I've pretty much nailed my sonosub design. Can you experts please greenlight the attached design before I start the production? I'm hopefully going to make two of these babies and power them with a EP2500 (or maybe two bridged EP2500s?).

Top and bottom is 3x22 m MDF.
Net volume: 260-265 liters
Port length: 75 cm

Thanks a lot :-)

Looks good to me. You'll only need one EP2500 for two of these subs, btw.

nice, classic LLT design. I've got the same setup - 2 20" cylinders each with 265L, RL-p15, tune to ~16hz. 1 EP2500 is definitely enough to drive these things though, no need for two.

Mine was the same design that others have used, with minor variations:
2 layers of mdf, driver not recessed (who's gonna see it down there anyway?)
legs are 5" 2x4 pieces with rounded edges, I like the beefier look
12" speaker grill for port cover
black spray on bedliner instead of the gloss

good luck!

Looks good.
I wouldnt bother recessing the driver in this situation either...for a front firing sub its just a no brainer IMO.

"Recessing" the driver for something like a sonosub is extremely simple though. All he'd have to do is cut the hole out on the end cap piece a bit bigger. I think it makes sense because otherwise, you'd want to make the legs a bit taller. I dunno about you, but I kind of like having my driver "built in" a bit.

Looks good to me. You'll only need one EP2500 for two of these subs, btw.

Your sonosub thread was my inspiration so I guess it's only natural that you like it :)

If there's ANYTHING you would have done different, however, now is the time to tell me! And I'll keep "only one EP2500" in mind...

I would have made the top endcap assembly thicker. I only used two layers of 3/4" MDF, but 3 should be the minimum. I'd also line the bottom side of the top endcap assembly with whatever you line the walls with.

Other than that, I don't think so. I can't find a ruler right now, but I'll answer your PM after I get back from class.

I would have made the top endcap assembly thicker. I only used two layers of 3/4" MDF, but 3 should be the minimum. I'd also line the bottom side of the top endcap assembly with whatever you line the walls with.

OK, I was going to use 3 layers of 22 mm MDF so I guess it will do. One of the reasons I go so thick is to have more are to fasten the end caps better to the tube, which leads me to another thing that I've forgotten to ask people about: What kind of glue did you use to attach the caps to the tube?

Other than that, I don't think so. I can't find a ruler right now, but I'll answer your PM after I get back from class.

Just to make things absolutely clear for all you dirty minded people out there: I was asking him about the thickness of the TUBE WALLS in the PM... ;)

If you cut your endcaps the right size, you really don't need anything to attach them to the tube with. You don't want to use wood glue for sure. Personally, I ran a bead of liquid nails along the interior seam on the top and bottom cap of my sonosub. The fit was tight enough that it really wasn't necessary, but I felt better about doing it :) Good luck on your project!

OK, I was going to use 3 layers of 22 mm MDF so I guess it will do. One of the reasons I go so thick is to have more are to fasten the end caps better to the tube, which leads me to another thing that I've forgotten to ask people about: What kind of glue did you use to attach the caps to the tube?

If you have a super snug fit, probably nothing. If you want a little more security, you can go with Silicone caulking, just to make sure you have it air tight.

Liquid Nails is going to be your next step up, a little more permanent, has a stronger "gap filling" ability.

Epoxy is going to be the ultimate in permanent and gap filling. It's harder to work with, but there are lots of new applicators now I haven't even tried.

Kevin

I used liquid nails as well.

If you cut your endcaps the right size, you really don't need anything to attach them to the tube with.
If you have a super snug fit, probably nothing. If you want a little more security, you can go with Silicone caulking, just to make sure you have it air tight.

Yes, yes, I can hear you guys :)

But it must involve a little bit of luck to get the end caps that tight, doesn't it? I myself cannot imagine how you could actually measure that precise. Well, a few test runs with the router would help, I guess...

Anyway, I would like to seal the end caps with something, not only to make them sit in place, but also to make it airtight (also after a few years).

Thanks for the tips! I've ordered the tubes today and will probably talk a little to the manufacturer about which glues they would recommend.

Just a sidetrack: The guy at the factory said that they had two types of tubes: Waxed and non-waxed. He strongly recommended the non waxed type for speaker building because of "resonances". I cannot imagine what kind of resonaces this might be. Then again, I can't be absolutely sure of what he really said because this information came via a guy at the store (a norwegian version of Home Depot or something). The guy at the store actually said that the waxed versions was no good because of renaissance problems. Obviously not a speaker expert or a historian... :)

But it must involve a little bit of luck to get the end caps that tight, doesn't it? I myself cannot imagine how you could actually measure that precise. Well, a few test runs with the router would help, I guess...

The safest thing to do is be on the safe side and make your cuts ever so slightly larger than they should be, and sand them down to fit, or depending on how precise/imprecise your cuts are, they could turn out perfect.




The waxed version sounds like the Rain Guard Sonotube we have over here. Thats the first I've ever heard of it being worse than "non-waxed" for sub building.

Yes, yes, I can hear you guys :)

But it must involve a little bit of luck to get the end caps that tight, doesn't it? I myself cannot imagine how you could actually measure that precise. Well, a few test runs with the router would help, I guess...

If you haven't cut circles with a router (go with a plunge model) on a circle jig, you're going to like it. You can use a model that isn't a plunge, but if you're buying one, you're first router should be a plunge.

Like Will said, go with a setting that is too large, and sneak up on it in (hopefully) small increments until you get to the point where you're about 2mm too big. Put a chamfer or round-over on the edge that goes into the tube first.

Once I had all my caps glued and cut (yes I glued my cap layers together while square, then cut circles), I thined down some polyurethane with mineral spirits and sealed the MDF. That keeps the edges perfect, even after lots of insertions/removals (assuming you're going with a dry fit).

I would guess the waxed tubes are better for this because the cardboard is then sealed on the inside. I'm new to speaker building, but generally in woodworking, when you have one side that is sealed, you want to go ahead and seal the other as well. Since we're dealing with mostly enclosed volumes here, this isn't so important though.

The 3M spray adhesive stuck great to the wax surface when I put the batting in. My ports are also wax coated cardboard tube and enamel paint just sprayed down the tube on a warm day worked perfect also.

The 3M spray adhesive stuck great to the wax surface when I put the batting in. My ports are also wax coated cardboard tube and enamel paint just sprayed down the tube on a warm day worked perfect also.

Aye. I used some 3M Super 77 and it stuck very well to my Rain Guard was coated Sonotube.

ALso, even if the end caps' insides don't fit exact, the top cap will seal the unit. Furthermore there is no way for the caps to pop out. The bottom cap has the weight of the sub itself holding it in, and the top cap has gravity holding it down.

ALso, even if the end caps' insides don't fit exact, the top cap will seal the unit. Furthermore there is no way for the caps to pop out. The bottom cap has the weight of the sub itself holding it in, and the top cap has gravity holding it down.

oh, wait, wait. Let's define "don't fit exactly". If those plugs are sloppy and only sealed by gravity, you just lost your tuning, not to mention it's going to rattle. Probably won't jump off, but that's gotta sound like crap.

If the plugs are nice and round, but not super-snug, use Liquid Nails. If you cut the plugs freehand with a Jigsaw, then you need to go epoxy and get those plugs air tight, so that the only air movement is what you get through the port. Nothing should be lose.

These thing are so big , they're turning into moblie IB's !

If those plugs are sloppy and only sealed by gravity, you just lost your tuning,

How would you lose tuning if the end cap seals everything??? Its not like air is escaping anywhere but the port...the end cap is LARGER than the diameter of the tube, so it creates a perfect seal. The inner pieces are there to hold the port tube in place and something to screw the driver to.

I just think building a sonosub the relies on gravity to hold it together is a bad idea. I don't believe you are going to have an end cap that "seals everything" just sitting there.

It's not hard to seal those plugs. I know gravity is free, but enough LN to do this right is like $6 where I live.

I know this is a bit old but I wrapped mine in felt and left about 2" on both ends then tucked the felt inside the tube. I had to do 1/4 round over on both my end caps so they would go in. Worked great and if I ever need to get something out of the tube ... like a G.I. Joe :D it will be pretty easy.

I just think building a sonosub the relies on gravity to hold it together is a bad idea. I don't believe you are going to have an end cap that "seals everything" just sitting there.
I do :p Very tight tolerances.

I'm not a speaker expert but there is basic engineering issues with this.

Er, it's not "gravity" it what's called an interference fit. You could fiddle with measuring the coefficient of friction and do some analysis on the forces inside the pressure vessel to see if it would deform in the elastic range but given peoples experience here there is evidence of that not occuring. Any further methods of sealing is just over engineering. There is always a better way to do it, but an engineering goal is fit for purpose.

nice, classic LLT design. I've got the same setup - 2 20" cylinders each with 265L, RL-p15, tune to ~16hz. 1 EP2500 is definitely enough to drive these things though, no need for two.

Mine was the same design that others have used, with minor variations:
2 layers of mdf, driver not recessed (who's gonna see it down there anyway?)
legs are 5" 2x4 pieces with rounded edges, I like the beefier look
12" speaker grill for port cover
black spray on bedliner instead of the gloss

good luck!
you need to post some pics fool!! :p :)

Er, it's not "gravity" it what's called an interference fit.
Exactly! because of a little issue in figuring out the sock, one of my caps was rather loose compared to the interference fit and thus became a gravity fit :rolleyes: Well! put it to you this way> Think of a huge 30 pound corn kernel popping off when some heavy bass comes along. :D

you need to post some pics fool!! :p :)

I'm sorry, was this meant for me or for Stitz? :)

I'm sorry, was this meant for me or for Stitz? :)
you! :)

the more pics, the merrier.......we all love following a fellow DIYer when he/she is going thru their project! ;)

you! :)

the more pics, the merrier.......we all love following a fellow DIYer when he/she is going thru their project! ;)

OK. Sure, here: Runes Sonosub Project (http://winsevik.homeip.net/htf/2007/e4/e4.htm) (enjoy the norwegian texts :-)

OK, I'll post a few pics with English texts when the kids are in bed :p

I'll keep you updated, but I must warn you - it will be a slow progress as I have 3 small kids crawling all over as well as a house renovation project...

AND I cannot get TC Sounds to mail me back. I've ordered a couple of TC-2000 SVC 15s, but they won't reply to my emails. So - I have no idea when/if I get the drivers... :(

AND I cannot get TC Sounds to mail me back. I've ordered a couple of TC-2000 SVC 15s, but they won't reply to my emails. So - I have no idea when/if I get the drivers...
Well that's a bummer.

Well that's a bummer.

Yeah. I guess it has something to do with me living in Norway or something. The strange thing is that the PayPal transaction went through without any problems, Norway or no Norway... :rolleyes:

Rune....have you called them? Deon and team are swamped from what I hear, but they should be able to tell you what the status is...they are pretty upfront about this kinda stuff. Sorry to hear though...:o

The strange thing is that the PayPal transaction went through without any problems, Norway or no Norway...
I'm sure it's a glitch. You know how it is sometimes when your mail piles up and it gets so bad that you don't even want to look at it :o $$ is $$ though.

Hey Run, do you ever sit down and do dinner with Brother Ilkka? He lives over there somewhere right :D

http://www.tcsounds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=454

The 15” TC-2000's will all ship today - November, 10th 2006

I'm sure it's a glitch. You know how it is sometimes when your mail piles up and it gets so bad that you don't even want to look at it :o $$ is $$ though.

Hey Run, do you ever sit down and do dinner with Brother Ilkka? He lives over there somewhere right :D

Sure, he's practically my neighbor... :rolleyes:

Rune....have you called them? Deon and team are swamped from what I hear, but they should be able to tell you what the status is...they are pretty upfront about this kinda stuff. Sorry to hear though...:o

Nah... my written English isn't too bad, I guess, but I'm not very good on the phone, I'm afraid. If I haven't heard anything from them tomorrow, however, I'll phone them :eek:

Sure, he's practically my neighbor...
Well you never know ;)

Nah... my written English isn't too bad, I guess, but I'm not very good on the phone, I'm afraid. If I haven't heard anything from them tomorrow, however, I'll phone them :eek:

Just recieved my FedEX tracking # from Heather. I'm sure yours will be coming soon too.

:rolleyes:
After I posted I saw the :rolleyes: and figured it out pronto so I deleted my post. :) Now why did you go post that since I got rid of it 5 minutes ago? :o :D

(Admittedly neither the country nor the sea are particularly large, but still...).
I clearly need to get a map up on wall for these situations. :)

After I posted I saw the :rolleyes: and figured it out pronto so I deleted my post. :) Now why did you go post that since I got rid of it 5 minutes ago? :o :D

I deleted mine to so now there's no trace of the misunderstanding...

And now I'm off to bed. I'll have to be at work in about 7 hours...

Some new pictures at http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4.htm for those who like Norwegian...

Just recieved my FedEX tracking # from Heather. I'm sure yours will be coming soon too.

Me to!!!!! YESSSS!!!!! I have to start doing some serious woodworking...

Anyway, here's some pictures from what I've got so far (sorry about the (too) large size, but this is the size I use on my web site (http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4.htm)):

These are the tubes that I've bought. They are extremely smooth (compared to the standard Sonotubes). I paid about $100 for the couple:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_00a.jpg

They come in lengths of 150 cm and have an inner diameter of 50 cm, an almost perfect size for a 260 liter enclosure. And the ends are very nicely (pre)cut:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_00b.jpg

I quickly cut 4 plates of MDF with a diameter 1 cm larger than the final diameter. I'll fine cut them later with the router to get them perfectly circular:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_03.jpg

A buddy of mine got hold of two PVC pipes with an inner diameter of 15 cm. The walls of the PVC pipes are 5 mm thick so I guess they are thick enough...:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_04.jpg

Using the "paper trick" described at Smoothing rings and donuts (http://www.users.bigpond.com/bcolliso/ring.htm), I managed to get the end of the PVC pipes quite smooth:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_07.jpg

Using my extremely simple router circle jig, I started cutting the smoothing rings for the lover end of the PVC pipes:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_09.jpg

And here are the plates, with the outer cut ready. I'm only making them in 13 mm particle board, almost as an experiment. The reason is that I haven't got my hands on a rounding router bit with a radius larger than 9.5 mm yet, so there really is no point using a thicker material...:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_12.jpg

looking good Rune!! keep'm coming! :)

on a side note, it's funny to see someone else use the metric system when describing measurements....:p....I grew up with the metric system, and it took a loooooong time (4 years undergrad, 2 year masters, 18months MBA) to get used to the english system....That, and the fact that Homedepot has everything in english system pretty much! :o

good job man....lets see the twins finish soon!;)

looking good Rune!! keep'm coming! :)

on a side note, it's funny to see someone else use the metric system when describing measurements....:p....I grew up with the metric system, and it took a loooooong time (4 years undergrad, 2 year masters, 18months MBA) to get used to the english system....That, and the fact that Homedepot has everything in english system pretty much! :o

Yeah? Were are you from originally, then?

I was considering translating the measurements into inches and feet, but the Americans need get used to a sensible system, because they will get there sooner or later anyway :D

I was considering translating the measurements into inches and feet, but the Americans need get used to a sensible system, because they will get there sooner or later anyway

Its ok, I actually prefer the metric system even though I grew up with the english one.

Yeah? Were are you from originally, then?

I was considering translating the measurements into inches and feet, but the Americans need get used to a sensible system, because they will get there sooner or later anyway :D
yes...I completely agree! The metric system is not only the one used in the entire world, but it makes the most sense....decimal based FTW! :) But I'm used to it now....I understand 95deg F much better than 40C :p

Its ok, I actually prefer the metric system even though I grew up with the english one.

I can understand that ;) And I see that it is used more and more in The States, so I figured you guys would understand it...

yes...I completely agree! The metric system is not only the one used in the entire world, but it makes the most sense....decimal based FTW! :) But I'm used to it now....I understand 95deg F much better than 40C :p

I live in Norway - I don't understand neither 95F nor 40C... :D
(I've been to Florida a couple of times though. A somewhat different climate I must admit)

I live in Norway - I don't understand neither 95F nor 40C... :D
(I've been to Florida a couple of times though. A somewhat different climate I must admit)
yes indeed...VERY different :D ....but I'm used to it. We suffer through tough heat and humidity between march-oct, but nov-feb is spring like, while everyone else is freezing their butts!

But honestly, I could NEVER live in northern or central europe :( ...I can't handle the cold! I dont know how you guys do it! I spent 4 weeks in Austria for work during february, and Believe me you, it was 28 days too many!!! I got stuck in a snow storm outside Salzburg and I swear I thought i was gonna literally freeze to death. :eek:


Plus, you guys have limited timeframes to do DIY projects with that kinda weather!!! hehehe. I would go nuts!!

So have you already purchased the amplifier? Still going with the EP2500?

But honestly, I could NEVER live in northern or central europe :( ...I can't handle the cold! I dont know how you guys do it! I spent 4 weeks in Austria for work during february, and Believe me you, it was 28 days too many!!! I got stuck in a snow storm outside Salzburg and I swear I thought i was gonna literally freeze to death. :eek:

Hehe - it's a little bit difficult to get people to fight against global warming up here.

Plus, you guys have limited timeframes to do DIY projects with that kinda weather!!! hehehe. I would go nuts!!

Well, we have this invention called house that is really practical when the weather is bad. You should try it ;) But I see your point. Currently I'm working in my soon ( :rolleyes: ) to become home theater. More than enough space. But when the theater is finished, I'll be forced out of the house and into the garage.

Believe me, with three kids age 2 to 5, my DIY time is not limited by bad weather!!!

So have you already purchased the amplifier? Still going with the EP2500?

Not yet. If you would recommend anything else, I'm still open for suggestions.

EP2500 is excellent....mod the fan, and you are set! Pair of Buttkickers is another excellent choice for your setup. heck, a QSC1450 or similar would do the trick as well, as would the Crown Xti, but you are creeping up the price ladder, and frankly, you wont need that much power to drive these puppies.

I personally will go with an EP2500 once ready.

EP2500 is excellent....mod the fan, and you are set!

"mod the fan" - now THAT are 3 interesting words!!! Do you have any information about how to silence a EP2500? I was thinking about placing it in an entirely different room, but if I could get it to be quiet...

"mod the fan" - now THAT are 3 interesting words!!! Do you have any information about how to silence a EP2500? I was thinking about placing it in an entirely different room, but if I could get it to be quiet...
http://www.cwitt.com/epfanmodification/index.html

;)

http://www.cwitt.com/epfanmodification/index.html

;)

Thanks my man! Any idea how much quieter the EP becomes after this mod?

Thanks my man! Any idea how much quieter the EP becomes after this mod?
I barely hear it at Chuck's house.... not loud at all.

Really cool, but I had to break out the calculator for the conversions!

So the tubes are 150cm ~ 5ft tall

50cm ~20in wide

PVC for vent is 15cm ~ 6in wide



BTW Sherv, what part of Miami are you at, I'm south of FIU in Olympia Heights.

BTW Sherv, what part of Miami are you at, I'm south of FIU in Olympia Heights.
I'm actually in Broward now, in plantation! :o

I'm actually in Broward now, in plantation! :o

TRAITOR!





And RuneW: I cannot wait until you finish these two monsters!

because they will get there sooner or later anyway
Lets see, if I recall correctly, we were told growing up in school that we were only about five years away from switching over to the metric system...looking back, that was close to forty years ago. Undoubtedly it's happening, but at a much slower pace than anticipated.

Lets see, if I recall correctly, we were told growing up in school that we were only about five years away from switching over to the metric system...looking back, that was close to forty years ago. Undoubtedly it's happening, but at a much slower pace than anticipated.

I don't live in the USA, but still I see some changes taking place. I've been subscribing to Scientific American for the last 5 years and in the last years they have been switching from:

"xxx miles (yyy kilometers)"

to

"yyy kilometers (xxx miles )"

Small signs that something is indeed happening, but by all means I certainly understand that this has to be a long process...

More on topic: My FedEx tracking tells me that my TC-2000s are in Norway :D :D :D

Sweeeeeeeeet. You're close now...so close.

Sweeeeeeeeet. You're close now...so close.

I called FedEx and they said that they'll arrive TODAY! Between 1 and 3 PM. Right now it is 1:01 PM and I can't do a damn thing at work... :D

A little bit more about the sono itself.

I've been hunting high and low for a large rounding bit for my 8mm (1/4") router for a while (for rounding the port hole on the top endcap). The largest bit available is r16mm, and that is a little bit small, isn't it? Anyway the price for such a bit is about $130 here in Norway so I decided to call a local "carpenter firm" (don't know the exact term).

"No problem" they said. They had all kinds of router bits and would do the job "on the fly" for about 30 bucks... (and a much better job than I would have managed, no doubt). The decision was easy.


Anyway, I'm thinking about using 30mm thick pine as the top layer of the top endcap and use a r30mm bit for rounding.

Is that a large enough flare?

Anyway, I'm thinking about using 30mm thick pine as the top layer of the top endcap and use a r30mm bit for rounding.

Is that a large enough flare?


Aye, definitely enough.

Aye, definitely enough.

Ok. I was only worrying a little because somebody said a 15cm port was on the border of being too small, so I thought it was best not to use smallish flares as well. But what do I know... :)

Really, the way these subs are, in normal usage the port won't be putting out much air at all. The only time it might really start pushing air is during test tones at low frequencies or a good LFE scene in a movie, but even then, the speed wouldn't be enough to cause chuffing...not to mention all of the noise from your speakers would easily drown out any noise.

Thats my take on it anyway.

Really, the way these subs are, in normal usage the port won't be putting out much air at all. The only time it might really start pushing air is during test tones at low frequencies or a good LFE scene in a movie, but even then, the speed wouldn't be enough to cause chuffing...not to mention all of the noise from your speakers would easily drown out any noise.

Thats my take on it anyway.
100% agreed! :)

100% agreed! :)

Ok, guys. I just stopped worrying now :)

Ok, guys. I just stopped worrying now :)

So you have your drivers now, right?! :D

So you have your drivers now, right?! :D

Oh man, do I! Here's some pics.

I was a little bit worried when I saw the outside of the box. Obviously quite a ride over the pond (but it turned out the driver was ok).
http://winsevik.homeip.net/htf/2007/e4/e4_13.jpg

How about that! TC Sounds threw in a T-shirt for good measure :D :D :D
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_14.jpg

The included screws are very nice indeed.
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_15.jpg

Some of the screws had escaped their plastic bag and lay scattered here and there. Well mostly there, and you know where there is... ;)
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_16.jpg

And here it is, in all it's glory:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_18.jpg

Now that I have the drivers - the pressure is suddenly on ME.

I'll start the burn-in of them soon. And order that EP2500...

VERY NICE!!!! gaddam! :)

man you guys with all the goodies...I wish I was there :p

VERY NICE!!!! gaddam! :)

man you guys with all the goodies...I wish I was there :p

Waddya mean "all the goodies"? You have the nice climate - I have the drivers... ;)

I was a little bit worried when I saw the outside of the box. Obviously quite a ride over the pond (but it turned out the driver was ok).

They pack the drivers pretty well, dont they?

How about that! TC Sounds threw in a T-shirt for good measure

Aww, I want one.

The included screws are very nice indeed.

I tried telling people that they didn't need no stinkin' mounting kit.

They look great though. Hurry up and finish!

Looking Great! I love the look of the TC. I noticed the screws stuck to the magnet. I have said to myself more than once..OK where in the ^&$% did those screws go?.. they were just there on the floor next to the driver. :D

How much did it cost to ship those heavy boxes to Norway? :eek:

How much did it cost to ship those heavy boxes to Norway? :eek:

Well, that's going to be an interesting one... Earlier in this thread I mentioned my fruitless attempts to contact TC Sounds. The main reason I desperately tried to contact them was because I was worried about the shipping costs. You see, when I ordered the drivers I was in a bit of hurry (because of the sale) so I just, you know, put the items in the basket and basically clicked "order".

The strange thing was that I was never asked for the shipping address. My guess is that this was taken from my PayPal account. Anyway, the shipping cost was printed as $60. From experience I knew that this was unikely the real shipping cost to Norway, so I wrote at least 3 mails to TC Sounds, because I wanted this sorted out. I never got any reply except for a standard "we have confirmed your order" type of mail.

And now, after the FedEx has actually delivered the items I get this letter from Heather at TC Sounds:

"Also I will be sending you an invoice for the balance of the shipping charges when we get the bill. I would appreciate it if you could get the money to us right away since I did not have you pay for it up front. Thanks I will let you know an amount when I find out".

So basically they could (attempt to) charge me for another $300 or whatever it costs to send 80 pound by air mail. This was exactly the thing I'd hoped to avoid with my 3 mails to TC Sounds. My plan was to send them by sea instead.

Does anybody have any idea how I should handle this?

The first thing I would do is share with them just what you shared with us and then see what they have to say? It might not be a problem considering all the mails you sent their way???

The first thing I would do is share with them just what you shared with us and then see what they have to say? It might not be a problem considering all the mails you sent their way???

It's probably going to be a problem if they continue to ignore my mails the way they did... :mad:

I'll try mailing them again of course. I hope it's going to work out somehow.

Hell, if they avoided your 3 mails, avoid any of their further attempts at contact. It's not so fun when the shoe is on the other foot is it?

Hell, if they avoided your 3 mails, avoid any of their further attempts at contact. It's not so fun when the shoe is on the other foot is it?

It's tempting, I'll admit that, but I think I'll try to be polite, even if they weren't. I'll send them a copy of the famous 3 mails and see if they want to explain themselves.

Maybe we can come to an agreement - divide the extra shipping cost 50/50 between us or something.

After all - it was really nice to get the babies that fast...

After all - it was really nice to get the babies that fast...

I was wondering how you got them so fast too. You got yours before i got mine and it looks like they were shipped as the same. I got a shirt too, that was sweet.

I... I think I'll try to be polite, even if they weren't. ...
Maybe we can come to an agreement - divide the extra shipping cost 50/50 between us or something.

that's the right thing and the mature thing to do Rune...I would do the same. Try to contact them and resolve the matter amicably; I know for a fact that Deon and team will work with you.

although, I wouldn't expect you to pay a hefty overcharge for the shipping...it wasn't your miscue, so they should work with you to come to a middle ground at worst.

ps- did you start the EP mods yet?! :D

that's the right thing and the mature thing to do Rune...I would do the same. Try to contact them and resolve the matter amicably; I know for a fact that Deon and team will work with you.

although, I wouldn't expect you to pay a hefty overcharge for the shipping...it wasn't your miscue, so they should work with you to come to a middle ground at worst.

ps- did you start the EP mods yet?! :D

Hehehe - no, I haven't got the EP yet. Haven't even ordered it yet, as a matter of fact. But I will do - soon. I was so perplexed by the sudden arrival of the TCs so I haven't done much of anything the last two days (besides cuddling with the "babies" that is...).

Yes, I know I'm sick, thank you very much!

Really, the way these subs are, in normal usage the port won't be putting out much air at all. The only time it might really start pushing air is during test tones at low frequencies or a good LFE scene in a movie, but even then, the speed wouldn't be enough to cause chuffing...not to mention all of the noise from your speakers would easily drown out any noise.

Thats my take on it anyway.

I'm about to do the inner port flares. Is there, in your opinion, a minimum radius for the flares? The reason I ask is that I only have a roundover bit with r= 10mm. I started making some Smoothing rings (http://www.users.bigpond.com/bcolliso/ring.htm), but aborted the project when I realized that I only had this small roundover bit. Now I'm wondering if I should go on with the small bit, try to find a larger one (larger than r13mm are rare) or go for another solution. I could buy an Aeroport 6, but it seems like a waste of money just for the flare...

That's what, about 3/8"? I'd still do it. Using Collo's flare program, even a small flare makes a performance difference.

I could buy an Aeroport 6, but it seems like a waste of money just for the flare...The benefit to extreme flares like those from AeroPort is they allow one to use a smaller diameter flare and get the benefit of the air flow of a larger port.

That's what, about 3/8"? I'd still do it. Using Collo's flare program, even a small flare makes a performance difference.

Yes 3/8" is about it. No, 3/8" is exactly it when I think of it, because the bit is more like 9.5 mm than 10 mm.

I can also borrow a 12.7 mm (1/2") bit so I guess I can go on with the program then :)

BTW. Does anybody know how to rename the entire thread? Now that I have a couple of TC-2000s it's seems wrong to call the thread "Sonosub + RL-p15 - Design confirmation"...

BTW. Does anybody know how to rename the entire thread? Now that I have a couple of TC-2000s it's seems wrong to call the thread "Sonosub + RL-p15 - Design confirmation"...
leave it alone...it's good.

Just some boring pics...

The TC-2000 ready for break-in. I normally use a DiscMan loaded with a sub break-in CD (directly connected to an amp), but I just couldn't find the DiscMan, so the drivers are just sitting there for now...
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_20.jpg

Did some more work on the smoothing donuts. Using the router to cut the inner circle, I found it easier to just keep the router still and move the piece with the thumb instead:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_21.jpg

And here are the 4 donut pieces:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_23.jpg

Here's one of the rings after about 3/4 of the rounding process (the tape keeps it in place while routing):
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_25.jpg

The upper and lower rings glued together. Now I'll have to wait a while for the next step of routing:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_27.jpg

I found it easier to just keep the router still and move the piece with the thumb instead:
I agree.
Just some boring pics...
No way man, your pics are very nice. Us DIY/subwoofer addicts can never get enough you know. :cool:
Here's one of the rings after about 3/4 of the rounding process (the tape keeps it in place while routing):
Are those the flares that your working on there..it appears to be? Here is a pic of the last three I built.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/stevenn/100_2322.jpg

There must be a big tolerance for what stores can classify as MDF, as that looks like particle board Rune :confused:

as that looks like particle board Rune
That caught my eye also Steve. His sono is darn nice though! stout

Yo RUne.....what kinda wood is that? looks awefully close to particle board :confused:

Yo RUne.....what kinda wood is that? looks awefully close to particle board :confused:

That is 100% correct. Is particle board a bad idea for this paricular use? :eek:

I didn't think it would matter as long as I spackled/sanded it to get it smooth at the end. I didn't think this particular piece needed to as be strong or "dead" as MDF. I just happened to have some lying around.

Just to be perfectly clear this is NOT the material that I use for the endcaps. For the endcaps I'll use 22mm MDF.

Great pics guys!!!! Thanks for sharing.

Rune, I doubt it matters that its particle board for port flares. I can't see why is would matter.

Rune, I doubt it matters that its particle board for port flares. I can't see why is would matter.
No, if it's just for the flares it wont matter at all. Don't let anybody tell you that it will. That was a close one though. You do want your caps as strong and as dead as possible, but then you know that.

No, if it's just for the flares it wont matter at all. Don't let anybody tell you that it will. That was a close one though. You do want your caps as strong and as dead as possible, but then you know that.

Oh my God - did you guys think I was going to use 13mm particle board for the endcaps? No wonder you were concerned :D

Oh my God - did you guys think I was going to use 13mm particle board for the endcaps? No wonder you were concerned :D
Not after your prior post. I think br C and Sherv were kind of worried because that's how they built their first subs. :o ..don't tell them I told you though. That Sherv can be a real hothead and I don't need the lecture from Steve C. :D :D

Oh my God - did you guys think I was going to use 13mm particle board for the endcaps? No wonder you were concerned :D
well, after you clarified it, I was ok....you definitely need the end caps to be as strong as possible. Anyways, all is clear now :)

Not after your prior post. I think br C and Sherv were kind of worried because that's how they built their first subs. :o ..don't tell them I told you though. That Sherv can be a real hothead ........
LOL....are you sure you aint confusing me with your first sub? hehehehe :p ....dont forget before this DIY home stuff, I've been running the car audio/AISCA circles for years! ;)

nah man, i'm pretty level headed, but two things just get to me...kinda like my red buttons: hard headed/closed minded individuals, and arrogant/pompous individuals....just doesn't fly with me. :o Other than that, I'm not a real hot head...heheheheheheh

I'll probably go for an EP2500, but a PA-guy recommended the Phonic Max2500 (http://210.243.85.5/partner/modules/product_explor/products_detail.php?product_id=107#) over the EP2500 (better build quality etc.). The price is about the same (or a little less, actually).

I've never heard about the Max 2500, but browsing through the manual I came upon this passage:

"Subsonic: Frequencies below 10 Hz contain high level of energy that can be harmful or stressful for many speakers. Since normal human listening range (is) from 20Hz to 20kHz, this unit comes with a feature that helps filter out any frequency that is below 10 Hz to prevent speakers from harm".

In addition the user can set a Hight Pass filter to PASS, 30Hz or 50Hz.

I'm not entirely sure what this 10Hz thing is all about. From what it says, it doesn't look like they write about a "natural roll off" for a typical amplifier, but more like some kind of active measure? 10 Hz may be a few Hz to low as a HP filter for my sub, but since the use of HP filters in LLT designs is debated anyhow, maybe this 10 Hz HP is exactly what I'm looking for?

I'm not sure if the EP2500 has something similar?

If you're PA guy is right about the quality of that amp, then go for it. It looks good to me, but I've never heard anything about it.

I'm not entirely sure what this 10Hz thing is all about. From what it says, it doesn't look like they write about a "natural roll off" for a typical amplifier, but more like some kind of active measure? 10 Hz may be a few Hz to low as a HP filter for my sub, but since the use of HP filters in LLT designs is debated anyhow, maybe this 10 Hz HP is exactly what I'm looking for?
I dunno? From what I here the 10 and 15 hz hing point doesn't make that much difference. I think that has to be specific to the sub in question though?? Anyway it is interesting and this is a new amp that I have never heard of..if anything it will help keep BEHRINGER on their toes price wise no?
LOL....are you sure you aint confusing me with your first sub? hehehehe ....dont forget before this DIY home stuff, I've been running the car audio/AISCA circles for years!
OOPS! I forgot about that, I bow down to you then.:) Seriously though...I couldn't help pulling your chain, I'm getting kind of giddy thinking of all the subs I have slotted with whatever 18" driver I go with next. One thing we both know is RuneW is going to have quite a rig on his hands. I have had dual sono's in the same room, but only one hooked up. I know they/dual would come in a couple dB better than my 21 cu ft dual driver rig with better SQ to boot.

Your most likely planning on parting your subs 4-5' RuneW? If so, that should still put you very close to the dual driver rig that I built. Headroom will not be a issue even though it's imo that a single 15" option will provide much more than what many realise.

You gotta consider that the 10hz filter probably isn't a brickwall, it's just centered at 10hz. This means that the FR could be dropping before 10hz, and this could take away some in room extension - though a 15hz tuning might be high enough that it won't. It's also gonna degrade transient response - might not be audible, but it's defeating a fair chunk of the purpose of building a large and low tuned sub to begin with. I'd say take an in room FR measurement with it on and off, and decide from there.

You gotta consider that the 10hz filter probably isn't a brickwall, it's just centered at 10hz. This means that the FR could be dropping before 10hz, and this could take away some in room extension - though a 15hz tuning might be high enough that it won't. It's also gonna degrade transient response - might not be audible, but it's defeating a fair chunk of the purpose of building a large and low tuned sub to begin with. I'd say take an in room FR measurement with it on and off, and decide from there.

I don't think you can't turn it off... Maybe I'll stick to the EP2500. It's no big deal.

Typical pro sound specs :rolleyes:

It says that the low cut (HP) filter is at 10Hz. Assuming a 2nd order filter, it would be down 3dB at 10Hz and down 15dB at 5Hz.

But, the FR specs say that the 3dB down points are at 5Hz and 50KHz and the 20-20K specs are listed as (+/-) 1dB :confused:

The 10Hz HP is not user-defeatable, per the block diagram on page #15, so something isn't right.

Also, as usual, the power ratings are at 1KHz, so expect considerably less output in the subwoofer range. I would bet that this amp is a rebadged EP2500, as the specs are nearly identical.

This would probably mean that the EP2500 has the same 10Hz HP filter in place, making the specs pure BS (they simply get the FR BEFORE the 10Hz HP).

I personally wouldn't use these amps (or the Crown XLS series, Samson, Nady, etc.) if you gave me one free. The QSC RMX series is the lowest quality I would use, and actually, the QSC PLX-04 series is a great amp for the money.

Both the QSC's RMX and PLX series have a 2nd order 5Hz HP (down 3dB at 5Hz).

Rune...Nice project. Looking forward to more pics and some subjectives :)

Bosso

Typical pro sound specs :rolleyes:

It says that the low cut (HP) filter is at 10Hz. Assuming a 2nd order filter, it would be down 3dB at 10Hz and down 15dB at 5Hz.

But, the FR specs say that the 3dB down points are at 5Hz and 50KHz and the 20-20K specs are listed as (+/-) 1dB :confused:

The 10Hz HP is not user-defeatable, per the block diagram on page #15, so something isn't right.

Also, as usual, the power ratings are at 1KHz, so expect considerably less output in the subwoofer range. I would bet that this amp is a rebadged EP2500, as the specs are nearly identical.

This would probably mean that the EP2500 has the same 10Hz HP filter in place, making the specs pure BS (they simply get the FR BEFORE the 10Hz HP).

I personally wouldn't use these amps (or the Crown XLS series, Samson, Nady, etc.) if you gave me one free. The QSC RMX series is the lowest quality I would use, and actually, the QSC PLX-04 series is a great amp for the money.

Both the QSC's RMX and PLX series have a 2nd order 5Hz HP (down 3dB at 5Hz).

Rune...Nice project. Looking forward to more pics and some subjectives :)

Bosso

Thanks for the nice words and information, Bosso!

The problem, of course, is money... The QSC's looks nice (I really don't know anything about PA amps...), but they cost 2-3 times as much as the EP2500, and I really have to draw the line somewhere ;) God knows I have enough other things to use up my money on (like the rest of my home theater).

Todays work...

I flipped over the DIY flares to round the other side. The flare is fastened on a piece of port pipe which in turn is recessed in a circular groove in the board below. This means that it is relatively easy to keep the router still while rotating the flare. Here the inner edge is rounded:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_28.jpg

And here's the result after one round of filler (?) and (coarse) sanding. I'll probably do another round. Don't know how critical it is, however. I think maybe I'll paint them later:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_31.jpg

And I finally got my act together and cut the other port pipe. Those pipes are made of 5mm PVC and it's %/¤&%¤ hard keeping them still while sawing...:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_32.jpg

BTW, I've started the break-in of the drivers:

http://winsevik.homeip.net/htf/2007/e4/e4_34.jpg

I was considering using the state of the art pre-war Bulgarian break-in device under the table, but went for the old DiscMan-with-pre-LPF'ed-break-in-CD routine instead:

http://winsevik.homeip.net/htf/2007/e4/e4_35.jpg

very nice Rune.....keep it coming! :)

ps- I hope all buckeyes die in a Fire! :mad:

What content is on a woofer 'breaking-in' cd?

Is it just like pink noise? Brown noise? Sweeps?

Bosso, I believe the Behringer EP2500 is actually a rebadged QSC RMX. The cycle never ends.

very nice Rune.....keep it coming! :)

ps- I hope all buckeyes die in a Fire! :mad:

Thanks!

Didn't understand the one about "buckeyes" though... what does it mean?

What content is on a woofer 'breaking-in' cd?

Is it just like pink noise? Brown noise? Sweeps?

It's not a commercial breaking-in CD or something like that, just a self burned CD-R. As a warm up I'm just playing a 15Hz sine at moderate levels. This way I don't have to listen to it two floors above... After a few days, maybe I'll move on to something like this (http://www.flageborg.no/SVSpatruljen/burn_in.wma). But low pass filtered of course!

BTW: I'm absolutely not an break-in expert in any way. If you have any advice, please feel free!

One thing we both know is RuneW is going to have quite a rig on his hands. I have had dual sono's in the same room, but only one hooked up. I know they/dual would come in a couple dB better than my 21 cu ft dual driver rig with better SQ to boot.

Your most likely planning on parting your subs 4-5' RuneW? If so, that should still put you very close to the dual driver rig that I built. Headroom will not be a issue even though it's imo that a single 15" option will provide much more than what many realise.

"parting your subs 4-5' "? You mean to separate the twins? What kind of parent would ever do that? :D

Anyway, I know that my two subs (in my 4.5 x 6 meter home theater) will be overkill DeLuxe, but they have a second purpose. Each year we have a "guy evening (htfhome.com)". I don't know what you call it, but you know, no females allowed. We rent this old "public house" out on the countryside and fill it with whatever we have that makes most noise and play 2-3 movies with some pizza in between. This has become a nice tradition and next year it's a ten year anniversary. Here's what we do:

1. Use 7-8 hours to rig the system (8 speakers, subs, cables, PJ whatever)
2. Watch 2-3 movies
3. Use 2 hours to dismantle the system

If this isn't crazy I don't know... ;) But we love it! Let's us play around with different solutions very often. The thing is, we try to get it louder and better each year and it getting hard to do that...

I won't bore you with more details, but my sono's mission this next march is to fill a large room (about 475 cubic metres (find your calculators...)) with kidney crushing bass, so they will have challenge in front of them :) I happen to be the driving force behind this event, so I just had to take steps to ensure proper bass for the 10 year anniversary... hence the sonos.

But good/loud bass at home won't hurt (or will it?) either :D

hehehe...yeah Rune, we have that here too; it's called being single! :D :p

As a warm up I'm just playing a 15Hz sine at moderate levels. This way I don't have to listen to it two floors above... After a few days, maybe I'll move on to something like this. But low pass filtered of course!
You're breaking it in by playing a continuous 15hz sine wave with the driver in free air?

hehehe...yeah Rune, we have that here too; it's called being single! :D :p

Yup. I get to be single once a year... ;)

You're breaking it in by playing a continuous 15hz sine wave with the driver in free air?

Maybe not breaking it in as much as warming it up (and confirming that they work at all). I was hoping that by loosening them up in this way I could save some time when the real break in time comes (within an enclosure for sure).

But as I've said before - I'm absolutely not break in expert, so if you think I'm doing something harmful or is wasting my time by this "break in light", please do say so!

As long as you're not bottoming them out or clipping the amp, you'll be fine. Its not as if you're using a high power amp with them anyway.

As long as you're not bottoming them out or clipping the amp, you'll be fine. Its not you're using a high power amp with them anyway.

No. I'm VERY careful. The drivers are moving less than 8mm (+/- 4 mm). As I said, I'm just loosening them up a little. I won't be "mean" to them before they're safe in their new homes...

Thanks!

Didn't understand the one about "buckeyes" though... what does it mean?

He's talking about college football. Michigan State vs Ohio State (Ohio is the buckeyes ;) )

He's talking about college football. Michigan State vs Ohio State (Ohio is the buckeyes ;) )

OK, thanks Jerm357! I don't know too much about college football I'm afraid :o

Another (corny?) idea: I'm thinking about putting a circular mirror "in" the bottom plate like alternative 3 or 4 below:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/sono_mirror.gif

A guy I know knows a glazier who can cut a mirror to specification for me. Maybe something to think about?

After all, it's a shame hiding the TC-2000s like one does in standard sonos... ;)

Another (corny?) idea: I'm thinking about putting a circular mirror "in" the bottom plate like alternative 3 or 4 below:
After all, it's a shame hiding the TC-2000s like one does in standard sonos... ;)

I like the idea after hearing someone mention it a few weeks back. What i was thinking of doing was using a piece of lexan or plexiglass then tint it with blue tint. You can find smoked plexiglass too. Lexan or plexiglass should be easy to cut with your router and jig. But hey if you can get a good deal on the glass cut to your specs go for it.

I have to wonder that it mignt be tough to get a good view of the sub since it will be viewed from a angle. The length of the legs will have an effect too.

I like the idea after hearing someone mention it a few weeks back. What i was thinking of doing was using a piece of lexan or plexiglass then tint it with blue tint. You can find smoked plexiglass too. Lexan or plexiglass should be easy to cut with your router and jig. But hey if you can get a good deal on the glass cut to your specs go for it.

I have to wonder that it mignt be tough to get a good view of the sub since it will be viewed from a angle. The length of the legs will have an effect too.

My guess is that you won't see the drivers from a normal sitting position, but that it will be easier to study them (in action) if you (or your visiting friends) squat down a little closer to the sub.

Just a couple of pictures...

After two of rounds of filler(?)/sanding, the DIY flares were ready for painting. I now consider them finished (when the paint is dry...):
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_36.jpg


And for all those who were afraid that I was about to use 13mm particle board for the endcaps, here's the real deal. No nonsense 30mm MDF:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_39.jpg

I'm probably going to use 30mm + 22 mm as the bottom endcap, with the driver partially recessed.

One other thing: Are the pictures loading slowly? They're located on my in-house web server. If the loading speed is annoying, I'll put them on a faster server. It's just laziness that I haven't done it already...

nice job on the flares Rune! :) Good stuff. keep'm coming.

Nice pics! They load just fine! :-)

Yep, they load fine for me as well.

Great job so far Rune, keep it up!

Just a connection question while the paint dries (should be dry now, since I've had a 2-day break from the sono project...).

I'm wondering if I should use Neutrik Speakon (http://www.neutrik.com/content/products/level02.aspx?id=203_324141&catId=CatMSDE_audio) connectors on the sub. Heres what I'm talking about:

http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/speakon_plug.jpg
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/speakon_connector.jpg

Here's the (admittedly extremely short) pro and con list:

+ Very easy to connect/disconnect
- The speaker cable diameter is too small (max 4 mm2)

It's also possible to use a 4-pole Speakon and split the speaker cable, using two+two soldering points, and thereby effectively double the cable areal.


Good or bad idea?

Another (corny?) idea: I'm thinking about putting a circular mirror "in" the bottom plate

A convex mirror like the one's used to see around the corner of wall is another idea but not sure if this would effect the downfiring of the driver. This may make it easier to see the sub.

A suitable one i found was 12". The next size is 18"

A convex mirror like the one's used to see around the corner of wall is another idea but not sure if this would effect the downfiring of the driver. This may make it easier to see the sub.

A suitable one i found was 12". The next size is 18"

A convex mirror! Why didn't i think of that :D

Now it's too late. I've already ordered two 44 cm diameters mirrors (got them for about 10 bucks each).

mirror mirror on the wall...who is the baddest of them all??

http://www.teamtoxicbass.com/downloads/videos/pete_ava15_hairtrick.wmv

:D

mirror mirror on the wall...who is the baddest of them all??

http://www.teamtoxicbass.com/downloads/videos/pete_ava15_hairtrick.wmv

:D

:eek: That can't be for real, can it???

Will my sonos do that to my the hair of my wife if she gets too close?

She's grumpy enough about the size of them - image what her mood's going to be like if they mess up her hair too :D

It's now 00:20 AM and I've just cut the last MDF-part:

http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_41.jpg

Now it's just a matter of some routing-with-a-circle-jig work...

:eek: That can't be for real, can it???
Will my sonos do that to my the hair of my wife if she gets too close?

:D If the sono blows like that you may be replacing those mirrors, just kidding. Got to that website they have a couple more clips with the hair test.

Working overtime, A true man on a mission. Keep up the good work.

Unlike many of you guys, my "sonotube" is unwaxed. This means that it has very little protection against moisture/water as it is. I'm just wondering if anybody has som ideas to what kind of paint/varnish I should use to protect the tube.

Another effect of painting the inside would be that is I use some kind of self adhesive lining it will stick better.

I'll come back to the lining later...

Here's the (admittedly extremely short) pro and con list:

+ Very easy to connect/disconnect
- The speaker cable diameter is too small (max 4 mm2)

It's also possible to use a 4-pole Speakon and split the speaker cable, using two+two soldering points, and thereby effectively double the cable areal.


Good or bad idea?
IMO 4 mm^2 isn't too small. That's around 11 gauge, right?

IMO 4 mm^2 isn't too small. That's around 11 gauge, right?

I have no idea :)

But I've heard from other sources that 4 mm^2 isn't all that bad, so I'll go for the Speakon alternative.

For those who care, here's a few more pictures:

I finally got to use the circle jig:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_42.jpg

The jig was a little bit wobbly, but a piece of paper fixed it ;)
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_43.jpg

A little work with the rounding bit to make the fit easier:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_46.jpg

No, I'm not trying to make cymbals... This is just a handy handle, in case I want to get the %¤/&%¤/%" thing out of the tube again...:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_47.jpg

...and lo and behold - it actually fits. But it was too easy to get it in, so I adjusted the circle jig just a tiny bit so that the next pieces were a little bit larger:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_48.jpg

There was no way I could get all the way through the 30 mm MDF, so I'll just work from the other side later on:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_50.jpg

Here's the four Ø54 cm base plate and bottom endcap pieces:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_51.jpg

And here's one dusty (but happy) sono builder...:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_52.jpg

And here's my contribution to the tallest-pile-of-MDF-dust-compo! I put in a dual imperial/metric measuring device for my American friends:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_54.jpg

Next thing up:

- Routing the 30mm MDF
- Make holes for the PVC-tube and driver
- Start working on the 30mm pine pieces that will make up the visible top endcap piece

Very nice pictures and great work so far. Keep it up!

I've just been playing around with BassBoxPro and WinISD for the sonosub setup that I have (258liter net volume / 15.3 Hz tuning / TC-2000 driver), and I've obviously done something wrong here. Just look at the attached plots. WinISD reports almost twice as large group delay @ 20 Hz.

And the CA plot from BassBoxPro doesn't look particularly healthy either... :confused:

I have never used BassBoxPro before, so I must have screwed it up somewhere.

I've just been playing around with BassBoxPro and WinISD for the sonosub setup that I have (258liter net volume / 15.3 Hz tuning / TC-2000 driver), and I've obviously done something wrong here. Just look at the attached plots. WinISD reports almost twice as large group delay @ 20 Hz.

And the CA plot from BassBoxPro doesn't look particularly healthy either... :confused:

I have never used BassBoxPro before, so I must have screwed it up somewhere.
you probably have the wrong T/S params

what are you using? double check your params, and just in case, make sure you are in metric/english.

Bassbox is pretty good when entering the params, as it will help you figure them out on the fly as you go, whereas WinISD you need to read the help file to see which order to exactly enter the params or you are in trouble.

When entering driver parameters into WinISD Pro, enter ONLY these in the following order:


TC-2000 SVC-15

Qes 0.347
Qms 4.264
Fs 18
Vas 267
Mms 296
Re = Res 3.19
Le = Ls 2.45
Xmax 28

It will calculate everything else you need. Fields it doesn't calculate don't really have an effect on the simulation.

you probably have the wrong T/S params

what are you using? double check your params, and just in case, make sure you are in metric/english.

I was hoping that my parameters were visible in the screen dumps, but if they aren't I can of course put them here in plain text.

BTW: I'm using WinISD 0.44 beta (not pro)

(And what a fantastic poster you have for you insane new project!)

Rune - I just modeled your design in WinISD .50a7 Alpha, and the group delay looks the same. I think you're worried over nothing though. The group delay from 20Hz and up is quite good for a ported design, and the audibility of the simulated group delay below 20Hz is in question. There hasn't been enough research done, but from what we know, group delay at these levels in the lower frequencies shouldn't be very audible (not to say it doesn't matter at all). Eitherway, with a ported design you will have to deal with some higher group delay no matter the enclosure size or Fb.

More importantly, from 30Hz+ the simulated group delay is equal to or lower than a sealed sub using the same driver. Even at 20Hz, a supposed 18.4ms of group delay is by no means extreme.

Rune - I just modeled your design in WinISD .50a7 Alpha, and the group delay looks the same.

The same as I got in WinISD, or the same as in BassBoxPro?

I think you're worried over nothing though. The group delay from 20Hz and up is quite good for a ported design, and the audibility of the simulated group delay below 20Hz is in question. There hasn't been enough research done, but from what we know, group delay at these levels in the lower frequencies shouldn't be very audible (not to say it doesn't matter at all). Eitherway, with a ported design you will have to deal with some higher group delay no matter the enclosure size or Fb.

More importantly, from 30Hz+ the simulated group delay is equal to or lower than a sealed sub using the same driver. Even at 20Hz, a supposed 18.4ms of group delay is by no means extreme.

I wasn't so worried about the group delay as such, but more about the difference between the two programs...

Thanks for the comforting words, though :)

---

On a side note: I got confirmation that the EP2500 is on it's way. Tomorrow I'll shop for parts for the fan modification for it.

The same as I got in WinISD, or the same as in BassBoxPro?

The same as you got in WinISD, basically.

Phew! I don't know why it should take this long, but now I've finally cut the last of the circles.

For the visible part of the top endcap I've selected 30mm pine. Yes, I know pine sucks, but that's what could get my hands on easily (and cheaply). I'm going to stain the pine very dark and matte to minimize glare/reflections from the screen once they get in a home theater.


Twig-slalom:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_62.jpg

And here they are. All 12 of them:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_63.jpg

2 x Ø54cm 30mm pine
4 x Ø50cm 22mm MDF
2 x Ø50cm 30mm MDF
4 x Ø54cm 22mm MDF

So, to start from the top:

Top endcap is 30mm pine + 22mm MDF + 22mm MDF

Bottom endcap is 30mm MDF + 22mm MDF

Baseplate is 22mm MDF

Any objections?

That sounds good to me!

Are you gonna put a round over or bevel on the pine?

That sounds good to me!

Are you gonna put a round over or bevel on the pine?

I think I'll pretty much stick to the original design:

http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/Erna%204b.gif

Except the topmost plate is 30mm and thus the rounding towards the port has R=30mm.

Stupid me, I forgot about that.

Looks good.

Stupid me, I forgot about that.

Looks good.

Not stupid at all, Willd!

I have already changed other things in my design in the last weeks, so I don't think this was especially obvious.

My God, you guys must be tired of me and this thread... :p

Today I'm pondering about alternatives for a port hole grille.

If you look at the attachment, I've sketched 3 alternatives. The basic idea is to use something ala wide stitched stocking fabric in one of the three places.

I think I can rule out alternative A, because placing something where the air speed is the highest has to be a bad, bad idea...

Alternative B is a little better, but since I have this DIY flare witch is kind of smallish, I think this wouldn't do either. If I'd only had a huge flare, this alternative would certainly be something to think about. Hmm.... it's not to late to buy something... (even if I've spent 3 days making the DIY flares :( )

The pros of A and B is, of course, that if somethind should fall down the port, it would be easier to get it out again.

That leaves alternative C. A small challenge with the fastening of the stocking, but shouldn't cause any problems with the acoustics I hope...

What do you think?

you probably have the wrong T/S params

what are you using? double check your params, and just in case, make sure you are in metric/english.

Bassbox is pretty good when entering the params, as it will help you figure them out on the fly as you go, whereas WinISD you need to read the help file to see which order to exactly enter the params or you are in trouble.

Yes, I had (of course) royally ****ed up the TS params. I had somehow added the wrong Sd value (from God knows where) in the BassBoxPro driver parameters window. Leaving the Sd field empty made the graphs (and F3) much more sensible...

I'm truly sorry for wasting your time on this.....arrrrghhh :o :o :o

Yes, I had (of course) royally ****ed up the TS params. I had somehow added the wrong Sd value (from God knows where) in the BassBoxPro driver parameters window. Leaving the Sd field empty made the graphs (and F3) much more sensible...

I'm truly sorry for wasting your time on this.....arrrrghhh :o :o :o
dont worry about it.....just dont let it happen again! http://xtremesystems.org/forums/images/smilies/smackbum.gif


hehehe :p :D

dont worry about it.....just dont let it happen again! http://xtremesystems.org/forums/images/smilies/smackbum.gif

Ouch! :D

Now that I'm entering the glue-endcap-pieces-together stage, I just want to get confirmed that my bottom endcap is going to be rigid enough...

I have more or less settled for the design below:

http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/TC-2000_sono_bottom_endcap.gif

But now is the time to tell me if this isn't good enough... I'm out of MDF, but I have some plywood lying around which I could glue on top of the endcap as you see above...

rune, you will need a thing layer of plywood or similar in the back side of the bottom plate, and then use something like T-nuts or hurrican nuts, to hold the screws in place. MDF wood is not made (unlike real wood) to support the threads of the screws, so they will just pop right out like that.

see this:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/ProfessorJon/mountdriver.jpg

or you could buy a small sheet of 3/8" plywood, and make that another layer of your bottom cap, route out the cutout for the speaker just like you would for the 22mm and 30mm plates, and then put the t-nuts/hurricane nuts on them.

rune, you will need a thing layer of plywood or similar in the back side of the bottom plate, and then use something like T-nuts or hurrican nuts, to hold the screws in place. MDF wood is not made (unlike real wood) to support the threads of the screws, so they will just pop right out like that.

see this:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/ProfessorJon/mountdriver.jpg

or you could buy a small sheet of 3/8" plywood, and make that another layer of your bottom cap, route out the cutout for the speaker just like you would for the 22mm and 30mm plates, and then put the t-nuts/hurricane nuts on them.

Thanks for saving me, ssabripo!

I was told that T-nuts and such was unnecessary, because the included screws were so good, but that obviously demanded wood as material? Strange, as I thought MDF was the de-facto standard for speaker enclosure material, but so be it...

I'll try adding a plywood-layer on top of the 30mm MDF. Can't hurt with some extra stiffness (and sono bracing). 3/8" shouldn't steel to many liters either.

Yeah...so...Sherv is wrong.

You can just pop the screws in that TC-Sounds sent you, straight into the MDF. You'll have zero problems...trust me.

But you can surely add a layer of ply if you want to. Still no need for t-nuts though...

Yeah...so...Sherv is wrong.

You can just pop the screws in that TC-Sounds sent you, straight into the MDF. You'll have zero problems...trust me.

But you can surely add a layer of ply if you want to. Still no need for t-nuts though...
they must be special screws! :D

I have yet to see any screw hold on mdf, much less on a 15" driver.......show me your trick there Will :p .

Rune, dunno about you, but i rather be safe than sorry....the thin plywood piece costs you about $2. Well worth the peace of mind, IMO ;)

Well I guess my screws are just magical. ;)

Nah, I do have a 1/2" layer of OSB on top of the 3/4" MDF layer, so I suppose the ends of my screws could be grabbing that layer.

Still, Steve-nn will back me up on this one, and he's built a few subs. ;)

:D

I have yet to see any screw hold on mdf All it takes is a pilot hole, and a steady hand to keep from over torquing it. ;)

A little wood glue will keep it from backing out over time.

I've built alot of car audio sub boxes and have used drywall screws to secure the subs. It's been my experience that as long as you don't remove the screws from the initial insertion you'll be fine. You will run into problems if you need to remove the sub and then put it back in. Out of 8 screws, maybe half will still get a bite while the others will just spin. It's hit and miss. You could always just rotate the sub a bit off from the previous holes and make new ones and be ok. When I built my sono I did use a 1/4" layer of plywood and t-nuts with bolts, size 10-32 at 2" long. I don't plan to ever remove my sub, but stuff happens and I didn't want any headaches.... Just my opinion.

perhaps.....I'm just going by own experience here, and after a couple of home subs, and many car subs, I've never ever built one where I dont have solid backing for the screws to hold on to on the MDF. I take the driver off all the time, and the very first time you do that, WHAM, there goes the threading and all hold of the screws on the MDF.

Try it without and see if it holds fast after you remove the driver a couple of times....if not, you can always glue a plywood piece, and redo.

perhaps.....I'm just going by own experience here, and after a couple of home subs, and many car subs, I've never ever built one where I dont have solid backing for the screws to hold on to on the MDF. I take the driver off all the time, and the very first time you do that, WHAM, there goes the threading and all hold of the screws on the MDF.

Try it without and see if it holds fast after you remove the driver a couple of times....if not, you can always glue a plywood piece, and redo.

Hehehe - and I though that you guys had stopped reading this thread ;)

I certainly don't plan to ever remove the driver, but still I subscribe to the better safe than sorry view. And, you see, I've already bought the t-nuts since I was unsure, so if I find some plywood I think I'll try cutting (yet) another pair of plates to put on the top of the 30mm MDF.

Thanks, guys!

Hehehe - and I though that you guys had stopped reading this thread ;)

I certainly don't plan to ever remove the driver, but still I subscribe to the better safe than sorry view. And, you see, I've already bought the t-nuts since I was unsure, so if I find some plywood I think I'll try cutting (yet) another pair of plates to put on the top of the 30mm MDF.

Thanks, guys!

Yo Wild.... nah nah nah nah boo boo :D

Yo Wild.... nah nah nah nah boo boo :D

Well, its too late, he is already listening to you.

Thats his loss. :p

:D

Well, its too late, he is already listening to you.

Thats his loss. :p

:D

I think I'll do 4 of each, just to keep the peace ;)

I think I'll do 4 of each, just to keep the peace ;)

Well with the way that some folks think around here, only the hand of god is keeping my precious TC-2000 from falling out of the endcap. ;)

Basically, the screws that TC-Sounds included with the sub are perfectly fine, and unless you plan on repeatedly removing your driver (why would anyone do that?!) then you don't need to use t-nuts and bolts.

Afterall, TC Sounds obviously supports the use of the screws, or else they wouldn't include them...

Just drill pilot holes and it'll be fine.

and unless you plan on repeatedly removing your driver (why would anyone do that?!) then you don't need to use t-nuts and bolts.
You know Will,.. even if a guy does, a good course wood screw can be used over and over.

hehe....dont you just feel the love in the air?! :)

You guys are the best... I mean it. :eek:

I used these....
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=081-425

1" Deep thread pan head screws on my downfiring RL-P 15 in raw MFD and have had no problems at all. I have even removed the driver like three times and the screws still screw down and lock tight. I just figure if the holes ever get stripped than thats when I can get some T-nuts and drill out the holes and install them. Also the only reason I used these screws is because I had a bag full of them from my old polk sub otherwise I would have went with something else .

Sorry double posted :p

You know Will,.. even if a guy does, a good course wood screw can be used over and over.

Oh indeed Steve, indeed, but you must remember who my audience is (for the most part). ;)

:D

Oh indeed Steve, indeed, but you must remember who my audience is (for the most part).
I gotcha:) I went back a little further.
Well with the way that some folks think around here, only the hand of god is keeping my precious TC-2000 from falling out of the endcap. ;)
Ha!..that's hilarious but true. :D
I just figure if the holes ever get stripped than thats when I can get some T-nuts and drill out the holes and install them.
No need to take on drastic measures when all you have to do is break off a couple toothpicks in the hole and screw the screw back in. For that matter since your using 8#'s, you could move up to a 9# with the problem hole and be done with it. You could also just go with a 1.5" 8# on the problem hole. The thing is, if a guy is going with 1.5" 7#'s or courser, the likelihood of stripping coming up is very mute unless he has his torch set to full. I don't know what we would call a guy that would do such a thing, but I'm sure there is a good descriptive that would cover it. :D
hehe....dont you just feel the love in the air?! You guys are the best... I mean it.
Lol :) T-nuts! Either you love'm or you hate'm. I'll keep my opinion to myself though. :o Didn't you know that Santa gives out T-nuts to the bad little boy's and girl's?? :D

Here's my solution to the port grille problem:

http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/E4_stoff.gif

I'm going to route(?) a groove around the port hole, then make a MDF ring clad in "speaker fabric" and place it "snugly" in the groove. This will (hopefully) appear as a "flush-mounted circle of fabric on the top end cap". You know what I mean...

After a funny game of "is it yet another box inside this box?", I finally found the amp:
http://htfhome.com/2007/ep2500_mod/ep_02.jpg

I switched directly to mod mode and exchanged the noisy original 80mm fan with a 92mm Mist fan (http://www.microplex.no/product.aspx?pid=MISTYLFA92LSCL&mcat=15s359) from Microplex. This meant that I had to take the fan outside, but as we all can see there is very good clearance (at least 1mm) below the fan...:
http://htfhome.com/2007/ep2500_mod/ep_12.jpg

I don't know what camera your using, but it sure does a nice job not to mention the pic taker. :)

Well acording to Iexif, he's using the Canon DIGITAL IXUS 400. :)

Well acording to Iexif, he's using the Canon DIGITAL IXUS 400. :)

That's right, my 5 year old family pocket camera. Real state of the art equipment :D


If you want to know the trick, it's: macro, tripod, no flash and "timer" (no button pressing while the picure is taken).

Rune - Good trick,and I agree.

That's right, my 5 year old family pocket camera. Real state of the art equipment :D


If you want to know the trick, it's: macro, tripod, no flash and "timer" (no button pressing while the picure is taken).

I forgot something - I also do some rudimentary levels adjustment in Photoshop.

Boy, do I work fast... :rolleyes:

Finally I found a way to fasten the PVC tubes while cutting them:

http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_72.jpg

(yes, that's an Amiga monitor in the background)


After countless tests with the circke jig settings, I finally found a setting that matched the PVC-tubes perfectly. Here's the 30mm pine place on top of the PVC:

http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_74.jpg

Now, I'll use a r30mm rounding bit around this hole to make a nice flare.

I've finally managed to finish the DIY port grille ting...

As I've mentioned before, my hope was to make a speaker-fabric based "grille" that was more or less flush with the top endcap, like this:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/E4_stoff.gif

The solution involves magnets and pieces of iron and a 5mm thick material that I don't even want to start translating to English...

Anyway, here's the ring of the 5mm material with the pieces of iron glued on, and the speaker fabric halfway glued on:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_82.jpg

Trying out the fit:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_83.jpg

As we all see the DIY grille fits quite well and is more or less flush to the top endcap (just as I hoped it would be):
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_84.jpg

Magnet time! I used d10mm neodym-magnets which were very powerful for their size. Therefor I guess 3 of them is more than enough. If it turns out 3 is too few, it's no big deal adding 3 more later:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_85.jpg

The magnets glued flush to the routed grove:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_86.jpg

Now it's only the rest of the project left... ;)

RuneW, I built a 12" Assassin Sonosub which pushes out a ton of air through the top port. I'm pretty sure yours will push out more air than mine. Good luck with the magnets. If you look around here on some of the finished designs people have made some pretty nice grills that seemed to be attatched to the top endcap (fastened). Awaiting to hear how the magnets turn out. I does really look very nice,. Keep up the good work. Great thread.

Dude...what is up with your subs? Are you finished yet?

Dude...what is up with your subs? Are you finished yet?

I just don't want to bore you guys with my incredibel small steps of progress...

No, I'm not quite done yet... I'm working as fast as I'm allowed, though... Seems like my entire family is determined to slow me down... My wife's constantly bitching about the project and I have to to almost all my work after she's gone to bed, or else it's "Why are you going down to the basement? You're not going to work on those subs again? We never talk anymore!".

Bah... :p

Well, until lately, at least my kids haven't directly worked against the project (of course they're working against it indirectly purely by existing, but I won't hold that against them).

Here the other day, however, I almost killed them...

One of many distractions from The Important Thing (the sono project), is that I'm refurbishing many rooms in the basement (one of them is going to become a home theater, but that room is currently my work shop). Lately I've been working my ass off to get the /&¤%&¤ basement finished before Christmas, and 3 days ago it was as good as finished.

Anyway, as I was going to stain my sonosub pine tops with a dark, dark colour, I'd bought this stain bottle (it says Graphite Black):
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_103.jpg


Then I did two horrible mistakes:

1. I left the bottle on the freezer in the basement "hallway".
2. I let the brats loose down there to play while my wife and I prepared dinner...

With a beautiful example of cooperation the oldest brat (5) somehow managed to open the bottle and left it opened for the youngest brat (2) to play with. Here's the bottle after the incident:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_104.jpg

And here's the finished - no, sorry, the ex-finished room:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_105.jpg
(after 20 minutes of desperate cleaning I actually managed to save the floorboards. The stains on the door and wall was impossible to remove though)

I - must- not - kill - my - own - kids - I - must- not - kill - my - own - kids...


Well, somthimes I think it's a miracle I get something done at all... ;)


To be continued...

...continued.

Even with all the problems I've done something though...

Here's the pine top, from the carpenter shop where it got worked on with a 25mm roundover bit:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_90.jpg

Just testing with the PVC pipe:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_92.jpg

MDF burgers. The two and two glued 22mm MDF plates to be glued onto the pine top eventually:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_95.jpg

Like this (just testing):
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_96.jpg

The groove on the underside of the pine (where the sono will go):
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_101.jpg

Rounding the edges of the pine piece:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_102.jpg

And here after the stain was applied. Extremely dark, but with the wood pattern clearly visible, just as I wanted:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_110.jpg

Next up is varnishing (?) the pine tops, and assembling the top endcap.

Hang In there.....It's really looking pretty good...Take a breath and be patient....If you build it they will come.....heard it in a movie...anyway keep up the good work.

Hang In there.....It's really looking pretty good...Take a breath and be patient....If you build it they will come.....heard it in a movie...anyway keep up the good work.

Thanks for the moral support :-)

That stained pine does like nice, great work.

Great work dude. Your subs are really gonna be top-notch, I have no doubt.

They are coming out very nice, keep up the good work.

WOW!!! Awesome work Rune!!!! :)

That stained pine does like nice, great work.
Thanks! I hope they'll look even better with the varnish on.

Great work dude. Your subs are really gonna be top-notch, I have no doubt.
Let's just hope they sound good as well as look good ;)

They are coming out very nice, keep up the good work.
Thanks. And I have to say it again: Love your convex mirrors! I thought I'd be the first one to have a mirror in the base plate, but you beat me to it! And the convex thing - just love it!

WOW!!! Awesome work Rune!!!! :)
Thanks! :)

---

I guess it's still some weeks into the future, but I'm beginning to think about the lining of the tube. I don't know about Sonotubes, but my tubes are very far from "dead" if you know what I mean. If you knock on it, it "rings" (for the lack of a better word). Are the Sonotubes also like this, or should I be taking extra steps in the lining?

Seems like everybody have different lining solutions out there. Someone are lining the outside of the port tube and others find it unnecessary etc. Is there such thing as a "correct" amount of/material for lining? And how much is probably depending on the material used I guess. One inch of material A could be the same as 1.5 inch of material B and so forth...

Is there a calculator or cookbook or something for this?

As you may have suspected, I'm very insecure when it comes to lining subwoofers in general and expecially sonosubs... :confused:

Let's just hope they sound good as well as look good

You will be pleasantly surprised. ;)

I guess it's still some weeks into the future, but I'm beginning to think about the lining of the tube. I don't know about Sonotubes, but my tubes are very far from "dead" if you know what I mean. If you knock on it, it "rings" (for the lack of a better word). Are the Sonotubes also like this, or should I be taking extra steps in the lining?

Well you have to remember that when you are knocking on it right now, your plugs/end caps are not in place and those are basically the bracing for the tube.

Don't fret so much about the lining, really. It isn't critical to put in such a precise amount, just line the walls with 1-1.5inches of fiberglass or polybatting, and line the underside of the top-end caps as well. I don't think you need to line the outside of the port.

looking good RuneW....keep the pics coming. Good job so far. :)

Grabbed the contact cement and my wifes fabric scissors and finished the second DIY-port grille tonight:

http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_114.jpg

Yeah, and I also put on the first layer of varnish on the pine tops:

http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_113.jpg

A little bit of sanding and a few more layers of varnish and maybe they'll look decent...

Errm, call me an ass, but I liked the way it looked before the varnish :o

Errm, call me an ass, but I liked the way it looked before the varnish :o

Ass... hehe. No, I kind of agree actually... to late now, anyway. I'll just have to go through with the varnish thing and of it turns out to be a failure I'll just paint the damned thing and get it over with ;)

X-mas for me is more work than relaxing, but I managed to so a little work on my project...

I sanded the first layer of varnish (it does not look very promising when dry sanding):
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_117.jpg

But when the dust from the sanding is removed with a moist cloth and the second layer of varnish is applied it looks better:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_118.jpg
(but when the varnish is "fresh" it looks far to shiny for my taste)

But when the varnish dried it got the matte look that i wanted:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_119.jpg

I also started on the bottom end cap. I'm gonna recess the driver, so I cut out a hole to fit the entire driver gasket diameter:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_120.jpg

And here are two pieces more or less finished:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_123.jpg

Next up is cutting a hole in the 30mm part and gluing the bottom endcap 22+30mm MDF together.

---

HAPPY NEW YEAR GUYS!!!

X-mas for me is more work than relaxing, but I managed to so a little work on my project...

I sanded the first layer of varnish (it does not look very promising when dry sanding):
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_117.jpg

But when the dust from the sanding is removed with a moist cloth and the second layer of varnish is applied it looks better:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_118.jpg
(but when the varnish is "fresh" it looks far to shiny for my taste)

But when the varnish dried it got the matte look that i wanted:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_119.jpg

I also started on the bottom end cap. I'm gonna recess the driver, so I cut out a hole to fit the entire driver gasket diameter:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_120.jpg

And here are two pieces more or less finished:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_123.jpg

Next up is cutting a hole in the 30mm part and gluing the bottom endcap 22+30mm MDF together.

---

HAPPY NEW YEAR GUYS!!!
Hello RunW, just read through you build....I also built one very similar to yours a few months ago....sound far exceeds anything I have owned which included some pretty expensive B&W's.

Looking at you last few pics there I am very curious as to how you routed the groves for your Sono after you had already cut the center of the end cap out.....maybe I am missing something but that is the way it looks when following the order you have posted your pics.

Oh by the way you are doing an excellent job, can't wait the hear your impressions.

Hello RunW, just read through you build....I also built one very similar to yours a few months ago....sound far exceeds anything I have owned which included some pretty expensive B&W's.

Looking at you last few pics there I am very curious as to how you routed the groves for your Sono after you had already cut the center of the end cap out.....maybe I am missing something but that is the way it looks when following the order you have posted your pics.

Oh by the way you are doing an excellent job, can't wait the hear your impressions.

Thanks for the nice feedback!

As for the routing...You're right, because of some stupid thinking (I have to stop building subs at 2am), I suddenly had a gaping hole where the circle jig centre should have been :confused:

Not the first time this happens to me, though :o , so I didn't panic. It's a little tedious to fix, but not really difficult:

1. Find a piece of wood/MDF that has the same thickness as the piece you're about to do the routing on (I used the newly cut out piece of MDF).

2. Lay the "work piece" on a flat surface with the work surface facing up, with the other piece inside

3. Measure out a new centre. This is a matter of measuring from the edges until the distance to the four direction are equal. I'm sure there are some fancy tools out there that can do this, but I don't have any.

4. Fasten the two pieces together by screwing on a third piece of some material (it goes without saying that you have to be very careful not to move anything)

5. Turn the assembly around and screw it together again with a fourth piece of material

6. Turn it back and remove what you screwed on at point 4

7. Double check that the centre is still at the centre

8. Do your routing

Quite time consuming, but doable...

The 2x22mm MDF burger (the inner top endcap part) and the PVC-pipe was glued together with PL400:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_125.jpg

Some extra PL400 smeared around the pipe, just tp be sure:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_127.jpg

And here the strange constructions so typical for sonotubes:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_128.jpg

Some routing work again (at this point the routing works seems neverending). Here the cutout (Ø360 mm) for the driver in the 30mm MDF part:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_129.jpg

And here's how the bottom part will look like when it's glued and with the driver in place:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_131.jpg
(Later I'll do a little rounding around the inner edge of the 22mm MDF part)

(And yes, I know VHS tapes should not be placed close to strong magnetic fields, and no, it's nothing of importance on these tapes (at least not anymore :D ))

Bottom endcaps glued together:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_134.jpg

And here it is. "Only" 30+22mm but I think it should be enough, considering the small difference between driver diameter and tube diameter:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_135.jpg

And here's the final look of the top with the DIY-port "grille" (hope you like the look of them now, Steve (Callas) ;) ):
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_136.jpg

---

Back to lining again...

People have been pointing to a few lining materials, but from US based companies. I was hoping to get it locally. The problem, though, is that I don't know if they've got the same acoustical properties... I was looking at this from a Norwegian store:

http://www.mamut.com/homepages/Norway/1/18/dynabel/dm6000.jpg

But this material has the following comment on their web site:
This matierial has low absorption below 700Hz, and should be used combined with Akustilux or Acoust-Q, somewhat dependent of the intended usage

Should I be looking for something different? Or doesn't it matter?

Another thing. I read somewhere that sonotubes were to be preferred over PVC for port tubes, because they were "deader". I've got a PVC tube and I can confirm that it's not very dead. Should I bother lining it - just a little? Or maybe glue a piece of this on (on the lower part):

http://www.mamut.com/homepages/Norway/1/18/dynabel/dm7125.jpg

(It's a (heavy) self adhesive asphalt sheet)

Just use some R13 fiberglass insulation. Line the walls with one layer of it.

And I don't think you should bother lining the PVC at all.

Just use some R13 fiberglass insulation. Line the walls with one layer of it.

And I don't think you should bother lining the PVC at all.

I'm not familiar with this R13 term :confused:

Does it describe the size? Density?

It has been said that the use of lining materials in ported subwoofers is to try to attenuate any higher frequencies that get past the crossover. Lining won't stop the driver's front wave from producing these frequencies at all. If we look at the purpose of lining as an attempt at lessening any potential chances of a back wave reflecting off the top cap and coming back at the driver, then wrapping the port in several layers of batting would make sense.

If we look at the purpose of lining as an attempt at lessening any potential chances of a back wave reflecting off the top cap and coming back at the driver, then wrapping the port in several layers of batting would make sense.Given the sub's passband, batting on the port would need to be no less than 12"-15" thick to have appreciable effect on the rearwave.

I'm not familiar with this R13 term Rune,

R= resistance to movement of air, the higher the number the better. It's a rating system primarily used for classifying home insulation.

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

Given the sub's passband, batting on the port would need to be no less than 12"-15" thick to have appreciable effect on the rearwave.

Rune,

R= resistance to movement of air, the higher the number the better. It's a rating system primarily used for classifying home insulation.

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

Thanks Thomas!

-Rune

Guys, I'm close to the point where I'm "dry assembling" the sono and the endcaps.

I'm concerned about how much pressure I should apply to get the endcaps in (or rephrased: how tight the fit should be). I know this is almost impossible to describe (and that's probably why I haven't got a clear idea about it, even if reading a lot about sonosubs).

I'm afraid of tearing the sonotube apart if I'm "hammering" down the endcap. Is this very unlikely to happen?

Its doubtful you will do any damage to the tube. I remember hammering mine to fit a few times. No harm done.

Also remember that if you intend on gluing the endcaps in place that the glue will lessen the friction considerably.

Tape over the edge of the tube. Put a small roundover on the top edge of the caps. As for how much force to apply, I was literally hanging off the caps on my large 28" tube, using them to support my full body weight (215lbs), and jerking in the process to get that last bit down into the tube. With Jon's, both he and his girlfriend were hanging off the caps. So yeah, a lot of force can be applied. With tight tolerances, it will be hard to get the caps in, but the seal will be air tight with no adhesives needed. On the other hand, if it's clear your caps are a couple 16ths too big, you can use an electric sander to carefully lean them down a bit.

I'm afraid of tearing the sonotube apart if I'm "hammering" down the endcap. Is this very unlikely to happen?
Like Steve says..It's very hard getting the cap to fit perfectly without making some test cuts/caps prior, or sanding it down to perfect size when it's time.. If you feel it will require to much force to seat the cap, I would take some 80 grit to it. As common sense would tell you, if the cap is overlapping the sono, you'll wind up splitting or mashing the sono. If you get a supper dupper tight fit, I wouldn't plan on getting it back off again though...been there and learnt the hard way. :)

Your project is looking very well done, nice job!

If you get a supper dupper tight fit, I wouldn't plan on getting it back off again though...been there and learnt the hard way
Did you try palm heel strikes while circling the sub? With enough strikes, that will work :D

http://www.cse.dmu.ac.uk/~bb/dg/SelfDefence/Strikes/palm1b.jpg

http://www.lyon-karate.com/p/palm_heel_strike.jpg

Did you try palm heel strikes while circling the sub? With enough strikes, that will work :D
Got a good laugh out of that Steve :)

That's exactly what I was up to when my top-cap broke away from the inner caps. It was a pretty tight fit:o The bummer part about it all, was that I already had a good b-gloss paint job going.

Woah, you got the outer layer to break away from the inner two :eek: What kind of glue were you using between layers, and did you use any screws?

Woah, you got the outer layer to break away from the inner two :eek: What kind of glue were you using between layers, and did you use any screws?

Hearing such horros stories I think I'll add a few screws myself... ;)

Like Steve says..It's very hard getting the cap to fit perfectly without making some test cuts/caps prior, or sanding it down to perfect size when it's time.. If you feel it will require to much force to seat the cap, I would take some 80 grit to it. As common sense would tell you, if the cap is overlapping the sono, you'll wind up splitting or mashing the sono. If you get a supper dupper tight fit, I wouldn't plan on getting it back off again though...been there and learnt the hard way. :)

Originally I was aiming for a loose fit combined with some glue, but as they are now the fit is quite tight. I've used a roundover bit to make the entry easier, and when I tested one of the endcaps I got (a little) past the rounded part without being brutal. I guess that means I can go all the way without damaging the sonos...

Your project is looking very well done, nice job!

Thanks! It feels like it takes forever though... when I started this project I thought a sonosub would take about the same time to finish as a normal box sub.

Yeah, right... :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm sure the end result will be rewarding :-)

Thanks! It feels like it takes forever though... when I started this project I thought a sonosub would take about the same time to finish as a normal box sub.
That's a big 10-4 sono dragster:p People that say that, haven't built both! I know a sono seems like it should be easier, but imo the sono is 2X3 times time consuming.
Woah, you got the outer layer to break away from the inner two
No I didn't think I would need them. :) Instead of screws, I elected to put the port in towards the end.. That way I could tap the cap out from the inside.
Anyway, I'm sure the end result will be rewarding :-)
Be ready!

Back from vacation...

I'm going to use Speakon-connectors (http://www.audiopile.net/products/Adaptors_Connectors/Neutrik/NL2_Speakon/NL2MP_cutsheet.asp) for the cables, as it's very easy to use as well as build. A 25mm hole is all it takes:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_150.jpg

A 25mm hole all the way through is overkill, so I went in from the other side with a 16mm hole (cables only):
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_152.jpg

And here's the Speakon connector as it will look when screwed on:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_153.jpg

It's been a long time now... It's not that I havent done anything, just that I work so slow that it's becoming boring for you guys. Therefore I'll update you on a bi-weekly basis from now on I think...

---

I'm still not 100% sure how I'm going to dress the twins, so I'll paint them black, just to be sure. One of my options is to use "speaker fabric" and sew a sock that I "thread" down on the subs. In that case it's nice if the cardboard color doesn't shine through the fabric...:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_143.jpg

I discovered a small damage on one of the tubes:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_144.jpg

A bit of glue and some "bendable" material should fix it:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_145.jpg

Some "finger filling" around the edge of the bottom endcap to lessen the "MDF-look" when painted:
MDF'ete når jeg skal male dem:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_147.jpg

A little off topic: My PC that is in another room in the basement was starting to behave strangely. A small peek inside revealed the cause:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_148.jpg
I guess MDF-dust isn't good for computers either.... :D

I went and bought a couple of black stretch sheets. I think I'll make a couple of sock out of them to try on the subs:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_162.jpg


To be contunied in the next post...

...continued.

Made a crude DIY center finder to find the center of the legs...:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_168.jpg

Here's how I'm gonna fasten the legs: 5x80mm torx-screw:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_170.jpg

The screw is recessed 10-15mm...:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_171.jpg

...so we have a good deal of screw left for the leg:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_172.jpg

Testing one leg:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_173.jpg

Off with the legs and then some priming:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_174.jpg

looking good Rune....keep'm coming.

LOL at the Hardrive.....:p

Hi there Rune,

That's an inventive way to find the centre of the legs.


I hope your computer comes back to life after you vacuum all the dust out.

I used to work in IT support, and often had to clean out machines from dirty environments.

The best comment I ever left on a job sheet was "De-dust and remove spider"!


Your sub is certainly going to be well finished - it looks great!

Collo

Hi there Rune,

That's an inventive way to find the centre of the legs.

Nah... you can buy these things, but I just couldn't find were here in Norway...

I hope your computer comes back to life after you vacuum all the dust out.

Hehe - it's still hanging on... I'm writing this with it. It's watercooled, so it can be quite full of dust before it gives up, i guess. ;)

I used to work in IT support, and often had to clean out machines from dirty environments.

The best comment I ever left on a job sheet was "De-dust and remove spider"!

LOL!

Your sub is certainly going to be well finished - it looks great! Collo

Thanks, I'm close now. I can see the end of the tunnel...



BTW, Collo, since you're an expert in the field:

I did make some DIY-flares for the inner end of the port (as you can see earlier in this thread), but since I only had this puny R=10mm roundover bit I'm a little worried about them being to small. Have I reason to worry at all about this? I'm considering buying a couple of Aeroport 6" flares, but is it worth it?

Hey RuneW. MAN when are you going to be done with this :D . I been away for about 2months working on putting a computer and touch screen in my car....and you still not done :D . Looking good man. I know it's going to look good and sound good too.

It's been a long time now... It's not that I havent done anything, just that I work so slow that it's becoming boring for you guys.

Not a chance I'm bored, Rune.

This is one of my all time favorite build threads :D

The pics are excellent, the work is top notch, when the kids got stain everywhere, I could only imagine the distress (but I laughed anyway when you mentioned killing kids) and the wife with, 'We never talk anymore, you just go to the basement' was a most excellent icing on the cake.

I'll be here until the info stops coming...excellent work, my friend.

Bosso

I'll be here until the info stops coming...excellent work, my friend.

Wow, thanks for all your nice feedback! It sure makes me feel that this is not a waste of time :-)


The router bit (I've only got the cheapest kind, I'm sorry to say :o) is getting bit worn and the result is less than perfect. It's a good thing I'm done with the routing. Anyway, I had to do some fixing:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_175.jpg

After sanding the above, it was time for the endcaps to be primed:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_184.jpg

The legs primed:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_179.jpg


The moment of truth (yes, there are lots of moments of truth in this project...). The top endcap about to be glued/screwed:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_181.jpg
(BTW: What's the difference between a pregnant woman and a light bulb? You can unscrew the lightbulb. Sorry about this joke. For some reason I thought of this joke since 2 of my 3 kids are sick and probably won't sleep too much (and neither am I) tonight...)


8 5x70 mm screws together with the glue will hopefully hold this together:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_182.jpg

A little bit worried about the finish?:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_183.jpg

The transition between the PVC pipe and the pine was, as I expected, not very smooth. So there's some work left:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_188.jpg

Time for marking the holes for the driver screws:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_185.jpg



This last picture shows how much I deserve this project to be a success. For about 3 years now this has been the sorry excuse for a subwoofer in my house:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_180.jpg
(A 6" 10 litre joke that is part of a complete 5.1 speaker set selling for about $60)

I did make some DIY-flares for the inner end of the port (as you can see earlier in this thread), but since I only had this puny R=10mm roundover bit I'm a little worried about them being to small. Have I reason to worry at all about this? I'm considering buying a couple of Aeroport 6" flares, but is it worth it?

Hi Rune,

I responded to your PM before seeing this thread. Here's part of what I sent you...

...... I remember seeing your inner flare and thought that the radius was around 25mm - I'm surprised to hear that it's only around 10mm.


I don't have any data on inside flare sizes. I do know that ports have turbulence issues as air expands leaving the port ( or entering the box in the case of the inner flare).

Air flowing in the opposite direction is undergoing compression, so it is better behaved.

This means that any "chuffing" caused by the inside flare is only present as air is flowing into the box. The inrush of air should make it difficult to hear any problem from within the box.

This all means that you should be able to get away with a smaller flare on the inside than is used on the outside.

How much smaller? I don't know the answer to that one. I had intended to add some extra tests to my flare testing project, but never got around to it.

I've used 10mm inside flares without any problems, although that was for subs less powerful than yours.

I would guess that you'll be fine with your current setup.

Going for a PSP port would be more than what is needed, and you would probably find that their flare doesn't suit your existing tube.

Best of luck with your final assembly - I and no doubt many others are looking forward to hearing your comments about how it performs

Collo

Geez man, the project that will never end!! Lucky for us though, this is one of the best build-threads ever!!

Thanks for posting Rune! Awesome pics as always! :)

Geez man, the project that will never end!! Lucky for us though, this is one of the best build-threads ever!!

Thank you so very much! I've spent a fair amount of this project taking pictures and writing stuff. If I hadn't been doing that I'd probably be finished by now.

Or maybe not, as a building thread like this is extremely handy for getting all kinds of help, tips and answers.

Thanks for posting Rune! Awesome pics as always! :)

As for the pics. I should probably have been in the advertising business as I'm pretty good at making things look better than they really are... ;)

As for the pics. I should probably have been in the advertising business as I'm pretty good at making things look better than they really are...

Haha does that work on girlfriends as well?

As for the pics. I should probably have been in the advertising business as I'm pretty good at making things look better than they really are...

Haha does that work on girlfriends as well?

Sure, just look here:

Rune,

Just found your thread this evening and read it all the way through. So for me it's like you've made record time on these great sonosubs :D . I really enjoyed reading it and am greatful for all the detail you've provided. I hope to some day make my own sonosub and your thread has definitely given me some additional information for the build procedure. As the others have already stated, this is an awesome thread! :cool:

Great job,
Craigo

Rune,

Just found your thread this evening and read it all the way through. So for me it's like you've made record time on these great sonosubs :D . I really enjoyed reading it and am greatful for all the detail you've provided. I hope to some day make my own sonosub and your thread has definitely given me some additional information for the build procedure. As the others have already stated, this is an awesome thread! :cool:

Great job,
Craigo

Hehe - thanks man! :)

Comments like yours sure makes me want to upload more pictures!

-Rune

Hehe - thanks man! :)

Comments like yours sure makes me want to upload more pictures!

-Rune

Keep the pics coming, they're great!

I checked out your Norwegian thread as well, but unfortunately don't know much Norwegian. And what I do know, words like uff da :o , fatiman, krumcakka (spelling wrong I'm sure), wouldn't have been there anyway. Anyway, my ancestors are from Norway, and I live in an area on the west coast that was originally populated by Norwegian immigrants. :) Good to hear from folks from across the pond!

Craig

Keep the pics coming, they're great!

I checked out your Norwegian thread as well, but unfortunately don't know much Norwegian. And what I do know, words like uff da :o , fatiman, krumcakka (spelling wrong I'm sure), wouldn't have been there anyway. Anyway, my ancestors are from Norway, and I live in an area on the west coast that was originally populated by Norwegian immigrants. :) Good to hear from folks from across the pond!

Craig

Hehe, yeah there have been some "uff da"'s along this project too, but fortunately not too many ;)

This last picture shows how much I deserve this project to be a success. For about 3 years now this has been the sorry excuse for a subwoofer in my house:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_180.jpg

http://smiliesftw.com/x/smiley-rofl.gif http://smiliesftw.com/x/bowrofl.gif http://smiliesftw.com/x/inoutroflpuke.gif


dont feel bad Rune....that just means you will be even MORE impressed with your subs now!!! :)

ps- I had a Yamaha YST100 at one point so no worries

http://smiliesftw.com/x/smiley-rofl.gif http://smiliesftw.com/x/bowrofl.gif http://smiliesftw.com/x/inoutroflpuke.gif


dont feel bad Rune....that just means you will be even MORE impressed with your subs now!!! :)

I most certainly hope so :D

ps- I had a Yamaha YST100 at one point so no worries
I'm sure many of us started out with much less! Heck I remember picking up my first Kenwood 502? HTiB and adding the Sony WM-40. I thought I really had something with dual subs from the get go:D That lasted about a week or so until I stumbled upon a Forum.
It's a good thing I'm done with the routing. Anyway, I had to do some fixing:
If you wanted, you could round it over. It's a poor pic compared to yours,.. I do believe I only used a 1/4" round, but it does ease the edges.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/stevenn/100_2768.jpg

I'm sure many of us started out with much less! Heck I remember picking up my first Kenwood 502? HTiB and adding the Sony WM-40. I thought I really had something with dual subs from the get go:D That lasted about a week or so until I stumbled upon a Forum.

Well, the thing is that had plenty of sub bass before I got married and had children... That's why it hurt som much not having it anymore ;)

If you wanted, you could round it over. It's a poor pic compared to yours,.. I do believe I only used a 1/4" round, but it does ease the edges.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/stevenn/100_2768.jpg

Your bottom sure looks nice (hehe). My problem was the straight (circular) routing that I did before the rounding. It got a little uneven, and so did the rounding. But it was not much, and I think I prett much fixed it.

Your bottom sure looks nice (hehe). My problem was the straight (circular) routing that I did before the rounding. It got a little uneven, and so did the rounding. But it was not much, and I think I prett much fixed it.
lol...Ok I see where your coming from, I thought maybe it was just frayed. Anyway, routers are tricky.. no doubt about it. When do you think you'll be ready to fire one of those bad boys up? Any chance of getting acclimated to a single before you do the dual? I would be very interested in your impressions of a single before you go bottomless :)

Any chance of getting acclimated to a single before you do the dual? I would be very interested in your impressions of a single before you go bottomless
Though it would be immensely difficult to resist such a temptation, it would make for an interesting experiment.....

lol...Ok I see where your coming from, I thought maybe it was just frayed. Anyway, routers are tricky.. no doubt about it. When do you think you'll be ready to fire one of those bad boys up? Any chance of getting acclimated to a single before you do the dual? I would be very interested in your impressions of a single before you go bottomless :)

Acclimated? Like in just-use-one-in-your-home-theater-for-a-few-months?

I guess it's time to get out of the closet (although I'm sure I've mentioned it earlier in this never-ending thread...): I don't even have a home theater yet!

My home-theater-to-be is the room in the basement where I'm building my sonos. So to really test my babies I'll have to bring them around to a few other maniacs. So no change for any acclimatization - sorry.

One thing I can promise you. Their "baptism of fire" will be done around easter this year (when we have the HTF party (htfhome.com)).

But I guess testing them here and there could be interesting in itself. I really would prefer to test them out in my own house though... :(

Acclimated? Like in just-use-one-in-your-home-theater-for-a-few-months?
No I was thinking a week or so, maybe even just a few days? Whatever the circumstances, you have things figured out. :)

No I was thinking a week or so, maybe even just a few days? Whatever the circumstances, you have things figured out. :)

You can be sure of one thing: I would have done it if I it was possible. That's the least I could have done for you guys, after you've helped me so much with this project :)



Finally done with the feet after a layer of matte transparent spray varnish:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_204.jpg


Then some fine sanding before the spray painting of the bottoms:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_205.jpg

Here's the first one done:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_206.jpg

Almost a pity this paint will become matte when it dries...:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_207.jpg
(I'm thinking of the rounded part. The rest isn't that glossy, but since it's supposed to be matte I didn't bother having more paint on - and the can was empty anyway :p )

Making the PVC/pine transition as smooth as possible:
http://htfhome.com/2007/e4/e4_208.jpg

To be done:

- 1 or 2 layers of varnish on the bottom end caps
- Sand the PVC/pine part. Then prime it and paint it black
(this is the part normally hidden by the DIY-grille)
- Line the sonos
- Assemble top endcap, bottom endcap and sono ( :eek: )
- Screw on the drivers and the Speakon
- Yes, and dress the tubes with something

coming along very nice there Rune.