I have recently discovered HCFR and am trying to get my head around this whole calibration thing. Making progress slow but sure. Like alot of you I wished there was an english "help" file. I could not find one at least. Anyway, with the help of a french to english translation program I have come up with something that is somewhat useable. Unfortunately the embedded images did not translate, but with the program running to reference, it still might be ok. It is in RTF format and I will try to attach.

There is a ENGLISH help in the works that will soon be release..

greeno-

My set is a Hitachi 51F510. I even tried an old Samsung DVD player using Composite connection and had the same result. Other than that, it still looks fine.

HDholic-"You cannot adjust Primary/Secondary colors with this method. Are all those menus per input?"

from what I've read about my projector it goes like this...
DTV -> Component input 1&2 (No realtime adjustment)
DVD -> YUV input on DVI connector (Realtime adjustment)
VIDEO -> video & S-video (Realtime adjustment on video)
AD -> RGB input on DVI connector (Realtime adjustment)
DLP -> All inputs (Realtime adjustment on RGB input)
VIDEO1 -> video & S-video (Realtime adjustment on video)
PIXEL -> All inputs (Realtime adjustment on all inputs)
Pedestal -> video & S-video (Realtime adjustment on video)
OPTION -> All inputs

Looks like the DVI is only affected by the DLP, Pixel and OPTION menu's.
The reason why realtime and not realtime is up there because once in the service menu the screen goes black.

Greeno- My 971H only has DVI out and my projector only has DVI in (NO HDMI) so I don't know. I'll post my readings up.

My projector does have color adjustments it's just called Red adjustment and Blue adjustment. Heres what I have to work with:
User Menu
Contrast
Bright
Red
Blue
Color Temp
Gamma adjust
It looks like you have what's needed from the user menu. For Red and Blue(in user menu) does it give you brightness and contrast? For color temp, use the one closer to 6500K then adjust R,B. I take it that you can calibrate gamma too. So, your OPPO is connected to DVI input? What's your projector?

I have the Sharp DT-400 the twin to the Sharp XV-Z2000.
as for the brightness and contrast for Red and brightness and contrast for blue.... no.
it just says red and blue. As for color temp... there is 5500K, 6500K, 7500K, 8500K, 9300K, and 10500K... each with a 0 to 10 setting. 0 being at the given temp and as you go up it gets warmer.
As for Gamma there is Standard and Cinema 1, 2, and 3... each with a 0 to 3.

Have you done a grayscale reading at 6500K setting? Also, try the Gamma settings in Cinema to match the gamma curve in HCFR with a standard setting. If it's too far off then you'll need to go in the service menu.

I did these readings set on NTSC and RGB 0-255

Make sure you don't have PAL selected on References. Red and Green line up rather nicely but there's a strange hiccup at 30IRE. Try adjusting the Blue down. Use continuous measures. For Gamma select Standard in references and try different settings until the yellow curve lines up with the white curve.

Yeah.... I actually ran this twice there was a really big hiccup before. It makes me wonder why it changed so much and I didn't change anything. I have the Spyder2... That might be why.

I have the Spyder2 also, never experienced anything like that. BTW, like I mentioned before, use HDTV reference since you are upconverting. Read here http://www.datapopuli.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19&highlight=upconverting.

what pattern should I throw up to get the gamma reading.... or is it when I do gray scale reading it kills two birds with one stone?

RGB levels 0-255 or 16-235. All my logic is 16-235.... but on here they seem to say 0-255.

what pattern should I throw up to get the gamma reading.... or is it when I do gray scale reading it kills two birds with one stone?
Got that one right :D ! Did you try adjusting blue down?

guy's with 971's, what are you setting the dvi color output to, rbg or YCbCr 4:4:4? Is there a setting in the display for the colorspace? I'll bet that's the issue with why your getting HD colorspace.

Best,
jeff

RGB levels 0-255 or 16-235. All my logic is 16-235.... but on here they seem to say 0-255.
Honestly, I've done so many readings and never saw a difference, the only thing I noticed is that on 0-255 it tells you what color is gonna read, 16-235 doesn't, funny but true. So go with 0-255, that way u know what color it asks for :) ! I have CalMan, and I compare alot, so I'm confident in my tips :D .

guy's with 971's, what are you setting the dvi color output to, rbg or YCbCr 4:4:4? I'll bet that's the issue with why your getting HD colorspace.

Best,
jeff
There's no menu/setting to select.

guy's with 971's, what are you setting the dvi color output to, rbg or YCbCr 4:4:4? Is there a setting in the display for the colorspace? I'll bet that's the issue with why your getting HD colorspace.

Best,
jeff
I just checked and there is a NTSC or PAL but no RGB or YCbCr.

I just checked and there is a NTSC or PAL but no RGB or YCbCr.
Where's that?

Right you are... just went through the manual for the 971. 970 lets you select. Having that option would fix this issue. Sorry to hijack... thanks for the info...

jeff

how do you adjust brightness and contrast with hcfr?

Hey what's with the read time at 30IRE being all faster then the rest..... I even tried to make it longer and it didn't change.... all the others did but not 30IRE.

Where's that?
A there can't be a DVD in the player.... it's on the farthest right menu

Hey what's with the read time at 30IRE being all faster then the rest..... I even tried to make it longer and it didn't change.... all the others did but not 30IRE.
That's a bug they're working on for next release. It comes to remind me, maybe that's the hiccup you get at 30IRE. How's everything coming along, getting anywhere? Funny there's people calibrating at 2AM :eek: !

Yeah I've got to go to bed.... One more thing.... it seems like I need to find the extremes of this projector..... How do I know which Gamma to chose? If I pick one.... and get it all right, how do I know if I'd chosen a different one that my Contrast Ratio would have been higher or the Lumens would have been higher. It just seems like I change one thing and then do 10 reads.... change one thing and do 10 reads. There has to be a faster method or this will take me months!

I'm no video/projector expert at all, but I don't think Gamma has anything to do with how much contrast ratio you would get. That has more to do with the difference between your black level @ 0IRE and your contrast level @ 100IRE. Basically, you would choose a setting with the highest luminance output that will still give a good deep black level, not dark grey. Gamma is used to determine if black/white detail is lost or crushed.

SmokeyJ -

I think that crashing of file 10 is because I have a BETA software update - it might be crashing earlier versions??? hmmm.
You rae right, your Beta version files cannot be open with v1.12. (but reverse is obviously ok).

We hope to release new version pretty soon... (next week...)

--Patrice

Guys this is a great piece of software, congrats and thanks. :)

Does anyone else besides me not trust the spyder meter on 10 and 0 ire? I do not think it is accurate even with the read time extended to the max and I cant even get a reading at 0. Is there a workaround for this or should I just concentrate on 20-100? Thanks again guys I will post my results as soon as I finish tweaking the colors. I am still learning what the software can do. I did not know about the continuous feature, I will play with that today. Thanks guys for this, it is saving me money and probably a trip to divorce court :D

Does anyone else besides me not trust the spyder meter on 10 and 0 ire?From what I found the spyder2 is quite unreliable below 0.5cd/m2.. Depending on your pj, brightness, gamma, etc that might be anywhere between 0 and 40 % stimulus.

// Lyckman

guy's with 971's, what are you setting the dvi color output to, rbg or YCbCr 4:4:4? Is there a setting in the display for the colorspace? I'll bet that's the issue with why your getting HD colorspace.

Best,
jeff


Yes, NTSC or Pal region on the 971

On my Mits3000U, I select RGB, HDMI to DVI/971

Hi guys,

I've been doing more calibrating and reading of this thread. I still can't seem to get the spike out from the luminance chart nor can I get the cie chart corrected. The color/tint adjustments dont seem to do anything on the CIE chart to get the color points accurate.
The PJ is an Optoma HD72 and an older panasonic A120 dvd player...

The color measurements and grey scale were taken using the AVIA disc. I'm thinking that maybe the disc color patterns are 100% patterns instead of 75% patterns causing the cie chart colors to be over saturated.

Any suggestions??? Would the get grey disc be a worthwhile investment to verify if this is correct?

Idea for the HCFR developers.

I was just looking at the get gray disc and noticed the the HCFR when doing a primary measure is the same as get grey order. RGB.. But the measurements for the secondaries is different HCFR collects in YCM order. However the disc displays these consecutively as CMY. So a nice useability feature would be to allow one to set the order of primary and secondary color measurements...

Thanks again for an excellent piece of software.

bean-

If your projector doesn't have controls to adjust Color Decoder(for Primary/Secondary colors), you won't be able to adjust them. I don't believe turning down color will help because when you adjust color/tint with blue filter or outputting blue only(if projector supports this), you might have to bring color back up. Don't brake you head over it, as long as you have accurate greyscale, gamma, brightness, contrast, color and tint, you'll get a good picture.

Hi guys,

I've been doing more calibrating and reading of this thread. I still can't seem to get the spike out from the luminance chart nor can I get the cie chart corrected. The color/tint adjustments dont seem to do anything on the CIE chart to get the color points accurate.
The PJ is an Optoma HD72 and an older panasonic A120 dvd player...

The color measurements and grey scale were taken using the AVIA disc. I'm thinking that maybe the disc color patterns are 100% patterns instead of 75% patterns causing the cie chart colors to be over saturated.

Any suggestions??? Would the get grey disc be a worthwhile investment to verify if this is correct?


Set color and tint through AVIA as best as possible, take readings using 75% and do it at 100% and see what comes up closer to the points in the CIE diagram

Here are the results with my panny 900u. Using the panny's color management function I was able to get all the color almost spot on except for cyan. No matter what changed it did not seem to move one way or the other. I am happy with the gray scale tracking and I don't trust the gamma number as I can not get a reading below 30 so the number has to be wrong. The picture looks fantastic now, much better than just trying to set the gray scale with the meter and spreadsheet alone. Thanks guys for writing this software.

Nice Job Jeff -

Cyan is not that off..and you did a fantastic job, I wish I could hit the numbers you do at 100IRE, I can never get close, always too blue and I think that is the nature of the bulb, as I recall, the review on the Mits, also talked about having great greyscale until 100IRE shooting up over 7000K..but I can live with having 10IRE -90IRE in good shape..

Yeah, great job. Only thing that you might want to tweak a bit is the Gamma curve. It's a little high(clipping) from 50IRE to 90IRE. Might want to play with contrast a bit.

Yeah, great job. Only thing that you might want to tweak a bit is the Gamma curve. It's a little high(clipping) from 50IRE to 90IRE. Might want to play with contrast a bit.

I tried but with this porjector when you move contrast just a little the numbers change a lot. I had to play with the gamma high and mid along with the contrast to get to where it is. Otherwise 90 and 100 go way out of whack.

Gotcha! If image still looks great, then congrats...You're done! For now that is... :cool: :D !

I would be concern if something is WAYOFF but if your close you shouldnt even bother - rarely are any calibration perfect - and the diff you showing and someone even getting it closer will be nominal and probably not even noticeable, unless they tighten up 20IRE and down...

Enjoy watching some movies..Yesterday I was watching Devil in Prada (yes, with the wife) and I think I didnt even think about what I needed to do - I got to involved watching it that it actually was so enjoyable.>IM DONE calibrating (for now..hahahah). I have a friend with a Mits CRT HD that Im going to take care of..just to actually see a LEAPS and bound result

I think your are right, I just finished watching the first half of Broken Trail and not once did I look at a scene and see something that I thought was off. Whoo hoo. :D

Yeah, stay put Jeff - dont be like me with FINAL PASS "10" zip files

any recomendations on how I can get the g color match the cie diagram

jayzfelon-

The only way to correct that is if your display has controls to do that. Digital displays suffer from oversaturated colors, specially green and a lot of times uncorrectable. Like I posted b4 don't stress yourself trying to get it where it's suppose to be, many times you can't do anything about it. The only thing you could do is bring Color down to compensate for the oversaturation. Only thing is that when you adjust color/tint with blue filter, color setting will be incorrect, but that's the only thing you'll be able to do.

Also make sure to calibrate Gamma(very important), even b4 doing greyscale because it has an effect on it. Post your setting in HCFR, to make sure you have them right. Also, DVD player and connection.

jayzfelon-

The only way to correct that is if your display has controls to do that. Digital displays suffer from oversaturated colors, specially green and a lot of times uncorrectable. Like I posted b4 don't stress yourself trying to get it where it's suppose to be, many times you can't do anything about it. The only thing you could do is bring Color down to compensate for the oversaturation. Only thing is that when you adjust color/tint with blue filter, color setting will be incorrect, but that's the only thing you'll be able to do.

Also make sure to calibrate Gamma(very important), even b4 doing greyscale because it has an effect on it. Post your setting in HCFR, to make sure you have them right. Also, DVD player and connection.


hdholic, sorry for being stupid but how do you calibrate gama on hcfr? I also have a panasonic s52 upconvert dvd player set on 1080i upconversion connected via hdmi, which settings should i use for hcfr

What color space are you using on the DVD player? Your display should have Gamma controls to calibrate it.

What color space are you using on the DVD player? Your display should have Gamma controls to calibrate it.

I am using rgb and I have ycbcr 4.4.4 and 4.2.2 option as well. My display also has a gamma control from 0 to 3 but switching to option 2 makes it green,currently it's on 3 I have an lg 60pc1d 60inch plasma.

I looked at your file and it looks like HDTV reference fits better. Have you tried the other 2 settings? For Gamma set it to Standard in HCFR and adjust your gamma setting to match the yellow curve to the white reference curve.

no I have not but will give it a try. thanks for your help hdholic.

I just posted an extensive HowTo http://geekwithfamily.com/2006/12/16/home-theater/howto-hcfr-free-video-projector-calibration-software/ on how I calibrated my Sanyo PLV-Z3 projector with HCFR and Spyder2 colorimeter.

Thanks for all the tips in this thread. If you guys like the How to I can add it to the thread too.

My calibration experiences before HCFR were long and painful. I was using a system of EyeOne Pro, BabelColor (to get xyY readings) and entering them into radar's Excel table. Somehow my gamma was way off with this method.

With HCFR I easily achieved a 2.2 gamma and the flattest grayscale ever.

Find attached my measures (grayscale only, I didn't bother with primaries and secondary colors because I'm using HDMI and the options are grayed out), I have some problems at the top and bottom of the grayscale that I hope to address later (the Sanyo starts in Powerful and uses a red filter as suggested in the projector's tweak thread).

Hi to all,

first, my congratulations to HCFR stuff developers, GREAT JOB.

I saw that the ICC profile export function is grayed out and i was wondering if exist a way to obtain a monitor profile with external utility.

Can someone help me ?

Thanks in advance.

I just posted an extensive HowTo http://geekwithfamily.com/2006/12/16/home-theater/howto-hcfr-free-video-projector-calibration-software/ on how I calibrated my Sanyo PLV-Z3 projector with HCFR and Spyder2 colorimeter.

Thanks for all the tips in this thread. If you guys like the How to I can add it to the thread too.

My calibration experiences before HCFR were long and painful. I was using a system of EyeOne Pro, BabelColor (to get xyY readings) and entering them into radar's Excel table. Somehow my gamma was way off with this method.

With HCFR I easily achieved a 2.2 gamma and the flattest grayscale ever.

Find attached my measures (grayscale only, I didn't bother with primaries and secondary colors because I'm using HDMI and the options are grayed out), I have some problems at the top and bottom of the grayscale that I hope to address later (the Sanyo starts in Powerful and uses a red filter as suggested in the projector's tweak thread).


Hey Kyle, Im in Joliet, use to live in Aurora at one time...

I know you said you didnt have color and tint available through HDMI, does your dvd player give you that option?? If so, then try setting that 1st before doing your greyscale runs..

In addition, instead (I think you mentioned this) try taking your measurement OFF the screen as oppose facing the projector, you want to take into account your screen or at least try to take a diff measurement off it and compare.

If you want to tighten up the bottom, let me know, as I have a DTP-94 that reads lower..

Wow, what a difference in getting my colors for my monitor set correctly. At least I think, I have them set properly. :confused:

Rich

I've tried to take readings with the S2 off the screen before but only get errors below 30%, so I'm stuck facing the projector. I own an Optoma Graywolf 1.8 gain screen. I wonder if I could take a reflective measurement off it with my Eye One Pro and then look up how to calculate screen offset.

I am interested in getting a DTP-94. My projector has a very curvy blue gun (or LCD panel): too much on the bottom and not enough on top.

My DVD player (Panansonic S97) lets you choose between RGB and YCbCr color for HDMI and it has color saturation control (but no tint). I've made adjustments on previous cals to get it as close to the 709 matrix as possible. I'll look at it tonight before I readjust my gamma.

I've attached my "before" reading from my last calibration using an Eye One Pro, Babelcolor, and radar's excel sheet. I guess the 1.89 gamma in this measure may be closer to 2.2 in reality. Plus my red is slightly down, which I remember others mentioning as a bug (that is more correct in CalMan).

Hooray for locals!

Nuts. I thought it looked a little dark. I saw your post about the "from standard" setting, but didn't get it at the time.
Take a look at the files I posted and compare gamma results. I just copied the HCFR information in the other program. Results are for Before and HCFR calibration.
So what gamma number am I looking for? From my older manual/radar excel/eye one pro cal HCFR read a gamma of 1.89. I still have the before chc so I'll change to from standard and see how close I am. Is the difference .3? If so I guess my old gamma was perfect.

Thanks for the personal help. I'll post my before chc on the forum so you can look at that.
At this point it's best to ingore #'s, just set gamma to standard, and match reference curve. BTW, as you will see, Greyscale calibration is accurate, no problems here.

thanks to hdholic adjusted the gamma and was able to get straight line from 0 to 100 ire but my luminance still not perfect any recommendations?

Check your contrast level, bring it down and chech gamma again. Does your set has gamma controls in service menu?

Rich

I've tried to take readings with the S2 off the screen before but only get errors below 30%, so I'm stuck facing the projector. I own an Optoma Graywolf 1.8 gain screen. I wonder if I could take a reflective measurement off it with my Eye One Pro and then look up how to calculate screen offset.

I am interested in getting a DTP-94. My projector has a very curvy blue gun (or LCD panel): too much on the bottom and not enough on top.

My DVD player (Panansonic S97) lets you choose between RGB and YCbCr color for HDMI and it has color saturation control (but no tint). I've made adjustments on previous cals to get it as close to the 709 matrix as possible. I'll look at it tonight before I readjust my gamma.

I've attached my "before" reading from my last calibration using an Eye One Pro, Babelcolor, and radar's excel sheet. I guess the 1.89 gamma in this measure may be closer to 2.2 in reality. Plus my red is slightly down, which I remember others mentioning as a bug (that is more correct in CalMan).

Hooray for locals!


Kyle -

Let me know if you want to get together and use the DTP-94..

Any help here would be appreicative.

Here goes my issue. This is the first time I will be using this type of Software Calibration. I have gone ahead and used it and set my monitor settings. Yet, I keep on second guessing my self.

Unfortunately I don't have any type of external sensor to use, so I must use the simulated senor to get my results.

Basically, what I am asking is there some sort of instruction manual or guidance FAQ that I can use to understand how to properly adjust my settings. I believe I have very good results currently, but I want to sure about my settings.

I am using a Dell/Sony Trintron monitor, unfortunately I don't have any type of color settings on the monitor itself so I must use the Software Color settings.

Thanks.

If any more info is required on my part or if any part of my post is confusing, I will gladly offer clarification.

Can't do anything with simulated sensor. You NEED a probe. Cheapest one to get started is Spyder2.

Can't do anything with simulated sensor. You NEED a probe. Cheapest one to get started is Spyder2.

Okay then, I was intending to get one of those when I purchase a new PC monitor regardless.

I am having a rather interesting debate about Calibration on the thread about the 24 inch Gateway monitor.

Go to Costo..cheapest..$59.99 or something like that..

For those who were not sure about Oppo 971 if they used 601 or the 709 color space.

Someone inquired about it and this was the response found:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8097391&&#post8097391

btw..I ran both 601 and 709- and doing 11th calibration...

Although I can see where the perception is that 709 it is, I hit every point of the color gamut with 601



For those with the Beta Version...I was able to elimate my bluish tinge at 100% white previously and running continuos...I was able to hit the flattest response and a gamma curve that looks pretty good..no more RED clipping whatsoever..

Thanks RichL

To summarise....i need
1. Spyder2 attached to my plasma screen on one end
2. Spyder2 connected to my laptop thru USB port (i assume) on other end
3. HFCR running on my laptop
4. What displays the patterns on the plasma TV? Do i use a DVD player ? Where are the patterns?

thanks
caymann

One thing I forgot to ask about was which grey patterns should one use for a projector? The small windows or the full screen ones? and why?

I Think my spyder meter went kaput. I droped it, it did not fall far but I went to recheck my measurements and see if I might be able to get a better gamma, and the readings are way off what I calibrated the other day. It is showing green way to high, so high you could tell if it was that high by sight. I can't believe the thing would be that sensitive. It only fell about 18 inches glanced off my center channel and landed on carpet. Anyone have a link to another meter that I can purchase to work with this software? :(

Jeff -

COSTO has them for 59.99 spyder2express..too bad because I sold my Spyder2 last week for less than that..

Thanks, but I don't have a costco membership or one very near me. What about another meter? a better one.

Thanks RichL

To summarise....i need
1. Spyder2 attached to my plasma screen on one end
2. Spyder2 connected to my laptop thru USB port (i assume) on other end
3. HFCR running on my laptop
4. What displays the patterns on the plasma TV? Do i use a DVD player ? Where are the patterns?

thanks
caymann

1. - YES
2. YES
- Select LCD mode and increase the read time from its default)
3. YES
4. If you have a DVD player connected to your Plasma - then YES - it will be a DVD player..

AVIA /DVD/Getgray -any of these disk will do for patterns. IF your DVD player allows you to play PAL region disk, then Id suggest downloading the HCFR pattern disk (go to page 1 for the original download file- there is a updated version of it, pages later that I linked). All you will ever need is in this disk.

Thanks, but I don't have a costco membership or one very near me. What about another meter? a better one.

Jeff-

GET THE DTP-94 (solid build and no baffle on or off - super quick read - mine reads 10IRE)...try NormanCamera - its for $129..these are getting harder to get..DO IT before they go unaffordable for most of us - of what I hear...

One thing I forgot to ask about was which grey patterns should one use for a projector? The small windows or the full screen ones? and why?


Jeff - for CRT projectors (rear Proj) - Ive always read WINDOW patterns - why is a good question - sorry I can not answer that but I had my CRT before calibrated and the small windows where used and this guy is a TOP calibator who is retired now..I trust that this is correct. I think its because of the way the CRTS are placed..one side will favor RED the othe side will favor Blue, so you eliminate that by shutting that part out and CENTER where all three converge

For FrontProj - there is minimal (real Min) diff between using FULL or WINDOW..I use FULL, someone else may differ..Once again this is what I read...You may want to even do a FULL and a WINDOW run to see any diff..

Thanks, I did not have that much difference between full screen and the windows, a little.

I did a search, I can't find that meter anywhere. Not at BH not at norman. Anyone have a link?

www.normancamera.com

$129.99..the cheapest and get it before ITS GONE..

search for the OPTIX XR (put it in exactly like this) this is the DTP-94 probe

http://www.normancamera.com/product-exec/product_id/12742/nm/MONACO_OPTIX_XR

Sweet, thanks. I have never ordered from this company before. Are they reputable like B&H?

Yes, tons of people here have ordered this...
I got mine from Adorama Camera, but I have read several times people, even in this forum (posting) that this is a place to get it now. Adorama sold out on all of them..$108 shipped..I think I got the last one

www.normancamera.com

$129.99..the cheapest and get it before ITS GONE..

search for the OPTIX XR (put it in exactly like this) this is the DTP-94 probe

http://www.normancamera.com/product-exec/product_id/12742/nm/MONACO_OPTIX_XR


Norman Camera also sells these on eBay. So if you have the time to wait for an auction to close you should be able to get it for $109.95 + $8 shipping. I grabbed one a couple of days ago.

you use the windowed patterns because full screen, on some displays, will produce spurious clipping effects.

jeff

Here are some JPEGs..of my results..hope you can see them okay..

you use the windowed patterns because full screen, on some displays, will produce spurious clipping effects.

jeff

I kinda thought that, that might explain my gamma numbers. Well looks like I will have to order that meter and calibrate it again. Although, it looks pretty darn good now.

Here are some JPEGs..of my results..hope you can see them okay..

Sweet, how do use that meter? does it have a mounting bracket for a tripod? or did you just rig something up? I assume you face toward the screen like the spyder meter.

No, and do not bother gluing a nut onto it (like what you can do with the spyder2), because the back is curved, so what I used is velcro on the tripod and wrap it around the sensor..it works, but its a pain when I do it..If I take off the screw on the tripod,Im sure it will work better, but Im not sure if I want to.

Gotcha, velcro, the wonder material lol :) I just placed an order, should be here tuesday. :D

I noticed that there were display profiles in the software for this meter. What are those for exactly?

Jeff-

you are going to LOVE the DTP-94, the spyder2 is respectable for the price, but once you use the DTP-94..You'll never have a reason to use the spyder2..In fact, I sold mine the same day I got mine DTP-94

Jeff-

you are going to LOVE the DTP-94, the spyder2 is respectable for the price, but once you use the DTP-94..You'll never have a reason to use the spyder2..In fact, I sold mine the same day I got mine DTP-94

Sounds good, is it just way more accurate I assume and faster.

I should have asked if somebody wanted to trade for these http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/audioengine-A5p1.php I still have them from the review and I have no place for them.

absolutely.more accurate, even down to 10IRE and as you can see in my JPEGS, it even read on mine a respectable 0IRE at .313 .313 was my x,y value

First try with this proggy and Spyder on new 60xbr2. Would someone please check it out and let me know what you think. I already have learned so much here spending hours reading. Thanks to all in advance.

Good job on your initial pass. You can still tighten up the grayscale a bit more. About you gamma, if your target calibration gamma is "2.2" set it to Standard. If target gamma is 2.5 which w/ your display type I doubt, then select 2.2. If display offers color decoder controls, you could tweak the CIE chart. The fun continues:)...

First try with this proggy and Spyder on new 60xbr2. Would someone please check it out and let me know what you think. I already have learned so much here spending hours reading. Thanks to all in advance.

Sonys are known to have some of the most accurate color decoders, so I think you need to correct this, possibly in the service menu..there are color matrixes in some of them that allows you to change the parameters to fall in place, some other sonys have more advance features.

Also make sure you select 16-235 in the Pref/ref tab, check to see if your colorspace is NTSC or HDTV. I would start with NTSC..

Good job on the 1st pass through...and as HDholic states -THE FUN CONTINUES..

Remember, do not worry about 6500K, what you want is to get as many of your IRES hitting the D65 point. Go to your 50IRE (higlight the column) and Hit your DISPLAY MEASUREMENT INFORMATION icon and look at the top and it will state your DELTA E is 3 - that is really good, but as you go down, they go higher and higher, what you want is to get as many of those hitting Delta E (D65) between 0-3...the closer you get those , the more accurate you will be..

1st set your color/tint as close as possible to the CIE points(running your primaries and secondaries)
2nd set your contrast and brightness (go back to these since your greyscale adjustment affect these)
3rd run continuous for 100IRE until you get that close, then check 30IRE..then do a full run of it..The reason I state 30 is because with the spyder it struggles a bit with 20IRE, but use your own judgement and try 20IRE, it might work since its a directview LCD if I am correct.
- and as stated previously - make sure to recheck contrast and brightness.

lastly - make sure you write your initial settings, just in case things get out of whack you can revert back to those..

Jeff-

you are going to LOVE the DTP-94, the spyder2 is respectable for the price, but once you use the DTP-94..You'll never have a reason to use the spyder2..In fact, I sold mine the same day I got mine DTP-94

Richlo- can this DTP-94 be used for CRT front projection?

Richlo- can this DTP-94 be used for CRT front projection?


OH YEAH..I used it on Mits 55807 CRT..

THe other great thing about the DTP - NO BAFFLE issues

ALthough on the DTP you will actually select CRT mode, for the Spyder2, you will select LCD mode with the Baffle on..

Rich, See what this one looks like.

HeY C-

Looking even better...very good indeed, I bet with a better sensor, you will show better results..

As of right now, I will write down your settings in your note sections..You seem to have the Highend of the IRE is very good shape and even part of the lowend in goodshape...I dont think your gamma is so bad - and it may actually be fine - the issue could be that the spyder is not that great at reading the 20IRE and down thus your gamma may be off. You should have some gamma parameters available though , one click will probably do the trick..Make sure to just do NOW your contrast and brightness touch up if you havent.

Once again your CIE diagram tells me that you have a bad color decoder ( I hope I am using the right word), and I know for certain that Sonys strong points have been that they have excellent color decoders, but that is one area I would certainly want to work on next. Have you ever gone in your Sony service menu?

Excellent work - Sonys usually track real good in greyscales.

I was up til 2 am last night and feel like I made a little progress. I changed the reference gamma to standard and adjusted everything to compensate and match the curve as close as I can. I have work on my offsets/cuts as the gamma is a little low from 0-30. Though from Rich's comments this may just have to do with poor dark measurements from the S2. I'll have to try a DTP-94.

I've also decided that I'm going to favor the top end of the grayscale while sacrificing the bottom. Last night I got the delta E's of 90-100 lower than ever (5 and 7 respectively, without any sacrifice, 100 used to be in the teens) and the resulting picture benefited (no more green flesh highlights (this is subtle, of course, but it bugs me). I think I remember reading that our eyes are way more sensative to white color casts versus black casts.

Rich- thanks for the 94 offer, but we have a new baby in the house so visitors can't be accomodated. I'll pick one up and add it to my arsenal. I do have an old DTP-92.

Sweet, thanks. I have never ordered from this company before. Are they reputable like B&H?


I bought one from Norman last week, it arrived in two days with their standard ground shipping. But that's probably also because it only had to travel about 160 miles or so to get to me.

No prob Kyle...

I cant recall which set your calibrating, but for a DLP (and it could be for everything else too), it is best to calibrate from 100IRE 1st and then work your way down..I had a problem where everything for 30 -90 was okay but 100IRE skyrocketed, so I decided (thanks to KRAS) to do 100IRE 1st and I nailed that and unbelievably the rest of it, starting to fall easily in its place..Red usually runs out on the bright side of the IRE, so its better to cut blues and greens because of this..

as far as sacrificing, i think the rule is the otherway around, sacrifce the highend for a good lowend/midend (i hope your right and Im wrong on this)...in any case, you are seeing progress, and it looks like your damn close with the Delata E. I will live with your results for a little and then when you can think of other things..just make sure to save those settings that got you the results you are now.

Sometimes when you get as close as you do, I change one cut or drive to see how it effects the rest of it, I notice that on my set, when I use CUT BLUES it effect alot the whole IRE level - when Im close

I bought one from Norman last week, it arrived in two days with their standard ground shipping. But that's probably also because it only had to travel about 160 miles or so to get to me.

with HCFR in place, I wonder how long this is going to be, for the price, you cant beat it - plus they are getting phase out...I think HCFR will either have to work with some offsets for the spyder or add the EyeOne to the list of probes..Unless someone could build the HCFR probe and sell them - which is something Id love to get..

btw..anyone looking to get the DTP-94, get it on ebay..It looks like you can get them even cheaper through NormanCamera on ebay than their own site..

I think HCFR will either have to work with some offsets for the spyder or add the EyeOne to the list of probes...
Will do both...

Upcoming v1.2 (later this week) includes Getag EyeOne (Spectro. and Display) full support...

As for Offset, we may add it (not in v1.2) if you really want it, but later today (or tomorrow) I will give an update on the Gamma and offset discussions we had few days ago... Hopefully you'll then understand why we think our approach is the good one.

--Patrice

...they are getting phase out...I think HCFR will either have to work with some offsets for the spyder or add the EyeOne to the list of probes.
If they add Display2 support(which seems to happen), we shouldn't worry too much. On another site, they're comparing all popular probes and with early tests, Display2 has worked better than DTP-94.

I bought one from Norman last week, it arrived in two days with their standard ground shipping. But that's probably also because it only had to travel about 160 miles or so to get to me.

Thanks, I am in NH so I just had it sent out overnight. I hope it gets here tomorow.

update, just got an email that it shipped. Cool!!!

I changed the reference gamma to standard and adjusted everything to compensate and match the curve as close as I can. I have work on my offsets/cuts as the gamma is a little low from 0-30. Though from Rich's comments this may just have to do with poor dark measurements from the S2. I'll have to try a DTP-94.

Just to throw in my 2 cents. The poor low ire readings from the Spyder result in low gamma readings on both my Z4 & my Hitachi CRT RPTV. Boosting gamma on my Sanyo Z4 I can perfectly match a 2.2 gamma curve (with the Spyder's too low readings), but the picture stinks.

With the Spyder probe I'd suggest concentrating on a smooth gamma response that follows the shape of the reference curve, and not necessarily hitting the line itself.

Patrice, I see in the HCFR forum that you can register for the next group buy of probes. I can't read French, but Google tries to translate for me. :) Would it be possible to participate from the U.S. and have it shipped here? Do you have any idea what the shipping would be? Thanks.

Steve

Hi Steve,

You can participate... I have no idea of shipping but would assume about 15$ as it is pretty small, almost weightless thing...

I didn't manage this but will pass request so they can give some shipping costs figures. (the 50 €uro probe price includes shipping for France)

--Patrice

If they add Display2 support(which seems to happen), we shouldn't worry too much. On another site, they're comparing all popular probes and with early tests, Display2 has worked better than DTP-94.

what site if you please?

jeff

what site if you please?

jeff

DITTO

Patrice,

Any plans to do a Mac OS X version or port of the software? Should be easier now with OS X running on intel chips.

what site if you please?
Funny that you posted in the very forum :)

Testing is far from over but full results will follow. But they give small comment.
Check here (http://www.datapopuli.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=297&highlight) .

Rich,

How do you set up this new meter I have coming with a front projector? Same as with the spyder? Up close to the screen and pointing up a bit toward the center?

Exactly..just that you wont probably be able to glue a nut on it for tripod, I use velcro, the back is curved that I couldnt superglue it, I'll try to see if I can again

Patrice,

Any plans to do a Mac OS X version or port of the software? Should be easier now with OS X running on intel chips.
Well, it is then easy to bootcamp or parallel to XP :D

With many years in NeXT (and OpenSTEP) camp I have the feeling it may be an interesting chalenge, but so far we have other priorities...

Upcoming 1.2 improve things quite a lot (English & German Help, Gretag support, new features...) and next year should start pretty well with a another well featured 1.3... ;) Many things to do before trying a MacOS port.

Unless, of course, if someone with good knowledge of both VC++ (MFCs) and MacOS X tools can help :D

--Patrice

I'm trying to... but first phase is to pass it from French to English ;)

--Patrice

Well, it is then easy to bootcamp or parallel to XP :D

With many years in NeXT (and OpenSTEP) camp I have the feeling it may be an interesting chalenge, but so far we have other priorities...

Upcoming 1.2 improve things quite a lot (English & German Help, Gretag support, new features...) and next year should start pretty well with a another well featured 1.3... ;) Many things to do before trying a MacOS port.

Unless, of course, if someone with good knowledge of both VC++ (MFCs) and MacOS X tools can help :D

--Patrice

I would be happy to if I could, however, a progammer I am not. Thanks for the info though. :) Your right though Parallels or bootcamp works just fine for now.

Hello, here is a summary of our thoughts and feeling on the Gamma discussions HDHolic and others highlight few pages ago (seems I cannot find post ref)…


We initially thought the problem (gamma being different depending on software) was related to NTSC patterns/grey scale. In PAL (or HD), black is 16 (0 IRE in old analog times), white being 235 (100 IRE in ancient age); The values being equally spread across those boundaries. In NTSC, it is the same except black is 7.5 IRE (54 mV in analog) but still 16 in scale. 50 % grey is 110, this 54 IRE in NTSC and 50 IRE in PAL, but it is still 50% Grey.

So right, our scale (in IRE) is misleading in NTSC, as said by someone above we should use rather use %. But patterns and math are corrects anyway… (see below)

The PAL (or HD) scale equally spread all across, allow a bit more precise measurement but we know it could be difficult to admit… (This is highlighted in the HD72 sheet below)
BTW, "GetGray" is perfectly fine in combination with ColorHCFR.


Anyway all this was a no go on “ how the hell this Gamma could be different… “ (I won’t do the math here, trust me). That is easy to understand as the curves were identical but not the gamma result.

Then one of our experts spot the « offset » as being the likelihood of this different results. It was clear it was use in the gamma math in combination with a linear segment at beginning.

First, one of our favourite reference document: http://www.babelcolor.com/download/A%20review%20of%20RGB%20color%20spaces.pdf

We are pretty sure many use the formula 11 (page 18).
Below is an Excel spreadsheet with maths as done by other soft wares (using offset) and ours (without offset). http://www.homecinema-fr.com/Colorimetre/images_forum/Mlill/rdcolorhcfr/ColorHCFR-Gamma.xls

As you can see in first sheet the 2.26 value is there and our formula gives 1.93… Obviously if we want to take offset in account the target Gamma cannot be 2.22 (rather something around 2.45 or 2.5)

The third sheet is a test run on Optoma HD72 projector using Gretag EyeOne probe, it includes measures from :
- Colorfacts + DVD HCFR
- HCFR + DVD HCFR
- HCFR + Avia

As we expect, Colorfacts give same results as our software (with black compensation)

We are convinced we must pursue as we currently do.

It is interesting to mention that what we think being an error (use offset in Gamma) is pretty common. Some other software do use offsets. Also the (low) factory gamma setting on some projectors are probably related to this. (Some may remember old JVC settings)

Depending on people, the 2.22 « norm » is (unfortunately) often interpreted differently.
As a king of confirmation, Monaco Optix do not use them when generating ICC profiles ; Respected Greg Rogers does compute Gamma as we do; Colorfacts also does the same and finally other ISF guys confirm this.

Now it will be a bit hard to explain why offset shouldn’t be use in Gamma math… :D

The offset is equivalent, at encoding stage, to the black compensation at output. In both cases the Gamma curve passes the y axe above 0, this zero being either the offset or black level of projector.

Another reference document that raise this point and offset « problem » in “gamma and the desired CRT gamma et camera gamma” http://www.w3.org/Graphics/Color/sRGB

The offset was introduced to manage the low limits of recordings equipments; it is different depending of the norm (0.099 in SMPTE-C, 0.055 en sRGB …)

As image output devices (projectors) didn’t have any (thanks CRTs ;)) it obviously wasn’t use at output stage…
With digital projectors it is another story, the most logical – and what works best – is to use the « projector offset » (its black level), hence the fact we use black compensation. Try out our near black gamma measures, you will then definitely get it and understand why it must be done that way.

We think the correct math is always the one with black compensation without offset. As said that is what Colorfacts does and it is also true by simply looking at picture, 1.9 Gamma gives a bright picture. sRGB (Digital Pictures) use a 2.45 Gamma with a low offset (0.055) to be able to reach 2.22 when displayed.

It is hard to find a clear article on this subject, the Danny Pascale one (link above) is one of the rare speaking in depth of that subject.

So then, what we do ? Do we take this (offset) in account? Add a specific entry/choice to use it or not ?

Calibrations (at least Gamma) « Best practices » are probably a whole debate in themselves and out of the very scope of this thread… Well, may be not…

The good point of our software being that it is open and we can use the method that best suit (as we think) or test some different approaches…


BUT, most users are looking for some expertise and « ready to go » options, adding many options may well confuse most… and give the feeling all that thing is over complicated… It is not our goal…

In the very case of Gamma formula we have three options to manage :
- Chose either PAL (HD) or NTSC patterns (we must add this)
- Black compensation (already there, by default)
- Use offset (At least for those that want it or as a pedagogic approach)

This ends in height possible combinations… !

Having in mind we have no doubt on our chosen “best practice” (PAL (or HD) pattern, Black compensation, no Offset)

So far, 1.12 use this, upcoming 1.2 does the same… We don’t know for future, but I assume this will be discussed… isn’t it ? :D

Hope it helps making this a bit clearer…

--ColorHCFR Team ;)

Wow, what a post!
So is an offset option being added in 1.12? Using 2.2 w/ no offset gives me a "dark" image.

I told you it was hard to put this in almost correct english ;)

v1.2 won't have offset option (as explained above)...

Now need to understand your "dark" image/readings... Can you post your .chc ? what pattern do you use ?

--Patrice

Now need to understand your "dark" image/readings... Can you post your .chc ? what pattern do you use ?
Here are the HCFR readings. Runs 2/3, I didn't perform grayscale calib. just gamma.
Run1= Reference, GetGrey window pattens, Standard
Run2= GetGrey window patterns, 2.2
Run3= HCFR Pal DVD full field patterns, 2.2

Thanks HDholic, will look at this...

Without even opening it, your run1 & 2 must be identical (bar measure discrepancy) as there is no point in doing the measures with only changing the reference Gamma from Std to 2.2... As explained this only change the gamma log display, not measures or anything else...

--Patrice

couldn't open your files HD. it kept crashing the machine.

Thanks HDholic, will look at this...

Without even opening it, your run1 & 2 must be identical (bar measure discrepancy) as there is no point in doing the measures with only changing the reference Gamma from Std to 2.2... As explained this only change the gamma log display, not measures or anything else...

--Patrice
I understand perfectly what you mean, however I DID calibrate run 2 to match HCFR reference curve @ 2.2 to show why calibrating to that reference resulted in darker, no black detail images :) .

noizemaker-
I have a different version.

oh ok HD. thought it was my pc!!!

couldn't open your files HD. it kept crashing the machine.

might be a beta version..that you do not have access to yet

Can someone zip up the DLL file for the DTP-94 meter and post it or email it to me. I am getting windows errors trying to install the software. Thanks!

Can someone zip up the DLL file for the DTP-94 meter and post it or email it to me. I am getting windows errors trying to install the software. Thanks!
here it is

Rich,

Thanks I was pulling my hair out. I did finaly manage to get it installed. Stinking windoze XP junk, I had to run a registry repair utility so that installshield would run. Go figure, it is a brand new install up to date with nothing installed on it. Thats why I use a OS X as my primary OS.

You were right this meter rocks, will post a file in a bit.

hi gang, just settling in using this software and the spyder probe on a plasma tv.
previously tried using spydertv not much good there. used spyder probe in support mode to carry over the data into this software.results are not the same . used this software with the spyder probe and getgray dvd for reference. calibrate mode LCD read time 400 ms. standard NTSC gamma 2.2 and RGB 16-235. now i got my grayscale to a flat line delta E under 4 from ten on up gamma is 2.25. picture doesn't look right not sure why color is off. maybe someone with much more expertise could explain to me what did i do wrong? any help would be greatly appreciated. thank all of you for this great software keep up the great work!

Nothing actually looks wrong with your file...what leaves me to believe that either your sensor is not reading appropriately or your color decoder is way off. btw...excellent work..

1st thing I would do is eye the lower IRE's, see if you see color in them, especially a redish tint, if so then it would be your spyder..If by eye it looks pretty grey then your next step is to see your check your color decoder, it may be that its way off (what looks like in your CIE diagram)..You may want to read up more on your set to see if their are color decoder adjustments to it...

What exactly doesn't look right about your picture? The only thing i see from your measurements is a bit of oversaturated green. Try to explain what doesn't look good in your color.

Carmine.

Here it is with the new meter and a few shots as well. Hard to do screen shots but I used a 50% grey screen as a custom white balance and shot in raw at 800 iso.

Couple more shots.

Jeff -

Real good CIE (im impressed), on it...you colors should look really good on this machine - screenshots look like I am correct..I think with some playing around a little, you can tighten up the lower end of the IRE, try readjusting contrast brightness(if needed)...sometimes that flattens the greyscale...

btw..what are you calibrating here

btw..what are you calibrating here

Panny AE900U on a Carada BW 106in screen. I will play some more and see if I can tighten up the lowend. On this projector you make one little change with contrast or brightness or with cuts and drives and the whole thing goes out of whack. Very tricky to get it dialed in. Or I just don't know what the heck I am doing. That could be too. in addition to cuts and drives for RGB, the panny has a feature that lets you adjust any color's saturation, hue and brightness and you can store 8 points. Thats how I tweaked the CIE.

hi gang, just settling in using this software and the spyder probe on a plasma tv.
previously tried using spydertv not much good there. used spyder probe in support mode to carry over the data into this software.results are not the same . used this software with the spyder probe and getgray dvd for reference. calibrate mode LCD read time 400 ms. standard NTSC gamma 2.2 and RGB 16-235. now i got my grayscale to a flat line delta E under 4 from ten on up gamma is 2.25. picture doesn't look right not sure why color is off. maybe someone with much more expertise could explain to me what did i do wrong?
As already stated, nothing looks wrong in the file, unless a bad probe. Green oversaturation won't cause bad color, just causes green objects (grass, trees, etc.) on screen to look a bit hyped. Make sure you have the filter on. I'd also suggest selecting "Standard" gamma or you may loose black detail.

Panny AE900U on a Carada BW 106in screen. I will play some more and see if I can tighten up the lowend. On this projector you make one little change with contrast or brightness or with cuts and drives and the whole thing goes out of whack. Very tricky to get it dialed in. Or I just don't know what the heck I am doing. That could be too. in addition to cuts and drives for RGB, the panny has a feature that lets you adjust any color's saturation, hue and brightness and you can store 8 points. Thats how I tweaked the CIE.

Tweaking the CIE chart as you did, using Panny color management, with a probe as Spyder is not always a good idea. Even if CIE chart looks fine, it can lead to color strange behaviour.
I do not have exact explanation for it, but it seems to be linked to probe precision in primary colors measures.
Some people tried to do such tunning on sanyo z4 by our side and turned back to initial color management as picture colors were not correct (especially green).

Tweaking the CIE chart as you did, using Panny color management, with a probe as Spyder is not always a good idea. Even if CIE chart looks fine, it can lead to color strange behaviour.
I do not have exact explanation for it, but it seems to be linked to probe precision in primary colors measures.
Some people tried to do such tunning on sanyo z4 by our side and turned back to initial color management as picture colors were not correct (especially green).

I am not using the spyder anymore, but the Optix probe. DTP-94. I think your right about the spyder though because my settings were different with the more accurate probe.

Spudbuddy, by adjusting gamma on my Z4 I was able to get a gamma curve that pefectly matched the 2.2 reference, with a very flat greyscale. However, the image was bad, and a bit too green. I'm also using the spyder probe, and am convinced raising gamma to correct for the poor lower ire readings is the culprit.

Tweaking the CIE chart as you did, using Panny color management, with a probe as Spyder is not always a good idea. Even if CIE chart looks fine, it can lead to color strange behaviour.
I do not have exact explanation for it, but it seems to be linked to probe precision in primary colors measures.
Some people tried to do such tunning on sanyo z4 by our side and turned back to initial color management as picture colors were not correct (especially green).

Ki, can you elaborate a bit with the Z4? I have one and have managed to get a good greyscale and gamma result. However, the colors on the CIE chart are just goofy. The chart suggests blue is significantly over saturated while red and green are low. The chart also suggests tint needs to be set towards green -- clearly not correct.

I'm wondering if this is an issue with the AVIA disc I've been using to measure and adjust primaries, and will therefore give a try with the HCFR disc tonight. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

By the way, I've managed to get a very good calibration including the CIE chart on my Hitachi HD CRT RPTV, so I don't think it's user error, but I can't be sure. Thanks.

I spent most of yesterday performing my first calibration on an Hitachi RPTV. I got the gray scale nice and flat but the CIE color chart was off by a considerable amount. The main color adjust has minimal impact on the chart. The SM has color decoder settings. Is this where i should start? I am using Get Gray and the DTP-94 probe. I was also thinking, my DVD player is a older Sony (5 yrs), could it be causing color error?

Thanks
Rick

Rick, what model is your Hitachi? My 51F59 needed only standard color and tint adjustments to get great results on the CIE chart.

Rick, what model is your Hitachi? My 51F59 needed only standard color and tint adjustments to get great results on the CIE chart.


53swx01b Ultravision

Here's an idea...... What if someone where to calibrate using the optix XR prob and then once got it all right, read again with the spyder2 so we can all see how far off it is. Just an idea.

Here's an idea...... What if someone where to calibrate using the optix XR prob and then once got it all right, read again with the spyder2 so we can all see how far off it is. Just an idea.

Yes they will be different but that difference is only good for that display, bulb, ambient lighting, ambient temp, %stim, etc... To many variables to be useful as a generic offset with any accuracy. I do however train a S2 with a i1Pro and then use the S2 with the i1Pro offsets but only for that calibration session.

Believe me I have done the comparisons with many S2's, DTP94, Display2, i1Pro and a AEMC CA813.

Nate -
Several of us have already done this and posted..refer back some pages (sorry I do remember which page)..but they are there..

I calibrated a Mits CRT with they spyder and also read it with the DTP...the mid to highend were very similar but the lowend you will see the spyder and DTP giving diff results..which after calibrating with the DTP, I no longer had a Red lowend, as I did with the Spyder..someone else previously posted a similar result..

For the spyder, make sure to keep the baffle on, and select LCD for when using it on a CRT (non-direct view)

Rich,

I played with the contrast and brightness a little today. I smoothed out the bump I had at 80 ire and flattened out the grayscale and temp a bit, take a peek. With this projector changing contrast or brightness just a little has a drastic affect on the grayscale tracking. I don't think this projector can do anybetter than how I have now and I don't think I can expect it to for a $1500 projector. Overall I am very happy with this software and the new meter, thanks guys for you input and help with it.

Oh, what windows in getgray disk would I use to do the contrast ratio measure. I know you would use 0 and 100 but it also wants to go through ansi 1 and ansi 2 as well, what are they on the getgray disk?

Rich,

I played with the contrast and brightness a little today. I smoothed out the bump I had at 80 ire and flattened out the grayscale and temp a bit, take a peek. With this projector changing contrast or brightness just a little has a drastic affect on the grayscale tracking. I don't think this projector can do anybetter than how I have now and I don't think I can expect it to for a $1500 projector. Overall I am very happy with this software and the new meter, thanks guys for you input and help with it.

Oh, what windows in getgray disk would I use to do the contrast ratio measure. I know you would use 0 and 100 but it also wants to go through ansi 1 and ansi 2 as well, what are they on the getgray disk?

Thats interesting, I was under the impression contrast and brightness had very little affect on grayscale.

Rick

Rick -

On some displays its make a big diff..but constrast and brightness are always tweaked during the greyscale process, remember when adjusting for greyscale, you are adjusting RGB contrast and brighness (cuts and gains), so what you do to those effect to certain extent your USER cont/brightness..what it doesnt effect is actually COLOR/TINT

brightness has a very big effect on grayscale tracking and gamma on my crt rptv.
contrast on crt's generally, if set too high, will make them not track linearly. I turn it down (contrast) until you get linear tracking.
Best,
jeff

Jeff -

I do not use getgrey but what it is basically is a black and white checkerbox. Ansi 1 an ansi 2 are the same pattern in the HCFR Pal Disk..

Jeff -

I do not use getgrey but what it is basically is a black and white checkerbox. Ansi 1 an ansi 2 are the same pattern in the HCFR Pal Disk..

Get gray has the max black, max white, and the checker box pattern. Are ansi 1 and ansi 2 at different levels?

Jeff - not that I am aware of...but hopefully one of the experts here guide you..

well after looking over the comments here.best way i can describe the picture is sort of a greenish hue to the whole picture. now i know the green is way off on the cie chart it is turned down all the way. the grayscale i sure could be tighter if the wife would let me play some more she is getting tired of me doing this. i will try and take a couple of screen shots to compare my settings to a standard setting. can anyone tell me if i am using the right gamma curve at 2.2 or should i be using 2.5 i have looked allover for an answer to this and i get both answers to use so i am a little confused. one last thing that i noticed about doing this when taking reading at 20 for grayscale for some reason this is the fastest measurement taking less time then all others any ideas? also am i correct in increasing the read time to 400ms for the spyder probe? thanks guys this is by far the best place for this kind of stuff. only way the common people can get the answers that they need without all the hassel of trying to get someone on the phone in a tech support fashion.

With all the hype on the DTP-94 I just couldn't help myself.....just ordered one from Norman. :D

Will be back with my Spyder2 vs DTP-94 results after the holidays.

Waiting patiently for the update to HCFR to fix the 30IRE reading problem :)

You won't wait long ;)

v1.2 is confirmed later this week...

--Patrice

You won't wait long ;)

v1.2 is confirmed later this week...

--Patrice

this was only an issue with SPyder..correct??

Yes, and corrected in your beta ;)

--Patrice

hello, I am trying to find a jpeg that has a 10 steps grayscale pattern because if you have direct tv and own a hr20 you are able to view jpeg pictures from your computer using roxio media server. it is supposed to work with computers supporting ViiV feature only but I was able to view pictures from my computer thru my hr20 and it is not ViiV. my main goal is to calibrate it with hr20 receiver.

Now need to understand your "dark" image/readings... Can you post your .chc ? what pattern do you use ?

--Patrice
Any comments on the files or the issue?

I just tried to buy one off of ebay but it said they wouldn't sell it to me because I'm in Canada, interesting. SO I sent them a question asking why, wait and see I guess.

Hi All,

I’ve just started with this great program, but don’t seem to be getting off to a good start. I have done basic calibrations in the past and have also used the spyderTV Pro. My issue seems to be with setting colour and tint. If I were to calibrate colour and tint with getgray and a colour filter, I get a setting of -3 and +1 respectively. These numbers match well with what spyderTV pro determined. However, when I use HCFR Colorimeter with the HDTV reference, the CIE diagram indicates my primary colours are way over saturated. To dial it back in I lower colour and tint to -16 and -4. I move on to adjust my gray scale and I can get that to look very good. The problem is that these colour settings don’t look anywhere near right for viewing movies. The colour should be up in the -3 range. When I use the -3 setting with the calibrated gray scale the image looks good. What could be creating this issue? Or what am I missing? Anybody else with a Panasonic 900u projector getting low colour and tint settings?

Hi All,

I’ve just started with this great program, but don’t seem to be getting off to a good start. I have done basic calibrations in the past and have also used the spyderTV Pro. My issue seems to be with setting colour and tint. If I were to calibrate colour and tint with getgray and a colour filter, I get a setting of -3 and +1 respectively. These numbers match well with what spyderTV pro determined. However, when I use HCFR Colorimeter with the HDTV reference, the CIE diagram indicates my primary colours are way over saturated. To dial it back in I lower colour and tint to -16 and -4. I move on to adjust my gray scale and I can get that to look very good. The problem is that these colour settings don’t look anywhere near right for viewing movies. The colour should be up in the -3 range. When I use the -3 setting with the calibrated gray scale the image looks good. What could be creating this issue? Or what am I missing? Anybody else with a Panasonic 900u projector getting low colour and tint settings?

Which mode are you using? My panny 900 is at -5 0n the color and -1 on the tint in cinema 1 mode. With the dtp probe I was able to achieve a very good CIE chart on the panny using the color management functions.

I am in cinema 1 mode as well but never touched the colour management function. Did you start out with low colour and tint settings prior to using the colour management function?

I am in cinema 1 mode as well but never touched the colour management function. Did you start out with low colour and tint settings prior to using the colour management function?

No, they don't have that much impact on the color, they only let you tweak it some. With the color filters in AVIA or DVE I always ended up around -7 to -10. I suspect the issue is the spyder probe, I don't trust mine, that's why I bought the DTP94.

Probe -

You need to remember that the TVPro is just setting your color and tint as best as possible, that will not mean that your color decoder is correct, its just does the best it can..but as Jeff stated, the color management is where you get to REALLY dial all the primaries and secondaries..

With all the hype on the DTP-94 I just couldn't help myself.....just ordered one from Norman. :D
:)

I just tried to order one and they didn't have any more. :mad:

Does anyone have an alternative reasonably priced source?

You might try searching for a Pantone Display LT, I beleive it is equal to D2 hardware wise. and this prog will support it in next release. It's about the same $

Rew

You might try searching for a Pantone Display LT, I beleive it is equal to D2 hardware wise. and this prog will support it in next release. It's about the same $

Rew
Thanks! I have about 60 days before the new projector arrives. That should allow plenty of time for the new SW version to become available and tested with the Eye One.

Version 1.2 is up on the HCFR Web Site .

Scott.............

Just came across this thread! This programs looks great, will give it a shot!

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/ColorHCFR/index_en.php

here is the 1.2 link ugrade

just downloaded new version. while looking it over i noticed that when you goto preferences and the reference tab after you choose witch standard to use you have a choice of gamma reference you could choose either from standard or 2.2 . with the new version you can only choose 2.2 also changes are SD601 instead of NTSC601. now i know this is no big deal but what changed with gamma reference? i was just getting ready to redo last nights calibration using the from standard setting for grayscale now that choice is gone. so are you saying that all basic gamma settings are to be at 2.2? i must tell you that being fairly new to calibrations this software is by far the easiest to use and continues to evolve at a good pace THANK YOU!

I have a Mitsubishi LT37131 I am trying to adjust for proper levels. The only input I care about is my computer through the DVI, since I use it for everything (TV/DVR, movies, photos, web surfing, games)

I have a Spyder2express sensor.

I thought the display looked pretty good, but thought I would try to really dial it in. I made sure that the video card settings were as neutral as possible (at least that is what the software claims, Nvidia desktop). I had previously gotten the brightness and contrest well tuned. So those were pretty much left alone, but I reset the color controls on the TV to their middle settings. It has this menu called PerfectColor, for adjusting the saturation (I guess) of the primaries and secondaries. I ran a greyscale test. After doing that it said my blue was really high, running 150-168% from 40IRE to 95IRE. I tried making adjustments on the colors on the TV. But couldn't seem to get it to lower the blue according to what the meter said. I didn't see the color of the white change, however everything else that should have blue on my screen changed shades.

I changed to the continuous measurment, and put up a 80% grey image, and tried adjusting the brightness on the primaries, using the video card, to see if I could get the levels for red blue and green to match. When I got them to where the luminence of all three was reported to be almost the same, I found the display to have a yellowish cast and the desktop had awful colors.

I reset things, and took out my color filter from DVE and put up an image of the color bars (primaries secondaries and white). I adjusted the PerfectColor settings, and got very close in the color balances. I watched some videos, they seemed to have very vibrant colors, and the colors seemed to be accurate. So I ran a greyscale test again. It said that my blue was still much stronger than the red and green.

On the DVI input, I don't have a color or tint control, only this PerfectColor. If I display a ramp of the primary colors, it looks like it is affecting the middle levels more than the low and high. It may actually be making gamma corrections on the 6 colors.

I read this thread, but I don't believe I saw someone having quite this issue.

So, what have other people experienced? If you balance the colors out, does it make movies look beter at the expence of having a wierd looking desktop? Or does it sound like my sensor has issues?

spudbudy-

Yes, Standard is gone! Technically, 2.2 Gamma IS the correct spec. to calibrate to, unless using CRT(2.5 most of the time). However, most programs happen to use different calculation methods, sometimes with good results, sometimes not. IMO, I'm not certain as I have mentioned many times before, that HCFR gives good results at 2.2. Why do I say that? Well, my set was calibrated w/ a well known program that gave me GOOD black level and detail. Then I decided to try the 2.2 reference in HCFR for comparison. It gave me a dark image w/ all black detail gone. Some one else mentioned the same when calibrating a front projector.

Nuts. I thought it looked a little dark. I saw your post about the "from standard" setting, but didn't get it at the time.
I found that if you write in about 1.94, it gave me a reference curve similar to the "Standard" curve.

with the new version you can only choose 2.2!

actually you can change that to whatever you desire, remember that is just a PLOT, nothing more..Type in 2.5 and you get a 2.5 Reference..

when calibrating plasma which gamma reference should I use?

You are perspicacious :cool:
We put the new 1.2 release on line but made no announcement yet (it's night in France ;))

We will give you more explanation later on what has changed and why.
But to sum up, gamma calculation is still a complex problem. To keep it as simple as possible we have removed the standard gamma reference because it can lead to misunderstanding. As HDholic said, if you find your image too dark (for exemple if you are in a bright environment), you can use a different gamma target than 2.2 but we still think 2,2 is the correct value.
We keep on working on this subject

We have replaced NTSC/PAL standard by REC601 because this is the unique used for DVD (but does not change anything compared to previous NTSC setting)

The main new features are :
Gretag Eye one probe support with spectrum data display
Simultaneous measurement with different probes
Browser
New patterns
Check for update

Ok, so after trying this software for the 1st time, I'm excited to have such a complete product, well put together for the cost of $0 :D ! Excellent!

Only thing that I found when calibrating my RP was a dim or as posted above, kinda dark picture. Can't see any black detalle! Anyone else experienced this? I'm using the Spyder2 w/ filter on as posted in the thread and using LCD mode. I've been using a spreadsheet program for a while so I know it's not a user mistake. Calibration was conducted in dark room, it's 2:23AM :eek: !

Other than that, two thumbs up :) !

Hi Mist8rioso

Can you please post your chc file, and if you have one, a chc file of the measure before changing settings.
What do you use for a pattern generator ?

Hello,

As Ki (Benoit ;)) said it was a bit late yesterday when I ammend the pages and I did not take time to do a proper post...

Version 1.2 is now out, it includes many new features and we hope it will give you an even better experience than 1.1. Bu the way, we strongly encourage you to update...

Instead of re-inventing the wheel, we have decided to go with new probes using vendors SDK API and HCFR have now a full license agreement, hence the added support of Gretag Eyeone probes and others... :D

The main new features are :
- English help file (and updated French one) German should follow...
- Measure Browser, that should really help windows navigation when doing multiples measures and want to check/compare.
- In addition to Spyder and DTP probes, Gretag Eye one support is added (including spectrum data display)
- Simultaneous measurement with different probes
- New patterns (more to come ;))
- Check for update (including upload) both for appas and profiles (for our probe)
- "One stop measurement" (all required measures done in a bunch)
- Easy profile generation (for those having reference probes and HCFR one)

Here it is : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php

As Ki explained we also change a couple of things around the "Gamma preference" to avoid confusions. Anyway, as allready stated it is likely we will debate on this. (see post I've made few days ago). Can even end up by something different later, who bother, this is a normal evolution process..
Color HCFR is an open software and it will evolved by sharing user experience and views ;)

Enjoy... and merry christmas to you all.

--Patrice (and Team)

One other thing I see in the new version..you can update the program right from the program.

thanks Jeff and Rich for your help. I was able to dial in the primary and secondary colours with the use of the pe900u colour management function as suggested. Everything looks good, just need to get the gamma up above 2.

probe -

excellent work...Excellent...

Hi Mist8rioso

Can you please post your chc file, and if you have one, a chc file of the measure before changing settings.
What do you use for a pattern generator ?
Sorry but I referred back to my old gamma settings :) ! I used getgrey. I even tried your pal disc, but it doesn't have window patterns.

Everything looks good, just need to get the gamma up above 2.
Is that because you ended up w. no black detail or dark imaging at low to mid IRE?

Sorry but I referred back to my old gamma settings :) ! I used getgrey. I even tried your pal disc, but it doesn't have window patterns.
It do have them... (v1.1.5)...

Anyway, getGrey is fully fine.

--Patrice ;)

It do have them... (v1.1.5)...
--Patrice ;)
He propably meant his spreadsheet setting :D

Is that because you ended up w. no black detail or dark imaging at low to mid IRE?

No! the exact opposite. I have good dark scene detail...but the image is slightly washed out. I had difficulty at the 100IRE getting a balanced RGB. Blue was too low, and I couldn't raise it without lowering the contrast which washed the image out. I also played with my gamma settings to achieve good dark scene detail and to smooth out the luminance curve..(blue spiked around 90IRE). Anyway, I went too low with my gamma but if I can raise the gamma to over 2, I think I will have an impressive image.

Hello everybody

Please, when you describe what you consider a problem, put a .chc file in your post. It's often easy to make a diagnostic using original measures, but it's impossible when we just have comments about an image. If you say "my image is ugly", nobody can help you... ;)

Regards
Georges

Just for comparison....attached are my before and after chc files. I want to point out that the before chc file was established with the spyderTV Pro software. the interesting thing about the before settings is the average gamma established with the spyder software matches reference perfectly, although the RGB and colour temperature are off. The resulting image from the spyder software looked great but dark scene detail suffered. Anyway, that is why I tried to manipulate my gamma settings.

The resulting image from the spyder software looked great but dark scene detail suffered. Anyway, that is why I tried to manipulate my gamma settings.
If I understand your post correctly, with a 2.2 gamma in HCFR (which SpyderTV matched) you had poor black detail, correct? Then you had to bump up the gamma to correct that? If that's the case, then someone else is experiencing what I've been saying :) .

Can someone post the English help file? I'm at work and can't install HCFR on my pc to view it. Thanks.

If I understand your post correctly, with a 2.2 gamma in HCFR (which SpyderTV matched) you had poor black detail, correct? Then you had to bump up the gamma to correct that? If that's the case, then someone else is experiencing what I've been saying :) .


Correct!...poor black detail at gamma 2.2, however I lowered my gamma to achieve better dark detail.

Correct!...poor black detail at gamma 2.2, however I lowered my gamma to achieve better dark detail.
Thank you. Laric add another one to the club ;) !

Enjoy... and merry christmas to you all.

--Patrice (and Team)


To Patrice, Benoit, Georges, and the entire HCFR team:

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!

Thanks for all that you have done.

Best wishes, Jack

Thanks ;)

Probe, I don't quite get you, your "before" is way better than "after" what did you try to acheive ?

BTW, HDholic / Probe, are you using a Dynamic IRIS equiped projector ?
As then the (very) short answer is yes, you should try to target Gamma 1.9 with IRIS active...
(as said, this is a short answer ;))

More to come...

--Patrice

The "more to come" is allready there... It looks like one of our guru may have found the culprit on this Gamma buzz :D !! and as often it is a pretty stupid mis-understanding (HDholic you'll deserve an explanation later... ;))

We need few hours, but it is likely you'll see a v1.21 soon... !

--Patrice

The "more to come" is allready there... It looks like one of our guru may have found the culprit on this Gamma buzz :D !! and as often it is a pretty stupid mis-understanding (HDholic you'll deserve an explanation later... ;))

We need few hours, but it is likely you'll see a v1.21 soon... !

--Patrice

You guys ROCK!!! Thanks for working so hard during the holidays. :)

I just tried to order one and they didn't have any more. :mad:

Does anyone have an alternative reasonably priced source?

I just got mine from them on Ebay. Search on Ebay using "Monaco OPTIX XR"

The "more to come" is allready there... It looks like one of our guru may have found the culprit on this Gamma buzz :D !! and as often it is a pretty stupid mis-understanding (HDholic you'll deserve an explanation later... ;))

We need few hours, but it is likely you'll see a v1.21 soon... !

--Patrice


merci beaucoup :D

thanks to altavistababelfish..

Joyeux Noël
to all HCFR developement team
and everyboby who use the software.

-Heikki

Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto :D

Can I just say how much better this new release is.... I actually trust my Spyder2 now!

I like the new info at the top of the Grayscale window! Can I ask what the "Black Compansation" means..... not a how it's figured out... just keep is simple... why do I need to know :)

Ok so here's my main question....
I put the Getgray in my HD-DVD add on to XBOX360... should I keep the RGB alway to 0-255 (because it's basically a computer) and should I calibrate to REC709 Because I'll only be watching/playing HD even though the Getgray is only REC 601? If I can't calibrate to REC 709 using the Getgray disc... how should it be done?
As a side note.... I can view pictures on my computer through the Xbox 360! Point me to the right place please! :) Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!

Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto :D


you had me cracking up on that one..hahahah :p :p :p

:lol:

nate358, output level and colorspace are two different things, hence they are independantly set... In your case you should use REC709 and 16-235 as ---To my knowledge--- (this could evolve in futur) the XBox360 output in video level both in RGB (VGA) or YUV.

As for pictures, we don't have any available, but it is something I'm working on (as well as emmemded pattern generator in software).

Also there will be (soon ?) an HD-DVD version of our DVD...

--Patrice

Thanks ;)

Probe, I don't quite get you, your "before" is way better than "after" what did you try to acheive ?

BTW, HDholic / Probe, are you using a Dynamic IRIS equiped projector ?
As then the (very) short answer is yes, you should try to target Gamma 1.9 with IRIS active...
(as said, this is a short answer ;))

More to come...

--Patrice

Well, if my before is much better than the after....then I clearly don't know what I am trying to do...lol...my after has the primary and secondary colours dead on...help me understand what is better about the first.

I'm sorry, there was a confusion between files on my side :D !!

--Patrice (too tired)

No problem....I appreciate all you and your group have done...the software is fantastic...and has been a great benefit to me.


Happy Holidays!!

Thanks again, your efforts are much appreciated..Happy Holidays to all

Does anyone have an answer to the contrast ratio question I asked? The sofware asks for 4 screens when doing the contrast ratio measure, max black, max white and ansi 1 and 2. What screens would I use for ansi 1 and 2 using getgray, avia or DVE?

Does anyone have an answer to the contrast ratio question I asked? The sofware asks for 4 screens when doing the contrast ratio measure, max black, max white and ansi 1 and 2. What screens would I use for ansi 1 and 2 using getgray, avia or DVE?

ansi 1 pattern is a pattern divided into 16 (4x4) alternating black and white rectangles (as a chessboard).
ansi 2 is the same with inverted black and white rectangles.
The measure is done with probe turned to projector, one time in a black rectangle and white time in a white rectangle (the 2 patterns allow you to do the two measures without moving the probe).

ansi 1 pattern is a pattern divided into 16 (4x4) alteranting black and white rectangles (as a chessboard).
ansi 2 is the same with inverted black and white rectangles.
The measure is be done with probe turned to projector, one time in a black rectangle and white time in a white rectangle (the 2 patterns allow you to do the two measures without moving the probe).

Ahh, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up :)

I like the new info at the top of the Grayscale window! Can I ask what the "Black Compansation" means..... not a how it's figured out... just keep is simple... why do I need to know :)

When "black compensation" is checked, brightness value for black is substracted to all brightness values. As a result, the 0% point is at 0 brightness on the chart.

When I try to use this it tells me my CVSpyder.dll file is invalid.

My file says it's version 3.0.0.0

Any tips on finding the right CVSpyder.dll to use?? Because I'm dying to try this out.

-Brian

Brian

You need to go to the spyder folder and copy the CVSspyder.dll, paste in the HCFR folder where the executable is at..that will take care of your problem

Et joyeux noël à tous :cool:

Richlo,

I tried that and it says my CVSpyder.dll is no good. I'm sure you will see you have a later version of the file then 3.0.0.0 which is what mine is.

I tried to google cvspyder.dll and came back with nothing.

-Brian

Go to Colorvision and see if you can get it from there, maybe someone here can give you a copy and zip here...

Download the spyder2express setup.exe and copy the .dll file from there..

Boun Natale
Feliz Navidad

BTW, HDholic / Probe, are you using a Dynamic IRIS equiped projector ?

No Dynamic IRIS here. I sent you my setup info.

It looks like one of our guru may have found the culprit on this Gamma buzz !! and as often it is a pretty stupid mis-understanding (HDholic you'll deserve an explanation later... )

We need few hours, but it is likely you'll see a v1.21 soon... !
I'm happy for the news ;) . I hope that clears things up...

::::Merry Christmas:::: :)

When I select 16-235 and proceed to read P/S colors, the pop-up window doesn't specify color to be read, which cause me confusion. Is this an easy fix?

Richlo,

Thanks, Another forum member is going to email it,.. thanks again,

Brian

When I select 16-235 and proceed to read P/S colors, the pop-up window doesn't specify color to be read, which cause me confusion. Is this an easy fix?

I will look at it ;)
But when you use manual dvd generator, RGB reference has no effect then you can keep this setting to 0-255 until we fix this.

Hi,

Got the updated CVSpyder.dll and it works great. Now that I'm beginning to understand the program I'm very excited about it, looks great!

-Brian

What about PAL/SECAN space colour? It's missing...


Regards

I calibrated my Sanyo Z3 last night with my Eye One Pro 2 XT UV. The readings above 30% were really fast compared to a Spyder2. Don't know if this is a software improvement or the Eye One.

I first tried the beamer set up but the readings were way off. I attached the ambient light filter (with electrical tape to the beamer stand) and everything went back to normal. In HCFR I have the Eye One set to read LCD and average dark readings.

My low readings are totally different than the Spyder2, excess red instead of blue. Between cals I did change a setting on my dvd player to send below black, so I had to redo brightness and contrast. This could have changed the balance of the RGB offsets.

I don't know if this a difference in sensors or a change with HCFR but the Eye One's Y readings (as in xyY) were completely different than the Spyder2, see the chc.

30-80 turned out great but I still have problems at each extreme. I also dialed in gamma as close to 1.94 curve as possible. But it sounds like gamma numbers may agree in the next update, so we'll see.

While watching Pirates of the Caribbean Dead Man's Chest I played with different HDMI color spaces (I have a choice between YCbCr 4:2:2, YCbCr 4:4:4 and RGB), from previous cals I've used 4:2:2 but this looked a little washed out. RGB had the best saturation but completely killed all balck detail with my current brightness and contrast. I'll do a full calibration again tonight in RGB to see if it looks better tweaked.

Thanks again HCFR team for listening to your users and quickly adding features we need and letting us lose sleep playing with our displays.

Kyle -

looks like you bumb up BLUE contrast (drive) too much (clipping) , bring that down and try cutting red and green instead..that will probably take care of your gamma issue right now...

Try 1st highlighting 100IRE on HCFR, then click on Display Measure Information, run continues, play with the red, and greens and see how the bars move up and down..try to keep Blue as much as possible out of the equation..You may have to refer back to your original settings then try going the route I just mentioned..On one of my sets, blue from let say 7 on contrast (98% on the bar) and moving up one click to 8, goes 122%..

What about PAL/SECAN space colour? It's missing...


Regards


If I am correct, pal and HD color space are the same..someone correct me here

If I am correct, pal and HD color space are the same..someone correct me here

I read HDTV and PAL space colours are equals in this thread, but in your soft in previous version (1,12)
the primary green colour of PAL is x= 0,290 y= 0,600 and in the new release (1,2) is x=0,300, y= 0,600. (they have differents coordenadas)

The others (primary colors) are Ok...


Other question: white point. I don't know where I read, the white point must be different ( some degrees less in HDTV.)


Thanks in advanced and Regards

Hi,
Merry Christmas to all.
I am a calibration novice and have received the Optix XR colorimeter. I have read this thread and would like to give the HCFR sw a try.
My DLP projector (Optoma HD7100) has the following adjustments available in the user menu:
Brightness
Contrast
Colour
Tint
Sharpness
Gamma (1.0/1.5/1.8/2.0/2.2/2.35/2.5/2.8)
Colour Temp (5,000K~10,000K) with x/y adjustment
White balance (RGB gain/offset)

If I have to adjust the CIE chart, do I act on the RGB gain/offset controls or on the colour/tint controls?

I have burned the HCFR DVD but I don’t know how to make contrast adjustments with it??
Should I upgrade to the new HCFR version before I start or do I proceed with the older until the correction on the gamma issue on the new one is posted??
Thank you for your help.

I read HDTV and PAL space colours are equals in this thread
Non, they are not... HD is REC709, PAL is EBU 3213 and NTSC Rec601.

Anyway, we supose (and you have no choice in software) people calibrate all to D65 (where as C point should be use in NTSC), so that makes no difference, except a slight change on reference positions.

--Patrice

FGM -

IF you have x/y adjustment, the coordinates should be x =.313 and y= .329 that will give you the D65
That should be a color temp of 6504K
Gamma would be 2.2


CIE has primary, secondary points, look at all the X's on the line of the diagram, the primaries are the color (red, green, blue) and your secondaries are Tint (yellow, cyan, magenta), you will use color/tint controls to adjust that. Your x, y coordinates should hit the D65 on the CIE. The White Balance, will help you fine tune to hit D65 (or the coordinates of .313 and .329)

Setting contrast I have never used HCFR, what I use is the contrast pattern in AVIA, if you have that, pull that pattern up, look to see if you have two white pattern bars that are moving, if you only see one or none, your contrast is too high, bring it down until you see both, bring it back up until you see only one, then bring it down a few clicks, you should be able to see the 2nd bar.

Brightness make sur you bringup a 0IRE pattern (black), you probably will see some noise and then you bring it down until you no longer see the noise (make sure to walk up to your screen to do this). If you do not see any noise (mosquito noise), bring up the brightness up until you do and click down until you dont.

Thanks for the answer Rich, I have nothing to add :D

You can adjust brightness contraste wtith patterns in our DVD or the new (advance menu) moving pattern in our software...

Obviously, AVIA or getGrey or any other way is fine too.

--Patrice

Hey,

I've been exploring this great software. I love it. I am curious about the ANSI contrast measurement section. On the DVD there are 2 checkerboard patterns (one is the inverse of the other). What is the thinking behind this? How should the sensor be aimed to measure this? I can't see how this particular measurement would (or should) work.

Thanks,

Brian

Hey,

I've been exploring this great software. I love it. I am curious about the ANSI contrast measurement section. On the DVD there are 2 checkerboard patterns (one is the inverse of the other). What is the thinking behind this? How should the sensor be aimed to measure this? I can't see how this particular measurement would (or should) work.

Thanks,

Brian

Brian, read back a few posts. You will see the answser.
:)

Anyone have a calibration file for a VPH-G70.

I noticed the latest version 1.2 added more displays but not Sony FP CRTs.

Anyone have a calibration file for a VPH-G70.

I noticed the latest version 1.2 added more displays but not Sony FP CRTs.

Calibration files are only used with HCFR DIY Probe.
For other probes, you don't need one.

audioholicjeff,

Ok, I checked it and learned. That's pretty cool. Can't wait to try it out.

-Brian

Calibration files are only used with HCFR DIY Probe.
For other probes, you don't need one.
I'm curious. What and how are they used for?

hi gang after downloading new version and using the suggestions from before i decided to try again. although i believe all of my reading are good the end results are still not good to me. now what i mean by this is to say that the picture that i'm looking at has a greenish hue or tint to it. now i know that this display has decoder error on the green nothing i can do about it that i know of it is turned down all the way. i have tried other spreadsheet based software out on the forums without any hint of green tint. so i am wondering if its something software based or is it related to my probe the spyder? if i go back to any standard settings the green hue disappears so i'm pretty sure its got something to do with either the probe or the software. i think perhaps i will look into buying a different probe to see if that helps.

... the picture that i'm looking at has a greenish hue or tint to it. now i know that this display has decoder error on the green nothing i can do about it that i know of it is turned down all the way. i have tried other spreadsheet based software out on the forums without any hint of green tint. so i am wondering if its something software based or is it related to my probe the spyder? if i go back to any standard settings the green hue disappears so i'm pretty sure its got something to do with either the probe or the software. i think perhaps i will look into buying a different probe to see if that helps.
So you saying that when calibrating with the spreadsheet program you don't get green tint on picture, Only with HCFR? Do you have the baffle "on" the Spyder2 and using LCD mode?

So you saying that when calibrating with the spreadsheet program you don't get green tint on picture, Only with HCFR? Do you have the baffle "on" the Spyder2 and using LCD mode?

yes the baffle is on and i use the LCD setting. any other ideas?

Very strange...Doesn't happen w. spreadsheet?? I suppose that you're using the same DVD for patterns, right? Other than that, can't think of anything else.

Did you try re-reading with the spreadsheet (post HCFR) to see if it registers the green error?

Simply look at Gamut (CIE Chart), green is way off...

Try any color management you may have on your projector, may be tint too... I dunno that much on NTSC...

--Patrice

Very strange...Doesn't happen w. spreadsheet?? I suppose that you're using the same DVD for patterns, right? Other than that, can't think of anything else.

Did you try re-reading with the spreadsheet (post HCFR) to see if it registers the green error?

no i didn't ry that but now looking at the screen maybe its the color decoder thats giveing me the problems i will try and adjust it to see if thats where the problem lies

I wouldn't think that the green oversaturation on the CIE chart would cause that. IMO, it would only make green colored items stand out, but shouldn't cause a green coloration to the entire image. My set doesn't have perfect decoder points and I never experienced that.

spudbuddy

Im guessing either your spyder is in bad shape, because your file actually looks fine, so something is going on with how your calibrating, such as your using the wrong mode.

What I would do, is not touch color and tint, and put them where they were PREVIOUSLY - do not match the CIE diagram, and try doing your calibration this way..and let us know what you get..Your CIE diagram right now just tells us that your oversaturated in greens. You dont mention what your calibrating..

As mentioned above, use LCD MODE w/baffle on - all the time. I believe that the CRT mode in Spyder is for computer crt (directview), so unless you have that, follow these instructions.

also if this is a CRT, then make sure that your gamma is 2.5 and not trying to hit 2.2

alright after playing with the color decoder, adjusting the red back to zero and not in line with the CIE chart it looks to me that the green hue is gone. not sure if this is because of the probe not picking up red correctly or what. for now i think i will leave the red setting at zero. now when i do the calibrating i leave color and tint at zero, and the color decoder at all zero and adjust them after doing grayscale.
Pioneer 1130HD
Oppo 971H
tried doing both hdmi and s video out from dvd player
i will try and do component too. am going to order a optix xr and see if that will clear up my problems. thanks to all who helped with this GREAT software :D

Nice - there are couple of Illinois people around here..well at least 3 of us..hhahahah..

Nice - there are couple of Illinois people around here..well at least 3 of us..hhahahah..

Count me as one also. So yes there may be at least 3, if not 4 of us here....

I'm curious. What and how are they used for?

Only a short answer, I'm not a color measurement specialist ;)
The HCFR probe is a simple tri stimulus probe that only makes measure in its sensors colorspace which is not standard colorspace.
The calibration file allow transformation from probe colorspace to standard CIE colorspace by taking into account projector lamp spectrum.
Without calibration file for your projector, you can adjust linear RGB level to have constant colour on the whole IRE scale but can't be sure that colour temperature is 6500K.

Other probes, as spyder, directly give results in XYZ and then does not need such a transformation.

Here is my first go around with Spyder 2. I used HFCR disk. The RGB is fairly close but the CIE is off. Anyway any thoughts would appreciate.

LaShag-
If this is the Mits, I have a 3000U, and let me tell you, your using too much RED CONTRAST, bring it down to zero first, then calibrate it by cutting blue and Green contrast first and use as min of Red in Contrast. Make sure to calibrate 100IRE first..you should be able to track way better.

The way you can tell that your clipping Red Contrast is to look at your gamma and make sure you set it to view RED, Green, Blue (right click on the gamma plot)...You will see your using way too much Red (on the curve chart it cut up and away - kinks - means too much red, in the line gamma - if it goes down it means the same - although it looks like the reverse) and it dies out, then on Blue your using way too little, so go the other route, trust me, I did the same thing like you...and going the route I tell you is the way to go..The middle of your IRE is very good, so obviously you understand what your doing, just that with that its very important that you do not clip your Reds, which is what I earlier did..So start from stratch your RGB controls and go from there. Make sure to do your contrast and brightness first, then when you get close to your .313 and .329, redo the brightness and contrast, and rerun your testing to fine tune..

Good luck..try setting your color and tint first - if available, on my Mits3000U -HDMI its locked out, but using the Oppo, I tweaked color to -2 and got a very beautiful CIE, every color point I touched or hit the mark...Good luck and very good first try, mine wasnt even that close like your is..

Here is my Mits3000U..notice 11tries..hahhaha it took one try though when I found out what I was doing wrong..

Richlo- Txs..Set contrast, bright and color first, tint locked out as you stated. I'll play some more, I restarted once at dead zero on all but ended back up with too much red. Picture looks great in spite of it.