Hi jdb,

Okay so I need to do the greyscale measurement which requires snap shots of the ire from 0 to 100 then, that's what I was kinda thinking. The problem is I'll have to wait now until I set it up again to try that. Another question, what are the factors which make the gamma deviate from the 2.2 ideal setting?

Thanks again.

Hi jdb,
Another question, what are the factors which make the gamma deviate from the 2.2 ideal setting?

Thanks again.
I am not an expert on gamma calculations, and it is a hotly debatable topic, but black-level (brightness), contrast, and any gamma controls on the display will affect gamma and, if set incorrectly, cause it to deviate from the ideal.

Take a look at the "Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS" sticky in this forum. The first post has some tips on setting black-level with a gamma target in mind.

Hi Rich
Yes..but if you have a Plasma (on somecases)- right now ColorHCFR has had some issue with overstating RED..V2 ColorHCFR, I assume will correct this..CalmanV3 has corrected the issue with d2 and plasmas..
That's right, ColorHCFR have an issue with D2 used on Plasma, which Calman don't have. With information I have, I think I could correct it, but I don't own D2 by myself, and SDK documentation is not clear enough to indicate how to fix it.
One day or another, I will borrow a D2 to somebody and play with it, and I'm confident I will fix this issue. But it will probably not be ready in V2.0, because we don't want to make you wait so much. But it will be for sure included in a V2.1 ;)

Regards
Georges

H! Anybody know how to get the source code of ColorHCFR?

One day or another, I will borrow a D2 to somebody and play with it, and I'm confident I will fix this issue. But it will probably not be ready in V2.0, because we don't want to make you wait so much. But it will be for sure included in a V2.1 ;)

Regards
Georges

Is version 2.0 coming out this month?

Hello Jacky
H! Anybody know how to get the source code of ColorHCFR?
Source code is available to anybody, on demand. Just send me your e-mail, and I will send you the zip file containing all sources.

Regards
Georges

Hello
Is version 2.0 coming out this month?
We never engage ourselves on a delivery date, because it's useless stress for all team members ;)

But we are near the end, so it may be available during December. But it is NOT a commitment ;)

Regards
Georges

Hello Jacky

Source code is available to anybody, on demand. Just send me your e-mail, and I will send you the zip file containing all sources.

Regards
Georges

That's cool. What's the compilation environment?

on the 16-235 / 0-255, doesnt matter unless your using the HCFR pattern generator...but sake of argument, just choose 16-235 for your case..

Run a greyscale and see which GAMMA best represents your display (first do contrast, brightness, then set your greyscale, then RUN it)..Once again, you can toggle, between both Black comp and Camera Gamma to see which one is represented better..- of my understanding ;)

Thank you richlo, U are a little pearl man! I'd totally forgot my question and did a little research my self. I'll think my conclusion well fit within your answer. Blackcompensation is a good thing. I did also go for the "photo gamma" in my benQ 8720. I did meassure with a NTSC disc, but calibrated to PAL gamut. Not soo good, hrhr. I just have to recalibrate the gamut. Unfortunally the secondarys and grayscale interact very much, so there is some job to be done. But hey, it's fun.

Just a little question. Is there a good way to determine if the DVD player sends in HDTV colorspace or in NTSC/PAL colorspace when upscaling is enabled? Maby not a question for this thread thou.

Hello

We never engage ourselves on a delivery date, because it's useless stress for all team members ;)

But we are near the end, so it may be available during December. But it is NOT a commitment ;)

Regards
Georges

This is a very good news to me, really like your program and the thought that it's free of charge. Is there a way to show our gratitude by donate to your group?

Regards.

Hello
That's cool. What's the compilation environment?
It is a Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0 project.

Regards
Georges

This is a very good news to me, really like your program and the thought that it's free of charge. Is there a way to show our gratitude by donate to your group?

Regards.

I agree to that. You should put a button for donators. You put your hard work and some of us might want to show you their gratitude.

sorry if i missed this, but is v2 this year or 2008?

also, is there anyway to get on the beta testing for v2?

Hi folks,

I am about halfway through this thread and have run into a problem. I have been calibrating my RS1/Radiance on my Vista laptop. When I trasnfered the HCFR file to my Desktop XP, I noticed that the dE measurements on the CIE graph are significantly different. Both versions are 1.22f. Any ideas?

Mike

Double check that it hasn't switched the reference from Rec 601 to Rec709 (or vice-versa).

sorry if i missed this, but is v2 this year or 2008?
also, is there anyway to get on the beta testing for v2?The HCFR guys said way back in August that they were virtually finished with v. 2 and have said subsequently said that it would be released before the first of the year. That is looking increasingly doubtful.

There was also a post from Georges recently that said they were close but didn't want to commit to a specific date because they have real world lives/jobs that need looking after too.

Yes, and I can add we have virtually done nothing from July up until late October... (being busy on alternate probe and our real world lives/jobs)

May not be before this year end (althought I'm still hoping), but should not be long after...

--Patrice

any idea what's the cheapest workable probe? does anybody doing it for sale?

Patrice, please tell us more about this alternate probe you mentioned.

Hi folks,

I am about halfway through this thread and have run into a problem. I have been calibrating my RS1/Radiance on my Vista laptop. When I trasnfered the HCFR file to my Desktop XP, I noticed that the dE measurements on the CIE graph are significantly different. Both versions are 1.22f. Any ideas?

Mike

I believe its because they dont account for Y of the x,y,Y..

Patrice, please tell us more about this alternate probe you mentioned.
I cannot so far, but don't expect too much in this area, that was early work and it's not yet complete (but that won't impact v2.0)

--Patrice

Hi Patrice,

Is this a new HCFR probe or a commercial probe?

any idea what's the cheapest workable probe? does anybody doing it for sale?
I have several of the TAOS based two-sensor HCFR style probes available. You can see the page under my user profile for details.

Dave

I bought a HCFR probe from Dave and it works like a charm for my CRT FRT PJ and he sent it asap too.

Double check that it hasn't switched the reference from Rec 601 to Rec709 (or vice-versa).

That was it...thanks much!

I wanted to change the subject for a few minutes, I could.


Now that a lot of us have used this wonderful piece of software to calibrate our systems, does anyone have any real world observations to share?

Id like to give a few.

After nailing my greyscale and gamma with the tool and my lumagen scaler(an awesome combo to have, btw).

I used Camera Gamma on hcfr to get my best results. The other gammas resulted in an overall too dark scenario for me. I have a Panny AE900 and satisfactory black levels are its achilles heel, in my opinion.

Movies are stunning and my shadow detail has never been better.

Flesh tones are excellent and the picture no longer has that "suddenly white" look to it, like the contrast in the upper IREs are too high. Much more detail in the highlights.

The other interesting thing I have noticed now is that crappy video sources look that much more crappy.

Last night I watched the How the Grinch stole Christmas with Jim Carrey on ABC over DirectTV HD. I wasnt able to compare it to the over the air HD from the local broadcast. I've seen the movie on SD DVD and thought it was much better on DVD.

The movie looked like it had a fog filter on it all the time. The blacks were not black and the artifacting was pretty bad. Funny thing, HD commercials, and the annoying banner that the local channel was running for church closings(having a winter storm here in Kansas City) were crisp, full range and colorful.

Then we watched Star Wars II, the clone wars on SD DVD. I have never enjoyed watching the movie so much. The colors were much more accurate and the movie was much smoother, again with the correct gamma. The scenes at Camino that were always nearly clinical black and white have much more detail and subtle coloring now. The very dark stormy battles between Obi Wan and Jango Fett were much brighter, and smooth, revealing lots more detail.



Just wondering if anyone else is getting these kinds of results.

Hats off to the HCFR staff. What an awesome product.

Dennis

Oppo DV-981
Lumagen HDQ
Panny AE900U
Panamorph vertical squeeze lens for viewing scope movies
SMX screen 40x100

Last night I watched the How the Grinch stole Christmas with Jim Carrey on ABC over DirectTV HD. ...

The movie looked like it had a fog filter on it all the time. The blacks were not black ...

Yeah I watched a couple of minutes and saw the same ... It's as if somebody pushed the "setup" button. (black level pushed up.) The most recent episodes of "Enterprise" on HDNet have suffered from the same issue.

Does anyone have an opinion as to whether the Spyder2Pro is an accurate probe for calibrating a LCD Projector? Is this particular model currently supported?

Or am I better off with a Xrite or HCFR DYI unit?

Does anyone have an opinion as to whether the Spyder2Pro is an accurate probe for calibrating a LCD Projector? Is this particular model currently supported?

Or am I better off with a Xrite or HCFR DYI unit?

I have the Eye-One Display2 and recommend it highly. As of now, I think that it is the best value. The LT version is the same probe with different software for PC/Mac calibration at an even lower price.

Hey guys I am sure this has been asked before but will the program run on Vista?

Yes, both 32 and 64bits ;)

This is true for both 1.22 and future 2.0... (although it requires a specific driver for 64b, ask it if you need)

--Patrice

Yes, both 32 and 64bits ;)

This is true for both 1.22 and future 2.0... (although it requires a specific driver for 64b, ask it if you need)

--Patrice

Thanks, now I can update my macbook with Vista. Your program is the only thing I use windows for. :D

Not sure I should say it now, (Team don't hurt me ;)) but I can tell you a Mac version will come... At least it is on the work... :D

--Patrice

Woo Hooo:):):):) Sweet!!!

I don't know, it is still working here. Anyway, download both .txt > rename to .rar > unrar.

I have downloaded both files and renamed them .rar . Which one should I extract with Zip 7 to replace the .exe ? TKs

Not sure I should say it now, (Team don't hurt me ;)) but I can tell you a Mac version will come... At least it is on the work... :D

--Patrice

I please, please!!! Then I won't have to borrow my fiancee's Windoze machine to run this.

What would be the chances of ColorHCFR ever being able to access the (hidden) gamma controls on the latest Pioneer plasma tvs?

I understand Colorfacts provides (via its RS232 interface) gamma control from 10-90IRE (each point providing separate control over red, green and blue). I have the new Pioneer LX608D and while the Movie mode gamma is "okay" the User mode gamma is awful. Only User mode is configurable for each input. So it's live with one setup for all inputs or hunt around for someone with Colorfacts or pay for a calibration.

Is this sort of thing within "the realm of the possible"?

Regards

Steve

i've read most of this thread and am very intrigued...

i've always wanted to be able to calibrate my tv's to enjoy a better viewing experience and have even shelled out the big bucks for an isf cal a few years ago.

a big thanks to all those engineers & developers who put together this program!! i've not purchased a compatible probe yet, but hopefully will get one soon that will work with the program.

i do have a barco le probe that is used to calibrate lcd monitors. it won't work with the hcfr colorimeter program, but i can read x and y values and luminance.

i am on directv (hr20-700 hd-dvr)and have the 10 minute grayscale/color patterns recorded from the hd-net channel. using these patterns, i was able to display an 11 step graduated gray scale on the screen and measure each of the unique ire gray scale boxes with the barco probe connected to my laptop.

i was able to crudely adjust the rgb gains & biases to get each of the 11 measurements to x=.31 and y=.33 (my display only reads out to 2 values, so i couldn't achieve x=.313 and y=.329).

can you guys lend your technical expertise and entertain my question?? am i off base using this crude adjustment or do you think i've gotten closer to a calibrated grayscale adjustment?

i have no way to measure gamma (although i did have to choose "low" gamma to achieve my adjustments)or other values mentioned in this thread, but thought i read there was only one way to achieve D65 with values x=.313, y=.329.

thanks for any feedback!!

What would be the chances of ColorHCFR ever being able to access the (hidden) gamma controls on the latest Pioneer plasma tvs?

I understand Colorfacts provides (via its RS232 interface) gamma control from 10-90IRE (each point providing separate control over red, green and blue). I have the new Pioneer LX608D and while the Movie mode gamma is "okay" the User mode gamma is awful. Only User mode is configurable for each input. So it's live with one setup for all inputs or hunt around for someone with Colorfacts or pay for a calibration.

Is this sort of thing within "the realm of the possible"?

Regards

Steve

YES! please HCFR team ... Now this would be fantastic. Please let us know if this is possible at all.

I could easily program an interface to define gamma if I knew the protocol... but I don't know it. If somebody have information about this protocol, I could take a look at it ;)

Georges

I could easily program an interface to define gamma if I knew the protocol... but I don't know it. If somebody have information about this protocol, I could take a look at it ;)

Georges

Maybe someone with Colorfacts could loan out a copy to retrieve asaid protocol.

This would be an excellent addition if it happened:):)

I decided to recalibrate my DLP projection with Eye one Display LT 9 months after the previous calibration.

I remotely remember that I should use the LCD mode. Am I right or wrong?

Thanks,

JM

Hi Joseph

You are right. Eye One Display LCD mode is suitable for DLP.

Regards
Georges

I could easily program an interface to define gamma if I knew the protocol... but I don't know it. If somebody have information about this protocol, I could take a look at it ;)

Georges

This is the ISFccc (also known as 3C) protocol that some displays and video processors support. It allows eeprom programming of stuff like 11 point gamma and day/night modes. I don't know how to obtain it, but it probably requires a license agreement with ISF.

Thank you for this information, zoyd. Maybe I could do something with that... but it will not be included in version 2.0, it's too late for new features ;)

Regards
Georges

This is the ISFccc (also known as 3C) protocol that some displays and video processors support. It allows eeprom programming of stuff like 11 point gamma and day/night modes. I don't know how to obtain it, but it probably requires a license agreement with ISF.

I was wondering about this. Surely gamma controls aren't necessarily proprietary to the 3C interface. (Was gamma control available in earlier models via the service menu?) If they're not proprietary then all Colorfacts is doing is accessing otherwise available controls via an effective, user-friendly GUI. I agree that the notion of day/night modes is "very 3C".

I have the Pioneer LX608D (UK model). The gamma when AV Selection "Movie" is used is quite good. But for some reason Pioneer has not chosen to use such a good base for User mode. In fact it's simply terrible. Only User mode can be configured for each input and so this issue has really stopped my calibration efforts in their tracks. It wouldn't be so bad if all my movie collection were, say, HD. But of course I've got a real mix of SD-DVD, HD-DVD and a growing collection of BD.

Given the new Kuro range is hugely popular I was wondering if the good souls at ColorHCFR could find a way through this. If a license is required then I wonder how much? I'd certainly pitch in. It's certainly worth some thought. I'm the first to admit that I have no idea what investigating this would entail but this issue is currently the only thing that I "need" that ColorHCFR doesn't provide.

Regards

Steve

I also thought that ISF certification was something that, in my case, Pioneer meets by providing control over a number of factors (2 presets for each input providing gamma control etc). They pay a small license fee for being able to say that their hardware meets the certification criteria of the Imaging Science Foundation. One presumably would go to Pioneer for the protocols to access this functionality via a RS232 interface (rather than approaching ISF). Whether they would charge for that I don't know but presumably they have a vested interest in broadening the range of software available that can access these in-built features.

EDIT: although this press release suggests that Pioneer have actually licensed a "configuration" from ISF

http://www.imagingscience.com/ccc/pdf/ISFpioneer.pdf

In any case, contacting ISF would surely yield some quick insights.

"Thank you for this information, zoyd. Maybe I could do something with that... but it will not be included in version 2.0, it's too late for new features ..Georges G."

................................................

Is Georges hinting Santa Claus may be coming with Ver 2.0 HCFR and it will be under our Christmas trees ??:)

At least 2.0 is now in Release Candidate state...

I doubt we will be able to complete the setup for christmas, but wait won't be too long now...

--Patrice

You guys are fantastic. I hope it has a way for people to make donations...

Thanks George!

JM

someone else has already posted this question.


will v2.0 support spyder3?

thank you for you work, very appreciated.

Hi Joseph

You are right. Eye One Display LCD mode is suitable for DLP.

Regards
Georges


If I was to get the same unit (Eye One Display LT) for use on a plasma would I use CRT mode? Also is this the best choice in this price range for use with this program? Thanks.

If I was to get the same unit (Eye One Display LT) for use on a plasma would I use CRT mode? Also is this the best choice in this price range for use with this program? Thanks.


There has been some issue with the Plasma and the DisplayLT with the current version of ColorHCFR (not sure if its all plasma's honestly)...So if you have a Plasma you might want to find the Optix-xr (aka - DTP94) probe which is a better probe for Plasmas..

I am sure that it would be in CRT mode...

That's right, just a word to add that this Plasma problem is now sorted in v2.0 (I know it's not yet there) and we have put a specific "Plasma" choice to make t ings clear for Eye One probes.

--Patrice

I am totally new to calibration. I am just beginning to explore the HCFR s/w. So please bear with me for some of the questions here are quite basic. Since the tutorial in the HCFR is still under construction , I am using this link as a starting guide:

http://geekwithfamily.com/2006/12/16...tion-software/

I have some questions:

a) What selection of displays to use for Plasmas? ...CRT ?

b) The horiz axis is IRE but the grey windows on the Getgray disk is not in IRE but % amplitude . How to cater for this?

c) Can I use the colorimeter from SpyderExpress ? Is this the same Is there a particular Revision date or # for the as the Spyder 2 in the HCFR s/w. Is there a way to tell whether it's the latest unit? I ask because Costco has the Spyder Express for a decent price but I am afraid that this may not be the latest design release model. Any suggestions?

d) With so many views regarding accuracy of various brands of colorimeter how can one have the confiidence that the calibration is correct?

Thanks

I am totally new to calibration. I am just beginning to explore the HCFR s/w. So please bear with me for some of the questions here are quite basic. Since the tutorial in the HCFR is still under construction , I am using this link as a starting guide:

http://geekwithfamily.com/2006/12/16...tion-software/

I have some questions:

a) What selection of displays to use for Plasmas? ...CRT ?

b) The horiz axis is IRE but the grey windows on the Getgray disk is not in IRE but % amplitude . How to cater for this?

c) Can I use the colorimeter from SpyderExpress ? Is this the same Is there a particular Revision date or # for the as the Spyder 2 in the HCFR s/w. Is there a way to tell whether it's the latest unit? I ask because Costco has the Spyder Express for a decent price but I am afraid that this may not be the latest design release model. Any suggestions?

d) With so many views regarding accuracy of various brands of colorimeter how can one have the confiidence that the calibration is correct?

Thanks

A. CRT
B. ColorHCFR actually means % and not IRE (most noobies remember greyscale always spoken in IRE terms - so that was the angle I believe at the time)
C Yes to use the Spyder, not sure on the .DLL you will need, but you probably should download the latest and greatest that Colorvision software will have for it..Id personally would ask that you purchase a D2LT instead of the Spyder..Although not full supported for Plasmas- it will on the near release
d. You can only assume that its in spec. Obvious will be if your doing greyscale and it looks OFF (a tint color to it), then you know that somethings is not right possibly with the probe..

A. CRT
B. ColorHCFR actually means % and not IRE (most noobies remember greyscale always spoken in IRE terms - so that was the angle I believe at the time)
C Yes to use the Spyder, not sure on the .DLL you will need, but you probably should download the latest and greatest that Colorvision software will have for it..Id personally would ask that you purchase a D2LT instead of the Spyder..Although not full supported for Plasmas- it will on the near release
d. You can only assume that its in spec. Obvious will be if your doing greyscale and it looks OFF (a tint color to it), then you know that somethings is not right possibly with the probe..

Tks for the replies above.

a) When you say D2LT did you mean eye 1 LT ? Any idea when the new release is?

b) Why is there so much support for LCD and Proj TV and so little for Plasma ? Is it because the original intended application is towards LCD and CRT monitors for computers , photography and prints and its only lately that its being applied to TV ?

c) Being color blind myself I am wondering whether its worth the calibration effort and expense beyond the 5 basic adjustments ?

Hello,

a) Yes, pretty soon (we are talking days)
b) Plasma are very similar to CRT in behavior, there is no need for a specific mode
c) Definitely

--Patrice

Tks for the replies above.

a) When you say D2LT did you mean eye 1 LT ? Any idea when the new release is?

b) Why is there so much support for LCD and Proj TV and so little for Plasma ? Is it because the original intended application is towards LCD and CRT monitors for computers , photography and prints and its only lately that its being applied to TV ?

c) Being color blind myself I am wondering whether its worth the calibration effort and expense beyond the 5 basic adjustments ?

A. YES
B. Not Sure
C. You have friends??;) - non-color blind??

Sportflyer,

The same Eye-One (i1) Display colorimeter is sold as:
1) Eye-One Display 2 (aka "i1Display 2" and referred to as the "D2" package)
2) Eye-One Display LT (aka "i1Display LT" and referred to as the "D2LT")

These are the same probes with slightly different vendor software features enabled. For Color-HCFR, these are identical.

The next step up is the Eye-One Pro (aka i1Pro) spectroradiometer. This is sold in many packages with different licensed software features, including (there are too many to list):
Eye-One Beamer (i1Beamer) ...includes holder for projectors
Eye-One Design LT (i1DesignLT)
Eye-One Photo (i1Photo)
Eye-One Photo LT (i1PhotoLT)
Eye-One Proof (i1Proof)

Again, all of these packages include the same i1Pro probe and are identical for use with Color-HCFR.

I have a few questions...

1) Anyone selling kits for the DIY HCFR probe in the first post of this thread?
- any instructions in English?

2) Anyone used this software with the DIY or Spyder2 to calibrate a Samsung LED based DLP?
- how were your results?

thanks!

I have a few questions...

1) Anyone selling kits for the DIY HCFR probe in the first post of this thread?
- any instructions in English?

2) Anyone used this software with the DIY or Spyder2 to calibrate a Samsung LED based DLP?
- how were your results?

thanks!

DLarsen (poster), he has them for sale..

Just remember that you would need either an existing calibration file with ColorHCFR or a secondary probe..

DLarsen (poster), he has them for sale..

Just remember that you would need either an existing calibration file with ColorHCFR or a secondary probe..

So this lends itself to more questions...

'existing calibration file' -- get this where? from someone that has the same TV? Please explain.

'secondary probe' -- you mean like a Spyder2? Is this is the case why not just by the Spyder2 and have a single probe?

Maybe I completely misunderstand... my apologies this thread is so large now it is impossible to read it all or even find answers most of the time by searching.

thx for the help!

Anybody have any hands on time with the spyder3 ?
If so is it any better than the spyder 2 as far as accuracy goes?

Thanks

So this lends itself to more questions...

'existing calibration file' -- get this where? from someone that has the same TV? Please explain.

'secondary probe' -- you mean like a Spyder2? Is this is the case why not just by the Spyder2 and have a single probe?

Maybe I completely misunderstand... my apologies this thread is so large now it is impossible to read it all or even find answers most of the time by searching.

thx for the help!

The calibration files are within ColorHCFR (for that specific model you have - if it exist). If you go and open the program, select the ColorHCFR as the probe and you will see that when you do this, underneath it will let you browse for calibrtion files that exist, if it doesnt then your next step will be to get someone who has a calibrated file and then use that as the calibration file..

The spyder can be used, but the ColorHCFR probe can read down lower and with greater speed - but not more accurate because its basically cloning your spyder...

Hi,

how can I use my Spyder3 with this great software?
HCFR do not support this new sensor yet, what do I need to
use it? Anyone help me?:confused:

Thank you
Daniel

Hi,

how can I use my Spyder3 with this great software?
HCFR do not support this new sensor yet, what do I need to
use it? Anyone help me?:confused:

Thank you
Daniel

Spyder 3 is not supported..possibly the other version will - but they will have to answer that.

It is not yet supported, but that should be the case pretty soon...

--Patrice

Hi Patrice,

oh that would be nice to support Sp3!!!
I got the Spyder3 on Xmas....
then I found these wounderful HCFR software...France is great,
I drive Peugeot now for 20 years....

happy new year,
Daniel:)

Hi,

I'm a long time reader and first time poster.
After getting a GMB Display 2 for Christmas, specifically to use with the ColorHCFR SW, I've been trying to get a realistic/accurate reading from my TV ever since.

Could someone take a look at my .chc file and tell me where I'm going wrong ?

Effectively, red is way off the chart, as is blue. However, when I use the sensor with the supplied software, it appears to work just fine. Having calibrated my laptop PC to a pleasing degree and, passing all it's diagnostic checks.

The panel is a Sony 40W2000 (UK)which, I think is similar to one of the XBR's in the states but, probably a similar designation in the rest of the EU.

I'm using the HCFR pattern DVD, LCD mode in the software and attaching the sensor to the screen (gently) by the suckers. The measurements are taken in a pitch black room.

Despite reading up to page 70 of this thread, and having learnt much about the calibration process, I'm still none the wiser to why I can't get a decent reading from what I see as a good basically calibrated screen.

Many thanks in advance.

Paul

Hello,

While this is my first post, I have been lurking for quite some time... at least long enough to decide to buy a DPT94 over a Spyder2 because I couldn't afford what the Display2's were going for before Christmas.

As noted previously, this thread has gotten so long as to be practically unusable for finding out how to use the software. I have a DPT94 sensor and would like to use this, but need a "Using ColorHCFR for Dummies" type thread so I can get started. I just got a Samsung 7288W (72" DLP RPTV) set and would like to get it more calibrated. I have tried using DVE (DVD), but it does not seem to work as well as it did when I used it on the 60" Marantz standard def CRT RPTV this Samsung replaced.

I also wonder if it might have something to do with upconverting from 480p to 1080p with my Samsung BD-P1400. Hmmm, will the patterns on the DVE DVD work ok for calibration?

Anyway, I would really, really appreciate it if someone could point me to a "dummies" thread so I can understand how this will work.

Thank you for your help in advance!

Best regards,

Scott

@youngsyp

Not familiar with this display but those measurements are really screwy and since you eliminated the probe as the problem, it's either the dvd/player or some incompatibility between the probe and your display. Have your tried moving the probe away from the screen a couple of inches or any other sources?

I was looking at the information screen recently and noticed some glaring issues with the calculations within HCFR. They're off. Any word on when those may be fixed? For example, the XYZ, xyY, and color temp all seem good. But the L*ab and RGB numbers are off. I was checking it reference the Lindbloom calculator.

mech

RGB depends on the colorspace and the conversions used. When I did the spreadsheet I've used for color decoding I believe I got the same numbers as HCFR if I went XYZ to RGB with the Rec 709 and SMPTE-C matrix values. As for Lab, I agree that my spreadsheet based on the Lindbloom site doesn't seem to match the Lab shown in beta 149.

@youngsyp

Not familiar with this display but those measurements are really screwy and since you eliminated the probe as the problem, it's either the dvd/player or some incompatibility between the probe and your display. Have your tried moving the probe away from the screen a couple of inches or any other sources?Well, I would seem that the probe is ruler out but, when I take measurements (with ColorHCFR)from the laptop I calibrated with its OE software, I get the same/similar spurious readings ?!
Also, I've downloaded the trial version of the Babelcolor software and on a grey image, it shows up as being measured as pink. Of course, I could be using the Babelcolor software incorrectly.

Also, I've turned the colour on my panel down to '0' and then taken another full greyscale measurement, again, with the same/similar results.

Now, there is definitely red push with the current picture settings but, the rest of the colours, including skin tones and foliage are great.

I'll take a few measurments at a distance from the panel and see what that shows up.

Out of interest, if I posted up the results of the D2's diagnostic readings (these are XYZ figures for the primaries and black an d white), from it's own diagnostic suite, could you tell me if the sensor was working (at least within tolerances) of how you'd expect it to ?

Many thanks

Paul

Hey All

As I am new to this and still learning, does this software support the Spyder2 Express? (ie. this tool below)

http://www.canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=011058&cid=SW.433

Secondly, I assume you would need to access your TV's Service Menu to make most of the changes recommended by this software, correct?

Regards,

Craig

Out of interest, if I posted up the results of the D2's diagnostic readings (these are XYZ figures for the primaries and black an d white), from it's own diagnostic suite, could you tell me if the sensor was working (at least within tolerances) of how you'd expect it to ?

Many thanks

Paul

Probably not, the diagnostics probably only check if the signal is in the correct range. If the probe is really off you will easily see it in dim grays. Try this, calibrate the PC using supplied software and view a 20% gray pattern from the DVD, does it look gray or does it look too pink (or green or blue)? Do the same with your LCD. If both the PC and the Sony produce incorrect grayscales after calibration then you have a bad probe.

Hello,

While this is my first post, I have been lurking for quite some time... at least long enough to decide to buy a DPT94 over a Spyder2 because I couldn't afford what the Display2's were going for before Christmas.

As noted previously, this thread has gotten so long as to be practically unusable for finding out how to use the software. I have a DPT94 sensor and would like to use this, but need a "Using ColorHCFR for Dummies" type thread so I can get started. I just got a Samsung 7288W (72" DLP RPTV) set and would like to get it more calibrated. I have tried using DVE (DVD), but it does not seem to work as well as it did when I used it on the 60" Marantz standard def CRT RPTV this Samsung replaced.

I also wonder if it might have something to do with upconverting from 480p to 1080p with my Samsung BD-P1400. Hmmm, will the patterns on the DVE DVD work ok for calibration?

Anyway, I would really, really appreciate it if someone could point me to a "dummies" thread so I can understand how this will work.

Thank you for your help in advance!

Best regards,

Scott

Go to alluringreality's calibration dvd download http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496 and check out the links he has at the bottom of the first post. HCFR is due to have a new version out very soon--it may have a user's guide or more extensive help menu included. Another resouce is: http://www.accupel.com/Calibration_FAQ_f.html I found that using Tom Huffman's guide (link provided by alluringreality) and playing around with HCFR's software got me 90% of the way there. Searching HCFR threads with specific questions about menus and configurations should give you most of the rest. It is a fairly complicated topic, so slogging is unavoidable, I think.

Hey All

As I am new to this and still learning, does this software support the Spyder2 Express? (ie. this tool below)

http://www.canadacomputers.com/main.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=011058&cid=SW.433

Secondly, I assume you would need to access your TV's Service Menu to make most of the changes recommended by this software, correct?

Regards,

Craig
See page 100 of this thread for discussion of Spyder 2. I don't own it, so can't comment. You may or may not need access to service menu, depends on display. Type of controls available, either through user or service menu, varies widely from display to display. See Tom Huffman's excellent thread referenced above.

Probably not, the diagnostics probably only check if the signal is in the correct range. If the probe is really off you will easily see it in dim grays. Try this, calibrate the PC using supplied software and view a 20% gray pattern from the DVD, does it look gray or does it look too pink (or green or blue)? Do the same with your LCD. If both the PC and the Sony produce incorrect grayscales after calibration then you have a bad probe.well, I just recalibrated the laptop using the OE software. The picture is slightly better and I've run through a batch of photoes, to see if all is as it should be, as well as the 20% grey pattern. Again, the ColorHCFR package and D2, don't give the sort of measurements, the actual picture portrays. The red and blue measurments are way off the scale but, the actual picture looks great.
I think I'm going mad but, as I sit here in the dark, I can see red and green LED's on various pieces of kit, and they look..... red and green. I just don't understand why my D2 doesn't seem to want to play, with the colorHCFR software.

Oh, and I didn't calibrate the TV with the OE Eye-One software as, I don't have a vGA cable to hand. However, once again, the 20% grey pattern on the TV, looks grey, and just that.
Are there any config settings within HCFR, that I'm not putting in the right place ?

I also tried the sensor around 3" to 4" away from the laptop screen on a greyscale measurement test and go roughly the same results as previously !

Paul

...
Are there any config settings within HCFR, that I'm not putting in the right place ?

I also tried the sensor around 3" to 4" away from the laptop screen on a greyscale measurement test and go roughly the same results as previously !

Paul
Paul,

Assuming everthing is in the default installation locations, make sure you copy the "C:\Program Files\GretagMacbeth\i1\Eye-One Match 3\EyeOne.dll" file to the "C:\Program Files\Colorimeter_HCFR" folder. It's a longshot, but if you haven't done this already, HCFR may be using the wrong dll from somewhere in your Windows path.

If that doesn't work, reinstall HCFR and copy the file again.

-JD

Paul,

Assuming everthing is in the default installation locations, make sure you copy the "C:\Program Files\GretagMacbeth\i1\Eye-One Match 3\EyeOne.dll" file to the "C:\Program Files\Colorimeter_HCFR" folder. It's a longshot, but if you haven't done this already, HCFR may be using the wrong dll from somewhere in your Windows path.

If that doesn't work, reinstall HCFR and copy the file again.

-JDJD,

Thanks for the response.

I've copied, removed and copied again, the .dll file, on a couple of occasions now as, I had the same thought as you.
I've also uninstalled and re-installed the ColorHCFR software once. However, I'm not sure if I completely removed the old version so, I'll try this again.

I find it really odd as, it appears that the sensor works great with the OE software but, for some reason, doesn't work at all with ColorHCFR. Luckily enough, I've managed to borrow a Spyder2 sensor. So, when that arrives, I see how it behaves with the software.

Paul

Been contemplating getting into the service menu for a while now. Finnaly did it and it wasn't all that bad concidering all the warnings about screwing it up bad.

Attached are my before and after readings. I hope I did it correctly. I ran the continuous measurements and increased my rdrv from 100 to 185!! and lowered the bdrv and gdrv slightly to get the values to track 6500. Is this correct?

I then ran the grayscale measurements using getgray and spyderII, primaries, secondaries, and contrast.

I am not sure how to go about raising the white level. I was not able to increase picture control enough to get the three white blocks to match. The highest I could get was the two on two lightest to match with the third slightly off. Is there any way to increses this or is this a limitation of my set? The blacks look fine (darkest three match).

Thanks

I find it really odd as, it appears that the sensor works great with the OE software but, for some reason, doesn't work at all with ColorHCFR.

Paul

Measure and post a grayscale from your calibrated laptop. Also, compare the eyeone match software CIE diagram to the one HCFR generates.

Is still there a good colorimeter, supported and reliable that is suggested to be used with HCFR? Some are discontinued and Spyder2 looks a bit... hem!!!

What about Spyder3?

Best bang for the buck is the Display LT.

It's sold under a few different names (Gretag Macbeth, Pantone, Eye One) but it's the same meter and has been compared very favourably to the much more expensive EyeOne Pro.

I've been told just a few minutes ago (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12736609#post12736609), by a professional calibrator, that latest tvs (I suppose like my pio 508) need special devices "spectroadiometers" to get an accurate calibration..... :(

Some display types work "better" with a spectroradiometer, I believe the LED based DLPs are the most problematic, but plasmas can be calibrated just fine with a colorimeter device like the Display LT.

Every display type has it's nuances and there are a few discussions about the LT and how it works with plasmas here.

If you are going to be doing it yourself the Display LT is fine.

If you are going to be doing it yourself the Display LT is fine.

:) smile is back!

BTW: can I use my DVE DVD patterns, along with HCFR?

BTW: can I use my DVE DVD patterns, along with HCFR?

sure:)

Hi All,

It's been about 6 months since I last calibrated my panisonic plasma 50ph9uk and just last night I noticed that somebody had reset all my grayscale numbers in the user controls (never did get around to implementing the calibration in the more permanent service menu). Anyway, the good news is this gives me an excuse to spend a few hours with the worlds greatest calibration package HCFR and getgray this weekend;-)

My question is, has anything changed over the last 6 mos or so? Is 1.22 still the latest SW version? I am using the display LT probe. Anyting new regarding the nir issues? Any procedural updates?

Thanks!

Rich

I'd like to use the colormeter software to calibrate my current Sanyo z2 front projector and my future 1080P projector which may be LCD or DLP. Excluding the cost factor of either the Spyder2 or the HCFR DIY (for sale version) which are about the same, based solely on technical issues which Probe do you recommend for my needs?

If this is your first and only colorimeter, or you're new to calibration, I’d recommend the S2 even though I think the DIY HCFR probe out performs it. The warm fuzzy feeling factor. You’ll have nothing to base a comparison on with only one meter and you’ll be more limited in creating your own HCFR calibration files. Also, The HCFR probe only talks to the HCFR app.

For a performance comparison, see this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=844188&highlight=shootout

Dave

If this is your first and only colorimeter, or you're new to calibration, I’d recommend the S2 even though I think the DIY HCFR probe out performs it. The warm fuzzy feeling factor. You’ll have nothing to base a comparison on with only one meter and you’ll be more limited in creating your own HCFR calibration files. Also, The HCFR probe only talks to the HCFR app.

For a performance comparison, see this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=844188&highlight=shootout

Dave

Please pardon my ignorance. What is different about the the S2 meter that you don't need a comparison calibration? Also for practical purposes and home use will the S2 work with the HCFR software (including the version 2 coming out?

What is different about the the S2 meter that you don't need a comparison calibration?

The S2 doesn’t use a separate calibration file (matrix coefficients) with HCFR. The HCFR probe uses calibration files that reflect a given display technology spectral power distribution (SPD)

Also for practical purposes and home use will the S2 work with the HCFR software (including the version 2 coming out?

Can’t speak to what V2 will/won’t do. I’ve not see it unleashed yet…

Dave

I don't see any mention of using a Spyder2 with a front projector on their website, but it seems we're doing it. How do you direct the Spyder 2 with a FP?

Does anyone have any new info on the release of V2.0.? Has any one compared HCFR with CalMAN ?

v2.0 is about to be available, just need to tidy a couple of things (especially a last minute Vista bug)... Lets says, about two weeks to go... (team, don't hurt me... :D)

--Patrice

Does anyone have any new info on the release of V2.0.? Has any one compared HCFR with CalMAN ?



I have both the HCFR and Calman 3.

Calman has allot more info and help documents explaining what to do and why you are doing it. Calman is more like video calibration 101 very customizable and helpful.
Final readings from both were similar it is just easier to get where you want to go with calman.
If you are experienced in video calibration you can probably slide by with HCFR and a probe.
IMO Calman is worth the investment if you are interested.
HCFR is good if you want to display your end results.

That's a very good summary...
Although ColorHCFR have a huge amount of help, guides and support... ... in French... only (so far) ;)

--Patrice

That's a very good summary...
Although ColorHCFR have a huge amount of help, guides and support... ... in French... only (so far) ;)

--Patrice

Time to brush up on my French.
Looking forward to V 2.0
I like the interface and charts though.:)

Where will we able to download the new version from?

Does anyone know how to get to the "xyY support tool" hidden in the SpyderTV software? I read that you need the original "exe" file I can't find it.



Pioneer PRO-150FD ELITE
Denon 3806 AVR
Denon 2910 DVD
Panasonic BluRay
HR20 HD DVR
DVDO VP50 PRO

I believe you need to launch the Spyder application with "/support" as the command line option.

Where will we able to download the new version from?

There is a link in the first post of this thread. When 2.0 is released that's where it should be.

While using HCFR my spyder2 just quit. I relaunched the program and got an error mes. I reloaded my SpyderTV and now that get's an error mes. Does anyone have a working copy of the driver that can be sent? My version is 4.0.0.5

Does anyone know how to get to the "xyY support tool" hidden in the SpyderTV software? I read that you need the original "exe" file I can't find it.



Pioneer PRO-150FD ELITE
Denon 3806 AVR
Denon 2910 DVD
Panasonic BluRay
HR20 HD DVR
DVDO VP50 PRO

Or, Hold CTRL+ALT, and type in the word 'sierra', within SpyderTV.

Hi Jimmy,

Okay, I sort of thought that may be where I'd find it but wasn't sure, thanks

Sorry for insisiting on the same issue but would like to understand: It has been said many times that Display LT and Display 2 are exactly the same hardware, what changes is software; if that is true why Display 2 is described in the reviews as a faster sensor? Faster measurements, more accurate results and ambient light detetction.... all these features are only due to marketing magicians and smarter software?

Or, Hold CTRL+ALT, and type in the word 'sierra', within SpyderTV.

Thanks Lee, worked great. Now if I could get my S2 to work with HCFR again I'd be fine. I dont know what happened all last weekend it worked great then last night it just stopped. "NO DATA FROM SENSOR"

v2.0 is about to be available, just need to tidy a couple of things (especially a last minute Vista bug)... Lets says, about two weeks to go... (team, don't hurt me... :D)
Awesome :D

v2.0 is about to be available, just need to tidy a couple of things (especially a last minute Vista bug)... Lets says, about two weeks to go... (team, don't hurt me... :D)

--Patrice

If I may suggest a new thread for v2.x? I'm new to this an trying to read through everything just to get to posts that are helpful is near impossible to do.

Yep it is likely we will create a new thread...

--Patrice

Hello Laric,

First let me thank you and your team for the great software that give my
spyderTV (spyder2) hardware more potential to calibratie my tv :)

Are there any improvements in the V2 software for my spyder2 or is it already
at his full potential in V1.xx?

I also like a feature in the software to tell me if i calibrate a LCD to take the baflle (filter) on or off as for an CRT you have to take it off otherwise you get strange readings from your sensor.

greetzzz,

Danny

I'm sure this has already been asked, but does the i1pro work with the current version of HCFR? If not the current version, how about v2.0?

Yes for the current version and most likely for 2.0 as well.

ok then what about sencore color pro 2?

sorry guys, would like to find out how can we use this calibration tool for non-PC source?

sorry guys, would like to find out how can we use this calibration tool for non-PC source?

Not sure what you mean by this question.

The S/W and meters that it uses must be run from a PC.

I think I got confused. Although the software and probe is run from PC, we can actually feed any source to the TV for calibration right?

Correct.

The best way to do it is to actually use a calibration DVD in your DVD player when taking the readings since you want to calibrate the entire chain.

The same is true for and HD player if you have one of those.

Where it gets problematic is that if you have HD cable or satellite the settings for that input will have to be copied over from another input since unless you have a professional signal generator you won't be able to feed it a correct signal. Even then the signals that are received by cable/satellite are often all over the map anyway.

Hi guys, I'm hoping that I can get a bit of assistance after taking my first stab at set calibration with ColorHCFR. I'm still scratching my head on a few things.

I don't have any REAL set calibration experience although I've always used at least Avia or DVE to set up my TVs and had a previous CRT RPTV of mine calibrated twice.

I downloaded and installed ColorHCFR onto a laptop and hooked up my Spyder colorometer. I burned the AVC HD disc (for my PS3) and used it to generate all of the test patterns.

I had a very hard time figuring out where to "start" with all of this and found several different (sometimes conflicting) views in this thread of which calibration to do first, what to adjust first, etc.

Ultimately I tried doing a "quick and dirty" calibration using this site as a guide line;

http://geekwithfamily.com/2006/12/16/home-theater/howto-hcfr-free-video-projector-calibration-software/

And here's where the confusion begins. The author makes note of using a blue filter on his Spyder2. I'm not sure that I have a blue filter for my Spyder2 sensor, my television is a Sony SXRD set, do I need the blue filter?

I followed the instructions for taking the initial grayscale measurements, changing the RGB levels and then taking 75% readings from the AVCHD disc for all of the primary and secondary colors. My colorspace was 709 which should be correct for the HDMI 1080P output from my PS3.

Now is where it gets confusing. I see that my gamma from grayscale is 2.02 and might need to go up a bit, but how do I adjust it?

There's a note about refering to the CIE diagram for setting up color levels, but when I pull up the CIE diagram, after taking color measurements, there are no data points displayed (even if I have "show measurements" checked). What am I missing?

When I pull up the Free measures window and start measuring a gray field (20%, 80%, etc) I can see the color temp tracking around 8,000 Kelvin, but nothing I do with adjusting the contrast/brightness, color, hue, seems to have any effect on this. The only thing that seems to change the grayscale tracking is adjusting cuts and gains on my white balance adjustments. I was able to adjust my cuts and gains (A LOT!) and get the red green and blue lines to converge and saw a color temp reading of around 6200 which seems low.

The resulting picture had fairly good color accuracy but seemed pretty warm.

If anyone can provide a bit more assistance I really would appreciate it. I am also considering purchasing Calman, to simplify the process, but usually I am able to tackle technical challenges like this on my own without needing a step by step guide.

Thanks!

jpmage2, have you read TomHuffman's guide that is stickied at the top of the forum?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

Follow the instructions in it and it's hard to go wrong.

jpmage2, have you read TomHuffman's guide that is stickied at the top of the forum?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

Follow the instructions in it and it's hard to go wrong.

jvincent,

I've reviewed the document but was trying to find something that was a little more specific to ColorHCFR since that's what I'm going to be using. I was also looking to get as good of an alignment as possible without having to access the service menu on my KDS60A2000.

One thing that still puzzles me is this reference from Tom's doc;

Point your colorimeter towards the screen and display a 75% Red window.
Use the software controls to plot the Red reading on a CIE chart.

How do I do this with HCFR? When I take primary and secondary readings and then display the CIE chart I don't see any data plots. I don't see data plots even if I start a "Free Measures" session and point the colorometer at a primary/secondary color.

Any help still appreciated, the guide you referenced was more helpful the second time I read it as I've already tried (and failed) the calibration once.

I was also looking to get as good of an alignment as possible without having to access the service menu on my KDS60A2000.

I don't know how well that TV will do without access to the service menu but I have seen lots of good results in the HCFR results thread.


When I take primary and secondary readings and then display the CIE chart I don't see any data plots. I don't see data plots even if I start a "Free Measures" session and point the colorometer at a primary/secondary color.

Any help still appreciated, the guide you referenced was more helpful the second time I read it as I've already tried (and failed) the calibration once.

That's odd. Once you do a primary/secondary measurement you should see the measurement values in the HCFR tables. You should also see coloured circles on the CIE chart corresponding to each of the size measurements. The primaries will be connected by white lines to form a triangle.

If you use the continuous measurement function you should see a single circle (yellow IIRC) appear on the chart.

I don't know how well that TV will do without access to the service menu but I have seen lots of good results in the HCFR results thread.




That's odd. Once you do a primary/secondary measurement you should see the measurement values in the HCFR tables. You should also see coloured circles on the CIE chart corresponding to each of the size measurements. The primaries will be connected by white lines to form a triangle.

If you use the continuous measurement function you should see a single circle (yellow IIRC) appear on the chart.

I will retake measurements and check it again. The numerical values show up in the primary/secondaries tables but no data points appear on the CIE chart at all.

What I am expecting to see is a point with the correct 709 values for the primary and secondary colors and where my displays results line up. I should then be able to make some minor bias (color/hue) adjustments to get these values as close as possible. If I'm mistaken here please let me know.

Thanks again for responding.

What I am expecting to see is a point with the correct 709 values for the primary and secondary colors and where my displays results line up. I should then be able to make some minor bias (color/hue) adjustments to get these values as close as possible. If I'm mistaken here please let me know.


Correct. The reference measurements show up as squares on the chart. Make sure that you have the reference set up to 709 in the "Preferences".

I should then be able to make some minor bias (color/hue) adjustments to get these values as close as possible. If I'm mistaken here please let me know.


use cuts/bias for grayscale calibration only. If you have a CMS system (or just tint and color) use Tom's guide and the CIE chart.

Not sure I should say it now, (Team don't hurt me ;)) but I can tell you a Mac version will come... At least it is on the work... :D

--Patrice

Can't Wait!!

The best way to do it is to actually use a calibration DVD in your DVD player when taking the readings since you want to calibrate the entire chain.


dun be amazed but I have no DVD player although I own a 5084. :p The only player I have on hand is just the popcorn hour which is HD capable. I do have another Thomson SD DVR for viewing cable TV programmes (via component, 576p).

How can I get the right calibration tool to playback on my TV so that the probe could read them correctly? I do not have access to my SD DVR HDD , so how shall I calibrate for it?

OK, round 2 of extra help! :)

I've reviewed Tom's guide (that was helpfully linked above) and have some extra questions;

Select a target gamma. I cannot think of any reason to choose any gamma other than 2.2 or 2.5.*
Measure the peak output if you have not already using a 100% white window or field.
Display a 10% window or field.
Adjust the Brightness setting so that this test pattern measures as close as possible to 0.63% of peak white (2.2 gamma) or 0.32% (2.5 gamma).

Where in HCFR can I see these gamma values so I can correctly set the brightness?


Digital rear projection: 35 fL
If you use HCFR, you can determine fL by multiplying the peak output (100% Y) by 0.29.

Is this still accurate? When I try to set contrast this way I wind up with a value of 90 on my set.


Measure the Y value of white (this is essentially the brightness or intensity of the white window).
Display a 75% Red window, and measure the Y value here as well.
You will notice that as you move the Color control up and down, the Y value of Red increases and decreases, but white stays the same.
Set the color control at the point where Red measures closest to 21% of the white reading.

I'm guessing this is Y value that shows up under Live Measurements? If so then I'm setting my color all the way up to 70 (way too high) to get the 21% white level with 75% test patterns on the screen.


Point the colorimeter towards the screen and display a 75% window of Cyan.
Use the software controls to plot the Cyan reading on a CIE chart.
Adjust Tint up or down until the reading places the measured point as close to the target on the CIE chart as possible (it is useful if the software has a continuous reading mode, so you can see changes you make to Tint in real time).

Is there any way to do this in real time with HCFR? I'm still very confused by this. I've included a screen shot below to demonstrate what I see when I measure color. I do see an outlined triangle but have no idea what affect the TVs controls have on getting it to approach the reference triangle, or how I can make adjustments real time and see what's going on with this. It's extremely confusing. PS, I don't know what a "CMS" system is or if my TV has it.

I also want to say I do appreciate the help, if I can avoid having to buy expensive calibration software and can use this software to set my TV up it would be fantastic;

http://home.comcast.net/~audi-fan/misc/cie2.JPG

If you run a continuous mearure, you can display the CIE dagram and it will show you exactly where the screen you are measuring is in relation to the CIE triangle you measured. Also if you select the "Display measures information" button while running a continuous measure, you can see in real time where your currect grayscale measurement is compared to D65.

Measure the Y value of white (this is essentially the brightness or intensity of the white window).
Display a 75% Red window, and measure the Y value here as well.
You will notice that as you move the Color control up and down, the Y value of Red increases and decreases, but white stays the same.
Set the color control at the point where Red measures closest to 21% of the white reading.

I believe the percentage of white for setting saturation for your primaries is going to change depending on the color of your primaries. I believe there is a link to the calculator for finding this percentage in the thread for Tom's guide.

OK, first things first. For Tom's guide to make sense you need to set HCFR to display all it's measurements in xyY mode. You have it set to display RGB. Click the xyY button in the "Display" box and you'll get what you want.

For continuous measurements just hit the green arrow in the "Measures" box. It will give you continuous readings of xyY and show the yellow dot on the CIE chart. Be aware that it will take a couple of readings for it to stabilize when you switch patterns.

When adjusting Red to be 21% of white make sure that if you use the 75% Red window that you use the 75% white window or your results will be messed up.

Jvincent,

yes, I've measured that way as well and still don't see the CIE chart populating. Here's a screenshot of measures "running" with xyY selected and a cyan (or gray) field on the sensor and although the "measures" values update no data populates in the CIE chart;

Am I still missing something here (Calman to the rescue? :( )

http://home.comcast.net/~audi-fan/misc/cie3.jpg

Not sure why it wouldn't display. Save the .chc file and post it here (zip it first) and I can see what I see.

Jvincent,

yes, I've measured that way as well and still don't see the CIE chart populating.
Usually this is caused by using a low bit color setting on your PC's video card. Access your Windows Display Properties, select the settings tab, and choose 24 or 32 bit color. It may also work with 16 bit, but it won't work with 256 colors.

Jvincent,

yes, I've measured that way as well and still don't see the CIE chart populating. Here's a screenshot of measures "running" with xyY selected and a cyan (or gray) field on the sensor and although the "measures" values update no data populates in the CIE chart;

Am I still missing something here (Calman to the rescue? :( )

http://home.comcast.net/~audi-fan/misc/cie3.jpg

Hi,

Maybe a mouse rightclick on the CIE-chart and select what you want to see in the chart??

Greetzzz

Danny

Just saw this. Wanted to download the pattern generator. Did that but it's in French..

Is there an English link? Just wanted the patterns.

thanks

Usually this is caused by using a low bit color setting on your PC's video card. Access your Windows Display Properties, select the settings tab, and choose 24 or 32 bit color. It may also work with 16 bit, but it won't work with 256 colors.

Give this man a cigar!

That was the problem. The laptop was actually set to 16 bit color, bumping it up to 32 bit got all those pretty little dots to display.

Thanks to everyone else for their suggestions. Now I'm off with this latest knowledge to take another crack at calibrating this beast.

J

I have the x-rite GretagMacbeth EyeOne i1Display LT

I put the EyeOne.dll in the c:\Program Files\Colorimeter_HCFR folder (as suggested by Tom Huffman) which I understand allows EyeOne colorimeter to work with HCFR

When I start HCFR I do the following:
1) File>New

2) this opens the Generator Selection window - I've tried all 3 choices
a) view images,
b) HCFR generator and
c) DVD Manual

3)the next window that opens is "Select a Sensor" - but - EyeOne is not there, it only has four sensor choices
a)HCFR Sensor
b)Simulated sensor
c)Spyder II
d) DTP-94

Am I doing something wrong? I assume that the EyeOne.dll is supposed to provide HCFR some kind of info and that "selecting the WRONG sensor" won't let HCFR work correctly.

Anyone using HCFR with i1Display LT?

Thanks for any info that will un-confuse me.

--craig

Anyone using HCFR with i1Display LT?

The copy of HCFR I have on the computer here has the eye one at the bottom of the list for select a sensor.

The copy of HCFR I have on the computer here has the eye one at the bottom of the list for select a sensor.

Does it have the eye one pro listed as well?

I have the x-rite GretagMacbeth EyeOne i1Display LT

3)the next window that opens is "Select a Sensor" - but - EyeOne is not there, it only has four sensor choices
a)HCFR Sensor
b)Simulated sensor
c)Spyder II
d) DTP-94
Are you sure you downloaded and installed a recent copy of HCFR from the first post in this thread? IIRC, the initial 1.22 Version was missing the support file for the EyeOne. This was temporarily fixed with version 1.22f, but that should be incorporated into the 'new' 1.22 build in the first post.

EDIT: BTW, cross-posting your question on three different threads is frowned upon here!:(

Are you sure you downloaded and installed a recent copy of HCFR from the first post in this thread? IIRC, the initial 1.22 Version was missing the support file for the EyeOne. This was temporarily fixed with version 1.22f, but that should be incorporated into the 'new' 1.22 build in the first post.



That's the problem. I had 1.12 - got 1.22f and I see EyeOne. Thanks.

Give this man a cigar!

That was the problem. The laptop was actually set to 16 bit color, bumping it up to 32 bit got all those pretty little dots to display.

Thanks to everyone else for their suggestions. Now I'm off with this latest knowledge to take another crack at calibrating this beast.

J

Calibration went pretty well, I was shocked at how much I had to adjust cuts and gains on the sets white balance to hit 6.5K throughout the IRE range.

I wasn't able to completely use Tom's method. I couldn't get my 60KDSA2000 to hit 2.1 for gamma and I also didn't get accepteable balance for color using the white/red balance percentages he provided.

I performed the calibration with a Spyder2 sensor. Would I benefit substantially from upgrading the sensor to the Eyeone colorometer?

I seem to recall from the meter shootout thread that the Spyder has quite a bit of error relative to some of the other probes when it comes to measuring luminance (Y).

I seem to recall from the meter shootout thread that the Spyder has quite a bit of error relative to some of the other probes when it comes to measuring luminance (Y).

Ya, I just read the shootout thread and the Spyder2 appears to be a rather innacurate device, so who knows how far off my grayscale is, especially at anything under 60 IRE.

Unfortunately the desireable device is the i1Photo Pro which goes for $650-$1000 which is 1/2 as much as the display cost and would only really be worth it if I was willing to get into the sets color decoder guts and really mess around.

Someone should offer a rental service on these higher end meters! :)

Ya, I just read the shootout thread and the Spyder2 appears to be a rather innacurate device, so who knows how far off my grayscale is, especially at anything under 60 IRE.

Unfortunately the desireable device is the i1Photo Pro which goes for $650-$1000 which is 1/2 as much as the display cost and would only really be worth it if I was willing to get into the sets color decoder guts and really mess around.

Someone should offer a rental service on these higher end meters! :)

the Display2LT is very competitive at $130.

the Display2LT is very competitive at $130.

From the shootout it didn't appear that the Display2LT was a whole lot more accurate than the Spyder2, but maybe I misinterpreted the test results.

.....Where it gets problematic is that if you have HD cable or satellite the settings for that input will have to be copied over from another input since unless you have a professional signal generator you won't be able to feed it a correct signal. Even then the signals that are received by cable/satellite are often all over the map anyway.

Here in Italy, Sky has a test pattern on channel 997 very similar to this

http://www.kolori.it/public/Cinescopio.jpg

Do you think it can be used to succesfully calibrate the satellite input?

From the shootout it didn't appear that the Display2LT was a whole lot more accurate than the Spyder2, but maybe I misinterpreted the test results.

its a whole lot more, especially in measuring GAMUT where the Spyder return huge difference from the i1Pro and the Display2 was pretty dead on.. although less so in probably greyscale..but as a whole..its a much better colorimeter..

its a whole lot more, especially in measuring GAMUT where the Spyder return huge difference from the i1Pro and the Display2 was pretty dead on.. although less so in probably greyscale..but as a whole..its a much better colorimeter..

I will consider getting the Display2 sensor, I believe it can be had in the Eye-one LT package for $130.

I have an SXRD and it appears that it's the most difficult type of display to measure (from Tom Huffman's shootout results) with the Eye-One Pro being the most desireable way of doing it. The Pro can be had right now for $530 after rebate which is probably as cheap as it's going to get for such a good tool. I'm still on the fence though.

If someone with a Pro meter is willing to rent it to me for calibration of my display I will make it worthwhile, just send me a PM.

Where can an i1pro be purchased with rebate for $530?

Where can an i1pro be purchased with rebate for $530?


https://www.digitalgraphicsresources.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2091

It shows $799 and a $200 rebate direct from X-rite. When you add it to your cart you get an additional discount that takes the price down to $733 before rebate and they have free shipping.

At this price I am sorely tempted to get a meter that will probably allow me to calibrate all of my displays for years, not to mention the displays of my friends, family, etc.

Nevermind, it's apparently a new rebate form.

On another note, The Photo LT doesn't come with a suction cup mount. All it comes with is a mount that has a short strap and a counter weight. This makes it highly inconvenient for calibrating a HDTV. I was forced to hold it in place and juggle everything with my other hand.

Nevermind, it's apparently a new rebate form.

On another note, The Photo LT doesn't come with a suction cup mount. All it comes with is a mount that has a short strap and a counter weight. This makes it highly inconvenient for calibrating a HDTV. I was forced to hold it in place and juggle everything with my other hand.

That's good info. Is the suction cup mount something that can be ordered and added to the meter?

Does it have a tripod mount capability? I would think that it would be possible to tripod mount it and still use it to measure LCD/Plasma/RPTV, etc.

I'm about to look into that. I do know that the tripod mount comes with the beamer upgrade kit, which you can take instead of the $200 rebate. I'm not sure if the suction cup mount comes with the beamer or not.

For tripod mounting, you simply buy a sunction cup add a bolt that can screw on the tripod, and glue it to the back of the sunction cup..works like a charm..

If you register for free at CALMan, you will see what I am talking about..

btw..PHOTO LT?? hmmm...should be Display2LT, which has a built in suction already

The Photo LT is one of the many i1 pro packages you can buy. It comes with the i1 pro, a mount with a counter weight for hanging on a computer monitor and the software and tools for calibrating your monitor and printer. The big upside to this package is that it's one of the cheapest packages available and there is a $200 rebate on top of that. Comes out to $530 shipped and after the rebate.

"Photo LT" is an i1 Pro package for computers...

Edit : I missed the above post !

--Patrice

"Photo LT" is an i1 Pro package for computers...

Edit : I missed the above post !

--Patrice


The sensor is the same. There should be no reason you can't use it with Calman or HFC to calibrate a TV.

Sure, there is no reason not to use it, it actually works flawlessly...

--Patrice

Thanks richlo, I checked out the calman forums, and that seems like a good solution. My only worry would be my eye one falling off the suction cup to the floor. But for about $5, it's definitely worth a try.

For those wondering, the DIY tripod mount there is a 1" suction cup superglued to a 1/4" hex nut. This will screw right onto a normal tripod. This would probably work for the display 2 and spyder probes as well.

Thanks richlo, I checked out the calman forums, and that seems like a good solution. My only worry would be my eye one falling off the suction cup to the floor. But for about $5, it's definitely worth a try.

For those wondering, the DIY tripod mount there is a 1" suction cup superglued to a 1/4" hex nut. This will screw right onto a normal tripod. This would probably work for the display 2 and spyder probes as well.

1/4"-20 to be precise....

Patrice,

Any new info on the availability of HCFR v2.0?

Thanks to you and your team on all of the hard work put into making such a great product.

"Photo LT" is an i1 Pro package for computers...

Edit : I missed the above post !

--Patrice

oohhhh:D

Does anyone have the proper cvspyder.dll file for HCFR?
I really need this file! I have a spyder 2 without the software for it.

It is not enough to simply have the cvspyder.dll in the HCFR folder, you must have the windows drivers loaded for the spyder on the computer you are going to run the software on.

If I'm mistaken someone here can certainly correct me.

Does anyone have the proper cvspyder.dll file for HCFR?
I really need this file! I have a spyder 2 without the software for it.o

Can't you download the software from the colorfacts website for the spyder2
and install ?

greetzzz

Danny

My display LT sensore came into my house, so I couldn't resist to have a go playing with it.

As playing, I had a go with calibration using only my satellite provider test pattern. So once set the sensor model and the the standard reference to PAL/SECAM, I've stepped into measurements!

The first difficulty was to trick HCFR to use a CRT (I own a plasma screen), as it was stating it couldn't detect the proper refresh rate, so I've switched to LCD.... a fatal error?

While it was quite simple to set the proper grayscale, probabily because using only 4 black-to-white patterns (I've told HCFR to perform 4 measurements) it was hard to set proper color amount, using the red 100%pattern....to get to the proper value I had to push color to it's maximum..... there must be something wrong I'm doing!

The first difficulty was to trick HCFR to use a CRT (I own a plasma screen), as it was stating it couldn't detect the proper refresh rate, so I've switched to LCD.... a fatal error?


Let's hope this problem will be solved with the new v2 version :)


greetzzz

Danny

Does anyone have the proper cvspyder.dll file for HCFR?
I really need this file! I have a spyder 2 without the software for it.

pm me if u find, need it too

pm me if u find, need it too

how difficult is it to just register on the colorvision site (for free, no strings attached) and download the software :mad:

just the DLL isn't enough, you need the driver too

besides that, how can someone own a spyder without having the software ?

how difficult is it to just register on the colorvision site (for free, no strings attached) and download the software :mad:

just the DLL isn't enough, you need the driver too

besides that, how can someone own a spyder without having the software ?

It's that simple :)

Some questions for HCFR authors and experts.

I'm using the latest version with I1 Display LT sensor under windows Vista.

1) I'm experiencing some program locks, sometimes I need to terminate the program through task manager. As Windows Vista is a real crap, specially when leaving UAC active, I think it could depend on Vista's problem. Is anyone experiencing the same problem.

2) I've read that HCFR is not suited for plasma display, so I have switched to LCD tricking the program. Is it okay? Why plasmas aren't supported?

3) Do you experience some troubles when reading red color with Eyeone Display LT? I get some low values on Y... dunno if it is a sensor problem or HCFR's when measuring data from a plasma tricked as LCD....

4) Sometimes when reading data in continuos mode from the sensor using the CIE chart in real time, nothing happens if the probe is moved from one color to another, like if the sensor is not reading data.... is it normal?

5) Is there an explaination of the possible settings in HCFR? There are many and I'm unsure if using it properly......

6) How should I use the Display LT sensor? With it's white cover or without?

Thanks for helping

2) I've read that HCFR is not suited for plasma display, so I have switched to LCD tricking the program. Is it okay? Why plasmas aren't supported?

HCFR works just fine with plasmas. For certain plasmas the readings from the D2 probe in LCD mode show a relatively large error in the red reading compared to an i1Pro. This is apparently better in the next version but is perfectly usable in the current one.


4) Sometimes when reading data in continuos mode from the sensor using the CIE chart in real time, nothing happens if the probe is moved from one color to another, like if the sensor is not reading data.... is it normal?

Sometimes it locks up for a while, other times it works OK. This is a S/W - probe interaction which is hopefully fixed in the new version.


6) How should I use the Display LT sensor? With it's white cover or without?

No cover.

Some questions for HCFR authors and experts.

I'm using the latest version with I1 Display LT sensor under windows Vista.

1) I'm experiencing some program locks, sometimes I need to terminate the program through task manager. As Windows Vista is a real crap, specially when leaving UAC active, I think it could depend on Vista's problem. Is anyone experiencing the same problem.

2) I've read that HCFR is not suited for plasma display, so I have switched to LCD tricking the program. Is it okay? Why plasmas aren't supported?

3) Do you experience some troubles when reading red color with Eyeone Display LT? I get some low values on Y... dunno if it is a sensor problem or HCFR's when measuring data from a plasma tricked as LCD....

4) Sometimes when reading data in continuos mode from the sensor using the CIE chart in real time, nothing happens if the probe is moved from one color to another, like if the sensor is not reading data.... is it normal?

5) Is there an explaination of the possible settings in HCFR? There are many and I'm unsure if using it properly......

6) How should I use the Display LT sensor? With it's white cover or without?

Thanks for helping


Red reads low from my Spyder2 sensor when reading my SXRD TV. I still have a fairly good grayscale now after doing 6.5K calibration with the Spyder2 HCFR so it can't be too far off.

Patrice,

Any new info on the availability of HCFR v2.0?

Thanks to you and your team on all of the hard work put into making such a great product.
On Jan 11, Patrice said maybe 2 weeks away

I'll bet that like me we have been at this page for a couple a times a day the last few days to check if there is a new version of ColorHCFR ;).

Will the new version improve the readings from the SpyderTV or are there 'general' improvements?
I have spend a lot of time during late evenings in the dark to calibratie my Philips 32PW9520 directview CRT tv AND read this forum from page 1 to 57 to gain information :eek:

BTW i love the software :D

greetings,

Danny

On Jan 11, Patrice said maybe 2 weeks away

And it seems we'll be at the rendez-vous*

*in french in the text

BTW

Is anyone aware that if you open a *.chc file from another user to set the
preferences exact like gamma,ntsc or pal-secam etc otherwise the plots
and histograms does not look the same as the measures from that user:confused:

greetz,

Danny

For RearProjector CRT users - (using CRT MODE for DTP-94)

I have had the hardest of time calibrating a Mits55807 CRT tv that was professionally calibrated some years ago. I wanted to tweak the greyscale, when I first ran my ColorHCFR for original settings...the greyscale was hovering over/close around 7500 (d75) and I calibrated it at D65 (x=3127 y = 329)...After calibrating...I was never impressed by the looks, the results where by number - fantastic - but the pix always had the rouge look (magenta in a way)..GUESS WHAT..I realize that at least with this Mits (and let me tell you I have a PERFECT COLOR DECODER professionally done by a proMits calibrator)...Calibrating to D75 is what it should be and NOT D65...This was also an issue with a friends of mine who I did their Mits, I just could never get why I was getting poor viewing results, I thought I just didnt know how to use the COLORPERFECT in the Mits..Now I know...its D75 not D65..if any of you are having the same issues with your RearProjector CRT, calibrate to D75 and see your results..I am BEYOND happy now..

I have calibrated to D75 instead of D65 and MY PICTURE CAME ALIVE:eek::)... so
had anyone done the same like richlo and me :confused:

greetz

Danny

I have calibrated to D75 instead of D65 and MY PICTURE CAME ALIVE:eek::)... so
had anyone done the same like richlo and me :confused:What about other aspects of the color performance? It may be that the slightly bluish color temperature is compensating for some deficiency elsewhere.

I have calibrated to D75 instead of D65 and MY PICTURE CAME ALIVE:eek::)... so
had anyone done the same like richlo and me :confused:

greetz

Danny


What kind of meter did you use? I believe it's also been reported that red reads low in HCFR with some sensor/screen combinations, so it's possible that you simply adjusted for that when calibrating at D75.

The human eye reacts more favorably to the color blue, so it's possible that you just fine the D75 more pleasing, even if it isn't as accurate.

Ok Guys,
you were right, about plasma and power drain.
Last night I've re-calibrated the tv using Tom's patterns (yep, I've discovered my DVD player does NTSC..... will the colors be decoded correctly?) and... yes! my red Y is correct for both Tom's guide and my eyes!

I still don't understand how is it possible to calibrate a TV set in a scenario that will not be the ordinary one (calibrate a small area, with low power drain and use the TV set full screen with medium to high power drain)...... maybe Tom's calculations are aware of this plasma beahviour?

Now the results: quite bad! I had only a few attempts cause I was a bit tired (it is the third night I'm calibrating... and I can start only when my family is asleep!) and I'm getting strange results using the "standard" color space I've used in the last attempts.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9490/06pdp508xdcolorspace2dvfv0.jpg


1) Given what they look correct adjustments of contrast and brightness, gamma si now down to 1.96 with undefined contrast

2) Yellow is now back into the CIE chart, but I'm unable to push red and green in the proper place... I could get R & G in the proper place only pushing YCM far away from the right place. BTW one important point should be to know if it is better to set RGB in the proper place on the CIE chart even at the cost of forceing YCM in the wrong places, or if it's better to look for a comprimise having all RGBYCM not in the proper place but not so far... Tom maybe can explain.

I need to investigate!

Edit about the gamma: As I've said I'm stuck @ 1.96 with proper contrast and brightness, should I aim for 2.2/2.5 and..... how?

What kind of meter did you use? I believe it's also been reported that red reads low in HCFR with some sensor/screen combinations, so it's possible that you simply adjusted for that when calibrating at D75.

The human eye reacts more favorably to the color blue, so it's possible that you just fine the D75 more pleasing, even if it isn't as accurate.

@ Tom Huffman and JMPAGE and others ;)

I use the SpyderTV on a PAL directview crt tv.(baffle off and crt in HCFR)
GAMMA setting Camera Gamma and 16-235 selected in HCFR
With te baffle on and lcd mode i get the same 'feeling' about the picture.

I have calibrated my tv for the past 3 weeks and the result was a bit dissapointing to me until i try the D75:confused:.

Contrast at 40 in a scale from 0-100 and brightness at 48 are fine.
I also checked the color setting with a blue filter and Getgray PAL AND in the CIE in HCFR they are almost perfect except for green but within limits;).

All seem fine for gamma and greyscale in HCFR but the 'punch' in
the picture at D65 always lacks a bit in low and midtones.
I should also try a D70 to see the results between D65 and D75 if that give
me 'the best of two worlds'
I know after read A LOT of treads in this forum the spyder2 is not acurate
in low levels but a direct crt measure give me fair good reading from 20 to 30 IRE.

Still looking for a solution for viewing pleasure at D65:o

2 files (all @ D65) of my calibrations included in the post
nr 6 is perfect @ 30-50-80 IRE when doing 0-100 IRE
nr 7 is not perfect but with constant measure @ 30-50-80 IT WAS:confused:

greetz,

Danny

I still don't understand how is it possible to calibrate a TV set in a scenario that will not be the ordinary one (calibrate a small area, with low power drain and use the TV set full screen with medium to high power drain).

The thing to remember is that a 100% window screen probably outputs as much light as most fullscreen "normal" scenes.

BTW one important point should be to know if it is better to set RGB in the proper place on the CIE chart even at the cost of forceing YCM in the wrong places, or if it's better to look for a comprimise having all RGBYCM not in the proper place but not so far... Tom maybe can explain.

Unless you can get all the points exactly to their reference locations there will always be some compromise.

Ideally you want to get all the points as close as possible to their reference positions. If you can't get them there then try to get them to be positioned on the lines that go through the white reference. For example, there is a line that connects the green primary and the magenta secondary reference locations that goes through white. Try to get green/magenta on that line.

That's exactly what it's said in this interesting article (http://209.85.135.104/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=fr%7Cen&u=http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D29821526)

It is the google translated version of the french article.

Hello,

A have a question for the ColorHCFR developers

The SpyderTV software ask me to remove the filter(baffle) when measuring the black and white,but when i have to do a colour measuring it ask me to apply the filter/baffle on the spyderTV (Spyder2 hardware)

Is that also calculated in the HCFR software?

I have a directview CRT television and i choose CRT and camera gamma a 2.22 and
the baffle is off.

Danny

from my understanding you keep the filter on all the time unless its a CRT

Hello,

About a year after releasing v1.22f we are now proundly announcing availability of ColorHCFR v2.0.

You will find it here : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/ColorHCFR/index_en.php

I would like to take the oportunity to thanks all our team members and especially Georges G. that drive and code a huge amount of this new version (almost 80% of code is different :D)
Also many thanks to Benoit (Ki) and Michel (mlill) for their huge number of tests and feedback... and obviously to many AVS posters and testers, Zoyd, alluringreality, hwjohn, lovingdvd and many others. ;)

We really hope you'll enjoy this new release, we have tried to add many features you were asking for... Everything won't be there, some may find this and that not the way they'd like, but as usual we had to make some compromise, but really think the goal is acheived.
This version is faster, better and even more accurate than before (especially when using third party probes). ;)

Version 2.0 fully open and manage v1.22f files, the reverse is not true (file format change).
BTW, we strongly encourage you to upgrade ;)

I will now open a new Thread...

This version did not install itself in same directory as 1.22 (this is on purpose)
You can chose to do so, no problem, but you'll have to ammend the default install dir (now "ColorHCFR")
I would anyway recommend you de-install v1.22f (although there is no problem at all to install v2.0 on top of it).
Take care, if you zap former version, you may have copied some probe DLLs in the "Colorimeter_HCFR" directory, you will have to copy them again to the new v2.0 "ColorHCFR" dir.


Many changes in this version, starting with a new user interface and many other cool things, build-in pattern generator, fixes, probe tunning, etc, etc...

We let you discover all this and are waiting for your feedback ;)

Obviously this version (and any others) is free and is release under GPL licence.

We are hoping you'd be pleased by this version, we will now work on upcoming v2.1 (yes, there is still some stuff to do, especially add new probes and some feature not tuned enough to make it to v2.0)

Enjoy,
--ColorHCFR Team

Fantastic!
Can you post a link to the new thread? I've just downloaded the software, DVD and..... PayPaled! :)

There is something new in the version: now, there is an help file in English ;)

(It's mostly my English... I hope it is not too much Frenglish... :o )

Georges

Thanks,

New Thread is : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12928563#post12928563

You can also participate on French forum... ;)

--Patrice

Thank you, thank you, a thousand times thank you!

:D Fantastic

I there any bankaccount (i don't have paypal) where i can do a donation?
I have Rabobank here in The Nederlands (Holland)

Greetz,

Danny

ColorHCFR Team,

Many thanks for all your hard work in bringing a free tool that allows for excellent calibrations for the budget minded hobbyist.

I can't wait to try this out as my new LT sensor is showing up later this very day!

Thanks,

Jason.

All of us who have benefited from your wonderful work want to thank the HCFR Colorimeter Team. You have made a very significant contribution to the enjoyment and appreciation of cinema in the world. What you have accomplished is extraordinary, and we appreciate it.

And the long wait is over. :)

Looking forward to trying out the new version.

Thank you very much for the release of 2.0 and your past and (hopefully) future work.

:)

hi all,

any idea what's the diff between Spyder2 Suite and Spyder2 Express? can both be used on this calibration tool? which one is better?

Can't wait to try v2.0! Congrats team, can't thank you enough :)

Nevermind, figured out my problem. The software doesn't automatically have you configure your sensor like the old software did. I had to go in and configure it to the i1 pro. The software had automatically defaulted to the display 2 in LCD mode. Doh.

Thank you very much for the extraordinary work.
I encourage everyone appreciate this work to make a donation. I'll do it. The software itself and the support all these guys deliver on this forum are much more worthy than free.

Hi sperron
Nevermind, figured out my problem. The software doesn't automatically have you configure your sensor like the old software did. I had to go in and configure it to the i1 pro. The software had automatically defaulted to the display 2 in LCD mode. Doh.
The software never detected the probe type (D2 or Pro), you have to select it manually. But when selected once, it keeps your choice in ColorHCFR.ini file, so you usually do it once and that's always fine ;)

Georges

There is something new in the version: now, there is an help file in English ;)

(It's mostly my English... I hope it is not too much Frenglish... :o )

Georges

I just discovered this amazing thread.

I did a search for "manual" but don't seem to find anything that looks like a users manual. Is there an English version of the manual?

shouldn't you consider closing this thread?

:cool:

Hello
I just discovered this amazing thread.

I did a search for "manual" but don't seem to find anything that looks like a users manual. Is there an English version of the manual?
When you install the product, there is an online help. This help exists in French and English. That's what I called improperly "manual"...

Georges

hi all,

any idea what's the diff between Spyder2 Suite and Spyder2 Express? can both be used on this calibration tool? which one is better?

ditto

What is the proper way to use a spyder 2 with a projector?

Is/or will the Huey be supported?

Okay, I'm a newbie in using HCFR software... so what should I do?

I assume:
1. install program
2. plugin Spyder2Express colour reader (I've been using Spyder2Express for several months for my PCs)
3. open HCFR software... then what?

What I need to do (for the time being) is to set Color Master so I need to set the hue, saturation and lightness for 100% RGBCMY.

Ill be using AVS HD 709 (BD version).

I was trying to get started from the HELP menu. But the "First Execution" is all gone!

any idea where can I get the steps to kick start?

It would seem the best thing to do is lock this thread and provide a link to the new one...

:confused:

Okay, I'm a newbie in using HCFR software... so what should I do?

I assume:
1. install program
2. plugin Spyder2Express colour reader (I've been using Spyder2Express for several months for my PCs)
3. open HCFR software... then what?
A lot of people seem to have the exact same questions on how to get up and started with the HCFR software so I've put together a (hopefully) easy to use step by step guide that walks you through the entire process using the 2 most common colorimeters (Spyder2 and Eye-One).

See:

GREYSCALE CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES » (http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457)

Over 200 hours of research and writing have gone into this guide so far.

This guide came about as the do-it-yourself (DIY) crowd has been asking more and more about greyscale calibration over the years. With reliable colorimeters now under $150 USD and excellent free software like ColorHCFR available, it's a no-brainer that all DIY enthusiasts have some sort of colorimeter in their toolbox. If for no other reason than to better appreciate the complexities of colour calibration when they speak to a professional calibrator.

Countless number of calibration guides have been published prior to this one. Some of them quite good. The problem I found is that most assume that the reader already has the required equipment and knows exactly how to set it up properly. Most guides also assume that the reader has a good understanding of terms like D65, stimulus, CIE, etc. Some even provide links to highly technical documents as "required reading". Yes, many of these documents are very informative, but not everyone wants to earn a doctorate in colorimetry so that they can set their greyscale properly.

My guide takes a step backwards and makes the assumption that the reader has absolutely no knowledge of colour calibration. In fact, this guide assumes that the reader doesn't even *know* what "greyscale calibration" is! I explain what it is, why it's important, list the tools needed, where to get them, and walk you through the process from start to finish.

I hope you find it useful.

Comments and feedback are appreciated. I'm still tweaking portions of it as questions arise and adding new sections.

Kal

I have the Optimagery sensor that comes with Colorfacts, does it works with this program?

Thanks for any help,

Federico

As far as how I mount my eye-one to my tripod... I should take a picture. You all might get a kick out of it.

Brian, I don't think you ever posted a picture of the tripod setup. I'm an owner of an Eye-One Display2 and am very interested in seeing how you mounted yours. Thanks. :)

Brian, I don't think you ever posted a picture of the tripod setup. I'm an owner of an Eye-One Display2 and am very interested in seeing how you mounted yours. Thanks. :)

A check of Brian's profile would have shown that he hasn't posted on AVS in four months, so sending him a private message might have gotten a better response than posting a reply to something that he wrote over a year ago on an abandoned thread.

I am getting very different greyscale readings every time i come back to calibrate my set even though the settings haven't changed. I calibrate the meter often. any ideas what may be going on here. I have a eye one Lt and a mitsubishi wd-65835 dlp. I mount with the suction cups.

Does this work with Win64? I have the driver for my DTP-94 but it cant open it and work with it? Any known incompatibility? Thanks

Hi,

Yes the application works fine in Vista64... It is possible your driver didn't...

--Patrice

Driver (http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=730&Action=support&SoftwareID=746)
According to x-rite it should work on 64-bit platform (vista) as well. Download toolcrib app to get the most up to date DTP94 drivers. Don't forget to copy .dll file required for HCFR to work with DTP94.

How is HCFR Probe compared to i1 pro? Worse, equal, better?
Thank you!

This has probably been asked before, but I couldn't find it in this long thread. Why does the sensor ( I am planning on bying the Eye One Display LT) have to be pointed to the screen, why not aiming directly at the projector?

This has probably been asked before, but I couldn't find it in this long thread. Why does the sensor ( I am planning on bying the Eye One Display LT) have to be pointed to the screen, why not aiming directly at the projector?Because you want to include the effect that the screen has on the colours/light output. The screen changes things. We watch the screen, not the projector.

Kal

Because you want to include the effect that the screen has on the colours/light output. The screen changes things. We watch the screen, not the projector.

Kal
Ok good point :-)

But besides that, wouldn't a direct measurement (towards projector) be more accurate because of the higher readings which might be a good thing escpecially for lower IRE measurements?

Ok good point :-)

But besides that, wouldn't a direct measurement (towards projector) be more accurate because of the higher readings which might be a good thing escpecially for lower IRE measurements?
Sorry, but that's irrelevant/illogical. It's not more accurate because it's not what you're watching. You have to calibrate for the light that you're watching which is the light that bounces off your screen.

Yes, you may get more or less light if you point the sensor directly into the projector lense(s) but that's irrelevant as it doesn't match what your eyes are seeing.

You *want* to measure the true light output that hits your eyes. That means pointing at the screen.

Kal

Ok good point :-)

But besides that, wouldn't a direct measurement (towards projector) be more accurate because of the higher readings which might be a good thing escpecially for lower IRE measurements?
There is a way to do that but it's kind of a pain. I think it's under the Advanced menu (adjustment matrix). It requires you to measure off of the screen, then set that as a reference. Then you aim the sensor at the PJ but you need to put the diffusor on it. Then HCFR adjusts the color readings based on the refence readings. Since you have to use the diffusor, and the one that comes with the i1 is not that accurate (from what I understand), you might be taking 1 step foreward and 2 steps back. I think it's best to measure off of the screen.

Should I invest in a colorimeter or just pay someone to calibrate the thing?

Is the calibration something I will have to do with some frequency?

Should I invest in a colorimeter or just pay someone to calibrate the thing?

If you want to do it by yourself, you have to do a lot of (internet) reading and spend a lot of hours trying to achieve the best result. I did it and liked it a lot, but I don't know if you would like it too.

Is the calibration something I will have to do with some frequency?

No, but you should check after a period if everything is still OK.

If you want to do it by yourself, you have to do a lot of (internet) reading and spend a lot of hours trying to achieve the best result. I did it and liked it a lot, but I don't know if you would like it too.



No, but you should check after a period if everything is still OK.

Thanks!

Should I invest in a colorimeter or just pay someone to calibrate the thing?

Is the calibration something I will have to do with some frequency?

Like hariskar, I learned a lot in doing it myself.

You should be aware that you need to calibrate to each source, i.e., DVD player, game box, etc. Many professional calibrators will calibrate for all your sources when they are there. Even so if you later replace your DVD player or other video source, you will need to recalibrate for that new device. So if you learn to do it yourself, you won't need another visit.

Obviously, a professional calibrator will use tools that are beyond the price range of a casual home user, so the results should be more accurate. And he will be much more efficient, as you will make a few mistakes and have to redo the process as you learn.

Does anyone know if there is support planned for the Chroma 5 sensor from X-rite. It seems to be well regarded and much less expensive than a Eye-One.

No HCFR support for the Chroma 5. You have to be a OEM partner to support the Chroma5 which the HCFR guys are not because you have to buy and resell C5's in large quantities. We only charge $50 for our software when buying a C5 so not much of a cost difference.

Is there any standard formula for calculating 0-255 color value <-> IRE?

I use 50 IRE values (0,2,4 etc) for my Excel sheet and I checked that in different test pictures the color index values are not the same. Can somebody with HCFR sources tell what kind of function does HCFR use?

Currently I use this formula:
Color_index=ROUND((256-1)*IRE_VALUE/100+0,5)-1

Kai,

I have searched this thread fo an answer but Jan. 2008 is the latest post I could find. Will HCFR run on a Mac? I have an iMac with OS 10.5.6 and will use a display LT or Display 2 meter.

Thanks
KT

Go to the new thread and ask there.

Kai,

I have searched this thread fo an answer but Jan. 2008 is the latest post I could find. Will HCFR run on a Mac? I have an iMac with OS 10.5.6 and will use a display LT or Display 2 meter.

Thanks
KT
They say it does:
A mac OS X version of the colorHCFR software is now available.
This version works on mac OS 10.4 and 10.5, on intel and PPC processors. http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php

Hi, as usual I am coming into this thread late but better late then never they say, anyways have a Front projector Sanyo Z2000 will this color HFCR work even if my screen is not a tube like???? Thinking of going the cheapest way possible so that would be the Spyder2??? Is it worth the calibration after all the download to my laptop etc?

Thanks

Hello ,

i used the Spyder 2 with HCFR aswell , but get no good results.
Get an Eye One , and you will be happy , because at <40 ire you get no acurate results with the spyder.
And the Eye one ist much faster.
You can do the whole Greyscale in less than 15 min.
I catch an used Eye one for under 100€ at ebay.

Thanks for your reply, will look around for the eye one.

I've got a geometry problem with my 960 and I could use some help.

The picture is skewed as follows: the top left corner is lower than top right corner, and lower left corner is lower than the lower right corner.

BUT the left and right sides are parallel to each other, and straight up and down.

So if I correct the skew by tilting the image clockwise, the left and right sides are no longer vertical. They are tilted.

If you imagine the image is a section of fence, and the posts are perfectly vertical, then the problem is that the left fencepost is lower than the right one. I want to lift that left post so it's the same height as the right post.

Any idea how to do this? I've checked the geometry pages of the service manual. Maybe it's some combination of service menu adjustments?

the diy colormeter on hcfr site, do they sell them? I'd do it myself if i wasn't inexperienced with soldering

i'm surprised how expensive some colormeters are when they look so cheap in make and build, the markup profit they must make on them must be high

$80 for the cheapest all the way up to $500 and they probably cost under $15 to make

the diy colormeter on hcfr site, do they sell them? I'd do it myself if i wasn't inexperienced with soldering

i'm surprised how expensive some colormeters are when they look so cheap in make and build, the markup profit they must make on them must be high

$80 for the cheapest all the way up to $500 and they probably cost under $15 to make
I would suggest an eye one LT to start with.

I would suggest an eye one LT to start with.

everyone suggests eye one, it seems so fishy to me like they are advertising it

Its $120-$150

these Do it yourself colormeters are like $15 but i can't build one myself, if someone sold the one made by the HCFR guys for $30-$40 that would be great

then it needs to be calibrated.... $$$

:p

then it needs to be calibrated.... $$$

:p

the calibration business is fishy!

lower the prices of the colormeters, its ridiculous

after reading the dummy guide its not that hard for anyone to do it themselves especially with the great free software out there available to everyone