Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. [Text View] - Page 2

Kipp Jones

10-23-06, 11:07 PM

My pants are wet now!

Im going to order when my funds are ready!

I'm going to order a PB-10 from sonicboomaudio, plus the Avia/RS SPL meter, would of went with the 25-31PCi .......but its to much.

I can get the PB-10 plus the the Avia/RS bundle for the same as the 25-31 :confused:

You may want to chat with AVS member scottadowns as he was the PB10 King. He had two of them and knows the PB10 inside and out. He can probably share some tweaking tips with you.

FR0ST

10-24-06, 06:21 AM

antman27

10-24-06, 06:40 AM

I will be able to tell you in a few days how the SB12 Plus blends with my paradigm 40's V.3

FR0ST

10-24-06, 07:11 AM

Looking forward to that
What made u decide to get SB-12plus over Pb-12 plus
Do u think seald sub SB-12plus is superior to vented

rockemsockem

10-24-06, 08:04 AM

The SVS SB12 is a compromise for people that want an SVS product but can't have a sub as large as their traditional subs.

If you have an option, get the larger sub, the PB12+, hands down. Or even a PB10-isd if you don't need insane levels. There is no comparing the SB12 and the traditional SVS offerings.

rockemsockem

10-24-06, 08:08 AM

My pants are wet now!

Im going to order when my funds are ready!

I'm going to order a PB-10 from sonicboomaudio, plus the Avia/RS SPL meter, would of went with the 25-31PCi .......but its to much.

I can get the PB-10 plus the the Avia/RS bundle for the same as the 25-31 :confused:

What are you doing!? :confused:

Get the 25-31Pci, and see if you can borrow a RS meter, or maybe santa will bring you one for Christmas. But don't skip out on a better sub just to get a calibration disc.

You can use the tones in your receiver to set up your sub. And you can download the proper test tones from Marchand electronics to adjust the phase.

DrPainMD

10-24-06, 08:32 AM

What are you doing!? :confused:

Get the 25-31Pci, and see if you can borrow a RS meter, or maybe santa will bring you one for Christmas. But don't skip out on a better sub just to get a calibration disc.

You can use the tones in your receiver to set up your sub. And you can download the proper test tones from Marchand electronics to adjust the phase.

This purchase IS what Santa is bringing me this Christmas and the one after and the one after that....
Can't borrow a RS meter. Don't know anyone with one.
How do you go about doing the phase adjust?
Why is the 25-31PCi better than the PB-10 ?

jpomp

10-24-06, 09:27 AM

mojomike

10-24-06, 10:15 AM

hi everybody

I'm looking at SVS SB12-Plus and PB12-plus with one would be better for music/HT
I like the looks of SB12-Plus since a lot of u are happy with it
In two weeks I'm going down to Sonicboom Audio to demo few of SVS subs.
I'm interested in people opinions and those two subs, wright now i'm using Paradigm PS-1000 so i need to upgrate my sub, it just doesn't work well with Paradigm Studio 60v.3

Thank you

Chris

I am running a pair of SB12's in stereo configuration. They sound excellent particularly with music. I still run my LFE through my large custom ported box for HT.

Whether the SB12's can do justice to HT on their own would be dependent on the room size. For a fairly large room, I would suggest two SB12's.

They are beautiful little well constructed boxes that operate very nicely within their own size limitations.

rockemsockem

10-24-06, 10:32 AM

This purchase IS what Santa is bringing me this Christmas and the one after and the one after that....
Can't borrow a RS meter. Don't know anyone with one.
How do you go about doing the phase adjust?
Why is the 25-31PCi better than the PB-10 ?

Here is one of my emails from Stephen @ SVS:
"For a general overview, the two subs will be quite similar to eachother when running at moderate levels. The PB-10 will extend a bit lower, but just not as loud overall.
The 25-31PCi has about 50% more potential than the PB10, but like I said, when running at regular and “sane” levels, they’ll both be pretty similar."

There are several different ways to adjust the phase. The simplest way IMO is to download a test tone that is 1 octave lower than your xover from Marchand Electronics and burn it onto a CD. On octave below 100 hz would be 50 hz, and 80 hz would be 40 hz. My xover is fixed at 90 hz, so I just used the 40 hz tone.

Play the test tone, but not too long, because you don't want to damage your sub, so try to get this done in under a couple of minutes. It shouldn't take you more than one minute. Have someone ready to adjust the phase dial while you sit in the sweet spot with the SPL meter. I would calibrate at either 75 or 85 hdBbut 85 dBin my room is too loud, so I calibrate @ 75 db. Basically, you want the volume level to be the same at the bottom and top of the 40 hz tone sweep. i.e you don't want the needle jumping up and down. You want the needle to remain in the same position as the tone pulsates. So have the person turn the phase dial until the needle stays still. It will move a bit, but you at least want to get it within .5 db.

It isn't a perfect method, but it's better than nothing.

rockemsockem

10-24-06, 10:36 AM

25'x15'x7' finished drywalled basement, carpet, acoustic suspended ceiling and either Ascends or SVS complete package, with Yamaha reciever.

Will I be disappointed if I get the PB12–NSD/2 instead of the PB12–Plus/2?

My setup will be mostly DVD's and Comcast HDTV.

Thanks for your advice...

SVS's customer service is the best, email them or call them, and they will be able to answer that question better than any of us could.

antman27

10-24-06, 10:37 AM

Looking forward to that
What made u decide to get SB-12plus over Pb-12 plus
Do u think seald sub SB-12plus is superior to vented

Well it did come down to looks and size my old sub was even smaller 10x14x14 so I was looking for a small footprint & the rosenut looks great also
My room is on the larger size 13x 25 and opens into a 10x 10 room so I hope this sub will work well for me
My old PDR8 was FINE for HT (it was an 8"ported) but major lack for music.
I am mor concerned with better lows for music & that is another reason I chose the sealed sub.I do hope this sub will be good enough for HT also COME On its got to be better than a PDR8 RIGHT LOL

Profiled

10-24-06, 12:12 PM

I ordered a PB10-NSD yesterday for my birthday, so I'm excited about that.

How long do things usually take to be shipped from SVS?

Also I have a Panasonic XR-57 and a pair of Polk Audio RTi6's (so it will be a 2.1 system), anyone have any specific advice on how to set things up (i.e. set speakers to small, etc?) on the reciever?

dubphotek

10-24-06, 12:31 PM

How long do things usually take to be shipped from SVS?

I received my sub in five business days. Ordered on Sunday, shipped Monday, received Friday. That was the longest five days of my life.

DrPainMD

10-24-06, 01:09 PM

Here is one of my emails from Stephen @ SVS:
"For a general overview, the two subs will be quite similar to eachother when running at moderate levels. The PB-10 will extend a bit lower, but just not as loud overall.
The 25-31PCi has about 50% more potential than the PB10, but like I said, when running at regular and “sane” levels, they’ll both be pretty similar."

There are several different ways to adjust the phase. The simplest way IMO is to download a test tone that is 1 octave lower than your xover from Marchand Electronics and burn it onto a CD. On octave below 100 hz would be 50 hz, and 80 hz would be 40 hz. My xover is fixed at 90 hz, so I just used the 40 hz tone.

Play the test tone, but not too long, because you don't want to damage your sub, so try to get this done in under a couple of minutes. It shouldn't take you more than one minute. Have someone ready to adjust the phase dial while you sit in the sweet spot with the SPL meter. I would calibrate at either 75 or 85 hdBbut 85 dBin my room is too loud, so I calibrate @ 75 db. Basically, you want the volume level to be the same at the bottom and top of the 40 hz tone sweep. i.e you don't want the needle jumping up and down. You want the needle to remain in the same position as the tone pulsates. So have the person turn the phase dial until the needle stays still. It will move a bit, but you at least want to get it within .5 db.

It isn't a perfect method, but it's better than nothing.

I don't have a cd-burner.
Won't have a spl meter if I get the 25-31.
Damned if I do and damned if I don't...

cneely8

10-24-06, 01:27 PM

>Won't have a spl meter if I get the 25-31.
Damned if I do and damned if I don't... <

Get the bigger sub and wait for the SPL meter. It's easier to save for the meter than save for 1/5th more sub later!

antman27

10-24-06, 06:35 PM

How long do things usually take to be shipped from SVS?

I ordered mine this Past saturday Just checked the tracking
Scheduled Delivery: 10/25/2006
Can you say SICK DAY Tomrrow :D :D :D

Raindog314159

10-24-06, 06:47 PM

Just an update, here's the 20-39PCi in it's new home...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/raindog314159/Temp/DSC_3854-01.jpg

Ron Temple

10-24-06, 07:50 PM

Just an update, here's the 20-39PCi in it's new home...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/raindog314159/Temp/DSC_3854-01.jpgHiding it from the wife I see. :D

antman27

10-24-06, 08:02 PM

mojomike

10-24-06, 08:37 PM

Ok so when I get me SB12 Plus tomorrow how should I set it up ?
I use a Denon 3805 AVR with Paradigm 40s
So set the main speakers to small, crossover @80 HZ LFE & MAIN
What about the settings on the SB12 Looks like about 7 knobs on there
Phase ?
Room comp I think would set to large 13x25 room
Auto crossover ??
What else does it have ?
Thanks ~

Start with 80 Hz and see how that works out for you.

Turn the crossover on the SVS off. ("Disabled")

Start with the phase at 0, then turn it slowly until you reach a point where the bass sounds the loudest.

It's hard to say what the best setting is for Room Comp. It will vary depending on the room and the placement. Test tones and a db meter would help.

The "Auto" switch is for Auto on/off.

There is a single parametric equalizer which can be used to control a significant peak which you might have in your room. Again, a db meter would be helpful. Otherwise, disable the eq by setting the "level" to "min".

There's gain, of course. Again, test tones and a meter are best, but it can be adjusted by ear to what sounds natural to you. Listen to some music that you are very familiar with and season to taste.

I actually have the owners manual in .pdf form if you want it. PM me your e-mail address and I'll send it to you.

Nick250

10-24-06, 11:28 PM

Ok so when I get me SB12 Plus tomorrow how should I set it up ?
I use a Denon 3805 AVR with Paradigm 40s
So set the main speakers to small, crossover @80 HZ LFE & MAIN
What about the settings on the SB12 Looks like about 7 knobs on there
Phase ?
Room comp I think would set to large 13x25 room
Auto crossover ??
What else does it have ?
Thanks ~

I think you got the basics down ok.

Disable the sub crossover, room comp large, the LFE & MAIN don't do anything when your speakers are set to small nothing to worry about there, LFE crossover at 120Hz. I would start with the volume control at 10 o'clock. Then there is the location issue. With a room that large I would place it near field. I have my Rocket UFW-10 about 5 feet from the sweet spot and it works great in a ~3000 CF room. Your SB12 will be another level above my Rocket of course.

After the PDR-8 you will be amazed by the clean, clear and dynamic musical qualities of your new sub.

Nick

antman27

10-25-06, 12:04 AM

You think I should set the crossover in the denon to 120 Hz seems high
Oh yea by the way I am one of them foks that like alot of bass
My ipod headphones are the Ultimate Ears super.fi 5EB YES The EB stands for EXTRA BASS and I put the Ipod on Bass Boost
Huge bottom-end for funky bass-heads.
The super.fi 5EB have a massive bass kick that might perhaps be just a bit heavy for non-basshead listeners. The bass is definitely warm and VERY thumpy

petetherock

10-25-06, 04:25 AM

Hi

I am setting up a HT / Music system (70 / 30)

the room is 10 by 7 by 3 metres.

I am using a THX Marantz (SR 12) but I have not decided on my speakers yet, probably 3 X MA GS LCR for fronts and some Bronze rears.

I have an old REL Quake (will hook this up for music in stereo)

I look for tight base more than big boomy bass. But size of subs is not a problem.
I have no access to Cylinder subs.

Should I consider a pair of SB 12s or a single PB12+?

I am open to other suggestions and brands too.
Thanks
P

petetherock

10-25-06, 04:27 AM

billybob_jcv

10-25-06, 04:50 AM

Aren't the Hsu subs also available in Aus? SB12 is a sealed sub - that is a completely different experience to the PB12+. I thought the SB12 is intended for situations where size is an issue - if size is not an issue, I suspect SVS would recommend the PB12+ - but the best thing to do is ask SVS.

ransac

10-25-06, 05:51 AM

For your size room, a PB12+/2 is more in order. If you are willing to spend the price of 2 SB12s, then you can get a premium finish +/2. I know you have a different price structure than we have here, but they should be the same relative prices.

antman27

10-25-06, 06:41 AM

10/25/2006 5:38 A.M. OUT FOR DELIVERY
Guess who aint goin to work today
:) :) :cool: :p :p ;) ;) :D :D :)
My 3 year old just asked me Daddy why do you keep looking out the window

SbWillie

10-25-06, 07:58 AM

Hi

I have no access to Cylinder subs.

:confused: :confused:

mojomike

10-25-06, 08:31 AM

audiophile82

10-25-06, 09:06 AM

10/25/2006 5:38 A.M. OUT FOR DELIVERY
Guess who aint goin to work today
:) :) :cool: :p :p ;) ;) :D :D :)
My 3 year old just asked me Daddy why do you keep looking out the window

LOL

I hope you will post some pics and say what you think of it. I`m also looking to buy the same sub.

antman27

10-25-06, 10:33 AM

UPS man did not come yet Now I am getting Nervous that It wont blow my sox off
I hope he gets hear before the wife gets home from work so I can play with it LOL

mojomike

10-25-06, 11:10 AM

See that? Now you got us all waiting for your UPS guy! :p

antman27

10-25-06, 11:47 AM

See that? Now you got us all waiting for your UPS guy! :p
Tell me about it almost noon & he aint came around yet :mad:

DrPainMD

10-25-06, 12:12 PM

a watched kettle never boils...

ggunnell

10-25-06, 12:17 PM

Have you considered a DIY cylinder? They are not too hard to build. If you can get cylindrical tubes to Australia, freight would be a lot less...
Here's a DIY tube site:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040204144102/http://members.tripod.com/terryctheater/shivaphotoalbum/page12.html
and a couple tube sources:
http://www.psp-inc.com/psp-inc.com/public_html/Bascore%20Tubes.html
http://www.sonotube.com/products/round.html
And theres LOTS of help here on the DIY forum ... :)

Nick250

10-25-06, 01:09 PM

You think I should set the crossover in the denon to 120 Hz seems high

I think I was unclear in my suggestions. 80Hz is the best starting place for the "regular" crossover settings for all speakers and all speakers set to small as you mentioned in your post. My Denon 3806 has a separate LFE crossover setting as well as the "regular" crossover settings. I thought the 3805 had the separate LFE crossover setting too, maybe I am wrong on this. What I ment to convey was that if you do have the separate LFE crossover setting, it would usually be set at 120Hz. Sorry for the confusion.

Nick

ransac

10-25-06, 01:42 PM

I have the 3805 and it only has the one Xover setting. When I watch movies, I set all speakers to small and the Xover to 80. When I listen to music, I set the mains to large, the input to stereo, and the Xover to 120 and the sub to LFE+mains. I normally use stereo because I don't like the sound os the matrixed 5.1 or music remastered to 5.1. I have heard some 5.1 mastered DVDs that sound great in 5.1, but not the remastered stuff.

antman27

10-25-06, 04:31 PM

Yea for me its hooked up
So set the crossover & ran the auto set up on the denon & it seamed like there was not enough lows for me with all speakers and sub set at 0DB
so I gave the svs some more gain
I played with the denons crossover and cranked it way up to 200 and the sub came to LIFE
This is similar to my pdr problems
So I would say I still need tweaking & room placement is probly the best

rkphelps

10-25-06, 05:14 PM

I am putting together an inexpensive 2 Channel HI-FI system in my living room for my wife which means I have a whole set of new rules I have to follow. In my Theater room she didn’t care when I put in Paradigm 100’s,a 570 center,(2) 4’ tall waterheater size Subs from SVS, and all the other’s hanging on the walls to have a 7 channel system. In the living room everything needs to be small and pretty  which is ok because this is her space, so I’m looking at some compromises I think, but I can only go so far since I’ll be listening to the system also. While I knew what I wanted in the theater room I am not as knowledgeable when it comes to music, so I could use help on weather you can get bookshelves such as the Paradigm studio 20’s with a small Sub from SVS (only a 14” cube) to sound as good with music as a set of Studio 60’s Floor standers with no Sub. Option 2 would be studio 40’s ( which as a bass driver) with the same Sub If option 1 can’t cover all the mid range. Option 3 would be to convince the wife to go with the Studio 60’s Floorstanders with no Sub. Since I can’t here these setups in person I would welcome some comments.-Thanks Rob.

Question (short version): Can I get bookshelf speakers on stands with a Sub to sound as good as full range Floorstander Speakers for music?

Proposed 2 Channel Stereo System:

Living Room Size: 12’ x 20’
Her Music: Likes Michael Buble vocals, Non classical Piano, Pop, & Young Country
CD Player : NAD C-542
Receiver: Outlaw RR-2150 2 Channel with Bass Management (100watt per channel).

Note: I haven’t settled on using Paradigms but they are hi on my list as I will have to go with my wife to do the looks (small is good) vs. sound testing with what’s available locally.

Option 1
Paradigm Studio 20’s- 2-Driver, 2-way,7” midrange driver, 36hz low extension, 15”x8-1/4”x 12-3/4”
SVS SB-12plus Sub- 12” Bass Driver, 25hz low extension, only 14”x14”x15”

Option 2
Paradigm Studio 40’s- 3-Driver,2-1/2-way,7” midrange,7” Bass, 36hz low extension, 22”x8-1/4”x 12-3/4”
SVS SB-12plus Sub- 12” Bass Driver, 25hz low extension, only 14”x14”x15”

Option 3
Paradigm Studio 60’s- 3-Driver,2-1/2-way,7” midrange,7” Bass, 30hz low extension,40-1/2”x 8-1/4”x 17”
No Sub

mojomike

10-25-06, 05:21 PM

Either option with the sub will hit with more authority than the third..

antman27

10-25-06, 08:25 PM

I have set up 2 and FYI the 40's do not come close to 36Hz They roll off about 63 Hs I found out the hard way

Nick250

10-25-06, 11:46 PM

cneely8

10-26-06, 07:43 AM

>Crossover at 200Hz? Yikes! I think some setup basics are in order here Antman.

ditto.

antman27

10-26-06, 10:37 AM

ransac

10-26-06, 10:52 AM

It is me /my room/placement or what BUT when I set the sub properly crossover @ 80 Hz and all speakers to 0DB HT sounds fine & get plenty of rumble from the sub BUT when I switch over to stereo & listen to music I feel the need to turn the gain on the sub up
When set properly it sesms like a lack of lows
Any sugestions ?
More than likely, it is the same issue a lot of us have had. We are used to turning up the bass boost when we listen to music to enhance the low end. The music wasn't recorded with enhanced bass, so we do it during playback. Now that you are hearing bass the way it was put down, it seems ungratifying, so you boost it.

You might look for the bass boost setting on your AVR. Just turning that up might be easier than changing the Xover, sub gain, and whatever other settings you are tinkering with.

mojomike

10-26-06, 10:54 AM

It is me /my room/placement or what BUT when I set the sub properly crossover @ 80 Hz and all speakers to 0DB HT sounds fine & get plenty of rumble from the sub BUT when I switch over to stereo & listen to music I feel the need to turn the gain on the sub up
When set properly it sesms like a lack of lows
Any sugestions ?

Questions:

1. Have you disabled the crossover on the back of the sub? Make sure you have done that. Also turn the "MIN" "MAX" knob on the parametric contols to "MIN" unless you are sure that there is a particular peak in response that you have measured.

2. Why are you assuming that setting all speakers to 0 db is the proper setting? Unless all of the speakers including the sub are exactly the same efficiency in their particular location, setting them all to 0 is not likely to match their actual relative volume.

Do yourself a favor. Go to Radio Shack and invest in a SPL meter, typically about $45. Use test tones to properly balance out the system, then season the bass to your taste afterward.

antman27

10-26-06, 11:44 AM

Thanks mojomike
Yes the crossover is disabled
all of the PEQ is set to min
I do have a digital SPL but did not get a chance to use it
I ued the denon mic and ran the auto set up from my 3805 to calabrate all speakers to 0DB

cneely8

10-26-06, 12:14 PM

>I do have a digital SPL but did not get a chance to use it
I ued the denon mic and ran the auto set up from my 3805 to calabrate all speakers to 0DB<

Try your spl meter. I have the 3805, and it sets my speakers to different settings. -1, -2, +1.5, etc. If you ran auto-setup correctly and they all came out an even 0, I find that hard to believe if the unit is functioning properly and you ran it properly.

mojomike

10-26-06, 12:20 PM

Which Denon do you have? Some have "Personal Memory" buttons where you can set things like the type of surround, the input, and especially the various channel levels and sub level for a particular type of source. If you have a Denon with those, you can have one set of parameters for music and a different set for HT, and possibly a third that is different from the other two.

antman27

10-26-06, 01:00 PM

rockemsockem

10-26-06, 01:57 PM

antman27

10-26-06, 02:54 PM

I will use the SPL on saturday once the wife & baby are out of the house
But the denon 3805 auto set up should do a close enough job .To me when I tryed some music the sub needed to be cranked way up

rockemsockem

10-26-06, 03:10 PM

I will use the SPL on saturday once the wife & baby are out of the house
But the denon 3805 auto set up should do a close enough job .To me when I tryed some music the sub needed to be cranked way up

You may need to move the sub. Your current placement could be causing a room mode issue.

The best way to find out is place the sub on your couch on the sweet spot, play some music and turn the speakers off, and crawl around with the SPL meter. Wherever it maxes out, that is where your sub should go.

I know it sounds crude, but it works. If you I put my sub in my front corner or anywhere along my front wall, it wouldn't sound anywhere as good as it sounds now.

Kipp Jones

10-26-06, 03:11 PM

WolfsBane

10-26-06, 03:32 PM

I believe SVS recommends not using auto setup on your receiver.

They still do. Auto setups in most systems are getting a little better, but not to the point where I would consider them reliable enough. An AVIA disk and an SPL meter is still the way to go, IMO.

antman27

10-26-06, 03:38 PM

I will use the AVIA and SPL this weekend
are there any tests that I should jump right to on the disc ? Are any more helpful then others ?

Nick250

10-26-06, 09:33 PM

The auto set up did work fine when I set the gain to full on the sub it set the sub to -5 and the mains to + 12
So than I ran it again and brought the gain way down on the sub to get 0 at all speakers
It took a few trys , but it is working properly

As cneely8 said, if all your your speakers are the same db, (zero in your case) something is wrong. It just does not work that way, because of room acoustics the speakers always have differnt values. With all due respect, consider checking out the link I gave you on system setup.

Nick

antman27

10-26-06, 10:20 PM

I will pull out the AVIA and SPL but one question since this SB12Plus is a sealed unit does space against the back wall come into play ?Should it be close or have some room in back.Unfourtnly my room does not have a corner that I can utlize
Alos question on placing subs in the corners of a room NOW I am only speaking on music not HT , could you have the sub behind you and the mains infront & REALY Not be able to tell the sub was behind you and have it blend with the mains upfront for MUSIC ?

mojomike

10-27-06, 03:16 AM

Your output would most likely be stronger with the sub as close to the wall as possible, but that doesn't necssessarily mean the response will be flatter. It depends on the room and your seating postion in the room.

You could have the sub behind you or to the side of you and get away with it especially if you keep your crossover setting fairly low.

rockemsockem

10-27-06, 10:17 AM

My sub is next to my couch, see pics, and I think it blends wonderfully with my mains. As long as you calibrate properly, and get the phase dialed right, it will work behind the couch. On the last page of this thread, I describe a quick and dirty way to adjust your phase.

antman27

10-27-06, 12:32 PM

DonnieW

10-28-06, 09:43 AM

Has anyone have experience with Rocket Digital Equalization System

http://www.**********/products_category_brand.php?section=processors&brand=48
I was wondering if it would be worth a try or a waste of $$ since the sb12+ has PEQ
I came across a used one for a great price

With that much money you could buy a nice Behringer DEQ2496 and also buy the mic and cables to boot!

Works like a charm and blows every other pseudo sub-eq out of the water.

antman27

10-28-06, 10:09 AM

Thanks but the one I was looking at was used like new and was $250

DonnieW

10-28-06, 10:30 AM

Seems like a logical place to put some support info for those wishing to upgrade their drivers.

Anyone who is contemplating upgrading their drivers but isn't mechanically inclined, don't worry... we're here to help.

Let's face it, some of you might laugh at the following snapshots because replacing drivers is just too easy. However, there are others out there who might not even know the business end of a screwdriver. So don't flame me for this one!!! Truth be told it was a pain to take pictures when all I wanted to do was get the drivers replaced and get back to the music. But I've been given help from here before so I feel compelled to offer some shots and tips.

A little background... I own a 12.2 version of the PB12-Plus/2. It's BIG and it's BAD

I decided on upgrading the drivers to the 12.3 version for my own interest. Not trying to prove anything, just wanted to try them out. I also swapped out the amp due to an unexplained rattling. SVS was absolutely stellar in their support of the issue and it was in fact their quality of support [props to Erik at SVS] that nudged me to drop the $$ on the new drivers. Keep in mind there is absolutely nothing wrong with the 12.2's that were in my sub prior. Those are going to another good cause... more on that later.

So here's the stuff as it arrived yesterday. Took only 2 days to ship into Canada.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00001_std.jpg

A quick look at the new driver (still hard-coned but black now):

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00003_std.jpg

A shot of the replacement amp and also the extra port plug I requested (that's right, they don't forget things from your order - unlike getting screwed in the drive-thru!):

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00005_std.jpg

continues...

DonnieW

10-28-06, 10:32 AM

There she is...

She has no idea she's about to be gutted in the next few minutes. Least of all she has no clue she's getting a new pair of woofers ;)

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00007_std.jpg

continues...

DonnieW

10-28-06, 10:46 AM

Alright... A only a few things you'll need:

Philips (star) Screwdriver (one where the tip fits snug in the screw - this will avoid slipping and possible damage)

Robertson (square) Screwdriver (same advice as above)

Flat Screwdriver

Wire Strippers

Optional:

Cordless Screwdriver

Drill and 1/16 drill bit

Drywall Screws (#6 Wood)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It goes without saying but here it is... Make sure you have lots of room around you to do the work. Be careful not to tilt your sub into a wall or table or child. For that matter, [Ultra and PB12 owners] make sure your children and pets are accounted for before closing the sub up.

Start by flipping the box onto its side or back (in my case there is no amp in the back so I chose to flip it on the back - don't do this if you have an amp still attached, you may damage the controls)

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00008_std.jpg

DonnieW

10-28-06, 10:53 AM

If you have felt pads or rubber feet on the botton take them off. Removal of the pads will expose the screws you'll need to take off using a medium to large Phillips head screwdriver. (If you didn't flip you box with baseplate facing up, start by removing the screws from the bottom so the baseplate doesn't tip and hit you in the head).

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00009_std.jpg

Once removed, set the screws and spacers aside and flip the box so the drivers are facing the sky (if you haven't already).

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00010_std.jpg

Continues...

DonnieW

10-28-06, 10:59 AM

So there in front of you are the old drivers. Chances are they're secured with 8 Phillips screws each. Get your screwdriver or cordless and begin removing them. If you're using a cordless screwdriver or drill, go SLOOOOW. Don't use a long bit, rather a short bit and keep one hand close to the chuck (where the bit is placed) - this will help keep you from slipping off and into the driver :eek:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00012_std.jpg

Continues...

DonnieW

10-28-06, 11:13 AM

Now that you've got all the screws out (placed somewhere that you're not going to step on them), you need to gently lift the edge of the driver up. I suggest cautiously using a flat tip screwdriver. Start with the screwdriver standing straight up in between the driver and the edge of the wood. Then proceed to work the screwdriver under the edge of the driver, eventually lifting the edge. [Don't try to go in on an angle because you might slip and spear the cone).

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00013_std.jpg

You need only get it up enough to get your fingers under the sub. Once you can get you fingers underneath, SLOWLY lift the sub up and place on top of the box. Do not lift it too high, just enough to get it out and placed on the box. There are wires attaching the sub to the amp and they very short to keep from rattling!!

Once the sub is out, dicsonnect the wires from the terminals. You'll need to really wiggle them but do so carefully and they'll come off. Don't pull from the wire, rather grip the connector itself and slowly wiggle the connector until it comes free.

Continues...

DonnieW

10-28-06, 11:31 AM

I probably should have mentioned you'll need to remember where those wires go... Oh well I don't think it matters. Just kidding... We'll make sure they go back in the right place.

Looking at the box from a different angle you can see the amp and the two primary wires hanging from them.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00023_std.jpg

If your sub was working before you took it apart there is a good chance you have a single black wire sitting on the floor somewhere, you know, the one attached to the drivers you just took out. Don't lose that wire!

A little note on handling subs (or any speaker for that matter). These drivers are heavy... you don't want to handle the driver if you don't have to. Don't push the cone in to see if it's okay - because it won't be after you do that!! Not only that but you'll get finger prints all over it. Although the cone is durable as heck, it's not a good idea to play with it. Just make sure there are no tears in the rubber and that everything looks like it's in one piece. Make sure the spring terminals (the black and red colored chrome things where the wires are going to go) are still springy. They should spring back if you depress them.

Continues...

DonnieW

10-28-06, 11:48 AM

Next, take one of the new drivers and place it on top of the box. This driver is going to go furthest away from the amp. Pay attention here!!! This driver goes in the hole that is furthest away from the amp. You can do it other ways but this is the way we're doing it today!

Because the new drivers come with spring terminals and the former drivers with traditional connectors, you'll need to strip the old connectors off. This is simple enough with pair of wire strippers. ** You're going to cut the end that was connected to the speaker NOT the end near the amp. You should only be removing 1/2" at most - any more than that and you're not paying attention. Simply cut the old connectors off as close to the end as possible. Then, using a pair of wire strippers, strip off about 1/2" of wire from both the black and red wires coming from the amp. You will need to do the same with the loose black wire you have. Simply cut the two connectors off and strip about 1/2" off. You should now have bare strands of wire on the end of each wire.

Once you've got the driver placed there make sure you've pulled the red wire through the correct driver opening, then, attach the bare RED WIRE to the RED TERMINAL of the new driver.

Attach one end of the loose BLACK WIRE to the BLACK TERMINAL of the new driver.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00026_std.jpg

Continues...

DonnieW

10-28-06, 11:58 AM

Now that you've got the wires hooked up, give them a gentle tug to make sure they're not coming out. Also make sure there are no loose strands of wire that you didn't get through the spring-clip holes.

Once you've checked over the above, gently lift the driver into the hole - orienting the spring terminals towards the amp. This will likely seem like the most obvious way as it provides the most cable slack.

When placed, you'll need to fish out the two remaining wires with your hand and pull them though the remaining opening.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00032_std.jpg

As you can see, the driver is furthest away from the amp. You should have two black wires remaining. One comes from the amp and the other from the driver you just installed.

Continues...

DonnieW

10-28-06, 12:07 PM

Next, place the second new driver on top of the box. You will need to attach the BLACK WIRE FROM THE AMP to the BLACK TERMINAL on the driver.

Attach the remaining black cable to the red terminal. It's important to make sure the cable that comes from the amp goes directly to the black (negative) terminal of the second driver you installed.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00039_std.jpg

I know it might seem strange to wire things like this but it's perfectly normal. The theory behind that can be found in other threads for sure.

Once connected, do the same jiggle test and make sure the wires are firmly in place. Next, slowly place the sub into the opening with the spring-clips facing the other driver (basically both pairs of spring-clips will be facing each other).

Continues...

DonnieW

10-28-06, 12:29 PM

Both drivers should be seated and looking good. The next step is to simply line up the holes and replace the screws.

** Although I don't recommend this to non-DIY'ers I feel more comfortable making new holes to secure the drivers. This is a simple task, however, it's easy enough to damage something so do this at your own risk. **

If you choose to make new holes you'll need a small (1/16-1/8") drill bit. Begin by spinning the driver so that the driver holes are in the middle of the existing holes on the box (basically you'll be drilling into clean wood that's not near the existing holes).

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00041_std.jpg

Center the driver from the edges as best as you can. Then, starting at any hole, drill a pilot hole all the way through the wood. Be careful not to bottom the drill chuck on the driver. Also make sure you don't leave the drill in a silly spot.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00044_warn.jpg

Before drilling more holes, take a screw and lightly secure the driver. This will help keep the following screws aligned. Next, drill another hole and again lightly secure it with a screw. Now that you've got two screws in place, make sure the driver is still centered and looks good. If so, go ahead and drill the remaining holes. Make sure you CAREFULLY vacuum the wood dust up.

Next, begin placing the screws in place. I prefer to use my own screws - which are #6 1-5/8" drywall screws (for wood). I find these to be the absolute best screws to use, however, you're free to use the old ones.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00045_std.jpg

Continues...

DonnieW

10-28-06, 12:35 PM

It's the home stretch... Now you need only put the base plate back on. I'd simply flip the sub so that the drivers are vertical (on on top of the other). This will allow you to rest the base plate on the floor and start inserting the spacers and screws.

In my case I had someone help hold the base plate, therefore I didn't flip the sub.

Make sure you thread the screws in by hand before using any sort of power tool. That way you won't strip any threads.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00047_std.jpg

Continues...

DonnieW

10-28-06, 12:43 PM

That's It!!

Well... maybe you could put those rubber feet back on if you want. Personally I find it amusing to stun my guests by allowing the sub to creep a few feet during the course of a good bassy movie. :D

Once you put the sub back in it's home, be sure to re-check your levels. I've got a Behringer DEQ2496 with mic that does the job from the seating position.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/SVS/img00048_std.jpg

And a snapshot of the Behringer...

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/542.jpg

So that's pretty much it. I'm sure I missed a couple little things and could probably have added more detail but it's really a simple job. I hope it motivates some to try tweaking their stuff, whether an SVS upgrade or oterhwsie. If I can add anything or any more images I'll be glad to help.

Donnie

madpoet

10-28-06, 12:52 PM

Very detailed Donnie... nice job!

ChrisRA

10-28-06, 06:09 PM

I currently have a dedicated home theater and I'm looking to purchase a new sub. I am currently running a Sony DGR 800 receiver with infinity center and Klipsch floor standing speakers. My surrounds are bose for the time being. Anyway I need some imput on the SVS PCI 25-31 cylindrical sub...all the reviews are great but I want to hear from someone who actually ownes one.

thanks for the help

Josuah

10-28-06, 07:25 PM

I've got a 16-46PC+, which is a bigger and more powerful version. It's excellent for movies and music. I also own a Velodyne SPL1200-II, and have heard a Hsu STF-2, Velodyne DD-15, and some lower-end subs as well.

kiwishred

10-28-06, 07:41 PM

rockemsockem

10-28-06, 09:08 PM

Josuah - How do you find the 16-46PC+ compares with the Velodyne SPL1200-II ? Similar ? Night and day difference ? Do you think you could tell in a blind test which one was which ?

Actually, I guess the brands don't really matter that much (I would expect both are top notch quality) so what I am really looking to find out is what difference the extra 10 to 15 Hz bottom end extension that the SVS really makes, and under what circumstances ?

I am asking this coming from a Velodyne SPL-1000 as my reference.

Thanks,
Brent

I currently have the PB10-isd, have recommended and installed a 20-39Pci for someone else, and am planning to upgrade to a 25-31Pci tuned to 22 Hz in the very near future :-)

Everytime I go over the person's home that I installed teh 20-39Pci in, and he has it in a 40 ft. long basement. I am astonished by the amount of headroom he has over my PB10-isd. According to SVS the 25-31Pci has 50% more output potential over my PB10, that's why I want to upgrade.

Now, is music is your concentration, the 25-31 is the way to go. But if HT is your thing, and you want the most balanced sound between musicality and sheer low end output, I say spend the extra $50 and get the 20-39 Pci.

I'm still torn on whether I should go 20-39 or 25-31, the reason being that I really don't want the sub to be taller than my couch, which it sits right next to.

I hope this helps.

aus

10-29-06, 01:33 AM

I think I've read here they can make a 22-31 for you for no charge.

Ironmike86

10-29-06, 02:46 AM

I'm still torn on whether I should go 20-39 or 25-31, the reason being that I really don't want the sub to be taller than my couch, which it sits right next to.
Me too. Save for the plus. It will go lower and louder than the 20-39 and the PB12 NSD. I was told by SVS. it has ports to adjust with plugs

FR0ST

10-29-06, 04:28 AM

Just got my SB12Plus to replace my Paradigm PS1000
SVS is cleaner sounding all around, but for movies it lacks something compare to Paradigm, SVS has less of a impact I need something bigger with more balls, my room is small 10X14 I'm thinking you guys were right PB12Plus is a minimum for HT
Bought it from Sonicboomaudio in Toronto great guy.

Chris

antman27

10-29-06, 06:53 AM

ChrisRA

10-29-06, 09:49 AM

Rockem,

Thanks for your reply. Seems your the only one who answered my question here. My room is really geared towards HT rather than music, however I love to watch concert DVD's (Eagles farewell is my favorite). Would you still recommend the larger SVS for me? Why or Why not?

I just placed my order and still have time to change it. Do you think I will notice a difference in sound? By the way you should know that my room is only 11x13.

Thanks

WolfsBane

10-29-06, 10:37 AM

I have not hade the chance to try my SB12plus for HT yet but it does blow my Paradigm PDR8 out of the water
Much more musical
Bass notes sound like bass notes and the kick drum that you can feel
When I calibrated yesterday I set the gain to about half for HT BUT For music I like more bass so I gave it about 1/3 turn on the gain and made 2 sharpie marks on the gain knob
It may not be properly calabrated for music but hell it sounds great to me so who cares what the spl said :rolleyes: :eek:

If you are able to adjust the level of your sub from your receiver, I've found it easier to set the level for music at the receiver. I first set a calibrated level at the sub's gain, (using the AVIA disk and the SPL meter), for HT, (the level at the receiver set to "0"). This is my base overall level. The combined net result for LFR and LFE of the calibration, (between the main speakers and the center and back speakers), results in a net level of low frequency at about 1.5 to 2 dbs above my ideal balance level for music applications. So, anytime I listen to music, it is both easy and convenient to simply adjust the level for the sub at the receiver to -1.5 or -2 dbs depending on the source.

billybob_jcv

10-29-06, 11:06 AM

If you can swing the larger sub, I really see no downside - the 20-39 can do anything the 25-31 can do, and it will go lower without losing as much SPL as using a 25-31 with a 22hz tune.

Ironmike86

10-29-06, 11:40 AM

room is only 11x13. Plenty of sub IMO

DrPainMD

10-29-06, 02:30 PM

I was recommend the 25-31PCi by Tom from SVS for my 12x16x8 room and budget. 60% HT - 40% Music

I think our 25-31PCi($549) would be a perfect fit for this room size. I would allow us to custom tune it to 22hz for you. This will give you strong bass all the way down to 18-20hz, with 109-115dB of clean output..:) The 22hz option is a no cost option..:)

Tom V.
SVS

FR0ST

10-29-06, 05:32 PM

DonnieW

10-29-06, 05:37 PM

PB12-Plus/2

I just swapped out the drivers, as per my posts in this thread, and absolutely love the low extension. I've got it in 16Hz mode now, so there is a little cut at the top. I don't mind because the rest of my system has no problems with bass.

Will Sonic Boom let you swap the sub with another SVS?

antman27

10-29-06, 05:59 PM

Question would improper placement = a lack of lows
and if so & hade no choice in moving the sub would rasing the gain composite for thos lack ?

ChrisRA

10-29-06, 06:24 PM

Thanks Doc,

I spoke with Ron and Erick at SVS and they both recommended the custom tuning for my set up. Should have my new sub by Friday....I'll update you after my first viewing!

ransac

10-29-06, 06:27 PM

If you have a room induced null, raising the volume won't help at all. A null is caused by the first sound wave and a reflected wave arriving at a point in the room 180 out of phase. This causes them to cancel each other out. If you raise the volume, the reflected wave is also raised. Same result. You either have to move the sub, move the LP, or get room treatments. But, sometimes a small move will help.

mojomike

10-29-06, 06:30 PM

This is a direct quote from the SB's manual:

"Location. They say it’s ALL about location right? It’s the same with
subwoofers. So, where to put it? Go for a corner if you can, and avoid
putting your sub where it might adjoin large open areas. Studies have
shown that the deepest and flattest bass response is typically attained
when a subwoofer is placed within a few feet of one of your room’s
corners (leave about 3” in the back for port and cable clearance with any
wall or other surface). A corner near your favorite seat is best of all.
Whether you put the sub in front or to the rear of your seating area
makes surprisingly little difference. Deep home theater bass, like that
from “5.1 channel” DVDs is non-directional. You can’t tell where it is
coming from, even though you can hear, and feel it."

The sub's gain may be able to compensate for the overall amount of bass lost by not utilizing a corner, but the corner would most likely give the biggest boost to the deepest frequencies and would give more headroom overall. I would say that for HT purposes, go for a corner. For music, it would be less important.

FR0ST

10-29-06, 06:55 PM

FR0ST

10-29-06, 09:41 PM

should I get 20-39PC-Plus or PB12-plus since they are almost the same
Are they?

Chris

gary cornell

10-29-06, 10:44 PM

Curious as to the differences and whether to upgrade.

DrPainMD

10-29-06, 11:03 PM

Thanks Doc,

I spoke with Ron and Erick at SVS and they both recommended the custom tuning for my set up. Should have my new sub by Friday....I'll update you after my first viewing!

No problem ChrisRA, I'm going to be ordering mine sometime in early November from sonicboomaudio.

What size is your room?

Ron Temple

10-29-06, 11:19 PM

They look different, but they don't sound different. You choose... ;)

texaspledge

10-30-06, 12:34 AM

Yes I agree SB12plus is amazing for music, it doesn't get any better, but for HT the Paradigm PS1000 is louder and seems to go lower, I need something better than PS1000
I guess PB12plus is going to be the best for HT, as for music i think my Paradigm Studio 60v.3 should be just fine

Does anyone have any comments on how the SB12PLUS would compare to a Velodyne HGS-12X? I need a new subwoofer for a very large living room in an open floor plan house with 25' ceilings but because of WAF it MUST have an approximate 14"x14" footprint (I know, I know, this is tough).

I was very interested in the SVS but with the comments and review on aholics it seems to be a compromise on the low end. I've read the SVS lit and understand the tradeoffs but how come Velodyne seems to be able to do it? Is that why they cost more?

Thanks.

ransac

10-30-06, 12:49 AM

The Velo has an amp that is 3x the SVS, a servo to control the driver, and at more than 2x the cost. Though both have the same FR rating (22Hz), the Velo has the power to keep driving down low.

Ron Temple

10-30-06, 02:12 AM

Until someone compares the Velos head to head with the SB12+ we're all going to wonder if the SVS can or can't do it. Personally, I think Velo's SPL, HGS and DD 12 inch subs are what they are aiming at. If they are comparable at their price point, they've got a winner. So far, every comparison I've seen is vs. their own ported models. Someone will do one soon and the proof will be tapioca or want to be pudding

richard11

10-30-06, 03:22 AM

If you have a single Ultra and are thinking of upgrading, you should probably wait and see what the updated Ultra driver is like in a few months.

D-Bucket

10-30-06, 09:14 AM

I've read that the upcoming updated ultra driver will be 14" instead of 12". It will be most interesting to hear comparisons and/or contrasts between the following:

1. PB12 Plus/2 (new 12.3 drivers)
2. PB12 Ultra (current 12" driver)
3. PB12 Ultra (new 14" driver)
4. PB12 Ultra/2 (current 12" drivers)
5. PB12 Ultra/2 (new 14" drivers)

Also it would be nice to have a general reference table or chart of the above configurations showing their performance in a range of room sizes in terms of cubic volume.

Jugdish69

10-30-06, 09:33 AM

Is the PC-plus worth the extra $200 over the PCi subs for the all around average HT setup?

Mitch G

10-30-06, 10:03 AM

I would say it mostly depends on your room size (and budget).
If you have a big space to fill (your viewing room plus any connected spaces that cannot be sealed off), then the extra headroom of the plus is worth it.
Even if you don't need the headroom, but you can afford the $200, it's probably worth it for the better driver, and tunability.

I recently bought a 25-31 PC+ after starting out thinking of getting the PCi. But since I have an open floor plan, (over 4000 cubic feet, iirc), I decided the PC+ was worth it for the headroom alone. But, I ended up tuning it to 20Hz as well. I really am constantly impressed by the sound. Just the other night we were watching "Last Holiday" - not exactly a LFE-rich movie, but it had some bass drums parts in it that surprised me with the room impact even at modest listening levels.

Mitch

Hastley

10-30-06, 02:03 PM

antman27

10-30-06, 02:39 PM

DrPainMD

10-30-06, 02:53 PM

My question is about SVS speakers. Have any of you guys heard or bought the speakers for the 5.1 speaker system they have for 600 dollars?

Im interested in getting something better than HTIB quality and it seems good price for the speakers but how are the quality?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=742072&highlight=svs+speakers

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=14289648

mojomike

10-30-06, 03:09 PM

Quick question when I set my SB12+ to auto it keeps shutting off while watching tv
My old sub I had pluged into my denon so when the denon was off the sub was off & Vice Versa BUT SVS manual said not to power it up from an AVR ?

Do not power it from the AVR. Too much power draw.

Do one of two things:

1. Turn down the gain on the sub and turn up the level of the sub output from your Denon to compensate. That way the sub will "see" more signal and would be more likely to stay on.

or

2. Don't use Auto-on. Leave the sub on all the time. It won't hurt it and the draw when idle is very small.

Kipp Jones

10-30-06, 04:02 PM

Is the PC-plus worth the extra $200 over the PCi subs for the all around average HT setup?

Yes.

Nick250

10-30-06, 06:38 PM

Question would improper placement = a lack of lows
and if so & hade no choice in moving the sub would rasing the gain composite for thos lack ?

When I added the Tri Trap bass trap, I had to reduce the gain on the back of the sub about 30% for the same volume as before. Food for thought.

Nick

DrPainMD

10-30-06, 06:58 PM

Finally put in my order for the 25-31PCi (custom tuned to 22hz) from sonicboomaudio up here in Canada. Can't wait to feel some real bass!!!! Should be here by Friday. :D :D So long POS Advent sub!!!

EDIT: They rushed it out Today and I should be getting by Wednesday! Got my UPS tracking #!!

bgillyjcu

10-31-06, 11:18 AM

What Sub do you think I should consider.....12W x 16L x 8H living room with an opening to the dinning room and opening to kitchen off the dinning room.

MONEY IS AN ISSUE...meaning.......I have VERY LITTLE so I want to get the MOST SUB for the LOWEST amount of money.

SVS options appear to be....
PB10-NSD $429
PB12-NSD $599

Would the PB10 be ENOUGH bass?
(I have a Cerwin Vega LW-12 right now that I'm judging this on).... ( I know you can never have enough but $170more is basically buying my surrounds!!)

(not so sure about the Cylinder subs.....)

ps.....

How do you properly Calibrate a Subwoofer. I've never done it, so I want to learn.
Might as well get practice with this now while I have my Vega Sub for now...

Thanks

DrPainMD

10-31-06, 11:44 AM

How do you properly Calibrate a Subwoofer. I've never done it, so I want to learn.

Thanks
Try this: http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3418

some info on the SVS site also: http://www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm#meter

sparkbox

11-01-06, 04:56 PM

Well I spent 2 weeks trying to figure out what sub to buy for my 3000 cubic ft HT room. I talked with Eric at SVS and someone at HSU Research.

Eric from SVS was telling me I needed the PB12-Plus/2 since my HT room is actually 6000+ cubic feet because one side is partially open to the basement. The portion which is the HT room is actually 3000 cubic feet and the sub would be placed in a corner of drywall with concrete behind. The only problem was the PB12-Plus/2 weight. So I inquired about the 20-39 PC–Plus sub. Eric said I would need 2. Well I really felt I was being over-sold and said wouldn't it be better to start off with one and if necessary and another? He simply stated one is not enough.

So I checked out HSU and the asked for more details about the room and finally said their VTF 3 MK2 would be enough especially where I intend to place the sub.

Well I bought the HSU sub and I am just amazed. I'm sure if I purchased a similar sub from SVS I would have been happy, but at the end I chose HSU for the customer support and I didn't feel like they were trying to over-sell me.

Just my 2 cents was wondering if any SVS owners had similar experiences. If any one is in Columbus or Powell Ohio and has a SVS sub I would love to compare my HSU sub to it.

Matt

Cvetan1

11-01-06, 05:30 PM

sparkbox

11-01-06, 05:56 PM

Eric is right...

For that size of a room one usually isn't enough. I can't see Eric pushing you to buy two subs? I'm sure he recommended one and that you could always get another if you weren't happy.

For most people that HSU is not enough sub for that size of room. Glad to hear you are happy with it.

Mike

By rule of thumb Eric maybe right. However Eric really didnt show much concern over details of the room layout and materials that made up the walls. At HSU they had me send a diagram representing the dimensions and where the seating was located and the composition of each wall.

I cannot imagine having more bass. The bass volume knob is turned 1/3 up and my Denon AVR-4306 calibrated the sub to -12 db (based on 6 locations) I then balanced everything using AVIA @ 85 db.

Basically I would need two subs if I was centered in a 6000 cubic ft room. However, since I am located to one side of the area and my seating distance is 12 to 16ft from the sub - which is located in the corner of two walls composed of concrete and the floor is also concrete. Only one bass is needed. The space I need to fill from the corner is therefore 3000 cubic feet. Bass sound maybe non-directional but my listening area is in close enough proximity where 2 subs would have been overkill

My main purpose was to see if anyone in the Columbus area of Ohio has an SVS (since SVS is made in Ohio) sub and want to compare the sound & impact. I really don't want a SVS Fanboy response.

Matt

ransac

11-01-06, 06:24 PM

Then read the title of this thread.

Cvetan1

11-01-06, 06:36 PM

Curious how you come to the conclusion that I gave you a "fan boy respnse"?? :rolleyes:

You posted this in the SVS owners/Support Thread, everyone hear would be shocked to hear that Eric would steer you in the wrong direction. I'm sure Eric would be shocked if he read this himself.

I'm glad you are enjoying your HSU, it's a great sub! However, why on earth do you want to compare it to an SVS?? Are you suffering from buyer's remorse? If you want to compare the HSU to Plus/2 you will be in for a rude awakening! :)

I guess the answer you are looking for is that Eric from SVS is a total shite bag, and will sell you anything to makes a few bucks. Good thing you bought an HSU, what a terrible company SVS is!! :rolleyes:

Mike

billybob_jcv

11-01-06, 06:39 PM

What is the point of posting a rant against SVS in the SVS owners thread? I have personal experience of SVS *not* overselling me. I own a PB10-ISD and when the NSD was released I asked SVS if an upgrade was available. They replied that the 10" NSD driver would not be a performance upgrade over what I had and that I didn't need to swap. They could have easily sold me an NSD driver - and they didn't.

You got the answer you wanted to hear from Hsu - good for you, go be happy.

sparkbox

11-01-06, 06:43 PM

Then read the title of this thread.

What a lame response I know what thread title is - which is why I posted here. I just want to compare my sub with an SVS in my HT room and was hoping someone in my area would reply.

What is the deal with the haters?

Hell if the SVS is sounds better and is musical I would send back the HSU for the SVS. I just was providing background (not a rant) why I made my choice.

No buyer's remorse just curious to hear the SVS.

No crap of course the PB12-Plus/2 would blow away the VTF3 MK2 it has 2 12" drivers and a larger cabinet. I think I already establish the fact 2 subs or the PB12-Plus/2 would be overkill. I'm thinking either the PB12-Plus or 20-39 cyclinder.

Didn't mean to offend anyone's ego.
By the way more bass doesn't = better. I dont care if my teeth rattle I just want solid, tight bass that can respond musically and also meet THX standards for movies.
The HSU seems to fit the guideline but I am curious to hear the SVS. If your reply isn't going to be conducive then don't waste your time and this forum's storage space.

Matt

Cvetan1

11-01-06, 06:59 PM

ransac

11-01-06, 07:05 PM

What a lame response I know what thread title is - which is why I posted here. I just want to compare my sub with an SVS in my HT room and was hoping someone in my area would reply.

What is the deal with the haters?

Hell if the SVS is sounds better and is musical I would send back the HSU for the SVS. I just was providing background (not a rant) why I made my choice.

No buyer's remorse just curious to hear the SVS.

No crap of course the PB12-Plus/2 would blow away the VTF3 MK2 it has 2 12" drivers and a larger cabinet. I think I already establish the fact 2 subs or the PB12-Plus/2 would be overkill. I'm thinking either the PB12-Plus or 20-39 cyclinder.
MattYou made the original post about HSU. You think SVS was trying to over sell, but there are many here that have been talked down by Erik, Ron, Tom. For a 6000 ft^3 room, everyone else in here would have said 'get a +/2'. When you got a reasonable, polite reply from Mike, you referred to it as a fanboy response. Then you wonder about the haters ( I assume you mean HSU haters), because I gave you a quick reply. If you look at the history of my recommendations, you will see HSU on many occasions.
The fact you think you get enough bass from the MKII is relative. I probably wouldn't think so. HSU didn't really have anything else to offer except the HO, if you wanted to wait till next year. If Erik was going to oversell, he would have said you needed an Ultra/2 or dual +/2. For a space your size, I would want a +/2 at least. I have over 8800 ft^3 and a single +/2. I need a second to fill the space. But I do get plenty of bass with one, I just want more.
So for my less lame response, I believe Erik was correct. If your happy with your MKII's output, great, but that doesn't mean it is size right for your room, it's just sized right for you.
After you spend more time in this forum, you will find the SVS owners are the most helpful when it comes to sub selection, placement, calibration... Not to say others aren't helpful, just that there are more SVS owners here than any other brand. But, because SVS subs are usually included in the recommendations, we are accused of being fanboys. That is not a term of endearment. So, when people get a little sensitive, that is why.

sparkbox

11-01-06, 07:08 PM

With your rude remarks, no one is going to help you out! You can take your HSU and shove it up your..... you fill in blank!!! :D

What the hell? What is rude? I have been catching nothing but flack and rude replies. I just wanted to compare subs. I guess I will buy a couple SVS models myself and test them.

Matt

Cvetan1

11-01-06, 07:28 PM

What the hell? What is rude? I have been catching nothing but flack and rude replies. I just wanted to compare subs? I guess I will buy a couple SVS models myself and test them.

Matt

Let me refresh your memory...

Lame response, haters, fanboys, rude replies, and ohhh the lines, " Didn't mean to offend anyone's ego" , and "If your reply isn't going to be conducive then don't waste your time and this forum's storage space."

Does any of this ring a bell??? With the last quote, go practice what you preach!!

bd8653

11-01-06, 07:29 PM

What a lame response I know what thread title is - which is why I posted here. I just want to compare my sub with an SVS in my HT room and was hoping someone in my area would reply.

What is the deal with the haters?

Hell if the SVS is sounds better and is musical I would send back the HSU for the SVS. I just was providing background (not a rant) why I made my choice.

No buyer's remorse just curious to hear the SVS.

No crap of course the PB12-Plus/2 would blow away the VTF3 MK2 it has 2 12" drivers and a larger cabinet. I think I already establish the fact 2 subs or the PB12-Plus/2 would be overkill. I'm thinking either the PB12-Plus or 20-39 cyclinder.

Didn't mean to offend anyone's ego.
By the way more bass doesn't = better. I dont care if my teeth rattle I just want solid, tight bass that can respond musically and also meet THX standards for movies.
The HSU seems to fit the guideline but I am curious to hear the SVS. If your reply isn't going to be conducive then don't waste your time and this forum's storage space.

Matt

Ah people and our perceptions of personal/thread attacks. I would think having two would be a bit of overkill also, unless you are actually building a home theatre that you could charge equal or higher admission to conventional theatres. Sorry you didn't get the kind of experience you were hoping to receive from SVS and I hope when it does come time for me to make my final buying decision that I am not swayed away by something like this.
Most of the things that are suggested are generalizations along "reference" levels. The reference levels I am seeing here, as well as in most of my other research have been placing the bar higher than I (personally) would expect to meet in general use. That being said, it is nice to know that the bar is set high so that I know I will not be let down should I want to hit that level. And with an SVS I do believe I would end up doing it- like I could just sit there content and not loosen my homes foundation knowing the power was sitting RIGHT THERE!
as for your question about people have SVS in your area maybe this will help you locate someone: http://www.frappr.com/svsowners
Although, based on the weight of these speakers I wonder how many would be actually willing to take it to someone elses location. Doesn't hurt to ask though :D

sparkbox

11-01-06, 07:38 PM

as for your question about people have SVS in your area maybe this will help you locate someone: http://www.frappr.com/svsowners
Although, based on the weight of these speakers I wonder how many would be actually willing to take it to someone elses location. Doesn't hurt to ask though :D

Thanks for the frapper map tip. I also want to send an apology to those I offended.

Matt

paul scheffler

11-01-06, 08:05 PM

My living room is 14x26x8 (carpeted). My HT is at one end with the wall unit about 11 ft from the seating area. I have 2 B&W 601's in front and 2 more in the rear, with a B&W LCR600 center. Currently my sub (Sound Dynamics THS-10) is on the front wall, but i will need to move it with the new wall unit. I will be moving it (the new SVS) to the corner between the couch and loveseat. My biggest problem is size. Ideally I would like to put a PB12-NSD in that spot, but the wife freaked when I showed her the size. My only other 2 choices are a 25-31pci+ or SB12+ (which she is in favor of). Both are about the same price. She is not really happy about the cyllinder. Do you think the SB12+ will work in this size room? Receiver is a Pioneer Elite VSX54-TX (110x7). BTW, this is used for 100% HT and gaming. Thanks for your input.

rockemsockem

11-01-06, 08:14 PM

I say just do like I did, and just buy it and deal with her complaining. It's too heavy for her to move, so it will just stay there :-)

That is a pretty good sized room, with your viewing area a good distance from your front soundstage. The SB12+ is a great sub from what I hear, and being that your putting it right under your couch, it will have good impact with movies. But being so far from your mains and not being a powerful as the PB12, I would be concerned about it blending in with music.

I would email SVS, and see what they say.

Ron Temple

11-01-06, 08:22 PM

I think you're ok with the SB12+ nearfield in your room. Set the room filter to large and you should be fine. If you haven't heard an SVS ported sub, then you won't miss the added LF package. If you just gotta have it...screw WAF and go for it.

I've heard sealed subs and auditioned one high end servo sub...if the SB12+, and I believe it is, is as good, you won't be disappointed at all. What you lose in extention and output is given back in clarity. With SVS that's probably not much.

Enjoy

billybob_jcv

11-01-06, 08:49 PM

I thnk I would go for the SB12Plus - it's made for placement situations just like yours. I'm not sure what the difference in max output is between the PB12-NSD and the SB12Plus - you might email SVS and ask 'em. I don't know of another small sub that's a better value for that price - maybe someone else will chime in.

cneely8

11-01-06, 08:53 PM

>screw WAF and go for it.

You better get one that's front ported- it may be the only thing you're pluggin' for a while...

ransac

11-01-06, 08:56 PM

paul scheffler

11-01-06, 09:10 PM

>screw WAF and go for it.

You better get one that's front ported- it may be the only thing you're pluggin' for a while...

LMAO.

I have to admit, there has been a balance. She actually just let me drop $2,500 on new speakers/sub when I have a pretty decent set up now. We have a 6 month old that is getting rapidly mobile. Mobile baby + current Infinity floorstanders = trouble. So we are having a custom wall unit built and she "let me" buy new speakers, so if I have to "settle" for the "small" SB12+, then ......sigh...... I guess I have no choice. Guess I could always get another "small" SB12+ down the road if I needed it.

robbroy

11-01-06, 09:47 PM

sparkbox

11-01-06, 10:09 PM

Matt,

Your perception of the advice SVS gave you is certainly contradictory to their reputation, and my personal experience. SVS talked me *down* from the original sub I wanted to buy from them. In the end I bought even more sub – you can't have too much headroom. It may not have seemed that way, but Erik was only offering honest advice. Anyone who tells you that that a single driver subwoofer from either SVS or Hsu will hit reference levels (assuming some reasonable limit of distortion) in a 6,000 cubic foot space is "trying to sell you something".

That said, you have a good subwoofer there, and I do hope that someone in your area will be willing to drag a dual driver SVS model to your house. When you hear some of the more demanding scenes played back with headroom, it is something special.

-Robb

-Ok I get it SVS is great and Erik offers great customer service. I guess I got him on a bad day then. Whatever. I was just providing background as to why I did not purchase SVS. I asked Erik if I could just try one and he was insistent that it would not be enough. Also the listening space 3000 cubic feet which spills to an additional 3000 cubic feet. I tried to explain the space, but I felt he did not listen. Whereas at another vendor the wanted me to send them the room dimensions, tell them wall composition, and location of the theater seating. I just went where I got the best customer service.

But everyone here get so defensive I mean come 'on some guy told me to shove a sub up my ass. What the hell? Even one person agreed I was treated unfairly and also agreed that 2 subs would be overkill.

I am just going buy some SVS and have listen.

**** I even apologized and look what kind of crap I get

So back off!

-Matt

rockemsockem

11-01-06, 10:33 PM

If I would have listened to Stephen @ sVS, i would have bought the 25-31, but I "settled" for the PB10. Now I'm trying to save extra money for the 25-31.

sparkbox

11-01-06, 10:54 PM

If I would have listened to Stephen @ sVS, i would have bought the 25-31, but I "settled" for the PB10. Now I'm trying to save extra money for the 25-31.

Why didn't you just return the PB10 to get the 25-31?

In my case if I listened to Eric I would have had too much bass - I am going to order 2 SVS subs 1 20-39 cylinder and the PB12 plus and see which one I like best.

G-star

11-01-06, 10:56 PM

But everyone here get so defensive I mean come 'on some guy told me to shove a sub up my ass. What the hell? Even one person agreed I was treated unfairly and also agreed that 2 subs would be overkill.

I am just going buy some SVS and have listen.

**** I even apologized and look what kind of crap I get

So back off!

-Matt

you got those type of responses (warranted or not) b/c you decided to sh*t all over SVS in the "SVS owner's thread". what did you think was going to happen? sometimes people perceive things differently than they might sound to you in your own head. that's the inherent problem with these types of forums (indirect communication).

well, at least we made it to 369 posts before this thread started going off the rails... :(

sparkbox

11-01-06, 11:08 PM

you got those type of responses (warranted or not) b/c you decided to sh*t all over SVS in the "SVS owner's thread". what did you think was going to happen? sometimes people perceive things differently than they might sound to you in your own head. that's the inherent problem with these types of forums (indirect communication).

well, at least we made it to 369 posts before this thread started going off the rails... :(

Wait I sh!t all of a forum because I am curious about trying out SVS sub. I sh!t all over a forum because I got bad customer service and talk about it just to see if anyone else had a similar experience.

I have yet to get an apology - I offer one and get more **** for it. Great forum you guys have going. No really - I like the fact you can't express a thought.

All bow to the SVS gods and beg for mercy and whatever you do dont say anything unless you are going to be kissing ass.

-Matt

billybob_jcv

11-01-06, 11:14 PM

Or just leave. That works too.

sparkbox

11-01-06, 11:19 PM

Or just leave. That works too.

You make a good point. I'm now just having fun with you guys.

Kipp Jones

11-01-06, 11:55 PM

I just moved from a box Velo DLS4000 to a 25-31 PC Plus becuase the wife liked the look of the cylinder. She even likes it better now that it is here. The material used on the cylinder looks great. Go for the cylinder, nice small footprint.

Ironmike86

11-02-06, 12:42 AM

the 25-31 pc + is suppose to go as low as the PB12 NSD with the port plug and still go louder. I would get that. It would be good for HT Music and Waf. Just cost alittle more. Get all the sub you can now. Maybe your last for awhile.

Ron Temple

11-02-06, 12:50 AM

It's all about what you think is enough...I've heard the VTF3.2 and have a 20-39+, 2000 into 5000 cube. It seems plenty to me, but I've had dual high performance subs in here and there's no comparison. Erik was giving good advice based on what most of the AVS and other forum crowd is looking for...reference level base.

You would have been more than happy with a single Plus. Depending on taste, maybe happier than you are with the Hsu. Maybe not...

thebland

11-02-06, 07:58 AM

That's a tough one...a living room is not the ideal place for a set of speakers and a large sub...Try a small sub and transcducers.

robbroy

11-02-06, 08:45 AM

Matt,

Not everyone here is "out to get you". You posted your impression, and I related my experience. If you took any of what I said as a personal attack, I apologize, and assure you that was not the intent.

-Robb

bgillyjcu

11-02-06, 10:02 AM

I love SVS but I'm going to say Lighten up on this guy....

He has the right to an opinion.....

He wanted to compare......feels he was being oversold....Oh well...

My advice.....order the SVS that you feel is EQUAL to your HSU and compare it.

keep the one you like, send the one you don't like back........very simple fix and then you'll never wonder if you "SHOULD HAVE" bought the other sub.....

(That is why you test drive more than 1 car........so you narrow it down to the one you REALLY want.)

apodaca

11-02-06, 10:53 AM

WAF is a points based system game - its one of those things you need to figure it out for yourself. Either that or just be Macho.

billybob_jcv

11-02-06, 11:58 AM

Unfortunately, WAF is not a zero-sum game - it more like the finances - "Our Money" & "Her Money"... :p

Kal Rubinson

11-02-06, 12:07 PM

I don't understand this WAF thing. My wife and I don't feel that compromise works. And we have been married for 25 years. Compromise only seems to work if it goes her way. We have found it is better to set boundaries. She gets the furniture, drapes, nicknacks... I get the AV gear, other electronics, computers, and cars. Works for us.So far, so good.

Wives buy all kinds of furniture that husbands couldn't care less about. Large dinning rooms tables, china hutches, side boards, end tables, sofa tables, entertainment centers, armoires... Whoa! If my wife bought an entertainment center without consulting me, it would be firewood by the weekend. All those large items impact heavily on acoustics and operations and, therefore, are not independant of my goals.

So, just get the PB12 and show her how to decorate it to minimize its appearance. Put a doily and an artificial flower arrangement on top of it.OTOH, all my racks, bass traps and speakers interact with the appearance of the room (to which I am not completely blind), so I appreciate her comments/input about that aspect of my choices even though I usually reserve the final decision (which is, sometimes, no decision).

Unless you have a separate room for your toys (and never share cars), consultation (a better choice than compromise) is necessary.

F355FTS

11-02-06, 12:24 PM

Questions on my 20-39 pc plus. Thats making a loud pop noise during heavy bass scenes.

I just bought a new pioneer 1016. I did the auto set up with the gain on my sub at about 1/4. I think the 1016 set the referrence to -75 db. Any ways when i turn up the volume to about - 9 db which seems to be about right for movies. I am watching Das Boot and during the heavy bass scenes my sub will let out a loud pop noise every now and again. Am i running it to loud? Or is there maybe a problem with the sub?

I thought if i was pushing it to hard it would just disort and not make a loud popping noise.

Its sounds like when you take a plastic bag and blow it up with air then pop it.

Macfan424

11-02-06, 12:41 PM

It's all about what you think is enough...You would have been more than happy with a single Plus...
I totally agree.

I've heard a Mirage S12 in a room the size of yours, sparkbox, and it sounded very good to me (and it's owners), even though virtually no one here would think it was "enough." Not many would argue it is as powerful as either a SVS Plus or a Hsu VTF 3.

Some people (not at SVS) advised that one Plus wouldn't be enough for my room, but it turned out to be perfect for my tastes. It might not satisfy everyone here, though.

I think you shocked many of us by stating Eric had tried to over sell you, because it's contrary to the experience of so many of us here. I'm one of those who had SVS sell me down.

I'm sure Eric gave you what he believed to be his best advice, and you may have misinterpreted it as being oversell. One could just as easily make the case that Hsu did little more than recommend what they had to sell. I contacted both before buying, and had somewhat the opposite impression from yours. However, I believe both companies have integrity and each gave their honest opinion.

Certainly, you would not go wrong sticking with the Hsu, but it will probably give you some peace of mind to make the comparison you plan. I'd be surprised if you find a radical difference between SVS's boxes and cylinders, or even with Hsu's offerings at the same price points. You're likely to wind up deciding on something very subtle, or maybe even aesthetic.

Still, I hope you are willing to share your impressions with the rest of us (although I can't say that I'd blame you for not wanting to put up with all the flack you might be opening yourself up to ;) ).

DaisyHead

11-02-06, 12:58 PM

I placed my SVS 25-31 smack in the corner behind the Sony 55A2000 on tile floor. After an enthusiastic work out to the depth charges of U-571, I noticed that it had moved about a foot from where it was. What else can it do - roll over? catch a frisbee? WooHoo!!!

ThomasV555

11-02-06, 01:03 PM

Lay off the guy. He gave his impression. IMO, the real jerks are you guys who started attacking him. Face it everyone involved here is human including Erik. Maybe the interaction did not occur perfectly, but a lot of you had favorable interactions with him and that's all you needed to say.

Matt,
You live in Ohio. If you are close by their factory, swing by and grab a sub and compare it to yours. Some of us have actually done that (compare stuff) on this forum. Then keep the one you prefer. At least the shipping won't be an issue.

Personally, having heard 2 comparable subs I don't feel bad for owners of either sub company, but I do feel bad for those that need to attack others. This is a subwoofer, not religion or politics and you shouldn't attack people in those scenarios either. I am not a wussy moderate, if I thought one was significantly better than the others I would say so.

bgillyjcu

11-02-06, 01:19 PM

Does SVS allow Pick up of what you purchase?

robbroy

11-02-06, 01:42 PM

Does SVS allow Pick up of what you purchase?

Yes, they do.

-Robb

berty52

11-02-06, 02:31 PM

I had this problem with my PC Ultra. I went to Home Depot and bought a rubber carpet that I cut to the exact diameter ant put it under the sub. That's it no more walking sub.

Bert

bgillyjcu

11-02-06, 03:18 PM

Do they have a showroom? or is it just a warehouse where you can pick up the stuff?

I ask because I live in Cleveland which is really close to where they are located!

F355FTS

11-02-06, 03:58 PM

All my 20-39 pc plus does is make a loud popping noise when turned up on high bass movies. hmmmm

Cvetan1

11-02-06, 03:58 PM

You could get an Auralex SubDude from Sweetwater? I plan on getting a couple for mine, my PCU's love to "walk" also!!

Mike

Cvetan1

11-02-06, 04:04 PM

All my 20-39 pc plus does is make a loud popping noise when turned up on high bass movies. hmmmm

Did you properly calibrate the sub?? You need to turn the gain down on the sub, you are bottoming out the driver. Keep it up and you'll damage the driver.

Mike

Ron Temple

11-02-06, 05:16 PM

Do they have a showroom? or is it just a warehouse where you can pick up the stuff?

I ask because I live in Cleveland which is really close to where they are located!Give them a call...they'll give you a tour...and yes they have a demo room (I've been told).

maccin

11-02-06, 08:01 PM

Hi Guys. I just ordered the PB-10. I have a pair of Cambridge Soundworks Tower I series for my fronts. My question reagrding the PB-10 is whether I should set my front speakers to "large" because they are towers, or if I should set them to small. In one of the reviews I read, the reviewer set his fronts to small before performing any testing.

Ron Temple

11-02-06, 08:14 PM

G-star

11-02-06, 08:42 PM

never set speakers to "large" with such a capable sub. generally, most people cross-over at 80Hz with bookshelves. you may want to lower that to 60Hz with full range towers, though.

antman27

11-02-06, 08:52 PM

I understand that setting speakers to small makes them more eficant and the amp runs better.but it kills me if I had a nice pair of towers and setting them to small
My Paradigm 40's are concered bookshelfs but I want them to crank out some lows

Sdiver2489

11-02-06, 09:04 PM

robbroy

11-02-06, 09:11 PM

I think it's the label that kills people. Small vs. large. It just seems un-American to go "small" on anything. If they labeled it "use crossover" with Yes or No, people probably wouldn't have the same reaction. It's not just the efficiency, but when set to large, all but the very largest and capable towers will be asked to reproduce frequencies they just can't reproduce as well as a quality subwoofer will (especially at high volumes). Setting your towers to small is really just using the right tool for the job.

-Robb

bgillyjcu

11-02-06, 11:04 PM

All speakers (no matter how BIG or how TINY) should be set to SMALL when using a decent Sub.

If you want more bass, just put the crossover at its lowest setting that your reciever will let you.

Normal is 80hz and thats what I use...

DrPainMD

11-03-06, 12:09 AM

I got my new sub yesterday from Sonicboomaudio up here in Canada. Toom 2 days shipping. Was packed semi-OK, could have been better packed, like a double box.

Well first impressions sound wise is it's better so far than my 8" Advent. Putting them side by side is a joke, the SVS is a beast!

I listened to some U-571, Incredibles, King Kong, WOTW, Fining Nemo and it was awesome. Not as blown away as I thought I was going to be, but maybe in time I will be. I have not really listened to it and enjoyed it, probally do to the fact on the day that I got it, my wife got in a car accident(not her fault) so that took all the fun out of my new toy.

Working on sub placement and such to produce better output. It's big to move around!!

One question does come to mind, when I was trying to setup my speakers to 75db(no sound meter yet, was going on 75db is a vacuum cleaner, so I ran my vacuum while I did the test tones until I could here them) on my reciever using the internal test tone of it. At about -25db on my amp, it got way to loud for me, and my ears started to ring. I'm using a Pio VSX-515.

I do not have the greatest speakers in my HT, JVC fronts, Kenwood center and Advent surrounds. The test tone really kills my ears. I probably need new speakers and a new amp which in time I will be getting.

I guess until I get a SPL meter I'll truly never know how loud It is.

billybob_jcv

11-03-06, 01:13 AM

Yup - get an spl meter and a copy of Avia - well worth it! :)

Moondynejoe

11-03-06, 02:55 AM

Hi donnie,
Judging by your pic you are running the kef reference theatre speakers same as me (or at least the rears :)) I myself have that speaker set and am looking to add a SVS sub. Can you please tell me how you find the sub as a match for the kef set? and would you reccomend the sub to a fellow kef owner like myself?

Also did you get the sub that was part of the set? I did and unfortunately it was a POS I had to replace the driver in it before it would not bottom out on me.

Also one last thing if you run a 7.1 which speakers do you use for the back channels.

Sorry about getting off topic.

There she is...

She has no idea she's about to be gutted in the next few minutes. Least of all she has no clue she's getting a new pair of woofers ;)

continues...

DrPainMD

11-03-06, 04:43 AM

Yup - get an spl meter and a copy of Avia - well worth it! :)

Would you know why my ears would ring at higher volumes of the test tone?

maccin

11-03-06, 08:17 AM

Thanks for all of the great responses to my earlier question. I can't wait for the PB-10 to arrive.

Sdiver2489

11-03-06, 08:25 AM

Thanks for all of the great responses to my earlier question. I can't wait for the PB-10 to arrive.

My PB10 arrived...but I can't use it for another 51 days :(

billybob_jcv

11-03-06, 08:35 AM

Would you know why my ears would ring at higher volumes of the test tone?

No - other than perhaps the pink noise may be exciting a room mode - does it happen no matter where you are in the room, or does it seem to vary in intensity as you walk around the room? Is it only with the sub channel, or is all channels?

Pink noise is bloody annoying - I can only run tests when my wife is out of the house or she gets PO'd - of course the fact that I was running test tones & freq sweeps for about a week straight when I first got the system *might* have something to do with her sensitivity... :)

DonnieW

11-03-06, 08:40 AM

Hi donnie,
Judging by your pic you are running the kef reference theatre speakers same as me (or at least the rears :)) I myself have that speaker set and am looking to add a SVS sub. Can you please tell me how you find the sub as a match for the kef set? and would you reccomend the sub to a fellow kef owner like myself?

Also did you get the sub that was part of the set? I did and unfortunately it was a POS I had to replace the driver in it before it would not bottom out on me.

Also one last thing if you run a 7.1 which speakers do you use for the back channels.

Sorry about getting off topic.

It's not really off-topic as we're discussion how the SVS blends with existing speakers.

In my case, I don't own any KEF gear. The back half of my 7.1 system consists of 4 Paradigm Reference ADP 470's. You can kind of make them out in this shot from our analysis of acoustic panel placement.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/DonnieW/Panel.jpg

suniil

11-03-06, 08:44 AM

i'm using auralex gramma, where SVS sits peacefully

bgillyjcu

11-03-06, 10:46 AM

Has anyone had any experience buying from SVS's B-LIST.

Erik told me about it today and I looked on there and they have some good deals.
Just a little worried about "used" or "open" stuff....
But for the price they seem like good deals.

The one I am most interested is this one :
B-stock Model PB12- NSD Black
Product ID: b-PB12-NSD-black
This is the old model PB12-NSD with the base plate
$450

That's way cheaper than the $569 new one with my discount for a return customer

Erik wrote to me: "Basically the differences are that the new PB12-NSD can play lower (18hz vs 22hz), louder (maybe a db or two) and has a little smoother frequency response. The differences are not night and day but they are noticeable. At $450 I think the b-stock item is a good deal even knowing the differences but of course that’s a matter of personal opinion. "

I'm trying to stay around that $400 price tag of the NSD 10inch......but I'D LOVE to get the 12 because I know its performace would blow me away!

thoughts and opinions...(I like to remind people I am upgrading from a Cerwin Vega LW-12 that is 150Watts)

or I do have the option of a new PB10-NSD for $407

WolfsBane

11-03-06, 11:58 AM

DrPainMD

11-03-06, 01:04 PM

No - other than perhaps the pink noise may be exciting a room mode - does it happen no matter where you are in the room, or does it seem to vary in intensity as you walk around the room? Is it only with the sub channel, or is all channels?

Pink noise is bloody annoying - I can only run tests when my wife is out of the house or she gets PO'd - of course the fact that I was running test tones & freq sweeps for about a week straight when I first got the system *might* have something to do with her sensitivity... :)

It does'nt happen with the sub, just all other channels any where I'm in the room.

tigerkn

11-03-06, 02:32 PM

Lay off the guy. He gave his impression.............

Please DO NOT get mad at me, I just want to drop a line:

"CAN WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?"

Kev

jynx

11-03-06, 06:29 PM

Here's my reply from another thread "But it sounds good and if the wife doesn't like it, well I can just turn it up and I can't here her anymore so problem solved."

And if that isn't your attitude you can just show her a pic of thisSUB (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=745061) and tell her that she can choose between it and the SVS.

Davinleeds

11-03-06, 06:33 PM

Do you have a garage?

Moondynejoe

11-04-06, 04:10 AM

AHH I see, my mistake then. In your sub pics it looked so much like the kef dipolar rears from the reference cinema set.

very interected in those acoustic panels. I am considering some for the area covering first order of reflection off the mains but that really would be hijaking this thread so I will search the forum :)

[QUOTE=DonnieW]It's not really off-topic as we're discussion how the SVS blends with existing speakers.

In my case, I don't own any KEF gear. The back half of my 7.1 system consists of 4 Paradigm Reference ADP 470's. You can kind of make them out in this shot from our analysis of acoustic panel placement.

SbWillie

11-04-06, 09:41 AM

my wife's heavy into Home Interior stuff,etc. She's gonna hate having a 16-46 Plus in a corner lFortunately she's stuck getting used to two black JVS-7500 towers.

Are rubber mats the only real option in keeping pictures and various other forms of decoartions from sliding/falling?? Black rubber will not make my wife very happy.

DAB

11-04-06, 10:11 AM

I have the SVS12isd and it is big. However, if you place marbel slab ontop of it you have a custom coffee table and the WAF will not be an issue////
db

DrPainMD

11-04-06, 01:54 PM

Here's a pic of my old Advent 8" sub along side of my New 25-31PCi SVS Subwoofer (tuned to 22hz). I'm loving it!! :) :cool: :D

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/508/My_SVS_Subwoofer.jpg

ransac

11-04-06, 02:00 PM

That is the strangest HT Room I have seen. The TV behind the SVS looks a little small.

DrPainMD

11-04-06, 02:01 PM

That is the strangest HT Room I have seen. The TV behind the SVS looks a little small.
haha, cute :p

Cant take pictures in my HT room, to dark.

Cvetan1

11-04-06, 02:13 PM

i'm using auralex gramma, where SVS sits peacefully

Curious if anyone here uses a SubDude with their PCU?

I notice the SubDude measures 15"x15" square and the PCU is 16" in diameter.

Does it fit okay?

Mike

Tackleberry78

11-04-06, 03:54 PM

Here's a pic of my old Advent 8" sub along side of my New 25-31PCi SVS Subwoofer (tuned to 22hz). I'm loving it!! :) :cool: :D

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/508/My_SVS_Subwoofer.jpg

OH dear lord! I'll never be able to gain approval from my wife!!!

Cvetan1

11-04-06, 04:34 PM

It's not that bad. That Advent is just really tiny. :)

Mike

ransac

11-04-06, 04:47 PM

Curious if anyone here uses a SubDude with their PCU?

I notice the SubDude measures 15"x15" square and the PCU is 16" in diameter.

Does it fit okay?

Mike
That only makes for a 1/2" overhang on each side.

DrPainMD

11-04-06, 04:48 PM

It's not that bad. That Advent is just really tiny. :)

Mike

Yes it is, and thank goodness it's been replaced!

ransac

11-04-06, 04:49 PM

OH dear lord! I'll never be able to gain approval from my wife!!!The SVS is only 31" high and 16" diameter.

Macfan424

11-04-06, 04:59 PM

OH dear lord! I'll never be able to gain approval from my wife!!!
That picture creates the illusion that the 25-31 is much bigger than it is. From the pic, I'd swear it was bigger than my 16-46 PC+. Not that the 25-31 is exactly petite; it just isn't that big. ;)

DrPainMD

11-04-06, 05:09 PM

The Advent is 12x12x15 High(including feet)

Tackleberry78

11-04-06, 05:17 PM

yeah, i figured the box was just small. The illusion in that picture is that the cylinder is nearly as big as the oven behind it. I could just see my wife's face if I showed her that picture "WHAT! you want a subwoofer as big as an oven!" :D

DrPainMD

11-04-06, 05:29 PM

jvgillow

11-04-06, 05:38 PM

Best thing to do would be to line up some photos of the 16-46, 20-39, and 25-31 and show her how small the 25-31 is compared to other subwoofers :)

bbrc

11-04-06, 07:39 PM

Is the diffrence between PB10nsd and PB12nsd a big one.

The pb12 is 200$ more i prefer to pay now than later if its
worth it :)

Sorry wrong tread thought this was official svs tread :o

bbrc

11-04-06, 08:08 PM

Is the diffrence between PB10nsd and PB12nsd a big one.

The pb12 is 200$ more i prefer to pay now than later if its
worth it :)

Nick250

11-04-06, 08:25 PM

If you poke around on the SVS site they are pictured together somewhere. The PB12 looks substantially bigger to me.

Nick

bbrc

11-04-06, 08:39 PM

If you poke around on the SVS site they are pictured together somewhere. The PB12 looks substantially bigger to me.

Nick
I didn't want to know the size wrong wording from my part :)

Is there a big difference in performance :D

Nick250

11-04-06, 08:58 PM

Ah-ha. It was not a size question. In cubic feet what size is your room including other rooms that are open to the listening room if any.

Nick

bbrc

11-04-06, 10:09 PM

My room is about 4000cubic feet i have a sub rw10 klipsch
i thought whit another sub i would be okay.

SbWillie

11-04-06, 10:39 PM

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub.cfm

MUCHO

11-05-06, 01:19 AM

How about the VTF-3 HO without turbo?

antman27

11-05-06, 08:28 PM

So today I played more with my settings and I have my denon set the L&R speakers at 1.5 R .5 for L RS +4 RS +3 and sub +10 with the gain on the sub about 1/4
At low listening the sub still shuts off in auto mode
For HT this sounds great But I still feel the need to turn the gain up another 1/4 for music at low listening levels
BUT when I Cranked up SRV MFSLThe Sky Is Crying [GOLD CD] [ORIGINAL RECORDING REMASTERED] I put it back down a touch

MugenPower

11-06-06, 12:48 PM

SVS owners,

I just bought an PB-12Plus/2 for my HT system. I'm telling y'all this thing is off da hook.

Sdiver2489

11-06-06, 01:45 PM

SVS owners,

I just bought an PB-12Plus/2 for my HT system. I'm telling y'all this thing is off da hook.

:cool: Werd :cool:

jvgillow

11-06-06, 02:39 PM

New product literature: "SVS is proud to introduce the behemoth of the Plus subwoofer line: the PB12-Plus/2. It's off da hook!"

:D

SonyWS520Guy

11-06-06, 04:57 PM

Ron Temple

11-06-06, 06:33 PM

I've seen several threads and info elsewhere about SVS's driver upgrade program to update a sub from the ISD to the NSD driver. However my question is, is it possible or would it be worth it to upgrade a current ISD driver sub to the "Plus" or "Ultra" driver?

I currently have a PB12-ISD. Can I/Should I upgrade the driver to a "Plus" or "Ultra" driver? or would cost, amp, or other factors make this a bad idea?

My PB12-ISD is great, just always looking for more oomph! :) ThanksI think the question would be...would a Plus in an older PB12 cabinet and underpowered BASH amp be an improvement over a NSD driver? I kind of doubt it. The boxes and amps are matched for driver applications.

BrutalBodyShots

11-06-06, 08:57 PM

Just wanted to say that I recently picked up a PB12+2 and think it is an awesome piece of equipment! I've tried the sub in many locations in my living room, but find that putting it right behind my listening position (couch in the corner of the room) gives me the most bang for the buck. I have the sub in the corner with the ports firing into the corner and my couch backed right up the the sub, against the front. This thing moves some serious air and makes movies 100x better than ever before!

Ron Stimpson

11-06-06, 11:49 PM

Sony Guy,

The "only" upgrade path for you is the NSD driver. Flanges, recesses and the actual performance parameters of our woofers/amps tend to paint you into a corner to a degree and we reluctantly hold the line on upgrades. You have to keep within the family.

So Plus customers have had a recent chance to upgrade the the latest generation (you guessed it) Plus woofer. The NSD woofers are what ISD based subs have to swap out if they want. Drop us a line if you want to check one out. Many many have gone out the door and have replaced perfectly good ISD woofers. None have come back, so I'd go out on a limb and say it's worth considering if you are looking for an additional kick (more power handling, more efficiency) with little risk. Drop us a line if you want to try one, takes about 20 min from start to finish.

Ron
SVS
rons@svsound.com

dirtraven1

11-07-06, 04:24 PM

I've seen several threads and info elsewhere about SVS's driver upgrade program to update a sub from the ISD to the NSD driver. However my question is, is it possible or would it be worth it to upgrade a current ISD driver sub to the "Plus" or "Ultra" driver?

I currently have a PB12-ISD. Can I/Should I upgrade the driver to a "Plus" or "Ultra" driver? or would cost, amp, or other factors make this a bad idea?

My PB12-ISD is great, just always looking for more oomph! :) Thanks

I upgraded to the NSD when they had the pre-order offer. Let me tell you in my opinion it is a very noticiable difference in oooomph. The low end definitely hits harder with the new NSD driver over the previous ISD. My only dissapointment was that the new NSD upgrade didn't have that nice rubber wrap around the driver like it originally came with that only fits the ISD. But that's just cosmetics.

Ron Stimpson

11-08-06, 02:26 PM

"My only dissapointment was that the new NSD upgrade didn't have that nice rubber wrap around the driver like it originally came with that only fits the ISD. But that's just cosmetics. "

Dirtraven,

Exactly, though while we finally caught up with upgrade woofer demand we pushed hard on a custom wrap-around gasket for the NSD basket. Drop us a line if you want one (it is or will be soon stocked full in our Ohio factory. The new PB12-NSD is already using a version of it).

But as you noted, once installed it's not like the woofer on any of our downfiring subs will ever see the light of day.

Glad you liked the NSD woofer. There's a small team of people working in two locations that are pretty proud of that driver (even if he was never expected to be the nicest looking kid in school ;^).

Ron
SVS

bgillyjcu

11-10-06, 09:44 AM

Why should I consider a PB-12NSD over a 20-39PCI?

Or Visa Versa....Why the 20-39PCI over the PB-12NSD?

ransac

11-10-06, 03:17 PM

Why should I consider a PB-12NSD over a 20-39PCI?

Or Visa Versa....Why the 20-39PCI over the PB-12NSD?

PB12:
slightly lower tune (18Hz Vs 20Hz)
lower profile (21" Vs 39")
slightly higher watts (325W Vs 320W)
more comfortable (you can sit on it) :)

20-39:
smaller footprint (16" Vs 18"x25")
easier to move
different look (conversation piece)
more lovable (you can hug it) :)

Other than this, not much difference between the two.

gotchaforce

11-10-06, 04:16 PM

would you guys say the PB10NSD is more musical than the PB12NSD simply because the sub is only 10"???

or should i just go with the PB12NSD if i have the funds?

Nick250

11-11-06, 01:40 AM

would you guys say the PB10NSD is more musical than the PB12NSD simply because the sub is only 10"???
or should i just go with the PB12NSD if i have the funds?

I asked SVS about that a while back they said that one is not more musical than the other. I have heard neither however and wonder if one might be more subjectively pleasing to one's ears than the other.

Nick

WolfsBane

11-11-06, 10:47 AM

The new NSD drivers are very good for their price range. Pretty tight for music, though location within the room will factor considerably in this criteria, (as it will with any driver).

SonyWS520Guy

11-11-06, 07:52 PM

Ron,

Thanks for the quick answer. I am very happy with my current PB12-ISD, but who isn't always looking for a little more. And with the excellent customer service I've gotten and also the opportunity to ask questions directly with someone in the know on here SVS definitely has a customer for life.

I may think about making an NSD driver upgrade a Christmas present to myself.

Keep up the good work! :cool:

Sony Guy,

The "only" upgrade path for you is the NSD driver. Flanges, recesses and the actual performance parameters of our woofers/amps tend to paint you into a corner to a degree and we reluctantly hold the line on upgrades. You have to keep within the family.

So Plus customers have had a recent chance to upgrade the the latest generation (you guessed it) Plus woofer. The NSD woofers are what ISD based subs have to swap out if they want. Drop us a line if you want to check one out. Many many have gone out the door and have replaced perfectly good ISD woofers. None have come back, so I'd go out on a limb and say it's worth considering if you are looking for an additional kick (more power handling, more efficiency) with little risk. Drop us a line if you want to try one, takes about 20 min from start to finish.

Ron
SVS
rons@svsound.com

bd8653

11-12-06, 07:20 PM

AHHHHH when are the mid towers coming out from SVS? I see the "early '07" but I wonder if I can really wait that long. Is SVS gonna send some out for review again? Done by another site I know, but the idea to have them out for review with so many audio enthusiast using the forums was (is) a terrific idea. With a very positive outcome- People couldn't help comparing them to their multi-thousand dollar systems beyond the league of the SBS-01 price point.
I can not wait to get the mid system and brag about it to my radio audience!

bgillyjcu

11-12-06, 08:34 PM

Check out my thread about getting a new SVS sub........i could use some input! Thanks

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8881380#post8881380

Schwingding

11-13-06, 08:41 AM

I've had my new PB 12 + for going on a month now I suppose.

I can't find settings that both please me and keep the thing from bottoming out on very low HT scenes. For the record, I am not a bass hound, nor do I listen very loud - typically the highest SPLs I see during movie playback are in the 90-100 range, average is 60's.

The gain is turned up approximately 1/3 of the way. After the AVR does its auto setup I have further backed down the LFE channel by - 2.5db.

Examples of scenes that make this sub bottom out - the rocketship ignition/take off from the Incredibles. King Kong landing on the ground in the scene where he defeats the final T-Rex. The opening scene from "Attack of the Clones" where the ship explodes.

I am generally thrilled by this piece of equipment. It does things like I never imagined. If I trim the config down to the point where these scenes do not cause bottoming, then I generally have little or no sub output in the more moderate low frequency range.

I have the sub set to the 20 hz tune. When I alter it to 16Hz or the 12Hz tune, the bottoming out effect is decreased, but not totally eliminated.

I can't even imagine what anyone would need the gain levels above 1/2 way for on this sub with it bottoming out at 1/3 gain.

I don't think my sub is broken in any way, but let me tell ya, it really takes away from those intense scenes when it suddenly sounds like your sub is exploding.

Your help appreciated.

Edit, I should say that other "bass impressive" scenes, like the Darla/glass tap scene from Nemo, do nothing other than make me grin from ear to ear. Same with the explosions in U571. Go figure.

TJEli

11-13-06, 09:50 AM

mojomike

11-13-06, 09:56 AM

You may need a second PB12+.

Schwingding

11-13-06, 09:58 AM

Are you certain that you have your subsonic filter knob set to 20hz? I find it interesting that 16hz and 12hz tune reduce what you are experiencing. If you are doing everything correctly, it sounds to me like the 20hz eq and filter setting is messed up or not working at all.

-EliEli, thanks for the response. I could not be more certain that yes, the filter is set to 20Hz and there are no plugs in the ports. The filter has 4 settings 25, 20, 16, and 12Hz.

rockemsockem

11-13-06, 10:20 AM

Sdiver2489

11-13-06, 11:53 AM

Is your dynamic range compression turned on on your receiver?

I know on my Yamaha, there is a MAX, STD, and MIN setting, and normally I watch movies in STD mode, to not wake my daughter, but I know on King Kong that the soundtrack is very dynamic, and I have to change it to MAX to get the real effect.

I think it has something to do with the mixing of the movie.

If you turn it on Max you are LIMITING your dynamic range the most. Turn it off to get the full dynamic range.

EDIT: As I reread your post I think you knew that

rakster

11-13-06, 12:00 PM

Schwingding

11-13-06, 12:05 PM

Tom has already responded and is working with the add'l info I gave him. I'm confident that the problem can be solved between here and there. Thanks again, keep it coming.

David James

11-13-06, 12:21 PM

Tom has already responded and is working with the add'l info I gave him. I'm confident that the problem can be solved between here and there. Thanks again, keep it coming.Please report back on how things progress with Tom, I think many people would be interested in the results.

rockemsockem

11-13-06, 12:26 PM

If you turn it on Max you are LIMITING your dynamic range the most. Turn it off to get the full dynamic range.

EDIT: As I reread your post I think you knew that

Sorry, I forgot to mention, the Yammie works backwards. MIN is for the smallest rooms or listening at low volumes, STD is...well, Standard, and MAX is for large rooms and/or dynamic soundtracks.

Most of the time STD is fine, but like I said, some movies I have to switch to MAX, and King Kong was one of them. Once I did, I couldn't hear the thunderstorm that was going on outside at the time. ;)

Ron Temple

11-13-06, 03:05 PM

Shwingding,

Are you getting the clacking sound? The reason I ask is the rocket scene has a second or two of what sounds ugly, but is not bottoming. I can't remember about the others you've talked about. I've demoed that scene at 112 dbs on my Plus without issue. I've seen 114 on WOTW Ch. 5. My rooms only 2000 cube but opens to another 5000 and I've never bottomed. Normal playback is 90 - 100 dbs.

I'm sure Tom will work this out for you... :)

Schwingding

11-13-06, 03:13 PM

I describe the sound as "blap, blap, rubble, groan, blap" - most definitely a "oh thats not good" sound. Definitley not something embedded in a soundtrack to be audible. We'll work it out I'm certain. At the moment looks as if I'm going to wind up with a Plus/2. The initial calculations that led to the sizing might have been a bit optimistic. Glad I kept the box! Gee, too bad, I need a bigger sub... (maybe)

Russdawg

11-14-06, 12:00 AM

I've got an PB12-Plus/2, very hard to get it to bottom out unless VERY high volume or gain over 1/2 with high volume. At any tune-- 16, 20, or 25 Hz. I'd send SVS an email. Ron always responds to my questions immediately.

I run (2) of the PB12/2's in a room approx 27x32 with 9 foot ceilings and mine never bottom out. If I crank it way up the house feels like it's getting ready to blow up :D but none of the stuff the OP is reporting.

Schwingding

11-14-06, 08:13 AM

Here is some new/more info for you. Last evening I sat down with my SPL and Rives test tones CD. I re-calibrated the system - the sub was running 3-4db hot initially. I set it back in level with the others, then started playback of scenes that had made it bottom. No bottoming, but with a great loss of bass impact through the entire range of response. (almost a complete loss of mid range bass). I then turned down the LFE line level to -10 and recalibrated the sub - had to turn the gain up on the sub accordingly. Tested again. Improved, but to get to a bass level that makes me happy in the bass mid range, I have to add about 5db, and then it bottoms out on those intense scenes.

This makes me think that the sub just can't keep up with the room, (3500 cu. ft.) and that if I can get 5db or so more out of a Plus/2, it would be just the ticket. I'm certain the concrete floor plays a major part here, as when I moved the smaller Velodyne out of the basement and upstairs onto the wood floor - it was a completely different machine.

The SVS guys have made me a very reasonable offer for a Plus/2 that I aim to accept.

TJEli

11-14-06, 09:07 AM

Ron Stimpson

11-14-06, 11:32 AM

IM,

Any sub has got dynamic limits, and I think you found yours, as good as a single PB12-Plus might be. Hindsight being what it is, a Plus/2 would have been the better tool for your job from the get go. More proof that the Sales team only gets it right 99% of the time ;^). But as you noted, we're poised to pull a swap that'll get you closer to the headroom capacity you clearly need.

Of course you are as likely as not going to start and wonder about what dual Plus/2 subs would be like, and so on. We'll cross that bridge later though! Let us know how your current sub's bigger brother fares in the audition.

Ron "Everything in moderation, including moderation" Stimpson
SVS

Schwingding

11-14-06, 11:43 AM

Thank you Ron. You and your team have been very nice and pleasant to work with, and obviously more concerned with making a happy customer than anything else. I LOVE the sub you have currently placed in my house, I get ear to ear grins from it. It is only this tiny little aspect that I'm working on fixing, but other than that - class act, superb product. Will recommend your stuff over and over. Not quite ready to pop the clutch on duals, but as you stated, I'll get there sooner or later.