I have an MX-700 that I haven't reprogrammed in a long time (since I got my new computer anyway). I've recently acquired a new TV and DVD player and need to update the programming.

I've been on the manufacturer's website, and while I can find some editor software for some remotes, I can't seem to find any for mine. Anyone have the software downloaded, or know where I can? Many thanks in advance.

Jeff

I have an MX-700 that I haven't reprogrammed in a long time (since I got my new computer anyway). I've recently acquired a new TV and DVD player and need to update the programming.

I've been on the manufacturer's website, and while I can find some editor software for some remotes, I can't seem to find any for mine. Anyone have the software downloaded, or know where I can? Many thanks in advance.

Jeff
I'll tell you where to get a copy in my next post(I am new here and to post a link I need 5 posts).

This guy has an older copy for download.
Here's the link:
http://www.prillaman.net/mx700_review.html
I also read that if you register you are allowed to download the latest by registering here(make sure you list an authorized dealer as your place of purchase):
http://www.universalremote.com/pro/registration.php
Just use their site to find an authorized dealer near you.
Good luck.

Many thanks for that. I was able to get the slightly older software working and got 95% of the programming that I wanted done (minus the discrete change to input 5 on my new TV). I'm working with URC to try and get the latest software that actually can be updated vis the web. We'll see how that goes :P

I'm having the same problem for my MX-800. I tried going to the link provided, but when I enter all my info and hit submit, it says "Serial number not valid for MX-800". Any idea how I can get the software?

I just got a new receiver, and desperately need to reprogram the remote. I rely on the RF functionality, as my A/V equipment isn't in my line of sight to be able to use IR. So currently, it's a little annoying.

Thanks in advance for any help!

At the beginning of August, URC made a "policy change" about the downloading of their MX-Editor software. They removed it from their site and eventually offered the link above. That link does work because I downloaded from it today. HOWEVER (and it is a BIG however)....

The version you download from the link Tony posted is NOT a fully functional version. That "consumer" version has Live Updates turned OFF. That software does not allow you to pull down the very latest IR codes from URC.

The ONLY way to get the fully functional (Live Update) version of the software is from an AUTHORIZED retailer that sold you the remote. As best I can tell, URC will not send it to you unless you can prove you bought the remote from an AUTHORIZED retailer.

Those of us that purchased our PC-programmable URC remotes from non-authorized sources like Amazon or eBay can only get the software that was up-to-date as of July 31. Any new IR codes added to URC's database since July 31 are not available to us.

And, yes, URC is applying this retroactively. The software we loaded PRIOR to July 31, which is the very same software we previously used for Live Updates, has had the Live Update feature turned effectively turned off. URC's site refuses to update those software versions.

The ridiculous part about this retroactive business is that URC got their money from me no matter WHERE I purchased the remote. They sold the remote to a custom installer or VAR and then the CI or VAR turned around and sold it to Amazon. URC probably forced the VAR to buy more than he needed or could sell so he just sold them off at cost to reduce inventory costs. So, regardless where I purchased the remote, URC got their asking price from the CI or VAR. Their gripe is with the CI or VAR. Yet, they have chosen to punish the consumer.

And, to be real clear... I'm not talking about a warranty issue. This is very different than the company refusing to honor a warranty on an item purchased from a non-authorized dealer. While I still think that stinks, it is not the same issue. This is about retroactively turning off functionality of a product that was previously FULLY SUPPORTED from a functional point of view.

Great move there URC! You can be assured that the MX-800 will be the LAST URC remote I ever buy and you can also be sure I will cease recommending them to friends.

Mark

Right.... but can anyone tell me where I can get older software? I don't care if the live update is off. ALL I want is to be able to open my last saved file, make some changes, and upload those changes to the remote. In specific, I had version 1.12 before... so if someone can guide me to that version of the software (or newer I guess), you'd be a lifesaver!

And yes, URC stinks for doing this... big time...

goatload,

The site worked perfectly to download the software yesterday. Were you careful to set the appropriate remote model from the drop down menu, and also set the appropriate serial number prefix from that drop down menu ("K", "KR", etc.)?

Hard to understand why it isn't working for some folks. Unless, of course, you don't have an actual serial number. Some of the CIs and VARs that sold them off to third parties (or on eBay) removed the serial number stickers before selling them. Without that serial number, you're dead in the water.

Mark

Mine doesn't have a "prefix", so I leave that drop down to "none". Mine just has the two sets of numbers on the sticker. :-/

Maybe I should try the serial with every one of those "prefix" dropdowns...

Looks like if i use "K" for my prefix, I get no errors about invalid serials... but I also don't get anywhere. It just reloads the same form. That's it. Ugh... this is incredibly annoying and frustrating.

The first time I tried, it reloaded the same form for me too. That was because I left one of the other required fields blank. I persisted, and it let me download. But it is still the version with Live Update turned off!!!!!! :mad:

Mark

I don't remember exactly how I formatted the serial number when I plugged it in but the fields they have on the website do not correspond to how the serial number on you MX-700 is probably broken up. They have a phone number on the website - call them and tell them you are having difficulty inputting your serial number and they will help you put the right numbers in the right field to be able to download the software.

This move by URC has got to be the biggest corporate screw-up ever made by a manufacturer. If they have such a big issue with "unauthorized dealers", here's a clue: don't sell to them!

Make your distributers sign an iron-clad agreement limiting the sales and marketing of the product, with hefty fines for not playing by the rules. It works for Paradigm.

Does URC really believe this is the best solution? Or are they simply enjoying the best of both worlds: reaping smaller profits from high-volume sales from the low-ball unauthorized distributors, and only supporting the high-profit, low volume dealers.

From here on out, I'm going out of my way to ensure no-one I talk to buys a URC product.

goatload, I have software that is about 2 yrs old, I will have to transfer it off of my old windows me laptop and then email it you, pm me your email address and I will get it to you sometime this weekend.

also tried to register my remote to download but it is telling me my serial# is not valid, I have a 10 character serial on the inside of my battery door, is this the serial #???

On the older MX Remotes there is a different serial number format that cannot be directly entered on URC's Site. Try the following if you have a serial number in the format xxxx yyyyyy. I believe that the x's denote the manufacture date and the y's denote the serial number. An example would be 0703 012345.

When you input the serial number choose a letter in the drop down menu and enter your serial number twice (once in each blank). The above example would be entered as K 012345 012345. If this doesn't work try one of the other letter combos such as KR, KB12 or KB13 in the drop down menu or leave it blank.

Sunstar,

Thanks for the tip. I hope it works out for those that have the older serial numbers.

But, as a reminder, that will only get you the version of the Universal Database that was up-to-date as of July 31. Live Update will be turned OFF for the software you download from URC's site.

BTW, I wrote URC about my situation and that led to a telephone conversation with one of their support reps. Despite the fact that I got my remote from Amazon, he agreed to send me the newer version of the MX-Editor with Live Update turned ON. I just finished installing that newer verson of the software and Live Update is once again working. My Universal Database is now up to version 1.78 with a date of November 6, 2006.

Mark

Sunstar,

Thanks for the tip. I hope it works out for those that have the older serial numbers.

But, as a reminder, that will only get you the version of the Universal Database that was up-to-date as of July 31. Live Update will be turned OFF for the software you download from URC's site.

BTW, I wrote URC about my situation and that led to a telephone conversation with one of their support reps. Despite the fact that I got my remote from Amazon, he agreed to send me the newer version of the MX-Editor with Live Update turned ON. I just finished installing that newer verson of the software and Live Update is once again working. My Universal Database is now up to version 1.78 with a date of November 6, 2006.

Mark

Here, here - fully agree. I'd highly recommend people look elsewhere and only if URC remotes do so much more than others available, buy it. With this policy, the consumer is being screwed and I'd certainly not recommend their products to any other person.

On the older MX Remotes there is a different serial number format that cannot be directly entered on URC's Site. Try the following if you have a serial number in the format xxxx yyyyyy. I believe that the x's denote the manufacture date and the y's denote the serial number. An example would be 0703 012345.

When you input the serial number choose a letter in the drop down menu and enter your serial number twice (once in each blank). The above example would be entered as K 012345 012345. If this doesn't work try one of the other letter combos such as KR, KB12 or KB13 in the drop down menu or leave it blank.
didnt work for me, can someone who sucessfully downloaded the software make it available.

I am in the same boat here too, and I bought from an Authorized Dealer, but they wont give me the software to update, so I too am looking. I think they just want $$ for changes.

URC is really intent on alienating the people who pay the bills, aren't they? They're clearly putting the interests of custom installers and authorized dealers far ahead of consumers. This short-sighted business plan will come back to haunt them. Count me as another user who will strongly recommend against buying ANY URC product in the future.

I agree with it being horrible that URC has gone the route of not supporting their products to non authorized dealers and installers.
But I am a programer and I love the customization of the mx remotes.
If it wasn't for that I wouldn't get one either.
But I was SO impressed with the software customization of the mx-950, that against advice, I just bought one(from an un authorized dealer too, but with an extended warrenty).
I wish harmony or Monster(I like their AVS-300 somewhat), would make stand alone programs like Universal does to fully customize their remotes too.
Until then , the Universal remotes are STILL programable as long as Universal keeps their software up, and the only ones that seam to offer full customization to the consumer.
The only problem is that you are stuck with older copys without the IR database updates.
I have found a way around that registration process on Universal's site to directly download the software.
But , as Mark stated, it's only updated to July 2006.
Here's my thread listing the direct downlaod links:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=764715
Enjoy

thanks for the links tony.

URC's policy shift is working.

They wanted to combat grey market sales since they couldn't control them. Now, they have a SW policy that is making the SW more difficult to get, and people are complaining and taking their business elsewhere.

I'm honestly not here to gloat, but this was the intention; to make it a CI only remote. It's obviously working. I'm sorry you guys had such a tought time getting SW, but URC isn't going to change it.

And they won't be getting any more of my business either. Why do they care who buys them? Same money in their pocket. Actually it is probably less these days since in the HT enthusiast community they are pissing off more people than they are pleasing. The whole concept of being an "authorized" dealer is just retarded to begin with. I've never utilized any "services" an authorized dealer is supposed to provide. I don't need any hand holding. Just sell me the damn thing and I'll be on my way.

-Dave

Well the thing is that to someone that loves to tinker and tweek and customize things, THESE ARE STILL GREAT REMOTES.
After owning a harmony and hating that I have to be connected to the internet to program it, being limited by the activity states not tweekable(i.e. just have input states not pwr states, a much better way), etc., and the fact my harmony gave out in 3 weeks, I started looking for a better, fully consumer customizeable remote.
After figuring out how to download the mx software and playing with the mx-950's setups, I was extreemly impressed.
But I WASN'T going to pay $500-$700 to an authorized dealer for a mx-950, when I could get it cheaper elsewhere.
To cover hardware warrenty I bought a cheap $40 2 year extended warrenty.
I was able to fully program it with the non updatable software from Universal's site.
Right now I am awaiting a newer updatable version from someone I found over at remotecentral(I won't say who), for free.
So, once I receive that, I am good, saved a lot, and have a great remote.
Although it's a bit of a hassle, I feel others can and will do this too.
I am also willing to share what I have to help others too.

But if it wasn't for my research here and on remote central reguarding the software problem and figured out how to get it, I would have been out of luck.
I feel sorry for the uninformed consumer who buys this remote from an unauthorized dealer, and ends up not being able to program it because they don't know how to get the software, etc.

thanks again tony very good info. BTW I see the words "discrete codes" mentioned alot, what does this mean.

thanks again tony very good info. BTW I see the words "discrete codes" mentioned alot, what does this mean.
Anything to help others. :)
"discrete codes" usually refer to a "discrete" power on power off code vs toggle switches (serves for both on/off).
With discrete on/off you don't need a remote that needs to figure out what state the component was last at(on or off), you just send a discrete off or on to it.
These states are what make the harmonys great, but can also cause problems with other remotes, etc.
The mx-950(the only hard button remote with universal that has variables) has varibles to remember these states, and can be customized to use them or not(unlike the harmonys, which will always use them).
That's what I like about the mx-950 vs the harmony remotes:
It can be programed to do EVERYTHING the harmonys can(and more), but is fully customizable.
Hope that kind of explains it a bit.

Anything to help others. :)
"discrete codes" usually refer to a "discrete" power on power off code vs toggle switches (serves for both on/off).
.
you mean like with the directivo's where you have to go into the menu to turn it into standby?

you mean like with the directivo's where you have to go into the menu to turn it into standby?
No.
It means that you have a way to send a discrete ON or OFF to a component.
A lot of components only have one button that "toggles" between ON or OFF.
With smart remotes(like the harmonys, or mx-950, if you program it in), they will KNOW which power state the component was last in(or which input it was on) by saving a variable.
That way when you switch to let's say from playing a VCR to playing a DVD player, which may have only toggle power switches, and no discrete ON or OFF codes, it will KNOW that the VCR was on, and turn the VCR OFF and the DVD ON, etc.
But:
If your VCR and DVD has "discrete" POWER ON and POWER OFF, you don't have to have the remote remember anything.
It just turns the VCR OFF and the DVD ON.
This is kind of getting into advanced remote programing.
The mx-950 is great to do that with, IF you fully understand it all.

No.
It means that you have a way to send a discrete ON or OFF to a component.
A lot of components only have one button that "toggles" between ON or OFF.
With smart remotes(like the harmonys, or mx-950, if you program it in), they will KNOW which power state the component was last in(or which input it was on) by saving a variable.
That way when you switch to let's say from playing a VCR to playing a DVD player, which may have only toggle power switches, and no discrete ON or OFF codes, it will KNOW that the VCR was on, and turn the VCR OFF and the DVD ON, etc.
But:
If your VCR and DVD has "discrete" POWER ON and POWER OFF, you don't have to have the remote remember anything.
It just turns the VCR OFF and the DVD ON.
This is kind of getting into advanced remote programing.
The mx-950 is great to do that with, IF you fully understand it all.
I think I understand , I have my components set so that if I want to switch to the dvd player, the macro button will switch on the dvd player, swicth the input to dvd, and audio on the reciever, and to go back it does the opposite.

Actually, discrete codes are more simple than Tony's explanation. A discrete ON code can ONLY turn a component on and a discrete OFF code can ONLY turn a component off.

So, your TV is already on and you send it a discrete ON code, it will remain on. It will not toggle off as it would with the standard power button the factory remote. Likewise, if the TV is off and you send it discrete ON code, it will turn on.

Reverse it for the discrete OFF code. It will only turn off a component that is already on because that code can do is turn it off.

Discrete codes are very important for Macros. A Macro is a string of different commands sent via a single button press. For instance, you might set up a Macro to:

1) Turn on the TV
2) Set the TV to Digital Input 1
3) Turn on the A/V Receiver
4) Set the A/V Receiver to DVD
5) Turn on the DVD player
6) Eject the DVD disc tray, readying it for a DVD disc.

If you don't have discrete codes for your components, in the above example, if the TV, AV/Receiver or DVD player is already ON before you send the Macro, the standard power toggle would turn those items off.

Conversely, with a discrete ON code for each component, the TV or other component could be ON and when it receives the discrete ON code it would simply remain on.

Now, the reason this is all very important to the discussion of URC's software policy change is this.... Very very few factory remotes have discrete ON or OFF codes in them. In most cases, you get those discrete codes from the DATABASE of IR codes that URC supplies with their software. Said database is the thing that gets updated when you use "Live Update" in the URC MX Editor software. No "Live Update" feature means you can't get access to any newer codes that URC might have added for newer components.

Yes, there are other ways to get the discrete codes. But much of the "power" of the URC software and the PC-programability of their remotes lies in that extensive collection of IR codes in that database. A database that is constantly being updated. A database who's updates are NOT available to folks saddled with the "No Live Update" version of the software.

Mark

True Mark.
Being an Engineer gives me a tendacy to overcomplicate explainations, etc. :)

Yes, I was surprized to find that URC had discrete ON and OFF codes for my HDTV.
I was lucky that all of my components were in the mx-950's nonupdatable Aug 1 database I downloaded.
If they weren't, even though I can learn from other remotes, I wouldn't have the discrete ON and OFF codes, which make it nice for not having to assign PWR state variables. I would have to find a hex file, etc., that someone else had, that had them and posted, and try to inport it into the mx editor.
Doable, but a pain.

Plus I was over at remotecentral, and in November, URC updated the mx-900's firmware to resolve a button press issue.
So for those discrete codes and firmware updates to resolve some issues, the "live update" is needed.
So there are risks to be taken when buying from an unauthorized dealer.

But even so:
I am VERY happy with my mx-950 remote!

called universal today and told them the serial number format I have does not work on their web site, they issued me a new number and I downloaded the software.

edit: they gave me the consumer version which is the latest but the live update is disabled, you have t0 download the software everytime you want to update, i need to try and get the professional version.

The "consumer version" (as you call it) that I downloaded about two weeks ago still had the database dated in June or July. Then, when I got the Live Update version it had a database dated in November. So, as of two week ago, the version with Live Updated disabled had a database that was at least 4 months old.

Hopefully, URC has changed that since then. But, somehow, I doubt it. I think you are being overly optomistic in thinking that you can keep downloading "consumer version" and keep getting updated database. So far, URC hasn't shown that such will be the case.

Mark

The "consumer version" (as you call it)


I think you are being overly optomistic in thinking that you can keep downloading "consumer version" and keep getting updated database.
Mark
actually I didnt name it the "consumer version" URC did it.

No I am not overly optomistic, I am simply stating what URC told me.

If you have the version with the live update then why dont you help us all out and make it available to us. :confused:

If you have the version with the live update then why dont you help us all out and make it available to us. :confused:

Because it is illegal to distribute the software and I don't need URC breathing down my neck.

Mark

I've received a couple more E-mails and private messages from folks asking me to provide them with the newer, Live Update enabled, version of the MX-800 editor software. As I mentioned above, I'm not willing to do that. There are others that are reading these topics (both here, and over at remotecentral.com) that offered to provide the software to me when I first started posting about this. And, in fact, I did download the software from one fellow's site (that he put up only long enough for me to download) BUT I NEVER UNARCHIVED THE FILE. Why? Because I was already in the process of getting the software directly from URC. And when URC cooperated, sending me the software on a CD-R, I deleted the other file. As mad as I was at URC, I felt guilty about acquring their software "illegally". Not that I don't feel that I'm entitled. I do. But there was much more satisfaction in getting it directly from URC.

So, I'm sorry.... I won't be distributing the software to ANYONE. It's simply against my principles. I felt bad enough "accepting" the download the one fellow offered.

My suggestion is for everyone needing the software to:

A) Call URC support and plead your case. You will likely need a serial number on your remote (under the batteries) to get them to cooperate. You will also need to tell them which unauthorized vendor you got your remote from.

B) If you got your remote from an authorized dealer, then that dealer should provide you with the software.

C) If you got your remote from an unauthorized dealer and your serial number is missing, then your best bet is probably to post a message in the big forum thread pertaining to this over at remotecentral.com. There are MANY sympathetic ears over there. I even had one custom installer in my local area E-mail me and offer to come to my house and install the software for me based upon my complaints in that big thread.

Good luck!

Mark

Never Mind, I Read the URC policy, your right



I didnt know it was illegal to give away free software Mark,I thought it was only software that is sold and had individual serial #'s but maybe I was wrong. thanks anyway.

This move by URC has got to be the biggest corporate screw-up ever made by a manufacturer. If they have such a big issue with "unauthorized dealers", here's a clue: don't sell to them!

Make your distributers sign an iron-clad agreement limiting the sales and marketing of the product, with hefty fines for not playing by the rules. It works for Paradigm.

Does URC really believe this is the best solution? Or are they simply enjoying the best of both worlds: reaping smaller profits from high-volume sales from the low-ball unauthorized distributors, and only supporting the high-profit, low volume dealers.

From here on out, I'm going out of my way to ensure no-one I talk to buys a URC product.

Well I am an RTI and URC dealer, and I appreciate manufactures that protect their product lines. It in no way is intended to hurt or screw the consumer, but rather get them a capable remote in their hands that works appropriatly. It also prevents internet dealers (aka people with a garage and no overhead) selling them for nickels over cost which people like me cannot do. Could you imagine letting everyone have the software? You might say YEAH i could! It would be awesome! But think of the support required to keep consumers on the right path during the programming process(Just look at how many harmony threads are on here!!!!) I would say the average person would make a few phone calls to get their remote programmed. Now if its in the hands of trained programmers that have done X amount of remotes, they will probably fuction better, have a better name as far as brand quality because its programmed well.

Now the downside to controlling the software is that capable people cannot make changes to their remotes, dealers that initially programmed it may go away and leave the customer stranded without the abilities to update the remotes (favorite pages, and hardware changes)


B

Because it is illegal to distribute the software and I don't need URC breathing down my neck.

Mark

Me either! =) I am not trying to be a jerk either, but like any other dealer we have certain agreements with manufactures, which we are obligated to honor. If we do not then we are no longer a dealer.

URC as most manufactures that requires software uses this as a way to keep unauthorized people for selling their equipment. Which protects us the dealers, and you the consumer, keeping you with products with a warranty and good support.


B

PS anyone with a URC remote that wants some minor changes could ship it to me and I'd be happy to help you out.

thanks for the reply crazy, but I think it is screwing the consumer, imagine microsoft saying well, if you dont buy windows directly from us, you cant get windows updates. I did get the software 2 days ago b/c I bought from an authorized retailer but the policy is not fair.

Well I am an RTI and URC dealer, and I appreciate manufactures that protect their product lines. It in no way is intended to hurt or screw the consumer, but rather get them a capable remote in their hands that works appropriatly. It also prevents internet dealers (aka people with a garage and no overhead) selling them for nickels over cost which people like me cannot do.

Some assumptions here.....So in your opinion, if urc only sells these remotes to authorized dealers and installers to 'protect the product line' how do you think the unauthorized dealers are getting these products? Why punish the end consumer for a problem urc has with it's dealers?

Fortunatly there are many other options out there, Personally I know why they control the software as I mentioned above, it controls gray markets gear, and unauthorized people reselling it.

Anyways hope you get it all working!
Brandon

Some assumptions here.....So in your opinion, if urc only sells these remotes to authorized dealers and installers to 'protect the product line' how do you think the unauthorized dealers are getting these products? Why punish the end consumer for a problem urc has with it's dealers?


They should do a better job, by tracking serial numbers then the people doing it would be found quickly. Unfortunatly since these are sold through distrubution it would be nearly impossible to get all the distrubutors to feedback all the information to them reguarding each remote.
I don't think they are 'punishing' the end user. They want you to have a product you are satisfied with, and what they found is ones that are sold sideways and not programmed properly hurt their reputation when someone make a comment like 'X remote sucks because....' Usually its a programming error, as the remotes usually do what they are told.

If you would like, I would encourage you to email URC your concerns. That or simply not purchase their equipment. When you purchase it you understand exactly waht your getting in to with the restrictions on the software availability. If you still choose to get it then I can' feel sorry for you.

Brandon

Thanks for the feedback Brandon. I'm not on the anti-urc bandwagon, but I do think their policy is a bit skewed. URC has the ability to control their distribution and that there would solve their problem instead of placing this responsibility on the end user. Which is where it is.

For a product like this I probably wouldn't check for an authorized dealer and would have bought it through newegg or amazon. Heck with the size and amount of business those two do I would have assumed it was a legitimate source. Not even thinking of having software issues. Fortunately at the time I was looking for a remote I found out about this policy as I was looking at an mx700. Didn't want the potential hassles and ended up with a harmony though still kinda wished for the mx, but happy with my harmony.

I don't think they are 'punishing' the end user. They want you to have a product you are satisfied with, They certainly are. For 4 years I happily programmed my own MX-700 and kept the software updated via Live Update, now they won't allow me to do that anymore. So, I was a satisfied customer, now I am not a satisfied customer. So their policy is having the exact opposite effect of what they were attempting to accomplish.

You're happy URC did this because you see $$, that's all. You expect business to increase because this will artificially create demand for your services. Milking a cash cow, that's all it is. Put any spin you want on it, it's all basically just BS.

Which protects us the dealers, and you the consumer, keeping you with products with a warranty and good support. Yes it protects you dealers at the cost of us consumers. It does not protect us consumers as you state, quite the opposite. It forces us to pay for a service that we don't need to pay for. It only protects you and your cash flow.

PS anyone with a URC remote that wants some minor changes could ship it to me and I'd be happy to help you out.At what cost? Free? Out of the goodness of your heart? And you'll pay for shipping both ways? And you'll send a loaner remote first so the customer won't be without? See what an inconvenience this is? As opposed to just connecting it to my PC and making the modifications required and being done in 10 minutes or so.

You did make one good point, lets all email URC.

Let them know how you feel! :D

[edited to remove e-mail address. Posting an address asking for people to just "them them know" via e-mail is not something we like to see.]

Screw URC, RTI and the rest for assuming CI's are the only people capable of working with their products. As this entire site can easily attest to, there is a huge "pro-sumer" market out there that can easily match skills with the "professionals". I've got the MX-3000, T2, T2+ and am looking to upgrade to something (maybe T3?) but seriously hate the draconian views these manufacturers have of the consumer.

If anyone not in the moral majority here has the "pro version" of the URC MX software (Live Updates enabled) and can send it to me, I'll happily host it on my FTP.

Give it to me and I'll give it to the world!!!

I am one of the guys that has tried to get the updated software from some other users. I bought my mx800 as a product and a SERVICE two years ago. the product is great, always has been. URC has now cheated me, IMO. They have taken away the service which they sold me two years ago.
At that time when I purchased the product URC could have stated that it only lasted a year. I would probably purchased it even if they charged for each update. But this was not the policy. The policy was that I would receive free updates. "wow, I think I will buy that brand, product and service!!" I feel now with their new policy they will not sell nearly as many remotes but that is fine, that is their business decision. What is ethically wrong is taking away something that was already sold. In other words they should have said from this remote henceforth we will not be updating consumer versions. It is akin to stealing or at least fraud. (taking back a service) they should refund our money or at least part of it. You bet I will email them. Allthough it will probably do no good since many on other sites have commented that URC doesnt typically reply to EM's. I wish I could afford a class action law suit. Thats how the business world works.

If anyone is interested in emailing URC there is some information at this link suggesting who you might want to email.

Universal Remote Control Alienation Policy (http://www.curtronics.com/URC.html)

My origianl post was subject to censorship. Does URC advertise here?

If anyone is interested in emailing URC there is some information at this link suggesting who you might want to email.

Universal Remote Control Alienation Policy (http://www.curtronics.com/URC.html)

My origianl post was subject to censorship. Does URC advertise here?I would think the owners of this forum don't want to have a flurry of harrassing of mass emails suddenly start appearing from their domain into the URC mailboxes since they're in the same industry. I agree. But what URC has done to existing owners does suck and will certainly keep me from upgrading from my trusty MX-500.

I would think the owners of this forum don't want to have a flurry of harrassing of mass emails suddenly start appearing from their domain into the URC mailboxes since they're in the same industry. I agree. But what URC has done to existing owners does suck and will certainly keep me from upgrading from my trusty MX-500.It wouldn't be from their domain, the source and return domain in the address would be that of the sender, not AVS Forum. There would be no tell tale sign that AVS was involved, it's not like the RFC Received lines in the email header have referer info embedded in them like clicking on HTML links do.

You're happy URC did this because you see $$, that's all. You expect business to increase because this will artificially create demand for your services. Milking a cash cow, that's all it is. Put any spin you want on it, it's all basically just BS.

The BS is your myopic view of the entire situation mixed with a healthy dose of cynicism. I know you're not happy about it and I don't expect you to be, but what's with the crusade? You'd say more to URC by not buying their remotes, as opposed to sending them emails.

Nobody is creating an environment to 'force' people to pay CI's, that's not what this is about. That's a joke. There are issues with channel control, of which Crazy1 did touch on. It's not a perfect world and you can hammer URC for all it's imperfection, but at least they tried to fix a problem; a problem that some of you 'pro-sumer' pros don't know about and don't seem to acknowledge as a problem, because it's not a problem to you.

Yes it protects you dealers at the cost of us consumers.

More jaded hyperbole based in nothing more than antagonism and misinformation. There's more that went into this decision than just money. Someone attempted to explain this to you, but it sure seems like you aren't open to this viable and pragmatic dynamic, which is too bad.

Look, some of you guys are PO'd and I don't blame you. I don't think URC is perfect. But URC made a decision to try and control their channels of remotes, of which control and delegation of SW tools is one aspect. Good, bad, or indifferent, that's what happened. But, some of the spin about 'forcing consumers to use CI's' and other inferences to good old CI greed are nothing more than that, spin. So, anybody who says they won't buy another URC remote because you don't like their policy, I can't argue. If you want to state that they're going to lose sales, we can debate that. But when you say things such as "URC is punishing their customers" I'm going to call it what it is, good ol fashioned hyperbole.

Screw URC, RTI and the rest for assuming CI's are the only people capable of working with their products. As this entire site can easily attest to, there is a huge "pro-sumer" market out there that can easily match skills with the "professionals". I've got the MX-3000, T2, T2+ and am looking to upgrade to something (maybe T3?) but seriously hate the draconian views these manufacturers have of the consumer.

Another tenet of the anti-URC crowd. As anybody with a modicum of sense, DIY or CI, there is a fair amount of very capable people on this forum and RC that take this equipment to it's limits. Yet, to assume that all participants of this forum are as capable as your boasting self is fallacy. One only has to peruse this forum to realize that most aren't as skilled as yourself.

It only stands to reason and logic that any manufacturer has a responsibility to make sure their equipment is maximized. Many of you can maximize it without a pros help. Some of you are probably more skilled than any pro you can get out of the phone book. Having said that, it's still reasonable for URC to want these remotes channeled through competent CI's or AD's so the support is there, should it be needed.

Most buyers aren't getting that right now buying off the grey market.

The BS is your myopic view of the entire situation mixed with a healthy dose of cynicism. I know you're not happy about it and I don't expect you to be, but what's with the crusade? You'd say more to URC by not buying their remotes, as opposed to sending them emails. Nope. They lose one sale? Doesn't mean that much to them. Keeping the issue in public view, that may lose them more then one sale.

And you're view, being an installer, isn't myopic? LOL

Nobody is creating an environment to 'force' people to pay CI's, that's not what this is about. That's a joke. There are issues with channel control, of which Crazy1 did touch on. It's not a perfect world and you can hammer URC for all it's imperfection, but at least they tried to fix a problem; a problem that some of you 'pro-sumer' pros don't know about and don't seem to acknowledge as a problem, because it's not a problem to you.They tried to fix a problem of theirs that benefits URC and dealers. Period. And consumers that already own one of their products are the ones being affected. But of course, that's perfectly Ok with you because you're on the dealer/installer side and you get the benefits. Talk about myopic. Hey, take a look in the mirror some time soon will ya?

This pretty much says that URC wants (yes is not forcing?) you to use a CI.

"While it may be possible for a hobbyist or Do-It-Yourselfer to derive partial functionality, it is our strong conviction, based upon extended experience, that our products will not deliver their maximum potential unless they are professionally programmed."

(And I'm sure you've seen this before.) Unless of course you don't have the device codes you need, and URC won't give them to you now, so you have to go to a CI. Oh. That's pretty much the definition of forcing.

More jaded hyperbole based in nothing more than antagonism and misinformation. There's more that went into this decision than just money. Someone attempted to explain this to you, but it sure seems like you aren't open to this viable and pragmatic dynamic, which is too bad. In your opinion. Which you're allowed to have. Hey! I'm allowed to have mine too! Wow! What a concept, eh? Boy, anything you don't agree with is myopic, jaded, hyperbole, misinformation. So, nobody but you are entitled to have their own opinions, eh?

Look, some of you guys are PO'd and I don't blame you. I don't think URC is perfect. But URC made a decision to try and control their channels of remotes, of which control and delegation of SW tools is one aspect. Good, bad, or indifferent, that's what happened. But, some of the spin about 'forcing consumers to use CI's' and other inferences to good old CI greed are nothing more than that, spin. So, anybody who says they won't buy another URC remote because you don't like their policy, I can't argue. If you want to state that they're going to lose sales, we can debate that. But when you say things such as "URC is punishing their customers" I'm going to call it what it is, good ol fashioned hyperbole.CI greed. It's all spin. Yada Yada Yada. That's all it is. Yeah right. This coming from an installer. Wait, let me think how much weight I'll give, and how much belief I'll have in your statements that it's not about $$. I'll get back to ya on that. :rolleyes:

Nope. They lose one sale? Doesn't mean that much to them. Keeping the issue in public view, that may lose them more then one sale.

And you're view, being an installer, isn't myopic? LOL

I can see it from all sides. I know, hard to believe, but it's true. The fact is that URC is making headway in achieving a stated goal, to combat grey market sales. People like you are helping this process along.

They tried to fix a problem of theirs that benefits URC and dealers. Period. And consumers that already own one of their products are the ones being affected. But of course, that's perfectly Ok with you because you're on the dealer/installer side and you get the benefits. Talk about myopic. Hey, take a look in the mirror some time soon will ya?

I can see your antagonism growing. Might as well turn this into a RedStateBlueState debate. Just kidding.

This process will likely end up being beneficial to end users also, including the ones (like you) who don't want any help from a CI. The only difference is that you may have to purchase from different sources, not internet flea markets. So, no benefit to people like you. To others, who buy the remotes and don't have as easy a time as people like you, they should be able to get help from the person they purchased the remote from (not URC). Benefit to them. I'm not going to explain benefits to CI's or URC since you wouldn't listen anyway. Or, you might misquote and tell me what it says.

This pretty much says that URC wants (yes is not forcing?) you to use a CI.

"While it may be possible for a hobbyist or Do-It-Yourselfer to derive partial functionality, it is our strong conviction, based upon extended experience, that our products will not deliver their maximum potential unless they are professionally programmed."

(And I'm sure you've seen this before.) Unless of course you don't have the device codes you need, and URC won't give them to you now, so you have to go to a CI. Oh. That's pretty much the definition of forcing.

Yes, I've seen it before. Many times. The funny thing is than each and every person says that statement says something different, all with certainty equal in fervor to your own. Who to believe? Surely, that statement can't say all the things people keep saying it says it does.


Boy, anything you don't agree with is myopic, jaded, hyperbole, misinformation. So, nobody but you are entitled to have their own opinions, eh?

More fallacy charading as logic. You've made many statements, of which some of them I have properly attributed those descriptors. You've made some statements I can't argue with (or agree with) or attribute said adjectives to. But, your last statement....fallacy. Antagonistic. Spin, BS. Maybe we should just stick to the subject, eh?

CI greed. It's all spin. Yada Yada Yada. That's all it is. Yeah right. This coming from an installer. Wait, let me think how much weight I'll give, and how much belief I'll have in your statements that it's not about $$. I'll get back to ya on that. :rolleyes:

I couldn't make any better argument that you are as biased if not more biased than you say I am. Since you aren't part of this industry, and you are angry at the URC policy change, then I suppose that anything you say is totally biased and not worthy of any merit because you don't trust anybody not in your same position. Likewise, you obviously don't understand the dynamics between URC, CI's, and the industry as a whole because of some of the statements you've made. So, should I take your assertions at face value?

Likewise, you obviously don't understand the dynamics between URC, CI's, and the industry as a whole because of some of the statements you've made. You keep hiding behind this statement but you never explain it. Here, let me make a couple off the cuff statements that I'll assume you know nothing about (like you are assuming) and then blindly hide behind those statements using them to discredit you and your opinion/knowledge.

Your right, I knowing nothing about retail sales, supply and demand, product support, customer support, etc. :rolleyes: You know nothing about me, you know nothing about my experiences, careers, education, training, etc. but you assume I know nothing and you know everything. You are the epitome of the word assume in this instance. And this time I am pigeon holing you because you are demonstrating this by your actions.

You continually attempt to discredit my opinion without providing any factual data. Could that be because you have none?

You keep hiding behind this statement but you never explain it. Here, let me make a couple off the cuff statements that I'll assume you know nothing about (like you are assuming) and then blindly hide behind those statements using them to discredit you and your opinion/knowledge.

Your right, I knowing nothing about retail sales, supply and demand, product support, customer support, etc. :rolleyes: You know nothing about me, you know nothing about my experiences, careers, education, training, etc. but you assume I know nothing and you know everything. You are the epitome of the word assume in this instance. And this time I am pigeon holing you because you are demonstrating this by your actions.

You continually attempt to discredit my opinion without providing any factual data. Could that be because you have none?

I am not going to comment on your demeanor, you are obviously angry. What I will say is that I am an installer, and I do have access to the updates. I had no say in whether or not URC made this switch. I did not change their policy. My customer base has not changed in any way. We sell the remotes to customers where we have installed their entire system. The remote comes with the package basically. To date, not one of these customers has ever asked to install the remote themselves, edit or update the remote themselves, or even asked how it gets installed. They just want us to come in, install it, show them how to use, and be gone. Now my problem is that you blindly assume that all installers agree with this policy to "line our pockets". My business has not changed nor will it. It is not where my market is. So you saying that I will be making more therefore I agree with the policy is as blind a statement as me saying that you will screw your remote up because you don't have the proper training. It just wouldn't be true. So for that I take offense.

Furthermore, unless I am mistaken, the only real change in this software is there are no longer updates to the IR database. I honestly am not 100% since I have not seen the change personally. If this is the case, then grab your original remotes, do some IR learning, and program to your hearts content. It may take some extra time of course, and there may be a code missing here or there, but it will work. It's not like URC has an incredible IR database to begin with. Again, I could be a little off here as I have not had any experience with this software that no longer receives updates.

golovemd

Angry? Yeah, well maybe. Definitely not happy. Well, at least regarding URC's policy. Really happy about a lot of other things. It's been a great Christmas, in fact a great month, in fact a great year.

But, I do apologize for lumping you in with the rest. And there are probably a lot of other dealers that would be due that same apology also.

You seem like a reasonable, sensible person able to debate an issue without resorting to using really big impressive words to blow someone's opinion away and at the same time including personal attacks, like BigPapa seems to need to do.

Based on your approach to the situation, you're the type of person I would hire in a heartbeat if I had the need.

As an example, I had a Solar PV system installed this past summer. Last fall when I was getting quotes, one contractor impressed me so much with his attention to detail and follow though I stopped getting quotes and hired him. Was he the cheapest? Don't know. Was he the most expensive? Don't know. Did he do a good job and was I happy with the installation? You betcha. My point is, it's not just about the cost.

You obviously don't need URC's protection. I've been reading a lot of threads of late (since March) with nothing but dealers bitching and moaning and whining how their business is hurting, they can't make a go of it because other dealers are undercutting them on URC products. So, my opinion may be slightly tainted as of late. But you making it in the same arena, goes to show it's doable and maybe these other dealers need to learn a new approach.

I definitely would not ever consider hiring any of them.

Again, I apologize for the lumping, I know there are a lot of you out there that provide good value for the dollar and excellent service.

There is an high end A/V dealer locally that is exactly like that and they are always my first stop when looking for something. They have my respect for 30 some years now.

golovemd

Angry? Yeah, well maybe. Definitely not happy. Well, at least regarding URC's policy. Really happy about a lot of other things. It's been a great Christmas, in fact a great month, in fact a great year.

But, I do apologize for lumping you in with the rest. And there are probably a lot of other dealers that would be due that same apology also.

You seem like a reasonable, sensible person able to debate an issue without resorting to using really big impressive words to blow someone's opinion away and at the same time including personal attacks, like BigPapa seems to need to do.

Based on your approach to the situation, you're the type of person I would hire in a heartbeat if I had the need.

As an example, I had a Solar PV system installed this past summer. Last fall when I was getting quotes, one contractor impressed me so much with his attention to detail and follow though I stopped getting quotes and hired him. Was he the cheapest? Don't know. Was he the most expensive? Don't know. Did he do a good job and was I happy with the installation? You betcha. My point is, it's not just about the cost.

You obviously don't need URC's protection. I've been reading a lot of threads of late (since March) with nothing but dealers bitching and moaning and whining how their business is hurting, they can't make a go of it because other dealers are undercutting them on URC products. So, my opinion may be slightly tainted as of late. But you making it in the same arena, goes to show it's doable and maybe these other dealers need to learn a new approach.

I definitely would not ever consider hiring any of them.

Again, I apologize for the lumping, I know there are a lot of you out there that provide good value for the dollar and excellent service.

There is an high end A/V dealer locally that is exactly like that and they are always my first stop when looking for something. They have my respect for 30 some years now.

Thanks, I appreciate that. One thing I have learned over time is that you just have to go with the flow. I am not a dealer that relies 100% on a remote control system. We more or less offer them with our systems, and explain how these will make their life easier and allow them to enjoy their system. The majority of our customers just do not have the knowledge base and really have a difficult time just turning on a system. We have done some harmony remotes, but they are just not as customizable, and to be honest, they are a little "dainty". I have seen quite a few break from drops of no more then 2 feet. I have yet to see a single URC remote that has suffered the same fate. I am getting a little off topic here though. My place in this business is to help people, not just profit. I have to make a living, yes, but I will also spend the extra time in order to make sure that my customers are satisfied. This approach alone has helped business tremendously. While my heart goes out to those that truly can handle the programming and have been used to doing it for some time, I am afraid there is nothing that I can do to change the policy set forth by URC. All I can say is I wish you luck.

You keep hiding behind this statement but you never explain it.

I just explained some of the issue in my previous post. Let me explain again, even though I've explained it before. Maybe you missed it.

1. CI's have been complaining, rightfully so, that the ebay/fleamarket internet sellers are way underselling their prices. This is a problem because in very general terms, these are two separate markets. CI's offer much more value added services, but are asked to 'compete' with internet pricing. The only way to accomplish this is for the CI to offer the same level of service as the internet reseller. Not only that, many of the internet resellers have wildly varying levels of after purchase support. Some have none at all (usually the ebay sellers). I don't think this is right for the overall market. More on that later.

CI's constantly create bids and give advice on AV electronics equipment, only to get price shopped on the internet when it comes time to sign a contract. As I've said before, we charge MSRP on an MX remote, but we include programming with it as long it's not too custom. Bummer when people ask us to match an internet price.


2. MX series remote sales aren't properly qualified and supported. While some of you here at AVS forums don't want any after sale support except physical replacement since you are hobbyist or skilled, most aren't. It's quite apparent that many purchasers of these remotes have a little harder time than they probably thought they might when they bought them. I think, and would hope, URC manages it's AD's a little better to provide the after sales support should somebody need it, and just as important, qualify a sale beforehand and have a discussion with the purchaser to properly inform them of what they're getting into.
Notice this doesn't create any undue strain to DIYers who don't need this level of support.

Additionally, even the most advanced programmer of remotes may have problems with a remote; a SW bug or something, can't find a IR file, etc. Some think that URC should be the only one providing this support, and sometimes it seems, any support at all. Why not the seller of the remote? I support the products I sell, I don't tell the client to call Fujitsu when their TV acts up. Again, nobody is holding the seller of the remote accountable for issues with the remote.

Yet, I'm asked, as a CI, to 'compete' with them. Well, when they have problems with their systems or remotes, they call my cell phone and I answer. Sounds like a competitive market to me.

....but you assume I know nothing and you know everything. You are the epitome of the word assume in this instance.

That's funny. You're making the assumptions here, and very wide ranging ones at that. Let's pare the dialogue down to AV industry and such... yes, by the statements you've made, I don't think you know much about our industry. Add to that you're angry, I don't know if you can be reasoned with either. At least I'm trying.

You continually attempt to discredit my opinion without providing any factual data. Could that be because you have none?

I've put forth some anecdotal and factual evidence, mixed with some logic and reasoning. I've merely clarified what's already there, a naivete about the situation at hand and our industry displayed by your statements. Notice that there are many people who post that they aren't happy about URC and their policy, but I don't engage in dialogue with them, maybe it's because there's nothing to debate since I understand why they aren't happy about it. Then again, they didn't state that 'this is all about money' and 'CI greed' and other antagonistic statments of the like. As you can see, it's not all about the money. CI's aren't trying to force people to pay more money for their remotes, and they aren't afraid of competition, that's more misinformed or intentionally antagonistic hyperbole. CI's should compete with CI's, and we do. Ebay sellers of remotes aren't CI's, so it's absurd to assume we can compete with them. They can't compete with us either because people seem to give them a free pass when there's problems... they go directly to URC. Must be nice.

As an example, I had a Solar PV system installed this past summer. Last fall when I was getting quotes, one contractor impressed me so much with his attention to detail and follow though I stopped getting quotes and hired him. Was he the cheapest? Don't know. Was he the most expensive? Don't know. Did he do a good job and was I happy with the installation? You betcha. My point is, it's not just about the cost.


Really? Do you think it would be fair if the PV system installer did all that work, and then when it came time to contract you hit him up with a list of parts on his bid with internet pricing well under what he proposed?

That happens, a lot.

I just explained some of the issue in my previous post. Let me explain again, even though I've explained it before. Maybe you missed it.

1. CI's have been complaining, rightfully so, that the ebay/fleamarket internet sellers are way underselling their prices.

2. MX series remote sales aren't properly qualified and supported.
Ok ok ok, uncle. See it works much better when you're discussing and not attacking.

Yes I was angry. Was I justified in being angry, probably not. Overreacted.

When I needed to program my 700 last week and I went to update the software and found out after 4 years of being a good customer who did nothing wrong I was now cut off, I was pissed. Really pissed that a company would do that.

I've calmed down a lot now. A lot of that has to do with the people I've been bitching too. Both at the Forums and URC. Got to give them a lot of credit, and a apology, I was being a real ahole and they kept their cool. Wonder if I would have.

Other reasons for the impending calmness is there are a lot of people out there willing to help. I received the 850 Live Update enabled software anonymously. The way I was bitching I was surprised anyone would do that, I probably would have blown me off. Then contacting an AD and finding out, no I really don't have to pay the $399 MSRP. Then finally getting through to URC Tech Support this morning and getting the 700 Live Update enabled software sent to me with no problem what so ever. I was ready to beg and plead (not argue, that would have gotten me nowhere) but didn't have to.

Yep once I get home and verify that software is Live Update enabled I'm going to have a lot of apologizing to do.

Ya know, maybe a nominal fee or subscription to get the software upgrades might be in order. I'd bitch and moan about that but I'd get over it. Realistically, I bought my remote 4 years ago, what have I done since then to support URC financially that makes me think I deserve to continue to get free software updates? Mind blowing thought eh? I periodically upgrade my PC software and that isn't free. Maybe I'll go support URC by buying that 850 now.

Really? Do you think it would be fair if the PV system installer did all that work, and then when it came time to contract you hit him up with a list of parts on his bid with internet pricing well under what he proposed?

That happens, a lot.Well, yeah, doesn't everybody do that? ;)

Point well taken. But in this case I'm pretty sure I got a better price on the components through him then I could have on my own. Or worst case the same. PV panels are in short supply and have been for over a year now. Demand has gone up and the manufacturers can't keep up. If fact there is a shortage of the silicon wafers used to make them. At least there was last time I checked. In fact I doubt I could have even gotten the panels on my own. This contractor does a lot of volume and has agreements with this particular panel manufacturer and it was not easy for him to get the panels I wanted.

But to your point, I never advocated that, I never would. It's just not right.

What I think is ok is what I did (now before you go saying well of course you think that, just listen). I bought my 700 along with the software, I programmed my 700 all by myself, and I went away. I did not ask an AD to bail me out for free or a minimal charge, I did not ask a CI to bail me out for free or a minimal charge, I did not ask URC to bail me out for free. I got exactly what I wanted, a remote that I could program on my PC and download to the remote. I be happy.

I will admit, the software was not always intuitive, and there was some stumbling at times to figure out how to do something. But if I couldn't figure it out I pretty much always found the answer in the manual. If not I just keep poking away at it till I did.

Afterthought:

I would at this point probably buy from you if you gave me the price I was looking for that I thought was fair knowing that you would not have to do any of the programming and you would not be spending any time supporting me after the sale. I've come a long way eh?

Ok ok ok, uncle. See it works much better when you're discussing and not attacking.

Agreed. You're not saying anything worth attacking now. The 'CI greed' and "it's all about money" stuff raises my ire. I think you were right to be aggravated, maybe even mad. But in the end, after the shock and inconvenience, it got handled as it should, and I'm happy you've still got a good working remote.

Ya know, maybe a nominal fee or subscription to get the software upgrades might be in order. I'd bitch and moan about that but I'd get over it. Realistically, I bought my remote 4 years ago, what have I done since then to support URC financially that makes me think I deserve to continue to get free software updates? Mind blowing thought eh? I periodically upgrade my PC software and that isn't free. Maybe I'll go support URC by buying that 850 now.

This idea has been floated before. Not to dismiss it, but I'd think that money would be paid up front with the purchase price of the remote, and the AD should keep you on file to support you down the road. Then again, I don't know if I'd care either way, whatever works. I think URC is trying to shift some of the support responsibilities to the seller of the remotes, which I think is not only fair, but the right way to go. URC's has their responsibilities, not doubt, but they should be shared.

Just download and installed the software. I be Happy!

And support, that's one thing I don't have to worry about with the AD I deal with. They keep computer records of everything, I can go in there and they can tell me everything I've ever purchased. And as far a being above board, they've got one of the best, if not thee best reputations around.

Oh but, did you see that post over at RC where the guy bought a 3000 and he wants something changed and the AD won't give him the software and says he has to hire the AD @ $100 a hour? That is so wrong and exactly what worried me about this whole thing.

What I think is ok is what I did (now before you go saying well of course you think that, just listen). I bought my 700 along with the software, I programmed my 700 all by myself, and I went away. I did not ask an AD to bail me out for free or a minimal charge, I did not ask a CI to bail me out for free or a minimal charge, I did not ask URC to bail me out for free. I got exactly what I wanted, a remote that I could program on my PC and download to the remote. I be happy.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that. But, many people such as yourself unwittingly search for the best price, and purchase accordingly. They're likely to purchase from the grey marketeers least likely to help you out, or tell you up front that it's going to take several hours to get it tweaked just right (more for larger systems, less for smaller, etc). I don't think that's the best solution for all people. I merely wish that somebody like you would have to call and talk to a human, so they can give you a quicky speech about what you're likely to go through. If you agree or don't care, then fine. It's just the "BUY NOW" button isn't the best way of selling this type of product, even though many in this forum can do just fine.

I will admit, the software was not always intuitive, and there was some stumbling at times to figure out how to do something. But if I couldn't figure it out I pretty much always found the answer in the manual. If not I just keep poking away at it till I did.

That's all good. The only problem I have with this is that the grey marketeer doesn't care, they got their cash and they're done with you. URC cares because they have to field the phone calls. I (and URC) care because I want you to be prepared for this endeavour and enjoy your remote. You're obviously smart enough to accomplish remote programming, but I doubt most people know what they're getting into. Utilizing a good AD, in my view, would help let people know what the configuration process entails before the purchase to properly set expectations.

This just doesn't happen on the commodity exchange called ebay. I'm not against ebay at all, I'm against distro of these products as brand new from ebay without support. I still think people like you should be able to purchase these remotes and program them yourself. The only change will be process and channel, which will address the other problems. The avid DIYers haven't really been the problem, if at all.

I would at this point probably buy from you if you gave me the price I was looking for that I thought was fair knowing that you would not have to do any of the programming and you would not be spending any time supporting me after the sale. I've come a long way eh?

We probably aren't that far apart. I'll sell stuff to cover my ass then add on some profit to pay for my vices. If it's double, then that's what I'll sell it for. Luckily, my core business isn't selling and programming MX remotes, otherwise I might be a tad bit vociferous in my opinions... ;)

There's nothing inherently wrong with that. But, many people such as yourself unwittingly search for the best price, and purchase accordingly. They're likely to purchase from the grey marketeers least likely to help you out, or tell you up front that it's going to take several hours to get it tweaked just right (more for larger systems, less for smaller, etc). I don't think that's the best solution for all people. I merely wish that somebody like you would have to call and talk to a human, so they can give you a quicky speech about what you're likely to go through. If you agree or don't care, then fine. It's just the "BUY NOW" button isn't the best way of selling this type of product, even though many in this forum can do just fine.

That's all good. The only problem I have with this is that the grey marketeer doesn't care, they got their cash and they're done with you. URC cares because they have to field the phone calls. I (and URC) care because I want you to be prepared for this endeavour and enjoy your remote. You're obviously smart enough to accomplish remote programming, but I doubt most people know what they're getting into. Utilizing a good AD, in my view, would help let people know what the configuration process entails before the purchase to properly set expectations.

This just doesn't happen on the commodity exchange called ebay. I'm not against ebay at all, I'm against distro of these products as brand new from ebay without support. I still think people like you should be able to purchase these remotes and program them yourself. The only change will be process and channel, which will address the other problems. The avid DIYers haven't really been the problem, if at all.
Back in 2002 when I was in the market for the 700 I looked at eBay, I found some great deals. A 700 for around $140 from someone I think in Naperville Illinois, so close I figured I might be able to drive down and pick it up. I pulled his eBay info (which then gave a lot more info then now), tried to check him out via all means available, but I was just too leery. That price, less then half retail was just too good to be true. Something was fishy, something had to be wrong. (Looked on eBay for him the other day, no longer an active user and a lot of no product no communication feedback towards his eBay demise.)

So I decided not to go that route and find the best legitimate deal I could. I landed up paying a lot more, almost retail but in light of recent events it looks like it was a wise choice.

I checked out eBay yesterday just for grins, 850 for $189 with a 1 year warranty to boot. Less then half of retail?? Seller had like 6 negatives in the last 6 months so I checked them out. One buyer was complaining that there was no serial number on his 850. The sellers response was not to worry he keeps the serial number on file and supports the 1 year warranty.
Red Flag! Red Flag! Red Flag!

But if you're a naive first time buyer and not aware of all this policy stuff you probably don't realize this to be a Red Flag.

And I knew exactly what I was getting into way before I bought the remote. I do extensive research on everything I buy that costs more then a buck ninety eight, tax included. I had the MX-700 Editor software downloaded and installed on my PC long before I bought. I was playing around with it and becoming familiar with it so I could see if I could do what I wanted to do with this remote. I did not want to spend $300 to $400 on the 700 and then be disappointed of find out I bought another programmable/learning remote that did not meet my expectations.

So I knew, without talking to anyone what it was all about. Now granted most people aren't as anal as me and probably don't take the time to do what I did, they just assume everything is going to be a cakewalk only to get a rude awakening later and then are forced to seek help.

So as I see it now, URC by making the software more difficult to obtain (without a serial number) has made it harder for someone now to do what I did beforehand so that they can find out what they are getting themselves into before they bite off more then they can chew.

So as I see it now, URC by making the software more difficult to obtain (without a serial number) has made it harder for someone now to do what I did beforehand so that they can find out what they are getting themselves into before they bite off more then they can chew.

I think a short conversation with a human would be more effective than freely available SW. It would probably take less time to achieve the same effect as tinkerin with the SW for a few hours. Most of the difficulties with advanced remote programming won't be known until the program is loaded and tested in the remote.

I just don't think it would be as effective as a human, a pro, giving advice. That's what they're there for, right?

I just don't think it would be as effective as a human, a pro, giving advice. That's what they're there for, right?I'm not saying a conversation wouldn't be effective for some, and coming from experts would be beneficial, but there is no way any conversation can convey all the nuances of the software. And I learn more and retain it better if I do it myself, hands on. That pretty much goes for anything.

Even if I had had that conversation I still would have opted to get the software and do it myself, that was my goal. I wanted a remote that I could program on a PC because that approach was easier then the remotes that were around at the time that you could program and create macros, but you had to do it within the confines of the remote itself which was/is more cumbersome. Lot easier to do it on a bigger PC screen using a mouse.

I'm in the same situation as most people reading this thread. I bought my MX-700 remote back in 2002 (i think). I emailed BlueDo (the store I bought it from) and they can't seem to find my order. So now I have to plead my case to URC just to get firmware updates. Sigh. I can guarantee that my next remote will NOT be from URC.

Dave,

It wasn't that bad. I finally got through yesterday morning (eventually they were closed Tuesday but nowhere did they say that, as in the recorded message you get when you call) and I thought I'd have to plead my case but I wasn't asked when/where I bought my 700, I wasn't asked the serial number either, just my email address so they could send me the software. When I got home it was in my inbox, I downloaded it, installed it and it is Live Update enabled.

<Added:>
(800) 901-0800

TiVoCom,

Which number did you call? I tried URC's headquarters number - (914) 835-4484 - but I got put through to voicemail.

Update: they called me back and emailed me the MX-700 Setup EXE file. Live Update works great

I'm not saying a conversation wouldn't be effective for some, and coming from experts would be beneficial, but there is no way any conversation can convey all the nuances of the software.

I'm not saying that all nuances of the SW should be explained, I'm saying that people should be told that it would take a few hours to get up and running, then several hours more with advanced tweaking, in most cases. In your case, you would have said "That's fine, I want to do it myself anyway." No problem. Most people will still want to do it themselves anyway, but at least their expectations were set.

Either way, this is wishful thinking, since I doubt most AD's will do this. If somebody wants to buy a remote for MSRP by hitting the BUY NOW button, then let em... I guess. I don't think these remotes should be sold that way.

TiVoCom,

Which number did you call? I tried URC's headquarters number - (914) 835-4484 - but I got put through to voicemail.If anyone else is interested this was the number I called: (800) 901-0800

I'm not saying that all nuances of the SW should be explained, I'm saying that people should be told that it would take a few hours to get up and running, then several hours more with advanced tweaking, in most cases. In your case, you would have said "That's fine, I want to do it myself anyway." No problem. Most people will still want to do it themselves anyway, but at least their expectations were set..Yep, good point, I don't mind the time, stuff like that is fun.

http://www.shipdog.com

http://www.shipdog.com
So is this one of them Unauthorized Dealers I've been hearing about?

I don't find Shipdog.com listed on URC's site as a online dealer nor any listing for them in New York where their Corproate address is listed as according to Dealtime:

1412 Ave M #2395
Brooklyn, NY 11230

http://www.dealtime.com/xSI-~MRD-309620

Nor do I find them listed with the State of New York in their Corporation and Business Entity Database here:

http://appsext8.dos.state.ny.us/corp_public/corpsearch.entity_search_entry

I have never done business with them. I found them through remotecentral, which has a CNET link to find where remotes are sold. Shipdog showed up and they have the software available for download (search by manufacturer - universal, and select a URC remote) - It turns out it is the software with live update enabled. They don't appear to have the mx-700, but my understanding is that the mx-850 software works fine for the mx-700 (haven't tried it though).

For example - here is a direct link to the mx-850. Notice the link below the picture for downloading the software.

http://www.shipdog.com/product.asp?i=UNIMX850

BTW - I had to do the 5,4, 3.. thing because AVS forum won't let new members post links until after 5 posts.

BTW - I had to do the 5,4, 3.. thing because AVS forum won't let new members post links until after 5 posts.Yeah I figured that.

Wonder if that's legal for a non AD (at this point I'm assuming they are not authorized because I can't find anything that says they are) to distributed the software.

Now that I think about it, I would think not. I recall Eric Johnson saying something about (warning about I think) distributing copyrighted material.

You could also purchase my MX700/MX200 on ebay right now, I am including the current software :)

You could also purchase my MX700/MX200 on ebay right now, I am including the current software :)Yeah I asked Eirc if that was ok (if the software with LU was transferable cuz I'm thinking of getting a 850, or 950), his answer was "Of course". Just wanted to be sure, with all this policy BS going around I don't want to do something that would piss off URC and they cut off my copy of LU software.

Back in 2002 when I was in the market for the 700 I looked at eBay, I found some great deals. A 700 for around $140 from someone I think in Naperville Illinois, so close I figured I might be able to drive down and pick it up. I pulled his eBay info (which then gave a lot more info then now), tried to check him out via all means available, but I was just too leery. That price, less then half retail was just too good to be true. Something was fishy, something had to be wrong. (Looked on eBay for him the other day, no longer an active user and a lot of no product no communication feedback towards his eBay demise.)

So I decided not to go that route and find the best legitimate deal I could. I landed up paying a lot more, almost retail but in light of recent events it looks like it was a wise choice.

I checked out eBay yesterday just for grins, 850 for $189 with a 1 year warranty to boot. Less then half of retail?? Seller had like 6 negatives in the last 6 months so I checked them out. One buyer was complaining that there was no serial number on his 850. The sellers response was not to worry he keeps the serial number on file and supports the 1 year warranty.
Red Flag! Red Flag! Red Flag!

But if you're a naive first time buyer and not aware of all this policy stuff you probably don't realize this to be a Red Flag.

And I knew exactly what I was getting into way before I bought the remote. I do extensive research on everything I buy that costs more then a buck ninety eight, tax included. I had the MX-700 Editor software downloaded and installed on my PC long before I bought. I was playing around with it and becoming familiar with it so I could see if I could do what I wanted to do with this remote. I did not want to spend $300 to $400 on the 700 and then be disappointed of find out I bought another programmable/learning remote that did not meet my expectations.

So I knew, without talking to anyone what it was all about. Now granted most people aren't as anal as me and probably don't take the time to do what I did, they just assume everything is going to be a cakewalk only to get a rude awakening later and then are forced to seek help.

So as I see it now, URC by making the software more difficult to obtain (without a serial number) has made it harder for someone now to do what I did beforehand so that they can find out what they are getting themselves into before they bite off more then they can chew.

I still don't understand why people made this software live update as a big issue. I bought mx700 from ebay a couple years back and don't regret at all. To me software live update is almost useless, I either use "learn" or Discret hex Prono code. I don't remember if I ever used the code database.

This is my first post here, ever, since this seems so ridiculous. the above argument point only scare an average Joe or an AOL user, which should not be the case with MX product.

I still don't understand why people made this software live update as a big issue.
I think it's 3 reasons for most people: 1) the principle of having full support for something you paid for, 2) having the latest/greatest software and 3) remotes break, get lost, people buy used or open box that doesn't have a remote which means learning is useless.

I just picked up a MX-850 used a week ago. I bought it because I want to consolidated remotes and I fell into category 3 above (open box receiver with no remote). Downloaded the consumer version of their software through the website and had some of databases I needed but some where still missing. Luckily I work for a dealer so I was able to get the live update version through them and there is a big difference in the IR databases between the 2 versions. The latest updates had a new general code list that worked for my receiver plus it had my specific DVD player code list which the consumer version did not. Now remember the difference is between downloading the consumer version a week ago vs the dealer version with the latest live update patch.

So anyone that downloads from the website is missing alot of codes, that is not fair to the end user. In reality though the amount of people this screws is really minimal. Those that want to program themselves are vastly outnumbered by those who just pay a dealer to do it for them, and my case above is probably very rare.

Now reading some of the above posts, if URC is giving the live update version to those that call and request it, then it's even less of an issue since it means those that can program themselves can still get it.

I still don't understand why people made this software live update as a big issue. I bought mx700 from ebay a couple years back and don't regret at all. To me software live update is almost useless, I either use "learn" or Discret hex Prono code. I don't remember if I ever used the code database.

This is my first post here, ever, since this seems so ridiculous. the above argument point only scare an average Joe or an AOL user, which should not be the case with MX product.The IR DB may not be a big deal but it may, firmware for the remote is. Enhancements to the Editor and additional functionality is also a big deal to some. To you it may not be, to others it may, you have to let them make the choice but in order to do that they have to know the story up front, not learn about it after they make the purchase and find out it's too late.

And you're also assuming no one ever loses a remote and the remote will always work forever even after that coffee, beer, or wine was spilled on it. And everybody backs up their configuration and never screws it up and never ever needs the remote again.

And remotes don't always have discrete On/Off or input changing codes (I know this first hand with two Samsung HDTV's) etc.

I could go on and on but there's no point to it, there's plenty of reason to have an up to date IR DB. If you don't need/use it don't assume others don't.

Just a quick note of confirmation. The MX850 software does indeed work on the MX700 because I tried it with mine last night.

Also, I got the Onkyo 504 receiver this weekend and tried learning the vol up and down only to find when the MX700 sent it to the receiver I can not press and hold the vol button because it only increments the volume by 1, so I had to press multiple to get it to go up or down.

I did the live update on the MX850 software, found the receiver listed, and those codes worked perfectly. So I can now hold down the volume, and as a bonus I also got discrete pwr on and off codes.

MovingTarget,
Thanx a million, I have the 800 and have also downloaded the 850 software. i havent tried it yet on my 800 but your experience amped me up. Im looking at the onkyo 604 and hope the 603 software works. I am still waiting for the optoma h72 to show up on the update though. None of the optoma downloads work. again, great report.

the move they are trying to make is this if they can get rid of the grey market they can keep the procved value of their remotes. so if ou have a market where they can set the price and it wount go down to others selling the producr for less. like the markup on the mx3000 is around $400 if they can stop people from selling at a disc then the prive and procived value will stay high and not go down over time.

Discrete power on/off codes are a MAJOR reason to need the full version of the MX-Editor with Live Update enabled. The no-live-update version currently on URC's site is only current as of July 2006. There's been a lot of gear introduced since then and the URC code database has been updated at least three times since then.

Sorry, but there IS a need to have the Live Update software. Sure, there are workarounds. But customers PAID for that software feature when they purchased the remote (the remote is useless without software). Regardless where they purchased the remote, they are STILL URC customers. The only exception would be a counterfeit remote.

Mark

Like everyone else I have the MX-850 full version software now, but would prefer to find a copy of the MX-800 full version with live update as I have an MX-800.

If anyone is willing to send me a copy please PM me. yousendit dot c0m is a great way to send it to yourself and then anyone who could use it.

I have no issues with using the software intended for the device I paid for, no matter how I get it.

Dennis

see below

The fact is that URC is making headway in achieving a stated goal, to combat grey market sales.

Please clarify something for me. Where are the grey market dealers getting their stock? Are they hijacking the delivery trucks? Breaking into the factory at night?

Please clarify something for me. Where are the grey market dealers getting their stock? Are they hijacking the delivery trucks? Breaking into the factory at night?

I'd like to know that too; I hardly believe that Amazon and Newegg are purchasing from the back of truck.

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Reminder from the forums rules...

You agree to not...

f. upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any Content that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights ("Rights") of any party. Again, this is not the place to talk about illegal downloads or how to obtain them. There are several forums on the Internet dedicated for discussing this type of material. This is not one of them.;


Thank you

This policy is just baffling, and yes I have read the thread.

I can understand no warranty unless sold through an authorized dealer. Although I don't understand how Amazon, and other high profile resellers don't count as authorized dealers. What is URC saying, that Amazon is stealing their remotes from a warehouse in the middle of the night? Come on, the responsibility for controlling distribution falls squarely on URC. If they don't want somebody to sell their product then don't supply them with it.

As for the secondary market it's pretty lame to deny them the software. I wouldn't expect any kind of support from URC unless the remote is still under warranty, but the least they could do is make the software available. And no, I don't consider their offer of neutered software acceptable. I certainly wouldn't expect them to help me program the remote or provide any other kind of support.

All this will do is drive the price of their remotes even lower on the secondary and gray market. I'm still going to buy a MX-850, but I absolutely will not buy one retail from an authorized seller. Not because of price, at this point I simply will not support a company with policies like this. I managed to find a copy of the MX-850 software that has live update enable. So I'm ok with buying that remote now, but I won't give my money to URC. I'll buy second hand.

While I'm in 100% agreement that this new "policy" is total BS, I just got off the phone with customer service and they were very good to deal with. I received the new software within minutes and am back in business. FWIW, I did purchase my remote online from an authorized dealer and when I registered it I got the "unupgradeable" version.

I've seen several other companies go a similar route as URC and they either regretted it and reversed the policy or went out of business. We'll see what route URC chooses. The way I see it, URC has shot themselves in the foot. They have failed to realize that most of the remotes sold are to average guys like us...not the CI's. Arrogance and greed never help a company excel. :rolleyes:

I'd like to know that too; I hardly believe that Amazon and Newegg are purchasing from the back of truck.

Amazon should be considered like ebay: they don't sell the remotes, they merely link you to the actual sellers. As for NewEgg, I don't know. Instead of trying to figure out who is and what games are being played upon you, why don't you just buy from authorized dealers?

I've seen several other companies go a similar route as URC and they either regretted it and reversed the policy or went out of business.

Like who? Anybody in the consumer electronics industry?

I can't think of anyone in the electronics industry off the top of my head.

Clearly from all the negative responses posted here and on other forums, URC has stepped on it and I'm confident they are aware of the implications of their short sightedness.

Amazon should be considered like ebay: they don't sell the remotes, they merely link you to the actual sellers. As for NewEgg, I don't know. Instead of trying to figure out who is and what games are being played upon you, why don't you just buy from authorized dealers?

Not entirely true; some items are actually sold by Amazon.com, while others are through other retailers. It it very easy to tell which is which.

Amazon should be considered like ebay: they don't sell the remotes, they merely link you to the actual sellers. As for NewEgg, I don't know. Instead of trying to figure out who is and what games are being played upon you, why don't you just buy from authorized dealers?

It shouldn't matter where you buy the product from. The product is what it is regardless of what store sells it to you. URC is getting their money either way and the consumer is then able to get a fair market price for the product. This "authorized" dealer BS is just another way to justify higher prices.


The origin of the games is coming from the manufacturer. The manufacturer should honor the support and warranty regardless of where the product was bought. The way many of us see it is that this is a loop hole for the manufacturer to avoid supporting their product.......because support and warranty issues cost the company money in the long run. And after all......isn't that what this is all about? :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Grimdeath] Not entirely true; some items are actually sold by Amazon.com, while others are through other retailers. It it very easy to tell which is which. [/QUOTE

Yes, Amazon sells many items, like books and CD's. They don't sell any URC remotes.

It shouldn't matter where you buy the product from. The product is what it is regardless of what store sells it to you. URC is getting their money either way and the consumer is then able to get a fair market price for the product. This "authorized" dealer BS is just another way to justify higher prices.


This is a prevalent mindset. The funny thing is that this logic wouldn't hold true if you bought the remotes from the back of a car at a flea market. Somehow, since it's from an online vendor, it has the caste of validity.

Additionally bregar, you think that 'fair market' is the price that the lowest low baller on ebay offers, and it seems that all other vendors should offer the product at this price, including AD's that offer higher levels of support and custom CI's.

It's clear to me that you can't see the difference in the markets.

Not entirely true; some items are actually sold by Amazon.com, while others are through other retailers. It it very easy to tell which is which.

Yes, Amazon sells many items, like books and CD's. They don't sell any URC remotes.


I really hate responding to you but I can't stand when people don't even bother to see if what they are saying is based on fact.

Amazon does offer Universal Remotes direct(FROM AMAZON.COM):
Amazon Order Options for MX-700 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000167NYY/ref=dp_olp_2/002-4773704-7769623)

You can order directly from Amazon or Ritz Camera from the Amazon site. Not quite the equivilant of the back of a truck on the side of the road. What URC did is not illeagal, but it was stupid, and it does hurt URC because it has allianated a large group of do-it your-selfers who don't want to pay some one like you to come set up there remote control.

I purchased my remote from Newegg. I was very glad when someone recently posted a link to the unlocked software. I was a big fan of URC until this new policy. I no longer recommend them to my friends and family because of this policy, and apparently URC is completely fine with that.

Amazon should be considered like ebay: they don't sell the remotes, they merely link you to the actual sellers. As for NewEgg, I don't know. Instead of trying to figure out who is and what games are being played upon you, why don't you just buy from authorized dealers?

All of us are well aware of the issue, but we're in the minority. What about the casual shopper that hears about the remote and buys it from the first place they find? How are they supposed to know about all this "authorized dealer" crap? They go to a major website, buy the product in new condition, and then come to find out that they have no warranty, no software, and no support. That's just nuts.

I really hate responding to you but I can't stand when people don't even bother to see if what they are saying is based on fact.

Amazon does offer Universal Remotes direct(FROM AMAZON.COM):
Amazon Order Options for MX-700 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000167NYY/ref=dp_olp_2/002-4773704-7769623)

You can order directly from Amazon or Ritz Camera from the Amazon site.

Then you shouldn't reply because when you click on the link you supplied, Amazon lists all of the "Sellers." Amazon doesn't sell any remotes, the "Sellers" in your link do. Check your facts or don't reply to my posts. :o

What URC did is not illeagal, but it was stupid, and it does hurt URC because it has allianated a large group of do-it your-selfers who don't want to pay some one like you to come set up there remote control.

You don't have to, nor am I trying to force you to. But, you can buy from an AD, for a similar price as the grey marketeers. But don't compare what I offer to what the ebay (or Amazon sellers) offer. That mistake is made way too often.

Then you shouldn't reply because when you click on the link you supplied, Amazon lists all of the "Sellers." Amazon doesn't sell any remotes, the "Sellers" in your link do. Check your facts or don't reply to my posts. :o


Uh, if you were to read the list you would see "Amazon" as a seller and "Fullfilled by Amazon" in the description.

Uh, if you were to read the list you would see "Amazon" as a seller and "Fullfilled by Amazon" in the description.

Thank you, now I don't have to respond to the lil papa ;)

Uh, if you were to read the list you would see "Amazon" as a seller and "Fullfilled by Amazon" in the description.

I did read it. 9 out of the 10 sellers aren't Amazon.

So, you're 10% correct, and I'm only 90% correct. Or are you?

"Amazon also handles all customer service and product returns for "Fulfilled by Amazon" items."

If they were the vender of the product, why would they make such a clarification statement?

. But don't compare what I offer to what the ebay (or Amazon sellers) offer. That mistake is made way too often.

Exactly what do you offer that makes it a bad idea to buy from someone else? :rolleyes:

This is a prevalent mindset. The funny thing is that this logic wouldn't hold true if you bought the remotes from the back of a car at a flea market. Somehow, since it's from an online vendor, it has the caste of validity.

Additionally bregar, you think that 'fair market' is the price that the lowest low baller on ebay offers, and it seems that all other vendors should offer the product at this price, including AD's that offer higher levels of support and custom CI's.

It's clear to me that you can't see the difference in the markets.

What difference does it make as to who you buy it from. It is supposed to be the same product regardless of the vendor....right?

Fair market price is the price that the market will bear. If you happen to be higher then the other retailers, then you will sell less. If the opposite is true and you have a low price, you will sell more than you would have if you have the highest price. It is simple economics.

How much friggin support do you provide for a remote? :rolleyes:

Better yet, ask the members of this forum how much support the received or needed on their remotes.
95% of the people that bought these remotes were savvy enough to program them on their own and never looked back at the vendor they bought their remotes from. The other 5% either got in over their heads with the programming (which then you let them know that for an additional fee you'll program it for them) or had some sort of mechanical problem.

Look guys, the URC policy has generated thousands of posts both here and at Remote Central. If you didn't do YOUR homework before buying then you're screwed. Get over it. URC IS NOT going to change their policy. They DO NOT care if you like them or not! So quit your bitchin. It isn't going to change anything.

Exactly what do you offer that makes it a bad idea to buy from someone else? :rolleyes:

Me!

What difference does it make as to who you buy it from. It is supposed to be the same product regardless of the vendor....right?

It's the same part. It's not the same product. If I have to explain the difference between what an ebay/Amazon vendor offers, an online AD offers (a decent one), and what a CI offers, then you'll likely never understand.

Fair market price is the price that the market will bear. If you happen to be higher then the other retailers, then you will sell less. If the opposite is true and you have a low price, you will sell more than you would have if you have the highest price. It is simple economics.

Yes, I get all that consumerific free market stuff and have drank that koolaid. The difference is that I should be competing with other CI's, and AD's should be competing with AD's. And, well, grey marketers should be shut out. But, somehow I'm expected to compete with them. Don't you find that a little out of whack?

Better yet, ask the members of this forum how much support the received or needed on their remotes.
95% of the people that bought these remotes were savvy enough to program them on their own and never looked back at the vendor they bought their remotes from. The other 5% either got in over their heads with the programming (which then you let them know that for an additional fee you'll program it for them) or had some sort of mechanical problem.[/QUOTE]

I don't need to ask, all I have to do is peruse these forums to realize that many hobbyists here ask very simple questions and obviously aren't as saavy as you think you are. Most people do get their remotes programmed, but it's not a quickie out of the box. Manufacturers realize this and compartmentalize their tech support to deal with all the simple questions.

95% is wishful thinking.

:rolleyes:

It's the same part. It's not the same product. If I have to explain the difference between what an ebay/Amazon vendor offers, an online AD offers (a decent one), and what a CI offers, then you'll likely never understand.


The hardware is identical, but what differs if what you get as part of a total package. Some of the eBay dealers don't give you the software with the remote, but some do, so one can't generalize. Even some ADs won't give you the software, even big ones (Magnolia is rumored to remove the programming cable from the box as well as not supplying the software), so you can't generalize there either.

Most CIs offer programming services for these remotes that vary in quality from excellent to abysmally poor. You pay your money and take your chances. I myself find the software easy to use and would expect that almost anyone with a technical background would also have no trouble programming them.

I agree.

I think bigpapa is just trying to justify charging what he charges (which he knows is high) for his remotes.

I agree.

I think bigpapa is just trying to justify charging what he charges (which he knows is high) for his remotes.

You can by a home PC with tech support for less money than a URC at AD prices.
The mark-up on these products are incredible; you can buy NIB on ebay for $300+ less than AD prices and you know they are still making a profit on the sale.
There is nothing an AD (or bigPapa) could offer me for $300 more, let alone $5.
In addition, there are no technical issues that community members here and on remotecentral.com could/would not answer for anyone in need of help (these remotes really are not complicated).
An AD is nothing more than a broker of an unnecessary service (and, if you're like me, why pay the broker for something you can do yourself).

I don't care how high or how low BigPapa charges. If someone finds his services worthwhile thats just fine.

What I don't understand is what is his beef if URC makes the software available like they used to and why he doesn't supprt it.

I have a MX500 that I programmed myself - it took some time and I enjoyed every minute doing it. I am in the market for a replacement remote and an additional new one. As much as I prefer URC over Harmony it looks like I may end going with Harmony.

Increduously, URC loves ADs and CIs and BigPapas - perhaps they are making more money this way. Final chapter has not been written. We will see.

I don't care how high or how low BigPapa charges. If someone finds his services worthwhile thats just fine.

I only care because they want to force you to use him/them. If there are people who do use them, cater to them (this pool of "challenged" individuals is unlikely to change). This pool is probably very small and the ADs have nothing to offer the greater, more knowledgable population to get their sales from them. Well, apparently they've gotten sick of it enough to force URC to change its policy to only supply the software through the AD's. They know they have nothing/can never offer you anything more; however, they can extort it from you now.

I think bigpapa is just trying to justify charging what he charges (which he knows is high) for his remotes.

How much do I charge for programming remotes?

That's a rhetorical question because it's quite apparent that your opinion is already made up; CI's are expensive.

I only care because they want to force you to use him/them....

That is a statement borne of ignorance. If you think this policy was about forcing consumers to use AD or CI's, or something as simplistic as price fixing, then you can't be reasoned with. Likely, you're merely looking for flame war to start just like that last guy I replied to. What is it with you guys who just can't give no respect? Is it because you have none for yourself?

How much do I charge for programming remotes?

That's a rhetorical question because it's quite apparent that your opinion is already made up; CI's are expensive.


I wasn't asking.

If you are a dumb ass Joe Six Pack that can't figure out how to get the flashing "12:00" off of your VCR, then buy from a custom installer who will, most likely, rape you on the price.

If you are a tech-savy individual that lives to "do it yourself" but are fearful of what stupid move URC might make in the future, then buy from an authorized dealer offering the lowest price AND includes the Live Update version of the software.

If you are a tech-savy individual that lives to "do it yourself" and couldn't care less what happens with URC down the road, then buy from an eBay seller that offers the lowest price AND includes the Live Update version of the software.

Mark

If you are a dumb ass Joe Six Pack that can't figure out how to get the flashing "12:00" off of your VCR, then buy from a custom installer who will, most likely, rape you on the price.

Joe, if you feel the pull to take advice from somebody so negatively biased against a group of people and an industry that they know little about, then programming a VCR is the least of your worries.

Joe, if you feel the pull to take advice from somebody so negatively biased against a group of people and an industry that they know little about, then programming a VCR is the least of your worries.
You're blowing his statement way out of proportion as he's just stating a fact: custom installers do tend to charge too much for a service that's relatively easy to perform if you're at all technically inclined, which I suspect many people who post to AVS forums are. If you're mechanically inclined and can change your car's oil for the price of the oil and a filter, would you take the car to a dealer and pay $200 for the same service? Probably not.

You're blowing his statement way out of proportion as he's just stating a fact: custom installers do tend to charge too much for a service ....

That's totally subjective. Many can program remotes, but not all can or with the same level of efficiency, but that's a different that saying something as absolute as 'custom installers do tend to charge too much.' I think anybody who says that and really believes it should share what they do for a living and how much they make so we can all assess whether they charge too much. Makes for interesting discussion, no?

If you're mechanically inclined and can change your car's oil for the price of the oil and a filter, would you take the car to a dealer and pay $200 for the same service? Probably not.

That's wayyyyyy... wayyyy out of proportion. I've never heard of a $200 oil change, even with the overpriced filter markup. In fact, even without the filter markup, programming of remotes is cheaper than oil changes when you look at time involved, since an oil change actually takes less than 20 minutes.

That's wayyyyyy... wayyyy out of proportion. I've never heard of a $200 oil change, even with the overpriced filter markup. In fact, even without the filter markup, programming of remotes is cheaper than oil changes when you look at time involved, since an oil change actually takes less than 20 minutes.
That's what my dealer charges (and why he doesn't do my oil changes.)

I was at my local AV store a couple of weeks ago getting my sub repaired. A customer was asking about remotes and basically the required professional programming would cost more than the remote itself. I don't have a problem if customers don't know how to program remotes and willing to pay for the service, but requiring programming is silly. People are probably more tech savvy today and some of us like to customize and do the coding ourselves even if the service was free.

I agree. There's lots of really smart people out there these days to whom programming a remote is child's play. After all, some of these people have written complete operating systems (Linux), photo editing packages (The Gimp), HTPC software (MythTV), and many others.

I agree. There's lots of really smart people out there these days to whom programming a remote is child's play. After all, some of these people have written complete operating systems (Linux), photo editing packages (The Gimp), HTPC software (MythTV), and many others.



And then there are some really really smart people out there and there VCR's are still flashing: 12:00-12:00-12:00-12:00-12:00! ;)

I just couldn't resist! :D


...Glenn :)

And there are some who know the difference between "there" and "their".

I just couldn't resist! :D

And there are some who know the difference between "there" and "their".

I just couldn't resist! :D



Touche! :D

I have MX-850 and searched RC with no luck.

Where can I get the live update enabled software from? Can someone e-mail me or PM me? Thank you.

I have MX-850 and searched RC with no luck.

Where can I get the live update enabled software from? Can someone e-mail me or PM me? Thank you.

Live Update is not yet available. See the response from URC guys:


"We appreciate you contacting Universal Remote Control, Inc and your continued patronage. We are currently improving our website and how we provide the ‘Live Update’ to our clients so it is disabled until further notice........."

You can ask the dealer for updates, but I'm OK with waiting for the IRDB to be updated via the live update. But then again, all my boxes are already in the IRDB.

Well, this is a huge disappointment. I've been searching for a new remote this week after having a horrific experience with the Harmony 880 software (see my posts on that thread for details).

I was seriously considering the MX-700, but there's just no way I'm going to drive into Tampa and pay full retail so that I get the correct software. Their policy regarding e-tailers is idioc. I also find it insulting they they assume most of us are too dumb to program a remote.

I've been in IT for > 30 years and have done my fair share of programming on many platforms & languages - I think I'll somehow manage to figure out how to 'program' (and program is a real stretch of the word here - configure is technically more accurate) a stupid remote control - geez :rolleyes:

I ordered a new MX-700 from surfremotecontrol.com this week, upgrading from my great MX-500 to make it easier in programming discrete codes and just adding to ease of changing the LCD layout, adding pages, etc. Programming the MX-500 was actually fun, but once my macro needs began to include using some codes which would require a JP1 setup (or similar), going to the MX-700 seemed the best way to go for me.

I have the software and manual from them already, even before the remote physically gets here - it's somewhat fun, actually. I have no investment in this company, outside of being a new customer, but they've seemed like helpful folks from their emails, thus far.

On this whole Authorized Dealer / upgradeable software from manufacturer / Custom Installer etc. thing, it's apparent that URC has decided to more stringently market the MX-700 (and some other models) differently than some people desire. They are keeping the "Professional" models distinct from "Consumer" ones, because that apparently serves different channels as they see best.

Since there's obviously a services market involved here and it appears that URC is saying up-front what their support policy is for each of their products based upon the channel in which they are meant to be available, I don't see the big issue beyond a transition need for existing owners of MX-700 units who may desperately need a software upgrade for new codes/firmware to resolve issues that can be identified as fixed or updated.

URC is apparently attempting to protect their "Professional" product line branding and any profits related to those advanced offerings, it seems - against erosion of such in the grey market by distributors or previously unscrupulous dealers, one would imagine. Against channels which they cannot otherwise easily control who manage to get their hands on the "Professional" products. Many I/T hardware and software vendors have done similar (and even more drastic) things with their support agreements, and this is just one way for a manufacturer to handle the situation.

What I have ordered now seems like it will support my needs well for years, but if it required a CI from the get-go, that would have been part of my purchasing decision. As it is, I am happy to give my business to an Authorized Dealer, with all that implies. Am I missing something in the debate, here?

- ooofest

I have read this thread extensively and based on the infoprmation here I may have no other options. I fear I have to toss my MX-700 and replace it with a remote from a company that doesn't rear end their customers.

I have just recently upgraded several components and I need to make some mods to my MX. However, the pc I installed the original software on is now gone. I'm a software engineer by trade and am pretty savvy with this stuff. I don't need no stinking installer to program a silly remote for 100 bux an hour. And the software does not seem to be available anywhere. Hell at least with the pronto I could just grab the latest software from the web site. Or find it on a bazillion other web sites.

I suppose I could call UTC tech support and tell them that I don't remember where I got the remote, it was actually a gift from my wife and she can't remember. It may or may not have been through a licensed dealer. This is really a shame. I actually like this remote.

Any advice for just another screwed consumer?

As it is, I am happy to give my business to an Authorized Dealer, with all that implies. Am I missing something in the debate, here?
- ooofest

Uhh, yeah !

This whole Authorized Dealer bit is the modern version of the old (and despised by consumers) 'Fair Trade' practices some electronics manufacturers adhered to in the 60's & 70's. It's an attempt to artifically manipulate the free market to protect the profits of an anointed set of sellers. What these guys are doing is particularly lothsome as they are foisting their apparent inability to control their distribution channels on the customer. If they don't want someone distributing their product, then they should not be supplying them. If one of their 'chosen' dealers is dumping stock, then they should be addressing the issue with the dealer, not hanging the customers out to dry. It's a simple matter of tracking the serial #'s, which any legit manufacturer should automatically be doing.

Net is - why force folks to buy & pay more at an 'Authorized Dealer' if (as is the case for me) they don't really need/want the implied 'services' purportedly being provided ? Many people do not need their advice or configuration services (they are not really 'programming' remotes). Why should I be forced to pay for something I'd rather do myself !

Personally, I'm tired of this sort of corporate manipulation and on principal, will not give folks like this my money. Fortunately there are many other similar competing products to select from - which is what I intend to do. :) You elected to go the Authorized Dealer route and if that works for you - great !! - it's all about the free market & having the ability to chose for yourself.

Any advice for just another screwed consumer?

Call URC directly, on the phone. Don't send them an email.

Net is - why force folks to buy & pay more at an 'Authorized Dealer' if (as is the case for me) they don't really need/want the implied 'services' purportedly being provided ?

I peruse these forums to see the same old mis-perceptions keep cropping up. Forcing consumers to pay more is not what's happening at all, if you'd care to actually study the sitiation from both sides. Many AD's actually are competitive with non-AD's, almost to the point of being a non-issue. The difference is that non-AD's don't adhere to MAP policy, whereas AD's do.

If you call or email some of the better AD's for their best price, it will be comparable to most of the low bid internet stuff.

Or, the conspiracy theorists amongst you can continue to speculate about the evil corporation that is URC and their attempts to screw the noble consumer.

Forcing consumers to pay more ....................

My bad, but that's only part of the issue (from my perspective).

The other and overriding concern (to me) is - they implemented this policy and backleveled existing customers ! This leads me to believe they simply cannot be trusted, who's to say they won't decide they no longer like XYZ as an AD and pull the same stunt on folks who own units from there ? So (for me), I consider them to not be totally trustworthy and honest and chose to not do business with them for that reason. I tend to keep my electronics for rather long periods of time and so, place a lot of value on selecting products I believe will stand the test of time backed by companies that will not pull the rug out from under me arbitrarily post purchase.

I do not believe them to be "evil" as you state above - self serving, stupid & greedy perhaps, but not evil.

If they had elected to implement the policy on a go forward basis (i.e. any product purchased after xx/xx/xx will not get the software), then I would assign less 'risk' to this product/company & it would likely still be in the running.

BTW - statements like this only serve to reinforce the attitude amongst many of us that AD's like yourself only care about grabbing as much business as they can, with no regard for wether it's actually been 'earned'.
Or, the conspiracy theorists amongst you can continue to speculate about the evil corporation that is URC and their attempts to screw the noble consumer.
There's plenty to go around and the few who will elect NOT to buy thru a AD won't leave you starving on the street !

I have read this thread extensively and based on the [snip]

I suppose I could call UTC tech support and tell them that I don't remember where I got the remote, it was actually a gift from my wife and she can't remember. It may or may not have been through a licensed dealer. This is really a shame. I actually like this remote.

Any advice for just another screwed consumer?


did you try putting your SN into their website? It should let you download the software.

did you try putting your SN into their website? It should let you download the software.

Do you have a link to the location on their website? I scoured it the other day and couldn't find bubkiss.

Chris

Do you have a link to the location on their website? I scoured it the other day and couldn't find bubkiss.

Chris

Never Mind. Found it: http://www.universalremote.com/pro/registration.php

Must not have looked very hard :(

This whole Authorized Dealer bit is the modern version of the old (and despised by consumers) 'Fair Trade' practices some electronics manufacturers adhered to in the 60's & 70's. It's an attempt to artifically manipulate the free market to protect the profits of an anointed set of sellers.

It sounds like a means to protect their "Professional" product line brand, to me. Ensure integrity of support, service and advertised price in the market. This does not appear like a unique throwback to the 60s, but a standard means to ensure this product line goes through specific and preferred channels vs. the channels which carry their "Consumer" product line.


What these guys are doing is particularly lothsome as they are foisting their apparent inability to control their distribution channels on the customer. If they don't want someone distributing their product, then they should not be supplying them. If one of their 'chosen' dealers is dumping stock, then they should be addressing the issue with the dealer, not hanging the customers out to dry. It's a simple matter of tracking the serial #'s, which any legit manufacturer should automatically be doing.

Perhaps you know much about distribution channels, service providers and resellers and this business (or in those with similar models), but I've never heard that such policing was easy for anyone to implement or maintain. It can also be incredibly costly just to attempt such detailed accounting and auditing - you pay others to do that for you, as part of the contract. Knowing where the leaks are can be tough. And, you don't always have much of a say with the leakers, especially if they are otherwise your best provider for your overall distribution needs. I truly don't believe this is as cut and dry as you feel it should be to control.


Net is - why force folks to buy & pay more at an 'Authorized Dealer' if (as is the case for me) they don't really need/want the implied 'services' purportedly being provided ?

At least this point is easy and previously addressed in this same topic: these products were intended for a different market/channel than do-it-yourself Consumer, apparently. People in this forum tend to be more savvy with such things, or at least care to be so. That's not the majority view. Otherwise, the Professional URC line would likely offer a programming interface similar to what Logitech provides for their upscale, consumer-oriented Harmony products, I suspect. Instead, my MX-700 has a rather techie, somewhat buggy and not entirely friendly program to configure it as I desire - not terribly catchy, foolproof or necessarily meant to guide the casual user along, I'd offer. However, I have an I/T background, so it's just another device programmer to me.


Many people do not need their advice or configuration services (they are not really 'programming' remotes). Why should I be forced to pay for something I'd rather do myself !

I got a highly competitive price from surfremotecontrol.com recently - I didn't feel forced to pay for anything but my researched choice, in this case.

I have not needed further advice or updates for programming yet, but at least I have a support channel for such things.

My whole-house humidifier was an installer-only model I bought on eBay which I *knew* required professional installation to obtain full manufacturer support. It took some forum scrounging and consulting with HVAC experts to get it operating correctly. I knowingly took on those Support risks and accepted the consequences, saving a few bucks from bringing in a contractor, essentially - for other items, I've hired professionals to ensure it was done correctly and supported.

I also am of the opinion that if URC had not previously offered this (or a similar) blurb on their website previously:


http://universalremote.com/pro/

. . .
All of the devices we advertise here in the Professional section of this website are designed to be programmed and installed by experienced custom installation professionals. Our remotes are powerful and quite advanced, and in the hands of a trained programmer they can be configured to exploit all of the rich features that provide maximum consumer benefits. While it may be possible for an advanced hobbyist to derive satisfactory results, it is our strong conviction, based upon extended experience, that our products will not deliver their maximum potential unless they are professionally programmed.

We do advertise a number of advanced products designed and engineered for consumers to quickly setup on their own. These products are listed in the Consumer section of our website.

. . .

If you are a Consumer or End-user of Professional Products
Please contact your place of purchase to obtain programming support, software and manuals. If your dealer is unable to help you, you may download the appropriate programming software and manual here. Note: that you will be required to register your serial number and place of purchase.
. . .


. . . then pre-existing owners of MX-700 (and above) units who purchased independent of Authorized Dealers, Custom Installers/Contractors, etc. should have a formal means to ask for latest software from URC when they need a new device code or bugfix that the latest package will actually help resolve. And, it turns out that URC has a web form apparently for that purpose. I'd be curious to know their criteria for accepting such applications, admittedly.

I have worked for businesses which had extremely similar breakdowns of "consumer"-oriented products vs. service-installer ones. The latter were definitely more flexible and powerful in many cases, and some savvy consumers could have managed without many issues, but our support was not geared to anyone except our authorized service, sales and similar contacts. This is not at all uncommon in many, many industries.


Personally, I'm tired of this sort of corporate manipulation and on principal, will not give folks like this my money. Fortunately there are many other similar competing products to select from - which is what I intend to do. :) You elected to go the Authorized Dealer route and if that works for you - great !! - it's all about the free market & having the ability to chose for yourself.

Sure thing. But, lets always remember that "free" markets aren't actually free-for-alls, in many ways. They are still run by various rules - some managed by governments, others dictated by participants, etc. What we, as consumers, eventually end up choosing to obtain would seem based on what we desire for the money value at times, but I also support brands backed by companies/individuals who tend to be more in line with my pertinent personal philosophies than others, those who have given me what I wanted in a consistent fashion, etc. How they navigated market realities in order to get their products out the door has only been a consideration when I was knowingly buying into contractor-designated, service-provider-only, grey-market, etc. products. In such cases, I knew there was some form of risk involved.

Regardless, in any market, the product line will probably succeed by a combination of marketing, customer perception, availability, capabilities, pricing and even politics, among other things. So, if you find a remote control that meets your needs elsewhere from URC products, I support that choice, too. But . . .

. . . I really can't agree with your harsh perspective of this simple business clarification (and related service policy) by URC of how to obtain proper support for their Professional product line. If that's your primary reason for looking elsewhere, it might be worth a reconsideration of your current perspectives on the matter. The most harsh issue I see here is possibly leaving prior consumers flapping in the breeze when they absolutely *need* a new update for their software - but again, there's apparently a means for helping overcome that issue on an individual case basis with URC, directly.

Profits and such for their products . . . you pay for what you want. This website formalization of their "Professional" line support policy has rippled down the channels by now, and the only folks being newly caught are those buying from unauthorized resellers of these products - but, even that's being tempered, hopefully. Note that the Amazon page for the MX-700 has clear statements in many of the product reviews about Amazon not being an AD for URC Professional line products. Yet, as a viable and visible alternative, it appears that surfremotecontrol.com is linked through the same page by Amazon, itself.

- ooofest

Perhaps you know much about distribution channels, service providers and resellers and this business (or in those with similar models), but I've never heard that such policing was easy for anyone to implement or maintain. It can also be incredibly costly just to attempt such detailed accounting and auditing - you pay others to do that for you, as part of the contract. Knowing where the leaks are can be tough. And, you don't always have much of a say with the leakers, especially if they are otherwise your best provider for your overall distribution needs. I truly don't believe this is as cut and dry as you feel it should be to control.

I do, and it's not as hard as it may seem to some. Remember, they are selling to these suppliers in bulk not one'se, two'se - so they only need to track the SR#'s by 'block'. It's basic supply chain software & inventory management stuff these days (most bulk shipments are bar code scanned into & out of inventory).

As a fellow IT person, I would think you would consider these premies by URC to be every bit as laughable as I do:
Our remotes are powerful and quite advanced, and in the hands of a trained programmer they can ........... - oh P-L-E-A-S-E :rolleyes:
And, as I have stated before, I don't really consider this to be 'programming' - it's just setup/configuration.

As for reconsidering them, I simply do not trust them since they have precipitated a situation that left existing customers high & dry. This alone is enough to give me cause to spend my $$ elsewhere. I'm sure they don't care that they lost 1 sale and they are not alone. I just returmed a Logitech 880 because their software has 'bugs' that renders the customizable features useless. After many calls & e-mails to tech support, turns out they've know about it for over a month & it will be another month before they can fix it ! In researching the issues, seems this is the 3rd time they have introduced crippling software glitches. That remote went packing back & I would be hard pressed to ever consider their product again - seems they cannot be trusted either !

The search continues ..........

I do, and it's not as hard as it may seem to some. Remember, they are selling to these suppliers in bulk not one'se, two'se - so they only need to track the SR#'s by 'block'.

Sure, but do they have access to that info without hiring somebody in addition to those they've hired along the distribution chain? It costs more money to checkup on your chain. Why would they need to go through that expense? You didn't address my other notion, that they may not have much of a distributor choice, either - we don't know in this case.


As a fellow IT person, I would think you would consider these premies by URC to be every bit as laughable as I do:
- oh P-L-E-A-S-E :rolleyes:
And, as I have stated before, I don't really consider this to be 'programming' - it's just setup/configuration.

It's still easily classified as programming a device, and I say that as an I/T person. EDIT: I should add that "marketing speak" is what it is, and I accept your sneering at it from an I/T level. Sure, the blurb sounds silly to us, but we can't deny that it is meant to represent URC positioning of how this product line is meant to be supported. Which, again, is not a unique stance for such a line in this or other industries.

- ooofest

I am cross-posting (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10105354#post10105354) a request for knowledge concerning Toshiba DVDR/DVR component discrete codes, because this forum seems the more appropriate place for my original query. Hope that's OK.

Sorry if I seem desperate . . . perhaps I am! In attempting to make these MX-700 macros relatively foolproof for my family and guests, the DVR is the only standout to cause problems due to no evident ON/OFF discrete codes (or obvious work-arounds).

- ooofest

I am cross-posting (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10105354#post10105354) a request for knowledge concerning Toshiba DVDR/DVR component discrete codes, because this forum seems the more appropriate place for my original query. Hope that's OK.

Sorry if I seem desperate . . . perhaps I am! In attempting to make these MX-700 macros relatively foolproof for my family and guests, the DVR is the only standout to cause problems due to no evident ON/OFF discrete codes (or obvious work-arounds).

- ooofest

The Motorola 641x DVR's have the same issue; we all just opt to leave them ON all the time (even though you turn it off, it is STILL really running afterall - I doubt you'll find a huge difference in power consumption).

The Motorola 641x DVR's have the same issue; we all just opt to leave them ON all the time (even though you turn it off, it is STILL really running afterall - I doubt you'll find a huge difference in power consumption).

Ack, I was considering this. Or, toggling ON/OFF states in unison with the television/receiver. In theory, if we don't trip the DVR's On/Standby code in a submenu, it should remain synched with the power states of other components. This DVR apparently needs to be placed in Standby mode to use the supplied IR blaster for downloading TVGuide info from the cable box. Although, I may just give up on the blaster and try a different method for recording digital channels from the STB.

Thanks,

- ooofest

I am cross-posting (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10105354#post10105354) a request for knowledge concerning Toshiba DVDR/DVR component discrete codes, because this forum seems the more appropriate place for my original query. Hope that's OK.

Sorry if I seem desperate . . . perhaps I am! In attempting to make these MX-700 macros relatively foolproof for my family and guests, the DVR is the only standout to cause problems due to no evident ON/OFF discrete codes (or obvious work-arounds).

- ooofest
What I do, and it works in my circumstance like a charm, is to use one device that has discrete on/off codes to control the device that doesn’t have…

I use the SmartStrip
http://catalog.bitsltd.us/

peter

What I do, and it works in my circumstance like a charm, is to use one device that has discrete on/off codes to control the device that doesn’t have…

I use the SmartStrip
http://catalog.bitsltd.us/

Thank you - it's a great idea (I did consider a similar notion, using Power from the cable set-top box), but hadn't seen the SmartStrip product, specifically.

Unfortunately, the Toshiba DVR is my one component which needs constant A/C: even in lowered-power Standby mode, it's scheduled to record various shows to the HDD.

And, the spouse doesn't enjoy having this DVR constantly powered ON vs. keeping it in Standby (for the bulk of our day, i.e., when it is not utilized) . . . so, I'm trying various ideas in the MX-700 programmer, but may require tripping of a global ON command before use of the activity-based macros. . . which would defeat the neat ability of such macros to automagically turn ON what they would need, of course.

- ooofest

Ah -so you are not wanting to toggle on/off but on/standy then?

peter

Ah -so you are not wanting to toggle on/off but on/standy then?

peter
I suppose that would be the case for this component - they call the toggle an "On/Standby" switch at points in the manual, but also refer to it being "powered off" when using that same toggle.

Essentially, the DVR is set for scheduled recordings - therefore, it must be in some powered state when those recordings are meant to occur.

- ooofest

I have a Motorola DVR and my MX700 is set so that when I watch cable tv the macro has a "go to" that displays the cable functions. If one of the components somehow don't get changed, I simply go back to my main screen and press the
"Cable" button.
I have mine set so that the only system turn off is from the Main screen (this is with the power on and off buttons at the top). I have some discreet codes but my tv and cable box do not have discreet codes.

It is NOT foolproof but NO remote is.

Most of us here have expensive(relative) systems and they require a little knowledge to operate. Some simple training is required for most people to
operate our systems. That is just a fact of life.

Good luck and remember "nothing is foolproof"


Edit: I just remembered another thing I wanted to say.
If for some reason the on/off toggle on the DVR is in the wrong state when I change from another activity, I simply push the power button as the lcd screen is in the Cable mode and the on/off buttons are mapped to the component shown on the lcd screen.

I was reading through several of these posts and my question is,"Should I bother with this or find something else?"

All I want is a remote to run my Sony XBR2, Brighthouse DVR, Onkyo 674, Oppo 970, and my bluray when and if I get it. It was suggested by some in other remote threads on this forum that the MX 700 was the way to go, but after reading these posts, I do not know.

I priced this at surfremote and it is fine...They call themselves an authorized dealer and advertise that they provide updates and new software if I purchase from them.

Have any of you done this? What is you suggestion?

Lenore

SurfRemote IS an authorized dealer; they are not lying if that it what you're asking.

SurfRemote IS an authorized dealer; they are not lying if that it what you're asking.

No, I was not asking if surfremote is lying.

I wanted to know if as an authorized dealer, in your opinion, any problems with updates, new firmware, or any software problems that I encountered with the MX 700 remote, that seems to be a large topic on this thread, would be or could be handled handled by surfremote.

Thanks

Lenore

No, I was not asking if surfremote is lying.

I wanted to know if as an authorized dealer, in your opinion, any problems with updates, new firmware, or any software problems that I encountered with the MX 700 remote, that seems to be a large topic on this thread, would be or could be handled handled by surfremote.

Thanks

Lenore

All an authorized dealer offers is factory warranty support (that is, URC will service the remote ONLY if purchased from an authorized dealer) and the full version software from URC. An AD will give you software support, but then again, so will anyone in the forums here and on remotecentral.com.

Using the full version software, you perform your own firmware upgrades. You can find the full version software from sources other than an authorized dealer. There are no keys or any such nonsense associated with the software; what you get is the same version that everyone uses.

So, for a capable person, the only difference between buying from an AD and a non-AD (ebay, etc) is that you lose the 1 year warranty.

Anybody that needs URC software PM me. I have the update enabled versions.

-brien

Can anyone help me out with an update enabled version?

Can anyone help me out with an update enabled version?


You can just keep registering your remote to download the software. I've done it twice now and both times, the IR DB was updated.

I would also like to acquire the update enabled version if anyone would like to share. Thanks in advance for any help!

deleting post

I have an MX-700 and would like the original software but I can't get it from the website because I don't have a serial number that there system recognizes. Why do they even care, who would download software for a remote control if they didn't have the remote amyway?

If anyone knows of a workaround please let me know.

Thanks,
John

(You can ignore the link I PMed you.)
The magic formula is to go to the download page at Universal Remote.
You'll then have to fill out a form - only bother filling out the required fields (i.e. the ones with asterisks).

For the serial number follow the instructions in this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8995405#post8995405

For me, a K followed by the 6 digit number entered twice, allowed me to download what appears to be a somewhat current version of the software.
It has codes for Tivo Series 3 and Yamaha receivers that are currently available.
An earlier post said the IR database is as of 7/31/06. Maybe that's true.
Regardless, it appears to work.


Mitch

Did not work for me at all. Too bad, it was a good remote. I just purchased a Harmony One. Screw them if must insist on there distribution channels. They will get no more of my business! They made money off me once, and never again.

Actually URC makes a large majority of the remotes that your electronics come with.

The CUSTOM remote that you have I guess must be altered by a Custom Installation company. In My Humble Opion... I will never sell another URC remote and I am an authorized dealer. RTI (remote Technologies Inc) is a far superior control system than URC. and for a bang for the buck RTI slaughters the URC line up. But then again You will also have the same issues with RTI as they as well don't allow the software to change the remote either.

As an Automation specialist this works out well for me as yes I do make money for the chamges and I can assure the customer doesn't mess with the rest of the system. without know they did so by altering the remote functions.

Did not work for me at all. Too bad, it was a good remote. I just purchased a Harmony One. Screw them if must insist on there distribution channels. They will get no more of my business! They made money off me once, and never again.

YEA!!! You showed them. I'll bet you can hear the locks being put on the doors at URC if you listen close enough.:rolleyes: And thanx for bringing back a 2+ year old post on a topic that has been beaten to death. Those who take the time and do some reasearch, along with contacting URC in a civil manner, get their issues resolved. Good luck with the One. Nothing like taking a step backwards.:rolleyes:

BTW: Loving all my URC remotes (980,880,(2)900's) and the Complete Control Suite with all the updatable Editors! And I'm an end user, NOT a CI.:p

YEA!!! You showed them. I'll bet you can hear the locks being put on the doors at URC if you listen close enough.:rolleyes: And thanx for bringing back a 2+ year old post on a topic that has been beaten to death. Those who take the time and do some reasearch, along with contacting URC in a civil manner, get their issues resolved. Good luck with the One. Nothing like taking a step backwards.:rolleyes:

BTW: Loving all my URC remotes (980,880,(2)900's) and the Complete Control Suite with all the updatable Editors! And I'm an end user, NOT a CI.:p

Your welcome! The MX-700 still is a very good remote which continues to work with newer products by learning commands. As far as URC is concerned, John and Jane consumer ARE NOT (got that) pay a custom installer to program there remote because the lamebrain company will not provide software. STUPID business move and I really don't care how old it is and quite frankly don't care what you think either. MX700 is circa 2002, time to move on to more current equipment. You are right about Harmony One and taking a step backword. It's weak point is the god awefull web based software which lacks granularity and control of custom programming. I wonder what corporate genius thought that scheme up. So you need a PC, Internet, and no way to backup a local copy of your configuration. Other than the few oddities it presents, it's not bad. Doesn't have the solid feel like the ole MX, and the button spacing could have been better. In the end they will leave the consumer hanging just like URC did when they decide no more support

You've got a PM.

With respect to an authorized dealer, I bought mine through Jason here at AVS. Will I be able to get the new software?