How is the Current Draw on the PB-12 Plus and Plus/2?

I would have my Plasma, AVR, DVR and DVD on the same Circuit

Thanks

I bought an SVS sub a few years ago based on word of mouth. I also bought a HSU sub and directly compared the two. The Hsu was better sounding sub overall but if I hadn't compared I probably would have thought the SVS was great. That's the problem with high end subs and especially the problem with buying over the Internet. You can't directly compare the SVS or HSU to anything else directly as you can in a listening room.

If you do decide to try an SVS I would suggest you also bring the Paradigm sub home and directly compare the two. Paradigm subs are very tight and musical and may blend better with your Paradigm system. The SVS are somewhat boomy in comparison and I couldn't get them to mesh as well with my Divas as the Hsu did. Just an unbiased suggestion from one that doesn't own SVS. YMMV. :)I thought this was the SVS support thread, not the HSU marketing thread. Isn't there any place us low profile, unobtrusive SVS owners can communicate without the HSUzies causing contention and getting the thread closed? :p :eek:

I thought this was the SVS support thread, not the HSU marketing thread. Isn't there any place us low profile, unobtrusive SVS owners can communicate without the HSUzies causing contention and getting the thread closed? :p :eek:


Um he was answering an honest question from another poster who asked for his opinion. Its not like he is posting the way Spyboy does. I don't see marketing anywhere in his thread, just his opinion of his selection experience. Plus its been well noted on here about SVS strong bottom end and the general concensus that HSU can be at times more musical to some people. People love both brands.

Bill3508

I thought this was the SVS support thread, not the HSU marketing thread. Isn't there any place us low profile, unobtrusive SVS owners can communicate without the HSUzies causing contention and getting the thread closed? :p :eek:

SVS bashing does not get threads closed around here. Now, praising SVS, that can get a thread closed. :rolleyes:

I thought this was the SVS support thread, not the HSU marketing thread. Isn't there any place us low profile, unobtrusive SVS owners can communicate without the HSUzies causing contention and getting the thread closed? :p :eek:
I wasn't telling him to buy a Hsu I was telling him to COMPARE the SVS with the Paradigm. I personally think if he has a Paradigm system it only makes sense to try their subwoofer. Paradigm makes a very nice sounding sub that may blend with his Paradigm speakers better than an SVS might. Just a common sense suggestion from a subwoofer enthusiast with no particular allegiance to anyone. :)

Guys, get a sense of humor. Can't you tell sarcasm when you see it? I actually thought the HSUzies (pronounced suzies) remark would get a :) .

Guys, get a sense of humor. Can't you tell sarcasm when you see it? I actually thought the HSUzies (pronounced suzies) remark would get a :) .
Doh! I kinda thought you were being facetious but I wasn't sure. You SVS guys can be kinda touchy (kidding!). :rolleyes: :D

How is the Current Draw on the PB-12 Plus and Plus/2?

I would have my Plasma, AVR, DVR and DVD on the same Circuit

Thanks

Start Planning on a separate circuit for that sub...
I had everything you have, SVS PB12-Plus/2 and a Rotel 1095 amp.
All those items on the same living room circuit that had the lights and god knows what else on it..

When I cranked up the BEAST... The lights in my house started dimming like a dam disco hall... I proceeded to run 2 seperate 20amp circuits for my setup, I run the Sub on one, and all the rest of it on the other... Mind you this was certainly no easy task whatsoever, with my layout.. :(

Then My stupid A$$ went and bought another PB12-Plus and now my lights are dimming again... as I have it on the living room circuit... Grrrr... More electrical work, good thing Im handy. :)

Oh the things we do for our Habit/Hobby :D :rolleyes:

What does SVS say about running their subs into surge protectors/line conditioners?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bareyb
I bought an SVS sub a few years ago based on word of mouth. I also bought a HSU sub and directly compared the two. The Hsu was better sounding sub overall but if I hadn't compared I probably would have thought the SVS was great. That's the problem with high end subs and especially the problem with buying over the Internet. You can't directly compare the SVS or HSU to anything else directly as you can in a listening room.

If you do decide to try an SVS I would suggest you also bring the Paradigm sub home and directly compare the two. Paradigm subs are very tight and musical and may blend better with your Paradigm system. The SVS are somewhat boomy in comparison and I couldn't get them to mesh as well with my Divas as the Hsu did. Just an unbiased suggestion from one that doesn't own SVS. YMMV.
____________________________________________________________ ____

I don't think you can bash a post like this. It's the sole reason I participate in the forums. I am looking for comparisons by "real" people. This was a great post and I hope for more of them no matter which companies are involved.

That's my main problem. All these buyers become loyalists of what they own and have these projected egos. What happened to the guy who had no loyalty to brandname just the best product for him? That would be how I describe myself.

+1... with all the great reviews of HSU products, I know I would have been happy with them, but I wanted the elegant beauty of the SVS finish...

Real world reviews by real people....

I have long been curious about how SVS compares with HSU but, given the number of models each company sells, any comparison is utterly useless unless it identifies the specific models compared.

For example, a comparison of a $300 HSU box sub and a $300 SVS box sub would probably be very fair to both, as would a comparison of a $300 HSU box sub to a $300 SVS cylinder sub; but a comparison of a $300 HSU box sub to a $1,200 SVS cylinder sub would probably not be fair to the HSU.

Start Planning on a separate circuit for that sub...
I had everything you have, SVS PB12-Plus/2 and a Rotel 1095 amp.
All those items on the same living room circuit that had the lights and god knows what else on it..

When I cranked up the BEAST... The lights in my house started dimming like a dam disco hall... I proceeded to run 2 seperate 20amp circuits for my setup, I run the Sub on one, and all the rest of it on the other... Mind you this was certainly no easy task whatsoever, with my layout.. :(

Then My stupid A$$ went and bought another PB12-Plus and now my lights are dimming again... as I have it on the living room circuit... Grrrr... More electrical work, good thing Im handy. :)

Oh the things we do for our Habit/Hobby :D :rolleyes:


Thank for the info, I kinda thought that might happen. Do you think just the Plus would be fine at 525 watts.

and lastly, if you would play the plus alone and then the plus/2 alone what do you find to be the difference between the them.

+1... with all the great reviews of HSU products, I know I would have been happy with them, but I wanted the elegant beauty of the SVS finish...

Real world reviews by real people....
I just received the SVS PB12-Plus/2 in Piano gloss finish. I haven't hooked it up (tomorrow) but I can tell you it is Gorgeous. Anything this big in my family room better look beautiful. I looked at the HSU's and to me they looked kinda ordinary, not nearly as bad as the ED subs though. That turbo reminded me of a frankenstein monster.
Of course beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but I want my home theater to not only sound good but look classy, something to be proud of.

I just got received the SVS PB12-Plus/2 in Piano gloss finish.

Ahhhh you know that when you get help from this forum, your required to post pictures of your intallation right... !!!! Make it so...

Do you think just the Plus would be fine at 525 watts.

Kermie.... did you post before that your room dimensions were 2000 cu. ft. Am I right here...?
Obviously your not all that concerned about budget, If the Plus/2 doesn't bother you.

You could be just fine with a Plus, but a Plus/2 would slaughter in that size room... and you'll be less likely to have upgraditus... :)
If you are after a really fantastic setup, then maybe you might be interested in a Sub EQ.... A Velodyne SMS-1 (more $$ but Plug & Play) or If your a hands on guy, you can get a Behringer Feeback Destroyer to equalize your sub responce. BFD Forum & Info (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfd-rew-forum/)

Thank Warpdrive,

I went ahead and ordered the Plus/2 today. I had an friend who is an electrician come over and he said there are 2 different circuits in my basement. He is going to move an outlet closer from the 2nd circuit to the center of the room. This will allow me to be able to move from the front of the room and if I needed it could go all the way to the rear of the room. So I will have plenty of options for placement and it will generally be on a seperate power supply.

I agree, I will look into the BFD since it is less expensive. I think I can figure it out on a saturday or over a weekend. I know it will be worth it.

I liked all of the reviews of some other subs but I just can't pass up the look of the Piano Black - Bonus the other half likes it.

I will give some updates once I get it set up.

Thanks for your insight.

That Piano Black Finish is gorgeous. They need it in a cylinder.

How is the Current Draw on the PB-12 Plus and Plus/2?

I would have my Plasma, AVR, DVR and DVD on the same Circuit

Thanks

The Bash amps are very efficient. I have a PB+12/2, a Mackie pro amp [1200w] and 5 other power amps[225w each ch.] all running 4ohm loads, plus my 56" DLP tv, a receiver[pre-amp] 2 dvd players and a CD player, and a DVR/cablebox, all on the same curcuit, never noticed any light flickering at close to reference levels,, so I wouldn't worry.

Just got in my 20-29 pci today. I haven't tried to push it very loud yet, but i notice i had to turn the gain knob past the halfway point to get decent bass out of it (even when playing bass heavy music). Is this normal?

I also noticed that when I use my receivers test tone on the subwoofer that the cone actually rattles against the hardpoint in the woofer. Mind you this is playin at -30db on my receiver so i wasn't playing the test tone that loud. I also have the sub on a Auralex Gramma, on carpet, so im sure its not something else in my room rattling. Has there been problems with the woofers?

I also have the sub on a Auralex Gramma, on carpet, so im sure its not something else in my room rattling.

That most definitely does not mean that something else in your room is not rattling. In fact playing a frequency sweep through just about any sub will cause all sorts of stuff in your house to rattle, even if the sub were suspended in mid-air!

That most definitely does not mean that something else in your room is not rattling. In fact playing a frequency sweep through just about any sub will cause all sorts of stuff in your house to rattle, even if the sub were suspended in mid-air!

Well when something rattles, its not hard to localize where its coming from and its definitely coming from the bottom of the sub. WIth the subwoofer off, when I push the woofer up with my hands it makes a similar sound (woofer hitting something metal behind it). Also I was not playing it loud at all, about -30db below my receiver's reference level. My receiver doesn't do a frequency sweep for its test tones, it lets out a single audible tone like around 50hz.

Well when something rattles, its not hard to localize where its coming from and its definitely coming from the bottom of the sub. WIth the subwoofer off, when I push the woofer up with my hands it makes a similar sound. Also I was not playing it loud at all, about -30db below my receiver's reference level. My receiver doesn't do a frequency sweep for its test tones, it lets out a single audible tone like around 50hz.

I wasn't trying to say that the sound couldn't be coming from your woofer, just that it was possible something else could be rattling.

It does sound like there could be something wrong with the sub. I'd recommend emailing SVS, I'm sure they will be very attentive to your issue.

I wasn't trying to say that the sound couldn't be coming from your woofer, just that it was possible something else could be rattling.

It does sound like there could be something wrong with the sub. I'd recommend emailing SVS, I'm sure they will be very attentive to your issue.

Oh alrite. Well I emailed SVS tech support and they said it must have been a blown driver that was damaged during shipping. They are shipping me a new woofer today w/ return shipping label for the damaged one. Pretty fast response; so far, I am impressed with the service.

I wasn't telling him to buy a Hsu I was telling him to COMPARE the SVS with the Paradigm. I personally think if he has a Paradigm system it only makes sense to try their subwoofer. Paradigm makes a very nice sounding sub that may blend with his Paradigm speakers better than an SVS might. Just a common sense suggestion from a subwoofer enthusiast with no particular allegiance to anyone. :)
I appreciate your input, its exactly the kind of opinion I need to make an informed decision.

I appreciate your input, its exactly the kind of opinion I need to make an informed decision.


I have a paradigm system, and the svs works great with my system... I just need to get a new receiver

I have a paradigm system, and the svs works great with my system... I just need to get a new receiver

what Paradigms do you have?

what Paradigms do you have?

I am running millenia

200's for the fronts and a 20' for the rears and center.

I have a paradigm system, and the svs works great with my system... I just need to get a new receiver
I'm still leaning toward an SVS.

I'm still leaning toward an SVS.


Quit leaning and get on it... !!!!!!!!

Make sure you get a big one... !!!!

Quit leaning and get on it... !!!!!!!!

Make sure you get a big one... !!!!
Is the PB12+ big enough?

Is the PB12+ big enough?
theres a pb12 plus/2 in b stock.
https://svsound.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=12

I received my PB12/2 in Piano Gloss Black last week. I set it up, per wifeys directions next to the sofa.

My Daughter came over today for my wife's birthday. She seen it and couldn't believe I would buy such a beautiful cube end table (I am not into furniture).

I thought about it for and then I blundered out, No it is really a Subwoofer (stupid Hal).
Then she commented "that figures, my two son's want huge speakers in their cars and you want them in the house"

Go figure. Some women just don't understand the important stuff in life.

Ed Mullen (Great Guy) from SVS sent me a detailed email on how to set up my sub.
Being the perfectionist he is it is very detailed and a bit intimidating to a novice like me.
He recommended a nch.com website to get the tone generator. I did and it looks like you have to save an individual file for each frequency.

Does anyone know where I can get a free wav DL that has all these required freqs and any shortcuts on how to set phase and distance?

I consider PEQ settings to be the advanced course.

try this

http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

Hello all I am thinking of upgrading my sb12+ to a PB12 Plus Or even a PB12plus/2
If anyone has one in cherry or rosewood for sale let me know
Thanks

There is a Plus/2 in the Market Place... Cherry....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=850824
great sub... :)

PB10-NSD owners,how do you like this sub? I just purchased some new V5 Paradigm Monitors.I live in an apartment and I am definately looking into buying this sub to go along with my new speakers. I use my system for a little of everything,movies,music,and videogaming. Hope this will be a good match for my new speakers.

PB10-NSD owners,how do you like this sub?
This sub speaks for itself. If you do a quick search, I'm sure you will find plenty of reviews.(99.9% are positive ;) )

At its price point, it is tough to beat.

Its getting easier to beat though according to craigsub who just rated the eD a2-300 the same. Price for it the a2-300 is 350$ not including shipping.

I'm still going to keep my order, only because I think the SVS looks better and because eD takes forever to ship it seems. That and I bought a b-stock for $325. If I'd have paid full price, I'd have probably changed my order by now.

38 yr old engineer from Northern Virginia here. Read almost this entire thread last night and appears you guy love your SVS's. I have (all new everything) 60" Sony XBR2, Def Tech 7002's, BP2X's, CLR2500, and Pioneer Elite 82TXS, and the SVS sub, initial (not final) placement:

http://www.silvren.com/hometheatreavs/

Everything looks and sounds great, but being from the hi-end car world, I like my thump a little....thumpier. So today I pulled the trigger on the PB-12-NSD/2, it 'feels' to me like it would match and augment my existing rig.

Anyone have that particular unit? Any thoughts?

J

Not to discount the NSD/2, but I probably would have spent the extra $400 to get the +/2 in gloss black (overstock price). Or I would be more patience and preorder the new U13 in gloss. I have the +/2 in poly, but I wasn't putting it in an environment with other gorgeous gloss black speakers like you have.

You do realize just how BIG the NSD/2 is, don't you?

Not to discount the NSD/2, but I probably would have spent the extra $400 to get the +/2 in gloss black (overstock price). Or I would be more patience and preorder the new U13 in gloss. I have the +/2 in poly, but I wasn't putting it in an environment with other gorgeous gloss black speakers like you have.

Yea, we have multiple pets, who sleep on and touch everything (I declawed the cat so he can't tear into speaker drivers, hehe), and I was planning on using this to hold up some pictures or a lamp or something (if it breaks bulbs or anything else so be it *grin*), so the poly finish is just fine. The high gloss black is more of a pain to be honest. I get finger prints on the 7002's everytime I touch them.

It's big, but I have a perfect spot along a wall for it. I may even corner load it.

J

Jarin,

How large, in cubic feet, is the space your system is in (including adjoining areas with large openings)? When I hear someone wants "car bass" in their home theater, my knee-jerk reaction is to recommend a larger sub for them. That said, I don't know for certain what you mean by "high end" car audio -- accurate, low distortion reproduction, or LOUD (distortion be damned). If it is the latter, and your space is large, I would also urge you to look at the PB12-Plus/2.

-Robb

Jarin,

How large, in cubic feet, is the space your system is in (including adjoining areas with large openings)? When I hear someone wants "car bass" in their home theater, my knee-jerk reaction is to recommend a larger sub for them. That said, I don't know for certain what you mean by "high end" car audio -- accurate, low distortion reproduction, or LOUD (distortion be damned). If it is the latter, and your space is large, I would also urge you to look at the PB12-Plus/2.

-Robb

It's one entire floor of a townhouse, very open, no doors, the room itself is ~4000, the measured space is 6240^3 including adjoins. Back in the car days I was never into SPL competitions, and I won't name namebrands I was into, wrong forum for that, but I had a good 12 or 13 yr run at it in almost as many cars.

I'm not looking for chest-thumping bass that you can feel in your hair, I had my fill of that with 1000WRMS mono-bridged amps going into 15" woofs in a Honda Prelude for example, I'm just looking for more of a natural extension to what the 7002's will do with their assigned 80hz+ freqs. And, honestly, the PB12-Plus/2 is out of my budget for this particular component.

J

It's one entire floor of a townhouse, very open, no doors, the room itself is ~4000, the measured space is 6240^3 including adjoins. Back in the car days I was never into SPL competitions, and I won't name namebrands I was into, wrong forum for that, but I had a good 12 or 13 yr run at it in almost as many cars.

I'm not looking for chest-thumping bass that you can feel in your hair, I had my fill of that with 1000WRMS mono-bridged amps going into 15" woofs in a Honda Prelude for example, I'm just looking for more of a natural extension to what the 7002's will do with their assigned 80hz+ freqs. And, honestly, the PB12-Plus/2 is out of my budget for this particular component.

J

In my opinion, you will be much more satisfied just saving for the Plus/2 than getting a single right away.

In my opinion, you will be much more satisfied just saving for the Plus/2 than getting a single right away.

Unless I'm badly mistaken, the PB-12-NSD/2 is a dual 12", correct? At least the pictures show it to be such...

(Assuming by single you mean single driver...)

J

The NSD/2 is a dual 12", 600 Watts. The poly is a nice, but dull, textured finish. SVS has a nice job done with this coating. No seams on all rounded corners. I've had mine for over a year and don't do anything but dust is once in awhile. Do not use paper towels or white terry cloth. It is a tough finish as well.
I don't know how well it will fill that space. I have a +/2 in an 8,800cf space and it does fine. I still have to place it near field to get the tactile feel I want. Just too much space to place it too far away.

Yes, it's a dual :)

Jarin, I think you selected the best SVS model for your large room within your budget. Dual PB12-NSD's would have been my choice for $300 more, but I'm a strong proponent of one-on-each-side placement (or two-on-each-side!) :) and you would not have gained much in SPL over the /2. Put the /2 in your 'best' front corner, add a $100 Behringer BFD to even out your room bass response, (I assume you already have an RS meter, required -- our ears don't work accurately enough in the low bass), and you'll be set.

Edit: Well, as Randy said above -- budget contraints aside, I'd want 4 12's or two 15's (or 13.5's) :) in that much space.

Jarin,

I have a room a bit larger then what you have... I originally put a Plus/2 in my 8200+^3 room and I thought it was great..... really had some punch, but after adding a single Plus into the room I realized the need for Dual subs in a room... with the addition of a SMS-1 I am in heaven...

2 things here... You can always add a single NSD sub to your NSD/2 in your room with ease... they will blend fantastically placed in the same tune...
If your quick... you can always change your order to a plus/2... SVS is very accommodating.

They will easily suggest a Plus/2 for that room size... if not dual Plus's

Either way I am positive you will totally enjoy your SVS !!!

Warp

Unless I'm badly mistaken, the PB-12-NSD/2 is a dual 12", correct? At least the pictures show it to be such...

(Assuming by single you mean single driver...)

J

Yes, it is a dual 12". Sorry about not being clear enough, meant single driver.

Thanks guys for the feedback. I'll test things out with the PB-12-NSD/2 for a bit, and let you know how it works out.

J

I had a damaged NSD woofer (PCi 20-39) from shipping (the basket that holds the spider became detached completely from the metal frame). It still sorta worked, but makes a clanking noise at moderate levels. I received a new woofer from SVS and installed it with no problems

However, I find that i have to turn the volume on the subwoofer past the halfway mark for it to sound right to my ears during music and music dvds. I currently have the woofer set at the halfway mark with the receiver set at +6db for the subwoofer. I noticed this with both the broken woofer as well as the replacement one. I hope there is nothing wrong with the amp itself.

So my question is: for SVS PCi owners (particularly 20-39 owners). what volume/gain level do you have it set at? and also what subwoofer levels are you using on the receiver?

You need to get an SPL meter and dial in your sub using either RECIEVER Test tones or Test tones burnt onto a CD.

MonkeyGod, how big is your room? Where is the sub placed, and how far away from it are you sitting?

If there is anywhere you can place the sub near where you sit that will help. In addition to getting a long enough interconnect, you'll have to make sure you adjust the distance settings in your receiver setup menu and tweak the sub's phase control to 'time' the bass with your mains. Nearfield sub placements often benefit from lowering the x-o to your sub to 60 Hz if that's possible in your system.

My 20-39 is set at noon,no problems.



My Theater Equipment
Panasonic TH-42PX60U Plasma
Scientific Atlanta Explorer 4200 HD cablebox
Denon AVR-3300 receiver Pre/pro
Outlaw 7125 7 CH Power Amplifier
OPPO OPDV971H DVD PLAYER
JVC HR-D725U Hifi vcr
JVC HR-S3500U Hifi vcr
Sony SLV-N88 Hifi vcr
LSI9 ( Mains )
LSI Center
PSB Ambient 2 Dipoles
SVS 20-39 pci subwoofer

MonkeyGod, how big is your room? Where is the sub placed, and how far away from it are you sitting?

If there is anywhere you can place the sub near where you sit that will help. In addition to getting a long enough interconnect, you'll have to make sure you adjust the distance settings in your receiver setup menu and tweak the sub's phase control to 'time' the bass with your mains. Nearfield sub placements often benefit from lowering the x-o to your sub to 60 Hz if that's possible in your system.

Its up against the rear corner of my room (only about 6-8 inches away from each wall) which is only 10x10ft, Im sitting about 2-3 ft away from it which is my regular sitting position. Even though my room is small i still have to turn volume to noon position and add subwoofer level to +6db on my receiver

Its up against the rear corner of my room (only about 6-8 inches away from each wall) which is only 10x10ft, Im sitting about 2-3 ft away from it which is my regular sitting position. Even though my room is small i still have to turn volume to noon position and add subwoofer level to +6db on my receiver
MonkeyGoD If I may make some suggestions myself:

Try pushing the SVS more into that corner using 1" increments. They are small but make huge differences and will load the room more. I suggest the 80Hz x-over setting over the 60Hz setting.

If you still need to have the gain where it is now and you are happy with the DD sound simply use the subwoofer volume control (to lower)on the pre-pro/receiver for your ideal balanced sound as opposed to lowering the SVS gain. I see no problem whatsoever with your gain setting if you aren't having sub stress. You may wish to chart your room nodes w/ a ratshack spl meter and try to tame them.

all the best,
Bailman

MonkeyGoD If I may make some suggestions myself:

Try pushing the SVS more into that corner using 1" increments. They are small but make huge differences and will load the room more. I suggest the 80Hz x-over setting over the 60Hz setting.

If you still need to have the gain where it is now and you are happy with the DD sound simply use the subwoofer volume control (to lower)on the pre-pro/receiver for your ideal balanced sound as opposed to lowering the SVS gain. I see no problem whatsoever with your gain setting if you aren't having sub stress. You may wish to chart your room nodes w/ a ratshack spl meter and try to tame them.

all the best,
Bailman

Thanks much for the suggestions.

Unfortunately, I have an old Onkyo 474 receiver (one of the first dolby digital receivers), so I can't specifically adjust my crossover, only Large or Small and i don't know what crossover points those are. I have PSB Image T65 towers for my mains, so i tend to leave it in the 'Large' setting on the receiver.

However, I will try your suggestion of placing the subwoofer a bit closer to the walls. I haven't pushed the subwoofer very much, so it hasnt felt stressed at all. I am perfectly happy at its output at the setting i have it at right now(except for inherent room modes, but thats no fault of the sub). I have a Radishack SPL meter and am learning to use REW. I may invest in a Behringer FD in the near future.

I just got a little worried because Im used to other subwoofers where I don't have to turn the knob so much to get the volume i want ( halfway mark). I just wanted to be sure that this is the norm with the PCi models so that I know that there is nothing wrong with mine; that's all.

Thanks much for the suggestions.

Unfortunately, I have an old Onkyo 474 receiver (one of the first dolby digital receivers), so I can't specifically adjust my crossover, only Large or Small and i don't know what crossover points those are. I have PSB Image T65 towers for my mains, so i tend to leave it in the 'Large' setting on the receiver.

However, I will try your suggestion of placing the subwoofer a bit closer to the walls. I haven't pushed the subwoofer very much, so it hasnt felt stressed at all. I am perfectly happy at its output at the setting i have it at right now(except for inherent room modes, but thats no fault of the sub). I have a Radishack SPL meter and am learning to use REW. I may invest in a Behringer FD in the near future.

I just got a little worried because Im used to other subwoofers where I don't have to turn the knob so much to get the volume i want ( halfway mark). I just wanted to be sure that this is the norm with the PCi models so that I know that there is nothing wrong with mine; that's all.

MonkeyGoD your receiver has basic bass management which is perfectly fine for 99.01% of us. :D Does the Onkyo have a bass/LFE setting for Both?

If it does choose this setting in your prepro and turn that sub gain way down; start fresh w/ the svs . I can see why you need the gain as you do if you're running speakers @ large. If you've experimented with the prepro settings and you prefer using your mains for upper bass its very understandable.

I will end with adding to my suggestions in the previous post. You may/should do 1" increments in either direction... up away from the corner along the side wall as well as also incrementals along the back wall away from the side wall. It is sometimes very astounding the difference that can be made.

all the best,
bailman

...Does the Onkyo have a bass/LFE setting for Both?

If it does choose this setting in your prepro and turn that sub gain way down; start fresh w/ the svs . I can see why you need the gain as you do if you're running speakers @ large. If you've experimented with the prepro settings and you prefer using your mains for upper bass its very understandable...
Just be sure you understand what you are getting when you do this.

The Large/Small settings do not affect the LFE. They only affect the lows in the stereo channels. Large keeps them in the original channel, Small routes them (below the crossover) to the sub, and "Both" sends the same signal to both the sub and the mains. In all cases the LFE will go to the sub, not the mains.

As a result, you will get inconsistent results depending upon the source if you don't set your mains to small, which is why that is the setting that is usually recommended, no matter how well the mains play bass. "Both" is the most problematic setting. Some people have great success with it, but others find it creates phase issues and/or boomy response.

I may not understand what you are doing, MonkeyGoD, but from what you've said I'd guess the reason you are getting so little response from your sub on music is that your mains are set to Large and you are playing stereo CDs (no LFE). In that case, no signal is being directed to your sub (a little may leak through). The same would apply to DVD's that don't have an LFE track (many older ones do not).

Try setting the mains to small and see if you still have a problem with your sub playing music.

Was able to pick up my PB-12-NSD/2 today instead of waiting another week for freight delivery. Yep, she's big and heavy. Got my trusty RS SPL meter ready. I'm going to corner load it and fire it up tonight and try some basic tuning, etc. Looks like it should fit the bill. With all speakers set to small with the Pioneer 72TXS and the Def Tech 7002's I think I'm going to drop my x-over from 80 to 60hz initially and set the sub to 20hz tune and see how that starts initially.

Fun. :-)

J

I think I'm going to drop my x-over from 80 to 60hz initially and set the sub to 20hz tune and see how that starts initially.
J

Congrats on the new addition to your place there Jarin...

Depending on your room, I thought with my big speakers Paradigm Studio 100's, that x-over at 60hz would be better also, but when I got my Velodyne SMS-1 I found out that there were cancellation problems with that x-over point.
Which made it difficult to equalize my subs in my room. 80hz x-over worked the best for me.

Until I saw what the real time room sweep, I wouldn't have known.
After Eq'ing my Plus/2 & Plus in my room... I found I have to turn the bass down a touch because its so amazingly powerful, and impactful...

Just a heads up...

Good luck with your testing.... :)

Warp

Congrats on the new addition to your place there Jarin...

Depending on your room, I thought with my big speakers Paradigm Studio 100's, that x-over at 60hz would be better also, but when I got my Velodyne SMS-1 I found out that there were cancellation problems with that x-over point.
Which made it difficult to equalize my subs in my room. 80hz x-over worked the best for me.

Until I saw what the real time room sweep, I wouldn't have known.
After Eq'ing my Plus/2 & Plus in my room... I found I have to turn the bass down a touch because its so amazingly powerful, and impactful...

Just a heads up...

Good luck with your testing.... :)

Warp

Yea, I moved it back up to 80. This SMS really puts out the SPL. Initial tests done, now trying out some DVDs. My poor neighbors.

J

Hello all , so I think I am NOT going to upgrade my SB12+ BUT I will add a second one and run 2 SB12+
SO if anyone is looking to sell a SB12+in rosewood please let me know
Thanks

SVS Owners: At what level of volume to you have your subs set at using your volume on the sub. lastly how "hot" over/under your other speaker do you have them set at.

just trying to get an idea of what others do for HT.

I get a little nervous if the subs can handle going any more then half the volume using the sub volume knob.

thanks

SVS Owners: At what level of volume to you have your subs set at using your volume on the sub. lastly how "hot" over/under your other speaker do you have them set at.

just trying to get an idea of what others do for HT.

I get a little nervous if the subs can handle going any more then half the volume using the sub volume knob.

thanks


You know thats funny that you should ask this because i asked the exact same questions in the last page. I too was worried to about this (having to set the volume so high on the SVS) and was asking for other peoples consensus.

BTW, I have my SVS 20-39PCi at the halfway point and the receiver at +6db for the subwoofer and 0db for all other channels. These settings have not been calibrated. I will do a quick run through on my SPL meter over the weekend and report back.

My Plus/2 and my Plus, are both at about the 10:00 area.

Now depending on your receiver, you should be able set the volume of the sub channel just like when you are leveling your speakers with a SPL meter. I usually set it about 2 db hot at that point and have it around 0db, which still allow me to turn it hotter with the receiver remote... If you have your settings much like I have described, and your volume is at 12:00 then there should be nothing wrong with your settings... remember that my Plus/2 and my Plus are bigger amps as well.

Now I have a SMS-1 and there is a volume on that for adjustment so I don't use my receiver remote for raising volume of the sub... grrrr way to many remotes.

Thanks guys. I have a Pio 84.

I am not use to this much bass so if I go past 12:00 on the sub volume (which I like by the way) I just don't want to put too much strain on the drivers. I am sure they wouldn't have that large of amp and a volume knob that can go to 4-5 o'clock if it couldn't handle it but I want to be careful.

Hi KERMIE,

It's been said before, but it's worth repeating.... Buy an SPL meter and use that to calibrate the subwoofer level.

Really.


Tim

Some new pics. (I haven't put the sub in the corner yet, still moving furniture around).

http://www.silvren.com/hometheatreavs/

J

I have my 25-31pci at just little under 11 o'clock and -4.5db on the receiver calibrated to 85db using avia.

Just received my PB10-NSD today. And its a lot bigger in person than the dimensions lead you to believe. At least it looks a lot bigger lol. Any pic requests? I'm sure you guys have seen it all, just thought I"d ask. Going to spend all day tomorrow searching for the best placement option.

Just received my PB10-NSD today. And its a lot bigger in person than the dimensions lead you to believe. At least it looks a lot bigger lol. Any pic requests? I'm sure you guys have seen it all, just thought I"d ask. Going to spend all day tomorrow searching for the best placement option.

we always want pics :) :D

we always want pics :) :D


Anything in particular, or just how it makes my small listening area really tiny lol.

Anything in particular, or just how it makes my small listening area really tiny lol.

naked women standing next to it, but other than that ... nothing special, just pics

naked women standing next to it, but other than that ... nothing special, just pics

LOL. Jessica Biel if you can swing it.

On a more serious note - anyone know of any websites with free test tones? I see the Rives disc2 out there and the Avia2 DVD.

J

Sorry for the bad pics, didn't want to overexpose the SVS with my flash. Here is my new (b-stock) PB10-NSD in white next to my old Onkyo HTIB sub.:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/bhepper/IMG_2570.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/bhepper/IMG_2566.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/bhepper/IMG_2565.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/bhepper/IMG_2569.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/bhepper/IMG_2568.jpg

cool pics, guess the "sig other" made you put the flowers/plant on top of it :D :rolleyes:

Naw, just didn't know where else to put it. Its one of those beta plants. You know, Beta's (fish). Anyway, if you look close enough at the face of the Onkyo, even though they are bad pictures, you can see what my daughter contributed to the pictures. I made a pledge to myself to keep the white SVS white lol.

Has anyone used the R-DES by AV123 to eq their subs? Just curious...

Jeff

Thats a crazy lookin rug. It looks as if it was made out of pure lint.

I wouldn't leave that plant there if you want it in one piece!!

Is there water in that vase? It will fall over!

I wouldn't leave that plant there if you want it in one piece!!

Is there water in that vase? It will fall over!
I was thinking the same thing. The poor Betta (not beta :p ) will not be happy!

On a more serious note - anyone know of any websites with free test tones? I see the Rives disc2 out there and the Avia2 DVD.

Realm of Excusion has some great sweeps:
http://www.realmofexcursion.com/ click on 'Downloads'
Real Traps has tones at 1 Hz intervals:
http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

Realm of Excusion has some great sweeps:
http://www.realmofexcursion.com/ click on 'Downloads'
Real Traps has tones at 1 Hz intervals:
http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

Best off with the realtraps, but if you use the Realm of Excursion site.. just be careful of running sinewaves to low and too long... Damage may ensue...

Many a sine wave have toppled a great sub...

Warp

The NCH Tone Generator is totally adjustable and won't stress the woofer with burst tones...google it and download.

Thanks for that info Ron... God knows the unsuspecting can really muck up a good sub...

I wouldn't leave that plant there if you want it in one piece!!

Is there water in that vase? It will fall over!


Shockingly, it doesn't even vibrate. The box is built really well to that effect :)

I was thinking the same thing. The poor Betta (not beta :p ) will not be happy!How do you know fish don't enjoy bass. After all, they did name one of their own after it as in Large Mouth. :)

How do you know fish don't enjoy bass. After all, they did name one of their own after it. :)

Ransac,

Do you mind if I ask what your affiliation w/ SVS is?
I was flipping through your posts and they are all SVS. You have advice on virtually every model out there.

Do you sell SVS, in that line of thought does SVS have dealers or resellers in the US or anywhere else? I know about Canada and some parts of Europe.

Thomas, to my knowlege SVS has only 'factory direct' sales in the United States. To avoid posting any marketing links here, I'll refer you to the SVS site for the complete list of their international distributors.

The NCH Tone Generator is totally adjustable and won't stress the woofer with burst tones...google it and download.

Thanks for the tip, Ron -- looks like NCH has some other nifty stuff like Golden Record, a vinyl-to-CD package.

Room EQ Wizard, a free download, also includes a tone generator.

Thanks, Warpdrive, for the warning about use of sine waves. 20 seconds of signal max, followed by 40 seconds of cooldown, is a typical recommendation.
Common sense, keep the volume reasonable, and be especially careful as you drop below 25Hz.

Ransac,

Do you mind if I ask what your affiliation w/ SVS is? None. Just a very satisfied customer.

I was flipping through your posts and they are all SVS. You have advice on virtually every model out there.Keep reading. You will find that is not true. I normally try to stay on topic and try to give pratical advice. If someone asks about SVS, I talk SVS. If they ask about anything but SVS, I either don't respond or I talk about the products they ask about. I have auditioned many subs, not hundreds, and I stay within my budget. My suggestions also try to stay in the OPs budget when possible. I have also read thousands of posts. I will make suggestions based on either direct experience or I will try to save people a lot of reading by commenting on what I have learned from my reading. I don't usually make recommendations, I make suggestions and point the OP to other information. The only time I comment on items beyond my means was when RMK! was nice enough to ask me to come to his house and blind test a Fathom 113 vs a DD18. My comments are in a thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=770381).

does SVS have dealers or resellers in the US or anywhere else?In the US, you can only buy directly from SVS. Outside the US, they use distributor networks.

Ransac,

Do you mind if I ask what your affiliation w/ SVS is?
I was flipping through your posts and they are all SVS. You have advice on virtually every model out there.

Do you sell SVS, in that line of thought does SVS have dealers or resellers in the US or anywhere else? I know about Canada and some parts of Europe.I read this post last night and it p*ssed me off. I don't read all your posts, but your pseudo-Ralph Naderism is getting old...Marketing Shield On should be changed to Hey I'm a Troll. I suspect you feel you are contributing by exposing, in your mind, unethical behavior. I'd recommend you limit your posting to things you know about, in a positive manner, rather than snide remarks towards respected members (at least I respect him ;) ).

Thanks, Ron, but I wasn't offended by Thomas' remark. I found it interesting he reads a lot of my posts. Obviously he hasn't read them all, but I wouldn't want to be responsible for his untimely boredom. It was a fair question about SVS and their distribution channels.

As for the "advice on every model", assuming he meant every SVS model, he must be confusing me with Brad (bgillyjcu). :)

Ransac,
I don't normally "stalk" your posts :) , but I did read a bunch since you had commented in most of the SVS threads I had been reading. I was coming to the conclusion that you had become the answer guy/authority on this. I am glad that my ? did not make your blood pressure go out of control. Having owned a sub, I still keep track of their line, b/c it's so varied that I feel there may be something better or something soon that will be better than my current sub.
The reason I ask if SVS has dealers is b/c
1. They have a lot of the same people comment in their threads and they have dealers in other countries. Why is the US forbidden?
2. I think they will have to add dealers in the next couple of years, b/c their growth will hit a valley w/o more or easier demoing. They may go like Dell and open SVS stores who knows.

How do you know fish don't enjoy bass. After all, they did name one of their own after it as in Large Mouth. :) :D :D Well, mine don't. They dive for cover if I rattle their "cage." Darla would send them into shock, I fear.

Actually, I was envisioning the poor betta flopping on the floor when the vase/bowl bounced off the sub. :eek:

I was coming to the conclusion that you had become the answer guy/authority on this.
Not an authority. Just a lonely old guy with too much free time.
I am glad that my ? did not make your blood pressure go out of control.
Not usually my style, but there are some here that can get to me.

The reason I ask if SVS has dealers is b/c
1. They have a lot of the same people comment in their threads and they have dealers in other countries. Why is the US forbidden?
I thought I would quit after I got help here in selecting my sub, but this forum becomes addictive. I lurk in some other forums, but I try to participate in this one.
Ron would have to answer why they don't do ID in other countries. I believe they do ship direct to some, but the shipping and import fees are usually too high. Plus I think they only speak English, which is why they don't deal with Canadian customers directly. :)
2. I think they will have to add dealers in the next couple of years, b/c their growth will hit a valley w/o more or easier demoing. They may go like Dell and open SVS stores who knows.
If they become too successful, they will probably put assembly plants in some of the more high volume countries to avoid duties. Other than that, all they have to do is increase production capacity in the US. But it really isn't that simple. And going into retail hasn't done much good for Dell.
There's good and bad to ID or BM retailers. A company just has to choose the distribution model that works best for them. SVS, HSU, ACI, AV123 all want to keep the cost to the consumer as low as possible. To do that, they have to cut out the middle man. But you also have to find ways to capture and keep consumer interest. Since you aren't in their line of sight all the time, you have to have a good marketing campaign, be very consumer friendly (to get return customers), and rely heavily on word-of-mouth. That is where forums like this play right into this strategy.

Hey all, just got our PB10-NSD on Friday and so far the back corner seems to be the best as far as overall response. There is no EQ so this is just as good as it will get for now.

This first picture is taken with my RS meter set to 80 on the dial:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/bhepper/backcornerofroomnoeq.jpg

The second one is taken with my RS meter set to 70. I like this one the best but what do you all think?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/bhepper/backcornerofroomnoeqrsmeter70.jpg

I'm not sure what setting the meter to differnet things means and why the graphs are so different, but this is a lot better than what I was getting before. The peak of #@40 is still there, but the dropoff to 60 thereafter is gone!

If you can tame the peak at 43 and correct whatever is sucking out the bass at 33 and 23, this would look great. I assume this is sub and speakers, so I would raise the Xover to 90 to get better blending at 80. Other than that, it looks good.

If you can tame the peak at 43 and correct whatever is sucking out the bass at 33 and 23, this would look great. I assume this is sub and speakers, so I would raise the Xover to 90 to get better blending at 80. Other than that, it looks good.

No, this is subwoofer only connected directly to the subwoofer bypassing my AVR. When I get my speakers tomorrow I will run a sweep with them to see how they blend best and will try a different phase setting to see about taming some more of those dips and peak.

Not an authority. Just a lonely old guy with too much free time.

Say, shouldn't you be packing? :p

Can anyone describe what the difference is between the new NSD driver and the old one? Is the new one that much better? If both are for sell used. How much less would someone have to sell the old sub for to make it worth it? 80%, 70%?

Can anyone describe what the difference is between the new NSD driver and the old one? Is the new one that much better? If both are for sell used. How much less would someone have to sell the old sub for to make it worth it? 80%, 70%?

No difference whatsoever between the old isd driver. SVS states both perform identically.

No difference whatsoever between the old isd driver. SVS states both perform identically. IIRC, that applies to the 10" version, not the 12", which I believe is improved.

IIRC, that applies to the 10" version, not the 12", which I believe is improved.

Yeah, I was talking about the 10' driver sorry. The 12' nsd definitely an improvement to the 10' nsd driver.

Can anyone describe what the difference is between the new NSD driver and the old one? Is the new one that much better? If both are for sell used. How much less would someone have to sell the old sub for to make it worth it? 80%, 70%?

The new built-in-house 12" NSD driver replaced the previous 12" ISD driver in Q2 2006. Performance was improved to the point that the 12" NSD driver is considered equivalent to the previous version (12.2) of the Plus driver! Folks who run their subs at higher volumes will notice the most significant performance increase.

The pre-order upgrade cost was $79, the current upgrade cost is $129. That is a heck of a good deal -- and SVS lets you keep the old driver. As far as the effect on used sub pricing, ISD driver vs NSD driver, a look through recent transactions on Audiogon and Ebay will tell you more about the market than I can :) .

The 10" NSD driver used in the PB10 is considered identical performancewise with the ISD driver it replaced, so SVS offered no upgrade program for it. In fact, IIRC, SVS started to slipstream 10" NSD drivers into PB10s in late 2005 without at first changing the labels on the sub that said 'ISD' (to use up the labels) so there are PB10's out there that say ISD that actually have the NSD driver. . .but, since there's no difference in performance on the 10" drivers, it doesn't matter :)

The new built-in-house 12" NSD driver replaced the previous 12" ISD driver in Q2 2006. Performance was improved to the point that the 12" NSD driver is considered equivalent to the previous version (12.2) of the Plus driver! Folks who run their subs at higher volumes will notice the most significant performance increase.

The pre-order upgrade cost was $79, the current upgrade cost is $129. That is a heck of a good deal -- and SVS lets you keep the old driver. As far as the effect on used sub pricing, ISD driver vs NSD driver, a look through recent transactions on Audiogon and Ebay will tell you more about the market than I can :) .

The 10" NSD driver used in the PB10 is considered identical performancewise with the ISD driver it replaced, so SVS offered no upgrade program for it. In fact, IIRC, SVS started to slipstream 10" NSD drivers into PB10s in late 2005 without at first changing the labels on the sub that said 'ISD' (to use up the labels) so there are PB10's out there that say ISD that actually have the NSD driver. . .but, since there's no difference in performance on the 10" drivers, it doesn't matter :)

I got a B stock PB10 NSD and on the box itself says ISD but it has the NSD driver. I called Ron and was like, I think I have the ISD and he assured me that no it was the NSD driver. I guess not that much of a difference anyway.

I got a B stock PB10 NSD and on the box itself says ISD but it has the NSD driver. I called Ron and was like, I think I have the ISD and he assured me that no it was the NSD driver. I guess not that much of a difference anyway.
The fact that SVS was unable (at least within reasonable cost) to improve on the performance of the original 10" driver should tell you something -- it's a pretty darn good 10" driver! :)

agreed

When did SVS improve the woofers in the PB2/ plus 2? And what did they improve?

Hello all. I'm trying to convince my wife that I can mount the SBS-01 on the wall (she wants something smaller, less intrusive), but I can't seem to find any photos of them mounted on walls. I've searched through the forum, but maybe not searching correctly. So if any of you have a photo or can point me to one, it would be a big help. Thanks!

Hello all. I'm trying to convince my wife that I can mount the SBS-01 on the wall (she wants something smaller, less intrusive), but I can't seem to find any photos of them mounted on walls. I've searched through the forum, but maybe not searching correctly. So if any of you have a photo or can point me to one, it would be a big help. Thanks!I think there were some early adopters photos posted...check the SBS 01 thread on Speakers or just search the archives for SVS speakers.

When did SVS improve the woofers in the PB2/ plus 2? And what did they improve?
Its been a while but I think this is the link with the info

http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-plus12_3woofer2.cfm

Hello all. I'm trying to convince my wife that I can mount the SBS-01 on the wall (she wants something smaller, less intrusive), but I can't seem to find any photos of them mounted on walls. I've searched through the forum, but maybe not searching correctly. So if any of you have a photo or can point me to one, it would be a big help. Thanks!

OK, this is a bit ugly since I didn't run the wires in the wall yet, but here's a pair mounted in my guest bedroom:

http://www.robbroy.net/images/HT/012806/Rear_Office_1_28_26Lg.JPG

SVS also sells wall mounts that will allow you to angle them as desired, but that will cause them to stick out a couple of inches from the wall.

HTH,

-Robb

Hello all. I'm trying to convince my wife that I can mount the SBS-01 on the wall (she wants something smaller, less intrusive), but I can't seem to find any photos of them mounted on walls. I've searched through the forum, but maybe not searching correctly. So if any of you have a photo or can point me to one, it would be a big help. Thanks!This is from the SVS site: "The SBS-01 satellite speaker comes complete with small adhesive foam rubber foot pads for basic placement on a bookshelf; or you can place them on optional stands (which also come with additional rubber pads). There’s more than one way to put them up on wall even. Use the beefy wall brackets we offer to mate with machined threaded inserts (already embedded into the cabinet), or try the “key-hole” fitting for simple and firm hanging with a simple screw driven into your room’s wall studs."

Here (http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-bracket.cfm) is a link to the wall and ceiling mounts.

When did SVS improve the woofers in the PB2/ plus 2? And what did they improve?
I have not seen SVS publish that kind of technical detail on the Plus driver upgrade. The current 12.3 was a 'clean slate' redesign, however, not just a 'tweak' upgrade. IIRC Q2 of 2006 was when the 12.3 version of the Plus driver became available. The current upgrade price is $169, but IIRC SVS discounts pairs for /2 enclosures to. . .I want to say $300 but that seems low, check with SVS. In fact, if you are considering upgrading, emailing Tom at techsupport@svsound.com would be a good idea -- give him the serial# of your sub and your room size and listening preferences and he'll be able to advise you better than I can :)

I am looking at this sub for my setup PB10 NSD. It fits the size opening I have I just wonder if it's big enough for a room 13ft by 19 ft with 8ft ceilings. It will be used for about 60% movies. It goes as deep as I want? I will not be seated 19ft from the sub. I will be seated anywhere from 3ft to about 12ft.

Thoughts or opinions on this sub? Likes or dislikes?

Thanks

I am looking at this sub for my setup PB10 NSD. It fits the size opening I have I just wonder if it's big enough for a room 13ft by 19 ft with 8ft ceilings. It will be used for about 60% movies. It goes as deep as I want? I will not be seated 19ft from the sub. I will be seated anywhere from 3ft to about 12ft.

Thoughts or opinions on this sub? Likes or dislikes?

Thanks

If you can afford it, look at the PB12-NSD. If not, make sure to keep that PB10 nearfield (close to you) as that is a bigger space than I deal with. Its a great 'not so little' sub, I enjoy mine quite a bit. Still tuning it though, so I have a ways to go.

I totally agree with confusedsoul, go for the pb12 nsd. It will take you awhile longer to upgrade as opposed to the pb10.

Hey all, just got our PB10-NSD on Friday and so far the back corner seems to be the best as far as overall response. There is no EQ so this is just as good as it will get for now.

This first picture is taken with my RS meter set to 80 on the dial:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/bhepper/backcornerofroomnoeq.jpg

The second one is taken with my RS meter set to 70. I like this one the best but what do you all think?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/bhepper/backcornerofroomnoeqrsmeter70.jpg

I'm not sure what setting the meter to differnet things means and why the graphs are so different, but this is a lot better than what I was getting before. The peak of #@40 is still there, but the dropoff to 60 thereafter is gone!

This AVS member contacted me at svsound, but I also wanted to post the reply here for the benefit of others who may also be struggling with room acoustics problems.

FR problems are best attacked with several tools:

1) Experiment with subwoofer location:

You've already tried this with little success. I'm not a fan of nearfield placement because it often makes the subwoofer easy to localize and harder to phase it with the front stage. But some people have decent luck with it so give it a try - you've got nothing to lose at this point.

2) Experiment with listening position location:

Measure the FR at several locations on the sectional and you may find that peak/null doesn't exist at all listening positions. Usually you can "map out" the peak/null and possibly find a sweet spot at the sectional where the FR is improved.

3) Install bass traps:

While even the largest bass traps likely won't help the 40 Hz peak, good ones might have some effect on the 60 Hz null. Check out ASC, Real Traps, GIK Acoustics, Ready Acoustics, and RPG Acoustics for more information.

4) Use a PEQ:

If the 40 Hz peak is prevalent at several listening positions, a PEQ can be used to reduce the severity of this peak. The Behringer FBQ2496 is a very good unit for ~$150 street.

5) Install dual subs on the front stage:

Dual subs spaced about 5 feet apart on the front stage (flanking the TV) can often result in a smoother FR at the listening position. You can use your old sub (or borrow another sub) to see if this helps before you actually commit to a 2nd sub.

Good luck and let us know how it goes. :)

The 12 matches the offering from HSU I was looking at the 2.3 and the funding is slow but I can wait. My main problem is space. With the 10 inch sub it would fit in an opening I already have with the 12 inch I would have to move things around and hope it would fit and move a rack with about 200 dvd's on it. Nevermind the 12 inch sub is too deep when I am going to put it. It would stick out too far.

Thanks for the input!

FR problems are best attacked with several tools:

4) Use a PEQ:

If the 40 Hz peak is prevalent at several listening positions, a PEQ can be used to reduce the severity of this peak. The Behringer FBQ2496 is a very good unit for ~$150 street.



I can't speak to the other suggestions, but I added a Behringer Feedback Destroyer 1124P - which I picked up for about $70 on ebay . Using Room EQ Wizard, I was able to smooth out my response and it was a noticeable improvement.

I've attached my before and after graphs (note my receiver has a 90Hz crossover).
This is for a 25-31 PC+ tuned to 20Hz.


Mitch

A look at the graph Mitch posted above explains better than I can why I recommend inexpensive electronic EQ first, before bass traps, in the average residential setting, for corrections below 200 Hz. Above 200Hz (this is not a hard and fast break point, you can say 'somewhere between 100 and 300 Hz') it's important to get acoustic treatments in first, especially in hard surfaced rooms, and especially at the first reflection points.

This is not to say that bass traps are not beneficial as well -- what isn't shown on a frequency response graph is the time 'smearing' of the sound pressure waves bouncing back and forth off the walls of the room, interfering with each other, and arriving at the listening position at different times, which bass traps can greatly reduce. And certainly if you are designing a theater or listening room from scratch, or remodeling an existing room for that purpose, acoustic treatments should be in from the very start.

But for the average person on a budget wanting to even out their bass FR in an existing room, IMO the first $200 or so is best spent on EQ :)

The 12 matches the offering from HSU I was looking at the 2.3 and the funding is slow but I can wait. My main problem is space. With the 10 inch sub it would fit in an opening I already have with the 12 inch I would have to move things around and hope it would fit and move a rack with about 200 dvd's on it. Nevermind the 12 inch sub is too deep when I am going to put it. It would stick out too far.

Thanks for the input!

Have you ever consider a cylindrical sub? Perhaps a PCi 25-31 custom tuned at 22hz for $549, a little cheaper than the PB12 NSD and it takes less floor space.

Have you ever consider a cylindrical sub? Perhaps a PCi 25-31 custom tuned at 22hz for $549, a little cheaper than the PB12 NSD and it takes less floor space.
I have considered one but I'm not to sure the WAF is there. I keep trying to wear her down. With luck in a month or two she will give in.

In order to appease the WAF gods..I'm considering not selling off my SVS 20-39 Cylinder sub and instead putting in BEHIND the TV/TV Stand which is angled (kitty-corner) with a plasma on it. This way the display hides the the height of the sub. Will the TV stand "hide" the bass from the sub or might it work Ok as bass is reasonably omnidirectional?

crude MS paint sketch for illustrative purposes

http://home.comcast.net/~davemcsjr/LR.bmp

In order to appease the WAF gods..I'm considering not selling off my SVS 20-39 Cylinder sub and instead putting in BEHIND the TV/TV Stand which is angled (kitty-corner) with a plasma on it. This way the display hides the the height of the sub. Will the TV stand "hide" the bass from the sub or might it work Ok as bass is reasonably omnidirectional? That's how my 16-46 PC+ is positioned, and it works great.

In order to appease the WAF gods..I'm considering not selling off my SVS 20-39 Cylinder sub and instead putting in BEHIND the TV/TV Stand which is angled (kitty-corner) with a plasma on it. This way the display hides the the height of the sub. Will the TV stand "hide" the bass from the sub or might it work Ok as bass is reasonably omnidirectional?

crude MS paint sketch for illustrative purposes



You've got pretty much the same crappy room layout as me.
My cylinder is behind my TV in the corner and it works great.

BTW, I'm curious as to where do you have your surrounds?


Mitch

the surounds will be "phase 2" of my affair. the WAF is forcing me to sell my NHT SuperOnes and I am looking to go with smaller units like the HSU Ventriloquists or Orbs. The fronts will obvoiusly go along the TV stand..I think the rears will probably go all the way at the rear of the room in the top corners. Small white rears should get the OK.

You'd think that since I did all the repainting and sweat equity in the room I'd get some more slack in the speaker category ! :)

Dave, in a room as large as yours, corner loading your sub is a good thing -- the caveat is that corner placement can result in less even bass at your listening position, and can result in an overemphasis in the low bass. If you have the Plus model, you may be able to adjust the port tuning to better balance the bass output.

These are just things to watch for, however. You should definately give the corner placement a try, and don't forget that even pulling the sub a few inches out of the corner can make a significant difference in the evenness of the sound.

Quick Question: Can the PB10-NSD hit 17-18hz at all? Someone was telling me recently that it it can't go below 20hz or risk damage.

Wasn't last year's model the PB10-ISD rated at 18-100hz while the new NSD is at 20-100hz?

Quick Question: Can the PB10-NSD hit 17-18hz at all? Someone was telling me recently that it it can't go below 20hz or risk damage.
When considering various options with Ed Mullen awhile ago, he mentioned that the PB10-NSD is tuned to 17.5Hz, so clearly it will hit that low. You might want to verify with Ed rather than take my word for it, as their published specs don't mention that.

And the NSD's are about as "bullet proof" as a sub can be. SVS uses a limiter on the amp, which makes the user have to go out of his way to harm the driver. They also incorporate an infrasonic filter to prevent stressing the sub at frequencies it is not designed to reproduce (many other powered subs have the same safeguard).

So in a 12x15x9 foot room: 1620 cubic foot room, I guess the PB10-NSD will be ideal for the $$$?

So is the general consensus that the 10" NSD is an imporvement over the 10" ISD, because the specs say otherwise (18-100hz for ISD, and 20-100hz for NSD).

Actually, there isn't much difference between a 10" NSD and ISD. The 12" NSD is significantly improved over the 12" ISD, but that doesn't hold for the 10" version.

My guess is that SVS changed their published specs for marketing reasons, to give the 12" a better spec. Ed told me that they are tuned the same, but the 12" has 3-4dB more output. In my opinion, you wouldn't need the extra output in your room, but again, I'd suggest you ask SVS directly.

The PB10 will get you good response down to 18hz +/-3db in most rooms...about another 3db down @ 16hz. The design and driver performance hasn't changed just their FR graph. In a small to moderate room < 2000 cube there's not a huge difference between the PB10 and my 20-39+...I checked...just a bit more articulation with the Plus. The PB10 is a performance beast, IMO.

Quick Question: Can the PB10-NSD hit 17-18hz at all? Someone was telling me recently that it it can't go below 20hz or risk damage.

Wasn't last year's model the PB10-ISD rated at 18-100hz while the new NSD is at 20-100hz?

You're getting great advice here. The PB10-NSD is tuned to 17.5 Hz. We designed it to start rolling off below 20 Hz, but it still has plenty of clean output capability at 17-18 Hz.

With effective limiters and a high pass filter, the design is virtually bullet-proof; it will just stop getting louder compress the dynamics if you overdrive it.

The PB10-ISD and the PB10-NSD are virtually the same subwoofer; the model name change indicated when switched from using TC-Sounds to in-house fabrication for the woofer manufacturing. But the two woofers were/are built to the same exact specifications.

The PB12-NSD is tuned to ~18 Hz and holds a 3-4 dB (40-60%) clean output advantage over the PB10-NSD at most test frequencies.

In a smallish room, the PB10-NSD will have plenty of output and impact for most applications, but if you're a real bass head the extra power of the PB12-NSD will be welcome at very high volumes.

We also have customers opting for dual PB10-NSD (typically on the front stage) which provide a ~50% bump in performance over a single PB12-NSD and also deal more effectively with room modes.

Does anyone know how big the shipping box is for the 25-31 PCi? I am wondering whether it'll fit in a midsize sedan. I guess I can always take it out of the box and transport it that way, but don't want to risk any damage.

Also, how heavy is this sub? SVS's site lists the weight for the higher-end 25-31 PC+ at 51 lbs. I guess the regular 25-31 would weigh about the same?

Quick Question: Can the PB10-NSD hit 17-18hz at all? Someone was telling me recently that it it can't go below 20hz or risk damage.

Wasn't last year's model the PB10-ISD rated at 18-100hz while the new NSD is at 20-100hz?
It's already said before, but I'll just post my actual numbers in a room about the same size as yours (16x14 but open to another 15x12 dining area). I was getting down to 18 Hz at -3dB, 16 Hz at -6dB, 6 Hz at -12 dB (obviously a bit of room gain here).

Want to thanks Macfan, Ron, Ed, and Patdeisa, you just made me decide on the PB10-NSD. I'm going to check out Sonic boom audio and give the sub a serious listen. If all goes well, as I expect, I'm gonna pick one up. :D

PS: Did the little red swirl on the SVS logo change to Blue this year or is it random? :confused:

Does anyone know how big the shipping box is for the 25-31 PCi? I am wondering whether it'll fit in a midsize sedan. I guess I can always take it out of the box and transport it that way, but don't want to risk any damage.

Also, how heavy is this sub? SVS's site lists the weight for the higher-end 25-31 PC+ at 51 lbs. I guess the regular 25-31 would weigh about the same?

19"x19"x37" Weight is slightly less than the 25-31PC+.

Does anyone know how big the shipping box is for the 25-31 PCi? I am wondering whether it'll fit in a midsize sedan. I guess I can always take it out of the box and transport it that way, but don't want to risk any damage.
Nah that's a tough little bugger, not much to damage if your reasonably careful. Congrats!

Take it out of the box and just lay it across your backseat....it will fit fine that way...

Folks have been placing cylinders on their sides on the floor for a long time -- behind the couch or behind the TV are two typical horizontal placements -- so you'll have no problems laying it on your car seat. Keep the box though -- you can "break it down" and fold it flat for transport and storage -- and especially keep the 'cradle' pieces of styofoam -- you'll need them if you ever ship the sub.

Hello all Just wanted to let yas know I am looking for s second SB12Plus in rosenut If someone is looking to sell one let me know
Thanks

I chipped the piano black finish on our brand new PB12+/2. it was stupid, a coffee table got knocked right into it. its a tiny spec but i cannot stop looking at it. Please tell me there's something I can do to make it reasonably inconspicuous.

I chipped the piano black finish on our brand new PB12+/2. it was stupid, a coffee table got knocked right into it. its a tiny spec but i cannot stop looking at it. Please tell me there's something I can do to make it reasonably inconspicuous.
You will not be happy if you try and fix the chip SO you should sell it to me half price since it is dammaged and you get a new one
See everyone is happy no more chip
LOL

I chipped the piano black finish on our brand new PB12+/2. it was stupid, a coffee table got knocked right into it. its a tiny spec but i cannot stop looking at it. Please tell me there's something I can do to make it reasonably inconspicuous.

You can try to find a furniture repair guy in your area who specializes in fixing finishes. In fact, you can try calling a local high-end furniture store and see who they send out when a piece of furniture is marred during delivery.


Mitch

19"x19"x37" Weight is slightly less than the 25-31PC+.
Thanks all. I am now officially an SVS sub owner, at least on paper. :)

I am about to buy my first sub to go with the new yamaha ysp 1100. My room is 10x12x8. I was about to pull the trigger on the pb10 and i keep thinging about the 22-39 pci. Which of these subs would be better? Would the PB10 do a good in this size room. Thanks
Joseph

I am about to buy my first sub to go with the new yamaha ysp 1100. My room is 10x12x8. I was about to pull the trigger on the pb10 and i keep thinging about the 22-39 pci. Which of these subs would be better? Would the PB10 do a good in this size room. Thanks

Joseph


The PB10 should be enough for that room. With the 20-39Pci you'll have enough headroom for your listening habits. I have the same size of room as you do and I added another PB10 for headroom and flexibility of placement.

I am about to buy my first sub to go with the new yamaha ysp 1100. My room is 10x12x8. I was about to pull the trigger on the pb10 and i keep thinging about the 22-39 pci. Which of these subs would be better? Would the PB10 do a good in this size room. Thanks
Joseph
The only good reason to go with the 20-39 in your very small room (960 cf) is to get the slightly smaller footprint (315 sq/in PB vs 256 sq/in PC). You will get more headroom with the 12" driver and 20W more power, but you won't need it. Unless every square inch of floor space is at a premium, go with the PB10 and save a few $$$.

Shoot you never know what the future holds......go for the 22-39 Pci!!! And don't look back!

I ment to say the pb-10 or the 25-31(turn down to 22)

Shoot you never know what the future holds......go for the 22-39 Pci!!! And don't look back!That's like saying I might have 5 kids in the future, so I better buy a minivan instead of the Prius. The PB10 will be more than needed in a <1000cf room.

On the other hand, I didn't ask if the room dimensions are for a closed room, or does it open to other space?

Cap'n, I do have to say you live in a lovely part of the country. At least at this time of the year. I just got back from Asheville, yesterday. Actually, I was in Waynesville tuesday thru Friday, drove to Charleston Friday night and back on Saturday night. With the Smokies covered in green and the mild temperatures, I had a pleasant stay.

The room has 4 walls and 2 doorway that will be closed. Will the pb10 hit hard at mid-level volumes? It will be in the back of the room behind my sofa chair because that is the only space it could go,would that be ok. Do i face the ports at the wall or away from it. Thanks for all the help.

In such a small closed off room, the PB10 should be able to knock your socks off. :)

I was thinking more like a 16-46 PCi. You can really exploit it's extension capabilities in a room that small. Even try it in 12hz mode. :cool:

Tim

The room has 4 walls and 2 doorway that will be closed. Will the pb10 hit hard at mid-level volumes? It will be in the back of the room behind my sofa chair because that is the only space it could go,would that be ok. Do i face the ports at the wall or away from it. Thanks for all the help.With a closed room, that small, you're in-like-flint with any SVS sub. Let your budget and floor space be your guide. All the subs mentioned only have 1 port. The PB is in front with the driver. The PC is at the top with the driver at the bottom. It doesn't matter which direction you face it as long as you have enough clearance. Ask SVS about recommended clearance.

If you don't mind the cost, look at Oval's suggestion. With a 16-46 in that room, tuned to 12Hz and WOTW on your player. Make sure you get some Depends for movie night.

Next week I am moving into my new house. I will be moving my +/2 from an 8,800cf open space to a 1,500cf closed space. I will let you know what having way more sub than you need is like.

The room has 4 walls and 2 doorway that will be closed. Will the pb10 hit hard at mid-level volumes? It will be in the back of the room behind my sofa chair because that is the only space it could go,would that be ok. Do i face the ports at the wall or away from it. Thanks for all the help.To try to avoid some confusion, while a 16-46 PCi would be dynamite in that space, you can't change it's tuning. You have to step up to a PC-Plus for that. I have one of those tuned to 12Hz and love it, but it's in a whole different price range.

A PB10 would be a great choice for your room. It's tuned to 17.5Hz, and room gain is likely to bring it below 15Hz in that space. And it will most assuredly hit hard in the mid bass without breaking a sweat. You can face it either forward or sideways, whichever way it fits best, as both the driver and port are on the front.

Thanks Macfan for the clarification. I didn't mean to confuse. The 16-46 PCi does not have adjustable tuning.

What I guess you could do is ask SVS if they can put in a different length port tube to try forcing the PCi tuning a little lower, maybe into the 14hz range? It would be worth a call at least.


Tim

Thanks Macfan for the clarification. I didn't mean to confuse. The 16-46 PCi does not have adjustable tuning.

What I guess you could do is ask SVS if they can put in a different length port tube to try forcing the PCi tuning a little lower, maybe into the 14hz range? It would be worth a call at least.


TimMy bad, too. I keep forgetting the PCi is not tunable. I usually deal with the Pluses and just assume tunability.

Hello all I have wife approval for a second sub
I now have one SB12+ and my room layout does not alow best placement no corner -I like alot of lows but when I turn up my sub I can tell its coming from the front right of the room
My thoughts are to run another SB12+ on the other side of my TV stand to get better coverage and even out the lows in the room
My major complaints are lack of lows for MUSIC not HT
Any thoughts if this is a good idea to add a second SB12+
Thanks

Excellent idea, IMHO.

Hello all I have wife approval for a second sub
I now have one SB12+ and my room layout does not alow best placement no corner -I like alot of lows but when I turn up my sub I can tell its coming from the front right of the room
My thoughts are to run another SB12+ on the other side of my TV stand to get better coverage and even out the lows in the room
My major complaints are lack of lows for MUSIC not HT
Any thoughts if this is a good idea to add a second SB12+
Thanks
My only concern is the SB12+ does not dig down and have as much output as Its big brothers
If I went with one larger sub would it be $$$ better spend BUT If I did that again I do not have great layout so I may be able to tell where the lows are coming from
Thanks

If you place a second one where the stool is in your picture, you should eliminate the directionality problem, and most likely increase output and smooth overall response. In other words, I'd say the second sub is indeed a good idea. :cool:

antman, and I would also push the first sub a bit more forward til its aligned with the tv stand.

antman, and I would also push the first sub a bit more forward til its aligned with the tv stand.
Thanks I will give that a try
I am nervous about Phase and the room comp running 2
But cant wait to try

That's like saying I might have 5 kids in the future, so I better buy a minivan instead of the Prius. The PB10 will be more than needed in a <1000cf room.

On the other hand, I didn't ask if the room dimensions are for a closed room, or does it open to other space?

Cap'n, I do have to say you live in a lovely part of the country. At least at this time of the year. I just got back from Asheville, yesterday. Actually, I was in Waynesville tuesday thru Friday, drove to Charleston Friday night and back on Saturday night. With the Smokies covered in green and the mild temperatures, I had a pleasant stay.

Yea it sucks...........glad I have my HT system..........!! and my computer!

Antman, a couple of things you could try to reduce localization:

In your receiver setup, decrease your crossover frequency to the sub to 60Hz (I assume you have it at 80Hz now). This will help keep higher more localizable frequencies out of the sub.
Give this a fair shake on several recordings -- you will brobably need to tweak the sub gain a little.

If an 80Hz x-o sounds better, another way you can roll off the frequencies above 80Hz coming out of the sub faster is to enable the cossover on the SB12's plate amp, thus adding it's rolloff to the x-o in your receiver. Setting the SB12's x-o at 80Hz would seem correct, but frequency markings on plate amp x-o's are not always exactly accurate -- what you want to do is to set the x-o knob to the highest frequency marked and then gradually decrease it. This is a whole lot easier if you have test tones to work with -- if you don't, just try setting the SB12 x-o to 80 Hz and see if it helps reduce localization.

I have two SB12s, one on each side, and I think you will like the extra headroom and evenness of bass the second unit provides. :)

I did it. I just bought my first sub. I got the 22-31pci. I know theres a page with about a 1,000 bass shakeing movies can someone tell me some good horror movies that will shake my nails out of my hardwood floors.

can someone tell me some good horror movies that will shake my nails out of my hardwood floors.
The Haunting in DTS ;)

ggunnell and anyone else using 2 subs
Do you wire them in stereo or 2 Mono LFE ?

ggunnell and anyone else using 2 subs
Do you wire them in stereo or 2 Mono LFE ?I run them through the LFE.

Me too

Me three, Antman :)

Hooking up a pair of subs as what the DIY'ers call "bass bins" for your main speakers can be done -- the subs each receive the bass portion of your mains signal. For strictly 2ch, the subs are simply your mains woofers -- but you can't use the plate x-o on the SB12's unless you are willing to used the fixed high-pass crossover frequency applied to the signal sent on to the mains from the high level outputs on the SB12 -- like most subs, the high level signal out to the mains has a fixed x-o, usually in the range of 80 to 120 Hz. You can, of course, simply add the subs output to your mains (you can connect to the sub either with speaker wire to the high level inputs, or, better, RCA interconnects from your L and R pre-outs on your receiver, one to each sub), but you loose the primary (IMO) SQ advantage of adding an external woofer, that of getting the low bass out of your mains woofers.

As soon as you start playing movies, since your mains must be set to Large for the above setups to work, the LFE signal appears in the subs anyway. But the correct extension of stereo subs to movie encoding formats, called 'direct and redirected bass', requires a third (or more) subs that do the LFE and, optionally but usually, the redirected bass from the center and surround channels -- no LFE or redirected bass from other channels is supposed to end up in your mains in this setup. Getting the LFE and redirected bass to go exactly where you want it and not anywhere else requires sophisticated bass management in your front end.

The bottom line, IMO, is that if you want to implement external woofers for 2ch you need to get an external stereo crossover like a Behringer DCX2436. I have a very nice Marchand crossover, and right now I'm still running the same signal from my receivers sub out to all my subs because its easier to set up. Oh yeah -- forget doing anything like this without REW or TrueRTA -- you'll get old trying to use an RS meter taking one reading at a time to set something like this up.

If you want to implement a full 'direct and redirected bass' multiple sub system for movie formats, budget several thousand for electronics (IMO) :)

I did it. I just bought my first sub. I got the 22-31pci. I know theres a page with about a 1,000 bass shakeing movies can someone tell me some good horror movies that will shake my nails out of my hardwood floors.

PULSE & The Ring

An American Haunting has a few good moments for LEF in them! Pulse would be my pic but be careful with it at the end in the computer room.......It's some Hella deep base!~

If I'm not mistaken, The Incredibles DVD has bass that goes down to 3hz when the kids are being chased.

ggunnell thats allot of info
I was planing on running the LFE out of my Denon 3805 set all speakers to small xo 60 or 80in the denon into my Velo SMS-1 The SMS-1 has 3 Sub outputs
It wont be stereo but should work properly RIGHT ?

Pulse would be my pic but be careful with it at the end in the computer room.......It's some Hella deep base!~

yah it makes my 25-31pci(22hz tuned) chuff

Hey DrPain, at what master volume does your sub chuff, and do you have it calibrated hot, if so how much?

Thanks,

Tim

Hey DrPain, at what master volume does your sub chuff, and do you have it calibrated hot, if so how much?

Thanks,

Tim

I have my system all calibrated via AVIA , so 85db

gain on the svs is just under 11 o'clock

receiver (Pio 515) is -5db for sub volume

I think I was playing it at around -7 to -10db higher then reference level (-15db on my av is "reference level" at 85db)

edit:
this is just from memory, im not sure, I recored it on my movie chan, still have it , so ill check again.

it starts to chuff and fart at -28db any lower its harsh

ggunnell thats allot of info
I was planing on running the LFE out of my Denon 3805 set all speakers to small xo 60 or 80in the denon into my Velo SMS-1 The SMS-1 has 3 Sub outputs
It wont be stereo but should work properly RIGHT ?

That is exactly correct. It's fine to have all your subs get the same signal -- as long as you don't let the subs go higher than 80Hz. A 60Hz x-o is even better IF your mains and other speakers can go that low -- let your ears be your guide.
Timing issues with multiple subs can be challenging, but since both your subs will be near your mains, and close to equidistant form your listening position, you may be able to get by leaving the phase controls at 0 and simply set the correct distances in your receiver set-up. :)

Thanks ggunnell
Next question is My Denons LFE is RCA output into my SMS-1
The SMS-1 has Balanced audio out and my SB12+ has Balanced in also
Would there be any benefits of connecting my subs Balanced over the RCAs Or should I use RCAs all the way through since its not Balanced out of the Denon ?
Thanks

Thanks ggunnell
Next question is My Denons LFE is RCA output into my SMS-1
The SMS-1 has Balanced audio out and my SB12+ has Balanced in also
Would there be any benefits of connecting my subs Balanced over the RCAs Or should I use RCAs all the way through since its not Balanced out of the Denon ?
Thanks


Unless you're getting noise through the RCA jacks already, or making an extra long run, balanced offers no benefits to unbalanced.

What are peoples thoughts/experiences with sub phase?

I just changed my setup. Moved the sub, put it out of phase 180, dropped the x-over to 50hz, re-ran my Pioneer MCACC setup, fiddled with the levels/distance a bit manually and my sound is noticeably better.

Pics: http://www.silvren.com/hometheatreavs/

J

What are peoples thoughts/experiences with sub phase?

I just changed my setup. Moved the sub, put it out of phase 180, dropped the x-over to 50hz, re-ran my Pioneer MCACC setup, fiddled with the levels/distance a bit manually and my sound is noticeably better.

Pics: http://www.silvren.com/hometheatreavs/

J


No graphs yet? Whats the hold up bub? All those questions for nothing? LOL, j/k. Just thought you'd have a chance to make them by now.

Brad

. . . and my sound is noticeably better.

And your problem is? ;)

Sorry, I couldn't resist, Jarin! Because you just did what everyone should do -- you took control of your own system -- sub placement, receiver setup, manual adjustments -- LISTENING to yor results! -- something we CAN"T do for you or anyone else remotely. Good job, Jarin!

On single sub setups, the method I personally use is to leave the phase control at 0, and manually adjust the sub distance in my receiver, starting at the actual distance and then adding 3 feet, then 6 feet, then 9 feet, then 12 feet, while playing a test tone at the x-o frequency between your mains and sub (50Hz in your case), while using a meter to measure the volume. Once you get an idea of the general range of distance that results in max SPL, you can focus in closer -- say you get max SPL with the sub distance set between 3 feet and 6 feet longer than the actual distance -- OK, try 4 feet longer and 5 feet longer.

If you could just twirl a knob back and forth to adjust the distance setting while listening, a meter might not be necessary.

This method is based on the suggestions of someone who does not post here anymore (search in the Archives), who used a similar method to deal with the fact that in some systems he had discovered that some front end bass management DSP, and/or some sub plate amp signal processing, ended up delaying the bass output of the sub by various numbers of milliseconds (relative to the bass output from the mains). A simple fix is to use the delay lines (distance settings) in your front end to delay all the other signals a few milliseconds to match you sub -- that's what we're doing above. Many posters on many boards find that auto setup programs place the sub farther away than the actual distance.

A little knowlege of sound helps -- like it travels about 1130 feet per second at room temp, sea level, very roughly a foot adjustment in your distance settings corresponds to a millisecond delay -- and the wavelength at 50 Hz is 1130 / 50 = 22.6 feet. So if you find the most cancellation (silence) between your sub and your mains at 50Hz with your sub distance set to 15 feet longer than actual, your peak should occur 1/2 wavelength (11.3 feet) prior -- at 3.7 feet over the actual distance. This is the "it's more exact to tune from a null' method -- again, credit goes to many others. :)

No matter how you do it, you want to adjust the phase at the crossover frequency -- subs (speakers in general) don't mantain constant phase/delay
with frequency, the important thing is to avoid cancellation between the mains and the sub at the crossover frequency.

There, I've given you some things to try on a rainy afternoon :)

Come on nobody wants to upgrade and sell me there SB12Plus in rosenut ?

I just wanted to post to say that despite the PB-10’s size it can fit into an entertainment center! I just replaced my Yamaha YST-215 with a used PB-10(I couldn’t afford brand new). The install required taking the TV and top deck off but I got it in there. There was less than 1/8 of an inch clearance between the top of the sub and the bottom of the top deck.

I know this isn’t the ideal position but sometimes the WAF is the most important thing. Anyway I am loving my new sub. The difference between it and the Yamaha is astounding. Good job SVS and thanks to everyone who helped me find the perfect sub! Pics below.

Just look at the difference between the yamaha's size and the SVS.

Just remember, if this is less than 2 years old and you bought it from the original owner, the balance of the warranty is transferable. If you need service, you must know the name of the original owner.

Have you played anything significant yet?

Yes I totally plan on transferring the warranty. I have the original owners name. I will take care of that later this week.

Nope I really didn't get to listen to anything with really low stuff in it. My kids were in the house so all I listened to was Eric Clapton's "Sunshine of my Love" from MHD. That doesn't have low bass but it really shows how much more accurate the PB10 is at the mid-bass than my old sub.

I will rattle the house next time the wife and kids are away!

Good. I've never liked warranties that were limited to the original purchaser only. If a company wants to claim to stand behind their product, then who has it now shouldn't matter. They should just ensure it wasn't stolen.

What do you plan to play first when you get the chance to let the PB10 stretch its legs.

It's uhmmm... big. If it had a dome, I would dress it up as R2D2.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d102/escape2music/audio/P1020080.jpg

Good. I've never liked warranties that were limited to the original purchaser only. If a company wants to claim to stand behind their product, then who has it now shouldn't matter. They should just ensure it wasn't stolen.

What do you plan to play first when you get the chance to let the PB10 stretch its legs.

The usual LOTR ROTK, Black Hawk down, Incredibles, Step Into Liquid HD(Nothing like jaws crashing all around you. With +10 DB LFE compensation gain), Some Tool songs, Beastie Boys, and probably some Star Wars/Empire/ROtJ.

I just ordered my SECOND SVS SB12 Plus
Happy Farthers day and Birthday to me :D

It's uhmmm... big. If it had a dome, I would dress it up as R2D2.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d102/escape2music/audio/P1020080.jpgHow do you like it...I've got a bigger one and still have problems with the looks...fortunately, I never see it...no problems on the audio end though.

So far so good. I played some of those HT Demo discs that AVS members put together over the years, including the Darla scene from Finding Nemo. I could hear the bass - it was nice and balanced, but I couldn't really feel it. I guess for that I would need something that goes lower. Still, compared to the STF-1 that I had before, it's a big improvement. Considering I've got a total of about 3400 cu. ft. to fill, not bad at all. I was watching Apocalypto last night... all I can wish for right now is just a bigger TV. I'm happy with the audio part.

So far so good. I played some of those HT Demo discs that AVS members put together over the years, including the Darla scene from Finding Nemo. I could hear the bass - it was nice and balanced, but I couldn't really feel it. I guess for that I would need something that goes lower. Still, compared to the STF-1 that I had before, it's a big improvement. Considering I've got a total of about 3400 cu. ft. to fill, not bad at all. I was watching Apocalypto last night... all I can wish for right now is just a bigger TV. I'm happy with the audio part.

SORRY, but what model do you have?

Click on my public profile. :)

It's 25-31PCi though.

So far so good. I played some of those HT Demo discs that AVS members put together over the years, including the Darla scene from Finding Nemo. I could hear the bass - it was nice and balanced, but I couldn't really feel it. I guess for that I would need something that goes lower. Still, compared to the STF-1 that I had before, it's a big improvement. Considering I've got a total of about 3400 cu. ft. to fill, not bad at all. I was watching Apocalypto last night... all I can wish for right now is just a bigger TV. I'm happy with the audio part.You should get some giggles from the bass response, even in a 3400^3 room, but don't believe all the hype from the referenced demos. Darla is ~ 25-26hz and most subs do a creditable job. The really deep and strong stuff will show off your woof and make you wonder, "if only I'd gone bigger". I think the 25-31 is a real sweetspot in the SVS lineup that gets overshadowed by it's deeper cousins. I don't run my 20-39+ in anything but it's stock tune...cuz it sounds better.

Click on my public profile. :)

It's 25-31PCi though.
ok, thought so, little hard to tell in the pic what the size was

I just ordered my SECOND SVS SB12 Plus
Happy Farthers day and Birthday to me :D
Congratulations, Antman! Paraphasing car hot rodders, "There's no substitute for square inches!" (of radiating area for subs). Plus the versatility of various room placements to even out bass response.

Hi, I have a set up that consists of Definitive BP7002, CLR300, BPX/VP powered by an Elite 74TXVi (soon to be updating to a 4308ci or TX-NR905). Im in the market for a sub and seeing if you guys would recommend the PB12-Plus/2 or wait for the PB13-Ultra for my setup. I really like SVS. Some of my buddys have them and I really like the way they sound. Thanks for your guys input.

Anyone using dual PB12 Plus/2s I ordered my second one over the weekend. WHat should I expect once I pair these bad boys up with the SMS-1

Congratulations, Antman! Paraphasing car hot rodders, "There's no substitute for square inches!" (of radiating area for subs). Plus the versatility of various room placements to even out bass response.
Thanks I do not have great placement in my room and that is why I went with the second
One on each end of the TV stand should even out my lows
I HOPE

It will even out your lows, Antman.

Another thing you could try is setting your mains right on top of the SB12s. The additional separation of the mains should result in a better stereo image. :)

Anyone using dual PB12 Plus/2s I ordered my second one over the weekend. WHat should I expect once I pair these bad boys up with the SMS-1
I own Ultras myself, but I've read quite a few posts in which dual PB12/Plus's 'solved' a room. With an SMS-1, you should have enough headroom to safely boost some frequency bands without overloading the subs.

Hi, I have a set up that consists of Definitive BP7002, CLR300, BPX/VP powered by an Elite 74TXVi (soon to be updating to a 4308ci or TX-NR905). Im in the market for a sub and seeing if you guys would recommend the PB12-Plus/2 or wait for the PB13-Ultra for my setup. I really like SVS. Some of my buddys have them and I really like the way they sound. Thanks for your guys input.

Under the current forum ban on discussion of the forthcoming Ultra, your question is difficult to answer in detail :) I'll risk this much:

Wait ;)

Under the current forum ban on discussion of the forthcoming Ultra, your question is difficult to answer in detail :) I'll risk this much:

Wait ;)

There is no current ban of discussion on the Upcoming Ultra.... As long as it is in this SVS thread...

I agree.... Wait for the New Ultra.... Will have a much more accurate motor/driver... so sound quality will more then likely be far better..

No, Warp -- David has made this clear -- this thread is to support EXISTING SVS products only -- and I don't want this thread closed or deleted. If I were, for example, to do a feature set comparison including the new Ultra, that could be considered 'post marketing'. As David requests in his post at the top of this section, the new Ultra can be discussed on other boards (the SVS forums at HomeTheaterSpot and HomeTheaterShack, for example). Once the new Ultra is a shipping product, then support questions here should be OK.
I think we've answered the OP's question :)

It will even out your lows, Antman.

Another thing you could try is setting your mains right on top of the SB12s. The additional separation of the mains should result in a better stereo image. :)
I absoulty will give that a try althow dont think the wife will like the look of that so I may move them back and fourth when I am listning LOUD by my self !

Under the current forum ban on discussion of the forthcoming Ultra, your question is difficult to answer in detail :) I'll risk this much:

Wait ;)

Thanks guys. sorry if im breaking any rules asking about PB13.

Oh, you are not breaking any rules asking, DWalk :)

I started a new post on adding another sub to my Ultra/2. Probably should of posted it here. Looking to add another sub.

Options:

#1: find a used Ultra/2
Good option is the price is right. Hard to find.
Shipping is at least $ 250.00.

#2: buy a Plus/2 from SVS.
Not as powerful of a sub, but looks the same. Is tuned the same.
Can be had for a decent price and shipping is MUCH less buying from
SVS. The 2.3 driver is very close in performance to the Ultra driver and
the amp is the same amp.


#3: Wait for the new model.
Price is right (same as Plus/2).
Tuning is not the same.
Looks are not the same.

I am not interested in selling my Ultra/2. It is a great performer
and shipping one would be a hassle.

FYI

I had a used pb12+/2 shipped from Texas to Toronto for $84, 3 days air freight. :)

If you are near a major airport, forward air is the way to go....
http://www.forwardair.com/

For me, I want the same sub for duals, but I want it for music too and I'm a perfectionist. For HT I'd be more than happy with a combo set up.

Good luck

kw.........

just purchased my first SVS sub....I bought the PB12-NSD. Im upgrading my 50 watt polk sub that came free with the speakers! I finally had some money to put into my speakers and thought I would upgrade the sub first. Just wanted to thank all the posters for their indepth reviews and studies. I know all that took some time...

...I bought the PB12-NSD. Im upgrading my 50 watt polk sub batten down the hatches! :D

Ok boys (& girls) - I see SVS is launching a newer PC - Ultra - the PC-Ultra Powered Cylinder Ultra Series (whatever that means). Anyway - I can get it for $150 off pre order from Sonic Boom with a $100 delivery charge (not bad at all).

I'm sure this sub is great for H/T - and I know that NO ONE can tell me what it sounds like (unless you work at SVS) as it is not released yet. But I would imagine it would be an improvement over the original PC-Ultra (with the new 13 driver).

So - the PC-Ultra - how 'musical' is it, or is it just an h/t sub. And don't get me wrong, I know a sub can't do both exceptionally well (musical and h/t) but the Turbo Hsu also looks very interesting and I could get one here for about the same price as the Ultra when all is said and done - and I've read the new Turbo Hsu VTF 3 MK3 is the best out there for the price - by far. Decisions decisions.

I guess I can say it will be about a 50/50 split and in a room that is 15 x 18 with a 14 foot vaulted ceiling and open on one side. Currently use a Paradigm that I will be moving to another room to replace a pathetic pos Yamaha that would do good for a computer).

Thanks

I have a current PC Ultra. It has always amazed me.

I preordered a new PC13 Ultra. I am completely confident that it's performance will exceed expectations.

The existing TV-12 based Ultra is a very musical sub. This sub is all about the details. I describe the sound of the Ultra like a chrome fist in a tight fitting velvet glove.

I can best describe the musicality of the current Ultra as things like a kickdrum. It's not that you hear the drum, which you certainly do. It's that you hear the pedal hit the drumhead, which causes you to hear the drum. Similarly with the bass guitar. You hear the fingers on the strings which cause you to hear the notes. It's a not too subtle difference.

The neatest trick though to me continues to be the rapid drastic barometric pressure changes during intense HT scenes. Literally breathtaking.

In my room, bass trapped and EQ'd, the one area that could use some assistance is in the upper bass range, from about 70 hz and up. It sounds stellar, and yet too it's just not as stable as one might ideally want. It's a nit, but worth noting. I understand based on some posting from SVS regarding the new Ultra that this was a recognized trait, and it has been addressed with the new Ultra.

I hope that helps answer your questions.


Tim

It's not even a choice IMO.

The new ultra should be an improvement over the HO turbo.

With HSU no longer distributed in Canada, the customs charges will be large. HSU used to be distributed in Canada but they dropped the distributor with no explanation at all. Now getting that sub here is a pricey proposition.

The turbo IMO makes the HSU subs look like they were beat with the entire ugly tree, not just the branch.

The ultra's have been considered among the best musical ported subs. The new ultra should improve on that too.

You have a large room since it is open, so if you want lot's of power. But the new ultra will definitely be more than the paradigm you have.

That shipping price is a very good deal. Shipping that sub from the US would be about $250 US, plus the customs charges.

FWIW I have a pb12+/2 in a 13X26 room that is open to a staircase and kitchen and it does well, but I'd like more. For music I find it good, and EQing it flat made a major improvement to sound quality (room resonance tends to cause all subs to have certain boomy frequencies).

Good luck

kw..........

...I know a sub can't do both exceptionally well (musical and h/t) ...

I see this argument every now and then, and it still doesn't make sense to me. How does a subwoofer know it is playing music or a movie (which contains lots of music)? If the subwoofer is faithfully reproducing the input signal, across the entire bandwidth of the input signal, it should be just as good at whatever that input signal is asking it to reproduce. I can see how a subwoofer might have a deficiency, or add coloration, or interact with a room in such a way as to be personally pleasing to an individual under certain circumstances, but that's about it. As an example, I could see a subwoofer not playing lower frequencies that take longer to decay, so that it appears better on music than it does on movies with deep material... unless your music is pipe organ...


I have a PB12-Ultra/2, and it is stellar on both movies and music (including pipe organ). Assuming the new Ultra subwoofers are even better, I see no reason to believe they also won't be fantastic for both movies and music.

-Robb

I started a new post on adding another sub to my Ultra/2. Probably should of posted it here. Looking to add another sub.

Options:

#1: find a used Ultra/2
Good option is the price is right. Hard to find.
Shipping is at least $ 250.00.

#2: buy a Plus/2 from SVS.
Not as powerful of a sub, but looks the same. Is tuned the same.
Can be had for a decent price and shipping is MUCH less buying from
SVS. The 2.3 driver is very close in performance to the Ultra driver and
the amp is the same amp.


#3: Wait for the new model.
Price is right (same as Plus/2).
Tuning is not the same.
Looks are not the same.

I am not interested in selling my Ultra/2. It is a great performer
and shipping one would be a hassle.

I have posted a WTB in the for sale section. If anybody's looking to get rid of
an Ultra/2, pm me.

Check videogon and audiogon too

kw.....

...I see this argument every now and then, and it still doesn't make sense to me... ... EQing it flat made a major improvement to sound quality (room resonance tends to cause all subs to have certain boomy frequencies)... My sentiments, exactly. I think "HT vs. music" debate is based on one of those audio myths that gets repeated so often people begin to accept it without question. A quality sub can and should do both well. Flat frequency response is necessary for clean music reproduction, and a good sub should be capable of that. Room interaction is a major problem which can undo a good sub, but EQ can do wonders in many situations.

Of course, there are boomy, usually inexpensive subs that some think sound "good" with movies, but atrocious with music that exposes their flaws. IMO, those don't qualify as quality subs.

The exception I'd make is that some subs do music well but are only fair with movies. Many sealed and small, but well designed ported subs fall into that category. It's only because they they don't deliver much response below 30Hz, which is not much of an issue with music (pipe organs excluded), but increasingly important in action/horror movies.

And building upon Macfan's points above, those room resonances are particularly pronounced in the lowest frequencies for a couple of reasons, among others:

1. With longer wavelengths and generally longer decay times, the room will tend to 'ring' more. And once those waves start doubling up on each other, they are more easily perceived based on their associated harmonics.

2. At the lowest frequencies is where a sub, even an excellent one, will produce it's greatest amount of distortion. That distortion tends to make more pronounced any resonances in the room, kind of like how adding smoke to a jet stream in a wind tunnel lets you see where the air is flowing.

In general terms, a 'musical' sub never plumbs the deepest darkest depths where the monsters live, so they never wake them up.

The exception to the above would be servo controlled sealed units where once the cone starts behaving badly, the output at those frequecies is attentuated. In that case, you're trading off lessening the distortion for actually not reproducing all of the signal that was input to the sub.


Tim

...In general terms, a 'musical' sub never plumbs the deepest darkest depths where the monsters live, so they never wake them up...Nice. :cool: I wish I'd said that!

I'm considering going with a cylinder (vs. box) due to weight differences (150lbs vs. 80lbs). Space is not an issue. Is the performance that much better with equivalent power box units?

Trying to decide on a pair of subs for my new home theater. SVS pb-12 plus (piano black) or HSU 3.3. Any input ont he SVS would be appreciated.

zingo

I'm considering going with a cylinder (vs. box) due to weight differences (150lbs vs. 80lbs). Space is not an issue. Is the performance that much better with equivalent power box units?

The boxes seem to hit harder. The cylinders seem to go lower, but lack the visceral thump.

I'm not sure that's the case Buckeye.

While SVS has stated that the new PB13 Ultra box does go a little lower and with a little more output than the new PC13 Ultra tube, there isn't any evidence of that being the case with any of the rest of their current product line.

Any perceived sonic differences between tubes and cubes of similar version SVS subs, (other than the new Ultras, as noted above), will be more readily attributable to setup/placement/calibration of each sub.


Tim

While SVS has stated that the new PB13 Ultra box does go a little lower and with a little more output than the new PC13 Ultra tube, there isn't any evidence of that being the case with any of the rest of their current product line.

Any perceived sonic differences between tubes and cubes of similar version SVS subs, (other than the new Ultras, as noted above), will be more readily attributable to setup/placement/calibration of each sub.

The PB13-Ultra has more interior enclosure volume and is tuned deeper than the PC-Ultra. It's a stronger performer at the very deepest frequencies for these reasons, but subjectively the two subs sound/feel similar on the majority of program material. The same can be said (for example) of the PB12-NSD and the 20-39PCi.

Of course the cylinder has a big advantage in footprint and weight; in this respect we feel the PC-Ultra (indeed the entire powered/passive cylinder line) is an outstanding combination of size/weight, footprint and performance.

I'm sure this sub is great for H/T - and I know that NO ONE can tell me what it sounds like (unless you work at SVS) as it is not released yet. But I would imagine it would be an improvement over the original PC-Ultra (with the new 13 driver).

As good as the former PCU was, anyone who has heard both subs will agree the new PCU is an obvious improvement/upgrade - and that was indeed our primary design goal. It has significantly improved FR and output linearity (especially in the upper bass regions), higher overall max output, lower distortion, better transient response, and the roll-off profile takes better advantage of available room gain.

Thanks Ed for clarifying. I learned something today. :)

Tim

I'm not sure that's the case Buckeye.

While SVS has stated that the new PB13 Ultra box does go a little lower and with a little more output than the new PC13 Ultra tube, there isn't any evidence of that being the case with any of the rest of their current product line.

Any perceived sonic differences between tubes and cubes of similar version SVS subs, (other than the new Ultras, as noted above), will be more readily attributable to setup/placement/calibration of each sub.


Tim

I'd definitely argue that case. After a few hours demoing all the SVS subs in Girard, Ohio (prior to the new Ultra), there was quite a difference IMHO with the boxes compared to the cylinders. I lost count of the CD's and DVD's we went through listening to all these fine subs. If you're ever near northeast Ohio, stop in and check them out. It's an eye (and ear) opening experience. And wait until you see the prototype monster they have in the wharehouse.

Yep, and you'd win that argument too. :o

I'm glad Ed set me straight. I'm sorry to cause confusion.


Tim

I think the subjective differences between the cylinder/box "equivalents" (i.e., 20-39PCi/PB12-NSD, 20-39PC+/PB12+, PCU/PB13U) are fairly minor.

After all, they do share the same respective woofer/amp/vent package and have similar effective enclosure volumes and tuning points. They perform similarly over most of the operating bandwidth, but the boxes do tend to have the edge in interior volume and max output at very deep frequencies. But compared back-to-back on regular source material, each pair of cylinder/box equivalents is much more alike than different.

Thanks for feedback on cylinder vs. box. I decided to order a box unit. I'll deal with the weight when the unit arrives. Thanks everyone!

Hey guys @ SVS -

It's not often that I see folks posting up to just say how pleased they are with their purchase (with anything - not just SVS or speakers) and that everything is going wonderfully....so I thought I'd take some time to do just that.

I bought my SVS about 3 years ago and to this day it's still my absolute favorite component of my setup!! It performs wonderfully for my listening tastes and I absolutley couldn't be happier!

If this puppy ever goes south - I'll definitely be ordering up another one....only bigger!!! My room is not the ideal HT room and it's really oddly shaped and has a LOT of open air to fill and even your smallest tube (pci25-31 I belive) does a more than adequate job and has far surpassed my expectations.

So - to anyone reading this thread or forum that's on the fence about which sub to buy - my vote is for SVS and don't look back!

Anyway - I know I'm a n00b here and my opinion is not of such a technical focus but more "seat of the pants" related - so take it FWIW - but I couldn't be happier!

Last night I set up my second :) :D SB12Plus
I did not calibrate properly Just quick tone from my AVR to get them close .
Does anyone have any tips on set up for 2 subs , like phase and level ?
Right now it is LFE out of my AVR into a Velo SMS-1 Out from the SMS-1 into the SB12+ with a Y conector . L&R out of the first SB12+ into L&R input second.
I can run 3 subs off of the SMS-1
Thanks for any thoughts !
Ahh with no calibration my lows sounded much better -evenly dispersed through the room :)

Last night I set up my second :) :D SB12Plus
I did not calibrate properly Just quick tone from my AVR to get them close .
Does anyone have any tips on set up for 2 subs , like phase and level ?
Right now it is LFE out of my AVR into a Velo SMS-1 Out from the SMS-1 into the SB12+ with a Y conector . L&R out of the first SB12+ into L&R input second.
I can run 3 subs off of the SMS-1
Thanks for any thoughts !
Ahh with no calibration my lows sounded much better -evenly dispersed through the room :)
An SMS-1 takes most of the pain out of it.

It will help you with the levels. Use one sub at a time and match the outputs on the screen. I used unequalized output from the SMS-1 for all this.

For phase, turn on both subs and try slowly adjusting one's phase control while watching the screen, using the setting that gives you the smoothest and/or greatest output (not always the same; I opted for smoothness).

Then redo your EQ.

My subs are different models and are placed in front and rear corners of the room. I was able to get them pretty well matched and re-calibrated in less than a hour. Then I spent the next two weeks tweaking. :rolleyes: Not sure it sounded much better after all that, but I got a prettier response curve on the screen. ;)

Need some help fast. I just got my 22-31 pci the other day and i love it alot but would it be smart to go with the 16-46pci? Would it hit harder or hit the same as the 22-31? My room is small it's 12x10x8 4 closed walls. Thanks

That depends. How loud do you listen? The 16-46 will dig deeper, but the 22-31 has more headroom. Unless you listen at VERY loud levels, my guess is either will play fine in that space.

-Robb

I keep it about half way up.

I'm assuming you mean the gain. Have you calibrated the system with a SPL meter? If so, how much below or above reference do you listen to your system?

Now, if you have not calibrated, and given that you have a small space, my guess is your bass is VERY hot, and that suits your tastes. In that case, you might be best served by the subwoofer with the most headroom.

-Robb

I should add that if you have not calibrated your system with a SPL meter, you should do so. Your whole system will sound better. Also, you will probably find that a more accurately calibrated subwoofer sounds better to you. Or, if you don't find that to be the case, you know how hot you have your system.

-Robb

Rob thanks for your time. It's not a real system it's a yamaha 1100 all in one speaker. I have the gain at 11 oclock the db set to 5+ and i did not use a spl meter. I was just reading about the 20-39 pc+ Sounds like a nice sub. I think i just got bit by the base bug as this is my first H.T kind of. Robb do you have aol if so maybe we can talk about this stuff there? Mine is realm306.

The 16-46 would be exceptional is a space of that size. Once you calibrate it, with an SPL meter, you'll have plenty of headroom. The infrasonic effect would be well worth it.

Tim

iSSues,

I don't have an AOL account, but my email is easy enough to find. :)

As has been said, both can play in that space (and exceptionally well). Without calibrating it's hard to say just how loud and hot you have things. You would have to be VERY loud for the 16-46 to not work well for you. If it were me, I'd get the 16-46 for that space. Again, though, without calibrating, it's hard to know for certain. The educated guess is to get the deeper tuned sub. I'm with Tim on that one (come to think of it, I can't recall a time I disagreed with Tim -- except that I prefer NHRA).

-Robb

You know, the more I think about it, the more I've got to think you should get the 16-46. You don't even have 1,000 cubic feet sealed. I don't know how loud you'd have to get to run out of steam, but it would be obscene. Have you run this by the guys at SVS? They'd know best.

-Robb