At first glance, the Gefen Home Theater Scaler looks like just another cheap Mac mini knock-off, but it's so much more than that. Assuming that it works as advertised, the HTS will upconvert your standard-definition video to high-definition, all the way up to 1080p.

info pages:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4174
http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/entry/3240/gefen_set_to

Mmm, I wonder how this will preform. Maybe it will usher in an era of ultra-cheap video processors...

I think scaling is not as big an issue or as difficult a process as proper de-interlacing of SD and HD.

I think this is interesting...lets see how it really performs...

There is already a thread opened few days ago ;) please follow this one ;)

Gefen has a pretty good reputation. Still, I doubt that something like this can do what the VP30/ABT102, CII or Lumagen scalers do.

Well ofcourse not, but the question is what can it do at this entry level price point??

http://www.mstarsemi.com/

any ideas about them?

i did a little more research and i'll bet that this is the chip....but it's just a guess. ;)

Mstar announces MST5251A UXGA LCD TV controller

Chris Hall, DigiTimes.com, Taipei [Thursday 2 June 2005]

As a number of Taiwan companies have learned, LCD controllers are a brutally competitive segment, subject to extreme downward pressure on pricing. That isn't stopping Mstar Semiconductor from offering advanced designs, and on day one of Computex, Mstar announced its MST5251A UXGA LCD TV controller.

This LCD controller features an integrated HDMI 1.0 receiver at up to UXGA resolution and targets the North American market for digital TV. Mstar's MST5251A controller also incorporates a dual high-performance 3D motion adaptive video de-interlacer. This feature, commented company executive Kakuc Chen, enables the MST5251A to compete directly with Genesys Logic's current HDTV solution.

Cost reduction is always a design imperative for this type of controller, and the MST5251A product integrates the MstarACE-2 advanced picture/color processing engine, enabling TV manufacturers to save on the cost of a separate picture/color processing chip. Other leading features of this controller include enhanced 3D noise reduction, as well as dual high-quality non-linear scaling engines.

The MST5251A UXGA LCD TV controller is in mass production now. "We have the ability to help our customers get their TV products into mass production quickly, enabling fast time to market," emphasized Chen.

Mstar, headquartered in Hsinchu, Taiwan, is a relatively young company. Since it started out in 2002, Mstar has focused on the development of highly integrated flat-panel display ICs and mixed signal ASIC solutions.

Hi Guys,
Does anyone know if this box can do vertical stretch on 1080i/p 24/60 material ? There's not much info yet on this scaler yet since it's not available... I sent an email to Geffen asking them for more vertical stretch info.
-bert

I'd really like to know if it'll take the 1080p output of the PS3 and pass that through to my display, as well as upconverting the games that only run in 720p. Sounds too good to be true at that price.

How much do Realta or HQV (just the) chips cost?

Maybe someone can build a video processor with one of those chips for $399, perhaps without so many HDMI inputs and perhaps without a composite input that needs a comb filter, and blow away the internal processing (picture quality wise) of more than 90% of the HDTV's currently being sold.

Wait a minute! The thread title says SD to HD scaling. You only need a SIL504 or equivalent (there's your motion adaptiveness) and some inexpensive already ubiquitous scaling to do that. Even SD to SD units (de-interlacing only) are hard to come by at low prices other than secondhand and this Gefen unit may fill that niche too.

Video hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/viddoubl.htm

They dont cost as much as the processors they appear in would have you believe. There have been tech articles recently that note many of the LCD and plasma siplay manufacturers are starting to look at these processors for inclusion in their upcoming lines of displays to increase picture quality advert that as a value add feature to distinguish themselves. A 42 LCD that sells for $2500 will not all of a sudden cost $3500 because they added advanced processing. It may cost another $200. The days of $3000 Video scalers are numbered.

for example, Syntax Olevia (not a high-end or boutique brand) is already starting to include HQV class processing in their LCD panels for a pretty small premium:
http://www.olevia.com/jsp/products/features.jsp?pid=747i

Stop the PRESSES!!!

Just called Gefen about the delay to the HD TH Scaler. The sales rep mentioned that the first designs weren't up to specs and that Gefen was going to change to the Gennum chipset!!! Plus, the new price was $450, but they would be honoring the initial $400 pre-order price for early adopters. Way to go Gefen!!!!

Is there a release date?

I called them and they mentioned end of january if my memory serves me correctly

Don't Gennum have an entry-level chip as well as the VXP?

good question....choddp2006

that's immediately what i looked for on the website, but the only one mentioned was the VXP.
i guess we won't know until the release of the product.

very interesting, but Gennum doesn't necessarily mean VXP.

Also, we need to know what else is going in there. If there's minimal features, it might not be relevant to many people here.

Could anyone explain the difference between *upconverting* and *upscaling*?

I'd like to get the best PQ possible from my 1080p set and want an unscaler to attach to my cable TV, Bluray player, and PS3, but am unclear as to what I need to do so.

Just called Gefen about the delay to the HD TH Scaler. The sales rep mentioned that the first designs weren't up to specs and that Gefen was going to change to the Gennum chipset!!! Plus, the new price was $450, but they would be honoring the initial $400 pre-order price for early adopters. Way to go Gefen!!!!Excellent news, if true. If they are using Gennum, they'll have a giant-killer on their hands. They could sell tens of thousands with the right press...

very interesting, but Gennum doesn't necessarily mean VXP.

Also, we need to know what else is going in there. If there's minimal features, it might not be relevant to many people here.AFAIK, Gennum doesn't offer any scaling solutions outside of the VXP. Gennum's new GF9450 is more featured and less expensive than their previous solutions, so that's a possibility. Another possibility is that Gefen got an excellent price on an earlier version of the VXP that Gennum is clearing out with the release of the GF9450 now imminent. Once the new GF9450 is shipping, there probably won't be much demand for their older, less capable solutions that may still be sitting in a warehouse somewhere. It's not like these chips were expensive new, just a bit over $30 in quantity.

Either way, you can't expect Gefen to support all the advanced functionality of $2000+ scalers, even those that might be using the same chip. The Gennum VXP itself was never in line with the cost of the products that used it; it's always been the software and implementation R&D that was expensive. If Gefen is using VXP, I would expect a very basic feature set to minimize R&D cost.

Could anyone explain the difference between *upconverting* and *upscaling*?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=769171

If this product provides what it claims to, this will be a revolutionary product at this price point.

- Motion adaptive, inverse telecine for 1080i sources
- noise reduction
- full transcoding of all inputs to HDMI

At $449 this is simply amazing.

Tom,

Don't get ahead of yourself. Lets wait and see and then we can see if this product really does it all.

On a side note of Manufacturers adding processors it was mentioned to me by SharpUSA Rep shared future info until Sharp forbid him from sharing here since CEDIA, he had hinted before CEDIA that the next Gen D92 Sharps may incorporate the Micronas TruD Chip added to the 120Hz of that panel.

The Website demo's the Micronas TruD HD and looks impressive for Manufacturers inclusion but I don't recall this ever being discussed in the VP section.

He hinted the D92's would have an additional $1K added for the improved featureset over the D62 units but of course that was before all the recent price drops and QC issues with the D62's that I would guess would slice that in half.

Below is a page of Flash Demo's or perhaps these are just enhancements to bring LCD a few steps further? Looks great if it delivers and they will have a booth at CES - just along the thoughts of Manu's adding advance processing to separate one's quality from the pack and at a much lower cost we can hope.

http://www.micronas.com/products/trud_HD/index.html#145752

The Website demo's the Micronas TruD HD and looks impressive for Manufacturers inclusion but I don't recall this ever being discussed in the VP section.
I had asked in the PixelMagic forum about Micronas TruD HD. They've seen it at some show but they didn't like it too much. They said it's their impression that the technology isn't far enough yet.

On a side note of Manufacturers adding processors it was mentioned to me by SharpUSA Rep shared future info until Sharp forbid him from sharing here since CEDIA, he had hinted before CEDIA that the next Gen D92 Sharps may incorporate the Micronas TruD Chip added to the 120Hz of that panel.

The Website demo's the Micronas TruD HD and looks impressive for Manufacturers inclusion but I don't recall this ever being discussed in the VP section.

He hinted the D92's would have an additional $1K added for the improved featureset over the D62 units but of course that was before all the recent price drops and QC issues with the D62's that I would guess would slice that in half.

Below is a page of Flash Demo's or perhaps these are just enhancements to bring LCD a few steps further? Looks great if it delivers and they will have a booth at CES - just along the thoughts of Manu's adding advance processing to separate one's quality from the pack and at a much lower cost we can hope.


I usually refrain from being a wise ass, but what does this have to do with the new Gefen Home Theater Scaler?

fellas, please stick to the subject at hand :(

what does this have to do with the new Gefen Home Theater Scaler?

I think what this means is that along with the Gefen many Display manufactures will be incorporating cost effective and much improved scaling solutions thus eliminating the need for the likes of DVDO, Lumagen etc. These companies will either have to reduce their prices or disappear.

CD

I think what this means is that along with the Gefen many Display manufactures will be incorporating cost effective and much improved scaling solutions thus eliminating the need for the likes of DVDO, Lumagen etc. These companies will either have to reduce their prices or disappear.

CD

A sub $500 processor with no reviews? Until I hear more I have serious doubts of it replacing anything in the VP foodchain.

Here is the response I received from Gefen on this product:

Thank you for your suggestions and recommendations concerning the processor to be used in the Home Theatre Scaler.

We use Gennum VXP processors in our HDSDI/DVI scaler products (two of them), but not in the HTS at this time. To do so would drive the retail price unrealistically high for the average home consumer, who simply wishes to hook up an Xbox360 or PS3 (or DVD player) to a large video display. As it stands now, the retail price is going to be $449. Should we put a Gennum processor into the device, the retail price would climb drastically, probably over $1000. I don't think many home consumers would think of buying the unit at that price.


Regards,

Robert Van
Technical Support Engineer
818-8xx-6xxx / Los Angeles, CA, USACC: AHIt looks like some of the recent excitement over Gefen's $399 HTS was unjustified, as Mr. Van of Gefen confirmed yesterday that the HTS will not use technology from Gennum.

The following two products do use Gennum VXP processing:

Gefen HDSDI to DVI Scaler (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3876) ($1049)
Gefen DVI to HDSDI Scaler (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3874) ($1299)

bfdtv,

the question is if this particular product will use the same.

BTW, Gefen's offerings in the HD-SDI arena are intriguing!

Just a thought - does a reasonably priced device exist to convert an analog source to HD-SDI? Hopefully, without a scaler included? Also, will an HD-SDI input accept plain old SDI?

alan,

If it's analog, what is the use (except for broadcasters and editing studios) of converting to HD SDI?

Yes, HD-SDI includes all the specs in the "old" SDI configuration.

If it's analog, what is the use (except for broadcasters and editing studios) of converting to HD SDI?

There's no particular advantage in converting analog to HD-SDI that I know of, except that this ability allows me to use Gefen's HD-SDI to DVI Scaler with Gennum VXP processing. This piece has only two HD-SDI inputs and no RGB, component, DVI or HDMI inputs. None of my sources include an HD-SDI output (or SDI as of yet). I did locate one such device, the AJA HD10A A/D Converter, which appears to do what I want, but it's list price is $890 - not what I'm looking for. I would prefer something priced roughly half of that.

Maybe this isn't worth pursuing - I have no idea. It's just a thought. I'd rather that Gefen make a special version of their Home Theater Scaler that included Gennum VXP processing. Or, failing that, add an analog input of some kind to their HD-SDI to DVI scaler.

1.3K is still a great price for a Gennum scaler, though the input/output options on that device are limiting to say the least. Strange that they don't offer a more conventional set of connections with the high-end scaling/deinterlacing chip.

Tom,

100% agreed. The question is only if the featureset is good enough. I can't imagine purchasing a scaler without custom timing, discrete controls, test patterns or a high level of control over aspect ratio.

Has anyone noticed that there are now 3 versions of this processor?

Home Theater Scaler
Home theater Scaler PLUS
HD Mate Scaler

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/codviupswsc.html
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/htconverters.jsp

No mention of a Gennum processor though.

Has anyone noticed that there are now 3 versions of this processor?

Home Theater Scaler
Home theater Scaler PLUS
HD Mate ScalerThe HTS Plus adds Composite and S-Video outputs to those that exist on the other unit. That's the difference.

Several things are not clear from the gefen spec sheet.

1. Do the HDMI inputs also pass PCM / Bit stream audio or not?
2. Does it only deinterlace NTSC video or does it also deinterlace 1080i?
3. When does Gefen say they will be available?

Several things are not clear from the gefen spec sheet.

1. Do the HDMI inputs also pass PCM / Bit stream audio or not?
2. Does it only deinterlace NTSC video or does it also deinterlace 1080i?
3. When does Gefen say they will be available?

It is supposed to be released by the end of January. I am fairly sure that it will pass audio through the HDMI inputs, but I just inferred that from the feature set. Same for the ability to deinterlace 1080i. For clarity, I posed the questions in the Gefen forums here (http://forum.gefen.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1558).

Two questions are important to me:

- Will it do proper inverse telecine?
- Which scaling chipset is built in (we heard that it's not the VPX from gennum *damn*)

I wrote gefen. Never got a response to my questions.

Several things are not clear from the gefen spec sheet.

1. Do the HDMI inputs also pass PCM / Bit stream audio or not?
2. Does it only deinterlace NTSC video or does it also deinterlace 1080i?
3. When does Gefen say they will be available?

I am considering buying this piece of equipment, and Gefen technical support told me over the phone that it will pass digital audio via HDMI. Not sure about the deinterlacing capabilities, but it should be available by the end of this month.

So who'd ordering & who's waiting for reviews ???

With this unit, will you still need an upconverting DVD or will a cheap progressive scan work well with it ??

So who'd ordering & who's waiting for reviews ???
Waiting for reviews. "If it sounds too good to be true ....."

Someone should update the title to reflect the $449 price and maybe mention the + for $499.

I'll probably buy from a place that has a generous return policy. The deinterlacer in my TV is bad enough that I need something and don't have the budget to spend $1500 on one from another manufacturer.

BTW, support at Gefen has answered my question.

1.) It does deinterlace to 1080p.
2.) It does pass PCM audio.

The scaler/deinterlacer used is an Mstar chip.

The scaler/deinterlacer used is an Mstar chip

I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing - where does the Mstar chip rank in the scaler world?

will it do a vertical stretch

Never heard of that mStar scaling chip before. And that HTS will not do inverse telecine. So for me that chip is ranked very low ;-)
I think it will be ok to upscale some SD inputs, like broadcasts and game consoles. Not really a Home Theater Scaler in my eyes. It's not worth it...

Here it is on their website. Note the pre-order price is now $499, so presumably it will be higher after release.

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4298

Note the pre-order price is now $499

There are three versions, the Home Theater Scaler ($449), Home Theater Scaler Plus ($499) and the Home Mate Scaler ($349). The Plus adds composite and S-Video, the Mate subtracts the HDMI inputs and output and replaces them with one DVI input and one DVI output. Not much interested in the Mate myself.

as a custom installer, we are using the component switching in our receivers and processors for the video switching of different sources. mostly dvd player, hd cablebox and/or hd sat receiver, music server, sometimes vcr and others. the current receivers and processors do a good job of this but it this product might be an improvement between the receiver and video display, mostly plasma tv's.

this is what i see this product is gunning for. hopefully this product will be an improvement in this area.

HD Mate Scaler (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4173) ($349)
http://www.gefen.com/images/hd_mate_back.jpg

Home Theater Scaler (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4174) ($449)
http://www.gefen.com/images/ht_scaler_back.jpg

Home Theater Scaler PLUS (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4298) ($499)
http://www.gefen.com/images/ext-hometsp-back.jpg

Wish it had 4 HDMI ports, also would like to see how much tweaking and what the gui looks like on this thing?

Any mention at all about HDMI 1.3 support?

I don't see anything listed about grey-scale/gamma calibration. Any idea if this unit will offer these features?

Is it just me, or is the non-PLUS version the best one. It seems to have an extra component input at a cheaper price (which to me has more value than old legacy composite and s-video inputs).

I wonder how this scaling would compare to the internal scaling done by my Sony A2000? I guess we will have to wait for this to come out to see.

I wish there was a reasonably priced Gennum VXP solution on the horizon.

Is it just me, or is the non-PLUS version the best one. It seems to have an extra component input at a cheaper price (which to me has more value than old legacy composite and s-video inputs).

I wonder how this scaling would compare to the internal scaling done by my Sony A2000? I guess we will have to wait for this to come out to see.

I wish there was a reasonably priced Gennum VXP solution on the horizon.

Yea, tell me about it, the non-plus version ($449) seems like the better of the two. So much hype on this product at this time and no-one knows what it does or how it does it. I really hope its worth all the hype.

I wish there was a reasonably priced Gennum VXP solution on the horizon.

I'd consider Gefen's HD-SDI to DVI Scaler (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3876) ($1049) that does use the Gennum VXP reasonably priced. The downside, of course, is that it only offers HD-SDI inputs and a DVI output. If anyone knows of a reasonably priced (<$500) SD to HD-SDI converter, let me know.

I wish there was a reasonably priced Gennum VXP solution on the horizon.

Yeah, me too. The other Gefen Gennum solutions are nothing for me. Need inverse telecine and HDMi.

So I will get the HD 3000 scaler from optoma. With Gennum VXP chip. All I need.

So I will get the HD 3000 scaler from optoma

I have not been keeping up on all the scalers. What is the price for an HD 3000? I think there is a thread on this scaler lying around that I ought to read, I guess.

Just got off the phone with Gefen and the sales guy tried to get the lowdown on the aspect ratio control for me. He talked to an engineer guy who said it would stretch the picture to fit the screen, but not sure if they meant vertical stretch only. He got into some user selected options for overscan, but I just want vertical stretch and horizontal squeeze. So bottom line is I'm not sure if it does it. He did say the price on the website is their retail price and won't change once released. I encourage someone with some vertical stretch know how, to call (800)545-6900 and ask to talk to an engineer.

Thanks

PS. Manual will be out the day before launch, which they hope will be before February.

Yeah, me too. The other Gefen Gennum solutions are nothing for me. Need inverse telecine and HDMi.

So I will get the HD 3000 scaler from optoma. With Gennum VXP chip. All I need.

I just looked at the price of that scaler and it's MSRP is $2999. Guess it can be had online for around $2200. Talk about comparing apples to oranges..

The Gefen has no inputs for composite video or S-video. I assume there is a good reason. Can someone explain?
Are there any scalers or upconverters that can process the output from VCRs and laserdisk players (I have a huge collection of what appear now to be worthless laserdisks) to make them look acceptable on my Panasonic AX-100U?
Also the output from my DirecTv receiver (S-video output) needs serious help.
Thanks.

I noticed that the Home Theater Scaler Plus has these. But is it possible that the HTS Plus can do anything useful with these?

Would I be too optimistic to hope for frame rate conversion?

The Gefen has no inputs for composite video or S-video. I assume there is a good reason. Can someone explain?
Are there any scalers or upconverters that can process the output from VCRs and laserdisk players (I have a huge collection of what appear now to be worthless laserdisks) to make them look acceptable on my Panasonic AX-100U?
Also the output from my DirecTv receiver (S-video output) needs serious help.
Thanks.These are mostly for connectivity. A processor can't create detail that doesn't exist in the original signal. It can only accomplish modest improvements with poor sources.

So please tell me what improvements I might expect in my image if the Gefen performs in a "best case scenario" fashion, when it is fed the S-video signal from my satellite receiver, for example. Will it be sharper? Have less noise? Have better colors? Better contrast? All of these, or none?
Thanks!

So please tell me what improvements I might expect in my image if the Gefen performs in a "best case scenario" fashion

You know, no one has one of these yet. It has not been reviewed by anyone that I'm aware of. No one has the answer to your question unless it's Gefen. You'll just have to wait for answers like the rest of us.

I realize these are not available yet. My question was simply a hypothetical. Many of you have a much better technical grasp of what is *likely* to be incorporated into the design of a video processor than I do. At least your posts seem to suggest this. So my question was more about what *any* high quality VP should be capable of, realizing, of course, that the Gefen may not deliver.

what's with the lack of the inputs though? i would have paid more if there were enough to use it as upscaler AND a switchbox. would have simplified our lives a bit...

what's with the lack of the inputs though?

In case you haven't heard, list price for these scalers range from $349 for the Home Mate Scaler to $499 for the Home Theater Scaler Plus - just exactly what are you expecting at these prices? On the Plus, there are two component and two HDMI inputs, plus composite and s-video. If you need more inputs than this, there are many scalers that will fill the bill, at a much higher price, of course.

paying a couple of grand for one additional hdmi + one more component is a bit stretched, don't you think? but i won't mind at all paying a couple of hundred on top of the prices you mentioned if they had, say, 3 hdmi and 3 component inputs. won't you?

i won't mind at all paying a couple of hundred on top of the prices you mentioned if they had, say, 3 hdmi and 3 component inputs. won't you?

Umm - no, I don't want to pay a couple hundred more for two more inputs. I just don't need 'em - switching between my "conventional" sources will be done through my preamp/processor; only the critical ones, the ones I really care about, will go directly into the scaler. In fact, if it would save a couple hundred, I would accept one less component and one less HDMI.

well, that's another way to go - less inputs and switch on a receiver or a separate box. all i am saying 2 each is not enough if you use it as a switchbox as well as a scaler. and i do need 6 hd inputs :P

This could be just what I need. I have a LCD with 1360X768 and it "deinterlaces" by dropping a frame so as I understand it 1080i in my set is really 540p scaled to 768 :( this barely meets the definition of HD, 720p looks better than 1080i.

If this could do a good job of deinterlacing and then scale it to 1360X768 or even better scale 1080p to 1360x768 (I have a PS3) for less than $500 then sing me up :)

Now if it could also do some video enhancements that would just be a plus. I would love a lumagen or a crystalio II but they are just to much for me to spend.

This sounds like a good (not the best) solution to my problem.

If there is a better solution to my problem in this price range I have not found it.

tower101,

I think you mean it drops a field (more likely it bobs fields).

Clearly this product won't compete with the VP series from DVD0 or other similarly priced products. Moreover, I imagine it won't amount to much of an improvement over the video processing of the top notch displays (though I could be much mistaken there) but for the bulk of displays aimed at the masses (particularly if it can scale to the odd resolutions like 1024x768 or 1024x1024, as well as the more common 1366x768, 1280x720 and 1920x1080), this could be a great product at a real world price point. I know that when I get a display (sometime before George Bush leaves office, I hope) I'd be willing to consider this product (if it receives good reviews from reliable sources) but a 2000-4000$ processor is out of the question for me, and, I suspect, for most people (perhaps not in here, but in the general population). But I won't expect this device to work as well as the DVDO gear. That's simply unreasonable.

I quote this from a review on the DVD0 scaler on projectorcentral:

"The iScan HD also does a good job cleaning up images from VCRs. Sharpness is improved and noise is substantially reduced. VHS tape is in general not a good video source for large format projection. But the iScan HD renders tapes that might otherwise be marginal quite watchable by giving you a cleaner and more stable image."

"We found the results with standard television to be less compelling. With standard television via satellite we did see a slight improvement in sharpness and stability. However, like VHS tape, television blown up to very large screen proportions never looks particularly good compared to DVD, and the consumer should not anticipate that the iScan HD will deliver a dramatically improved television image. It is slightly better, but still nowhere as good as DVD."

Nothing here really surprises me, but as to the Gefen doing anything *at all* to help with a composite or S-Video signal from my satellite receiver, this pretty much dashes any hope I might have had for even marginal improvement.

I expect the Gefen to de-interlace and scale to a display's native resolution better than the built in solutions for most (read affordable to the masses) displays. I don't expect it to work miracles on subpar sources. I'll be happy if it makes the most of SD DVDs, hi-def discs and HD sat/cable broadcast (though, presumably, this will only occur with displays capable of 1:1 on HDMI).

I noticed that the Home Theater Scaler Plus has these. But is it possible that the HTS Plus can do anything useful with these?

I did notice that Gefen mentions aspect ratio control on the HTS Plus web page... so maybe this is targeted at folks who want to hook up 4:3 sources to their widescreen TVs, & would otherwise get a stretched picture through a plain ol' switcher.

Will this unit eliminate the need for an upconverting DVD player ?? I need a switcher/converter ( component to HDMI) & it seems this unit will so that + if I'm reading this thread correctly, I can save money on the DVD palyer !!! ???

Will this unit eliminate the need for an upconverting DVD player ?? I need a switcher/converter ( component to HDMI) & it seems this unit will so that + if I'm reading this thread correctly, I can save money on the DVD palyer !!! ???

In theory, yes. Depends on the quality of the implimentation though.

On the 2.35:1 forum, I asked if there was any hope to use my old 2X anamorphic adapter (used for film) as a substitute for one of the expensive Panamorph or Isco 1.77X adapters.
That would of course require image compression to about 1.20:1 or less for standard Cinemascope. Any chance the Gefen could do this? Or the DVD0? I am sorry I am new to this, so may be asking a dumb question.
I have experimented already by holding the adapter in front of my Pana AX-100U lense
and setting the projector to create a 1.33:1 full height image for a CS film, but of course the result is too wide.

tower101,

I think you mean it drops a field (more likely it bobs fields).

Yes I do, it drops a field.

The PS3 only plays BD in 480p, 1080i or 1080p, if you set it for 720p it plays games in 720 but plays BD at 480p.

This would help?

This may be a dumb question, but is there anywhere that lays out the differences between the various video processing chips (Faroudja, Gennum, Silicon Opix, Lumagen, etc) in a way that's easy for noobs like myself to understand? Something more along the lines of a group comparison than a forum, maybe? (If only because they tend to be more succinct). Thanks in advance for any help you can give!!

I have a Samsung HL-s6187w Tv and the two inputs to it are a Toshiba hd-a2 HDDVD player and a HD DVR from my cable company. Since both of these units will only output a maximum resolution of 1080i, will I get a better picture using an external video processor such as the new Gefen unit to do the deinterlacing, rather than letting the TV inboard scaler do the job.

I understand that the Gefen unit is not out yet, and no one has reviewed it yet. So I guess the question I really have is the Samsung onboard scaler up to the task or will I see a "significant" imrpovement with an external scaler?

Thanks for any help

I have a Samsung HL-s6187w Tv and the two inputs to it are a Toshiba hd-a2 HDDVD player and a HD DVR from my cable company. Since both of these units will only output a maximum resolution of 1080i, will I get a better picture using an external video processor such as the new Gefen unit to do the deinterlacing, rather than letting the TV inboard scaler do the job.The question is, do you see any problems with letting the TV do the deinterlacing?

For HD DVD movies at 1080i, good processing will detect the 3-2 pulldown pattern which will mean that they play back with absolutely zero jaggies. How does your TV do in this area?

And look at these nice scalers from Cypress, 3D noise reduction and all......

http://www.cypress.com.tw/product.php?PId=58040&CId=005&CName=Video%20Scalers&SR=0

http://www.cypress.com.tw/product.php?PId=89200&CId=005&CName=Video%20Scalers&SR=0

(I have a huge collection of what appear now to be worthless laserdisks) to make them look acceptable on my Panasonic AX-100U?
Also the output from my DirecTv receiver (S-video output) needs serious help.
Thanks.
How do the laserdiscs look when you connect directly to the projector? Try both the composite and S-video from the LD player and also both the composite and S-video from the Direct TV unit. For the latter it is possible only some of the channels will look better with S-video.

And look at these nice scalers from Cypress, 3D noise reduction and all......

http://www.cypress.com.tw/product.php?PId=58040&CId=005&CName=Video%20Scalers&SR=0

http://www.cypress.com.tw/product.php?PId=89200&CId=005&CName=Video%20Scalers&SR=0
Were you able to find any prices on the website?

or anywhere outside of the UK for that matter :)

I requested a review sample unit from Gefen, who now say that the product will be shipping early March. Will keep you up to date on how this turns out.

I'd consider Gefen's HD-SDI to DVI Scaler (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3876) ($1049) that does use the Gennum VXP reasonably priced. The downside, of course, is that it only offers HD-SDI inputs and a DVI output. If anyone knows of a reasonably priced (<$500) SD to HD-SDI converter, let me know.
Hi Alan,

I also am interested in this unit. Before this time the only other high quality contender for this conversion and scaling was the Teranex Mini at almost 3 times the price.

FYI it will accept the output from any of our SDI modded standard definition DVD players or satellite receivers such as those modded by Tom Strade of Immersive or JVB Digital:

http://forum.gefen.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1196

Regarding the conversion of analog sources to SDI, this is where we need to get more info and better pricing...

Also, for those using front projectors, I am asking Gefen in their forums if this unit allows for adjustable porches to enable all sources to perfectly fit the screen.

Cheers,

Brett

I am a novice to VP's / Scalers... I recently bought a Sharp LC52D62U. The picture quality of the SD Digital channels is pretty poor. I have an HD cable box with built in TIVO hooked up to it currently.

After wandering all over the net I ran into this Gefen product. Given all the expertise out there, does anyone have an opinion or evaluation of the product based on the specs currently published on the website.

Its a new product so I figure it has new technology that can offer good de-interlacing and some of the other features that the more expensive scalers have at a reasonable price. But... that is just the opinion of a novice like me.

I just blew the budget with the TV, so I am looking for a reasonaably priced solution to my digital/ analog PQ issues with the Sharp. Having snooped around the net, I get the impression that I am not the only one with a SD PQ issues with these new LCD /Plasma large screens. I need some guidance... Help!

purple,

I take it you have the Tivo Series3? If so, you might want to try setting the output resolution to the "native" mode. That will create an extra sync delay (while your display syncs to different resolutions), but it may improve the quality of SD channels.

Unfortunately, there is not a low-cost solution that is going to do significantly better processing than your Sharp. In order to see a significant improvement, you need to step up to a solution with Silicon Optix HQV or Gennum VXP processing. Unfortunately, current products with that technology start at around $2000. However, around mid-year, Denon is expected to release its first HDMI 1.3 A/V receivers with Silicon Optix HQV processing for $1500 or less. You might want to save your money for one of those.

Thanks for the prompt reply... Needless to say, I am crushed by your response. I just cant believe that I just spent all this money on the Sharp LC52D62U and now I cant get picture quality to match my clunker old SD Sony on the digital channels. I am still within the 30 day period to take it back. I cant imagine paying $1500-$2000 just to get digital PQ that I should expect from such a modern and expensive TV. Sharp is coming out with a new 82U in 2 months. Dont know whether it addresses this issue.

I thought that by feeding the Sharp with a cleaner signal provided by the Gefen, it would solve the problem. This is very disappointing.

purpleh,

Did you try setting the Tivo Series3 to native as I suggested above?

If FiOS is available in your area, it offers somewhat better SD picture quality than most cable providers. That said, the 1954 NTSC standard was never really meant for display on 50+" screens. NTSC was designed back when 20" (and less) TVs were the norm. That's part of the reason we have high-definition -- not simply to make the picture look incredible, but to more appropriately suit larger displays which are becoming more and more common.

SD zoomed or "blown up" on a 52" will never look as it did on a 32" TV, regardless of what you buy. But what SD are you watching? The local networks broadcast their primetime lineups -- which I am sure you record -- in high-definition. Cable channels like CSN/FSN, ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, FOOD, MTV, NGC, Discovery, HBO, Cinemax, Starz, Showtime, and TMC are offered in HD, with others like SciFi and History to follow later this year. Even the news networks are slowly making the move to HD -- NBC News launches in high-def next month.

Yesterday someone asked Gefen if the Home Theater Scaler would pass the HQV benchmark tests and they originally said no, but as you can see by clicking the link below they revised their answer and said that the Home Theater Scaler will pass all the HQV benchmark tests!

The unfortunate thing is this is one of those products that will always be released in "about 2 weeks."

http://forum.gefen.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1608

Yesterday someone asked Gefen if the Home Theater Scaler would pass the HQV benchmark tests and they originally said no, but as you can see by clicking the link below they revised their answer and said that the Home Theater Scaler will pass all the HQV benchmark tests!

The unfortunate thing is this is one of those products that will always be released in "about 2 weeks."

http://forum.gefen.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1608

This might be a real killer the market needs to press down the insane prices from other manufacturers, why pay more than you need to?

Yesterday someone asked Gefen if the Home Theater Scaler would pass the HQV benchmark tests and they originally said no, but as you can see by clicking the link below they revised their answer and said that the Home Theater Scaler will pass all the HQV benchmark tests!

The unfortunate thing is this is one of those products that will always be released in "about 2 weeks."

http://forum.gefen.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1608

Yeah, I was the one who asked him to elaborate. Strange that he said no and then retracted that by saying it will pass all tests.. It almost creates more questions than it answers.

If it does pass all HQV tests, though, than I will definitely pick this up.

That post didn't indicate whether it meant the SD HQV tests or the new HD HQV tests (http://www.hqv.com/benchmark.cfm). Most modern displays can pass [most] SD HQV tests; it's the high-definition HQV tests where they fail.

That post didn't indicate whether it meant the SD HQV tests or the new HD HQV tests (http://www.hqv.com/benchmark.cfm). Most modern displays can pass [most] SD HQV tests; it's the high-definition HQV tests where they fail.

What I was going to say. SD material is no sweat these days. But even $600 dollar graphics cards fail HD tests miserably [anandtech].

What I was going to say. SD material is no sweat these days. But even $600 dollar graphics cards fail HD tests miserably [anandtech].

There should be laws against SD broadcasts. ;)

Anyone else hear that the Gefen scalers have cleared US customs? A fellow from another forum claims that he spoke with a Gefen rep, and that his scaler should arrive next week. I asked if he would post a review here so hopefully we'll have his feedback.


Can't wait till the reviews start pouring in :)

Anyone else hear that the Gefen scalers have cleared US customs? A fellow from another forum claims that he spoke with a Gefen rep, and that his scaler should arrive next week. I asked if he would post a review here so hopefully we'll have his feedback.


Can't wait till the reviews start pouring in :)


I have one on order but was told by the store I ordered it from that I wouldn't get it until around the 15th.. I'll definitely post my impressions once I get mine.

I have one on order but was told by the store I ordered it from that I wouldn't get it until around the 15th.. I'll definitely post my impressions once I get mine.

I am looking for a scaler primarily for converting 480i from an oppo dvd player to 768 native resolution for my panasonic plasma 50ph9uk. Can the Genfen HTS do this?

I believe the 9UK is only able to accept native resolution (1:1 map) via DVI.

I see the Genfen "Mate" has DVI in/out. Would this model work? Would I lose anything not going with HDMI?

I am also considering the DVDO Iscan hd+ and Lumagen VisionHDP. They are about 1.5 to 2 times the price. How do you think the Genfen will compare?

Thanks
Rich

I have one on order but was told by the store I ordered it from that I wouldn't get it until around the 15th.. I'll definitely post my impressions once I get mine.

3 more days to go !!!!!

I can't wait to get this if it works perfectly!!!

I am looking for a scaler primarily for converting 480i from an oppo dvd player to 768 native resolution for my panasonic plasma 50ph9uk. Can the Genfen HTS do this?

I believe the 9UK is only able to accept native resolution (1:1 map) via DVI.

It is supposed to be able to scale to the native resolution of the display it is connected to. So via DVI on your set it should be able to do this.

I see the Gefen "Mate" has DVI in/out. Would this model work? Would I lose anything not going with HDMI?

It should work and there should not any degradation in video quality.

I am also considering the DVDO Iscan hd+ and Lumagen VisionHDP. They are about 1.5 to 2 times the price. How do you think the Genfen will compare?

I've never used either product, but one would likely assume that they are better given the price difference. That's why the Gefen is an interesting product; it is supposed to do things that were previously only seen in much more expensive products. Obviously we won't know for sure how good it is until objective tests are run.

It's 15th now!!!! any sign of delivery??

Curious to see how this will perform. I'm wondering if it will do a better job than the scaler in my 1080P Westinghouse. What scaling chip is the Gefen using?

It's 15th now!!!! any sign of delivery??

No.. :(

I check everyday. The good news is that it is no longer listed as a pre-order on Gefen's site..

..any day now.

huh? still no news? their forums seems down. yah, the (pre-order) is taken off from the HT Scaler, but I'm more into the plus version as most of my input is through PAL converted to S-video or RCA.

I called Gefen today (Friday) and the person I talked with said the Home Theater Scaler (Not the Plus model) was on the market to purchased.. He also told me the Plus model might be for sale in a month or two, he was not sure..

What is the plus model?

Oh I see. The Plus Version adds composite or SVideo in lieu of a component input. For $50 more. I'm just curious how it handles deinterlacing from 1080i sources. I'm hoping it does it properly since the Westinghouse set I just bought doesn't. Although I only have two HDMI sources I'm using with so I can get the lower cost version.

I've been looking for a cheap scaler/deinterlacer/switcher and this would suit my needs perfectly... IF the performance is halfway decent.

I'm sorely tempted to grab one of these and a DVI card for my Panny 8UK so I can get a little native rate action happening, but I'm really not too keen on playing the guinea pig. I just wish we knew a little bit more about the unit, like what chip it uses for processing....

EDIT: Whoops. I guess I should have read this thread more carefully -- I would have learned that it uses an mStar chip.

After a bit more reading, I've discovered that the unit doesn't have discrete input selection. That's pretty much a deal breaker for me. Too bad. :(

EDIT: Although... if turning the unit off and on resets it to the first input, I could still automate the input selection. It just wouldn't be so elegant.

what do you mean by "discrete input selection"?

the non plus version got minor mechanical design problem, they are giving away free toslink cable to rectify it :D

what do you mean by "discrete input selection"?
The remote doesn't have separate buttons (and IR codes) for going directly to the input you want. Instead, the remote has a single input selection button that you have to press repeatedly to cycle through the inputs until you come to the one you want.

oh i see.....maybe you can try customizing your own remote control? :D

but you may feedback this to Gefen so that other customers can benefit in the future! :D

I'll only have two HDMI inpuits, so this is no big deal for me. It's not for my main HD set so it will work for me. Besides I'm already doing the same thing with an HDMI switch to cycle between two HDMI inputs. This Westinghouse has two DVI inputs but only one HDMI. Which doesn't make sense to me, but I might just have to go ahead and order the Gefen to try it out. I guess when I sell one of my HR10-250 units, it should cover the price of the Gefen. I think I'll order it today. My AMEX just started a new cycle so any purchases made now won't be due until the middle of MAy. What is the recommened vendor to purchase the Gefen from? Does AVS sell the Gefen scaler?

I also wish the HTS had more stretch modes. It sounds like the only option when watching 4:3 material is a full, linear stretch. A stretch mode that maintains the correct geometry in the middle and stretches progressively more toward the sides would be a nice addition.

If the HTS could do firmware updates I'd be much more willing to jump on board, but it sounds like it is a closed box as it is. If there are any bugs, you're pretty much stuck with them.

The manual lists "panscan" and "full" as scaling choices. I'll bet one of these does the non-linear stretch you are referring to.

The remote doesn't have separate buttons (and IR codes) for going directly to the input you want. Instead, the remote has a single input selection button that you have to press repeatedly to cycle through the inputs until you come to the one you want.It may not have to have seperate buttons to have seperate IR codes. There's one video switcher (joytech or psyclone?) whose remote didn't have seperate input buttons but it's codes could be learned by cycling through them one by one, where every "click up" or down would be assigned a different button on the learning remote (make sense?).

Now i wouldn't risk purchasing the gefen unit based upon this speculation but perhaps someone can test this out for us to see if it works :)

can anybody post some screen capture samples? especially the b4 and after difference?

Has anybody actually purchased one of these yet ? I was looking to purchase this and just noticed the last thread entry was a good while ago. Any input would be greatly appreciated

I pre-ordered mine. :) But I got the "Available In about about two weeks" line... :(

Well - I received my HT Scaler today - so what do you guys want to know? Keep in mind I am pretty noobish when it comes to this stuff so keep the technical jargon to a minimum.

In the box was a remote control (not very good quality, but functional) a 6ft HDMI cable and 2 6ft coax cables.

I have it hooked up to a Panasonic AX100 projector on a 150 inch screen with a Motorolla HD set top box for cable (component in) and a Toshiba HD-DVD player (HDMI). I set the Gefen to native resolution mode which should have resulted in a 720p image for the Panasonic to project but I got a 1080i image output instead - kind of weird!

Only 5 minutes of viewing tonight but early impressions indicate a slightly better picture for SD TV but nothing exceptional. I have never owned or seen a VP in action before so i really dont know what to expect. Will try more tomorrow night.

I would like to find out if the HT Scaler can perform a vertical strech on a signal.

This would be for a Constant Height Theater where I need to stretch a 16x9 movie vertically to remove the black bars and have the actual movie use the full panel of the projector. (I then use my anamorphic lens to strech the picture horizontally)

Thanks.

Thanks for helping, brundall! Hope the HTS works out for you.

Among other things, I'm curious to know if you can save different settings (color, brightness, contrast, stretch, etc.) for each input, or is there only one settings profile that is used for ALL inputs?

Is there horizontal streching as well?

Well - I received my HT Scaler today - so what do you guys want to know? Keep in mind I am pretty noobish when it comes to this stuff so keep the technical jargon to a minimum.

In the box was a remote control (not very good quality, but functional) a 6ft HDMI cable and 2 6ft coax cables.

I have it hooked up to a Panasonic AX100 projector on a 150 inch screen with a Motorolla HD set top box for cable (component in) and a Toshiba HD-DVD player (HDMI). I set the Gefen to native resolution mode which should have resulted in a 720p image for the Panasonic to project but I got a 1080i image output instead - kind of weird!

Only 5 minutes of viewing tonight but early impressions indicate a slightly better picture for SD TV but nothing exceptional. I have never owned or seen a VP in action before so i really dont know what to expect. Will try more tomorrow night.

Link to Gefen HTS manual (http://www.gefen.com/pdf/EXT-HOMETS.pdf)

Well - I received my HT Scaler today - so what do you guys want to know? Keep in mind I am pretty noobish when it comes to this stuff so keep the technical jargon to a minimum.

In the box was a remote control (not very good quality, but functional) a 6ft HDMI cable and 2 6ft coax cables.

I have it hooked up to a Panasonic AX100 projector on a 150 inch screen with a Motorolla HD set top box for cable (component in) and a Toshiba HD-DVD player (HDMI). I set the Gefen to native resolution mode which should have resulted in a 720p image for the Panasonic to project but I got a 1080i image output instead - kind of weird!

Only 5 minutes of viewing tonight but early impressions indicate a slightly better picture for SD TV but nothing exceptional. I have never owned or seen a VP in action before so i really dont know what to expect. Will try more tomorrow night.
So what were your results after using the Gefen HTS?

can you guys post some screen capture of the before and after image for using this scaler? especially the 480i SD :)

The manual is a little underwhelming with its detail on aspect ratios.

Brundall could you test the options for us please. What the CIH fans will be hoping for is a letterbox film to be stretched vertically to lose the black bars. I think the equivalent function is called V Fit on your AX100.

In the box was a remote control (not very good quality, but functional)



I think 'barely functional' is a better description. I have to be very precise with pressing the buttons and pointing the remote to get it to work at all.

On a more positive note, for those that were worried about having to live with any potential bugs forever, it turns out the unit's firmware is sort of upgradeable.

I discovered a bug with the scaler not remembering its vertical and horizontal positioning changes when the input resolution is changed. The Gefen folks were able to verify the bug and are providing a fix. The firmware is flashed on a socketed chip, and they are sending out a replacement.

All in all, for $349, its a decent box, although limited in it's functionality. There are no custom output resolutions or aspect ratios. It also doesn't 'remember' an aspect ratio for each input resolution, so you can't automatically flip betweeb 4x3 for SD and 16x9 for HD.

I haven't had a chance to run it through any de-interlacing torture tests, so I can't comment on that.

Yes - on further use the remote appears to be pretty bad. I havn't been able to find any way to stretch an image vertically either - sorry to all you folks wanting that feature.

SD quality has improved slightly for me (cable), no diff in HD or DVD quality - then again I already have a good upconverting HD-DVD player so that was to be expected. I feel better in my mind that all SD feeds are now in 1080i60 but that is probably more of a placebo effect!


By the way the colour of the lights on the front of the Gefen are blue if that makes a diff to anyone.

brundal, would you mind sharing some pictures of your b4 and after SD feeds? How much better is it? Are you using Plasma or LCD?

So was It worth It, and Is It worth keeping?

brundal, would you mind sharing some pictures of your b4 and after SD feeds? How much better is it? Are you using Plasma or LCD?

Screenshots are worthless. You can't judge picture quality of anything from a screenshot, at best you can use close-up shots to show specific issues, like SDE, convergence etc, but as a basis of evaluating performance, it's useless - especially in the case of a video processor, where much of the difference is how it handles de-interlacing in moving pictures. I don't know how to take screenshots of moving pictures...?

I have it hooked up to a Panasonic AX100 projector on a 150 inch screen with a Motorolla HD set top box for cable (component in) and a Toshiba HD-DVD player (HDMI). I set the Gefen to native resolution mode which should have resulted in a 720p image for the Panasonic to project but I got a 1080i image output instead - kind of weird!


If you're upscaling to 1080i, you aren't making full use of your scaler. It's probably due to the fact that most sources will see 1080i as a higher resolution than 720P. In "auto" mode, the scaler will just send out the highest possible resolution, NOT the projector's native resolution. You should be able to choose 720P specifically in the scaler instead (I haven't read the manual yet, but it shouldn't be a problem).

Looking at the manual Page 5, it looks like it has some kind of scaling options - "Letterbox, Panscan, Full".

Maybe Razi or Brundall can check those out and see if it does the scaling us Constant Height folks.

Razi or Brundall- questions:
(1) Brundall noted "not much improvement" with an SD signal. (I have an SD
satellite feed.) Could you be a bit more precise with regard to sharpness, contrast and color rendition? Would it be worth $349 to get the marginal improvement?
(2) I have an old Cinemascope lense with an expansion ratio of exactly 2:1.
(Used in standard theater applications where the film image is compressed 2:1.)
Does the Gefen have any facility for horizontal compression of a full height image by exactly 2:1?
This question relates to the only partial use of the LCD matrix when using "Cinemascope" source material. It is said that you get better results when you use the entire matrix and then expand the image optically. $1000 lenses (such as the Panamorph) exist on the market to do this (I have a limited budget) and will surely work but they have an expansion ratio larger than 2:1. I was hoping to use my existing lense.
Thanks.
Frank

Bummer :( Just found this (http://forum.gefen.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1276) on the Gefen Forums. It applies to both the HT Mate and HT Scaler.

Deal breaker.... Next!

Andy

Brundall noted "not much improvement" with an SD signal. (I have an SD
satellite feed.) Could you be a bit more precise with regard to sharpness, contrast and color rendition? Would it be worth $349 to get the marginal improvement?If the scaler in the set is generally good with the "cleaner" SD signals, probably not. If a decent looking SD DVD looks good on it, it's more the lousy signal that could probably stand to be "cleaned up".

I just got the Elite 1140 plasma, and my SD E* channels look horrible on it. The display is so revealing that it exposes eveything, both bad and good. I'm leaning towards something like the Algolith Flea myself. If you're having a similar issue, and your internal scaler is decent, I think cleaning up all the noise and compression artifacts (like I have - mostly "mosquito" noise) first will be a bigger improvement.

Of course, we're talkin' about $649 more bucks here. But, in my case at least, I think it'd be the better investment. If I could afford their Dragonfly, I'd probably just get that. But that's pretty out of my reach right now.

That certainly gets me an answer to part (2) of my question, but the answer to part (1) is yet to be answered.
Is there any other processor that anyone has seen that will do a better job with improving 480i source material than the Gefen? (By this I mean someone who is actually using the processor.)
It looks like I will have no use for this product either.
Frank

Thanks Rammitinski, that finishes the Gefen for good.
Bear with me for a newbie question. How can a transmitted signal in 480i ever get to 480p, since the "even line" frames and "odd line" frames don't occur at exactly the same time? (I hope the question makes some sense.) Getting to 480p or some pseudo-480p would seem to be the only way to achieve a meaningful improvement.
Frank

I'm leaning towards something like the Algolith Flea myself. If you're having a similar issue, and your internal scaler is decent, I think cleaning up all the noise and compression artifacts (like I have - mostly "mosquito" noise) first will be a bigger improvement.
I feel the same -- my Flea will be arriving by the end of next week. :) I still notice jaggies and the odd bit of combing, however, which is why I'm also on the lookout for a decent, inexpensive deinterlacer. I thought the Gefen might be it, but I'm having serious doubts now.

I feel the same -- my Flea will be arriving by the end of next week. :) I still notice jaggies and the odd bit of combing, however, which is why I'm also on the lookout for a decent, inexpensive deinterlacer. I thought the Gefen might be it, but I'm having serious doubts now.Someone on another thread here earlier today mentioned he uses this:

http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/-Line-Doublers-p-1-c-305.html.

(Let me know how the Flea works out :).)

Do you know which of the items on this page he is referring to?

Where can we pick up the GHefen HTS for that price??

I think 'barely functional' is a better description. I have to be very precise with pressing the buttons and pointing the remote to get it to work at all.

On a more positive note, for those that were worried about having to live with any potential bugs forever, it turns out the unit's firmware is sort of upgradeable.

I discovered a bug with the scaler not remembering its vertical and horizontal positioning changes when the input resolution is changed. The Gefen folks were able to verify the bug and are providing a fix. The firmware is flashed on a socketed chip, and they are sending out a replacement.

All in all, for $349, its a decent box, although limited in it's functionality. There are no custom output resolutions or aspect ratios. It also doesn't 'remember' an aspect ratio for each input resolution, so you can't automatically flip betweeb 4x3 for SD and 16x9 for HD.

I haven't had a chance to run it through any de-interlacing torture tests, so I can't comment on that.

Do you know which of the items on this page he is referring to?The Atlona scaler.

Where can we pick up the GHefen HTS for that price??

Indeed, where ? :o

Thanks Rammitinski, that finishes the Gefen for good.
Bear with me for a newbie question. How can a transmitted signal in 480i ever get to 480p, since the "even line" frames and "odd line" frames don't occur at exactly the same time? (I hope the question makes some sense.) Getting to 480p or some pseudo-480p would seem to be the only way to achieve a meaningful improvement.The majority of the content you see on television is film-sourced, meaning it is actually 480p24 on 480i channels, 720p24 on 720p60 channels, or 1080p24 on 1080i channels.

A 480p24 or 1080p24 source delivered with 480i or 1080i transmission looks like this:

Frame1, Field1
Frame1, Field2
Frame2, Field1
Frame2, Field2
Frame2, Field1
Frame3, Field1
Frame3, Field2
Frame4, Field1
Frame4, Field2
Frame4, Field1

The bolded fields are sent using repeat flags. Only 48 of the 60 fields sent every second by your broadcast/cable/satellite provider are actually unique; the other 12 are sent using flags that tell the decoder to repeat a previous field. As a result, this progressive content actually requires less bandwidth than native 480i60 and 1080i60 video.

As you can see, you can't simply pair each two fields. They don't match. Instead, the display must detect the 3/2 cadence and reconstruct the original 24 progressive frames. This process is known as inverse telecine. It produces an image that is identical to the source. Once this is done, pull-down is applied to repeat the full 720x480p or 1920x1080p frames to match the refresh rate of the display (i.e. 60Hz). At that point, depending on your TV, the image is output directly to the screen, [or] digitally scaled to add overscan, or digitally scaled to fit the panel's resolution. On a display that correctly performs inverse telecine on both SD and HD signals, there will be no difference between the 480i and 480p output from a DVD player and the 1080i and 1080p output from a Blu-ray player.

Most modern displays can detect the 3/2 cadence on 480p24 content flagged as 480i60, but only a minority can do the same with 1080i60 signals. It is more computationally intensive to do this with high-definition, and many display makers skimp on high-def processing to cut costs. On displays that cannot detect the 3/2 cadence necessary to reconstruct the original 1080p frames, they treat the source as video. They either display the signal as 540p (as was the case on older/cheaper displays) without interpolating information to complete the 1080p frame, or they interpolate new information based on adjacent fields to complete the 1080p frame.

Indeed, where ? :o

I believe he's referencing the Gefen HD Mate (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4173) ;)

Does everything (and nothings) the same as the HT Scaler but has DVI instead of HDMI.

Andy

Hello, first time poster here and video processing newb. I was wondering if any of you guys with the HTS had tried downscaling? The reason I ask is that I wanted to use this with my PS3 to scale 1080p Blu Ray movies to 720p since the PS3 doesn't output 720p Blu Ray.

Also, I understand that there is a 1 frame delay with the HTS. One of the things I wanted to do with the HTS is upscale the Wii to 720p and use the XBox 360 over HDMI. Logically I would think that 1 frame wouldn't be noticable, but I thought I would ask the pros here.

I understand that there is a 1 frame delay with the HTS. One of the things I wanted to do with the HTS is upscale the Wii to 720p and use the XBox 360 over HDMI. Logically I would think that 1 frame wouldn't be noticable, but I thought I would ask the pros here.

I use mine for XBOX, XBOX 360, and PS3. I've not noticed any delay at all. It's fine for games. :)

How's the video quality of this compared to something like xrgb3? I'm thinking of getting it for scaling the ps2... interested in some more opinions about delay as well

How's the video quality of this compared to something like xrgb3? I'm thinking of getting it for scaling the ps2... interested in some more opinions about delay as well
I have zero firsthand experience, but most of the feedback on the Gefen forum seems to be negative. Many people are reporting degraded PQ with the HTS.

ouch - no aspect ratio control?

What's an Atlona scaler?

The majority of the content you see on television is film-sourced, meaning it is actually 480p24 on 480i channels, 720p24 on 720p60 channels, or 1080p24 on 1080i channels.

A 480p24 or 1080p24 source delivered with 480i or 1080i transmission looks like this:

Frame1, Field1
Frame1, Field2
Frame2, Field1
Frame2, Field2
Frame2, Field1
Frame3, Field1
Frame3, Field2
Frame4, Field1
Frame4, Field2
Frame4, Field1

The bolded fields are sent using repeat flags. Only 48 of the 60 fields sent every second by your broadcast/cable/satellite provider are actually unique; the other 12 are sent using flags that tell the decoder to repeat a previous field. As a result, this progressive content actually requires less bandwidth than native 480i60 and 1080i60 video.

As you can see, you can't simply pair each two fields. They don't match. Instead, the display must detect the 3/2 cadence and reconstruct the original 24 progressive frames. This process is known as inverse telecine. It produces an image that is identical to the source. Once this is done, pull-down is applied to repeat the full 720x480p or 1920x1080p frames to match the refresh rate of the display (i.e. 60Hz). At that point, depending on your TV, the image is output directly to the screen, [or] digitally scaled to add overscan, or digitally scaled to fit the panel's resolution. On a display that correctly performs inverse telecine on both SD and HD signals, there will be no difference between the 480i and 480p output from a DVD player and the 1080i and 1080p output from a Blu-ray player.

Most modern displays can detect the 3/2 cadence on 480p24 content flagged as 480i60, but only a minority can do the same with 1080i60 signals. It is more computationally intensive to do this with high-definition, and many display makers skimp on high-def processing to cut costs. On displays that cannot detect the 3/2 cadence necessary to reconstruct the original 1080p frames, they treat the source as video. They either display the signal as 540p (as was the case on older/cheaper displays) without interpolating information to complete the 1080p frame, or they interpolate new information based on adjacent fields to complete the 1080p frame.


BFDTV:
Thanks for this most complete reply. I am trying mightily to understand the essence of it.
A few questions:
(1) Whenever fields are repeated as they are in this example or in any other way, is that what the term "progressive" refers to?
(2) I assume "3/2 cadence" refers somehow to the ratio of total to unique fields,
but I would think that would be 5/4. Please explain.
I understand that the reconstructive "Inverse Telecine" is therefore sort of a "backing up" process, after which "pull-down" occurs, but I may need an example to understand exactly how pull-down works and exactly what the frame/field configuration is afterwards.
(3) How can there be "no difference between the 480i and 480p output from a DVD player and the 1080i and 1080p output from a Blu-ray player" at any time?
In what way "no difference?"
I may have other questions but I need to assimilate the answers to these
first.
Thank you again for your time.
Frank

I have zero firsthand experience, but most of the feedback on the Gefen forum seems to be negative. Many people are reporting degraded PQ with the HTS.

Anyone have some idea about their other scaler the HD Mate? It's the one with the DVI, curious if it uses the same scaling chip. I was really hoping this thing would be good.

Can someone explain why the Altlona never seems to get anywhere near as much "press" as the Gefen? Obviously, the Gefen must be felt to be superior
but I don't understand why.

I'm pretty sure Gefen was just first to market and/or did a better job marketing themselves.

From what I can tell, many Atlona and Gefen products are just re-branded versions of the same thing, these scalers included. I once stumbled upon the Web site of what I believed to be the OEM, but I can't find it anymore.

Im really interest in this scaler, I did some research in the gefen forum and a lot of the people complaining about the scaler have never used another scaler before and dont seem to understand how a picture can change after deinterlacing.


some of the folks complaining are also not using projectors, so I believe there may be a more positive result with front projectors.

the biggest complaint is that the switch from interlace mode to progressive, darkens the picture. the people complaining are people that have their set calibrated with interlace signals, and I read a short review that once the user calibrated the image to the new progressive signal picture was improved.


not sure about 1080p, since I use a panny 900u, but I do notice a difference in black levels when I feed the projector a 1080i image and then switch to 720p. I get much better motion and darker image, which IMO looks better than sending the projector a 1080i image.

Im lookinh for an inexpensive scaler to scale my hd cable and ps3 down to 720p. hopefully this is the one Im looking for?

I "was" interested in this product until I read the reviews on thier forum and this one. I checked out the "DVDO iScan VP20" and it seems to be more of what I want. More being at least one more HDMI port.

So, money aside, can anyone please put these two items up against each other and let me know of any draw backs to the VP20? I have HD-DVR, PS3, HD-DVD and a 47" 1080p LCD.

Putting money back into the picture, is the deinterlacing add-on card really worth the $500? Going from $450 to $1,300+$500 (B&H Photo) is hard to justify (for me anyway).

Even those who have the most resent firmware update are still complaining that 1080i looks worse via the HTS then it does going directly to thier TV. Add the crap remote it comes with and $450 just doesn't seem worth the $450.

Thanks everyone!

I "was" interested in this product until I read the reviews on thier forum and this one. I checked out the "DVDO iScan VP20" and it seems to be more of what I want. More being at least one more HDMI port.

So, money aside, can anyone please put these two items up against each other and let me know of any draw backs to the VP20? I have HD-DVR, PS3, HD-DVD and a 47" 1080p LCD.

Putting money back into the picture, is the deinterlacing add-on card really worth the $500? Going from $450 to $1,300+$500 (B&H Photo) is hard to justify (for me anyway).

Even those who have the most resent firmware update are still complaining that 1080i looks worse via the HTS then it does going directly to thier TV. Add the crap remote it comes with and $450 just doesn't seem worth the $450.

Thanks everyone!

Drawbacks to the VP20 are that it doesn't accept a 1080P input. Otherwise it's like the VP30 and the one I had for 10 months was excellent. I replaced it with a VP50.

SO peeple do have the new firmware on their Gefen boxes? I couldn't find any posts in the Gefen forum yet about people with the new firmware whne I checked recently. FOr what I need for my 37" 1080P Westinghouse, my choices would be the Gefen, Altona, or more than double the price get the VP20. I don't think I want to spend that much. I just want to get something that deinterlaces 1080i better than my Westinghouse.
And I can't find any info on the Altona scaler. I would like to get the Gefen if shwos some improvement.

Drawbacks to the VP50 are that it doesn't accept a 1080P input

Doesn't the latest firmware update include this ability? Thought there was a recent thread about this.

Drawbacks to the VP50 are that it doesn't accept a 1080P input.

To be clear, the VP50 does not accept a 1080p component or RGBHV signal. This is a hardware limitation. The VP50 DOES accept 1080p on the HDMI inputs.

To be clear, the VP50 does not accept a 1080p component or RGBHV signal. This is a hardware limitation. The VP50 DOES accept 1080p on the HDMI inputs.

Sorry I mis typed. I meant to type VP20. I use my VP50 with a 1080P input from the PS3.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I need 1080p so $2,695.00 for the VP50 is well out of my range. My TV didn't cost that much!

I guess I have to wait for the Gefen to ship up. The only Altona switches I can find, only switch video. I'm interested in switching audio as well.

Found something pretty interesting about the HTS.... cant post a link until i get 5 posts under my belt though.

grr.....

Anyone used this device?

Sorry for the posts....

Ok, here is the post that I found on the gefen support forums dealing with the problems people have been having regarding the HTS(Home Theater Scaler). I think I will wait on buying it until the bugs are worked out.

http://forum.gefen.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2014

Here is another link that has quite a few posts about the HTS.

http://forum.gefen.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=10

Its not looking good. From what I have been reading, most users are having just about the same issues. The SD performance is marginal, and the HD performance has been degraded somewhat. To me, that doesn't warrant the purchase of the unit. Sounds like they have a serious problem on their hand. Although, there are SOME people that are having good luck with the unit. I think the ratio of people having bad luck to ones that aren't is still like 10:1. I am still very hesitant about it. I did read that they issued a firmware release. But the kicker is, is that you have to send the unit back to Gefen to perform the FW update. Like I said before, until the issues get resolved, I don't think I will purchase one of these units.

I am curious to know if anyone here has one, and what type of experience you have had with it.

It's also important to note that different people expect different things from the unit. That's important to factor that in when "qualifying" individuals reviews.

For me I expect only two things from the unit:

1. To act as a switch. This features seems to work 100%.
2. I want a constant 1080p output so my TV doesn't "freak out" every time I change formats.

There is no such thing as "channel surfing" on my TV with DirecTV as every time the format changes I have to wait a good 4 seconds before I get a picture all while the screen flickers and the audio crackles. Yes, I'm listening to my TV speakers until I get a switch and yes, it SUCKS!

I have no interest in boosting 480 or 720 quality. As long as it looks the same as the source then I'll be happy. For those looking to enhance 480...bad reviews.

So, #1 is good but #2 wont be good until they fix 1080i to 1080p and 1080p to 1080p. A degradation of quality is not acceptable. I need at least "same quality" then I'll be super happy!

So you have one? Did you notice any difference when you hooked it up? As far as picture quality. If so, was the difference good or bad?

No, I do not have one yet. Not until #2 is fixed.

The new firmware version # is 2.2. Good to know to "qualify" future reviews.

I have purchased a Gefen HD Mate Scaler for the purposes of driving an HD signal to a kitchen (under cabinet) "TV."

See, I had a bit of difficulty finding either:

a) a 15" or 17" 16:9 720p TV suitable for under cabinet mount (with either very small or no speakers -- audio will be delivered through whole house audio)

b) a 15" or 17" widescreen 720p (at least) computer monitor with a component in.

What I found was Gateway's 720p 16:9 17" computer monitor with DVI and VGA input. It has a relatively small bezel and no speakers so it fits under my cabinet. Problem is -- no component in. Tried some of the analog component to VGA converters but there was always a problem with over/under scan (junk showing on screen, screen off center, etc) with no way to adjust.

So far, the HD Mate Scaler seems to be working well for this application. The source is a distributed component video (generally 720p) from the S12 from Elan. At this point haven't had a lot of viewing time, as we are not done with the house yet, and therefore are not living there day to day.

I'll report back here when I have more info...

// Dean

How close do you need to be to a 17" screen to see the benefits of HD?

How close do you need to be to a 17" screen to see the benefits of HD?

About 3 or 4 feet for me. Not uncommon in a kitchen work area.

From further than that 480p is fine, but just try to find a 480p computer monitor these days. And if your primary content is 720p, why scale down?

just googled gefen scaler and found it is now available for reasonably less than retail price at a couple reputable sites. The lower price makes it a bit more attractive for what it does. I was thinking since it claims to support scaling to 1920x1200 it would be perfect for a 24" monitor for hooking up consoles and stb and saving space on getting another tv. My girlfriend is getting a 24" for photoshop work before next semester and I was thinking I could use it with the gefen when she is using the 37" westy.

I looked at their forums last night and it seems that all NEW Geffen scalers come with the new firmware, which fixes quite a few problems. Interestingly enough, I don't think I will get one just yet. I think I will look into getting a video processor of some sort, such as the Flea or Mosquito. Not sure which one yet, but I doubt it will be any time soon because I have to rebuild my budget some. LOL!

I'm leaning towards something like the Algolith Flea myself. If you're having a similar issue, and your internal scaler is decent, I think cleaning up all the noise and compression artifacts (like I have - mostly "mosquito" noise) first will be a bigger improvement.

Of course, we're talkin' about $649 more bucks here. But, in my case at least, I think it'd be the better investment. If I could afford their Dragonfly, I'd probably just get that. But that's pretty out of my reach right now.
Don't forget to get a quote on the Flea from Jason Turk of AV Science - Good discount for forum members just in case you or others hadn't thought of that. :)

Don't forget to get a quote on the Flea from Jason Turk of AV Science - Good discount for forum members just in case you or others hadn't thought of that. :)Thanks for that info :).

Yeah, thanks for the info.

I am using a combination of the Gefen HT scaler (2.2 firmware) and the Flea HDMI and am getting pretty decent results overall. I am ouputting crappy cable SD/HD signals through a Panasonic AX100 to a 150inch screen and the diff in pic with and without the processing is significant. Both units combined cost me $1100 (ebay for the flea) and I am very happy.

Will the Gefen HT scaler (2.2 firmware) do propor 1080i to 1080p deinterlacing, not just a bump down to 540p and then scale it up to 1080p afterwards ????

I asked your question in the gefen forum as I own this unit. Can anyone explain to me in less tech terms what this means? Here is the response:

Dual 3-D motion video adaptive de-interlacers with adaptive edge- oriented adaptive algorithm for smooth low-angle edge.

This is not downscaling to 540p, the upscaling to 1080p, it does a true de-interlacing.

Anthony Cortez
Tech. Support
818.884.6294 xt 263
800.545.6900 xt 263
anthony@gefen.com

I have no idea what he is saying. :confused:

I wish we could get a shootout for the 1080i to 1080p deinterlacing against some of the high end units.

Seems a lot of folks want this feature over all others but do not want to shell out the big bucks - is it possible......................

Whatever happened to shootouts? Hardly see them anymore.
This is not downscaling to 540p, the upscaling to 1080p, it does a true de-interlacing.
I'd have to guess this means no conversion to 540p, but no indication on how it deinterlaces 1080i. "true de-interlacing"could mean a number of things.

I asked your question in the gefen forum as I own this unit. Can anyone explain to me in less tech terms what this means? Here is the response:

Dual 3-D motion video adaptive de-interlacers with adaptive edge- oriented adaptive algorithm for smooth low-angle edge.

This is not downscaling to 540p, the upscaling to 1080p, it does a true de-interlacing.

Anthony Cortez
Tech. Support
818.884.6294 xt 263
800.545.6900 xt 263
anthony@gefen.com

He is saying that it does motion adaptive de-interlacers with edge enhancements for video programing, easy right LOL

BASICLY there are two types of programing Film and Video.

BASICLY Film content should have "Flags" that tell the de-interlacer what fields go where this is called 3:2 pull-down

BASICLY Video does not have the "Flags" so the de-interlacer most figure out what goes where. There are a few ways to do this the worst is called a "BOB", 540p scaled to you native res. The "best" is motion adaptive where it "detects" what is moving, what is not and uses different de-interlaceing methods (including BOB) to give you the best image.

Mostly you can't get 1080p from 1080i with video you get some where in-between 540p and 1080p so some scaling most be done in the image and why edge enhancements MAYBE better.

Make sense?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing

So, does this thing actually improve image quality now? I remember the initial reviews were pretty negative

http://www.htguys.com/archive/2007/July27.html

Today's Show:
We have reviewed video scaler/processors in the past that cost between $1000 and $2000. We found that the improvement was quite noticeable on larger screens. But if you had a screen of 50 inches or less the improvement, although noticeable, was not worth the steep price tag. Today, we are taking a look at a scaler that costs $450 and can scale your video, convert your analog sources to digital, and act as a switch box for up to four video sources. We are talking about the Gefen Home Theater Scaler. Its a device that's slightly bigger than a Mac Mini.


Gefen Home Theater Scaler MSRP $450

Features include:
Digital and analog inputs are format converted and scaled
DVI/HDCP/HDMI compliant
Supports digital HD output up to 1080p
Dual 3-D motion video adaptive de-interlacers
Automatic 3:2 pull-down & 2:2 pull-down detection and recovery.
Option to select Audio input from HDMI or TOSlink/SPDIF audio source.
3D noise reduction on analog inputs only.
Digital Audio Delay to match audio/video timing
Less then one frame delay allowing for gaming

Setup:
Connection is straight forward connect the video sources to the scaler and connect the HDMI output to the TV. The Home Theater Scaler comes with a remote control for the basic functions of selecting which input to use and what output resolution to scale to as well as basic GUI navigation (up, down, left, right). From out of the box to picture on the screen was less than ten minutes. The device is easy to use. More on that in a bit.

Performance:
In objective and subjective tests we saw an improvement in picture quality. For the objective tests we used the HQV benchmark DVD and a 720p and 1080p TV. Note: These TVs are well calibrated so we did not use any of the adjustments of the Home Theater Scaler. In general we recommend calibrating the TV and leaving these type of devices in the default settings. But you may find an application where having control over the picture via the scaler is necessary. The Home Theater Scaler lets you adjust the typical settings of Contrast, Brightness, Hue, Saturation, and Sharpness. The scaler also has predefined settings of Vivid, Standard, and Picture settings. There is also a noise reduction setting that can only be used with the component settings. We found off was the best setting here.

The DVD player was setup to output a 480i signal over HDMI. The device passed the Color Bar and Vertical Detail tests with flying colors. It did a very good job with all the Jaggies tests. The Jaggies tests the scalers ability to deal with moving objects. For Detail Enhancement, Noise Reduction, and Motion Adaptive Noise Reduction the Home Theater Scaler did a good job with the test material. The only area where we had a concern was with the 3:2 detection. In the test scene a Moire pattern was visible. Our Oppo upconverting DVD player was able to handle the same scene with no issues. A Moire pattern is the display of an unintended pattern created by displaying several patterns on top of each other. The lasts two tests Mixed 3:2 film with text scroll and crawl were no problems for this device.

For the subjective tests we watched DVDs and Satellite TV. In each case the Home Theater Scaler did a good job with one exception. Upconverting 720p to 1080p showed some issues. When watching baseball on ESPN, the grass showed artifacts that looked similar to macro blocking. When the satellite box was set to the native resolution (without the scaler in the loop) and the TV upconverted the picture to 1080p the macro blocking was less pronounced. When the scaler was moved to the 720p TV for the same baseball game there was no macro blocking. For SD content (480i) off the DirecTV satellite box we saw an improvement over letting the cable box do the upconverting. Our movies played off our DVD player looked good as well.

Odds and Ends:
The menus are easy to navigate with the included remote control (there is no way to do anything with this device without the remote). You toggle between inputs. There is no direct access. Output resolution is the same way but for that you would set it once and pretty much forget it. There is a mode that allows you to set the overscan or underscan on the device. We were hoping that the underscan feature would help out on the Mac Mini. But it works similar to the PC feature of the TV. When underscan is activated there entire desktop of the computer is visible but there is a black border that surrounds the entire desktop. The only thing that is missing on the device are S-Video and RCA inputs for legacy VHS players. If you need S-Video or composite inputs the Home Theater Scaler+ will take care of those needs for $50 more. The component inputs only accept two channel analog audio while the digital inputs will accept digital coax or optical audio. The analog audio is digitized and then added to the video signal on the HDMI output. So you can't get Dolby Digital from a DVD player with analog video unless you run the audio directly to the receiver. The scaler can delay the audio to keep it in sync with the video in this case.

Conclusion:
If you have a Set Top Box, DVD player and a game console but only one HDMI input on your TV, this product will allow you to watch all of them in 720p or 1080p with one cable going to the TV. At the top of the review we mentioned that the $2000 scalers were good investments for people with large screens. We still feel that way about this $450 device. Consider the Home Theater Scaler if you have screen 50 inches or greater.

http://www.htguys.com/archive/2007/July27.html

Today's Show:
We have reviewed video scaler/processors in the past that cost between $1000 and $2000. We found that the improvement was quite noticeable on larger screens. But if you had a screen of 50 inches or less the improvement, although noticeable, was not worth the steep price tag. Today, we are taking a look at a scaler that costs $450 and can scale your video, convert your analog sources to digital, and act as a switch box for up to four video sources. We are talking about the Gefen Home Theater Scaler. Its a device that's slightly bigger than a Mac Mini.


Gefen Home Theater Scaler MSRP $450

Features include:
Digital and analog inputs are format converted and scaled
DVI/HDCP/HDMI compliant
Supports digital HD output up to 1080p
Dual 3-D motion video adaptive de-interlacers
Automatic 3:2 pull-down & 2:2 pull-down detection and recovery.
Option to select Audio input from HDMI or TOSlink/SPDIF audio source.
3D noise reduction on analog inputs only.
Digital Audio Delay to match audio/video timing
Less then one frame delay allowing for gaming

Setup:
Connection is straight forward connect the video sources to the scaler and connect the HDMI output to the TV. The Home Theater Scaler comes with a remote control for the basic functions of selecting which input to use and what output resolution to scale to as well as basic GUI navigation (up, down, left, right). From out of the box to picture on the screen was less than ten minutes. The device is easy to use. More on that in a bit.

Performance:
In objective and subjective tests we saw an improvement in picture quality. For the objective tests we used the HQV benchmark DVD and a 720p and 1080p TV. Note: These TVs are well calibrated so we did not use any of the adjustments of the Home Theater Scaler. In general we recommend calibrating the TV and leaving these type of devices in the default settings. But you may find an application where having control over the picture via the scaler is necessary. The Home Theater Scaler lets you adjust the typical settings of Contrast, Brightness, Hue, Saturation, and Sharpness. The scaler also has predefined settings of Vivid, Standard, and Picture settings. There is also a noise reduction setting that can only be used with the component settings. We found off was the best setting here.

The DVD player was setup to output a 480i signal over HDMI. The device passed the Color Bar and Vertical Detail tests with flying colors. It did a very good job with all the Jaggies tests. The Jaggies tests the scalers ability to deal with moving objects. For Detail Enhancement, Noise Reduction, and Motion Adaptive Noise Reduction the Home Theater Scaler did a good job with the test material. The only area where we had a concern was with the 3:2 detection. In the test scene a Moire pattern was visible. Our Oppo upconverting DVD player was able to handle the same scene with no issues. A Moire pattern is the display of an unintended pattern created by displaying several patterns on top of each other. The lasts two tests Mixed 3:2 film with text scroll and crawl were no problems for this device.

For the subjective tests we watched DVDs and Satellite TV. In each case the Home Theater Scaler did a good job with one exception. Upconverting 720p to 1080p showed some issues. When watching baseball on ESPN, the grass showed artifacts that looked similar to macro blocking. When the satellite box was set to the native resolution (without the scaler in the loop) and the TV upconverted the picture to 1080p the macro blocking was less pronounced. When the scaler was moved to the 720p TV for the same baseball game there was no macro blocking. For SD content (480i) off the DirecTV satellite box we saw an improvement over letting the cable box do the upconverting. Our movies played off our DVD player looked good as well.

Odds and Ends:
The menus are easy to navigate with the included remote control (there is no way to do anything with this device without the remote). You toggle between inputs. There is no direct access. Output resolution is the same way but for that you would set it once and pretty much forget it. There is a mode that allows you to set the overscan or underscan on the device. We were hoping that the underscan feature would help out on the Mac Mini. But it works similar to the PC feature of the TV. When underscan is activated there entire desktop of the computer is visible but there is a black border that surrounds the entire desktop. The only thing that is missing on the device are S-Video and RCA inputs for legacy VHS players. If you need S-Video or composite inputs the Home Theater Scaler+ will take care of those needs for $50 more. The component inputs only accept two channel analog audio while the digital inputs will accept digital coax or optical audio. The analog audio is digitized and then added to the video signal on the HDMI output. So you can't get Dolby Digital from a DVD player with analog video unless you run the audio directly to the receiver. The scaler can delay the audio to keep it in sync with the video in this case.

Conclusion:
If you have a Set Top Box, DVD player and a game console but only one HDMI input on your TV, this product will allow you to watch all of them in 720p or 1080p with one cable going to the TV. At the top of the review we mentioned that the $2000 scalers were good investments for people with large screens. We still feel that way about this $450 device. Consider the Home Theater Scaler if you have screen 50 inches or greater.

I just ordered the Gefen Home Theater Scaler and will give it a try. I have a 57" RP CRT that downcoverts 1080i to 480p. For this reason my Dish STB is set to 1080i, but I've never been real happy with 720p channels. I'm curious as to whether or not this device will be any better converting 720p to 1080i. I know my TV does a much better job with converting 480i signals (but not sure exactly what resolution it displays them at) than the STB does converting then to 1080i. So I'm hoping I'll see some benefit with 720p to 1080i using the Gefen.

If not, I'll just return it. I'm not ready to shell out $1000+ for a processor for this TV.

Well - I received my HT Scaler today - so what do you guys want to know? Keep in mind I am pretty noobish when it comes to this stuff so keep the technical jargon to a minimum.

Will it convert a 480p component signal into 720p HDMI or component? It's a bit pricey but could do for a project I'm working on.

I'm curious as to whether or not this device will be any better converting 720p to 1080i than my Dish ViP622 .

Nope, pretty much the same, maybe slightly worse. I'm going to return mine.

I just ordered the HTS to use with my 37" Westinghouse. It doesn't work very well with 1080i material when it has to deinterlace and you get ghosting. It doesn't have that problem with 720P or 1080P material so my plan is to use the HTS so I can always feed the Westinghouse 1080P. Hopefully it will work well enough. I don't use the set for critical viewing but i do notice the loss in resolution if I have to scale down 1080i to 720P. Straight 1080i has more detail but then it has the ghosting so hopefully the HTS will be what I need.

aaronwt,

Did you get FW 4.0 update?

My prediction is you will still get ghosting by nicely "upconverted" to 1080p and fed to your Westinghouse.

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if this scanner will output in 1360x768.

My problem is that I have an LG 37lb4d LCD which has a terrible built in scanner. Things work fine if the video source is outputting exactly in the television's native resolution. The XBOX 360, for example, can output in 1360x768 and there is no lag when I play games. However, there is a substantial delay with something like the Wii in 480p. I was hoping to use this scaler to convert the Wii signal to my native resolution. That way the television's scanner won't have to slow things down. By the way, I have fiddled with the television's settings and have not been able to reduce the 480p lag.

So, does anyone have experience with the Geffen Home Theater Scaler? Will it output in 1360x768 (or 1366x768)? I am confused because the online manual does not list this resolution for output. However, the Cnet page for the GHTS suggests that it can output in 1360x768. Thanks for the help!

is the firmware upgradeable by ourselves?

aaronwt,

Did you get FW 4.0 update?

My prediction is you will still get ghosting by nicely "upconverted" to 1080p and fed to your Westinghouse.
No, the ghosting is gone when I feed it 1080P60. It's only there if I feed it 1080i. It's fine with 720P and 1080P.

hi guys, I'm wondering if you can underscan (not JustScan aka 100% Scan) the source at a specific percentage. I need this option to offset my 5084 which always overscan anything at 4:3 output.

While feeding SD sources, does the output via HDMI having 2 side bars (can we change the side bar color?) or 100% stretch to its fullest? which is 16:9? Or is there a specific ratio we could choose too?

Does the HDMI out contains audio too?

I have some interest in this unit for my SD cable. I have a 50" Samsung HP-S5053 plasma. The scaler in my TV is fine, I can live with that. However, there is so much noise around the outline of objects that SD cable is almost unbearable to watch. Mosquito noise? My TV's Noise Reduction does nothing visible at all, and DNIe does so much processing, I just leave it off. I have Charter Digital cable. Mainly I want this box as a deinterlacer and noise reduction and output atleast 480p. It seems it can also output 1360x768? My TV is native 1366x768.

So really, how would this work for me? Is the noise reduction worth mentioning? Does it do a solid job of deinterlacing?

Again, I really don't care about it's upscaling, I could live with my TV's scaling, it's not bad at all. 480p works for me.

Thanks.

Plasma cannot be 1366x768, it has to be 1365x768.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-hp-s5053/4507-6482_7-31628177.html

I have some interest in this unit for my SD cable. I have a 50" Samsung HP-S5053 plasma. The scaler in my TV is fine, I can live with that. However, there is so much noise around the outline of objects that SD cable is almost unbearable to watch. Mosquito noise? My TV's Noise Reduction does nothing visible at all, and DNIe does so much processing, I just leave it off. I have Charter Digital cable. Mainly I want this box as a deinterlacer and noise reduction and output atleast 480p. It seems it can also output 1360x768? My TV is native 1366x768.

So really, how would this work for me? Is the noise reduction worth mentioning? Does it do a solid job of deinterlacing?

Again, I really don't care about it's upscaling, I could live with my TV's scaling, it's not bad at all. 480p works for me.

Thanks.

Anybody have any experience that could help me out?

Are you referring to the new GefenTV Scaler Pro coming out this summer? If so, no one has seen it in action yet, so it's impossible to comment on its performance. The Gefen Home Theater Scaler, which is the subject of this thread, is a different animal altogether and has no noise reduction capabilities.

It says on the site "3D noise reduction on analog inputs only."

I am referring to the Home Theater Scaler. I am assuming I could send a 480i signal to the scaler via component, have the scaler deinterlace and do noise reduction, and be sent out 480p over HDMI?

It would be equivalent to your TV's built-in analog noise reduction -- virtually worthless. It would certainly have zero effect on the digital compression artifacts (i.e., mosquito noise) that you are seeing. Something like an Algolith Flea would be more appropriate.

hmm, ok. Thank you very much for your input.

hi guys, I loan a set from a friend see try to see how good is its SD->1080p capability.

To my surprise, my samsung 50" 5084 is so much superior than the HTS......

is it because it's quite an old products, so recent technologies that comes with the Plasma TV has bypass HTS's capability?

I was grateful that I didn't go ahead to grab a unit and regret for buying the wrong thing.... :(

Ya i am disappointed in mine also. I found the menus so hard to read and my receiver does a better job at upscaling than this unit.