Now that the local stations in my area have finally gone digital, I'm looking to buy two cheap 20" TVs to replace the old ones (one of which still had knobs). However, I can't find any under 27" that have integrated digital tuners. I know that the tuner mandate for all TVs doesn't kick in until March, but it would have been nice to see at least one manufacturer being proactive instead of being dragged into the digital world kicking and screaming.

I don't want to wait until March...

.

I don't want to wait until March...
If you want a cheap CRT based unit you'll have to...

I think that the Best Buy Sunday paper insert had "digital" SDTV's advertised.

If you want a cheap CRT based unit you'll have to...

Even the 20" LCD ones don't have ATSC yet. Imagine the poor sucker buying that for his RV only to find out he can't use it in two years!

He can add an ATSC/NTSC converter for under $50 ($10 with the $40 voucher from the FCC) when available (by 2008/9).

Well, if you buy something for the purpose of hanging it on the wall, you don't really want to hook up a bulky box to it afterwards...

So there are no digital TVs cheaper than Best Buy's Insignia 27" at $220?

Is there an objective here?
Are you looking for a 20" LCD for the RV?
An inexpensive TV to hang on the wall?
Or... two new TV's with ATSC integrated tuners?

If you're looking for a 20" TV with an ATSC tuner built in to hang on the wall less than $220.......... you'll have to wait. And that's the way it is. Sorry.

No. I just need two CRT TVs (for a kitchen and a bedroom which are OTA only).

I was just using the flat panel story as an example to point out how stupid the manufacturers are to wait until the last minute before integrating digital tuners in their TVs.

No. I just need two CRT TVs (for a kitchen and a bedroom which are OTA only).

I was just using the flat panel story as an example to point out how stupid the manufacturers are to wait until the last minute before integrating digital tuners in their TVs.
Actually if the FCC didn't mandate the 3/07 date you wouldn't see them till 2/09. :(

Well, here we are, one week until the deadline! :D

None have been released yet, but the fact that most of the current models in that size range on Bestbuy.com are either listed as "Sold Out", "In store only", or are heavily discounted shows that the new models are finally coming!

Somehow, I don't see anyone just flipping a switch next week.

Well, if that happens I'll give the FCC's order sheet to every store manager who seems unaware of it. :p

Supposedly it was the same last year when the 25" mandate kicked in. You couldn't find any the week before yet most were replaced the week after.

I can't wait to see a small portable black and white ATSC TV! :D

I can't wait to see a small portable black and white ATSC TV! :D
You might be waiting for a while.

Does the FCC mandate prevent the sale of televisons with no ATSC tuner, or just their manufacture? I am assuming the later but couldn't find any information to suppot it.

Thanks,

Red.

They don't prohibit the sale but do prohibit the shipment across State lines, so once a store sells out, they theoretically can't receive any new stock from an out-of-state warehouse unless digital tuners are included.

TV without a tuner = monitor = perfectly legal and some on the market.

One day to go... :D

Do these new 4:3 SD TVs with the digital tuners coming out these days show the OTA digital channels in 16:9 (if they broadcast in HD) but just in 480i resolution or do they just do what they did in the analog world, 4:3? Thanks

Do these new 4:3 SD TVs with the digital tuners coming out these days show the OTA digital channels in 16:9 (if they broadcast in HD) but just in 480i resolution or do they just do what they did in the analog world, 4:3? Thanks
They have a zoom function so you can watch those channels in 16:9 or zoom to 4:3. Some of them automatically vertically compress HD channels so you are using all of the scan lines when watching in widescreen.

Well, it's March 2nd, and there still aren't any yet. :mad:

I was hoping to get a new one over the weekend. I'm sick of the faded picture and turning knobs on the current kitchen TV. :o

It could be a month before you see any, and I don't think there will be many to choose from.

I'm actually in the same boat. I have a 1990ish era 13" that I want to replace with something similar, but I'd like to get something that's at least capable without a billion little adapters hooked up to it.

Samsung has the 20" TX-T2082 slimfit with ATSC on their web site but no sign of them anywhere else.

Yep. Now where can I get one? What's the price?

So far, this seems to be the only one while the other brands are pouting refusing to put out anything below 27" :(

*sigh* I can't believe they are still making these stupid 4:3 HDTVs. I wonder if anyone will ever be selling small widescreen CRTs. I don't even care about HD, I just want some small widescreen CRTs.

NO! I actually want a 4:3 TV for the kitchen. It's used mostly to watch news or classic TV (which isn't widescreen). In fact I'm disappointed that every 20" LCD model I've seen announced for this year is 16:9.

NO! I actually want a 4:3 TV for the kitchen. It's used mostly to watch news or classic TV (which isn't widescreen).
Well, then it doesn't need to be an HDTV.

No. I just need the damn tuner since I just use over-the-air in that room.

Looks like there is some low cost small flat tube crt's coming down the line.

Toshiba 14" w/dvd
atsc/ntsc/qam tuner
Model # MD14H63

Sorry,forbidden link.Google it.

Toshiba will be offering a few 25" under ATSC-tuner CRTs this year. Please see this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=816442

Best Buy's house brand has just released one: Insignia NS-F20TV.

I want to see the Toshiba first though to compare price and quality. Also the Insignia scares me because I had to return last year's 27" model because all 720p sourced programs were shifted to the left when in 4:3 full (or zoom) mode.

Best Buy's house brand has just released one: Insignia NS-F20TV.

I want to see the Toshiba first though to compare price and quality. Also the Insignia scares me because I had to return last year's 27" model because all 720p sourced programs were shifted to the left when in 4:3 full (or zoom) mode.
Best Buy will not sell the 2007 Toshiba CRTs at all. Best Buy already announced that they will only be selling one brand, which is the Insignia.

Who'll get the Toshiba then? Not many stores still carrying these things... and $170 is pretty expensive for a cheap brand that used to go for about $120.

Who'll get the Toshiba then?
Maybe Target or Sears..?

Are there any CRT HDTVs under 26 inches yet? It would be nice to have say a 17 inch or 23 inch widescreen CRT HDTV. Even a 4:3 13 inch or 20 inch HD set....sadly we may never see one.

I suppose manufacturers figure it's not worth the expense of HD on such a small set, since the improvement in picture quality over SDTV wouldn't be very noticeable at normal viewing distances, not to mention declining demand for CRT sets to begin with.

edit: never mind, I guess the Samsung is an SDTV? So why do they call it an HDTV? :confused:

FWIW, I went to Best Buy yesterday to look at the new Insignia 14" and 20" CRTs, and those looked awful. All Insignia TVs that I've seen have looked horrible. Actually, most of the CRTs on display looked terrible, including all of the Toshibas. A Sony KD-32FS170, a 32" Sharp SDTV, and a 30" Samsung HDTV were the only CRTs that looked ok. Everything else on display looked very bad.

The Insignia NS-F20TV is now listed as On Sale at Best Buy.

Has anyone tried it out yet? I just want to make sure it handles 16:9 flags properly, unlike its 27" predecessor and Sharp's new 20" LCD that can't even recognize them.

Sears carries a 25" Sony, digital tuner, no HD, that looks pretty good.

Yeah. But all the 25+ have been out for over a year. It is the small ones that haven't been out yet that I'm looking for.

Toshiba is supposed to have a 20DF47 coming out but I haven't seen any place that would carry it and what price it would be at.

Toshiba is supposed to have a 20DF47 coming out
Don't count on it. They've removed it from the website.

As I mentioned, I think the Insignia looks like complete crap. You could look at the Prima at Circuit City, but I doubt it's any better.

I was at Best Buy and Wal Mart in Milwaukee today. Both had 13" TVs with ATSC tuners. The Best Buy one was $129. The Wal Mart one was $55!! The sticker under the Wal Mart TV (Durabrand Model 1305?) said it had both an analog and digital tuner. I wonder ...

I was in my local BestBuy today and all they had under 25" were the Dynex, Insignia and 20" Samsung models. The SlimFit had obvious bowing issues when displaying a letter boxed widescreen picture. Strangely they also had an open box Toshiba 30HF66, although I had never seen that model previously in the store. Are they moving open box items around between stores?

Regards,

Red.

Available at Circuit City for $180. Seems very heavy for a midsize television at 55 lbs. OTOH, my JVC weighed in at 50 so I suppose that's normal weight.

Normal 20":
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Prima-20-Tube-TV-C2012/sem/rpsm/oid/174708/catOid/-12867/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

With combo DVD:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Prima-20-Tube-TV-DVD-Combo-CV2011/sem/rpsm/oid/174869/catOid/-12867/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

I'm also in the market for a 20" CRT Digital ready (ATSC tuner) TV in the roughly ~$100-$200 price range (will go slightly higher if PQ warrants it).

Problem is from this thread the most readily available TVs to fit this criteria are the Insignia (BestBuy) and Prima (CC) and they both have been commented on as have mediocare/poor PQ.

Any rumors of: Sony, Sharp, Toshiba, LG (do they do CRT?), etc... getting any 20" Digital CRTs on the market??

Sony doesn't have any models <27" listed at sonystyle. Toshiba doesn't have any Digital ready CRTs on their site. Sharp only has >=27" models on it's site. LG's website only has a 30" directview model.

Where's the love for the 20" digital crt TVs.... I guess those are left to the non-first teir brand names: Insignia, Prima, Sylvania, etc....

Even BJs didn't have a selection of CRT TVs anymore. I just don't want to spend the extra cash on an LCD flat panel 20" when the use/location will handle a CRT fine. But I do want the ATSC tuner for the extra channels and future proof.

My local BJ's now only has a couple of CRT models left, a price reduced JVC 27" and an older Toshiba 20" DVD combo (analog). What I did find interesting, was that they are now feeding all the LCD sets with an HD component feed. Pictures look much better that the old RF NTSC feed but I expect a few people will be disappointed when they get home and see an SD program.

Regards,

Red.

I'm not sure where I saw this article, but I read that all tvs under 25 inches must come with ATSC tuners by July 1 2007. I'll try to find the link.

If having a TV/DVD player combo unit is acceptable (I'm on the fence on this one but might end up with it) I found this Toshiba unit:

Toshiba MD20H63 20" Diagonal Flat TV/DVD Combination
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=md20h63

This TV has both a ATSC and QAM (and NTSC of course) tuners.... It's a nice feature set in my eyes. I am just a fan of keeping things seperate (vs. combo TV/DVD, VCR, etc..). Like I said, I might have to change my mind for this one as their are only slim pickings.

I'm not sure where I saw this article, but I read that all tvs under 25 inches must come with ATSC tuners by July 1 2007. I'll try to find the link.


Here is the link to the article FCC mandate (http://tv.about.com/od/frequentlyaskedquestions/f/buyingTVtuner.htm)

I was at Best Buy and Wal Mart in Milwaukee today. Both had 13" TVs with ATSC tuners. The Best Buy one was $129. The Wal Mart one was $55!! The sticker under the Wal Mart TV (Durabrand Model 1305?) said it had both an analog and digital tuner. I wonder ...

Went back to the SAME Wal Mart today - the sticker under the same 13" TV now says that it has an analog tuner only!

Anyone checkout / buy / try / know something about the "Dynex" brand 20" or 24" CRT Digital ready (does that nessarrily mean QAM too) TVs listed on this weeks BestBuy ad? The list prices on these sets are interesting....

Isn't Dynex a BestBuy label? Did they switch from Insignia to Dynex or do they have two house labels or is one actually a different brand?

I think they're making Dynex the low-end and Insignia the high-end brands of Best Buy.

On another note, has Toshiba completely abandonned the 20DF47? I wanted one. :(

I think they're making Dynex the low-end and Insignia the high-end brands of Best Buy.

On another note, has Toshiba completely abandonned the 20DF47? I wanted one. :(

Do you know if they have the:

Toshiba MD20H63 20" Diagonal Flat TV/DVD Combination
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televis...p?model=md20h63

out to stores? and if so what stores should carry this model? It seems to be the best fit for me needs (QAM, ATSC, etc... DVD is Ok addon).

Well, I've found two more: Philips 20PT9007D/17 at Best Buy, and RCA 20F424T.

Both of these are crap! The digital tuners are separate from the analog tuners, so you have to switch between analog and digital modes instead of being able to flip through all channels like on any other TV. Also, the OSD on the Philips looks worst in digital mode than analog mode, leading me to believe the scaler is complete junk!

Has anyone been able to try out Best Buy's Inisgnia NS-F20TV yet? It looks like this is my last and only hope for a SD tube TV.

Samsung has the 20" TX-T2082 slimfit with ATSC on their web site but no sign of them anywhere else.
They are now at Sears and Best Buy. Both have it priced at $250. It also has a QAM tuner.

True, the TX-T2082 is now available. The display model I saw last month had obvious geometry issues (no Bluejay chip in this model). Also the slimfit technology on the 20" appears to have a larger dot pitch at the edge of the screen than the other slimfit models I have seen. Perhaps they are pushing the width to depth ratio a bit more on the small set?

Red.

Best Buy has their Model DXR20TV 20" Dynex SDTV on sale this week for $129. It supposedly has an ATSC tuner.

I have yet to see a 20" CRT TV with an ATSC tuner in it that I liked. I'd buy a slightly larger one if I could get HDTV, but so far the smallest CRT HDTV that I have seen is 26", and that's too big for me.

Have you considered using a 19" CRT computer monitor and pairing it with an OTA tuner w/RGB outputs, such as one the Samsung models?

Have you considered using a 19" CRT computer monitor and pairing it with an OTA tuner w/RGB outputs, such as one the Samsung models?

No. I want a real TV, complete with tuner. I want to be able to record one show while watching another. I also use the TV's speakers. I also just want to use a TV just as a separate standalone device (no external tuner), as nature intended.

Best Buy has the Samsung 20" TX-T2082 slimfit with ATSC tuner for $250 and the Dynex DX-R20TV for $125.

I wonder how Samsung is doing with fixing the geometry problems on those Slimfits? Did the display model look OK?

Seems like smaller sets have fewer geometry problems, so that TV might be worth considering, seeing that there are no more Sony CRT's.

Best Buy has the Samsung 20" TX-T2082 slimfit with ATSC tuner for $250 and the Dynex DX-R20TV for $125.

Did you actually see the Samsung TX-T2082 in the store?

Did you actually see the Samsung TX-T2082 in the store?
You realize that you can check store availability on the website..?