I looked up just a few titles that are available for sale or pre-order via Amazon on both formats. The Amazon DVD sales ranks between formats--I found to be interesting:

Superman: HD-#590 BR-#12,080
Superman 2: HD-#653 BR-#8,072
Million Dollar Baby: HD-#470 BR-#17535
Christmas Vacation: HD-#1,317 BR-#12,719

This isn't really surprising.
HD DVD supporters will tell you HD DVD is selling much better than Blu-ray and the Amazon rankings as evidence.
Whereas the Blu-ray supporters will tell you they don't buy from Amazon, so the figures are not accurate. Then again, many of the Blu-ray supporters still think Blu-ray is a better overall value. :confused:

This is not new at all.

If you want to save time looking at Amazon rankings, just check this site:

http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm

Amazon rankings are very very fast and arbitrary to be honest

A friend of mine had a book on amazon that cracked the top 50, and they only ever moved like 1200 copies for him

I have looked at the same numbers.

I speculate that folks who are buying Blu-Ray (at least from Amazon) also own HD DVD. When they buy a Warners title for example, they buy the HD DVD version. They only buy Blu-Ray when the title is not available on HD DVD.

Look at some of the high-volume Blu-Ray titles: they tend to be titles not available on HD DVD. Likewise, Warners titles will have relatively high HD DVD sales ranks, and very low Blu-Ray ranks.

Warners has exacerbated this by 1) shippnig their Blu-Ray titles later, and 2) not paying as much attention to the sound on Blu-Ray. Paramount has done a fairer job of supporting both titles, and the ranks for their titles are somewhat closer.

But the high-rank Blu-Ray titles have a lot of Fox titles if you notice. Even Terminator 2 (a poor example of Blu-Ray) and The Fifth Element (a wretched disk for which Sony should be ashamed) rank higher on Blu-Ray than some of the great looking Warners titles.

I have looked at the same numbers.

I speculate that folks who are buying Blu-Ray (at least from Amazon) also own HD DVD. When they buy a Warners title for example, they buy the HD DVD version. They only buy Blu-Ray when the title is not available on HD DVD.

Look at some of the high-volume Blu-Ray titles: they tend to be titles not available on HD DVD. Likewise, Warners titles will have relatively high HD DVD sales ranks, and very low Blu-Ray ranks.


That is very true. I speculated about that being true a couple months ago. It still seems true. The real title to analyze are the Mission Impossibles which came out the same day as all other versions and were nearly identical. That's where the differences will spell out some format differences more clearly.

I can't wait until sales numbers actually are released. That should cause some havoc.

I think the majority of folks that own blu-ray also own an hd-dvd player (not including PS3).
On the other hand, only a minority of HD DVD owners own blu-ray.
Since the common titles tend to be released earlier on HD DVD (and bought), this may help explain the disparity.

I believe the disparity is simply in more HD DVD players being in consumer homes. In the case of The Corpse Bride that title hit Blu-ray first and it still was quickly usurped in sales volume once the HD DVD version hit.

I speculate that folks who are buying Blu-Ray (at least from Amazon) also own HD DVD. When they buy a Warners title for example, they buy the HD DVD version. They only buy Blu-Ray when the title is not available on HD DVD.
I don't understand your reasoning here. Why would people do that?

The reasons I could think of to support this are:

1) The HD DVD releases have better video. (True in some cases, not true in others.)
2) The HD DVD releases have better audio. (Dolby Digital Plus)
3) They think Blu-ray is going to die, so they don't want to invest too much into discs.

If that truly were the case, then the outlook wouldn't be so good for Blu-ray obviously. However, I don't actually believe that.

Personally, I think the Amazon sales are simply a reflection of what the overall interest in HD DVD vs. Blu-ray is. HD DVD is more popular in general at the moment.

I have looked at the same numbers.

I speculate that folks who are buying Blu-Ray (at least from Amazon) also own HD DVD. When they buy a Warners title for example, they buy the HD DVD version. They only buy Blu-Ray when the title is not available on HD DVD.

Thank God for Blu Ray owners, they might just save HD DVD!

Look at some of the high-volume Blu-Ray titles: they tend to be titles not available on HD DVD. Likewise, Warners titles will have relatively high HD DVD sales ranks, and very low Blu-Ray ranks.


Now, maybe.

Before, it used to be 1/2 BD exclusives and 1/2 HD DVD movies...which I never understood.

That's even more telling that they're now mostly exclusives.

I have looked at the same numbers.

I speculate that folks who are buying Blu-Ray (at least from Amazon) also own HD DVD. When they buy a Warners title for example, they buy the HD DVD version. They only buy Blu-Ray when the title is not available on HD DVD.

Look at some of the high-volume Blu-Ray titles: they tend to be titles not available on HD DVD. Likewise, Warners titles will have relatively high HD DVD sales ranks, and very low Blu-Ray ranks.

Warners has exacerbated this by 1) shippnig their Blu-Ray titles later, and 2) not paying as much attention to the sound on Blu-Ray. Paramount has done a fairer job of supporting both titles, and the ranks for their titles are somewhat closer.

But the high-rank Blu-Ray titles have a lot of Fox titles if you notice. Even Terminator 2 (a poor example of Blu-Ray) and The Fifth Element (a wretched disk for which Sony should be ashamed) rank higher on Blu-Ray than some of the great looking Warners titles.


I think you hit it right on the head. I own both, and don't have a single BD that is also available on HD DVD yet. On the other hand, I have half a dozen or so HD DVD titles that are now available on BD. Why? Because I already had the HD DVD by the time the BD was released. The only exception was Lake House. They released at the same time, and I had intended to get the BD as it was cheaper than the HD DVD combo disc, but the BD was out of stock and the HD DVD was sitting there.

Truthfully, I would buy the BD over the HD more often if they were out first. Even though the picture is often slightly better on the HD, the HD-A1 is still a tempermental, frustrating machine. I'd sacrifice a bit of playback quality for the ease of my BD player.

Amazon rankings are very very fast and arbitrary to be honest

A friend of mine had a book on amazon that cracked the top 50, and they only ever moved like 1200 copies for him
Here are some daily running numbers that won't fluctuate by the nanosecond.

http://www.thedvdwars.com

It's not a fleeting illusion that HD DVD sales are far ahead.

Further, Since Sony has now stated that they have sold 400,000 PS3's, how come the BR sales rankings haven't budged?

Could it be that the predictions about game machines' low "attach rates" for movies were correct?

Thank God for Blu Ray owners, they might just save HD DVD!
:D LOL!

Could it be that the predictions about game machines' low "attach rates" for movies were correct?
Yeah it couldn't have anything to do with people buying their BD movies from the stores they just spent hours lining up outside.
:)

Yeah it couldn't have anything to do with people buying their BD movies from the stores they just spent hours lining up outside.
:)

Same can be said of HD-DVD Add-on...

Cheers...
Duy-Khang Hoang

I'd sacrifice a bit of playback quality for the ease of my BD player.

You might reconsider this position. If in fact you feel that the playback quality of BD releases is not quite as good as HD DVD (your words, not mine), then you might consider than within a couple of years you'll upgrade the players (since that is what normally happens), and most likely you're next HD DVD player will be more refined. At the point, you might be upset at yourself if you've built a large and expensive library of Blu-ray discs that you feel are not quite as good as the HD DVD discs. In the future, you don't want to feel like every time you play a movie in one format, that it would have looked better in the other format. Just something to chew on.

Same can be said of HD-DVD Add-on...

Cheers...
Duy-Khang Hoang
No it couldn't. There were no line ups at all for the add-on's release.

Clearly lines are not what sell movies. I am quite certain hdkhang was referring to HD DVD add ons that were bought at B&M's. Perhaps more so, as the product is being bought with the sole intention of watching high def movies as the PS3 is mainly a game console that some will also use as a movie player.

You might reconsider this position. If in fact you feel that the playback quality of BD releases is not quite as good as HD DVD (your words, not mine), then you might consider than within a couple of years you'll upgrade the players (since that is what normally happens), and most likely you're next HD DVD player will be more refined. At the point, you might be upset at yourself if you've built a large and expensive library of Blu-ray discs that you feel are not quite as good as the HD DVD discs. In the future, you don't want to feel like every time you play a movie in one format, that it would have looked better in the other format. Just something to chew on.

Gee, I must have missed the PQ "Quality Guarantee" that comes with every HD-DVD disc, is that the same one that comes with DVD ??? :rolleyes:

b2b

Clearly lines are not what sell movies. I am quite certain hdkhang was referring to HD DVD add ons that were bought at B&M's. Perhaps more so, as the product is being bought with the sole intention of watching high def movies as the PS3 is mainly a game console that some will also use as a movie player.
Indeed. I find it a little odd that there are so many wild theories about why BD sales lag on Amazon.

The KISS principle tells us that BD sales lag because the interest in owning BDs is lower.

Here are some daily running numbers that won't fluctuate by the nanosecond.

http://www.thedvdwars.com


Except they get their numbers from Amazon rankings, and do not have access to the actual units moved, just the ranking

The KISS principle tells us that BD sales lag because the interest in owning BDs is lower.

No, that's your personal bias

Applying the scientific method. Indeed, that is ONE POSSIBLE CAUSE, however there are so many other demonstrated factors, from buying habits (store vs B&M vs other online sites), habits formed by longer HD-DVD or BR ownership (note how the exclusives sell the best) etc, that judging by one website alone is completely and utterly intellectually dishonest. The only mostly reliable figures would be published per title sales numbers by a reputable industry organization, which DVDwars.com certainly is not.

No, that's your personal bias

Applying the scientific method. Indeed, that is ONE POSSIBLE CAUSE, however there are so many other demonstrated factors, from buying habits (store vs B&M vs other online sites), habits formed by longer HD-DVD or BR ownership (note how the exclusives sell the best) etc, that judging by one website alone is completely and utterly intellectually dishonest. The only mostly reliable figures would be published per title sales numbers by a reputable industry organization, which DVDwars.com certainly is not.
Considering there is an absence of contradictory information, the Amazon rankings seem reasonably representative. Just about every report we heard (from individuals at various stores) seems to agree that HD DVD sales far outstrip BD sales.

Making up excuses for why BD sales lag certainly does not make any us believe that they don't, especially there is not a single source out there that supports the contention that BD isn't lagging.

That may change with the PS3, but it certainly didn't change overnight like some people in the past had claimed it would.

Considering there is an absence of contradictory information, the Amazon rankings seem reasonably representative. Just about every report we heard (from individuals at various stores) seems to agree that HD DVD sales far outstrip BD sales.

And those reports tend to be from people with HD-DVD preference. Again, the closest to unbiased figures are published ones through the studios. The Amazon rankings are proven conclusively to be...horribly innaccurate when it comes to actual units moved

The only thing you have a solid hypothesis on is that more people who shop at Amazon prefer HD-DVD

Gee, I must have missed the PQ "Quality Guarantee" that comes with every HD-DVD disc, is that the same one that comes with DVD ???

Reading comprehension. My post was a repsonse to someone who said "Even though the picture is often slightly better on the HD". I said in my post "your words, not mine" just to make sure I wouldn't get the kind of response you posted. So what was the point of me doing that, since you were determined to write your sarcastic remark irrespective of the content of the posts preceding it?

Amazon has a huge share of the market, and their numbers are very representative of the overall trend.

Short of accusing Amazon of bias (which some have actually tried to do, remarkably) there is little else in subjective numbers available to the public.

Perhaps "Uncle Joe's Bluray Shoppe" might be accepted by some here? :)

These numbers are real, and very representative.

It seems HD DVD already lost in Amazon Japan

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/bestsellers/dvd/274068011/

Short of accusing Amazon of bias (which some have actually tried to do, remarkably) there is little else in subjective numbers available to the public.

Perhaps "Uncle Joe's Bluray Shoppe" might be accepted by some here?

These numbers are real, and very representative.

No they're not. See above. I've already given examples of how few copies one can sell and end up way up in the rankings, and that all you've proven is that Amazon customers seem to prefer HD-DVD at this time.

It seems HD DVD already lost in Amazon Japan

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/bestsellers/dvd/274068011/
No surprise there.

It would be hard to find even HD DVD supporters at AVS that claimed that HD DVD would do well in Japan.

But wait... Using WickyWoo's argument, Amazon numbers are useless. I thereby declare that HD DVD supporters in Japan shun Amazon, and in reality there are a bazillion HD DVDs bought at other stores and Amazon is completely non-representative. ;) :D

It seems HD DVD already lost in Amazon Japan

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/bestsellers/dvd/274068011/

I have a question

On page two Their is Resident Evil 2 The Apocalypse, cept they have it in English as Biohazard . Now I can understand if the Japanese caracters for it means Bio-hazard, but why spell it out in english as Bio-hazard instead of resident Evil.

I have a question

On page two Their is Resident Evil 2 The Apocalypse, cept they have it in English as Biohazard . Now I can understand if the Japanese caracters for it means Bio-hazard, but why spell it out in english as Bio-hazard instead of resident Evil.

Bio Hazard is the Japanese name for the game and movie. The Japanese characters actually read as Bio Hazard.

Because the name of the game in Japan is Biohazard, and not Resident evil.

Because the name of the game in Japan is Biohazard, and not Resident evil.

I get that But if the american or english name of the movie is Resident Evil, don't you think they would have the english writing saying Resident Evil and the Japanese be Biohazard.

No. Japanese products and movies frequently have their English titles on them as well, and many Japanese can read English plenty to see it was different. The phonetic alphabet that is used to write "Biohazard" is called katakana, and is used to write words of non-Japanese origin, so it was always titled the English word Biohazard.

Capcom, as usual in their infinite wisdom decided we needed a new title here.

http://moeroshop.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4393

It seems HD DVD already lost in Amazon Japan

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/bestsellers/dvd/274068011/Hmmm - I'm struggling to see how a list of Bluray titles means that HD DVD has "lost".

While those are pretty cover shots, where am I to deduce from that page that "HD DVD has lost"?

Thanks for the help...

It's the top sellers in the HD category

And Amazon Japan is just as invalid as Amazon US

Hmmm - I'm struggling to see how a list of Bluray titles means that HD DVD has "lost".

While those are pretty cover shots, where am I to deduce from that page that "HD DVD has lost"?

Thanks for the help...As WickyWoo points out it's the HD-only category for both Blu-ray and HD DVD. Don't you see a few red HD DVD cases in the ranking? If you mean you saw so few HD DVD that's what I meant.

I do believe that BD and the PS3 will be much more popular in Japan . In fact all Sony formats do well there - UMD, MD etc. howere, it doesn't have any bearing on which format will win in the US and rest of the world. For formats, US market is the key and Sony knows that too.

I believe Virgin Megastore reported that HD DVD was outselling BD by between 4:1 and 3:1, even after the PS3 release. There is thread on the forum with a link to the article.....

You guys act like Japan is somehow immune to "not invented here" syndrome. I could give a crap about what's hot in Japan. There's too much of a cultural difference to glean any useful data. They like small gadgets, Americans like big gadgets.

The PS3 seems to be having little effect on sales. Blu-ray fans are right though. I am in "shock and awe" about the apathy towards Blu-ray.

Toshiba needs to deliver the A2 in quantity and in 2007 continue to drive a steak through the heart of Blu-ray. This format is going to fold.

maybe all hd-dvds are being bought from amazon since they are so hard to buy in stores.
while bluray movies are much easier to pick up at stores. at least that is what i heard from the people who buy HD-DVDs.

i need to order movies from amazon on either HD-DVD or bluray since i am in japan. but otherwise i would be in the shop and get my movies. i dont like waiting on new releases. i want it now.

...since they are so hard to buy in stores.
while bluray movies are much easier to pick up at stores.
Not true in the US midwest IME.

maybe all hd-dvds are being bought from amazon since they are so hard to buy in stores.
while bluray movies are much easier to pick up at stores. at least that is what i heard from the people who buy HD-DVDs.

i need to order movies from amazon on either HD-DVD or bluray since i am in japan. but otherwise i would be in the shop and get my movies. i dont like waiting on new releases. i want it now.


Only 2 of my 12 HD DVDs were purchased via Amazon. Buy.com and Bestprices.com were my main two stores because of the Google Checkout deal. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I tend to view the Amazon sales as conservative.

maybe all hd-dvds are being bought from amazon since they are so hard to buy in stores.
while bluray movies are much easier to pick up at stores. at least that is what i heard from the people who buy HD-DVDs.

i need to order movies from amazon on either HD-DVD or bluray since i am in japan. but otherwise i would be in the shop and get my movies. i dont like waiting on new releases. i want it now.

BDA announced 3mil BD media were shipped. 3 BD movieswere packaged with every PS3 sold. 500,000 PS3 were sold at launch. 3x500,000 (assuming the same BD movie package apply to the Japanese launch) = 1.5mil BD media gone. That leaves the remaining 1.5M Blu-ray media shared by BD Recordables, PS3 game disks and BD ROM (Movie). Kinda short supply dont you think? :D

3 BD movieswere packaged with every PS3 sold

since when?

I have bought over 60 HD DVD and 3 BD at Best Buy and Target. High demand HD DVD titles from Warner arrive a week late sometimes, but otherwise I've had no problems picking up HD DVD titles in N.Va.

BDA announced 3mil BD media were shipped. 3 BD movieswere packaged with every PS3 sold. 500,000 PS3 were sold at launch. 3x500,000 (assuming the same BD movie package apply to the Japanese launch) = 1.5mil BD media gone. That leaves the remaining 1.5M Blu-ray media shared by BD Recordables, PS3 game disks and BD ROM (Movie). Kinda short supply dont you think? :D
Somebody has been smoking something...

Almost every point in that post is wrong.

I have had some discussions about this with some industry insiders and I have my own observations with clients as well. The following are some of things I have seen and heard.

- I was told the authoring tools for Blu-Ray are far behind those for HD-DVD slowing the time to market for movies.
- I am seeing at least 20 to 1 HD-DVD to Blu-Ray players in peoples homes at this point.
- I have heard many players in the electronics and movie industry are not happy with Sony at this point.
- Many of my clients are purchasing the HD-DVD add-on for their XBOX 360.
- I have started to see some excitement from clients over PS3. One actually had it, but was selling it on Ebay.
- Some in the industry believe the market for this is too small at this point to make any conclusions about who is winning or losing today.
- Many people find the current Blu-Ray price point too high.
- Some in the industry see this as a Microsoft versus them battle.

I personally have no crystal ball on how this will turn out.

any clients have both umr?

any clients have both umr?

Not yet.

It seems to me there are a few different camps at this point. One is a client who is very pro Sony/Pioneer and will only purchase Blu-Ray. The other is a person who is price sensitive and is waiting it out. The other is someone who wants the latest and greatest, but does not want to spend much and purchases HD-DVD. The other camp is buying what they think is best based on content and/or technology which can be either device. The last camp hates Sony and will avoid Blu-Ray as long as possible.

I am seeing at least 20 to 1 HD-DVD to Blu-Ray players in peoples homes at this point.

There are at least 3 times as many Blu-Ray players as HD-DVD players according to Toshiba's best, and Sony's worst figures. Stop this "PS3 doesn't count" bull, it plays BR, it counts. Even if you take the wildest guesstimates of this forum of 120,000 HD-DVD addons for 360, it's still at least double the installed base

Honesty is the key to real debate

There are at least 3 times as many Blu-Ray players as HD-DVD players according to Toshiba's best, and Sony's worst figures. Stop this "PS3 doesn't count" bull, it plays BR, it counts. Even if you take the wildest guesstimates of this forum of 120,000 HD-DVD addons for 360, it's still at least double the installed base

Honesty is the key to real debate

I am being honest about what I am seeing. I am at a loss though to square this with the numbers I have seen published either.

- Many of my clients are purchasing the HD-DVD add-on for their XBOX 360.
Are they using it as their primary player?

Some in the industry believe the market for this is too small at this point to make any conclusions about who is winning or losing today.
That's a fair assessment.

I have heard many players in the electronics and movie industry are not happy with Sony at this point.
Yeah, no doubt.

Some in the industry see this as a Microsoft versus them battle.
I suspected this would be the case. Mind you, I've also wondered if some feel that Sony is trying to strongarm the media format war, in order to push its own game biz profits.


There are at least 3 times as many Blu-Ray players as HD-DVD players according to Toshiba's best, and Sony's worst figures.
That is of course very misleading, as you choose to ignore HD DVD add-ons for the 360 in that statement.

Stop this "PS3 doesn't count" bull, it plays BR, it counts. Even if you take the wildest guesstimates of this forum of 120,000 HD-DVD addons for 360, it's still at least double the installed base

Honesty is the key to real debate
You seem to take issue with personal observations. I prefer to take them at face value. ie. He sees lots more HD DVD players, but does not ever claim his 20:1 ratio is at all representative of the overall picture.

P.S. 120000 is not necessarily a "wild guesstimate", as the HD DVD add-on has been selling well, and continues to do so, since it is not constrained by supply.

In fact, I would not be surprised if at the end of 2006, the sales of the PS3 and the sales of the HD DVD add-on drive for the 360 are in the same ballpark, with the added point that the 360 add-on is purchased specifically to watch HD movies, while the PS3 is not.

I am seeing at least 20 to 1 HD-DVD to Blu-Ray players in peoples homes at this point.


that looks odd. HD DVD palyers <70k at 20:1 that would put BD in the low 4 digits

Many of my clients

clients? can I ask whant you do?

Some in the industry believe the market for this is too small at this point to make any conclusions about who is winning or losing today.


agree with that

I was told the authoring tools for Blu-Ray are far behind those for HD-DVD slowing the time to market for movies.

BD has been pumping out more titles then HD DVD, that is why oin less times they have caught up. Also BD has shipped around 2x as amny copies (but for BD it includes games)

Somebody has been smoking something...

Almost every point in that post is wrong.

no 3 BD movies were packaged with PS3 .. talaga night .... etc .. where did i get the notion that it was .. let me check .. :o

You seem to take issue with personal observations. I prefer to take them at face value. ie. He sees lots more HD DVD players, but does not ever claim his 20:1 ratio is at all representative of the overall picture.

Personal observations are immaterial in the case where they grossly conflict with what we DO have hard numbers on.

In fact, I would not be surprised if at the end of 2006, the sales of the PS3 and the sales of the HD DVD add-on drive for the 360 are in the same ballpark, with the added point that the 360 add-on is purchased specifically to watch HD movies, while the PS3 is not.


Once again I cite 20 years of game system addon precident. Furthering that is the fact that my local Gamestop has 0 HD-DVD movies in stock, but they are carrying about 10 BR titles. If the biggest video game retailer(exclusive one that is) isn't carrying the HD-DVD stuff, then the units are obviously not moving for them. The movies also didn't show up till at least a week after launch of PS3.

no 3 BD movies were packaged with PS3 .. talaga night .... etc .. where did i get the notion that it was .. let me check

I think it's Panasonic that's doing that, or is it only 2? The PS3 has Talledega nights and a bunch of coupons

I think it's Panasonic that's doing that, or is it only 2? The PS3 has Talledega nights and a bunch of coupons

The Panasonic bundles one title and a coupon to redeem 2 additional titles free online. PS3 has 1 title bundled currently.

...
clients? can I ask whant you do?
...

I calibrate home theater systems around the country (East Coast, West Coast, Mid West, South...). I see up to 12 systems a week. Many of my clients are associated with the movie or CE industry. I also meet people in the industry when I am at various locations either by invitation or for training purposes.

Are they using it as their primary player?
...

Both yes and no. It is not a good DVD player because the black level is wrong for regular DVDs.

Once again I cite 20 years of game system addon precident.
This is not a game add on. You apparently do not understand what that "precident" [sic] is really. It has been understood that game add ons were by and large failures, because they divided the market, few developers supported them, and the add on was hardly ever used. It generated no demand and created no revenue.

The HD DVD add on merely adds functionality to the console, is very reasonably priced, and the software it depends on is already readily available and is also driven by stand alone players.

It shares nothing with gaming add ons, other than it plugs into the console.

...I suspected this would be the case. Mind you, I've also wondered if some feel that Sony is trying to strongarm the media format war, in order to push its own game biz profits....

The interesting view that I did not expect is that they fear Microsoft. Some believe Microsoft only cares about Microsoft and they may harm the studios in the process if HD-DVD wins. I also heard that Apple is pushing Blu-Ray behind the scenes.

The view you express is probably more common with the other CE manufacturers.

Both yes and no. It is not a good DVD player because the black level is wrong for regular DVDs

The black isn't "wrong", it's set to Japanese standard IRE 0 for black. US is IRE 7

This is not a game add on. You apparently do not understand what that "precident" [sic] is really. It has been understood that game add ons were by and large failures, because they divided the market, few developers supported them, and the add on was hardly ever used. It generated no demand and created no revenue.

You mean essentially like HD-DVD has been? It's divided the market, few developers in the large scale support it, there is no demand in the big picture (for either format, admittedly). It requires a $200 layout by people who have already dropped $400 on a game system, thereby making it just as, if not more expensive than the standalone it replaces. The peopel who have it have to make a concious effort to obtain it, and requires the purchase of 2 seperate devices while PS3 owners do not. The ONLY accessories that succeed in the gaming world are the ones bundled with the game (N64 RAM upgrade, DDR pads, Guitar Hero controller etc)

That's why the 360 addon is not a factor in the big picture while PS3 certainly is.

The interesting view that I did not expect is that they fear Microsoft. Some believe Microsoft only cares about Microsoft and they may harm the studios in the process if HD-DVD wins. I also heard that Apple is pushing Blu-Ray behind the scenes.

I don't think they want to be beholden and put in a position of power a company that has proven time and again that they dominate and strongarm the markets they choose to enter. Have you ever heard someone in the music buis speak off the record about iTunes? Not only are the artist royalties from it a pittance compared to CDs, but so is what the lables take in. Apple will be smacked as soon as there is a viable alternative, but personally I wouldn't be looking to Microsoft to save me, it's more like when your credit card company gets bought up by the giant conglomerate. "Congrats! You now have a XXX MasterCard! your old one is useless now BTW, and you love us no matter what, because you can't function in society without a credit card"

The black isn't "wrong", it's set to Japanese standard IRE 0 for black. US is IRE 7...

Unfortunately, no one I work for has a Japanese standard TV.

I calibrate home theater systems around the country (East Coast, West Coast, Mid West, South...). I see up to 12 systems a week. Many of my clients are associated with the movie or CE industry. I also meet people in the industry when I am at various locations either by invitation or for training purposes.


thanks.

Unfortunately, no one I work for has a Japanese standard TV.

That's OK, you just calibrate around it

That's OK, you just calibrate around it

You can't do that. A single input and resolution can have only a single level setting unless you calibrate a different picture mode which is a major hassel.

You can't do that. A single input and resolution can have only a single level setting unless you calibrate a different picture mode which is a major hassel.

FWIW I have had multiple settings on my Panny 8UK plasma that I had calibrated previously and does not look like a major hassle on the Pio FHD-1 either :confused: Am I missing something??

FWIW I have had multiple settings on my Panny 8UK plasma that I had calibrated previously and does not look like a major hassle on the Pio FHD-1 either :confused: Am I missing something??

Maybe not for you, but many people do not like to have to switch picture modes. It all depends on your competence level. In the real world the bar is fairly low for these kinds of things.

With some displays the other picture modes are also wrong which is another problem with this strategy.

The ONLY accessories that succeed in the gaming world are the ones bundled with the game (N64 RAM upgrade, DDR pads, Guitar Hero controller etc)

That's why the 360 addon is not a factor in the big picture while PS3 certainly is.

That is a huge reach, but from reading this board typical of the PS3 zealots.

The 360 addon is a no brainer add-on for folks looking to get into HD that already have a 360 and HDTV, but don't want to drop a grand on a player.

Once again I cite 20 years of game system addon precident. Furthering that is the fact that my local Gamestop has 0 HD-DVD movies in stock, but they are carrying about 10 BR titles. If the biggest video game retailer(exclusive one that is) isn't carrying the HD-DVD stuff, then the units are obviously not moving for them. The movies also didn't show up till at least a week after launch of PS3.


Gamestop doesn't have any in stock because they're like my stores, waiting on more units. We sold 2,000 units. Every game stop in town also sold out. I'm guessing they got about the same number we did. That would be 9,000 units sold. I'm friends with a local manager at one of their stores and he said the same thing "Can't keep them in stock."

Best Buy has trouble keeping them in stock.

The rep at MS told me they have sold extremely well. The OP you replied to looks to be right. By the time 2007 rolls around, the market will be even in units.

However the Software sales continue at the absurd ratios that people refused to believe on here, because the official number was 3:1 for ALL HD content (DVHS, etc).

HD-DVD was winning before PS3, and so far looks to be continuing.

Amazon is actually a very good guage.

The nonsense about Amazon being used by dual format owners is nonsense. The top BD is Superman Returns, the top HD-DVD is Superman Returns. Both are in the top 1000.

Scientifically if the Amazon site was truly so fickle and easy to manipulate then BD would one day at least surpass HD-DVD. That has yet to happen. To me that means that HD-DVD is just as strong a seller as everyone says it is in comparison to BD only. Overall sales have been worse than expected.

My store has sold over 3,000 HD-DVD units. We've sold about 700 BD units.

Of course, our customers are biased. They generally pay for the less expensive unit.

However the Software sales continue at the absurd ratios that people refused to believe on here, because the official number was 3:1 for ALL HD content (DVHS, etc).

No, their number was less than 3:1 and it was for comparing to Blu-ray. If they could have given a number that was 5:1 or 10:1: or 15:1 against their only competitor with mindshare and marketing, they would have done so.

They did not because they could not.

/carmi

Gamestop doesn't have any in stock because they're like my stores, waiting on more units. We sold 2,000 units. Every game stop in town also sold out. I'm guessing they got about the same number we did. That would be 9,000 units sold. I'm friends with a local manager at one of their stores and he said the same thing "Can't keep them in stock."


I'm talking about HD-DVD MOVIES, not the addon.

Do you manage a Gamestop? I'm guessing not since you're talking dedicated decks. I seriously doubt that they got more than a couple per store, but you're free to call them and ask

I'm talking about HD-DVD MOVIES, not the addon.

Do you manage a Gamestop? I'm guessing not since you're talking dedicated decks. I seriously doubt that they got more than a couple per store, but you're free to call them and ask
Some of the larger EB Games got more than that. Then there's Best Buy here who was getting 60 at a time.

I also heard that Apple is pushing Blu-Ray behind the scenes.
Apple has been quite up front with their support of Blu-ray actually. Jobs said it publicly.

Ironically, they seem to be supporting both at least partially at a practical level in terms of software.

Gamestop doesn't have any in stock because they're like my stores, waiting on more units. We sold 2,000 units. Every game stop in town also sold out. I'm guessing they got about the same number we did.

Since you made the statement, I figured I would entertain myself while my friend was getting her radiation treatments. I called 134 Game Stop, EB Toys and Babage locations in the Chicago area (I also asked about Wii and Playstation 3 consoles, so I did have an ulterior motive ;-) ). Every one of them told the same story. The most any got was 2 units, the most any sold was 4 units. Several had units in stock this morning, but they were taken back to be sent to stores that had sold their allotment and needed more. I cannot guarantee I did my math right (I marked 0, 1, 2, 3 and 4 although I might have miss marked a few), but as far as I can tell, they have sold about 350 in the entire Chicagoland area.

I did score one more 20GB Playstation 3 (now a 160GB Playstation 3, bringing to 4 the number of valueless 20GB drives that I have).

/carmi

I'm talking about HD-DVD MOVIES, not the addon.

I am not sure if it is a corporate thing or is true on a store by store basis, but the Game Stop, EB Toys and Babbage's locations in the Chicagoland area carry Blu-ray movies but do not carry HD DVD movies.

/carmi

I wanted to try out my ps3's bluray capability but then i realized i had no dedicated remote...only a ps3 controller... i REALLY don't like using a controller as a remote...call me old fashioned.

My 360 add on came with a remote (as did the 360 itself), and that made me very happy as a consumer.

also, i live in a college town, and i have not been able to find a 360 add-on anywhere.

My 360 add on came with a remote (as did the 360 itself), and that made me very happy as a consumer.

Your Xbox 360 came with a remote? Interesting, not listed as a component of either Xbox 360, or Xbox 360 Core system.

/carmi

It was a launch system item, you also got a headset for use on Live, but only for the first few months of release

We sold 2,000 unit/My store has sold over 3,000 HD-DVD units. .

Which one is it?????

- I am seeing at least 20 to 1 HD-DVD to Blu-Ray players in peoples homes at this point.

- Many of my clients are purchasing the HD-DVD add-on for their XBOX 360.

- I have started to see some excitement from clients over PS3. One actually had it, but was selling it on Ebay.

- Many people find the current Blu-Ray price point too high.



I travel a lot and from what I see my ratio is more like 50 to 1. That one family who has it got the Samsung. These people I will categorize as casual enthusiasts.

When someone buys the add-on you know that they will purchase a HD DVD movie unlike the PS3. They buy this to play games and to sell the unit to Ebay.

For now until the end of the holiday the PS3 are investments meant to be sold for profit.

Price of the hardware is a big reason why Blu ray players (not PS3) are having a hard time getting into homes of people outside AVS or first adopters. Some people still think that price is not an issue (Blu ray fanboys still think this is irrelevant. Just check the other threads). They can't fathom the idea that 1K for a movie player is luxury item not many can afford. Now that the XBOX 360 add-on can be used on a PC and as soon as the software players comes out, watching these movies in HD is now a possibility at an affordable price.

Your Xbox 360 came with a remote? Interesting, not listed as a component of either Xbox 360, or Xbox 360 Core system.

/carmi

The XBOX360 came with a mini remote as a limited time offer when the system launched.

I believe Virgin Megastore reported that HD DVD was outselling BD by between 4:1 and 3:1, even after the PS3 release. There is thread on the forum with a link to the article.....
D'ya have a linky for that? Can't seem to be able to find it. Thanks!

It was on one of the threads discussing HD DVD v. BD sales. When I'm on my computer I can try.....

Apple has been quite up front with their support of Blu-ray actually. Jobs said it publicly.

While they've been providing (albeit limited) HD DVD authoring and playback for a year and a half...

Apple has been quite up front with their support of Blu-ray actually. Jobs said it publicly.While they've been providing (albeit limited) HD DVD authoring and playback for a year and a half...Yes, hence my next line...
Ironically, they seem to be supporting both at least partially at a practical level in terms of software.;)

Personally I see Apple pushing Blu-ray drives initially, but overall being relatively platform agnostic. FWIW, my Xbox 360 HD DVD drive is recognized on my Mac just fine, not surprisingly.

The interesting view that I did not expect is that they fear Microsoft. Some believe Microsoft only cares about Microsoft and they may harm the studios in the process if HD-DVD wins. I also heard that Apple is pushing Blu-Ray behind the scenes.

The view you express is probably more common with the other CE manufacturers.
I think folks like Sun are doing their very best to encourage this.

Having the best PQ available doesn't hurt any studios, IMO.

I think you hit it right on the head. I own both, and don't have a single BD that is also available on HD DVD yet. On the other hand, I have half a dozen or so HD DVD titles that are now available on BD. Why? Because I already had the HD DVD by the time the BD was released. The only exception was Lake House. They released at the same time, and I had intended to get the BD as it was cheaper than the HD DVD combo disc, but the BD was out of stock and the HD DVD was sitting there.

Truthfully, I would buy the BD over the HD more often if they were out first. Even though the picture is often slightly better on the HD, the HD-A1 is still a tempermental, frustrating machine. I'd sacrifice a bit of playback quality for the ease of my BD player.
i dont get it if the pq and aq is better with hddvd ,then why own a bd player,the players are cheaper and you get more bang for your buck.if hd kepts up the pace there going bd only studios will go the other way they have too.....money.

i dont get it if the pq and aq is better with hddvd ,then why own a bd player,the players are cheaper and you get more bang for your buck.if hd kepts up the pace there going bd only studios will go the other way they have too.....money.

That's the goal. If HD DVD sells 2 million players this year that makes it pretty hard to stay neutral with a straight face for studios. Even Universal will have to explain why they are'n't attacking millions of PS3 with content offerings.

That's the goal. If HD DVD sells 2 million players this year that makes it pretty hard to stay neutral with a straight face for studios. Even Universal will have to explain why they are'n't attacking millions of PS3 with content offerings.

not when there will be 10-20 million blu-ray players in people's homes. the pressure will be solely on universal. it won't be long before they crack.

not when there will be 10-20 million blu-ray players in people's homes. the pressure will be solely on universal. it won't be long before they crack.


and we dont care, as long as the provide titles in hd dvd, that is enough, its good for the consumer anyway. The only negative that would come out from that would be solely from BDA. you guess what that is !! :rolleyes:

not when there will be 10-20 million blu-ray players in people's homes. the pressure will be solely on universal. it won't be long before they crack.

I don't think the Twilight Zone is still making new episodes, and in any case, I don't think their writers are going to see your work here. :rolleyes:

Seriously though:

I would hope that one format would emerge before 2010 when 10-20 million blu-ray players have been sold. At their price point, I don't see 10-20 million units being sold anytime soon, especially with lackluster PS3 sales. Manufactured maybe, but not sold.

Maybe the BDA needs to work a deal with Toyota or something to include them in the Camry. :D

not when there will be 10-20 million blu-ray players in people's homes. the pressure will be solely on universal. it won't be long before they crack.

Sorry, won't happen anytime soon. One, the only Bluray player moving any volume is the PS3 (they almost might as not make the others by comaprison). Regarding the PS3, first Sony said 4 million PS3's worldwide by the end of 2006. Then it changed that to 2 million. Then the end of 2006 came, and they missed that number. They just shipped their 2 millionth unit this week (and that means fewer than 2 million sold worldwide). Now Sony predicts 6 million units shipped by the end of March, which isn't realistic (their current sales levels would need to double, when they actually appear to be decreasing, not increasing).

Finally, for the 1 year mark, Sony originally predicted 20 million PS3's at 1 year. When they downgraded from 4 million to 2 million for the end of 2006, they also downgraded from 20 million to 16 million at the 1 year mark. This indicated they already were starting to relize that they either estimated too high, or supply problem would continue beyond 2006. Now, analysts in Japan are downgrading Sony's estimates of 16 million consoles in 1 year to 10 million consoles in in 1 year.

Do you see the trend? Sony and 3rd party analysts keep trending down their estimated PS3 sales at every milestone. Most analysts predict 4 million units by the end of March, which is 2 million shy of Sony's estimates. So in March, expect Sony to come back with a new estimate that is once again lower than its previous estimates.

I predict that it will be January 2008 before Sony even has a shot at 10 million BD players in circulation (if you count every PS3 as a BD player). To get to the 20 million player mark, I think you would be talking sometime in 2010 or 2011.

By this time, I think every studio will be neutral, or the format war will be over and a winner declared.

There will not be 10-20 million BD players in homes. You're basing off of future PS3 sales. Not going to happen. The 360 sold 4.5 million in the US since launch. So their will probably be more than 3 million BD players from PS3, which will be over 90%. I'd say they top out at maybe 3.25 million by years end simply because of price. Early backlash supports this.

In the end, I'm fairly certain that even the 3.25 million PS3s will dwarf what's sold as far as the HD DVD add-on and the standalone players for HD DVD. But does that mean the public will buy BDs? I don't know. The calling of Sony, Fox, and Disney titles will be strong when they release, and I think they will since, IMO despite what they've said, Sony knows it has a fight on its hands.

Remember, the PSP has sold plenty of units, but the UMD is another dead movie format. People are reluctant on Sony for formats. They don't want to back another abandoned Sony format. Though, to be fair, BD is probably the most likely of any Sony format to succeed. I have a hard time comparing BD to Betamax, Divx, UMD, or any other failed format simply because the support for BD has shown tremendous improvement. Frankly though, neither format is going to dent anything as far as sales go. I still think the PS3 is the trojan horse, especially with so many hardcore gamers upgrading to HDTVs recently.

Me? I'm boycotting BD, HD DVD, and DVD until a clear winner emerges or I can get a standalone deck that does both equally for $500 or less.

By the end of 2007, there'll be at least 10 million Blu-ray players installed world wide. That's a conservative estimate. Probably more like 15 million. I'm sorry but the war is just over.

By the end of 2007, there'll be at least 10 million Blu-ray players installed world wide. That's a conservative estimate. Probably more like 15 million. I'm sorry but the war is just over.
ROTFLMAO - if that's the PS3 it ain't going to happen. If they crack 4 million by the end of '07 I'd be suprised. IF Sony drops the price $100 maybe but until then it will be what it is now - a nice floor decoration @ the retailer.

By the end of 2007, there'll be at least 10 million Blu-ray players installed world wide. That's a conservative estimate. Probably more like 15 million. I'm sorry but the war is just over.

Do you honestly believe that, or are you just trying to get a rise out of people? Has any one seen/heard of a trend to indicate that? Has any one not noticed the exact opposite? There have been several reports of lackluster PS3 sales. It sounds like they haven't met production estimates and there are still reports of stock not moving.

http://www.vgcharts.org/

2 Months of sales, in 2 out of 3 territories, with very few games available. over 1.5 million units sold.

over the next 11 months, with a release in a third major territory, and tons of great games and movies, you really think they arent gonna hit at least 10 million? what are you smokin?

hell, if they drop the price a hundred bucks they'll blow by 10 million before october.

ROTFLMAO - if that's the PS3 it ain't going to happen. If they crack 4 million by the end of '07 I'd be suprised. IF Sony drops the price $100 maybe but until then it will be what it is now - a nice floor decoration @ the retailer.


Are you really that ignorant? Its only January and Sony already shipped 2 million units in just TWO regions. This is without blockbuster games and blu-ray movies. Four million units world-wide is an afterthought when the PS3 is available everywhere.

I don't know about 10 million world wide. I'm betting more like 7-8 million world wide.

That said, that's a hell of a lot of Blu-ray players.

Yeah, sure

IF those numbers are correct you can balance the Euro market with Holidays - the biggest sales numbers. Add in the "dead summer" sales, lack of exclusive content, and what does it spell? About 4 million by the end of the year & a solid 3rd place finish. But even at that it's a lot of BD players, HD-DVD would need a pretty low price to get there.

Yeah, sure

IF those numbers are correct you can balance the Euro market with Holidays - the biggest sales numbers. Add in the "dead summer" sales, lack of exclusive content, and what does it spell? About 4 million by the end of the year & a solid 3rd place finish. But even at that it's a lot of BD players, HD-DVD would need a pretty low price to get there.

hahahah lol they're gonna hit 4 million by mid march at the latest. I guess you're counting on them not selling any more units for the rest of the year. Good luck with that!

8 million world wide is a good number at the $499/$599 price points, IMO.

It'll be tough to swing 10 million world wide with the Wii in Japan and the 360 and Wii in the US...Europe is a wild card. They love all three, but have traditionally been Sony land. Add in the negative backlash, and there's the 2 million lost sales at that pricepoint.

8 million at mostly $599? Sony'll take that to the bank and watch Blu-ray win. That is A LOT of BD players.

8 million world wide is a good number at the $499/$599 price points, IMO.

It'll be tough to swing 10 million world wide with the Wii in Japan and the 360 and Wii in the US...Europe is a wild card. They love all three, but have traditionally been Sony land. Add in the negative backlash, and there's the 2 million lost sales at that pricepoint.

8 million at mostly $599? Sony'll take that to the bank and watch Blu-ray win. That is A LOT of BD players.
8M sold x $200 loss per machine = $1.68B loss. :eek:

Are you really that ignorant? Its only January and Sony already shipped 2 million units in just TWO regions. This is without blockbuster games and blu-ray movies. Four million units world-wide is an afterthought when the PS3 is available everywhere.

No need to be touchy. Even when blu-ray fails as a movie format, they'll still be more games coming. Maybe not as many as for the XBOX 360, but some. :D

Are you really that ignorant? Its only January and Sony already shipped 2 million units in just TWO regions. This is without blockbuster games and blu-ray movies. Four million units world-wide is an afterthought when the PS3 is available everywhere.
Just ingnorant enough to believe that the price it too high, content is lacking, and sales are the proof. Bad news spreads fast - sluggish sales lead to questions = still less sales..................

I'll bet there are meetings going on right now where the topic is "ruh-roh, what's going on here".

hahahah lol they're gonna hit 4 million by mid march at the latest. I guess you're counting on them not selling any more units for the rest of the year. Good luck with that
They'll be lucky to ship 4 million by March let alone sell. Yes, I know Sony loves the shipped number, keeps a good spin on it.

No need to be touchy. Even when blu-ray fails as a movie format, they'll still be more games coming. Maybe not as many as for the XBOX 360, but some.
Ssssssshhhh, don't say that............they'd get real upset if they took a look @ what the PS3's architecture is really designed for :D

8M sold x $200 loss per machine = $1.68B loss. :eek:

in reality, they're probably closer to breaking even on units sold. that analysis that came out a couple months ago by that external firm used highly inflated prices, considering sony manufactures most of the parts themselves.

BOM rapidly decreases with volume shipped. Once you cross a million units, the cost of the materials to build your box goes down very quickly as suppliers find ways to also cut their costs, and they become motivated to keep their design win and not get replaced by other cheaper commodity components.

While the current shipping consoles may not break even today (just a guess), break even point is not far off. Probably once you cross 4M, on paper profits is very likely (just based on PS, PS2, X360 history).

in reality, they're probably closer to breaking even on units sold. that analysis that came out a couple months ago by that external firm used highly inflated prices, considering sony manufactures most of the parts themselves.
This is very true. If you consider that the prices of hdd used in that analysis was significantly higher than what we as end consumers pay for retail from a store.

But they are always subsidizing these game console things, so I doubt they are at break even point yet.

in reality, they're probably closer to breaking even on units sold. that analysis that came out a couple months ago by that external firm used highly inflated prices, considering sony manufactures most of the parts themselves.
When Kazuo Hirai, President of Sony Computer Entertainment America, was interviewed on CNBC, Bill Griffith asked him about those numbers, and Kaz did not confirm or deny those numbers. He did acknowledge that they are selling the boxes for a loss and that they don't expect to break even for at least a couple years. And this was when they were saying they would have 2m boxes shipped by end of 2006. It's all part of the plan.

That tells me that the numbers are more true than not.

By the end of 2007, there'll be at least 10 million Blu-ray players installed world wide. That's a conservative estimate. Probably more like 15 million. I'm sorry but the war is just over.


LOL I am going to take note of this troll post and lets check back Dec 31, 2007 with real SALES numbers from a 3rd party. I hope that you are planning on buying a PS3 for every room in your house yourself along with every other rabid fanboy who make up the "ulready purchased" group of PS3 owners.

in reality, they're probably closer to breaking even on units sold. that analysis that came out a couple months ago by that external firm used highly inflated prices, considering sony manufactures most of the parts themselves.

The CEO of Sony North America said the units won't be breaking even until the end of 2007/beginning 2008. While the loss will gradually decrease as the year passes it will still be 100's of millions of dollars, if not a billion.

The CEO of Sony North America said the units won't be breaking even until the end of 2007/beginning 2008. While the loss will gradually decrease as the year passes it will still be 100's of millions of dollars, if not a billion.
True, but $5 /unit is a big difference from $200 per unit (which in hindsight never made any sense unless you are doing runs of only 10K/month).

I remember when I saw the PS3 cost breakdown, I chuckled when I looked up that HDD street price and realized that the estimate was even higher than the stores I go to to pickup HDDs from as an end customer. (Let alone pricewatch.com - which is even lower).

The cost pundits whether doing the breakdowns for 360 or ps3 or HD-A1 generally appear to lack even basic google or pricewatch.com research capability.

I think some HD DVD fans are really underestimating the success of PS3. In gaming circles, the more rational people understand that it has been a tremendous seller. Selling way more than the 360 did during its launch. Due to hardware shortages, we have no idea if the 360 would've reached saturation as early as the PS3. It might have. To date, Sony has sold PS3s faster than either the PS1 or PS2. I actually admire the fact that Sony is keeping units on shelves, regardless of them sitting, they still flooded the market at the end of Dec. That's something that MS didn't/couldn't do with 360. Thankfully I randomly caught a shipment in Dec. at a Target.

The reason PS3 isn't selling like hotcakes is Sony negative PR and a lack of games. In six months this isn't going to be the case. Sony's going to pour firmware updates into it like the PSP to make it a more complete machine and good games will come. I don't expect 360-like numbers this year due to price, but the PS3 is going to sell pretty well and get some great titles as far as games.

I sound like a Sony fanboy. I'll post pics sometime of my setup and games to show that in fact, I own about 90% Xbox with only 4 games on PS2. I bought my PS2 last year.

The reason PS3 isn't selling like hotcakes is Sony negative PR and a lack of games. .

Also, another reason is the lack of 20gb systems. With HDMI, the reason to spend $100 more on the 60gb is not worth it in many people's eyes. I think Sony miscalculated the demand on the 20gb. IMO, the best thing they could do right now, is phase the 20gb out and sell the 60gb for $499.

Hey mods. Quick question. I know that I haven't posted much, but is there a way to modify everyones user account such that if you've been registered less than 6 months or so, that there is a button on your posts. And if move than 10 people click on that button, your post is deleted. It may help with people signing up with an account, making inflamatory posts until their user name is well known, then signing up for a new account. And perhaps something similar for starting threads as well? Just a thought.

Was that directed at me?

Sony will sell over 10 million ps3's by the end of 2007, bank on it.

MS has sold approx. 7.5 million 360's by the end of 2006 with 1 A+ title, but they shipped over 10 million world wide.

Nintendo will sell the most hardware for 2007 and after that...I'm not too sure how they'll do. Once sales start to fall, Nintendo will release the Wii in black and other colors to drive demand for another year + their redesigned wiimote with built in rechargable battery.

What I'm interested in is how well the third party games do on the Wii. With some stores selling some Wii games for $20 off so soon, I think one publisher over estimated the demand for their games.

Not you inparticular. Especially since we're not in the hd-dvd forum. But I've noticed a lot of the posts that get people going are from newcomers or people with new accounts.

Sony will sell over 10 million ps3's by the end of 2007, bank on it. Not even a chance, IMO.

MS has sold approx. 7.5 million 360's by the end of 2006 with 1 A+ title, but they shipped over 10 million world wide.Actually, they sold closer to 9 million (about 8.5).

Nintendo will sell the most hardware for 2007 and after that...I'm not too sure how they'll do. Once sales start to fall, Nintendo will release the Wii in black and other colors to drive demand for another year + their redesigned wiimote with built in rechargable battery.

What I'm interested in is how well the third party games do on the Wii. With some stores selling some Wii games for $20 off so soon, I think one publisher over estimated the demand for their games.Wii will prosper on low cost and more mass, this includes the games.

The factor you're perhaps leaving out is that the Xbox will become more pirce competitive during 2007 and take market share from both the PS3 and the Wii.

We can agrue the number for PS3 sales all we want.......but...even at the lowest it's still a LOT of units when compared to the number of HD-DVD units.

What impact it will have on formats only time will tell.

Not you inparticular. Especially since we're not in the hd-dvd forum. But I've noticed a lot of the posts that get people going are from newcomers or people with new accounts.

Understandable. I try to remain neutral since I haven't bought into either one. I want to buy into HD DVD, but I'm a "content is king" type of person and own a lot of DVDs from Fox, Disney, and Sony that I want to upgrade to HD. Universal? Not so much. Jurassic Park and King Kong...that's about it. I love New Line and Warners too, but they don't enter into the equation since they're neutral.

I, like many, are leery of Sony formats. I've never backed a Sony-backed format, so haven't had the displeasure of having a pricey doorstop after Sony pulls support. Well, unless you count the PSP, but I never bought a UMD movie.

But I've noticed a lot of the posts that get people going are from newcomers or people with new accounts.

Hmmm... many of those I'd suspect are the fanboys on both sides who want to make it seem like it's coming from a fresh face or neutral party.

I plugged all the PS3 trends into my computer and I get an official projection of 666,666,666 units sold this year. By next year, this will be 666,666,666,666. I dare anyone to argue with these facts. :p

I think some HD DVD fans are really underestimating the success of PS3. In gaming circles, the more rational people understand that it has been a tremendous seller...

...The reason PS3 isn't selling like hotcakes is Sony negative PR and a lack of games....

...I sound like a Sony fanboy.

In one breath you declare the PS3 a temendous seller and an undersestimated success, and in the next breath you admit the PS3 isn't selling like hotcakes. So should we believe your first statement or your second one?
:)

^ My neutrality got in the way!

No, both are correct. It is a success in that it has sold faster than PS1 or PS2.

It isn't selling like the Wii (or hotcakes) because I can still walk in and find one anywhere for the most part.

Maybe a better phrase is "its not the unmitigated disaster that some make it out to be."

I agree Sony's name is mud right now, but there's a whole lot of hardcore gamers that bought it anyway, not to mention Sony fanboys. I'm a hardcore gamer myself, and though I tend to late-adopt Sony hardware having only had a PS2 for a year, I plan to pick up a PS2 20gb (if I can actually find one) simply because of BD movie content.

I'm gonna wait out HD DVD for now due to my own personal content issues, but my hope is that by the end of a year a true, HDi and J-BD supporting, less inexpensive stand-alone will drop. I genuinely believe this war is going the way of DVD+R and -R.

P.S. I notice you left the Sony fanboy comment in. I frequent the www.1up.com boards under a very similar user name. They know I am 100% behind the Xbox 360 as my primary game machine. Its probably my favorite machine other than the SNES...ever.

It looks like perhaps the Wii isn't selling as rapidly as Nintendo claims:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=22201

"There was a discrepancy between the number of Wii units claimed to have been shipped by Nintendo to North America - approximately 2 million - and the cumulative sell-through measured by NPD - approximately 1.1 million.

"This difference alone is almost impossible to reconcile," he added.

^
P.S. I notice you left the Sony fanboy comment in. I frequent the www.1up.com boards under a very similar user name. They know I am 100% behind the Xbox 360 as my primary game machine. Its probably my favorite machine other than the SNES...ever.


I was just joking around with you a little. Sometimes my jokes aren't very funny though, so that adds confusion :)

I was just joking around with you a little. Sometimes my jokes aren't very funny though, so that adds confusion :)
No problem.

not when there will be 10-20 million blu-ray players in people's homes. the pressure will be solely on universal. it won't be long before they crack.First PS3 has to beat 360 in sales. Hasn't happened yet. :rolleyes:. Let's face it; you mean 10-20 million PS3 players, not blu-ray.

PS3 Sales = 244,000 (http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2007-02-22T000841Z_01_N21355089_RTRIDST_0_VIDEOGAMES-SALES-UPDATE-1.XML&rpc=66&type=qcna) for January = 5 weeks. February will be very bleak for PS3. People (not me) will be calling for heads in March. And After 3/31 Sony financials, the PS3 will be an albatross, with billions in losses and very few sales.

First PS3 has to beat 360 in sales. Hasn't happened yet. How does it relate to HD disc media? The sales of 360 HD DVD drive are negligible right now.

How does it relate to HD disc media? The sales of 360 HD DVD drive are negligible right now.

And almost all projections point to PS3 beating XBox 360 in very near future. Microsoft already had to lower sales projections of the 360 by 2 million units!

PS. I think the hd-dvd add-ons account for up to 50% of all hd-dvd "player" sales so it's not negligible....however, it is pretty small compared to PS3 sales. my brother has one (got it very discounted using a circuit city coupon (?)) but has so far only bought 2 hd-dvd titles in several months.

First PS3 has to beat 360 in sales. Hasn't happened yet.
How does it relate to HD disc media? The sales of 360 HD DVD drive are negligible right now.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37771

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37773

If the PS3 fails Blu-ray fails

February will be very bleak for PS3. People (not me) will be calling for heads in March. And After 3/31 Sony financials, the PS3 will be an albatross, with billions in losses and very few sales.

You DO know that's usually the case with game console launches right? The hardware is used as a loss leader for software sales.

And selling almost as many units as the Xbox 360 when the PS3 has no games to speak of right now and a price that is significantly more seems pretty ok...when the games come, well, you see what happened in japan: the sales of PS3 started rising and the PS3 games started cracking the top 10 (with virtua fighter going to #1).

meanwhile, the xbox360 sales dropped precipitously

http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=3763

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37771

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37773

If the PS3 fails Blu-ray fails

Too bad for HD-DVD it looks like the PS3 is going to be a success. It's actually selling better than the PS2 when that console first launched!

meanwhile, the xbox360 sales dropped precipitously

http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=3763

...uh..in Japan...

http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=3763

...uh..in Japan...

No kidding...didn't i say that?

The PS3 is doing about as well as Xbox 360 here (even without games, which obviously is a temporary condition), while the Xbox 360 is getting its behind kicked like crazy over there.

You DO know that's usually the case with game console launches right? The hardware is used as a loss leader for software sales.

And selling almost as many units as the Xbox 360 when the PS3 has no games to speak of right now and a price that is significantly more seems pretty ok...when the games come, well, you see what happened in japan: the sales of PS3 started rising and the PS3 games started cracking the top 10 (with virtua fighter going to #1).

meanwhile, the xbox360 sales dropped precipitously

http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=3763


Most people assumed there would be pent-up demand for the PS3. Most thought they could sell the first 1Mill as quick as they could make them. Not many people thought Sony could have their supply problems fixed in December, have PS3's on the shelves in January, with this few units sold. I honestly had no idea pentup demand was so small for the PS3.

People knew 360 has no more pentup demand. The 360 sales are what they are, a normal level for a product that's over a year old. I had assumed PS3 sales would show a strong demand at first before it moved into a 360-like sales pattern.

Most people assumed there would be pent-up demand for the PS3. Most thought they could sell the first 1Mill as quick as they could make them. Not many people thought Sony could have their supply problems fixed in December, have PS3's on the shelves in January, with this few units sold. I honestly had no idea pentup demand was so small for the PS3.

People knew 360 has no more pentup demand. The 360 sales are what they are, a normal level for a product that's over a year old. I had assumed PS3 sales would show a strong demand at first before it moved into a 360-like sales pattern.

At that price point and with NO games? What, you think people are stupid?

In Japan, PS3 sales FELL after launch because of the price and the no games factor, but it has now recovered and sales are increasing after the launch of one the better games.

I expect PS3 sales to steady and then rise as better games come into the flow.

It won't be the blockbuster that Sony thought it would be (it amazes me sometimes how stooopid executives can be) because of the cost, but it'll still sell more than its competitors anyways worldwide in the long run (esp if some price cuts are done and Sony can lower manufacturing costs by outsourcing)....

In Japan, PS3 sales FELL after launch because of the price and the no games factor, but it has now recovered and sales are increasing after the launch of one the better games.

Dec 4 - Dec 10
50,171

Dec 11 - 17
70,942

Dec 18 - 24
76,882

Dec 25 - 31
71,727

Jan 1-7
69,944

Jan 8-15
25,531

Jan-16-21
21,105

Jan-22-28
19,996

Jan 28- Feb 4
18,727

Feb-5-11
23,431

Feb-12-19
20,676

This does not look like a recovery to me.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/graphs/top100-1-1-recent30.jpg

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/graphs/top100-1-1-recent30.jpg

You're gonna need a bigger chart. :D

I see a lot of gloating from fanboys, but it just looks like amazon is seriously over stocked and had to clear a lot of bluray inventory they thought they would be shifting normally. I get the feeling they were expecting bluray to perform much better under normal pricing conditions, not simply track along with hd-dvd.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/graphs/quantity-1-1-recent30.jpg

Uh, so the suddenly double stock and are disappointed it doesn't sellout in two weeks.? No, I believe you are the one stretching.

Does anyone know how Amazon's stock management system works? I'd imagine it would be a JIT system given it's an strict online retailer.

it'll still sell more than its competitors anyways worldwide in the long run

Not a chance in Hell. It won't even catch up with the 360 at its current pace. They've already lost Japan to Nintendo.

Dragon Quest IX is a freakin' DS exclusive for Christ's sake.

well, you see what happened in japan: the sales of PS3 started rising and the PS3 games started cracking the top 10 (with virtua fighter going to #1).

VF5 also dropped to number 25 the following week and is now out of the top 30. Its first week saw 46k copies sold which is not impressive by any stretch of the imagination when Wii Sports and Wii Play didn't dip below 50k for their first 8 weeks. The PS3 is cheaper in Japan, too, by the way. They received a $100 price drop just a month before launch in order to try and boost sales. That worked really well, no?

296,000 Wiis sold in February to 85,000 PS3s says no.

bump

Dec 4 - Dec 10
50,171

Dec 11 - 17
70,942

Dec 18 - 24
76,882

Dec 25 - 31
71,727

Jan 1-7
69,944

Jan 8-15
25,531

Jan-16-21
21,105

Jan-22-28
19,996

Jan 28- Feb 4
18,727

Feb-5-11
23,431

Feb-12-19
20,676

This does not look like a recovery to me.

Oo yea, look at that HUGE recovery :D

Oo yea, look at that HUGE recovery :D

you do know know the concept of a "holiday season" uplift on sales right?

you do know know the concept of a "holiday season" uplift on sales right?

ASJ you have an answer for everything, and frankly, you need to get out more :D

"Uplift" give me a break. It sells or it does not, dont care why.