Is there anything the ReadyNAS provides for accessing media from a TVIX 5000 that you can't do just using a PC with a bunch o storage (other than the PC having to be turned on)? I'm thinking a ReadyNAS would be a great future purchase, but just having dropped 2500 on new PC, I'd like to be able to use the storage there for awhile.

Thanks in advance.

Is there anything the ReadyNAS provides for accessing media from a TVIX 5000 that you can't do just using a PC with a bunch o storage (other than the PC having to be turned on)? I'm thinking a ReadyNAS would be a great future purchase, but just having dropped 2500 on new PC, I'd like to be able to use the storage there for awhile.

Thanks in advance.

* Hardware raid capabilities
* Less power consumption - @$0.10/kwh (a guess) and 200w less than a PC (while the PC would otherwise be off), that would save you about $100/year plus any environmental benefits you want to add to the equation
* Less finicky - think "reboots"
* May be faster - I am probably stepping on a landmine there

On the other hand, there is the initial purchase price and the (probably) lower flexibility relative to the PC.


Bill

Sounds like I'm sticking with the PC. I never turn off my main PC anyhow and at $2500, it better have raid :)

Thanks for the feedback.

So my question is:

With the rapid FALL in hardware prices why do NAS devices retail for so much still? Surely they should fall in prices as, Quarter to Quarter , just as PCs get either cheaper or very much faster (upgraded hardware/cpus etc). The basic cpu of an NAS deevice would not seem to need upgrading very often and the HD get cheaper and the software is a constant....

So my question is:

With the rapid FALL in hardware prices why do NAS devices retail for so much still? Surely they should fall in prices as, Quarter to Quarter , just as PCs get either cheaper or very much faster (upgraded hardware/cpus etc). The basic cpu of an NAS deevice would not seem to need upgrading very often and the HD get cheaper and the software is a constant....

Because time is money.

And no matter how much I, and all you other mushroom farmers, like geeking out & building boxes and tweaking hardware.....There comes a point when some of us would rather spend our time pluging & chugging with an off the shelf NAS box, than auditioning hardware and software raid solutions in our rig(s) before entrusting home movies to it / them.

That's why.

YMMV

Dunno bout you dudes but between managing content and such between
2 ReplayTVs
2 Xboxes w/ XBMC
1 HTPC w/SageTV (For HiDef)
1 ReadyNAS
and tech support for the rest of the kin's PCs......

I sometimes question my sanity.

The nail has been hit squarely on the head.

Looking back 5 years ago, I ran my own web/email/fileserver.

Then I moved my web/email offsite to a hosting company.

Then I moved my email to Google Apps for Domains (basically gmail boxes @yourdomain ). No more dealing with my own spam filtering to replace the hosting company's out of date install of spam assassin.

Then I replaced my aging linux fileserver with a Thecus N5200 NAS. Now I don't have to worry as much about software/OS updates and messing around with hardware more than plugging in drives into the front loading trays and the cables. Plus many newer NAS devices have features that even most DIY NAS PCs do not (or would equalize in price to add)... hot swappability, hardware RAID, dual gigE, lower power usage, usable as a USB drive also, etc...

As I get older, I want to manage all this crap less and less. :)

So my question is:

With the rapid FALL in hardware prices why do NAS devices retail for so much still? Surely they should fall in prices as, Quarter to Quarter , just as PCs get either cheaper or very much faster (upgraded hardware/cpus etc). The basic cpu of an NAS deevice would not seem to need upgrading very often and the HD get cheaper and the software is a constant....


i think it to do with volume production. most people are not looking at a NAS and dont realise the risks of just pc storage...so until it becomes mainstream...it will still be an early adopters product...and since the production volumes arent there, the price will remain high..

A lot of people are in sync with their thoughts and we all seem to have similar trends with morphing server stuff etc.

Slimdevices offers a nice mix of NAS + 2 SqueezeBoxes

Now I have just seen this item (see url below). We are getting into the MUST HAVE pricing range very soon.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/25/buffalos-hd-qsu2-r5-drivestations-2tb-and-yummy-esata/

* Hardware raid capabilities
* Less power consumption - @$0.10/kwh (a guess) and 200w less than a PC (while the PC would otherwise be off), that would save you about $100/year plus any environmental benefits you want to add to the equation
* Less finicky - think "reboots"
* May be faster - I am probably stepping on a landmine there

On the other hand, there is the initial purchase price and the (probably) lower flexibility relative to the PC.


Bill
Hardware raid can be had in a PC with a raid card.
To me, the cost of RAID like the Infrant NAS is still too high for what it offers vis a vis a dedicated file server. Most of what you pay goes to pay for the IP of the proprietary software. The rest of the hardware are technology easily available in today's computers.

Hardware raid can be had in a PC with a raid card.
To me, the cost of RAID like the Infrant NAS is still too high for what it offers vis a vis a dedicated file server. Most of what you pay goes to pay for the IP of the proprietary software. The rest of the hardware are technology easily available in today's computers.


and multiply setup time times 80$ an hour and the NAS will be cheaper. My readynas was working 15 minutes after I bought it and have spent less than an hour on it in 10 months.... Wish I could say that for any of my PC's or Macs running win,osx, or linux....

Sean

Hardware raid can be had in a PC with a raid card.
To me, the cost of RAID like the Infrant NAS is still too high for what it offers vis a vis a dedicated file server. Most of what you pay goes to pay for the IP of the proprietary software. The rest of the hardware are technology easily available in today's computers.

When I priced it out I was looking at:
ITX case/barebones system with 2-3 5.25" bays
CPU
Memory
4 3.25" drive bay hot swappable disk enclusure with drive trays (to go in the 5.25" bays)
RAID card
gigE card(s) or on-board preferred
SATA cables
512MB-1GB CF card + IDE to CF converter for boot/OS disk.

It wasn't much cheaper than a diskless NAS such as the ReadyNAS, Thecus, or other NAS options. Add in build/config/troubleshooting time, and its a no-brainer for me.

If you go for a cheap desktop/server case and don't care about hot swappable drive trays, then sure, you can keep the price down but the power consumption (and mostly likely the noise) will be higher.

I think you are all exagerating on the specs of these PC, I mean your max throughput is limited by your bandwidth anyway, a perfectly usable P4 with simple IDE drives is fine.

I went one step further and got some old Xeon servers with an on board SCSI channel, I use the SCSi channel for the boot drive (9GB one and 18GB the other) and in each server I have 4x 400GB IDE disks. Simple. The IDE disks are used very little compared to SCSI disk consequently they are extremely ulikely to fail.

I rip DVDs via an ancient firewire external enclosure in which I have put a £20 DVD reader. Switch it on only when I need it.

All hidden under the stairs...no noise...no hassle....any admin is done by remote desktop from work using no-ip.org to fix the DHCP problem.

Actually the less periferals are installed the lower the chance of having to do any admin. Also go to the bios and enable "boot on power restore"...so they restart automatically if the power fails...

Its all a matter of what you are looking for. My NAS replaced an aging P3-600 Linux box that I was tired of baby sitting, patching, upgrading.

I was looking for the following in a file server (in random order):
1. Energy efficient - minimal peripherals, power management, low power CPU, low wattage PSU, etc.
2. Small form factor - takes up as little space as possible. I want the option of having it on my desk or in a closet and maintain WAF. Travels easily.
3. Minimal setup and maintenance - 10-20 minutes to install the drives, configure the RAID, and let it go. Little chance to misconfigure or 'break' something. Firmware/OS upgrades take less than 5 minutes.
4. Hot swappable, externally accessible drives.
5. Ability to use it as a USB drive if I want
6. SMART monitoring and failed drive notifications (email, buzzer, LED, etc).

Quite frankly, an 'old server' (such as the one I replaced) would offer very little of that and the time to build and configure a new one is not what I wanted. To each their own. If an old server with a bunch of PATA disks suits your needs than great... but it wasn't getting it done for me.

For me, the only downside is lack SSH/shell/script support... but for my needs, that is simply a 'nice to have'.

Hardware raid can be had in a PC with a raid card.

No kidding?

The OP asked what the benefits were over his existing PC and I seriously doubt if his existing PC has a RAID card built-in.

This thread is predictably oscillating between responses from folks that want functionality without hassle and responses from folks that want maximum functionality regardless of the hassle.

There is no right or wrong, there are just different priorities.

Windows vs. Linux: GO! :p


Bill

One nice feature of the ReadyNAS is the ability to dynamically replace disks with bigger ones without requiring a backup/restore. Last I played with any PC-based RAID solutions (Promise, etc) that was not true. That may have changed but, if not, it is a huge plus to me.

As disk gets cheaper, I just take the 5 minutes to swap out a drive and my RAID gets larger....

-Jon

Also NFS is trivial with ReadyNAS and (at least currently) the TViX M-5000 is happier with NFS (and it is faster than Samba). You don't state whether your "PC" is Windows or Linux. If you are talking Windows, then you are going to need to add the time, hassle, cost of getting NFS working...

-Jon

I'd like to resurrect this thread. It seems like the responses shifted away from the OP's question regarding NAS versus using his main PC as file storage (not NAS versus PC-based server).

I'm in the same boat, except I'm a relative networking noob as well. I'd like to get the TVIX (4000/5000), but I'm not ready to make the full leap with an NAS. Sure, there are some good deals on small NASs, but anything less than 500GB seems like a short term fix.

So, can I give the TVIX a fair shot with just my XP PC and internal/external storage? What would be the best way to connect the TVIX to the PC? It has an ethernet jack free, since I am connecting to a router wirelessly. Can I go straight from TVIX to PC via this open jack? Or do I need to get this PC wired with the TVIX through a 100MB switch?

Thanks!

I'd like to resurrect this thread. It seems like the responses shifted away from the OP's question regarding NAS versus using his main PC as file storage (not NAS versus PC-based server).

I'm in the same boat, except I'm a relative networking noob as well. I'd like to get the TVIX (4000/5000), but I'm not ready to make the full leap with an NAS. Sure, there are some good deals on small NASs, but anything less than 500GB seems like a short term fix.

So, can I give the TVIX a fair shot with just my XP PC and internal/external storage? What would be the best way to connect the TVIX to the PC? It has an ethernet jack free, since I am connecting to a router wirelessly. Can I go straight from TVIX to PC via this open jack? Or do I need to get this PC wired with the TVIX through a 100MB switch?

Thanks!

you can wire them together directly with what is called a cross over cable but I would just spend a few bucks and buy a switch... Most wireless routers today typically have a 4 port switch built in. you can buy a 4 port gig switch for cheap and 4 port 10/100 switch for even cheaper... The problem with the cross over cable is that your are screwed next time you want to add a device...

Sean

Sean,

Thanks. That's the direction I was leaning. Let's assume I go that route. Will I lose TVIX functionality or performance if I access files on my everyday PC rather than on an NAS?

Thanks again,

Brad

no assuming your PC is not overloaded....

The difference from PC to NAS...

is easy of setup
reliability
separate nature of the NAS etc...

Sean

I just came across this thread and your post! You just summarized my life in a nutshell. Having always enjoyed technology, I am at a point in my life (now 43) where I want to plug consumer electronics products in, complete interconnects, do some configuration (not customization) and begin using the product. I'm with you all the way and for that reason, I've had my eyes on a ReadyNAS (now NAS+) and just waiting for the right media distribution solution to come alone. I personally think the media distribution niche is still a bit too green. I'm hoping to see more mature products announced at CES 2007.


Because time is money.

And no matter how much I, and all you other mushroom farmers, like geeking out & building boxes and tweaking hardware.....There comes a point when some of us would rather spend our time pluging & chugging with an off the shelf NAS box, than auditioning hardware and software raid solutions in our rig(s) before entrusting home movies to it / them.

That's why.

YMMV

Dunno bout you dudes but between managing content and such between
2 ReplayTVs
2 Xboxes w/ XBMC
1 HTPC w/SageTV (For HiDef)
1 ReadyNAS
and tech support for the rest of the kin's PCs......

I sometimes question my sanity.

If you are going to stream any amounts of video - especially high definition content - I would absolutely recommend a wired network. I think these media sharing devices are overselling the virtues of wireless. Wireless is great for music and photos. If video distribution is something you are going to do often, I would wire it.


I'd like to resurrect this thread. It seems like the responses shifted away from the OP's question regarding NAS versus using his main PC as file storage (not NAS versus PC-based server).

I'm in the same boat, except I'm a relative networking noob as well. I'd like to get the TVIX (4000/5000), but I'm not ready to make the full leap with an NAS. Sure, there are some good deals on small NASs, but anything less than 500GB seems like a short term fix.

So, can I give the TVIX a fair shot with just my XP PC and internal/external storage? What would be the best way to connect the TVIX to the PC? It has an ethernet jack free, since I am connecting to a router wirelessly. Can I go straight from TVIX to PC via this open jack? Or do I need to get this PC wired with the TVIX through a 100MB switch?

Thanks!

If you are going to stream any amounts of video - especially high definition content - I would absolutely recommend a wired network. I think these media sharing devices are overselling the virtues of wireless. Wireless is great for music and photos. If video distribution is something you are going to do often, I would wire it.

I agree wholeheartedly.

and make sure that's gigabit wire (GbE). I can send 3 streams of 19mbps HD mpeg2 or wmvhd to 3 computers simultaneously or about 9 streams of 5mbps DVD video quality to 3 different locations simultaneously.

With wireless, you will be "lucky" to get just 1 stream of DVD.

Anyone wants to share their experience with NV+ on transfer rate? I learned that NV+ may be among the fastest NAS but it's transfer rate is generally ~ 20MB/sec on a Gigabit network. Could I have much more favorable transfer rate if I use a file server?

Anyone wants to share their experience with NV+ on transfer rate? I learned that NV+ may be among the fastest NAS but it's transfer rate is generally ~ 20MB/sec on a Gigabit network. Could I have much more favorable transfer rate if I use a file server?


A file server can be potentially much faster as you have control over the hardware that is used. However, you could make a file server vastly slower as well if you don't use hardware-based raid controllers, cheap-out on the amount of RAM and use a low-powered NIC card. Really, speed and choice is all about budget.

2 Infrant ReadyNAS NV's @ 2 TB Each
750 GB Asus WL-700gE Torre*t router.
Looking at adding a 3'rd ReadyNAS but want the 1 TB hard drives supported.

A file server can be potentially much faster as you have control over the hardware that is used. However, you could make a file server vastly slower as well if you don't use hardware-based raid controllers, cheap-out on the amount of RAM and use a low-powered NIC card. Really, speed and choice is all about budget.

You really have to try hard these days to build something slow. My 14-drive server with no RAID, $8 network card, and $79 motherboard + CPU bundle from Fry's manages to sustain 360Mbps (45Mbytes/sec) for reads and writes over the network.

2 Infrant ReadyNAS NV's @ 2 TB Each
750 GB Asus WL-700gE Torre*t router.
Looking at adding a 3'rd ReadyNAS but want the 1 TB hard drives supported.
You're the man qz3fwd... ;)

1TB HD support would be nice on the NV's. If so, I could finally ditch my aging Firewire based external storage (2x2HD, 2x1HD), and get everything onto a 2nd ReadyNas.

Really happy with my NAS, and every time people ask for help/ideas I make sure to tell them about all the good things that comes with a NAS.

I have been buying external Lacie firewire Hard Dives of late to archive stuff to make room for new stuff. I have another 500 GB or so coming soon to a theater near me. Urgh.
Keeping up with my recording, editing, watching,archiving schedule is very time consuming.

You can never have enough storage space!

You really have to try hard these days to build something slow. My 14-drive server with no RAID, $8 network card, and $79 motherboard + CPU bundle from Fry's manages to sustain 360Mbps (45Mbytes/sec) for reads and writes over the network.

Just so others can compare, I've got a software RAID 5 fileserver made of:

AMD 64 3200
PCI MB w/1gb RAM
Promise TX4 PCI card
1GB network (on MB), Netgear gigabit switch
4 WD3200KS SATAII drives
Linux + Linux Software RAID 5 + samba


Getting about 30-35MBytes/sec read and write (sequential)
SW raid5 process uses only 3-5% cpu on both read/write
smbd (samba) process uses about 20% cpu on 4GB read/write tests
About 60% cpu idle, 10% iowait on both read/writes.
In addition to fileserver, also uses box as: MythTV backend, torrent client, Home firewall (shorewall).
Streams all my content (including HD) to my mythtv frontend and/or ROKU 1000 with no problems.
Cost me about $450 (disks + TX4 card). Had other components