I was wondering if you guys could give me some recommendations as to what sub I should consider for a loft apartment. It's an L shaped loft and my HT system is set up in a part of the apartment that's about 600 sq ft. I currently have an HK 300 series av receiver. My main speakers are a set of KEF Q series from their 200.5 series speakers. I am using a pair of Ohm Walsh speakers as my surrounds. I'd like to add a sub (budget is around $500) It will be used for about 60% music/40% home theater. Space is an issue so the smaller the sub's footprint, the better. Thanks for any input on this.

I was wondering if you guys could give me some recommendations as to what sub I should consider for a loft apartment. It's an L shaped loft and my HT system is set up in a part of the apartment that's about 600 sq ft. I currently have an HK 300 series av receiver. My main speakers are a set of KEF Q series from their 200.5 series speakers. I am using a pair of Ohm Walsh speakers as my surrounds. I'd like to add a sub (budget is around $500) It will be used for about 60% music/40% home theater. Space is an issue so the smaller the sub's footprint, the better. Thanks for any input on this.

Do you have any common (shared) walls with your neighbors?

Here's a few choices: Hsu VTF-2 Mk II ($499 + shipping) - or step down to the STF-2, SVS PB10-NSD ($429 + shipping), Rocket ULW-10 ($499 + shipping), or maybe the Mirage S12 at Vanns ($499 free shipping).

Besides the Rocket, I couldn't think of any other smaller subs in your price range that I would recommend. Maybe someone else will chime in with more sealed choices.

None :-) j/k

When I was in a apartment, my neighbor's were always bitchin about my sub, and I just had a puny 8" Sony :-)

None :-) j/k

When I was in a apartment, my neighbor's were always bitchin about my sub, and I just had a puny 8" Sony :-)

How loud did you have that thing at? I have two of these : http://www.wolfgame.org/Right.JPG, so far no complaints... I asked the gentleman next to me if it bothered him, he said no.

I can turn my clock radio up loud enough to where neighbors would complain, it doesnt really matter much about how big the sub is, but how loud you have it. As much as id love to turn up Hendrix or deep purple past 100DB, Id expect the cops to be here in no less than 10 minutes.

For example, came home one day to my parents house... they wernt home, so I sat down on my younger brother's PC to kill some time. He had some horrid 4" 10W subwoofer (el cheapo pc speakers). Being used to two 15" subs, I just about lost my sanity five minutes into the game. I took the 8" 240W JBL out of my car, put it under his desk, and paired it with a fairly low end crappy HT amplifier/receiver I also had laying in the trunk. To make a long story short, I managed to have most of the pictures on the wall above the PC to fall off and hit the table during an intense game of Battlefield 2, especially while firing the guns in the tanks. I could hear that thing booming quite loudly when I walked outside to the street to greet a friend, and the room I was in has cement walls.

Be reasonable with how loud you go, and talk to your neighbors. Just say something like "I live just next door and I bought a subwoofer, let me know if it bothers you". If you need to rattle window panes while you play games or watch movies, you'd be best off renting a house out past the city limits.

I just lived in a crappy apartment with thin walls.

Yes, I have a shared wall on one side. The sub will be on the opposite end (about 15 feet away) if that matters any. I don't want anything over the top, just something with enough bass to allow me to enjoy listening to music or watching a movie at a reasonable level, given my constraints.

I have been considering trying my Def Tech ProSub80 in my music system again. The problem is that, no matter good it sounds, it is hard to enjoy when I keep thinking that the next "thumps" I hear will be somebody pounding on my door.

How close do you have to stay to $500? If you could stretch it just a bit, you might consider the new SVS SB12. It's considerably smaller than SVS's other monster subs, but from what I've been reading, yields excellent SQ and should still have plenty SPL for a smaller size room. But again, it sells for $699.

TG

I'd buy one of the rocket subs for an apartment.

They are CHEAP and according to craig they are very very decent performers for the price!

really great deal at only $200
$199 Rocket X-Sub: 78 points


Great little $100 performer
$99 Rocket Tyke: 60 points

I second the x-sub from Onix. I had a friend buy one on my recommendation and she is very happy with it. She has shared walls with neighbors on both sides. While we were setting up the thing (using Fellowship of the Ring) we got a knock at the door. It was the common wall neighbor closest to the sub asking why her kitchen was shaking.....sweet. A day or two later, her Auralex Subdude arrived. They do help to transfer less of the physical impact of the sub into the structure. I think that this 8" sub with a subdude, not corner loaded, should be good for any apartment and still keep the neighbors somewhat friendly :p

An Auralex GRAMMA pad might help isolate the sound from being transferred into the frame of the building.

If I may offer a tip for a sub in apartment living. I picked up a 12" square, 1.5" thick, dark red paving slab (used for walkways) and (6) "Sorbathane" half Moon rubber like pads under a 60 lb. 12" M&K sub. Absolutely no vibration transmitted to the floor or walls - just deep bass sound.

I was wondering if you guys could give me some recommendations as to what sub I should consider for a loft apartment.
There are tons of great subs out there, but what is you budget?

Velodyne "DD" series.

I have decided to try my Def Tech sub again. After much effort, I have gotten the crossover, volume, and placement adjusted so that it sounds right in my listening position.
Unfortunately, it sounds much louder in other parts of the room, particularly near corners. I hope none of these "hot spots" occur in a neighbors apartment. I am going to try using for at least a week. If there are no complaints in that time, maybe I can relax and really enjoy it. In theory, a tiny 8" woofer in a 20' sq. room doesn't seem like it should put out enough bass to bother the neighbors, but it does sound loud.

To be honest I don't think I'd spend a lot of money on a sub if I were you. Apartment living is the HT lovers nightmare. No matter where you live the people around you will hear/feel the bass. If you really really want a sub I'd buy something SMALL....the Rocket Tyke for only $199 would be a good one...

Then when you really get a place of your own then you can spend more money on a bigger and better sub...

So you know I used to live in an apartment (3.5years) and it was built like a tank....you couldn't hear a THING from the neighbors....I think there were 8inch solid walls and floors all around...BUT even if I tried to turn up my system a little bit I could get a phone call yelling at me... That is when I had a CRAPPY Cerwin Vega Subwoofer too. I could only imagine what they would have done if I had a GOOD Sub like SVS or HSU...ect

(I'd like to get dual stacked F113's and go back there and scare the **** out of those people) LOL :D

My 6.5" logitech sub was loud enough to get the guy two stories above me pissed. Then again, even my bose 5.25" sub is loud enough that the girls want it turned down. Loud and good sounding are two entirely different things.

The fact remains that lower frequencies can travel through walls pretty darn easy.

Subs and HT are just not made for Condo and Apartment life.

Save your money until you buy a house.....for now, spend your money on great mains, center and surround speakers and don't even buy a sub.

Obviously the ideal solution here is to have your neighbor be your brother, like mine is. A brother who routinely lets himself into your apartment to borrow milk, and then doesn't put it back before morning, so that when you wake up, you have no choice but to eat dry cereal for breakfast. And you get very grumpy when you haven't had a good breakfast.

But at least then you can feel free to watch movies with as much bass as you damn well please. :D

We're moving into a townhome in the summer and I'm planning on a HSU sub... Neighbors better not complain....

Take a look at a Dayton 10" Titanic MKIII Kit from Parts Express. I bought this
sub for a second (smaller) home theater. It's a sealed sub, about 14" H, W D.
Took me an hour to assemble (if you can turn a screwdriver, you can assemble
this kit). It's a sealed sub that's great for music and very good for home theater
also. This sub out of all the subs I've used was the easiest to integrate with
my main speakers. It's pretty plain looking, but the money was put into the
10" driver, cabinet and 240W power supply. $358.00 plus shipping.
Worth a look.

If you don't care for it send it back (45 day trial period).
Worth a look....vardo

I was in the same situation as you (living in an apartment). For a long time I tried not to bother getting a sub. I told myself I listened to music most of the time so I wasn't missing out too much. But whenever I watched movies or played games, I felt like I was missing out a little.

I eventually decided to get an Onix X-Sub. I've been very satisfied with it. It works well with music and adds some much-needed punch to movies. It's pretty small, only 8". I don't know if that's too small for the amount of space you have in your loft.

Still, I'd recommend getting a sub. You can always turn it down, and if you talk to the neighbors you can probably work something out.

B&W PV1 + set of butt kickers. The PV1 is great becuase the sub itself sends absolutely no vibrations. yes it still pumps out some serious base so you will probably only have it set to 50%, but as far as a sub goes in an appartment its your best bet in my opinion.

Use the buttkickers to give you that extra punch your neighbors wont hear.

If I may offer a tip for a sub in apartment living. I picked up a 12" square, 1.5" thick, dark red paving slab (used for walkways) and (6) "Sorbathane" half Moon rubber like pads under a 60 lb. 12" M&K sub. Absolutely no vibration transmitted to the floor or walls - just deep bass sound.

Interesting idea. I found these 12x12x1/8 pads and will give it a try.
http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp?pn=3037000&cmc=CROSS_SELL&Shock+Absorbing+Sorbothane&bhcd2=1171825240

Good find!

I Like Lots of thumbing bass and I dont unststand why if there is a Max setting you cant have it on max all the time. There can NEVER be too much bass

and it can Never be too loud! :D

I've been lucky since picking up my PB12-NSD w/ SBS 5.1 set. That sub gets plenty loud, but I'm good about watching stuff at above normal levels only on the weekends, or right after I get off of work in the afternoon.

To be honest, I think most people really don't mind (no one has ever approached me). Their are more cars with subs that drive through the apartment area with their stereos at full blast, and more vehicles with loud exhausts that like to let everyone know they have loud exhausts living here (neighbor below me is one of them).

You can get away with a little more sub than needed for an apartment, you just gotta be a little curtious as to when you want to really crank the volume up.

The SVS 25-31 PCi or SB12-Plus would be good for the small footprint, but the 25-31PCi would be closer to your budget.

1. Your budget. $200 - $600 + S/H. I'm looking for a quality Sub that would blend in well with my Definitive Tech ProMonitor 1000s and ProCenter 2000. Chet from DefTech Support indicated the ProMonitor is flat down to 85Hz. My short list includes but is not limited to:

AV123 X-Sub - I'm put-off by the audible hum when entering sleep mode which users indicate disrupts their movie watching experience. I like the size and finish. I wonder if I will be satisfied with an 8" Sub at modest listening levels...

AV123 MFW-15 - If I had my own home, this would be my #1 choice. Given my apartment situation, I know I will never be able to use this Sub to the fullest. Too much headroom for my needs? If the gain was turned way down, would the sound of this Sub still be superior to a lesser Sub (one with less speed and extension)?

HSU STF-1 - Seems overpriced when compared to the X-Sub. Though I would save on shipping because I'm local. Also, I've read that I could probably receive a cash discount.

HSU STF-2 - At $349 + tax, I think I could be swayed to an Epic Valor if the superior quality of bass is evident at moderate to low listening volumes.

Epik Valor - Again, is this too much Sub for my needs? There's only a $70 (price and S/H) difference from the MFW-15. From the glowing reviews of the MFW-15, that would be my choice given the small difference in price. I'm patient.

2. Size requirements/limits. 22H X 16W X 22D.

3. Room dimensions. 1700 cubic foot living room that forms an "L" in to a 500 cubic foot dining area. The living room is carpeted while the dining area is tiled.

4. Primary uses. 75% HT/TV viewing, 20% music, 5% gaming

5. Listening habits. My listening will always be at moderate levels so that I don't upset my neighbors. I'm looking for a "full" sound that doesn't cause my furniture or apartment walls to shake.

6. Appearance requirements. I'm partial to the AV123 Satin Black. Epik's black finish is in the middle with HSU at the bottom.

7. Timeframe. I'm in no hurry. I'd like to get the "right" Sub rather than compromise.

I'm also looking for a sub for apt use. I live in a two family home on the first floor. My landlord is my upstairs neighbor but he is a young guy and actually pretty cool. He knows i'm getting a sound system but still i'd like to be respectful and not blast him out of his chair lol. I'm in a 12x18 living room, with everything set up in a 12x14 area. The extra 4ft is seperated by an archway and basically just like an extension of the room.

I have Polk RTi10 fronts.
CSiA4 center channel
Rears still undecided.
Pioneer Elite 92 receiver

The two mostly recommeded seem to be ED and HSU. The HSU STF-2 fits into my budget. But if there are better ones for the price that would be great.
I have opted not to get a polk receiver after hearing they come up short compared to the rest of the products they make.

I believe the eD is $350 shipped. It likely out-muscles the HSU with its 72 lb. weight and 12 in. woofer. Personally, I find the eD truck bed liner finish ugly.

The more I think about it, I may pick up the STF-2 on Monday because I can take advantage of HSU's 30-day satisfaction guarantee. Our room sizes are very similar if your height is 8 ft. I'll let you know my thoughts if I happen to pick it up tomorrow.

So I like my neighbors in my connecting walls townhouse and well i bought the A3-300...but that being said, just make sure if you go with an eD sub, you warn your neighbors ahead of time. of course only if you like them

I believe the eD is $350 shipped. It likely out-muscles the HSU with its 72 lb. weight and 12 in. woofer. Personally, I find the eD truck bed liner finish ugly.

The more I think about it, I may pick up the STF-2 on Monday because I can take advantage of HSU's 30-day satisfaction guarantee. Our room sizes are very similar if your height is 8 ft. I'll let you know my thoughts if I happen to pick it up tomorrow.


eD shipping is free, the eD A2-300 is currently $315...

1. Your budget. $200 - $600 + S/H. I'm looking for a quality Sub that would blend in well with my Definitive Tech ProMonitor 1000s and ProCenter 2000. Chet from DefTech Support indicated the ProMonitor is flat down to 85Hz. My short list includes but is not limited to:

AV123 X-Sub - I'm put-off by the audible hum when entering sleep mode which users indicate disrupts their movie watching experience. I like the size and finish. I wonder if I will be satisfied with an 8" Sub at modest listening levels...

AV123 MFW-15 - If I had my own home, this would be my #1 choice. Given my apartment situation, I know I will never be able to use this Sub to the fullest. Too much headroom for my needs? If the gain was turned way down, would the sound of this Sub still be superior to a lesser Sub (one with less speed and extension)?

HSU STF-1 - Seems overpriced when compared to the X-Sub. Though I would save on shipping because I'm local. Also, I've read that I could probably receive a cash discount.

HSU STF-2 - At $349 + tax, I think I could be swayed to an Epic Valor if the superior quality of bass is evident at moderate to low listening volumes.

Epik Valor - Again, is this too much Sub for my needs? There's only a $70 (price and S/H) difference from the MFW-15. From the glowing reviews of the MFW-15, that would be my choice given the small difference in price. I'm patient.

2. Size requirements/limits. 22H X 16W X 22D.

3. Room dimensions. 1700 cubic foot living room that forms an "L" in to a 500 cubic foot dining area. The living room is carpeted while the dining area is tiled.

4. Primary uses. 75% HT/TV viewing, 20% music, 5% gaming

5. Listening habits. My listening will always be at moderate levels so that I don't upset my neighbors. I'm looking for a "full" sound that doesn't cause my furniture or apartment walls to shake.

6. Appearance requirements. I'm partial to the AV123 Satin Black. Epik's black finish is in the middle with HSU at the bottom.

7. Timeframe. I'm in no hurry. I'd like to get the "right" Sub rather than compromise.

With your space I'd encourage you to check out the SVS PB10-NSD as well. Fits into your budget and size constraints (pushes somewhat close though). For moderate to moderately loud listening this would be a great sub in that size of room.

In regard to having an overkill sub, it's never really a problem and you can't really have too much headroom. The only real problem is that you're paying for headroom at a premium price. I'm sure a Krell MRS ($28000) would sound great in a small room, but at a moderate volume most people couldn't tell much if any difference between that and a say a $2000 sub.

I just can't decide. I held off visiting HSU out of fear of impulse buying an STF-2. What's your vote?

The STF-2 is still on my short list.

HSU STF-2 pros:

-price, ~$349 with no shipping since I'm local. Possibly tax though I'm hoping will be offset by a discount.
-small size, it'll fit nicely in my set-up though it's not as small as the listed size. I have to pull it away from the wall because of the rear port.

Epik Valor pros:

-value, price vs. performance. At $633 shipped, it's $280 more but will be future-proofing the need to upgrade if/when I move to a house.
-Prefer the 'sealed' sound over 'ported'.

I just built my own version of the A2-300 (http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=407). Picked up a used 13kv.3 (http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_21&products_id=31) for $80 shipped and this (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-804) amp. Those amps often go on sale for $99, which is what I paid. This way is much cheaper than paying for it, plus you can finish it any way you want. I used roughly the same box volume, but I'm running it sealed with about 1.25lbs of stuffing. This thing sounds sweet, much more than my apartment can handle. It sounds great for music and movies. I'm not sure if I even want to port it at all. It's a great value if you have the means to build it yourself. Hell, Home Depot will even cut the wood to size for you it you have the measurements.

It's more Sub than I can use in my apartment but I chose the Valor because I felt I would never be left wanting for more. Hopefully I'll be overwhelmed with the quality of bass at the low to moderate volumes my apartment situation allows for.

Remember to get a decent sized sub. I learned the hard way. Mine is too small My driver is only "5" and I wish I had a better one or at least one with a meatier amp. Hell tommorow the HTIB will be retired any way along with it's less endowed powered sub.

I am stepping up to an "8" powered sub with the new I mean used $159.00 RCA HTIB!! I might add a second "8" later that will be 16 inches of raw driver action! :eek:

I think I'll stop ranting on my short comings because I am not contributing anything to this thread! :rolleyes:

Raymond, you always seem to be side-grading as opposed to upgrading. Why not save the money to buy "better" equipment instead of "more" equipment. Didn't you just buy the Sony floorstanders? Why buy an HTIB (RCA at that) now? With that $159 dollars you could save another $50 up and get an X-SUB that will make that RCA sub sound like a tweeter or another $100 bucks for an H-100 that will make the RCA sub sound like a clock radio?

Raymond, you always seem to be side-grading as opposed to upgrading. Why not save the money to buy "better" equipment instead of "more" equipment. Didn't you just buy the Sony floorstanders? Why buy an HTIB (RCA at that) now? With that $159 dollars you could save another $50 up and get an X-SUB that will make that RCA sub sound like a tweeter or another $100 bucks for an H-100 that will make the RCA sub sound like a clock radio?

Listen to this advice! HTIB subs are a no-no! :D

Luckily in my apartment my eD A2-300 is up against an outside wall that has more sound-proofing and insulation than an interior wall and I haven't gotten one complaint yet on it even when I play it loud for movies here and there.

I have an MFW-15 in an apartment. I share a wall with one other apartment (some over-privileged 22 yr old and his g/f) . Weekends my neighbors have only mentioned it once at 1:00 AM when my friends and I were playing Rock Band on a Saturday night (which we do every Saturday from around 7 or 8 until somewhere between 12 and 2:30 AM). I consider that bullshit, because that little prick should not be able to afford this apartment in the first place, much less be renting this far off campus (he has stated he is still in school), and quite frankly he can piss off if he has no life at age 22 and wants to go to sleep at 10 on a Saturday. I can't REMEMBER a night that I was home on a Saturday night when I was 22 unless we were there having a party... but I digress.

I get my downstairs neighbors pounding on the ceiling (has happened once) the one time I tried to do movie approaching reference volume on a weeknight. It was a demo for a friend, and it was really a one-time thing. They are the resident managers of the building - although I have lived here longer then they. I don't mention when they come stomping home at all hours of the night, or when they do what I can only suspect is some form of sumo-wrestling at 11:30 pm when I am quietly watching my Daily Show/Colbert Report/whatever shows at low volumes, so I expect to get similar courtesy from them when I occasionally watch a show with a little bass.

I plan on buying a house in the next 5 years, which is why I went bigger than necessary. Night Mode on my receiver annoys the living heck out of me, but I use it if I'm watching anything of substance past 10 on a week-night, which is rare anyway.

Obviously apts are sticky situations, but be courteous and respectful and you will probably be ok in most cases. Living in apartments is about compromises, and my main goal is to keep the police from showing up. I don't really care if my neighbors like me or think I'm a great neighbor - just so long as they think I'm a decent enough neighbor that I should not have the cops called on me.

Listen to this advice! HTIB subs are a no-no! :D

I know, I was going to get a better sub for the system anyway.

Raymond, you always seem to be side-grading as opposed to upgrading. Why not save the money to buy "better" equipment instead of "more" equipment. Didn't you just buy the Sony floorstanders? Why buy an HTIB (RCA at that) now? With that $159 dollars you could save another $50 up and get an X-SUB that will make that RCA sub sound like a tweeter or another $100 bucks for an H-100 that will make the RCA sub sound like a clock radio?

I bought the sony SSB-3000 speakers for my two-channel setup.

The RCA is for a seperate Movies only setup. I bought the RCA because I wanted an HTIB with a SEPERATE Receiver and not an integrated one. It can be upgraded as the sub output is a speaker-level output and the original sub is just a temporary one till I get the 100 watt "8" audiosource powered sub.
and If not I'll buy the "8" sony sub or build an "8" passive one myself but my woodworkig skills are not that good.


I am far from an audiophile, I am more of a Mid-Fi Guy myself . Now all I need is a good TT for my 2-channel music- only setup.

I have A LOT less equipment than I used to now if i could only take that wire spagetti.