Hello there,

I am currently building a new place, and would like to get some inputs on being able to pre-wire it for home automation use. It is currently in the digging stage, so the foundation should start shortly. I have till January to sort everything out, but would like to get everything figured out beforehand. Here is what I am looking for with regards to the different zones I am planning.

Zone 1 - Home Theater Room- With Panny projector, NAD receiver, 6.1 setup, HD Satellite, XBOX 360 w hd dvd, and hopefully some kind of digital media server

Zone 2 - Living Room - TV w/ 2 speaker, Satellite, DVD player, and hopefully a digital media server

Zone 3 - Kitchen - Audio Only - With AM/FM/XM Tuner,Digital media server, iPOD dock

Zone 4 - Bedroom - TV w/2 Speakers, Satellite, DVD player, and digital media server

Zone 5 - Outside Patio, am/fm/xm tuner, digital media server

I would also like to add both heat and irrigation controls to the system.

Now I know that if I place all the equipment in my basement, with a CQC type setup I am able to control it all and distribute it across the house. For now I am looking for some advice on how to wire everything in the house. I really want this to be a DIY project for our new place, and not have to pay someone to come in and do everything. I would also like to keep most wiring to CAT5 for obvious cost reasons. I have seen a couple CAT5 to YPbPr converters, but am unaware of the quality of these cables.

Any advice anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated.

Specific Questions -

1) What is the easiest way to distribute the Video and Sound to each of the zones?

2) Can a HTPC be used for the digital media server - the same PC that CQC would be installed on? Am I able to get seperate music feeds for at least 3 zones? What type of equipment would be required?

I am sorry that I am quite a newbie with regards to all of this, and have posted quite a few questions. I appreciate any help that anyone can give me.

I just got some cool zWave stuff in which i'm testing out, so i'll give you a longer response after I get this stuff working.

1) Homerun everything wherever possible. run all speaker wire from room to an inwall location where you might do an inwall VC or touchpanel, then back to a central location. For video, run component also back to a central location. Frankly, even contemplate putting the Z1 receiver in that central location, and simply remote control it. HT's look cool with tons of stuff, but they look even cooler when they perform to perfection and there's no equipment in sight.
2) Based on what you want to do, you may want to keep CQC to a seperate PC. HTPC's tend to be mucked with, to get the best display/PQ/etc, and a changing environment like that is bad for stability purposes. I used to run my whole setup on an AMD2500 w/512MB RAM, and that included the SageTV server.

Here's an overly complex and ugly diagram that doesn't take local PCs into account. Read through this, i'll be back in a bit. Please note: You do not have to actually buy the equipment indicated below - you have many many many other options. This is just meant as a representation of a collection of equipment that could work, and is meant to begin the information overload of how wiring could work.



http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/temp/option_4.jpg






In addition, here's my personal scorecard. The Homeworks #s are straight-up wrong, it's actually more like $15K, which really means I need to save for a few more months before I can afford it. But, the increase in crime locally plus building up the case for doing it is the reason i'm putting in zWave right now.


http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/temp/scorecard.JPG

That's good stuff IVB. I'm surprised there isn't more posts like yours from others. I've been looking for good diagrams for a while and haven't really found much.

Thanks from the new guys...

Chris

That's good stuff IVB. I'm surprised there isn't more posts like yours from others. I've been looking for good diagrams for a while and haven't really found much.

Thanks from the new guys...

Chris

I very much appreciate the info as well. Got a ton of questions for you, so I think I will post them a few at a time, first to make it easier on you, and hopefully to make it easier for new users thinking of doing the same.

Could you use the UNOST2 Panels in each room, and still be able to see what song is playing on your HTPC and change them according to artist/album/playlist? Or would you need Rossound own Digital Media Server?

Second, what other products have you heard used, instead of the Rossound CAV66. Any that are cheaper? Any that carry component video?

I don't actually use the Russound, I got a steal of a deal on a Xantech ZPR68 so I went that route. It doesn't have amps, but I slowly picked them up on eBay as deals came up. Esp given that CQC has a bidirectional serial driver as part of the product, that was a no-brainer.

But, I hear the new russound driver for CQC has some pretty tight integration with the keypads. No need for the Russound Media server. Good question for the CQC forum, though.

You could look into getting an Autopatch. I know they have 4wire cards, which can distribute your HD video and digital audio. I went with 2 products, the Xantech ZPR to distribute the analog audio to the amps that power the house speakers, and an Autopatch to distribute component video.

Other options with native CQC drivers are the Xantec MRC88, Neothings, and a ton of others that are shown on the CQC.Learn.Supported devices page.

Ok, new idea: Let's modify that diagram above just for you, to really make this hit home. Are any zones other than Z1 a digital audio(ie 5.1) audio zone?

I don't actually use the Russound, I got a steal of a deal on a Xantech ZPR68 so I went that route. It doesn't have amps, but I slowly picked them up on eBay as deals came up. Esp given that CQC has a bidirectional serial driver as part of the product, that was a no-brainer.

But, I hear the new russound driver for CQC has some pretty tight integration with the keypads. No need for the Russound Media server. Good question for the CQC forum, though.

You could look into getting an Autopatch. I know they have 4wire cards, which can distribute your HD video and digital audio. I went with 2 products, the Xantech ZPR to distribute the analog audio to the amps that power the house speakers, and an Autopatch to distribute component video.

Other options with native CQC drivers are the Xantec MRC88, Neothings, and a ton of others that are shown on the CQC.Learn.Supported devices page.

Ok, new idea: Let's modify that diagram above just for you, to really make this hit home. Are any zones other than Z1 a digital audio(ie 5.1) audio zone?

Here is what I invision.

Zone 1 - Digital Audio and HDTV (Home theater room in basement)

Zone 2 - Digital Audio and HDTV (Living Room Television)

Zone 3 - Analog Audio and SDTV (Bedroom Television - 2 in ceiling or wall speakers)

Zone 4 - 4 speakers with analog only (all in ceiling, spread across the kitchen and living room - it's completely open between the kitchen/dining/living)

Zone 5 - 2 speakers (Patio speakers - with volume control in wall)

I am thinking that it would be easy to have a Fujitsu 3500 type setup for both Zone 4 and 5, and then hopefully everything else can be controlled through the TV Video. Zone 3 could be wired for HDTV, and considering we have the option might veryl well be a smart idea. If I am to store DVD's on a file server, I would like the quality to be nice video wise leaving the server.

Sorry for the delay, i may have deleted the source file for the jpg attached above, I may have to build your diagram from scratch.

Good practice though, hopefully will help several folks get their minds around the wiring, regardless of which HA package they go with.

Ok, here goes. Hopefully no mistakes in the above, although i'm sure my colleagues will point them out if I did. I made some assumptions and judgement calls about how to do your system, you may want to go a different way. Think of this more as an exercise in learning rather than the god-gospel-blueprint as to how to do your system.

My overall guiding principle is always to minimize the amount of equipment in each room. 1 area that I kept waffling about was dealing with local video sources, so I thought i'd document one each way.

Look at the difference between Z1 & Z2/4 for the local DVD players. In one case, your local receiver is physically in the room, so the DVD player can just send it to that, and it works like a regular setup. Option 2 is to put that 2105 in the central closet and wire it just like Z2/4 where the audio from the local DVD player is wired back to that room, but I didn't know how you wanted to do this. Option 2 is what's more prevalent out there for folks who are designing things like these, but it doesn't always make sense of the folks who are new to it.

The biggest difference between option 1 & 2 is where the speaker wiring gets sent to. Option 1 is not a fully centralized system, but rather than make that decision for you, I figured I'd show you both paths and let you pick.

BTW, I used AVSnap, a free downloadable program to build this. If you want the source file, let me know and i'll email it to you.

http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/temp/bauer83.JPG

Thanks so much for the help. After taking your advice and spending a lot of times on the forums, I have managed to put together a plan that is almost identical to yours.
I am going to send a digital audio signal to the living room. To have a typical 3 piece setup there is not going to be an issue, but I will also be able to view my HTPC and most likely added later HD DVD/BD/DVD changer. Or whatever ends up happening with that war.

I have actually already started two pieces to my UI, and just need to go out and start purchasing the computer products for my server.

Now I did want to ask, is there a benefit to running a sage tv server when your only source for HDTV is from a digital satellite box. I live in Canada, so we have no OTA HDTV.

The other question I had, was if I am going with a Russound CAM66 setup, why would I run an 18/2 wire to the keypad? Maybe I missed something on the keypad instructions.

Now I did want to ask, is there a benefit to running a sage tv server when your only source for HDTV is from a digital satellite box. I live in Canada, so we have no OTA HDTV.

If you want to DVR shows then playback later from a central location, you'd want a means to do that. The upside CQC (will hopefully soon) have over networked TIVO's is that the driver developer is working on how to toss the Sage UI, and use a CQC screen to select TV shows for playback. Same basic approach as for CDs and DVDs, which means you'll be able to have a screen with receiver/other device control as well as TV selection. No way can Tivo or Cinemar's one-way user-faking-input-control mechanism for SageTV even come close to matching that level of functionality.

The other question I had, was if I am going with a Russound CAM66 setup, why would I run an 18/2 wire to the keypad? Maybe I missed something on the keypad instructions.

Future-proof, if you ever want to replace that with a touchpanel, you'll need a power source. CAT5 for hardwired connection, 18-2 for power.

If you want to DVR shows then playback later from a central location, you'd want a means to do that. The upside CQC (will hopefully soon) have over networked TIVO's is that the driver developer is working on how to toss the Sage UI, and use a CQC screen to select TV shows for playback. Same basic approach as for CDs and DVDs, which means you'll be able to have a screen with receiver/other device control as well as TV selection. No way can Tivo or Cinemar's one-way user-faking-input-control mechanism for SageTV even come close to matching that level of functionality.


Future-proof, if you ever want to replace that with a touchpanel, you'll need a power source. CAT5 for hardwired connection, 18-2 for power.

Ahh, right after I wrote that, I figured that was the case. Again thanks once again, and I really do appreciate the information. If you can PM the login and password to your demo tommorrow that would be greatly appreciated.

Ok, here goes. Hopefully no mistakes in the above, although i'm sure my colleagues will point them out if I did. I made some assumptions and judgement calls about how to do your system, you may want to go a different way. Think of this more as an exercise in learning rather than the god-gospel-blueprint as to how to do your system.

My overall guiding principle is always to minimize the amount of equipment in each room. 1 area that I kept waffling about was dealing with local video sources, so I thought i'd document one each way.

Look at the difference between Z1 & Z2/4 for the local DVD players. In one case, your local receiver is physically in the room, so the DVD player can just send it to that, and it works like a regular setup. Option 2 is to put that 2105 in the central closet and wire it just like Z2/4 where the audio from the local DVD player is wired back to that room, but I didn't know how you wanted to do this. Option 2 is what's more prevalent out there for folks who are designing things like these, but it doesn't always make sense of the folks who are new to it.

The biggest difference between option 1 & 2 is where the speaker wiring gets sent to. Option 1 is not a fully centralized system, but rather than make that decision for you, I figured I'd show you both paths and let you pick.

BTW, I used AVSnap, a free downloadable program to build this. If you want the source file, let me know and i'll email it to you.

Ok I love the diagram. Great job.

I have Verizon Fios, VCR and DVD and HTPC(w/ DVD Lobby) that I would like to go to a HDTV that will be wall mounted with 5.1 in-wall speakers.

Questions: Everything I have is Cat5 so I want to have all the speaker wire pulled to a spot and a keypad there which will be connected thru CAt5 to the reciever downstairs. Is that possible am I understand that right?

When all this is connected to the HDTV how would I switch on the TV from either the VCR or DVD which are going to be in the basement?

IF I have the AA wallplate which will have either (Channel Vision or Xantech) IR reciver can it send it to multiple devices wich are in the basement?
And how do I route the HTPC to two rooms and can it be done simontenously?

IF I have the AA wallplate which will have either (Channel Vision or Xantech) IR reciver can it send it to multiple devices wich are in the basement?
Just a word of warning, another forum member and myself ran into trouble (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=764678&page=2&pp=30) using Channel Vision IR receivers with the AA wallplates. AA is looking into why these didn't work, but as far as I know they haven't resolved the problem yet. I initially went with the Channel Vision receivers since they were less expensive than Xantech, but had to move to Xantech in the end.

Good luck!
Murray

Questions: Everything I have is Cat5 so I want to have all the speaker wire pulled to a spot and a keypad there which will be connected thru CAt5 to the reciever downstairs. Is that possible am I understand that right?

Depends on the keypad and receiver, but probably. You may/not need 18-2 for power, based on the keypad.

When all this is connected to the HDTV how would I switch on the TV from either the VCR or DVD which are going to be in the basement?

don't understand that - do you want to play the VCR or DVD on a TV (ie, select that source)?

IF I have the AA wallplate which will have either (Channel Vision or Xantech) IR reciver can it send it to multiple devices wich are in the basement?

I don't have an AA wallplate, but MurrayW just answered this.

And how do I route the HTPC to two rooms and can it be done simontenously?
If both are HDTV's, you'd send component out from the HTPC to something like an autopatch switcher, which would distribute to as many rooms as you want. At that point it's just your basic source, so you just have to select which source you want for which room.

The component breakdown says 5 amps for $600. What kinds of amps are those? I assume that if you had more zones, you'd have gone with a multi-channel amp (like the Niles SI-1230)

don't understand that - do you want to play the VCR or DVD on a TV (ie, select that source)?
Right, how to select the source on each TV.

I don't have an AA wallplate, but MurrayW just answered this.
Hmm, what I mean is can a single receiver whether it be Xantech or Channel Vision recieve multiple singles for different equipment?

If both are HDTV's, you'd send component out from the HTPC to something like an autopatch switcher, which would distribute to as many rooms as you want. At that point it's just your basic source, so you just have to select which source you want for which room.

So a computer(which has DVD Lobby or something similar) for each HDTV I want to send it to?

New2Theater,
You would not need DVDLobby on each HTPC that will be doing video rendering. That is not to say that you can't, but that you don't have to. Many do, so that they can view their movie collection from a display device connected to that HTPC.

DVDLobby is a movie database, a user interface for selection of a movie, a movie browse, and a means to launch movie specific commands for Play as one example.

The renderer (both hardware like a Sony CX777ES changer or software like TheaterTek / Zoom Player for hard drive based movies) is typically bidirectionally controlled by DVDLobby / MainLobby Server software. DVDLobby doesn't "play" the movie, Just tells the "Player" to "Play" a certain movie at a certain location.

Here are some quickly built slides that provide some examples of ways to connect and control A/V equipment with MainLobby suite that might also answer some of your hardware interconnect questions:
www.cinemaronline.com/images/MLArchitecture.pdf

Feel free to post questions and I'll respond.

Thanx

Right I understand that. But what Im asking is if I want HTPC to different TV's do I need a PC for each TV?

Yes and no,
You can run a dual head VGA / DVI graphics card and put extended desktop across both monitors.
You could run a single VGA to a splitter (see Gefen and Matrox) to the multiple display monitors.

Recommended is a single HTPC per display.
Easy, powerful, flexible.

The component breakdown says 5 amps for $600. What kinds of amps are those? I assume that if you had more zones, you'd have gone with a multi-channel amp (like the Niles SI-1230)

They're a mix of Parasound zamps (2ch, 30wpc), Sherbourn 4ch, and a Rotel 6ch. Actually, I'm selling the Sherbourn and Rotel right now (posted a link on the CQC forum), and getting a Niles-1230 as I need 3 more amps and am *totally* out of space in my rack. It'll be lower wpc, but I cannot physically fit anything else into my rack.

Hmm, what I mean is can a single receiver whether it be Xantech or Channel Vision recieve multiple singles for different equipment?

Yes, most of the xantech or russound or .... amps have a different input signal per stereo pair, or can be bridged to send the same signal to multiple pairs. Obviously RTFM before you buy to make sure it can be configured to your specific needs.

Hi

I'm jumping on this thread as there are Xantech experts lurking here....

I'm thinking of using a 2-Zone Denon receiver coupled with the Xantech 686-10 to create a cheap and cheerful multi-zone solution.

Does the signal going into the 686 need to be amplified or is it best to amplify the the output from the 686? I'm really confused.

IVB, do you know if the Niles 1230 has a CQC driver? How do you control source and volume in each zone?

The Niles is just a multichannel amp. You need a seperate pre-amp to work with it which is what will control volume & source. I'll use my Xantech ZPR68 which does have a CQC RS232 driver.

If you need 6z or less, the russound is probably a better option.

IVB, I love your scorecard....

It might be helpful to give MSRPs on new equipment. Autopatch for $400 just doesnt happen much (Just for Ron!), even worse its hard to find 8x8 HD video options. Avalon 8x8 switches were around $1200 and I have learned that they have more flexibility (easier connectivity) then the autopatch.

Adding other options even new price tags would give people a price range between new and used. It would be cool to have a general spreadsheet for the range of costs and options. I know it would have helped me out 12 months ago during my planning stage.

I would have maybe spent 4K on the Audio Authority Matrix switch over cat5 instead of running RG6 everywhere to get component video. Cable management, cable install cost, finding the right autopatch equipment with enough zones and so on adds up.

Well, the issue with providing MSRP's for new is that:
1) Many times they're grossly exaggerated
2) That insinuates I'd buy this stuff new. No chance I'd have bought a ZPR68 new for $1000, but at $400 for the ZPR68, the EXP9, and 2 EXP9 zone cards, I loved it.

I went back & forth on the doc. Inititally it was a "How-To" guide, but there's just so many dang variables that it engendered much debate and folks questioned the credibility as I went down an inefficient path. That's where I ended up a "Case Study" type doc, where I just outline my path, and no one thinks i'm passing judgement on anybody else's path. For good or for bad, that's what I spent, the stuff that I bought.

It's hard to put in a lessons learned section - in your CAT5 vs component example, I haven't actually done both, so I can't tell you really if CAT5 is better. I know it costs more, and has simpler wiring runs, but without personally seeing the quality of the video, the durability of the equipment, and the speed of the protocol, I cannot recommend that path with a clear conscience. I know that running component works though, so I can talk about my difficulties there.

Absolutely make sure you run conduit from your central point (usually attic or basement) to every room. You can get PVC conduit for $12 for 50ft at your local home depot or lowes. COnduit is very important with how quickly technologies change in home automation/PC use. You want to be able to easily pull new cable.