As usual I tested both units on same feed,Dish HD Channel(This time Monday Night Football, I wanted to record fast action motion-Dallas vs NYG-I am not a fan of either,but do not dislike either- both are fine teams), same playback on Sony HD Display -2005 WS, and the 2005 Panny S-97 DVD player at HDMI. Recorded both units to a DVD-RW-Ritek disc. I might add both units were input using a Dish VIP 211 HD receiver with exact same s-vid cords.
Video Quality:
At XP- Both were excellent, almost indistinguishable ,yet I preferred the 640's color somewhat. Both were great quality,sharp video. No doubt. But I favored 640.

At SP- this is where the 640 separated itself and I was surprised. I expected the 640 to not be better since the 531 has beaten every unit at this record mode. 640 was better in my eyes.

At LP- The 640 is definitely better at this 4 hour record mode. Although the 531 is not shabby just as it is not in the previous two modes. I plan to test my 2005 Panny ES-10 at LP vs 640 LP in this thread next week. That will be a good one.

Other Feature points & things( I just tested this tonight for 4 hours so correct any of the errors, although I expect none. :)
Finalizing: It takes the 531 1 minute to finalize a DVD-RW, 3 minutes for the 640
Remotes: 531 is better, has eject disc button and a record mode button on the front- no slideback door as 640.
A DVD-RW initialized(erased,get ready for recording) on one will go on the other-compatible)
This Pio 640 is great for Panny owners who do not want to spend so much for a 2006 HDD Panny and do not care about DV input- Why ,because it records and plays DVD- RAM discs plus every other disc(except HD). This is a first for Pio and a big plus.
Pio 531 has optical laser type audio output, Pio 640 has COAXIAL optical output only.
Also my Pio 640 was manufactured(back plate) in July 2006- anyone elses different?
The Pio 640 is large and solidly built ,has a rear fan on the left back,internally with
vents. Very quiet. It has a VERY similar user graphic interface as the 531, if not better. SO much easier than a Philips or Liteon- puts them to a disgraceful shame. The Liteon and Philips remotes are like calculus but solve nothing. The Pioneer and Panny remotes are simple arithmetic, with more features that solve everything. IMHO. But I guarantee you 80-90 % of users would agree that the ease of the user graphic interface and remote of the Pios and Pannys are light years ahead of Liteons and Philips. There is no doubt. And these two factors are the biggest reasons for huge North American returns of Liteons and Philips back to the store.

additional stuff- the 640 does 720x480 at 4 hours where the 531 only did 352x480 resolution- major for true fanatics!
The 640 has a full frontal face liftdown cover with 2 USB slots -one for connecting a pict bridge printer and the other for a digital camera- (must be a still camera I assume) and/or hopefully an IPOD for music input?

The op manual for the 640 is 134 pages, 531 is 114. However the size of the pages of the 640 is 1/3 smaller. This is a meaningless factoid, IMHO. But some people love this. :)

The manual says you can not chase play a DVD-RAM. Have not tested. Pannys can.

I want to say one more thing- there are probably few HDD manufacturers( OEM) right now that produce a drive that will record every type disc including DVD-RAM. I have not tested every type on this 640 unit so a lot remains. Only a few Brands-Pio ,Panny, Toshiba, Samsung?, LG? have an HDD unit doing this. There will be screw ups with these Drives. It is the fewest screwups that will count. It is almost like a football game. You will have injuries, but can you recover?

At LP- The 640 is definitely better at this 4 hour record mode. Although the 531 is not shabby just as it is not in the previous two modes. I plan to test my 2005 Panny ES-10 at LP vs 640 LP in this thread next week. That will be a good one.

...additional stuff- the 640 does 720x480 at 4 hours where the 531 only did 352x480 resolution- major for true fanatics!Very interesting...we have heard a lot of talk lately (Lordsmurf) about how the bitrate isn't high enough at LP mode to support the 720x480 resolution, yet you say it is definitely better even for football. Was the 531 really bad at LP mode, or is Pioneer doing something different here?

I very much look forward to your Pioneer vs Panasonic comparison, especially for LP mode.
Also my Pio 640 was manufactured(back plate) in July 2006- anyone elses different?My 640 that is easier to get at says it was manufactured in May 2006.

Thanks for your informative review. Guess I'll have to get a 640 to replace my be-loved 531H before the laser gives up. :cool:

Very interesting...we have heard a lot of talk lately (Lordsmurf) about how the bitrate isn't high enough at LP mode to support the 720x480 resolution, yet you say it is definitely better even for football. Was the 531 really bad at LP mode, or is Pioneer doing something different here?

I very much look forward to your Pioneer vs Panasonic comparison, especially for LP mode.
My 640 that is easier to get at says it was manufactured in May 2006.

The 2006 640 manual explicitly says it records 240 minutes at 720x480. The 2005 531 was by no means bad at LP(4 hour) mode. I just do not think it was as good as the the 2005 LSI chip models which would include the liteons and some philips models. The 531 at 210 minutes and under had 720x480. The Pio 531 excels at 2 hours and 40 minutes(160 minutes) and under compared to other 2005 DVDRs. Pio for the 640 definitely did something different to improve LP.

Additional test results- The 640 will take a DVD-RAM from another Panny HDD and transfer to HDD lossless and then burn to a DVD-R at high speed no loss just like the Panny HDDS. It will not burn lossless(high speed) a DVD-R from a Panny non HDD unit, just as the Panny HDDS will not. Some other poster earlier confirmed this and I concur. Panny and Pio HDDs are same in this respect for DVD-RAM transfers from non HDD units.
Another fact- this unit just does not get hot. You can touch the top and it is cold unlike many DVDRs that I have seen- that indicates to me very efficient operation and possible longevity. And it is very quiet- now, I have the July 2006 made unit- there are earlier ones. I bought this from Vanns for $339- Oct 20th, 2006.
The Polaroid HDD from WMart runs loud and is hot to touch as is the Liteon HDD from Costco.

Digital Camera test - I took my olympus camedia still camera and input via USB to the 640- worked great and showed the still shots on the TV when input to the 640 front USB.

It looks like I just entered the big leagues. I found one in the clearance center at Vann's for $288.99. For that price one of my Polaroids goes back. I'll have to wait to see the condition but with free shipping there is very little risk.

Additional test results- The 640 will take a DVD-RAM from another Panny HDD and transfer to HDD lossless and then burn to a DVD-R at high speed no loss just like the Panny HDDS. It will not burn lossless(high speed) a DVD-R from a Panny non HDD unit, just as the Panny HDDS will not. Some other poster earlier confirmed this and I concur. Panny and Pio HDDs are same in this respect for DVD-RAM transfers from non HDD units.Yup, I believe it's the DVD format (VR vs Video mode) which determines whether or not you can copy to HDD at high speed (lossless.) VR mode you can, Video mode you can't. DVD-RAM are always VR mode, so you can always copy content from RAM discs to the 640's HDD at high speed.

It looks like I just entered the big leagues. I found one in the clearance center at Vann's for $288.99. For that price one of my Polaroids goes back. I'll have to wait to see the condition but with free shipping there is very little risk.That's great news Nextoo...congrats. Does this mean we're all going to eventually get instructions on how to replace/expand the HDD on the 640? :)

That's great news Nextoo...congrats. Does this mean we're all going to eventually get instructions on how to replace/expand the HDD on the 640? :)

I wish! But I'm thinking this order may be too tall to fill. :(

I wish! But I'm thinking this order may be too tall to fill. :(Just kidding. I've looked into it too and I know Pioneer has made it tough at least for the earlier 520 model. I assume it's probably the same for the 640. If I have a drive failure in one of my 640s, I might consider attacking it but I'm not messing with it unless I have to.

Great comparison HoustonGuy! I'm glad there is interoperability between Pana/Pioneer with HS-transfer of DVD-RAMs. Looking forward to the LP comparison between the ES10 and this one.

Yup, I believe it's the DVD format (VR vs Video mode) which determines whether or not you can copy to HDD at high speed (lossless.) VR mode you can, Video mode you can't. DVD-RAM are always VR mode, so you can always copy content from RAM discs to the 640's HDD at high speed.
AC- actually the 2005 Pio non HDD DVDR's could burn a DVD-RW and lossless high speed it to The Pio 531 AND the Pio 531 could burn a lossless DVD-R from transfer as the 640s ostensibly can also from a non HDD Pioneer. I believe there is some flag that the Panny non HDDs set on the burned DVD-RAM that prevent a like-maneuver to HDDS with DVD-RAM capability- Just a theory. Or is it because RAM and a DVD-RW are different? I go with the flag theory on the Panny non HDDS, since all our DVD-RAM HDDS are fully interchangeable AND I believe Panny could change this on their non HDD units....if they wanted to. If you can transfer DVD-RAMS between HDD units and burn a lossless DVD-R(which we have long ago established) then there is no reason that one should not be able to do this between a non HDD DVD- RAM capable(all are) Panny DVDR and any DVD-RAM capable HDD.

Or is it because RAM and a DVD-RW are different?Depends on the mode right? Only VR mode DVD recordings can be copied at high-speed to HDD, so we have to specify that and -R/-RW DVD from which we want to copy to HDD must be in VR mode.

So you're saying a DVD-RAM created on a non-HDD Panasonic won't copy at high speed to a Panasonic HDD? Will it copy to a Pioneer HDD?

Depends on the mode right? Only VR mode DVD recordings can be copied at high-speed to HDD, so we have to specify that and -R/-RW DVD from which we want to copy to HDD must be in VR mode.

So you're saying a DVD-RAM created on a non-HDD Panasonic won't copy at high speed to a Panasonic HDD? Will it copy to a Pioneer HDD?

It will copy at high speed to the HDD PANNY but a flag prevents that program from being burned back to a DVD-R at high speed- you can only do it at XP-UNLESS you use a DVD-RAM disc which will copy lossless and at high speed !!!. As far as a Pio 640, so far it will not either(DVD-R lossless burn) and furthermore will not do a DVD-RAM as the Panny WILL do lossless FROM A NON HDD PANNY!!!. Now remember so far Panny HDDS and Pio 640 have been compatible and do not have this problem that non HDD Panny units do as far as transferability. Lets keep things in perspective.

I intend to do more tests but I am fairly sure of the preceding post. Just to quiet your concerns. :) However the only thing that needs to be verified and I will do that next week- Is it true that the 640 will not burn a DVD-RAM high speed and lossless from an original source non HDD Panny burned DVD-RAM as the Panny HDDS will do (and that I have confirmed) Neither HDD units can burn a DVD-R lossless from an original DVD-RAM non HDD Panny. Also next week I will test the ES-10 non HDD Panny LP quality against the Pio 640 LP quality.

New test- I actually played two DVD-RW+ recorded from Liteon and Polaroid HDD Units on the Pio 640 DVD WHILE I was recording a separate program on the 640 HDD. Now that is nice. The 640 did it brilliantly without a hitch. It played my DVD+RW and recorded to HDD at same time. No doubt. No problems- that is a good HDD. No one has tried this. I am the first with this permutation and I deserve a sack of cow manure. However if someone can show me a better DVDR HDD on the market right now ,you better have your ducks lined up- and have your reasons, otherwise you will be pounded. And do not talk DV input. Talk DVD recording, interface, features and remote. Sony has nothing comparatively even close.

Neither HDD units can burn a DVD-R lossless from an original DVD-RAM non HDD Panny.I assume you mean burn a video mode DVD-R right?

Also, keep in mind your test should include a standard video-mode compatible resolution because I know in the 640 there are some non-standard video mode resolutions used at certain bitrates (MN9-MN15) when recording in VR mode that that will not high-speed copy to a video mode DVD. I would test using an SP recording.Also next week I will test the ES-10 non HDD Panny LP quality against the Pio 640 LP quality.I look forward to that one. Although I don't really ever use LP mode, it will be interesting to see if the 640 fares better than the older models. I expect it will, at least for slower movie-type content. Will you test both slow and fast action?

New test- I actually played two DVD-RW+ recorded from Liteon and Polaroid HDD Units on the Pio 640 DVD WHILE I was recording a separate program on the 640 HDD. Now that is nice. The 640 did it brilliantly without a hitch. It played my DVD+RW and recorded to HDD at same time. No doubt. No problems- that is a good HDD. No one has tried this. I am the first with this permutation and I deserve a sack of cow manure. However if someone can show me a better DVDR HDD on the market right now ,you better have your ducks lined up- and have your reasons, otherwise you will be pounded. And do not talk DV input. Talk DVD recording, interface, features and remote. Sony has nothing comparatively even close.


HoustonGuy, I certainly appreciate your enthusiasm, tests, and good info. I have the Pio 640 on my watch list. However, I currently own a Sony HX-900 and I can play a DVD-/+RW disk while recording to hard drive without any problems at all. Is this unusual? (You can keep the cow manure. ;))

I'm certainly very happy with my Sony HX-900 which has superb picture quality, good build quality, and all the features I need for now. That said, you make a pursuasive case for the 640. I'll keep reading.

And now for the absolute opposite end of the spectrum from the Sony. The Polaroid 2001G also allows you to record to the HDD and watch a DVD at the same time.

It played my DVD+RW and recorded to HDD at same time.Any HDD recorder with chase play capability should be able to do this, since that's essentially what chase play is. Chase play is actually more demanding than this because you have to play back from the HDD at the same time as recording to it. My Pioneer 533 and 633 units do both (chase play and DVD playback while HDD recording) just fine.

The Liteon HD-A740GX / HD-A760GX only allows Chase Play when recording to HDD. You can not view another HDD recorded program, watch a DVD nor even access timer recording.

Add in poor editing functionality, a non-egronomic remote, only file-by-file dubbing (one at a time) = return.

Hguy - when you do the test of Panny LP to Pio LP I urge you to please be objective and unbiased. The reason I say that is that I have compared the LP of a 2006 Panny ES-15 that I owned before the 640 to the 640's LP. I found the Panny's LP mode to be slightly better, crisper, sharper. The Pio's is still good, and as you say an improvement from previous Pio's and popssibly better than other brands. Now I am keeping the 640 as I got a good price for it and the Panny eh55 (I wanted a HDD unit) would cost me many $ more. Also I generally really like the 640 and it has been performing very solidly for me. So I really do like the 640 and am keeping it but I am being honest that the LP is not quite as clean as Panny's 2006 LP.

Look forward to your findings.

Oh yeah mine is a May 2006 though I just bought it a month ago or so, but it is well built and fairly quiet considering the HDD and the fan. Remote is kinda lacking as I hate the slide door but I will be programming my Harmony soon enough anyways.

With all due respect to the title of this thread, so far I'd have to say that I prefer my 2005 model 520 overall to the 640, in terms of convenience / ease of use. Yes, the 640 has some features and performance that clearly outclasses the 520, but I just like the day to day routine operation of the 520 better, including editing recordings. Several features on the 520 feel more straightforward to me. I think Pioneer was trying to "simplify" certain things for DVDR neophytes (particularly in Menus and sub-Menus), but if you happened to already be familiar with the basic operation of the device, these "simplifications" just get in your way. To me, the 520 was much easier to learn than several of the more advanced VCRs I've used.

The reported firmware fix for the Titles issue in Timer Recordings (see the 640 Users Report thread, p. 74) is very welcome news.

I have to qualify the above by saying that I've been using the 640 for a small fraction of the time I've used the 520, and some appraisals could change with increased usage and familiarity. Or not.

New test- I actually played two DVD-RW+ recorded from Liteon and Polaroid HDD Units on the Pio 640 DVD WHILE I was recording a separate program on the 640 HDD. Now that is nice. The 640 did it brilliantly without a hitch. It played my DVD+RW and recorded to HDD at same time. No doubt. No problems- that is a good HDD. No one has tried this. I am the first with this permutation and I deserve a sack of cow manure. However if someone can show me a better DVDR HDD on the market right now ,you better have your ducks lined up- and have your reasons, otherwise you will be pounded. And do not talk DV input. Talk DVD recording, interface, features and remote. Sony has nothing comparatively even close.
Why would one test against a Panasonic? I have two Panasonic Plasma displays but the two Panasonic DVD Recorders I have do not compare in picture quality to the Sony and Toshiba. I agree that Sony has nothing on the US market at this time that can compare with a H-D. I found in the past that with my Pioneer 531, the picture was comparable to a Panasonic but no where near a Sony or Toshiba. I truly respect everyones opinions here but, why not just pick up a Toshiba and do a shoot out? Toshiba may loose on remote (fold-down door) but that would be just about all except maybe +DL Discs. PQ and other features go to the Toshiba right now. I have a 50" and a 42" display to compare PQ. I would think they are large enough.
Have you tested a Toshiba RD-XS55 or RD-XS35? Please don't dwell on the Fan staying on the RD-XS35, it really is almost silent. The fan is not loud (it's in my bedroom)... Let's talk PQ and flexability with menus, etc. I owned a Pioneer 531 and it can not even compare to my Sony or my Toshiba for PQ. it could compare to my Panasonic. I have nothing against Pioneer but, I can;t help feeling that people are getting mislead by comparison reports of only some DVD Recorders. Please try a Toshiba and give it an honest shot. They are tryuly impressive machines. I have thrown alot of time, energy and money at the hobby (as I am sure you have) Take a Toshiba for a ride. I was truly impressed.

Why would one test against a Panasonic? I have two PAnasonic Plasma displays but the two DVD Recorders I have do not compare in picture quality to the Sony and Toshiba. I found in the past that with my Pioneer 531, the picture was comparable to a Panasonic but no where near a Sony or Toshiba. I truly expect everyones opinions here but, why not just pick up a Toshiba and do a shoot out?
Have you tested a Toshiba RD-XS55 or RD-XS35? Please don't dwell on the Fan staying on the RD-XS35. The fan is not loud (in my bedroom)... Let's talk PQ and flexability with menus, etc. I owned a Pioneer 531 and it can not even compare to my Sony or my Toshiba for PQ. it could compare to my Panasonic. I have nothing against Pioneer but, I can;t help feeling that people are getting mislead by comparison reports of only some DVD Recorders. Please try a Toshiba and give it an honest shot. They are tryuly impressive machines. I have thrown alot of time, energy and money at the hobby (as I am sure you have) Take a Toshiba for a ride. I was truly impressed.

I don't believe anybody would question the excellent PQ of the Toshiba XS series - if they witnessed it. Many of the prolific posters here have not. As a result many of the posts that have compared one machine to another or others rarely include Toshiba. So it is in fact under represented. I don't think it is intentional.

General comment (not directed to you goots1) -

HG's comparisons are valued and have merit. Checking out different machines and posting that one looks better than another is great. But it is far from definitive and should be treated as such. They are opinions. Everybody's opinion is different - and of course valued.

But I use this post as the anthesis of anecdotal opinion:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7671266&&#post7671266

Grey scale and gama curves were tested. Black levels were tested. AVIA resolution circles and multiburst test patterns were observed. I believe something like this may be more valuable than "this one looks better than this one" and is often not followed by "to me". This stuff get's picked up and is often cited as definitive by other posters.

I don't believe anybody would question the excellent PQ of the Toshiba XS series - if they witnessed it. Many of the prolific posters here have not. As a result many of the posts that have compared one machine to another or others rarely include Toshiba. So it is in fact under represented. I don't think it is intentional.

General comment (not directed to you goots1) -

HG's comparisons are valued and have merit. Checking out different machines and posting that one looks better than another is great. But it is far from definitive and should be treated as such. They are opinions. Everybody's opinion is different - and of course valued.

But I use this post as the anthesis of anecdotal opinion:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7671266&&#post7671266

Grey scale and gama curves were tested. Black levels were tested. AVIA resolution circles and multiburst test patterns were observed. I believe something like this may be more valuable than "this one looks better than this one" and is often not followed by "to me". This stuff get's picked up and is often cited as definitive by other posters.

I could not agree more. I am not trying to "Flame" anyone. Just some friendly discussion. I value HoustonGuys testing also. I was just putting in a "twist". It seems like people that are new to DVD Recorders, come in and read these postings and almost surely think that Pioneer is the best. I was like that also about and year and half ago. Because of the posts here I purchased the Pioneer 531 and was greatly disappointed. Just trying to make it aware that there are many top quality recorders and that "The King" would be in the eye of the beholder. Actually HoustonGuy seems to do some extensive testing and it is very valuable. Wouldn't is be sweet if he picked up a Toshiba and "shot it out"? The machines are all limited in one way or another. the Toshiba (I think) has better PQ but doesn't record DL discs. The Pioneer Does. The Toshiba has TVGUide (which I feel was given a bad name by the implementation on the Pioneer DVRs). The Toshiba also gives you the options of Menu or No Menu. The Pioneer truly was just an average PQ compared to my Sony RDR-HX900. I like alot of these recorders including the Pioneer. Also this is friendly discussion and I continue to learn something by every post. Remember all my posts are intended to be friendly opinions... 'food for though" Houston Guy mentioned that someone must have their "ducks in a row". He sounded quite strong about his claims. I am disputing them in a friendly manner. I think what made me reply to his post was the statment that he made...
HG QUOTE "However if someone can show me a better DVDR HDD on the market right now ,you better have your ducks lined up- and have your reasons, otherwise you will be pounded. And do not talk DV input. Talk DVD recording, interface, features and remote. Sony has nothing comparatively even close."

That is a lead-in to what may become a stimulating discussion.

goots1 - I'm with you. But it is impossible. When it comes to certain brands you simply need to tow the line. And very little of what you say will be appreciated when it concerns a different brand. It is a waste of time. But at the same time it's no big deal. Who cares.

I'm not sure if you've noticed but Toshiba posters tend to stick to the Toshiba threads and rarely wander out. If they do they get squished like little bugs.

:eek:

I could not agree more. I am not trying to "Flame" anyone. Just some friendly discussion. I value HoustonGuys testing also. I was just putting in a "twist". It seems like people that are new to DVD Recorders, come in and read these postings and almost surely think that Pioneer is the best. I was like that also about and year and half ago. Because of the posts here I purchased the Pioneer 531 and was greatly disappointed. Just trying to make it aware that there are many top quality recorders and that "The King" would be in the eye of the beholder. Actually HoustonGuy seems to do some extensive testing and it is very valuable. Wouldn't is be sweet if he picked up a Toshiba and "shot it out"? The machines are all limited in one way or another. the Toshiba (I think) has better PQ but doesn't record DL discs. The Pioneer Does. The Toshiba has TVGUide (which I feel was given a bad name by the implementation on the Pioneer DVRs). The Toshiba also gives you the options of Menu or No Menu. The Pioneer truly was just an average PQ compared to my Sony RDR-HX900. I like alot of these recorders including the Pioneer. Also this is friendly discussion and I continue to learn something by every post. Remember all my posts are intended to be friendly opinions... 'food for though" Houston Guy mentioned that someone must have their "ducks in a row". He sounded quite strong about his claims. I am disputing them in a friendly manner. I think what made me reply to his post was the statment that he made...
HG QUOTE "However if someone can show me a better DVDR HDD on the market right now ,you better have your ducks lined up- and have your reasons, otherwise you will be pounded. And do not talk DV input. Talk DVD recording, interface, features and remote. Sony has nothing comparatively even close."

That is a lead-in to what may become a stimulating discussion.


goots1..
I currently own a Pioneer 531 and newer 640 as well as three older Philips dvd recorders. Burned over 948+ recordings on the wonderful 531 and its still going strong. I have owned many others (Polaroid g2001, Ilo, Lite-On, non-hdd pioneer including a Sony GX300 and a Toshiba rdx35 hdd model.

I record a lot of movies off cable and I am always looking for a better DVD recorder for my personal needs. The Pioneers are ONLY dvd recorders (I've seen) that are easily controlled by my TWC SA3250HD settop box and EPG's record to VCR function and attached IR blaster. I simply click record while scrolling through the TV programming guide and the EPG does the rest including filling the program name into the recordings label. Only thing is I have to leave the DVD recorder on and preselect a recording mode. I usually use MN (FR) mode for best fit on a DVD5 DVD.

Toshiba HDD recorder models have a LOT of features including the best of breed DVD menu creation options. No other manuf. is even close. The Toshiba had very good picture quality as well. Now for the bad news...
(1) The RDX35 model I tested had HDD fragmentation problems and I actually lost recorded data after two days of minor editing and use. Has never happened on my Pioneers.
(2) I experienced false positive copy protection problems on MOST channels from my cable box ie if it would record at all, you couldn't copy the recording to DVD or you had to record to DVD-RAM only. WTF.. :eek: My cable box diagnostics say program is flagged as copy freely and in a few cases copy once. Again have not had this problem with my other recorders.
(3) As expected, my TWC cable box was unable to control recording on the Toshiba. Workaround is to program recording on both cable box AND DVD recorder.
(4) Compared to the Pioneer 640 the Toshiba is limited in the DVDS media supported and I found it to be picky about ones it liked to burn. PS the Piooneer 531 that I have is picky about real-time (non-high speed dub) media as well.
I really wanted this Toshiba to work for me, as I want the menu creation options without having re-edit on the PC.

I continue to look for a better DVD recorder, but the MPAA/RIAA forces don't want us to have them in the USA. Look up the Philips 9000 model sold in Europe with Dolby 5.1 recording capability. Look at all the "new" HDD models announced at the 2007 CES show..:rolleyes:

Here it is> http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/d/dvdr9000h_75/dvdr9000h_75_pss_aen.pdf

Timeshift Now if you can...

goots1..
I currently own a Pioneer 531 and newer 640 as well as three older Philips dvd recorders. Burned over 948+ recordings on the wonderful 531 and its still going strong. I have owned many others (Polaroid g2001, Ilo, Lite-On, non-hdd pioneer including a Sony GX300 and a Toshiba rdx35 hdd model.

I record a lot of movies off cable and I am always looking for a better DVD recorder for my personal needs. The Pioneers are ONLY dvd recorders (I've seen) that are easily controlled by my TWC SA3250HD settop box and EPG's record to VCR function and attached IR blaster. I simply click record while scrolling through the TV programming guide and the EPG does the rest including filling the program name into the recordings label. Only thing is I have to leave the DVD recorder on and preselect a recording mode. I usually use MN (FR) mode for best fit on a DVD5 DVD.

Toshiba HDD recorder models have a LOT of features including the best of breed DVD menu creation options. No other manuf. is even close. The Toshiba had very good picture quality as well. Now for the bad news...
(1) The RDX35 model I tested had HDD fragmentation problems and I actually lost recorded data after two days of minor editing and use. Has never happened on my Pioneers.
(2) I experienced false positive copy protection problems on MOST channels from my cable box ie if it would record at all, you couldn't copy the recording to DVD or you had to record to DVD-RAM only. WTF.. :eek: My cable box diagnostics say program is flagged as copy freely and in a few cases copy once. Again have not had this problem with my other recorders.
(3) As expected, my TWC cable box was unable to control recording on the Toshiba. Workaround is to program recording on both cable box AND DVD recorder.
(4) Compared to the Pioneer 640 the Toshiba is limited in the DVDS media supported and I found it to be picky about ones it liked to burn. PS the Piooneer 531 that I have is picky about real-time (non-high speed dub) media as well.
I really wanted this Toshiba to work for me, as I want the menu creation options without having re-edit on the PC.

I continue to look for a better DVD recorder, but the MPAA/RIAA forces don't want us to have them in the USA. Look up the Philips 9000 model sold in Europe with Dolby 5.1 recording capability. Look at all the "new" HDD models announced at the 2007 CES show..:rolleyes:

Here it is> http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/d/dvdr9000h_75/dvdr9000h_75_pss_aen.pdf

Timeshift Now if you can...

Why not just use the TVGUIDE function on the RD-XS35 works flawlessly. One touch choose program recording.

I also never experienced either the fragmented Hard Disk or the False Copy Protection errors.

Maybe you had a bad unit. I do agree that there is no perfect DVD recorder.
The importanat thing is that we are happy with what we are using. We are using each unit for our own reasons. If I had the problems you had with the Toshiba, I wouldn;t use them either. I had the problems with the Pioneer, that is why I don;t use it. To each their own. And we each have valid points.
I think we will see less and less H-D Recorders in the US due to the fact that the Cable Companies lobby for us to have to use their rented DVRs. it really stinks. We in the US seem to always pay the price.

I could not agree with you more about the MPAA not wanting us to have a better recorder, just seems like we (THE USA Consumer) always has to pay the price.
I will check out his Philips. Thanks!

Guys - I am going to try to pick up a Toshiba RD-XS55 or RD-XS35 for video record quality testing et al- You make good points. Any ideas of best place to get one?

can someone PLEASE tell me with the pioneer 640H, if you can make chapter thumbnails on the hard drive and still have them there when you copy it to a dvd? i want my pictures! LOL....thanks for any help anyone can give me!

Guys - I am going to try to pick up a Toshiba RD-XS55 or RD-XS35 for video record quality testing et al- You make good points. Any ideas of best place to get one?
THe 35 Best buy
THe 55 B&H Photo.

can someone PLEASE tell me with the pioneer 640H, if you can make chapter thumbnails on the hard drive and still have them there when you copy it to a dvd? i want my pictures! LOL....thanks for any help anyone can give me!
No Chpater thumbs w/the 640. AFAIK, only Toshiibas can do that.

thanks so much, guess i bought the wrong one...back to the store it will go! thanks again...