EDIT: To avoid confusion for those reading this thread for the first time (I still get PMs occasionally), Sony upgraded me to a full 1080P XBR2 after I got the green blob. So while I have no more info to share on the XBR1, other members here may be able to help you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've had my Sony 60" SXRD XBR1 set for about 6 months now, and I've posted my PS2 lag problems and acceptable resolutions in these posts from other threads:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7794320#post7794320
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7834372&&#post7834372
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7841059&&#post7841059
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7838384#post7838384

I now have the PS3 and want to discuss how the new console works with the SXRD XBR1 when it comes to lag, visual output quality, and any other related concerns. Perhaps other PS3 owners (or XBox 360 owners) with the same TV can give some additional input.

Here's what I've done so far on my PS3. Nothing I'll post is scientific or done with measuring tools. I'm just an average joeblow with good instincts for how video games, particularly at 60fps, should feel. Here's what I've noticed so far, everything through HDMI:

PS3 blu-ray movies: I have Mission Impossible 3 and Monster House... they each play, look and sound incredible on the XBR1 set to 1080i. My family members were equally in awe... for the average movie watcher, there are no issues there at all, period.


PS2/PS1 games: As many of you know, the PS3 will put all of these older games at 480P instead of their natural 480i (games that can do more like GT4 can be set higher). For me so far, so good when it comes to how the games 'feel'. If there is lag, it is not significant so far based on my tests, but I'll keep at it. Here are some titles I tried and the settings:

Contra: Shattered Soldier - This game is a 60 fps side scrolling shoot'em up and ran great. It is 100% twitch reflex based, so it'd be easy to notice a delay in ducking/jumping, etc. I highly recommend the game BTW for old-school Contra fiends.

Beatmania - This game is a 60 fps rhythm music game (keyboard and turntable). I can't figure out how to get the special controller to work on the PS3 right now (I have an old USB converter that doesn't do it). Stuck with only the control pad, I had to re-teach myself the buttons before I could complete a song.

Once I got the hang of where the new button presses were, I was knocking out the 'Perfects' just fine on songs of medium difficulty. I'm no expert BM player, but as far as I can tell it is playing fine on the XBR1 through the PS3.

Tekken Tag Tournament - An oldie but a goodie, this a 60 fps 1v1 tag fighting game. I've been playing hardcore competitive Tekken for 10 years, so this series is perfect for me to test with. It is very particular about lag since some inputs require you to do motions on the controller very precisely with very little frames available for error if it's slow. Jin's Electric Wind Godfist is an example, which requires one to input forward, neutral, down, and down-forward in one fluid motion within 1/10th of a second. No problems there.

I also played vs. the CPU in Practice mode, which is notorious for being throw happy. Choosing Julia Chang as my opponent, I was able to time my reflexes for breaking her Mad Axes throw whenever I saw it coming. Once Mad Axes connects with your character, you have 1/12th of a second (it has only five escape frames) to recognize it and press both punch buttons to get out of it or you will be tossed. If there was any significant lag, I would definitely feel it trying to break that throw but I was routinely successful.

Tekken 5 - This upgraded Tekken game allows you to set the visual out put to 16x9 in Progressive mode for a natural 480P. I turned these settings on and practiced doing some more EWGFs with Mishimas... no problem. I also tried do some crouch cancel combos with Lei, which also require frame-specific inputs to be successful. For any Tekken players out there, the combo starts in Back Turned and then do this: BK d+1, d+2, f~f+1, Razor Rushx4~Tiger Stance, TGS 4. I was able to do this flawlessly even though there's no room for error when you transition from d+2 to f~f+1.

So as far as I can tell, with PS2 games there is no significant lag on this TV when running through the PS3.


PS3 games: I've played my PS3 almost non-stop since launch day. Here's how each game "felt" to me on the SXRD XBR1:

F1 Championship demo, Resistance demo, Motorstorm demo: All of these games run natively at 720P max. IMPORTANT!!!! They will output at 480P on your TV if you don't manually set it to 720P. I was ignorantly at 1080i when I first played all of these and was a bit disappointed by the visuals. They improved after the 720P switch (especially Resistance), and now they look their best and all run at their programmed frame rate with no issues at all.

Blast Factor demo, Cash Guns Chaos demo, NBA 07 demo, Ridge Racer 7 full version, NBA 2K7 full version:
I have all of these games set to 1080i from the PS3 system menu. I verified the actual resolution once the game is running by clicking the 'Display' button on the SXRD's remote control.

Because of the nature of these types of games, I'm not able to run frame-specific tests like I was able to above. However, I still felt zero significant lag while playing. This is awesome because 1080i games, like 1080i movie playback, looks exactly the same as it would on a full 1080P XBR2. The thing I worried about was if there would be input lag, and so far I feel none. I'll test more when games requiring tighter inputs are released.

RR7 is a blast. I've played online and off, and the game is always running at amazing speeds. NBA '07 looks better than 2K7 at 1080i, and often runs smoother too (even at 720P). 2K7 is the better game so far, but the visuals of '07 are noteworthy.

I went to Cash Guns Chaos as the best test I could think of. It is an upgrade from the arcade classic game Smash TV where you run and shoot in all directions using both analogs. Once I cleared the first stage, I stayed in the empty room and used the digital buttons to test for lag. Pressing square or circle IMMEDIATELY shoots right or left, triangle or 'X' shoots up or down. No matter how lightly I pressed the buttons, it shot a bullet right away. The same is true for using the pad to move the character - it would take the smallest of tiny steps instantly upon pressing a directional button.

=====================================

As a gamer and movie watcher, all in all, I am extremely pleased with my PS3 and 60" SXRD XBR1 so far. I thought I'd regret not waiting for full 1080P because of potential lag issues, but so far there have not been even the smallest of problems. As more games come out, I'll continue to test for any lag that may affect PS3 game play on this television model. I'd appreciate anyone else's hands-on reports as well.

=====================================

**** 12/29/06 UPDATE ****

I've downloaded and tested the HK version of Tekken 5: DR, which was planned all along to be my ultimate test. I played it extensively on 480P, 720P and 1080i settings of the XBR1. I played it with thwe wireless Sixaxis controller, and I played it with a PS2 controller using a Radio Shack USB converter.

The conclusions are clear: there is definitely noticeable lag at 1080i. In general I can "feel" it while playing Tekken, but specifically there are certain combos I tried that barely worked 1 out of 20 tries in 1080i, but worked every time in 480P and 720P.

What that means is that the conversion from 1080i to 1080P for games that support 1080P takes enough time where your inputs fall behind the action on screen. This is different than display lag, or general frame rate sluggishness which does NOT occur as you can read in the rest of this thread. The frame rate for 1080i and 1080P games is the same, but input lag is indeed evident for a game that requires frame-accurate inputs at 1080P.

So in conclusion, you can play these fighters or rhythm games just fine at 720P or less on the SXRD XBR1. I can still attest to the fact that you won't notice it much playing "regular" games like GT:HD, where I have times that are 7 seconds off the world record holders playing in 1080P. If you want a pure 1080P gaming experience for all games however, this is not the TV to get.

=====================================

**** 1/6/06 UPDATE ****

Forget what I said in the last update... this TV works fine AFTER you adjust the settings. The trick is to either go with Direct Mode ON in HDMI mode, or going with Game Mode ON (with a lot of adjusting of your TV's display settings) with Component cables. With either of these two options used, you can get little to no perceptible input lag while still maintaining 60 fps in 1080P games. Read page 4 of the thread for more details; testing continues.

Thanks to Marc Alexander for the excellent suggestions.

Sweet. Thanks for the feedback as I'm in the shopping process and I'm considering the newer A200 series of your set. Good to hear you don't have lag issues on 480p games.

So the PS3 automatically plays every PS2 game at 480p now? If so that is an excellent bonus.

It makes older games 480P through HDMI only since it can't do 480i. You can set it at 480i via Component cables however. Next I'll test the input lag and visual quality using my PS2's component cables for everything I posted above.

ooo a fellow tekken geek on AVS. ^_^ Very nice post & analysis.

I always tested lag with Yoshi's flash (b+1+4). It has been the fastest move in the game for a while now @ 4 frames, but I think that changed in T5.

Anyway good to know PS3's 480p output of PS2 games makes the process lag free.

It makes older games 480P through HDMI only since it can't do 480i. You can set it at 480i via Component cables however. Next I'll test the input lag and visual quality using my PS2's component cables for everything I posted above.

Sweet, then that will be the way to go.

Oh and I'm a Tekken geek as well, but don't know all the technical stuff.. Just have always loved it since playing it back at the arcade.

OK, I just tested the Component connection a bit (Beatmania, Tekken 5, Cash Guns Chaos, NBA 07 demo). All of them look and play exactly the same as HDMI at 480P, 720P and 1080i. I was able to go 480i for the PS2 games of course, so there's that option if you want it. I'll try movies next.

BTW you can have your Component and HDMI cables connected to the PS3 and just select either one from the PS3's options (make sure you switch the Audio output as well). This way, no need to mess with cables switching.

Thanks Joe, I have a 60XBR1 and I'm patiently awaiting a call from Gamestop letting me know that my pre-ordered PS3 is here. I have an Xbox360 and it looks stunning on my Sony.

Thanks Joe, I have a 60XBR1 and I'm patiently awaiting a call from Gamestop letting me know that my pre-ordered PS3 is here. I have an Xbox360 and it looks stunning on my Sony.


Yes Ace.......Yes it does

This is awesome because 1080i games, like 1080i movie playback, looks exactly the same as it would on a full 1080P XBR2.
Um...not exactly. 24 FPS films likely look identical between the XBR1 and XBR2, but a true 1080p60 game will not look exactly the same on an XBR1 as on an XBR2. Use the search and you will find more details about the differences between 1080i60, 1080p24, and 1080p60 and 3:2 pulldown detection. The short is, 1080p24 can be converted to 1080i60 then to 1080p60 (movies on XBR1) but 1080p60 converted to 1080i60 can never be fully restored back to 1080p60 (games on XBR1). It will likely be a moot point unless we start to see games that truly exploit 1080p60 (which is unlikely this gen IMO). I have an XBR1 BTW.

Briefly describe what I should look for and I'll honestly report if it happens. I'm playing 60 fps games at 1080i and have had no noticeable problems so far. Maybe the set's up-conversion to 1080P for final display is doing something right so far, I dunno. How would 3:2 pulldown affect the look or gameplay of a title I have running?

I have the 60 XBR1 and so far Resistance at 720P is awsome. Have not done the blu ray yet, can't wait. I want to try a movie other than Taladega Nights since that quality is not the best from what I heard.

One problem: I get a bit of motion sickness if I play Resistance too long. My stomach actually feels upset.

Briefly describe what I should look for and I'll honestly report if it happens. I'm playing 60 fps games at 1080i and have had no noticeable problems so far. Maybe the set's up-conversion to 1080P for final display is doing something right so far, I dunno. How would 3:2 pulldown affect the look or gameplay of a title I have running?
1080i is only 30 FPS where 1080p can be 60 FPS. If you search the forum for 1080i30 you will find many previous discussions.

Microsoft also has a great summary for 24 FPS film content - http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/accessories/20061003-hddvd.htm

1080p60 can not be converted to 1080i30 without throwing away frames (half of them) or half of each frame. Most sets that accept 1080i input will also support 1920x540p60, but again you are throwing away half of each frame to achieve 60 FPS. There is no way for a scalar to reproduce the original 1080p60 from 1080i30 the way it can for 24 FPS film sources (it has to interpolate).

What does all this really mean for XBR1 owners? Not too much IMHO. PS3 games at 720p look incredible on the XBR1, as does Blu-ray at 1080i. It remains to be seen if we will see full 1080p60 games that exploit the format (this gen), and how it look on the XBR1.
[interpolated 1080i30 or 1920x540p60 will likely look slightly better than 1280x720p60]

IMPORTANT!!!! They will output at 480P on your TV if you don't manually set it to 720P. I was ignorantly at 1080i when I first played all of these and was a bit disappointed by the visuals. They improved after the 720P switch (especially Resistance), and now they look their best and all run at their programmed frame rate with no issues at all.



Are you saying the TV needs to be set to 720p, or the PS3 needs to be set to 720p? I've got a JVC FH96 series which is very similar to the XBR1. I can not set the resolution in the TV itself. My PS3 is being shipped from Costco at the moment so I can't test it myself.

Frankly, at this point I would prefer if ALL games for the PS3 were released in 720p. It's going to get old having to switch the resolution every time I load a specific game or movie.

Are you saying the TV needs to be set to 720p, or the PS3 needs to be set to 720p? I've got a JVC FH96 series which is very similar to the XBR1. I can not set the resolution in the TV itself. My PS3 is being shipped from Costco at the moment so I can't test it myself.

Frankly, at this point I would prefer if ALL games for the PS3 were released in 720p. It's going to get old having to switch the resolution every time I load a specific game or movie.
You are fine.

In your PS3 DISPLAY settings, choose CUSTOM resolution and select 720p and 1080i.

This is only an issue for sets that ONLY accept 1080i and not 720p input.

I have my Monster Component cables (from my old PS2) running from my PS3 through my Denon 3805 to my 60" XBR1. I've had my set calibrated by Jeff Meier as well. I have no doubt in my mind that my XBR1 calibrated by Jeff looks better than a XBR2 out of the box.

I've been playing Resistance and it's been the most intense gaming experience I've ever had. Having a PS3 and playing games on this set looks better than I thought. Jeff also calibrated my 3805 w/ 7.1 sound system and after playing this game my heart rate is definitely pretty high. I don't think I could be happier with the setup I have. I was pondering whether or not I should upgrade to an XBR2 but I can't imagine that I would see much of a difference, especially since Jeff worked his magic on my set.

What's pretty crazy to think about is that Resistance is a launch game, and future games will only look and sound better.

You are fine.

In your PS3 DISPLAY settings, choose CUSTOM resolution and select 720p and 1080i.

Thanks for sharing. I didn't know you could do this. So the PS3 will recognize the output of the game and switch to your sets optimum resolution by setting it up in this way?

^^^ No. For this set, the PS3 will keep it at 720P for all games. You have to manually select 1080i if you want that.

Marc Alexander: Thanks for the info, I know more of what to look for. After a few more hours of testing and paying careful attention to the games, I can say that 1080i and 1080P are not exactly the same. However, it's not cut and dried either. However it is done, 1080i is outputting up to 60 fps on 1080P games that can achieve that rate. I am sure of it. What happens is that at times there is some added sluggishness, particularly when the screen is doing extra graphic activity. Here are things I noticed:

Cash Guns Chaos demo: 1080i definitely runs at the same frame rate as 720P. I switch back and forth and it is the same. However when you win a round, your character dances while the camera rotates around him rapidly (i.e. like holding left on a FPS game while standing in place). In 720P the background spins rapidly with no hiccups, in 1080i there is a noticeable slow down about 20% of the rotation before it picks back up. No slow down during actual game play occurs.

NBA 2K7: Again, the game feels to be the same frame rate in 1080i and 720P, but I can tell you that overall this game dips and chugs at certain points in both resolutions. When the camera pulls back after a big play to reveal the full court and all the players, coaches, bench players, etc, it slows down almost every time for both, and it does it worse in 1080i. Game play stays constant and the same for both.

NBA '07 demo: This engine is definitely better optimized than NBA 2K7. It stays at 60fps rock solid in both resolutions during the game 100% of the time. Even the game play overall is a lot smoother and fast than 2K7. I didn't notice any frame rate issues at all in 1080i or 720P except during the full court intro pan shot of the court... there is a slight slowdown on 1080i. Anyone else who does tests on this TV, download this game and see if you are seeing what I'm seeing. It is not a 30 fps game in 1080i.

+++++

As I was going through these tests, it also occurred to me that 1080 is not a major visual upgrade for at least the titles I've tested. NBA 07 is maybe the most vibrant 1080P game out, and it looks pretty much the same in 720P. Perhaps textures designed for 1080 need to be prevalent in a game to make that resolution stand out more. From 480-->720 is very noticeable, but so far that isn't so true with current 1080 games I've tried when downgrading them and comparing them at 720.

I guess that makes sense in a way because you look at some awesome CG movie and despite the low resolution compared to 1080, we haven't seen games yet approach that level of graphic fidelity. I now better understand why some developers say resolution is maybe 4th on the list of what it takes to make a game look really good. Not that I don't think that we won't see clearer examples of the separation between the two resolutions down the road, but for now, I feel a lot more comfortable staying at 720P.

Now with that said, playing 1080i for these games is NOT a problem so far, and I'm a stickler for input issues. I still get 60fps in all the games except as noted above. And I never really noticed the sluggishness until I looked for it. No doubt I can find my toleration limits once Tekken 6 comes out, but even that game may hold at 60fps during game play at 1080i (if it's a 1080P game). Most rhythm games will likely be just fine at 720P, so no issues there. Overall so far, the PS3 is fun and looks great either way based on these early titles.

I wonder if someone with a 2006 XBR2 set (full 1080P input and output) can check the demo of Cash Guns Chaos for the minor slowdown I mentioned above between levels (during the 360 degree screen spin). The reason I ask is that perhaps that minor sluggishness is present at 1080i or 1080P and is unrelated to 3:2 pulldown.

I'm just trying to eliminate any other reasons for it; I understand that this may not be the case. If it is not present in the full 1080P set, then we'll have an example of the difference between the two resolutions in an actual game.

I've played Ridge Racer 7 at 1080i for quite a few hours and haven't experienced any slowdown at all - not in the slightest - and its a 60 fps game. Shouldn't I get occasional frame drops if there is an issue here?

Nice posts, joeblow. Keep 'em coming.

One problem: I get a bit of motion sickness if I play Resistance too long. My stomach actually feels upset. There are pills for that. Effectiveness may vary. :D


fuad

I wonder if someone with a 2006 XBR2 set (full 1080P input and output) can check the demo of Cash Guns Chaos for the minor slowdown I mentioned above between levels (during the 360 degree screen spin). The reason I ask is that perhaps that minor sluggishness is present at 1080i or 1080P and is unrelated to 3:2 pulldown.

until sony implements a software scaler (unlikely IMO), any game that is outputting 1080i is being rendered internally at 1080p. the sluggishness you are experiencing is likely due to inconsistencies in framerate which normally you may not notice but made more apparent due to the lag introduced by the tv's scaler.

Beatmania - This game is a 60 fps rhythm music game (keyboard and turntable). I can't figure out how to get the special controller to work on the PS3 right now (I have an old USB converter that doesn't do it). Stuck with only the control pad, I had to re-teach myself the buttons before I could complete a song.

Once I got the hang of where the new button presses were, I was knocking out the 'Perfects' just fine on songs of medium difficulty. I'm no expert BM player, but as far as I can tell it is playing fine on the XBR1 through the PS3.



Tell me more about it.

I own the Japanese versions of the game (from 9th-11th style) which has stricter timing than the US version.

To what resolution is it playing on your TV. Does it worsen with converting (or upscaling) the 480i of beatmania to what the PS3 wants @ 480p?

until sony implements a software scaler (unlikely IMO), any game that is outputting 1080i is being rendered internally at 1080p. the sluggishness you are experiencing is likely due to inconsistencies in framerate which normally you may not notice but made more apparent due to the lag introduced by the tv's scaler.

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying. There is no constant sluggishness at all, but it does slow down very briefly a bit in certain predictable instances. I'm only trying to eliminate another possibility... that 1080P/i itself causes slow down at times on some software. If someone with a XBR2 can check it with Cash Guns Chaos, it would explain a lot either way.

Blackraven: I only have the american version. On my PS2 on this TV, I used to have to go to Game Mode in order to play it the timing was so off at first, but it got better once I turned off the TV's enhancements. On the PS3, it is at 480P and so far I can't detect any significant lag. Perhaps you can provide more hands-on info when/if you get a PS3 to test.

Hi all,

According my tests, PS3 1080p games looks exactly the same on both XBR1 and XBR2.
I’m not sure that a flashy game will run nicely on a full 1080p60. The game developers prefer to reduce the load on the GPU and have more detailed graphics rather that faster refresh rate or frame rate.
So theoretically full 1080p game should look better of XBR2 on 60fps, practically they look exactly the same.
Bottom line, in order to have flashy games running on 1080p60fps, we need a machine way faster than the PS3. Probably next gen.

There is some other frustrating issue with Sony, as regard to the XBR1 firmware update to accept 1080p signals.
Both the XBR1 and XBR2 have the exact same hardware as regard to HD display. Both of them have an internal native resolution of 1080p60fps, the only difference is that the XBR2 has a new firmware that can accept 1080p signal, which the XBR1 cannot do.
Theoretically Sony can release a firmware update for the XBR1 TVs to accept 1080p signals, BUT from some marketing ugly reasons they don’t. They decided to neglect all the value costumers with XBR1 TVs and try to get more sales on the new XBR2.
I think that in light of the fact that the PS3 outputs 1080p, it would be very nice if they would have released a firmware update for their XBR1 TVs to accept 1080p signals. It’s not a lot of work for them, just an ugly marketing decision.

I have the new KDSR60XBR2 TV and I’m very happy with it, I’m just not happy at all with the way Sony treats their valuable costumers.

Andrey.

Thanks! It did seem to me that the any extra sluggishness I saw at 1080i could be due to the software itself and would be present on a full 1080P input setting as well. You seem to confirm this. If you find ANY replicable output differences between the two settings, let us know!

As a minor update to my posts above, RR7 at 1080i does exhibit slight slowdown when there are a ton of cars tightly packed together on a sharp turn, but again that may be present in 1080P as well. It's a VERY fun game by the way and is by far my most played title (78% finished).

If there are slowdowns in the game play they would be more significant in the 1080p rather than 1080i, due to a simple fact that the console needs to render 60 frames per second for full 1080p resolution instead of only 30 for the 1080i.
Realistically most of the 3D games that mention the support for 1080p (both for the PS3 and the XBOX 360) don’t render 60 frames per second in the full1920x1080 resolution, the truth is that most of the time (especially for high-end 3D games) the render frame rate is around 30 frames per second while the output is 1080p60fps. So for the 1080p60fps (XBR2) signal each frame presented twice and for 1080i30fps (XBR1) each frame presented once, hence the visual output for the user is identical in both cases.
I guess that small arcades and 2D games that run on 1080p and rendered in 60 frames per second will look better on the XBR2, HOWEVER I cannot tell for sure I’ve noticed any difference while playing “Blast Factor” on both XBR1 (1080i) and XBR2 (1080p).


Andrey.

^^

nothing personal, but you dont know what you're talking about.

I agree with much of Andreyy's last post [in theory]...although it may be confusing what he is trying to say at first read.

wreckshop... so far what I and apparently Andreyy are commenting on is the actual bottom line when it comes to how 1080P games interact with this TV set. Technical analysis may not always be on point since neither one of us are professionals in that area, but more importantly we are trying to evaluate how games actually look and feel in the end.

Good news people! I think I'll soon be able to be as definitive as possible on the issue of possible lag when playing 1080P/60 fps games on the XBR1. Reports from Japan indicate that Tekken 5: DR is going to be released as a cheap download very soon, and the graphics will be enhanced to 1080P.

Not only is this my favorite game series of all time, but the precise input requirements described in my first post will be fully tested at the 1080P setting. I will go so far as to have two of the best Mishima players in the country come by to test if there is even one frame of noticable lag... they both have mastered Heihachi's advanced EWGF (requires more precise timing than the other EWGFs), and will easily be able to sense if anything is out of sync.

hi joeblow

I have the 50' xbr1 and just hooked up my ps3 on monday. And like you said you did when you first got it I set it only to 1080i. Resistance warned me to play in 720p but i went on anyways, and I hit the display key and it showed 1080i. Is it actually using 480p as you said? I will check again when i get home from work but i swear it said 1080i. I'll have to enable 720p and see if it looks any better. Thanks for your report though, very interesting and informative!

edit: the ps3 is hooked up via HDMI

edit2: I was wrong, it was in 480p, and i thought it looked pretty good at that! cant wait to see it at 720p

hi joeblow

I have the 50' xbr1 and just hooked up my ps3 on monday. And like you said you did when you first got it I set it only to 1080i. Resistance warned me to play in 720p but i went on anyways, and I hit the display key and it showed 1080i. Is it actually using 480p as you said? I will check again when i get home from work but i swear it said 1080i. I'll have to enable 720p and see if it looks any better. Thanks for your report though, very interesting and informative!

edit: the ps3 is hooked up via HDMI

yes, enable 720p in your PS3 and you'll get way better picture than the 480p.
the game is not designd for 1080, so you probably played it on 480p.

Also there is a firmware update for the PS3 1.30. it puts the priorety of the 1080i resolution above the 720p. so you can use the dashboard and the web browser at 1080i, start a 720p game without changing the display settings.

Andrey.

^^

nothing personal, but you dont know what you're talking about.

nothing personal, but search my name in the us patents website and see the list of the published patents, publications and pending patents i have in the media field :)
i may have put a lot of information in a short sentence, but i can elaborate on each one of the subjects if needed.

Andrey.

nothing personal, but search my name "Andrey Yruski" in the us patents website and see the list of the published patents, publications and pending patents i have in the media field :)
i may have put a lot of information in a short sentence, but i can elaborate on each one of the subjects if needed.

Andrey.

OWNED, comment was deserved..... :D

Ownage indeed... moving on.

Hey AndreyY, if you ever get a chance can you please compare the demo of Cash Guns Chaos in 1080P, 1080i, and 720P resolutions on the XBR1 and XBR2? As I said above, for me what consistently happens in 1080i on the XBR1 once you complete a round is that there is slight but noticable sluggishness every few seconds when the camera is spinning rapidly around your character. This isn't present in 720P.

If that sluggishness is absent on the XBR2 from 720P and 1080P but present in 1080i, then we know it's the interlaced setting causing the frame-rate lag. If the lag on the XBR2 is present in 1080P and 1080i, then we know it is the software itself at 1080 resolutions causing the problems.

Ownage indeed... moving on.

Hey AndreyY, if you ever get a chance can you please compare the demo of Cash Guns Chaos in 1080P, 1080i, and 720P resolutions on the XBR1 and XBR2? As I said above, for me what consistently happens in 1080i on the XBR1 once you complete a round is that there is slight but noticable sluggishness every few seconds when the camera is spinning rapidly around your character. This isn't present in 720P.

If that sluggishness is absent on the XBR2 from 720P and 1080P but present in 1080i, then we know it's the interlaced setting causing the frame-rate lag. If the lag on the XBR2 is present in 1080P and 1080i, then we know it is the software itself at 1080 resolutions causing the problems.

i'll check that tonight.
i've done a lot of testings on both TVs, i'll try to run more games and compare the behaviour on both TVs. i'll try to get as much as i could b/c i need to return the old XBR1 to Sony by the end of the week.
as for now i don't see any visual difference between them when checking my satellite, Blu-Ray and games. and it totally make sense, b/c satellite delivers only 1080i, so both TVs display the same. Blu-Ray movies are filmed at 24fps, so watching it on 1080i30fps and 1080p60fts is identical. as for games, i have yet to see any differance, and i have very sharp eye :cool:
i suspect that the sluggishness you reffering to on 1080i caused by the game performance on the PS3 at the 1080 resolution, think about it. the TV doesn't care if there are big changes between frames.

Andrey.

some good additional info:

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/profile/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-24660414&user=UnnDunn

Andrey.

If there are slowdowns in the game play they would be more significant in the 1080p rather than 1080i, due to a simple fact that the console needs to render 60 frames per second for full 1080p resolution instead of only 30 for the 1080i.

there aren't any PS3 games that support interlaced rendering. ridge racer renders 1080p and the output is interlaced. the fillrate for 1080i is just a little bit higher than for 720p, so why aren't there ANY 1080i games? this is what DeanA (developer for heavenly sword) has to say about interlaced rendering:
Yup.. Kung-Fu Chaos used interlaced rendering. So, that was 640x240 for NTSC, or 640x288 for PAL. The reason for it was straightforward, in that it halved our fillrate cost. And we had lots of effects/particles that ate fillrate for breakfast. It also halved the amount of memory we needed for the display buffers. Of course, it meant that if you ever dropped out of 60Hz (50Hz PAL), the screen would look like crap, as you'd end up with the current field being duplicated (so it'd look like the resolution had halved for the period where you were out of a frame). But then I believe it was in our contract with MS that the game ran in a frame, so no real problem. Ahh.. so many memories.. :/

I'm still pretty convinced that the reason Kung-Fu Chaos isn't on the X360 backwards compatibility list is because we used this.

For PS3 i'd say that the rendering cost of 1080 is likely to be identical, regardless of whether the display mode is 1080i or 1080p. I'm guessing that you'd always need to render the full 1080 lines.. because you wouldn't be able to guarantee that someone wouldn't add some cost that pushed your framerate over 60Hz by bringing up an OS component of some sorts. Kinda like the way framerate is affected on the X360 if you hit the X360 guide button during a game... you'll notice it gets choppy while it has that blade stuff on screen (for video anyway.. most games go into pause mode). So, I think the days of rendering-half-your-buffer hacks like we used in Kung-Fu Chaos are long gone.

Dean

so yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. oh and btw, it is a fact that ridge racer 7 is a 1080p 60fps game.

Anyone calibrate their XBR1 to the PS3 yet over HDMI. I'm curious what settings you used. I love to try settings that others have come up with.

dpe

I find the calibrated settings for PS3 to be no different than any other HDMI source. The optimal settings can differ between XBR1s (usually just the brightness setting). Bottom line, calibrate your own rather than trying other's settings.

there aren't any PS3 games that support interlaced rendering. ridge racer renders 1080p and the output is interlaced.
I don't think anyone is contesting this fact. The bottom line is that no games currently take full advantage of 1080p at 60 FPS where you would see a noticeable difference on an SXRD at 1080i vs 1080p input. Will we ever see this(?), probably not this gen and definitely not often.

Also, we are all capable of intelligent discussion. No need for personal attacks (>>> Please Read Before Posting <<< (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/announcement.php?f=142&announcementid=80)).

Does anybody else have the green blob on their xbr1 that is totally ruining their blu-ray experience(especially when watching Ice Age2)?...I am getting my Optical Block replaced, however Sony has them backordered now.

Green blob discussion belongs in the RPTV forum.

dpe

I find the calibrated settings for PS3 to be no different than any other HDMI source. The optimal settings can differ between XBR1s (usually just the brightness setting). Bottom line, calibrate your own rather than trying other's settings.

I agree its best to calibrate your own, again, I think its fun to try other people's settings, because occastionally I get something I would have never tried. I'd still appreciate anyone's settings.

I don't think anyone is contesting this fact. The bottom line is that no games currently take full advantage of 1080p at 60 FPS where you would see a noticeable difference on an SXRD at 1080i vs 1080p input. Will we ever see this(?), probably not this gen and definitely not often.


actually, andrey "I'm so smart cuz I got a bunch of patents" yurski went into quite a bit of detail on how games don't render in 1080p 60fps, and if you are seeing 1080p 60fps onscreen, it actually was being rendered by RSX at 1080i 30fps

actually, andrey "I'm so smart cuz I got a bunch of patents" yurski went into quite a bit of detail on how games don't render in 1080p 60fps, and if you are seeing 1080p 60fps onscreen, it actually was being rendered by RSX at 1080i 30fps
That is not what he said.

He said that 1080p60 takes more horsepower. For 1080i30, a game only needs to render 30 FPS to convert the progressive render to interlaced display. Therefore, you "should" experience less slowdown at 1080i than 1080p.

There are a lot of smart (and not so smart) people on this forum, why insult anyone?

Yeah wreckshop, let' s move on. For my part I'll apologize for my comment, but on your part there was no need to come into a thread insulting someone else. If you feel you have the right info, just politely share it for all of us to take in and leave out direct, personal comments.

Do you have an XBR1/2 + PS3 and have noticed different things than what's been reported here? If so, we'd appreciate hearing about it.

i'll check that tonight.
i've done a lot of testings on both TVs, i'll try to run more games and compare the behaviour on both TVs. i'll try to get as much as i could b/c i need to return the old XBR1 to Sony by the end of the week.
as for now i don't see any visual difference between them when checking my satellite, Blu-Ray and games. and it totally make sense, b/c satellite delivers only 1080i, so both TVs display the same. Blu-Ray movies are filmed at 24fps, so watching it on 1080i30fps and 1080p60fts is identical. as for games, i have yet to see any differance, and i have very sharp eye :cool:
i suspect that the sluggishness you reffering to on 1080i caused by the game performance on the PS3 at the 1080 resolution, think about it. the TV doesn't care if there are big changes between frames.

Andrey.

Ok, I’ve played "Cash Guns Chaos" on both TVs at 1080i for XBR1 and 1080p for the XBR2. I never played this demo before so it took me some time to finish the first stage (too many weird creatures). To the point, in both TVs I’ve noticed the sluggishness that you were talking about when the camera spins around the cowboy. This kind of sluggishness is very typical to render frame drops due to overloading the render engine with objects, textures and effects, or some un-optimized code.

Andrey.

Aha! So as of now there still are no player-detectable differences between playing a game in 1080i or 1080P (at least on the Sony SXRD XBR series). The 1080P games so far look the same and feel the same in both rezzes. Since the display of the XBR1 is advertised to output 1080P in the end, maybe that's why it works so well so far (I still need to check Tekken: DR).

This is pretty cool. It suggests that anyone looking for a great 50"+ HDTV for a really good price can get an SXRD XBR1 and still have just about the same HD movie and PS3 game experience as the XBR2. That is if you can find any left for sale where you live of course.

I have a question relevant to this topic. Has anyone compared Ridge Racer (a native 1080p game) on both the XBR1 and XBR2 sets? The reason why I ask is because many previews for the game were very positive in describing Ridge Racer's graphics as being "a showcase for the detail and image quality the PS3 is capable of". However, playing the game on my 60" XBR1 @ 1080i yielded a relatively unpleasant image with noticable jaggies, shimmering, and less than detailed textures. I have been wondering if the 1080i resolution and the TV's conversion has somehow introduced artifacts to the image but the general concensus on this thread is that the 1080i output matches the 1080p between (at least) the Sony SXRD sets. If so, than I cannot imagine how everyone would have praised RR7's image quality @1080p based on what I'm seeing at 1080i. In fact, I think 720p looks better on my set IMO. Thoughts?

There is "shimmering", the car textures are blurry in close, and no game is completely jaggy free as of yet, but RR7 look sweet all the same. Not as good as F1, but nice all the same for a 1st gen title.

I think RR7 was partly ported from last year's RR6, but perhaps RR8 will be even sharper to look at.

Ridge Racer series needs to die and never resurface

Great thread. I can't wait to get one for my 60XBR1. Came close twice at Target two days in a row now (3 or 4 people ahead of me both times for the 2 x 60GB they had). :( I've already bought Kingdom of Heaven and Black Hawk Down on Blu-ray, too.

Ridge Racer series needs to die and never resurface

Tell that to Mario and Zelda.

That is not what he said.

He said that 1080p60 takes more horsepower. For 1080i30, a game only needs to render 30 FPS to convert the progressive render to interlaced display. Therefore, you "should" experience less slowdown at 1080i than 1080p.

There are a lot of smart (and not so smart) people on this forum, why insult anyone?

why even mention PS3 rendering games in 1080i, when it doesnt happen?

why even mention PS3 rendering games in 1080i, when it doesnt happen?

Nobody said that there is some special mode call 1080i frame render rate. HOWEVER, render rate is controlled by the developer, thus if you as a developer needs to do the trade off between higher frame render rate and richer picture quality you can. And guess what, so far all the top game developers made the decision in favor of the picture quality. Some of them lowered the resolution to 720p and also reduce the render frame rate to achieve a better picture quality .for instance the developers of “Gears of War”, “Halo”, “Resistance”, etc… made this decision. All of those games have slowdowns in the game play and slowdown means “renders less then 30 different frames per second” some times it’s even lower than 20. I have to say that the frame rate in “Resistance” is better than the others but still the render frame rate of the game is not 60 frames per second over the 720p resolution. The hardware submits to your TV 60 frames per second on 720p and 1080p, BUT it doesn’t necessary mean that it renders 60 different frames per second constantly.

So my point is simple, if I’m a developer and I need to push the limits of the hardware, so in order for me to get 150% performance out of the box, I need to sacrifice something, the first thing I’ll give away is the render frame rate, why do I need to render 60 frames per second and use a lot of my hardware resources to something that nobody even sees, I can use this power to add more objects textures, etc... But of course I’ll reduce it to a reasonable rate, and this rate lies around 25-30 frames per second. Think about it, let’s say that the PS3 has the power to render X number of polygons per 1/60 of a second time (this is a constant number), I can render 2X polygons in a 1/30 of a second time. It’s simple math, but it’s a very valuable factor to the game developer, it means that I can have a scene with double the objects if I submit my render buffer to the display once every 1/30 of a second than every 1/60 of a second. And this is true to any past and future hardware if you want to maximize your visuals.
Hence the 1080i display will look similar to the 1080p.

You also can find a lot on the 1080p resolution on the web, and see what exactly stands behind it. You’ll find that most of it is Sony’s powerful marketing machine.
In a nut shell, 1080p is not even part of the ATSC standard that defines what HDTV is. But Soy calls the 1080p the real full HD, there is no such a thing “full HD”, marketing marketing marketing.
Sony wants to differentiate themselves from MS and say that they support the new “Full HD” resolution.
Bottom line 1080p is nice as long as we know what it is all about. Technically is better than the 1080i, practically is 99% the same.

Andrey.

yes, enable 720p in your PS3 and you'll get way better picture than the 480p.
the game is not designd for 1080, so you probably played it on 480p.

Also there is a firmware update for the PS3 1.30. it puts the priorety of the 1080i resolution above the 720p. so you can use the dashboard and the web browser at 1080i, start a 720p game without changing the display settings.

Andrey.

Hi Andrey,

Thank you always for your informative posts.

I just wanted to clarify one thing from what you and Joe Blow have stated. Joe Blow mentioned in his incredibly thorough write up that games like Resistance should be set to 720P in the display options of the PS3 before playing the game, however, you mentioned that after the v1.3 firmware update, you no longer had to set it each time you had to play a game in 720P when the display setting is set to 1080i.

So, for resistance, if I leave my display settings at 1080i, will it still play in 720P and not 480P even though it's not set for 720P?

That is correct. My RR7 plays at 1080i, and Resistance or Fight Night 3 have no problem switching to 720P for me. I don't need to change anything anymore.

Guys,

Let me just say that I am so glad to have found this particular thread, since I have a KDS60XBR2.

I absolutely love my display at full 1080P with some of the games (720P as well :D ). The problem that I am having right now is screen display using Yellow Dog Linux.

There are 2 modes of 1080P (regular, and full screen). On the regular mode, I get black bars all around, as the OS is not utilizing full 1920x1080. But on the full screen mode, the black bars are gone, but another problem comes up. The screen is overscanned, or the desktop area goes outside of the full screen area. Anyone else here installed YDL and able to use the 1080P mode?

Thank you.

It will likely be a moot point unless we start to see games that truly exploit 1080p60 (which is unlikely this gen IMO). I have an XBR1 BTW.

Not true. NBA 07 runs at 60 fps and in 1080p!

Not true. NBA 07 runs at 60 fps and in 1080p!

Hmmm, does that mean the sxrd xbr1 won't allow it to run in 1080p/60, but 720p/60 or 1080i/24 instead?

I am not sure on this one but I do believe that any 1080p TV will run NBA 07 at the full 60 fps and in 1080p.

I am not sure on this one but I do believe that any 1080p TV will run NBA 07 at the full 60 fps and in 1080p.

Even if the SXRD xbr1 doesn't "accept" 1080p signals? It's still run in 1080p/60? That would be nice. :)

Not true. NBA 07 runs at 60 fps and in 1080p!
Yes it does, and so do Cash Guns Chaos, Blast Factor, NBA2k, Marvel, Ridge Racer, etc. I said, no games "truly exploit" 1080p60.

I would love to read your impressions of any current 1080p60 game comparing the full 1080p60 mode to 1080i and 720p (provided you have a 1080p display).

720p is the sweet spot right now (even for the 1080p games) because the games run smoother and the graphics are not much different than in 1080.

Need help with NBA 2K7 only seeing in 720P. We have the KDS-R50XBR1 - 1080i. PS3 1.31 firmware......set to 480p, 720P & 1080i on HDMI Input #7. If 2K7 says 1080P, can someone tell me how to see in 1080i instead of 720P? - Tricky

^^^ Same here! Ever since the new update.

Need help with NBA 2K7 only seeing in 720P. We have the KDS-R50XBR1 - 1080i. PS3 1.31 firmware......set to 480p, 720P & 1080i on HDMI Input #7. If 2K7 says 1080P, can someone tell me how to see in 1080i instead of 720P? - Tricky


I figured it out. Go to PS3 in Display option uncheck 720P.....then I got 2K7 to play in 1080i. Hopefully next Sony firmware will fix 2K7 all my other 1080p's go to 1080i on the KDS-R50XBR1

If it's one game, I won't sweat it too much. I noticed though that Lemmings is 720P no matter what... if you uncheck 720P it will default to 480P, not 1080i. Looks great at 720P however.

They need to allow an option to choose 720p or 1080i priority. They simply keep swapping prioirty back and forth with firmware.

I was getting an audible hum and could view some... banding (usually a shade of dark blue/purple just slightly noticible from the black background) moving upwards using my Sony PlayStation branded PS2 component cables. It almost seemed like it was trying to go more than 60Hz or something...

Switching to HDMI and optical (the intended setup all along), the buzz is gone as is any visible banding. Anyone else see anything like this? I'm not sure if it's my XBR1 (though I don't think this is very likely given that I didn't see it with the PS2 (with the same cable on the same input - Component #4), the PS3 (possible), or the cables themselves (though I would be inlined against given the previous lack of issue with the PS2 & XBR1). Just thought I'd share. :)

Now time for an HDMI receiver!

Why won't it "detect" or allow me to set my PS3 in 1080p. I have a 60" XBR SXRD from a year ago. It said it is 1080p WTF? Is there something I have to do? When I play the supplied Telledega Nights BRDVD and hit the Display button on my remote it says 1080i NOT 1080p. Forgive my ignorance, I just assumed this would work since it is why I bought the thing for ~5K a year ago.
Thanks

D'oh !!!!

D'oh !!!!


Does this mean I will NEVER see the 1080p on the display banner? That Doh doesn't sound good.

I think the firmware it downloaded tonight was 1.2 I could be wrong, but maybe that has something to do with it. Should I call sony and ask them to send me out an XBR2?

Why won't it "detect" or allow me to set my PS3 in 1080p. I have a 60" XBR SXRD from a year ago. It said it is 1080p WTF? Is there something I have to do? When I play the supplied Telledega Nights BRDVD and hit the Display button on my remote it says 1080i NOT 1080p. Forgive my ignorance, I just assumed this would work since it is why I bought the thing for ~5K a year ago.
Thanks

Marketing screws us all sometimes, I agree with your complaint. The light at the end of the tunnel is that what you see on your display IS 1080P. The TV automatically makes anything it receives progressive so the results are indistinguishable from an XBR2 in "true" 1080P right now.

What you are seeing is that a 1080i signal is being sent into the machine - that's why it says 1080i. The end result is what counts, and you are getting the best possible picture on your TV as has been reported in several places at this site. It is exactly as good as true 1080P. No user detectable differences have been reported whatsoever.

Why won't it "detect" or allow me to set my PS3 in 1080p. I have a 60" XBR SXRD from a year ago. It said it is 1080p WTF? Is there something I have to do? When I play the supplied Telledega Nights BRDVD and hit the Display button on my remote it says 1080i NOT 1080p. Forgive my ignorance, I just assumed this would work since it is why I bought the thing for ~5K a year ago.
Thanks


Your trying to tell us for a year you have had the display you assumed it would recieve a 1080P signal? I am sorry I have the same display and I find it hard to believe that a display that came out last year that you never did any research whatsoever and you are just now finding out this model never accepted 1080P. You do know the XBR2 is out and it states it accepts 1080P. You also know the manuel even states what resolutions it accepts for the display. I can't believe after a year this is what we keep hearing. Sorry this isn't about him being a new member but the fact that you don't know your own display that you just put 5k on a year ago and not know anything about it just tells me it is another example of no research whatsoever. Let me guess you bought it off the internet?

I think you are being too tough on him. It's not at all incredible to believe that an average consumer sees '1080P' advertised for a TV feature and doesn't stop to find out that it is 1080P output only in the fine print. I do wish that was more obvious on every 1080P sticker for those type of TVs.

But that's water under the bridge. All current sets made now are full 1080P, not partial like before. And the ones that were partial, like ours here, are still really good. I'm just happy there are no detectable differences found yet between 1080i and 1080P on the SXRD XBR series. In the end, we all can be 100% satisfied with our displays.

I think you are being too tough on him. It's not at all incredible to believe that an average consumer sees '1080P' advertised for a TV feature and doesn't stop to find out that it is 1080P output only in the fine print. I do wish that was more obvious on every 1080P sticker for those type of TVs.

But that's water under the bridge. All current sets made now are full 1080P, not partial like before. And the ones that were partial, like ours here, are still really good. I'm just happy there are no detectable differences found yet between 1080i and 1080P on the SXRD XBR series. In the end, we all can be 100% satisfied with our displays.


I am not trying to come off hard and I apologize if so, but when someone talks about spending 5k on a display that you no nothing about somthing is wrong with that picture to where it has been a year and you say you waited till a PS3 came out for somthing you actually had the answer too in the box. The instructions and as much talk as the SXRD has been I can figure out how anyone didn't know and thats what brings up the questions. What questions did you actually ask before you purchased the display? What comparisions etc. I have had mine since Feb 06 but I worked at Best Buy so yes of course I knew purchasing it it would not recieve 1080P but comparing to the XBR2 and not noticing if any difference from 1080P vs the XBR1 I honestly had no concerns at all if there would be a major leap of quality difference I never once believed it would. That doesn't make the XBR2 bad it just squashes what some doubters and fanboys comment about with resolution differences. As I said before this is not a leap difference then it was from 480p to 720P. All I am saying is the same thing that has been said before please research before we find someone make a post that they though the display came with 2 HDMI inputs and all it took was to look at the back or read everything that is supposed to be included. Lesson learned

Hi all, thanks for all the great info I have read here. I just got my PS3 last night. I used an HDMI to hook it up to my Sony A2000 TV and that is it. It seems to work great. Having said this, I have read several posts mentioning HDMI ALONG WITH optical for sound. Does this optical cable add to the sound quality?

On a related note, I put in "Ice Age" (BluRay) last night and visually it was stunning. The audio had a clear static sound to it for a while. I rebooted the PS3 and that static was completely gone. The static has not returned but I am wondering if anyone else had had a similar problem.


Thanks in advance for the help.

Greg

Thanks for the bashing. If you think back a year ago. These set were JUST released (I actually got mine in Oct 05 so a little over a year). I bought it from ABC warehouse and spoke for at least an hour with the sales rep. Anyways, bottom line is they didn't even have 1080P content then, but I wanted to buy a TV that would support it since they say it was 2 million pixels- double the resolution of 1080i. SO, being there were only about 3 sets out that supported 1080p, I found the sony blew them away.

I have a 1.5 year old and I am a developer who works on a computer all day. Forgive me for not reading the posts every night to check that my TV actually did what it was advertised to do.

Check out the info on Sony's site... They claim all over the place that this TV is 1080p. How in the would could one be fooled. I have a degree in advertising and this seems like plain false advertising.

Look on the sonystyle site for the XSRD60 from last year (speakers on sides)...

Sony’s Grand WEGA SXRD™ XBR™ Series provides the Full HD 1080p experience with stunning detail, film-like images, and crisp, smooth motion.
Feature List
SXRD™ Panels SXRD technology is the latest display technology developed by the legendary television engineers at Sony to meet and exceed the demands of a High Definition image at its full 1080 line resolution. Digitally transmitted High Definition signals can contain over 2 million individual detail points that need to be displayed accurately and rapidly. SXRD displays those 2 million detail points per SXRD panel accurately since the 3 SXRD panels actually contain enough pixels to fully display a 1080 line picture without interlacing it. SXRD™ has the speed to create a smooth, film like image.

Video
High Definition: Yes (Full HD 1080)
Native Resolution: 1080p
Display Resolution: 1920 x 1080

Some of you were very helpful. Thanks so much. I will rest assured I am seeing 1080p despite what the info banner says. :)

Happy Holidays.

Thanks for the bashing. If you think back a year ago. These set were JUST released (I actually got mine in Oct 05 so a little over a year). I bought it from ABC warehouse and spoke for at least an hour with the sales rep. Anyways, bottom line is they didn't even have 1080P content then, but I wanted to buy a TV that would support it since they say it was 2 million pixels- double the resolution of 1080i. SO, being there were only about 3 sets out that supported 1080p, I found the sony blew them away.

I have a 1.5 year old and I am a developer who works on a computer all day. Forgive me for not reading the posts every night to check that my TV actually did what it was advertised to do.

Check out the info on Sony's site... They claim all over the place that this TV is 1080p. How in the would could one be fooled. I have a degree in advertising and this seems like plain false advertising.

Look on the sonystyle site for the XSRD60 from last year (speakers on sides)...

Sony’s Grand WEGA SXRD™ XBR™ Series provides the Full HD 1080p experience with stunning detail, film-like images, and crisp, smooth motion.
Feature List
SXRD™ Panels SXRD technology is the latest display technology developed by the legendary television engineers at Sony to meet and exceed the demands of a High Definition image at its full 1080 line resolution. Digitally transmitted High Definition signals can contain over 2 million individual detail points that need to be displayed accurately and rapidly. SXRD displays those 2 million detail points per SXRD panel accurately since the 3 SXRD panels actually contain enough pixels to fully display a 1080 line picture without interlacing it. SXRD™ has the speed to create a smooth, film like image.

Video
High Definition: Yes (Full HD 1080)
Native Resolution: 1080p
Display Resolution: 1920 x 1080

Some of you were very helpful. Thanks so much. I will rest assured I am seeing 1080p despite what the info banner says. :)

Happy Holidays.

I am glad you see that you are not missing anything from this display but Sony didn't lie and in your manuel it tells you what resolutions it accepts. The fact is Sony promoted it as a 1080P display because it is a native 1080P display same as the JVC when they promoted the HD-ILA. HP and a few others did recieve a 1080P signal at the time. Like I was saying lesson learned to research before you buy. It would have not been difficult to find the information stating they display doesn't accept a 1080P signal it only displays a 1080P native resolution.

Lots of great info here. Some of us are still learning about all this stuff.
I have an XBR1 60 and I have to say I love it. I'll be plugging in my PS3 soon and I'll probably be back here checking in with you all for advice :)

The only problem I've had so far with my XBR1 is while watching football games in HD. It seems that on closeups with motion, the background becomes a bit pixelated. I was wondering if that's correctable though not a big deal. I have a DTV HDDVR hooked up via HDMI directly to the XB.

Once again, I really do appreciate all the knowledge being shared here. It's already helped me out a lot.

TIA

I was getting an audible hum and could view some... banding (usually a shade of dark blue/purple just slightly noticible from the black background) moving upwards using my Sony PlayStation branded PS2 component cables. It almost seemed like it was trying to go more than 60Hz or something...

Switching to HDMI and optical (the intended setup all along), the buzz is gone as is any visible banding. Anyone else see anything like this?
You have a ground loop. Read about it here. (http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/)

Let me guess, you have mixed 2-prong and 3-prong plugs, and are using cable TV, or possibly a powered antenna?

Unplug the cable TV from the whole system and see if that fixes it. If it does, then you can get a simple dongle that connects to the end of the cable, called a DC blocker and/or Ground Loop Isolator. I got mine for $3 each (got a bunch, one for every cable outlet) from http://cablesandconnectors.com/
Here's the correct page... funky catalog scan thing, but it's part # 75-504 (right end, middle row.)
http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/cal109.jpg

Hmm I think tha'ts possible. I do apparently have mixed 2-prong/3-prong (STB, DVD player and Subwoofer are 2 prong it looks like while everything else - tv, avr, ps3) are 3-prong.

I would probably go back and try that, except everything works with HDMI and optical and I've already pulled the PS2 component out from the back of the TV. I just wanted to give the PS2 component cables a try, but there is no apparent ground loop now (or if there it is, I can't perceive it).

I've downloaded and tested the HK version of Tekken 5: DR, which was planned all along to be my ultimate test. I played it extensively on 480P, 720P and 1080i settings of the XBR1. I played it with the wireless Sixaxis controller, and I played it with a PS2 controller using a Radio Shack USB converter.

The conclusions are clear: there is definitely noticeable lag at 1080i. In general I can "feel" it while playing Tekken, but specifically there are certain combos I tried that barely worked 1 out of 20 tries in 1080i, but worked every time in 480P and 720P.

What that means is that the conversion from 1080i to 1080P for games that support 1080P takes enough time where your inputs fall behind the action on screen. This is different than display lag, or general frame rate sluggishness which does NOT occur as you can read in the rest of this thread. The frame rate for 1080i and 1080P games is the same, but input lag is indeed evident for a game that requires frame-accurate inputs at 1080P.

So in conclusion, you can play these fighters or rhythm games just fine at 720P or less on the SXRD XBR1. I can still attest to the fact that you won't notice it much playing "regular" games like GT:HD, where I have times that are 7 seconds off the world record holders playing in 1080P. If you want a pure 1080P gaming experience for all games however, this is not the TV to get. I'll add this text to the first post for newcomers.

I wish I'd waited for the XBR2, but honestly had no idea about all of this when I made my purchase. I can live with 720P because it still looks really, really good, but if I get a chance to sell the XBR1 and upgrade, I'll do it.

Do you notice any significant differences graphically with Tekken at 1080i vs 720p?

Visually, no. Put it this way... the best looking games besides GT:HD for the PS3 are Genji 2 and the boxer models of Fight Night R3. Both of those games are 720P native. T5: DR seems the same in both resolutions, and I couldn't even see a difference (casually looked) between 720 and 1080 for GT:HD.

I've downloaded and tested the HK version of Tekken 5: DR, which was planned all along to be my ultimate test. I played it extensively on 480P, 720P and 1080i settings of the XBR1. I played it with the wireless Sixaxis controller, and I played it with a PS2 controller using a Radio Shack USB converter.

The conclusions are clear: there is definitely noticeable lag at 1080i. In general I can "feel" it while playing Tekken, but specifically there are certain combos I tried that barely worked 1 out of 20 tries in 1080i, but worked every time in 480P and 720P.

What that means is that the conversion from 1080i to 1080P for games that support 1080P takes enough time where your inputs fall behind the action on screen. This is different than display lag, or general frame rate sluggishness which does NOT occur as you can read in the rest of this thread. The frame rate for 1080i and 1080P games is the same, but input lag is indeed evident for a game that requires frame-accurate inputs at 1080P.

So in conclusion, you can play these fighters or rhythm games just fine at 720P or less on the SXRD XBR1. I can still attest to the fact that you won't notice it much playing "regular" games like GT:HD, where I have times that are 7 seconds off the world record holders playing in 1080P. If you want a pure 1080P gaming experience for all games however, this is not the TV to get. I'll add this text to the first post for newcomers.

I wish I'd waited for the XBR2, but honestly had no idea about all of this when I made my purchase. I can live with 720P because it still looks really, really good, but if I get a chance to sell the XBR1 and upgrade, I'll do it.
Joe, did you test using Direct Mode? This should reduce some of the lag with 1080i input. Also, if you have the component cables you can use Game Mode which should reduce the lag further. For some odd reason, Game Mode is not avaiable with HDMI input.

I'm just happy there are no detectable differences found yet between 1080i and 1080P on the SXRD XBR series. In the end, we all can be 100% satisfied with our displays.

Do you know how long I have been searching for this information? Talk about needle in the haystack. Finally someone sums it all up!

Thank you!

(now where do I find the, "no detectable diffrences between HDMI audio and Optical out" thread?)

I've downloaded and tested the HK version of Tekken 5: DR, which was planned all along to be my ultimate test. I played it extensively on 480P, 720P and 1080i settings of the XBR1. I played it with the wireless Sixaxis controller, and I played it with a PS2 controller using a Radio Shack USB converter.

The conclusions are clear: there is definitely noticeable lag at 1080i. In general I can "feel" it while playing Tekken, but specifically there are certain combos I tried that barely worked 1 out of 20 tries in 1080i, but worked every time in 480P and 720P.

What that means is that the conversion from 1080i to 1080P for games that support 1080P takes enough time where your inputs fall behind the action on screen. This is different than display lag, or general frame rate sluggishness which does NOT occur as you can read in the rest of this thread. The frame rate for 1080i and 1080P games is the same, but input lag is indeed evident for a game that requires frame-accurate inputs at 1080P.

So in conclusion, you can play these fighters or rhythm games just fine at 720P or less on the SXRD XBR1. I can still attest to the fact that you won't notice it much playing "regular" games like GT:HD, where I have times that are 7 seconds off the world record holders playing in 1080P. If you want a pure 1080P gaming experience for all games however, this is not the TV to get. I'll add this text to the first post for newcomers.

I wish I'd waited for the XBR2, but honestly had no idea about all of this when I made my purchase. I can live with 720P because it still looks really, really good, but if I get a chance to sell the XBR1 and upgrade, I'll do it.

So, you're saying our tvs are 1080p which equates to the same FPS as a TV with 1080p inputs but since it doesnt accept the 1080p signal, there is input lag? :(

Are you sure you're just not pressing the buttons fast enough when you're in 1080i? :p :p Maybe knowing that it was in 1080i slowed u down! ;)

Marc Alexander: I shall test all of those theories tonight!

coronaMinn: I couldn't find any info either so that's why I made this thread and tried testing for myself. Still, read the update in the first post as there have been developing concerns.

JBRhee: Heh, I've been playing Tekken for 10 years and competitive fighting games in general for 15 years. I can tell when there's sluggishness in a game's response to my inputs.

Marc Alexander: I shall test all of those theories tonight!

coronaMinn: I couldn't find any info either so that's why I made this thread and tried testing for myself. Still, read the update in the first post as there have been developing concerns.

JBRhee: Heh, I've been playing Tekken for 10 years and competitive fighting games in general for 15 years. I can tell when there's sluggishness in a game's response to my inputs.

:eek: that's a heck of a long time. :p

I wish they would just come out with a firmware or something to allow our TVs to "accept" 1080p so we don't run into this input lag. Why did they even make a 1080P TV that doesn't accept 1080P signals??? :confused:

I wonder if Sony would let us trade in our XBR1s for a XBR2 at a reduced cost....

Btw, how do you know it's input lag?? I've never heard of anything called "input lag"...and I just dont WANT to believe it. :P

JBRhee: Heh, I've been playing Tekken for 10 years and competitive fighting games in general for 15 years. I can tell when there's sluggishness in a game's response to my inputs.
Joeblow, I'm still curious, is this "Joe King" from Cali? Just a long shot but after hanging out in #tkn and #tekken for so long I ended up discussing HDTVs at length with joeking, thought maybe you were the same guy.

Got the tea-kin last night and played it in 1080i. While I wish there was a practice mode, just doing stuff like EWGF combos with Devil Jin you can tell there is lag.

I'll try messing around with it tonight in 720 and what not.

BTW - sup to all the tekken heads, this is omni from SRK/Evo.

Derek Daniels
http://lowfierce.blogspot.com

Derek, would you mind testing 1080i in DIRECT MODE? Also, if you've got component cables you can use GAME MODE which should reduce lag further.

Derek, would you mind testing 1080i in DIRECT MODE? Also, if you've got component cables you can use GAME MODE which should reduce lag further.

Yeah, no problem. I'm at work today on a saturday (sucks to make videogames...) but when I get home I'll try it and let everyone know.

Derek Daniels
http://lowfierce.blogspot.com

OK, here are early results of more testing Tekken 5: DR. I'll keep at it to see if more can be revealed....

- Setting: 1080i output, HDMI with Direct Mode OFF produces overall sluggishness when inputting commands. I can feel input lag (not frame rate drops) even while moving around. Everything pretty much comes out noticeable frames slower than when I press a command. This is basically what I was playing and reported on since its release.

- Setting: 1080i output, HDMI with Direct Mode ON cleans up a lot of the input sluggishness. It "feels" pretty much normal while playing, so much so that I can't tell yet how much it affects gameplay. I was able to complete my complex commands and combos often and was unable to tell if it was my mistake when I missed it.

I'd say that outside of these precision-input games, I would be perfectly happy to play all other 1080P games in this mode. For precision games, more testing is needed. The game looks fine as well.

- Setting: 1080i output, Component cables with Game Mode OFF is sluggish, just like HDMI with Direct Mode off.

- Setting: 1080i output, Component cables with Game Mode ON... ladies and gentlemen, this is definitely perfect. I can easily do all the stuff I expect to in this mode. If it ain't perfect, I can't see how anyone could tell. Everything I tried felt just right.

There is one caveat to be aware of when selecting Game Mode on... your visuals degrade. 1080i Component and 1080i HDMI look the same so it's not that, but Game mode on turns off certain enhancement features in the TV to make it look less sharp and vivid as the normal XBR1 pictures. There's an overall soft blur, and small text is less clear.

Still, do NOT be overly concerned because I was able to manually adjust my settings to get about 96% of the picture back to normal... maybe even more. What I did was go to the input channel where I had component connected and matched all the settings to the ones I have on my HDMI input channel. This makes 1080i Component and HDMI look the same (with Game Mode off).

Now, once I turn Game Mode on I then go back to the settings and manually improve the visuals. For me that was increasing Sharpness and Picture values way up. I have them quite a bit lower in HDMI mode because my set is tweaked to get the best, natural look in Blu-ray movie visuals, so for gaming I never maxed these values before.

With Game Mode on, that helped a lot. I also upped my Detail Enhancer setting up to Medium. Everything else (so far) I left the same. Doing this made the game look crisp again, and since I'll never use Component for movie watching, I upped the Color setting some to give the graphics even more punch. I have the option for Game Mode on/off on the screen, and with the game paused I flip back and forth and can now see no difference.

BTW, you can have Component and HDMI cables connected at all times... there's never a reason to plug/unplug. Also you can keep HDMI for sound if you want Component for graphics. You can also use Component to make some PS1 and PS2 480i games that get messed up by the PS3 look better.

To do this, in the Component display menu on the XBR, select ONLY 1080i and 480i. For progressive mode PS2 games like God of War, select that setting in the title and it'll still come out at 480P. Interestingly though, HDMI makes these old games fill the wide screen at 16x9 while in Component they are 4:3. Anyone know how to fix this?

SUMMARY (so far):

For the SXRD XBR1, you can play in HDMI with Direct mode ON and it will play and look fantastic for at least 98% of your 1080P titles (I still need to double confirm lack of lag). If you go to Component you are guaranteed input perfection as long as you select Game Mode ON, but you may need to tweak the XBR1's graphic settings to make it sharp and clear. I'll update the first post with this info.

Joeblow, I'm still curious, is this "Joe King" from Cali? Just a long shot but after hanging out in #tkn and #tekken for so long I ended up discussing HDTVs at length with joeking, thought maybe you were the same guy.

Nope, sorry.

Thanks Joe for your impressive contributions to this thread!

I'm eagerly awaiting Tekken to appear on the US Store for download. I have my component cables connected to my Dad's XBR1 so I can move my PS3 between houses easily. I have never tested game mode.

One note on DIRECT MODE. CineMotion (2:3 pulldown detection) is not engaged in DIRECT MODE. Make sure you turn DIRECT MODE off when viewing Blu-ray movies or other HDTV 24 FPS sources. I use DIRECT MODE for viewing 1080i sports programming and PS3 gaming.

I notice when using my SXRD in direct mode the deinterlacing isn't nearly as crisp or sharp.

I did, however, have the same results with MUCH less lag, so it's doing what it's supposed to be doing.

I ran it at 1080i via hdmi with Direct Mode on and off. With it off you can definitely feel the lag. Turning it on and I could do everything that I wanted to (minus the fact that i'm forced to using the ps3 controller which I hate for tekken, never been a pad warrior).

Also ran it in 720p with Direct Mode on/off and couldn't really tell that much of a difference.

After I got my PS3, I moved my ps2 slimline into another room and really didn't feel like unhooking the component cables. My HDMI tests seem to mimic JoeBlow's results so I feel comfortable in assuming that running component would feel the same.

JoeBlow: Aside from hitting 'Zoom' on the controller to fix GoW over component, not sure if there is a solution. If i recall the PS2 handled going into progressive the same way. We are doing some tests right now with God of War 2 running progressive mode which have been damn impressive so far.

Derek Daniels
http://lowfierce.blogspot.com

Thanks Marc... I'll keep that in mind. I don't know what half of the settings do, lol.

omnisxrd: I hate using a pad as well. What you may want to try is contacting this guy:

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?action=showpost&postid=2853048

Japan has at least one brand of USB-->PS2 converters that are confirmed to work with all PS2 controllers on the PS3 withOUT having to have an analog button. As some of you know, all other converters require an analog button to simulate the PS3's PS button, but most joysticks don't come with that.

This guy is sending me and other Tekken players two of these things so we can use our own controllers. Besides payment for the product and shipment, I kicked in a little extra for his troubles. I'll have mine next week to test first hand, but you may want to order some now.

Hey joeblow--don't we need test results from a XBR2 to confirm lag is specific to XBR1 1080i-p conversion?

Does the XBR2 still have Game Mode? Too lazy to check myself right now. :D

Hey joeblow--don't we need test results from a XBR2 to confirm lag is specific to XBR1 1080i-p conversion?

It's native 1080P input. There is no conversion. Just set your PS3 for 480P, 720P and 1080P in HDMI then you are good to go for almost anything.

XBR2 wouldn't need game mode, except maybe for old 480i games from early consoles perhaps. That's component only BTW. I guess Direct mode is the only thing you can try for HDMI, but since my PS2 games run fine in 480i or 480P on the XBR1, I don't see this as an issue.

It's native 1080P input. There is no conversion. Just set your PS3 for 480P, 720P and 1080P in HDMI then you are good to go for almost anything.

So is RR7 though, right?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought the conclusion based on your tests was that for the XBR1, Tekken was controller-laggy because of the time it takes for the XBR1 to convert 1080i to p. (HDMI)

I guess my question is, is it simply a limitation on XBR1, or is it sluggish at 1080p on a XBR2? Further, is it possibly the game itself that does not perform well at 1080p? (HDMI)

Cheers

I notice when using my SXRD in direct mode the deinterlacing isn't nearly as crisp or sharp.
On the XBR1, DRC processing [artificially] sharpens the image. DIRECT MODE essentially disables DRC and is basically equivalent to running DRC Palette at 1,1.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought the conclusion based on your tests was that for the XBR1, Tekken was controller-laggy because of the time it takes for the XBR1 to convert 1080i to p. (HDMI) Exactly

I guess my question is, is it simply a limitation on XBR1, or is it sluggish at 1080p on a XBR2?Simply XBR1. You can probably create the same lag on the XBR2 by inputing 1080i instead of 1080p...but why would you?

Simply XBR1. You can probably create the same lag on the XBR2 by inputing 1080i instead of 1080p...but why would you?

I'm curious if there's lag with XBR2 @ 1080p input.

Just seems odd to me that this game is sticking out as problematic @ 1080i where joeblows (awesomely informative) tests with other games @ 1080i were in the clear.

*shrug*

I'm curious if there's lag with XBR2 @ 1080p input.

Just seems odd to me that this game is sticking out as problematic @ 1080i where joeblows (awesomely informative) tests with other games @ 1080i were in the clear.

*shrug*
Jehu, read Joe's original post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8951718&&#post8951718) of this thread for detailed info as to why lag is problematic for games like Tekken and not for others like Gran Turismo and Ridge Racer. 720p and 1080p input should not suffer from these problems since they don't require the additional processing 1080i does. Since neither Joe nor I own the XBR2, you will have to do your own testing to confirm with 1080p input on the XBR2. Tekken should be available in the US Store in the next 2 weeks.

Ok, thanks! :)

The reason I couldn't "feel" the input lag problems in the other 1080P games is because they are not precise-frame dependent like a fighting game. The input lag is there but it's not obvious.

Understand that even with Tekken the lag might only be felt by those who play a LOT and know what it should play like. Even at worse, it is barely perceptible unless you need it to be 100% perfect. That's why I couldn't tell in other games.

So with RR7 for instance, I've finished 95% of the game even though I had slight input lag the entire time. Maybe now I'll finish off the last 5%. :D

Forgive me if I missed it, but I don't have the energy to read 4 pages of posts, especially after the Chargers lost. I just hooked up my new PS3 to the 60XBR1 and was shocked to discover that the HDMI on the XBR1 does not accept 1080p input. Any way to modify or work around this, or do I have to lose a fortune and buy an XBR2? Is there an XBR3 in the works yet?

Forgive me if I missed it, but I don't have the energy to read 4 pages of posts, especially after the Chargers lost. I just hooked up my new PS3 to the 60XBR1 and was shocked to discover that the HDMI on the XBR1 does not accept 1080p input. Any way to modify or work around this, or do I have to lose a fortune and buy an XBR2? Is there an XBR3 in the works yet?


On this very page at least you would have saw a response stating that it doesn't. The XBR1 has never been able to recieve 1080P. Only the XBR2 LCOS, A2000 LCOS, and XBR2 and XBR3 LCD's from Sony can reciever 1080P through the HDMI. All these displays including the XBR1 can display 1080P so in the end regardless you are playing in 1080P.

I just hooked up my new PS3 to the 60XBR1 and was shocked to discover that the HDMI on the XBR1 does not accept 1080p input.

No offense, but its really sad that someone spends so much money on a set and doesnt know this.

I think it has alot to do w/ being misled by Sony when the XBR1 first came out. In fact I bought mine from Magnolia and they didn't even know (allegedly) that it couldn't input 1080p until I informed them. Most do not keep up on this stuff. All of us buy something from time to time where we thought it could do one thing but it doesn't yada yada....

I think it has alot to do w/ being misled by Sony when the XBR1 first came out. In fact I bought mine from Magnolia and they didn't even know (allegedly) that it couldn't input 1080p until I informed them. Most do not keep up on this stuff. All of us buy something from time to time where we thought it could do one thing but it doesn't yada yada....
Yes, but if he is on this website trying to find out how to input 1080p to his set, don't you think he should of came here to do a little research on his $4k investment before going out and buying his set? FWIW, I never take a salesman's word on electronics, especially high end stuff. Not always, but a lot of the time they say what needs to be said to make the sale.

....I don't have the energy to read 4 pages of posts
This laziness (along with all the cheerleading, trolling, and fanboy-itis) has really soured me on this forum. I use to be regular contributor on the Rear Projection TV forum, compiling tweaks and FAQs for several different dispalys. After all that work, no one wanted to read. Everyone would just repost questions that had already been asked and answered. I hate to see this same thing happen to joeblow, but I guess it is simply inevitible on these internet forums.

Sorry for ranting.

Marc

Reading all the directmode on off stories, can someone recommend a good link here or elsewhere for the settings for Pro mode that seem to produce the best results? I have directmode off all the time but I notice that DRC is set to mode 1. This seems to contradict what someone said about directmode since it artifically simulates sharpness according to the post.

I know ever TV is probably different but with my XBR1 60 I used 2 of the DVD calibration videos when I got it and here is what I came up with. I would like to try others, but I am no pro and some of them are not explained anywhere in the manual and are difficult to research.

Here is what I have in Pro mode- please make suggestions since some may offset others?...

iris-4
picture-58
brightness-34
color-31
hue-0
sharpness-35
color-Neu
noise-medium
DM- off
DRC- cinemotion
DRC Pal- custom 3 (reality 40, clarity 85)
BN smoother- off (greyed out)
Adv iris-low
color correction-high
DTE-med
Clear white-on
Detail enhancer- med
BL correct-med
Gamma-high
white bal- all 0

Thanks SOOOOOO much. As I said, how would one know how to set all these without hiring someone locally (SE Michigan)

how does blu ray look on the xbr1? I'm about to buy a ps3 and just want to make sure that the "1080p" blu ray will look good on my "only 10801 upscaling" 50 inch xbr1.

thanks guys!

how does blu ray look on the xbr1? I'm about to buy a ps3 and just want to make sure that the "1080p" blu ray will look good on my "only 10801 upscaling" 50 inch xbr1.

thanks guys!

One word: Killer! I have a 50XBR1 also which was ISF'd by Jeff Meier (umr) and BD looks awesome scaled to 1080p! You'll love it!

BTW: I'm running with Direct Mode on.

On this very page at least you would have saw a response stating that it doesn't. The XBR1 has never been able to recieve 1080P. Only the XBR2 LCOS, A2000 LCOS, and XBR2 and XBR3 LCD's from Sony can reciever 1080P through the HDMI. All these displays including the XBR1 can display 1080P so in the end regardless you are playing in 1080P.

IMO my 50XBR1 wouldn't look any better if I could feed it 1080p direct. The scaler in the XBR1 is very good and any difference would be very minimal.

mboojigga is correct, in the end everything your watching on the XBR1 is 1080p regardless.

so a little off topic, but what are 1 or 2 high quality blu ray titles out there that i should rent/buy to show off the new player?

Crank, Kingdom of Heaven, Black Hawk Down, Monster House are my favorites. Otherwise check the Blu-ray Software Tier Thread.

how well does the ps3 handle the upconversion of standard DVD? (i.e. progressive scan)

does it actually make regular dvds look any better?

so a little off topic, but what are 1 or 2 high quality blu ray titles out there that i should rent/buy to show off the new player?


I would add these to UxiSXRDs' list:

Pearl Harbor
Mission: Impossible 3
Tears Of The Sun

Oh noooooooooooooooooooes! I've been green blobbed! I'm getting it fixed, but don't want to derail this thread from the main topic. You can post comments on the SXRD XBR1 and the green blob in this thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9793072#post9793072).

On topic, I'll answer KG's question: the March PS3 firmware may have an update that allows DVD upconversion. Currently, it does not do so. My guess is they didn't want any early bad press about upconverted movies looking decent compared to Blu-ray, so they didn't allow it at launch. In the end, Blu-ray is better of course, but some upconverted DVDs (latest Star Wars flicks) look extremely good if you aren't too close to see the dithering and subtle lack of sharpness.

Problem solved... Sony's giving me a 60" SXRD XBR2 replacement. Since it's a full 1080P HDTV (input and output), I doubt I'll be able to add any more to this thread. Hopefully it helped some of you though, and thanks for the feedback that helped me as well.

I just got a PS3 yesterday. I have it connected via HDMI to my Yamaha RX-V2600 HDMI 7.1 Receiver and then to my R60XBR1. When I first turned on the PS3 it downloaded and installed the 1.60 update. Then when it came back up it noticed the HDMI and automatically configured it for 1080i. So far it seems to be working fine. I take it 1.60 fixed some issues that people were having earlier in this thread?

I just got a PS3 yesterday. I have it connected via HDMI to my Yamaha RX-V2600 HDMI 7.1 Receiver and then to my R60XBR1. When I first turned on the PS3 it downloaded and installed the 1.60 update. Then when it came back up it noticed the HDMI and automatically configured it for 1080i. So far it seems to be working fine. I take it 1.60 fixed some issues that people were having earlier in this thread?

The resolutation probs were actually fixed with one of the first patches. 1.60 is the 5th or so.

I have a question about the movie trailers you can download from the Playstation Store. They have some in HD and some in 1080P HD. For us R5-60XBR1 owners does the 1080P version look any better? I tried downloading both versions of the MotorStorm developers trailer and didn't see a difference.

Also, what version of HDMI is in the R60XBR1? 1.1, 1.2?

What settings are you using for your PS3 now that firmware update 1.80 is out?

The same ones that the PS3 automatically chose when I first connected it which is 1080i. I have it connected to my R60XBR1 via HDMI. PS2 games sure look better. Be sure to set the PS1/PS2 settings to full screen. I am glad they allow you to connect to a media server as the Xbox 360 does. Now I can stream my photos, mp3's etc... from my PC.

With my knowledge of computers and such I would pose the untested opinion that if the Sony TV runs turns 1080i into 1080P then it seems to me that for game performance it would be best to run them at 1080i on the PS3 since a typical video card is going to be a hell of a lot faster at that resolution. Maybe I could see some lag on the *tv* side but that game system is going to run much faster period.

AS any PC gamer will know. A game run at a 1080i resolution will dominate perf a game run at a 1080p resolution (ever been on a Wow 40 man raid). If the TV gives you 1080P for free then its logical to me.


Lets take wow, a video card like a GF7800GTX running 720p can run it at say 75-100 fps while only be at 40-60 fps at 1080p. Start putting a huge load on it and the fps on 1080p will degrade fast.

My 50" sxrd is running great at the auto detected 1080i, the 720p and 480p boxes are also checked. The game mode option is grayed out. Can you run game mode when using the PS3?

With my knowledge of computers and such I would pose the untested opinion that if the Sony TV runs turns 1080i into 1080P then it seems to me that for game performance it would be best to run them at 1080i on the PS3 since a typical video card is going to be a hell of a lot faster at that resolution. Maybe I could see some lag on the *tv* side but that game system is going to run much faster period.

AS any PC gamer will know. A game run at a 1080i resolution will dominate perf a game run at a 1080p resolution (ever been on a Wow 40 man raid). If the TV gives you 1080P for free then its logical to me.


Lets take wow, a video card like a GF7800GTX running 720p can run it at say 75-100 fps while only be at 40-60 fps at 1080p. Start putting a huge load on it and the fps on 1080p will degrade fast.

Most video frame rendering buffers do not render in interlaced mode which is why on video game consoles, typically to do 1080i you have to do 1080p. So you won't get any performance boost trying to output 1080i over 1080p.

Great News for XBR1 50" and 60 " owners:

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/news-item.pl?mdl=KDSR60XBR1&news_id=185

I really did not know where to put this. Good news. Nothing wrong with a free 3-year extended warranty.

Great News for XBR1 50" and 60 " owners:

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/news-item.pl?mdl=KDSR60XBR1&news_id=185

I really did not know where to put this. Good news. Nothing wrong with a free 3-year extended warranty.

I took advantage of this about a month ago.

I took advantage of this about a month ago.


Same here but I am actually about to get the new 60A3000 and give the 60" XBR1 to my parents

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665153957