Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. [Text View] - Page 3

Macfan424

11-20-06, 12:11 PM

As I mentioned in my reply to your PM, you are not likely to find a receiver with a amplified subwoofer output, so you'll still need an amp for your CS.

Since 300w is about what SVS uses on their amplified versions of these subs, it's probably optimal.

While less than ideal, you probably could get by with less in a small room. Your maximum output would to down about 3bB with 150w, 6dB with 75w. Looking at it another way, your sub will sound half as loud using 30 watts as using 300.

More power is always better, though. The problem an undersized amp is that you run the risk of overdriving it when you encounter sudden peaks, like a loud explosion. This could possibly result in damage to the amp or (less likely) sub, although it is more dangerous with full range speakers because it's usually the tweeter that is destroyed by amplifier clipping. This risk is minimal if you don't play your system loud, but it does exist. You'll have to judge for yourself if it is worth taking.

For what it's worth, my old, inefficient, sealed M&K passive sub rarely draws 10 watts (my amp has power meters) while playing at moderately loud levels (about 95dB peaks). I never seemed to be pushing it when using a 130w receiver. Still, I feel better having a good quality 200w available, as I do now. (Remember, cheap receivers/amps usually overstate their power capabilities, expecially at low [under 40Hz] frequencies.)

salehdidit

11-20-06, 01:14 PM

Do not do it that way. Trust me

Get a dedicated amp for the sub and a reciever for the speakers.

You can royally mess things up if you try to do it the "cheap" and "easy" way.

Underpowering a sub is possibly the WORST thing you can do. It will sound like crap and you will overdrive the sub and the recievers amp will work way to hard to power it.

Its rated 300watts because it needs 300watts. You wouldn't put 50 octane gas in your car would you? Sure it would run...for a little.....but you know what would happen!

If you want a Reciever at a GREAT deal go to best buy.com look up the pioneer 516. It is on sale PLUS they are offering a $100 Rebate!!!!!!

It is seriously an amazing deal for a high quality budget reciever!
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?ref=39&ref=39&loc=01&loc=01&id=1138083770528&skuid=7694202&type=product

Thanks for the info. I guess getting one from PE seems to be the way to go.

Regarding the receiver, I've read negative reviews at FatWallet (where I originally found this deal). I almost bit, but decided I'd spend a little more for a receiver. Is the Onkyo TX-SR503 a better buy?

salehdidit

11-20-06, 01:20 PM

Ron Temple

11-20-06, 01:51 PM

A friend of mine uses a Rhythmic 350w plate amp on his 15 inch Tempest sono with great results. I think it even has a variable HPF. His is tuned to 17hz. I know it's in you budget. I'm just not sure where to find it. I'll ask and get back to you.

bgillyjcu

11-20-06, 03:05 PM

The Dayton Plate amps or Bash Amps would also work very very well for you.

www.partsexpress.com

300 Watt Bash Amp for only $105
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-750

or
240Watt Dayton Amp for only $99
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-805

Personally, that Bash amp is PERFECT for what you need

Macfan424

11-20-06, 03:15 PM

Thanks again for the useful information. I presume any of these (http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?Webpage_ID=3&CAT_ID=43&ObjectGroup_ID=505)rated above 250W (and ~$100) would suffice? At the upper end of my budget, would this (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-601) have enough power to drive the sub...

You guys have been tremendously helpful! I'm sorry for dragging this so long... I just don't want things to blow up :)

Response delayed because the server was not playing nice with my computer. By now others have answered, but since I've already pecked out a reply, I'll post it anyway, even if redundant :rolleyes: :

As I mentioned in my PM, the plate amps could be made to work with a little effort. The 300 watt BASH model is comparable to the one SVS uses in the PCi (although the SVS version is supposed to be specifically tuned to the sub).

The AudioSource is similar to the 200 watt version I use, and would probably be satisfactory for you as well. The one you referenced is sometimes available at uBid for well under $100, but those are listed as "reconditioned." Buying from someone as reliable as PE is worth something extra.

salehdidit

11-20-06, 06:53 PM

Response delayed because the server was not playing nice with my computer. By now others have answered, but since I've already pecked out a reply, I'll post it anyway, even if redundant :rolleyes: :

As I mentioned in my PM, the plate amps could be made to work with a little effort. The 300 watt BASH model is comparable to the one SVS uses in the PCi (although the SVS version is supposed to be specifically tuned to the sub).

The AudioSource is similar to the 200 watt version I use, and would probably be satisfactory for you as well. The one you referenced is sometimes available at uBid for well under $100, but those are listed as "reconditioned." Buying from someone as reliable as PE is worth something extra.

Thanks for the info. It seems the BASH amp is then the way to go. I guess I'll have to accept wires sticking out and such, but given that it'll be tucked into a corner, it shouldn't pose much of a problem. Perhaps when I build stands I can make a little box for it.

Thank you all for your most helpful suggestions and information!

bgillyjcu

11-20-06, 07:27 PM

I think you are making a very wise choice with that Bash amp. LIke you said, a little project down the road making a box for the amp is a simple fix to have a GREAT amp match. SVS uses Bash amps in all their subs, so it makes sense to get the BASH if you can.

Good luck!

Ron Temple

11-20-06, 08:33 PM

Here's a link to the Rhythmic plate amps...

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/nonservo_product.htm

eightninesuited

11-20-06, 08:36 PM

In the Sub world, is bigger always better?

I'm looking at a 16-46 CS Plus and 20-39 CS Plus. My room is about medium size. The 16-46 is $100 more to me. I don't mind paying the extra if it will be of benefit. Any suggestions?

ransac

11-20-06, 08:39 PM

I posted the following in your other thread:

You sort of answered your own question. For more depth, get the 16-46. It is 7" taller but can be tuned down to 12Hz.

What are you going to power this with?

I don't see the CS subs on the SonicBoom site. In the US they are only $50 apart.

eightninesuited

11-20-06, 09:43 PM

Samson S1000. It comes with the Sub. I'll sell my Velodyne DPS 12 to finance some of the cost. So 16-46 is the one to get, no question?

TJEli

11-20-06, 09:52 PM

Samson S1000. It comes with the Sub. I'll sell my Velodyne DPS 12 to finance some of the cost. So 16-46 is the one to get, no question?

You get lower tuning but you also give up 2-3db of output. I myself prefer the 20-39s.

-Eli

eightninesuited

11-20-06, 10:00 PM

You get lower tuning but you also give up 2-3db of output. I myself prefer the 20-39s.

-Eli

That's the thing. I can't decide.... :confused:

My system is 70% movies/tv and 30% music. My musical preference is electronic and trance.

bgillyjcu

11-20-06, 10:15 PM

20-39 is my vote.....

I just got a pb-12nsd and they said it is the same thing........if it is.......trust me you don't need LOWER than this!!!!!

so you know.....we should pick a place to post....cause I also posted in your other thread.....

ransac

11-20-06, 10:29 PM

bgillyjcu

11-20-06, 10:42 PM

I really think with his room size that the 20-39 is going to hit as low as 17hz

How much content is there that is actually that low? .001% LOL

Like Ransac said.......either one is going to blow you out of the water when you are watching a movie. You cannot go wrong, so just pick one and be happy and don't second guess yourself!

Good luck!!

ransac

11-20-06, 10:47 PM

Samson S1000. It comes with the Sub. I'll sell my Velodyne DPS 12 to finance some of the cost. So 16-46 is the one to get, no question?
Am I missing something? Unless SonciBoom has a package, I don't see where the Sampson Amp comes with the sub. Can you explain where you got that idea?

eightninesuited

11-20-06, 10:49 PM

Am I missing something? Unless SonciBoom has a package, I don't see where the Sampson Amp comes with the sub. Can you explain where you got that idea?

It's a local sale.

salehdidit

11-20-06, 11:13 PM

salehdidit

11-20-06, 11:26 PM

Here's a link to the Rhythmic plate amps...

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/nonservo_product.htm

Now I'm really confused. This looks very good, but is it better or much better than the BASH? Also, are there cheaper MOSFET amps in the market? or maybe I should stop and just buy something already!

BASH or Rhythmic... *sigh*

Ron Temple

11-21-06, 03:05 AM

Now I'm really confused. This looks very good, but is it better or much better than the BASH? Also, are there cheaper MOSFET amps in the market? or maybe I should stop and just buy something already!

BASH or Rhythmic... *sigh*I'd contact both Rhytmic and PE and ask if the amps have a selectable high pass filter. I'm pretty sure the Rhythmic does. This protects the driver from over excursion. The Bash amps SVS uses have this feature built in.

Schwingding

11-21-06, 08:22 AM

The note below was sent to SVS this morning, thanking them for helping me with my PB12+ issue that was discussed here a week or so ago (I can't seem to find the original thread anymore?).

I had a good laugh when unpacking my new PB12/2 as I had previously thought the PB12+ was big. This thing is huge!

I want to publicly thank Ron, Tom, and Erik for their excellent support.
--------------------------------------------------------
Hi guys,

The PB12/2 arrived yesterday. Firstly, it is finished absoutely stunningly. Any expensive furniture maker would be proud of that finish.

HOLY CRAP DOES THAT THING PUT OUT SOME BASS.

I turned off the existing PB12+ while installing the new /2. As directed, I calibrated it inline with the SPLs from my other speakers, while starting with the gain on the sub between 1/3 and 1/2 way. I used the 20Hz tune for initial setup.

Started out by immediately playing the scenes that was stressing out the PB12+ and grinned from ear to ear - no problems at all. BUT THE BASS! The room is more full of sound, and I have a harder time hearing where the sound originates - a good thing.

So then I turned the other sub back on and recalibrated with both on - this required dropping the input signal by almost 8db on the receiver. Then I started playback again, SWEET! But that smaller sub still has the same trouble during those lowest of low scenes. This makes me think there might actually be something wrong with that sub.

I then moved to other material - music, etc... and had a superb time playing with my new toys. No troubles at all with the older sub until I play those few movie scenes previously identified, so I stuck to music and was in blissful low frequency heaven. I found a bunch of new room problems, now the drywall itself is making noise. Seeing as how there was so much effortless bass being produced, I figured I'd move the subs both to the 16Hz tune, and that was achieved with apparently zero loss of higher end in my room and at my sound levels.

I'm going to send that PB12+ back to have it checked out, but I'm wondering if you'll take it as an exchange on a 2nd PB12/2? (really)

Thanks again for your great support. This PB12/2 is frankly, unbelievable. The two together achieved some SPLs that I found a little disturbing when I was really working them out. I could swear that I heard them laugh at me when I wondered if they could go louder.

Mike

Macfan424

11-21-06, 11:32 AM

You don't lose SPL if you keep the 16-46 in it's native 16Hz tune. You just get 4Hz lower tuning. If you do put it in the 12Hz tune, you do lose some gain. In your room, I don't think you will need the extra headroom. The 20-39 will be low enough in almost all cases, but for the few instances where source really hits the lower frequencies, the 16-46 will be able to chart those depths. But either one is a good choice.
I second all of that.

I have a 16-46 in a medium sized 2400 cu. ft. room, and it has more than enough headroom for me. I originally was bound and determined to use the 12Hz tune, but discovered to my surprise that I liked the native 16Hz tune better. (So much for preconceived notions!)

The guys at SVS seemed to lean toward the 20-39, but I'm happy I went with the 16-46. It just makes me feel good to know it will go as deep as I'll ever want. I've never tested lower frequencies, so I don't know it's lower limit, but it doesn't drop off a bit at 15Hz in my room. No doubt there is usable output at 10Hz (not that there is much to reproduce down there).

But, as ransac said, you won't go wrong with either.

Macfan424

11-21-06, 11:41 AM

... or maybe I should stop and just buy something already!
Get's my vote! :D

Seriously, they are both excellent. You won't be disappointed with either.

eightninesuited

11-21-06, 03:40 PM

I second all of that.

I have a 16-46 in a medium sized 2400 cu. ft. room, and it has more than enough headroom for me. I originally was bound and determined to use the 12Hz tune, but discovered to my surprise that I liked the native 16Hz tune better. (So much for preconceived notions!)

The guys at SVS seemed to lean toward the 20-39, but I'm happy I went with the 16-46. It just makes me feel good to know it will go as deep as I'll ever want. I've never tested lower frequencies, so I don't know it's lower limit, but it doesn't drop off a bit at 15Hz in my room. No doubt there is usable output at 10Hz (not that there is much to reproduce down there).

But, as ransac said, you won't go wrong with either.

I read somewhere on Audioholics that both SVS owners and SVS themselves favor the 20-39 since the 16-46 loses "mid bass" or something. Damn, I can't make up my mind!!! Back and forth...... :confused:

My setup will not be cranked to reference levels or anything. I usually watch everthing around -10. I just want cleaner, deeper, louder bass than what my Velo DPS12 does.

ransac

11-21-06, 04:04 PM

I read somewhere on Audioholics that both SVS owners and SVS themselves favor the 20-39 since the 16-46 loses "mid bass" or something. Damn, I can't make up my mind!!! Back and forth...... :confused:

My setup will not be cranked to reference levels or anything. I usually watch everthing around -10. I just want cleaner, deeper, louder bass than what my Velo DPS12 does.
Best thing to do now is to contact SVS sales and ask them for a recommendation based on your room, your listening preferences, and what you want to accomplish in depth and overall volume. You can find the email address on their web site.

bgillyjcu

11-21-06, 04:07 PM

Randy is right.

Erik knows his stuff. He helped me out. They are a company that prides themselves on getting it right! They will only sell you what they truly believe is 100% the best fit for your room and budget!

(I bet they say 20-39 though!) lol

Macfan424

11-22-06, 11:28 AM

I totally agree with the two preceding posts. Contact SVS and give them all the pertinent facts. They'll give you good advice as they want you to be satisfied.

And I'd bet on the 20-39 recommendation,too, because that's where Ron steered me. The primary reason, as you mentioned, is increased headroom "where most bass is."

I mentioned my satisfaction with the 16-46 only to point out that it has plenty of headroom for me (and many others). But the biggest motivation for me to upgrade in the first place was to get the deepest bass response possible, so, in my head, I "needed" the 16-46 and would have always wondered whether I was missing something without it. Rightly or wrongly, I couldn't be talked out of it. :rolleyes:

"Normal" people don't have that problem :o, as I'd bet the 20-39 outsells it's larger teammate by a substantial margin.

ransac

11-22-06, 11:46 AM

I agree the 20-39 is more popular, not because of headroom, but because of the height of the 16-46. If it was maybe a 16-42 it might be more widely accepted.

Macfan424

11-22-06, 11:57 AM

No doubt the height is a factor for some, but Ron still seemed to favor the 20-39 even when I let him know that it would not have mattered to me if the larger version was 60" tall.

Ron Temple

11-22-06, 03:45 PM

eightninesuited

11-22-06, 04:01 PM

I think I'll go with the 20-39. Thanks guys. I must say I'm really pleased with the responses. It's not often you ask a question and get quality answers and suggestions like this.

2jzgte

11-22-06, 04:13 PM

Hi,

My Audiosource SW15 seems like it just died so now I've started shopping for some new hardware.

I have Infinity Kappa 8's as mains. I used the SW15 for movies and music. With regards to music, the Kappa 8's don't really carry bass that well beyond the main listening area. It may be a result of the open ended listening area in conjunction with the wood floors. The room size is 19x13 with one end of the room being open to a hallway and entryway.

I know one of the first questions will be what do you want to spend but I'd rather know what it takes get the same bass levels as the SW15 albeit cleaner and tighter.

Any pointers in the right direction are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Roger

Big Bri

11-22-06, 05:40 PM

eightninesuited

11-23-06, 12:03 PM

20hz tune still gets you down to 16hz usable in most rooms and the midbass dynamics are a bit livlier. The 20-39 is a bit louder, just as the 25-31 is louder still. The 20-39 is more popular because it's the best of both worlds, but if you really want to troll the bottom the 16-46 is it.

Thanks Ron. The reason I was so conflicted was because I will be moving soon to my new house and I really have no idea where I'm going to have my theater room. Probably an upstairs bedroom.

Since the 20-39 CS+ is passive, and I'll be running it with a Samson S1000 amp (500w x2), any recommendations regarding setup? I've never used a passive sub before and really have no idea what to expect. As you know, finding a used SVS up here in Canada is pretty difficult.

Ron Temple

11-23-06, 02:23 PM

The Sampson will be fine, bridged it will be awesome. 500wpc is plenty for the Plus. Placement is totally room dependent. I have mine in a corner with decent results. A ton of room gain that allows me to fill a space that's really too large for the sub without compression or stress and while I have a couple of +/- 5 freqs, most are within +/- 2db from 16-90hz. Download some test tones, calibrate and play around with placement and phase to get the flattest response you can at the LP. You're going to love the sub.

ransac

11-23-06, 03:35 PM

I think I'll go with the 20-39. Thanks guys. I must say I'm really pleased with the responses. It's not often you ask a question and get quality answers and suggestions like this.
Where are you ordering your SVS sub from? I ask this just out of curiosity as I don't find the entire SVS line up shown on the SonicBoom web site and Canadians are asking about SVS subs quite frequently. Do you have to call them to get info/pricing on the rest of the SVS products? Or am I missing some links on the web site? Or are you buying used?

eightninesuited

11-23-06, 05:23 PM

It is used.

ryan8886

11-24-06, 06:04 PM

Hey! I've just spent the last 3 hours reading all these posts, trying to learn as much as I can.....so far I've succeeded in giving myself a headache! LOL! I'm looking for some setup advice.
I'm VERY new to this. I have a 25-31PCi on the way that will be used in a 23x19x7 room. I know this may not be a big enough boom for some of you "hardcores" out there but I have space and $$ issues. LOL! After a LOT of research and posts on another site, this seemed like the best bang for the buck.
I recently purchased a set of Athena F-2's for mains with their C-1 center. All this is running off an H/K AVR 330 in 5.1 config. I have yet to purchase an SPL meter (the H/K has EZ-set) but will be getting one this week, as it appears I'll need it to set up the sub. My old sub is an 8" from a previous HTIB. I've already ordered a new line for it from Blue Jeans Cable and some new 12ga speaker wire to replace the 16 ga. junk left over from the HTIB.
My question is where to set the crossovers? The Athena F-2's are tuned to 35Hz-20KHz at +/-3dbl and the C-1 to 60Hz.
The H/K allows me several differnt options (almost too many for someone as big a n00b as me! LOL!) I can go with "Large"/"Small" settings or set actual crossovers for each channel individually (40Hz-200Khz, I think). As far as bass management, I can choose "Global" or "Independent" (not sure of the difference) with settings for "LFE" and "LFE, LF+RF"
From what I've put up here, does it seem like I've managed to avoid most of the n00b mistakes? Hope so!
What is a good starting point for set-up (i.e. crossover, bass management)? Appreciate any help (and yes, I've already crawled around on the floor using the Athena's bass to find the best placement....of course...the sweet spot can't be used! LOL! But the #2 choice looks good..also with the #2 choice I have the option of corner loading or not)

Appreciate any input!

DrPainMD

11-24-06, 06:09 PM

Lots of helpfull tips on sub setup.

http://www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm#meter

http://www.svsound.com/manuals/pconlinemanual.pdf

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/loudspeakers/crawlingforbasssubwooferpl.php

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3418

http://www.robbroy.net/HT/SubwooferErrors.cfm

http://www.htexplained.com/index.htm

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/index.php

eightninesuited

11-27-06, 07:02 PM

jvgillow

11-27-06, 07:06 PM

What kind of amp is included with the CS+ sub? Some amps have auto on/off with an incoming subwoofer signal.

Passive isn't complicated, you just have to make sure the amp is well-suited for the sub.

eightninesuited

11-27-06, 09:00 PM

What kind of amp is included with the CS+ sub? Some amps have auto on/off with an incoming subwoofer signal.

Passive isn't complicated, you just have to make sure the amp is well-suited for the sub.

Samson S1000

jvgillow

11-27-06, 10:10 PM

If you can get that deal for a "couple hundred dollars" less than the PC+ version, I'd go for it. The Samson S1000 has enough power for a second CS+ (or CS-Ultra) subwoofer if you decide to add another one in the future.

It doesn't have the automatic turn-on feature, but turning it on/off with your receiver can be done manually (for free) or with a cheap auto switch device:

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?pid=00924031000&vertical=Sears&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

Or if you have a surge protector that has switched outlets with trigger input, you could plug in the amp to a switched outlet (that's what I'm doing for my power amp).

dweekie

11-28-06, 10:17 AM

Ok, I'm in a dillemma! I want to buy a sub that I'm going to be using for quite some time. I don't mind spending a little money. As I mentioned before, I found a 20-39 CS+ passive with an added amp included with the sub. However, I'm wondering if a powered sub would be a better choice for me. I like the fact that my current powered sub automatically shuts off if there's not signal from the receiver. Plus, the connections are so much simpler. I have ZERO experience with passive.

Now that there's Sonicboom in Canada carrying SVS, I'm having second thoughts about buying a passive sub and just going with a 20-39 PC+. The price difference is still a couple hundred dollars. :(

I got a S1000 amp and svs pc subwoofers recently without knowing anything about passive subwoofers. It's very easy and straightforward. It takes the sub-in from the receiver with subwoofer cable and a rca - phono adapter. It uses speaker wire output for the subwoofer. That's it; only an extra speaker wire and adapter versus a pc subwoofer. Plus, the amp handles 2 subwoofers, so you can add on another cs subwoofer with big savings. I'm sure the seller will include the adapter; if not, it's a 4 dollar part at any radio shack. If you're saving a couple hundred dollars, definitely go with the passive/amp combo. It'll save you even more money if you decide to add a second subwoofer in the future.

TJEli

11-28-06, 10:45 AM

Remember that going the CS route with an amp does not include a crossover or subsonic filter. This is not a huge deal as most HT processors have selectable crossovers in them.

You do need to take care when calibrating because lack of subsonic filter and running subs too hot can cause problems. You can also pick up an outboard eq to run before the amp that would give you a few of these options.

-Eli

salehdidit

11-28-06, 09:39 PM

I'd contact both Rhytmic and PE and ask if the amps have a selectable high pass filter. I'm pretty sure the Rhythmic does. This protects the driver from over excursion. The Bash amps SVS uses have this feature built in.

Sorry for the late response. I mailed PE and Rhythmic yesterday, and both replied saying the ams (BASH 300 and A250 respectively) do not have a high pass filter.

I was curious as to why I'd need a selectable high pass filter. If I will not be connecting any satellites to the amp and use it solely for bass amplification, then wouldn't the low pass crossover setting suffice? I think the high pass is set at 80Hz for the Rhythmic A250.

Regarding overexcursion and bottoming out, do you think the A250 has enough safety nets in place to prevent or sufficiently reduce the likelihood of such an occurrence? Is the default rumble filter setting of 12Hz enough?

Thanks for all your help, Ron. I really appreciate it!

Ron Temple

11-29-06, 02:50 AM

Sorry for the late response. I mailed PE and Rhythmic yesterday, and both replied saying the ams (BASH 300 and A250 respectively) do not have a high pass filter.

I was curious as to why I'd need a selectable high pass filter. If I will not be connecting any satellites to the amp and use it solely for bass amplification, then wouldn't the low pass crossover setting suffice? I think the high pass is set at 80Hz for the Rhythmic A250.

Regarding overexcursion and bottoming out, do you think the A250 has enough safety nets in place to prevent or sufficiently reduce the likelihood of such an occurrence? Is the default rumble filter setting of 12Hz enough?

Thanks for all your help, Ron. I really appreciate it!Sorry to mislead you...I was pretty sure that the Rhythmic had a selectible "subsonic" filter, not HPF. A buddy has the amp, I'll have to ask him. Anyway, both amps will work fine, just be careful on the really loud, low stuff.

salehdidit

11-29-06, 11:36 AM

Sorry to mislead you...I was pretty sure that the Rhythmic had a selectible "subsonic" filter, not HPF. A buddy has the amp, I'll have to ask him. Anyway, both amps will work fine, just be careful on the really loud, low stuff.

I've mailed both PE and Rhythmic asking if the amps i seek do have some adjustable subsonic filter. does the rumble filter on the rhythmic serve that purpose? the 20-39 does have the ability to go rather deep.

DrPainMD

11-29-06, 03:19 PM

bd8653

11-29-06, 03:24 PM

DrPainMD

11-29-06, 03:31 PM

No, when properly calibrated/setup you should not really be able to detect where the bass is coming from.

I've calibrated/setup as the manual states.

ransac

11-29-06, 03:42 PM

I have a question about my sub(25-31PCi) or subs in general. Should you be able to tell where the sound is coming from? I say this because I can tell it's coming from the location it's in(front left corner).

thanks
Probably a problem from corner loading. I sit only a few feet from my +/2 and run it hot, but I cannot localize the bass. In most cases it sounds like it is emanating from my mains and/or surrounds. Try moving it out of the corner.

Mitch G

11-29-06, 03:45 PM

I have a question about my sub(25-31PCi) or subs in general. Should you be able to tell where the sound is coming from? I say this because I can tell it's coming from the location it's in(front left corner).

thanks

What's your crossover setting on your receiver? If it's greater than 80Hz it's possible to start localizing the sound. (Some say they can localize at lower frequencies.)

My receiver is hard-coded at 90Hz and I sometimes localize my sub.

Mitch

DrPainMD

11-29-06, 03:47 PM

What's your crossover setting on your receiver? If it's greater than 80Hz it's possible to start localizing the sound. (Some say they can localize at lower frequencies.)

My receiver is hard-coded at 90Hz and I sometimes localize my sub.

Mitch
80

DrPainMD

11-29-06, 03:49 PM

Probably a problem from corner loading. I sit only a few feet from my +/2 and run it hot, but I cannot localize the bass. I most cases it sounds like it is emanating from my mains and/or surrounds. Try moving it out of the corner.

I've tried that, still sounds like its coming from the sub.

It's not like I can say all the sub noise is coming from the sub, it does fill the rest of the room and sound like its coming from the mains.

bd8653

11-29-06, 03:58 PM

I've calibrated/setup as the manual states.

Are you recognizing the subs location at all frequencies, or just the higher ones?
Have you tried the theory of placing the sub at the listening location, then crawling around on your hands and knees to find the best sound? I would try this for the experience of seeing you you can still tell where the sub is located- then maybe see about moving the sub to that spot if you can, or just adjusting it's current location and see if that makes a noticable difference.

Don't get sick- put something on where you know there will be some bass and turn off the other speakers (so you can not tell where the fronts or surrounds are), then pause the audio... spin around in a circle till you are no longer sure what direction you are facing and have someone else hit play (the reason for someone else is assuming you can't point your remote in just any direction and have it work (ie you have to have the remote facing the receiver- hence giving you some idea of what direction you are facing and therefore telling you where the sub is again).

Sometimes I feel my sub is localizing the sound, but it's really just because I do know where the sub is located or there is some sort of rattle coming from the sub or higher frequencies. If I close my eyes and just try to enjoy my music in an almost meditative state I don't get that localization at all. I am not using a high quality sub like SVS/HSU/etc, but mine is supposedly "thx" certified.

DrPainMD

11-29-06, 04:16 PM

Sometimes I feel my sub is localizing the sound, but it's really just because I do know where the sub is located or there is some sort of rattle coming from the sub or higher frequencies. If I close my eyes and just try to enjoy my music in an almost meditative state I don't get that localization at all. I am not using a high quality sub like SVS/HSU/etc, but mine is supposedly "thx" certified.

That might be my problem, I'm always looking at it when it's "doing it's thing" :p

I notice I hear it after a rumble dissipates, is that the higher frequencies?

Ron Temple

11-29-06, 05:51 PM

I've mailed both PE and Rhythmic asking if the amps i seek do have some adjustable subsonic filter. does the rumble filter on the rhythmic serve that purpose? the 20-39 does have the ability to go rather deep.

Here's a reply from my friend...

From their site:

A defeatable extension filter with separate frequency
and damping control. The extension filter can be
bypass with 14hz and high damping setting. Frequency
is adjustable between 14, 20 and 28hz.

-JG

So you're good to go...he uses 14hz to protect his 15" Tempest sonotube.

RT

salehdidit

11-29-06, 06:07 PM

Here's a reply from my friend...

From their site:

A defeatable extension filter with separate frequency
and damping control. The extension filter can be
bypass with 14hz and high damping setting. Frequency
is adjustable between 14, 20 and 28hz.

-JG

So you're good to go...he uses 14hz to protect his 15" Tempest sonotube.

RT

Ron,

Thank you for your reply. This is very helpful.

I checked the Rhythmik audio site again, and it seems that the above was taken from the A350 model. I can only afford the A250 model (unless it seems the 250 has features that are absolutely required).

The A250 has this feature to prevent bottoming out:
The default rumble filter is set at 12hz with Q=0.7. For vented box and infinite baffle configuration, one needs to modify this rumble filter to prevent over-excursion (or bottoming) of the woofer. This can be easily modified by soldering 2 resistors on the back of the preamplifier without (the hassle of) taking out the preamplifier board.

The A350 has the feature your friend forwarded:
A defeatable extension filter with separate frequency and damping control. The extension filter can be bypass with 14hz and high damping setting. Frequency is adjustable between 14, 20 and 28hz.

Is the A250 good enough?

PE said that theirs does have a subsonic filter, though it's not adjustable. It's set at 18Hz, and the CSR did not know if it was modifiable. I haven't heard from Rhythmik yet.

Thanks for all your help! I can't wait to order one and start setting things up (UPS left me an infonotice... I'll see how long it takes them to reroute it to my work address).

Ron Temple

11-29-06, 08:39 PM

jvgillow

11-29-06, 08:42 PM

First issue of the SVS online newsletter:

http://www.svsound.com/Newsletter/SVS_06_Winter.pdf

salehdidit

11-29-06, 10:32 PM

A 20-39 CS should get you usable down to 16hz in room, so a 12hz subsonic should protect it from over-excursion. The PE Bash amp set at 18hz is probably not a brick wall either. I wouldn't worry about it. Either one will be fine...get the best deal/warranty.

one order going out for the rhythmik... i'm still quite unsure about the power rating (250 vs 300) of the rhythmik. both have 1 year warranty, which i'll try to double with my credit card.

thanks for the advice! you've all been very very helpful!

DrPainMD

11-29-06, 10:35 PM

First issue of the SVS online newsletter:

http://www.svsound.com/Newsletter/SVS_06_Winter.pdf

Where did you find that?

jvgillow

11-29-06, 10:37 PM

I got an email from SVS, they sent one to all current owners probably.

ransac

11-29-06, 10:40 PM

Where did you find that?It came to me in an email from SVS today. Guess they just don't like you Dr. :)

DrPainMD

11-29-06, 10:47 PM

It came to me in an email from SVS today. Guess they just don't like you Dr. :)

Maybe because I bought mine from SonicBoomAudio up here in the frozen north! ;)

DrPainMD

11-29-06, 10:49 PM

It came to me in an email from SVS today. Guess they just don't like you Dr. :)

Maybe because I bought mine from SonicBoomAudio up here in the frozen north! ;)

Thats the thanks I get? I'm packing up my sub right now and shipping it back to them!

ransac

11-30-06, 12:26 AM

Maybe because I bought mine from SonicBoomAudio up here in the frozen north! ;)

Thats the thanks I get? I'm packing up my sub right now and shipping it back to them!Just move to the US. At least we get email here. :)

DrPainMD

11-30-06, 05:08 AM

Just move to the US. At least we get email here. :)

In that case, I can live without email.

TJEli

11-30-06, 09:25 AM

I got my newsletter yesterday.

Anyone that didn't get theirs is OUT!! :D

-Eli

salehdidit

11-30-06, 11:35 PM

Ok, it turns out I bought the 25-31CS :(

Does anyone know if there's a way to tune it to 22Hz (down from it's default 25Hz)? I know SVS used to offer this as a no-fee option, but since it's already with me, I don't think I can avail that now. I've been reading on the web of people stuffing foam down the port. Is there any other (or better) way of tuning it lower? I really had my heart set on the 20-39 and its deep bass... :(

bgillyjcu

12-01-06, 05:17 PM

is it possible to LOSE bass if you have your sub gain turned up to loud?

robbroy

12-01-06, 06:48 PM

robbroy

12-01-06, 06:50 PM

is it possible to LOSE bass if you have your sub gain turned up to loud?

I can't see how. If, however, you are turning up the gain and notice at a certain point it's not getting louder, then that's your clue you're running out of headroom, and pushing the sub any further would not be advised.

-Robb

salehdidit

12-01-06, 09:46 PM

I would email SVS and ask if it is possible for them to sell you the port used to tune it to 22 Hz. Do understand that you'll lose a bit of headroom by tuning it lower.

-Robb

good advice.

how would this compare with the box subs? say the pb10?

bgillyjcu

12-01-06, 09:50 PM

I can't see how. If, however, you are turning up the gain and notice at a certain point it's not getting louder, then that's your clue you're running out of headroom, and pushing the sub any further would not be advised.

-Robb

Well the back of my PB-12NSD has 9 little markers that go around the gain.

Starting with Position 1 being 0 gain, 5 being the middle, and 9 being MAX.

Right now I am running my sub at position 4 and my Reciever at -2db.

DrPainMD

12-01-06, 11:17 PM

Well the back of my PB-12NSD has 9 little markers that go around the gain.

Starting with Position 1 being 0 gain, 5 being the middle, and 9 being MAX.

Right now I am running my sub at position 4 and my Reciever at -2db.

http://www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm#meter

Proper calibration of your surround sound system, including your SVS subwoofer, is not only easy, it's downright critical! On the left is a Sound Pressure Level (SPL) meter; using one is akin to checking your car tires with an air pressure gauge. If you don't have one (the SPL meter that is), by all means stop reading this now and get one! Heck, click here and you can buy one direct from SVS at a low price of $44 without shipping costs (if ordered with your subwoofer). We prefer this model to the digital display SPL meter due to the analog version's ease in getting spot-on adjustments (though either can work well).

Why is calibration of the levels of your surround system so important? Well, think of it this way...in the old days you could just adjust the "Balance" knob on your stereo and get that center image (of the singer, or various instruments) "just right". Try to imagine doing that with 6 channels of a digital surround sound system for a minute! Get any of those channels out of balance by a few decibels (dBs... something all but certain without a meter) and the complex realism of the soundstage DVDs and the new high resolution music formats are capable of goes right out the window.

Start by playing your receiver's internal test tones so you have something to measure with your SPL meter. Or better yet, a calibration disk, like Ovation Software's "Avia" available from SVS. A test disk’s calibration tones ensure your entire signal path, from the DVD player to your speakers, is set correctly.

Make sure your receiver/processor master volume is set at "00 dB" or other easy to remember level, it will become your "reference level", one very close to that intended for home theaters by Dolby Labs. And finally, set your subwoofer amp’s volume control. Note here, if you have a "PC-type" subwoofer put the volume/gain knob to no more than 1/4th to 1/3rd of the way up. If it's a separate pro-type amp (like the Samson amps we sell) for a CS-type subwoofer, run the gain FULL UP (it's a different sort of amp design after all and expects to be set up this way). It’s a good idea to check the subwoofer level control of your receiver before you begin the test tones. Keep the receiver's subwoofer output control to about 25% up or lower than "0 dB" (or say -6dB given a typical receiver channel limits of –12 dB to +12 dB) . This will allow your amp to work with the cleanest signal possible from your receiver, while still leaving plenty of downward adjustment you can use from your viewing position (using the remote). As the tones start, alternating, speaker to speaker (watching your sound meter now) set each speaker’s volume to 75 dB or 85dB (depending on your tone source), using the receiver’s channel controls. Not all test disks or receivers are the same when it comes to calibration tones however, if using a test DVD like Video Essentials should allow you to calibrate reference level at 75dB. Ovation's "Avia" DVD is recorded at a higher level to improve signal to noise ratios during calibration, so you need to measure instead to 85dB for all channels if you use it and not Video Essentials (discussion below, regarding a "boost" to your LFE still applies but you simply add the bump you want above and beyond 85dB, vice 75dB).

What to set the sub to? You might find that a higher level, relative to your main speakers is preferable. In other words, set to a bit higher than 75dB, or 85dB, depending on your calibration tone source. Tastes vary and so do movie soundtracks, but your SV Subwoofer is capable of tremendous levels of low distortion, low frequency bass. Take advantage of this, especially if you like action movies with lots of ".1" channel low frequency effects (LFE). Keep in mind too that the human ear is relatively insensitive to low frequencies. This, coupled with the fact most folks don’t watch movies at Dolby Digital reference level (loud!), means tweaking the bass up a few dBs usually yields a better movie sound experience.

Many of us with SV Subwoofers run a +2 to +6dB setting on the LFE or ".1" channel, but much depends on your room's acoustics whether you have one or more subs, and your typical listening level. With a setting like this, the VE test tone will peak about 81-83dB for the subwoofer portion of the calibration run. Because the Radio Shack sound meter is relatively insensitive at very low frequencies you'll actually be set several dBs higher than what's read. Important Note: Use a "boost" like this only if you are watching at relatively modest levels. If you ever hear your sub bottom out (where the driver reaches its physical limits) you are set too high, at least for that movie and at that volume setting. Naturally customers with dual subs will enjoy far more "headroom" with regards to what is "too high".

As you continue to calibrate you’ll briefly need to rotate the sound meter level dial to the 80dB setting to get a good reading on the subwoofer if you go beyond the level of your main speakers as we recommend. Don’t forget that most modern surround sound receivers allow completely different subwoofer level settings, depending on the listening mode you are in. With "DVD" as your "source" use the above calibration routine. You may well find that "CD" (music) calls for a lower bass setting for the best balance in your home theater (try setting this by ear with music you are familiar with). The above is a guide, experiment!

Now if you got this far, and consider yourself an advanced user, you might want to delve a little deeper into the use of the SPL meter to flatten out response peaks in your room (using an external equalizer like we offer) or maybe just using one of the popular test disks out there to check and see just how well your subwoofer is performing. If so, you'll want to use a handy "compensation chart" to adjust the readings of your SPL meter. Its sensitivity down low is NOT uniform, but it's easy to make up for this slight flaw in this great too. This chart is ONLY good for the Radio Shack SPL meter pictured above. If your subwoofer seems to be measuring poorly with low frequencies, this chart is CRITICAL to making sure you know what's what.

More setup tips:

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3418

http://www.robbroy.net/HT/SubwooferErrors.cfm

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/loudspeakers/crawlingforbasssubwooferpl.php

bgillyjcu

12-01-06, 11:36 PM

I actually did that, but it had it at level 3, I like more bass, So I bumped it up to Level 4.

DrPainMD

12-01-06, 11:48 PM

I actually did that, but it had it at level 3, I like more bass, So I bumped it up to Level 4.

Conversation I had with SVS:

Me: What would be considered 1/4 or 1/3 the way up? There are 9 notches from Min to Max(all inclusive). What notch should it be for either setting?

SVS: Anything between the lowest setting and halfway (straight up on the dial) should work fine once you adjust the receiver’s bass level control accordingly. Most of our customers put the dial at about the “10 or 11-o-clock” position…that would be about ¼ or 1/3..:)

BrutalBodyShots

12-02-06, 02:58 AM

I have my dial on my SVS PB12+2 at about 1:00, or slightly above 1/2 way and my receiver sub gain is at -2 on a scale of -10 to +10. -2 is usually the highest I go; With some movies I go to -4 or -5 on the receiver. Doesn't 1:00 or slightly above half way on the subwoofer seem high? I don't really seem to be overdoing the bass... but then again I have yet to obtain a meter and actually test it. But that's what sounds good to me.

Schwingding

12-02-06, 08:25 AM

What started out as a single SVS PB12+ has ended with DUAL PB12/2s. The second /2 arrived yesterday.

The original PB12+ is on its way back to SVS. It was a marvelous machine but I do believe, now that I have had two more SVS subs, that my unit was defective. I also think it may have been a bit undersized for my room size and construction. The issue I had with it is that it would bottom out on the lowest of low movie scenes, way before it probably should have. I will acknowledge that I may have driven it hard, relatively speaking, for the big room (+3500 cu. ft), but the gain never went anywhere near 1/2 way and I never saw a db of more than 100.

The PB12+ was finished in cherry, and it was fine furniture grade. After discussions online and with SVS, we decided to give a PB12/2 a shot. The first PB12/2 that arrived was much larger than the PB12+, and had a rosewood veneer finish. Strikingly beautiful! I definitely found it preferable to the cherry, which was gorgeous. They were obviously finished by someone who knew what they were doing as they had been rubbed to a perfect sheen.

I ran both subs in dual fashion for about a week and still the original sub would bottom, even after adjusting the gain down to run as a dual.

Yesterday a second PB12/2 arrived. The rosewood finish option is no longer available. This didn't surprise me - that rosewood veneer they used is expensive stuff, I'm a furniture builder, btw. Replaced by something called "rosenut", which appears to also be a member of the rosewood family, but not nearly as dramatic. Since my two PB12/2 units were shipped only 2 weeks apart, I noticed that the newest one had a new and improved shipping container - a box inside a box.

The timing of the delivery was perfect, my wife is out of town and the shipping boxes are already in the attic. She'll never notice.

I turned off the existing sub and calibrated the 2nd one to match the first, then turned both on and adjusted the input level to match the original SPL.

Then I listend to the test tones with both subs on and one sub sounded much louder than the other in my listening position, even though the SPL meter read them as identical. (subs are on opposite sides of the seating area, near the front/mains). So I used the individual gains to even them out - is this the right way to go about this? (I don't know). Also got a boost on the SPL from the phase adjustment knob - first time I ever noticed that. BTW, I chose the 16Hz tune for both subs.

I then started rocking and rolling! Woohoo! I couldn't, not a chance, possibly tolerate what these babies could do if I ran them to their potential. No way. Not a hint of effort from either of them. I threw everything I could their way, and with Mrs. Schwingding gone, I threw it even louder. When Superman's craft arrives in the first couple of chapters of "returns" I actually worried for the house a bit.

Threw in the Blue Man Group "Complex" DVD-A and jacked that up, too. Grins and more grins. Did the same with everything I could think of until I got a headache. Possibly the best demo I found is Dr. Chesky's 5.1 surround show "Organs and Chimes", it will knock your socks off.

Am I happy? You bet your butt! Will I be wondering if I made good choices - nope. I'd never even have considered SVS if it wasn't for this forum. Thanks AVS. (and you guys at SVS, too)

bgillyjcu

12-02-06, 09:47 AM

Conversation I had with SVS:

Me: What would be considered 1/4 or 1/3 the way up? There are 9 notches from Min to Max(all inclusive). What notch should it be for either setting?

SVS: Anything between the lowest setting and halfway (straight up on the dial) should work fine once you adjust the receiver’s bass level control accordingly. Most of our customers put the dial at about the “10 or 11-o-clock” position…that would be about ¼ or 1/3..:)

So it sounds like I have this right where it should be!

Trust me the sound is VERY impressive.

Batman Begins was like a whole new movie on my new system compared to my old system.....there were rumbles and shakes that I never knew exsisted! (now I only wish I had 2!) Yes...I have that same sickness we all have.....always wanting MORE!

robbroy

12-02-06, 10:17 AM

good advice.

how would this compare with the box subs? say the pb10?

The PB10-NSD is tuned to around 18 Hz.

-Robb

WolfsBane

12-02-06, 10:37 AM

I believe the PB10-NSD is tuned to 20HZ. The PB12-NSD is tuned to 18 HZ and has a large flared port to keep those lows clean. Both have limiters at the lower end to help protect the driver.

swgiust

12-02-06, 11:21 AM

[QUOTE=Schwingding]What started out as a single SVS PB12+ has ended with DUAL PB12/2s. The second /2 arrived yesterday.

QUOTE]

All you guys are just going to cost me money. Been debating a second sub,
PB12-Ultra/2. Now I see all these people who have two and love them. Well
here goes another 2 grand!!!!!

Ron Temple

12-02-06, 01:44 PM

The timing of the delivery was perfect, my wife is out of town and the shipping boxes are already in the attic. She'll never notice.

:D :D :D

I like your style and practice the same technique. I hate it when the freight truck shows up and she's there and have to explain why my purchase was so important.

ddruker

12-03-06, 03:13 AM

I just joined the club as well - yesterday I picked up a slightly used PB12 Ultra/2 from a really nice guy who lives near Sacramento. The story is he built out his home theater on the second floor of his house near the bedrooms of his two young children - and now his home theater is getting turned into a playroom. Talk about ouch.

Initial impressions like everyone else here are "WOW" I demoed war of the worlds, U571 and the aquarium tapping scene in finding nemo - bass was just tremendous and the folks I had over to watch the UCLA - USC game were just blown away. It's just huge - but what comes out of it sounds and feels amazing.

So chalk up another delighted owner...

salehdidit

12-03-06, 01:50 PM

I've got a fairly good offer (to buy) for the PB12-ISD, and can also buy the 20-39CS+ (with a samson 1000 amp) for about twice the price. My room is about 20' x 18' x 8', so it's not terribly large. The theater area is about half the room (it leads to the kitchen area, which is included in the above measurement).

Which would be a better deal, considering the PB12 falls smack into my budget, while the 20-39 is about stretching it. Furthermore, I do want sub-20Hz frequencies too.

Thanks!

dhoganjr

12-03-06, 06:37 PM

salehdidit

12-03-06, 06:41 PM

I believe the PB10-NSD is tuned to 20HZ. The PB12-NSD is tuned to 18 HZ and has a large flared port to keep those lows clean. Both have limiters at the lower end to help protect the driver.

aaah, thanks. anyone know what the old pb12-isd's were tuned to?

ransac

12-03-06, 07:06 PM

aaah, thanks. anyone know what the old pb12-isd's were tuned to?22Hz

ransac

12-03-06, 07:14 PM

jvgillow

12-03-06, 07:21 PM

As most on the subwoofer forum can tell you, there's really not any such thing as overkill when it comes to subs :)

SVS can advise you as well if you email them.

salehdidit

12-03-06, 11:07 PM

22Hz

thanks! then I guess it's the 20-39 for me.

bbrc

12-03-06, 11:14 PM

I have 3500 cubic feet to fill i have enough to buy pb12nsd/2 or pb12plus.

What would be the best sub for my room?

ggunnell

12-03-06, 11:38 PM

A few facts and then a quick question:

My room is 13 x 16 with 8 foot ceilings and totally enclosed.

I'm looking into the cylinder subs due to the small footprint.

Definitely want something that goes down to 16 Hz, or lower.

So, is the 16-46 PC-Plus overkill for this size room versus the 16-46 PCi?

Thanks for your help!

You are fortunate, dhogan -- in 1664 closed cubic feet any SVS cylinder will work.
Since the 20-39 Plus subs are Tri-Ported you can select 20, 16, or 12 Hz tune.
The 16-46 cylinders go even deeper, but require more amplifier power to do so.
For this reason, if you choose the 16-46, I'd definately get the Plus version to get the greater output of the Plus driver and larger amp.
In that volume a 20-39 Plus in 16Hz tune should give you great performance IMO.

Be aware that prices are going up on the powered Plus subs on January 2.
The 20-39 Plus, $825 now, will be $899 after Jan 1.

ransac

12-03-06, 11:45 PM

thanks! then I guess it's the 20-39 for me.You should get 2 to 4 Hz lower in room than measured. So the PB12 could go lower, but then so will the 20-39. What prices are you getting on each?

Ron Temple

12-04-06, 03:27 AM

The 20-39 Plus, $825 now, will be $899 after Jan 1....and worth every penny. That's great info g...

dhoganjr

12-04-06, 08:05 AM

Prices going up? #$^%&*!!! Everytime I get serious about something, do some research, establish a budget, make a decision - guess what? The prices go up! I really believe this is part of a grand conspiracy against me and better sound!

Oh well...as Ron said, I'm sure it's still worth every penny.

OvalNut

12-04-06, 09:46 AM

In 1664 closed cubic feet I'd go with the 16-46 PC+, tune it to 12hz, calibrate it 5-6 db hot and never look back.

Tim

Head Shot

12-04-06, 02:35 PM

In 1664 closed cubic feet I'd go with the 16-46 PC+, tune it to 12hz, calibrate it 5-6 db hot and never look back.

Tim

Oh goodness, with that setting I'd also seriously advise to have velcro achors to anything loose in that room, including your favorite pet :D

dhoganjr

12-05-06, 09:31 AM

Hey, velcro's cheap and I'm not scared!

Thanks for the advice.

bbrc

12-05-06, 01:31 PM

Order today PB12-Plus/2 thank for your help will be getting it next week
can't wait:)

enigma001

12-05-06, 08:43 PM

im in the market for a sub and was wondering how 2 sb12's, in a stereo setup, would compare to a velodyne spl-1500r. any ideas?

five4.4

12-05-06, 08:56 PM

Order today PB12-Plus/2 thank for your help will be getting it next week
can't wait:)
Me too, I ordered the PB12-NSD today and a SPL meter to calibrate .
This is more or less my first educated audio gear purchase.
I really do hope that all the SVS worshiping isn't all hype and is well deserved.

Can't wait.

bbrc

12-05-06, 09:12 PM

Me too, I ordered the PB12-NSD today and a SPL meter to calibrate .
This is more or less my first educated audio gear purchase.
I really do hope that all the SVS worshiping isn't all hype and is well deserved.

Can't wait.

I really do hope that is not just hype to got avia and slp meter to.
Tell me what you think when you get your sub :)

ransac

12-05-06, 10:11 PM

I really do hope that is not just hype got avia and slp meter to.
Tell me what you think when you get your sub :)

I have the +/2. If you have the same experience I have had, you won't be disappointed. Once you start to crank it up, it will begin to frighten you. When you realize it can handle the high volume, that fear will turn into delight. Have fun and don't hold back. :( :confused: :) :eek: :D

bgillyjcu

12-05-06, 10:32 PM

mefromfl

12-08-06, 08:44 AM

bgillyjcu

12-08-06, 10:03 AM

hmm...that should be ok for your size room. What Volume are you listening to it at?

You state +1 for SW, 1/4 for Gain, and Phase 0. With those settings I would imagine that it shouldn't bottom out.

Schwingding

12-08-06, 10:06 AM

LOL...........

Ransac I love the line about learning not to fear it at HIGH VOLUMES.

It is such a true statement considering most of us come from subs that used to scare us with distortion or the fear of blowing...

Now that we have SVS subs we learn to really not worry about them and we let them do their job at even what most people would say are insane levels of listening.

Love my PB-12 and I'm already wondering what 2 would sound like........well I mean FEEL LIKE!!!!! HAHAHAHA (evil sinister laughing sound)

Completely true! I now actually fear for my house, but not my sub(s) - yes I can tell you what two PB12Plus/2 s sounds like - an earthquake! The other night I was demoing my system with the plane crash from Flight of the Phoenix. When the plane starts rolling in mid air and is being torn apart I realized I was more worried for the house than the subs, and laughed.

bgillyjcu

12-08-06, 10:47 AM

I commented in another thread about a possible addition in the next year of another SVS sub to go with my PB-12NSD.

Is it best to get another matching PB-12NSD? I've read where people have mismatching SVS subs and one sub tends to overpower the other one....

Like if I had a PB-12NSD paired with another PB-12NSD.

OR paird with one of the following.....

20-39 PC–Plus subwoofer or a PB12-Plus $899 group

OR if I really STEP UP....to the $1199 group
PB12-Plus/2
or
PB12-Ultra
or
PC-Ultra subwoofer

What do people think? Feel free to give pros and cons for each sub. I love to know what people think....especially if you have a PB-12NSD paired with one of the mentioned subs...

MugenPower

12-08-06, 08:02 PM

That's true! I have PB-12/plus 2. It really shakes the foundation of my house.

I have the +/2. If you have the same experience I have had, you won't be disappointed. Once you start to crank it up, it will begin to frighten you. When you realize it can handle the high volume, that fear will turn into delight. Have fun and don't hold back. :( :confused: :) :eek: :D

rockemsockem

12-08-06, 08:27 PM

Hi I have ask this in another thread and I just now found this thread I hope someone here can help.

I have a pb12-plus I have used spl meter to calibrate my speakers and sub. My sub level on the reciever is +1 now and the gain is set at 1/4 and the phase at 0. The reciever's xover is at 80hz and the sub xover is disable. I'm getting it bottom out on me at explosion screen, other scences sounds ok and music sounds good. My living room is 17x20, I have a pioneer elite 84 and for me to get the bottoming out to go away is to set my reciever bass peak level to +1. But it sounds funny like it won't output the explosion now anymore. Is my room too big? Or is my setup just wrong?

I would go ahead and contact SVS tech support. A PB12+ should not be bottoming out at all, so there must be something with it. They will be able to help you out better than we could.

mefromfl

12-09-06, 08:29 AM

I would go ahead and contact SVS tech support. A PB12+ should not be bottoming out at all, so there must be something with it. They will be able to help you out better than we could.

Don't seem like they want to do anything but offer me to upgrade to a pb12 plus/2, I feel they do not want to fix the current problem

bbrc

12-09-06, 08:59 AM

Don't seem like they want to do anything but offer me to upgrade to a pb12 plus/2, I feel they do not want to fix the current problem

What the size of you rour room 17' by 20' what is the height is it open
to other room kitchen hallway is it a close room ?

ggunnell

12-09-06, 09:09 AM

Don't seem like they want to do anything but offer me to upgrade to a pb12 plus/2, I feel they do not want to fix the current problem

Not sure there is a problem other than a large room with only one 12" speaker for bass :)

Rockem -- you can bottom an Ultra if you try

I tried a 20-39 Plus with the 12.2 driver in my very leaky 2600 cubic feet and it was not enough for me -- in your 2720 cubic feet (assuming an eight foot ceiling) I'd definately recommend two 12" drivers as a minimum for movie effects.

Although the PB12 NSD /2 would not bottom at the level you are using right now, you would not have much additional headroom. So I also would recommend the PB12 Plus /2.

Just like me, you tried a less expensive solution, it wasn't quite enough, and SVS is offering to upgrade you ... :)

ransac

12-09-06, 01:18 PM

Hi I have ask this in another thread and I just now found this thread I hope someone here can help.

I have a pb12-plus I have used spl meter to calibrate my speakers and sub. My sub level on the reciever is +1 now and the gain is set at 1/4 and the phase at 0. The reciever's xover is at 80hz and the sub xover is disable. I'm getting it bottom out on me at explosion screen, other scences sounds ok and music sounds good. My living room is 17x20, I have a pioneer elite 84 and for me to get the bottoming out to go away is to set my reciever bass peak level to +1. But it sounds funny like it won't output the explosion now anymore. Is my room too big? Or is my setup just wrong?I had a 20-39 PC+ in my 8000+cf room and it only bottomed when it reached 110db from a 6 foot measurement. How far are you from the sub when you take your calibration measurements? Try recalibrating, then measure from 2 meters away. Then measure from 2 meters on a passage that bottoms the sub. Then post your readings. Settings on the AVR don't mean much as they are just relative numbers.

What tuning do you have it set to (# of blocked ports) and what is the subsonic filter switch set to?

OvalNut

12-09-06, 02:15 PM

mefromfl

12-09-06, 03:48 PM

Please take the time to go through and check off each of the items on the list of Common Subwoofer Set-Up Errors at the following link, and reply back with your results.

Common Subwoofer Set-Up Errors by Edward J M (http://www.robbroy.net/HT/SubwooferErrors.cfm)

... there must be an echo in here. :confused:

Good luck,

Tim

6 LFE Channel (the ".1" in 5.1) is enabled (Pioneer MCACC). This is not the subwoofer channel.
7 LFE channel level is set to maximum (i.e., unattenuated) value.
8 THX (or any other) bass limiter circuit set to off/no.
9 Subwoofer pre-out level to -5 (on a scale of -10 to +10).

Can someone explain to me some of these settings? I have a pioneer elite.

I really don't understand #7 and #9

Macfan424

12-09-06, 05:02 PM

6 LFE Channel (the ".1" in 5.1) is enabled (Pioneer MCACC). This is not the subwoofer channel.
7 LFE channel level is set to maximum (i.e., unattenuated) value.
8 THX (or any other) bass limiter circuit set to off/no.
9 Subwoofer pre-out level to -5 (on a scale of -10 to +10).

Can someone explain to me some of these settings? I have a pioneer elite.

I really don't understand #7 and #9

Terminology may vary from model to model, however I'll use the terms that apply to my Pioneer 1015, which shares many characteristics with the Elite series, but not all.

6. His wording is not clear to me either, so I'll try a different approach. The Subwoofer channel (MCACC menu) must be set to "Yes," activating it. In the "Other Settings" menu, there is an LFE ATT submenu. If this is set to "LFE OFF," you'll get no sound from the LFE channel. (See 7.)

7. You should set LFE ATT to "0," which means no attenuation. This is the default.

8. My receiver does not have the option of changing THX bass parameters, so this would not apply. The only bass limiter I have is the LFE ATT mentioned above. If you have a THX submenu, you can check, but no doubt the default would be to disable any bass limiter.

9. -5 is a commonly recommended, but arbitrary starting point. The idea is to have some room for upward adjustment when you calibrate. It's best if your final calibrated pre-amp setting is 0 or less, but +1 or 2 won't do any harm. Use the subwoofer amp's volume control for the initial rough adjustment, so that the sub will approximately balance with the other speakers at -5 before running the MCACC. Most people boost the subwoofer pre-amp out setting again as a last step in their calibration process, winding up with their subs running 3-5dB hot.

OvalNut

12-09-06, 05:36 PM

Thanks Macfan, great explanation of the receiver setup components.

Turning our attention now to the DVD player, make sure of the following:

In The DVD Player:
1. Output set to bitstream (digital output via the digital coax or toslink) and PCM is not enabled. The AVR should be seeing a full DD/DTS signal.
2. Dolby DRC (aka Midnight Mode) circuit set to off/no.

Either of the above settings are very easy to have set incorrectly, and so doing will result in little or no LFE channel bass being output to the subwoofer.

Tim

stubeeef

12-09-06, 11:47 PM

All right, things are coming together and I will order by the end of the month to beat the price increases.

Basement room, approx 16.5 x 26.5 x 7.9 (wxlxh) = 3600 cuft
Floor is tile, there will be lots of rugs
Ceiling is a 3 dimensional drop ceiling over 1' from the rafters (room for air ducts)
2 walls have cinder block behind the drywall and both of those walls will eventually have 7' high cabinets.
I want to start with a SBS-01 7.1 system. I have sooo much $$ going into construction and other proj that this seems a great place to start. Will also probably pick up some Ascend 170's to compare (they are more expensive too).
So do I go with a cylinder or box?
20-39 or 12-nsd? or more?
Screen will be 110" 16x9 and seating 12' back. the surrounds will ceiling mount. there is an opening at the back right corner (when facing the screen) to stairs.
The freq chart of the PB seems to point me there vs the chart for the PC, but charts aren't ears.
Help plz.
I have not yet poised this to Eric, but will VERY soon.
AMP will probably be the Pio 84 after they fix the LFE issue. I will also use a panamax 5100 if that is an issue.

ransac

12-10-06, 01:20 AM

The PB12-NSD is tuned lower, but I think you will like the higher mid-bass of the 20-39. Based on your dimensions, you will have plenty of room on either side of the screen to place the taller cylinder without intruding on your viewing area.

At 3500cf, if you can extend your budget to the 20-39+ or PB12+ or PB12-NSD/2, that is where I would point you. The +/2 is probably too much of a reach and is probably too much sub for the SBS or smaller Ascends.

I too am looking at the Ascends, but the 340s instead. I want to wait for the SVS MTS line to come out, but I have one of my mains about to die and I don't know if I can wait for spring. If you do go with the SBS-01s, make sure you get a package price with the sub.

ggunnell

12-10-06, 09:10 AM

Stubeeef, if you can go up a little more, consider dual PB12-NSDs. Dual subs, one on each side of your screen, will even out room resonances. Ask Erik for a package price.

tdamocles

12-10-06, 09:22 AM

The freq chart of the PB seems to point me there vs the chart for the PC, but charts aren't ears.

Also, the charts aren't your room.

stubeeef

12-10-06, 02:45 PM

Ron Temple

12-10-06, 02:53 PM

Mitch G

12-10-06, 03:23 PM

stubeeef,

Not to stir up more confusion, Randy and gg offer great advice, but the single driver solution for the most output is the 25-31+. You might need it...have it tuned to 22hz. You'll still get sub 20hz extention.

or

buy one of your choice now and a 2nd later.

RT

Note: The 25-31 PC+ is able to be tuned to 20Hz with the provided port plug. So, you don't need to have SVS do any special tuning for you.

Mitch

ggunnell

12-10-06, 07:30 PM

Is there a better choice (in general) between the 16-46+ or the PB12-NSD/2? They are similarly priced.
Thanks for the inputs. I will probably email Eric soon (unless you have already read this Eric, then just jump in).

Well, for theatrical effects, the NSD/2 is going to hit harder, and many posters consider it and the Plus/2 to be SVSs best values.

If you ever develop a taste for the extension, the foundation, the 'voice', of lower tuned subs, the 16-46 is a great choice -- but with lesser output.

bbrc

12-13-06, 10:29 PM

Got my pb12+2 today sound good not calibrated yet will do it tomorrow.
I forgot yes its big i got it beside my klipsch rw10 it look like bookshelf speaker
compare to floorstander:)

dhoganjr

12-14-06, 11:51 AM

bgillyjcu

12-14-06, 11:55 AM

They are really fast about shipping. You'll have it next week I am sure.

You made the right move, by getting this sub you can down the gain just a little, making the amp and sub work a little less and you'll have even better results.

Good choice!

MKtheater

12-14-06, 12:04 PM

Has anyone here compared their PB12/plus/2 with the new JL audio or HSU ho with turbo?

ransac

12-14-06, 12:57 PM

I just overnighted a money order for a 20-39 PC-Plus to go into an enclosed room which is just a tad under 1700 cubic feet.

I was going to get the 20-39PCi, but just couldn't stop drooling over the Plus.

Please tell me I didn't buy too much subwoofer. I know you can't have too much, I just don't want it to overpower my room (Erik confirmed my thought that I could just turn down the gain).

Assuming they get the money order tomorrow, any idea when I can expect to see it in New Hampshire? Really looking forward to experiencing SVS bass!

Thanks.
Since you got the Plus in a small room, you will have the choice of tuning points without worrying about the reduced SPL. You will have to experiment with the tuning to see what sounds best to you.
I had the 20-39+ in a much larger space and it was great, just not quite enough for a large space. I did trade it in on a +/2, but you won't have that problem.

Enjoy.

ransac

12-14-06, 01:02 PM

Has anyone here compared their PB12/plus/2 with the new JL audio or HSU ho with turbo?You posted in a thread with some comparo info. That is the Official Craigsub rating thread. If you search through the F113 thread, you will see some comps there as well.

MKtheater

12-14-06, 02:37 PM

Yes, I want to see how many people have compared their subs and I thought an SVS thread would produce more comparisons. It really does not have to be just the JL audio, any high end sub for that matter. I am trying to justify an upgrade.

ggunnell

12-14-06, 03:43 PM

MK, since you have a good sub to listen to now, I'd wait until March/April and let all the new subs 'land'.... :)

MKtheater

12-14-06, 03:54 PM

That is what I will most likely do.

Kipp Jones

12-14-06, 05:30 PM

Has anyone here compared their PB12/plus/2 with the new JL audio or HSU ho with turbo?

I heard the JLs at CEDIA this year. They are very good subs but not as good as much of the hype you are seeing in this forum. Be wary of some of the "shootouts" other members like to refer to. Many of those who are obsessed with "shootouts" and those who sponsor these "shootouts" have agendas. :o :o :o

five4.4

12-14-06, 09:10 PM

I received my PB12-NSD this evening and all I can say is WOW!! Holy Sh*t!! :D :D

Forgive me for saying this but I think I might have bought too much subwoofer, if there is such a thing. ;)

And did I mention this thing is huge, and to beat the wife into submission she wanted me to return it. I told her she could move out if it's too much for her. :p

I ordered the SPL meter also but SVS is out of stock until Jan 07.
Will see if I can find one at a local radioshack, they look at me like i'm crazy when I ask them about it at one store. No one knows what it is.

sigs21

12-15-06, 12:07 AM

This is what SVS sent me in about 30 mins after sending them a mock up of my room.. Those guys are so quick...

I am going to get the PB-10nsd.. I would like to stay married..

From SVS

I like the subwoofer location in the right hand corner between the TV and the couch (148" meets 176").

The choice between the PB10-NSD and the PB12-NSD boils down to how loud you like to listen to DVDs. If your playback levels are moderate, the PB10-NSD will work great. If you like loud playback levels, then the PB12-NSD is better as it has about 50% more output/power than the PB10-NSD.

We appreciate your interest in SVSound and if you have any other questions, just holler.

Ed
SVS

OvalNut

12-15-06, 12:42 AM

You are extremely fortunate. That's Ed Mullen advising you.

Based on your honest assessment of your listening habits, follow his advice and don't look back.

Tim

mojomike

12-15-06, 12:50 AM

Be wary of some of the "shootouts" other members like to refer to. Many of those who are obsessed with "shootouts" and those who sponsor these "shootouts" have agendas. :o :o :o

That's kind of interesting. What sort of agendas do you feel might be in play? Free/cheap subs? Kick backs? Jobs with the company?

Now you've got me curious.

im the man

12-15-06, 01:03 AM

I heard the JLs at CEDIA this year. They are very good subs but not as good as much of the hype you are seeing in this forum. Be wary of some of the "shootouts" other members like to refer to. Many of those who are obsessed with "shootouts" and those who sponsor these "shootouts" have agendas. :o :o :o
No offense Kipp Jones but until you've done a side by side comparison, you have no idea. I own both a JL, now 2 Jl F113's, and a SVS PB 12plus/2. No hidden agendas here. To be honest I have no loyalty to any company, I just simple want the best. I think right now I have it. Don't get me wrong I love my SVS. It is a great product. It's just not on par with the F113. Now when the new Ultra 2 comes out, it might be a different story. But in fairness to SVS, who can you compare a 1,500 subwoofer to 3,300 Subwoofer? The JL should be better and is better. There is no if's and or but's about it. Is it worth the extra cash, to me it was. Now if you think Im some fanboy or have some hidden agenda, you should check out some of my other post I have posted on other sites about the SVS under the same name. Just a good old fashion consumer here that wants the best :D . When something better comes......, and rest assured something better will come out, Im sure I will try to get my dirty little hands on that too!!!

BrutalBodyShots

12-15-06, 12:13 PM

I own the SVS PB12/Plus 2 but have got to admit with all of the JL buzz going around here I'm very interested in giving one a try.

Does SVS have anything they are working on that can compete with the F112 or F113? I think it's amazing that JL is able to outperform TWO SVS drivers in a huge ported enclosure when they have ONE driver that is in a sealed, relatively small box and from what everyone says it is in both the areas of SQ and SPL.

Ron Temple

12-15-06, 02:04 PM

RMK!

12-15-06, 02:14 PM

Kipp Jones

12-16-06, 12:24 AM

That's kind of interesting. What sort of agendas do you feel might be in play? Free/cheap subs? Kick backs? Jobs with the company?

Now you've got me curious.

All that and then some.

Kipp Jones

12-16-06, 12:30 AM

No offense Kipp Jones but until you've done a side by side comparison, you have no idea. I own both a JL, now 2 Jl F113's, and a SVS PB 12plus/2. No hidden agendas here. To be honest I have no loyalty to any company, I just simple want the best. I think right now I have it. Don't get me wrong I love my SVS. It is a great product. It's just not on par with the F113. Now when the new Ultra 2 comes out, it might be a different story. But in fairness to SVS, who can you compare a 1,500 subwoofer to 3,300 Subwoofer? The JL should be better and is better. There is no if's and or but's about it. Is it worth the extra cash, to me it was. Now if you think Im some fanboy or have some hidden agenda, you should check out some of my other post I have posted on other sites about the SVS under the same name. Just a good old fashion consumer here that wants the best :D . When something better comes......, and rest assured something better will come out, Im sure I will try to get my dirty little hands on that too!!!

No offense to you but I also had the opportunity to do a side by side and the F113 was very good but not what it is hyped to be, so yes, I do know. :p :p :p Is the F113 worth $3,300...no. ~$1500 or less, maybe. Enjoy.

Kipp Jones

12-16-06, 12:33 AM

What an inaccurate and inflammatory little post this is. Says a lot about the author.

Contrary, says alot about those who respond to dissent and have a guilty conscience. ;) ;) ;) See, what I stated was correct, those with an agenda respond to defend themselves.

auburnu008

12-16-06, 02:05 AM

I dont guess this will compete with the JL's either right? lol
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/auburnu008/10.jpg

im the man

12-16-06, 02:43 AM

No offense to you but I also had the opportunity to do a side by side and the F113 was very good but not what it is hyped to be, so yes, I do know. :p :p :p Is the F113 worth $3,300...no. ~$1500 or less, maybe. Enjoy.

A side by side with what? :confused:

Kipp Jones

12-16-06, 11:13 AM

This is an SVS support thread. Please take your trolling elsewhere.

rockemsockem

12-16-06, 11:50 AM

What is the deal with the NSD/2? Why would anyone buy it over the PB12+? Does it offer more headroom with the dual drivers?

Any thoughts?

im the man

12-16-06, 01:14 PM

This is an SVS support thread. Please take your trolling elsewhere.

Kipp Im not one the one who brought up the F113 you did in an earlier post. An since I own and LOVE my PB 12 plus/2 as well I guess I can be amongst the rest of the SVS owners. You still have not answered my question Kipp you said you did a side by side comparison with an F113.........well to what??? What did you compare it to\? :confused:

ransac

12-16-06, 01:47 PM

This is supposed to be a flame-free thread. Guys, please stop this exchange or take it to another thread.

Kipp Jones

12-16-06, 02:47 PM

This is supposed to be a flame-free thread. Guys, please stop this exchange or take it to another thread.

Agreed. Lets get back on topic.

MKtheater

12-16-06, 03:56 PM

I love that B4+. Does it sound different than their other subs? I know it was designed a little different. I have owned musical subs before and it was not that much more detailed than the SVS. Because the SVS was so much tactile I went with instead. These new subs are supposed to be as powerful and more detailed and if the HSU turbo is so then for their price it is a better bang for buck sub than mine. This is why I am curious. Anyone who owned both? I have purchased 4 subs from SVS and a few from M&K. The M&K MX-5000 sub is the musical one I am talking about.

MKtheater

12-17-06, 01:02 AM

Ok guys I tuned my sub to the 16 HZ mode last night and watched superman about 20 db's below reference and the bass seemed to be much tighter and not so localized. It actually felt like the bass was coming from the screen. I like this setting much better. Tomorrow I will try reference levels to see what DB's I am actually hitting. Is this mode it should extend down to 12 HZ as it did extend down to 21 HZ with the 25 HZ setting. I will run the pod emerge scene as I know this has bass from 5 HZ and above. I am so glad working out these things are so much fun.

bgillyjcu

12-17-06, 09:43 AM

MK, what sub do you have exactly. I looked back quickly and couldn't locate it.

I'm intersted to hear your results of the different tuning modes.

If you have Blackhawk Down, try IRENE. I learned that this scene has a TON of bass in the 5-10hz range and up...

MKtheater

12-17-06, 11:45 AM

I have the PB12/plus/2.

bgillyjcu

12-17-06, 01:47 PM

I have the PB12/plus/2.

Yep, that is a monster! I wish I had that! Let me know what your findings are in 16 and 12HZ mode. good luck!

forhabi

12-17-06, 02:40 PM

Hey Guys,

I have my basement dedicated to a HT with a 8 foot screen and a projector. I have the Energy Veritas 2.1s and the energy sub (8" woofer) that came with my initial energy take 5 system. I love listening to music and the Vertias works great, however, I'm not sure if the sub is good enough for movies.

I was thinking about upgrading to an SVS sub after reading all the great reviews and was wondering if any of you have a similar set up or advise. My basement is ~350 sq feet and is also carpeted - would the PB-10 be good enough?

I don't have a big budget right now and don't know if it makes sense to have a great sub with the Veritas speakers? Any one else have this combination?

thanks
habi

bgillyjcu

12-17-06, 03:19 PM

For a sub we look at CUBIC feet. So We need a little more information first....

So what are the measurements of your room? Length, Width, and Ceiling Height?

Is it a sealed room? Meaning, no open doorways into other rooms...

forhabi

12-17-06, 03:47 PM

thanks -

the ceiling height is ~9 ft i would estimate it to be ~ 3000 cubic feeet, and it's pretty much a sealed room except or the stairs going up to the living room.

KYHTGUY

12-17-06, 03:53 PM

New SVS PB12-Plus just arrived DOA?!??

Unpacked my new Denon AVR and my new SVS Sub yesterday. Sub doesn't seem to work. Thought I'd ask here - just in case I've missed something simple.

Unit has power (the power light is on). I get no signal from the test tones from the AVR. I hooked up my current Klipsch KSW-10 and DID get a signal during test tone from the AVR, so the receiver is sending signal.

The toggle switch for Crossover (enable/disable) does not "toggle". It is in the middle and won't go up or down. If I push in slightly, it will then toggle up, but won't stay there. I'm assuming this is the problem.

I don't know what's going on with email, but I've tried to email customer support and I keep getting a message that my email is being delayed and then undelivered. I'll call tomorrow during business hours, but - again - thought I'd give this a shot first.

Do they send service agents out or do I have to pack it up and send it back to get a repair done?

Thanks!

ransac

12-17-06, 04:03 PM

If the amp can be identified as the problem, they will give you the option to send the whole thing back, or they will send out a replacement amp and you would replace it yourself. At least that is what they did with me.

The enable/disable switch is a two position toggle, there isn't a center position, so it would seem the switch is broken.

fullcontact

12-17-06, 04:38 PM

does anyone have any real pictures of the cream white SVS subwoofers?.....the pictures on the website look like they are paper white, but they are called cream white.....

if anyone has any real shots of one, could ya post them, or PM me and send to my email address?

thanks in advance

MugenPower

12-17-06, 04:55 PM

ME too! Love them!

I have the PB12/plus/2.

Ron Temple

12-17-06, 05:23 PM

Richard Mayer

12-17-06, 05:27 PM

I was surfing on the AV123 forum and this post (http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?postid=311522#post311522) caught my attention.

Mark L. Schifter: "I am no longer producing ANY cabinets for SVS... done...

I've been very candid with EVERYONE about this (ask the guys at the Chicago GTG)... av123 plans on being the NUMBER ONE SOURCE for ID subwoofers...

I'm taking no prisoners... I'm not fooling around with respect to this...

I'm planning on this --- and I mean it --- and all of our collective resources are going into this..."

IMO this is pretty major announcement, since most of the SVS cabinets are made by SAC/AV123. What's going to happen now?

ransac

12-17-06, 07:35 PM

I think this just signals the start of a new speaker war. The first shots will be fired in Vegas. 2007 is going to be a good year for anyone just entering the market or is looking to upgrade.

Viva la Revolution!:)

Oops, just saw TheEAR used this proclamation in the Fathom thread. :mad:

KYHTGUY

12-17-06, 10:00 PM

Randy and Ron,

Thanks for your responses. I'm glad to hear that if they diagnose the amp as the problem, they can just send me another one instead of sending the sub back. I had to do the same thing when I got my Klipsch - amp went out the first week and they sent me another one to install. I remember it being really easy - 4 screws and a plug.

I'll post my thoughts once I get the sub working and calibrated!

bgillyjcu

12-17-06, 10:07 PM

thanks -

the ceiling height is ~9 ft i would estimate it to be ~ 3000 cubic feeet, and it's pretty much a sealed room except or the stairs going up to the living room.

PB-10 might be ok.

but in all honesty I think the PB-12 is the better option considering 3000 cubic feet and still does have an opening going up the stairs.

Check their B-stock, they have some PB-12s and a 20-39 at really good prices!

Kipp Jones

12-18-06, 01:25 AM

forhabi

12-18-06, 01:44 AM

Thanks bgillyjcu !!

rockemsockem

12-18-06, 08:56 AM

thanks -

the ceiling height is ~9 ft i would estimate it to be ~ 3000 cubic feeet, and it's pretty much a sealed room except or the stairs going up to the living room.

I would also consider the cylinder subs since you have a tight budget, but a decent sized room. Shippping is much less on the cylinders, but you don't lose out on performance.

Plus, real men have cylinders, you don't want a wimpy box sub do you? :cool: ;)

rockemsockem

12-18-06, 08:57 AM

What is the deal with the NSD/2? Why would anyone buy it over the PB12+? Does it offer more headroom with the dual drivers?

Any thoughts?

Bump

forhabi

12-18-06, 12:20 PM

PB-10 might be ok.

but in all honesty I think the PB-12 is the better option considering 3000 cubic feet and still does have an opening going up the stairs.

Check their B-stock, they have some PB-12s and a 20-39 at really good prices!

Where do i find b-stock products on their website?

also is the PB-10 comparable with the 20-39?

rockemsockem

12-18-06, 12:24 PM

Where do i find b-stock products on their website?

also is the PB-10 comparable with the 20-39?

https://svsound.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=12

The 20-39 has 50% more output potential than the PB10. In a 3100 cubic foot room, I would definitely go for the 20-39.

KYHTGUY

12-18-06, 12:51 PM

Please post a pic so we can confirm you have everything connected correctly. Thanks.

I spoke to Eric at SVS this morning. He said the toggle thing will require a new amp anyway, so he's sending one out today. Should have it replaced Friday. If that doesn't work, I'll post photos to get your best advice. Thanks!

Dennis

bgillyjcu

12-18-06, 01:23 PM

Where do i find b-stock products on their website?

also is the PB-10 comparable with the 20-39?

Did you manage to snag the 20-39. I looked and it was gone.

You'll be very happy with the 20-39 or a PB-12

Ron Temple

12-18-06, 04:03 PM

I spoke to Eric at SVS this morning. He said the toggle thing will require a new amp anyway, so he's sending one out today. Should have it replaced Friday. If that doesn't work, I'll post photos to get your best advice. Thanks!

DennisReplacing the amp is just as you described...unscrew and disconnect the jumper(s) on the amp, hook up the new one and return or discard the old one.

forhabi

12-18-06, 06:01 PM

Did you manage to snag the 20-39. I looked and it was gone.

You'll be very happy with the 20-39 or a PB-12

Nope - someone else must have got it. Thanks for all the help - i'll keep an eye out for these on the SVS site.

Any SVS owners in the San Francisco bay area wanting to upgrade to a bigger sub and looking for buyers for the exisitng 25-31 or 20-39's?

forhabi

12-18-06, 06:53 PM

PB-10 might be ok.

but in all honesty I think the PB-12 is the better option considering 3000 cubic feet and still does have an opening going up the stairs.

Check their B-stock, they have some PB-12s and a 20-39 at really good prices!

Sorry for not checking earlier, but i just measured my room and it's actually a lot smaller - 2250 cubic feet.

Would a 20-39 be overkill? and would a PB-10 be a better choice?

goofy11

12-20-06, 03:43 PM

I'm looking to get the SBS-01 system and am debating between going with the PB-10 or PB-12 sub. Originally I wasn't even considering the PB-12, but some posts on this thread have me wondering. Is the PB-12 really worth the extra $150 (price difference with SBS-01)? I'm skeptical that I would really notice that much difference.

I don't know the measurements of my room (I'm out of town so I can't measure), but it is a family room that opens up to the kitchen. My guess it's around 240 sq. ft and it has vaulted ceilings.

bgillyjcu

12-20-06, 04:13 PM

is the PB-12 worth it........100% yes

Do you have the extra $150 is the real question.

MKtheater

12-20-06, 04:28 PM

bgillyjcu

12-20-06, 05:36 PM

Sound and Vision wrote this and I'm really confused...

Although the crossover is marked 120 Hz at the top of the dial, the system half power point (-3 dB) is 78 Hz. At the lower end of the dial, measured response extends from 25 to 60 Hz when the 80-Hz position is selected and 22 to 52 Hz when 40 Hz is selected. Interestingly, overall level is increased by 6 dB at the 80-Hz position, but there is no overall level change when 40 Hz is selected. As with nearly every subwoofer I've tested, adjustments to the crossover control will require rebalancing the subwoofer level as well.

Can someone better explain what they are refering to with the crossover?

Right now I have the crossover DISABLED on my PB-12 and I'm using my Pioneer 1014's 80HZ crossover setting. Am I doing the right thing there?

Big Bri

12-20-06, 08:37 PM

Hi guys,
I tried my sub in the 16 hz mode. I love the sound from deep bass but I was missing too much of the impact bass(the kind that smacks you in the face). I am now running it in the 20 Hz mode. I run my sub hot because I love to feel the bass. Really hot. The sub can handle this easily since my room is only 2300 cubic feet. I hit 120 db's at this position and that was my goal. Anything higher than that will blurr my vision. I could go higher but don't need to.

I found the same results when I tried my PB Plus/2 in 16hz mode. Similar size listening area. I have a question regarding measuring output. Do you set your sound level meter on slow or fast response for measurements during movie passages? C-weighted? I know for calibration it's supposed to be set to slow.

I run my mains at 75 db, and my sub at 80 db. That is using the test tones on my Denon. Although, the LFE tone seems to vary within a 5 db range, so I calibrated so the lowest measurement I get is 80 db. Seems to work, I'm very happy with the sound. I've never tried measuring levels of movie passages though. I'd like to try it.

For those who might be considering the Plus/2 and are wondering about headroom, I have a 2000 cf listening space with some large openings to other areas of the house. My gain on the SVS is at 1/4, and my LFE pre-out on the Denon is on -5.0 db. At moderate listening levels, I get a lot of kitchen appliance reaction, mostly the toaster oven.

ggunnell

12-20-06, 08:46 PM

Bgillyjcu said on the previous page:

---------------------

Sound and Vision wrote this and I'm really confused...

Although the crossover is marked 120 Hz at the top of the dial, the system half power point (-3 dB) is 78 Hz. At the lower end of the dial, measured response extends from 25 to 60 Hz when the 80-Hz position is selected and 22 to 52 Hz when 40 Hz is selected. Interestingly, overall level is increased by 6 dB at the 80-Hz position, but there is no overall level change when 40 Hz is selected. As with nearly every subwoofer I've tested, adjustments to the crossover control will require rebalancing the subwoofer level as well.

Can someone better explain what they are refering to with the crossover?

Right now I have the crossover DISABLED on my PB-12 and I'm using my Pioneer 1014's 80HZ crossover setting. Am I doing the right thing there?

-----------------------

Bgillyjcu, these comments only apply to those using the sub's x-o -- very few of us. Almost all buyers will be using a dedicated sub out on a receiver or prepro and will be using the x-o in their electronics, with the sub x-o set to 'disabled'.

It is good that reviewers test the various controls on sub plate amps, as these are often not labled correctly or do not perform as one would expect. As more and more aspects of sub performance become dependent on the plate amp electronics, it is important to make sure quality does not slip in this area.

Big Bri

12-20-06, 08:53 PM

After a couple months of listening, I ended up having to back my LFE pre-out on my Denon from -3.0 db to -5.0 db. I run my sub 5 db hot, but according to my sound level meter, it had gotten louder without any adjustment. At -5.0 db, it was the same level that it was at -3.0 db upon initial set-up.

I've heard a lot of yes/no theories on burn-in, but this would seem to indicate that it does happen.

KYHTGUY

12-20-06, 09:12 PM

sigs21

12-21-06, 12:43 AM

Ordered the PB10 NSD today.. really wanted the PB12 Nsd but budget and wife .. Exctually it was a gift from my parents thanks :) but I am sure it will still work great in my room.. I am adding new speakers so this will just add to my glee. PS my speakers are going to be the Paragdam Milliena 200's and 20's..

Any sub cables you guys recomened .. I was going to order speaker wire from blue jeans I think.. but might just get monster at bb have a credit there..

Big Bri

12-21-06, 07:41 AM

bgillyjcu

12-21-06, 10:05 AM

Monoprice makes good cables.

I did buy a monster bass 400 for my sub (well got it 60% off from a friend who works at CC) and I have to tell you I noticed that the bass "improved" by my standards.

My standards = deeper, louder, cleaner..etc

MKtheater

12-21-06, 04:11 PM

I set all my speakers to 75 db's, usually I set the bass to 80. My processor usually is set at -10 for that to happen. This time I set my processor to 0db's and then ran a spl check and the sub was at 95 db's(wow). Did I back off, no I watched a scene at reference levels and was blown away(literally). I have not measured this yet but I am sure I am over 120 db's. I run the spl meter on c weighted and fast for the peaks. I don't think that I can bottom my sub in my room. Not unless I want to damage my hearing with the highs. BTY I don't want to bottom my sub. I also think this sub is not boomy or slow either, I have owned a M&K mx-5000 and that is one of the fastest subs(detailed) out and the svs is close, just a tad slower with much, much more power.

stubeeef

12-21-06, 05:57 PM

ransac

12-21-06, 06:14 PM

It has been done and there are some pics somewhere. I'm sure someone will be able to link them.

rockemsockem

12-21-06, 06:15 PM

Gotta a question...
Has anyone experimented with a PC on its side? Also has anyone that has done that, made a cradle like holder to keep it there? I was thinking that would be the perfect fix for me, a cylinder on its side would fit very well under the screen and be cheaper to ship and more placement options (both the vertical and horiz).

thanks, and if there is any good info on this could you supply some links?

My boy Mag runs his like that, here's what he said on S&V forum about it:

The subs are on their side strictly to keep them out of the way of the screen and main speakers, which of course have rear firing drivers.

I badly wanted to keep a stereo sub setup and this has worked out quite well with them being tucked under the screen yet next to the mains to form one large full range speaker.

I have not noticed really any change to them being on their side as opposed to right side up. The base plates are still attached as well. They are raised off the floor about an inch by using the packing foam "cradles" they came shipped in.

I was going to make something to hold them steady and the answer was sitting there right in the boxes. Glad I saved them...

Here are some pics:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/teehtf/DCFC0005.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/teehtf/DCFC0011.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13/teehtf/DCFC0003.jpg