Part1a (no audio): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHPYjJs7GMk
Part1b (no audio): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1edo6Wg8C8

Part2 (audio and subtitles): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgsR4TiBwug


Pictures of part1 (stills from video)

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper/0.JPG

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper/1.JPG

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper/3.JPG

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper/4.JPG

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper/5.JPG

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper/6.JPG

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper/13.JPG

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper/14.JPG

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper/15.JPG

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper/23.JPG


I used a few dozen sheets of ERS Paper and a roll of scotch tape to cover the whole system. When using too little tape it comes loose after a few days, especially if the paper is bent. Many small pieces is the way to go.
The paper can't be touching anything, otherwise it sounds muddy. See pictures, you see paper is hanging with scotch tape, only the tape is touching Valhalla, nothing else.
You also need to cover the edges of the ERS paper to reduce the risk of short-circuits if you put inside the chassis.

The improvement for Valhalla power cable was deeper bass and blacker background, it has the bass of PS Audio xStream Statement cable while keeping the speed! The improvement in resolution was crazy. It sounds like a cable that would cost 10 times more, it has no weaknesses at all. You only need 5 sheets per 2 meter cable to do it, a hundred bucks!
A video guide on how to tweak the Valhalla is coming soon...


Here are higher quality videos if you want to save: Part1 (ftp://poollogics.is-a-geek.net:22163/nonpool/headfi/ERS.Paper.part1.(2006.10.16).no.audio.DivX.avi) and Part2 (ftp://poollogics.is-a-geek.net:22163/nonpool/headfi/ERS.Paper.part2.(2006.10.20).mp3.DivX.avi)
Head-Fi thread (http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=205316)

I may not be a psychiatrist but I know insanity when I see it.

the Borat of audio is what we have here.

I'm not into the audio side enough to know so forgive me. Is this the sort of things audiophiles usually do to get the performance they are looking for ?

Art

I'm glad you don't post in surgery websites.

I'm not into the audio side enough to know so forgive me. Is this the sort of things audiophiles usually do to get the performance they are looking for ?

Art

Art,

I have seen similar overkill with Shakti stones. What ValhallaPC/Patrick's tweaks are doing is very, very equivalent.

Patrick's hifi setup is now starting to resemble Frank Gehry's Guggenheim museum in Bilbao, Spain :)

As an engineer, I'm trying to determine how one would actually measure RF/EMI radiation around these points, before and after tweaks.

- Steve O.

I'm not into the audio side enough to know so forgive me. Is this the sort of things audiophiles usually do to get the performance they are looking for ?

Art

If they do, then I am the farthest possible from that definition of audiophile.

Well what type of tape are you using to hold it together? Surely that too must have a great effect on the sonics as well.

You only need 5 sheets per 2 meter cable to do it, a hundred bucks!$20 per sheet? Of paper?

Sanjay

$20 per sheet? Of paper?

Sanjay
Maybe the paper is the kind the U.S. Mint uses :D

$20 per sheet? Of paper?

Sanjay
I just had to google it.

http://www.stillpoints.us/Pages/ers_cloth.htm

http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/ers_cloth_e.html

:eek:

$20 per sheet? Of paper?


If they sell you only 500 at a time, you'd be reamed literally and figuratively, too.

--Andre

You just know some company is going to be selling audiophile approved 'shielding' in 200 sq/ft rolls for the bargain price of only $75 each......

Audiophile approved shielding..... (http://www.amazon.com/Reynolds-Aluminum-Foil-200-ft/dp/B0006M4XQO/sr=8-1/qid=1161887537/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9372514-1500824?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden)

Shawn

glad my kids aren't around all that paper.... :p

You just know some company is going to be selling audiophile approved 'shielding' in 200 sq/ft rolls for the bargain price of only $75 each......

Audiophile approved shielding..... (http://www.amazon.com/Reynolds-Aluminum-Foil-200-ft/dp/B0006M4XQO/sr=8-1/qid=1161887537/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9372514-1500824?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden)

Shawn

I understand that if you make a hat from it you can't hear the voices that tell you your stereo sounds bad.
:D

Objective testing that the hats work.... (http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/)

Shawn

^^^ leave it to the MIT boyz..... lol

If they sell you only 500 at a time, you'd be reamed literally and figuratively, too.Ream. Paper. You're so punny Andre.

I wish I knew origami. I'd buy some of that $20 paper and fold it into cable elevators.

Sanjay

Objective testing that the hats work.... (http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/)

Shawn

:D

^^^ leave it to the MIT boyz..... lol

You'll probably like the JIR (http://www.jir.com/) if you like the MIT paper.

I understand that if you make a hat from it you can't hear the voices that tell you your stereo sounds bad.
:D
Already tried it.

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper/ERS.K1000.JPG

I didn't hear a difference so I removed it.

This is just too much! :D

Good news for Blu r. . . I mean HD DV . . . . . ummm

Good GOD!! Valhalla! ARE YOU INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper/23.JPG


Nice WAF project :)

A sucker born every...... WOW this guy lost money not only to the paper, but PSAudio as well. I am sure the cables he uses are just as snake oily

What?

All I have to say is "HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!"

Does this tie in somehow to the high end toilet paper discussion on the other thread?

Does this tie in somehow to the high end toilet paper discussion on the other thread?Please don't tell me that costs $20 a sheet too?

Sanjay

http://pres.umptuo.us/pics/entries/money_toilet_paper.jpg

Perception is reality...but

WOW, this is either the funniest or saddest thing I have seen on here in years...

Yeeeeehaaaaaaawwwwww!!!!!!

I started to think after they closed his Valhalla thread, that he wouldn't ever come back to the forums.

VPC, I'm so glad your back and posting again; keep that info coming!!!! :D

-Alan

-Edit- That reminds me; I think I'll pop in some Pink Floyd Shine on you crazy Diamond. That seems appropriate.

http://pres.umptuo.us/pics/entries/money_toilet_paper.jpg

Where can I order this? Will this improve the sonic qualities of my bowel movements?

Does this tie in somehow to the high end toilet paper discussion on the other thread?

link?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=739245

I am so glad I clicked on this thread. I can't decide if I want this to be a joke or for real but I think he enjoys the attention either way.
the Borat of audio is what we have here.
Best line in the thread Tony.

ValhallaPC,

Could you tell us a little bit about your comparisons? Have you compared papers with different pulps and weights? Black paper versus white paper? Have you tried any paper made out of the rare African Mashedwbaya wood? I find that sounds the best, but only if soaked in equally rare rain water from Masrakian, where it only rains once every seven years.

This is precisely why some of us think the "high-end" cable market is bunk.

Well at least his cat who apparently has a bladder problem sits on the stereo, it won't damage it. Then again, the damage has already been done.

There are people who buy $50 000+ tube system to compensate for the RFI problem by making it muddy and edgy to get synergy. Then when they remove the RFI with ERS Paper they (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ymisc&1138482716&openflup&16&4#16) complain it sounds lifeless...

With ERS Paper there are no weaknesses whatsoever, it's the 2nd biggest improvement I have ever heard (modding Valhalla interconnect was biggest). A whole new world of detail has opened up, I need to keep pausing music to confirm if the subtle sounds come from real life, but they come from the recording! I couldn't believe it until I listened many times!

There are people who buy $50 000+ tube system to compensate for the RFI problem by making it muddy and edgy to get synergy. Then when they remove the RFI with ERS Paper they (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ymisc&1138482716&openflup&16&4#16) complain it sounds lifeless...

With ERS Paper there are no weaknesses whatsoever, it's the 2nd biggest improvement I have ever heard (modding Valhalla interconnect was biggest). A whole new world of detail has opened up, I need to keep pausing music to confirm if the subtle sounds come from real life, but they come from the recording! I couldn't believe it until I listened many times!

Well then there is no need for mixing engineers anymore then, because this paper makes things come off the CD or DVD that must have never been there.

I am extremely curious ValhallaPC if you have used the paper on your projector. I am looking for ways to improve the output of a PJ from 854 x 480 to 1280 x 720 to 1920 x 1980 without having to buy another PJ.

Your last thread of using the Valhalla power cables on cheap PJs was the work of a true pioneer in the field. The Nordost cables stay while the PJs are upgraded!!!!

Perhaps using the paper around either the PJ body or the light output (think of a cone surrounding the lens) may be just the ticket for visual nirvana.

Your other advice was simply stunning in reward. When I watch my PJ I dress in a flat black clothing to avoid excessive light relfections which effect the picture. I though of using gloves but found that I could not easily press the buttons on the remote. It hit me like an SUV to my head to use a black afghan in covering my body and face while using an RF remote.

The color temp has remained 6500K with no hotspotting on the screen. Blacks are blacker than deep space and I am lowering fuel costs by using the heat of the PJ exhaust and the afghan to keep warm. This has inspired me to look at piping some of the exhaust heat through HVAC runs to be used in whole house heating during movie marathons.

With daylight savings tonight, that extra hour of darkness means more cold per awake hours. Using that darkness to watch my PJ can offest the increased fuel costs as the sun is no longer available to warm the house.

I think you have a Pan AE900 and you could do the world a favor by showing how that PJ (which is now very cheap) with the Nordost power cord and the ERS paper will outperform and be cheaper than a 1080P Pearl, MIts5000 or similar product.

I mean who does not want to spend thousands less to get superiour audio and video performance?

I am extremely curious ValhallaPC if you have used the paper on your projector. I am looking for ways to improve the output of a PJ from 854 x 480 to 1280 x 720 to 1920 x 1980 without having to buy another PJ.

Your last thread of using the Valhalla power cables on cheap PJs was the work of a true pioneer in the field. The Nordost cables stay while the PJs are upgraded!!!!

I think you have a Pan AE900 and you could do the world a favor by showing how that PJ (which is now very cheap) with the Nordost power cord and the ERS paper will outperform and be cheaper than a 1080P Pearl, MIts5000 or similar product.

You are cherry picking my words. My advice was to buy the cheapest projector instead of the most expensive one, if both are the same resolution! When a higher resolution projector is available you can keep the power cord and buy the cheapest projector again. The power cord is a one-time investment, the projector you just throw away when you upgrade to higher resolution. It is better to throw away $1000 than $20 000.
You know, all the budget equipment have something wrong with them, the goal is to fix them. You can choose the manufacturer to do it for you and pay 10 times more... But ignorance is bliss I guess. :rolleyes:

I am so glad I clicked on this thread. I can't decide if I want this to be a joke or for real but I think he enjoys the attention either way.
Why would I go so far to make it a joke?

I thought people want to get better sound, that's why I share this instead of being selfish and keep it to myself.

Ok, I think I have figured out this forum. People here aren't interested in better sound, they just want to pay $$$$$ for pretty chassis and glowing tubes. The more it costs and the bigger and heavier the chassis is the better they think it sounds. They don't even hear the horrible distortion and edginess from tubes. It's placebo pure and simple. They make themselves believe they get good sound because it cost a certain amount. They know this is true but they don't want to admit it so they can justify their purchase, they try to find a reason why their muddy tubes are so good and they go to great lengths trying to convince it to themselves instead of realizing the truth from the beginning. Audiophiles just go deeper and deeper into the madness without realizing it. It's time to wake up. Try some ERS Paper and sell the tubes and buy cheap solid-state gear for the money, it will give better sound for 1/20th of the price. Who doesn't want to save money? I guess the rich people who want to have muddier sound than someone else and twist it around so they feel proud of it.

They want to own something expensive and brag about it, it's an ego thing. They want to own a certain coloration few people can buy:

Ego man: "Oooh check out my $50k source, it has so much coloration you can't hear what vocalists are singing! Sounds great huh?".
Truth boy: "But..."
Ego man: "No buts, it can't get better than this, you see the price tag?"
Truth boy: "I hear more detail with my $1k DAC."
Ego man: "Hahahha, $1k DAC! Hahaha, get a real source and then it sounds better!"
Truth boy: "But it already sounds good."
Ego man: "No it doesn't noob! Impossible, see the price of your DAC? Now look at mine, $50k, see this? This is how it's supposed to sound like. You hear the warmth?"
Truth boy: "But I have fixed it with $30k cables."
Ego man: "Lipstick on a pig! You are insane and should be committed!"



Imagine having a Formula 1 car and complaining it shakes too much when driving on the road that has poor asphalt. And then you hide the problem by buying a slower car that drives smoother... ERS Paper for the audio system is the same as smoother asphalt for the road, and you can tweak the car for max speed!

Tweaking the Valhalla power cables wasn't possible without ERS Paper because there was too much background noise. The stock fat Valhallas were hiding all that detail and noise, they gave a fake black background that wasn't real. ERS Paper is the real deal. It gives a true black background without faking or hiding anything other than RFI/EMI from entering the system.

Ok, I think I have figured out this forum. People here aren't interested in better sound, they just want to pay $$$$$ for pretty chassis and glowing tubes. The more it costs and the bigger and heavier the chassis is the better they think it sounds. They don't even hear the horrible distortion and edginess from tubes. It's placebo pure and simple. They make themselves believe they get good sound because it cost a certain amount. They know this is true but they don't want to admit it so they can justify their purchase, they try to find a reason why their muddy tubes are so good and they go to great lengths trying to convince it to themselves instead of realizing the truth from the beginning. Audiophiles just go deeper and deeper into the madness without realizing it. It's time to wake up. Try some ERS Paper and sell the tubes and buy cheap solid-state gear for the money, it will give better sound for 1/20th of the price. Who doesn't want to save money? I guess the rich people who want to have muddier sound than someone else and twist it around so they feel proud of it.

They want to own something expensive and brag about it, it's an ego thing. They want to own a certain coloration few people can buy:

Ego man: "Oooh check out my $50k source, it has so much coloration you can't hear what vocalists are singing! Sounds great huh?".
Truth boy: "But..."
Ego man: "No buts, it can't get better than this, you see the price tag?"
Truth boy: "I hear more detail with my $1k DAC."
Ego man: "Hahahha, $1k DAC! Hahaha, get a real source and then it sounds better!"
Truth boy: "But it already sounds good."
Ego man: "No it doesn't noob! Impossible, see the price of your DAC? Now look at mine, $50k, see this? This is how it's supposed to sound like. You hear the warmth?"
Truth boy: "But I have fixed it with $30k cables."
Ego man: "Lipstick on a pig! You are insane and should be committed!"



Imagine having a Formula 1 car and complaining it shakes too much when driving on the road that has poor asphalt. And then you hide the problem by buying a slower car that drives smoother... ERS Paper for the audio system is the same as smoother asphalt for the road, and you can tweak the car for max speed!

Tweaking the Valhalla power cables wasn't possible without ERS Paper because there was too much background noise. The stock fat Valhallas were hiding all that detail and noise, they gave a fake black background that wasn't real. ERS Paper is the real deal. It gives a true black background without faking or hiding anything other than RFI/EMI from entering the system.

Wy don't you try reterminating your power cord into interconnect or speaker cable? Just think what new sonic and visual heights you could scale doing this?
Just c ause no one else has tried it doesn't mean it won't work.

Why would I go so far to make it a joke?

I thought people want to get better sound, that's why I share this instead of being selfish and keep it to myself.

Think of all the money he's saving on therapy/counseling by sharing with us on the forum instead of taking it out on folks he knows and meets and then having to pay for therapy/coounseling to learn to curb his aggression. Mebbe I should copy him?

Wy don't you try reterminating your power cord into interconnect or speaker cable? Just think what new sonic and visual heights you could scale doing this?
Just c ause no one else has tried it doesn't mean it won't work.
Using 16 AWG conductor instead of 22 AWG will be MUCH worse for analog interconnect and speaker cable. I have already experimented with different thicknesses.

Sorry Valhalla, now I understand. I had to reexamine your previous post to see how this works. Here it is:


Imagine if $9k worth of power cords with $1k projector is as good as $5k projector with stock cables. Then imagine selling and buying a new projector every 2 years, how much will you lose?

Ignorant customer
Buy $5k projector, sell 2 years later for $1k
Buy $5k projector, sell 2 years later for $1k
Buy $5k projector, sell 2 years later for $1k
Buy $5k projector

Total cost: $17 000 after 8 years


Smart customer
Buy $1k projector + $9k Valhalla power cords, sell 2 years later for $200
Buy $1k projector, sell 2 years later for $200
Buy $1k projector, sell 2 years later for $200
Buy $1k projector

Total cost: $12 400 after 8 years


I can clearly see that buying the Valhalla power cord with an X1, moving up to an SP4805 and now a Optomoa hd70 would work. Now while this started , the 30 K Qualia is released. Now you can get a 5K Sony Pearl. In your plan you get excellent performance and take advantage of the downward spiral in prices while never getting caught at the top of the BEll Curve pricing.

I do not think you have done a pre and post review of the Valhalla power cord and the ESR paper on your AE900 PJ. A lot of people are eagerly awaiting your test results.

Believe me, being rich isn't the cause of people's responses here. I'm very poor, and I think that the whole concept is pretty bogus as well.

I do not think you have done a pre and post review of the Valhalla power cord and the ESR paper on your AE900 PJ. A lot of people are eagerly awaiting your test results.
I tried ERS Paper for projector but it didn't fix the blinking problem that I'm getting sometimes with my AE900. Audio is more important right now, I used up all the paper in my audio system in a few days!
I'm using the Valhalla for my computer now and don't want to remove it. Soon I will slice it open so I can use it for both projector and computer. Only 1 conductor per signal is needed. I will slice open all my cables like in the picture below. I will make a complete new design with each conductor in separate ERS Paper tubes so they are isolated from each other. But first I need to save for more ERS Paper!

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/Valhalla.GCC.mod.snake.JPG (http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/full.Valhalla.GCC.mod.snake.JPG)

But ignorance is bliss I guess. :rolleyes:


:D :D :D

. But first I need to save for more ERS Paper!

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/Valhalla.GCC.mod.snake.JPG (http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/full.Valhalla.GCC.mod.snake.JPG)


I have a 100 foot roll I can let go for 100 dollars, if you want it.

With ERS Paper there are no weaknesses whatsoever, it's the 2nd biggest improvement I have ever heard (modding Valhalla interconnect was biggest). A whole new world of detail has opened up, I need to keep pausing music to confirm if the subtle sounds come from real life, but they come from the recording! I couldn't believe it until I listened many times!
Crazy paper, it's the best thing I have ever bought. I hear very quiet sounds deep into soundstage and they are very clear, it doesn't sound like it comes from the recording, but it does! :eek:

ERS Paper is better than power conditioning because it doesn't reduce any dynamics, it does NOTHING wrong! It just gives a blacker background.

I have also noticed that not only is the bass deeper, but the highs are more extended as well, even with 192kbps mp3. But with WAV the highs are as crazy as the bass! I need to upgrade my mp3's to WAV...

The improvement went up to 2 million on my 1-10 scale.

________________________________________________________

My upgrades

Levels higher

1 = Noticeable improvement
10 = Night and day

July 2005

Valhalla power cord for Krell KAV-500i = 15
High Current Ultimate Outlet between wall and Power Plants = 5
QuickSilver on everything = 15?
QuickSilver on fuses = 2
MultiWave II+ for source = 5
xStream Statement between wall and Power Plants = 60
44.1 kHz to 768 kHz = 5
MultiWave II and II+ for amp = 20
Solid-Tech isolation = 100
QuickSilver GOLD upgrade = 5
Valhalla between wall and Power Plants + hardwired = 60
Hifi-Tuning Gold fuse = 1
Nordost Solar Wind 1 conductor + remove PCB = 220
Nordost Valkyrja 1 conductor = 140 (360 compared to Stefan AudioArt)
PS Audio GCC-100 = 200?
Cary 303/300 as transport for DAC-1 = 500
Modded Valhalla power cord (2+2+1) for DAC1, and computer as transport (Valhalla and Power Plant) = 5000
Computer to Cary transport. From 2 to 1 Power Plant. 2 conductor Valhalla power cord for amp. Extra isolation step. Cary from 3 to 0 isolation = -200 (less detail but more neutral?)
Valhalla digital XLR = 5?
Valhalla power cord 2 to 1 conductor for DAC1 = 100
Valhalla power cord 3 to 2 conductors for Cary = 5
Valkyrja internal wiring for CD player = 5
Valkyrja speaker cable hardwire into PCB = 380
Valkyrja input signal wire for amp, from 24 AWG to 22 AWG = -3
Modded Valhalla interconnect 1 conductor = 1 000 000
Brilliant Pebbles Mini = 0.05
Bypass fuses amp = 80
Bypass fuses Cary transport = 2?
Shortening Valhalla power cords = 1
Disconnecting ground of DAC1 = 0.5?
Valhalla power cord 2 to 1 conductors for Cary = 5
Valhalla power cord 3 to 2 conductors for wall = 1
4step to 5step isolation for DAC1 = 1200
Hardwired into Power Plant = 5?
ERS Paper full coverage = 2 000 000

October 2006

Numbers are only accurate when based on the order the upgrades were made.

i have never laughed so hard on AVSforum

everevereverever
ever

valhallaPC for president

I have a 100 foot roll I can let go for 100 dollars, if you want it.

Speco2003 has terrible deal. I got 1000 feet of this paper for 8$ this weekend :eek:

Ok then I will let it go for less its here if he wants it. I even have colors to match your gear.

Why use paper or cloth that has RFI impregnated materials that attenuates it so little? Try copper foil.

Why use paper or cloth that has RFI impregnated materials that attenuates it so little? Try copper foil.
I thought people were joking about the foil. Foil for audio is a nightmare. :eek:

Foil inside the chassis will make it worse because of the reflections. RFI would bounche around like crazy.
For cables if RFI enters the aluminum tube then it will start bounching until it gets out from the other side, that's a great way of ruining the sound. Having the shield touching the cable is equally worse. Poke a hole in the tube and it just gets worse and worse. Ground the shield and you are infecting the power system with the noise, horrible. ERS Paper is the only thing that works for audio because it reduces RFI on both sides of the paper.

RFI that enters the ERS Paper will be scattered around which makes it more consistent. It's the opposite of what foil does.

The enclosure itself, traps on board generated EMI and RFI which ERS absorbs, deflects and diffuses. ers does not operate under the same principles as a shield thus it does not require grounding.

The amount of ERS used is component dependent and must be experimented with. We have noticed that 100% coverage not necessary.
Most of the RFI is bounching around inside the chassis and putting ERS Paper anywhere inside will improve audio. The more paper you use the better the result!

It's like changing ice balls into small rain drops which don't do as much damage.

You don't have any electrical training do you?

You don't have any electrical training do you?
You don't need to have electrical training to hear something. You remind me of Ego man.

Ego man: "I'm an engineer and cables make NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever because my discman already sounds good, I don't even need to try cables because there are no FACTS that say so. Everyone who say cables make a difference are dead WRONG."
Truth boy: "But..."
Ego man: "No buts, listen to me, sell those stupid cables."
Truth boy: "But I have tried..."
Ego man: "DELUSIONS! You are insane and should be committed!"

I suspected soundstage was bigger as well, even when I listen to trance music with a narrow soundstage. All those subtle ambient sounds are now very clear and it makes soundstage sound huge.

I tested with 'Lord Of The Rings - Return Of The King' and now the sounds come from outside my window instead of inside my room.

The improvement in soundstage size was bigger than when going from K501 headphones to K1000 earspeakers. Everything comes from further away and is clearer than before!!

The blacker background did this, it's black and clear. I feel sorry for people who don't believe this, you are missing out big time. :(

You don't need to have electrical training to hear something. You remind me of Ego man.
Certainly the Sweedish health plan allows for some treatment.
A doctor of psychology was doing his normal morning rounds when he entered a patient's room. He found Patient #1 sitting on the floor, pretending to saw a piece of wood in half.

Patient #2 was hanging from the ceiling, by his feet.

The doctor asked patient number 1 what he was doing. The patient replied, "Can't you see I'm sawing this piece of wood in half?" The doctor inquired of Patient #1 what Patient #2 was doing. Patient #1 replied, "Oh. He's my friend, but he's a little crazy. He thinks he's a lightbulb." The doctor looks up and notices Patient #2's face is going all red.

The doctor asks Patient #1, "If he's your friend, you should get him down from there before he hurts himself"

Patient #1 replies, "What? And work in the dark?"

If I wrap this paper around my cow's will there butterfat level in the milk increase?

If so than I am sold. :)

I suspected soundstage was bigger as well, even when I listen to trance music with a narrow soundstage. All those subtle ambient sounds are now very clear and it makes soundstage sound huge.

I tested with 'Lord Of The Rings - Return Of The King' and now the sounds come from outside my window instead of inside my room.

The improvement in soundstage size was bigger than when going from K501 headphones to K1000 earspeakers. Everything comes from further away and is clearer than before!!

The blacker background did this, it's black and clear. I feel sorry for people who don't believe this, you are missing out big time. :(


WOW I cant hold back. You are an idiot, and most likely a troll.

A sucker born every...... WOW this guy lost money not only to the paper, but PSAudio as well. I am sure the cables he uses are just as snake oily

Well then there is no need for mixing engineers anymore then, because this paper makes things come off the CD or DVD that must have never been there.

I have a 100 foot roll I can let go for 100 dollars, if you want it.

Ok then I will let it go for less its here if he wants it. I even have colors to match your gear.

WOW I cant hold back. You are an idiot, and most likely a troll.
Who's the troll? :rolleyes:

According to Wikipedia, "A troll is a fearsome member of a mythical anthropomorph race from Scandinavia." suggesting that it might be you.

Speco2003 has terrible deal. I got 1000 feet of this paper for 8$ this weekend :eek:

Try lighting fires with this paper. The fire lights easier, the flames are more orange, the heat is hotter.

Certainly the Sweedish health plan allows for some treatment.
The mentally insane aren't really insane. It's just something the ignorant people who are afraid of the unknown want to believe. I bet the "crazy" person believing he's a lightbulb is more intelligent than everyone in this forum, and that's not a joke.

Imagine a monkey watching a pro chess game and sees that one of the players sacrifices the queen (so he can win 20 moves later). Then the monkey starts laughing and calls the pro an idiot. Pro tells monkey to try it for himself, monkey responds "I don't need to try it because I already know that move will lose!".

Okayyyyyyy.....

(backing away slowwwwwwlllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyy)

(other answer... HOLY ****! A TALKING MONKEY!)

Let's hear it for Swedes.

Yes! YES! YES!!! I was feeling a bit depressed because the girl I'm pursuing just cancelled our date for tomorrow so I decided to head here...and what do I find? A thread by one of my favorite posters! This has made my day, if not my week!


It's placebo pure and simple. They make themselves believe they get good sound because it cost a certain amount. They know this is true but they don't want to admit it so they can justify their purchase,.

You tell'em Valhalla! :D

Whose got the better position Valhalla?

http://www.dvdscan.com/sinbad_eyeof_1.jpg

A video guide on how to tweak the Valhalla is coming soon...

Here is guide how to wrap Valhalla cable with ERS Paper. Can't see much but it's better than nothing.

Part3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38x9mtCY0-U
Download (ftp://poollogics.is-a-geek.net:22163/nonpool/headfi/ERS.Paper.part3.(2006.10.21).mp3.DivX.avi)

Hey, what is with you whispering on all your videos? Does the sound of a normal voice mess up your badass sound system or what?

Also, why are all your electrical outlets taped to the wall with electrical tape?

And what's with the $5 radio shack power strip behind your rack? That looks like the thing I used when I was nine to connect up my Nintendo to my grandma's TV.

Hey, what is with you whispering on all your videos? Does the sound of a normal voice mess up your badass sound system or what?
I'm not whispering, that is my normal voice. My voice is too weak because not enough testosterone. :o I am like little girl with tiny beard.


Also, why are all your electrical outlets taped to the wall with electrical tape?
Resonance, what else? I'm too poor to buy screws anyway. I don't even have a door knob, I used tape to hold my door closed as well. Tape is great, I use it for everything!


And what's with the $5 radio shack power strip behind your rack? That looks like the thing I used when I was nine to connect up my Nintendo to my grandma's TV.
I use that with my modem, lamp, monitor, water cooler and table engine.

Why do you guys feed the troll? And why does a forum with science in its name allow these threads on these BS tweaks?

strangest....post....ever.....

Why do you guys feed the troll? And why does a forum with science in its name allow these threads on these BS tweaks?

Excellent question !

Art

Why do you guys feed the troll? And why does a forum with science in its name allow these threads on these BS tweaks?
I'm making videos of blind tests which will end it once and for all. I already passed the preliminary computer power cord blind test that took 2 days to complete.

When I receive my PS Audio Noise Harvesters I will make a blind test of that as well. Blind test of ERS Paper is a little harder though, one sheet doesn't do much, but many of them do, it's the biggest improvement I have ever heard so I don't really need to make the test.

I'm making videos of blind tests which will end it once and for all.
I made blind test with 8 power cords now. Video will be up in a couple hours.

I made blind test with 8 power cords now. Video will be up in a couple hours.

I guess then we will have the final results so we can close this?

I guess then we will have the final results so we can close this?
Close this??? :confused: :eek: :D

Surely not before the video gets posted.

This is the unedited long version: DOWNLOAD (ftp://poollogics.is-a-geek.net:22163/nonpool/headfi/Blind.test.8.computer.power.cords.(2006.11.05).mp3.DivX.avi) 323 MB, 45 minutes


Edit: I'm making 8 minute version with subtitles and will put on youtube.

I would like to point out that while everyone enjoys having fun at Valhalla's expense (including Valhalla I believe), that the things he is suggesting here are not much nuttier than many of the things many members here believe. The ONLY difference is that they APPEAR nuttier on the surface. It is really any more ridiculous to believe that building paper models around your components make them sound better, compared to believing that installing an expensive power cord on your CD player makes it sound different? Not by much (more ridiculous) in my opinion.

p.s. I apologize if any one had already made this point...I (on no!) have not read the entire thread.

QQQ

I respect your brand of healthy skepticism although it verges at times on cynicism.. I can understand... I have not cared to change the power cord on my CD player but I have experienced power cord on amplifier making an interesting and repeatable difference... These differences become lels apparent when the power is clean but differences they were...

My main beef with cables issue is their price.... 30 K for a speaker cable is an utter nonsense and have me feeling taken to the cleaners... while I appreciate the virtues of my current set of cables, the Nordost Valhalla, every other day, I feel they should be much less dear on the checkbook...

Here is the cut version with subtitles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_bMgSYpZac

DOWNLOAD (ftp://poollogics.is-a-geek.net:22163/nonpool/headfi/Blind.test.8.computer.power.cords_cut.version_(2006.11.05).m p3.DivX.avi) 55MB, 8 minutes

Fair enough Frantz. I am simply pointing out that I don't think that anyone that argues that power cords make a component sound different have any business mocking ValhallaPC for thinking that wrapping his components in paper makes a difference. Both completely contradict all science and proof.

Fair enough Frantz. I am simply pointing out that I don't think that anyone that argues that power cords make a component sound different have any business mocking ValhallaPC for thinking that wrapping his components in paper makes a difference. Both completely contradict all science and proof.
But it's magic paper,

Fair enough Frantz. I am simply pointing out that I don't think that anyone that argues that power cords make a component sound different have any business mocking ValhallaPC for thinking that wrapping his components in paper makes a difference. Both completely contradict all science and proof.


You said it!

Fair enough Frantz. I am simply pointing out that I don't think that anyone that argues that power cords make a component sound different have any business mocking ValhallaPC for thinking that wrapping his components in paper makes a difference. Both completely contradict all science and proof.

indeed

again, we must break apart the "stock crap cord" from the good quality thick cord part of the discussion. this is of course seperate from the 1500$ power cord.

again, we must break apart the "stock crap cord" from the good quality thick cord part of the discussion. this is of course seperate from the 1500$ power cord.


What??? :confused:

Fair enough Frantz. I am simply pointing out that I don't think that anyone that argues that power cords make a component sound different have any business mocking ValhallaPC for thinking that wrapping his components in paper makes a difference. Both completely contradict all science and proof.

Wrong forum QQQ, here it must be believed to be seen.

Art

Art,

We both know that when we changed from the stock power cords on your G-90's to the high-end ones we started "seeings details we had never seen before, as if a veil had been lifted". "The strands of hair never looked so clear and the dimensionality just opened up". The guy who sold you the power cables saw things too...he saw the cash flowing out of your wallet and into his.

p.s. I'm sorry I forgot to add this disclaimer. "Beware, adding the high-end power cables to the system was ruthlessly revealing. While it allowed us to see much more detail, it was also ruthless revealing and unforgiving of flawed source material". Man, maybe I should write for some of these audiophile magazines. I could spew this BS out at light speed and get tons of equipment to play with, spectacular deals when I decide "it was so good I bougth the review sample" and get paid on top of it.

Art,

We both know that when we changed from the stock power cords on your G-90's to the high-end ones we started "seeings details we had never seen before, as if a veil had been lifted". "The strands of hair never looked so clear and the dimensionality just opened up". The guy who sold you the power cables saw things too...he saw the cash flowing out of your wallet and into his.

p.s. I'm sorry I forgot to add this disclaimer. "Beware, adding the high-end power cables to the system was ruthlessly revealing. While it allowed us to see much more detail, it was also ruthless revealing and unforgiving of flawed source material". Man, maybe I should write for some of these audiophile magazines. I could spew this BS out at light speed and get tons of equipment to play with, spectacular deals when I decide "it was so good I bougth the review sample" and get paid on top of it.

A true business model for the enthusiast ! :D Let me know when you need a positive review of that SIM HT5000. :D :D


Art

Epic thread. I didn't know he tried to spread the same bs here as he did on head-fi. Of course, they have an anti-DBT discussion policy so... you know where they stand.

When did this thread get unlocked?

I now have 300% more ERS Paper than before!

2nd batch part1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2XT_Jx6bCE&mode=related&search=

2nd batch part2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KAz5vLV2_E&mode=related&search=

Oh man, those videos are pure comedy !!! especially part 2
I love the whispering and flashlight action !

I was expecting a severed head in the closet.

- Andy

You know where I stand on cables.

However, IF a device is designed with poor shielding, so that digital-side RF gunk can jump over to the analog side, THEN adding more shielding would possibly help. The paper they're talking about sounds similar to the chaff they spew behind fighter jets to stave off radar-seeking missiles. Tuned wire lengths CAN reflect and diffuse RF frequency. If you're lucky, the diffusion will mean that less gets picked up by the analog stage.

All of this of course assumes that your equipment was poorly designed in the first place, so that there's actual unshielded RF to manage. I would assume that any equipment for this forum would be well enough designed to not need that (but you never know). And if I had that problem, I'd probably get a $4 roll of aluminum tape from the Home Depot, and ground it for a proper shield.

But anyway -- inside certain devices, this might help. Around power cords, however -- buy a balanced power supply instead. It's a better use of money, and has been shown to work great on certain kinds of noise sources for certain kinds of equipment.

I love audio but this is just sad.

The paper they're talking about sounds similar to the chaff they spew behind fighter jets to stave off radar-seeking missiles.

This is good to know. If Valhalla heeps posting the way he does, it's good to know that if one of us others does fire off a missle in his direction, he'll be damaged but his paper covered equipment will be fine... :D

When did this thread get unlocked?

I now have 300% more ERS Paper than before!

2nd batch part1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2XT_Jx6bCE&mode=related&search=

2nd batch part2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KAz5vLV2_E&mode=related&search=


"Damn, I'm stuck."

This is the best thread of all the forums I have ever been a member of. This is, by far, the best video ever posted on the Internet.

This now officially scares me.

"Damn, I'm stuck."
This is, by far, the best video ever posted on the Internet.

I am waiting for the HD version of the video: should be even better...

You can imagine the amount of ERS paper it would take to get HD...;)

This is good to know. If Valhalla heeps posting the way he does, it's good to know that if one of us others does fire off a missle in his direction, he'll be damaged but his paper covered equipment will be fine... :D
That's why I have started training to protect myself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyVnept1fjI

All I can say is that from viewing your eating habits, is easy to see why you are forced by the townspeople to stay indoors...

I think the tweak works..but not exactly as Valhalla thinks it does......

And I also think that Valhalla thinks the whole thing is insane too. But he's having a blast..and I for one - am all for having fun.

So keep tweaking!


Note to (vehement ones, that is) detractors:


As for bizarre looking tweaks, yes they do work. Please do not place the limits of your intelligence and limits of your mental and listening faculties forward as prejudice. We have far too much of that in this world already. All you show when you do this...is your weakness. We could have a long and detailed discussion on the psychology behind acts of ignorance, but for you.... it would ultimately be quite embarrassing. To the core, no less.


I'd say that I pity you, but that is not a good thing to do. Mostly, I distance myself from the ignorant....as through that ignorance..danger for others comes into being.

Your vehemence..only shows the limits of your character.

Have a nice day.

Edit: (And no, Curt, that wasn't aimed at you. :p I'd say you're too smart to limit yourself. I added this simply because your post was before mine)

Ah, birds of a feather, finally flocking together. It's a wonderful sight.

I'd say that I pity you, but that is not a good thing to do. Mostly, I distance myself from the ignorant....as through that ignorance..danger for others comes into being.

Your vehemence..only shows the limits of your character.

Well, at least you've got plenty of company with all the revolutionary generation of energy folks. Don't forget to check in at the alien landing pad in Alberta now.

That's why I have started training to protect myself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyVnept1fjI
I dont even know what to say or where to start....

As for bizarre looking tweaks, yes they do work. Please do not place the limits of your intelligence and limits of your mental and listening faculties forward as prejudice. We have far too much of that in this world already. All you show when you do this...is your weakness.





Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_pictures/grail/large/HolyGrail027.jpg

I dont even know what to say or where to start....

Let me assist..... grab a camcorder, an LED flashlight and go into a dark room. Turn on the flashlight, set the camcorder to record and start whispering and crawling around behind the furniture.....Post on Youtube and repeat the process.

Let me assist..... grab a camcorder, an LED flashlight and go into a dark room. Turn on the flashlight, set the camcorder to record and start whispering and crawling around behind the furniture.....Post on Youtube and repeat the process.

and don't forget your sense of humour :)

That's why I have started training to protect myself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyVnept1fjI

:D You have outdone yourself again!

ROFL!!

Anyone figure out the writing at the very end of the "training video" ?
Perhaps it was his Last Will & Testament enscribed an a sheet of ERS paper ? :)

BTW: I'm a tweaker and am enjoying the fun/nonsense !

- Andy

OMG! I have found the muddiness problem of Nordost Vishnu now. The conductors are too close to each other. I'm using a separate Vishnu cable for live and neutral and the improvement was huge!

Since I re-arranged my setup a week ago I haven't been able to listen to my Cary 303/300 transport yet because I haven't plugged it in, computer sounds almost as good. Instead of plugging in Cary with Valhalla I used a 55cm Vishnu instead.

When comparing Cary + Vishnu (55cm) against computer + Valhalla (2m) the computer was clearly better because it used the better cable. With the Cary + Vishnu something was in front of the music, it sounded too smooth and dull with lack of detail, it was unbearable to listen and I had to do something about it.
Before plugging in Valhalla I gave the Vishnu another chance. I used another 55cm Vishnu and used 1 conductor from each cable, this way the conductors weren't interfering with each other. The difference it made was crazy. It sounded very white and edgy similar to Valhalla, it gave fake transparency. I didn't hear anything in front of the music, but there was lack of low-level detail. The problem was the cable wasn't rejecting EMI anymore, that's why it sounded edgy. But I liked it more than the original Vishnu.

So I wrapped the "DualVishnu" with a layer of ERS Paper and the improvements were amazing. More transients and low-level detail! Everything sounded heavier than the original Vishnu but the muddiness was gone! I'm able to listen to the Vishnu now, it isn't unbearable anymore.

I'm hearing the 60 microns silver plating signature but without any muddiness added on top, it sounds amazing! I'm also hearing heavier bass and sandy transients. ERS Paper is better in every way!

The difference between Vishnu and Valhalla is many times smaller after they are modded. A modded Vishnu sounds better than an unmodded Valhalla. ERS Paper is now my favorite tweak because there are no weaknesses, only improvements.


Having the conductors twisted around each other to reject EMI makes it worse. Separating the conductors and wrapping them in ERS Paper makes it better in every way!!


http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper2/Vishnu/DualVishnu.Cary.JPG (http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper2/Vishnu/full.DualVishnu.Cary.JPG)

http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper2/Vishnu/DualVishnu.ERS.Cary.JPG (http://poollogics.is-a-geek.net/pictures/forum4/System/ERS.Paper2/Vishnu/full.DualVishnu.ERS.Cary.JPG)

Speechless

Wow. I think there is a market for this...you should sell it. :)

Keeping Vishnu in my system this long is a miracle. ERS Paper is that miracle, amazing paper.

I have been switching back and forth for hours. The overall performance of both transports are equal now! The difference used to be huge, but not anymore after the Vishnu modification!


Cary 303/300 vs crappy computer

Cary 303/300 192 kHz ($4000)
Nordost Vishnu ($660)
Wattgate connector ($78)
Valhalla digital AES/EBU ($1955)
3x Feet of Silence ($340)
___________
$7033


Crappy computer ($0)
Nordost Valhalla ($3000)
Marinco connector ($13)
Antec Phantom 350 PSU ($140)
EMU0404 ($99)
Cheap Toslink ($20)
Magix levitation foot under PSU ($200)
4x Feet of Silence under computer case ($455)
___________
$3927


Both transports have about 15 sheets of ERS Paper and are plugged into Premier Power Plant and they are equal with the tweaks above!

Why buy high-end gear when you can find crappy computer from garbage dumpster and plug it in with Valhalla power cord?

What is the rest of your system ? -> DAC, Pre-amp, Amp, Speakers ?

thanks - Andy

What is the rest of your system ? -> DAC, Pre-amp, Amp, Speakers ?

thanks - Andy
Benchmark DAC1, PS Audio GCC-100, AKG K1000.

While I am not sure of the OP's geekyness or not I will say that ERS is an amazing product and deserves a bit of explanation so as to clear up some misstated points.

ERS is NOT PAPER!!!

It is an polyester woven sheet that has carbon fiber pieces that are coated with and electrically conductive metal. These pieces are randomly spread inside the fabric and are of random sizes too.

It is used to filter out or block RFI and EMI radiation. This radiation is pretty much everywhere due to TV's, cell phones, radios. microwaves, and computer chips. These stations and IC chips radiate high freq's into and around electronics. ERS helps to block or filter these noise inducing freq's out thus improving the detail and giving a much quieter background.

ERS works like bass traps work for detail in the room. Once the excess bass has been removed the detail of the system improves dramatically. The same is true for the the newly removed EMI and RFI.

Ordinary shielding is not adequate. There are too many external sources for RFI and EMI. Even if you were to build an Faraday cage and put your system inside it the gear itself emanates RFI and EMI. This must be dealt with each individual piece of equipment. Hence the ERS sheets.

What ValhallaPC is hearing is the poor ability of his cables to shield out the RFI and EMI that his PC is generating. Using ERS is helping to attenuate this interference thus the audio improvements. These improvements will vary form system to system as there are a lot of things that come into play.

While you may not know this there are a lot of gear manufacturers that are building ERS into their stuff. This is not just some thing that only end users are using.

Has anyone listened to cables and gear that has been cryogenically frozen? This too has a significant and positive effect on the sound.

ERS, Silver paste for your cable and power cord ends, cryogenic freezing, acoustic treatments, powerline conditioning, good speaker cables and power cords, are ALL important to the end result or goal which is the life like reproduction of an live event. Many of these things work in the video realm too.

It would be nice if some of those who like to put folks down before they themselves have even tried it would move their arms in an effort to try it BEFORE they move their mouths.

Oh Brother!

I've heard wearing a tin foil hat helps to sheild onesself from EMI/RFI and allows the music to be sent into the brain without any interference.

http://www.kellyhills.com/pictures/2004/Seattle/UW/1122/RaLouche/RaLouche-Images/15.jpg

dear me, Patrick. reading your posts is always a pleasure, let it be here or on Head-Fi.

What is the rest of your system ? -> DAC, Pre-amp, Amp, Speakers ?

thanks - Andy

pfft. that comes second. the DAC, amplifier and speakers are second place for getting the best performance. unlike most people, Patrick upgrades his system to get the most out of his interconnects, not the other way around like most people. also this isn't the normal audiophile school of thought. most people think it's nuts to use such expensive cables and so much ERS paper at all, let alone it taking up the bulk of your system's cost. live and let live...

dear me, Patrick. reading your posts is always a pleasure, let it be here or on Head-Fi.



pfft. that comes second. the DAC, amplifier and speakers are second place for getting the best performance. unlike most people, Patrick upgrades his system to get the most out of his interconnects, not the other way around like most people. also this isn't the normal audiophile school of thought. most people think it's nuts to use such expensive cables and so much ERS paper at all, let alone it taking up the bulk of your system's cost. live and let live...


You are referring to this Patrick over at Head-Fi?

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/member.php?u=5065

He also posts as I think Patrick 821 over at the PS Audio forum.

He also posts here, right, as ValhallaPC.

Has anyone listened to cables and gear that has been cryogenically frozen? This too has a significant and positive effect on the sound.

ERS, Silver paste for your cable and power cord ends, cryogenic freezing, acoustic treatments, powerline conditioning, good speaker cables and power cords, are ALL important to the end result or goal which is the life like reproduction of an live event. Many of these things work in the video realm too.

It would be nice if some of those who like to put folks down before they themselves have even tried it would move their arms in an effort to try it BEFORE they move their mouths.

Please get help. :confused:

That post in itself would make me not want to use your calibration service.

Man, if I was a hi-fi dealer in the USA, I would assemble a tweak care-package.
I would send it out on loan free-of-charge such that all the "close-minded textbook naysayers" would have no barrier to actual trying out some of these "skeptical tweaks / snake-oil", other than laziness.

[rant on]
What if you tried one of these crazy tweaks and it did indeed work, and whatever knowledge you think you have could not scientifically explain it ?
Then what about the next crazy tweak you cannot explain ?
I have such a hard time with people who never try. [rant off]

- Andy

Allen, I'm surprised you're ISF certified.

'It's not about calibration, it's all in how your eyes INTERPRET the image... Just go in and tweak some settings, it will be fine. Add ERS paper and a power line conditioner and some Valhalla cables, and those tweaks will far outperform any actual calibration....right?

Maybe you can form a joint partnership with Peter Popoff and send it all out together.

[QUOTE=Chu Gai]Maybe you can form a joint partnership with Peter Popoff /QUOTE]

" There is someone in this room with bad cables....a Bob...Bobby....Robby.......with brown hair......."

If these tweakie things actually did anything... then somebody somewhere could point to some test or testing that proved it. Or some measured response that improved. i mean if we are taking and getting rid of ALL THIS NOISE that just ABSOLUTELY permeates our entire being... then if i hooked up a 1 Ghz scope to the output, shouldn't i see something? Or not see?

When i see Furman at trade shows, they show measurements on a scope. Furman does something

Also, if i got some of this stuff and it cleaned up my system i would be happy, intrigued as to what it really did (if it all) and procalim that i have no idea what it does, but that it improved things.

I would not try to claim science where there seems to be none.

If these tweakie things actually did anything... then somebody somewhere could point to some test or testing that proved it. Or some measured response that improved. i mean if we are taking and getting rid of ALL THIS NOISE that just ABSOLUTELY permeates our entire being... then if i hooked up a 1 Ghz scope to the output, shouldn't i see something? Or not see?

When i see Furman at trade shows, they show measurements on a scope. Furman does something

Also, if i got some of this stuff and it cleaned up my system i would be happy, intrigued as to what it really did (if it all) and procalim that i have no idea what it does, but that it improved things.

I would not try to claim science where there seems to be none.

Dizzman, have your read the latest Widescreen Review article and interview with Furman?? Interesting read. Do you agree with what they say, about how their power conditioning will generally help audio and video in stereo and home theater systems, because our AC power system wasn't designed to handle the microcircuits and processors and loads that we now use and the typical dirty power clearly definitely negatively impacts performance - or is Furman just hyping like you say other companies hype the need for AC power conditioners or regenerators?

i have never said that people are hyping the need for conditioning.

i have said...
1. SOme people have crappy power and can benifit from conditioning of some sort.
2. Most power is not that crappy. Like any manufacturer, you must accentuate the need for your products.
3. Furman is a clear example of a company that provides clear real world engineering support of their claims.
4. MOST homes are better served by first upgrading the grounding system in their house. Most home grounds are sufficient, but not really that good. Grounding is the basis for all the elecricity in your home. it is the electrical foundation. A good Star or other architecture is shown to improve things.
5. If you want to go crazy, have the panel rewired as many electrical contactors do a rather messy job.
6. If all the basics are taken care of, a conditioner, a balanced system (illegal in residential usage according to the NEC) can possibly continue to make improvements. However, whether then make changes that we can hear in all cases also is a matter of debate.


That is what i have repeatedly said. Andi have not read the latest Widescreen. I will see if i can find the article.

i believe in making sure your basics are solid and the electricity is obviously part of that. but many manufacturers take a bit of a chicken little approach.

The reality is that while we can go on and on about possible/theoretical weaknesses in our grid, north america has likely the most stable and solid electricity in the world. And Switch mode power supplies are designed with that in mind. And components are designed (in some cases at least) for solid isolation betweent he spurious noise of those supplies and the rest of the component. However Pin one issues still permeate many products.

So, have i rambled enough to clarify my position?

Star56

At least THANK YOU for quoting me in whole and not snipping it all out of context. :)

Chu Gai

You don't know what your missing. And with an all knowing attitude such as you are displaying here you never will. So it's all good. :)

Curt Palme

On the video side of things we have in place an wonderful set of standards that go a long way to achieving an very good and accurate picture. We also benefit from those standards being used in the industry so we consumers can see about the same thing as the software makers did. One does not necessarily need to be ISF certified to adhere to the standards that they are teaching. I, at the time, saw real value in becoming ISF certified and have benefited greatly from continued discussions with both Joel Silver and Joe Kane. I would hope they too benefited from those discussions.

Sadly in the audio world there are far too little standards and most are so poorly adhered to that they might as well not exist.

Even more to the point how we hear has not been fully quantified and so there are NO TESTS to explain the way we hear or what we are hearing. Until this is fully understood and quantified we are left to simple trial and error as to what works and doesn't. Also our brain allocates brain usage far less to hearing than to seeing and is used to interpret what is heard. This can and does get in the way at times. Our mood will also color our listening experience to be good or bad depending on how we feel at the time.

Even this is TOO MUCH for most of the nay say posters here.

I can tell you that there are sonic and visual benefits for running an dedicated electrical circuit into the home theater or audio room for the electronic equipment. And yet I am certain that there are many electricians who would laugh at me and say I am wasting my customers money. Don't even think about using Hubble outlets at $20 verses those $.57 cheapies at the hardware store.

It all comes down to HANDS ON experience. Of which most of the nay sayers here have little experience with. I will not use these observations for all or even most of my customers as it is of little importance to them or there is no money in the budget for these improvements.

Curt are you calibrating 100% of the displays for 100% of your customers? My bet would be NO. It is the same for me . But for those who allow themselves to be educated in the reasons and values of this service there is an large benefit noticed when they go to their friends home and look at how out of whack their friends display is. They now have a far more accurate frame of reference. This empowers them and assures them that they made the right choice to become educated as to the ways of an properly calibrated display.

As I stated before...

FOLKS, DON'T KNOCK IT UNTIL AND UNLESS YOU HAVE TRIED IT. ;) :)

Hey I'm sure many thought Christopher Columbus was a nut for trying to sail out past the horizon and him not knowing if he and his ships and crews would fall off the end of the world. Shoot even down to this day there is the Flat Earth Society. These yahoos still believe the world is flat. It's their loss.

To state that there are standards for the video world but not for the audio world is ridiculous.

Laughably so. And that we do not understand hearing... I must walk away.

The reality is that while we can go on and on about possible/theoretical weaknesses in our grid, north america has likely the most stable and solid electricity in the world. And Switch mode power supplies are designed with that in mind. And components are designed (in some cases at least) for solid isolation betweent he spurious noise of those supplies and the rest of the component. However Pin one issues still permeate many products.



Apparently you and your engineering friends at Furman see things very, very differently, as they say in the WSR article that your audio video components will clearly benefit with their products.

Dizzman, is AC and electricity your expertise over at Extron? Are you an electrical engineer? Or do you know as much about this stuff as- say - ValhallaPC? (That would be scary).

I would say that it would hurt their sales if Furman said that their power conditioning stuff didn't affect ANY system in a postive way. :)

That's like a Porsche engineer that drives a Chevy..;)

I just checked out the Furman site, they seem to have gone far away from their previous lines of pro audio stuff that I thought was fair at best, it certainly wasn't at the calibre of stuff like Brooke Siren or Rane products.

So... obviously there's money in power line conditioning stuff. I still don't think any of it is worth the hyperbole given it in the press, usually by writers of said company(s).

I could see how a power line conditioner might have benefits to a touring band that plays small, old venues that have poor ground or neutral connections. In a home with dedicated circuits along with a well thought out and executed installations, it does NOTHING to the sound or picture quality.

I can tell you that there are sonic and visual benefits for running an dedicated electrical circuit into the home theater or audio room for the electronic equipment. And yet I am certain that there are many electricians who would laugh at me and say I am wasting my customers money. Don't even think about using Hubble outlets at $20 verses those $.57 cheapies at the hardware store.

Curt are you calibrating 100% of the displays for 100% of your customers?

.

I don't disagree with running dedicated power. No question that your system will run cleaner.

No, I don't calibrate ANY of the projectors I sell. 99.9% are sold out of town, and final calibration will be deterined by many factors incl the processor and signal source that drives the projector.

Even more to the point how we hear has not been fully quantified and so there are NO TESTS to explain the way we hear or what we are hearing.

Huh? You mean like hearing tests? Those exist. As do decades of research into how we perceive sounds. Try reading a textbook about the auditory system or any decent audio or sound/music textbook.

Apparently you and your engineering friends at Furman see things very, very differently, as they say in the WSR article that your audio video components will clearly benefit with their products.

Dizzman, is AC and electricity your expertise over at Extron? Are you an electrical engineer? Or do you know as much about this stuff as- say - ValhallaPC? (That would be scary).

I never said that products will not benefit. I chose my words carefully. Some will, some more than others and some not at all. (after all, all companies do have marketing departments)

I am not a degreed electrical engineer. i am also no longer at Extron. i left there two years ago. I am however a person who has 18 years working in Pro Audio, Video and AV systems design and installation. i taught this stuff at Infocomm and CEDIA and am faculty at Infocomm. I am also well respected by many degreed engineers and can discuss RF transmission theory and other concepts of signal transmission with them. As i had to in order to teach this stuff. So i have a bit of theoretical knowledge as well as practical knowledge.

Have i seen mystery things make systems better, yes. Have i dug and found there was a better fix that they were only working around... yes. Have i found fancy "widget fix" boxes that made things worse... absolutely.

I have always said that if you think that things got better when you added doohickey ABC, then great. Do one of the following things.
1. Sit back and smile and dont care what happened, just enjoy.
2. Try to figger out what the heck it fixed (if it actually changed anything)
3. Take about how much you love the box but admit that you have no idea what it did, just that you perceive the system to be better.

And whatever you do... PLEASE do not claim that the system got
1,000,000,000,000,000 times better when you wiped your *** before listening

Have i seen mystery things make systems better, yes. Have i dug and found there was a better fix that they were only working around... yes. Have i found fancy "widget fix" boxes that made things worse... absolutely.


We agree on this. I've tried many tweaks in my system, and some I expected to work didn't, some I didn't expect to work did, some worked as I hoped. HA!

Man, if I was a hi-fi dealer in the USA, I would assemble a tweak care-package.
I would send it out on loan free-of-charge such that all the "close-minded textbook naysayers" would have no barrier to actual trying out some of these "skeptical tweaks / snake-oil", other than laziness.

[rant on]
What if you tried one of these crazy tweaks and it did indeed work, and whatever knowledge you think you have could not scientifically explain it ?
Then what about the next crazy tweak you cannot explain ?
I have such a hard time with people who never try. [rant off]

- Andy

Ummm yes bought and tested one of the most touted snake oil products around and shown it to be pure bunk.

Again how did all these guys beat physics that sell this crap? And why wont they ever do a peer review?

Ummm yes bought and tested one of the most touted snake oil products around and shown it to be pure bunk.

Again how did all these guys beat physics that sell this crap? And why wont they ever do a peer review?

Whatsammater. the snake oil advertised to improve your DVD picture didn't improve your sex life!!!!

We missed you on this thread, at least your Speco ego.

So, what is the official Allen Fleener 'tweak pack'?

you either believe in science or you do not.

If you do not, then there is lots of magic in the world. If you do, then while you do not have to nay say everything, you do need to accept that there are certain things that are fixed immutable laws in our world. And while our body of knowledge may not be complete in many areas, we owe it to ourselves to try to apply the scientific method to things to ensure that our old friend Mr. Placebo is not tweaking our system. Never forget that he is far more powerful than we realize, and very difficult to remove.

And nonsensical ramblings with no solid basis in this world are not science. I know that some like to say that we just do not have the basis to understand or start quoting obscure and esoteric references, but there are accepted basics that we must start from.

Amen Dizz!

I agree with Dizzman

however I still enjoy reading about all these tweaks: I think we should allow some lattitude here to discuss them

Hey, i am all for talking about them. Lets try to figure out what they do. After all, if something improves your system, it must be doing something.

Chu Gai

There is no OFFICIAL tweek pack. However there are some things that can be done and I listed quite a few in my post.

I would say that there are many things one should do BEFORE you start to tweek your system.

The first is to define what you would like to achieve from your system. Are you the type who thinks BOSE is good enough or your wife won't let you have speakers bigger than a cell phone? If so run from this thread as there is no hope for you.

In order to hear what a tweek does you need to first have a fairly resolving system and one that was assembled in an very balanced way. This said system should be set up properly and speaker/ listener placement should be in the rooms optimum place. This will need to be done by someone who knows a thing or two about room acoustics and your speakers and has a very good frame of sonic reference already.

These folks are sadly not as common as one would think. So finding someone who is really good is going to be your biggest task. Think I don't know where of I speak? Just take a listen to show systems and you will see that 99% of these systems are poorly setup and yet these demo's are intended to inspire sales by the very people who design and build the gear. Amazing!!

Going to an audiophile type show can give you an overall better sonic choice than say CES. But there are a large amount of displays that sound pretty bad here too.

I have found that the person who does a good job has a real passion for audio and it is this passion that drives them to find the small improvements that when added together yields an wonderful listening experience. He knows what works because he has tied it and through this effort and search it has taken him far above the self proclaimed "nay sayers" who through the use of their superior intellect can deduce without the need of actual testing what will or will not work.

I find it particularly amusing when the self proclaimed super intelligents' "nay say" WITHOUT actually trying something. These folks are the most valuable of all mankind and need to be running the world and solving the really big issues such as finding a cure for ALL cancers and true world peace. Sadly they are too smart for that as it is beneath them.


Finally, while there have be great strides in understanding the human ear/brain interaction and the hearing process, There is still more not known than known. To state otherwise is far more telling as to who you THINK you are than who you really are. Once the sound hearing process is understood better and it is predictable in higher levels of accuracy then we need to do the same for the way sound interacts with the listening environment. Here too knowledge is increasing but there is still a long way to go. While we live in a time when wonderful systems can be assembled, there are still greater things ahead for the true audiophile. Isn't progress great? :)

Discussing tweaks or ways to improve upon what you've got is fine, Allen but when you say,

FOLKS, DON'T KNOCK IT UNTIL AND UNLESS YOU HAVE TRIED IT. ;) :)

or

I find it particularly amusing when the self proclaimed super intelligents' "nay say" WITHOUT actually trying something. These folks are the most valuable of all mankind and need to be running the world and solving the really big issues such as finding a cure for ALL cancers and true world peace. Sadly they are too smart for that as it is beneath them.


Constrast that statement with one made by Berkeley Premium Nutraceuticals, makers of the well known Enzyte which purports to make men hung like horses.
"Are our products effective? What better way to find out than to try them yourself?"

Your phrase has been both used and abused. It's abused by Michael Green, the mpingo folks, the CD and vinyl demagnetizers, Shatki, gold fuses, magic pebbles, special solders, feng shui arranging of one's system for harmonious interactions with the environment, the psychics who say they find missing people, and you name it.

Now, I have no idea what particular tweaks you're talking about and in response to my question, you offered post #485 which is enormously vague in its response. In fact, you didn't answer the question at all. You did however say one has to have a pretty resolving system as if that's the limiting criteria and not our ears. When it comes to a lot of tweaks, there's always the usual suspects that come up.

1. Anybody can hear it

2. Only those who listen carefully enough can hear it

3. Only those who care about 'enough' about music can hear it

4. Only those with the right equipment can hear it

5. Those of us who are sensitive-enough can hear it.

6. Only those who are sufficiently familiar with their system can hear it.

7. You have to sit in the right spot to hear it.

As you state, there have been many strides made in understanding the hearing process. That also includes how perceptions are influenced by factors both concious and subconcious. For you to bring that out while not having availed yourself of the opportunity in finding out just what has been understood and learned in the past two centuries leaves you in the current position that you find yourself.

Regarding ValhallPC, what is one to think when a person states they live next to a large transmitting tower and knows absolutely nothing about their earth ground? What does one think when a person guts their PC and removes the case which is there to mitigate RFI and says RFI matters...here's ERS paper to the rescue? The majority of his posts are delusional but delusions are a very personal thing. He's welcome to post and share them. The catharsis is good.

I've found the following post from you Allen on a number of sites.

"For the audio, it has added finer detail. Better dynamics both micro and macro. Deeper and wider sound stage. With the most pleasing effect of making listening to music more emotionally fulfilling and involving.

On the video side, as you know, I am CEDIA certified and an ISF (Imaging Science Foundation) video display calibrator, so I take my video as seriously as I do my audio. I found that after I treated the component video cables, I had to readjust the color level (lowering it by 30%… from a setting of 50 to a setting of 35), and tint levels on my $30k InFocus Screenplay 777 projector as the signal strength was quite a bit stronger and the color was too saturated. The 3D effect for hi-def in particular is noticeably better.To sum up… I feel this silver treatment is a must have for ANY system - no matter the cost - as it will take it to the next level for next to nothing cost wise. I found no down side to this treatment and will recommend it to all my customers, and use it in all of my new systems and installs.

Once again, thank you for this great product!"

Allen Fleener · Affordable Home Theater · Riverside, CA

Truly now. What does that tell the person about the state of your equipment and cables? Filthy? Dirty? Corroded? What does it tell you about units you've calibrated?

The tint line is particulary funny. especially if you know what the heck tint is. It is a phase releationship in the encider between the two signals coming in. SO voltage level has virtually nothing to do with it.

And if these improvements are compensated for by adjusting the colour settings then guess what, this means more voltage (IRE) is hitting the decoder and as such it can be measured... so where are the shots from the scope to show up the improved response?

THis is my point. If something happens, then in many (if not all) cases it can be measured, but all these claims are done without any substantitive proof. We do not live in OZ. there is no man behind the curtain.

Most of us are not Nay Saying, we are just asking what the thing does.


BTW Chu, you forgot *You are not sufficiently trained to hear it*

I thought is was sort of covered with 5 and 6, but if you think not, I'll just add it. When some of these tweaks work, and the context remains to be seen, you have to ask yourself if you've got a revealing system or one that's not robustly designed. Schizophrenic if you will.

DIZZMAN

Have you ever used color bars to set the chroma gain on a video display? If so then your stupid comment was not needed or helpful except to others who are clueless and looking for like minded. New cables less then a few months old new display about the same age. You are welcome to measure to your hearts content. I don't need to measure to know what is going on. It is obvious using the above test patterns and filters, Which is accepted by the ISF and all studios that adjust their video displays. Also if you are using component video cables there is a direct link in tint as the legs are additive and subtractive to achieve proper color balance IIRC.

By the way I read here that you were walking away, be careful that the door doesn't hit you in you brain.


Chu Gai

I have found that those who argue about what can or cannot be heard are much like those spitting into the wind. This is not a thread to debate just to hear your self speak. If you have doubts, fine, but speak from a point of knowledge and not speculation.

I suggest that you try BEFORE you buy. Those who are real will usually accommodate you. But if you are a jerk they won't give you the time of day.

I find it interesting how the "nay sayers" resort to ridiculous examples thanks for the laugh.

http://static.flickr.com/41/125571007_aa7271051c.jpg

I find it interesting that when asked a specific question you dance around it like a ballerina.

I see your
http://static.flickr.com/41/125571007_aa7271051c.jpg

and raise you a
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/sk8acaution/ab046af3.jpg

DIZZMAN
Have you ever used color bars to set the chroma gain on a video display?


Yes, more times than you i am willing to make a guess, and possibly for far longer. And also measuring bars on Waveform monitors and vector scopes and through TBC's/proc amps and any other kind of widget you care to name. And not just old standard bars either, Grass valley bars on some broadcast level system i used to use as well as many other test patterns that broke down all of the parts of this crazy old system we use. (PAL as well, although they do not have tint... bonus points if you can tell us why!)

You said in that quoted reference about the silver goop something or other

I found that after I treated the component video cables, I had to readjust the color level (lowering it by 30%… from a setting of 50 to a setting of 35), and tint levels on my $30k InFocus Screenplay 777 projector as the signal strength was quite a bit stronger and the color was too saturated.

And i said that if it increased the colour, then that is something that can be measured. I also said that Tint is not a voltage thing, it is a phasing thing. SO it would not be affected by voltage.

If you would like the basics, please read this article. It was written by somebody that Joe Kane regards as an expert in video
http://www.extron.com/technology/archive.asp?id=ntscdb1

If you read all of the linked articles, you will understand why your tint comment makes no sense.

I will give you the colour one, but i stick by my comment that if the colour needed to be turned down, you had more voltage hitting the decoder and as such, it can be measured. THis is not a phantom thing. NTSC decoding is about as well understood as anything out there. Making claims to the contrary would be silly.

I did walk out, but as with many other nitwits in this place when i see outlandish claims made by obviously uninformed people, i try to contribute to the discussion in an intelligent manner.

Now lets look at this discourse shall we... On one side we have folks talking rationally about the physical universe and how it complies with most of our laws. As such, we want to talk about how to make "stuff' perform better, so we talk about many ways (fixing electrical systems, balanced power, better grounding, acoustics, measurements, screens, and a variety of other things that may or may not be regarded as tweaks) to fix and make systems better. On the other side we have folks coming in and making outlandish claims with not one single piece of evidence that these things work other than "trust me, if you cannot see/hear the difference then you are obviously a fool"

As i have stated from the beginning, if you think it makes things better then all power to you, just do not expect products that seem to defy the laws of physics to be accepted as gospel. Many of us naysayers have seen/listened to lots of these things and found nothing there. We have seen/been party to the tests of the devices that are supposed to be so good that they will make your system seem broken without it and heard nothing. And there was always some reason why we were unable to see the difference. (am i describing the Emperors new clothes?)

As one example, if this silver stuff was so good... Wouldn't Dr. Morbius (MIT nuclear physicist at Lawrence Livermore National Labs) be using it on his test equipment? After all, he is working on pretty darn precise stuff after all. (weapons or energy or some stuff that is vital to the future) But i am pretty sure he is not, as a matter of fact, if i was able to sneak a peek at his gear, i bet i would find plain old IEC cords plugged into plain old circuits (good ground though i bet :D )

As a matter of fact, if it was as good as you say, they could set up a test with two side by each systems and run peple through and play clips off each system and everybody would easily hear/see the difference. But guess what, almost NONE of these tweaks have EVER been verified ANYWHERE in any type of test that follows any type of verifiable controls.


So, in response i expect more nonsense, more vitriol and not much else.

however I still enjoy reading about all these tweaks: I think we should allow some lattitude here to discuss them
They do make for great comedy. Alternatively, I suppose if a person used to live in a mental hospital and found comfort there but was released due to lack of government funding, they might feel at home by visiting threads such as this.

p.s. No I am not referring to myself, before someone tries to use that comeback :D.

Darn, you beat me to it!

[rant on]
What if you tried one of these crazy tweaks and it did indeed work, and whatever knowledge you think you have could not scientifically explain it ?
Then what about the next crazy tweak you cannot explain ?
I have such a hard time with people who never try. [rant off]Why is there a constant assumption that nay-sayers have not tried a particular product? Maybe there are nay-sayers who have tried a large number of products on high end systems and have yet to hear a difference? Approximately how many cables must we listen to before we are allowed to comment on the high end cable industry?

Dovetailing off of Greg's statement:What if you tried one of these crazy tweaks and it did indeed work, and whatever knowledge you think you have could not scientifically explain it ?That would be really cool, that's what. I'm sure as heck not afraid of such an occurrence, I would welcome it.

Of course, I suspect that my standard of evidence (and Q's, and Dizzman's etc.) for "it did indeed work" is higher than the ranter's. But scientific progress flat-out depends on people's hypotheses begin proven wrong sometimes. There would be no science without at least some refutation.

Furthermore, and I think this is closer to Dizzman's point, the real hunt if something were to "indeed work" would be to determine the root cause; that is, the real scientific principles at play. New principles may indeed need to be invented, which would again be really cool. Heck, high-end audio manufacturers invent all sorts of fake scientific principles all the time, so it will be nice to see some new real ones for a change.

Whatsammater. the snake oil advertised to improve your DVD picture didn't improve your sex life!!!!

We missed you on this thread, at least your Speco ego.

Not sure how any of what you wrote applies to the fact that I debunked a heaping pile of junk that some people think works.

Heck, something that is proven to work with no explantation would be friggin awesome. It would both improve things and leave a nice little mystery if you wanted to try to explain it. Which in turn might provide an option to make the product even better by figuring out the root cause and fixing that.

THe whole point of a tweak is to fix some fundamental flaw in the existing system (noise vibration, whatever) so if a tweak and the resulting "digging" helps you fix it so the tweak is not needed, that would be cool

So either i out logic'd people and they bowed down before my superior reasoning...

or they lost interest...

I think i will go with the former! :D :D :D

scientific progress flat-out depends on people's hypotheses begin proven wrong sometimes. There would be no science without at least some refutation.

I seem to recall seeing lots of old films with dudes that strapped wings to their arms thinking they could fly before Orville and Wilbur connected a few things.

And didnt scientist in the 1800's prove that going faster than 25 mph would kill a person?

We are discovering stuff all the time.

However people are also selling snake oil all the time!

So either i out logic'd people and they bowed down before my superior reasoning...

or they lost interest...

I think i will go with the former! :D :D :D


This thread is the longest running April Fools joke ever!!! Dizzman, thanks for helping it go on. :(

So you are Valhalla after all! Do you argue in court using that whisper? Very effective i would guess :D :D :D

So you are Valhalla after all! Do you argue in court using that whisper? Very effective i would guess :D :D :D

Its already been establishd that Speco is Valhalla???@@@ :D :D :D
Mebbe you are also Speco??

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Its already been establishd that Speco is Valhalla???@@@ :D :D :D
Mebbe you are also Speco??

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


See the difference between you and I is that many people on this forum know who I am, and know that I am not Patrick.

And it would be interesting to see you post the proof of your post, because its an absolute lie that you posted.

dude... lighten up, he is screwing with you, as was i with him

See the difference between you and I is that many people on this forum know who I am, and know that I am not Patrick.
That's the problem with narrow-minded skeptics, they think they know everything. I can never be sure if I am speco or not, even if it has been proven. Skeptics are delusional for thinking they aren't someone else, they suffer from mental disorder. They are trolls that live in a little cave in the forest because they are afraid of the unknown. They make themselves believe they know everything...

Sheer poetry

That's the problem with narrow-minded skeptics, they think they know everything. I can never be sure if I am speco or not, even if it has been proven. Skeptics are delusional for thinking they aren't someone else, they suffer from mental disorder. They are trolls that live in a little cave in the forest because they are afraid of the unknown. They make themselves believe they know everything...

WOW. Thats incredible.

time out