Of course the size of the single Ultra is a bit larger, but there's no way around that.

We shall see...I'll keep my fingers crossed...wish me luck!:)

If your heart is set on duals then just do it. I say the ultra, but you gotta follow your heart. So just really push it and get dual ultras. In the end she will feel the light....:)

d_m1010

03-19-10, 02:57 PM

vibrating nose and chest crushing are a good sign you have arrived....:)
Does blurred vision count?

Ahhh that's what my dual Buttkicker LFEs with dual Buttkicker amps are for - by far the best addition to my HT thus far.

d_m1010

03-19-10, 03:00 PM

Well, I've made a crude construction of dual PB12 Pluses and placed them in their locations. I had some large cardboard boxes I cut to Plus dimensions.:eek: I'll leave them in place and let the wife have a look at it. I don't mind it, but I'm thinking she's not going to like it.

I thought about just ordering them anyway and waiting for the forgiveness part, but even these PB12 Pluses are pretty big. It will go smoother and be more enjoyable if she's not upset after I've already bought them and they are in place. So for me a single Ultra may have to do the job. Of course the size of the single Ultra is a bit larger, but there's no way around that.

We shall see...I'll keep my fingers crossed...wish me luck!:)

The dual Pluses are simply awesome. Don't listen to Khaki.

Khakimon

03-19-10, 03:14 PM

The dual Pluses are simply awesome. Don't listen to Khaki.

I am not bashing the plus. I owned it's ancestor for goodness sake. These are great subs.

It's just that the ultra is better. I speak from experience.

Kinda like a pure breed house cat, like a Siamese vs a real cat, like a Puma.

They are both nice animals, just one will kill the other. :D

I own the Puma and d_m1010 owns two house cats.

Which by the way always try to bully my Puma...

Anyway, just ignor d_m1010, he is unstable. Basskickeritis they call it.:eek: His brain was shaken alittle to much the dotors said....poor d_m1010...:(

d_m1010

03-19-10, 03:24 PM

Next to most 'normal' subs, the Pluses are incredible in performance and size. Having two of them I can say without question that I have no want of more bass.

d_m1010

03-19-10, 03:27 PM

Ahhh poor Khaki, he just wants a real amp. Call me when you get the XPA 3. :)

Khakimon

03-19-10, 03:29 PM

Next to most 'normal' subs, the Pluses are incredible in performance and size. Having two of them I can say without question that I have no want of more bass.

true, ample bass is there in your setup, no doubt.:)

Khakimon

03-19-10, 03:32 PM

Ahhh poor Khaki, he just wants a real amp. Call me when you get the XPA 3. :)

Want is key here. Getting is the hard part. For me anyway. For the size of my room it will be over kill, but so is my sub.

And this is the SVS thread, not the EMOTIVA one.
Those bass shaker/kickers have definitely rattled something loose...;)

d_m1010

03-19-10, 03:35 PM

Want is key here. Getting is the hard part. For me anyway. For the size of my room it will be over kill, but so is my sub.

And this is the SVS thread, not the EMOTIVA one.
Those bass shaker/kickers have definitely rattled something loose...;)

I'm just 'giving you the gears' my friend.

Khakimon

03-19-10, 03:44 PM

I'm just 'giving you the gears' my friend.

I know, I know. ;)

TheFactor

03-19-10, 10:05 PM

Ed told me to keep the phase on both set to zero and to start the gain calibration at the 12 o'clock position. Hope this helps. And you should adjust the phase I believe on the sub closest to you so you get at least 3 to 4 db increase with both subs on that is if your not getting a increase vs one on because there probably canceling each other out and then use your gain on sub or your avr to lower db on both subs to around 2db hotter then your speakers.

I think that's supposed to simulate his typing with blurred vision.
and good drugs and or a few drinks :p :D I had a few drinks and I know exactly what he wrote ;)

d_m1010

03-20-10, 09:24 AM

And you should adjust the phase I believe on the sub closest to you so you

Nope, he said to keep them at zero.

TheFactor

03-20-10, 12:55 PM

Nope, he said to keep them at zero.

LOL yes you should keep it at zero when you start out but if you dont gain any DB after speaker matching when running both subs at the same time vs running just one then you need to adjust the phase its a basic common practice. Heres what JacK From SVS sent me when I added my new sub to the mix . Here's the calibration routine for dual subwoofers::

1. Set the AVR master volume to 0.0

2. Set the phase to 0 on both subs.

3. Set the SPL meter to C-weighted Slow 70 scale at the listening position, at head level, pointed at the front stage, and angled upward at a 45 degree angle.

4. Play the test tones for all speaker channels and adjust each channel to 75 dB on the meter (that would be +5 on the meter when set to the 70 scale).

5. Set the subwoofer channel level to +1 in the AVR.

6. Turn on subwoofer #1 only. Play the subwoofer test tone and adjust the gain on subwoofer #1 until the SPL meter reads 72-74 dB (it will fluctuate so try for an average of 73 dB).

Turn on subwoofer #2 only. Play the subwoofer test tone and adjust the gain on subwoofer #2 until the SPL meter reads 72-74 dB (it will fluctuate so try for an average of 73 dB).
Turn on both subwoofers. Play the subwoofer test tone and verify there is a 6 dB increase to 78-80 dB (an average of 79 dB).
If there is not a 6 dB increase, adjust the phase on the CLOSER subwoofer until you get the most possible reinforcement. If the subs are separated, you may only get 4 dB max. A helper is useful at this point.
Once you have achieved the most possible reinforcement, reduce the subwoofer channel level until the combined SPL with both subwoofers running is 73-75 dB on average.

d_m1010

03-20-10, 01:33 PM

Yeah I know lol. I was trying to get a rise out of you, or Khaki.

I have identical subs equa-distant from the listening position, therefore both of the subs are set to zero phase.

d_m1010

03-20-10, 01:44 PM

Ed said that in my case, because they are in the front two corners displaced, to keep them at zero.

TheFactor

03-20-10, 01:45 PM

Yeah I know lol. I was trying to get a rise out of you, or Khaki.

I have identical subs equa-distant from the listening position, therefore both of the subs are set to zero phase.

Yes even though there the same subs and at equal distance it doesn't mean that the phase should "always" be set at zero ;) Yes you got my attention because I just didn't want some new folks trying to setup there duals for the first time and gaining no increase in db levels because they left there sub phase at zero and didn't try adjusting the phase and they were canceling each other out. You probably would of got a bigger rise out of them when they realised they should of adjusted there phase but were following your instructins instead ;) :p:D Needless to say no harm no fowl love is still in the house :)

TheFactor

03-20-10, 01:48 PM

Ed said that in my case because they are in the front to corners displaced, to keep them at zero.

Probably so but did you see how many db you gained when using your spl meter and running one sub vs two ? You might of left some db on the table no punt intended :p :D Seriously it wouldnt hurt to check . My friend has dual subs also although there not corner loaded but there equal distance and the same subs and gained 6db when adjusting the phase :eek: and thats nice because you can lower your gain on sub or avr level and your subs dont have to work as hard and gives you more head room imo . With my setup I gained almost 7db when adjusting the phase .

d_m1010

03-20-10, 02:02 PM

Probably so but did you see how many db you gained when using your spl meter and running one sub vs two ? You might of left some db on the table no punt intended :p :D Seriously it wouldnt hurt to check . My friend has dual subs also although there not corner loaded but there equal distance and the same subs and gained 6db when adjusting the phase :eek: and thats nice because you can lower your gain on sub or avr level and your subs dont have to work as hard and gives you more head room imo . With my setup I gained almost 7db when adjusting the phase .

Oh they're set properly. My walls flex like you wouldn't believe. I'm gonna have to call in a contractor me thinks.

d_m1010

03-20-10, 02:14 PM

TheFactor

03-20-10, 02:41 PM

This is a quote from one of the emails from Ed where he repeatedly tells me to leave both subs set to zero phase:

"Make sure to set both phase controls to 0. "

Ed Mullen, PE
Customer Service Director / Product Development Manager
SV Sound, LLC

This is the correct way to setup dual subs per Jack Gilvey at SVS 1. Set the AVR master volume to 0.0

2. Set the phase to 0 on both subs.

3. Set the SPL meter to C-weighted Slow 70 scale at the listening position, at head level, pointed at the front stage, and angled upward at a 45 degree angle.

4. Play the test tones for all speaker channels and adjust each channel to 75 dB on the meter (that would be +5 on the meter when set to the 70 scale).

5. Set the subwoofer channel level to +1 in the AVR.

6. Turn on subwoofer #1 only. Play the subwoofer test tone and adjust the gain on subwoofer #1 until the SPL meter reads 72-74 dB (it will fluctuate so try for an average of 73 dB).

Turn on subwoofer #2 only. Play the subwoofer test tone and adjust the gain on subwoofer #2 until the SPL meter reads 72-74 dB (it will fluctuate so try for an average of 73 dB).
Turn on both subwoofers. Play the subwoofer test tone and verify there is a 6 dB increase to 78-80 dB (an average of 79 dB).
If there is not a 6 dB increase, adjust the phase on the CLOSER subwoofer until you get the most possible reinforcement. If the subs are separated, you may only get 4 dB max. A helper is useful at this point.
Once you have achieved the most possible reinforcement, reduce the subwoofer channel level until the combined SPL with both subwoofers running is 73-75 dB on average.
:p :D :cool:

d_m1010

03-20-10, 02:43 PM

ok there mister, but mine are staying at 0. :cool:

TheFactor

03-20-10, 02:49 PM

ok there mister, but mine are staying at 0. :cool:

:p LOL Hey btw what subs are you running ? Im getting ready to throw in U-571 I Heard it has great LFE . My walls arent cracking yet but there flexing :D Next on my list this weekend to is The Hurt locker BTW Thats what Jack at SVS Reccomended after adjusting my Phase :p ......................J/K :D

d_m1010

03-20-10, 02:55 PM

:p LOL Hey btw what subs are you running ? Im getting ready to throw in U-571 I Heard it has great LFE . My walls arent cracking yet but there flexing :D Next on my list this weekend to is The Hurt locker BTW Thats what Jack at SVS Reccomended after adjusting my Phase :p ......................J/K :D

I have dual (current model) Gloss Black Pb12 Pluses in a 12x12x7 sealed room. They actually scare me sometimes when they hit, especially during Terminator Salvation. The force they put into the room is devastating. I think I might be pushing them but the're not even breaking a sweat lol.

d_m1010

03-20-10, 02:58 PM

and with the dual Buttkickers, oh my...

TheFactor

03-20-10, 03:00 PM

I have dual (current model) Gloss Black Pb12 Pluses in a 12x12x7 sealed room. They actually scare me sometimes when they hit, especially during Terminator Salvation. The force they put into the room is devastating. I think I might be pushing them but the're not even breaking a sweat lol.

Nice !! The Plus is a great Sub !! OMG DUAL PLUS'S IN A SEALED ROOM MUST BE AMAZING .I was very impressed when adding it with my PB13 Ultra. Even solo that plus hits hard and you are so wright Terminator Salvation has some wicked LFE I love that movie.

TheFactor

03-20-10, 03:01 PM

and with the dual Buttkickers, oh my...

Buttkickers must be a great addition and adds to the effect im sure. I might have to check some of those out someday .

d_m1010

03-20-10, 03:02 PM

Buttkickers must be a great addition and adds to the effect im sure. I might have to check some of those out someday .

They are the coolest things I've ever added to my HT. :D

TheFactor

03-20-10, 03:05 PM

They are the coolest things I've ever added to my HT. :D

I might have to pick some up sooner than I planned, are they easy to mount under a leather couch and wire up ?

d_m1010

03-20-10, 03:09 PM

I might have to pick some up sooner than I planned, are they easy to mount under a leather couch and wire up ?

Really easy. I bought the LFE kit which comes with a mounting plate for under the couch leg if you can't internally mount them. I tore open the bottom of the loveseat and mounted them to the cross beam. They can hit sooo hard they'll make your vision blur.

d_m1010

03-20-10, 03:11 PM

The Pluses in a small room coupled with the Buttkickers is total bass heaven. :D

TheFactor

03-20-10, 03:15 PM

Really easy. I bought the LFE kit which comes with a mounting plate for under the couch leg if you can't internally mount them. I tore open the bottom of the loveseat and mounted them to the cross beam. They can hit sooo hard they'll make your vision blur.
I love that feeling :D
The Pluses in a small room coupled with the Buttkickers is total bass heaven. :D

I bet lol I had to add great gramma pads for under my subs because everything was rattling in my room including pictures on the wall and got tired of straighting them up all the time but It would be nice to just having your seating area get the effect so I'd probably mount them to the frame also .

d_m1010

03-20-10, 03:23 PM

I love that feeling :D

I bet lol I had to add great gramma pads for under my subs because everything was rattling in my room including pictures on the wall and got tired of straighting them up all the time but It would be nice to just having your seating area get the effect so I'd probably mount them to the frame also .

I also have Great Grammas under the Pluses. They are a lot tighter with them.

TheFactor

03-20-10, 03:28 PM

I also have Great Grammas under the Pluses. They are a lot tighter with them.

I thought the same thing not only did it help with my pictures on the wall but I noticed that it seemed to make the subs sound more accurate and or tighter also .

davidcrowe

03-20-10, 04:42 PM

Well, I've made a crude construction of dual PB12 Pluses and placed them in their locations. I had some large cardboard boxes I cut to Plus dimensions.:eek: I'll leave them in place and let the wife have a look at it. I don't mind it, but I'm thinking she's not going to like it.

I thought about just ordering them anyway and waiting for the forgiveness part, but even these PB12 Pluses are pretty big. It will go smoother and be more enjoyable if she's not upset after I've already bought them and they are in place. So for me a single Ultra may have to do the job. Of course the size of the single Ultra is a bit larger, but there's no way around that.

We shall see...I'll keep my fingers crossed...wish me luck!:)

I tried to get my second pb12+/2 into the theater without my wife noticing just to see if it could be done... keep the lights dim... get the shipping materials removed... but no... there was no hiding the pair of them behind our top row of seating or the dramatic change that it brought to our movie watching.

Khakimon

03-20-10, 09:07 PM

I would figure the having the subs on opposite side of the room , the phase would be opposite each other. Like 0 and 180.
:)I hope to find out later this year.:)

And with firing my PB13 into the wall , you get increased db along with the incesent rattles. Damn rattles...:( Doors vibrate so hard it is not funny...
Wall hangings hang no more... It is really sad...

Khakimon

03-20-10, 09:08 PM

I tried to get my second pb12+/2 into the theater without my wife noticing just to see if it could be done... keep the lights dim... get the shipping materials removed... but no... there was no hiding the pair of them behind our top row of seating or the dramatic change that it brought to our movie watching.

You fool! A wife can smell new electronics a mile away. You should have used some fabreeze...;)

Khakimon

03-20-10, 09:10 PM

I would love to read a post about have dual PB12-NSDs. I almost went that way, and bet they sound great.
Nobody talks too much about them....:confused:

TheFactor

03-20-10, 09:21 PM

I would love to read a post about have dual PB12-NSDs. I almost went that way, and bet they sound great.
Nobody talks too much about them....:confused:

I had a pb12 nsd it was my first SVS And it was great sub but the Plus and the Ultra really are a different animal .

SharpOne

03-20-10, 09:52 PM

ok there mister, but mine are staying at 0. :cool:

So, did you perform all of those steps minus the phase adjustment? How did you setup your pluses?

lol, wife didn't react as adversely to my crude 12 plus mockup as expected. There may be hope for duals yet.

TheFactor

03-20-10, 10:03 PM

So, did you perform all of those steps minus the phase adjustment? How did you setup your pluses?

lol, wife didn't react as adversely to my crude 12 plus mockup as expected. There may be hope for duals yet.

Should of put little hearts on the boxes for the wife :D

SharpOne

03-20-10, 10:21 PM

Should of put little hearts on the boxes for the wife :D

lol, not a bad idea...good finishing move!

wormraper

03-21-10, 04:45 PM

ransac

03-21-10, 05:09 PM

Hey Guys, long time no see in the SVS thread. I have a slight issue. I have an SVS-PB10 ISD that has a blown fuse (heard it pop today) I'm having a slight issue on getting to the amp to replace the fuse. anyone got instructions for pulling the amp off safely?? do I go through the front or use the screws on the back to pull off the amp etc...I'm not sure they did the fuse on the PB10-ISD as my +/2, but typically for SVS, the fuse is built into the power cord socket. Look at the bottom of the socket where you connect the power cord and you should see the fuse. It is a pull out tray.

If it isn't there, then remove the amp. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to replace the fuse reaching in through the driver's hole.

wormraper

03-21-10, 05:19 PM

I'm not sure they did the fuse on the PB10-ISD as my +/2, but typically for SVS, the fuse is built into the power cord socket. Look at the bottom of the socket where you connect the power cord and you should see the fuse. It is a pull out tray.

If it isn't there, then remove the amp. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to replace the fuse reaching in through the driver's hole.

thanks, I found it under the power plug. The fuse was fine. What happened was when the cat yanked the cable out of the back (coax cable) it stripped it and left the gold tipping casing inside the coax out port on the amp. So when It wasn't getting a good connection. used tweezers to pull out the casing and used a back up cable. Voila. Fixed.

oOOBillO0o

03-22-10, 04:04 AM

pepar

03-22-10, 07:43 AM

I searched this thread and looked on the SVSound.com site, before I email them, does anyone know if the Ultra series and the EQ1 can be switched run on 110V and 220V?

The only sub that I am aware of is the Paradigm Signature sub family that has this (similar) capability..

Potentially moving to Europe.
As with power bricks for personal electronics such as laptops and cellphone chargers, the AS-EQ1's is marked input 100v - 240v, 50Hz-60Hz. You will need an adapter to physically plug the US AC cord into an outlet as most international countries are different than here in the US.

BTW, there are no switches on it so operation will be transparent to the user.

Bon voyage,
Jeff

ScottDillard

03-22-10, 11:01 AM

rdgrimes

03-22-10, 11:09 AM

Can someone point me to where to look for what the lowest frequencies in a CD, DVD, etc., might be found?

Is 16Hz enough? Mussorgsky/Stravinsky on the Great Organ of the Tanhalle, Zurich (http://www.amazon.com/Mussorgsky-Pictures-Exhibition-Stravinsky-Petrouchka/dp/B000001Q80/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1269274083&sr=1-3-fkmr1).

pepar

03-22-10, 11:16 AM

Quick comment and a question at the end. I finally upgraded my old SVS 20-39pc (serial number #193 from 2001) to a PC13-Ultra. Thank you to everyone on this forum for all the opinions and y'all are definitely right - the difference is definitely noticeable and appreciated.

Can someone point me to where to look for what the lowest frequencies in a CD, DVD, etc., might be found? One of my discoveries over the past few weeks is a new "reference" CD to play for people to show off the SVS in music mode: Jennifer Hudson's album, Track 5 "What's Wrong" and it has some extremely low bass for a music album. I've love to know the frequencies...?
There are threads - here on AVS and other forums - devoted to LF and VLF content in movies and music. At least one thread has graphs showing the frequencies. A few movies that I use to demo bass is the opening battle sequence of Master and Commander Far of the World, the helicopter chase/tunnel scene Die Hard 4 (love the car flying at them through the air) and the cave escape scene in Iron Man.

A word of warning though on that last one, it had my subs flapping and made me go out and double up on them.

Jeff

ScottDillard

03-22-10, 12:36 PM

Thanks for the replies. I have several organ CDs showing off 16Hz/32' pipes but this particular track is probably the lowest thing I've heard in pop music and "plays well" for audiences not particularly enchanted with classical music. I'll see if I can figure out a good search term for finding the music/movie LF/VLF content threads...

pepar

03-22-10, 01:53 PM

ser182

03-22-10, 03:31 PM

b33chtom

03-23-10, 12:44 PM

berty52

03-23-10, 03:53 PM

I just order a piano black PB12-Plus today. I will pair it to my PC-Ultra (12"). It will be home only in April. Sonicboom didn't had it in stock so they have to order it at SVS USA.

Khakimon

03-23-10, 04:46 PM

I am also looking for a sub. My room is 15 x 21. I sit 15 ft from my current sub. The room has 8 ft ceiling. The ultra is way out of my range. Would one Plus work or two NSD series. Is there a new model Plus coming out? Thanks.

Yes new ones are coming out. They are bringing out some new sealed boxes. One of them is like 13in and another will be 16in or so. 16 in will be close to 2400.00. :eek: I need that one...
If you need really low response then dual nsds. Dual will give the plus a run in the high and mid section, but will trump it in the lower end.

The plus will be more "accurate" within it's range.

pepar

03-23-10, 05:27 PM

http://svsound.com/products/7_SVS_SBSeriesSheetCES10Web.pdf

I want FOUR, you know, just for balance.

http://www.peparsplace.com/storage/plus13_1940.jpg

TheFactor

03-23-10, 06:02 PM

I just order a piano black PB12-Plus today. I will pair it to my PC-Ultra (12"). It will be home only in April. Sonicboom didn't had it in stock so they have to order it at SVS USA.
Your going to love your plus I also just picked up a plus and paired it with my PB13 Ultra and blends great and will knock your socks off :D
http://svsound.com/products/7_SVS_SBSeriesSheetCES10Web.pdf

I want FOUR, you know, just for balance.

http://www.peparsplace.com/storage/plus13_1940.jpg

MMM MMMMM Eye candy and arent they purtty. SVS has some of the best looking and quailty made drivers out there :D

TheFactor

03-23-10, 07:43 PM

I have dual PB13 Ultras in the front of my listening room. What would you suggest I set the phase at? I also have the gain at 1/4, wonder if I should tweak it higher?

You should start out at least with the gain at the 8:00 position ;) have you figured out your phase yet ?

d_m1010

03-24-10, 11:13 AM

I just order a piano black PB12-Plus today. I will pair it to my PC-Ultra (12"). It will be home only in April. Sonicboom didn't had it in stock so they have to order it at SVS USA.

Nice. I have dual Pluses which I ordered from SonicBoom. They are great to deal with.

JAR5197

03-24-10, 04:36 PM

(Is 16Hz enough? Mussorgsky/Stravinsky on the Great Organ of the Tanhalle, Zurich.)

HA, I have that and just played it the other day.
GREAT suggestion for a reference piece.
+1

Khakimon

03-24-10, 04:56 PM

http://svsound.com/products/7_SVS_SBSeriesSheetCES10Web.pdf

I want FOUR, you know, just for balance.

http://www.peparsplace.com/storage/plus13_1940.jpg

Universal harmony begins with balance.
Balance begins with large gratuitous amounts of earth shaking bass.
Balance is good... real good....:D

And yes sir, those is some perty woofer drivers , if do ever say so...

Khakimon

03-24-10, 05:00 PM

This talk of the Grammas has piqued my interest. I recently picked up a PC-12NSD, does the Gramma do as much for the cylinder subs since they already have a baseplate facing the driver cone? In this case it's in a basement, carpet over cement and a very big, open room. My old PC20-39 upstairs (also big open room) sure can rattle things as well, but I'm really looking forward to pushing this new sub.

Thanks.

If you are on carpet it should help. You want that thing grounded firmly. If it is not "locked" in place you will loose output for sure. You can also look into spiked feet. Those would help also.

maxht

03-25-10, 10:28 PM

Previously, my PC12-Plus is on Subdude. Now, my PB13-Ultra is on Gramma with its shoes removed.

getech

03-25-10, 10:32 PM

Previously, my PC12-Plus is on Subdude. Now, my PB13-Ultra is on Gramma with its shoes removed.

huh?

TheFactor

03-25-10, 10:46 PM

Previously, my PC12-Plus is on Subdude. Now, my PB13-Ultra is on Gramma with its shoes removed.

I left mine on my pb13 when setting on my great gramma, but just curious why did you prefer to remove yours?

Nickff

03-26-10, 05:35 AM

My Gramma comes today. I am not sure how I am going to lift the PB12-Plus to get it under it, but...

TheFactor

03-26-10, 07:54 AM

My Gramma comes today. I am not sure how I am going to lift the PB12-Plus to get it under it, but...

You could always un-screw the feet on the plus and then you can just lift it up on a angle a little and slide it on the gramma .

Nickff

03-26-10, 10:41 AM

You could always un-screw the feet on the plus and then you can just lift it up on a angle a little and slide it on the gramma .

I considered that, but then I have find a place to store the feet. :)

Pelly_NV

03-26-10, 11:09 AM

jac86

03-26-10, 11:24 AM

dewd

03-26-10, 11:51 AM

Why are you guys buying GRAMMAS? I have a cylinder now, but my old sub rested on a homemade version of one of these. It cost me $8.00 and took less than 30 minutes to make! MDF, carpet, and dense foam rails from the local live sound reinforcement shop. To each his own, so no disrespect meant to anyone.

Because it is easy, not overpriced, and I don't want/can't build anything as nice.

Rhetorical question... Why are you using SVS subs when it is cheaper to build your own?

stitch1

03-26-10, 11:53 AM

Anyone here using the PB12-NSD? I see it mentioned from time to time, but haven't read any personal reviews on this sub. For the price, it looks like a winner for those that can't afford the Plus (I wish!).
Yeah I have a PB12-NSD I really like it a lot! I also have their SCS speakers and they all sound GREAT! I'm not sure what you are wanting to know about it. I hope to one day have a ultra but till then the NSD is good enough for me.

jac86

03-26-10, 12:03 PM

Because it is easy, not overpriced, and I don't want/can't build anything as nice.

Rhetorical question... Why are you using SVS subs when it is cheaper to build your own?

You're not getting away with that being rhetorical.;)

I've found that in life, the more you learn the more you realize how little you knew. I was going to go DIY on my sub but then I did about 3 days of reading. There are a lot of calculations to go through to make it just right. I even tried several of them of them, but as most would agree, there's a lot more to a proper DIY subwoofer than a peice of wood with carpeting nailed to it. I just realized my limitations, as you have, and went with an SVS for peace of mind.

Thanks for the response, I really mean it. I am a business major/entrepreneur and I'm always trying to probe the depths of the human spending habit.

jac86

03-26-10, 12:08 PM

maxht

03-26-10, 12:26 PM

I left mine on my pb13 when setting on my great gramma, but just curious why did you prefer to remove yours?
Coz mine is Gramma. When I put the Ultra on it, the feets is merely touching the other end of the Gramma since it is smaller.

Looks like sitting precariously. So, I removed it all and put Ultra back on Gramma. Lay flat with protruding sides (all 4).

dewd

03-26-10, 01:22 PM

BTW dewd, how do you like your axioms (I checked out you HT link)? I was VERY interested in those exact models, but ended up going with another brand mostly b/c I found a steal on them used. I am still actively considering Axiom as my next brand to try, but of course can't find anywhere to demo.

I like them. I listened to many speakers locally and narrowed my choices down to ones I could afford. I then ordered the Axioms for a demo and decided to keep them (and saving nearly $1000).

If I had to compare the sound of the M60's, I would say listen to B&W 700 series. They are not as bright as some have said. I hate bright (Klipsch), so I would not keep them if they were.

Check the Axiom forums for someone close by to give you a demo. Or order and try them for 30 days. You are only out return shipping if you don't keep them.

b33chtom

03-26-10, 02:33 PM

You're not getting away with that being rhetorical.;)

I am a business major/entrepreneur and I'm always trying to probe the depths of the human spending habit.

jac86, while I am perfectly capable of building something like the gramma I find the time invested (both in obtaining materials and actual construction) on top of the nominal material cost just isn't worth it. Case in point, I received my Denon AVR-1910 and the SVS SBS-01 surrounds (to complement the PC-12NSD and SCS-01 front 3 I received earlier) nearly 3 weeks ago and haven't even hooked them up yet, and it could be another week or two before I can do it properly! :mad:

Khakimon

03-26-10, 03:10 PM

jac86

03-26-10, 04:06 PM

Thanks guys. It seems that you just find the GRAMMA to be a good enough deal not to bother with the stress of DIY projects. And they are usually stressful. I wanted one with my old subwoofer, but the sub was just such an odd size that both the small and the great G'MAs would have looked strange underneath it. I ended up making my own(admittedly not as pretty) riser a 1/4" wider than the sub in each dimension.

One more question too...I've got tweaker madness! I want to start experimenting with the PEQ on my PC12-Plus. What deficiencies would call for what changes on the PEQ? I currently have it all at 0. I don't really have any describable complaints at the moment, but would like to use some of my time this weekend to tweak around. Thanks!

jac86

03-26-10, 04:15 PM

WOO HOO!!:D My one day ban has been lifted!

Has anyone tried running from the pre-out(L+R) on the AVR to the sub input (L+R) I f you set the speakers to full or large will all the LFE content make it to the sub. And if so could this be better then using the sub out? I assume you will have to use the x-over on the Ultra amp.:confused:

As far as I understand the LFE, being a seperate channel entirely, comes out only at the LFE pre-out of the AVR. Also, the only reason to run a speaker signal through the sub is if you don't have a LFE output on the AVR. For example, I don't know if it is possible to get <20Hz data out of any other channel than the LFE. I would say that this option isn't better than the LFE out, assuming that there is an LFE out.

Also I don't know what you're planning but I've been told by some respected guys on here not to use the speaker level out and the pre-out of the same channel simultaneously.

If any of this is wrong, please correct me. I don't wont to be the provider of misinformation.

Khakimon

03-26-10, 04:23 PM

I believe I read this on parts express....

pepar

03-26-10, 06:18 PM

berty52

03-26-10, 06:18 PM

jac86

03-26-10, 06:32 PM

Alright, I'll bite, WTF is a Gramma?

No biting necessary.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=GRAMMA+RISER&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

jac86

03-26-10, 06:35 PM

@Khakimon

Would the AVR be set to "L/R+LFE" in this setup?

jac86

03-26-10, 06:41 PM

Hi,
I need your help here, I'm not sure if I ask it here anyway, I already have a PC-Ultra with the 12" driver just before SVS change it for the 13" and I want to have more bass in my room (20' x 11' x 7'). It's located in the back of my room behind the main sitting place. I can just add a PB12.5-Plus in the front and calibrate them properly or my 2nd option is to sell the PC-Ultra and buy a PB13-Ultra. Ed from SVS tend for 2 sub rather than one big. What is the best thing to do.

As I have heard, you just can't match the low output of the PB13-Ultra with two Pluses. And for a room that size, unless you are going for absolute monster low end, you probably wouldn't need the output of two pluses. Although two Pluses would give you nice n' even response. As TheFactor says, you gan get the big one and then double up later if you want. He has found great happiness with one Plus and one Ultra.

pepar

03-26-10, 06:51 PM

No biting necessary.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=GRAMMA+RISER&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
An AMP isolation riser? AMP? :rolleyes:

dewd

03-26-10, 07:17 PM

An AMP isolation riser? AMP? :rolleyes:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=644330

The Gramma is the pro model (made for musicians). The SubDude is the consumer HT model. Both work the same, but the Gramma is bigger.

If you have vibrations in the floor, windows, doors, etc., a Gramma will help eliminate them. In my case, it help calm the rattling doors and windows in my 50 year old house.

BTW - I have 2 grammas under my sub, one was not big enough.

Khakimon

03-26-10, 09:51 PM

@Khakimon

Would the AVR be set to "L/R+LFE" in this setup?

Yes.

SharpOne

03-26-10, 10:00 PM

As I have heard, you just can't match the low output of the PB13-Ultra with two Pluses. And for a room that size, unless you are going for absolute monster low end, you probably wouldn't need the output of two pluses. Although two Pluses would give you nice n' even response. As TheFactor says, you gan get the big one and then double up later if you want. He has found great happiness with one Plus and one Ultra.

What do you think about dual pluses vs a single ultra in a room about twice that size...about 3,000 cu. ft.?

TheFactor

03-26-10, 10:23 PM

I considered that, but then I have find a place to store the feet. :)
Dont you have a big closet to put them in ;)

TheFactor

03-26-10, 10:24 PM

d_m1010

03-27-10, 07:06 AM

What do you think about dual pluses vs a single ultra in a room about twice that size...about 3,000 cu. ft.?

Ed Mullen always says to go with 2 Pluses over one Ultra.

Nickff

03-27-10, 07:50 AM

Has anyone purchased and used a longer power cord for their sub?

d_m1010

03-27-10, 08:01 AM

Has anyone purchased and used a longer power cord for their sub?

I bought some Emotiva X-Series power cords that are 4 meters long for my duals.

SharpOne

03-27-10, 01:55 PM

Ed Mullen always says to go with 2 Pluses over one Ultra.

There he is! Are you still enjoying your duals? Forgive me if you gave an answer previously, but how big is your room?

TheFactor

03-27-10, 02:19 PM

There he is! Are you still enjoying your duals? Forgive me if you gave an answer previously, but how big is your room?

Just a guess but im sure he is ;)

Khakimon

03-27-10, 03:32 PM

Every one seems to want two pluses, which is great for most applications.
But like I say over and over the ULTRA is more accurate and more capable.
I digs alot deeper alot louder.It has a much more flat response across the board right out of the box.
Pluses are great for most 20hz and above movie material.
My room is 1880 sq ft with one ULTRA. 120hz to 15 hz is flat as can be now. The under 15hz stuff is just breath taking. Unreal actually for one lil' ol 13.5 driver. It pulls 10hz at 70db easily. Not DIY levels, but then it is one 13.5in driver and only 750 watts.

If you fire it into a wall close to a corner it will do, and impress until you get the funds for another one SharpOne. By the way you will pick up 4db to 6db with this orientation.

Plus or Dual Pluses can not touch the low end of the ULTRA...

TheFactor

03-27-10, 04:35 PM

The Plus really does hit hard as you know I own both a plus and a Ultra so im not biased either way but I must say graph or no graph when I hooked up my plus it was not a night and day difference to the Ultra and was a 600 dollar price increase worth it ? Well im not to sure and no matter what the graphs say my ears tell me something else this plus is very accurate and I guarantee most will be very impressed with it . Again I love my Ultra its my pride and joy and I love its performance and looks and the combo of the plus and the ultra is like the best of both worlds to me but with that being said if I had to do it all over again would I spend 3600 dollars on duals Ultras or 2400 for two plus's I'd have to think real long and hard about it and to honest I think I'd go with dual plus's. This oppinion is not coming from a highly educated graph specialist number crunching Audio reviewer but from a guy who has been around audio/video toys for a very long time with very accurate ears ;) and eyes for good audio/video and with advice and balancing that with what I saw and heard is how I picked out my mini HT and I think i've done pretty good without being as graph savy as some but instead used my ears, eyes and reviews :) BTW Did I mention how much I love my SVS Ultra and Plus ? When playing to together there as graceful as two butterfly's dancing in the wind :eek: until they land then there like King King and you can feel there thunder :D

ozer19

03-27-10, 04:44 PM

d_m1010

03-27-10, 05:22 PM

the plus really does hit hard as you know i own both a plus and a ultra so im not biased either way but i must say graph or no graph when i hooked up my plus it was not a night and day difference to the ultra and was a 600 dollar price increase worth it ? Well im not to sure and no matter what the graphs say my ears tell me something else this plus is very accurate and i guarantee most will be very impressed with it . Again i love my ultra its my pride and joy and i love its performance and looks and the combo of the plus and the ultra is like the best of both worlds to me but with that being said if i had to do it all over again would i spend 3600 dollars on duals ultras or 2400 for two plus's i'd have to think real long and hard about it and to honest i think i'd go with dual plus's. This oppinion is not coming from a highly educated graph specialist number crunching audio reviewer but from a guy who has been around audio/video toys for a very long time with very accurate ears ;) and eyes for good audio/video and with advice and balancing that with what i saw and heard is how i picked out my mini ht and i think i've done pretty good without being as graph savy as some but instead used my ears, eyes and reviews :) btw did i mention how much i love my svs ultra and plus ? When playing to together there as graceful as two butterfly's dancing in the wind :eek: Until they land then there like king king and you can feel there thunder :d

+1

d_m1010

03-27-10, 05:30 PM

There he is! Are you still enjoying your duals? Forgive me if you gave an answer previously, but how big is your room?

My room is 12x12x7, or roughly 1500 cf. These things are absolutely ridiculous. They are flat and extremely destructive. They are the size of a beer fridge and weigh 127 lbs. It's hard to describe, but they are world destroyers. Perhaps if I had a huge room I'd consider Ultras, but as of now, my home and it's foundation couldn't take it.

d_m1010

03-27-10, 05:33 PM

Now, I changed the speaker size to small and (while phase is at 12 o'clock) I turned the dB to +12. Is this going to hurt my little PB 12?

:)

That may be dangerous. Take it easy and increase the subs gain and AVR trim incrementally to be safe. You might want an spl meter.

Khakimon

03-27-10, 05:42 PM

d_m1010

03-27-10, 05:44 PM

Khakimon

03-27-10, 05:51 PM

I'm assuming that you know that the Plus has a 16hz tune if desired.

Why yes, but your output will be so low it is not worth it, unless you have like four....oh that is right you have two.
But even then the ULTRA has a 10hz mode!:eek:
WOW I could get, like 8hz at 40db1 WOW.
That would be like your 14hz at 40db.

Seriously, the PLUS is nice, remember I loved my P2B/PLUS(Dual 12.1 in drivers with 900watts), but the Ultra is better....:p Especially way, way down low...

Am I the only one here that listens to sub 15hz material?

TheFactor

03-27-10, 05:52 PM

You must try some sub 15hz stuff. Your plus will barely make a shudder, but then the "real" King Kong will stand up (insert UTLRA) and below 18hz it shall raise it's glorious head, and all shall be felt!:eek:

On a side note the butterfly dancing is so zen like... very relaxing image...:)

Edit: And dual ULTRA probably would be alittle to much for you guys. Anything under 18hz at high db is alittle scary...:p

LOL I guess I was trying to say there like synchronized swimmers :D Ok i'll stop there these imgaes im creating are killing me .

TheFactor

03-27-10, 05:53 PM

I have a collection of subsonic bass movies and the plus does just find :p :D

d_m1010

03-27-10, 05:53 PM

Am I the only one here that listens to sub 15hz material?

Yup, you're alone. All alone.

Khakimon

03-27-10, 06:04 PM

Yup, you're alone. All alone.

Yes I feel it. The loneliness...umm...
the sub 15hz stuff I mean...:p

d_m1010

03-27-10, 06:07 PM

the sub 15hz stuff I mean...:p

With my room gain, the Pluses do just fine thank you.

Khakimon

03-27-10, 06:11 PM

With my room gain, the Pluses do just fine thank you.

Well now, with my room gain my ULTRA, all by its lil' lonesome, does double super fine...;)

d_m1010

03-27-10, 06:31 PM

Khakimon

03-27-10, 06:40 PM

Well Ed Mullen is the designer and he says (as I've said multiple times), he'd rather have dual Pluses than one Ultra.

Yes but Ed forgot to tell you that recomendation is for the "BASS" impaired.:p

Nickff

03-27-10, 07:21 PM

So I hooked up the Pb12-Plus to Denon 1610 and Energy RC-10 left and right.

I am only going to use left and right. No center nor surrounds. When I did the Audyssey, it made the bookshelves "large" and made the subwoofer on the receiver -10dB. Of course I cannot hear any bass. I feel like this Audyssey thing is useless. I had done another one with 5.1 speakers and again I couldnt hear any LFE.

Now, I changed the speaker size to small and (while phase is at 12 o'clock) I turned the dB to +12. Is this going to hurt my little PB 12? Also is this normal?

My house has 10 foot ceilings with 10 x 20 walls.

Thanks in advance.:)

Don't give up on Audyssey until you have followed their directions as well as possible. It always sets my fronts to LARGE, but it does no harm whatsoever to set them to SMALL yourself, change the crossover freq. for each speaker, and/or adjust the channel levels to your liking after running Audyssey. Remember, Audyssey is doing much more than those previously mentioned items.

Have you read this? --> http://batpigworld.com/

Or this? --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895#post14456895

Or this? --> http://www.audyssey.com/technology/faq.html

I am quite happy with the results Audyssey gives me. However, I will purchase an SPL meter this summer to check the channel levels and I am considered having the gentleman that ISFed my 141fd come back and calibrate my 5.1 system. I am curious to see what (if any) improvement can be had.

maxht

03-27-10, 08:14 PM

Khakimon

03-27-10, 08:15 PM

Don't give up on Audyssey until you have followed their directions as well as possible. It always sets my fronts to LARGE, but it does no harm whatsoever to set them to SMALL yourself, change the crossover freq. for each speaker, and/or adjust the channel levels to your liking after running Audyssey. Remember, Audyssey is doing much more than those previously mentioned items.

Have you read this? --> http://batpigworld.com/

Or this? --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895#post14456895

Or this? --> http://www.audyssey.com/technology/faq.html

I am quite happy with the results Audyssey gives me. However, I will purchase an SPL meter this summer to check the channel levels and I am considered having the gentleman that ISFed my 141fd come back and calibrate my 5.1 system. I am curious to see what (if any) improvement can be had.

Aside for the sub for me, the Audyssey setup was quite nice. I went back and added alittle here and there, but overall it works pretty good. Seems alot of people like their sub hotter then audyssey sets it at.

Khakimon

03-27-10, 08:18 PM

How many position that you took for the Audyssey?

If there is really no LFE to be heard, I am guessing that you are sitting in a null area. Try to move your seat or re-position the sub (try sub-crawl).

Care to share why you set the phase at 12 o' clock? Yes, you are running the PB12-Plus too hot assuming that you changed from-10dB to +12dB. You might over driven your Plus.

I have my phase at 10 oclock or so....
And he definity is push that sub to hard for what he is getting. He should throw up a drawing of his layout.

maxht

03-27-10, 08:26 PM

Khakimon

03-27-10, 08:41 PM

ozer19

03-27-10, 10:22 PM

I have my phase at 10 oclock or so....
And he definity is push that sub to hard for what he is getting. He should throw up a drawing of his layout.

I am guessing that his sub is in front. I noticed that he has a bad room (acoustically) to start with. 10' x 20' x 10'. Yes, a layout would be better for us to help him out.

Thank you all for replying. I will get you a layout of the place tomorrow. I sure dont want to run the sub too hot and ruin something. But I have this fantastic sub and I would like to hear some LFE.

d_m1010

03-28-10, 06:17 AM

d_m1010

03-28-10, 07:13 AM

I was looking at he SVS graph that they say is only representative. And I can not help but wonder how one ULTRA would stand up to two PLUSes. I am mostly concerned with the under 18hz stuff. I know one PLUS would not come close. But it looks like you have to spend 700.00 more to come close to making up the gap between the single ULTRA and the single PLUS. Even with the 16hz mode it would take two just to come close in terms of output. And still the Ultra does indeed go lower with more spl.
I would love to be able to a same room test.

Here you go Khaki, the PB12 Plus won subwoofer of the year from Sound & Vision, not the Ultra:

The PB-12 Plus ($1,149) delivers punch, power, and subtlety that only the very finest and most expensive subwoofers can equal, and we’d be hardpressed to cite a sub that can clearly surpass it. While able to reproduce the subtlest nuances of bass lines, kick-drum hits, and movie sound effects, it has so much muscle it can practically knock you back into your couch.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/3291/2009-editors-choice-awards-audio-products-cont-page4.html

ozer19

03-28-10, 07:53 AM

I have my phase at 10 oclock or so....
And he definity is push that sub to hard for what he is getting. He should throw up a drawing of his layout.

I am guessing that his sub is in front. I noticed that he has a bad room (acoustically) to start with. 10' x 20' x 10'. Yes, a layout would be better for us to help him out.

Here is the floor plan.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3637/floorplan.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/i/floorplan.jpg/)

The Living Room is 14 x 24 with 10 foot ceilings. But as you see it opens to kitchen and the hallway. Below and left of that round column is floor to ceiling windows. I dont that changes anything.

ozer19

03-28-10, 08:06 AM

How many position that you took for the Audyssey?

If there is really no LFE to be heard, I am guessing that you are sitting in a null area. Try to move your seat or re-position the sub (try sub-crawl).

Care to share why you set the phase at 12 o' clock? Yes, you are running the PB12-Plus too hot assuming that you changed from-10dB to +12dB. You might over driven your Plus.

I did 6 positions of Audyssey as recommended. After reading you guys, I changed the dB of the SUB from +12 to +6. Increased the phase to 1 o'clock.

Weird but I started hearing some LFE. :cool:

Nickff

03-28-10, 10:20 AM

I did 6 positions of Audyssey as recommended. After reading you guys, I changed the dB of the SUB from +12 to +6. Increased the phase to 1 o'clock.

Weird but I started hearing some LFE. :cool:

Did you follow the directions in the links I posted above?

Place mic on tripod (or something similar) with nothing behind it at listening position 1, make sure all background noise is gone (AC, furnace, dehumidifiers, etc), set settings on sub to recommended positions, run set-up, move the mic 2ft right, rerun, move mic 2ft left of pos. 1, rerun, etc.?

ozer19

03-28-10, 10:26 AM

Did you follow the directions in the links I posted above?

Place mic on tripod (or something similar) with nothing behind it at listening position 1, make sure all background noise is gone (AC, furnace, dehumidifiers, etc), set settings on sub to recommended positions, run set-up, move the mic 2ft right, rerun, move mic 2ft left of pos. 1, rerun, etc.?

Yes, I followed it pretty good. I made sure to shut off everything to it is completely silent. There was nothing behind the position 1, or even other as well. Currently the sub is at +6 dB and the gain is 1 o'clock. I set my speakers to SMALL. Speakers are at 0 dB both.

Khakimon

03-28-10, 02:19 PM

Here is the floor plan.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3637/floorplan.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/i/floorplan.jpg/)

The Living Room is 14 x 24 with 10 foot ceilings. But as you see it opens to kitchen and the hallway. Below and left of that round column is floor to ceiling windows. I dont that changes anything.

I would relocate the sub to the opposite corner. You "will" get better sound in this location. Much more perceived volume.

maxht

03-29-10, 03:56 AM

Yes, relocate would be ideal. There is a long walkway in Northeast of the area which might have affected the whole acoustic. Can you try to put it at the other corner near the kitchen? You need to experiment with different location. You could very well sitting in a null area.

TheFactor

03-29-10, 07:59 AM

Do a bass crawl !

pepar

03-29-10, 08:42 AM

Yes, I followed it pretty good. I made sure to shut off everything to it is completely silent. There was nothing behind the position 1, or even other as well. Currently the sub is at +6 dB and the gain is 1 o'clock. I set my speakers to SMALL. Speakers are at 0 dB both.
I know that many of us have to work with the hand we are dealt, and I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, .. but :) as long as the couch (read: your head) is against the wall, you may never have good bass.

My suggestion would be this: :o

http://www.peparsplace.com/storage/floorplan.jpg

hardax

03-29-10, 11:53 AM

I have a SVS PC12-PLUS in my basement home theater. Carpet over concrete floors.

My windows vibrate something awful during heavy bass scenes and I have always chalked it up to cheap window installation etc. and something I would have to live with.

Are you telling me that if I isolate my sub using a Gramma or equivalent that it will help with my window rattles?

The same amount of bass is still entering the room regardless of the sub being up on a pedestal or not so how would this help with rattles?

Thanks for any input.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=644330

If you have vibrations in the floor, windows, doors, etc., a Gramma will help eliminate them. In my case, it help calm the rattling doors and windows in my 50 year old house.

BTW - I have 2 grammas under my sub, one was not big enough.

SharpOne

03-29-10, 11:55 AM

Well now, with my room gain my ULTRA, all by its lil' lonesome, does double super fine...;)

Well Ed Mullen is the designer and he says (as I've said multiple times), he'd rather have dual Pluses than one Ultra.

lol...I'm torn!:o Part of me says if a single Ultra will fit the bill, just get that and save the money over dual Pluses. On the other hand I have limited flexibility on where to put the Ultra or Pluses for that matter. They or it has to go up front with the mains. That's where I figure having the duals would help even out response, assuming I need to. In addition, having the extra headroom would be nice.

I should have tried to take some measurements throughout the room when I had my Sentinel, or paid closer attention to its sound around different parts of the room.

lol, either way moving 2 pluses or a single ultra around is sure to cause me some lower back pain. I had a hell of a time getting that Sentinel back in the box, and it was only 98 lbs. The plus weighs 127 lbs and the Ultra weighs 154 lbs.:eek:

pepar

03-29-10, 11:58 AM

I have a SVS PC12-PLUS in my basement home theater. Carpet over concrete floors.

My windows vibrate something awful during heavy bass scenes and I have always chalked it up to cheap window installation etc. and something I would have to live with.

Are you telling me that if I isolate my sub using a Gramma or equivalent that it will help with my window rattles?

The same amount of bass is still entering the room regardless of the sub being up on a pedestal or not so how would this help with rattles?

Thanks for any input.
This will only reduce/eliminate vibrations from sound that is transmitted to the "vibrator" mechanically. There will still be bass in the air - otherwise, it wouldn't be heard :D - and something vibrating from that will still vibrate.

Jeff

SharpOne

03-29-10, 12:01 PM

dewd

03-29-10, 01:34 PM

I have a SVS PC12-PLUS in my basement home theater. Carpet over concrete floors.

My windows vibrate something awful during heavy bass scenes and I have always chalked it up to cheap window installation etc. and something I would have to live with.

Are you telling me that if I isolate my sub using a Gramma or equivalent that it will help with my window rattles?

The same amount of bass is still entering the room regardless of the sub being up on a pedestal or not so how would this help with rattles?

Thanks for any input.

In your case it is unlikely that it will help. Mine helped because the noise was coming from my wood floors and walls. Being that your sub is on concrete, I would guess it is the sound causing the windows to rattle, not the vibrations.

ozer19

03-29-10, 06:58 PM

I know that many of us have to work with the hand we are dealt, and I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, .. but :) as long as the couch (read: your head) is against the wall, you may never have good bass.

My suggestion would be this: :o

http://www.peparsplace.com/storage/floorplan.jpg

So you are basically telling me to block the entrance to the balcony and the whole view ? :D

I have relocated to a few places. I now left it where it is. Gain is at 12 o clock and on the AVR the sub is at +6 dB. There is no rattling because the building is 2 years old. But at least I have no neighbors on my floor, below or above me. So It is ON!!!!

I simply increase the gain to feel the bass in my lungs a little :D

What is the maximum levels I can reach without hurting the sub? Or would this depend on the media being played?

d_m1010

03-29-10, 07:14 PM

What is the maximum levels I can reach without hurting the sub? Or would this depend on the media being played?

Ed has told me that as long as you don't hear any audible strain from the sub, you should be fine. Here is a quote from one of his emails:

"...when it starts to audibly “chuff” (a turbulent huffing/puffing/chuffing sound) that is a sign the subwoofer is being overdriven."

Hope this helps.

ozer19

03-29-10, 07:15 PM

Ed has told me that as long as you don't hear any audible strain from the sub, you should be fine. Here is a quote from one of his emails:

"...when it starts to audibly “chuff” (a turbulent huffing/puffing/chuffing sound) that is a sign the subwoofer is being overdriven."

Hope this helps.

Thank you.

TheFactor

03-29-10, 07:21 PM

TheFactor,

Is the bold section above based on your comparisons of running them separately? I know you mentioned you were going to try and do that. If so, can you elaborate a bit more on what you listened to during this comparison?

On a separate note, can someone tell me how long the power cord is for the Ultra and the Plus?

Thanks in advance.

I beleive there 6ft long but you can always get a longer universal one . Yes I did do a comparison but it wasnt very long just a couple of scenes from WOW and it had no problem it was hitting very hard not as hard as the Ultra but bass you can feel. I dont think if it wasnt a side by side comparison it would be harder to tell the difference. Like I said I love my Ultra but I think I would of been just as happy with a plus or two ;) . "EDIT" It has a 8ft cord

jac86

03-29-10, 09:14 PM

I want to start experimenting with the PEQ on my PC12-Plus. What deficiencies would call for what changes on the PEQ? I currently have it all at 0.

bump...

SharpOne

03-29-10, 10:20 PM

I beleive there 6ft long but you can always get a longer universal one . Yes I did do a comparison but it wasnt very long just a couple of scenes from WOW and it had no problem it was hitting very hard not as hard as the Ultra but bass you can feel. I dont think if it wasnt a side by side comparison it would be harder to tell the difference. Like I said I love my Ultra but I think I would of been just as happy with a plus or two ;) . "EDIT" It has a 8ft cord

Thanks!

TheFactor

03-29-10, 10:28 PM

Thanks!

Your very welcome and keep in mind as you know subs will sound different in different areas so get what you think will be best for you and your HT and just use my op and others as a tool to help you out. If you have any doubts get the Ultra or you'll always wonder.Again these are just my oppinions and everyones different but im giving you my honest view of my thoughts .

SharpOne

03-30-10, 06:01 PM

Your very welcome and keep in mind as you know subs will sound different in different areas so get what you think will be best for you and your HT and just use my op and others as a tool to help you out. If you have any doubts get the Ultra or you'll always wonder.Again these are just my oppinions and everyones different but im giving you my honest view of my thoughts .

lol, it's funny but every time I think I've made up my mind I have second thoughts. Part of me is saying this isn't that big of a deal and 2 Pluses might be excessive, or even a single Ultra might be excessive and I shouldn't spend so much money. But then the other part of me is thinking how awesome it will sound.:) Now I'm almost considering only getting a single Plus now, and getting another one down the line if I still want it.

Decisions...decisions! I think I'm spending faaaaar too much time thinking about this.:confused:

Khakimon

03-30-10, 06:11 PM

lol, it's funny but every time I think I've made up my mind I have second thoughts. Part of me is saying this isn't that big of a deal and 2 Pluses might be excessive, or even a single Ultra might be excessive and I shouldn't spend so much money. But then the other part of me is thinking how awesome it will sound.:) Now I'm almost considering only getting a single Plus now, and getting another one down the line if I still want it.

Decisions...decisions! I think I'm spending faaaaar too much time thinking about this.:confused:

I am telling you two ULTRAS. Sell the kids....;)

d_m1010

03-30-10, 06:21 PM

I am telling you two ULTRAS. Sell the kids....;)

meh, I'm just going to DIY my next subs. 2 Tuba HTs. I have the plans and two Buttkicker 1100 watt amps, now I only need some time, which I'm always short on...

Khakimon

03-30-10, 06:23 PM

Did Graham put you up to this??:p

d_m1010

03-30-10, 06:26 PM

Did Graham put you up to this??:p

No sir, I've been wanting to diy some subs for quite some time and the time is getting nearer. The Tubas have crazy spl as they are a horn design and look like they'd be fun to make. I purchased the plans and have been studying them. I have the amps so ow I need the plywood, the hardware, and the Dayton drivers and I'm ready to go.

TheFactor

03-30-10, 07:29 PM

Rugburn76

03-30-10, 08:57 PM

My new PB12-NSD will be here tomorrow.:D Along with a new Onkyo 707. This should be a major upgrade for me, since I am going from a $300 Sony HTIB bought from Walmart 5 yrs ago. I am still stuck with the Sony speakers for another month or 2 though.:( My plans are to go with dual PB12's later down the road, should be good enough for a 14x15x8 room, I hope.

After Thursday I will have 7 days off from work to play with my new system.:D

d_m1010

03-30-10, 09:04 PM

My new PB12-NSD will be here tomorrow.:D Along with a new Onkyo 707. This should be a major upgrade for me, since I am going from a $300 Sony HTIB bought from Walmart 5 yrs ago.D

Oh my are you in for a treat. :)

Rugburn76

03-30-10, 09:10 PM

Yes, I hope so!

TheFactor

03-30-10, 09:25 PM

Khakimon

03-31-10, 04:33 PM

d_m1010

03-31-10, 05:06 PM

Just remember to fire the new sub into the wall. What a difference this makes.
It is like a free bass plate.:)

Does this really make a large difference? I'm considering it, but they each weigh 127 lbs so it's no easy chore.

Khakimon

03-31-10, 05:14 PM

Yes. IN my room it was a 3db gain 12hz and under and a 6db gain 15hz and up. My old P2B/PLUS had down firing dual 12.1 drivers and 3-3in rear firing ports. It was nowhere near as tight and accurate as the ultra, but firing down and ports to the walls makes a world of difference. So I thought the ULTRA can not really fire down, but it can fire into the wall.
Your PLUSes should perform similarly.:)

Just not as loud way down low...:p

Seriously, this was my main hesitation going into my upgrade. Front firing seemed wrong after owning my first SVS. And I was right.

Khakimon

03-31-10, 05:42 PM

Here you go Khaki, the PB12 Plus won subwoofer of the year from Sound & Vision, not the Ultra:

The PB-12 Plus ($1,149) delivers punch, power, and subtlety that only the very finest and most expensive subwoofers can equal, and we’d be hard pressed to cite a sub that can clearly surpass it. While able to reproduce the subtlest nuances of bass lines, kick-drum hits, and movie sound effects, it has so much muscle it can practically knock you back into your couch.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/3291/2009-editors-choice-awards-audio-products-cont-page4.html

You snuck that in there. I completely missed that jab. Nicely done. But only lemmings rely on or quote industry sayers.

Like TheFactor stated, he did a side by side comparo and..."Yes I did do a comparison but it wasn't very long just a couple of scenes from WOW and it had no problem it was hitting very hard not as hard as the Ultra but bass you can feel."

And when he does more testing he will find that after 80hz or so the contest is over. :p
And as the hz drop toward the floor matters only get worse. :eek:

"Harder" by the way means lower and meaner.... :cool:

Also when you get a chance try the song So Hard by Rihanna and Young Jeeze.:D
Let me know what you think.;)

I don't need no stinking review to tell me I GOT A BAD TO THE BONE SUBWOOFER.....

d_m1010

03-31-10, 05:44 PM

d_m1010

03-31-10, 05:54 PM

Also when you get a chance try the song So Hard by Rihanna and Young Jeeze.:D
Let me know what you think.;)
.

Accch we've got to talk about your taste in music first lol.

Khakimon

03-31-10, 05:59 PM

Ok here how about these; BLUE BERRY YUM YUM, How Low Can You Go, Smile(Crystal Method) and Pure Silicon.
Better?:D

d_m1010

03-31-10, 05:59 PM

I don't need no stinking review to tell me I GOT A BAD TO THE BONE SUBWOOFER.....

The Plus, not the Ultra, won sub of the year. :p

d_m1010

03-31-10, 06:00 PM

Ok here how about these; BLUE BERRY YUM YUM, How Low Can You Go, Smile(Crystal Method) and Pure Silicon.
Better?:D

Much, I was getting worried about you lol.

Khakimon

03-31-10, 06:13 PM

The Plus, not the Ultra, won sub of the year. :p

Yes it did. Not bad for a "mid range" SVS sub.;)

Let me know when you spin them. I am curious to hear what you think.
Maybe TheFactor will try it also.

TheFactor

03-31-10, 08:57 PM

Yes it did. Not bad for a "mid range" SVS sub.;)

Let me know when you spin them. I am curious to hear what you think.
Maybe TheFactor will try it also.

Spin what ? You guys have been very busy since i've been gone :p :D

Rugburn76

03-31-10, 10:15 PM

OK, I got my PB12 and must say this thing is bigger than I imagined! Not that thats a bad thing. It arrived via UPS and the box was in great condition. I ordered it Monday morning and recieved it Wednesday morning.

First impression: I havent really got to play with it much and just kinda threw everything together just to see what it sounds like. Was only able to put in 1 location due to length of cable and my new cables havent arrived from monoprice yet. Also, I am still using my old Sony reciever as my my Onkyo 707 will not arrive until 2mrw. Now with that said, I watched a few scenes from The Pacific and the low bass is quite a bit better, but not quite what I expected. Seems to be lacking in mid-bass. But I think it is most likely due to my reciever and settings on the sub

My sub is set with the following; Crossover: Enabled, On/Auto switch set to ON, Crossover set at 80hz, Phase is Halfway, Gain is at 1 oclock position.

My reciever has very little settings. No crossover settings, sub level is +5. One thing that has me curious is that the sub has 2 inputs, L/R, and my reciever only has 1 output. I have it plugged into the R input on the sub.

Well thats all I have for now. Now goin to search through threads about setting up my sub. I will report back later with my progress, and any suggestions would be great. Sorry for the ignorance, but look forward to learning how to do this stuff!

P.S. The Pacific was in standard def I had recorded on my DVR, Thought it was HD but recorded the wrong channel. Not sure if that makes a diff in sound quality or not. Will get more appropriate testing material 2mrw.

TheFactor

03-31-10, 10:20 PM

Why do you have your Phase set at halfway ? It should be set a zero at least to start out . Do you have a spl meter ? If so slowly turn your phase up and see if your db rise and just adjust it to get the highest reading. Your phase setting could very well be your problem im thinking although theres other things to consider try that first and let us know what happens.

Rugburn76

04-01-10, 05:51 AM

d_m1010

04-01-10, 07:12 AM

Ohhhhh Khaki, you are actually right for a change;). Unlike your other ramblings (cough Ultra), the firing the Pluses into the corner was a fabulously awesome sick idea! Wow the bass is sooo much more forceful. I had to turn the gain down after the switch! Thanks Khaki, you may be horribly mistaken about all the other gobbily gook you rant about, but this time, you are a prince. Grazie +1

TheFactor

04-01-10, 07:53 AM

Phase is at halfway only because I did not know where to set it. Just tried that as a starting point. I do not have a SPL meter yet, but is on the top of my list. I am going to hook it up to my Onkyo 707 this evening after I get home from work and go from there.

Thats cool when you hook up your 707 you might want to try starting with your phase at zero thats normaly the common practice as a starting point and and im sure it states that in your de-struction manual ;) Regardless enjoy your new toys .