The coming PB13-Ultra will be sub #4. The others are a pair of SB12 Plus's and a ported, dual 10" TC-1000 powered by a Behringer EP2500. We'll see if I can make them all play nice together.

My front wall is 15 feet wide with 14 feet of subwoofers behind the screen. I have 6 18 inch woofers all together in a 2300 cubic foot room. I may still try the new ultra, You can never have too much bass, unless of course it drowns out the front stage.

Ed was great, he actually recommended the dual 16+'s over dual Ultras, not many companies talk you into lower priced options ;)
-Gary
Funny, he did the same to me and I have not looked back since I got my +/2. Blends so well and digs deep. I wish I had room for another but these things are huge. Good luck with the setup. I look forward to reading the posts of your impressions.

thanks

will do dude

-Gary

Gary...Ed did the same thing for me too.

Told me to get Dual 16-46+ over the Ultras. Right now I only have a single because of funds but I'm saving hard core to get the 2nd one.

What is your impression of the Duals? It is so great to have an owner of dual 16-46+ to talk to! Feel free to PM me with any questions or comments bro!

bgillyjcu

thanks a bunch, my first unit is arriving tomorrow, the 2nd one hopefully soon

look forward to hearing from you, I will be sure and post my results as soon as everything is together ;)

-Gary

A single 16-46+ in that room should yield some SICK bass. Mine is basically in a 28x12 room and I can hit 107db on scenes like FOTP which is LOW and POWERFUL....I can only imagine what duals will do for me. For you....you will be close to reference pretty easy I'd guess!! :)

Hi Brad,
You will be surprised what dual 16-46PC+ will do, I had one and when I added 2 it was a huge improvement, you will like, I promise.

Got email that my PB13 Ultra shipped Tuesday. Can't wait!

This is a tough one. My room is 23' x 18'. I like in your face bass and like to feel it, period. I wonder if it would be better to buy one Ultra or spring for two of the 16-46PC+'s. :eek:

This is a tough one. My room is 23' x 18'. I like in your face bass and like to feel it, period. I wonder if it would be better to buy one Ultra or spring for two of the 16-46PC+'s. :eek:If I were in your situation, and based on the comments of those that have the PCU, I would get 1 PCU, see how it does. If it doesn't give you all you want, then place it near field and save for a second.

Thanks Randy for your feedback...I should clarify a bit...I was considering SVS's new box - Ultra 13 but then started to read the comments about duel 16-46PC+'s which may be more effective than SVS's new box sub.

I'd go with 2 16-46PC+. If you want to keep it ultra low and have enough headroom for that big room.

I have talked to ED about the same thing, new ultra vs twin 16-46cs+( I will supply amp) and I think the twins would win in spl down low, ED you are needed again. SVS is truly a great company. You can tell when people really like what they do, and they like subwoofers.

Thanks Randy for your feedback...I should clarify a bit...I was considering SVS's new box - Ultra 13 but then started to read the comments about duel 16-46PC+'s which may be more effective than SVS's new box sub.The PCU is the same size as the 16-46+. It would cost a little less than the PBU and is easier to find placement. Your room isn't that large (if it is a closed room at 3312cf), so 1 PCU or PBU should perform quite well. I had a 20-39+ in an 8800 cf, open room and it was almost enough, but I had to upgrade to the +/2 to fill the room. I still used near field placement. I now have my +/2 in a 1500 cf, closed room. Had to turn it down, which is contrary to my hunger for bass.

Any way, you will probably find a single Ultra to be quite a surprise.

If you are actually referring to a pair of 16-46 PCi, than that is a different issue as you can get 2 for about the same price as a single Ultra. I just think the SQ improvement of the Ultra over the PCi would be worth the extra cash. But it's your money and either choice would be good.

Yeah, the reality is that my 4 CS Ultras are truly jaw dropping but they take up a LOT of floorspace. And I really, really need to get better bass treatment in my room :) I love SVS though, they never tried to oversell me on anything and have been outstanding with support. I'd asked about upgrading the drivers in my older Ultra units and they told me honestly not to bother, that I'd never hear the difference.

My single 16-46+ does wonders in my current room.......my friends think I'm crazy for wanting more. But then again I'm a basshead. Dual 16-46+ should take a single PCU...esp from 20hz DOWN!

Plus you could even tune the DUAL 16-46+ to 12hz and really dig DEEP with headroom to spare!

Yeah, the reality is that my 4 CS Ultras are truly jaw dropping but they take up a LOT of floorspace. And I really, really need to get better bass treatment in my room :) I love SVS though, they never tried to oversell me on anything and have been outstanding with support. I'd asked about upgrading the drivers in my older Ultra units and they told me honestly not to bother, that I'd never hear the difference.

Do you live in a concrete bomb shelter? :eek:

I like my dual 20-39plus and pb-10 set up with the pb-10 near field. Really hits well at all levels. Almost feels like if you had a surfboard you could get up and ride the waves :cool:

I think what happens below 16hz SPLwise is at least debatable, as the PCU13 I have digs like an oil rig and hasn't misbehaved at all while putting out more sound you can only feel while moving the air around. Granted, I have it in the 10hz tuning configuration, but it hasn't choked on the SPL at volumes louder than I normally listen, with the most demanding uber low material.

And from a SQ perspective, the new PCU/PBU subs do have a distinct advantage. Particularly in the area of minimal low end ringing.

My $0.02


Tim

Just got my other PB12-NSD from UPS and WOW :D. Will post more after I test some movies out.

I think what happens below 16hz SPLwise is at least debatable, as the PCU13 I have digs like an oil rig and hasn't misbehaved at all while putting out more sound you can only feel while moving the air around. Granted, I have it in the 10hz tuning configuration, but it hasn't choked on the SPL at volumes louder than I normally listen, with the most demanding uber low material.

And from a SQ perspective, the new PCU/PBU subs do have a distinct advantage. Particularly in the area of minimal low end ringing.

My $0.02


TimI think Tim is saying the same thing I am, but he is coming from experience. If you are going to spend $1300 to $1500, get a single Ultra. 3300 cf is not that big. From Tim's own testing, the new Ultra has better mid-bass impact, where you get that kick-in-the-chest sensation, than the Pluses have, and can still hold it's own when asked to dig deep.

Yep. I'm an extension junkie though, so I do sacrifice a bit of the kick in the chest for all of the low end I can possibly get.

Tim

Can I use the low level outputs on the plus to hook up my second sub?

Thanks all for the great input...I appreciate it! I have pretty much decided to go with a new Ultra 13 for my room and if I need to I can always double up and get another one down the line. Ed suggested that an Ultra 13 vs. a PB12+ are fairly similiar and that it may boil down to aesthetics and cost - and that he feels the Plus/2 is a more attractive subwoofer because he likes the down-firing design with the base plate. Personally the PB12+ is attractive but is HUGE, the Ultra 13 looks to be a bit smaller.

the Ultra 13 looks to be a bit smaller.:p ..... geez, that's a pretty rare statement. You really did drink the kool-aid, didn't you? You're gonna fit right in. :D


Tim

who will buy my SVS 16-46pci off me for $450 local pickup

Ryan48, please reply back with how you have your 2 subs setup? Next to each other or separate? Also, what changes can you hear adn feel in the bass response? Obviously louder, but more tactile bass with the 2nd one I assume?

I am looking to put a 2nd 20-39 PC+ in my basement thats 7000cuft and wondering what it's like.

Ryan48, please reply back with how you have your 2 subs setup? Next to each other or separate? Also, what changes can you hear adn feel in the bass response? Obviously louder, but more tactile bass with the 2nd one I assume?

I am looking to put a 2nd 20-39 PC+ in my basement thats 7000cuft and wondering what it's like.

I have them stacked, Its sounds alot different now with the 2nd sub added, Its a little bit louder but now I can really feel the bass and my whole bedroom shakes :p. The low stuff is insane, I cant hear anything but I sure do feel it.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2250/wallofsvsoo1.th.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wallofsvsoo1.jpg)

Can I use the low level outputs on the plus to hook up my second sub?

Both the low level and high level outputs on SVS subs are high pass filtered, I believe at 100Hz, so that one can implement a sub/sat system crossover either with a speaker level connection or with a low level connection back to power amp channels for the mains.

To connect multiple subs simply use Y-connectors. A Y-connector with a single male connector and two female ended branches connected to an input jack on the sub nearest your receiver, with one branch connected to a cable from your receiver and the other connected to a cable to the other sub, minimizes the cable lengths you need as effectively as using the low level outputs would.

SVS has added a switch to the new Ultra plate amps allowing the low level outputs to be either filtered or unfiltered.

who will buy my SVS 16-46pci off me for $450 local pickup

where r u located?:confused:

got my first 16+ today, my oh my SVS sure is nice all the way around, I ordered a B-stock unit and it is the same as brand new, packaging was killer, sadly I can't use it yet or try it out because I have no pre-amp at this time, really really impressed with the build and service though

one suggestion I gave to SVS in their survey sent to me was that they need to add 12v triggers to all future subs, I don't like auto sensing circuits and I don't like leaving subs on all the time, so I made some custom 12v trigger controlled outlets for this purpose, it would be nice to have those though

-Gary

one suggestion I gave to SVS in their survey sent to me was that they need to add 12v triggers to all future subs, I don't like auto sensing circuits and I don't like leaving subs on all the time, so I made some custom 12v trigger controlled outlets for this purpose, it would be nice to have those though-Gary

The auto on in my +/2 and the 20-39+ before it have never failed to work. YMMV.

My Ultra-13 in oak is due here Friday. Look for some direct comparisons to the Fathom-113 and the Def Tech Trinity ($2600 and $2200 street price, respectively) over the next few days.

Shipping weight was specified @ 166 pounds.

My Ultra-13 in oak is due here Friday. Look for some direct comparisons to the Fathom-113 and the Def Tech Trinity ($2600 and $2200 street price, respectively) over the next few days.

Shipping weight was specified @ 166 pounds.

Hi-

I'm looking forward to your impressions. Do you still have the Jazz CD? This monster can dance.:D

Tweako - I still have it, thanks again. This is going to be a lot of fun, for sure.

Hey Dual SVS guys: Post some more of your setup/results in this thread please...

I now have 2 of my four tuned to 12hz, the other 2 are waiting on some more port plugs that the guys at SVS very nicely are sending me :) Watched Band of Brothers HD DVDs last night... wowsers. In the second episode when they are taking flak over the drop zone it was just pounding me in the chest. And later when they are under artillary shelling in Bastogne... so nice! I still need some better bass treatment (and perhaps some structural reinforcement of my ceiling joists!) but you can see my smile a mile away.

Yeah, the reality is that my 4 CS Ultras are truly jaw dropping but they take up a LOT of floorspace. And I really, really need to get better bass treatment in my room :) I love SVS though, they never tried to oversell me on anything and have been outstanding with support. I'd asked about upgrading the drivers in my older Ultra units and they told me honestly not to bother, that I'd never hear the difference.

Give GIK acoustics a look. I have their tri-traps (corner traps) and I feel they work very well.

Watched Bad Boys 2 this past weekend and my PB12-NSD rocked, I didnt realize that movie had so many good action scenes in it. I love it when Martin Lawrence shoots his machine gun when they are raiding the dude's house in Cuba, it shakes my couch just right. Had my sub for about 2 months now an no problems, nothing but pure awesomeness. I love it when people see my system and they are like "Whats SVS?" Then I give them a demo and they want a SVS speaker system.

I now have 2 of my four tuned to 12hz, the other 2 are waiting on some more port plugs that the guys at SVS very nicely are sending me :) Watched Band of Brothers HD DVDs last night... wowsers. In the second episode when they are taking flak over the drop zone it was just pounding me in the chest. And later when they are under artillary shelling in Bastogne... so nice! I still need some better bass treatment (and perhaps some structural reinforcement of my ceiling joists!) but you can see my smile a mile away.
BoB HD-DVDs! you suck :(

-Gary

I now have 2 of my four tuned to 12hz, the other 2 are waiting on some more port plugs that the guys at SVS very nicely are sending me :) Watched Band of Brothers HD DVDs last night... wowsers. In the second episode when they are taking flak over the drop zone it was just pounding me in the chest. And later when they are under artillary shelling in Bastogne... so nice! I still need some better bass treatment (and perhaps some structural reinforcement of my ceiling joists!) but you can see my smile a mile away.



what do you have 4 of? 16-46+???

how big of a room?

Just received my Rosenut PB13-Ultra. I first passed calibrated it today and will do some beast testing tomorrow. Looks awesome!!

Just received my Rosenut PB13-Ultra. I first passed calibrated it today and will do some beast testing tomorrow. Looks awesome!!

Where are you located?

Where are you located?

Fort Lauderdale, FL

Can't wait to hear your first hand report on your new PB13...I am waiting for my textured black unit to ship early next week. Have you any experience with other SVS product? I had a PB12Plus/2 which was quite powerful. I'm hoping that the new PB13 Ultra will be that much more in your face so to speak!

A few pictures of the new Ultra wouldn't hurt. :cool:

I second that request....pictures please!!

what do you have 4 of? 16-46+???

how big of a room?

Nope. 4 CS Ultras :) About 2300cf.

Both the low level and high level outputs on SVS subs are high pass filtered, I believe at 100Hz, so that one can implement a sub/sat system crossover either with a speaker level connection or with a low level connection back to power amp channels for the mains.

To connect multiple subs simply use Y-connectors. A Y-connector with a single male connector and two female ended branches connected to an input jack on the sub nearest your receiver, with one branch connected to a cable from your receiver and the other connected to a cable to the other sub, minimizes the cable lengths you need as effectively as using the low level outputs would.

SVS has added a switch to the new Ultra plate amps allowing the low level outputs to be either filtered or unfiltered.

Man I wish I could understand what you are saying here. Ed said something similar when I had a C13U for a couple days. I have the sub out on the reciever filtered at 100hz into the plus, then the low level out to my next sub. Seems to work fine. Should I not be doing this? i don't understand when you say "Both the low level and high level outputs on SVS subs are high pass filtered," Can you explain does that mean 100hz and above go out or 100hz and below go out. I think I understand, but if only 100hz and below is going into the plus then there is no way for 100hz and above to go out of the plus. In the manual it says "If you are
using a conventional amp and/or a stereo setup you can use the “Line Out” jacks to
send sound (filtered of bass information) back to your system amp."

Is stereo setup refering to dual subs?

Confused because it works. :confused:

A 'high pass' filter section allows signal above the 'hinge' frequency to pass -- so a 100 Hz high pass allows frequencies above 100 Hz to pass, and blocks frequencies below that.

Such filters are not brick walls, but attenuate frequencies more and more the farther they are from the hinge frequency. So some signal below 100 Hz is getting to your second sub -- but it would get even more, especially down low, if you would just use a Y connector to connect cable directly to the inputs of both subs.

The RCA connector you need can be something as inexpensive as this:
http://www.impactacoustics.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=108&sku=40650

Not sure what your question is about 'stereo connection'. If this is out of the manual, it's probably referring to a connection method for folks who do not have a dedicated sub-out jack on their receivers -- they may have small equipment that only has L and R signal output jacks, or only speaker wire connections. These folks are why the output jacks on the SVS plate amps are high pass filtered, so they can connect both left and right full range signals to the sub, and pull signal with the low bass filtered out that's safe for small speakers from the output jacks, while the sub takes the deep bass for itself.

Keep asking if you need more, interactive communication via internet posting is less than perfect ;)

Can't seem to find where to buy these subs, anyone throw me a link please?
Was interested in the PB 10 or PB 12.

Can't seem to find where to buy these subs, anyone throw me a link please?
Was interested in the PB 10 or PB 12.

http://www.svsound.com/

So only direct then, no wholesalers or any discount stores.
As good as I think they may be for the price? I am a quality HT newbie.

As good as I think they may be for the price? I am a quality HT newbie.

This sounds really weird, and you might want to clarify what you are saying.

Michael

Hi-

I changed the name of the thread where I posted my intial comparison to be just the SVS Ultra 13 thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11401913) and broadened the context so more people can post their PB observations.
:D
:D

A 'high pass' filter section allows signal above the 'hinge' frequency to pass -- so a 100 Hz high pass allows frequencies above 100 Hz to pass, and blocks frequencies below that.

Such filters are not brick walls, but attenuate frequencies more and more the farther they are from the hinge frequency. So some signal below 100 Hz is getting to your second sub -- but it would get even more, especially down low, if you would just use a Y connector to connect cable directly to the inputs of both subs.

Ok, thanks for helping out. I do understand that now, and it was part of my concern. Just bought the plug!

I remember reading once that dual subs are called "stereo sub config" but it seems odd to call them stereo if they play the same signal? Like some receivers have dual sub outs for what I think is called stereo subwoofers. Not sure.

I also think that I noticed the second sub being quieter, which would make sense based off your info. thanks again.

stereo - designating sound transmission from two sources through two channels:o


Ok, thanks for helping out. I do understand that now, and it was part of my concern. Just bought the plug!

I remember reading once that dual subs are called "stereo sub config" but it seems odd to call them stereo if they play the same signal? Like some receivers have dual sub outs for what I think is called stereo subwoofers. Not sure.

I also think that I noticed the second sub being quieter, which would make sense based off your info. thanks again.

A few pictures of the new Ultra wouldn't hurt. :cool:

New pic's for my Rosenut PB13 Ultra. Enjoy.

I set the sub ref level at 82 (Nominal 75). The gain is set at 3 out of 8. The sub shook my whole house during the matrix revolutions scene at the end where Mr. Smith is posing in the air with lightening bolts coming out of his back like dragon wings. Major LFE I've never heard before. I bet ya I can get the recessed lighting fixtures to fall out of the ceiling if I repeat this scene enough times. LOL. Of course, I'm doing this while my wife is at work.

BTW Bax Global shipped the unit from Ohio to Florida in 2 days. Perfect condition. Fantastic.

. . . I remember reading once that dual subs are called "stereo sub config" but it seems odd to call them stereo if they play the same signal? Like some receivers have dual sub outs for what I think is called stereo subwoofers. . . .

"Stereo subs" has become a euphonism for any left side - right side dual sub setup -- I catch myself sometimes saying 'stereo subs' when what I mean is ' left side / right side dual mono subs'.

Still, there is some truth to the misnomer -- 'stereo' means 'solid' and refers to the generation of a broad sound field from multiple signal locations, and L/R dual mono subs are often credited with subjectively broadening and solidifying the sound field -- how much this happens depends on the crossover frequency, the location of subs and mains, and the node and reflectance patterns in the room (at least).

Real stereo subs, one sub for each main speaker with the full range signal for each channel split between the main speaker and sub with an external x-o (at this level you would probably want a tunable extenal x-o rather than use the built in ones on the sub plate amps) can be great for advanced 2 channel setups although ideal sub placement and main speaker placement are often not the same. A more important problem is that most bass tracks do not maintain enough separation in the recording process to make splitting the signal below 80Hz worthwhile for most folks.

When true stereo subs are implemented in home theater, as part of an overall redo of the multi-channel bass management built in to most receivers, the result is called "direct and re-directed bass". Search this forum (probably in the Archives by now) for this topic, especially posts by Bosso :)

Can't wait to hear your first hand report on your new PB13...I am waiting for my textured black unit to ship early next week. Have you any experience with other SVS product? I had a PB12Plus/2 which was quite powerful. I'm hoping that the new PB13 Ultra will be that much more in your face so to speak!

This is my first major league sub-woofer. I had Techniques (100watt) and Bix (160watt) before.

This sounds really weird, and you might want to clarify what you are saying.

Michael


Just asking if they are worth their price?

Eagles, asking if a product is worth the money in it's owner support thread is perhaps not the best way to get objective answers :)

If you research this in the various audio forums, you'll find that many people do think that the PB10-NSD and PB12-NSD are good values.

I suggest you keep reading and asking questions online before you buy a sub; that way you are much more likely to get a sub that fits your room size, program material, and budget.

Did anyone here go from the original 12.1 driver to the newer 12.3 in the Plus series? I bought a 20-39CS+ back when they first came out, so it has the original 12.1 driver and I'm just wondering if it's worth the upgrade.

Jeremy, this thread discusses the 12.2 to 12.3 upgrade.
http://www.hometheaterspot.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/131409/all/1/

I have just puchased and am in the process of calibrating my SVS 20-39 PCI cylinder.
I need a lot of handholding. My receiver, which I also just purchased, allows me to set crossover frequencies for each speaker. I have set up a 7.1 system. The crossover frequencies available to me are: Full Band, 40 Hz, 50Hz, 60Hz, 70 Hz, 80 Hz (THX), 90 Hz, 100 Hz, 120 Hz, 150 Hz, or 200 Hz. My receiver is an Onkyo TX SR 705 and it is THX select 2 certified.

My room is smallish at 16'X12'X7.5'

My current speakers are:
Klipsch Cornwall IIs for the fronts. Their frequency response is 37Hz to 20Khz with a sensitivity of 102 dB.
My center speaker is a Paradigm CC-100 with a low frequency extension of 70 Hz and a frequency response of +/- 2 dB from 100 Hz -20KHz,
My four surrounds (sides and backs) are Klipsch SS-1s as near as I can tell their frequency response is 83 Hz-23kHz with a 91 dB sensitivity.

First of all I have no idea what all of those numbers mean. I hope that I have included enough information for someone to tell me how to calibrate the sub and what crossover settings I should use on the receive. I tried using the Audessy set up but I don't think it was very accurate.

Also could someone explain volume settings? they seem to gor from negative numbers to positive numbers (-12dB to 81db) but I have no idea why or what they mean. Sorry for being such a newbie. I am cross posting this to the Amps. Receiver forum. Thanks in advance.

I have just puchased and am in the process of calibrating my SVS 20-39 PCI cylinder.
I need a lot of handholding. My receiver, which I also just purchased, allows me to set crossover frequencies for each speaker. I have set up a 7.1 system. The crossover frequencies available to me are: Full Band, 40 Hz, 50Hz, 60Hz, 70 Hz, 80 Hz (THX), 90 Hz, 100 Hz, 120 Hz, 150 Hz, or 200 Hz. My receiver is an Onkyo TX SR 705 and it is THX select 2 certified.

My room is smallish at 16'X12'X7.5'

My current speakers are:
Klipsch Cornwall IIs for the fronts. Their frequency response is 37Hz to 20Khz with a sensitivity of 102 dB.
My center speaker is a Paradigm CC-100 with a low frequency extension of 70 Hz and a frequency response of +/- 2 dB from 100 Hz -20KHz,
My four surrounds (sides and backs) are Klipsch SS-1s as near as I can tell their frequency response is 83 Hz-23kHz with a 91 dB sensitivity.

First of all I have no idea what all of those numbers mean. I hope that I have included enough information for someone to tell me how to calibrate the sub and what crossover settings I should use on the receive. I tried using the Audessy set up but I don't think it was very accurate.

Also could someone explain volume settings? they seem to gor from negative numbers to positive numbers (-12dB to 81db) but I have no idea why or what they mean. Sorry for being such a newbie. I am cross posting this to the Amps. Receiver forum. Thanks in advance.

The manual usually has an explanation for proper calibration of your HT system.

Check out: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/speaker-setup-guidelines/
This is quite a useful site for tips and explanations.

Interesting analysis from SVS:

Hi guys,

Based on JL's own measurements of the F113...a single PB13Ultra will match or exceed its output capabilities. Both will have exceptional *SQ*. The advantage for the JL is its smaller size and auto-EQ. The SVS is less than half the price and has some cool features of its own(PEQ, Room comp,ect).

Tom V.
SVS Sound

The manual usually has an explanation for proper calibration of your HT system.

Check out: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/speaker-setup-guidelines/
This is quite a useful site for tips and explanations.
Thank you for the help.

Thank you for the help.

heres some info on SVS's site:

http://www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm#meter

and check out the "101" in my sig and look under "Subwoofer Setup and Placement" along with other speaker setup topics.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10118822#post10118822

Re:Stereo subs.

Thanks, ggunnel good explaination. Got my splitter and additional sub cable...now I can relax...back to shaking the house.

I just got off the phone with Erik from SVS sales, PB12-NSD/2 is on its way to my HT!!! wooohooo , Cant wait for this beast to arrive

Can anybody recommend any subwoofer test tone CD's?

Thanks,
Chad

Can anybody recommend any subwoofer test tone CD's?

Thanks,
Chad

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10118822#post10118822

check near the bottom under

Test Tones

Realm Of Excursion (Download Section)
RealTraps - Test Tone CD
Bink Audio Test CD
Rives Audio Test CD 2
Stay in Tune with PentaTone

Can anybody recommend any subwoofer test tone CD's?

Thanks,
Chad

There's also RoomEQ Wizard which with the right bits and pieces can do a full frequency sweep and show your room response graph.
It can be found at http://www.hometheatershack.com/


Mitch

Thanks Dr pain md and Mitche G. I will take a look at those.

Can anybody recommend any subwoofer test tone CD's?

Thanks,
Chad

You can just get a tone generator program that outputs WAV files and then burn your own. I actually made myself one for that purpose in about 15 minutes, and also encoded the tones to both the left main and LFE channels on a DTS CD (which took a bit longer than 15 minutes).

OK guys...want to buy a sub today and was looking at the PB12-NSD. But before I buy do you think this will fill my room. It is 17' wide x 9' ceiling x 19.5' long for the living room but is TOTALLY open in the back to the kitchen another 23'. So the total room is 17' x 42'. Do you think this will be capable of filling that room? I don't need HUGE bass(ie don't need the PBUltra) But will the 12 be OK or will the 10 do the job? Thanks

And yes...I did email tech support at SVS with a room dimension layout and got no response. I will be running a Pio Elite 92, DT Mythos Fours, DT Mythos Three Center, and Polk TCi 6.5" surrounds(yeah, I know...in-ceilings aren't the best choice but it is my ONLY option due to room config.)

OK guys...want to buy a sub today and was looking at the PB12-NSD. But before I buy do you think this will fill my room. It is 17' wide x 9' ceiling x 19.5' long for the living room but is TOTALLY open in the back to the kitchen another 23'. So the total room is 17' x 42'. Do you think this will be capable of filling that room? I don't need HUGE bass(ie don't need the PBUltra) But will the 12 be OK or will the 10 do the job? Thanks

And yes...I did email tech support at SVS with a room dimension layout and got no response. I will be running a Pio Elite 92, DT Mythos Fours, DT Mythos Three Center, and Polk TCi 6.5" surrounds(yeah, I know...in-ceilings aren't the best choice but it is my ONLY option due to room config.)

You will deff need the 12 inch. I might go as far as you might need the 12 with 2 drivers in it.

I too was going to get the PB12-NSD but the WAF was swinging way in the wrong direction based on how much real estate it was going to take. I called and SVS and they mentioned that a cylinder may work for me and recommended a 20-39 PC+. It is quite a bit more so I want to make sure it is worth it. Anyone have experience? Thanks.

- Bill

I too was going to get the PB12-NSD but the WAF was swinging way in the wrong direction based on how much real estate it was going to take. I called and SVS and they mentioned that a cylinder may work for me and recommended a 20-39 PC+. It is quite a bit more so I want to make sure it is worth it. Anyone have experience? Thanks.

- Bill

Experience with what? A 20-39PC+ Cylinder? Yes, it is what I have in my 7000cu ft basement. I love it, great bass output, clean and deep. I do want to add another one for my size room though, but most people would be just fine with it;)
We really need you to describe your room and it's size for us to help ya.

Experience with what? A 20-39PC+ Cylinder? Yes, it is what I have in my 7000cu ft basement. I love it, great bass output, clean and deep. I do want to add another one for my size room though, but most people would be just fine with it;)
We really need you to describe your room and it's size for us to help ya.

Sorry...I forgot I had started this discussion on a different thread. :) Yes I was asking about the 20-39 PC+. My LR is 15x19 with vaulted ceilings maxing out at 12'. It totals around 3500 cubic feet. Adding to the complexities is that one side opens to the kitchen (~1400 cubic foot). There is a bar for most of that opening that blocks about half of the open space. I will be hooked up to a HK 247 with DefTech BP8Bs. CLR 2002, and BPX surrounds.

Sorry...I forgot I had started this discussion on a different thread. :) Yes I was asking about the 20-39 PC+. My LR is 15x19 with vaulted ceilings maxing out at 12'. It totals around 3500 cubic feet. Adding to the complexities is that one side opens to the kitchen (~1400 cubic foot). There is a bar for most of that opening that blocks about half of the open space. I will be hooked up to a KK 247 with DefTech BP8Bs. CLR 2002, and BPX surrounds.


Thats ok:) Anyways, I would venture to say you'd be good with the PC+. It really is a great sub.

You will deff need the 12 inch. I might go as far as you might need the 12 with 2 drivers in it.

Well NismoZ, you were right. I called up SVS and they said that I would probably need the PB-12NSD/2. Gotta go home and do some measurements and see how the wifey reacts to something THAT big. I can't remember who posted pics of theres, but I remember it being HUGE! Good thing it'll be kind of hidden by the couch in the corner.

And yes...I did email tech support at SVS with a room dimension layout and got no response.

While it looks like you worked things out with the Sales phone line, we try to maintain a 24 hour or shorter (often much shorter) response time. Did you receive a response from tech support? Sometimes customers use the wrong email address, so double check that too. If you need anything else, please email me at Sales or Tech Support (I work both boxes) and I'll answer your question right away. Thanks!

While it looks like you worked things out with the Sales phone line, we try to maintain a 24 hour or shorter (often much shorter) response time. Did you receive a response from tech support? Sometimes customers use the wrong email address, so double check that too. If you need anything else, please email me at Sales or Tech Support (I work both boxes) and I'll answer your question right away. Thanks!


Ed, thanks for the response! No, I never got a response to my question and room layout. I double checked the email and it was right. It's OK tho, I put in my order for my PB-12NSD/2 today after discussing with Eric(k) on the phone!!! Now just need to find some darn 1.3a HDMI cables for cheap since Monoprice is on BO for who knows how long. :rolleyes:

Ed, thanks for the response! No, I never got a response to my question and room layout. I double checked the email and it was right. It's OK tho, I put in my order for my PB-12NSD/2 today after discussing with Eric(k) on the phone!!! Now just need to find some darn 1.3a HDMI cables for cheap since Monoprice is on BO for who knows how long. :rolleyes:


Thanks - I saw your order go through. We'll check our SPAM filters to see if your note got caught-up in there.

Ed,

I still can not decide on the Plus/2 or the PB13, can you stack the PB13's on each other.

Michael

Ed,

I still can not decide on the Plus/2 or the PB13, can you stack the PB13's on each other.

Michael

Well, how much money do you have? Thats what it comes down to. The Plus/2 is a really good value for what you get. The PB13 would be great as well, but it offers only 1 driver for more money then the Plus/2. If you have alot of money to sock at your theater, just get 1 PB13 now. If you decide you need more in 1 year or so, get a 2nd. Thats the $$$$ way though... If you want a great bargain, get the Plus/2. You can always add another Plus/2 as well :)

Well, how much money do you have? Thats what it comes down to. The Plus/2 is a really good value for what you get. The PB13 would be great as well, but it offers only 1 driver for more money then the Plus/2. If you have alot of money to sock at your theater, just get 1 PB13 now. If you decide you need more in 1 year or so, get a 2nd. Thats the $$$$ way though... If you want a great bargain, get the Plus/2. You can always add another Plus/2 as well :)

It isn't about the money, and I would be buying two of each to start. It is about output to me. Coming from a JL F113, I am not happy with.

Then I bet you'd be happy with 2 PB13s, and if that is a problem, I bet there is a way to wire up 3 of em;)

Then I bet you'd be happy with 2 PB13s, and if that is a problem, I bet there is a way to wire up 3 of em;)

I also figure it would be easier to sell them, then it would be the Plus/2.

A 20-39PC+ Cylinder? Yes, it is what I have in my 7000cu ft basement. I love it, great bass output, clean and deep. I do want to add another one for my size room though, but most people would be just fine with it;)
.

Thats my basement size and same sub, your right, any normal person would be fine...but I brought down my pb 10 to really put it over the limit. I couldn't see even myself needing much more.

There is quite a bit of a price difference between the 20-39 PCi and the 20-39 PC+. I was curious if anyone had experience with both of them and whether you thought the extra $$$ was worth it? Thanks.

- Bill

There is quite a bit of a price difference between the 20-39 PCi and the 20-39 PC+. I was curious if anyone had experience with both of them and whether you thought the extra $$$ was worth it? Thanks.

- Bill


More amps, and a better driver. PC+ will play with a bit more headroom, there the PC would start to distort. I think it's worth it, especially for a medium-large room.

Placed an order for two PB13 Ultra's today.

Michael

nice Michael ;)

-Gary

Placed an order for two PB13 Ultra's today.

Michael

Holy Smokes! You have to let me and Curtis hear those when you get them! :D

Anyone notice that SVS website, was developed by a company named Fathom.

Just ordered my SVS PB10-NSD this morning! Can't wait!:)

hey guys

Just a quick question, has anyone purchased SVS cable for your subs?
I just wondering about the quality and performance compare to Monoprice cheapo cables, because I am seriously considering change to better cables.

thanks in advance

I'll put in a guess the PB13 will start to make SVS even more common in the audio world. Hopefully this isn't going to affect their pricing.:confused:

hey guys

Just a quick question, has anyone purchased SVS cable for your subs?
I just wondering about the quality and performance compare to Monoprice cheapo cables, because I am seriously considering change to better cables.

thanks in advance

SVS cables are from Bettercables.com. They are good cables whether you get them from SVS or order direct. Blue Jean cables also has nice cables for low prices.

Bill3508

hey guys

Just a quick question, has anyone purchased SVS cable for your subs?
I just wondering about the quality and performance compare to Monoprice cheapo cables, because I am seriously considering change to better cables.

thanks in advance

I purchased one when I did the Plus/2 it was a great price, and a good cable. You save some dollars when you buy at the same time, compared to going direct to Bettercables.com

Michael

http://www.cnet.com/8301-13645_1-9771219-47.html?tag=cnetfd.blogs.item

http://www.cnet.com/8301-13645_1-9771208-47.html?tag=recentPosts

I have had the PB10-ISD for several years but wish I could get more lower bass without having to play at reference levels, I like about 10 to 15 db. below that. I may need something bigger as my room is about 2300 cu. ft. and have one open hall going to bedrooms, and another opening leading into kitchen. I set about 12 ft. from the PB10 and 20hz and above seems pretty good not great, and from 17hz to 22hz show only 72db. on my meter. I can put by ear up to the sub and hear it but don't do many any good where it's at and I can't move it because of space. Anyone give me a clue what SVS sub would get me down to the lower end so I could hear it without having to turn it up to reference level and blow my house apart.After a few weeks of reading this forum and consulting with SVS. I decided to set up my PB10 with a new Velodyne SMS-1 and that made a big improvement but was still not totally satisfied. I read many reviews and threads on the 20-39 and seemed like what would work for me! Got a new 20-39 PC+ today, this thing does just what I was hoping it would, I don't have to have volume near reference level to get the bass I was wanting. I ended up using the 16hz tune with the port block and with the Velodyne SMS-1 EQ and have it very flat for my room gain. It's just the way I wanted it to sound and better than the PB10, though not by leaps and bounds but enough difference to put a smile on my face whenever I play demos for testing. Thanks a lot, you folks at SVS make great products. And now off to enjoy the new sub woofer!

My PB 10 arrived last night. It was supposed to be shipped to my work address but it was shipped to my home address. Good thing I have an SVU. It was really well paked. It was double boxed with styrofoam corner pices between the two boxes.

How does it sound? In a word "FANTASTIC"! I tested a dvd audio disc that has a 16Hz tone and I could feel it. My living room is 13ft wide by 19ft long and I have a dorrway that opens to a stairway and another doorway that goes into a dining room. The room is untreated with wood floors and plaster walls. With the Lord of the Rings it makes the furniture and floor vibrate. Later I will calibrate it more after the wife is gone because she hates the sonds of the pink noise.

Oh yeah remeber if you have pets you may want to watch how loud you play movies. My Yorkie left the room with his ears down.

finally got my second 16+ on the way, I was sweatin down that B-stock and when it hit 879$ I couldn't resist :D

the single 16+ is mighty impressive already, shaking my couch and chairs more than buttkickers :eek: this is with it on a Gramma ;)

-Gary

Oh yeah remeber if you have pets you may want to watch how loud you play movies. My Yorkie left the room with his ears down.

It doesn't seem to bother my cats in the slightest.

http://www.robbroy.net/images/ht/forumphotos/catonspeaker.jpg

-Robb

It doesn't seem to bother my cats in the slightest.

http://www.robbroy.net/images/ht/forumphotos/catonspeaker.jpg

-Robb

Lol.. thats because your cat is deaf already :)

Lol.. thats because your cat is deaf already :)

Trust me, that cat can hear a food bag rustle from a mile away!

-Robb

I've got 4 cats, when the wife's away 3 of them will surround me on the couch to watch/listen to concerts at volume. I use them as my drum set. They enjoy it and stay for the whole show. They aren't really movie fans though.

Ron I have the same thing.. We have to cats an they seem to love high levels of music. My one cat Raja likes to watch movies like 8 Below he sits on the chair next to me in the theater.

Anyone have or compared a Pb12 nsd to a Pb12+ ? Much difference in sq with music& lows for ht ?

Anyone have or compared a Pb12 nsd to a Pb12+ ? Much difference in sq with music& lows for ht ?

I have both, and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between the two under normal/moderate conditions. Yes, the Plus is superior, but it is a case of diminishing returns. In addition to the increased headroom, the Plus has more flexibility, and comes in nice wood finishes.

-Robb

robbroy
Thanks for the description. So there isn't a noticeable advantage in sq with music between the 2?

Well I put a towel on the top of the sub so the cats wouldn't scratch it up. We have 3 and they are already making themselves at home on it. The sub doesn't bother them when it is working. The Yorkie hates loud noises and to be fair to him I was listening to one of the battle sceens in the Lord of the Rings movie.

Received my PB-12/NSD today and all I can say is WOW it's big. It came to my office and all the people were like "what the he** did you get for your car now that is THAT big? A new engine?" I get a lot of parts for my Audi I track and such, but nope this big ol box is my new HT sub! It's is a beautiful piece and comes VERY well packed! Had to take it out of the box tho to fit it in the Avant(yeah, it's an Audi wagon).

Now, just need to go pick up my Pio Elite 92 tonight at BB and I'm golden! 7.1 setup will have to wait as my other two rears come tomorrow and I have to do some "custom" installation of the wires to get them in the ceiling, then have to build some shelves in the niche to hold the center channel and receiver! So excited!

I'll definately leave some feedback when it's all hooked up. Just wish there was someone near me that would come over and tune my system. I'm quite the noob at it! :o

I cannot contain my excitement as I ordered my 20-39 PC+ today and I cannot wait to start knocking pictures off the wall. :)

- Bill

I've been needing to upgrade my old sub for a few years now.

I didn't know anything about SVS before yesterday. I called and talked to Ed and he spent a lot of time with me and I settled on a PB12 plus. He said they are going on overstock sale tomorrow and gave me the discounted price since it won't ship until the sale is officially on anyhow.

I was looking at the b&m brands and almost bought a unit off ebay but I'm hoping I did better getting the SVS. Can't wait to try it out.

I was looking at the b&m brands and almost bought a unit off ebay but I'm hoping I did better getting the SVS.

YES.. you did way better.. SVS is great. you won't be disappointed.. Enjoy your sub. Dont forget to post pics when it arrives... :)

For the price, you certainly did, wb5. If you've never heard an SVS, I think you'll be in for a REAL treat. You've likely never heard subs of this caliber before!

Welcome to the club!

All PB-13 Ultra owners should look at Craigsub's most recent rankings. The PB-13 Ultra scored an astonishing 109 points! The highest ranking sub to date.

All PB-13 Ultra owners should look at Craigsub's most recent rankings. The PB-13 Ultra scored an astonishing 109 points! The highest ranking sub to date.


I just read that and am in Heaven, as I sold my JL to buy two PB13 Ultra's, that should be to there new home on Wednesday.

Ironmike86,

I apologize that I missed your follow up question. I would say the Plus is better, but at moderate volumes it would not be night and day. At higher volumes the Plus would start to pull away.

-Robb

Thanks for the positive feedback guys. Kinda made me nervous to buy something in that price range having never seen or heard one and never even hearing the brand name before. I am somewhat comforted by the enthusiasm from SVS sub owners.
Been doing a lot of reading in the last couple days and from talking with Ed it appears the set up and location procedures are somewhat important. I ordered one of the sound level meters from SVS also so I'll have that to play with too.

I may need you guys to coach me through this when the time comes.

Thanks again,
Tom

We're here for you Tom.

Hey guys and gals, I need to know what you guys think. I just go a SVS PC 12 plus for my living room. The room dimensions are about 19x10x9. Now I see Craigsubs new rankings with the PB13 ultra being the new king of the hill. Is it worth it to trade up to the PC13? I'd probably get th PC 13 for the price, weight, and space concerns. I don't think I actually need more power cause the PC 12 plus, I can barely turn it to half way before I chicken out. Now would the PC 13 ultra be more "musical"? Better quality bass? More db's down low? Would I actually notice any of this? What do you guys think? Is it worth it?

The PC13 Ultra will be better in all of the ways you mentioned and I believe you would hear the difference, but it's tough to say whether it would be worth it to you. How picky are you about your bass? If you consider yourself are picky, it will be worth it.

There is no such thing as SVS PC 12 Plus. What do you mean?

... Now would the PC 13 ultra be more "musical"? Better quality bass? More db's down low? Would I actually notice any of this? What do you guys think? Is it worth it?Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. If you're still in your 45 day trial period with the Plus, trade up to the PC13 Ultra. Yes.

Tim

Sorry, 20-39PC-Plus Cylinder Subwoofer.

Now, I went from a old Sony dual 8" sub to the PC plus, and it was like WOW!!! Will it be the same WOW!!! from the plus to the ultra 13? Or would my money be better spent on say a new receiver? I have an older Denon AVR 2700 and would like to step up to maybe something from Rotel or Arcam.
What do you think?

There is no such thing as SVS PC 12 Plus. What do you mean?

Do you spend all day, every day, reading through posts, looking for ways to nit pick at people ?

SVS has a series called the PC-Plus. They all used a 12 inch woofer.

It is not too hard to figure he has one of the three PC-Plus with the 12 inch woofer ... :rolleyes:

I just go a SVS PC 12 plus for my living room. The room dimensions are about 19x10x9....Is it worth it to trade up to the PC13?

jtimmmy .. yes, it is well worth the upgrade. :)

Do you spend all day, every day, reading through posts, looking for ways to nit pick at people ?

SVS has a series called the PC-Plus. They all used a 12 inch woofer.

It is not too hard to figure he has one of the three PC-Plus with the 12 inch woofer ... :rolleyes:

Relax, it was a friendly question. It could have been the PB12-Plus or the 20-39PC-Plus... :)

jtimmmy, yes there is a difference and you would most probably notice it.

Argh, now I have to find the money and tell my wife the thing is 6" taller. This may not go too well.

Craigsub, now that you've tested the PB13 ultra, do you think or know if there is a big difference between it and the cylinder / PC13 version of the SVS? If so, what?

Thanks again.

Argh, now I have to find the money and tell my wife the thing is 6" taller. This may not go too well.

Craigsub, now that you've tested the PB13 ultra, do you think or know if there is a big difference between it and the cylinder / PC13 version of the SVS? If so, what?

Thanks again.

There may be a slight difference, but not much. I doubt any difference is audible. There IS a "B" stock cylinder on their site now for $1299.

There IS a "B" stock cylinder on their site now for $1299.

There is a B-stock Model PB13-Ultra-Rosenut for $1399 too.

Sorry, 20-39PC-Plus Cylinder Subwoofer.

Now, I went from a old Sony dual 8" sub to the PC plus, and it was like WOW!!! Will it be the same WOW!!! from the plus to the ultra 13? Or would my money be better spent on say a new receiver? I have an older Denon AVR 2700 and would like to step up to maybe something from Rotel or Arcam.
What do you think?

Jtimmy,

I'm probably speaking out of turn here because I've never heard the new Ultra, but I think a word of caution is in order. Yes you will get deeper, more accurate bass with more headroom with the Ultra, and yes, you'll probably notice the difference. Whether or not it is worth it is very subjective. I'm the kind of person who does feel it is worth a premium for better quality sound, and it seems you are, too. That "WOW" factor, though, likely won't be as high moving from a 20-39 PC-Plus to the PC13-Ultra as it was going from your 8" Sony to the 20-39 PC-Plus. I just didn't want to see you psych yourself up for a difference that may not be as great as you're imagining. Like I said, however, I have never heard the new Ultra line, so maybe it IS that much better!

-Robb

Thanks guys,
I think I'm going to head over to the SVS distributor here in Toronto and check it out. The guy selling them there, mentioned some other options instead of the ultra 13.
1. He had the old ultra PC for some percentage off.
2. He said maybe another 20-39 PC-Plus, so have two of them.
What do you guys think of these options for enhancing the bass and which do you think is better, obviously including the ultra 13 option.

I was running a 20-39+ and a DIY+ (that sounded better than the cylinder) and thought I was in bass heaven. The Ultra13 is roughly equal in output to both of them, subjectively and much more articulate and punchy. Musically, it's in another class. robbroy's right about the step up from the Sony being larger, but the Plus to the new Ultra13 is a noticeable step up in class...immediately noticeable.

I just EQ'd my PB12-Plus. What do you think? Q=0.7 Freq= 52 Level = Max. I did this w/a Radio Shack analog meter. How did I do?

I think the high peaks at 35-40Hz and 50-55Hz, as well as the valley between the two peaks will affect the sound a bit. If you can, widen the frequency of EQ and drop the frequency down a bit to bring both of those peaks down a bit.

ARgh, so much to choose from and all more expensive. Hmmm... So I guess the Ultra 13 is the one to beat. Thanks for all the advice.
Just on another question, how loud is reference level? I was playing some music and just playing around with my SPL meter and it was around 96 db or so and it seem pretty loud, but how much more do I have to go before reference?
Also can I "bottom out" the sub? How loud for that? and will it break the sub?
Thanks!

I believe reference level for a sub is considered to be 115db in-room.

I have yet to bottom out my Ultra nor have I heard any reports of it being bottomed out yet. Bottoming out can break a sub. It will happen at different levels for different subs. It may not be possible to bottom out the 13Ultra because it is by intention amp-limited.

but how much more do I have to go before reference?
Also can I "bottom out" the sub? How loud for that? and will it break the sub?
Thanks!mm is right 115dbs is reference for the sub, 105 for your mains. For most rooms it's extremely loud and if your input signal isn't too hot and your sub gain not too high, you shouldn't have to worry about it. Be sure to calibrate though.

115dbs whoa, I doubt I'll hit that, but in terms of calibrating, I have a SPL meter, and I calibrated it with the white noise from my receiver, essentially making every channel the same output in dbs, is that correct?

What about checking the frequency response curve? I don't have a program to do that, can I just download a bunch of frequency files from 100Hz to 5Hz and run them to see how much dbs I get from the sub? If there a spikes, how can I get rid of them bearing in mind that I have a SVS 20-39 PC plus.
Thanks again.

SVS experts, I need your advice please. I just bought the Velodyne SMS-1 to compliment my SVS PB10 ISD. I am thinking of increasing output from around 14 hz to 19 hz to create a flatter in room response.

As I understand it, my subwoofer is tuned to 17.5 hz.

Now because the SMS-1 rolls off steeply below 20 hz, I was thinking of boosting a little (well, around 3 to 4 dB's from 14 to 19 hz). I understand that I will lose headroom but I also understand that I will not be able to perceive these frequencies if my room is causing a steeper roll off than normal.

Will my subwoofer survive a 3-4 dB boost in that area ? Thanks !

SVS experts, I need your advice please. I just bought the Velodyne SMS-1 to compliment my SVS PB10 ISD. I am thinking of increasing output from around 14 hz to 19 hz to create a flatter in room response.

As I understand it, my subwoofer is tuned to 17.5 hz.

Now because the SMS-1 rolls off steeply below 20 hz, I was thinking of boosting a little (well, around 3 to 4 dB's from 14 to 19 hz). I understand that I will lose headroom but I also understand that I will not be able to perceive these frequencies if my room is causing a steeper roll off than normal.

Will my subwoofer survive a 3-4 dB boost in that area ? Thanks !

You can realistically expect 18 Hz from the PB-10. It will roll off quickly below that, and in trying to boost those frequencies, you will harm its performance in the above 18 Hz area.

Linearity above 25 Hz is much more important than frequencies below 18 Hz, and for $429, the PB-10 does a remarkable job in those frequencies, and a fine job above 18.

115dbs whoa, I doubt I'll hit that, but in terms of calibrating, I have a SPL meter, and I calibrated it with the white noise from my receiver, essentially making every channel the same output in dbs, is that correct?

What about checking the frequency response curve? I don't have a program to do that, can I just download a bunch of frequency files from 100Hz to 5Hz and run them to see how much dbs I get from the sub? If there a spikes, how can I get rid of them bearing in mind that I have a SVS 20-39 PC plus.
Thanks again.

You can plot the frequency response manually as you said, but when you run the test tones, do not "see how much dbs I get from the sub" in the sense of playing the tones as loud as you can. That can damage the sub. Play the tones at a safe 75 -85 db for testing.

To actually adjust the response, you need an equalizer.

If you want to plot frequency response automatically, try REW software which is free from here:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/
It has a learning curve, but is worth the effort.

Thanks mojomike and everyone else for the info.

I thought people would like a picture of PB-13 Ultra stacked.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/1984911Porsche/IMG_2743.jpg

VERY nice, Anthem!!

I am reading on this thread about the auto-on not working and the sub never powers on, but I am having the opposite problem. On my brand new 20-39 PC+ the light stays green after I power off the receiver and never goes red. I have even gone as far as unplug the AV receiver from the wall to make sure no power is going to the sub and still no luck. I also have removed the subwoofer cable from the receiver and no dice. The only way I can get the light to go back to red is to power off the main switch, toggle the power switch from Auto to On then back to Auto, and then flip the main switch back to On. The light will also go back to green sometimes if I plug the subwoofer cable back in even if the other end of the cable isn't plugged into anything. I have tried both the L and R inputs on the sub. Any ideas? Thanks.

- Will

Will, it would appear the amp is not doing auto on/off properly -- but keep in mind that auto on/off only affects the output signal going to the driver -- the amp continues to draw idle current even in the 'auto off' mode. Many folks including myself prefer to leave their subs in the 'ON' position (since the amp remains on all the time anyway) -- so the problem you are having is actually the desired end result for many :)

Just to follow up on my earlier dilemma, I bit the bullet and upgraded to the PC ultra 13 from the PC plus. The difference is apparent and even to my wife. HT and music sounds tighter with less shall I say excess noise. Even preceived localization of the sub is pretty well gone. It also seems to integrate much better with the rest of the system. Seems more seamless and doesn't seem to over power the rest of the music. Can't wait to play around with it some more and use the parametric eq. I've never graphed the frequency response of my room. Highly recommend it. I can't imagine going back to lesser subs.

I am still working on locating and tweaking my dual subs to get the best results in my basement...yesterday I was listening to the 39plus with the amp's crossover enable versus disabled and there was a noticeable increase (unmeasured) in volume with the crossover enabled at 80hz. My receiver is also set at XO 80hz. Any thoughts on why there would be an audible increase in volume with the receiver XO'd at 80hz and the 39plus XO enabled at 80 hz at the same time (versus the receiver at 80hz alone)

I have a question for the SVS reps here, I'd like to buy the PB10. Here's my beef: SVS won't ship me a PB10 for $429 and my only option is to buy from Sonic Boom Audio - who sells the PB10 for an outragious $579can despite the fact that the Canadian dollar is the same as the US dollar. It was $579 when the Can dollar was 80c US and it's the same price still now that it's 1:1. What gives? Will SVS ensure that the price of the SVS subs in Canada be lowered to some degree?

I have two of the PB12-Ultra's connected to my SMS-1. I let the SMS-1 do its auto setup program to get the subs dialed in. I have the subs set in the 20Hz tune and have tried them in the 16Hz tune also. When I run the sweep tones from Avia on for the subs, I don't get much of any sound at all below 30Hz and absolutely nothing from about 22Hz on down. Do I have something setup wrong or is this just due to human hearing and such? I would greatly appreciate any help on getting the most out of these higher end subs. I am not super knowledgeable on some of this stuff which is why I bought the SMS-1 to help me dial it in easier.

http://web.mac.com/djhamilton872/Hamiltonsweb.com/Theater.html

equipment used:
2 - SVS PB12-Ultra subs
Paradigm Studio 60's
Paradigm Studio CC-570
Paradigm Studio ADP-470
Paradigm Studio 20's
Anthem AVM50 Pre/Pro
NAD Master Series M25 7 channel amp
SMS-1
Toshiba HD-A2
Sony PS3
APC H-15 Power conditioner
Time Warner Cable 8300HD

Do you spend all day, every day, reading through posts, looking for ways to nit pick at people ?

SVS has a series called the PC-Plus. They all used a 12 inch woofer.

It is not too hard to figure he has one of the three PC-Plus with the 12 inch woofer ... :rolleyes:



jtimmmy .. yes, it is well worth the upgrade. :)

Craig, It looks like your room of subs is starting to get to you. Take a chill pill, kick back, put on some Diana Krall and reeeeelaaaaxxxx, eh?:p

I have two of the PB12-Ultra's connected to my SMS-1. I let the SMS-1 do its auto setup program to get the subs dialed in. I have the subs set in the 20Hz tune and have tried them in the 16Hz tune also. When I run the sweep tones from Avia on for the subs, I don't get much of any sound at all below 30Hz and absolutely nothing from about 22Hz on down. Do I have something setup wrong or is this just due to human hearing and such? I would greatly appreciate any help on getting the most out of these higher end subs. I am not super knowledgeable on some of this stuff which is why I bought the SMS-1 to help me dial it in easier.




yeah 20hz and below is pretty much below human hearing, although I have never done a true sweep (knowing what hz I am at) you should "feel" the bass shake your pant legs and your seat. 30hz should be pretty dramatic though, look at all your settings again.

I wonder if there has been any thought to making a PB13-Plus? With so many people complaining about cabinet size it would be interesting to see. Also, small sealed with lots of power would be excellent.

This has been discussed -- per SVS, the current Ultra13 driver is optimized for ported / large-sealed use. A small sealed cab would require a different driver motor design -- and certainly more power and different equalization.
In other words it would be an entirely new engineering project.
Also remember that, IIRC, the largest plate amp Indigo has made to date is 1000 watts -- a small sealed Ultra13 will require ballpark double that.

This has been discussed -- per SVS, the current Ultra13 driver is optimized for ported / large-sealed use. A small sealed cab would require a different driver motor design -- and certainly more power and different equalization.
In other words it would be an entirely new engineering project.
Also remember that, IIRC, the largest plate amp Indigo has made to date is 1000 watts -- a small sealed Ultra13 will require ballpark double that.

Hrm. How many cubic feet is the PB13?

Anyone know why in the manual for the Ultra 13 it says to consult SVS for the 10 Hz setting? Also did anyone find the Ultra 13 to be a little less loud perhaps in the upper frequencies? Just comparing it to the PC 20-39 plus? I definately noticed an improvement in the tightness of the bass, but it seems a bit less. Was that more part from the 20-39 plus from more "overhang" ? Anyone comment on my less than professional findings? Thanks.

Hrm. How many cubic feet is the PB13?
Using the published outside dimensions of 27" deep, 20 1/2" wide, and 22" high, and deducting 2" from each for 1" MDF construction, I get 5.35 cubic feet gross internal volume -- call it a 5 cf system.
For comparison, a 17" external cube is roughly 2 cf internal
A 19.5" cube is roughly 3 cf internal

Jtimmmy, it may sound less loud because it actually loses less of the overhang in the upper regions. The sub is intended to be more accurate, which means, non overblown frequencies, even in the upper regions.

The PC+ and PCi and even the previous Ultra had more of a problem (relatively speaking, of course) above 80Hz in terms of how they reproduced those frequencies. Very well could have been over exaggerated and getting used to that will make the PB13-Ultra seem "less loud."

I received my 20-39 PC+ and I could not be happier with my purchase. I thought the Bose sub that I had was a decent one until I heard this puppy. Wow! It punches you right in the gut but only when it is supposed to and music sounds awesome too. I've never felt bass that you can't hear and that is a such a cool thing now (I am running it at the default 20hz). I was watching a movie and one particulat bass sequence literally made my hair stand up. This sub has made movie watching a true "experience" and not just a way to pass the time. Kudos to SVS!

- Bill

I know this has probably been addressed before (though I couldn't find the post in here), but I'm considering purchasing the PB12-Plus/2. Does anyone have any experience in comparison between this sub and the new Ultra-13 (cylinder model). Which one is better in terms of sound quality, output, depth, etc.?

If I can get more performance out of the smaller Ultra (cylinder), then I'd go for that over the huge box Plus/2 (Though the idea of having a sub with dual 12's is mouthwatering...). I've seen pics of the Ultra's driver and it looks ridiculous.

Thanks!

I have a question for the SVS reps here, I'd like to buy the PB10. Here's my beef: SVS won't ship me a PB10 for $429 and my only option is to buy from Sonic Boom Audio - who sells the PB10 for an outragious $579can despite the fact that the Canadian dollar is the same as the US dollar. It was $579 when the Can dollar was 80c US and it's the same price still now that it's 1:1. What gives? Will SVS ensure that the price of the SVS subs in Canada be lowered to some degree?

Can't you just drive to Sonicboom and pick one up in person? Since you are in Toronto, that helps you equalize the difference.

Let's do a quick comparision:

When SVS used to ship to Canada
$429 USD + UPS Shipping fee ($58) USD + UPS Brokerage charges + COD Fees (http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html) Approx $50 + GST/PST + approx 1.00=1.04 USD (what your credit card charges for exchange rate) =
$627 CAD to your door

From Sonic Boom if you drive there and pick it up
$579 + PST/GST = $660

Not that bad if you can drive there and pick it up from Sonicboom

I know this has probably been addressed before (though I couldn't find the post in here), but I'm considering purchasing the PB12-Plus/2. Does anyone have any experience in comparison between this sub and the new Ultra-13 (cylinder model). Which one is better in terms of sound quality, output, depth, etc.?

If I can get more performance out of the smaller Ultra (cylinder), then I'd go for that over the huge box Plus/2 (Though the idea of having a sub with dual 12's is mouthwatering...). I've seen pics of the Ultra's driver and it looks ridiculous.

Thanks!

I would assume the performance of the PC13 is pretty close to that of the PB13. Assuming that is true, the PC13 Ultra will pretty much at least match or dominate the Plus/2 in every way. Overall out should be similar, but the Ultra will will have better SQ and depth.

Help me do better than a flip of a coin

Ii was all set on getting the SB12+ because of size and reviews but I really want the 25-31PC-Plus. I was going to place the cylinder behind my TV in the corner (WAF) out of sight or if I got the SB12+ along the side wall in front of TV (some reason can't get image to paste). SVS rep said that the placement behind the TV would not be good since it was blocked on all sides. I have adjusted the TV and stand so there is ~8-10" of open space on either side of the cabinet to the floor. Is this enough space to place the cylinder? Costs seem to be about the same and so does the low end; I’ll be using my HT system 60/40 movies to music.

Help me do better than a flip of a coin

Ii was all set on getting the SB12+ because of size and reviews but I really want the 25-31PC-Plus. I was going to place the cylinder behind my TV in the corner (WAF) out of sight or if I got the SB12+ along the side wall in front of TV (some reason can't get image to paste). SVS rep said that the placement behind the TV would not be good since it was blocked on all sides. I have adjusted the TV and stand so there is ~8-10" of open space on either side of the cabinet to the floor. Is this enough space to place the cylinder? Costs seem to be about the same and so does the low end; I’ll be using my HT system 60/40 movies to music. I have a 16-46PC-Plus placed in a corner behind my TV, exactly as you described, unless I misunderstood. SVS seemed to think my location was fine when I discussed it with them. I don't have anywhere near 8-10" on either side of the TV.

Is your arrangement blocked at the top? Mine is open, so there is plenty of room for the sound to get out above the TV, if not around or through it. In any case, it has worked great for me for a couple of years.

I have a 16-46PC-Plus placed in a corner behind my TV, exactly as you described, unless I misunderstood. SVS seemed to think my location was fine when I discussed it with them. I don't have anywhere near 8-10" on either side of the TV.

Is your arrangement blocked at the top? Mine is open, so there is plenty of room for the sound to get out above the TV, if not around or through it. In any case, it has worked great for me for a couple of years.

Not misunderstood, my ceiling is ~ 8 foot high so i'm open that way. when i wrote SVS i was told that this location was too closed in, my tv cabinet sits on the floor so not much sound going that way. how much of the output would you say goes out the top?

Not misunderstood, my ceiling is ~ 8 foot high so i'm open that way. when i wrote SVS i was told that this location was too closed in, my tv cabinet sits on the floor so not much sound going that way. how much of the output would you say goes out the top? No way I can measure it, but bass is omnidirectional. I can only tell you that it works fine for me, with no sense of the sound being attenuated in any way.

I have to move the TV and cabinet out into the room when I make adjustments to the sub, and my SPL meter cannot detect any differences when it is out vs when it encloses the sub. Neither can my SMS-1. The FR curve is unchanged.

So if there is any loss, it's too small to measure with any of the tools I have (including my ears).

I am a proud owner of a SVS 12Plus/2. Years ago I got the brilliant idea to route out the back of my baseboard to conceal a 20AWG audio cable to my much smaller sub. My question is should I run an external Ratshack premium cable from my other Sub to the SVS? My thinking was the input impedance of the SVS is so high that the resistance in the 35" 20 AWG cable didn't matter.
Am I wrong? Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

I am a proud owner of a SVS 12Plus/2. Years ago I got the brilliant idea to mitre out my baseboard to conceal a 20AWG audio cable to my much smaller sub. My question is should I run an external Ratshack premium cable from my other Sub to the SVS? My thinking was the input impedance of the SVS is so high that the resistance in the 25" 20 AWG cable didn't matter.
Am I wrong? Any comments will be greatly appreciated.I use a standard, inexpensive, 25' audio interconnect cable for my +/2. No problems what so ever.

Hey guys,

Just wondering here if anyone had shipped a SVS cylinder sub? Any suggestions for boxes, packing material, etc.

I put mine on the local craigslist, but didn't hear anything, so before I put it in the marketplace, I wanted to check about shipping and see if it was even feasable. I had always thought I'd sell it locally when I upgraded, but that may not be possible.

Thanks in advance!

Aaron

Hi Everyone.... BAD NEWS.... maybe someone can help me. :mad:

I've had a SVS pb12-NSD since late spring, and it has worked and performed perfectly for my needs. I came home today and i noticed the light on the back of the sub was off... I noticed it because its normally either red or green. I tried turning the sub on and off, plugging in different outlets to no avail.

I took off the back fuse, and noticed it was black... ok I say to myself.. I guess thats why SVS supplies the bag with 2 extra fuses. I take a new fuse and put it in. 2 seconds later I flip the power switch and i see a little light come from the fuse part, and nothing. no power, no green or red light. I open the fuse and it is blown big time, all black. I have 1 fuse left and IM REALLY WORRIED im going to just blow it again putting it in and trying to turn it on.... whats going on here!!!??? can anyone help me out. This is kind of like being lost in the woods and only having 1 match left!! grrrr.

Can I buy more of these fuses somewhere? can SVS help me!?? anyone?:(

Thanks,

Ed

Ed, even if you had a million fuses, they will all most probably blow. there might be something wrong with the amp ... email SVS and they will probably do an elimination of possible problems with you.

Hi Everyone.... BAD NEWS.... maybe someone can help me. :mad:

I've had a SVS pb12-NSD since late spring, and it has worked and performed perfectly for my needs. I came home today and i noticed the light on the back of the sub was off... I noticed it because its normally either red or green. I tried turning the sub on and off, plugging in different outlets to no avail.

I took off the back fuse, and noticed it was black... ok I say to myself.. I guess thats why SVS supplies the bag with 2 extra fuses. I take a new fuse and put it in. 2 seconds later I flip the power switch and i see a little light come from the fuse part, and nothing. no power, no green or red light. I open the fuse and it is blown big time, all black. I have 1 fuse left and IM REALLY WORRIED im going to just blow it again putting it in and trying to turn it on.... whats going on here!!!??? can anyone help me out. This is kind of like being lost in the woods and only having 1 match left!! grrrr.

Can I buy more of these fuses somewhere? can SVS help me!?? anyone?:(

Thanks,

Ed

Please contact SVS at Tech Support and we'll help you diagnose the problem and get you back up and running again. Thanks!

yeah....I agree. Although puting the extra fuse in probably won't make things any worse than they already are. I'd give it a shot on the remote chance that the last replacement fuse was busted or something. You're going to have to call SVS anyway.

Can't you just drive to Sonicboom and pick one up in person? Since you are in Toronto, that helps you equalize the difference.

Let's do a quick comparision:

When SVS used to ship to Canada
$429 USD + UPS Shipping fee ($58) USD + UPS Brokerage charges + COD Fees (http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html) Approx $50 + GST/PST + approx 1.00=1.04 USD (what your credit card charges for exchange rate) =
$627 CAD to your door

From Sonic Boom if you drive there and pick it up
$579 + PST/GST = $660

Not that bad if you can drive there and pick it up from Sonicboom

Consider yourself lucky dude. Try buying one in the UK. They cost the same amount of pound units as dollars in the US. For example if a sub in the US is $800, it'll be £800 in the UK.

I am a proud owner of a SVS 12Plus/2. Years ago I got the brilliant idea to route out the back of my baseboard to conceal a 20AWG audio cable to my much smaller sub. My question is should I run an external Ratshack premium cable from my other Sub to the SVS? My thinking was the input impedance of the SVS is so high that the resistance in the 35" 20 AWG cable didn't matter.
Am I wrong? Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

The distance is not the problem. I would NOT run your SVS from the other sub. Run it directly into your reciever. If you want to run both, use a "Y" connector.

A question; why would you not want to run the other subwoofer from the SVS ? Are there any specific problems daisy chaining both subwoofers using one line in to line out ?

Has anybody received an update on the availability of the new curve perferated grill for the PB-13? I am anxious to get mine.

I meant to post this in the dedicated PB-13 thread, sorry.

I have a question for the SVS reps here, I'd like to buy the PB10. Here's my beef: SVS won't ship me a PB10 for $429 and my only option is to buy from Sonic Boom Audio - who sells the PB10 for an outragious $579can despite the fact that the Canadian dollar is the same as the US dollar. It was $579 when the Can dollar was 80c US and it's the same price still now that it's 1:1. What gives? Will SVS ensure that the price of the SVS subs in Canada be lowered to some degree?
I got my PB13U (CDN $1724 inc ship) from Sonic and they are excellent. Best of all my SVS servicing / warranty is all done in Canada rather than the hassle of dealing with shipping to the USA. I used to have HSU until they abandoned Canada, but with Sonic doing SVS and the PB13U sounding so good I am very happy that SVS got into gear and is distributed locally.

John

A question; why would you not want to run the other subwoofer from the SVS ? Are there any specific problems daisy chaining both subwoofers using one line in to line out ?

Except for the new PB/PC 13 Ultra's, all SVS low level RCA "OUT"s are high pass filtered at 80 Hz.

This dates from a time when fewer folks used multiple subs, and more folks might lack a low level external crossover for use with dedicated 2 channel equipment.

The new Ultras have a switch allowing selection of high pass or straight through behavior of the RCA outs.

You still don't need two full length sub cables if the subs are colocated -- simply use a Y connector at the sub nearer the prepro/receiver, and a short interconnect to the other sub.

I never knew this. Does this mean that for many other subwoofers out there, it's possible that their line out's are also high pass filtered at a specific frequency ?

I mean, then what is the purpose of daisy chaining two subwoofers using one line out to line in ? If the "out" is high pass filtered at, let's say, 80 hz and you've already used an 80 hz high pass filter selected in the AVR, then you're basically getting almost zero deep bass from the subwoofer, right (at least from the one) ?

H., SVS is the only sub I know of that does this but there may be others.
It is mentioned in their instruction manuals -- I'll admit it would be nice if they'd silkscreen "High Pass 80Hz" on the plate amp :)

This was never intended for use with an AVR, but for folks who wanted to add a sub to 2 channel equipment. Say you have a Prima Luna tube preamp and a Prima Luna tube power amp driving some monitor type speakers, and you want to add a sub. You run interconnects from the preamp to the sub, and interconnects from the sub to the power amp, and your signal to the mains is high passed at 80Hz. It's really a cool setup for 2 channel folks -- and folks wanting to daisy-chain two subs can just use a Y connector.

Thanks for the explanation !

I've preordered and waiting for my PB13 Ultra. here it costs £1000 (gloss black)

Hmmm... I had emailed SVS asking about port replacements to lower my original 25-31PC to 22 Hz. They said they still do sell them, but now I see various posts in this thread about "port plugs" (as opposed to just "ports"). How do those work exactly?

Oh and I have Paradigm Studio 60 series speakers which are reasonably good towers. Should I really set my fronts as "small" with crossover at 60 Hz? I tried that once in my other place and it just didn't sound right. Mind you at that place it was a mix of music and movies. Nowadays that SVS sub-endowed system is not my music system. The only time the sub gets a workout is with movies.

P.S. Those of you with hardware floors, do you guys put pads underneath your cylinder subs? Just wondering. If so, what type of pads?

Room is an 11.5' x 19' rectangular room with engineered hardwood floors, and drywall for the walls. Unfortunately, my metal shelves rattle a bit, so I may replace them.

The line level pre-outs are high pass filtered at 80 Hz, 12 dB/octave.

The speaker level outputs (if so equipped) have a passive high pass filter, the frequency of which is determined by the impedance load of the connected loudspeaker, but generally falls into the 90-100 Hz region and is 6 dB/octave.

The new Ultra products have a high pass defeat which allows daisy-chaining; all other SVS products should not be daisy-chained, as this will kill the deep bass performance of the 2nd subwoofer. Use a Y splitter on the AVR pre-out and connect the two subwoofers that way.

Hmmm... I had emailed SVS asking about port replacements to lower my original 25-31PC to 22 Hz. They said they still do sell them, but now I see various posts in this thread about "port plugs" (as opposed to just "ports"). How do those work exactly?

Oh and I have Paradigm Studio 60 series speakers which are reasonably good towers. Should I really set my fronts as "small" with crossover at 60 Hz? I tried that once in my other place and it just didn't sound right. Mind you at that place it was a mix of music and movies. Nowadays that SVS sub-endowed system is not my music system. The only time the sub gets a workout is with movies.

P.S. Those of you with hardware floors, do you guys put pads underneath your cylinder subs? Just wondering. If so, what type of pads?

The port plugs are for variable tune subwoofers with multiple ports. Plugging a port lowers the tuning frequency. In your case, with a single port, a longer port needs to be installed to lower the tuning frequency.

If the floor standing speaker doesn't truly have full range extension to at least 25 Hz or deeper, then it is generally better off set to Small and high passed at 60-80 Hz. Most AVRS apply a 12 dB/octave filter, so the speakers will still definitely play some bass below the selected crossover frequency, albeit at a progressively reduced volume as the frequency gets deeper.

The Auralex SubDude or GRAMMA seems to work well with customers who want to isolate/decouple their subwoofer from a floor surface which is contributing flex/resonance/boom to the sound.

Hey guys,

Just wondering here if anyone had shipped a SVS cylinder sub? Any suggestions for boxes, packing material, etc.

I put mine on the local craigslist, but didn't hear anything, so before I put it in the marketplace, I wanted to check about shipping and see if it was even feasable. I had always thought I'd sell it locally when I upgraded, but that may not be possible.

Thanks in advance!

Aaron

just bought a pc2039+ from a guy in ca he used mailbox store to custom package the sub for 40.00,also ups will custom package it too for about thesame price

The line level pre-outs are high pass filtered at 80 Hz, 12 dB/octave.

The speaker level outputs (if so equipped) have a passive high pass filter, the frequency of which is determined by the impedance load of the connected loudspeaker, but generally falls into the 90-100 Hz region and is 6 dB/octave.

The new Ultra products have a high pass defeat which allows daisy-chaining; all other SVS products should not be daisy-chained, as this will kill the deep bass performance of the 2nd subwoofer. Use a Y splitter on the AVR pre-out and connect the two subwoofers that way.



The port plugs are for variable tune subwoofers with multiple ports. Plugging a port lowers the tuning frequency. In your case, with a single port, a longer port needs to be installed to lower the tuning frequency.

If the floor standing speaker doesn't truly have full range extension to at least 25 Hz or deeper, then it is generally better off set to Small and high passed at 60-80 Hz. Most AVRS apply a 12 dB/octave filter, so the speakers will still definitely play some bass below the selected crossover frequency, albeit at a progressively reduced volume as the frequency gets deeper.

The Auralex SubDude or GRAMMA seems to work well with customers who want to isolate/decouple their subwoofer from a floor surface which is contributing flex/resonance/boom to the sound.
Thanks for the info.

Yes, my speakers are rated at:

Frequency responses:
46Hz-22kHz, ±2dB (on axis)
46Hz-20kHz, ±2dB (30 degrees off axis).
Low-frequency extension (DIN 45 500): 30Hz.

I will try the 60 Hz crossover and see how that works. (I find if I use an 80 Hz crossover, it's too easy to localize the sub.)

I will look into the SubDude. It would seem that the planks of engineered hardwood are not always ideal with a strong sub. :p

Well, its official. After many, many weeks of filling my shopping cart, entering my info, and closing the browser, I pulled the trigger last night.

Ive got a PB12+ on a truck, headed for my door. I cant wait!!!!

Which finish did you go for?

Which finish did you go for?

I went for the black finish. While I did REALLY want the wood finishes, it just wouldnt fit with my other black speakers. If I had wood finish speakers, I would have gotten the nicer finishes.

Can anyone thats gotten one tell me how it arrives? Is it on a crate? About how much does it weigh? The website says 110lbs, but Im assuming thats sub only. I am trying to figure out how to get it into my house.

I went for the black finish. While I did REALLY want the wood finishes, it just wouldnt fit with my other black speakers. If I had wood finish speakers, I would have gotten the nicer finishes.

Can anyone thats gotten one tell me how it arrives? Is it on a crate? About how much does it weigh? The website says 110lbs, but Im assuming thats sub only. I am trying to figure out how to get it into my house.

two friends and a four wheeled dolly would make it easy.

I would have gone for piano black too. My speakers are rosewood and wouldn't directly match any of the SVS finishes (Rosenut is fairly close). I'm surprised the "overstock" sale has lasted so long.

I'm interested in the sale, too, although I could use some more time. Anyone know how long the sale might go? I'd be bummed to come here one day to find the prices went back up.

I went for the black finish. While I did REALLY want the wood finishes, it just wouldnt fit with my other black speakers. If I had wood finish speakers, I would have gotten the nicer finishes.

Can anyone thats gotten one tell me how it arrives? Is it on a crate? About how much does it weigh? The website says 110lbs, but Im assuming thats sub only. I am trying to figure out how to get it into my house.

It comes on a pallet, you snap the straps, but it on a handtruck and bring it inside. I did both my PB13 Ultra's that way.

Michael

The Plus is 132lbs shipped, as Anthem said, detach the pallet, pop the box and you should be able to handle 110lbs of sub. I did the U13 by myself, though I tipped the delivery guys to bring it inside and set it down in the FR.

It comes on a pallet, you snap the straps, but it on a handtruck and bring it inside. I did both my PB13 Ultra's that way.

Michael

The Plus is 132lbs shipped, as Anthem said, detach the pallet, pop the box and you should be able to handle 110lbs of sub. I did the U13 by myself, though I tipped the delivery guys to bring it inside and set it down in the FR.

Nice, thanks! Good info. Ill figure it out. Ill get pictures up when I get it.

I have a question for the SVS insiders who roam this thread:

When will SVS owners be able to purchase this plaque directly from SVS?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/tpc3416/47da2f46.jpg

I have a question for the SVS insiders who roam this thread:

When will SVS owners be able to purchase this plaque directly from SVS?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/tpc3416/47da2f46.jpg

You didn't get the email from SVS saying that each of their customers will get one in the mail for Christmas??? That's the rumor I'm spreading...:D


I have to admit that does look better than the file I created...:o

-t

Yes I would like one too!

Hmmm... I had emailed SVS asking about port replacements to lower my original 25-31PC to 22 Hz. They said they still do sell them, but now I see various posts in this thread about "port plugs" (as opposed to just "ports"). How do those work exactly?
The port plugs are from the plus series of subs. (I have 2 25-31 plus subs) There are 3 ports in the sub. As the name implies, with all ports open it is ported to 25hz. When you plug one of the ports, it becomes ported to 20hz (and, in my room, the sound becomes a much flatter frequency response), when you plug 2 ports, it becomes ported to 16hz (and in my room starts to sound like you did not purchase an SVS)
Oh and I have Paradigm Studio 60 series speakers which are reasonably good towers. Should I really set my fronts as "small" with crossover at 60 Hz? I tried that once in my other place and it just didn't sound right. Mind you at that place it was a mix of music and movies. Nowadays that SVS sub-endowed system is not my music system. The only time the sub gets a workout is with movies.
I have Polk Audio LSi15 towers for my front speakers. They play pretty reliably to the low 40's - upper 30's. They sound much better when I don't ask them to play under 80 though so I have my sub crossed over at 80hz in my Pre/Pro. To be honest what sounds best is very room dependant (not just speaker dependant) so all I can tell you is play with different crossover settings (if your AVR supports them) and decide for yourself what sounds best. (I would do this with music rather than movies - much easier to tell) Start with 80 as a point of reference and move up and down from there until you get to what sounds best. Unless your speakers play deeper than your sub (at the same output) I would definately cross them over though. (set them as small)

No wood floors to deal with so I can't help there....

Good luck.

Michael

Curious if anyone has heard an updated ETA for the PB13 Ultra/2?
Seems like it was Q1 of 2008?

Larry

Curious if anyone has heard an updated ETA for the PB13 Ultra/2?
Seems like it was Q1 of 2008?

LarryNothing concrete...it's vaporware since they haven't commited to building it yet.

It's available now in two modular units each with it's own amp and driver :)

It's available now in two modular units each with it's own amp and driver :)

LOL; good enough!

Hi everyone...first-time home theater buyer, longtime fan of SVS subwoofers. I've been sort of infatuated with them ever since I heard a friend's PB12-NSD flex its muscles on War of the Worlds, so I think I'm going to add one to my new home theater. I've spent the last week reading this thread, and it has been helpful. I think I've narrowed it down to a few choices, and was looking for some input.

Hopefully I attach the image properly, but I'm in a second floor apartment-- don't worry, I've negotiated times that are ok with the neighbors for me to be experimenting with the system :p -- with a pretty open area. The dimensions are 14' x 21' x 9' (taller ceilings on second floor apartments), so about 2650 ft^3. This area is connected to the kitchen and dining area, with no doors or anything else to close/seal off the area.

My budget for the subwoofer with shipping is $650 or so. This leaves me with the PB10 or 12-NSD, or even the 25-31 or 20-39 cylinders, but I've never really considered the cylinders much before.

My listening needs are 75% home theater movies, 25% music. Space is not much of a concern, but placement is. My TV area is situated at sort of an angle, so I'm wondering where I would put the sub. I know a corner is preferential for extension, but I don't have really any corners where I could put it, so any suggestions would be nice in that regard.

If I were to put the sub next to the couch, would there be any potential concern if I decided to put a rear speaker in the vicinity of the sub relating to the health (haha) of the speaker due to proximity? I'm talking primarily electrical interference- not an engineer, so I'm not too well educated on this aspect.

Wow, so many questions, hope I didn't lose anyone yet! Right now I'm leaning towards the PB-12, but will reconsider if anyone can provide some advice on either the box sub or the cylinders. As much as I wish I could afford a /2 of any sort, I just can't swing it right now. Thanks in advance for your help!

Placement next to the couch should not be a problem. It should not pose a threat to the rear speaker. I would also consider placement somewhere along the wall to the right of the TV. You might even be able to consider placement behind the TV. One of the cylinders might work well there. There is no way to know in advance which placement is best acoustically until you actually try it out.

MoJos advice is good :)

Because of the very open nature of your area, and your current under $1k budget, I'd concentrate on the nearfield placement between the couch and the stools. You'll have to play with the distance to sub (and possible distance to speakers) settings in your receiver to get everything timed but that's easy to do. If you were willing to give up some (well, a lot of)bass 'feel' for better blending with your mains (for music), then the behind the TV position would be best.

Also, nearfield sub placements work best if you can cross over to the sub no higher than 60Hz. Above that you will be able to 'locate' the sub more easily -- ths is something that some folks are bothered by more than others. If you have to use a 100Hz or higher crossover, you may have to place the sub up front in order to get a good blending with your main speakers.

Guys,
Can anyone comment upon the pros - cons of me adding another sub? I currently have a PB12 Plus that I just love. If I added another will the SPL be that much more? I currently have it set at 20hz with all ports open, if I had another one would I do the same with it?

The one I have now is shaking the room pretty hard, but it sounds so great. I can't help but thinking with another one it would just be unreal.

Just wondering if anyone here has had any finish issues with the rosenut finish? I am on my second PB plus/2, the first one had an obvious partial handprint right on the front, it looked kind of cloudy and ghostlike, I sent SVS a picture and they sent me off another one, I've had it set up for a couple days and in the right light this morning I noticed again some white cloudy areas around the SVS symbol and 2 other areas right on the front! It's driving me nuts! Everyone says how beautiful the finishes are, but this is my second one with issues. It's in the finish and cannot be wiped off......
Going to send them another E-mail this morning and see what they have to say. I hate to be a downer, but hey I expect more for $1300.00..........:confused:

Guys,
Can anyone comment upon the pros - cons of me adding another sub? I currently have a PB12 Plus that I just love. If I added another will the SPL be that much more? I currently have it set at 20hz with all ports open, if I had another one would I do the same with it?

The one I have now is shaking the room pretty hard, but it sounds so great. I can't help but thinking with another one it would just be unreal.Running dual Pluses will get you at least 3db more output and up to 6dbs if you colocate them. I had mine about 7' apart for the best FR and never ever ran out of headroom. The bass is just effortless. You don't realize how much so until you go back to one sub again. I lent one of mine out and though a single was still good, it was straining in passages the duals handled easily. If you've got the coin, it's a very worthwhile upgrade.

Even co-located duals even out the FR. Like Ron said I didn't notice it till one was off. Only con I can think of is the extra dough and the real estate it takes up.

Thanks everyone for your help concerning placement, I definitely printed off those posts and will save them for later :D However, my question still remains about which SVS would be appropriate given my specs below, can anyone help? Thanks!

Hi everyone...first-time home theater buyer, longtime fan of SVS subwoofers. I've been sort of infatuated with them ever since I heard a friend's PB12-NSD flex its muscles on War of the Worlds, so I think I'm going to add one to my new home theater. I've spent the last week reading this thread, and it has been helpful. I think I've narrowed it down to a few choices, and was looking for some input.

Hopefully I attach the image properly, but I'm in a second floor apartment-- don't worry, I've negotiated times that are ok with the neighbors for me to be experimenting with the system :p -- with a pretty open area. The dimensions are 14' x 21' x 9' (taller ceilings on second floor apartments), so about 2650 ft^3. This area is connected to the kitchen and dining area, with no doors or anything else to close/seal off the area.

My budget for the subwoofer with shipping is $650 or so. This leaves me with the PB10 or 12-NSD, or even the 25-31 or 20-39 cylinders, but I've never really considered the cylinders much before.

My listening needs are 75% home theater movies, 25% music. Space is not much of a concern, but placement is. My TV area is situated at sort of an angle, so I'm wondering where I would put the sub. I know a corner is preferential for extension, but I don't have really any corners where I could put it, so any suggestions would be nice in that regard.

If I were to put the sub next to the couch, would there be any potential concern if I decided to put a rear speaker in the vicinity of the sub relating to the health (haha) of the speaker due to proximity? I'm talking primarily electrical interference- not an engineer, so I'm not too well educated on this aspect.

Wow, so many questions, hope I didn't lose anyone yet! Right now I'm leaning towards the PB-12, but will reconsider if anyone can provide some advice on either the box sub or the cylinders. As much as I wish I could afford a /2 of any sort, I just can't swing it right now. Thanks in advance for your help!

Well its an easy choice, Thrand -- in that much space with openings to more space, if $650 is your budget you need the strongest SVS you can get for that coin. And that would be the PB12-NSD.

I'm interested in the sale, too, although I could use some more time. Anyone know how long the sale might go? I'd be bummed to come here one day to find the prices went back up.

Looks like the piano black finish is already back up to normal price. I was thinking of getting one. Now I'm not.

Only con I can think of is the extra dough and the real estate it takes up.

Stack them.

I have heard really good things about this sub. One thing that keeps me back is size because of my limited space. Can you guys tell me what I should consider when placing this sub? (distance from walls, facing direction, and distance to the objects in front of it ,etc)

HSU VTF3 MK3, Velodyne SPL-1500R, Paradigm Seismic 12 , Martin Logan Depth i or comparable REL subwoofers (like the new R and B series or the older models stadium and storm)

(chose that HSU because of the attractive value)

Can you guys please compare any of these subs? or suggest any other alternatives or combinations?

Main concern is sound quality then size and budget. (50% music 50% HT usage) (being musical and integration with the speakers is really important for me) (budget is flexible $1200 + another $500 stretch if need to)

Speakers are Revel M22s.
Living room is around 2100 cubic feet. It is open to kitchen and dining room, so all would total around 3700 cubic feet.
But the sub will be on the corner, 5 feet away from me.

I would appreciate any comments.

Thank you

Looks like the piano black finish is already back up to normal price. I was thinking of getting one. Now I'm not.

I had been looking at the piano black PB12-Plus and it looks like I purchased just in time. I just received it last week and am very happy with the purchase. I was going to hold out a little longer but now I am glad that I didn't wait.

Can you lay the Plus/2 on its side facing forward and not loose much. (obvously taking off the base) Normal is just a few inches too high for my screen.

Kermie, you can absolutely lay the sub on it's side. This is true for the cylinder design subs as well.

Kermie, you can absolutely lay the sub on it's side. This is true for the cylinder design subs as well.


That is good, I want to do something like Lomax did with his DIY. It will help gain some space in the seating area. Obviously not as much as this, but I figured you could face them like this.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9048/dsc00031vx7.jpg


And just face the Plus/2 like this but leave some room on the side for the Ports

http://www.svsound.com/products/subs/pb12plus2/angle_med.jpg

As an owner of a PB10ISD, I am proud to announce that while watching 300 last night, i heard the doorbell of my condo ringing.. I answered the door and it was my next door neighbor.. We both share the same wall in the living room.. Anyway.. He asked me, "Is the Bass coming from your apartment?" I said, yes , we're watching 300... He kindly asked if i could turn the bass down as he said his whole apartment was shaking ...... LOL... PB10ISD wins again... hahahahaah

DarthBrooklyn and SVS - pissing off neighbors since 2005

Looks like the piano black finish is already back up to normal price. I was thinking of getting one. Now I'm not.

Yep, bummer, guess I'm not either. We've just moved and have had so much going on. I've just gotten the HT set up again. I just haven't had some to make a decision on the purchase.

What happened to their website? I can't pull it up.

What happened to their website? I can't pull it up.

It's coming up for me. Are you getting some kind of error?

-Robb

I'm a new owner of a PB10-NSD which the amp was fried, effect of a lighting strike. The new amp is on the way...

My question is:

In the instructions SVS sent for AMP removal, it states one should make a small mark on where to woofer sat. Well I removed the woofer yesterday to disconnect without the instructions, then last night I saw the SVS instructions.

I can't recall if I put the woofer exactly the same way, does this REALLY matter?? I will have to take the woofer out again when the AMP arrives...

Does it really make a difference to re-install the woofer exactly the way it came from SVS?

Hopefully I'm coming across clear.
Thanks!

I'm looking at a new sub for my HT that I'm working on. Currently I have the original HSU VTF-3 (5+ years old). The new HT bedroom is 10x13x8. Yes it's small!

I'm looking at the PB12-Plus in Cherry for $800 or the LFM-1 Plus for $549. Is the PB12-Plus significantly better than LFM-1 Plus? Usage will be 95% HT. Size is an issue, but I do have a nice chunk of floor space *behind* the loveseat which can hold almost any sized sub.

Placement along the side walls or next to the loveseat would require a much more petite subwoofer.

Thoughts?

I'm a new owner of a PB10-NSD which the amp was fried, effect of a lighting strike. The new amp is on the way...

My question is:

In the instructions SVS sent for AMP removal, it states one should make a small mark on where to woofer sat. Well I removed the woofer yesterday to disconnect without the instructions, then last night I saw the SVS instructions.

I can't recall if I put the woofer exactly the same way, does this REALLY matter?? I will have to take the woofer out again when the AMP arrives...

Does it really make a difference to re-install the woofer exactly the way it came from SVS?

Hopefully I'm coming across clear.
Thanks!It does not make a difference. It is round and the screw holes are evenly spaced. They may want to ensure it goes in the same way to avoid any wire tangles.

I'm looking at a new sub for my HT that I'm working on. Currently I have the original HSU VTF-3 (5+ years old). The new HT bedroom is 10x13x8. Yes it's small!

I'm looking at the PB12-Plus in Cherry for $800 or the LFM-1 Plus for $549. Is the PB12-Plus significantly better than LFM-1 Plus? Usage will be 95% HT. Size is an issue, but I do have a nice chunk of floor space *behind* the loveseat which can hold almost any sized sub.

Placement along the side walls or next to the loveseat would require a much more petite subwoofer.

Thoughts?

Either sub should do well in a room that size.

Overall the PB12-Plus is designed to be a stronger sub. The PB12-Plus has 3 3" ports open in 20Hz tune, only two 3" ports open on the LFM-Plus at 25Hz tune. In 18 Hz tune the LFM-1 Plus has only one port open, while the PB12-Plus has two ports open in 16Hz tune. The PB12-Plus has a 525 watt amp compared to a 350 watt amp. The PB12-Plus in the wood finishes also has a single band parametric filter, useful for flattening the largest hump in your room's frequency response.

Thanks. Received the new AMP today, installed and all works perfectly...

Time to calibrate now. Well soon enough...

Either sub should do well in a room that size.

Overall the PB12-Plus is designed to be a stronger sub. The PB12-Plus has 3 3" ports open in 20Hz tune, only two 3" ports open on the LFM-Plus at 25Hz tune. In 18 Hz tune the LFM-1 Plus has only one port open, while the PB12-Plus has two ports open in 16Hz tune. The PB12-Plus has a 525 watt amp compared to a 350 watt amp. The PB12-Plus in the wood finishes also has a single band parametric filter, useful for flattening the largest hump in your room's frequency response.

Oops! Sorry about mixing topics. I will say that this AM I pulled the trigger on the PB12-Plus in Cherry..it was literally the last one in stock and they won't be making any more...so it's the last Cherry PB12-Plus ever! :D

Can't wait to hear it shake my room or blow out my windows.

The Cherry is a beautiful finish -- you are lucky to have gotten the last one!

Well I upgrade this week from an Onix UFW-10 to a Piano Black PB12-Plus. My first reaction was "Holy crap what have I done?!?!" That thing is a beast - my poor UFW has some serious envy. When my girlfriend saw the box she gave me "the look" - and I had to agree with her. Lol - oh well I still had a good place for it (even though its not corner loaded).

So anyway I tuned it with my SPL meter and went to work testing it with my new HD DVD player. . . oops. . . my AVR (Pio Elite 84) has an HDMI bug and the LFE channel is -10dB. . . crap. Guess I'll try it on a SD DVD. . . hmm. . . still sounds weak. Ok screw this - pop in a CD. Damn. Good thing I don't have neighbors in my rowhouse - I didn't even have the gain up and it's rattling my coffee table.

Can't wait to get my AVR fixed (there's a firmware upgrade) and try out some HD DVD bass goodness. I don't see how people need more sub then this - but I do have a very small living room.

I don't see how people need more sub then this - but I do have a very small living room.
I have a +/2 and I don't see how everyone doesn't want even more bass.:)

Istari1, any pics of the new setup? Would love to see a pic.

I have a +/2 and I don't see how everyone doesn't want even more bass.:)

I added a second +/2 with a SMS-1, I think Im good now:)

I have had my SVS PB-12 Ultra for about a year now. All of a sudden with big bass sounds, shotguns, spacecraft flying over ect... it sounds like it is chuffing or bottoming out. Anyone got any suggestions what this might be. I have changed receivers and let Audyssey EQ the sound. I thought from my sound meter it was about 1.5db to low so I adjusted the sound in the receiver up 1.5db. If I turn it down then I loose much of the heart pounding bass I like so much. Thanks for the help.

Istari1, any pics of the new setup? Would love to see a pic.

Sure thing - here ya go. Not the best pics but you get the idea. The speakers are a set of Onix Rocket 550's and a 300 Center Channel. TV is an Sony XBR960

How does the room compensation work on the 13 Ultra? Is it effective? I may be purchasing a Rosenut PB13U soon and my room is only 1700 cubic ft.

How does the room compensation work on the 13 Ultra? Is it effective? I may be purchasing a Rosenut PB13U soon and my room is only 1700 cubic ft.It's a filter that mitigates room gain. In my case, I left it off until I had an in room frequency response calculated. Then utilizing the variable tuning, compensation and PEQ, I was able to tame/mitigate a fairly large plateau I was experiencing from 30hz down. You can follow the SVS recommendation based on your size room, but I found I needed to set mine to Small to have the greatest effect on my problem (my room is med/large). Like anything else, experiment until it gets better. I found it very useful.

I have had my SVS PB-12 Ultra for about a year now. All of a sudden with big bass sounds, shotguns, spacecraft flying over ect... it sounds like it is chuffing or bottoming out. Anyone got any suggestions what this might be. I have changed receivers and let Audyssey EQ the sound. I thought from my sound meter it was about 1.5db to low so I adjusted the sound in the receiver up 1.5db. If I turn it down then I loose much of the heart pounding bass I like so much. Thanks for the help.

I would turn off audyessey and do some measurements.

I personally don't like what audyessy EQ does to LFE, for me it cut out some DB's in the 30hz and lower range.