Anyone ever upgrade the drivers in the Plus/2 to the TV-12 Ultra drivers...?

Cost?

And is there any benefits/drawbacks to doing so, using the 900 watt amp for those drivers, instead of the 1000 watt amp.

Warp

SVS will only sell the TV-12 drivers to existing Ultra owners as replacements if needed, the drivers cannot be purchased separately.

The amps have a dash of EQ built in specific to the drivers used for that sub. Best not to try interchanging them.


Tim

A few more thoughts about my new SB12-plus:

I think I've found a good balance between the gain setting (just under the halfway mark) on the sub vs. AVR settings for different sources. Performance for movies is just phenomenal, I've noticed bumps and thumps that have a frighteningly realistic quality without overpowering my room. There is definitely something to be said for "tight" bass vs. boomy. With music I'm not sure I'm getting the best performance possible still (sometimes the bass seems to lag behind a bit) but that may be a combination of the way my room is set up and/or I'm being nitpicky. For the most part I'm getting great performance. The only downside is that I'm still flying blind with the PEQ, which was a big selling point to me that I don't think I'm getting the most out of.

Cap'n Jazz,

What do you mean by "flying blind" with the EQ on your sub? If you download some test tones (I think someone linked to some earlier in this thread) you can use it to plot your FR, and then you can bring down the largest peak in your room. There's a nice, simple spreadsheet developed by Sonnie Parker out there you can use to help.

-Robb

CapNJazz

You should really check out Room EQ Wizard- http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

With a RS meter and a soundcard, you can plot the response of your sub, and really dial in the PEQ and phase. You can compare different sub locations. You can even step up to a parametric equilizer to smooth out the response even further. It is a great tool. The more you can flatten the response of your sub, the more you will begin to hear.

A few more thoughts about my new SB12-plus:

I think I've found a good balance between the gain setting (just under the halfway mark) on the sub vs. AVR settings for different sources. Performance for movies is just phenomenal, I've noticed bumps and thumps that have a frighteningly realistic quality without overpowering my room. There is definitely something to be said for "tight" bass vs. boomy. With music I'm not sure I'm getting the best performance possible still (sometimes the bass seems to lag behind a bit) but that may be a combination of the way my room is set up and/or I'm being nitpicky. For the most part I'm getting great performance. The only downside is that I'm still flying blind with the PEQ, which was a big selling point to me that I don't think I'm getting the most out of.

I'm curious about the sense of the bass lagging behind. I wonder if that could be related to where you have the sub located. Is it near your mains? Have you tried to best adjust the phase setting?

Cap'n Jazz,

What do you mean by "flying blind" with the EQ on your sub? If you download some test tones (I think someone linked to some earlier in this thread) you can use it to plot your FR, and then you can bring down the largest peak in your room. There's a nice, simple spreadsheet developed by Sonnie Parker out there you can use to help.

-Robb
Yep- I'm looking forward to being able to plot a FR graph (geek alert!) but even when I've got that accomplished there are no markers/notches on the three PEQ dials on the SB12-plus. There's just three dials and you have to sort of guess where you're setting them at.

CapNJazz

You should really check out Room EQ Wizard- http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

With a RS meter and a soundcard, you can plot the response of your sub, and really dial in the PEQ and phase. You can compare different sub locations. You can even step up to a parametric equilizer to smooth out the response even further. It is a great tool. The more you can flatten the response of your sub, the more you will begin to hear.
Thanks for the tip. I don't think I could take advantage of this without getting a new laptop, but I'll keep it in mind.

I'm curious about the sense of the bass lagging behind. I wonder if that could be related to where you have the sub located. Is it near your mains? Have you tried to best adjust the phase setting?
It's not, it's in the corner to the left of my seating area, which may very well be part of the cause. I assume when I'm listening in "direct" mode on my Denon AVR-2105 I'm not getting any distance delay and that's why I notice more with music. I should compare some stereo to multichannel (with BM applied) and see if I notice a difference.

Would phase adjustment really make a difference on this point, though? I've tried shifting it around (partner was doing it while I sat in the sweet spot) and couldn't hear any significant changes.

It's not, it's in the corner to the left of my seating area, which may very well be part of the cause. I assume when I'm listening in "direct" mode on my Denon AVR-2105 I'm not getting any distance delay and that's why I notice more with music. I should compare some stereo to multichannel (with BM applied) and see if I notice a difference.

Would phase adjustment really make a difference on this point, though? I've tried shifting it around (partner was doing it while I sat in the sweet spot) and couldn't hear any significant changes.

I would think that the greater the distance between the sub and the mains, the more likely there is to be phase problems, even if subtle ones. Slight phase problems might make it harder for the sub and the mains to blend.

I would think that the greater the distance between the sub and the mains, the more likely there is to be phase problems, even if subtle ones. Slight phase problems might make it harder for the sub and the mains to blend.
Interesting. I'll have to try it again and be a little more patient this time (though try explaining that to the woman hunched over the sub, slowly turning the dial...).

CapNJazz

You should really check out Room EQ Wizard- http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

With a RS meter and a soundcard, you can plot the response of your sub, and really dial in the PEQ and phase. You can compare different sub locations. You can even step up to a parametric equilizer to smooth out the response even further. It is a great tool. The more you can flatten the response of your sub, the more you will begin to hear.


Man I really need a lap top....I want to do all of these graphs and waterfall charts and everything.....but I cant.

My computer is way to hard to move and the rooms are sooo far apart...

Maybe I should "rent" a laptop...LOL

I am now an SVS owner!!! I got my 20-39 PC+ B-stock (looks perfect) today, got it home, and hooked it up. Too late to do any sound tests, but was able to confirm that it is working fine.

Erik at SVS has been great helping me with my purchase. I have an overseas military address, so needed it shipped through USPS and it was no problem with SVS. Got to me in 6 days and the box looked like it hadn’t even been shipped yet. I searched for scuffs on the box, but could only find one tiny wrinkle on one corner. Man, what a relief!!! USPS and the military did a great job delivering it to me….as well as SVS of course.

I played a little of Superman Returns at low levels to check if it’s operating. Got enough bass to make my wife hate it already, but I never expected her to like it anyway. It is easier to hide in a corner behind my audio rack than the HSU STF-2 I have. It is a super cool looking sub too! I can’t wait to let it sound out and shake the house! I’m just really excited!!!

Now I’m just waiting on my x-ls/x-cs setup to go along with it. The 20-39+ is not really well matched with my JBL NSP-1 setup, but that will change in a few weeks. I’ll have a Yamaha 5960 coming soon too.

Just wanted to thank you guys for all the reading I’ve done to help me decide on this sub. And once again a big THANKS to SVS!!!!

Chuck

I am now an SVS owner!!! I got my 20-39 PC+ B-stock (looks perfect) today, got it home, and hooked it up. Too late to do any sound tests, but was able to confirm that it is working fine.

Erik at SVS has been great helping me with my purchase. I have an overseas military address, so needed it shipped through USPS and it was no problem with SVS. Got to me in 6 days and the box looked like it hadn’t even been shipped yet. I searched for scuffs on the box, but could only find one tiny wrinkle on one corner. Man, what a relief!!! USPS and the military did a great job delivering it to me….as well as SVS of course.

I played a little of Superman Returns at low levels to check if it’s operating. Got enough bass to make my wife hate it already, but I never expected her to like it anyway. It is easier to hide in a corner behind my audio rack than the HSU STF-2 I have. It is a super cool looking sub too! I can’t wait to let it sound out and shake the house! I’m just really excited!!!

Now I’m just waiting on my x-ls/x-cs setup to go along with it. The 20-39+ is not really well matched with my JBL NSP-1 setup, but that will change in a few weeks. I’ll have a Yamaha 5960 coming soon too.

Just wanted to thank you guys for all the reading I’ve done to help me decide on this sub. And once again a big THANKS to SVS!!!!

Chuck


Congrats on your purchase!

Play "Go-Zilla" loud and send the locals running!

Congrats on your purchase!

Play "Go-Zilla" loud and send the locals running!


that was funny....

OH MY GODDDDD IT'S GODZILLAAAAAA



note....please never never nevery refer to the USA version as Godzilla....that was not Godzilla, that was just some weird looking lizard.

LOL! Too funny! I don't have that movie, but as soon as I get a chance I'm going to have Darla tap on the glass of my neighbor's windows. :eek:

....it's late, so I'm off to bed.

LOL! Too funny! I don't have that movie, but as soon as I get a chance I'm going to have Darla tap on the glass of my neighbor's windows. :eek:

....it's late, so I'm off to bed.

good to see you found it funny :)

Anybody else notice that SvS's web site is designed by Fathom. Nothing major, just thought it was a funny coincidence.

Random question here guys, but how can you tell which version driver you have in your SVS enclosure? I have a PB12-Plus/2 that I purchased new back in the fall (maybe September?) and I hear a lot about the 12.1 driver, 12.3, etc and am curious what I have. Is there a way to tell?

I'm pretty sure last September would be the 12.3 drivers, but I'm sure that if you contact SVS with the serial #'s, they can tell you for certain.

Random question here guys, but how can you tell which version driver you have in your SVS enclosure? I have a PB12-Plus/2 that I purchased new back in the fall (maybe September?) and I hear a lot about the 12.1 driver, 12.3, etc and am curious what I have. Is there a way to tell?
The 12.3 drivers started in April 2006. Look at the driver face. If its black, it's a 12.3. If it's silver, it's a 12.2. The SVS label on the amp may confirm.

Random question here guys, but how can you tell which version driver you have in your SVS enclosure? I have a PB12-Plus/2 that I purchased new back in the fall (maybe September?) and I hear a lot about the 12.1 driver, 12.3, etc and am curious what I have. Is there a way to tell?

I knew I read it somewhere. This is from SVS's website about the PB-12 PLUS/2.

"When you start out to better a design as good as the second generation SVS Plus woofer, you have your hands full. The "old" woofer (called the dB12.2 in house and used in all Plus subs till late February 2006)"

So you should have the 12.3 driver.

Does anyone have the oak veneer on their sub? I have some questions if you have.

I have a pair of Oak SB12+'s. Ask away.

Thanks Mike--would you say the finish looks like the picture on the SVS site, color-wise? Is it a "natural oak" finish?

I'd say it looks pretty close to the picture on the site and I would consider it to be "natural oak". I'm sure there can be some slight variation in the shades of natural wood veneers though.

I got the oak SB's to match my oak Onix Rocket RS850's. They are very slighly lighter than the Rockets, but are a pretty good match.

I'd say it looks pretty close to the picture on the site and I would consider it to be "natural oak". I'm sure there can be some slight variation in the shades of natural wood veneers though.

I got the oak SB's to match my oak Onix Rocket RS850's. They are very slighly lighter than the Rockets, but are a pretty good match.

Thanks. I think mine is wrong. My 8 year old daughter walked in the room and said "What is that gold cube?" It's yellow orange. Does yours look like the attached photos?

My SB's look a little lighter than your pictures.

http://www.av123forum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=5064&papass=&sort=1&thecat=3096


http://www.av123forum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=5065&papass=&sort=1&thecat=3096

That's the finish I was after--mine is going back.

That's the finish I was after--mine is going back.
Pure speculation on my part, but maybe you have one of the first cabinets built by SVS' new wood shop since AV123 stopped making them. Perhaps the new maker hasn't got the stain correct, yet. Yours looks more like Honey Oak or Golden Oak than it does the old light oak.

That's the finish I was after--mine is going back.

some one is going to get a b-stock deal :p

I don't see anything wrong with the finish, I like it.

Randy--I hope I wasn't a test case. If so, they failed! Oak doesn't need any stain, or very minimal. The poly they apply on the outside is enough. It's most definitely Golden Yellow. Giant yellow boxes have really poor WAF. I'm just bummed that the website doesn't portray anything like this color in the finish samples. I looked on all 5 PC's here, including over the calibrated LCD TV hooked to the HTPC and there is no hint of yellow in their pictures. They need a new name for this finish and a new picture. The floor below the sub is natural white oak. The Rosewood replacement should be on its way shortly. I was looking forward to putting it through its paces, but oh well. Anyone in Chicago-land looking for an Ultra in "Oak"? I'll deliver it tomorrow!

My SB's look a little lighter than your pictures.

http://www.av123forum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=5064&papass=&sort=1&thecat=3096


http://www.av123forum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=5065&papass=&sort=1&thecat=3096\

If you want this color, you need maple. I have an ultra/2 in maple
and it is this exact color.

Trust me, what I ordered and got was oak. It was very close, but just a tad lighter than my oak Rockets. They match well enough to look like they were made to go together.

Fatawan,

I have to apologize for that mismatch. Indeed we have had a few suppliers for the oak finish and there has been a bit of deviation from the veneer selected a while back when the closeups were prepared. The photos of today's production Plus and Plus/2 subs (and now discontinued Ultras) themselves are quite accurate, but the virtual "swatches" of the veneer are indeed lighter than actual and we'll get that updated.

Typically we offer to send out actual veneer samples when customers indicate there is sensitivity to match some other woods in a customers' home. I'm sorry if we failed to do that in your case! Oak of course can really run the gamut in terms of color/hue (and "golden oak" probably best describes what we're using, but regardless, we missed the mark in your case clearly.

Anyway, I'm told we're already prepping something else in exchange for your sub so we'll be back on track with you ASAP.

Best regards,

Ron Stimpson
SVS

Ron, it looks like you have photos of three different oak veneers:

The SB12-Plus -- light oak, the most attractive IMO.
The single driver PB boxes -- a little darker.
The dual driver PB boxes -- too yellow to match other medium oak products IMO.
Also -- and this is obviously just my opinion -- too yellow for most rooms.
If you could get the yellow tint dialed down it would work as medium oak.

I think you should also bring back some dark woods like walnut, mahogany, or dark oak. The rosewood/rosenut/cherry looks nice by itself, but how many people actually have matching decor? Actually, most cherry stained furniture/cabinets I have seen are very dark. Plus you have light oak and maple that are very close to each other. Just my $.02.

Or -- for the sake of SVS's mental health (and getting product out the door) -- they could, as ACI has done, go down to three finishes -- Satin Black, Piano Black, and, let's say, Rosenut -- and as they have time they can line up veneer either for other stock finishes or for special order construction as Axiom does.

I think you should also bring back some dark woods like walnut, mahogany, or dark oak.

I second this but would like to add wenge color

I think you should also bring back some dark woods like walnut, mahogany, or dark oak. The rosewood/rosenut/cherry looks nice by itself, but how many people actually have matching decor? Actually, most cherry stained furniture/cabinets I have seen are very dark. Plus you have light oak and maple that are very close to each other. Just my $.02.

One problem with dark wood veneers is 'checking' -- cracking due to shrinkage -- seems to either happen more often or be more visible when it does.

The 'Queen Anne' Cherry you are refering to -- Dark Gloss Maroon -- has little to do with a natural wood color, and attempts to imitate a furniture coloration popular in the past. "Bordeaux" is sometimes used. I've seen lot's of checking and other flaws in imported furniture in this color.

You are correct that the Rose(wood/nut) doesn't really match anything -- we all know who started it :) -- but it is a warm option that does seem to be available without significant problems.

Although I like the light oak myself -- and it blends into most rooms better than maple due to its lower reflectance and warm tone -- I have to admit that much of the 'oak' out there is the medium oak.

I'd rather source drivers overseas than veneers any day :) and I'd rather SVS flush out their product line first and develop a veneer menu second...

Just wanted to know if anyone has been to the Ohio Factory? Are they open on Saturdays to the public for sales. And where are they located in Ohio?

Just wanted to know if anyone has been to the Ohio Factory? Are they open on Saturdays to the public for sales. And where are they located in Ohio?


From what I know, are open Monday through Friday 8am-2pm. They are in Giarard Ohio. I know this becaue I just set up an appointment for my demo and my new sub purchase.

I had a really nice thread about it but it was taken down becaue the Admins do not allow you to post ANYTHING like that, especially if it involves SVS. That thread I made would have been VERY helpful for you....

Are you serious?

They really took down your thread?

From what I know, are open Monday through Friday 8am-2pm. They are in Giarard Ohio. I know this becaue I just set up an appointment for my demo and my new sub purchase.

I had a really nice thread about it but it was taken down becaue the Admins do not allow you to post ANYTHING like that, especially if it involves SVS. That thread I made would have been VERY helpful for you....

They would'nt delete a SVS thread, NO WAY. :p ;)

Should keep a running total of how many they delete compared to others :D

Just ordered a new SVS PB12-NSD/2 (shipping today)...Erik was quite helpful, even talked me out of getting the plus version. Oh well, save some money to buy the new blu-rays coming out. Thanks all for the great information.

Just ordered a new SVS PB12-NSD/2 (shipping today)...Erik was quite helpful, even talked me out of getting the plus version. Oh well, save some money to buy the new blu-rays coming out. Thanks all for the great information.

The Plus/2 is only for the most insane people! ;)

You mean like most of the folks who hang around this forum?

:D Cool, I did something right.

The Plus/2 is only for the most insane people! ;)

no, that would be the people with multiple ultras - my (one) +/2 will easily rattle the pool cues on the rack in the opposite corner of a 25x25 HT/pool room and/or wake the kids two floors up...

Yep they took down my thread, and said that I have no right to offer my opinion and review because I am not an "offical" reviewer.

I countered with the fact that THEY DO NOT KNOW ME PERSONALLY so how the hell would they know my qualifications. Do they ask for a RESUME, REFERENCES, a PORFOLIO??

I think its highly hypocritical of them to take down my thread, or any other SVS thread that talks about the purchase, the process, and the review of the user to follow.

I have seen at least 4 HSU threads just like mine that remain up.....

There is clearly something against SVS here and I'm not sure why. My thread had NOTHING to do with saying they are the best or anything.........it was ALL MY PERSONAL OPINION about the SUBWOOFER....not about SVS.


I DO NOT CARE WHAT SUB PEOPLE BUY. I DO NOT GET ANYTHING IF YOU BUY AN SVS SUB.............I just try to offer my opinion on the SUBWOOFERS that I have owned. I have that right and its absurd to tell me that I do not have that qualification. My my review helps someone make up their mind, great, if not I DONT CARE.

I'm of the mindset...."IF you dont like it, don't read it ---- If you don't like what you are seeing, DONT WATCH IT-----IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU ARE HEARING----TURN IT OFF OR DON'T LISTEN.

That solves everyones problems and leaves it up to the PEOPLE to make the choice for them.....not some MODERATOR or the GOVERNMENT ---FCC (HOWARD STERN)

I've seen far worse marketing elsewhere here..and it's still up. No clue about the SVS issue.

Yeah, this site has a stick up its ass about SVS and has had one as long as I've been here...I've seen tons of SVS threads just disappear while countless HSU, Velodyne, etc. threads remain...and they are nearly identical to those threads that disappeared because they contained the dreaded three letters. To be quite honest, I'm still very surprised that this thread is here...I started a SVS owner's thread sometime back only to watch it magically disappear within a week. Glad to see some things never change....

It seems as though there are such a large number of enthusiastic SVS fans here on this site. This enthusiasm tends to dominate many of the threads and sometimes upsets those who are less enthused about SVS products.

It seems as though there are such a large number of enthusiastic SVS fans here on this site. This enthusiasm tends to dominate many of the threads and sometimes upsets those who are less enthused about SVS products.

Well then by all means lets punish the SVS people. :rolleyes:

My assumption was that SVS threads would not be allowed here because AVSforum and Audioholics are affiliated, and SVS is 'officially' 'banned' on Audioholics.

What may eventually happen is what happened with AV123. They started up their own fine forum for all their supporters on their own site. I'm hoping SVS eventually goes in that direction. It was probably the best move AV123 ever made. The fans get to freely express themselves and freely interact with the owners and designers without fear of being shut down for promoting.

What may eventually happen is what happened with AV123. They started up their own fine forum for all their supporters on their own site. I'm hoping SVS eventually goes in that direction. It was probably the best move AV123 ever made. The fans get to freely express themselves and freely interact with the owners and designers without fear of being shut down for promoting.

My understanding was that SVS DID have a forum, but had to remove it due to problems.

Fatawan,

I have to apologize for that mismatch. Indeed we have had a few suppliers for the oak finish and there has been a bit of deviation from the veneer selected a while back when the closeups were prepared. The photos of today's production Plus and Plus/2 subs (and now discontinued Ultras) themselves are quite accurate, but the virtual "swatches" of the veneer are indeed lighter than actual and we'll get that updated.

Typically we offer to send out actual veneer samples when customers indicate there is sensitivity to match some other woods in a customers' home. I'm sorry if we failed to do that in your case! Oak of course can really run the gamut in terms of color/hue (and "golden oak" probably best describes what we're using, but regardless, we missed the mark in your case clearly.

Anyway, I'm told we're already prepping something else in exchange for your sub so we'll be back on track with you ASAP.

Best regards,

Ron Stimpson
SVS

Ron:

I was offered veneer samples after I inquired about whether you could do one in quartersawn oak. I passed, as I was not thinking color at the time, more thinking of the grain. I assumed natural color oak was just that. I never gave a thought to a color issue. My bad.

Erik has been very helpful in setting me up with a rosewood replacement. It's on its way as I type. SVS customer service gets an A+, and a satisfied customer. That's what it's all about! I was SO itchin' to plug the other one in and give it a whirl, but I didn't. I can't wait to try the new one with my new Onix REF 1's.

Thanks for all the help.

Well I like being able to talk about ALL brands here.....

This problem would be mute if they would just stop taking down threads.

And if people don't like reading something that says "SVS" then JUST DO NOT READ IT! I hate overcontroling things....let the READER use their own judgement....don't just judge things for us!

Real world example--- new cars that DING forever if you do not put on your seatbelt. That constant DING should be eliminated.....there is no need to annoy people who choose NOT to wear their seatbelts.....and do you honestly think that someone who does wear their seatbelt needs a constant ding to remind them??? Do they even NEED reminded. The "old school" 30second ding was fine with everyone......now a lot of cars just ding forever and its annoying....This is just another example of overcontrol in society! Let PEOPLE make choices...that is why we have minds!

Yeah, this site has a stick up its ass about SVS and has had one as long as I've been here...I've seen tons of SVS threads just disappear while countless HSU, Velodyne, etc. threads remain...and they are nearly identical to those threads that disappeared because they contained the dreaded three letters. To be quite honest, I'm still very surprised that this thread is here...I started a SVS owner's thread sometime back only to watch it magically disappear within a week. Glad to see some things never change....

I was refrring to to other subforums,etc. NOT subs..

And if people don't like reading something that says "SVS" then JUST DO NOT READ IT! I hate overcontroling things....let the READER use their own judgement....don't just judge things for us!


The narrarative seems to be that SVS owners are so mean and scary that it frightens the other posters, so that brand and it's owners needs to be singled out for the common good. Within this scenario, merely giving people the choice of what to read is not good enough, as they are unable to escape the ever-present SVS bullies.

bullies.....

what are we 2 years old? LOL

plus this is an INTERNET FORUM.....LOL

. . . plus this is an INTERNET FORUM.....LOL . . .

Actually, Bgilly, AVSForum is a privately owned forum, sponsored by the AVS Forum Alliance members (at the top).

I'll try to present a forum point of view:

SVS started here in the forums. As a startup, they posted and built their business.
Now they are a successful online business -- still getting business from forum posts.

Should they contribute to keep the servers running? (tr: "buy advertising")

I'll back up a step.

There are two ways to fund a forum like this. One way is user fees -- we all have to pay to use the forum. The other is through advertising -- companies pay to advertise their products.

We're all more used to the advertising model. No one has to pay to browse, to ask questions -- but when a sale is made, a portion of the proceeds goes to support the advertising expenses.

If you can come up with a better way to do this we'd all love to know it. :)

So here's the problem: SVS is a successful internet direct company, born in the forums.
If companies like that don't plow back to support the forums, who should?

As an SVS customer, I know that I and other SVS customers would be the ones paying more per unit sold to support the forums -- but still, that seems like a fair way to do it.

What do you think? :)

Actually, Bgilly, AVSForum is a privately owned forum, sponsored by the AVS Forum Alliance members (at the top).

I'll try to present a forum point of view:

SVS started here in the forums. As a startup, they posted and built their business.
Now they are a successful online business -- still getting business from forum posts.

Should they contribute to keep the servers running? (tr: "buy advertising")

I'll back up a step.

There are two ways to fund a forum like this. One way is user fees -- we all have to pay to use the forum. The other is through advertising -- companies pay to advertise their products.

We're all more used to the advertising model. No one has to pay to browse, to ask questions -- but when a sale is made, a portion of the proceeds goes to support the advertising expenses.

If you can come up with a better way to do this we'd all love to know it. :)

So here's the problem: SVS is a successful internet direct company, born in the forums.
If companies like that don't plow back to support the forums, who should?

As an SVS customer, I know that I and other SVS customers would be the ones paying more per unit sold to support the forums -- but still, that seems like a fair way to do it.

What do you think? :)

You mean like how SVS was buying advertising on Audioholics and they were told (according to AH) that their business was no longer welcome? I don't believe SVS has shown an unwillingess to buy advertising...

That sounds like entitlement to me....an internet direct brand was able to make a name for themselves and has become successful. And now, the heads of a forum feel entitled to reap the benefits along with them? sorry, but I don't agree. They didn't create the business plan, they didn't bust their ass designing the subs, they didn't secure the manufacturing facilities, they are simply a forum where audio enthusiasts come to learn about products. And if SVS doesn't throw a bone back to AVS, I wouldn't fault them at all...it's their business and I would do the same. Also, if this is the reason AVS has a stick up its ass about the dreaded three letters, that only shows how bad it truly can be around here.

My POINT is if you are going to DISALLOW threads for one...you should disallow them for ALL.

Make if fair....HSU is the same sort of company as SVS....and those posts remain.

I have no problem with HSU and I DO NOT Want those posts taken away either, rather I just want the meaningful posts to remain.

Yeah, this site has a stick up its ass about SVS and has had one as long as I've been here...I've seen tons of SVS threads just disappear while countless HSU, Velodyne, etc. threads remain...and they are nearly identical to those threads that disappeared because they contained the dreaded three letters. To be quite honest, I'm still very surprised that this thread is here...I started a SVS owner's thread sometime back only to watch it magically disappear within a week. Glad to see some things never change....

Far from having ascertained whether this really happens, such thread management anywhere is inexcusable. The only exceptions ought to be cases of vulgarity or flaming, and at the most axing of specific posts with overt sales pitches. Eliminating entire threads by sincere posters discussing a brand, disliked or otherwise by anyone, would be disgusting.

Audiophiles have practically been shut out of balanced and responsible sources of audio information. Not that every forum post is worthy -far from it- but the reader knew where they tread in a largely unedited discussion environment. Honest information invariably percolated in this free exchange of ideas. Sadly that cannot be said anymore.

Despite, the scarcity of new articles at The Audio Critic, its cumulative output thus far is undeniably the finest in terms of responsible audio journalism. Just a set of a dozen past issues is worth far more than any audiophile book I know of. And now, thank goodness, the website is free. Long Live Aczel and Nousaine!

Tumara Baap

Hi All,

Does anyone have experience with the SB12-Plus. The reviews I have read all give accolades to SVS for their achievement in the small sub dept, however I rarely see unfavorable reviews on any products.

I hope some of you have one to share your experience.

I listen to 70/30 music/movies in a 1800-2400 cu ft apartment environment. So them small sub is important. I want something to fit under a coffee table not replace it j/k. But you get my point.

I am also looking at the far more expensive Velodyne SPL 1200R and DD-12 and am wondering when the SVS PB-13 Ultra line will be out, and if there will be a small box product in that line.

Either way the reviews and price on the SB12-Plus warrants very serious consideration.



Thanks in advance

DN

The SB12 has excellent sound quality, excellent build quality, does a superb job with music, but does not defy the laws of physics. As far as the extreme bottom end, it's the least strong in the SVS line, but may have the smoothest overall sound.

I have no problem blending mine with Onix Ref3's for music, x-o'd between 60 and 80 Hz.

It gets complicated because if you can afford the DD12, the comparison would be two SB12's and some EQ -- at least an RS meter, a BFD, and REW -- say around $1550 + s/h -- vs what you can get a DD12 for.

Obviously if you local Velo dealer will allow a weekend home trial with their demo unit you could get both in your room at the same time -- return shipping on the SB12-Plus is not that great a risk.

The Ultra13 triported cylinder and triported single driver box will hopefully ship by May, but Ron has said that 2007 is full up for development of a sealed U13...

Thanks GGunnell,

Afford a DD12 $3000 US, Well yea but ouch! My dealer has the floor model for 2300 in cherry. I want black and 2300 is a lot of money to get and abused sub in the wrong color . I live in an apartment so my neighbors are going to complain regardless so I am trying to get the best bang while keeping it small. The question is, for 800 is the sb12+ a good entry sub for 70/30 music/movies

DN

With music, the SB12+ will sound good in comparison with any sub out there. Being that you are in an apartment, it's low bass capability should be more than adequate.

I couldn't believe how SMALL it is when I saw it.....it made the PB-10 look like a freaking monster!!!!

Small it is, and freaking cute.

Does anyone have experience with the SB12-Plus. The reviews I have read all give accolades to SVS for their achievement in the small sub dept, however I rarely see unfavorable reviews on any products.
I spent a few weeks with the SB12 last year right before it was introduced, and was pretty impressed. Here’s a review I recently did on it: SVS SB12-Plus Review (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-subwoofers/3485-svs-sb12-plus-subwoofer-mouse-roars.html)

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Thank you for the link Wayne,

I have just about made up my mind and will likely order one today or tomorrow in Piano Black :)

You mention issues with the PEQ knob tolerances and that, "SVS says they are aware of many of these shortcomings and tells me they have been complaining to their vendor for a couple of years about the “‘less than medical grade accuracy of their knob tolerances,”

Do you know if SVS has made any improvements on this issues? It seems odd that they would accept no response from their vender after a couple of months let alone a couple of years.

It looks like the new Ultra 13's will be employing the same sort of controls when they come out later this year. Would they continue to use the same knobs with new products? I would imagine this is a fairly simple correction.

DN

Thank you for the link Wayne,

Do you know if SVS has made any improvements on this issues? It seems odd that they would accept no response from their vender after a couple of months let alone a couple of years.I have no way of knowing; someone at SVS would be better equiped to answer that one.

However, many things probably come into play. Like, SVS may have contracted for XX number of them and there would be a monetary penalty for a change order. Or, it’s possible (or actually, “likely”) that their vendor orders these potentiometers by the thousands from whoever their supplier is, and they aren’t just going to throw hundreds or thousands of them in the dumpster. Who knows, maybe SVS’ vendor has had trouble getting action from their supplier. Or, if all their other customers are happy with these pots, and SVS wants “something special,” it would be more expensive for them to buy the limited numbers that SVS would specifically need, and of course the cost plus a profit margin would be passed on to SVS.

It’s even possible that a change of potentiometers would require a re-design of the electronics board. We really have no way of knowing what all would be involved, from an economical, practical or logistical standpoint, to accommodate this. But hopefully it will come about eventually without having to raise prices.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

With all due respect to Wayne, this problem noted is a tiny problem indeed. Once one is aware of the non-linearity of this control, you just have to take that into account when using it. If you use test tones and take SPL measurements, it shouldn't be much of a problem at all.

Check Post #11 below my review, for a report from someone who actually tried to use them.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

WOW--that's all I have to say. I got my Rosewood PB12/Ultra today, and I finally got to hook one of these up and listen. WOW. I had been using a smaller Velodyne, and this sub produced sound that the Velodyne had never even thought of producing. I have been missing out. It looks fantastic, and sounds even better. I'll get some pictures up later. I'll provide more comments after I use it awhile.

One worry--I wonder what this bass will do to my HTPC that sits nearby?

RAID might be a good idea :)

What I read, Wayne, was a story from another fellow like yourself who attempted to tweak the sub and hadn't read the "destruction" manual as he put it (LOL). I realize that in your case, the sub was a demo and didn't have a manual with it. It's true that the controls are somewhat finicky and may not be entirely instinctive. But nevertheless, I did read the manual and was able to adjust a pair of the subs to my satisfaction without too much hassle.

Your point is well taken that the controls might be designed in such a way that they are easier to use. I didn't mean to criticize your review. In fact, I generaly agree with most of your findings. I just felt that the shortcomings you pointed out were relatively small potatoes.

OMG, Just unpacked the SVS PB12-NSD/2 and I cannot belive the size. I have yet to hook it up because I can't raise my arms above knee level. :eek:

I will update later, time for some icing... :D

I just ordered the SB12-Plus-Piano for my apartment/music/movie theater. I can't wait to play :).

I'm hoping I know someone with either the SMS-1 or REW/BFD as i have never play with a sub before.

DN

Congrats to both m1fuller68 and dpnaugle and welcome to the club. I too remember the feeling of astonishment when I unpacked my PB12+/2. Please keep us posted on your thoughts and impressions.

I just felt that the shortcomings you pointed out were relatively small potatoes.
Well, ya gotta find something to criticize, otherwise everyone thinks they have you in their pocket. http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/images/smilies/innocent.gif The fact that that’s pretty much all there is to criticize about it bodes pretty well for it, don’cha think? http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/images/smilies/bigsmile.gif

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

You are correct, sir.

Congrats to both m1fuller68 and dpnaugle and welcome to the club. I too remember the feeling of astonishment when I unpacked my PB12+/2. Please keep us posted on your thoughts and impressions.

Congrats on a fine purchase. From a previous Plus/2 owner I can tell you that you will enjoy it. Have fun sub-ing :p

I've updated my list, now hopefully better. Still looking for input.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8971042#post8971042

Fatawan,

Thanks for the props on that, it should serve you well for many years.

DN/Wayne,

If anyone used the PEQ besides you two guys, probably we would have heard a few more complaints ;^) We're always working to improve the components in our subs, but indeed it can take a long time depending on where the platform is, how many thousands of parts might have been run, the nature of the issue etc. We're getting the hash marks back on the controls for one thing (clutter on the silk screen be damned). Despite the somewhat touchy nature of the "pots" on that feature set it seems to work pretty well in normal production units (Wayne's was something like "1 of 4" samples at the time.

Any time someone finds even the slightest thing that's not as they'd hoped or expected we take it very seriously. There are limits to what you can do if you are pricing a small sub at $700 and not, say, $1,400 of course but we tend not to accept things as 'good enough' unless it's simply not possible to improve it further.

Ron
SVS

Well, ya gotta find something to criticize, otherwise everyone thinks they have you in their pocket. http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/images/smilies/innocent.gif The fact that that’s pretty much all there is to criticize about it bodes pretty well for it, don’cha think? http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/images/smilies/bigsmile.gif

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

It was the same thing with the Audioholics review of the SB12 were the only thing they could find to criticize it for was that they could get the driver to make some noise when running sines : )

I've only used the PEQ once, and then I adjusted it by ear, and didn't do any measurements afterwards. I think the PEQ is ok, but if you are looking for a ruler flat response you are better of with a Behringer, SMS-1 or SVS' new EQ.

On the subject of the new EQ from SVS, if you Ed are reading this. Could you please explain how the filters used in your unit is different from those in the Behringers and SMS-1?

You've always had a talent for taking complex subjects and making them seem so simple that even I can understand, so I'm pinning all my hopes on you Ed! ; )

Any time someone finds even the slightest thing that's not as they'd hoped or expected we take it very seriously.
One reason (of many) why you guys are at the top of your game. http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/images/smilies/t.gif

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

I am having trouble deciding on a sub I want to wait on the Ultra/2 if it is all that I expect. Will it have a forward firing driver and grill like the pb ultra?
Bradley

I have coupled my new Onix REF 1's with the PB12-Ultra that I picked up Monday. I should not have waited so many years to upgrade. I have spent hours listening to movies yesterday, and music today. Music, real solid enjoyable music. I hadn't heard it this way in forever. I think I had become oblivious to the sound, not really listening. Today I was immersed in the music. The SVS sub is fast, keeping up with the REF 1's no matter what was thrown at it. They did not sound like separates. Bass drums were tight and deep, like a real concert. This is much different than what I had been hearing for so long with my old Velodyne. I pulled out the "Pictures at an Exhibition" CD, which has very deep bass from a pipe organ. The deepest notes were played with perfection, clear, and distinct. The Velodyne was more boomy. I'm really enjoying music again!

I just bought my 2nd SVS branded sub. This time it is the PB12-Plus. I currently own a PB12-ISD that I've now had for about a year. I have to say I'm not all that impressed at least compared to the PB12. I am putting out the same DB's at my normal listening volume which is about -10db. During my stress testing (War of the Worlds/The Return of the King) I've also driven the new sub too hard cause it's "popped" on my twice. (my sub's gain is at approximatly 9 o clock on the dial) I've driven my PB12 at higher volume's (-5/0) and have never had it go out on me. I was contemplating getting a new sub for two months now and so far I've been disappointed with both (also purchased a HSU mbm-12) I really don't know if I got my sub hooked up wrong or what. Oh also, I am running the new sub in 16hz tune with one port blocked. I DO have the sub correctly set at the 16hz tune. My crossover is disabled on the sub and is at 100hz (I've tried 80hz, but 100hz was much better) So what do you guys think? Should I be noticing a huge difference with my new sub or no? Any help would really be appreciated.

If you prefer the 100hz crossover setting as opposed to an 80hz setting, you must like when your sub plays higher frequency bass (which I don't as directionality becomes an issue). That being said if I were you I'd run the sub with no ports blocked. That way you'll lose a little down low, but will gain several db up higher.

I just bought my 2nd SVS branded sub. This time it is the PB12-Plus. I currently own a PB12-ISD that I've now had for about a year. I have to say I'm not all that impressed at least compared to the PB12. I am putting out the same DB's at my normal listening volume which is about -10db. During my stress testing (War of the Worlds/The Return of the King) I've also driven the new sub too hard cause it's "popped" on my twice. (my sub's gain is at approximatly 9 o clock on the dial) I've driven my PB12 at higher volume's (-5/0) and have never had it go out on me. I was contemplating getting a new sub for two months now and so far I've been disappointed with both (also purchased a HSU mbm-12) I really don't know if I got my sub hooked up wrong or what. Oh also, I am running the new sub in 16hz tune with one port blocked. I DO have the sub correctly set at the 16hz tune. My crossover is disabled on the sub and is at 100hz (I've tried 80hz, but 100hz was much better) So what do you guys think? Should I be noticing a huge difference with my new sub or no? Any help would really be appreciated.Sounds like you'd better direct this to tech support...room dependent you should notice an improvement, but we're all different...I thought SVS subs beat out the older Hsu's by a wide margin ;), and looky now.

I just bought my 2nd SVS branded sub. This time it is the PB12-Plus. I currently own a PB12-ISD that I've now had for about a year. I have to say I'm not all that impressed at least compared to the PB12. I am putting out the same DB's at my normal listening volume which is about -10db. During my stress testing (War of the Worlds/The Return of the King) I've also driven the new sub too hard cause it's "popped" on my twice. (my sub's gain is at approximatly 9 o clock on the dial) I've driven my PB12 at higher volume's (-5/0) and have never had it go out on me. I was contemplating getting a new sub for two months now and so far I've been disappointed with both (also purchased a HSU mbm-12) I really don't know if I got my sub hooked up wrong or what. Oh also, I am running the new sub in 16hz tune with one port blocked. I DO have the sub correctly set at the 16hz tune. My crossover is disabled on the sub and is at 100hz (I've tried 80hz, but 100hz was much better) So what do you guys think? Should I be noticing a huge difference with my new sub or no? Any help would really be appreciated.

If you're running a 16 Hz tune, that explains why your not gaining SPL. If you wanted to use that tune and get more headroom, you should have gotten the Plus/2. The single driver plus is not made to run at 16 Hz and blast at high SPL's. In that tune, it will play flatter and more consistent from 16-80 Hz, not have the most output. Anytime you lower the tuning frequency, you lower the SPL capability in the mid to upper bass regions.

Did you consult SVS before you bought this? A second co-located PB12 would have been my recommendation over the PB12-Plus, or the equivalent to 2 co-located PB12-nsd's would be the Plus/2. A Plus/2 would definitely be better than a PB12+ and an MBM-12 IMO.

I have coupled my new Onix REF 1's with the PB12-Ultra that I picked up Monday. I should not have waited so many years to upgrade. I have spent hours listening to movies yesterday, and music today. Music, real solid enjoyable music. I hadn't heard it this way in forever. I think I had become oblivious to the sound, not really listening. Today I was immersed in the music. The SVS sub is fast, keeping up with the REF 1's no matter what was thrown at it. They did not sound like separates. Bass drums were tight and deep, like a real concert. This is much different than what I had been hearing for so long with my old Velodyne. I pulled out the "Pictures at an Exhibition" CD, which has very deep bass from a pipe organ. The deepest notes were played with perfection, clear, and distinct. The Velodyne was more boomy. I'm really enjoying music again!

It sounds like you have a killer setup. Congrats!

I am having trouble deciding on a sub I want to wait on the Ultra/2 if it is all that I expect. Will it have a forward firing driver and grill like the pb ultra?
Bradley

They have not released the final design of the ultra/2.

This is all we have so far:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=801555

REMINDER - THIS IS TO BE A SUPPORT THREAD FOR OWNERS OF CURRENT SVS PRODUCTS THAT REQUIRE SUPPORT HELP. WE WOULD NOT CARE TO SEE THIS THREAD REMOVED BASED ON THE ACTIONS OF SOME.

THANK YOU

REMINDER - THIS IS TO BE A SUPPORT THREAD FOR OWNERS OF CURRENT SVS PRODUCTS THAT REQUIRE SUPPORT HELP. WE WOULD NOT CARE TO SEE THIS THREAD REMOVED BASED ON THE ACTIONS OF SOME.

THANK YOU


I am guessing that is directed at me. I started posting on this thread with an issue with the color of my sub, asked for pics from others to compare, got a resolution from SVS, got my new sub, and posted my thoughts on how it sounds when coupled with some new monitor speakers. Is that not what one would seek when one sees the title "SVS Owners/Support Thread"? A thread full of only problems would push a most negative image. I've read the "special rules" and the wrist-slap threads, but I still don't get the totally subjective application of the rules. Oh well--I'll stick to posting problems only I guess? :(

You know the rules: No praising SVS. JL, ok. HSU, ok. SVS, not!

Actually, David posted this same warning in the unofficial "Official HSU Owners/Support Thread".

Actually, David posted this same warning in the unofficial "Official HSU Owners/Support Thread".

It's not "exactly" the same.

From the HSU thread: NOTICE: THIS IS TO BE A SUPPORT THREAD FOR OWNERS OF CURRENT HSU PRODUCTS THAT REQUIRE SUPPORT HELP. WE WOULD NOT CARE TO SEE THIS THREAD REMOVED BASED ON THE ACTIONS OF SOME AS IT IS NOT TO BE USED TO AS A MARKETING AREA OR WHAT HAVE YOU. WE DO NOT CARE TO SEE THIS GET OUT OF CONTROL. FAIR WARNING.

Thank You


He mentions marketing in the HSU thread but not the SVS thread.

If a consumer, receiving no compensation or encouragement whatsoever from a company in question, makes a statement endorsing a particular product, is that considered marketing? If so, why?

It's not "exactly" the same.

From the HSU thread:


He mentions marketing in the HSU thread but not the SVS thread.
That's because us SVSites have been warned before and this was just a reminder. The HSUties (pronounced sue-teez) are getting their first warning.

REMINDER - THIS IS TO BE A SUPPORT THREAD FOR OWNERS OF CURRENT SVS PRODUCTS THAT REQUIRE SUPPORT HELP. WE WOULD NOT CARE TO SEE THIS THREAD REMOVED BASED ON THE ACTIONS OF SOME.

THANK YOU


I require support help getting my PB12 NSD/2 down in to my basement!

Holy crap this thing is like a monolith! Gotta get the neighbor over. DOH!

So I'm hooking up my gear after getting my receiver back from the shop. Everything is fine, except I have the two video cords mixed up on the back of my receiver. Now I realize this was a boneheaded thing to do-- I unplugged the hdmi cord to switch it with the receiver on. All the sudden my sub started buzzing wildly. How the two are related I have no idea.

Bottom line: when any cord is connected to the low level input on the sub(even if nothing is on the other end) it buzzes.. it hums even louder if it is connected to the receiver. It is an incredibly loud buzz related to the dial volume. If I run the speakers as large and the speaker cords into the sub, there is no hum and the sub produces bass. This isn't a solution for me as I have an SMS eq with no speaker terminals.

Any ideas on what I can try??? I'm about to try and take out the amp.. what should I look for? Is there some sorta ground somewhere?

Try hooking up the cable to your sub to the output of another device such as one of the analog outputs from your DVD player. See if that still produces the buzzing.

It buzzes even if the cord attached to it isn't attached to anything. It just buzzes more loudly if something is attached to the other end of the cord. No buzz at all if I pull the cord.

Try a different cord that one may be shorted internally which could cause the sub to react this way. Does it buzz with no cord?

Did you try a different cord?

Oops. clean7t is faster than I.

Yeah.. I've tried different cords, different outlets.. it just buzzes the second a cord touches it..

It's time to contact SVS.

try removing any coax cables from your tv, or your cable box. if that solves your problem than its a grounding problem. (i think)

try runing your main coax to a power cleaner, or surge protector that has a coax in and out, and that should fix the buzzing.

I was looking for a sub, heard alot of good things about SVS-went over to their site and it looks like theya re very popular, because alot of them are out of stock! I hope they re-stock quickly..
thetman

All of the SVS Ultra models are out of stock because they are getting ready to roll out the new (and larger) version of the Ultra driver.

I was looking for a sub, heard alot of good things about SVS-went over to their site and it looks like theya re very popular, because alot of them are out of stock! I hope they re-stock quickly..
thetman

I agree, SVS is popular in these groups. I recently made a purchase and expect my new sub on Tuesday.

I think the out of stock items are permanently out. You may want to take a look at this:

http://www.svsound.com/news-news.cfm

DN

Just fired up my PB12 NSD/2 and HOLY COW! I am at a loss of words. I am truly at a loss of words. This is better than the freakin movie theaters. This thing rocks my whole house. This thing moves bass straight through you. Out-freakin-standing!

Cool .. I love my SVS.... Looking at getting a 2nd... Hope wife will not notice...

REMINDER - THIS IS TO BE A SUPPORT THREAD FOR OWNERS OF CURRENT SVS PRODUCTS THAT REQUIRE SUPPORT HELP. WE WOULD NOT CARE TO SEE THIS THREAD REMOVED BASED ON THE ACTIONS OF SOME.

THANK YOU


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5899550&&#post5899550

Pot...Kettle....Black....

It's difficult to NOT tell the internet world that you like your speakers--it's natural for people(even admins) to talk up their speakers if they like them.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5899550&&#post5899550

Pot...Kettle....Black....

It's difficult to NOT tell the internet world that you like your speakers--it's natural for people(even admins) to talk up their speakers if they like them.

LOL! owned?

I just ordered my first SVS sub today the 20-39PCI based on the recommendation
of Ed Mullen @ SVS. I have a fairly small room, roughly 1300 cubic feet. I was leaning towards the 20-39PC+ but Ed assured me that for my size room the PCI
would be more than enough.

What do you guys think?

Yes, that should be more than enough.
What other subs (or "bass modules") have you owned? If it's your first "real" sub, it will blow you away.


What are you pairing it with for speakers, receiver, etc.?

petmic10,

I also orderd the PCi 20-39 today. My room is 2000 cu/ft. I have an infinity BU-120 and a infinity BU-1, so i'm expecting ia big improvement. My mains are Paradigm esprits v.3, cc-270 v.4, and my surrounds are paradigm phantoms v.2. I have an Onkyo tsx-r602s,pioneer dv-588a,sd tivo sat. receiver,a Dtv H-20 Hi-def receiver, and 46" sony Hi-def crt rptv. Good luck with ypur purchase. Let us know your thoughts when you get it and set it up.

Yes, that should be more than enough.
What other subs (or "bass modules") have you owned? If it's your first "real" sub, it will blow you away.


What are you pairing it with for speakers, receiver, etc.?

My receiver is a Denon AVR-3805 and my speakers are the Infinity
TSS-4000 Speaker system.

I've had the Infinity sub that came with the speaker system(150 RMS)
and a Sony WX-700. I guess its safe to say this will be my first real sub.

It's odd to find places that voluntarily downsell you, isn't it? But fear not, The 20-39PCi can do some impressive stuff even in a much bigger room. Plus if you ever want to switch to something else the PCi models are usually easy to sell.

It's odd to find places that voluntarily downsell you, isn't it? But fear not, The 20-39PCi can do some impressive stuff even in a much bigger room. Plus if you ever want to switch to something else the PCi models are usually easy to sell.

Yes, I thought that was terrific on their part. Most companies try to sell you more
than you need. I guess that is just part of their wonderful customer service I've
been reading about.

petmic10,

I also orderd the PCi 20-39 today. My room is 2000 cu/ft. I have an infinity BU-120 and a infinity BU-1, so i'm expecting ia big improvement. My mains are Paradigm esprits v.3, cc-270 v.4, and my surrounds are paradigm phantoms v.2. I have an Onkyo tsx-r602s,pioneer dv-588a,sd tivo sat. receiver,a Dtv H-20 Hi-def receiver, and 46" sony Hi-def crt rptv. Good luck with ypur purchase. Let us know your thoughts when you get it and set it up.

Thanks, and good luck to you also.

I will definately post my thoughts after I set it up.

I just have to make a trip to RadioShack tomorrow and see if I can find
a SPL meter.

I have to do the same (spl meter), but i'm going out of town for the rest of the weekend. At least it will past some time while i'm waiting.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5899550&&#post5899550

Pot...Kettle....Black....

It's difficult to NOT tell the internet world that you like your speakers--it's natural for people(even admins) to talk up their speakers if they like them.


GREAT CALL

How can this be allowed........talk about being a hypocrite!!!!


check out
soundandvisionmag


I just want FAIRNESS FOR ALL SUBWOOFER BRANDS........nothing more, it is clear there is something going on here...

bgillyjcu,

While I can appreciate your frustration, it can be allowed because David owns this forum. He can say whatever he likes. This is a valuable thread to many people, and it would be a shame if an admin closed it.

-Robb

bgillyjcu,

While I can appreciate your frustration, it can be allowed because David owns this forum. He can say whatever he likes.
-Robb

Well said! (pwnd)

Jack_t,

I'm not sure what "pwnd" means, but just to be clear, I'm not taking any kind of side. I just don't want to see such a valuable thread get closed.

-Robb

Jack_t,

I'm not sure what "pwnd" means, but just to be clear, I'm not taking any kind of side. I just don't want to see such a valuable thread get closed.

-Robb
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pwned

1. Pwnd

Tense of pwn.

An internet chat language variety/version of the word "owned", used in the sence of beating/defeating/outclas sing someone. Usually used in games such as Counter-strike or on messageboards when a user posts arguments or insults that can't possibly be counter-argued.

Arguably considered so-called "l33t-speak"

"I pwnd you that round" "You just got pwnd dude" "I am going to pwn you like I did your mother last night"


1. Pwned

A corruption of the word "Owned." This originated in an online game called Warcraft, where a map designer misspelled "owned." When the computer beat a player, it was supposed to say, so-and-so "has been owned."

Instead, it said, so-and-so "has been pwned."

It basically means "to own" or to be dominated by an opponent or situation, especially by some god-like or computer-like force.

"Man, I rock at my job, but I still got a bad evaluation. I was pwned."

OR

"That team totally pwned us."

Yeah that's pretty much it. Play any online game for a few hours and you will probably see it pop up several times.

Yeah that's pretty much it. Play any online game for a few hours and you will probably see it pop up several times.

It was a reference to an earlier post in this thread. :)

DrPainMD,

Thanks for the edification! I make my living writing software used over the Internet, but I'm not into video games. I must be getting old... I have no desire to "own", or "pwn", anyone. This is a great thread, and I want to see it stay open. That's all.

-Robb

P.S. As I'm lobbying for this thread, I should make clear that I'm not only an SVS customer, but that SVS is one of my customers. Anyone who has seen me post in any thread that involved SVS' competition would know that, but it's worth repeating now.

-Robb

DrPainMD,

Thanks for the edification! I make my living writing software used over the Internet, but I'm not into video games. I must be getting old... I have no desire to "own", or "pwn", anyone. This is a great thread, and I want to see it stay open. That's all.

-Robb

P.S. As I'm lobbying for this thread, I should make clear that I'm not only an SVS customer, but that SVS is one of my customers. Anyone who has seen me post in any thread that involved SVS' competition would know that, but it's worth repeating now.

-Robb

no problem,

how is SVS one of your customers?

DrPainMD,

I do software-related work for them, and I have helped them at the last couple of CES shows as an extra "hand on deck".

-Robb

Owned...

sure...why fight for what we believe is right....guess it is easier and better just to bow down and sit there and do nothing...

jesyjames,

I missed your posts. My apologies. My email notifications for this thread are sporadic to say the least. The latest one I got put me in well after your posts, and I'm just now reading back into the thread. Probably a problem with gmail...

Did you ever get a resolution to your problem? Have you tried swapping out your RCA cable to the sub? The advice you got about contacting SVS tech support is good advice, but I thought I'd follow up as long as I was going through this thread.

-Robb

DrPainMD,

I do software-related work for them, and I have helped them at the last couple of CES shows as an extra "hand on deck".

-RobbHooker patrol??? :p

I've just ordered a 20-39PCi and am wondering what the normal "real world" shipping time is? Do they normally ship the same day, same week or what?

I'd say it will be at your door in 3-5 business days. When I ordered my speakers I had them in 2 days (I live in ohio though). I see you live in NC which is not that far from Ohio where they are coming from...

I'd say it will be at your door in 3-5 business days. When I ordered my speakers I had them in 2 days (I live in ohio though). I see you live in NC which is not that far from Ohio where they are coming from...

Thanks, I'm eager to see if I can shake the house down!!

Anyone upgrade there 20-39 PCI From ISD to the new NSD woofer ?
If so did you notice any change in SQ or extension ? Was it worth it ?

I ordered a 20-39PC+ last Sunday and had it on Wed. and I live in Charlotte, so I would say you will have it 3-4 days from the day you placed your order.

Hey..........anyone use Nemo as a reference. DARLA TAPS THE TANK scene???

Join my thread about the results.....the first post has all the information!

I'd like to see more of my SVS BROTHERS join in !!!


Especailly if anyone has some PC+ 's (since thats what I have :D)

For a lark I put the SVS 39PC+ on my Christmas list and to my surprise my wife bought it for me (I saw this huge box under or really by the Christmas tree).

It is part of my system which includes Pinnacle gold reference Towers for front L/R, Pinnacle gold reference center, and four Pinnacle gold reference mini-monitors for surround and rear all powered by the Outlaw 950/770 combo. I had the Pinnacle 250 watt sub which I felt was underpowered for my room (15 feet by 22 feet and 8 feet high, with no openings).

Using the Radio Shack sound meter I set all my speakers at 75db with the sub-woofer at 80db. The subwoofer is in my front right corner. The difference in sound was immediately noticeable especially with new DVD's such as Pirates of the Carribbean II. You feel the sound as much as hear it.

I should mention that when I had sent my room measurements to SVS they recommended the 39PC+.

My only problem is that our home theater room is directly below our bedroom and when my wife is watching TV above she certainly knows when I am watching an action movie. Is there something I can put on the ceiling such as acoustical tiles to try and prevent bass sounds from moving through the ceiling?

John

Egg cartons!


Haha, jk.
No, you're pretty much screwed there. You can calibrate the sub a little less hot, and/or turn it down. But it's still going to be audible.


Great wife you have, btw. :D

sbarrier,

I ordered my PCi 20-39 on friday, and as of 4:28 this morning it was scanned in Buffalo, as of 5:38 it was out for delivery. So sometime this afternoon I will be hooking up my new sub. The ups tracking is great. Enjoy your new sub.

For a lark I put the SVS 39PC+ on my Christmas list and to my surprise my wife bought it for me (I saw this huge box under or really by the Christmas tree).

It is part of my system which includes Pinnacle gold reference Towers for front L/R, Pinnacle gold reference center, and four Pinnacle gold reference mini-monitors for surround and rear all powered by the Outlaw 950/770 combo. I had the Pinnacle 250 watt sub which I felt was underpowered for my room (15 feet by 22 feet and 8 feet high, with no openings).

Using the Radio Shack sound meter I set all my speakers at 75db with the sub-woofer at 80db. The subwoofer is in my front right corner. The difference in sound was immediately noticeable especially with new DVD's such as Pirates of the Carribbean II. You feel the sound as much as hear it.

I should mention that when I had sent my room measurements to SVS they recommended the 39PC+.

My only problem is that our home theater room is directly below our bedroom and when my wife is watching TV above she certainly knows when I am watching an action movie. Is there something I can put on the ceiling such as acoustical tiles to try and prevent bass sounds from moving through the ceiling?

John


80db for the sub is pretty hot if you listen loud or kinda loud...

I might scale that back to a 77db reading or even less....

You have to consider that a 77db reading would really be a little higher because of the correction factor that needs to be figured into the SPL meter...

80db is like running 83db
77db is like running 80db
75db is like running 78db


Personally.....I run my sub about 72db which comes out to about 75db...thus about running flat with my other speakers....

Thanks for the replies. I'll play around with the sound level. One solution that seems to workis to make sure when we watch movies together on my system (which includes an Infocus front projector) is too watch stuff that she likes (mostly old movies from the 1930's and 1940's) and I am learning to appreciate Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers along with Charlie Chan. As a result my wife is more accepting when I play something loud that uses lots of bass.

John

My only problem is that our home theater room is directly below our bedroom and when my wife is watching TV above she certainly knows when I am watching an action movie. Is there something I can put on the ceiling such as acoustical tiles to try and prevent bass sounds from moving through the ceiling?

John

My nextdoor neighbors were wondering the same thing :D

Seriously, I also have the HT under my Master Bedroom, though not originally planned that way. I therefore need to 'act responsibly', as she puts it, when she is above watching her programs as well.

Hello,

Wonder if anyone could give me some insight. Is there a considerable difference in the PB12 NSD/2 VS. the PB12 Plus 2 performance wise?? Any info would be great. Thanks.....

email
edm@svsound.com

He'll tell you everything you could possibly want to know about the subwoofers...

That's absolutely correct.

That email address will take you directly to Ed Mullen. I cannot think of a better resource to answer subwoofer related questions, regardless of manufacturer. He just happens to be currently affiliated with SVS now. Tell him as much as you can about your situation in extreme detail, consider his advice thoughtfully, ... and do exactly what he says.


Tim

Hello,

Wonder if anyone could give me some insight. Is there a considerable difference in the PB12 NSD/2 VS. the PB12 Plus 2 performance wise?? Any info would be great. Thanks.....

I haven't heard the PB12 Plus 2, but I have the NSD/2 in my 14x24 basement and it shakes my house down. Totally satisfied with it...

Thanks for the info guys........I like to get info on equipment thats being used in a real world application. :)

Just set up my knew SVS 20-39pci sub in my room and let me tell this thing
sounds unbelievable. I have a very small room(1300 cu. ft.) and this thing is
really impressive.

Here is a pic.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o316/petmic10/th_DSCN0648.jpg (http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o316/petmic10/DSCN0648.jpg)

Just set up my knew SVS 20-39pci sub in my room and let me tell this thing
sounds unbelievable. I have a very small room(1300 cu. ft.) and this thing is
really impressive.

Here is a pic.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o316/petmic10/th_DSCN0648.jpg (http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o316/petmic10/DSCN0648.jpg)


They say you can never have too much sub-- but it's possible you've disproven that adage.

They say you can never have too much sub-- but it's possible you've disproven that adage.

I know, and to think I wanted the 20-39pc+ :D

Give him 2-3 months....the initial shock will fade and he'll want more.

I now know from experience.....get 1 level above what you think you will need. That will help to fend off the "upgradeitis" we all develop!!!! :D

Give him 2-3 months....the initial shock will fade and he'll want more.

I now know from experience.....get 1 level above what you think you will need. That will help to fend off the "upgradeitis" we all develop!!!! :D

I could always buy a second 20-39pci for the other side of the room. :D

I could always buy a second 20-39pci for the other side of the room. :D

Unless your heart implodes, you don't really have a good system.

I could always buy a second 20-39pci for the other side of the room. :D


Now you are thinking like a true Bass head! Don't put them on opposite sides....put them in the same exact corner and you'd get +6db more headroom. Opposite corners maybe only 3-4db more, with some possible cancelation issues...


If you heard my 16-46+ you would probably think....who needs more bass.....then after a couple days you'd think....man I want another one and +6db more headroom :D

What driver was put into the SVS plus cylinders in 2004?

thanks

I would venture to guess the 12.1 But maybe the 12.2. Anyone know this specific answer?

It is going to be either the 12.1 or the 12.2

You can tell the difference by shining a flashlight down one of the port tubes, and looking at the driver magnet. The 12.2 has a black rubber ring around the outside of the magnet. The 12.1 does not have the rubber ring.

Tim

thanks

Is there a big performance difference among the 12.1 12.2 12.3 drivers?

Do the newer drivers provide higher SPL or better SQ or both?

thanks

Is there a big performance difference among the 12.1 12.2 12.3 drivers?

Do the newer drivers provide higher SPL or better SQ or both?


Some of it is subjective, but there is approximately a 1 db difference in output with each revision. The sound quality is very close, when pushed to the absolute limits the newer drivers perform a little better.

Oh, the aggravation! I waited at home all day for UPS to deliver my PB10 and just found a notice on my door saying they attempted delivery. I don't think the driver wanted to heft the thing up to my home and just tagged the door without trying to determine if anyone was home. dang. I hope the wait is worth it.

PS, I spent a lot of time monitoring this thread and one(s) about HSU trying to decide which way to go. I chose SVS based on this thread. I chose the PB10 as I'm in a condo and I don't think the neighbors will be happy with this one, much less something bigger.

thanks

Is there a big performance difference among the 12.1 12.2 12.3 drivers?

Do the newer drivers provide higher SPL or better SQ or both?I went from the 12.2 to 12.3 and noticed an immediate difference. The newer driver is more efficient. I had to turn down the bass down about 2db. Also, my FR became flatter between 40-70hz. So I'd say the upgrade is worth it, but it's room and placement dependent. SQ was excellent before and as I said, the new driver immediately sounded better. However, after a short time my audible memory forgot what the older woofer sounded like :rolleyes: . It's a nice upgrade for a reasonable price without having to buy a new sub. I'd suggest playing with your new toy awhile until you get the itch. I think you have the 12.2.

Hi Anyone upgrade there 20-39 PCI from the Isd woofer to the new Nsd woofer
If so did you notice Any change in SQ and extension ? Was it worth it ?

I have "2" 20-39's with the NSD woofers and I LOVE THEM! I've got more bass than I know what to do with!

Oh, the aggravation! I waited at home all day for UPS to deliver my PB10 and just found a notice on my door saying they attempted delivery. I don't think the driver wanted to heft the thing up to my home and just tagged the door without trying to determine if anyone was home. dang. I hope the wait is worth it.

PS, I spent a lot of time monitoring this thread and one(s) about HSU trying to decide which way to go. I chose SVS based on this thread. I chose the PB10 as I'm in a condo and I don't think the neighbors will be happy with this one, much less something bigger.

Definitely worth the wait :) Don't worry bout your neighbours they'll bound to get used to it. :D Yeah Right!!! :D Just shoot for the best spot for the sub to sound the best at the listening position and the rest is history.....

Hi everyone! I just wanted to check in on the thread again and say how happy I am with my new 20-39+. I’m still waiting on my x-series setup, so just have them mated with my JBL N24 setup. I replaced a Hsu STF-2 (was very happy with it, but it didn’t fill my room), and the bigger 20-39+ is a major improvement. I now understand what is meant by “filling a room”. I tried the sub in different spots and found one corner off to the side of the TV was by far the best placement. I’ve learned a lot about location and it makes a huge difference. My wife even sat wide-eyed and said “it sounds like the bass is coming out of all the walls in the room!” She hates my HT stuff, but she could at least appreciate that the sound is much better now. It is just so thrilling (and strange at the same time) to have the bass sound like it is coming from every direction in the room. The room is just filled with it. I should have the rest of my speakers in a few weeks and can’t wait.

One of the big differences I have now is that I can feel the bass before it starts shaking the room. Even at low levels it can be heard/felt throughout the room. At loud levels it can be felt by neighbors, but that’s to be expected. My neighbor/landlord mentioned that her whole house was shaking last weekend (houses are too close together in Japan anyway). Luckily, she wasn’t mad. Her son is Bosozoku (Japanese motorcycle gang that makes their bikes VERY loud and revs their engines constantly), so she really can’t complain about noise levels.

That's funny!
How was the shipping to Japan? That's a big-@$$ sub to do international!

douglas-b
Thanks for the reply. Did you upgrade from the Isd woofer ?

I have a 10" isd driver and I noticed that there is no upgrade option for this. I don't need one right away but when it comes time to replace it can I?

ya...just email SVS, I'm sure they will be happy to help you upgrade

I have a 10" isd driver and I noticed that there is no upgrade option for this. I don't need one right away but when it comes time to replace it can I?SVS originally stated that the 10" NSD driver was a lateral upgrade for the 10" ISD. It was done only to bring production in-house. Because it offered no demonstrable improvement in performance, they did not make it available as an upgrade to ISD owners. It is fairly common knowledge that the 10" ISD driver exceeded expectations. Ron S. referred to it as a freak of nature and even Craig Chase's (craigsub) brother (whose's company builds speakers) and some of his employees were surprised by the performance of the PB10-ISD.

That's funny!
How was the shipping to Japan? That's a big-@$$ sub to do international!


Shipping was outstanding! I have a military address (I'm a civilian over here), so they used USPS parcel post. I got the sub in 6 days and there wasn't a mark on the box at all. The guys at the post office wheeled it around to the loading dock in the back so I could put it in my van...it is a big box!

this is the email i sent to SVS. does anybody have an idea of what could be wrong. also this is my very first post. my name is drew and i am from missouri. hello

Hello, I just purchased your pb2/plus subwoofer a few weeks ago. Until today I had not had a problem with it, in fact I loved it. But all of a sudden today it is making a low pitch hum when powered on. It makes this hum whether or not it has the sub cable from the amp is plugged in. Another symptom is that it sounds like its running at only half capacity, both subs are running, I checked. Even with the gain set at ¾ and my receiver at +12db it barely makes a peep. I have confirmed these symptoms on another receiver using a different subwoofer cable from the amp. I do consider myself somewhat intelligent and am pretty sure that I have a faulty product. Please advise.

Hi Drew. Sounds as though the amp might have gone bad. I'm betting SVS will wind up sending you out a replacement amp and have you swap them. I know they will take good care of you.

Hi Drew. Sounds as though the amp might have gone bad. I'm betting SVS will wind up sending you out a replacement amp and have you swap them. I know they will take good care of you.

I have ordered the amp and i must say SVS has really taken good care of me. A big thank you to Eric and Tom at SVS for their help.

anyone know what a used 20-39 pc+ goes for? i'm thinking about selling it to a friend
so i'd like the find a fair price. had it for a while but neighbors kept complaining and i don't use it much anymore.

would a different sub be better in my case? townhouse=shared walls. :mad:

There is currently one about to close on Ebay at the moment the bid is $600 plus shipping. It closes in about three hours.

I'm the proud new owner of a PCi 20 39

The sound is incredible and the service top notch.

Thanks SVS!

I'm the proud new owner of a PCi 20 39

The sound is incredible and the service top notch.

Thanks SVS!

Congrats, I just got the same sub about two weeks ago and its by far the
best sub i've ever owned.

I have been the proud owner of a PB12+/2 for a few weeks now and I realized that I was never able to get the little rubber stubs under it. It is on a porcelain tile floor which is over a cement slab. Should I attempt to lift this 140lb monster to attach these or just forget about it? In the past I have utilized speaker spikes to isolate my stands and I 'think' I heard an improvement in the sound. I just wonder if it there would be an improvement, or am I risking a hernia/broken fingers for nothing?

I have been the proud owner of a PB12+/2 for a few weeks now and I realized that I was never able to get the little rubber stubs under it. It is on a porcelain tile floor which is over a cement slab. Should I attempt to lift this 140lb monster to attach these or just forget about it? In the past I have utilized speaker spikes to isolate my stands and I 'think' I heard an improvement in the sound. I just wonder if it there would be an improvement, or am I risking a hernia/broken fingers for nothing?

If you're not hearing any rattling of the sub against the floor, and the sub isn't moving, don't bother. If either of those is the case, though, I would put them on. My guess is that on that floor you'll start to hear some rattling, or see the sub crawl.

-Robb

Been down to long!

Been down to long!

Righto...CC (or BB?) has U571 for five bucks this week. I heard that kicks @$$ for bass. Gotta give my PB12-NSD/2 a workout!

Righto...CC (or BB?) has U571 for five bucks this week. I heard that kicks @$$ for bass. Gotta give my PB12-NSD/2 a workout!

I watched it the other day and the depth charge scene near the end is
intense.

Getting my second CS Ultra installed and configured this weekend... REALLY looking forward to it ;)

That movie is definitely one of my favorite for bass and for surround sound in general. It's also a very watchable movie.

"Mister Hirsch, step away from that bulkhead. The shockwave from one of these explosions could snap your spine. "

Just received my Pb-12 plus today ,sounds great but have not calibrated it yet . I will hook up my sms-1 mike later and check the results, but so far the results with Darla on the fish tank are amazing

Post your Darla Results in the Darla Thread and I'll update it!

Does that 'phase' knob really need calibrating? I just have it set to the middle. I suppose I should get one of those meters.

Yes, getting the phase knob is very important. If the sub is out of phase with the main speakers, you could have cancellation where they overlap, leaving you with a hole in sound 5~20Hz wide.

You'll need an SPL meter plus the Avia DVD.

guys in south florida (and anywhere in the country who will be in south florida in the middle of april):

sign up for the JL Audio facilities field trip....limited space, so 1st come 1st serve:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=819899

should be cool to see how a sub manufacturing works, since Ohio is a bit far for many of us to go check out Ron/Tom and crew! :D

I have noticed the SVS new MTS speaker line has been pushed back to Fall '07. This will force me to go elsewhere. I was told by SVS that when they pushed them back to Fall '06, that these were not going to be phantom products. We have seen Ron comment on how soon they would be released and that they will be well worth waiting for. But now they are going out another 6 to 8 months. I'm done waiting.

These kinds of delays are the reason I stayed away from the HO in the first place and bought a +/2.

How many others have had it with the delays?

Better delays than product releases that turn into disasters as we've seen. With SVS a newbie speaker company I'd rather wait to make sure they sell good stuff.

Personally if music reproduction were important I'd go elsewhere for my speakers. Still love my SVS sub though.

kw.........

I have noticed the SVS new MTS speaker line has been pushed back to Fall '07. This will force me to go elsewhere. I was told by SVS that when they pushed them back to Fall '06, that these were not going to be phantom products. We have seen Ron comment on how soon they would be released and that they will be well worth waiting for. But now they are going out another 6 to 8 months. I'm done waiting.

These kinds of delays are the reason I stayed away from the HO in the first place and bought a +/2. SVS has just lost another customer and defender. :mad:

How many others have had it with the delays?

I had the same issue with the new Ultras. I sold my Ultra/2 at the beginning of last year (prematurely) in hopes of getting the new Ultra/2 or even the Ultra. But, they have been delayed one too many times for me. I originally bought 2 PB10s to hold me over, but I grew bored and decided to go the DIY route.

I am very thankful for getting that push I needed to go into DIY though! Much better performance for MUCH less money....

I was very interested in the MTS too. But, it appears I will be elsewhere for a speaker solution as well. Thanks for posting that delay and saving me from another stretch of wasted time.

I don't fault them for the delays. Better that than releasing junk. They do make some great gear for the money.

Personally if music reproduction were important I'd go elsewhere for my speakers. Still love my SVS sub though.



Yes, there are plenty of speaker companies out there to try out and compare, that are out now and have been out for years.

I wouldn't want them to release a flawed product either, but on Feb 8, Ron posted a statement in another forum that they were very close. Not.

This is from the SVS News on Feb 13:
"Soon to come, updates on the long-awaited MTS-01 family of loudspeakers. Delayed, but rapid progress to market is now under way (and cutting-edge components part of the bargain). Tens of thousands of SVS fans won't believe what we're packing in there (neither will our few critics). "

I have been patient since June '06. This is the third and last delay I have seen.

Looks like I will be getting the Ascends after all.

I wouldn't want them to release a flawed product either, but on Feb 8, Ron posted a statement in another forum that they were very close. Not.

This is from the SVS News on Feb 13:
"Soon to come, updates on the long-awaited MTS-01 family of loudspeakers. Delayed, but rapid progress to market is now under way (and cutting-edge components part of the bargain). Tens of thousands of SVS fans won't believe what we're packing in there (neither will our few critics). "

I have been patient since June '06. This is the third and last delay I have seen.

Looks like I will be getting the Ascends after all.


I agree! I have been wanting to buy a Ultra for almost a month now. I would have bought an PB12/2 Ultra but they are not available either. I keep looking over the flyer and telling myself that the new Ultras are worth the wait even though it is getting harder and harder to resist getting another brand that is available for order now. Tom said that there will be good discounts during the pre-order period especially if you order duals, so I plan to do that.
Bradley
Bradley
Bradley

I agree! I have been wanting to buy a Ultra for almost a month now. I would have bought an PB12/2 Ultra but they are not available either. I keep looking over the flyer and telling myself that the new Ultras are worth the wait even though it is getting harder and harder to resist getting another brand that is available for order now. Tom said that there will be good discounts during the pre-order period especially if you order duals, so I plan to do that.
Bradley
Bradley
Bradley


I just wish they would be a lot more honest about product timeline. Too much stringing people along only to delay repeatedly.

Product launches, especially for small companies, require a ton of resources, R&D, manufacturing templates and supply chain. Any facet going off kilter will create delays. I don't know this, but redesigning the Ultra shortly after bringing the driver's in house has got to have been a monster project. Managing this, as well as, the branch off into their midfi speaker offering has exposed them to snafus (I'm guessing). I'll give them a pass. They normally aren't more than a few weeks or months behind a product annoucements.

Product launches, especially for small companies, require a ton of resources, R&D, manufacturing templates and supply chain. Any facet going off kilter will create delays. I don't know this, but redesigning the Ultra shortly after bringing the driver's in house has got to have been a monster project. Managing this, as well as, the branch off into their midfi speaker offering has exposed them to snafus (I'm guessing). I'll give them a pass. They normally aren't more than a few weeks or months behind a product annoucements.

No question Ron, I agree wholeheartedly and well put. My only point of contention is that talk started about some of these product almost two years ago and now they have no Ultras to sell even in old form. I am not ragging on them at all and I have owned almost a dozen SVS products and referred them to countless friends, etc. It is just very dissappointing to be waiting for a product only te be let down by delays. Such is the nature of the beast.

go buy your other brands :) I wouldn't want to be on the waiting list with the whole lot of you. you can all fall in line after me.

go buy your other brands :) I wouldn't want to be on the waiting list with the whole lot of you. you can all fall in line after me.

No worries for me, you can have my spot. I went DIY and will NEVER go back! Still have my PB10s and they will be hard to part with. They are fun to experiment with...

I thank SVS for getting me into this hobby though! Ron, Tom, Eric, and Ed are all fantastic people and valuable members of the audio community.

Product launches, especially for small companies, require a ton of resources, R&D, manufacturing templates and supply chain. Any facet going off kilter will create delays. I don't know this, but redesigning the Ultra shortly after bringing the driver's in house has got to have been a monster project. Managing this, as well as, the branch off into their midfi speaker offering has exposed them to snafus (I'm guessing). I'll give them a pass. They normally aren't more than a few weeks or months behind a product annoucements.

Ron is spot-on here.

The PB13-Ultra, PC13-Ultra, and MTS-01 are ramping up - no vaporware - only normal delays and snafus. Parts are streaming into the factory almost daily at this point, while we're waiting on others.

To those who have waited patiently while our deadlines slipped, I can only apologize and say I can't blame you for being sore - I would be mad too. No one is more unhappy about this than everyone at SVS. I won't offer any excuses, as they would only appear disingenuous.

Whenever there is an update worthy of print, we'll post it to the SVS News Page and hot link it here. Ditto for pre-orders.

Ed Mullen

Thanks for the update Ed. You guys have been great to deal with, thank you for your time in helping me select a sub.
I was wondering why there is little mention of SVS in magazines? I noticed that in most buyers guides there is no mention of SVS, or when there is a comparison of top subs they leave SVS out. What is up with that? SAVES makes some of the greatest subs ever why don't magazines give SVS the credit deserved?
Bradley

Thanks for the update Ed. You guys have been great to deal with, thank you for your time in helping me select a sub.
I was wondering why there is little mention of SVS in magazines? I noticed that in most buyers guides there is no mention of SVS, or when there is a comparison of top subs they leave SVS out. What is up with that? SAVES makes some of the greatest subs ever why don't magazines give SVS the credit deserved?
Bradley

Hi Bradley:

This is all about advertising dollars. The companies that get reviewed the most are very large and established with huge advertising budgets. We place ads whenever possible, but have you priced a full-page ad in S&V lately? ;)

I can think of several subwoofers from (comparatively) small OEMs that walk all over the subs from many big-name OEMs that you will probably never see advertised/reviewed in the publications. It's just an unfortunate reality; the best advice I can give is to write these publications and tell them what products (not just SVS) you want to see reviewed.

Looking at buyng the PB12-NSD with 3 SCS mains and 4 SBS surrounds for the basement HT/Family room.
Question, my wife and I were talking about her job (elementary music teacher) the conversation drifted and I was remembering the scene in Close Encounters and was thinking about the low notes and power those should have to test a sub.

has anyone used them? are they really low enough (what is the freq?)?

Ron is spot-on here.

The PB13-Ultra, PC13-Ultra, and MTS-01 are ramping up - no vaporware - only normal delays and snafus. Parts are streaming into the factory almost daily at this point, while we're waiting on others.

To those who have waited patiently while our deadlines slipped, I can only apologize and say I can't blame you for being sore - I would be mad too. No one is more unhappy about this than everyone at SVS. I won't offer any excuses, as they would only appear disingenuous.

Whenever there is an update worthy of print, we'll post it to the SVS News Page and hot link it here. Ditto for pre-orders.

Ed MullenEd, my disappointment is due to the long wait for the MTS line. I first became interested in them in April '06. It has been almost a year and now it looks like another 6 to 9 months. I don't know when the MTS "Coming Soon" was first posted on the SVS web site, but 18+ months is a long time to string people along. Add to this that Ron has said, on at least a couple occasions, that they were very close to production and would be well worth the wait, and you can see why I call these phantom products. I was assured by Ron that these wouldn't be handled like the HO was.

If nothing else, you need to start releasing info on the FR, power handling, efficiency, compliment of drivers... Anything to prove progress is being made.

Hi Randy:

Ping Ron at rons@svsound.com and see if you can pry loose a few details from him. ;) I've told him to expect your email.......

I don't want to sound like an SVS fanboy, but. Developing new products is an
extremely costly and time consuming thing to do. Now imagine this, youv'e spent
2 years researching, building, and developing a new sub (or any product). You
are basically placing the whole future of your company on this product. Think
about it, if the new 13 stinks, SVS is done. Ok, so youv'e got all this work done,
been making good headway, then a competitor (JL?) releases a truly world class
product. Suddenly, you are back at square one, with the same stated release
date. The spec's of a product like this are a moving target untill the first unit
comes off the assembly line.

The curse of our addiction is we alway want to create better sound, better picture.
Sometimes we need to just sit back and enjoy what we have. Will the new 13"
Ultra sound great? I'm sure it will, but that doesn't change the fact that my current
Ultra/2 also sounds great.

I don't want to sound like an SVS fanboy, but. Developing new products is an
extremely costly and time consuming thing to do. Now imagine this, youv'e spent
2 years researching, building, and developing a new sub (or any product). You
are basically placing the whole future of your company on this product. Think
about it, if the new 13 stinks, SVS is done. Ok, so youv'e got all this work done,
been making good headway, then a competitor (JL?) releases a truly world class
product. Suddenly, you are back at square one, with the same stated release
date. The spec's of a product like this are a moving target untill the first unit
comes off the assembly line.

The curse of our addiction is we alway want to create better sound, better picture.
Sometimes we need to just sit back and enjoy what we have. Will the new 13"
Ultra sound great? I'm sure it will, but that doesn't change the fact that my current
Ultra/2 also sounds great.

Are you saying that SVS wants the 13 to be equivalent to or better than the 113? It will be half the price, I think they will just be happy if it beats out the HSU HO Turbo, which I think it will. If two 13's are equivalent to the JL then that would be a great product at the price. Anything more and they will hit a major home run! I don't believe one model will make or break this company.

I don't want to sound like an SVS fanboy, but. Developing new products is an
extremely costly and time consuming thing to do. Now imagine this, youv'e spent
2 years researching, building, and developing a new sub (or any product). You
are basically placing the whole future of your company on this product. Think
about it, if the new 13 stinks, SVS is done. Ok, so youv'e got all this work done,
been making good headway, then a competitor (JL?) releases a truly world class
product. Suddenly, you are back at square one, with the same stated release
date. The spec's of a product like this are a moving target untill the first unit
comes off the assembly line.

The curse of our addiction is we alway want to create better sound, better picture.
Sometimes we need to just sit back and enjoy what we have. Will the new 13"
Ultra sound great? I'm sure it will, but that doesn't change the fact that my current
Ultra/2 also sounds great.

The F113 didn't alter the course of the PB13-Ultra at all, actually. These are two completely different subwoofers from a size/alignment/price/demographic standpoint.

If/when we introduce the SB13-Ultra, we would expect inevitable comparisons to something like the F113, Servo-15, Velo DD15, etc.

Ed, my disappointment is due to the long wait for the MTS line. I first became interested in them in April '06. It has been almost a year and now it looks like another 6 to 9 months. I don't know when the MTS "Coming Soon" was first posted on the SVS web site, but 18+ months is a long time to string people along. Add to this that Ron has said, on at least a couple occasions, that they were very close to production and would be well worth the wait, and you can see why I call these phantom products. I was assured by Ron that these wouldn't be handled like the HO was.

If nothing else, you need to start releasing info on the FR, power handling, efficiency, compliment of drivers... Anything to prove progress is being made.


I am in the camp that I would rather see SVS spend more time in R&D, take their time with a product and get it right then to rush something out the door that is sub par. Now I do also want to note that I don't think they should have put any info up on their website in regards to the MTS coming soon. It has been there for way too long. If it isn't coming soon then don't advertise it. Maybe they should have just mentioned that they were working on some mid towers but have no time frame on when they were going to be available. After owning the SBS 01 speakers, I was highly anticipating the release of the MTS line but I was also under the impression that they were coming late 2006 early 2007. Now knowing they wont be out until late 2007, I decided to shop around and listen to other speakers. I ended up getting some Rocket RS 450's from av123. I just hope that SVS's new PC13 is not a tease and will be out sooner than later.

Jeff you got a PM..

Jeff you got a PM..

Brandon. You got a reply. :)

I just got my new SB-12 from Sonic Boom Audio in Canada.
Thanks to them for their quick shipping and SVS for answering all the questions I had.
As it turns out I spent a bit of time with my new sub over the last couple of days and she is quite the little performer. I have a small room and the low end bass during the battle scenes in Master and Commander are truly amazing. I am coming from a 150 watt 8 inch sub so the bass that that you can feel in your chest is all brand new. Overall the sound quality is as good as all the reviews say...damn good.

On the downside the quality of the dials on the rear of the sub seem a little 'low end'. Many of the dials measure past or prior to the max or min levels and one of them is difficult to turn. I thought maybe it was damaged in transit, but there were no marks on the box or in the packing. I would send it back for a replacement but I dont want to spend more money on shipping.

Just FYI.

I think you have to basically take the same attitude with speakers as with computer hardware or pretty much everything else: Evaluate what is out now, because something better will always be around the corner. I am interested in their speakers as, thus far, their design philosophy impresses me, but I'm not going to make any plans based around them. When they come out, I'll have a look at them and if I think I want to replace what I've got, I'll start saving for it. However if I had a new system I needed built soon, I'd use other speakers rather than wait because you just never know.

Delays happen to everyone, hell look at ATi. They really, really want a graphics card to compete with nVidia's 8800 which is currently unmatched. However for various reasons they've had to push the launch back probably till May. It happens, and that's just how it goes, and ATi has many times the resources SVS does.

So basically if you need speakers now, then get something else, because the SVS speakers aren't out now. Even if they were released tomorrow, you don't know how soon you could get them because there could always be demand in excess of supply. If you have a system and you think you might want these as upgrades, well then wait. I mean you've got something that works fine, wait for these if they are what you want. Throw the money in an interest bearing account and see what happens.

Just recieved my PB-10NSD from SVS yesterday. It replaced a Onkyo SKW-530, and i must say i'm pretty impressed with this sub. Still gotta calibrate the sub tho. There's a night and day difference between the two, but from what i'm experiencing right now the Onkyo sub had like loud bass (sorry don't really know how to describe it) and the SVS had some really clean sounding bas and could get pretty low(heard windows and some other things in the house rattling that never did rattle). Oh and crossed over at 80 on my AVR-887. Although the PB-10 seems like it does'nt really do well in the higher freq (is that normal)? Maybe because i gotta calibrate it...right. I got AVIA and a RS digital meter. Any pointers on gain, phase, etc settings? right now i have the sub gain at the 10 oclock pos. and phase at 0. Well i'll let you guys know if i run into any trouble with it.

Just recieved my PB-10NSD from SVS yesterday. It replaced a Onkyo SKW-530, and i must say i'm pretty impressed with this sub. Still gotta calibrate the sub tho. There's a night and day difference between the two, but from what i'm experiencing right now the Onkyo sub had like loud bass (sorry don't really know how to describe it) and the SVS had some really clean sounding bas and could get pretty low(heard windows and some other things in the house rattling that never did rattle). Oh and crossed over at 80 on my AVR-887. Although the PB-10 seems like it does'nt really do well in the higher freq (is that normal)? Maybe because i gotta calibrate it...right. I got AVIA and a RS digital meter. Any pointers on gain, phase, etc settings? right now i have the sub gain at the 10 oclock pos. and phase at 0. Well i'll let you guys know if i run into any trouble with it.

Congrats! You will love the PB10! However, there is no way so suggest any settings. You need to callibrate in your room.

Just recieved my PB-10NSD from SVS yesterday. It replaced a Onkyo SKW-530, and i must say i'm pretty impressed with this sub. Still gotta calibrate the sub tho. There's a night and day difference between the two, but from what i'm experiencing right now the Onkyo sub had like loud bass (sorry don't really know how to describe it) and the SVS had some really clean sounding bas and could get pretty low(heard windows and some other things in the house rattling that never did rattle). Oh and crossed over at 80 on my AVR-887. Although the PB-10 seems like it does'nt really do well in the higher freq (is that normal)? Maybe because i gotta calibrate it...right. I got AVIA and a RS digital meter. Any pointers on gain, phase, etc settings? right now i have the sub gain at the 10 oclock pos. and phase at 0. Well i'll let you guys know if i run into any trouble with it.That Onkyo sub probably never output below 40hz. The PB10 is flat from ~ 18hz - 80hz. You are probably getting some room gain from 35hz down which is veiling the upper bass a bit. Placement and calibration will tell you what sounds the best. To find out what's going on with your frequency response, you'll need to download some tones and measure their response with the meter. Most untreated rooms will have a hole somewhere between 50 and 70hz.

I would agree with you Ron. He is probably "blinded" by the room gain at 25-35hz and how powerful that can be compared to 60-80hz bass. If he measured the upper bass he would probably find the PB-10 is doing a better job than the old one....the problem will just be that the PB-10 is now doing a MUCH MUCH better job under 40hz too...

I know right now I'm pretty flat expect at 40hz....at my listening position I have a null from 40-50hz which can be annoying. For now I'm going to live with it until the 2nd sub, bass traps, and EQ are added down the road...

I am interested in two SB12-plus'. It looks like all of the comparisons are between this small sub to the larger SVS subs, which we all know is not a fair fight. I was wondering if anyone has compared the SB12-plus to other small subs like the Paridigm Seismic 12 or the Velodyne SPL1200. I could get two of the SB12-plus subs for the price of one of these others.

Anyone have any experiences?

Thanks
Greg

I can't speak of comparisons between the SB12's and others mentioned, but as far as sound quality, those SB's take a back seat to nothing IMHO. For me, a pair in stereo for music is bliss. For HT, they're not bad, but they won't shake the house.

Guy's

I have the major upgrade bug, and have been trying to sell my PB12-Plus/2 with no luck. Do you think 1K is to high for a Piano Black with 12.2 drivers?

Thanks

Guy's

I have the major upgrade bug, and have been trying to sell my PB12-Plus/2 with no luck. Do you think 1K is to high for a Piano Black with 12.2 drivers?

Thanks

What will you replace the gloss PB12+/2 with if you don't mind me asking?

What will you replace the gloss PB12+/2 with if you don't mind me asking?
Going to venture to the other side for a small trip with a JL F113

Anthem, your problem is you want local pickup. I might have bought it myself otherwise :)

Anthem, your problem is you want local pickup. I might have bought it myself otherwise :)
Others that have sold your SVS, how did you ship it and pack it?


Michael

Ron, bgilly...yeah my old sub never really played great below the 40hz range and i did gain from 40 and below w/ the PB10...and i gotta tell you it's a whole new experience. Only thing i have a null right around the the 50-70 range and it is pretty annoying but, i'm gonna try and place the sub nearfield about a foot from the back wall. Right now the sub is in a cabinet below the tv, in between the mains, on the left....and pretty much in the middle of the whole living area. Oh and where the tv and the whole cabinet (entertainment stand) is, it's in a cavity in the wall so the sub is pretty much in a corner. Again this is a great sub, and for a 10" and the size of the living area (all open) the bass kinda fill's the area especially when it gets down and dirty. As of now, i still gotta calibrate it and run more test tones. Let you guys know the results.

Others that have sold your SVS, how did you ship it and pack it?


Michael

I think it would be pretty hard to do without the original packaging.

Have you posted it on Audiogon?

Ron, bgilly...yeah my old sub never really played great below the 40hz range and i did gain from 40 and below w/ the PB10...and i gotta tell you it's a whole new experience. Only thing i have a null right around the the 50-70 range and it is pretty annoying but, i'm gonna try and place the sub nearfield about a foot from the back wall. Right now the sub is in a cabinet below the tv, in between the mains, on the left....and pretty much in the middle of the whole living area. Oh and where the tv and the whole cabinet (entertainment stand) is, it's in a cavity in the wall so the sub is pretty much in a corner. Again this is a great sub, and for a 10" and the size of the living area (all open) the bass kinda fill's the area especially when it gets down and dirty. As of now, i still gotta calibrate it and run more test tones. Let you guys know the results.

Try to download REW/Tru RTA software and connect the spl meter to your pc's soundcard. It will plot a FR response for you. Also try tweaking the subwoofer distance (phase) on your reciever. This gave me a noticeable improvement in sq with my twin PB10's. Goodluck....

Hiroyuki, yeah i should try looking into that....thanks. I ran some test tones from Real Traps....WOW, i'm impressed...i could imagine what a 12" could do in the living area. This PB10 gets down i did notice port noise tho at the 20 hz range but it does'nt really bother me (man this speaker was moving), too bad my meter has a dead batt. maybe later i'll see what kind of #'s this can do. Man i'm stoked i have this sub...(pretty sure you guys can tell...haha) made a good purchase. Hmm...now i'm thinking, one more...well see. Oh yeah...one more thing...as far as the sub placement in the cabinet as i described in the earlier posts, i'm using the 6 rubber feet's. Do you guys think if i raise the sub a bit higher (using the foam packing that came w/ the sub underneath it) will it sound better? Thanks....

Ron, bgilly...yeah my old sub never really played great below the 40hz range and i did gain from 40 and below w/ the PB10...and i gotta tell you it's a whole new experience. Only thing i have a null right around the the 50-70 range and it is pretty annoying but, i'm gonna try and place the sub nearfield about a foot from the back wall. Right now the sub is in a cabinet below the tv, in between the mains, on the left....and pretty much in the middle of the whole living area. Oh and where the tv and the whole cabinet (entertainment stand) is, it's in a cavity in the wall so the sub is pretty much in a corner. Again this is a great sub, and for a 10" and the size of the living area (all open) the bass kinda fill's the area especially when it gets down and dirty. As of now, i still gotta calibrate it and run more test tones. Let you guys know the results.



Nulls do suck...I have one right at 40hz which stinks because of how impactful that frequency is and how common it is during powerful bass scenes...

Hiroyuki, yeah i should try looking into that....thanks. I ran some test tones from Real Traps....WOW, i'm impressed...i could imagine what a 12" could do in the living area. This PB10 gets down i did notice port noise tho at the 20 hz range but it does'nt really bother me (man this speaker was moving), too bad my meter has a dead batt. maybe later i'll see what kind of #'s this can do. Man i'm stoked i have this sub...(pretty sure you guys can tell...haha) made a good purchase. Hmm...now i'm thinking, one more...well see. Oh yeah...one more thing...as far as the sub placement in the cabinet as i described in the earlier posts, i'm using the 6 rubber feet's. Do you guys think if i raise the sub a bit higher (using the foam packing that came w/ the sub underneath it) will it sound better? Thanks....

Funny you ask about the foams that came with the PB10. :D I've been using it since dec when I added the 2nd PB10 and it definetely make it sound tighter. You should give it a try. Make sure to cut a few inches so you can pop the grill off when you want to showcase the driver doing it's thing.

Hi,
What would be a better buy?. Get the PB12-Plus/2 or wait and buy the single new ultra 13.5?

Hi,
What would be a better buy?. Get the PB12-Plus/2 or wait and buy the single new ultra 13.5?
I think it would be hard for anybody to answer that question due to the ultra not even being released yet.

Hi,
What would be a better buy?. Get the PB12-Plus/2 or wait and buy the single new ultra 13.5?

Plus/2, get it now

PB13 ultra, get it in the late summer/fall....maybe :rolleyes:

you decide....

Hi all Just got my PB12 NSD today I'm quite happy with the looks and performance here are some pics:
:p



http://img140.imagevenue.com/loc517/th_33007_2007_005_122_517lo.jpg (http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=33007_2007_005_122_517lo.jpg)
http://img108.imagevenue.com/loc370/th_33012_2007_011_122_370lo.jpg (http://img108.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=33012_2007_011_122_370lo.jpg)
http://img103.imagevenue.com/loc485/th_33013_2007_013_122_485lo.jpg (http://img103.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=33013_2007_013_122_485lo.jpg)
http://img169.imagevenue.com/loc397/th_33014_2007_015_122_397lo.jpg (http://img169.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=33014_2007_015_122_397lo.jpg)
http://img124.imagevenue.com/loc395/th_33596_2007_024_122_395lo.jpg (http://img124.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=33596_2007_024_122_395lo.jpg)
http://img151.imagevenue.com/loc368/th_33015_2007_019_122_368lo.jpg (http://img151.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=33015_2007_019_122_368lo.jpg)

Nice, congrats on your purchase!

I think your next investment should be a TV! :)