Genesis have a press conference scheduled for next week where is is expected they will announce a 2007 Reunion Tour. It is also rumoured that they will announce the release of their back catalog in SACD 5.1.

Fingers crossed!!

Is that a reunion with Peter Gabriel or just Phil?

Looks like only Banks, Collins, Rutherford...

This is the 78-92 lineup, though according to everyone (except Hackett, no word from him on this), a full reunion of the "big five" is a possibility for 2008-9. Gabriel has stated his willingness to do so but could not commit before 2008. The other three wanted to go ahead, probably because they have the time and desire AND because, in a way, two reunions make sense. A full reunion would likely focus on early material while the "threesome" reunion will cover a much larger repertoire. Just my 2 cents.

Oh boy, I can only hope this time the release of the 5.1 back catalog is true. Been waiting for those for years, rumored to come out every six months and then nothing.

And record companies wonder why their revenues are down. The idiots...

As of this post, this is unconfirmed. Genesis will have a press conference on 11/07/2006 (UK time).....

SACD/DVD Double Disc Sets in re-mastered 5.1 Surround Sound & Stereo Mixes:

March 2007: A Trick Of The Tail (1976), Wind & Wuthering (1977), …And Then There Were Three…(1978), Duke (1980) Abacab (1981)

June/July 2007: Genesis (1983), Invisible Touch (1986), We Can't Dance (1991), Calling All Stations (1997)

Fall/Winter 2007/Spring 2008: Trespass (1970), Nursery Cryme (1971), Foxtrot (1972), Selling England By The Pound (1973), The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway (1974)

http://billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003353269

Ovation,
Your comment about the reunion with Gabriel makes sense with how they are releasing the new SACD/DVDs. I was upset that the first bulk comes out in the spring, and that we have to wait another full year before getting the old stuff (Most of the Gabriel Era was re-mixed first). But if that is going to at the same time as a full tour with Gabriel, it makes sense, at least from a marketing standpoint, and not from a rabid fan standpoint.

Anyone else find it odd that they're releasing in both SACD and DVDA? I don't know if I should interpret this as a positive or a negative....

I wouldn't think the DVD is DVD-A, but instead DVD-V with lossy DD.

I'd be inclined to agree with Paul - it simply says DVD.

This is fantastic news for fans of the SACD format. Hopefully Phil will release some of his back catalogue as well - I'd like to have a 5.1 of No Jacket Required.
:)

Full statement from Genesis.
http://www.genesis-music.com/genesispr.htm
Press Information: London 7 November 2006

Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford of the iconic band Genesis unveiled the dates for their first tour in 15 years. Turn It On Again - the tour, will see the band play a series of stadium concerts in Europe in the summer of 2007. Kicking off in the Olympic Stadium, Helsinki on 11 June, the tour will hit twelve different European countries, ending in Rome on 14 July. At a Pan-European press conference staged today at London's exclusive Mayfair hotel and hosted by comedian and lifelong Genesis fan, David Baddiel, the band took questions from international media about their reasons for reforming and thoughts on the tour.

European tour promoter, John Giddings, commented:
"It is a privilege to work with one of the greatest rock bands of all time, and to see their musical talent together again onstage will be incredible. The live shows are as famous as their music."

The "Turn It On Again" tour will be travelling to all the biggest stadiums as it treks across Europe in 2007 through Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, Germany, France, Holland, UK, Monte Carlo and Italy. For all European tour dates, please go HERE.

Tickets will be on sale for UK dates on 24 November and for dates in Germany on 10 November. Other on-sale dates to be announced.

Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford will be joined on stage by long time Genesis sidemen, Chester Thompson on drums and Daryl Steurmer on guitar. Two of the world's greatest show technicians, award-winning lighting designer Patrick Woodroffe and acclaimed set designer Mark Fisher are working on plans for the 2007 Genesis tour.

Genesis have sold over 130 million albums, it is one of a small elite of British bands who have achieved global success and sustained it over four decades. Genesis was formed in 1966 by Tony Banks, Peter Gabriel, Mike Rutherford and Anthony Phillips, while still at school, but its most successful incarnation was the late 70's early 80's line-up of Phil Collins taking on lead vocals and sharing songwriting, with Rutherford and Banks. The Duke album topped the UK charts in 1980 with the hit single, Turn It On Again monopolising the airwaves. In 1987, Genesis played sold out stadium shows across the globe, including four consecutive Wembley Stadiums.

To coincide with the Genesis tour, EMI Records will be re-issuing 14 Genesis studio albums in three stages during 2007. All the releases will be SACD/DVD double disc sets featuring newly re-mastered 5.1 surround sound and stereo mixes. The release schedule is as follows:

March 2007: A Trick Of The Tail (1976), Wind & Wuthering (1977), …And Then There Were Three…(1978), Duke (1980) Abacab (1981)

June/July 2007: Genesis(1983), Invisible Touch(1986), We Can't Dance (1991), Calling All Stations(1997)

Late 2007/Early 2008: Trespass (1970), Nursery Cryme (1971), Foxtrot (1972 ), Selling England By The Pound (1973), The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway(1974)

I'd be inclined to agree with Paul - it simply says DVD.

This is fantastic news for fans of the SACD format. Hopefully Phil will release some of his back catalogue as well - I'd like to have a 5.1 of No Jacket Required.
:) Hear hear! Sussudio in SACD 5.1! Woohoo! :D :D :D


fuad

Hear hear! Sussudio in SACD 5.1! Woohoo! :D :D :D


fuad
HaHa. I agree though. For me, the last good Genesis album was Wind & Wuthering (and even it was not up to their previous standards.) :cool:

I really liked Selling England, Abacab and Invisible Touch, but if they're all being released on SACD then I'd be a lot more likely to delve into some of the other albums.

I really liked Selling England, Abacab and Invisible Touch, but if they're all being released on SACD then I'd be a lot more likely to delve into some of the other albums.
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, in particular, is a classic on a par with Dark Side of the Moon (and even trippier!) You should very definitely check that one out. :)

I wouldn't think the DVD is DVD-A, but instead DVD-V with lossy DD.

Sounds like the Depeche Mode imports with SACD and a DVD-V disc. Which means if the Genesis discs are released in the US they'll probably drop the SACD part of the main disc and just release it as a CD/DVD-V like they did with all the DM releases.

That is correct, the DVD will be DTS 24/96 and Dolby Digital 5.1 - not DVD-A; SACD dis will be a hybrid disc.

Regardless of whether people prefer the Collins or Gabriel ers, this is GREAT news for hi-rez surround sound fans.

I really liked Selling England, Abacab and Invisible Touch, but if they're all being released on SACD then I'd be a lot more likely to delve into some of the other albums.

Wow, that is quite a span. I do not think any two Genesis albums are as far apart musically than Selling England and Invsible Touch. If you like those, then I would think almost certainly you will like all their other albums.

My wording could have been better. I don't dislike any of Genesis's albums, I just prefer their older ones. I enjoy them all, with the exception of a few songs.
I think TLLDOB is their all-time classic.

And I just purchased several Genesis CD's recently.... do I double dip???!?!?

I would love to have a live version TLLDOB...

Almost thought this was a thread about running a Sega Genesis through one of those Auzentech cards, LOL

Man on the Corner and all of Duke, Abacab and Genesis (home by the sea) are going to sound great

And I just purchased several Genesis CD's recently.... do I double dip???!?!?

If you have an SACD player then I'd say.......hell yeah!
Sounds like the Depeche Mode imports with SACD and a DVD-V disc. Which means if the Genesis discs are released in the US they'll probably drop the SACD part of the main disc and just release it as a CD/DVD-V like they did with all the DM releases.
I never realised they did that - that's bloody rude!
Are the UK releases SACD Multi-channel or just SACD Stereo?
Thanks.

Are the UK releases SACD Multi-channel or just SACD Stereo?
Thanks.

Hybrid SACD with Multichannel & Stereo.

Hybrid SACD with Multichannel & Stereo.
Suh-wing Batta!
:)

Looks like AmazonUK will get a lot of transatlantic $$$$.

Looks like AmazonUK will get a lot of transatlantic $$$$.

That's what happened when Dire Straits' announced its "Brothers in Arms" SACD. Like Genesis (and Bjork, Depeche Mode, Mark Knopfler), Dire Straits is signed to a Warner Music Group label in the US. WMG is a proponent of the DVD-A format and thus no SACD for the US for any of the above-mentioned artists. Dire Straits eventually was released in the US on DVD-A....as part of a DualDisc.

If Phil Collins ever decides to release his albums on hi-rez, same situation as above.

I own Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms" on SACD, as well as Mark Knopfler's "Shangri-la". The former is one of the best SACDs I have heard.

Both can be purchased in the U.S. here:

Brothers in Arms SACD (http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MERSAM9871498)
Shangri-La SACD (http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MERSAM9867715)

Yeah I bought Dire Straits Brothers In Arms on SACD as well. It was not an import.
Very nice disc indeed.
Looks like AmazonUK will get a lot of transatlantic $$$$.
They just got &25 from me for some Depeche Mode SACDs.
Found two titles that I want (Songs and Violator) for 8 pounds and change.

For all of you Gabriel fans out there, if you don't have "Up" on SACD then i would recommend picking it up. I just wish all of his solo efforts had been given this treatment. If you want to check out your sub levels, this is a great disc to do it on.

And I just purchased several Genesis CD's recently.... do I double dip???!?!?

I would love to have a live version TLLDOB...

Then buy Genesis Archives Volume 1. It's a four disc set with the first 2 cds being the Lamb live. Extraordinary stuff.

Why not the live albums while they're at it?

2008 :( Ugh!!

As of this post, this is unconfirmed. Genesis will have a press conference on 11/07/2006 (UK time).....

SACD/DVD Double Disc Sets in re-mastered 5.1 Surround Sound & Stereo Mixes:

March 2007: A Trick Of The Tail (1976), Wind & Wuthering (1977), …And Then There Were Three…(1978), Duke (1980) Abacab (1981)

June/July 2007: Genesis (1983), Invisible Touch (1986), We Can't Dance (1991), Calling All Stations (1997)

Fall/Winter 2007/Spring 2008: Trespass (1970), Nursery Cryme (1971), Foxtrot (1972), Selling England By The Pound (1973), The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway (1974)

Second the "Up" recommendation. Dynamic range on that one is particularly good, make sure your room is very quiet to pick up all the small details. I just got the 2-ch "Shaking the Tree" a few days ago and that one is pretty good, but of course 5.1 would have been even better.

Also I think the Genesis SACD news is fantastic. I've always loved their music (both Gabriel and Collins periods). I'll go for import if it comes to that.

2007/2008 for the Gabriel-era Genesis? Ugh indeed! I have serious doubts about Gabriel touring with Genesis again. He looks ancient and barely gets around on the stage - as during the UP tour when he was most active when he got on a Segway-) Don't get me wrong, I worship the man and consider the early Genesis songs among the most erudite and musical in pop history. However, the Genesis-tribute band, The Musical Box, captures the 70's era Genesis in a manner that may be impossible for the original band members to recreate. Returning to the thread, why make us fans wait for another looong year to get our hands on these long-awaited surround-sound remasters??? Nick Davis had remastered them almost a year ago from what I gather. A lot can happen in a year. If the sales of the Collins-era remasters or the tour don't sell as well as expected the suits could kill the subsequent releases! Yikes!

I have serious doubts about Gabriel touring with Genesis again. He looks ancient and barely gets around on the stage
Wha, are you like 15 so you think anyone over 40 is geriatric? :eek: He looks very healthy and active for his age on the "Growing Up" DVD.

I've seen both the most recent Gabriel and Collins tours in N. America and they each looked pretty fit for men in their mid-50s, Collins especially so. They don't jump around like David Lee Roth did in the seventies, but then again, they never did (well, the trippy light show with swinging robotic arms during "Shock the Monkey" on the "So" tour had Gabriel hopping, but that's an exception). Besides, Gabriel has pretty much been on a non-stop 4 year tour since the release of "Up".

I saw Gabriel do SEBTP and LLDOB. These 2 performances are probably my all time favorites. Of course, what I was taking might have had something to do with it, but Gabriel's combination of visual dance, gestures, costuming and vocals will not be duplicated ever again. He still gives glimpses of what it was like and it's still a great show...but it's just shadows of his greatness.

2007/2008 for the Gabriel-era Genesis? Ugh indeed! I have serious doubts about Gabriel touring with Genesis again. He looks ancient and barely gets around on the stage - as during the UP tour when he was most active when he got on a Segway-) Don't get me wrong, I worship the man and consider the early Genesis songs among the most erudite and musical in pop history. However, the Genesis-tribute band, The Musical Box, captures the 70's era Genesis in a manner that may be impossible for the original band members to recreate. Returning to the thread, why make us fans wait for another looong year to get our hands on these long-awaited surround-sound remasters??? Nick Davis had remastered them almost a year ago from what I gather. A lot can happen in a year. If the sales of the Collins-era remasters or the tour don't sell as well as expected the suits could kill the subsequent releases! Yikes!

PG was hanging upside down for an entire song wearing gravity boots on one of his DVDs. Wouldn't he have to be somewhat fit to do that? "Barely gets around the stage" WTF unless he developed some illness recently I don't think you know what you are talking about IMO.

What are we expecting jumping jacks or janet jackson dance routines??!!? Rolling Stones are still at it and they have a few years on Genesis. As long as they can still play I'm all for it. Thanks for the heads up on the Genesis live discs!

PG was hanging upside down for an entire song wearing gravity boots on one of his DVDs. Wouldn't he have to be somewhat fit to do that? "Barely gets around the stage" WTF unless he developed some illness recently I don't think you know what you are talking about IMO.

Don't forget the bicycling and the zorb ball (which weighs more than you'd think and can be quite the workout to make it bounce) And the sledgehammer electrical jacket was rumored to be 70lbs plus to boot. The boy goes sking a lot too. It's a miracle he's a little pudgy in the first place. :-)

Gabriel could no doubt handle the on-stage histrionics, but can his voice still handle the old Genesis songs? His voice has gotten very gravelly, and I think (but could be wrong) that it's gotten deeper as well. They might have to lower the key a step or two.

BTW, this is not a mean-spirited swipe at Gabriel. Everybody's voice gets rougher and lower as he gets older; pop musicians are especially prone due to abusing their voices for years.

Doug

Everybody's voice gets rougher and lower as he gets older
Except Jon Anderson of Yes... despite constant touring for decades, he hits every high note, and they are HIGH!

Except Jon Anderson of Yes... despite constant touring for decades, he hits every high note, and they are HIGH!
I have seen some of the recent Yes DVDs, and you are right, his voice does sound good (if a bit different.) Steve Howe looks like death warmed over, though. :eek: (Fortunately, his playing is not effected.)

Good news about the actual releases, now formally announced. At least it seems well get *some* of our discs.

But what's this BS about the US not getting the SACD's?

I want these badly enough that I'll get them from the UK if I have to fly over there to get them myself; but come on, this is getting ridiculous for one of the worlds greatest bands music to be held back like this.

I really don't care about SACD or DVD-A, I can play both, I just want the multichannel remasters on some format.

Except Jon Anderson of Yes... despite constant touring for decades, he hits every high note, and they are HIGH!

Good point. There's an exception to every rule.

Doug

Good news, but I'll believe it when I see/hear it. :) Especially since the ones I want to buy will be the last ones released (edit: except for Trick of the Tail).

larry

Probably fair to be skeptical, however, I think they are a good bet - particularly since G are going to be touring as well in 2007.

Folks, the next good confirmation of the biggest high-resolution release ever (IMHO!) is the fact that Amazon.co.uk is no longer selling many of the Genesis titles from the 1994 remaster release. This is actually recent because I've made the habit (a little obsessive maybe, but I'm EXCITED!) of checking Amazon every couple of weeks to see if the preorders are being posted. Not two weeks ago many of these same titles were still available for purchase.

They are coming!
Josh :)

Hehehe, guess I struck a nerve with some genesis fans with my tongue-in-cheek swipe at PG. But seriously, if you live anywhere in the vicinity where The Musical Box puts on a show (and they are doing Foxtrot and SEBTP this time around), it will be the closest to seeing the old genesis at its prime. See http://www.themusicalbox.net/ for further information. Until the SACDS are officially released (and I mean the PG-era music), this will be the next best thing to the upmixed 5.1 version of SEBTP that is floating around.

Just saw today on one of the Genesis sites that March 26th has been confirmed as the EU release date for the first batch of Genesis SACDs.

discs are already up on amazon uk site but not for sale at the moment!
i am so stoked!!!

It has been posted on another forum by Nick Davis that the US will get CD/DVD-V (NTSC), EU will get SACD/DVD-V (PAL), and Japan will get SACD/DVD-V (NTSC). If your DVD player doesn't play PAL and you want the DVD as well as the SACD, then importing via Japan would be your best bet.

It has been posted on another forum by Nick Davis that the US will get CD/DVD-V (NTSC), EU will get SACD/DVD-V (PAL), and Japan will get SACD/DVD-V (NTSC). If your DVD player doesn't play PAL and you want the DVD as well as the SACD, then importing via Japan would be your best bet.


So if you have a region free dvd player then the European release will work? In 5.1 of course. Don't see me waiting to get the US releases, if they ever happen.
Joe

Your player has to be both region free AND PAL capable for the European version.

Your player has to be both region free AND PAL capable for the European version.


I believe mine is... I was able to play the British release of the video show on it...
J

What will be on the DVD-V vs the SACD?

What will be on the DVD-V vs the SACD?The DVD-V will have DD and DTS (presumably 96/24) MCH versions of the music for those who don't have SACD MCH playback capability but DO have a DVD player. In Europe and Japan, the SACD hybrid disc is a single-inventory release--for those without SACD playback, it will be the CD portion of a CD + DVD package.

Genesis SACDs are now available at HMV.co.jp for purchase and for a very reasonable price, even after US shipping. At this time it appears they are only selling the European edition of the releases, including the first box set, which includes all 5 double-disc albums and at least one bonus disc with b-sides and other rarities. All DVDs in the European release, to be clear, are PAL/Region 0. If you are planning on purchasing the European version of these albums, buying from Japan may be cheaper than buying from England considering the US/UK conversion rate. The release date at HMV.co.jp is stated as both April 2 and March 25. . .I'm sure they'll converge on one eventually. ;) Either way, my order is in given the current sale they are having and I can always cancel if the situation warrants. I know I couldn't resist clicking the "Place Order" button! Exciting! :D

HMV.co.jp also has a rewards program where you earn points for each purchase upon shipping. I'm not sure how many points I'll receive, but I'm sure I'll be able to save a least a few hundred yen on the next box set. We'll see.

Best,
Josh

PS - CD Universe and Music Direct are also allowing pre-orders, but they are very expensive. Music Direct actually has all albums available for pre-order. It looks like July for the next batch and LLDOB comes in December, at least for the moment. ;)

Available for pre-order at Amazon.UK today.

Wow, 95 pounds (approx. $180) for the box set version! Pretty steep!

Folks,

I've been tracking Internet merchants selling the SACDs for a few weeks now. Due to the fact that many fans are in search of the right format and the best price, I provide updated lists with links and prices in multiple currencies on the Genesis official forum in the following thread:

Genesis Forum - "Genesis SACDs. . .Now Appearing At. . ." (http://www.genesis.invisionzone.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=5152&view=findpost&p=98807)

It will updated as often as necessary, so I recommend checking back for updates. At this time, North American fans' best bet is HMV.co.jp by a large margin.

I hope it can help you,
Josh

Josh, thanks for putting that list together.

Folks,

I've been tracking Internet merchants selling the SACDs for a few weeks now. Due to the fact that many fans are in search of the right format and the best price, I provide updated lists with links and prices in multiple currencies on the Genesis official forum in the following thread:

Genesis Forum - "Genesis SACDs. . .Now Appearing At. . ." (http://www.genesis.invisionzone.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=5152&view=findpost&p=98807)

It will updated as often as necessary, so I recommend checking back for updates. At this time, North American fans' best bet is HMV.co.jp by a large margin.

I hope it can help you,
Josh

Thanks Josh. Great list. One question though - ref your statement of NTSC for these initial releases on hmv.co.jp - I searched the product codes on that site (eg W3859702 for Duke) and found it as listed as European PAL on this site:
http://worldofgenesis.com/NEWS-JAN2007.htm

It's all very confusing so far as I have yet to find a 'listing' of NTSC for any release so far other than Nick Davis' statements that Japan will be NTSC..... both hmv.co.jp and amazon.co.jp state 'European' - which could mean anything.

One question though - ref your statement of NTSC for these initial releases on hmv.co.jp - I searched the product codes on that site (eg W3859702 for Duke) and found it as listed as European PAL on this site:

Hi Paul,

Yeah, HMV.co.jp's information is contradictory. I originally listed the site as selling the European (PAL) version of the SACDs. This was due to the fact that the SACDs and first box set are listed as "Europe Version". This is consistent with other "Europe Version" products on HMV's website as being imports from Europe and, though no reference to PAL was made on the product pages, logic would dictate that PAL is what they would be getting as an import from Europe. However, a couple of forum members over at the Genesis site e-mailed HMV to ask if it was PAL or NTSC and, as a result, the box set product page (http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/2515278) now lists the DVDs as NTSC. This is why I put a question mark next to "Japanese Version" on my list. No one really knows for sure what HMV is selling yet.

I'll continue to make changes and additions as we learn more. Personally, I saved over 80 dollars buying the box set from HMV and my Denon 2910 can happily process NTSC or PAL, so I'm not concerned about which one I get.

I still think that HMV has little idea what they really are listing. World Of Genesis took that information about the Japanese version being NTSC from Nick Davis over at the Genesis forum and got the product code from HMV.co.jp. . .so it's just a circular reference. Nick did state the Japanese version would be NTSC. . .and I believe Japan televisions are NTSC format, so that makes sense.

My instinct tells me that these are really the European versions with PAL discs and that HMV isn't selling the Japanese versions yet because no release date has been announced for any SACDs outside of Europe. One other possibility is that EMI is manufacturing the Japanese (NTSC) version in Europe and shipping stock to Japan. That doesn't seem likely to me but Universal is doing just that for the USA "imports" of the Moody Blues SACDs so it's possible. It's really a guessing game right now though.

Hope this helps,
Josh

I'm curious why Acoustic Sounds shows a release date of Mar 26 and Music Direct has it at Mar 7.

Hi Paul,

-snipped-see above

Hope this helps,
Josh

Josh,

Thanks for this info. I guess we all have to wait and see. As you say, a 'purely Japanese' release will have to be NTSC. I think your instincts are probably correct and the Japanese sites are 'importing' the PAL versions for the time being until they get their Japan/Asia releases. Unfortunately my 59AVi won't do PAL.

Will keep checking back at your link and the other various sites to sift through the madness :)

Paul

Josh, are you sure you not working for Genesis marketing? lol just kidding man! You have done a great job centralizing information for everyone here and at the G site.

FWIW - I haven't seen any of the video content that is included with these releases discussed on this forum, which is going to be very tasty!

Me, I pre-ordered mine at HMV.japan. Bring them on!


Mike

Josh, FYI 28 Jan I preordered 3 x discs for the 25% discount intially and they billed out as 2467 yen per unit plus shipping. I received this email today (for each disc ordered):

--------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for shopping with HMV.co.jp.

===== The new price =====
[Order Number]xxxxxxxx
[Catalogue Number]W3859642
[Artist]Genesis
[Title]Trick Of The Tail (+dvd)(Hyb)
We have been informed of the price change of the pre-ordered item from the manufacturer.
The new price is 3455 yen --> 4400 yen (Incl. Tax).
If you wish to cancel this item, you can cancel this item in "My Account."
When the cancellation is finished, we will let you know via e-mail.
Please note that we cannot restore the item once the cancellation is finished, so we advise you to check the item on the website before you cancel.
Also, after the item is dispatched, the cancellation of the item will not be accepted.
We apologise for the inconvenience.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I look at the website now for individual discs the multibuy price is 3300 yen plus shipping. Works out to be about 32.60CAD (not todays oanda rate but close enough) per disc. Considering my original order was 24.40CAD thats a bump, but still cheapest I can find.

The tax may still have to come out of this price for overseas orders, not sure how intelligent their order email system is....... will see

Josh, are you sure you not working for Genesis marketing? lol just kidding man! You have done a great job centralizing information for everyone here and at the G site.

...

Mike

LOL Mike (a.k.a. Axiom Man)!

Nope, not working for Genesis. . .but man do I wish I was!!! :D ;)

An autographed photo wouldn't be so bad though. . .;)

Thanks for the compliments; I am driven by my passion for the music and high-resolution audio. I badly want these discs to SELL. :confused:
Josh

Josh, FYI 28 Jan I preordered 3 x discs for the 25% discount intially and they billed out as 2467 yen per unit plus shipping. I received this email today (for each disc ordered):
...


Hi Paul,

I hope you don't mind but I used your experience as an example to warn people over at the Genesis forum that we may not be out of the woods with the low prices at HMV.co.jp. The box set price has not changed yet. . .it may be cheaper for you to get the box set now. . .especially if you order two more import CDs.

This is frustrating because my order confirmation e-mail specifically states:

The prices shown here are the maximum prices you will pay for these items. Should the prices of any of these items be lower at the time the order is received, you will receive them at the lower price.

This tells me that HMV.co.jp is being honest about the price change being due to manufacturer's list price changing (meaning it is costing them more to purchase stock). Still frustrating though.

If you visit my latest list update (http://www.genesis.invisionzone.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=5152&view=findpost&p=105083) (constantly changing):
you'll notice that HMV.co.uk is selling the SACDs for 12.99 (UK)/~30 (CAD) each. Plus there is a 5 (UK) off 35 (UK) or more coupon listed there as well. Still, you should just get the box set and enjoy the bonus SACD with the rare tracks/b-sides and the rumored 40-page booklet! (Oops, I'm sounding like a Genesis marketer again! :D)

Best,
Josh

Hi Paul, I hope you don't mind but I used your experience as an example to warn people over at the Genesis forum that we may not be out of the woods with the low prices at HMV.co.jp. Best, Josh

No worries, better to pass it around - I'm following both threads and have passed your link around a couple of other Forums as well.

My main interest is the SACD/NTSC DVD-V otherwise I'd get the amazon.co.uk version and have a buddy who lives in the UK bring them to work with him (I work outside N.America). Same as I did with the original Moody Blues SACD releases, the last 2 Moodys that are coming out and a few of the Talking Heads discs - no Dual Disc for me :)

I think I'll leave my order 'as is' and wait to see how your cancellation goes, then perhaps do the same and get the box set. May still have to cancel if the early hmv.co.jp units are PAL and wait and see if they do get NTSC. Worse case I buy an Oppo as a backup player :)

FWIW my original order stated the same as yours - if the price was cheaper they would pass the savings along - - surprise ;)

Thanks for the info
Paul

LOL Mike (a.k.a. Axiom Man)!

Nope, not working for Genesis. . .but man do I wish I was!!! :D ;)

An autographed photo wouldn't be so bad though. . .;)

Thanks for the compliments; I am driven by my passion for the music and high-resolution audio. I badly want these discs to SELL. :confused:
Josh

You should send a photo to Hit&Run and see if you can get them to sign it. I have heard many stories of folks sending there photo's and letters to Phil Collins PA, and he signs I think everything he can and the fans get it back. I would bet that the rest of the guys would do it as long as they're not itn the middle of the tour.

On another note, I really want these to sell as well. Not only for the potential of future releases, 'Live' material and videos etc., but I would like to see the multichannel medium excel as I love the format!

Mike 'Axiom Man' :D

I think I'll leave my order 'as is' and wait to see how your cancellation goes, then perhaps do the same and get the box set.
Paul

Cancellation and reorder (for double rewards points) from HMV.co.jp went through without any problems. Took 5 seconds to do; and got a confirmation e-mail the next day. :)

Best,
Josh

Cancellation and reorder (for double rewards points) from HMV.co.jp went through without any problems. Took 5 seconds to do; and got a confirmation e-mail the next day. :)
Best,
Josh

OK - thanks again Josh. I cancelled and reordered the Box Set :D

Like many of you I pre-ordered the set from HMV.co.jp. Given they also had a lot of other SACD/DVD-A titles I haven't been able to find easily in the states I ended up ordering 6 other discs - 5 of which arrived on Saturday (Foreigner was slow in coming in so I just adjusted my order so it ships with the Genesis box set). Shipping was remarkably quick from Japan as I'd adjusted my order mid-week & was surprised to have them already. I did have a couple jewel cases crack in transit - annoying but not a huge deal. I also had to sign for the package, which I didn't really expect. The multi-disc discount came close to cancelling out the shipping costs (net cost for shipping was around 100 yen after the discount). Overall I was pleased and manage to pick up some hi-res discs I hadn't been able to find - although "Riding with the King" was the only true surround disc I picked up in this shipment & was quite enjoyable...

Looking forward to when the Genesis discs ship...

I just ordered the BOX SET this morning from the Japan website. They are running a 25% off deal if you buy 2 other "import" discs. I ended up with the Genesis Box for 94$. I also got a David Bowie limited edition CD/DVD with DTS surround (Young Americans) and also a DVD-Audio disc ChicagoII which I haven't seen in stock anywhere else. Hopefully they all make it here in one peice. Thanks to everyone for the info about this site!

I just ordered the BOX SET this morning from the Japan website. They are running a 25% off deal if you buy 2 other "import" discs. I ended up with the Genesis Box for 94$. I also got a David Bowie limited edition CD/DVD with DTS surround (Young Americans) and also a DVD-Audio disc ChicagoII which I haven't seen in stock anywhere else. Hopefully they all make it here in one peice. Thanks to everyone for the info about this site!
I did this too today.
I got the Genesis Box Set (now listed as NTSC Region 0), Ryan Adams Heartbreaker SACD from Mobile FIdelity Sound Labs and a Trey Anastasio DVD-A.
Total order with shipping came to $160 Canadian.
If I order just the box set through UK it would not only be PAL but be over $200.

Thanks HMV Japan. :)

Qucik question about the Bowie Young Americans.
Is it DVD-A or just DTS.Thanks.I think he meant this:
http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=387989
to be released in UK on March 19th, but unfortunately that description does not answer your question ;)

It has been posted on another forum by Nick Davis that the US will get CD/DVD-V (NTSC), EU will get SACD/DVD-V (PAL), and Japan will get SACD/DVD-V (NTSC). If your DVD player doesn't play PAL and you want the DVD as well as the SACD, then importing via Japan would be your best bet.


I heard from someone that he thought sacd's were not region free. Similar to Dvd's. Is that not the case?
thanks for clarifying.
It looks like at this point, the japanese release will be the way to go if you live in the us and can't wait. As well as sacd's being region free of course.
Joe

I heard from someone that he thought sacd's were not region free. Similar to Dvd's. Is that not the case?
thanks for clarifying.
It looks like at this point, the japanese release will be the way to go if you live in the us and can't wait. As well as sacd's being region free of course.
Joe
There's no region coding for SACDs, that's a DVD format parameter.

And further to that, DVD-Audio discs are region-free too. You may still have PAL/NTSC format problems on any video parts of the disc, but the audio parts work okay.

Qucik question about the Bowie Young Americans.
Is it DVD-A or just DTS.Thanks.
David Bowie's website says it's 5.1 DTS 96/24, 5.1 Dolby Digital and 2.0 PCM 48/24.

So the best it can be as 5.1 without being DVD-Audio. :rolleyes:

There's no region coding for SACDs, that's a DVD format parameter.


Thanks Keenan, I was hopeing for that response... I guess its on to look for a good sacd player.
thanks
Joe

There's no region coding for SACDs, that's a DVD format parameter.
Phew, I thought I had missed something along the way when I saw a reference to PAL SACDs. :) There is no region coding for any audio formats.


larry

Picture of the box set,

http://www.camino.co.uk/product/1976-1982_box_set_sacddvd.html
Camino Records - Genesis - SACD - DVD Remasters - 1976-1982 Box Set (SACD/DVD) SACD/DVD (PAL)

Picture of the box set,
http://www.camino.co.uk/product/1976-1982_box_set_sacddvd.html
Camino Records - Genesis - SACD - DVD Remasters - 1976-1982 Box Set (SACD/DVD) SACD/DVD (PAL)Thanks, keenan for the info. Now even better/bigger pictures and the detail info on the release are available here:
http://www.genesis-news.com/genesis/reviews/sacds/1976-1982.htm
Ladies and Gentlemen - it's only ONE MORE MONTH to go, and remember: patience is a virtue !!! :eek:

To the Vendor List with new promotion listed:
http://www.genesis.invisionzone.com/index....st&p=126615 (http://www.genesis.invisionzone.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=5152&view=findpost&p=126615)

To Camino's Box Set Product Page:
http://www.camino.co.uk/product/1976-1982_...et_sacddvd.html (http://www.camino.co.uk/product/1976-1982_box_set_sacddvd.html)

Cool!
Josh :D

CHANGE IN VENDOR LIST LOCATION

Keenan suggested I'd let everyone know that I will be migrating my Vendor List to my Last.fm music site. Bookmark the location (http://www.last.fm/user/SoonerCaniac) if you so choose. You will see a journal entry for the list in the center of the screen.

The change is due to the fact that the official Genesis website and forum are going through changes within the next week that are drawing the ire of many fans and the new forum will be a less desirable location to post the list as a result. Though I'd wouldn't mind posting the list here, it is a long list and I'm trying to avoid having to maintain it at multiple sites. My Last.fm page is a universal location that is a relevant place to put the list. I can also attract other Genesis listeners on Last.fm to the list to encourage them to buy the SACDs as well. The more sales, the better! :D

I do plan on introducing new lists for the next two release "eras" as the release dates approach and as they start appearing on websites. You may comment on the Vendor List if you want to let me know of new sites or new information. Obviously, I cannot catch all sites or changes on my own, so I thank you in advance for your help!

Best,
Josh

Josh, just read on another Forum (posted by El Guapo at Quadraphonicquad).
Acoustic Sounds now shows both sets PAL & NTSC:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/search_results.cfm?id=0&searchtext=1st%2Cset%2Cof%2C5&field=All&OrderBy=Products.Rank&keywords=NL030507

FWIW, I pre-ordered "Trick of the Tail" and "Wind and Wuthering" from Camino Records (autographed by Steve Hackett) and they sent me an e-mail reminding me that these were PAL discs. That's not a problem since my player supports PAL to NTSC conversion, however, they mentioned in the e-mail that, "American NTSC picture format CD/DVD versions of the remasters ARE being released (for the USA, we’ve been told this should be the end of April). Other country/territory specific editions (such as Japan) may also be being released – you’d need to check with your local retailers for more details."

Josh, just read on another Forum (posted by El Guapo at Quadraphonicquad).
Acoustic Sounds now shows both sets PAL & NTSC:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/search_results.cfm?id=0&searchtext=1st%2Cset%2Cof%2C5&field=All&OrderBy=Products.Rank&keywords=NL030507

I have to now debate between the HMV in Japan for about $102 or Acoustic Sounds (looks like a US company) for $130. What to do, what to do.

Are Acoustic Sounds a trustworthy company?

Edit: I just spent $290 on 2 Boston tickets. How'd liking Genesis get so expensive?

Are Acoustic Sounds a trustworthy company?
Being from Canada I don't use them due to 50USD minimum order and UPS as their international delivery method (UPS charges an arm and a leg for Brokerage Fees).

I have heard nothing but good about them from US purchasers otherwise. Others here will probably verify that.

I have to now debate between the HMV in Japan for about $102 or Acoustic Sounds (looks like a US company) for $130. What to do, what to do.

Are Acoustic Sounds a trustworthy company?

Edit: I just spent $290 on 2 Boston tickets. How'd liking Genesis get so expensive?

I would be clear about what it is you are ordering. Appears to me that what many are interpretting as the box set is in fact just a bulk price for the five albums - in other words, no bonus disc or booklet.

Genesis ticket presale was a fiasco - VERY expensive tickets and a dodgy website.

Simon

I would be clear about what it is you are ordering. Appears to me that what many are interpretting as the box set is in fact just a bulk price for the five albums - in other words, no bonus disc or booklet.

Genesis ticket presale was a fiasco - VERY expensive tickets and a dodgy website.

Simon

Good point. I will call/email them (Acoustic sounds) to confirm. Is it confirmed that the HMV Japan one is the box set?

Yeah, very expensive. And the website... :mad: As someone on Paperlate suggsted, they should've just emailed the passcodes and let Ticketmaster deal with the automated ticket broker script. Gee, nobody expected ticket brokers to attack the site. :rolleyes:

Looked a bit further on the Acoustic sounds website .....

Using the SACD/PAL version of the releases as an example, they list two different sets, one for $175 and another for $250. Appears that the former is a bulk sale of the five albums, while the latter is the box set.

They list the SACD/NTSC version of the bulk sale at $130, but do not list the SACD/NTSC version of the box set. If the relative pricing holds, I would expect the SACD/NTSC box set to be in the $165 range.

Less than the price of a single concer ticket :mad: :mad:

For what it's worth, MusicDirect.com and ElusiveDisc.com are doing the same thing regarding bulking all 5 albums together. All three websites are also selling the European boxset. I've noted the differences in price between the box set and the "5 album bulk set" on the vendor list.

Also from that list, you'll see that Best Buy is selling the individual Asian albums for $24.99 each which is actually the best price out there right now. I cannot believe I just said that about Best Buy. . .for once their name is correct! :rolleyes: :p

Best,
Josh

elusivedisk shows the bulk 5 albums in stock. Is this correct??? Have them in my basket, but haven't pulled the trigger to order yet. Anyone know if they could be in stock already?

So, from what I can see, Hmv.co.jp is only place currently that shows a boxset with SACDs and NTSC DVDs. However, it's listed as an unknown edition by the master price list. I'm wondering if I should just wait until the Asian boxset is actually listed somewhere.

elusivedisk shows the bulk 5 albums in stock. Is this correct??? Have them in my basket, but haven't pulled the trigger to order yet. Anyone know if they could be in stock already?
I would call them to verify, I ordered something from them awhile back and it took forever to get it.

Individual and Boxset in NTSC or PAL are now available on the Genesis Website shop. Little spendy but at least NTSC is choosable.

MNSACD

So, from what I can see, Hmv.co.jp is only place currently that shows a boxset with SACDs and NTSC DVDs. However, it's listed as an unknown edition by the master price list. I'm wondering if I should just wait until the Asian boxset is actually listed somewhere.

Hi jalaram,

I put UNKNOWN on the list because HMV.co.jp is saying it's a "Europe Version" of the release but indicates NTSC DVDs. The theory has been that the products are actually being produced in Europe and shipped to Japan. The problem with that theory is that other sites like Best Buy and CDUniverse are listing the Asian versions of the individual albums as being sourced from Hong Kong, NOT Europe. This tells me that HMV.co.jp isn't completely sure yet what is going on. Personally, I ordered from HMV.co.jp anyway because I don't care if it's PAL or NTSC since I can play both and the DVD is region free (that much we do know).

Best,
Josh

elusivedisk shows the bulk 5 albums in stock. Is this correct??? Have them in my basket, but haven't pulled the trigger to order yet. Anyone know if they could be in stock already?

They say in stock but then when you go to the product page it says April 3, 2007. Let us know what you find out. . .just remember that when you buy the bulk set you DO NOT get the box set with the bonus 40+ booklet and SACD+DVD with all the b-sides and rare tracks in multichannel!

Best,
Josh

Individual and Boxset in NTSC or PAL are now available on the Genesis Website shop. Little spendy but at least NTSC is choosable.

MNSACD
90GBP (174USD) plus shipping is a 'tad' high :eek: , but as you say, at least there is the dropdown option for the NTSC box set.

http://www.shopcreator.com/mall/productpage.cfm/Gen/800203

I've still kept my pre-order at hmv.co.jp for 128CAD (109USD) including shipping and hope they are right with their NTSC description even though it says 'European' import.

I went with HMV Japan as well...

You know, I imply that I'm not worried about the HMV.co.jp box set but my only concern is the text. . .I would assume the lyrics are in English (since they are English lyrics!) but what about the bonus essays? My instinct tells me English and this is primarily because it appears the sourcing is coming from only two locations at this time (i.e., UK and Hong Kong). What do you guys and gals think?

So, the point is that there still is some uncertainty here.

Best,
Josh

You know, I imply that I'm not worried about the HMV.co.jp box set but my only concern is the text. . .I would assume the lyrics are in English (since they are English lyrics!) but what about the bonus essays? My instinct tells me English. What do you guys and gals think?

So, the point is that there still is some uncertainty here.

Best,
Josh
:D

Never even considered that, it's a good question, although it won't bother me too much, the music is the important thing for me.

(as long as they don't sing in Japanese.. :eek: :p )

Amazon.com now shows the Asian version of the boxset (http://www.amazon.com/Genesis-1976-1982/dp/B000OCY712/ref=sr_1_2/002-6681687-0126463?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1174191441&sr=8-2) for $137.99 (found by another member of the official Genesis forum).

You will find this listing as well as many other updates (now almost daily) on the vendor list (http://www.last.fm/user/SoonerCaniac/journal/2007/03/16/370842/).

Best,
Josh

PS - Before anyone asks about this. . .the PAL reference is a misprint. There is not going to be a release with NTSC DVDs in each album and a PAL bonus disc. If you go to the European box set page (http://www.amazon.com/Genesis-1976-1982/dp/B000MTOQKE/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-6681687-0126463?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1174191441&sr=8-1), you'll see the exact or nearly exact product description, sans NTSC.

Therefore, Amazon forgot to remove the second PAL reference. Granted, they certainly aren't helping matters, but it seems fairly likely it was an overlook on their part, that's all.

I have to now debate between the HMV in Japan for about $102 or Acoustic Sounds (looks like a US company) for $130. What to do, what to do.

Are Acoustic Sounds a trustworthy company?

Edit: I just spent $290 on 2 Boston tickets. How'd liking Genesis get so expensive?Acoustic Sounds is fine. And now you'll have that $290 to spend.

larry

For those who are concerned about the hmvjapan releases being ntcs or pal, I emailed them last week and they responded saying that these would indeed be ntsc.
Joe

For those who are concerned about the hmvjapan releases being ntcs or pal, I emailed them last week and they responded saying that these would indeed be ntsc.
Joe

Joe, any word from them if the booklet will be in English?

Joe, any word from them if the booklet will be in English?


Great question, I was under the impression that was already answered. I think I read at some point that these are basically English imports. So why wouldn't they be in English? If no one has a definitive answer I can always email them again. I think it took them about two days to reply to my previous mail. They have given me no indication so far that they aren't reputable at all. However my one concern is how long it will take for them to get here. Although I have never had good luck with amazon before.
Joe

Acoustic Sounds is fine. And now you'll have that $290 to spend.

larry

Thanks for the confirmation on Acoustic Sounds. Now, I'm waiting to see how much they sell the box set for instead of the 5 SACDs.

I already spent that $290 twice (the second set was an upgrade on the seats). Now, I've gotta sell those extra pair of tickets. Anyone want to buy two tickets to the Boston show?

They have given me no indication so far that they aren't reputable at all. However my one concern is how long it will take for them to get here. Joe
I have ordered twice from hmv.co.jp (Japanese SACD's) and found their service to be very good. 12 days from order made to being received in Canada with 4 of those days with the items in Canadian Customs.

With the Japanese SACD's I bought, the front and rear writing was in English with a Japanese side sheet inserted along the spine of the case. I think this is typical with the Japanese 'imports', however, I have not read any confirmation anywhere (on about 6 forums I am following this :) ) that this will be the case with the booklet.

[QUOTE=PaulT_BC]I have ordered twice from hmv.co.jp (Japanese SACD's) and found their service to be very good. 12 days from order made to being received in Canada with 4 of those days with the items in Canadian Customs.

Ouch! I don't know if I can wait 12 days for shipping... that is a bummer.
Joe

Ouch! I don't know if I can wait 12 days for shipping... that is a bummer.
If you're shipping to the US, you should see much faster shipping than that for HMV Japan. I'd adjusted an order mid-week as 1 disc was delaying the order and had them delivered on that Saturday. Frankly I was shocked they were able to ship from Japan to the US (OH) in 3 or 4 days.

Now there may have been some advantage that I'd placed the order & then adjusted it when the Foreigner DVD-A was back ordered so the rest of the order may have already been assembled, but overall I was very pleased by the quickness of shipping from HMV Japan.

'Course if you're in Canada, my experience likely means little...

I just ordered mine from the Genesis website. It came to about 151.00. A tad high but I felt safer knowing yes it is the boxed set in NTSC. Now I can't wait to order the boxed set of their earlier music, that's the one I really want. I've always thought Genesis was best when Peter Gabriel was still in the band.

Bill

Ouch! I don't know if I can wait 12 days for shipping... that is a bummer.
Joe I received a standard order from HMV (to Virginia) in 3 days!

Well this is looking better than my first order. My second HMV order was put in 16 March and is already in Customs in Canada 18 March.

I just got an email from the Genesis web site stating that my boxed set cost had droped to 82.99 pounds :).

Bill

I just got an email from the Genesis web site stating that my boxed set cost had droped to 82.99 pounds :).

Bill

But thats $162 dollars! $10 more then you first said it was going to cost???

HA. The Amazon version of the Asian boxset referenced above now shows a cost of $300. HMV, here I come again.

Dang! I thought it was less than $150 or something like that. Should've ordered when it was less.

Dang! I thought it was less than $150 or something like that. Should've ordered when it was less.Well, the one from HMV Japan costs only around $105 w/shipment to USA !
And it is SACDs/DVDs and - yes - it is in NTSC :D :D :D

Amazon.com has the set, w/NTSC DVDs, as an import at about 140$US (I saw it a few days ago). Amazon.ca, however, for some odd reason, has the same set at 265$CDN--even with the exchange rate that's a whopper of a markup. I'll be going with the US one on this.

Amazon.com has the set, w/NTSC DVDs, as an import at about 140$US (I saw it a few days ago).

Yeah, they did, but not right now (see stormchaser's post at the top of the page). This price is popping up at multiple sites and is likely an error as many have already said.

BOOKLET LANGUAGE
Folks, a few members of the official Genesis forum (oGf) have e-mailed HMV.co.jp to ask about the language used for the booklet text. At this time, they are confirming that the Asian boxset (SACD+NTSC DVDs) will have ENGLISH booklets.

HMV.CO.JP ISSUE
In addition, Hmv.co.jp has stopped accepting pre-orders for the Asian boxset (first discovered by another oGf member)! They say: "We regret that we cannot accept orders for this limited item as the available quantity has now sold out" They are selling more than they originally allotted as their inventory. . .a good sign.

RELEASE DATE CHANGES
Finally, yet another oGf member reports that release dates for the Asian boxset are changing at sites like Amazon and CDUniverse to April 17. Possible production delays or maybe even low supply and higher-than-expected demand, which obviously would be teriffic news for the band and SACD.

Updates to the vendor list (see signature) continue almost daily now and I thank you in advance for any and all help you provide!
Josh

BOOKLET LANGUAGE
Folks, a few members of the official Genesis forum (oGf) have e-mailed HMV.co.jp to ask about the language used for the booklet text. At this time, they are confirming that the Asian boxset (SACD+NTSC DVDs) will have ENGLISH booklets.

HMV.CO.JP ISSUE
In addition, Hmv.co.jp has stopped accepting pre-orders for the Asian boxset (first discovered by another oGf member)! They say: "We regret that we cannot accept orders for this limited item as the available quantity has now sold out" They are selling more than they originally allotted as their inventory. . .a good sign.
Josh

Booklet language news - this is great news - Thanks.
hmv.co.jp - glad I made my Order there in the beginning of February :D

Many Thanks Josh - you've put a lot into this.

Did you see this ????
http://www.genesis-box.com/
The link to this exciting animation was posted today on the official Genesis site.

"... 48 page case-bound book with newly written essays ..." - somebody pinch me or I'm dreaming :D :D

I'll add my thanks to Josh. It now looks thought like I'll be shut out of the box set (I didn't get back to HMV in time). The lowest cost I can find now for the box set is $150 whereas I can get the individual releases for well under $100. While I'd love to have the bonus stuff, I am not sure I'll spend $50 plus for them.

I didn't put my order in as well. I was waiting for some cash to free up. :(

True Fan, you are NOT dreaming! :D

For everyone else, you must check out the website True Fan mentioned! The site has 6 full-length samples of the new mixes (in stereo of course, one for each album and one b-side). For streaming audio, those full-length samples are fantastic and quite a TEASE! What a great website for the new box set, which has a tremendous presentation and appearance. This is going to be awesome!

Unfortunately, HMV Japan has now completely removed the product page for the Asian box set from its site. Someone sent an e-mail to HMV Japan and they said that the box set was a limited edition and that they would not be selling any more PERIOD. I've not seen anyone associated with Genesis say that these box sets were limited edition, much less THAT limited such that HMV.co.jp only had one allotment. In other words, I wouldn't be surprised if the box set reappears at HMV Japan once stock improves.

Finally, I've redesigned the vendor list (link at bottom of signature) which should make it much easier to navigate. I always appreciate feedback.

Best,
Josh

I didn't put my order in as well. I was waiting for some cash to free up. :(

The people who pre-ordered from HMV Japan (myself included) may not be out of the woods yet either. . .

My sympathies either way, but I wouldn't lose all hope yet until we get confirmation that supplies will really be that limited.

In the good news department. . .I just noticed Amazon.de has the European boxset ranked at #48 in music and Amazon.fr has it at #91! AWESOME! :D

Best,
Josh

As per this Forum thread on G-site (check the link below) some guys in Ireland, Holland and ...? had already purchased this combo and are putting pictures and reviews here:
http://www.genesis-music.com/members/community/mboard/index.php?topic=2036.0
They look stunning (w/original label's artwork), and - supposedly - sound even better! :D :D :D
That thread made my weekend super-enjoyable, although NOW anticipation is really killing me :eek:

As per this Forum thread on G-site (check the link below) some guys in Ireland, Holland and ...? had already purchased this combo and are putting pictures and reviews here:
http://www.genesis-music.com/members/community/mboard/index.php?topic=2036.0


you need to be a member

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/gbox.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Gbox10.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Gbox9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Gbox8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Gbox7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Gbox6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Gbox5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Gbox4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Gbox3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Gbox2.jpg

BTW, I emailed HMV on the 28th to ask if their ship date was still accurate and the response I got is below, not sure what they mean by "the date has been updated", it hasn't changed since I placed the order months ago. I've got a Mono album on the same order, maybe that's what they're referring to.

Dear Customer,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Order Number:

As for your order, the date has been updated.

When we receive the item you have ordered from our supplier, we will
ship it.
If we do not receive items from suppliers by this date,
we will let you know via e-mail again.

We apologise for the inconvenience.

Also, scene releases of this first set are already showing up on BT sites.

On my 'My Order' page at hmv.co.jp it just went from 'Order In Progress' to 'Waiting For Stock Arrival' when I check the Order Details. The Main Status is still "Order In Progress" but the detail section has changed.

This is at 9am Tokyo time on 02 April.

My order on hmv.co.jp says "order in progress",
"Items ready 1",
"In Transit",
and then has a note that "Please note that you are not able to cancel this order, as it has already entered the despatch process."

What I find impressive though, is that it also says
Estimated Delivery Date: 02 Apr 2007

Japan is a long way from Australia, and there are only about 5 more hours that a parcel might arrive at my door.

I am looking forward to this package (though it is the first albums that I really really want).

Cheers,
Michael

My order from HMV.co.jp for the box set is listed as "in Transit". Needless to say, I'm pretty excited.

My order from HMV.co.jp for the box set is listed as "in Transit". Needless to say, I'm pretty excited.

So does mine! I will be more excited once my credit card gets charged...

You guys better post some impressions on here once you get the set and listen to the SACDs. You know, for those of us who didn't drop $100+ yet and need some encouragement :)

WooHoo - now reads 'In Transit'. My last couple of orders from hmv.co.jp have taken anywhere from 4 to 12 days from Tokyo to West Coast Canada (including a couple of days in Canada Customs). They ship EMS so it is usually quite fast.

BTW when their site says Estimated Delivery Date - that is of the product to hmv, not the product to you. Once it hits the Shipped state, if you click on Track Orders on the left part of the page you will get your EMS tracking number. and can follow the trail :)

There are some comments on the set over at SH Forum - be aware that they are stereo guys who argue about which pressing of a certain disc is the best, so take it with a grain of salt:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2470567&postcount=601

There is also some good chatter and photos at quadraphonic:
http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showpost.php?p=59138&postcount=169

Did anyone else receive an email from HMV this morning stating that their postage estimate was wrong and that it's increased (more than doubled) ?

Thank you for visiting HMV.co.jp.

Your order# is ready to be shipped.
However, the final carriage is higher than the estimate.

Estimate: 1200 (JAPANESE YEN)
Final: 2800 (JAPANESE YEN)

If you wish to cancel your order, please let us know.
We will cancel your order and you will receive the confirmation.
If the final carriage is acceptable, we will ship your order as soon as
we receive your e-mail.
(No overseas shipping during weekends & Japanese national holidays.)

Please note, in the event we do not receive your reply
within 7 days of this e-mail, this order will be cancelled.

Yours sincerely,
HMV IFC

I got the same email, with the same price increase.

Given the product description, I cannot think of any reasonable reason why the postage should increase so much. It is over double!

I accepted the increase in postage (it is not too much per disc), but I am rather annoyed with HMV Japan, and will not trust them in the future.

Just got the same mail. From 12.00 to 28.00CAD (1200 > 2800YEN).

They probably didn't factor in the physical size of the box set. For the size and weight it is not an unreasonable cost from Japan to Canada, however, their estimate should have been better.

In the past I have ordered a single SACD from them and it was 1200 YEN Shipping, so expected somewhat of a bump for this set.

Also FYI - a post by Nick Davis on another Forum where they are complaining of the over compression on the SACD's:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2475786&postcount=658

Got the email today from HMV that my order has shipped. They also provided the EMS tracking number. Since stuff from Japan comes via air, and I'm on the west coast, I expect I'll see it before the weekend.

Never got an email about postage changes.

For the record I made the order on Feb 2.

Hello
Got three of the Genesis SACDs today from Amazon.
Wind and Wuthering - A trick of a tail - And then there were three.
Sounds nice! Nice mix. Could've been a little more level in the lower regions,but this
is possible to optain with a raising of sub level.

Regards from Norway

WooHoo - mine shipped EMS from Japan today. Following it to west coast Canada now :)

keenan - did your shipped email from hmv show you the increased shipping price to 2800YEN or are you a lucky guy and paid 1200?

Really looking forward to this set - too bad we have to wait so long for the 'best' Gabriel era Box.

perzon57 - Hilsen! - Why aren't you in the mountains for Easter with the rest of Norway :)

I wish the Genesis site sent out shipping notification!! I'm really hoping to get it for this weekend (honey don't you and the kids want to go see a movie?) :D .

WooHoo - mine shipped EMS from Japan today. Following it to west coast Canada now :)

keenan - did your shipped email from hmv show you the increased shipping price to 2800YEN or are you a lucky guy and paid 1200?

Really looking forward to this set - too bad we have to wait so long for the 'best' Gabriel era Box.

perzon57 - Hilsen! - Why aren't you in the mountains for Easter with the rest of Norway :)
I'm not really sure what I paid. When I first placed the order I had ordered two other CD as well. The price notated on the order confirmation for the SACD set is 12,951YEN. It also has an arrow pointing downward, not sure what that means, I'm guessing the price dropped right when I ordered, or because I ordered 2 other items at the same time.

In anycase, 1 of the items shipped right away and the other I canceled as they still hadn't received any stock after 2 mos.

Monday night a charge showed up on my credit card for about $135USD which would seem to be for 12,951 plus about 3600(shipping?) for a total of about $135. I'm not sure if the dollar got weaker or stronger since the order was placed. Not sure if I'll know for sure until the shipment arrives, and I can't remember if they notate monetary amounts on the packing slip or not.

I noticed that HMV now has a notation on the product page, "We regret that we cannot accept orders for this limited item as the available quantity has now sold out", so it appears they're not even taking any more orders for the item.

Just tracked my shipment and it arrived at SFO airport customs late last night. I'm about a 2 hour drive north of SFO airport. :)

Just got an email stating that postage increased from 1500 to 3200!!!!

I accepted but was disgusted. This should have been accurate from the time of purchase.

Is there any chance of the B&M stores, ie. Best Buy, Borders, etc. having the individual discs or even the box for sale? I bought the Doors Perception box at a Best Buy store. The first week it was for sale it was discounted like 40% off.

Is there any chance of the B&M stores, ie. Best Buy, Borders, etc. having the individual discs or even the box for sale? I bought the Doors Perception box at a Best Buy store. The first week it was for sale it was discounted like 40% off.

They would have to sell it as an "import", which may command a higher price.

Best Buy is selling the PAL boxset @ $310.00 thru its website.

WRT Bestbuy. SoonerCarniac's list shows the individual albums at a great price ($25 IIRC). The box set meanwhile is a crappy price.

Just got an email stating that postage increased from 1500 to 3200!!!!

I accepted but was disgusted. This should have been accurate from the time of purchase.

Same here. It still seems like a good price...I just hope it makes it here in one piece!

Got it this morning, required a signature BTW, delivered by the USPS.

I paid 12,951yen plus 3200yen shipping, so $138.70 total.

Got it this morning, required a signature BTW, delivered by the USPS.

I paid 12,951yen plus 3200yen shipping, so $138.70 total.But, that was a price for this box + 2 CDs you ordered along with this, right ?

But, that was a price for this box + 2 CDs you ordered along with this, right ?
No, as I said, one of the CDs shipped over a month ago and the other I canceled.

The price on the invoice is 12,951-yen for the item, and 3200-yen for delivery cost.

IOW, at today's rate, $109.17 for the box set and $26.96 for shipping. Obviously the rate varies and I'm not even sure what it was when I placed the order, but both amounts seem very reasonable to me. The shipment only took 3 days to get to 80 miles north of SF from Tokyo. That's one of the advantages of purchasing overseas, 99% of everything comes by air. Now, if you lived in Kansas for example, it may take some additional time to be sure.

After you guys accepted the shipping change at HMV, how long did it take before you got an email from them?

After you guys accepted the shipping change at HMV, how long did it take before you got an email from them?
I didn't get another email from them.

Item was marked as 'Order Completed' on the My Orders section, and an EMS tracking number appeared under Track Orders 2 days after I responded to their 'increased shipping charge' email.

I didn't get another email from them.

Item was marked as 'Order Completed' on the My Orders section, and an EMS tracking number appeared under Track Orders 2 days after I responded to their 'increased shipping charge' email.

Cool thanks!

CD Universe now lists the box set at $141.50. Take off $10 when you use Google Checkout and add shipping (6.99 for me). My total was 138.49.

CD Universe now lists the box set at $141.50. Take off $10 when you use Google Checkout and add shipping (6.99 for me). My total was 138.49.


Thanx Much.

You just saved me $43. Was about to order from the Genesis site........

Thanx Much.

You just saved me $43. Was about to order from the Genesis site........

Ditto.

Ordered from cduniverse too.

Got my box set from HMV Japan today. I haven't had a chance to listen to or watch anything yet, but I can confirm that the discs are labeled NTSC.

Any thoughts on how the SACD SOUND?????

Any thoughts on how the SACD SOUND?????

Though it has nearly 25,000 hits and 1,000+ posts, the last several pages of the thread at the SteveHoffman.tv forum is becoming chock full of reviews.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=101587

You will also start having some success at Quadraphonic Quad both here (http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=42) and here (http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7238&page=11)

Me? Still waiting for my box set. . .left Tokyo yesterday and is already in New York. . .Just a quick plane ride to Atlanta now. HMV Japan shipping is so-far top-notch!

Best,
Josh

Any thoughts on how the SACD SOUND?????


I am by no means an audiophile. I am also a huge Genesis fan. Knowing that, I must say i feel that the new mixes are amazing. I've heard every song hundreds of times, and on most of them it feels like they put out all new albums. While at the same time keeping the original integrity of each song in tact. If that makes any sense.
Joe

Got my box set from HMV Japan today. I haven't had a chance to listen to or watch anything yet, but I can confirm that the discs are labeled NTSC.

I just got mine from HMV today also. Mine are labeled NTSC on the white label on the outside of the plastic however my discs are PAL. My HTPC plays PAL discs so no big deal but the mislabel is strange.

I plan on listening to at least one of them (ABACAB most likely) later this morning.

I just got mine from HMV today also. Mine are labeled NTSC on the white label on the outside of the plastic however my discs are PAL. My HTPC plays PAL discs so no big deal but the mislabel is strange.


Congrats, though I'm sorry to hear about the PAL/NTSC mess up. Someone else over at the official Genesis forum received the box set with five albums containing NTSC DVDs and the bonus DVD being PAL. So, there are some manufacturing errors out there. The person with the PAL bonus DVD is contacting Virgin directly because HMV has no more box sets in stock to replace the PAL DVD with. If anything comes of that communication I'll try to pass it along here.

Best,
Josh

cduniverse now lists at $254 for the NTSC set

Any thoughts on how the SACD SOUND?????


I have made it through Trick and part way through Wind. I was very impressed with the mix on Trick. The drums sounded huge! on Dance on a Volcano. I felt like the high end was a bit harsh, but it isn't that bad. The multi-channel mixes brings out new parts of each song that I have never heard before, especially vocal harmonies and Mike's bass lines. The mix on Wind was a little less impressive, and I had to turn it down a bit when I was making dinner the other night. I don't know what it was, but it was harsh on my ears. But I still liked the mix.

The extras on Wind are lee impressive too. Although it is great to have the lip-syncing group playing on the Mike Douglas Show for prosperity and Japan TV, I already had those, and the quality was just as bad as my vhs tapes. I am still really excited about this box set.

I felt like a chump to have spent $1000 on an SACD/DVD-Audio player, but to have the full catalog of Genesis and Peter Gabriel on hi-res/multi-channel was worth every penny.

i just saw the rhino box set for $119.00 for pre-order at cd universe is this DVD-A?

i just saw the rhino box set for $119.00 for pre-order at cd universe is this DVD-A?

I think thats just the bundle of the 5 CD's. No DVD's with it.......

I just got mine from HMV today also. Mine are labeled NTSC on the white label on the outside of the plastic however my discs are PAL. My HTPC plays PAL discs so no big deal but the mislabel is strange.

I plan on listening to at least one of them (ABACAB most likely) later this morning.

After seeing this post I tested each DVD in my Toshiba HD-A2, and all played correctly. Unless the A2 has some capabilities I'm not aware of, looks like I got the correct discs. Sorry to hear others are having issues.

I have to give props to the video content. All the menus and and the 2007 interviews are in anamorphic widescreen, and look quite nice. Can't wait to watch the 1976 "In Concert" film, which should be an improvement on my old bootleg copy.

I'm almost through listening to Trick, the 5.1 mix is quite nice. Normally, I don't look forward to rainy weekends, but Saturday is supposed to be pretty dreary around here, so I hope to spend a lot of time with this set.

So...............................

It's not clear to me. Where IS the best place to get the NTSC box set?

Congrats, though I'm sorry to hear about the PAL/NTSC mess up. Someone else over at the official Genesis forum received the box set with five albums containing NTSC DVDs and the bonus DVD being PAL. So, there are some manufacturing errors out there. The person with the PAL bonus DVD is contacting Virgin directly because HMV has no more box sets in stock to replace the PAL DVD with. If anything comes of that communication I'll try to pass it along here.

Best,
Josh

I would rather have the NTSC version. That is what I thought I was ordering and got the wrong ones but like you said HMV doesn't have any in stock. It is not worth it to me to pay any extra for the NTSC but if I could get them swaped out for free that would be great. I wont get my hopes up though...

ABACAB was the first disc I listened to. I could only turn it up 75% as loud as I wanted to because it was late but it sounded very good. My speakers have a soft dome tweeter (Vifas) and my room is carpeted so the high end isn't magnified as much as some other systems. I think the SS mix was excellent! The overall sound quality was good but not as great as Talking Heads or Doors Box sets IMO. The mix may be a tad bit better though. This is a first impression from the one disc keep in mind.
The menus are excellent on the DVD's. Video quality on the extras are VHS quality like someone else mentioned. I liked the interviews too.

I wish all the great old bands would put out a set like this!!!
I will post back after I listen to a couple more.Eric

I have the oppo dv-970 dvd player will this play the PAL region 0 genesis box set ? because thats what i ordered from cd universe, i hope i didn't make a mistake.

Nevermind i just called oppo they said it would,i just have to go into the menu and put the code to make it region free cool!!

Music discs are usually region-free (and all DVD-Audios are). That's what "region 0" means...

Music discs are usually region-free (and all DVD-Audios are). That's what "region 0" means...

Yea but these are 2 disc sets. 1 SACD (region free) and 1 DVD (PAL or NTSC)...

Bears repeating I suppose .....

Each reissue includes a SACD (or CD if you buy the US release) and a DVD-V. The SACD music disc does not have any regional coding (SACDs never do) and the DVD-V disc is coded as Region 0, which means it will play in any region DVD player. Further, however, the DVD-V disc has two versions, PAL and NTSC. This describes the video format, rather than regional coding, so make sure your DVD player can play the format you buy.

There is no DVD-A version.

Someone else over at the official Genesis forum received the box set with five albums containing NTSC DVDs and the bonus DVD being PAL. So, there are some manufacturing errors out there. The person with the PAL bonus DVD is contacting Virgin directly because HMV has no more box sets in stock to replace the PAL DVD with. If anything comes of that communication I'll try to pass it along here.

Best,
Josh

I wonder if there is an NTSC version of the bonus DVD? It is interesting that Amazon describes the NTSC set as having a PAL DVD for the bonus disc.

I wonder if there is an NTSC version of the bonus DVD? It is interesting that Amazon describes the NTSC set as having a PAL DVD for the bonus disc.

The Amazon reference to a PAL DVD on the NTSC boxset is a misprint. There should be no pairing of NTSC and PAL in the same set. If there is it is a manufacturer error. There are most certainly NTSC DVDs of the bonus tracks. In fact, I just picked up my box from the post office and everything checks out, NTSC DVDs with all SACDs, including for the bonus tracks.

Best,
Josh

I received my 5 disc set this afternoon from elusive disc, good price, $132 with shipping, no taxes, shipping was fast, checked that they were all NTSC and they were. I really just listened to Trick of the Tail and abacab so far but they seem to sound really good for the time period, it does seem a bit tiny at points, I'll have to play the rest

Did HMV charge the "extra" shipping cost to EVERYONE? I just got my CC statement and the price was less than 100 dollars! I also bought 2 additional discs with the box set (Chicago 2 DVD-Audio and David Bowie-Young Americans DTS surround) and the total shipping charge was 1200 yen. Her was the breakdown on the invoice:

Chicago 2 DVA 2061 yen
David Bowie Young Americans (+DVD) (LTD) CD 3512 yen
Genesis BOX SET (+DVD) (HYB) (BOX) 6SD 11512 yen

Delivery Cost 1200
Multibuy Discount 1284
Total For This Order 17001

Did HMV charge the "extra" shipping cost to EVERYONE? I just got my CC statement and the price was less than 100 dollars! I also bought 2 additional discs with the box set (Chicago 2 DVD-Audio and David Bowie-Young Americans DTS surround) and the total shipping charge was 1200 yen. Her was the breakdown on the invoice:

Chicago 2 DVA 2061 yen
David Bowie Young Americans (+DVD) (LTD) CD 3512 yen
Genesis BOX SET (+DVD) (HYB) (BOX) 6SD 11512 yen

Delivery Cost 1200
Multibuy Discount 1284
Total For This Order 17001

I pre-ordered the Box Set only and got the 'extra' shipping charge up'ed from 1200 to 2800JPY.

Breakdown was
Box Set 11512JPY
Shipping 2800JPY
Total 14312JPY

My final bill (delivered to house by Courier, no tax or duty) was 135CAD (120USD).

Your CC Company screwed up their conversion for JPY to USD as your 17001JPY should be 143USD at todays rate (plus add a couple of percent the CC Company takes). Hopefully they won't catch their error ;)

The last couple nights I listened to most of Trick of the Tail and And Then There Were Three. I'm not overly impressed with the sound. The SACDs were mixed very hot, gain is quite high. Comparing them to the CDs is an improvement and the SACDs are showing that the original recordings were very "engineered", the vocals especially. So I think theses new discs are limited by the source.

larry

The last couple nights I listened to most of Trick of the Tail and And Then There Were Three. I'm not overly impressed with the sound. The SACDs were mixed very hot, gain is quite high. Comparing them to the CDs is an improvement and the SACDs are showing that the original recordings were very "engineered", the vocals especially. So I think theses new discs are limited by the source.

larry
I agree, they're good, but not as good as I was hoping for given the long wait and anticipation prior to their release.

Probably noted earlier in this thread, but commented on elsewhere by Nick Davis, these discs were intentionally mixed/remastered "hot" to appeal to a commercially larger audience, what a shame.

CD Universe is now listing my order as "Undetermined release date." I don't think they want to ship it.

[Edit] Acoustic Sounds is listed their release date as "Coming May 01, 2007".

And just going to CD Universe's web site, the CD version says:
$112.30(You Save $37.68) Pre-Order Now! Available: Tuesday, May 15, 2007

Trick seems to be available:
Trick Of The Tail (Sacd Hybrid) (+Bonus DVD/Ntsc) (Hybrid Sacd) - Import CD
Genesis
Our Price: $25.35
Add to Cart Add to Wish List
Availability:Usually ships in 1-2 days

Grrr.

So, where can I get the full box set with NTSC (not PAL) DVD's for under $150?

Your assistance would be appreciated!

Nowhere that I know of currently. It seems maybe only a few were produced and reports are conflicting as to whether there will be more.

I'm confused. What is this box that Elusive Disc has? They call it the "USA edition". It says no SACD, but CD, plus the DVDs with 5.1 DTS tracks (what kind of DTS tracks? 96/24?).

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=WEACD79987

If I want a box set with SACDs do I have to get the $249.99 UK box?

And they're offering a set of all 5 discs (SACD+palDVD) for $174.99, yet you can get the individual SACD+ntscDVDs for $29.99 each = $149.95 for all 5.


Can someone who understands exactly what IS available and what ISN'T available, both as a box set and individually, please try and explain it in a summary? TIA. :confused:

I'm confused. What is this box that Elusive Disc has? They call it the "USA edition". It says no SACD, but CD, plus the DVDs with 5.1 DTS tracks (what kind of DTS tracks? 96/24?).

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=WEACD79987

If I want a box set with SACDs do I have to get the $249.99 UK box?

And they're offering a set of all 5 discs (SACD+palDVD) for $174.99, yet you can get the individual SACD+ntscDVDs for $29.99 each = $149.95 for all 5.


Can someone who understands exactly what IS available and what ISN'T available, both as a box set and individually, please try and explain it in a summary? TIA. :confused:

Have you checked all the sites on the below list?

http://www.last.fm/user/SoonerCaniac/journal/2007/03/16/370842/
Genesis SACD Vendor List [1976-1982 Releases] – SoonerCaniac’s Journal – Users at Last.fm

I went ahead and pre-ordered the boxed set from Acoustic Sounds.com for $150. They list that this is the set with 6 SA-CD's and 6 NTSC DVD's. I could have paid less for the individual discs in a set without the extra discs of B-sides, but some of those singles I really want and can only get in the set itself.

If anyone knows of a better, cheaper place to get the NTSC set for, please speak up.

The last couple nights I listened to most of Trick of the Tail and And Then There Were Three. I'm not overly impressed with the sound. The SACDs were mixed very hot, gain is quite high. Comparing them to the CDs is an improvement and the SACDs are showing that the original recordings were very "engineered", the vocals especially. So I think theses new discs are limited by the source.

larry

I think it's worse than just limitations of the source recordings (I own Trick of A Tail on vinyl and CD, and the vinyl actually sounds pretty good). The SACD mix is a mess, IMO. Collins' vocal floats outside the mix, and Rutherfords' bass pedals dissappear in the LFE channel (as opposed to the Redbook CD, where the bass pedals are quite prominent, especially in Dance on a Volcano and Squonk). Given some of the excellent prog rock hi-rez discs out there (Dark Side of The Moon, Fragile, Brain Salad Surgery, etc.) I had much higher expectations.

^^^ Yes. I briefly compared the CD and SACD (LP is boxed, probably never to be opened a again... :) ) I think the somewhat extra detail (probably because of increased gain) shows the source "issues" but the CD has slightly more dynamic range. Don't know if they messed with the mix when making the SACD. I don't think they put much effort into any restoration compared to what was done with the Doors DVD-As. Maybe they'll learn and by December they'll have "mastered" it. :)

larry

Edit: Just noticed you listend to multi-channel, so they did have to "play" with things. I'm 2ch only and this may account for the 2ch mix being different for than the original CD too.

I agree a 5.1 mix is always going to sound different than the original two-channel CD mix, but my complaints were not with aesthetic mixing decisions about where to put this guitar or that keyboard (although I have some issues with that too :rolleyes: ). Instead, they were just basic mistakes, like isolating Collin's vocals in the center channel and raising the gain way above the rest of the mix. Same with the bass pedals. On CD, my processor automatically re-directs 80Hz and lower from the L/R channels to my subwoofers. On the 5.1 mix, the processor sends 80Hz and lower from the five main channels to the subs, plus whatever signal is put into the LFE channel. My complaint is that there is dramatically less LF information on the SACD version of Trick, which had to have been the result of the SACD mixing process.

I agree a 5.1 mix is always going to sound different than the original two-channel CD mix, but my complaints were not with aesthetic mixing decisions about where to put this guitar or that keyboard (although I have some issues with that too :rolleyes: ). Instead, they were just basic mistakes, like isolating Collin's vocals in the center channel and raising the gain way above the rest of the mix. Same with the bass pedals. On CD, my processor automatically re-directs 80Hz and lower from the L/R channels to my subwoofers. On the 5.1 mix, the processor sends 80Hz and lower from the five main channels to the subs, plus whatever signal is put into the LFE channel. My complaint is that there is dramatically less LF information on the SACD version of Trick, which had to have been the result of the SACD mixing process.This likely won't apply to you as the way you describe your setup suggests you are using a digital firewire or HDMI link for SACD, but what equipment are you using for SACD playback? I had a similar issue with insufficient bass from SACD playback on some discs compared with CD and DVD-A until I used a Pentatone sampler SACD with SACD specific test tones to calibrate my player. Once I did that, the bass from SACD playback was seriously improved. Perhaps that might be a solution.

Well my box set finally came in on Tue from the Genesis web site. The quality of the packaging is great, I'm very pleased. I've only had a chance to listen to the 5.1 mixws of TOTT, W&W, ATTWT, and Duke (they could of kept Abacab :D ). I'm so happy to have them in 5.1 it's hard to complain. But the compression is annoying, I can only hope that PG won't let them do that with his release. I feel pretty confident they will be done right, he has a strong track record of quality. Security, So, and Up are all great albums- sonically and musically.

Well my box set finally came in on Tue from the Genesis web site. The quality of the packaging is great, I'm very pleased. I've only had a chance to listen to the 5.1 mixws of TOTT, W&W, ATTWT, and Duke (they could of kept Abacab :D ). I'm so happy to have them in 5.1 it's hard to complain. But the compression is annoying, I can only hope that PG won't let them do that with his release. I feel pretty confident they will be done right, he has a strong track record of quality. Security, So, and Up are all great albums- sonically and musically.

I can't speak for So or Security, but Up was an excellent SACD.

Was PG involved with the mixing of the earlier albums? My main worry would then be his wanting to rerecord the vocals. :D

BTW, CD-Universe just sent me an email that they don't know when they'll ship my SACDs. Grrrr again.

I just got this email from AcousticSounds:

*We are alerting you to a slight change in the Genesis 1976-1982 NTSC Set. We are told that this is no longer an SACD + DVD set. It supposedly contains CDs not SACDs along with the NTSC DVDs. This is only hearsay at this point and is subject to change. My question to you is...if these are CDs instead of SACDs, will you still want this set? Please let me know at your earliest convenience. **"Slight" change?! :mad:

For anyone who ordered the set from AcousticSounds, it looks like it's time to go elsewhere. :(

Well, it would certainly seem to indicate that they don't even have them in stock, otherwise they could just look at the box. The below is the label attached to the shrinkwrap on the box I got from HMV Japan. I made it purposely large so the fine print could be read.

If they do have it in stock, ask them what the UPC code is. Worst case, contact the manufacturer to verify what UPC code matches the SACD product.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Genesis.jpg

I just got this email from AcousticSounds:

*We are alerting you to a slight change in the Genesis 1976-1982 NTSC Set. We are told that this is no longer an SACD + DVD set. It supposedly contains CDs not SACDs along with the NTSC DVDs. This is only hearsay at this point and is subject to change. My question to you is...if these are CDs instead of SACDs, will you still want this set? Please let me know at your earliest convenience. **"Slight" change?! :mad:

For anyone who ordered the set from AcousticSounds, it looks like it's time to go elsewhere. :(
I alluded to this in Post#192 as I had noticed this "discrepancy" at Elusive Disc.

This likely won't apply to you as the way you describe your setup suggests you are using a digital firewire or HDMI link for SACD, but what equipment are you using for SACD playback? .


Just like Ovation said, SACD's multi-channel mix has 6 individual tracks, and the processor should not be used to direct the low end to the sub. This is the problem with multichannel mixes, as the more speakers you have(and more importantly, the environment they are in), the harder it is to sound like the producer intended. Proper calibration is the key (something I have not done yet in the new house).

The best thing about the multi-channel mixes for me is the definition of all the double-tracking percussion that Phil used.

But I agree about the compression.

I just went to HMV.CO.JP and they don't seem to have the SACD set listed anymore. What am I missing? Does anyone have a direct link?

Any place else to look?

I know I could just suck it up and get the PAL version, but I HATE the speedup, and with music it's annoying as hell!

Well I sucked it up and ordered from Amazon.de and got the PAL version (very, very hard to find the NTSC set without paying through the nose now). It was ~$138 with shipping (VAT taken off). It looks like the Euro is a little weaker than the pound, so that was a pretty good deal IMHO.

Guess I'll have to move quicker when the next sets come out.

OK Im a NOOB what the Heck is up with this PAL version?? an Explenation of PAL would be Helpfull and why it is BAD!! I went to the Japan Store but they SOLD Out is there anywhere else to get the NTSC Version??

Just like Ovation said, SACD's multi-channel mix has 6 individual tracks, and the processor should not be used to direct the low end to the sub. This is the problem with multichannel mixes, as the more speakers you have(and more importantly, the environment they are in), the harder it is to sound like the producer intended. Proper calibration is the key (something I have not done yet in the new house).

IIRC, the SACD/DVD-A mixing spec assumes that the consumer is using full-range speakers on all five main channels, which is usually not the case (I use THX dipole surrounds, which roll off at 80Hz). For that reason, I believe it's appropriate to use bass management so that any low frequency information sent to the five main speakers is redirected to the subwoofer, rather than lost due to the main speaker's inability to reproduce the signal.

Bass management is not the problem for SACD/DVD-A, it's the subwoofer level setting. I have to set the output higher for SACD to sound "proper". It helps to have SACD specific test tones to set the levels (Pentatone have a classical sampler disc--with some good pieces--that includes such tones). Ever since I ran those tones, my SACD bass sounds much fuller (yet not bloated) and, curiously enough, DVD-A is not too boomy (which was one of my concerns--I did not want to keep changing the levels according to format).

Just started listening to Trick of the Tale. The song Ripples is almost unlistenable. Debating whether or not to put this thing on eBay.
I hope the Peter Gabriel's don't sound like this.

My experience just the reverse ... all 5 albums are superb in SACD 5.1. Particularly TotT!

Just started listening to Trick of the Tale. The song Ripples is almost unlistenable. Debating whether or not to put this thing on eBay.
I hope the Peter Gabriel's don't sound like this.
I hope they don't either, really looking forward to Lamb, but if it's crunched like these are it will be a bummer. I'm definitely not going box-set purchase anymore of these.

I just checked out Trick, and Wind, and I have to agree with most of these postings, not impressed at all. I totaly agree that the Bass pedals muddy up the overall sound, and the hi's are way to HOT! I think this engineer has a thing for the hi end of the sound spectrum. I checked out the 2 ch SACD version, and that sounded much better, but again the mix is way to hot. The best part about the Trick CD, is the DVD of the concert from the same tour with B. Bruford.

I cannot fairly evaluate the SACD surround layer because I'm only 3.1 at this time. However, after repeated listens, the SACD stereo layers on all of the studio albums are unfortunate letdowns. In comparison to many other wonderful rock/pop SACDs that I own, these discs lack depth and dimension that high-resolution is often able to provide. The cymbals simply are too harsh and Phil's vocals often sound too bright. I think "in your face" is very appropriate here. I only hope that the extra channels are able to provide a little more realism to the music. This band simply isn't "in the room" on SACD stereo.

I've done a few blind tests so far with my original Trick Atco CD pressing, the DTS 96/24 layer downmixed to 3.1, the redbook CD layer, and the SACD stereo layer and I still cannot believe I've picked the original CD pressing each time. The tonal balance on that CD is extremely impressive after holding up to the competition. I've been pleased with the imaging on my modest setup; I've been unable to confidently distinguish the center channel on Trick with the DTS layer during these blind tests. I cannot really comment any further on the DTS in 3.1 at the moment, I still need to listen to most of the albums in DTS.

Blind tests on the other albums will be forthcoming. In any case, these SACDs just aren't impressive in stereo. I sincerely hope I will be happier with the surround. Keep your original CDs!

Best,
Josh

UPDATE - Michael reminded me about the loudness issue. Something I've always loved about a good recording is that you can gradually turn up the volume and it has the effect of "opening up" the soundstage, it's as if the band comes to life, or if someone has removed the glass wall separating you from the band. Is that just me or do you know what I mean? With these discs you cannot turn them up to "improve" the realism of the music, instead you have to turn them DOWN. If played at volumes comparable to other SACDs, the sound is, frankly, often ear bleeding during busy passages. Again, this is for the SACD stereo and CD redbook layers, I do not know if this changes on other layers. During my blind tests, my wife started the SACD stereo and CD redbook layers about 5db lower so that I couldn't tell which was which. We also experimented with different volume settings so I couldn't tell any pattern in how she was playing the discs. I could get the original Atco CD the loudest, a solid 10 dB above the SACD/CD with no distortion. Trying to get another 10db on the SACD only made it sound worse, IMO.

If you want to fairly judge the new Genesis SACDs, compare them with other SACDs or DVD-As made from original multi-tracks from material of around the same time.

Talking Heads: 77 cf A Trick of the Tail
David Bowie: Stage cf And Then There Were Three
Talking Heads: Remain in Light cf Duke
Roxy Music: Avalon cf Abacab

All these other SACDs/DVD-A are what the Genesis could have sounded like.

Instead the Genesis have been mixed and mastered to sound good on an MP3 player.

Compared to the other material, the Genesis are all too bright, and are all very compressed.

And the remixes also have elminated some of the dynamic range. Genesis should have soft, medium, loud, and climax. Instead as the music builds, the volume stays almost the same. This is particularly noticable in Phils vocals where his quiet bits are sometimes almost as loud as his powerful singing.

Some people are used to (and now like) the "MP3" sound, and like the Genesis SACDs because it make the old material sound like modern recordings.

Others, like myself, think the Genesis should have sounded as good as the other discs mentioned above, and find these SACDs "painful" to listen too if played loud.

All the other material mentioned above engages me and makes me want to keep listening. Even though Genesis is some of my favourite music, I have not yet been engaged in any of these new discs (I have only played the SACD 5.1).

For me the Genesis are the worst sounding discs in my SACD/DVD-A collection, and as I love the music, they are my biggest dissappointments.

Cheers,
Michael

Thanks for that feedback Josh & Michael. It is sad to say, I think I will pass on these. I was looking forward to them. MP3 sound is not for me.

Thanks for that feedback Josh & Michael. It is sad to say, I think I will pass on these. I was looking forward to them. MP3 sound is not for me.

All I can say Mick is that you may want to find a copy of your favorite album from this set on eBay used and try it. I am sure there are going to be used copies of these discs, if not already. There are a lot of people who love these discs and disagree with us naysayers. Also, though many of the comments here discourage me, you may have better luck with the surround layers.

The sound engineer responsible for the mixing of this project readily admitted elsewhere that attempts to "modernize" the sound were deemed necessary. Terms like compression and digital-limiting were used, though I don't pretend to be a sound engineer so I won't comment further on the specifics. Thus, a lot of us can argue about how they sound, but Michael's point about MP3-like sound is valid at least to an extent. For me, I know how they sound on my system, and something just isn't right. It's a damned shame. :mad:

Best,
Josh

There are a lot of people who love these discs and disagree with us naysayers. Also, though many of the comments here discourage me, you may have better luck with the surround layers.

Best,
Josh

I have only listened to the SACD 5.1 surround. Most of what I have read on the net says that the SACD stereo and the CD layer sound even more compressed.

As Josh says, there are those who disagree with us naysayers.

But I think those who like the discs cannot deny that they are brighter than most discs, and they use much more compression than most other SACD/DVD-As.

I can accept that commercial reality deems it necessary to make the CD layer (and perhaps even the DD and DTS mixes) sound "modern" (ie suitable for iPods). But what I cannot understand is why all the dynamics have been taken out of the SACD layers. Why put this on SACD when many CDs sound much better? And surely most people with SACD playback understand and appreciate dynamics.

I have over 3000 CDs, and some of my favourite music is the Gabriel Genesis discs. It now seems almost certain that Nick Davis will have made these sound "modern", and they will probably sound just as bad as the current set. I am not happy.

Cheers,
Michael

My local Borders is now carrying the U.S. version of the 12 disc box. From what I can tell, on average the U.S. version, which is minus the SACD's, is $40 less than the Japanese version with the SACD's. My question is how are the DTS and DD 5.1 mixes on the DVD Video?
Being that the reviews are 75% horrible on the SACD mix, I wonder if I'm better off going with the U.S. version, saving $40 and living with the DVD Video mix. I realize the DVD Video mix is not true HiRez - DVD-A, but it doesn't sound like the SACD mix taps the true potential of HiRez either.

The Sound and Vision review is on the U.S. box set. Its mostly positive too.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/musicreviews/2285/tracking-surround-genesis-page2.html

Have you ever read a 'bad' review in S&V ??

Having purchased the SACD/NTSC Box from Japan I would suggest you get the US CD/DVD Set for the surround mixes and Video. There is no point having the hi-res on these SACD's. :mad:

Have you ever read a 'bad' review in S&V ??

Having purchased the SACD/NTSC Box from Japan I would suggest you get the US CD/DVD Set for the surround mixes and Video. There is no point having the hi-res on these SACD's. :mad:
I agree, the sound quality on these SACDs is so neutered I don't know why they created them in the first place. As noted above, listen to Avalon and then listen to one of these discs and you'll go "WTF?"

To think that they will probably give LLDOB the same treatment just makes me sick. Now I really, really wish Warner would come out with a DVD-A version, although it would probably be the same Nick Davis compressed "for the masses that don't have hires anyway" mixes. I just don't understand that decision, why the hell would you want to do that to a hirez format? Did they think they were going to singlehandedly ressurect the format?

All I know is that I feel like a fool because I pushed the SACDs so hard over the past few months. Shame on me I guess. This was a major opportunity to illustrate the advantages of SACD, and with the stereo layer at least, they blew it (IMO).

Josh

All I know is that I feel like a fool because I pushed the SACDs so hard over the past few months. Shame on me I guess. This was a major opportunity to illustrate the advantages of SACD, and with the stereo layer at least, they blew it (IMO).

Josh
Don't be silly, your work on the availability and pricing was invaluable, an outstanding job and I thank you for it. :)

So,...................................

Do I buy these or not? Should I just start with one to see what I think?

Should I just start with one to see what I think?

YES. :)

Did anyone else try to talk themselves into believing that the SACDs sounded good at first? I have built up the arrival of Genesis SACD for 3+ years since they first mentioned LLDOB. I remember listening to ATOTT and turning it down because it was too harsh. My only positive impression of the SACDs are being able to separate some of the instruments, especially some of the percussion used on Duke. But I agree with most of the reviews posted above.


The worst part is that if it was done "for the masses", this is a band that is not for the masses. I am betting that most people that bought these, own every album,at least of their favorite era, and this was a chance to have a high-rez/5.1 version of the songs they have heard 1000 times. Who the heck is going to buy a $30 SACD/DVD and download it to their I-pod. No one. Just a shame.

Best case scenario is they are able to take the pre-mastered mix-downs of the Gabriel era and re-process it, which is not hard to do because every setting is still programmed into the computer. But I don't know if the pressing are already complete.

Worst case scenario: With a bad buzz about the first set of releasings, and the second set bound to be the worst selling, the abandon the release of the Gabriel era.

The worst part is that if it was done "for the masses", this is a band that is not for the masses.
That's a major part of the problem IMO, they are a band "for the masses" now, it's reflected in their new corporately run website and how these SACD releases turned out. This is not even close to the band I used to see 30+ years ago.

I'm putting the chances at 1 out of 10 that the early stuff will sound better than the current releases, and as noted above, that's if they even go through with the releases at all.

OK, perhaps these SACDs could have been better, but they are hardly terrible - as comments here would seem to indicate. There is a bit of dynamic compression, however the clarity and separation of sound here is vastly superior to previous releases.

Further, long time fans may not like it - and I have been a fan since 1973 - but Genesis has been a mass-market band for a long time.

And the notwithsstanding grousing of some, sales of these discs have apparently been good, so I certainly hope all three release waves happen.

There is a bit of dynamic compression, however the clarity and separation of sound here is vastly superior to previous releases.

Here is the end of "Ripples' from the CD layer of the SACD.

http://members.shaw.ca/pttwa/images/ripples.jpg

There is no dynamic range - just compression.....

Here is the end of "Ripples' from the CD layer of the SACD.

http://members.shaw.ca/pttwa/images/ripples.jpg

There is no dynamic range - just compression.....

That's an odd-looking waveform during the fade. Almost seems as if the multi-track channels were limited during a remix before the fade was done. Usually there is a ceiling and transients come back into play as a fade transpires, so that you would see less clipped peaks during a fade-out or during stuff below the ceiling set on the limiter. Here, it looks like there are clipped peaks even as the track fades. Weird.

Good observation Felix. What you said seems consistent with what someone at the stevehoffman.tv site said:

----snip---
"...the the studio where Nick did the remixes has an SSL E series console which has a compressor on each of its 56 channels and one in the center section to run your mix through. I'd be willing to bet most, if not all of the individual instruments were compressed by the channel compressors. Then the whole mix was compressed with the buss compressor..."
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2580640&postcount=870
----snip---

This would mean that during the mixing everything was compressed individually and then together, prior to even the mastering, which I think would result in what you observed about the waveform even during the fade.

FWIW and for people that generally haven't seen those compressed waveforms, here is an example of what one 'should' look like:

Last 2 minutes of DCC Gold Hoffman mastered Steve Miller, Fly Like An Eagle -
http://members.shaw.ca/pttwa/images/eagle.jpg

WOW - Dynamics. Quiet passages are Quiet, Loud passages are Loud......

So,...................................

Do I buy these or not? Should I just start with one to see what I think?

I'm no Elton John fan, but since you can buy most of his SACDs for $7 shipped, and they sound vastly superior, I'd wait.
These should be going for 10 bucks by the end of the year.

Have you ever read a 'bad' review in S&V ??

Having purchased the SACD/NTSC Box from Japan I would suggest you get the US CD/DVD Set for the surround mixes and Video. There is no point having the hi-res on these SACD's. :mad:

I want the box set in the worst way. Thanks for your advice. I plan to print off a Borders 20% off coupon at visitborders.com and I have about $25 in Borders rewards I can redeem so that gets the U.S. box down from $150 to $95.
Borders is also having a sale - buy 3 mix and match cd's and dvd's and get one free thru the 22th. I'll head there tomorrow. I did see the individual Genesis cd's/dvd's priced at $19.95 and they weren't on sale at that price.

I hope I won't be terribly disappointed in the dvd 5.1 mix. I feel bad for all that were let down in the sacd's. My collection is at about 45 sacd's, 25 dvd-a and 8 or so dual discs. I love the stuff! Next up are the two new Moody Blues releases. Have a great weekend.

I want the box set in the worst way. Thanks for your advice. I plan to print off a Borders 20% off coupon at visitborders.com and I have about $25 in Borders rewards I can redeem so that gets the U.S. box down from $150 to $95.
Borders is also having a sale - buy 3 mix and match cd's and dvd's and get one free thru the 22th. I'll head there tomorrow. I did see the individual Genesis cd's/dvd's priced at $19.95 and they weren't on sale at that price.
FWIW: I noticed that my local Sam's Club has the CD/DVD box set for $88.88.

I want the box set in the worst way. Thanks for your advice. I plan to print off a Borders 20% off coupon at visitborders.com and I have about $25 in Borders rewards I can redeem so that gets the U.S. box down from $150 to $95.
There's a 30%-off Borders coupon this weekend (5/19-20, maybe longer). If you're a Borders member, just tell 'em you forgot your 30%-off coupon at check-out.

I bit down and got the US box for $104.99+tax with this 30%-off coupon, today.

Hi All,
These albums have been among my favorites since they were released and I have versions of them from just about every era, including the original vinyl US releases and the Mo-Fi half-speed mastered version of ToTT so I was really looking forward to hearing the 5.1 surround mixes.

I have listened to the 5.1 SACD layers of ToTT and Wind. While I do like very much the overall sound placement and surround field that Mr. Davis was going for, (including the vocals) there are just some basic mixing "rules of thumb" that seem to have been overlooked.

The problems I hear with these mixes are that the bass elements (Kick drum, bass guitar and bass pedals) are a muddy mess, the cymbals are too loud and the drums (snare and toms) are not loud / punchy enough. The drums seem to be way too far back in the mix. What I always loved about the original stereo mix was how the bass pedals, kick drum and bass guitar all could be heard distinctly without being muddy and how Phill Collins' punchy drums drove these songs.

What is strange is that these are "rookie mistakes" in mixing and Mr. Davis is certainly no rookie. Perhaps he was not really used to the sound of the surround speaker setup he was using or it was mis-calibrated for the room or something.

Who knows, perhaps, due to corporate budget constraints etc., he was not able to spend the amount of time on each of these mixes as would be the norm when mixing one "new" album, much less several at once.

That said, I did still enjoy these, just not as much as I had hoped. I will keep them, (just these two albums from this round) but it is too bad they could not have been better.
--M--

While I do like very much the overall sound placement and surround field that Mr. Davis was going for,.....................
I don't.

I'm not a fan at all of heavy-handed surround mixes, but I feel that the vast 5.1 palette that was available to Mr. Davis was extremely under-utilized. When I play these, some of the tracks sound to me like they're simply being played back via the old Dolby Pro-Logic mode, with the sound being smeered across all 5 speakers. With the exception of some (but not all) of the vocals being directed to the the center channel and some of the drums or percussion in the surrounds, I don't find these to be very discreet mixes at all.

In the case of these albums, I think the surround field could have been MUCH more fully utilized. :(

Initially I thought that the surround mix was minimal, but good. But after listeneing to all the albums in the box set, I now think that the surround mix is very boring.

Most other surround mixes place instruments around you. As well as the mix, I think the huge amount of compression has a part in "blurring" the soundfield. It is more that there is sound around you than instruments around you. 70% of the surround mix just seems to be "put the keyboards in the rears".

I think that most of the extra "clarity" that some people praise in these recordings just comes from making the quiet bits louder, and taking some of the parts which embelished the background and making them as loud as everything else.

Whenever I now listen to any of my other SACD/DVD-A surround recordings I cannot help thinking about how great Geneis would sound if anyone other than Nick Davis had done the remixes.

............... I now think that the surround mix is very boring.

exactly :(

Whenever I now listen to any of my other SACD/DVD-A surround recordings I cannot help thinking about how great Geneis would sound if anyone other than Nick Davis had done the remixes.
I agree, which doesn't bode well for the rest of the releases.

I'll have my 10' pole out waiting to hear some reviews before I buy any more of these. :D

What's really a shame is this is probably the last time these albums will get this sort of treatment, and IMO, they blew it. :(

I don't know if anybody else doing the remixing would be able to get change the quality and what-and-how things were originally recorded. eg. the over processing Phil's voice in places and the similar type things with the instruments. Things seemed extremely "compressed". The extra resolution may be a bad thing in this case wrt magnifying the flaws. I haven't looked at the album credits in a long time but I hope they had a different engineer for the earlier albums. Maybe there is still hope.

larry

What is strange is that these are "rookie mistakes" in mixing and Mr. Davis is certainly no rookie.
--M--

What exactly are Mr. Davis' qualifications to re-master and process surround-sound music? When I kept abreast with his now-defunct "Ask Nick Davis" website, it appeared as though he rushed through processing the entire Genesis catalog remarkably quick. I also recall reading there that Peter Gabriel had held up the release of the early recordings because of his dissatisfaction with the quality. In hindsight, based on posted comments here, it appears that Gabriel might have had a valid point. Full disclosure; I personally have not heard any of the current 5.1 Genesis releases as I am only interested in the Gabriel-era recordings.

Incidentally, Steve Wilson of Porcupine Tree is a "rookie" in mastering surround sound on his own, but he has done a brilliant job thus far. I realize that 30 year old music will be harder to re-master than music recorded today, but the Elton John SACD releases of recordings from that same era are quite fantastic, indicating that quality re-mastering can indeed be done.

Do the stereo output of the later-day Genesis SACDs also sound compressed and poorly mixed?

I don't know if anybody else doing the remixing would be able to get change the quality and what-and-how things were originally recorded. eg. the over processing Phil's voice in places and the similar type things with the instruments. Things seemed extremely "compressed". The extra resolution may be a bad thing in this case wrt magnifying the flaws. I haven't looked at the album credits in a long time but I hope they had a different engineer for the earlier albums. Maybe there is still hope.

larry

Larry - Nick screwed the whole thing. There was nothing the matter with the master tapes from which they started with (same as was used to remaster the DE CD's).

As has been suggested on other forums (and here a while back) in the remix he probably compressed 'all the channels coming into the mixing console' then when it was remastered he added another 3db of compression there as well.

If you watch the Video that comes with the box set you hear that Nick was responsable for the whole mess with the final say going to Tony Banks who listened to everything and changed what he wanted - don't need to wonder why the guitars disappeared from TOTT and W&W.....basically Steve Hackett's stuff is delegated to the bottom of the heap within the mix. Mike Rutherford said he liked the surround mix (which is OK in my opinion - just the mix itself), and Phil Collins, well - he's in it for the cash and I'm not sure if he listened to much of anything :)

Do the stereo output of the later-day Genesis SACDs also sound compressed and poorly mixed?

Today I listened to the SACD Stereo layer of A Trick of the Tail on Australian $40,000 speakers and Australiain $20,000 of electronics.

It was in the showroom of the speakers, and the speaker designer was giving us a demo. We all agreed it sounded terrible, and very quickly moved on to listen to something else. (Everything else (SACD and CD) sounded great.)

Whilst I can imagine that the original stereo master of these albums may have too much compression, I cannot imagine this compression being recorded onto the original multi-tracks.

If Nick (and others) had wanted, things could have sounded VERY much better.

How is Duke in SACD? Is it as bad as the others?

How is Duke in SACD? Is it as bad as the others?

IMHO - Yes, they are all the same. I would suggest however that if you are a fan and want that disc, then spend the 20 dollars or so and get it. You really have to judge for yourself. I won't be selling the Box Set I got because I like the surround (but not the hot mix/master). I just don't turn it up.

Are all these negative comments in reference to the import SACD box set?

I say that because I received a promo copy of the new Rhino Genesis box that features DTS and DD 5.1 mixes. Are these the same reviled mixes that appear on the SACD box?

Are all these negative comments in reference to the import SACD box set?

I say that because I received a promo copy of the new Rhino Genesis box that features DTS and DD 5.1 mixes. Are these the same reviled mixes that appear on the SACD box?
Yes, the mix is the same. The comments are in reference to the mix.

An "interesting" review of Genesis as a band and of the album ATOTT...

"There are several schools of thought when it comes to Genesis. The first, and perhaps most common among my generation, is that they suck—no further explanation given. The second is that Genesis with Peter Gabriel was amazing, while Genesis with Phil Collins was saccharine and boring. The third is that Genesis with Phil Collins was catchy and enjoyable, while Genesis with Peter Gabriel was dull and arrogant. Fourth, and very rare, is that Genesis is, was, and will always be great."

http://www.soundthesirens.com/articles/index.php?id=33,702,0,0,1,0