Perspective guys... if the PJ is wall mounted, why not just lay a nice silk cloth over it after it cools down? If it is ceiling mounted, the likelihood of dust getting all the way up there is fairly slim... especially if you don't have an HVAC vent nearby. In that case, I wouldn't bother with capping it.

I had an HS51 and HS51A - They always lost focus, and the lens cap attached to the the lens, witch also defocused the lens as well as moved the lens

Cine4home should be doing an extensive review of the JVC in a couple of weeks when they get one of these pj's. If there are any issues with the focusing mechanism (unlikely), I am sure they will discover it. I would think that more people would be more upset with the lack of motorized zooming, even though I think that is a non issue as well.

For the CH guys here - latest info from JVC UK is that the vertical stretch needed for CH to work hasn't been implemented. The Genum chip has it on board, it's just not been used. We're trying to find out if it can or will be 'turned on' in a firmware upgrade.

Gary

When I had the Sharp 10K I felt that from time to time I needed to refocus. Was always a bit suspicious that vibrations were causing it to defocus a little. I never had this issue with my Ruby. That being said, I was frequently frustrated by the challenge of trying to focus things in that exact sweet spot precisely with the Ruby and missed the dial-by-hand manual technique that makes it a lot easier IMO.

Maybe a stupid question, but how would you ceiling mount it if you don't invert it? Aren't the mount screws on the bottom of the unit? Would you have to build a suspended shelf?

Even though the unit can be used without inverting it, my strong preference for a ceiling mount application would still be to invert it. Much cleaner looking IMO with a nice Chief flush mount than having a suspended shelf.

How hard would it really be to have the vertical stretch turned on? I think they'll do it if we make a big enough stink. We may be small but we do have access to important people.

They won't do it, That would be another reason for you to buy the next projector next year!

My wish list for next Years model

HDMI 1.3 w/ deep color support
Motorized Lens w/ Manual override if needed
20 db sound level
20,000:1 Native Contrast

Add to the above:
Memories for powered zoom, lens shift so that the projector may be easily used in a CH setup without an anamorphic lens.
1000 lumens.

Even if this projector had a lens shift lock, that is no gaurantee that the lens will not drift or loose focus. My Panny 900 has a lens lock and big bass hits knock out the focus, zoom, and shift!

On the other hand, my Z3 before would never loose focus, or zoom with big bass movies and it had no lens lock.

The RS1 of course will be a much better built machine than either of these however, so I am not worried about this.

I am glad there is no motorized lens shift, zoom, focus to keep the price even lower, and is easier to fine tune as has been mentioned. I think they cut corners in the best possible place ;) However, for people doing constant height, I can see how this would be a nice convenience feature.

I do not see any issues with this unit from all we know about it.

There is no lens focus or zoom lock on the lens, but I can say the operation of the zoom and focus is tight, not at all as loose as on the older SX21 and HX2 lenses. Same with the H/V shift controls.

As for putting the lens cap on when not in use, pardon me, but I'm filing that in the "over the top" category.

That is good to hear. My Panny 900 drives me nuts. I have to check the focus each time I turn it on! My sub is powefull (12/2 ultra) but a HT projector should be able to withstand this without loosing focus, zoom or shift.

Tom, we are just ribbing on you. The RS1 looks to be a fabulous projector and I for one have nothing better to do while I await delivery of my RS1 than to give you a hard time. :)

That is good to hear. My Panny 900 drives me nuts. I have to check the focus each time I turn it on! My sub is powefull (12/2 ultra) but a HT projector should be able to withstand this without loosing focus, zoom or shift.

Toe,
Strange that my Panny 700 has retained focus, zoom and shift for over 2 years now. And I have twin SVS subs (PB12+2) and occasionally drive them extremely hard. Never a problem.

Just use a nice bit of strong packing tape to hold that focus...the clear type, of course.

On a more serious note, I would certainly expect focus to need a touch up between cold start-up and warm. I wouldn't be surprised if this changed with even seasonal mild temperature changes in the home.

Oh yes, you also have to be able to jump up and focus if the projector jumps out of focus at reel changes. :D

There is no lens focus or zoom lock on the lens, but I can say the operation of the zoom and focus is tight, not at all as loose as on the older SX21 and HX2 lenses. Same with the H/V shift controls.

As for putting the lens cap on when not in use, pardon me, but I'm filing that in the "over the top" category.

Why is that over the top?

Any projector that I would have would be right about head level, and very easy to put the Cap on when not in use. Helps keep dust and stuff out out the optical path and lens.

Toe,
Strange that my Panny 700 has retained focus, zoom and shift for over 2 years now. And I have twin SVS subs (PB12+2) and occasionally drive them extremely hard. Never a problem.

Interesting. I have never heard of anyone else having these issues, and have often thought I may have just got a loose unit. Luckily I can get my money back so it is not an issue. In the meantime, I have made a temp fix with some sticky rubber material which has solved all issues, except the focus which nothing I have tried will fix.

Guys have we gotten definitive word on what the color scheme of the RS1 housing will be? I am unclear whether its all black, black with silver trim, or something else (and I assume is the white face plate now gone)? I am referring specifically to what we'll be getting in the US. Thanks.

In all my years of using projectors of this type and seeing some installed for years in customer sites, I've never seen one accumulate any significant amount of dust on a lens unless the projector were pointed upright into a mirror or such.

I'd be more concerned with inadvertently getting a fingerprint on the lens when removing or installing the lens cap.

Unlike CRT's and CRT projectors, there is no static charge during operation that will attract dust to the lens surface. Older CRT projectors, Sony's in particular, were terrible about static accumulation of dust on the CRT's...in the case of the Sony's it was usually the Blue CRT. Could spot the problem the moment I saw the image.

The unit for US consumption will have a black face...we will have Pre-Production units at CES in a suite at Caesar's. I don't know the number yet, but will post it here when I can.

Why is that over the top?

Any projector that I would have would be right about head level, and very easy to put the Cap on when not in use. Helps keep dust and stuff out out the optical path and lens.

There is probably more dust in your lens cap, than is floating around in the air.................

......I know, you are probably going to tell me that you keep your lens cap in a silk pouch between uses. ;)

no I just place the cap, lens side down.

I may consider this projector only if I hear of very tight lens focus, and Shift.

I would also like it to not need refocus during cold start-up and normal use.

Why would you need to refocus?

I did on my HS51a, but not on my HS51!

My Pearl has no such problems.

For the CH guys here - latest info from JVC UK is that the vertical stretch needed for CH to work hasn't been implemented. The Genum chip has it on board, it's just not been used. We're trying to find out if it can or will be 'turned on' in a firmware upgrade.

Gary


I hope so. At the risk of sounding greedy this would be great since I most likely won't be able to afford an external VP any time soon.

I'm on the AVS pre-order list and this will be my first PJ so I'm excited that it looks to be such an amazing unit. Now if I could just make Feb arrive faster.

I may consider this projector only if I hear of very tight lens focus, and Shift.

I would also like it to not need refocus during cold start-up and normal use.

Why would you need to refocus?

I did on my HS51a, but not on my HS51!

My Pearl has no such problems.

Of all the possible issues with a new pj, this is one I have never heard raised before. Interesting.

Anway, why are you already considering an upgrade to your Pearl? You've only had it for a few months. Is there some level of performance that you are not happy with?

"My wish list for next Years model

HDMI 1.3 w/ deep color support
Motorized Lens w/ Manual override if needed
20 db sound level
20,000:1 Native Contrast "

I'd trade all of those in a heartbeat for 50-100% more lumens, and I'd pay 25% more for them.

I may consider this projector only if I hear of very tight lens focus, and Shift.

I would also like it to not need refocus during cold start-up and normal use.

Why would you need to refocus?

I did on my HS51a, but not on my HS51!

My Pearl has no such problems.


Are you already considering an upgrade over your Pearl and putting the Pearl up for sale? All around, I think the RS1 would be a nice upgrade over the Pearl ;) Just the lack of DI alone, and the PQ negatives it brings is a huge advantage.

I just received my WSR newsletter via email. It makes mention of the new JVC RS-1. Danny Richelieu says:

I was given a sneak peek of this new technology, and let me tell you, the three-dimensionality of the image was absolutely superb.

That's what I need to hear (again)! :D

I really am curious as to what the ANSI contrast is on the JVC. All reports indicate that depth/3 dimensionality are very good, which would lead me to believe that ANSI contrast is going to be quite high for a LCoS based projector.

I just received my WSR newsletter via email. It makes mention of the new JVC RS-1. Danny Richelieu says:



That's what I need to hear (again)! :D

I really am curious as to what the ANSI contrast is on the JVC. All reports indicate that depth/3 dimensionality are very good, which would lead me to believe that ANSI contrast is going to be quite high for a LCoS based projector.

Yep. We've now had several reports of the depth being incredible. As I've been discovering lately, on/off CR plays a very important role when it comes to ANSI CR in varying APL scenes. The native 15,000:1 is a huge step forward not just for LCoS but for all pjs in this class and then some. And with such an incredible accomplishment it is only natural that ANSI CR would be vastly improved over what was provided by older LCoS technology.

I know your main concern was that the image may look flat. Well, unless all these reports are way off base looks like there is nothing to worry about in that department my friend! :)

"I really am curious as to what the ANSI contrast is on the JVC. All reports indicate that depth/3 dimensionality are very good, which would lead me to believe that ANSI contrast is going to be quite high for a LCoS based projector."

Rob,

I seem to remember Mark Petersen saying in his preview he expected ANSI to come in at between 300-350, based on what JVC told him at CEDIA. I'm curious too about the final ...

If the ANSI is indeed high (how can it not be?) - seems like JVC would be proud to release the spec. But probably never will. Maybe too many variables involved (like the room). However at EHXpo Tom S hinted at 300-350. It's one of the few big unknowns re: this projector. Have to wait for the reviews. Hopefully cine4home will get their hands on one in a few weeks. And when gregr reviews it - that will be the gospel (to me).

In answer to the question.
We'll probably only know this once launched, but using the extreme lens shift to do this while the PJ is above the top of the screen can have negative effects on the PQ. So it might not be worth it.

Unlike all the other dila projectors where the image was coming out of the lens already offset, it seems that in this one the image is centered so it must be shifted regardless of the projector orientation.

Of all the possible issues with a new pj, this is one I have never heard raised before. Interesting.

Anway, why are you already considering an upgrade to your Pearl? You've only had it for a few months. Is there some level of performance that you are not happy with?


Well first I'm an ANAL little Bi^$%

Convergance
Light Leakage
Brighter Black Corner issues
Color Uniformity
Sharpness without my video processor
3D effect without my video processor - (Make a big difference) Due to sharpness


The above things are not bad, but are causing me to continue looking for (MY) perfect projector.

So...

JVC

Convergance - Adjustable
Light Leakage - None Reported
Brighter Black Corner issues - None Reported
Color Uniformity - Reported to be better then the Pearl
Sharpness without my video processor - Reported to be close to the Sharp 20K
3D effect without my video processor - Reported to be better then the Pearl


BAD...


No motorized lens

Connections in the back (for me only as there is a wall right behind the unit)

Blub Costs more

JVC the brand name to me SUCKS! Not very well known for their Quality. (Not a deal breaker)

Still 3 panels (I actually hate 3 panel designs - But very susceptible to RBE - so no single chip DLP for me)







Things I need to know still...

Because of the Manual Lens.

Will this thing lose focus... With Bass, Lens Cap on/off, over time, cold start/normal viewing.

Does the Cap attach to the Lens or the Unit? (yes I use mine)

Will this thing lose image shift due to the same reasons.

How adj is the Convergance?

How long is the half life on the bulbs?

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/PRESENT/photos/general/dlars1.jpg


This is the RS1

[QUOTE=SOWK]
JVC the brand name to me SUCKS! Not very well known for their Quality. (Not a deal breaker)[QUOTE]

Are you basing this opinion on all types of JVC electronic equipment? Or just JVC projectors? If so - Lotsa long-time JVC D-ILA owners may disagree w/ this statement.

Just their company all around. I have never used one of their Projectors! (YET!) :p

Well first I'm an ANAL little Bi^$%

How adj is the Convergance?



From what I can gather it's 1 pixel. I've seen a few Pearls and most are not consistently out by the same color across the screen. Thus even if the Pearl had adjustment it may not fix the MC unless MC was out by the same color/amount across the screen. It will be interesting to see how this works in practice on the JVC.

Dazzer

Blub Costs more

I was under the assumption that the bulb cost would be similar to the Pearls. No?

From what I can gather it's 1 pixel. I've seen a few Pearls and most are not consistently out by the same color across the screen. Thus even if the Pearl had adjustment it may not fix the MC unless MC was out by the same color/amount across the screen. It will be interesting to see how this works in practice on the JVC.Quite. This adjustment is not going to do anything for non-linear misconvergence.

It helps, not perfect but *much* better then nothing. My JVC G10 had basically the same adjustment on it.

Shawn

Yep. We've now had several reports of the depth being incredible. As I've been discovering lately, on/off CR plays a very important role when it comes to ANSI CR in varying APL scenes. The native 15,000:1 is a huge step forward not just for LCoS but for all pjs in this class and then some. And with such an incredible accomplishment it is only natural that ANSI CR would be vastly improved over what was provided by older LCoS technology.

I just posted this in another JVC thread, but I think it is worth repeating here given your comments above. This is from the Projector Central review of the SX-21 in 2003:

Contrast performance has always been the most evident weakness of LCOS technology. LCOS machines do not have the contrast that DLP products can deliver. However, the SX21, rated at 800:1, is the highest contrast LCOS machine we've seen to date. And its contrast performance is plenty sufficient to give most viewing material a quite pleasing snap and sparkle. There are certainly low-light scenes in which you'd prefer to see more image definition. And source material that is inherently low in contrast is not helped much by the SX21.

So, you are exactly right, the 15,000:1 NATIVE CR is a huge step forward, especially in LCoS technology given the SX-21 was only rated at 800:1 a few years ago! Isn't progress great!? :)

I know your main concern was that the image may look flat. Well, unless all these reports are way off base looks like there is nothing to worry about in that department my friend! :)

Yes, this was/is definitely my main concern. This didn't become such a big concern until I saw a Ruby and Pearl, both of which were lacking in depth and looked "flat". Since the JVC is also LCoS based, I became concerned. After going back and reading comments from people who have seen the RS1, as well as some more reviews that have come in since then, I certainly agree with you that there is nothing to worry about in that department! :)

I am definitely back in the excited mode, like a kid on Christmas eve! :cool:

JVC

Brighter Black Corner issues - None Reported

Blub Costs more
I believe Cine4home stated that it is there on the RS1, it's just not as bad as the Pearl.

Would you care to reveal where you have seen the price on a replacement lamp?

I believe Cine4home stated that it is there on the RS1, it's just not as bad as the Pearl.

Would you care to reveal where you have seen the price on a replacement lamp?

I looked for bright corners at the Expo, but I couldn't see any hint of it when the video was blanked and the rope lighting was turned off. I spoke to Darinp2 the other day and he had a great point though which is that the best way to see it is to project onto a white paper close to the lens. I didn't try this approach but I'll try it at CES if JVC will let me.

I looked for bright corners at the Expo, but I couldn't see any hint of it when the video was blanked and the rope lighting was turned off. I spoke to Darinp2 the other day and he had a great point though which is that the best way to see it is to project onto a white paper close to the lens. I didn't try this approach but I'll try it at CES if JVC will let me.

Wasn't the RS1 shown on a 2.35:1 screen with no anamorphic lens? (What I'm starting to consider doing when I get mine :D ) If that was the case, the corners of the 16:9 image weren't being shown and brighter corners shouldn't have been visable. That doesn't mean they aren't there to some extent on 16:9 content.

Wasn't the RS1 shown on a 2.35:1 screen with no anamorphic lens? (What I'm starting to consider doing when I get mine :D ) If that was the case, the corners of the 16:9 image weren't being shown and brighter corners shouldn't have been visable. That doesn't mean they aren't there to some extent on 16:9 content.

Doh! Yes you are completely right. I'm surprised that I missed that, but once we blanked the video I was rushed for time and trying to get a feel for the black level was my #1 priority. I should have picked up on that in hindsight though so thanks for pointing it out. This is another reason to use the white paper test and this is another subject I'll have to revisit at CES.

Does anyone know if the "feet" on the RS1 are adjustable? I would appreciate any feeback anyone can give.

Does anyone know if the "feet" on the RS1 are adjustable? I would appreciate any feeback anyone can give.
Can you tell us why you need adjustable feet? Normally, you wouldn't want to tilt the projector at all.

Can you tell us why you need adjustable feet? Normally, you wouldn't want to tilt the projector at all.

Thanks for responding so quickly. I understand what you are saying, but my shelf is the slightest bit off and I would rather not move it if I don't have to because the holes in the wall would be right next to each other and would really cause a problem for me. So, do you know if they have adjustable feet??

Thanks for responding so quickly. I understand what you are saying, but my shelf is the slightest bit off and I would rather not move it if I don't have to because the holes in the wall would be right next to each other and would really cause a problem for me. So, do you know if they have adjustable feet??

First, no, I don't know if the RS1 has adjustable feet. It is not in the spec sheet and I don't think anyone has asked that question before. But, back to your problem... if you mean by "my shelf is the slightest bit off" that the shelf is not level then adjustable feet would help. If, on the other hand, you mean the image needs to be moved up/down or left/right to allow you to use the existing shelf, that is what the lens shift is used for. The RS1 has excellent lens shift capabilities so you should not have a problem.

In this same vein, does anyone know the dimensions that the FEET of the RS1 cover? (I know the dimensions of the pj itself, but the feet obviously cover a somewhat smaller dimension. The stand I want to sit it on has a surface slightly smaller than the pj's dimensions, but I'm hoping that the feet will have no problem fitting on the stand.)

First, no, I don't know if the RS1 has adjustable feet. It is not in the spec sheet and I don't think anyone has asked that question before. But, back to your problem... if you mean by "my shelf is the slightest bit off" that the shelf is not level then adjustable feet would help. If, on the other hand, you mean the image needs to be moved up/down or left/right to allow you to use the existing shelf, that is what the lens shift is used for. The RS1 has excellent lens shift capabilities so you should not have a problem.

Yes, by saying "my shelf is the slightest bit off", I meant that it is not level. If anyone knows if the "feet" are adjustable, I would really appreciate the help. I would hate to have to place something underneath instead of adjusting the foot.

Unlike all the other dila projectors where the image was coming out of the lens already offset, it seems that in this one the image is centered so it must be shifted regardless of the projector orientation.

The shift is done in the same manner, the difference being it is adjustable on this projector.

So, is it too early to start speculating as to whether the RS1 will benefit from an outboard scaler? I know we will have the Gennum chip to work with, which is great, but do we have any idea of how it will be implemented?

Are most people who are on the RS1 preorder list planning on using a VP, or just going to use a switcher for connecting their sources to the PJ?

planning on using a VP Yes.

Yes.

Why? Because you already own one, or because you think the RS will benefit from it despite having a Gennum chip built in? If you think the RS1 will benefit from the VP, in what areas specifically?

So, is it too early to start speculating as to whether the RS1 will benefit from an outboard scaler? I know we will have the Gennum chip to work with, which is great, but do we have any idea of how it will be implemented?

Are most people who are on the RS1 preorder list planning on using a VP, or just going to use a switcher for connecting their sources to the PJ?

I'll be using a VP50 which I've owned since it was released. It' connected to a Benq 8700 and it has really been an enhancement. Needless to say I can't wait to view 1080p through the VP50 on the RS1.

The SDE on the RS1 is improved over both the Pearl and the HD2K although this is subjective because I wasn't A/B testing them at the same time. After 2 years with my HD2K though, I have a pretty good feel what it looks like :). I mentioned in another thread that I was surprised how similar SDE looks between the Pearl SXRD and the 2nd gen DILA panels, I expected more differences between them (SXRD and 2nd gen DILA) and didn't see it. There was much bigger difference in SDE between the 1st (G series) and 2nd gen (SX/HX/HD series) DILA. The 3rd gen panels in the RS1 seem to be a further refinement although not by a huge amount. I also wasn't able to verify the focus which plays a big roll in examining SDE, the pixels looked well defined and sharp though.

Speaking of SDE, John Ballentine pointed out that the SDE on the HD10K + anamorphic lens demo was almost nonexistant. The combination of added pixel density and slightly more optical distortions nearly removed SDE completely from this demo. The HD10K was projecting onto the same size screen as the RS1, but it was done so anamorphically whereas the RS1 was 16x9 letterboxed onto a 2.35:1 screen. The lower pixel density (larger projected pixels) and sharper optical path (without the additional anamorphic lens) made the RS1 SDE a little more noticeable although without the anamorpihc lens I feel that this would be reversed.

Mark, I was just curious what your viewing distance is in your current setup with your HD2K.

Thanks.

Mark

More on this later, but the HD10K was truly stunning. The image this thing throws has got to be the best kept secret of the past year. This is the first time I've seen it properly setup in a well light controlled room and it was gorgeous. My HD2K should be similar but it's not. It was one of the very early HD2K's and Tom mentioned that there was a manufacturing problem that was fixed early on involving contamination of the 1/4 wave plate that hurts ANSI CR. The RS1 throws a very similar image to the HD10K, but with more depth in the really dark scenes.

I've been very happy with the image thrown by my HD2K, but where it starts to fall apart is in the low APL scenes. I'm hopeful that the RS1 will yield an image similar to the HD2K, but with a black level of < 1/4th of the HD2K it should really excel in low APL scenes too. The U571 demo at the EX Expo contained a lot of these dark scenes and the RS1 was more convincing in these types of scenes than the HD2K. But not by a huge amount, so only you'll be answer your original question of whether you will be impressed or not. In relation to the other 1080p projectors out there an HD2K still throws a good image.

Mark, I would like to was wondering if you could expand on the above comparisons between the RS1 and the HD2K with regards to low APL scene performance. The first quote is from post #24, and the second is from post #573. Is your comment in the second quote specific to your HD2K with the manufacturing problem?

If someone only read the second post, and had no knowledge that your HD2K has a defect which effects ANSI CR, then the information could be skewed. I just want to clarify your comments. Perhaps the defect is miniscule, and this doesn't matter.

Thanks for your time.

Mark

Fwiw, JVC has indicated that the color primaries aren't going to be as wide as the HD10K so the color gamut is going to be reduced to an extent.

What is the difference in color gamut between the HD2K and the HD10K?

Mark

Mark, I was just curious what your viewing distance is in your current setup with your HD2K.

Roughly 9 or 10 feet from an 8' wide screen.


Mark, I would like to was wondering if you could expand on the above comparisons between the RS1 and the HD2K with regards to low APL scene performance. The first quote is from post #24, and the second is from post #573. Is your comment in the second quote specific to your HD2K with the manufacturing problem?

If someone only read the second post, and had no knowledge that your HD2K has a defect which effects ANSI CR, then the information could be skewed. I just want to clarify your comments. Perhaps the defect is miniscule, and this doesn't matter.

I don't know if my HD2K has the low ANSI CR defect. I should know soon though. From what I understand it doesn't affect the on/off CR, only the ANSI and probably by not enough to be noticeable (only measurable). The RS1 outperformed the HD10K in low APL scenes so I assume it would do the same with an HD2K without the defect. As far as how the 2K looks in low APL scenes - It maintains excellent shadow detail, but the blacks aren't that convincing. In really low APL scenes blacks are more of a dark grey. By contrast (pun intended :) ) the RS1 has much more convincing blacks and the image depth in low APL scenes is better. What really blew me away on the U-571 demo was how the small fine white detail popped in really dark scenes - perspiration on the faces in dark scenes for example.


What is the difference in color gamut between the HD2K and the HD10K?

The primaries on the 2K aren't as wide as the 10K. If you check the archives, Wm or Darin posted the CIE x,y coordinates for the primaries of the 2K.

Mark, does your HD2K have adjustable feet on it? I asked this question about the RS1 earlier, but I don't think info is available yet. Thanks.

Alex

I have a JVC SX21, which I believe is the same packaging as the HX series and the HD-2k. Mine has 3 adjustable feet (1 front center and two in back).

The HD-10k and RS1 are totally new boxes and might not have adjuctable feet.

Can the RS1 use the same mount as an HD2k? I'd love it if when I got mine, all I had to do was hook up a dvdi->hdmi converter and screw it to the mount I have on the hd2k right now.

Roughly 9 or 10 feet from an 8' wide screen.

Is that by intent or due to limits of your room size? I think you mentioned you prefer a wide field of view. What is the recommended viewing distance with your setup?

Where is your HD2K mounted in the room?

Thanks.

Mark

I'd love it if when I got mine, all I had to do was hook up a dvdi->hdmi converter and screw it to the mount I have on the hd2k right now.

Will this work the same as running an HDMI cable? I only have a DVI cable run to my 7205. Will I get the same performance from the DVI with HDMI adapters on each end as I would from and HDMI cable? It will be impossible at this point to run a new cable, no forsight, I'd have to run it up the wall an across the ceiling, very low WAF.

Thanks,
Jason

Mark, does your HD2K have adjustable feet on it? I asked this question about the RS1 earlier, but I don't think info is available yet. Thanks.

Alex
The HD2K has adjustable feet, but as LoveMovies mentioned with the adjustable lens offset adjustable feet aren't needed. Think of adjustable lens offset as a way to tilt the lens rather than having to tilt the whole projector.


Is that by intent or due to limits of your room size? I think you mentioned you prefer a wide field of view. What is the recommended viewing distance with your setup?

Where is your HD2K mounted in the room?


Wide field of view is definitely one of the benefits of high fill factor 1080p. I initially built my HT with two tiers of seating with the first row at ~1.5-2.0x screen width. I moved the front row closer and found that it added a lot to the immersive effect of watching a movie. Personally, I've found that anywhere from 1.0-1.3x works best for me. It is a personal preferance though, YMMV.

My HD2K is mounted in a soffit in the back wall. I don't remember the exact dimensions but it's something like ~21' from the screen.


Can the RS1 use the same mount as an HD2k? I'd love it if when I got mine, all I had to do was hook up a dvdi->hdmi converter and screw it to the mount I have on the hd2k right now.


No idea if the mount will be the same. I suspect that it may depend on the mount itself. I'd also be very interested in hearing your comments about the RS1 vs the HD2K when you get yours. I also have a DVI cable, but I think I"m going to add a run of HDMI just to future proof it (if that's possible).

Can the RS1 use the same mount as an HD2k? I'd love it if when I got mine, all I had to do was hook up a dvdi->hdmi converter and screw it to the mount I have on the hd2k right now.

My understanding is that this is an all new housing and does not have the same mounting holes/alignment as any previous pj. I am working with JVC and Chief (www.chiefmfg.com) to get a SLB bracket designed specifically for the RS1 so we have it Day 1.

Any problem with just getting a chief RPA-U? This way you could use the mount most likely with whatever projector you purchase when you upgrade from the RS1 down the line.

My understanding is that this is an all new housing and does not have the same mounting holes/alignment as any previous pj. I am working with JVC and Chief (www.chiefmfg.com) to get a SLB bracket designed specifically for the RS1 so we have it Day 1.

Excellent! Will we get a notice on this forum when it becomes available for order? I already put in the Chief joist mount, so it's ready to rock if I can get the matching adapter....

"Think of adjustable lens offset as a way to tilt the lens rather than having to tilt the whole projector."

"I have a JVC SX21, which I believe is the same packaging as the HX series and the HD-2k. Mine has 3 adjustable feet (1 front center and two in back).

The HD-10k and RS1 are totally new boxes and might not have adjuctable feet."

Thank you both for your comments. The fact that the RS1 has an adjustable lens offset is fantastic! I have never heard of this, but am looking forward to it.

Excellent! Will we get a notice on this forum when it becomes available for order? I already put in the Chief joist mount, so it's ready to rock if I can get the matching adapter....
Chief replied to my e-mail a few weeks back that the mount should be availible by the end of this month.

Any problem with just getting a chief RPA-U? This way you could use the mount most likely with whatever projector you purchase when you upgrade from the RS1 down the line.
I believe Jason will have the projector before it ships full scale. Perhaps he can check this for us?

Think of adjustable lens offset as a way to tilt the lens rather than having to tilt the whole projector.

Offset (or shift) is not the same as tilt. Tilting the lens changes the plane of focus and the shape of the image. You can't compensate for that using shift.

But I think the OP is not worried about tilt or shift but rather having the panels rotated with respect to the screen. Leveling feet can correct for that and also for lens tilt if the projector is on a shelf which isn't level. Shift will only correct for the shelf being too low, too high or too far to the left or right.

--
Steve

I believe Jason will have the projector before it ships full scale. Perhaps he can check this for us?

Good call. Jason will be able to inform us if it will work with the RPA-U which it should be no problem.

Offset (or shift) is not the same as tilt. Tilting the lens changes the plane of focus and the shape of the image. You can't compensate for that using shift.

But I think the OP is not worried about tilt or shift but rather having the panels rotated with respect to the screen. Leveling feet can correct for that and also for lens tilt if the projector is on a shelf which isn't level. Shift will only correct for the shelf being too low, too high or too far to the left or right.

--
Steve

My take on his post was that he was worried about the shelf being a little too high or too low, either of which can be corrected with vertical lens shift. If in fact he is worried about rotation, I agree that using the feet would be the best way to handle that problem.

If the RS1 does not have feet and the orientation can't be adjusted with lens shift a person could thead three bolts into the top shelf and rest the projector on top of that (with felt covering of course). Screwing the bolts up and down would accomplish the same thing as tilting the projector forward, backward and side to side. Dave Beatty at Whisperflow uses a similar setup for his enclosures to good effect.

My understanding is that this is an all new housing and does not have the same mounting holes/alignment as any previous pj. I am working with JVC and Chief (www.chiefmfg.com) to get a SLB bracket designed specifically for the RS1 so we have it Day 1.

Great! Hopefully Jason will have these on day 1 when the RS1 ships. I prefer a bracket specifically designed for a projector vs. a universal mount. Seems to give it a cleaner look (IMHO)

Offset (or shift) is not the same as tilt. Tilting the lens changes the plane of focus and the shape of the image. You can't compensate for that using shift.

But I think the OP is not worried about tilt or shift but rather having the panels rotated with respect to the screen. Leveling feet can correct for that and also for lens tilt if the projector is on a shelf which isn't level. Shift will only correct for the shelf being too low, too high or too far to the left or right.

--
Steve

The PJ shelf isn't quit level (tilting slightly to the left). I have the Epson 400 as a hold-me-over until I receive my RS1. The 400 and my (returned) PJTX52 both have adjustable feet. I am able to adjust the left leg so to raise the right side of the image.

So, leveling feet as of now is the only way to compensate for this, besides Mark's recommendation of using bolts (which I would like to try and avoid)?

Great! Hopefully Jason will have these on day 1 when the RS1 ships. I prefer a bracket specifically designed for a projector vs. a universal mount. Seems to give it a cleaner look (IMHO)

Yes, my sentiments exactly. The RPA-U will work and has the added benefit of being reused in the future for different pjs. However the brackets made specifically for a pj are better because they fit more flush (especially if you have a flush ceiling mount with the Cheif mount as I do).

In addition the specific mounts take into account things such as lamp and filter position so they do not block access (if can be helped). In the case of the RS1 the lamp access appears from the side so may not be an issue - not sure about where the filter is (anyone know)? At any rate I highly prefer a specific SLB bracket for the pj and will keep everyone posted on when this is available and the part #.

I was looking at a post I had printed and saved from May of 2006. The thread was the discussion of Greg Rogers' review of the dVision 1080p projector. The specific post discusses sharpness and detail, and I have included it below for an interesting read. Specifically, he states:

"The MTF curve for fixed-pixel projectors is more dependent on lens quality and is ultimately limited by the native pixel format of the projector."

Now, to make this relevant to the RS1: I do not believe that lens technology has changed drastically in recent years. Assuming this to be true, there would be no no cost differential in producing a lens for the HD2K, HD10K, or the RS1.

Therefore, would it not stand to reason that the RS1 lens quality might be less than the HD10K or the HD2K? Further, with a lesser quality lens, would it mean that the RS1 would produce less detail than the HD10K or the HD2K, since their native pixel format is identical?

Mark


Here is the full text of the post from Greg Rogers:

Sorry I can't hang around 24 hours a day and answer these questions as they are posted. Obviously, my comments about sharpness and detail evoked several responses. Instead of going back and responding point by point to all of the posts on the same topic I'll just discuss sharpness and detail here and hope that suffices.

The perception of image sharpness is generally determined by edge transitions. The more abrupt (faster) the edge transitions the sharper the image appears. The lack of sharpness is usually termed softness. Sharpness is a different quality than the ability to perceive detail, which is usually called resolution.

CRT projectors typically appear significantly softer (have less sharpness) than fixed pixel projectors because the brightness of the CRT electron beam spot falls off gradually (a gaussian-like distribution) toward its edges. The pixels on a fixed-pixel projector are basically discrete (have defined edges) hence they can inherently produce sharper image edges, i.e. better sharpness. However, if the discreteness (edge definition) of the pixels is reduced by lens optics, pixel device characteristics, or misalignment of multiple pixel devices the ability of the projector to produce sharpness is reduced. (Just as lens optics, CRT spot characteristics, and misalignment [mis-convergence] reduce CRT projector sharpness). Hence, there are sharpness variations amongst fixed-pixel projectors having the same native pixel density, just as there are sharpness variations amongst CRT projectors.

In the case of the dVision 1080p, the lens optics produced superb focus and virtually no chromatic aberration, which in addition to the discrete DLP mirror structure, and no misalignment of multiple DLP chips (since this is a single chip design), produces unprecedented image sharpness. The difference in perceived image sharpness between the dVision 1080p and the Ruby was not a close call. The difference was dramatic. The edges are sharper than on the Qualia 004 (which has better optics than the Ruby), which in turn is sharper than the Ruby. I devoted a special section (called Optical Performance) in my Ruby review to discussing its optical performance. Here is part of that section:

However, edges are slightly softer on this projector [Ruby] than the Qualia 004. The gaps between individual pixels are more clearly visible on the Qualia, which is likely the result of a higher quality lens with a better MTF (modulation transfer function). The new, smaller panel may also be a factor. Regardless of the reason, high-definition images appear slightly softer and more like a CRT projector, although they are still considerably sharper than a CRT projector.

I might note that panel misalignment has an interesting effect on sharpness (and detail as well). If the panels are greatly misaligned (a pixel or more) it has LESS effect on sharpness and resolution because we then perceive the image as having discrete colored "ghost" lines. It looks terrible, but if you ignore that, it's not really affecting sharpness or resolution because we see multiple image lines. If the misalignment is greater than about 0.5 pixel but less than a pixel, we perceive color fringing, rather like chromatic aberration. It looks poor, and it does affect sharpness and detail, but we are more likely to complain about the color fringing effects. When the misalignment is sub-0.5 pixel we aren't likely to see color fringing from normal viewing distances but sharpness and detail perception suffer. I think the difficulty in aligning 1080p panels/chips on consumer products is going to make it unlikely that 3-chip/panel 1080p consumer projectors will achieve the sharpness/detail that is possible in single-chip 1080p projectors.

I'd like to discuss the artificial sharpness or false sharpness that arises when the pixel density of the projector is lower than required for the edge transitions determined by the video's rise and fall times, or when scaling or electronic detail enhancement or "sharpness" controls, add overshoot and ringing to the signals. But I don't have time to go into that now. However, those are examples of artificial or false sharpness that looks bad, and shouldn't be confused with real improvements in sharpness that arise from a higher native pixel density, superb optics, and electronics that avoid overshoot and ringing artifacts.

Resolution is a measure of the ability to differentiate spatial detail in images. But I normally try not to use the term resolution when describing image quality because it seems to confuse some people. Thanks to the computer industry, some people see the term resolution and immediately equate that to the native pixel format of the display. They seem to think that all 1920 x 1080 pixel displays have the same image resolution. But if resolution specifies the ability to perceive detail, then fixed-pixel or CRT projectors that display the same pixel format (i.e. 1920 x 1080 pixels) will likely have different resolutions. To make this more clear ... the resolution of two CRT projectors will likely be different, even if both projectors produce the same size images, using the same (1080p) scan rates. The resolution of two fixed-pixel projectors will likely be different, even though both have 1920 x 1080 pixel imaging devices.

The ability to perceive detail (resolution) gradually decreases as the size of the detail (increasing horizontal or vertical spatial frequency) is reduced. Therefore, we can best describe the ability to perceive spatial detail with a modulation transfer function (MTF), which measures contrast as spatial frequency is increased (rather like reducing the separation between a series of alternating black and white lines). The shape of the MTF curve (contrast vs frequency) is very different for CRT projectors than fixed-pixel projectors, because it usually depends more on CRT spot size and shape than lens quality. The MTF curve for fixed-pixel projectors is more dependent on lens quality and is ultimately limited by the native pixel format of the projector. The same physical factors that determine sharpness also determine resolution, but the perception of sharpness is mostly a function of the shape of the MTF curve, while resolution is normally defined as the frequency at which the contrast falls to some arbitrary level. For instance, the MTF curve for a CRT projector may start to fall off at a lower frequency but extend to a higher frequency than a fixed-pixel projector. As a consequence, the CRT projector may produce a higher ultimate resolution (finer detail) while producing less sharpness than fixed-pixel projector. In addition, larger detail may be much more visible on the fixed-pixel projector than the CRT projector because the slope of the MTF curves are very different. The same type of effects can occur between different fixed-pixel projectors because their MTF curves also vary depending on their optics and imaging devices.

In the Ruby review (Optical Performance section) I wrote the following about MTF contrast vs maximum spatial frequency (1920 pixels-per-picture-width) to compare the Ruby with CRT projectors:

The AccuPel multiburst test pattern demonstrates that this projector can easily resolve the maximum 1920 pixels-per-picture-width resolution of the 1080i and 1080p video formats. Single-pixel black and white lines are displayed with exceptional contrast using digital signals, and nearly as well using analog signals. The multiburst lines are sharper and the contrast depth is much better than I have seen on a CRT projector.

The dVision 1080p produces even better MTF contrast in the maximum frequency pixel burst (1920 pixels-per-picture-width) than the Ruby, but its steeper MTF curve also improves the contrast for larger detail compared to the Ruby. For instance, the fine lines in the horizontal bar codes on soft drink containers were much clearer on the dVision 1080p than the Ruby during a 1080i D-Theater movie. However, the perceived difference in sharpness is even greater than the perceived difference in detail when comparing the dVision 1080p to the Ruby, although the difference in detail may become even more significant when higher resolution HD/Blu-ray DVDs are considered (they weren't out yet when this evaluation was done).

To my knowledge, the Fujinon lense in the the RS1 actually performs quite well, and is established as having a known quality.

In addition to that, most of the persons who have already observed the RS1 have agreed that it offers supurb sharpness and detail, with several even going so far as to say it offers image detail and depth that, for the first time, allows an LCOS product to approach the performance of single chip DLPs in regards to same.

I personally don't see any need to worry about this particular aspect of the RS1's performance, but time will surely tell...

Regards.

Here is the full text of the post from Greg Rogers:

Very well written and succinctly put. This post was a great synopsis on resolution and it's too bad we can't put it in a FAQ or sticky somewhere. Too many people, even respected members of the forum think that resolution is completely dependent on the pixel count of a digital projector. They think that if projectors have the same count and all of the pixels are visible then the resolution must be exactly the same. This is simply not the case and Greg's post captures the reasons why very well. To be sure pixel count is one important aspect of resolution but many other factors also come into play, especially when comparing similar pixel count projectors.

As far as the resolution of the RS1 goes, there is also more to it than the Fujinon lens. Since the RS1 uses different chips than prior DILA projectors the new fill factor, new chip size and new liquid crystal uniformity may also play a role(compared to previous DILA and other 1080p native devices). When talking about sharpness and resolution it's hard not to disassociate contrast from the discussion because ultimately this is what resolution really is. So the fact that the RS1 is a huge jump in contrast for JVC may also play a big role in why it seems sharper. It would be very interesting to get real MTF data on projector reviews to take some of the subjectivity out of the relative image sharpness debate.

...In addition to that, most of the persons who have already observed the RS1 have agreed that it offers supurb sharpness and detail, with several even going so far as to say it offers image detail and depth that, for the first time, allows an LCOS product to approach the performance of single chip DLPs in regards to same.

I personally don't see any need to worry about this particular aspect of the RS1's performance, but time will surely tell...

Regards.

Exactly! All we have to go on at this time is what people are observing. From day 1 when folks first got a sneak peak at this thing back in CEDIA its been "all the rage". The more people that have seen it the more that have been wowed by it. I think I can recall just one person who said he thought it looked flat.

Furthermore cine4home who obviously knows his stuff and is well experienced in these pjs basically said that hands down the RS1/HD1 is the best looking home cinema pj he's ever experienced. Considering we do not have technical data at this point that's enough to keep me satisfied that this pj will deliver on all its hype.

Even though I rarely ever post here, I"ve been lurking around since the early JVC G series...

And I am every bit as excited about the RS1 as everyone else!

Just to add to the excitment, I wanted to add couple of things:

First - we still use one of the old g-1000 at work, and it's been used EVERY single day, for the past four years, for at least 2-4 hrs per day, sometimes for as long as 10 hrs in a day, and the only thing that we needed to do with it was change bulbs. That speaks volumes for JVC's quality. Add to those four years the fact that a few times we had a power outage/problems where the pj didn't have a proper cool down cycle, or newbees switching it off at the main switch, or sometimes very high temperatures (it is ceiling mounted, and it can get quite hot up there!)... and it still performs flawlessly.

Now on to the more important stuff, like the RS1's lens:

I worked as a photographer for many years, and have followed the development of various types of glasses, lenses etc for decades. And as much as photographers are a strange lot who love to believe that only Germans know how to make a good lens (Zeiss and Schneider come to mind) Fujinon has managed to surpass everyone in terms of quality and resolution.

I remember when a dark horse among medium format cameras entered the market some 15 yrs ago - it was the Fuji gx680. The big news was that it used Fujinon lenses; although it was compatible with any other large format lens system.

It was claimed that Fujinon lenses would deliver such unprecedented performance that even though gx680 was a medium format camera it would easily compete with large format! (Hence the camera was built with movements of a large format camera...)

People were sceptical, but, there was already talk of all kinds of new technologies that Fuji came up with to surprise us with their quality - for instance I remember that one of the major improvements was that they deceloped a new technique for their anti-reflection coating; instead of simple exposure of the lens elements to special kinds of vapors, they developed an approach which used electron beams!

This produced a lens with much less light dispersion then any other lens at the time and since then, Fujinon lenses are held in highest regard by those who know!

Even today if you look at gx680 and lenses people buy for it - they always prefer Fujinon lenses. They stood the test of time.

So I am really excited about RS1 using Fujinon lens, as JVC just couldn't have picked a better lens supplier. Fujinon has never dissapointed!

And at almost 2k resolution, lens becomes a very important part of the system.

For those who are still concerned, lens manufacture has changed drastically over the past few years. Years ago one couldn't use certain thickness glass, or certain refraction index, or even plastic elements... which is all used today. So it is very possible that today we can get a lens of a much better quality then a few years ago. Also, if JVC is planning on using an identical lens for different pjs, then Fuji would have a benefit of a large volume manufacture and that influences the price considerably. Just look at price difference of any "specialty" vs. "popular" lens out there, and you'll see what I mean.

Nice post Peter. I do large format photography myself, and even though I have never personally used Fujinon (I use Schneider), I agree with the reputation that Fujinon has garnered over the years. They are definitely held in high regard. I expect that reputation to hold up with the lens they supply for the RS1.

Thanks for the great perspective Peter.

Yes, it has a sleep timer.
I miss this function from a previous projector.

muncey

Hell
I can't believe I finally had the money to get on a prebuy list. Let alone a prebuy of such a ground breaking product. I can't remember anything in the past that continued to top itself day after day as more people got to review it !

Every time I read something it reaffirms my hopes of a good product like the RS1 . Wow what excitement I will actually have something ranked as good as the high end machines that will always be out of my reach.

Damn what an Adrenalin rush all of the recent info has been. And now even Jason will get to review a unit . So glad it is all coming down this way ! Johnathan

Anybody else have no interest in watching movies lately? All of a sudden my 7205 seems dull and lifeless. I have a huge pile of unopened HD DVD's in my media cabinet. February can not come soon enough.

Yes, you're all very luck (mumble mumble - uk pricing mumble avs mumble not shipping to uk mumble - bah humbug)
:D

Hell
I can't believe I finally had the money to get on a prebuy list. Let alone a prebuy of such a ground breaking product. I can't remember anything in the past that continued to top itself day after day as more people got to review it !

Every time I read something it reaffirms my hopes of a good product like the RS1 . Wow what excitement I will actually have something ranked as good as the high end machines that will always be out of my reach.



I agree 100%. I remember when the Qualia was introduced - I wanted one so bad I could taste it. I was lusting over the reviews. Well - at 30 grand it might as well cost a million. Ain't gonna happen, unless my wife lets me second mortgage our house or raid the kids college funds (LOL)!

So now another truly groundbreaking machine comes along and suddenly ...BANG - I CAN afford it! Who would have thought? So soon. Even more amazing (to me) is the fact that even if I had just won the $50 million lotto - I would still be buying an RS1 (as it's the current state-of-the-art?). Amazing times for us videophiles!

Anybody else have no interest in watching movies lately? All of a sudden my 7205 seems dull and lifeless. I have a huge pile of unopened HD DVD's in my media cabinet. February can not come soon enough.

LOL, I have also been buying a LOT of HD DVDs and BD from buy.com with google checkout, waiting to watch them on the RS1!!!

So I am really excited about RS1 using Fujinon lens, as JVC just couldn't have picked a better lens supplier. Fujinon has never dissapointed!


Interesting read Peter, thanks for posting. I used to have a G11 that a relative now has (who btw, is also on the RS1 prebuy). The G11 continues to run like a champ with no issues whatsoever. The dead pixel count hasn't changed, the image with a new bulb is just as bright as it used to be. All of this despite the fact that it has been overtemped several times due to bad hushbox fans and controllers. The old G series were built like a tank and they perform like one too.

As far as Fujinon quality goes, one of my interests is in astronomy and Fujinon has garnered a great reputation in this area too. Their large binoculars for example are exemplary.

I'm happy that someone was able to put my lens technology rambling in check! I sit corrected.

Does anyone happen to know what kind of lens JVC used in the HD2K?

Thanks.

Mark

So, is it too early to start speculating as to whether the RS1 will benefit from an outboard scaler? I know we will have the Gennum chip to work with, which is great, but do we have any idea of how it will be implemented?

Are most people who are on the RS1 preorder list planning on using a VP, or just going to use a switcher for connecting their sources to the PJ?


I've been curious about this as well. I have no doubt that a Crystallio 2 or other current generation would give benefit but the question is how much?

The Ruby's internal scaler is very good is some respects and very lacking in others. If the RS1 was very good in all respects I could be happy with it. I'm still looking ahead at the new Lumagen RadianceXD which might/should be excellent on all fronts. How much does the RS1 with Gennum close the gap on a Radiance? Impossible to know for a few months..

Yes, you're all very luck (mumble mumble - uk pricing mumble avs mumble not shipping to uk mumble - bah humbug)
:D

feelin your pain bro!

I've been curious about this as well. I have no doubt that a Crystallio 2 or other current generation would give benefit but the question is how much?

The Ruby's internal scaler is very good is some respects and very lacking in others. If the RS1 was very good in all respects I could be happy with it. I'm still looking ahead at the new Lumagen RadianceXD which might/should be excellent on all fronts. How much does the RS1 with Gennum close the gap on a Radiance? Impossible to know for a few months..

Hi Kraig, yup we won't know for sure until it ships. My guess though is that the internal Gennum will perform basic deinterlacing quite well and better than the Ruby and Pearl. I'll bet that most of the benefits from an outboard scaler will come down to additional features rather than basic deinterlacing and scaling.

As an example, I'm using a VP50 right now and one of the nice features on this particular box is that the 4x3 pillarboxes can be blanked/blacked out. My TWC cable box insists on using gray pillarboxes for 4x3 content which drives me nuts and it washes out some of the ANSI CR. I can't live without this simple feature even though it has nothing to do with cadence detection, deinterlacing, combing, noise reduction, etc. I assume the internal Gennum won't offer a feature like this so my VP50 is going to stay.

I'm happy that someone was able to put my lens technology rambling in check! I sit corrected.

Does anyone happen to know what kind of lens JVC used in the HD2K?

Thanks.

Mark

Good question, I don't recall ever hearing the name of the manufacturer although they did tout the fact that it was all glass construction with x numbers of elements, etc. It seems to do the trick though, I haven't noticed any weird distortions or fuzziness.

...I'll bet that most of the benefits from an outboard scaler will come down to additional features rather than basic deinterlacing and scaling...

Yep, agreed. Another example is that an outboard processor may provide the ability to adjust the hue, saturation, and lightness of each color RGBCYM individually which provides flexibility the RS1 apparently doesn't have for tweaking the color gamut as desired.

Do I understand correctly that the Gennum chip in the RS1 is the same as is used in the latest Marantz? If so then perhaps we can look at Greg's Marantz review WRT processing to get a good indication of how the RS1will perform in these areas?

Question re the brightness of the RS1: Cine4Home reports it to be 600 lumens in 'normal' mode, 700 in high lamp mode--both at 65K--and 830 lumens in high lamp slightly off 65K. Now PJ Central's '1080p shootout' reports the calibrated lumens of the HD81 to be 655 lumens in high lamp mode. Is the RS1 possibly brighter than the HD81?

Yep, agreed. Another example is that an outboard processor may provide the ability to adjust the hue, saturation, and lightness of each color RGBCYM individually which provides flexibility the RS1 apparently doesn't have for tweaking the color gamut as desired.

Do I understand correctly that the Gennum chip in the RS1 is the same as is used in the latest Marantz? If so then perhaps we can look at Greg's Marantz review WRT processing to get a good indication of how the RS1will perform in these areas?

Yup the Gennum VXP chipset in the RS1 is the 9351 which is the same as the Marantz and Optoma HD81. Implementations can vary even with the same chipset though but it does give a person a warm fuzzy that the processing in the RS1 could be very good.


Question re the brightness of the RS1: Cine4Home reports it to be 600 lumens in 'normal' mode, 700 in high lamp mode--both at 65K--and 830 lumens in high lamp slightly off 65K. Now PJ Central's '1080p shootout' reports the calibrated lumens of the HD81 to be 655 lumens in high lamp mode. Is the RS1 possibly brighter than the HD81?


The HD81 uses a 300 watt UHP (vs 200 watt UHP in the RS1), but it's hard to say how efficient it is. It could be that they stopped the light down quite a bit via an internal iris to achieve it's 6000:1 contrast. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up being pretty close though despite the fact that the HD81 spec says 1400 lumens. As I and others have been saying all along, most lumen numbers from manufacturers aren't at D65 or are otherwise very inaccurate. JVC is the only manufacturer that I know of that reports accurate specs and 700 true lumens at D65 is pretty bright!

Anybody else have no interest in watching movies lately? All of a sudden my 7205 seems dull and lifeless. I have a huge pile of unopened HD DVD's in my media cabinet. February can not come soon enough.


LOL :D I am doing the same thing! I have about 10 HD-DVD's that are still sealed and waiting for the RS1 to play with. My Panny 900 is almost painfull to watch at this point, but I do have some issues with it which have contributed to this feeling. I am also holding out on Cars SD-DVD.

Guys since some of you have a direct 'Bat phone' line to JVC engineers can you find out when they'll be releasing the attached remote?

Although the RS1 sounds like an amazing projector all on it's own, if they'll throw one of these remotes in as well ...I'm in ! :)

LOL :D I am doing the same thing! I have about 10 HD-DVD's that are still sealed and waiting for the RS1 to play with. My Panny 900 is almost painfull to watch at this point, but I do have some issues with it which have contributed to this feeling. I am also holding out on Cars SD-DVD.

I've signed up for Blockbuster because they have more HD-DVD's than Netflix. I've been watching a lot on my Panny 500 and loving it.

I also watched all three LOTR in HD on TNT. It was SPEC-TAC-ULAR even on the Panny 500! They've GOT to release that on HD-DVD. I have them on my DVR but it takes all the room. I'm going to have to erase at least one pretty soon here.

Can't wait for the JVC... I can't imagine LOTR on it.

Question re the brightness of the RS1: Cine4Home reports it to be 600 lumens in 'normal' mode, 700 in high lamp mode--both at 65K--and 830 lumens in high lamp slightly off 65K. Now PJ Central's '1080p shootout' reports the calibrated lumens of the HD81 to be 655 lumens in high lamp mode. Is the RS1 possibly brighter than the HD81?

You do the math. :D

LOL :D I am doing the same thing! I have about 10 HD-DVD's that are still sealed and waiting for the RS1 to play with. My Panny 900 is almost painfull to watch at this point, but I do have some issues with it which have contributed to this feeling. I am also holding out on Cars SD-DVD.

Are your 900 issues VB, FPN, MC, uniformity ? (as are mine w/ a 700)

Are your 900 issues VB, FPN, MC, uniformity ? (as are mine w/ a 700)


Definately VB (cant wait to be rid of this) and FPN. Maybe MC (have not really checked, but maybe this is contributing to the soft image I am seeing along with smoothscreen?). I have not noticed any uniformity problems.

My main issue with my 900 (and I may just have a bad one) is the lens. It is so loose. On a big bass/LFE hit my projector goes out of focus, zoom, and shift. I have made a make shift solution until I return this unit which has pretty much solved these problems, except for focus which I still check each time I turn it on, and usually have to adjust. This unit has just been a PITA since day 1. Like I said though I may just have a lemon as I have not heard to many people with these issues. My Z3 did not have these issues.

Definately VB (cant wait to be rid of this) and FPN. Maybe MC (have not really checked, but maybe this is contributing to the soft image I am seeing along with smoothscreen?). I have not noticed any uniformity problems.

My main issue with my 900 (and I may just have a bad one) is the lens. It is so loose. On a big bass/LFE hit my projector goes out of focus, zoom, and shift. I have made a make shift solution until I return this unit which has pretty much solved these problems, except for focus which I still check each time I turn it on, and usually have to adjust. This unit has just been a PITA since day 1. Like I said though I may just have a lemon as I have not heard to many people with these issues. My Z3 did not have these issues.


All reasons I am worried about manual lens on the RS1

All reasons I am worried about manual lens on the RS1

Sounds like you shouldn't get one then. Maybe enough people will listen to your negative pre-release speculation and cancel their pre-orders so I can get mine even sooner! :)

Not being negative, just worried. I don't want to spend thousands and then have to worry about **** like that

All reasons I am worried about manual lens on the RS1

Why? Tom metioned they were tight not sloppy.

I hope so, as I plan on buying one

Exactly... The manual lenses that I've used have generally been quite tight - often too tight in fact!
Ironically, I've actually had more problems with motorized lenses than manual lenses. The adjustments with the remote are usually far too coarse and in some cases, I've accidentally changed the zoom or focus (that I took forever to get *just* right!) when I had to dig out the remote to access an odd menu that wasn't in my pre-programmed set of macros.

Assuming the lens allows fine control and is reasonably tight, I'll be happy. My G-11 was built extremely well so I'm more than willing to assume the RS1 will be of equal quality. As soon as my wife approves of the upgrade, I'm ordering...

Nice. One more opinion on how fantastic this thing will look! Curious to what you think vs your Pearl.

Sounds like you shouldn't get one then. Maybe enough people will listen to your negative pre-release speculation and cancel their pre-orders so I can get mine even sooner! :)Given the pre-order price, for one thing, I highly doubt this will occur.

Dan

All reasons I am worried about manual lens on the RS1


After going through this with my 900, I understand your concern. However, like I said my Z3 did not have these problems and the JVC is clearly in a different league as far as build quality from the 900. The 900 has a joystick for gods sake as a lens shift :rolleyes: I highly doubt this will be an issue with the MUCH better built RS1.

I've signed up for Blockbuster because they have more HD-DVD's than Netflix.

I browsed through Blockbusters entire Blueray and HD-DVD collection online and I swear I could only find about 6 or 8 titles I was even interested in


I also watched all three LOTR in HD on TNT. ... They've GOT to release that on HD-DVD.

I'm watching those too, but I'm so dissapointed they are cropped to 16:9. I feel like I am watching and old 4:3 centerpunch of a 1.78:1 film presentation on VHS. It has really lessened my enthusiam in TNT's presentation - plus there is so much compression artifacts. These movies scream for BlueRay/HD-DVD.

On a big bass/LFE hit my projector goes out of focus, zoom, and shift.

good lord, is your sub turned up to 11? :)

good lord, is your sub turned up to 11? :)
:)

Exactly... The manual lenses that I've used have generally been quite tight - often too tight in fact!
Ironically, I've actually had more problems with motorized lenses than manual lenses. The adjustments with the remote are usually far too coarse and in some cases, I've accidentally changed the zoom or focus (that I took forever to get *just* right!) when I had to dig out the remote to access an odd menu that wasn't in my pre-programmed set of macros.

Assuming the lens allows fine control and is reasonably tight, I'll be happy. My G-11 was built extremely well so I'm more than willing to assume the RS1 will be of equal quality. As soon as my wife approves of the upgrade, I'm ordering...

For everyone with CH setups I can certainly understand their desire for a motorized lense. I don't do CH and currently have motorized lense (Ruby) and frankly agree with you Patrick. I never feel quite like I have the best control over focus. For a non-CH setup I'd take manual focus/lense anyday.

For everyone with CH setups I can certainly understand their desire for a motorized lense. I don't do CH and currently have motorized lense (Ruby) and frankly agree with you Patrick. I never feel quite like I have the best control over focus. For a non-CH setup I'd take manual focus/lense anyday.

I used to have the 900 and now I have a Pearl. While I liked the smoothness and precision of the manual control, the thing I love about motorized focus is that I can almost literally press my face against the screen and look at individual pixels when I focus :)

--
Steve

I was very excited about cine4home's preview of the RS1. The only thing that was a tad concerning with the measurements was the CIE chart showing the measured primaries. because apparently there is no color management system available to allow one to customize the primaries and secondaries to Rec 709 standards or to taste.

Overall I think the CIE measurements looked very good to me as it pretty much mimics the Ruby, and I've been very pleased with my Ruby colors.

However I was a little concerned about the cyan being shifted a bit too much toward blue unlike the Ruby.

So as a test I took my Sharp 10K and used its outstanding Color Management System (CMS) to create a gamut that matches what cine4home measured off the RS1. Of course this was done fairly roughly since I only had his graph and not actual data points to go by, so it had to be done by eye.

I was able to match his CIE very closely with my Sharp 10K. The only difference is that the RS1 measured a bit wider (to the right) of Rec 709 target for red than I could achieve with the Sharp 10K, and the RS1 green measured higher than I could achieve.

Of course, this is just a very rough experiment with lots of moving parts (this depends on cine4home's measurements being accurate and perhaps were not taken under ideal circumstances with time restraints, and who knows how well I matched his data points by eye etc etc) but I'm pleased to report that the color with my experimental gamut looks great!

I'm also especially pleased to report that the error in Cyan (a bit too blue) could not be discerned in viewable program material. Start Wars 3 in particular has a lot of cyan. I switched back and forth between this simulated cyan error and a corrected cyan that was properly balanced (between blue and green) and I couldn't detect any real difference in any scene no matter how much cyan was on the screen. This was a relief and shows that the despite looking fairly off in the CIE chart the eye is likely a lot less sensitive to errors in this region. Don't get me wrong - you can definitely see the difference with a cyan test pattern but it is fairly small even at that.

A couple other interesting points to note. One, from cine4home's CIE chart the Yellow of the RS1 looks better balanced and correct compared to that of the Ruby which favors a bit too much toward Red.

Two, I think skin tones on the RS1 will work out very nicely. However they will likely have a little red push based on what I am seeing and the fact that red and yellow (in particular) are a bit oversaturated. In comparison, skin tones look incredible if I set the Sharp 10K to use the exact Rec 709 standards for all colors. However this makes the rest of the picture a bit too bland for my taste. Therefore I am happy to trade for a tad of "blush" in the skin tones in return for an overall more vivid picture. Of course this is not specific to the RS1 - as an example the Ruby is the same way.

In summary, the gamut of the RS1 looks very promising and I see no concerns except perhaps for those who mandate Rec 709 to followed to a T and put this and perfect skin tones as the utmost priority. For those folks the Sharp 20K has the CMS controls they need.

Of course we do not have confirmation yet that the RS1 lacks color management that provides the flexibility to move these targets around, so some of this may be addressable in some fashion or another. For instance with the Ruby one could use the RCP controls a bit to make small improvements to things such as red push. Hopefully we will have similar controls at a minimum with the RS1.

Remember this is all total speculation and done mainly as a fun experiment so take these results with a grain of salt. Interesting findings I think nonetheless.

good lord, is your sub turned up to 11? :)

:p "But ours go to 11....."


I do have a big hump in the 15-35 region which I personally love for movies, so that is a big part of it. However, My Z3 never had these issues, and we are talking about HT projectors which should be built with these type of things in mind.

Good to hear about your experiments, lovingdvd! Talking about the color gamut, I posted a question in the "Preview" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9223223&&#post9223223) thread, but let me also post it here:

-----------------------------------------
From what I read it appears that JVC is using an UHP lamp with appropriate filters to correct for the spectrum that the bulb puts out. Interesting and elegant solution. This however raises a few questions in my mind:


Are the filters made of glass or are just plastic film?
I assume that they are subject to a fair bit of heat inside the projector. Could the filters fade/degrade over time?
Are they user replaceable?
Are they paired with the bulb? (I think that this is unlikely ... but you never know!)

Good to hear about your experiments, lovingdvd! Talking about the color gamut, I posted a question in the "Preview" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9223223&&#post9223223) thread, but let me also post it here:

-----------------------------------------
From what I read it appears that JVC is using an UHP lamp with appropriate filters to correct for the spectrum that the bulb puts out. Interesting and elegant solution. This however raises a few questions in my mind:


Are the filters made of glass or are just plastic film?
I assume that they are subject to a fair bit of heat inside the projector. Could the filters fade/degrade over time?
Are they user replaceable?
Are they paired with the bulb? (I think that this is unlikely ... but you never know!)


Yes I saw those. I don't think ANYONE will know the answers to those questions except JVC :)

Bottom line is that base on the preliminary measurements made by cine4home I am very happy to see what JVC has managed to do with the gamut. Basically we are getting the gamut of the Ruby (perhaps a tad more off in cyan and a tad more on in yell) but with a much less expensive UHP lamp. I assume too this means the unit will put out less heat and hopefully age slower than the reported fairly quick drop off in light output with the Ruby.

So as a test I took my Sharp 10K and used its outstanding Color Management System (CMS) to create a gamut that matches what cine4home measured off the RS1. Of course this was done fairly roughly since I only had his graph and not actual data points to go by, so it had to be done by eye.


Great idea, although how were you able to get the x,y numbers off of the cine4home chart? I realize that this isn't an exact model of the RS1 colorpsace but it probably comes close and it's very encouraging info. Thanks for sharing!

I'm watching those too, but I'm so dissapointed they are cropped to 16:9. I feel like I am watching and old 4:3 centerpunch of a 1.78:1 film presentation on VHS.
I agree. That's why I say they have GOT to realease these on HD-DVD.

plus there is so much compression artifacts. These movies scream for BlueRay/HD-DVD.
I didn't see this. Ignorance is bliss I guess. Or, having old projector technology that masks the artifacts is bliss.

Yes I saw those. I don't think ANYONE will know the answers to those questions except JVC :)

Bottom line is that base on the preliminary measurements made by cine4home I am very happy to see what JVC has managed to do with the gamut. Basically we are getting the gamut of the Ruby (perhaps a tad more off in cyan and a tad more on in yell) but with a much less expensive UHP lamp. I assume too this means the unit will put out less heat and hopefully age slower than the reported fairly quick drop off in light output with the Ruby.

Yes, I agree that at this stage JVC may well be the only ones who have the answers to these questions. The solution of using an UHP lamp with filters is indeed an ingenious first and we are being treated to a color gamut close to that of the Ruby without the "costs" in terms of heat (an important consideration for my room) that the xenon lamp imposes!

Nonetheless, to me these questions appear to be of some interest ... if the filters change/degrade with time, then would that impact the color gamut? I also wonder if the color uniformity across the screen is related to this...

I'm not trying to dampen any enthusiasm -- in fact I too am eagerly following every word that appears relating to this PJ and will almost certainly end up getting one from an early batch (I missed the pre buy :(). I'm prone to severe dlp headaches and have lived with an lcd PJ ... and now for me (like many others) JVC may hit a home run with this PJ!! Headache free contrast coupled with brightness, no screen door issues, a good color gamut, flexible placement options and low noise --- all for the price of a deeply discounted single chip dlp from just a couple of years back! Wow! :D

Notwithstanding all this enthusiasm, I'm hoping that someone with more experience than me (or greater access to JVC) could opine a bit more seriously on these questions. Somehow they seem akin to those that many have asked with respect to the longevity of LCD panels.

"The solution of using an UHP lamp with filters is indeed an ingenious first"

Panasonic is doing it with the AX100 and AE1000. In them the filter is actually motorized for extra lumens in some modes.

Shawn

And Epson was doing it before Panasonic beginning with the Cinema 500 about 3 years ago.

...and we are being treated to a color gamut close to that of the Ruby...

I spent some time thinking about this, trying to decide which gamut may be superior at least on paper. Each has its advantage. On the RS1 the hue is off some in cyan, but pretty close in yellow. And on the Ruby its vice-versa. I'd have to give the edge to the RS1 here, because I think the error in cyan is less noticeable than in yellow based on some experiments.

The Ruby's reds are quite a bit oversaturated, but I never found it bothersome. In this regard it may put out a little more of a dynamic, vivid image in terms of color particularly in the reds which seems to really draw people in.

At any rate, my guess is that this gamut and its targets were carefully chosen by JVC and this is the way they thought the unit looked best so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this for now until I can see it for myself.

Y
es, I agree that at this stage JVC may well be the only ones who have the answers to these questions. The solution of using an UHP lamp with filters is indeed an ingenious first and we are being treated to a color gamut close to that of the Ruby without the "costs" in terms of heat (an important consideration for my room) that the xenon lamp imposes!

Nonetheless, to me these questions appear to be of some interest ... if the filters change/degrade with time, then would that impact the color gamut? I also wonder if the color uniformity across the screen is related to this...


How is this an "ingenious first"? LCOS projectors have always used filters to produce the primary colors. The specific choice of filter has changed with each model, but the use of filters is basic to the design. I've not seen any indication of filters fading over time, but that is an interesting question. There is no reason to think that the filters contribute to uniformity problems; the primary causes of this are panel thickness and calibration.

William

How is this an "ingenious first"?

Panasonic is doing it with the AX100 and AE1000

And Epson was doing it before Panasonic beginning with the Cinema 500 about 3 years ago


My ignorance obviously! I stand corrected! I had concluded that this was a first based on the Google translation of Cine4Home's review (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools) where in section 2,1 (color extent) the translation yielded:

In the DLA-HD1 finds no xenon lamp use, which the purse thanks by clearly smaller running costs. Instead a 200W UHP lamp was blocked, how it is usual for home cinema projectors. This lamp offers however no as balanced spectrum, as the expensive and aufwändige xenon variant. In order to be received however no deficits in the colors, JVC an unusual beginning selected:

Inside the projector are special filters, which let happen only selected spectral portions filter undesired spectral portions of the UHP light and. Particularly disturbing yellow portions from green are eliminated in such a way, which comes the color representation to property. In this way the projector loses light (without Farbanpassung the HD1 would be too far over 1000Lumen able), but is as a similar color extent as with xenon to be realized. And the thought out method was confirmed also in our measurements: The projector actually has an uncommonly large color area, which can take up it even with Sony the Ruby.


The words, "In order to be received however no deficits in the colors, JVC an unusual beginning selected" threw me off and I concluded that this was an "ingenious first". I suppose what they meant was that it was a first for JVC?

Sort of brings to the fore what can be lost in translation (http://www.tashian.com/multibabel/)!!

In any event, its good to hear that there is no obvious evidence of filters fading and/or contributing to color shifts/uniformity.

I dont understand the benefit of adding filters to a machine that already just filters light. It's like adding salt to already salted pretzels. If you want more red or whatever, why not just calibrate the panels to do so. And the benefit of tweaking the panels is that you can do it at the level of a pixel. So if your manufacturing results in panels whose pixels do not behave uniformly identically, the offending pixels can be corrected.

Dont filters thereby just reduce brightness in this apparatus where colors are adjustable?

I dont understand the benefit of adding filters to a machine that already just filters light. It's like adding salt to already salted pretzels. If you want more red or whatever, why not just calibrate the panels to do so. And the benefit of tweaking the panels is that you can do it at the level of a pixel. So if your manufacturing results in panels whose pixels do not behave uniformly identically, the offending pixels can be corrected.

Dont filters thereby just reduce brightness in this apparatus where colors are adjustable?

I believe the gist of it is that the UHP bulb only can put light out within a given spectrum which does not naturally lend itself to producing a gamut near what is needed for our target color spaces like Rec 709. The filters therefore make adjustments to the light that brings it to the desired gamut.

OK, let's drop the "Xenon is better" myth. That's what it is. Company selling xenon based projector pays MBA type to come up with "why it's better" and people believe it.

The lamp produces light. Yes, the spectrum is different, but not anywhere near as different as marketing would have you believe. My measurements look far different from those shown in S---'s "white paper" for example. Note that S--- is now claiming to have fixed UHP and made it look like Xenon, after years of saying Xenon was the lamp of choice because of its spectrum... Sigh...

Lamp produces light, but we need primary colors Red, Green, Blue, so how to get these? That is done with filters in digtal projectors. DLP, DILA, SXRD, they all use color filters (single chip DLP puts them on a spinning wheel). The coordinates of the primaries, and thus the gamut, are determined by the filters.

William

I dont understand the benefit of adding filters to a machine that already just filters light. It's like adding salt to already salted pretzels. If you want more red or whatever, why not just calibrate the panels to do so. And the benefit of tweaking the panels is that you can do it at the level of a pixel. So if your manufacturing results in panels whose pixels do not behave uniformly identically, the offending pixels can be corrected.

Dont filters thereby just reduce brightness in this apparatus where colors are adjustable?

It doesn't work this way. The panels reflect light. There is no adjustment for color.

" I dont understand the benefit of adding filters to a machine that already just filters light. It's like adding salt to already salted pretzels. If you want more red or whatever, why not just calibrate the panels to do so."

In a nutshell.... you can't add what isn't there in the panels. You could only subtract from blue and green to try to equalize with the red.(Assuming you want white whites at 100% IRE)

By basically subtracting in the panel you loose some of that panels range of control over the colors and I think you could potentially run into the situation where at low levels you couldn't 'turn off' a color any more then it already was so you might get color shifts down low.

DILARD calibration software for the older JVC DILA projectors would suggest filters based on what color they ran out of first. By using that filter and having DILARD recalibrate one could typically increase CR of the projector without really loosing any brightness. I think in my setup CR increase something like 10% in this manor. To a whopping 650:1 or thereabouts... ;)

Shawn

It doesn't work this way. The panels reflect light. There is no adjustment for color.

William - Is there a technical reason why we don't see full color management systems in LCoS displays like what is offered in the Sharp 20K and Yahama DLPs? Such a feature would be very beneficial for Ruby and Pearl owners, and it sounds like this feature will be missing from the RS1 as well.

I'm just curious if there's something about the LCoS technology that precluded this or makes it exceedingly challenging, or whether its just a matter of manufacturers not giving high enough priority to including this as a feature.

I'd really like the ability to move the hue, saturation and lightness of the individual colors around but getting an external processor solely for this reason seems a bit excessive...

DILARD calibration software for the older JVC DILA projectors would suggest filters based on what color they ran out of first. By using that filter and having DILARD recalibrate one could typically increase CR of the projector without really loosing any brightness. I think in my setup CR increase something like 10% in this manor. To a whopping 650:1 or thereabouts... ;)

Shawn

Its funny you should mention that because I've been meaning to post about this related to the RS1...

From cine4home's initial measurements he reported something like 18,000:1 and 800+ lumens if you were willing to move away from D65 (which I am not). That being said, it seems like this technique of using filters could enable one to push the contrast and lumens up about 10-20% on the RS1.

The big challenge, however, is that with no color management system I don't think we'd be able to get the colors back to their Rec 709 targets...

I think what happens in LCD/LCOS is the lamp produces some spectrum of colors. The (three) filters select colors near the three primary colors defined by whatever spec you want them defined by. There's no way to modify this without using different filters. The LCD/LCOS is simply a transmissive (LCD) or reflective (LCOS) device.

For DLP, you have colored section of the wheels. You can leave a mirror positioned longer in a position to reflect that light to the screen. For instance, if you want more green, during the time period when the light shines through the green portion of the color wheel, you leave the mirror for a pixel positioned to reflect that light for a longer time period relative to the time period for which the green portion would be illuminated. In other words, if the green portion is illuminated for 1 second (totally not true, but easy to use), if the mirror is positioned to reflect the green for 0.5 seconds, you'll get one level of green onto the screen. You'll get a higher level of green if you reflect for 0.7 seconds.

Also, the mirrors in DLP can perform two functions -- light intensity and the time in a position of particular intensity (i.e., color saturation), while the LCD/LCOS pixels basically can only affect light intensity.

That's my theory, anyway.

In a nutshell.... you can't add what isn't there in the panels. You could only subtract from blue and green to try to equalize with the red.(Assuming you want white whites at 100% IRE)

By basically subtracting in the panel you loose some of that panels range of control over the colors and I think you could potentially run into the situation where at low levels you couldn't 'turn off' a color any more then it already was so you might get color shifts down low.


Shawn

ahh, yes. i see. to get the 'best' calibration you want to start as close to the sweet spot as possible so that any additional digital color correction has the range to do what you want. Now that you mention it, I remember the magenta filter business with dilard...

With all this talk about no constant aperture and loss of lumens, I ran across this blurb in the latest WSR issue ala Bill Cushman:

"Many forums have discussions that suggest the lens need to be constant aperture to have constant light output. That is incorrect. To have constant light output, the F-stop, not the aperture, must be constant. Since F-number is aperture divided by focal length, this means that to keep the same light transmission at the longest focal length, this lens would have its diameter increase by a factor of two. This would increase the cost of the lens by a factor of five or more, and make the projector much larger and heavier. That is why this is not done."

I don't quite understand it all but thought I'd throw it out there.

Note that S--- is now claiming to have fixed UHP and made it look like Xenon, after years of saying Xenon was the lamp of choice because of its spectrum... Sigh...


Too funny. The same thing is going on in the BD and HD-DVD wars. Sony er I mean S--- has been claiming that mpeg-2 is superior to VC-1 despite opinions to the contrary by every respected authority on the subject (and videophiles who have compared the two). Arrogance is one reason for the downfall of large companies and it's amazing to see S--- headed that way as they make loaded claims to try and shamelessly push consumers towards their products. There was a survey out recently that said that a majority of consumers are suspicious of S--- and don't trust their claims. This is one reason why.


Is there a technical reason why we don't see full color management systems in LCoS displays like what is offered in the Sharp 20K and Yahama DLPs? Such a feature would be very beneficial for Ruby and Pearl owners, and it sounds like this feature will be missing from the RS1 as well.


There is no reason why CMS can't be used in LCOS. In fact I think that some DILA RPTVs use it. My assumption is that it really doesn't have anything to do with the inherent properties of the device but rather it's just a signal processor that intelligently converts RGB for each pixel to a more desireable RGB (based on new primary and secondary adjustments).


From cine4home's initial measurements he reported something like 18,000:1 and 800+ lumens if you were willing to move away from D65 (which I am not). That being said, it seems like this technique of using filters could enable one to push the contrast and lumens up about 10-20% on the RS1.


This is true, UHP bulbs tend to be deficient in one color at D65. Adding a color correction filter will usually allow a 10-20% gain in CR. Wm used this technique when calibrating my UHP equipped HD2K and I assume the RS1 will be no different. Yeah 16500-18000:1 CR should be attainable :)

Too funny. The same thing is going on in the BD and HD-DVD wars. Sony er I mean S--- has been claiming that mpeg-2 is superior to VC-1 despite opinions to the contrary by every respected authority on the subject (and videophiles who have compared the two). Arrogance is one reason for the downfall of large companies and it's amazing to see S--- headed that way as they make loaded claims to try and shamelessly push consumers towards their products. There was a survey out recently that said that a majority of consumers are suspicious of S--- and don't trust their claims. This is one reason why.






This is a bit OT, but: I agree that saying mpeg-2 is superior to VC-1 was wrong, arrogant or at least hyperbole. But I don't think VC-1 is superior to mpeg-2 either. At least not in terms of picture quality. Give mpeg-2 enough of a bitrate, and it can look every bit (pardon the pun) as good as VC-1.

VC-1 is the preferred codec though because of it's efficiency.

...it's amazing to see S--- headed that way as they make loaded claims to try and shamelessly push consumers towards their products....

Sony seems to have forgotten the lesson it should have learned with the Betamax debacle. In that case they were technically correct, Betamax was a superior format but their arrogance and greed caused them to lose that format war. Right now, it looks like history may be repeating itself.

With all this talk about no constant aperture and loss of lumens, I ran across this blurb in the latest WSR issue ala Bill Cushman:

"Many forums have discussions that suggest the lens need to be constant aperture to have constant light output. That is incorrect. To have constant light output, the F-stop, not the aperture, must be constant. Since F-number is aperture divided by focal length, this means that to keep the same light transmission at the longest focal length, this lens would have its diameter increase by a factor of two. This would increase the cost of the lens by a factor of five or more, and make the projector much larger and heavier. That is why this is not done."

I don't quite understand it all but thought I'd throw it out there.

I think "constant light output" in this case would mean foot-lamberts and not total lumens. In other words, with a constant f-number lens the image wouldn't get any brighter or dimmer as you changed the focal length.

The distinction between f-number and aperture is a red herring, since most people mean f-number when they say aperture. They're not talking about the diameter of the iris opening.

--
Steve

This is a bit OT, but: I agree that saying mpeg-2 is superior to VC-1 was wrong, arrogant or at least hyperbole. But I don't think VC-1 is superior to mpeg-2 either. At least not in terms of picture quality. Give mpeg-2 enough of a bitrate, and it can look every bit (pardon the pun) as good as VC-1.

VC-1 is the preferred codec though because of it's efficiency.

No question that MPEG-2 can look good, I still haven't seen a BD that looks as good as the best HD-DVD though. Efficiency is an interesting point though because that's all a codec does (maximize PQ in a minimum of space). So if VC-1 achieves the same PQ in say 1/2 the space of mpeg-2 it's twice as good. The really ironic thing about BD is that they started off with mpeg-2 with the promise of VC-1 in the future but they are stuck on single layer 25GB so space is a consideration. You would have thought they would use VC-1 initially and then when space no longer became a concern with 50GB dual layer that they would then afford the luxury of using less efficient codecs.

Sony seems to have forgotten the lesson it should have learned with the Betamax debacle. In that case they were technically correct, Betamax was a superior format but their arrogance and greed caused them to lose that format war. Right now, it looks like history may be repeating itself.

Not to turn this into a Sony bashing thread, but some of the things they have done lately really makes a person scratch their head and wonder if there is any central management in the company anymore. They took a very risky strategy and staked the company on the success of Blu-ray, including the profitable console business and then the execution of BD was terrible. If BD was that critical to the company why release something like, "The FILTH Element"? They pick the title that videophiles adored and then used it to release the worst BD that has yet been delivered and then tried to blame it on Samsung. ROTFL! Then there were all the (so far) unfilfilled promises of 50Gb disk space. Oh yeah and then the PS3 launches (late) and it doesn't upconvert SD DVD's and it's BD player is incompatible with some of the released BD movies. A person just has to wonder what the deal is with this company. The other shocking thing is that Microsoft, a huge behemoth company that isn't really known for executing all that well seems to be trashing Sony in both consoles and HD-DVD even though it was an expected underdog in both areas.

Okay enough of the rant, back to RS1 goodness.....

Here is a bone!!!!! I know of at least one person who has received a PRODUCTION RS1 today. Not through normal channels, but they are starting to trickle out. So I would be surprised if they aren't shipping in volume earlier than expected.

No question that MPEG-2 can look good, I still haven't seen a BD that looks as good as the best HD-DVD though.

By saying this, you are implying that the reason is because most BD releases use MPEG-2, and I don't think that is the reason you haven't seen a BD that looks as good as the best HD-DVD.

Efficiency is an interesting point though because that's all a codec does (maximize PQ in a minimum of space). So if VC-1 achieves the same PQ in say 1/2 the space of mpeg-2 it's twice as good.

This may be semantics, but I would say it is twice as "efficient", not twice as "good". Twice as good would have the implication that PQ is "twice as good". I know you didn't mean that though.


The really ironic thing about BD is that they started off with mpeg-2 with the promise of VC-1 in the future but they are stuck on single layer 25GB so space is a consideration. You would have thought they would use VC-1 initially and then when space no longer became a concern with 50GB dual layer that they would then afford the luxury of using less efficient codecs.

Oh, I wonder about the logic as well. There are obviously "political" reasons behind some of these decisions. But I don't think that there have been too many BD releases that have been widely criticized for having MPEG-2 artifacts throughout.

A bunch of AVSers got together for a "shootout" with HD-DVD and BD releases. We did A/B comparisons of the same movies on both formats, with the BD version using MPEG-2 and the HD-DVD version using VC-1. The consensus? Virtually no difference.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=740325

Here is a bone!!!!! I know of at least one person who has received a PRODUCTION RS1 today. Not through normal channels, but they are starting to trickle out. So I would be surprised if they aren't shipping in volume earlier than expected.

NOW YOU'VE DONE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

That bit of news should at least double the post count here and cause Jason to receive a lot of phone calls! :D ;) :D

Oh, that's just wrong Mark...you HAVE to share how someone has already gotten their hot little hands on a production unit. :eek:

Isn't Jason reviewing an RS1 as we speak (type)? And even that is a "pre-production" model, isn't it? So it seems surprising that someone would have a final production model, even if obtained through other channels.

Not that I am complaining. Just jealous! ;)

Oh, that's just wrong Mark...you HAVE to share how someone has already gotten their hot little hands on a production unit. :eek:

My lips are sealed, but hopefully those who are getting these early production samples will start posting.

Isn't Jason reviewing an RS1 as we speak (type)? And even that is a "pre-production" model, isn't it? So it seems surprising that someone would have a final production model, even if obtained through other channels.


Very surprising, but true story.

with all the work you've done I'm a little saddened your not one of them Mark...

Very surprising, but true story.

Tom Stites doesn't count.

Very surprising, but true story.
Yeah, that's what I was told a few weeks back.One dealer assured me he would have at least one before Christmas and be selling them in Jan.

well Jason kept giving cryptic and non cryptic clues that it would be shipping earlier then expected....

hmmm....interesting. I wonder if we will get these a bit early then? I need to get on the ball and get my screen ordered and my old Severtsen up for sale :eek:

<----------franticly refreshing all threads for any sign of new tidbits...I know, I'm pathetic...

I hope not - just ordered mine today in anticipation of getting it in Feb. My house doesn't get completed until March so shipping in January is a little bit earlier than I would like - can't believe I might have that problem!

I hope not - just ordered mine today in anticipation of getting it in Feb. My house doesn't get completed until March so shipping in January is a little bit earlier than I would like - can't believe I might have that problem!

I know. It sounds wierd, but I would prefer if they stick to the Feb release date myself. I was planning on getting other things ready in Jan for the Feb arrival. However, I will not complain if it gets here early :)

Rich at AVS said he would be more inclined to believe they may miss the February date given the number of preorders. I guess we'll just have to see what happens - it will just sit in the box if it ships earlier I guess. :(

Getting the RS1 early would be a GOOD problem to have! :)

This may be semantics, but I would say it is twice as "efficient", not twice as "good". Twice as good would have the implication that PQ is "twice as good".

Doesn't it depend on how you use the "efficiency"? If you use the same physical space to store the same program, doesn't the codec with twice the efficiency look like it is playing at twice the bandwidth of the other? Twice the bandwidth could easily be called "twice as good" I would think.

Rich at AVS said he would be more inclined to believe they may miss the February date given the number of preorders. I guess we'll just have to see what happens - it will just sit in the box if it ships earlier I guess. :(

I can help you out. I'll take yours if it comes early. You can have mine from the AVS pre-buy if it comes later. No need to thank me for the offer. Just glad to be of service ;)

I can help you out. I'll take yours if it comes early. You can have mine from the AVS pre-buy if it comes later. No need to thank me for the offer. Just glad to be of service ;)

Well, I'd have to charge you a little more for mine since it cost me extra to get mine shipped early if that's the case. (Being I wasn't in on the Pre Buy) :D

Something tells me that's not going to be an issue....

Doesn't it depend on how you use the "efficiency"? If you use the same physical space to store the same program, doesn't the codec with twice the efficiency look like it is playing at twice the bandwidth of the other? Twice the bandwidth could easily be called "twice as good" I would think.

Like I said, it is semantics. The important thing to consider is picture quality. I don't really care how much space is being used or not used as long as the PQ is great (and audio doesn't suffer either). VC-1 is definitely NOT "twice as good" in terms of PQ over MPEG-2. Period.

Here is a bone!!!!! I know of at least one person who has received a PRODUCTION RS1 today. Not through normal channels, but they are starting to trickle out. So I would be surprised if they aren't shipping in volume earlier than expected.


I hope one of those people's Greg Rogers.

I know it's OT but this attitude of Sony's really chaps my hide. They seem to be promulgating absolute falsehoods in their press releases and training of Best Buy sales associates. The tech editor in SF's main newspaper claimed that 720p and 1080i were equivalent in lauding Blue-ray's 1080p @ 60Hz. The guys a Best Buy do the same when hawking Blue-ray players. Where do they get this stuff? It HAS to be Sony, looking for a reason 1080p @ 60Hz is so much superior to 1080i @ 60Hz. Never mind that movies are only 24 Hz anyway! I suppose for games and future movie technology it'll be better, but I don't care about either right now.

well Jason kept giving cryptic and non cryptic clues that it would be shipping earlier then expected....
I know. I think quite a few guys were chucking when I reported that I was in touch with a dealer who said he would have one in Dec. a month ago. I contacted that dealer and he says he has one too ;).

So where are the REVIEWS then?!?!?!?! If people had them this morning, they should have posted lengthy reviews with pics by now! :D

You would be surprised at how many dealers are neither audiophiles or videophiles. Just ask some what they are using at home. In many cases the answers will surprise you. I remember one dealer trying to sell me a 10k amp but his home system was using a 600.00 B&K. Said dealer with the sample unit does not have any for sale so he is distant now. Had he had something for sale my e-mail would be getting hit every few days with how great the projector is and if I am still interested :D . He is trying to get me to commit to one of the three he says he will have in Jan. Like I said before, Jason beat the hell out of his price. Glad to purchase from AVS.

No question that MPEG-2 can look good, I still haven't seen a BD that looks as good as the best HD-DVD though. Efficiency is an interesting point though because that's all a codec does (maximize PQ in a minimum of space). So if VC-1 achieves the same PQ in say 1/2 the space of mpeg-2 it's twice as good. The really ironic thing about BD is that they started off with mpeg-2 with the promise of VC-1 in the future but they are stuck on single layer 25GB so space is a consideration. You would have thought they would use VC-1 initially and then when space no longer became a concern with 50GB dual layer that they would then afford the luxury of using less efficient codecs.


what about using VC1 at 30-35mbs on a 50GB blu ray ? i want to see that. i dont care about efficiency: only result matters. sharpest image with no compression noise. film grain is ok. it's normal.

i guess Jason will post soon his RS1 review :D

i wonder if Widescreen isnt extremely pro DLP and Projectorcentral only pro LCD
i hope the RS1/ HD1 will finally make them change their bias :D

Too funny. The same thing is going on in the BD and HD-DVD wars. Sony er I mean S--- has been claiming that mpeg-2 is superior to VC-1 despite opinions to the contrary by every respected authority on the subject (and videophiles who have compared the two).
Well a certain pj maker reported recently that their competitor's product had uniformity issues becaused they used thinner LCOS panels. Of course now that said company hasw figured out how to make thin panels, they are now touting the benefits of thin panels. :) :)

Companies market what they have, it is up to consumers to seperate "marketing spin" from reality!

Well a certain pj maker reported recently that their competitor's product had uniformity issues becaused they used thinner LCOS panels. Of course now that said company hasw figured out how to make thin panels, they are now touting the benefits of thin panels. :) :)

Companies market what they have, it is up to consumers to seperate "marketing spin" from reality!


HHF-

You didn't do it right.

You need to say J-- said that S--- had uniformity issued because they used thinner LCoS panels.

;)

Chief replied to my e-mail a few weeks back that the mount should be availible by the end of this month.

I can assure you that will not happen, unfortunately.

I have been trying quite diligently for over a month now to hook JVC and Chief up together so that the proper SLB mounting bracket for the RS1 is available Day 1 - afterall Chief does need lead time to bring this to market. According to my contact, as of today Chief has not yet received any info needed to design this bracket. Here's hoping someone will come through soon.

I was saving my pennies for a Sim2 step up from 300e to 3000e. Now I'm not so sure. The street talk on the JVC unit is really explosive.

I can assure you that will not happen, unfortunately.

I have been trying quite diligently for over a month now to hook JVC and Chief up together so that the proper SLB mounting bracket for the RS1 is available Day 1 - afterall Chief does need lead time to bring this to market. According to my contact, as of today Chief has not yet received any info needed to design this bracket. Here's hoping someone will come through soon.

Looks like we'll be having to use the Chief universal mount. No way is Chief gonna have one ready soon enough. (dang)

Here is a bone!!!!! I know of at least one person who has received a PRODUCTION RS1 today. Not through normal channels, but they are starting to trickle out. So I would be surprised if they aren't shipping in volume earlier than expected.

This is shocking news!!! Could RS1's be shipping before CES!? :eek:

with all the work you've done I'm a little saddened your not one of them Mark...

I appreciate the thought. I was hoping that JVC might at least be able to share some of the packing peanuts from an RS1 container but I guess I'll have to wait until next year :)

Well a certain pj maker reported recently that their competitor's product had uniformity issues becaused they used thinner LCOS panels. Of course now that said company hasw figured out how to make thin panels, they are now touting the benefits of thin panels. :) :)

Companies market what they have, it is up to consumers to seperate "marketing spin" from reality!

Well to be fair though it wasn't J-- that made this claim but someone who works for them. It's also a true statement that Sony has had less than stellar shading/uniformity. You are right though that the proof is in the pudding. JVC needs to ensure that their uniformity is better than Sony's particular with the new 2 micron LC layer.

Mark,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if JVC offers you a job soon! :)

Wouldn't it be great to work for (with) Tom! :D

what about using VC1 at 30-35mbs on a 50GB blu ray ? i want to see that.

I want to see that too, but do you think we ever will?

Mark,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if JVC offers you a job soon! :)

Wouldn't it be great to work for (with) Tom! :D

Actually I did work with Tom!!

We both worked at HJT back in the day (about 10 years ago for me). I didn't know Tom though because he was a sales rep based in the SouthEast, but I remember Bill Bleha, Jack Faiman, Rob Budde, Rod Sterling and others. It was a fun job, but I left for more profitable ventures which ended up being a good thing because JVC eventually moved all of the work to Japan and only kept some of the marketing and sales folk.

Oh yeah and before anyone accuses me of pumping the RS1 because of past history with JVC, let me say that I haven't kept in touch with anyone in JVC since I left nearly 10 years ago and my interest in the RS1 is because of my interest in the technology itself and because I'm legitimately interested in getting one of these things into my HT to see what it will do...

Well to be fair though it wasn't J-- that made this claim but someone who works for them.

Mark,
I am at a loss to understand this distinction! A company is made up of the people that work for it.
William

Looks like we'll be having to use the Chief universal mount. No way is Chief gonna have one ready soon enough. (dang)

I don't want to have to think about that... The RPA-U seems like the smartest way to do it money-wise (since it can be reused as you keep upgrading pjs) but as mentioned earlier it doesn't provide as clean of a look or flush of a mount, and doesn't account for lamp / filter access.

Mark,
I am at a loss to understand this distinction! A company is made up of the people that work for it.
William

True, but not everyone is authorized to set policy or speak for the company.

After giving it some thought though I think I remember where this comment came from and the person who made it was authorized to speak for the company (at least via AVS). I don't think that this OP/spokesperson intended for the comment to be taken this way though. I think someone asked a simple question why a certain companies (Sony) shading/uniformity isn't typically as good as JVC and his response was because the LC layer is thinner. This was a true statement at the time because the RS1 was still just a prototype. I think the comment was simply talking about past history and current products.

Anyway, I don't think that it was an intentional slam against Sony just a simple resonse to an honest question that is often asked around here. It does point up why rep's don't post here often though. Prior posts can be taken out of context and misinterpreted. It takes a lot of effort to post clearly and accurately and any mistakes or even poorly worded phrasing can cause pain down the road. It's also complicated by the fact that they aren't at liberty to post some information so it becomes difficult to discuss even current products. Such is life at AVS...

Sony seems to have forgotten the lesson it should have learned with the Betamax debacle. In that case they were technically correct, Betamax was a superior format but their arrogance and greed caused them to lose that format war. Right now, it looks like history may be repeating itself.

I work daily by email & phone with probably the largest manufacturer of CDs & DVDs on the east coast in getting promotional product sent out. Music industry products. S.O.T.A. huge facility. And engineering type persons that I work in same area with are saying (if I recall correctly) 90% or higher on Q.C. passed discs with HD-DVD and the exact opposite, like 8 or 9 out of 10 failed with Blu Ray. Uhh...that's a problem.

Dear Mark

Has the decision been made to include the required vertical stretch of 2.35:1 to fill the panel and then in turn us to use the anamorphic lens for CIH?

Thanks

Ben

You would be surprised at how many dealers are neither audiophiles or videophiles. Just ask some what they are using at home. In many cases the answers will surprise you. I remember one dealer trying to sell me a 10k amp but his home system was using a 600.00 B&K. Said dealer with the sample unit does not have any for sale so he is distant now. Had he had something for sale my e-mail would be getting hit every few days with how great the projector is and if I am still interested :D . He is trying to get me to commit to one of the three he says he will have in Jan. Like I said before, Jason beat the hell out of his price. Glad to purchase from AVS.

That's not because they're not audio- or videophiles, it's because normal people can't afford this stuff. How much do you think a salesman makes? To afford a 10k amp, you need to be a doctor, CEO, lawyer, etc. A salesman wouldn't be able to afford such an amp.

Has the decision been made to include the required vertical stretch of 2.35:1 to fill the panel and then in turn us to use the anamorphic lens for CIH?Erm. There's a whole thread on this forum dedicated to the fact that this has not been implemented.

Yes I understand it has been discussed. But I remember somewhere an official or one in the know. Beleives that the preproduction unit cant but the final production unit will or be looked at including this feature.

So lets hear it!

Ben

Regarding CIH, as I have posted in another thread, I have received no information from the factory to indicate that the feature can or will be implemented when the product ships in February. If and when I get definitive information to the contrary, I will post it here.

As for the subject of uniformity, many factors can cause non-uniformity, LCD layer thickness consistency is but one of them. The devices used in the RS1 are very different than the SXRD devices, one of the major differences being that these chips use a digital vs analog backplane.

Manufacturing expertise and IP could account for a difference in device uniformity when both utilize similar LCD layer thicknesses...remember, JVC has been manufacturing LC Light Valve and LCOS devices for over 30 years and delivering DILA based products since 1997. I also made no reference to whether or not the new devices had better or worse uniformity when compared to our earlier devices including those used in the HD10K.

Cheers,

That's not because they're not audio- or videophiles, it's because normal people can't afford this stuff. How much do you think a salesman makes? To afford a 10k amp, you need to be a doctor, CEO, lawyer, etc. A salesman wouldn't be able to afford such an amp.
No not in this case. Said dealer is a multi-millionaire.

I don't want to have to think about that... The RPA-U seems like the smartest way to do it money-wise (since it can be reused as you keep upgrading pjs) but as mentioned earlier it doesn't provide as clean of a look or flush of a mount, and doesn't account for lamp / filter access.
What's up with the ebay universal mounts. I see Chief universal mounts for 50 to 60 bucks?

I can assure you that will not happen, unfortunately.

I have been trying quite diligently for over a month now to hook JVC and Chief up together so that the proper SLB mounting bracket for the RS1 is available Day 1 - afterall Chief does need lead time to bring this to market. According to my contact, as of today Chief has not yet received any info needed to design this bracket. Here's hoping someone will come through soon.
My engineering dept is currently working on a solution for this. It should be completed toward the end of Dec.

Thank you,

Mitchell Pieper
Inside Sales/Customer Service
Chief Manufacturing
Phone: 952-894-6280 x3822
Fax: 952-894-6918
mitch.pieper@chiefmfg.com




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email]bulldoggin2]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 7:30 AM
To: Mitch Pieper
Subject: Mount for new JVC DILA projector JVC RS1


Do you have a mount for this projector? If so what model?

No not in this case. Said dealer is a multi-millionaire.

Then he got to be a millionaire by not buying 10k amps and having other people whose money is soon foolishly parted to buy said amps.

Then he got to be a millionaire by not buying 10k amps and having other people whose money is soon foolishly parted to buy said amps.
Then he would not have a million dollar sail boat now would he :D?

My engineering dept is currently working on a solution for this. It should be completed toward the end of Dec.

Thank you,

Mitchell Pieper
Inside Sales/Customer Service
Chief Manufacturing
Phone: 952-894-6280 x3822
Fax: 952-894-6918
mitch.pieper@chiefmfg.com




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bulldoggin2@bellsouth.net [mailto:bulldoggin2@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 7:30 AM
To: Mitch Pieper
Subject: Mount for new JVC DILA projector JVC RS1


Do you have a mount for this projector? If so what model?

I guess it depends on how you interpret "working on a solution", as that can mean its on the block for design and a planned product but they are awaiting specs. He probably asked and was told that was indeed the case, and expected it to be ready by end of Dec assuming they'd have a response from JVC shortly.

However I am quite certain that as of yesterday they do not have the information from JVC necessary to proceed. I do not know what the hold up is but I would think it would be in JVC's best interest to get this information out to mount manufacturers ASAP.

The last I heard from JVC was that their headquarters was working directly with Chief on this. However according to Chief they haven't heard anything at least as of yet. :(

I want to see that too, but do you think we ever will?

who knows.. ihave doubts because efficieny above all else rules....

I'm a new member and this is my 1st post. I want to thank all of you for your great knowledge, I'm learning so much that I need to know right here on this forum. I'm now building my HT room and I am on the pre-buy list for the RS1 (many thanks to Jason). Now to my question: Will the Da-Lite Tensioned Cosmopolitan Electrol Screen HDTV Format Size 65" x 116" - 133" Diagonal Size - High Contrast Cinema Perf Surface with 1.1 gain work for this PJ in a 15'x33' bat cave with slanted ceiling(8'-16' high)?

I'm a new member and this is my 1st post. I want to thank all of you for your great knowledge, I'm learning so much that I need to know right here on this forum. I'm now building my HT room and I am on the pre-buy list for the RS1 (many thanks to Jason). Now to my question: Will the Da-Lite Tensioned Cosmopolitan Electrol Screen HDTV Format Size 65" x 116" - 133" Diagonal Size - High Contrast Cinema Perf Surface with 1.1 gain work for this PJ in a 15'x33' bat cave with slanted ceiling(8'-16' high)?

Everything you need to know is here: Will this projector/screen work in my room? - A tutorial: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=753497&page=1

Can anyone tell me where the RS1 will be playing.
I looked for JVC ,but I don't see them on the floor.
Will they be showing the projector in a privite room?

Thanks Glen :)

JVC Professional will have a suite at Caesar's Palace in the Palace Tower...not sure of Suite number but will post here if find out. RS1 and some other products will be shown there.

Thanks for the help LovingDVD!!

Rich at AVS said he would be more inclined to believe they may miss the February date given the number of preorders. I guess we'll just have to see what happens - it will just sit in the box if it ships earlier I guess. :(

Remember most bulb warranties are only 90 days, so you might want to pull it out of the box and fire it up a few times just to make sure the bulb doesn't pop right out of the box (does anyone know the actual length of JVC's bulb warranty?)

JVC Professional will have a suite at Caesar's Palace in the Palace Tower...not sure of Suite number but will post here if find out. RS1 and some other products will be shown there.

Tom, Thanks much! Hope it's a big room.

How do you think the JVC stacks up against the Panny? It's one or the other for me since I need the horizontal lens shift.. Also .. many have stated the are on the "pre-order" list for the JVC from this site? How do I get on that list? First time post... great site..

How do you think the JVC stacks up against the Panny? It's one or the other for me since I need the horizontal lens shift.. Also .. many have stated the are on the "pre-order" list for the JVC from this site? How do I get on that list? First time post... great site..

If you read through this thread, you'll see that the JVC is being compared to the Pearl and to numerous other pj's that go for double its price and more, and so far, appears to be holding its own quite competently...in other words, I think it's safe to say the Panny isn't even in the same league as the JVC, and would not compare favorably to it.

The preorder you see mentioned has ended, quite some time ago, but I gather AVS is still offering a compelling deal on the JVC. I'd give them a call.

Any thoughts about running a DVDO Iscan VP50 into the JVC? I'd like to get the best possible picture out of my HD cable box & am interesting in converting 1080i to 1080p.. However.. I read the JVC will convert 1080i to 1080p on its own.. Is the DVDO worth the extra $2500? Any thoughts R appreciated.. thanks much.

[QUOTE=units]If you read through this thread, you'll see that the JVC is being compared to the Pearl and to numerous other pj's that go for double its price and more, and so far, appears to be holding its own quite competently...in other words, I think it's safe to say the Panny isn't even in the same league as the JVC, and would not compare favorably to it.

Well, ProjectorCentral seemed to pick the Panny as the best 1080p pj in this price range currently on the market.. thus I doubt the JVC blows it away. Also, the Panny is only $4K... what are we looking at for this baby for street prices?? $5K? How much are these things going for with the pre-sale?

Any thoughts about running a DVDO Iscan VP50 into the JVC? I'd like to get the best possible picture out of my HD cable box & am interesting in converting 1080i to 1080p.. However.. I read the JVC will convert 1080i to 1080p on its own.. Is the DVDO worth the extra $2500? Any thoughts R appreciated.. thanks much.

I'm using a VP50 right now and plan on using it with the RS1. The internal Gennum will likely offer excellent basic deinterlacing and scaling, but dedicated VP's have a lot of features that make them attractive. As an example the VP50 performs 1080i60->1080p24 3:2 judder removal on 24hz film sources and it's unlikely the internal Gennum will do something like this. Whether these features are worth an extra $2500 to someone is another question that only the buyer can answer.

[QUOTE=units]Well, ProjectorCentral seemed to pick the Panny as the best 1080p pj in this price range currently on the market.. thus I doubt the JVC blows it away. Also, the Panny is only $4K... what are we looking at for this baby for street prices?? $5K? How much are these things going for with the pre-sale?

Projector Central hasn't reviewed the JVC so they can't compare it, so I wouldn't doubt the superiority of the JVC based on Projector Central's pick. I'm on the pre-buy list and price difference is a non-issue when you look at 15,000:1 on/off.

Well, ProjectorCentral seemed to pick the Panny as the best 1080p pj in this price range currently on the market.. thus I doubt the JVC blows it away. Also, the Panny is only $4K... what are we looking at for this baby for street prices?? $5K? How much are these things going for with the pre-sale?

If you refer to this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768789 and read it through, you'll see that Cine4home has established that, at least based on a preproduction unit, the JVC appears to have performance that, like I said, outpaces several pj's at many times its price...

Certainly don't want to start a flame war, but yes, I think it is safe to say that the JVC will, in fact, "blow away" the Panasonic, and by a ridiculous margin at that.

ProjectorCentrals comparison is moot, as the JVC is not even a candidate in that comparison.

I'm certain the Panasonic will cost less than the JVC, so if that's your primary concern, by all means go Panasonic and enjoy.

Lastly, as I stated before, the preorder that everyone refers to has been over for nearly a month. Also, the only prices allowed to be discussed openly in the forums are MSRP, and that for the JVC is $6295.

For street price, instead of asking repeatedly in the thread, you might want to actually call a dealer (like AVS for example), and ask them same.

Regards.

I don't doubt that the JVC is superior ... (thus the reason I likely will get one) however, I suspect the difference will not be referred to as "blowing away" the panny. (which has recieved favorable reviews as well and carries a similar MSRP of $5999.) I suspect you can get a better deal on the Panny though because it is distributed through established on-line discount pj retailers, that don't seem to carry JVC products.

Price will always be a consideration, to say its not is silly.

Can someone post the AVS phone # .. I don't see it listed anywhere. I'd like to know how much it will actually cost to pick one of these up.. thanks.

www.avscience.com

Jason,
is it too late to get in on the power buy?

I don't doubt that the JVC is superior ... (thus the reason I likely will get one) however, I suspect the difference will not be referred to as "blowing away" the panny. (which has recieved favorable reviews as well and carries a similar MSRP of $5999.) I suspect you can get a better deal on the Panny though because it is distributed through established on-line discount pj retailers, that don't seem to carry JVC products.

I'm on the other side of the fence. Given the specs, the reviews to date and practically unanimous positive reaction to a side-by-side showing at CEDA, I "suspect" a comparison to the Panny will be a rout.
It all depends on how you define "deal". Given this JVS compares well with a $15k (right?) Sharp and is, in some ways, better, I think it's a heck of a deal compared to the Panny.

But... we shall see. :)

Does anyone know if this projector will be able to handle 1080p over its component input? Other than RGB, this is the only way the XBox 360 can output 1080p. I've got other sources that will provide HDMI or DVI->HDMI, but it would be nice if my xbox could also provide a 1080p signal the RS1 handles.

Does anyone know if this projector will be able to handle 1080p over its component input? Other than RGB, this is the only way the XBox 360 can output 1080p. I've got other sources that will provide HDMI or DVI->HDMI, but it would be nice if my xbox could also provide a 1080p signal the RS1 handles.

Why not just set the 360 to output 1080i or 720p and let the RS1 upscale to 1080p? The scaler in the RS1 is probably better anyway. I dont think the RS1 takes a 1080p signal over anything but HDMI.

Why not just set the 360 to output 1080i or 720p and let the RS1 upscale to 1080p? The scaler in the RS1 is probably better anyway. I dont think the RS1 takes a 1080p signal over anything but HDMI.

Because the 360 is capable of outputting 1080p/60. Outputting 1080i would only be acceptable if 24fps film was being output. Something like a game output (or something streamed over the network) at 1080p should, ideally, be able to be input natively.

Because the 360 is capable of outputting 1080p/60. Outputting 1080i would only be acceptable if 24fps film was being output. Something like a game output (or something streamed over the network) at 1080p should, ideally, be able to be input natively.


I dont understand this I guess. From what I know the 360 games are native 720p so there will be upscale either way. The 1080p output on the 360 is an upscaled output, not a native from what I have read. IF this is true, then why not let the RS1 upscale?

I dont think the RS1, Mits 5000, or Pearl can take a 1080p input over component. Not sure about other units.

I dont understand this I guess. From what I know the 360 games are native 720p so there will be upscale either way. The 1080p output on the 360 is an upscaled output, not a native from what I have read. IF this is true, then why not let the RS1 upscale?

I dont think the RS1, Mits 5000, or Pearl can take a 1080p input over component. Not sure about other units.

The 360 (as of a recent update a month or so ago) is capable of outputting 1080p for games or streamed videos that can handle it. Existing games will doubtfully go over 720p or 1080i but they can support 1080p if they want to and aren't pushing the hardware hard enough where the extra gpu requirements of 1080p aren't a problem. The HD-DVD add-on also supports 1080p, so that's probably the most obvious choice. If you already have a 360, $200 for HD-DVD support is pretty nice.
Since the 360 doesn't have an HDMI output, component and RGB is the only way of getting 1080p from it. It's fairly common for devices to not handle 1080p over component, but some definitely do. It would just be nice if the RS1 was one of those that did. :)

It sounds like the RS1 is being released in the US via the JVC consumer division as the HD1 with the silver faceplate. So maybe there really will be a pro and consumer model with the only difference being the pro model will have the black faceplate and the RS1 name while being sold through JVC Pro. Talk about confusing...

Granted this press release is about 10 days old, but what's interesting is that it was posted on the US Consumer division website and uses the HD1 moniker rather than the RS1 in addition to showing photos of the the silver flaceplate rather than black. Why would they do this if the model sold in the US is the RS1 with the black faceplate?

http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?urlid=MPPress&item=529&pageID=1

"NEW YORK, December 14, 2006 – JVC today announced a new home theater front projector that offers unprecedented performance and brings its exclusive D-ILA technology to a new, broader audience. The new DLA-HD1 is a full HD front projector with a native contrast ratio of 15,000:1 – the industry’s highest (as of December 14, 2006) native contrast ratio and a level that ensures outstanding black reproduction without sacrificing picture brightness since there is no iris mechanism".

“High definition TV content is now widely available and a growing number of consumers are ready to move up to screen sizes that only a front projector system can provide,” explained Mike Holmes, Vice President, Consumer Display Division, JVC Company of America. “With the introduction of our DLA-HD1, a top-performing front projection system is now a real alternative for a broad range of consumers.”

Since this projector is at the mid to lower price range for what is supported to be excellent video, could a person get two projectors for more saturation and brightness and if so would it help?

It would be $12,000 AND stiil lower than most all 3 chip DLPs.



Joey

Since this projector is at the mid to lower price range for what is supported to be excellent video, could a person get two projectors for more saturation and brightness and if so would it help?

It would be $12,000 AND stiil lower than most all 3 chip DLPs.

Joey

I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to daisychain two PJs to overlap the output at the screen using a single input source.

Well, ProjectorCentral seemed to pick the Panny as the best 1080p pj in this price range currently on the market.. thus I doubt the JVC blows it away.Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My opinion (and many others) questions what ProjectorCentral are reporting.

Other reviewers have expressed disappointment at the "soft" image produced with the Panasonic SmoothScreen technology.

It seems obvious to me that ProjectorCentral got a bad Sony Pearl (bad convergence and sharpness). This is Sony's fault for poor production tolerance, but I think it likely that a good Pearl will blow away the Panasonic. And the RS1 looks to be better than the Pearl.

[QUOTE=Mark Petersen]It sounds like the RS1 is being released in the US via the JVC consumer division as the HD1 with the silver faceplate. So maybe there really will be a pro and consumer model with the only difference being the pro model will have the black faceplate and the RS1 name while being sold through JVC Pro. Talk about confusing...

Granted this press release is about 10 days old, but what's interesting is that it was posted on the US Consumer division website and uses the HD1 moniker rather than the RS1 in addition to showing photos of the the silver flaceplate rather than black. Why would they do this if the model sold in the US is the RS1 with the black faceplate?
[QUOTE]

Very confusing indeed. However we had heard a while ago that there would be two versions. One consumer, one pro. Hopefully Tom or Jason can chime in soon and give us the details about the two versions. All I know is I want the all BLACK unit.

Since the 360 doesn't have an HDMI output, component and RGB is the only way of getting 1080p from it. It's fairly common for devices to not handle 1080p over component, but some definitely do. It would just be nice if the RS1 was one of those that did. :)

I think its a good thing that most displays won't accept 1080p over component. Maybe enough people will complain that Microsoft will finally WAKE UP and realize that it needs to add HDMI via a dongle or something. There is no way I am going back to feeding my pj an analog source (i.e. component). For this reason I have not and will not purchase the HD DVD add-on.

I think its a good thing that most displays won't accept 1080p over component. Maybe enough people will complain that Microsoft will finally WAKE UP and realize that it needs to add HDMI via a dongle or something. There is no way I am going back to feeding my pj an analog source (i.e. component). For this reason I have not and will not purchase the HD DVD add-on.

I believe Microsoft is kind of stuck with what they have for now, so as I'm also stuck with what they have at the moment, it would be a nice thing to support. :)
It's been speculated that they will release a new rev of the hardware in the future which will have HDMI outputs (and probably HD-DVD built-in). Certainly not anytime 'real' soon though.

I believe Microsoft is kind of stuck with what they have for now, so as I'm also stuck with what they have at the moment, it would be a nice thing to support. :)
It's been speculated that they will release a new rev of the hardware in the future which will have HDMI outputs (and probably HD-DVD built-in). Certainly not anytime 'real' soon though.

While they are at it I hope they will make it run a lot cooler and quieter. If so I'd definitely pick one up.

Re mounting the RS1, I think I might like to mount it upside-down, on the bottom of a shelf on the back wall. The idea is to drill holes through the shelf (at the right places), and simply put a bolt (with a large washer to the top of the shelf) through the shelf, screwing the bolt into the appropriate part of the base of the RS1. Does this seem reasonable to those of you that know about this sort of thing? Are there screw holes in the bottom of the 'feet' of the pj, for example? Any other suggestions? (This will be my FIRST pj!)

For those who ask about my DIY mount.


I will be using for the RS1 also!

*If the lens is Solid and Firm




http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4530/dsc01698wj6.jpg

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/5601/dsc01699dn3.jpg

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/8279/dsc01700gf4.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8093/dsc01710bd9.jpg

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5473/dsc01705pt2.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/893/dsc01715am6.jpg

Originally Posted by lovingdvd
I think its a good thing that most displays won't accept 1080p over component. Maybe enough people will complain that Microsoft will finally WAKE UP and realize that it needs to add HDMI via a dongle or something. There is no way I am going back to feeding my pj an analog source (i.e. component). For this reason I have not and will not purchase the HD DVD add-on.

to each his own I guess. I don't know why having the option for 1080p through component would force you back to doing anything you don't want to do. You could still continue to use HDMI but people like Patrick would get what they want also. What's wrong with that?

SOWK: thanks for re-posting your pics. I like this setup very much. It will help to keep the pj as low as possible (since my shelf will have to go above a door frame) for use with a HP screen.

For those who ask about my DIY mount.


I will be using for the RS1 also!

*If the lens is Solid and Firm


Ah.....a Vandersteen man. Are those 3s or 3As? One other question. How did you get the wiring from your equipment to the PJ? Under the carpet?

Patrick,

Being able to output 1080p over component is probably more related to marketing than image quality. 1080p is pretty high bandwidth for component. I suspect you would get a much better picture using 720p or even 1080i.

William

Nice setup SOWK. Don't know if I would want to be the one sitting in that middle chair though. ;)

[QUOTE=SOWK]For those who ask about my DIY mount.


I will be using for the RS1 also!

*If the lens is Solid and Firm

What a great looking, clean installation!

to each his own I guess. I don't know why having the option for 1080p through component would force you back to doing anything you don't want to do. You could still continue to use HDMI but people like Patrick would get what they want also. What's wrong with that?

I never said I didn't want the feature. Sure it would be great if it was there - the more features the better. What I was saying is that MS really needs to get their act together. For them to say that the X360 is ushering in the next generation of HD gaming and then give only analog outputs is a joke.

All I know is I want the all BLACK unit.

Me too! All I want for Christmas is a HD1! Er RS1!

Ah.....a Vandersteen man. Are those 3s or 3As? One other question. How did you get the wiring from your equipment to the PJ? Under the carpet?


Actually 2Ce Sigs Fronts, VCC-5 center, 1C rears

In mid 2008, I will be getting Quatros!

Then the setup will be

Quatros front, VCC-5 center, 2Ce Sigs Surrounds, 1C rears.

:)


Cables are run along the wall with extra carpeting that was left over placed on top.

You can't see any of it as it is behind the Curtins.

I never said I didn't want the feature. Sure it would be great if it was there - the more features the better. What I was saying is that MS really needs to get their act together. For them to say that the X360 is ushering in the next generation of HD gaming and then give only analog outputs is a joke.

I agree. No HDMI output was a mistake for sure.

Nice setup SOWK. Don't know if I would want to be the one sitting in that middle chair though. ;)

The shelf is rated for 130lbs,

And there is no way the bolts will rust and the projector fall! ;)

The shelf is rated for 130lbs,

And there is no way the bolts will rust and the projector fall! ;)

Trivial question: do the nuts on the underneath side of the shelf serve any purpose? It's neat that you can use the nuts on the top side to make fine adjustments in leveling the pj, and also in raising or lowering it once the shelf is permanently mounted.

Me too! All I want for Christmas is a HD1! Er RS1!

Mark, I ask you this please, because nobody is going to give me an answer to a simple question, so you are my last chance to know.
As I see a lot of programs coming from my dish, and these programs are mainly in 4:3 aspect ratio, (in Europe so far, in America I don't know), I need to know what happens to a 4:3 signal.
Because people I know told me their projectors, (for instance the Sharp 21000), are not able to show 4:3 images in their native aspect by HDMI.
The vp "streches" those images in a compulsory 16:9 format with the zoom.
I don't know if this is true or not, what do you think about the HD1?
Would you ask this please, to the JVC staff when at CES?

thank you
Francis

I never said I didn't want the feature. Sure it would be great if it was there - the more features the better. What I was saying is that MS really needs to get their act together. For them to say that the X360 is ushering in the next generation of HD gaming and then give only analog outputs is a joke.

Yeah......I agree.

Trivial question: do the nuts on the underneath side of the shelf serve any purpose? It's neat that you can use the nuts on the top side to make fine adjustments in leveling the pj, and also in raising or lowering it once the shelf is permanently mounted.

I'm gambling that the nuts underneath are there to lock the setting once he has the PJ leveled where he wants it....but I probably should let SOWK answer that one.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My opinion (and many others) questions what ProjectorCentral are reporting.

Other reviewers have expressed disappointment at the "soft" image produced with the Panasonic SmoothScreen technology.

It seems obvious to me that ProjectorCentral got a bad Sony Pearl (bad convergence and sharpness). This is Sony's fault for poor production tolerance, but I think it likely that a good Pearl will blow away the Panasonic. And the RS1 looks to be better than the Pearl.

Projector Central updated their review of the Panny & noted that the SmoothScreen Technology wasn't an issue with the production model. I'm lookinn forward to some more head to head comparisons with the RS1 .. since the Panny seemed to beat out the Pearl according to ProjectorCentral.. I'm going to run a DVDO IScan VP50 anyway ... thus I'm questioning if I will even notice much of a difference .. however 15,000/1 sounds like it is worth waiting for.. I do like the fact that the Panny is reported as being the quieter of the two..