http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/502/LOTR_the_two_towers_LLT.jpg

In the land of Low Frequency Effects, in the fires of Mount SubSonic, the Dark Lord Ssabripo forged in secret a master subwoofer, to control all low frequencies. And into this subwoofer, he poured his Sonotube, his Avalanche 18" XBL^2, and his will to dominate all audible and palpitable senses in these frequency ranges.

"'One Subwoofer to rule them all...
One Subwoofer to bind them in (flat) FR...
...In the Land of LFE where the Subsonic ranges lie...
These two subwoofers shall reproduce them all!'"

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f38/ssabripo/ava18%20sealed/LOTRreturnofquad-sealedking2.jpg

But the conquest to conquer the deepest of frequencies, nay deep into the realms of Minas Single digits, called for the return of the one true heir to the throne of LFE: the quad XBL^2 motor king.


Phase I:
Ok, enough of the cheesy intros..... much more info in the upcoming days/weeks. My partner in Crime Chasw98 and I shall begin construction on the towers as soon as time permits and parts are all here. Thus far, I've decided to go with either a 13hz or 12.3 hz tune, but nothing is set in concrete:
http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/57/457/2/22/12/2384222120037002257eUHFmD_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2384222120037002257eUHFmD) http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/53/753/6/42/63/2661642630037002257VADJRJ_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2661642630037002257VADJRJ)

The heart and soul of the project has arrived: a Pair of brand new Ascendant Audio Avalanche 18" drivers....dont ask how I got them or how much I payed for them....just know that I was lucky enough to land them. For about less than one single LMS5400 I was able to land both of these, so as much as I would have loved to be the first to build a pair of large Low Tuned EBS sonotube LLTs (insert favorite acronym here) using the TC drivers, this is a blessing in the sky that such made to fit drivers like these appeared in the sky! heheh.

Yes, the suckers are HUGE, and if the relatively modest AV15 was able to reproduce bass of the quality and magnitude as my DIY box did, I can only imagine what these two towers will do! Some eye candy for you fellas now:

http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/61/161/3/93/8/2958393080037002257QuDwDX_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2958393080037002257QuDwDX)http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/10/11/3/91/46/2290391460037002257hGgZiJ_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2290391460037002257hGgZiJ)http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/42/42/6/48/94/2161648940037002257SBYnDE_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2161648940037002257SBYnDE)

As I finalize the tune point, and get more parts in, and construction begins at Chuck's, we will post it up for you......

Phase II:
with the towers in full place, we decided to go with a quad sealed setup to try how it would differ not only in output, but also what the acoustic differences would be, and what the extension would be.

Please goto Page 32 (click here) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11138890#post11138890) for the rest of the story.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f38/ssabripo/ava18%20sealed/img002.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f38/ssabripo/ava18%20sealed/img013.jpg

Man oh man, I didn't expect to see that! :p
I hate you sherv lol...

Well, i cant wait to see this project completed along with your impressions ;)

BTW, Nice eye candy. I haven't seen a naked Ava driver in a few months since its been in a box.

So Sherv,

You're just a Steve Callas wanna-be???

:P

So Sherv,

You're just a Steve Callas wanna-be???

:P
What do you mean wanna-be? I think I just saw Steve run and hide. :D

Sherv, I suggest you lose the LLT name and call them what they are, EBS. ;) I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with! They should be awesome! Big drivers, big boxes, what's not to like?

Stay away from Steve callas, his advice lead to this :

http://www.wolfgame.org/low.JPG
http://www.wolfgame.org/Right.JPG (thats just one of them).
Words alone cannot describe what these things mean to me in terms of improvement over my old HT in-a-box. The best part isnt the music, but when people see it with a weird look on their face, and ask "What the **** is that??"

This simpsons clip explains what the goals of most DIY sonosub builders truely is:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tQyKXj81v4k

ssabripo, keep us updated on the two-towers. Ive always asked myself... what if. What if I bought the 18s, or even something like clarions 34" drivers? regardless, those 18's in a sonosub will claim bragging rights.

Sherv, you are my hero. :D

Now this is going to make me want to go to Chuck's place for sure! Please tell me when construction starts I am DEFINITELY going to be there.

I am in subwoofer withdrawal..... (I have my Rythmik amp being upgraded and HP installed back in Texas..... and four 18" woofers sitting next to me in boxes that I can't use because I am ampless... words alone cannot describe my pain) http://smiliesftw.com/x/wtcrun.gif

So....two Ava18's, huh?

I hate you.

i see what you did there

So....two Ava18's, huh?

I hate you.

:D Hahaha, the collective feeling of everybody on the boards: http://smiliesftw.com/x/squintfinger.gif

Sherv,

When you give out the 9 subwoofers to the race of men I want to be one of the recipients :D

hehe...thanks fellas...you guys crack me up. :p

Most parts are in order....the biggest lagger is the actual 28" sonotube, as it is still a coupl of weeks away :(

The amp situation is a bit in limbo too as Chuck and I are discussing the EP2500 situation...so we may have to order a new one, or something.

Well...

Over here in Tumultville, we call those drivers AvaLUNCH :D And, when ya got 8 Tummies...ya got about 12dB headroom over the Twhimp Towers :eek: :eek:

Make sure that amp you get has no output below 15Hz, you know how those giant tube ported subs are unable to repro the first 2 octaves ;) :D

Bosso

Well...

Over here in Tumultville, we call those drivers AvaLUNCH :D And, when ya got 8 Tummies...ya got about 12dB headroom over the Twhimp Towers :eek: :eek:

Make sure that amp you get has no output below 15Hz, you know how those giant tube ported subs are unable to repro the first 2 octaves ;) :D

Bosso

Oh snap, Sherv, you gonna take that from him? :p

now now Jack....play nice! :D

surely I wont be able to touch 8 15" tumults with goozles of power and Bassis, variable Q, etc, etc....... But then again, I didn't spend half a mortgage on it :p :D

heheh....yes, the amp thing is still in limbo. I'm still eyeing the modded EP2500 as it does a superb job at the price, but I gotta admit that I'm thinking hard about splurging a little and going with this crown K2(what do you think Bosso?):
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/k.htm

yes, a bit overkill, but fanless design, excellent THD and NR levels, and should be able to handle abuse for years.

ps- oh yeah, as far as I'm concerned, there doesn't exist any 8 tumult sealed systems out there....that's all vaporware :p .....no pics, no believe! hehehehe. C'mon man, send me that info! it's been over a year now! :o

The return of the King or a King wanna-be?.. I think I'll side with a true King in the making:p Your only as good as the people around you and the people that serve under you, so I humbly bow my head knowing that your Two Tower's will cut a swath and rule like no Two Tower's ever have.
Some eye candy for you fellas now:
I'll say, my eyes are so full of sugar that I can barely write! I only expect it to get worse knowing your propensity in posting pics.
ps- oh yeah, as far as I'm concerned, there doesn't exist any 8 tumult sealed systems out there....that's all vaporware .....no pics, no believe! hehehehe. C'mon man, send me that info! it's been over a year now!
mmmm.. You know I never thought of that lol. Bosso???? :D

...Coming soon to a Forum near you :cool:

Ssab...you are da man. You'll see it first, I assure you.

I've been hesitant to show pics for reasons that will become immediately obvious when they are published.

1. DriverVu.
2. Thru Vent Cooling.
3. 'T' Finish.
4. The all aluminum Silver Edition.
5. Hourglass 'box'.
6. ReBase/Stereo/Mono LFPreamp/Processor.
7. 2KW SMPS/Class D amp.
8. More you say??...we shall see... :D

Bosso

dont ask how I got them
So how'd you get them? :) Chad eventually cave in?

Stay away from Steve callas, his advice lead to this
I take it that's a good thing yes?

Over here in Tumultville, we call those drivers AvaLUNCH And, when ya got 8 Tummies...ya got about 12dB headroom over the Twhimp Towers
Yeah, yeah. For all intents and purposes, done right, he has more bass capability than he will ever need. I think he'll be more than fine without 1-10hz capability ;)


Three people make single driver Av18 LLT sonosubs, about 6 months between each, and now in the past couple of months (after the drivers have been discontinued for over a year) we get two people building two of them each. What the heck is going on?? :confused: :D

The return of the King or a King wanna-be?.. I think I'll side with a true King in the making:p Your only as good as the people around you and the people that serve under you, so I humbly bow my head knowing that your Two Tower's will cut a swath and rule like no Two Tower's ever have.

I'll say, my eyes are so full of sugar that I can barely write! I only expect it to get worse knowing your propensity in posting pics.

Well Stevenn....I'm taking your experience in high regard, as you've gone thru several designs in the last year, and you seem to be the happiest with the Sonotubes in terms of SQ....so this better pan out or I have no problems removing the sonotubes and putting them in a sealed enclosure with tons of power/eq/etc, if the SQ is not where I hope it ends up.

...Coming soon to a Forum near you :cool:

Ssab...you are da man. You'll see it first, I assure you.

I've been hesitant to show pics for reasons that will become immediately obvious when they are published.

1. DriverVu.
2. Thru Vent Cooling.
3. 'T' Finish.
4. The all aluminum Silver Edition.
5. Hourglass 'box'.
6. ReBase/Stereo/Mono LFPreamp/Processor.
7. 2KW SMPS/Class D amp.
8. More you say??...we shall see... :D

Bosso
now you are talking! :)......but still, you should share some of the goodies with an old friend! The only queues I have are descriptions by Ed Mullen, and visuals by imagining KGveteran's setup x 2 ! :p

So how'd you get them? :) Chad eventually cave in?
patience, perseverance, and contacts thru IASCA/Car audio days....Chad was instumental in all of this.

Three people make single driver Av18 LLT sonosubs, about 6 months between each, and now in the past couple of months (after the drivers have been discontinued for over a year) we get two people building two of them each. What the heck is going on?? :confused: :D
In my particular case, I got tired of waiting for the LMS5400, and frankly after doing simulation after simulation, and seeing how much better the ava18 does in this alignment as opposed to the 5400, it was a no brainer. For shits and giggles I would love to have been the early adopter for the TC stuff, but this opportunity i just could not pass by!!

Previous disagreements aside, I hope this turns out great for you. You going all in at 650 effective each, or trimming it down a bit? I noticed from your current sub's measurements that it doesn't look like your room yeilds too much gain down low, so you might wanna consider tuning a bit higher, I dunno.

Previous disagreements aside, I hope this turns out great for you. You going all in at 650 effective each, or trimming it down a bit? I noticed from your current sub's measurements that it doesn't look like your room yeilds too much gain down low, so you might wanna consider tuning a bit higher, I dunno.
yeah, they will be 600L+ each... 6'x28" sonos each.
As I mentioned, tuning is still not final, but I'm guessing I'll probably go with the 12.3 tune, maybe even lower...I modelled the 11hz and it looks pretty good with a slight decrease in overall headroom (barely noticeable) while yeilding good extension near single digits.

My room is not very acoustically friendly, but it yields slightly better gain down low than originally thought...bass traps and so on helped:
http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/59/59/5/82/39/2778582390037002257PBAphN_th.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2778582390037002257PBAphN)

Ah, man, I love your creativity! I wish I had that sort of thing in me - all I could come up with for my subs was Bakers Dozen. BORRRRINNGGG....

600L eh? That's going to take up alot of space. Make sure you post some pics!

Best,
Mark

Ah, man, I love your creativity! I wish I had that sort of thing in me - all I could come up with for my subs was Bakers Dozen. BORRRRINNGGG....

600L eh? That's going to take up alot of space. Make sure you post some pics!

Best,
Mark

Yeah Mark, when the heck are you going to put up some measurements for us to drool over???

Sherv, 6' x 30" wide............ :eek:

Do you guys ever feel that placement is an issue with such a tall sub ? I know corner loading can be an issue.Just wondering.

KG

Do you guys ever feel that placement is an issue with such a tall sub ? I know corner loading can be an issue.Just wondering.

KG
that's just one of the many questions I have that I'm waiting to check once I build these things.......as we progress with the completion, and subsequent measurements, etc, I will sure to share it in full detail in this thread.

Sherv, 6' x 30" wide............ :eek:
close, but yeah, you get the picture...they are HUGE suckers:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=295340&postcount=90
http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php4?attachmentid=7923

close, but yeah, you get the picture...they are HUGE suckers:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=295340&postcount=90
http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php4?attachmentid=7923

Hehehe - I just cannot stop grinning... :D :D :D

Yeah Mark, when the heck are you going to put up some measurements for us to drool over???

Sherv, 6' x 30" wide............ :eek:

Yeah, I have to get off my rear and finish these things up. So much stuff on the go though...

I'm taking your experience in high regard, as you've gone thru several designs in the last year, and you seem to be the happiest with the Sonotubes in terms of SQ....so this better pan out or I have no problems removing the sonotubes and putting them in a sealed enclosure with tons of power/eq/etc, if the SQ is not where I hope it ends up.
After going through all the work and trouble, I hope for your sake the Brotherhood grows one more strong and you don't find all your efforts sub-Par? If you do recall it was my advice that you build both (LLT, sealed) in your other Thread, but admittedly I base that advice on knowing what my bass needs, propensity and preferences are. With having a BASSIS I can get great bass with either. If a single 18" driver option correlates in difference between a 15" and a 18" as a 12" and a 15" (we know it does) then why two?

Your situation is different than mine, if I'm not mistaken your placement is going to be R-L...in that case the like dual is the only way to go if you want to utilize both drivers. Of course you know that and have decided to try out the LLT option first. I honestly feel your going to be quite impressed! Not just in the Two Towers SPL capability no doubt.. I think your going to be a little taken with the SQ.

If I had to pick the one design over the other it would be the LLT. It might give a little % on music, but imo it's darn close! For HT, well!.. you'll see:cool: You did the AV15 over your other option which went very well (if you recall I ran dual) and you have had no regrets no?

You could always build a sealed sono for a test, but know my $$ is respectfully on you favoring the LLT 3 to 1 odds.;) Anyway I really look forward to going through the build process and your impressions knowing that you'll be very forthcoming in sharing...way :cool: man.

close, but yeah, you get the picture...they are HUGE suckers:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=295340&postcount=90
http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php4?attachmentid=7923

Yeah, you're right, they ARE huge. I thought the largest size they came was 24" though. The company is based here in Winnipeg - I should swing down there for a tour.

Best,
Mark

After going through all the work and trouble, I hope for your sake the Brotherhood grows one more strong and you don't find all your efforts sub-Par? If you do recall it was my advice that you build both (LLT, sealed) in your other Thread, but admittedly I base that advice on knowing what my bass needs, propensity and preferences are. With having a BASSIS I can get great bass with either. If a single 18" driver option correlates in difference between a 15" and a 18" as a 12" and a 15" (we know it does) then why two?

Your situation is different than mine, if I'm not mistaken your placement is going to be R-L...in that case the like dual is the only way to go if you want to utilize both drivers. Of course you know that and have decided to try out the LLT option first. I honestly feel your going to be quite impressed! Not just in the Two Towers SPL capability no doubt.. I think your going to be a little taken with the SQ.
That's exactly correct....knowing my bass needs, and preferences, I'm looking for clean and accurate bass while reproducing deep extension; SPL levels are not my thing. Thus, after owning/listening to several alignments, I've found that my AV15 and Chuck's Sonotube gave the best reproduction thus far....south of an IB.

and therein lies the problem....As good as they are (our large EBS), they fall short of the musicality + extension of the IB, and thus, the next closest thing is to build large low tunes EBS tubes that will try to mimic the IB......how accurate that becomes, remains to be see. Perhaps I've been spoiled with the IB experience, but who knows.

One thing remains certain: i got several options with these drivers, so although I'm pretty sure the twin towers will blow me away in every aspect, if by chance they fall even slightly short of the best SQ I could possibly want, I have no problems putting them in sealed and throw a DCX2946 and lots of power at them.

If I had to pick the one design over the other it would be the LLT. It might give a little % on music, but imo it's darn close! For HT, well!.. you'll see:cool: You did the AV15 over your other option which went very well (if you recall I ran dual) and you have had no regrets no?
indeed....and ergo the direction of this project.

One big thing for me is unbiased experience, and you are one of the few who has been thru the different options and really has no quarrels in telling the pros/cons of each, so that is a good thing for me! ;) I know what the large EBS stuff can do (I got one, Chuck got one, etc), but nothing like seeing someone go thru the motions and get to experience it.

I really look forward to going through the build process and your impressions knowing that you'll be very forthcoming in sharing...way :cool: man.
yes...I look very much forward to seeing how this stuff pans out, and sharing it with you guys every step of the way.......I don't know how much "fun" it is for Chuck, but the old man is gonna go to war for me too...:p :D

We've been discussing the amp situation with Chuck, and we are thinking of trying this (at least at first):

use two (2) EP1500's, one for each sonotube. Since the Ava18's are dual 2 ohm VCs, thinking of running each 700W channel per voice coil, rather than running the VCs in series, etc. This way the amps run with less stress, and have slightly better THD%, etc.

We've been discussing the amp situation with Chuck, and we are thinking of trying this (at least at first):

use two (2) EP1500's, one for each sonotube. Since the Ava18's are dual 2 ohm VCs, thinking of running each 700W channel per voice coil, rather than running the VCs in series, etc. This way the amps run with less stress, and have slightly better THD%, etc.


Hey Shervin, I know a really good Divorce Attorney and it sounds like your gonna need one. :p

Hey Shervin, I know a really good Divorce Attorney and it sounds like your gonna need one. :p
hey man, I could always use a "team" of them...heheh :D

I'm already scoping 1-bedroom apts and studios around $500/mo just in case!! heheheh :p

Sherv, I thought you weren't after the insane SPLs? An Ep1500 per sono seems like overkill to say the least. Have you modeled with that much power? :p

yeah Exo....I already know its a bit overkill, but we have two EP1500s sitting there, so rather than buying an EP2500 or something, we probably gonna give this a try.

The EP1500s are rated 700W x2 @2ohms, so we could wire each VC as such, and drive them that way....we could limit the "gain", and have the suckers not break a sweat during normal operation, while having more than enough in the tank when demo'ing them ;)

it's all still just talk at this point though....thats why you guys are here, to give a brotha an extra set of thoughts or two! ;)

Yeah I doubt you'll run into excursion problems, not with two loafing along... 2 EP1500's will certainly provide more power than a single Ep2500 thats for sure. ;)

We've been discussing the amp situation with Chuck, and we are thinking of trying this (at least at first):

use two (2) EP1500's, one for each sonotube. Since the Ava18's are dual 2 ohm VCs, thinking of running each 700W channel per voice coil, rather than running the VCs in series, etc. This way the amps run with less stress, and have slightly better THD%, etc.

Hey Sherv,

The amps running 2 x 2 Ohm vs. bridged into 4 Ohm will be the same exact power demands from the amplifier. I would probably wire them in series and bridge so you don't have to worry about any possible channel level variations that would drive the coils slightly out of ballance. I don't see anything gained by driving the DVC's separately.

Sounds like a fun and BIG project. Enjoy!

What Seaton said.

Would one has to be worried about Le *2 when wired in series?

I'd run bridged, myself....but who cares?! This is gonna rock!

Can't wait for you to finish them, Sherv...

:D

Hey Sherv,

The amps running 2 x 2 Ohm vs. bridged into 4 Ohm will be the same exact power demands from the amplifier. I would probably wire them in series and bridge so you don't have to worry about any possible channel level variations that would drive the coils slightly out of ballance. I don't see anything gained by driving the DVC's separately.

Sounds like a fun and BIG project. Enjoy!
hehehe...sounds like great minds think alike: I got the same recommendation as well from Chad and Deon once I mentioned this, and they agree like you Mark :o

Behringer said the actual THD% levels of the amp drop slightly, but nothing that will be remotely affecting anything in the actual application.

yeah, so I may go with the bridged 4ohm load per amp, or a new EP2500 and just put them in series as a 4ohm load per sonotube..should be more than enough. who knows...who cares.

Have you thought about the buttkicker amps? 1 per tower would be another option.

I understand wanting to have overkill power available, but really, a sub of this magnitude requires very little power. Use two - gain efficiency - and the power demands are even less.

Sherv,
Going to be quite the project.

But, I just have to know how you got your wife's approval. If I remember right, last time she really drove some of your design decisions. Wasn't she the one who insisted on the silver cone? You got to tell us how you got her to allow two of these monsters in your room!

I'm only asking because I'm at the limit of my wife's limits. The diamond ear rings I gave here for our anversery back in August didn't get me very far. She agreed to Dualzilla, but any more projects are out of the question right now.

Have you thought about the buttkicker amps? 1 per tower would be another option.
Yeah, but probably wont happen...see below:
I understand wanting to have overkill power available, but really, a sub of this magnitude requires very little power. Use two - gain efficiency - and the power demands are even less.
there are two EP1500s sitting there right now that we will use to start...way more than enough power for this application (1400W bridged into 4ohm). We will start there, and turn gain down.

one reason for the need to go with something different like a single EP2500 or even even better, a Crown K2, etc, is to just have one physical box rather than two. It will go under the console table, so as bad as one may look, two will look even worse....momma wont like that. Additionally, the added fan noise of the second box is something I'm slightly worried, albeit the 1500s are modded for less fan noise.

given the fact that these 2 ep1500s are sitting there though, we probably will end up using them anyways....at least at first.
Sherv,
Going to be quite the project.

But, I just have to know how you got your wife's approval. If I remember right, last time she really drove some of your design decisions. Wasn't she the one who insisted on the silver cone? You got to tell us how you got her to allow two of these monsters in your room!

I'm only asking because I'm at the limit of my wife's limits. The diamond ear rings I gave here for our anversery back in August didn't get me very far. She agreed to Dualzilla, but any more projects are out of the question right now.
well, honestly, there was a lot of timing involved :p .....even so, when she listens to my current single sub at good levels, she complains, so I can't imagine the fights we will have when two of these beasts are up. :o

She is not fully convinced that I'm actually gonna keep them, so I gotta play my cards right.....the initial pass was given an ok, but I have a feeling we got a major fight coming up! :rolleyes:

She has been wanting to go to vacation to europe and turkey/israel for some time now, so I may have to plunk down on that next spring to appease things....I have a feeling that it will come down to that level of give to be able to take these tower's approval.

aint married life grand?????

you guys know anywhere where I can get my hands on 72" width automobile headliner material??? :(

the biggest I've found is 60" :mad:

Why don't you just use spray-on bedliner?

Why don't you just use spray-on bedliner?
headliner looks so much nicer....it's the pimp factor.

you guys know anywhere where I can get my hands on 72" width automobile headliner material???
mmm, that does present a little challenge doesnt it. I'm sure we can figure out something though.

mmm, that does present a little challenge doesnt it. I'm sure we can figure out something though.
yeah man....the largest width I've seen is 60", and I need 72". I dont know how bad the seam will be if I leave it at 60 and just add the section and put it in the back, so who knows....I'm still searching

yeah man....the largest width I've seen is 60", and I need 72". I don't know how bad the seam will be if I leave it at 60 and just add the section and put it in the back, so who knows....I'm still searching
You know that's not that bad of a idea considering your gonna have a seam anyway!..ok you would have two then. They still would be hid regardless, and you could take special care to make them as nice as possible.

I was sort of thinking about suggesting the prospect of incorporating some veneer on the top and bottom of the sono with stained hardwood caps to your liking? Three coats of the rub-on varathane and you would have a real looker. :cool: Now tell me that wouldn't be cool. :)

Hey Sherv, I'm going to see if this Saturday or Sunday I can make it to Chucks place.

If I can make it the plan will be this, manufacture a super-crude ultra barebones sealed enclosure for my measly 18's (not sure if I build just one and swap the drivers out to test them, or just build a giant sealed for 4 of the 18's with no SQ in mind.)

I'll give you all the details if once it's sorted out.

You know that's not that bad of a idea considering your gonna have a seam anyway!..ok you would have two then. They still would be hid regardless, and you could take special care to make them as nice as possible.

I was sort of thinking about suggesting the prospect of incorporating some veneer on the top and bottom of the sono with stained hardwood caps to your liking? Three coats of the rub-on varathane and you would have a real looker. :cool: Now tell me that wouldn't be cool. :)
yes indeed...that would be a killer look! :cool: I really hate the idea of seams to be honest. It wouldn't be "too" hidden. For example, here is the one seam on chuck's headliner in the back:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Subwoofer/Full_view.jpg
notice the line that goes vertically right tru the connector box.

Additionally, the max width is 60".....the circumference would be pi*28" = 88"

so, although I could get the headliner length to 3-4 yards to cover height, I would have two verrtical lines for the 28" section, and no matter how you sit, the seam would show :o The other alternative is to have one horizontal seam going all the way around for two sections in half.

The bedliner stuff doesn't look too bad, and may be the easiest thing to do at the end:
http://home.insightbb.com/~henry.menke/Sonosub_RLp-15_A.JPG http://home.insightbb.com/~henry.menke/Sonosub_RLp-15_B.JPG

Hey Sherv, I'm going to see if this Saturday or Sunday I can make it to Chucks place.

If I can make it the plan will be this, manufacture a super-crude ultra barebones sealed enclosure for my measly 18's (not sure if I build just one and swap the drivers out to test them, or just build a giant sealed for 4 of the 18's with no SQ in mind.)

I'll give you all the details if once it's sorted out.
Sounds good man!! unfortunately, I'm gonna be out this weekend to a friend's wedding in PR. I was planning on going to Chuck's house the following weekend to just hang out for a couple of hours and listen to his system upgraded to 7.1 using the Modula MT's.....if you wanna swing by then, we could kill two birds with one stone! :)

If not, we shall have plenty of other opportunities....this project won't get done in two weekends, I promise you! :o

Ok guys,

another update....looks like the amp thing was settled too! :) I got my hands on a used Crown K2, so it looks like it will be the guy powering the towers:
http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/53/753/9/9/22/2698909220037002257Goaddj_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2698909220037002257Goaddj)

I really liked this amp, albeit much more expensive than an EP2500, for several reasons:
1. Crown quality! and this is their flagship
2. Fanless/Noiseless
3. Much cooler, less heat dissipation
4. Automatic shutoff
5. did I mention fanless? :p

specs:
http://www.crownaudio.com/images/Kseries_stack.jpg http://www.crownaudio.com/images/k2power.gif
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/k.htm

One thing I noticed, which is a good thing and bad thing ( I wish it was user enabled), is that it has a 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter.....at my levels of play, specially with two towers, I wont be needing an HP, so I wish I could manually overide/disable it. But then again, the effects of an HP at 8hz are nowhere near audible. http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/ohnoes.gif

so, although I could get the headliner length to 3-4 yards to cover height, I would have two verrtical lines for the 28" section, and no matter how you sit, the seam would show The other alternative is to have one horizontal seam going all the way around for two sections in half.
How will the subs be located in the room? I have two vertical seams a few inches apart and I lined up the sock so that they are on the back by the binding posts. You can't see either seam from any vantage point in my room unless you stick your head back behind the sub. Obvious I know, but keep in mind that a 28" tube is a fair amount larger than a 20" tube, 40% larger, so a larger amount of surface area is facing away from you.

One thing I noticed, which is a good thing and bad thing ( I wish it was user enabled), is that it has a 8 Hz double integrated 3rd-order Butterworth high-pass filter.....at my levels of play, specially with two towers, I wont be needing an HP, so I wish I could manually overide/disable it. But then again, the effects of an HP at 8hz are nowhere near audible
That's probably not too much higher than where most other pro amps would have one anyway. Assuming you don't tune lower than 13hz, it doesn't look like it will affect anything usable. Assuming you do tune below 13hz, you could lose a little in room extension.

How will the subs be located in the room? I have two vertical seams a few inches apart and I lined up the sock so that they are on the back by the binding posts. You can't see either seam from any vantage point in my room unless you stick your head back behind the sub. Obvious I know, but keep in mind that a 28" tube is a fair amount larger than a 20" tube, 40% larger, so a larger amount of surface area is facing away from you.
the seating area will be to the right of the subs....for example:
http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/30/30/7/52/41/2007752410037002257ZHxbtV_th.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2007752410037002257ZHxbtV)
one tower will be right where the SVS ultra is in the pic, while the other one will probably be immediately to the left of the couch (south of the Ultra).....it will NOT be where the AV15 is right now, as that would block the only windows into that room, making it too dark during the day.

thus, unfortunately, the seams on the first tower could probably be hidden behind by facing the wall, but still visible when seating in the living room (there is an opening to the living room from this room....see below), and from across the chair to the right of the main seating area:
http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/50/150/6/26/83/471162683oLoCEL_th.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/1471162683037002257oLoCEL) (older pic, but you get the idea).


That's probably not too much higher than where most other pro amps would have one anyway. Assuming you don't tune lower than 13hz, it doesn't look like it will affect anything usable. Assuming you do tune below 13hz, you could lose a little in room extension.
correct. They usually hover around 5-10hz, but I just wished I could manually overide this thing. I was thinking of tuning at 11hz at one point, but that's gonna pick up the effects, so I may stick with the 12.4hz -> may have a tiny amount of impact from the HP but still not audible, while not losing too much headroom overall compared to 13hz:
http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/14/15/7/79/39/2358779390037002257bydayK_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2358779390037002257bydayK)

Sherv,
I normally don't hang out in the DIY section(no skills) but your project looks pretty damn good and intimidating :D. I was just wondering if you had any ideas on potential displacement for the 2 subs... er excuse me two TOWERS.

Sherv,
I normally don't hang out in the DIY section(no skills) but your project looks pretty damn good and intimidating :D. I was just wondering if you had any ideas on potential displacement for the 2 subs... er excuse me two TOWERS.
I dunno the exact amount of displacement to be honest, until it is done and I measure this thing. SteveC, JonW, and Nicol577 can tell you what a single one can do, so just add the dB for the second one.

normalized output looks like this for a single, vs dual, vs two sealed:
http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/54/154/4/35/90/2126435900037002257GKnLtj_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2126435900037002257GKnLtj)

It looks to be killer. I am getting into the nether regions my self, albeit a different way then you are. I am just not used to seeing expected output at 10Hz. I hope it all goes smooth for you.

It looks to be killer. I am getting into the nether regions my self, albeit a different way then you are. I am just not used to seeing expected output at 10Hz. I hope it all goes smooth for you.
hopefully....we shall see :)

If I am picturing this correctly ssabripo, why not have the seams face at like a 45 between the side wall and front wall on the south sub? That way, the only time you would really be able to see them is if approaching the space between the two subs in that front left corner. All other area facing into the room would be solid material.

Mike, displacement is 6.52 liters per driver peak to peak. Simply put, two of these ported towers will be able to put a *LOT of energy into the room. I'll be interested in hearing his own opinion of the bass, as the Avalanche 18 has a certain clean quality about it. The bass doesn't sound heavy or muffled, and it doesn't all sound the same. The Master and Commander scene in the middle of the movie where they fire off several cannons at once (not the early battle scene) that Jon demoed for me really stands out in my mind....it's just really clean bass.

Just like when comparing speakers, the differences between well recorded music and not so well recorded music is obvious, good bass and bad bass is obvious. An example is Sky Captain and the World of Tommorrow vs Monster House. Each has some extremely bassy footsteps in it. The ones kinda early by the robots in Sky Captain were pretty disappointing, they sound blehh and repetitive. The ones at the end of Monster House when the house grows legs are awesome - percussive and scary.

With music...well, to be honest, both with this sub and with Ryan's that I just heard, there really isn't too much to talk about in my opinion. It sounds natural, it just fits right in, so there really isn't much to say. If it stood out or did something wrong, it would be much easier to critique.

If I am picturing this correctly ssabripo, why not have the seams face at like a 45 between the side wall and front wall on the south sub? That way, the only time you would really be able to see them is if approaching the space between the two subs in that front left corner. All other area facing into the room would be solid material.
yes, that was my initial thought as well.....however, the floor plate will be at least 34", probably more like 36"; the edge of the opening to the living room you see in the pic, to the back wall, is about 16" I believe (just over a foot or so), so looking from the living room into the TV room, you would be able to see 1/2 sub, and ergo, the seams.

who knows...I'll probably worry about it once the building starts. If the going gets lazy, I may just put the freaggin bedliner and call it a day. It looks pretty good anyways:
http://home.insightbb.com/~henry.menke/Sonosub_RLp-15_C.JPG
that was a charcoal color, and they have it in black as well, so I think it may look pretty good at the end, at a much easier workload.

That's bedliner and not fabric? :confused: Glad to hear about the decision to use ~36" baseplate though....the ones with the baseplates the same size or smaller than the bottom cap just don't seem visually balanced in my opinion.

Thanks Steve for the Displacement numbers. That is quite allot of movement. I am still a new guy to these "mega" displacement numbers. But I will be playing with the big boys soon enough. Not quite 13.04L, but well beyond what I really need for my 1000cf room ;).
I am interested to see what the final result end up being with these.

I am interested to see what the final result end up being with these.
Have you seen the....."others"? :)

I have seen yours obviously and pictures of the others, yes. All I can say is, pretty freakin big.
But just to see other numbers will be interesting.

Maaannnn....

*sigh*

I'm growing less and less interested in building my beast anymore....

yes indeed...that would be a killer look! I really hate the idea of seams to be honest. It wouldn't be "too" hidden. For example, here is the one seam on chuck's headliner in the back:
mmm..Ok I have a idea! I seem to recall a dual 15" driver LLT floating around..how about a dual 18" rig?:p

Seriously though...why not incorporate $ome veneer and have two upscale units, thus coming out with a single seam? Another option would be thinking about some sort of band/strip that catches your eye, so you could do the horizontal gig..maybe at the 2/3 height? If done right I could see that looking good??

mmm..Ok I have a idea! I seem to recall a dual 15" driver LLT floating around..how about a dual 18" rig?:p

Seriously though...why not incorporate $ome veneer and have two upscale units, thus coming out with a single seam? Another option would be thinking about some sort of band/strip that catches your eye, so you could do the horizontal gig..maybe at the 2/3 height? If done right I could see that looking good??
yeah, that could be another idea! Also, I'm looking into some regular ol' carpet and see how the seam would look....it is harder to mesh the seams on regular carpet, but still worth a look.

Seriously though...why not incorporate $ome veneer and have two upscale units, thus coming out with a single seam?
That would get real expensive real quick, as each one is ~650 effective liters. So figure the amount you paid for veneer x 2.5 :eek:

Stevenn, I gotta go with SC on this one.....veneering two ava18 sonos is gonna rip me a new one! :o I already splurged and went with a Crown K2 amp for much more than any EP or QSC, so I gotta stop the bleeding somewhere.

Walk it off son. Just walk it off :D

Walk it off son. Just walk it off :D
http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/roflwerd.gif

That would get real expensive real quick, as each one is ~650 effective liters. So figure the amount you paid for veneer x 2.5
I hear what your saying, but I'm talking about doing a band around the top and bottom of the sono 6" wide. A single 24 X 96" roll would do the trick. You would still need to spend $$ on the hardwood caps though.
Stevenn, I gotta go with SC on this one.....veneering two ava18 sonos is gonna rip me a new one! I already splurged and went with a Crown K2 amp for much more than any EP or QSC, so I gotta stop the bleeding somewhere.
Yip!.. you should, its not worth living in a apt like I am for 3-12 months:D

The carpet idea is good, Ive seen some good looking carpet that would look just fine...it would also solve the problem at hand.

apt?? wtf? what happened? did I miss something? :eek:

o.O wtf?

Steve,
I think we are all thinking the same thing. Your addiction to building big subs didn't cause the misses to kick you out, did it. You got us worried about you man! :(

Sherv- Just do carpet, man. I think it looks pretty good, and the vertical seam is actually hard to see on mine.

Just pokin around in here reading and thought I may offer a suggestion on the carpet. If you want a ultra clean job, call a local autmotive fabric supplier and ask for Ozite carpet, it comes in just about any color you want, and comes in 48" width or 96" width, it does not have a backing, so when you lay your seam it will vanish, but you have to make sure that your cuts are straight, once you lay the seam just rub your hand over it until the fibers mesh together. Its great stuff, and its fairly cheap.

Oh one more thing, for the glue, use 3M fast foam adhesive in a aerosol can, it goes on in a web pattern that will not bleed through.

apt?? wtf? what happened? did I miss something? o.O wtf? Steve, I think we are all thinking the same thing. Your addiction to building big subs didn't cause the misses to kick you out, did it. You got us worried about you man!
Na!..it's all good, it really is. After 22 yrs of marriage something (mostly me) needed to change. DIY will always be my hobby, but it'll be on hold for a 1/2 year or so until we figure out what to do about our current house (might downsize) and we get things worked out. I could still use our garage since I only live a few miles away, but the tough love thing has most of my attention right now.;)
Sherv- Just do carpet, man. I think it looks pretty good, and the vertical seam is actually hard to see on mine.
I agree, using some type of reg carpet is going to blend just fine if care is taken. I like to use hot glue myself around the top, bottom and seam, but then we all have differing methods getting to the finish line. To be honest, I never have put a lot of concentration into the seam do to it being hidden away in the back.
the ones with the baseplates the same size or smaller than the bottom cap just don't seem visually balanced in my opinion.
Do you think? I dunno Steve, I view it just the opposite. I like mine the same size..of course larger would be much better than smaller, but I think the same size looks the most balanced. What ever one prefers though, its all good.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/stevenn/100_2730.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/stevenn/100_2747.jpg

Sherv- Just do carpet, man. I think it looks pretty good, and the vertical seam is actually hard to see on mine.
where did you get yours from again? (sorry, I forget :o )

Na!..it's all good, it really is. After 22 yrs of marriage something (mostly me) needed to change. DIY will always be my hobby, but it'll be on hold for a 1/2 year or so until we figure out what to do about our current house (might downsize) and we get things worked out. I could still use our garage since I only live a few miles away, but the tough love thing has most of my attention right now.;)
man, sorry to hear brother....I know how tough it is...but hey, you always got us grumpy nasty opinionated mofos just one click away! :p


btw, where did you get your carpet from? I dont remember if it was you or Wild or who, but somebody was saying that the carpet comes only in 50" widths or something like that......no?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/stevenn/100_2730.jpg

Steve,
Sucks. Man unplug or do whatever you need to do to get your life right. We'll be waiting for you.

Stevenn, Parboy, Wild, SC, etc.....can you guys point me to the carpet/headliner/etc materials you guys used?

I'm looking at Joann's fabric among other places, and can't seem to nail it down....also, the biggest size I see from that site is 54" wide.

where did you get yours from again? (sorry, I forget :o )

The good ol' Home Depot actually.

The carpet is something like this stuff. (http://yourautotrim-store.stores.yahoo.net/black5.html)

It was easy to attach using rubber cement, and to get a good seam (but that obviously isn't too critical, since as Steve-nn suggested, one would have the seams turned where they weren't visible) one only needs a sharp razor of some kind (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0006SJARU/ref=nosim/kkorg-20).

I bought mine at JoAnn's. It's called headliner material and came 54" wide I believe. I bought 3 yards for my sono.

I bought mine at JoAnn's. It's called headliner material and came 54" wide I believe. I bought 3 yards for my sono.
I looked in there, and no avail...when you get a chance, send me a link or look at your invoice for a part number ;)

Don't know if you use ebay (http://cgi.*********/DJ-case-and-speaker-carpet-10-sq-yrds-72-x180_W0QQitemZ130052787111QQihZ003QQcategoryZ29914QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem) but a quick search shows this. Check out his store for differant sizes. The way carpet layers cut carpet so the seam is not that noticable is to lap the ends then cut through both pieces so the seam will butt perfectly.

Edit: linky not worky just do a seach for speaker carpet they have some in 72" x

Very nice, your gonna like the Avalanche drivers, the near total lack of distortion makes the bass disappear and blend much better then conventional drivers that I have used in the past.


Good Luck.

I didn't use carpet, I used a stretchy neoprene like material. It's a synthetic material, no cotton, and when you put it up to light, even stretched, no light shines through. It's flat black and doesn't reflect light very well. Something like $3/yard.

The good ol' Home Depot actually.

The carpet is something like this stuff. (http://yourautotrim-store.stores.yahoo.net/black5.html)
Will, is that what you used??? I looked at your pics, and damm sure it doesn;t look like that thick carpet stuff :confused:...maybe I'm seeing something different here. Dunno.

Don't know if you use ebay (http://cgi.*********/DJ-case-and-speaker-carpet-10-sq-yrds-72-x180_W0QQitemZ130052787111QQihZ003QQcategoryZ29914QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem) but a quick search shows this. Check out his store for differant sizes. The way carpet layers cut carpet so the seam is not that noticable is to lap the ends then cut through both pieces so the seam will butt perfectly.

Edit: linky not worky just do a seach for speaker carpet they have some in 72" x
Nice! I found it....and it comes in 72"x144" :) ....I sent the guy an email to send me closer pics to see what the material looks like, but it looks like this may be the winner! thanks man.

I didn't use carpet, I used a stretchy neoprene like material. It's a synthetic material, no cotton, and when you put it up to light, even stretched, no light shines through. It's flat black and doesn't reflect light very well. Something like $3/yard.
you have a link or something? would be cool to see. I like the fact that your finish looks blacker than most of the carpet finishes I've seen. Do they make it in 72" widths or larger? send me a link

Very nice, your gonna like the Avalanche drivers, the near total lack of distortion makes the bass disappear and blend much better then conventional drivers that I have used in the past.
Good Luck.
that's the idea! :)
Not that the AV15 or RP-L15 are not outstanding in their own right, but just wanted to try and see what a badass driver would sound like in a large EBS alignment. I've heard so many good things about the SQ of the avalanche, and having heard how clear and non-distorted bass the Adire Tumults put out, I can imagine this thing..... we shall see, it will be exciting for sure! :cool:

Nice! I found it....and it comes in 72"x144" :) ....I sent the guy an email to send me closer pics to see what the material looks like, but it looks like this may be the winner! thanks man.

I bought my carpet at parts expess which is same stuff that stevenn used i think. It looks like the same carpet and i have to say that pic and the parts express pic doen't do it any justice. It's pretty nice in person.

you have a link or something? would be cool to see. I like the fact that your finish looks blacker than most of the carpet finishes I've seen. Do they make it in 72" widths or larger? send me a link
No, no link. I had to do some searching in a Joan Fabrics - interesting experience lol. The thing that I don't look forward to is trying to find an exact match when I finish #2 and #3 - if I were smart, I would have made three socks at once. I think mine looks blacker because even the more flat black carpets have a bit of a sheen to them.

I bought my carpet at parts expess which is same stuff that stevenn used i think. It looks like the same carpet and i have to say that pic and the parts express pic doen't do it any justice. It's pretty nice in person.

are you talking about this carpet (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=261-700) or this stuff (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=260-762) :confused:

neither i was talking about this (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=260-768)

neither i was talking about this
When they describe it as jet black, you can be sure it's jet black! It's thick enough to cover the twirls in the sono while not being so thick that a guy couldn't tuck if that's what he wanted to do?.. I sort of like the groove method myself though.

Willd showed me his marine carpet from HD, and that looks pretty sweet if you ask me! Chuck is still pushing me for the headliner stuff, but man, this would do the trick, quick and easy!

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/wadeere/Sonosub/subfinishedtop.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c199/wadeere/Sonosub/firstcovered.jpg

well, who knows...I got some time before I get to this point, but at least I got some options....thanks guys!

Willd showed me his marine carpet from HD, and that looks pretty sweet if you ask me!
I agree! I looked at the HD variety and liked what I saw. You would only have to mess with a single seam going that rout. It was mentioned earlier in cutting both through at the same time. Good idea if your really concerned, it also works for veneer.

How about the speakers carpet from speakercity.com? I used that material to cover my sonosub. It came out very nice. Here is the link:
http://speakercity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SC&Category_Code=SP

It's pretty cheap too. I'm like 10mins away from there. I got 2 yards of those and ask the guy to cut a little more. He was basically gave my 3.5 yards for $30. Check them out. Here is how it looks like:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1092618/ava15sonotube006.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1092618/ava15sonotube004.jpg

Al,

good stuff Wackii... looks like the same material from ebay. :) thanks for the link..

First, I thought you were going out of town or are you being punished?:)

Second, why don't you stop in to that drapery/fabric or whatever store on 95 and like Commercial. I think it is called Sultan or something. You can't miss it. Judging by the size of that place, I would guess they might have something you might like.

i'm actually writing this from teh airport in FLL...:p...........free wifi FTW! :)

yeah, I'm gonna stop by there....it was in the plans! :)

Ok guys...I'm back.

got all my stuff in, except the freaking sonotubes! :-(

I may have to go elsewhere to buy one!

The suspense is killing me. I know I know. It is killing you too. But itwill be worth the wait and the effort I am sure.

got all my stuff in, except the freaking sonotubes! :-(

I may have to go elsewhere to buy one!Been there, and bought the t-shirt. :rolleyes:

the excuse these mor(o)ns keep giving me is that the 28" is an odd size one, blah blah blah :rolleyes:

just get it already!!! :mad:

ok...one update:

I got a hold of my local hughes supplies guy, and I just got fed up....he is been giving me the run around for about 3 weeks now, and he has been telling me that this friday they would arrive.......so I asked him for a definitive answer and he said, probably next friday :confused: :mad:

so I told him to forget about it......and called another supplier, and he said he would have it in 2 weeks.....yes, longer than what Hughes was "supposed" to have it for, but this is just BS.

so Sorry fellas...looks like another few days before I get my hands on teh sono's! :o

ok...one update:

I got a hold of my local hughes supplies guy, and I just got fed up....he is been giving me the run around for about 3 weeks now, and he has been telling me that this friday they would arrive.......so I asked him for a definitive answer and he said, probably next friday :confused: :mad:

so I told him to forget about it......and called another supplier, and he said he would have it in 2 weeks.....yes, longer than what Hughes was "supposed" to have it for, but this is just BS.

so Sorry fellas...looks like another few days before I get my hands on teh sono's! :o

Hey, I got to swing by Chuck's house to test-run my ghetto made sub and it ran pretty good. Despite making the enclosure breathe on Master and Commander, the Behringer ran it just fine without any bottoming.

I also asked Chuck about what's going on with your sub, he just said you had all the parts to start off but no tube. :( Now I can see why from your post.

This is interesting. Seems you, Jon, and breedingamies had trouble finding 28" tube. The planets must have been in alignment for me, as there were literally 4-5 places in town that had 28" tube in stock, I just went with the best price. Do you live IN Miami or just near Miami?

....he is been giving me the run around for about 3 weeks now, and he has been telling me that this friday they would arrive.............and called another supplier, and he said he would have it in 2 weeks.....
Why don't you just go to Home Depot, buy some MDF, and build an dodecagon? It'll look like a cylinder if you stand far enough away. ;)

Well, after reading through 4 pages of thread and the Brotherhood slobbering all over ssabi, I guess I should post something.

Stevenn, 2 thoughts, you know what you have to do with your wife. I have been there before just like you. And second, quit giving sab ideas about veneer and custom panels on these tower thingies he is going to build, I mean that I am going to build.

Steve C, it's time to start a googlemap of all of us with tubes and 15 or greater drivers, kind of like pinky and the brain conquering the world. BTW, I just emailed the guy on Audiogon with AVA 18's and said I would pay the price for them and buy them without the cabinets!

All the rest of you, love your comments and I wish some of you lived closer so you could come over and take in the experience of working with ssabi boy on a woodworking project.

Ssabripo, what can I say! These tubes will be at my house first before your house! I know your wife and they will be coming back to my house shortly! mwahahahaha!

Chuck

Chas, FYI the guy selling the AVA 18's is a member here and posted in that thread. Maybe a PM would be a more efficient messaging system ;)

Steve C, it's time to start a googlemap of all of us with tubes and 15 or greater drivers, kind of like pinky and the brain conquering the world.

I agree!

Steve C, it's time to start a googlemap of all of us with tubes and 15 or greater drivers, kind of like pinky and the brain conquering the world
Sounds like a pretty cool idea - as you know, one of the original goals of the Brotherhood was to take....ep, see, now you almost got me to say it. PM is no longer secure anymore either - expect to see a falcon at your door tommorrow morning with a scroll tied to its leg that explains stage 3. We're so close I can taste it ;)

BTW, I just emailed the guy on Audiogon with AVA 18's and said I would pay the price for them and buy them without the cabinets!
Lol, but did you get your request in before me? Three is more than enough, but I like to keep things symetrical.

And second, quit giving sab ideas about veneer and custom panels on these tower thingies he is going to build, I mean that I am going to build.
Lol :D

Chas, FYI the guy selling the AVA 18's is a member here and posted in that thread. Maybe a PM would be a more efficient messaging system ;)


Way ahead of you on that! Did it already!

the brotherhood, eh? :p

so what do you call those with two or more of these bad boys?? The compadres? hehehe

:eek:


I wonder if something like that would fit in my car. It is a station wagon after all.

Hey,
I don't have a tube, but I'm a member of the brotherhood, right? :)

Yeah, it's a LLT.

How exactly does one go about creating this so called googlemap?

Yeah, it's a LLT.

How exactly does one go about creating this so called googlemap?
just make a frappr map

I've done one for all avsers, swanowners, denon 3910 owners, etc

goto www.frappr.com and follow instructions

I don't know if you have decided on a covering yet but I just used black velvet. Pay no attention to the crappy door it will be fixed soon :D

http://www.thenortonshow.com/images/DIY/subwoofer/sub1.jpg

just make a frappr map

I've done one for all avsers, swanowners, denon 3910 owners, etc

goto www.frappr.com and follow instructions

You know, you could do it for us. :)

I got to the point where it started talking about My Space and blogging and whatnot and I said forget it.

lol.

LOL for real :p

BlakeN, do you have a closeup pic?? :)

well I took some pictures but its really hard to take pictures of black felt. I would just got to your nearest fabric store and have a look. I took several pics and chose one using a flash one one without but to be honest the first pic I posted looks most like what the sub actually looks like. The flash picture looks gray and the no flash picture is just dark. The room was fully lit when I took the pictures.

http://www.thenortonshow.com/images/DIY/subwoofer/subnoflash.JPG
http://www.thenortonshow.com/images/DIY/subwoofer/subflash.JPG

hey guys....bear with me! :) the sono's should be here in a week, and then the fun and updates begin.

FYI, I took one of the twins to Chuck's house, so it can meet "Uncle CHuck" :p....we also listened to his 4 modula MT's (holy crap, those things sound good and have bass for a monitor speaker :eek: ).

hope you guys are having a good weekend. Time to catch some football

hope you guys are having a good weekend. Time to catch some football
Yeah I'm having a good weekend alright, dreaming about setting up a new shop!:rolleyes: See if Uncle Chuck will let me use his for my next project will you Sherv? A second apt bedroom just isn't going to cut it for DIY the next 6-12 months. Maybe I ought to consider the deposit gone and trash it! Let the manager shovel out all the MDF dust :D

Quick plug>> I have two brand-new 15" RL-p D2's for sale over at the HTF. :o

Yeah I'm having a good weekend alright, dreaming about setting up a new shop!:rolleyes: See if Uncle Chuck will let me use his for my next project will you Sherv? A second apt bedroom just isn't going to cut it for DIY the next 6-12 months. Maybe I ought to consider the deposit gone and trash it! Let the manager shovel out all the MDF dust :D

Quick plug>> I have two brand-new 15" RL-p D2's for sale over at the HTF. :o

You just don't sound too happy there Steve. You are welcome to use my tools whenever you want! PM me about the 2 15's, OK?

Chuck

You just don't sound too happy there Steve. You are welcome to use my tools whenever you want!
Actually I'm quite happy just dating the wife after being married 22 years:D If I play my cards right, I should have the use of the garage in a few weeks? It's all good (for the better) Chuck and I'll be sure to get in touch in the next day... :cool:

Yeah I'm having a good weekend alright, dreaming about setting up a new shop!:rolleyes: See if Uncle Chuck will let me use his for my next project will you Sherv? A second apt bedroom just isn't going to cut it for DIY the next 6-12 months. Maybe I ought to consider the deposit gone and trash it! Let the manager shovel out all the MDF dust :D

Quick plug>> I have two brand-new 15" RL-p D2's for sale over at the HTF. :o
Man....I feel you brotha! :o hang in there man....

and yes, Chuck, although grumpy and old at times, is pretty cool....I'm sure he can accomodate something! :p

GREAT NEWS GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

the Sonotubes are here! I'm picking them up on monday! the K2 arrived a couple of days ago as well, so we are set to rock and roll!!!

given that this coming week is gonna be hectic for x-mas and all that, I'm guessing Chuckster and I wont get to it till late december or beginning of the year, but at least the parts are all in place!!!!!!!

woooohoooo :D

That is pretty sweet. I know that you are chompin at the bit to get started. Can't wait to see how this all falls into place.

thanks Mike :)

the Sonotubes are here! I'm picking them up on Monday!
It's beginning to feel like Christmas! This is gonna be a hoot!..good for you Sherv.
I'm guessing Chuckster and I wont get to it till late december or beginning of the year
Lol..make sure you give him time to go up in his own attic and do a few preliminary measurements:D

Mother of GOD, these things are freaking HUGE!!! :o

pics speak louder than words!

on the truck.....the itsy bitsy tiny little sono beside it is an 8" sonotube ladies, just to give you and idea!
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8893/zzzz1912061338mm1.jpg

loaded on the truck...now THAT's a sight:
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/4951/zzzz1912061339mu9.jpg

I think I'm gonna be short about an inch on each tube because the ends are a little roughed up, so I'll probably have to trim them a little..... yup, that'll buff right up, hehehehe:
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3514/zzzz1912061345ht1.jpg

One of the towers is large enough to gobble me up and then some! christ, I can fit Chuck's sono in here and it wont even be a light snack!!!!
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/921/zzzz1912061433te3.jpg

well, tubes are here, Chuck will probably cut this sucker down into 2 tonite, or his wife is gonna kick my skinny @ss for bringing such beastiality to her house!! But the parts are in place and ready to roll.

as my main man Gandolph says, "Things have been set in motion, and cannot be stopped...."

Now to cover the port(s) on the top, you just need a triangular roof and you will have two of your very own silos. Plenty of artistic decorating potential there ;)

You look frightened in that 4th picture lol. I was originally thinking I was gonna be able to stack the two pieces out of my trunk....I drive a Ford Taurus...they pulled them out from the warehouse and yeah, that idea was shot. It can be deceivingly heavy too, especially when carrying it up to the third floor ;)

But hell, the LLT was never intended for little girls. Have at it!

the LLT was never intended for little girls.
http://will.is-a-geek.org/~wconley/guestbook/icons/SouthPark_Raisins.gif

Good to see that you found the SonoTube. I couldn't believe it either when I picked mine up. I think the bed in my truck is a little shorter, so the tube was hanging out a good 5 feet. It was a sight that is for sure.

Plan on buying no less than four 4x8 sheets of mdf, 6 cans of primer, 6 cans of paint, 3 cans of spray adhesive, 11 yards of polyfill..... I think you are getting the idea.

Well, the first cut is done....step 1 of 8457023 :p

Here is the Chuckster's old butt with the twins:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/6537/zzzzz1912061943cb2.jpg

Here is my scrony butt with them....I wasn't as cheerful as Chuck, because I'm the one who has to figure out a way to get this monsters into the house and keep the wife from cutting my nutsack off:
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1448/zzzzz1912061944jp4.jpg

here is Debbie, after Chuck told her repeatedly to smile....talk about a forced smile :p ...Now mind you, she is a pretty cool and open individual and she was just reacting to seeing those things in her garage! God help my nuts! *Gulp*
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/8929/zzzzz1912061946wr1.jpg

Holy cr@p those things are huge. I mean man alive. I did not think they would that big. How tall are they again? Well, I guess now the real fun can begin. I am looking forward to watch these beasts come together.

All of a sudden my old 18" sonotube looks so small.....

http://home.triad.rr.com/leggio/images/ht/projects/SubP7060784a.jpg

I strapped the 12 foot length of sonotube to the roof rack of my wife's Jeep and drove as slowly as I dared home in fear of a cross-wind. I can't even imagine a 28" diameter up there. (Yes, even the 18" was heavy, and a lot harder to move around than I originally thought it would be)

I can't wait till you add feet and a baseplate to give your subwoofers a bit of height :D You will be happy with the result, and it will crush anything Circuit-City or Best-Buy consider to be a "subwoofer"

Joe L.

Well, the first cut is done....step 1 of 8457023 :p

Here is the Chuckster's old butt with the twins:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/6537/zzzzz1912061943cb2.jpg

Here is my scrony butt with them....I wasn't as cheerful as Chuck, because I'm the one who has to figure out a way to get this monsters into the house and keep the wife from cutting my nutsack off:
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1448/zzzzz1912061944jp4.jpg

here is Debbie, after Chuck told her repeatedly to smile....talk about a forced smile :p ...Now mind you, she is a pretty cool and open individual and she was just reacting to seeing those things in her garage! God help my nuts! *Gulp*
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/8929/zzzzz1912061946wr1.jpg

I think her expression is one of worry, I bet ya she is thinking that Chuck wants one in the living room :p

Chuck looks tired, lol

So how did you cut this thing in half? jigzaw, handsaw, gigantic scissors?

So how did you cut this thing in half? jigzaw, handsaw, gigantic scissors?
well, if nothing else, I gotta give Chuck big props for always knowing some nice ways of getting sh!t done....very pragmatic. I would have put the sucker on the table saw and just rotated it, but that's not very accurate.

we actually measured and put some paper alignment after marking the ledge with a square, so that we can get a good starting point. Then measured half way through to get the 6ft, and used 3 points around the tube and taped it to get a nice even cut (blue tape you see on pics). Then used a jigsaw with a laser beam on it to keep straight.

for a small cramped garage, two guys and one jigsaw, 12 foot 28" wide sonotube, I say we did a pretty even cut. :)

gotta give it to the old man...he is crafty :D

Even the little gunslinger is impressed (can't you tell?).

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/8194/coopslingerwf6.png (http://imageshack.us)

Has Chuck become Miami's hub for all DIY audio projects? :p

no, but he is a fanatic, and pretty cool old dude....so we all just kinda gravitate that way...:p

That thing is HUGE! :D Amazing stuff...

You are a brave, brave man Sherv.



Or just really dumb. :D

;)

You are a brave, brave man Sherv.



Or just really dumb. :D

;)
I'll let you know in about a month....heheh.....but if I'm a betting man, I'm leaning towards the latter :o

You can consider yourself a very lucky man if you are allowed to put those two monsters in the living room with out having a vital accessory removed from your anatamy. :)
btw I bet Your neibours are just going to love you when you get them done and fire up WOTW.

Has Chuck become Miami's hub for all DIY audio projects? :p

I wouldn't say just Miami.... I would say for all South Florida!

But seriously, Chuck is a cool guy and as Sherv says, "a fanatic". Seriously, this guy told me to consider a completely seperate AC unit and condenser just for my HT and nothing else... he also has this obsession for walls that are not parallel. :p

I wouldn't say just Miami.... I would say for all South Florida! Well heck, I'm only about 6 hours away.

What'cha up to this weekend Chuck? :p

On another note... I heard you might have a few 18"s to move. ;)

he also has this obsession for walls that are not parallel
Well I gotta agree with him there. Non parallel walls has gotta be the primary reason for my smooth bass response. So many people build dedicated theater rooms and just make a plain rectangular shape, then wonder why their response is so bad and why they need so much EQ.

Well I gotta agree with him there. Non parallel walls has gotta be the primary reason for my smooth bass response. So many people build dedicated theater rooms and just make a plain rectangular shape, then wonder why their response is so bad and why they need so much EQ.

I know and understand this ( hence the :p )

So Sherv, when's the next step in building the towers?

Well I gotta agree with him there. Non parallel walls has gotta be the primary reason for my smooth bass response. So many people build dedicated theater rooms and just make a plain rectangular shape, then wonder why their response is so bad and why they need so much EQ.

Yeah, well....Im screwed. Cause all the rooms are square or rectangle. :(

Well I gotta agree with him there. Non parallel walls has gotta be the primary reason for my smooth bass response. So many people build dedicated theater rooms and just make a plain rectangular shape, then wonder why their response is so bad and why they need so much EQ.
According to Floyd Toole even non rectangular rooms have resonances they are just a lot hard to predict.

So Sherv, when's the next step in building the towers?
i'm gonna buy the 5 sheets of MDF this coming days and take it over to the "lab"...i'm hoping to start doing cuts either next week or 1st week of january... :o

Well I gotta agree with him there. Non parallel walls has gotta be the primary reason for my smooth bass response. So many people build dedicated theater rooms and just make a plain rectangular shape, then wonder why their response is so bad and why they need so much EQ.

Yeah, well....Im screwed. Cause all the rooms are square or rectangle. :(

I wouldn't be so sure that you're screwed... I think there are some controversy about this parallel-walls-or-not question. There are some (experienced) people saying that with box shaped rooms, at least you have control over your room modes, but with non-parallel rooms the sound can be more "chaotic".

I really have no (official) meanings about this myself, just writing what I've heard others been saying... Maybe the "pro box shaped rooms" guys are just saying what they do, because they have box shaped rooms themselves :D

Lordy-lordy! Step away for a few days and look what Sherv comes up with:eek: I dunno, there's LLT and then there's LLT.. add another 6-8" and what do you have? Might I suggest on your things to do list, your first agenda being to register them with the state,..maybe Chuck could fill in here on account of it being so tedious and time consuming? :)

Great pics, keepem coming :cool:

here is Debbie, after Chuck told her repeatedly to smile....talk about a forced smile :p ...Now mind you, she is a pretty cool and open individual and she was just reacting to seeing those things in her garage! God help my nuts! *Gulp*
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/8929/zzzzz1912061946wr1.jpg

I think she was probably thinking "Why in the hell did I let Chuck host that HT meet earlier in the year?".:)

Has Chuck become Miami's hub for all DIY audio projects? :p

I think you mean South Florida. Chuck lives in Margate, which is in the U.S.. He was smart enough not to move to a third world country.

I think you mean South Florida. Chuck lives in Margate, which is in the U.S.. He was smart enough not to move to a third world country.

Now why you gotta start with the name calling? :p

I think you mean South Florida. Chuck lives in Margate, which is in the U.S.. He was smart enough not to move to a third world country.
Dont be upset that you live in Kendall :p ....it's not our fault. But look at it this way, you are not in Hialeah at least... :D

Spent most of this morning doing the first wood cuts with 'ol Chuck.....got the manual heavy cuts done!

5 sheets of 3/4" MDF wood, cut into 3 parts per....15 pieces total = HEAVY! Home Depot is now $118.27 happier:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/743/zzzzz2812060917se5.jpg

Making the first cut....the money cut!
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3151/zzzzz2812061040fb9.jpg

6 cuts of ~ 32" for the outer plates...viola! oh, and that cost us one router bit!!
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/2601/zzzzz2812061102fd5.jpg

another 8 cuts of exactly 27" and 13/16", for the inside boards....these were the real money cuts!
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6324/zzzzz2812061219bl3.jpg

sawdust everywhere (even in my wallet and phone, which were inside my pant's pockets...LOL), but at least we got the grunt work done. Time to start glueing, and then cutting out the port and driver cutouts.

oh, and Happy new year everyone!!! :)

That truly is the grunt work.

Hi All. I Hooked My Xbox 360 Into My Onix A60 Mk Ii Integrated Amp For Both Gaming And Music Playing. The Problem Is When I Play A Game I Get Incredible Bass But When I Throw In A Music Cd I Get Gots. The Music Is Playing But No Bass. I Cant Say No Bass, When I Turn The Balance Knob Left Or Right Then The Bass Appears.it Seems Weird Does Anyone Have Any Suggestions?

Woops Sorry Wrong Post

6 cuts of ~ 32" for the outer plates...viola! oh, and that cost us one router bit!!
There goes another $10-25....impatience or just one of those things?
but at least we got the grunt work done.
You would think so wouldn't you? cough cough :D

Are you going to seal the caps with a coat of shellac? I would since they react to humidity...if you do, just get the spray.


MDF....thats one hell of a material.....that can come back to haunt you....hope you wore a dustmask...

You would think so wouldn't you? cough cough :D
are you saying there is more grunt work to do??! No way!!! ;) :p

There goes another $10-25....impatience or just one of those things?

You would think so wouldn't you? cough cough :D

Maybe your experience was different, but I found that cutting the endcaps/plugs out was indeed the most work intensive. The rest was just do this and do that, no problem.

are you saying there is more grunt work to do??! No way!!! ;) :p
Lets just say you have made a most excellent start. You tell me after your finished ok :cool: Your going to need to cut the ports out now, along with dry fitting your bottom assembly. Lots of little things like flares, terminals, sock, lining, gluing the caps, and making sure your bottom assembly is all good (dry fit). That can be a little tricky, but nothing you and the Chuckster cant handle. OH!..you need to round over your caps before the dust settles. What do you guys plan on doing for the terminals on the inside?..speedbore bit or router?

Once the sub is done, then it's time to paint. :)
Maybe your experience was different, but I found that cutting the endcaps/plugs out was indeed the most work intensive.
Yes I also thought cutting the caps was the most grunt work like suggested, it was getting the bottom assembly like I wanted the most time consuming I think? Whoops! I guess gloss black would surpass the time of the bottom assembly come to think of it. I had a lot of trial and error going with the paint though.

Lets just say you have made a most excellent start. You tell me after your finished ok :cool: Your going to need to cut the ports out now, along with dry fitting your bottom assembly. Lots of little things like flares, terminals, sock, lining, gluing the caps, and making sure your bottom assembly is all good (dry fit). That can be a little tricky, but nothing you and the Chuckster cant handle. OH!..you need to round over your caps before the dust settles. What do you guys plan on doing for the terminals on the inside?..speedbore bit or router?

Once the sub is done, then it's time to paint. :)

Yes I also thought cutting the caps was the most grunt work like suggested, it was getting the bottom assembly like I wanted the most time consuming I think? Whoops! I guess gloss black would surpass the time of the bottom assembly come to think of it. I had a lot of trial and error going with the paint though.


Ah yes, you did spend a lot of time trying to get a piano gloss finish. :p

:D

Ah yes, you did spend a lot of time trying to get a piano gloss finish. :p :D
There's slow and then there's slow. :) I'm seriously contemplating building a little sealed unit with the barest minimum of tools just for the challenge of it. If I buy a sheet of MDF, I'll rip it down on the table saw, but the rest of the cutting will be done with a hand trim saw. Even though it costs a little more, I think I'll buy the quarter panels thinking about it. The tricky part is how do I keep from using one of my routers in cutting out the baffle and rounding over the edges?? Although challenging as the baffle is, black gloss wont be a issue. ;)

There goes another $10-25....impatience or just one of those things?
I made him buy 3 cause they get dull so fast.

You would think so wouldn't you? cough cough :D
He has no idea!


Are you going to seal the caps with a coat of shellac? I would since they react to humidity...if you do, just get the spray.


MDF....thats one hell of a material.....that can come back to haunt you....hope you wore a dustmask...

I will probably use an HVLP gun and spray on Crystalac Super Premium Gloss.
The garage was well ventilated and dust collection was used quite frequently.

are you saying there is more grunt work to do??! No way!!!


You have no idea!

Lets just say you have made a most excellent start. You tell me after your finished ok Your going to need to cut the ports out now, along with dry fitting your bottom assembly. Lots of little things like flares, terminals, sock, lining, gluing the caps, and making sure your bottom assembly is all good (dry fit). That can be a little tricky, but nothing you and the Chuckster cant handle. OH!..you need to round over your caps before the dust settles. What do you guys plan on doing for the terminals on the inside?..speedbore bit or router?


Yeah, yeah, yeah, I read the directions :) Of course a router!

There's slow and then there's slow. I'm seriously contemplating building a little sealed unit with the barest minimum of tools just for the challenge of it. If I buy a sheet of MDF, I'll rip it down on the table saw, but the rest of the cutting will be done with a hand trim saw. Even though it costs a little more, I think I'll buy the quarter panels thinking about it. The tricky part is how do I keep from using one of my routers in cutting out the baffle and rounding over the edges?? Although challenging as the baffle is, black gloss wont be a issue.

Go buy a sheetrock saw and sit on the porch for a week! Or invest in lots of sandpaper.

Chuck

Go buy a sheetrock saw and sit on the porch for a week!
No that would defeat the purpose, I might as well use the router! I'll have fun figuring it out though. Oh, and sand paper will definitely be involved.
I made him buy 3 cause they get dull so fast.
Good for you, makempay. ;)
He has no idea!
I hear ya! When your building one it's not so bad, but since your building two with bottom assemblies not to mention size, everything takes time regardless of grunt work or not. Your painting scheme should be very nice indeed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I read the directions :) Of course a router!
Lol...Might I suggest from a past pic.. your fingers arent what I would call dainty. The router it is! :D

Good for you, makempay. ;)

He wants high end, he has to pay high end!

I hear ya! When your building one it's not so bad, but since your building two with bottom assemblies not to mention size, everything takes time regardless of grunt work or not. Your painting scheme should be very nice indeed.

But that's the point, I'm not building one, I thought?

Lol...Might I suggest from a past pic.. your fingers arent what I would call dainty. The router it is! :D

Yeah, thats the reason I am not a Dentist making the big bucks.

Of course I want highend....but at DIY prices...LOL :p

you two boys are having way too much fun at my expense! I wanted to say I'm gonna have the last laugh, but as always, the chuckster pulled another fast one on me thanks to Stevenn....gaddam IB :o

oh well....i can't keep up with the old dude anymore...just can't.

you two boys are having way too much fun at my expense! I wanted to say I'm gonna have the last laugh, but as always, the chuckster pulled another fast one on me thanks to Stevenn....gaddam IB :o oh well....i can't keep up with the old dude anymore...just can't.
Being we have a inside look at the Chuckster's makeup, I think it wise to not even entertain the idea of keeping up, but none the same!.. You keep'm busy on your end with your Two Tower project and I'll do what I can on my end to bring him down. He'll just plainly wear himself out! :D

Seriously> Sherv your going to be sitting so good bass wise! I mean who do you know that has not one but two 18" driver LLT towers? I guess br C has talked about it, but will it become a reality, I don't know? Anyway, looking forward to the next phase, even though all the hard work is over. :)

Yeah man....I am definitely looking forward to these two subs being done and sitting in your living room. :D

well I appreciate that guys...hopefully we can make some progress this week with some more wood work. I leave sunday to CES, and will be back next week. I plan on spending every saturday, and perhaps a couple of weeknites here and there starting mid-january, so we can get these guys done in a decent timeframe.

unfortunately, with my schedule, and with Chuck's busy time now, it is hard to coordinate meeting times :o

but it will get done fellas...I promise. I can't wait to start the measurements either....hehe.

I'm still not totally committed to the tuning point of these towers, as I'm still debating if the drop in headroom (albeit slight) in the 20-30hz region is worth the gain between 8-12hz. Given my listening habits, and the fact that I will have two of them, i'm leaning towards a 11.4hz tune, although 12.4 is also in the running.

here are the theoretical numbers, with the 800W/ch of the Crown K2:

Fb------(10hz)------(20hz)------(30hz)
13.4--- 107.3 ----- 117.1 ------ 118.0 dB
12.4--- 108.9 ----- 116.4 ------ 117.7 dB
11.4--- 110.0 ----- 115.8 ------ 117.4 dB

the cross over point is around 12.3 hz, which comes in at around 113.2 dB. ABove 30hz, they are pretty much a wash.

another point of consideration is that the lower tune pushes the cone Displacement further down as it approaches Xmax. The only real negative I see with going lower and lower, is that I will be closer to Xmax before tuning freq. Example, with an 11.4hz tuning point, we will approach 24.2mm at 16.6hz, whereas with a 12.4hz we will approach 23.2mm at 18.5hz.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7759/ava18tunepointsic5.jpg

thus, safety first tells me to lean towards 12.4 to get some of the headroom back (compared to 13.4) for the 20-30hz region, but there are a lot of pros in going lower to 11.4hz, specially with 2 of them! I mean, we are talking 116.4 dB at 20hz for one, so a nice +6dB on the second one, and this aint too shabby! :D

Man, I really think that "headroom" in the 20-30Hz range with two of these in your particular room is the last thing you should be worrying about.

I know you will be happy once it is all together. I am looking forward to seeing what these can really do and not just what the computer says it can do. With two of them, is over driving really an issue? I mean 116db with one is pretty strong me thinks.

ssabie, check your math. It's +6db from acoustic-coupling when doubling drivers and doubling power (by using separate amp channels 800x800w.)

100Hz has an 11.3 foot wavelength, and 10Hz would have a 113 foot wavelength. As long as you are within a wavelength you will get the full gain. ;)

The room will of course screw with things, but that is always a problem. I had to reverse the phase on my pair for them to meld together properly.

ssabie, check your math. It's +6db from acoustic-coupling when doubling drivers and doubling power (by using separate amp channels 800x800w.)

100Hz has an 11.3 foot wavelength, and 10Hz would have a 113 foot wavelength. As long as you are within a wavelength you will get the full gain. ;)

The room will of course screw with things, but that is always a problem. I had to reverse the phase on my pair for them to meld together properly.
didn't I say 6dB? :confused:

Edit: oh snap, you are right...hehehe... :D ... i typed 3dB. too much grandpa's juice for new years will do that to ya! hahaha
Ok, fixed the typo.

another couple of hours of work done.....routed the outer edges, and glued the four pieces together! Tomorrow hopefully we cut the driver and port holes, and then we can start sanding and prep'ing the pieces for painting.

routing the pieces:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9578/zzzzz0301071249kn3.jpg

As Chuckster would say, Man was made to work with electricity... :p Sawdust? What sawdust???! router spits it out, vacuum sucks it in. College pays
dividends, LMAO!
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3490/zzzzz0301071248xb6.jpg


two of the pieces done....all four completed however:
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7113/zzzz0301071340wk9.jpg

anyways....more to come tomorrow.

As Hannibal used to say
"I love it when a plan comes together"
Looks real good. Did you say what the final finish is going to be? Is it going to be stained or some other kind of finish.

Man Chuck looks cool. :D

Yeah baby, how do ya' like that routing? Its smooth, right? Yeah....

Lookin good! I bet those caps weigh a few pounds though! That dust collector lookes intuitive:) Routering on a table with moving the work itself is so much slicker compared to holding the router. Question from the West side though..what kind of special blend does the Chuckster smoke?

Oh! Now your going to part your subs correct? I don't see you coming out with a 6dB gain at calibration FR level. If they're parted 5-6' or better, it's not going to happen...not that it really matters with the hp you have under the hood! Anyway, looking good along with the nice pics.

well hell...somebody gotta take the pics and do the grass cutting :p

ps- I believe those are Malboro's :D

http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/57/457/2/22/12/2384222120037002257eUHFmD_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2384222120037002257eUHFmD)

Wow. :eek: Suddenly the SVS sub I'm planning on buying seems somewhat...inadequate.

http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/57/457/2/22/12/2384222120037002257eUHFmD_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2384222120037002257eUHFmD)

Wow. :eek: Suddenly the SVS sub I'm planning on buying seems somewhat...inadequate.

Plans are never set in stone...

Come to the dark side. ;)

Plans are never set in stone...

Come to the dark side. ;)

heheh..maybe in a few years when I have the $$$/know how ;) (poor college student with no tools)

heheh..maybe in a few years when I have the $$$/know how ;) (poor college student with no tools)
the tools is a big issue....but the $$$ is not. with the money you were gonna spend on any SVS/HSU/etc, you will KILL any of them. My current box'd large EBS AV15" sub cost me about the price of the PB12-NSD, at Ultra/2 performance levels ;)

the tools is a big issue....but the $$$ is not. with the money you were gonna spend on any SVS/HSU/etc, you will KILL any of them. My current box'd large EBS AV15" sub cost me about the price of the PB12-NSD, at Ultra/2 performance levels ;)

That's why I put that statement in my signature.

There's no one here on these forums that can argue the fact below.

heheh..maybe in a few years when I have the $$$/know how ;) (poor college student with no tools)

Do you live in South Florida by any chance? :D

heheh..maybe in a few years when I have the $$$/know how (poor college student with no tools)
For a $100 a guy can get started in DIY no problem. Considering what you save, your still ahead compared to what you would spend for a decent sub.
Hand saw $20
Clamps $60
Router $60
SQ driver $5
=$145

Now lets figure the cost of a decent sub.....

15" driver $350
Amp $250
Wood $55
Terminals $5
Port $10
Screws $5
Leads $5
Paint $10
Plus tools $145 =$980 Now a guy could add a couple hundred easily, but then he could shave $150. Although the market is heating up, for under a $1000 you can buy the tools and still come out with a sub that would surpass something bought-en conservatively speaking. Most of us over here have a tendency to swap out our subs every so often :o and that's where the savings really comes into play. None the same, speaking for myself, there is a certain level of satisfaction and pride associated with building a sub that $$ cant buy. Oh! and if done right..it'll be a sub that will blow your doors off.. if that's what your looking for? SPL, SQ it's all there to be had.

It may have just been me :o , but $1000 is a LOT for a college student to spend on something like a subwoofer. Something like an Ascendant Audio 12" Assassin ($90) and PE 300 watt BASH amp with highpass ($105) in 180 effective liters with a 6" sonotube port that is 19" long ($10) would give you a heck of a lot of output down to ~23hz in room. Buy a sheet of MDF from Lowes or Home Depot and have them cut it for you ($20), buy the cheapest binding posts/wire/wood glue/etc. ($20), use "improvised" clamping (heavy things laying around the house :D ), and cut the driver hole with a borrowed jigsaw or recipricating saw (it would be impossible to not know someone who has one). Put a couple cans of spray paint on it ($3), and you have a killer <$300 sub. It won't go into subsonics, but it should be able to hit 110db+ levels and sound pretty decent. Perfect college sub, not TOO big.

It may have just been me :o , but $1000 is a LOT for a college student to spend on something like a subwoofer, let alone almost any J6P

Let me requote that for emphasis (added a little too).

Honestly, $1000 for bass is insane to most any consumer but an HT zealot

I remember saving a lot of extra money (working overtime) to be able to build my old EBS tempest 6 years ago. College students (non-silver platter kids) have a lot of other bills and a 3 month internship only goes to far during the year.

Honestly, $1000 for bass is insane to most any consumer but an HT zealot
It's all relative depending on what your hobby is. I work with some guys who spend big bucks on fishing equipment, others who buy season tickets for a baseball team. To me, spending big money on those things is insane, but spending $1000 to have excellent bass capability for music and movies is well worth it. Subs will last a long time, get used a lot, and will give me instant gratification as soon as I put some music or a movie on.

As for college students, if you add up how much most of them spend on alcohol in a year, a $250 sub should be no problem ;) I don't drink, and that has had to have saved me tons of money over the years.

It may have just been me :o , but $1000 is a LOT for a college student to spend on something like a subwoofer.
Yeah!..well he's a rich collage kid :D No seriously though..my dumb. The thing is though, after your first sub, eq and pro amp, along with picking up the tools, a guy can build that sub for around $400. I was just trying to save him some $$ in the long run is all. :D

Yeah, it depends on if he is paying his own way entirely or is as jj put it, a silver-platter kid.

I paid my own way for a lot of college .. and still managed a nice system

I went through 2 tempest
2 MASS2012s
2 AV12 w/ 4PR15s
4 x 12 Klipsch RW12 proto drivers
and a very nice Klipsch/Marantz/NAD setup.

I understand the priorities things ... cars, fishing, jewelry etc ... but to say $1k is do-able .. is to me saying a lot. He surely can build it up over time, just as I did ... router here, hand saw there, jigsaw instead of a date on friday ... etc I just don't think many go out and spend $1k and be unaffected.

Jim (realizes this forum is populated by all income levels .. but makes the case for us bottom dwellers) :)

OP, I borrowed tools and did shoddy work at first ... and it honestly got the job done. You dont need to make furniture grade stuff out of the gates ... so precise tools and perfect panel gapping isn't req'd .... just remembr, liquid nails is GOD :p

OP, I borrowed tools and did shoddy work at first ... and it honestly got the job done. You dont need to make furniture grade stuff out of the gates ... so precise tools and perfect panel gapping isn't req'd .... just remembr, liquid nails is GOD
Amen! and the trim bit is your friend.

do it Kid....DO IT! :D

$1000 aint sh!t in the long scheme of things, and you will have a sub for years to come. Next summer spend some money and you can do your own DIY speakers, and you go from there!!! The sky is the limit, and when you graduate and start making some real money, you can invest in your cars, ladies, booze, and high end processor :p

it is all relative. I rather save the spring break trip to Cancun or Lake Havesu, and the weekend drunk sessions, and put the money to good use in something I love: clear and accurate Bass.

I just don't think many go out and spend $1k and be unaffected.
Well that I can agree with, $1000 isn't an everyday purchase for me :D But if you average the costs for a decent SVS, Velodyne, Paradigm, HSU, Rocket, Axiom, XYZ subwoofer, many people ARE in fact paying $1000 or much more for their bass. This trend will only continue as home theater becomes more and more popular.

The thing is though, after your first sub, eq and pro amp, along with picking up the tools, a guy can build that sub for around $400. I was just trying to save him some $$ in the long run is all
No worries, I hear ya! :cool: You and Chuck have essentially become pilot plants, able to fabricate subs for not much more than the cost of the driver and some MDF :D

I paid my own way for a lot of college .. and still managed a nice system

I went through 2 tempest
2 MASS2012s
2 AV12 w/ 4PR15s
4 x 12 Klipsch RW12 proto drivers
and a very nice Klipsch/Marantz/NAD setup.

I understand the priorities things ... cars, fishing, jewelry etc ... but to say $1k is do-able .. is to me saying a lot. He surely can build it up over time, just as I did ... router here, hand saw there, jigsaw instead of a date on friday ... etc I just don't think many go out and spend $1k and be unaffected.

Jim (realizes this forum is populated by all income levels .. but makes the case for us bottom dwellers) :)

OP, I borrowed tools and did shoddy work at first ... and it honestly got the job done. You dont need to make furniture grade stuff out of the gates ... so precise tools and perfect panel gapping isn't req'd .... just remembr, liquid nails is GOD :p

Hi guys,

The above is quite true. The great thing about college is the low aesthetic standards and value of functional furniture and the like.

With as little as a power drill/screwdriver and a jigsaw for tools, you CAN assemble a highly functional subwoofer! Step it up a bit and get a circular saw and use some clamps for straight edge guides, or you can get away with a circular saw and a Rotozip with sabre bits. All of these options will take you more time than more proper tools, but if you are careful in your cuts and measurements, you will have friends asking you if you can build one for them.

By all means, you don't need the most exotic drivers and amps to get a good sub. $100-500 + wood & glue can get you going with some very fun results. Combine that with the typically cramped confines of college living, and you can get plenty of power to announce any fun you are having to your neighboors. :cool:

he Lives!!!! :) :p

good to see you around these neck of the woods Mark...

By all means, you don't need the most exotic drivers and amps to get a good sub. $100-500 + wood & glue can get you going with some very fun results.
Yes indeed! You know when I mentioned the market heating up earlier, you were the first one that came to mind. A 15" offering for $600 is what I would call a dang honest effort at delivering the goods for a very fare price imo.
No worries, I hear ya! :cool: You and Chuck have essentially become pilot plants, able to fabricate subs for not much more than the cost of the driver and some MDF :D
lol...Well if a guy has a pro amp, eq, along with a BASSIS, there isn't really much else to it whether ported or sealed. Maybe ad some veneer? I certainly have benefited from your help, that's for certain! If I tried to run one of my LLT's where I'm at now, I'm afraid our 6-12 month split would turn out to be 2 months. No need to rush things! I need the break;) I like my chicken fried..with the skin on! Thank you very much! :p

You have some new pics coming up this weekend Sherv?

You have some new pics coming up this weekend Sherv?
unfortunately not :o

Chuck and I got busy at the last moment, and I'm leaving sunday morning to CES, so things are on hold till I get back next week!

but stay tuned

Well, the first cut is done....step 1 of 8457023 :p

Here is my scrony butt with them....I wasn't as cheerful as Chuck, because I'm the one who has to figure out a way to get this monsters into the house and keep the wife from cutting my nutsack off:
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1448/zzzzz1912061944jp4.jpg


I am willing to chip in for a trust/cup. After all this is a fellowship of the rings/towers, right?

I must say, your tubes are sexy http://smiliesftw.com/x/nanadance.gif

chuck...how are the twins? :o

tell'm poppa will be home soon :D

chuck...how are the twins? :o

tell'm poppa will be home soon :D

They are resting quite comfortably. I have been feeding them on a regular basis so that they will grow up to be big and strong subwoofers like their Uncles soon to be IB! :D

So what's up with these monsters? Any updates, or did your wife kill you?

So what's up with these monsters? Any updates, or did your wife kill you?


I'm gonna kill him. He wants to start on Saturday at 1:30 in the afternoon for 6 hours worth of work. I told him be there at 9:00 AM. The next step is to route and do the rebases on all the caps. Lots of routing and MDF dust. I want to get it all done in one shot and it just takes some dedicated time. After that he can poke along at his pace sanding, sealing, priming, painting, and did I mention painting? :D

Chuck

I'm gonna kill him. He wants to start on Saturday at 1:30 in the afternoon for 6 hours worth of work. I told him be there at 9:00 AM.

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~kel/pics/SmackDown.jpg

:D

So he wants to have the subs completely functional by Saturday or just roughly assembled?

So he wants to have the subs completely functional by Saturday or just roughly assembled?
I got a $.20 that says it ain't gonna happen. :)
I'm gonna kill him. He wants to start on Saturday at 1:30 in the afternoon for 6 hours worth of work.
1:30!? :eek:

well sh!t man...is not like "I" want to start at 1:30pm.....Momma has to work and won't get off till 1:00pm. I called the babysitter to see if she can cover, but no answer yet. :o

Believe me guys, I wanna get done as bad, nay worst, than you guys, and I know o'l chuck can't wait to kick my skinny @ss outta his house, so I know he is in a hurry too :p


ps- it's more like this Will:
http://radio.javaranch.com/mikec/images/Pet_Kung_Fu.jpg

Thats OK. I am almost finished with an electronics project that has taken over the shop right now. (Test equipment and sawdust do not mix!) and I have all the parts to start working on my IB, so maybe we can just put the two towers out to pasture for a month or two! :D By that time, I will be ready to start at 1:30 in the afternoon. Why, we could even start at 3:00 PM and quit by, say, oh 5:00 PM? Hows that sound?

I got a $.20 that says it ain't gonna happen. :)



And I'll raise you a $.20! :eek:

I am almost finished with an electronics project

hmmm

Sherv - you have it all wrong man, it is definitely more like this:

http://pets.onas.ru/dog_eating_cat.jpg

Sherv - you have it all wrong man, it is definitely more like this:



Go Willy! Tell him like it is!

Why, we could even start at 3:00 PM and quit by, say, oh 5:00 PM? Hows that sound?
So many hints, yet the message doesn't seem to be getting through :)

And actually, I think it's more like this:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/sibehsian/Rulai02.jpg

I don't know what that means......

Sherv - you have it all wrong man, it is definitely more like this:

as they say in your neck of the woods:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Eyeloveporn/werd.jpg

And here is what happens when Sherv doesn't show up to build on a Saturday morning.............

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/HALF/DSCN4133.jpg

Electronics get built and tested.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/IB/DSCN4136.jpg

Manifolds for an IB gets assembled and ready to install.

The Two Towers......... :eek: Just waiting on the sideline. :rolleyes:

Chuck

Looks cool--so what is it?

Looks cool--so what is it?

Ditto.

Ditto.

Jeremy! How you doing? Long time no hear (or see).
I assume you are referring to the black box. It is a low frequency phase adjust (0 - 360 degrees), selectable hi pass filter (6 - 24 Hz in 2 Hz increments), and a balanced line driver. I am getting quotes on the circuit boards shortly. Should cost less than $50 to build. It uses all Burr-Brown op amps, 1% metal film resistors, and 2% polyester film capacitors. It will have the capability to be built internally into an existing piece of equipment (like a power amp) or to be put into an external box with switches and controls accesible.

Chuck

Chuck,
Looks interesting.

I was speaking with Dave (radiofixer) over the weekend. He repairs car radios and has been in the electronic biz for a long time. I told him that he should give you a PM. He has an interesting idea for a sub install.

Chuck,
Looks interesting.

I was speaking with Dave (radiofixer) over the weekend. He repairs car radios and has been in the electronic biz for a long time. I told him that he should give you a PM. He has an interesting idea for a sub install.

Sounds Good.

Manifolds for an IB gets assembled and ready to install.

The Two Towers......... :eek: Just waiting on the sideline. :rolleyes:

Chuck
Looking good Chuck!! :)

oh, but don't worry.....the Two Towers will re-assume construction this saturday morning at 10:00am sharp!! the driver and port holes and installation will be done Saturday hopefully! After that, I can start sanding and painting in the next couple of weeks.


that IB manifold looks really good. Do you need me to get up into the attic and help? you know I am skinnier and lighter than you :p :D

ps- I have a circuit schematic I can bring for a variation of the HP circuit...but it's not much different. let me know.

ok guys....sorry once again for the delay, but We will ressume construction this saturday! :)

We hope to have the driver/port holes cut, and all the routing done. I will probably begin the internal foam integration, and covering the port as well. That way, next week I can start the grunt work of sanding, painting, sanding, painting, sanding, painting, etc. :o

a bad neck injury, work, and a few other commitments kept me from getting going the past few weeks. Also, I've been busy trying to replace my Pre/Pro, which coincidentally I found my mistress:

http://www.audiovision.dk/Proceed-avp2/ProceedAVP2Ad650.jpg
http://www.audiovision.dk/Proceed-avp2/Proceed-AVP-2-1000.jpg

Is that the replacement or is that what is being replaced. I think the proceed is a nice piece. It always got great write ups. Sorry to hear about your neck. I am still following this thread and I can not wait to see how it all unfolds.

Is that the replacement or is that what is being replaced. I think the proceed is a nice piece. It always got great write ups. Sorry to hear about your neck. I am still following this thread and I can not wait to see how it all unfolds.
this is the replacement! :cool:

yeah man, trust me, I'm getting IMs and PMs everyday asking when we are gonna finish this thing...i'm as anxious as you guys. :o

this is the replacement! :cool:

yeah man, trust me, I'm getting IMs and PMs everyday asking when we are gonna finish this thing...i'm as anxious as you guys. :o
Nice. Like I said, I always read great things about that piece. For me, it would not have worked because of the connections. But I am sure it sounds great. And I know that no one is more anxious then you to finish these up. I hope it is smooth from this point on :).

Do you have a link to the proceed?

AFAIK that proceed is not made any more. Proceed was folded back into its parent company Harmon Specialty groups a few years ago.
http://www.harmanspecialtygroup.com/index.asp

They are the parent company for several high end lines. As a result several products were phased out. I think that was one of them. But I am sure that they would pop up on the used market.

Do you have a link to the proceed?
they are discontinued pieces now....and highly sought after, like collector's items!!

case in point:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=707173

they are extremely high quality processors, and have pretty much all the internals as its bigger brother, the Mark Levinson no.40 :cool:

anyways, the bass management features of these bad boy, plus the accurate/noise free LFE reproduction of the analog path, and a pair of BFDs or a DEQ, will be nice addition to the two towers :)

So we shall see how it goes with "OLD MAN" Sherv and his injuries. He won't be able to do too much heavy work :eek: But if he brings the Proceed, work may get interrupted and if he doesn't bring the Proceed............................................



work may get interrupted. :(

On another note, the proceed does allow for two totally independent bass management settings for 2 subwoofers hooked up to it. Couple that with a pair of BFD's and a very nice rig could emerge from this. He'll be sanding and sealing this weekend getting it ready for the final stages. He at least finally told me how long to cut the ports for these guys. 30 inch overall length of port for a 12.5 Hz tune. Oh well, stay tuned for Saturday!

Chuck

30 inch overall length of port for a 12.5 Hz tune
Tsk tsk - make sure you guys don't permanently seal that top cap.

Tsk tsk - make sure you guys don't permanently seal that top cap.

Port resonances?

So we shall see how it goes with "OLD MAN" Sherv and his injuries. He won't be able to do too much heavy work :eek: But if he brings the Proceed, work may get interrupted and if he doesn't bring the Proceed............................................
Yo Chuck...Got a tracking number on the piece...it says expected 1/29 :(

I'm gonna see if it arrives to UPS on saturday so I can pick it up at location.

Tsk tsk - make sure you guys don't permanently seal that top cap.

I mentioned that to him last night. I said "Maybe you should leave the end caps unsealed so that adjustments can be made after the fact.".

Port resonances?
First one's at 225 Hz so it shouldn't be a problem.

I don't know what Steve's after though...