what are you talking about excactly ?

It sounds like he is saying that if you live in Japan, there is an upgrade that will allow your XBOX360 to output 1080P over component for everything, including DVDs. :confused:

Bizil,
I agree. These threads are all over the internet now.

What's funny is I just looked at the first page of this thread dated late November 2006 and many of the posts even back then are saying "soon." I just didn't know "soon" was relative to geological timelines. Perhaps MS is waiting for North America and Europe to once again be one continental landmass to avoid any PAL/NTSC issues that may arise over the millenia. ;)

You're funny. What's even funnier is that an "insider" at Microsoft who is supposedly responsible for some part of the HD-DVD player can't get a tiny little "Night Mode" patch realeased. Even though tons of people all over the internet are bitching about it and making MS look bad. Is this guy a real "insider", or a mailroom clerk?

Here's what I think happened:
- Users started bitching about the sound.
- Microsoft didn't believe them.
- Users kept bitching about the sound. (a month later)
- Microsoft looked into it, and found there was a problem. (a month later)
- Some users suggested it was a midnight mode problem.
- Microsoft totally missed this suggestion, until just a little while ago, when they figured it out.
- Embarrassed and pissed off, some folks at MS are dragging their asses on this, because that would be admitting they missed a big problem that would have been easy to fix.
- End result: 6 months later, customers still have a device that doesn't work as well as it could, with just a small patch to turn midnight mode off.

Someone needs to get fired.

you know why no one at microsoft stumbled across the problem and left that for their consumers to discover? because they know the drive isn't worth a darn. they all have stand-alone players that actually work. so it's no wonder why they did not realize the problem until the consumer made a racket over it.

You're funny. What's even funnier is that an "insider" at Microsoft who is supposedly responsible for some part of the HD-DVD player can't get a tiny little "Night Mode" patch realeased. Even though tons of people all over the internet are bitching about it and making MS look bad. Is this guy a real "insider", or a mailroom clerk?

Here's what I think happened:
- Users started bitching about the sound.
- Microsoft didn't believe them.
- Users kept bitching about the sound. (a month later)
- Microsoft looked into it, and found there was a problem. (a month later)
- Some users suggested it was a midnight mode problem.
- Microsoft totally missed this suggestion, until just a little while ago, when they figured it out.
- Embarrassed and pissed off, some folks at MS are dragging their asses on this, because that would be admitting they missed a big problem that would have been easy to fix.
- End result: 6 months later, customers still have a device that doesn't work as well as it could, with just a small patch to turn midnight mode off.

Someone needs to get fired.

you know why no one at microsoft stumbled across the problem and left that for their consumers to discover? because they know the drive isn't worth a darn. they all have stand-alone players that actually work. so it's no wonder why they did not realize the problem until the consumer made a racket over it.


Haha, you are probably right.. I wonder how many of them secretly have Blu-Ray players as well so they can watch all the blockbuster movies :)

But yes, I am not really sure how they missed this one when they were testing the product. I mean seriously, how do you miss something like "night mode" being turned on by default. It is like night and day (no pun intended) on my home setup when I enable night mode on my BR player and then turn it off.

I just want my HD DVD in DD+ and DTS! I mean it is not like we are complaining about not having TrueHD. I knew I was screwed out of having lossless sound due o the lack of HDMI on my 360 and 5.1 analog outs...

I have not been this pissed off about a product in a long time...

I just heard what an A2 sounds like with the sound downmixed to DTS 1.5Mbps.....and all I can say is WOW! It sounds incredible....way better than anything I've heard on SD DVD(DD and DTS). I don't really care to have lossless sound (can't justify the upgrade costs), but I'm totally fine with the DTS downmix.

I just wish that we had that now. When oh when will we get our patch....

Hmmm...I wonder what would get fix first, this or the PS3 DVd-Upscaling?

Hmmm...I wonder what would get fix first, this or the PS3 DVd-Upscaling?

I guess it will take at least two more month. Or maybe MS is going for the full year?

Who knows. It is useless to ask Amir because he usually comes up with just another lie about the date. How sad.

I guess once they deliver the update it will be totally bug infested and they will blame US because we pushed so hard that they "rushed" the update.

This is probably the lowest (non-illegal) performance in respect to customer orientation I EVER saw from an enterprise.


@Microsoft:

Microsoft, you can be really proud of yourself!

You make so much money that you can afford to treat your customers like your enemys. Great job!

I know, I am talking to the hand, the head is not listening...

Hmmm...I wonder what would get fix first, this or the PS3 DVd-Upscaling?
The amount that Sony pushes out updates I would say DVD upscaling for the PS3 will come first. We'll be lucky if we get any updates for the HD-DVD add-on this year.

The PS3 doesn't have a real scaler (hardware) like the 360 does. Sony would have to write software to do it.

The PS3 doesn't have a real scaler (hardware) like the 360 does. Sony would have to write software to do it. I swear that was debunked a couple months ago when Phil said there actually was some scaler hardware on it.

FWIW, the latest date is now well before [July 2] (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10343726&&#post10343726). I hope that means May, not June.

It's May 9th.

It's May 9th.
You're thinking of the Dashboard update, which BTW is May 7th.

Does anyone know if they are fixing the color problems found when using a vga cable. My colors on hd-dvd are very bland when I have it hooked up via vga. This is a known issue that still hasn't been fixed too. It's was so bad that I went and got a hd-a20 which I'm glad I did. I could have dealed with the sound being bad for the time being but the picture was just awful looked worse then dvd through vga. My point for using Vga was to get 1080p for hd-dvds since I own a 1080p set.

Does anyone know if they are fixing the color problems found when using a vga cable. My colors on hd-dvd are very bland when I have it hooked up via vga. This is a known issue that still hasn't been fixed too. It's was so bad that I went and got a hd-a20 which I'm glad I did. I could have dealed with the sound being bad for the time being but the picture was just awful looked worse then dvd through vga. My point for using Vga was to get 1080p for hd-dvds since I own a 1080p set.
Yes, they're fixing the black level issue for VGA. It took a year and a half for this to get fixed; I wouldn't hold your breath for the DRC update.

Did anyone notice any popping while listening to the TruHD track on the 360 hd-dvd drive? I didn't get a chance to try out the DD+ track (I had ppl over) but it only occured when there was a large explosion during the movie. The audio seemed fine for dialog during the movie, but loud booms caused some crackling in my front speakers.. I've watched several other hd-dvd movies and all sounded fine. I don't think this problem occured on other TruHD tracks, such as Batman or Troy

There may be some sort of scaler, but it's not a full-on real scaler, and it's pretty hidden.

It's not automatic where you set an output resolution and everything is scaled to that resolution. That's why at first there was an issue with Resistance, which runs in 720p. People were setting their PS3s to 1080i or 1080p, but only getting 480p with Resistance, because the PS3 doesn't scale. The 360 will output games, even original Xbox games, at whatever resolution you set it to.

Did anyone notice any popping while listening to the TruHD track on the 360 hd-dvd drive? I didn't get a chance to try out the DD+ track (I had ppl over) but it only occured when there was a large explosion during the movie. The audio seemed fine for dialog during the movie, but loud booms caused some crackling in my front speakers.. I've watched several other hd-dvd movies and all sounded fine. I don't think this problem occured on other TruHD tracks, such as Batman or Troy


There were reports of some people having issues with the TrueHD audio on the Nine Inch Nails disc recently.

Does anyone know if they are fixing the color problems found when using a vga cable. My colors on hd-dvd are very bland when I have it hooked up via vga. This is a known issue that still hasn't been fixed too. It's was so bad that I went and got a hd-a20 which I'm glad I did. I could have dealed with the sound being bad for the time being but the picture was just awful looked worse then dvd through vga. My point for using Vga was to get 1080p for hd-dvds since I own a 1080p set.


There will be the option to set the black output level. But if even after setting that properly and adjusting all of the picture controls, it still looks bad, then your display doesn't handle VGA very well. On my Samsung DLP, VGA gives a noticeably sharper picture, and colors are just as good if not better. And on the 37" 720p (1366x768) Vizio LCD I have at my desk at work (I work at a game company), component cables make games look horrible in comparison to VGA, which is crystal clear. So obviously the Vizio handles VGA very well and doesn't do analog very good.

So since my Pioneer receiver can decode all three, which should I choose? I'll assume it would be between DTS and WMAPro; while it would appear DTS has the advantage (1.5Mbps vs .768 Mbps), I heard WMAPro has a much better compression ratio. Is there any truth to that? Basically I am asking should I just stick with DTS?

WMAPro is also 1.5Mbps. Choose whatever you think sounds best for your setup. At these bitrates all 3 codecs are virtually transparrent.

I can swear I hear hudge difference the first time I switch to WMA vs DTS, but then I switch 10-15 times, all sounds the same. So don't let your first impression lean you in one direction or the other.

You're funny. What's even funnier is that an "insider" at Microsoft who is supposedly responsible for some part of the HD-DVD player can't get a tiny little "Night Mode" patch realeased. Even though tons of people all over the internet are bitching about it and making MS look bad. Is this guy a real "insider", or a mailroom clerk?


From one mailroom clerk: there was never a plan to release a "Night mode" patch. There is a planned update and there is a pile of stuff that went into it. The "Night mode" was one of the thousand bugfixes and improvements that went in.

From one mailroom clerk: there was never a plan to release a "Night mode" patch. There is a planned update and there is a pile of stuff that went into it. The "Night mode" was one of the thousand bugfixes and improvements that went in.

It good to here that the 'pile of stuff' is still coming. ETA is 2-3 weeks right. :p
Well even though MS is addressing the issue, in a way that can only be described as.... well whatever you call it, it's nice to know that a fix is coming. :rolleyes:

Sometime in

From one mailroom clerk: there was never a plan to release a "Night mode" patch. There is a planned update and there is a pile of stuff that went into it. The "Night mode" was one of the thousand bugfixes and improvements that went in.

So are we now to assume the 'night mode' is in the May 7th patch..?

Beyond Windows Live Messenger, the Spring Update for Xbox 360 includes hundreds of new features

Me so confused! :D

There were reports of some people having issues with the TrueHD audio on the Nine Inch Nails disc recently.

Yep, I have the same issue with that disc.

From one mailroom clerk: there was never a plan to release a "Night mode" patch. There is a planned update and there is a pile of stuff that went into it. The "Night mode" was one of the thousand bugfixes and improvements that went in.I think that Ghent's post history has proven him to be more than a "mailroom clerk" :D .

He gave early and accurate info on the Elite's PCM HDMI audio capability (2 channel only).

The TrueHD on NIN nearly blew out my amp and speakers with the cracking sound. We are talking about ducking your head as the roof caves in type of crack. Let's hope the MS geniuses patch that up on this release as well. :eek:

anyone else going to jump on the Toshiba bandwagon and ditch their add-ons if this isn't fixed by early May? the time they have known about this and had time to fix it is outrageous .......

anyone else going to jump on the Toshiba bandwagon and ditch their add-ons if this isn't fixed by early May? the time they have known about this and had time to fix it is outrageous .......

I already jumped on the Toshiba A2 when it was 309 from Amazon acouple weeks ago ... When the DTS update comes to the 360 HD drive ill just movie it over to my bedroom ;) So far the A2 is amazing im loving the audio quality !

Amir said in the insider thread they made a major milestone. Yep thats all, that was the news. Great.

I imagine the xbox team like a bunch of Ents (from Lord of the Rings). You know: let's not be hasty... this major milestone was probably to agree that there is a problem with the dynamics....

Amir said in the insider thread they made a major milestone. Yep thats all, that was the news. Great.

I imagine the xbox team like a bunch of Ents (from Lord of the Rings). You know: let's not be hasty... this major milestone was probably to agree that there is a problem with the dynamics....


you are funny!! LOL

you are funny!! LOL

i'm about to make a "major milestone" and buy a Toshiba.

does Amir have any idea how ridiculous this seems?

Since I'm "trying" to remain optimistic, I would take a guess and say that the "milestone" was hopefully that testing was completed and successful and their just having the patch certified. But who knows....your guess is as good as mine.

I check in here every so often and I can't believe Microsoft hasn't released this patch yet. Are they waiting for the end of the world? :rolleyes:

I hope they get the fixes out before the cheap Chinese HD DVD players show up at Wal-Mart.. Otherwise, I may be buying myself a cheap Chinese player and using the add-on as a doorstop....

In the Insider's thread, someone posted a message to Amir stating that they hope the DRC fix will be released before the Matrix trilogy comes out because it will ruin the experience (and I totally agree).

Amir's response was "Your experience won't be ruined . Now if you hold me to this statement, I will shoot you!"

I'm not holding my breath on this response because we've heard this a million times before, but somehow I kinda sorta believe him this time. So, if all goes well, we can expect the fix before May 22.

it's still too long for me

I'm already looking fur buyers for my xbox plus HD-drive. I'm fed up with all the delays. I gave MS 5 months, that is long enough

In the Insider's thread, someone posted a message to Amir stating that they hope the DRC fix will be released before the Matrix trilogy comes out because it will ruin the experience (and I totally agree).

Amir's response was "Your experience won't be ruined . Now if you hold me to this statement, I will shoot you!"

I'm not holding my breath on this response because we've heard this a million times before, but somehow I kinda sorta believe him this time. So, if all goes well, we can expect the fix before May 22.

sounds to me like he's just setting us up for another delay since he doesn't want us to "hold him to his word". this is pathetic.

DONE!!!!


I sold my Xbox HDDVD drive on Saturday. Good riddance to bad rubbish as far as I'm concerned.


I ordered a Toshiba HD-A20, and it should be arriving on Monday. I have an HDMI receiver, so the switch was necessary. With the 5 free HD-DVDs I'll be getting, plus the salvage value of the old Xbox drive, I'll be out only $120 for the upgrade...trez worth it in my opinion. I'll post a full review with pictures once it arrives.

sounds to me like he's just setting us up for another delay since he doesn't want us to "hold him to his word". this is pathetic.

what i read into this was not so much a delay, but that the fix will not make the audio sound all that great.

Then MS can make a mausoleum ;) of all returned, and dead drives lol.

I guess this pretty much guarantees we won't get the night mode and audio sync update before the Dashboard update.

Someone attended the last roadshow stop he had and they were told face to face that it would be after the dash update.

or at least that was the cryptic answer.

Someone attended the last roadshow stop he had and they were told face to face that it would be after the dash update.

or at least that was the cryptic answer.

That was me, and that was only what I interpreted from his answer. He did not give any specific date, but made reference to a "time frame" that suggested TO ME that the dash update would be first. Please do not attribute that inference to amir.

just an update for those not keeping track...

11/27/06 -- thread started.

04/25/07 -- thread still going. 5 months and 44 pages of unhappy campers. problem NOT resolved.

just an update for those not keeping track...

11/27/06 -- thread started.

04/25/07 -- thread still going. 5 months and 44 pages of unhappy campers. problem NOT resolved.

That is just flat out depressing.. If I had to do it all over again, I would have waited and bought an A2.. This update better be worth it....

You can still get an A2 and use both!

This is ********.

You can still get an A2 and ue both!

Well, my add-on plays all the discs that my A2 currently won't: COM/SA/Hollywoodland. Seems there is no perfect answer yet. The add-on is STILL the least expensive entry into HD discs, any way you slice it.

What Arpeggi said!

I had the HD-D2 and wasn't that much impressed by it. Yeah it was HDMI, but when the sound left my TV into my reciever via a coaxial cable it wasn't able to decode it. I had to use the optical SPDIF to hear the sound on my Yamaha reciever. I have to admit the sound was awesome, and when we get the update Im sure it will be close to it. Another thing was that the HD-D2 took so long to start up. The add on is pretty quick. The xbox 360 loads up quicker than the HD-D2. Finally the price is unbeatable. Now if the toshiba drops below the add -on's price then I might consider going that route. A little of topic but sometimes I wonder if I should've invested in this product since we don't even know if it will win the format war. Bluray seems to be releasing a lot of good movies. :rolleyes:

After 5 months of waiting for the patch. I have noticed that in this forum many people have sold, returned their HD DVD add on and went ahead and purchased a stand alone HD DVD player. The elite is coming out with the patch already installed on the system, but we still have to wait. This will provoke many people to sell, trade in or keep the old system and still buy the new elite for the improved audio. Now you can see what is happening. When you sell your addon you are adding another person to the HD DVD format, then you buy a standalone player for yourself. The more we wait the more impatient we get. Desperation sets in an we shell out the extra bucks for standalone players. Microsoft wins with the elite and Toshiba wins with the boost in sales from all of us that gave up on the HD DVD addon. This is just my theory, tell me what you think. :rolleyes:

After 5 months of waiting for the patch. I have noticed that in this forum many people have sold, returned their HD DVD add on and went ahead and purchased a stand alone HD DVD player. The elite is coming out with the patch already installed on the system, but we still have to wait. This will provoke many people to sell, trade in or keep the old system and still buy the new elite for the improved audio. Now you can see what is happening. When you sell your addon you are adding another person to the HD DVD format, then you buy a standalone player for yourself. The more we wait the more impatient we get. Desperation sets in an we shell out the extra bucks for standalone players. Microsoft wins with the elite and Toshiba wins with the boost in sales from all of us that gave up on the HD DVD addon. This is just my theory, tell me what you think. :rolleyes:

The Elite does not have the patch already loaded. Here's part of an article comparing the Elite to "classic" 360. No mention of DTS.

"Audio
We can now definitely confirm that despite its HDMI output, the Xbox 360 Elite still doesn't enable advanced codec support (like Dolby TrueHD). You still have the same three options as you had before: digital stereo, Dolby Digital 5.1, and DD with WMA Pro. When we played back an HD DVD with TrueHD audio (Batman Begins), it just stayed on DD5.1, nothing else happened. Bummer. But again, that's what we were expecting."

http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/26/...lassic-the-test

Can the elite be purchased anywhere yet?

I read from one of Amirm's post that the elite does have the audio patch installed. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

The Elite does not have the patch already loaded. Here's part of an article comparing the Elite to "classic" 360. No mention of DTS.

"Audio
We can now definitely confirm that despite its HDMI output, the Xbox 360 Elite still doesn't enable advanced codec support (like Dolby TrueHD). You still have the same three options as you had before: digital stereo, Dolby Digital 5.1, and DD with WMA Pro. When we played back an HD DVD with TrueHD audio (Batman Begins), it just stayed on DD5.1, nothing else happened. Bummer. But again, that's what we were expecting."

http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/26/...lassic-the-test



I read from one of Amirm's post that the elite does have the audio patch installed. Someone correct me if I am wrong. We all know that the elite does not support True HD. It will need 1.3 hdmi to get the lossless sound.

I read from one of Amirm's post that the elite does have the audio patch installed. Someone correct me if I am wrong. We all know that the elite does not support True HD. It will need 1.3 hdmi to get the lossless sound.
I don't remember Amir saying that at all, but I could have missed it.

BTW, I got Fearless yesterday, and Fearless suffers from sync issues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10405506#post10405506) as well. :( It's particularly easy to tell with this title, since it has a DVD side as well, and that's perfectly sync'd.

The Elite does not have the patch already loaded. Here's part of an article comparing the Elite to "classic" 360. No mention of DTS.
...

Let me try and clarify things. The Dashboard software is completely independant of the HD-DVD player software. The DTS and all other issues discussed in this thread are part of the HD-DVD player software.

I don't know what version of the Dashboard the Elite ships with but it is defenitely not the "Spring" update - as that is not yet released. Once the update is released you can upgrade as any other Xbox.

The HD-DVD player software is ascually stored on the HD-DVD drive itself, not on the Xbox, so the Elite or not would have no effect on that either.

Good news is that the HD-DVD update is "almost" out of the door. So the 5/7 date announced by Amir is quite accurate this time.

Let me try and clarify things. The Dashboard software is completely independant of the HD-DVD player software. The DTS and all other issues discussed in this thread are part of the HD-DVD player software.
This is true.

I don't know what version of the Dashboard the Elite ships with but it is defenitely not the "Spring" update - as that is not yet released. Once the update is released you can upgrade as any other Xbox.

This is true. Both updates are still in QA, and Elites are already sitting in stores, so I'm not sure how they would have an unreleased patch.

The HD-DVD player software is ascually stored on the HD-DVD drive itself, not on the Xbox, so the Elite or not would have no effect on that either.
I think you are wrong here. The software that plays all video/movies is on the hard drive. Unless you have proof otherwise.

Good news is that the HD-DVD update is "almost" out of the door. So the 5/7 date announced by Amir is quite accurate this time.

I follow these things very closely, but a 5/7 date for the HD DVD patch has never ever been stated by Amir. Can you provide a link to where he said it if I'm wrong?

The most specific he has ever been about a date was "early to mid spring".

I follow these things very closely, but a 5/7 date for the HD DVD patch has never ever been stated by Amir. Can you provide a link to where he said it if I'm wrong?

The most specific he has ever been about a date was "early to mid spring".
He says it should be close (http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10413781&&#post10413781) to the Dashboard update release date.

"There are two updates: one for the dashboard where the VGA/Level fix is. And the other for HD DVD features you list above. The schedule is seperate for these two releases but at this point, pretty close to each other. So you will need to get the right update to get those features/fixes."

If "close" is anything like "soon", then I wouldn't get your hopes up.

In the Major Nelson podcast recently, the MS rep stated that the Elite would already have the Spring update. Maybe they changed that but that is what the MS rep in the interview said about the Elite.

It's not the spring update that's the issue, they've already confirmed a May 7th date on that.

If "close" is anything like "soon", then I wouldn't get your hopes up.

You are reading my brain! ;)

"Soon" means "more than half a year",

"weeks but not months" means "at least serveral months",

and "close" probably means "in the same year".

I think you are wrong here. The software that plays all video/movies is on the hard drive. Unless you have proof otherwise.




So the harddrive is required for the HD-DVD drive? I cannot find any indication anywhere saying so? Doesn't mention a required harddrive on the box.

That might be the proof you are looking for, but I could be wrong.

Hard drive is not required, I'm playing Eternal Sunshine right now with my HDD detached from the system...no mem card either....and I'm streaming media from the PC..not at the same time of course :p ..works...

think you are wrong here. The software that plays all video/movies is on the hard drive. Unless you have proof otherwise.Ghent has been proven to be a MS insider. I've also read MSFT state that the HD DVD addon does not require a hard drive XBOX 360.

Ghent has been proven to be a MS insider. I've also read MSFT state that the HD DVD addon does not require a hard drive XBOX 360.

If that's true, then my apologies to Ghent. He really should get Insider status then, so he can post in the insider forum etc.

Ghent:

So let me get this straight. The HD DVD drive stores all the playback stoftware needed, yet all the processing is done on the Xbox?

So that would mean that every time an HD DVD is played, it "runs" the software off of the add-ons memory?

So what was the driver disc that came with the 360 for then? What did it do? Where did it install?

You are reading my brain! ;)

"Soon" means "more than half a year",

"weeks but not months" means "at least serveral months",

and "close" probably means "in the same year".

Word!

So what was the driver disc that came with the 360 for then? What did it do? Where did it install?

It wasn't a driver disk, it had HD DVD updated software. If you have your 360 connected to the internet, the disk is not needed. Right now, the disk is current with the version that can be downloaded on MS's website.

so, sold. will never have to worry about the crap again. hope that my HD-E1 is coming the day after tomorrow. only lost 8 EUR and now I will be able to enjoy all my HD DVD with best sound quality

"Night at the Musem" is in DTS...guess this means it's going to suck in thy xbox hd-dvd.

"Night at the Musem" is in DTS...guess this means it's going to suck in thy xbox hd-dvd.

On the chance that you're not joking. and to avoid confusing anyone else:

Night at the Museum is Blu-ray only.

The Xbox 360 add-on drive does just fine with DTS tracks. The only audio problem is with DD+, which is locked in "night mode." The fix for that is coming soon.

Maybe he just meant the standard DVD is a DTS track. Hopefully he knows "Night at the Museum" is a Blu-Ray only HD release.

And DTS tracks on standard DVD's works FINE on the 360 addon.

Yeah my bad, I meant Standard DVD. I understood that the xbox didn't decode DTS at all...I haven't tried it yet with a "known" dts soundtrack so I'll find out soon enough.

The Xbox doesn't decode DTS from standard DVD's but it will pass the DTS stream to your pre/pro or receiver for decoding. With HD-DVD, it (currently) transcodes all formats to DD to pass on for decoding. This will change with the HDDVD update to allow transcoding to DTS for pass thru.
(correct me if I'm wrong?)

So let me get this straight. The HD DVD drive stores all the playback stoftware needed, yet all the processing is done on the Xbox?

So that would mean that every time an HD DVD is played, it "runs" the software off of the add-ons memory?

The HD-DVD drive has some USB flash memory much like a USB flash drive. I'm not sure how much it is, but it is enough for the software and the rest is used for bookmarks etc.

When you stick a HD-DVD disk, the software is loaded from the HD-DVD drive flash to the xbox memory much like any windows software can be run from a USB stick. Then the player runs on the xbox.

I read from one of Amirm's post that the elite does have the audio patch installed. Someone correct me if I am wrong. We all know that the elite does not support True HD. It will need 1.3 hdmi to get the lossless sound.



I asked Amirm about the audio patch on the Elite and he replyed with this:


Re: Audio Patch on the Elite?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bori
Amirm,


Does the Elite have the audio patch for the HD DVD addon pre installed in the system?


No it does not. That is a seperate update.

__________________
Amir
Microsoft (HD DVD insider)
VC-1 video codec insider in BD/HD DVD
Ask me questions about HD DVD here

Its hard for me to watch hd dvd's withe the xbox as the audio is horrible. The games sounds great, but the audio quality of the hd dvd player just blows. quite embarassing if you as me.

Are you guys outputting via toslink? I mean the audio just doesn't seem as bad as some of you make it out to be. I will admit some movies sound better than others using this thing...but it's not that bad. I'm certainly not setting around crying in my beer waiting for a firmware update.

Are you guys outputting via toslink? I mean the audio just doesn't seem as bad as some of you make it out to be. I will admit some movies sound better than others using this thing...but it's not that bad. I'm certainly not setting around crying in my beer waiting for a firmware update.

After the patch you will change your mind.

After the patch you will change your mind.



Thats if the patch ever gets here!

it's as slow as the matrix's bullet time ;p

I'm certainly not setting around crying in my beer waiting for a firmware update.

Are you stalking me?

I wonder if this update will be part of the much-hyped May Dashboard Update (apologies if this has been posted before)?

I wonder if this update will be part of the much-hyped May Dashboard Update (apologies if this has been posted before)?

It's a seperate update but they should be close together according to MS. :)

well, I am almost done with this mess. I'm looking to put my HD add-on on ebay now and get the XA2. Why can't Microsoft just release this firmware upgrade already? Now we can't even get the sound fixed on May 7th with the rest of the Dashboard update? Simply amazing. I have literally been holding off on watching some of my HD DVDs until M$ gets the sound fixed but I'm on the brink of giving up and selling the damn thing. amazing.

Are you stalking me?


Considering you are half-way around the world from me...I think not. Have another Fosters buddy. Or do you guys actually drink "real" Aussie beer downunder?



Microsoft hasn't found any new technology lately to rip off which might explain why the can't fix the "sound issue".


I gotta go I think I see black helicopters outside.

This fix will get deployed to over 250k+ systems. The test bed for compatability is massive. The update has to be tested on many Xbox 360s (to make sure it doesn't break base functionality) and with many different receivers (to ensure high compatability) and with many HD DVDs (to ensure high title compatability). When you sum all this up and pass it through a test matrix process you get a very large number of combinations and hours of testing required. The primary goal of this fix is to ensure stability of the software with as many titles as possible. This is the primary goal since most of the target audience unaware of the DRC issue. This test process takes time since people have to actually watch and listen to many of the movies. They have to test handling of unique scenarios such as an overloaded AC3 signal which can occur in any random assortment of movies.

We have to be patient for this stress test to complete. Once they have reached their stability bar, the fix can be deployed. I would rather wait for a stable release than have to endure new bugs. Just look at the HTPC forum for HD DVD software and all the software problems they are having to deal with. For the most part, the 360 HD DVD player works well.

With all due respect Black Magic, they have had 7 months to work on this now and people, by in large, have been patient. Many of us are just perplexed by the delay and some are very frustrated with being told repeatedly that it's coming "soon". I have no doubt they will fix it, but they haven't really handled this very well.

Exactly! If the testing was the reason for the delay they should have told us from the beginning, that the fix will require months of testing. They should have told us, that they have no clue how to fix the problem and that the months of testing haven't even started yet.

Then we could have simply went on, returned the broken drive to MS or salvaged whatever we could get for it from e-bay.

But they told us BS, like the bug fix is "coming soon" or in "weeks but not months". So we got stuck for half a year with a broken piece of trash.

In my company someone who ***** this bad with a customer would get fired. There is NO way to excuse this communication behavior from MS.

With all due respect Black Magic, they have had 7 months to work on this now and people, by in large, have been patient. Many of us are just perplexed by the delay and some are very frustrated with being told repeatedly that it's coming "soon". I have no doubt they will fix it, but they haven't really handled this very well.

exactly. a team of three of us could test the add-on with pretty much every brand of receiver/tv on the market in about a week. 7 months is a joke.

also, a lot of our frustration comes from the mixed messages and cryptic half-truths we get from Amir and MS on this issue...it's like we are having to second guess and analyze every comment we get from them on this problem since we can't seem to get any solid info.

just look how long it took them to figure out the NIGHT MODE problem when people were screaming that it was probably something like that from day ONE!!

argh!!!!!!!!!

OLEUS

and many, including myself, trusted 'the insider' and allowed myself to be persuaded to keep the add-on vs. returning it by empty promises of fixes to be released, 'soon'. it also stifled the angry voices of many. but now we're beginning to speak up and lash out. harsh reality.

edit, of course voicing our opinion in the 'insider's' thread only leads to prompt removal of such posts. i understand why on avs' behalf, but still, it needs to be heard, the things we 'cry' about.

I agree with all the frustrations. I have had this player since day one. Since day two, I've been waiting for the audio fix. Being told that it is coming "soon" kept me from returning it within the 30 days I was allowed.

I think MS should own up and offer a full or partial refund, as this goes on and on and on.

I find I am no longer excited to get new HD-DVD movies lately since I know I'm not truely getting the most out of them.

It is ridiculous to say the least. If this patch isn't out by the time the Matrix arrives in three weeks, I give up on this broken add-on completely. That will be close to the six month anniversary of this issue that is "soon" to be fixed.

I appreciate Amir's posting to the forums, but I would honestly rather get a worst case scenario regarding this patch over the misleading and unclear messages being sent.

There are news from Amir. The bug fix is only "days" away.

But no need to get exited. It looks like days does not mean what you would think in the first place it would mean, namely that the fix is just a couple days away. It appears to be still a few more days away then just days.

Meaning: at least one week. "But not weeks" as Amir said. - Where have I heard that before?

Well if the fix really arrives between May 7 and May 14 I guess I have to look for a new obsession and have to give up my work as Microsoft's personal "Plagegeist".

But then...let's not be hasty... I want to see the update first...

i am hours away from selling my xbox add-on because of this.....well, maybe not hours but certainly about a day. and given that there are seven days in a week we will say a week just to be safe.

and if there will be any delays past that (don't shoot me!), i might be able to let you know no later than 2 weeks from now.

oleus

YEAH, update might just suck ass anyway. we'll see. but i, for one, am not about to jump all over amir's tip and kiss his butt when it finally does come out. and i've also learned about M$'s customer and product support. i haven't had too many problems with m$, but now i have/do.

There are news from Amir. The bug fix is only "days" away.

But no need to get exited. It looks like days does not mean what you would think in the first place it would mean, namely that the fix is just a couple days away. It appears to be still a few more days away then just days.

Meaning: at least one week. "But not weeks" as Amir said. - Where have I heard that before?

Well if the fix really arrives between May 7 and May 14 I guess I have to look for a new obsession and have to give up my work as Microsoft's personal "Plagegeist".

But then...let's not be hasty... I want to see the update first...
That reminds me. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084726/quotes) I hope Star Trek looks good on HD DVD.

"Admiral, if we go "by the book". like Lieutenant Saavik, hours could seem like days."

Anyways, I'm confident the DTS option will work fine, and the DD+ night mode bug will also be fixed.

I'm also confident that some of the synchronization issues will get fixed, but I'm not convinced that all will get fixed. There is a slight and consistent lag issue that occurs on some discs like Batman Begins (hammer scene near the end) on not only the Xbox 360, but also the Toshiba players. It makes me wonder if the Toshiba and Xbox 360 share some code, since they apparently have similar problems.

Days Away, humm


Deer Season is days away too

The Cubs winning the world series is just days away.

Man going to Mars is just days away.


What does this mean?


***********************

Obviously if it were "easy" to fix it would have been. To me this sounds like they've had to do a total rewrite of the firmware in order to turn off night mode. How do you mess that up...what nerd missed that to start with? Can they not hire some super geek audiophile to make sure their products pass the test before mass production? I bet there are bigger issues we don't know about with this alleged update. More to do with encryption and copy protection law more than DTS or DD.

Obviously if it were "easy" to fix it would have been. To me this sounds like they've had to do a total rewrite of the firmware in order to turn off night mode. How do you mess that up...what nerd missed that to start with? Can they not hire some super geek audiophile to make sure their products pass the test before mass production? I bet there are bigger issues we don't know about with this alleged update. More to do with encryption and copy protection law more than DTS or DD.
FWIW, the claim is that the default is night mode (as mandated by the Dolby specs), if there is no option for night vs normal mode in the setup menu.

It seems that someone just forgot about this default.

What I don't quite understand is why they didn't pick up on it before release, and why it took them so long to realize this was the issue after so many people complained about it.

However, that's all in the past... and the present... Hopefully, the "days"-away future fixes this as promised.

Considering you are half-way around the world from me...I think not. Have another Fosters buddy. Or do you guys actually drink "real" Aussie beer downunder?

To be honest I was actually drinking Stella Artois. :)

More on topic... days! That's a good sign. I think. :o

FWIW, the claim is that the default is night mode (as mandated by the Dolby specs), if there is no option for night vs normal mode in the setup menu.

It seems that someone just forgot about this default.

What I don't quite understand is why they didn't pick up on it before release, and why it took them so long to realize this was the issue after so many people complained about it.

However, that's all in the past... and the present... Hopefully, the "days"-away future fixes this as promised.

thank you, thats what I been screaming since day one

I find I am no longer excited to get new HD-DVD movies lately since I know I'm not truely getting the most out of them.

It is ridiculous to say the least. If this patch isn't out by the time the Matrix arrives in three weeks, I give up on this broken add-on completely. That will be close to the six month anniversary of this issue that is "soon" to be fixed.




Just think...when the patch does come out, you can rewatch all your movies and feel the excitement all over again.

I do hope it comes in the month of may. I am stuck with the addon, I will have a hard time convincing the wife we need to replace the Addon, for a standalone(because of a audio glitch she doesn't notice), especially when the baby will be here in November

To be honest I was actually drinking Stella Artois. :)

More on topic... days! That's a good sign. I think. :o

I think I'll stick my Shiner Bock.

I'm a bit confused on exactly what problem folks are hearing with the Add-on. Here's what I've noticed with Ant Bully (unfortunately this is the only HD-DVD that I have with TrueHD since I'm unwilling to buy any more software until this issue gets addressed by MS, therefore I'm not sure this is an Add-on issue or an Ant Bully issue):

DD+ acts like it has DRC turned on.
Surrounds in TrueHD seem muted or non-existent (or maybe even DRCed).

The DD sound from the DVD version of Ant Bully sounds fine/great in my standalone DVD player as well as in the 360.

exactly. a team of three of us could test the add-on with pretty much every brand of receiver/tv on the market in about a week.

Please do send resumes my way!!! I would love to have a team of such dedicated individuals.

Now jokes aside, it does not take 7 months of testing, nor does it take a week. It is almost done a few more days do go trough the final release steps.

It should be released around 5/7 - 5/11.

I'm a bit confused on exactly what problem folks are hearing with the Add-on. Here's what I've noticed with Ant Bully (unfortunately this is the only HD-DVD that I have with TrueHD since I'm unwilling to buy any more software until this issue gets addressed by MS, therefore I'm not sure this is an Add-on issue or an Ant Bully issue):

DD+ acts like it has DRC turned on.
Surrounds in TrueHD seem muted or non-existent (or maybe even DRCed).

The DD sound from the DVD version of Ant Bully sounds fine/great in my standalone DVD player as well as in the 360.


DRC is only affecting DolbyDigital Plus tracks. All other tracks (DD,DTS,TrueHD) are fine. DRC doesn't affect TrueHD tracks.

However, there is some sound lag on some of the TrueHD discs though, but this seems to be unrelated to the DRC problem.

It should be released around 5/7 - 5/11.

Well, the credibility of MS is pretty much shot so these kind of claims are almost worthless at this point. We'll believe it when we see it and test it to ensure it doesn't fubar anything else MS didn't happen to pay attention to while coding.

Thanks Ghent for the estimate.

Ghent is trying to help us out guys.. no need to berate him. He hasn't mislead us in the past as far as I know.

Please do send resumes my way!!! I would love to have a team of such dedicated individuals.

Now jokes aside, it does not take 7 months of testing, nor does it take a week. It is almost done a few more days do go trough the final release steps.

It should be released around 5/7 - 5/11.

Thanks for the update! *insert crossing fingers smilies*

Why doesn't DRC affect TrueHD? THe TrueHD standard supports dynamic compression as well. So although the sound is a lot better with TrueHD because the overall dynamics are larger than DD Plus, are you sure we are not experiencing some level of compression on this too? There have been a few "funnies" I have noticed when playing with TrueHD that would suggest it wasn't quite as I would have expected.

DRC is only affecting DolbyDigital Plus tracks. All other tracks (DD,DTS,TrueHD) are fine. DRC doesn't affect TrueHD tracks.

However, there is some sound lag on some of the TrueHD discs though, but this seems to be unrelated to the DRC problem.

I love muh add-on! I th'o't it sounds terrific an' don' sound muttled at all. Maybe ya pimpz iz not use ta hearing true sound.... maybe dis here whole tyme we's wuz listening ta wrong sound an' dis here iz right sound. Ever thought about dat??? peace

Why doesn't DRC affect TrueHD? THe TrueHD standard supports dynamic compression as well. So although the sound is a lot better with TrueHD because the overall dynamics are larger than DD Plus, are you sure we are not experiencing some level of compression on this too? There have been a few "funnies" I have noticed when playing with TrueHD that would suggest it wasn't quite as I would have expected.
The times I've listened to TrueHD tracks, they've sounded quite dynamic, as expected. It's clear they are somehow implemented differently on the 360.

The main problem with TrueHD tracks is their significant sync problems on the 360 with the current software.

I love muh add-on! I th'o't it sounds terrific an' don' sound muttled at all. Maybe ya pimpz iz not use ta hearing true sound.... maybe dis here whole tyme we's wuz listening ta wrong sound an' dis here iz right sound. Ever thought about dat??? peace


ummmm......yeah. :rolleyes:

I love muh add-on! I th'o't it sounds terrific an' don' sound muttled at all. Maybe ya pimpz iz not use ta hearing true sound.... maybe dis here whole tyme we's wuz listening ta wrong sound an' dis here iz right sound. Ever thought about dat??? peace
Ay homey, you best betta get yo azz back on da Wii, we be serious up in here

thetooth is just reverting back to his strange version of humour.

----

Regarding the sync issues, Hellfire states: (http://forums.xbox.com/5/8181232/ShowPost.aspx#8181232)

we found a pretty systemic issue that caused everything to go off by a little bit. some tracks, like batman's truehd, were encoded slightly off to begin with (i.e. they weren't in sync with the DD+ track), and that, coupled with the delay we added, pushed it into the realm of noticeability for some discs.

btw, to the earlier poster: i just watched total recall recently on the new player code and didn't see any lip sync issues, so it'll be fixed when we ship real soon.

so do we have dts yet or not?

does the elite have it?

The downside is that Microsoft seems to have opted for something less than the HDMI version 1.3 found on the PlayStation 3. That means that any movies played on the optional HD DVD add-on will be limited to standard Dolby Digital soundtracks, not the higher resolution Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD, or DTS-HD Master Audio. On the bright side, Microsoft does include the HDMI cable in the box, unlike the PS3 and the Apple TV.
-Cnet

CRAP!

so do we have dts yet or not?

does the elite have it?
Apparently you didn't bother to read the last 2 pages of this thread but to make it simpler for you:

1) No
2) No

Please do send resumes my way!!! I would love to have a team of such dedicated individuals.

Now jokes aside, it does not take 7 months of testing, nor does it take a week. It is almost done a few more days do go trough the final release steps.

It should be released around 5/7 - 5/11.

can i cast my vote for 5/7?

also, i share my name with your m$ president. do i still need to send in a resume? to work for your test dept, all i require for payment is free test hd dvd's. deal? what say you?

also, i share my name with your m$ president. do i still need to send in a resume? to work for your test dept, all i require for payment is free test hd dvd's. deal? what say you?

I don't think that's enough. You probably have to compete with other applicants, like Vivian Smith-Smythe-Smith, Simon Zinc-Trumpet-Harris, Nigel Incubator-Jones, Gervaise Brook-Hampster, and Oliver St. John-Mollusc, for the job. ;)

I bet on 5/11 or sooner (which actually means "or later").

Well if I read those dates as British format, then 5/7 is 5th of July and 5/11 is 5th of November. I agree there is an extremely good chance of the fix before either of those dates so your bets are pretty good! :P

While I agree TrueHD does sound great from the mains, my point is that it still has a problem with the rear surrounds, at least with Ant Bully it does. They're soft.

Or is this an isolated case with just Ant Bully?

thanks all.

While I agree TrueHD does sound great from the mains, my point is that it still has a problem with the rear surrounds, at least with Ant Bully it does. They're soft.

Or is this an isolated case with just Ant Bully?

thanks all.
I didn't notice this with my other TrueHD discs. It could be that I hadn't paid enough attention to my surrounds, but FWIW, I have full range surrounds.

However, I have not tried Ant Bully, so I can't comment on Ant Bully specifically.

I bought the 360 Elite on Sunday and HD DVD add on this weekend. It all works great and I love it. The main reason I chose the XBOX was for the Media Extender abilities. When I went to rent an HD DVD on Sunday, though, I was sad to see that all the movies I wanted to watch were on Blu Ray. What gives.

After reading more, I know am tempted to buy a PS3 and an original XBOX (modded). That way I get Blu Ray and the Media Extender for just $20 more than the Elite with add-on.

I can't fine reasons to make me want to keep the 360 with HD DVD. Please help with facts.

is this update going to be on the disc that comes with XBOX mag? I don't have Live so I just want some way of getting itOh snap!

Isn't there a free version of Xbox Live? Aren't we living in the Internet age?

You don't have to pay for Xbox Live to download software updates.

---

P.S. Update on the sync issue: (http://forums.xbox.com/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=6&PostID=12138067)

right, the delay we inadvertently added is the systemic a/v sync issue i spoke of.

all a/v sync issues i know of have been fixed, or more accurately, fixed enough into the realm of unnoticeability (by our measurements, it turns out the toshiba player also was a bit late with audio, but no one ever noticed. we're now more accurate than the toshibas, AFAWCT).

batman begins problem - this is just how this particular trueHD track was mastered (it was barely off)

As has been pointed out by some developers, there are over a million lines of code in the HD DVD addon,


4.7 million lines of code, much more now with the additions and compatibility fixes:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10261731&&#post10261731

If I was a betting man I would say that there is a lot of work going to patching security holes in the firmware. I can't remember where I saw it, but pretty sure they can update the drive firmware via Live. So maybe all this HD-DVD cracking is the reason we can't get a simple Night mode on/off switch.


This is what I tend to think. It's deeper than turning off night mode...they are doing a complete rewrite of the firmware to be in compliance with the AACP or whatever those bloats on the HTPC forum are talking about.

About the idea of updating the HD DVD's firmware so it's more protective. Anyone doing this isn't putting this drive on the 360, they are using a PC instead. Meaning they would be wasting their time doing this as those ripping wouldn't be affected.

Don't worry there will be a innocent Windows Update thrown out there too. You have automatic updates on right? No? Ok, we will just include into the next 360 XP/Vista driver update. It will be hidden somewhere deep in the EULA, so you will know when it is coming. :) Won't download the driver? Ok, it will be in the next Media Player update. Etc... Don't worry they will get it in there.

Remember MS is part of the AACS group. If I were to take another bet, I would say that the edict came down something like this, "This firmware gets fixed first. Nothing goes out the door until then." The Night Mode/DTS update will fix (atleast for now) the firmware, that will get 80-90% of the drives in the wild. All new drives will have the firmware. So now you are down to a handfull of drives to pick off with PC based updates. Throw in general hardware failure too, and the problem solves itself!

Commenting is one thing, but whining as if MS ran over your cat is another.

Agreed. Moaning about "lies", "a million monkeys", "deceit", etc, serves no useful purpose, nor does it advance our status with regard to the update(s). I have said it before, and I'll say it again: The situation is what it is, and it will get fixed when it gets fixed. No amount of whining, accusing, complaining or finger pointing will change that fact. The important thing to note is that it WILL get fixed. And then the professional whiners and conspiracy theorists will have to find something else to zero in on......and I'm sure they will! :rolleyes:

Does anyone have a hard date on the fix?

Does anyone have a hard date on the fix?

According to Ghent, between 5/7 and 5/11

Reopening due to popular demand. That said, this thread is about DTS output being added to the XBOX 360.

It is NOT a thread about how much you may hate Microsoft
It is NOT a thread about how much you may hate Wal*Mart
It is NOT a thread comparing HD-DVD and BD releases
It is NOT a thread about the PS3

I've rolled the thread back beyond three pages of off-topic posts, member bashing and the other things that generally get a thread closed. I didn't remove them all and I may have removed some posts that were on topic and valid.

Please keep this thread on topic. Don't troll. Don't respond to trolling. Don't insult other members. And, most importantly, don't cut into my beer-drinking time!! :D

Well, tomorrow is the seventh. We will see if the number 7 truly is lucky.

Can I stay up late and be hopeful for a 12:01am update?

Watch here for updates:
http://www.majornelson.com/

Can I stay up late and be hopeful for a 12:01am update?

you can stay up late if you promise to get up for work ;)


seriously, I think its a rolling update, so you may not get it as soon as you log in

seriously, I think its a rolling update, so you may not get it as soon as you log in
What does "rolling update" mean?

And remember, there's no guarantee it will come May 7. All the MS insiders here and elsewhere say it's soon, but nobody is willing to guarantee it will be the same day as the Dashboard update.

---

BTW, some perspective from an outsider (me) on the work that seems to have gone into this may be of interest to some of you.

Way back when, when I posted the audio sync thread in the Xbox forum and was discussing it at Doom9, I was pm'd and was asked lots of questions by MS people about the sync problems. It was clear that some were not quite aware of the extent of the problem, but it was also clear that they were very, very interested in what we had to say.

A month later I was told that some of the sync issues could be corrected but the milder DD+ sync issues might be harder to correct.

And then a few months later we are told that both were corrected (at least into the realm of imperceptibility, as far as they could tell).

IOW, it's clear they have been steadily progressing with the work with this as time has gone on, and the above doesn't even address all the work that has gone into the DD+ dynamics issue, the addition of DTS and WMA Pro support, or the fixes of the various disc compatibility issues (like playback compatibility for my HDScape sampler disc that arrived in my mailbox last week).

I for one am quite appreciative, and look forward to the update. Hopefully it will be sooner rather than later. :p

---

P.S. How many of you will actually use WMA Pro? I don't think I know a single person with a receiver that supports it, but I do know that some of the newer Pioneer receivers (among others I presume) do support it.

Reopening due to popular demand. That said, this thread is about DTS output being added to the XBOX 360.

It is NOT a thread about how much you may hate Microsoft
It is NOT a thread about how much you may hate Wal*Mart
It is NOT a thread comparing HD-DVD and BD releases
It is NOT a thread about the PS3

I've rolled the thread back beyond three pages of off-topic posts, member bashing and the other things that generally get a thread closed. I didn't remove them all and I may have removed some posts that were on topic and valid.

Please keep this thread on topic. Don't troll. Don't respond to trolling. Don't insult other members. And, most importantly, don't cut into my beer-drinking time!! :D

Thanks Dr Don...

This thread is/was becoming a joke... ABout 40 pages dedicated to bitching...

Hey it's the 7th in Australia!... Where is update! :)

Please do send resumes my way!!! I would love to have a team of such dedicated individuals.

Now jokes aside, it does not take 7 months of testing, nor does it take a week. It is almost done a few more days do go trough the final release steps.

It should be released around 5/7 - 5/11.
I hope dearly this is true. My patiences is running extremely thin.

P.S. How many of you will actually use WMA Pro? I don't think I know a single person with a receiver that supports it, but I do know that some of the newer Pioneer receivers (among others I presume) do support it.


I've got an older Pioneer model, I think the generation right before adding WMA to it.. VSX-D812K. I've not noticed anyone but Pioneer supporting it...

I wish I could find an affordable (<400$) receiver with:
-HDMI input, with video passthru (up to 1080p, and hopefully with pass thru of any rez (i.e. PC rezes from DVI to HDMI))
-5.1 to 7.1 upmix on all sources (SPDIF or HDMI, internally decoded or LPCM)
-at least 110W/channel
-DD/DTS decoding with their varioues EX/ES extensions
-WMA Pro decoding for teh 360!
-time alignment

What does "rolling update" mean?

P.S. How many of you will actually use WMA Pro? I don't think I know a single person with a receiver that supports it, but I do know that some of the newer Pioneer receivers (among others I presume) do support it.

I have three Pioneer receivers that support WMA Pro. :) I use WMA Pro regularly with my HTPC for music playback. If I am interpreting Amir's comments this should provide the best quality playback short of HDMI 1.3 or analog out which the 360 doesn't support. I have no interest in upgrading an expensive Elite receiver to get HDMI so I will live with the WMA Pro or possibly buy a standalone player that supports analog 7.1 someday.

Sorry should have been more clear, a Rolling Update means it will start on <insert Date Here> and will roll out to so many xboxs at one time, The updates might start tomorrow, but for some reason you won't get a download notification until Tuesday

This is done to manage Bandwidth on MS end. Having everyone turn on there xbox trying to Download the upate may cause broken links, and perhaps Broken Xboxs.

Thats why MS states the Spring update will take place the week starting May 7th.

I have three Pioneer receivers that support WMA Pro. :) I use WMA Pro regularly with my HTPC for music playback. If I am interpreting Amir's comments this should provide the best quality playback short of HDMI 1.3 or analog out which the 360 doesn't support. I have no interest in upgrading an expensive Elite receiver to get HDMI so I will live with the WMA Pro or possibly buy a standalone player that supports analog 7.1 someday.

Which models do you have? I used to use the analog inputs (6.1 or 7.1, I forget) from my PC for DVD playback but not anymore (the PC is no longer the central hub of my HT).

Has anyone received the spring update yet?

Has anyone received the spring update yet?

No specific date was given, just that it would be release early in the week of the 7th.

I think they'll release it tonight at 2:00AM PST.

To clarify:

Beginning the week of May 7, 2007 (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/news/2007/0408-im.htm), the Xbox 360 Spring Update will provide Xbox 360 owners worldwide with access to Windows Live Messenger features, broadening the communication options on the Xbox LIVE social network.

Similarly, Ghent states that the Xbox 360 HD DVD update is May 7 - May 11 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10443745&&#post10443745).

Hopefully there won't be (m)any bad flashes...


I have three Pioneer receivers that support WMA Pro. :) I use WMA Pro regularly with my HTPC for music playback. If I am interpreting Amir's comments this should provide the best quality playback short of HDMI 1.3 or analog out which the 360 doesn't support. I have no interest in upgrading an expensive Elite receiver to get HDMI so I will live with the WMA Pro or possibly buy a standalone player that supports analog 7.1 someday.
Yeah, I hear ya. I had to buy a new receiver just to get DTS way back when. My previous receiver only supported DD.

I think I'll stick with 640 Kbps DD or 1.5 Mbps DTS for now. Maybe I'll get an HDMI receiver in 2-3 years. Perhaps all the handshaking issues will be gone by then, as will the HDMI 1.3 growing pains, etc.

To clarify:

Beginning the week of May 7, 2007 (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/news/2007/0408-im.htm), the Xbox 360 Spring Update will provide Xbox 360 owners worldwide with access to Windows Live Messenger features, broadening the communication options on the Xbox LIVE social network.

Similarly, Ghent states that the update for the 360 HD DVD is May 7 - May 11 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10443745&&#post10443745).

Hopefully there won't be (m)any bad flashes...



Yeah, I hear ya. I had to buy a new receiver just to get DTS way back when. My previous receiver only supported DD.

I think I'll stick with 640 Kbps DD or 1.5 Mbps DTS for now. Maybe I'll get an HDMI receiver in 2-3 years. Perhaps all the handshaking issues will be gone by then, as will the HDMI 1.3 growing pains, etc.


Bug, I agree wtih the general assumption that any day this week, it could come. However, when you look at the article in your first link, there is heabvy implication that it will come today (Mon, May 7th). to wit: the words

Redmond , Washington —Your Xbox LIVE® friends list is about to get a whole lot bigger. Microsoft Corp. today announced the launch of Windows LIVE™ Messenger on Xbox 360™


&

The Spring Update is free beginning the week of May 7 and will be easily accessible to every Xbox 360 owner through Xbox LIVE or on Xbox.com.



Now my interpratation is that they mean right now, as in beginning right now (as this the week of May 7th). Actually, now that I think about it, both of those MS statements could use clarifying commas!

Bug, I agree wtih the general assumption that any day this week, it could come. However, when you look at the article in your first link, there is heabvy implication that it will come today (Mon, May 7th). to wit: the words

&

Now my interpratation is that they mean right now, as in beginning right now (as this the week of May 7th). Actually, now that I think about it, both of those MS statements could use clarifying commas!
You could be right. I'm just not counting on it.

Anyways, the more important of the two updates for me is the HD DVD update. I'm holding off on watching some of my HD DVDs until that update comes out. The synch issues bug me quite a bit, and the audio dynamics issue is annoying too of course.

This weekend hopefully should make for a good HD DVD watching weekend. :)

You could be right. I'm just not counting on it.

Anyways, the more important of the two updates for me is the HD DVD update. I'm holding off on watching some of my HD DVDs until that update comes out. The synch issues bug me quite a bit, and the audio dynamics issue is annoying too of course.

This weekend hopefully should make for a good HD DVD watching weekend. :)


I hope the update fixes the VGA issues

You could be right. I'm just not counting on it.

Anyways, the more important of the two updates for me is the HD DVD update. I'm holding off on watching some of my HD DVDs until that update comes out. The synch issues bug me quite a bit, and the audio dynamics issue is annoying too of course.

This weekend hopefully should make for a good HD DVD watching weekend. :)

I agree, Bug. With the recent non-playability of some titles on the Add-on I think the HD-DVD update is of paramount importance.

I hope the update fixes the VGA issues

I think the dashboard update is going to address this.

I think the dashboard update is going to address this.


what VGA issue you guys talking about? I thought that one was fixed months ago?

also NICE screenname character_zero

anticipating the nightmode fix ... fingers crossed

Has anyone dl'd the new updates? Any feedback?

what VGA issue you guys talking about? I thought that one was fixed months ago?

also NICE screenname character_zero

anticipating the nightmode fix ... fingers crossed
There are many people with bland colors/poor black levels via vga. I hope this issue is fixed. My 360/vga looks real bad.

I think it has to do with the type of VGA signal being sent to the TV. It sends a PC signal which doesn't allow for color adjusting. I just hope it looks a little better. I think the VGA fix is in the dashboard update which is separate from the HDDVD "nightmode" update.

I just purchased my first 360 (Elite) a week ago and don't know how the updates come in. When I turn on my unit will it automatically tell me the update is available, or do I have to log on somewhere to find it?

IGN is claiming the Dashboard Update (not HD DVD update) is delayed until June 6 (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/786/786002p1.html).

IGN is claiming the Dashboard Update is delayed until June 6 (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/786/786002p1.html).

Those are all features from last year's Spring update. :confused:

Those are all features from last year's Spring update. :confused:
Hmmm... Strange. I do note that when I checked yesterday, that list was the same list as on Xbox.com. Perhaps I just found a link to the old update, I dunno, but it seems IGN has grasped onto the same list and posted it.

Major Nelson confirms IGN is wrong (http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2007/05/07/red-vs-blue-by-the-numbers-evil-picture-pack.aspx#100). He still doesn't give a specific date though. For some reason he just says it's before June.

"I can tell you that the Dashboard will be out before June....IGN is incorrect."

I just purchased my first 360 (Elite) a week ago and don't know how the updates come in. When I turn on my unit will it automatically tell me the update is available, or do I have to log on somewhere to find it?

I believe the Elite 360 already has the new spring update loaded.

If you have Xbox Live Gold connected you will be propted that an update is available or needs to be downloaded etc...

I think you can get a free Xbox Live Silver account if all you want/need is updates for the 360 but do not play games online.

The Elite does not have the update pre-loaded. The update is not available yet to the public. If you sign into Xbox Live you can get the update automatically, once it is released. It will also be available on xbox.com to download so it can be installed manually.

I want to punch an MS nerd in the throat so bad it hurts. To me there is no reason to be this overt about it unless you can't get the damn crap to work right and you are stalling for more time. It's either that or some super nerd got made fun of and is just laughing at all of us right now.



On the VGA issue: I have only noticed this problem when watching HD-DVD's, when I watch regular DVD's or play games it seems fine (possibly a little faded but not nearly as bad as when I'm watching HD-DVD)....Perhaps I'll change my mind when the update comes.

I believe the Elite 360 already has the new spring update loaded.
It does not.


I want to punch an MS nerd in the throat so bad it hurts. To me there is no reason to be this overt about it unless you can't get the damn crap to work right and you are stalling for more time. It's either that or some super nerd got made fun of and is just laughing at all of us right now.
Please spare us your vitriol.

Interesting on the Elite, I was lead to believe it already had the update, thanks for the clarification though. We will all have it soon enough though.

I want to punch an MS nerd in the throat so bad it hurts. To me there is no reason to be this overt about it unless you can't get the damn crap to work right and you are stalling for more time. It's either that or some super nerd got made fun of and is just laughing at all of us right now.Of course, we're all laughing at you. We've had a great time here sitting around Amir's PC and laughing at all the dweebs complaining about bad audio, while enjoying a couple of beers and having team movie nights.

Geez.
We would really rather have a perfect player. Due to technical limitations it might never be "perfect", but it'll be as good as we can make it. Our team has worked many weekends and long days to get these fixes in so you can get a good player. You're welcome.

Of course, we're all laughing at you. We've had a great time here sitting around Amir's PC and laughing at all the dweebs complaining about bad audio, while enjoying a couple of beers and having team movie nights..


(waits for the "I KNEW IT!" posts :D )

I wanted to share this, since the topic of the thread somewhat diverted.

AVS forum members were instrumental in poitnint the two audio issues to us. If it was not for you guys we would probably never have found and fixed these.

Unfortunately we could not release an update for these issues in isolation, which would have happend much quickly. Our appologies for the long delay.

At the end of the day it is you, the enthusiast community, who helped make this product better. Big thank you again.

_________________
Mailroom clerk

I heart MS :)

ok so does that mean the audio fix is expected soon as in 1-14 days or are we just still Days away :rolleyes:

I heart MS :)

I <3 the R&D (codecs, IDEs, new fancy techs) and Xbox/Entertainment divisions of MS.. :)

I wanted to share this, since the topic of the thread somewhat diverted.

AVS forum members were instrumental in poitnint the two audio issues to us. If it was not for you guys we would probably never have found and fixed these.

Thanks for acknowledging what the ones with common sense already know, that if it wasn't for our "bitching", MS never would have "pinpointed" the audio issues.

Of course, we're all laughing at you. We've had a great time here sitting around Amir's PC and laughing at all the dweebs complaining about bad audio, while enjoying a couple of beers and having team movie nights.

Geez.
We would really rather have a perfect player. Due to technical limitations it might never be "perfect", but it'll be as good as we can make it. Our team has worked many weekends and long days to get these fixes in so you can get a good player. You're welcome.

Thank you [MS] for misleading us about when the fix would be coming, I'm sure we all appreciate it :rolleyes:

Well the spring update is happening (tenatively) with in the next 12 hours. So I guess the audio update will be released in the fall dash update.

But seriously of all the problems they could have had, they left it in 'Night Mode'.
That is pathetic.(the response wasn't good either.

I wanted to share this, since the topic of the thread somewhat diverted.

AVS forum members were instrumental in poitnint the two audio issues to us. If it was not for you guys we would probably never have found and fixed these.

Unfortunately we could not release an update for these issues in isolation, which would have happend much quickly. Our appologies for the long delay.

At the end of the day it is you, the enthusiast community, who helped make this product better. Big thank you again.

_________________
Mailroom clerkAgreed here. We use AVSForum as an acid test too. If there's anything bad that someone could say about a product, you guys will find it :D

Seriously though, we do appreciate feedback, because it helps us make our products better.

Thank you [MS] for misleading us about when the fix would be coming, I'm sure we all appreciate it :rolleyes:I don't think MS has ever announced a date for the fix, so how could we mislead you about it? Sure, Amir said something about "weeks, not months" earlier this year, which was premature, but there was never anything official, and you should take anything said by a MS employee (yes, me too :)) that isn't an official MS statement with a pinch of salt. We try to do right by you, but we're just as fallible as the next guy, and even people in Amir's position don't control all the variables.

Well the spring update is happening (tenatively) with in the next 12 hours. So I guess the audio update will be released in the fall dash update.

But seriously of all the problems they could have had, they left it in 'Night Mode'.
That is pathetic.(the response wasn't good either.Not following along, are we? The Audio update is not included in the spring flash update, it's in the HD DVD player update, which is rolling out independently. Barring catastrophe, it'll be here soon.

Thank you [MS] for misleading us about when the fix would be coming, I'm sure we all appreciate it :rolleyes:

It was not intentional. Even my guestimate may prove to be wrong. At this point we have given you so much false hope that providing another date is meaningless.

_______________________
/me goes back to sorting mail

Ghent, bkilian......guys you're just wasting your time...I hate it too, but these guys are just happier beleiving that MS lied, cheated and stole from them. I still say they're getting more than $200 in value AND performance from the add on, and that it will over-deliver in a BIG way when the fixes are in. But that's just me (and you). Some of us genuinely appreciate your efforts and see the value of what you have brought to market.

And some of us with no more expertise than a normal range of hearing and 30 seconds of time listening to an HD DVD can catch a huge audio issue you "insiders" totally missed. Not to mention the misleading statements about a time frame fix.

Seriously, you guy's should take the advice everyone else here has given us complainers/CUSTOMERS who pay your bills and close your mouths unless you have proven FACTS to give us. Your acting as immature as the rest here with the banter and back talk. Very professional indeed. Seriously.

Careful guys, it would be nice if we can keep this thread open atleast to the patch arrives. It's already been closed once. Just think, DTS may only be a few more sleeps away. Then we can take out all our frustration out on our neighbors who will be banging on our front doors complaining that they hear bombs going off in our living rooms. :)

Whoops... It seems we should not expect the HD DVD update this week... probably because of bandwidth issues.

So, no HD DVD movie watching day for me this weekend unfortunately. :( A little disappointing, but I think we'll live. ;)

Here's hoping for next week.

Whoops... It seems we should not expect the HD DVD update this week... probably because of bandwidth issues.

So, no HD DVD movie watching day for me this weekend unfortunately. :( A little disappointing, but I think we'll live. ;)

Here's hoping for next week.



How do you know the update will not be available this week? Is this definite? Has anyone received the spring dashboard update yet?

How do you know the update will not be available this week?
A little bird told me...

Is this definite?
As this thread has taught us... Nothing's ever definite. ;)

Has anyone received the spring dashboard update yet?
Major Nelson says (http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2007/05/07/may-07-update-news-7-7.aspx):

"I just heard from the Dashboard team that we'll have to wait at least another day for the Dashboard update to be released. The update is not being released in the next 24-hours. That is all I know at this time, but I’ll get more information tomorrow afternoon (PT) and I will update this post as needed. Thanks for your patience and understanding."

I apologize about wanting to punch an MS nerd in the neck. I don't want to punch anyone in the neck much less a beer drinking MS nerd. I am just tired of the overt talk, again if these guys would just say "here's the issue with why it's taking so long:>"

I guess it's not really any of my business...I'm just a paying customer. I don't care about target dates...just don't give me the "We're close", "Soon", "Weeks, Not Months" standbys...you either know what's going on or you just want others to think that you are "in the know" either way it's pretty irratating and getting old.


Thanks for all of your supposed hard work...I hope we can all thank you in the very near future.

New post from the Major. We can't have the update, but we can download videos about it:

Video: Xbox 360 Spring Update part 1 & 2
Nope…this is not the spring update yet, but rather two videos that show you some of the features of the update that is coming this week.

Name: Xbox 360 Spring Update Video part 1
Price: Free
Availability: All Xbox Live regions
Dash Details: Learn about Xbox 360's exciting new features from the people who made it happen.

Name: Xbox 360 Spring Update Video part 2
Price: Free
Availability: All Xbox Live regions
Dash Details: Learn about Xbox 360's exciting new features from the people who made it happen.

does anybody else have trouble with watching movies on dvd with fullrate dts tracks?
my 360 doesnt like it at all, the sound is all "jerky" like its missing some of the information.
lower bitrate dts if fine.
I really hope this is something that gets fixed with this update and not just something wrong with my 360, becasue if it is my 360 I might not get 1,5 mbps dts from my hd-dvd without this jerky audio...

haha, still waiting the update (and want to try with Planet earth). the xbox gave me 3 red rings. Crazy

New post from the Major. We can't have the update, but we can download videos about it:


::sigh::

New post from the Major. We can't have the update, but we can download videos about it:

Here what you could have won.....cheers Bully ! :)

I would like to thank the MS team for working on bettering a great product, that has been an excellent value IMHO. Many companies rush products out that have problems, but their solution is to make a replacement product that costs as much if not more.

I'm also extremely impressed that we've been informed that something is being done to fix known issues. This is better than MS being silent or not even acknowledging the problems - again, which is how many other companies handle similar issues.

The way I look at it, I get the benefit of bleeding edge technology at minimal cost and the knowledge that improvements continue to be made. Anyway, I'm not trying to divert the purpose of this thread, I just want to make sure that the MS team hears from those of us who are thankful for the work they are doing.

Keep up the good work MS!

Again, that's irrelevant. Nobody to my knowledge is saying they're not appreciative that MS is fixing the issues. However, that does not change the fact that:

(1) MS testers are potentially deaf???
(2) MS denied the audio issues until too many people complained that they could no longer ignore the issues;
(3) MS representatives claimed that the fixes would be coming "soon" or in "weeks not months" when they knew that MS policy was to issue fixes on regular update schedules and that wasn't going to happen until Spring 2007;
(4) MS representatives insult our intelligence by posting condescending childish drivel over legitimate issues.
(5) MS refuses to give us some date that they will stick to.

Bottom line: The product we got is broken and MS has a responsibility to fix it and they have a responsibility to not mislead us on the date of such fix.

I concur with the OilerFan. I've cobbled together my Xbox/HD DVD system out of bits and pieces picked up off fleaBay, most of it for a very low price....the 360 console only set me back $140. Yet if this audio update happens - and the add-on never promised DTS audio out - I'll have a killer HD DVD player with 1080i output (maximum resolution my Samsung CRT can accept) and DTS audio out (the best multichannel sound my Sony AV receiver can handle)...what more could I ask?

That should hold me for a couple of years while I wait for the situation with HDMI 1.3 to resolve itself and for flat-screen monitor prices to stabilize (i.e. drop)....

:D

I have no beef with MS whatsoever, they are offering tremendous value compared to the competition (you know who you are).... ;)

Just my $0.02....

Indeed. The only reason I'm in HD now is because I got my Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on for US$175 (CAD$199.99), including the movie and remote. Bargoon!

I did get the Toshiba HD-A1 later for cheap as well, but returned it immediately, because it had its own issues, including also having audio synchronization issues like the 360 HD DVD currently. The Toshiba HD-A1 didn't suffer from the audio dynamics issue though. DD+ --> DTS on the Toshiba sounds glorious. Along with the other fixes (sync and disc issues), that's what I'm hoping for with the HD DVD update... next week.


haha, still waiting the update (and want to try with Planet earth). the xbox gave me 3 red rings. Crazy
:(

It's of note though that Planet Earth plays fine without the update, as far as I can tell. I've only watched the first episode, but there were no issues.

There was one person who had problems, but I believe he didn't have the original HD DVD update installed.


Again, that's irrelevant. Nobody to my knowledge is saying they're not appreciative that MS is fixing the issues.
There have been some, but that's in the past now.

reopened

remember challenge the info in a post: not the poster

has anyone gotten any satisfaction from MS Customer service.

I took alook at the HDDVD addon packaging and theres a DTS logo on the box. To me, the false advertising alone should be worth something. I haven't called MS on this topic because I have been waiting as patiently as possible but I am thinking a harassing phone call to MS might get some kind of refund .ie free game , free points, free accessories.

anyone already try ?

has anyone gotten any satisfaction from MS Customer service.

I took alook at the HDDVD addon packaging and theres a DTS logo on the box. To me, the false advertising alone should be worth something. I haven't called MS on this topic because I have been waiting as patiently as possible but I am thinking a harassing phone call to MS might get some kind of refund .ie free game , free points, free accessories.

anyone already try ?

Well its not exactly false advertising cause it can decode DTS, but let me know if you get anything for free from complaining. I love free stuff.

to me, its much more important for a consumer to be able to output DTS over decoding it. correct me if I am wrong on that statment.

I don't normally complain to companies about products, but my frustration(along with others) is so high regarding this issue. that I think I need to vent.

As far as just selling the Addon, and buying a standalone. its something I would love to do, but can't shell out the extra money right now.

If it doesn't come out buy fall I will for sure be getting a standalone. But selling the addon doesn't do any justice because MS already got there money :mad:

Thinking this thread was closed, I started a new thread about the update (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=844868). I'll still keep it updated if people are participating in it. Maybe we can get away from the negativity that has caused this thread to get shut down several times.

you know maybe a new thread will help

we have received a lot of reports on this thread and closed it more than once: I hope the new thread will do better

If we have more reports, we may have to take stronger action

Closed: please post to new thread about the update (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=844868)

and please take the high road in every post