http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon4.gif DEAD New thread for Version 2.0+, here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=983943).
♫ (http://www.imeem.com/people/ygBR01/music/Ln4pf3g7/sui-generis-cancion-para-mi-muerte/)

ColorHCFR is a calibration software originally created to be used with the specially designed HCFR probe, by the homecinema-fr Colorimètre team. This is a very pro software and totally free.

In order to properly calibrate your TV/Projector you'll need a Colorimeter, a Calibration Software and a Pattern Generator.


Colorimeter

Currently supported:

- HCFR probe (Do-it-yourself). >> (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8716283&&#post8716283)
- Colorvision Spyder2.
- XRite DTP-94 (AKA Monaco Optix).
- GMB/Xrite/Pantone Eye-One Display2/LT.
- Gretag Macbeth Eye-One Pro.

More information in the following post.
_______________________________________|


Calibration Software

- Download ColorHCFR (http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/release/Setup_v2_0_0.exe) calibration software.
(8MB - Ver. 2.0) more info (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=983943).

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1219/softgz9.jpg
This software is distributed under the GNU GPL license (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html).
_______________________________________|


Pattern Generator

- Download the HCFR DVD (http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/release/DVD_V2.0.0.ISO) with patterns.
(60.9MB - PAL multiregion)

Note: Get Avia, Getgray or DVE in case your
player isn't compatible with PAL DVDs.

Or AVS HD 709 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496) (DVD-5) in order to calibrate with HD DVD color space.

_______________________________________|


Visit www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php, for more information.
-------------------------------------------------|

HCFR Probe:
Pros: it's the official and original ColorHCFR colorimeter and totally supported. Really quick readings -maybe the fastest- even in difficult conditions such as low luminance patterns (IRE 10, 20, 30).
Cons: it uses a calibration file to properly calibrate. So it may be incompatible with your display/proj. for a while until the file is available.
Price: possibly inexpensive if done correctly (by a professional in a group buy), or expensive if you DIY -and have no tools or knowledge to begin with-. So it depends on the conditions, from $50 to infinite...

More info. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8716283&&#post8716283)

Colorvision Spyder2:
Pros: the cheapest colorimeter. It may be labeled as "entry level" but it's an accurate probe just perfect for the calibrator on a budget. Totally supported.
Cons: the slowest, especially in dark patterns. Also inconsistent at those low IRE levels.
Price: the colorimeter (hardware) is part of several Colorvision packages. So it starts at $79 msrp in Spyder2 Express.

Xrite DTP-94 (AKA Monaco Optix):
Pros: quite fast, it is a very accurate colorimeter. It even has recalibration (internal offset calculation based on the temperature). The most recommended by the ColorHCFR team. Totally supported.
Cons: more expensive than Spyder2 and discontinued, still one of the best.
Price: from $219 msrp in Monaco Optix Xr.

Gretag Macbeth/Xrite/Pantone Eye-One Display2/LT:
Pros: since Xrite and Gretag Macbeth merged this is supposed to be the replacement for the DTP94. Probably as good as the Xrite. Now fully supported.
Cons: also more expensive than Spyder2.
Price: included in several packages. From $170 msrp in Pantone Eye-One Display LT.

Gretag Macbeth Eye-One Pro:
Pros: really accurate, unlike the others (which are filter-based) this is not a colorimeter but a spectrophotometer. As it's name implies this is a more professional tool (needs to be recalibrated regularly). Totally supported.
Cons: really expensive, not necessary better than a good filter-based colorimeter in real world calibrations.
Price: did I say expensive? From $1095 msrp in Eye-One Beamer.

---------------------

When using S2Fly, does the program take into account the blue filter on the Spyder2 when LCD/Projector is selected. Or should the filter be removed for all readings?

Here is some info about S2Fly:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7763001&&#post7763001


But it doesn't especify that.

I went ahead and translated the entire application to English. It took about 6-7 hours, but was worth it. This application is actually very similar to ColorFacts. I encourage everyone to try it out, especially now that it is in a language we can all understand :)

Install the application in French, than overwrite the .exe file in the program directory with the one attached in the .zip file.

Hope this helps everyone out!

*EDIT* Apparently, I can't attach the file because it is too big! Anyone have any suggestions?

Anyone have any suggestions?Sent PM.

Okay everybody, here it is! :)

http://rapidshare.de/files/37226988/ColorHCFR.zip.html

Install the application in French, than overwrite the .exe in the program directory with the one in the .zip file.

ENJOY!

TRANSLATED: Menus, Toolbars, Dialog Boxes, Tooltips, Status, Preferences, Application Information, etc.

P.S. If anyone has any translation suggesstions, like maybe things I translated wrong, or things that should be named differently, let me know and I will change them promptly. :)

P.S.S. There were certain things, such as, text inside drop-down boxes that I coud not find an edit for. So, I could not translate these, if anyone has any suggesstions on how to translate these parts, let me know.

Good find and thanks for the work onthe translation! Thanks.

Phil

Has anyone compared this software's results to any of the other software suites using the spyder2 colorimeter?

Okay everybody, here it is! :)

http://rapidshare.de/files/37226988/ColorHCFR.zip.htmlDownloads fail.

It should work properly, if not delete cookies and try again. Remember to click on "Free".

It should work properly, if not delete cookies and try again. Remember to click on "Free".Nope. Dumped the cookies and hit "Free" (as before) but still get "The page cannot be displayed" message.

I don't know, it is still working here. Anyway, download both .txt > rename to .rar > unrar.

Okay everybody, here it is! :)

Install the application in French, than overwrite the .exe in the program directory with the one in the .zip file.

ENJOY!

TRANSLATED: Menus, Toolbars, Dialog Boxes, Tooltips, Status, Preferences, Application Information, etc.

P.S. If anyone has any translation suggesstions, like maybe things I translated wrong, or things that should be named differently, let me know and I will change them promptly. :)

P.S.S. There were certain things, such as, text inside drop-down boxes that I coud not find an edit for. So, I could not translate these, if anyone has any suggesstions on how to translate these parts, let me know.

DeCSS - great job!
What about translating the windows help file ;-)

Have anyone burned the DVD? I cannot get it to burn to DVDRW with Nero Express 6!

Have anyone burned the DVD? I cannot get it to burn to DVDRW with Nero Express 6!

Seems to be an Archive not an ISO Image. I've opened it with winrar and got a dvd file structure. so maybe you should unrar it and put the files on your dvd.

Yep, it worked that way. Thanks.

If anyone is interested in authoring a HDDVD (with Movie Factory 5, for example) click here (http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/download.php?id=25529) to download the patterns in 1920x1080.

More info in french forum (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.homecinema-fr.com%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D169903772&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools).

Has anyone compared this software's results to any of the other software suites using the spyder2 colorimeter?

Yes. I compared my results to CalMan and Rader's spreadsheet, they are identical. However, each package has it's benefits. CalMan requires Excel, but takes measurements directly from the meter. Rader's sheet is not as accurate, but is free. This software requires no 3rd party applications, it's free, but I have not figured out a way to take measurements directly from the meter. I know their is a way, but I haven't figured it out yet.

Also, I hope someone can give me some recomendations for translations. I have a feeling some of the translations could have been better.

Yes. I compared my results to CalMan and Rader's spreadsheet, they are identical.

curious
i've input my rader readings from a previous calibration
and i get a mojor difference in gamma
in rader's sheet it's 2.48
with HCFR it's around 1.9

UPDATE 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Updated with minor interface fixes (i.e. menu spacing, grammar correction, etc.)
*Updated with new translated items (i.e. most of the drop-down menus)

http://rapidshare.de/files/37277309/ColorHCFR.zip.html

Just overwrite your existing .exe file with this newer one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is still a lot to be done, but it's getting better. I need suggesstions on translations though. Keep in mind, I don't know French, this was all done with BabelFish and my own knowledge of display calibration.

ENJOY!

Thanks.... and keep up the good work!! :D

Thanks for all of your works. Finally I can make some pro-looking graphs.Just like the attached file. Not perfect, but pretty close .

Hi DeCSS

I'm one of the authors of Colorimètre HCFR. You made a great job translating resources directly in the executable ;) Anyway, most of the interesting texts are directly inside source code, you can't translate them...

BTW, the best interest of this application is when used with the HCFR colorimeter, which is a DIY electronic device. It's cheap (maybe 20 to 30$) and easy to build if you can solder components, make a printed circuit, and program a PIC. In France, HCFR team organised fabrication and distribution for a few hundred of people who couldn't make it by themselves...

Typing values directly in fields can make it work to have good graphs, but it's far from using the application with the colorimeter ;) Anyway, we are looking to other devices, and maybe one day you could use it with easy to buy devices.

About translation: you are wondering about some types of measures: "voisinage du noir" means "near black". It's for measures of IRE 0, 1, 2, 3, 4. It's intended to check luma curbe near black. "voisinage du blanc" is "near white". The same, with IRE 96, 97, 98, 99, 100. "saturation" measures are experimental, they are measures of colors with different saturation levels (from white to pure color) to check color quality... I think it would be difficult to use it with an external device, using copy paste operations ;)

Georges G

Hey Georges, it would be great if you can make it work with the Spyder Colorimeter.

Great work.
Carmine.

Hi Carmine

It would be nice if I knew how to communicate with a Spyder... I don't know anything of the protocol ;)

And frankly speaking, when we wrote this software, if we knew how to communicate with any suitable cheap device, we wouldn't have created our own colorimeter ;)

Georges

Hi Carmine

It would be nice if I knew how to communicate with a Spyder... I don't know anything of the protocol ;)

And frankly speaking, when we wrote this software, if we knew how to communicate with any suitable cheap device, we wouldn't have created our own colorimeter ;)

Georges

Check the link in post #5 it provides some detail and a contact on the sypder2 interface software, it may provide some insight... or not :)

Hi Carmine

It would be nice if I knew how to communicate with a Spyder... I don't know anything of the protocol ;)

And frankly speaking, when we wrote this software, if we knew how to communicate with any suitable cheap device, we wouldn't have created our own colorimeter ;)

Georges
uhm.. I do :rolleyes:
Contact me and I'll provide you with the API details.

// Lyckman (Creator of S2Fly)

When using S2Fly, does the program take into account the blue filter on the Spyder2 when LCD/Projector is selected. Or should the filter be removed for all readings?
According to colorvision the filter should always be on regardless of the displaytype. And I might mention that I never undeersttood the "CRT"-mode. The values is on par with the ones reported from Spyder2 Pro colorimeter, but the values themselves are very strange..

I always use filter (baffle) on, LCD/Proj mode.

// Lyckman

uhm.. I do :rolleyes:
Contact me and I'll provide you with the API details.

// Lyckman (Creator of S2Fly)
:rolleyes:

Yeah that guy in Post #5 :D

Hey, I was checking this out, but am not sure which options to try, to use this with the meter I bought/got with my SMART III calibration kit.

I have one of the Extech "403125" meters, and some R / G / B filters.

I assume I should choose the generator HCFR to get the test patterns off my HTP, but manual DVD to get the patters off my HD-DVD player?

And then for meter I choose Capture Simule? And then choose "Start Calibration" rather than using an existing file.

And then for "reference" ("Display"?) I choose sRGB.

But I'm not sure what next?

HCFR doesn't read any meter rather than the HCFR one (DIY). So if you can't get the xyY information and paste it in HCFR you won't get to calibrate.
The S2Fly application gives xyY information for Spyder2 colorimeter only.

Hi all

I'm a member of Colorimetre HCFR team too but worked on the meter design.

nathan_h, "Generator HCFR" is a special designed mode that allows to get patterns from a DVD player with automatic pattern selection. It will only works with HCFR meter because it requires an IR LED.
"Manual DVD" allows you to get patterns from a DVD (or HD DVD) player with manual pattern selection.
"Affichage mires" allows you to get patterns from video output of your computer.

"Capteur simule" is a test mode that displays theorical measurement value without doing physical measurement.

By the way, as there is no interface with any other meter than HCFR one (at that time :cool: ), there is no use for these parameters for you. Just select "Cancel" and paste xyY measurement from your meter in the table (if you get them).

Ki

Hmmm. Okay. I can measure lumens for each (R / G / B) color separately at each IRE level played back from HD-DVD test patters, but it sounds like I cannot just plug those figures in.

The Spyder2 is this one, right?, from the Colorvision site: Spyder2express?

The right meter is the HCFR DIY one. It's the only meter with wich you can directly make measure with the Colorimetre HCFR software.
With a Spyder 2, you can make measurement and, using tools described in this topic, paste xyY measurement into Colorimetre HCFR software.

Could someone from the team explain how to build the HCFR DIY meter step by step? I'm anxious to work w/ this program.

Seems I am too young to post url :o

All the details on the meter are on the homecinema-fr website ... but in french :cool:
It's on a page called /colorimetre

Note that the described meter PCB is the second version.
A third version has been done to make mounting easier but is not on line yet.

Ok do i understand correcly that i have to take the dvd and catch greyscale off the dvd and also red green blue with s2fly:
greyscale: 0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
red: 0 25 50 75 10
green: 0 25 50 75 100
blauw: 0 25 50 75 100
And then i convert the output in the excel and copy them in te colorhcfr?

grt,
Ruben

Which patterns of the dvd do i use for according to white and according to black?

The link given by SgtPepper is not the last version of the DVD.
It does not include near white and near black pattern.

You will get the correct version by replacing DVD_V1.0.9.ISO by DVD_V1.1.3.ISO
You will find the patterns your are looking for in "niveaux de gris complémentaires".

On this dvd you can select if you use a CRT device or a projector device (for CRT device, reduced patterns are displayed instead of full screen patterns)

This dvd still has a bug : if you select "saturation des primaires" patterns, you will get reduced patterns instead of full screen patterns. It should be fixed within a short time.

ok got it. Now i can do all the calibrations where i can manualy put in the values. But how about de ones where you can't put in the values manualy. Do I realy need these? Or can I do without them?

The link has been updated.

Noob question

Will the Spyder2express (cheapest) meter bundle work fine for calibrating any display including Lcd, Plasma, LCoS, DLP ect. with S2Fly and HCFR or should I get SpyderTV?

Do either of these include the revised meter?

Ok love the programm, but we have to get the spyder2 to work with this programm, iff we can do that then we have a winning combo.

The colorimeter you need for S2Fly (Spyder2) is included in any of those packages. So if you want to use HCFR, Calman or Rader just buy the cheapest one (Spyder2express).

George, possible to get the DVD in NTSC format? Nice program.

Seems I am too young to post url :o

All the details on the meter are on the homecinema-fr website ... but in french :cool:
It's on a page called /colorimetre

Note that the described meter PCB is the second version.
A third version has been done to make mounting easier but is not on line yet.

Thank you for showing where the directions are. Phew! Looks too complicated for me. Much better I buy the Spyder2 and hope for an automated interface -- or just write down the results into the software! :)

For those that was a flavor of what it takes, here is the babelfish translation:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=fr_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.homecinema-fr.com%2fColorimetre%2fsonde.php

Is there no way for the authors of the programm to get this working with the spyder2? Maybe they can ask lyckyman as he seems to have done it with his programm.

Hello,

I'm also one of the members of the "Colorimetre HCFR Team" ;)

We are releasing version 1.0 (software) at the moment, BTW, it looks like we can probably have a french/english version quite easily with help from you guys...

I'm more on the technical side of the meter and can give any tips to people interested in building their own.

At the moment we have two versions of the hardware, they are both identical in term of feature, only difference is the PVB layout (single sided/dual sided)... All the work is done with KiCAD and can be modified (kind of "GPL Licence" on this ;)) Files are available at the given link.

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/sonde.php (single side, easier to build).
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/sonde2.php (double sided).

BTW, I may do an english version of those pages...


Software 1.0 is now out and one of the next stages is to be able to use other devices, so that will definitly be done... some day.

--Patrice

It'll be awesome if it worked w/ spyder.

I wonder if those "DIY" meters are any accurate for reading color info.

They are ;) (Given their known limits) Far enough for our needs...

--Patrice

I'm quite impressed by what you guys on the "Colorimetre HCFR Team" have put together. Building the meter appears to be beyond me -- I once tried to add a circuit to a video game player and that effort not successful at all -- but I think I can use the generic light meter I have, with the color filters, and generate figures for each IRE value off my DVE and put the values in manually...

wow, this is amazing stuff! this could revolutionize things for all the DIY calibrators at home....and I was excited about the possibility of a generic spyder2 + calman, but this could be even more affordable! Plus i'm a big proponent of open source :)

Does the DIY colorimeter work with all display types? Any idea how accurate it is relative to the Spyder2?

Nathan, you can make this, or get it made by a local electronic engineer for you.

All the parts are commonly avaliable, again if you are unsure go into an electronics store with a printout of the parts list for advise.

There is 2 components which which are harder to sort out.

The pcb, which there is 2 types. Single sided and double sided versions.
Look through your phone book for curcuit board makers. Again a few phone calls to local electronic engineers will steer you in the right direction. Downnload the files at the bottom of the web address listed previously and put them onto cd.
Take these to the curcuit board maker.

It can be 1/8 the price to get the pcb made as a prototype, that is without the pretty markings, so bare this in mind.

The next bit that is hard is the micro controller. PIC18F2550
This requires flashing with a hex code. Again the code is on the website.
Again let your fingers do the walking, ring round the electronics engineers.
What you are looking for is someone who can flash a PIC18F2550, which has 28 pins.

Now I have got 2 sources for both these 2 bits sorted I can proceed with making one for myself.

Thanks for the encouragement. Definitely be quicker for me to take manual readings with my existing meter, I think :) but I'll keep this in mind.

They are ;) (Given their known limits) Far enough for our needs...

--Patrice
Does it require calibration? I looked at the datasheet of the sensor and it looks like calibration is necessary. How to perform it?

Yes it needs it if you want to acheive D65 (so far, we are looking on how to remove it).
We have the notion of "etalon" that are available for all major lcd/dlp/sxrd on the market.
If your one is listed there is no need.

--Patrice

This looks very cool.

If i understand everything you can only use "DIY" colormeter for direct readings.

Can I buy one somewhere ? and then how much $$$



When will it work with SpyderExpress, Spyder2 ?
Any date ?

Anyway, great work

Yes it needs it if you want to acheive D65 (so far, we are looking on how to remove it).
We have the notion of "etalon" that are available for all major lcd/dlp/sxrd on the market.
If your one is listed there is no need.

--Patrice

Laric, I'm in the process of building 1(actually 2) and I was wondering how it was to be calibrated. where is this "etalon" and how do you use it.

I have a question about the components list for the probe.

Some of the capacitor values are different on the schematic drawing to the web site list.
Is the list on the web the one to follow?
examples.
27pF~33pF
56uF~100uF 10v(noted that the pics show a 16v item.)
Chemical polarized? I asked an electronics engineer and he had never heard of that term for a electrolite Capacitor.

The micro switch sw1,sw2, is the farnell 947-1707 microswitch the correct type.
X1-Quartz-4mhz is farnell 971-2283 the correct one.
Q1-npn-BC547 is farnell 109-7287 the correct one.

Also is there a French/English help(operation) file avaliable?

I'm in New Zealand so PAL is the prefered system so this will work well for us here.

Regards
<^..^>
Smokey Joe

Great software! One thing that is of concern is the color space that this software uses. I would imagine that the DVD test patterns are encoded in Pal, so they would use Pal color space and not NTSC, is that correct? Also, I though that Pal has different black level point. So if you calibrate your pj using this software and then watch NTSC movies would you end up with off colors? Am I totally off here :)

good point, I'll like to know about this too

Video levels are the same on PAL and NTSC (RGB 16-235). Both use the same YCbCr transformation formula as well. But, creating a mpeg stream and subsequently authoring a DVD that does not "mess with the colors" and produces the "right" colors is more of a challenge than one might think. I've tested it wrong on multiple occasions on other discs. I'd be more concerned about that than the PAL vs NTSC thing, personally. After all, even the highly popular AVIA (consumer version) has well known errors. On the other hand, no more accurate than the DIY colorimeter device probably is, the point is likely moot :)

27pF~33pF
56uF~100uF 10v(noted that the pics show a 16v item.)
Chemical polarized? I asked an electronics engineer and he had never heard of that term for a electrolite Capacitor.

The micro switch sw1,sw2, is the farnell 947-1707 microswitch the correct type.
X1-Quartz-4mhz is farnell 971-2283 the correct one.
Q1-npn-BC547 is farnell 109-7287 the correct one.

Also is there a French/English help(operation) file avaliable?

27 or 33pF are both fines, as well as 56 to 100uF for the main electrolite Capacitor.
The three farnell references you list are all fine.


The software accomodate PAL/NTSC and HD ColorSpaces ;)

At the moment the optionnal DVD iso image we have built is PAL only but an NTSC version will be there very soon, as well as an HD-DVD one ;)

--Patrice

so once again.... can you outline the methodology for calibrating the sensor?

:confused:

Hi Jim

The easiest way to reliably calibrate the sensor is to define a D65 white point on a projector, for example using Colorfacts or any other calibration tool. When you have a calibrated projector, capable of displaying D65 on IRE 100 (or any other level), just use it with HCFR sensor to build a reference conversion matrix ("étalon" in french). This reference file will be fine with any projector of the same type (trademark and model), and any HCFR sensor.

There is another way to make those "étalon", using DDE channels, and some people in the HCFR team use it to produce and check validity of those references. But it would be too long and complex to explain it here ;)

Georges

2 Questions

Is it possible to use S2Fly w/ test patterns running from dvd player, how do I go about that?
I want to calibrate an HD CRT RPTV, do I use LCD/PROJ or CRT?
Do I remove the LCD attachment (green filter) when working w/ anything but LCD, I bought the Spyder2express?

Question to Laric, others may be curious aswell.

I was looking at the photodiode TCS230 pdf file and was wondering if a Hoya CM500 filter is required?

I see as standard it is normalized at 680nm and when filtered it is normalized at 530nm. Filtered the response looks cleaned up beyond 700nm. Of more concern is the 600nm to 700nm area where the red band and clear bands are quite different between filtered and unfiltered.

Comments?

I see also the second photodiode is not currently in use, but will. When is this likely to happen and in what way? Cross reference?

I'm planning on using the sensor to look at DIY screens(painted) with respect to what effects on calibration does various paints mixes cause.

I'm actually making 2 probes, 1 as a spare, but was wondering if there is provision within the software for running a pair of probes, so 2 reference points can be resulted at the same time. Near/far or center side viewing angles.

Regards
<^..^>Smokey Joe

Our probe is still under evolution/tunning, we plan to use the second sensor at a later stage, I can't yet comment how but one usage will be to use one filterered and not other, also to do band filtering... ;)
At present you can use one or other to measure or both (to cross ref).
Beside the calibration thing, the only annoyance at the moment is some disturbance in measure due to IR. But that is only a problem on some projectors where buld tend to emit a bit too much IR. It can easily be filtered by an IR filter.


On the good news side, I can state we have made huge progress in multilanguage support ;) and also in supporting the Spyder II... There may be a version available quite soon...

--Patrice

On the good news side, I can state we have made huge progress in multilanguage support ;) and also in supporting the Spyder II... There may be a version available quite soon...

--Patrice

:D

2 Questions

Is it possible to use S2Fly w/ test patterns running from dvd player, how do I go about that?
I want to calibrate an HD CRT RPTV, do I use LCD/PROJ or CRT?
Do I remove the LCD attachment (green filter) when working w/ anything but LCD, I bought the Spyder2express?

Anyone?

I have gotten good results with the filter on for CRT RPTV. THe CRT option seems to give poor results. Use LCD mode.

Yes, you can use a DVD player to display patterns with S2fly. Play the dvd and use a pc or laptop to run S2fly and take readings.

Thanks Laric, good news with language support. My 20 year old French phrase book is only good for coffee machines and flushing toilets:D

I might get the recommended hoya CM500 as it seems to remove the IR interference.

Will have more questions I'm sure once I finish my probes, just waiting on pic flashing and the board to be made.

<^..^>

Hello everybody
On the good news side, I can state we have made huge progress in multilanguage support ;) and also in supporting the Spyder II... There may be a version available quite soon...

Actually, English support and Spyder II support are now in beta version... It works ! I think it will be soon available, and of course for free ;)

Georges

Hello everybody

Actually, English support and Spyder II support are now in beta version... It works ! I think it will be soon available, and of course for free ;)

Georges

sounds really great :D

Hello everybody

Actually, English support and Spyder II support are now in beta version... It works ! I think it will be soon available, and of course for free ;)

Georges

Sounds very great!!! Is the Beta available for the public to do some testing?

Not yet, but will be shortly ;)

--Patrice

spyder2 support will make alot of people really happy (and some less happy i could imagin)

(eagerly awaiting)

What about dtp-94 support? I have the sdk for that sensor (sold under the brand name of monaco optix XR), and it can be given away for free.

Best,
jeff

spyder2 support will make alot of people really happy (and some less happy i could imagin)
Yes, we assume so and it is also a lot handier for non DIY people.
Even thought, I'll stay with our sensor (but I assume discussions will come later) ;)

We think th software (and hardware :D) is pretty good and handy, it is likely we will have quite some chat about early multi-lingual versions as well as user interface, but trust me it is pretty cool.

What about dtp-94 support? I have the sdk for that sensor (sold under the brand name of monaco optix XR), and it can be given away for free.
Who knows... ;)

--Patrice

Hi Jeff
What about dtp-94 support? I have the sdk for that sensor (sold under the brand name of monaco optix XR), and it can be given away for free.

Well, I'm already working on it, but I'd like to have any official information about this SDK, it would ease my work ;)

Regards
Georges

Georges,
do you have the x-rite SDK? If you want it, pm me with an email address and I'll send you the tarball. This was given to me with X-rite's blessing on distributing it and/or using it however you want.

Best,
jeff

Good news, you have a PM ;)

--Patrice

You have email ;-)

jeff

Many thanks Jeff, all received... ;)

--Patrice

Thanks a lot Jeff. I will work on it next week, and try to produce a new beta version with DTP94 support.

And if anybody have other SDK for other devices, we would be very happy to work on them ;)

Georges

If you look in the tarball, I believe that there's a sample for driving the sensor. if you use toolcrib to compare to, you might see differences. We believe that they (x-rite) are using limited resolution in some of their unit conversions.

Best,
jeff

Can I use this program and a Spyder 2 Express, with a CRT projector?

Can I use this program and a Spyder 2 Express, with a CRT projector?Absolutely.

// Lyckman

What colormeters will now be supported ?


Will Spyder 2 Express work good ?

All spyder2 sensors should work. According to colorvision It's the same hardware in all packages. Allthough some claims that there is a difference in accuracy due to production accuracy and that post measurements in the factory decides on what package (eg pro, tv, express, colorfacts, etc) they end up in.

// Lyckman

Hi Lyckman

Did you enjoy HCFR colorimeter application with Spyder II and your new projector ? Was it OK ? ;)

Regards
Georges

Hi,
where i can get the software for my spyder2 :D

thx a lot 4u efforts guys!

will be a germany version available soon?

Sorry ...

when will the program supporting Spyder2 be available for download?

Petty soon, trust us... We just need a bit of feedback from beta testers...

Lets say... Later this week ;)

--Patrice

Hi Lyckman

Did you enjoy HCFR colorimeter application with Spyder II and your new projector ? Was it OK ? ;)

Regards
Georges
To be honest.. No.. Since I have not yet had the time to try it!! ;)
Sorry, but i've been busy struggling to get my Lumagen Vision HDQ to play along with my htpc/9500LC.... It went...ehrm...bad...so far and I'm all out of ideas in that area so I might just try the HCFR app right away INSTEAD.... bbl....with impressions ;)

// Lyckman

Indeed works :D
Good work guys!

// Lyckman

Question for Laric(again).

I'm having trouble finding anyone who can flash the "PIC 18f2550" microchip.
I have tried several with all saying unable to comunicate with the microchip.

Is there a specific brand name for the software that programes the chip?

I have everything else, have 3 boards and enough parts for 2 units.

I could if required build a flash programmer board. Is there a simple design that works that you recommend and also software?

Any help would be appreciated.

btw I'm in New Zealand.

Regards
<^..^>Smokey Joe

Hello,

I simply use a regular 16Fxxx flash hardware with "WinPic800" software, it is the only one able to flash 2550 with such hardware.

You can find it here : http://www.winpic800.com/index.php?lang=en

--Patrice

Hi Fenerbahce
Hi,
where i can get the software for my spyder2 :D

thx a lot 4u efforts guys!

will be a germany version available soon?
A german version is possible... technically, it's easy. But I don't speak german at all, and I don't know if there is somebody inside our development team who could do so. Maybe one day, but with no guarantee. Anyway, with the new design, anybody having a resource editor can duplicate an existing resource DLL and translate it. The plugin will work. But it will be difficult to maintain when we will make future evolutions ...

Georges

Hi,
that's really great news. Maybe i can help out a little with my German :) But i can't speak/understand French, so i have to translate all the words from English to German.

Greetings
Fener

I'm german too. So the translation should not be the problem.

BTW: great piece of software ;)

Hi Jeff
What about dtp-94 support? I have the sdk for that sensor (sold under the brand name of monaco optix XR), and it can be given away for free.

I think you will be happy to know that DTP-94 support has been included in our soft. It's now in beta, along with Spyder II and multi-language support (and other fine little stuff ;) ).

I'd like to thank you for this SDK, so if you want to test the beta version, just send me a PM with your email (you can ask to Laric too ;) ).

Best regards
Georges

Thanks Laric, I had a look at that unit, but for the cost of the parts, time and effort and possible faliure I decided to grab the PICKit 2 Starter kit.

DV1464120 PICKit 2 Starter kit (http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en023805)

I have a question about the use of the IR led on the board. Won't this flashing be an interference source of IR for the TOAS sensors?
If so would not it be better to point it to the side rather than the reflection surface?

Does the remote IR plug when used cut out the board IR led?

Regards
<^..^>Smokey Joe

The IR are only in use when you decide (in software) to use them (and so means you are using DVD to calibrate).
BTW, this IR emiter as well as the "power on" led are cut when measure are on-going ;)

--Patrice

Hello everybody,

Yesterday, I announced the existence of a beta version, and I proposed it to Jeff, to thank him for his help about finding a SDK. Now, I received many PM asking me this beta version ! I answer on the forum, because the answer is the same for everybody. I won't give this beta version to anybody. Why ? For two reasons. The first is to avoid having many different versions outside development team, with many different configuration and bugs. Even if this software is totally free, we act like professionnal software vendors, and we try to deliver the best quality level. So, we are testing before delivery, like any commercial enterprise.

The second reason is more simple: with a free software, it would be easy to break the above rule, just because it's free software... But it's just a question of days before delivery. I think you can wait until next week ;) Anyway, the product will not be complete in release 1.1: the english help file will miss. The software is already in english and french, but the documentation exists only in french... And I have no date for that.

Regards
Georges

Success! :D

Long live DIY!

Sourced the parts, flashed the chip...myself!!!, Built the probe, not bad for a complete electronics novice.

I might make a note to the developers, I saw possibly a bug whilst installing the probe on my laptop. It said there was an error whilst installing. But appears to work ok. The auto device load was extremely long before looking for drivers.

I'll try loding into a different PC and see if different.

Another note, the board files extremely useful, top marks. Although I didnt have complete job done, I had the boards made as prototype style with no solder through the holes and no layout markings to save alot of setup costs, but the no solder through the holes made it hard to mount some parts. Maybe a note to advise solder through the holes at the very least.
Live and learn.

The parts list, maybe for novices a complete reference list with farnell references would help selecting capacitors. Tolerences of components was a worry.

Something useful to add would be advise about the microchip.
In the end I used the PICKit 2 starter kit from microchip.com, but I had to struggle even from here with little knowledge of what was required.
The main issues were, device needed firmware upgrade, software required latest version and the main issue was the demo board provided does not suit the PIC18F2550.
The PIC18F series of microchips has quite a different pin layout to their smaller brothers, which the basic supplied documentaion fails to advise about. Like alot of these company's they assume the user has a vast knowledge of the devices.

anywhoo, after alot of googling I found a simple schematic layout for interfacing between the PICKit 2 USB and the microchip and at 2am after many moments it came online. :D

Many thanks to the development team for this very cool DIY tool.

Regards
<^..^>Smokey Joe

Nice ;)

We use a very simple home made flasher with WinPic800... Anyway you've done it ;)

As for circuit, I highly recommend the single layer one for DIY, it is a lot easir to make.
Dual layer was proposed to help people building their kit, using circuit that were build by a professional company (500+ were made ;))... So it has vias, holes, markings, etc...

--Patrice

I burned the PAL disc and it reads OK in my computer but my old Panasonic RV-65 says incompatible disc format and won't play it. Is there any chance that an NTSC version of the disc could be created? Has anyone tried using the getgray disc with this software? I think that has everything except for the unique near black and near white patterns.

You can use every disc that provides gray steps from 0 to 100 IRE in steps of 10 IRE.
This is enough for calibrating the whitepoint and showing a gamma plot.

The primaries can be measured with any Frame that is 100% the primary.

The 5 step scale primaries from white/gray to the primarie are not needed for the beginning. Also the near black and near white are not. These are more advanced calibrations.

It is to note that you can use the computer to generate frames (a lot easier to begin with calibration).
And also use any number of paterns, 10 (default) but more or less (you can edit the drop down)...

--Patrice

Thanks for the answers. I will probably try the getgray disc because I want to calibrate using the complete signal chain for movies from the DVD player to the TV. I am waiting for release 1.1 to work with the spider2express that I just bought but if I get too impatient I may try pasting values from S2Fly.

can we start counting the hours now :confused:

getting impatient :D

Hello, are already completely strained… :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Greeting
Everel

Hi all

Please don't be too impatient ;) The last beta version is done, full featured, and testing is running. We are working on a multi-language setup, to ease installation for non french-speaking people. And since we added a new comparison feature, it needs a little mode testing and validation ;)

If nothing goes wrong, and I really hope so, we will deliver it next week-end :D

Regards
Georges

Thanks for the answers. I will probably try the getgray disc because I want to calibrate using the complete signal chain for movies from the DVD player to the TV. I am waiting for release 1.1 to work with the spider2express that I just bought but if I get too impatient I may try pasting values from S2Fly.

I got a little inpatient and went and bought a Spyder2Express yesterday and use S2Fly to obtain the test values.

Here are the results of my first run on my Panasonic AE900U in Cinema1. All adjustments are set to zero except the brightness and contrast. I only ran the eleven value IRE test as it was getting late.

I positioned the Spyder2 facing the screen, about a foot away, below the center line of the screen and tilted up slightly for my ceiling mounted projector.

The results pleasantly surprised me being no adjustments were made.

Can't wait for this software, you guys are awesome!!!

:D :D :D

Special thanks~~!! This software will save me US$400+ buying the Spyder2express pkg instead of Spyder2TV Pro. :D

Special thanks~~!! This software will save me US$400+ buying the Spyder2express pkg instead of Spyder2TV Pro. :D

me too!
ok, then all of us should spend a few bucks and make a donation to the french guys :)

what do you think about it?

count me in

Special thanks~~!! This software will save me US$400+ buying the Spyder2express pkg instead of Spyder2TV Pro. :D
SpyderTV Pro is no way near Color HCFR in functionallity.
Consider yourself saving US$2000 instead.. (Colorfacts) ;)

// Lyckman

Any news when version 1.1 with spyper readings is coming(today, tommorow)? :)

$ or wine...you name it I'm in as well.

Any news when version 1.1 with spyper readings is coming(today, tommorow)? :)
Last time I was a bit optimistic, so lets say as planned, later this week ;)

--Patrice

Last time I was a bit optimistic, so lets say as planned, later this week ;)

--Patrice

Yes :) :) :D its coming alright!

Hi all,

Indeed, we are now testing the multi-language installer, checking for too ridiculous english words (we are all French people, please don't forget it ;) )... Anyway, the software itself seems already bug free ;)

Regards
Georges

Hello, those are really mad prospects. wait already whole hard…

greeting
everel

Ok so I was just about to pull the trigger on a SpyderTV+CalMAN and while searching for the best STV prices... I ran across this program......SWEET!

I didn't know the spyder had a blue filter on it! So I could calibrate Color and tint with the spyder instead of my THX blue filter glasses using the Getgrey Disc? Either way this is sweet and I look forward to the 1.1 release.

Just a question, with the new version with Spyder2 sensor interface built-in, do you guys take into consideration of the baffle that is attached to the sensor. Should we just leave it on for any type of source? Will do a comparison on the result between this new version against Calman once it is out.

Good job a a freeware. Very professional.

Laric, Georges, whilst I am waiting for english version I have been learning to drive the software as part french with the english addon from this thread.

Some questions and issues.

Possible bug.
The PAL DVD from the iso seems to have a fault. The saturation section has only very small primaries and secondaries pictures, like 5%of screen size. Shouldn't these be full screen size?

What is the best distance from the screen for the probe?

I am using a AE900E projector, and I start a calibration file with the AE900E thc file, do i then still need to calibrate the probe?
I note when I try a calibration of the probe using the DVD probe calibration the software/probe goes into error on white?
Should I just use default probe setting?

I am used to using the PAL DVE(nz) and was wondering about how to do the basic settings with this software.

Brightness
Contrast
Colour
Tint

Which graphs represent the above settings.


With just trying adjustments to see what happens I only see changes in the luminance graph, but I see no change in the RGB histogram from one run to next.
This is after doing the gray scale, contrast, RBG and YCM.

What colour do I do the "Measurements" run with? Black?

Since the english version is only the main programme, and the help will be in french still, could you post a basic use guide here in english to get us started?

Regards
Smokey Joe

Laric,George,
In the new version 1.1, if we do the calibration with the Spyder2 colorimeter,
will be necessary the file .thc (etalon) to calibrate it to D65?

No SpyderII ou DTP94 don't need profiles.

Profiles are only require with our probe as it did not have it's own white ref. good point being that you are then a LOT more precise ;) ...

Joe, will answer later ;)


Multilinguage / Multiprobes Release v1.1 will be available later today.
(Only French / English, build--in and on-line help not being yet translated)

--Patrice

help....Something has failed?

I keep losing communication with probe?

Although i'm not convinced the probe itself has failed as in one state it runs.

Could the AVS english addon version create bugs with software?

Conditon probe fails.
DVD references
Probe wil report lost commnication.

Condition run.
PC created references
Probe records PC screen material.

Notes.

Reinstalled probe 2 times. XP found probe and installed, system states all is well.
Reinstalled probe in different usb port, different com port, from com4 to com 5.

Same issues.

Possible problem.

When I first was looking around the software I stumbled on to the IR input page for setting DVD player codes. I worked out how to record the remote signal to the software.
After this I was running fine.
I did find that the IR was not funtioning te DVD player as the angle to farand I don't have the remoter IR lead yet.
So I was manually forwarding the DVD references when the software asked.

The probe did suddenly stop funtioning.
I unpluged the probe to clear the fault, seemed to run after that.

Next time, later that day to learn more about calibration the above fault occured and I cannot get it to run with the DVD reference as a condition.

I suddenly thought maybe it needs the IR reference reprogrammed after the probe was reinstalled. But now what is weird is I cannot find any reference to the IR input section anywhere within the software???

If something in the IR curcuit has failed why would that disable the software input section?
Does the IR reference data need to be entered for the DVD reference material to run.
Seems odd to me to have such a condition.

Any suggestions?

If it occurs again, open it and press "reset" ;)

--Patrice

Hi Smokey Joe

Depending on the options defined in the HCFR sensor parameter box, measurement time can be quite long, or short. And the probe adjusts automatically measure time regarding luminance. So, when measuring blackness, with a high contrast projector, from far away, with more precise options (interlaced mode, two sensors used), you can easily exceed timeout, which is 40000 ms by default. First try to increase this timeout, and remove all precision checks (use one sensor, no interlace, fast measures).

Regards
Georges

PS: for calibration files: when using a calibration file, DO NOT calibrate sensor again: it would replace conversion matrix, meaning the previous calibration file selection becomes useless. Additivity check failure is not necessarily a problem. It depends on projector spectrum. Some projector have no additivity trouble, some other have. We don't know exactly why, but even if some of our calibration files have been built with additivity errors, they are all checked and guaranteed to match precisely results given by a spectrophotometer.

Hello,

Thise interested in Release 1.1 of out software, I'd suggest you look here (http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php) ;)

Enjoy !

--HCFR Colormeter Team

Hello,

Thise interested in Release 1.1 of out software, I'd suggest you look here (http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php) ;)

Enjoy !

--HCFR Colormeter Team


WOOHOO!!!

Thanks so much for all or your hard work. :D:D

It'll be a weekend of calibration for me. :P

Where to I send the wine????? Txs for the hard work..

great :)
many thanks

Congrulations !

good work.
I test'it on a German machine.

Nobi

I loaded 1.1 on an XP machine. I copied the cvspyder.dll into the same directory as the exe file, and it worked fine, except reading the red primary.What version of cv_spyder.dll are you using?

// Lyckman

Thank you very much for the english version, just installed and managed to reset probe. I think I managed to deselect the probe with all my searching through the pull downs. Now in english i see why. :o

It does seem easy to upset the probe through a reselection or timing issue.
I wonder if an error check be added with the timing schedule.

ie, If the probe fails to collect measurement before delay runs out.
warning msg "Probe did not complete measurements before delay time finished, add more delay time or lower probe settings."

If the light level is very low, like measuring low blacks does the time to collect take longer?

I suspect if light levels are too low, if the probe is too far from the source for example the probe will not measure any useful readings, or if the conditions are too high in lux the sensor could overload. Again poor readings would result.
If the clear sensor could be used to measure lux as a whole then the probe could validate distance/lux levels.


Any comments about the reference DVD saturation files?
I'm downloading a fresh iso and will burn a new DVD incase I have an old version by accident.

regards
Smokey Joe

Hi
I loaded 1.1 on an XP machine. I copied the cvspyder.dll into the same directory as the exe file, and it worked fine, except reading the red primary. Blue and green work fine, all secondaries work, and RGB tracking reports red readings. Any ideas? I have attached pdfs of the data.
I think you found a bug... I examined your pdfs, and I think I understand the reason of the problem. Your TT have very low light level on red component, which cannot be detected by the Spyder II. So, it returns a minus one value for Z. I do not know much about cvspyder.dll interface... I developped it like a blind, because I do not have any Spyder by myself, another people in the team was testing my devs, unfortunately on a LCD screen.

Well, cwspyder returned to me a integer value of minus one, I considered it as an unsigned int, then divided by 1000 to have a floating point value. I didn't handle the case of the minus one value, thinking it couldn't be less than zero.

To have good value, you must ensure your Spyder II receive enough red light to send positive value to our software. Try setting a longer read time value in sensor parameters, or having your sensor less far away from your TT.

Anyway, I will produce a little fix for that next week.

Regards
Georges

Do I need calibrate Spyder II before taking measurements? If so, how to do it?

Thank you very much for the english version, just installed and managed to reset probe. I think I managed to deselect the probe with all my searching through the pull downs. Now in english i see why. :o

It does seem easy to upset the probe through a reselection or timing issue.
I wonder if an error check be added with the timing schedule.
Never got any problem of that sort (about 600 Hundred built so far ;)), but I guess we may discover some new problems spreading software and probe to a wider audience.
Reset basically reboot/reload the probe soft. nothing else.

ie, If the probe fails to collect measurement before delay runs out.
warning msg "Probe did not complete measurements before delay time finished, add more delay time or lower probe settings."

If the light level is very low, like measuring low blacks does the time to collect take longer?.
This is handled by probe embedeb software, Basically it does 16 measure then remove extremes and average, if it cannot get 16 (very low blacks) it did timeout after 30 seconds and outbut average value of measurement it have done so far (can be anything from none to 16).

So answer is yes, measurement time can go from 30seconds (extreme black like CRTs) to few milliseconds (high white).

I suspect if light levels are too low, if the probe is too far from the source for example the probe will not measure any useful readings, or if the conditions are too high in lux the sensor could overload. Again poor readings would result.
If the clear sensor could be used to measure lux as a whole then the probe could validate distance/lux levels.
Well, again we did not really have such reports, but could be possible in extreme condition.

You must try to have the best dynamic possible... It usually mean sensor facing screen at about 70 cm to 1 meter. Then you measure Gammut (RGB)... and check values return (chosing "Probe values" on display). Trey to see what you get, there must be a good separation on each RGB value (ie "300" for R and B when having about 4000 or more for G (measuring G)).
Then move sensor to see if it increase or not dynamic.

Can you upload your .chc here ? (or send me an email).

Any comments about the reference DVD saturation files?
I'm downloading a fresh iso and will burn a new DVD incase I have an old version by accident.
As stated in dicumentation (sorry it is in French), saturation measurement is a recent feature and may not be fully ok... Although I think it is ok...

--Patrice

Thanks alot for those that worked on version 1.1, this is a great software!

This window don't work:
*Combined histogram for free measures

HHolic, yes it does work, try running the "Measures" and it takes real time measurements, very nice feature :) .

Thanks Laric for your responses. I'll do a run on my projector tonight and post the results, I am seeing some odd things so far and was wondering if my build quality could effect the results.

I have been doing test runs on my laptop LCD screen, with the probe within 10mm from surface to eliminate ambient light.

I am curious though about the starting point without a reference file and making a calibration upon a screen that is probably out of calibration.
How are the reference files made? Do they come as they are from the manufactures, or are they created from reference material infomation and you have made them to suit this software?
If so on the second point where do you find such references to create a reference library of items like my PC LCD screen and and friends projectors that are not in the current list.

I also found the DVD iso version i am currently using is v1.1.3 andI saw that the one on the web site listed above with new 1.1 software is v1.1.4 iso.
I have downloaded that and test that tonight for bugs.

This looks like a great solution for those like me who want a grayscale calibration without the high cost! I was wondering if the help files will be translated to english, cause I don't know where to begin. I don't have my Spyder yet, but will soon. Any tutorials for noobs like me out there?

Hi
I just rechecked the Spyder2 with CalMan and it is working correctly on this monitor. I extended the time to 5000 ms using Rec709, D65, Gamma 2.2, Cal mode CRT, and extend for dark measurements. Now I cannot even replicate the earlier readings. I'll wait and try your bug fix and see how that goes.

I think you could help me fix that. If you can find conditions where you reproduce the problem easily, I'd like to have the XYZ values returned by Calman, or any other software using Spyder ;). I want to be sure cvspyder.dll returns a -1, and know how this -1 is interpreted: turned into zero, or used as -0.001

Thanks for your help
Georges

Hi
This looks like a great solution for those like me who want a grayscale calibration without the high cost! I was wondering if the help files will be translated to english, cause I don't know where to begin. I don't have my Spyder yet, but will soon. Any tutorials for noobs like me out there?
We will produce an English help file... but it's a long work, and we are not an enterprise, we all do that during our free time ;)

Anyway, we hope having this full english documentation for early 2007... You have to be patient... If you are not, maybe you can find information in other software documentation... I think you can download demo versions of commercial products and read explanation... A luminance histogram, RGB histogram, CIE chart and other concepts are the same for every body. If you understand the concepts, you can use any software ;)

Regards
Georges

cool, thanks

Can this new HCFR software be used with a Spyder2 to calibrate an LCD projector?

With Spyder II express, comes a UserGuide. PDF file that includes Pro. Seems to help with HCFR, but I'm a new to this as well.

A very nice piece of software!

I used it to do some quit measurements with my SPyder2. I noticed that the read time of the ‘IRE 30’ during a 10 step grey scale measurement is very short, about 1 second.

And I would like to put something on the ‘wish list’. It would be nice to see the average gamma as a numeric value. Now I have to switch to logarithmic and hover my mouse over the average gamma line to get a numeric value.

Keep up the good work!!

Gr, Bastiaan

Thanks you all for your support :D

I am curious though about the starting point without a reference file and making a calibration upon a screen that is probably out of calibration.
How are the reference files made? Do they come as they are from the manufactures, or are they created from reference material infomation and you have made them to suit this software?
If you don't have reference/profile for your projector, the software will then consider your white as being ok (D65). Obviously it may not be the case and then you will have to keep in mind that triyng to have RGB levels exactly stacked ir not necessary ok... Apart from this all other stuff is not dependent on profile.

Obviously this is only for our probe others don't need reference/profiles.

Our proble don't (yet) use any filtering on sensors, and as each light source has it's own caracteristics we have to build a reference/profile. This is basically done by measuring a given projector with a high precision spectrophotometer and our probe, then building a conversion matrix.

--Patrice

When I calibrate my CRT RP HDTV, do I remove the filter attachment on the Spyder2?

When I calibrate my CRT RP HDTV, do I remove the filter attachment on the Spyder2?

That's what i like to know as wel?

Peter

Hi, there is a few bugs within the PAL DVD iso's, both v1.1.3 and v1.1.4

v1.1.3

The saturation section of RGB and CMY are not full screen,16:9, they look like small clickable icons.

All other sections seem ok.

v1.1.4

The Saturation section.

RGB 16:9 and all ok.

Cyan is in 4:3

Magenta is in 4:3

Yellow is ok 16:9

Niveaux de gris complimentaries

0=>4 all crash stop the DVD

96=>100 all crash stop the DVD

This appears to be all the bugs I can find within the DVD.

My setup.

Panansonic HT520 Player
Component cables
Panasonic AE900E

DVD made with an LG GSA4167B and imgBurn software.

Ok, I was wondering if there is a way to reference the probe to know if it is working as it should be. I have noticed 1 of the 2 sensors measures at different speeds. Also I can't seem to get my Laptop measurements to work and this makes me wonder if my probe is not working correctly.

My Acer laptop chc is attached to this post.

I was wondering about a DIY reference tool using LEDs, say RGB and maybe white iluminating at a given voltage.

Oh and I have noticed also one reason my probe drops from time to time. When my laptop does a cache the probe can lose connection if this happens whilst the softare and probe are making a measurement.

Regards
Smokey Joe

Joe, you clearly have a problem with your probe... RGB should be close to each reference...
Sensors values are too close (green almost identical) that is not normal.
(I assume you are measuring in dark room without any other light than your projector or screen).

Can you try measure with second sensor ? (although it may not change as they are almost in parallel.

As for DVD, I never use it, so won't be of good help, AFAIK 1.1.3 should be ok, the saturation is known to be wrong (you must change menu prior starting mesure to have full screen ones) That was suposed to be fixed in 1.1.4, but looks like there is other problems with it (it is pretty recent) we will check.

--Patrice

I just got a spyder 2 express, and I am new to this whole calibration thing.

I was wondering if I should calibrate with the spyder filter on or off? Also I have a Panasonic 50phd8uk plasma screen, which configuration profile should I use (it look like most of them are for projectors)?

I beleive you keep the filter on.

I just got a spyder 2 express, and I am new to this whole calibration thing.

I was wondering if I should calibrate with the spyder filter on or off? Also I have a Panasonic 50phd8uk plasma screen, which configuration profile should I use (it look like most of them are for projectors)?
I think in Rader's spreadsheet thread it was said to always use the spider with the filter in place.

There are several places to get info before attempting to use sophisticated calibration software like HCFR.

The getgray read-me is a good starting place:
http://www.calibrate.tv/docs/GetGrayCalDiscReadme.zip

Rader's spreadsheet thread has a great deal of info on calibrating with a Spyder calorimeter:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6295533&&#post6295533

The documentation for the pro-level accucal software is available for download at their site:
http://www.accucal.org/i1PRODCS%20Docs.htm

The FAQ thread talks mainly about using disks like Avia for calibrating TV's with CRT technology but it still has some useful information:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=585527

Many thanks to the HCFR team. The software worked great for me to calibrate my Sony LCD RPTV (KDF-E50A10) using a spider2express with the getgray DVD as the source. Just a fantastic piece of software.

When I calibrate my CRT RP HDTV, do I remove the filter attachment on the Spyder2?
Anyone? I know other programs specify to leave filter on but who knows if HCFR uses a different profile or different conversion values.

quick question for those with spyder2: does the included software have the /support switch? I'd like to use it to imput data into radar's spreadsheet for comparison.

I broke my probe :( You were right Laric, 1 sensor was not responding to RGB only luminance, I could tell by running the real time meter, very nice addition by the way.....but I then went and retouched the solder to make sure of contacts.
Now neither sensor will calibrate and the real time graph shows no readings for RGB for both sensors, only luminance :mad: :( :( :(

This may be the reason my probe kept dropping aswell.

Looking with a 10x magnifiy glass I could not see damage on sensors from overheat.

What to do?

I have enough parts to build another, but I couldn't quite get the same looking Caps as the pictures show. The same values though,Ceramic type, just different color to yours. I did check with a electronics chap, he thought they would be ok.

I could just build another, but would really like to find the fault with current so if i caused the fault I don't repeat the error.

Short of desoldering each componet is there a way to check vital parts for error?

Any suggestions Laric, George?

Smokey Joe :(

quick question for those with spyder2: does the included software have the /support switch? I'd like to use it to imput data into radar's spreadsheet for comparison.
Yes, it appears to. I uninstalled my old SpyderTV program but left the desktop link for the support switch. And then I installed my new SpyderTV PRO software, and the support switch function still operates, and it also shows that it's doing so with the new SpyderTV PRO software.

How do you use spyder 2 express to calibrate a front projector when it does not come with the tripod holder? I assume you need to position the probe in front of the screen somehow?

Hi !!

I have just carried out my first calibration and the results are very good apart from my gamma. All other graphs look OK but gamma not. When i was trying to fix it pic quality decreased. Maybe any one here all ready have used this software to calibrate plasma screen. BTW I am using Spyder2 sensor.

Thanks PJ…is the calibration software ready yet in English, I checked the website and it still says French only? If there is a link to the update, could someone please post it?

Hi !!

I have just carried out my first calibration and the results are very good apart from my gamma. All other graphs look OK but gamma not. When i was trying to fix it pic quality decreased. Maybe any one here all ready have used this software to calibrate plasma screen. BTW I am using Spyder2 sensor.
For plasma screens, you should use 10% window patterns. I recognize above graph as readings from full field?

For some reason, is the power-supply in plasma screens almost always under-dimensioned...

// Lyckman

Yes !!
That is true, I was using full screen test patterns. Why was there such a diffrence ?? Do you know if I should use a filter like the one for LCD screens or take it off like for calibrating CRT ???
Thank you in advance for any help !!
And for those guys who developed this software - THANK YOU very much !!! Great Job !!!

thanks

Someone told me it is due to the power supplies, in most plasmas cannot provide enough current to drive all cells to 100% luminance simultainously. What you see in the gamma-curve is the device "clipping" at higher levels.

According to colorvision, the spyder2 sensor should always have the baffle (filter) mounted, independent of display type.

// Lyckman

Hey folks,

Can anyone tell me what am I doing wrong?... Can't seem to get the latest
software to read my Spyder probe correctly... The same probe works great
with the Spyder "support" option and S2fly. The real time "Measures"
always shows x=0 y=1.

Here's the settings I'm using:

File -> New -> DVD Manual -> Spyder II
Model -> Defaut
Calib Mode -> PROJ

Tried both cvspyder version 4.0.0.5 and 4.1.0.1


Any ideas?

Hi Again !!
Those are my graphs after few hours of tweaking. Any suggestions how to make it totally flat ??

Thanks

Can someone please confirm this. I want to calibrate my set.
When I calibrate my CRT RP HDTV, do I remove the filter attachment on the Spyder2?

lukassk, seems pretty good, we usually try to be in the 3 DeltaE target, you are close...
Can you post the .chc file ?

As for other questions re Spyder (or DTP 94) I cannot answer I don't have any of those probes...

--Patrice

According to colorvision, the spyder2 sensor should always have the baffle (filter) mounted, independent of display type.

// Lyckman
HDHolic,

I'll quote myself.. some posts up...

// Lyckman

Thank you ;)

You can replace your dll by the above one... BTW, a v1.11 is now available on our page : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php

--Patrice

Hi PJ

There is another change in the setup: in the french help file, there was a useless link to a page on our website... Every time you opened the help, you had an internet access... for nothing. Except that, the content is exactly the same, so we didn't change the software version (except the setup one).

Regards
Georges

Regarding the baffle/filter for the sensor,

I could not found it, but there was a post in this forum regarding this. I don't remember if it was from a mail conversation with colorvision regarding the matter or if it was a colorvision representative that answeared in the thread.

If I use the sensor without the filter when I calibrate my crt-pj the result is not good at all. And the luminance values reported is not realistic.

// Lyckman

How do I measure ANSI contrat?

Super travail les gars !!

should the filter be left on for rear projection (HD DILA in my case)? And what setting should be applied for the Spyder2 (CRT, Default, LCD, Proj)?

Hey,

Got it working today!!!! Great piece of software and thanks to the dev team
for all their hard work. Your efforts are sincerely appreciated.

After playing around with the initial configuration, I think my original problem
may have been caused by selecting PROJ instead of LCD for the Calibration
mode. It seems when PROJ is selected, I don't get anything from the spyder
probe. By simply switching to LCD calibration mode, the probe works as
expected.

I decided to go with the latest version (1.11) and things are working great.. I
use both calman and SpyderTV Pro but think I'll be switching to HCFR as my
new calibration tool. The front end GUI and features are superior to the others.

Thanks again!!!

Hmmm, interesting software. Nice, gonna try it.

Hi laric !!!

Here it is my file. Have look maybe u can advise me how to make it even better :)

Nice results !

I'd strongly encourage you (all) to measure RGB (we will then see the gammut) as well as secondary (YMC). I dunno your setup but I think you are pretty close to something well calibrated.

Also "Near Black" and "Near White" should help to fine tune your details (white crush and black details).

--Patrice

Thanks for reply !!

I am calibrating plasma screen. Someone all ready said something about Delta E. Could anyone one explain how this affects picture ? Any ideas how to lower it in 20 to 50 range. ??

Thanks

Here are my results after testing the program with my LCD monitor which has limited adjustability. How is near black, near white luminance adjusted? Also I wanted to point out that secondary colors are not registered in Saturation-luminace window. What about that?

Delta E is simply the differences between RGB levels, if your RGB are on top of each other, your Delta E is close to zero...

I dunno what setting you have on your plasma, if any, try to increase the R & B gain. need to raise a bit R & B levels on 20-40 range.

--Patrice

I am in good position as my plasma have all the setting I need (gains, cuts, RGB, CMY color settings) Also my dvd player have 10 point gamma setting plus black level and white level setting. I will try your advice later as I have no laptop and have to carry all the bits and pieces of my computer downstairs :eek:

Here's what I've gleaned from using and reading about the Spyder2 sensors.

Do NOT take off the filter, unless the software specifically asks you to. Normal mode is too keep the filter on.

The low limit for the spyder sensor is .02 cdm^2.

Here's what I've gleaned from using and reading about the Spyder2 sensors.

Do NOT take off the filter, unless the software specifically asks you to. In that mode, the sensor will match itself to the scan rate of the display. Normal mode is too keep the filter on.

The low limit for the spyder sensor is .02 cdm^2.

Are you refering to SpyderTV software or any calibrating software, including HCFR?

Hi HDholic

HCFR software will never ask you to remove the filter... We do not know exactly how to use the Spyder II probe... We just assume it returns correct values. I suppose a good advice would be to keep the filter on, and use the LCD calibration mode for everything except CRT, which need CRT calibration mode. That's all I can say.

Georges

Hey all,
I've seen this question many times on the forum, and I ran into the same problems with ColorVision Tech support - you get different answers depending on who you talk to. If you're using the Spyder to do your greyscales and are NOT running Colorvision/Datacolor software, the baffle stays ON for all displays - CRT, LCD, projectors. (I did the DataColor ISF training, and the ISF pros who use this probe with Colorfacts also leave the baffle ON for everything). BUT - if you are running Spyder software (SpyderTV, Spyder2PRO) and are NOT getting into the Service Menu and adjusting drives/cuts, because these programs are designed to adjust only "user controls", follow the instructions given by the software. (In SpyderTV, I think they leave the baffle ON; in Spyder2PRO I think it's OFF for CRT computer monitors). I did a quick check of the HCFR software with my Spyder2, CRT displays, baffle ON, and the results match the reads from other calibration software.
Dan

Based on above, I'd bet it will be with filter on...

BTW, it'll be interesting to have a post of .chc files with and without filter... :D

--Patrice

1) Unless you have an older Spyder, all of the probes are the same. The only difference is the color they spray onto the unit.
2) I'd bet that HCFR simply imports the data from the probe into their spreadsheet. If true, then all readings should be done with baffle ON.

You can always do the simple experiment: Display a white field on your TV. I'm betting that it will look... um... white. (If it looks RED, or BLUE, or CYAN, you're seriously out of calibration). Read this field with the Spyder and HCFR software, and look at the x,y numbers. They should be fairly close to .313, .329 (+/- .02 is not unreasonable). Take off the baffle and re-read the same field. You're likely to see x go to .430 or higher... Replace the baffle, re-read, and you'll see that this set-up is closer to reality. (Of course, you can also calibrate with baffle off - you should see that the grey scale is REALLY FAR off of grey, even though you meter reads .313, .329.

I would be interested in seeing if there are any corrections(ie, offsets...) built into HCFR for specific display types. Has anyone looked at different display types?
Dan

I now have both the Spyder2 and DTP-94 Sensor at hand.
I also have a Plasma display, a LCD display, CRT display, a DLP pj and a CRT pj.

I will try to go down to the bottom of this baffle/no baffle issue using Color HCFR.

// Lyckman

just did that myself

there is NO WAY you can set it to CRT and use it WITH the baffle
if you set it to LCD with baffle readings are close to crt-without baffle

this is monitor-X measured CRT - NO BAFFLE (hcfr 1.1)
http://home.quicknet.nl/mw/prive/losha/spyder2 hcfr/b - 110 - rgb - crt - nofi.jpg

this is monitor-X measured CRT - NO BAFFLE (hcfr 1.11)
http://home.quicknet.nl/mw/prive/losha/spyder2 hcfr/b - 111 - rgb - crt - nofi.jpg

this is monitor-X measured LCD - WITH BAFFLE (hcfr 1.11)
http://home.quicknet.nl/mw/prive/losha/spyder2 hcfr/c - 111 - rgb - lcd - fi.jpg

this is monitor-X measured CRT - WITH BAFFLE (hcfr 1.11)
http://home.quicknet.nl/mw/prive/losha/spyder2 hcfr/c - 111 - rgb - crt - fi.jpg

this is monitor-X measured LCD - NO BAFFLE (hcfr 1.11)
http://home.quicknet.nl/mw/prive/losha/spyder2 hcfr/c - 111 - rgb - lcd - nofi.jpg

if anyone has calibrated his 'whatever' @ CRT with baffle .. i don't wanna see that :D

(monitor-X is sort of profiled by spyder2 software... how well of a job that software does don't you DISagree :eek: )

What was changed in V1.11 that caused noticeable difference in readings from V1.1 @ lower IRE's?

that was just a few post's ago, come on

Ok, I found the info, sometimes it's hard to keep up w/ frequent posts u know...

Thanks Losha!

I'm glad I took a short peak in the thread before doing all this boring stuff..
Now I can focus on Spyder2 vs DTP-92 instead!

// Lyckman

Just a word to tell you we simply use values that probes (either Spyder or DTP94) returns nothing is applied to them...

Afaik it works well, one guy in team use to build profiles (for our probe), he have Spyder, DTP94 and some more professional ones; all results are in perfect sync (each probes having their pro and cons as well as different level of precision)

--Patrice

Well i built a second probe today....another dead duck, man I took hours going slowly and surely, the sensors I was twice as careful, not to overheat them. The first probe did seem to work at first, then failed, but the probe still runs the led and I can programme the IR led. The second probe just fails to work all together.
I checked the PICs and they are fine, even reflashed them verifyed the programming, checked the curcuits...fine, eveything is in the right place, resistors correct values, the only thing i can think the issue is, is different brand of capacitors. Slightly different voltage ratings, but they are meant to be voltage and value independant, ie voltage doesnt really matter.

The electro is a is a 16v 100uf, polar orientated as per the photographs and drawings.
The 100nf i have, on the bag, Cap Cer y5u 100n 50v 20%
The 33pf I have, on the bag, Cap Cer NPO 33p 50v 10%

I couldn't find anything that remotely looked the same as the ones in the photos, only the rating values. I checked these with electronics ppl and they thought they would be fine.

sigh. so frustrating. I moded PC boards with voltage mods which were more daunting, but worked fine. Really puzzled whats going wrong here as everything appears straight forward??

ANy ideas? Laric, George?

laric- it would be interesting if you post your comments on each probe your team currently uses! Pros, Cons, Precision difference...

A quick comparison, Spyder II vs XRite DTP-94 (Monaco Optics XR)
* HCFR v 1.11
* Both sensors mounted 30 cm from 225 cm wide 1.0 gain screen (a little to the left, facing center screen)
* pj Samsung SP-H710A. Factory preset user1 ("Joe Kane D65 preset").

http://www.lyckman.se/colorhcfr/Spyder_vs_XRite.jpg

chc-files:
Spyder II (http://www.lyckman.se/colorhcfr/Color_spyder_user1_sph710.chc)
DTP-94 (http://www.lyckman.se/colorhcfr/Color_dtp94_user1_sph710.chc)

// Lyckman

Wow, Spyder2 is way off 0-40IRE!

yowza, is that typical of the Spyder2?

Not too surprising ;)... HD Holic, our purpose is not to compare really... That require some work and could depend conditions (CRT, LCD, DLPs....) but as anyone can imagine an SpectroMeter would be a more accurate than usual colormeters... (by design)... etc...

Also keep in mind that sub 30IRE are pretty hard to measure.

This is a whole subject in itself and not the purpose of that very thread...

--Patrice

The results you posted seem to indicate poor low IRE readings. In other words, you should be measuring out of the projector for accurate low IRE readings, instead of on the screen. You use a screen RGB(?) offset to keep the PJ and screen calibrated as a system. This way, if the screen pushes a certain color, you still get accurate results when calibrating out of the projector.

See here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8605066&&#post8605066

Any chance we could get this feature added? An option to input screen offset so we can measure directly out of the projector?

More here, on how to add a feature to calculate screen offset:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8197084&&#post8197084

I would love to see both of these features in your software. Excellent contribution to the community, by the way. I'd feel compelled to donate some too, if you were to set up a PayPal account.

Joe, your caps are fines.

I understand it is pretty frustrating, this probe is usually no brainer to build, I have made about twenty DIY version (prototypes) and then we've build more than 500 of them without a single problem...

I'd suggest you go back to basics, checks wiring, short circuits, measure DC lines, etc... Schematic will help you (you can download pdf here : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/Sonde_2/HCFR_Sonde_USB_Schema.pdf

I can propose to look at your probes but they'll have to travel a bit ;)

--Patrice

I would really like to find the issue so others may avoid the same. I am beginning to wonder about specific variations between components avaliable to you(France) and to me(NZ)(Could be the France vs All black effect :D ).
Although not with standing my build quality, I did source the farnell referenced parts from farnell, plus Switches 947-1707, 4mhz quartz 971-2283, bc547 1097287.


anyway, in my fiddling the second unit has suddenly come to life, well the green led is going and the software recognized that this one has no IR programming yet. So it is communicating atleast.

I can ask the sensors for version which returns 5.1 for both units.

At first I could calibrate the first unit, well without reported error and any measurement could have been wrong. Probably was as per your comment about results.

Now when I try to calibrate both sensors they have addivity errors. Typically.

Bad addivity for Red: 9323 instead of 12149(-23.3%)

I would really like to find root cause, but before I send you the 2 probes for examination I would like to exaust any tests you could suggest I could try.

Could a small self test programme be writtern to look for issues like low voltage or irregular voltage and chip function?

Could you examine a working sensor and give me test points of typical voltages.
I tested for main voltage after usb connection and returned 5v.


Regards
Smokey Joe

PS I had the 2nd probe die again, found if it can die unplugging then replugging probe 2, where probe 1 can be pluged unpluged without problems.
I held the reset whilst plugging in the 2nd probe and that reset the probe.
I also got the RGB to respond again in probe 1 by doing the same reset option.
I can get tracking by running "measures" in real time in both probes and can deviate the signal by altering what is on the screen, but cannot get either to calibrate without addivity errors. Errors can sometimes go RED green or Blue depending on range from LCD screen. Generally Red though.

Could this be noise with to high a tolerence capacitors, 10% and 20%.
I might alter one with the CMS 1206 100nf (which i sourced today) across the TAOS sensors.
What do you think?

Question
Looking at Preferences>Reference panel, there is RGB Levels 0-255 or 16-235. What's the difference, when would one or the other be used?

Wow... just came across this thread... can't wait to try it. I have CalMan and SpyderTVPro... has anyone compared results between them?

Question
Looking at Preferences>Reference panel, there is RGB Levels 0-255 or 16-235. What's the difference, when would one or the other be used?


Not totally certain, but I think that refers to setting true black as either 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE. If so, I think most calibrations are done at 7.5

I asked Colorvision about the filter onthe Spyder2. Here is their response:

LCD's = ON
CRT's = OFF
Bob Cocciolillo
ColorVision Customer Support - USA

Lee - I assume you are saying to leave the filter ON even for CRTs based on your own experience calibrating CRT systems, and not because some other thread said so. What did you observe that provides better calibration if the filter is left ON during calibration of a CRT monitor or projector?

I am not one to take any OEM recommendation as written in stone, , since many of them do not think of the home theater market as their target market, but I am also painfully aware that some of the advise freely given in this forum is not based on personal experience, and is at best "theoretical" or cloned from some other opinion. I want to learn from those with firsthand experience, if possible, so please pardon me for asking about your personnal experience in this manner.

With Spyder2Pro or Spyder2Express, the software will tell you to take the filter off when calibrating a CRT display. SpyderTV does not. From what I've read over at the CALMAN forum about the spyder2 probe, when you turn on CRT(direct view, not RPTV), the sensor will sync to the scan rate of the display. I don't know why. The readings will be different with and without the filter.

I have used SpyderTV since it first came out, and it always sets white too high, and black too low. Tint and Color seem to work out fine though. I've been using CALMAN to calibrate my Hitachi CRT RPTV with the Spyder2 probe, and it's been worth the time to use it. When I tried it on a direct view TV, I thought the results were more accurate without the filter on, even though SpyderTV never says to remove it for any display type.

The HCFR software looks great so far, I've just not had time to sit down and try it out. Maybe over the long Thanksgiving weekend.

I think that if there is to be any further support of the Spyder2 unit, the writers may have to contact Colorvision and possibly sign an NDA to get the hooks they need into cvspyder.dll.

Laric,
To calibrate projectors DLP with Spyder2,
what Calibration mode I have to select, LCD or PROJ?

Hi HDholic
Question
Looking at Preferences>Reference panel, there is RGB Levels 0-255 or 16-235. What's the difference, when would one or the other be used?
This reference is used when displaying patterns. The RGB values sent to PC graphic card are either 16-235 or 0-255. That's useful in many cases. When the PC is your usual source, depending on your settings (software/overlay, etc), you must calibrate using either 0-255 or 16-235, to match actual settings. If you calibrate with the wrong setting, your image will be really poor.
Another example, when calibrating an HDMI input, for another source than the PC (DVD player), if this source sends only 16-235, you may want to calibrate it with the PC linked to the projector instead of the DVD player, to make calibration process easier and faster. The PC must be configured to send the same RGB scale than the DVD player.

Regards
Georges

Hi fpr
Laric,
To calibrate projectors DLP with Spyder2,
what Calibration mode I have to select, LCD or PROJ?
For DLP projector, you should use the LCD mode. DLP spectrum is closer to LCD spectrum than CRT spectrum (that's logical, they use the same technology for lamps ;) )

Georges

Yes :D

And don't forget to use 10% or 20% or small (I don't reckon how we translate) patterns when using a CRT Projector... ;)

--Patrice

Yes :D

And don't forget to use 10% or 20% or small (I don't reckon how we translate) patterns when using a CRT Projector... ;)

--Patrice
Hmm.. I always use full field on my CRT pj.. The difference in luminance is very small, about 2%...

// Lyckman

Hi Laric, any comments about my 226 post?

Hi Joe,

I really don't think your have any components troubles, it is pretty unlikely.

Software cannot be done to check the hardware, but a good indicator is the green (or whatever color you choose) LED... When lighted, it means the CPU (PIC) works fine, the USB driver and pc link is ok and obviously minimal wirring is ok.
Then, using software, version checking of prob. also fully validate link.

The only remaining are the IR leds, we don't care they are not vital (only use to instruct a DVD player), you can even remove them and associated components if you have any doubt... Second, remaining "bit" are the two sensors...

The only way to test them is to measure something, idealy RGB (gammut)... you have a debug mode that fill in the "decoder.log" file in app dir to help (us) debuging.

There is no problem in plugging/unplugging many times (done it thousands of times here ;)).
If the led did not light (in fact intermitent) when plugged, please reset the proble (lower button)... That wil "reboot" the pic and should sort out connection problem (assuming driver is there). Also have in mind driver installation is required on each USB port you plug the probe (each have their own signature) but XP should warn you anyway.

When the probe lights, start software and chose to not use any profile but do your calibration... after RGB, white and black, acknoledge the additivity and do RGB + YMC measures. (prior, go in probe setup and activate the debug)

I'd suggest you try this and send me your .chc and decoder log files...

--Patrice

Hi Laric, thanks for response.

I will create a chc and log file for each probe tonight.

Although I have basically fumbled my way to the final part you have stated to calibrate the probes against my PC LCD screen. In this case I cannot calibrate as both report the Red addivity errors as typically "Bad addivity for Red: 9323 instead of 12149(-23.3%)"

I can't imagion I overheated the second probe sensors as I tried to balance the melting of solder and connection time to the lowest possible. Although it is still possible.

I played around with runs grey scale and colors without calibration to see if sensors respond to changes and it appears they do.

Could this be all IR interference?
Out of interest I happen to have a 880nm narrow band IR emitter which I use for head tracking hardware and pointed that at the sensors and they respond.
I'll also create a "measure" log which will track the realtime response to this.

I will be watching movies on Friday so will do a run using the AE900E calibration file aswell. I might be able to borrow a correction filter by then aswell.


Regards
Smokey Joe

Patrice

Tkx a lot for the software.
Though I get some very slight different reading using this program over Spyder2 colorimeter. They are fairly insignificant. The user interface is more friendly then all other apps I tried and gets me faster to the point. I Love it. If there are features I can think of that can imporove the value of the app, they would be: addition of screen offset, longer reading time for Spyder Pod, and support for Eye1Pro :)

Re color accuracy of spyder pod in the low IRE, my experience reflect your graphs. When measuring colors with Y<12, I get incorrect x,y values. And this can be easily seen visually without even using reference spectroradiometer. on my pod for instance, I get noticable color shift towards red after calibration when doing measurements with Y <12. Hence the important need of Screen offset and emissive mode.
Yet for gamma tracking, The pod Y sensitivity succesfully go much lower then 12 and the 0.02 advertised value is possible.

Thanks The Cow...

We have same experience on probes ;) And that's a reason we work hard on our one to try doing better on sub 30IRE reading... (and acheive more than expected ;))

Joe, with IR filter, our probe (well the sensors) can measure IR and that obviously impact results... Some projectors bulbs do have large IR emition and then perturb measure.
I'd encourage you to use an IR filter in such case.

--Patrice

Patrice,

Are you folks working on an English Help file? I'd really appreciate that and hopefully others might as well. It looks like your Help section is very good but unfortunately I can't read it. I figure it will be faster for you to translate it than for me to learn how to read French! :)

Wayne

Hi Wayne

We are working on it. But it takes time, and our time is precious ;) And we also have quite much work on the next release ;)

Anyway, English help file is on the grill, but I can't give you a firm release date for it.

Regards
Georges

Georges,

Did you have a chance to compare the accuracy of your DYI probe with Spyder2?

I think if people here knew that it offers better calibration than Spyder probe, then more of them would be made here.
I know we are all very excited about the software, but no one has really discussed the pros and cons of the actual DYI probe. Your personal opinion would be greatly appreciated. :)

Hi Laric, George.

I can't say more how fantastic this DIY software and hardware is. You guys deserve much credit for something which alot of ppl would turn into big bucks for their pockets; you guys have kept it in the DIY user developed world. Absolutely fantastic.

Now back to business. Developing a probe for myself.

This is runs on 1.11 software with my second probe I made.

For some reason the probe has difficulty starting once plugged in, as I was
checking for voltage on the curcuit lines and I touched the green LED it booted into life.
Either it takes a while to build up voltage supply or there is a poor cucuit some where. So far all curcuits prove to be ok for conductivity. I haven't seen any dry joints or poor contacts so far.
I am using a 16v 100uf electro, maybe this does need to be 10v type. I havent found any locally though.
Once running it has no trouble to restart if unplugged, replugged. But next day operation it has issues. Does the 16v cap hold charge that disipates, but maybe slow to charge up?

I ran runs on each sensor in order, sensor 0 then sensor 1 and then combined.
I found unless I set addivity error to atleast 30~35% it fails as each channel is around -20 to -30% addivity.

You will note a separate decoder log for each setup.

Since the default is -15% is this too high?

The sensor it contained in a case with ports like your case,it was placed central

and 10cm from an PC LCD monitor.
Phillips 170B6
Monitor set to D65 and on a DVI cable.
Video Card is a nVidia 6600GT 128

Run at night time with no external light source conditions.

I had a go at calibration using the combined sensors 0 and 1 thc calibration, I made some improvements overall, with some work to go.

You will note that each run I ran the measures table where I set the scale to 50 and for 5 points starting from left I measured the screen then brought up the test color in order of black, white, Red, green, Blue in front of the sensor to see how the probe responded.

Is this probe performing aswell as other probes made?
If not, why?
If the capacitor brand and tolerance values are to high allowing to much interferance noise on the sensors, if so maybe suggest farnell references which are world wide avaliable.

Overall some progress.

I would like to add to your probe manufacturing website though.
Maybe add a brief tutorial in french/english for probe install, and how to do a calibration without a thc reference file.
With that, a brief discription on each value of probe setup.
Addivity faults or out of range may be an indicator of poor performance of the probe. Maybe have typical range values you should see on a good probe.

Of course this may be in the help file you are working on for english, which I'm sure you will complete at a wecolme pace.

Regards
--Nigel
aka Smokey Joe

Is there any pre-packaged kit that is available for the DIY probe? I don't know where to begin tracking parts to build it.

Hi Laric, George.

I can't say more how fantastic this DIY software and hardware is. You guys deserve much credit for something which alot of ppl would turn into big bucks for their pockets; you guys have kept it in the DIY user developed world. Absolutely fantastic.
Thanks.

I am using a 16v 100uf electro, maybe this does need to be 10v type. I havent found any locally though.
Once running it has no trouble to restart if unplugged, replugged. But next day operation it has issues. Does the 16v cap hold charge that disipates, but maybe slow to charge up?
This is not a your problem, at least I doubt it, you can even simply remove that cap if you have a doubt... The probe don't "need" it to work. (I won't go in detail, but trust me ;))

Since the default is -15% is this too high?
No, the usual results are about 1% (even less) additivity... There must be something wrong on red, and I doubt it is IR as your LCD quite likely don't emit any IR.
Basicaly what is additivity ? on each color (RGB) the measured level plus black should equal white...

and 10cm from an PC LCD monitor.
You should pace the probe straight close to the screen, it must touch it. (this is to increase dynamic)

Run at night time with no external light source conditions.
Good.

Of course this may be in the help file you are working on for english, which I'm sure you will complete at a wecolme pace.
Of course it is (although it is pretty difficult to spoke about typical value as that could be way different...).
There will be an english doc (and likely a German one)... Just dunno when :D

Nigel, I will now look at your files...

--Patrice

Nigel, first overview of your file doesn't highlight big problems.

I'm chatting with me coleague to try having a good answer for additivity issue...

--Patrice

Georges,

Thanks for the reply about the English Help file. I fully understand. Looking forward to it when you get a chance to complete it. :)

Wayne

Thanks Patrice,

Out of interest I ran the software1.11 in "simulated sensor" mode and got the same addivity error. Could the error be software induced?

btw I was scrounging up an IR filter from our video and photography dept at the university where i work and low and behold i spot a spyder2pro!!. I now have it in my hot wee hands to test along side my DIY sensors.

I see some late long hours ahead :D

I happened to notice the cover attachment for LCD monitors is a cyan filter, hmmmmm, the cm500 that the taos sensor recommends is a cyan correction filter.hmmmm hmmmmm ;)

I noticed that the pal iso is version 1.1.1.5 now, I assume some of the errors I mentioned earlier have been fixed?

This is fantastic sw, but since I'm an newbie on measuring stuff so I will ask couple of quick questions.

I have installed version 1.11 but about still says it is 1.1? Maybe this is just an oversight and my sw is correct?

When I installed this sw it had a lot of projector profiles listed, including my HS60, what and how are these used? I cannot find them anywhere and as I don't understand french Help does not want to help me :)

I measured gray scale with 10 values and primary and secondary colors. There are a lot histograms available, but there is not data all of them. Shift histogram, luminance historgram and combined histogram for free measures are empty. Is this how it should be and how values are entered here?

I would really like to see my Delta E results, but is there a histogram for that?

The v1.11 was just an update to the Spyder interface DLL, the main app did not change, hence it says v1.1.

The profile list is when using our Probe... I assume you don't have it, so don't bother this...
What probe are you using ?

Delta E automatically appear on RGB diagram as soon as you have done measures...

--Patrice

The v1.11 was just an update to the Spyder interface DLL, the main app did not change, hence it says v1.1.

The profile list is when using our Probe... I assume you don't have it, so don't bother this...
What probe are you using ?

Delta E automatically appear on RGB diagram as soon as you have done measures...

--Patrice
I'm using Spyder2 probe(filter is on) and I'm going to use your test dvd to test values. Probe is pointed at the projector about 40cm from screen.

"What other measurements should I do than gray scale with 10 values and primary and secondary colors to get Delta E. Must I measure saturation scales for different colors?"

Wrote the above and noticed that my Delta E is so off that I had to change scale :D

I hope you get your english Help ready so I get better understanding what kind of info I can get by measung saturation scales for different colors. Hints? :confused:

How about that histogram for free measures, should it have any values or not? :confused:

Hello everybody

I will try to answer to many things in that post ;)

Nigel, bad additivity is not necessarily a problem. Some projectors have valid calibration file, with big additivity errors. There are two main reasons for that: projectors which emit lots of infra-red have bad additivity check, but calibration file are OK. An example of that is TW-600. The other classical case is DLP projectors with a white segment on their color wheel. Since this segment is used for white and not for primary colors, you can have huge additivity errors. But calibration files work in that case too, you can have good results.

Just disable additivity check in sensor options dialog box (in calibration tab). You can easily check if your calibration file is suitable or not. Just measure primaries, and look at CIE chart. If gamut triangle looks fine, it's OK. When calibration file is useless, gamut triangle ressembles anything except a gamut ;)

Joe,

Most histograms are about gray scale (luminance, RGB, color temp, CIE). The others rely on distinct series of measures. Near black histogram rely on Near black gray scale, and only on that. Idem for near white. The two saturation histograms (luma and shifts) rely on all 6 saturation series (and display only curves relying on existing series). The combined histogram rely only on free measures (continuous measuring). Only CIE chart shows everything (with options). Primary and secondary colors are only displayed on CIE chart.

And the information popup window, when active, rely on selected measure only.

Regards
Georges

Thanks Patrice,

Out of interest I ran the software1.11 in "simulated sensor" mode and got the same addivity error. Could the error be software induced?



I too have seen this error when in simulate mode . I have Win/XP SP2 . Haven't connected the Spyder yet (on order) .

Scott...............

Don't bother this kind of things with Simlulated Probe... That is normal, it can return abnormal values.

BTW, Georges and Maik were prolific, a new 1.12 will pop in soon (just need to build setup).
It include German support as well as a few improvements in CIE Chart display and a more advanced Delta E management.

--Patrice

@HCFR team

Thanks for the great work - tried the s/w yesterday with my BG808 and the Spyder2 and it worked great. Much faster than the method with OptiCal and an Excel sheet.

Used it with the sensor (without filter) facing the CRT to get better readings in the lower IRE's; as already requested a compensator would be nice i.e. x = read 80IRE facing proj - read 80 IRE reflected and if activated the value is automatically subtracted in all IRE columns ... (need to make some tests though - I've no idea how big the impact is actually)

Auto-Read all IRE's would also be nice - on my test DVD the IRE fields from 10 to 100 are played in a row (each showing around 5 sec) and instead of pressing "Pause" on the player and hit "Enter" in HCFR it would be great if it goes all automatic

Well, simulated sensor additivity trouble is perfectly normal... This pseudo-sensor is only a random number generator, with erratic returns... If you remove all random options and offset values in its options, return values will be absolutely perfect. Even better than any real sensor ;) So you will no more have any additivity error.

This sensor is only here for internal test purpose, and for people who want to see how it looks when software is working. No more.

Trinitron, we are thinking about screen offsets. But we don't want to implement something if we are not sure it will work fine. And now, I don't know if I just have to use a vector in CIExy colorspace, or a transformation matrix equivalent to our calibration files, which can shift white point, primary and secondary colors in different relative directions... We have to think about that before going on programming.

Regards
Georges

Hi thanks for your resonses.

I was just setting up my pc to be ready later tonight to try and do a calibration on my projector and also to do a side by side diy probe and spyder2pro. But the HCFR software v1.1.1 won't see this spyder probe? The probe is installed and running under usb devices but the HCFR software asks for CVspyder.dll
This is the version spyder2pro and the only drivers on the cd is CVspyder2

any ideas?

--Nigel

I just want to add my thanks for this extraordinary software. As the earlier graphs portray below 20% stim (using Getgray DVD as source in my case) gets dicey and requires longer time for reading but it's smooth sailing with brighter levels.

It will come in very handy over the next few days - or weeks as the case may be - as I embark on fixing color nonuniformity on my Pearl (Sony VPL-VW50.) As I shifted the sensor over the different areas of the screen it was great to see all the variations graphed in Measures continuous mode, and they correlated well with what I can see visually. It'll ease the laborious process of correcting these variations through 3D Gamma on the Sony.

Dan

I tried this out today on my Hitachi CRT RTPV TV. With the Spyder filter on, and the red tracks low. Without it, it tracks much better, but still tracks lower than my CALMAN run. The top is without the filter, the bottom with the filter.

HCFR Spyder runs (http://home.comcast.net/~leebailey00/HCFR.JPG)

I tried this out today on my Hitachi CRT RTPV TV. With the Spyder filter on, and the red tracks low. Without it, it tracks much better, but still tracks lower than my CALMAN run. The top is without the filter, the bottom with the filter.

So do you think that there are discrepancies between both software reading data off the Spyder2 or any probe?