What's the point of checking ANY image differences between switching PC and Video level output? Of course there will be a level change effect by directly switching the setting if the setting actually works! The point is you should match the level setting between the source (video processor) and the display. Then adjust and calibrate the picture using either the Crystalio II internal test patterns or test patterns from calibration discs such as AVIA and DVE for the proper brightness and contrast level.

regards,

Li On

Nice Summary. I'd add that it concerns me that the C2 seems to add banding artifact to grey and color ramps. In my downstairs system, without C2....those patterns are very smooth. In my upstairs system, with C2......I get those nasty bands.

There must be a mis-match of video level from your source to the display. First check the Crystalio II internal ramp pattern. Then check the actual video from your input source. Try manually set the video/PC level on the Crystalio instead of using "auto detect" mode.

Btw, if you're using a old firmware, try update the firmware first as I remember there was a old bug that may cause some banding aritact in smooth tone in some conditions.

regards,

Li On

I agree 100% with you LI ON. I was just doing the test for him as a favor... :)

What's the point of checking ANY image differences between switching PC and Video level output? Of course there will be a level change effect by directly switching the setting if the setting actually works! The point is you should match the level setting between the source (video processor) and the display. Then adjust and calibrate the picture using either the Crystalio II internal test patterns or test patterns from calibration discs such as AVIA and DVE for the proper brightness and contrast level.

regards,

Li On

The point is that if you look at the screenshots i've posted you'll see that a very strange defect appears on media player/sdi and analog inputs when switching to PC level on component hdmi out. Now: is this behavior just normal for C2 or it's my unit? It's all that.
Also: if for any reason i would like to output PC level on hdmi component out i can't do it on the above inputs for this reason.
I just want to understand: even if i don't use PC level out IT HAVE to work.

I don't use analog or the SDI so to be honest this would not be a big deal to me...

I don't use analog or the SDI so to be honest this would not be a big deal to me...

It happens on the internal media player, too. Anyway, i suspect is a firmware related bug, so i think it will be helpful to report and correct it, but since now it seems that i'm the only one who noticed: maybe has some negative effect also on other aspects. I mean, *maybe* could be better ;)

Gotcha. I will report to them today (tonite)... :)

Last night a new problem developed with my vps3300 that I had not seen before. First it kept locking up during my playing of an HD video on my TIVO series 3. Each time I had to unplug it from the outlet to get it to respond.l

Then after about the third time-- it powered down when unplugged and wouldn't power up. It didn't power up until it was completely cold a few hours later.

I have the vps3300 running through a power filter/protection box and its open in the front and rear cabinet for heat venting. I have never had a heat problem or this lockup/shutdown before with the unit.

I'm running 2.06 firmware which I've been running for awhile.

Is there an autoshutdown for heat issues? Anyone else seen this or can explain this?

Thanks

Mine has never shut down before (knock on wood)... How long was it on before it shut down?

Mine has never shut down before (knock on wood)... How long was it on before it shut down?

a little over an hour

Wow! That does not sound good. We better see what PMS says about it... :eek:

my guess is it was a heat issue -- I've never seen it before though

It is bizarre to say the least. I would be testing it now to make sure it was an isolated incident...

my guess is it was a heat issue -- I've never seen it before though

It is summer now. Is the ambient temperature in your room higher now? Any new equipment near the CII that would add heat?

It is summer now. Is the ambient temperature in your room higher now? Any new equipment near the CII that would add heat?

No change in temp-- ambient room is always 75 deg/F. We had a power interruption over the weekend while we were out of town. I'm wondering if the firmware got corrupted (hopefully not the hardware as its plugged into a power filter). Last night I uploaded the new firmware 2.07 and will see tonight if I get anymore freezes. It did freeze up last night before the firmware update.

It is bizarre to say the least. I would be testing it now to make sure it was an isolated incident...

Talked with Pixel Magic. Its going back to Hong Kong for R&R. They suspect a bad power supply.

Talked with Pixel Magic. Its going back to Hong Kong for R&R. They suspect a bad power supply.

Bummer. How can you live without it? I don't know what I would do if I had to ship mine back. Well at least they are going to fix it.

Well hopefully the turnaround is quick... :)

Bummer. How can you live without it? I don't know what I would do if I had to ship mine back. Well at least they are going to fix it.

I keep an Octava HDMI switch around for just that occasion. I still have to hook up my Wii and XBOX360 though....

Well, at least you have a good fail safe... :)

What's the point of checking ANY image differences between switching PC and Video level output? Of course there will be a level change effect by directly switching the setting if the setting actually works! The point is you should match the level setting between the source (video processor) and the display. Then adjust and calibrate the picture using either the Crystalio II internal test patterns or test patterns from calibration discs such as AVIA and DVE for the proper brightness and contrast level.
Li On (or others with specific knowledge about this),

Since on the C2 you can select RGB, YCbCr 4:4:2 or YCbCr 4:4:4 HDMI output colorspace, and on the RS-1 you can likewise select the same three on input, wouldn't you be better off using the only 10bit setting on both, YCbCr 4:4:2? Even if your source input on the C2 is only 8 bit, you would be able to maintain a 10 bit path from processing, to the display.

The only downside of this might be the number of conversions end to end, if for example a C2 source was RGB (like sat receivers), it would have a conversion at the C2 output, and then a conversion back to RGB in the final processing steps in the projector.


Likewise, wouldn't you also benefit by the extra 'steps' in the signal using PC levels 0-255 on C2 output and RS-1 input, rather than less 'steps' in the Video 16-235 format? I'm talking about matching the C2 output to the RS-1 input -- both the same.

Some would argue BTB (Blacker-than-Black) and WTH (Whiter-than-White) would be lost, but that is not my focus in this query. I'm looking strictly at bit-depth vs colorspace conversions in the first question and a finer granularity in video signal 'steps' in the second question. And of course this implies that your inputs are each properly set to match their sources.

Comments?

Li On (or others with specific knowledge about this),

Since on the C2 you can select RGB, YCbCr 4:4:2 or YCbCr 4:4:4 HDMI output colorspace, and on the RS-1 you can likewise select the same three on input, wouldn't you be better off using the only 10bit setting on both, YCbCr 4:4:2? Even if your source input on the C2 is only 8 bit, you would be able to maintain a 10 bit path from processing, to the display.

The only downside of this might be the number of conversions end to end, if for example a C2 source was RGB (like sat receivers), it would have a conversion at the C2 output, and then a conversion back to RGB in the final processing steps in the projector.


Likewise, wouldn't you also benefit by the extra 'steps' in the signal using PC levels 0-255 on C2 output and RS-1 input, rather than less 'steps' in the Video 16-235 format? I'm talking about matching the C2 output to the RS-1 input -- both the same.

.... And of course this implies that your inputs are each properly set to match their sources.

Comments?

You made the point. First a little correction: if i'm not wrong 10 bit processing is YUV 4:4:4 and 8 bit is YUV 4:2:2

Second: the Gennum process all signals in RGB, this means it convert YUV in RGB and then in YUV again in the case you'll use this colour space output.

Last: matching is the issue. In hdmi inputs you can force input on 0-255 level, even if it's only 16-235. The result, to my eyes, is fantastic. If you set 16-235 in input not forcin PC level and 0-255 in output you'll have the issues i've described in my previous posts with screenshots. The issue is that in SDI, media player and all analogic inputs YOU CAN'T "force" a 0-255 in input, it will always detect the standard video level and if you set 0-255 in outputs you'll have too many issues to be acceptable. And i'm not talking of "standards" issues but real errors as i've described with my screenshots (if you read previous posts, you can easily replicate them). Why? IS this a bug or what?
Hope i made myself clear.

You made the point. First a little correction: if i'm not wrong 10 bit processing is YUV 4:4:4 and 8 bit is YUV 4:2:2No, only YCrCb 4:2:2 is up to 12 bit. RGB 4:4:4 and YCrCb 4:4:4 are 8 bit. When using an 8 bit output format, the extra bits are dithered down to 8.

Second: the Gennum process all signals in RGB, this means it convert YUV in RGB and then in YUV again in the case you'll use this colour space output.Right, and the RS-1 which basically uses the same chip does just the opposite. So if you start out with an RGB input to the C2, and output RGB to the RS-1, you have RGB->C2_in->YUV->RGB->C2_out->RS-1_in->RGB->YUV->RGB->display. But if you use one of the YCbCr's between the C2 and RS-1 you have RGB->C2_in->YUV->C2_out->RS-1_in->YUV->RGB->display. And of course if your input to the C2 is a YUV, then there's only one RGB conversion in total.

What I don't know for sure is whether the YCrCb 4:2:2 input of the RS-1 accepts >8 bits. Can't seem to find any information on that. If it doesn't, you'd probably want to use YCbCr 4:4:4 between the C2 and RS-1.

But for some reason, the resulting image on my screen seems to be best-defined when I use RGB between the C2 and RS-1, and I don't understand why.

Last: matching is the issue. In hdmi inputs you can force input on 0-255 level, even if it's only 16-235. The result, to my eyes, is fantastic. If you set 16-235 in input not forcin PC level and 0-255 in output you'll have the issues i've described in my previous posts with screenshots.To my mind, there's absolutely no reason or advantage to feed a 16-235 source to a 0-255 input. None. The only way it could look 'better' is if it is somehow compensating (in part) for a mismatch of the C2 output level driving the display. It's really important that outputs->inputs levels match at each step in the video chain.

The issue is that in SDI, media player and all analogic inputs YOU CAN'T "force" a 0-255 in input, it will always detect the standard video level and if you set 0-255 in outputs you'll have too many issues to be acceptable. And i'm not talking of "standards" issues but real errors as i've described with my screenshots (if you read previous posts, you can easily replicate them). Why? IS this a bug or what?
Hope i made myself clear.I think so, though the use of the word 'force' is confusing.

The only output level test I have tried is when the C2 and RS-1 are set the same, either 16-235 or 0-255 on each. 0-255, I had thought might look better (aside from possible clipping issues) but it doesn't seem to due to a higher amount of banding. And when you look at the smoothness of shading from black to white, the steps are more irregular at 0-255, though I'm not entirely sure why.

I also found that if I take my HTPC with 1080p60 output (NVidia 7800 series card) directly to the RS-1, the shading from black to white (or any color) is perfect, with smooth, very fine steps visible. But if I introduce the C2 between them, set for either video level standard, and any C2 output to RS-1 colorspace standard, there is no evidence of smooth shading at all. It's very rough with irregular sized steps, but best with RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4 in use between the C2 and RS-1.

This might somehow relate to what you're experiencing, since the HTPC->C2 input is at the 0-255 PC video standard.

Second: the Gennum process all signals in RGB,

Are you sure about that ? I thought the "native" color space for many video processing technology is YCbCr ?

The Crystalio II Gennum internal proccessing in RGB 10 bit per channel. The HDMI Input and Output works in RGB or YCbCr 444 8 bit per channel or YCbCr 422 in 10/10bit or 8/8bit per channel with CbCr in half horizontal resolution. PC and Video level conversion (if Input and Output level does not match) works in 10bit depth inside Gennum to maintain all video info.

regards,

Li On

www.pixelmagicsystems.com

I'm replacing my receiver and RPTV in the next couple of months. So I'm putting my CII up for sale. Its a great product and a great company to work with but the CII wont fit in my overall budget.

If you know a friend who has been wanting to get one like yours but found it too expensive, check out my sale post for them:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=866771

I'll miss posting with your guys in this thread!

We will miss your great posts to lorelevitt! Goodluck... :)

Guys,

I'm planning on building a dedicated game PC that I will use with my HT system. In my HT I'm currently using the C 3800 with a 65" 1080p plasma. I know some of you use either PS3s or Xboxes with CIIs but does any one use PC with a CII?

I will have to use the CII as an HDMI switch if nothing else since I only have one digital slot on my plasma and that is already used. I wonder, however, if there is any reason to allow the CII to do processing on the signal from the PC. I can set the output resolution of the signal coming out of the PC via the video cards so no scaling necessary but will there be a need for other video processing?

thanks.

I have a problem when I connect my HTPC to my Crystalio 3800.

HTPC uses a XfX Nvidia 8600 GTS video card and it works with no problem when I connect it straight to my vpr Sharp XV-Z210000 (20000 european version), at 1920x1080i (or p).

When I insert C II in the video chain the video card show only two possible resolutions: 800x600 and 1024x768.

If I try to force 1920x1080 resolution screen goes black and C II show "no signal" and I have to go back to 768 or 600 (nice).

Some idea ?

This is my second 3800 and it is send to me one month ago from PMS because my first have some problems.

Thanks to all.

Ciao from Italy.

I have a problem when I connect my HTPC to my Crystalio 3800.

HTPC uses a XfX Nvidia 8600 GTS video card and it works with no problem when I connect it straight to my vpr Sharp XV-Z210000 (20000 european version), at 1920x1080i (or p).

When I insert C II in the video chain the video card show only two possible resolutions: 800x600 and 1024x768.

If I try to force 1920x1080 resolution screen goes black and C II show "no signal" and I have to go back to 768 or 600 (nice).

Some idea ?

This is my second 3800 and it is send to me one month ago from PMS because my first have some problems.

Thanks to all.

Ciao from Italy.

Don't know but you should ask this question over at the PMS CII forum. Maybe even the PMS reps will provide you with an answer.

I had similar problem connecting an HTPC to the C2, with the same Nvidia card. I fixed it by playing around with the refresh rate the HTPC sends out (using the advanced setting). Now I get 1080P crystal clear working great.

Hi ShararT - it might be worth you posting your powerstrip timings here (or on the PMS forum) for other people to use with this Nvidia card. Sounds like you've found a good combination.
There should be a string you can copy to your clipboard which is easy to paste.

Don't know but you should ask this question over at the PMS CII forum...
I did it, but until now no replay. :(

Thanks for your suggestions.

Hi.

Ciao

CII users,
With the second HDMI out, have any of you set your system up such that one of the HDMI outputs is connected to the pj and the other used to deliver high resolution audio to the pre-pro? With HD-DVD and Blu-Ray outputting DTS HD and high res DD via HDMI 1.3 outputs, I would like to have a VP which I can use as a switching station. Thanks in advance.

With the second HDMI out, have any of you set your system up such that one of the HDMI outputs is connected to the pj and the other used to deliver high resolution audio to the pre-pro?
I haven't tried it, but the CII doesn't support multi-channel PCM, only bitstream and 2-channel PCM.

CII users,
With the second HDMI out, have any of you set your system up such that one of the HDMI outputs is connected to the pj and the other used to deliver high resolution audio to the pre-pro? With HD-DVD and Blu-Ray outputting DTS HD and high res DD via HDMI 1.3 outputs, I would like to have a VP which I can use as a switching station. Thanks in advance.
Lumagen Radiance

If the radience wasn't one of the ugliest units I have ever seen I would think about trying one. But honestly, it can't hold a candle to the crystalio II in looks. And since all of my equipment is within view that is important to me...

Greg Rogers has a review of the Crystalio II in the latest (#123, Sept. 2007) issue of Widescreen Review. Subscribers can download it from the website http://www.widescreenreview.com

It's about tiime! ;)

The Roger's report was very positive. In his summary he said he was very impressed. I always knew I wasn't crazy for loving my crystalio II. :)

The Roger's report was very positive. In his summary he said he was very impressed. I always knew I wasn't crazy for loving my crystalio II. :)
But note it still doesn't properly handle 24p. Can any processor do this yet?

Actually it does now after the last firmware version (2.08). It just came out so I am sure he did not have it for his review... I am using 1080p/23.98 with my crystalio II and it handles it like a champ! :)

Actually it does now after the last firmware version (2.08). It just came out so I am sure he did not have it for his review... I am using 1080p/23.98 with my crystalio II and it handles it like a champ! :)
That is great! Greg said he was anticipating it. He probably wrote that review at least 4-6 weeks ago.

Questions: Will it take 24p in and put 24 out, 24p in and dput 60p out, 60p in and put 24p out?

Actually it does now after the last firmware version (2.08). It just came out so I am sure he did not have it for his review... I am using 1080p/23.98 with my crystalio II and it handles it like a champ! :)
Does the new firmware support greater than 2 PCM channels thru HDMI?

I have sent in 24 and it sent out 60 perfectly fine. I have sent in 24 and it sent out 48 perfectly fine. I have also sent in 60 and then the crystalio II sent out 48 without issue... Haven't even tried the audio becasue I go into a onkyo 805 first...

I send in 480i over SDI, 1080i60 over YUV, and 1080i60 HDMI with BD10, out 1080p24 the projector is a SR1 and I still have cadence breaks !
Only once I could watch a whole movie using my HD-A1 @ 1080i60 HDMI.

I am lost as numerous people got ride of this problem.
There have to be a problem in my configuration, can anyone tell what MUST NOT and what MUST be done to be sure that there will be no cadence breaks.

Thanks for the help guys

Does the new firmware support greater than 2 PCM channels thru HDMI?
PMS has said its a HW limitation.

Lumagen Radiance

No SDI

No Multichannel PCM?

I think for many, that is a deal killer.

I just got my Widescreen Review and the article / review looks pretty lengthy...I am looking forward to reading it today.

I just want my VP to to take care of the video. My new Onkyo 905 can do the audio. Dolby TrueHD coming in from my HD DVD and Blu ray discs sounds terrific. Then I send the video thru the crystalio II (1080p/23.98 and 1080p/60) for jaw-dropping results. ;)

Why all the fuss about no LPCM support? I route via my AVR and everything works fine. It just takes a little adjustment of thinking - you don't -have- to route with the C2 in between your source and processor.

:)

Exactly! The crystalio II with its great userface (the best on the market) and awesome features is the best VP available. I still love the usb flashdrive for doing firmware upgrades and do not understand why other companies do not follow suit. And with their latest firmware version 2.08 the INFO screen is very detailed. With one simple button you can SEE what is coming in (all parameters covered) and the same for going out. And you know, if there was a beauty contest for VPs the crystalio II would win hands down there to! :)

can someone print the roger's report of the crystalio to a pdf file and post it?

I just want my VP to to take care of the video. My new Onkyo 905 can do the audio. Dolby TrueHD coming in from my HD DVD and Blu ray discs sounds terrific. Then I send the video thru the crystalio II (1080p/23.98 and 1080p/60) for jaw-dropping results. ;)
OliverG
Why all the fuss about no LPCM support? I route via my AVR and everything works fine. It just takes a little adjustment of thinking - you don't -have- to route with the C2 in between your source and processor.

Joe & Oliver,

Are you saying that you have all components (DVD, OTA-HD, HD-DVD/BR, etc.) hooked up to your pre-pro and then have 1 HDMI cable to the CII? If so, how does the CII handle the different types of video signals coming in? I thought that the settings employed by the CII would differ for an SD vs HD source. Does it have some type of "auto-sense" where it would apply one set of processing parameters for a DVD sent as 480i as opposed to a BR signal coming in @ 1080i which has to be scaled to 1080p? Thanks.

I don't know how their setups work, but CII certainly does have an auto sensing and rules-based actions. PMS call it DynamicVP and it's very easy to use.
You can set it to carry out various actions (the most common being output resolution/refresh) based on the detected input.
The most powerful way to use it is to tell it to apply profiles (memory slots) when a particular input format is detected - this way you can pretty much set anything you like.

Personally though - I route everything through the CII first and only use DynamicVP to detect 50/60Hz and change the output resolution and rate accordingly (I use a CRT Projector so I send different resolutions for PAL/NTSC and HD).

The crystalio II really is 2 VPs in one. You can use faroudja processing or the gennum chip. I like the crystalio II being the component that sends the final picture to my Ruby. I can then make final adjustments with it.

Why all the fuss about no LPCM support? I route via my AVR and everything works fine.
You lose all of the per-input tweaking and the automatic audio delay compensation that the CII provides.

If you have competent components then you don't need the C2 for delay. And I still get per input tweaking...

If you have competent components then you don't need the C2 for delay. And I still get per input tweaking...
How does the AVR know what the CII's video delay is? And pray tell how you get per-input (not per-video-format) tweaking?

OliverG
Why all the fuss about no LPCM support? I route via my AVR and everything works fine. It just takes a little adjustment of thinking - you don't -have- to route with the C2 in between your source and processor.

Joe & Oliver,

Are you saying that you have all components (DVD, OTA-HD, HD-DVD/BR, etc.) hooked up to your pre-pro and then have 1 HDMI cable to the CII? If so, how does the CII handle the different types of video signals coming in? I thought that the settings employed by the CII would differ for an SD vs HD source. Does it have some type of "auto-sense" where it would apply one set of processing parameters for a DVD sent as 480i as opposed to a BR signal coming in @ 1080i which has to be scaled to 1080p? Thanks.

In my setup I have 2 Blu-ray players that can put out 1080p24 (HDMI), 2 HD DVD players one 1080i60 and one 1080p24 (soon, I hope) (HDMI), a universal SACD/DVD-Audio player that puts out 480i60 (HDMI). All of these can do their best audio decoding internally and send that as 6 or 8 channels PCM over HDMI. I have several other devices that use HDMI or component and send sound over SPDIF optical or coax. I have a receiver, used as a preamp, that can accept 4 HDMI inputs with 6 channel PCM. I need more HDMI inputs. And HDMI outputs.

I would prefer to use my video processor as the primary receiver (among other reasons to adjust lipsynch) and pass on the video to a preamp that would pull PCM audio off from HDMI and pass the video through untouched. I don't currently do that because my processor won't do that. Instead I use a complex arrangement of processor, receiver, and several HDMI switchers or distribution amps. To say I have HDMI/HDCP problems is an understatement!

I just like sending my main sources thru the onkyo 905 first then the out of the 905 into the crystalio II. I have the 905 in pass through mode so each resolution is treated differently in Dynamic VP mode on the crystalio II. It is that easy. I get the advanced sound codecs with great picture! My JVC HMDT100 u DTHEATER player goes straight into the crystalio II because the 905 won't accept it for some reason. But that is perfectly fine because the C2 deinterlaces it to 1080p immediately and the optical out on the JVC can go straight into my 905... Home Theater made easy! ;)

I just like sending my main sources thru the onkyo 905 first then the out of the 905 into the crystalio II.
So you've obliquely answered that you can't get automatic audio delay and can't get per-input settings.

I get automatic delay with my 905. What don't you understand? I get per input settings thru my crystalio II because it has a special Dynamic VP mode which takes each individual resolution and displays it based on the parameters I set for it after calibration. Any more first grade questions or can we move on to second grade now? rRead Greg Rogers review in Widescreen to learn more about the crystalio II...

Actually in your profile it says you have a C2. Do you not use it the same way I do? My picture and sound Q are as good as they can be at this point. Why do I need to worry about audio going into my VP? I let the 905 handle the new advanced audio which is what it was made to do. Together they are one heck of a combo! Use both to their strengths!

I haven't needed the audio delay settings - my lip synch is perfectly fine - even without routing audio through the C2 - I actually set it up this way because i wanted to have the shortest audio path to my AVR - turned out to have other advantages too!

Alot of people have said the inability for the C2 to pre/pass audio via HDMI is a deal breaker for them, but I just don't understand why when routing audio straight into your AVR is perfectly fine. If there is an audio delay required, I can't see it!

The C2 is just absolutely amazing :)

Exactly! I hardly need audio delay with any of my components.

I get automatic delay with my 905. What don't you understand?
It's what you don't understand. Replace your CII with a variable video delay line; as you vary that video delay, explain how the 905 automatically adjusts its audio delay to match.

I get per input settings thru my crystalio II because it has a special Dynamic VP mode which takes each individual resolution and displays it based on the parameters I set for it after calibration.
Your CII can't discriminate between 480p content coming from input device A and 480p content coming from input device B, and automatically process them differently. My CII can, and does.

Any more first grade questions or can we move on to second grade now?
The problem is your failing to achieve second-grade comprehension of what's been written.

You know how often I watch 480i or p sources. Next to never. If you are so unhappy with your crystalio II then sell it and move on. The 905 has settings for audio delay so why would I need them with my VP? :rolleyes: I hate to tell you this but I have graduated quite awhile ago and do not comprehend your level of questions because they just don't make sense. You can do a home theater set up more ways then one. I choose to do mine this way because it is the most optimal way for my set up. Maybe yours is different but that does not give you any reason to come down on us for using ours this way... Move on!

As you can SEE I do not watch many SD sources... I don't need to... :)

If you are so unhappy with your crystalio II then sell it and move on.
Your assumption that I must be unhappy with my CII is just another reflection of your lack of understanding in this exchange. Move on indeed.

Why the hell does it bother you so much if we use are AVRs first then send the signal to the crystalio II. And if you are HAPPY with it then you should know it can be utilized in many different ways in many different set ups! Is that hard to understand? :rolleyes: Mind your own business! If you BETA tested for the crystalio II then raise your hands! That's what I thought...

Back on useful topics, PMS will be adding firmware version 2.08a shortly. This will address a few minor bugs that some have experienced moving to firmware 2.08 and other bugs that others have had even before... Gotta love their support! :)

Do you know what is in the next release?

I do love the support in general - but I have noticed if they find a problem they can't fix, they shrug their shoulders of it - some issues get put in the too hard basket too easily IMHO.

Having said that, the C2 is an incredible machine in so many ways. I don't regret my decision to buy it even if they can't fix my problem.

The funny thing is, I actually bought my C2 to resell it. After I tested it, I found it was sooo good that I sold my Vantage and replaced it.

I also love how it can process for both my displays. Powerful stuff.

I like that feature to. Sending the signal to two different displays at once is also a huge plus for me. I know they are working hard on a few issues that have been bothersome for a quite a while now. I am flashing the usb as I post this to try the 2.08a firmware version... :)

To all those having problems with your HTPC - PMS responded with this work-around:

"For workaround solution, please try remove the 5V power pin and/or the DDC/EDID pin in the DVI plug of the cable between the PC and the Crystalio II.

Please check this page for the detail of the DVI port pinout.

On the DVI plug of the cable, try remove/break the pin 14 to remove the 5V power. If that doesn't solve the issue, please also remove/break pin 6 to stop the EDID exchange.

Pixel Magic Support."

I wish there were pins in the HDMI cables we could break when they screw up! :eek:

So you've obliquely answered that you can't get automatic audio delay and can't get per-input settings.

I thought it was a fair enough point. I have been pondering whether to put my VP in the chain before my new (still undecided which) AVR, or after. Before would be nice, because I can use the VP's independent per input settings. After would be nice, to simplify source switching, but at risk of losing auto audio sync. Obviously I can't have it both ways. Hence why I thought it a fair enough point.

I wish there were pins in the HDMI cables we could break when they screw up! :eek:

I wish the boxes could all communicate with each other wirelessly and be done with those expensive HDMI cables.

It is a fair point. But then he obviously didn't like my anwsers. I do not have audio delay issues. So it does not matter where I put the crystalio II in the chain. Now if I did then I would validate the point..

Hello - I am a newbie and am having some trouble getting my Toshiba HD-XA2 HD-DVD player to work with my C11 3800. I did a search and seems no one else had any issues.

I have the HD-XA2 via hdmi to CII and then output to a Panasonic 65" plasma (via DVI to hdmi).

My questions are:

1) what resolution should the hd-dvd player output before being fed into the CII? 480p, 1080i, or 1080p?

2) What settings do you have the CII on to work with a hd-dvd player? the CII does not detect the hdmi from the toshiba hd-dvd unless i output 480p.. I am not sure this is right?; (I am using 2.08 firmware); Do most of you set the CII to output 1080i or 1080p with no issues? Any insight and advice as to how to get them to work together would be appreciated. I changed this to output via hdmi "pass thru" but it still does not work.


I'm also wondering since I am using a DVI to HDMI connection from the CII to the plasma would there be incompatibility issues? I also noticed even though it does detect it at 480p, it does not output sound.

any advice would be appreciated

Please set the HDDVD player to 1080i Output to the Crystalio II and let the video processor deinterlace and scale the image for the best Output picture.

Please check if you see bring up the Crystalio II internal OSD on your display even the Crystalio II does not detect the HDDVD. We want to know whether it's a problem of the HDDVD to the Crystalio II or the problem is from the Crystalio II to your plasma. Please also try the HDDVD player on all the 4 HDMI Input ports and manually select the correct colorspace format and video level for the HDDVD player in the Crystalio II HDMI Input port configration. If you have other source device which can output HDMI at 1080i/1080p, please try that on the Crystalio II too.

As you use a HDMI to DVI connection to the plasma, there will be no embedded audio as DVI port does not support audio. Please use the coxial/optical Output from the Crystalio II to your AV receiver.

regards,

Li On

www.pixelmagicsystems.com

I have had this combo for quite awhile now and can say that it has to be the Panny's DVI input not handshaking with the crystalio II. I have sent 1080i and 1080p from the XA2 into the crystalio II without issue...

I have had this combo for quite awhile now and can say that it has to be the Panny's DVI input not handshaking with the crystalio II. I have sent 1080i and 1080p from the XA2 into the crystalio II without issue...

Do you have the Panasonic TH-65PF9UK or a commercial version? I also have an hdmi input to this tv but 1080p cant be output using this method.. therefore I must use the DVI to hdmi.

I will try Li's settings tonight and advise how it works.

Please set the HDDVD player to 1080i Output to the Crystalio II and let the video processor deinterlace and scale the image for the best Output picture.

Please check if you see bring up the Crystalio II internal OSD on your display even the Crystalio II does not detect the HDDVD. We want to know whether it's a problem of the HDDVD to the Crystalio II or the problem is from the Crystalio II to your plasma. Please also try the HDDVD player on all the 4 HDMI Input ports and manually select the correct colorspace format and video level for the HDDVD player in the Crystalio II HDMI Input port configration. If you have other source device which can output HDMI at 1080i/1080p, please try that on the Crystalio II too.

As you use a HDMI to DVI connection to the plasma, there will be no embedded audio as DVI port does not support audio. Please use the coxial/optical Output from the Crystalio II to your AV receiver.

regards,

Li On

www.pixelmagicsystems.com

Li - I tried every port and looks like I have some issues. HDMI port 1 and 2 cannot detect any source no matter what I do. HDMI port 3 and 4 work fine. The other issue on HDMI port 1 - when you push the osd menu on the remote, it flashes on and off - something is seriously wrong; each menu flashes and wont stay still - I dont have this problem in port 3 and 4. I have tried to input my satellite, sony dvd player and also toshiba hd-xa2 to all ports - Port 1 and 2 simply will not detect ; I have also adjusted the outputs to either 1080i or 1080p on those ports - doesnt matter, it does not detect.

Please advise what I should do? Is this a defective unit?

Li - I tried every port and looks like I have some issues. HDMI port 1 and 2 cannot detect any source no matter what I do. HDMI port 3 and 4 work fine. The other issue on HDMI port 1 - when you push the osd menu on the remote, it flashes on and off - something is seriously wrong; each menu flashes and wont stay still - I dont have this problem in port 3 and 4. I have tried to input my satellite, sony dvd player and also toshiba hd-xa2 to all ports - Port 1 and 2 simply will not detect ; I have also adjusted the outputs to either 1080i or 1080p on those ports - doesnt matter, it does not detect.

Please advise what I should do? Is this a defective unit?

Have you tried doing a factory reset? Sounds like faulty hardware though, especially if the devices are being detected on port 3/4.

Good luck

Yes I tried a factory reset - still doesnt work.

Yes I tried a factory reset - still doesn't work.

Try FW 2.07.

Since upgrading to 2.08 myself I've been having problems at 1080i via component from a Tosh XE1. Screen goes blank and nothing works, not even the OSD. On 576i RGBs and component it's just about stable enough to be able to use. Didn't have any problems when using 2.07 :)

I've just sat down to enjoy a movie and can't get C2 to work at all. 2.07 rescue mode here we come, fingers crossed, hopefully it should sort out my problems.

Is anyone else having issues with the OSD on screen? My osd flashes and wont stay still on one setting under input 1 + 2. Not having that issue with 3+4.

Li - please advise next steps on my CII. I think it there is a hardware issue and defective?

Thanks.

I've searched for an answer in this thred but I have not found it.

Sure the question is (very) banal.

How can I do to mantain on the screen a test pattern and a setup slider ?

I've found nothing in the manual.

Thanks.

Ciao

Hi bpy15, I suggest to reload the unit firmware in "rescue" mode. You need to download a "rescue" firmware version and follow the rescue process. Please check this link (http://www.pixelmagicforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18612&postcount=85) for the detail. If a firmware reload does not solve the issue, please email to info@pixelmagicsystems.com to arrange RMA.

nordata, the adjust slider does not work with an internal test pattern. The internal test pattern is for image adjust on the display unit. Adjust image control on the display to best shown the internal pattern. Then adjust the Crystalio II image control with a active Input source to best match the source to the video processor.

regards,

Li On

www.pixelmagicsystems.com

Li - I tried the rescue 2.08 and the port 1 + 2 still does not detect any source I feed it. I will email for a RMA.

Thanks.

I posted on the PMS forum and the CRT forum about this.

I would love if our C2s could do what Blendzilla does - 60% left 4:3 image from one output - then 60% right 4:3 from the other (feather blended in the middle) to give a huge 16:9 (or 2.40:1) picture. I don't think its that hard to do. Alot of CRT/front projector people would buy the C2 - I personally would pay money to have this facility. Anyone else?

Right now, I'm supposing we could use the dual outputs to stack - but that wouldn't use 100% phosphor like a blend does. It might be brighter though :)

Oh, I've just found out - the Radiance is apparently getting the 'blend' feature I was talking about.

I don't want to sell my C2 to defect to a Radiance!

The latest from Pixel Magic re: Crystalio 2

We are working on a simple blending solution in C2. But please be reminded that all solutions require two C2, because a single C2 can't output two different videos. That's the hardware limitation.

Jason

Since my XA2 and A35 bith are having a difficult time sending in 1080p/23.98 I am going to try a DVI detective by gefen this week. I have tried a couple of times to break the 2 EDID pins in a HDMI cable but both attempts have failed. I will try one more time with a HDMI coupler since that should be easier to get in access to. The quest continues... :)

I went back to regular firmware version 2.08 PLAIN and now using my new Pioneer 95FD sending in 1080p/23.98 and then back to my Sony Black Pearl 1080p/23.98 the picture is judder free and smooth. I then can tweak it some for optimal viewing. This is why I purchased the crystalio II almost a year ago. I can now get the best resolution in and out and then make adjustments for the best picture. And of course then I can use it to deinterlace my DirecTV 1080i and DTHEATER titles. We watched Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer yesterday and the picture was top notch. So was the sound. Then we watched Reign Over Me and that movie looks terrific. The signs on city streets are razor sharp. It really looked like you were there.

I know a few newer VPs just hit the street but I really don't see what advantages they will have over what I am used to now. Still being able to change the firmware version in minutes (sometimes seconds) using a usb flashdrive is right up there. And of course PiP.Two HDMI outs simultaneously. And still nobody beats the easy userface. And lastly as far as looks go the other VPs could not be in the same rack without sticking out like a sore thumb. Who is designing them? I could be drunk and on cocaine and come up with a better design then those ugly looking units... Geez! :eek: As you can see in my pic the crystalio II still performs well with all of my newer equipment... :)

Joe, I agree about the looks of the CII, very nice, I also like DVDO's looks as well, they look fabulous in a rack IMHO, not quite to the leve of CII but nice ;)

-Gary

Oh yeah, DVDOs are not bad looking at all. I am mainly laughing at the Radience... :D

Hi Thailand
i order my C2 and it will be arrived tomorrow with isf guy to set up round one with w10000 i wonder anyone use HD sdi from HD or BD player with C2 any suggest ??
im thinking about to get LX80( japanese version USA version is 95FD)+ HD SDI also i will replace my a1 with a 35 +hd sdi but i am not sure can jbv boy do it YET ??

anyone here please suggest ...

HDMI looks so good I have not ever decided to play with the SDIs... :)

well..

you owe it to yr self and yr setup to try it

I will too

No thanks. I am more than happy using HDMI for everything... ;)

Yeah - but what HD-SDI was better Joe :devil:

(I'm in component world until I get an HDCP display, so I'm thinking that HD-SDI is an interesting option).

If I were there then I would try SDI... :) But since everything unit I use is all HDMI now there is no point in using anything else... :)

Go for the best Joerod
http://www.jvbdigital.com

SDI is so 2 years ago! :D :D :D

HD SDI too??

SDI in general, yes... I guess I could play with the HD SDI to see... Damn, you are a bad influence... :)

SDI is so 2 years ago!No, SDI and SDI-HD are professional interfaces and are found on just about all professional gear. Heck, even my Canon XL-H1 HD camcorder has SDI and SDI-HD capabilities.

Vern

That it may be but my AVR, Blu ray player, HD DVD player, VP, JVC DT100U (DTHEATER) player, DirecTV HD DVRs (3 of them) and xbox 360 ELITE all have HDMI... ;)

BTW, I am selling my crystalio II 3300 unit (BLACK). I am replacing it with their newer 3100 model. I am reviewing it. I am still keeping my 3800 BLACK unit. I just don't need the 3300 anymore so if anyone is interested please let me know. :)

SDI is so 2 years ago! :D :D :D

:eek: Joe, SDI is still the pinnacle of video quality ;)

-Gary

Let's not get crazy! :D Like I posted I have everything HDMI so why would I want to throw in SDI? :eek:

i tried xa1 HD SDI borrow from my dealer with CII ...:eek::eek::eek:yes PQ is the best and better than HDMI connect to CII the PQ is much clear and shinny than i use my hd dvd a1 with HDMI i test with King Kong and Serenity i will try to get HD BD and modify HD SDI:D ... now but kind of pricy at the moment .. and only JVB digital can offer .. any suggest ??

In this post http://www.pixelmagicforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2859
Pixel Magic state that they are working on an HD-SDI board. If released that should open up the market to other dealers (like Gary on here and CRT Projectors in the UK for example), allow people to modify their own machines and give JVB a bit of competition which might lower their prices.
Looking forward to it.

Gary Muswell is great - he's on Curt's site if you can't find him here - he does SDI/HDSDI mods for all sorts of players

Remember with HDSDI, its best to feed in an interlaced image into your C2 as its deinterlacing is much better than most sources can do natively - plus you can't get more than 1080P/24 with HDSDI due to bandwidth restraints

If using HD-SDI, is it best to route audio via HDMI to your receiver?

In this post http://www.pixelmagicforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2859
Pixel Magic state that they are working on an HD-SDI board. If released that should open up the market to other dealers (like Gary on here and CRT Projectors in the UK for example), allow people to modify their own machines and give JVB a bit of competition which might lower their prices.
Looking forward to it.

Me Too!! thank you for imformaiton and sound good then the jvb digital which i find out only one do HD SDI in the market ..i hope Pixel magic can open up the market very very soon after i saw the PQ by HD SDI yes it is the best for my CII to do the best HD also i can separate sound and pic out from the player .

Re the3100 model. I am not a user yet. I was wondering if I could verify a few things.

1) Since its only got a HDMI out, am I right in assuming that it will take a component signal and spit it out in HDMI?

2) I have been building an HTPC and I have a sound card that will let me pipe off the Motherboard sound, to add audio to the HDMI signal out the video card. So, the question is for the 3100, can I do that if I have the coax audio and component video input, will it output to hdmi, WITH audio?

thank you

Yes, it will output everything thru HDMI. I plan to do a review on the 3100 soon. I have one out for delivery today.

NOTICE: PMS is accepting 3300 and 3800s (for those who will pay shipping both ways) and upgrading the EDID. This will allow them to accept 1080p/24 from HD DVD players and 1080p from other units. I think this is GREAT customer sevice. I do not know of any other companies that have offered a EDID UPGRADE! :eek:

contact= support@pixelmagicsystems.com for details...

NOTICE: PMS is accepting 3300 and 3800s (for those who will pay shipping both ways) and upgrading the EDID. This will allow them to accept 1080p/24 from HD DVD players and 1080p from other units. I think this is GREAT customer sevice. I do not know of any other companies that have offered a EDID UPGRADE! :eek:

contact= support@pixelmagicsystems.com for details...


Huh??? I've got a standard 3800 that accpets 1080p/24 already. So why do I need an upgrade? Am I missing something?

Edit: Oh this has something to do with the CII not being recognized sometimes by inputed devices as supporting 1080p/24 even though it does? That would explain why my BH100 sometimes (but not always) switches to 1080i because it thinks the CII cannot handle 1080p/24? I wonder how long it takes to fix it and get it back? Hard to imagine living without my CII!!

Huh??? I've got a standard 3800 that accpets 1080p/24 already. So why do I need an upgrade? Am I missing something?

Edit: Oh this has something to do with the CII not being recognized sometimes by inputed devices as supporting 1080p/24 even though it does? That would explain why my BH100 sometimes (but not always) switches to 1080i because it thinks the CII cannot handle 1080p/24? I wonder how long it takes to fix it and get it back? Hard to imagine living without my CII!!


Yes, Joe can you clarify plz. This EDID (?) seems to be an issue that I have yet to encounter, currently using PS3 and HDA1 as sources. 1080p24 no problem from PS3.

Basically this is how I see it. Anything which can FORCE 24p is fine (PS3 is fine for example and many other devices have received firmware updates to allow this). But devices which only allow an automatic setting will currently not see CII as being able to accept 24p because it is not present in the EDID info. This new hardware fix will allow anything capable of 24p output to send it to CII.

Having seen the complete list of EDID info on CII, posted on their forums I can only assume that the original EDID info was specifically designed to make devices not use EDID info at all and allow manual settings instead. But times have moved on and the automatic EDID exchanges seem to be how devices are being set up these days. May not even allowing manual setup at all.

Personally I really like the way it's done on PS3 - where you tick all the resolutions you can handle and it outputs as close to the source as possible. All the HD/SD players/set-top-boxes should do something similar if you ask me.

tryingtimes, thanks for clarification. Are there any hddvd sources that force 24p available? I'd like to ship my C2 back but that's at least a couple hundred to HK I imagine, no? Wouldn't it be easier to perhaps find sources that can force the issue, so to speak? Perhaps we can compile a list of these devices, either BD or HDDVD for current owners not overly desirous of shipping their pride and joy out.

That is exactly what has happened with EDID. So components can "force" it while others just kind of ask the other component if it will take it. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. Like dating... :)

Anyway, the HD DVD players can't send 1080p/24 to the crystalio II because it won't force it. I can send it with my Pioneer and Sammy Blu ray players just fine. Also, the panny BD10a won't even send 1080p into the crystalio II. Only 1080i. My xbox 360 ELITE will only send in 1080i as well. Anyway, as you can see EDID info has made things a mess. It is nice having a company like PMS that will help improve your VPs EDID...

OK. Thanks for the clarifications. Now someone PLEASE tell me how I'm supposed to live without my CII while PMS upgrade it? :eek::D

I'm thinking the same - I guess I'll have to do it when I'm going on holiday or something.
Not that it's an issue for me at the moment as the only 24p-capable source I have is PS3.
Who knows when that might change though.

My xbox 360 ELITE will only send in 1080i as well. ...

That is wierd !

My X360 and CII link perfecto in HDMI 1080p60.

(I also have only 1080i with the BD10).

PS : You must be the only man on Earth who have both the 3300 and 3800 and will get the 3100 ! Don't tell me that you also had a VPS2300, PE1000 and PE1000 pro !

Yes, it will output everything thru HDMI. I plan to do a review on the 3100 soon. I have one out for delivery today.


Thank you, look forward to the review. One quick clarification, do you mean that it will output the audio to the SAME HDMI output as the video or only to the second HDMI out.

If so, is this unique? Seems like every other unit take a component signal in and puts it out in component ONLY, with sound spitting out in digital coax/optic. Have I been incorrect all along?

Thanks

I've mentioned this on the PMS forum, but for those who dont want to spend (in my case almost $600) to ship their C2s (or mulitiple C2s) back to PMS, just use the DVI genie (Gefen).

Populate the DVI genie with a display that can handle 1080p/24 then move it to between the C2 input and the source.

$69 + shipping :)

PS Joerod, I forgot to ask you, did you feed a signal into your genie? It needs power and a signal before it will copy the EDID. Several people have had problems but it turned out they were just plugging the genie in without sending any power/signal to it.


Kind regards

hi

I have posted this on a former thread different forum, but this thread maybe more appropriate

I have found the following players ( thru text research, no own experience)
able to f o r c e 24p out

The famous PS3
the LG BH100 ( so probably the newer BH200 too)
Sony S1
Pioneer BDP-94HD will output 1028p24 (when set to "source direct")
Sony bdp-S300 and S500
any other?

Hi,
just yesterday I've paid for my new Crystalio II VPS3800PRO, EDID's upgrade included.
Maybe I'll receive it among 10 or 15 days, and after I'll try it with my JVC RS1U and Denon 4308

wow

you will have a nice scaler which will beautifully upscale your standard definition (SD) tv network only if you have a digital setup box. I have such a setup box for only 3 1080i channells, the rest is in SD. But those SD sometimes fool you into thinking you are looking to HD signals.
SD movies ripped to computer and then to the internal media player is a feast :D

but i wonder why did you buy the 3800?
best would be the new 3100. you miss the internal media, but the player is not fault free, has its own glitches and behave like a spoiled child and is only good for SD material as it cannot handle HD or Blu ray material. Also at its "end of life" as a product .
The other thing of the pro is the reason why i have it: the SDI inputs

read too many stories how much better picture quality it gives compared to hdmi
So i wait until my Sony BP-s300 can be modified with an HD SDI output

But such a modification to the player will be 800 euro (1k+ $) but worth it

If you dont plan to use the sdi in the future then to buy the 3100 would be a wise choice even with an external media player of pixelmagic would be a better choice

Hi, Kyrill, I've choosen CII 3800 'cause this is the top of videoprocessor for me. In future (when avalaible) I'll buy Elixio and so I'll completed my HT equipment: now I got JVC RS1U, Denon 4308, Toshiba HD-XE1 and PS3.

Nice shoot Kyse ;)

Nice shoot Kyse ;)
Thanks

Di nulla :D

Got my VPS3800 back from its EDID surgery !
The unit will take in 1080p out of my BD10 (beware of the out timings to get sync with HD1/RS1 though).

And yes Joerod now 1080i60 (and 480i) converted to 1080p24 is much much more stable. Not yet perfect in my setting (I need to try with ordinary 1080p24 timings and no custom ones) but it is possible to watch a whole movie without playing with the pause and play on the remote.

That was worth the trouble !

Congrats! And you got it back on a Friday. Just in time for the weekend... :)

Hey guys I'm desperate!:eek:

For those of you using a TIVO S3 and the CII have you noticed the problem with the new TIVO firmware (9.2a) which was just rolled out in the last week or so? I leave the TIVO in native mode so that it does not do any processing on incoming TV signals and let the CII do all the processing work.

Since the new TIVO FW update, however, when switching between two channels with different resolutions, the CII cannot lock onto the differnt signal resolution. I have to turn the CII off and on again and then it locks. The only fix I've come up with so far is to set the TIVO to a fixed resoultion (1080i but it could be any of them as long as it's fixed) and then there is no locking problem. This is obviously less than optimal since I don't want the TIVO processing 720p or even 480i signals.

BTW I'm using the CII FW V2.08

Any idea of what might be the problem? Many thanks for any help. I'm assuming that it is a bug with the TIVO FW rather than some non-standard implementation of the CII FW.