For quite a while now, I had been searching for a VP solution for the HT I'm helping to build for my parents. I've since had to conclude that there are just too many issues with all current VPs to justify the expense of any of them.

The FleaHDMI and the MosquitoHDMI seem to be exceptions, more or less. A fair bit of useful information is known about the Mosquito. For example, it generates a great deal of heat; its image processing takes only a fraction of a single frame to complete; it exhibits much of the flakiness shared by all VPs (such as being unable to handshake with TivoHD). By comparison, details like these are evidently not yet widespread knowledge when it comes to the Digital Flea (or indeed its non-digital predecessor). But I know some people own this piece of hardware, so hopefully they will be willing to share with us. :)

As always, I'll submit a series of questions.

1: The Flea boasts the same three types of processing as the Mosquito. However, it has already been pointed out that the Flea performs these operations to a lesser degree. What does this mean, exactly? A comparison of the features of the two units reveals very few differences, apart from the input options.

2: How long does the Flea take to process video? The Mosquito takes something like a third of a frame, if I recall what I read correctly. This is very acceptable. It is difficult to guess whether the Flea's supposedly lesser processing power means "less" or "slower" artifact removal.

3: I tend to doubt that the Flea produces huge quantities of heat, but it can't hurt to ask.

4: Has anyone experienced any deal-breaking issues with the Flea? For example, if I got one home and discovered that it simply could not accept input from one of my sources (a valid concern, as the Mosquito reportedly still has such issues, months after they were first observed), well, it wouldn't be all that useful to me.

5: I note that neither unit is listed as being able to accept or process video whose framerate is not effectively 60. This worries me, as I do not immediately see how the hardware could be useful for film-sourced video. If the video is sent as 480p60, any hope of achieving 24/48/72Hz has probably been lost. If the video is sent as 480i/1080i, will the Flea/Mosquito recognize the intended cadence and process accordingly? Does it even matter? It would be nice to have assurances that the use of a Mosquito/Flea will not jeopardize the goal of judder-free movies.

6: On a related note, is it possible that the firmware could be upgraded to support non-60Hz video? To me, this would seem like a logical next step.

7: Are the processing level settings available on a per-HDMI input basis?

8: By chance, would the processing level settings be adjustable based on the input resolution? (For example, a HD-DVD player can play DVDs as well as HD-DVDs. There are considerable differences in artifacting between the two media types. It would be very handy indeed if the Flea could be set up to utilize higher processing levels for the 480i/p video and minimal levels for the far less demanding 1080i video.)

The FleaHDMI may be an appealing piece of hardware, specifically in conjunction with OTA / satellite sources, as it appears to be a reasonably hands-free device that I could install and essentially never worry about - a highly attractive proposition, given that the users of this hardware will almost certainly be unable to handle any unexpected situations. And the (presumed) price seems fair, given that I am aware that alternative VP solutions are likely to be available within a year which could render the Flea superfluous and even needlessly pricey. But I do like to find out as much as I can about hardware before purchasing it, especially in a field of products whose low penetration generally means high maintenance.

Thanks in advance!

You are comparing noise reducers (Mosquito/Flea) to scalers. Two completely different devices. There is also alot of generalizations, and some misinformation here. I have run my Mosquito at framerates other than 60Hz, in 480i, 720, and 1080i.



For example, it generates a great deal of heat


My Mosquito barely gets warm. :confused:

You are comparing noise reducers (Mosquito/Flea) to scalers.
This is no comparison. It's an inquiry. At most, it's a dismissal of VPs that serve deinterlacing and scaling purposes, in favor of a specific focus on the comparatively passive process of artifact removal. Sorry if my introductory comments made it seem like I was fixing to discuss anything but the FleaHDMI.

There is also alot of generalizations, and some misinformation here.
By all means, be as specific as you can, so that my misinformation can be dutifully corrected. A generalization is, of course, not entirely helpful.

I have run my Mosquito at framerates other than 60Hz, in 480i, 720, and 1080i.
This is excellent, although it does open a bit of a can of worms since it contradicts the specs provided on Algolith's webpage.

My Mosquito barely gets warm.
This submission would probably be helpful to the poor individual who started a thread seeking cooling solutions for his Mosquito.

More information is always good. This is precisely the point of my thread. Although in this case I must admit that I almost feel like I had to coerce these tidbits of information out using indirect methods.

I would be sure you are using the best available source before investing in a product like the Flea.

For example, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to spend $1000-$2000 on a Flea or Mosquito with DirecTV, if a better HD picture (with higher resolution and substantially less noise) was available from your area cable provider.

Sorry to jump in here but does anyone know if the Digital Flea will accept 720p and 1080p inputs at 48, 50 and 60hz ?.

Cheers,

Tony.

I would think that you have asked the manufacturer, Algolith, these questions?
If so, it would be beneficial to all concerned to read the comments they have submitted on behalf of the Flea HDMI.

Sorry to jump in here but does anyone know if the Digital Flea will accept 720p and 1080p inputs at 48, 50 and 60hz ?.

Cheers,

Tony.

Guess what kind of info can be found on thier website?

http://www.algolith.com/index.php?id=177&L=0

Thanks for the comments guys.

I have heard that 48hz works (Although I am not sure at what resolutions) and that 1080p also works. Neither of these are listed on their website. Although I assume that the rumors I have heard are incorrect, afterall why would Algolith not advertise the fact, but I would welcome any feedback from someone with a Digital Flea who has tried it out.

Having said that it does say that 'output follows input' although this could mean almost anything. For instance does this mean that it process all other HDMI standard supported formats (Why not just say this instead of listing formats) or that it just passes them through without NR processing ?.

Cheers,

Tony.

I'm thinking about the FLEA for my DISH Sattelite HD - Will it work to remove the noise??? Some channels are really bad - I know that DirectTV transmits in HD Lite, but what about Dish? Thanks for any comments/thoughts

This submission would probably be helpful to the poor individual who started a thread seeking cooling solutions for his Mosquito.

Can't give him any solutions, as my Mosquito barely runs warm. My VP30 is a toaster-oven in comparison.

I'm thinking about the FLEA for my DISH Sattelite HD - Will it work to remove the noise??? Some channels are really bad - I know that DirectTV transmits in HD Lite, but what about DishUnfortunately, Dish does HD Lite on most (but not all) of its channels as well.

If you have no cable in your area, there's not much else you can do. If you do have cable in your area, I would consider that. Chances are good that the pristine cable HD feed available on FiOS and many Comcast systems would look better than the Flea with the Dish or DirecTV HD feed.

Axatax,

Have you tried outputting 48hz locked from your VP30 ?. If so does the flea perform NR or just pass through ?.

Cheers,

Tony.

Axatax,

Have you tried outputting 48hz locked from your VP30 ?. If so does the flea perform NR or just pass through ?.

I have the Mosquito _before_ the VP30, so no, I have not attempted this.

AXATAX,

that's exactly how you *should* be connecting it, I don't see the point of using the unit on anything but standard resolutions (which it supports, AFAIK).

the only thing that wold really be interesting in testing is the unit's support for European standards (720P, 576p, 1080i50, 576i). It is utter nonsense to place the unit after a VP.


1080sf24 also makes sense once something outputs it natively (BD?)

What would the detriment be to connect it after the scaler? I have a VP50 and have 7 HDMI and 1 DVI devices. Four(3 HDTiVo and the On Demand cable box) are going through an HDMI switch before ogoing to the VP50. The Flea only has two HDMI inputs so the only way I could apply processing to all my devices would be to put it after the scaler.

What would the detriment be to connect it after the scaler? I have a VP50 and have 7 HDMI and 1 DVI devices. Four(3 HDTiVo and the On Demand cable box) are going through an HDMI switch before ogoing to the VP50. The Flea only has two HDMI inputs so the only way I could apply processing to all my devices would be to put it after the scaler.

From my understanding, functions such as BAR expect a certain MPEG block size. When the image is scaled, the block sizes are no longer predictable.

The limited input flexibility *is* a big problem with Algolith's form factors. You can forego HDMI on two of your devices and use component, use a switcher, or live without the Mosquito for all of your devices.

I only use the Mosquito with my (single) tuner and DVD player. IMHO, they were more concerned with making a pretty package than offering flexibility. I love this device, but Algolith doesn't seem to be very well tuned in to what most advanced users want. No RS-232, no SDI, limited inputs, and nearly impossible to control consistently with outboard IR equipment.

AXATAX,

the only thing that wold really be interesting in testing is the unit's support for European standards (720P, 576p, 1080i50, 576i). It is utter nonsense to place the unit after a VP.


All of the resolutions here work with no issues at both 50Hz refresh rate. Comparable 60Hz formats (480i etc) also work correctly.

I have not tested 1080p24 yet however the hardware certainly can support this meaning if support is not already there it can be added via firmware update as soon as there enough decent sources of that rate.

Neil

I am considering purchasing the HDMi Flea. Where did most people purchase theirs from?

Another quick question. The FLEA HDMI does pass the audio along with the video over HDMi doesn't it? I'm thinking about getting one to use with my broadcast sources. I curently have all of them going to a Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch before going to a VP50. If I get the FLEA I would put that after the HDMi switch and then the FLEA would output to my VP 50 where it would extract the audio over HDMi to send to my receiver. If the FLEA doesn't pass along the audio it's of no use to me.

The Flea doesn't handle audio. Its only purpose in life is to reduce "mosquito" noise (i.e. digital compression arifacts).

The Flea doesn't handle audio. Its only purpose in life is to reduce "mosquito" noise (i.e. digital compression arifacts).

It doesn't process the audio, but it should pass the audio (and possibly delay it accordingly?) along.

Anyone have a Flea for sale--the original using S-Video and Component?

It doesn't process the audio, but it should pass the audio (and possibly delay it accordingly?) along.

Like I already said, you cannot connect audio to the Flea. It's not a scalar, only a noise reduction device. Algolith does have other products, like the Mosquiteo and Dragonfly. Go to algolith.com for product info.

Like I already said, you cannot connect audio to the Flea.

I haven't tried on my Flea HDMI, but I see no reason why algolith would go out of their way to disable audio pass-through on the HDMI ports. There are two standard switched HDMI ports on the flea. They *should* allow audio to be carried, as per the HDMI spec.

If, for some strange reason, the Flea ignores the HDMI spec and has the audio pins disconnected, you can always split the audio out from the HDMI output of your switch and connect the audio directly to the VP50 or use two of the HDMI audio/video splitters and re-join the audio prior to connecting to teh VP50. I believe gefen makes HDMI audio/video splitters.

I want to know how much PQ improvement using hdmi flea.
Blu-ray or hd-dvd player has a very good PQ in normally,
If you compare difference, note that.

I only plan on using my FLEA with broadcast sources. I will keep my BD and HD DVD player going straight to the VP50. Hopefully I'll get the FLEA by next weekend. I kept missing Jason when I called yesterday to give hime the order info.

I was hoping to clear up a few problems here on this thread.
The Flea HDMI passes Video and Audio as it's meant to be with all HDMI connections.
The Flea HDMI processes the video and passes the audio with no delay.
THe Flea is made to address many different forms of Noise Reduction. This is not a scaler. Algolith has a scaler called The Dragonfly.
The Flea will also address the following resolutions;480i,480p,720p,1080i, and 1080p24. 1080p24 will be available this week through a firmware upgrade.
We also support European standards.
The Flea will address noise from any mpeg source ex: SD and HD.
It does a excellent job cleaning high definition sources from cable,sat,hddvd,etc.
For more information, please visit our website.

Regards,
Anthony M
Tech support
Algolith Inc.

Like I already said, you cannot connect audio to the Flea. It's not a scalar, only a noise reduction device. Algolith does have other products, like the Mosquiteo and Dragonfly. Go to algolith(dot)com for product info.

Jim, The Flea HDMI carries both Video and Audio. We process the video and pass audio with no delays.

Regards
Anthony M
Tech Support
Algolith Inc.

I am considering purchasing the HDMi Flea. Where did most people purchase theirs from?

You can buy your Flea right from AVS.

Regards,

Anthony M
Tech Support
Algolith Inc.

I was hoping to clear up a few problems here on this thread.
The Flea HDMI passes Video and Audio as it's meant to be with all HDMI connections.
The Flea HDMI processes the video and passes the audio with no delay.
THe Flea is made to address many different forms of Noise Reduction. This is not a scaler. Algolith has a scaler called The Dragonfly.
The Flea will also address the following resolutions;480i,480p,720p,1080i, and 1080p24. 1080p24 will be available this week through a firmware upgrade.
We also support European standards.
The Flea will address noise from any mpeg source ex: SD and HD.
It does a excellent job cleaning high definition sources from cable,sat,hddvd,etc.
For more information, please visit our website.

Regards,
Anthony M
Tech support
Algolith Inc.


Hello Anthony,

have you solved the below black problem on your SDI to HDMI converter ?

I'm considering buying either the Mosquito or Flea if the converter works

perfectly

Michael

You can buy your Flea right from AVS.

Regards,

Anthony M
Tech Support
Algolith Inc.
I did that yesterday. What equipment is needed for the firmware upgrade? Just a PC and a serial or usb cable?

Jim, The Flea HDMI carries both Video and Audio. We process the video and pass audio with no delays.

Regards
Anthony M
Tech Support
Algolith Inc.

Thanks for the correction. I wasn't thinking about HDMI, which would pass audio. I was looking at the analogue Flea, which doesn't do audio.

My apologies for confusing anyone. :o

I'm considering buying either the Mosquito or Flea if the converter works

You have another option: http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/kdsdi1080p.asp

This will do the same thing (and more), without crushing blacks. It will output 480i over DVI with latest firmware.

I have used KD SDI to DVI converter in the past & returned it as it softened the picture a bit & colors were a bit desaturated, especially reds. I do wish that hopefully Algolith will fix the black crush problem on their SDI-HDMI converter.

You have another option: http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/kdsdi1080p.asp

This will do the same thing (and more), without crushing blacks. It will output 480i over DVI with latest firmware.


looks good, but only need a SDI to HDMI 480i/576i converter ( no fancy

scaling)


Thanks

Michael


I'm really disapointed in Algolith not responding to my question on their website,

no customer service I guess

I have used KD SDI to DVI converter in the past & returned it as it softened the picture a bit & colors were a bit desaturated, especially reds. I do wish that hopefully Algolith will fix the black crush problem on their SDI-HDMI converter.

I would be happy in a Flea or Mosquito or Elizio accepting SDI/HD-SDI


Michael

Hello Anthony,

have you solved the below black problem on your SDI to HDMI converter ?

I'm considering buying either the Mosquito or Flea if the converter works

perfectly

Michael

Hello Nidi,

The Blacker than black issue originates in the silicon image encoder device used on the SDI option. There is, unfortunately, no fix available from them. We, at Algolith, will ensure that some of our future products will use devices that support Blacker than black.



Thank you

Anthony M
Tech Support
Algolith Inc.

I did that yesterday. What equipment is needed for the firmware upgrade? Just a PC and a serial or usb cable?

A PC and a USD cable

Regards,

Anthony M
Tech Support
Algolith Inc.

looks good, but only need a SDI to HDMI 480i/576i converter ( no fancy

scaling)


Thanks

Michael


I'm really disapointed in Algolith not responding to my question on their website,

no customer service I guess

Dear Nidi,

Your question has been answered.
Customer service is very important to us, this is why I'm helping AVS members on this and other threads.

Kind Regards,

Anthony M
Tech Support
Algolith Inc.

Dear Nidi,

Your question has been answered.
Customer service is very important to us, this is why I'm helping AVS members on this and other threads.

Kind Regards,

Anthony M
Tech Support
Algolith Inc.


never got a response e-mail, could you resend it , please ?

Thanks

Michael

never got a response e-mail, could you resend it , please ?

Thanks

Michael

Ok, Algolith sent me an e-mail explaining that the current chipset used in it's SDI-HDMI converter has the BTB problem.

Michael

You can buy your Flea right from AVS.

Regards,

Anthony M
Tech Support
Algolith Inc.

And how is that done exactly? Im intrested in buying one! :)

IMO Algolith should have done some testing before shipping the SDI-HDMI converter rather than blaming HDMI chipset after the fact.

And how is that done exactly? Im intrested in buying one! :)

Look up Jason Turk at AVS and send him a PM.

IMO Algolith should have done some testing before shipping the SDI-HDMI converter rather than blaming HDMI chipset after the fact.

how much do they charge for it, anyway ?

Michael

vinodk,

true enough, but that box was created as an interim solution to SDI player owners wanting to use Algolith's products. There are other solutions out there, but SDI is getting quite rare again for the home market.

We should really applaud the fact that they have actually invested the effort to create such a product, IMO.

I want to know how much PQ improvement using hdmi flea.
Blu-ray or hd-dvd player has a very good PQ in normally,
If you compare difference, note that.

I saw one of these today and the difference on HD-DVD is VERY BIG! much more so then you would ever think, since HD-DVD is so good source to begin with
but I saw better black, brighter and more punch to the image, much better contrast, MUCH sharper without any ghosting, incredible depth, and much more sense of presence.
the total experience was fantastic!
and I was looking at a HC5000 perfectly calibrated on a studiotek 130, and thought it looked amazing even before the flea did its wonders.

looked at SD-DVD also, and it cleaned up the picture very nicely, but the biggest difference was the improved depth!
but HD-DVD was bigger difference between before and after.

so if you have HD-DVD or BD... BUY THIS, you havent seen HD until you have seen what this thing can do! its amazing!
had a pearl in the same room, and that looked more like SD-DVD compared to the HC5000 with the flea! it was just so much more details in the picture!
dont just use it on your cable, the better the source, the better this flea makes it!

Regards
Beagle

Does the FLEA pass the audio? I just received mine and I get a picture over HDMI but I'm not getting any audio. This is of no use to me if I can't pass the audio.

Also why does it keep saying the colorspace is RGB. Prioe to putting the FLEA in the HDMI chain my TiVos were not outputting RGB but the status shows RGB. If this doesn't pass the audio I don't know what I'll do. I have no desire to run optical cables to my components, that is what HDMI is for so you have one cable to carry audio and video. Why would you only want it to carry video? This has not been a good evening.

Does the FLEA pass the audio? I just received mine and I get a picture over HDMI but I'm not getting any audio. This is of no use to me if I can't pass the audio.

Also why does it keep saying the colorspace is RGB. Prioe to putting the FLEA in the HDMI chain my TiVos were not outputting RGB but the status shows RGB. If this doesn't pass the audio I don't know what I'll do. I have no desire to run optical cables to my components, that is what HDMI is for so you have one cable to carry audio and video. Why would you only want it to carry video? This has not been a good evening.

it is compatible with audio, it should just pass through, so something must be wrong

Something is wrong with this unit. When I try the second input with the same source it won't stay locked on the picture. This is frustrating.
I did get the audio to work. It wasn't working with the monoprice switch for some reason. Everything else works with it. The Flea doesn't have enough inputs. I guess I need to findout what the return process is.

I noticed another problem. The FLEA isn't passing the HDCP flag either. Is the FLEA supposed to be HDCP compliant? The one I have isn't. It won't pass the HDCP flag with an S3 TiVo, an HR10-250 TiVo and the Comcast cable box. So without the flag I can't view any On Demand or Premium channels.
I connected each box straight to the Tv and it is fine. Then when I add the FLEA between the TV and the source it loses the HDCP flag. It's not the cables, TV or my sources. I definitely need to return this for an exchange or refund. I hope it didn't damgae any of my devices. this is really frustrating.

Excellent customer service from AVS and Agolith. I've talked with a rep from Algolith a couple of times in the past few days and he worked with me to get things straightened out with the HDMi FLEA. I ended up flashing the FLEA HDMi with the earlier firmware and it is now stable with my setup. When They have a new firmware version available I will try that. The FLEA also wouldn't work with the first three ports of the Monopirce HDMI 5 port switch. I beleive those ports are cascading ports while ports 4 and 5 are not. The FLEA works fine in my setup with ports 4 and 5. Now I just need to get a remote for the HDMI FLEA. It does an excellent job on broadcast HD and SD. I am very pleased with it so far. It was so frustrating the first night I had with the unit.
I want to thank AVS and Algolith again for their excellent customer service.

Excellent customer service from AVS and Agolith. I've talked with a rep from Algolith a couple of times in the past few days and he worked with me to get things straightened out with the HDMi FLEA. I ended up flashing the FLEA HDMi with the earlier firmware and it is now stable with my setup. When They have a new firmware version available I will try that. The FLEA also wouldn't work with the first three ports of the Monopirce HDMI 5 port switch. I beleive those ports are cascading ports while ports 4 and 5 are not. The FLEA works fine in my setup with ports 4 and 5. Now I just need to get a remote for the HDMI FLEA. It does an excellent job on broadcast HD and SD. I am very pleased with it so far. It was so frustrating the first night I had with the unit.
I want to thank AVS and Algolith again for their excellent customer service.

there doesnt seem to be very many flea HDMI owners so could you please take screenshots to show others how great this thing really is?
would be great, espescially if you could take them when having the splitvision up so you could see on the pics before and after.
and would you say that you experience with your flea is similar to what i wrote above?

there doesnt seem to be very many flea HDMI owners so could you please take screenshots to show others how great this thing really is?
would be great, espescially if you could take them when having the splitvision up so you could see on the pics before and after.
and would you say that you experience with your flea is similar to what i wrote above?

I'm not sure you're really going to see anything going from a large screen, to a compressed 5" digital web photo, but good luck.

Here is a link to some pictures taken from Headline News on DirecTV.

http://hdpics.aaronwt.com/FLEAHDMI/

The best one is probably Flea5. It shows some text in a commercial and you can see the mosquito noise reduction in the processed image on the right. I'll try and take some HD pictures later this week. The only reason I have these was because someone sent me a PM asking for some pictures of SD material off DirecTV, But the still pictures really don't show the pronounced difference that you see while watching live. It really does a good job on HD which is what I watch 95% of the time. Although I'm only using it with broadcast sources. I don't have the HD DVD player connected to it.

Flea5 shows dramatic improvement. Why are the colors so different though?

Here is a link to some pictures taken from Headline News on DirecTV.

http://hdpics.aaronwt.com/FLEAHDMI/

The best one is probably Flea5. It shows some text in a commercial and you can see the mosquito noise reduction in the processed image on the right. I'll try and take some HD pictures later this week. The only reason I have these was because someone sent me a PM asking for some pictures of SD material off DirecTV, But the still pictures really don't show the pronounced difference that you see while watching live. It really does a good job on HD which is what I watch 95% of the time. Although I'm only using it with broadcast sources. I don't have the HD DVD player connected to it.

thanks!
but you really should see what this baby can do for HD-DVDs! its fantastic!

Flea5 shows dramatic improvement. Why are the colors so different though?
I think that's just from the camera and the fact that it is a DLp with a color wheel. The colors do look the same Live.

http://www.minhembio.com/bild/130687.jpg

here is a little crappy picture taken by me today of how it improves a HD-DVD, pretty much sharper, and gives more depth and clarity.

so if you have HD-DVD or BD... BUY THIS, you havent seen HD until you have seen what this thing can do! its amazing!I was on the verge of recommending this device for my parents' system. However... I can't find anything concrete on the Flea's ability to deal with 24 Hz video.

You see, when it comes to high-definition and 24 Hz, it turns out the best solution is to let the BD (and/or HD, once Toshiba's gets updated) player take care of outputting the video at 24 Hz since this is how the movies are stored on the discs. Obviously, this means that there is no stage at which the video is some iteration of 60 Hz, and as far as I can tell, 60 Hz (or PAL) is all the Flea HDMI can handle.

Would love to see some up to date info on this. Obviously, there should be absolutely nothing keeping the Flea HDMI from handling 1080p24 if it can handle 1080i60 which is a higher bandwidth rate.

Here is a link to some pictures taken from Headline News on DirecTV.

http://hdpics.aaronwt.com/FLEAHDMI/I've been noticing that the device crushes blacks and reduces the overall brightness drastically. Is there a fix in the pipeline for this phenomenon?

I've been noticing that the device crushes blacks and reduces the overall brightness drastically. Is there a fix in the pipeline for this phenomenon?

I was under the impression that the Flea has no effect on brightness or contrast. These pictures seem to indicate otherwise.

If you use a Flea and have a properly calibrated display, you may have to calibrate it again.

I've been noticing that the device crushes blacks and reduces the overall brightness drastically. Is there a fix in the pipeline for this phenomenon?are you basing this on first hand experience, or solely on the posted photos?

The darknes in the picture is from the camera. Although the FLEA did crush the blacks when I had an RGB input, but that might also be the source since the FLEA has problems with the Comcast HD bos with DVI. Non RGB colorspace inputs seem to have the similar brightness and contrast as the input. Not sure if the firmware makes a difference either. i am in need of a calibration after adding the VP50 and the FLEA to my setup. But I need to wait until I decide if I'm going to get one of the new Samsung LED DLP sets. Also I need to wait for an updated firmware for the VP50. Plus my bulb has probably darkened since my last calibration.

are you basing this on first hand experience, or solely on the posted photos?On the photos. Considering there are two separate people who have posted A/B images in this thread, and the phenomenon rears its head in both cases, I don't feel this is an unreasonable conclusion. If it's the camera, then cameras must be inexplicably succeptible to brightness degradation when taking photos of Flea-modified video.

Firsthand experience will come after I have determined that this problem is something that would not happen to me.

On the photos. Considering there are two separate people who have posted A/B images in this thread, and the phenomenon rears its head in both cases, I don't feel this is an unreasonable conclusion. If it's the camera, then cameras must be inexplicably succeptible to brightness degradation when taking photos of Flea-modified video.

Firsthand experience will come after I have determined that this problem is something that would not happen to me.

If I understand it correctly, the pictures show the Flea displaying a split screen with and without Flea processing. If that's true, I don't see how a camera can be at fault. It seems the Flea does more than just reduce mosquito noise.

On my pictures I'm using a DLP. You need to be centered for the pictures to come out right with a tripod preferably. On those pictures it wasn't centered on the screen or on a tripod since I was just taking some quick pics. I guess I need to find my tripod and take the pictures the proper way to see how those turn out. I also had my settings at the default at the time. I've been playing around with them and the default settings seem to be a little agressive for me. I've been messing around with changing them, but it's kind of a pain until Aloglith comes out with their remote control for the Flea in a few weeks. Plus with all the changes I've made to my system and the wear on my bulb since my last calibration, my picture right now is not the best it's been. I want to test out the black Level with the FLEA when Digital Video Essentials is released at the end of the month for HD DVD. Unless I can get the test patterns again from HDNet. I lost them when I reimaged all my drives with my HR10-250 boxes.
Either way from my experience it crushed the blacks when it was fed an RGB input. I don't know if that is normal or not. I need to email Algolith support to find out

Let us know what you discover. ;p I've been reading that it can be difficult to establish contact with Algolith. I'd be particularly interested in seeing whether or not the HDMI-specific Flea exhibits this same darkening and crushing of blacks. It would be difficult to recommend the Flea in such a state to my parents. $1000 to trade one artifact for another.

I had no problems at all contacting them.
I recorded the HDnet test pattern Sunday and going by that it is passing BTB. When I disconnect the FLEA and bypass that and the VP50 my picture has the same shadow detail. It doesn't look like as much shadow detail as it used to after my last calibration but it's been a while since my last calibration. I won't get another one until Summer and that wil be either with my current set or a new one If I decide to do that.

I still need to get an email out to the person I contacted at Algolith to ask him about these things with the FLEA. But overall, I am satisfied with it. It does clean up the OT HD signals alot and that is what I bought the FLEA for. I just wish it woked better with the HDMI switches since it won't work with teh cascaded ports of the 5 x 1 Monoprice switcher and wouldn't work with any of the ports on the ConeectGear 4 port switch. The VP50 and denon 3806 have no problems with any of those switchers. So I just ended up purchasing a 3x1 Monoprice switch taht should work since those go straight to the output. on the 5x1 monoprice switch there are two HDMI chips. Each chip has 3 inputs. the first chip is on ports 1,2, and 3. The second chip has ports 4 and 5 and teh output of the first chip. Those fist 3 ports output to that second chip before going to the Switch output. For some reason the FLEA won't sync. So the 3 port Switch only has one chip so it should work with that. Hopefully I'll get it tomorrow.

Contact Hanna van Beekum with Algolith at hvanbeekum@algolith.com and I bet she can either answer your questions, or find somebody that can.

The Flea, like every other video component, may introduce some slight changes to the back or white levels of the overall chain.

These can be very simply corrected by adjusting the appropriate control on the display. Black crushing is an artefact due to incorrect calibration of the full component chain. The content is not clipped and so simple adjustment of the display is required if a dimming is noticed.

This is no different to the process you should go through if you add a new DVD player or any other component in to the video chain.

Anthony - who has posted several times on this thread - is the person at Algolith you need to speak to if you have any issues. There should be no difficulty doing so as his email is right there in his postings.

Neil

The Flea, like every other video component, may introduce some slight changes to the back or white levels of the overall chain.Sounds like a that-was-then, this-is-now scenario. When one considers that the difference in perceptible quality between component/RGB and DVI/HDMI video is practically inconsequential (for now), it could truly be argued that one of the main points behind digital video is the ability to circumvent inexplicable, sweeping alterations to the image, such as brightening, darkening, or crushing.

I am not too surprised at seeing such a deal-breaking artifact being introduced by the analog version of the Flea. Standalone VPs in general have always seemed, to me, to be too firmly situated in the realm of the kludgy. But it would be nothing less than disappointing to determine that the problem persists with the purely digital version of the Flea.

I hesitate to make direct inquiries to Algolith representatives, as the visual examples given on their own webpage are conspicuously idealized and yet represented as real-life results.

Hi Colmino,

I struggle to see why this would be a deal breaking artefact? In my testing today I had to raise the brightness control on the display (new 1080 Panasonic PJ) by one click to return the system to calibrated levels. No detail was lost, the system simply needed checked with a setup DVD and was back at 100% accurate settings within 3 mins of connecting.

In the ideal world I would agree that a signal being processed in the digital domain would not be changed but I believe such a small change is no price to pay for the benefit of the noise reduction.

Have you tested a Flea yet? I assume not as you would have noted that the images are not idealised but are a true representation of the real results. Every Flea includes an evaluation DVD to let you see these changes on screen.


I hesitate to make direct inquiries to Algolith representatives, as the visual examples given on their own webpage are conspicuously idealized and yet represented as real-life results.

I simply can't understand the attitude dislayed here. Somehow you have come to the conclusion that the images are a falsification and have then projected this on to the staff at Algolith. Have you ever dealt with these people to be able to form such inaccurate conclusions. This very thread includes several comments on the high quality of customer service offered from the company.

I would encourqage you to please find the confidence to contact Algolith or a dealer to arrange a demo. From this you will be able to determine if the Flea is the device for you or not. At that time I and many others will look forward to hearing how the device performed in your experience rather than how you think the device MAY perform.

Neil

I might be wrong here, but IIRC, Algolith added a feature that could enhance contrast in an update recently... something called DRS? Dynamic Range Stretcher?
I am pretty sure it's a feature that can be turned off.
Maybe that explains the change in perceived brightness?

This thread is nothing more than virgins writing about sex . Pure conjecture.

These devices are the real deal, the products work as advertised, and nobody can currently touch the level of performance these products bring to the table. Since you want to make accusations of misrepresentation, I look forward to your proof you will surely present. The owners of these products have stated the DLP-derived screenshots are not indicative of actual performance. They are speaking from first-hand experience and observation. The detractors here are talking out their asses.

Since there seems to be much comment on my assertation of less than strictly real world results, combined I see with no small measure of imperiousness and invective, I'll point to the document which prompted my comments. You may judge to your own hopefully non-biased liking, as I did.

Go to their homepage and open the "What Is Video Noise?" PDF. Witness the three examples of noise reduction presented in said document. Zoom in closely for best results.

1: Mosquito noise. Take a look at the gray background, behind the cobalt-blue pattern. Specifically, look at the polygonal features. In the bottom half of the image, said features include a border which rises vertically on the right-hand side, then cuts sharply to the left and proceeds to the left edge of the image. It is this horizontal border that drew my attention. It has a few steps: A faint grey line at the top, a more prominent graying further down, a dark brown line beneath that, and finally, another faint grey line well below the rest. Now, this final grey line is the target. Specifically, the glimpse we see of it nearest to the sharp corner on the right, before it passes behind the cobalt-blue pattern. In the heavily artifacted "original image", there is, to my eyes, no information which could indicate that there should have been a faint grey line. The mosquito noise bordering the cobalt-blue pattern has simply erased its existence. And the same could be said about where the grey line proceeds between the vines of the cobalt-blue pattern (although a non-relevant white arrow obscures one area). Only the leftmost spot would seem to bear any indication of this grey line in the artifacted example.

2: Blocking artifacts. Take a look at the bottom, where the building-prominent skyline meets the sky. The blocking artifacting in the "original image" is so heavy that there is essentially no detail. In the "after" image, somehow the blocking has been vanquished to the point that a good measure of mosquito noise, completely missing from the original image, is now resident.

3: Dynamic noise. The restorative results presented here are over the top, at least to someone with a fair measure of Photoshop / Premiere Pro authoring under his belt.

Examples 1 and 2 appear, to me, more the sort of result one gets very specifically with differences in level of compression. The appearance of minute details (including new compression artifacts) in the "after" images, which were completely missing in the "original" images, cannot, to my mind, be otherwise explained. Example 3 seems very much like what one gets when applying a noise filter to an image within an authoring tool, and turning the noise back off. The actual level of noise in the "original image" is so dramatic that it is frankly absurd to suggest that it could be reduced in realtime to the degree showcased in the "after" image while maintaining such crisp detail.

And that is ultimately my point. To me, all three of these examples are meant merely to serve the purpose of illustrating the three kinds of noise being addressed, along with idealized (for the purposes of illustration) examples of reductions of said noise. My hangup is that without anything to indicate otherwise, the results must be assumed to be intended as real. The apparent fact that similar results (minus the magical conjuring of nonextant details) can be had from these devices - in the cases of mosquito noise and macroblocks - is not relevant to these observations.

Did I feel that these observations deserved anything more than a brief mention in support of other reservations? No, not until my hand was forced. Incidentally, I won't be revisiting this thread. I set out to determine one or two things, such as whether or not the Flea HDMI could handle 24 Hz in any capacity (no, apparently) and whether or not the blackening issue could be avoided (no, apparently), and in spite of it all I do still intend to make a few purchases, albiet solely with broadcast sources in mind.

The Flea HDMI handles 1080P24 with the latest firmware. v2.04. This was released at the end of January.

Here is a link to the release notes.

http://www.algolith.com/fileadmin/HomeTheater/fleahdmi/3014-8002RN-204.pdf

I set out to determine one or two things, such as whether or not the Flea HDMI could handle 24 Hz in any capacity (no, apparently) and whether or not the blackening issue could be avoided (no, apparently) Ummm ...apparently these assumptions are incorrect.

You're very welcome. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you any further questions.

Excellent customer service from AVS and Agolith. I've talked with a rep from Algolith a couple of times in the past few days and he worked with me to get things straightened out with the HDMi FLEA. I ended up flashing the FLEA HDMi with the earlier firmware and it is now stable with my setup. When They have a new firmware version available I will try that. The FLEA also wouldn't work with the first three ports of the Monopirce HDMI 5 port switch. I beleive those ports are cascading ports while ports 4 and 5 are not. The FLEA works fine in my setup with ports 4 and 5. Now I just need to get a remote for the HDMI FLEA. It does an excellent job on broadcast HD and SD. I am very pleased with it so far. It was so frustrating the first night I had with the unit.
I want to thank AVS and Algolith again for their excellent customer service.

Colmino,

You're questions have been answered in the PM you sent me. Please copy it on to this thread.

Regards,

AnthonyM
Algolith Inc.

I was on the verge of recommending this device for my parents' system. However... I can't find anything concrete on the Flea's ability to deal with 24 Hz video.

You see, when it comes to high-definition and 24 Hz, it turns out the best solution is to let the BD (and/or HD, once Toshiba's gets updated) player take care of outputting the video at 24 Hz since this is how the movies are stored on the discs. Obviously, this means that there is no stage at which the video is some iteration of 60 Hz, and as far as I can tell, 60 Hz (or PAL) is all the Flea HDMI can handle.

Would love to see some up to date info on this. Obviously, there should be absolutely nothing keeping the Flea HDMI from handling 1080p24 if it can handle 1080i60 which is a higher bandwidth rate.

There are no differences in the brightness or contrast with The Flea. We address noise and increase detail with our detail enhancement. Taking pictures with a camera is probably the issue here.

Kind regards,

Anthony M
Algolith Inc.
Sales Channel and Tech Support.

I was under the impression that the Flea has no effect on brightness or contrast. These pictures seem to indicate otherwise.

If you use a Flea and have a properly calibrated display, you may have to calibrate it again.

Please contact Anthony at amerakian@algolith.com
Hanna does not do technical support, I do.

Kind regards,

Anthony M
Algolith Inc.
Sales Channel and Technical Support

Contact Hanna van Beekum with Algolith at hvanbeekum@algolith.com and I bet she can either answer your questions, or find somebody that can.

There are no differences in the brightness or contrast with The Flea. We address noise and increase detail with our detail enhancement. Taking pictures with a camera is probably the issue here.

Kind regards,

Anthony M
Algolith Inc.
Sales Channel and Tech Support.

I'm not sure if this thread is still active, but I thought I'd comment on this statement. I recently purchased a Flea HDMI and after testing have discovered that it fails below black with both RGB and 444YCbCr and appears to expand to PC levels with RGB. 422 YCbCr to the unit is the only way to obtain proper video levels. This is similar behavior to the Toshiba HD DVD players (SI chip hardware bug). I would assume this isn't correctable via firmware.

Therefore, if your source/display is utilizing RGB (DVI, some HDMI displays/sources) then brightness and contrast settings will most definitely need readjustment. Furthemore, some displays will not be able to properly display PC levels regardless of calibration.

I have no idea whether this is the source of what is seen in the pics though.

I just upgraded to software version 2.05 today. There is no change in the behavior outlined above.

I see the same thing: below black is totally clipped. I've fired off an e-mail to Algolith, so we'll see what they say.

I just upgraded to software version 2.05 today. There is no change in the behavior outlined above.

there is v 2.05? I just received a new unit back after i sent mine in under warranty. it came with v2.04 but it seems rock solid compared with the one I had before.
I also got the remote for the Flea. That makes it much easier to adjust the settings and to turn it on and off.

edit: I see there is a v2.07 on the website. Now that this new one is working well, I'm afraid to upgrade the firmware and mess something up. I guess i can hold off upgrading it for a while since it is working well with v2.04. Although I see 2.05 provides better compatibility for some cable boxes. That is one thing I had a problem with on my old unit. On my replacement I only have my S3 TiVo connected to it right now. I didn't connect the Scientific Atlanta box.

edit. v2.07 was just released today.

According to the release notes, 2.07 just improves compatibility with HDMI 1.3 displays -- nothing earth-shattering for Luddites like myself struggling along with HDMI 1.1. ;)

Anyone else notice how prominent the Flea is on their Web site now? It's on the splash page and is the most prominent product under Home Theater on the home page. I think they must be selling extremely well.

I'm sure I'll try V2.07. Unfortuntately, the below black clipping/expansion to PC levels is a hardware issue assuming the situation is similar to what occurred with the HDDVD players. Seems like I remember some of the BlueRAy players were effected as well but I'm not sure.

422 YCbCr is the key to getting the proper levels with this bug. I'd suspect the Pio elite BD player would do it for both BD and DVD via 480i HDMI. The Oppo 970 I use only will do RGB and 444YCbCr.

I don't know of any Sat boxes that do 422. Both of mine do RGB (one via DVI and the other HDMI RGB).

The new Samsung 260 OTA tuner I have does 444 not 422 over HDMI.

Quick question, if you will.


I plan on using the Flea HDMI, but I have HD channels and a HD-box.

Someone brought up a good point in the receivers thread. I plan on getting a HK 745 receiver, which does 720p and 1080i up converting via DCDi.


Am I supposed to downscale the HD images to 480i, pass that through the Flea, then use the receiver for up converting?

HD cable box @ 1080i > downscaled to 480i > send 480i signal through Flea > into 745 receiver for up converting @ 1080i > finally, to my TV


Would this be right?

I plan on using the Flea HDMI, but I have HD channels and a HD-box.

Am I supposed to downscale the HD images to 480i, pass that through the Flea, then use the receiver for up converting?

HD cable box @ 1080i > downscaled to 480i > send 480i signal through Flea > into 745 receiver for up converting @ 1080i > finally, to my TV

I recently pulled mine out of my system (due to 24P issues with my particular Blu-ray player), however this is how I did it:
LD, DVD, HD-DVD, etc > into 4806CI receiver (all signals upconverted if needed by receiver to 1080i) > into Flea @1080i > into JVC RS1 (projector). While it may be less than optimal (from the Flea's standpoint), the Flea does support 1080i and I get the convenience of using my receiver for the switching.

Larry

I recently pulled mine out of my system (due to 24P issues with my particular Blu-ray player), however this is how I did it:
LD, DVD, HD-DVD, etc > into 4806CI receiver (all signals upconverted if needed by receiver to 1080i) > into Flea @1080i > into JVC RS1 (projector). While it may be less than optimal (from the Flea's standpoint), the Flea does support 1080i and I get the convenience of using my receiver for the switching.

Larry


I don't think I truly understand. So you're saying you sent 1080i signals into the Flea and used the receiver for switching?

device @ 1080i > Flea > receiver > TV ?

Ideally, you would send a native signal to the Flea for best performance. Use native mode on the Sat box and feed that to the Flea before the receiver sees it. This is per the Flea manual and has something to do with the NR being done at the pixel level IIRC.

That said, there's no rule you can't try it other ways and see how it looks. :)

I certainly would not downconvert everything to 480i though.

Ideally, you would send a native signal to the Flea for best performance. Use native mode on the Sat box and feed that to the Flea before the receiver sees it. This is per the Flea manual and has something to do with the NR being done at the pixel level IIRC.

That said, there's no rule you can't try it other ways and see how it looks. :)

I certainly would not downconvert everything to 480i though.


On my cable box, I can select all the formats. (480i/p 720p or 1080i) Not sure what the NR is, since I have had the ability to select any one I wanted.

So should I select them all, and let the Flea do it's thing?

[QUOTE=UWisconsin97]I don't think I truly understand. So you're saying you sent 1080i signals into the Flea and used the receiver for switching?

[QUOTE]

He's saying he took the output of the receiver into the Flea and then on to the display. That is not the recommended method from Algolith though. See above.

On my cable box, I can select all the formats. (480i/p 720p or 1080i) Not sure what the NR is, since I have had the ability to select any one I wanted.

So should I select them all, and let the Flea do it's thing?

The native signal resolution would be whatever it is originally. For example, CBS HD is 1080i, ABC HD is 720p, NBC HD is 1080i, FOX HD is 720p, and so on.

Non HD channels will be native 480i or 480p.

Some Sat/cable boxes have a "native" mode which automatically detects the native resolution and sends it on through. So if you switch to CBS HD, you automatically get 1080i, if you switch to ESPN HD you automatically get 720p.

Some boxes have modes like 1080i/480i which would be next best as it would at least send native for channels matching those resolutions. In that case all HD would be sent 1080i and all SD sent 480i.

If you don't have any of these modes on the box, then just pick 1080i or 720p whichever looks best. Probably 1080i would be my recommendation.

good to see some Algolith support on the forum. Anthony, how are you?

He's saying he took the output of the receiver into the Flea and then on to the display. That is not the recommended method from Algolith though. See above.
Exactly. I have multiple HDMI sources and the Flea can only switch two. I just want to sit down and watch a movie (and not spend a lot of time switching inputs on multiple devices).

Per Anthony's (Algolith) suggestion, I tried hooking it up direct and was unable to discern any improvement as a result of feeding it the "native" resolution (although the Flea's improvement is subtle at best, at least for me).

Larry

Agreed. But I think it's supposed to be subtle.

Exactly. I have multiple HDMI sources and the Flea can only switch two. I just want to sit down and watch a movie (and not spend a lot of time switching inputs on multiple devices).

Per Anthony's (Algolith) suggestion, I tried hooking it up direct and was unable to discern any improvement as a result of feeding it the "native" resolution (although the Flea's improvement is subtle at best, at least for me).

Larry

Use the split screen mode and you will see the difference. I have my FLEA settings pretty low(lower than the recommended settings) and it is still a big difference.

Use the split screen mode and you will see the difference. I have my FLEA settings pretty low(lower than the recommended settings) and it is still a big difference.


Anything wrong with using it on higher settings?

I see what I would call smearing or ghosting of the image if it is et too high. Algolith has default settings to use as a baseline then you just adjust them to your liking. I have mine set so that it works well enough for everything although if I had a really noisy picture I could further adjust the settings but I would rather just leave the settings alone and not play around with it. Which works for me. It does a great job with both HD and SD.

After more than three weeks, I finally got this reply from Algolith re: the below black issue:
_____________________

Sorry about the lateness of the reply. I had to speak to a few people here internaly in order to attempt to give you a proper response. I was informed that, for DVD's, television etc, the below black (0-15) and above white (236 - 255) color ranges are not used. These ranges are only used with PC RGB and the color space that should be used on your source ideally should be YCbCr / YPbPr 4:2:2 to achieve best results with the Flea with HDMI. The "clipping below black" experienced during the Digital Video Essentials test pattern should in no way affect the quality of the video output you will receive when viewing regular DVD's and television programming.

To answer your question: This is not something that can be resolved via firmware/software.

Best regards.

Sounds like they're bitten with the same old hardware bug. The problem of course is that 422 may not be readily available from your source.

I've found something interesting, though. Playing around with my SonyBDP300 blue-ray player into the Flea I've been able to get display of below black (based on the THX optimizer pattern) by adjusting the brightness control on the player. You then have to recalibrate at the display or elsewhere, but it does seem to work with both Studio RGB and 444YCbCr. The Sony player has selectable settings for YCBCr, Studio RGB, and PCRGB for the HDMI output. Of course it won't show below black with PCRGB no matter what you do which is correct behavior, so this leads me to believe this is actually a viable workaround. The stipulation is that it seems to require a brightness control at the source.

To me this is less than acceptable response coming from a company that specializes in video processors.

I recently purchased a Sony BDP-300 blue-ray player. No matter what I do, I can't get multichannel pcm to pass through the Flea HDMI to my pre/pro. It either lacks the center/rears, sounds like static, or the sound is accompanied by a high-pitch whine. DD bitstream passes fine. Multi pcm works fine from the bdp300 when the player is hooked directly to the pre/pro.

The one time I connected my HD DVD player to my HDMI Flea last week I also got a high pitched whine with multichannel PCM. I was just trying it out but I typically only use my HDMI Flea for my broadcast sources.

I retested yesterday using the Sony BDP300, Toshiba A1, and Oppo 970.

I could not get workable multi PCM through the Flea with any of them.

I also tried reverting from firmware V2.05 to V2.04 on the Flea. No dice.

Then upgraded to firmware V2.07. No dice.

I guess I was mistaken when I said it worked with the Oppo before.

All sources work fine with the Flea out of the loop.

I have an email in to Algolith.

I got a call (that's right a phone call:)) today from Algolith tech support about the multi-PCM issue and they are looking into this.

Quick question about the Flea. Does anyone know what the latency is on it? Other then SD TV, I was thinking about using the other port for my PS3 to play PS2 and PS1 games.

Thanks

EDIT: Duh, PS2 does not have HDMI. I guess I'll use the PS3 ;)

I don't but I'll bet Ofer will know. Look him up . He's around here somewhere.

It's very low. I can't remember exactly, but it was less than a one frame delay.

I have a Flea in between Oppo DV-970HD and a lumagen visionHDP. Statuswindow reports RGB levels in to the flea.

To get the oppo to send YCbCr I have to force after each reboot. Changing from RGB to YCbCr 4:4:4, this is due the Oppo assume Lumagen doesn't handle YCbCr colorspace over DVI-connector. Is it possible that the Flea assume the same, forcing the signal to RGB?

I recently purchased a Sony BDP-300 blue-ray player. No matter what I do, I can't get multichannel pcm to pass through the Flea HDMI to my pre/pro. It either lacks the center/rears, sounds like static, or the sound is accompanied by a high-pitch whine. DD bitstream passes fine. Multi pcm works fine from the bdp300 when the player is hooked directly to the pre/pro.


I get exactly the same thing with my Flea HDMI. Just static and whining when trying to pass multi PCM. Any fix yet Algolith??

Anybody know whether Algolith has anything planned for the Flea line at CES? I'm wondering whether there's any chance prices will drop on the current critters....

To current FLEA HDMI users ,does it really improve 1080/24p source significantly ? Any words from Algolith on a new version Flea Hdmi which passes BTB on RGB signal ?

To current FLEA HDMI users ,does it really improve 1080/24p source significantly ? Any words from Algolith on a new version Flea Hdmi which passes BTB on RGB signal ?as any other source. I use my HDMI flea for all my broadcast sources which always needs cleaning up. I don't use it with HD DVD or BD. So for 1080P24 I have my VUDU box going through the HDMI FLEA at 1080P24and it works just fineat cleaning up the image.

as any other source. I use my HDMI flea for all my broadcast sources which always needs cleaning up. I don't use it with HD DVD or BD. So for 1080P24 I have my VUDU box going through the HDMI FLEA at 1080P24and it works just fineat cleaning up the image.

Thanks , then I suppose there is not much impact when using with HD DVD and Blu ray :confused:. By the way , will input YCbCr 4:4:4 to Flea hdmi clip BTB ? I check my Panasonic BD30 and it output YCbCr 4:4:4 while Toshiba A35 output YCbCr 4:2:2 at 24p .

I never tried to use the HDMI Flea with my HD DVD or BD player. The HDMI Flea can't handle anything higher than 1080P24. And the HD DVD and BD players I have will output at 1080P24, but they also output at 1080P60 depending on the content and whether you are in a menu, or booting up etc. So I never ran the players through the FLEA. But for the most part I don't think the HD DVD/BD titles need the processing of the FLEA.

I never tried to use the HDMI Flea with my HD DVD or BD player. The HDMI Flea can't handle anything higher than 1080P24. And the HD DVD and BD players I have will output at 1080P24, but they also output at 1080P60 depending on the content and whether you are in a menu, or booting up etc. So I never ran the players through the FLEA. But for the most part I don't think the HD DVD/BD titles need the processing of the FLEA.

Hi aaronwt, did you try increasing the detail enhancement level during HD and BD playback and see if it sharpen the details on 1080p24 input source? And can we bypass the Flea till it get into the movies then on the processing ?

Thanks , then I suppose there is not much impact when using with HD DVD and Blu ray :confused:. By the way , will input YCbCr 4:4:4 to Flea hdmi clip BTB ? I check my Panasonic BD30 and it output YCbCr 4:4:4 while Toshiba A35 output YCbCr 4:2:2 at 24p .

I can only speak to my experience with the HDMI Mosquito and assume the same would apply to the Flea. I found that the Mosquito generally did not improve the PQ of 1080p material through a BD or HD DVDD player, whether at 24, 50, or 60 fps and correspondence with Anthony from Algolith confirmed those findings. I believe it may be in some of the earlier posts on this thread. if not, you can always email them.

By the way , will input YCbCr 4:4:4 to Flea hdmi clip BTB ? I check my Panasonic BD30 and it output YCbCr 4:4:4 while Toshiba A35 output YCbCr 4:2:2 at 24p .

422 is the only way to reliably get below black according to my testing. 444 ends up at video levels with below black clipped and RGB expands to PC levels. The problems this creates are relatively minor assuming you can calibrate correctly but it's still incorrect.

Anyone using an HDMI flea with a Panny BD30? I just received a Flea and I can't get 1080p/24 to pass from the Panny to the Flea. Prior to inserting the flea between my BD30 and my projector, it passed 1080/24 fine to my RS1. Now I get an unsupported message when I try it. I'm about to hook up my DirecTV HD DVR to the flea and I'm sure that will work fine but I really wanted to process the BD discs as well.
Anyone have success? I might be missing something in the settings.

Hi aaronwt, did you try increasing the detail enhancement level during HD and BD playback and see if it sharpen the details on 1080p24 input source? And can we bypass the Flea till it get into the movies then on the processing ?


I just don't use the Flea with my HD DVD and BD players. The content really doesn't need the noise reduction capabilities of the Flea. I do use the Flea with all my broadcast sources.

I also use a BD30 and it outputs 4:2:2 just like my XA2 does(those go straight into my Denon 3808 then into my VP50pro). Although all my broadcast sources, and the PS3 output 4:4:4.

Anyone using an HDMI flea with a Panny BD30? I just received a Flea and I can't get 1080p/24 to pass from the Panny to the Flea. Prior to inserting the flea between my BD30 and my projector, it passed 1080/24 fine to my RS1. Now I get an unsupported message when I try it. I'm about to hook up my DirecTV HD DVR to the flea and I'm sure that will work fine but I really wanted to process the BD discs as well.
Anyone have success? I might be missing something in the settings.


The Flea can't handle anything higher than 1080P24, and the BD player will output 1080P60 during the menus and depending on the disc. It doesn't output 1080P24 until you watch the movie. At least this seems to usually be the case. But this is also another reason not to use the BD and Hd DVD players with the Flea, since the output is not always 1080P24 and will cause problems when switching between 1080P60 and 1080P24 with the HDMI flea.
The HDMI flea does an excellent job with broadcast sources. It really cleans them up. HD DVD and BD looks very good to begin with.

aaron...
I know it's not really "needed" but I thought it would help clean up some BD discs that have some image noise. I guess it's a moot point because I can't get 24 to pass from the BD30 to the Flea...the BD30 automatically switches over to 1080i and I don't want that.
So far so good for D* HD and SD stuff. Did the split screen so I could see how the changes affected the picture. Very nice. The EI package on D* looks better than it ever has now.

The Flea works fine with 1080p24 from my Sony BD player. It sounds like an HDMI communication problem to me. The Panasonic may not be "forcing" 1080p24 and instead "asking" the Flea what to send.

With the bdp-s300 in "source direct" mode and with 1080p24 enabled, the player automatically switches among 1080i for menus and 1080p24 for the feature. It also outputs 480i for DVD. None of this switching presents a problem with the Flea.

The lack of multichannel PCM support through the Flea remains however. This is the main reason I've now taken it out of my system and it's sitting idle.:(

cpcat...
Yes, I do believe it is because the BD30 doesn't do a forced 24fps. I tried plugging in my A35 to see if it would work and it didn't either. I don't know if the A35 does forced 24 or not - apparently not because when I hit display after starting an HD DVD, it says 1080i. :(
One of the main reasons I invested in this thing was to clean up my BD and HD DVDs that needed cleaning up. I watch just as many HD optical discs as I do broadcast HD shows/movies/sports so I feel like I will only get half the value out of this thing.

Hello :)

Does flea hdmi pass Dolby digital at 640 kb/s and DTS at 1.5Mb/s ?

Thank you

regards

Two questions, I decided I want to purchase a flea.

1. If i use this for gaming will it introduce problems? It would mainly be 720p games on 360 and ps3. And if so can you turn flea processing off and just use it to pass through for certain things like games?

2. Where can I get one???

Two questions, I decided I want to purchase a flea.

1. If i use this for gaming will it introduce problems? It would mainly be 720p games on 360 and ps3. And if so can you turn flea processing off and just use it to pass through for certain things like games?

2. Where can I get one???

In the flea user manual :

Processing
Use the processing function to enable or disable noise reduction, block artifact reduction, detail enhancement and dynamic range stretching (the «processing» of the video image). When Processing is off, your image is displayed as received from the source.

Can you point me to the manual? Thanks a ton.

Can you point me to the manual? Thanks a ton.

On this page : http://www.algolith.com/en/support/legacy-products/legacy-user-guides/index.html

Or : http://www.algolith.com/fileadmin/user_upload/legacy/3014-8001UG-202.pdf

You can contact algolith to buy a FLEA HDMI : http://www.algolith.com/support/legacy-products/index.html

Last question, I know it mentions settings are saved on SD/HD basis, but can I manually save and apply settings perhaps with a button push? The reason why I ask is things like my satellite receiver can only output 1080i, obviously I wouldnt want the same processing for hd content as I would sd content, so I was curious if I could manually save and activate the settings myself.

Last question, I know it mentions settings are saved on SD/HD basis, but can I manually save and apply settings perhaps with a button push? The reason why I ask is things like my satellite receiver can only output 1080i, obviously I wouldnt want the same processing for hd content as I would sd content, so I was curious if I could manually save and activate the settings myself.

Per each HDMI input, there is an automatic detection of SD and HD content based on the resolution.

When flea receives 480i/p or 576 i/p, your setting are saved in the "SD MEMORY" on the input and automatically recalled by flea with these resolutions.

When flea receives 720p or 1080i or 1080p24, your setting are saved in the "HD MEMORY" of the input and automatically recalled by flea with these resolutions.

But can I recall these or apply them myself? See my satellite upscales everything to 1080i, so the flea will be getting 1080i HD, and 1080i SD, this is how dishnetwork receivers are made, you can only select one output resolution, I obviously want to apply different settings on the 1080i SD, then I do on the 1080iHD, can I press the recall button manually and apply the different settings, or can I only have one setting per input then?

But can I recall these or apply them myself? See my satellite upscales everything to 1080i, so the flea will be getting 1080i HD, and 1080i SD, this is how dishnetwork receivers are made, you can only select one output resolution, I obviously want to apply different settings on the 1080i SD, then I do on the 1080iHD, can I press the recall button manually and apply the different settings, or can I only have one setting per input then?

I think it is ONE setting for HD ( 720p / 1080i and 1080p24 ) and one setting for SD ( 480 i/p and 576 i/p ). For flea 1080i upscaled from a SD source or 1080i from a native HD source is the same thing .... but I'm not sure.

alex_t is correct. There is no way to manually recall settings. A workaround would be to split (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011303&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2) your satellite box output so that it goes into BOTH inputs on the Flea. Then you could create different settings for each input, and switch inputs depending on what you are watching (SD vs. HD).

But can I recall these or apply them myself? See my satellite upscales everything to 1080i, so the flea will be getting 1080i HD, and 1080i SD, this is how dishnetwork receivers are made, you can only select one output resolution, I obviously want to apply different settings on the 1080i SD, then I do on the 1080iHD, can I press the recall button manually and apply the different settings, or can I only have one setting per input then?

Hello.

I received my FLEA HDMI yesterday and I checked it for you.

1080i from a native HD source or 1080i from an upscaled source is the same thing for flea. Consequently, with 1080i flea will apply the HD settings ( and with 720p/1080p24 too ).

For the moment I tested it with a 576i SD source and FLEA is really impressive :eek: Dolby digital at 640 kb/s and DTS at 1.5Mb/s pass without issue on HDMI.

1080p24 will be tested soon.

:)

Glad to see there is a Huge Post on the HDMI~Flea finally.

I have been trying to resolve a few issues with my Flea.

First off, I would like to say it does a wonderfull job at clearing, sharpening and brightening broadcast SD signals @ 1080i RGB input. I then run the signal into VPpro and the final image is amazingly sharp with high contrast and better detail.

Although most of the improvments are very-fine in gradients...so some might not notice them much, if comparing them to poor SD signals.

Flea Issue:

Having trouble passing PCM audio via HDMI. Source is a Bell Express vue receiver, outputting PCM audio only.

I was told by Anchor Bay that the Bell receiever cannot sync up to the TV with an HDMI repeater in the chain (Flea).

But when I was running V1.0 with the Vp-pro...the audio via HDMI synced up with no problems...upgraded to V1.03 and the audio problems returned.

Still have not found out what could be cuasing the HDMI audio syncing prblems through the Flea> I Turned Off HDMI repater mode and problem still persists.

When I switch HDCP mode on the Vp-pro to off> HDMI audio output on the vP-pro Menu is avaialble...and I get HDMI audio.

How ever when I switch my TV off...and then back on again...HDMI audio sync is lost, and HDMI AUDIO OUTPUT is not displayed in the VP's audio menu.

I have to toggle the HDCP menu on and off in order for the audio to synce up with my TV again.


Why am I getting audio syncing occassionally? I pressed the info button on the menu to see what sort of audio was pasing through when it was not passing audio and it stated the input as DTS? Instead of 48khz PCM?

Where can I download newer firmware from Algolith on their webs-site?

Does anyone at Algolith know of a solution to this problem?

I don't think they've had a new firmware in over a year. I use my Flea with a VP50pro also, but all my broadcast sources are DD or two channel pcm. On the pcm channels I have no syncing problems. Although the output of my flea goes to a Denon 3808 before going to my VP50 pro.

Hello.

1080p24 has been tested with success. FLEA works very well.

But with 1080p24 and after one hour of using FLEA was very very hot. I think, I'm going to add a little fan to cool it ( for instance a fan for PC Hard drive )

To solve the audio issue (passing various formats), I route everything first to my receiver (Blue-ray & HD-dvd players set to 1080i), then I output the video from the receiver to the FLEA and FLEA out connected to my VP50pro.
In this way every source get the FLEA treatment (SD as HD), the downside is that everything goes in the same input on the VP50pro (=no individualt settings, unless yoyu use a HDMI splitter before the VP50). I am very happy with the picture produced!

/Fredrik

I don't think they've had a new firmware in over a year. I use my Flea with a VP50pro also, but all my broadcast sources are DD or two channel pcm. On the pcm channels I have no syncing problems. Although the output of my flea goes to a Denon 3808 before going to my VP50 pro.

It must be my Bell Receiver that can't sync up through 2 sources in the signal chain then. Altthough I sort of blame the Vp-pro also because it's been glitchy since upgrading to v1.03.

The Flea does help fine tune the image, 1080i output from my receiever going into the pro dramatically provides better results with less pixelling on lettering as compared to a 480i signal source. Simply provides sharp, crisp and clear images on decent SD signals, it also helps if you don't sit too close to the TV either since that can effect the perception of the image, otherwsie, National Geographic / Discovery Civilization / and even the Food channel all look amazingly good, and the Video processors provide images the Mimic HD conent.

Hello.

1080p24 has been tested with success. FLEA works very well.

But with 1080p24 and after one hour of using FLEA was very very hot. I think, I'm going to add a little fan to cool it ( for instance a fan for PC Hard drive )

I've been using the HDMi FLEA for almost 1.5 years. It has always been hot but I leave enough space around it for the heat. I have never had any problems related to how hot it gets. It was designed for passive cooling. PAssively cooled devices always get hot.

I am about to purchase a flea and also own bell express vu 9200. What model do you own?

I've been using the HDMi FLEA for almost 1.5 years. It has always been hot but I leave enough space around it for the heat. I have never had any problems related to how hot it gets. It was designed for passive cooling. PAssively cooled devices always get hot.

Thank you :)

I leave enough space too.

regards

I am about to purchase a flea and also own bell express vu 9200. What model do you own?


I own the newer HD PVR model (can't remember model#)...there are no audio issues with the flea going direct to the TV, but when the signal goes through the Vp-pro- then audio synicng issues occur.

422 is the only way to reliably get below black according to my testing. 444 ends up at video levels with below black clipped and RGB expands to PC levels.

So if I understand correctly 444 is still a better choice than RGB out on your DVD player. I have a Oppo 970 which doesn't have 422 as an option. I tried to look at the 480i over HDMI DVD players thread and was sad that it didn't state which of these players offer 422. Only one person stated that the Pioneer DVD recorder can do this, but I would like to know if there were any other models that did 422 over 480i.

What are peoples general opinions on the "starting points" listed in the manual? I find that having the 2D filter at 10 and detail enhancement at 10 are high for SD sources since I use it exclusively for DVDs and not cable. I do like the BAR at 2 and 3 though.

So if I understand correctly 444 is still a better choice than RGB out on your DVD player. I have a Oppo 970 which doesn't have 422 as an option.

Yes, use YCbCr 444. I also have an Oppo 970 and that's what I do as well. If you use RGB, the Flea will expand to PC levels and you'll need to be sure you compensate for that with your display's calibration.

I tried to look at the 480i over HDMI DVD players thread and was sad that it didn't state which of these players offer 422. Only one person stated that the Pioneer DVD recorder can do this, but I would like to know if there were any other models that did 422 over 480i.
The Oppo 980 supports 480i/576i in YCbCr 4:2:2 via HDMI. I'm using the player in conjunction with the FLEA HDMI and a VP50Pro.

Denis

Im having second thoughts about ordering the flea. I dont watch SD on my projector, we have a smaller panasonic plasma to watch it on, its 50 inch but small enough in my theater room to not make out any noise in the picture.

I do watch hd on my projector on bell express vu, but surprisingly I dont see much noise. I was watching cbc, nbc, discovery, and dont see much at all.

That leaves just dvd but im wondering for half the price to get an Xa2?


And I was told that it does not really do much for blue ray.

Im having second thoughts about ordering the flea. I dont watch SD on my projector, we have a smaller panasonic plasma to watch it on, its 50 inch but small enough in my theater room to not make out any noise in the picture.

I do watch hd on my projector on bell express vu, but surprisingly I dont see much noise. I was watching cbc, nbc, discovery, and dont see much at all.

That leaves just dvd but im wondering for half the price to get an Xa2?


And I was told that it does not really do much for blue ray.

I only use my HDMI Flea for Broadcast HD and SD, since that really needs to be cleaned up with all the mosquito noise and macroblocking. The Flea does a great job cleaning it up. I don't use it for HD DVD or BD, plus the Flea doesn't work with any resolutions higher than 1080P24, and depending on your device, some jump back and forth between 1080P60 and 1080P24(depending on what is being displayed) which will cause problems with the Flea since it can't handle 1080P60.

Out of curiosity I plugged my PS3 into the Flea and had some strange audio issues through HDMI. I agree that Blu-ray looks fine without noise reduction so don't really see this as an issue, plus I like my auto switching for devices so only have my Flea currently hooked up between my Oppo and VP since I recently gave up on cable.

The Flea won't properly pass multichannel PCM unfortunately. At one time Algolith was looking into this but I guess it was never addressed.

Is the HDMI flea still being sold or is it discontinued?

Both? You can still buy directly from Algolith, but once the remaining stock is gone, I bet that's it.

Although the output of my flea goes to a Denon 3808 before going to my VP50 pro.

I never considered moving the receiver up the chain since it is currently the last stop before my television. I suppose I can experiment with my Flea and retain uncompressed audio if I place the receiver before it. This would also allow me to pass 1.3 bitstream signal to the receiver. My only concern is that the VP's audio delay wouldn't have an effect if it comes after the receiver. I might switch things around tonight if my receiver (Pio TXH-92) has manual adjustments for audio delay per source.

I never considered moving the receiver up the chain since it is currently the last stop before my television. I suppose I can experiment with my Flea and retain uncompressed audio if I place the receiver before it. This would also allow me to pass 1.3 bitstream signal to the receiver. My only concern is that the VP's audio delay wouldn't have an effect if it comes after the receiver. I might switch things around tonight if my receiver (Pio TXH-92) has manual adjustments for audio delay per source.

The VP won't have any effect since the audio chain stops at the receiver. But this is what I had to do to be able to bitstream the adavcned codecs. It wasn't my original plan, but now that I have it setup this way, I will leave it this way.

Just got a Flea today. I use it for SD and HD cable. At first I was a little disappointed with what I got for the price. After tweaking a little more watching some more TV, I'm appreciating it more and more. I am really surprised at what it can do for HD cable, I wasn't expecting much at all but the subtle NR/block reduction gives a nice improvement. I'm still not using it optimally. My display won't except 480i over HDMI, so I have to let the cable box deinterlace and send the Flea 480p. Once I get the Denon AVR-1909 I can send the Flea 480i and let the Denon (Faroudja FLi2310) deinterlace from there. (Maybe one day the Gefen with Realta will come out and I will pick that up...)

I love that it has separate setting for HD and SD signal and auto detects them.

So far, I don't really like Detail Enhancement. Seems like EE? I keep it much lower than the suggested setting for both HD and SD.

Ok, I love this thing!

I decided to put in to work with my Oppo 983. I have the Oppo outputting 1080i (1366x768 display) and turned NR off in the Oppo. I initially had sharpness at -1, but I decided at put it back to 0 while using the Flea.
I have the Flea setting at:

Block Noise Reduction: off
2D: 5
3D: 2
Detail Enhancement: 2
DNS: off

The result is an excellent picture! :) The edges are much cleaner/sharper. I checked a close-up face shot on side by side mode and the detail loss was very minimal. I could tell without even using side by side that the Flea made an improvement. Distant shots look better also, which IMO is SD biggest downfall vs HD. The 3D rendering also looks slightly improved, perhaps because of the cleaner edges?

I would love to try 480p from the Oppo (using it's great deinterlacer), then into the Flea, then processed by the Gefen TV Scaler Pro (Realta). I'm curious if that would have better results than simply 1080i from the Oppo into the Flea? I would think using the Flea before scaling would be optimal, and perhaps Realta would scale a little better than the ABT1018 chip. Maybe one day I will be able to test that out...

I don't see the sense in outputting 1080i from the Oppo if you have a 768 line display. Better to output 480p -- you'll eliminate a scaling step and the Flea should perform even better. If your display is truly terrible at scaling, you might do well to output 720p from the Oppo, but not 1080i.

I have tried 480p, 720p and 1080i. 1080i has the most detail and I don't notice any added artifacts. It really looks nice. ;)

So far, I don't really like Detail Enhancement. Seems like EE? I keep it much lower than the suggested setting for both HD and SD.

I really don't like the Detail Enhancement on the Flea, which I keep at 0, and think it forms even heavier edges (even on low settings) than my televisions sharpness. Most of the other settings, especially the BAR noise reduction seems to be dependent on the individual DVD I watch.

The 2D filter works wonders on many older anime television DVDs which are comprised of solid and distinct lines and shapes. I used the ED credits for a Geneon title (Kamichu) to illustrate what the Flea does since it dramatically got rid of some major mosquito noise (2D setting around 5) without much detail loss. The before and after was even more dramatic than the included demo disc.

I don't see the sense in outputting 1080i from the Oppo if you have a 768 line display. Better to output 480p -- you'll eliminate a scaling step and the Flea should perform even better. If your display is truly terrible at scaling, you might do well to output 720p from the Oppo, but not 1080i.

1080i output works better than 480i, the image is very blocky when running a 480i signal, 1080i smooths out all the jaggies perfectly with no issues at all.

I set my sharpness level to +9 coupled with the pro, not artifact issues at all, the image has more clarity with better image contrast, noticable difference with all sharpness controls off on both processors, broadcasters broadcast unfocused or blurry images to save on bandwidth, but you could never notice them much on a 480p CRT tv.

I've been watching movies on the Oppo 983 + Flea setup for a couple days. It's like a film was just removed from the whole picture. Well mastered DVD's truly have that "looking through a window" look to it now. It's incredible. Some movies easily go up against how they look on HD cable, except cleaner! :D

I can't praise this thing enough.

One thing, it gets really hot. Like within 15 minutes! It has plenty of air flow, is a fan necessary?

It's designed for passive cooling. Just make sure there is plenty of clearance around the sides and above it.

I really wish there was not pcm issues with flea.

I really wish there was not pcm issues with flea.


I don't run my SD through the flea because of the single output, I have my pro set to stretch the image for SD broadcasts, running movies through t hat stretch format will not size the image correctly unfortunatly.

I don't run my SD through the flea because of the single output, I have my pro set to stretch the image for SD broadcasts, running movies through t hat stretch format will not size the image correctly unfortunatly.

You should use an HDMI splitter after the Flea going into the Pro. That way you can have separate input settings on the Pro for each of the two inputs on the Flea. It won't work if you have the Pro set to switch inputs automatically, of course, because both Pro inputs will always be receiving a signal.

You should use an HDMI splitter after the Flea going into the Pro. That way you can have separate input settings on the Pro for each of the two inputs on the Flea. It won't work if you have the Pro set to switch inputs automatically, of course, because both Pro inputs will always be receiving a signal.

I definatly could use an HDMI splitter, although adding another device in the signal chain could degrade the performance, but also would prefer a compact 2 channel low cost splitter, which I don't think exists since most splitters are 4 channels and over $150 or so.

How about 15 bucks.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011303&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2

How about 15 bucks.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011303&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2

Yep, that's the one I use. :)

Ok cpat sold me his! So I got one now to use with my a20 which has the ABT scaling chip like the oppo 983.


Question I have an IR emitter will it work with the flea or do I need a special kind from the company? I already have the codes in the MX-810 database.

Also will this ruin my calibration at all?

Those are my only concerns. m

Question I have an IR emitter will it work with the flea or do I need a special kind from the company? I already have the codes in the MX-810 database.

Also will this ruin my calibration at all?

It should work with your emmitter, BUT the Flea doesn't normally come with an IR receiver -- you have to buy this separately. I use a Gefen IR Receiver (http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:V_Vxha3FGiAJ:www.amazon.com/Gefen-Extender-Amplifiers-Extenders-Converters/dp/B0017M0BQ8+gefen+ir+receiver&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&client=firefox-a), and it works just fine.

While the Flea does clip below-black signals, I don't think it will affect your calibration much at all. Still, it's a always a good idea to re-check your settings when you add a new device to the chain....

For YCbCr inserting the flea shouldn't require recalibration.

For RGB, however, it outputs PC levels so recalibration will be required. If your display has a "PC" setting it should take care of it.

Use YCbCr if you can so this isn't an issue.

The A20 should be utilizing YCbCr if I'm not mistaken.

Ok cpat sold me his! So I got one now to use with my a20 which has the ABT scaling chip like the oppo 983.

To be perfectly clear the Toshiba HD-DVD players (A20/A30/A35) do use the ABT1018 ASIC for scaling, like the Oppo 983. The deinterlacing solution IS NOT the same. The Oppo uses the ABT102, while I am not sure what the Toshiba uses.

It should work with your emmitter, BUT the Flea doesn't normally come with an IR receiver -- you have to buy this separately. I use a Gefen IR Receiver (http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:V_Vxha3FGiAJ:www.amazon.com/Gefen-Extender-Amplifiers-Extenders-Converters/dp/B0017M0BQ8+gefen+ir+receiver&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&client=firefox-a), and it works just fine.

....

I wish I would have known something else worked with it. I bought mine when they were first available from Algolith for around $100.

To be perfectly clear the Toshiba HD-DVD players (A20/A30/A35) do use the ABT1018 ASIC for scaling, like the Oppo 983. The deinterlacing solution IS NOT the same. The Oppo uses the ABT102, while I am not sure what the Toshiba uses.

Yes but the scaling is the same, and the flea wont accept 1080p/60, and I output 1080i, my W5000 does a great job of deinterlacing so we cant use the 983 deinterlacing. Unless I had 720p projector, or the 983 outputted 1080/24.

I just want to ask about the flea. Anyone who has tried it with Blue ray or hd dvd does it remove grain as well? Im not interested in grain removal but I am discussing with someone who is complaining his w5000 shows noise in pirates of the carribean fog scene on the first one. He said the sim2 380E did not show it. I found out it has noise reduction circut but apperantly removes grain. Im just curious if the flea removes grain. If it does not im going to test the scene and hope to still see the grain so I can confirm its not noise.

Grain/noise in dark scenes often can mean the black level (brightness) is set too high. Just a thought.

It should work with your emmitter, BUT the Flea doesn't normally come with an IR receiver -- you have to buy this separately. I use a Gefen IR Receiver (http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:V_Vxha3FGiAJ:www.amazon.com/Gefen-Extender-Amplifiers-Extenders-Converters/dp/B0017M0BQ8+gefen+ir+receiver&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&client=firefox-a), and it works just fine.

While the Flea does clip below-black signals, I don't think it will affect your calibration much at all. Still, it's a always a good idea to re-check your settings when you add a new device to the chain....

Hi,

Please, could you give me the IR code to use with the flea hdmi ?

Thank you.

Regards

Also regarding the flea (was suppose to be delivered tonight when I had free time of course ups doesnt know what the deal is but it says it was suppose to be delivered and it was not)

So I have to ask because it might be a few days before i am home and can try again, but I calibrated using 422 YCbCr from my hd dvd, however I noticed my satellite outputs rgb levels, I find it somewhat to bright and wrong color. Since the flea only accepts YCbCR 422 will it correct the brightness and color issues I have with it currently and out 422 yCbCr, maybe correct my issues is wrong, but I would rather have this apply outputs that I used for calibration? I know its not exactly a fix but if the flea takes rgb and outputs ycbcr 422 levels then my calibration should work for my HD satellite?

Hi,

Please, could you give me the IR code to use with the flea hdmi ?

Thank you.

Regards

http://www.algolith.com/en/support/legacy-products/legacy-upgrades/index.html

Use the codes for the Mosquito -- I believe they are the same, although some won't apply to the Flea.

Since the flea only accepts YCbCR 422 will it correct the brightness and color issues I have with it currently and out 422 yCbCr, maybe correct my issues is wrong, but I would rather have this apply outputs that I used for calibration? I know its not exactly a fix but if the flea takes rgb and outputs ycbcr 422 levels then my calibration should work for my HD satellite?
The Flea accepts 4:2:2, 4:4:4 and RGB and will output the same. It does not perform any sort of colorspace conversion (except for the BTB clipping issue, but I don't think that counts).

http://www.algolith.com/en/support/legacy-products/legacy-upgrades/index.html

Use the codes for the Mosquito -- I believe they are the same, although some won't apply to the Flea.

Thank you very much ;)

The Flea accepts 4:2:2, 4:4:4 and RGB and will output the same.
We should note that RGB is expanded to PC-Level.

Denis

Yes. You need to account for this or the picture will appear overly dark.

I dont know much about pc level but since my projector was calibrated for 4:2:2, will rgb pc level be closer to this? I noticed last night using dve blacker then black pattern, when I switched from satellite to the pattern on hd dvd it did not take affect until i started adjusting the control. So all of a sudden I was seeing way to much brightness in the picture. As soon as I started to adjust the 422 hd dvd was outputting kicked in, and it went back to being dark.

Basically right now I find my satellite to bright or slightly washed out with my calibration which was done on hd dvd.

What pj do you have?

For any 444 YCbCr or 422 YCbCr input to the flea everything is fine and at video levels. For RGB, the Flea expands to PC levels so you'll need to compensate somewhere along the chain. If your pj has a setting for PC use that and it should be fine. It should recognize RGB and use PC levels and automatically utilize video levels for YCbCr whether 444 or 422.

Its a benq w5000. I guess I will just have to try it, I dont know about a pc setting, I use hdmi. Im just guessing since my satellite is currently outputting rgb video (I think) levels the flea will change it to pc levels. Unless my projector compensates for this.

Nevermind my flea just arrived Im just using it with my plasma, dont notice any issues then again my plasma is pretty bright so I dont know if it darkened the image. Will try with my projector tonight when its dark.

So Far I like the dynamic range stretcher, all I am noticing is its fixing the problem with my plasma where skin tones were oversaturated. DOnt know why but on my plasma and projector only my satellite which outputs rgb suffered from oversaturation faces. None of my movies did, I assumed its something with the color space.Will have to test later but it does not seem to be washing out colors.

Actually dynamic range stretcher is now off, it seemed to work like a dynamic iris i could see it darkening and lighting certain scenes.

I looked at the benqw500 manual and from what I can tell there's no PC level adjustment. It does have 0 and 7.5 IRE adjustment, however. Technically, this should ONLY effect analog sources but its possible they've set it up to adjust HDMI as well. If so, IRE 0 may get you closer to PC levels for RGB input.

Only thing I had to recalibrate brightness on was my 360 which was darker. My a20, ps3, and Bell 9242 HD PVR (Dish model 722) are all fine.

Cool.:cool:

Does this thing give a contrast boost as well? It almost seemed like it when using it but then someone in the w5000 thread said it gives a contrast boost.

I had it on during pans labryinth (that movie does not need noise reduction) and anyway during the scene at the begining where captain vidal looks at his watch, he is wearing a black glove, I split the screen in two, and the screen with the flea showed noticeably deeper black level. Also my ps3 black background has become a deeper black. It definately is not darkening the image because I immediately checked my dve disk with the blacker then black bars and it showed that brightness setting was still fine.

Does this thing give a contrast boost as well? It almost seemed like it when using it but then someone in the w5000 thread said it gives a contrast boost.

Maybe you still have Dynamic Range Stretcher turned on? Other than that, it should have no effect on brightness/contrast.

Maybe you still have Dynamic Range Stretcher turned on? Other than that, it should have no effect on brightness/contrast.


Dynamic noise stretching on the Flea should mostly be used for SD broadcast signals that boosts the image's contrast up where more colored detailed can be seen with better contrast & clarity and mimics a life-like HD image. SD dvd could also use this feature if it is a bad copy of the film. IMO any SD dvd that has not been enhanced for wide-screen is really a waste of viewing time due to the poor transfer of the film to DVD on most disks. I have a copy of Pan's labrynth on SD DVD (enhanced for wide screen Version) and the clarity and colors are quite vivid and sharp, motion blur or ghosting is unoticable during 3:2 pulldown. (upscaled via Vp-pro).

Asking around and I'm finding out that the Flea is "on clearance sale" from at least one very reliable source.

Does that mean a newer product is forthcoming or is that just the end of the line here? I can get one of these new on clearance sale for a hell of a great price and I'm considering it although I can wait if a newer and "better" product is around the corner.

EDIT: I'm told they've pulled out of the home market entirely. This is it.

Yep. Get 'em while you can.

Yep. Get 'em while you can.

I'm debating it. I know I'm almost certainly getting a DVDO Edge when those are available and it'll just be a question of if/how much the Flea offers vs. the Edge's NR/Mosquito capabilities.

DVDO's implementation of those things is supposed to very good as well.

I'm debating it. I know I'm almost certainly getting a DVDO Edge when those are available and it'll just be a question of if/how much the Flea offers vs. the Edge's NR/Mosquito capabilities.

DVDO's implementation of those things is supposed to very good as well.


The VP50pro with the FLEA is a good combination in my setup. But take one of those out and the picture from broadcast suffers.

how much the Flea offers vs. the Edge's NR/Mosquito capabilities
The Edge only implements MNR - the FLEA also offers BAR and a 3D-NR (which must be handled with care by nature but can be helpful at a low level). The MNR of the FLEA is -from my point of view- better than the MNR of the VP50Pro (that implements the same algorithm when compared to the Edge) that can be quite destructive. Furthermore the granularity of the options is finer. But you have to keep in mind that the FLEA is made for DCT material (=> MPEG2), the Edge will also process H.264 at a reasonable level.

A combination of FLEA and Edge would be the way to go - because NR is ony one part of a good image.

Denis

Is it ok to leave my flea on? I have a computer fan under it and it stays perfectly cool.

I have the gefen ir receiver, works great. but I would rather not add other commands to all my MX-810 remote activities. Simply because should it not register sometime (it works 95 percent of the time though) my wife would have no idea what to do. Beyond that I also have a ton of macro's already going (receiver, projector, screen, device, lights, ect...) I would rather not add more commands to make it longer and more complex.

The Edge only implements MNR - the FLEA also offers BAR and a 3D-NR

The Edge also has 3D DNR but it's not user adjustable like the MNR.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14377175#post14377175

The Flea won't properly pass multichannel PCM unfortunately. At one time Algolith was looking into this but I guess it was never addressed.

So using it with the Oppo 980 for DVD and DVD-A/SACD is out then? That hurts.

So using it with the Oppo 980 for DVD and DVD-A/SACD is out then? That hurts.

DVD shouldn't be a problem if you just bitstream the DD and DTS. I only use my FLEA with broadcast sources which is either stereo pcm or DD. Those two audio formats work fine with it.

DVD shouldn't be a problem if you just bitstream the DD and DTS. I only use my FLEA with broadcast sources which is either stereo pcm or DD. Those two audio formats work fine with it.

I had hoped to use it with my Oppo 980, but it plays double duty for DVD and hi-res audio. I suppose I could always get a HDMI selector or splitter (or a second 980 :p)



BTW - FLEA only has HDMI inputs correct? No component?

Are there any other products out there that are as good as the FLEA for noise reduction that have component and HDMI?


BTW 2 - Anyone know if a scientific atlanta explorer 8300hd outputs 422? :p

BTW - FLEA only has HDMI inputs correct? No component?


Algolith also make a component/S-video version of both the Flea and Mosquito.

I for some reason have the instruction book for the component version and here are some differences I can see, The HDMI will display the test pattern when no signal is detected while the component has it as a selectable option. The component has a MNR/DNR toggle option. The HDMI has a variable BAR reduction while the component only has an on and off option.

BTW - FLEA only has HDMI inputs correct? No component?
You could use a YPbPr to HDMI converter. Unfortunately my converter transforms to RGB with PC-Level - useless in combination with the FLEA. But maybe there are converters that deliver RGB with Videolevel or even YCbCr.

Denis

What the hell ... trigger has been pulled :p

What the hell ... trigger has been pulled :p

Looking forward to your impressions. :)

You could use a YPbPr to HDMI converter. Unfortunately my converter transforms to RGB with PC-Level - useless in combination with the FLEA. But maybe there are converters that deliver RGB with Videolevel or even YCbCr.

Denis

Google EXT-FULLHD - it's one of the best HDMI-RGB converters out there. :cool:

Google EXT-FULLHD - it's one of the best HDMI-RGB converters out there. :cool:

That looks pretty awesome ... though its a HDMI to RGB converter, we're talking about the other way around :p

That looks pretty awesome ... though its a HDMI to RGB converter, we're talking about the other way around :p

Meh, it's pretty late here. :D Then check <insert the correct name> from the same mfr... ;)

:p

I'm actually trying to see if they make something like that, but I can't find the manufacturers site. They are called Moome?

Grrr my flea is the culprit with an issue im having, when i switch from rgb to hd dvd or blue ray the picture is washed out with to much brightness. I have to hit the brightness or contrast slider then the proper black/brightness kicks in! Im assuming its not switching to proper video levels after.

Very annoying.

Im thinking of just putting a dvi adapter in the chain wont that turn everything into rgb? Then I can just recalibrate. Its either that or I add macros to all my activities turning it on and off whenever i switch inputs.

Actually my old splitter hdmi I sold converted everything to pc levels for some reason, maybe I should get this so my display is consistant finally among different sources. Is there any draw back to be using pc level if you calibrate properly?

Well im stumped at what the flea and or the projector i have is doing. Im thinking its the flea though.

At various times switching back and forth I put the dve blacker then black pattern on my ps3, and hd dvd which output YBR422 and 444. Then switched between sources the rgb hd satellite and 360 which are rgb, sometimes when switching back to hd dvd and ps3 it would be way to bright all of a sudden, next time it would be right where it should be. I dont get it.

The only way to solve it was to create a macro for each activity/device, turning the flea off and on everytime i switch devices.

If im understanding this though pc levels should be darker? Maybe in 2.07 the last firmware algolith tried to correct it by increasing brightness on rgb or maybe my projector is trying to move it to studio levels?

I am at a loss for words on this one. Does not make sense. Especially when it only happens some of the time, and the only consistant way to solve it was to create a macro to turn flea off and on each time.

My Flea suddenly stopped passing audio through HDMI and the blue light was off. I also noticed that it was a tad hotter than normal. My room is not especially warm and the Flea is sitting on a corner of my stand a good distance from any heat generators or walls.

I unplugged everything and let the Flea cool down and it seems to be working fine once again. Although I freaked out for a bit things seem okay now. Is there any reason to have the Flea flushed against the stand? After the above incident I decided to keep it at a steeper angle so that the bottom vents are exposed instead of against the base.

I keep a small room fan pointed at my Flea/Receiver/TV quite often. Mostly because I noticed my Flea gets really hot, and my plasma is like a room heater. It's a small bump in my electric bill, but it's worth piece of mind...

The flea should be well ventilated in front and behind the unit.

Who is still selling these? And what ballpark price range are they selling for?

There is a "No discussion of prices other than MSRP" rule on AVS if I recall. With that said I will say I bought mine used for a real good deal about the same time the VP50 Pro was released. There were a handful of people who were getting rid of their Fleas on this board as well as on eBay during this time since I suspect many of them thought the VP50 Pro's noise reduction would be sufficient.

There seems to be fewer of them available since then with the majority of Flea and Mosquito units that I've found being of the non-HDMI variety.

Is there actually an MSRP for a product that is discontinued?

Isn't the Flea discontinued?

They are discontinued but I sent an email to Sales at Algolith and was told they still have Flea HDMI and Mosquito units in stock. Standard 1 year warranty applies but no returns (so I can't try it without fully committing). As far as price, I figure what I was told in the email is the new MSRP now that there's a limited supply; it is $795 for the Flea HDMI. International shipping available.

I wish they would still accept returns since I would like to be able to try it out in my setup to see if it makes enough of a difference to justify the cost. Who knows, maybe DVDO will seize this opportunity and start making a separate noise reduction unit to accompany my VP50. (Wishful thinking?)

I guess that's 20% less than the retail price used to be, if I remember correctly. It is an excellent product. I purchased mine from AVS around 1.5 years ago and it has been worth it.

That's too bad that the product is discontinued now. I hope that mine doesn't break down anytime soon. I really wouldn't want to go back to watching broadcast TV without it.

I hope that mine doesn't break down anytime soon. I really wouldn't want to go back to watching broadcast TV without it.

I don't see algolith not being able to repair a product they made, I'm sure the processor was developed and manufactured both by them, and if they're still offering a 1 year warranty for any unit's available then it means they have the resources available to repair the product also. If your looking for one you should try the dealers listed on algolith's site that sell them. I also hoped the new Vp-50pro had sofisticated Mosquito noise reduction also, but it seems that> that technology is a whole different ball-park altogether, and DVDO hasn't expressed interest in further persuing in the development of that technology, algolith's MSN is the best in the industry, DVDO's MSN is 2D not 3D, and only apply's to static objects that don't move.

DVDO's MSN is 2D not 3D, and only apply's to static objects that don't move.

From my understanding, MSN and 3DNR are separate technologies. MSN is a 2D noise reduction (specifically attempting to find MPEG2 mosquito noise on a frame-by-frame basis), whereas 3DNR, which some call 'random noise reduction', is specifically for noise found during motion. The latter not necessarily and artifact specific to MPEG2.

Granted, some processors/TV’s may couple these techs together, but they are separately adjustable on many others. It should also be noted that DVDO does in fact have 3DNR on some of the processors, including the Vp-50pro.

As stated though, in my experience Alogolith’s tech is the best available, and that includes what I’ve seen from Silicon Optix (Reon in my case).

OT but that is a really cool avatar.

I guess my question, albeit a more hypothetical one, is how soon will cable/satellite providers get with the program and stop compressing the signal so poorly? Isn't compression the culprit for a lot of the problems seen in cable/satellite signals that the Flea fixes? I am just wondering if the "grin and bear it until technology catches up" solution is better than paying up front for a Flea HDMI. I'm a little worried that stock will run out by the time I decide if I want one and I'll be out of luck. Meh, such is life.

OT but that is a really cool avatar.

Thanks :)


I have mad skillz for doing MSpaint touch-ups! :p

I guess my question, albeit a more hypothetical one, is how soon will cable/satellite providers get with the program and stop compressing the signal so poorly? Isn't compression the culprit for a lot of the problems seen in cable/satellite signals that the Flea fixes? I am just wondering if the "grin and bear it until technology catches up" solution is better than paying up front for a Flea HDMI. I'm a little worried that stock will run out by the time I decide if I want one and I'll be out of luck. Meh, such is life.

I don't see many cable/sat providers changing bandwidth levels anytime soon. Stuff like FiOS though, has little to none from my understanding (other than what the broadcasters themselves use).

However, cable/sat providers will likely move to MPEG4 (or potentially VC1/AVC), which will allow for better pictures given the same bandwidth. If/when that happens, I hope the picture is a serious improvement, otherwise it will actually be counterproductive for us Algolith owners. Those encoding methods use totally different compression, so other than the 3DNR, the other features of the Algolith products won't really work correctly for 'fixing' the picture. Worse still, I'm not aware of anyone working on advanced noise reduction for those codecs :(

I use the flea with vc-1 and avc encodes of blue ray and hd dvd the flea still works on that to, removing grain. I asked a question about this on blue ray forum and someone said noise reduction see's any type of artifact and will remove it including film grain noise. Thats why on blue ray forum they hate dnr because it removes grain.

I do notice a difference grain is less noticeable thats for sure, and I compared with my settings and there was no loss of detail.

Settings

2D-6
3D-2
Detail-4

3DNR should certainly work for random motion noise ... I'm talking about the MPEG2 specific 2D noise reduction; block noise and mosquito noise (though mosquito might work, kind of ish).

Block noise though, that can't work properly. And if anything, will damage the image.

I don't see many cable/sat providers changing bandwidth levels anytime soon. Stuff like FiOS though, has little to none from my understanding (other than what the broadcasters themselves use).

However, cable/sat providers will likely move to MPEG4 (or potentially VC1/AVC), which will allow for better pictures given the same bandwidth. If/when that happens, I hope the picture is a serious improvement, otherwise it will actually be counterproductive for us Algolith owners. Those encoding methods use totally different compression, so other than the 3DNR, the other features of the Algolith products won't really work correctly for 'fixing' the picture. Worse still, I'm not aware of anyone working on advanced noise reduction for those codecs :(

Not a big market for it. If there was, Algolith would probably still be making the FLEA.

Not a big market for it. If there was, Algolith would probably still be making the FLEA.

I agree unfortunately. Seems weird though, you think people spending big bucks on video processors would want better noise reduction :confused:

Weirder still, I was under the impression the Flea actually sold pretty well.

Okay, so

current compression methods - the Flea rocks
future codecs - unsure about block noise

I guess my final question would be concerning DVD. That is the one format that I know I will continue watching and that standard obviously won't change. In your opinion, would the addition of the Flea to my video chain before my VP50 result in enough improvement that, in addition to improving current cable/satellite codecs, justifies buying one?

From what I've read, yes. I haven't done enough DVD testing though.

I'll post impressions when I do - I've been pretty swamped.

I agree unfortunately. Seems weird though, you think people spending big bucks on video processors would want better noise reduction :confused:

Weirder still, I was under the impression the Flea actually sold pretty well.

Best guess: A lot of these newer VP's have NR features built in already and most of those folks think those do the job well enough.

Okay, so

current compression methods - the Flea rocks
future codecs - unsure about block noise

I guess my final question would be concerning DVD. That is the one format that I know I will continue watching and that standard obviously won't change. In your opinion, would the addition of the Flea to my video chain before my VP50 result in enough improvement that, in addition to improving current cable/satellite codecs, justifies buying one?

It does for me with the VP50 pro. Take either one of my my video chain(for broadcast sources) and the picture suffers.
The FLEA does an excellent job cleaning out alot of the crap in the broadcast video.

Best guess: A lot of these newer VP's have NR features built in already and most of those folks think those do the job well enough.

I'm admittedly pretty new to external video processors ... and also, haven't really tested with VC-1 and AVC (only use noise reduction for my non-bluray sources currently).

Having said that though, from what I've seen in comparing Silicon Optix (at least Onkyo/Integra's Reon implementation) and some of DVDO's noise reduction ... versus Flea ... I'm not sure I agree.

I've heard the Bell might start introducing Mpeg-4 to some SD channels, but that could be farther down the road in 2009. I'd know the Flea can decode Mpeg-2 codecs but how it will perform with an mpeg4 codec is a good question.

I assume the Flea would still be able to adjust the level of detail, still utilize dynamic noise stretcher, but for3D MNR or block artifact remover is still up in the air...maybe contacting algolith concerning this might get some answers> Or maybe algolith could write a firware update to allow mpeg4 codecs to pass through the flea untouched or re processed properly by the Flea?

[QUOTE=Raistlin_HT;14593754]3DNR should certainly work for random motion noise ... I'm talking about the MPEG2 specific 2D noise reduction; block noise and mosquito noise (though mosquito might work, kind of ish).

Block noise though, that can't work properly. And if anything, will damage the image."

Yea I do not turn block on, does not work properly for anything but mpeg2 but even then i feel it removes to much.

I have faith though since it does so well removing film compression from avc and vc-1 with my 3d and 2d settings that it will always be great until something new comes along.

Here is how someone explained it to me but regarding hollywoods excessive dnr on blue ray

"From the perspective of a noise reduction filter, there's little way to tell the difference. They are both random patterns of high frequency information that vary from frame to frame. As far as the filter is concerned, it's all noise. Real picture detail is usually also wiped out in the process.

There are certain parameters that can be programmed to identify and address specific types of noise (e.g. noise manifested in blocks). But, at the end of the day, any filter you turn up too high or use inappropriately is going to remove information that shouldn't be removed. These things need to be very carefully considered on a case-by-case basis."


The reason why I love the flea is because unlike silicon optix or dvdo I can remove an acceptable amount of noise or compression artifacts without loosing detail. Only product I seen that does this and it also does remove film compression noise from avc and blue ray movies with no loss of detail.

The Flea accepts 4:2:2, 4:4:4 and RGB and will output the same. It does not perform any sort of colorspace conversion (except for the BTB clipping issue, but I don't think that counts).

Hello.

I use a PC for HD content and it outputs 720p RGB full range ( 0-255 ) to my flea hdmi. My feeling is that even with a RGB 0-255 signal the BTB clipping issue remains.

Do you know a simple solution to use flea hdmi with RGB 0-255 signal ? ( I can not output YCbCr with my PC )

Thank you.

Regards

The Edge also has 3D DNR but it's not user adjustable like the MNR.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14377175#post14377175

I felt I should clarify this. The non-user adjustable 3D DNR for Edge is only for component inputs as indicated by DVDO in the Edge thread.