Hi

I have used analog out multi chan since using my 05 player.All speakers small 80hz x over.

Settings for 1.32 firmware on sub chan +0.5 in player and -14.5 in pre/pro(only used for sub chan) for ref 75db using only 2 subs.

Player failed in march 2010 ,drive replaced and new 1.65 firmware installed by repair tech august 2010.

Reset and tested system 2 wks later all other chans fine,
same levels with old settings in player.

Tried to set sub chan,could not set ref with internal tones,or JPK bluray test disc,dvd pal or ntsc jpk disc.(which had work 1.32 )

Raised sub chan to my systems max +6 on player , + 8 on pre/pro (+28 db above 1.32 level) and cannot even get a db reading 1 inch from sub (below 40db) with db meter . Check redirected bass from all chans no reading ie below 80hz bass is now not redirected (it was with 1.32).

I did watch some movies nothing below 80hz or LFE either to subs.

I did ring tech,and was refered to top pioneer tech in aust who deals with Japan and trains their etc.They have been told only ,design change.

Tried new 1.69 firmware too low to measure and set same as 1.65 did tests and sent figures etc to top pioneer tech to relay to japan,but he said they will not change this BM problem unless USA customers complain (aust is 1% of their market).

The sub chan with all speakers small is now 60db below other chans,and cannot be set much less listen to.

Due to this I am getting a refund from pioneer as I need a player meeting its specs with some bass management to operate in my system.

For those using analog out with an AVR ,to test you need to use A, players internal test tone,or test disc in player and check if levels are equal.(Do not use AVR test tones,only applicable to Digital from player).Use a db meter (which many seem not to have.) or calibrated mic etc.

I would think even using an AVR multi chan analog in ,the sub chan will also not be able to set ref 75db.Anyone ?

Pioneer Japan tested player only with their AVR,s and said sub chan
was ok,but down in level.


My question is,on analog outs there must be some rules from dolby and DTS so that the product is usable ? (I now must buy another brand of player because of this) I rely on the player to decode true HD and DTS ma correctly with regard to bass redirection for all small speaker settings and LFE ?

Regards Victor.

If the internal test noise remains silent, it could be a poor connection in the player's subwoofer signal path. Might be worth checking the innards to see if a connector or joint has come loose.

If the internal test noise remains silent, it could be a poor connection in the player's subwoofer signal path. Might be worth checking the innards to see if a connector or joint has come loose.

Hi Roger,

Player has been returned twice,they said sub output is ok.I thought maybe it was damaged.One reading I got was 44db 1 inch from sub when system was at my max level +28db over my 1.32 setting(I have fans in amps so may have read them.I checked with repair tech said if board was damaged none of the outputs would work.

Pioneer techs in japan tested new firmware only with their AVR range and said it was ok ?(This is what the Australian top tech has said,may or may not be true)

I am guessing they have made a mistake from 1.65 firmware as there is no bass redirection from any speakers set to small and my 80hz crossover.(like with the original firmware) maybe they have run out of DSP processor power with some new features in 1.65 ? I did give all my db readings ? to the tech in australia but as I am the only one to complain they said its not meant for systems like mine.Ie expensive,but it should not matter wether you use 1k amps or 100k amps sub chan should work and be able to set equal to other channels.

Lucky these guys in japan are not working for NASA.

Regards Victor.

Hi Roger,

Player has been returned twice,they said sub output is ok.I thought maybe it was damaged.One reading I got was 44db 1 inch from sub when system was at my max level +28db over my 1.32 setting(I have fans in amps so may have read them.I checked with repair tech said if board was damaged none of the outputs would work.

Pioneer techs in japan tested new firmware only with their AVR range and said it was ok ?(This is what the Australian top tech has said,may or may not be true)

I am guessing they have made a mistake from 1.65 firmware as there is no bass redirection from any speakers set to small and my 80hz crossover.(like with the original firmware) maybe they have run out of DSP processor power with some new features in 1.65 ? I did give all my db readings ? to the tech in australia but as I am the only one to complain they said its not meant for systems like mine.Ie expensive,but it should not matter wether you use 1k amps or 100k amps sub chan should work and be able to set equal to other channels.

Lucky these guys in japan are not working for NASA.

Regards Victor.

The responsibility of the +15dB boost (+10 if no bass management) to LFE is on the downstream equipment and not the BD/DVD player when using the MCH analog outputs. What receiver/prepro do you own and does it have the capability of boosting your analog LFE input by +15dB?

I am guessing they have made a mistake from 1.65 firmware as there is no bass redirection from any speakers set to small and my 80hz crossover.Easy enough to prove this simply by rolling back to the original firmware. Can you get hold of it?

Easy enough to prove this simply by rolling back to the original firmware. Can you get hold of it?

You cannot easlily rollback the firmware on an 05/51.

But if anyone's interested, I have every FW release since 1.02.

The responsibility of the +15dB boost (+10 if no bass management) to LFE is on the downstream equipment and not the BD/DVD player when using the MCH analog outputs. What receiver/prepro do you own and does it have the capability of boosting your analog LFE input by +15dB?

Hi,
settings for .1 chan was -14.5db for ref 75db with 1.32,

with 1.65 went to +8db on proceed AVP and cannot get 44db 1 inch from sub ,raised .1 chan by 28db over 1.32 firmware ?

When I returned player 1st time levels were as above low like 1.65 ,but when I recheck every setting they now had 1.32 again, but levels were as 1.65 firmware .So they did try that too Roger.

2nd time returned he loaded 1.65 firmware and was the same low level ,unable to calibrate .1 chan.

Then last week I loaded 1.69a firmware just incase they did have a fix but unfortunately still the same low level on the .1 chan.

Thankyou, for all the help and advice.
Regards Victor.

I have an HTPC and need to know the correct settings for ffdshow. I am using analog outs on a 4 channel system, 2 large front speakers and 2 medium rear speakers. I want LFE to come from the front speakers. Is it better to get the 10db boost in the "mixer" by bumping it to 300% or add 10db in the "volume" portion?

I have a Samsung BD-C6500 connected to a Yamaha HTR-5830 via 6 analog cables. Should I also have an optical or digital coaxial connected?

Thanks for the assistance!

I have a Samsung BD-C6500 connected to a Yamaha HTR-5830 via 6 analog cables. Should I also have an optical or digital coaxial connected?

Thanks for the assistance!

As with everything else in this world, it depends.

If you're only going to watch disks with multichannel soundtracks (Blu-ray or DVD), using just the 6 analog cables for 5.1 surround will be fine.

Connecting an optical or coax cable would be useful to show a friend how much better lossless is than a DVD's sound - but you could also do the same demo through the analog connection by using the remote's ability to toggle soundtracks with a disk that has DVD-style Dolby or DTS as well a lossless soundtrack.

With DVDs, it's a different story. Some older DVDs use just the front two channels - I even have one that uses just the front center channel.

With standard CDs, only the front two channels will be active.

You can hook up a second connection to use with disks that don't animate the other channels so that you can use the amp's built-in effects or pair the surround speakers with the front speakers.

You can make that second connection either digitally via optical or coax, or stay in analog mode by using a pair of Y-adapters that each have one RCA jack feeding a pair of RCA plugs (on wires a few inches long) to connect the multichannel analog front left and right outputs into the "DVD" (or "CD") jack as well as the front left and front right jacks. This may require boosting the player's output of those channels - or trimming all the others - by a small amount (about 1 db) to compensate for the fact that those outputs are now driving two input jacks.

(Some disk players have another analog alternative, in the form of a separate stereo output - which may or may not be as good as the multichannel front pair.)

Think of the doubling approach as turning the system into a big pair of headphones - or a big car stereo.

In my post a few further down this page, I discuss how, with an old program that was only recorded in stereo it may sound better to use the stereo track on a disk than to use the surround track on the disk, if the producers of the disk didn't do a good job of re-channeling it. (That's the case with the 1980 Paul Simon Philadelphia concert.)

PS In the unusual case of encoding the sound only into the front center channel - which I've only encountered on one DVD and on one Blu-ray - there's not a lot you can do. Just enjoy it the way it was intended.

I would recommend a second digital connection for use with DVDs and CDs. Digital audio processing in your receiver may help with those sources. But, a second connection is not necessary and it would merely be an alternate source to the analog inputs.

Some AVR's have no adjustible X-over

Some AVR's have no adjustible X-over

In that case, you probably want a more expensive source player that has good bass management over analog audio.

Any chance the first post can be updated to use this green color instead as the current one is really hard to read?

Just encountered my first Blu-ray that outputs sound only on the front center channel: The Adventures of Robin Hood, starring Errol Flynn and Olivia deHavilland, and a cast of villians including Basil Rathbone, with Claude Rains (of Casablanca) playing the usurping evil brother. (I was shocked, shocked, to see him in such a role.)

Since the image was in 4:3 "Academy" format (which was used by TV until the past few years), having the sound come from the center channel didn't bother me once I got used to it.

Interestingly, the disk includes an hour-long documentary about the rise and fall of the Technicolor multistrip process (three separate rolls of black and white film - one for each color - ran through the camera, which, like today's IMAX cameras, was rented - not sold - to the studios), documenting the studios' - and stars' - resistance to moving from black and white to color, with lots of clips from old films, and making a pitch for Technicolor's superiority over the single-strip multilayer color film from Kodak that supplanted it.

I've been finding, with stereo sources, that duplicating the front stereo signals out the surrounds is best for playing older sources through my 5.1 speaker system.

In fact, the DVD of the 1980 Paul Simon concert at Philadelpha's Tower Hall, with his very jazz-oriented One-Trick Pony band, sounds far better doubling the stereo soundtrack out the surrounds than listening to its DTS 5.1 track, which sounds hollow by comparison.

Re-channelling works no better for making surround out of stereo than it did for making stereo out of mono.

Unless a multichannel board recording was preserved - not very likely for anything shot on video before HD - use the stereo track, which is often uncompressed PCM - and thus superior sonically to the "lossy compressed" Dolby or DTS tracks.