Anybody have an opinion on using a PS3 as a SACD player? My understanding is that it will only have analog stereo outputs. Does this mean that you won't be able to use it as a multi-channel SACD player?

it will be able to play Multi channel audio through the HDMI output.

Kev

it will be able to play Multi channel audio through the HDMI output.

Kev
What about optical? Or is there no Optical out? (haven't followed the PS3 too much)

Also...not to sound like an idiot, but which format had Pink Floyd, again? SACD or DVD-A?

Sacd

Sacd

But the DVD-A is "supposedly" better.

But the DVD-A is "supposedly" better.
Ehh, as long as it's better than stereo CD's, I'm happy. Point: Pink Floyd in HiFi :)

This is another excuse to keep a PS3 (first one: Blu-Ray. Reason for wanting it: MGS4)

I don't think there is an optical out on the PS3.

I don't think there is an optical out on the PS3.
And whether there is or not, you can't send SACD (or DVD-A, for that matter) through it.

HDMI or 5.1 Analog for SACD/DV-A

HDMI or 5.1 Analog for SACD/DV-A

That's what I thought. So, I guess it's stereo only until I buy a reciever with HDMI 1.3 and an SACD decoder. Cheaper just to buy a dedicated SACD player.

I'm guessing it will encode DSD to PCM over the optical output (Yes it does have one).

no, it's not Stereo only. The HDMI output should feed all 5.1 channels on SACD's.

Kevin

Sure, if you have a reciever which will decode DSD from an HDMI port.
So I'm assuming that I'm stuck with stereo only from the analog outs.

no, it's not Stereo only. The HDMI output should feed all 5.1 channels on SACD's.

Kevin

I see what you're saying. I don't even know if there are normal l/r RCA outs on the PS3. It's a weird "Multi a/v" interface. I haven't seen a close up of it yet.

Kev

Looks like the "multi a/v" interface" breaks out into stereo RCA and composite video.

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&thread.id=715674


I see what you're saying. I don't even know if there are
normal l/r RCA outs on the PS3. It's a weird "Multi a/v" interface. I haven't seen a close up of it yet.

Kev

Using the MultiOut on the PS3, you can get two-channel stereo off your SACD.

Using HDMI, you have the option of listening to either two-channel or multichannel off your SACD. Out of that option, you can choose to let the PS3 perform the DSD-to-LPCM conversion or let it pass through the DSD bistream to a DSD-decoding receiver/pre-amp.

It doesn't have to be HDMI 1.3. HDMI 1.2 is enough to pass the DSD bitstream and decoded LPCM. Except for not having DVD-Audio capability, the PS3 is quite versatile. If you're in the market for a new receiver, look into the Panasonic SA-XR57; this 7.1 channel, HDMI receiver's starting price is at US$280 online.


fuad

Using HDMI, you have the option of listening to either two-channel or multichannel off your SACD. Out of that option, you can choose to let the PS3 perform the DSD-to-LPCM conversion or let it pass through the DSD bistream to a DSD-decoding receiver/pre-amp.

It doesn't have to be HDMI 1.3. HDMI 1.2 is enough to pass the DSD bitstream and decoded LPCM.
fuad

To clarify, "let (the Playstation 3) pass through the DSD bistream to a DSD-decoding receiver/pre-amp" requires a receiver with a HDMI 1.2 input, such as a few recent Marantz, Pioneer, and Yamaha models.

(Since the Playstation 3 is the first HDMI 1.3 player, and there have been no HDMI 1.2 players, the first person to do this with the Playstation 3 will be the first to send a DSD bitstream over an HDMI connection. If life were fair, Sony would give out some kind of prize for this, but they haven't promised any :p )

"you can choose to let the PS3 perform the DSD-to-LPCM conversion" requires a receiver with a HDMI 1.1 input. At this date, there are many more (and less expensive) HDMI 1.1 than HDMI 1.2 receivers.

But the DVD-A is "supposedly" better.

Not quite. DVD-Audio may be better than regular audio CD (thanks to the higher sampling frequency and more bits per sample) but it inherited all the disadvantages of PCM encoding/decoding, while SACD uses the far more transparent DSD (Direct Stream Digital).

What's more, there are about 100 DVD-Audio titles available compared to over 4,000 on SACD.

Anyway, what's still not clear to me (following conflicting information above): Is the SACD multi-channel output on PS3's HDMI port always PCM (downconverted from DSD) or is there an option in the setup menu for configuring the machine to stream pure DSD?

I'm hoping the DSD-to-PCM conversion is for feeding the optical output only (and an *option* for feeding receivers with HDMI input that can handle PCM but not DSD) or for feeding an internal D/A converter at worst.

More discussion in thread 9089325 (sorry, it wouldn't let me post the URL)

As far as I'm aware it currently only outputs PCM on HDMI. People with DSD-capable receivers have said it still sends PCM, and there's no option. Whether this could be changed in future firmware depends on whether it has a DSD-capable HDMI transmitter with its DSD inputs connected.

I don't think you'll find it outputting SACD on its optical; no box has ever done that - it's against the rules to send enencrypted digital output from SACD, even at low resolution.

(And leaving aside the DVD-Audio/SACD quality arguments, which are pointless, there are probably about 750 DVD-Audios around. And the vast majority of SACDs are classical, meaning its numerical advantage largely vanishes if you're not a classical person. Plus there are DVD-Audio car players - no SACD car players, for some reason.)

Sure, if you have a reciever which will decode DSD from an HDMI port.
So I'm assuming that I'm stuck with stereo only from the analog outs.
No, because the PS3 doesn't output DSD, it outputs PCM - currently at 88.2kHz, and 176.4kHz in a future update. You just need HDMI 1.1. What's annoying is that it doesn't even have a DSD option.

...............
What's more, there are about 100 DVD-Audio titles available compared to over 4,000 on SACD.
.......................

:confused:

[QUOTE=T7T]Not quite. DVD-Audio may be better than regular audio CD (thanks to the higher sampling frequency and more bits per sample) but it inherited all the disadvantages of PCM encoding/decoding, while SACD uses the far more transparent DSD (Direct Stream Digital).

What's more, there are about 100 DVD-Audio titles available compared to over 4,000 on SACD.

QUOTE]

First of all, locomo was obviously referring to Dark Side of the Moon specifically when he said "the DVD-A is 'supposedly' better," not the format in general. He was referring to the "unofficial" version of DSOTM floating around on the Internet in DVD-A format.

Secondly, as others have stated, there are way more than 100 DVD-A's out there. I personally own more than 100 and there are plenty out there that I don't own.

Lastly, as an owner of both SACD and DVD-A formats, I love them both and hope the releases continue on both sides. As someone else said, arguing about which one is better is pointless.

No, because the PS3 doesn't output DSD, it outputs PCM - currently at 88.2kHz, and 176.4kHz in a future update. You just need HDMI 1.1. What's annoying is that it doesn't even have a DSD option.I can confirm that the PS3 outputs SACDs at 176khz PCM with Firmware v1.30. I think my receiver (Sony STRDG1000) is HDMI 1.2, so when I get home, I'll see if I can set HDMI output to bitstream, and let you know what happens. For more on the PS3 and this receiver, see my effusive post from the Future-Proof HDMI Receivers thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9107902&&#post9107902).

First of all, locomo was obviously referring to Dark Side of the Moon specifically when he said "the DVD-A is 'supposedly' better," not the format in general. He was referring to the "unofficial" version of DSOTM floating around on the Internet in DVD-A format.

DSotM was issued on DVD-A? I wasn't aware. How did they do that? Is it a conversion of the SACD? I suppose not, because then the resulting disc could not be better, obviously. Is it a conversion of some older quad mix perhaps?

there are probably about 750 DVD-Audios around.

Secondly, as others have stated, there are way more than 100 DVD-A's out there. I personally own more than 100 and there are plenty out there that I don't own.

Lastly, as an owner of both SACD and DVD-A formats, I love them both and hope the releases continue on both sides. As someone else said, arguing about which one is better is pointless.

Wow. Is there a comprehensive overview somewhere on the web, like there is for SACD?

I'll stop the SACD vs DVD-A argument here. I misinterpreted the above comment and although given a choice I'd prefer SACD I'm pragmatic enough to buy DVD-A when SACD is not available, like for instance with the Beatles' Love album.

DSotM was issued on DVD-A? I wasn't aware. How did they do that? Is it a conversion of the SACD? I suppose not, because then the resulting disc could not be better, obviously. Is it a conversion of some older quad mix perhaps?


Look for the big thread further down the page about the DVD-A of DSOTM. Get a hold of it if you can. It's outstanding.

I've listened to SACDs of Pink Floyd's DSOTM, Depeche Mode's "Violator", Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms" (latter two are UK imports) on my PS3. Sound quality was just as good as my Pioneer SACD player, maybe even a tad better actually.

Can anyone recommend some budget friendly SACD receiver/speaker setups that are compatible with the PS3 (and available in Canada)?

I'll stop the SACD vs DVD-A argument here. I misinterpreted the above comment and although given a choice I'd prefer SACD I'm pragmatic enough to buy DVD-A when SACD is not available, like for instance with the Beatles' Love album.

If you like classical music or jazz you will buy many more SACD than DVD-A since most new such releases are on SACD.

I for one can't hear the difference between the SACD layer via analog Vs. the regular cd layer on the SACD with my PS3. It would be nice if future firmware updates allowed multi-channel SACD over optical....I love my current Onkyo TX-SR700 receiver And I don't want to drop cash for a new one just so I can hear 5.1 with SACD.

Optical (and digital coax for that matter) doesn't have enough bandwith for 5.1 SACD or DVD-A.

Optical (and digital coax for that matter) doesn't have enough bandwith for 5.1 SACD or DVD-A.

I thought it was because of DRM...not bandwith?...... what is the max bandwith of optical?

It's a bandwidth issue. Neither coax nor optical have the bandwidth for uncompressed multichannel sound.

It's partly copy protection. With the amount of processing power in the PS3, they could get multichannel across by encoding it as Dolby Digital or DTS, if they really wanted to. But SACD doesn't permit any sort of unencrypted digital output, except for the CD layer.

Hang on - is Core_2 saying that the PS3 will output the SACD stereo section over optical? Really? At what sample rate? Never seen an SACD player that will do this.

Steely Dan Gaucho sounded fantastic on the PS3. Can't really compare it to my Pioneer player, because I upgraded the receiver for my high def movies and haven't hooked up the Pioneer player to that particular receiver.

I think it's both. DRM for the two channel, and bandwidth (plus DRM) for the multi-channel. Basically I believe optical has enough bandwidth to carry SACD stereo signals, but not enough for multi-channel. However, due to DRM reasons, they have disabled using optical for even the two channel.

It's a bandwidth issue. Neither coax nor optical have the bandwidth for uncompressed multichannel sound.

It is Digital Restriction Management (DRM) ad naseum, nothing else.

So, tell me how you get uncompressed multichannel data up an S/PDIF link? The only way S/PDIF supports multichannel data is as a bitstream, and until recently players didn't have the processor power to compress DTS or Dolby Digital on the fly. And even if they could, it's not the sort of behaviour you want to encourage, given the resulting quality loss.

However, I'm still intrigued by Core_2's statement that the PS3 does output SACD over optical. Is he mistaken?

... However, I'm still intrigued by Core_2's statement that the PS3 does output SACD over optical. Is he mistaken?

Well, Sony disagrees about SACD over optical output. The online manual for the Playstation 3, under "Settings > Sound Settings > Audio Output Settings", states
"*1 Audio from Super Audio CDs cannot be output from the system's digital out (optical) connector. Multi-channel content from Super Audio CDs can only be output from the HDMI OUT connector."
However, most recent SACDs are hybrids, with a standard CD layer, and I expect that the CD layer can be output over optical.

The manual can be reached from this page:
http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/PS3/Manuals

That sound more like what I'd expect.

However, I'm still intrigued by Core_2's statement that the PS3 does output SACD over optical. Is he mistaken?
Yes he is. As posted in the manual it isnt supported, and if you have optical output on, and try to play an SACD, the PS3 will give you an error screen telling you to either chose analog stereo or HDMI for SACD playback.

Having said that does anyone else have crappy quality with Mulitichannel SACD via HDMI with the PS3. Maybe it's the CD I'm using, or my Onkyo 804. But Marvin Gaye SACD mulitchannel sounds like poo, when played in multichannel on the PS3. This a Hybrid disc with 2ch and Mulit, the 2ch sounds great. Multi...not so much..

Here's the deal: the PS3 has both a digital optical output and an HDMI 1.3 output as well. You can only output the high resolution audio via the HDMI cable, although you can output the standard CD audio (for discs which have both tracks) via the digital optical output. I currently have this setup as I do not have an HDMI capable receiver (waiting on the new Denons with internal Dolby TrueHD and dts HD decoding).

Why do you want to do the TrueHD decoding in the receiver?

Cuz it's k00l, and you'll get more lights lit up.

Can't you just wrap the receiver in fairy lights and switch them on each time the player decoded TrueHD?

:D

I think you've just discovered a market for a fantastic receiver upgrade there.

After using my Plastation 3 as a SACD player a few times, I swear it sounds better than my usual sources. It may be my imagination, but I think it may be as good as most of the stand alone players that I have heard. Maybe it is the processing power in the unit.

From what I've heard, Sony worked long and hard on refining the DSD->PCM conversion on the PS3.

IIRC, they had several members of the original DSD and SACD team working on the PS3 decoder, and as recently as the v1.3 hardware, they were still tweaking the process.

So Let me get this straight,

As a games machine the PS3 is not as much fun as the Wii and costs twce as much

As a DVD player its very good but the blu ray disc-s have problems outputting at true Hi Def due to the DRM restriction

and as an SACD player you can not listen to Multichannel unless you use HDMI so


what is the point ?

So Let me get this straight,

As a games machine the PS3 is not as much fun as the Wii and costs twce as much

As a DVD player its very good but the blu ray disc-s have problems outputting at true Hi Def due to the DRM restriction

and as an SACD player you can not listen to Multichannel unless you use HDMI so


what is the point ?

Yep you got it right..there is none..the ps3 is a total waist...I dont know where you got your info from..but you are off on most of what you posted

So Let me get this straight,

As a games machine the PS3 is not as much fun as the Wii and costs twce as much

As a DVD player its very good but the blu ray disc-s have problems outputting at true Hi Def due to the DRM restriction

and as an SACD player you can not listen to Multichannel unless you use HDMI so


what is the point ?

The only problem with the PS3 as far as gaming goes is the lack of good new content (that is a big problem, but normal with consoles during the early phases).

As a DVD player it is ok, it does not upconvert so it isn't great.

As a blu-ray player it is wonderful, and by far the most popular and feature rich player.

If you are using the PS3 you should go for the HDMI capability, it adds a to your enjoyment of blu-ray movies and apparently SACD and DVD-A.

It does not have 5.1 or 7.1 analog outputs, so the only way to get uncompressed multichannel output out of it is over HDMI.

I have a PS3, and an HDMI capable receiver. I love the PCM with blu-ray and am getting interested in SACD/DVD-A but haven't picked one up yet.

I listened to an SACD on my PS3 last night for the first time. It was Nickel Creek's "This Side" and thought it sounded great. I listened to the multi over HDMI thru my Denon.

I love the PS3 as a BD player and a gaming machine. I can't wait for more games to be released but I think Sony has delivered a good product already. The good SACD player is just one more thing to like about it!

If you are using the PS3 you should go for the HDMI capability, it adds a to your enjoyment of blu-ray movies and apparently SACD and DVD-A.
...
I have a PS3, and an HDMI capable receiver. I love the PCM with blu-ray and am getting interested in SACD/DVD-A but haven't picked one up yet.

Is that right? Does PS3 play DVD-Audio discs? I thought it could play SACD but not DVD-A?

Is that right? Does PS3 play DVD-Audio discs? I thought it could play SACD but not DVD-A? Just SACD.


fuad

Just in case anyone is confused about DVD-Audio...

It will, of course, play the DVD-Video zone of DVD-Audio discs, which will give you 2-channel PCM, DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 (sometimes DTS 96/24 - does the PS3 support this?). So a DVD-Audio disc is always useful even if you don't have a DVD-Audio player yet.

Yes he is. As posted in the manual it isnt supported, and if you have optical output on, and try to play an SACD, the PS3 will give you an error screen telling you to either chose analog stereo or HDMI for SACD playback.

Having said that does anyone else have crappy quality with Mulitichannel SACD via HDMI with the PS3. Maybe it's the CD I'm using, or my Onkyo 804. But Marvin Gaye SACD mulitchannel sounds like poo, when played in multichannel on the PS3. This a Hybrid disc with 2ch and Mulit, the 2ch sounds great. Multi...not so much..

Its the SACD you are using. the "Marvin Gaye Collection" SACD is one of the worst multichannel mixes and encoding you will ever hear. The stereo mix has some errors but is much better.

Its the SACD you are using. the "Marvin Gaye Collection" SACD is one of the worst multichannel mixes and encoding you will ever hear. The stereo mix has some errors but is much better.
Thanks I figured as much. The Multi on that CD is..Im at a loss of words for how bad it is. The Stereo is pretty good. Thanks for the reply

Here's the deal with SACDs on the PS3...

SACDs are encoded with up to 3 layers.
1.) 5.1 SACD Mix
2.) 2.0 Stereo SACD Mix
3.) Standard CD Mix

You can play the 2.0 SACD mix and the standard CD mix via the optical out.
You can only play the 5.1 SACD mix over HDMI

So in short you are able to play SACDs via optical. Just not Multichannel SACD.
This is a bandwith issue - not a DRM issue. The same reason you cannot play an uncompressed audio track from a blu-ray/hddvd via optical/coax.

acually there is a DRM issue when using the PS3 in that regard.

Anyone else getting an occasional "This media cannot be played on the connected hardware" error when playing SACD? Usually a quick tap of the circle button fixes it, but it is kind of irritating.

And HOLY CARCK does Brothers in Arms sound phenomenal.

There is some uncertainty about the optical out. I don't have the PS3 but I'm curious.

How do you know if the stereo 2.0 channel via optical (as PCM) comes from the stereo SACD mix and not the RBCD layer? Is there an OSD which tells you leaving no doubt about it?

Kilian.ca-

Yes, there is. You are able to select which layer plays through the PS3 interface.

Thanks Frozen Sooner! The ability to play the stereo SACD mix would be one consideration when I finally decide whether to get the PS3 or a standalone BD player.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the valuable info for PS3 as a SACD player. I do think that my SACD's sound nice via HDMI into my Marantz SR7001 receiver, but I have a problem though. At first when I insert the disc, the receiver detects "SACD" and the DSD indicator lights up. There is however no sound output. When I stop playback and enter the same 5.1 layer from the menu, the receiver reads "multi-channel 5.1" with the DSD indicator not lit, and sound is output in 5.1.

My impression is that I'm getting 5.1 sound, but in standard resolution( for want of a better description).

Can you guys tell me what I'm doing wrong? The Marantz is HDMI ver.1.2 for input.

My impression is that I'm getting 5.1 sound, but in standard resolution( for want of a better description). Go to XMB, Settings, Audio, HDMI, choose Auto.

Basically, the PS3 can't pass DSD/DST just yet. However, it can convert the stereo and multichannel audio at up to 176.4 kHz. The sampling rate depends on the capabilities of your receiver.


fuad

Hi All,

Any idea if the firmware 1.8 update will allow me to get DSD?. I notice that they've included "bitstream for SACD" in the list of features in 1.8. Is this the same as DSD?

Anyway, downloading the update now. Just wanted to know if anyone else have tried it.


Cheers

Roger

Actually it's "Bitmapping" not bitstream. Per sonys website

"You can adjust settings for the audio output of Super Audio CDs.

Off Disable bitmapping.
Type 1 Use a technique called dithering to reduce noise or distortion produced during data output."

No DSD yet.

I didnt want to make a new thread so i hope this is an alright thread to ask questions.

I have never listened to SA-CD and just found out that the PS3 is capable. I currently have my PS3 running to a Sony STR-DG810 receiver via HDMI and everything seems to be working fine besides SA-CD's.

I get lossless sound via blu-rays and 1080p to my television. However, when I go to play a SA-CD (Miles Davis - King of Blue) it says ""This media cannot be played on the connected hardware" error when playing SACD" but unlike Frozen Sooner on page 2 I cannot actually ever play the track. This happens on both the 5.1 and 2.0 tracks that show up on the PS3. I am using 1.80 firmware.

Does my receiver not support this? From what I understand, the PS3 converts SACDs into PCM and then transmits over to the receiver. Am i not understanding correctly?

Sorry for the noobish questions but this is my first attemp at ever playing a SA-CD.

Any suggestions or insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

I didnt want to make a new thread so i hope this is an alright thread to ask questions.

I have never listened to SA-CD and just found out that the PS3 is capable. I currently have my PS3 running to a Sony STR-DG810 receiver via HDMI and everything seems to be working fine besides SA-CD's.

I get lossless sound via blu-rays and 1080p to my television. However, when I go to play a SA-CD (Miles Davis - King of Blue) it says ""This media cannot be played on the connected hardware" error when playing SACD" but unlike Frozen Sooner on page 2 I cannot actually ever play the track. This happens on both the 5.1 and 2.0 tracks that show up on the PS3. I am using 1.80 firmware.

Does my receiver not support this? From what I understand, the PS3 converts SACDs into PCM and then transmits over to the receiver. Am i not understanding correctly?

Sorry for the noobish questions but this is my first attemp at ever playing a SA-CD.

Any suggestions or insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

You are correct. The PS3 converts DSD to PCM and sends that out. Why you can't play that disc is beyond me. Have you tried another SACD ? I've had no problems playing SACDs. I'm using a marantz sr7001 receiver connected to my ps3

Interesting problem bigcheda. I have that same SACD of Miles, it works just fine with my PS3 and Onkyo 804. Have you checked your HDMI audio output settings on the PS3. That error sounds as if the PS3 is trying to send SACD via Toslink. Go to sound options on the PS3 and make sure that HDMI is the source for sound output, also go to manual settings,(not automatic) check and make sure that 2ch 176.4k, and under 5.1 make sure 88.2k are selected as one of the output formats. If it still doesnt work after this then Im stumped. I would think the DG810 would be able to support 176.4k 2 channel. and 88.2 for 5.1. I havent look deep into the 810's specs, but it seems like it should support this.
You are correct the PS3 does output SACD as a PCM signal to the AVR. Good luck let us know how it goes.

well i am not sure what exactly happened but I put in a different sa-cd and it worked, 5.1 176khz PCM (or thats what the receiver indicated). Then i put the SACD of Miles and it worked.

I am not sure if I changed anythign or if it was just a fluke the first time.

Thanks for the responses guys

Just to clear up one point, my PS3 with 1.82 firmware won't let me play an SACD via optical. If I attempt to, I get a message to that effect.

Anyway, while using the 2 channel analog output, I was able to pick the multi channel or two channel version of an SACD. Thinking I would be hard pressed to tell the difference, I put on Diana Krall's "Temptation". Low and behold, the first track has a 4 bar intro on the two channel and an 8 bar intro on the multi channel. They must mix the multi down to two channel -- with dolby encoding, I wonder?

Go to XMB, Settings, Audio, HDMI, choose Auto.

Basically, the PS3 can't pass DSD/DST just yet. However, it can convert the stereo and multichannel audio at up to 176.4 kHz. The sampling rate depends on the capabilities of your receiver.


fuad

Is DSD passthrough something that's feasable in the PS3's future? Just wondering if I should try to find another option (if one exists), or simply wait it out?

Well all I can say is that I currently have hdmi pcm (bitmapping type1) sacd's playing, and it sounds phenominal.

I tried to find some hard info on the difference between the 2 types of bitmapping/noise reduction for the sacd bitstream, but I've had no luck so far.

I'm not sure if all of the above questions here are answered there but there's a dedicated FAQ about SACD on PS3 here:

http://www.ps3sacd.com/faq.html

Is DSD passthrough something that's feasable in the PS3's future? Just wondering if I should try to find another option (if one exists), or simply wait it out?

It is highly unlikely, given that they just took SACD out of the 40GB model.
With DSD > 24/176.4 PCM multi-channel conversion though, ask yourself it it's really worth it to get a decicated SACD player with DSD output, becuase then you have to make sure the receiver accepts DSD natively.
The Onkyo 605 for example is HDMI 1.3, but does NOT accept DSD.
If you are totally stuck on DSD instead of PCM conversion - the $169 Oppo 980H is a great choice.

Why do you want to do the TrueHD decoding in the receiver?

Cuz it's k00l, and you'll get more lights lit up.

best response ever. I am all about the lights lighting up. Have to get every last feature of the equipment working at one time or another. (even if its just a light bulb!) :lol

Just to clear up one point, my PS3 with 1.82 firmware won't let me play an SACD via optical. If I attempt to, I get a message to that effect.

SACD can NEVER be transmitted over optical due to copy protection concerns.

SACD can ONLY be transmitted over analog, HDMI or proprietary connections (Denon), never digital optical or anything else.

I have just one simple question. Would it be possible to use PS3, without a TV, for SACD and CD playback only?

The firmware update 2.00 you can now have multi-channel via optical using DTS.

The firmware update 2.00 you can now have multi-channel via optical using DTS.

DTS is much inferior compare to DSD, AFAIK.

Here's the data intensity per channel for CD, DTS HD and DSD. I don't know where DTS falls but it should be somewhere between CD and DTS HD.

CD is 16 bits 44.1kHz sample rate = 705 kbit/s bitstream

DTS-HD on BR and HD DVDs is 24bits x 96kHz sample rate = 2304 kbit/s bitstream

DSD is 1 bits 64x44.1=2822kHz sample rate = 2822.1kbit/s bitstream

So, yes, Firmware 2.0 will let you do multi-channel TOSLINK outs using DTS, but consider it downmixed to CD quality (similar to hearing your favorite CD over radio broadcast). Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

DTS is much inferior compare to DSD, AFAIK.

Here's the data intensity per channel for CD, DTS HD and DSD. I don't know where DTS falls but it should be somewhere between CD and DTS HD.

CD is 16 bits 44.1kHz sample rate = 705 kbit/s bitstream

DTS-HD on BR and HD DVDs is 24bits x 96kHz sample rate = 2304 kbit/s bitstream

DSD is 1 bits 64x44.1=2822kHz sample rate = 2822.1kbit/s bitstream

So, yes, Firmware 2.0 will let you do multi-channel TOSLINK outs using DTS, but consider it downmixed to CD quality (similar to hearing your favorite CD over radio broadcast). Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

OK, saying CD to radio broadcast quality is a little too much. DSD is pretty
much a multi-channel PCM. What it does is just compress the multi-channel
PCM to DTS so it can travel through TOSLINK. It's more of a PCM 1440Kbps
to MP3 320Kbps. You can only hear step difference between DSD and DTS.

I have just one simple question. Would it be possible to use PS3, without a TV, for SACD and CD playback only?

You can insert a disc and it will start playing, automatically. You can eject the disc by pressing next to the disc opening. And you could even skip tracks with the controller only.

However, you need a TV to initially set up the PS3 (including the auto play feature). And anything else that needs menus, like updates, would need a tv.

Roger,

My impression is that I'm getting 5.1 sound, but in standard resolution( for want of a better description).


you can't call it "standard" resolution! ;)

SACD over HDMI is 6 channels of high rez audio - 176.4Khz/24b PCM

Just to clear up one point, my PS3 with 1.82 firmware won't let me play an SACD via optical. If I attempt to, I get a message to that effect.
that's normal- it's part of the copy protection built into the SACD spec. with the ps3 your options are either stereo analog over the regular rca cables, or PCM over HDMI. PCM over HDMI is obviously best.

OK, saying CD to radio broadcast quality is a little too much. DSD is pretty
much a multi-channel PCM. What it does is just compress the multi-channel
PCM to DTS so it can travel through TOSLINK. It's more of a PCM 1440Kbps
to MP3 320Kbps. You can only hear step difference between DSD and DTS.

comparing something to a 320kbps mp3 is not exactly favorable in my mind!

comparing something to a 320kbps mp3 is not exactly favorable in my mind!

I'm not saying it sounds like 320kbps MP3. I am saying it's a difference between
like PCM 1440kbps to 320kbps MP3 instead of PCM 1440kbps to 128kbps or less
radio broadcast quality. If you don't know already, PCM 1440kbps and 320kbps
MP3 has very little different in sonic quality. So that is the example of a between
DSD and DTS.

DSD is pretty much a multi-channel PCM.

Pardon?

DSD is fundamentally different from PCM. Check the SACD FAQ (http://www.ps3sacd.com/sacdfaq.html#_Toc168933213)

Pardon?

DSD is fundamentally different from PCM. Check the SACD FAQ (http://www.ps3sacd.com/sacdfaq.html#_Toc168933213)

Right. Technical. But can you hear the difference between PCM from DSD like
timbre, pitch, and frequency? Sure you can pull 50 different ways how DSD
doesn't go through processing like PCM but it comes out the same.

FYI the 40GB PS3 will play .wavs written to a DVD.

I get over 100 tunes on a single layer disc and over 200 on a dual layer.

Great for party mixes or background tunes in full CD quality.

You can insert a disc and it will start playing, automatically. You can eject the disc by pressing next to the disc opening. And you could even skip tracks with the controller only.

However, you need a TV to initially set up the PS3 (including the auto play feature). And anything else that needs menus, like updates, would need a tv.

To update this answer about playing discs without a TV, I tried it last night. The PS3 did indeed start playing the disc without the TV on, but it played the CD layer of an SACD Hybrid. My system [firmware 2.0] is using optical for audio. With the TV on and the menus excessable, I was able to pick the SACD layer.

I'm glad this thread is going again.

It is highly unlikely, given that they just took SACD out of the 40GB model.



So not all versions of the PS3 will play SACD?

I will be buying a PS3 soon. Which version should I get?

I was planning on getting the 80GB version of the PS3.

Thanks for any advice.

I just read the PS3 SACD FAQ and found the answer to my own question:

I read in another threat that The SCAD to DTS 0ver optical was disabled with the latest firmware. can anyone confirm?

OK, saying CD to radio broadcast quality is a little too much. DSD is pretty
much a multi-channel PCM. What it does is just compress the multi-channel
PCM to DTS so it can travel through TOSLINK. It's more of a PCM 1440Kbps
to MP3 320Kbps. You can only hear step difference between DSD and DTS.

I'm not saying it sounds like 320kbps MP3. I am saying it's a difference between
like PCM 1440kbps to 320kbps MP3 instead of PCM 1440kbps to 128kbps or less
radio broadcast quality. If you don't know already, PCM 1440kbps and 320kbps
MP3 has very little different in sonic quality. So that is the example of a between
DSD and DTS.

Yes I understand. It's only an slight incremental improvements from 320kbps MP3 to PCM, but the differences sometimes strikes out loud at certain frequencies due to sampling errors and magnitude clippings (happens in almost ALL recordings). And this is why most people on AVS store their digital music files FLAC instead of 320kbps MP3.

I paid for the high res DSD data stream and I want to hear the full 2800kbps. Not a downconverted PCM stream. Not a single bit less.

Yes the benefits are 'marginal', but all the marginal improvements add up.

I paid for the high res DSD data stream and I want to hear the full 2800kbps. Not a downconverted PCM stream. Not a single bit less.

Yes the benefits are 'marginal', but all the marginal improvements add up.

Well there you go. All you need is an HDMI to enjoy 2800kbps. The optical is
for those who wants to enjoy 5.1 music with budget equipment. Most people
won't know the difference between DSD and DTS 5.1 except from the loudness
of it. You have to consider that this is a great thing because none of the SACD
players except PS3 can do multiple channels over optical for budget people to
enjoy.

Well there you go. All you need is an HDMI to enjoy 2800kbps. The optical is
for those who wants to enjoy 5.1 music with budget equipment. Most people
won't know the difference between DSD and DTS 5.1 except from the loudness
of it. You have to consider that this is a great thing because none of the SACD
players except PS3 can do multiple channels over optical for budget people to
enjoy.

budget people can just output 5.1 channel using a oppo, which is less than half of the cost of a PS3.

But all the 'loudness' is destroying music recording/reproduction because consumers think louder is better. :(

I read in another threat that The SCAD to DTS 0ver optical was disabled with the latest firmware. can anyone confirm?

Can't confirm yet but reports seem to indicate that the multichannel SACD over optical (DSD-to-DTS conversion) is dropped again in v2.01 and stereo SACD over optical (PCM?) is retained. It's probably best to keep an eye on www.PS3SACD.com

But all the 'loudness' is destroying music recording/reproduction because consumers think louder is better. :(

... or the record companies believe that consumers think louder is better.

Can't confirm yet but reports seem to indicate that the multichannel SACD over optical (DSD-to-DTS conversion) is dropped again in v2.01 and stereo SACD over optical (PCM?) is retained. It's probably best to keep an eye on www.PS3SACD.com


This is by no means a "confirmation", but I can tell you that I was playing a multi-channel SACD through an optical cable from my PS3 one day, downloaded v2.01 the next day and tried to play the same SACD and had no luck getting multi-channel playback after the update.

Maybe they didn't mean to add that feature. It would make sense seeing as how they don't want the multichannel signal being transfered without copy protection.

Is there any way to put v2.0 back on the PS3 if you have already installed v2.01?

Maybe they didn't mean to add that feature. It would make sense seeing as how they don't want the multichannel signal being transfered without copy protection.

I doubt copy protection is the issue here. There's hardly a device that can record a DTS stream. A license issue seems more likely to me.

Can't confirm yet but reports seem to indicate that the multichannel SACD over optical (DSD-to-DTS conversion) is dropped again in v2.01 and stereo SACD over optical (PCM?) is retained. It's probably best to keep an eye on www.PS3SACD.com



They should add an HDMI "DSD" option to next to the "PCM" and "Bitsream" menu.

When I play SACD's through the PS3, it sounds totally different than through my Denon DVD-2930CI player. The PS3 does not have nearly the accuracy of the Denon DVD player. Although it does sound like high fidelity sound (I think) from the PS3, the clarity is just not there when the guitar is strumming and the singer is singing, etc. The sound is so different it's quite easy to tell which is which.

The PS3 (with latest 2.1 update) is playing the multi channel 5.1 track via HDMI into a Denon AVR-2807 amp having HDMI 1.1 input. (The amp shows, "3/2/1-88.2kHz multi channel in" while playing the SACD. This means the PS3 is doing the decoding, into what I only assume is 88.2kHz LPCM output.)

The Denon DVD player is doing the D/A conversion and sending via 6 multichannel analog outs into the Denon amp in Ext. in mode.

Differences in playback are likely due to the combination of PS3 just not decoding the sound very well and HDMI sucking the big one as a method of audio transfer.

Without high quality analog 5.1 outputs this device is not very useful for playing prized SACD multi-channel disks.

Richard

When I play SACD's through the PS3, it sounds totally different than through my Denon DVD-2930CI player. The PS3 does not have nearly the accuracy of the Denon DVD player. Although it does sound like high fidelity sound (I think) from the PS3, the clarity is just not there when the guitar is strumming and the singer is singing, etc. The sound is so different it's quite easy to tell which is which.

The PS3 (with latest 2.1 update) is playing the multi channel 5.1 track via HDMI into a Denon AVR-2807 amp having HDMI 1.1 input. (The amp shows, "3/2/1-88.2kHz multi channel in" while playing the SACD. This means the PS3 is doing the decoding, into what I only assume is 88.2kHz LPCM output.)

The Denon DVD player is doing the D/A conversion and sending via 6 multichannel analog outs into the Denon amp in Ext. in mode.

Differences in playback are likely due to the combination of PS3 just not decoding the sound very well and HDMI sucking the big one as a method of audio transfer.

The PS3 anyway has to do the encoding while it will not output a pure DSD bitstream. Your PS3's performance could probably get closer or exceed the Denon's if your receiver accepted 176.4 kHz PCM input, which is the maximum the PS3 will output (double 88.2).

Without high quality analog 5.1 outputs this device is not very useful for playing prized SACD multi-channel disks.

Oh yes, it is. But you'll need a HDMI receiver to appreciate it. Agreed, it would help if Sony added DSD output to the next PS3 firmware upgrade.

When I play SACD's through the PS3, it sounds totally different than through my Denon DVD-2930CI player. The PS3 does not have nearly the accuracy of the Denon DVD player. Although it does sound like high fidelity sound (I think) from the PS3, the clarity is just not there when the guitar is strumming and the singer is singing, etc. The sound is so different it's quite easy to tell which is which.

The PS3 (with latest 2.1 update) is playing the multi channel 5.1 track via HDMI into a Denon AVR-2807 amp having HDMI 1.1 input. (The amp shows, "3/2/1-88.2kHz multi channel in" while playing the SACD. This means the PS3 is doing the decoding, into what I only assume is 88.2kHz LPCM output.)

The Denon DVD player is doing the D/A conversion and sending via 6 multichannel analog outs into the Denon amp in Ext. in mode.

Differences in playback are likely due to the combination of PS3 just not decoding the sound very well and HDMI sucking the big one as a method of audio transfer.

Also keep in mind that the receiver does not perform any bass mgmt or equalization on the analogue input. The HDMI input does have these processing enabled unless you use the Pure/Direct mode.

The PS3 can also handle 176kHz which your receiver can't as stated above.

The DACs in the Denon DVD-2930CI is also prob different from the receiver.

The PS3 (with latest 2.1 update) is playing the multi channel 5.1 track via HDMI into a Denon AVR-2807 amp having HDMI 1.1 input. (The amp shows, "3/2/1-88.2kHz multi channel in" while playing the SACD. This means the PS3 is doing the decoding, into what I only assume is 88.2kHz LPCM output.)

I have a strange issue going on. On my PS3, if I select 'HDMI Output' for audio and then select "Auto" to determine the modes supported (which should detect everything supported by the 247 at the other end of the HDMI cable), it puts a check in the box for each option EXCEPT FOR all of the 7.1 choices. This seems fine.

However, when I go to play a SACD (Nine Inch Nails - The Downward Spiral Deluxe Edition specifically, my only SACD), the output volume is barely audible and is very scratchy/poppy. The only way that I can figure out how to fix this is by going back to the Audio Settings, doing a Manual setup and unchecking the "Linear PCM 5.1 Ch. 176.4 kHz" box. Then, if I go back and play the SACD, it plays it in 3/2/.1 88.2 kHz. What exactly is going on here?

I have a strange issue going on. On my PS3, if I select 'HDMI Output' for audio and then select "Auto" to determine the modes supported (which should detect everything supported by the 247 at the other end of the HDMI cable), it puts a check in the box for each option EXCEPT FOR all of the 7.1 choices. This seems fine.

However, when I go to play a SACD (Nine Inch Nails - The Downward Spiral Deluxe Edition specifically, my only SACD), the output volume is barely audible and is very scratchy/poppy. The only way that I can figure out how to fix this is by going back to the Audio Settings, doing a Manual setup and unchecking the "Linear PCM 5.1 Ch. 176.4 kHz" box. Then, if I go back and play the SACD, it plays it in 3/2/.1 88.2 kHz. What exactly is going on here?

It sounds as if your 247 cant handle LPCM 5.1 at 176.4K

Also try comparing how it sounds with the PS3 outputting via 2 channel analog. There are others here that report surprizingly fantastic sound. Also try setting the different bitmapping options. Type 3 seems to really smooth out digital CD audio, removing the edginess allowing my ears to focus more on the instruments rather than the harshness.

I paid for the high res DSD data stream and I want to hear the full 2800kbps. Not a downconverted PCM stream. Not a single bit less.


If that's so important to you, then you should have bought an SACD player that does DSD bitstream output, like the oppos.

Also, converting DSD to PCM is NOT a downconversion- it's a decode. No bits are thrown away.

Also try comparing how it sounds with the PS3 outputting via 2 channel analog. There are others here that report surprizingly fantastic sound. Also try setting the different bitmapping options. Type 3 seems to really smooth out digital CD audio, removing the edginess allowing my ears to focus more on the instruments rather than the harshness.

yeah, i've really been liking the type 3 . . . .

converting DSD to PCM is NOT a downconversion- it's a decode. No bits are thrown away.

What matters most is it's a conversion. The sample rate certainly goes down. Arguably the resolution goes up. The overall amount of information is similar. What's certain is that the PCM 5.1 stream is not bad quality.

I still see no reason for Sony not to enable DSD output though.

I've a 40GB PS/3 which is connected via optical to Onkyo 705 (soon to be Marantz SR8002). The PS/3 box says SACD playback is not supported! Do I need to buy a SACD player to play SACDs ??

What's certain is that the PCM 5.1 stream is not bad quality.
its high resolution PCM. and if its good quality why would a transcode matter?

I still see no reason for Sony not to enable DSD output though.

pigheadedness? ;)

I've a 40GB PS/3 which is connected via optical to Onkyo 705 (soon to be Marantz SR8002). The PS/3 box says SACD playback is not supported! Do I need to buy a SACD player to play SACDs ??

Yes, you need a SACD player to play SACDs. here, read about the Oppo 980H

(http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879341)Note - you won't get SACD via optical, even if it was supported. You will get sound from a hybrid disc, but you'll be listening to the redbook layer

I've a 40GB PS/3 which is connected via optical to Onkyo 705 (soon to be Marantz SR8002). The PS/3 box says SACD playback is not supported! Do I need to buy a SACD player to play SACDs ??

typical SONY not all PS3's support SACD. If they truely got their act together they could be a world leading and Dominant company. instead they spend half the time just P!$$!^& everyone off.

The OPPO's convert DSD into either analog output (very good quality) or convert it to PCM high resolution (also very good quality). They don't have the ability to send DSD via the HDMI outputs (last time I checked).

The PS3 lacks multi-channel analog outputs. With analog outputs you can send the audio through an Outlaw bass manager and enjoy some of the very best sound SACD can offer.

The OPPO's convert DSD into either analog output (very good quality) or convert it to PCM high resolution (also very good quality). They don't have the ability to send DSD via the HDMI outputs (last time I checked).

The PS3 lacks multi-channel analog outputs. With analog outputs you can send the audio through an Outlaw bass manager and enjoy some of the very best sound SACD can offer.

One of the Oppos can output DSD without conversion, as well, though the few user reports I've seen prefer the PCM output.

I have an 80gig ps3 and it says on the side sacd along with all of the other stuff. Problem is I don't have an hdmi equipped receiver. To bad they don't make a hdmi to analog adaptor for all of us out there that have MCH in the way of analog inputs. I don't see upgrading my av amp anytime soon. I run an HTPC and what would be nice is if BR pc player along with some software could be developed for scad playback just like it has been done for DVD A. I can playback DVD A disc just fine with my htpc which is great. I have about 70 ripped to my HDD and it makes playback a breeze. Heres wishing.

To bad they don't make a hdmi to analog adaptor for all of us out there that have MCH in the way of analog inputs.

is what this thread is about

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=836745

is what this thread is about

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=836745

I was estating the obvious. I should have said..Yes it is to bad the don't make....

Right, What's the issues with SACD, DCD and the PS3 then?

The PS3 will not allow DSD to be sent over the HDMI cable to be decoded by the processor. If it converts to high resolution PCM and sends that, I cannot for the life of me see why Sony will not update it to allow DSD bitstream out.

I take it that this is a matter of software, and if they wanted to do it they could. If this is the case perhaps they will do it sometime in the future? But, I should imagine that dts Master Audio is one of their biggest jobs at the moment.

The PS3, being equipped with a HDMI 1.3 transmitter, should have the hardware necessary to pass DSD natively to the receiver(because all you need is HDMI 1.2 to do that). It would be a matter of Sony caring enough about SACD to enable this via firmware update. I'm not holding my breath though.

^^ what is the actual difference passing DSD?

some people prefer DSD-> analog conversion directly

^^ what is the actual difference passing DSD?

Well I would have thought that if you convert the DSD stream to PCM, and then convert that to analog, you are defeating the object of storing the stream in DSD in the first place.

My Denon AVP-A1HD has very good DSD to analog electronics and I would like to make use of it. In the real world, of course, the difference from the playstation could be tiny, and I am waiting for Denon to release their high end disc spinner (which will pass the DSD stream), but in the mean time why not have the playstation do the same?

Iam so glad I went through this whole thread, I was leaning toward the PS3 for a player of SACD DVD and BD, now that I see that the 40GB PS3 wont play the SACD I have changed my mind and am now looking at a Oppo 980, what are other choices under 200 bucks, Ill get a BD later when the price comes WAYYY down.

am now looking at a Oppo 980, what are other choices under 200 bucks...

no other choices for performance and SQ at that price point

After using my Plastation 3 as a SACD player a few times, I swear it sounds better than my usual sources. It may be my imagination, but I think it may be as good as most of the stand alone players that I have heard. Maybe it is the processing power in the unit.
How have you hooked up the PS3 - to a receiver with HDMI 1.2 ?? I've got a PS# and an SACD player as well - and am considering upgrading my receiver to an HDMI compatible.

By the way......Check this out

http://www.ps3sacd.com/faq.html

THere's actually a web site for this

I have never heard an SACD, but I do have a PS3 60 gb. I only have 2.0 setup will an SACD sound much better in 2 channels or is the big improvement over reg cd's the Multi-channel?

I have never heard an SACD, but I do have a PS3 60 gb. I only have 2.0 setup will an SACD sound much better in 2 channels or is the big improvement over reg cd's the Multi-channel?

A well done SACD should beat the redbook audio in stereo every time. The better your entire setup(speakers, amps, etc.), the more difference you should hear between the SACD and the cd.

Does anyone know (for sure) if the new 80GB PS3 coming June 12th will be able to play SACDs? I have seen a couple people in a couple of different places suggest that it will, but I have seen no official confirmation.

I have never heard an SACD, but I do have a PS3 60 gb. I only have 2.0 setup will an SACD sound much better in 2 channels or is the big improvement over reg cd's the Multi-channel?

IMHO, the multi-channel CDs are much more of an improvement. The 2 channel ones are a slight improvement, but it's not all that much. Especially if you listen to rock. Good luck finding much material. Jazz and classical folks will love it, though... lots of SACDs for that.

To get the full benefit of SACD, you need a player that can output DSD over HDMI 1.3 or Denon Link to a compatible receiver.

Alternatively, you need a player with bass management that decodes DSD to analog outputs (5.1) to a receiver with 5.1 analog inputs that passes through the signal unaltered to the amp section.

The full DSD signal can't be passed through with digital optical or coaxial connection.

The PS3 converts the DSD to multi-channel PCM and still has to pass the signal over HDMI for full quality.

With the proper equipment and the original recording not being the limiting factor, SACD blows away CD.

I have the Oppo DV-980H player and Denon AVR-5308 receiver.

See my profile for full equipment list.

So, my NAD t754 doesn't have an HDMI input and I only have a stereo setup for my entertainment center. Could I theoretically send the 2.0 sacd layer to my Samsung FP-T5084 via HDMI (This should be the decoded bitstream, now PCM high sample rate/bit depth) and then use the televisions optical out to the optical in of the NAD to receive the now high res PCM? The optical has the bandwidth for the 2.0 from the television, and using the HDMI to the television from the PS3 should prevent the DRM from becoming a factor. Am I missing something here? Is the optical output from the television capable of a high resolution pcm, or will the television automatically convert the optical out to 44.1/16 or 48/24?

So, my NAD t754 doesn't have an HDMI input and I only have a stereo setup for my entertainment center. Could I theoretically send the 2.0 sacd layer to my Samsung FP-T5084 via HDMI (This should be the decoded bitstream, now PCM high sample rate/bit depth) and then use the televisions optical out to the optical in of the NAD to receive the now high res PCM? The optical has the bandwidth for the 2.0 from the television, and using the HDMI to the television from the PS3 should prevent the DRM from becoming a factor. Am I missing something here? Is the optical output from the television capable of a high resolution pcm, or will the television automatically convert the optical out to 44.1/16 or 48/24?

Optical can't pass high resolution audio, period. Stereo or otherwise.

Sorry, but it looks like it may be time for some upgrades. :)

A well done SACD should beat the redbook audio in stereo every time. The better your entire setup(speakers, amps, etc.), the more difference you should hear between the SACD and the cd.

Well that is not really true. A recent AES paper concerning this topic indicated that it was not possible to detect the difference with 2 channel material. That being said, IMHO SACDs usually sound better because the mixes are better. It may be because SACDs are not mixed to be listened to in the car or on a MP3 player.

Well that is not really true. A recent AES paper concerning this topic indicated that it was not possible to detect the difference with 2 channel material. That being said, IMHO SACDs usually sound better because the mixes are better. It may be because SACDs are not mixed to be listened to in the car or on a MP3 player.

That AES paper has come under a lot of criticism for the approach, methods and conclusions it reached.

Optical can't pass high resolution audio, period. Stereo or otherwise.

Sorry, but it looks like it may be time for some upgrades. :)

I thought Toslink could do 24/96/2.0

Optical can't pass high resolution audio, period. Stereo or otherwise.

Sorry, but it looks like it may be time for some upgrades. :)

Optical can pass high res no problem. The problem is the format won't allow anything to pass over an optical cable.

Some of you guys might have seen this before, but I thought these are useful for some. There are 4 pages explaining in detail how to improve sound for PS3.

homepage3.nifty.com/kanaimaru/PS3/a2-1e.htm

homepage3.nifty.com/kanaimaru/PS3/a2-2e.htm

homepage3.nifty.com/kanaimaru/PS3/a2-3e.htm

homepage3.nifty.com/kanaimaru/PS3/a2-4e.htm

Optical can pass high res no problem. The problem is the format won't allow anything to pass over an optical cable.

So........basically you're saying optical can't pass high resolution audio then, right?

Whether it's a bandwidth issue or HDCP, or whatever, it still can't pass it.

Some of you guys might have seen this before, but I thought these are useful for some. There are 4 pages explaining in detail how to improve sound for PS3.

homepage3.nifty.com/kanaimaru/PS3/a2-1e.htm

homepage3.nifty.com/kanaimaru/PS3/a2-2e.htm

homepage3.nifty.com/kanaimaru/PS3/a2-3e.htm

homepage3.nifty.com/kanaimaru/PS3/a2-4e.htm

really? this sounds hokey at best. how will placing tape here and a weight there really affect the digital bits coming out of the box and into the receiver?
I'd understand if it was saying "change these resistors" or "mod these preamps" but it seems like everything he is suggesting is for an analog box, like a record player.
Sorry if I am alone in thinking this, please don't flame me but I just don't see those things making any difference.:confused:

I don't think there is an optical out on the PS3.

There is optical out on the PS3. HDMI, optical and regular (using their cable (stereo) )

really? this sounds hokey at best. how will placing tape here and a weight there really affect the digital bits coming out of the box and into the receiver?
I'd understand if it was saying "change these resistors" or "mod these preamps" but it seems like everything he is suggesting is for an analog box, like a record player.
Sorry if I am alone in thinking this, please don't flame me but I just don't see those things making any difference.:confused:

Yeah I also had a giant laugh at this as well. Just seems like a case of an audiophile taking things too far. I don't understand how some tape, rubber feet, and a metal puck resting in precisely the right location are supposed to improve the transfer of a digital relationship.

you'd be surprised how much a little damping can help a CD player

Yeah I also had a giant laugh at this as well. Just seems like a case of an audiophile taking things too far. I don't understand how some tape, rubber feet, and a metal puck resting in precisely the right location are supposed to improve the transfer of a digital relationship.

Can you say "power of the placebo effect"? :D

Unless the difference can be detected in a blind (or better yet double-blind) test, then I am always suspect of people who claim to hear sound quality improvements from such things. And I am even more suspect of people selling high-priced products that make the same claims.

i have read here that my 40g ps3 will not play my sacds but mine will. i still have a problem. my surround sound sacds only come out in 2 channel. the integra is showing that all 5 channels are producing but no sound from the other 3. put the same sacd in the oppo and it works from all 5. anyone have a solution for this or is this what people mean when they say the 40g won't play sacds? any help would be greatly appreciated.

Currently 40gb PS3 models do not support SACD playback. I'm fairly certain that it does not have the correct hardware to ever play it
.
Many SACDs are Hybrid discs, in that they contain both a Redbook CD layer along with a SACD layer.

Your PS3 is simply playing the standard two channel 16/44 CD layer. Now depending on how your ps3 audio is setup, the ps3 will output a total of 5.1 channels to the receiver during 2-channel playback.
It is a weird glitch/bug that Sony has decided not to rectify.

Original 60gb/80gb models support SACD. The new 80gb Non-MGS-Bundle does not support SACD either.
Has Sony decided to abandon SACD all together? Who knows. They throw it into most of their crappy HTIB systems that do not have the fidelity to produce the quality that is present in the HD audio.
Anyhow depending on the model of your Oppo and how it is connected to your reciever it may very well have SACD playback.
Best Regards
KvE

Currently 40gb PS3 models do not support SACD playback. I'm fairly certain that it does not have the correct hardware to ever play it.

Correct. It probably can play DSD Discs, but then again those are stereo only.

Original 60gb/80gb models support SACD. The new 80gb Non-MGS-Bundle does not support SACD either.

There has also been the 20GB model that is SACD-compatible.

See PS3 SACD FAQ (http://www.ps3sacd.com/faq.html).

That AES paper has come under a lot of criticism for the approach, methods and conclusions it reached.

I know there has been. It seems that you are in that camp. Specificly what did you not agree with?

My PS3 does not recognize CD nor SACD anymore.......what's going on?? I played SACD a month ago.

Did latest firmware uppdate do that?

Can anyone play CDs or SACDs with latest firware update?

I know there has been. It seems that you are in that camp. Specificly what did you not agree with?

Alas I am not a subscriber, so all I have seen are the comments about the article. My intention was to point out that a single study may not prove a point, and several people more well informed than I were skeptical about the results.

My PS3 does not recognize CD nor SACD anymore.......what's going on?? I played SACD a month ago.

Did latest firmware uppdate do that?

Can anyone play CDs or SACDs with latest firware update?

Which PS3 do you have? 20gb? 40gb? 60gb? 80gb?

My PS3 does not recognize CD nor SACD anymore.......what's going on?? I played SACD a month ago.

Did latest firmware uppdate do that?

Can anyone play CDs or SACDs with latest firware update?

Which PS3 do you have? 20gb? 40gb? 60gb? 80gb?
I too would like to know this as I specifically purchased my PS3 for its SACD capability. I do NOT want some firmware to wipe that feature out.

I too would like to know this as I specifically purchased my PS3 for its SACD capability. I do NOT want some firmware to wipe that feature out.

There is no chance that Sony will disable SACD playback with a firmware upgrade. They have never even removed any documented feature that was added by an earlier firmware upgrade. The only known example of a remove feature is an officially undocumented one: DSD-to-DTS transcoding in v2.00 (out in v2.01); see the PS3 SACD FAQ (http://www.ps3sacd.com/faq.html).

i'm fully upgraded to the lastest firmware and can confirm that I have sacd playback on my 60gb ps3...listened to pink floyd dsotm last night! =)

I dont know the technical term but what are the technical "numbers" or bitrates between SACD, DVD-A compared to the three Blu Ray lossless formats? How close is SACD to, say, PCM on Blu Ray?