So I'm at the point where I want to roll my own AMX or Crestron system install. Initially I'm going to do this with used, somewhat older equipment (likely black and white LCDs, or maybe older color ones) as I'm a poor college student, but in a year or two I'll likely upgrade equipment to new-ish items.

Now, I know both systems are designed to be installed by a dealer, however, going that route isn't an option. From what I've seen thus far, it looks like Crestron does their best to hinder the do-it-yourselfer, whereas AMX tolerates the do-it-yourselfer, though (for obvious reasons) doesn't advertise that option. Is that a correct statement, as if so, it will likely push me into the AMX camp. I'm not opposed to having to do things myself (in fact, I'm expecting to have to do a lot of research and trial and error to figure this out) but if System A requires a $12,000 compiler with a dongle to do anything, well, System A isn't an option then.

My initial system will be relatively simple, just controlling one home theater. Ultimately though, I plan on expanding it, to at least include video/audio routing, and very possibly lighting and HVAC controls. I realize that to scale it that much will likely require a near-complete re-write of any code I have, but I want to at least be able to re-use as much hardware as possible.

First off, what software package do I need from AMX? There's a good 25 packages available for download on their website, and I have no clue which one does what I need.

Alternatively, is my view of Crestron wrong? Is there a way to get their development tools?

What are some good resources to start out with, for either system?

What about a basic hardware setup. What's the cheapest I can get in with a handfull of IR blasters and a few RS-232 controllers, along with a basic touchscreen? (Used stuff, obviously) that still can be integrated with newer, hopefully current-generation equipment, and what models/lines work together?

Also, in terms of my skills, I can program in Java, and have very basic C and VB skills.

Thanks!

This might be a highly ignorant question, but fortunately I have no pride :)

Is getting certified/taking AMX classes an option for you? It might save gazillions of hours and heartache as you'd basically be beating your head against the wall for something you could just get trained up on how to do.

I'm assuming getting certified/trained isn't an option for financial reasons. If it can be done for almost nothing, I'd be up for it, but I'm assuming it is a multiple-thousand dollar endevor

it looks like Crestron does their best to hinder the do-it-yourselfer

I can confirm this 100%...in 2000 I spent about $12k cdn on Crestron product after being told by my uninformed dealer I could program it myself and Crestron would provide support.

WRONG..I did get the software and spent a few months screwing around, communication with Crestron always started with "Have you taken our training courses" and ended with "Sorry but we cannot provide support unless you have taken the courses"

I guess I can't blame Crestron and should have researched better about their support..my dealer was more to blame at the time and was in the process of having one of their guys certified and I guess they also thought Crestron would be more helpful but I assure you they are not unless you fly to Creskill and take the courses...so plain and simple my over anxious(sales hungry) dealer was responsible for making the sale thinking Crestron would let me program it myself and provide support :-)

I am far from computer illiterate and even using the Crestron SIMPL software and Visiontools or whatever it was at the time I ran into many problems..problems that could not be resolved by searching google or anything similar, I needed help directly from Crestron and couldn't get it so after about 6 months I boxed it all back up and returned it to the dealer and got exactly what I paid for it.

I am now using CQC and building my own Crestron on the cheap and know I can at least get some support when I get stuck, don't get me wrong Crestron has a good product but if you are hoping to roll your own system by research and trial and error I think you'll be wasting alot of time that could be put to better use with a stable DIY product...good luck.

And AMX is no different than Crestron in this regard. The AMX development tools are not available to the general public, dealers only.

eric,

Are you doing this because you have an interest in getting into the industry? Just curious as it's a bit unusual for a college student to be messing with this stuff otherwise.

And AMX is no different than Crestron in this regard. The AMX development tools are not available to the general public, dealers only.

Is this accurate? I was under the impression that anyone could register to get the software/they didn't verify dealer status or similar

As to why, a few reasons. There's a small chance I'd end up in A/V work, but that's not really the reason. Short answer is I like playing with this sort of stuff/figuring things out myself, and do things myself. Latest thing I conqured is I now know how to program/install Hirsch Access-Control systems. Don't be surprised if my house ends up with prox reeders on the doors :-)

As a general rule, I refuse to pay for services like this. Also, buying all the hardware new and paying someone to do it would be more than I could afford, and even if I could afford it, I'm always changing what A/V equipment I own so I would constantly have to pay for changes.

Is this accurate? I was under the impression that anyone could register to get the software/they didn't verify dealer status or similar
Give it a try. I am not sure.

As a general rule, I refuse to pay for services like this. Also, buying all the hardware new and paying someone to do it would be more than I could afford, and even if I could afford it, I'm always changing what A/V equipment I own so I would constantly have to pay for changes.

I mean no disrespect, but if you're such a DIY'er, why in gods name would you go with a company who isn't at least DIY-friendly? If I'm AMX or Crestron, and have the reputation of being rock-solid, I would do everything in my power to prevent untrained folks from getting their grubby little hands on my stuff. It would be too threatening to the brand image, which is what allows me to charge a premium for my products.

In my entirely personal opinion and I could be wrong, I see no happy ending to this story.

I mean no disrespect, but if you're such a DIY'er, why in gods name would you go with a company who isn't at least DIY-friendly?
Maybe for the same reason I enjoy playing around with enterprise software that isn't "DIY friendly". I think you guys are misreading him. He knows these two brands are the best of the best and wants to see if he can get his feet wet with one of them. Maybe he'll decide to play with CQC too but I think you're missing what he's going after here. Of course I could be reading him wrong.

Well, I had assumed he was looking to build a HomeAutomation/HomeTheaterAutomation system he could rely on. Are you relying on that enterprise software to perform useful functions, or is it an education?

I never mentioned CQC - only that he's looking to DIY a solution that isn't meant to be DIY'ed. Without the proper training, any solution can be mangled, even the mighty AMX/crestron. From what I understand, the proper training is only available via those courses or to certified trained folks (ie, no webexes, chat rooms, documentation, targeted towards learning AMX/Crestron).

It's that mechanism to learn how to setup your system in a succesful fashion that I think is important. But if it's just education, and taking a long time to setup a system that may have a little instability or unreliability because he wasn't shown how to do it isn't an issue, then sure, that's a totally fine path.

I also looked at the DIY Crestron route before going with CQC since I wanted the option to change things. There was apparent advantages to hardware designed from the outset as a control system. My local dealer was quite upfront with me that he could sell me any Crestron hardware I wanted but no software and no support. I spent a fair amount of time reviewing what was publicly available from Crestron and the internet and concluded that while it might be possible with assistance a non-software guy like me had a snowballs chance of getting it going otherwise.

If more free time was available the classes would have been an option and might have been turned into a nice small scale side business picking up overflow from a couple local shops but since I can't keep up with my day job as it is that was out. More searching turned up CQC as a PC based system aimed at that end of the market and has done everything I've needed with rock solid stability. Best effort tech support has been fine though I'm surprised I didn't send Dean over the edge as I struggled through a driver. :D

So if Eric tries it I wish him luck. A more software savy person might be able to fill in the blanks that were impossible for me.

DIY is possible with Crestron (I'm in the process of doing it). However, it takes a lot of patience, some programming skill, some installation skill, and a dealer connection. I've spent about 6 months learning and am finally about to upload my first program to the processor... I have a minor in computer science (major is in engineering) and have been programming in various languages since I was a kid. It was still somewhat of a stretch for me to do it without any training. Albeit, most of it was just figuring out how things actually worked together rather than the programming itself.

CJ

My experience w/ AMX software is that even after taking an "informational" intro class and completing a number of the online training modules, I was unable to gain access to the programming tools required to upload a prebuilt module provided to me by a vendor that is an AMX partner. I had to contact an AMX dealer to get the module loaded.

There is a AMX user group and forum at http://www.amxforums.com/ I have found that the bulk of the real handy bits are still only available to authorized members. There is also a Crestron user group on Yahoo that has no such requirement. Crestron software does come with a EULA that retsricts use to authorized dealers however.

jcmitch

Well, as much as AMX and Crestron try and keep people out of their systems, from what I've seen, they are the best, which is why I wanted to go that route. There's other, more-open solutions, but they're not as flexible, or even good.

It's been a while since I looked at CQC, but I don't recall being that impressed with it. Is there even a provision for multiple/remote touchscreens?

If it's been a while, then MUCH has changed. CQC is a very viable option now in this space. It's a fully networked product, so you can have various types of clients, either kiosk style touch screens or regular computers or handheld devices.

It's been a while since I looked at CQC, but I don't recall being that impressed with it. Is there even a provision for multiple/remote touchscreens?

A true client/server network-distributed architecture is absolutely in CQC, and it frankly owns the space (for DIY solutions) there and is very lonely b/c there's no real competition.

I use 2 3400 touchscreen tablet PCs, and my cellphone PDA with it to control my whole house.

Check the site in my sig for details.

Well, as much as AMX and Crestron try and keep people out of their systems, from what I've seen, they are the best, which is why I wanted to go that route. There's other, more-open solutions, but they're not as flexible, or even good.

It's been a while since I looked at CQC, but I don't recall being that impressed with it. Is there even a provision for multiple/remote touchscreens?

Not sure when you last looked. I've been with CQC since must be v1.2 or thereabouts and it was networked distributed even then. In short able to support as many screens as you wanted to connect. If there's a limit on clients I've never heard of it.

I won't tell you CQC is better then Crestron. If nothing else the lack of boatloads of custom hardware designed just for it prevents it. I do, however, suspect that it's Dean's objective to be as good if not better. You might want to take another look. More hardware that will work with CQC is becoming available all the time and the software just keeps getting better. To just say that CQC is stable is an understatement. If nothing else I can say that CQC won't be as hard as cracking the Crestron secret code.

OK, a few questions/musings about CQC then:

1. While it's client/server based, what provision is there for multiple clients without multiple PCs. My thinking was to ultimately end up with touchscreens in most rooms, but I don't really want to need 10 computers to drive 10 touchscreens. Possibly the Viewsonic AirPanel + a Windows 2003 server with Terminal Services could be an option, but it seems rather a hack-ish manner.

2. Is there any custom display/input hardware, or just standard PC displays/touchscreens? Any provision for remotes of some type, preferably two-way?

3. How can the cost be justified? I know automation is expensive, but I was hoping to pick up some basic AMX/crestron gear (used) for perhaps $500 total. While I've got computers lying around, buying a touchscreen of some type along with some of the other supporting hardware still makes the CQC option go up in price quickly, especially with a $500 (or $900) price for the software. Not to mention the need for a Windows Server 2003 license and Terminal Service CALS (unless there's a better way to do remote displays) - to be quite frank, it seems like installing CQC could quickly end up costing more than even paying someone to do an AMX or Crestron install.

I'll take a stab at a couple of those until someone else steps up to the plate (I know a lot more about Crestron than I do about CQC).

1. You only need one PC to drive as many touchscreens as you want.

2. Re: price it's all relative. Coming from a Crestron and AMX background I'm finding great humor in seeing people complain about the cost of Dean's software (i.e. it's pretty much a drop in the pan in the world of automation).

3. I do think you bring up a good point re: cost which is that Dean's product is not as cheap as many of his adherents make it out to be INSOFAR as the comparison is often not apples to apples. First they are doing all the labor themselves so they are not counting that. Secondly, they are usually using much less expensive equipment on the hardware side, or using closeout tablet PC's or whatever. Someone could also use close out tablet PC's with Crestron, as well as PC's for touchscreen emulation from a browser. That clarification having been added, I still think his system in a bargain in the world of software.

4.. You don't need Windows server.

I'll take a stab at a couple of those until someone else steps up to the plate (I know a lot more about Crestron than I do about CQC).

1. You only need one PC to drive as many touchscreens as you want.

How do I drive the remote displays? Just really long DVI cables? Is there a limit on DVI cable length? Any kind of DVI Repeater


4.. You don't need Windows server.

Well, i realize one doesn't have to do it with a Windows server, but my thinking was using Viewsonic Airpanels as remote displays. Those connect via Remote Desktop, so I would need to have a remote desktop connection for each client - XP Pro can only accept one connection, that's why I was saying the server version of Windows.

It depends on remote display. Since CQC supports a number of different types it could be wired or wireless Ethernet, USB etc.

I'd Not use Remote Desktop but I'll let some more involved CQC users tackle that.

erikotz,
With MainLobby, there are a lot of hardware options:
1) Use a traditional desktop PC. I use this option a lot since I am in front of my PC a lot of the day so just click on MainLobby Client and dim the lights, change the song, whatever.

2) Use a UMPC / TabletPC handheld wireless tablet (new or used). You don't have to redo your scenes for a smaller device, but you might want to since the small devices have different UI needs (bigger buttons, more scenes, more slideouts to conserve screen real estate)

3) Use an in wall touchscreen - "dumb screen": attached either VGA cable, VGA to cat5 baluns (popular) to either a single PC VGA video port, or to a multihead video card to support multiple touchscreens from one PC (popular), "smart screen": this is a self contained PanelPC that connects to the PC LAN, "UTMA": this is somewhere between a dumb and a smart - touchscreen has a special networking box that does "Windows over IP". The central PC can serve about 10 touchscreens and runs special windows over IP software. (works well, but limited choices). "Rad I/O": mini slightly more tha a single gang box sized touchscreens that are driven via a proprietary graphics card that handles eight displays.

4) PocketPC - wireless. Small devices (includes a few cell phones), but ok for specific goals like music selection.

5) Big screen - the "10 foot interface". Run MainLobby on your big screen. select movies with your TV remote control or wireless PC mouse (like Gyration). Show your theater attendees your movie collection and jointly decide which to watch.

6) Airpanel type RDP solutions - cheap low powered devices displaying MainLobby running on a central PC. Popular solution.

7) Keypads - as MainLobby supports many brands of keypads (Russound/ ELK / HAI / Elan, etc), click a button on the keypad to send MainLobby Server a message to "do something"

8) MainLobby does not support it, but Homeseer and HAL do - voice interface. Speak into the microphone or telephone and the system will respond. MainLobby intergrates with both products.

9) Handheld IR remote - learn an unused button on a smart remote in MainLobby software and then when you click that button, MainLobby Server can "do something" that you want it to do.

10) I am sure this list can be twice as long as it is now with other means. And, without doing a lot of thought on it, CQC likely supports all of the above as well.

You can use RDP. It's not as quite good as a standalone client, but it's commonly used. You can use Windows Server as the back end and use however many RDP clients your license supports. Other options are UMPC wireless tablets, which are good for the theater. There is also the Rad-IO system from www.touchtronix.com for a small per-room LCD touch screen driven off a very small PC. There are also some in-wall touch screen clients.

You can also do a scenario where you use a couple very small PCs in the closet to drive standard touch screens via Cat-5 based extenders (to keep a centralized scenario and just have the touch screen at the location. That can be $250 Lilliput touch screens up to whatever you want to use such 15" displays for around $600 new, which provides plenty of screen estate. And of course the server's output itself can be used to drive of these, often with a KVM switch in the closet to switch over to a small local display for local maintenance.

[EDIT: Oops, we posted at the same. But yeh, except for the voice recognition stuff, the list for CQC would be the same, and would likely be the same for any software based system.]

Friendly bit of advice, if you have no experience with either Crestron or AMX you are asking for HUGE headache. I program both systems and let me tell you that what kills you is whats not printed on their manuals. All the little hardware and software quirks will kill you if you are trying to program a system from scratch with no prior experience on them. I have many ocassions where the "fix" that either Crestron or AMX tech support gave me was completely worthless and I basically had to hunker down and figure out workarounds by myself.

3. How can the cost be justified? I know automation is expensive, but I was hoping to pick up some basic AMX/crestron gear (used) for perhaps $500 total.

I don't think this is very realistic. I think you'll find that even used, the price will be much higher.

I don't think this is very realistic. I think you'll find that even used, the price will be much higher.


lol no kidding, the only thing you can get for $500 is an IR learner.

Hey there,

I am a Crestron programmer and would have to agree 100% with AMXCrestronBeast! Programming these processors is not something you can just pick up overnight. It requires formal training and a lot (and I mean a lot!) of practice.

If you are desperate to persue this though I would recommend AMX for you, as you already have basic skills in Java and C.

AMX code and Crestron code are completely different!

AMX code is much like C and C+ language using written code. This would be better for you if you already know Java and C. But you will still have to practice a lot! If you cant afford the training courses which I would strongly recommend then trial and error is the only way and I can garantee there will be a lot of error along the way.

Crestron SIMPL (Symbol Intensive Master Programming Language) Windows however uses pre-made logic symbols (OR's, AND's, ExOR's, Buffers) with a drag and drop system to write code.

I am very Crestron biased as I program them and really like the product. But I can understand why a lot of people prefer AMX. I think its true to say that AMX is more versitile.

With Crestron programming you are limited to what you can do by the logic symbols provided in the software. For situations where you find that you need to do something that no logic symbol can, Crestron has an extra piece of software called SIMPL+ which is just like C and C+ so you can write your own code and add it to the programme to do something.

With AMX you totally write your own code so there is no limit

So which side are you going to take? AMX or Crestron?

Either way, its going to be a long and stressful process. But with a lot of persistance you will get there eventually.

Hope all goes well.

Damien

Hey there,

I am a Crestron programmer and would have to agree 100% with AMXCrestronBeast! Programming these processors is not something you can just pick up overnight. It requires formal training and a lot (and I mean a lot!) of practice.

If you are desperate to persue this though I would recommend AMX for you, as you already have basic skills in Java and C.

AMX code and Crestron code are completely different!

AMX code is much like C and C+ language using written code. This would be better for you if you already know Java and C. But you will still have to practice a lot! If you cant afford the training courses which I would strongly recommend then trial and error is the only way and I can garantee there will be a lot of error along the way.

Crestron SIMPL (Symbol Intensive Master Programming Language) Windows however uses pre-made logic symbols (OR's, AND's, ExOR's, Buffers) with a drag and drop system to write code.

I am very Crestron biased as I program them and really like the product. But I can understand why a lot of people prefer AMX. I think its true to say that AMX is more versitile.

With Crestron programming you are limited to what you can do by the logic symbols provided in the software. For situations where you find that you need to do something that no logic symbol can, Crestron has an extra piece of software called SIMPL+ which is just like C and C+ so you can write your own code and add it to the programme to do something.

With AMX you totally write your own code so there is no limit

So which side are you going to take? AMX or Crestron?

Either way, its going to be a long and stressful process. But with a lot of persistance you will get there eventually.

Hope all goes well.

Damien

I know exactly what you mean, If it weren't for simpl+ modules I wouldn't touch Crestron with a ten foot laser pointer. In some aspects I like that I can drag and drop a few symbols to create quick program logic. On the other hand when you are trying to handle complex logic or many variables in a control scheme it can be a NIGHTMARE.

All in All I am AMX but get along nicely with the Crestron side of the market.

I am a Crestron programmer and would have to agree 100% with AMXCrestronBeast! Programming these processors is not something you can just pick up overnight. It requires formal training and a lot (and I mean a lot!) of practice.

The ability to pick up the programming skills without formal training depends very much on the person who is trying to do it. I picked it up on my own with some help along the way from the Yahoo Crestron group. I've formed relationships with a few dealers, created a software program that significantly extends Crestron's IR driver tool (DEAL) with things like the ability to extract IR commands from a Pronto ccf file, and had a lot of fun along the way. But my background is a Computer Science degree, and almost 15 years of C / C++ / C# software development experience. For me the toughest part is coming up with good looking touchpanel pages (button layouts, color scheme, etc.) - as that's very much an art project.

With Crestron programming you are limited to what you can do by the logic symbols provided in the software. For situations where you find that you need to do something that no logic symbol can, Crestron has an extra piece of software called SIMPL+ which is just like C and C+ so you can write your own code and add it to the programme to do something.

Thanks to SIMPL+, the first part of your statement really isn't true. By using a combination of SIMPL and SIMPL+, I have yet to encounter anything I've wanted to do that couldn't be done.

With AMX you totally write your own code so there is no limit

There are ALWAYS limits no matter what language or platform you pick.

Either way, its going to be a long and stressful process. But with a lot of persistance you will get there eventually.

I would say that's a fair assessment. I definitely wouldn't suggest that someone with no software development experience attempt to program a Crestron or AMX system on their own as it's likely to turn into an expensive failure.

lol no kidding, the only thing you can get for $500 is an IR learner.

If one is willing to use outdated equipment, a reasonably complete Crestron system (ST-CP, some IR emitters, and an old 1 way panel) for controlling a home theater could probably be had for around $500. If you really want to go with Crestron though, a $500 budget for equipment is going to put lots of limitations on what you can actually achieve (no SIMPL+ on older processors, the older panels are pretty slow at changing pages, etc.....).

Hey GSR

Any chance of getting a copy of that software you have created for DEAL?? That could be really handy!

Damien

Hey GSR

Any chance of getting a copy of that software you have created for DEAL?? That could be really handy!

Damien

An evaluation version and contact info can be found here (http://www.homeautomation.geoff-reynolds.net).

The ability to pick up the programming skills without formal training depends very much on the person who is trying to do it. I picked it up on my own with some help along the way from the Yahoo Crestron group. I've formed relationships with a few dealers, created a software program that significantly extends Crestron's IR driver tool (DEAL) with things like the ability to extract IR commands from a Pronto ccf file, and had a lot of fun along the way. But my background is a Computer Science degree, and almost 15 years of C / C++ / C# software development experience. For me the toughest part is coming up with good looking touchpanel pages (button layouts, color scheme, etc.) - as that's very much an art project.



Thanks to SIMPL+, the first part of your statement really isn't true. By using a combination of SIMPL and SIMPL+, I have yet to encounter anything I've wanted to do that couldn't be done.



There are ALWAYS limits no matter what language or platform you pick.



I would say that's a fair assessment. I definitely wouldn't suggest that someone with no software development experience attempt to program a Crestron or AMX system on their own as it's likely to turn into an expensive failure.



while it actually makes Crestron tolerable to program simpl+ has some significant limitations. AMX is a "programmer's control system"

An evaluation version and contact info can be found here (http://www.homeautomation.geoff-reynolds.net).

Oh look, another forum member from good ole Taxachusetts :D

Chip

If one is willing to use outdated equipment, a reasonably complete Crestron system (ST-CP, some IR emitters, and an old 1 way panel) for controlling a home theater could probably be had for around $500. If you really want to go with Crestron though, a $500 budget for equipment is going to put lots of limitations on what you can actually achieve (no SIMPL+ on older processors, the older panels are pretty slow at changing pages, etc.....).


In Fact I have one that I would part with too =) Its brand new old stock, that I've opened nad powered up to show people in the past. I even have the program to program it too =) Its the 1500 monochrome with RF module and 232. So if you are intrested PM me eric.

I would have to agree with teh AMX/Crestron comments. Its a pain, until you get a few panels under your belt its just endless on the issues you can have. I won't tell you its impossible to learn, but I think a trip to teh factory for training is a must even before attempting it as the documentation to figure it out is junk. AMX is actually in the process of improving thier software (yet I havent seen it, and was told last year 90 days and its out!) So hopefully my trip to CES this year will prove useful to get the real deal on it.

Good luck on your quest!
B

In Fact I have one that I would part with too =) Its brand new old stock, that I've opened nad powered up to show people in the past. I even have the program to program it too =) Its the 1500 monochrome with RF module and 232. So if you are intrested PM me eric.

I would have to agree with teh AMX/Crestron comments. Its a pain, until you get a few panels under your belt its just endless on the issues you can have. I won't tell you its impossible to learn, but I think a trip to teh factory for training is a must even before attempting it as the documentation to figure it out is junk. AMX is actually in the process of improving thier software (yet I havent seen it, and was told last year 90 days and its out!) So hopefully my trip to CES this year will prove useful to get the real deal on it.

Good luck on your quest!
B

I prayyyyy they dont go for some hairbrained attempt at a drag n drop GUI.

Crestron does not require a "dongle" however you would need access to the download site for simpl windows (visual basic interface) and VT pro E...and some knowledge of how to complete symbols, etc.
I believe now you also need access to the AMX site; however if you've done enough C++ the structure will look familiar...The new interface GUI is okay (it's kinda like Crestron's "system builder") but will ONLY work with NXI systems and Modero panels
You should be able to find old X-series boxes and LC or ST panels around (DOD auction, state liquidation, surplus house maybe, ebay?)
Mediatech =thats go mediatech com is another choice, as well as a all in one LCD panel onetouch....

I prayyyyy they dont go for some hairbrained attempt at a drag n drop GUI.

Is it the attempt or the result that would be hairbrained? ;)

Cinemar, creator of non hair brained drag and drop gui's :)

I prayyyyy they dont go for some hairbrained attempt at a drag n drop GUI.
First of all it would be praaaaaay :). Second of all, you might want to exit your cave once in a while :). Crestron has had a drag and drop program for about 5 years now, first it was called Appllication Builder and now System Builder (D3 Pro is also drag and drop). Yes, SIMPL is of course much more powerful and still the programmers choice.

AMX was late to the party but now has Visual Architect for drag and drop programming.

This topic is close to my situation.

I've gotten the "scraps" of a high-end Crestron system that the original owner removed from his house before moving. I'm mostly a newbie with home automation, but I just love the technology and have been reading/learning as much as possible.
I am a c++ programmer by trade, and love gadgets.

I've been looking to get up-to-speed before formulating a PC-based system (most likely CQC). I have mostly avoided Crestron and AMX due to the unfriendly DIY support, but it's hard to pass on this hardware. Can anyone go through the components and tell me what they can and cannot do? And what components might be missing? I'm just fascinated by all this unexpected hardware. I'm dying to tinker with the components, but there really isnt a lot of info on this stuff.

Hardware:
CNAMPX-16x60
CNX-PAD8A
Remote STX-1550C w/ RF gateway 2-way
AV2 A/V Control Processor
ReQuest Arq Fusion Pro and Fusion Zone storage modules

Thanks!

This topic is close to my situation.

I've gotten the "scraps" of a high-end Crestron system that the original owner removed from his house before moving. I'm mostly a newbie with home automation, but I just love the technology and have been reading/learning as much as possible.
I am a c++ programmer by trade, and love gadgets.

I've been looking to get up-to-speed before formulating a PC-based system (most likely CQC). I have mostly avoided Crestron and AMX due to the unfriendly DIY support, but it's hard to pass on this hardware. Can anyone go through the components and tell me what they can and cannot do? And what components might be missing? I'm just fascinated by all this unexpected hardware. I'm dying to tinker with the components, but there really isnt a lot of info on this stuff.

Hardware:
CNAMPX-16x60
CNX-PAD8A
Remote STX-1550C w/ RF gateway 2-way
AV2 A/V Control Processor
ReQuest Arq Fusion Pro and Fusion Zone storage modules

Thanks!

You can go to the Crestron web site and download the owners manuals for the Crestron equipment listed. However, without the software and training or lots of time for trial and error, you won't get quick results.

Chip

Scraps? What did they take? You have an 8 zone distributed audio system with amplification (pad8 and ampx) A high end processor, color touchpanel and a VERY expensive music server in the ARQ.

Find a Crestron dealer that would be willing to work with you.

The other thing I would mention, and you probably know, is that if they took thing that were mounted to walls, like touchpanels and didn't specifically exclude them from your purchase agreement, you were ripped off.

Its actually the new owner that did not want the installed equipment (as it was an extra cost). So the original owner took everything out, but he moved into a place that has new equipment installed already. So then I came along...

It looks like all the equipment is audio only. Is it possible to do video and other home automation tasks with this equipment? Also, it seems that most of the equipment is several years old. How does it stand up to current stuff?

My big problem is that I am not ready to install things yet. I hope to move in a year or two, before installing anything. I also was not looking to install/spend anything this high-end. Since I am a computer guy, I was cool with the PC/software-based setup. That's why I'm wondering what do I really have here, and is it worth going down this path instead.

You have a very good distributed audio system and a whole house control (automation) procesor in the AV2. You don't have distributed video with the above equipment. Crestron is the top of the control/automation heap. However, it is expensive and you will have a tough time getting the tools necessary to make this work.

The equipment isn't the newest on the block as you know, but it is still very good. If a DIY solution is really what you are after, you may be better off trying to sell the Crestron equipment and use the proceeds to start down the path of CQC or Cinemar.

For the Crestron gurus - with the equipment that he has, is it RS232 or TCP controllable? If so, possibility of blending of the PC and the Crestron world. Is the control protocol available?

Boy, I wouldn't mind having your scraps!

The AV2 is serial controllable right out of the box. It is ethernet controllable (I'm pretty sure) with an enet card.

CJ

I guess I would give the same answer as always... which is why DIY with a product whose company doesn't support DIY and will disavow you if you have problems? I'm sure that the hardware is really nice and all, but even a free Ferrari would be somewhat of a problem if you couldn't take it to back the dealer if problems arise.

I guess I would give the same answer as always... which is why DIY with a product whose company doesn't support DIY and will disavow you if you have problems? I'm sure that the hardware is really nice and all, but even a free Ferrari would be somewhat of a problem if you couldn't take it to back the dealer if problems arise.
I think you just answered your own question. If somehow I managed to obtain a free Ferrari, I think I might be willing to jump through some hoops to keep and drive it :D.

It looks like all the equipment is audio only. Is it possible to do video and other home automation tasks with this equipment? Also, it seems that most of the equipment is several years old. How does it stand up to current stuff?

My big problem is that I am not ready to install things yet. I hope to move in a year or two, before installing anything. I also was not looking to install/spend anything this high-end. Since I am a computer guy, I was cool with the PC/software-based setup. That's why I'm wondering what do I really have here, and is it worth going down this path instead.

You almost sound bitter about these "spare parts" coming along. You have MANY thousands of dollars of really nice equipment in your possession, so at the very least you should be ecstatic - worst case is you can make some $$$ on ebay.

The equipment may be several years old, but other than the touchpanel, most of it is still current in Crestron's lineup. The AV2 is very nice and if it already has an ethernet port on the back, should be good to go for a while.

As others have said, without adding additional hardware, you can't do video distribution. Pretty much anything you can think of can be done with the Crestron equipment - all it takes is some imagination and some money to fill in the piece that you don't have.

The problem you face, if you can really call it a problem, is that you have to either pay someone to program the equipment for you or become buddies with a dealer (which will most likely mean buying at least some equipment) to get access to the programming tools. If you get access to the programming tools, even with a programming background you'll need to be prepared for a steep learning curve. Crestron's SIMPL is definitely an odd beast if you're used to C/C++/C#/etc. - it's not too bad once you get over the initial hump, but it will most likely be very different from anything you've used before. The other thing is that desiging the graphics and layout for a touchpanel isn't as easy as it might seem - it takes a lot of work to get everything working nicely and looking good.

Thanks for the great replies!
As Dean Roddey put it, I'm a Honda mechanic that suddenly got a bunch of Ferrari parts. I am very excited, but not being ready to install in my current house is anti-climatic. And being that I build computers and program software, gives me an itch to tinker with the hardware. BUT, I do understand that DIY with this equipment is not a good idea. And I'm definitely not disappointed. I know many people would love to be in this "predicament". I'm just trying to verify what I THINK I know.

Can anyone give me an idea of a reasonable price range for getting this equipment installed? Assume that speakers and structured wiring is in place. I know this may be a big range, but its better than being surprised later.

Thanks again everyone!

You almost sound bitter about these "spare parts" coming along. You have MANY thousands of dollars of really nice equipment in your possession, so at the very least you should be ecstatic - worst case is you can make some $$$ on ebay...

Nah- he'd probalby only get $100-$200 off of ebay for everything. However, since I empathize with his predicament, I'd offer him twice that! ;)

CJ

Nah- he'd probalby only get $100-$200 off of ebay for everything. However, since I empathize with his predicament, I'd offer him twice that! ;)

CJ

I'll counter offer at three times your prediction :D.

First of all it would be praaaaaay :). Second of all, you might want to exit your cave once in a while :). Crestron has had a drag and drop program for about 5 years now, first it was called Appllication Builder and now System Builder (D3 Pro is also drag and drop). Yes, SIMPL is of course much more powerful and still the programmers choice.

AMX was late to the party but now has Visual Architect for drag and drop programming.

did I give the impression that I like a drag n drop GUI for creating a control system OS? lol

Not sure I understand your response. I'd have to go back and read the original exchange but you said something like "I hope they never come out with a drag and drop program" and i pointed out that they have had one for years.

Anyhow, not important...we both agree that the drag and drop programming at least as currently implemented has major limitations.

QQQ, what's an example of a limitation of Crestron's drag and drop designer? Want to make sure the Cinemar isn't making the same "mistake" :)

well if you needed to build command strings in realtime, to me it is virtually impossible to do in Simpl, even if it is possible the amount of time it takes me to write a simpl+ module to handle anything I want to under the sun makes the symbol route simply ludicrous. Even in simpl+ you have limitations, you can't do math on ins and outs the module as they are considered objects and have no mathematical value to the module. THIS is very limiting in what I can do with input and output from a module. I could go on and on but this should give you some idea of the limitations of proprietary programming platforms.

let me add that you could write an entire AMX program in notepad if you so desired.

Not sure I understand your response. I'd have to go back and read the original exchange but you said something like "I hope they never come out with a drag and drop program" and i pointed out that they have had one for years.

Anyhow, not important...we both agree that the drag and drop programming at least as currently implemented has major limitations.

Im sure you're correct as I have seen the links for system builder on their site but I never bother with dumbed down versions of software.(no offense to anyone that uses it)

Try Extron MLC 104 IP Plus or MLC 226. Software if free on there site and anyone can call for support. No username or password needed and you don't have to be a dealer. AMX and Crestron customer support is for dealer only, and same goes for their software. Sometimes Support is more important then looks. It just has to work, be simple and reliable. Also both models you can log in remotely and use the webpage GUI to control the system.

O, with GC software that's used for Extron controllers, you don't have to program anything, it's configuring only. What does that mean? It means you don't have to be a programmer and don't need to learn new code.

You do realize that this thread was from 2006?

CJ