Santa needs you to take the sub from under the tree, so he can fit the other gifts. :-)

Santa needs you to take the sub from under the tree, so he can fit the other gifts. :-)

Actually he needs it strapped to the back of the sleigh to power it tonight..

I already posted this in another forum but thought I would post in here as well to get other people's opinion.

I just received my 20-39PC+ and so far i've been happy with it. I calibrated it to the same level as all the other channels at 75db with the Avia DVD and Radio Shack meter. Now the problem is I get some distortion/clipping in certain movies. During the THX Intro in Star Wars Episode 1 it distorts when the thunder strikes and the same thing happens in the opening minute of Matrix Revolutions. So I got a flashlight and watched the woofer during those scenes and it looks like the woofer hits the base plate. To fix this I had to lower it but then its not calibrated at the same level as all the other channels. Am I supposed to have this sub set lower so it doesn't bottom out?

I don't believe it has enough excursion to hit the base. With the Avia disk, you should calibrate at 85db. If you drive most any sub too hard, you will get compression, distortion, or bottoming. I had a 20-39 and it only bottomed on the most demanding scenes. But you can bottom it. Make sure your subsonic filter is set to match the open ports.

I'm not using any of the port plugs so I have the filter set to 20Hz. 85db is a little too loud for me so I set my receiver volume to 60 and calibrated everything to 75db. I don't think this sub should have any problems playing at this volume but for some reason it does on scenes I mentioned in my last post. I'm not sure if its because I have it setup wrong or if its defective. I might send an email to either SVS or Sonicboomaudio to see what they say.

85db is the calibration level for Avia. 75db is the calibration level for your AVR test tones. You don't have to play at that level.

Try blocking a port and set the filter to 16.

I'm not using any of the port plugs so I have the filter set to 20Hz. 85db is a little too loud for me so I set my receiver volume to 60 and calibrated everything to 75db. I don't think this sub should have any problems playing at this volume but for some reason it does on scenes I mentioned in my last post. I'm not sure if its because I have it setup wrong or if its defective. I might send an email to either SVS or Sonicboomaudio to see what they say.

One of the hallmarks of SVS is that the bass is so clean and free of distortion. I'd email or call the guys at SVS right away. I had a couple of cylinders before I bought my B4s and they never bottomed out or anything like that.

Hey guys, just recieved my 2nd PB10 last week. :D Now it's a little crazier in terms of spl compared to when I only had a single PB10 running. I currently have the gain on both subs at 11 O'clock position since 12 O'clock is a little too disrespecting to my neighbours :D :D Sorry for the crappy shot. Also you guys notice the 2nd PB10 has a much lighter grayish cone compared to my first PB10 which I bought directly from svs and the 2nd one from Sonicboom audio here in toronto.

Is the first PB10 and ISD and the second is an NSD?

What SVS is best for my room with 4300 cubic feet? I am thinking 2 SB12-Plus if it works. I may be able to do one SB12-Plus and one PB12-Plus. Or I can afford one PB12-Plus/2 or one PB12-Ultra now and may over time I can add SB12-Plus.

Do these combinations work well or should I try and look for a used PB12-Ultra/2?

I have KEF reference 203s and 202c speakers as mains.

Is the first PB10 and ISD and the second is an NSD?
NSD is the new improved driver (2006)--2007 is just around the corner, what will happen?!

Hi All, I am placing an order for a PB12 Plus in few days. I can't say enough good things about service I received from Tom V. and Ed at SVS. They were very repsonsive and answered all my questions in a timely fashion and with honesty. I told them I was interested in either the PB12 Ultra or the PB12 Plus. Tom suggested that I should get the cheaper PB12 Plus based on my needs. They really don't oversell!

Way to go! SVS.

Is the first PB10 and ISD and the second is an NSD?

Both are NSD driver.

Originally Posted by bgillyjcu
PB-10 might be ok.

but in all honesty I think the PB-12 is the better option considering 3000 cubic feet and still does have an opening going up the stairs.

Check their B-stock, they have some PB-12s and a 20-39 at really good prices!

I hate to piggy back, but my main room is 5000 cubic feet and then flows into another 2500 cf through two open doorways and some bar height kitchen counter tops. Those two openings are about 7' wide by 6' high. Then it opens up more than that on each side. Our formal living, formal dining, kitchen, breakfast area and family room are all one flowing room with countertops and pillars separating the area. The family room is the 5000 and the kitchen area is the 2500. Add another 1000 for the breakfast area and 2500 for the formal dining and living areas. I don't know if there is any hope.

Right now I am just running the subs in two Def Tech 2006s. They shake the room, but I don't know what I am missing. Maybe I should just stay with ignorance is bliss. :-) I was thinking about the new SB12 Plus for the WAF, but might try to get away with a 20-39 since its the same height as the Def Techs. Is there any hope?

Though the Def Techs may sound great, there is not substitute for a quality subwoofer unless your spending $5k and up for your mains.

The SB12Plus is a great small, sub that sounds great, and looks good at the same time, but it isn't going to give you belly wrenching bass. I think you should definitely consider the 20-39Plus over the SB12plus or regular 20-39.

What SVS is best for my room with 4300 cubic feet? I am thinking 2 SB12-Plus if it works. I may be able to do one SB12-Plus and one PB12-Plus. Or I can afford one PB12-Plus/2 or one PB12-Ultra now and may over time I can add SB12-Plus.

Do these combinations work well or should I try and look for a used PB12-Ultra/2?

I have KEF reference 203s and 202c speakers as mains.

Im thinking best bang for you buck, is the PB12-Plus/2, that is what they suggested to me upon emailing them, with very prompt replies.. Heck they even were emailing me on Christmas day.. imagine that.. You can always add another one later..

BTW.. My room is 8200 Cu. Ft. and Im sure that will be more then enough...
I just ordered mine yesterday, and is in route... can't wait to get this beast..

PS... from what I have heard around the forums.. PB12 Plus's are going up in price Jan. 1st.. so you may want to hit the buy button on their site.. :D :D I did.. !!!!

If you have to consider the SB12 for WAF, the +/2 is definitely out of your equation. For a space your size, one 12" is going to be a little weak unless you can place it near-field. I have a +/2 is an 8800cf space and wish I had two. One does produce a very solid impact down low, but it just isn't enough for me. But, I want my bass to rearrange the furniture, not just shake it.

You might look into dual 20-39. If you can hide them behind the towers, shouldn't cause too much of a WAF issue. But your budget may suffer.

If I can get the 20-39+ past the WAF, that's what I am going for. The problem is it's the family room that double as my HT.

that is sloppy! :D Absolutely a great product. No comparision to my old Infinity RS sub from 1990. (Yes I know I was well over due for a new one!) I actually was confused when I first heard it. Then I realized I was used to a sloppy sub. When people say that they actually heard true bass for the first time, I now understand. Bought a B stock. Looks new, sounds new to me-if you see what you are looking for in B stock buy it! I have it calibrated with my system, will try and dial in the PEQ over the next few days. Because the sub is so tight, I could slide the sub 3-1/2 ft. from the postion of my old sub closer to a corner which is a better sounding location for this sub. Music a priority for our HT system, so the sealed design is a great fit for me. To give you an idea of room size, we have an oddly shaped family room of about 1850 cu ft partially open to a kitchen of 1500 cu ft. This sub provides room filling controlled, tight bass with some impact, but not chest collapsing impact. It is plenty of sub for our occasional HT use, and even managed to startle my wife a couple of times tonight while we watched Cars with the kids. Ed was right on the money with his advice, and lived up to all the nice things people say about SVS. So yes I can say they are all true! Now to find a way to sneak another SB12+ past my wife to use in our living room instead of my old sub! Won't be long until I am strung out on bass! :p I can hear it now, "C'mon SVS.... sell me another sub...I need it reeeaaal baaaaad!"

Im thinking best bang for you buck, is the PB12-Plus/2, that is what they suggested to me upon emailing them, with very prompt replies.. Heck they even were emailing me on Christmas day.. imagine that.. You can always add another one later..!!!!

Thanks for the information. I anyway needed it before my second wall for screen is built in 2-weeks. So, just placed the order.

Thanks for the information. I anyway needed it before my second wall for screen is built in 2-weeks. So, just placed the order.

Good luck Kits... I just got the call, PB12-Plus/2 will be arriving within the hour... and I have to say, Im just a touch excited here... :eek: :D :eek: :D

Freakin out, as I will be replacing a Klipsch 10... Oh boy... Should be interesting to say the least...

Originally Posted by Warpdrv
Im thinking best bang for you buck, is the PB12-Plus/2, that is what they suggested to me upon emailing them, with very prompt replies.. Heck they even were emailing me on Christmas day.. imagine that.. You can always add another one later..!!!!


Thanks for the information. I anyway needed it before my second wall for screen is built in 2-weeks. So, just placed the order.

Kits,
I agree with warpdrv. Man you're going to have a good time when you first fire that puppy up :)

Good luck Kits... I just got the call, PB12-Plus/2 will be arriving within the hour... and I have to say, Im just a touch excited here... :eek: :D :eek: :D

Freakin out, as I will be replacing a Klipsch 10... Oh boy... Should be interesting to say the least...

so I guess we'll be getting a review from you before nights end? Be sure to take some photos.

Good luck Kits... I just got the call, PB12-Plus/2 will be arriving within the hour... and I have to say, Im just a touch excited here... :eek: :D :eek: :D

Freakin out, as I will be replacing a Klipsch 10... Oh boy... Should be interesting to say the least...

You will be pleased. My PB2+ replaced my Klipsch RSW-15. ;) ;) ;)

I had a Klipsch KSW-12 that I have had for 5 or 6 years. I have been happy with this sub, mostly because I have not been able to compare it with anything else. Well, it stopped working and I found that it had blown the fuse. When I jumped the fuse (please no lectures) and plugged it back in I got a low hum of some sort. So... off to Best Buy I went with the intention of purchasing the Synergy sub. Let me tell you, I was not impressed with the construction and how it compares to my older, now dead KSW-12. While the KSW may not compare performance wise to the Synergy, it was IMO constructed with a higher level of quality. So then, someone on the Klipsch forum, that’s right, the Klipsch forum, suggested that I look at SVS. After comparing the Klipsch to the SVS, and looking at all of the reviews, I wrote to SVS customer service. Not only did they respond the same day, 12/27/06 at 10:00 p.m., they suggested a different sub that I had enquired about that was $300 cheaper! Look at the manuals for the Synergy and the PB12-NSD that I purchased. It really tells you that the Synergy is made for the lower end crowd, while the SVS takes the time to really assist you in properly setting up the sub with your system. I ordered my new SVS yesterday and am sitting by the door waiting on UPS! I hope it lives up to the hype, but I just can't find anything negative about SVS anywhere. Thanks

That's a great testimony Ron. There are very few companies out there these days that truly understand the raw power of good customer service....even to prospective customers. I'm sure you'll be pleased with your purchase.

Oh, one question. You wouldn't by any chance know how to jump a fuse would you :D

Ron,

Rest assured, it ain't no hype! I was in the same boat as you earlier this week. After my wife said she knew I would rather have a new sub Christmas than have her go out and buy me clothes and other misc. presents, I ordered a SB12+. (Wife wanted smaller sub than the PB12-NSD but hey, she was buying!) I had previously been emailing SVS and getting some great advice on what would fit my room and needs, and got the same great service you have bee getting. Anyway I was on pins and needles yesterday waiting for UPS to arrive. Let me tell you, you will be thrilled when you hear it. Believe me, you have no idea how it is going to sound! Enjoy.

You will be pleased. My PB2+ replaced my Klipsch RSW-15. ;) ;) ;)

I replaced a KSW-15 with my PB Plus/2. The RSW's weren't available at the time I bought my Klipsch. The KSW was decent, but not in the same league as the Plus/2.

Just watched Dead Man's Chest the other night, nice LFE. Great villian!

I had a great conversation with Erik today about a 7.1 system and which sub, from pb10-pb12-pci and pc+. I feel fairly confident in my choices (led by the hand) and look forward to late Jan when the $$ will be available!

so I guess we'll be getting a review from you before nights end? Be sure to take some photos.


Oh my F*'n GOD.... this thing is Tearin my house apart... I am completely floored..
Well I guess I will be doing alot of work on my house now... Cr@p.. I have found more rattles coming from places I had no idea. I currently have it set at about 1/4 gain.. and its hittin really hard. Just runnin LFE sweep on the Avia disk, I was rattling the ceiling fan upstairs in my sons room clear across the house (he was bit*hin).. its a 3200 sq ft house.. HAHAHHA he told me I was Nuts !!!! ROFL :eek: :D :D I nearly wet my pants...

I spent most of the afternoon setting things up with SPL, and AVIA and I graphed a nasty curve I'll have to figure out how to get rid of, I think I tamed it a bit, but I am no expert and could use some help, I moved it around a bit, and that seemed to help also.. The sub came packed really well, with high density foam surrounding it, which I cut up and am using it underneath the sub to isolate it from the floor. Works great.. I was going to buy a Gramma Amp isolator, but no need for that now..

I got it in the Rosenut color... and it is absolutely beautiful.. fit and finish is second to none... looks great... I will have to post a picture when I get a chance, although it is placed behind my plasma in a corner, so you can't really see it.. unfortunately.

Played Finding Nemo, and it shook the house INSANE..
Phantom Manace, pod race scene.. and HOLY Cow..
LFE is unbelievable !!! Like the first time I ever heard bass.

I thought with all the hype about these woofers, that I was going to be let down..
I can't imagine what would happen if I turned this thing up any louder.

All I have to say, is THANKS SVS... Another extremely happy customer..
Im glad I didn't skimp, and went a little overboard.. $1500. and I'll own it forever !!!!

Warp

Now, put it in the 16Hz tune and get The Haunting and/or Titan AE. Make sure your son is in the same room. He won't think your nuts anymore. Well, at least not over your sound system.

The Haunting has some very low stuff, especially when the bedroom ices up and when it speaks. You'll know it when you hear it. Titan AE has great LFE throughout. So does the Lord of the Ring trio.

Now, put it in the 16Hz tune and get The Haunting and/or Titan AE. Make sure your son is in the same room. He won't think your nuts anymore. Well, at least not over your sound system.

The Haunting has some very low stuff, especially when the bedroom ices up and when it speaks. You'll know it when you hear it. Titan AE has great LFE throughout. So does the Lord of the Ring trio.

Actually, after playin with it for a bit... I put in the second plug and dropped that sucker down.. hittin the low stuff is sweet..

With as much raw grunt this thing has, I figured that I would have no problem losing some spl... and I don't think I have peaked it out yet.. It may take me a bit, but I'll max this sucker out.. Hope my house can take it... :)

Oh my F*'n GOD.... this thing is Tearin my house apart... I am completely floored..
Well I guess I will be doing alot of work on my house now... Cr@p.. I have found more rattles coming from places I had no idea. I currently have it set at about 1/4 gain.. and its hittin really hard. Just runnin LFE sweep on the Avia disk, I was rattling the ceiling fan upstairs in my sons room clear across the house (he was bit*hin).. its a 3200 sq ft house.. HAHAHHA he told me I was Nuts !!!! ROFL :eek: :D :D I nearly wet my pants...
Our work here is done. ;)


Tim

Our work here is done. ;)


Tim

Now thats pee in the pants funny...

I do owe all my thanks to everyone here that had posted info for me to read, and feel comfortable with my enormous purchase, although one part, a major one..

Thank you all, for all your help... and Thank you SVS for making my gut hurt !!!!

Warp

Gald you're happy warpdrv. Now, about those photos......

Ok thought I'd share my pics here.. but not sure how much space I should take up, with 7 pics... but I'll display them for now, and change to links If anyone would prefer.. I love my new toy, It just pounds.. and as usuall my friends that have come over to visit were like, what the hell is that... (nice table) then upon hearing the bass impact... are questioning my morality.. :)

Also I used the High Density foam that it came packed in for Vibration isolation, works spectacularly... huge difference from being on the floor.. just need to trim it up a bit, maybe spray paint for some sort of color match...
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/home%20theater/SVS-PB12Plus2007.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/home%20theater/SVS-PB12Plus2001.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/home%20theater/SVS-PB12Plus2003.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/home%20theater/SVS-PB12Plus2002.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/home%20theater/SVS-PB12Plus2004.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/home%20theater/SVS-PB12Plus2005.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/home%20theater/SVS-PB12Plus2006.jpg

man you gotta alot of money!

Beautiful setup. Have you experimented with placement?

Congratulations, Warpdrv. Looks great. Almost enough to offset that... "thing" on the back of your chair! :eek: :p :D

Enjoy (but not too much tomorrow night)! ;)

On a serious note, spray paint and foam don't always play well together. At least not for me. I've had foam start to melt when I tried to spray it. I'm sure somebody here will be able to be more definitive, because I'm as incompetent as they come on DIY matters, but I thought I'd mention it FWIW.

Very pretty. I like the foam put to good use.

That center channel looks tiny compared to everything else there.

Do you get a lot of vibration w/ the wooden floors?

Nice pics. You do take near-field placement to the extreme. I would bet you sit in the chair.

Thanks guys, Its been slow going for me, one piece at a time, but its really strting to come together... Amp, Speaks, and Pre/Pro or receivers are on the list...

Congratulations, Warpdrv. Looks great. Almost enough to offset that... "thing" on the back of your chair! :eek: :p :D
Enjoy (but not too much tomorrow night)! ;)
Thanks for the tip on the foam... I'll cover it with some fabric then... :)

I knew I would catch some $hit for that Packers "THING" HEHEH
I wouldn't worry too much, Im sure we'll be gettin our A$$'s handed to us tomorrow !!!!

Very pretty. I like the foam put to good use.
That center channel looks tiny compared to everything else there.
Do you get a lot of vibration w/ the wooden floors?

I actually was running it a bit hot, and was seriously going to do some damage to the house with the direct contact to the wood floors... and It sounds 100% better as well.

And My Paradigm Studio's all around will be coming shortly, with the SUPER-GYNORMOUS CC-690 at 36" wide, should take care of my small CC problem.. :)
Im in the process of making a cubby for that new CC to go into and have the Plasma perched on top of... all made out of Ash like the rest of the console.. got a lot of work on that yet to do.. Will be awesome though...

I haven't experimented with moving it around too much, that is the second place I have tried, and by far better then behind the Plasma... I really only have 1 other place then where its at now, but I think it will be staying right where it is... sounds awesome... Oh and it looks pretty FTW !!!!!

you really gotta lot of money........ :cool:

ya done good kid.

Warpdrv to bad that kings chair was not in the sweet spot Yad neva have to leave

This is my first full sub so I don't have anything to compare to it but after watching Master and the Commander and War of the Worlds I am very impressed by the sub.

I had a few questions... What should my subwoofer level start off at when I'm calibrating my system? Any other comments? I can't use AVIA to calibrate yet until the SPL meter is back in stock. So I am just going by ear right now.

Setup:
Pansonic SA-XR57
Athena B1.2 Fronts
Athena C1.2 Center
Athena S.5 Rear Surrounds
SVS PB Plus/2

Receiver settings:
Subwoofer level 10
All sound effects PLx, SFC, NEO:6 off
Speakers set to Small
Crossover set to 100Hz

Sub settings:
1/4 gain
Crossover off on Sub
Phase at 0

Pics of my setup:
http://www.deciblast.org/images/dee/svs1.jpg
http://www.deciblast.org/images/dee/svs2.jpg
http://www.deciblast.org/images/dee/svs3.jpg
http://www.deciblast.org/images/dee/svs4.jpg

Read the manual first, it'll tell ya to start off with gain at 1/4 to 1/3 adjustment...
Really hard to setup if you don't have a spl meter.. just play it as best by ear as you can..

I really learned how far off my stuff was when I got the meter.. unbelievable, it really sounds pretty darn good right now.. enough I wouldn't have to change anything in my room for a while, hhehee although thats not going to stop me... :)

Even just listening to the Avia sounds or the receiver test tones, and doing it by ear, I was way off.. :( good luck partner.. Looks nice and get a plug in one of those holes right off.. Low is the way to go... :)

I wouldn't worry about losing SPL in that small room.. plenty of power there :eek: :D

Calibrating by ear is VERY difficult. The human ear is less sensitive to lower frequencies, so we wind up calibrating our subs very hot that way. Even people who do this all the time miss when doing it by ear. If you must do it by ear, calibrate to where you think everything is flat, and then back the sub down a bit.

-Robb

robb's right. Of course, above all else, don't forget to have fun:>)

Calibrating by ear is VERY difficult. The human ear is less sensitive to lower frequencies, so we wind up calibrating our subs very hot that way. Even people who do this all the time miss when doing it by ear. If you must do it by ear, calibrate to where you think everything is flat, and then back the sub down a bit.

-Robb

I kind of disagree, I did mine by ear then by spl meter and there was not much difference between the two. Not saying that going by ear is the best way, but you do what you gotta do.

Of course you do what you've got to do, and that's why I recommended what I did for calibrating by ear. You may have gotten very close by ear, but that doesn't change the fact the vast majority of people will, and do, calibrate hot when doing it by ear. The human ear's sensitivity to lower frequencies isn't a matter of opinion.

Edit: I read that last sentence after posting, and it came across as "snippy", and I didn't mean it that way.

-Robb

I'm having great fun playing around with my new 20-39 PC-Plus in my 1700 cubic foot enclosed room, just waiting for the kids to go back to school to have more time to have some real fun!

Following the above conversation, and past conversations re: calibrating subs by ear, I have a theoretical question of sorts. Assuming the ear is insensitive to lower frequencies, wouldn't calibrating by ear be more accurate to what we actually hear as opposed to what the meter says the level should be at? (I do use a meter by the way)

For example, let's say the meter says the sub should be at +1dB while calibrating by ear gives you a value of +5dB. Given the ears insensitivity to low frequencies, why wouldn't the +5dB setting more accurately reflect what would "sound good" to our "insensitive ears"?

It's early and I'm just finishing up a shift at work so I'm not sure my question accurately reflects what I'm thinking...

sounds like you're proposing that it's all relative. I think that's true, if I understand you right. My sense is that the relative measures you get from your own ears and the absolute measurement you get from a meter can co-exist. It all depends on what you want. And believe me, after spending the kind of money we all spend on this stuff, you definitley ought to have it the way you want it. If you're the type of person that likes your bass a certain way, regardless of what the meter says, I don't know that there's any rulebook out there that says you can't do that. On the other hand, there are also guys out there that simply want the structure that comes from measuring with a meter. To them that's almost more important than what the metered environment sounds like. You can go to extremes in both cases.

In my system, I like to do everyything by ear and then test it out with a meter. And when using a meter, for some reason, I always put the receiving mike about 1 to 2 feet in front of the listening position. To me, things just sound "better" that way. Not sure why.

In the end, both the meter and the ear are just a tools and you should treat them as such. Here's a simple test. If the amount of time you spend measuring [whether by ear or meter] outruns the amount of time you spend actually watching movies, you're probably over the top a bit. On the other hand, if you never measure at all [either by meter or ear] you're probably off balance in the opposite extreme. Your ear and the meter are both great tools. Use them both.....and by all means.....have fun:>)

I bought my first meter when I got my sub, I should have done that along time ago...
I always thought my system (as crappy as it is) sounded good, but after measuring and adjusting to balance it all out, It was night and day...

Never underestimate a good tool... That and a Big Goddam WOOFER !!!!!! :)

Warp

Calibrating by ear is very difficult, indeed. Another thing to consider is what are you calibrating for. If you are calibrating mostly for HT, then you can afford going a few dbs hot on your sub, (though you are still not going to be in balance for your other speakers). But if you are calibrating for music, proper calibration using an SPL meter is super critical. It is very easy and routine to have bumps around 50-60hz that will bloat your material, or frequency nulls in places that you could pick up with an SPL meter. Remember that the purpose of a sub is to provide the content and impact at those lower frequencies. It should relay the content of the source material, but it also should never introduce anything that is not in the source material to start with. The meter gives you a more accurate base to work from to keep everything as flat as possible, and to keep the transition between your mains and your sub as smooth as possible.

I'm having great fun playing around with my new 20-39 PC-Plus in my 1700 cubic foot enclosed room, just waiting for the kids to go back to school to have more time to have some real fun!

Following the above conversation, and past conversations re: calibrating subs by ear, I have a theoretical question of sorts. Assuming the ear is insensitive to lower frequencies, wouldn't calibrating by ear be more accurate to what we actually hear as opposed to what the meter says the level should be at? (I do use a meter by the way)

For example, let's say the meter says the sub should be at +1dB while calibrating by ear gives you a value of +5dB. Given the ears insensitivity to low frequencies, why wouldn't the +5dB setting more accurately reflect what would "sound good" to our "insensitive ears"?

It's early and I'm just finishing up a shift at work so I'm not sure my question accurately reflects what I'm thinking...

I'd respond with "yes and no". Personal taste obviously comes into play here. I've heard of some folks who calibrate their subs almost 20 dB hot! If they like it that way, who am I (much less a meter) to say otherwise? The trick here, though, is to know how hot you have it, and have enough sub to do it. So, that's the "yes".

The "no" is that test tones are rarely like anything recorded into any material you listen to. They are designed to have the exact same volume for all the speakers/frequencies. Your movie sound effects and music, however, are designed to sound good. That is, any lower frequency that needs a boost to be "fun" or to "sound good" to the human ear already (theoretically, at least) has that boost. When you calibrate "flat" it sounds more natural. That's why you've already seen one person in this thread point out the need for calibration with music. I happen to agree with calibrating flat for music, but refer to the "yes" above. :)

There really is nothing wrong with calibrating by ear, but if your desire is natural sounding reproduction of lower frequencies, a meter is the best way to go. If you must do it by ear, you have a good chance of calibrating hot, so take it back a bit from where it sounds the same on test tones for you (unless, of course, you like it that way, and who am I to tell you otherwise?).

-Robb

Good advise Rob

I Just ordered PB12-Plus. Can't wait. :)

You'll love it. What made you choose it over the Nsd/2?

got my sub and a tshirt.. hope fully the wife will be distrected by the tshirt.

Just got my PB12 Plus. They shipped it yesterday and it's here (Maryland) today. Boy, this thing is MASSIVE! I knew the specs but couldn't quite picture how big it was going to be. Anyway, I just hooked it up but haven't tried anything yet. Maybe tomorrow. It's replacing a Sunfire True Subwoofer MKII. Wife hasn't seen it yet. It's in the basement. She didn't even know I bought one. :D

Just got my PB12 Plus. They shipped it yesterday and it's here (Maryland) today. Boy, this thing is MASSIVE! I knew the specs but couldn't quite picture how big it was going to be. Anyway, I just hooked it up but haven't tried anything yet. Maybe tomorrow. It's replacing a Sunfire True Subwoofer MKII. Wife hasn't seen it yet. It's in the basement. She didn't even know I bought one. :D


NICE job... you will love it.. i only have the pb10 nsd but damn that thing is loud..

Tell the wife you just got a new file cabinet

Just got my PB12 Plus. They shipped it yesterday and it's here (Maryland) today. Boy, this thing is MASSIVE! I knew the specs but couldn't quite picture how big it was going to be. Anyway, I just hooked it up but haven't tried anything yet. Maybe tomorrow. It's replacing a Sunfire True Subwoofer MKII. Wife hasn't seen it yet. It's in the basement. She didn't even know I bought one. :D

How the hell could you hook it up but not try anything yet?

Are you trying to torture yourself?

How the hell could you hook it up but not try anything yet?

Are you trying to torture yourself?

No time, man, with kids and wife. You know the story. Anyway, I ran the auto setup with my Yamaha RXV 2700 receiver this morning. The receiver set my B & W CDM7 tower speakers as "Large", bass out to both main speakers and the sub, and the crossover at 100HZ. I changed the main speakers to "small". bass out to sub only and the crossover at 80Hz. I haven't played around with sub's parametric equializer yet. Will try to run the sound meter tests next week.

This morning I watched clips of Ice Age Meltdown (1080p Blu Ray), the last battle scene of Saving Private Ryan, and the bombing of Pearl Harbor in the Pearl Harbor movie. The tanks in Saving Ryan really rattled the house. It's a great sub, nice bass and workermanship, I only wish the size could be a bit smaller. My old Sunfire sub is not a bad sub though. Folks at SVS are great.

Hey Guys...

i think i'm gonna pull the trigger and buy an SVS sub.

what makes sense the NSD or the Plus? I'm thinking of getting a cylinder and wanted you guys opinion. is there really a difference in the way it sounds? is the plus worth an additional 250 than the NSD?

Also, if i'm not satisfied, would SVS pay for the return shipping?

thanks

Pretty standard answer is to email SVS and tell them the size of the space you are filling - not just the viewing room but any adjoining open spaces too. For example, a family room with an opening to a kitchen means you should account for the volume of the family room and the kitchen. Some of this can be mitigated with near-field placement though (i.e. putting the sub near where you sit when watching).

SVS does NOT pay for return shipping.

If you can afford it, I would suggest getting the Plus model.


Mitch


Hey Guys...

i think i'm gonna pull the trigger and buy an SVS sub.

what makes sense the NSD or the Plus? I'm thinking of getting a cylinder and wanted you guys opinion. is there really a difference in the way it sounds? is the plus worth an additional 250 than the NSD?

Also, if i'm not satisfied, would SVS pay for the return shipping?

thanks

...edit...

what makes sense the NSD or the Plus? I'm thinking of getting a cylinder and wanted you guys opinion. is there really a difference in the way it sounds? is the plus worth an additional 250 than the NSD?

...edit...

Yes, the Plus models are worth the difference: better driver, more power, switchable LF rolloff, variable port tuning. Unless you have some special requirements get a 20-39 Plus -- it's the most versatile model.

No time, man, with kids and wife. You know the story. Anyway, I ran the auto setup with my Yamaha RXV 2700 receiver this morning. The receiver set my B & W CDM7 tower speakers as "Large", bass out to both main speakers and the sub, and the crossover at 100HZ. I changed the main speakers to "small". bass out to sub only and the crossover at 80Hz. I haven't played around with sub's parametric equializer yet. Will try to run the sound meter tests next week.

This morning I watched clips of Ice Age Meltdown (1080p Blu Ray), the last battle scene of Saving Private Ryan, and the bombing of Pearl Harbor in the Pearl Harbor movie. The tanks in Saving Ryan really rattled the house. It's a great sub, nice bass and workermanship, I only wish the size could be a bit smaller. My old Sunfire sub is not a bad sub though. Folks at SVS are great.

Great job on the settings Bimmer... all the reading you did, you went right to work just like I did, and got right to the fun... My favorite, was the bass sweep on the avia disk... I must have run that like 20 times.. and just laughed so freakin hard every time.. My kid couldn't even talk on the phone because of it... :)

You should have gotten a Plus/2... she wouldn't notice..

Post up some pics bro.. !!!!

Thanks for the input guys.

i'm excited... i just snagged a 25-31 PC plus from the SVS b-stock list for $725 + shipping.

I hope it meets my expectations and more!!

You should have gotten a Plus/2... she wouldn't notice..

:D

Post up some pics bro.. !!!!

Will do.

Thanks for the input guys.

i'm excited... i just snagged a 25-31 PC plus from the SVS b-stock list for $725 + shipping.

I hope it meets my expectations and more!!


It will, and then some. Enjoy.

i have a 12 jl w6 in my car,it has connections for pos and neg on each side of the sub,so i ran jumper wires to pos to pos and neg to neg.is that what i need to do for the sub to work right.or do i hook them pos to neg and so on.please help.

Enjoying very much my four PB12plus/2s

http://www.artsonneborn.com/assets/images/db_images/db_SVS_01w2.jpg

http://www.artsonneborn.com/assets/images/db_images/db_Fronts_02a1.jpg

Art

Art, awesome setup! Are those PB12-Plus/2's in Rosewood?

Art, awesome setup! Are those PB12-Plus/2's in Rosewood?

That's his old setup, he's running four Submersives now. Looks like oak to me?

Great job on the settings Bimmer... all the reading you did, you went right to work just like I did, and got right to the fun... My favorite, was the bass sweep on the avia disk... I must have run that like 20 times.. and just laughed so freakin hard every time.. My kid couldn't even talk on the phone because of it... :)

You should have gotten a Plus/2... she wouldn't notice..

Post up some pics bro.. !!!!


I watched most of Kingdom of Heaven this morning. I played it with the Play Station 3, 1080p output through receiver to my Sony XBR2. Boy, the picture is fabulous and the audio, expecially the bass, just kicks a$$. The Blu Ray disk has DTS HD master audio but the receiver played it in multi channel PCM, really nice.

Now I am an idiot, how do I put pictures in my post? I copied the pictures but it wouldn't let me paste them in the post. The "paste" is grayed out.

Use a host site like photobucket....

i'm excited... i just snagged a 25-31 PC plus from the SVS b-stock list for $725 + shipping.

I hope it meets my expectations and more!!

Where do you find this B stock list

Where do you find this B stock list

Here you go: SVS B-stock (https://svsound.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=12)

Where do you find this B stock listNot much in B stock right now. SVS (and others) should make it a little easier to find the link for first-timers. Once you know where it is, it's simple, but it is hard to find the first time.

Of course, you have to know what B stock is.

Hey guys... quick question. I was watching the sandstorm/crash scene in Flight of the Pheonix today and I THINK my PB12-Plus/2 bottomed out. Does anyone know what frequency that scene has when the plane is quickly losing altitude and all the passengers are screaming? There's one note that is sustained for 5 or 7 seconds that I think the sub can't quite handle... I can hear a fast knock-knock-knock coming from the cabinet.

This is strange to me because I've never been able to do this with anything else other than playing bass test CD's with VERY low frequencies at high volumes.

Is the bass during that part of the scene just that low?

I did hook up a ButtKicker LFE today finally which compliments the PB12-Plus/2 very well! I'll have to tweak that thing tomorrow.

Oh by the way, I only have the subwoofer gain on the SVS amp at about 10:00 or maybe 1/3 of the way up which I wouldn't think would be overdoing it. I have one port plugged... would plugging two (or unplugging the 1) do anything to minimize what I believe is the subwoofers bottoming out?

I haven't played that particular scene, but I have played other movies deep and very loud with no distress from the +/2. I am running in the 16Hz tune now and starting to like it.

Hey guys... quick question. I was watching the sandstorm/crash scene in Flight of the Pheonix today and I THINK my PB12-Plus/2 bottomed out. Does anyone know what frequency that scene has when the plane is quickly losing altitude and all the passengers are screaming? There's one note that is sustained for 5 or 7 seconds that I think the sub can't quite handle... I can hear a fast knock-knock-knock coming from the cabinet.

This is strange to me because I've never been able to do this with anything else other than playing bass test CD's with VERY low frequencies at high volumes.

Is the bass during that part of the scene just that low?

I did hook up a ButtKicker LFE today finally which compliments the PB12-Plus/2 very well! I'll have to tweak that thing tomorrow.

Oh by the way, I only have the subwoofer gain on the SVS amp at about 10:00 or maybe 1/3 of the way up which I wouldn't think would be overdoing it. I have one port plugged... would plugging two (or unplugging the 1) do anything to minimize what I believe is the subwoofers bottoming out?


What are your settings, room size, etc.

See the first post in this thread for my set-up. I also have a Plus/2, and have yet to bottom it out, including FOTF, WOTW, and some other bass-heavy tracks.

Hey guys... quick question. I was watching the sandstorm/crash scene in Flight of the Pheonix today and I THINK my PB12-Plus/2 bottomed out. Does anyone know what frequency that scene has when the plane is quickly losing altitude and all the passengers are screaming? There's one note that is sustained for 5 or 7 seconds that I think the sub can't quite handle... I can hear a fast knock-knock-knock coming from the cabinet.

This is strange to me because I've never been able to do this with anything else other than playing bass test CD's with VERY low frequencies at high volumes.

At very low frequncies the driver(s) in a ported enclosure can "unload" -- the resistance of the enclosure drops close to zero -- and bottoming car occur more easily. Putting a lot of SPL into a room at very low Hz requires a lot of drivers/excursion/power -- you have found the lowest Hz power limit of one /2 in your room!

I'd drop an email to Tom/Ed at techsupport@svsound.com with your room size etc. and get their advice.

To roll off your subsonic response, increase the setting on the subsonic filter on the SB12-Plus/2.

Of course another /2 would help :)

I haven't played that particular scene, but I have played other movies deep and very loud with no distress from the +/2. I am running in the 16Hz tune now and starting to like it.

See that's the thing I've played tons of other bass heavy scenes and have never had any issues.

What are your settings, room size, etc.

See the first post in this thread for my set-up. I also have a Plus/2, and have yet to bottom it out, including FOTF, WOTW, and some other bass-heavy tracks.


My room size is about 15'x17'x8' and is open to the rest of the house. I'm using a Marantz SR8500 receiver. When I really crank it for movies I drop the volume to 0 (not sure how far into the negatives it goes) but I'd guess that I'm at about 60-70% of the receivers max. I have the subwoofer setting on the Marantz set to 0 (no boost) and the PB12-Plus/2 has its gain at around 10:00 or maybe 1/3 of its max.

What do you guys think would happen if I added another port (or removed the one port I currently have in)?

I did email SVS tech support about this issue.

Just got my PB12 Plus. They shipped it yesterday and it's here (Maryland) today. Boy, this thing is MASSIVE! I knew the specs but couldn't quite picture how big it was going to be. Anyway, I just hooked it up but haven't tried anything yet. Maybe tomorrow. It's replacing a Sunfire True Subwoofer MKII. Wife hasn't seen it yet. It's in the basement. She didn't even know I bought one. :D

Post some pictures, please!!! :)

What do you guys think would happen if I added another port (or removed the one port I currently have in)?



Removing the one plug will raise the tuning and give you more overall volume output and less deep extension. Adding another plug would do just the opposit. Make sure your high pass filter setting matches the tuning you choose. Experiment to see which sounds better to your ears.

My room size is about 15'x17'x8' and is open to the rest of the house. I'm using a Marantz SR8500 receiver. When I really crank it for movies I drop the volume to 0 (not sure how far into the negatives it goes) but I'd guess that I'm at about 60-70% of the receivers max. I have the subwoofer setting on the Marantz set to 0 (no boost) and the PB12-Plus/2 has its gain at around 10:00 or maybe 1/3 of its max.

What do you guys think would happen if I added another port (or removed the one port I currently have in)?

I did email SVS tech support about this issue.

SVS is usually excellent as far as tech support goes, so they shouldn't take long to get back with you. Make sure that the sound you hear is actually your sub bottoming-out, and not some other room resonance. I find that at high volume, my room/whole house has vibrations that go unnoticed at any other time. Get down on the floor next to your sub, hearing protection might be a good idea, and play those passages you mentioned. Use a flashlight and observe the drivers. Are they actually bottoming out?

I'm still nailing down the vibes in my own system. My last round of tightening came with the movement of the Death Star in Episode IV. I had to screw each compartment of my ent center to the wall to keep them from vibrating. I also have a floating laminate floor that I think gives me some trouble sometimes. I doubt I'll ever have a "silent" room. I envy those who have a dedicated theater that they can tailor to their system. That's life......

"Removing the one plug will raise the tuning and give you more overall volume output and less deep extension. Adding another plug would do just the opposit. Make sure your high pass filter setting matches the tuning you choose. Experiment to see which sounds better to your ears."

I actually did this when I first got my PB12-Plus/2 a few months ago and found that I liked the one plug best. Now that I added a ButtKicker LFE to the equation though I may remove the one plug and let the shaker deal with the really low stuff.

SVS is usually excellent as far as tech support goes, so they shouldn't take long to get back with you. Make sure that the sound you hear is actually your sub bottoming-out, and not some other room resonance. I find that at high volume, my room/whole house has vibrations that go unnoticed at any other time. Get down on the floor next to your sub, hearing protection might be a good idea, and play those passages you mentioned. Use a flashlight and observe the drivers. Are they actually bottoming out?

I don't believe it to be anything other than the sub but I suppose I should get down and see. How would you guys describe a sub bottoming out sound? To me it sounds like if you take a wooden broom handle and touch the tip to the blades of a fast spinning ceiling fan... knock-knock-knock-knock-knock...

Does that sound accurate?

That sounds about right, sort of a loud clacking sound.

Does anyone have a means to measure the frequency during the part of the scene in Flight of the Phoenix that I'm referring to? I'd really like to know how low it goes during that part.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/weezR/Waterfalls/FlightofthePhoenix_ch6_crash.jpg

AMAZING, kweezer is posting waterfalls again.....;)

Snakes on...have good LFE kweez? Otherwise I won't even rent it for free on my BB... :confused:

Kweezr,

Thanks for the chart above, good stuff.

However, it only serves to confuse me more, because that part that I believe is bottoming out my sub I believe is the second arrow you have in your diagram which appears to be the highest frequency peaks around 40hz? The sub handles everything else in that scene fine but fails at 40hz material? I don't get it.

Kweezr,

Thanks for the chart above, good stuff.

However, it only serves to confuse me more, because that part that I believe is bottoming out my sub I believe is the second arrow you have in your diagram which appears to be the highest frequency peaks around 40hz? The sub handles everything else in that scene fine but fails at 40hz material? I don't get it.
Check 15:46. There's a very loud sustained ~32 Hz tone when the plane rolls over (everybody scream). Is that the spot?

If you had to chose between the SVS sb-12 plus or the Sunfire D-12 which would you pick and why? I want the best sub fot HT in a 16x12 room but floor space and WAF are factors also have to stay around under a grand

Thanks Tony

I would pick the thread you've already started on this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=782694

Check 15:46. There's a very loud sustained ~32 Hz tone when the plane rolls over (everybody scream). Is that the spot?

Yes Richard,

The note that bottoms out my sub is from 15:45-15:51 (about 6 seconds long). If I play the scene at reference level it bottoms out... but if I lower the volume from 0 on my Marantz SR8500 to +3 it BARELY is bottoming out and at +4 everything is fine... but of course the rest of the scene at +4 isn't as exciting as at reference level.

Tom from SVS suggested that I try 25hz tune (3 ports open) instead of 20hz with the one port plugged as I have it now. I'm going to go replay that scene at reference level with all ports open now and I'll report back in a few...

Alright with all settings being equal and removing the single port (changing my tune from 20hz to 25hz) the sub at reference volume BARELY hits the bottom out point now. I suppose for the time being I'll leave the SVS set like this, although I may lose some low end umph which hopefully my new ButtKicker can make up for.

If that note from 15:45-15:51 is really only 32hz I suppose that in the recording they must have added a few db on that note and it is louder than the rest of the sequence... because I wouldn't think the PB12-Plus/2 would have that hard of a time at 32hz... I was thinking it was in the low 20's.

Maybe if I had my volume at 0, I'd be bottoming out. Most of my listening is done between -15.0 and -10.0 db. I don't think I could be in the room with my system at 0. How does one arrive at a number for "reference level"?

Haven't done a link yet, my system config is in beginning of thread.

Hey guys... quick question. I was watching the sandstorm/crash scene in Flight of the Pheonix today and I THINK my PB12-Plus/2 bottomed out. Does anyone know what frequency that scene has when the plane is quickly losing altitude and all the passengers are screaming? There's one note that is sustained for 5 or 7 seconds that I think the sub can't quite handle... I can hear a fast knock-knock-knock coming from the cabinet.

This is strange to me because I've never been able to do this with anything else other than playing bass test CD's with VERY low frequencies at high volumes.

Is the bass during that part of the scene just that low?

I did hook up a ButtKicker LFE today finally which compliments the PB12-Plus/2 very well! I'll have to tweak that thing tomorrow.

Oh by the way, I only have the subwoofer gain on the SVS amp at about 10:00 or maybe 1/3 of the way up which I wouldn't think would be overdoing it. I have one port plugged... would plugging two (or unplugging the 1) do anything to minimize what I believe is the subwoofers bottoming out?

Brutal,
Out of curiosity, how big is the rest of the house that is open to the sub?
How far is the sub from the listening position?
Didn't see anyone else ask so I will, you did calibrate with an spl meter right?

I'd guess that there is an additional 5000-6000 cubic feet that the sub "sees" in addition the the room it's in.

The sub is right behind my listening position (about 2')... it is in the corner and my couch is angled against that corner.

I did use an SPL meter to calibrate everything, but I am a bass junky and do like the sub a few db above everything else (generally speaking, not for all applications).

I'd guess that there is an additional 5000-6000 cubic feet that the sub "sees" in addition the the room it's in.

The sub is right behind my listening position (about 2')... it is in the corner and my couch is angled against that corner.

I did use an SPL meter to calibrate everything, but I am a bass junky and do like the sub a few db above everything else (generally speaking, not for all applications).


Hmmmm....my area is about the same size, my sub is 3ft behind the couch, 8ft
from the corner and back when I had plus/2 (have ultra/2 now) I never bottomed
the drivers, even at reference, 20Hz tune and 6bd hot.

Have you done frequency response graph to see it you have a room induced peak
at the point where the sub bottoms?

Alright with all settings being equal and removing the single port (changing my tune from 20hz to 25hz) the sub at reference volume BARELY hits the bottom out point now. I suppose for the time being I'll leave the SVS set like this, although I may lose some low end umph which hopefully my new ButtKicker can make up for.

If that note from 15:45-15:51 is really only 32hz I suppose that in the recording they must have added a few db on that note and it is louder than the rest of the sequence... because I wouldn't think the PB12-Plus/2 would have that hard of a time at 32hz... I was thinking it was in the low 20's.
Actually ~30 Hz is the most problematic area for ~20 Hz tuned subs. That's where the cone excursion is at its highest. Around tuning it's minimal and below tuning high pass filter cuts away the lows.

Reference level isn't an easy job in a huge room like yours. You simply need more subwoofers. Another Plus/2 would bring +6 dB.

I had a similar experience with my Ultra/2 on U-571 depth charge scene. One change I did make. I had my sub along my right wall, backs up to windows with
heavey curtains. Sometimes a subs port blows out air, sometimes it also sucks in
air. My curtains were getting sucked up against the ports. I put a small box
between my sub and the curtains and have not heard the noise again. (although
I have not re-run that scene)

Actually ~30 Hz is the most problematic area for ~20 Hz tuned subs. That's where the cone excursion is at its highest. Around tuning it's minimal and below tuning high pass filter cuts away the lows.

Reference level isn't an easy job in a huge room like yours. You simply need more subwoofers. Another Plus/2 would bring +6 dB.

Very interesting Richard! I had no idea that frequencies in the 30hz range were the toughest on a sub. I always assumed the lower the frequency the more stress the sub had.

I just ordered the the PC-Ultra, its in transit on time and im getting scared. Really though, I have mirrors glued to the wall and im beginning to have second thoughts. I know the whole room is going to be shaking im not sure about the mirrors. I had the flat mirrors cut down into three panes and a dark mirror frame created around them. The flat mirror is quite antique about 60 years old with bevels carved in. They have been on the wall for about 21 years...

Anyone with experience in this??

SVS will go in the corner behind the chair. I might have to place it away from the wall
maybe by the TV.

trapez,
Your best bet is to inspect the mirrors and then perform a trial run for a designated amount of time. Then inspect the mirrors again. See if there is any change to the structure. Go from there. I think you catch my drift.

If the dark mirror frame is wood, if you are willing to look at a few screwheads, or countersink them and cover them up with woodputty and matching stain, find the wall studs and get in a couple screws at both the bottom and the top if possible.

Very interesting Richard! I had no idea that frequencies in the 30hz range were the toughest on a sub. I always assumed the lower the frequency the more stress the sub had.

In a sealed sub, the lower the frequency, the harder the driver works. In a ported sub, the driver "feels the load" of the tuning frequency (ie, @ 20 Hz), and the driver does not need to move very far in order to get high SPL.

If you want a fairly easy way to understand this, take an empty Pop bottle ... blow into it too softly, and you get nothing. Blow too hard, you get nothing. Blow into the bottle just right, and you get the tone, which is the tuning frequency of the bottle's interior.

NOW ... GUYS ... let us not have any remarks about blowing just right, ok ? :p :eek: :rolleyes: :D

NOW ... GUYS ... let us not have any remarks about blowing just right, ok ? :p :eek: :rolleyes: :D

Priceless! :D

I've owned a 20-39 PC Plus for about 2 years now, and I have to say, it's probably the most dissapointing piece of AV equipment I've owned :(.

I say this with a sad heart, because the folks at SVS are fantastic, and I've tried working with them a few times when I first got the unit. I had a fairly big space, so I was sure that was the issue. I tried different placements, near the viewing area or various corners, and none of it seemed to help.

Finally, I took the sub in exasperation to an 11x10 spare bedroom I had, just so I could finally be "blown away" by the bass that everyone here raves about. I closd the door, cranked the gain, and prepared to be launched to the moon. Here was an 11x10x9 room with carpet on a wooden frame - here we go! And as always, dissapointment.

The 20-39 PC+ puts out very good, deep bass. It has, to me, absolutely no punch whatsoever. I can run my SPL meter, and the sub will easily go loud enough that it's painful, and the DBs back it up. Yet nonetheless, as much as I can feel the rumble, there is simply no punch to it. I can 'feel' the 20-39 just as well all the way across the house as I can where I'm listening. The bass penetrates really well, but there's no SPL at the source.

If "punch" is SPL, then I guess that's what I feel is lacking. No matter the DB, no matter if I'm rattling every item in the house, you don't actually feel the sub in the listening area. I can think of several times watching Pearl Harbor, watching the bomb drop, waiting for it to hit the battleship, expecting to be blown away, and then ..... the plates in the kitchen rattle, but sitting next to the sub, squat.

The SVS is more accurate, deep, and faithful at reproducing and holding low notes that any sub I've owned. But sadly, unless I'm doing something terribly wrong, between my home AND the new appartment I've moved to, multiple devices such as my amp and separate MP3 players just to "test it out" and make sure my Onkyo wasn't busted, I have never once felt the 20-39 PC+ hit with anything resembling 'pressure'.

I guess some people want accurate bass and a lot of rumble, and for them the 20-39PC+ is perfect. Me? I like punch, and I guess the 20-39 is simply not the sub for my listening preference.

It makes me sad though, because it seems like a fantastic product from a fantastic company.

Have you considered upgrading to something else? It seems that 2 years is a long time to live with a sub that makes you "sad."

I've probably averaged a sub upgrade every year for the last 5 years give or take, and that is with me being generally happy with what I have, LOL.

A 20-39 PC Plus in a sealed 11x10x9 room (990 cu ft) and no umph? Something is surely atypical in your setup.

Some obvious questions that comes to mind:

How is your sub configured?
Have you calibrated with spl meter & a calibration disk like avia or dve?
What are the spl readings like at the listening positions?
Are speakers set to large or small?
What receiver/ssp are you using?
Are you using any kind of dynamic / nightime filter setting?
What crossover setting are you using in the receiver?
Are you using a crossover setting in the sub?
Have you tried a plot of your room with & without sub?
Are you aware where the peaks & valleys occur?
Have you considered any room treatment solutions?
Have you noticed any increased bass umph from movies like U-571, Unbreakable, LOTR, WOTW, Finding Nemo, etc?

Here are some websites that you may or may not find helpful on subwoofer setup :

Avia Subwoofer Calibration Tips (http://www.robbroy.net/HT/AviaSubCalibration.cfm)

Common Subwoofer Set-Up Errors (http://www.robbroy.net/HT/SubwooferErrors.cfm)

Speaker Placement (http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/loudspeakers/speaker_placement.php)

Subwoofer Placement Procedure (http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/loudspeakers/crawling_for_bass.php)

Subwoofer Setup Guide (http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3418)

Room Layout and Speaker Setup (http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout.html)

Two things to try.

If you have not done this already, take all the port plugs out and switch the subsonic filter to the highest frequency. This will shift SPL from low bass to mid bass and increase total SPL.

Your room dimensions are so close to one another, you have some real cancellation areas at some frequencies. To test this, put the sub in one corner and you go stand in another, or place the sub in a spot that is not on a line connecting the center points of opposite walls and stand beside it.

SPL does not = punch.

Correct linear frequency response + SPL = punch

Try posting a frequency response graph of your room, and the kind folks here will certainly be happy to assist. Without that baseline measurement, there is just too much conjecture to make a reasonably accurate assessment.


Tim

SPL does not = punch.

Correct linear frequency response + SPL = punch

Try posting a frequency response graph of your room, and the kind folks here will certainly be happy to assist. Without that baseline measurement, there is just too much conjecture to make a reasonably accurate assessment.


Tim

Thanks for the good responses folks. I'll try out your suggestions tonight, so I can give you some more info on whether it helps or doesn't affect anything.

One more thing to try is upping your crossover frequency to 100Hz. This will make the sub more localizable and in general limits your sub placement options to close to your mains. But if your main speakers are weak below 100Hz letting the sub handle <100Hz may help.

What is the build quality of the SVS-PB12 NSD? I am trying to decide between that or the HSU VTF-MKIII.

build quality is excellent.

Nice flat black finish, rounded edges, the cover is very well put together and fits very securly using high quality metal inserts that fit firmly in place, plus amp looks great in the back.

I really love the look because it is not one that DOMINATES....it is simply just there. The look doesnt make you say WOW, but the sound sure does.

bgillyjcu-

How is the mid-range on the sub? Do you like it for both home theater and music? I want something that makes feel like I bought a sub but near the $700 range.

Here is the deal with my PB-12NSD.

I do not really use it for music. 95%+ is used for Movies and HDTV Viewing. (Although I watched OASIS LIVE on INHD in Dolby Digital and it simply sounded AMAZING...sub performance was VERY VERY VERY GOOD!)

Personally I really love my Sub.......really packs a deep punch in my room. I have it crossed over at 80hz and I have flat response in my room at my listening position and honestly from 18-80hz the bass is clean and powerful.

There has been a lot of debate over the new HSU subs compared to the SVS sub.

If you are trying to compare directly the PB-12nsd $600 should be compared to the VTF-3 MK 2 $630.

I wouldn't trade my sub for that HSU, but I'm sure that there are people who would disagree....once again, thats personal preference.


To stay under $700 that SVS is really your only option...HSU does offer the VTF-3 MK3 for $650 which from what I read might give you a little more punch in the mid-bass (40-80hz) than the SVS. But then again remember that with more performance the price is going up more and more...

It really comes down to this.........HOW MUCH can you spend? That number will determine which sub you should really get.

Hey everyone!
Looking for a little advice on buying an SVS sub.
I am in the process of building an HTPC w/ an auzentech xmeridian w/ upgraded opamps output to an onkyo 604. My speakers are the weak link in my system,
a matched set of 4 acoustic research arxp62 and matching center arxp242c. I currently live in an apartment, but with be buying a house soon. I will be upgrading the speakers, and want to go with a sub that I wont have to upgrade.
The AR speakers can be found on a few threads in the forums, but I cant link cos Im a noob. (6.5 / 1 bookshelf) Can I realistically use an overpowered sub and just turn the gain down, or limit its power in the receiver or computer? Im also not sure if I should go w/ a cylinder or traditional sub? Looks aside, which performs better? The subs Im considering are: PB12-NSD, PB12-PLUS, SB12-PLUS, 20-39 PCI, 20-39PC-PLUS, or if im really gonna overpower my system Ill go with - PB10-NSD. Room size is about 20x30, with an attached 15x15 opening/den and attached 15x15 kitchen (doorway into this one)
Will mostly power games on the comp, and movies. Some cable TV and music listening.
I really wanna go with the plus after reading reviews, and the forums... looks like a keeper for new system, whether its stand alone or with another plus.


Thanks

Robert

Robert, considering the effort you have put into your system I would recommend you look at the Plus driver subs on your list: the 20-39 Plus or the PB12-Plus.

The problem is that your very large room and connected space are really too big for any of the single driver subs. For that reason I would recommend you upgrade to the PB12-Plus/2 if your budget allows.

The SB12-Plus and PB10 do not have enough output for your room volume IMO.

Hi,

newbie here but I have been lurking for a couple of years. I am happy to say that I am ordering (2) SVS PB10nsd's today. I can't wait until they get here! I would of like to gone to the PB12's, but no way they will fit. Nonetheless, my room is slightly under 2000 CuFt., so the 10's should be outstanding anyway. I have had a long discussion with Tom at SVS, he has been super!

This is a major and well need upgrade from the Previous 75watt yamaha sub and 75w M&K I just sold.

Can't wait to hear these, so stay tuned!!

Mike

See my profile for my gear

Question for you guys.

I have a pair of 20-39 CS + with the 1st version of the drivers I believe, so does anybody know what would the improvement be if I was to upgrade them to the 12.2 version?

Hey Mike (genesis471),

I also have dual PB-10s as a temporary setup. Before going SVS, I had several Velos. When I decided to try SVS I originally went with a PC 20-39+, then a PB12 Plus/2 then an Ultra/2. They have all been phenomenal performers, especially when price is thrown into the equation. I really enjoy experimenting with the different models.

A friend made me an offer so I sold my Ultra/2 in hopes of eventually getting the new and improved Ultra/2 at the end of '07. However, I can honestly say you will be blown away by the perfomance of a single PB-10, let alone 2! Before parting with my Ultra/2 I took some measurements with an SPL meter.
My room is < 2000 cubic feet when all doors are closed. I cannot recall the movie/scene that I used (LOTR ring drop I think). But, I calibrated the Ultra/2 at 3 db hot and turned my receiver to -0 and the Ultra/2 registered 119.3 db at the listening position. I then setup using 1 PB-10 and got 115.8 with the same settings (keep in mind this is much louder than I or anyone I know listens to any movie). I then calibrated using dual PB-10s and got 119.1 db!
I was blown away by the performance. Obviously, I did not need more sub than I had, I just buy them, experiment, then sell. It is a hobby of sorts. These things are amazing performers for under $450! My friends (and wife) think I am insane even considering another huge multi-thousand dollar sub when I have the PB-10s....Let me know what you think when you get those babies setup.

Joe

Hey Juan,

I am told that each iteration of the PLUS driver yeilds +1 to 2 db each. 12.1 upgraded to 12.2 should give you at least 2 db for the pair maybe slightly more. The same should be true for 12.2 to 12.3. The quality of sound is whole other animal that is very subjective...

Joe

I have had my subs for 3 years now and I have an opportunity to upgrade them both to the 12.2 drivers for a total of $190.00, just wondering if it is worth it.

I have had my subs for 3 years now and I have an opportunity to upgrade them both to the 12.2 drivers for a total of $190.00, just wondering if it is worth it.


Um call me crazy but id go with the 12.3 drivers.

Um call me crazy but id go with the 12.3 drivers.


Do you know what the price would be?

Juan

12.3 drivers would be $169 each.

here is the link on svs's website to buy them

http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-plus12_3woofer2.cfm

If it was me......I'd spend the $338 and upgrade rather than the $190 for the 12.2

But it really comes down to if you have the cash. If you only have $190, then sure thats going to be a great upgrade, but for only $140 more there is an even better upgrade.

Just some food for thought :) Hope this all helped!

Juan

12.3 drivers would be $169 each.

here is the link on svs's website to buy them

http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-plus12_3woofer2.cfm

If it was me......I'd spend the $338 and upgrade rather than the $190 for the 12.2

But it really comes down to if you have the cash. If you only have $190, then sure thats going to be a great upgrade, but for only $140 more there is an even better upgrade.

Just some food for thought :) Hope this all helped!

Thanks for the info, but I am now thinking about getting rid of my current subs and going with a PB Ultra. The wife wants something more furniture looking and has grown tired of the cylilnder look. Now I just need to decide between the PB Ultra and PB12 Plus/2.

Anybody know if the current PB Ultra would outperform my 1st generation Dual 20-39CS +'s?

how was the sound quality of the 2 pb-10's compared to the ultra/2 and the plus/2?

how was the sound quality of the 2 pb-10's compared to the ultra/2 and the plus/2?


Well, didn't do a whole lot of side by side comparisons due to the fact that Ultra/2 was a beast to move into and out of the corner behind all of the A/V equipment, cables, etc.
I did notice a quality difference between the Plus/2 and Ultra/2, but mostly only when pushed a bit. The Ultras did sound slightly different to me on some material, but most people really could not discern between the two. I thought the PB-10s sounded just as good as the Ultra/2. Having plenty of headroom in the subwoofer dept. is the key to a good result. The PB-10s never seem to break a sweat (in my little room), they just reach a maximum and that's it. I am sure the Ultra/2 had plenty more to go but my ears (and house) could not tolerate any more. Near 120 db peaks is hearing loss by any measure...With two I still have enough headroom under MOST situations to yield excellent sound quality. I wouldn't believe it if I did not experience it, these 10s really are excellent.

If you are in the market for a Plus/2 and can wait for the new Ultra-13 I bet it will be well worth your while in output and quality. I just can't wait to get my hands on the new Ultra! I think I will try the single driver first. There will be two PB-10s for sale in the next couple of months....

Hey Mike (genesis471),

I also have dual PB-10s as a temporary setup. Before going SVS, I had several Velos. When I decided to try SVS I originally went with a PC 20-39+, then a PB12 Plus/2 then an Ultra/2. They have all been phenomenal performers, especially when price is thrown into the equation. I really enjoy experimenting with the different models.

A friend made me an offer so I sold my Ultra/2 in hopes of eventually getting the new and improved Ultra/2 at the end of '07. However, I can honestly say you will be blown away by the perfomance of a single PB-10, let alone 2! Before parting with my Ultra/2 I took some measurements with an SPL meter.
My room is < 2000 cubic feet when all doors are closed. I cannot recall the movie/scene that I used (LOTR ring drop I think). But, I calibrated the Ultra/2 at 3 db hot and turned my receiver to -0 and the Ultra/2 registered 119.3 db at the listening position. I then setup using 1 PB-10 and got 115.8 with the same settings (keep in mind this is much louder than I or anyone I know listens to any movie). I then calibrated using dual PB-10s and got 119.1 db!
I was blown away by the performance. Obviously, I did not need more sub than I had, I just buy them, experiment, then sell. It is a hobby of sorts. These things are amazing performers for under $450! My friends (and wife) think I am insane even considering another huge multi-thousand dollar sub when I have the PB-10s....Let me know what you think when you get those babies setup.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the great bit of info! It really sounds (pun intended) that I'm in for a real treat! My room to is < 2000 closed up. It will take a few days to get them setup properly, because I moved my gear to an 'in wall' setup (well vented by the way), and now I need to order up some Blue Jean cables to make the runs again. Plus the time involved getting them calibrated properly + work... you kow the drill! But I will let everyone here know what I think.

Thanks,

Mike

PS My order didn't get placed today cause the guys are so busy at CES I'm waiting for them to invoice me so I save 5% on a pair! Hopefully the invoice is in my email tomorrow morning! :)

Hello!

I am on the fence about ordering a SVS PB12-NSD/2 (rec by the SVS crew for my setup) , My only concern at this point is the truck shipping.

Those who have had an SVS sub home delivered via Truck..any issues? Was it a pain getting the sub off the truck..did it arrive we packed etc??

any comments welcome from those who have had experience receiving one of these heavier sub deliveries via truck

thanks!

Hello!

I am on the fence about ordering a SVS PB12-NSD/2 (rec by the SVS crew for my setup) , My only concern at this point is the truck shipping.

Those who have had an SVS sub home delivered via Truck..any issues? Was it a pain getting the sub off the truck..did it arrive we packed etc??

any comments welcome from those who have had experience receiving one of these heavier sub deliveries via truck

thanks!

Worry not - they come double boxed, on a pallet, and after having 14 SVS subs delivered here in perfect condition, I can pretty safely tell you it will be fine.

Now ... for a good idea, get a handtruck, they come in handy .... :D

No worries mate. Unless you get a real jerk driver, most of them are helpful. As indicated the packaging is first rate. Two average men can unload even the Ultra/2 without a problem.

Thanks for the info, but I am now thinking about getting rid of my current subs and going with a PB Ultra. The wife wants something more furniture looking and has grown tired of the cylilnder look. Now I just need to decide between the PB Ultra and PB12 Plus/2.

Anybody know if the current PB Ultra would outperform my 1st generation Dual 20-39CS +'s?

Hey Juan,

I would bet that a current PB-Ultra would be pretty close your 1st gen Plus pair, maybe a db or two superior. Although I have never heard the 12.1 drivers, I can almost guarantee it would sound more refined. I would check with Tom/Ron for a better idea. You could probably score 2 of the used 12.2 drivers on ebay for significantly less than the upgrade price from SVS. But, I if I were to upgrade I would jump to the 12.3s.

I do always prefer dual subs co-located though. Even when 1 is plenty and 2 are not driven hard at all, the extra headroom and the more visceral impact is more apealing to me. I could be imagining some of it, but 2 subs seem to give a more tactile feel even at the same SPL/db.

guess I'm a lil late on the new info on SVS's site...sweet!

I'm not gonna bother Tom with another 10Hz at reference level? question even though it is listed in the new tuning...;)

Dig the blue! :cool:

any out there post there settings on A pb 10 nsd

need a little help tweaking mine..

any out there post there settings on A pb 10 nsd

need a little help tweaking mine..

Have you already tried an SPL meter and A/V setup disk? What works in someone elses room isn't going to work in yours.

Here is a tutorial:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=47166

Hey Juan,

I would bet that a current PB-Ultra would be pretty close your 1st gen Plus pair, maybe a db or two superior. Although I have never heard the 12.1 drivers, I can almost guarantee it would sound more refined. I would check with Tom/Ron for a better idea. You could probably score 2 of the used 12.2 drivers on ebay for significantly less than the upgrade price from SVS. But, I if I were to upgrade I would jump to the 12.3s.

I do always prefer dual subs co-located though. Even when 1 is plenty and 2 are not driven hard at all, the extra headroom and the more visceral impact is more apealing to me. I could be imagining some of it, but 2 subs seem to give a more tactile feel even at the same SPL/db.


Thanks for the info, I am not in a hurry (hope my wife is not either) so guess I will wait for the 13.5" Ultra and see what the performance and cost is going to be. If I am going to make a change, I don't want a lateral change, might as well go up.

Thanks for the info, I am not in a hurry (hope my wife is not either) so guess I will wait for the 13.5" Ultra and see what the performance and cost is going to be. If I am going to make a change, I don't want a lateral change, might as well go up.

That's the probably the best route. If the Ultra is even half as impressive as it sounds like it will be, it will be well worth the wait. 2 subs are fun but 1 is much easier to setup. I would venture the new Ultra will be more than equal to several of the 1st gen cylinders.

Hi,

newbie here but I have been lurking for a couple of years. I am happy to say that I am ordering (2) SVS PB10nsd's today. I can't wait until they get here! I would of like to gone to the PB12's, but no way they will fit. Nonetheless, my room is slightly under 2000 CuFt., so the 10's should be outstanding anyway. I have had a long discussion with Tom at SVS, he has been super!

This is a major and well need upgrade from the Previous 75watt yamaha sub and 75w M&K I just sold.

Can't wait to hear these, so stay tuned!!

Mike

See my profile for my gear

2 of them huh. That should be pretty sweet. I myself am doing two PB12 NSD's. Are you colocating them in the same corner or spreading them out? Colocating can get you a +6db gain.

2 of them huh. That should be pretty sweet. I myself am doing two PB12 NSD's. Are you colocating them in the same corner or spreading them out? Colocating can get you a +6db gain.

Hi,

Yes going for 2! I have paid for them as of last night, so I'm just waiting now for the day they show!
I will not have them in the same corner, in fact they will be in the front left, and front right corners... of course there will be some tweaking.

Have fun with your Pb12's as well!!

Mike

Hi,

Yes going for 2! I have paid for them as of last night, so I'm just waiting now for the day they show!
I will not have them in the same corner, in fact they will be in the front left, and front right corners... of course there will be some tweaking.

Have fun with your Pb12's as well!!

Mike


MIke you should really consider stacking them if possible. Ed and everyone else from SVS says that is by far the best option for maximizing performance!!! Jeff and I have asked EXTENSIVE questions about this....Jeff is right, Colocating can get you a +6db gain. (which is INCREDIBLE!)

(i realize this might not be possible because of room dimensions or something else like W.A.F.....LOL)

MIke you should really consider stacking them if possible. Ed and everyone else from SVS says that is by far the best option for maximizing performance!!! Jeff and I have asked EXTENSIVE questions about this....Jeff is right, Colocating can get you a +6db gain. (which is INCREDIBLE!)

(i realize this might not be possible because of room dimensions or something else like W.A.F.....LOL)

In total agreement. We both have asked a ton of questions and have also tried both scenarios. Stacked in a corner and spread out on opposite sides of the wall. The stacking, if possible is the best way to go. I think it looks pretty cool too. Those two 10's stacked on top of each other would be sweet.

Hi,

Yes going for 2! I have paid for them as of last night, so I'm just waiting now for the day they show!
I will not have them in the same corner, in fact they will be in the front left, and front right corners... of course there will be some tweaking.

Have fun with your Pb12's as well!!

Mike

Anxious to hear your impressions on them. I really considered dual 10's instead of dual 12's. Decided on going with the bigger woofer and port though.

Anyone have a SPL (sound pressure level) meter that i could borrow?

The SVS folks were out of stock so couldn't order one with my sub thru them. Also, the Radio Shacks around my place are OOS too.

I'm based in Sunnyvale, CA so if anyone around the bay area wouldn't mind lending me theirs it'll be greatly appreciated. I should be receiving my sub today and cant wait to set it up correctly this weekend.

thanks

After several months of lurking on this thread, I just snagged a Rosenut SB12+ B-stock off the SVS site. I presume it's a CES demo... hopefully not too scratched up. I notice that while the U.S. site cites a 425 watt amp, the U.K. site rates it at 25 watts R.M.S. 'Must be a really strange looking sine wave they're fitting that square under.... or the U.S. 425 figure represents peak, so-called "music power" on a good day in a vacuum at zero degrees Kelvin!!!!!!

I'm certain it's a type on the U.K. site.

Anyone have a SPL (sound pressure level) meter that i could borrow?

The SVS folks were out of stock so couldn't order one with my sub thru them. Also, the Radio Shacks around my place are OOS too.

I'm based in Sunnyvale, CA so if anyone around the bay area wouldn't mind lending me theirs it'll be greatly appreciated. I should be receiving my sub today and cant wait to set it up correctly this weekend.

thanks

Next day air from rad shack online...

MIke you should really consider stacking them if possible. Ed and everyone else from SVS says that is by far the best option for maximizing performance!!! Jeff and I have asked EXTENSIVE questions about this....Jeff is right, Colocating can get you a +6db gain. (which is INCREDIBLE!)

(i realize this might not be possible because of room dimensions or something else like W.A.F.....LOL)

Hi,

Thanks for the advice! I will likely try them in the corners, but I can also stack them I think. I have custom cabinetry which essentially is a large entertainment center that everything sits flush in. I am working on modifying the cabinerty. When I get the stuff I order and everything situated, I will post pic's.
Everyone says subs are non-directional, but I listen to a lot of concerts and I can tell where the sub bass is coming from, and hoping to even that out - now that is only based on an old sub that had little headroom, so we shall see! I can do plenty of experimenting so they kick ass! Oh, WAF is an issue,but only when she's home! :eek:

In total agreement. We both have asked a ton of questions and have also tried both scenarios. Stacked in a corner and spread out on opposite sides of the wall. The stacking, if possible is the best way to go. I think it looks pretty cool too. Those two 10's stacked on top of each other would be sweet.

I'm convinced and must give it a try!

Anxious to hear your impressions on them. I really considered dual 10's instead of dual 12's. Decided on going with the bigger woofer and port though.

Got a confirmation on saturday, and they will ship this monday or tuesday. It will take me a week or two to get things done, and I'm on vacation the 25th thru Feb 1st. So I should have time to dial it in!

Thanks guys for the kind advice! :)

Mike

Its been a week since I got my PB10-NSD and I just ordered a second one.

Well, the SVS PC-Ultra arrived at my doorstep about 5 days from order.
Below are pictures of the PCU in and out of the box. Packaging was great with no damage to the woofer. However, you can see from one of the pic at the bottom right corner a slight cut in to the box.

After listening and feeling the PCU shake the walls I decided that I really need to do something about the mirrors glued to the wall. I took Kipp and ggunnell advice here at AVS however I went one step further. I went to Home Depot for supplies and enclosed the mirrors in a wood frame. Hopefully they will hold, if anything maybe the 4 inch screws at the bottom, use to hold the frame may act as a catch all, if not ill post the damage!

http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00248.JPG
http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00249.JPG

bottom right shows ups damage to the outside box, the speaker showed no sign of damage.

http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00250.JPG
http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00251.JPG
http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00252.JPG
http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00253.JPG
http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00254.JPG
http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00255.JPG
I gave my PCU a nice hug and carried her inside
http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00256.JPG
http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00259.JPG
Free SVS Pen!!!

continue in next post...

...continue, repeat quote

"After listening and feeling the PCU shake the walls I decided that I really need to do something about the mirrors glued to the wall. I took Kipp and ggunnell advice here at AVS however I went one step further. I went to Home Depot for supplies and enclosed the mirrors in a wood frame. Hopefully they will hold, if anything maybe the 4 inch screws at the bottom, use to hold the frame may act as a catch all, if not ill post the damage!"


http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00314.JPG
If the mirror falls ill post the pic!

http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00316.JPG
PCU hidding in the corner

http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00318.JPG
frame around mirror, will it hold??
(I might shop around for stronger wood, I know those have to be heavy)

http://jm-solutions.com/svs/DSC00320.JPG
from a distance with low lighting shes hard to find.


thanks AVS members!

Ok I have a real noobish question, my apologies.

I have an old Denon AVR-3300 Receiver (I know I should upgrade :p), I just picked up an SVS SB12-plus subwoofer. After looking at the inputs of the SB12-plus and the outputs of my Denon AVR-3300 it looks like I want to use an RCA cable to go from the Denon to the SVS, correct? Do I want to use TWO RCA cables? What is confusing is when I look at the back of the Denon it shows this for Preamp Outs (periods added for spacing):

...........................CENTER..........
L......O..........O..........O.........O...
R......O..........O..........O.........O...
..MULTI/...................SUB............
..EFFECT.SURROUND.WOOFER.FRONT.

So obviously the "R" SUB WOOFER out looks like what I should use, should I also use the above "L" output even though it is labeled CENTER or will this have the wrong signal attached to it (after surround sound processing takes place)?

I want to order my cable(s) from monoprice before my subwoofer arrives and I just want to make sure I pickup the right cables. Also if I only use the "R" SUB WOOFER output is it recommended that I split this into 2 RCA cables and input them both into the SB12-Plus? I am sure this is a real stupid question, and my apologies for asking, but this is my 1st sub.

This cable (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023601&p_id=620&seq=1&format=2&style=) should be fine right?

ONE last question :)
My apartment is 19x13x11' = ~2700 c.f. will I be happy with this sub? Here are pics of my apartment, my TV is parallel to the windows with my couch about 6' away from the TV:
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/3311/frontjr1.png
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6329/backgr3.png

Gagnon, the Center and Subwoofer outlets are neither right nor left. Hook up your SB12+ to the lower one (Subwoofer) and you'll be set.

The cable you selected should be fine. There is no need to use a "Y" connector on your SVS sub. (IIRC, SVS's manual mentions this.)

I'm sure you'll be more than happy with your new sub. I'm celebrating my PC+'s first anniversary. :) It's in a similar sized room, and has been wonderful. (Although I'm not one of those who insist on 120dB SPL's. They'd want two! ;) )

Thanks for the pics, Trapez! Who gets to sit in the corner chair? :)

Thanks Macfan, I feel my current system definitely lacks punch, I have NHT's 3's a 3c, and AZ's for surround.

So I guess my noob Q #2 is which input does it go into the back of the SB12-Plus (couldn't find the manual online):
http://www.svsound.com/sb12plus_ros...aight_basic.jpg
I would guess one of the RCA inputs in the upper right of the pic above?

Is the sub smart enough to know only 1 of the 2 inputs was connected, or do I need to make any adjustment on the sub?

Gagnon, it doesn't matter which input you use on the SB12+. The incoming signal is summed internally, so the sub doesn't "care" which one is connected or whether both are. No user adjustments are required either way. (For some reason, your link would not work for me, so I couldn't check the pic you mentioned, but your description of the hook up location sounds right.)

The manual is here (http://www.svsound.com/manuals/pb1plusmanualonline.pdf) (assuming my link works for you ;) ).

I just got my PB12+/2 up and running. Took a while to find the right balance but after several tests I think I got it right (thanks to the SPL). Well, I put on DTS version WOTW and I could not believe the incredible earthquake sound I received. My HT is huge, 20x30 with about 8-9 feet ceilings for about 5000cf that goes into a kitchen area and dinning room (8500cf total). I run the bass +5db (hot). I listened at -23DB on Yamaha 6090 receiver. The scene when the aliens come up from the streets was fantastic! The rumbling shook my far back wall and I thought my screen door was coming loose. I actually felt the waves against my body and the sub is 15 feet away! When the rays hit people I about sh!t myself! I am so happy! But I have one problem...I think I am a bass addict. Now I plan on purchase the new Ultra PB 13 and stack it on top of the PB12+/2. I guess I want to explode all my windows. :eek:

psychdoctor,

funny, your room description sounds exactly like what I have. I also have PB12+/2 paired with 6090. I love the set-up. I normally watch my movies at -3db. the bass is awesome.



I just got my PB12+/2 up and running. Took a while to find the right balance but after several tests I think I got it right (thanks to the SPL). Well, I put on DTS version WOTW and I could not believe the incredible earthquake sound I received. My HT is huge, 20x30 with about 8-9 feet ceilings for about 5000cf that goes into a kitchen area and dinning room (8500cf total). I run the bass +5db (hot). I listened at -23DB on Yamaha 6090 receiver. The scene when the aliens come up from the streets was fantastic! The rumbling shook my far back wall and I thought my screen door was coming loose. I actually felt the waves against my body and the sub is 15 feet away! When the rays hit people I about sh!t myself! I am so happy! But I have one problem...I think I am a bass addict. Now I plan on purchase the new Ultra PB 13 and stack it on top of the PB12+/2. I guess I want to explode all my windows. :eek:

I was hoping the new Ultras would have this option .... :confused:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a344/Sbwillie/svsSSULTRA.jpg

Hello

My SVS PB12-NSD/2 arrived Friday. Unpacked and did a quick and dirty set up yesterday. So far I am very impressed. This sub seems to have unlimited power and punch (compared to my old KSW-12 :) )

I connected the sub to my Yammy RX-V2700 and ran the YPAO, After reviewing the results and doing some of my own corrections here are my settings

all speakers set to small
Crossover in Yammy set to 80hz
SVS set in 20 hz mode (one port blocked, filter dial set to 20)
volume/gain during set up at 10 o'clock
volume/gain during use 12 o'clock

the Yamaha set the sub distance at 12 feet even though its only about 3-4 away from the sweet spot (where the ypao mic was) anyone else see this as well? should I adjust it manually to actual distance? The sub is cornered and is at the end of the couch so I am unsure if the couch itself is "blocking" some of the sound waves...is that possible? its in a corner, has about 3" of clearance to the side wall and is just about touching the couch, almost like an endtable would sit...is it to closed in? just a thought...


anyway, I plan to calibrate with an SPL meter in the next few weeks.

PB +/2 owner here--upgraded from an M&K v2b 12 (sealed)... running with the 20hz tune (one port blocked).

I've had it a couple weeks and worked through calibration and crawl tests to find the best spot (turns out front right corner-loaded yields no "nulls" in any of my listening positions). Ed at SVS has been such a stud helping me out...

I am truly impressed with the headroom of this beast!

Music is a real (gross understatement) surprise--very clean and full, without boominess. My wife immediately and consistently has said it is a vast improvement over the M&K.

I was afraid of a ported design for music and was aided and abetted by some comments in other threads about the Hsu being more "musical." I cannot comment on how the Hsu might sound, it probably is fantastic, but I can say that I have no second-thoughts on the SVS with every music demo I can throw at it (I have ecclectic tastes--White Stripes, U2, John Mayer, Diana Krall, John Legend, AC/DC, B-Tribe, Jesse Cook, George Gershwin, Enya, ERA, E.S. Posthumous, etc.) No boominess, just presence and appropriate thump/slam/boom. One very cool thing about the music is Jesse Cook's guitar strings and triangle clang remain above and distinct from the "floor" of the bass--its amazing. Like I said, my wife is really impressed and that is a feat!

I'll save the superlatives, unless you want me to wax eloquent (which I gladly will).

Which brings me to my question/comment: I never hear anyone talk about the "Council scene" in FOTR EE. Everyone talks about the "ring drop" and the Mordor sequence (which are truly incredible). Still, I've never heard/felt/experienced anything quite like Frodo laying down the ring and Gandolf muttering in whatever language and the argument that ensues. I shave my head and it moves my stubble, I tell you!!! It is inexpressibly impressive--I had a sound engineer over from the University I work at and he brought his RTA with him to help me calibrate/evaluate. He was stunned and asked me where I got this sub. He was about to buy a studio Mackey (sp?), but is going to re-evaluate that after hear/feeling this +/2!

Does anyone know what hz that scene is? Is anyone else more impressed with this scene than others usually mentioned?

\ Ed at SVS has been such a stud helping me out...

\ :eek:

hv9200,
Your AVR is setting the distance of the sub greater than it really is due to low frequency latency. It does this to delay the upper frequencies from the mains. You can change it manually, but try it for a while as is.

Hello

My SVS PB12-NSD/2 arrived Friday. Unpacked and did a quick and dirty set up yesterday. So far I am very impressed. This sub seems to have unlimited power and punch (compared to my old KSW-12 :) )

I connected the sub to my Yammy RX-V2700 and ran the YPAO, After reviewing the results and doing some of my own corrections here are my settings

all speakers set to small
Crossover in Yammy set to 80hz
SVS set in 20 hz mode (one port blocked, filter dial set to 20)
volume/gain during set up at 10 o'clock
volume/gain during use 12 o'clock

the Yamaha set the sub distance at 12 feet even though its only about 3-4 away from the sweet spot (where the ypao mic was) anyone else see this as well? should I adjust it manually to actual distance? The sub is cornered and is at the end of the couch so I am unsure if the couch itself is "blocking" some of the sound waves...is that possible? its in a corner, has about 3" of clearance to the side wall and is just about touching the couch, almost like an endtable would sit...is it to closed in? just a thought...


anyway, I plan to calibrate with an SPL meter in the next few weeks.

It's likely that the Yamaha is accurately responding to the signals it is receiving -- it is possible that the mic is in a place where a reverberant bass node is overpowering the direct wavefront, or there may be a delay in bass processing in either the Yamaha or in your sub or both. Using a longer than actual distance in your setup to force your system to 'early' the sub signal is not uncommon.

The easiest way to determine the fixed 'early' to apply to your sub signal is to place the sub right beside one of your mains, and to disable the other main either in setup or by pulling a wire. Now play a tone at your selected crossover frequency, and vary the distance setting of the sub -- start with the actual distance, then add 3 feet, then 6 feet, then 9 feet. Listen for maximum volume -- then try to 'fine it down' to the nearest foot if you can. Test with drum music -- the drum must be large enough to significantly involve the sub.

Whatever extra distance you end up with, add that on to the sub distance wherever you place it

PB +/2 owner here--upgraded from an M&K v2b 12 (sealed)... running with the 20hz tune (one port blocked).

I've had it a couple weeks and worked through calibration and crawl tests to find the best spot (turns out front right corner-loaded yields no "nulls" in any of my listening positions). Ed at SVS has been such a stud helping me out...




Which brings me to my question/comment: I never hear anyone talk about the "Council scene" in FOTR EE. Everyone talks about the "ring drop" and the Mordor sequence (which are truly incredible). Still, I've never heard/felt/experienced anything quite like Frodo laying down the ring and Gandolf muttering in whatever language and the argument that ensues. I shave my head and it moves my stubble, I tell you!!! It is inexpressibly impressive--I had a sound engineer over from the University I work at and he brought his RTA with him to help me calibrate/evaluate. He was stunned and asked me where I got this sub. He was about to buy a studio Mackey (sp?), but is going to re-evaluate that after hear/feeling this +/2!

Does anyone know what hz that scene is? Is anyone else more impressed with this scene than others usually mentioned?


Hometheatre Forum has several LFE waterfalls from the movie (dozens actually) but NOT that sequence. Here's the 2 channel version (LFE will be similar but NOT exact!)


More that likely the strongest LOW freq.bass in that scene is 15-25 Hz. W'fall starts when Frodo walks up with the ring.



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a344/Sbwillie/FOTRCOUNCIL1.jpg

sbwillie--thanks for the waterfall! That's very helpful (even though it is not 5.1).

Any SVS owners have experience with the "ring council" scene to share?

I'm curious about others' take on this.

Hello

My SVS PB12-NSD/2 arrived Friday. Unpacked and did a quick and dirty set up yesterday. So far I am very impressed. This sub seems to have unlimited power and punch (compared to my old KSW-12 :) )

I connected the sub to my Yammy RX-V2700 and ran the YPAO, After reviewing the results and doing some of my own corrections here are my settings

all speakers set to small
Crossover in Yammy set to 80hz
SVS set in 20 hz mode (one port blocked, filter dial set to 20)
volume/gain during set up at 10 o'clock
volume/gain during use 12 o'clock

the Yamaha set the sub distance at 12 feet even though its only about 3-4 away from the sweet spot (where the ypao mic was) anyone else see this as well? should I adjust it manually to actual distance? The sub is cornered and is at the end of the couch so I am unsure if the couch itself is "blocking" some of the sound waves...is that possible? its in a corner, has about 3" of clearance to the side wall and is just about touching the couch, almost like an endtable would sit...is it to closed in? just a thought...


anyway, I plan to calibrate with an SPL meter in the next few weeks.

I have my PB12 Plus hooked up to my Yamaha 2700. It's placed agaisnt a side wall. The distance from where I normally seat is abou 7-8' but the Yamaha's auto setup set it at 12 '. I changed it to 10' (don't ask me why). The receiver also set my front B&W CDM7 speakers and the rear B&W CDM1 speakers "large", and the crossover at 110. I mannually set all the speakers as 'small" and the crossover at 80. I haven't used a SPL meter to calibrate it it.

Hi - I have a PB10-ISD and am looking for a slightly smaller form factor to fit a home theater I am building --

How would the SB12+ compare as to sound output?
I really like how the PB10 works in that space except for the size. I am wondering if I should just avoid disappointment and give up the space in favor of a PB10-NSD?
(How does the NSD compare to my ISD??)

Hi - I have a PB10-ISD and am looking for a slightly smaller form factor to fit a home theater I am building --

How would the SB12+ compare as to sound output?
I really like how the PB10 works in that space except for the size. I am wondering if I should just avoid disappointment and give up the space in favor of a PB10-NSD?
(How does the NSD compare to my ISD??)


It would take 2 or 3 SB12s to equal the PB-10 below 30 Hz. Above the 35 Hz the Sb12 plus will have an edge.
The guys at SVS can give a more accurate and technical comparison...

It would take 2 or 3 SB12s to equal the PB-10 below 30 Hz. Above the 35 Hz the Sb12 plus will have an edge.
The guys at SVS can give a more accurate and technical comparison...


2 or 3 -SB12+'s = 1-PB-10 ISD? :eek:

I have had the svs 20-39pc+ for several years.

I decided to try tuning it to a lower 16hz frequency bu can't get the top lid off.

Even tried to pry it up with a screwdriver.

Any tricks of the trade to help me get the top off so I can insert the port plug?
I'm assuming that the metal rim, not just the mesh inner rim, has to come up somehow.

Thanks.

Shelly

I have had the svs 20-39pc+ for several years.

I decided to try tuning it to a lower 16hz frequency bu can't get the top lid off.

Even tried to pry it up with a screwdriver.

Any tricks of the trade to help me get the top off so I can insert the port plug?
I'm assuming that the metal rim, not just the mesh inner rim, has to come up somehow.

Thanks.

Shelly


You are correct, the metal rim has to come up with the mesh. Mine were hard to take off as well.

I have had the svs 20-39pc+ for several years.

I decided to try tuning it to a lower 16hz frequency bu can't get the top lid off.

Even tried to pry it up with a screwdriver.

Any tricks of the trade to help me get the top off so I can insert the port plug?
I'm assuming that the metal rim, not just the mesh inner rim, has to come up somehow.

Thanks.

Shelly

It's on there tight (better that than rattling). I doubt this is the sanctioned SVS method, but I use a small flat head screwdriver and slowly pry the metal rim up by going around bit by bit. you are right that it is the entire metal rim and not just the grill (the grill is part of the metal ring around the outside).

-Robb

I have had the svs 20-39pc+ for several years.

I decided to try tuning it to a lower 16hz frequency bu can't get the top lid off.

Even tried to pry it up with a screwdriver.

Any tricks of the trade to help me get the top off so I can insert the port plug?
I'm assuming that the metal rim, not just the mesh inner rim, has to come up somehow.

Thanks.

Shelly

Those tops can be on quite tight. Of course, that is by design to prevent rattles and the like. Try taking a wooden block (or something like a rubber mallet) and holding it against the fabric cover and carefully tapping up from the bottom at various places around the bottom edge of the metal rim. The wood should be soft enough to prevent bending and marring the metal and its finish. Avoid prying unless you can do it very carefully or you may tear the fabric cover and/or chip the paint...

2 or 3 -SB12+'s = 1-PB-10 ISD? :eek:

Yep, like it or not the SB12 is a low power + small + sealed sub. It is a great subwoofer, but still cannot overcome the laws of physics. That combination yields better SPLs above 30Hz, below that the sub needs several times more power and equalization to force the driver to produce each octave below that. Of course that process produces tremendous heat, more excursion, etc. As frequencies rise the better the output of the SB12 with peak output probably around 50Hz or so.

Below 25-30Hz is where the PB-10 shines in its ability to produce in room response down to < 18Hz with authority. There is no way to overcome physics with regard to enclosure volume, porting/tuning, power ,etc.

2 or 3 -SB12+'s = 1-PB-10 ISD? :eek:

You've got to remember that's the narrow bandwidth at the lowest frequencies. Small sealed vs. large vented... At the deepest frequencies it's not a fair fight.

I have a SB12-Plus next to a PB12-Ultra/2 on a switcher, and at all but the loudest volumes and/or deepest (e.g., pipe organ) material, you'd be hard pressed to hear the difference on music. For HT, especially at high volumes, the PB12-Ultra/2 runs away (or, more accurately, jogs backwards chanting na na na na nah). For purposes of comparison, you'd have to put the SB12-Plus up against similar sized and priced sealed subs.

If I had a music only system in a medium-sized room, or a small space for HT and a need for a small footprint, the SB12-Plus would be all I need.

-Robb

Thanks guys. I was thinking a kind of pecking order of pb10, sb12, pb12, etc. in terms of output. I went with the SB12 due to its WAF and the fact that I listen to music 95% of the time at moderate volumes. I understand that enclosure volume has a lot to do with output at lower frequencies, and even the pb10 has twice the volume (cubic ft not loudness) of the SB12. I don't really consider the SB12 low power at 425 watts, but maybe others do. Thanks robbroy for putting it in proper perspective, especially movies vs. music. BTW, based on my REQW runs, the SB12 starts to roll off at about 23 hz in my room. Not too bad for a little guy.

Thanks guys. I was thinking a kind of pecking order of pb10, sb12, pb12, etc. in terms of output. I went with the SB12 due to its WAF and the fact that I listen to music 95% of the time at moderate volumes. I understand that enclosure volume has a lot to do with output at lower frequencies, and even the pb10 has twice the volume (cubic ft not loudness) of the SB12. I don't really consider the SB12 low power at 425 watts, but maybe others do. Thanks robbroy for putting it in proper perspective, especially movies vs. music. BTW, based on my REQW runs, the SB12 starts to roll off at about 23 hz in my room. Not too bad for a little guy.

Ya, I guess power, low or otherwise is relative. Some small subs of similiar dimensions can sport 1200-1600 watts (or more). Of course, they can often cost several multiples of the SB-12.

If you are on the music side of the street, then you got the right sub. The SB-12 plus, as are most subs, are capable of producing frequencies approaching 20Hz (when not limited). Even good headphones can do that. The difference is at what SPL it can be produced at. Turn up the volume and you will see the SB-12 roll off well above 23 Hz.
So, for low/moderate volume levels of music listening which seldom has much material below 30-35 Hz the SB-12 plus is definitely the right choice. However, pop in an action packed DVD and crank up the volume and you will quickly notice the limitations of the SB-12. This is a classic example why choosing the right sub is critical for your habits. There is no perfect sub especially when size and price are factored into the equation.

BTW, here is a link to an excellent review of the SB with some technical analisys as well.
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/SVSSB12Plusp1.php

Graphical analysis:
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/SVSSB12Plusp3.php

Thanks for the advise on removing the top grill. I would up using a narrow chisel type tool to pry it up. It took some doing though.

I do have one very important question, though.

Does anyone know the crossover slope of my SVS 20-39PC+? Is it 12db/octave or 24db/octive?

I have looked through the SVS web site and my owner's manual but there is no mention of the crossover slope used.

I have emailed svs tech support yesterday and today but they do not seem to respond as promptly as Hsu tech support.

Shelly

Thanks Joe and Robb -- since I am looking for a sub primarily for movies for my Theater room I will stick with another PB10 and find away to fit it in the room.

What did SVS change when the switched from the ISD to the NSD version?

Thanks Joe and Robb -- since I am looking for a sub primarily for movies for my Theater room I will stick with another PB10 and find away to fit it in the room.

What did SVS change when the switched from the ISD to the NSD version?

On the PB10, not a thing. The new 10" NSD driver is functionally identical to the old 10" ISD driver -- just made in-house at SVS. IIRC SVS just kept labeling them PB10-ISD for some time, as there really was no functional difference.

Shelly,

If you emailed yesterday and today, and still don't have an answer, then something's wrong. I'm guessing there was a typo in the email address, or a spam filter grabbed your message. Try the sales email, and if that doesn't work, give them a call.

-Robb

...edit...
Does anyone know the crossover slope of my SVS 20-39PC+? Is it 12db/octave or 24db/octive? ...edit...

If you scroll down to the first graph here:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/996-svs-pb12-plus-2-20-hz-plus-12-3-a.html
the red line on a PB12-Plus/2 falls 21 dB from 50Hz to 100Hz, so my guess is nominal 24dB@octave.

I powered up my brand new system last night and got nothing out of my SVS-PB10. I have an Onkyo 804 AV receiver connected to an Oppo DVD player and a Mitsubishi projector. I also have ascend speakers for my 5 surrounds. Running the auto setup on the reciever I hear pink noise from all the speakers accept the sub. When the receiver gets to the sub no sound at all. I tried the switch on the back of the sub in both the auto and on position. The led did change green when in the auto position and the receiver was running through the auto setup. That tells me it is at least getting something from the receiver. I also tried 2 different cables with the same results. I tried playing a movie and no output from the sub still.

Any thoughts?

I'm probably going to bring the sub over to a friends house to install in his (known working) system tonight.

Go into manual set-up on your Onkyo -- make sure the Onkyo thinks you have a sub and that you can change the distance settings on it), all your speakers are set to small, x-o to 80Hz, bass (or LFE) is being sent to the sub only. There's more but try that first.

Actually thanks to D-Bucket, all your answers and links are in one post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9412856#post9412856

If you scroll down to the first graph here:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/996-svs-pb12-plus-2-20-hz-plus-12-3-a.html
the red line on a PB12-Plus/2 falls 21 dB from 50Hz to 100Hz, so my guess is nominal 24dB@octave.

I just did get a reply from SVS tech support. They say my SVS 20-39PC+ is using a 12db.octave slope.

Shelly

For HT, especially at high volumes, the PB12-Ultra/2 runs away (or, more accurately, jogs backwards chanting na na na na nah). For purposes of comparison, you'd have to put the SB12-Plus up against similar sized and priced sealed subs.
-Robb

Robb,

I have read your post and you seem to know your subs. Question for ya, I own
a PB12-Ultra/2, been thinking of another one. Of course we all see theres a new
driver on the way ect. Based on the fact that the Ultra/2 13 will be higher cost,
would you get another Ultra/2 now? I bet I could get a deal out of SVS. If I were
to buy the new Ultra 13, I would probably sell the old Ultra. (or at least think
about it). My concern is mixing two different subs.

Thanks

I got it working. I had to turn up the gain on the back of the sub to about the 11 o'clock position. Now my question is should I leave the gain setting there or should I go into the receiver's speaker config settings and increase the speaker level on the sub to something more than 0db? Or does that not do what I think it does?

Steve

The gain on the back of the sub will do nothing as far as turning the sub
on and off. Maybe the sub was on and you just weren't hearing it. Most
people end up in that 11-12 o'clock range.

Robb,

I have read your post and you seem to know your subs. Question for ya, I own
a PB12-Ultra/2, been thinking of another one. Of course we all see theres a new
driver on the way ect. Based on the fact that the Ultra/2 13 will be higher cost,
would you get another Ultra/2 now? I bet I could get a deal out of SVS. If I were
to buy the new Ultra 13, I would probably sell the old Ultra. (or at least think
about it). My concern is mixing two different subs.

Thanks

swgiust,

I don't really have an answer for you. The reason I don't is that I am in the exact same situation you are. I will probably wind up selling my Ultra/2 and getting a single Ultra-13, then maybe a second. OR I will get the Ultra-13, compare them, then sell the Ultra/2.

I think your best *value* is to get a second Ultra/2 now with your repeat customer discount. I would consider that option, except for two things: 1) I'd want the new one to match the old, and mine has the original "Mercury Red" box from before SAC started doing some of their cabinets, and 2) I... Must... Have... The... Ultra-13 driver...

-Robb

I got it working. I had to turn up the gain on the back of the sub to about the 11 o'clock position. Now my question is should I leave the gain setting there or should I go into the receiver's speaker config settings and increase the speaker level on the sub to something more than 0db? Or does that not do what I think it does?

Steve

Steve,

Here are some things that might help:

http://www.robbroy.net/HT/SubwooferErrors.cfm

-Robb

I can't seem to find the area to download manuals at the svs site, anyone have the address for the Cs-ultra manual in pdf?


thanks,

I can't seem to find the area to download manuals at the svs site, anyone have the address for the Cs-ultra manual in pdf?


thanks,There isn't a CS Ultra manual on line but here (http://www.svsound.com/manuals/csplussoftcopy2k.pdf) is the CS Plus manual. As a passive sub, there isn't a lot to say.

I am going to the dark side for a little while, and was wondering what would be a good price for my SVS PB-12 Plus/2 in Piano Black, it has the 12.2 drivers in it.

Thanks for your input.

Michael

I am going to the dark side for a little while, and was wondering what would be a good price for my SVS PB-12 Plus/2 in Piano Black, it has the 12.2 drivers in it.

Thanks for your input.
SVS recently had one in B-stock for $1149, with "cloudy" finish and 12.3 driver. You might use that as a starting point.

I just have to post to thank everyone here for steering me to SVS and these subs. I am very picky and hate to buy ANYTHING sight unseen (or esp. heard) but I took the risk on this based on the overwhelmingly positive reviews.

I am absolutely, completely and entirely thrilled with my purchase. I previously had a a Paradigm PS1000, a decent first subwoofer that generated plenty of volume and rattled my room something fierce. I was actually afraid the SVS would rattle it more but the bass is so clean that even at significantly higher sound pressure levels, there are NO RATTLES in the room at all. I can't believe it and the power of the bass is incredible.

It is by far my favorite part of my home theater now. I am not a frequent poster but I appreciate all the help I have gotten from reading this forum and I wanted to share my experience. If there is someone on the fence about this sub, don't hesitate. I am not in any way affiliated with any companies in the audio industry, just a thrilled consumer.

That is not to say there aren't other good subs out there. Frankly though, I cannot even fathom bass better than this.

Cheers,
John

I just have to post to thank everyone here for steering me to SVS and these subs. I am very picky and hate to buy ANYTHING sight unseen (or esp. heard) but I took the risk on this based on the overwhelmingly positive reviews.

I am absolutely, completely and entirely thrilled with my purchase. I previously had a a Paradigm PS1000, a decent first subwoofer that generated plenty of volume and rattled my room something fierce. I was actually afraid the SVS would rattle it more but the bass is so clean that even at significantly higher sound pressure levels, there are NO RATTLES in the room at all. I can't believe it and the power of the bass is incredible.

It is by far my favorite part of my home theater now. I am not a frequent poster but I appreciate all the help I have gotten from reading this forum and I wanted to share my experience. If there is someone on the fence about this sub, don't hesitate. I am not in any way affiliated with any companies in the audio industry, just a thrilled consumer.

That is not to say there aren't other good subs out there. Frankly though, I cannot even fathom bass better than this.

Cheers,
John

You aren't the first, and certainly won't be the last my friend. Congrats on the purchase! :-)

You definitely suck!

A few quick questions:

(1) Have any SVS owners experienced that your subs require some burn-in time to sound their best?

(2) Does the Avia DVD have single low frequency test tones to help set the PEQ? As far as I can tell my DVE disc does not. :(

(3) This isn't really a question, but since my long-winded original post got deleted I'm going to try and sum it up: so far in order to get a good bass level for CD and vinyl listening my DVD watching is way too bass-heavy, that's even after setting LFE to -10db for both DTS and DD. I was able to tame SACD bass with the "SW ATT." setting on my reciever but haven't been able to balance movies and music yet.

Any advice or links would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

your picture link doesnt work......it is just a blank white picture

got it. check out all its majesty!

Anybody know where I can get or download test tones?

Lotsa' downloads:

http://www.realmofexcursion.com/

...Have any SVS owners experienced that your subs require some burn-in time to sound their best?...
SVS says they do not.

How many people leave your sub powered when not in use? I was trying to decide if I should leave the power switch off when not using the sub or leave it on but leave the Auot-On switch in auto instead. Any thoughts on this?

I leave my +/2 in the auto on mode. It has worked great for me. When the amp gets a signal, it turns on immediately. After about 15 minutes of no signal, it goes to stand by. Just as it is supposed to do.

I leave my +/2 in the auto on mode. It has worked great for me. When the amp gets a signal, it turns on immediately. After about 15 minutes of no signal, it goes to stand by. Just as it is supposed to do.
Same here. I've had problems with some auto on circuits, but SVS's has worked flawlessly for me.

Same here. I've had problems with some auto on circuits, but SVS's has worked flawlessly for me.

Same here!

What do you think a good SVS PB-12/ultra-2 is worth right now?
With the announcement of the new 13" driver and past customer
discounts, I'm wondering what I could find another one used for.
Ive seen people asking as much as 2k for them, but that was before
the new ultra's were anounced.

What do you think a good SVS PB-12/ultra-2 is worth right now?
With the announcement of the new 13" driver and past customer
discounts, I'm wondering what I could find another one used for.
Ive seen people asking as much as 2k for them, but that was before
the new ultra's were anounced.It's a good question, but I can't see the prices dropping too much until the new Ultra pricing is announced and for the /2s even later.

A few quick questions:

(1) Have any SVS owners experienced that your subs require some burn-in time to sound their best?

(2) Does the Avia DVD have single low frequency test tones to help set the PEQ? As far as I can tell my DVE disc does not. :(

(3) This isn't really a question, but since my long-winded original post got deleted I'm going to try and sum it up: so far in order to get a good bass level for CD and vinyl listening my DVD watching is way too bass-heavy, that's even after setting LFE to -10db for both DTS and DD. I was able to tame SACD bass with the "SW ATT." setting on my reciever but haven't been able to balance movies and music yet.

Any advice or links would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

1. No. Some folks have claimed to hear a difference with break in, but I have not (and I've owned more than a couple SVS subs).

2. To my knowledge, Avia has sweeps, but not sine waves as individual tracks. It looks like someone pointed you in the right direction there.

3. This sounds like you may want your bass a bit hot for CDs and vinyl (as the bass on those tend to be "disappointing" compared to that on DVDs). Some receivers will remember your LFE settings based on input, so if you use separate players, you might be able to utilize that. If not, then you should calibrate for DVDs and manually adjust for CDs and vinyl to taste. That's definitely a question for the receiver end of things (obviously, the sub has no idea what it's being fed -- it's just reproducing what's asked of it).

-Robb

What do you think a good SVS PB-12/ultra-2 is worth right now?
With the announcement of the new 13" driver and past customer
discounts, I'm wondering what I could find another one used for.
Ive seen people asking as much as 2k for them, but that was before
the new ultra's were anounced.


I'll let you know when I offer my oak ultra/2 to the masses ;) $2450(with shipping) 3yrs ago, my guess would be around $1800-1900


Was going to sell it before the new ultras are released but I decided to wait and do some A/B testing.

Lotsa' downloads:

http://www.realmofexcursion.com/


Thanks for the link. I used a lot of them with my ART 351 last night, it helped out a lot.

1. No. Some folks have claimed to hear a difference with break in, but I have not (and I've owned more than a couple SVS subs).

2. To my knowledge, Avia has sweeps, but not sine waves as individual tracks. It looks like someone pointed you in the right direction there.

3. This sounds like you may want your bass a bit hot for CDs and vinyl (as the bass on those tend to be "disappointing" compared to that on DVDs). Some receivers will remember your LFE settings based on input, so if you use separate players, you might be able to utilize that. If not, then you should calibrate for DVDs and manually adjust for CDs and vinyl to taste. That's definitely a question for the receiver end of things (obviously, the sub has no idea what it's being fed -- it's just reproducing what's asked of it).

-Robb
Re: the break-in thing, I just wanted to make sure that the performance I get now is the best it's going to be, in terms of evaluating whether I want to keep it or not. Though I'm pretty sure I'll keep it.

(2) Avia does NOT have individual sine wave tracks? How do most people calibrate their subs?

(3) That may be. Also I wonder if I kind of burned out my ears during my critical listening. My reciever does not have separate LFE settings per input, so I may have to look into that when I upgrade (any suggestions?). This may also be a good excuse to buy a new turntable with better bass response. I'm REALLY looking for excuses because I like my TT just fine but I'd love to get a Clearaudio Emotion or something along those lines.

Thanks.

Last night I listened to some of Tortoise's "TNT" on CD and the bass was definitely too exaggerated, so I'm going to have to tone down the gain after all. It sounded just right on a Wes Montgomery LP I was listening to so it may just be that my classic jazz recordings sound lean on the bass compared to DVDs and rock (not surprising, I suppose).

How many people leave your sub powered when not in use? I was trying to decide if I should leave the power switch off when not using the sub or leave it on but leave the Auot-On switch in auto instead. Any thoughts on this?


Mine stays on auto at all times. Seems to work very well.

My svs 20-39pc+ is crossed over at 50hz as I'm also using the Hsu mbm-12 for 50-80 hz.

I ran the 16-50hz tones included with the Hsu mbm-12 trying to find the correct volume level for the svs. All other speakers were off as was the Hsu mbm-12.

I'm using the Tohiba XA1 as my cd source through the analog outputs. My receiver is set to analog input (with sub level at +10 to compensate for the -10 sub output of the XA1 through its analog outs) with the receiver gain at -22 which is the gain at which all my other speakers are calibrated to 75db.

I usually listen to music at a lower level, around -25-30 and watch movies at louder levels -20 to -15 on the receiver

My results are as follows:

16 hz------80 db
20 hz------80 db
25 hz------69.5 db
31.5 hz----72.5 db
40 hz------80.5 db
50 hz------71 db

Because the spl meter readings jump around a bit, I tried to average the db reading as best I could.

Is my SVS sub set at the proper volume level? The gain control is at the 3rd marking up from Minimum (around 11 oclock). I suspect that the room accounts for the 25 and 31.5 lower readings.

I;m not sure that I'm getting the impact I feel I should. The Hsu mbm-12 behind my seat has great impact in the 50-80 range.

I sit about 13' from the front wall. My room is 14 1/2 wide x 27 long x 9 1/2 high with a 6' square opening on the left side for a spiral staircase. I'm sure that a lot of bass energy goes upstairs.

Any thoughts?

Shelly

Shelly,

Are you able to use Avia or some other means to calibrate the level for your SVS? I have no idea if those test tones are accurate, or even meant to be used for level calibration. Under the assumption those tones are accurate, your FR is all over the map. I would try working with placement, and if that's not an option or doesn't help, you might want to look at an EQ.

-Robb

I had peviously used Avia bu there is no one sub teswt tone. they are all linked with the other 5 speakers and I would up using the tone linked with the center channel as it seemed to be sttrongest. But it had me crank the svs volume past the half way mark to the 1 o clock position. And that was for the full spectrum sub tone.

I am only using the 16-50 range.

I know that I have room nulls as I have for years always had lowe levels at 35 and 31.5. But the lowest frezuencies are alwys very strong.

If I lower the svs volume, it can easily bring the 80db readings to 75db but it would also lower the nulls accordingly. That;s why I have the volume boosted a bit.

I am not concerned with the low 50hz reading as the hsu mbm-12 covers that spot with it 50-80 output.

Any other feedback? What ezualizer? I always understood that equalizers were ok to lower boosts but not so good to raise the nulls.

Shelly

Shelly,

Avia uses redirected bass from your processor. It should work just fine for calibrating your sub. 1:00 is high, but not unheard of.

If those dips in the FR are true nulls, then no, you can't compensate for them with an EQ. If they're not true nulls, you might be able to boost them (a lot of people say to never boost any kind of dip, but I've boosted minor dips with no problems). In any case, a PEQ can tame the peaks so your overall FR is better. A lot of people like the BFD. I use Rane EQs, and I know SVS is coming out with a bass correction unit that is superior to PEQs (built with Audyssey technology) later this year. The SVS/Audyssey box will do two channels, so you can correct response for both your SVS and your Hsu.

-Robb

CapnJazz- Just curious, did you have a sub prior to the SB12+? What was it? I noticed less bass than I was used to from my old Infinity RS sub, but I realized that what I was hearing was more accurate bass, not the bloated bass from my old sub. Perhaps you are noticing the same thing. Enjoy digging through those old records and finding those nuggets of sound you never heard before!

Hey did you see SVS got "kicked off" Audioholics? And SVS posts are banned from non-SVS threads? Not sure how I feel about all that....

I just bought a new SVS 2039 Plus Sub Woofer and had a so called professional to come to my house and set it up :( My question is..........I put a foam plug in one of the three ports to lower the Hz level......I have set the "subsonic filter setting" to the proper setting on the subwoofer which is 16 HZ ;) Is there an adjustment with my new Denon 2807 that I must match with the 16HZ setting on the subwoofer? I am a newbie here and am trying to learn :D Thanks for your help :D

Shelly,

Avia uses redirected bass from your processor. It should work just fine for calibrating your sub. 1:00 is high, but not unheard of.

If those dips in the FR are true nulls, then no, you can't compensate for them with an EQ. If they're not true nulls, you might be able to boost them (a lot of people say to never boost any kind of dip, but I've boosted minor dips with no problems). In any case, a PEQ can tame the peaks so your overall FR is better. A lot of people like the BFD. I use Rane EQs, and I know SVS is coming out with a bass correction unit that is superior to PEQs (built with Audyssey technology) later this year. The SVS/Audyssey box will do two channels, so you can correct response for both your SVS and your Hsu.

-Robb

There was a piece of the equation that I had left out. I also have a BagEnd Infrasub 18 with 400watts and an 18" woofer. When I used boh it and the SVS on the front wall, they interacted very poorly and the 25 and 31.5 responses were in the very low 60;s so I just stopped using the BE.

But I remembered reading womewhere that multiple subs do well if placed across the room from each other. My room offers no corners for sub placement but I did replace a telephone stand on the opposite wall with the Bag End. DRAgging the Bag End 27 feet was not the easiest thing todo. I could not lift it, whereas I can lift the SVS easily.

I still used the test tones provided by Hsu and calibrated the volume so I could get as close to 75db from 16-40 with an expected drop off at 50 where the Hsu picks up.

Wow, what a difference. It took only a few minutes to find the appropriate volume setting for the Bag End and I had to reverse its polarity, but now, with both subs runing, my readings are much better. There doesn't appear to be a real room null any more.

16hz------75db
20hz------82db
25hz------77db
31.5------76db
40---------81db
50---------66db (without the Hsu MBM-12)

I don't mind the hot 20hz but it would be nice to filter down the 40hz reading. But I think that things sound so much better.I just listened to some of my favorite cd's and the bass was very tight. In fact there was a veil lifted from the whole frequency range.

I had planned to sell the SVS 20-39PC+ (offered it to a forum member for $400+shipping but never heard back from him) and to sell or use the Bag End as an end table, and pick up a new Hsu VTF3-MkIII Turbo but for now, I think I wil be enjoying by two true subs and mid bass module for a while.

Opposite wall placement may be the answer to multible subs.

Shelly

No. Set the crossover on the Denon to 80 to start. Make sure the sub output is active. Set speakers to small. The AVR will send everything below 80Hz from all channels and the LFE to the sub. Switch the subs crossover to disabled. Tuning to 16 Hz will suppress the mid bass a little, but will allow the sub to dig deeper.

And Talon -- Listen. No one can learn your room better than you! Walk around your room while bass is playing -- stand in different spots and play the same selection -- it's normal for bass to be louder near corners and walls, but does it sound the SAME at your listening position, or are some notes much louder or softer than others? If you sit in a bad place, room acoustics wise, it's very hard to fix.

Then try moving the sub around. Try front and rear(if you can) corners first -- make sure you adjust the phase control in each location for the loudest bass.

You can make this a lot more complicated with meters and graphs, but time spent learning your room's good and bad spots will reward you with good bass! :)

I'm not familiar with the Denon, so please forgive me if I'm wrong. On my HK, the sub size setting correlates to a sub-sonic filter setting. So, make sure you have set the sub size to the correct sub-sonic filter setting, not the actual driver size (12"). The filter settings are listed in the manual, not on the set up menu.

I do have a 20-39 PC Plus, so we do have that in common.

Good luck!

...But I remembered reading womewhere that multiple subs do well if placed across the room from each other...

...Wow, what a difference...

...Opposite wall placement may be the answer to multible subs.
It probably depends upon the room, but I had the same results placing my vintage sealed, passive M&K 15" in the opposite corner from my 16-46 PC-Plus.

Similar to your experience, the second sub filled in a major null in the 60-80 Hz region and another smaller one at around 40Hz. It's a textbook illustration of synergy. :cool:

Anyone have a review on the new nsd 12" woofer,
compared to the ISD woofer ( For the PCI 20-39 ).
Is it worth the upgrade. I play my present unit at -22.
I live in a apt , could I use the this upgrade at my current listening levels ?

Anyone have a review on the new nsd 12" woofer,
compared to the ISD woofer ( For the PCI 20-39 ).
Is it worth the upgrade. I play my present unit at -22.
I live in a apt , could I use the this upgrade at my current listening levels ?

I doubt you would hear much if any difference at that volume level. There is no question the NSD is the better driver overall, but at low volumes the differences will be tough to discern. The only way to know for sure is to try the upgrade. You can always sell the older driver on ebay or the like...

I doubt you would hear much if any difference at that volume level. There is no question the NSD is the better driver overall, but at low volumes the differences will be tough to discern. The only way to know for sure is to try the upgrade. You can always sell the older driver on ebay or the like...

Thank you Jpmst3 I will give it a try.

I'd wait for the new Ultra 2. I think you would regret it. Buyers remorse will set it pretty quick once you read the reviews.

SVS ULTRA Going, Going, Gone

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a reply I got today for SVS on ordering another PB-12 Ultra/2

Sam,

We’re actually about to post a notice that the very few remaining Ulltra/2 subs will soon be sold out.

The New Ultra/2 is coming, but several months off (late 07 is our best guess). Given this I don’t expect to see any price reductions since the replacements will be more expensive and again, unavailable for a while.

If you want one before they are gone, order soon, like in the next day or two.

The Plus/2 in maple will carry the dual driver offerings for some months.

Ron
SVS

Now comes my real dilema, do I buy another Ultra/2 or do I wait for the new
Ultra. In my mind I want to believe that 2 Ultra/2's are going to be absolutley
fantastic and I will never want for anything more. I am very happy with the sound
that I get from my current sub. My main issues are room issues. I think two subs
placed in different positions will greatly improve my response.

PLEASE HELP ME DECIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd wait too.

Keep your Current Ultra and just pair it up with the new Ultra.....

Here is a reply I got today for SVS on ordering another PB-12 Ultra/2

Sam,

We’re actually about to post a notice that the very few remaining Ulltra/2 subs will soon be sold out.

The New Ultra/2 is coming, but several months off (late 07 is our best guess). Given this I don’t expect to see any price reductions since the replacements will be more expensive and again, unavailable for a while.

If you want one before they are gone, order soon, like in the next day or two.

The Plus/2 in maple will carry the dual driver offerings for some months.

Ron
SVS

Now comes my real dilema, do I buy another Ultra/2 or do I wait for the new
Ultra. In my mind I want to believe that 2 Ultra/2's are going to be absolutley
fantastic and I will never want for anything more. I am very happy with the sound
that I get from my current sub. My main issues are room issues. I think two subs
placed in different positions will greatly improve my response.

PLEASE HELP ME DECIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's a no-win scenario.

If you are happy with your current Ultra then get another and don't look back.

However, the new single driver version is predicted to be about equal to the current /2 and have some additional tuning options. The new Ultra/2 should be an animal!
I always tend to want to stick with the latest and greatest, which of course costs money....Sorry to cloud the issue further!

The Ultra/2 is a terrific sub and the best sub in their product line. I'd check pricing on the new one and then make a decision based on your pocketbook.

wait......

Hold off for now. When the Ultra13 is released, buy 2 of them. Then sell your existing Ultra/2. :D Really.

Tim

The new Ultra/2 apparently has a special amp (I'm assuming something other than a run of the mill plate amp).

I guess I'll be different...I say order now and match the sub you already have. I have no clue about your seating position or room size, but two ultras offer a boatload of headroom and impact. not to mention you will have a matched pair...which IMHO is better than having one 'old' ultra and one 'new' ultra...that's just me though...

not to mention there will always be something new on the horizon, so if you constantly play the waiting game you will never enjoy what you have now..you live in the now...buy now...and it enjoy it now...period.

I guess I'll be different...I say order now and match the sub you already have. I have no clue about your seating position or room size, but two ultras offer a boatload of headroom and impact. not to mention you will have a matched pair...which IMHO is better than having one 'old' ultra and one 'new' ultra...that's just me though...

not to mention there will always be something new on the horizon, so if you constantly play the waiting game you will never enjoy what you have now..you live in the now...buy now...and it enjoy it now...period.

Thanks, PL. I am leaning this way. I get a matched pair. I would have two
of the best subs out there. I get to buy it now! Chasing the bigger and better
dream can get you alot of years of not being happy with what you have. I really
do like my ultra. Its is so far behond any sub that any of my friends and neighbors
have heard, it's not even funny.

NOW IF RON OVER AT SVS WOULD JUST GIVE ME A DEAL I CAN'T REFUSE,
WE COULD END THIS DEBATE!!! :D :D :D :D

ps: ron, i do have a friend who i am pushing towards a plus/2...... :D

Thanks, PL. I am leaning this way. I get a matched pair. I would have two
of the best subs out there. I get to buy it now! Chasing the bigger and better
dream can get you alot of years of not being happy with what you have. I really
do like my ultra. Its is so far behond any sub that any of my friends and neighbors
have heard, it's not even funny.

NOW IF RON OVER AT SVS WOULD JUST GIVE ME A DEAL I CAN'T REFUSE,
WE COULD END THIS DEBATE!!! :D :D :D :D

ps: ron, i do have a friend who i am pushing towards a plus/2...... :D

<chants> Do It! Do It! Do It! Do It! Do It! Do It!</chants>

:D

Even with the new Ultras on the way. The current models are nothing to sneeze at and still damn good 12 inchers by any measure. I hope you can get a deal on some kind of closeout deal of sorts.