I currently have a surge protector on my system. What impact would a power conditioner with voltage regulator have on my system regarding picture quality? Is there any benefit in running the OTA antenna and satellite input (before running to stb receiver)? Thinking about the Belkin PF60. Thanks

I know this will get groans from many who disparage spendy power products and cables, but I can assure you that if you were to put a Transparent Audio Powerbank 1, then upgrade the power cord going in and out to Transparent Reference Power Links, your jaw would drop. The psycho good thing would be their PowerIsolator MM with an MM power cord. I'm not so sold on voltage regulators for improving quality. Perhaps overall product longevity.

Here's a link to the Transparent stuff of which I speak...

http://transparentcable.com/products/power/powerbank1.html

http://transparentcable.com/products/power/powerisolator_mm.html

http://transparentcable.com/products/power/ref_powerlink_powercord.html

http://transparentcable.com/products/power/powerlinkmm_powercord.html

I ended up finding a APC H10 for 129 dollars at Compusa. Cannot believe the price. Will update

The question is do you just want surge protection, or do you actually want an improvement in performance via reduction of power line noise/grunge? If you want to save money, don't bother even looking at the Transparent stuff. If you want to see a silly improvement in performance that none of your friends will believe and in fact think you foolish for spending the money on something as un-sexy as a power conditioner, then get Transparent.

Once you start down the Transparent path, forever will it dominate your future cable and power purchases.... :)

Once you start down the Transparent path, forever will it dominate your future cable and power purchases.... :)Scary.

So I just installed the APC 10.

-On my Dish Network system my local network channels are now as good as my OTA signal. The improvement is noticeable and the picture is clearer and more defined.

-On the HD channels the picture seems slightly improved but it's hard to make a difinative statement. The PBS OTA HD channel was hit and miss. The picture is now as good as my other HD channels

-On the Worst channels on my systems (DIY, WE, Bravo) the picture is noticeably better and SD is almost watchable now :)

I do notice that the picture is brighter on all channels so I turned down the contrast and brightness a few notches.

It's interesting that the "filtering status indicator" has been on since I plugged the H10 in. Also, the "Line Boost status" indicator has gone periodically over the last hour. I have noticed in the past that the lights in my den do dim occasionally for a few seconds

I wasn't expecting a miracle but a nominal improvement. I can say that the picture has improved and I'm glad I spent such a small amount

What you need is "isolated power" through a power conditioner, ie circuits that reduce interference induced by other components to a minimum.

To illustrate i run a 25 ft. HDMI cable to my PLV-Z3 and the Panamax 5500 i have was set to "balanced power" for amps and high draw components. The PJ would not sync with my Tosh HD-A1 (hehe twist is Gefen 4x1 and also a KDS HD Leeza processor with 3 ft cables in between). After i switched the power circuits feeding the PJ to "isolated" i got a crisp pic and no sync problem ever again.

I hope this sheds some light. Also, that 25 ft cable is 1" thick with isolation and gold connectors from my only source of AV cables, Ramelectonics.net, recommend them highly.

If you're looking for surge protection and noise protection, these units can do a world of good.

I tested quite a few power cables (including supposedly high end power cables) as well as Belkin PureAV consoles on their impact on PQ. Lots of A-B tests, absolutely no difference in PQ...

I would agree with most comments in this thread

what power conditioners will get you is protection mostly, that is not to say they won't do anything else

on the audio side of things, they can remove ground loops and background hiss that is caused by line problems, I have personally seen or should I say heard this in my system

on the video side of things, ground loops will be removed and this is a weird one, every power conditioner I have used with any display of mine, has improved the black level, nothing else, but improved black level and stability, resulting in lower brightness setttings, I am a CRT guy though, never have used anything else, never will ;) the same has applied to all my CRT devices, RPTV and FPTV

power conditioners are very welcome in my system, don't over do it though

I run 2 panamax 4400's which are 20-amp, one is on a dedicated circuit for my power amp, another is on a dedicated circuit for my sub amps and pre-amp and 1 panamax 4300 on a dedicated circuit for all my digital gear like scaler, dvd, blu-ray, hd-dvd etc., I use its dedicated high power outlet for my CRT pj, good high quality stuff that I trust, can't say the same about monster

-Gary

I myself have used Transparent & APC stuff in my system & am quite satisfied. The improvements are subtle but noticable. Its not going to be a night & day difference.

Anyone here go to their nearest Transparent Audio dealer, borrow a PI-MM power conditioner and see if it doesn't make a crazy difference. If you can borrow a PL-MM power cord to replace your projector's stock cord, THAT is crazy better as well.

Are there any power conditioners out there that can handle 2000 watts ?

Art

Are there any power conditioners out there that can handle 2000 watts ?

Art

2000W – sure, are you referring to 2kw aggregate total with a mix of equipment, or multi-channel / multiple audio power amps? I advise caution and careful selection of power conditioning on power amps. I have a Classe CA-400 2 channel power amp that can draw 15 amps at 120v (1.8kw) and it sounds choked by most power conditioners. I ending up going with just surge suppression on that amp because all the power conditioners degraded the sound quality noticeably. That’s not to say that there aren’t conditioners out there that will work well on high current draw amps, just that I could not find one that I liked for this particular application.

2000W – sure, are you referring to 2kw aggregate total with a mix of equipment, or multi-channel / multiple audio power amps? I advise caution and careful selection of power conditioning on power amps. I have a Classe CA-400 2 channel power amp that can draw 15 amps at 120v (1.8kw) and it sounds choked by most power conditioners. I ending up going with just surge suppression on that amp because all the power conditioners degraded the sound quality noticeably. That’s not to say that there aren’t conditioners out there that will work well on high current draw amps, just that I could not find one that I liked for this particular application.
Unfortunately, most power conditioners just don't have the slew rate or current drive required for demanding amplifiers. They also tend to have too much capacitance. You need a minimum of 12dB of current headroom to let an amp breathe.

Art sure there is, I use 2 of them

the Panamax 4400 20amp ;) 2400w if my memory is correct for 20amps

http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?group=1&sec=detail&id=209&ly=h

-Gary

Are there any power conditioners out there that can handle 2000 watts ?

Art

Hi Art,

Here's a link to Equi=tech's website. They'll have any level you'll need. I use the 2 Q myself. And if I remember correctly I think Jeff (theBland) is actually using a couple of their power panels. Great stuff! :cool:

http://www.equitech.com/

Anyone here go to their nearest Transparent Audio dealer, borrow a PI-MM power conditioner and see if it doesn't make a crazy difference. If you can borrow a PL-MM power cord to replace your projector's stock cord, THAT is crazy better as well.
This sounds like a "definitive" opportunity to me! Dare I ask how much these bad boys cost??

Anyone know of a "quality" surge protector (other than Monster) that will work for ceiling use w/o running an extension cord?

Try Transparent P2 which you can plug in like the Monster unit & comes with a ceiling kit. I use that currently with my projector.

Anyone know of a "quality" surge protector (other than Monster) that will work for ceiling use w/o running an extension cord?

I do run an extension cord. I found it at Lowe's Home Improvement, it is a 24 AWG heavy power equipment cord, which i figured will give ample bandwidth. As a plus it is faintly LED illuminated at the end so i have no problem finding it in the crawl space between the floor and the popcorn ceilining. BTW popcorn ceiling rooms are a blessing for HT.

I do run an extension cord. I found it at Lowe's Home Improvement, it is a 24 AWG heavy power equipment cord, which i figured will give ample bandwidth. As a plus it is faintly LED illuminated at the end so i have no problem finding it in the crawl space between the floor and the popcorn ceilining. BTW popcorn ceiling rooms are a blessing for HT.

I hope you meant 12 AWG :eek: . Anyway there is nothing wrong with pluging an extension cord into a surge protector. The extension cord causes no dimished surge protection provided only one device is plugged into it. Meaning plugging your projector and a space heater into the other end is not a good idea.

BTW, running an extension cord through a drop ceiling is a code violation. Just keep that in mind.

This sounds like a "definitive" opportunity to me! Dare I ask how much these bad boys cost??

Ha! Absolutely. I make no secret of that, given my screen name is...well, my name. Definitive-ly indeed ;)

To answer your question, they ain't cheap. But anyone who's serious about video quality should try it just to see what they can do (no flaming about salesguys please. All I'm saying is borrow something to see if you agree). PI-MM is $2,995 and the PL-MM is $1,795.

Obviously, these are going to be purchased for the most part, by folks doing new digital projectors and pretty spendy ones at that. I have an installation coming up that will have a PI-MM going on a Runco VX-6000 1080p DLP projector onto a 7' wide screen. The projector's stock cord will get replaced with a Transparent Reference Power Link. The front end equipment all has upgraded Transparent Reference cords as well, and run into a Transparent PI-8, and all into dedicated 20-amp circuits.

I'll let you know how nutty good it is :)

I am trying this week the Panamax 7500 PRO power conditioner. I shall SEE if there is a difference...:)

Anyone here go to their nearest Transparent Audio dealer, borrow a PI-MM power conditioner and see if it doesn't make a crazy difference.

Nope, didn't make a difference.

Hi Art,

Here's a link to Equi=tech's website. They'll have any level you'll need. I use the 2 Q myself. And if I remember correctly I think Jeff (theBland) is actually using a couple of their power panels. Great stuff! :cool: http://www.equitech.com/

These are what I use on my system, that is - two (2) Equitech 2Q (2000W) dedicated isolation transformers with center-tapped isolated ground system. These are hardwired in next to my electric panel in the basement and then I used 10 gage wire runs to medical grade outlets for all my amps (5 custom monoblocks and 2 subs + the rest of the AV gear). When I first installed these a couple years ago I did some A/B testing. On the audio side they provide significant (easy to hear the difference) punch and crispness to power hungry bass tracks music and movie soundtracks. On the video side it was more subtle improvement, but there was a reduction in video noise and black was noticeably improved. I haven't done any testing on these with my newer rear projection sony SXRD or Panisonic AE900 projector, but I have no reason to believe they are not still providing clean power. Come to think of it these have performed without a hitch all this time- that's commendable.

Nope, didn't make a difference.

Are the Transparent products true isolation transformers ? My understanding from the research I did way back when is that the "conditioners" can help in some instances, but also can introduce there own issues. Also, for those who want surge protection, power conditioners are an expensive way to do this. I'm using a "whole panel" type surge protector which takes up one slot in your electric box and sends any power surge right to the house ground even before it ever enters the house wiring.

Ha! Absolutely. I make no secret of that, given my screen name is...well, my name. Definitive-ly indeed ;)

To answer your question, they ain't cheap. But anyone who's serious about video quality should try it just to see what they can do (no flaming about salesguys please. All I'm saying is borrow something to see if you agree). PI-MM is $2,995 and the PL-MM is $1,795.

Obviously, these are going to be purchased for the most part, by folks doing new digital projectors and pretty spendy ones at that. I have an installation coming up that will have a PI-MM going on a Runco VX-6000 1080p DLP projector onto a 7' wide screen. The projector's stock cord will get replaced with a Transparent Reference Power Link. The front end equipment all has upgraded Transparent Reference cords as well, and run into a Transparent PI-8, and all into dedicated 20-amp circuits.

I'll let you know how nutty good it is :)

So a little insomnia and I find myself looking at this thread and realizing that I can now comment on how this installation went.....

We installed the VX-6000D first sans power conditioner and upgraded power cord just to get it going and set up. We found it's zoom and focus were defective and it had to be replaced. Fortunately for the client, it was in nearly perfect focus and sized to the screen out of the box, so the week wait for the new projector wasn't a big deal. What WAS a big deal was this......

Note I said we did not have the PI-MM power conditioner and the RPL power cord on it intially, so I took note of several reference clips. Then when we got the new projector, we installed the PI-MM and RPL and played those same reference clips.....lower noise, deeper color saturation and greater color depth, better black level, greater three-dimensionality. Not subtle.

So $3,000 power conditioners and $800 power cords aren't for everybody, but if you've got the dough, they're not hype. Reducing noise improves a products performance. This is not a radical notion :)

Power "conditioners" can work.

Example:

I was starting to get an unusable SD PQ happened over time my wife never saw it but lets just say I can be picky. Well I was thinking it must be the source or the set so I moved a 27"crt into the room hooked it up (no HD) turned it on SD looked better but still not as good as it should be.

Checked cable, I was getting a very good signal :confused: Started looking at the power, to start off with I borrowed one from work. Much better PQ still there but now I have to look for problems. Had a friend from work come over and he tested my power in the house. He used a frequency tester don't ask what exactly am not an electrical eng he is (I can ask if some one really would like to know) anyway I had good power coming from the street but after testing every circuit we found a bad power supply on my desktop (most likely the cause) and a very bad light socket :eek: (most likely would have been the cause of the house fire had we not found it)

Unplugged the desktop fix the light, PQ back to what it should have been.

Moral:

Yes power "conditioners" can work but there is usually some reason why and why some see no change at all. It can be caused by the power from the street if so a power "conditioners" will work but you should look inside your house too and fix any problems you find there first.

You should use one for the surge protection anyway and why we have them at work.