HiDef DVD News VII - News Only : AND WE MEAN IT: NEWS ONLY [Text View]

nataraj

11-18-06, 03:30 PM

This is a continuation of HiDef DVD News VI - A New Beginning??? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8505061&&#post8505061)

12/23 Thread rule change: Please limit posts in this thread to a link to a news article and/or a partial quote with an optional line or two describing the article.

Take discussion of any article to a new thread, but you're welcome to link to the discussion thread. Quote the news post, type "discussion here:" and the thread link.

NOTE: Posting of sales figures is strongly discouraged and should go to the new BD Sales Figures Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798272) or the new HD-DVD Sales Figures Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=796036)

This affects posts beginning with 12/23/06

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Now that both PS3 and 360 add-ons have been released, time for a new thread.

Edit :

Some related review.

Burning Questions: PS3--The Blu-ray Movie Experience (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,127892-c,dvddrivesmedia/article.html)

The short answer is yes. In my initial hands-on tests, the PS3's Blu-ray Disc playback was very good--even better than I'd anticipated.

David Susilo

11-18-06, 03:50 PM

regarding the lack of HDMI on XBox add-on. From my POV, it's a non issue. By the time ICT is switched on (approx 2010 or later), you're already buying new players anyway. At that time, qood quality standalone HD-DVD players will cost no more than $200.

It may not be an issue for you but some people do hang on to their players for a long time.

Other than exceptions here and there, I honestly doubt that a player bought in 2006 will still be in operation when it reached 2010.

Four years is a very long time. None of my DVD players (more than a dozen) except for Panasonic DVD-A300 lasted longer than 3 years. None of my 5 LD players (except for Pioneer CLD-604) lasted longer than 3 years too.

Kosty

11-18-06, 03:51 PM

No super new news, but the Top 10 Amazon sales rankings for Blu-ray discs have been consistently up over the last 30 days.

The combined HD DVD sales ranking has been consistent as is still much higher than the Blu-ray sales rankings, but the Blu-ray trend has been definately upward.

Too early to see any PS3 impact

3rd chart down
http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm

markrubin

11-18-06, 03:56 PM

made a sticky

Thanks nataraj :)

Esox50

11-18-06, 03:58 PM

I just returned from Tweeter, the guy told me that they've been selling the Panasonic players as fast as they can get them in. So-so on the Samsung though. He said he hasn't sold an HD DVD player since late summer. Not sure how true this is, but it doesn't matter either way. Either they are selling at the rate at which he says, OR the retailers are pushing BD at the expense of HD DVD.

I just get the sense that BD is going to win this thing based on CE support, Studio support, and retailer support, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Part of me wants one format, but the other part of me says that the "best product" should win, not the one the industry wants to win.

mikemorel

11-18-06, 04:06 PM

Sony NEC Optiarc: Blue-ray Disc drive prices to drop 50% by 2008 (http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20061116PR208.html)

By 2008, prices for Blu-ray Disc (BD) drives will drop 50% from current levels amid aggressive development by various related brands and makers, according to Shuji Minami, general manager, product business group of Sony NEC Optiarc. Minami also said the maker is not ruling out seeking new partners in Taiwan or placing more orders with existing Taiwan-based partners.

Demand for BD drives are expected to be driven by full high-definition (HD) demand for 19-inch-and-above LCD monitors and the new Vista operating system (OS) from Microsoft in 2007, Minami indicated.

In addition, adoption rates for BD technology will be further driven by the Olympic Games in Beijing in 2008, when demand for LCD and PDP (plasma display panel) TVs, along with high-density storage devices, will drive the market, Minami added.Now I know this is supposed to be big news from the BD side, but by 2008, if BD didn't reduce drive costs by AT LEAST 50% then they will be crushed by Chinese made HD DVD drives.

mikemorel

11-18-06, 04:11 PM

Part of me wants one format, but the other part of me says that the "best product" should win, not the one the industry wants to win.So Which one is which? :) Pardon me, I've been sniffing cleaning products all afternoon, and I can't reason very well...

WayneL

11-18-06, 04:30 PM

Since it will be an inevitable win by BD in the eyes of some, I thought it interesting to look back to Churchill and what he said of another war:

"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.''

"When I warned them that Britain would fight on alone, whatever they did, their Generals told their Prime Minister and his divided cabinet that in three weeks, England would have her neck wrung like a chicken - Some chicken! Some neck!"

"This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

That war went on another 3-4 years after he said these. BTW, we know it wasn't the "superior" side that won that war. Everyone take a deep breath!

dialog_gvf

11-18-06, 04:59 PM

Sony NEC Optiarc: Blue-ray Disc drive prices to drop 50% by 2008 (http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20061116PR208.html)

Now I know this is supposed to be big news from the BD side, but by 2008, if BD didn't reduce drive costs by AT LEAST 50% then they will be crushed by Chinese made HD DVD drives.

I take the article to be refering to PC drives. Which are burners for BD. This seems to be somewhat on track with Pioneer's comments. The SRP on the Sony is $750 and streets for $540 or less. Drop that in half.

Is there an announced HD DVD burner? I can't see ROM drives being "crush" level.

Gary

b2bonez

11-18-06, 05:10 PM

Sony NEC Optiarc: Blue-ray Disc drive prices to drop 50% by 2008 (http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20061116PR208.html)

Now I know this is supposed to be big news from the BD side, but by 2008, if BD didn't reduce drive costs by AT LEAST 50% then they will be crushed by Chinese made HD DVD drives.

Well that assumes the Chinese will have enough "in country technology" to make blue lasers at a cost well below the suppliers of BD drives.

b2b

turansformer

11-18-06, 05:14 PM

amillians

11-18-06, 05:16 PM

Through 11/3/06, the CEA is reporting that digital TVs have outsold analog TVs by a factor of 2:1. Pretty cool. Digital's 5 week moving average in 2006 is up some 430% over the same 5 week moving average in 2005.

SCEA is re-evaluating their numbers...the 400K PS3s noted for launch just this September for the NA debut has now been reinvisioned as only a "goal that we were shooting for" and the year end 1000K target is now also a target they are "shooting for"...this is Hirai talking, not some flacky. It will be a few days before they release actual figures--at this stage, they aren't 100% sure they even sold out on launch day.

The production to date has been 20% $499 and 80% $599. Shipping by boat takes 12-14 days, so they plan to air units to NA for the foreseeable future. They plan to do daily flights/shipments for the foreseeable future. Hirai specifically said they will *not* try to build up inventory, but rather ship daily direct to retail...they don't want retail to go dry.

mikemorel

11-18-06, 05:17 PM

I take the article to be refering to PC drives. Which are burners for BD. This seems to be somewhat on track with Pioneer's comments. The SRP on the Sony is $750 and streets for $540 or less. Drop that in half.

Is there an announced HD DVD burner? I can't see ROM drives being "crush" level.So it means nothing..."Sony NEC Optiarc: Blue-ray Disc drive prices to drop 50% by 2008" is hereby dumped...

b2bonez

11-18-06, 05:28 PM

amillians

11-18-06, 05:34 PM

D'oh...good point, b2b. I forgot that pesky regulation!

AnthonyP

11-18-06, 05:39 PM

B2B: maybe in the US, but here you can

b2bonez

11-18-06, 05:56 PM

B2B: maybe in the US, but here you can

Does Canada even have a date for analog TV shutdown ?

b2b

g55555sim

11-18-06, 06:24 PM

Well that assumes the Chinese will have enough "in country technology" to make blue lasers at a cost well below the suppliers of BD drives.

b2b

and please feel free to continue to undermine the Chinese's technological advancement :rolleyes:

nataraj

11-18-06, 06:54 PM

Too early to see any PS3 impact

Oh ... I was going to say a day after PS3 release BD numbers actually went south :D

Movies in Top 10,000

11/16/2006 : 35
11/17/2006 : 33
11/18/2006 : 24

The trend is unmistakeable. BTW, for HD DVD ...

11/16/2006 : 98
11/17/2006 : 93
11/18/2006 : 95

nataraj

11-18-06, 06:57 PM

made a sticky

Thanks nataraj :)

Great. Thanks.

DTV TiVo Dealer

11-18-06, 06:58 PM

Well that assumes the Chinese will have enough "in country technology" to make blue lasers at a cost well below the suppliers of BD drives.

b2b

Main Land China has all the technology they need to produce almost any advanced CE technology device they want to and they already do so.

Whatever they may not have is easily gotten.

-Robert

2Channel

11-18-06, 07:24 PM

and please feel free to continue to undermine the Chinese's technological advancement :rolleyes:

I think b2b's point is that the most difficult component to make in all of these devices is the blue lasers. While there is a lot of work going on in this area, it doesn't seem that anyone has truly cracked the code on making these inexpensively at high volume. From what I've read the current approach is kind of a brute force attack at the problem. Make lots of material and some of it will be usable....throw away the rest.

The Chinese could get into the business of trying to make blue lasers as well, but there would be very heavy capital investment involved and the ramp up time to bring facilities on line would be significant. I think it's more likely that they'd look to source these components from somewhere else, at least until someone has figured out how to do this with better yields.

2Channel

11-18-06, 07:27 PM

reposting this one as it came in right at the tail end of the last thread........

Quote:
Originally Posted by sstephen
Blue laser shortfall cools PS3 debut

This isn't really new, we've all known it for some time, but you may want to have a look

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/...cleID=194400848

All HD-DVD and Blu-ray products except Sony's currently employ Nichia's laser diodes.

There were some posts previously on this thread saying that Nichia is responsible for 80% of the global blue laser production and that 100% of that was committed to Sony for PS3. This EE Times article seems to contradict that. I’m still not sure how much of the global supply comes from Nichia and how much of that is committed to manufacturers of HD-DVD products. But this is interesting information all the same.

onanie

11-18-06, 07:28 PM

and please feel free to continue to undermine the Chinese's technological advancement :rolleyes:

For pioneers of cutting edge technology, I think it stands true that it isn't a term usually synonymous with Chinese technology. As large scale manufacturers of existing technology, there is no doubt, as long as they have access to it. I think it is an aspect that the Japanese companies still have control over, both technologically and legally.

b2bonez

11-18-06, 07:37 PM

Main Land China has all the technology they need to produce almost any advanced CE technology device they want to and they already do so.

Whatever they may not have is easily gotten.

-Robert

I'm sure that will be true for blue laser production someday. That was the point of my comment, "someday" is not "today".

b2b

g55555sim

11-18-06, 08:12 PM

onanie

11-18-06, 08:20 PM

^ someday? sound familiar! A while ago, we said "someday" BD will come out with BD50 movies", "someday, BD PQ will be at par as HD DVD", "someday, the BD players will do BD Live", "someday, BD will sell more players than HD DVD". Come to think of it, the term "someday" is not "bad" at all. :p .. come on now, dont hate me please :)

There is a difference. When that "someday" arrives for cheap Chinese blue diodes, why should it be exclusive to HD DVD?

Like you said, what is wrong with "someday"? I know, only when a HD DVD supporter talks about BD50.

2Channel

11-18-06, 08:27 PM

^ someday? sound familiar! A while ago, we said "someday" BD will come out with BD50 movies", "someday, BD PQ will be at par as HD DVD", "someday, the BD players will do BD Live", "someday, BD will sell more players than HD DVD". Come to think of it, the term "someday" is not "bad" at all. :p .. come on now, dont hate me please :)

BD-50 - Check

BD PQ - Still hit or miss, Talladega Nights got 2 out of 5 for PQ from highdefdigest and this is the PS3 showcase disc. Isn't BD supposed to be better?

BD Live - Which player has BD Live?

More BD players than HD-DVD - Check. Let's see if they get used.

WayneL

11-18-06, 08:51 PM

Does Canada even have a date for analog TV shutdown ?
Used to follow this sort of thing. Here's what I find in a letter from the spectrum regulator to the broadcast ("cultural": OMG, stay away from this one) regulator. Looks like a bureaucratic battle between them where the former is looking at the US and says, OK......

"Given the potential for alternative use of spectrum to be freed-up by the transition to DTV, Industry Canada is of the view, from the perspective of efficient and effective management of the radio spectrum, that serious consideration should be given to specifying a date for the shut down of OTA analogue television. Such a date could be closely aligned within a North American market with a view to ensuring that Canadians will be able to receive Canadian OTA DTV within a North American market time frame. This could also contribute to Canadian broadcasters maintaining their viewership, particularly in markets along the Canada/US border where American television stations are rapidly moving to DTV."

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/en/sf08702e.html

If anyone can update, FWIW

b2bonez

11-18-06, 09:21 PM

Only the studios releasing in both formats use VC-1 on BD (and only on some titles), the VC-1 encoded BD titles tend to score well for PQ. Talladega Nights, like all Sony pictures releases is encoded with Mpeg2. While some titles on Mpeg2 have managed to come close to VC-1, this wasn't one of them. Sony pictures seems to be stubornly sticking with Mpeg2.

Is there a player out there that supports BD Live?

Well here is the complete quote on the PQ.
It doesn't seem like there is anything wrong with the source material, which looks as clean as a whistle. Grain is almost absent from the transfer, with solid blacks and consistent color saturation. I also noticed no chroma noise, compression artifacts or posterization. The film's color palette is quite bright and lively, with sun-drenched exteriors and a fine use of primary colors, in particular blues, reds and yellows. Fleshtones appear accurate, if a bit waxy.

Unfortunately, what 'Talladega Nights' suffers from is really awful contrast. I have no idea why it looks this way (and I didn't see it theatrically), but it is as if the entire image has been completely flattened out and darkened. There is zero "pop" to the presentation -- it's like watching the video through a pair of polarized sunglasses. As a result, depth and detail appear surreal and washed out, and colors are nowhere near as vibrant as they could have been. There is certainly none of the three-dimensionality I'm accustomed to with great high-def. It's hard to describe until you see it, but it is telling that the deleted scenes on this disc, which are also presented in full 1080p and 2.35:1 widescreen, look much better. It is doubly a shame, as Sony is bundling 'Talladega Nights' with the launch of its PlayStation 3 next-gen game console -- I can only hope there is just something wrong with my eyes and I'm the only one who finds 'Talladega Nights' this unwatchable.

No mention of MPEG2 problems, but one of "contrast". Plus the reviewer didn't see the theatrical presentation for comparison. It could be that it was just filmed that way.

b2b

Rob Zuber

11-18-06, 09:31 PM

BD PQ - Still hit or miss, Talladega Nights got 2 out of 5 for PQ from highdefdigest...It's garbage posts like this that have dragged these forums down into the toilet. Why didn't you mention that the movie got a 7 out of 10 from Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity? Why didn't you mention any of these recent HD-DVD releases that received a 4 out of 10 from at least one review site?

Army of Darkness
Waist Deep
Spartacus

David Susilo

11-18-06, 09:34 PM

he mentioned Talladega Nights because this is supposed to be the movie used to demo / showcase BD.

Remember way back when you buy HiFi VHS deck and they come with demo video? They were great to showcase what the movie player can do. Not the case with Talladega Nights. Even if it's 7/10, it's not a showcase movie. Sony should bundle eye and ear candy that will easily receive 9/10 to showcase BD playback.

onanie

11-18-06, 10:53 PM

Richard Paul

11-18-06, 11:01 PM

regarding the lack of HDMI on XBox add-on. From my POV, it's a non issue. By the time ICT is switched on (approx 2010 or later), you're already buying new players anyway.Maybe, but that is based on the idea that ICT won't be used until at least 2010. I certainly wouldn't mind if that is true but at the moment that is just a rumor.

Other than exceptions here and there, I honestly doubt that a player bought in 2006 will still be in operation when it reached 2010.True, especially if the player is an external drive for a game console.

BTW, we know it wasn't the "superior" side that won that war. Everyone take a deep breath!Not to put a damper on this comparison but the combined forces of the US, England, and a dozen plus other countries certainly were stronger than the Axis powers. It just took them a while to build up their armed forces for an all out war. Also I think you are taking the analogy of a format war a bit to literally.

While some titles on Mpeg2 have managed to come close to VC-1, this wasn't one of them.Actually there are several MPEG-2 discs that look better than several VC-1 discs. Just pointing out that there is no need for exaggeration and personally I do think that Sony should switch to an advanced video codec.

2Channel

11-19-06, 12:30 AM

It's garbage posts like this that have dragged these forums down into the toilet. Why didn't you mention that the movie got a 7 out of 10 from Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity? Why didn't you mention any of these recent HD-DVD releases that received a 4 out of 10 from at least one review site?

Army of Darkness
Waist Deep
Spartacus

Well, this got ugly fast. Let me try and pull this back out of the toilet. ;)

BD is my God I shall have no others (chorus). Is it working? :rolleyes:

David already answered the question "Why Talladega Nights?" But let me hit it home again. This is the disc that 500,000 families will be getting with their PS3. Shouldn't Sony have gotten it right? How was their execution compared to Microsoft bundling King Kong on HD-DVD with the Add-on?

Talladega Nights 2006 2 out of 5 from Highdef 3.5 out of 5 from Secrets

b2b already provided a clip from this one...but here's the full review
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/talladeganights.html

here's what Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_4/mrg-140-november-2006-part-4.html#Talladega%20Nights:%20The%20Ballad%20of%20Ricky%20Bob by

This is the third BD-50 release from Columbia, and it reminded me a lot of Click!. The image looks good for the most part, but I couldn't help but feel like something was missing in both dimension and detail.

The image frequently looks a bit flat and veiled. Colors are great and contrast is solid, but the three dimensionality of better high definition transfers is just not there. Since I didn't see this one in the theaters, it is hard to say what is intentional or not, but overall I thought a film like this would look a bit better.

The audio was also a bit of a letdown. Sony's uncompressed audio tracks have been stellar for the most part, and since this film deals with NASCAR, I was expecting some impressive sound design and dynamic range, at least in the racing scenes. While there is plenty of surround usage, dynamic range isn't really that great, and the sound design stays a bit toned down. I guess I should have expected that from a comedy though.

Let's go through your list of HD-DVD stinkers

Army of Darkness 1992 2.5 out of 5
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/armyofdarkness.html

Waist Deep 2006 4 out of 5 for PQ
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/waistdeep.html

Spartacus 1960 2.5 out of 5 for PQ
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/spartacus.html

We could go on like this forever, pitting one reviewer against another, one movie against another. I'll let the folks on this thread judge the titles you chose as examples of bad HD-DVD. I'm sure they can also figure out for themselves if VC-1 is a better codec than Mpeg2 which was standardized in 1994.

The fact remains, Sony continues to act like a company that has nothing to prove. I posted on this thread before the PS3 reviews came out that I hoped that Sony would do better with the PS3. I hoped that the PS3 would deliver great BD PQ and I hoped that Talladega Nights would be a great showcase for BD. The PS3 hardware designers did a good job, but Sony dropped the ball again with the bundled movie. They continue to behave like a company that does not show interest in competing for my business. My hope, therefore, is that HD-DVD continues to cause Sony pain so that they change their behavior and work harder to deliver better products to the paying customer.

What I don't get is all the folks who continue to make excuses for Sony.

Richard Paul

11-19-06, 02:47 AM

What I don't get is all the folks who continue to make excuses for Sony.Well you certainly shouldn't be surprised by that when you make exaggerations like saying that no MPEG-2 disc has yet to equal a VC-1 disc. Statements like that just weaken your more legitimate arguments. To show that I know that Sony has made mistakes and that I am fair about this I will make a short list of them:

Using MPEG-2 for all their Blu-ray movies was not a good idea and many of their early movies suffered from over compression because of that. Overall there is little reason for them to stick with MPEG-2 and even when their movies aren't negatively affected by using it they will get bashed because they continue to use it.
They should have released a subsidized stand alone Blu-ray player. Once Sony knew that Toshiba was going to do that they should have done that as well since it would help disprove the myth that Blu-ray players cost twice as much to make as HD DVD players. A myth that continues to be believed even today.
They should not have overestimated the number of PS3 consoles they would be able to make this year. It gave their opponents an opportunity to attack them and made them look bad.
They should have included an IR receiver on the PS3 and released a remote for it on day one. Honestly releasing a Bluetooth remote a month after the PS3 makes it look like Sony forgot one of the uses that they were hoping for from PS3 owners. That being the playback of Blu-ray movies.
Sony should have released a knock out movie or two this winter since a surprise announcement of Spiderman would have gotten a lot of publicity. Instead it was Fox who got closest to doing that with X-Men 3.

UxiSXRD

11-19-06, 04:52 AM

I'm sure someone will do their own thread on it, but I wanted to post this while it's still relatively fresh in my mind.

We just did a demo here in So Cal (thanks Thomas!) with both the Panny BD and Tosh HD-A1 though the Qualia 004 front projector on a 133 inch screen. Whole system just recently calibrated. IIRC, there's a Pioneer Elite in his awesome home theater.

Primary titles for comparison were MI:3, Aeon Flux, and Corpse Bride. We also did Black Hawk Down for BD and SD Gladiator on both to compare upconversion.

IMO, MI3 and Aeon Flux were indistinguishable and the Panny BD got the slight edge on Corpse Bride with slightly better color saturation and "pop." We went back and forth through the same scenes on each (notably the bridge scene, roof jump, and Vatican intro for MI3), though the HD-A1 had the annoying habit of having to start from the beginning due to it losing the HDMI handshake while the BD would pick up where it left off.

It was also a wash on upconversion for the Panny (primary comparison with the DVD of Gladiator), with it's superior speed and response giving it the convenience nod.

Myself, I can't wait for the PS3 to give my XBR1 a taste of Blu-ray. As soon as I can get a PS3 without waiting in line or paying ebay rapage, I'll get one (most likely early next year, I'm thinking). I've been tossing back and forth near daily on getting an XA1. I don't like the ergonomics of the the separate HD-DVD dongle but already have the 360... My unused analog inputs on my receiver are begging for the XA1, though. This demo today makes me all the more sure I could tolerate the quirks of the XA1... for the right price. The HD-DVD add-on also looks quite attractive, though I'm willing to pay the premium for 5.1 True HD....

nilsp

11-19-06, 05:42 AM

This is the disc that 500,000 families will be getting with their PS3. Shouldn't Sony have gotten it right? How was their execution compared to Microsoft bundling King Kong on HD-DVD with the Add-on?
Horrible. Unbelievable. Of course, we might be a bit more picky than J6P, I don't know. Wasn't it IGN that gave the bundled movie a pretty good score, something like "opened my eyes for HD content"? (Can't find the link now..) That nonwithstanding, the choice of a) which movie and b) how the encoding was done is a mystery to me. Espescially since they KNOW what is going on over in the HD DVD camp.

The fact remains, Sony continues to act like a company that has nothing to prove. I posted on this thread before the PS3 reviews came out that I hoped that Sony would do better with the PS3. I hoped that the PS3 would deliver great BD PQ and I hoped that Talladega Nights would be a great showcase for BD. The PS3 hardware designers did a good job, but Sony dropped the ball again with the bundled movie. They continue to behave like a company that does not show interest in competing for my business. My hope, therefore, is that HD-DVD continues to cause Sony pain so that they change their behavior and work harder to deliver better products to the paying customer.
Agreed. They seem to assume too much, to a point where it might come back and seriously bite them. Their window of opportunity for winning people over to their side is rapidly closing, and Sony seem to actively trying to close that window themselves! Hello? Luckily there are more studios than Sony and recent releases from them seem to indicate that we're finally on the right track.

I fully expect some Blu-ray exclusive studios to also join the HD DVD camp in the fairly short term, just by looking at the sales numbers. The only thing left for them is looking at what attach rates we'll see on the PS3. If low, HD DVD releases are coming. (Not Sony owned or Fox.)

What I don't get is all the folks who continue to make excuses for Sony.
I am and avid PS supporter, got the PS1, PS2, PSP and waiting to get the PS3, and I think Blu-ray is the better HD "solution". I'm not making excuses for Sony, in fact, I am continually amazed how they time after time are able to mess things up. But I can't make my decision on which side to support on the execution of the launch or the attitude of one of the BD studios. I have to look at the technical solution, its long term viabiliity, overall studio support and last, but not least, which HD format the PS3 supports, since I'll be getting that anyways...

onanie

11-19-06, 06:41 AM

What I don't get is all the folks who continue to make excuses for Sony.

Why, there isn't a need to. Blu-ray had already surpassed HD DVD in the most fundamental way (in capacity and bandwidth) in its conception, not to mention the subsequent major industry support in both hardware and software.

What I encounter here is relentless non-sensicle attacks against a format like there's no tomorrow, but I find entertainment in responding to them.

mikemorel

11-19-06, 07:53 AM

Why, there isn't a need to. Blu-ray had already surpassed HD DVD in the most fundamental way (in capacity and bandwidth) in its conception, not to mention the subsequent major industry support in both hardware and software.

What I encounter here is relentless non-sensicle attacks against a format like there's no tomorrow, but I find entertainment in responding to them.Hmmm. Non-"Sensicle"....Non "Sensicle". Is it really "non-sensicle"? Let's do a cursory search...Go for the easy pickings...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=751008

Thanks Sony for letting us know just how crappy BD-50 can be!

David Susilo

11-19-06, 09:08 AM

Forget that BD also has other great releases, on MPEG2 even. How convenient.

How convenient that you just missed my entire first sentence and twist my post to your liking. :rolleyes:

NEVER I mentioned that BD doesn't have great release. The POINT IS that Sony is being stupid by bundling PS3 with crap quality movie that is NOT ear and eye candy. Is it clear enough for you now?

Sigh. Twist and twist and twist and twist. Typical BD apologists.

mikemorel

11-19-06, 10:11 AM

From Variety:

It's a whole new game for H'wood (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117954177.html?categoryid=20&cs=1)

PS3 plays Blu-ray DVDs, and the success of the machine may well determine the fate of the format. Simply put, if the 400,00 units Sony is shipping to North America don't convert enough people to Blu-ray, it may prompt a lot of studios to shift their allegiances to Toshiba's rival HD-DVD.If Variety reflects Hollywood, then Hollywood is looking at the PS3 very closely...

smithfarmer

11-19-06, 11:04 AM

What I don't get is all the folks who continue to make excuses for Sony.
Amen.

Prime example #1:

Why, there isn't a need to. Blu-ray had already surpassed HD DVD in the most fundamental way (in capacity and bandwidth) in its conception, not to mention the subsequent major industry support in both hardware and software.

What I encounter here is relentless non-sensicle attacks against a format like there's no tomorrow, but I find entertainment in responding to them.

AnthonyP

11-19-06, 01:16 PM

Does Canada even have a date for analog TV shutdown ?

B2B:I don't know, but don't think it does. I don't know of any good Canadian boards and don't expect to see news like that here.

AnthonyP

11-19-06, 01:23 PM

he mentioned Talladega Nights because this is supposed to be the movie used to demo / showcase BD.

David.
1) how does it compare to the DVD?
2) there is the 50GB that can be bought.

AnthonyP

11-19-06, 01:38 PM

David already answered the question "Why Talladega Nights?" But let me hit it home again. This is the disc that 500,000 families will be getting with their PS3. Shouldn't Sony have gotten it right? How was their execution compared to Microsoft bundling King Kong on HD-DVD with the Add-on?

2CH: the difference is that it will go to people that think DVD is good enough. They will look at it, see it is MUCH better and re-evaluate if they should be looking for something better. The add-on is aimed at someone that wanted to spend 200$ and that wanted HD, he might have bought it because he could not afford more or because he says he wants HD but is not intelligent enough to realize that he can't get HD from most studios and if he wanted that he would need to go BD

For the add-on the movie is there to help convince people to buy the add-on instead of the Toshiba. So it needs to be a great movie. For the PS3 it is there to show the PS3 owner that BD movies are better then DVD, and that it does. It is there to convince the PS3 owner to spend money on BD movies, if they included the 50GB version no one will need to buy it.

b2bonez

11-19-06, 01:51 PM

From Variety:

It's a whole new game for H'wood (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117954177.html?categoryid=20&cs=1)

If Variety reflects Hollywood, then Hollywood is looking at the PS3 very closely...

The real situation is... if people don't respond to the BD movie playback in PS3, it's that HD on shiny discs isn't a real interesting thing compaired to DVD and that problem is squarely one of content, not format.

If all that Hollywood is going offer with HD is old movies at twice the price of DVD that require new players at five times the price of DVD, then what did they think was going to happen ??

b2b

mikemorel

11-19-06, 02:01 PM

The real situation is... if people don't respond to the BD movie playback in PS3, it's that HD on shiny discs isn't a real interesting thing compaired to DVD and that problem is squarely one of content, not format.Well, thank all that is holy that you know what the real situation is! :)

If all that Hollywood is going offer with HD is old movies at twice the price of DVD that require new players at five times the price of DVD, then what did they think was going to happen ??Hollywood is running out of patience with BD, the PS3, and attach rates...How many PS3s were sold at launch?

HD-DVD is the only logical way to resell all that crap they want to resell. Low mastering costs, low replication costs, until the next best thing (downloading) comes along...:D

nilsp

11-19-06, 02:15 PM

How many PS3s were sold at launch?
All of them? :D

HD-DVD is the only logical way to resell all that crap they want to resell. Low mastering costs, low replication costs, until the next best thing (downloading) comes along...:D
In your opinion, sure. In mine, not so. I don't think all studios are that eager to give all power to Toshiba and Microsoft, which, when you think about it, is what HD DVD is all about... :o

smithfarmer

11-19-06, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by 2Channel
What I don't get is all the folks who continue to make excuses for Sony.
Amen.

Prime example #2:

2CH: the difference is that it will go to people that think DVD is good enough. They will look at it, see it is MUCH better and re-evaluate if they should be looking for something better. The add-on is aimed at someone that wanted to spend 200$ and that wanted HD, he might have bought it because he could not afford more or because he says he wants HD but is not intelligent enough to realize that he can't get HD from most studios and if he wanted that he would need to go BD

For the add-on the movie is there to help convince people to buy the add-on instead of the Toshiba. So it needs to be a great movie. For the PS3 it is there to show the PS3 owner that BD movies are better then DVD, and that it does. It is there to convince the PS3 owner to spend money on BD movies, if they included the 50GB version no one will need to buy it.
Anthony do you even read what you write before you hit the submit button?

How is a sorry transfer going to convince anyone but the most rabid PS3/Blu Ray fanboy defending their format of choice that it's any thing special. If this BD title is going to people that you say think DVD is good enough, it's low quality certainly isn't going to do much to change their minds. And it certainly won't do anything for the large number of folks hooking this up to their SD tv's.

markrubin

11-19-06, 02:25 PM

mod

please challenge the information: not the poster

Thanks :)

smithfarmer

11-19-06, 02:28 PM

mod

please challenge the information: not the poster

Thanks :)
Are we allowed to challenge assumptions? :)

AnthonyP

11-19-06, 02:31 PM

Hollywood is running out of patience with BD, the PS3, and attach rates...How many PS3s were sold at launch?

Mike: how many HD DVD players, add-ons and PCs?

mikemorel

11-19-06, 02:34 PM

All of them? :D Yes, all of them. Less than the periodicals state...

In your opinion, sure. In mine, not so. I don't think all studios are that eager to give all power to Toshiba and Microsoft, which, when you think about it, is what HD DVD is all about... :oThe traditional CE vendors do not work here - we are talking about software, not hardware...There is no reason for Samsung, Pioneer, Panny, et. al. to compete here, in terms of a pure playback box... PS3 for playback will trounce them. HD-DVD will trounce them.

g55555sim

11-19-06, 02:37 PM

Are we allowed to challenge assumptions? :)

please do .. challenge the inferences too ... best thing to do is to challenge the desired reading of the text :D

g55555sim

11-19-06, 02:40 PM

Arguably, for now, BD PQ does not need to be better, and it is also definitely no worse (simply an effect of sharing the same codecs as the competing format). If PQ had been the basis for some to choose HD DVD over Blu-ray before, then it should no longer be an issue unless one dwells in the past, ignores current revelations, and disregards potential in favour of immediate satisfaction.

i disagree, for that price, the PQ should be SIGNIFICANTLY better!! :D

kenliles

11-19-06, 02:42 PM

Are we allowed to challenge assumptions? :)

challenge the assumption as an opinion- we all have them....
still no need to challenge the poster -

David Susilo

11-19-06, 02:43 PM

AnthonyP

11-19-06, 02:44 PM

How is a sorry transfer going to convince anyone but the most rabid PS3/Blu Ray fanboy defending their format of choice that it's any thing special.
did you see it? did you compare DVD , BD and HD DVD version of it (sorry forgot HD DVD version= DVD)

smithfarmer :when was the last time you saw J6P talking about "The image frequently looks a bit flat and veiled".
or
" the three dimensionality of better high definition transfers is just not there. "
the guy even admitted
the reviewer even admits he does not know if that is how it is intended to look
"Since I didn't see this one in the theaters, it is hard to say what is intentional or not"

what
J6P
will see and know is

"Colors are great and contrast is solid"

as well as it is MUCH better then DVD because the real artifacts won't be there

If this BD title is going to people that you say think DVD is good enough, it's low quality certainly isn't going to do much to change their minds. And it certainly won't do anything for the large number of folks hooking this up to their SD tv's.

have you tried it and made a DVD/BD comparison?

That is the difference between rabid HD DVD fan and not. Jumping to asinine conclusions and not

mikemorel

11-19-06, 02:44 PM

Mike: how many HD DVD players, add-ons and PCs?
By January 1, 2007? I might go for Hd DVD, or a tie. Which is a win for HD DVD. Sony can't stand HD DVD being there. Royalties are halved.

AnthonyP

11-19-06, 02:47 PM

i disagree, for that price, the PQ should be SIGNIFICANTLY better!!

g55555sim : for most it is, the only comparison is to DVD on an HD DVD player :)

AnthonyP

11-19-06, 02:51 PM

By January 1, 2007? I might go for Hd DVD, or a tie. Which is a win for HD DVD. Sony can't stand HD DVD being there. Royalties are halved.

not sure what you mean, are you saying Jan1 2007 # devices that can play HD DVD=# devices that can play BD? care to make the brakedown, I am curious to see what numbers you are thinking of

b2bonez

11-19-06, 03:02 PM

By January 1, 2007? I might go for Hd DVD, or a tie. Which is a win for HD DVD. Sony can't stand HD DVD being there. Royalties are halved.

I don't think that Toshiba even has access to a supply of 1,000,000 blue lasers to build that many products. Even if they did, they don't have a product (HD-DVD) that will support that kind of purchases by the public. DVD only sold 315,136 units sold in its first year (CEA info).

If you are going to claim that HD-DVD numbers are going to be better than DVD, then join the club at Warner and Toshiba and seek help while there is still time... ;)

This is what DVD did back in 1997.. DVD FAQ info..
Here's reality:

* 1997
o 349,000 DVD-Video players shipped in the U.S. (About 200,000 sold into homes.)
o 900 DVD-Video titles available in the U.S. Over 5 million copies shipped; about 2 million sold.
o Over 500,000 DVD-Video players shipped worldwide.
o Around 330,000 DVD-ROM drives shipped worldwide with about 1 million bundled DVD-ROM titles.
o 60 DVD-ROM titles (mostly bundled).

b2b

smithfarmer

11-19-06, 04:00 PM

did you see it? did you compare DVD , BD and HD DVD version of it (sorry forgot HD DVD version= DVD) ....have you tried it and made a DVD/BD comparison? That is the difference between rabid HD DVD fan and not. Jumping to asinine conclusions and not

This is intellectual honesty? That's like me asking you to compare the HD DVD copy of Serenity to the the BD version of the The Fifth Element. :eek:

I'll tell you this though, I trust the Highdefdigest review quoted here by b2b.
Fleshtones appear accurate, if a bit waxy.

Unfortunately, what 'Talladega Nights' suffers from is really awful contrast. I have no idea why it looks this way (and I didn't see it theatrically), but it is as if the entire image has been completely flattened out and darkened. There is zero "pop" to the presentation -- it's like watching the video through a pair of polarized sunglasses. As a result, depth and detail appear surreal and washed out, and colors are nowhere near as vibrant as they could have been. There is certainly none of the three-dimensionality I'm accustomed to with great high-def. It's hard to describe until you see it, but it is telling that the deleted scenes on this disc, which are also presented in full 1080p and 2.35:1 widescreen, look much better. It is doubly a shame, as Sony is bundling 'Talladega Nights' with the launch of its PlayStation 3 next-gen game console -- I can only hope there is just something wrong with my eyes and I'm the only one who finds 'Talladega Nights' this unwatchable.

And just to note, this review was from BD 50 release and the version that's included with the PS3 is on a BD 25 disc so I can only imagine how the quality turned out on that one. Unfortunately I couldn't find a review of the PS3 playing it's included copy of the disc.

b2bonez

11-19-06, 04:07 PM

This is intellectual honesty? That's like me asking you to compare the HD DVD copy of Serenity to the the BD version of the The Fifth Element. :eek:

I'll tell you this though, I trust the Highdefdigest review quoted here by b2b.

And just to note, this review was from BD 50 release and the version that's included with the PS3 is on a BD 25 disc so I can only imagine how the quality turned out on that one. Unfortunately I couldn't find a review of the PS3 playing it's included copy of the disc.

Well if you are going to "quote" my "quote" at least put all of it in... That might be considered "intellectual honesty" ;)
It doesn't seem like there is anything wrong with the source material, which looks as clean as a whistle. Grain is almost absent from the transfer, with solid blacks and consistent color saturation. I also noticed no chroma noise, compression artifacts or posterization. The film's color palette is quite bright and lively, with sun-drenched exteriors and a fine use of primary colors, in particular blues, reds and yellows. Fleshtones appear accurate, if a bit waxy.

b2b

smithfarmer

11-19-06, 04:21 PM

Well if you are going to "quote" my "quote" at least put all of it in... That might be considered "intellectual honesty" ;)

b2b
It wasn't pertinent as I had no disagreement with Anthony on that. :)

Eternal_Sunshine

11-19-06, 04:34 PM

I agree. As long as BD is priced higher than HD-DVD, then it MUST look significantly better than HD-DVD.

Huh? Blu-ray discs basically cost exactly the same as HD-DVDs.

Clepto

11-19-06, 04:40 PM

Huh? Blu-ray discs basically cost exactly the same as HD-DVDs.

I think he was highlighting the player cost

nataraj

11-19-06, 04:53 PM

In what looks like a strange twist these are the numbers I see in two owner head count polls.

PS3 Owners : 59

HD DVD Add-on Owners : 484

AnthonyP

11-19-06, 05:28 PM

This is intellectual honesty?
smithfarmer: what is? comparing things that don't exist to things that do?

That's like me asking you to compare the HD DVD copy of Serenity to the the BD version of the The Fifth Element.

no I asked you to do what J6P will do, he will compare DVD to BD. If a reviewer does not think it is the best BD he saw who the hell cares. J6P did not see the best BD titles, and if he buys them and decides that it was a bad version and BD is much better then what Sony included then

a) it worked and got them to buy more BDs

b) they will think BD looks much better then what I thought.

I'll tell you this though, I trust the Highdefdigest review quoted here by b2b.

Obviously you don't need to see the movie. Like all fanboys, find the worst review highlight the worst parts and pretend the movie is much worst.

g55555sim

11-19-06, 05:28 PM

In what looks like a strange twist these are the numbers I see in two owner head count polls.

PS3 Owners : 59

HD DVD Add-on Owners : 484

OI!!!! :D the PS3 head count thread was created on the 17th. the XBox 360 head count has a week head start (HD DVD seems to have a head start on everything nowadays :D )

.. anyhow i dont agree to the move of the PS3 head count to the PS3 thread. i want the votes to be relevant to BD, that was why i created it in the BD player thread. hope mods can do something about that ...

AnthonyP

11-19-06, 06:33 PM

It wasn't pertinent as I had no disagreement with Anthony on that.

come on b2b the discussion was intelectual honesty and why would someone that will watch a movie that
doesn't seem like there is anything wrong with the source material, which looks as clean as a whistle. Grain is almost absent from the transfer, with solid blacks and consistent color saturation. I also noticed no chroma noise, compression artifacts or posterization. The film's color palette is quite bright and lively, with sun-drenched exteriors and a fine use of primary colors, in particular blues, reds and yellows. Fleshtones appear accurate, if a bit waxy.
compared to an artifact full bad transfer DVD

we all know thanks to smithfarmer is that the only thing J6P cares about is
There is certainly none of the three-dimensionality I'm accustomed to with great high-def

and so they won't buy into BD

b2bonez

11-19-06, 06:48 PM

In what looks like a strange twist these are the numbers I see in two owner head count polls.

PS3 Owners : 59

HD DVD Add-on Owners : 484

Addendum to your data..

Toshiba A2 Owners : 0

;)

b2b

Steeb

11-19-06, 07:07 PM

Addendum to your data..

Toshiba A2 Owners : 0

;)

b2b

Addendum to your addendum:

Pioneer BDP-HD1 Owners: 0

Sony BDP-S1 Owners: 0

:D

Richard Paul

11-19-06, 08:48 PM

Sony can't stand HD DVD being there. Royalties are halved.Royalties on a format remain the same whether you are talking about a Blu-ray/HD DVD player or a universal player. The only difference is that you get two sets of royalties for two HD formats with a universal player. One of the reasons I would prefer to have a clear victor in this format war.

In what looks like a strange twist these are the numbers I see in two owner head count polls.

PS3 Owners : 59

HD DVD Add-on Owners : 484Interesting, but rather meaningless until we know how many HD DVD add-ons were released. In fact it is somewhat curious that Microsoft didn't bother to announce that number. Of course what would even be more useful is knowing how many HD DVD add-ons were sold.

blitz6speed

11-19-06, 09:09 PM

Interesting, but rather meaningless until we know how many HD DVD add-ons were released. In fact it is somewhat curious that Microsoft didn't bother to announce that number. Of course what would even be more useful is knowing how many HD DVD add-ons were sold.

The HD-DVD Addon is collecting dust at stores all across So Cal. Theres 0 intrest in it. I'd also do a poll of how many of those Addon owners own A1's, if they answer honestly, it should be over 70% of them. Everytime i read a post about the Addon, it has "Unlike my A1" in it. Pretty funny.

ckong

11-19-06, 09:23 PM

The HD-DVD Addon is collecting dust at stores all across So Cal. Theres 0 intrest in it. I'd also do a poll of how many of those Addon owners own A1's, if they answer honestly, it should be over 70% of them. Everytime i read a post about the Addon, it has "Unlike my A1" in it. Pretty funny.

Please oh please tell me you did not base your stats of the HD DVD add-on sell thru by measuring the dust level on its boxes......in south california no less.......

nataraj

11-19-06, 10:04 PM

The HD-DVD Addon is collecting dust at stores all across So Cal. Theres 0 intrest in it.

So Cal must be a very dusty place indeed :p

edit1 : Quite a few CCs are showing out of stock. Not sure exactly what is collecting dust ;)

edit2 : Looks like most best buys are out of stock too. What is your zip code ... let me check what the websites say. At this point looks like your credibility is at 0.

nataraj

11-19-06, 10:06 PM

Interesting, but rather meaningless until we know how many HD DVD add-ons were released.

Why ?

The poll shows many more avs people have the hd dvd add-on compared to ps3. What has that got to do with the release numbers ?

In fact it is somewhat curious that Microsoft didn't bother to announce that number.

Why. How many such accessories have you seen numbers of ?

wco81

11-19-06, 10:09 PM

No less valid than an AVS poll.

Richard Paul

11-19-06, 10:23 PM

Why ?

The poll shows many more avs people have the hd dvd add-on compared to ps3. What has that got to do with the release numbers ?Because the release numbers would be more useful than a poll of people who own one on AVS Forum.

Why. How many such accessories have you seen numbers of ?Well a external HD DVD drive is slightly different than a controller so if a lot of them were going to be released I think Microsoft would have promoted that fact. After all Microsoft basically made the external HD DVD drive because of their involvement in the format war. As such I expected more press releases from them concerning the sales rate of the HD DVD drive.

nataraj

11-19-06, 10:26 PM

Because the release numbers would be more useful than a poll of people who own one on AVS Forum.

Why ? If I want to know the level of interest in AVS, this is the right poll.

This is clearly a case of sour grapes :p

Well a external HD DVD drive is slightly different than a controller so if a lot of them were going to be released I think Microsoft would have promoted that fact.

So is the wheel or the camera or ....

b2bonez

11-19-06, 10:33 PM

Why ? If I want to know the level of interest in AVS, this is the right poll.

This is clearly a case of sour grapes :p

So is the wheel or the camera or ....

Considering there aren't any other HD-DVD players around (other than a few discontinued ones) it's more a case of no grapes rather than sour... ;)

b2b

onanie

11-19-06, 10:41 PM

I agree. As long as BD is priced higher than HD-DVD, then it MUST look significantly better than HD-DVD. Furthermore, it should CONSITENTLY be significantly better than HD-DVD. Especially when the BD camp have been claiming that BD is better than HD-DVD.

If you're stuck in October then perhaps. There is now a decent value Blu-ray player that does much more than the Toshibas. Hence my proposal that BD does not need to look any better than HD DVD (and again, it should look no worse because of the limited i.e. three codecs that they share, fundamentally).

Now, can BD look and sound better than HD DVD simply with its higher capacity and bandwidth? Definitely yes - logic dictates it.

What'sHD

11-19-06, 10:59 PM

Why ? If I want to know the level of interest in AVS, this is the right poll.

This is clearly a case of sour grapes :p
Let's get it on :D

"HD-DVD is better; More videophiles think so (proof: AVS forum polls). J6P, you should realize this and buy it also. Marketing prowess, manufacturer choice, branding and content are irrelevant (Irrelevant, I tell you! What?! You don't agree with that? Umm, ok..) when price is less."

I am hopeful that this is Not how strategy is decided in HD-DVD corps. If it is, I think HD-DVD won't survive into 2008. As of now, I personally think HD-DVD will survive the long term (and I will buy a PS3).

Congrats to MS for selling more add-ons to AVS folk than sony sold PS3s. Now, lets wait for the market verdict in 2007 :)

Michael Mullis

11-19-06, 11:15 PM

Well a external HD DVD drive is slightly different than a controller so if a lot of them were going to be released I think Microsoft would have promoted that fact. After all Microsoft basically made the external HD DVD drive because of their involvement in the format war. As such I expected more press releases from them concerning the sales rate of the HD DVD drive.

Well, then again, let's see Sony's release numbers for the PS3. Exactly.

I would think no one is going to post numbers about an item they want to sell through the holiday until after the holiday is over. If you're going to see 360 add-on sales numbers, I'm thinking you'll see them in January. Much like I'm sure that's when you'll see Sony numbers.

onanie

11-19-06, 11:20 PM

Why ? If I want to know the level of interest in AVS, this is the right poll.

This is clearly a case of sour grapes :p

So is the wheel or the camera or ....

Do you mean we can also do a poll on a PS3 fan site, and it will win the war for Sony? WOW!

Likewise, a poll on this forum would only tell us about the demographic of this forum. I also can't say for sure that this demographic hasn't been affected by the hostile presence of certain individuals here.

I will anticipate further comments by saying that while moderation on this forums have been very appropriate, there is just enough laxity that it has become a free-for-all match everyday.

b2bonez

11-19-06, 11:26 PM

Well, then again, let's see Sony's release numbers for the PS3. Exactly.

I would think no one is going to post numbers about an item they want to sell through the holiday until after the holiday is over. If you're going to see 360 add-on sales numbers, I'm thinking you'll see them in January. Much like I'm sure that's when you'll see Sony numbers.

Sony doesn't seem to have a problem with quoting shipping numbers..
Forbes.com: So how many PS3 units have actually made it from overseas as of Thursday?

Dille: In terms of putting location tracking devices on each unit and having them report back to us--well that’s a little difficult. But we’ve shipped the units and are doing everything we can to get them to retail stores by midnight and tomorrow. Boats are out of the equation completely. That’s not happening. We’re taking every unit onto an airplane, and those planes are taking off regularly--it’s a considerable expense, and we don’t want to do that forever. We’re comfortable we’ll have the 400,000 within a week. Then we want a steady flow for the rest of the year--all planes. The cavalry is coming.

I would think that Microsoft should know how many addons they are having built and when they might ship a quantity of them.

b2b

Michael Mullis

11-19-06, 11:32 PM

Come on b2b. The guy even said "In terms of putting location tracking devices on each unit and having them report back to us--well that’s a little difficult." So they don't know either. And we both know Sony didn't launch the number of units that they said they would, and some estimates have been half that.

"We’re comfortable we’ll have the 400,000 within a week." isn't the same as "We've currently shipped 400,000 this week." and you know it.

So maybe there is the answer everyone's looking for. Maybe Microsoft isn't going to try and speculate how many add-on's they've sold. Maybe they're waiting to get concrete numbers together.

Yeah, Sony hasn't had a problem quoting shipping numbers. They also haven't been right yet.

Wesley5

11-19-06, 11:34 PM

regarding the lack of HDMI on XBox add-on. From my POV, it's a non issue. By the time ICT is switched on (approx 2010 or later), you're already buying new players anyway....
You are confusing ICT with DOT (digital only token), which will become effective in 2010. Studios can turn on ICT anytime they want, or they can do it title by title. Even though I am happy with my Xbox HD DVD addon, I might still retunr it and wait for a sku with built-in HD DVD and HDMI.

b2bonez

11-19-06, 11:44 PM

nataraj

11-19-06, 11:47 PM

Do you mean we can also do a poll on a PS3 fan site, and it will win the war for Sony? WOW!

Did you even read my original post ? :rolleyes:

nataraj

11-19-06, 11:48 PM

Yeah, Sony hasn't had a problem quoting shipping numbers. They also haven't been right yet.

LOL. Good catch.

Richard Paul

11-19-06, 11:53 PM

Why ? If I want to know the level of interest in AVS, this is the right poll.True, but I thought you were actually curious about HD DVD sales rates. Also if you want to see a poll on the level of interest on the PS3 you will have to wait a few months until they are available on store shelves. Until than asking how many people have a PS3 is not really going to tell you how many people want one. A somewhat important difference in my opinion.

So is the wheel or the camera or ....So your saying that Microsoft isn't going to release the sales numbers for HD DVD drives since they don't consider it any differently than those accessories? I guess that could be possible though considering how they promoted it earlier this year at CES I thought it was more important.

Well, then again, let's see Sony's release numbers for the PS3. Exactly.I would like to see that as well, but at least we know that between 200,000 and 400,000 of them have been released. We don't really have a clue how many Xbox 360 drives were released. For instance if someone said that only 10,000 HD DVD add-on drives were released could you prove them wrong?

hdkhang

11-19-06, 11:56 PM

This is the HDTV Software Media Discussion Subforum.... how is it that a poll regarding users of Hi-Def media is inappropriately skewed for people discussing Hi-Def media??? Guess what, some of those AVS people buying the PS3 "may" be buying it exclusively for games!!! I very much doubt any of those HD-DVD Add-on folk are buying to play games only.

Cheers...
Duy-Khang Hoang

Richard Paul

11-20-06, 12:00 AM

Guess what, some of those AVS people buying the PS3 "may" be buying it exclusively for games!!!True, and that certainly would be a factor in any poll that deals with PS3 owners and Blu-ray playback. One problem with that though is how do you know that someone who buys it only for games won't end up using it for Blu-ray playback?

What'sHD

11-20-06, 12:13 AM

True, and that certainly would be a factor in any poll that deals with PS3 owners and Blu-ray playback. One problem with that though is how do you know that someone who buys it only for games won't end up using it for Blu-ray playback?
Nat doesn't know and (imo, based on months of observation) he fervently hopes (for the sake of HD-DVD) that it doesn't happen.

Whereas the corporations that support BD exclusively seem to think it will.

This pesky dilemma: Who to believe? Fortune 500 strategists or a stranger on AVS forum?

Ok, i have decided.. (i am a fast thinker, not) :D

I go with the people with the vision and experience in these matters, not those whose support (in my, possibly incorrect but quite strong, opinion) is determined by who they happen to be working for at the time of the format war.

hdkhang

11-20-06, 12:32 AM

He doesn't know and (imo) he fervently hopes (for the sake of HD-DVD) that it doesn't happen.

This makes no sense. Why should I care if someone uses their PS3 for BD playback? Thats like giving a damn if someone used their car to carry things other than people...

A simple poll suggested that there are more Add-on owners on AVS than are PS3 owners... this is hardly surprising as it is still very hard to get your hands on a PS3, I'm afraid I won't be able to get one when they land in Australia either and that's over 3 months away (luckily Ninja Gaiden Sigma isn't likely to launch by then either). From a Hi-Def perspective, being on a Hi-Def centric forum, it would seem that more people are watching Hi-Def media on the Add-on vs PS3, that is obvious enough even from a pure numbers point of view... but then there are also gamers on this forum, which don't have a care for Hi-Def media at this early point in the game which may have bought the PS3 for the gaming side exclusively, I know plenty of people who don't want to invest in Hi-Def media just yet. However the owners of the Add-on are exclusively movie watching purchases as that is all that peripheral is capable of. What is so damned hard to believe?

Cheers...
Duy-Khang Hoang

What'sHD

11-20-06, 12:34 AM

This makes no sense. Why should I care if someone uses their PS3 for BD playback? Thats like giving a damn if someone used their car to carry things other than people...

I am sorry, dude. I was talking about the other dude, not you.

My bad for not clarifying :)

onanie

11-20-06, 12:40 AM

Did you even read my original post ? :rolleyes:

Hmmm, it appears you haven't read mine, or it may have given you a case of occulogyric crisis.

Michael Mullis

11-20-06, 01:25 AM

Well at least we have an idea, that Sony has an idea of a number (400,000). With the Xbox addon the only idea that Microsoft has given is ( ???? ).

Ok, let's clear something else up really quick. If you really want to get technical, the marketing guy was responding to a question on Forbes. I haven't seen any media journalist ask a Microsoft marketing rep how many add-ons they shipped. Maybe if someone asks them, they might answer it.

Now until then gaming companies like Microsoft and Sony don't issue press releases declaring how many things they've shipped. They never have, they likely never will. In my 6 years running Next Level Gaming I never once got a press release from Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, or Sega (when I ran Dreamcast HQ before that) telling us how many units they shipped out. When they are ready to announce their sales numbers, they will send out a press release. That's how it works.

And again I ask, why give a number out that you end up being wrong about? First it was 1 million at launch. Then it was 400,000 at launch. Now we don't even know if it was 200,000 at launch. That arguement of "at least we have an idea" is not valid here. The truth is we DON'T have an idea, and all we can do is speculate and try and figure out if Sony's numbers are right. So exactly how has this information even been useful?

If that's the case, Microsoft can easily come out and say they shipped 5 million add-on units and all you could do is speculate if they really did or not.

b2bonez

11-20-06, 01:44 AM

Ok, let's clear something else up really quick. If you really want to get technical, the marketing guy was responding to a question on Forbes. I haven't seen any media journalist ask a Microsoft marketing rep how many add-ons they shipped. Maybe if someone asks them, they might answer it.

Now until then gaming companies like Microsoft and Sony don't issue press releases declaring how many things they've shipped. They never have, they likely never will. In my 6 years running Next Level Gaming I never once got a press release from Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, or Sega (when I ran Dreamcast HQ before that) telling us how many units they shipped out. When they are ready to announce their sales numbers, they will send out a press release. That's how it works.

And again I ask, why give a number out that you end up being wrong about? First it was 1 million at launch. Then it was 400,000 at launch. Now we don't even know if it was 200,000 at launch. That arguement of "at least we have an idea" is not valid here. The truth is we DON'T have an idea, and all we can do is speculate and try and figure out if Sony's numbers are right. So exactly how has this information even been useful?

If that's the case, Microsoft can easily come out and say they shipped 5 million add-on units and all you could do is speculate if they really did or not.

They have been asked, right here on AVS..
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP
Amir: I can understand both of them. But can you at least give us a ball park figure on how many MS thinks they will ship in 2006 or so far? are we talking 1M? or 10k? or 100k> or 200k like some are saying?

I am confused why it matters to you Anthony. I thought you were in blu-ray camp. Did you get a recent job as a market analyst?

But no, Xbox related data like this is highly confidential. Come and tell me something I don't know about PS3 shipment volumes and I might think about reciprocating...

__________________
Amir
Microsoft
HD DVD insider
VC-1 insider in BD/HD DVD
Ask me questions about HD DVD here
And here too..
The $199 Xbox 360 add-on also posted strong sales out of the gate Nov. 13 and gave an unexpected sales boost to the Xbox 360 console, Microsoft senior program manager Kevin Collins said, while doing press demonstrations of HD DVD from the HD DVD Promotional Group’s 18-wheeler parked on the Universal Studios backlot in Universal City, Calif., this week.

“It’s going right out,” he said, declining to speak of initial units shipped. Stores “are struggling to keep up with demand.”
http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6393228

There is your answer.. So much for asking..

b2b

onanie

11-20-06, 01:46 AM

Grubert

11-20-06, 05:35 AM

Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on reviewed on areadvd.de

Pros:
- Very good picture quality
- Reduced access time
- Great value for money

Cons:
- Perceptible console noise
- Slight dynamic range compression when playing back DD+ tracks
- Playback of Dolby True HD and DTS HD tracks only possible via conversion

All in all, it gets a "Very Good" rating, and a 10/10 rating for value.

BenDover

11-20-06, 07:11 AM

....

And again I ask, why give a number out that you end up being wrong about? First it was 1 million at launch. Then it was 400,000 at launch. Now we don't even know if it was 200,000 at launch. That arguement of "at least we have an idea" is not valid here. The truth is we DON'T have an idea, and all we can do is speculate and try and figure out if Sony's numbers are right. So exactly how has this information even been useful?

...

for the life of me i can't figure out why the "ardent bd supporters" ignore this while trying to crucify hd dvd/ms for everything, including a "dongle" :rolleyes:

los seres

11-20-06, 09:36 AM

MediaTek and Sunext reportedly more aggressive on Blu-Ray chip Schedule (http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20061120PB206.html)

MediaTek and Sunext Technology, a subsidiary of Sunplus Technology, will launch chips for Blu-ray drives next year, earlier than their scheduled launch of chips for HD-DVD drives, according to the Chinese-language Economic Daily News (EDN).

MediaTek has sent samples of chips for Blu-ray and HD-DVD drives to customers, including Lite-On IT, Samsung Electronics and LG Electronics (LGE), while Sunext will launch Blu-ray drive chips first and chips supporting both Blu-ray and HD-DVD drives later, the paper reported.

Paul_Seng

11-20-06, 10:58 AM

Michael Mullis

11-20-06, 11:42 AM

Thank you, Paul, you beat me to it. Asking a senior program manager or a technical developer is not the same as asking a marketing or PR person. In fact, I would venture a guess that subject is something Amir is not even allowed to talk about, much less would know the answer to.

b2bonez

11-20-06, 11:54 AM

b2b, you've got to be kidding us. By having someone on this forum ask Amir and he not giving an answer is not the same as a legitimate interview sanctioned by the company to talk to their PR man. Give at least this one a rest. The truth is PR men are also called spindoctors for a reason. They are good at answering a question that can be quoted without actually answering the question.

So what are you trying to prove, that someone did ask MS and they declined to give #'s? Or that Sony's #'s have to be right because they gave us one?

Kind of like this.?? "They are selling like hotcakes.. can barely keep up..."
Kevin Collins said, while doing press demonstrations of HD DVD from the HD DVD Promotional Group’s 18-wheeler parked on the Universal Studios backlot in Universal City, Calif., this week.

“It’s going right out,” he said, declining to speak of initial units shipped. Stores “are struggling to keep up with demand.”

Yup, that's some good spinning... ;)

b2b

mikey p

11-20-06, 01:04 PM

Kind of like this.?? "They are selling like hotcakes.. can barely keep up..."
b2b

At my local Best Buy, two (2) XBox HD DVD players on the shelf, PS3 display ONLY. Interesting, did not expect to see either?

markrubin

11-20-06, 01:19 PM

Hello

may I remind posters it is OK to question technical facts of a post...

but never bash or attack another member: regardless of your post count

Thanks

some [more]threads deleted

briankmonkey

11-20-06, 01:36 PM

Hmmm, it appears you haven't read mine, or it may have given you a case of occulogyric crisis.

lol

kjack

11-20-06, 01:39 PM

Blu-ray Disc™ Gets in Front of Target Market with Launch of High-Definition TV Advertising

High-Def TV, Print and Web Work Focal Points of Extended Marketing Campaign

AUSTIN, Texas--(BUSINESS WIRE)--A core group of Blu-ray Disc supporters including Twentieth Century Fox, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Sony and Warner Bros., working with Austin-based advertising and marketing agency, SicolaMartin, is utilizing the power of high-definition television along with a series of advertising and marketing initiatives to reach target audiences during the holiday shopping season. In order to best demonstrate the benefits of the Blu-ray Disc next-generation optical disc format, the group has produced a 30-second commercial shot for high-definition television that debuted on November 17. This spot, along with broader placement in print and online media outlets, builds upon earlier advertising efforts directed at home-entertainment enthusiasts. (Ad may be viewed at http://www.sicolamartin.com/bluraybroadcast/)

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20061120005180&newsLang=en

dialog_gvf

11-20-06, 01:41 PM

Sony DADC 50 GB Blu-ray Up and Running (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061120/nym001.html?.v=62)

Sony DADC has announced that they now have six 50 GB Blu-ray Disc production lines up and running.

In addition to the six dual layer lines currently running, the company has nine 25 GB Blu-ray Disc production machines in operation and has shipped over three million Blu-ray Discs for a client base of over 35 customers since beginning production in May of this year.

Sony DADC's Terre Haute facility also has two Phase Transition Mastering (PTM) systems and has been mastering 50 GB discs since mid-September 2006. Over 130 BD titles have been mastered, which include both 25 and 50 GB titles. Both PTM machines are capable of mastering PS3 titles as well. Sony DADC has three fully integrated Blu-ray packaging lines, all of which are fully operational and capable of supporting video and PS3 titles in both 25 GB and 50 GB formats.

Zassk

11-20-06, 01:45 PM

has shipped over three million Blu-ray Discs

Let me be the first to suggest that at least 2 million of those are PS3 game discs. (Even 2 million game discs would not fulfill a very high attach rate for consoles sold in 2006.)

dialog_gvf

11-20-06, 01:51 PM

Let me be the first to suggest that at least 2 million of those are PS3 game discs. (Even 2 million game discs would not fulfill a very high attach rate for consoles sold in 2006.)

Very likely. Perhaps more.

But, like HD DVD, this is SHIPPED not sold. People like counting attach rate chickens before they hatch. :)

Gary

Esox50

11-20-06, 01:58 PM

A core group of Blu-ray Disc supporters including Twentieth Century Fox, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Sony and Warner Bros.
Interesting to see WB as part of the "core group" of BD supporters, and in the same token, Disney is not listed.

All of this being said, it just seems the industry support for BD is overwhelming at this point. I'm starting to think HD DVD is really facing an uphill battle, despite what some people who post here would have us believe. If this is the way the industry wants it to be, then let's end this thing once and for all and everyone move forward...

UxiSXRD

11-20-06, 02:42 PM

Yeah it definitely looks that way to me. I still want to get an HD-XA1 and already have a 360 so the dongle looks attractive (especially at the sub $200 prices it can be had for), but have a bit of a long term worry that HDCP gets turned on and turns my dongle into something barely better than a normal DVD player... Concerns of the format dying are far more real for me than with Blu-ray since even if Sony gave up on all arms (CE, content, PC), Blu-ray will still have double the branded players and much more content exclusive to them...

At this point the add-on looks like a no-brainer, though to stay neutral in the format war even if I really don't like the aesthetics.

Talkstr8t

11-20-06, 02:57 PM

And again I ask, why give a number out that you end up being wrong about? First it was 1 million at launch. Then it was 400,000 at launch. Now we don't even know if it was 200,000 at launch. That arguement of "at least we have an idea" is not valid here. The truth is we DON'T have an idea, and all we can do is speculate and try and figure out if Sony's numbers are right. So exactly how has this information even been useful?

If that's the case, Microsoft can easily come out and say they shipped 5 million add-on units and all you could do is speculate if they really did or not.
Sony and Microsoft are both public companies. Claiming to have shipped a given quantity when in fact it's a different reality would have dire consequences with investors, the SEC, and others. That's very different than estimating a volume which will be shipped and not reaching that figure, although if one can prove the company knew at the time they claimed that shipment volume that they couldn't possibly meet it could also have ramifications.

Talkstr8t

11-20-06, 02:58 PM

for the life of me i can't figure out why the "ardent bd supporters" ignore this while trying to crucify hd dvd/ms for everything, including a "dongle"Because the number shipped last week is fairly meaningless, since it appears Sony will sell everything they can produce in the next six months, and all indications are that they are ramping production. So if they sold 400K units last week or it happens next week, and if they've sold 1M by the end of November or by the end of December just doesn't matter that much, since they will very likely have sold millions come next spring.

Talkstr8t

11-20-06, 03:04 PM

[QUOTE=Michael MullisAsking a senior program manager or a technical developer is not the same as asking a marketing or PR person. In fact, I would venture a guess that subject is something Amir is not even allowed to talk about, much less would know the answer to.[/QUOTE]Amir has made many statements here which suggest that he has a high level of autonomy to disclose that which he chooses to.

Considering that Microsoft can only benefit by disclosing significant HD-DVD add-on sales, I find it quite telling that they aren't quantifying this in any way beyond "selling like hotcakes". Does that mean total sales are comparable to the daily pancake sales at my local IHOP?

Talkstr8t

11-20-06, 03:05 PM

But, like HD DVD, this is SHIPPED not sold.Not even shipped, in many cases, but warehoused for upcoming title releases.

Esox50

11-20-06, 03:23 PM

SamwisetheBrave

11-20-06, 03:37 PM

Interesting to see WB as part of the "core group" of BD supporters, and in the same token, Disney is not listed.

All of this being said, it just seems the industry support for BD is overwhelming at this point. I'm starting to think HD DVD is really facing an uphill battle, despite what some people who post here would have us believe. If this is the way the industry wants it to be, then let's end this thing once and for all and everyone move forward...
lol!

Dang, thanks: you folks are always good for a laugh. Don't think some of us don't appreciate it.

Esox50

11-20-06, 03:47 PM

lol!

Dang, thanks: you folks are always good for a laugh. Don't think some of us don't appreciate it.
Glad you have a sense of humor too. :)

Precis

11-20-06, 03:52 PM

Considering that Microsoft can only benefit by disclosing significant HD-DVD add-on sales, I find it quite telling that they aren't quantifying this in any way beyond "selling like hotcakes". Does that mean total sales are comparable to the daily pancake sales at my local IHOP?

Not necessarily. If MS is using a new supplier for for the blue diode they may want to keep that quite in case there is some legal questions as to patents. Considering the minimal effect on MS financials the player would have they are under no real obligation to disclose such information. While I agree with you that for marketing purposes they should be sharing any successes, if they they are trying to avoid any court induced imposition on parts supply they would be wise to keep such info to themselves.

b2bonez

11-20-06, 04:02 PM

Not necessarily. If MS is using a new supplier for for the blue diode they may want to keep that quite in case there is some legal questions as to patents. Considering the minimal effect on MS financials the player would have they are under no real obligation to disclose such information. While I agree with you that for marketing purposes they should be sharing any successes, if they they are trying to avoid any court induced imposition on parts supply they would be wise to keep such info to themselves.

Well I guess I will just have to file this one under "And I thought I had heard everything" ... :confused:

;)

b2b

smithfarmer

11-20-06, 04:12 PM

no I asked you to do what J6P will do, he will compare DVD to BD. If a reviewer does not think it is the best BD he saw who the hell cares. J6P did not see the best BD titles, and if he buys them and decides that it was a bad version and BD is much better then what Sony included then

a) it worked and got them to buy more BDs

b) they will think BD looks much better then what I thought.

Obviously you don't need to see the movie. Like all fanboys, find the worst review highlight the worst parts and pretend the movie is much worst.
AnthonyP,

I have no intention of buying a PS3 as I've already explained that I have an Xbox 360 that I'm quite happy with. Now seeing as I don't have a way to do a direct comparison, why don't you tell us here how that comparison looked to you.

Do you have a PS3 ? If not, how do you even have a clue what the included disc looks like? The answer is that you don't. You go on and on about how J6P is going to blown away when he sees the greatness that is on the disc included with the PS3.

If the BD50 version looks bad according to the reviews, how on earth do you expect J6P to be so blown away by the included 25GB version that he's gonna run right out and buy lots more. Sorry but IMO it aint gonna happen, J6P owns a SD tv and won't see any difference at all.

As a matter of fact, even those J6P's with HD sets under 40" aren't going to see much of a difference to justify the higher costs of the HD discs on either format and will more than likely be quite happy with the SD versions.

mikemorel

11-20-06, 04:42 PM

Sony and Microsoft are both public companies. Claiming to have shipped a given quantity when in fact it's a different reality would have dire consequences with investors, the SEC, and others. That's very different than estimating a volume which will be shipped and not reaching that figure, although if one can prove the company knew at the time they claimed that shipment volume that they couldn't possibly meet it could also have ramifications.Here's an interesting rumor/stat/piece of data...

Nintendo estimated to have sold more than 600,000 Wii consoles at launch (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/11/20/nintendo_launches_wii/)

The least expensive of the three third generation gaming machines had a smashing start: At least if we believe NexGen wars, a website that tracks game console sales, Nintendo had sold more than 667,000 Wii consoles by Monday noon, more than double of what Sony was able to sell of its Playstation 3, which was estimated to have sold about 259,000 units initially and will remain in very limited supply until the second quarter of next year.259,000 units is well short (actually about 1/8 of the original projection of 2 million units back in Spring 2006. Not to mention the delay...What gives there Talk...Dire consequences with investors? If I were an investor in Sony, I'd be ripped, They delivered 1/8 what they said they would...If I were Fox, Lionsgate, Columbia, Disney, et. al., I'd be ripped, as well..

lymzy

11-20-06, 04:48 PM

Here's an interesting rumor/stat/piece of data...

Nintendo estimated to have sold more than 600,000 Wii consoles at launch (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/11/20/nintendo_launches_wii/)

259,000 units is well short (actually about 1/8 of the original projection of 2 million units back in Spring 2006. Not to mention the delay...What gives there Talk...Dire consequences with investors? If I were an investor in Sony, I'd be ripped, They delivered 1/12 what they said they would...If I were Fox, Lionsgate, Columbia, Disney, et. al., I'd be ripped, as well..

I saw the data from http://nexgenwars.com/ yesterday. The data seems to be updated everyday. It was around 250k for PS3 yesterday. Where did they get the numbers from? PS3 number is too low. 260k worldwide means only 180k for US on the launch. It is hard to believe. We need more accurate source.

mikemorel

11-20-06, 05:04 PM

I saw the data from http://nexgenwars.com/ yesterday. The data seems to be updated everyday. It was around 250k for PS3 yesterday. Where did they get the numbers from? PS3 number is too low. 260k worldwide means only 180k for US on the launch. It is hard to believe. We need more accurate source.I'm thinking 259K PS3s at launch. Not quite 2,000,000 at launch. oh well. Not quite the truth, yet again...Thanks for everything Sony.

WiFi-Spy

11-20-06, 05:05 PM

http://nexgenwars.com/images/x360_forum2.jpg (http://nexgenwars.com/)

http://nexgenwars.com/images/ps3_forum2.jpg (http://nexgenwars.com/)

http://nexgenwars.com/images/wii_forum2.jpg (http://nexgenwars.com/)

:)

briankmonkey

11-20-06, 05:08 PM

I'm thinking 259K PS3s at launch. Not quite 2,000,000 at launch. oh well. Not quite the truth, yet again...Thanks for everything Sony.

Yup, PS2 launched below original figures as well. It was so horrible that they barely came in first last gen ;) :p

But to be fair, I guess they all make mistakes:

Bill Gates said they'd have a 10 million unit-head start by the time the PS3 entered the market.. Looks like they almost hit it that goal as well, lol ;)

;) = sarcasm

What'sHD

11-20-06, 05:24 PM

I'm thinking 259K PS3s at launch. Not quite 2,000,000 at launch. oh well. Not quite the truth, yet again...Thanks for everything Sony.
I am sure you are more than welcome :)

Imo, HD-DVD supporters / BD-downers should be genuinely thankful to Sony for under-supplying PS3s.

Otherwise, the last bastion of HD-DVD's strategy, Universal, would have gone neutral if 2 million PS3s were lying in J6P houses. Whatever people might claim about MS or toshiba/rca/add-on players, Universal is the only corp that is providing HD-DVD a viable tactical advantage.

If Universal goes universal, its the beginning of the end for HD-DVD (imo).

Its not necessarily a good thing, given that its a good format, but its market reality and its time for one format to take over so J6P can shop with peace of mind. We have our cheap hardware thanks to the war and movies are as cheap as they are gonna get. Let's move on.

BenDover

11-20-06, 05:29 PM

...

Its not necessarily a good thing, given that its a good format, but its market reality and its time for one format to take over so J6P can shop with peace of mind. We have our cheap hardware thanks to the war and movies are as cheap as they are gonna get. Let's move on.

We do? Can you provide some links so that we can all partake in the deals?? :D

BenDover

11-20-06, 05:31 PM

I don't know about the 360 add-on, but I can certainly attest to the Nintendo Wii's selling like hotcakes!

mikemorel

11-20-06, 05:42 PM

Replication will be the undoing of the BD side here...Unfortunatly it will not be played out in public...

Michael Mullis

11-20-06, 05:46 PM

g55555sim

11-20-06, 06:12 PM

True, and that certainly would be a factor in any poll that deals with PS3 owners and Blu-ray playback. One problem with that though is how do you know that someone who buys it only for games won't end up using it for Blu-ray playback?

sorry to break it to you pal but BDA doesnt care if the PS3 purchasers use the console to watch BD movies. They just want a sale figure. Their PR is already utilising the sales figure of PS3 when we all know that those who lined up for days to get the console most probably wont use the console for movies.

You my dear is sanctioning what they are doing.

The PS3, which sold out all 400,000 units on Friday, includes a Blu-ray player

http://www.tvpredictions.com/blurayads112006.htm

PS3 Gives Blu-ray Big Boost - Blu-ray HDTV DVD players are now in nearly 500,000 U.S. homes.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/ps3blu112006.htm

smithfarmer

11-20-06, 06:15 PM

Before folks can count on Sony to deliver the death knell for HD DVD via the PS3, you might hope that the reviews of the system start to get a bit better than this. Regardless of how good a BD player it might end up being, it first has to be a decent game system in order to move units after the initial launch period:

"Howard Stringer, you have a problem. Your company’s new video game system just isn’t that great."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/20/arts/20game.html?_r=2&ref=technology&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

BenDover

11-20-06, 06:18 PM

g55555sim

11-20-06, 06:18 PM

Here's an interesting rumor/stat/piece of data...

Nintendo estimated to have sold more than 600,000 Wii consoles at launch

oh dear !! there goes potential PS3 buyers ... ;)

Because the release numbers would be more useful than a poll of people who own one on AVS Forum.

What if the AVS Forum figures are the other way around? i am certain the use of these tiny polls on PS3 and HD DVD add on at AVS is more valid than claiming The PS3, which sold out all 400,000 units on Friday, includes a Blu-ray player or Blu-ray HDTV DVD players are now in nearly 500,000 U.S. homes. as the launch sales of the PS3 is almost not relevant to BD movie.

The HD-DVD Addon is collecting dust at stores all across So Cal. Theres 0 intrest in it. I'd also do a poll of how many of those Addon owners own A1's, if they answer honestly, it should be over 70% of them. Everytime i read a post about the Addon, it has "Unlike my A1" in it. Pretty funny.

wow ... one week oredi "collecting dust" .. that place must be very dusty and "airconditioningless" LOL :D

g55555sim

11-20-06, 06:48 PM

requires a subscription...can you post more snippets?

strange .. i can read it though i am not a subscriber.. maybe its a grant for people for people from 3rd world nation :D

wco81

11-20-06, 06:48 PM

requires a subscription...can you post more snippets?

It's not very long.

You can get around NY Times articles requiring subscription by going to bugmenot.com.

Actually, go to joystiq.com, from which the NY Times author gets his talking points.

"After just the first weekend after launch, Sony has failed to deliver on the potential of the PS3!"

"Sony has to use software updates to deliver some of the stuff XBL has, which was also delivered by software updates!"

"Sony doesn't have XBL!"

"no HDMI cable!"

No mention of features PS3 has which X360 lacks them. Just the other way around.

roma_victor

11-20-06, 06:50 PM

From Time magazine:

Friday, Nov. 17, 2006
Sony's Playstation 3 is Not Worth the Hype

People who have been camping out for days finally get their PS3s today. Sadly, both their time and money has been wasted

By LEV GROSSMAN
Sony released the Playstation 3 in Japan on November 11. That was last Saturday. By Thursday Japanese import units had already made their way halfway around the world to New York City's Chinatown, where they were available for a 100% markup — and they were selling. That's how high the demand is for Sony's new video game machine: people would actually pay double the price to get it one day early. ....

For now it's pretty much moot anyway. Because of the difficulty of manufacturing Playstation 3's, Sony has only been able to put a few hundred thousand units on sale in the U.S., so unless you spent last night camped out in front of a Gamestop, buying a Playstation3 is not an option. Congratulations: you made the right call. And you smell better for it, too.

link: http://www.time.com/time/business/printout/0,8816,1560635,00.html

edited by mod: copyright article
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I'm looking at getting the PS3 as my first BD player (I have little interest in gaming). The reviews of it as a BD player that I have seen has been mixed - some say it's as good as stand alone players, while others say it's inferior. I'd like to check it