Well I just got back from some serious drinking er ahem I mean socializing with the folks from JVC at the AVS/Digital Connection party. You've got to hand it to Kei Clark, not only is she pretty but she throws a great party :) The JVC reps were out in force at the EH Expo. I had a chance to speak at length with many of the fine folks at JVC from Tom Stites, Jack Faiman, Bill Bleha, Gary Klasmeier, Rob, Ken, Alex and Tom's boss Lon Mass. It was also great meeting so many AVS'ers today. I had a chance to meet with John Ballentine, Daniel Hutnicki, Ximori, Lindahl, Lisa Issacsson. It was great meeting with everyone and talking to people who are also passionate about video and HT.

I collected the questions about the DLA-RS1 that everyone on the forum wanted answered and Tom Stites was kind enough to have a long sit down with both John Ballentine and I so that we could answer these questions. It occurred to me that this is probably an AVS Forum first - a virtual interview where you guys asked the questions and I just wrote down the answers.

Before we go onto the questions, one note about this DLA-RS1 prototype - It's the same exact protoype that was shown at CEDIA. It's a very early prototype and JVC feels confident that the product will be improved before it ships. The unit shown at CES will be a real production unit and if what JVC says is true, it will be worth a trip to CES to see the full potential of this fine machine!

Here is the list which is a mix of questions for Tom as well as my own observations of the RS1 that people asked me to make.


Sharpness - excellent (more on that later)
Brightness - Yes this projector will have 700 lumens not 800 and JVC will be accurate with this spec (700 min at D65 high bulb setting).
ANSI CR - JVC doesn't release ANSI CR specs because most consumers don't understand it and it can cause confusion with on/off specs. Verbally though, they are measuring 300-350:1 although this spec may go higher as has on/off CR.
On/Off CR - 15000:1 and this is a conservative number :)
Noise level - It was quiet, but forget measuring it or basing any assumptions from this prototype machine because the fan was cranked on high and the final product will be more refined.
low level detail - excellent (more on this later).
shadow detail - really impressive (more on this later).
handling of high apl scenes - excellent.
color accuracy - The color was excellent although the HD10K has a wider color gamut and is exceptional in this regard. So this is one area the HD10K still holds an advantage over the RS1.
video noise - source video noise was apparent. The HD-DVD of U-571 does have film grain in scenes and this was apparent on the RS-1 but it didn't add any additional noise. It seemed very true to the source, but more on this later.
deinterlacing quality - EDIT: I took some notes about the 1080i60 2-3 pulldown to 1080p60 deinterlacing quality and then removed them after I remembered seeing the HQV logo. Tom has clarified that the Toshiba HD-A1 was in fact fed directly into the RS1 and the HQV was being used on the HD10K. As I posted earlier, the 1080i60->1080p60 looked every bit as good as my VP50 and HQV solutions at home. There was no obvious soft 'bob" 1080i deinterlacing going on. We'll have to wait for more info about 480i, pal and odd cadence detection and deinterlacing.
2.35:1 CH Stretch - The RS1 currently doesn't do this, but this is one feature that JVC wants to add before the product ships.
Convergence - This was difficult to gauge on the prototype without putting up a test pattern which I was hesitant to do with so many people wanting to see this projector. Tom however said that the final product will ship with less than a 1 pixel error.
User level convergence adjustment - Yes! User accessible convergence adjustments allowing for a full panel shift to get overall convergence within 1 pixel. This is similar to what is in the HD10K.
Shading / White level uniformity - Excellent on this prototype. I really looked hard to spot uniformity issues but I couldn't see any. JVC has been good in this respect for the past few years and they felt this trend will continue with the new panels.
RS1 vs Pearl, HD10K, Marantz 11S1, Sharp - This is the question that everyone wants to hear. More on that later (sorry).
Air Flow - Yes the intake is on the right front (if you're looking into the lens) and the exhaust is on the left front. The exhaust is ducted so it doesn't blow straight out, but off to the side. It's also a low velocity / low volume and not as hot as you would expect.
black level uniformity - I looked hard for *any* evidence of brighter or darker corners but I couldn't see any at all. With blanked video the black level uniformity was perfect.
pixel grid / SDE - There is a very fine SDE on this projector, but it's improved over the Pearl or my HD2K (both of which look very similar in this respect). People talk about the HD2K not having SDE but the reality is that it's noticeable (but not objectionable) from a ways back. On the RS1 it's hard to see from 3 feet away.
light spill - none
Sealed optics? - The panels are sealed but the optics are filtered similar to the HD10K, HD2K, etc.
bulb modes - There will be two bulb settings but they won't be that far apart. Maybe 20% or ~200 lumens apart (700 and 500 lumens for example). Both will have the same color tracking (no color shifting), sound levels for each setting is TBA.
warranty policy - 2 years. Dead pixels (not sure how many or on what colors), bad convergence (>1 pixel), bad shading will be covered.
SD/HD colorspace support and ability to modify color primaries - SD and HD colorspaces are supported and auto selected based on resolution (support for user overeride may be added). Color primaries are fixed in the optics although RGB gains can be modified allowing shifts within the gamut.
User upgradeable via flash updates - Yes to some extent (earlier JVC projectors had this feature but it was unused as there were no SW updates).
1080i60 to 1080p24 3-2 cadence removal for film sources - This is a feature that JVC is interested in and they will look into it to see if their architecture supports it. EDIT: I should make it clear that the RS1 doesn't currently support it, but JVC may add it *if* the architecture supports it.
Gennum model and features - Gennum 9351 more info on features will be forthcoming.
lamp replacement cost - Should be roughtly the same as the HD2K/HD10K (less than $500 list).
UHP behavior and lifetime - JVC feels that the bulb lifetime, aging/brightness profile should be similar to the past UHP bulbs although it is a different lamp.
Number of gamma memories - 4 memories that are user accessable (similar to the HD2K).
Final ANSI spec - As mentioned above it is around 300-350:1 although I'm curious if this number will be revised up as has the on/off CR..
Chip backplane - This chip uses a digital backplane using PWM drive techniques. The granularity is fine enough though that it doesn't suffer from artifacting like earlier PWM drive technologies (early Plasma and DLP for example). We froze the screen and I looked hard for any sort of shimmer or unsteadiness in pixels but it was rock solid. JVC also mentioned that the analog backplane suffered from crosstalk which could in rare cases cause subtle ghosting effects which are now history. They didn't say it, but I assume the PWM resolution is 12-bit similar to the earlier JVC digital panels.
Panel refresh rate - 24p frames use 96hz refresh (24p up'ed to 48p with 2x refresh), 50p frames use 100hz refresh.
low level noise / dithering / banding / countouring - I wasn't able to spot any other than those that you see in the source (HD-DVD logo for example).


Edit: Part 2 can be found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8928782&&#post8928782

Part 3 can be found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8933626&&#post8933626

Photos can be found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8927930&&#post8927930
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8928055&&#post8928055

More to follow....

Thanks for your effort!

Great information! Thanks Mark!!!!! And very nice re the SD/HD color space auto detection.

Therese

Wow lots of useful info!
I don't see how much more convincing people need to get this pj other than what you posted.

Mark,

Thank you for sharing this information. I know a lot of people have been waiting for such information. I have already joined the prebuy w/AVS based on others information and seeing your input really seals the deal for me. I look forward to the additional details on the items you mentioned.

Thanks,

Jay

There have been many reports that they where using the same prototype from cedia.

Was the unit on display only outputing 10000:1 CR?

Wow!! Thanks for gathering all that information in one place, Mark. And thanks to the JVC guys for being so responsive to your questions. It really speaks well of them.

Thanks Mark!

This sets a new benchmark for AVS forum roving show reports/reporters. Hell I'd chip in to help pay for expenses for reports like this.

Mark - Another question..Were you able to verify if the 700 lumens (D65K) were independent of throw?

Thanks
Therese

pixel grid / SDE - There is a very fine SDE on this projector, but it's improved over the Pearl or my HD2K (both of which look very similar in this respect).

Improved over the Pearl?

Great report, Mark! I am looking forward to your "more on this later" addendum reports...:)
Color primaries are fixed in the optics although RGB gains can be modified allowing shifts within the gamut.
I'm not clear what you mean by this. Does the RS1 have a true color management system (like Sharp or Marantz)? Are all of the primaries and secondaries movable within the CIE colorspace, as well as having adjustments for luminance?

Thanks again...Wonderful news!!

I would also like some verification that throw does not affect lumen output if possible.

Thanks for your hard work! As you know, we all verry much appreciate your efforts!

This unit sounds incredible. User adjustable convergence? Awesome!

There have been many reports that they where using the same prototype from cedia.

Was the unit on display only outputing 10000:1 CR?

I brought my CA813 light meter and Tom said that if I waited for a lull in the foot traffic that they wouldn't mind turning off their U-571 demo for a short while allowing me to take some measurements. We both came to the conclusion however that it's a pointless exercise because this is an early prototype. The fact that they were open to the idea though showed that they didn't have anything to hide.


And thanks to the JVC guys for being so responsive to your questions. It really speaks well of them.


Yeah the JVC guys were all really helpful and very patient. Tom Stites in particular was just a wealth of information, not just about JVC products but he understands the technology well so he could quickly answer questions from all over the map, from 3-2 telecine judder to color primaries... He also has a discerning eye and knows what elements make up a good picture. Definitely a seasoned veteran.


This sets a new benchmark for AVS forum roving show reports/reporters. Hell I'd chip in to help pay for expenses for reports like this.


I accept paypal! :D (j/k of course and before anyone asks, no I don't work for JVC nor do/did I accept bribes from them (monetarily :cool: , sexual ;) , or other :confused: ). But that's only because they didn't offer any :D ).

Seriuosuly though, collecting questions from AVS'ers and then getting them answered was fun and this is a great idea for future shows if we can get people to volunteer. EH Expo was easier because of the RS1 focus though.

Wasnt trying to imply they where hiding anything. Just that if they where showing the same unit at cedia the impression might be based off of 10k instead of 15k =)

But I think Jason implied in another thread that changes had been made to the prototype.

I cant beleave they said they would allow you to take readings! Talk about beleaving in your product.

Mark, thanks for this great information. This sounds extremely impressive!

Whoo hoo! This is excellent! Thanks Mark for doing my job. :) I couldn't make it to the show.

hehe thats because your too busy taking pre-orders!

Tom Stites previously indicated that the lens was a constant aperture, so no lumen loss with zoom.

Any idea if there is the option/mode for lower contrast but higher lumen -> for sports watching ?

- Andy

...
...color accuracy - The color was excellent although the HD10K has a wider color gamut and is exceptional in this regard. So this is one area the HD10K still holds an advantage over the RS1....
Panel refresh rate - 24p frames use 96hz refresh (24p up'ed to 48p with 2x refresh), 50p frames use 100hz refresh....


More to follow....
Good job Mark,


At least I still one advantage in color accuracy but what about optics? Is the RS1's optics going to be comparable to the HD10K? What will be the panel refresh rate for 60 Hz i and p...and the big question: Are you going to sale your HD2K and get a RS1?


Also is there any info on supporting HDMI1.3 input and if so does it support over-sampled (hi bit) color?

Great Job Mark!

This is very helpful with these preorders!

Tom Stites previously indicated that the lens was a constant aperture, so no lumen loss with zoom.

Any idea if there is the option/mode for lower contrast but higher lumen -> for sports watching ?

- Andy

I too would be interested in that option. In any event, I have put my name down on the pre-order list.

Mark - Another question..Were you able to verify if the 700 lumens (D65K) were independent of throw?


No, although if you follow JVC products they are always conservative on their specs both in lumens and contrast. It's likely that this is the reason for the recent 800 to 700 lumen downgrade (so they can ensure that the production units exceed 700 lumens).


Improved over the Pearl?


The SDE on the RS1 is improved over both the Pearl and the HD2K although this is subjective because I wasn't A/B testing them at the same time. After 2 years with my HD2K though, I have a pretty good feel what it looks like :). I mentioned in another thread that I was surprised how similar SDE looks between the Pearl SXRD and the 2nd gen DILA panels, I expected more differences between them (SXRD and 2nd gen DILA) and didn't see it. There was much bigger difference in SDE between the 1st (G series) and 2nd gen (SX/HX/HD series) DILA. The 3rd gen panels in the RS1 seem to be a further refinement although not by a huge amount. I also wasn't able to verify the focus which plays a big roll in examining SDE, the pixels looked well defined and sharp though.

Speaking of SDE, John Ballentine pointed out that the SDE on the HD10K + anamorphic lens demo was almost nonexistant. The combination of added pixel density and slightly more optical distortions nearly removed SDE completely from this demo. The HD10K was projecting onto the same size screen as the RS1, but it was done so anamorphically whereas the RS1 was 16x9 letterboxed onto a 2.35:1 screen. The lower pixel density (larger projected pixels) and sharper optical path (without the additional anamorphic lens) made the RS1 SDE a little more noticeable although without the anamorpihc lens I feel that this would be reversed.


I'm not clear what you mean by this. Does the RS1 have a true color management system (like Sharp or Marantz)? Are all of the primaries and secondaries movable within the CIE colorspace, as well as having adjustments for luminance?


It's not a true color management system. It's similar to the HD2K/HD10K wjere the color gamut within the CIE colorspace is fixed, although points within the colorspace can be shifted with the RGB gains.


I would also like some verification that throw does not affect lumen output if possible


I didn't take any measurements but Tom said that the lumen output won't be affected by throw. In actual practice I'm sure that there will be a small difference, but it shouldn't be as much as the Ruby.


Whoo hoo! This is excellent! Thanks Mark for doing my job. I couldn't make it to the show


You couldn't make it because you're too busy trying to find more room under the mattress for all of that RS1 cash. :) I would have gladly traded places (and cash flow) with you. I also have to point out that Jason's CEDIA impressions were dead on. The RS1 is a great machine and Jason was one of those at CEDIA who got it right (more on that later).


Any idea if there is the option/mode for lower contrast but higher lumen -> for sports watching ?


There is the high and low bulb setting modes. I also forgot to mention that there are a few color temperature settings (for the unsophsticated non AVS members who prefer something besides D65). Also there are the 4 gamma settings which is useful - As an example my Wm Phelps optimized HD2K uses these for: SD and HD sources coupled with and without a CCF filter. A person could also use a different gamma profile for something like say sports vs film.

Thanks for all the info Mark, looking foward to your further comments. I preordered mine from Jason yesterday and can't wait till they start shipping.

Good job Mark,


At least I still one advantage in color accuracy but what about optics? Is the RS1's optics going to be comparable to the HD10K? What will be the panel refresh rate for 60 Hz i and p...and the big question: Are you going to sale your HD2K and get a RS1?


Also is there any info on supporting HDMI1.3 input and if so does it support over-sampled (hi bit) color?

More on this later, but the HD10K was truly stunning. The image this thing throws has got to be the best kept secret of the past year. This is the first time I've seen it properly setup in a well light controlled room and it was gorgeous. My HD2K should be similar but it's not. It was one of the very early HD2K's and Tom mentioned that there was a manufacturing problem that was fixed early on involving contamination of the 1/4 wave plate that hurts ANSI CR. It turns out that Rob Budde from JVC field support was there and he lives close by and he offered to come over and clean it. This made the trip well worth it for me :) (thanks in advance Rob). The RS1 throws a very similar image to the HD10K, but with more depth in the really dark scenes.

As far as the 48hz flicker that you see on the HD10K, the new drive scheme should fix it. The more I've dug into this, it's apparent that the analog backplane DILA devices were driven at the vertical refresh rate of the signal. Basically frame rate and panel refresh rate were coupled 1:1. Which correlates with what Wm was measuring. I believe that this is where the flicker that you see at 48hz on the HD10K is coming from. The RS1 on the otherhand will refresh @ 96hz for 24p film sources so there shouldn't be any flicker *or* judder :)

I forgot to add 1.3 HDMI support to my list of questions. Sorry :(

Oh yeah and I'm on the prebuy list and after seeing the unit I thought enough about it's price and performance to call a relative and tell them to get in on the prebuy too.

RS1 vs Pearl, HD10K, Marantz 11S1, Sharp - This is the question that everyone wants to hear. More on that later (sorry).

The world's personal productivity gridns to a halt as we await Mark's report! :)

Type faster!!

Please!!!!

:D :D :D

Oh yeah and I'm on the prebuy list and after seeing the unit I thought enough about it's price and performance to call a relative and tell them to get in on the prebuy too.

Yuppers. All set. :)

Tom said the unit was the same machine from CEDIA. The improvements that are coming out are due to continued development changes in Japan rather than on this prototype. One thing that was really encouraging is that JVC feels very strongly that the final production unit will be much improved over the prototype that they are showing now.
" - Mark Petersen


Thought I would copy this over from the other forum =)

so it is possible you where only seeing 10k:1 contrast?

so it is possible you where only seeing 10k:1 contrast?

Stay tuned, for the next update as this will surprise a few people :)

For $50 more you can get it in Pink like the Razor phone?

I met Mark at the party and not only does he know his stuff, but he is a nice guy too

Will the production units be able to cut my grass? :D This is about the only thing missing that concerns me........

Mark, I think you said that the production version will be shown at the CES. Yet I still haven't seen JVC listed as an 'exhibitor' on the CES list; only 'JVC Mobile'. Did Tom give any specifics about how the RS1 will be shown there? Will it be an 'invitation only' showing in a private room? (And if so, how can one get on the list of invitees!?)

I met Mark at the party and not only does he know his stuff, but he is a nice guy too

Daniel! It was great meeting and hanging out with you! Thanks for the kind words, it was really a pleasure. You need to post more often and let people know you're still part of the AVS family. One interesting thing about Daniel that people may get a kick out of is that he is both a CPA and a HT enthusiast. He can probably find a big enough tax break for people so that they can buy a 3 chip DLP :)

Is any dimensional information available yet? Looking for lens location, length/width/height, etc.

Will the production units be able to cut my grass? :D This is about the only thing missing that concerns me........

Yes! It's also a little known fact that it can trim hedges too :D

Seriously though, as I said in another thread this thing is just a projector. Yes it throws a pretty picture but it won't solve world hunger or anything. We AVS members are a fanatical crowd to get so excited about a video projector... we should be saving the fanticisim for something more important like grapefruits or women shoes or something :eek:


Mark, I think you said that the production version will be shown at the CES. Yet I still haven't seen JVC listed as an 'exhibitor' on the CES list; only 'JVC Mobile'. Did Tom give any specifics about how the RS1 will be shown there? Will it be an 'invitation only' showing in a private room? (And if so, how can one get on the list of invitees!?)


Yes, JVC said that it will definitely be at CES. Tom also answered the onsite vs offsite question but I forgot the exact answer. I believe he said it was offsite but not closed to the public. Tom should verify this though.

Mark, thank you for the detailed responses and for all of the great information you’ve given. If you don’t work as a contributing AV editor for someone you should (hint hint WSR or Secrets - or even AVS as he’s helped sell a lot of PJ’s I’m sure - give this guy a call).


Thanks again.

Will the production units be able to cut my grass? :D This is about the only thing missing that concerns me........
No, but they adapted the robot style vacuum cleaners so it will run around your theater floor and clean up. :)

Is any dimensional information available yet? Looking for lens location, length/width/height, etc.

Lens is centered, 18" x 6-3/4" x 17-3/8" (W x H x D), 26.5 lbs

[QUOTE=Mark Petersen]

(more on that later)
[QUOTE=Mark Petersen]

Want more now! :p

Thanks for the report. Well done!

Something else unique I noticed about the RS1:

Several of us were standing there talking as the credits began to roll for U-571. Suddenly we looked over and were surprised to see how “black” the screen suddenly was. Reminded me of my CRT - where it’s impossible to tell whether it’s on or off. And many times I’ve left it on for a day or two, thinking it’s off. Not just that - but when the credits appeared - it was shocking as they were brilliant white and looked to be very 3-D. They just “popped out” Very vivid and sharp, especially with that “black” background. The contrast between the “white” credits and “black” background was incredible. It actually looked eerie. The credits seemed to “float” in the air. (OK so I’m a credit freak)

On another note I can’t say enough about Tom Stites and the other JVC guys. Yes - they are very excited and proud of their achievement. And loved talking about it and showing it off. These are the type of people I want backing my product.

Lastly - I was also ecstatic to hear them mention factory convergence calibration to within one pixel. This shows they really care about quality control. And they’re well aware of the importance of uniformity. And if for some reason there is any uniformity problem - the projector is considered to be NOT within spec.

Mark, I will search around for this info but in case I don't find it and if others are interested...

What is the offset, is it fixed or variable
Is there a powered focus, etc

Thanks

No, but they adapted the robot style vacuum cleaners so it will run around your theater floor and clean up. :)

Fantastic! I may pre order another one!

yes, but does dry and wet. Standard models will only do dry vacuum. I am getting the deluxe model with the wet vacuum. That way, if i drop popcorn and drink, the projector can clean it up

Something else unique I noticed about the RS1:

Several of us were standing there talking as the credits began to roll for U-571. Suddenly we looked over and were surprised to see how “black” the screen suddenly was. Reminded me of my CRT - where it’s impossible to tell whether it’s on or off. And many times I’ve left it on for a day or two, thinking it’s off. Not just that - but when the credits appeared - it was shocking as they were brilliant white and looked to be very 3-D. They just “popped out” Very vivid and sharp, especially with that “black” background. The contrast between the “white” credits and “black” background was incredible. It actually looked eerie. The credits seemed to “float” in the air. (OK so I’m a credit freak)

On another note I can’t say enough about Tom Stites and the other JVC guys. Yes - they are very excited and proud of their achievement. And loved talking about it and showing it off. These are the type of people I want backing my product.

Lastly - I was also ecstatic to hear them mention factory convergence calibration to within one pixel. This shows they really care about quality control. And they’re well aware of the importance of uniformity. And if for some reason there is any uniformity problem - the projector is considered to be NOT within spec.

Thank you! this is exactly what I need to hear....Its not just about whats on paper. Its whats perceived in person. Not that this stopped me from pre-ordering. :) I also would like to thank Mark, for all his well put-together info. Keep it commun!

Something else unique I noticed about the RS1:

Several of us were standing there talking as the credits began to roll for U-571. Suddenly we looked over and were surprised to see how “black” the screen suddenly was. Reminded me of my CRT - where it’s impossible to tell whether it’s on or off. And many times I’ve left it on for a day or two, thinking it’s off. Not just that - but when the credits appeared - it was shocking as they were brilliant white and looked to be very 3-D. They just “popped out” Very vivid and sharp, especially with that “black” background. The contrast between the “white” credits and “black” background was incredible. It actually looked eerie. The credits seemed to “float” in the air. (OK so I’m a credit freak)..



That sounds awesome John. Thanks for posting that.

What is the offset, is it fixed or variable

Based on the screen they were showing ,a 96 wide 2.35 aspect ratio, the projector could be mounted 15 inches from the top of the screen

It is a variable offset. They are saying 80% (but based on what I am not 100% sure).

Short or long throw on the lens? Any lense calculator available?

1.4 to 2.8

There you go. The longest range I have ever seen on a projecotr.

Yes I have a screen calculator.

Mutiply your screen width by 1.4 - 2.8 to figure out how far back you need to put your projector :)

It is a variable offset. They are saying 80% (but based on what I am not 100% sure).

I asked Tom in one of these threads and he confirmed that it is measured from the center of the vertical center of the screen. Effectively the projector can be mounted up to 30% (80%-50%) the screen height from the top of the screen. So for a 54 inch high screen, the projector can be ceiling mounted up to about 16 inches from the top of the screen.

There is a very nice pic of the offset situation on the Japanese website. The vertical offset is as described above. The horizontal offset is 34% of the width. Thus if your screen is 104" W (a 119" diag 9x16), then the center of the lens can be .34x104" = 35.4" to the left or right of the screen center

Just adding my thanks to the rest & hoping they add the anamorphic stretch to production model

There we go then. Thanks for checking with them.

Did anyone bother checking light spill around the picture area. This is the one thing that sort of bothered me with the Sony VPL VW50.

Thank you

Did anyone bother checking light spill around the picture area. This is the one thing that sort of bothered me with the Sony VPL VW50.

Thank you

Mark reported in one of these threads that there was 0 light spill.

so, will an in home isf callibration be needed for this PJ?

It never hurts...I will be calibrating mine and reviewing it, and obviously I will post results.

It never hurts...I will be calibrating mine and reviewing it, and obviously I will post results.

Hopefully the rumors are true and your going to be getting one in early for an in home review.

Me too.

Has a ceiling mount for the JVC been discussed or asked about?

Chief RPA-U. Universal mount, works with most projectors and is very flexible.
www.chiefmfg.com

Will this be a good projector for 138" screen?

1080i60 to 1080p24 3-2 cadence removal for film sources - This is a feature that JVC is interested in and they will look into it to see if their architecture supports it. EDIT: I should make it clear that the RS1 doesn't currently support it, but JVC may add it *if* the architecture supports it.



We may have found something to criticize about the RS1 after all.

Come on JVC, we really want....er need this!

Will this be a good projector for 138" screen?
Well no way to just say yes or no. There are a lot of factors. Now it definitely can handle a 138" with proper room, screen, etc... but we would need to know that info to specifically say yes or no to your setup.

I asked Tom in one of these threads and he confirmed that it is measured from the center of the vertical center of the screen. Effectively the projector can be mounted up to 30% (80%-50%) the screen height from the top of the screen. So for a 54 inch high screen, the projector can be ceiling mounted up to about 16 inches from the top of the screen.

Can I get some clarification on this (I'm a bit of an idiot - this is my first foray into a dedicated projection room)? Does this mean 16" ABOVE the top of the screen, or 16" BELOW the top of the screen?

Can I get some clarification on this (I'm a bit of an idiot - this is my first foray into a dedicated projection room)? Does this mean 16" ABOVE the top of the screen, or 16" BELOW the top of the screen?

In that example involving a celing mount, it would be ABOVE the top of the screen. Keep in mind the lens shift is variable so you can mount the projector on the vertical axis anywhere inside the screen area plus 30% of the screen height outside the screen area. The max horizontal shift is 34% of screen width as noted above.

The Japanese brochure at this link should answer all your questions:

http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/press/2006/dla-hd1.pdf

McCabe is correct...it basically depends on if you want to mount it high or low. High you have to invert the projector, low, it is rightside up.

In that example involving a celing mount, it would be ABOVE the top of the screen.
[...]
The Japanese brochure at this link should answer all your questions:


Thanks - perfect!

Okay so I'm working on part 2 of the review, but I thought I would share a couple of photos. As I mentioned the RS1 prototype is the same one from CEDIA which doesn't have the black faceplate (or the white faceplate for the Japanese market), this has been well photographed already, so I just took a few photos of the people.

Here is a photo of John Ballentine on the left, me with a case of writers cramp in the middle and Tom Stites on the right.

http://public.csusm.edu/kai/mark/pic1.jpg

Well no way to just say yes or no. There are a lot of factors. Now it definitely can handle a 138" with proper room, screen, etc... but we would need to know that info to specifically say yes or no to your setup.

I'm also very interested in a 138" screen with this pj. In a completely light-controlled dedicated HT, any guess what screen gain would be required for that size?

High you have to invert the projector, low, it is rightside up.

I was thinking the same thing when I responded, but if you look at the Japanese brochure it states that you do not have to invert the projector when mounting on the top side (i.e. the projector will shoot down toward the screen even when it is upright). So you can do a high shelf mount instead of an inverted ceiling mount if your heart desires.

The page linked to Mike's post indicates that the projector can be mounted above the screen without inversion. Are there any advantages to this? I've seen some PJ specs that say brightness is reduced when the image is inverted. Why would that be the case?

Assuming you want 16:9, and it checks out to around 800 lumens, then that would yield about 14.25 footlamberts on a matte screen. So I would say around a 1.3-1.5 gain is ideal (18.5-21.5 footlamberts).

Here is a photo of Kei and Tom Stites at the AVS/DC after party. I don't know how Kei manages to get prettier every year. She somehow found time to get the party organized, help out with the setup, socialize and mix with everyone and maintain such a warm and friendly personality the entire time. The after party was a lot of fun and it was great seeing the new SMX screen as well as the BenQ, Pearl and JVC HD10K. Personally, I thought the HD10K stole the show, but the Pearl wasn't set up properly and the color saturation was way off.

Oh yeah and Tom made sure to tell me to put the caption on the photo (funny guy that Tom) :D Umn oh yeah and in case you didn't notice that's Tom on the right ;)


EAT YOU HEART OUT TRYG!!!


http://public.csusm.edu/kai/mark/pic2.jpg

McCabe is correct...it basically depends on if you want to mount it high or low. High you have to invert the projector, low, it is rightside up.

Maybe I am looking at the diagram wrong but it says "can use the projector without turning over". It also shows a picture of the projector above the screen with the projector feet on bottom. The way I interpret this is that the projector does not need to be inverted.

Boy, you guys sure post quick. My wife called me from the other room, I was only gone for a couple of minutes, but when I got back and posted this was redundant.

Depends on how high. In other words, you cannot have the projector above the top of the screen rightside up. But say you were in the middle of the screen, you can be either rightside up or upside down.

Depends on how high. In other words, you cannot have the projector above the top of the screen rightside up. But say you were in the middle of the screen, you can be either rightside up or upside down.

I dunno... the diagram clearly shows it above the top of the screen... feet down. Is the diagram wrong?

I am working on confirming but don't go by a simple drawing.

Setup:

The setup was similar to CEDIA and this has been well covered so I'll just say that it was well light controlled with black curtains on the ceilings and sides. The HD10K was by itself with the Sharp 1080p DLP side by side with the DLA-RS1 and projecting an identical source (HD-DVD U-571) onto identical screens.

JVC actually brought a Pearl to the show, but they made the point that it wasn't about ripping on the Pearl, Sharp or any one manufacturer as much as showing the differences in the technology. So it was the turn of 1080p DLP to get ripped er I mean compared lol.

The setup and image on the HD10K was really amazing. The colors, shadow detail and overall image on this projector is awesome. There really isn't anything that I can knock on this projector other than saying that the depth of image in the really dark scenes is better on the RS1. I think anyone who has one of these should be happy with it for a long time to come.

The color temp on the Sharp was noticeably different from the RS1. The RS1 looked dead on D65, but the Sharp was slightly cold (blue). When I asked about this JVC said that they tried to calibrate it closer to D65 but it ran out of adjustment range. I'm not a Sharp aficionado so I don't know if the image looked representative of a typical sample or not, but I assume that this was the case as JVC stressed that they wanted a fair comparison and they've been nothing but honest during this demo.

Black level

I asked if I could check the black uniformity by blanking the video. The JVC rep (I believe it was Ken at the time) said no problem and we were treated to a pretty dark screen. I was still somewhat surprised at how much light was hitting the screen though which was when we noticed that if you put the lens cap on the RS1, the black level on the screen stayed the same! Yup, the ambient lighting even in the dark environment was enough to swamp the screen. This was due to the blue rope lighting used in the back hallway. When we switched it off, we could start to see the true black level on this projector and were able to see shadows on the screen when holding our hands over the lens. Even still the screen was not completely blacked out owing to light from the Exit sign (outside the room!) diffusing into the room from the hallway.

So what this means is that everyone who saw the demo with the rope lighting on (which for safety reasons meant everyone), didn't see the true capability of this projector when it comes down to absolute black levels!!! The ambient lighting was close to the black level but slightly over it. I don't think it affected the HD10K at all and probably not the Sharp much but it did affect the RS1, but not to a huge degree.

This is an important real world test when talking about on/off CR as it points out that a room has to be nearly pitch black to see the true black level on a projector with this sort of CR. If this machine is going into a room with any ambient lighting you'll never see the full 15,000:1. The other thing that was interesting is that the glow on the screen is still readily apparent even with on/off CR this high. I think most people will be very happy if not ecstatic with the image depth in the really low APL scenes but some black level videophiles will still be wanting more (big surprise).

Shadow / low level detail:

The image depth in the dark scenes on the RS1 is excellent and it was noticeably better than the Sharp (in high CR mode) which pretty much everyone has commented on. I also thought that the RS1 was better in this respect than the HD10K. The slight haze in low APL scenes is replaced with more realistic looking detail which makes the scene more convincing and the image therefore more 3D-ish. There is a psyco-perceptual link in this in that it's my belief that there is a subconcious tendency for most digital viewers to focus on the bright material in low APL scenes so as to not be taken out of the movie. With a high CR projector the eye is free to roam around the scene and pick out detail in the haze that it may have otherwise avoided. The net result is a much more convincing viewing experience.

The true beauty of dynamic range

The really killer thing about the RS1 that I didn't expect and which took me awhile to recognize is what happens to the bright but small elements of the image during the dark scenes. The high native contrast makes the bright detail really jump out during the dark scenes. A good example of this was looking at the perspiration on the faces during the dark underwater scenes on U-571. The bright detail was noticeably muted on the iris equipped Sharp. The picture detail was still there, but there was much more pop and depth to the image, but not because of the black detail, but because of the whites!

People tend to focus on what the iris does to the overall black level but even if the black detail ends up the same, the higher dynamic range of native CR makes a noticeable impact on the image. The CRT guys no doubt knew this all along but us digital guys are still getting accustomed to this. This could be one reason why the CRT guys felt that the Ruby looked dull in comparison to a CRT because the iris equipped Sharp had the same sort of look to it. A dullness due to the lack of small but bright detail in the dark scenes.

Sharpness

Sharpness vs smoothness has been a hot topic on this forum recently. The RS1 looked very sharp. I had worries that the optical lens quality would be significantly less on the RS1 than the HD series because of the price point but after seeing it, I'm not worried. The RS1 looked just as sharp as the HD10K (even more actually owing to the fact that the HD10K had a few more layers of glass in the form of the anamorphic lens). My personal belief is that the RS1 is both smooth and sharp and that they don't necessarily have to be polar opposites. If one were to increase the pixel resolution and/or the fill ratio for example the image will become both smoother and sharper. As I mentioned in another thread I would love to see the actual MTF specs on the RS1 because I think it will be higher than many people think.

Before spending time with the RS1, I spent an hour or so watching a well setup Marantz 11S1 a few days ago. I really liked the image it throws and if a person sits closely (like 1x screen width) it does have a much edgier (digital) look to it. I really don't think that this represents more sharpness as much as it's the look of the pixels. It's analogous to running up the sharpness setting, which can give a picture the perception of sharpness but it's a perception only.

Bottom line though, is that it really comes down to personal preference. Some people like to set sharpness settings high, others don't. I don't think that either setting is wrong just as I don't think that the look of either DLP or LCOS is wrong. My own personal preferences tilt towards LCOS however.

To be continued :)

the post ive been refreshing all day for!

THanks!

Thanks Mark - great work! Would you agree with the assessments of others that the RS1 looked just as sharp as the Sharp 20K? And, did anyone check to see if the Sharp was perfectly focused? :) Would you say the RS1 is significantly (i.e much more noticeably sharp) than the Ruby?

Jason. 800 ANSI lumens would be for an IRE 100 window at the absolute closest throw. Assuming an average scene IRE equivalent of 50 and some wear on the bulb, one won't get anything near the digital standard of 10 ft lamberts with a screen that big. Move back the throw a bit and the lumens realy go down because the lens is not constant apeture. See the specs. We are looking at real life lumens in the vacinity of 300 to 350. For a screen that large you better get a very high gain screen which of courses narrows the viewing cone very much and will have excessive hot spotting. 800 ANS lumens is LOW for all the projectors out there. The machine should sing on 100"D screens and one might go up to 110" D inch ok. Better to stack two projectors for a large screen. No free lunch.

Excellent! Man you are making me wish I could have been there! :)

Tom said brightness wouldnt be effected by throw?

Jason. 800 ANSI lumens would be for an IRE 100 window at the absolute closest throw. Assuming an average scene IRE equivalent of 50 and some wear on the bulb, one won't get anything near the digital standard of 10 ft lamberts with a screen that big. Move back the throw a bit and the lumens realy go down because the lens is not constant apeture. See the specs. We are looking at real life lumens in the vacinity of 300 to 350. For a screen that large you better get a very high gain screen which of courses narrows the viewing cone very much and will have excessive hot spotting. 800 ANS lumens is LOW for all the projectors out there. The machine should sing on 100"D screens and one might go up to 110" D inch ok. Better to stack two projectors for a large screen. No free lunch.
We shall see when I get my hands on it. But I don't think you are correct.

"f-number is constant with zoom...no appreciable variation in output vs throw ratio." -tstites

Move back the throw a bit and the lumens realy go down because the lens is not constant apeture.
Mark, if I am not mistaken, the RS1 *is* constant aperture and would not lose any appreciable lumens with a longer throw.

BTW, I also believe that JVC has adjusted the D65 calibrated lumens number to 700, not 800.

AArrrggg Jason I saw your original post!!!!

I hope you get your hands on a unit soon!

Crossing my fingers....

Thanks Mark - great work! Would you agree with the assessments of others that the RS1 looked just as sharp as the Sharp 20K? And, did anyone check to see if the Sharp was perfectly focused? :) Would you say the RS1 is significantly (i.e much more noticeably sharp) than the Ruby?

In the next part I'm going to talk about the comparisons to other machines, but as far as sharpness goes I didn't think the Sharp was sharper. I also didn't think that the Pearl was soft when I viewed it, but the RS1 does seem a little sharper. It's still a very subjective comparison because I didn't A/B test them at the same time. If this ends up being true (that the RS1 is sharper than the Pearl), this might be due to optics as much as panel differences.

Truthfully, the Sharp is, well, a sharp projector. So if the RS1 holds true to being even equal to that, it will have a huge advantage to the competitors in similar technologies.

I dunno... the diagram clearly shows it above the top of the screen... feet down. Is the diagram wrong?
Adding th this point, the JVC online specs clearly say +/- 80%. That indicates that the shift can be up or down without inverting the projector. Typo, maybe???

Truthfully, the Sharp is, well, a sharp projector. So if the RS1 holds true to being even equal to that, it will have a huge advantage to the competitors in similar technologies.

Yeah, I was surprised at this too. I'm going to go more into it on part 3, but I expected the Sharp to throw the same image as the Marantz that I saw the day before, but it didn't. It wasn't as sharp and yeah I did take a look at the pixel grid and verified that it looked well focused. I also didn't notice much RBE with the Marantz (much less than I expected), but it was rainbow city with the Sharp. Anyone know why? They do use the same latest and greatest color wheel right? I can't imagine that there is a setting which would affect this. A much more likely explanation is the side by side reference with another image completely changes the viewing experience.

In the next part ...

JVC RS1 review, the trilogy :)

Mark have you seen the Sony SXRD A2000 RPTV by any chance? Its razor sharp. Curious if the RS1 provides a similarly sharp look.

I believe I am mistaken. Too many freaking specs to keep straight with everything I sell. I believe it can be upright as I am remembering a conversation I had with JVC at Cedia.
My apologies!

JVC RS1 review, the trilogy :)

Mark have you seen the Sony SXRD A2000 RPTV by any chance? Its razor sharp. Curious if the RS1 provides a similarly sharp look.

RPTV? Umn, that's a display technology right? :D Seriously though, no I haven't seen it. JVC was also showing their new reference series RPTV's side by side with competitors and the JVC looked great, but I didn't spend much time with them because my time with the RS1 was so limited.

The JVC RPTV 1080p units are amazing. And well priced compared to it's competitors. All in all I have always loved what they can do.

Thanks Mark. I also look forward to hearing your thoughts about how the black level compares to the Ruby in your next write up.

Yeah, I was surprised at this too. I'm going to go more into it on part 3, but I expected the Sharp to throw the same image as the Marantz that I saw the day before, but it didn't. It wasn't as sharp and yeah I did take a look at the pixel grid and verified that it looked well focused. I also didn't notice much RBE with the Marantz (much less than I expected), but it was rainbow city with the Sharp. Anyone know why? They do use the same latest and greatest color wheel right? I can't imagine that there is a setting which would affect this. A much more likely explanation is the side by side reference with another image completely changes the viewing experience.

Hi Mark

Great review! thanks very much, been waiting all day. Marantz has a new 6x color wheel, the sharp still use the 5x speed.

Mike

I thought I saw somewhere that the lens wasn't constant aperture. Constant aperture zoom lens are very big and very expensive. Tom (a truly great guy and a wealth of knowledge) does know better than I and if he says so, I believe him. Still I expect actual ANSI to be between 300 and 350. One of the reviewers stated that somewhere in one the AVS threads too. I think anywhere over 110"D will be dim. One can get used to dim, hell my CRT only lights up my 110"D at about 5.5 ft lamberts. and that is plenty bright for me in a totally light controlled black room.

A stacked pair at under $9K should be fantastic on a large screen.

Tom did comment that the ANSI wasn't official yet since they aren't production units, but he did guesstimate in the 300-350:1 range as you said. Still, that is very good for this technology.

I thought I saw somewhere that the lens wasn't constant aperture. Constant aperture zoom lens are very big and very expensive. Tom (a truly great guy and a wealth of knowledge) does know better than I and if he says so, I believe him. Still I expect actual ANSI to be between 300 and 350. One of the reviewers stated that somewhere in one the AVS threads too. I think anywhere over 10D will be dim. One can get use to dim, hll my CRT only lights up my 10"D at about 5.5 ft lamberts. and that is plenty brightfor me in a totally light controlled black room.

A stacked pair at under $9K should be fantastic on a large screen.


5.5 ft lamberts on a 10" D ??? :eek:

Hi Mark

Great review! thanks very much, been waiting all day. Marantz has a new 6x color wheel, the sharp still use the 5x speed.

Mike

That explains it! Thanks for the info. The new color wheel makes a very big improvement in RBE. I also thought the Marantz was sharper looking. All in all, I thought the Marantz was very impressive indeed and a step up from the Sharp.


I thought I saw somewhere that the lens wasn't constant aperture. Constant aperture zoom lens are very big and very expensive.


Yeah that was yet another surprise that JVC rolled out with the RS1. Tom said that it is constant aperture and it looks to be a quality Fujinon lens which makes a person wonder how the margins can work on such a low priced projector.

Also, just to reiterate 700 ANSI lumens with a new bulb, high brightness setting at D65. Which makes it a little brighter than the HD10K. ANSI CR 300-350:1 although as I mentioned I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being higher.

I found in my testing that the Marantz is the best single chip 1080p unit, taking price considerations out of the picture.

Tom did comment that the ANSI wasn't official yet since they aren't production units, but he did guesstimate in the 300-350:1 range as you said. Still, that is very good for this technology.


Uh, I think Mark was talking about ANSI lumens, not contrast!?

Crap. You are right. Well then I totally disagree with him but I will know soon.

I recently measure the lumens of my Ruby and was SHOCKED to find I was getting only 193 with 525 hours on the bulb near max throw. I would have bet it was much higher than that because the picture looks super bright on my 106" Firehawk. And that works out to just 8.xftL. So I'm very comfortable that at least for this size screen the RS1 fits the bill perfectly as far as lumen output goes.

Jason - Where are all the inputs on the RS1? I know you answered this before but I'm too lazy and tired to go hunt.

thanks,

5.5 ft lamberts on a 10" D ??? :eek:

He means 10 feet.

FYI

feet = '
inches = "

Several of us were standing there talking as the credits began to roll for U-571. Suddenly we looked over and were surprised to see how “black” the screen suddenly was. Reminded me of my CRT - where it’s impossible to tell whether it’s on or off. And many times I’ve left it on for a day or two, thinking it’s off. Not just that - but when the credits appeared - it was shocking as they were brilliant white and looked to be very 3-D. They just “popped out” Very vivid and sharp, especially with that “black” background. The contrast between the “white” credits and “black” background was incredible. It actually looked eerie. The credits seemed to “float” in the air. (OK so I’m a credit freak)


Thanks for sharing this. That was a great read.

I believe this is attributable to the super high contrast without having to use a dynamic iris because the whites can still be fully bright at say at or near 100 IRE while the black is still at its deepest level (at least as deep as its ANSI CR will allow).

Now, whereas with the Ruby, you would not get this affect because the whites would be dimmer due to the iris being closed down considerably. Yes some of this is made up for to a certain extent by the dynamic gamma but there's only some much brightness you're going to get out of it with the iris closed partially.

Speaking of which - one point I haven't seen discussed is that I think that the lack of a DI on this pj will make it much brighter than the Ruby/Pearl. With Ruby/Pearl and say medium APL (which many scenes are) the iris is partially closed which keeps the brighter parts of the picture less bright than intended. With RS1 without the DI will be able to display those parts at max brightness which will make the overall image pop more. Do you guys agree with this line of thinking?

Setup:


Black level

I asked if I could check the black uniformity by blanking the video. The JVC rep (I believe it was Ken at the time) said no problem and we were treated to a pretty dark screen. I was still somewhat surprised at how much light was hitting the screen though which was when we noticed that if you put the lens cap on the RS1, the black level on the screen stayed the same! Yup, the ambient lighting even in the dark environment was enough to swamp the screen. This was due to the blue rope lighting used in the back hallway. When we switched it off, we could start to see the true black level on this projector and were able to see shadows on the screen when holding our hands over the lens. Even still the screen was not completely blacked out owing to light from the Exit sign (outside the room!) diffusing into the room from the hallway.

So what this means is that everyone who saw the demo with the rope lighting on (which for safety reasons meant everyone), didn't see the true capability of this projector when it comes down to absolute black levels!!! The ambient lighting was close to the black level but slightly over it. I don't think it affected the HD10K at all and probably not the Sharp much but it did affect the RS1, but not to a huge degree.

This is an important real world test when talking about on/off CR as it points out that a room has to be nearly pitch black to see the true black level on a projector with this sort of CR. If this machine is going into a room with any ambient lighting you'll never see the full 15,000:1. The other thing that was interesting is that the glow on the screen is still readily apparent even with on/off CR this high. I think most people will be very happy if not ecstatic with the image depth in the really low APL scenes but some black level videophiles will still be wanting more (big surprise).


Mark,
I'm sure it was stated earlier, but what screen were they showing this PJ on? Did the JVC guys talk about RS1/screen selection at all?

He means 10 feet.

FYI

feet = '
inches = "
I think the joke went right over your head there...

Well no way to just say yes or no. There are a lot of factors. Now it definitely can handle a 138" with proper room, screen, etc... but we would need to know that info to specifically say yes or no to your setup.

Thanks Jason for your response. I am going to start building a dedicated Home theater in basement. So, it will have no light issues. Room dimensions is 17' X 28(or 29)'. Haven't decided on screen yet but based on reviews on this forum, it looks like it will be Carada but I am ready to go for better screens if needed to get my 138+" screen size.

I have time till Jan-Feb to own one but I need to decide which one soon so I can run the cables in the ceiling.

Speaking of which - one point I haven't seen discussed is that I think that the lack of a DI on this pj will make it much brighter than the Ruby/Pearl. With Ruby/Pearl and say medium APL (which many scenes are) the iris is partially closed which keeps the brighter parts of the picture less bright than intended. With RS1 without the DI will be able to display those parts at max brightness which will make the overall image pop more. Do you guys agree with this line of thinking?
On medium APL scenes the dynamic gamma algorithms won't need to work as hard as they would on a low APL scene, so the ill effects of the DI (and as much as some will contest otherwise, any video processing will have at least some ill effects) will be less.

Where high native contrast wins out over DIs is on the rarer type of scene where you have a small number of things near max brightness on a low APL scene. You only have so much room for the dynamic gamma to work with before it runs out of tarmac, and the software has to make a damned either way choice of either increasing the DI's apeture (and having elevated blacks), clipping the whites, or giving an overall washed out picture.

I found in my testing that the Marantz is the best single chip 1080p unit, taking price considerations out of the picture.

But note that in your review, your found the ANSI CR of the Marantz to be only 450 +/- 30, not overhwhelming for a dlp. So it sounds like this spec will not be enormously more than that of the RS1 (if it does in fact approach 400).

Greetings all...

Just home from the West Coast and catching up on some reading here! It was really good to meet so many people from the forum and have a chance to hang out for a while. Also, thanks to all for the kind words, those 20's slipped in pockets were money well spent! :-)

A couple points of clarification...

1. The Sharp 20K does not have a DI...it has a 3 position iris that we normally ran in HC mode unless we were demonstrating the difference it black level when the projector was in HB mode.

2. We did have a Silicon Optix processor sitting on top of the HDDVD player that was feeding both the RS1 and the 20K, but was not turned on or connected...both machines were fed HDMI via a splitter. The HD10K in the other room did use the SO processor to get the proper AR for the Anamorphic lens.

3. The lens on the RS1 is manual zoom and focus, not motorized...the H and V offset is bi-directional, meaning you can adjust the image up/down/left/right. In other words, you could sit this projector right side up on a shelf, above the top of the screen and adjust the offset down as necessary...no need to invert the projector if using above the screen centerline.

4. All connectors are at the rear of the projector.

5. We did compare the Pearl side by side with the RS1 at night after the show closed...this was the first time I personally got to see the two units side by side and I will say that after considerable tweaking on the Pearl, the color and overall picture quality on the two was such that you might have thought you were looking at two RS1's or two Pearl's...this on a variety of medium to high APL scenes. With a total fade to black or a very dark starfield, the RS1 was noticeably blacker in any Iris mode and certainly as bright in a bright scene. The observations were made strictly using HDDVD source material, we didn't evaluate SD scaling or other factors, just colorimetry, brightness, black level and sharpness. There did seem to be a little bit of color non-uniformity showing up at the corners, but it was very minimal.

Thanks to Kei and her crew for having us over for drinks and an opportunity to show off the HD10K with the Schneider lens...it mesmerized a few people.

Cheers,

Fujinon lens which makes a person wonder how the margins can work on such a low priced projector.

A JVC rep at the after party told me a combination of drops in prices on components and a huge ramp up in production (number of units they intend to sell) allowed them to lower the price as much as they did. I'm sure there are other factors as well, possibly profits from rear projection that may have compensated R&D efforts, but it sounded like those were the main reasons.

Also, there's some positive news for those looking to use an anamorphic lens for CH 2.35. One of the JVC reps said they're working with the software engineers to try and get the vertical stretch worked into the firmware, so you won't need an external scalar. Of course, these sorts of things sometimes fall through, but at least there's an attempt to get the necessary scaling on-board.

I had a great time at the after-party (thanks Kei and co) and it was good to be able to throw some questions at those JVC guys. The H10K was expertly calibrated, the color was jaw-dropping. I found out just how important color was to me, even more so than contrast ratio (which tends to hold the crown around here). I'm very much looking forward to seeing an RS1 - I only wish I was in the position to buy (from AVS) right now. However, it'll definitely be on the list when that time rolls around.

tstites-

You didn't notice a diference in sharpness between the pearl and the RS1?

Boy, what great reading! Tom, can you say what the lumen and CR are in each of the iris settings? BTW, very much like the idea of an adjusitble (but non-dynamic) iris!

He was talking about Sharps iris.

A few quick questions:

1. How many hours on the Sharp and JVC lamps?

2. Was the Sharp on its Economy lamp mode or regular lamp mode?

3. What was the difference in the JVC's fan noise going from low mode to high?

Thanx

Ran

I meant 110"D. My 1 key sticks sometimes. Sorry guys.

Jason. Measure the lumens as Rick did. After few hundred bulb hours and viewing a typical movie scene. You will be lucky to get 300 lumens.

All the 1080P PJs at the Expo and at Kei's party look like quality units.

The Pearl's greyscale was way off and imparted a green/grey caste to flesh tones. I'm sure that the gain/bias controls were not set to stock positions. I have never seen an HT quality PJ out of the box with the color so far off. No one should judge the Pearl's color performance by what they saw there. As far as detail and sharpness: I thought that it was superb. This is a very good PJ.

The BenQ also looked very sharp and detailed. The stock color accuracy was vastly better than what we saw on the Pearl. It thought it was slightly sharper, but the Pearl was plenty sharp. The BenQ had excellent PQ. Those interested in DLP should definitely look at this one. Processing by Gennum, I believe. It accepted a 1080P signal at 24 hz for the demo. The type of video that was shown on the Pearl and BenQ didn't allow me to analyze as much of their video performance as the video that was shown on the Sharp and JVC. That is the only reason that I have more details about them in their descriptions. I don't know how the BenQ and Pearl would compare to the Sharp and JVC in a side by side. I was impressed with all of them.

The Sharp 20000. I thought it also had a great image. I was surprised that it produced a bright enough image on the 110" 1.3 gain Stewart screen. It was set to High Contrast iris and High bulb power. The Sharp looked like it had been calibrated pretty close to D65, but tilting slightly towards green/blue. IMO it was slightly sharper than the RS1, but the difference was negligible and would not be a deciding factor for me. Objects in motion on the Sharp remained slightly sharper than they did on the RS1, but I would never have realised this if they had not been side by side. This also would not be a deciding factor for me. The black background on the Credits screen at the end of U571 looked a little darker on the Sharp than on the RS1. I did not see nor account for the ambient light that Mark described. That may have influenced what I saw. In very dark scenes the Sharp had good shadow detail, but the same details were brighter on the RS1. This made them more visible and made the black background appear slightly darker than it did on the Sharp. There was very little grey haze in the Sharps blacks and even less in the RS1's. When the Sharp was set to Low Contrast iris, it was clearly brighter than the RS1. When it was set to High Contrast iris, it was clearly dimmer. I would estimate the Sharp was making 7-8 fL, which is bright enough to be watchable, but will soon be too dim after some bulb wear. Both PJ's had about 50 hours on new bulbs. I thought the Sharp had a very impressive image. It should be paired with a smaller screen or a higher gain screen than the 110" Studiotek, IMO.

The RS1 prototype was farther from D65 than the Sharp was. Clouds had a visibly pink caste to them and flesh tones were overly golden. It was far enough off D65 that I found it distracting. The good news is that the corrections to these inaccuracies should actually increase the brightness of the projector at 100 ire without affecting the black level. I detected no color caste at Black. I detected no uniformity problems great enough to be visible in the one movie that I saw. White was clearly brighter on the RS1 than it was on the Sharp (Sharp set to High Contrast & High Bulb Power). There are no bulb power or iris settings on the RS1. (A HINT TO JVC) A bulb power setting would be a welcome addition as it provides a way to keep image brightness more constant over the life of the bulb. The Normal gamma setting is nominally 2.2, and thats how it looked to me. The other three gamma settings have yet to be determined. Fan noise was pretty loud, but Rob, the JVC rep. stated that the production model of the RS1 would be no louder than the HD10K, which is about average in fan noise, I think (I haven't measured an HD10K). This remains to be seen. The Sharp was much quieter. The RS1 vents from the front. The RS1 has gain and bias controls so that it can be fully calibrated in the field. If I remember correctly the RS1 has color controls that should allow a calibrator to remap the Primary/Secondary colors to match the applicable standards. The image from each panel can be shifted in single pixel increments vertically and horizontally, so that misconvergence can be adjusted to be less than a single pixel. JVC claims 700 lumens at 15K:1 on/off CR after calibration to D65. We will have to see if that pans out to be accurate when the production models are released. Be cautious about selecting a screen until the brightness of the production samples is known. In the past, JVC has been pretty accurate with its specs. Shadow detail was exceptional in the Normal gamma setting. The image was very sharp and detailed overall. The zoom has a very wide ratio and the amount of lens shift available is huge. This PJ should fit into the vast majority of HTs. JVC stated that the RS1's light output is constant at all zoom settings. The RS1 has Gennum processing and can accept a 1080P signal at 24 hz. There is a lot to like about this PJ. JVC is packing a ton of capability and performance into it.

Glenn

Also, thanks to all for the kind words, those 20's slipped in pockets were money well spent! :-)


Glad to hear that the 20's were well spent and I really do appreciate you allowing me to take the RS1 home with me. :D It was the best $20 I've ever spent :)


1. The Sharp 20K does not have a DI...it has a 3 position iris that we normally ran in HC mode unless we were demonstrating the difference it black level when the projector was in HB mode.


Doh! I know this, but in my haste I used DI in one of my posts rather than iris. I've fixed this, thanks for pointing it out.


2. We did have a Silicon Optix processor sitting on top of the HDDVD player that was feeding both the RS1 and the 20K, but was not turned on or connected...both machines were fed HDMI via a splitter. The HD10K in the other room did use the SO processor to get the proper AR for the Anamorphic lens.


Thanks for clarifying this. I spent so much time studying the picture and asking questions that I forgot to dig through the video chain to see how it was fed. I did remember seeing the HQV logo though but this must have been on the 10K. Can you verify that the prototype had the Gennum and that was what was doing the 1080i 2-3 pulldown on the output of the Toshiba? I did look look for deinterlacing artifacts and in particular the soft 1080i "bob" look and didn't see it. The deinterlacing looked as good as my VP50 and Realta processors that I have at home. I posted this intially in part 1, but then I remembered seeing the HQV logo so I deleted this info from the post. I'll add it back in if you can verify that the Gennum was being used.

I don't know if this was answered before.

Will RS1 have a HDMI 1.3 input?

Mark,
I'm sure it was stated earlier, but what screen were they showing this PJ on? Did the JVC guys talk about RS1/screen selection at all?

I believe that it was Rob from JVC who said that it's an early Studiotek 130 and the gain is probably a little lower than the 1.3 rating.


A JVC rep at the after party told me a combination of drops in prices on components and a huge ramp up in production (number of units they intend to sell) allowed them to lower the price as much as they did. I'm sure there are other factors as well, possibly profits from rear projection that may have compensated R&D efforts, but it sounded like those were the main reasons.


I heard that Tom had to take a pay cut too. :)

Lindahl, it was great meeting you at the after party, I wish we had more time to socialize. Hopefully we can do southern cal get togethers more often than once a year.


The H10K was expertly calibrated, the color was jaw-dropping. I found out just how important color was to me, even more so than contrast ratio (which tends to hold the crown around here).


Yup, exactly. The best word that I can use to describe the colors on the HD10K is sumptuous. Many people like using Chronicles of Riddick for testing the dark scenes, but some of the bright crowd scenes provide excellent material for testing colors and the 10K really looked great with this material.

A few quick questions:

1. How many hours on the Sharp and JVC lamps?
2. Was the Sharp on its Economy lamp mode or regular lamp mode?
3. What was the difference in the JVC's fan noise going from low mode to high?

Thanx

Ran

1. No idea, I didn't ask maybe Tom can chime in.
2. I believe it was in the regular lamp mode but Tom can verify.
3. This was a prototype unit and the fan was on the high setting regardless of bulb mode.

I don't know if this was answered before.

Will RS1 have a HDMI 1.3 input?

This was one question that I forgot to ask Tom. I'm hoping that he will chime in. I doubt that it will have 1.3 or deep color support but it does have 1080p24.

Personally, I'd rather wait for a few months more to get the JVC with the HDMI 1.3.

If JVC will not integrate this into RS1, I believe it will be obsolote pretty soon when other companies come out with with HDMI 1.3 equipped projectors, processors and DVD players.

I hope JVC will reconsider it and include it before its release early next year or at least make it in a way that it can be field upgraded in the future.

Mark Petersen,

First let me thank you for your efforts they are truly appreciated by all of us.

Reading through all this info makes me wonder about the JVC/Sharp comparison.
This is by NO means any hint about the guys at JVC trying to screw up the 21K, but just wondering if the 21K was at it's best form. It takes time to bring it there...

I'm also not trying to defend the 21K which I own, in fact I made inquires about purchasing the JVC if indeed it will turn out to be this good.

The punch which was lacking in the 21K (Tom) is probably due to the difference in brightness between the 2 projectors.
This can be a case of different hours on the lamps OR the fact that the lamp was on Eco for the Sharp which is 20% less light output than the regular mode.
More over I wonder what Gama was used with the Sharp and if the Auto Contrast feature was used or not. I find the Auto Contrast feature to work very well.

After reading Tom Stites report on the Pearl/JVC comparison I'm even more puzzled on how he thinks that the JVC and Pearl look exactly alike except for very low APL scenes, and the JVC is clearly superior to the 21K (as others noted).

I tested my Ruby against the 21K for 6-7 hours projecting on the same screen with the same material.
We were 5 guys all with projectors and experience and not once did we prefer the Ruby. In fact it was no contest. The 21K was sharper had more image depth at low and high APL scenes and had these super accurate colors.
More over the advantage in uniformity was also quite clear.

I'm still betting the JVC is a true winner, just not to sure about the comparison.

Best,

Ran

After reading Tom Stites report on the Pearl/JVC comparison I'm even more puzzled on how he thinks that the JVC and Pearl look exactly alike except for very low APL scenes, and the JVC is clearly superior to the 21K (as others noted).
Yes, this has me confused/concerned as well. Hopefully Tom was just being modest about the RS1 and throwing some kindness towards the Sony.

What Gennum chip will te RS1 use? The newest one previewed by Gennum at Cedia?

Great reading all!

Mark -
You've really gone OVER-THE-TOP, and I'm sure it's very much appreciated by all! I must say it was great to meet somebody who has as much enthusiasm for Home Theater as do you! It's catching. Hope to meet again if you can put together that San Diego projector shoot-out. Hey - if you wait just a couple months you should have your RS1 by then!

Glenn -
Great review from a different perspective. I thought the Sharp 20K had a great picture too. However the RBE was almost more than I could bare. It affected those around me as well. It even irritated me (peripherally) while I was trying to concentrate on the RS1! Even if performance wise they were equal - and it looks like the SR1 will be superior in several key areas - the deciding factor to me, and many others is cost. That the RS1 is HALF the (MSRP) of the Sharp (and Marantz). This puts it out there to the masses. It's affordable (as is the Pearl). And me personally - well I don't want to spend an overt amount of cash ($8-12K) on a projector that will be outdated 6 months later. And the way this technology is moving - that's certainly gonna happen.

"5. We did compare the Pearl side by side with the RS1 at night after the show closed...this was the first time I personally got to see the two units side by side and I will say that after considerable tweaking on the Pearl, the color and overall picture quality on the two was such that you might have thought you were looking at two RS1's or two Pearl's...this on a variety of medium to high APL scenes. With a total fade to black or a very dark starfield, the RS1 was noticeably blacker in any Iris mode and certainly as bright in a bright scene. The observations were made strictly using HDDVD source material, we didn't evaluate SD scaling or other factors, just colorimetry, brightness, black level and sharpness. There did seem to be a little bit of color non-uniformity showing up at the corners, but it was very minimal."

The above is a quote from tstites post.

Tom, the color non-uniformity you mention, are you talking about the JVC or the Sony, or both?

Tom, the color non-uniformity you mention, are you talking about the JVC or the Sony, or both?

As a B&W movie fan - uniformity to me is of the UTMOST importance. More so than just about any other spec. Main reason I passed on the Pearl, the other being it's rather short 1.7 throw. I am really hoping JVC can nail this down w/ the RS1. I saw a gray scale on the JVC 10k at the show - and it looked impeccable. A little less so on the RS1.

Here's to hoping these JVC quotes come to pass:
"Outstanding gray scale reproduction" and "Automatic shading calibration during production"

Personally, I'd rather wait for a few months more to get the JVC with the HDMI 1.3.

If JVC will not integrate this into RS1, I believe it will be obsolote pretty soon when other companies come out with with HDMI 1.3 equipped projectors, processors and DVD players.

I hope JVC will reconsider it and include it before its release early next year or at least make it in a way that it can be field upgraded in the future.

How big of a deal is HDMI 1.3?

I have been researching a HD-DVD player and the Toshiba HD-XA2 will be having it. My biggest concern is how does it work with a HDTV that does not have 1.3 capabilities?

The same concern is in the projectors that I am researching.

All the 1080P PJs at the Expo and at Kei's party look like quality units.

... No one should judge the Pearl's color performance by what they saw there. As far as detail and sharpness: I thought that it was superb.

The BenQ also looked very sharp and detailed. .... It thought it was slightly sharper, but the Pearl was plenty sharp. .... I don't know how the BenQ and Pearl would compare to the Sharp and JVC in a side by side. I was impressed with all of them.
... The Sharp 20000. I thought it also had a great image. ...IMO it was slightly sharper than the RS1, but the difference was negligible and would not be a deciding factor for me. ...

Always great to get the opinions of an experienced professional with a trained eye. There has been a lot of speculation on the sharpness issue. Your comments are important for those of us who will not have a chance to see these units in the same setting.

Thanks

Here's to hoping these JVC quotes come to pass:
"Outstanding gray scale reproduction" and "Automatic shading calibration during production"Indeed. Where did the second quote come from? The Expo?

...The RS1 on the otherhand will refresh @ 96hz for 24p film sources so there shouldn't be any flicker *or* judder :)...



Thanks Mark for the detailed reports.

This is providing that the unit is fed 24p natively, correct? As of the moment, understanding if the on-board scaler will do 3:2 reversal from 60i sources is still TBD I believe.

Also, apologies if I missed it, but I assume this is tacit acknolwedgment that the unit will accept a 24p input. Is this on both HDMI and component?

Congrats to JVC and the team.

...That the RS1 is HALF the (MSRP) of the Sharp (and Marantz). This puts it out there to the masses. It's affordable (as is the Pearl). And me personally - well I don't want to spend an overt amount of cash ($8-12K) on a projector that will be outdated 6 months later. And the way this technology is moving - that's certainly gonna happen.

Exactly! I agree 100% Even if the Sharp 20K was slightly better, there's no way I could justify spending several thousands more for it (street), especially at the rate all this is changing. If this was as good as it would get for say 5 years, then yea I'd plunk down the extra $. But as you said things are changing so fast its just not worth it to me. The deal on the JVC is incredible. If you are serious about this pj and haven't checked in with Jason yet you owe it to yourself to give him a call!

IIRC it wasn't too long ago that Greg was saying what he wants is native 15,000:1 with no dynamic iris and its ill side affects. If the JVC specs hold true, its here (or should I say will be here in Feb)!

Glenned
Your prayers are already answered. In the sit down with JVC Mark Petersen is communicating there will be two bulb modes roughly 20 percent apart.

mark haflich
Gennum 9351

Lets try not be a devils advocate with every quote on relative projector performance.

All:

Thank you for all of your input and comments regarding the DLA-RS1 projector. EHX was a great opportunity for JVC to talk as well as listen to our customer's. As a manufacturer, understanding our customer is a focus for the Professional Products Co. Display Division.

As JVC moves forward to delivering the RS1, Tom Stites will be plead to respond to your questions.

Lastly, what a great party!!! Much thanx for the invite and kudos to Kei for putting this together.

Lon Mass

The JVC RPTV 1080p units are amazing. And well priced compared to it's competitors. All in all I have always loved what they can do.
I have been so please with my D-ILA projectors over the years that I bought a 56" 1080p JVC RPTV for my parents. It does have outstanding picture qulity and they are thrilled with a HD picture. Now I'm trying to talk my sister and brother-in-law into putting a HT in their basement and getting a RS1.

Also I'm willing to do a looooog term beta test the RS12 when it comes out.;)

There you go!

Oh damn... the pearl can be tweaked to look like the RS1... I was hoping for a noticeably better projector than the Sony Pearl or Ruby...

I saw some questions about what screen sizes may work with this pj so I did some calculations you may find helpful.

This is also based on the assumption that the RS1 does indeed put out 700 lumens @ D65 with a new bulb, and that over time an aged bulb drops by about 50% (nothing specific to JVC here). Keep in mind with most bulbs I think they hit their 50% drop off well before their rated max hours, so this further assumes that you'd replace the bulb once it got dim and well before the max rated hours...

First I present numbers for the StudioTek/Firehawk based on about 1.3 gain. Now if you go with a high power screen (essentially a must if you plan to go over 120") you can do pretty well assuming you can mount to get the high gain out of the screen. Just keep in mind that HP screens do not generally work well at all with ceiling mounts.

OK, so here are some numbers. Screen sizes shown diagonal measurements, 16:9 ratio.

For a 106" Firehawk screen, 700 lumens is 27ftL which on an aged bulb is about say 13ftL so that seems rather ideal.

For a 120" Firehawk screen, 700 lumens would yield about 21ftL, and say 11ftL with an aged bulb. Still acceptable by many standards.

Once we go up from there it gets dicey... For a 133" Firehawk screen, 700 lumens would yield about 17ftL and say 8ftL with an aged bulb. IMO this is still doable if you have total light control. I'm getting 8ftL now with my Ruby and its still very enjoyable and punchy.

If you go up to a HP and can get 2.0 gain (doable, but you better be sure!), here's how the numbers change. Note that with the HP the gain varies widely based on placement - anywhere from below 1.0 to as much as about 3.0. So I'm using 2.0 as a general average but you may be able to get higher say 2.5. Ok so here goes:

For a 106" HP screen with 2.0 gain, 700 lumens would yield about 42ftL, and say 21ftL with an aged bulb.

For a 120" HP screen with 2.0 gain, 700 lumens would yield about 32ftL, and say 16ftL with an aged bulb.

For a 133" HP screen with 2.0 gain, 700 lumens is 27ftL which on an aged bulb is about say 13ftL.

Hope this is helpful. If you have specific questions about HP gains send me a PM and I'll help you estimate what your effective gain is. Then based on that we can calculate an anticipated ftL level based on your desired screen size.

Disclaimer - these numbers should be used as a rough guide. Before making any decisions please be sure to check with your dealer as I can't be sure of these numbers and remember a lot of this is based on speculation on the specs of the RS1 at this point...

I saw some questions about what screen sizes may work with this pj so I did some calculations you may find helpful.

This is also based on the assumption that the RS1 does indeed put out 700 lumens @ D65 with a new bulb, and that over time an aged bulb drops by about 50% (nothing specific to JVC here). Keep in mind with most bulbs I think they hit their 50% drop off well before their rated max hours, so this further assumes that you'd replace the bulb once it got dim and well before the max rated hours...

First I present numbers for the StudioTek/Firehawk based on about 1.3 gain. Now if you go with a high power screen (essentially a must if you plan to go over 120") you can do pretty well assuming you can mount to get the high gain out of the screen. Just keep in mind that HP screens do not generally work well at all with ceiling mounts.

OK, so here are some numbers:

For a 106" Firehawk screen, 700 lumens is 27ftL which on an aged bulb is about say 13ftL so that seems rather ideal.

For a 120" Firehawk screen, 700 lumens would yield about 21ftL, and say 11ftL with an aged bulb. Still acceptable by many standards.

Once we go up from there it gets dicey... For a 133" Firehawk screen, 700 lumens would yield about 17ftL and say 8ftL with an aged bulb. IMO this is still doable if you have total light control. I'm getting 8ftL now with my Ruby and its still very enjoyable and punchy.

If you go up to a HP and can get 2.0 gain (doable, but you better be sure!), here's how the numbers change. Note that with the HP the gain varies widely based on placement - anywhere from below 1.0 to as much as about 3.0. So I'm using 2.0 as a general average but you may be able to get higher say 2.5. Ok so here goes:

For a 106" HP screen with 2.0 gain, 700 lumens would yield about 42ftL, and say 21ftL with an aged bulb.

For a 120" HP screen with 2.0 gain, 700 lumens would yield about 32ftL, and say 16ftL with an aged bulb.

For a 133" HP screen with 2.0 gain, 700 lumens is 27ftL which on an aged bulb is about say 13ftL.

Hope this is helpful. If you have specific questions about HP gains send me a PM and I'll help you estimate what your effective gain is. Then based on that we can calculate an anticipated ftL level based on your desired screen size.

Disclaimer - these numbers should be used as a rough guide. Before making any decisions please be sure to check with your dealer as I can't be sure of these numbers and remember a lot of this is based on speculation on the specs of the RS1 at this point...

Are the above calculations based on screen width or diagonal? What is the aspect ratio of the screen 16 x 9 or other. Thanks for your help and input but the devils in the details.

Are the above calculations based on screen width or diagonal? What is the aspect ratio of the screen 16 x 9 or other. Thanks for your help and input but the devils in the details.

Good point. I edited the post to include "Screen sizes shown diagonal measurements, 16:9 ratio."

Also someone may want to double check I calculated this correctly as I backed into the numbers.

All the 1080P PJs at the Expo and at Kei's party look like quality units.

The Pearl's greyscale was way off and imparted a green/grey caste to flesh tones. I'm sure that the gain/bias controls were not set to stock positions. I have never seen an HT quality PJ out of the box with the color so far off. No one should judge the Pearl's color performance by what they saw there. As far as detail and sharpness: I thought that it was superb. This is a very good PJ.

The BenQ also looked very sharp and detailed. The stock color accuracy was vastly better than what we saw on the Pearl. It thought it was slightly sharper, but the Pearl was plenty sharp. The BenQ had excellent PQ. Those interested in DLP should definitely look at this one. Processing by Gennum, I believe. It accepted a 1080P signal at 24 hz for the demo. The type of video that was shown on the Pearl and BenQ didn't allow me to analyze as much of their video performance as the video that was shown on the Sharp and JVC. That is the only reason that I have more details about them in their descriptions. I don't know how the BenQ and Pearl would compare to the Sharp and JVC in a side by side. I was impressed with all of them.

The Sharp 20000. I thought it also had a great image. I was surprised that it produced a bright enough image on the 110" 1.3 gain Stewart screen. It was set to High Contrast iris and High bulb power. The Sharp looked like it had been calibrated pretty close to D65, but tilting slightly towards green/blue. IMO it was slightly sharper than the RS1, but the difference was negligible and would not be a deciding factor for me. Objects in motion on the Sharp remained slightly sharper than they did on the RS1, but I would never have realised this if they had not been side by side. This also would not be a deciding factor for me. The black background on the Credits screen at the end of U571 looked a little darker on the Sharp than on the RS1. I did not see nor account for the ambient light that Mark described. That may have influenced what I saw. In very dark scenes the Sharp had good shadow detail, but the same details were brighter on the RS1. This made them more visible and made the black background appear slightly darker than it did on the Sharp. There was very little grey haze in the Sharps blacks and even less in the RS1's. When the Sharp was set to Low Contrast iris, it was clearly brighter than the RS1. When it was set to High Contrast iris, it was clearly dimmer. I would estimate the Sharp was making 7-8 fL, which is bright enough to be watchable, but will soon be too dim after some bulb wear. Both PJ's had about 50 hours on new bulbs. I thought the Sharp had a very impressive image. It should be paired with a smaller screen or a higher gain screen than the 110" Studiotek, IMO.

The RS1 prototype was farther from D65 than the Sharp was. Clouds had a visibly pink caste to them and flesh tones were overly golden. It was far enough off D65 that I found it distracting. The good news is that the corrections to these inaccuracies should actually increase the brightness of the projector at 100 ire without affecting the black level. I detected no color caste at Black. I detected no uniformity problems great enough to be visible in the one movie that I saw. White was clearly brighter on the RS1 than it was on the Sharp (Sharp set to High Contrast & High Bulb Power). There are no bulb power or iris settings on the RS1. (A HINT TO JVC) A bulb power setting would be a welcome addition as it provides a way to keep image brightness more constant over the life of the bulb. The Normal gamma setting is nominally 2.2, and thats how it looked to me. The other three gamma settings have yet to be determined. Fan noise was pretty loud, but Rob, the JVC rep. stated that the production model of the RS1 would be no louder than the HD10K, which is about average in fan noise, I think (I haven't measured an HD10K). This remains to be seen. The Sharp was much quieter. The RS1 vents from the front. The RS1 has gain and bias controls so that it can be fully calibrated in the field. If I remember correctly the RS1 has color controls that should allow a calibrator to remap the Primary/Secondary colors to match the applicable standards. The image from each panel can be shifted in single pixel increments vertically and horizontally, so that misconvergence can be adjusted to be less than a single pixel. JVC claims 700 lumens at 15K:1 on/off CR after calibration to D65. We will have to see if that pans out to be accurate when the production models are released. Be cautious about selecting a screen until the brightness of the production samples is known. In the past, JVC has been pretty accurate with its specs. Shadow detail was exceptional in the Normal gamma setting. The image was very sharp and detailed overall. The zoom has a very wide ratio and the amount of lens shift available is huge. This PJ should fit into the vast majority of HTs. JVC stated that the RS1's light output is constant at all zoom settings. The RS1 has Gennum processing and can accept a 1080P signal at 24 hz. There is a lot to like about this PJ. JVC is packing a ton of capability and performance into it.

Glenn

Thanks Glenn for your comparison. Looks like there are still enough things in the Sharp XV-Z20000 favour for me to still consider it over the JVC, namely Sharpness & Fan noise. As my screen is 92" Diagonal I think that it would be ideal for brightness. The tilt towards blue is interesting as TommHoffman says with the Sharps CMS you can get it right-
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8752134&&#post8752134

Just waiting for Greg Rogers review on the Sharp to make my final decision.

But as some else has mentioned the JVC at nearly half the price is sure tempting. Aah what to do. Get the Sharp soon or wait until CES for a more thorough look at a production JVC version.

Maybe I'm just a bit cranky right now, but all of these "Will such and such projector work in my room?" and "Is there enough light coming from such and such projector?" and "Can I mount this projector on its side?" kind of threads really need to stop. Maybe some ambitious person among us could write up a "Will this projector work for me? - a tutorial" thread so that people can figure these things out for themselves. You know, something that explains throw ratios, lumens and ftL calculations, screen gains, fixed offset, vertical lens shift, etc.

This way when someone starts yet another thread asking if this projector is bright enough for a 100" screen, we can just point him to the tutorial so that he can figure it out for himself and maybe even learn something in the process...:)

BTW, I am not singling out anyone in this thread (it was actually a poster in another thread that got to me), so please don't take this personally.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day - Show a man how to fish and you feed him for the rest of his life."

RS1 vs Sharp, Marantz, Pearl and HD10K

I promised a comparison between these machines, please keep in mind that these are subjective and very cursory. The meaningful comparisons will be done by those lucky few who get a production version of the RS1 and can put it through it's paces in their own environment. But here is my thoughts nonetheless:

RS1 vs Sharp 20K
The easy comparison is the Sharp vs RS1 because it was a side by side demonstration. I thought that the Sharp looked good and other than the blue tint and the fact that RBE was prevalent and very distracting it throws a great image. For critical viewing the only mode that makes sense on the Sharp is the high contrast mode (iris stopped down). Side by side the image on the RS1 was a little better in just about every respect. The biggest difference between the two is that the high dynamic range (on/off CR) of the RS1 really allows the small bright detail in dark scenes to pop. When the Sharp is in the high bulb, high contrast mode the RS1 has something like 2x the lumens and 3x better on/off. I've heard people say that LCOS has a veil over it that hides detail compared to DLP, but for those who saw it the opposite seemed to be true. I wouldn't ever say the Sharp had a dull appearance, but next to the RS1 it did look a little dull but again not by a huge amount.

RS1 vs HD10K.
As I mentioned earlier the image on the HD10K was truly exceptional. I can't imagine someone not being happy with the image this thing throws. I thought that the image on the RS1 was *very* similar between these machines but they weren't side by side and they were shown with different sources and the HD10K benefited from the Schneider anamorphic lens which increased pixel resolution and brightness. Despite these differences it was clear that the RS1 showed more detail in the low APL scenes owing to it's 5x better on/off CR. It didn't seem as dramatic as one would expect though, but then again as I mentioned in Part2 we weren't really seeing the true black level on this projector because of the rope lighting. I know the grey scale tracking and color gamut on the HD10K should be a little better and I looked for clear differences but I was hard pressed to see a significant difference. I'd love to see a side by side with these two projectors though because they are so similar looking that it would come closest to keeping everything equal but ANSI and on/off CR so that a person could gauge the impact of just those two aspects of PQ.

RS1 vs Marantz
As I mentioned earlier in this thread I saw the Marantz 11S1 the day before the Expo and I thought it was exceptional. The RBE is much less prevalent than on the Sharp and MC6 has pointed out that this is due to the new color wheel on the Marantz. This is the first 1-chip DLP that I've seen where the RBE was minimized to the point where i would consider it for my HT. The image was razor sharp, actually too sharp for my tastes. I like to sit close to the screen as I feel this adds an enveloping experience and it's one of the big strengths of the pixel density in 1080p. When I sit at ~1x screen width the edginess of the Marantz gives it a digital sort of look to it. Although as I mentioned I don't think a person could go wrong with it. Price aside, it throws a different sort of an image to the RS1 but I can see why many people will prefer it. I also thought it was a step up from the Sharp 20k.

RS1 vs Pearl
I wish that I had a chance to see the Pearl side by side with the RS1. I had viewed the Pearl about a week prior to the EH Expo and I provided my comments on this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8867560&&#post8867560

I thought that the Pearl throws an outstanding image and I didn't see any uniformity problems (black or white) that I expected to see. It throws an image that is remarkably similar to my HD2K with the exception that the contrast is better on the Pearl in the darker scenes. I can't imagine someone not being happy with this projector and I found it honest of Tom to also speak favorably of this projector and reaffirm what I was thinking.

The Pearl vs RS1 comparison will likely hinge on the merits of native CR over a DI and I think that the RS1 will have an advantage here, but I think a side-by-side is needed to gauge the differences accurately and I think they may be more subtle than people may realize. I don't think a person can go wrong with either projector and for the price both are stand outs. I'm also hopeful that the QC on the RS1 vs the Pearl will be less of a crapshoot as far as convergence, shading, etc. is concerned although as I mentioned in the review of the Pearl the uniformity was good and much better than my expectations.

Final thoughts on the Comparison
It's amazing to see the progress that has been made in delivering such outstanding PQ. I thought that all of the 1080p projectors at the show including the lower cost LCD Mitsibusihi that was also at the Expo threw really good images. LCD, DLP and LCOS all seem to be converging towards the same PQ nirvana, but at very different price points. These technologies are becoming more similar image-wise than they are different. It's clear that we are rapidly approaching an era of diminishing returns as far as PQ and projector specs are concerned. I'm not sure where this is going to lead us hobbyists but one thing is clear - setup and calibration is becoming one of the biggest differentiating factors in image comparison between projectors even across projection technology.

When I spoke with Dr. Bleha at JVC (who co-invented the original LC light-valve technology and has helped to perfect it over the years). We both remarked how far image quality has come over the years. I asked him that now that we have 1080p and 15000:1 on/off CR what's next? We both joked that to get the same jump in improvements that we've grown used to seeing in recent years that we'll need to go to hologram technology or something :)

A couple other notes from JVC and the Expo
The RS1 is the first product in JVC's new Reference Series line. Expect further products( RS2, 3,4, etc.) to come out that vary in key specs from the RS1. What I'm personally interested in is a higher-end projector that is a replacement for the Qualia and HD10K and better in every respect. JVC also recognized that there is a niche for this machine and I expect them to eventually release this sort of a machine but I don't think it will be for awhile and this shouldn't be a concern for those buying the RS1 and worrying about the RS2 (or whatever it will be called) being announced immediately thereafter.

JVC reiterated what Tom had said earlier, that the wiregrid polarizing technology used in the PBS is what really has leapfrogged CR spec. In earlier posts someone mentioned that WG polarizors came out about two years ago and they were wondering why it took so long for LCOS manufacturers to adopt them. I believe that it was Dr. Bleha that said that they saw the dramatic improvements that it made two years ago but then they had to go back and redesign the panels to maximize the gains that could be realized by the WG PBS. Although JVC was being coy about it, enough details have come out that it's clear that the new panels are improved in just about every respect. New LC material, thinner LC layer, smaller gap between LC molecules, smaller die sizes, better uniformity, better fill ratio, etc. etc.

The new digital backplane looks like it will be the future for JVC products. This is a departure in that the pro line has always used the analog backplane and the consumer the digital. As I mentioned in part 1, I looked hard to spot any contouring or banding problems and didn't find any. We also froze the image to look for any unsteadiness in the pixels and didn't find any. It's my belief although not confirmed by JVC (Tom feel free to chime in) that the digital backplane allows more flexibility in the way the panels are driven and in particular it facilitates the higher panel refresh rate which removes some of the flicker at 1080p48 that some HD10K users are seeing.

There were also some reports circulating around about 17000:1 on/off, but JVC doesn’t know where these came from so add this to the unsubstantiated rumor list.

I asked him that now that we have 1080p and 15000:1 on/off CR what's next?

For fans of larger screens, now that we have decent HD sources & projectors, I'm really hoping the "next thing" is to significantly increase the brightness of the sub $10K projectors and keep the color / CR performance without having to use screens with high gain.

Regards,
Dean

All:

Thank you for all of your input and comments regarding the DLA-RS1 projector. EHX was a great opportunity for JVC to talk as well as listen to our customer's. As a manufacturer, understanding our customer is a focus for the Professional Products Co. Display Division.

As JVC moves forward to delivering the RS1, Tom Stites will be plead to respond to your questions.

Lastly, what a great party!!! Much thanx for the invite and kudos to Kei for putting this together.

Lon Mass

Hi Lon,

It was great meeting you at the Expo and the AVS/DC sponsored party. I appreciate all of the information and feedback and it's obvious that JVC has a popular product on their hands. Congratulations to you and everyone at JVC who were responsible for delivering this unprecedented level of technology at this price point.

I should also point out to the forum members that Lon is Tom's boss and he is the director of the Display Division at JVC. I think that his prior experience at Sony has a lot to do with how much bang for the buck is represented in the RS1 and I'm expecting continued success at JVC.

Thanks again,
Mark

Does anyone know whether or not the PQ or lumen output of RS1 would be diminished if one is near the horizontal limit of the lens shift (34%)?

This is providing that the unit is fed 24p natively, correct? As of the moment, understanding if the on-board scaler will do 3:2 reversal from 60i sources is still TBD I believe.

Also, apologies if I missed it, but I assume this is tacit acknolwedgment that the unit will accept a 24p input. Is this on both HDMI and component?


Yup, direct 1080p24 input is currently the only way to remove telecine judder although JVC is interested in the 1080i60->1080p24 3-2 removal if the Gennum 9351 and their architecture supports it. I assume that 1080p24 will be over HDMI but I'm not sure what the capabilities of the component interface are.


For fans of larger screens, now that we have decent HD sources & projectors, I'm really hoping the "next thing" is to significantly increase the brightness of the sub $10K projectors and keep the color / CR performance without having to use screens with high gain.


Good point, I think this may be addressed by later RS series projectors although this is just speculation on my part.

Mark, more great information!

Thank you for the time you've spent on this!

All:

Thank you for all of your input and comments regarding the DLA-RS1 projector. EHX was a great opportunity for JVC to talk as well as listen to our customer's. As a manufacturer, understanding our customer is a focus for the Professional Products Co. Display Division.

As JVC moves forward to delivering the RS1, Tom Stites will be plead to respond to your questions.

Lastly, what a great party!!! Much thanx for the invite and kudos to Kei for putting this together.

Lon Mass

Great first Post Lon!

Welcome to the forum. It's great to have a strong JVC presence again!

Mark, more great information!

Thank you for the time you've spent on this!

Thanks Tryg! As a person on the prebuy list I have a vested interest in this projector. I also wish that you could have made it to the Expo. Try to make it to CES though and I'll be glad to help you with the top 10 CES booth babe thread :)

Thanks Tryg! As a person on the prebuy list I have a vested interest in this projector. I also wish that you could have made it to the Expo. Try to make it to CES though and I'll be glad to help you with the top 10 CES booth babe thread :)

I'll be at CES...And I'll need a wing man ;)

I'll be at CES...And I'll need a wing man ;)

Great! It will be fun athough I think it will be hard for us to stay out of trouble ;)

I am hoping lasers is the next step after this leap. Having a stable light source with respect to brightness and color would simplify a consumers life. I think we as consumers should be less tight with our money with reagards to buying new lamps but then there is the hazzle of recalibration.

Many thanks to Mark and to JVC for providing so much information.

Ohlson- Did you go to the big projector shoot out in Sweden as I didn't see your thoughts anywhere?

"Oh damn... the pearl can be tweaked to look like the RS1... I was hoping for a noticeably better projector than the Sony Pearl or Ruby..."

Looks like JVC was unfortunate enough to get an especially good Pearl example :)

Mark, thanks for the tremendous amount of great information you've supplied for us.

For the first time in my life, I'm on a pre-order list for something brand new!

Great! It will be fun athough I think it will be hard for us to stay out of trouble ;)
:D

Mark, thanks for the tremendous amount of great information you've supplied for us.

For the first time in my life, I'm on a pre-order list for something brand new!
Me too!

While I saw the prototype at CEDIA and had already made up my mind to get on the pre-order list, I really appreciate all the details and method in which you handled the questions. You have filled in many of the information gaps on this projector!

Where do we go from native 15000:1 on / off CR and this level of performance?

To me the answer is obvious - even better on / off CR, much better ANSI contrast (I haven't seen any definitive ANSI CR numbers for the JVC, but it has generally been an achilles heel for LCOS tech pjs) and probably the inevitable addition of an iris, not to mention more pjs with the ability to be really bright while maintaining high contrast.

With sufficient brightness, some of us would definitely give up some brightness for even better contrast be it in a user controllable but non-dynamic iris or in a Ruby level DI / adjustable iris implementation. The low end of the brightness scale (and probably the high end of the contrast scale) in a perfect world would be much higher than it is nowadays. I think new light source technologies are as important now as new panel improvements.

Extending the color gamut once "deep color" sources are available would be nice too.

I think the "end of the line" projector is as far away today as it was a few years ago - the march of progress is inevitable. That's not to say this new level of performance isn't fantastic, and much happier to stay satisfied with for years to come!

Spizz
I was there. I hope someone will post about it with pictures. Just not to get too off topic here the short summary is as follows.
Projection Design Action! model 3 1080p was the winner by most accounts.
My favourite moment was Marantz 11S1 fed true 1080p material of godlike quality.

sethk
Make the difference between size of color gamut and precision at pin pointing color within that gamut. Today we are still stuck at 4:2:0 component video with 8 bits. It is sad is it not?

Spizz
I was there. I hope someone will post about it with pictures. Just not to get too off topic here the short summary is as follows.
Projection Design Action! model 3 1080p was the winner by most accounts.
My favourite moment was Marantz 11S1 fed true 1080p material of godlike quality.

sethk
Make the difference between size of color gamut and precision at pin pointing color within that gamut. Today we are still stuck at 4:2:0 component video with 8 bits. It is sad is it not?

Oh come on Ohlson, you can't just give a 2 line summary for a big shoot-out like that! please start a new threat for it! I think a lot of people would be interested in reading your review, consider you are not only one of the few whom has the knowledge and also unbiased to the technologies

Mike

Boy, this has been a breath-taking thread! My pj decision has been made (I'm on the RS1 preorder) unless by some chance Samsung or Infocus show an impressive 1080p dlp at the CES that can be mounted 'low' and has a 'short throw', a possibility that I think is very remote. I'm really quite excited, since this will be my first FP (coming from a 73" Mits 1080p dlp rptv). Coupled with a 119" HP screen (or maybe even a bit larger), this is going to be a very happy 66th birthday present to me this coming March!

EAT YOU HEART OUT TRYG!!!


I at least have age on Tom :)

Happy 66th Millerwill! :) I am also on the preorder list, and am verry excited about this unit. Cant wait to get it into my HT!

As I mentioned, I thought the overal look of the image on the Pearl is very similar to other DILA products including the RS1. I don't think a person can go wrong with either the Pearl or the RS1, but I went back and reread what Tom posted and I think it's relevant to those who are on the fence deciding between the two projectors:

"the color and overall picture quality on the two was such that you might have thought you were looking at two RS1's or two Pearl's...this on a variety of medium to high APL scenes. With a total fade to black or a very dark starfield, the RS1 was noticeably blacker in any Iris mode and certainly as bright in a bright scene."

The bold accents are mine. I thought that the comments about the black level and overall brightness are important enough to requote. Having not seen the side to side comparison, my expectation was that the DI and the 15000:1 CR spec on the Pearl would translate to similar black levels between the two projectors but that the RS1 would benefit from better instantaneous dynamic range. If as Tom points out the RS1 is delivering better black levels and better instantaneous CR, then this is well worth the small difference in price between the two projectors - at least to those who have light controlled theaters.

Another thing that I forgot to add in my posts was that I asked several of the JVC rep's if they were worried about all of this technical information about wire grid technology and redesigned panels being leaked out. They kind of shrugged and said that they know that Sony has stuff in the works too. So the display wars continue :)

Mark I have a 135 inch diagonal GrayHawk screen in a light controlled room do you think the RS1 would be bright enough for my setup?

Earl

something else worth pointing out.

The pearl can have the higher lumens or the higher contrast but not both (not talking about di). The throw will determine which one you get.

You can should be able to get both at the same time with the rs1 =)

I have a grayhawk and I dont think the RS1 would be bright enough for a 135 diag. Without going into calculations I would want more than 1.3 with a screen that was bigger than 110 diag

Having not seen the side to side comparison, my expectation was that the DI and the 15000:1 CR spec on the Pearl would translate to similar black levels between the two projectors but that the RS1 would benefit from better instantaneous dynamic range. If as Tom points out the RS1 is delivering better black levels and better instantaneous CR, then this is well worth the small difference in price between the two projectors - at least to those who have light controlled theaters.:)
The Pearl, unlike the Ruby, only delivers 10,000:1 d65 calibrated. There has been speculation on if the differences might be visable in a direct Pearl v Ruby comparison.

The Pearl, unlike the Ruby, only delivers 10,000:1 d65 calibrated. There has been speculation on if the differences might be visable in a direct Pearl v Ruby comparison.

Thanks Hoya, this clarifies why Tom was seeing a lower floor on the RS1.

Mark I have a 135 inch diagonal GrayHawk screen in a light controlled room do you think the RS1 would be bright enough for my setup?

Earl

Hi Earl, if you have a light controlled room you may want to rethink the screen material. If you have a Stewart frame you can reuse the frame and order only the screen material and save some money. On a light controlled room with a 135" screen, this projector would look great on a ST130 and it should be plenty bright. If you needed some light rejection the new non-color shifting Firehawk probably looks good too. The high gain screens have their uses too. Tryg, Jason and Daniel are a great resource for questions like this.

Mark, thanks for the tremendous amount of great information you've supplied for us



Me too!

While I saw the prototype at CEDIA and had already made up my mind to get on the pre-order list, I really appreciate all the details and method in which you handled the questions. You have filled in many of the information gaps on this projector!


Thanks guys, it was fun and a pleasure meeting everyone. I think John Ballentine is right though I have gone way-over-the-top :D But then again what did you guys expect from an AVS AV Jihadist? :)


this is going to be a very happy 66th birthday present to me this coming March!


Happy early 66th birthday to you Bill!

As I mentioned, I thought the overal look of the image on the Pearl is very similar to other DILA products including the RS1. I don't think a person can go wrong with either the Pearl or the RS1, but I went back and reread what Tom posted and I think it's relevant to those who are on the fence deciding between the two projectors:

"the color and overall picture quality on the two was such that you might have thought you were looking at two RS1's or two Pearl's...this on a variety of medium to high APL scenes. With a total fade to black or a very dark starfield, the RS1 was noticeably blacker in any Iris mode and certainly as bright in a bright scene."

The bold accents are mine. I thought that the comments about the black level and overall brightness are important enough to requote. Having not seen the side to side comparison, my expectation was that the DI and the 15000:1 CR spec on the Pearl would translate to similar black levels between the two projectors but that the RS1 would benefit from better instantaneous dynamic range. If as Tom points out the RS1 is delivering better black levels and better instantaneous CR, then this is well worth the small difference in price between the two projectors - at least to those who have light controlled theaters.

Another thing that I forgot to add in my posts was that I asked several of the JVC rep's if they were worried about all of this technical information about wire grid technology and redesigned panels being leaked out. They kind of shrugged and said that they know that Sony has stuff in the works too. So the display wars continue :)

i am happily on the RS1 pre-order list (thanks Tryg) and enjoying all the great feedback, thanks.

i do have a question. i am still considering getting a Pearl now as i want 1080p and i want it right the hell NOW. (i would then sell the Pearl when the RS1 arrives).

since the Pearl has an adjustable Iris as well as a Dynamic Iris; won't the Pearl be more adjustable as the bulb ages?.......in other words, won't the Pearl be more optimizable? it seems that without an adjustable Iris you will only be able to enjoy the 'sweet spot' of bulb life for a very limited time. and if i go to a 120" diag 2:35-1 CH screen that time will be quite limited.

i expect that my question will expose my limited understanding of these issues and apologize if i have mis-interpreted how this all works.

EDIT; my current RP (Marantz S3) is mounted from the (very dark brown painted) ceiling (23" from ceiling to center of lens).......will i be able to use a high power screen that close to the ceiling? 23" from the ceiling is the current top of my motorized screen.

"since the Pearl has an adjustable Iris as well as a Dynamic Iris; won't the Pearl be more adjustable as the bulb ages?"

Yes, but that adjustment is only useful if it has excess lumens for your setup in the beginning, and your initial adjustments reduce the brightness, which you can then back off.

Thanks Hoya, this clarifies why Tom was seeing a lower floor on the RS1.

Using Darin's iris tweaks I've been able to get 20,000:1 out of the Pearl instead of its default settings that yield closer to 15,000:1. And even the difference between 15,000:1 and 20,000:1 is noticeable. That's also in the back of my mind - if the CR of the RS1 is indeed "only" 15,000:1 this may actually be a step back for me in what I am getting on the Ruby...

I have a grayhawk and I dont think the RS1 would be bright enough for a 135 diag. Without going into calculations I would want more than 1.3 with a screen that was bigger than 110 diag

Most definitely it will not work or even come close to working, at least once some age on the bulb is factored in - not even with a 1.3 gain screen. I posted several scenarios about screen sizes and gains and expected ftL in one of these recent JVC threads if you are interested. Bottom line is that I think you will need a high power wtih at least 2.0 gain (which may not even be obtainable if you are ceiling mounted).

would a graywolf 106" screen work with the RS1 (roughly 11 foot throw, some ambient light from cream colored walls) or would I need to upgrade the screen?

Sorry, forgot to mention that the projector would be shelf mounted.

would a graywolf 106" screen work with the RS1 (roughly 11 foot throw, some ambient light from cream colored walls) or would I need to upgrade the screen?

I assume you mean reflected light from walls coming off the screen? If you mean light coming from a source other than the pj than that may change things. Basically at 106" Grayhawk with 0.95 gain and assuming 700 lumens you'd be looking at about 20ftL with a new bulb and 10ftL roughly with an aged bulb. I thing that's pretty good and can work unless you really like a super punchy image, or unless you have a fair amount of outside ambient light you cannot control (sunlight). If you dont already have the screen you may want to consider the Studiotek or Firehawk to pick up some additional gain.

Personally if I could do a shelf mount I'd go with a HighPower. You don't really need that with this this size screen and pj however.

Lovingdvd, I have a graywolf--not a grayhawk screen (alas, I wish it were the other way around!). This is a gray screen with 1.8 gain. And yes, I mostly mean light reflected off the walls.

I didn't attend the EXPO but went to the after-party. Thank you Kei for hosting a great party. She ran all over the place ensuring everything went running smoothly. And it surely did. The food was great and plenty for dinner, like teriyaki beef kabobs, roast beef, quiche, chicken satay curry, et al; and I was ok with just chips and salsa. :)

Anyhow, it was great meeting Mark Petersen and Lindahl as well - both very knowledgeable. I myself am not tech savvy but here are some quick impressions from what I saw in the Pearl, Benq 10000 and JVC 10k:

In all fairness, most of us were viewing thes pjs from over 20 ft away from the screen. From this distance, of course, all the pjs look very good and almost similar to one another that differences were quite difficult to discern. But they all looked amazingly bright on the 114" SMX screen with 1.16 gain even with the low lighting and bar with mirrors behind us. Although I noticed how it affected the Pearl's ansi quite a bit while playing The Patriot movie (under the Crystallio 2 thru hdmi) but not that much with the Benq.

Regardless of, the Pearl's image was so detailed and never looked soft at all. I personally wouldn't regret owning this one or the Benq over the JVC. Ok, I lied - I want the JVC. :D Sometime later though, time was spent on calibrating the Pearl which affected the grayscale and I thought colors turned a bit washed out after the color setting was toned down to 39. From there on, I could not even compare with the Benq. On another note, this Benq deserves some serious viewing from DLP fans. It was a tad sharper than the Pearl and just as detailed. It also played smoothly with less judder - might have been in the setup as the dlp was running 1080p @ 24, if I am not mistaken. The Pearl' image, however, looked slightly more refined to me.

If what I saw from the JVC 10K unit was any indication of what the RS1 might look like, then my long search is over. Unfortunately, I still have to wait for months. This unit seems to possess the best of both worlds with dlp sharpness and Pearl detail. The clarity, color accuracy and color seperation is top notch and seem a step above the other two as noticed even for a dark movie like the Chronicles of Riddick. And despite the low lighting behind us, images remained a knockout. I hope colors will still be as good in the RS1 as this is more important to me than an already improved native on/off CR. The throw and vertical stretch (if implemented) features are nice additions that will complement my purchase.

medium to high APL scenes.

Excuse my ignorance Mark but what does APL stand for?

I've dove several searches here and cannot find what the definition is.

Excuse my ignorance Mark but what does APL stand for?

I've dove several searches here and cannot find what the definition is.

APL = Average Picture Level.

If what I saw from the JVC 10K unit was any indication of what the RS1 might look like, then my long search is over. Unfortunately, I still have to wait for months. This unit seems to possess the best of both worlds with dlp sharpness and Pearl detail. The clarity, color accuracy and color seperation is top notch and seem a step above the other two as noticed even for a dark movie like the Chronicles of Riddick. And despite the low lighting behind us, images remained a knockout. I hope colors will still be as good in the RS1 as this is more important to me than an already improved native on/off CR. The throw and vertical stretch (if implemented) features are nice additions that will complement my purchase.

I spent about 6 to 7 hours with the Meridian Faroudja D-ILA 1080MF1 and if the proto RS1 was any indication of how the colors looked like on the Meridian, then I think it looked overly warm like 2 layers of CC10M Tiffen filter over the lens and this was at color temp D65 setting. The facial tan was so deep compared to my Ruby which looked more natural on the scene with the little boys face with the braces in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. No doubt the colors are very pleasing, but too golden, too cinemaish! With my Ruby and VP50 and the tweaks galore it provides, it fairs very well with the Meridian. :D

Lovingdvd, I have a graywolf--not a grayhawk screen (alas, I wish it were the other way around!). This is a gray screen with 1.8 gain. And yes, I mostly mean light reflected off the walls.

Ah, sorry 'bout that - I though that was a typo :). Ok so with 1.8 gain at 700 lumens would be about 38ftL with a new bulb and say 19ftL with an aged bulb. Should work great I would think.

Sorry, forgot to mention that the projector would be shelf mounted

if that is the case, the highpower would work well with the projector assuming the shelf is somewhere near the head area

I spent about 6 to 7 hours with the Meridian Faroudja D-ILA 1080MF1 and if the proto RS1 was any indication of how the colors looked like on the Meridian, then I think it looked overly warm like 2 layers of CC10M Tiffen filter over the lens and this was at color temp D65 setting. The facial tan was so deep compared to my Ruby which looked more natural on the scene with the little boys face with the braces in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. No doubt the colors are very pleasing, but too golden, too cinemaish! With my Ruby and VP50 and the tweaks galore it provides, it fairs very well with the Meridian. :D

Don't compare the MF1 with the 10K and RS1 too closely. The MF1 isn't merely a rebadged JVC. From what I understand the housing and optics are different and every unit is hand calibrated using the William Phelps process and none leave to a customer without meeting very low tolerances of shading and color uniformity and perfect D65. The housing yields an even quiter projector than the 10K.

38ftL ???
You guys are nuts :)

I prefer it around 15 ftL for best viewing experience.

lovingdvd,
(or anyone who would know):
I have a pre-order on the JVC RS1 as well. I have a similar question to Pedro2 - I have a 92" diagonal Greyhawk (yes Greyhawk) screen. Black wall behind screen and cream color on left and right. White ceiling. 14' wide room. I have an 128" (10.6') throw lens to screen. I will be watching with no other light light.
What kind of light output can I expect? Also, how do you calcualte the FTL for a given screen and projector?
Regards,
Dom

Don't compare the MF1 with the 10K and RS1 too closely. The MF1 isn't merely a rebadged JVC. From what I understand the housing and optics are different and every unit is hand calibrated using the William Phelps process and none leave to a customer without meeting very low tolerances of shading and color uniformity and perfect D65. The housing yields an even quiter projector than the 10K.

Perfect D65? Wow not all movies should look like fantasy land tiptoeing in strawberry fields forever. I understand the MF1 is reference standrad D65, great dynamic range displaying wider than wide range of intermediate tones. But golden tan like on the beach for 4 hours for 4 days, well I'm sure there are settings to correct it to a more natural looking white person.

lovingdvd,
P.S. to my previous reply: Although I am sure you know - the gain (or lack of) on the Greyhawk is .95.
Regards,
Dom

Soren, I take it you think this will be plenty bright enough...perhaps too bright?!

Lovingdvd and daniel, thanks for the input. The JVC would stretch my projector budget, so was hoping not to have to upgrade the screen as well--hence my question. The other constraint (which I should have mentioned right away) is that it needs to be a pull-down screen (not permanent/fixed) because of the layout and multi-use nature of the room. So, that limits the options further.

20-50 foot lamberts is a great place to be :)

lovingdvd,
(or anyone who would know):
I have a pre-order on the JVC RS1 as well. I have a similar question to Pedro2 - I have a 92" diagonal Greyhawk (yes Greyhawk) screen. Black wall behind screen and cream color on left and right. White ceiling. 14' wide room. I have an 128" (10.6') throw lens to screen. I will be watching with no other light light.
What kind of light output can I expect? Also, how do you calcualte the FTL for a given screen and projector?
Regards,
Dom

Looks like it would be a great fit (assuming 700 lumens is actually delivered). 26.5ftL new, and say 13ft on an aged bulb. I like a very bright and punchy picture and consider even the 8ftL I get now on my Ruby with 500 hrs on the bulb to be very satisfying, so I think you would be very good with this setup. BTW, for goodness sake paint that ceiling something other than white! :)

lovingdvd,
Can you divulge how you calculated the FTL? Also:
We all know that life means making compromises. My house is an old cape cod style with no room for a dedicated theater. So............................It is in my living room (or my fomer living room). I had to keep the ceiling white. It is the first thing you see when you walk in the house! :D But I did get to put theater seats, sound panels etc. where needed. So a compromise on the wall and ceiling color was needed. :(

Regards,
Dom

Also, how do you calcualte the FTL for a given screen and projector?

The formula is the lumen output of the projector (which should be lumens at calibrated levels for the light settings you're going to use) multiplied by gain of the screen divided by area of the screen.

I think 20+ ftL is too bright yes!
It actually worries me that there is no iris where I can dampen the light output on this beast.

I have a 100" firehawk.

BTW ...
Has anyone here seen an number on expected hours on the lamp?

5. We did compare the Pearl side by side with the RS1 at night after the show closed... The observations were made strictly using HDDVD source material, we didn't evaluate SD scaling or other factors, just colorimetry, brightness, black level and sharpness. There did seem to be a little bit of color non-uniformity showing up at the corners, but it was very minimal.


Could you please clarify the your sentence regarding color non-uniformity in the corners? Were you refereing to the Pearl?

Thanks.

make sure you convert area of screen into feet.


Projector lumens * Screen Gain /(area of screen in feet not inches)

Using Darin's iris tweaks I've been able to get 20,000:1 out of the Pearl instead of its default settings that yield closer to 15,000:1. And even the difference between 15,000:1 and 20,000:1 is noticeable. That's also in the back of my mind - if the CR of the RS1 is indeed "only" 15,000:1 this may actually be a step back for me in what I am getting on the Ruby...

It sounds like the Pearl CR numbers are all over the map. HoustonHoyaFan was saying only 10,000:1 @ D65 for the Pearl. This could represent difficulties in measuring CR that high as well as real world differences between actual projectors. The JVC specs also tend to be conservative so that all the units should meet or exceed their numbers. As an example, the HD2K was rated at 2000:1 and Darin measured 2400:1 on his. Applying the same 20% factor to the 15000:1 spec yields a delivered 18000:1 (Yeah I know this is just speculation though, YMMV :) ). Absolute CR figures aside though, the fact that the RS1 delivers these numbers instaneously without a DI should have perceptual benefits too.


Anyhow, it was great meeting Mark Petersen and Lindahl as well

Good meeting you too Ximori. I hope to see you again at other events.


Excuse my ignorance Mark but what does APL stand for?

Yup, lovingdvd is right APL = average picture level.
I think that it was Hoya or Ericglo that found an interesting white paper about mtf that as a side benefit shows some actual photos with a luminance histogram and APL numbers in it. This helps to get a better feel for how the APL numbers translate into real world images.
http://etconsult.com/papers/Black%20Paper%20Matt%20Cowan.pdf

Don't compare the MF1 with the 10K and RS1 too closely. The MF1 isn't merely a rebadged JVC. From what I understand the housing and optics are different and every unit is hand calibrated using the William Phelps process and none leave to a customer without meeting very low tolerances of shading and color uniformity and perfect D65. The housing yields an even quiter projector than the 10K.

kraigk, I think he was directly referring to a MF1 that he viewed, which is astonishing because the MF1 is probably the most D65 color accurate projector shipped today courtesy of Wm. The golden tint that he saw may have been in the film itself or it could have been a source problem in the player. People need to remember that even with a color and greyscale accurate projector that source setup is not just a necessary but critical part of the viewing experience. I can't tell you have many times I've had to futze around with player and processor settings to remove black crush for example.

Mark

I think LovingDvd was refering to his Ruby. He says Pearl in the begining but then Ruby in the end, plus Darin's tweeks where for the Ruby.

since the Pearl has an adjustable Iris as well as a Dynamic Iris; won't the Pearl be more adjustable as the bulb ages

The RS1 has two bulb settings so this helps, the Pearl and Ruby are definitely more tweakable though.

Mark

I think LovingDvd was refering to his Ruby. He says Pearl in the begining but then Ruby in the end, plus Darin's tweeks where for the Ruby.

That makes sense. When I read it I thought he had both projectors (you never know some people collect the strangest things :)). As far as the Ruby vs RS1 goes, there was the CEDIA side by side (and the never ending question of setup). Once the RS1 ships it would be really interesting to see a shootout of both projectors tweaked to the max.

5. We did compare the Pearl side by side with the RS1 at night after the show closed
Do anyone know what the Pearl's throw ratio was?

Using Darin's iris tweaks I've been able to get 20,000:1 out of the Pearl instead of its default settings that yield closer to 15,000:1.
Are the Pearl's tweaks the same as the Ruby's tweaks? Is it the exact same process and settings?

I am fortunate to have enjoyed greatly a JVC G15 and an (original) Greyhawk screen combo for over 5 years, bought at AVS of course <g>.

I've asked the screen question on that forum ... The screen is custom electric greyhawk 16:9AR:
Diag Width Ht Image Size
127 110.9 62.4 6922 sq inches
The PJ is about 13' (156") away, viewing distance varies from


But about the projector .... I really _want_ to get the new JVC DLA-RS1 1080p (ready to pull trigger on powerbuy) to enjoy 1080p quality with similar viewing characteristics to the G15 (smoothness, shadow detail, colors). This setup will also probably last us 4-5 years, lots of viewing.

My concern is about light output. The room is a library, two small windows on the right, door on the left, usually quite dark ... but a) late summer sun gives some light leaks on the right, and b) my wife likes to do projects with a small lo-voltage light which casts ambient onto the floor and cabinets. These provide some washout of color and shadows (blacks turn to mid-gray) with my present G15-Greyhawk combo, which reduces enjoyment a lot (for me).

A fellow AVS-er on the PJ forum sent me this: at 700 lumens spec with the grayhawk screen you'd only get 14ftL with a new bulb, and within the first several hundred hours that would likely drop in half to about 7ftL. That is doable IF YOU HAVE TOTAL LIGHT CONTROL but even then depends on your tastes. If you had the Firehawk with a gain closer to 1.3 (as opposed to Grayhawk gain of 0.95) then you'd at least have 20ftL to start and 10ftL after the bulb aged. That still may be challenging without total light control.

So ..... with the JVC RS1 and my existing greyhawk, will this light situation be improved .... worse .... or about the same?

I could live with similar brightness and shadow detail, but would really like more "pop" to accompany the move to 1080p, for the psychological impact of viewing the new media. And I don't really wanna wait a year for the next round of brighter 1080p projectors (at potentially higher prices).

All advice and viewpoints are welcome, in this important, long-term choice for us.
Thanks in advance.

The golden tint that he saw may have been in the film itself or it could have been a source problem in the player. People need to remember that even with a color and greyscale accurate projector that source setup is not just a necessary but critical part of the viewing experience. I can't tell you have many times I've had to futze around with player and processor settings to remove black crush for example.

Just to clarify, the source was toshiba A1 2.0 firmware and VP50 with the MF1 and Ruby. The only difference is the DVI input on the MF1 vs the Ruby's HDMI. And I agree it could have been the player since the DVI input only accepts RGB or figuring how to adjust it right for DVI PC levels. I find it hard to get the picture right unlike HDMI to HDMI where there is no guessing with video levels. The RS1 with HDMI should be spot on me thinks.

Stew,

I'd try the Firehawk and the Dalite HighPower.

I've only seen the FH at shows but it seems to help with ambient much more than the GH. HP is my personal fave for most installs and its so cheap compared to FH and GH that you could try it out full size for very little money.

Ken

Just to clarify, the source was toshiba A1 2.0 firmware and VP50 with the MF1 and Ruby. The only difference is the DVI input on the MF1 vs the Ruby's HDMI. And I agree it could have been the player since the DVI input only accepts RGB or figuring how to adjust it right for DVI PC levels. I find it hard to get the picture right unlike HDMI to HDMI where there is no guessing with video levels. The RS1 with HDMI should be spot on me thinks.

One of the really nice things about a well setup projector like the MF1 is that you can take the display calibration out of the equation while doing your setup. Also, I haven't seen the new "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" but I assume it's supposed to be colorful to the extreme, are you sure the golden tint isn't in the film itself?

Someone else also commented that the RS1 had a gold tint, but some of the outdoor scenes in U-571 were filmed with the sun low in the sky and I assume this was just in the film itself.

Also, I haven't seen the new "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" but I assume it's supposed to be colorful to the extreme, are you sure the golden tint isn't in the film itself?

Someone else also commented that the RS1 had a gold tint, but some of the outdoor scenes in U-571 were filmed with the sun low in the sky and I assume this was just in the film itself.

Mark,

I don't think it is the film itself, because the ruby at normal color setting was closer to natural skin color. If you have seen 2 fast to furious then yes it is the film itself because the ruby look cartoonish with overly red skin tones in the darker scenes in the boat. Adjusting gamma red on the VP50 corrected this which also added a little green tone was more bearable than golden.

I am fortunate to have enjoyed greatly a JVC G15 and an (original) Greyhawk screen combo for over 5 years, bought at AVS of course <g>.

I've asked the screen question on that forum ... The screen is custom electric greyhawk 16:9AR:
Diag Width Ht Image Size
127 110.9 62.4 6922 sq inches
The PJ is about 13' (156") away, viewing distance varies from


But about the projector .... I really _want_ to get the new JVC DLA-RS1 1080p (ready to pull trigger on powerbuy) to enjoy 1080p quality with similar viewing characteristics to the G15 (smoothness, shadow detail, colors). This setup will also probably last us 4-5 years, lots of viewing.

My concern is about light output. The room is a library, two small windows on the right, door on the left, usually quite dark ... but a) late summer sun gives some light leaks on the right, and b) my wife likes to do projects with a small lo-voltage light which casts ambient onto the floor and cabinets. These provide some washout of color and shadows (blacks turn to mid-gray) with my present G15-Greyhawk combo, which reduces enjoyment a lot (for me).

A fellow AVS-er on the PJ forum sent me this: at 700 lumens spec with the grayhawk screen you'd only get 14ftL with a new bulb, and within the first several hundred hours that would likely drop in half to about 7ftL. That is doable IF YOU HAVE TOTAL LIGHT CONTROL but even then depends on your tastes. If you had the Firehawk with a gain closer to 1.3 (as opposed to Grayhawk gain of 0.95) then you'd at least have 20ftL to start and 10ftL after the bulb aged. That still may be challenging without total light control.

So ..... with the JVC RS1 and my existing greyhawk, will this light situation be improved .... worse .... or about the same?

I could live with similar brightness and shadow detail, but would really like more "pop" to accompany the move to 1080p, for the psychological impact of viewing the new media. And I don't really wanna wait a year for the next round of brighter 1080p projectors (at potentially higher prices).

All advice and viewpoints are welcome, in this important, long-term choice for us.
Thanks in advance.
Also looking at the JVC and building a new HT in basement with no exterior light, and I'm getting confused about screen material. With only 700 lumens am I stuck with white screen with a gain of 1.0 then why are others wanting gray screens with higher gains(1.3 and higher)? PJ to screen distance about 15-16 feet. Sitting area at 13'

the captain

Also looking at the JVC and building a new HT in basement with no exterior light, and I'm getting confused about screen material. With only 700 lumens am I stuck with white screen with a gain of 1.0 then why are others wanting gray screens with higher gains(1.3 and higher)? PJ to screen distance about 15-16 feet. Sitting area at 13'

the captain

lovingdvd provided some numbers earlier in this thread. Screen technology is way beyond the scope of this thread and even this forum though. You may want to spend some time on the screen forum and get a better feel for the pros and cons of screen gains and the merits of grey screens vs white screens:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=23

EDIT: Bob Sorel just created a new thread for exactly these sorts of questions.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=753497

Stew,
I'd try the Firehawk and the Dalite HighPower.
I've only seen the FH at shows but it seems to help with ambient much more than the GH. HP is my personal fave for most installs and its so cheap compared to FH and GH that you could try it out full size for very little money.
Ken

As Mark says, screens best discussed in that forum (where reading the Stewart Filmscreen messages is very helpful) ... but here I was hoping to learn the comparison of image quality and light output, of G15 vs. RS1.

My G15 is Dilard-calibrated, and I understand the RS1 is closely calibrated at the factory ... so does anyone have experience seeing both images?

Or at least an approx comparison?

As Mark says, screens best discussed in that forum (where reading the Stewart Filmscreen messages is very helpful) ... but here I was hoping to learn the comparison of image quality and light output, of G15 vs. RS1.

My G15 is Dilard-calibrated, and I understand the RS1 is closely calibrated at the factory ... so does anyone have experience seeing both images?

Or at least an approx comparison?

Stew, I used to have a G11 before replacing it with an SX-21 (and then a HD2K). Even with the extra lumens on the G15 (over the G11), the light output between a D65 calibrated G15 and the RS1 should be roughly around the same. I think back in the day people were measuring about 800 lumens or so. The difference between 700 and 800 lumens is not going to make much of a perceptual difference. As far as the actual image quality though there is a world of difference between the two. The G series had poor shading and color shifts on a solid white screen were really pronounced. The resolution is better and the SDE isn't noticeable at viewing distances on the RS1. The biggest difference though is going from 800:1 to 15000:1 on/off CR. The image (especially HD) is much more lifelike and just pops.

To tell you the truth I get a kick out of the fact that so many people with the older G series projectors are talking about upgrading to an RS1. I'm kind of envious because I know the huge improvement they will get in their HTs. I wish I were there to see the look on their faces when the RS1 is first turned on. :)

Stew, I used to have a G11 before replacing it with an SX-21 (and then a HD2K) .... calibrated G15 and the RS1 should be roughly around the same. .... As far as the actual image quality though there is a world of difference between the two. .... The biggest difference though is going from 800:1 to 15000:1 on/off CR. The image (especially HD) is much more lifelike and just pops.

I'm kind of envious because I know the huge improvement they will get in their HTs. I wish I were there to see the look on their faces when the RS1 is first turned on. :)

That's very useful info ... thanks Mark.
So the 3-D feel, filmlike quality, and black levels will all be better ... but overall brightness will be about the same. I think we can live with that.

BTW, I read your current equipment list .... I would _love_ to watch a movie in your theater. On your HD2k with the HTPC/processor combo, how much difference does that make? IOW, if you compare the level of image change from G15 to RS1 ... would a change from HDTV via DISH/DTV be a similar change if one went to an HTPC+video processor like yours?

Any others have a viewpoint on this, before I "pull the trigger" on an RS1?

Still no numbers on the number of hours on the Lamp/setting?
Kinda important to know if there is going to be another $500 a year just in lamp cost.

soren
Exeactly how much are you planning to use a projector in a year. I have fought hard to put 500+ lamp hours in one year. Doing 1000+ hours a year leaves little time for anything but projector watching.

I think that this projector is going to be over 700 lumens but perhaps a little less than 800. Check out this frnm the HD2K review,
"With the gray scale calibrated to D65 as described earlier, the projector produced 587 lumens, which is equivalent to 26.8 fL from my 85.3 x 48 inch, 1.3 gain screen. This comfortably exceeded the projector’s 500 lumens specification. The on/off contrast ratio measured 2160:1, which also surpassed its 2000:1 contrast ratio specification. It’s not often that a projector outperforms its contrast ratio and light output specifications!

I prefer a peak brightness of approximately 12 fL from my 1.3 gain Stewart Studiotek 130 screen, which is also the SMPTE recommendation for digital cinema. So I used a neutral density filter that reduced the peak brightness to 12.6 fL and the black level floor to 0.0058 fL.

My modified "ANSI" contrast ratio is a figure-of-merit to characterize intra-image contrast performance. It is designed to minimize the influence of room reflections and other variables that would affect measurement accuracy. The modified "ANSI" contrast ratio of the HD2K projector measured." In the Widescreen Review article,this projector was rated at 500 lumens but actually measured at 587. Would anyone be surprised if the RS1 measures closer to 800 than 700 lumens? I will not be.

I was under the impression that the grey screens were invented to improve poor black levels and contrast ratios. With the RS1, why would anybody dull the picture with a grey screen? I think you want matte white or a high gain screen if you don't have perfect lighting conditions.

soren
Exeactly how much are you planning to use a projector in a year. I have fought hard to put 500+ lamp hours in one year. Doing 1000+ hours a year leaves little time for anything but projector watching.

Hello Mattias. I have 890 hours on in 7.5 months. This equals 1424 hours per year. We watch network TV and of course movies on the projector. I am looking for a laser based PJ to cut down on bulb costs. They can't come soon enough for me.

K

soren
Exeactly how much are you planning to use a projector in a year. I have fought hard to put 500+ lamp hours in one year. Doing 1000+ hours a year leaves little time for anything but projector watching.


I was planning on buying a Ruby last february, but decided to wait and bought a Hitatchi TX200 until the "new" stuff came out.
I have 350 hrs on that projector, and I have hardly watched anything last couple of months.
And with a new 1080p projector you have to rewatch every movie in HD :)

It's kinda worrying that JVC has not published any numbers yet!

It's kinda worrying that JVC has not published any numbers yet!

Life is too short to worry :)

I have confirmed that the current model of this projector will have HDMI 1.2 and not HDMI 1.3. I do not know if 1.3 will be implemented at some point.

Question: does the JVC DLA-RS1 accept 1080p VGA input from the Xbox 360?
(The Pearl doesn't... this may be a selling point for me).

I was under the impression that the grey screens were invented to improve poor black levels and contrast ratios. With the RS1, why would anybody dull the picture with a grey screen? I think you want matte white or a high gain screen if you don't have perfect lighting conditions.

This is a very significant point, and one that has occurred to me before, but I've never seen it discussed. Would be interested in hearing other comments on it.

This is a very significant point, and one that has occurred to me before, but I've never seen it discussed. Would be interested in hearing other comments on it.

LoveMovies is right. In my humble opinion, gray screens (and here I am talking specifically about the screen's color and not any fancy directional coatings that may have been applied by the manufacturer) are really better suited for very bright projectors, with lumens to spare, which need help generating a darker black.

The JVC sounds like it already has a BL that is low enough, and it doesn't have the lumens, in my opinion, to overcome the dimming effect that the gray screen will have on the image.

I would pair this projector with a white screen like the ST130 or one of its less expensive clones. Some will prefer a higher gain screen.

Question: does the JVC DLA-RS1 accept 1080p VGA input from the Xbox 360?
(The Pearl doesn't... this may be a selling point for me).

I wanted to ask the same question.

thanks
francis

I have confirmed that the current model of this projector will have HDMI 1.2 and not HDMI 1.3. I do not know if 1.3 will be implemented at some point.
I wouldn't worry about HDMI 1.3 for now. I haven't heard a single company mention for definite that they have a product which includes HDMI 1.3 RECEIVERS yet.
Even when they do, they probably wont take full advantage of the potential.

I think the upcoming Epson TW-1000 is to have HDMI 1.3. BUT, I have no idea as to the relevance of this feature - i.e., is their any reason why this feature is desirable from a performance standpoint?

Sony is going to use it for video games on the Playstation3. I think High Def video is a ways out. You all are asking about video gaming. Epson will be the first projector with a HDMI 1.3 receiver I believe. http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/faq.asp#q4_4 I would not be that concerned if you do not use your projector to game.

On your HD2k with the HTPC/processor combo, how much difference does that make? IOW, if you compare the level of image change from G15 to RS1 ... would a change from HDTV via DISH/DTV be a similar change if one went to an HTPC+video processor like yours?


There isn't a downside to replacing your G15 with the RS1. It's better in every respect. You'll also be going from all analog inputs and cabling to HDMI so cable losses and ringing and tracking and phase adjustments and all that will no longer be a concern. I'm not sure about he last comment. I use the HTPC for DVDs and for accessing movies on a video server but I like the upscaled image from a HD-A1 into a processor (for 1080p) better for regular DVD watching. The processor is also required to upconvert 1080i HD to 1080p for the HD2K. As far as source comparison (SD to HD) there is no comparison, definitely feed it HD if you can particularly HD-DVD.

I have confirmed that the current model of this projector will have HDMI 1.2 and not HDMI 1.3. I do not know if 1.3 will be implemented at some point.

There would be no way to "implement" HDMI 1.3 on a 1.2 device without at the very least changing the HDMI transceivers.


...The processor is also required to upconvert 1080i HD to 1080p...


Just a slight correction Mark, 1080i to 1080p is de-interlaced and not up-converted. ;)

I have confirmed that the current model of this projector will have HDMI 1.2 and not HDMI 1.3. I do not know if 1.3 will be implemented at some point.

That is a bit sad actually, not that it bothers me too much.

For me this is a projector that I will live with for a long time (at least 5 years!)
That is a long time (Will be my 7th projector in 8 years!).

Just a slight correction Mark, 1080i to 1080p is de-interlaced and not up-converted. ;)

Deinterlacing is the clearest term to use. I've always used upconversion to mean either deinterlacing or upscaling or a combo of the two, but I recognize that not everyone uses the same terminology.

There would be no way to "implement" HDMI 1.3 on a 1.2 device without at the very least changing the HDMI transceivers.

I got a second confirmation on that as well. Bottom line is not on this model.

That is a bit sad actually, not that it bothers me too much.

For me this is a projector that I will live with for a long time (at least 5 years!)
That is a long time (Will be my 7th projector in 8 years!).
I though the day had finally come when I could keep one for 5 years. The rate of progess has slowed but it is still moving at a fast pace. I am going to buy this projector and enjoy it. My next model will be able to display 2:35 native stuff without a big clumsy lens. The price and performance on this projector is so fantastic that I can not complain about any of the features it offers. Seven projectors in 8 years? Who are you kidding, the day that you will keep a projector for 5 years will never come:).

That makes sense. When I read it I thought he had both projectors (you never know some people collect the strangest things :)). As far as the Ruby vs RS1 goes, there was the CEDIA side by side (and the never ending question of setup). Once the RS1 ships it would be really interesting to see a shootout of both projectors tweaked to the max.
Have you contacted William Phelps yet?

Have you contacted William Phelps yet?

No, although I'm sure Wm will offer his services for the RS1 when it's released.

I'm chiming in as another "G-series" upgrader. I have had my Phelps-optimized G11/Panamorph combo for about 6 years and this is the first of the "reasonably priced" 1080p projectors to meet my installation requirements of having at least a 2.8x throw. Even at this throw, the room is long enought to require a 10' wide screen, which in my case is a Grayhawk. I've been getting some chuckles out of reading how this projector will be "unusable" at such large screen sizes without a high gain screen - I may indeed change at some point, but I know the RS1 is going to be a great improvement over what I have. And I haven't been unhappy with brightness (only watch with no lights though), but am looking forward to the vastly improved contrast, quieter operation, and all the other niceties...

Jay

To tell you the truth I get a kick out of the fact that so many people with the older G series projectors are talking about upgrading to an RS1. I'm kind of envious because I know the huge improvement they will get in their HTs. I wish I were there to see the look on their faces when the RS1 is first turned on. :)

I'm chiming in as another "G-series" upgrader. I have had my Phelps-optimized G11/Panamorph combo for about 6 years and this is the first of the "reasonably priced" 1080p projectors to meet my installation requirements of having at least a 2.8x throw. Even at this throw, the room is long enought to require a 10' wide screen, which in my case is a Grayhawk. I've been getting some chuckles out of reading how this projector will be "unusable" at such large screen sizes without a high gain screen - I may indeed change at some point, but I know the RS1 is going to be a great improvement over what I have. And I haven't been unhappy with brightness (only watch with no lights though), but am looking forward to the vastly improved contrast, quieter operation, and all the other niceties...

Jay

Jay, enjoy your upgrade. I predict that the look on your face when the RS1 is first turned on will look something like this: :eek: Followed by this: :D Then when your friends see it you will look something like this: :cool: