Now that these 2 are the same price, which would you choose? Has anyone compared them both? I've read Art's reviews and comparison, I'm just looking for more opinions. The HD70 has the 2 year warranty advantage. I don't need the extra brightness of the HD1000, so I'm unsure which way to go. I have a very dark painted room(black and dark gray) and total light control in my basement room. Thanks for any thoughts.

Well, it seems that according to projectorreviews, the only difference between the two is that the HD1000 is brighter.

And the HD1000 seems to have a better picture. I just wish it had a better warranty.

New price(without replacement bulb) for mitsubishi hd1000u is a great deal, better than optoma hd70 and the one year warranty is good enough for me , anyway in one year I'll be looking to upgrade to a 1080p projector for $999.00 :D

And the HD1000 seems to have a better picture. I just wish it had a better warranty.

It might be a function of the camera used at pjreviews but I actually thought the hd70 looked better.

Competition at the $1K mark is stiff as with the free lamp, the HD1000U is actually much cheaper than HD70 !!!

The Mits biggest advantage is the caibration out of the box is more likely to be better.

Why anyone would buy Panny AX100 LCD for double the price instead of this is beyond me (besides the flexible lens shift of the LCD PJ which can be negated with careful mounting). Projectorreviews ( http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/mitsubishi/HD1000U/imagequality.asp ) showed that they are similar (if not better on the HD1000U on left due to more natural skin tone and better dark detail--being DLP):
http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Mitsubishi_HD1000U_vsAX100U_PhantomStarLGE.jpg
http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Mitsubishi_HD1000U_vsAX100U_5th_starshiplarge.jpg
(the AX100U on right has better absolute black level due to dynamic iris but it crushes some details--less stars)

Huey, the lower price of the HD1000 does not include the free lamp. The prices are the same, but the HD70 has 1 more year warranty. Maybe now the rebates will start again. And after further searching Mits. authorized dealers, I only find one with this new price(without free bulb). That's strange.

If the lens of the HD1000 is on par with the HC3000 (good but not perfect) then it would have superior focus over the HD70 which uses a very cheap lens and shows the worst CA that I have ever seen .

To me this would be very important if deciding between these two , good focus is critical IMO .

Also after seeing the HD70 first hand I would have to think that the over-all build quality is better on the HD1000 (if it is indeed similar to the HC3000) , so this might help regarding that extra year of warranty .

With TSO's comparison claiming that the HD1000 is very similar to the HC3000 I would again have to suggest that as the better pick since the HD70 cannot compete with the HC3000 .

;) ---- Jason

I know we're treading on dangerous ground (Please post in my great found deals club member thread on cheap 720Ps!) but I've only seen a $100 price drop on the HD1000 - if you count the lamp as $400 then it's same as MRP for the HD70, don't see it cheap without the lamp anywhere...

Try Froogle for HD1000U and ya'll see :D
(arrange low to high prices, second page, skip all Brooklyn, NY sites of course as they're generally scams, use resellerratings or bizrate to review seller and make sure it's Mits authorized dealer)

I wasn't searching with the U - thanks. Erm if I searched correctly, the place has it for very cheap AND a free lamp rebate!? Guys I'd LOVE for you to join me on the 'Found Deals' thread where we can just talk about non-forum sponsors and prices, but the page I'm looking at has the rebate and a sub$999 price, I'm about to pull the trigger right here and now.

Spend the $30, support AVS, and get the freaking HD1000U for $528 if this is actually correct - I'm bewildered, but it looks legit. Come join me here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8318588#post8318588

These are the ONLY authorized dealers. Your warranty and free lamp (if offered) is invalid anywhere else

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/onlinedealer/ht/docs/new_members/?p=dealers

These are the ONLY authorized dealers. Your warranty and free lamp (if offered) is invalid anywhere else

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/onlinedealer/ht/docs/new_members/?p=dealers
Interesting, check out this (http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/wheretobuy/buynow.html) list and tell me how it's different - not arguing with you, and besides, the site I've found that's ubercheap and advertises the rebate isn't on my list either, but they do have that MOD seal on the page...

Found the site on froogle. $928 and free lamp seems to good to be true, and they do have the red MOD seal on the site. Need to call mitsubishi on Monday and see if this site is legit?

that is a crazy deal !

Yeah does seem too good to be true, we're working on calling the other authorized dealers for a price match.. the phone number for projectorpeople isn't working for me.. might be because I'm skyping from India - anyone?

Checking other authorized dealers (like projectorUSA) and they clearly stipulate that it can't be combined with the free lamp deal, so I find it hard to believe that the other site that's not even on the Mits dealer list(s) would sell it cheaper WITH the lamp.

Reviews of each on projectorcentral indicate better 480i deinterlacing with the HD70...

im not trusting those Froogle prices. id be interested to see if anyone atually got one at that price.

also, with the BB RZ coupon and sale price, the HD70 is A LOT CHEAPER than MSRP..

im not trusting those Froogle prices. id be interested to see if anyone atually got one at that price.

also, with the BB RZ coupon and sale price, the HD70 is A LOT CHEAPER than MSRP..


what sale price is that ?

Nightfly, I also saw that list of "Mits. online auth. dealers". There are 21 listed. And that earlier link showed only 5. What's the scoop?

Someone double check me, but I did not consider the HD1000U as it had even more posted lens offset. The Mit has 35% while the HD70 shows 33% (tho some who have gotten the HD70 are reporting it to be closer to 28%).

http://www.spinitar.com/new/company/history.aspx is the company in question's claimed history. They've been around for 20 years (so they claimed) Google Earth showed their store to be real and not shady like the Brooklyn stores. They also give free shipping and 72h return without restocking fee--not bad, of course shipping fees are not included. They also claimed they are authorized repair center for many AV equipment.

Being the lamp rebate is through Mits, I don't see how it matters what price you buy it at as long as the seller is Mits Authorized Dealer which they claim to be.

Here is directions listed to get to their place with 4 offices in 4 cities (San Diego, La Mirada, Hayward, and Sacramento): http://www.spinitar.com/new/contact/Directions_To_Spinitar.pdf (if they were shady they would not make it so easy to contact them or get to their office.

Here is Google Earth image of their office building (looks pretty decent size with plenty of parking and employees):

Yeah they say they have over 100 employees, too. However, I've got good news and bad news. I got an email from projectorplace (who IS on Mits' website as authorized) and they gave me a very low price <$900 but said "The free lamp has been discontinued as of 11/20 and not avialable on the projectors with the new price drop. Give me a call if you have any questions. 800 528 3611."

The shipping brought it up to just over $900, which imho, is a fantastic deal. I've got a lead on a HD70 for $950 so I'm gonna stick with that (don't ask it's not a deal others can get afaik). This pretty much ends this discussion for me, I have loyalty to Optoma and will pay $35 more for the PJ I really want.

Wish more of you would consider joining us on the paid side of things Found Deals forum, so we could really get down to business... but apparently they've realxed about talking about street pricing? (this could be my famous last post before getting nuked :) )

Actually no exact pricing was mentioned. We're merely discussing a company's reputation and reliability as an etailer. I've only mention the $1K mark and not specific to any PJ. The enclosed PDF showed Mits rebate which clearly stated the dates for the lamp rebate to be until 12/31/06: (even without the lamp, some may argue the HD1000U is a better PJ due to better brightness, better out-of-box colors, and all glass lens which means better sharpness).

Yeah I've got that PDF too, I just trust the authorized dealer when they say the company chose a price drop instead and are killing that promotion. The chances of getting both are slim to none. But low $900 for either PJ (which is what they seem to be commonly available for) is pretty awesome - what a great time to be buying projectors!

There are many more authorized dealers than that (AVS is not on the list!). Just type in the zip code 90638 under Find an Authorized Dealer and you will see Spinitar is OK.

This link might save you time:
http://mitsubishi.links.channelintelligence.com/Pages/pp.asp?cii_nIID=-1&cii_sSKU=&cii_sCT=&cii_nRID=-1&cii_nRGID=485&cii_nVID=-1&cii_nDSID=-1&cii_nPGID=1541&cii_sCountry=US&cii_sCDATA=&cii_sSort=&cii_sSortOrder=&cii_sZip=90638&cii_nRadius=50

Cool, thanks. I'll feel better about buying from them. It'll be interesting if Mits can retract on their bulb deal as the PDF clearly states the timeline to be til 12/31/06. It even said that dealers can't alter the deal. Most dealers still advertise the deal including Spinitar of CA. Of course #12 of the fine print states that they may change or take away the deal any time :(

Maybe the discounted projectors do not have a UPC bar code starting with 0824. Terms and conditions also list "discount websites" as invalid. This is the kind of stuff that makes rebates stressful.

I consider the rebate as a potential added bonus.

Of course it's always better to get the discount right off the bat than waiting for a bulb 6 weeks later in my book. Besides, they may let it through due to the specific date on the PDF coupon.

On a side note, projectorreviews website think HD70 is best at its MSRP but HD1000U is better at its higher MSRP. Here is a screenshot of the Phantom of the Opera HDDVD between the 2 (screenshots are fun but not accurate for true performance due to calibration difference between the 2 shots so YMMV). To me the HD70 is too red and not as sharp (look at the jewelry on her neck) as the HD1000U. HD1000U also has better dark detail due to it being brighter. Blacks are fairly similar to me.

I sent an e-mail to MITSUBISHI asking if they would accept the the free bulb promotion at spinitar,or any place that advertises the free bulb below the $1000
mark.

Keep us posted, Mark. I'd drop everything and go for HD1000u if there was even a 50/50 chance of getting the free lamp (I only consider even the best rebates as 50/50, I've just had bad luck and due to my international living situation don't follow-through like I might).

I did find this a ProjectorCentral.com,

"At first, you might think about a rear shelf behind the seats. However, the internal throw angle offset creates further limitations. The HD1000U has a fixed throw offset of roughly 35% of the picture height. This means that for a 100" diagonal 16:9 image, the bottom edge of the image will appear 17.15" above the centerline of the lens"

I only mention this as there was much talk (including by me) about the offset being so big on the HD70, it appears the HD1000U is even more at 35%.

But dang, that is a very good deal. Guess I'll do some quick math, as my HD70 is not here yet, so I can still switch.

Can anyone do a HD70 Vs. HD1000 review? These both look like great projectors but it seem like the HD70 gets much more attention.

Of course it's always better to get the discount right off the bat than waiting for a bulb 6 weeks later in my book. Besides, they may let it through due to the specific date on the PDF coupon.

On a side note, projectorreviews website think HD70 is best at its MSRP but HD1000U is better at its higher MSRP. Here is a screenshot of the Phantom of the Opera HDDVD between the 2 (screenshots are fun but not accurate for true performance due to calibration difference between the 2 shots so YMMV). To me the HD70 is too red and not as sharp (look at the jewelry on her neck) as the HD1000U. HD1000U also has better dark detail due to it being brighter. Blacks are fairly similar to me.

Ill take that one step further.... these are the 3 shots that are comparable in size from the pjreviews.com's review between the HD70 and 1000U. And to me the only way to really tell much of a difference is have the 2 images right next to each other so you can start to see the differences.


Support the Website that took these pictures by reading the whole reviews for each projector (a direct link to each review is posted below)
There are also many other screenshots for each projector that are more than worth looking at.

HD1000U:
http://projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/mitsubishi/HD1000U/index.asp
HD70:
http://projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/optoma/HD70/index.asp




LOTR - Gandalf
HD1000U
http://projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Mitsubishi_HD1000U_LOTR_GandalfLarge.jpg
HD70
http://projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Optoma_HD70_LOTR_Gandalf1Large.jpg

Phantom of the Opera
HD1000U
http://projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Mitsubishi_HD1000U_PhantomStarLarge.jpg
HD70
http://projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Optoma_HD70_Phantom_StarLarge.jpg

Serenity
HD1000U
http://projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Mitsubishi_HD1000U_Serenity_fleetLarge.jpg
HD70
http://projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Optoma_HD70_Serenity_fleetLarge.jpg

And here are a couple of the same smaller shots:
LOTR - Shadow Detail (overexposed)
HD1000U
http://projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Mitsubishi_HD1000U_LOTR_watchfireOver.jpg
HD70
http://projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Optoma_HD70_LOTR_watchfireLarge.jpg

Starship Troopers Dance
HD1000U
http://projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Mitsubishi_HD1000U_starship_party.jpg
HD70
http://projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Optoma_HD70_Starship_Party1.jpg

I think the reason for the extra press is that the HD1000u just dropped in price a week or so ago, it'll heat up :)

On the Mits website it states that the HD1000 has 10 bit color, but on the websites selling it say 16.7 million. Isnt that 8-bit?

I can be wrong, but I think 16.7mil is 10-bit, 600,000 is what you get from 8-bit. Didn't research just what's kicking around in my brain's cache :)

As for those comparitive screenshots, art said that the HD70's Gandalf was the only one to show a green push and it was an artifact of his camera, not what he observed irl, but I see it on the serenity shot too. I think both are awesome and will please the broad majority of users, go HD1000u for better out of box color/calibration and brightness, go HD70 for better warranty and, ya know, if you like iPod white :)

I can be wrong, but I think 16.7mil is 10-bit, 600,000 is what you get from 8-bit. Didn't research just what's kicking around in my brain's cache :)

As for those comparitive screenshots, art said that the HD70's Gandalf was the only one to show a green push and it was an artifact of his camera, not what he observed irl, but I see it on the serenity shot too. I think both are awesome and will please the broad majority of users, go HD1000u for better out of box color/calibration and brightness, go HD70 for better warranty and, ya know, if you like iPod white :)

No question about it. Those HD70 images lack calibration. Since all three show the notorious "green" push, it has to be the PJ.
The BIG benefit will be the extra lumens offered by the 1000. Art mentioned it even bested the Panny ax100 light cannon, which is paramount for members wanting a BIG screen...like me.

pretty interesting comparisons in screen shots.

So the differences in those images are a result of the bad calibration? From those screenshots the HD1000 looks a lot better than the HD70

So the differences in those images are a result of the bad calibration? From those screenshots the HD1000 looks a lot better than the HD70

ProjectorReviews normally calibrates unless they want to show what the presets looked like. Probably better to link to his reviews rather than snag his snaps because you lose context. As well his site depends on advertising to fund his reviews - so jagouar you are not doing him any favors by providing a review compilation such that people need not visit his site.

If those were supposed to be calibrated pics- it is possible that he had calibrated the HD70 in low power lamp. When high power lamp warms up - it shifts the white point about 10% yellow - and that is exactly what it looks like happened because Gandalf is creamy rather than snowy white. The other pics look Red pushed or Green pushed depending on colors - which is exactly what Yellow is - Red+Green.

In a calibrated image there should not be any difference in the white points - only gamma and RGBCMY should be slightly different - since those cannot usually be calibrated in budget PJ.

jagouar you are not doing him any favors by providing a review compilation such that people need not visit his site.

Food for thought. Art (ProjectorReviews) did us all good. We should return it, if possible. Perhaps a link? (Admittedly, they are nice to look at.)

Yes, anyone interested should go visit the entire review. It really is an excellent, fair, unbiased, detailed review. You are doing yourself a dis-service if you don't read it all.

As for the pic's...I don't know...the color may be "better" for the HD1000U but is seems a little to good. It looks a little digital and cold. The HD70 seems mre realistic to me. But that is just a non pro opinion. They really are both incredible and make me so glad to be upgrading right now.

Food for thought. Art (ProjectorReviews) did us all good. We should return it, if possible. Perhaps a link? (Admittedly, they are nice to look at.)

I totally agree and edited my post.... the reason I put it up though was even looking at each review separately you cant really look at the nuances between the grabs unless they are right next to each other (which was the reason I posted the few grabs that were of the same content in each review). There are many other grabs posted on each projectors respective review. If tptb/pjreviews still want it taken down I will be happy to but I think comparing the screenshots like this is much more effective than trying to compare it based on 2 separate reviews.

As for the pic's...I don't know...the color may be "better" for the HD1000U but is seems a little to good. It looks a little digital and cold. The HD70 seems mre realistic to me. But that is just a non pro opinion. They really are both incredible and make me so glad to be upgrading right now.

I agree with that as well... I dont know why but the HD1000U shots just dont look right in some cases. Other than the gandalf shot (which the HD1000U looks superior) I perfer the look of the HD70 in the rest of the shots. I agree with the cold statement (which is especially visible on the lotr mountains shot)

From those pics the Mits looks alot better.If that is indeed a calibrated HD70,thats bad.The HD70 shots look like my old homemade lcd projector lol!

The Optoma HD70 was built from scratch to be a $999 projector. This should have implications on build quality and shortcuts made to achieve this price point, while maintaining a maximal profit.

The HD1000, on the other hand, was built from scratch to be a $1500 projector (and it shows: all glass lens, 10bit color, etc). The only reason it is now sold at less than $1000, is because the competition with the HD70.

I really don't understand the debate here, the winner between those two is so obvious it's painful.

For my eyes, those shots look pretty close though. I know none of us should base our decision on screen shots (too many variables) ...but both look great to me. I kind of prefer the Mits slightly. Looks like better black levels on the Serenity shot and more natural fleshtones on the Phantom one.

Still, pretty dang impressive that either one of these can be had for under $1K. Unreal and unheard of a few years ago....:)

Nice links jagouar!

I own the HD70 and I am very happy with it. (But, I do want blacker blacks . . . won't go there now.) I think the HD70 is a huge step up from the X1.
I like the price (mine was less than MSRP) the warranty the backlit, well laid-out remote the extreme quiet (especially compared to the X1!) The amount of possible adjustments to the image is also a huge improvement over the X1. (I don't know about the Mits 1000) And the PQ seems very good after putting the PJ through the DVE disc.


However, I would definitely be looking at the 1000 after looking at these pictures. I do think having one single calibrator do his best on each machine and then A/B testing them might produce different results. But that's speculation. And I'm keeping the HD70 so I'd rather not speculate. ;)

Don't forget HD70 has an extra year of warranty which is worth some bucks in my mind. On the other hand, Mits make better PJ overall. Hmm, tough call in my book but HD1000U gets the edge. If the free bulb is real even at this lower price point, then HD1000U will kill HD70.

No free bulb at that price.

Don't forget HD70 has an extra year of warranty which is worth some bucks in my mind. On the other hand, Mits make better PJ overall. Hmm, tough call in my book but HD1000U gets the edge. If the free bulb is real even at this lower price point, then HD1000U will kill HD70.

Yes it is a very tough call.... and both ways have their advantages. Me personally Im leaning towards better warranty namely because my AE700 (which one of these will be replacing) and the blue lcd is screwed up and Im out of warranty so I will likely lose a ton of $ selling this from its original price. And I never want to experince this again so regardless which way I go Im going to spend the extra couple hundred to get a nice extended warranty. Im actually looking at the one posted here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=727816). Seems like a good deal for the price but I need to verify they cover both of these projectors.

Is there any way that the HD1000 can be TOO BRIGHT for my room(even in low power)? I have total light control, black ceiling and screen wall, 3 dark gray walls, and 106" UPW painted screen. After reading Art's review, it sounds like it may be too bright. Any opinions?

I totally agree and edited my post.... the reason I put it up though was even looking at each review separately you cant really look at the nuances between the grabs unless they are right next to each other (which was the reason I posted the few grabs that were of the same content in each review).

Look more closely at his reviews - the pics with a larger link pic behind it are outlined in blue. Simply open in new window - then browse to the competing review and do the same. Now you can flip between the two pics for an even better comparison.

I presume for bandwidth reasons that not all the large pics are linked.

I personally don't think there is anything "too" bright... :)
I can say that the low power mode of the 1000 is significantly lower. If your screen is a 1.0 gain, I would say you can stop down the image nicely. Then, when it's football time, or other HD viewing, you have the extra oomph. The good thing about the HD1000 is that it cranks up lumesn without sacrificing image quality too much. Not sure why this is, but it's my experience.

The Optoma HD70 was built from scratch to be a $999 projector. This should have implications on build quality and shortcuts made to achieve this price point, while maintaining a maximal profit.

The HD1000, on the other hand, was built from scratch to be a $1500 projector (and it shows: all glass lens, 10bit color, etc). The only reason it is now sold at less than $1000, is because the competition with the HD70.

I really don't understand the debate here, the winner between those two is so obvious it's painful.

Your not saying that a more money always gets you a better pic are you?

Also don't forget technology has changes and manufactoring is cheaper. So just because the HD70 is less $$ doesn't mean they haven't found a way to get the most out of these $$.

I'm not really arguing that the HD70 is better, but I don't think the price point has anything to do with it. Remember both the X1 and 4805 were designed for specific uses and price points. Yet they were widely accepted to outperforme more expensive alternatives.

So the HD70 doesnt really look that bad?

I just want to know what the best choice (between the two) is for a 92" diag. screen in my basement with a 7' ceiling and only a very dim light for finding my way around. I dont really care about the remote, menus, and whatnot. What should I get? :confused: :eek:

So the HD70 doesnt really look that bad?

I just want to know what the best choice (between the two) is for a 92" diag. screen in my basement with a 7' ceiling and only a very dim light for finding my way around. I dont really care about the remote, menus, and whatnot. What should I get? :confused: :eek:

Do you plan to ceiling mount? Don't forget to do the math and see if they will work in your set up. One row of seats or two?

One row, I guess I could mount any way but would prefer ceiling. Does that mean I have to invert it...I was just planning to do a homemade mount.

In regards to the Mits possibly being too bright, Art recommends a gray screen. This not only helps on black levels but cuts down on some slight light leakage too.

I think? Art uses the Firehawk which is a light gray. I can't afford that one but am looking at one similar.

Kind of weird and yet cool that I paid about $1300 for my Panny 300u back in early 2003. Nice pj for sure...for the price and all...but NOTHING close to what the screenshots of the Mits and Optoma are giving us. And for $1K. Now that's progress! :)

One row, I guess I could mount any way but would prefer ceiling. Does that mean I have to invert it...I was just planning to do a homemade mount.

Yes, mounting screw are on the bottom of the projector so you would invert it. Plus don't forget the lens offset. This means is you put the PJ on a table the image is actually higher then the table. So when you invert the PJ for ceiling mount, now the image is lower then the PJ.

The HD70 is listed as having 33% offset, tho in real life some are finding it closer to 28% offset.

Does anyone have experience with the Mitsubishi displaying 24hz, 48hz, or 72hz from, say, an upconverting DVD player like the Bravo D1 or one of the Oppos?

And I do mean displaying. The HD70 will accept 72hz but doesn't display at that rate (still does some strange pulldown on it, and no audible change in color wheel speed from 60hz) but @ 48hz 3:2 pulldown is eliminated and one can hear the color wheel change speed from 60hz.

bigredmachine878, did you get an answer?

I have the same setup as you, 92" screen, in the basement with no windows and complete light control. I was ready to pull the trigger on the Hd70, the noticed the Mits price drop. If the Mits is an overall better projector I will go with that, if they will produce the same picture based on my room conditions, I will go with the Hd70 because of the 2 year warrenty.

Any suggestions?

Jeremie

Bad news, potentially. The Mitsubishi's data sheet,

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/pdf/mitsubishi_hd1000u.pdf

indicates that it doesn't support/accept either 1080p or multiples of 24hz. (HD70 does both)

Would be great if someone could confirm...

I'm not sure what the big deal about accepting 1080p is? Most people today buy DVD players that upconvert better than their projectors. There is no reason to think that an HD-DVD/Bluray player won't downconvert better than a projector as well.

I'm not sure what the big deal about accepting 1080p is? Most people today buy DVD players that upconvert better than their projectors. There is no reason to think that an HD-DVD/Bluray player won't downconvert better than a projector as well.

24hz multiples is much more important to me than 1080p acceptance.

Does anyone know how the black levels and contrast compare on these 2 units(without AI on HD70 used)? I read the reviews on them and I still am confused.

Well, I bit on Spinitar. $928 for a Mitsubishi HD1000U is too good to pass up, but I complained about CA tax, and they dropped to $900 even(Lorena, really nice). They said they drop ship them straight from Mitsubishi. I figure if I have any problems, I can go complain at their local office (San Diego).

Many sites now carry an updated rebate form that says that the free bulb is only valid for purchases through 11/20 - TODAY!! So, if you want to take a chance, you've got 40 min's (They're PST, and close at 5PM).

I'm coming from an Epson PowerLite 600P LCD that I bought years ago. I've actually been quite happy w/ it for video games (and don't mind all the shortcomings compared to modern projectors). But in my research it was clear it was either a HD70 or HD1000U for price/performance when the Mitsubishi was $1500. At $900+CA Tax for this WITH a free bulb - hallelujah!

I'm a new member, but figured I'd register since all good info I've received on many topics has been from this site. I've seen something about not posting too much price information. Sorry if this is any violation of that. Just thought I'd try to pass on the info as quick as possible.

I *hope* I don't have too many prob's setting up Wii to work w/ projector.

Well, I bit on Spinitar. $928 for a Mitsubishi HD1000U is too good to pass up, but I complained about CA tax, and they dropped to $900 even(Lorena, really nice). They said they drop ship them straight from Mitsubishi. I figure if I have any problems, I can go complain at their local office (San Diego).

Many sites now carry an updated rebate form that says that the free bulb is only valid for purchases through 11/20 - TODAY!! So, if you want to take a chance, you've got 40 min's (They're PST, and close at 5PM).

I'm coming from an Epson PowerLite 600P LCD that I bought years ago. I've actually been quite happy w/ it for video games (and don't mind all the shortcomings compared to modern projectors). But in my research it was clear it was either a HD70 or HD1000U for price/performance when the Mitsubishi was $1500. At $900+CA Tax for this WITH a free bulb - hallelujah!

I'm a new member, but figured I'd register since all good info I've received on many topics has been from this site. I've seen something about not posting too much price information. Sorry if this is any violation of that. Just thought I'd try to pass on the info as quick as possible.

I *hope* I don't have too many prob's setting up Wii to work w/ projector.


Thanks for the plug, I bit too!

I also spoke with Lorena, who sold it for the same price. If the free bulb works too, this would be a phenominal price! Even without it it's an excellent price. I hope I am happy with my jump into the HD projection world!

-Josh

I got one too. I'm not sure I should post the price though. It was quite a bit less than everyone that has posted so far. I actually sent an email yesterday for a price quote and Lorena honored it. Almost to good to be true. I called at 4:55PST and talked with Lorena and ordered it. She assured me that the invoice will say 11/20/2006 on it. I was almost going to get either the Panny AX-100U or the Epson 400 from Costco but this deal was just to good to pass up. I should have it in my hands by Friday. I'm going to a local Wilsonart distrubuter tomorrow and pick up a 5X8 sheet of fashion gray.

I'm not sure I should post the price though. It was quite a bit less than everyone that has posted so far.



Hmmmmm,

Let me quess, $860 ;)

Yeah I havent gotten a straight answer yet. Nobody has told me why the hd70 screenshot looks so inferior and if it can look as good as the mits. And whats the deal with 24hz?

You guys are gonna get a spanking for talking about prices and dealers. Naughty, naughty.

Hmmmmm,

Let me quess, $860 ;)


Hmmm.... Let me guess, you got the same quote.

Yeah I havent gotten a straight answer yet. Nobody has told me why the hd70 screenshot looks so inferior and if it can look as good as the mits. And whats the deal with 24hz?

The straight answer is do not put too much emphasis on screen shots. They are fun to look at but certainly not a basis for making a decision for or against a particular projector.

I heard a few different reason, (bad screenshots, bulb warming up, bad calibration, etc.) and I just wanted to know if it was from those reasons or it was that big of a difference from the HD1000

Are the lenses on these 2 projectors threaded to accept filters? Or would they have to be taped on? I'm worried that the HD1000 may be too bright for my room.

I bought one too with Spinitar for $928 shipped, tax free to IN. Don't know if I'll get the bulb as my receipt said 5:34pm 11/20/06 (after they closed at 5pm). Since the rebate form does not specify a time, I hope I have a shot :D

Even if I don't get the bulb, this is a great price. I'd rather get the discount upfront than wait for a bulb which can be had for $300 shipped.

I just pulled the trigger as well. What the heck. I was trying to get a quote for a better price like some of you - but they must have been all busy with YOU all.... had to order for the regular price. Figured that the more I think about this purchase the more likely it won't happen or that I'll wind up on some backorder list... :) Plus next week something new and amazing will come out so... :)

I am going to assume that the date of the 20th is the 20th. Period. My printed receipt shows the 20th.

Whoooo HOOO!

I just pulled the trigger as well. What the heck. I was trying to get a quote for a better price like some of you - but they must have been all busy with YOU all.... had to order for the regular price. Figured that the more I think about this purchase the more likely it won't happen or that I'll wind up on some backorder list... :) Plus next week something new and amazing will come out so... :)

I am going to assume that the date of the 20th is the 20th. Period. My printed receipt shows the 20th.

Whoooo HOOO!

After shopping pj's for about 3 months, I just bought the 1000U too. Given this week's price drop and the end of the rebate, it seems to me that the 20th might have been THE day to buy it. OTOH, given the end of the rebate, you have to wonder whats going to happen to the price in the next few weeks. The guy who took my order mentioned that their cost had just gone down "significantly". Price wars are great!

Now for the next question - what screen to go with it???

i suppose low gain screen like light gray screen would be nice

Bad news, potentially. The Mitsubishi's data sheet,

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/pdf/mitsubishi_hd1000u.pdf

indicates that it doesn't support/accept either 1080p or multiples of 24hz. (HD70 does both)

Would be great if someone could confirm...

Why is it important to have multiples of 24hz? What does that do? Reduce flicker?

nice to see some people joining in, I ordered one today also, where are you guys getitng the new rebate form?

where are you guys getitng the new rebate form?

I bought mine today too. Hopefully the new rebate works. Heres the link.

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/pdf/HD1000U-Lamp-MailInRebate.pdf

This has kind of turned into the Mitsubishi 1000 thread. ;)

This has kind of turned into the Mitsubishi 1000 thread. ;)

Well it would appear that any reason to buy the HD70 has just gone down the toilet.

Well it would appear that any reason to buy the HD70 has just gone down the toilet.
Maybe - maybe not. I'd sure like to read the review of a side-by-side.

Although, I am very happy with our HD70. Not at all a poopy PQ. Quite good, almost excellent! Except for what I suppose is the achilles heel of all Digital PJs: Black level. (I haven't seen what I would call "Great" black level on any Dig. PJ) I wonder if a very expensive digital projector can do black blacks or is it just a limit of Digital projection? I realize that projecting black light is tough.

I'd rather have a 720P PJ that could do excellent black levels than a 1080P that does black levels as I currently see them.

Except for what I suppose is the achilles heel of all Digital PJs: Black level. (I haven't seen what I would call "Great" black level on any Dig. PJ) I wonder if a very expensive digital projector can do black blacks or is it just a limit of Digital projection? I realize that projecting black light is tough.

As I understand the mystery of the DMD chip in DLPs, the mirror tilts in such a way as to not reflect any light for a 'black' pixel - so I wonder why it doesn't work as well as we'd hope :) Any insight?

Guys just wanted to share my current thoughts. I know we're in the middle of a migration away from the HD70 towards the HD1000u, but I'm seriously considering a totally different direction all of a sudden. B&H has a black friday deal on the Z4. Depending on how you value the free lamp and 92" draper luma screen (that any good, btw? I'd use it in a second location) the net price is shockingly cheap for what was a top tier projector 2 months ago.

I'm a DLP fan, hate SDE, sit 1.5-1.7 from an XGA screen now. I know SDE will be more of an issue, but I'm trusting the extra 64% pixel increase should render it less of an issue from 1.7.

I feel this PJ is in another quality category of these two bargain units. It just happens to have entered their price category. Super easy to set up (huge zoom, 2-way lens shift) tons of inputs and pretty much the sharpest 720p picture of anything 'cept the Z5 (but it's half the price if you count the lamp and screen to be $380). I think dynamic iris (vs the fake and to-be-avoided AI) will bring the contrast/blacks to a comparable level - at least with the HD1000u (since it's so bright).

Maybe I should start a thread here, but I know there must be dozens between these 2 in the same price segment who might also consider the Z4 - I'd like your views. Thanks.
Alex

p.s. check Great Found Deals for the link, or FW.

Yea, I saw that as well. Lens shift would sure make placement easier. However, I love my X1 and have no problems with DLP issues, so think I will stick with that.

Now the question becomes do I cancel my order on the HD70 (BB ordered for me with my 12% coupon) and get the HD100u? Believe it or not, my wife got really excited that the HD70 was "iPod" white. We have white track lighting and she thinks it will look perfect! Course I'm more concerned with image quality....

Smallish room (12X15), current screen size is 94" diagonal, but may build a 100" screen (that would be the max). Good light control tho for noon football games have some minor issues (tho will take care of by adding BOC to my drapes). I think the key for me is two rows of seating and only 8' ceiling. The HD1000U appears to have even more lens offset then the HD70...so likely will stick with the HD70. And some of the screen shots on the HD100U while excellent seem a little cold and digital looking to me.

Hey, both are excellent and what a time to buy!!!! Now throw in the Z4 and everyone is going to have a PJ!

Is there any way that the HD1000U can be too bright for me?
And where can I get some specs for the Z4?...I dont know who makes it.

Sanyo makes the Z4, more info than you're probably up for at projectorcentral and projetorreviews (.com respectively).

I just recieved my HD70 yesterday, I was pleasently supprised to be able to mount the HD70(using no zoom) in the same spot as my previous Screenplay 4800(using full zoom). The image is slightly bigger, and spills over the top and bottom of my screen by about a 1/4 inch. I was using my 4800 in 16:9 mode. I will most likely move it forward slightly in the future for no spill over.

The picture out of the box on my HD70 was very nice. Haven't calibrated it yet, but MNF looked amazing.

Well,

Got a phone call from (the now famous) Lorena from Spinitar this AM, as I left her a voice mail immediately after I placed my web order there at 8:30PM yesterday.

She did confirm that since I placed the order on the 20th that she would make sure the purchase qualified for the lamp coupon. Sweet!!

Whoa - that is a sweet deal!

I called her today too and she promised to make sure my invoice said 11/20/06 even though I placed the order at 5:34 PM PST yesterday (34 min. after they closed yesterday). Good thing too as she needed the 3 digits security code on the back of my credit card (must have forgotten to enter it yesterday). I would hate to delay my purchase :D I guess I have to retire my LT150 for now. Once warranty is out (1 year), I'll paint my clear segment of my color wheel (just like my LT150) for even better blacks and less brightness. I will use my old existing 62 mm Hoya FL-D filter in the mean time to reduce the brightness, reduce screendoor effect, cuts green, and boosts reds.

They removed that PDF from their website today as the coupon has expired.

Well at least I was not careless and not enter that 3 digit code as I generally fill out all the fields :D

Another Lorena fan here...

Though I wondered about giving out credit card info to someone who called me; isn't that breaking one of the identity theft rules?

Gave a lot of thought to waiting for a DC3 but decided this projector should hold me off until 1080 projectors drop into my price range.

Thinking about an ND2 filter to darken the blacks but I may not want to tone down the brightness. My screen is 92" matte white so it may be too bright until the lamp ages a couple hundred hours but I like the idea of a very bright image.

Anyone know if the Toshiba HD DVD player works well with this projector? I remember a few 3000 owners reporting good results, though I'm not sure what output they used. It sounds like the 720p output may not be the greatest on the Toshiba. Wonder how well the 1000 scales a 1080i input?

No pricing guys!! Or where to buy.

It's about time Kysersose. I thought you'd retired :D

Why is it important to have multiples of 24hz? What does that do? Reduce flicker?

It eliminates the jerkiness of the 3:2 pattern of 3:2 pulldown where 24 frames/sec of film are being inverse telecined to 60hz.

It makes a big difference in the motion you see, and I'm afraid the HD1000 won't support 24/48/72hz.

Bad news, potentially. The Mitsubishi's data sheet,

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/pdf/mitsubishi_hd1000u.pdf

indicates that it doesn't support/accept either 1080p or multiples of 24hz. (HD70 does both)

Would be great if someone could confirm...

my HC1100 shouldnt support 1080p but it does so this sheet dont mean it wont.

my HC1100 shouldnt support 1080p but it does so this sheet dont mean it wont.

Now we just need someone to confirm with the HD1000.

Does your HC1100 accept and actually display any multiple of 24hz?

Your not saying that a more money always gets you a better pic are you?

Also don't forget technology has changes and manufactoring is cheaper. So just because the HD70 is less $$ doesn't mean they haven't found a way to get the most out of these $$.

I'm not really arguing that the HD70 is better, but I don't think the price point has anything to do with it. Remember both the X1 and 4805 were designed for specific uses and price points. Yet they were widely accepted to outperforme more expensive alternatives.

I agree. I've personally bought a lot of high-priced "crap" over the years based on the views of "experts" and the published specs. This is not an attack on anyone here, but I can't imagine anyone investing $1000 in a pair of speakers without hearing them first. If you're going to buy a projector, it's wise to see it for yourself. Screen shots don't mean a whole lot; you need to see how the unit performs with a variety of material, just as you would with a pair of speakers. As regards the Mits HD 1000 vs the Optoma HD 70, on paper, the Mits looks to be a very capable unit, as does the HD 70. Art's review of the 70 gives an edge to the Mits overall, but says the 70's blacks are better on the darker scenes. He concludes that, for blacks, they are in the same league. In bright mode, Art concludes that the 70 cranks out less lumens than the 1000, but that the colors were more accurate on the 70.

So which do you buy? Be wary of argumetns that the Mits is a $1500 PJ for $950. I've learned from hard experience to be suspicious of electronics that are steeply discounted shortly after launch. My advice--audition any unit you plan to buy, preferably against others in your price range.

You can't go wrong with Mits. The steep discount was only to compete with the new price point in the industry.

The HC3000 accepts 1080p & 48Hz (I have not tried 72Hz) so it is possible that the HD1000 does as well . However I have not heard the color-wheel shift speeds when trying 48Hz from an HTPC (via HDMI) .

--- Jason

You can't go wrong with Mits. The steep discount was only to compete with the new price point in the industry.

Point taken. But you can bet they're still making money, even at this price point. Price doesn't always equate with quality and pricing strategies frequently have more to do with market perceptions, rather than with value. I don't argue with the fact that the Mits is a highly competitive unit at under $1,000. All I'm saying is that the assumption that it's a $1500 unit now available for under $1,000 may not represent the quality "reality." The HD 70 vs HD 1000 argument may be more complex than price and perceived quality and to buy on this basis might not be the best decision. I think Art's review and comparison indicates that both PJs should be seriously considered. And the best way to consider them is to try (if possible) to audition them both. Personally, I'd love to have them both! :)

Best,

Brian

W/out saying any specific numbers, did people in California pay CA sales tax when you purchased the HD1000U through Lorena over the phone? I did. Someone on FW says they didn't when they went through the website, though.

The HC3000 accepts 1080p & 48Hz (I have not tried 72Hz) so it is possible that the HD1000 does as well . However I have not heard the color-wheel shift speeds when trying 48Hz from an HTPC (via HDMI) .

--- Jason

Ok, you didn't hear the color wheel speed change...is your eye attuned enough to notice 3:2 pulldown and the absence of it? Did you notice the elimination of 3:2 pulldown?

I have to say... I was very much towards the HD70. I thought I had it nailed, as the Mitsubishi was a bit more than I really wanted to spend.

Then the price drop. Now, I realize there are differences, but I have to say, I am a huge fan of Mitsubishi for a number of reasons. The first one most people forget about, which is build quality.

My first large TV was a 60" Mitsubishi big screen. It was analog, but it was great. In fact, it is still chugging along at my wife's cousin's house. The thing was built like a tank. Trying to get it into the basement of my last house, I tried to take it apart and the unit, even with every screw removed from the back was completely glued into place as well. Ouch. I removed the screen and it was just small enough to fit through the doorway as there was strange angle into the basement.

My second Mitsubishi is a projector. Now, keep in mind, it is at 6 years old. It's a first generation DLP. Good resolution for the time (1024x768) and tiny, tiny. Under 4 lbs, I think. I used to walk into customers and pull it out and they were amazed. I still get strange looks when I pull it out of my backpack (which often carries 2 laptops, gps, projector, ipod, bose headphones, psp, shure headphones and a couple books).

This thing has travelled for 6 years (about 100K miles a year), been abused, and has held up to everything and has very good image quality, but only has about 800 lumens. My only complaint with the unit was the short power cord. Easy to fix.

A couple years ago, I picked up a Mitsubishi DLP projection TV. I love the image quality on it. It recently moved from SLC to Utah and had a little shifting. But, pretty easy to correct. The thing is great.

Mitsubishi just builds electronics to last (as I am not sure I could say the same about their cars.) :)

So, for one of the biggest reasons to buy a Mitsubishi is the pure build quality I will get out of it.

Other nice things that point me towards the diamonds are:
1. Mitsubishi has a good track record for replacement parts.
2. Reliability of the products I have owned (never needed service, minus my DLP's adjustments).
3. Centered lens. This should help with keeping the projector in the center of the room, rather that having an offset lens.
4. Price. I can get the Mitsubishi for less than I can get the HD70, although I did find a 10% off coupon for the HD70 at CC, I would still have to pay sales tax.

While there are a couple compromises that could be argued, I am going with the Mitsubishi.

Now, I have seen the 928 price. I just paid my $35 after lurking on here for a couple years and there aren't any better prices listed in the deals section.

So, if you got an incredible price, please PM me. I would love to get a great deal.

I have to say... I was very much towards the HD70. I thought I had it nailed, as the Mitsubishi was a bit more than I really wanted to spend.

Then the price drop. Now, I realize there are differences, but I have to say, I am a huge fan of Mitsubishi for a number of reasons. The first one most people forget about, which is build quality.

My first large TV was a 60" Mitsubishi big screen. It was analog, but it was great. In fact, it is still chugging along at my wife's cousin's house. The thing was built like a tank. Trying to get it into the basement of my last house, I tried to take it apart and the unit, even with every screw removed from the back was completely glued into place as well. Ouch. I removed the screen and it was just small enough to fit through the doorway as there was strange angle into the basement.

My second Mitsubishi is a projector. Now, keep in mind, it is at 6 years old. It's a first generation DLP. Good resolution for the time (1024x768) and tiny, tiny. Under 4 lbs, I think. I used to walk into customers and pull it out and they were amazed. I still get strange looks when I pull it out of my backpack (which often carries 2 laptops, gps, projector, ipod, bose headphones, psp, shure headphones and a couple books).

This thing has travelled for 6 years (about 100K miles a year), been abused, and has held up to everything and has very good image quality, but only has about 800 lumens. My only complaint with the unit was the short power cord. Easy to fix.

A couple years ago, I picked up a Mitsubishi DLP projection TV. I love the image quality on it. It recently moved from SLC to Utah and had a little shifting. But, pretty easy to correct. The thing is great.

Mitsubishi just builds electronics to last (as I am not sure I could say the same about their cars.) :)

So, for one of the biggest reasons to buy a Mitsubishi is the pure build quality I will get out of it.

Other nice things that point me towards the diamonds are:
1. Mitsubishi has a good track record for replacement parts.
2. Reliability of the products I have owned (never needed service, minus my DLP's adjustments).
3. Centered lens. This should help with keeping the projector in the center of the room, rather that having an offset lens.
4. Price. I can get the Mitsubishi for less than I can get the HD70, although I did find a 10% off coupon for the HD70 at CC, I would still have to pay sales tax.

While there are a couple compromises that could be argued, I am going with the Mitsubishi.

Now, I have seen the 928 price. I just paid my $35 after lurking on here for a couple years and there aren't any better prices listed in the deals section.

So, if you got an incredible price, please PM me. I would love to get a great deal.

You bring up some great points. While somewhat still debating, I think I'm going to stick with the HD70 that I have on the way. The final staw for me was placement. Due to lens offset the HD70 is going to be very, very close to the screen being a little low. But the Mit has even more lens offset. I really, don't want to rebuild the riser on my 2nd row, so I think the HD70 will fit better in my room.

No doubt you cannot beat the Mits build quality. I agree, every Mits I have bought from their cars, SUVs, electronics etc are just build to last. Support is great and price/value/quality is hard to beat.

My parents have a very old mitsu tv that still woks fine but I have introduced em to the digital age so it got passed on to my cousin. But that this is about 25 yrs old. I still remember being a young kid in the store when we bought it. We have a mitsu wide screen and a regular smaller tv, not a problem with em, al i have a 99 mistu galant, Car has over 80K miles, I drove it and now is on my secon little sister, Only needed breakes twice and NOTHING else. no strts tune up nothing ans still runs like a charm

That being said, We are definitely partial to Mitsu in this house, I was walling to buy this A 1500, it just so happened the da I went to purchase it, the price dropped. I am hapy i have this, I cant wait to get it mounted :)

You can haggle with Projector People for less than $900 shipped if you mentioned your other price to them. Although not sure if $30 makes a huge difference in the big picture :D

Yeah Spinitar gave me a quote that was just a hair under 9 shipped. Looks like that'll be common price. Pretty amazing, and probably the last nail in the coffin of mass HD70 adoption.

Ok, you didn't hear the color wheel speed change...is your eye attuned enough to notice 3:2 pulldown and the absence of it? Did you notice the elimination of 3:2 pulldown?

Yes I can detect it but when I tested 48Hz I did not spend time watching it at that rate , I just wanted to see if it would take it ;) .

----- Jason

Not to be a stick in the mud here , but ...


No pricing guys!! Or where to buy.


Be nice to the forum and it will be nice to you :D .

---- Jason

Pretty amazing, and probably the last nail in the coffin of mass HD70 adoption.

LOL, sorry, i find that extremely comical. There are those of us that are hardcore Optoma fans, and will stick to them as our preference for Budget PJ's for a while to come. I would never consider the HD1000 even at its new price point, the throw is too long to consider and i like Optoma warranty work a lot, they're really on the ball with it. Both the HD70 and the HD1000 can be had for nearly the same price, and theres positives/negatives on both sides of the fence. You can be sure that the HD70 isn't going nowhere from my setup tho, regardless of the mitsu's price. I just love this damn thing. And it does 48hz no prob.

Hey I'm an Optoma fan, too. I'm not suggesting people are going to replace HD70s with HD1000Us, budget guys don't turn 'em over THAT fast, but I think you watch and see the HD1000u will start getting more attention here than the HD70, hard to gauge it but I think it'll start selling faster.

The throw is almost identical (100" image give or take 6" either way for placement) although the offset is a little more extreme. It's brighter, by all accounts has better PQ, a better lens, and is $100 cheaper. I'm sure I'd be thrilled with either one, and have been following the HD70 from the beginning, but I think Mits beat Optoma at their own game with the more-aggressive pricing, more plasma-like pop for the buck. If the HD70 drops to $850 to compete, who's going to complain :)

No doubt you cannot beat the Mits build quality. I agree, every Mits I have bought from their cars, SUVs, electronics etc are just build to last. Support is great and price/value/quality is hard to beat.
plus they've been around a lot longer....I just watched pearl harbor. all them mitz zero's...made me glad I went with the optoma....just kidding :p

Yes I can detect it but when I tested 48Hz I did not spend time watching it at that rate , I just wanted to see if it would take it ;) .

----- Jason

hmmm....so it is possible that it accepted it and did some pulldown, a la the HD70 @72hz...

Does the HD-1000 have the correct mode to stretch an HD letterboxed image for an anamorphic lens? Also, did anyone clarify if it could handle 1080P signals? I have to send my Z5 back becuase it doesn't work with my lens unless I buy a scaler. I know the HD70 has the correct modes thanks to JediMike.

I'm interested in both these pj's can anyone confirm that the hd1000u runs 48hz?

I second that request, does anyone with this projector have a HTPC or scaler that can output 48hz. If so please report if this projector will display at that rate.

Thanks.

you guys gotta stop talking about mits cars "built to last" you're killin me

still have a montero sport I bought new back in 1999. Has 250000 miles on it and drives and looks the same way it did back then. All that is done to it is Amsoil synthetic oil changes every 8000 miles or so and two sets of yoko tires. We keep it for guests when they visit and use it to haul trailers and boat. I would say that it was built to last.

I'm interested in both these pj's can anyone confirm that the hd1000u runs 48hz?

I'm interested in both these pj's can anyone confirm that the hd1000u runs 48hz?

Even if it accepts 48hz or 72hz that doesn't mean it displays it. Someone with an eye that can tell when 3:2 pulldown is or isn't occuring can confirm it, or if someone listens and hears the color wheel slow down that would do it too, but if the projector just says something like "Source Lock: 1280x720 48hz", that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Which one of this has noisier fan and easier for ceiling mounting ?

Thanks,
-Nick

Either of projector is not easier for celling mounting than the other。hd70 has fixed offset about 30%, hd1000 about 33%。Don't know which is quieter。

Our HD70 was very easy to ceiling mount. I used a simple ball and socket mount I got on eBay. Cost: about $30 delivered.

The noise is extremely low with our HD70, almost not there. We do not use the AI setting or the the High mode, so the fan is always in low speed. Brightness seems excellent. The brightness is better now that we have put some hours on the lamp. It seemed too bright at first.

The Offset on the HD70 seems to be less than 30% (24 - 28% ?). Our PJ is 11.75 feet back from the screen, 3.5" down from the ceiling. The screen is 15" down from the ceiling and is a 100" diagonal screen. We are zoomed all the way out. No keystoning is being used.
The ceiling in our HT is only 7' so I was concerned about the offset. Worked out very nicely, but I couldn't make a PJ with a steeper offset fit. (From what I read about the Mits 1000 it wouldn't have fit, but it sounds like an excellent PJ.)

Good luck - we are very happy with the HD70.

Our HD70 was very easy to ceiling mount. I used a simple ball and socket mount I got on eBay. Cost: about $30 delivered.

The noise is extremely low with our HD70, almost not there. We do not use the AI setting or the the High mode, so the fan is always in low speed. Brightness seems excellent. The brightness is better now that we have put some hours on the lamp. It seemed too bright at first.

The Offset on the HD70 seems to be less than 30% (24 - 28% ?). Our PJ is 11.75 feet back from the screen, 3.5" down from the ceiling. The screen is 15" down from the ceiling and is a 100" diagonal screen. We are zoomed all the way out. No keystoning is being used.
The ceiling in our HT is only 7' so I was concerned about the offset. Worked out very nicely, but I couldn't make a PJ with a steeper offset fit. (From what I read about the Mits 1000 it wouldn't have fit, but it sounds like an excellent PJ.)

Good luck - we are very happy with the HD70.

Good comments. Appreciated. I ordered my HD70 about a week before Thanksgiving (whatever the day the BB coupon expired). It should be here 12/8. I have done some minor debating on it to cancel and go with the Mit or stick with the HD70. Based on the lens offset and your comments (and others) that the offset is not quite as sever as listed, I think I'll stick to the HD70. While I have 8' ceilings, I have two rows of seats.

Based on the lens offset and your comments (and others) that the offset is not quite as sever as listed, I think I'll stick to the HD70. While I have 8' ceilings, I have two rows of seats.

I would add that I should drop the screen a couple more inches to completely squareup the picture. However, no one but me notices the slight imperfection. And I'm framing the image in black felt. (I'm also going to use black felt panels to remove the "Dark-gray for Black" letterbox bars in 2.35 films. I did the same with our X1 and it REALLY improves the PQ a lot! I'll also mask out the window-boxed 4:3 films.)

Good luck - we are really enjoying the increased "EVERYTHING" the HD70 delivers over our old (but MUCH enjoyed) X1. :D

Cyrano, do you have some sort of system for adjustable black felt (for when aspect ratios change)? I've thought about different levels of unfolding velcro, but always seemed more hassle and micromanagement than I wanted.

Thanks for all the feedback guys :)

I would add that I should drop the screen a couple more inches to completely squareup the picture. However, no one but me notices the slight imperfection. And I'm framing the image in black felt. (I'm also going to use black felt panels to remove the "Dark-gray for Black" letterbox bars in 2.35 films. I did the same with our X1 and it REALLY improves the PQ a lot! I'll also mask out the window-boxed 4:3 films.)

Good luck - we are really enjoying the increased "EVERYTHING" the HD70 delivers over our old (but MUCH enjoyed) X1. :D

Excellent! I'm also upgrading from an X1. And you are right, the X1 is nice. My wife watches Desperate Housewives in HD on the X1 and asks "why are we getting a new PJ?". So I appreciate that it will be "that much better".

What color screen are you using? My X1 screen is pretty white and the latest excellent review of the HD70 recommended a grey screen. I'm also posting in the screen section in laminates, but was curious what you were using.

Thanks!

nightfly13,
I built simple hinged panels to rotate down and up to mask for 2.35 movies, attached to my home-made screen. Works great.

What color screen are you using? My X1 screen is pretty white and the latest excellent review of the HD70 recommended a grey screen. I'm also posting in the screen section in laminates, but was curious what you were using.

Thanks!
You're welcome.

I'm using a Doable sheet. (Home Depot - $15) It's nice and easy to work with. I'm just using the surface "as-is". I cut the 49"X97" board into a 49"X87.2" screen. (I did glue 1X2s on-edge to the screen back edges and in a truss-like shape [a "W") on the middle back to make it rigidly flat.) That makes it 100" diagonal. I wanted to retain the 49" height (same Doable panel although 4:3 shaped - 49"X62.5") I had used with the X1 as I don't want my Classic (4:3) films to be any smaller. And the 4:3 films are better on the new screen as the SDE is so much better.

I had painted my other Doable screen. I used two coats of Undercoat (sanded lightly - and evenly - ) and two coats of Behr Ultrawhite. I haven't painted this screen yet and the Doable surface is very good. But I can see a couple of scuffs that I will have to remove. (No one else seems to see them though - ;) ) I will probably use a lightly grayed white. There is a Behr paint called Silverscreen that I want to try. Also a clear, matte poly final coat is recommended by some in the DIY screen forum. I might try it on top of the Silverscreen.

Good luck Sdallnct - be sure and post your observations when you get set up. And I do recommend (DIY) calibrating the HD70 before making any judgements. It's a little too hot and colorful out-of-the-box, IMO.

Cyrano, do you have some sort of system for adjustable black felt (for when aspect ratios change)? I've thought about different levels of unfolding velcro, but always seemed more hassle and micromanagement than I wanted.

Thanks for all the feedback guys :)
Hi Nightfly13,

I use Velcro (the "male side) on the vertical sides of the screen's frame (2") to allow the Felt strips (Felt is like the "female side of Velcro) to attach easily. With our X1 screen I would just attach the Felt to the Velcro each time I wanted to use it. And fold and store the Felt strips when not in use. This time, with our new HD70 screen, I want cover the Screen's frame in the same Felt and just have the panels be part of the top and bottom frame side and roll them down (and up) to attach to the Velcro placed on the vertical edges, where needed.

I also want to do the same to the sides of the screen. I want Felt Panels to reside on the vertical sides of the frame so that they can be unrolled (Left and right) and attached to mask a 4:3 film.


I find that it makes a huge (emphasis on the huge) difference to remove the Dark-gray-for-black comparison letterbox/windowbox areas. When the picture pops out of the black it really seems to have much better blacks.
At the Cinema I noticed that blacks really weren't all that black. But they mask off any unused screen with curtains. I like my setup at home better because the curtains are invisible. All we see is the Film.

Good luck.

Thanks! That's very useful information.

Our HD70 was very easy to ceiling mount. I used a simple ball and socket mount I got on eBay. Cost: about $30 delivered.

The noise is extremely low with our HD70, almost not there. We do not use the AI setting or the the High mode, so the fan is always in low speed. Brightness seems excellent. The brightness is better now that we have put some hours on the lamp. It seemed too bright at first.
...


Good luck - we are very happy with the HD70.

MY HD1000 just came today to replace my 4805. I am getting nervous with all this talk of how bright it is. I have Do-able screen, and I believe it's only 92" or so. Am I going to be watching a giant bike reflector?

MY HD1000 just came today to replace my 4805. I am getting nervous with all this talk of how bright it is. I have Do-able screen, and I believe it's only 92" or so. Am I going to be watching a giant bike reflector?

Heck, no! In the kids' theater room, I run an Optoma EP719 (more lumens than HD1000) running on a 1.5 gain screen with a mere 84 inch image. It looks fine--not unpleasant at all. The image is like a big LCD panel running in bright mode.

Enjoy your Mits!

Brian

I don't know if its specific to the online dealer, but pcssuperstore has a rebate that extends the deadline to Dec. 31st for the free lamp.

If i can snag the HD1000U with a lamp for 1k, i think i'll go along with it as well.

this (http://www.pcsuperstore.com/rebates/K65693.pdf) is a link to the rebate.

Edit:

I assumed this was kosher since the previous rebate was linked. If not, i apologize and please delete the post.

I don't know if its specific to the online dealer, but pcssuperstore has a rebate that extends the deadline to Dec. 31st for the free lamp.

If i can snag the HD1000U with a lamp for 1k, i think i'll go along with it as well.


The rebate for the free bulb expired on Nov. 20. I would doubt that Mits will give a free bulb with the projectors sold at the new MSRP of $999. BTW, the original date was Dec 31. I would bet that the online dealer has just failed to upate their site. Be a great deal if it is still available though.

Can anyone clear up the free bulb by Dec. 31 question? This is REALLY influencing my decision of HD1000 vs. the Optoma HD70.

Thanks for any leads!

My prediction...Mitsubishi and these online dealers are going to have some angry customers on their hands because of the rebate change.

Has anyone ever heard of a company changing a rebate end date like this? Suppose I had printed the rebate and was just waiting for my divorce to be finalized before I purchased the projector--the house, the car, fine...she's just not getting the projector.

(No, I'm not really getting divorced...I have yet to meet another woman that will let me sit here for hours on end reading about AV equipment.)

Nice...just noticed this, the final condition, on the rebate:

"12. Mitsubishi reserves the right to rescind or change offers at any time without notice."

My prediction...Mitsubishi and these online dealers are going to have some angry customers on their hands because of the rebate change.

Has anyone ever heard of a company changing a rebate end date like this? Suppose I had printed the rebate and was just waiting for my divorce to be finalized before I purchased the projector--the house, the car, fine...she's just not getting the projector.

(No, I'm not really getting divorced...I have yet to meet another woman that will let me sit here for hours on end reading about AV equipment.)

Come on now...not that big of a deal. If you hadn't bought the PJ yet, then you are not out any money. Can you really claim something bad, when you didn't buy one? I mean if you had bought AND they said you couldn't get the free bulb, different story.

Besides they gave something in return, a lower price. So you could have bought one under the old pricing for about $300 more but get a free bulb. Or you can buy for $300 less and have $300 lleft over to buy a bulb. What is the big deal? Same price! And for those few people who happened to be lucky and buy on the 11/19-20 and got the new pricing AND the free bulb, well good for them! As they say...timing is everything.

Good luck Sdallnct - be sure and post your observations when you get set up. And I do recommend (DIY) calibrating the HD70 before making any judgements. It's a little too hot and colorful out-of-the-box, IMO.

Oh yea, it will be a DIY screen for sure. I already have one that I'm "happy" with for my X1. Just figured I would go a little bigger, maybe 100" and try something different. Right this second I have it narrowed down to the Do-able or DW laminate.

I was reviewing one more time and went back and read the Art's excellent review one more time. That Gandof pic really bothered me. But I did notice he has a 2nd Gandof pic at the very end of the review and I compared side by side. The 2nd one is much better. I think he mentioned here that possibly the color tint on that first Gandof was due to his camera. Think I was agree based on the pic's in the summary.

Sticking to the HD70, receieved a 25 foot HDMI cable from Monoprice today. Don't know where by Bravo D1 is, but should be here shortly. And my PJ should be here 12/8....

I generally thought the Mits' pictures looked better than the HD70's in Art's review. The HD70 fits my situation and I think I have adjusted it to do a pretty good job. I like the 2 year parts and labor warranty. I like most everything about the HD70 except the black level. But I think I want actual black and I don't think a Digital PJ will do that for me.

I hope I'm wrong.
I'd rather have a 720P w/actual blacks than a 1080P w/dark-gray blacks. But I really do like the ease, flexibility, adjustability, and mechanical silence of this PJ. We just watched "Back To The Future" tonight and it was great. The limitations of the DVD were more evident than the limitations of the PJ.

Two more BTTF episodes to go. I like it. :D

I generally thought the Mits' pictures looked better than the HD70's in Art's review. The HD70 fits my situation and I think I have adjusted it to do a pretty good job. I like the 2 year parts and labor warranty. I like most everything about the HD70 except the black level. But I think I want actual black and I don't think a Digital PJ will do that for me.

I hope I'm wrong.
I'd rather have a 720P w/actual blacks than a 1080P w/dark-gray blacks. But I really do like the ease, flexibility, adjustability, and mechanical silence of this PJ. We just watched "Back To The Future" tonight and it was great. The limitations of the DVD were more evident than the limitations of the PJ.

Two more BTTF episodes to go. I like it. :D

Well other then the Gandoff pic, I actually like the HD70 better. Maybe I want to like it better, but since I still don't have it yet, I could get the Mit. But anyway, while I was impressed with the sharpness of the Mit, the other pic's seemed a little cold or digital to me. The hd70 seemed a touch warm and more natural. Now that is just my opinion....

And I totally agree with you on placement issue. I'm barely going to make the HD70 work, with even more lens offset, don't think I could make the mit work without major renovations to my room.

I agree: The HD70 is better! :D

Well, for my purposes the HD70 works. I could not have any more offset than I've got with the HD70. At all!
The HD70 in combo with the Bravo D1 is a great combination. I have no buyer's remorse. When we got our Infocus X1 (July 2003) I remember all the threads questioning its Videophile status. It always happens.
I do the best with what I've got and it seems to work out.

How many people here have actually given enough time to both projectors to REALLY say which one is better?

How many people here have actually given enough time to both projectors to REALLY say which one is better?Excellent question.

I tend to agree. I printed the rebate a while back and I also saved a pdf of the rebate as well. Based on this rebate, my purchase qualifies. Had it not been for reading about it on the forum I would have never known the rebate was "over".

The requirements are: Purchase a HD1000U between October 1, 2006 and December 31, 2006 from an authorized dealer which I have. Fill out and mail in the form, I will. Include the UPC bar code, will do.

Now, I am not sure if I will actually be getting the rebate. Will I be mad if I don't, not really. I still got a great projector for a great price. I personally have never seen or noticed a rebate retraction like this before and had I not been following the forums I would have never known about it. I am going to mail in the rebate with all the documents and see what happens. ;)

My prediction...Mitsubishi and these online dealers are going to have some angry customers on their hands because of the rebate change.

Has anyone ever heard of a company changing a rebate end date like this? Suppose I had printed the rebate and was just waiting for my divorce to be finalized before I purchased the projector--the house, the car, fine...she's just not getting the projector.

(No, I'm not really getting divorced...I have yet to meet another woman that will let me sit here for hours on end reading about AV equipment.)

A question

This has been addressed a bit, but didn't seem to get picked up.

the HD70 does do 1080p while the HD1000U only does 720p. How big of a factor should this be in the choice between the two?

A friend of mine is basically saying that it should be a make or break decision if it does 1080p or not, as it will make a big different in video quality of future programming. My main concern, though, is that i can get a HD1000 for 900w/lamp and am unsure if i can do the same for the HD70.

A question

This has been addressed a bit, but didn't seem to get picked up.

the HD70 does do 1080p while the HD1000U only does 720p. How big of a factor should this be in the choice between the two?

A friend of mine is basically saying that it should be a make or break decision if it does 1080p or not, as it will make a big different in video quality of future programming. My main concern, though, is that i can get a HD1000 for 900w/lamp and am unsure if i can do the same for the HD70.

The HD70 does NOT output 1080p. It will accept a 1080p signal just fine, but what you are seeing projected is a downscaled 720p image. Same story with the HD1000.

The DMD chips in each one is 1280 x 720. It's physically impossible for them to display 1080p. And it would cost 3x more if they did.

A question

This has been addressed a bit, but didn't seem to get picked up.

the HD70 does do 1080p while the HD1000U only does 720p. How big of a factor should this be in the choice between the two?

A friend of mine is basically saying that it should be a make or break decision if it does 1080p or not, as it will make a big different in video quality of future programming. My main concern, though, is that i can get a HD1000 for 900w/lamp and am unsure if i can do the same for the HD70.


Not sure what "does do 1080p" means, you mean take 1080p source and scale it to 720p? By that time you would want a PJ capable of displaying 1080p to match your sources capability.

Also, might anybody be able to comment on how the HD1000 handles light in a room? Can you watch a movie in the daytime with only the blinds drawn with little hassle? What about with the lights on?

The HD70 does NOT output 1080p. It will accept a 1080p signal just fine, but what you are seeing projected is a downscaled 720p image. Same story with the HD1000.

The DMD chips in each one is 1280 x 720. It's physically impossible for them to display 1080p. And it would cost 3x more if they did.

thanks for the clarification

The rebate is still available from pricegrabber with the dates 10/01/06 - 12/31/06. I don't think there is any question that the rebate for the free lamp coupon is still valid. That should make the decision easier for some to get the HD1000u. I guess I can't post the link yet because I'm a newb, but just go to pricegrabber and search for hd1000u and you'll see it.

With the HD100U I can watch a movie or a game with my lights on. I have the projector in low lamp mode but there are various gamma settings. I have a 106" screen and watching the game via HD from CBS looks like a huge plasma!!

The rebate is still available from pricegrabber with the dates 10/01/06 - 12/31/06. I don't think there is any question that the rebate for the free lamp coupon is still valid. That should make the decision easier for some to get the HD1000u. I guess I can't post the link yet because I'm a newb, but just go to pricegrabber and search for hd1000u and you'll see it.

I was told by an authorized dealer that Mitsubishi is actually keeping track of all serial numbers of units sold after 10/31, and won't honor the free bulb on those units.

I know you will have the urge to argue that the date on the rebate says so and try to fight it. But before you do that, read the last line of the rebate.

With the HD100U I can watch a movie or a game with my lights on. I have the projector in low lamp mode but there are various gamma settings. I have a 106" screen and watching the game via HD from CBS looks like a huge plasma!!

I concur. I have mine in low lamp mode and is plenty visible in moderate lighting. It has the capability to ramp up much brighter if I need it to.

I concur. I have mine in low lamp mode and is plenty visible in moderate lighting. It has the capability to ramp up much brighter if I need it to.


Thank you both! You just cost me 1000 dollar. Not sure if i hate you or love you.

Actually the rebate changed to 11/20/06 midstream (not 10/31/06) on 11/18/06 when the MSRP dropped to $995 a few days prior to that (they literally alter the PDF overnight). They will piss off some people who downloaded the original PDF that said 12/31/06. Serial number won't help Mits as it may reflect build date much earlier than 10/31/06. Invoice/receipt dates are all Mits can go on which has the revised deadline of 11/20/06. Mits will bank on the last line on the rebate that said they can change or retract the offer anytime. We will argue otherwise. It's up to Mits to decide if it's worth the bad PR to decline these rebates.

I hope you guys get in under the wire on the free lamp. But, Mits can not be responsible for what pricegrabber or any other outfit puts up on their site.

It is pretty obvious what Mits intended. Drop the price and get rid of the free lamp and from all I have read that happened on 11/20. I think the test at Mits will be the price on the invoice. If it is $995 no lamp.

It will be a pretty hard case to argue when the form is clear they can change the deal at any time. May not appear right but they can hang their hat on it.

I agree, but the average person who doesn't read or follow the forums would have no clue. I think those folks will be pretty upset when they unknowingly send in their UPC, and other papers, and then get no rebate. My authorized dealer did not even inform me when I ordered, that.... by the way you realize there is no longer a rebate on these right? I plan on sending mine in because as far as the rebate that I have in my hands goes, I qualify. BUT, I personally would not be upset if they decline it because at sub $900 I think this projector is an amazing deal right now...Their intentions were obviously good but this might blow up in their faces PR wise.

It will be a pretty hard case to argue when the form is clear they can change the deal at any time. May not appear right but they can hang their hat on it.

Got my Mits HD1000U last night. Hooked it up though VGA, looks alright. Need to order a HDMI cable.

Does anyone know of either, a setup guide for this projector or a generic setup guide for DLP projectors? Or should I just leave everything to AUTO?

Jeremie

I am torn between the two projectors. Here are my room dimensions:
Front Wall: 7 1/2 ft high x 20 ft wide (wall angles up to 10 ft due to roofline)
Rear Wall: 10 ft high - 20 ft wide with double doors at the back
Side Walls - 7 1/2 ft high with 2 columns on each side x 20 ft long
Projector would likely hang down and be 7 ft or so (can make it lower if necessary) from the floor (3 ft from ceiling)

So basically I have a ~400 sf room to work with that has component prewiring in the ceiling for a Projector at 13 1/2 ft from the front wall. I am going to have 4 Berkline media recliners delivered today and next need to figure out what to buy for a Projector (likely will build a screen)

Up until now I have not read much about projectors since I never had the space. Ideally I would like to get the largest picture I can out of the space available. However, I do plan on putting my audio equipment below the screen so that will be a factor likely in the size of the screen.

Can anyone help with which projector is better for my room setup? Recommendations for screen size?

Got my Mits HD1000U last night. Hooked it up though VGA, looks alright. Need to order a HDMI cable.

Does anyone know of either, a setup guide for this projector or a generic setup guide for DLP projectors? Or should I just leave everything to AUTO?

Jeremie

Just got mine too. I don't think there is a setup guide, this is a very new projector. We are treading on undiscovered territory, we are pioneers. :p

If anyone can pm me a good place to purchase this pj for the great deals you guys have been getting, I will pull the trigger right now :0)!

Also, I own an HD70, just wondering what it means as to when the HD1000 will not accept a 1080p signal or whats going on with that.

I need a slightly brighter pj with better blacks, and I think I found it :0).

Also, I own an HD70, just wondering what it means as to when the HD1000 will not accept a 1080p signal or whats going on with that.

I need a slightly brighter pj with better blacks, and I think I found it :0).

My HD1000 accepts 1080p just fine.

Officially ordering!

Few questions Im not clear on...

Does either one or both have sealed optics
Does the Mits accept 1080p from a pc i.e. @ 60hz

My HD1000 accepts 1080p just fine.

So does that mean the manual is wrong? It only says 1080i.

Yes I believe it is wrong. I've seen a few people say it accepts 1080p but I think they all been using players of some type. I wanna know if pc 1080p with 60hz works, less hassle if it does.

Why is everyone so batty over 1080P? The HD1000 is a 720P projector. It's just going to scale 1080P down to 720P anyway. Feeding this projector the same source 1080P is going to result in a non-existant difference in image quality as opposed to just sending it 720P from the start. The built in on the fly video scaler isn't going to be able to add quality by going from 1080. No scaling at all will produce the best result.

I'm seriously considering the HD1000U to replace my X1. Can someone PM me a good place to get it, as well as how much an X1 with ~900 hours on the bulb and a 100" pull-down screen might go for locally?

Why is everyone so batty over 1080P? The HD1000 is a 720P projector. It's just going to scale 1080P down to 720P anyway. Feeding this projector the same source 1080P is going to result in a non-existant difference in image quality as opposed to just sending it 720P from the start. The built in on the fly video scaler isn't going to be able to add quality by going from 1080. No scaling at all will produce the best result.

Everyone already knows that. Has nothing to do with why I want to know. Its becuase I dont feel like changing the damn res of the pc every single time I wanna turn on the projector. No kidding it will down res, but still the better the source down res or not, you still get a better picture most of the time. Just ask any X1 owner how HD looks on it. But again picture quality has nothing to do with it , hassle has everything to do with it though.

So anyone know about sealed optical paths and I remember now do both support HDCP at all res I never see either things mentioned anywhere.

The Mitsubishi has sealed optics.

HDMI automatically means HDCP support.

Everyone already knows that. Has nothing to do with why I want to know. Its becuase I dont feel like changing the damn res of the pc every single time I wanna turn on the projector. No kidding it will down res, but still the better the source down res or not, you still get a better picture most of the time. Just ask any X1 owner how HD looks on it. But again picture quality has nothing to do with it , hassle has everything to do with it though.

So anyone know about sealed optical paths and I remember now do both support HDCP at all res I never see either things mentioned anywhere.

Now wait a second! You got my attention.....

You are so right, OTA HD look significantly better on my X1 then DVDp. Now I don't have the greatest DVDp, but....still.

Are you saying the HD1000U will show a "significant" better image on 1080 source material then 720p source material? I ask as I do plan on getting a PS3 for my son and use that as my HD DVD player till the format war settles.

Will the HD70 not take a 1080 source?

As an X1 owner myself, I agree that HD material looks better than SD DVD's. This is likely due to the fact that, while not truly HD, the 800x600 resolution the X1 supports is higher than 480p. Also, the X1 has a good deinterlacer. In the end what you see is somewhere between 720p and 480p, if I am not mistaken.

I would say about $400-$450.

As an X1 owner myself, I agree that HD material looks better than SD DVD's. This is likely due to the fact that, while not truly HD, the 800x600 resolution the X1 supports is higher than 480p. Also, the X1 has a good deinterlacer. In the end what you see is somewhere between 720p and 480p, if I am not mistaken.

I also have an X1 and it certainly does look better on Comcast cable HD broadcasts than it does on DVDs (I have a pretty good Denon DVD player) but I don't believe it is for the reasons you give.

480p as in the InFocus IN72 or the 4805 uses a TI DMD chip at 854 by 480. This allows a DVD to be displayed natively without scaling of anykind and results in an excellent picture. Notice that 848 by 480 is 16:9. The XI uses a an 800 by 600 DMD chip. It actually has more pixels than the 16:9 chip but it uses fewer when displaying a DVD. The X1 crops the 480 by 854 DVD picture to 450 by 800. It does this to avoid scaling. The DVD display of an X1 has 15 pixels less than 4805 (top and bottom) and 24 pixels less (side to side).

When I watch a football game on one of the 720p HD channels there is scaling (1280 is mapped to 800, and 720 is mapped to 600). However there is no deinterlacing as it is a progressive signal. It looks sensational. When I get a native 720 pj like the HD70 that signal will no longer be scaled (or deinterlaced). I expect it therefore to be a bit better.

However I don't really like football (its too wimpy - I like Unlimate Warrior - King of the Cage stuff). This material and CSI (lots of gore) is broadcast in 1080i. This requires my setup to both scale and deinterlace. However it also looks sensational no matter what the theory.

A show like CSI which is shot digitally always looks better on my setup to my age dimmed eyes than does any movie that has been tele-cined with 3:2 pulldown. Movies, even HD movies, are noticeably softer than end-to-end digital productions.

When Comcast replaced my settop box, the picture on SD TV got noticeably better. Previously I only enjoyed HD content because SD just wasn't good enough to blow up to 100+", now can view SD Indie movies and they look fine. I suspect that the picture quality improvement from the settop box upgrade will have been greater than the improvement that comes with a higher resolution projector.

I think the reason the HD content looks better is it has a better (less processed) signal - not anything to do with the X1 itself.

The simple reason is its better to remove detail thats there, than to try and fake adding detail that doesn't exist. AKA high quality down res always looks better than crap quality upconverted. Has nothing to do with the X1 native res, well cept in its lack of it.

Are you saying the HD1000U will show a "significant" better image on 1080 source material then 720p source material?

I would not say "significant" but from my experiments tonight I have found that the image with a 1080i signal (cable via component and Oppo 970 DVD player via HDMI) looked better than when both were at the 720p setting

Oh I forgot I had thoughts on "significant" as well. I basically concur with pcrx. Its better and its nice but "significant" is subjective. I prefer it 1080i but 720p doesn't keep me up at night.

Well that is why I put significant in quotes. I truely realize it is subjective, but was hoping it would at least start the discussion. Which it did :D

OK, for TV, I will have OTA HD and in the future DishNetwork HD. Simple enough as neither are 1080p, so both the Mit and HD70 should handle the same. Correct?

I just received a Bravo D1 that I need to do the mod on and firm upgrade and be set with that. Hopefully. But in any event, both the Mit and HD70 should handle the same. Correct?

Now for the blue ray player in the PS3: Would there be a difference in how the two PJ handle this? Will both PJ's accept the the signal and down res it to 720? Or will I have to set the PS3 to a different setting. Guesses on how this would effect the pic quality?

As a review I have a HD70 on the way, but could change. However, do to room limitations I think I'm sticking with the HD70 unless, there is some other area I'm missing (like how each handles 1080p).

EDIT: Ok, I answered my own question. The way this conversation was going I got the feeling the HD70 would not take a 1080p signal, but I looked it up.

Compatibility: PC/Mac Compatibility: SXGA+, WXGA, XGA, SVGA, VGA Compression
Video Compatibility: HDTV (720p, 1080i, 1080p); SDTV (480i/p, 576i); NTSC (M/J, 3.58/4.43 MHz); PAL (B,D,G,H,I,M,N); SECAM (B, D, G, K, L)
VESA Standards

So I guess technically there still could be a difference in that one could down res better then the other, but it should still be very, very close.

I've been hearing that the Mits is sharper, but I don't know the source of this understanding. I'm also keen to know the contrast differential - does the Mits' brightness equate to worse blacks/shadow detail when optimized for cinema.

Ratings are differ widely (4000:1 on HD70, 2500:1 (which I already have!!!) on the HD10000u.

I've been hearing that the Mits is sharper, but I don't know the source of this understanding.

I'm sure you have read it, but it is worth another look if it has been a while. Art's EXCELLENT review talks and shows screen shots regarding sharpness.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/optoma/HD70/index.asp

[QUOTE=nightfly13]I've been hearing that the Mits is sharper, but I don't know the source of this understanding. I'm also keen to know the contrast differential - does the Mits' brightness equate to worse blacks/shadow detail when optimized for cinema.

Ratings are differ widely (4000:1 on HD70, 2500:1 (which I already have!!!) on the HD10000u.[/QUOTE
I've read that once the hd70's calibrated its close to 2500:1 anyway (actally lower and those 4000:1 contrast ratings are with both ai on and bulb in bright mode so....I wouldnt use those actually I mostly see it advertive as 3500:1 or somthing along those lines...the colors being compromised is what gives the added contrast along with the clear section. You could probably get more contrast out of the mits by sacraficing color accuracy as well. (I do love my HD70 I'm just not letting it cloud my judgment here)

I also have an X1 and it certainly does look better on Comcast cable HD broadcasts than it does on DVDs (I have a pretty good Denon DVD player) but I don't believe it is for the reasons you give.

480p as in the InFocus IN72 or the 4805 uses a TI DMD chip at 854 by 480. This allows a DVD to be displayed natively without scaling of anykind and results in an excellent picture. Notice that 848 by 480 is 16:9. The XI uses a an 800 by 600 DMD chip. It actually has more pixels than the 16:9 chip but it uses fewer when displaying a DVD. The X1 crops the 480 by 854 DVD picture to 450 by 800. It does this to avoid scaling. The DVD display of an X1 has 15 pixels less than 4805 (top and bottom) and 24 pixels less (side to side).

When I watch a football game on one of the 720p HD channels there is scaling (1280 is mapped to 800, and 720 is mapped to 600). However there is no deinterlacing as it is a progressive signal. It looks sensational. When I get a native 720 pj like the HD70 that signal will no longer be scaled (or deinterlaced). I expect it therefore to be a bit better.

However I don't really like football (its too wimpy - I like Unlimate Warrior - King of the Cage stuff). This material and CSI (lots of gore) is broadcast in 1080i. This requires my setup to both scale and deinterlace. However it also looks sensational no matter what the theory.

A show like CSI which is shot digitally always looks better on my setup to my age dimmed eyes than does any movie that has been tele-cined with 3:2 pulldown. Movies, even HD movies, are noticeably softer than end-to-end digital productions.

When Comcast replaced my settop box, the picture on SD TV got noticeably better. Previously I only enjoyed HD content because SD just wasn't good enough to blow up to 100+", now can view SD Indie movies and they look fine. I suspect that the picture quality improvement from the settop box upgrade will have been greater than the improvement that comes with a higher resolution projector.

I think the reason the HD content looks better is it has a better (less processed) signal - not anything to do with the X1 itself.
not sure why my previous post wouldn't go through but I watched all my HD on my x1 in 16/9 mode as anything not upconverted and really high def was in this mode...so how at 450p did the x1 have an edge besides maybe with an anomorphic lense? 1280 x 720 is a wide screen format...did you watch everything squished??

Thanks for the input Augie - I think that you're right that Mits might be a bit more honest in their rating - but also they have to differentiate it from the very similar HC3000, so admitting that it's brightness at the expense of contrast (and the 3000 has an on-off iris, too) is probably backward marketing for the HC3000 :)

Basically my problem is I have $950 sitting in my bank account earmarked for a projector and I won't get to use the thing until early Feb - so I have 2 months to sit here and obsess over the nuances (while I watch the prices continue to drop - gotta love cyber shopping!). Projectorreviews leans towards the HD1000u, imho, and I am too.

Basically my problem is I have $950 sitting in my bank account earmarked for a projector and I won't get to use the thing until early Feb - so I have 2 months to sit here and obsess over the nuances (while I watch the prices continue to drop - gotta love cyber shopping!). Projectorreviews leans towards the HD1000u, imho, and I am too.

Be careful, that can also work to a disadvantage.

It is kind of like being a Star Wars fans and reading for 10 years that they were going to come out with a prequel. You read and read. Lean every detail, only to build it up so much in your head that you can't help but be disappointed when you finally see it.

Yeah thanks for the thought, but I'm not too worried since I'm going from XGA business projector watching 4gb DVD or 700mb divx so I'm confident that going from that to 720p HT projector with HD-DVD is going to be HUGE. George Lucas can't take this from me :P

Yeah thanks for the thought, but I'm not too worried since I'm going from XGA business projector watching 4gb DVD or 700mb divx so I'm confident that going from that to 720p HT projector with HD-DVD is going to be HUGE. George Lucas can't take this from me :P

I agree...we seem to be in the same boat (I'm using a X1 w/2950 hours on the bulb). My HD70 should be here on 12/8....just three more days!

Course my luck, I have to go out of town on Sunday for a week!!! So I'll miss Sunday Night Football on it :(

I agree...we seem to be in the same boat (I'm using a X1 w/2950 hours on the bulb). My HD70 should be here on 12/8....just three more days!

Course my luck, I have to go out of town on Sunday for a week!!! So I'll miss Sunday Night Football on it :(
Oh its huge...trust me....my x1 only had 300hrs on the second bulb and it was a huge jump...I love my new setup...just got pirates of the carribean and Pulse....gotta love the blockbuster movie pass....Now if they would only carry HD dvd's or blueray I could justify it...

I agree with augiedoggy...

I went from a ScreenPlay 4800 (~1000 hours) to the HD70 and the difference was amazing. HD content is simply beautiful, SD is comprable to the X1/4800, but for me the 16:9 aspect fits my screen without any overspill (which the 4:3 native 4800 did).

Oh its huge...trust me....my x1 only had 300hrs on the second bulb and it was a huge jump...I love my new setup...just got pirates of the carribean and Pulse....gotta love the blockbuster movie pass....Now if they would only carry HD dvd's or blueray I could justify it...

They do have HD DVD and Blu-Ray, if you rent from online. They have a "Total Access" plan for only $17.99 a month, with 3 movies out at a time. You return the ones you get in the mail to the store, they give you 3 movies in store, then automatically ship the next 3 on your queue. It's awesome.

They do have HD DVD and Blu-Ray, if you rent from online. They have a "Total Access" plan for only $17.99 a month, with 3 movies out at a time. You return the ones you get in the mail to the store, they give you 3 movies in store, then automatically ship the next 3 on your queue. It's awesome.
I have that as well as the old 2 instore plan (expires in january).....good to know thanks

By the way guys, Art said in his review and to quote: "f you have extra budget, definitely consider the Mitsubishi HD1000U, with a very slight edge in sharpness (very slight), and more more significantly, a noticeable jump in brightness in best mode, even though they are about the same brightness in their brightest modes." end quote.

Recommending the Mits for those who has extra bucks to burn (at the time of his review, the Mits cost $400 according to him) seems like the Mits IS an upgrade. Hmmn, Maybe the Mits is indeed better after all.

The Mits higher lumens is best suited for grey screens. So for those people noisy on this matter, there is a solution. And because it has a higher lumens (comparable to the Panny AX100u according to Art), this baby allows you to project on an even bigger screens which the HD70 might not be good at. Think about it...

The only advantage I can see the HD70 has is the 2 year warranty. Is it worth buying a 1 year ext. warranty with the HD1000? Or do most problems pop up in the first year? I know that would add about $99 though.

Unclear on HDCP will the OPPO DV-981HD work with the HD1000U?

The only advantage I can see the HD70 has is the 2 year warranty. Is it worth buying a 1 year ext. warranty with the HD1000? Or do most problems pop up in the first year? I know that would add about $99 though.
You might be right but I would really like to see a Head-to-Head double-blind test done by someone with "no dog in the fight" (Thanks to Alex Soloman for his sig line ;) ) and no axe to grind (None).
And done by someone who can calibrate each machine to its best display. Comparing numbers doesn't always tell the story. Or machines could make all our decisions (we could choose w/o seeing anything but numbers).
And it may well be that the Mits will best the Optoma. But I would trust the tale from a side-by-side more than comparing different test results.


JMO

Either way, it's going to be subjective (and the debate will rage on)...

To one person the HD1000U is going to be "too bright" and to someone else it's great because it gives extra flexibility for ambient lighting. Someone else is going to say the HD70 is a great deal when it's price drops by another $200 & it's the budget king once more(don't get excited, I'm just using that as an example).

Bottom line -- pull the trigger and buy one or the other... you will not be disappointed. I was convinced to buy one of these when I saw an IN72 at CC. I figured both of these were better than that one & I already liked what I saw from the IN72, so it just came down to getting out my credit card number and ordering. You can go back & forth forever, but that won't get a sub-$1K HD PJ in your home...

Either way, it's going to be subjective (and the debate will rage on)...

I know what you mean. There will always be 2 sides. But there has not been a side-by-side done yet. And the more objective (objective is always the objective even if it is hard to reach) the setup the better.

Of course, when one can't use one's own eyes, numbers are usually the guidepost. But still, I would like to read a review of the two seen together and be able to judge a little from the way the test is done, and how it is reported.

Now, of course I don't want the HD70 to be the lesser ( :o ) but I would rather get closer to what is true. And I can see there will be pluses and minuses for both.

Honest. I can see in my HT that what I have is pretty good. :) But I'd rather see the best PJ get the most purchases (votes) because that will influence what comes next.

You might be right but I would really like to see a Head-to-Head double-blind test done by someone with "no dog in the fight" (Thanks to Alex Soloman for his sig line ;) ) and no axe to grind (None).
And done by someone who can calibrate each machine to its best display. Comparing numbers doesn't always tell the story. Or machines could make all our decisions (we could choose w/o seeing anything but numbers).
And it may well be that the Mits will best the Optoma. But I would trust the tale from a side-by-side more than comparing different test results.


JMO

I'd like to see such a test, too. And double-blind is essential. I am reminded of an experiment my daughter did for a High School project some years ago. She managed to recruit 50 people, ostensibly to determine whether people could really determine the sound difference between speaker cables. She had a setup with 16 gauge wire, monster cables, radio shack, etc. What she was really measuring was the role of expectations in perception. She told the groups she was switching cables, and told them which cable she was switching to, but she actually used only the 16 gauge wire. The results were startling! A number of people who were recognized as "experts," writers in the local newspaper on technology issues, owners of HT stores etc., made comments like, "If you can't tell the difference between that cable and the last one, you must be deaf! " Everyone familiar with the brand rated the "monsters" higher than the other cables. Of course, it was all perception as the only cables connected were the 16 gauge wires. The experiment has made me cautious about expert opinion ever since!

BTW--she later repeated with a "blind" test with another group. No one was able to reliably identify one cable brand from another, nor could any "best" sounding cable be identified. I guess the lesson is, if paying more makes you happy, go for it!

Brian

I've been hearing that the Mits is sharper, but I don't know the source of this understanding. I'm also keen to know the contrast differential - does the Mits' brightness equate to worse blacks/shadow detail when optimized for cinema.

Ratings are differ widely (4000:1 on HD70, 2500:1 (which I already have!!!) on the HD10000u.

This question of sharpness is mentioned again and again. My own opinion is that it is unwise to generalize from a sample of 2 units, especially as the review in question does mention that this is a very small difference. In my own experience, I've noticed significant variations in sharpness in identical units from the same manufacturer.

Brian

I'd like to see such a test, too. And double-blind is essential. I am reminded of an experiment my daughter did for a High School project some years ago. She managed to recruit 50 people, ostensibly to determine whether people could really determine the sound difference between speaker cables. She had a setup with 16 gauge wire, monster cables, radio shack, etc. What she was really measuring was the role of expectations in perception. She told the groups she was switching cables, and told them which cable she was switching to, but she actually used only the 16 gauge wire. The results were startling! A number of people who were recognized as "experts," writers in the local newspaper on technology issues, owners of HT stores etc., made comments like, "If you can't tell the difference between that cable and the last one, you must be deaf! " Everyone familiar with the brand rated the "monsters" higher than the other cables. Of course, it was all perception as the only cables connected were the 16 gauge wires. The experiment has made me cautious about expert opinion ever since!

BTW--she later repeated with a "blind" test with another group. No one was able to reliably identify one cable brand from another, nor could any "best" sounding cable be identified. I guess the lesson is, if paying more makes you happy, go for it!

Brian


Nice post Brian. Very informative! Thanks.

BTW: I may refer to this story when needed. It's good.

This question of sharpness is mentioned again and again. My own opinion is that it is unwise to generalize from a sample of 2 units, especially as the review in question does mention that this is a very small difference. In my own experience, I've noticed significant variations in sharpness in identical units from the same manufacturer.

Brian

I see your point about the limitations of a 2-unit (once each) sample, but we're not going to be able to test a dozen of each unit to get a grand master comparison. The outworking of your logic is there is little to be learned by comparison since units of the same make and model differ. I think that logic falls down in short order. I don't put value much on specs (from manufacturers at least) but I think a head-to-head shootout would give us valuable (and currently lacking) sharpness, out-of-the-box color (grayscale) and brightness/contrast info that would be beneficial.

Put another way, I think the similarities between 2 of the same model out weigh the differences between the two models and thus broad conclusions could be drawn. Everyone knows the Z4 was sharper than the ae900, not because dozens of each were beamed head to head but by one-off comparisons. It's an imperfect science, but better than laying down our research on the altar of model variation and not even trying.

I continue to obsess about it because I have no rush to buy - I'm out of the country and I won't get my hands on whichever I but for another 8-9 weeks so I want to collect as much data as possible.

I tend to agree. I printed the rebate a while back and I also saved a pdf of the rebate as well. Based on this rebate, my purchase qualifies. Had it not been for reading about it on the forum I would have never known the rebate was "over".

The requirements are: Purchase a HD1000U between October 1, 2006 and December 31, 2006 from an authorized dealer which I have. Fill out and mail in the form, I will. Include the UPC bar code, will do.

Now, I am not sure if I will actually be getting the rebate. Will I be mad if I don't, not really. I still got a great projector for a great price. I personally have never seen or noticed a rebate retraction like this before and had I not been following the forums I would have never known about it. I am going to mail in the rebate with all the documents and see what happens. ;)
Hey, can you hang onto that pdf of the rebate form for those of us about to buy?

Hey, can you hang onto that pdf of the rebate form for those of us about to buy?

You might want to search the projector on Pricegrabber and it should show the rebate.

just google on hd1000u rebate. The first hit gives you the rebate.

However, look at the terms and conditions:
Offer not valid with any other Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. (MDEA) offer.
...
12. Mitsubishi reserves the right to rescind or change offers at any time without notice.

Has anyone tried the rebate after the price drop?

I just sent my rebate in with my invoice saying 11/20/06 (2 days after the MSRP dropped but still within the deadline of the revised PDF rebate deadline). I hope it goes through (fingers crossed) but I doubt it. I'll complain of course if I don't get it but it may be moot as the last line of the PDF of the rebate form said that they may change the terms or pull the rebate ANYTIME for ANY reason.

I just sent my rebate in with my invoice saying 11/20/06 (2 days after the MSRP dropped but still within the deadline of the revised PDF rebate deadline). I hope it goes through (fingers crossed) but I doubt it. I'll complain of course if I don't get it but it may be moot as the last line of the PDF of the rebate form said that they may change the terms or pull the rebate ANYTIME for ANY reason.

Sent mine in today too. Odds are it won't work, but that is a little messed up since there was no disclosure for those of us who made an impulse purchase on the 20th just so we could get the lamp. Im sure in no time there will be a thread dedicated to those of us who are trying to get our rebate and what methods we should use. Good luck to us all! :rolleyes:

Can anyone give a good recommendation for an online company which gives a good price for these projecters please?

Thanks

spinitar (ask for Lorena) is who I bought from. Drop shipped directly from Mits, received 1 week after order from CA to IN.

I second Huey :) Mine's parachuting from the Mits factory now....

Can anyone give a good recommendation for an online company which gives a good price for these projecters please?

Thanks
Theprojectorplace.com , even cheaper and I had my unopened PJ in two days. Great service! :)

spinitar (ask for Lorena) is who I bought from. Drop shipped directly from Mits, received 1 week after order from CA to IN.

Hey thanks!
being dumb here, but you guys got it directly from Mits?
wow! - how (didn't mean to rhyme) thank
Pete

I second Huey :) Mine's parachuting from the Mits factory now....
Don't you mean the Optoma factory.... :p

Without wanted to speak illegally, Spinitar gave the cheapest price when I called. Cheaper than projector people....

And I got a better price yet from TPP. :)

One feature that Optoma continually excels on (and Infocus too) is support for those of us with anamorphic lens setups (constant image height). I would naturally lean toward the Mits with it's superior overall image quality, however the Optoma has both scaling modes (vertical stretch and horizontal squeeze on all inputs/resolutions). For those of us in that group - the built in scaling means no $1k video processor required. If I were to upgrade from my lowly 480p H31, the HD70 would be a no-brainer.

I confess, despite my 3 months of obsessing over best-value pj, Wet1 got his $15 cheaper than I did. Sub$900 for a quality 720p DLP is outrageously good value. Wet is the champion, PM him from now on to find you deals on whatever you want to buy on the Internet :D

Without wanted to speak illegally, Spinitar gave the cheapest price when I called. Cheaper than projector people....

They seem to really appreciate a phone call. Lorena is pleasant to talk to! ;)
-Mike

Projectorreviews ( http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/mitsubishi/HD1000U/imagequality.asp ) showed that they are similar (if not better on the HD1000U on left due to more natural skin tone and better dark detail--being DLP):


Wow, I totally disagree with the comment of more natural skin tone based on the screen shots. Every scene they display for the HD1000U has a very slight green tint to it. It may not appear this way in real life since all digital cameras add their own charactoristics to a photo, but I didn't think those were very good. Does the HD70 have similar color rendition?

Has anyone tried calibrating grayscale on the HD1000?

NM. Looks like projectorreviews did:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/mitsubishi/HD1000U/performance.asp#calibration

Seems close enough that it wouldn't bother me, but I didn't read if they tested contrast ratio after calibration. Maybe I missed it.

Wow, I totally disagree with the comment of more natural skin tone based on the screen shots. Every scene they display for the HD1000U has a very slight green tint to it. It may not appear this way in real life since all digital cameras add their own charactoristics to a photo, but I didn't think those were very good. Does the HD70 have similar color rendition?

HD70 color is bad. Very green from what I hear.

HD70 color is bad. Very green from what I hear.


too bad you've never seen the machine in action.

the color is fine, as long as you calibrate it . its tough to get to D65, but you can get it close w/ DVD calibration and the greens look great.

Let me state up front I am an HD 70 owner and I am not in any way expert on HT. However, I recently came into some unexpected $$ which I decided to use to upgrade my HT system. But which components to upgrade? In light of the comments about the HD 1000 vs the HD70, I decided that I should make a projector upgrade decision before any other. I was fortunate to be able to go to a retailer who had HT rooms set up and was able to compare the 70 to the 1000. Neither of the units had been calibrated and they were not in the same room, but in adjacent rooms, which made head-to-head comparison impossible. However, the rooms were just a few feet apart, so I could run between them! We used LOTR Return of the King and Apollo 13 HD as the review DVDs in both rooms and a Toshiba HD A2 as the signal source in both; screens were 106 inch Grey Wolf 2s (1.8 gain)

Overall, I'd say that the most appropriate comparative analogy from my perspective is that the HD 70 is very like the plasmas you see at BB, whereas the Mits looks more LCD-like. I know this may seem vague, so let me give more detail.

The Mits is significantly (but not hugely) brighter; I found the contrast between the two units to be very similar, but the 70, to my eyes, had better blacks and showed incrementally more shadow detail. For sharpness, the Mits was sharper, but again, not enormously so; at 5 feet back from the screen, it as not noticeable. Colorwise, the Mits had a pleasing balance--good flesh tones and saturation. Some may find the image "cold" -- a charge often aimed at LCD displays--but it seemed to me accurate. The Optoma had quite a "punch" to it which some people find impressive, others may find it fatiguing; if you loved Kodachrome, you'll adore the 70! It's certainly "warmer" than the Mits in its OOTB mode. The strange thing is that the projector I preferred varied by scene. On some scenes, the Mits was breathtaking, on others, the Optoma impressed. I guess at this price range, you're always making compromises. Of course, calibration could make a significant difference, but I'm assuming very few purchasers will be able to do it and will use the units OOTB.

Both PJs were impressive on HD material; it's truly eye-opening! Their relative qualities did not seem to me to change on HD material.

I was also able to look at a Mits 3000 in another room. I absolutely fell in love with that unit. To my eyes, the difference between the 3000 and the 70/1000 was greater than the difference between the 70 and the 1000. This is a lovely unit and the price was extremely attractive--but it would have taken all my $$$.

My conclusion--you're never going to confuse the image on either the 70 or the 1000 with reality (1080p on a high end Runco unit really can look like looking through a window!), so your choice will depend on whether you like "warm" and punchy vs "colder" and "accurate." The difference between the units was less noticeable with them both running in bright mode, but contrast, etc. suffered on both units when running bright.

I decided not to replace my 70. To me, the difference was not large enough for me to purchase the 1000 over other things that I felt would truly upgrade my HT. I bought an HD A2 and a top-of-the-line Yamaha 7.1 amp to replace my Pioneer. Oh, and several movies, too!

For me, it was the right decision.

Best,

Brian

Let me state up front I am an HD 70 owner and I am not in any way expert on HT. However, I recently came into some unexpected $$ which I decided to use to upgrade my HT system. But which components to upgrade? In light of the comments about the HD 1000 vs the HD70, I decided that I should make a projector upgrade decision before any other. I was fortunate to be able to go to a retailer who had HT rooms set up and was able to compare the 70 to the 1000. Neither of the units had been calibrated and they were not in the same room, but in adjacent rooms, which made head-to-head comparison impossible. However, the rooms were just a few feet apart, so I could run between them! We used LOTR Return of the King and Apollo 13 HD as the review DVDs in both rooms and a Toshiba HD A2 as the signal source in both; screens were 106 inch Grey Wolf 2s (1.8 gain)

Overall, I'd say that the most appropriate comparative analogy from my perspective is that the HD 70 is very like the plasmas you see at BB, whereas the Mits looks more LCD-like. I know this may seem vague, so let me give more detail.

The Mits is significantly (but not hugely) brighter; I found the contrast between the two units to be very similar, but the 70, to my eyes, had better blacks and showed incrementally more shadow detail. For sharpness, the Mits was sharper, but again, not enormously so; at 5 feet back from the screen, it as not noticeable. Colorwise, the Mits had a pleasing balance--good flesh tones and saturation. Some may find the image "cold" -- a charge often aimed at LCD displays--but it seemed to me accurate. The Optoma had quite a "punch" to it which some people find impressive, others may find it fatiguing; if you loved Kodachrome, you'll adore the 70! It's certainly "warmer" than the Mits in its OOTB mode. The strange thing is that the projector I preferred varied by scene. On some scenes, the Mits was breathtaking, on others, the Optoma impressed. I guess at this price range, you're always making compromises. Of course, calibration could make a significant difference, but I'm assuming very few purchasers will be able to do it and will use the units OOTB.

Both PJs were impressive on HD material; it's truly eye-opening! Their relative qualities did not seem to me to change on HD material.

I was also able to look at a Mits 3000 in another room. I absolutely fell in love with that unit. To my eyes, the difference between the 3000 and the 70/1000 was greater than the difference between the 70 and the 1000. This is a lovely unit and the price was extremely attractive--but it would have taken all my $$$.

My conclusion--you're never going to confuse the image on either the 70 or the 1000 with reality (1080p on a high end Runco unit really can look like looking through a window!), so your choice will depend on whether you like "warm" and punchy vs "colder" and "accurate." The difference between the units was less noticeable with them both running in bright mode, but contrast, etc. suffered on both units when running bright.
I decided not to replace my 70. To me, the difference was not large enough for me to purchase the 1000 over other things that I felt would truly upgrade my HT. I bought an HD A2 and a top-of-the-line Yamaha 7.1 amp to replace my Pioneer. Oh, and several movies, too!

For me, it was the right decision.

Best,

Brian


this is exactly how i felt when i finally got to view the Mits (last week).

clearly the Mits has advantages, but so the HD70. the HD70 is warmer and more plasma-like while the Mits is more color-accurate and "cold"/"digital". i think overrall the Mits has a slight edge in most PQ areas, but from what Ive seen with MY EYES and NOT READ ON A MESSAGE BOARD, the two PJs are eerily similar in PQ (almost as though they were manufactured by the same place...huh...).

Brian, best review I've seen. thanks for bringing objectivity back.

also, Brian actually has a decent setup to review the units, not a brown-yellow wall with no calibration and no PJ experience like some others who have posted reviews.

Does the HD70 hold up well when veiwing HD Sprots off the TV? I ask this in regards to pixilation during fast action scenes?

too bad you've never seen the machine in action.

the color is fine, as long as you calibrate it . its tough to get to D65, but you can get it close w/ DVD calibration and the greens look great.

It's been discussed numerous times, but if you are not a videophile, then yes, you can get the picture looking fine to you, but if you actually know what D65 looks like, or have a colorimeter, after calibrating, the contrast ratio sucks.

I'm just putting in my .02 for the more advanced projector people. Don't take it personally.

It's been discussed numerous times, but if you are not a videophile, then yes, you can get the picture looking fine to you, but if you actually know what D65 looks like, or have a colorimeter, after calibrating, the contrast ratio sucks.

I'm just putting in my .02 for the more advanced projector people. Don't take it personally.

the CR is gonna suck on most PJs with a clear segment when you calibrate to D65, including the Mits. but with the Mits, you get a lot more lumens when you get to D65.

plus, 99% of people who are buying the cheapest 720p PJ they can find (which is what the HD70 and HD1000U are) are not gonna care about D65.

How many of you drive either the 1000 or 70 with an HTPC? I'm wondering what the difference is in this aspect.

plus, 99% of people who are buying the cheapest 720p PJ they can find (which is what the HD70 and HD1000U are) are not gonna care about D65.

What does D65 refer to?

Thanks!

You (and I both) personify the quote from bubbastyle - we low-end clientele don't worry about D65 color accuracy, but just for fun:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D65

Thanks & I don't think it matters to me....maybe. Being an artist I do notice accurate color renditions, but if the difference between the color of a budget model versus a high-end model is small I may not care. I need to understand how much of a difference there is. Is the difference between them like red showing up accurate versus an orange-red?

Wow, I totally disagree with the comment of more natural skin tone based on the screen shots. Every scene they display for the HD1000U has a very slight green tint to it. It may not appear this way in real life since all digital cameras add their own charactoristics to a photo, but I didn't think those were very good. Does the HD70 have similar color rendition?


Did you look at the gandalph pictures? The HD70 has way more green push.

Mits

http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Mitsubishi_HD1000U_LOTR_GandalfLarge.jpg

Optoma
http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Optoma_HD70_LOTR_Gandalf1Large.jpg

Shadow Detail Comparison

HD70
http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Optoma_HD70_starship_explosion.jpg

Mits
http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Mitsubishi_HD1000U_Starship_explosion.jpg

the CR is gonna suck on most PJs with a clear segment when you calibrate to D65, including the Mits. but with the Mits, you get a lot more lumens when you get to D65.

plus, 99% of people who are buying the cheapest 720p PJ they can find (which is what the HD70 and HD1000U are) are not gonna care about D65.

Turning off brilliant clor helps a lot on the Mits. No comparison of contrast can be made with it on.

[QUOTE=gwlaw99]Did you look at the gandalph pictures? The HD70 has way more green push./QUOTE]

I'd be very wary indeed using these pix out of context. They were never meant to be used to compare different projectors; the variation may well be due to the camera or its settings. I have not seen this green push on my own HD 70, and I did not see it on the one at the dealers where I reviewed it. If anything, the 70 seems to have more of a red push, but it is quite subtle--much less intense than the green in Art's pic of Gandalf.

Best,

Brian

Did you look at the gandalph pictures? The HD70 has way more green push.

[/url]


im gonna assume you didnt read Art's specific post saying that it was his CAMERA that was responsible for that green push. notice how its only on one screenshot, hmm...

that's why screenies dont mean anything.

If it's his camera, then it would affect all screenshots equally. The phantom of the opera picture also looks more green and the arch behind him shows a lot less shadow detail.

If it's his camera, then it would affect all screenshots equally. The phantom of the opera picture also looks more green and the arch behind him shows a lot less shadow detail.

maybe he found the problem with the camera and...fixed it?

besides the Gandalf screeny, i think the screenshots show two very similar PJs with good colors on each.

screenshots, once again, SHOULD NOT be used to say positive/negative things about PJs. they are fun to look at, but they dont tell you anything about real life performance

The green bias is fairly evident in the audiohaulics review as well. Look at the snow in the top two pictures.

i realize screenshots should not be the end of the discussion, but it confirms krasmuzik's conclusions on the HD70's tweakers thread and he is professional calibrator.

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/Optoma-HD70-projector4.php

I think it's personal preference. A lot of people like certain color biases and find "accurate" colors to be cold. Kodachrome photography colors wouldn't have become widely popular unless people liked them.

I think the HD70 is a great projector for the money.