CBIII vs. Halcro SS100 [Text View]

PeterS

10-20-06, 07:32 PM

I am in the same boat and considering the Halcro, coming from a CBIII. However, I would like to audition the Halcro before making a decision.

Speaking to Theta, they are planning on an HDMI input for LDPCM in 2007, and an HDMI 1.3 for decoding within the Theta in 2008. Halcro will probably beat them to the punch, but only by six months or so.

The problem is that I find it hard to believe that the Halcro can sound as good as the Theta. I have spoken with John B. at Theta at length about their philosophy and how they handle the signal in the Theta, and it just seems right to me.

The Halcro is not only adding a lot of video processing in the system (which interferes with the audio signal) but also putting that huge LCD on the front can not help the audio at all. Also, my contact with Halcro has not impressed me with their technical knowledge at all vs. just speaking with John at Theta.

At this point I am waiting until they have their multi-channel LDPCM update for the Halcro, which is probably this Spring from what I can tell. At that point I will want to audition one and see. Theta has been very good to me, as I was one of the first Casablanca I customers. I find it hard to believe that anyone could do as good a job as they at audio reproduction.

sfogg

10-20-06, 07:38 PM

"HDMI is not a real issue for me right now as my display does not have it. "

HDMI is useful for more then just running video to your display. It can be used even without a display to pass audio digitally into a processor to use its own processing and DACs. For example feeding DVD-A and SACDs into the processor.

Shawn

Bulldogger

10-21-06, 03:49 PM

Further, it bothers me a little that I have to pay an additional $2000 for a six shooter just to do DVD Audio or SACD. Considering what to do, any input from you guys would be helpful.
Would it matter if by going this route, the Six Shooter sounds better? Is it that you do not care if it would not sound as good and prefer the ease of all in one? I think Halcro appears to be a fine company I would have no problem using them from my conversations with them. I am sticking with Theta because of the Six Shooter. If you are wililng to give up some quality on the analog bypass for SACD, then it would be a great for what I have seen so far. I think a cheaper pre/pro outperformed the Halcro on analog bypass in The Absolute sound comparision. So far, for music, no all in one box pre-pro that I have tried has equaled the Six Shooter for SACD. I like the Meridian 861 too. It is a hell of a performer and does not get enough "press" around here.

KeithR

10-22-06, 02:56 PM

perhaps your best bet is getting a cheaper processor and a good 2 channel preamp.

i don't think any pre/pro will beat that combo for sound quality if that is paramount. until MC audio gets better, i wouldn't worry about it that much for now. perhaps Mike L. can chime in here as he has some expertise in the area.

10-23-06, 04:48 PM

badbenzz

10-23-06, 06:26 PM

BP your right and that's why I started this thread in the first place, no one that I am aware of has done ahead to head comparison between the 2 units. Clearly, if the Halcro is close to the CBIII in sonic performance then there is no question that the Halcro would be the right choice for me, based on the shear convience of it.

tyree91

10-23-06, 11:18 PM

The thing you have to remember is that the SS is a SOTA 2 channel and 5.1 channel analogue preamp. No pre-pro can give this quality with MC analogue inputs into the same dirty chassis as the digital environment. This is why Theta chose this application. SACD/DVD-A are amazing through the SS with a good player. Also serves as a great 2 channel line stage for your phono pre if you use vinyl, an old audiophiles favorite.
TAS compared the SS favorably with the $20K Goldmund. Highly reccomended indeed. If you're an audiophile don't miss this great upgrade. Hell, the cables to do the job in a high end system will cost more than the SS.

badbenzz

10-24-06, 02:22 AM

Hummm you guys are making me rethink this situation. You do make an excellent point tyree.

casualgolfer

10-24-06, 03:23 AM

PeterS

10-24-06, 11:56 AM

I've been doing the same comparison.

The quality of the parts in the Halcro do not compare to those in the CBIII.
I have talked to engineers at both companies - the Theta engineers are sticklers for quality and will only implement a feature when it is the BEST it can be. The Halcro people are more concerned about the features than the quality - they are concerned with being competitive with other companies on a feature-by-feature basis. Theta is not. They are concerned with the quality of the product and only that.
Theta made some good, and verifiable, arguements regarding the quality of currently available HDMI parts being no good for high-quality audio. Though there are some just now coming on line for 1.1. 1.3 is still a ways off.
The Theta unit is MUCH more flexible and future-proof than the Halcro. I started with a very early Casablanca I and now have a well-decked out Casablanca III.

All in all, Halcro makes a fine peice. Is it in the same league as Theta quality-wise - NO. Does it have an impressive feature set - YES. Where am I going to spend my money - Theta.

thebland

10-24-06, 12:06 PM

10-24-06, 12:21 PM

Peter,

I for one would say the feature set on the Halcro is minimalistic. Probably as scaled down as I have seen for a relatively expensive piece. It has a scaler but short of that it is simply a THX processor thta is short on goodies...... but one that has beaten out my previous Lexcion in sonics. I am curious to see what Theta comes up with as well...too bad it'll be a year or more.

I am also having a HT meet in a coule months (date to be dtermined).Come up and hear it....I can guarantee you'll be genuinely impressed.

Jeff:
I understand your current Wine of the Week has been aging for many, many years now. I really hope it is "ready for drinking!"
BP

TO ALL: Still curious as to an explanation of the how the implementation of the Vinci boards and the DAC's used in the SSP-100 are different in the SSP-100/80 vs. the other good prepros that use the identical boards and DAC's?
Reading the previous post about the quality of the internal parts of the Halcro compared with the Theta is very interesting and makes sense based on Halcro's outsourcing of all their components vs. Theta's in-house efforts for much of their product.

PeterS

10-24-06, 12:50 PM

Jeff,

If I can make it, I would be very interested in hearing your setup. Are you using the Halcro's video processor at all, or are you using an external unit?

Peter

thebland

10-24-06, 12:56 PM

BP,
You know aside from Lexicon / Meridian most all manufacturers farm out the heavy stuff...Runco is a great example of taking a standard chassis and squeezing out more excellent performance. Theta is undoubtedly no different (or anyone else e.g. Anthem, ADA, Halcro, etc.). I imagine we could speculate until the cows come home as to what manufacturer adds what secret ingrediants. Who knows if guts is guts and all should sound the same..? This piece sounds different than my Lexicon. I can't specualte as to why. It may (or may not) sound different than the Anthem. Side by side testing would certainly help. I do know my processor does not run nearly as hot as the Anthem and we know heat is the enemy of such electronics. I just don't know. I do know that I am happy with the sonics.... and that's all that matters..

Try Brothers Grimm BluRay! Amazing sonics!!

Wines of late...? I am running the Detroit Marathon on Sunday and have cut my drinking back a little. That said, a 2002 Joseph Phelps would be nice cab in the $50 - $60 range.

thebland

10-24-06, 12:58 PM

Jeff,

If I can make it, I would be very interested in hearing your setup. Are you using the Halcro's video processor at all, or are you using an external unit?

Peter
No I have it bypassed. All my sources are HD (save for DVD which I haven't watched in a while). If you can make it great...! I am anxious to show the forum members what this processsor does. The same group was wowed by my Lexicon last time so we'll concentrate on powerful soundtracks with delicate dialog overlayed.

Art Sonneborn

10-24-06, 01:04 PM

Maybe this is moot for a lot of you guys but as much flux as there is in all of this I'm concerned about paying for a device that does both video and audio processing. It seems to make more sense to keep them separate so that you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater if say the video begins to lag and the audio side holds it's own.

Art

thebland

10-24-06, 01:07 PM

Makes reasonable sense Art.

Evelyn Sinclair

11-02-06, 06:35 PM

Dear AV Forum members,

We can’t participate “in real time” in the freewheeling forums very well, for a number of reasons, but we do know there is a lot of interest in HDMI.

There is a new page on HDMI stashed on a part of Theta's site, which will soon be made public.

The URL for this page is http://www.thetadigital.com/faqhdmi.htm. We address topics we have been asked about by dealers and distributors as well as Theta owners and you folks:

* How is Theta Digital implementing the new HDMI standards?

* What is Theta doing to make the latest technology available to Casablanca owners?

* What will the new Virtu and Valis have in the way of HDMI connectivity?

* What is Theta doing to implement the latest Dolby and DTS formats?

I hope this helps add clarity to the discussions and decision making processes.

Sincerely,

Evelyn Sinclair

Bulldogger

11-03-06, 06:47 PM

Keith I have maintained this position for years! Imagine my surprise when the Six Shooter not only matched every 5k two channel pre-amp that I have tried but BEAT them . No BS. Only thing so far that I have tried that is better is the VTL 7.5 and that's about 5 times the price of the Six Shooter. I realise I am in a minority here and many would just prefer to use a single component that does it all. But for some of us, audiophile types to get this level of quality for so cheap thrills me to no end. Ok, enough of me ranting about the Six shooter. I do not want to steer you away from it by "turning you off" with the over-hyping that guys typically do. This is one case where the product actually performs as advertised. It rates as the best price to performance device I have ever purchase in my many years as an audiophile.

Bulldogger

11-03-06, 06:47 PM

badbenzz

11-05-06, 06:20 AM

Thank you for the update. That's helps me alot in making my decision. Humm six shooter huh? BP where are you?

11-06-06, 10:55 AM

Thank you for the update. That's helps me alot in making my decision. Humm six shooter huh? BP where are you?

Hey BB;
I am still up in the air on the SS. I am not sure yet whether the new HDMI solution from Theta will incorporate SACD and DVD-A capability. If so, I may pass on the SS. If not, I have heard so many good reviews about it that I might have to make room for one.

BULLDOGGER;
I know you use the 2 SS's for multi-channel analog. Do you use the SS for 2 channel or do you use the regular stereo analog connections?
Thx
BP

Bulldogger

11-06-06, 06:08 PM

Hey BB;
I am still up in the air on the SS. I am not sure yet whether the new HDMI solution from Theta will incorporate SACD and DVD-A capability. If so, I may pass on the SS. If not, I have heard so many good reviews about it that I might have to make room for one.

BULLDOGGER;
I know you use the 2 SS's for multi-channel analog. Do you use the SS for 2 channel or do you use the regular stereo analog connections?
Thx
BP
BP, I use the SS for two channel as well. Right now I am using a Sony XA-9000 for my music source but am not really that happy with it. It is just is lifeless with CD. The SS has beat 5 very good two channel pre-amps some former Stereophile Class A two channel pre-amps that my friends have either brought over or I have borrowed. I could not begin to tell you what might better it for between 5 and 10K for music? One friend whose opinion I really value cursed me out. I did not tell him that the SS was that good and asked him to tell me what he thought compared to his pre-amp. He said I was %$$#@ with him as I clearly knew which one was better. I was not trying to ^%%$$# with him, I just wanted an honest opinion without creating an expectation. He still does not believe me. Says, " I embarrassed him." Boy, audiophiles really can get pissed over gear:D.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-06-06, 06:21 PM

Hey BB;
I am still up in the air on the SS. I am not sure yet whether the new HDMI solution from Theta will incorporate SACD and DVD-A capability. If so, I may pass on the SS. If not, I have heard so many good reviews about it that I might have to make room for one.
BP

My five cents.

Don't expect this in the first round of HDMI 1.3 from Theta. There are concerns re HDMI and jitter. And the SACD/DVD-A player would have to output those sonic formats via HDMI. SACD and DVD-A are a niche market whereas Theta anticipates that Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD and DTS HD will gradually evolve to the standards over the years, right only with HD DVD and Blue Ray, but in time with digital satellite and cable as well due to more efficient compression and as good or better sonics than currently with Dolby Digital.

I would not hold my breath hoping for SACD and DVD-Audio via HDMI from high end companies such as and including Theta - except for lower end companies like Oppo (a great piece for the buck, though). Mebbe in a few years when they get this feature on Pioneer players, etc and upgrade them for the audiophile market.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-06-06, 06:21 PM

Get the Six Shooter. You won't be sorry. I'm not.

Keung

11-06-06, 08:59 PM

Many comments/speculations but it seems that nobody has directly compared a CBIII & a SS100 yet.

badbenzz

11-06-06, 10:03 PM

Good point Keung, that's why I started this thread in the first place. What I have heard on my own (speaking to others no hearing it myself) is that the SS100 is more dynamic for movies then the CBIII, but still can't hold a candle to the CBIII when it comes to 2 channel music.

audiman

11-07-06, 10:09 AM

audiman

11-07-06, 10:10 AM

My five cents.

Don't expect this in the first round of HDMI 1.3 from Theta. There are concerns re HDMI and jitter. And the SACD/DVD-A player would have to output those sonic formats via HDMI. SACD and DVD-A are a niche market whereas Theta anticipates that Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD and DTS HD will gradually evolve to the standards over the years, right only with HD DVD and Blue Ray, but in time with digital satellite and cable as well due to more efficient compression and as good or better sonics than currently with Dolby Digital.

I would not hold my breath hoping for SACD and DVD-Audio via HDMI from high end companies such as and including Theta - except for lower end companies like Oppo (a great piece for the buck, though). Mebbe in a few years when they get this feature on Pioneer players, etc and upgrade them for the audiophile market.

The CB3 doesn’t have to decode DSD in this case: only LPCM (over hdmi from the Oppo) decoding is necessary. In fact, do we need hdmi 1.3 ?

sfogg

11-07-06, 10:44 AM

"only LPCM (over hdmi from the Oppo) decoding is necessary."

Correct.

" In fact, do we need hdmi 1.3 ? "

No, esp. not when you understand the ramifications of Advanced content on HD-DVDs.

Shawn

Bulldogger

11-07-06, 12:40 PM

The CB3 doesn’t have to decode DSD in this case: only LPCM (over hdmi from the Oppo) decoding is necessary. In fact, do we need hdmi 1.3 ?
If you are going to use your CBIII to switch 1080p I believe you do. Also I expect like Steve says that in time these new standards will replace dolby digital and you will need on-board decoding. You really have to ignore the "high end" and look at what the mass market is doing. I believe all of the mass market AV receivers are going to have on-board decoding. All of the high end pre/pro companies have plans to do so as well.

sfogg

11-07-06, 12:52 PM

"If you are going to use your CBIII to switch 1080p I believe you do. "

Nope. HDMI v1.0 can handle 1080p. DVI can do it too.

Shawn

Bulldogger

11-07-06, 12:56 PM

This too. Can connect that camera or camcorder to project those shots of the kids, girls, or whatever http://www.hdmi.org/resourcecenter/mini.asp

sfogg

11-07-06, 01:02 PM

Nope, not that either.

All you need is an adapter cable to go from the little plug to a normal sized plug (or DVI) and then plug it into any HDMI (or DVI) equipment to see the video.

HDMI v1.3 sources are backwards compatible with all previous versions including DVI.

Shawn

Adz523

11-07-06, 01:26 PM

The CB3 doesn’t have to decode DSD in this case: only LPCM (over hdmi from the Oppo) decoding is necessary. In fact, do we need hdmi 1.3 ?

Its my understanding that PCM over HDMI from HD DVD or Blue Ray is a down-rez'ed signal and not the same hi-def sound as passing a pure HD DD ot HD DTS signal which requires 1.3 HDMI.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-07-06, 01:49 PM

Its my understanding that PCM over HDMI from HD DVD or Blue Ray is a down-rez'ed signal and not the same hi-def sound as passing a pure HD DD ot HD DTS signal which requires 1.3 HDMI.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????
(You are mixed up my friend.)

HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 both pass PCM over HDMI. The HD DVD or Blue Ray player will decode the digital bitstream to PCM and then that PCM passes over HDMI.
HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 do not pass the digital bitstream and therefore do not allow decoding of the digital bitstream in the processor/receiver.

HDMI 1.3 will permit passing the digital bitstream over HDMI, so that the surround processor/receiver can decode the digital bitstream to PCM.

Advanced Content HD DVDs or Blue Ray DVDs do not permit passing of the digital bitstream over HDMI, even HDMI 1.3, and require that the decoding to PCM be done in the player. All of the movie high definition discs so far are apparently Advanced Content.

Satelite and cable providers will at some point move over to embrace the new sonic formats of Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD and DTS HD. Why? First and foremost, more efficient compression, why else would they do that, certainly not for better sound as they could care less. But they will do this, it will take perhaps a few years or more, and receivers/surround processors will want to be able to decode these formats, regardless whether high definition movie discs remain Advanced Content.

sfogg

11-07-06, 02:40 PM

Steve,

Nice post, you got it!

Shawn

Steve Bruzonsky

11-07-06, 02:50 PM

After several months I finally got it. Whew!!!!!

Adz523

11-07-06, 03:13 PM

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????
(You are mixed up my friend.)

HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 both pass PCM over HDMI. The HD DVD or Blue Ray player will decode the digital bitstream to PCM and then that PCM passes over HDMI.
HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 do not pass the digital bitstream and therefore do not allow decoding of the digital bitstream in the processor/receiver.

HDMI 1.3 will permit passing the digital bitstream over HDMI, so that the surround processor/receiver can decode the digital bitstream to PCM.

Advanced Content HD DVDs or Blue Ray DVDs do not permit passing of the digital bitstream over HDMI, even HDMI 1.3, and require that the decoding to PCM be done in the player. All of the movie high definition discs so far are apparently Advanced Content.

Satelite and cable providers will at some point move over to embrace the new sonic formats of Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD and DTS HD. Why? First and foremost, more efficient compression, why else would they do that, certainly not for better sound as they could care less. But they will do this, it will take perhaps a few years or more, and receivers/surround processors will want to be able to decode these formats, regardless whether high definition movie discs remain Advanced Content.

Wow, you are correct as there does appear to be so much misinformation out there, its startling. I was under the impression that we were waiting for receivers and pre/pros that utilize the full capability of 1.3 HDMI (including the color enhancements and native bitstream transmission) by offering native conversion of DTS Master Audio and Dolby HD to the amps or preouts without PCM conversion, etc. I guess not. :(

sfogg

11-07-06, 03:19 PM

You are certainly right about the misinformation out there.

". I thought we were waiting for receivers and pre/pros that utilize the full capability of 1.3 HDMI (including the color enhancements and native bitstream transmission) by offering native conversion of DTS Master Audio and Dolby HD to the amps or preouts without PCM conversion, etc. I guess not. "

Umm...no.

Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio in the studio start out as LPCM channels. They are then compressed/encoded down into Dolby True HD or DTS Master Audio. The compression is simply to reduce the space/bandwidth required for the LPCM soundtracks.

Just like zipping a large file on your computer.

Just like on your computer to do anything with that zipped file it needs to be decompressed back into its original form.

Wether the player decodes Dolby True HD or DTS Master Audio to its original form... LPCM or the bitstream DTHD/DTSMA is passed over HDMI to your receiver your receiver is just going to turn around and decode it back to LPCM. It has to if you want to actually listen to the soundtrack.

Shawn

pramod1969

01-25-07, 01:27 PM

I currently have a CBIII with extreme dacs and am considering going with a Halcro ss100. Has anyone here compared the two side by side and know what the sonic differences are if any?HDMI is not a real issue for me right now as my display does not have it. Yes I have been happy with the CBIII, but I seem to think the Halcro in the long run would be better based on the more rapid upgrades and such. Further, it bothers me a little that I have to pay an additional $2000 for a six shooter just to do DVD Audio or SACD. Considering what to do, any input from you guys would be helpful.
Hi there, I currently own Halcro SSP 100 and I heard both CB III and SSP 100 same day in different dealer showrooms before making my decision. My amplifier is Theta DN II with Martin logan speakers and obviously I heard the demo with different speakers and amps in both showrooms. To my ears with my reference DVD collection I took to both places, Halcro sounded more dynamic and powerful with about 20% stronger surround effect with DD/DTS tracks(This is noticeable without increasing surround channel outputs). I always like more surround effect and this was a big plus. Any source I heard digitally sounded awesome via SSP 100. CB III sounded better with analog sources with more clarity and sound stage. If you want to use multichannel inputs in Halcro, you get 2 sets of inputs one balanced and other unbalanced, but the catch is only balanced inputs get the choice to use DSP processing vs. unaltered signal. If you ever own 2 separate high end SACD player and DVD-A player, this gives you a chance to connect both to Halcro rather than a universal player. But, CB III sounded better via 6 shooter with my reference BECK SACD & Hotel california DVD-A. As far as 2 channel listening I thought both sounded very similar when signal is digital via AES EBU. Currently I use 4 HDMI inputs on SSP 100 to feed my Dish 622, PS3, DVD player and DVD recorder and I also use the component inputs for XBOX 360 and it is so much fun to see that SSP 100 converts everything to HDMI 720P to my BENQ PE 8720 (My satellite receiver sounds way better via HDMI than optical cable). As far as video processing goes, other than the convenience of HDMI switching, it is one of the useless video processors out there. If you are more into video processing, I would invest money in Anthem D2.
But, this unit sounds way better than Anthem D2 or Lexicon MC 12 which I owned before in my house set up.
For <$7000(typical street price), SSP 100 is the best out there and
if there is any difference I heard between this unit and CB III it can't be more than 10% in the sound stage depth with analog sources only.

I always loved Theta products but they are very expensive~$18000 and not discounted much. I own their DN 2 amplifier for 3 years now and one day I will get CB III once it gets a make over with HDMI 1.3.

So my final recommendations are:
1. If you want to enjoy digital sources with convenient 4 HDMI switching- look nowhere else but SSP 100
2. If you want to enjoy analog sources- SSP 100 is still the best for <$10,000.
3. If you want best video processing built-in - skip SSP 100
4. If you want to send multichannel PCM uncompressed audio via HDMI cable from HD DVD and Bluray- Skip SSP 100 as it only takes 2 channel. It needs a hardware upgrade for that despite HDMI 1.1 version - upgrade available in april 2007.
5. If you want future proof hardware and software upgradable processor - only CB III can do it in the whole world. Halcro can't change the mother board in the existing SSP 100's to HDMI 1.3. It has to be a new unit in future ?2008.
6. I would wait to buy any processor at this point till they all come out with HDMI 1.3 with built in DTS-HD and DD true HD decoding and it will be worth the wait rather than selling them all again and lose money.

I hope this helps!
Pramod

Joelc

01-25-07, 06:52 PM

Disagree with pint # 5...how about the Meridian 861 as it, in my view, provides the same level of upgradability.

Thunder

01-25-07, 07:57 PM

Hi there, I currently own Halcro SSP 100 and I heard both CB III and SSP 100 same day in different dealer showrooms before making my decision. My amplifier is Theta DN II with Martin logan speakers and obviously I heard the demo with different speakers and amps in both showrooms. To my ears with my reference DVD collection I took to both places, Halcro sounded more dynamic and powerful with about 20% stronger surround effect with DD/DTS tracks(This is noticeable without increasing surround channel outputs). I always like more surround effect and this was a big plus. Any source I heard digitally sounded awesome via SSP 100. CB III sounded better with analog sources with more clarity and sound stage. If you want to use multichannel inputs in Halcro, you get 2 sets of inputs one balanced and other unbalanced, but the catch is only balanced inputs get the choice to use DSP processing vs. unaltered signal. If you ever own 2 separate high end SACD player and DVD-A player, this gives you a chance to connect both to Halcro rather than a universal player. But, CB III sounded better via 6 shooter with my reference BECK SACD & Hotel california DVD-A. As far as 2 channel listening I thought both sounded very similar when signal is digital via AES EBU. Currently I use 4 HDMI inputs on SSP 100 to feed my Dish 622, PS3, DVD player and DVD recorder and I also use the component inputs for XBOX 360 and it is so much fun to see that SSP 100 converts everything to HDMI 720P to my BENQ PE 8720 (My satellite receiver sounds way better via HDMI than optical cable). As far as video processing goes, other than the convenience of HDMI switching, it is one of the useless video processors out there. If you are more into video processing, I would invest money in Anthem D2.
But, this unit sounds way better than Anthem D2 or Lexicon MC 12 which I owned before in my house set up.
For <$7000(typical street price), SSP 100 is the best out there and
if there is any difference I heard between this unit and CB III it can't be more than 10% in the sound stage depth with analog sources only.

I always loved Theta products but they are very expensive~$18000 and not discounted much. I own their DN 2 amplifier for 3 years now and one day I will get CB III once it gets a make over with HDMI 1.3.

So my final recommendations are:
1. If you want to enjoy digital sources with convenient 4 HDMI switching- look nowhere else but SSP 100
2. If you want to enjoy analog sources- SSP 100 is still the best for <$10,000.
3. If you want best video processing built-in - skip SSP 100
4. If you want to send multichannel PCM uncompressed audio via HDMI cable from HD DVD and Bluray- Skip SSP 100 as it only takes 2 channel. It needs a hardware upgrade for that despite HDMI 1.1 version - upgrade available in april 2007.
5. If you want future proof hardware and software upgradable processor - only CB III can do it in the whole world. Halcro can't change the mother board in the existing SSP 100's to HDMI 1.3. It has to be a new unit in future ?2008.
6. I would wait to buy any processor at this point till they all come out with HDMI 1.3 with built in DTS-HD and DD true HD decoding and it will be worth the wait rather than selling them all again and lose money.

I hope this helps!
Pramod

Great review, thanks!

I heard from a Canadian dealer that the new SSP120 (HDMI 1.3 model) should be available this summer. Curious, have you ever auditioned the Bryston SP1.7 or SP2? If so, how would you rate it versus these other pre/pros?

pramod1969

01-26-07, 12:44 PM

Great review, thanks!

I heard from a Canadian dealer that the new SSP120 (HDMI 1.3 model) should be available this summer. Curious, have you ever auditioned the Bryston SP1.7 or SP2? If so, how would you rate it versus these other pre/pros?
I did not audition Bryston processors. The other high end audio gear I owned before I settled with Halcro SSP 100 are Classe, Krell, Lexicon, Anthem, Sunfire surround processors over a span of 8 years. Out of all, I loved Anthem & Lexicon for menu flexibility and fine tweaking but nothing really matters when a new processor comes along and puts rest of the competetion to shame with jaw dropping detail in digital audio. For the price, you will not be disappointed with Halcro and I even recommend going with SSP 80 for less money and you lose the front screen, one HDMI input and video processing( a good thing).
Pramod

Jim Swantko

01-26-07, 01:34 PM

I have to agree that the menu structure of Lexicon is fantastic. The PC based software for my Meridian 861 is nice too - once you get accustomed to it.

I too will give up some of that user friendly-ness for raw performance however.

Great review!

thebland

01-26-07, 01:43 PM

No balanced inputs with the 80 either...It was that reason I went with the 100

Agreed, ergonomically it is a train wreck but sonically, I have never heard better.

Fortunately, once set up, you never need to touch it.

terrym4

01-26-07, 05:12 PM

pramod1969

01-26-07, 07:17 PM

I just spoke to the Halcro rep yesterday. The firmware upgrade is finally ready for prime time, but the HDMI 1.3 I was told would probably not be available until the end of the year, which probably means 2008. The reason I went with the Halcro was because I was promised the ability to upgrade to the 1.3, which promise was reaffirmed. Saying the CB3 is the only processor that is upgradeable is misleading. The CB upgrades are generally not cheap, and the Halcro upgrade may be just as reasonable even if it entails a new motherboard.
I am sorry for not including Meridian as one of the harware upgradable units in addition to CB III in ultra high end processor league (Integra research offers same in mid level processors). Both these companies are very expensive and upgrades are equally expensive and are also delayed. But their upgradeability is guaranteed for life (it is possible to pick up a old CB-I processor and it could be modified to CB-III by the factory in no time)which is worth it for money no object audiophiles.

As far as Halcro hardware upgrade to 1.3 is concerned, I was also promised by my dealer that it will be possible, at the time of purchase.

But when I talked to the regional rep. of Halcro he confirmed that they are only going to offer one hardware upgrade in a month or two which will be only to modify existing HDMI inputs to be able to accept uncompressed LPCM from high definition dvd players.

He clearly mentioned that there won't be any mother board upgrade offers to HDMI 1.3 and it has to be a new unit ?SSP 120.

I want my SSP 100 to decode the digital DTS-HD signal directly(rather than depending on cheap DA converters in dvd players) because it has the sweetest sounding DA converters I ever heard in my life.
I was very disappointed that I have to sell my SSP in a year to lose money and buy a new one with HDMI 1.3.
If I am wrong about the information, I would appreciate any new verified information, as it will be a wonderful news to all the current SSP 100 owners.

thebland

01-26-07, 07:19 PM

My guy told me this:

LPCM is on its way and 1.3 isn't even in the playbook.

The SSP120 is simply the SSP100 + LPCM.

sfogg

01-26-07, 09:57 PM

Thunder

01-27-07, 01:40 AM

My guy told me this:

LPCM is on its way and 1.3 isn't even in the playbook.

The SSP120 is simply the SSP100 + LPCM.

That's not what I heard. The dealer was very certain about the launch of a new unit labelled as the SSP120, launching this year and would include HDMI 1.3 input. I did not ask him about upgrade path from current units but will next time I speak to him. This new unit is distinct from the LPCM daughter board upgrade that is supposed to happen some time within the next 60 days.

Thunder

01-27-07, 01:47 AM

"I want my SSP 100 to decode the digital DTS-HD signal directly(rather than depending on cheap DA converters in dvd players) because it has the sweetest sounding DA converters I ever heard in my life."

If the Halcro gets LPCM you won't be using the DA converters in the DVD player. You will use the DACs in the Halcro.

Shawn

He's talking about decoding the lossless formats (TrueHD and Master Audio) I believe, not digital to analog conversion. The Pre/pro cannot receive these new lossless formats unless it has a HDMI 1.3 input plus the necessary decoders. With the HDMI 1.1 and 1.2, the formats are unzipped in the player, and sent to the pre/pro in the form of LPCM.

TPigeon2006

01-27-07, 07:48 AM

Yeah but he assumed that it required a D/A conversion to get to LPCM as opposed to a mere "unzipping" of the file. So shawn is right in his reply.

sfogg

01-27-07, 12:43 PM

JlgLaw

01-27-07, 01:13 PM

Agree with Shawn, which is why I'd be satisfied with Halcro making the multi-channel LPCM available and then have a 2G player do the decoding. Also waiting on Kaleidescape to implement storage of HD to determine how that will affect playback.

Allen Fleener

01-27-07, 01:32 PM

Hi there, I currently own Halcro SSP 100 and I heard both CB III and SSP 100 same day in different dealer showrooms before making my decision. My amplifier is Theta DN II with Martin logan speakers and obviously I heard the demo with different speakers and amps in both showrooms. To my ears with my reference DVD collection I took to both places, Halcro sounded more dynamic and powerful with about 20% stronger surround effect with DD/DTS tracks(This is noticeable without increasing surround channel outputs). I always like more surround effect and this was a big plus. Any source I heard digitally sounded awesome via SSP 100. CB III sounded better with analog sources with more clarity and sound stage. If you want to use multichannel inputs in Halcro, you get 2 sets of inputs one balanced and other unbalanced, but the catch is only balanced inputs get the choice to use DSP processing vs. unaltered signal. If you ever own 2 separate high end SACD player and DVD-A player, this gives you a chance to connect both to Halcro rather than a universal player. But, CB III sounded better via 6 shooter with my reference BECK SACD & Hotel california DVD-A. As far as 2 channel listening I thought both sounded very similar when signal is digital via AES EBU. Currently I use 4 HDMI inputs on SSP 100 to feed my Dish 622, PS3, DVD player and DVD recorder and I also use the component inputs for XBOX 360 and it is so much fun to see that SSP 100 converts everything to HDMI 720P to my BENQ PE 8720 (My satellite receiver sounds way better via HDMI than optical cable). As far as video processing goes, other than the convenience of HDMI switching, it is one of the useless video processors out there. If you are more into video processing, I would invest money in Anthem D2.
But, this unit sounds way better than Anthem D2 or Lexicon MC 12 which I owned before in my house set up.
For <$7000(typical street price), SSP 100 is the best out there and
if there is any difference I heard between this unit and CB III it can't be more than 10% in the sound stage depth with analog sources only.

I always loved Theta products but they are very expensive~$18000 and not discounted much. I own their DN 2 amplifier for 3 years now and one day I will get CB III once it gets a make over with HDMI 1.3.

So my final recommendations are:
1. If you want to enjoy digital sources with convenient 4 HDMI switching- look nowhere else but SSP 100
2. If you want to enjoy analog sources- SSP 100 is still the best for <$10,000.
3. If you want best video processing built-in - skip SSP 100
4. If you want to send multichannel PCM uncompressed audio via HDMI cable from HD DVD and Bluray- Skip SSP 100 as it only takes 2 channel. It needs a hardware upgrade for that despite HDMI 1.1 version - upgrade available in april 2007.
5. If you want future proof hardware and software upgradable processor - only CB III can do it in the whole world. Halcro can't change the mother board in the existing SSP 100's to HDMI 1.3. It has to be a new unit in future ?2008.
6. I would wait to buy any processor at this point till they all come out with HDMI 1.3 with built in DTS-HD and DD true HD decoding and it will be worth the wait rather than selling them all again and lose money.

I hope this helps!
Pramod

I would have to wonder as to the quality of the setup when you heard a 20% louder surround sound from the Halco.

I would bet that this demo was flawed as the volume for the rear channels was not set properly in one or the other. I have found that dealer demos are rarely setup accurately. Sad but true. The same goes for video... few are ISF calibrated.

The only true test would be side by side and properly setup.

The real strengths of Theta beyond it's sonics are it's upgradeabilty and it's modular approach to better and better sonics.

With Theta you can truly have an killer movie system and an killer audio system all in the same system.

Adding the Six Shooter should be the #1 priority of every CBIII owner as it will take your audio experience to heavenly heights for a very modest cost.

For those serious about 2 channel CD's the next thing would be the GEN VIII dac. This brings the most out of your CD listening and soon the megalink will allow the Direct link for SACD and DVD-A too. The GEN VIII can then replace 2 of the dacs in the CBIII which adds to the movie experience as well.

You can, if you so desire, have multiple GEN VIII's be the dacs for all the channels in the CBIII. This would be the best that you could achieve in Theta and something that I am looking at doing when Megalink is released.

thebland

01-27-07, 01:49 PM

Do you sell Theta? Is that why his opinion is flawed?

Bulldogger

01-27-07, 04:10 PM

Hi there, I currently own Halcro SSP 100 and I heard both CB III and SSP 100 same day in different dealer showrooms before making my decision.
What dacs in the CBIII? This make a TREMENDOUS difference. Good review though. Honestly if it is not in the same system, comparisions are not really valid. Room acoustics, different speakers and amplifiers. Any of the differences that you noticed could be attributed to these factors. Sorry to give you a hard time but you really gained little from this comparison. Using different speakers alone invalidates it.

thebland

01-27-07, 04:39 PM

Bulldogger

01-28-07, 06:59 AM

Oh, c'mon Bulldog, your starting to sound like Allen.

The guy is just giving his opinion on what he heard in his own system - not a conclusive double blind study, etc. No need to feel wronged.

I gave my opinion as well. I prefer the Halcro HT sound to my old Lexicon, Meridian, and CBII (trial piece I had for a month). It's not fact...just opinion.

BTW - Ones opinions are always valid (unless the opinion is unfavorable to what you have in your rack or you sell it).:rolleyes:
Let's be serious. DIFFERENT SPEAKERS? That is a far cry from asking for a double blind test which I have never once done. He is giving the opinion of what he heard in two different DEALER systems. One of us can not read.

Bulldogger

01-28-07, 07:16 AM

I gave my opinion as well. I prefer the Halcro HT sound to my old Lexicon, Meridian, and CBII (trial piece I had for a month). It's not fact...just opinion.

BTW - Ones opinions are always valid (unless the opinion is unfavorable to what you have in your rack or you sell it).:rolleyes:
The CBII is outdated and the original Superior dacs are inferior to at least a couple of different surroud processor that I have heard in my home system. The CBIII is much improved. The Meridian stuff you owned dated from the 1990's. The Meridian 861 is a very formidable processor. Hear that piece before you judge Meridian. The Meridian 861 is one of the best on the market and a piece that I would be happy to own. If you are going to try to make brand comparison, I think you should do it with current top of the line models from these companies. Guess I am asking too much?

Jim Swantko

01-28-07, 07:52 AM

The CBII is outdated and the original Superior dacs are inferior to at least a couple of different surroud processor that I have heard in my home system. The CBIII is much improved. The Meridian stuff you owned dated from the 1990's. The Meridian 861 is a very formidable processor. Hear that piece before you judge Meridian. The Meridian 861 is one of the best on the market and a piece that I would be happy to own. If you are going to try to make brand comparison, I think you should do it with current top of the line models from these companies. Guess I am asking too much?

Agreed. The older Meridian processors (while very good) are quite a bit different from the latest iteration of the 861.

It's like saying my '07 Camry is soooo much better than the '90 Lexus LS400 I test drove, therefore Toyota > Lexus.

Just throwing a little fuel onto this fire. :)

thebland

01-28-07, 08:27 AM

Agreed. The older Meridian processors (while very good) are quite a bit different from the latest iteration of the 861.

It's like saying my '07 Camry is soooo much better than the '90 Lexus LS400 I test drove, therefore Toyota > Lexus.

Just throwing a little fuel onto this fire. :)

Bulldogger has some issues with protectionism of his equipment. Always has....

I really laughed when I read his posts. He seems so serious.

If it were that good...I'd own it!

The Center

01-28-07, 03:17 PM

thebland

01-28-07, 05:12 PM

I let me 12B go as well for the Halcro. THe SSP-100 is a remarkable unit for HT surround. I found it far more dynamic and natural sounding than my 12B. They have really a special unit in the SSP 100 aside from the ergonomic quirks.

You are right, the scaler is pretty useless.

I have a Lumagen Radiance coming hopefully in a few weaks to ameliorate that problem.

Joelc

01-28-07, 05:23 PM

Wow...seems as though there are a number of us who abandoned Lexicon for other pastures..personally I went from Lexicon to Meridian and now own a Meridian 861V4.24 and COULD NOT be happier...okay, I could, it would be nice to have an on-screen userface a la Lexicon as programming the unit with a PC is a bit of a PITA..

Thunder

01-28-07, 08:09 PM

Forced to jump into the discussion after a long sideline life.... having both the 861V.4 and the SS100... I can offer some insight.... different sides of the same coin.... The V.4 is leagues ahead in analog.... digital is somewhat more subjective.... I am running the Meridian unit with 5200's in a HT seutp.... would sound different (really) with non-Meridian gear.... I know this as i swapped the 5200's for the JM Focals (Micros) that I am utilizing in 2 channel.... i bought the SS100 to check out the video signal processing... i would probably want to utilize and external scalar (with the many optional features) if going this way again...some time in the future i will swap out the SS100 for the V.4 to see the difference... both are really great units... i must confess the Meridian has been my standard since letting go of my 12B and Genelec setup a couple of years ago...The good news is that both mfg's have been very attentive to my needs though their dealer network.... i like em both...for different reasons...

Interesting as I was under the impression that digital was the real strength of Meridian gear and not analog - not to say it's bad, but not a particular strength. Would appreciate some clarification on a few things:
-- more specifc commentary around analog vs digital performance
-- based upon your commentary, have you found Median gear to be far less effective when utilized with non-Meridian gear?
--please spell out what you see as the (different) reasons you like both of them

Thanks

Bulldogger

01-29-07, 08:44 AM

Bulldogger has some issues with protectionism of his equipment. Always has....

I really laughed when I read his posts. He seems so serious.

If it were that good...I'd own it!
No never. If fact Shawn Fogg has validly pointed out all of the criticism that I have made about Theta in the past. Those criticism still stand. I am out for ME. Brand loyalty interferes with you being able to buy the best performance which is why I own several brands. You want to over-simplify things by making it appear that you have made a comparison between Theta , Meridian, Lexicon and that the Halcro was superior. The truth is that had you compared the current Meridian gear to the 1990's vintage stuff that you owned your observations would be much the same as the improvements that you report for the Halcro. The same applies to the Theta. Had you in fact compared a CBIII with the newer dacs to the older CBII with original Superior dacs you would have noticed a similar improvement. I know you what it to be simple but it is not. To offer valid comparison you really have to be completely truthful. That means clearly stating that you do not have any experience with the most current flagship products from Meridian, Theta, and perhaps even with Lexicon's MC12HD. Truth be told, at moment,ultimately the MC12HD should be able to outperform any of these processor since it is the only one capable of accepting a digital 5.1 24/96 signal . Now you have switched processors and want to declare the new brand better than ever thing else on the market. If you want to accuse me of brand loyalty, then make that accusation about California Audio Labs, that stuff still competes with everything that I have heard and it is 7 years old! To bad they went OB because the were really producing great products for the price. The Cal SSP2500 easily beats a Theta CBII with original superior dacs on DD and analog two channel bypass. Current price , 1000 to 1300.00 ;). I sold my Cal audio MCA 2500 amp to a guy with Mcintosh MC501 monoblocks who promtly sold the MC501s. Price for that 2000 to 2500 for 500 watts time 5. Feel free to call me a Cal audio labs fan boy:D.

thebland

01-29-07, 09:03 AM

I think you are reading too far into my comments.

I am only saying that in my system, the Halcro is the best yet.

I have never set up scientific A/B experiments nor do I declare I did. The new Meridian is I am sure a fine piece but never have I said it wasn't (i have never actually heard one).

I really don't care which processor would come out on top if a scientific analysis was done. I only care about what I am hearing in my own theater. My Halcro is better sounding than my Lexicon. There is no denying that under the conditions in my theater, that it is true. No brand loyalty here...I change brands like shirts. If it is good, I keep it.

Bulldogger

01-29-07, 10:36 AM

The Bland, you know you and I can go back and forth forever:D. Let's agree not to turn this thread into another debate. If you read the original thread, I was actually excited by Halcro. I remain excited. Competition is good! The person who started this thread is a CBIII owner. The expectation was that Theta was going to be way behind on the HDMI thing and a lot of guys were looking to jump ship. Count me in that bunch too;). If fact, I'd say there has been quite a bit of behind the scenes discussions on whether this would be a good processor to switch to. Of course not Steve though, Steve would never switch:). I do not believe you would ever switch to Theta either, no matter what:D. As they say,"time will tell." Time has made many realize that Halcro faces the same challenges as Theta and they might as well stick with Theta. If you are an audiophile like me, the Six Shooter, which i did not own when I first became interested in the Halcro, becomes the deciding factor and the ability to upgrade the processor . I waiting to see if in fact Halcro releases a SSP120 with NO upgrade path for SSP100 owners. Maybe it does not matter to you but it will to some. That's why although I like Mcintosh products, I would never buy one of their surround processors because you have no upgrade path. I see that Parasound appears to have a new pre/pro in the works? They use the same platform as Halcro so I am expecting new pre/pros from both of these companies.

pramod1969

01-29-07, 11:11 AM

"The Pre/pro cannot receive these new lossless formats unless it has a HDMI 1.3 input plus the necessary decoders."

They can't receive them in the bitstream compressed format but they can received the decoded audio that is bit for bit identical to the source.

"With the HDMI 1.1 and 1.2, the formats are unzipped in the player, and sent to the pre/pro in the form of LPCM."

True, but even with HDMI v1.3 the only difference is the pre-pro *might* do the decoding (unzipping) of the new formats back to LPCM. And depending upon what happens that may or may not happen based on advanced content/coding on discs which currently requires decoding in the player.

Shawn
Thanks for the update Shawn; I have few questions on these formats. I see that only bluray discs offer uncompressed PCM 5.1 audio in addition to the dolby/DTS. I don't think HD DVD offers it in that format.
When I tried to use PCM tracks on my PS3 while playing the movie Dinosaur-blu ray it sounded horrible compared to the wonderful DTS track(bitstream). It should be because my SSP 100 can't receive multichannel PCM over HDMI yet. I see most DVD reviewers craving about uncompressed PCM track and I wanted to enjoy it once in my HT set up. I guess it is not possible since there is no 5.1 outputs from PS3.
Let us say I have a bluray or HD DVD disc only offered in DTS HD format and there is no pcm track offered. I thought, the only way I will still be able to send it via HDMI 1.1 is if I have a built in decoder in the player which converts it first to analog and either you choose to send it via 5.1 analog outs or HDMI 1.1 for single cable convenience. This info is like DVD-A or SACD signal coming to the SSP 100 and you can choose to either keep the signal analog(bypass) or convert it back to digital then change it to anaolog via DSP. I thought the only direct way to keep the siganal digital is via HDMI 1.3 with new decoders in SSP 100.
My LG BH 100 is coming to house on 2/2/07 and I am going to use its analog outputs to run to my SSP 100. I want to see how it sounds different with DTS-HD with my favourite bluray discs "behind enemy lines" and X-men III. Since it is HDMI 1.2, it is not a long term solution unless I like what it does decoding future formats and how my SSP 100 takes it.
Please let me know if you have any corrections/tips.
thanks
Pramod

pramod1969

01-29-07, 11:30 AM

What dacs in the CBIII? This make a TREMENDOUS difference. Good review though. Honestly if it is not in the same system, comparisions are not really valid. Room acoustics, different speakers and amplifiers. Any of the differences that you noticed could be attributed to these factors. Sorry to give you a hard time but you really gained little from this comparison. Using different speakers alone invalidates it.
The DACs I heard in CB III were the expensive extreme DAC's with my favourite DN II amplifier paired with Nordost cables and B&W 800 speakers. That was one of the most expensive set up I ever heard in a show room. When I left the show room to go to audition Halcro SSP 100 (with cheaper Audioquest cables, Earthquake amp and martin logan speakers), I had very low expectations but was pleasantly surprised by the sound dynamics. I am sure something is wrong somewhere, but I just wanted to share my experience with fellow AVS members. It is almost impossible to convince these dealers to allow me to audition these high end prepros at my home to compare head to head.
Finally, I have nothing against CB 3 or Meridian 860 as I dream to own one of those before I die to see how they sound in my house. I just wanted to help out those who are willing to spend under $10,000 to narrow down their choices.
Pramod

sfogg

01-29-07, 01:48 PM

"I have few questions on these formats. I see that only bluray discs offer uncompressed PCM 5.1 audio in addition to the dolby/DTS. I don't think HD DVD offers it in that format."

HD-DVD does not have uncompressed PCM 5.1. However they do have Dolby True HD which is a lossless compression format. So once it is uncompressed it is bit for bit identical to the source. In other words the quality level is right there were the uncompressed PCM on BluRay, just that it can be stored/transmitted in less bandwidth.

"I see most DVD reviewers craving about uncompressed PCM track and I wanted to enjoy it once in my HT set up. I guess it is not possible since there is no 5.1 outputs from PS3."

Not possible in your system. Those that can accept LPCM over HDMI can.

"Let us say I have a bluray or HD DVD disc only offered in DTS HD format and there is no pcm track offered. I thought, the only way I will still be able to send it via HDMI 1.1 is if I have a built in decoder in the player which converts it first to analog and either you choose to send it via 5.1 analog outs or HDMI 1.1 for single cable convenience."

The signal sent over HDMI is NOT analog. It would be the uncompressed LPCM signal.

In the studio they start with say a 6 channel LPCM soundtrack. For distribution it ends up getting compressed.... by Dolby THD, DD, DTS...etc..etc. The compression reduces the storage/bandwidth requirements and depending upon how it is compressed may or may not effect the quality of the soundtrack. No matter what at some point a compressed soundtrack needs to be uncompressed back to LPCM. That is an absolute requirement to be able to listen to the track. If the decompression occurs in the player after it is in LPCM (digital) format the player can either spit the LPCM out over HDMI or it can convert the LPCM back to analog with its own DACs.

What happens to either the LPCM or the analog signal at the pre-pro depends upon what the pre-pro can and can not do.

"This info is like DVD-A or SACD signal coming to the SSP 100 and you can choose to either keep the signal analog(bypass) or convert it back to digital then change it to anaolog via DSP."

Can the SSP 100 process on a multichannel analog input? I thought Thebland has posted at one point that it couldn't process a 6 channel source?

"I thought the only direct way to keep the siganal digital is via HDMI 1.3 with new decoders in SSP 100."

That is mistaken. You can keep the signal digital to a processor even with HDMI v1.0. That is assuming of course that ones pre-pro can accept LPCM over HDMI, few can.

Shawn

Kishore

01-29-07, 03:26 PM

The DACs I heard in CB III were the expensive extreme DAC's with my favourite DN II amplifier paired with Nordost cables and B&W 800 speakers. That was one of the most expensive set up I ever heard in a show room. When I left the show room to go to audition Halcro SSP 100 (with cheaper Audioquest cables, Earthquake amp and martin logan speakers), I had very low expectations but was pleasantly surprised by the sound dynamics. I am sure something is wrong somewhere, but I just wanted to share my experience with fellow AVS members. It is almost impossible to convince these dealers to allow me to audition these high end prepros at my home to compare head to head.
Finally, I have nothing against CB 3 or Meridian 860 as I dream to own one of those before I die to see how they sound in my house. I just wanted to help out those who are willing to spend under $10,000 to narrow down their choices.
Pramod

I agree with Bulldogger that until you compare side-by side in the same system one cannot make a final judgement but only assumptions based on sonic preferences or memory. It is extremely difficult to do that in a dealer set-up (unless they are flexible)-but at least you made the effort to compare :).

Your conclusions are not surprising though.. there was a reviewer (Perf Vsion mag?) who preferred Halcro to Theta CB3 w extreme DAC for digital sources in the SAME system.

Anyway I think next year will be lot more fun and with HDMI/all digital formats in play, the gap between a mid-priced pre-pro & hi-end is almost gone. Ultimately more power/choice to us :)

Cheers,
Kishore

Kishore

01-29-07, 03:37 PM

Interesting as I was under the impression that digital was the real strength of Meridian gear and not analog - not to say it's bad, but not a particular strength. Would appreciate some clarification on a few things:
-- more specifc commentary around analog vs digital performance
-- based upon your commentary, have you found Median gear to be far less effective when utilized with non-Meridian gear?
--please spell out what you see as the (different) reasons you like both of them

Thanks

I have not come across a HT pre-pro which can come close to a dedicated preamp ;) Meridian's ADC is good enough, BUT if you use Trifield aka 3 Ch for music (assuming u have a good center), then I highly recommend it.

I used to use Meridian with analog speakers and they work fine- DACs of 861 are pretty good. Room correction was a positive enhancement in my room. The meridian sources could offer upsampled digital input to meridian pre-pro using MHR Link...but now with HDMI you have other choices for digital source.

Concerning speakers besides 7000 & 8000, I don't think Meridian speakers offer good value for $$. There is only so much you can do with an inferior driver...but I have to say Meridian has been far ahead of the curve wrt active/digital speakers and flexibility/tweakability in digital domain.

Cheers,
Kishore

pramod1969

01-29-07, 04:05 PM

Halcro SSP 100 can apply DSP to multichannel inputs only via balanced inputs rather than the common RCA inputs. I have some cables terminated with RCA at one end and balanced at the other for the sake of convenience rather than to use adapters. I wish SSP 100 will make future processors able to apply DSP to both inputs.

sfogg

01-29-07, 05:03 PM

"Halcro SSP 100 can apply DSP to multichannel inputs only via balanced inputs rather than the common RCA inputs."

That is a bizarre limitation......???

Shawn

Kishore

01-30-07, 03:06 AM

"Halcro SSP 100 can apply DSP to multichannel inputs only via balanced inputs rather than the common RCA inputs."

That is a bizarre limitation......???

Shawn

RCA is pure pass-thru while ADC is applied for XLR (for multichannel input)?? :confused:

Cheers,
Kishore

pramod1969

01-30-07, 09:52 AM

I know it sounds very confusing, but that was the great design idea Halcro engineers came up with! Every one has a SACD/DVD-A player with RCA analog outputs but SSP 100 won't let DSP applied to analog multichannel inputs. Since it does DSP to XLR inputs, I had to order such cables to connect my equipment.

After EAD theater master DVD video/audio player has been discontinued (which had six channel balanced outputs), I haven't heard of any other player which offers such connections. I think Esoteric has one SACD player for $20,000. So I exactly don't know who would use balanced 7.1 inputs with SSP 100.

That is why I recommend SSP 80 which comes with the commonly used balanced 2 channel inputs.

Pramod

Bulldogger

02-01-07, 06:01 PM

I have not come across a HT pre-pro which can come close to a dedicated preamp ;) Meridian's ADC is good enough, BUT if you use Trifield aka 3 Ch for music (assuming u have a good center), then I highly recommend it.

I Cheers,
Kishore
Six Shooter can beat any pre-pro that I have heard but of course it is an analog pre-amp too. Better still is that it beat most dedicated pre-amps that I have heard as well that cost around 5k my usual target range. Only thing better, that I have heard in the same system is the VTL 7.5. The 7.5 is SOOOOOO NICCCCCCCEEEEEE :D.

Bulldogger

02-01-07, 06:07 PM

. I just wanted to help out those who are willing to spend under $10,000 to narrow down their choices.
Pramod
You can match or exceed the performance of the plus 10k processors. I have done it before. The reason I did not buy the CBII with original superior dacs is because the Cal Audio Labs SSP2500 beat the pants off of it in 2000 and it only cost 5000 without the external video switcher. Halcro could do the same. Again competition is a good thing.

Thunder

02-01-07, 09:10 PM

rdb001

02-02-07, 05:39 PM

I am in the roughly the same boat. I am getting Wilson Duette's and have been wrestling with the Theta CBIII v. Halcro SSP100 decision. I will use the system with a Comcast HD box, CD's, DVD'c, an occassional SACD, perhaps a Blueray player, Sonos, and Sirius. Given this thread, and the availability of plasmas with great scalers and multiple HDMI inputs (like the Fuji and the Pio Elite) the Linn Unidisk SC is looking like a smart choice right now! The main drawback is with the limited no. of inputs. Any thoughts?

Jim Swantko

02-02-07, 06:37 PM

rdb001

02-02-07, 07:43 PM

It seems to resolve the interface issues discussed here. Am I missing something?

Kishore

02-03-07, 12:02 AM

Six Shooter can beat any pre-pro that I have heard but of course it is an analog pre-amp too. Better still is that it beat most dedicated pre-amps that I have heard as well that cost around 5k my usual target range. Only thing better, that I have heard in the same system is the VTL 7.5. The 7.5 is SOOOOOO NICCCCCCCEEEEEE :D.

I have not compared 6 shooter with other preamps but I agree that 'less is more' applies and Theta did great to offer this mini-upgrade for cheap $$. Since you are 2 Ch fiend you should try Gen VIII as your DAC for fronts in conjunction with your CB3. I think you will like it.

Cheers,
Kishore

Steve Bruzonsky

02-03-07, 12:33 PM

Do you use the six shooter for movies or only CD, SACD and DVDA?

Oh yea - I use it for HD DVD via the Toshiba HD-XA1 and its fantastic. There's a thread at this forum discussing it in detail.

Bulldogger

02-04-07, 05:33 AM

Do you use the six shooter for movies or only CD, SACD and DVDA?
I use the Six Shooter for Cd/SACD and for HD-DVD with a Toshiba player. In comparison to the Toshiba, the CBIII sounded bright. Many movie sound tracks are mixed this way and I believe the Toshiba is rolled off with a slight boost in the low end. Amazing how much more I enjoy with the sound with movies by employing the shelf EQ in the CBIII.

Bulldogger

02-04-07, 05:42 AM

I have not compared 6 shooter with other preamps but I agree that 'less is more' applies and Theta did great to offer this mini-upgrade for cheap $$. Since you are 2 Ch fiend you should try Gen VIII as your DAC for fronts in conjunction with your CB3. I think you will like it.

Cheers,
Kishore
My concern is if the digital outs are still going to work when HDMI is implemented? Will the HDMI group allow Theta to pass 24/96 via the digital outs? I see a used Emm Labs Dac6 for sale. I am wondering how passing 6 channels via the digital outs to the Emm labs dac and then running the front two to a Gen VIII would sound?!!! If with HDMI you can still pass the signal to an out-board dac, then this still remains an advantage that the CBIII would have compared to the Halcro. Will the CBIII still work with no dac boards? I am thinking that I could sell my Superior II dacs and go with the Emm labs dac for at least six of the channels.

Bulldogger

02-04-07, 05:48 AM

The SC is an amazing bang for the buck. I have one for sale if you are interested. :)

(Please forgive the shameless plug). :eek:
I am sure the offer will be welcomed my a least a few here ;) . Afraid I do not need another one, since I already have TWO :D.

Allen Fleener

02-04-07, 01:56 PM

Bulldogger

Yes you can run the CBIII without dac boards. This is how you can run the CBIII with 3 or 4 GEN VIII's as your external dac's. ;)

audiman

02-04-07, 03:07 PM

Amazing how much more I enjoy with the sound with movies by employing the shelf EQ in the CBIII.

What settings are you using with the EQ ? (1,2,3 or 4 ?)

I didnt know this feature was available in the CB3.

Kishore

02-05-07, 04:34 AM

Bulldogger

Yes you can run the CBIII without dac boards. This is how you can run the CBIII with 3 or 4 GEN VIII's as your external dac's. ;)

Bulldogger, As Allen mentioned, Theta has dig out card you need to get- to plug into external DAC (Gen VIII or Meitner). FYI Gen VIII also offers pristine volume control so it is an excellent preamp by itself.

Cheers,
Kishore

sfogg

02-05-07, 09:44 AM

"Theta has dig out card you need to get- to plug into external DAC (Gen VIII or Meitner). FYI Gen VIII also offers pristine volume control so it is an excellent preamp by itself."

Bulldogger ( I believe anyway) is more concerned with if the S/PDIF outputs of the CB will be *allowed* to be used for audio passed over HDMI.

From all the copy protection paranoia I don't think they will be able to pass unencrypted high resolution over S/PDIF. In other words those S/PDIF connections to the external DACs are likely going to turn off for HDMI audio into the CB.

Notice how no DVD-A, SACD, HD-DVD or BluRay player spits out high resolution multi-channel over S/PDIF. Meridian has multiple S/PDIF outputs on their players but the data is encrypted to pass to their pre-pros where it is unencrypted then processed. The data is then re-encrypted for digital output to their DSP speakers.

Without the neccessary encryption/de-encryption in the CB and in the external DACs I don't think external DACs will be allowed to be used with high resolution inputs over HDMI.

Shawn

Bulldogger

02-05-07, 12:34 PM

What Shawn says is my concerns. If I invest in those dacs for the new formats will I even be able to use them?

Bulldogger

02-05-07, 12:37 PM

What settings are you using with the EQ ? (1,2,3 or 4 ?)

I didnt know this feature was available in the CB3.
I do not think many people are using the shelf EQ. I am using setting 2 in my room. Anything greater is too much roll-off. I believe that it would vary from room to room. I have quite a bit of 2 by 4 feet, two inch thick fiberglass panels on my walls, at least 10.

Bulldogger

02-05-07, 12:45 PM

Hmmm, new guy at least one I have never spoken with Carl Nickelson says the Theta will have to adhere to whatever guidelines the HDMI group sets. Meaning if copy protection is the likely demand then the data can not be output over S/PDIF.

Kishore

02-05-07, 12:54 PM

Bulldogger

02-06-07, 03:50 PM

I think that Theta should ad an HDMI input to the Gen VIII. I belive all the companies that make stand alone dacs are going to have to add HDMI inputs.

Bulldogger

02-06-07, 03:52 PM

What settings are you using with the EQ ? (1,2,3 or 4 ?)

I didnt know this feature was available in the CB3.
I had to turn off the Shelf EQ to watch a HD-DVD music video of "Cream" with Eric Clapton, etc., etc. Rolled off the highs with music. Easy to turn on and off with is what I do according to source material.

audiman

02-06-07, 05:02 PM

I had to turn off the Shelf EQ to watch a HD-DVD music video of "Cream" with Eric Clapton, etc., etc. Rolled off the highs with music. Easy to turn on and off with is what I do according to source material.

Since you are using the SS for HD-DVD, how does the Self Eq interfere with it ??

Bulldogger

02-07-07, 05:31 PM

Shelf Eq has no effect on the SS. The Cream HD-Dvd onlly had 5.1 DTS so I ran that through the CBIII and did not use the SS.

DaveN

02-08-07, 06:12 AM

I haven't tried the shelf eq. for years and now I can't find it in the menu. What is the remote/menu combination to access the settings?

Bulldogger

02-08-07, 04:02 PM

Hit the balance button, then the A/D button, then the EQ button number 3 I think. Then use the up and down button the same one that controls volume to select the setting.

terrym4

02-08-07, 08:27 PM

Thought I'd share this bulletin hot off the press from Halcro re: future plans for the SSP-100, which I hope will clarify some issues:

Subject: SSP100 and SSP80 Upgrades

We would like to take this opportunity to update you as to where we currently are in the upgrade process of our AV processors. As you are aware, an important aspect of the design of the SSP processors is the ability to perform upgrades, via USB and RS232, as performance enhancements become available. After months of development, a new software update is now available and is in the process of being delivered to all existing Halcro dealers who are authorized to sell Halcro Logic products. The update includes setup/save software, which allows you to save your processor settings to a computer as a backup file, remote control updates and enhancements, RS232 control files with the latest AMX and Crestron codes, and a quick setup guide. There are also updates in the firmware that improve HDMI connectivity, HDMI and component video performance, as well as improving the control of the set-up menu and video start-up.

Multi-channel PCM will be available as an optional hardware upgrade towards the middle of this year. PCM kits will be made available to authorized Halcro service centers for the convenience of our dealers and end-users. This upgrade will also be performed at our US headquarters in Las Vegas, Nevada. We believe this upgrade will be well worth the customer’s investment, as it will provide the SSP80 and SSP100 the capability to receive uncompressed multi-channel PCM streams via the HDMI interface. This allows customers to use DTS-HD™ Master Audio, Dolby™ Digital Plus and Dolby™ True HD decoders on their HD DVD®? and Blu-Ray®? players to enjoy the latest audio with full-uncompromised quality.

HDMI 1.3 is still a ways off. Developer kits are just now becoming available to specialty manufacturers. Halcro is currently researching HDMI 1.3 to determine how to best implement this new generation technology. The SSP100 and SSP80 will operate with all HDMI 1.3 products.

HDMI 1.3 is a complex format with an eight-layered board, and will take some time to sort itself out. To the best of our knowledge, there is no upgrade path to HDMI 1.3 being offered by any manufacturer at this time. We will continue to research all possible avenues and will keep our dealer base appraised as to our progress with this emerging technology.

Finally, we would also like to clear up a misconception that has been circulating recently - that a new Halcro processor to replace the SSP100 is imminent. This is simply not true. There are no new Halcro processors on the immediate horizon. While Halcro engineers continue to investigate new technologies and work towards the development of new products, the SSP100 is and will remain our flagship processor for the foreseeable future.

Steve Bruzonsky

02-08-07, 09:15 PM

Sounds like from the above that the customer must make an "investment" for the multi-channel PCM hardware upgrade. Is that right? I thought Jeff (The Bland) was told that was a feature of the surround processor that he purchased, and then he was told that the upgrade would be at no additional cost?

thebland

02-08-07, 09:45 PM

Things may have changed re:cost.

At this point, it is simply a feature that is a must have.....And it'll be less than the $6K that I would've paid for a Lex HD upgrade..

Bulldogger

02-09-07, 03:18 PM

Will the Halcro upgrade allow a 5.1 24/96 signal to be expanded to 7.1 with any form of post processing like DD PLLII?

Steve Bruzonsky

02-09-07, 03:22 PM

Things may have changed re:cost.

At this point, it is simply a feature that is a must have.....And it'll be less than the $6K that I would've paid for a Lex HD upgrade..

If they told you that your processor was to have multi-channel PCM in the first place, how come your not upset if you have to pay extra for it? Lets say its several thousand dollars, how would you feel about that?

Now is it a better investment than if you upgraded the Lex, I have no doubt that it is. I luv my Theta. But not interested in bashing the Halcro or its sonics, sounds like its a hell of a good piece for the change it costs.

PeterS

02-09-07, 06:33 PM

Steve Bruzonsky

02-09-07, 07:55 PM

Sounds pretty much like Halcro is in the same boat as Theta. I mean, Theta has decided to "skip" any interim solution sch as HDMI 1.2 with multi-channel in favor of going full boat on having the best HDMI 1.3 solution possible.

Want to put some money down on who will have the best HDMI 1.3 solution? Who will bring it to market first? Development and implementation of HDMI 1.2 actually will slow Halcro down as I doubt people will spend money on a 1.2 solution only to turn around 6 months later and spend it again on a 1.3 solution.

Good to see that Theta was VERY UPFRONT about their approach and pro-active in communicating with their customers so that people were not misled about the capabilities of their systems when they purchase them or plan to upgrade them. I feel that a number of Halcro customers must be dissapointed/upset about this turn of events.

Funny. I was thinking that, too.

Halcro's representations re multi-channel LPCM upgrade were sort of like some stuff Theta has said in the past on other things. Theta learned their lesson and this time around Theta tried to be more conservative in their representation re the LPCM upgrade. On the other hand, Halcro just ventured into surround processing and are now learning what Theta already learned. I bet next time Halcro's representation will be more conservative.

Which company, Theta or Halcro, will be first to multi-channel LPCM over HDMI?
Take your bet, step right up. We will find out. But both companies have excellent sounding surround processors. Halcro is the latest and therefore arguably the greatest on the block among some folks. But Theta is the ol' trusty racehorse that
makes it through steadily and finishes with its CB4 steed getting renewed acclaim with its LPCM and digital over HDMI.

thebland

02-09-07, 08:05 PM

Funny. I was thinking that, too.

Halcro's representations re multi-channel LPCM upgrade were sort of like some stuff Theta has said in the past on other things. Theta learned their lesson and this time around Theta tried to be more conservative in their representation re the LPCM upgrade. On the other hand, Halcro just ventured into surround processing and are now learning what Theta already learned. I bet next time Halcro's representation will be more conservative.

Which company, Theta or Halcro, will be first to multi-channel LPCM over HDMI?
Take your bet, step right up. We will find out. But both companies have excellent sounding surround processors. Halcro is the latest and therefore arguably the greatest on the block among some folks. But Theta is the ol' trusty racehorse that
makes it through steadily and finishes with its CB4 steed getting renewed acclaim with its LPCM and digital over HDMI.

I don't see it that way as a Halcro owner. This is great news. For now Lexicon is the only LPCM processor available today (nbot counting the highly flawed Anthem)

I wanted LPCM but knew there was better than the Lexicon HD.

I wish I had LPCM a couple months ago but it is what it is. Its coming.

RE: HDMI 1.3. I see no advantage of having it.

There are no HDMI 1.3 projectors and I plan on keeping mine at least another few years. I am getting a Radiance scaler and no need for 1.3 there either.

HDMI 1.3 sounds good but really does nothing on the audio side that cannot be accomplished by LPCM HDMI 1.2.

Waiting for 1.3 simply because it is on the horizon is not of interst to me. The upgrade will be cheap (probably under a couple grand) and then they can fart around with HDMI 1.3 all they want as Halcro owners will be getting uncompressed LPCM, TRUE HD an DTS MA from the HD players - via LPCM.

LEVESQUE

02-09-07, 08:48 PM

I don't see it that way as a Halcro owner. This is great news. For now Lexicon is the only LPCM processor available today (nbot counting the highly flawed Anthem)

Huh? the "highly flawed" Anthem is doing multi-ch LPCM over HDMI 1.1 since 1 year already.

Something the Halcro, with HDMI 1.1 (a crippled implementation from my position...), is not even doing after more then 1 year on the market, something that should have been working properly since day 1. Not something the owners should have to pay to make it work the way it should have since the first day!

Btw, I'm enjoying LPCM over HDMI 1.1 since the first day the first HD-DVD player came out because of the Anthem 8 months ago, and it's working flawlessly also with my Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 Blu-ray player, since the D2 can accept 1080p24 from it (something alot of high-end scaler can't even do!).

BTW, 3 Lexicon MC12 + DVDO VP50 combo owners made the switch to the D2, and those 3 now prefer the D2 to that combo, sonically AND for picture quality. Just come and ask in the D2 mega-thread for more details on their impressions...

sfogg

02-09-07, 08:57 PM

"BTW, 3 Lexicon MC12 + DVDO VP50 combo owners made the switch to the D2, and those 3 now prefer the D2 to that combo, sonically AND for picture quality. Just come and ask in the D2 mega-thread for more details on their impressions..."

Funny how you always leave out the one who tried it, absolutely *hated* the D2 and moved on.

Shawn

PeterS

02-09-07, 11:51 PM

I think you miss the point...

HDMI 1.3 into the Theta with full digital processing, decoding and output using the Theta DACs, cross-overs, etc.

I don't see how you can beat that.

thebland

02-10-07, 07:38 AM

I think you miss the point...

HDMI 1.3 into the Theta with full digital processing, decoding and output using the Theta DACs, cross-overs, etc.

I don't see how you can beat that.

You can't beat it...But you can tie it and have it sooner than later.

Decoding in the player rather than the processor still gets you to full post processing in the processor and use of the processors high quality DACs. THe exact same sound....without needing any 1.3 HDMI equipment.

In a perfect world 1.3 would be ubiquitous but you can get the same sound today simply by decoding in the player with LPCM over HDMI 1.1 /1.2.

Sure eventually we'll have 1.3 but if it means waiting a year to get it, the LPCM is the way for today.

Personally, I think Theta's sights for 1.3 are a bit overly enthusiastic. But who knows.

1.3 will eventually come but with LPCM over HDMI 1.1 / 1.2 available today, I will not rush out to buy a first generation piece. There is no sonic or video advantage at all with HDMI 1.3.

(Moreover, I'd have to re-buy a new 1.3 Blu Ray player and video prjector to get the convenience of 1.3...no thanks;).

drhankz

02-10-07, 08:34 AM

BTW, 3 Lexicon MC12 + DVDO VP50 combo owners made the switch to the D2, and those 3 now prefer the D2 to that combo, sonically AND for picture quality. Just come and ask in the D2 mega-thread for more details on their impressions...

I have to agree with LEVESQUE - I have been a Lexicon Owner and
user since Day 1 of Lexicon. I started with a CP-1, then DC-1, then
MC-12b. When I needed to upgrade to a new Pre-Pro that could
handle HMDI and PCM audio - I wanted to buy the MC-12HD. After
talking with the Lexicon Engineers - who are only 15 miles from me.
They told me - NO 1080P Support - Which I needed - I went elsewhere.

My First try was a NEW Denon that had HDMI switching. That only
lasted a month. The PCM over HDMI worked - but the audio just
wasn't in Lexicon's Class.

NEXT - I Sold my MC-12b and VP50 - to buy an Anthem D2.

That was the BEST Home Theater decision I made.

The Audio was as good as the MC-12b.

The Video was as good as the VP50.

Setup was as easy as the Lexicon and way way easier than
the Denon.

I have not experienced a single bug or flaw in my Theater.

Some people have found some incompatibilities between
some equipment and the D2. Anthem has been working
on those rare problems and have provided one FW update
a week until they get them all ironed out. Even the owners
who have seen some problems - are happy with the EXCELLENT
Tech Support they are getting from Anthem.

As a Lexicon Owner since 1996 - I was perfectly Happy with
Lexicon.

Now I'm a HAPPY Anthem D2 Owner.

sdurani

02-10-07, 02:27 PM

The Audio was as good as the MC-12b.But ONLY if you turn off the unique audio capabilities of the Lexicon (proprietary bass management, surround processing, room correction). That's like saying that the video sections of many HDMI equipped receivers are as good as the D2 if you turn off its Gennum scaler.

Sanjay

bobbi15

02-10-07, 04:49 PM

But ONLY if you turn off the unique audio capabilities of the Lexicon (proprietary bass management, surround processing, room correction). That's like saying that the video sections of many HDMI equipped receivers are as good as the D2 if you turn off its Gennum scaler.

Sanjay

I agree. While I never had the Lexicon piece, I did compare the Halcro to the Anthem and I thought the Anthem was really just a glorified receiver in a processor's body. It lacked the real surround capabilities that I found in the Halcro, so I bought that. Sonically it wasn't close. Now I'm looking at scaling down and the Arcam seems to fit the bill sonically.

thebland

02-10-07, 05:31 PM

I just gave a demo in my theater to an Anthem owner. I just finished new acoustical work on my ceiling (absorption and diffusive custom panels). Really a nice improvement in channnel separation and surround dimensionality. We didn't discuss his Anthem vs my Halcro too much but really just listened to snippets of soundtracks. Perhaps, he can comment on what he thought of the Halcro as an Anthem owner........(Art Sonneborn).

...and then a small wine tasting afterwords. The Spanish wine (blend of grenache and others) beat out the french Minervoise. But our Priorat had a bad cork and we had to pass:D

Milt99

02-10-07, 08:11 PM

But our Priorat had a bad cork and we had to pass The humanity!

Art Sonneborn

02-12-07, 12:14 PM

I'd like to thank Jeff in this thread for giving me the opportunity to listen to his fantastic system and room. I was having some concerns regarding a few specific things I was hearing in my room with few ways to get to the bottom of it. I brought along several HDDVDs to listen to which I was very very familiar with.

Interestingly and fortunately ,we found quickly that it was simply the way these tracks sounded. Getting that out of the way we listened to some other things. The Blu Ray Kung Fu Hustle being one and interesting for several reasons. I'd not yet seen this so we watched the final battle scene. I had not laughed this hard in years I bet. :D The big deal was I noticed what was without a doubt the most enveloping surround experience of my life. The Halcro just shined here. Literally, I felt like there was a spherical encompassing sound field around my head which I had never experienced before. The second thing I noticed was an incredibly clear refined reproduction. The scene where the hero removes a pin from the center of the pin wheel then drops it to the cobblestones I noticed immediately how cleanly this sound effect stood out. Of course I went out,bought the disc and watched and listened on my system without getting the same kind overall performance.

I was thinking the next day I solved one problem but as is usually the case when I visit Jeff , I now have some more to strive for.

Thanks again Jeff, you are truly a gracious man and I had a great time on Saturday. :)

Art

PeterS

02-12-07, 02:54 PM

I now have access to a Halcro SS1000 processor. In the next couple of weeks it is my intention to put together a shoot out between both the Halcro and the Theta in the Chicago area. Depending upon the timing and interest, this is possibly something that we could arrange for a group to audition as well.

Regardless, as soon as the "shoot out" has occurred, I will gladly post the results here.

Bulldogger

02-12-07, 02:59 PM

Bulldogger

02-12-07, 03:02 PM

Of course I went out,bought the disc and watched and listened on my system without getting the same kind overall performance.
I was thinking the next day I solved one problem but as is usually the case when I visit Jeff , I now have some more to strive for.

What are you using at home? I think your theater was professionally built so the acoustics should be good? If so it's just a matter of buying some better equipment.

Art Sonneborn

02-12-07, 03:50 PM

Seaton Catalyst mains,Triad surrounds,Seaton Submersive 1 subs (4) AVM 50 processor.

Art

audiman

02-12-07, 03:56 PM

At least this time, Art, you wont destroy your HT room after your visit at Jeff's place. Maybe the Processor will go away.

thebland

02-12-07, 04:12 PM

I take Art's comments as a great, great complement. He gave an AVS meet recently that knocked out the almost 70 guests. His audio has caught his video and as much as I have called myself 'king of bass', he clearly now owns the title. Even at full reference, whispers are whispers and explosions literally rock the room. He has the most impressive, dynamic set up you could imagine.

Thanks Art.....and next time I'll have a good Priorat for you to taste :D. Good seeing you.

FWIW: I just added acoustical work to my ceiling and that certainly helped the demo.:)

Bulldogger

02-12-07, 06:09 PM

Seaton Catalyst mains,Triad surrounds,Seaton Submersive 1 subs (4) AVM 50 processor.

Art
I am not famiiar with your mains but am with the rest. That's stuff should serve you well. Maybe try the Halcro. The Bland should bring his over and then you can see.

Bulldogger

02-12-07, 06:10 PM

[QUOTE=thebland
FWIW: I just added acoustical work to my ceiling and that certainly helped the demo.:)[/QUOTE]
I do not know if you have tried diffusion. I really like diffusion on the ceiling. I guess absorption works too and it depends on what you like.

thebland

02-12-07, 07:30 PM

Bulldogger,

The absorption on the front 1/3 to tame the 1st reflections.... These reflections showed up 'nicely' when we mic'd and calibrated the room.

Art Sonneborn

02-12-07, 08:14 PM

At least this time, Art, you wont destroy your HT room after your visit at Jeff's place.

True ! :o :D

Art

audiman

02-12-07, 10:20 PM

thebland

02-13-07, 07:22 AM

About Kung fu hustle : I've just realized i've recorded it on my PVR (hdtv).

This must me the weirdest movie i've seen in a long time. SQ was great with cable so i can imagine it is incredible with lossless codec.

That's the beauty... The sound is fantastic but it was the track Art and I listened to was standard 5.1 DD - no lossless PCM.

The processor really shines on legacy tracks. LPCM will probably be mind-blowing.

pramod1969

02-15-07, 04:41 PM

sfogg

02-15-07, 06:20 PM

Pramod,

"In regular DVD players there is an option to send the digital signal either via PCM or Bitsream and whenever I choose PCM over Bitsteam, the sound quality is significantly impaired. So I always choose bitstream by default (I hope this is the case with all of you with yout HT systems)."

That is a very different situation then what would occur with HDMI and LPCM.

In your DVD player you are stetting what is output over the S/PDIF connection. S/PDIF as PCM is more or less limited to two channels. Your player can send either PCM or Bitstream like you said. If you send bitstream your pre-pro decodes the DD audio and you get the full 6 channel soundtrack.

However, when you select PCM the player decodes the DD audio back to 6 channels THEN it downmixes the 6 channels to two channels and spits that out as PCM over S/PDIF. The sound would be impaired as you would then end up with matrix encoded two channel and would be running something like Pro Logic or PLII on top of that to try and extract the center and surrounds info back out of the two channel. It is the downmixing and loss of separation surround directionality that kills the sound quality.

"Can you tell me if the same thing is going to happen down the line, with choosing PCM signal over HDMI rather than waiting for HDMI 1.3 for bitstream signal?"

No, it won't happen. The reason being is HDMI can transmit more then two channels of LPCM. So the player would decode the soundtrack (which it can do just fine) and then transmit the decoded multi-channel over the HDMI connection. What the Halcro can or can't do with the multi-channel LPCM after that part I can't say.

Hope this helps,

Shawn

pramod1969

02-18-07, 07:12 PM

Thanks for that update. It clarified my questions about PCM.
Pramod

badbenzz

03-03-07, 04:16 AM

thebland

03-03-07, 07:38 AM

Well I did it, I picked up a SSP100 today and although it needs to break in still, I did note that the soundstage got wider and higher, everything is very detailed and as I had hoped there were more surround effects and dynamics. Once everything is broken in I will report further.

Congrats!

I am sure you will find it a great surround processor. I'm sure it'll amaze you. Looking forward to your thoughts on it. I am still very impressed with the sonics. Peter has one as well ,and I anticipate his comments as well. Nice guy, we chatted a bit last week on the phone.

I have heard via another AVS member that LPCM will be here in April / May at $750 with a 3 day turn-around in shipping (to Nevada).

Finally, the last piece of the sonic puzzle is here.

As Art and I were dazzled by the Kung Fu Hustle clip, in compressed DD...I can't wait to try it in uncompressed LPCM. Many Blu Ray titles are 24bit uncompressed as well. I may have to buy back in HD DVD for TRUE HD on their titles.

PeterS

03-03-07, 10:24 AM

tc828

03-03-07, 01:52 PM

I have had my SSP100 since they came out. Halcro has been great with the updates even sending me a new unit at times because I had trouble updating. I am Still amazed with the sonics with this unit( It just keeps getting better) Movie sound is the best I have ever heard(I have owned the lexicon and several others and nothing compares. Some are close but the Halcro just has IT. Both music and surround are just outstanding. You can not go wrong with this unit and their 7 channel amp. I could not be any happier. Its all about the sound.

Bulldogger

03-03-07, 03:17 PM

Still auditioning and listening to the Halcro here. Giving it some time to "break in" and compare it to the Theta on a "side by side" basis. I've been shooting it both HD-DVD and BluRay material, but only able to do so using DTS and DD - neither player has 6 channel output at this point.

It has been very interesting so far. I should be able to post something next week after some more serious listening this weekend.

Peter
What dacs in the Theta? If you are using the old dacs, I can tell you right now that there are a couple of processors on the market that better sounding than those. New dacs, different story. Not saying the Halcro is not equal to or better than the CBIII with the newer dacs. I do not know. I am saying that the old Superior dacs are not that great IMO.

PeterS

03-03-07, 05:00 PM

Superior II DACs.

Waiting to upgrade them though, as there is a good chance they will need updating for full HDMI 1.3 compatibility.

Bulldogger

03-03-07, 05:15 PM

Superior II DACs.

Waiting to upgrade them though, as there is a good chance they will need updating for full HDMI 1.3 compatibility.
Great. Looking forward to your comments. You are going to be the first person to be able to give a meaningful comparision with the newer Theta dacs vs Halcro in the same system. Superior II dacs will work for HDMI 1.3 but of course, you are limited to 24/96 which is what I am assuming you mean. Theta though has no plans for new 24/192 dacs. I hope that they change their minds about that. If the right company releases a univeral player with 7.1 analog outs, I may not even bother to get the Theta upgrade and just use my Six Shooters.

badbenzz

03-03-07, 10:18 PM

Bulldogger

03-04-07, 07:46 AM

Actually, my CBIII has extreme dacs for the front, center and sub and although I am still breaking mine it, the Halcro has more presence in the frontstage than the CBIII and the menu is so much easier than the CBIII. It's to soon to say but I might be a convert.
Sounds good. I do not believe in brand loyalty. If something that sounds better or suits your needs better, then it's time to switch. That's the context, that I am referring to in my signature. You can get so attached to gear or brand that it can blind you from getting the ultimate performance in your AV system. If it wasn't for the performance of the Six Shooter, I'd likely have switched to something else myself. There are a few features that I miss from my old processor that I wish the Theta had. If EMM labs ever releases a Switchman with wireless remote control, that would make things a lot more flexible for me. Right now, the sound out of the Six Shooter is on a level well above any of these surround processors so that keeps me a bit detached from discussion on which all in one box processor is best.

sierraalphahotel

03-04-07, 11:39 AM

Can the Theta Six Shooter be used without the Casablanca III as just a stand alone 6 channel pre-amp?

audiman

03-04-07, 12:03 PM

Can the Theta Six Shooter be used without the Casablanca III as just a stand alone 6 channel pre-amp?

nope. It has to be controlled by the CB3.

I'm still holding on my CB3 for music performance. Maybe the halcro is tad better for movies, but i'm into music listening much more than movies. 10k for a movie only unit is a bit overkill for me.

The Cb3 + B&W 802 combo produces a very wide soundstage, which i like.

Mcintosh has unveiled their new MX-136 and loewr end mx-120 with HDMI input and it wont be able to handle LPCM 5.1 thru HDMI :rolleyes:

JlgLaw

03-04-07, 01:21 PM

Picked up the SSP-80 (and the MC-50/MC-20) (prefer to scale outboard), love the sound, as does eveyone that has listened to this system. Mirrors what Jeff and other owners have been saying. What an excellent value as well!!

Jim

PeterS

03-04-07, 10:15 PM

Alright, here is a quick overview after playing with the Halcro and the Theta.

Halcro SSP100
Theta - CB3 - Superior II DACs

Benefits to Halcro:

Price
Setup
Interface (sort of)
Value (quality for price)

Benefits to Theta

Sound Quality
Flexibility of Setup
Configurability
Staging

I have been using the Halcro now for a bit over a week. It is an excellent performer. I have a few "niggles" though. First, the internal scaler is USELESS and does little more than allow you to output everything over HDMI using basic upscaling of NTSC inputs. Second, the screen on the front of the unit is ugly and only NTSC. Since the vast majority of the users of this unit will be using it with HD sources, it would have been nice to have it display HD. Lastly, I could not get the HDMI output of the video to play nicely with two different Sony projectors a Ruby or a Qualia. Now it could be that particular unit, but this is the only one I had to test.

As for sound quality, this is a nice upgrade for someone coming from a Lexicon, Outlaw or Anthem product. The sound is crisp and clean, and the staging is good - much better than the other products mentioned. Setup was very easy, and there wasn't any "tweaking" required for good sound. A little "tweaking" can then be used to improve things, but not by much. The auto-setup using the microphone input was especially simple, as we had the unit up and running in under an hour. The user interface is quite simple and easily understood on the unit. However, the remote is another story - an abomination which should be programmed into something else and then lost if at all possible. A lot of money went into this rechargable touch-screen remote - all of it a loss - YUCK!

Now, in comparing to the Theta, you have to realize I have had the Casablanca since they came out and have been through every conceivable upgrade. I know this thing inside and out. That said, it is a BITCH to learn and properly configure. However, once you master it - it is your friend for life. The Halcro does not come close to touching the flexibility or configurability of the Theta - there is no comparison here. All right, there is - the Halcro is like a Mac, user-friendly and very functional on all levels. The Theta is like a PC, a bitch to master, but extremely powerful and flexible. The analogy goes even further as the Halcro is a closed system, while the Casablanca is a modular system designed around installable cards - a la a PC.

Sonically, this is what people have been waiting for. This one goes to the Theta. While the Halcro does a very good job, it does not match the Theta in a few key areas. While the Halcro presents an excellent sound-stage which is very "crisp" and "clean", it is a little "forced" sounding. The Theta's sound-stage is more enveloping and "relaxed" - never harsh or demanding.

The best way to explain is that the Halcro sounds like a GREAT Home Theater piece, while the Theta sounds like a GREAT Theater piece, more accurately reproducing the audio quality of the best Theaters I have been in. This is most notable when listening to the score of a movie, where the Halcro becomes a little "pushy" and "strident" and the Theta blends in a bit more.

Now, realize that the Theta is at least another 50% in pricing over the Halcro. This is not a slam at all at the Halcro, it is an outstanding piece of equipment, especially for the price. It is just that Theta is a bit more - thus commanding a much higher price-point.

I would say if you are more into Action type movies and price is a concern, then the Halcro is an easy purchase.

If you are more into a wide variety of movies and music is also important (movie scores as well as stand alone audio) and you can afford the premium price-point - then you should be looking at the CB3 from Theta.

I will continue to listen to these two pieces as I have the opportunity and report back my opinions as appropriate.

Steve Bruzonsky

03-04-07, 11:59 PM

badbenzz

03-05-07, 03:12 AM

Steve Bruzonsky

03-05-07, 07:57 AM

Look, I luv my Theta gear. But lets be fair - burn-in does occur, I've heard it many, many times. And as you get to know the Halcro, you may find out more about settings to make it sing (though apparently the CB3 has many more settings so thats even that much more likely for one demoing the CB3). The question is does Peter want to keep the Halcro burning in around the clock and just use it for say another two weeks and really give it a chance to open up, and then do the comparison again? That comparison will not doubt be a fair one.

PeterS

03-05-07, 11:37 AM

The Halcro has been on, non-stop for a week, playing audio off of a server.

If 100 hours are what is recommended for "burn-in" we are well beyond that.

What I would like though is to have someone who is an "expert" on the Halcro come and set it up and listen to it through the same system. Unfortunately, there won't be the time to do that.

They are BOTH excellent pieces, possibly the two best on the market right now. If someone were to want an excellent piece for Home Theater, and budget was a concern, I would have no problem at all whatsoever recommending the Halcro.

If someone were to want "The Best" in show and was open to a bit of a learning curve (or having someone else set it up for them) - the the Theta would be where I would steer them. The sonic difference is not subtle - it is obvious, but it may come down to "taste" and preference at this point. This is not something a review can elaborate upon. However, one should preferably audition both before making a decision, as it will come down to several factors before a user should make their choice.

Audiodynamics

03-05-07, 12:41 PM

Good point Steve, my dealer said the Halcros can take anywhere from 40-100 hours before it is fully broken in. Currently I have about 10 hours on mine. I do have one complaint about the Halcro, in lieu of defaulting to dolby digital it tends to default to pro logic II and I have to manually turn the dolby digital on. It may just be a setting but I have yet to find it. The manuel says it defaults to your last setting, but mine is not doing that.

I find it takes a few hundred hours to fully burn in an SSP-100. You need to allow burn in time for each individual input type.

Example: Toslink, HDMI, Coax, 7.1 RCA Bypass, Balanced Bypass and Balanced DSP all need to be broken in systematically. At that point you will hear what the SSP-100 can really do.

Regards,

Anthony Ciaburri
Audio Dynamics Div.
Wallingford, CT

Halcro Reference and Halcro Logic dealer

Bulldogger

03-05-07, 12:59 PM

03-05-07, 01:25 PM

PterS:
As a CBIII owner configed like yours and somebody watching the Halcro closely I read your review with interest. Very interesting comparison.
Too bad you can't keep the Halcro around a little longer.
Your comparison of the difference in sound between the 2 units was similar to the way I hear the difference between digital and anlaog with the digital being a bit edgy and the analog sounding more realistic. I wonder how the 2 compare on the analog side, SS aside. Did you try that too?
I know that Badbenzz has HT as a priority but if I understood you correctly you said that you felt the CB HT presentation was superior to the Halco's. Badbenzz felt that the Halcro was better on HT with improved presence and dynamics compared to the CB...guess that's what makes a horse race.
BP

thebland

03-05-07, 01:34 PM

It is a horse race..

Peter conducted a competent comparison. Bad Benz has both so, his comparison is of interest as well. I am sure the difference are subtle and certainly system dependent. The Halcro is a great match in my system but in Peter's it looks like the CBIII fits better.

I am so glad they finally announced LPCM, pricing and a 3 day turn around time. For a whyile there, I thought it was never going to happen!

Audiodynamics

03-05-07, 01:37 PM

PeterS, well done job. It's not easy to get someone to compare two pieces in the same system and with the person having both pieces for an extended period. Thanks for going to the trouble. My old processor had the ability to send a 12v trigger depending on which pre-set was selected. Can the Halcro do that, turn the trigger on and off depending on input selected? My old theater was really automated. If my wife turned on the processor, and pressed an input, it would turn on the appropriate number of channels in the 5 channel amp, lower the screen for the input I had labeled movies, and command the dvd player of the same brand to open the drawer. My wife really loved that brand. All she had to do was hit play and watch a movie. When it was over, she turned off the pre-pro which then turned everything else off.

All three triggers on the SSP-100 are fully programable. Two of the triggers act in unison, as a pair. Therefore, you have the ability to program two triggers, while the SSP-100 provides three 12vdc outputs.

The triggers can be set to activate upon variables such as Power on, detection of a video signal, selection of an audio or video input, or even when you dim the SSP-100's front display (can be used to dim the room lights at the same time).

The trigger delay, duration and as they call it, polarity are also programmable. It's not really a change in voltage polarity, it basically sets the trigger output to a normally on state or a normally off state.

Regards,

Anthony
Audio Dynamics Div.

thebland

03-05-07, 02:19 PM

...............My wife really loved that brand. All she had to do was hit play and watch a movie. When it was over, she turned off the pre-pro which then turned everything else off.

My gosh,

What if you left your processor on its CD input...then what is your wife to do??

Does she have to get up and turn down the lights? Turn on the projector? Switch its inputs to the right one? Pick up or hit a button on a Universal to get to the DVD player's controls?

What kind of husband are you? Haven't you heard of a touchscreen with RS-232 control for true one-button control?? ;)

I am not sure if the CBIII has working RS-232 but the Halcro is fully enabled!:D:D

Art Sonneborn

03-05-07, 02:49 PM

I am so glad they finally announced LPCM, pricing and a 3 day turn around time. For a whyile there, I thought it was never going to happen!

So it sounds like a meet at your house would not be terribly far off I hope. I will be waiting to have the opportunity to hear your incredible room again. :)

Art

Bulldogger

03-05-07, 03:08 PM

My gosh,

What if you left your processor on its CD input...then what is your wife to do??

Does she have to get up and turn down the lights? Turn on the projector? Switch its inputs to the right one? Pick up or hit a button on a Universal to get to the DVD player's controls?

What kind of husband are you? Haven't you heard of a touchscreen with RS-232 control for true one-button control?? ;)

I am not sure if the CBIII has working RS-232 but the Halcro is fully enabled!:D:D
The kind who does not buy DJ equipment for my home theater and then buy a Creston to control it :D . I'm sure that the Halcro guys are glad to hear from some others with speakers that cost more than 600.00 each:D.

thebland

03-05-07, 03:29 PM

Oh c'mon...as Peter said above...the CBIII sounded more like an actual 'Theater'....Theaters use horns... (now add a '0' to the $600 and you've got the price of my monitors...(but double that for the subs:D (more DJ equipment)>.. Gotta prioritize you know..

PeterS

03-05-07, 06:47 PM

Nothing "Horn" sounding on the Theta.

Just to say that the sounds "blend" a bit better and have a bit more "spatiality" than the Halcro. The sound of the Halcro is more "discrete" than the Theta, a little less musical and a tad more "distinct".

tc828

03-05-07, 08:18 PM

Peter, Like I've said in an earlier post, I've had my Halcro for just over a year. It is the most musical piece of equipment I have ever heard, but it took it at least three to four months to get that way. It is a perfect match in my set up VSA 5 SE. I would not want any other processor. The Halcro is truly amazing with surround and it is the most non digital sound For the money I have ever heard. Is it really worth the difference in cost? To me no way.

thebland

03-05-07, 08:33 PM

So it sounds like a meet at your house would not be terribly far off I hope. I will be waiting to have the opportunity to hear your incredible room again. :)

Art

Art,

When I have the LPCM upgrade in hand, it will be meet time. One month!

Thanks for the nice comments....the sonics in the room have never been better... Chris was just over to re-check EQ and check out the ceiling treatments. I think he preferred the sound of the Halcro over my old 12B....

Talk soon.

bgarcia

03-05-07, 11:01 PM

Art,

When I have the LPCM upgrade in hand, it will be meet time. One month!

Thanks for the nice comments....the sonics in the room have never been better... Chris was just over to re-check EQ and check out the ceiling treatments. I think he preferred the sound of the Halcro over my old 12B....

Talk soon.

Jeff,

Do you know will the LPCM implementation be 7.1 or 5.1?

Thx
Bryan

thebland

03-06-07, 06:13 AM

7.1 according to my dealer......I believe it would make the Halcro the only 7.1 digital (HDMI) processor.

Brucemck2

03-06-07, 09:48 AM

Jim Swantko

03-06-07, 11:20 AM

Anyone here have experience comparing the Meridian 861v4 with either the Halcro or the Theta?

I place a far higher premium on audio than on video.

I'm particularly intrigued with "replacing" the Trifield mode on the Meridian (my default for two channel audio source material) with a "blended center" approach using the Theta.

I've spent some time with the Halcro (not with the Theta however) and currently own an 861 (which I am very happy with).

If you are looking to improve 2-channel I would highly recommend a true 2-channel pre-amp. I have yet to hear a processor that can come close to a good dedicated pre.

Trifield is a very cool feature that I enjoy - but my ARC pre gives me that same sense of 3-dimensionality and so much more.

Just another option you may want to consider.

PeterS

03-06-07, 02:57 PM

sierraalphahotel

03-06-07, 03:39 PM

If you are looking at ANALOG 2-Channel, then the Theta with XTreme DACs does a very, very good job. However, I would have to agree, that if you are after 2-channel only, then there are some pretty amazing pres which are tremendous at it. However, they are also more money.

Hi Peter,

I was planning on using the Six Shooter as a two channel pre-amp along side the Casablanca III. I intend to have an Extreme card installed for the left, right & centre channels with a Superior for the surrounds. I was told that the same "pre-amp analogue volume control section" is used by both the CBIII and Six Shooter but the Six Shooter obviously does not share any of the DSP circuits or PSU of the CBIII. I was originally going to go with Superiors all round but I am pretty sure I read that this DAC will not function with the proposed Theta HDMI implementation. I could be mistaken on this of course.

I am after a quality two channel experience (at the Six Shooter price point ;) ) and from everything put forward by Bulldogger and others it would seem the Six Shooter gives a great analogue experience for the money and is superior to the CBIII on it's own in this respect.

Brucemck2

03-06-07, 04:24 PM

I've spent some time with the Halcro (not with the Theta however) and currently own an 861 (which I am very happy with).

If you are looking to improve 2-channel I would highly recommend a true 2-channel pre-amp. I have yet to hear a processor that can come close to a good dedicated pre.

Trifield is a very cool feature that I enjoy - but my ARC pre gives me that same sense of 3-dimensionality and so much more.

Jim S ... I used to use the Ref2 Mk2, and was a hard core two channel guy (eg, Aesthetix + Basis Gold + Koetsu, etc.), but have come to greatly prefer well done and well tweaked multichannel. On only a handful of recordings have I preferred two channel over Trifield.

That being said, the Ref2Mk2 trounced the Meridian as a two channel preamp, so I know whereof you speak.

javry

03-08-07, 06:35 PM

Jim and Bruce, I agree with you both.

pramod1969

03-12-07, 10:26 PM

rbarnes

03-12-07, 11:08 PM

I was working with a dealer in Salt Lake who phoned the V.P. of marketing regarding the LPCM upgrade. The info I got back was an April/May timeframe, $750.00 for the upgrade with a 3 day turnaround from the Halcro distributor in Las Vegas where apparently the mod will take place. Hope this helps.

R. Barnes

thebland

03-13-07, 06:23 PM

Good to know..with althese great Blu Ray titles coming out in LPCM, it is difficult to bypass the ideal soundtrack for the compressed one.

javry

03-13-07, 09:08 PM

Jeff,
I must've mised a thread or two but I thought you weree a die-hard Lex fan. You may have already shared it with everyone but what caused the switch.....and is it permanent?

Bulldogger

03-18-07, 07:16 AM

Sound quality. Once he switched, he could just not go back to anything he had tried.

Bulldogger

03-18-07, 07:20 AM

Bulldogger

03-18-07, 07:29 AM

Anyone here have experience comparing the Meridian 861v4 with either the Halcro or the Theta?

I place a far higher premium on audio than on video.

I'm particularly intrigued with "replacing" the Trifield mode on the Meridian (my default for two channel audio source material) with a "blended center" approach using the Theta.
Last year, I did a comparison with the Meridian 861 vs the Six Shooter and Marantz SACD player. The Six shooter was better than the 861. I did not have time to compare the 861 to the CB3. My frat brother who's system I was using had the VTL 7.5 which showed up both Theta and Meridian for music. Considering how well the 861 did, in a comparison just against the CB3 with no Six Shooter, my suspicion is that it could win such a shoot-out. My reasoning is that the gap between the CB3 and the Six shooters seems larger than the gap between the 861 and Six Shooter with music.

javry

03-26-07, 09:21 PM

It doesn't surprise me at all that the VTL would out-gun most comers when it comes to 2 channel stuff. I wish there was a way to get the best of both the HT and 2 channel world in one system.

Joelc

03-26-07, 11:36 PM

It doesn't surprise me at all that the VTL would out-gun most comers when it comes to 2 channel stuff. I wish there was a way to get the best of both the HT and 2 channel world in one system.

There is...it is called a Meridian 861/808i/800 combination...apologies as I could not resist...

javry

03-27-07, 09:37 AM

Thanks Rene. It helps a lot.
Sooooo....the CBIII becomes like a digital pass-thru control box and the Digi out card becomes a multi-port extension of the digital output from the player? Okay....I see that. I just got my CBIII back from Theta. I wish I had thought about having the card installed while at the factory. It makes sense that this is what people would use when combining the GenVIII with the CBIII or other DAC/pre-amps [I wish I could find one with some tubes in it]. I would think this setup could get a little cumbersome if you stray too far away from the Theta set-up.

javry

03-27-07, 12:31 PM

Rene, that emoticon says it all

mjaudio

04-01-07, 10:13 PM

I thought I might add my 2 cents to this thread as I have had a Halcro SSP-100 for about a month now.

My previous processor was the Meridian G68 XXV which considering it's near $10K price tag is a direct competitor to the SSP-100.

For music I would have to give the slight edge to the G68 as the sound was more fleshed out and not as thin sounding as the SSP-100 (I only have about 30 to 40 hours on the SSP-100 so hopefully the sound will fill out more with burn in)

For movies I thought maybe there was some brand loyalty going on in this thread as having owned Lexicon in the past (great for movies but sounds like someone is pouring sand in your ears for music from all the grain) I did not think the SSP-100 could be that much better for movies. Boy were they right!!!!
I have never owned a pre-pro with so much dynamics and surround envelopment before. I have also never owned a pre-pro that blends all of my speakers and subs so well that it feels like a wall of sound that envelops you. It really is one hell of a trick with the SSP-100 as with some sounds you can look at your surround and still shake your head wondering how a sound is placed so precisely in another location. The SSP-100 does a phenomenal job of placing you in the action without sounding like a gimmick.

If you are going to judge this pre-pro solely for music than it might come up a bit short, not that it is bad, it is excellent for well recorded music. If I was a 75/25 music person than the Meridian G68 may be a better choice (I am not including the Theta Casa III and Meridian 861 as they add about 4 to 6K to the price) Then again if I was that much more into music but wanted the best movie experience as well than a dedicated 2 channel pre and the Halcro (either SSP-80 or 100) would be the way to go.
I love music but spend most of my time with TV and movies, probably 70/30 movies. I can't imagine swapping out my SSP-100 with any other pre-pro in the world and that is saying a lot for a constant upgrader like myself.

The Bland and Pramrod were not kidding when they spoke of the sound quality of the SSP-100.

Thanks guys! :D

Bulldogger

04-02-07, 02:51 PM

IThe again if I was that much more into music but wanted the best movie experience as well than a dedicated 2 channel pre and the Halcro (either SSP-80 or 100) would be the way to go.

Theta CBIII and Six Shooter. Seemless with one remote and better than most 2 channel pre-amps. No need to bother with a separate two channel pre-amp now unless you plan to buy something like a VTL 7.5 or Audio Research R 3.

Perfectionist2

04-02-07, 11:31 PM

It needs about 100 hours to really open up.

javry

04-03-07, 06:51 AM

In a separate thread a few months ago, someone mentioned using the unity gain from the CBIII out to a separate preamp. You guys know anything about this?

Audiodynamics

04-03-07, 11:43 AM

It needs about 100 hours to really open up.

If you are referring to the Halcro SSP-100, each different input type and signal path needs approximately 200 hours + of burn in time. After that, the SSP-100 will have reached it's full potential.

Example: Balanced Bypass, Balanced DSP, 7.1 Bypass, HDMI, Coax and Toslink need to be individually burned in for around 200 hours each. I suggest just running it around the clock with different source types selected.

The preamp sections (There are separate Balanced and Single Ended preamps in this baby) will obviously settle in after the first 200 hours or so.

The D/A converters will sound best after 400 hours.

Shunyata Python Alpha and Siltech Ruby Hill power cords are a great compliment to the SSP-100 processor. Plugging it into one of the "Digital" AC receptacles on a Shunyata Hydra Power Conditioner is also a plus.

Regards,

Anthony Ciaburri
Audio Dynamics Div.
Wallingford, CT

Halcro Logic and Halcro Reference Dealer and resident Halcro expert.

Go listen for yourselves. I have to admit, I am biased.

Perfectionist2

04-03-07, 09:34 PM

Thanks for the info.

I know that my SSP100 started to sound a lot better at 100 hours. Havn't reached the higher numbers yet so maybe i need more burn in.

Gino AUS

04-03-07, 11:50 PM

Is it possible to use the Six Shooter with any other preamp besides the CBIII?

badbenzz

04-04-07, 05:10 PM

Gino the answer is: NO

Bulldogger

04-08-07, 11:40 AM

In a separate thread a few months ago, someone mentioned using the unity gain from the CBIII out to a separate preamp. You guys know anything about this?
I'm curious as to how this would work. I doubt the new guy at Theta can answer this. John could have I am sure. Was if for all channels?

javry

04-08-07, 08:02 PM

no, I think it was just for running a 2 channel pre amp in a daisy chain of sorts with the CB. If I remember correctly, someone was unhappy with the 2 channel performance of the CB and posed the question. It was a couple of years ago.

mjaudio

04-09-07, 02:18 AM

thebland

04-09-07, 02:04 PM

I am liking the SSP-100 so much I am sure I will reach the 100 hour mark sooner than any other pre-amp I have owned. I will probably do some burn in when at work as well to speed up the process and hit the 200 hour mark sooner.

If you are trying to burn in the the inputs and outputs do you need to have your amp on as well? I would rather leave the amp off as my amp and speakers are already fully burned in.

Has anyone tried to compare using the HDMI input for digital audio as well as opposed to the RCA or toslink digital inputs?

I have noticed a problem with the 2 channel audio input for my Velodyne SMS-1. I was using input 4 but could not get any sound, I tried input 5 and got sound but very low and had a crackling sound at times. I was eventually able to get a suitable volume to calibrate my sub but the Halcro was cranked to +3 just to get my mains to read 83db through the SMS-1. I used my SMS-1 when I first got the SSP-100 and it worked fine then so this is odd.

Thanks for all your advice, I really appreciate it.

Mike

No sub sound?

In the menu under 'SPEAKERS', make sure you have the 'Yes' selection when the processor asks if you have a sub.;)

Areyour front speakers set to large? If so, check crossover settings.

Source #7 and #8 are for CD sound. Use 7 for a balanced output from your CD player or use Source 8 and connect the digital coax to digital coax input #3 on the halcro. With the Halcro, you should try and use the default settings for given gear. See page 35 of the manual.

No sound difference in Tos, coax, and HDMI digital.

audiman

04-10-07, 05:26 PM

I dont think that using a GEN 8 with the CB3 would work with the futur HDMI card.

sfogg

04-11-07, 09:39 AM

"In that case there is no change compared to now:
hdmi-in > CB3 > AES or dig-RCA connection > Gen8."

Unless Theta is not allowed to pass full resolution audio from HDMI over unprotected S/PDIF. Which they may not be allowed to do.

Shawn

sfogg

04-11-07, 12:43 PM

"hdmi transports (lossless) PCM, which arrives as such in the CB3 (as soon as hdmi-input is available) and that CB3 will furthermore do what it is doing now already: it transport that PCM signal via SPDIF to Gen8."

The point is the lossless PCM is protected by HDCP encryption. It isn't likely that Theta is going to be able to turn around and pass that same data over unprotected S/PDIF.

Look at Meridian for example. Their DVD-A player has 3 S/PDIF outputs, but it passes data over them encypted. Likewise in a digital theatre system the digital S/PDIF outputs for their pre-pros are all encrypted to their DSP speakers.

Shawn

Bulldogger

04-15-07, 08:44 AM

Bulldogger & Javry,

I know that in case of a chain like [CB3 + Gen8 + preamp] volume is controlled via the CB3:
# Gen8 volume at position-73 = 2 volt out
# preamp at unigain (in=out), not full gain (too much noise)

Note that the Gen8 is a dac+preamp unit. So the chain is CB3 dig-out connected to Gen8 which is used as dac only and the preamp is an audiophile seperated one. Here the Gen8 and seperated preamp (buffers only) are slaves mastered by the CB3.

Hope this helps, Rene
What happens if you use the tape out, with the main dac selected and a digital source inputted? Seems like you get to use the CBIII as a dac via the tape out? I do not have a separate pre-amp to test this.

javry

04-15-07, 10:07 AM

What happens if you use the tape out, with the main dac selected and a digital source inputted? Seems like you get to use the CBIII as a dac via the tape out? I do not have a separate pre-amp to test this.

that sounds more like what was being discussed. I think the question was whether there was a way to bypass the pre amp and just use the DAC for the front two channels while still allowing full pre/pro capability for everything else. I seem to recall that the tape loop was brought up as a possible option but I'm not sure anyone tried it to see if it would really work. Sure would be neat to know.

mjaudio

04-22-07, 07:22 PM

No sub sound?

In the menu under 'SPEAKERS', make sure you have the 'Yes' selection when the processor asks if you have a sub.;)

Areyour front speakers set to large? If so, check crossover settings.

Source #7 and #8 are for CD sound. Use 7 for a balanced output from your CD player or use Source 8 and connect the digital coax to digital coax input #3 on the halcro. With the Halcro, you should try and use the default settings for given gear. See page 35 of the manual.

No sound difference in Tos, coax, and HDMI digital.

I got sound from my sub but when calibrating the subwoofer using the SMS-1 it outputs a tone that is picked up by the mic from the SMS-1. You have to mute the sub that is connected to the SMS-1 and turn the volume up on your pre-pro until it reads about 80db. The SMS-1 outputs the tone via L/R RCA outputs to the pre-pro and I was having trouble getting the tone at all from the Halcro. Turns out a re-boot of the Halcro fixed the problem and beautiful room corrected bass is filling the air!!!!!!!!!

I really haven't noticed much sound difference with the Tos, coax, and HDMI digital either but have not really sat down to compare critically (so happy with the sound that I am not sure if I want to waste the time to compare anyway)

Thanks for all the comments and advice Bland, it is really appreciated.

javry

04-23-07, 01:43 AM

I'd be curious to know if you hear any difference between tos and coax. Personally, I don't hear a significant difference but there are folks who seem to prefer one over the other.

mnbasser

04-23-07, 10:47 AM

For you folks that are thinking Halcro....Don't forget about the SSP-80. Sonically it's equal to the 100 and if you have a quality projector or scaler ie (DVDO VP-50), then you probably wouldn't use the scaler in the SSP-100 anyway or Anthem for that matter.

Although, I have not seen the scaler in the Anthen, I bet that it is no better than the DVDO scaler or the processing chips in a 1080P Runco, Vidikron or other highend projector. If your projector or display device is SOTA, then you probably won't use the scalers in your pre-pro. IMHO

LEVESQUE

04-23-07, 11:56 AM

Although, I have not seen the scaler in the Anthen, I bet that it is no better than the DVDO scaler or the processing chips in a 1080P Runco, Vidikron or other highend projector.

You are wrong here. And you would loose your bet.:) I was able to compare the Anthem D2 scaler to the DVDO VP50 and Crystalio II, and the D2 is easily on the same level with those 2 for picture quality. That was with a Sony Ruby VPL-VW100, JVC HD-1 (RS-1 clone), Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 Blu-ray player and Toshiba HD-XA2 HD DVD player.

I'm not alone. There is around 8-9 AVS members who made the switch from the DVDO VP50 to the Anthem D2 in the last months, and they all prefer the Anthem for picture quality with HD. With SD, the VP50 is slightly better, but not by much. You can come and ask in the gigantic Anthem D2 thread on AVS if you want some other testimony then mine (just click on the link in my signature...).

And the D2 is ALOT easier to work with when dealing with the new HD audio formats over HDMI. 1080p24 is also working better on the D2 then on both the DVDO VP50 and Crystalio II.

mnbasser

04-23-07, 01:40 PM

[/QUOTE]You are wrong here. And you would loose your bet. I was able to compare the Anthem D2 scaler to the DVDO VP50 and Crystalio II, and the D2 is easily on the same level with those 2 for picture quality.

I stand corrected. If it is that good, then I'm impressed.

Bulldogger

04-26-07, 10:22 AM

that sounds more like what was being discussed. I think the question was whether there was a way to bypass the pre amp and just use the DAC for the front two channels while still allowing full pre/pro capability for everything else. I seem to recall that the tape loop was brought up as a possible option but I'm not sure anyone tried it to see if it would really work. Sure would be neat to know.
I tried it and it works. You can use the CBIII as a dac via the tape out. All other functions appear to work as normal in unison with the information being output via the tape out. I just hooked up a small lcd television to confirm that if I feed in a digital source, I could get the analog out of the tape out if I wanted to use a separate pre-amp instead of the internals of the CBIII for volume. I do not have an idea of how good or bad this sounds but must say, the 19 inch LCD television has never sounded so good :). You can mute the volume on the CBIII and there is no effect on the tape out. However, in the tape out menu, I selected tape out and coax 1 which is where I have the digital source inputting into the CBIII. If I switch to an input that in not set-up for coax input 1, then of course I lose the sound. What I wanted to know is if I could loop this sound back into the Six Shooter. This did not appear to be possible. Should work fine with a separate pre-amp. Since the tape out appears to be a straight line level signal with no volume controls, it would appear to be bypassing the internal volume control of the CBIII.

javry

04-26-07, 05:05 PM

Bulldogger

04-26-07, 06:25 PM

Given the signal went to your TV, it sounds like the CBIII is still pre amping. If you hook the tape out signal to an external pre amp the worst that could happens is you would be pre amping twice. Anybody know if that's an issue?
No. A television acts like a pre-amp and amp when it receives a line level signal. For example if you take the stereo out of a vcr, usually a line level signal, you could run that into a pre-amp and hear the audio or into a TV set. Usually it is a two volt signal I believe. The TV test makes me believe it is just the same kind of line level signal. You would not be pre-amping twice. Besides, that is what a tape out is, a line level signal that is not pre-amped that is designed to send a line level signal out either to a separate system or some type of analog recorder. I did not really prove anything only that the tape out is in fact a tape out that can output from the main dac which is what the owners manual says.

javry

04-27-07, 02:23 PM

so it goes straight from the DAC to the TV....bypassing the preamp in the CBIII? sure?

Bulldogger

04-29-07, 08:06 AM

That is what I am assuming as the signal out of the tape out does not vary in level and appears to not be controlled by the pre-amp section of the CBIII. It would seem more complex to take the output of the dac, then run it to the preamp and then try to get a signal from that. The simple solution would be to take the signal off the dac after the digital to analog conversion and split it. Then feed the pre-amp section of the CBIII for volume control out of the Casablanca and also feed a line level signal going directly to the tape out. Right were the signal is coming off the dac would seem the most logical place to get the line level analog signal with no involvement of the pre-amp section.

Bulldogger

04-29-07, 08:14 AM

Ok, if you look at the block diagram on page, 127 of the owner's manual you can see that this is in fact what is happening. The signal comes off the dac and goes to the tape out bus and is also split to the level controls in the CBIII. I guess I should have looked there first. Now I am 100% certain that the tape out does not go through the pre-amp. The sound out of the tape out is straight off the dac when a digitally inputted source is selected. When the source is analog, the source is split directly to the tape out as well and also to the pre-amp section.

javry

04-29-07, 09:35 AM

This is kind've exciting. I took a look at page 127 and it does indeed show it as you explain it. Page 49 gives some more useful information on how to use the Tape Out jack. I was wondering which DAC the Tape out function selects but it is clear that you make that choice by going into the Tape Out menu. I guess the next question is whether the Tape Out function, while independent of pre/pro will still function while the pre amping and processing of the other DACs is going on. In other words, will they work simultaneously?

javry

04-29-07, 02:13 PM

On page 50, the manual says that you shouldn't try to decode multi-channel sources through the Tape Out becuase it doesn't contain the decoding capability and that all you would get is a lot of noise coming out. Hmmmm. I think that probably answers my question. While the Tape out is functional, it won't do what I was hoping it would do.

Bulldogger

04-29-07, 04:26 PM

While the Tape out is functional, it won't do what I was hoping it would do.
What were you trying to do?

javry

05-01-07, 06:03 PM

Bulldogger

05-02-07, 05:01 PM

Hilo Hairy

05-04-07, 10:43 AM

I was trying to find a way, short of getting a digi out card and a GenVIII, of hooking up an outbaord preamp that would service the front 2 mains while still engaging the rest of the speakers in surrond sound mode.

I'm figuring that what you're trying to do is get even better sound than from your front Dacs.

I can't find my manual right now but I'm pretty sure I remember that the tape out Dac isn't up to the quality of the current main Casablanca Dacs choices. To use for making analog cassettes or for a second room, it wouldn't need to be.

javry

05-04-07, 02:57 PM

You get noise if you use the optional Tape Out dac. If you just use the regular tape out, it will work without noise. You get the noise because the optional tape out dac can not decode DD or DTS. You can use a two channel pre-amp for the front two channels and still use the CBIII for the rest of the channels just fine. If you want to hear all of the channels through the tape out you have to select phantom center and phantom surrounds. You will not get noise through the regular tape out dac.

This sounds so interesting, I'm very tempted to try it. Have you hooked thoings up this way with your system? Here's what I was thinking:

1. to use the Tape out as a bypass of sorts going straight to the outboard preamp when listening to 2 channel only. In this case I would just simply turn the surround DACs off.

2. When watching movies, have the outbaord preamp still support the 2 front speakers while letting the rest of the DACs support the center and surrounds. I'm assuming that surround sound would be mixed only through the speakers that are still tied to the CBIII, which could be an issue. Your thoughts?

Hilo,
I thought I read in the manual that you get to assign what DAC you want for the tape out loop....in which case, I would certainly choose the xtreme....assuming that is indeed the case.

Bulldogger

05-05-07, 06:39 AM

Hilo,
I thought I read in the manual that you get to assign what DAC you want for the tape out loop....in which case, I would certainly choose the xtreme....assuming that is indeed the case.
The optional tape out dac and the standard tape out are separate things. I do not believe I have the optional tape out dac so what I am getting from the tape out is coming off my Superior II dacs. Even if you do have the optional tape out dac, you can still chose to use the standard tape out dac which is directly off the main dac as per the diagram we discussed.

Bulldogger

05-05-07, 06:46 AM

This sounds so interesting, I'm very tempted to try it. Have you hooked thoings up this way with your system? Here's what I was thinking:

1. to use the Tape out as a bypass of sorts going straight to the outboard preamp when listening to 2 channel only. In this case I would just simply turn the surround DACs off.

2. When watching movies, have the outbaord preamp still support the 2 front speakers while letting the rest of the DACs support the center and surrounds. I'm assuming that surround sound would be mixed only through the speakers that are still tied to the CBIII, which could be an issue. Your thoughts?

According to the manual, this should work fine. I have not tried it. You may be on to something! I will try it and see how it works. I think Steve uses his Xtreme dacs for Red book . So, if the dacs are very good quality and you can get the line level signal and use that with a good two channel pre-amp, this may sound very good.

javry

05-05-07, 02:40 PM

It would be great if this works. I'll be anxious to read your results.

zoestanley

05-25-07, 05:52 PM

mjaudio

05-25-07, 07:54 PM

I use the HDMI inputs but do not use the scaler except for a VCR that never gets used. As others have stated the scaler is not the best but I am more concerned with the audio. No Genunm scaler is going to make up for the differences I experienced with movies.

GinaKim

06-09-07, 01:21 PM

I am SOOO considering the Halcro now...

(it helps that is looks great too... ;) )

casualgolfer

11-25-07, 03:30 AM

thebland

11-25-07, 07:12 AM

Thanks PeterS for confirming my suspisions about SS100 sound being dry and uninvolving. To me achieving the best possible audio and video is everything. There is no one unit that does best for both which is why my set up consists of CBIII with extreme dacs and Gen VIII for audio with DVDO VP50Pro(much better than VP50 I had before) for video(I have Lumagen RadianceXD on order to compare with VP50Pro). I use Kharma speakers and Virtual Dynamics cabling.

I was never impressed with sound of Halcro. I went to audition DM-88 power amplifer($35K) at LA Audio in their highest end room with Wilson Alexandria X-2 speakers($125K), VTL preamp and Nordhost cables. I compared this set up with VTL Siegried amps($45K) and Eben($100K) speakers. Halcro amp sounded dry, soundstage collapsed and uninvolving, not musical at all. In comparison, VTL Siegfied amps blew Halcro amps away by sounding like live music with immense soundstage, harmonic richness and texture, dynamic and just plain musical and involving.

Theta equipment is the best sounding digital gear I have tried to date except for my MBS Platinum Dac III CD player with step ladder dacs($13k). It would be easy for me to buy SSS100 for $5,500 street price but what's the point, I won't get the quality of sound I'm looking for. Thanks again. PeterS.

You know, I know what you mean.. When I bought my Sony Qualia 3 years ago I looked at JVC HD2K for comparison. I found it to to lack the depth of color, uniformity and light output that I expected...Now granted I drew these conclusions of the JVC projector by using a JVC D-VHS deck (5U) that I owned.....but like you, I found that though they are completely unrelated products, the poor performance from the JVC D-VHS player somehow mimicked what I would expect to see with in $25K projector. In the end, I went with another manufacturer for my projector needs but it was that JVC deck that ruined it for me when assessing the JVC projector. I suppose I should have actually spent some watching with the JVC rather than drawing conclusions on it by assessing another unrelated piece in their line up.... Perhaps you, too.

I guess if I really wanted to bore you, I could go on how my Panasonic screw gun was the impedus for me going Panasonic in the Blu Ray player round up. But the reasoning there is more bizarre........;)

We all like what we already own and enjoy putting down what we haven't heard...but in the end, it doesn't further one's experiences.

So, if you can afford to look at $200,000 systems and you own a processor that lacks HDMI (and may never have it), why not throw down on the $5500 deal to get to the next gen processors? For a big spender like you, think of it as a 'throw away' piece if you find, after actually listening to it, that it doesn't blow away your dated CBIII.

Cheers!

(peters is a nice guy, but I would assume that someone who takes time to audition equipment in various venues might do so for a processor and draw one's own conclusions rather than assuming a certain forum user is the be all end all - particularly when he already owns a Theta (bias?)....you know what they say about assume....

EDIT: Are you the same casualgolfer who poster this:

My ae700 went out about three months ago and took it to local Panasonic service center VSS in Laguna Hills who said would charge $150 just to take a look at projector problem but would apply this charge towards fixing the projector..........The fan if I need it is $20 from Panasonic but the Ballast B-Module is $200. Hopefully, the problem is just power supply as many onwer's are posting because the symtom is exactly the same as everyone is describing

You throw around some very large numbers on super exotic audio equipment. With the audio system you speak of at home, worth 10s of thousands of dollars, a VP-50 video processor and a Lumagen Radiance on order ($7K worth of video processors), why do you use such an inexpensive 720P projector ($1500)?? And, moreover, to buy a service manual for it, to fix a $20 power supply and complain about the cost of service? Your CBIII likely cost you near $20K and your speaker cables appear to be more expensive than your projector? Something is not adding up here....:D

mjaudio

11-25-07, 09:32 PM

jbm007

11-25-07, 11:40 PM

You think its easy being him????

euryd

11-26-07, 02:40 AM

For owners of the Halcro SSP100: Have you tried the 7.1 balanced analog bypass input. How does this sound? I currently have the Theta Cas 3 and am using the 6-shooter for SACD multichannel bypass. Does the Halcro SSP100 have the same equivalent feature thru the balanced analog bypass? Thanks.

badbenzz

11-26-07, 04:26 AM

And I thought this thread was dead. Casualgolfer, Since getting my SSP100 I never missed the CBIII and now that it is getting upgraded I know I made the right choice for me. As far as the sound of the SSP100 it is more eneveloping in my system than the CBIII and I really liked the CBIII. Once upgraded I can stop going over to MJ's house to listen to the uncompressed sound.

mnbasser

11-26-07, 11:06 PM

casualgolfer

11-28-07, 01:48 AM

Wow, nothing like stirring up group of loyal SS100 owners. Actually, many replies are points well taken. I've gone the dedicated tube preamp for audio route for stereo listening but found that Theta Generation VIII holds its own with its great analog preamp section and since have found no need for dedicated preamp for audio. I no longer listen to analog disc(I sold my GoldMund Reference RO turntable as its constant maintenance was a headache). Having used to great analog sound and many years of concert hall listening, digital sound has been a dissapointment for me. The only gear that comes close to great analog sound has been Theta especially with GenVIII. I have a hybrid audio and home theater system and still feel that there is room for improvement. Actually I'm very interested in Krell's Evo707 processor as it uses all class A discrete electronics in audio circuit but I don't know if its out yet. The draw back as I see with SS100/SS200 and even EVO707 is upgrade since these units are not modular and in case of SS100, I believe it shares power supply for video and audio which I feel is a cardinal sin that pollutes audio section.
As far as I can tell EVO707 design completely isolates audio and video electronics. High end in current video is 1080P/120 so companies like Anchor Bay and especially Lumagen is more likely to respond with software updates with new video features that keep up with sota in video trends which is the reason why I chose to go the route of seperate best of breed for audio and video.

I welcome any suggestions but I just can't get the demo out of my mind with Halcro amps sounding so mediocre. Stereophile must have gotten paid off big time for their review on DM68 and DM88 amps. I welcome any SS100 owner to bring their unit to do shoot out with my CBIII to prove their point that its a better sounding processor. If no one steps up, I just may try SS80 as suggested(IMHO video section in SS100 is a joke and may even be detrimental to audio).

casualgolfer

11-28-07, 01:58 AM

BTW, DVDO VP50 Pro that I upgraded to is a huge improvement over standard VP50 with additional mosquito noise reduction and higher contrast ratio to the point where standard VP50 looks noisy, flat and two dimensional as opposed to VP50 Pro which looks clean, 3 dimensional and life like from the same scaled satellite SD content. I am also getting Lumagen RadianceXD so I'll be making comparison.

casualgolfer

11-28-07, 09:02 AM

mjaudio, have you taken a look the date I had Panny projector. Since then I had purchased 63" Fujitsu plasma as well as new JVC DILA 1080P projector which just replaced Epson projector. Yeah I was bitching because I don't believe in wasting money. I buy quality stuff but never retail. These high end audio and video stuff is like buying a new Bentley, soon as you drive off the show room, it's worth 50% less or even worse in some cases. I have developed many great connections and buy stuff at dealer cost or close to it and in many instances second hand stuff through Audiogon that has gone through the initial depreciation.

mjaudio

11-28-07, 12:00 PM

badbenzz

11-28-07, 12:26 PM

mjaudio you being blamed again.......I remember telling the police you were not driving the white bronco

mjaudio

11-28-07, 02:40 PM

mjaudio you being blamed again.......I remember telling the police you were not driving the white bronco

If the Panny doesn't fit, you must acquit:D

javry

11-28-07, 03:00 PM

If the Panny doesn't fit, you must acquit:D

I'll ditto that and raise you one:D:D

Will Binegar

11-28-07, 05:40 PM

mjaudio you being blamed again.......I remember telling the police you were not driving the white bronco

If you'll recall, his buddy Al was driving... :D

casualgolfer

11-28-07, 09:08 PM

Sorry mjaudio. I was addressing thebland. I was just trying to make a point that I don't throw away money. There is a difference between indiscriminate consumption of money vs spenidng money based on good value. At the time I bought Panny AE700 720P/1080i was the best available technology and value. 1080P projector costed $25K and proactially no osurces were available. Didn't make sense to buy into 1080P technology. Now, its different. Anyway, you get what you pay for and Panny was a waste of time and money and I was bitching about bad quality and support with the product along with rip off service center on cheap product. I don't like to loose money on stuff I buy but somethings you can't help. I've made money on stuff like I purchased $40K retail Dynaudio Evidence Temptation from a guy who was desperate for cash at $14K. I used it for a little over a year and sold it for $17K to buy Kharma Grand Midi for 15K(retails 40K) which to me sounds much better. Now, this is moe of an exception to the depreciation of the stuff you buy but I tried to minimize my loss of using the stuff I buy and enjoy.

Having said the above, I wouldn't mind trying SS80 if I can pick up a great deal so that if I don't like it, I'll flip and sell it. I have developed many and great reputation in Audiogon and Ebay so I have no problem selling stuff. As much a ho as I am on av equipment, if I had to pay retail on these stuff, I'd be broke.

jbm007

11-28-07, 10:47 PM

Steve Bruzonsky

11-28-07, 10:55 PM

If I had your ears I would burn mine.

Actually is his brains that know how to use and interpret what goes thru his ears. So you would need a brain transplant but you can keep your ears. And of course you'll have to buy Theta gear, any other gear is contraindicated for your recovery from a brain transplant. Ask Mr. Spock, he had one of those I believe.

casualgolfer

11-28-07, 11:33 PM

If I had your ears I would burn mine.

Ok Mr. Golden ear, I looked at your posts and you have nothing positive to contribute to this board and are one negative, self righteous, and cynical person hell bent on discrediting anything but what you own and trash Theta and other manufacutrers and their owners. I'm not advocating Theta is the best digital. To wit, my MSB sounds better and I have many audiophile friends who have heard my system and confirmed the same. I hold great center row season ticket at Disney Hall and play many instruments as hobby. I aspire for natural sound and classical music is my preference. I don't like over emphasized bass effects like some kids and from your posts you're probably one of. I have been an audiophile for many years and have owned equipment of all kinds. It sounds like it was a stretch for you to get what you have and you hate anyone who posts messages that my decrease the value of what little assets you have.

Texas25

12-25-07, 04:49 AM

Steve Bruzonsky

12-25-07, 07:50 AM

Hi there,
Just a question, I own a Theta Casanova. Now I want to buy a Theta CBIII for all the right reasons. And in the near future I like to implement Blue Ray. Oke her it comes::cool:

I own digital speakers: 5x Focal SM8 (digital in, DAC onboard) and 2x JLaudio (F113)
If I’m looking for a CBIII with only a digital out card onboard, will this work well? (Because I don’t need the DAC’s intern):D

Futher.... If theta ever gets the HDMI 1.3 right, will I get it work like this???
Blue Ray > HDMI > CBIII > Digital out > Focal SM8

Anybody? I will be a waste if I have to run the SM8’s analog in.

Please let me know…:confused:

Thx

Alex

Since Theta doesn't have HDMI audio yet, and "the fat lady hasn't sung",
how would any of us know the answer? One would hope so. But do you wanna spend your money on "hope" when there's no guarentee as of yet?
We do know that if you don't care about HDMI audio that the current CB3 otherwise does what you want.