So what determines skin tones? Some sets do a much better job at handling them, as they vary so much.


bob

Yes. Suppose your DVD wants to display a green that lands exactly on the "green" corner of the SMPTE-C color chart. To properly display that color, your display should show 100% green, 0% red and 0% blue. If your green primary is correct -- that is, if it is ALSO exactly on the green corner of the SMPTE-C triangle -- then you'll see exactly the same color that the camera saw. But if your display's "green" primary is actually blue, or pink, or yellow-green, then you're going to SEE blue, pink, or yellow-green. You can't fix that with the grayscale because that's what your display thinks "green" is.

Great analogy. So if you illuminate the picture with a proper "white" light, your colors should look right. But if you go to paint some green grass, and your green paint is actually blue, or pink, or yellow-green... then your painting will look sick. That's what happens when your primaries are off.


So, you could have the proper "white" cast and still have sickly skin tones and greenish yellows?


bob

Yes, exactly. The trouble with the paint analogy is that a painter looks at the paints she's using, and mixes them to get the desired color. So a yellow-green paint isn't necessarily a problem -- the painter just adjusts her mix until she gets what she wants. But with your display, there's no feedback loop like that built into the set. It just says "green paint is in this pot, I'll use it" and doesn't pay attention to what color it really is.

We try to put in a bit of a feedback loop by calibrating our displays. That at least gets the "white light" right, and that solves what is usually the worst problem with the display colors. But it doesn't affect the primaries, only the mix of primaries that produces "white light." If the primaries are wrong, if your "green paint" is really pink, you're still hosed.

Skin tones are a mixture of R G and B, like most colors. Skin tones are just more challenging because it's really clear if something is off. So if the camera says use X% G, Y% R, and Z% R to get the XYZ skin tone, but your display's G is not the same as the camera's G, then the skin tone you see will be wrong. And there's not much you can do about it because the primary is wrong. With a CRT you can try to filter the colors to get the right primaries, but you can't do that (as far as I know) with a plasma or any kind of digital display. You're just stuck with what you get, unless your display somehow lets you control the primaries.

With a CRT you can try to filter the colors to get the right primaries, but you can't do that (as far as I know) with a plasma or any kind of digital display. You're just stuck with what you get, unless your display somehow lets you control the primaries.

On a display without a CMS or filters, etc. you can cheat a little by shifting the white point. Shifting the white point doesn't affect your primaries but some calibrators do this to shift the secondaries closer to reference. This can be beneficial because we are more sensitive to color shifts than white point shifts and also because much of the real world images we see (like skin tones) lie within the secondary gamut. For example, if yellow is really off towards red and you can see it in light skin tones (the sunburnt look), you can shift your gray scale cooler to compensate. Color saturation control also plays a role here, undersaturated blues are preferable to oversaturated reds. Ultimately, these trade-offs have to be done by each individual user.

On a display without a CMS or filters, etc. you can cheat a little by shifting the white point. Shifting the white point doesn't affect your primaries but some calibrators do this to shift the secondaries closer to reference. This can be beneficial because we are more sensitive to color shifts than white point shifts and also because much of the real world images we see (like skin tones) lie within the secondary gamut. For example, if yellow is really off towards red and you can see it in light skin tones (the sunburnt look), you can shift your gray scale cooler to compensate. Color saturation control also plays a role here, undersaturated blues are preferable to oversaturated reds. Ultimately, these trade-offs have to be done by each individual user.

and how Kraz has mentioned, LCH derivations are a good way to methodically decide these trade-offs. The excel file is nice, but it would great if this prog would have them.

For the most part, achieving grayscale d65, and correcting basic color decoder errors (if they exist) is the way to go. Moving away from D65 being one way to compensate for inaccurate primaries or only having basic color/tint controls (or Both).

Ideally you have a CMS to align primaries....that way you don't even have to think about these trade-offs! The traditional method of balancing D65 grayscale and correcting color decoding would then result in secondary color perfection!

The new 750 is supossed to add CMS and full user WB.


bob

Do you know this for sure? I just read the hdguru.com review of the TH-50PZ750 (wow, he basically said it destroyed a Pio PRO-FHD1 !)

but it didn't mention a CMS...(though he did say he measured the primaries as being 'more accurate' than previous pannys)

EDIT: I did find this clip (still doesn't truly prove that this 'mode' is perfect and if the 'Pro' part will give you a CMS.

But a dynamic Gamma control?? ooooo.....ok enough drooling, here's the clip:

The series adds Studio Reference Mode which according to the Panasonic release “provides the consumer with the exact color reproduction as seen on the reference monitors used in film editing studios, resulting in the exact colors and expression intended by the film makers.” According to a spokesperson it also includes a dynamic gamma control. In addition, there is a Pro Setting Mode that “allows the consumer to professionally calibrate the set, plus there are three HDMI connections and a unique black chrome ornament cosmetic.”

The series adds Studio Reference Mode which according to the Panasonic release “provides the consumer with the exact color reproduction as seen on the reference monitors used in film editing studios, resulting in the exact colors and expression intended by the film makers.” According to a spokesperson it also includes a dynamic gamma control. In addition, there is a Pro Setting Mode that “allows the consumer to professionally calibrate the set, plus there are three HDMI connections and a unique black chrome ornament cosmetic.”

Anyone in the market for a used 600U panny?

On a display without a CMS or filters, etc. you can cheat a little by shifting the white point. Shifting the white point doesn't affect your primaries but some calibrators do this to shift the secondaries closer to reference. This can be beneficial because we are more sensitive to color shifts than white point shifts and also because much of the real world images we see (like skin tones) lie within the secondary gamut. For example, if yellow is really off towards red and you can see it in light skin tones (the sunburnt look), you can shift your gray scale cooler to compensate. Color saturation control also plays a role here, undersaturated blues are preferable to oversaturated reds. Ultimately, these trade-offs have to be done by each individual user.

For DTV mixed HD&SD viewing, I have decided to "shift" my white point from warm to normal. A good quality movie is fine with warm but if the programming is off, warm mode sticks out like a sore thumb (skin tones, yellows, etc).

Any idea what temp. that is? 7500k, 9300k?

I'm curious if any of you that happy with your calibartion leave it on warm mode for cable or Sat viewing? I do leave warm on for DVD's.

thx


bob

Anyone in the market for a used 600U panny?

Calibrated?

;)

If anyone has a good source for dessicant packets


With free shipping. http://silicagelpackets.com/

With free shipping. http://silicagelpackets.com/


Only this particular probe is moisture sensitive?


bob

Is there any way to enter correction factors for your 0-100 IRE source? Regular Avia has errors in the low IREs. Both Cb and Cr are 129 (0x81) instead of 128 (0x80) -- see this thread (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4273204#post4273204). This affects low IREs more than high IREs, resulting in a magenta push. If rader's spreadsheet (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=587485) is correct, Avia is off by as much as 50% for the IRE0 green. Would be very nice to be able to correct for that in HCFR. It's not going to be very visible at such low levels, but it would still be nice to be able to adjust for it automatically.

Would be very nice to be able to correct for that in HCFR. It's not going to be very visible at such low levels, but it would still be nice to be able to adjust for it automatically.

That would be a tricky, if not impossible task. There is no guarantee that the YCbCr->RGB transform will be done correctly by the dvdplayer/projector/panel/ps3/...etc so any assumed correction by the software will just make things worse. Better to use a properly encoded source like getgray.

Well, if you can't trust the display to transform colors properly, why are you worried about calibrating it? Presumably the display does at least a consistent job, then you calibrate it to get the correct results. This is just modifying the xyY values you read with the sensor. rader's spreadsheet does it easily enough, so figured HCFR could do the same.

Speaking of which, are there any plans to produce an NTSC version of the HCFR disk? I should probably just get a getgray... geeze you'd think two different calibration disks would be enough for somebody who just does this casually!!

Well, if you can't trust the display to transform colors properly, why are you worried about calibrating it?

You just stated the primary reason calibration is required. Because each piece of equipment in the calibration chain modifies the source material in unknown ways you have to calibrate it to reference material if you want an accurate reproduction of the source material.

Right. But they should all do their unknown transform *reliably* and *repeatably*. If not, there's no point in calibrating because it won't be the same tomorrow. If they are repeatable, then you should be able to apply one more step of transform to the measured results and modify the final numbers.

Right. But they should all do their unknown transform *reliably* and *repeatably*. If not, there's no point in calibrating because it won't be the same tomorrow.

Yes, short-term repeatability is required. You do have to recalibrate over longer timescales as components drift.


If they are repeatable, then you should be able to apply one more step of transform to the measured results and modify the final numbers.

I don't know what this means, there is no shortcut to get around inaccurate reference material. You could of course calibrate against a good reference and then calibrate against a bad reference, recalibrate your sensor to make the two agree and use the bad reference but I don't see the point.

I used the HCFR PAL version on my NN208 to set my grayscale and it worked fine. Not sure why you need a NTSC version to do it. I didn't want to use my copies of Avia or DVE for the same reasons you have Gary. Although I have read posts by some experienced calibrators that they(Avia/DVE) aren't as bad as some make it out to be. I know Micheal won't use them.

Walter, you used a PAL DVD ISO?? I can't find specs for the NVD208 -- does it accept PAL?

There's nothing wrong with DVE except it's a pain to use, and it doesn't have 0-100IRE window patterns. Avia is OK except it's 4:3, and it has the low-IRE problem. Which is actually pretty small.

zoyd, rader's spreadsheet applies different correction factors to R/G/B at each IRE level. I don't know where he got his factors, but he might have computed them from the 1-bit chroma errors. Shouldn't be rocket science, should it? I'm *assuming* it works right, but it was always a bit moot because my Minolta colorimeter (which I used with that spreadsheet) couldn't read the low IREs anyway. HCFR can, so it would be nice if it could make the same correction.

Please search for the rader sheet thread. Several have posted errors that they've found in the content.

best,
jeff

zoyd, rader's spreadsheet applies different correction factors to R/G/B at each IRE level. I don't know where he got his factors, but he might have computed them from the 1-bit chroma errors. Shouldn't be rocket science, should it? I'm *assuming* it works right, but it was always a bit moot because my Minolta colorimeter (which I used with that spreadsheet) couldn't read the low IREs anyway. HCFR can, so it would be nice if it could make the same correction.

Well, we've come full circle on this one. In order for rader to calculate RGB corrections he has to assume a chroma to RGB transform. Vendors muck in various ways with the transform itself and/or downstream of the transform to create their focus group tested marketing effects so the original assumption is invalid, you can't do it.

I get more accurate readings in real time than if I do the 10 step grey-scale reading in HCFR. No idea why.

So do I ....

Real time temp is near perfect and step grayscale is a little off. Which should I thrust?

So do I ....

Real time temp is near perfect and step grayscale is a little off. Which should I thrust?

Can you give an example of what you mean, with numbers? There should be no difference between a real-time measure and a step measure other than the stability of the probe and/or the display.

I will need to do a measurement run this weekend with numbers to show you. The wife is going out of town, so I'll be able to play. There is a definate difference between the 10 step readings and the continuous measures readings. Basically if you set up your TV using continuous measures and get a nice flat grey scale, the grey scale will vary by a few hundred degress up and down if you repeat the test using the 10 grey step measures where you are prompted to go to from 0 IRE to 100 IRE.

I will need to do a measurement run this weekend with numbers to show you. The wife is going out of town, so I'll be able to play. There is a definate difference between the 10 step readings and the continuous measures readings. Basically if you set up your TV using continuous measures and get a nice flat grey scale, the grey scale will vary by a few hundred degress up and down if you repeat the test using the 10 grey step measures where you are prompted to go to from 0 IRE to 100 IRE.

Hi Todd,

Yes, I'd like to see that, thanks.

Basically if you set up your TV using continuous measures and get a nice flat grey scale, the grey scale will vary by a few hundred degress up and down if you repeat the test using the 10 grey step measures where you are prompted to go to from 0 IRE to 100 IRE.

Same here...

..There is a definate difference between the 10 step readings and the continuous measures readings. I have never done a test to compare 10 step vs. continuous, but I think the perceived differences may be attributable to 2 things:

1) The Continuous Measures graph opens in a small window and/or the scale is from 0-200%. This makes the RGB levels look much closer than they really are, and when you switch back to the Gray Scale graph, the distances are more apparent. You can verify this by looking at the numbers in the Measures box when you stop, and see how far you are from .3127, .329 xy. Solution: Increase the Continuous Measures window size and/or right click on the window and change the scale to 50-150%. You can also change the scale with the + and - keys on the Numeric Pad on your keyboard. Also, set your Gray Scale graph to the same scale as the Continuous graph.

2) You make changes to the drives/cuts while reading one or two IRE levels in Continuous Measure mode, but then don't check the final effect of the adjustments from 10-100% again. Solution: Always run Continuous Measure reads from 10-100% (or at least 30-100%) after you make any drive/cut change, as both can have an effect at both ends of the scale.

Guys..need some advice here...

I have a Spyder2 and a Eyeone Display2....surely I dont need both....right?

I have a few buyers interesteed in the S2 for a good price...infact what I paid for it, so I get my money back...

Can anyone give me a reason to NOT sell the Spyder2???

Can anyone give me a reason to NOT sell the Spyder2???Since you have a Bravia LCD display, here's some possible reasons:
1 - You need to calibrate a friend's plasma and the S2 will let you know if you are in the ballpark compared to the D2 using HCFR/Zoyd's Sensor Matrix. (And with access to a plasma now, you can make your own S2 to D2 plasma sensor matrix - you can use that to have the D2 emulate the S2, making this moot).
2 - You are obsessed with these things like I am (I have 3 and think I want the TAOS and the D2 now too :D ).
3 - You need a funny looking paperweight with a silver tail.

I was wondering if anyone has any problems with the eye one not working with the software? When I select the eye one as the sensor, it tells me that it cannot find the dll file, but it is installed. Anyone have any insight?

I was wondering if anyone has any problems with the eye one not working with the software? When I select the eye one as the sensor, it tells me that it cannot find the dll file, but it is installed. Anyone have any insight?

You need to copy the dll to ColorHCFR's main directory so that the .exe can see it.

I was wondering if anyone has any problems with the eye one not working with the software? When I select the eye one as the sensor, it tells me that it cannot find the dll file, but it is installed. Anyone have any insight?

Did you copy that .DLL from the Eyeone folder to the HCFR folder where the exe file is at? if not, you have to do that for it to work with HCFR

I have never done a test to compare 10 step vs. continuous, but I think the perceived differences may be attributable to 2 things:

1) The Continuous Measures graph opens in a small window and/or the scale is from 0-200%. This makes the RGB levels look much closer than they really are, and when you switch back to the Gray Scale graph, the distances are more apparent. You can verify this by looking at the numbers in the Measures box when you stop, and see how far you are from .3127, .329 xy. Solution: Increase the Continuous Measures window size and/or right click on the window and change the scale to 50-150%. You can also change the scale with the + and - keys on the Numeric Pad on your keyboard. Also, set your Gray Scale graph to the same scale as the Continuous graph.

2) You make changes to the drives/cuts while reading one or two IRE levels in Continuous Measure mode, but then don't check the final effect of the adjustments from 10-100% again. Solution: Always run Continuous Measure reads from 10-100% (or at least 30-100%) after you make any drive/cut change, as both can have an effect at both ends of the scale.

Your first deduction was spot on! Thanks

...
2 - You are obsessed with these things like I am (I have 3 and think I want the TAOS and the D2 now too :D ).
...

Have you ever heard the adage "A man with one watch knows what time it is, a man with two watches is never sure"?;)

-Steve

Have you ever heard the adage "A man with one watch knows what time it is, a man with two watches is never sure"?;)

-Steve

That's why you need a third, to referee. :)

Have you ever heard the adage "A man with one watch knows what time it is, a man with two watches is never sure"?;)

-SteveNope, never heard that one before. Cracked me up though.

Dave

I am having a problem with my Spyder2 driver.

* When the Spyder2 is plugged in, the driver won't let Windows go into standby. I have to unplug the Spyder to put the system to sleep.
* When I wake up the PC again and plug in the Spyder again, I get a "bum-bum-bum" sound instead of the "ba-doink" you usually get when you plug in a USB device. HCFR can't talk to it. If I view it in the Device Manager, the Spyder2 has a yellow "!" on it. I have to uninstall the Spyder2 and reboot before I can use it again.

What am I doing wrong?

If HCFR is open and has opened the spyder dll you can't put the machine to sleep, exit HCFR and all is well. At least thats how is works on my machine.

Hallo,

I am a newbie to the forum and to calibration.

Could someone please give me some very detailed instructions on how to use HCFR software with eye one colorimeter? And I mean from the begining. It is way too complicated for me. I don't understand all these numbers and I don't know what I should do to change them (and what the numbers should be like).

Thank you in advance.

Hallo,

I am a newbie to the forum and to calibration.

Could someone please give me some very detailed instructions on how to use HCFR software with eye one colorimeter? And I mean from the begining. It is way too complicated for me. I don't understand all these numbers and I don't know what I should do to change them (and what the numbers should be like).

Thank you in advance.

Hi cospan,

Forum users are always happy (pretty much :) ) to answer specific questions when you run into problems using hardware and/or software but calibration software like HCFR is not for the beginner. You could start with one of the calibration DVD's available which walk you through various basic calibration steps if you don't feel comfortable teaching yourself how to use the DIY stuff.

Good find and thanks for the work onthe translation! Thanks.

Phil
:)

Hi cospan,

Forum users are always happy (pretty much :) ) to answer specific questions when you run into problems using hardware and/or software but calibration software like HCFR is not for the beginner. You could start with one of the calibration DVD's available which walk you through various basic calibration steps if you don't feel comfortable teaching yourself how to use the DIY stuff.


I have used the DVE software but I am not satisfied. That's why I bought Eye One (to use it with HCFR). I have adjusted my monitors with the eye one software but it is not for TVs.

I have used the DVE software but I am not satisfied. That's why I bought Eye One (to use it with HCFR). I have adjusted my monitors with the eye one software but it is not for TVs.

ok, first step:
Do you know how to adjust your display's gray scale?

I have used the DVE software but I am not satisfied. That's why I bought Eye One (to use it with HCFR). I have adjusted my monitors with the eye one software but it is not for TVs. A forum member created a step-by-step guide here:http://geekwithfamily.com/2006/12/16/home-theater/howto-hcfr-free-video-projector-calibration-software/. Although it is for a front projector calibration using the Spyder2, in general the basic steps apply to all displays, with the exception of the sensor, dll file, sensor placement, and his PVC pipe add-on. Instead of following the instructions to copy the cvspyder.dll, you need to copy the eyeone.dll to the HCFR folder.

EDIT: And as Zoyd pointed out, you really need to know how to access your display's RGB drives and cuts to adjust gray scale, and you should have some idea of what these controls do.
NOTE: The step-by-step link above (I didn't write it) has some statements that are inaccurate, so use it as a general guideline to set up your sensor and run measurements. Experience and common sense will aid in learning how to make accurate measurements and adjustments. And you can always post your saved 'chc' files in the "Post your calibration..." (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=786966) thread and get advice from others.

ok, first step:
Do you know how to adjust your display's gray scale?


I have an AMOI Advent 37". I don't thing I can adjust the greyscale seperately. I can adjust RGB temperature, RGB offset, and of course brightness, contrast and color (saturation).

I have an AMOI Advent 37". I don't thing I can adjust the greyscale seperately. I can adjust RGB temperature, RGB offset, and of course brightness, contrast and color (saturation).

If there are separate controls for R, G, and B (temp. and offset) then yes, you can adjust your grayscale. Start with the link jd suggested. You will also need a disk with gray patterns, the easiest one to use with HCFR is getgray (http://calibrate.tv/)

Looks like that display is sold in Germany, maybe the rest of Europe. So, if you have a DVD player that can play PAL DVD's, and you have DVD-burner, you can also use the HCFR DVD . The download link to the ISO file is in the first post of this thread, it is:http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/release/DVD_V1.1.5.ISO

If there are separate controls for R, G, and B (temp. and offset) then yes, you can adjust your grayscale. Start with the link jd suggested. You will also need a disk with gray patterns, the easiest one to use with HCFR is


Is this Getgray only NTSC or it is available for PAL? In this link I see only NTSC patterns.

Looks like that display is sold in Germany, maybe the rest of Europe. So, if you have a DVD player that can play PAL DVD's, and you have DVD-burner, you can also use the HCFR DVD . The download link to the ISO file is in the first post of this thread, it is:http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/release/DVD_V1.1.5.ISO


I have already done that.

I have already done that. Okay, so I guess you can play the HCFR DVD on your player. You can follow the instructions in the link I gave you, substituting the HCFR DVD where he instructs you to use the GetGray DVD, and you are all set. The HCFR disk is in French, and you first select the Display type from the menu - "TV/Plasma/Retroprojecteur" then select "Reglages" (english-'Adjustments')
, then 'Mires de reglages' ('test cards of adjustments'). The Mires de Reglages contains menu selections for 0 - 100 IRE, primaries, and secondaries tests cards used by the software.

Also, the GetGray PAL version does exist...this is clearly stated in the calibrate.tv link.

Feature request: I would sure like a "notes" section in the .chc file so I could record details of date/time, setup specifics, what I just changed, etc. There's only so much you can encode into filenames, and having to run a separate list of "which file means what" is a pain.

Feature request: I would sure like a "notes" section in the .chc file so I could record details of date/time, setup specifics, what I just changed, etc. There's only so much you can encode into filenames, and having to run a separate list of "which file means what" is a pain.

That's already there- See the small 'info' window on the measures document session.

Dave

Aha. Figured it HAD to be somewhere, but I was looking in the wrong place. Thanks!

[QUOTE=jdbimmer]A forum member created a step-by-step guide here:http://geekwithfamily.com/2006/12/16/home-theater/howto-hcfr-free-video-projector-calibration-software/.

What does mean:
"HCFR reads gamma differently than we’re used to: its 2.2 is really 2.5–6 (too dark); when you select “from standard” just match the curve in the gamma chart, the number you’re shooting for (to achieve the 2.2 HDTV gamma target) is around 1.9. "

Is it still actual? Is it some kind of error in this software?

What does mean:
"HCFR reads gamma differently than we’re used to: its 2.2 is really 2.5–6 (too dark); when you select “from standard” just match the curve in the gamma chart, the number you’re shooting for (to achieve the 2.2 HDTV gamma target) is around 1.9. "

Is it still actual? Is it some kind of error in this software?

That is an error in the guide. HCFR does not read gamma, it fits the luminance curve with a choice of 5 different functions. Each function has an exponential term (gamma) and you can get different gamma's depending on which function you choose. The standard for setting gamma is 2.5 (HDTV is encoded with gamma=2.22 with the assumption that it will be viewed in a dark environment with display gamma of 2.5). But where you end up with gamma depends on your equipment and viewing preferences, there is nothing wrong with setting it at 2.2, 2.3, 2.5, etc.

As far as which function to choose to fit the luminance curve my opinion is to choose the one that best fits the measured data, this is usually (but not always), optimized regression.


btw JD, I don't know if you have read that guide but it is choc-full of errors like this one.

That's a very good answer ;)

--Patrice

btw JD, I don't know if you have read that guide but it is choc-full of errors like this one. Well, I read enough of it to see some errors, but some are meaningless, and it's the only thing anyone published that has most of the "click on this, then do that and then this happens" stuff in there to get a beginner started. I think HCFR is intuitive enough that most people can figure it out themselves once they get past the measuring process.

..and it's much easier to give the link then write one myself :).

I would suggest an official guide that would provide help to all novice users in their first steps (like me). I am not talking about something difficult (and time consuming) but 3-4 pages of explanations, suggestions and step by step help would boost this very good software. Also a FAQ would be very helpful. It is virtually impossible to read the 86 pages of this thread and search for an answer.

Well, I read enough of it to see some errors, but some are meaningless, and it's the only thing anyone published that has most of the "click on this, then do that and then this happens" stuff in there to get a beginner started. I think HCFR is intuitive enough that most people can figure it out themselves once they get past the measuring process.

..and it's much easier to give the link then write one myself :).

yup, it's got the how-to basics in software operation but don't take everything in it as gospel.

Zoyd, I went back added a note to my original post to clarify that.

Patrice, do you have a new step-by-step "ColorHCFR pour les nuls" that we could translate to English? By the way, I like the way that phrase translates to english as "ColorHCFR for the null ones" - that is very funny. :)

I think it translate as "ColorHCFR for dummies"... :D At least it is a analogy to a very famous book line in France that I think is originated from US !

So far ve have nearly completed the v2.0 feature set, we are now in the documentation update process and, hopefully, a step by step guide (or "simple" mode) should appear soon.

--Patrice

I think it translate as "ColorHCFR for dummies"--Patrice Yes, but I think Google's literal translation "for the null ones:confused:" is even better.

Yes, but I think Google's literal translation "for the null ones:confused:" is even better.

Great new sitcom idea: The null ones.

[nul] Noun, masculine (a) (Infml) dead loss, dropout; "les modems pour les ~s" "modems for dummies"

What does mean:
"HCFR reads gamma differently than we’re used to: its 2.2 is really 2.5–6 (too dark); when you select “from standard” just match the curve in the gamma chart, the number you’re shooting for (to achieve the 2.2 HDTV gamma target) is around 1.9. "

Is it still actual? Is it some kind of error in this software?
That statement was based on ColorHCFR's first release that didn't include the various gamma functions. The 1.9 came from something like this comparison (http://www.datapopuli.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=285) (last 2 posts).

It doesn't apply with today's version.

I think it translate as "ColorHCFR for dummies"... :D At least it is a analogy to a very famous book line in France that I think is originated from US !

So far ve have nearly completed the v2.0 feature set, we are now in the documentation update process and, hopefully, a step by step guide (or "simple" mode) should appear soon.

--Patrice


Thank you in the name of all newbies :D :) :D

Hi guys,

a few questions:

I calibrated my TV using the HD patterns linked at the beginning of this thread with the Rec 709 option in HCFR.
Is it possible to use Getgray or DVE to calibrate HD?
Can I use the Rec 709 setting in HCFR and still use Getgray or DVE patterns?
Or do I have to use the Rec 601 setting to calibrate for SD only with those DVDs?
Also my 360 upscales DVDs through HDMI, can this possibly affect color integrity?

Hi guys,

a few questions:

I calibrated my TV using the HD patterns linked at the beginning of this thread with the Rec 709 option in HCFR.
Is it possible to use Getgray or DVE to calibrate HD?
Can I use the Rec 709 setting in HCFR and still use Getgray or DVE patterns?
Or do I have to use the Rec 601 setting to calibrate for SD only with those DVDs?
Also my 360 upscales DVDs through HDMI, can this possibly affect color integrity?

You can use SD patterns for HD gray scale calibration, gray is the same in all color spaces. For getting the locations of the primaries and secondaries correct it all depends on what your upscaling DVD player does with the colorspace. Mine sends Rec709 when in 720p/1080i mode so I use it for Rec709 calibrations. I use the 480p output for Rec601 calibration.

Hi zoyd,

Does that mean the red pattern for exemple is the exact same for both SD and HD but is being processed (displayed) a bit differently in SD and HD according to their respective colorspace? So that for primary colors, I would have to use Rec 601 if those are sent at 480p and Rec 709 if sent at 720p/1080i assuming that my player handles colors space like yours?

How do I know if the xbox360 sends Rec 709 when upscaling?

Thanks :)

Hi zoyd,
Does that mean the red pattern for exemple is the exact same for both SD and HD but is being processed (displayed) a bit differently in SD and HD according to their respective colorspace?

Sort of, red (or any pattern) is encoded Rec601 on NTSC (SD) disks and in Rec709 on HD disks. The player decides how to present it to the display. It should twist 601 to 709 when outputting in HD resolutions.


So that for primary colors, I would have to use Rec 601 if those are sent at 480p and Rec 709 if sent at 720p/1080i assuming that my player handles colors space like yours?


yes



How do I know if the xbox360 sends Rec 709 when upscaling?

Thanks :)
Don't know, some other xbox owners may have info on this.

You can use SD patterns for HD gray scale calibration, it all depends on what your upscaling DVD player does with the colorspace. Mine sends Rec709 when in 720p/1080i mode so I use it for Rec709 calibrations. I use the 480p output for Rec601 calibration.


If this is the case, does it even matter if you select rec709 or Rec601 in HCFR before a calibration? Do reading actually change if one is to select eirther Colorspace before the calibration? I thought it was just a template that will show you which one you MAY be outputting.

Then I guess it's better for me to use those linked mpg patterns (.rar archive) in the first post of this thread to get the most out of my HD calibration for primaries and secondaries...

If this is the case, does it even matter if you select rec709 or Rec601 in HCFR before a calibration? Do reading actually change if one is to select eirther Colorspace before the calibration? I thought it was just a template that will show you which one you MAY be outputting.

yes you're right, my comment was confusing. The setting you use has no effect on gray scale, just for primaries/secondaries location.

I Received my X-Rite DTP-94 today, but there were no Drivers cd with it. I so really ned the XdsIII.dll to get started.

Can some friendly sole send it to me, or direct me to a place that has is? :)

I Received my X-Rite DTP-94 today, but there were no Drivers cd with it. I so really ned the XdsIII.dll to get started.

Can some friendly sole send it to me, or direct me to a place that has is? :)
Xrite's free ToolCrib utility includes the DLL file:
http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?Industry=21&Segment=4&ID=489&Action=Support&SoftwareID=612

Edit: If the Windows hardware wizard prompts you for a USB device driver, enter
C:\Program Files\X-Rite\Tools\ToolCrib\USB Driver\XrUsbUnified.inf or
C:\Program Files\X-Rite\Tools\ToolCrib\USB Driver\XrUsb.inf....I think they both work, but the unified version is newer. There are also 64 bit drivers for Vista.

Hey guys,

I really need some help. I was using a Spyder2 with HCFR and everything was working fine. I decided to return it and get a better sensor. I got a really good price on a Monaco Optix XR system, and since that is the sensor(DTP-94) the HCFR guys most recommend, I bought it. I installed the software and copied the dll file to the HCFR folder. First I tried the Optix program and it worked fine. I then tried HCFR and when I got to the configure section, things started going wrong. When I clicked the blacklevel calibration button, it told me it would take 8 seconds, and when I continued, nothing happened for a few seconds. Then the pointer turned to an hourglass, and that was it. The only way out was to close HCFR, which it said was not responding, and start over. The same thing happened if I skipped calibration and tried temperature reading, or if I skipped right to the main reading screen and tried to take a measurement. I've already uninstalled and reinstalled everything, so I'm pretty sure I got that part right. Also, after HCFR malfunctions, if I go back to the Optix progem, it gets stuck the same way on the second page. I have to CTRL-ALT-DEL to exit the program. Anyone have any ideas? I'll admit I haven't read through more than about half of the 87 pages in this thread, so if this has been covered, please forgive me and direct me to the answer. I would greatly appreciate it.

Rob

Rob,

What flavor of Windows are you running - XP, 2000, Vista? And what is the version and date of the XdsIII.dll file? What version is the USB driver?

I'm using XP and the version of the dll file is 1.0.0.51. I'm not sure of the date or the USB driver version. How do I find those?

Rob

1.0.0.51 is ancient. 1.2.0.0 XdsIII.dll is the latest and availalbe with the version 5.0.14 toolcrib v5 from xrite:
http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?Industry=4&Segment=6&ID=489&Action=Support

The lastest driver is also availble in the download. the usb driver should be 2.1.2.0 XrUsb.sys.

I'm using XP and the version of the dll file is 1.0.0.51. I'm not sure of the date or the USB driver version. How do I find those?

RobGet the latest DLL version 1.2.0.0 and driver by downloading & installing xrite's free Toolcrib utility: ToolCrib v.5.0.14 (http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?Industry=4&Segment=6&ID=489&Action=Support&SoftwareID=612)
If that doesn't work, try the previous version: v5.0.11 (http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?Industry=4&Segment=6&ID=489&Action=Support&SoftwareID=354) (this is probably the version HCFR was tested with so you may want to go with that first)

You will need to copy the xdsIII.dll from C:\Program Files\X-Rite\Tools\ToolCrib to C:\Program Files\Colorimeter_HCFR.

I don't know if the Toolcrib installation will automatically update the USB driver unless the Monaco software is uninstalled. If necessary, updating this driver manually is a bit trickier:
Plug in the DTP94
Open XP's System Properties (Start->Control Panel->System Properties)
Select the Hardware Tab
Click on Device Manager
Open the Universal Serial Bus controllers tree
Double Click on X-rite DTP94
Select the Driver Tab
Click on Update Driver
Select "No, not this time", then "Install from a specific location", then
"Search for best driver in these locations", uncheck "Search Removable", check "Include this location.."
Click on Browse and navigate to "C:\Program Files\X-Rite\Tools\ToolCrib\USB Driver" and press Okay.
Press Next and select either the 2.1.2.0 (from Toolcrib 5.0.11) or 3.1.0.0 driver (from 5.0.14).
Press Next and then Finish.
...and maybe reboot just to be sure.

BTW, I think version 5.0.14 only fixes a Windows Vista issue, so .11 should be fine.

EDIT: I see Jeff beat me to it :)

O.K., so I downloaded and ran the tool crib and copied the XdsIII.dll file over and it did calibrate the black level. When I tried to do the internal temp reading, it froze up gain. On a hunch, I also copied another file, XdsIIIUtil.dll, and it now seems to work. I won't be able to actually take any measurements till late tonight or tommorrow, but I'm anxious to compare readings to the Spyder. I hope it all works. Thanks fellas!

Rob

O.K., so I downloaded and ran the tool crib and copied the XdsIII.dll file over and it did calibrate the black level. When I tried to do the internal temp reading, it froze up gain. On a hunch, I also copied another file, XdsIIIUtil.dll, and it now seems to work. I won't be able to actually take any measurements till late tonight or tommorrow, but I'm anxious to compare readings to the Spyder. I hope it all works. Thanks fellas!

Rob
If it keeps freezing up, try the crazy USB driver instructions above. You probably have the ancient version of that too.

Hey guys,

I really need some help. I was using a Spyder2 with HCFR and everything was working fine. I decided to return it and get a better sensor. I got a really good price on a Monaco Optix XR system, and since that is the sensor(DTP-94) the HCFR guys most recommend, I bought it. I installed the software and copied the dll file to the HCFR folder. First I tried the Optix program and it worked fine. I then tried HCFR and when I got to the configure section, things started going wrong. When I clicked the blacklevel calibration button, it told me it would take 8 seconds, and when I continued, nothing happened for a few seconds. Then the pointer turned to an hourglass, and that was it. The only way out was to close HCFR, which it said was not responding, and start over. The same thing happened if I skipped calibration and tried temperature reading, or if I skipped right to the main reading screen and tried to take a measurement. I've already uninstalled and reinstalled everything, so I'm pretty sure I got that part right. Also, after HCFR malfunctions, if I go back to the Optix progem, it gets stuck the same way on the second page. I have to CTRL-ALT-DEL to exit the program. Anyone have any ideas? I'll admit I haven't read through more than about half of the 87 pages in this thread, so if this has been covered, please forgive me and direct me to the answer. I would greatly appreciate it.

Rob

I had very similar problems to yours and they went away after I replaced the xrusb files for the DTP94. Just used the latest one available from the Toocrib in the XR site . Use this link. Download Windows version. Replace file xrusb C:\Program Files\X-Rite\Tools\ToolCrib\USB Driver\XrUsbUnified.inf
Good luck
Fermin

http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?Industry=1&Segment=10&ID=489&Action=Support&SoftwareID=612

Hey guys,
I got everything working and did some measurements today. Here's some observations comparing the Spyder2 to the DTP-94. The color gamut had some very minor differences, but green measured way off. The DTP measured way more yellow than the Spyder, but the pj was at it's limit, so I couldn't adjust it any more towards cyan anyway. The greyscale, which was almost perfectly flat/6500 with the Spyder, measured about 7300 with the DTP, but still perfectly flat. When I redid the greyscale, I couldn't get it as flat as I had with the Spyder. When I flipped between the two settings with a greyscale up, the DTP looked a little red. I assume this is because I had to raise the red controls to get the greyscale right. All in all, I'm not sure the DTP is doing as good a job as the Spyder. It is faster though. One other thing, when I do continuous measurements, it jumps all over the place. The dE readings can vary by as much as 5 or 6 in a matter of several seconds. I never get the same reading twice in a row, even if I'm not moving the controls. The Spyder was rock solid and only moved if I adjusted the pj. Has anyone else had this type of experience? I thought the Spyder was of a little off at the lower IREs, But if the DTP is right (which I'm not sure of) mine seems to be off, top to bottom. Also, the jumping around thing is really annoying as I use continuous measurements to do most of the actual calibrating. I might have to go back to the Spyder, or try the Eye1.

Rob

Did you calibrate the dtp94 before taking any readings?

I don't have any first hand experience with the s2 only the dtp94. The issues you report with it, I've never seen. It should be at least as solid as the s2. if you look back through others experience with the dtp94, it is *very* different than yours.

I did play with an older beta of hcfr and the continuous measurements did not jump around. did you buy the probe new?

jeff

Rob,

I'm not sure which mode (CRT/LCD) you should be using for what I am assuming is a DLP projector, but that may make a difference. Also, you may want to check the DTP94 by measuring your PC CRT or LCD monitor and see if Continuous Measures are stable. And I recommend updating the USB driver per my post above if you haven't already done so - they release the DLL and the USB as a pair for a reason.

I did update the USB driver and dll files with the latest toolcrib (5.0.14). I calibrated the blacklevel as prompted by the HCFR software. Is there another calibration procedure? I tried LCD, CRT, and NONE modes and they were all very similar, so I stayed with LCD. I'm going to try the older version of Toolcrib (5.0.11) and see if that helps. The sensor was new. I just tried it on my laptop and the continuous measurements did not jump around. Any ideas as to what might be causing this with the DLP pj?

Rob

Any ideas as to what might be causing this with the DLP pj?
I don't have any experience with front projectors, so I can't be of much help here. I do know the DTP94 does not have a diffuser, so that may be part of the problem, or it just may be a matter of using the right technique - probe placement, facing the screen, facing the project..etc. Should be lots of people here who can help.

Any further progress on the D2 plasma issues?

I still don't know if I should get rid of the S2 or just keep it...and the D2...

need any beta testers for v2? ;)

Looks like the jumping around problem is the lack of a diffuser. When I pointed it at the screen, it was rock solid. Unfortunately, the light levels are so low it takes forever to get a reading at the lower IREs. I'm emailing the headquarters to find out how to get the optional diffuser that is apparently available. The good news is that off the screen readings from 40-100IRE are almost identical to the Spyder2 readings from the pj. 20IRE is quite a bit off, though.

Rob

More updates. After a couple of very minor adjustments to the greyscale and color gamut, I'm back to D65. The below 40IRE error wasn't that bad. +2 for Red Offset and +2 for Green Gain got everything back in line with less than 2 dE from 20-100IRE ( DVE only does 0,20,40,60,80,100IREs). Also, some minor Hue tweaks to Yellow(+6) and Magenta(+2). When I flip between the new settings and the old Syder settings, the only place I can spot any difference whatever, is in the yellows, which are ever so slightly brighter and more green now. So, except in cases where one needs extreme accuracy, beyond what can be easily seen with the eyes, the Spyder2 should be fine for DLP front pjs. Also, the diffuser for the DTP-94 is not available, so says X-Rite headquarters. I'm now torn between spending more money trying to find a diffuser that won't mess with the colors and hopefully bring back the processing speed, or selling the Monaco system and going back to the Spyder, for less than half the price. Thanks again for all the help guys.

Rob

DVE only does 0,20,40,60,80,100IREs
Rob They are not easy to navigate to, but all the patterns should be in Title 17, chapters 29 through 48. See this description for more info:http://www.videoessentials.com/VEtestpat.php

Thanks, but that's VE, I've got DVE.

Rob

You are right..sorry about that.

Also, the diffuser for the DTP-94 is not available, so says X-Rite headquarters.

Rob

You can use one of these (http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productID=1671) as a color neutral diffuser.

I was looking at those, and at the ground glass ones. It seems the site recommends the ground glass for maximum transmission. There's no specs for either, though, concerning transmission or neutrality. I probably could use one, but I would never get accurate min/max light level readings. Can anyone confirm that the Display LT/2 comes with a diffuser? It comes with some kind of ambient light attachment, but I'm not sure if that's it.

Rob

I was looking at those, and at the ground glass ones. It seems the site recommends the ground glass for maximum transmission. There's no specs for either, though, concerning transmission or neutrality. I probably could use one, but I would never get accurate min/max light level readings. Can anyone confirm that the Display LT/2 comes with a diffuser? It comes with some kind of ambient light attachment, but I'm not sure if that's it.

Rob

Either ground glass or flashed opal will be spectrally flat over this range, the ground glass is less lambertian so you'll get higher throughput. The D2/LT comes with a plastic diffuser, I don't have an FP so I've never used it.

Either ground glass or flashed opal will be spectrally flat over this range, the ground glass is less lambertian so you'll get higher throughput. The D2/LT comes with a plastic diffuser, I don't have an FP so I've never used it.


Thanks, I guess I'll give the ground glass a shot. I have to order some anti-reflective glass anyway, for my pj porthole, so another $8 isn't a big deal.

Rob

Hey guys. So what's the latest on version 2.0? I'm itching to see the new version ;-)!

Thanks!
Carmine.

I recently starded my misson to calibrate my LCD (LG LB1R)

.... on the way some questions came along. doh! :)


The pic attached shows my gamma. I belive that the high gamma readings are due black crush. Just having set the brightness to low. Or/And can this depend on something else maby?

Just trying to work out how bright is my projector. Any body knows the unit of Luminance reported by HCFR? I am using Display LT.

Cheers,
JM

I believe it is cd/m^2, which is candela per meter squared.

Others may be able to elaborate.

Here is a quote from someone smarter than me:

For a calibrated luminance meter (no diffuser) yes, Y=cd/m^2=lumens/m^2/steradian. The reading should not change as you change the distance to the target as long as the target always fills the field of view of the probe. When you want to read the light incident on a target(illuminance) you use a lux meter which incorporates a diffuser. The units are lux=lumens/m^2 and the signal will vary as 1/r^2 where r is the distance to your source.

Sorry for an this ignorant post so late in the thread, but I read about 10 pages of this thread and then realized there is no way for me to find what I need in the time I have available.

I am about to embark on calibrating my Mitsubishi HC-5000BL for the first time. From what I can gather I can buy the Spyder 2 Express package that is available locally and then download the links at the beginning of the thread (page 1) to get the free ColorHCFR software, and then I need generator software. First question is the link to the software at the front still valid for the latest version? Second question is will an Avia disc that is about 4 years old have the required color patterns or do I need a different software package for HD/1080p? I only have an Xbox 360 with HD drive or the PS3 to play the DVD. Any help or quick link to get me started would be greatly appreciated.

O.K.guys, here are the results of my DTP-94 diffuser test. I ordered a sandblasted glass diffuser from Edmund Optics for $8:

http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productID=2356

It almost completely eliminated the jumping around effect when trying to measure directly from the pj. Moving to the 220 grit diffuser (this one is 120 grit) might completely eliminate the problem. However, it did affect the colors. My screen is slightly grey, so I used some white copy paper to try to get as close as possible to a white, neutral gain screen, as a standard. As it turns out, there is very little difference between the paper and my screen. The difference in color temperature between reflected readings off the paper and direct readings with the diffuser was about 500 degrees K, the diffuser being lower. So, the diffuser seems to be absorbing/reflecting some of the blue light, lowering the temperature. So, I think I'm going back to the Spyder2. As I said before, the difference between the pictures calibrated by the two sensors was very minor. The only time I could really tell one from the other was if distinct yellow tones were displayed(or color bars), and I flipped back and forth between the two settings. Greyscales were practically indistinguishable. If you want to calibrate a DLP front projector on the cheap, and you have only $65 to spend, order a Spyder2 Express, Download HCFR, and have at it.

Rob

I just got my DTP-94 how to I attach to my Mits 65908 RPCRT? I still have my protector screen on...kids. I had my TV ISF calibrated a few years ago and I would like to see how it is holding up.

I just got my DTP-94 how to I attach to my Mits 65908 RPCRT? I still have my protector screen on...kids. I had my TV ISF calibrated a few years ago and I would like to see how it is holding up.If possible, use the suction cup directly on the screen - it should be attached to the wire or it may still be in the box. When you push the suction cup in, it holds the wire tightly. AND make sure you also have a safety net in case it the suction cup pops off (and it will) - that is, also tape the wire to the top of the TV, use the counterweight, and/or put a pillow underneath the point where it is hanging from the TV.

If possible, use the suction cup directly on the screen - it should be attached to the wire or it may still be in the box. When you push the suction cup in, it holds the wire tightly. AND make sure you also have a safety net in case it the suction cup pops off (and it will) - that is, also tape the wire to the top of the TV, use the counterweight, and/or put a pillow underneath the point where it is hanging from the TV.

Ok I got it. I only got a CD and a read me first piece of paper. I didn't think that the wire would fit into the suction cup and from the piece of paper on the suction cup you do not use it on an LCD screen...Correct?

Ok I got it. I only got a CD and a read me first piece of paper. I didn't think that the wire would fit into the suction cup and from the piece of paper on the suction cup you do not use it on an LCD screen...Correct?
If you squeeze the sides of the suction cup, it opens and you can slip the wire inside the notch. You wouldn't want to use it on an LCD, but I have used it on my Sony RPCRT screen without issue...except that it won't stay on as long as it does on glass....so use the precautions I mentioned above.

Okay, no reply to my last post :)

This is where my calibration ended. A bit of struggling with the secondaries, cus the primaries was not changeable in my set.

I have also attached the .chc file, if someone is interested in browsing my calibration file.

I have used a Lumagen Vision HDP to achieve this results. There is not much of tuning settings in the teli itself.

Next up!
My BenQ 8720 will go a round. Here the ability to change primarys will do good. And the blacklevel is a whole lot better than the LCD's 0.62lum@0IRE :)

Okay, no reply to my last post :)

This is where my calibration ended. A bit of struggling with the secondaries, cus the primaries was not changeable in my set.

I have also attached the .chc file, if someone is interested in browsing my calibration file.

I have used a Lumagen Vision HDP to achieve this results. There is not much of tuning settings in the teli itself.

Next up!
My BenQ 8720 will go a round. Here the ability to change primarys will do good. And the blacklevel is a whole lot better than the LCD's 0.62lum@0IRE :) There is another thread here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=786966 for posting your results. Anyway, your gray scale and gamma using the Lumagen look excellent! It does seem very bright though, 300 nits at 100 IRE?

jdbimmer. Ok, I shall post them over there, later on.

Hmm ok. So maby that's indicate some kind of whitecrusch, or either way some high contrastsettings. I'm quite new to this :)

I'll take it over in the other thread.

Thank's.

jdbimmer. Ok, I shall post them over there, later on.

Hmm ok. So maby that's indicate some kind of whitecrusch, or either way some high contrastsettings. I'm quite new to this :)

I'll take it over in the other thread.

Thank's.

No whitecrush, your gamma is nice and flat. You're pumping out alot of light though so you may be able to get better blacks if you tone it down.

I have read that using when 75% intensity patterns, they should change the setting under sensor calibration. What will this result in? What will be wrong when having the offset set to 100% patterns and measuring 75% patterns?

I have read that using when 75% intensity patterns, they should change the setting under sensor calibration. What will this result in? What will be wrong when having the offset set to 100% patterns and measuring 75% patterns? I don't think the Sensor Calibration "IRE Level Images" setting does anything - even when using the PC as a View Images generator. Maybe it does something when using the HCFR probe and the View Images Generator?

Still itching for version 2.0!!! ;-)

Still itching for version 2.0!!! ;-)
+1. Jonesin

Soon??

Hello everybody

Well, version 2.0 is still under development. I can't say when it will be finished. We planned to put many things inside, so it takes time to develop, test, and document everything. Anyway, I'm quite sure it will be before the end of the year ;)

Georges

Hi,

i have been given some target infromation for setting contrast and ask if anyone could put it into laymens terms for use with HCFR.

I have a 50PHD8 plasma and plan to use normal and cinema settings to produce a easy switchable day and night viewing.

He quoted the following

"For contrast setting, shoot for 30 foot lamberts light output with a 100 IRE window for night time viewing. for the day time, 45 foot lamberts should be ok"

What do the 30 foot and 45 foot lamberts etc... mean in the way of using the live information measures and using the luminance level reading?

Thanks.

Hi,

i have been given some target infromation for setting contrast and ask if anyone could put it into laymens terms for use with HCFR.

I have a 50PHD8 plasma and plan to use normal and cinema settings to produce a easy switchable day and night viewing.

He quoted the following

"For contrast setting, shoot for 30 foot lamberts light output with a 100 IRE window for night time viewing. for the day time, 45 foot lamberts should be ok"

What do the 30 foot and 45 foot lamberts etc... mean in the way of using the live information measures and using the luminance level reading?

Thanks.
If you are using nits in the software, just multiply by 3.42. 30 Foot lamberts is around 100 nits and 45 is around 150. This is what you should aim for with a 100 IRE window pattern.

If you are using nits in the software, just multiply by 3.42. 30 Foot lamberts is around 100 nits and 45 is around 150. This is what you should aim for with a 100 IRE window pattern.

Nits?

Sorry for being a noob but what are and how do you use nits in HCFR?

Thanks.

Just seen your name, thanks carl!

Nits?

Sorry for being a noob but what are and how do you use nits in HCFR?

Thanks.

Just seen your name, thanks carl!
It's the same as meter lamberts. I think that's what HCFR refers to as Y by default.

It's the same as meter lamberts. I think that's what HCFR refers to as Y by default.


Just found that reference in the live measures!

Thanks for the help/Support! :)

Is there some litrature somewhere i can read that will give me a better understanding of this and working out cd/m2 etc... from HCFR readings, as this is a bit of a dark area for me.

Thanks.

Zoyd helped me and suggested i should try for 100 nits with the 100% pattern but after running a full 0-100 test my gamma averages 1.80 and i know i should be looking for 2.2.

Whats wrong here?

I've uploaded my chc file for reference.

Thanks.

Zoyd helped me and suggested i should try for 100 nits with the 100% pattern but after running a full 0-100 test my gamma averages 1.80 and i know i should be looking for 2.2.

Whats wrong here?

I've uploaded my chc file for reference.

Thanks.
Couple of things to try.

1. Reset service menu contrast to default (50 I think) and set contrast in user menu to get 100 nits.
2. Make sure your RGB drives in service has FC hex for the highest one.
3. Make sure your RGB offsets are around 80 hex on average.

If that doesn't help, try gamma 2.5 instead and re-calibrate.

Couple of things to try.

1. Reset service menu contrast to default (50 I think) and set contrast in user menu to get 100 nits.
2. Make sure your RGB drives in service has FC hex for the highest one.
3. Make sure your RGB offsets are around 80 hex on average.

If that doesn't help, try gamma 2.5 instead and re-calibrate.


Checked and no my highest (Green) is at FA and cuts are around 7E, your correct on the sub contrast, lowered mine to 48.

I will start again from scratch with your suggestions, thanks.


It looked like someone has already accessed the service menu as the factory defaults were different from my initial copying down of the settings, before i adjusted.

Do you know what Panel colour is as this was set to 1 but after a factory default (just before calibration) it has changed to 0.


Missus is watching the display at the moment, so i will re-run in about an hour! :(

Checked and no my highest (Green) is at FA and cuts are around 7E, your correct on the sub contrast, lowered mine to 48.

I will start again from scratch with your suggestions, thanks.


It looked like someone has already accessed the service menu as the factory defaults were different from my initial copying down of the settings, before i adjusted.

Do you know what Panel colour is as this was set to 1 but after a factory default (just before calibration) it has changed to 0.


Missus is watching the display at the moment, so i will re-run in about an hour! :(
Set green to FC, since that seems to be your weakest color. Adjust red and blue to compensate. It's recommended in the service manual that the weakest color should always be set at FC, so I guess there is some reason for it. Don't know what Panel Colour does...

Set green to FC, since that seems to be your weakest color. Adjust red and blue to compensate. It's recommended in the service manual that the weakest color should always be set at FC, so I guess there is some reason for it. Don't know what Panel Colour does...


Thanks!

Great info as always. :)

Do you know what Panel colour is as this was set to 1 but after a factory default (just before calibration) it has changed to 0. On my PHD8UK US model, this is 'Aging ->Panel Color', and it has a lot of choices - white, red, green, blue, ramp, etc. Changing this puts some interesting patterns on the screen - it will scare you if you're not expecting it. I have always assumed this is some kind of compensation for long term potential changes in the phosphors and should be left at 0.

On my PHD8UK US model, this is 'Aging ->Panel Color', and it has a lot of choices - white, red, green, blue, ramp, etc. Changing this puts some interesting patterns on the screen - it will scare you if you're not expecting it. I have always assumed this is some kind of compensation for long term potential changes in the phosphors and should be left at 0.

Thanks Jdbimmer,

I have left it alone, thanks for the explanation!

I ran some tests and have now set the gamma in the panel to 2.5, which is now giving me 2.07.

Any suggestions on increasing this further?

I have a additional few questions, sorry.

I watch pal video/film mostly but as my display only accepts 60hz via dvi for pixel mapping, am i still right in choosing Pal for pal and NTSC for NTSC under preferences/references?

Will the FRC from 50 -60 done in my VP have any effect?

Currently i using the Gamma with black compensation setting in references, should i be using optimized regression?

RGB level are set to 16-235 as DVi is RGB is this also correct?

Thanks.

I ran some tests and have now set the gamma in the panel to 2.5, which is now giving me 2.07. Any suggestions on increasing this further?
Currently i using the Gamma with black compensation setting in references, should i be using optimized regression?
With the display set to 2.5, average gamma of 2.06 - 2.08 is about what I get at best using Display Gamma w/Blk Comp. or Optimized Regression, and it looks good at this level. I think Optimized is recommended if it results in a decent curve for your display. I am not the Gamma expert, but yours is relatively flat when looking at it in Logarithmic mode, which is good! I have been experimenting with some of the other controls to improve mine more, but so far I don't have anything conclusive to tell you.

I watch pal video/film mostly but as my display only accepts 60hz via dvi for pixel mapping, am i still right in choosing Pal for pal and NTSC for NTSC under preferences/references? You should choose the HCFR Reference Color Space based on what your measurement reference is. If you are using the PAL GetGray or the PAL HCFR DVD, and your DVD player is converting that to NTSC, than you should use SD-NTSC. However, looking at your CIE Diagram, it looks like your DVD is using PAL(60?), RGB, or HDTV Rec. 709. If you don't have Color and Tint in the user menu, then it is RGB.
(If any of the Color Space experts here in AVSForum have more info, please chime in!)

Will the FRC from 50 -60 done in my VP have any effect?
RGB level are set to 16-235 as DVi is RGB is this also correct? I'm not sure what FRC and VP are (frequency conversion/Video Player?), but I think you are talking about the conversion of PAL 50hz to PAL60/NTSC/HDTV/RGB 60Hz. I think you can only assume that the source is doing this correctly, but if the pixel-mapping is important to you, than so be it. :)
Yes, 16-235 is correct for video.

I ran some tests and have now set the gamma in the panel to 2.5, which is now giving me 2.07.

Any suggestions on increasing this further?

2.07 is by no means a bad gamma average. Assuming it's a even curve it should give you a great picture, possibly even making the set work better with a little more ambient light or during the day.

Thanks guy's.

Jdbimmer,

Sorry, FRC (frame rate conversion) and VP (Video processor).

I have an iscan DVDO VP50 video processor, which this first run of calibrations have been from, not got to the source calibrations yet as i want to get the VP to display set right first.

Because my test patterns are being generated by the Iscan and at 60hz, would this be therefore in NTSC or Pal?

and would i have compensate for source to VP (Pal 50hz) then VP to display is (60hz NTSC or PAL(60)?), any idea's?

Basically if the Iscan is outputting 60hz test patterns, would this be NTSC?


I did a bit more tweaking last night but my end results gave me an even lower gamma average, now at 1.98. Grrrr :confused:

csundbom,

If i increased green drive (weakest colour) which is currently set as per your suggestion to FC but this can go up to FF, would this help with increasing overall gamma, having increased R,B also to compensate for the Green?

When i set my display to 2.5 gamma i was supprised to see that the colour drive and cuts were tracking d65 quite well and only needed a relativley small amount of adjustment. drives are around FA and cuts 80.

Thanks.


Uploaded my last cal file (1.98gamma)from last night, for reference.

csundbom,

If i increased green drive (weakest colour) which is currently set as per your suggestion to FC but this can go up to FF, would this help with increasing overall gamma, having increased R,B also to compensate for the Green?

When i set my display to 2.5 gamma i was supprised to see that the colour drive and cuts were tracking d65 quite well and only needed a relativley small amount of adjustment. drives are around FA and cuts 80.

Thanks.


Uploaded my last cal file (1.98gamma)from last night, for reference.
Something is off in the high end. Make sure that you are using window patterns only to do these measurements, the smaller windows the better. Also, turn off all power saving features on the set. Looks like some limiter is kicking in to prevent full light output at 100 IRE. Keep green at FC for now, do black level in service with the sub-brightness, center brightness in user menu.

Something is off in the high end. Make sure that you are using window patterns only to do these measurements, the smaller windows the better. Also, turn off all power saving features on the set. Looks like some limiter is kicking in to prevent full light output at 100 IRE. Keep green at FC for now, do black level in service with the sub-brightness, center brightness in user menu.


Doing a factory reset may have turned on some unwanted options, so i will re-check the power save settings etc...Thanks.

I can only get windowed patterens on the 10-100ire from the VP50, 0ire, RGBYMC are all full screen.

and will do the brightness as you suggest!

Still confused with the 50-60hz output from the VP RE:setup for Pal or NTSC in sensor settings, any help here?

Hi everybody

About units, I think you don't have to worry about it. Usually, with commercial probes, Y is in cd/m². It's easy to convert it in other units, but it's useless...

When you calibrate your projector, absolute figures for luminance have no meaning. Only the difference between luminance measures have meaning. For any pattern, you can increase or decrease figures simply moving your probe. And with small or big figures, you can have the same results for contrast and gamma (in the sensitivity limits of the proble, of course).

In a short way: do not take to much attention to Y figures, lbut ook at the luminance and gamma curves, they are much more useful ;)

Georges

Run measures all afternoon and my max av gamma is now 2.09.

What i am worried about is the gamma still cuts off after 80ire, checked everything and all Power stuff is off.

Any ides's? :confused:

Run measures all afternoon and my max av gamma is now 2.09.

What i am worried about is the gamma still cuts off after 80ire, checked everything and all Power stuff is off.

Any ides's? :confused:
Maybe try windows from a calibration DVD to see if it makes a difference?

Ok,

Ran HCFR DVD patterns through my Oppo 970 (HDMI), instead of the VP50, windows on the HCFR are miles smaller.

Results are now excellent, reading a lot better now and reaching av-gamma of 2.21.:)

Teaked cuts and gains and now tracking quite well.

Results attached if you could take a look and give me your opinion, would be appreciated!

Thanks.

Ok,

Ran HCFR DVD patterns through my Oppo 970 (HDMI), instead of the VP50, windows on the HCFR are miles smaller.

Results are now excellent, reading a lot better now and reaching av-gamma of 2.21.:)

Teaked cuts and gains and now tracking quite well.

Results attached if you could take a look and give me your opinion, would be appreciated!

Thanks.
Looks like you're done! Nice tracking. Assuming your probe is doing a good job, your picture should be very good.

Looks like you're done! Nice tracking. Assuming your probe is doing a good job, your picture should be very good.


Lovely picture now, nice pure skin tones.

Just need to check my other PS3, Xbox360 sources and some HD cal DVD's.


Thanks everyone for the mass help, very much appreciated!

(1000 X better than the no responses i get from a well known UK Forum, no body wants to know attitude :mad: )

AVS rocks due to its members,

Thank you! :)

Results attached if you could take a look and give me your opinion, would be appreciated! Your results look great. I was mistaken with regard to my gamma - using an HTPC, I get 2.07, but using the Oppo with the HCFR or GetGray DVD and set at 2.5, I get about 2.23, and my PHD8UK's curve looks very similar to yours.

Your gray scale also looks good. If after some critical viewing you think it looks a bit on the green side, you may want to try using the sensor matrix here:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10376484&&#post10376484. I created this to get my DTP94 to emulate my i1 Pro readings using HCFR, since, while better on Plasma than the D2, the DTP94 is still a bit off compared to the i1 Pro. Your primaries are very close to mine, so the matrix should work. The one unknown is how close your DTP94 calibration is to mine, so YMMV. And of course, any changes may be barely perceptable anyway, as we are talking about + .0015x -.003y across the scale, which mean your red and blue levels may need to increase by 2 to 5%.

I don't know much about the DVDO VP50, but the specs say it has tweakable Colorspace and Gamma settings, so you may want to look into that when you put it back into the loop. There are probably some threads here in the AVSForum for more info.

Your results look great. I was mistaken with regard to my gamma - using an HTPC, I get 2.07, but using the Oppo with the HCFR or GetGray DVD and set at 2.5, I get about 2.23, and my PHD8UK's curve looks very similar to yours.

Your gray scale also looks good. If after some critical viewing you think it looks a bit on the green side, you may want to try using the sensor matrix here:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10376484&&#post10376484. I created this to get my DTP94 to emulate my i1 Pro readings using HCFR, since, while better on Plasma than the D2, the DTP94 is still a bit off compared to the i1 Pro. Your primaries are very close to mine, so the matrix should work. The one unknown is how close your DTP94 calibration is to mine, so YMMV. And of course, any changes may be barely perceptable anyway, as we are talking about + .0015x -.003y across the scale, which mean your red and blue levels may need to increase by 2 to 5%.

I don't know much about the DVDO VP50, but the specs say it has tweakable Colorspace and Gamma settings, so you may want to look into that when you put it back into the loop. There are probably some threads here in the AVSForum for more info.

Thanks Jdbimmer,

I will look into your matrix.

I think at the moment the colours actually look excellent on closer images, and i do have very slight hint of green on peoples faces in the backgrounds but this is with the SkyHD viewing(can't calibrate this source), not had chance yet to actually check a movie on the oppo yet .

I never ran the Cal without the VP50 in the chain, had to do - Oppo - VP50 -Display.

The output test patterns from the VP50 have a huge windowed area of roughley around 21 x12 inches for 10 - 100ire patterns only and full screen for 0ire and RBGCMY, which seems to throw the readings off.

HCFR windows as you know are only a few inches in size for everything and give more accuracy in readings.

The VP has normal Con/Bri/Sat settings and only 3 gamma controls 1 each for RGB per input, so i can now only really use these if my other source inputs are out somewhat.

I'm hoping when i measure the rest of the sources and with HD and Bluray test patterns using the 360, PS3 (luckily Sony produced Br movies eg.Casino royale, that have HD test patterns hidden on the disk, accessable by entering the code 7669 at the main menu) that they won't be far out as i'm running out of adjustments.

I'm also trying to plan how i am going to calibrate for NTSC R1 disk playback and squeeze this in, without adjusting the display anymore, knocking out the Calibration already set for PAL?

I am now stuck with another problem if anyone has any idea's here and i'm not sure if this is the VP50 test pattern again?

Now checking Brightness, the VP50 test pattern which uses the common 3 black and 3 white bars (1 BTB and 1 WTW) i am only managing to get 1 white bar and nearly 2 black bars as if the white is being cut again(1st problem with gamma readings), i have to turn the brightness way down to get the second white bar to appear but then i have lost all 3 black bars.

I'm going to try DVE tests for this to see if there's a difference (didn't like the offering from HCFR, though as it's in french i think i could only find 1 brighness setting reference pattern.

Thanks.

I am now stuck with another problem if anyone has any idea's here and i'm not sure if this is the VP50 test pattern again?

Now checking Brightness, the VP50 test pattern which uses the common 3 black and 3 white bars (1 BTB and 1 WTW) i am only managing to get 1 white bar and nearly 2 black bars as if the white is being cut again(1st problem with gamma readings), i have to turn the brightness way down to get the second white bar to appear but then i have lost all 3 black bars. The PHD8 has difficulty displaying that pattern since it 'floats black'. I don't use it, instead I use the separate white and black level patterns and then check it with the gray ramp.
As for the colorspace questions, could it be that the VP50 converts everything to RGB or HD Rec709 depending on its configuration settings?

The PHD8 has difficulty displaying that pattern since it 'floats black'. I don't use it, instead I use the separate white and black level patterns and then check it with the gray ramp.
As for the colorspace questions, could it be that the VP50 converts everything to RGB or HD Rec709 depending on its configuration settings?

Agreed with the floating blacks, i notice that if adjusting brightness the actual output brightness of the PHD8 can rise and fall even though i am turning it down, normally is should get darker and darker not up and down, wierd.

What i have done is set the contrast calibration using HCFR Y reading with 100ire test pattern then lowered Sub brightness in the service menu using a general sky program that had black bars above and below, until no sparklies/dithering is present in the black bars (always done this for brightness).

Do you know if it's possible to accurately set brightness using HCFR live measures' like setting contrast?


Yes the VP50 is converting HDMI YCbCr 444 (from 3 sources) to RGB for the HDMI output - DVI display Input.

I have have thought of try to set the sources to RGB initially and cut out most of any conversion if possible but haven't got round to trying it out yet.

Thanks!

Hi ,

Where do you find the driver for the HCFR probe? I installed it on one of my computers and recall something about having to point to a file when it found new hardware, but I can't find this info again. I just did a new install of XP on my laptop and I'm trying to get it working, is there a new USB dll that I need to add or something?

Thanks

Hi ,

Where do you find the driver for the HCFR probe? I installed it on one of my computers and recall something about having to point to a file when it found new hardware, but I can't find this info again. I just did a new install of XP on my laptop and I'm trying to get it working, is there a new USB dll that I need to add or something?

Thanks


You need to put a copy of the Dll that HCFR asks for into the install directory of the HCFR exec,

Usually in C:\Program Files\Colorimeter_HCFR\

Hi ,

Where do you find the driver for the HCFR probe? I installed it on one of my computers and recall something about having to point to a file when it found new hardware, but I can't find this info again. I just did a new install of XP on my laptop and I'm trying to get it working, is there a new USB dll that I need to add or something?

Thanks
The driver (.inf file) for the HCFR probe is available here:

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/Colorimetre/Sonde/Colorimetre_HCFR.inf

Dave

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the link. So am I correct in saying that when found new hardware asks for the driver you just point it to that file?

Thanks Neonmod

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the link. So am I correct in saying that when found new hardware asks for the driver you just point it to that file?

Thanks Neonmod

Yep.

Ok,

Ran HCFR DVD patterns through my Oppo 970 (HDMI), instead of the VP50, windows on the HCFR are miles smaller.

Results are now excellent, reading a lot better now and reaching av-gamma of 2.21.:)

Teaked cuts and gains and now tracking quite well.

Results attached if you could take a look and give me your opinion, would be appreciated!

Thanks.


CALL THIS CALIBRATED AND DONE!!!..now put the probe away..and slow backway..You must resist..your done..work with me.. :p :D

CALL THIS CALIBRATED AND DONE!!!..now put the probe away..and slow backway..You must resist..your done..work with me.. :p :D

Sorry could help it and tweaked further, i must stop i know but the bug has bitten :D

Is there some site where one can post bugs and/or enhancement requests for future versions?

Sorry could help it and tweaked further, i must stop i know but the bug has bitten :D

It took over 20something times on the same projector until I realized..Hey the numbers are still the same..its refreshing not having to go through that again..UNTIL MY NEXT PROJECTOR!!no, Im good :D

Is there some site where one can post bugs and/or enhancement requests for future versions?

I send bugs/requests directly to laric.

- using an HTPC, I get 2.07, but using the Oppo with the HCFR or GetGray DVD and set at 2.5, I get about 2.23, and my PHD8UK's curve looks very similar to yours.

When using the Oppo, did you use the PAL version of GetGray or the NTSC version? I am asking because I use the HCFR dvd which comes only in PAL to calibrate my pj (it projects the patterns in PAL) for NTSC SD dvd sources and I wonder if the readings would be the same as using original NTSC patterns such as GetGray which I don't have.
Should I force the source/pj to convert the signal from the HCFR PAL dvd to NTSC instead?
Thanks,
Fermin

I would like to report that when adjusting the Y reading of the primary colours in the gamut (xyY), I was expecting HCFR to apply an equivalent change to the adjacent secondary colours Y readings but that did not happened. It is like the concept of the lightness of say yellow Y = Green Y+Red Y doesn't apply. In other words, if I increase the Y value of green (by increasing the Lightness Value in the SM) I expect the values of yellow Y and cyan Y to be affected in the same amount as green.
Am I wrong in the thinking or am I doing something wrong? Could it be that there is a bug on HCFR?
Comments/opinions, please.
Thanks,
Fermin

I would like to report that when adjusting the Y reading of the primary colours in the gamut (xyY), I was expecting HCFR to apply an equivalent change to the adjacent secondary colours Y readings but that did not happened. It is like the concept of the lightness of say yellow Y = Green Y+Red Y doesn't apply. In other words, if I increase the Y value of green (by increasing the Lightness Value in the SM) I expect the values of yellow Y and cyan Y to be affected in the same amount as green.
Am I wrong in the thinking or am I doing something wrong? Could it be that there is a bug on HCFR?
Comments/opinions, please.
Thanks,
Fermin

HCFR just reads what the probe tells it, if the secondaries do not show the same increase in Y that the primaries do then this is how your display's CMS works. Does the CMS allow you to separately increase CMY lightness?

HCFR just reads what the probe tells it, if the secondaries do not show the same increase in Y that the primaries do then this is how your display's CMS works. Does the CMS allow you to separately increase CMY lightness?

Hi, zoyd,
Yes, the pj's CMS does allow the separate RGBYCM lightness adjustment. I am puzzled at the observation that when changing the lightness of one of the primary colours, the Y value of that colour changes but the corresponding secondaries are not showing the same change as I would expect? Why?
I understand that HCFR just reads the probe, but from say xyz to xyY there are transformations that ought to be made. I have no clue as to how HCFR interprets and manipulates the probe's readings or in what units of measure. Is it possible that HCFR is not doing these transformations exactly as expected?
Patric, Georges, Kras or any body in the know, could you please clarify this issue to us?
Thanks a bunch.
Fermin

When using the Oppo, did you use the PAL version of GetGray or the NTSC version? I am asking because I use the HCFR dvd which comes only in PAL to calibrate my pj (it projects the patterns in PAL) for NTSC SD dvd sources and I wonder if the readings would be the same as using original NTSC patterns such as GetGray which I don't have.
Should I force the source/pj to convert the signal from the HCFR PAL dvd to NTSC instead?
Thanks,
Fermin For calibration, I use the NTSC version of GetGray with the Oppo upconverting to 720p and set for NTSC. When I have used the HCFR PAL DVD, the Oppo is set (converting) to 720p NTSC output - I've nevered measured with it set to PAL. I was going to compare GetGray/NTSC, HCFR/PAL-NTSC, HCFR/PAL-PAL, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I assume that GetGray/NTSC and HCFR/PAL-NTSC (converted in the Oppo) should be virtually identical.

Hi, zoyd,
Yes, the pj's CMS does allow the separate RGBYCM lightness adjustment. I am puzzled at the observation that when changing the lightness of one of the primary colours, the Y value of that colour changes but the corresponding secondaries are not showing the same change as I would expect? Why?
I understand that HCFR just reads the probe, but from say xyz to xyY there are transformations that ought to be made. I have no clue as to how HCFR interprets and manipulates the probe's readings or in what units of measure. Is it possible that HCFR is not doing these transformations exactly as expected?
Patric, Georges, Kras or any body in the know, could you please clarify this issue to us?
Thanks a bunch.
Fermin



Find a fullcolor gamut display pattern and see if PJ is changing color the way you would expect - if you redefine Red than all colors with any Red should change. That means everything except for pure Blues/Cyans/Greens.

If PJ only changes Reds not Oranges - then it is not redefining the primaries - you are just replacing colors on the test pattern.

Of course to read the changes into your sensor software you have to retake the RGBCMY readings after every adjustment. Software can't update Yellow data when you are reading a Red....

If PJ only changes Reds not Oranges - then it is not redefining the primaries - you are just replacing colors on the test pattern.


That was my thinking also, maybe the PJ's CMS is just doing color replacement. Which brings up the question: what is the benefit of a CMS that just does color replacement and doesn't modify the whole gamut? That seems senseless to me.

I swear I saw a magazine ad showing you could make a certain TV's green grass purple if you want. Features sell products - even if meaningless and never used. Even better if features are trademarked logos.

Hopefully we get more AVSers completely testing this stuff out to bypass the hype - not just xy gamut is needed - but xyY performance then after that it needs tested to see if it changed only the test pattern - or all video?

is this very complicated do i just need this software or i need more tools? i read the first post saying about the color metors but didnt read all 90 pages help me

is this very complicated do i just need this software or i need more tools? i read the first post saying about the color metors but didnt read all 90 pages help me

The first post describes everything you need, a colorimeter(several supported from inexpensive to very expensive), software (link in 1st post), and source patterns on dvd. It's not that complicated but does require a fair amount of time investment to learn proper calibration techniques.

Hey guys,

I'm sorry to do this, but I was following this stuff up until a couple months ago (around page 80, or so), but haven't checked in in a while.

Has there been any updates? I'm guessing no, since I checked the first page, and it still says v1.22 available for download. Is there an ETA on v2.0 yet, or is still "when it's done" (aka the Duke Nukem Forever ETA ;))?

Also, and I know this is a extremely long shot: Has there been any miraculous finds that somehow makes using a Spyder2Express any more useable (using a RPTV)? Or is this a hopeless lost cause, and will I have to shell out more $ and get a D2?

The Panny 900 is an example of colour management which does not change the primary position, only the colour being viewed.

Example, if the Green primary coord is on the position ax ay Y, and we adjust it too ref x ref y Y with the colour management. Any Green only light intensity will follow a line towards the original primary position, when the value reaches the one set in the management it pops to the set position. Mixes like yellow will be defined by the Primary not the colour management position.

It is only any good for stills, photos. In other words completely useless.

The Panny 900 is an example of colour management which does not change the primary position, only the colour being viewed.

Example, if the Green primary coord is on the position ax ay Y, and we adjust it too ref x ref y Y with the colour management. Any Green only light intensity will follow a line towards the original primary position, when the value reaches the one set in the management it pops to the set position. Mixes like yellow will be defined by the Primary not the colour management position.

It is only any good for stills, photos. In other words completely useless.
That's useless. Why in the world would someone implement a color management system like that? Have you confirmed that it works like that?

I've seen a few of these "color replacement" systems mentioned (see Tom Huffman's CMS thread). The CMS can change primary/secondary colors but not the whole gamut and I asked the same question, "what's the point?". No one seems to know.

I've seen a few of these "color replacement" systems mentioned (see Tom Huffman's CMS thread). The CMS can change primary/secondary colors but not the whole gamut and I asked the same question, "what's the point?". No one seems to know.

Except marketers that have caught on to reviewers using static colorbars to test their gamut. Get that picture right when you send the tweaked box to the reviewer - the reviewer will say the colors are great since they are clueless and have no true CMS reference video to compare too. Marketers collect their bonus for selling lots of PJ's - VP's get their bonus for keeping engineering costs down....

Except marketers that have caught on to reviewers using static colorbars to test their gamut. Get that picture right when you send the tweaked box to the reviewer - the reviewer will say the colors are great since they are clueless and have no true CMS reference video to compare too. Marketers collect their bonus for selling lots of PJ's - VP's get their bonus for keeping engineering costs down....


wow, and I thought I was cynical. ;) I can imagine the marketing aspect playing a role (it always does) but there are engineering costs involved with any CMS, even one that implements LUT's which it appears these may be doing. Spending that money just to fool reviewers seems a bit of a stretch. Isn't there any benefit in these controls, even if they aren't improving the whole gamut maybe they improve colors in the local vicinity of the replaced colors.

I honestly cannot think of any benefit for a system that fixes only a few colors at a specific intensity. At least other CRS change all the intensity levels - leaving only the tertiary hues that still need correcting. So either it is marketing intention - or it is an engineering foulup and it was supposed to at least what the other CRS do - but falls short for some bug..

But if it is a marketing trick intentionally - it worked - I just saw someone link to a review for it that proclaimed it had a color preset for perfect colors.

Hi
Has there been any updates? I'm guessing no, since I checked the first page, and it still says v1.22 available for download. Is there an ETA on v2.0 yet, or is still "when it's done" (aka the Duke Nukem Forever ETA ;))?

It's still planned on the "when it's done" date ;) Anyway, the beta version is well advanced. We are un final development phase, hard testing will start soon, and documentation writing will take time too... Do not hope anything before September, and it is a minimum ;)

Anyway, you can be sure the 2.0 version will come out. There is already so much new stuff inside that it would really be a pity to resign ;)

Regards
Georges

Do not hope anything before September, and it is a minimum ;)


Oh yeah, that's right, isn't July through August vacation time for you guys? :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, that's right, isn't July through August vacation time for you guys? :rolleyes:
Yes it is, but French being on vacation for all July and August is a myth ;)

--Patrice (off part of august)

Yes it is, but French being on vacation for all July and August is a myth ;)

--Patrice (off part of august)

Looks like Sarkozy is cracking the whip already. :p

I'm calibrating my plasma with HCFR, GetGray, and DTP94 sensor. I can get white balance to track 6500K+/-100 from 0 to 100; however, my gamma curve always slopes down instead of tracking along the desired average of 2.2. 30IRE reads around 2.2 but the measures go down from there until it hits 0 around 80IRE. I am doing all the work in my den with all the lights off. I have the sensor suction cupped to the screen and have calibrated absolute black by displaying a 0IRE screen when calibrating the sensor.

What am I missing?

Thanks
-Dave.

post your cal file in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=786966) thread so we can see the numbers. also, which plasma?

I'm calibrating my plasma with HCFR, GetGray, and DTP94 sensor. I can get white balance to track 6500K+/-100 from 0 to 100; however, my gamma curve always slopes down instead of tracking along the desired average of 2.2. 30IRE reads around 2.2 but the measures go down from there until it hits 0 around 80IRE. I am doing all the work in my den with all the lights off. I have the sensor suction cupped to the screen and have calibrated absolute black by displaying a 0IRE screen when calibrating the sensor.

What am I missing?

Thanks
-Dave.
Lowering the contrast/picture settting will usually help flatten out the curve at the top end.
Also:
- Don't calibrate the DTP94 on the screen, instead, place it on flat surface to block out any light.
- Make sure you use DTP94 CRT mode when measuring a plasma

I have the sensor suction cupped to the screen and have calibrated absolute black by displaying a 0IRE screen when calibrating the sensor.


oh yeah, this is a big no no. Always measure black by blocking the sensor completely.

I'm calibrating my plasma with HCFR, GetGray, and DTP94 sensor. I can get white balance to track 6500K+/-100 from 0 to 100; however, my gamma curve always slopes down instead of tracking along the desired average of 2.2. 30IRE reads around 2.2 but the measures go down from there until it hits 0 around 80IRE. I am doing all the work in my den with all the lights off. I have the sensor suction cupped to the screen and have calibrated absolute black by displaying a 0IRE screen when calibrating the sensor.

What am I missing?

Thanks
-Dave.
Make sure you use IRE window patterns, the smaller the better. If you use full fields the plasmas power limiter will kick in. If you are already using window patterns, it sounds like your contrast is set too high.

Thanks for the quick responses, everybody. I was incorrectly calibrating the sensor with a 0IRE window because I thought it needed to see what the blackest black the display could output. Contrast was adjusted so that WTW on GetGray pattern would disappear, but now I see that this pattern is used more to get an idea of what the maximum contrast can be vs. what it really should be. I merely forgot to set the sensor to CRT mode (D'OH!).

When adjusting greyscale should I be aiming for the same percentage of red, green and blue in my readings while hitting a color temp of 6500K?

I'll be posting my before and after files to the other thead as soon as I get a chance to calibrate again.

Thanks
-Dave

When adjusting greyscale should I be aiming for the same percentage of red, green and blue in my readings while hitting a color temp of 6500K?


Select D65 in the preferences(this is the default) and adjust so that R=G=B=100%

nice find, thanks for the info.

The first post describes everything you need, a colorimeter(several supported from inexpensive to very expensive), software (link in 1st post), and source patterns on dvd. It's not that complicated but does require a fair amount of time investment to learn proper calibration techniques.

costco has the spyder software would it be any good? also why cant i leave the tv in dynamic mode? it looks really good! (i saw it at best buy PDP-5080) pioneer 8th gen

costco has the spyder software would it be any good? also why cant i leave the tv in dynamic mode? it looks really good! (i saw it at best buy PDP-5080) pioneer 8th gen

You'll find that Dynamic mode doesn't look so good after you have taken the set home and it isn't around a bunch of other sets that are also in Dynamic mode.

I have read reports that the Spyder software doesn't work. However, the sensor can be used with HCFR.

-Dave.

also why cant i leave the tv in dynamic mode? it looks really good! (i saw it at best buy PDP-5080) pioneer 8th gen


You can leave it at that since it is your TV, but you risk burn-in on plasmas. If you want an accurate picture then Dynamic mode is on the wrong end of the spectrum.

Anything new going on with the HCFR team ?

Nothing realy, things are progressing on v2.0... Coding is completed, tidy up too... Now the interesting (!) part remains, documentation, reports... ;)

--Patrice

I'm in the process of reading this whole thread and am currently on page 42 but would like to know if I can use the getgray dvd to calibrate my Barco Graphics 801 crt front projector. The site seems to imply its for digital sets only. I have video essentials and avia for black and white level adjustments if required or should I just use the programs internal patterns for all adjustments. I'm driving the projector with a pc running xp pro sp2 and an nvidia GeForce 6200 card via rgb out. dvds are played via internal dvd rom. I'm running 1280 X 960 resolution. What preference settings should I use. I'll be using the spyderII. Thanks for any help you can give me.

Don

Getgray's alliance with digital displays is a matter of ommision, not appropriateness.... if you have patterns for convergence to add, you're good to go :)

:cool:

Jim

Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll give it a try. After further reading, I see that another thread has been started related more specifically to calibration and calibration questions re colorhcfr. Maybe I should post my questions there although I hate to cross post.

Don

Honestly, I only got through about 1/2 this thread and did a quick search, but did not figure this out:

How do you mount the probes for front projection systems (Sanyo PLV-Z4)? Some of the recommended probes that I'm looking at seem to be designed to dangle in front of a TV or monitor.

Is one particular probe better for FP than the others?

Thanks,
Anthony

Honestly, I only got through about 1/2 this thread and did a quick search, but did not figure this out:

How do you mount the probes for front projection systems (Sanyo PLV-Z4)? Some of the recommended probes that I'm looking at seem to be designed to dangle in front of a TV or monitor.

Is one particular probe better for FP than the others?

Thanks,
Anthony

well you rig it, by probably supergluing a hex nut on the back of the probe that will fit on a tripod mount..

On the other question - one of the better all around probes and hard to find is the DTP-94 or whats also known as Optix-xr package bundle probe

Guys, I guess I need your help.

I just bought an eye-one display LT probe - the brand new xrite- gretagmacbeth instead of the "older" pantone version.

Eye-One diagnostics shows:
Device type: Eye-One Display LT (Version 2) [ Ambient Light Emission ]

Problem is: HCFR (latest 1.22 build) doesn't recognize the probe. I select Eye-One Display (LCD) and I get the error message: "EyeOne.dll returned an error during initialization. Device not connected"

The probe does work in Match 3.61 though... :confused:

Does the "new LT revision" break compatibility with HCFR or is something else wrong?

Any help would be appreciated!!! Thank you in advance.

is the eyeone.dll in the hcfr directory?

Yes, just copy the eyeone.dll into the HCFR folder and you should be fine. This should be better documented.

well you rig it, by probably supergluing a hex nut on the back of the probe that will fit on a tripod mount..Okay -- but then do you point the sensor at the screen or into the projector and how far away should you be?

Gerry

P.S. I have the DTP-94, if that matters as to what it's pointed at

Okay -- but then do you point the sensor at the screen or into the projector and how far away should you be?

Gerry

P.S. I have the DTP-94, if that matters as to what it's pointed at

You must point the DTP-94 at the screen unless you add a diffuser to your set-up. It's always preferable to measure off the screen if you can get a decent signal. You shouldn't have any problems doing that with the DTP-94. Mount the probe such that it does not view it's own shadow.

You must point the DTP-94 at the screen unless you add a diffuser to your set-up. It's always preferable to measure off the screen if you can get a decent signal. You shouldn't have any problems doing that with the DTP-94. Mount the probe such that it does not view it's own shadow.

I prefer to do the screen offset then turn the probe and point it back to the projector and get quicker readings..but both work...

Okay -- but then do you point the sensor at the screen or into the projector and how far away should you be?

Gerry

P.S. I have the DTP-94, if that matters as to what it's pointed at

with the DTP-94 which I own (and the HCFR probe), what I did is get a suction cup and the cut the back part of it and then superglue the hexnut on the suction cup. Then you can superglue (if you want) or use a gluegun to glue the suction cup to the back of the DTP-94, due to its curving of the back of the DTP-94 - you will be unable to just glue the hexnut to the DTP-94..Try the link below, you may have to do the free registration but it will give you an idea of what to do..like I said I cut the back part of the suction cup and then I superglue it to that flat surface..hope this helps..

http://www.datapopuli.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=342

is the eyeone.dll in the hcfr directory?


Uppsss. Thank you very much Vega and Tom. And sorry for the newbie question - it was the missing eyeone.dll indeed. It works like a charm now.


Tom,

I'm determined to get the most out of my Sharp Z20000 now that I have a new calibration setup. I sincerely hope you don't mind me asking some questions about your calibration experiences - I promise to try real hard to get as much information as possible by just looking through your post history instead of bothering you here.

Two quick ones though:

- Did you calibrate your 20k with the menu controls, the setup menu (much better option IMHO) or the god-send Sharp Gamma Manager application (by far the best alternative in my experience)?

- If I want to calibrate my 20k with a "Sony CRT studio monitor" target gamma of 2.38 in mind is it a good start to select "Optimized (Regression)" for gamma calculation and just enter 2.38 as Reference Gamma in HCFR?

Thank you very much!

Has anyone posted a solid walk thru to calibrating your system with HCFR? If so I would greatly appreciate a link. I've played around with it some, and in general I understand what's going on, but I'm not sure in what order to adjust what... what level should luminance read on the info display at 50 IRE... should I adjust the gamma or backlighting options on my set, or just do things via brightness and contrast...questions of this nature. The HCFR documentation doesn't appear to contain any generic walk thru.

I'm using a spyder2 to do my calibration on my new Samsung LCD.

Thanks for any pointers!

Robert

Is there any way to just measure a single, specific IRE step in HCFR (eg. 25%, 75%)?

Use the continuous measure function. It's to the right of the secondaries and labeled simply "Measures". Put up whatever you want to measure, click the green arrow, and it takes one reading after another, so you can see the results of your adjustments in real time. The combined histogram will pop up when you start measuring, but you can also bring up the others like the RGB histogram and CIE chart.

Rob

Has anyone posted a solid walk thru to calibrating your system with HCFR? If so I would greatly appreciate a link. I've played around with it some, and in general I understand what's going on, but I'm not sure in what order to adjust what... what level should luminance read on the info display at 50 IRE... should I adjust the gamma or backlighting options on my set, or just do things via brightness and contrast...questions of this nature. The HCFR documentation doesn't appear to contain any generic walk thru.

I'm using a spyder2 to do my calibration on my new Samsung LCD.

Thanks for any pointers!

Robert

Sprynmr:

I think what you are looking for is sort of a HCFR for dummies. I am pretty sure that the next version will have something like that but for now here a couple of resources:
This website is pretty good: http://geekwithfamily.com/2006/12/16/home-theater/howto-hcfr-free-video-projector-calibration-software/

and this post (#708, which is in this thread) is pretty good too: Post #708 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9165873&&#post9165873)

Try to read as much as you can and be warned it takes patience but for me at least it was well worth it. What disc do you have to work with? If you are at all knowledgeable about calibration I would suggest the Getgray disc. It's simple straight forward and accurate.

Good luck!

Thanks for the resources.

Yea I already grabbed the getgray dvd.

I'm looking for something not QUITE for dummies... but for a technical person who maybe doesn't quite know the in's and outs of calibration yet. Hopefully those resources get me started.

I already spent a couple hours with the software and did what appears to me to be a pretty solid calibration... but then I was reading something about using the gamma instead of brightness contrast to adjust your luminance... etc. So I wasn't sure if I was tweaking the right controls.

I'll give your links a good look.

Best,
Robert

I was wondering if anybody could enlighten me by guiding me to resources for adjusting mechanical/optical focus of a RPTV (lcos, not CRT)?

What I really need to know is if the focus should be altered to obtain the most defined pixels or if there are criteria for focusing the "big" picture.

Oh, BTW, the French team at HCFR really kicks ass!

Thanks.

T

I'll give your links a good look.

Best,
Robert

Also, post your results to the other HCFR thread for feedback on specific issues.

Oh wonderful friends over in France....when is a OS X version comin? :)

sorry....had to put that in.

Hi! Is it possible to use a standalone colorimeter with HCFR?
I have a Minolta CL-100 that I have used for a while, but so far only to set greyscale. I notice that I can edit the fields and put in my values, but not for the primary colors?

Lately I have used some of the testpatterns from W6RZ when setting up the greyscale on my BG1209S. Yesterday I got a JVC RS1, and the first thing I want to have a look at is the primary colors plotted on the CIE chart.

Gunnar

I prefer to do the screen offset then turn the probe and point it back to the projector and get quicker readings..but both work...

Rich, how do you do the screen offset? Can you explain this I have never tried it. Is it more accurate down low? Please explain.

Hi! Is it possible to use a standalone colorimeter with HCFR?
I have a Minolta CL-100 that I have used for a while, but so far only to set greyscale. I notice that I can edit the fields and put in my values, but not for the primary colors?
Gunnar

You can input values for the primaries/secondaries in the upcoming version. :)

Rich, how do you do the screen offset? Can you explain this I have never tried it. Is it more accurate down low? Please explain.


I haven't tried this myself but one way to do this is to measure 75% primary and secondary patterns off the screen and then set that file as reference. Then turn the probe around and measure the same patterns in a new file. Once you have both files you can use the calibrate XYZ function to "train" the direct measurement to the screen measurement. This will correct for any color and luminance shift between the direct and reflected measurement and since the direct measurement provides more signal should get you down to lower stimulus values.

I haven't tried this myself but one way to do this is to measure 75% primary and secondary patterns off the screen and then set that file as reference. Then turn the probe around and measure the same patterns in a new file. Once you have both files you can use the calibrate XYZ function to "train" the direct measurement to the screen measurement. This will correct for any color and luminance shift between the direct and reflected measurement and since the direct measurement provides more signal should get you down to lower stimulus values.

Thanks, also I never asked this but should I be using 75% Gray, primary and secondary windows no matter how I do it?

Thanks, also I never asked this but should I be using 75% windows no matter how I do it?

Doesn't matter which you use, just so they are the same in both files and give a decent signal off the screen. Avoid 100% if your colors don't track well at that point.

Doesn't matter which you use, just so they are the same in both files and give a decent signal off the screen. Avoid 100% if your colors don't track well at that point.

How about for Grayscale, same thing?

I don't think the white point is used to calculate the offset but try it out.

I don't think the white point is used to calculate the offset but try it out.

No I meant when measuring gray scale, should I be using 75% or 100% windows?

No I meant when measuring gray scale, should I be using 75% or 100% windows?

oh, you mean the size of the windows? Always use windowed patterns and not full screen.

I would like to get started using HCFR with a Spyder probe, but I can't find specific instructions on how EXACTLY to copy the cvspyder.dll to HCFR. There are several references to this in these posts, but I need step by step instructions for a Dell laptop.

A big thank you to whomever has the patience to respond.

Well, I finally figured it out for myself. For those of you who may not know the procedure, here is what I did...

I used the file search function and typed in "cvspyder.dll."

When this was found, I clicked EDIT and selected "Copy to folder," as merely typing "Copy" didn't seem to work for me.

I used file search again, typing in "HCFR.exe." More than one item popped up but I went back to EDIT and selected "Paste" and that did the trick.

Now HCFR recognizes the Spyder sensor on my computer.

I am getting ready to calibrate a Sharp 12K, with a XA2 Toshiba HDDVD player going hdmi to dvi, and a Sony 300 Blu-Ray player hooked up with component cables. I have GetGray. Would it be useful to get the new DVE HD DVD calibration disk?

I am getting ready to calibrate a Sharp 12K, with a XA2 Toshiba HDDVD player going hdmi to dvi, and a Sony 300 Blu-Ray player hooked up with component cables. I have GetGray. Would it be useful to get the new DVE HD DVD calibration disk?
There are excellent free HD Patterns(everything you need for calibration) HERE (http://www.w6rz.net/) thanks to dr1394. You can check his thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=570937) for more information.

There are excellent free HD Patterns(everything you need for calibration) HERE (http://www.w6rz.net/) thanks to dr1394. You can check his thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=570937) for more information.

Thanks!

Is this a sensor that works with HCFR? Eye-One Display LT, model MEU102? Is this about the same performance as the Optix DTP-94? (just missed one at eBay..)

Gunnar

Is this a sensor that works with HCFR? Eye-One Display LT, model MEU102? Is this about the same performance as the Optix DTP-94? (just missed one at eBay..)

Gunnar

yes, the display LT is the same sensor used in the display 2 package (different software levels) and works with HCFR. The performance is similar to the DTP-94 however the 94 performs slightly better on plasmas.

Thanks!

Display LT it is then.

Gunnar

Hey guys,

Looking for a quick calibration lesson. Here are my screenshots (http://sprynthesis.com/avsquestion.pdf) for reference (PDF file.)

I'm working on a new Samsung LCD HDTV here, and I'm getting close.

I've got close to ideal brightness/contrast going on... a good color temperature all the way through... a pretty good luminance level... and pretty tight RGB levels.

All is good right? Except my color space in the CIE diagram appears to be pretty far off.

Now I'm not sure what to adjust to get the green and red scooting over towards their ideal points.

I don't seem to have the basic color balance controls that I expected to see for preliminary adjustments.... just rgb gain and offset under the white balance area.... which I used to get the rgb readings in check across the board.

So you see my readings... what is your advice?

Greatly appreciate any help!

Thanks,
Robert

Forgive me if this has been covered before, but I didn't come up with anything definative with a search. I just got a Spyder2, GetGray DVD, and HCFR. I was able to get pretty good results after a first round of adjustments, but I have a few questions:

What gamma number should I be shooting for? The default ref gamma is 2.22 (and I've always heard that 2.2 is the goal). However, I read this in a blog:

HCFR reads gamma differently than we’re used to: its 2.2 is really 2.5–6 (too dark); when you select “from standard” just match the curve in the gamma chart, the number you’re shooting for (to achieve the 2.2 HDTV gamma target) is around 1.9.
The gamma control on my Samsung LN-T4665F LCD allows +/- 3. At -1, I get 2.0, and at -3, I get 2.14. Should I be shooting for 1.9 or 2.2?

The blog also says

For my projector I set the Standard to “HDTV (REC 709)” and Gamma Reference to “from standard” (I guess “from standard” picks up the gamma curve from whatever Standard you have chosen (NTSC, HDTV, PAL or sRGB)).
I don't see a "from standard" setting. Just Reference Gamma with a text box set to 2.22 by default. Also, there is a "Gamma Calculation Setting", which I currently have set to the default of "Display Gamma with Black Compensation". Is this correct?

Finally, I think I read somehwere to use 16-235 RGB for gray scale and 0-255 for colors. Again: is this accurate?

Thanks in advance...

Forgive me if this has been covered before, but I didn't come up with anything definative with a search. I just got a Spyder2, GetGray DVD, and HCFR. I was able to get pretty good results after a first round of adjustments, but I have a few questions:

What gamma number should I be shooting for? The default ref gamma is 2.22 (and I've always heard that 2.2 is the goal). However, I read this in a blog:


The gamma control on my Samsung LN-T4665F LCD allows +/- 3. At -1, I get 2.0, and at -3, I get 2.14. Should I be shooting for 1.9 or 2.2?

The blog also says


I don't see a "from standard" setting. Just Reference Gamma with a text box set to 2.22 by default. Also, there is a "Gamma Calculation Setting", which I currently have set to the default of "Display Gamma with Black Compensation". Is this correct?

Finally, I think I read somehwere to use 16-235 RGB for gray scale and 0-255 for colors. Again: is this accurate?

Thanks in advance...

That blog statement regarding HCFR gamma is incorrect. I've posted on this before but HCFR has several gamma fitting functions and you should choose the one that gives the best fit to your data. Best fit in general means the flatest curve when viewed on the log graph. For some displays you just can't get a good fit so there isn't a single gamma # to shoot for. In general you should aim for between 2.2 and 2.5 depending on room lightling conditions (2.5 is typical in very dark HT set-ups). Also pay attention to the curve in the near-black to mid-tone range, you don't want it to turn up sharply at the low end as this is an indication of black crush.

The setting for video levels (16-235 vs 0-255) has no effect when using external patterns (getgray).

However, I read this in a blog:


HCFR reads gamma differently than we’re used to: its 2.2 is really 2.5–6 (too dark); when you select “from standard” just match the curve in the gamma chart, the number you’re shooting for (to achieve the 2.2 HDTV gamma target) is around 1.9.
A bit of history:

That was w. the very 1st release of ColorHCFR. It used to have 2 gamma options "Gamma w. Black compensation"(non-editable) and "Standard" (editable). That statement was made when comparing data between ColorHCFR and another popular calibration software (myself being one) as well as observations from users. When calibrating (back then), with a 2.2 reference curve (either option), it resulted in a highish 2.6-7 result on the "other software" with same data copied over, which alot of us agreed with (all black details lost, dark image). "Standard" option w. 1.9 plotted reference curve resulted in a 2.2 curve on "other" when comparing and alot better visually, hence why "select Standard, target 1.9".

All is well nowdays, that no longer applies :) .

ahhh crap. I spent hours getting this calibrated to a 1.9 gamma! This doesn't even apply to HDTV or anything? I need to recalibrate to 2.2 huh?

doh!

Anyone care to help me with my CEI problem from a few posts up? I'm dying to learn!

Thanks,
Robert

Robert,

I believe, that unless you have individual color controls for hue and saturation, your colors are what they are. You may be able to reduce overall color lightness by lowering the color control, but that's probably about all.

Rob

ahhh crap. I spent hours getting this calibrated to a 1.9 gamma! This doesn't even apply to HDTV or anything? I need to recalibrate to 2.2 huh?

doh!

Anyone care to help me with my CEI problem from a few posts up? I'm dying to learn!

Thanks,
Robert

Video is encoded with a gamma correction of 2.2 with the expectation that it will be displayed in a dimly lit environment on a display which has a gamma function equal to ~2.5. So 2.5 is the number to shoot for under dim viewing conditions. The brighter your environment the more you'll probably want to lower the overall gamma to maintain dark detail.

As far as your CIE points go you can probably get magenta to line up better using your tint control but unless you have individual lightness and hue controls for the primaries you're stuck with those.

ahhh crap. I spent hours getting this calibrated to a 1.9 gamma! This doesn't even apply to HDTV or anything?
Correct, that was just a "cheat" way to get results mimicking 2.2. Like Zoyd mentioned, only in bright environment you may tweak a bit lower if needed. Other than that forget 1.9. Recent software is fine as I mentioned. Have fun :) !

Just checking in again, has any announcement been made yet as to when the next version will be available?

Hi Gino

Still no announcement. There will be nothing before September, maybe October, depending on developer/testers availability. Actually it's in beta evaluation, and still needs documentation, new DVD, and so on...

Regards
Georges

Thanks Georges, I shall check back again in 2 months

Hi all,

I have the i1 LT meter (and a spyder2 for that matter) and it comes with a diffuser. as far as I understand it, the use of the diffuser is for when taking measurements on FPJs. I have a FPJ and TV both LCD.

For my LCD tv I can just use the meter without the diffuser on. (is this right?) But if I was to measure the PJ I undestand I need to have it on. However, Can someone confirm this?

also does HFCR support ambient mode (for use with the diffuser) in latest 1.22v?

Many thanks,

Kopa13

But if I was to measure the PJ I undestand I need to have it on. However, Can someone confirm this?No, you need the diffuser only if you want to point the meter at the lens. You take readings off the screen without a diffuser.

No, you need the diffuser only if you want to point the meter at the lens. You take readings off the screen without a diffuser.

Thanks Tom. But does the HCFR (lastest v 1.22) support measurements with the diffuser for the i1 LT?

Thanks,

kopa13

It specifically recommends using a diffuser for contrast measurements, but other than that it is vague on the subject. BTW, the diffuser that ships with the i1 is not color neutral. I wouldn't use it fore gray scale or chromaticity readings.

It specifically recommends using a diffuser for contrast measurements, but other than that it is vague on the subject. BTW, the diffuser that ships with the i1 is not color neutral. I wouldn't use it fore gray scale or chromaticity readings.
While you're on the subject, what's the need for the diffuser when pointing meter at lens? If it's necessary, then how would someone calibrate if pointing at lens and using screen offset, being that the diffuser is not neutral? What do you recommend?

While you're on the subject, what's the need for the diffuser when pointing meter at lens? If it's necessary, then how would someone calibrate if pointing at lens and using screen offset, being that the diffuser is not neutral? What do you recommend?

A diffuser is used to measure incident light (illuminance mode) from the PJ. It reduces sensitivity to pointing and alignment. To correct for screen offset and any color shift induced by the diffuser you first measure in luminance mode, without diffuser, off the screen and set that measurement as reference. Then measure with a diffuser pointed at the PJ and use the XYZ correction function to recalibrate the probe.

That clears things up. Thanks

What is the best colorimeter at the moment to use for a plasma tv in combination white color HCFR.

Most to less accurate
i1 Pro > DTP-94 > Spyder2 > i1 Display